Carroll County, MD Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission, 18 Jul 2023

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From YouTube: Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission July 18, 2023

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/planning-zoning-commission/

A

Good morning we're going to get started.

A

uh Welcome to the planning and zoning commission meeting of july 18 2023.

A

um With that, can we establish a forum yeah, it's kirkner. I believe it's running a few minutes late.

B

Mr lester, here, mr hawk here, mr kane you're, mr smith,.

B

Mr robertson, here mr soyson here, commissioner gordon here secretary matthias here.

B

Okay, um mr chair, please let the record reflect that six members are present and we do have a form.

A

So stand for the pledge of allegiance.

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I pledge allegiance to do the flag of the united states of america to the republic.

D

For which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

A

All right next on the agenda, review and approval of the agenda.

A

Notes comments or changes to the no comments, I'll move. We approve the agenda as submitted.

A

A second second, I'm matt, thank you. Matt.

A

The minutes of june 20th uh meeting were posted any changes or amendments to the minutes.

A

Hearing none find good uh motion to approve the minutes. Second,.

D

All right, quick, all right, commission member reports.

A

um Janet's running a few minutes late so and I don't have anything.

A

Commissioner, gordon anything I'd have nothing. Thank you. Any other commission member reports.

E

Well, I will say sorry I missed our last meeting. I did listen in to the whole meeting or watched.

E

It later on, so our viewership went up. I watched it after so I didn't watch it during.

A

Cool, it's rather long, very good, all right! Thank you. Administrative reports.

A

Sitting in for chris yay right, so we thought we'd keep those interesting and change up the secretary.

F

Every month for y'all, I'm sorry chris was unable to be here and asked me to send in for him um the.

F

One and only administrative matter, we thought we would uh discuss with you is so last month.

F

When the plans for the projects were distributed to y'all, we did that electronically and then we.

F

Also had the option to pick up the paper copies, we thought we'd open it up for discussion and it's.

F

Very funny mr huff was just saying like it would be nice to eliminate all this paper and have this.

F

On my computer, so um that is the question to you: are you comfortable going to an all digital format.

F

um It could be a hybrid, but then we're in a scenario where we're you know we're.

F

Getting some plans and not others, so talk amongst yourselves any, and I believe that.

F

Laura checked into we do have a couple of tablets. Is that right, laura? Yes, I have two.

B

In the department that could be used- and I know some of you- also jobs- all right guys.

A

I know I use them. uh I spread them out on my family room floor.

A

And uh you know there's I I don't look at be honest. I don't look at every page. The.

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First page is important and then some of the detail on perhaps landscaping or things like.

A

That I'll I'll get into- uh and I know it would be a big help for my mail delivery person and.

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Not bring the brick and deliver it to the porch, because some of those are you know massive. So I.

A

Guess my only question would be the format of the document on a laptop. You know on a is it a.

A

Pdf, would it be, you know, so you can adobe what what how does it come over? How would it come over.

F

So so already established right now in development review to the development review website, which.

F

Is I think, what laura nevada had provided a link to you for last month, so we post that.

F

On the website, it is a pdf and you could look at the abbreviated version or the full version.

F

Is of course, larger file size, but we do use pdf format and you're able to zoom on those things.

F

It's something that we could give it a test run if you wanted to and and revisit it in a few months and see see what you think.

A

Yeah, I have no problem with the paper, but I I don't like the electronics, okay.

F

Any other opposed to.

G

Right so I mean, is it an issue you're looking for an all or nothing or would you prefer that we all.

G

Go to one format or because it sounds like as long as we have someone who prefers paper, we probably.

G

Ought to stay with paper, I'm fine with either. I don't have a strong okay.

G

So what are you looking for? A yes or no or.

F

So that was making yes or no. It gets a little complicated when we check how many people want.

F

Paper and who are mailing it to and who are not so well, can I I ask that you send it electronically.

G

And paper, let us try the electronic. While we also have the paper. Can we do both.

F

You know just just see how, let's let us see if we refer, you know how much uh fidelity we're.

G

Losing by looking at it over over our whatever mediums, okay yeah, so we will, we will redirect you.

F

To that development review website, where you can find the plans each month, they are posted there.

F

So we'll just make sure that everybody knows where to find that and can locate the plans.

F

Electronically, like that's a good idea, mr lester, thank you yeah that works. Okay, any other comments.

E

Welcome hi there are, we are in administrative reports.

A

We voted you a pay, raise oh good yeah and we're going to keep paper the the.

A

Plans that we receive um and we're also going to receive electronically to try to.

A

Migrate away from paper, but we'll see how it goes. Yes, got that: okay, perfect.

H

um So just I apologize um some mornings just go all right, but.

H

So the under commission member reports- I just wanted to note- I have nothing to report.

H

um But it looks like we'll be having some soon so looking forward to that administrative report.

H

um Miss matthias that the one item that we just discussed with the paper.

F

Electronic for the plan sets was the only item that I have today. Thank you.

H

Are there any extensions? There are extensions I might have those as well so.

F

We've had multiple extensions. We usually have maybe one or two, but I think, there's five in my.

F

Pile here today, um so first off living waters garden center is a s. 13007 was the file number.

F

This was the eighth extension and I will say they are inches from their finish line going through.

F

The legal document process, but they weren't quite at the point where they were going to make that.

F

The july 22nd expiration date, so they did extend that project. It's in commissioner district 3 and.

F

It was the eighth extension um carol station 3 is relatively newer s 20 0007. This was the.

F

First extension for this site plan, the same site is now the one that is working through.

F

um For the wendy's in eldersburg, so once they get that, then the old plan is extinguished, but they.

F

Wanted to hold on to that um approval, and that's commissioner district five.

F

The rest of these are subdivisions. We have rosie acres m09001. This is two lots of subdivision. It.

F

Is the 12th extension for this project and it's in commissioner district four.

F

And in there I was asked previously about reasoning. Sometimes they provide us. Why.

F

This one notes the current cost of building materials and availability, so they requested an extension, so that was approved.

F

The next one is walker, wood estates, two section 2 m09025. This is a one lot subdivision and it.

F

Is the 12th extension in commissioner district 2. this? They have also indicated that they're.

F

Looking to move forward at this time with recreation and getting that all wrapped up.

F

And lake forest estates section 2 p02052: this is the 15th extension for this. There are 27 lots in.

F

The subdivision- and it's in commissioner district four and you may all be familiar or not with this.

F

But there were some groundwater issues in the area that they have been continually working with the.

F

Health department to retest groundwater continuously over the course of time, so.

F

It's improving was the indication, so that's a good sign, and that is the extent of the extension.

F

Thank you. Thank you. um Are there any bca cases.

F

Yes, randall mitchell is going to present the bza cases.

I

Thank you for the introduction lauren, so I had two bza cases to.

I

um Present before the commission, the first is k-6455. This request is for a conditional use for a.

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Category of 10 cats, or over in multiple variances on a mount airy property off of ritchie drive.

I

The property is in the ag zone on a 1.84 acre lot. The planning staff finds this.

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Request for conditional use and variances is consistent with the 2014 master plan.

I

And would not have an adverse effect on the current use of the property and surrounding area.

I

And the second case was six four five: six, this request is for a conditional use for.

I

Vehicle sales, a lot in multiple variances on a cyclesville property on off of adam smith, street.

I

This property is owned, industrial light and is on a 1.03 acre lot.

I

Planning staff finds this request for a conditional use and variances is consistent.

I

With the 2018 freedom community comprehensive plan and would not have an adverse effect on.

I

Current use of the property, with some conditions outlined in the memo and a public hearing meeting.

I

Has been set tentatively for july 26th to hear both of these cases. That's all I had.

H

Any any other administrative matters, okay, all right! Thank you.

H

Okay, next on the agenda is item eight, the concept site plan, I believe kirsten- is going to present.

H

H

Good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, planning, commission and everybody.

J

Let me get my wow, that's a lot of powerpoints hold on my powerpoint pulled up here.

K

Okay, all right good morning, I am kirsten marple with carroll county's development review.

J

Here with you with the simple the concepts I plan for westminster, solar file, number s210019.

J

If I could, if you could introduce yourselves as well good morning, kelly schaefer miller, 73 east.

L

Main street westminster maryland 21157, I'm here this morning on behalf of the.

L

Applicant and I have with me, annie wagner who's a representative from the solar company as well.

M

Good morning, thank you. The address is 2003 western avenue, suite 225 seattle, washington thanks.

M

Thank you, kellyanne, annie, okay, so we are here before you today, with a concept site plan.

J

This is for the westminster solar project, just north of the city of westminster, outside of the.

J

City of westminster, which is why we are presenting it to you in the county here, it is not being annex.

J

It is in the county and will remain in the county. This is a concept site development plan. It might.

J

Look a little bit familiar. This was before the planning commission almost exactly a year ago.

J

For a special report- and we will get to that in a minute that was about setbacks,.

J

And we'll go through the history of the property, but first I want to introduce you to where it is.

J

If you don't remember it or if this is the first time you're seeing it so westminster, solar is.

J

On a property, like I said just outside the city limits, you can see it highlighted in green up here.

J

The purple indicates that it's industrial zoning industrial light- in fact the yellow over here- is.

J

Residential and then the areas that are not colored in are within city limits, largely.

J

Developed as a business park, this is the air park business park and additional business park.

J

To the north as well so the site here, you've, probably driven past it if you've ever headed.

J

Up that way and you've seen it on the right, it's right at the corner of old bachmann valley, road.

J

There's currently, nothing really on it. There's a billboard. It's an open field, there's some trees.

J

You can see the southwestern corner of the property. The proposal for this property is to.

J

Develop it as a solar panel field, a solar panel field or a solar energy generation generating.

J

System is a principal use in this zoning district. This is industrially zoned. This is.

J

Not agriculturally zoned, although it's currently a field and next to a farm field, as you can see,.

J

From this image, so this use as a solar field is a principal permitted use in the zoning district.

J

And that is not impacted by anything else going on in the code right now, okay, so this is just a.

J

Google image from the side of the road you've like I mentioned you might have seen this coming down.

J

From north down to westminster off of 97., the properties on the left hand, side on this image.

J

As you can see, there's the billboard there, that's really the only thing on the property.

J

It's previously been used as farm fields. As I recall now. I think it's just a field right now.

J

And these are just some images from old, bachmann valley road. You can see the corner where it meets.

J

97 here on the top left and then the rest of it is off of old, bachmann valley, road, there's.

J

An existing paved entrance right about here, which is what this image is, which will be the.

J

Entrance that they are using, so it's not going to be a new entrance on to old, bachmann valley, road.

J

If you're familiar with old bachmann valley, road 2, it closes just a short distance in they've. Put a.

J

Barrier up there, so the road is not a through road anymore, so this entrance is existing and.

J

It's prior to that closure so now that we're kind of familiar with the property.

J

I wanted to introduce you to the proposal so, like I mentioned, this is a solar panel field.

J

Which is again a permitted use in this district.

J

They're proposing the site to be developed with the solar panels in the center.

J

Closely with the fence surrounding it and then outside of that fence also, there will.

J

Be landscaping so it'll be solar panels, fence and landscaping. The landscaping was discussed in our.

J

Previous meeting for this project, the special report we had about a year ago, landscaping is.

J

Not required by code for a industrially zone solar generating facility. However, if the developer wants.

J

To change the setbacks, the code allows a provision where they can change the setbacks and reduce them.

J

Planning, commissioner, can approve to reduce them if landscaping is provided.

J

So this is what we talked about last year for this project. Landscaping was provided, the setbacks were.

J

Proposed to be reduced by 50 percent, which is allowed per code. If the planning commission.

J

Approves it and it was presented to the planning commission last year and that was approved.

J

So the setbacks from all four property lines here were reduced by 50 percent from 200 feet to 100 on.

J

The west, where we saw there, was residential zoning in a house and from the other districts which.

J

Are industrially zoned in the city and then also industrially zoned and residential over here were.

J

Reduced as well by 50 percent, so that was approved previously and that's what this plan shows.

J

The landscaping that was provided is a 15-foot buffer, a 15-foot, deep landscaping area.

J

Let's move ahead a little bit and we'll talk about that? Okay, so this is a kind of.

J

A schematic of what the landscaping is proposed to look like, and we have some renderings too.

J

That I'll show you that's pretty exciting, so the fence line on the inside again solar panels here.

J

Landscaping on the outside, it's a mix of shrubs and evergreen trees, as well as.

J

Scattered deciduous trees as well, some trees that will lose their leaves, but primarily evergreens.

J

So this is a view shed rendering I'm going to show you a few pictures here of what that landscaping.

J

Looks like from the outside again, this was all already approved. This was approved in conjunction.

J

With the setback reductions, this is just for the sake of example, and for the public benefit. Okay,.

J

So this is just a view shed showing where these pictures these renderings are based off of.

J

So this is that billboard again- and you can see this is a rendering. So it looks a little funny.

J

Everything looks the same, but these are the the deciduous trees and then you would also.

J

Have the evergreens here a little lower down? I don't even know that you can see the fence here.

J

This is a rendering of what it would look like after the trees have grown so obviously, trees.

J

You get them they're, they're small you're, not going to transport a tree. That's I don't know.

J

30 40 feet tall, so this is a future rendering of what it would look like in the future and.

J

There's a few others too. That show mostly the same thing and then the view from if.

J

You're coming up route 97 going north on the right. This is where the solar panel field is.

J

You can see a little cutaway here where you can see the fence in the panels. That's the area where.

J

The interconnective interconnection will happen with the bge power lines.

J

It's back to the site plan. We have the black and white say plan, which is what you were sent.

J

But we also received the color rendering, and I think I want to talk about that. Instead, it's a.

J

Little bit easier to see so, as I mentioned, the solar panels in the middle, a fence outside of.

J

That and then the landscaping you can also see here- forest conservation, easement area.

J

On the northeast side, this is between the nearest residential structure and the site and helps.

J

Provide not only screening over time, but also it achieves their force conservation requirements.

J

And then these symbols you're, seeing here are storm water management features.

J

So they'll have what the water will channel off or flow off and then flow to these swales.

J

These bios whales that will help absorb the water and slow the water there's also- and you can't see.

J

Them in these pictures, but next to those swales underground, there's underground storage facilities.

J

For the storm water, if it overflows to help control quantity for higher activity, storms higher.

J

Water level, storms, so concept or yes, concept, storm water management has been approved. For that.

J

Forest conservation requirements have also been approved for that.

J

We also had to work with the state highway administration for this project. As you can see,.

J

That the pink pink outline here is the property boundaries, and you can see it expands right to.

J

The middle of route 97, as you might be aware, if you travel that way, they've been expanding route.

J

97 to the north of this site, and it will work its way down eventually over time, don't have.

J

A timetable for that yet, but this design was designed to accommodate that future expansion.

J

This has been reviewed by sha quite a few times, and things are in place to accommodate for that.

J

Grading office sediment control offices have approved the project.

J

Water resource management to prove the project too, there's no streams. No floodplains floodplain had.

J

No requirements, fire protection has also looked at the site. The only request was that there was.

J

Previously, a driveway entrance in this location, they did not want them using both, so the entrances.

J

Are consolidated to this one, which will be easier to access and maneuver in for emergency apparatus,.

J

Carroll county airport 2, if you're familiar with the site, is right across the street. They.

J

Looked at this plan as well, they reviewed it for faa requirements and there are no issues here.

J

For solar panels, in fact, if you're familiar with the area, there's solar.

J

Panels even closer to the airport site that have been there for a long.

J

Time so this is not going to be an issue for airplanes coming and going from the airport.

J

And the only other thing I wanted to note here are actually a couple of things so on the plans.

J

That you have, it has a detail for a chain link fence. I've been in communication with developers.

J

And they were nice enough to send me these pictures. They would like to change the chain.

J

Link fence to a more agricultural style fence you can see in the top left here wooden posts.

J

It looks like with a square style of metal fencing across them, as opposed to chain link.

J

Additionally, it doesn't really say it on the plans, but they also wanted to express.

J

That, beneath the solar panels, they are putting a pollinator friendly habitat down there, as opposed.

J

To just grass it'll be something that you know provides flowers for pollinators locally and also.

J

Complies with storm water management requirements, so it will utilize water and help reduce runoff.

J

And I think in my report I might have mentioned the solar panels were not.

J

Fixed they are, they are fast, so they're still fixed. Okay,.

J

I started out a little bit different, so the solar panels are fixed and here is an example.

J

Of what that would look like- and these are stationary you're going to face one direction.

J

I have two renderings here that look pretty similar. If you look at the bottom left, where.

J

The entrance is you'll see it changes a little bit, so this is based off of the.

J

Current plan that we have the copy that you have and that we've reviewed the developer.

J

Brought to my attention that their intention is to adjust that a little bit. So if I flip.

J

To the next page, you'll see that change a little bit and what happened there is that.

J

The interconnectivity shifted to be next to the driveway instead of being over towards route 97.

J

Okay, so it used to connect here and there was a gap in the landscaping right at the corner.

J

And they've worked with bg and e to change that, so it's next to the driveway. Instead, that way.

J

They have one gap here and otherwise the landscaping will be continuous.

J

It's a very small change. It won't impact our plan reviews, but I wanted.

J

To bring it up to you, as that is a change in the landscaping buffer.

J

It changes it, so it's more continuous. If anything, it's probably an improvement.

J

That's a very small change, so I think that is all that I have again. This is just a concept.

J

Review, that's the second time you're, seeing it only because we had special report originally.

J

That approved the setback, reductions and the inclusion of the landscaping we're just here.

J

For concept at this point, we encourage any discussion and questions and I also wanted to.

J

Mention that if you've decided to force the chair, that is something you can do here too. So when the.

J

Final comes in for final approval. We would just work directly with the chair for that approval.

H

um Miss miller, you have anything thank you good morning, miss kirkner and the entire commission.

L

um Really just here to answer any questions that you might have, it has been a year and.

L

I know there's been some membership change to this commission, since we were last here.

L

um So annie is prepared to share with you a little bit just about community solar in general. This is.

L

A community solar project, I really appreciate kirsten's staff report and all of the visuals.

L

That she provided just briefly, I did want to touch on a few specific items. The interconnectivity of.

L

Those polls was a result of bg e comments. They felt that this was a safer connected point. If.

L

You will, and so that's why that shifted there that you saw kirsten, did point out that agricultural.

L

Style fence which, as she stated, will be in between the panels and the landscaping. So as you could see,.

L

From those renderings once that landscaping has matured, you may or may not be able to see what.

L

Any kind of fence looks like at all anyhow, but that would be the proposal for the agricultural.

L

Style fence this is the site, is zoned i1, as you all are familiar with, and so, although solar use.

L

On i1 has specific setback requirements. I think it is worth noting that other i1 uses have much.

L

Lesser setback requirements, and so I think this site really provides a nice transition.

L

In intensity of use, if you will, from the southern property to the more industrial heavy properties.

L

Or I shouldn't say, industrial heavy because that's a term of art but more heavily used.

L

Industrial properties to the north of this solar is incredibly limited in its use, characteristics.

L

There's really no traffic parking associated with it so, like I said annie's here, just to share a.

L

Little bit about community solar- and we are here- we also have representatives from kimberly horn.

L

The engineering group who prepared the site plan in case there are any specific questions.

L

That anyone might have about the plans great. Thank you thanks kelly. I would just like to echo.

M

Kelly's appreciation for you all being here this morning to discuss our project. We look forward to.

M

Answering any questions that you might have, but to provide a little bit of context about one energy.

M

We've been a solar developer since 2009, and a lot of our work has been here in the state of.

M

Maryland we have completed over 160 megawatts of solar projects, nine of which are community.

M

Solar projects just like westminster, solar, uh the maryland community, solar energy, generating systems.

M

Program is a unique opportunity for residents businesses non-profits to choose to subscribe.

M

To the solar project to see a 10 percent, roughly a 10 percent discount on their electric bill.

M

So, what's great about this program, is it provides individuals who rent their homes, businesses, who.

M

Don't own the building that they're operating in even if you can put solar on your roof and.

M

Don't want to you can choose to subscribe to this, to see the financial savings of owning.

M

Your own solar project, it also provides larger environmental benefits to the community, so this.

M

Project is one and a half megawatts in size that would power roughly 150 to 200 maryland houses.

M

Which is equivalent to avoiding over a thousand tons of carbon dioxide emissions every year.

M

Some additional unique benefits that this project will provide, as kirsten had mentioned,.

M

Is the pollinator habitat that will be seated underneath the panel array area? This pollinator.

M

Habitat will include a seed mix with over 30 varieties of flowers and grasses, including.

M

Flowers like purple, coneflower, black-eyed, susan and new england asters. All of those are very.

M

Beautiful flowers and native bees and butterflies really enjoy them as well. This critical pollinator.

M

Habitat helps to support agricultural operations that rely on pollination for fruit production.

M

And in addition to the pollinator habitat, the type c landscape buffer that we have proposed.

M

Will provide additional trees shrubs, as kirsten had provided an overview of for the project and.

M

For the community, the vegetative screening is anticipating to plant around 50 major.

M

Deciduous trees around 60 evergreen trees and over a hundred shrubs as part of the vegetative screen.

M

So all of this vegetation provides great habitat for native insects as well as storm.

M

Water benefits soil stabilization and it helps to make sure that the soil can rest similar to.

M

The maryland conservation program, which enrolls farmland for soil to replenish nutrient-rich soil.

M

So similar to that, it helps the property rest and can be restored for any uses in the future.

M

um Thank you for hearing our project and look forward to discussing it. Thank you.

H

D

A couple: okay, um forgive me if this would be redundant. This is my second time.

D

At a meeting of this commission- and I do have a couple questions- um it's a one one and a.

D

Half megawatts is that right, that's the minimum, that's feasible for a community solar. So is it a.

D

Half a megawatt is that feasible for your company. Could you give me a little insight on that? Please.

M

um Yeah, I don't think we've relatively small area. That's what what I'm wondering about yeah yeah.

M

These projects are very small um as a company, we don't typically do projects smaller uh than one.

M

Megawatt in size, but the maryland community solar market allows for projects up to five megawatts.

M

In size and um how tall is the agricultural fencing that you're going to be putting in.

D

How tall is it yeah, so it should be around six to eight feet in height and that's just.

M

For security purposes and safety purposes, that should be how tall around six to eight feet. Okay,.

D

um See I had another oh who's responsible for the main maintenance of the trees, the shrubs.

D

uh The the underlying habitat and vegetation who's responsible for that and for how long.

M

Definitely uh so we would contract with a local vegetation management company. What's.

M

Great about the native pollinator habitat is once it's established. It's relatively.

M

Low maintenance, but to help it establish in the beginning, we would perform routine.

M

Mowings of the vegetation underneath the panels the mowings would occur roughly once.

M

A quarter for the first few years, and once it's established, it would be more around once a year.

D

So the mowing would be once a year, and it would be probably after august after the I'm going by the.

D

Prep program they allow mowing once a year, it's usually after august or around august, is that is.

D

That the way this works yeah, I think, that's right depending on. If there are any weeds on site, they.

M

Would be mowing it prior to plants going to seed once the native plants have established butter.

M

It would be more so mowing after they would go to seed. They usually do that because of the.

D

Some of the wildlife habitat: that's why I was asking about that. Actually, wildlife, habitat.

D

I'm talking about the birds and different things like that. Prep program allows you to know after.

D

The nesting seasons, and all that is that does that work is that the same rules and regulations here.

D

Yeah, absolutely if the project doesn't need to be mowed if the vegetation's maintained well and the.

M

Height is reasonable. There wouldn't be a need to mow the site so and then kirsten does the.

D

County that oversee the mowing, the vegetation to make sure that's done in a proper fashion.

D

Or not internally, within the site, so once the site has been established in all of the storm water.

J

Management features, including the material beneath the solar panels. The flowers are established and.

J

Doing well, first to versus you know not really doing too great. We can't let it go if it's.

J

Going to be a mud pit right, so we would do regular inspections in regard to the stormwater management.

J

Aspect of that material beneath the solar panels, once that's established and everything's good, I.

J

Think that generally- and I not entirely sure if they have a long-term schedule of inspections. But.

J

Generally, if there was an issue, somebody can call and submit a complaint about there being.

J

An issue just like with pretty much everything else after we have acknowledged that everything.

J

Is established and going well, so it would be probably after the point where they're only.

J

Cutting it once a year that we would stop looking at it. I'm a johnson grass hater right and I see.

D

Many of these sites that are required to be mowed once a year, it's too doggone late by the time.

D

It's mode so then the johnson grass goes to the neighbor and there's neighboring farms in the area.

D

Right across the road, as a matter of fact, yes and this, this site had previously had johnson.

J

Grass on it and had been called out to get that removed, so my understanding, that's under control.

J

Right now and I'm sure they'll be checking for that before they establish anything and again.

J

Once the once the vegetation is established, it should be established to the point where it's.

J

Not allowing much competition of anything coming in there so but again, if there's ever any issues.

J

With that, complaints can always be called in zoning office is a good place to start and.

J

Probably, where you'll stay, if there's any concerns or questions, and it will get to the right people.

J

To tackle whatever the issue is over the years, thank you, yeah and just one note on the johnson.

M

Grass, we are working with a local expert to help us handle the johnson grass on site with mowings.

M

And spot treatments to hopefully make a smooth transition to the pollinator habitat. So thank you.

H

H

um Do we have any public that wishes to speak on this.

H

H

Speak clearly into the microphone as we are being recorded, john frock yeah, I own the.

N

Farm across from this I've called in about the johnson grass, I guess when they first.

N

Took over and they stopped planting any crops and it's completely covered with jonathan grass.

N

And even just mowing it you know like ralph's and matt. No, it just comes to see shorter. You.

N

Know when you mow it, it's just stunts it a little, but it's still and we're getting it in our fields.

N

I mean weekly, maintain it and take care of it, but we would make sure it's uh I'd like to make sure.

N

It's taken care of because I'm not sure that's not what's going to choke out the wildflowers. You know.

N

Instead of them just choking out the johnson grass, because it's it's tough stuff.

N

If they don't kill it all before they start, it's.

N

Something else so all right, that's all thank you for bringing it up, though, or else thank you.

H

Any other comments miss kirkner. I would just say one additional thing. If I will, um this plan has.

L

Been in the works for a few years now we're pretty confident in the design that you're seeing here, we.

L

Don't anticipate any significant changes to this design, so we, I would echo what kirsten said and we.

L

Would request that you delegate authority to the chair for final approval if there is a substantial.

L

Change we'll come back, but if not, I think what you're seeing here is what will be the final plan.

H

Okay, thank you um all right, so it is a concept planned, but um if you all wish you can consider.

H

Delegating approval of the final side plan to the chair, yeah, okay, I'll make a motion.

A

That we approve and delegate uh approval to uh the chair I'll second, that.

H

Okay, we have a motion and a second to delegate approval of the final site plan to the chair.

H

All in favor aye any opposed. Okay, you have your.

J

Motion approved, so thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Everybody.

J

O

Yeah they should be here, but okay, next on the agenda is yeah. The final site plan for.

H

S220001 hummingbird chateau amy will be presenting good morning good morning.

P

For the record clark schaefer uh on behalf of the owner and.

P

Applicant mike housley, who is here with me today,.

Q

Good morning again my name is amy barcroft, I'm here with the.

Q

Bureau of development review, along with the developer and his council, we're here for us.

Q

22001, which is hummingbird chateau, this is a request for the approval of the final.

Q

Site plan, in accordance with chapter 155 this morning, this project is located at.

Q

1920 bachmann valley road in manchester- and this is commissioner district, one.

Q

This property is located uh east of the town of manchester.

Q

Most of the property is zoned agricultural, with a small section, zoned conservation.

Q

There is a two-story farmhouse and an existing barn on the site and we are.

Q

Here today to talk about their conversion of the property into a country in a wedding venue.

Q

This property is surrounded by farm fields and agricultural sites, and it.

Q

Is served by private well and septic. There are several environmental features on the.

Q

Property, including some wetlands and a forested water protection easement.

Q

Which has already been recorded and not affected by the development of this project.

Q

On october, 27 2021, the board of zoning appeals, approved this request for a conditional use for.

Q

The country and in wedding facility on the subject, property, with one condition that live music, must.

Q

Cease after 10 pm when the events are held and a note to that effect has been added to the plan.

Q

This project came before you in march 21st 2023, where you reviewed the concept site plan.

Q

You can see in the photos the existing historic barn which the owner has been working to refurbish.

Q

You can see in the bottom pictures the farmhouse in the distance which will be used for the country.

Q

In component and you can see the current uh gravel driveway, which accesses bachmann valley, road.

Q

The plan proposes that the barn host indoor events for up to a hundred people and that.

Q

Barn is approximately six thousand square feet. The plan proposes the addition of an attached patio.

Q

And the addition of parking areas, 68 new parking spaces are proposed, including six compliant.

Q

Handicap spaces the parking was tabulated for one space per three persons based on the.

Q

Venue capacity of a hundred people, as well as one space for the guest room, as required by the code.

Q

The driveway apron is proposed to have a paved entrance to bachmann valley, road.

Q

And it would be relocated 132 feet to the west, because there were some concerns for the current.

Q

Site distance on bachmann valley, road, so it's being relocated with the approval of state highway.

Q

There are three parking areas proposed with 20-foot wide access drives, connecting them a.

Q

Grid like paver, is being used as reinforced turf for the parking.

Q

Areas and the access drives between them will be gravel for increased durability.

Q

Let me skip back for a second lighting is proposed to be a few building.

Q

Mounted lights around the entranceways. Excuse me: the access doors of the barn.

Q

And some pole mounted solar powered lighting, which will be antique style kind of like a wrought iron.

Q

Look to go with the historic look of the property will be illuminating. The parking and walkways.

Q

No signage or freestanding signs are proposed for this venue at the entrance or other anywhere else.

Q

On the property, the landscape plan proposes the addition of screening along the front property.

Q

Line that borders bachmann valley, road and that will be deciduous trees and shrubs.

Q

On this slide, you can see. A part of the plan is that the adjacent property owner has provided.

Q

Written permission to utilize the pond on his property, with the construction of an.

Q

Access drive suitable for emergency vehicles that will serve as the fire protection for.

Q

The venue this is the alternative to using an automated sprinkler system in the historic barn.

Q

Which became difficult due to the availability of the public water connection from manchester.

Q

So this will require a fire protection access, easement.

Q

To be recorded with the plan and emergency services has approved for this final plan,.

Q

Oops, excuse me this project is exempt from floodplain management. It is out of the.

Q

Jurisdiction of the bureau of utilities, a forest conservation variance was approved for removing.

Q

A few specimen trees needed for the installation of the septic system and all other forests on the.

Q

Property will be retained in a force conservation easement to be recorded with this plan.

Q

Water resource management has approved the plan and final storm. Water management has.

Q

Been granted, grading has approved this plan and a grading permit is required before any work begins.

Q

And again, state highway and our engineering review here at the county have approved the entrance relocation and improvements.

Q

For that fire protection access at the pond on the adjoining property.

Q

The health department's soil conservation and site compliance have all approved the final plan.

Q

So, pursuant to chapter 155, county staff is now recommending approval of this final site plan.

Q

Subject to these following conditions that the developer enters into a public.

Q

Works agreement with carroll county that guarantees the completion of improvements.

Q

That a storm water, easement maintenance agreement be granted to the commissioners.

Q

That a fire protection easement be granted to the commissioners.

Q

Simultaneously with the public works agreement and that a forest.

Q

Conservation easement also be granted to the carroll county commissioners.

Q

Again, there are some photos of the property, as it looks today.

Q

And if you have any questions, we'd be happy to answer those about the wedding venue.

H

Thanks, mr schaefer, uh thank you uh we're we're. We agree to the conditions of approval and are.

P

Here to answer any questions you may have it's been a fairly long road, this this of.

P

Course they all are, aren't they um the long and winding road. This bca was.

P

Was approved on november, 2nd 2021.? um No, not that that's unusual, but I'm just saying it's.

P

Been a long road, and here we are and uh appreciate your attention to the matter.

H

H

Okay, um and would you like to say anything.

P

Well, I I almost never don't say anything so I'll yeah, so you know yes,.

P

Here we have something: that's not unfamiliar to you or carroll county, because it has become a big.

P

Use that apparently, we are well situated for we're in the metropolitan area, but we have this rural.

P

Charm, that is just heavily desirable for these events and you can get to them within 40 minutes.

P

And we, our firm, has a lot of experience with this. As you know, we've taken a lot of them.

P

Through and one thing that that we're learning from the people that do these is that it is that.

P

Rural charm, and so there's this uh clash between carroll county's. You know environmental and and.

P

Site regulations which are like pave, pave, pave and and and people are saying to me, the people.

P

That come out here. They don't want all this paving. They want to be walking over grass when.

P

They go to places, so what I'm getting to here is that this site really fits neatly, uh and I guess.

P

A little bit of luck, but a little bit of smart on mike's part. um This barn is just spectacular.

P

uh Historic lots of work, but spectacular, and the only reason it can be used is because he he's got.

P

A friendly neighbor he's made friends with the farmer who is letting him use the pond for the.

P

For the fire protection, otherwise you have you go sorry, sprinkle sprinkler, the building he's.

P

Like can't use the barn got to put a tent up, um so this really fits well, um and I don't know if.

P

You remember the ones that were here that we showed what he did to the house. It was. It was.

P

Really spectacular uh the work in the house, so uh we come here with all the approvals and we ask you.

P

To approve the final site plan so that he can move forward with his public works agreement and.

P

In the near future, hopefully start hosting the the events. The one thing I'd like to ask is.

E

The where you had the fire the driveway going in it would also have like a pipe that they can.

E

Just hook up to and suck out or will they have to throw into the pond just saying that because it's.

E

Normally a benefit for all the neighbors within such a distance for their insurance because of.

E

Having the fire protection, do you know the answer that mike nothing was mentioned about a pipe? They.

R

Did mention that their hose was a certain length that they had to drop, so they had to be so close.

R

To it so they went out there and met and it filled all the requirements that they had so.

E

So it might be a benefit for the neighbors. I know the county had some money from the fire.

E

Departments and they put in a retention tank on my farm and it at least my insurance quite a bit.

R

So good to know: okay, any other comments.

H

You guys are quiet today.

H

um What comment public comment? Yes, so is there any public that would like to speak on this.

H

um You don't see any so whoever wanted to make information.

H

Okay, subject to the conditions: okay,.

A

A second okay: we have a ocean in a second all in favor.

M

Aye any opposed okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Good luck. Thank you.

H

G

While we're fumbling through papers, jim I've got a question. Yes, sir all right, so we approve.

G

Venues like the one we just did, um you know we had a long, a lengthy discussion.

G

Last week or the last time we met here about noise from a church.

G

If someone continually violates the noise provisions, what is the county's recourse for you.

G

Know in in try I'm just thinking through and we did receive an email about someone concerned about.

G

The noise from that prod, you know so, let's not act like we didn't hear anything that everything.

G

Was positive, we did get a negative comment on that venue, so you know what is the county's.

G

Recourse when someone continually violates the you know it's supposed to be off at 10 pm. What's.

G

The county's recourse, so there are two um things the county can do. One is the noise ordinance where.

O

The sheriff's office can go out and if it can is a continuous problem, um the sheriff's office.

O

Can find them and issue citations to the property owner for being too loud or going um further than.

O

10 p.m. um Also, since this was a bca approval and the one of the conditions was uh the 10 pm cutoff.

O

um Zoning can enforce the that, so if this becomes a persistent problem, zoning can then go.

O

um Enforce this, which could be citations or basically a court order, saying you need to stop.

O

By 10 or you're going to be held until the court and shut down. Okay, that's what I wanted! That's.

G

What I wanted to do, thank you. Okay, it's a good point, because a lot of uh venues, wedding venues.

A

Receptions, the uh the folks that are hosting are offered an opportunity to extend for an hour.

A

Sure all that kind of thing, so, oh you know that's good play one more song. You know yeah.

A

Right, we've all been there all right. Thank you, yeah. The share goes out to determine.

O

How does he do that? Is it by decibel level it used to be by decibel level, but that.

O

um Was practically unworkable due to the meters, um they were too unreliable and too.

O

Expensive and he had to update them quite frequently so now um the county just uses a.

O

Sort of unreasonably loud standard, so it's sort of like you know it when you see it.

O

um Type of uh thing that the sheriff's office would do so, it's sort of a it's uh individualized.

O

Situation case by case basis, well one of the things that I'm wondering is and and we'll.

G

We'll move on and off because I'm out of order- and I know and I'll apologize. But you know in thinking.

G

Through this and again but buckman valley is a beautiful. I've run down that road they're having.

G

In the last five six years, as you can tell by my appearance, but um that's a beautiful road.

G

um And those people bought those homes there. You know, because of that again we were we're selling.

G

To tranquil agrarian um scenic vistas here um and so preserving that's important to all of us.

G

um So you know, one of the things that that I have concerns about is within our ordinance.

G

You know we we're mainly relying on landscaping and and things that are visual. You know.

G

In my prior life I was told landscaping did not abate noise worth a darn. It basically.

G

Takes hardscape it takes, you know dirt concrete brick. I mean something an obstacle. Otherwise, the.

G

Noise is just going to go through it, and so we don't require berms around these venues.

G

And- and I don't think any of us because of the agrarian nature of where we live- want to see some.

G

Palisade or bull work around a property, that's not what we want either, but requiring these.

G

People not just to have the landscaping, but also to have berms that that can help abate. The noise.

G

I think that's, maybe something we want to look at look at otherwise we're just going to have.

G

More and more people, [music] um I'm not sure the noise. I I'm not sure how compatible all this is.

G

um With the people who have bought in there and live live there and you know have made.

G

Investments and want that quiet lifestyle we're doing a disservice to the community.

G

If we don't look into requiring some sort of berm around some of these properties and so.

G

That's just a suggestion that we consider on down the road when we look at these plans. Let's, let's.

G

Maybe look into requiring some berms around these venues, particularly where the noise is.

H

That something we can do- jim, oh, absolutely, okay, okay, all right! Well! Moving on! I'm.

G

Sorry we are moving on so item. 10 is recess. Let's take um 10 minutes, okay,.

H

All right, we will resume with the item. 11 final subdivision plan for fx 20006, shamrock states.

S

Good morning, good morning, david good morning, david b craft with the bureau.

S

Of development review, as mentioned we're moving on to the next project on the agenda, which is shamrock estates file, number fx20006.

S

With me are a few representatives of that project, who I will let introduce themselves.

L

Good morning, kelly, schaefer miller, 73 east.

L

Smith, 7. I'm here today on behalf of the applicant, and I also have mr john sarah.

L

With me, a representative from patapsco91 llc, and we also have linda alexander in.

L

The back from clsi to answer any technical questions and shane mcquay, also from patapsco91.

T

Thank you. Thank you. So what this project is proposing is a six slot residential.

S

Subdivision and it is before the planning zoning commission as a final subdivision plan,.

S

uh So with that, we are looking for approval of the final plan of subdivision pursuant to.

S

Chapter 155 and conditional approval of the final subdivision plan in conjunction with chapter 156,.

S

And I'll get into that as we move through this project, but I will mention this is more or less.

S

um I'll I'll say abnormal, so this is before the planning zoning commission due to concurrency.

S

Management as this was before the planning zoning commission last year back around mid.

S

To 2022, so this is more or less a formality in front of the planning zoning commission to.

S

Retest those facilities that did not get are deemed adequate during the preliminary plan.

S

Stage in fact, there's a provision in our code that states final plans automatically go to the.

S

Chair, I believe this is one of those instances where even the commission members were talking.

S

About going to the chair, but due to the way the code is written, this had to come back before the.

S

Full planning zoning commission for the retest of that facility that was not deemed adequate.

S

So for those who are unfamiliar, who may not have been on the commission uh back when this was.

S

Presented as a preliminary plan, this is off of gamber road. This is old, gamber road here.

S

And the site itself is outlined with the the blue site label there. So the project is more.

S

Or less between deer park, road and hughes road and is in commissioner district number two.

S

So the property itself is comprised of about 10 acres and is zoned r, 40 000., the property.

S

Previously contained a residential dwelling as well as a private driveway, as you can see,.

S

The dwelling has since been removed, and the driveway, I believe, is all that remains here.

S

The the properties that surround the subject property are either zoned are 40 000 or our.

S

Zone conservation and they contain single family dwellings, as you can see from this aerial shot.

S

The property is outside the designated growth area, the priority funding area.

S

As well as water and sewer service areas, the subject, property and all adjoining.

S

Properties are currently served by public by private water, foreign.

S

Systems- this is my monday back, so I apologize for all of that.

S

um So what is being proposed is again to subdivide the property into six residential.

S

Sites uh the locks themselves will range in size from 1.41 acres to 1.82 acres with.

S

The property being zoomed are 40 000. These lot sizes are within compliance of designing code.

S

Access to the lights are to be served by two used in common driveways, one of which.

S

Is currently existing on the north side of the the property, it is four leaf drive and this will.

S

Serve these three lots that are proposed up here and then there is a second use, incoming driveway.

S

Proposed that will come off of old gamer road here. That will serve three lots in this area. Here.

S

So, although the property does have frontage onto old, gamber road, as well as gamber road.

S

Direct access onto gambler road is prohibited and is to be enforced by the county as well.

S

As state highway administration uh in the state highway administration has approved the entrance.

S

Location with specific details included on the final plan, as well as the record plan.

S

So all lots are to be served by private, well and septic systems. The project has received final plan.

S

Approval from the carroll county, health department and again all locks are within compliance of the.

S

Zoning ordinance, so this project was submitted to the county in april 22nd 2019 and was subject.

S

To citizen involvement at the technical review committee meeting during that meeting, there were.

S

No citizens that spoke and we have not received any written's correspondence. The project was then.

S

Presented to the planning zoning commission as a constant plan july 21st 2020 again, there were no.

S

Assistance and attendance at that meeting and more recently the project was presented to the.

S

Planning zoning commission as a preliminary plan april 19 2022, the commission at the time decided.

S

To approve the preliminary plan and again there were no citizens at that meeting that were able.

S

To speak, I will mention, since this report has been written, I have received a few phone calls.

S

From some neighboring properties, who did have some concerns of traffic that this would create.

S

On old gamber road, as well as the congestion of houses on this property, so I'm going to go back.

S

I guess I got to go back one more so, as you can see old gamble road, it ties into gamber road and.

S

Loops up to serve those houses and then it ties back into gamber road. So a lot of the.

S

Comments I received was that there's not a lot of through traffic on this road, except for those.

S

People that live off the road and have to use it to access the property and the addition of these.

S

Six houses would cause additional congestion of traffic for those uh current residents.

S

So the property or the project itself is exempt from the requirements of floodplain management and.

S

Water resource management landscaping has granted preliminary and final approval with an approval of.

S

A variance requesting relief, which was discussed at the previous meeting and to give an idea of.

S

What that was the code stated that a dirt berm had to be run along route 91 and within that variance.

S

It was deemed that the landscaping that exists on the property, as well as supplemental landscaping.

S

That is to be planted would be sufficient for the needs of the use of the property.

S

Forest conservation has granted approval of the project with the variance being approved.

S

For the removal of certain specimen trees on site, grading and sediment control has.

S

Granted approval of the final plan- storm water management, has granted final approval of the.

S

Project and drywalls and a wide shoulder along the driveways, are proposed and will address.

S

Those requirements of stormwater management there will be two publicly owned. Stormwater.

S

Management quantity control facilities that will be on the property one will be accessed off of.

S

Old camper road here and the other will be accessed off of gamber road down here.

S

And finally, the department of planning determined that the proposed plan is consistent with the 2014.

S

Carroll county master plan land use, designation of residential low density, so with that pursuant.

S

To chapter 155 staff recommends approval of the final plan subject to the conditions outlined in.

S

The report and I'll just briefly touch on those that a public works agreement um is provided.

S

For the work, that's to be done on the property that two declaration of maintenance obligations.

S

One for each driveway is to be recorded that the parcels for stormwater management parcels a and.

S

Parcel c are to be conveyed to carroll county stormwater management, easement and maintenance.

S

Agreement is to be recorded and, finally, a landscape maintenance agreement is granted.

S

To carroll county for that landscaping that is to be planted on the property so before I.

S

Move on to concurrency management, were there any questions for this first section of the report.

S

So, as mentioned back in april of 2022, the project was brought before the planning zoning commission.

S

As a preliminary plan, pursuant to code, the project has to be tested for adequate facilities when it's.

S

Brought before the planning zoning commission as a preliminary plan, which this project was.

S

It was tested for schools, for police, for fire, for ems and for roads during that.

S

Time, schools, police ems and roads facilities were found to be adequate. uh Fire was the only.

S

Facility that was deemed to be approaching and adequate, so accordingly, the planning is only.

S

Commission granting conditional approval uh and it was to be retested whenever they met those.

S

Final plan requirements so with that the only agency that was retested was fire and within the.

S

Report I did provide some numbers. I do have more accurate numbers more recent numbers to provide so.

S

Between the two-year period for the gamber fire district between march 2021 and april of 2023,.

S

The fire response for late and no responses was 13.23 percent and for no responses was 2.94, which.

S

That is deemed adequate for fire response time. The average response time over that same two.

S

Year period is eight minutes and 34 seconds from dispatch to on-site scene arrival with adequate.

S

um Apparatus and personnel, and that is deemed approaching and adequate.

S

So, um although there have been some items that have been done to help mitigate this issue,.

S

Throughout the county, not just in the gamber area, because we are taking an average from.

S

That two-year period, it is going to take some time for those numbers to go down back below adequate.

S

um But it just basing it off of the numbers that we've ran last year and the numbers that.

S

We have this year uh that just now we do already see that trend of response time going down as.

S

More personnel are hired on more volunteers, are coming back this post-covered era. So with that.

S

Staff recommends that the planning commission conditionally improve the final plan with the.

S

Following conditions that fire services are considered approaching inadequate that.

S

The building permit reservation is for six lots and fiscal year 2024, provided that the plant is.

S

Recorded prior to any permits being issued that the recreation schedule requires that the plant.

S

Be recorded within 24 months of preliminary approval, the preliminary plan was approved.

S

By the planning zoning commission april 19 2022 with a written approval date of may 24, 2022 and.

S

Finally, that the building permit reservation is allowed to roll over year after year until.

S

The sunset provision takes effect uh so just to give a a better idea as to how the site looks.

S

These, I believe, are the same pictures that were provided last year to the planning.

S

Zoning commission: this is off of old camper road. Looking up at the site, you can see the contours.

S

Of the property- and you can see the house uh that no longer resides on the property, so this is at.

S

That driveway, that single-use driveway that was used to serve the property. So if there's.

S

Any other questions I'd be happy to answer them, such as uh representatives of the project. Here.

H

Yeah I see um the permit reservation is for one odd in fiscal year, 24. yeah, so that was a.

S

That was brought to my attention this morning that that is to be six slots, because they're.

S

Proposing to create six slots, it should be a building reservation for six. Instead of the one.

S

So that was a typo on my part. It should be for six, okay, so, okay.

P

Shrubbery on the road, I didn't see it listed. What what types of plantings are they putting there.

U

Trees that are planted there are based on a type a screen, so they're going to be a series.

U

Of evergreens deciduous and shrubs planted in a mixture with the with the evergreens at the top.

U

Of the slope and then the rest of them planted along, so it creates over a period of time in the.

U

Size of metal, creative, pretty dense area, it's just a house on that lot sits significantly higher than.

U

Than the bottom of the hill and those are those trees are all specified on the final plants.

H

And eat other questions. No, no! Okay! um Is there any public wishing to speak? Okay.

H

Okay, please speak into the microphone good morning. Commissioners, miss curtner. You may recognize me.

T

I'm not sure I'm stephen painter, I live with 25 24 four leaf drive. I am at the end of that lane.

T

My concern is: I'm not trying to hold up the development or anything like that. My concern is.

T

Four leaf drive itself 12 foot wide; no access to turn around and anywhere other.

T

Than my driveway or the neighbor's driveway, there's no bump out, so you can't pass on it.

T

It's a one-way end. One way out, no signage, it's private drive, so something needs to be done.

T

Before you add three additional houses with all this extra traffic into this little lane.

T

So I know you, you know where it's at you've been there, but I know you can't comment on itself.

T

That's the concerns I have, but I mean as far as stopping progress selling a lot for anything. I.

T

Have no issues with that? It's just something needs to be done for that access road to be able to pass.

T

Right now you cover somebody comes into the lane somebody's coming out as a null. So you can't see.

T

From the top, what's coming into the bottom, you get there in the middle somebody either has to.

T

Pull off in the grass or back up one way or the other then backing up on the old gamber.

T

Road does not really safe and as far as traffic on that road, there is a lot of traffic on that.

T

Right now, they're using that traffic, I mean that road has an access point, because they're paving.

T

91. all these asphalt trucks are going making a loop around there at night, because they're.

T

Doing it during the night, as far as the property itself, my opinion, it's not being maintained the.

T

Guy knows it twice a year june: they'll probably do it again in september. I mow up both sides of the.

T

Lane I mowed an area on the top, where it's flat, where somebody's house front yard is going to be.

T

There right now, people are using that to turn around in and it's full with johnson grass. We.

T

All brought up before and my yard is covered with johnson grass because it's not being maintained so.

T

That's all I had to say appreciate you listening. Thank you. Can I ask the gentlemen questions.

D

Are you part of the houston common driveway, then? Yes or just so, it's you and another neighbor, so.

T

Right now, there's two houses: one there: okay and there's going to be three additional houses in.

T

There so that's say: 10 vehicles coming in and out constantly. You can't really.

T

My house is the the one at the bottom of the picture there on the right yeah. That's it. Okay,.

T

So right now that that road is a dead end, but there's going to be a additionally, a house built.

T

There at that end that's going to be their driveway, so there's no access to turn around.

T

Anywhere other than my driveway or the neighbor's driveway, if it had a bump out or something.

T

At least you could pass on it yeah there will be three other houses. It wasn't that.

T

Seam link or driveway with no condition for turnaround or pull off area. That's your concern.

D

Yes- and I mean it's 12 foot wide, my truck's seven foot wide, there's no way you can pass.

T

And, and bringing in big construction equipment on this, this road is not public, so whatever gets.

T

Tore up, we have to maintain it, and the road does already in bad shape. The blacktop itself.

T

Is getting cracked and wavy, and I don't know exactly when it's built. I bought my house in.

T

December of 2020, not knowing any of this was going to happen in the future. I had no idea that, but.

H

So I do know when the plan came before the commission. Previously there was some.

H

Conversation about the five lots being on there and um the county said that that was.

H

Allowed allowable there um and there was a question about the fire turnaround and.

H

I don't think that was required. Am I correct david? So ultimately we do have, or I should say.

S

So when this project was submitted to the county, there was a different code that was in place at.

S

The time and so as this progressed through the review process, it's still being reviewed under.

S

That different code, there was a threshold put in place. That said, once you, your driveway, gets.

S

A certain length, that's when we have that bump out and that's when we also have a turnaround.

S

Area and neither one of these driveways had reached that threshold, so there wasn't any.

S

Code requirement to have those put in place and that's not to say they couldn't have been put in.

S

Place but there is no code requirement. That said they were forced to put those in place.

S

And as you as you stated, I also recall having discussion as to the turnaround at the at the end.

S

Of these driveways, and regardless of that discussion that occurred back then.

S

The the planning zoning commission did approve it without any type of condition to change that.

A

What length does it have to be to provide it so previous code? I believe it was 500 feet in.

S

Which those would have to be put in place, what's being shown, is a four-leaf drive which is a 450.

S

Foot long driveway and then the other driveway, which is clover drive, will be 266 feet long.

D

40 feet shy of the requirement to have a turnaround.

T

Yeah, I can tell you: ups truck amazon trucks come in their deliveries, they have a heck of.

T

A time trying to turn around they're actually using the grass, which will be somebody's front.

T

Yard, eventually, to turn around in, um I guess miss miller, um linda any chance of.

H

Some type of mitigation there to help with that I'll ask linda to speak to the specifics.

L

But briefly, I will say that the drive width that's proposed is meets the requirements. It.

L

Is the 12 feet and, as mr b craft pointed out, it does meet all of the county criteria here, but.

L

I'll, let linda's been obviously much more involved technically on this plan, so I'll. Let her speak too.

L

I remember this: we had quite a bit of discussion. uh Pete probably remembers that he and I were.

A

About fire- and you know it's 12 feet wide and that's the requirement and our concern was.

A

Getting the equipment in and out turn around, but unfortunately the code being the code.

A

It's allowable well correct me if I'm wrong david and linda, but I think fryer also does look at the.

L

Access as well not just separate from the 12-foot requirements of the specific code, so I think maybe.

L

The concerns about the turnaround in our of other vehicles- private vehicles- if you will.

D

I guess what concerns me is that the gentleman has no problem with the development itself.

D

But I'm concerned about the unintended consequences here for he and his neighbor.

D

Who's already been there with this traffic business, and I know that 12 feet's not very.

D

Wide for anything to pass on, there are a lot of vehicles coming in now. These developments now.

D

With amazon ups drivers, partial drivers and all, and that that's a concern, I don't it just seems.

D

Like there should be some mitigation here to alleviate what looks like more than a potential.

D

Problem but a real problem: that's going to exist to existing neighbors and and that that bothers me.

D

um You know neighborhoods are grown on trust and and being good neighbors to each other, but.

D

When you start driving into the next guy's lawn or turning around when it's muddy, if.

D

It ever gets muddy. um I have a problem. I just seems like it seems to me like there should be.

D

A way to mitigate this potential problem here, which is going to be a real problem.

D

The thought I I would hope that it would be better than than putting a sign in his in his.

D

Lawns they don't turn around on my lawn. That's not a very good solutions, not a solution at all.

U

Okay, so the use in common- that's there is based on 12 foot wide and the code that was in place.

U

At the time this was approved these there is also a using common agreement. Over top.

U

Of this driveway that was put in place prior to those two homes being purchased, it stated.

U

At that time that there was at least two more homes that were going to be on this driveway.

U

Okay, um I grant you that these houses back there are tight to when those other driveways go in. What.

U

We have proposed on the on and what the builder intends to build on. These houses are double wide.

U

Driveways and that type of stuff that hopefully, would facilitate some of that if a amazon truck.

U

Comes in he's got room to turn around in some of those driveways. This meets the code. We are.

U

Two three years in on the design that's shown on here, storm orders approved any additional changes.

U

Or any additional paving would have to go back before at least three or four agencies through the.

U

County putting it to increase any type of paving out here, it's a quantity issue quality I mean.

U

It's just you know, even some of the stormwater on this was approved prior to some of the more.

U

Updated policy changes, I understand his concerns and we could talk about with the developer. You.

U

Know maybe, and as far as the pavement that's on here, the intention is once these houses are built.

U

There's going to have to be a surface course put on that, so any damage that happens to that.

U

Driveway, when these, when these homes go in, is going to be fixed prior before those homes are.

U

Completely sold, I'm not 100 sure that there's a base or a surface course pavement out here.

U

So any type of heavy equipment that's coming in to build those homes. The builder is going to be.

U

Responsible for repairing that driveway when he goes back out the entrance on this is going to be.

U

Widened out based on the state's requirements and there's going to be a parking pad or a.

U

Trash pad and some other additional items added to this use in common that are not currently there in.

U

The field that allows for a more of a passing, you know, type of thing, maybe there's something that we.

U

Can look at I can talk to the developer about maybe when actually the construction of these.

U

Houses happen, maybe a pullover or something could be added somewhere. You know I mean like maybe not.

U

There's not room for a turnaround. These wells are drilled. All the wells in this property are drilled.

U

And a lot of those wells are right back around where a turnaround would have went in at that.

U

Point in time, so it becomes tight to do that, but we can always discuss the possibility, possibility.

U

Not saying it can happen of potentially trying to add you know some addition like a pullover.

U

Or something like he was saying at the top of the hill. It's just this late in the game. I've got to.

U

You know we were here because of fire, where we were not necessarily here for the final plans.

U

Everybody signed off any type of change to those plans goes back through. I understand that the gut.

D

You went by code, I understand that and and that's all well and good, but there should be some good.

D

Neighbor policy that goes along with it, and I will see some potential problems here so that they are.

D

Everyone is a good neighbor in this potential development here and not add to a problem.

D

So let's say that that driveway is not being used for any of the construction of the site itself.

U

So anything that's happening interior to the site as far as any of the stormwater and the other.

U

Building of that use in common and anything that's happening in the state, they are not using that use.

U

In common, not using comma would only be used to construct the actual private house. That's gone.

D

Okay, thank you, mr robertson, I'll chime in real quickly after linda to say that the only intent.

L

Here is to be a good neighbor. I've worked with these clients for years, and I can I can say that.

L

Three times over, um the I think what linda expressed is what I'll emphasize, which is.

L

Today's review was focused again on the fire emergency services aspect and I we have taken.

L

This into consideration- and they have thought about this in the design- I'm I'm personally.

L

Familiar with many shared driveways like this, there can be times where. Yes, there can be two.

L

People trying to come, it's it's inevitable, but for the most part, I'm also familiar with one.

L

That works pretty well, and I think that the this was not necessarily unanticipated. Given that the.

L

Maintenance obligations existed to add additional lots back here. It was always contemplated that.

L

There were going to be additional lots back here, so that was um you know. It was never the.

L

Intent for this to be a surprise, we're adding additional traffic to a lane. That was never.

L

Anticipated to have that, I don't want anybody to think that that was kind of what occurred here.

L

Okay, okay and eat additional comments. If anything, I could possibly think of maybe to the right as.

T

You shoot the right angle coming up the driveway from my house, there's like a bump out going to the.

T

Left there's additional room there to the right. You could possibly put a bump out there because.

T

Well, yeah, I guess the paper's laid out there is an access there. It's parked my property.

T

And a neighbor mr profits property. That would be the only thing widening that road next side.

T

Other than that I mean, I know, there's no way to put like a cul-de-sac in there, there's just no room whatsoever.

T

But I'm sorry I didn't make the last meeting my work schedule didn't allow me to be here, but.

T

I did watch the videos one time I knew you talked about and brought it up, but.

T

It is a concern, and I know it's not going to get away it's just going to get worse.

T

That's all I had to say really appreciate time all right. Thank you. Thank you.

H

Any other public comment.

H

Okay, hearing none, um gentlemen I'll make a motion, but I am going to make an editorial.

G

Comment first, do what you know: we've been talking about these use in common driveways for several.

G

Years now, and- and I think things have changed um to where you know with with fedex amazon ups.

G

All of those things um I think the the days of 300 foot, long, 500, foot long use in common driveways.

G

With no turnaround, I think, they're limited and I think we as a county need to address the fact.

G

That people's lifestyles have changed a little bit and not only that the density of the county, while.

G

We're still rural and we like, where we live, as as we get more and more dense, just being able to.

G

Accommodate people coming home from work delivers being dropped off and emergency vehicles, which we.

G

Have talked about, I mean commissioner, wants before you tom. I mean he was. You know he was big on the.

G

The emergency vehicle and support of those first responders, I'm rattling on, um I think, there's some.

G

Things that we need to do to tighten this up so that we can continue to develop lots like this.

G

Infill lots, you know and and utilize properties like this, but we need to do a better job of.

G

Infrastructure and supporting it. Having said that, I think these people have done everything they're.

G

Supposed to do everything they're required to do if there's something more, they can.

G

Do um I I hope the county will work with them? Having said all of that, uh move that we approve.

G

um This is drawn and recommended by the staff, with the four stipulations uh with with the the mindset.

G

That stipulation 2 will correctly state six lots as it was intended. um That's my motion. Okay,.

H

um You want to include chapter 155, or should that be separate jim, uh yes, one! You should take.

O

A motion on chapter 155 approval and then a separate motion and vote on the chapter.

O

156: okay: approval: you want to go backwards on 155, first sure movie approved, subject to 155.

G

And the six uh recommendations: okay, a second okay. We have a first and a second.

H

All in favor hi any change. Okay, all right now I'll go to the dressing uh 156 with.

G

The revision on uh with the subject of the four stipulations made by staff revising with the one.

G

Edit being that we revised and note that it's not one lot but six, okay.

H

Second, that's: okay. We have a first and a second all in favor aye any opposed. Okay. It stands.

H

Approved um you can have your building permits. Finally and 24.. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

H

Okay, moving line to the item, 12 final subdivision plan, fx 23001, zero, one crystal springs, section: two.

H

E

Groundhog day, yeah.

U

I need a shorter chair. I can't touch me too.

H

David, I believe the earth up again, that is correct, so david b craft with the bureau of development.

S

Review with the last project on the daca this morning, which is crystal springs, section two file.

S

Number fx230001 with me are a few representatives of the project who I will let introduce themselves.

S

Hi, I'm sio yeah, listen to me, I'm linda alexander, with clsi, I'm the engineer on the project.

V

Rebecca danaman, I'm the personal representative of the estate of geneva brown and the state of.

V

Geneva brown owns the property and similar to the last project. This is before the planning zoning.

S

Commission, as a final subdivision plan, uh almost a duplicate of what the situation is is that this.

S

Went before the planning zoning commission a lot more recent than the last one, I believe it was.

S

March of this year, it was before the planning zoning commission, as a preliminary plan and.

S

It received approval of the preliminary plan that time at that time, however, chapter 156 concurrency.

S

Management had one or two facilities that were approaching inadequate, so we're back before the.

S

Planning zoning commission as a final plan with the retest of those facilities. So even though.

S

This project was back uh was brought before the planning zoning commission as a preliminary plan.

S

Only a few months ago, for those who are unfamiliar or may not remember, the project is up towards the.

S

Tawny, town area- this is route 140 down here. This is tyrone road and here is cross section road.

S

So the address of the property itself is 2341 cross-section road westminster, maryland, 21158.

S

And I guess as a formality, I should say so as mentioned, this is before.

S

The planning zoning commission as a final plan, we are looking for two actions. This.

S

Morning, uh approval on the final plan of subdivision pursuant to chapter 155 and.

S

Conditional approval of the final plan of subdivision pursuant to chapter 156.

S

So the project itself, the property, was once comprised of just shy of 70 acres. It had.

S

Two off conveyances that were taken back in nineteen, the 1990s, and then there was.

S

Section one which took three lots on the south side of cross-section road, which was recorded.

S

In 1996., this left the area outlined as the remaining portion, which is roughly 38 39 acres.

S

uh The remaining portion currently hosts a private residence, as you can see shown here. There are.

S

A few outbuildings associated with that property, the property itself, is outside the primary funding.

S

Area as well as a designated growth area, the surrounding properties to the north, south and east.

S

Are all zone agriculture and they are improved with single family residences, they're joining.

S

Property to the west is also zone agriculture, but it is currently unimproved now subject: property.

S

And all surrounding properties are currently served by private, well and septic systems.

S

So not much has changed since the property was brought before the planning zoning commission.

S

A few months back, they are still proposing just one lot of subdivision, which is lot number four.

S

uh Property itself that they're proposing will be 1.51 acres and it will have direct.

S

Access on the cross-section road after this lot is recorded, the remaining portion, which.

S

Would then be just over 37 acres will not be entitled to the creation of any.

S

More residential lots, a note outlining this has been added to the plat, which is to be recorded.

S

So the concept subdivision plan was initially submitted january 25th of 2021. It went to the.

S

Technical review committee meeting uh february 22nd of 2021 there's no citizens at that meeting.

S

But there were a few citizens that reached out to find out what was happening on a property.

S

But they did not provide any opposition on march 21st 2023, the planning zoning commission reviewed.

S

And approved the concept, preliminary plan of subdivision no citizens signed in or spoke.

S

At that meeting and since that meeting I have never heard any anything from any residents in.

S

The area in reference to this project, so the project itself is exempt from landscaping and.

S

Floodplain requirements, water resource management, soil conservation, exoting and grading and sediment.

S

Control have all granted final approval of the plan. Forced conservation is to be addressed with.

S

A force conservation easement on the remaining portion- and that is shown up in this area.

S

Engineering review has reviewed and approved the plan with the approval of a site, distance.

S

Barrier variance of the the new driveway, that's proposed, the carroll county health department and.

S

The bureau of utilities have approved the plan with on-site well and septic proposed stormwater.

S

Management has granted final approval of the plan. uh Stormwater management will be achieved by way.

S

Of an infiltration firm, which will be shown here and will discharge onto the remaining.

S

Portion this will require a right to discharge agreement that I believe has already been recorded.

S

And finally, the department of planning determined that the proposed plan is consistent with the 2014.

S

Carroll county master plan land use designation of agriculture, so with that the staff recommends.

S

Approval pursuant to chapter 155, uh really with only three conditions, one is that a stormwater.

S

Management, easement and maintenance agreement being recorded. The second is a forced conservation.

S

Easement is granted to the carroll county and, finally, that any changes to the preliminary plan.

S

As submitted and approved by, the commission shall be resubmitted for further review and approval.

S

So before I move on to the concurrency aspect of things, were there any questions in reference to.

S

No okay, so moving on to concurrency management, similar to the last project when this was brought.

S

Before the planning zoning commission as an employmentary plan, the available facilities.

S

Were tested for adequacy and those facilities were for schools, police, fire, ems and roads. During that.

S

Testing, schools, police and roads were found to be adequate. Fire and ems was found to be approaching.

S

Inadequate, accordingly, planning zoning commission granted conditional approval of the preliminary.

S

Plan under chapter 156., this is back before the planning zoning commission as a final plan. It has.

S

Since been retested only for fire and ems services, as that was the or those two were, the only.

S

Facilities that were deemed approaching inadequate at the time, so the property itself is located in.

S

The pleasant valley, fire and ems district, the most recent data provided by the office of public.

S

Safety for the two-year period of june 2021 to may 2023 state that late and no response statistical.

S

Data that of the first do total fire calls and the pleasant valley. District 2.22 were categorized as.

S

No responses and 12.22 as late and no responses of the first due emergency medical services.

S

0.78 were categorized as no responses and one percent as late in their responses, pleasant.

S

Valley is rated adequate for late and no response criteria for fire and ems.

S

With regard to fire call average response time for the same two-year period, pleasant valley,.

S

Had an average response, time of 8 minutes and 51 seconds, which is deemed approaching and adequate.

S

With regards to emergency medical call, average response time pleasant valley had an average.

S

Response time of 9 minutes and 41 seconds, which is also approaching inadequate for those who are.

S

Unfamiliar services are rated approaching and adequate if, when utilizing an average over the.

S

Past 24 months response time is between 8 and 10 minutes from time of dispatch to on sun arrival.

S

So similar scenario to the previous project, actually even more so with the the lapse of.

S

Preliminary and final testing, when you have an average over two years, retesting after four or.

S

So months, it's not really gonna to make much of a difference unless your response time goes down.

S

To 30 seconds so with that staff recommends conditional approval pursuant to chapter 156.

S

Noting that firing ems are considered approaching inadequate that the building permit reservation.

S

Is for one lot and fiscal year 2024, provided that the plant is recorded prior to any permits being.

S

Issued that the recognition schedule will require the plant to be recorded within 24 months of the.

S

Preliminary plan approval, having been approved by the planning zoning commission on march 21st, 2023.

S

A written approval had a date of march 29, 2023 and finally, the building permit reservation is allowed.

S

To roll over year after year, until the sunset provision takes a place so for those who want.

S

A reminder as to how the project looks: these are just a few shots of where that proposed. Driveway.

S

Is going to be located or whereabouts, this is just looking both ways on cross-section road. This is.

S

Looking at the site or I'm sorry, this is on the site looking at the road, and this is just a shot.

S

Of further back on the site and a general area as to where the house may be placed, so if there's any.

S

Questions uh any concerns, I'd be happy to answer them or the representatives here with me today.

D

That's a 36 acre remaining portion.

D

What what is that, subject to in the future, as far as lot yield so with this lot with this.

S

Being number four they're tapped out unless the property is resumed or unless there's.

S

A change in the provision of code they're not allowed any further residential locks.

D

Now, that's not to say they, uh the remaining couldn't add a detached accessory dwelling.

S

It would be on the same property, it wouldn't be split off, but they could add a second house on.

S

The property subject to the remaining portion on the remaining portion: okay,.

H

um Miss alexander: do you have anything? No, we agree with the staff we're just.

U

Here to answer any questions: okay, okay, um any other questions.

H

Any public that like to comment.

H

Okay, seeing uh I'd like I'd like to make a comment on that public, but.

V

um I just wanna reiterate what I'd said before. I guess is that this, this property is it's a.

V

Beautiful lot and it involves an estate where my mother died in 2019 and we we've started on.

V

This process in 2020, so it's been three years in the in the making and we cannot settle the estate.

V

Until the disposition of this lot is taken care of and uh and I'm encouraged, that the county has.

V

Been proactive in dealing with their emergency services and they have a good plan and they've.

V

Started implementing it and whatnot, so I don't feel that the almost inadequate situation is.

V

Going to be an issue, so I hope that I hope I appreciate you seeing us today and um I hope.

V

That we can resolve this pretty quickly, so we can get on with the estate settlement. Thank you.

H

Okay, thank you um all right. Would someone like to make a motion for chapter 155 in chapter 156., sure.

H

You want to go yeah go ahead. uh Yeah I'll make the recommendation that we approve.

E

This, uh according to chapter 155, with the three, follow the three conditions. Second, okay: we have.

H

A motion and a second for approving chapter 155 for fx 23001, crystal springs section two.

H

um All in favor aye aye any opposed; okay, that is approved um and then chapter 156.

E

That's a it says: conditional approval, yeah yeah I'll, make the recommendation for the.

E

Conditional approval, uh according to chapter 156, with the four recommendations from steph.

E

Second, okay: we have a motion and a second for one chapter, 156 all in favor aye any opposed. Okay, all.

H

Right, you are approved to go and I know it's been a journey, but congratulations. Thank you very much.

H

Okay, um we are at. Where are, we are at.

H

Recess 13.: let's take um five minutes. Yes,.

E

For this, thank you sure.

D

All right, we are going to go back his session here.

H

um So we are moving along. We are at item number 14.

H

Adult use cannabis mary lane and hannah weber you're up. Thank you um just as an overview of the.

W

Next, six items we're bringing six text amendments that were referred by at various times by the.

W

Board of county commissioners per the zoning code to you for your review and comment. um Our.

W

Anticipation today is not that you vote them out. It is meant to be an introduction and discussion.

W

But if there are any that you feel ready to vote out, you could do that. um There are varying degrees.

W

Of complexity, there's a couple that you might feel comfortable making a recommendation on this is not.

W

Going to be one of them, probably so I'm going to let hannah start with that. Thank you. Okay,.

X

Good morning, everybody, um as you can see the first text amendment up is the adult use cannabis.

X

um This was referred by the board of county commissioners on april 20th. This amendment is.

X

Being discussed because of the new maryland legislation on the new legislation expands.

X

Legalization of what was previously only medical cannabis to adult use cannabis to residents 21.

X

Years or older, and at the april 20th meeting with the county commissioners, they gave some direction.

X

To prohibit on-site consumption and to restrict the cannabis dispensaries as much as possible.

X

And we'll get into more detail on that so currently we do have medical cannabis in language.

X

In our zoning code, dispensaries for medical cannabis are permitted in the c2 and c3 district.

X

Facilities for dispensing of medical cannabis in conjunction with a cannabis, growing and or.

X

Processing facility are permitted in the i1 and i2 district. We also have distance.

X

Requirements and specific regulations for medical cannabis in our zoning code.

X

So the distance requirements for medical cannabis is, they must be 400 feet from any.

X

Lot in a residential district and 400 feet from any lot less than three acres in the.

X

Ag and conservation district under the general regulations for growing processing and dispensing.

X

Facilities, outdoor growing of medical cannabis is prohibited in all districts. All lighting.

X

Shall comply with site plan requirements, site plans require planning commission.

X

Approval and no variances from this section or the distance requirements shall be granted.

X

So just looking high level at the new maryland legislation, it permits the selling growing and.

X

Processing of adult use cannabis in the state of maryland. Current medical dispensaries could.

X

Apply to be converted to an adult use and a standard medical dispensary, the legislation.

X

Gives zoning authority to jurisdictions with the tag of political subdivisions may not establish.

X

Zoning or other requirements that unduly burden the cannabis licensee, and that is where we are.

X

Having a lot of hardship in trying to figure out what unduly burden actually means to the state.

X

Jurisdictions also have the authority to prohibit on-site consumption establishments.

X

And that was the direction that the board of county commissioners would like to go into.

X

um On-Site consumption establishments are entities licensed to distribute cannabis and.

X

Cannabis products for on-site consumption and this legislation went into effect on july 1st.

X

So next steps we have no medical dispensaries in the county. There are some in the municipalities.

X

But at the county there are no medical dispensaries. So with that being said, the.

X

State is doing two different licensing rollouts in 2024. on january 1st 2024 they're, giving the.

X

Licenses to social equity applicants only and then on may 1st 2024 is another rollout for all.

X

Applicants, so that's when we would like to have something in our zoning code by may 1st 2024.

X

So we have some options: wait on state for clarification and zoning. This will be the.

X

Staff recommendation, as we are not sure what unduly burden means we can mirror the zoning.

X

Regulations for medical cannabis for the adult use cannabis. We can move forward with prohibiting.

X

On-Site consumption this will require additional language to definitions, use tables and etc, and.

X

This also no licenses for on-site consumption will be distributed until may 1st 2024. and then the.

X

Last option is, we can work on creating new zoning regulations for cannabis, dispensaries altogether.

X

So that's it for my presentation. um I guess open up for questions.

X

Thank you, um I don't have a question, but can we get an electronic version.

H

Absolutely okay! Thank you. So any questions, gentlemen.

H

We want to take public comment for each one individually,.

H

Sure, yeah, okay and lastly, did anybody see my glasses [laughter].

G

Glasses to find my glasses okay, I had them yeah. Okay, um any public comment on.

H

Adult use cannabis: okay, seeing none. um We can move on to item 15 farm alcohol, producer, food.

H

Production we need some direction on what you guys would like to do. Well, I'm taking that to.

W

Mean you want to wait until we get a little more clarification right, clarification, okay, yeah, yeah.

A

Okay- um and we probably won't have that by the next meeting um august 15th, because there's going.

W

To be a lot of discussion about this down in ocean city at mako, um we are not alone in this there's.

W

Confusion by a lot of the counties, I'm waiting for answers and we've actually been working with.

W

Mako staff in developing questions that we would like the new newly formed commission to get back.

W

To us with, and it's not just dispensaries, it's growing and processing, there's a lot of vagueness.

W

In the law, right now from our perspective in traveling and zoning verification, I know.

D

There are no, there are growers in carroll county now right. I don't think I think.

W

There's one in tony in tiny town, but I think that's that's a municipality, so you referred.

D

So there are no growers or dispensaries outside of any municipality, correct. Okay,.

D

So that's another reason, so they can determine their own correct uses and their own okay, yep.

D

I just wanted to clarify: that's also why we have some time to wait because there's nothing.

X

Going to be affected by any new language we put in so any municipality then could have.

G

An individuals you need to live in that having access to.

X

From my understanding you could they can't give a new license out? It was only for medical.

X

Dispensaries before and then you they would had to have applied to be involved in the.

X

Adult use, but if you say, if you had like a vacant building and you wanted to do an.

X

Adult use dispensary there you wouldn't be able to get a license until may 1st 2024.

D

So it's determined then by the county and the zoning.

D

If, if have a grower in the county, but not a dispensary,.

D

What do one or the other if the zoning laws would allow, I mean or well for medical you can you do.

D

The whole nine yards in the county, you will be if you meet the other requirements yeah. So the.

W

Dispensaries are you can have a drive-through out in the middle of wakefield valley? You know.

D

You got to be in right now. No I'm not I'm talking that, but if it's determined then the.

D

Law allows whatever the county decides to do in that respect. Whatever's in the zoning code, yeah.

X

But right now we only allow the dispensaries in the commercial districts or the industrial.

X

Districts, so I'm trying to determine is what what this new law allows: the county yeah and we want.

D

Us to do our own thing: yeah yeah, that's to do all this stuff, yeah and that's another reason.

X

We would like to hold off until we get more okay yeah. There are a lot of questions. Oh yeah.

H

um Yeah, all right, so you can move on to item 15.

H

Like before, if we can get the electronic version of all these, so um the second.

W

Text amendment under consideration is farm alcohol, producer, food production.

W

In 2018, the board of county commissioners adopted an ordinance which established regulations for.

W

Food, I'm sorry farm alcohol producers in carroll county. I would point out this was a.

W

Very extended process that involved all the the farm bureau all kinds of players in this, and it.

W

Went through a lot of work sessions and such but these regulations place limitations on the.

W

Type of food served in conjunction with tours and tastings. This is basically at wineries to.

W

Being only those ready for service and an estate generally ready for consumption, so pre-packaged.

W

So then, in 2023 the maryland general assembly adopted sb 322, allowing for the preparation.

W

Of certain foods, in conjunction with class iv wineries, making the current zoning regulations.

W

Inconsistent with the new state law so on may 4th the board of county commissioners referred.

W

This as part of another referral that they gave us to the planning commission for your review.

W

Currently, farm alcohol producer is defined as a farm that grows and processes, stores and or.

W

Sells agricultural products for the production of wine, beer, brandy, juice or other similar beverage.

W

On an on-site producing vineyard, orchard, hopyard or similar growing area, and it is a conditional.

W

Use in both the ag and conservation districts with some additional regulations, so there's a.

W

Number of additional regulations that came out of that work group that I talked about when this was.

W

First adopted- and this is the current language regarding tours and tastings- and I'm not going.

W

To read all that, but it's it's basically what we're looking at here is number three. The food.

W

Arrives at the establishment ready for service or in a state generally ready for consumption.

W

So what we're proposing is to make our code in line with the new state law which changes it.

W

To be the farm, alcohol producer may prepare, sell and serve food in accordance with the.

W

Provisions outlined in the farm alcohol producers state license and must also obtain appropriate.

W

Licensing and approvals from the carroll county health department we're also proposing- and you.

W

See where the strikeout language is its deleted language at this time, even though number three the.

W

Food arriving ready for service or in a state generally ready for consumption is what we're.

W

Trying to get rid of on a staff level, we also discuss taking out one and two because really.

W

They're not enforceable [music] um it's just difficult to determine if something is secondary.

W

And complementary, so the our recommendation would be to take those all of that language out and.

W

Replace it just that it be in accordance with the state law and the carroll county health department,.

W

That's all we have on that one. This is one that if you felt comfortable doing this you you could.

W

Ref back out to the board of county commissioners to start moving because the process from here on.

W

Then is that they would set it for public hearing um and then advertising public hearing hold of.

W

Public hearing and vote and all that takes a little bit of time and there are actually.

W

um Wineries that could use this to become in compliance.

W

I don't know if you wanted to do that. If you wanted to discuss it more, we have nothing.

W

Else to bring to you, unless you have any other information, you would want yeah. My only question.

G

Is I saw something you know that was where we're going to be talking about restaurants in ag. That's.

W

Going to be different, I think that's next that's different than this, and so we, if because I have.

G

No problem with this- I don't mean to you, know uh I I think it makes sense to to move it on up. I.

G

Just want to make sure that we're not going to have to rehash this when we talk about.

G

Restaurants, no and that's why we separated it out. The commissioner sent the whole concept to.

W

You, but we decided this one was an easier one to get out and required fewer um fewer meetings for.

W

Discussion, this makes sense to me um because I I I don't go to a ton of wineries but where I.

G

Where I have, you know whether they have food trucks or whatever it just makes some sense.

H

H

If you would like to, is there right? Do we have any public comments? Oh public comment. Yes, no.

O

I mean we can take public comment if it's there, okay is there any public comment on.

H

The farm alcohol producer, no okay, seeing none.

A

Richard make a motion that we do delete the language and put in the new language.

W

And a favorable recommendation of that concept to the board of county community.

H

Okay, we have a first and a second all in favor aye aye, any opposed. Okay.

H

Off to the commissioners, it goes all right. Item 16, restaurants in the agricultural district.

X

So you're a little head, but this is, um as mary said, the second part of what.

X

The commissioner is originally forwarded to you all. um This was referred by the.

X

County commissioners on may 4th and it was to review restaurants in the agriculture district.

X

um Just kind of a summary of the text amendment restaurants are currently not allowed in the ag.

X

Or conservation zone a recent bza case certified a restaurant as an accessory used to a driving.

X

Range in the ag zone, golfing industries often have accessory restaurants to their main use.

X

In the zona code, we defined in accessory use as a use of land or all or part of a building which.

X

Is customarily incidental and secondary to the principal use of the property and which is located.

X

On the same lot with the principal use, restaurant restaurants are a principal permitted use in the.

X

C1 c2 c3 and employment campus district, so they are not in accessory use in those districts.

X

So pulling applicable zoning code language for this discussion, the outdoor recreational area.

X

We have defined as a commercially operated outdoor recreation or entertainment facility.

X

Including, but not limited to miniature golf course, skating, rink, ball field, swimming pool.

X

Tennis court paintball center golf driving or batting range, and then we have a golf course.

X

Defined as an area of land laid out for playing golf with a series of holes, each including a t.

X

Fairway and putting green and often one or more natural or artificial hazards.

X

So golf courses and outdoor recreational areas are a conditional use in the agriculture and conservation districts.

X

In the distance requirements, golf courses must be at least 200 feet from any lot in a residential.

X

District, any residential lot of less than three acres in the ag or conservation district and then.

X

They must have a minimum separation of 300 feet from dwellings on a lot more than three acres.

X

And then golf courses also requires site plan and an environmental impact plan. Approval.

X

So the staff recommendation is to revise the definition of outdoor recreation area to remove.

X

Golf driving we revised the definition of golf course to include golf driving range.

X

And then add to chapter 158 169, which is the additional regulations for golf courses to allow.

X

Restaurants as a co-located conditional use to golf courses and driving ranges.

X

That's all we have for this. Okay, um I'm going to go on a little bit of a rant here, bring it.

D

um I'm familiar with it with the golf driving range situation and just give you a little.

D

Background on that, at one time that was a farm. So it's in the ag zone, the owner.

D

Was allowed to develop that farm, take all the lots off and then you had a remaining portion.

D

So so the first thing that happened on that parcel was a church established, was established there and.

D

It was allowed in the ag zone, part of 50 some other things that are allowed in the accent.

D

um And the next thing that happened, then, is the church needed an accessory dwelling. There.

D

So there's one more residential house was put on that parcel.

D

Then came the golf driving range which was allowed in the ag zone. Then came.

D

The need for a hot dog stand as everybody gets hungry when they're driving a golf.

D

Ball and they needed something to drink, so that was allowed.

D

And then the next thing was allowed was a restaurant happened to want to want to be there.

D

Which was part of all this and then after that, in the ag zone. Now where there is residential.

D

Development in different areas around it, it became an entertainment venue where.

D

People came in and sang and danced and carried on, and that was allowed, or it was a loud enough.

D

To happen so this is an example of um let's do it and then get a permission afterwards. So these.

D

These are the things that bother me: the erosion of our egg zone and we slowly and and deliberately.

D

Start to erode the egg zone, and this parcel is, is like the prime example of what can happen.

D

When when one thing leads to another and then the owners do it and then they ask permission later.

D

And then we're we're so far down the road that we sit here and say: well, you know the guy spent 250.

D

000 put his restaurant in and another hundred thousand dollars to bring in.

D

um Joe blow to to uh entertain and it's disrupting the neighborhoods and it's eroding our ag zone.

D

um This bothers me because I just see it happening time and time again, a lot of.

D

This I'm I'm not I'm not against. I know there are uses that are allowed out there, but, as you.

D

Move down the line, we're continually eroding and eroding and eroding and.

D

um I'm not sure where it's going to stop. I would love to see a review of the uses in the ag zone.

D

By the directed by the commissioners just to to understand what is allowed.

D

And I think you'd be amazed at the amount. I think you know, I'm not assuming you don't.

D

But I don't think the public knows how many things are allowed in the ag zone that that undermines.

D

The intent of the agricultural zoning and that that has bothered a lot of people for a lot of.

D

Years, instead of adding to the uses, permitted and conditional in the ag zone, maybe we better.

D

Start looking at some of these things and say: does this really comply with the intent of our zoning.

H

Well, I do think, as we established a lot of this previously, some of that is spelled out as to what.

H

Can be allowed in some of these zones, but I do agree. We probably need to look at that, but I think.

H

Here we have the staff recommendation. Is this something we can push back up to the commissioners.

H

um To say, you know like just like with your reading: yes, one favorable or unfavorable.

X

Recommendation of so what do you? What do you describe as outdoor recreation.

D

um A four-wheeler track: well, this recommendation is not for all outdoor recreation, it'll just be.

X

Removing the um golf driving range from this definition definition and putting it.

X

In the golf course definition, so the only place where a restaurant can be co-located.

X

In the ag zone and conservation zone would be with a golf course or a driving range. It.

X

Wouldn't open it up to all of these uses in the outdoor recreation definition and does it limit.

G

Did I'm sorry, did you have anything else to say oh no you're good and does that to his point.

G

The unintended consequences of this you know where the operation- you know it's great- that.

G

Somebody's successful and is attracting people to to you know it's attract an attractive place to be.

G

At the same time, the surrounding neighbors, you know, do: how do we limit that activity.

G

That is in conjunction with the restaurant to indoor activity or um and we're coming back.

G

To noise right because the outdoor concerts or you have some, you have a wine and cheese thing.

G

Outside with a guy playing a guitar again, I'm I I'm all for music, I love it and I like these kinds.

G

Of venues I'm just concerned about the neighbors and the erosion right of of of what ag is so how.

G

Do we do that? um A part of our recommendation is to make this a conditional use to allow it to go.

X

Through the bca process and that'll allow for more public input and conditions to be put on the use.

W

um As well as its own site plan, then, because now it's not any longer allowed to be considered in.

W

Accessory use in those golf venues, it has to be a principal use, which means it needs a site plan, but.

W

In answer to your bigger question, it doesn't solve the problem you're talking about for.

W

Anything other than the gulf we haven't addressed any other outdoor recreational activities and then.

G

The and I'll say I'll shut up one of the other things that I think, as a commission.

G

We've been frustrated by is we do things here and we have something in mind and then the bza.

G

Does other things, and so I'd kind of like to like to tighten it up here so that the bza has a more.

G

A fuller understanding of what we intended well, it's just and I'm not I'm not trying.

D

To pick one gentleman that has the golf or the lady of the family, that has the golf.

D

But if and and this is fact if you invite someone like lee greenwood in on 4th of july, to sing.

D

America and all, how do we know how it could be 20, 000 people show up, or it could be four.

D

Thousand or eight hundred so how? How do you even begin to regulate that kind of a thing in the ag.

D

Zone where there's not sufficient roads to cover something like that, and so we just and I'm going.

D

To stop right now, but um it just keeps eroding and eroding the quality of and the culture that we've.

D

Tried to initiate here and to hold our zoning in place, which has made carroll county the desirable.

D

Place for people to come and do all these things, um and, and that's that concerns me greatly- um I'm.

D

All for entrepreneurship, believe me, I hear you yeah, um so I I believe the place you're talking.

H

About the surrounding property, while there's still some ag 2 has been developed with houses.

H

um I know I've been to that place a couple of times. I I do believe, there's probably a time.

H

Limit for um any outdoor music that they usually have um just like the wedding venues. Well, that's.

O

um So that we have a temporary, uh I guess zoning use uh certificate process.

O

um Which was the situation with the concert at island green where they applied for.

O

um Basically, a temporary zoning certificate in order to allow that event to happen and.

O

As part of approval for that temporary zoning certificate, it needs to go through a number.

O

Of agencies to sign off including roads, police, the health department.

O

Etc, etc, um so there are some, um I guess, guard rails um with that respect to having large.

O

Events in the ag zone and that's uh governed by our temporary zoning certificate process.

W

And then, in this case it would be governed by if the bza wanted to put additional conditions on it.

W

As a conditional use, so right now it's considered an accessory use and that's harder to regulate a.

W

Conditional use the bza has the opportunity to limit the number, the duration, that type of thing.

O

And again, if the uh the entity or the property owner is, you know out of compliance with those.

O

Conditions, then that conditional use approval can be withdrawn there. You go okay, um okay, so.

H

What is our pleasure? Do you want to move it up with a favorable or unfavorable, or we can.

W

Bring it back on the 15th if you want the month to think about it, I mean we're not pushing this.

A

We are favorable to the staff recommendation.

H

To go to the board of commissioners: do we want to have public comment first, before any vote.

H

Yes, sorry, um oh here come hi uh bill, mccormick, real, quick just to clarify this is only for ag.

C

Land with golf courses is that correct, in my understanding that correctly, okay, but like.

C

Putt-Putt courses or anything like that that okay, all right, thank you. Okay, any other public comment.

H

Okay, seeing none richard make a motion that we can do staff recommendations to the commissioners.

H

I hear a second, it's a favorable right with a favorite book, yeah, a second okay. We have.

H

A motion and a second to move to um send a favorable recommendation to the commissioners.

H

For the restaurants in the agricultural district, so all in favor.

H

Any opposed, okay, send it up all right: 17 substance, abuse, definitions, okay,.

W

um So just a little history on this one. On june 29th of this year, the board met to discuss, uses in the.

W

Agricultural and conservation zones, we had a work session in this room where we had the use table in.

W

Front of them we had some other information and they did go through it to discuss kind of what.

W

You've been talking about the appropriateness of other uses in the agricultural district, just.

W

Generally speaking, so, one area of concern was the lack of clarity in the definitions pertaining to.

W

Drug treatment facilities, which under federal law, are included in the definitions of nursing home.

W

And assisted living facilities and and really this came up because there was a nursing home in front.

W

Of the conversion of a nursing home, I believe in front of the bza that was going to be, and.

W

Is going to be a drug treatment facility, but under federal law? The distinction cannot be made between.

W

A nursing home, as we would think of it for elderly people and the um the drug treatment facility.

W

So, in an effort to provide this clarity for citizens in the future, the board of county commit.

W

Commissioners referred this issue to the planning commission pursuant to the zoning code, but the.

W

Motion was limited to the revision of relevant definitions and did not include directions for.

W

A review of any other regulations, because it is understood that under federal and I believe, state.

W

Law, we cannot, we cannot change. What's in the use table regard regarding drug treatment facilities.

W

Without impacting all nursing homes and assisted livings, so um I it's noted there that this applies.

W

To all zoning districts because its definitions, but really it's not a substantive change to the.

W

Code, it's a clarification that we're proposing be made so just even though we're not changing this.

W

By way of information, these are all the districts from the ag all the way to the employment campus.

W

Where these uses are permitted by conditional use and permitted by right, which is the c and the p.

W

um You can see that assisted living and nursing home are conditional uses in the ag conservation.

W

And all the residential and permitted by right in the commercial districts and we'll get to.

W

Those other uses a little bit later because we are going to impact those in a different way.

W

um So what we're proposing is this definition, a new definition again, not a new use in the.

W

Use table just a new definition that says a drug treatment facility is a licensed facility that.

W

Specializes in the evaluation and treatment of drug addiction, alcoholism and associated disorders.

W

This facility may provide residential treatment, partial hospital treatment or outpatient treatment.

W

Services the facility may provide a treatment program for behavioral health services only.

W

If established and operated in accordance with applicable state laws for residential treatment,.

W

Programs- and we have had our county attorney- look at this definition and he is happy with it.

W

So then we're taking that new definition and then applying it to these existing definitions.

W

Again, just for clarity, so the first one is assisted living facility and it's all what we.

W

Traditionally think of as assisted living facility, we are simply adding at the end of that that an.

W

Assisted living facility- and this needs to be changed, may include a drug treatment facility.

W

That includes, I thought, I'd change that it could be. It could be together right, yes, and that's all.

W

It's pointing out so that citizens know when they see that there's a conditional use for an.

W

Assisted living facility that it may be a drug treatment facility because it may and that's.

W

Really, just what's being [music] um so, I'm I'm still on so it would be. I have an assisted living.

H

um I have five extra rooms that I could incorporate drug treatment in with that at.

H

The same time, I'm not sure if the state licensing would allow that, but the whole building could be.

W

A drug treatment facility which under federal law is yeah, I'm not sure. I don't believe that so under.

O

Our uh definition for drug treatment center, we uh require it to be licensed by the state, and I don't.

O

Believe that the state license would permit a sort of, I know like mixed use um of a assisted living.

O

Facility and a drug treatment facility in the same structure yeah, I I don't either, but I think.

H

I would like to see something about two separate, so it's nobody is ever confused. I'd agree having.

H

um We can assisted living so okay, yeah and mary. Can I ask you to go back two slides.

G

To show us where that's permitted there, this conditional use so we've got assisted living.

G

Facilities that now we're saying could could include drug treatment centers and we're going.

G

To allow those in our 40, r20 and r10 we're not now saying it we're now making it clear.

W

That they do okay, because we're not changing that they currently do. We just want everybody.

W

The commissioners want everybody to be aware that that's what that includes under federal law.

W

I get it we're not changing anything. Okay, there's a retreat facility.

D

File a federal guidelines also, I don't believe so, but consider a retreat facility. Okay, let me go to.

W

um The definition is on this slide, um a site. I guess I won't read at all, but you see at.

W

The bottom of that slide, um and what we're saying about the retreat facility to be clear, is that it.

W

Does not include the drug treatment facility. I got ahead of myself. Okay, so let me go back.

W

um So the assisted living may include and again I'll have to change that language.

W

That was original language that we were playing with, um but the a.

W

Daycare center does not include a drug drug treatment facility right, but a nursing home.

W

As assisted living may include it under federal law, so that's what we're pointing out and then.

W

A retreat facility, unless there be any confusion main, is not a drug treatment facility. So we took.

W

Those four definitions and just made it really clear what may include it and what may not include.

W

um And that's really all we have on that one. We consider this a clarification.

W

Of the code- and I know the commissioners do too- there was a bit of a lengthy discussion about this.

W

So this is another one that unless you wanted us to come back with further information on.

W

This you could send this back. We can't differ from federal law. Federal law already says you.

E

Can do it right now, it just clarifies it to whenever anybody ever wants to put an.

E

Assisted living in everybody knows that it could be a drug treatment exactly and why not.

A

All oppose it right. Why not separate the drug treatment facility, language from nursing, home.

A

Or assisted living or a sister, it just seems I mean in the used to like separated completely.

A

Yeah, if you clump it together it just because by federal law, is clumped together and and we.

W

We did discuss that, but if you put it in the use table as a separate use, you might be creating some.

W

Other problems like if someone has a conditional use for one and then wants to convert it, they have.

W

The right to convert it, but under our zoning code it would be a different use and they might have.

W

To go through a different process, so I mean jim. Do you want to speak to why you probably wouldn't.

W

Recommend that I I think um my only heartburn with the way it's currently written is so we.

H

All understand this um right: we have people that are looking to place their parents in an.

H

Assisted living, if they happen to come across these kind of definitions, and they see talking.

H

Also about drug treatment facility, they can be confused, so I just think language that clarifies.

H

Not together in the same facility, but a separate um time if we can work on that language to make it.

H

Yeah to make it clear that it's a one or the other correct right and then it's government.

W

Right, yeah, drug treatment facilities, you know also treat mental health there's so many other.

A

Yes short shoots to that compared to what a nursing, what nursing homes do, but it's different.

A

It's way different so right! Well, I I have a son who was in social work for a number of years and.

G

He worked with a facility like this and there was serious blowback from neighborhoods right.

G

Where you know, a facility may have been converted from an assisted living for primarily elderly care.

G

Dementia, those kinds of things to um kind of an outpatient care for people with.

G

um Drug dependencies there was a big difference in in terms of the neighborhood's perception of what.

G

Should be allowed there or what they thought was approved and so and again I I'm not over. We need.

G

These types of facilities, I just think being able to um manage expectations, is important.

H

I I agree, um so I I guess the question before us. Is there any public comment about that.

H

Okay, seeing none: um what is our pleasure? Do we want to see any changes before we send it up or.

H

Know that um mr altman will tweak it for us and it'll be a team effort way to go. You got this job.

H

um So what what do you all wish.

B

I I mean I, I don't know how to I. I think it needs to be separated, and I know the state says this and.

A

That, but I just it's so different from nursing home and what pete just said absolutely. You know.

A

Folks, I know saw this on our agenda and got a lot of feedback about this. That's they're just.

A

Completely different facilities, treatment processes. You know all that kind of thing.

A

um I think we're going to get a lot of blow back if we just put this lump this in with.

A

Nursing homes, I just it just- doesn't make any sense to me. Well, I think the issue is so should.

E

We state federal, they do that, so we do have to follow those guidelines. Yeah I hear you, but we.

H

Can add something um bad so do I should I can I make a motion that we add something as vegas.

A

That is, I don't know. I mean that's up to you. It's this will be referred back to the board of county.

O

Commissioners, with either favorable, as is um you could, do you know, favorable with conditions.

O

uh Which would be the new language or unfavorable, but it's ultimately up to the the board of county.

O

Commissioners to resolve the the language issue- yeah yeah, so I don't know if you you can take.

O

Another bite at this apple, where staff will go back, we'll rework the language present it back.

O

To you uh for your thoughts and comments, and then you can refer it back up, so I think I'm I'm not.

G

Ready to make a motion on this because we would like to take another look at it once it's revised.

G

And so can we table it? Oh absolutely yeah. We can come back with whatever we want to do. Information.

O

And new language, I agree, you understand the concerns. Yes, sir, and you can work on language.

A

Given our concerns, because I always think the the county commissioners would have similar and.

A

You know, let's push it back, let's try to fix it here, sure and and before gears up the flagpole.

O

Absolutely: okay, all right on two number: 18 commercial, centers, land, commercial, centers,.

W

Again, following this template we've been using, the background of this is on november 3rd of.

W

Last year, a concerned citizen in the freedom area requested that the board of county commissioners.

W

Referred the issue of second story, residential uses accessory to planned commercial centers.

W

To the planning commission for their review, you all discuss this on march 29th. It was.

W

An evening meeting um as an introduction to it and the discussions centered around the genesis.

W

And history of this use in the county code, which I'll go over again because I know we.

W

Have a few new members and it's been a while the appropriateness of it at all commercial locations.

W

And the deficiencies in the appeals process just as a reminder, this was a case you had before.

W

You that you denied went to the bza, who then approved it the possibilities of strengthening.

W

The authority of the planning commission to deny the use, as well as the imposition of.

W

Architectural design guidelines were discussed at that march 29th meeting so again the background is.

W

Planned commercial centers are three or more retail stores, service establishments, medical.

W

Facilities or other commercial uses designed as a unit and primarily served by common accessories.

W

Such as signs parking lots and walkways, this is essentially the definition of a shopping center.

W

And it's been in the code for many many years a planned commercial center is allowed by right in.

W

All three c1 c2 c3, all three commercial districts with that definition- and you see it to the far.

W

Right also, a lot of additional regulations that are in the subdivision and development code. 155.

W

So what we're talking about here, though, what was sent to the planning commission was very limited.

W

Not to look at the whole plan commercial center issue, but simply the second story accessory uses.

W

So that's what's highlighted here, an accessory use on a planned commercial center on the second.

W

Story provided the structure is not more than a total of two stories, residential.

W

Units may be provided on the second story of the structure. No residential use is permitted on the.

W

First structure again, as you can see under number two, they have to be between 600 and.

W

1000 square feet in size go through concurrency management be subject to impact fees. If they're.

W

In place and then that last number five is regarding redevelopment, which was really put.

W

In place to allow princess shopping center too, to um to create their second story, units.

W

So that's the existing code right now and that's what we're talking about number one.

W

So after the last meeting, the staff got together and talked about a.

W

So the first one is no change to the existing code. A second story residential unit between.

W

600 and a thousand square feet in size may be approved by the planning, commission and.

W

Then the approval process remains the same. The other side of that coin is to delete.

W

All together, the allowance of accessory dwellings in planned commercial centers.

W

This wouldn't have a significant impact on the ground, because there's only been two.

W

Site plans with this accessory use that have been approved, but you might want to grandfather these.

W

So they would not become non-conforming. If that's what you wanted to do from.

W

From planning's perspective, this is not consistent with the housing goals in the.

W

2018 freedom plan, which called for more diverse housing opportunities and I'm.

W

Not sure what that third bullet is indicating, I believe that it's contrary to the freedom plan.

W

um Number three add specific site requirements where this may be appropriate, and this was.

W

Something you talked a little bit about when we talked about that as staff we came up with.

W

Things like well, it should be in a designated growth area or on a major major arterial road.

W

Near other supporting commercial uses, the the problem with adding that to the code would be.

W

That would have allowed the plan commercial center that started this whole process that everybody was.

W

Objected to so that wouldn't really solve the problem at hand. Then we talked about design.

W

Guidelines, possibly including um orientation of the building to the front parking to the.

W

Back sidewalks reduced parking requirements, roofs wall, sections, varied setbacks, building materials.

W

um And I'm gonna just read this and then let laura matthias expand on it from their perspective. As.

W

The agency that would have to be implementing this design guidelines and we did look into.

W

Other jurisdictions that have them they are very difficult to interpret and enforce as their very.

W

Subjective user usually, and if they're more specific, such as specific building materials,.

W

Then they're not going to be appropriate in all cases. Staff and dark currently have the ability.

W

To recommend these changes and the planning commission already has the ability to impose.

W

Them at site plan approval, so we also believe that development of site of design guidelines.

W

Would require a great deal of staff and planning commission effort to develop and um implement so.

W

I'm going to turn this over to laura as the bureau chief of development review thanks mary welcome.

F

um Yes, so just the the key there is with design guidelines, it's subjective right. I may love frank.

F

Gary's architecture and janice may not want to use ever step foot anywhere near one of.

F

His buildings right, so we we're looking at an entire county here and it's very difficult to.

F

Establish guidelines that would be applicable throughout the county, so, um besides the the.

F

Fact the the time and effort put in there, but I don't think that we could ever arrive at a.

F

Distinct conclusion, but more importantly, when we come before you with these site plans, you.

F

Our design and architectural review committee has looked at it. They provide suggestions to you and.

F

You have a lot of authorities granted to you by the code in what direction you offer, particularly.

F

We've had these conversations lately when we come before you with a concept plan. That's when we're.

F

Looking for your distinct direction per for that plan, which direction you want it to head, and you.

F

Do you can look at the layout of the site right? You can look at the lighting, you can look at the.

F

Design you can give feedback and direction on any of those things, so we really felt that you.

F

Already had the authority to make a decisions, suggestions, recommendations that would cover.

F

These type of things that you had discussed all right since I was the one that was.

G

Vocal on this you're, not the only one yeah you're gonna take up on this a little bit.

G

um In the the two examples that we have of this, um the first one really wasn't executed very well.

G

um And that is the perception of the community of the freedom district.

G

um We sought to improve that and we actually made suggestions during the concept plan, design.

G

To the developer- and he did nothing, he didn't make a single change. I mean.

G

To I mean we made recommendations concerning landscaping, lighting, sidewalking, sidewalks and.

G

um Storm control and he came back and no changes were made at all, not a single revision. He didn't.

E

Take they they added the sidewalk in front of the building. That was it that didn't go anywhere. Yeah.

G

Yeah the sidewalk to nowhere all right, so you know the the the notion I have in my head and I don't.

G

Disagree with it every everything you say makes total sense. To me I mean it is subjective and but.

G

But if we're going to add a residential component, it shouldn't simply look like a safe way.

G

It should look a little more residential now. How do we do that, and you know I think we do.

G

That three or four different ways, I think you do it architecturally. I think we do it. I'm sorry. I.

G

Think we do it architecturally. I think we do it with landscaping. I think we do it with lighting.

G

But there needs to be some sort of acknowledgment that they're going to be people here. 24 7.

G

And- and it needs to be softer, the other thing that we need to do is is there needs to be an.

G

Accommodation of the fact that it is residential the the facility that the gentleman built.

G

There are no laundry facilities on the premises and, as a consequence, people hang their laundry.

G

Out on the balconies now you know and again that's not the end of the world, but that's not.

G

We, the freedom district, doesn't want to look like something that um has rooms. We don't want to look.

K

Like that, we don't want this to be um a slum. We we, we basically have permitted a salon. Now, I'm being.

G

I am being dramatic for impact it's not as bad as I've made it sound.

G

But it's not good laura and we can do better and again that's. I think what the what we're.

G

Asking for is, citizens is, if we're going to allow this in the code. Let's make sure that.

G

When it's executed it's executed correctly and if the bza is not going to back us up on this.

G

And it's a de novo hearing and it is- and it should be because the developer has rights. Let's tighten.

G

Up the code so that the bza has to back us up, that's what we're asking for as citizens and so.

G

um I actually turned into a pumpkin five minutes ago. I'm supposed to be in my car.

G

Am I the only one who thinks this am I am I if I am I'll I'll be quiet at all. You know.

E

My comments were at our last meeting was, is the biggest problem was? Is it is an industrial area.

E

There is assisted living across the road, but it the residential part, doesn't really.

E

Fit it really needs to fit into something I don't think there's anything wrong with them.

E

But you know the residents need to be able to go somewhere. You know, there's residents down behind.

E

Them but there's no connection with them and frankly they don't want to be connected. Those.

G

Are single-family homes? It's not like it's a partner apartment, complex back there yeah, so.

E

I think you know somehow we need to tighten it up where it needs to be built into a more of a.

E

Community type thing and not be separated by a state highway with no crosswalks. No, nothing.

E

That kids, that are going to be living in that those apartments are going to have.

E

To go to school across the road and the school bus isn't going to come pick them up they're going to have to walk across that road or their parents are about to drive. So.

E

That's awesome. I I think what I'm hearing is that we possibly aren't ready to send.

H

It up and let's see some more tightening, not sure what that would look like um the design.

H

Guidelines, I totally agree they're extremely hard to say, bless you sorry, you can do this or that.

H

um And you also have um you know the developers rights that he has as far as laundry on your.

H

um Porch that would honestly fall under the developer and any restrictions he would place.

H

In his um building, so we are limited to a degree, but I see you have a fifth option.

W

That we're not necessarily recommending as staff this would be to change it from accessory to a.

W

Conditional use similar to what we talked about you know co-locating um restaurants, with golf.

W

Courses, this is sort of a co-location of the second story, with the plain commercial center.

W

um And again, this additional step would allow for more citizen input, but we wanted to be realistic.

W

In pointing at out that it is unlikely to result in a denial exactly because the you know, they're.

W

Constrained by the schultz fee prince parameters again, I think what we want is is to tighten up so.

G

That, if it goes to bza, they at least have some indication as to what it should look feel like.

G

And where it should be, and because I mean putting this out 26, you know where there's there's not a.

G

Mcdonald's within walking distance that you can safely get to. I mean there's not a fast.

G

Food, the the the, but this isn't only for that particular parcel. It's anything this.

H

Is for any other parcels that may have more access to um other facilities, so I think.

H

I am I right in the only way it would go to bca. Currently now is for it to go there, as we did.

H

On this property correct, um so the only way to do to bza would be to change it, which is.

H

Questionable as to how that would end up.

H

So maybe developing some type of guidelines that we as a commission can put forth on.

H

I guess the architectural part may help some. I don't know the design guidelines.

W

That we were just discussing yeah, I would think I'm. I am open.

H

And pete has to go, I do, but um I think we have my comments from the.

G

The gallery I'd like to hear what they have to say and I'll be out. Thank you.

C

Hi, uh my name is bill mccormack I live in eldersburg um actually directly behind.

C

The property I'm having trouble hearing you. Can you speak a little sorry? Is this better.

C

My name is bill mccormick. I live directly behind the the property that you all have been talking about. That's currently being developed.

C

So there has been a large community response against past and current projects. I actually.

C

Had folks come out and sign a petition physically signed a petition, I got about 150 150 signatures.

C

So that means they got in their car on a cold and windy march day on a sunday and came out.

C

And signed that petition. For me, all of those signatures were against second story apartments.

C

For playing commercial centers, the community just does not want this type of project here.

C

So the argument against design guidelines is that they're subjective, but so is the.

C

Current code and we've seen how far that gets us, you know we all make a.

C

Decision, it gets appealed the bca worker stamps it and it goes forth.

C

uh And uh mr lester, I would like to correct you. uh The developer did make a change to the concept.

C

Plan he actually removed landscaping from the plan. um So I'm all well and good with folks wanting to.

C

Come in and develop develop property. um I I believe one of you said that you want folks.

C

To come in and invest in our community and I'm for that. But if you want them to invest in our.

C

Community make them invest in our community. Make them spend the money to make something.

C

That people can be proud of. That's all. I would like to say thank you. Thank you. Any other public.

L

Afternoon, kelly schaefer miller, 73 east main street westminster maryland 21157 as many of.

L

You are aware I represent mike stablas, who is the developer that everyone's been speaking about? He.

L

Has the approval at the site that mr mccormick just spoke about and the existing princess.

L

Shopping center, I just want to reflect briefly on what mary said at the introduction, which is nobody.

L

Dislikes transparency so having some kind of specific set of requirements. Nobody is.

L

Opposed to that, and nobody is asking for anything different than that. What I would request is that.

L

Anything that has been approved be protected and be grandfathered in recognizing that a drastic.

L

Shift- and you have not made any decision on what you're recommending here today and so we're not.

L

Sure what direction this is going to take, but it's worth noting that a drastic shift to this.

L

Code could result in a developer having invested millions of dollars in a community and now having.

L

A development, that's non-conforming, that's a significant impact to a developer. It's also.

L

A significant deterrent to future developments and I think that the the impetus for the plan.

L

Commercial center was to have some kind of mixed development allowance in our county.

L

If you look at our code, there's very few areas where you can have a sort of mixed development.

L

With this commercial in residential, so I I would ask that, as this progresses through.

L

The process that you keep that in mind and and again I don't- I don't think any side has.

L

An objection to additional transparency in the code. I know my client certainly doesn't it's.

L

Just a protection of that investment that has been made in this county already and.

L

That's all I'll say for today. Thank you. Thank you. Any other comments.

H

Okay, um all right, so in terms of where we're headed here um again, I would like to see.

G

You know that if we allow for residential in commercial.

G

um She figures as much if we allow for it that there be some additional.

G

Accommodations in terms of of landscaping, so that so that it looks residential and and.

G

um uh You know: traffic circulation, security, laundry facilities, all of those things need.

G

To be considered- and it's not just um a 600 square foot studio, I'm not I'm not so sure so sure that.

G

Is a sufficient size to do what what so that people can live in the manner in which they've.

I

Again, my aspirations are to what others are. I can't I can't yeah, so I got to leave that alone.

A

So, and if we, what we want is diverse housing, that's fine, but it again it needs to be.

G

Compatible with the the what what freedom aspires to be, because this is primarily going to happen,.

G

In freedom, we can talk about the county and it has to apply to the county, and I get it. The two.

G

Facilities that have been developed so far are in the freedom district and that's where I think.

G

We'll see more of it be developed, I mean I think we could see more throughout the county, keeping.

H

In mind our county planning commission right so we're speaking on behalf of I get it. Oh, the county.

H

um I I hear what you're saying and don't disagree, but I'm not sure that some of that.

H

Is in our purview to say that they have to have laundry or other things in a unit? um Is I mean.

H

They're, probably houses that are built, people don't have laundry and so may seem far-fetched.

H

But I've seen plenty. um I would like to see him maybe throw out some other guideline changes.

E

Because, like I said, I had the problem with the interconnectability of the residential part of it.

E

To where those people would be going, I mean yeah, they put a sidewalk in front of it, but the.

E

Sidewalk doesn't go up to the corner, there's no, no access to go anywhere else. I just think I've seen.

E

These projects be really nice, go to frederick they're all over the place. That's right in the.

E

Front of big residential places, but I just I didn't like where it was placed. I you know it.

E

Didn't it didn't fit the box very well, because the people that are there are kind of boxed in there.

E

They're going to have a commercial center they're going to have restaurants there, but just what's.

E

Right there and that's it yeah. Maybe we need to review what some of our surrounding counties do.

H

With their we, we have done that. I think part of the problem and.

W

We certainly can come back to you with maybe not architectural guidelines as much as site.

K

um Design guidelines, because that's where you're going the difference between us and some of what.

W

You're talking about in frederick is we don't have large mixed juice zones that we do if you're.

W

Talking about the villages of urban and some of those we don't, we just don't have that so I mean.

W

We would be different, um but we can. We can come back to you. We can work some more on.

G

This, okay and- and you know mary- that may be the direction to go because we've talked off and on.

G

About mixed use developments and whether or not we could the beady property is a prime.

G

Example, where mixed-use development would be, we were basically getting a mixed use. Development.

G

Without we were having to piecemeal it, but that's a great opportunity for us to.

G

To implement something, if we can implement it well I mean, if we put it in the code and.

G

We do it poorly, no one's going to be happy um right. I'm sorry! I have to leave and but thank.

G

You all I know I've took in more than my share of bandwidth. Thank you. Okay, all right, so you're gonna.

H

Review that bring it back to us perfect, it was a threat 19, because they're dropping like flies here.

H

The book requirements.

X

Strong remain, I guess the last text amendment is bulk requirements in the commercial zones.

X

This was referred by the board of county commissioners on may 4th and their direction.

X

Was to examine bulk requirements of commercial districts when a budding.

X

Residential districts, so not a residential use but strictly residential districts.

X

So the summary of the text amendment will be to examine whether the bulk requirements.

X

For commercial districts should be increased or decreased when abutting the residential districts.

X

Currently, in the commercial districts, the following requirements will be.

X

Observed for non-residential and group living uses in the commercial districts.

X

So the front yard has a minimum of 10 feet. Side yard has a minimum of 10 feet.

X

Rear yard has a minimum of 15 feet and then the height is a maximum of 50 feet.

X

So here's just an illustration of what those may look like. We have a note.

X

Here saying, building footprints will not extend to the setback lines due to other.

X

Site requirements such as landscaping, storm water management and parking so.

X

You wouldn't have the building going all the way to the setback requirement lines.

X

So we made a map of where this amendment would affect, so these areas circled are.

X

Areas where a commercial district, directly abuts a residential district, so obviously.

X

A lot in the freedom area on 140 between westminster and finksburg, a little piecemeal.

X

In manchester and hampstead tawny, town, taylorsville and then one right off, 97.

X

So that those are areas where this text amendment would be affecting.

X

So some options for you to discuss.

X

um This will be really on what you guys would like to see moving forward. We can have no changes.

X

To the current bulk requirements, increase or decrease the current bulk requirements and.

X

Then we can also bring back some additional information. Just tell us what you may need.

X

To aid in those discussions, whether it's mapping surrounding jurisdictions or current heights from.

X

Around the county- and we are currently working on some of this information for your discussions.

X

So I guess, if it's just anything else, that may be helpful for you guys to make a decision.

X

And that's all I have.

H

Is it possible to put this back on and earn next meeting, because we've lost at least two of their.

H

More vocal members right about this, so I'm sure they would have some input along with her other.

H

Gentleman, um we would also like to bring we're doing some research on the heights around the.

W

County, it's taking a little bit of time, but to find out how many 40-foot buildings we even have.

W

That are a budding residential, so you know what you were really working with: what the magnitude.

W

Of the problem is to be fixed. We've also looked at some options in other jurisdictions, about.

W

Well, sort of a sliding scale height to what's next to it, so we we've got some options to.

W

Bring back we're really not as proposing one or two. At this point we would like to.

W

Bring you back more information, perfect. Okay, um any comment from public on this.

Y

Hi, I'm nancy lynch 6503 carol highlands road and I think this agenda item was precipitated by the.

Y

Pushback that our neighborhood has been pushing back against the carroll highland storage facility.

Y

That was going to be 50 feet tall 100 over a hundred thousand square feet.

Y

And if I could just show on this map,.

Y

This is from the county website and we can bring it closer, but I'll just point out. This is the site.

K

Road carol, highlands road, and this is our house and we were going to be about 25 feet from the.

Y

Entrance because sha has denied access off liberty road since 2018.. So the only way all.

Y

This construction would be able to get in would be right next to our house and the developer. We.

Y

Asked- and he told us it would take about a year and a half two years of construction.

Y

We were not happy about it being there, but we were really upset about the two years of construction.

Y

um We also um believe that possibly this site was incorrectly zoned when it was part of the.

Y

Commercial re, the comprehensive rezoning that was done in 2019.. We had a town hall just on.

Y

This subject where 250 people came just to oppose this project, and many people brought up the fact.

Y

That, possibly, it was not zoned correctly when they changed it from bnr business, neighborhood, retail,.

Y

To c2 I I researched it and I have an analysis and some reasons why we think that it possibly was not.

Y

Zoned correctly, so I'd like to present that to you, maybe I could give it to laura to to give.

Y

Out to you, we also had a petition. We had over 2 000 people sign it online and over 500 people came.

Y

Just like bill said for his project better opposed to this, because it's totally surrounded by homes.

Y

So if you're looking at a number of feet, we believe that something so close to so many.

Y

Homes shouldn't be any closer than 200 feet. It should have a height requirement max two.

Y

Stories not five stories. We heard this was originally going to be 59 feet tall.

Y

So he lowered it to 50 and he's calling it four stories. It was going to have 752 units never did.

Y

A traffic study to know how much how many cars would come and trucks what kind of vehicles.

Y

During the technical review, many of those agencies denied it there's not enough site distance. So.

Y

There are many reasons that we're really glad that you are looking at the bulk requirements for this.

Y

Kind of thing, thank you. Thank you. Any other sure you want to come up to the microphone foreign.

Z

Challenged my name is audrey novak. I live at 6505 carroll highlands, road, I'm, the second.

Z

House away from the proposed project in the freedom district, I'm going to just kind of.

Z

Dovetail a lot of what nancy said, but um for the past 16 months, the residents of carroll highlands.

Z

And the surrounding communities of the freedom district have worked hard to protect and maintain.

Z

The quality of our residential neighborhood- I have been a resident there for 33 years. I.

Z

Raised three children in that neighborhood and the neighborhood has maintained the quality that.

Z

It was when, when I moved there in 1990- and I and I would love to see it continue that way at.

Z

The open meeting in march commissioner rothstein acknowledged that the magnitude of the community.

Z

Interest in the surrounding proposed storage facility project, he said that the number of.

Z

People who were in attendance you know spoke to spoke to that at that open session. Commissioner.

Z

Rothstein mentioned that the this is a quote clear facts are that the property is zoned commercial.

Z

um There's never been a question that that is the zoning other than.

Z

um What nancy brought up that? It was changed from bnr, but the fact is that it currently, it is c2.

Z

Which limits commercial product projects that are permitted in examining zoning regulation 158.158.

Z

Self storage, self-service storage facility. It seems that the regulations pertain to individual.

Z

Units not a multi-unit building that was proposed. Our commissioner spoke to the project being within.

Z

The parameters of the zoning regulations and that the commissioners had the power to adjust the law.

Z

He said that the zoning definitions were deliberate, but I feel that they are vague.

Z

And need to incorporate the difference between a one-story, self-service storage facility and.

Z

A massive five-story, 700 plus unit building that borders a quiet, residential neighborhood.

Z

um That disparity is what prince, george's county has defined in newly adopting.

Z

Their regulation that these types of storage facilities be placed in industrial zoned areas.

Z

I'm grateful that in may the commissioners voted and that's why we're here today, because they.

Z

Voted to send this back to you to have the planning and zoning commission clarify what.

Z

Constitutes a self-service storage facility in the business climate of 2023, not 1965 when the.

Z

Property was initially zoned in that process. We ask that you limit the height the distance from.

Z

Residential properties and adequate road access, as nancy mentioned, our commissioner mentioned.

Z

That the zoning needs to be adjusted for all of the county. Indeed, what happens in south carroll.

Z

As we have mentioned impacts the entire county, the parameters need to be so tight that there's.

Z

No need for interpretation and once a project goes forward, there's no turning back and if I.

Z

Can go back to some of the um parameters for the cannabis facilities talking about 400 feet from a.

Z

Residential property and no variance and that's what we want, because it seems like the parking.

Z

Variance is what started all this in march of 22. um the change and we weren't allowed to.

Z

Express any other concerns other than the parking, because we were told this was just to talk about.

Z

Parking, but from there this has grown and um we want. We want you to make the changes before.

Z

The shovels are in the ground. Thank you for your time and energy. Thank you.

H

um And I think what we're asking is that staff is going to bring it back and we'll probably.

H

Look at it more in depth next time, um not sure if it'll be the next meeting or the one after, but.

H

um Whatever works into that- and I will say since this all has come up- I've been astutely.

H

Aware of the storage facilities, so wherever I go, I'm like how high is that one that one.

H

um But I have seen that even ones that are four and five story which I just saw on the.

H

Way back from the ocean the other day, um they have very limited parking lots because the.

H

I guess the the people that use them, not everybody, jumps there, sometimes they're there in the middle.

H

Of the night early in the morning, um so it's not like it's a influx of people that do come in so I.

H

Don't think the parking lot would be as much of a concern if some of the other items were changed so.

H

um Moving on is there any additional general public comment.

H

Okay hearing none, I would entertain a motion for adjournment.

H

It's a move I'll, second, okay, all in favor, okay, all right! We will see you all next time. Thank you.

H

Mm-Hmm yeah, I know on barbie heimer week. Oh.