Carroll County, MD Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission, 3 Mar 2021

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: Planning and Zoning Commission March 3, 2021

Description

https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/planning-zoning-commission/

A

Good evening everybody I'm going to call to order the march 3rd 2021 meeting of the carroll county.

A

Planning and zoning commission can we establish a quorum? Please hi um here, mr hoff, here mr cannelli.

B

Here mr waters here miss kirkner mr lester here mr gosnell here, commissioner wamp.

C

Secretary eisenberg here and I just spoke to commissioner williams- he will be arriving.

C

Late as well, okay, thank you, mr chair. Please let the record reflect that six members are.

A

Present and we do have a quorum. Thank you. Let's stand for the pledge of allegiance.

A

Pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the.

A

Republic, for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

A

Are any changes to the agenda? No, there are no changes to the agenda this evening. It's as posted.

B

I'll make a motion for approval.

A

All in favor, aye, aye, okay, so we'll move on to item number five, the administrative.

A

Report secretary eisenberg all right good evening, everyone um thank you all for being here tonight.

C

So, just a couple things uh to make you all aware of that march is a five wednesday month, meaning.

C

That we typically would have a wednesday evening work session on the fifth wednesday of the month.

C

Which would be march 31st? um I would like to have that meeting if possible. We do have.

C

Several agenda items for that evening, however, I would recommend not having the april 7th meeting.

C

That's easter week and we will we open up for both meetings back-to-back, but I would like to have.

C

um One of the meetings, so, if that's okay with you all, we would like to.

C

Have a march 31st and unless you feel strongly, maybe not have the april 7th meeting.

C

um You're fine with that, how about everyone else again, it's spring break.

C

And people aren't doing traditional spring breaks, but it's easter week and things like that.

C

Okay, awesome, so we will do that. We will have the march 31st then evening meeting we do have.

C

Several items for the agenda um and we will not have an april 7th meeting so then, in that vein,.

C

um One of the items we're trying to do for that evening and it's an email that I sent out is to.

C

Give you all a briefing on the tiny run reservoir dam replacement. They gave a presentation to the.

C

Board of county commissioners, they are doing some public outreach meetings and, as part of their.

C

Continued public outreach effort, um we thought it would be good to invite them and they liked that.

C

Idea as an opportunity to again get out into the public and have a discussion, and let you all know.

C

What they are doing in terms of honey run um reservoir, so we saw it would be very similar.

C

To what the commissioners have presented to them last week it was really informative, and so I asked.

C

If they would like to they did so, if you are an agreement, I would like to bring them to the march.

C

31St meeting as well so we're going to reach out and try to coordinate with them. Okay, um and that.

C

Is all I have for you for my administrative report for this evening? Are any questions.

C

Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you. Moving on to item number six, the industrial light text, amendment.

A

I won the introduction of changes.

C

Yes, so on tonight's agenda, um we're going to be talking about one of two text; amendments that are.

C

Coming forward um for the i1 zone, I did send you the information, the request from shaffer.

C

And schaefer, with regard to specific property that they were interested in having this text amendment.

C

And then a staff recommendation of how we feel could be a way to apply this text amendment and.

C

Obviously, we'll go through the steps with planning, commission and the board of county commissioners.

C

um But the idea behind this text amendment is to allow for self-storage facilities.

C

Within the I-1 zone and the thought was to limit it to the sustainable community.

C

Boundaries, so if I can share my screen control room I'll just go through a quick presentation.

C

Kind of hitting the highlights, but you do have in your packet the letter from shaffer and shaffer.

C

As well as some staff research um and a proposal for the amendment itself, so.

C

C

Okay, so this is just an introduction for this evening, we'll be coming back before you have.

C

Continued discussion on this. The way you have recommendations but to go to the board of county.

C

Commissioners, so just a little bit of background information that back in december of 2020.

C

um A representative for the owner of the thingsburg tennis bar up of dd road.

C

um Requested that a text amendment be allowed for the allowance of self storage within the i1 zone.

C

So when we went through the use tables and created the tables for the comprehensive text.

C

Rezoning effort that we did as part of the implementation of the 2018.

C

uh Freedom plan and the 2014 carroll county master plan. This use was eliminated from the i1 zone.

C

So staff discussed this letter that came in with the board of county commissioners on january 21st.

C

Of this year and they recommended that this text, amendment proposal be forwarded to the planning.

C

Commission um to see what your thoughts are and to make a recommendation for the board to hear.

C

At some future point in time and again, this is our typical process um can remember the last time.

C

We've seen a text amendment planning commission that hasn't been part of the comprehensive.

C

Effort but the process is the board of county commissioners for county code must um send it to.

C

Planning commission for their recommendation. You will then forward a recommendation of.

C

What your thoughts are is in terms of the code amendment to the text and then the board of county.

C

Commissioners will host a public hearing and adopt any changes they feel are necessary to implement.

C

With necessary changes to the code, so again, as I said, this text, amendment is for the allowance.

C

Of self-service storage facilities within the i1 zone, now we spent a lot of time, effort and energy.

C

Developing our latest comprehensive rezoning effort in text amendments we.

C

Spent a lot of time with the planning commission, as well as the board of county commissioners,.

C

But, as you know, plans organic documents as well as code, and this is an area of the code that you.

C

Know this particular property. Our thought would be helpful to have a change and as planning staff.

C

One of the things that we are looking at as to where this property is located again, this is not.

C

For the specific property this just brought to our attention is to look at our sustainable community.

C

Boundary so the general thinks bird growth area is 640 acres, so the sustainable community boundary.

C

Is a much smaller boundary, it's about two-thirds of that five to 400 acres or less with it nested.

C

Within that designated growth area, this boundary was determined by working with the thingsburg.

C

Planning advisory council organization to help them have redevelopment opportunities.

C

Within the finnsburg area, this was a several year effort working with the thinkpad board.

C

As well as staff and economic development to put an application for the sustainable communities.

C

Programs, which is a state-run program that gives tools in the toolbox for economic.

C

Development and redevelopment opportunities, so I just wanted to kind of show you the boundary here.

C

And that really, it is from the reservoir area in the commercial district of maryland 140 in things.

C

For to just a little bit past 91 to the north side and then to the south side, it only encompasses the.

C

Route 91 shopping plaza and then the commercial and residential along the south side of old.

C

Westminster pike, linda is the finksburg area, the only area in the county that has that designation.

B

The sustainable community nation- no so many of our municipal, I think every municipality has.

C

A sustainable community designation within the municipality, I will say this is the only county.

C

uh Area, that's non-municipal that has a sustainable community designation. So this is.

B

The only one under carroll county are controlled from a planning and zoning standpoint. Every all.

B

The other ones are within the municipalities, okay, correct! That's what I love sustainable communities.

C

Against is to put tools in the toolbox to help with um economic development and redevelopment.

C

Opportunities, so they really are for communities that are kind of struggling in that way and that's.

C

One of the reasons we identified and wanted to work with the things for communities to give.

C

Them some opportunities to have some redevelopment potential, um some of the programs that's getting.

C

Into all of the sustainable community are facade improvements, um demolition, re-parcelization,.

C

Things to help improve the book of and we're working with them on various different things.

C

To try to get the ball rolling um and the reason again we wanted to keep it limited for this case.

C

In the sustainable community is one of the big issues in these type of areas. Are vacancies.

C

And we don't want to see vacancies of properties when a property becomes vacant.

C

Hard to maintain and keep up the buildings to cherry over time, and so what we're proposing here.

C

Is to look at maybe an adaptive reuse potential, so we have this tennis farm within the i1 zone.

C

um In the finksburg area, it may not always continue to act as a tennis barn, which is.

C

Allowed um and it's a non-conforming use in this area pre-existing non-conforming use. So how can.

C

We adaptively reuse it so not changing the look of how the building is on the outside. It's parking or.

C

Structure on the outside, but interior, allow a new use that we don't have a vacancy in an area.

C

That's already struggling with businesses, business retention in the area, so I wanted to show you this.

C

Map, so you can see how many properties this would apply to so these are all the light purples you.

C

Have the dark purple the red and then the lighter purple? Those are the um zone, i1 properties within.

C

The iceberg, sustainable area, so it would not just be affecting one property. It would give multiple.

C

Properties, the zoning next change, so the job proposal for this would be to allow the uses of.

C

Self-Storage facility in a sustainable community self-storage facilities are only permitted in the.

C

C2 and c3 again just this is a staff proposal. There's still a lot of discussion to be had.

C

um Making this a conditional use so that way we could verify the sustainable community designation.

C

And make sure it meets the adaptive reuse criteria, um so this would be the change to 158.

C

And then looking at also accessory uses in the industrial district to also allow outdoor storage.

C

Of vehicles when accessory to a self storage facility again, this is just an initial proposal.

C

And then specific uses is a self-service storage facility may be permitted in the c2c3n.

C

In the i1 district, if located within a sustainable community and then the.

C

Following conditions um still remain in place so again, just changing those two parts of the text.

C

So again, today was just an introduction, um we'll come before you again on march 16th to review this.

C

Proposal in depth and have a discussion again, you have the initial staff recommendation in front of.

C

You um and then, hopefully, on march third, first, when we do have that we can return to this topic.

C

And a possible recommendation to the board and then again follow that process of you.

C

All recommending any changes, if you like it, as is if you want to make a change moving forward.

C

If you don't want to make this change, no, you don't feel it's necessary or needed.

C

And then we'll work with the board to review and have a public hearing on this there. Any questions.

B

Linda, I'm assuming the reason why it was now to allowable use in the eye district.

B

Is because we felt like we wanted to save the industrial land for more intensive kind of uses.

B

As opposed to storage, which to me makes sense, but I totally get the adaptive uh reuse here,.

B

And you know I like, while we can't specify to a specific property, we are limiting the ability for.

B

For these adaptive reuses for existing conditions, uh existing building, which I think you know, makes.

B

Sense- and I like the idea that, if we're gonna do it, it would be a conditional uh use. So those.

B

Are just some of my initial thoughts on that? I don't know anyone else. I'd be curious. What some.

B

Of the other members think initially off of this I mean obviously we'll have time to think about it.

D

I I'm curious: has the community chimed in as to how they view this change.

C

Yeah, actually they have so we um worked very closely with the things for group um and we attend.

C

All of their meetings we did reach out to them and again they have that same sentences. They'd.

C

Rather see something filled, then vacant they do understand. They're struggling with vacancies.

C

So we've heard nothing of a positive so far from them in our initial discussions with them.

C

um So you know they haven't submitted a formal comment. Maybe we'll get that from them, but we.

C

Have not heard any negative and again you know that area, I'm sure you're familiar with it. It.

C

Is kind of sure when we're trying to work with them to find ways to redevelop and again the.

C

Reason we didn't want to open this up. I think dan to your point, is we don't want a road, then all of.

C

That work we did in the i1 zone to try to make it more industrial and not allow these uses, but and.

C

Maybe we'll broaden that, as time goes on, who knows maybe we'll make an adaptive reuse for all. I want.

C

I think there's a lot to be discussed, but this way it's a good trial too, to see how well it does work.

C

How well adaptive reuse does work um and then a controlled setting if we find that this is a great.

C

Way to move forward and we have other cases of vacancies and things like that. We can look to some.

C

Other type of proposal like this brought in maybe in this district or in other districts for filling.

C

These voids um within the community. I think it's a reasonable first step, linda definitely.

B

And I mean it's a good idea to take one step at a time and then we can always revisit it.

C

Yeah, absolutely so um again we will be back before you then next week. I'm sorry our next meeting to.

C

Have some more further in-depth discussion uh linda? I have one quick question. This is jeff.

E

We seem to be focused on self storage because that's what this building could be used for.

E

Or it could probably be used for other things as well. I assume um but self storage, typically.

E

Doesn't generate many jobs, uh there are other uses for facilities that might generate more jobs in.

E

The community is that something that look I'm not opposed to this, but um is that something that's.

E

Gone into them, uh because here this might employ two people uh if it were used for something else,.

E

It might employ many times that yeah and I think that's absolutely the discussion that we should.

C

Have in planning commission to talk about, should this be broadened or not again, the initial request.

C

For self storage, I think I can make an argument that this is a good starting place, because.

C

It takes very little infrastructure for self storage. You probably don't need to do a lot of.

C

External at all changes parking requirements. You don't need to worry about that, because.

C

You really don't have the employees or stuff it's people coming in and out of their leisure.

C

So I think yeah I think it could be broadened um or across to make the argument for right.

C

Now this may be as a good, limited use, because eventually, at some point in time like to see it.

C

Revert back to a true industrial type of use, that's a business generator when the economy.

C

Is right when the time is it so yeah? I think those are the discussions for sure to have.

A

Look since this is an adaptive reuse of existing buildings. What was the thinking behind.

A

The height limitation, there wasn't yet okay, you know we're keeping what was currently in the code.

C

For that section, and we just added that in so yeah kevin haven't discussed that in depth. Yet.

C

So that's a good point. Okay, any other questions. Well, we'll obviously be discussing this further.

A

Thank you. um Moving along to item number, seven, our community solar zoning text, amendment.

A

With the solar and ag community representatives.

F

Good evening I have, um as you know, I sent the laura percent on to you. The changes that we.

F

Made to the text since the last meeting um in response to a couple of requests that you had.

F

For additions to the text, so I'd like to review that with you quickly and then move on to. We have.

F

A couple representatives for to speak to you tonight from the ag community and solar industry.

F

To share their perspectives with you so, but if you don't mind, I want to just quickly go over those.

F

Changes that we made in response to your request, the last meeting, so um I can share my screen.

F

Sorry I have two monitors and I always have trouble getting the right thing here. We go.

F

F

So I think page six is where the first change is.

F

The bottom of page six, so you had requested that language be added.

F

That would give the the planning commission the ability to not approve a plan if it.

F

Didn't meet um the criteria of being able to keep this in an agricultural.

F

Sort of character and setting so the language that's in yellow is what was added. um Then it.

F

Basically, it says you know you want, but you can impose additional conditions on the approval of.

F

A site plan to protect the agricultural repair for the property and to lessen the impact of the.

F

Facility on the health, safety and general aware, welfare of surrounding properties and communities.

F

So that's the language that- and I worked with with jim allman.

F

To add these two additional language pieces in here, um we did want to point out that there is.

F

Language in chapter 155 that does give you the ability to do this, and I wanted to ask.

F

Laura mathias, if she could just review that with you, uh you know, we've been going through.

F

A lot of changes with the zoning code and really trying to streamline things and remove language.

F

Where it's kind of redundant or it's already covered elsewhere, so we can include this, but I.

F

Wanted you to consider what's in chapter 155, and so I wanted to just turn it over to laura for a.

F

Few minutes to go over the language: that's in there to see if you were comfortable with maybe.

F

Just using what's already in there but laura thanks brenda, can everybody hear me all right.

G

Yes, okay, great, thank you very much appreciate that never quite know so this is some, so we.

G

Come to you all very frequently, with site plans to approve right, but we very rarely do we go back to.

G

The actual text in our code, which talks about your approval authority in regards to site plans, so we.

G

Pull this up just as a reminder that you really do have an overarching the the solar is going to.

G

Be a site plan just like you would see any other site plan. Even you know any other site plan that.

G

Falls into the agricultural zoning district right school church, whatever it is, and you do have that.

G

Overarching you know if you read: b-1, approve the location and design of all site improvements. Okay,.

G

So that is you, you have that authority ensure consistency with the master plan in this chapter.

G

Right so just wanted to bring it to your attention, as brenda was saying, we're aiming to.

G

You know reduce redundancies in the code and, yes, the the text. That's in there that we've added.

G

um Definitely speaks very specifically to solar and the egg character, but this in conjunction with.

G

If you go to e 1 a where we talk about the primary use of the property and that's in the text that.

G

Brenda has already shared with you right. um The primary use of the property shall continue to be.

G

Agricultural in nature, so just wanted to bring it to your attention. It's your choice! How you.

G

Proceed with that, but you have that overarching authority when it comes to the site plan approvals.

B

Laura I I get. I you have a valid uh point, though I do like emphasizing it as well, but I.

B

Mean I think, that's something we can kind of as a commission all think about when we re-look at the.

B

Language I mean I understand what your your point is: uh you're, saying that we.

B

Already have it anyway um yeah. I gotcha um this just a question of whether we.

B

As a commission kind of want to particularly emphasize that, for a variety of reasons,.

B

um So I get you I understood. Is there someone where we can just reference the 155 site plan.

H

Requirement in here that all this is still subject to that, and then we don't have to be so redundant.

G

um I would think I mean I'm going to let brenda speak, but I would think when we go to e 1 e.

G

The very first line is slight print approval by the planning and zoning commission is required.

G

G

Just thought it was worth mentioning. Thank you.

F

Okay, so the other change that we made is on the next page under k for height limits.

F

And for most of the items in here we had no variance permitted, but for the height we left that.

F

As an option that it could be modified, and so we added the language requested to give the planning.

F

Commission the ability to adjust the height the maximum height, depending on the purpose.

F

And what agricultural use would be with it so and one of the examples I think we used last.

F

Time is is if you're going to raise cattle under the solar panels. That may not be very common.

F

But there actually is some place on maryland, 194 that that does that, and so then the panels would.

F

Have to be higher up in order to accommodate cation, so the language here was added to give.

F

You the ability to adjust it higher if, if the use was going to require it and then.

F

So that would mean that they would have to include the proposed use underneath, of course,.

F

With the site plan, um and then the language here also says that it would the planning commission.

F

May impose additional conditions on the use if the maximum height is modified.

F

And the reference from the first sentence there to 15802: this is the definitions for agriculture.

F

You have any questions on that. One.

F

The only other thing that we added wasn't actually in response to something that.

F

You had suggested, but you can see down there and am under abandonment and decommissioning.

F

um uh There's been, you know, a question raised about the disposal of the the panels uh when the.

F

Decommissioning and removal takes place, um so we just added a couple words there to say in their.

F

Proper disposal, just to you know, encourage that they might be recycled or you know done.

F

And disposed of in a way that would be um appropriate and not just like buried. You know.

F

Like landfill kind of thing on on-site, which probably doesn't happen so much but.

F

Just to be sure, so that was the other language that we that we added and that's it. I think.

F

If you had, unless you have any other questions about the text, we could move on to.

F

um Our representatives who are here to share with you tonight and answer questions.

E

This is uh jeff weathers. I just have one quick question under h.

E

E 1 h, it deals with.

E

Property owners shall be responsible for controlling and suppressing suppressing.

E

Obnoxious, weeds invasive plants and uh talks about grazing. I think grazing of farm animals.

E

And that sort of thing I'm sure I should know the answer to this question, but how? How is ongoing.

E

Compliance monitored and enforced so that it doesn't start out good, but a year from now it.

E

It looks awful and you've got giant weeds and no animals grazing or the wrong kind.

F

Right well, because this is approved by a site plan. It can be enforced through our zoning office and.

F

um So j white is is on. If you, if you um you know, if you want to add anything jay but.

F

Essentially, the zoning office is complaint driven. So if a complaint comes in that it's you know not.

F

Being maintained as it's supposed to be, his office can go investigate and take enforcement action.

F

Jay, did you have anything to add? uh Basically brenda you carried everything uh like you say,.

I

If it got out of hand- and someone complained about it, we would give it to the property owner.

I

Tom is in violation, give him a chance to correct it. If he didn't correct it.

I

um But then we could take him to court to force him to correct it.

B

And also he's jeopardizing his site plan approval. Was he not by not following the terms.

I

Eventually, yes, it gets to that point yes, but that that would be one of the last very last.

I

Steps we would get to yes gotcha, but we have that ammunition as well. Okay, good! Thank you.

F

Any other questions before we move on.

F

Okay, so I'm gonna stop sharing my screen here.

F

All right, and um so we're going to start with the agricultural community.

F

We have um harry sellers with us tonight, who is the president of the.

F

Carroll county farm bureau- and he also serves on the agricultural commission,.

F

I've asked each the the mr sellers, as well as a representative from the solar community to.

F

Give us about five minutes worth of just you know their perspective on this specifically on.

F

This amendment and then you know, um take questions from you um for maybe another 10 minutes or so.

F

Just to give like a time frame about what we were shooting for.

F

So we'll start with mr sellers- and I think um bill rash is also was intended to.

F

Be joining us and he is also on the farm bureau. um I'm not sure whether he is on or not, but.

F

Harry if you would like to turn your camera on and share some, you know the perspectives.

F

That you have you know the agricultural community has we're ready to hear from you.

J

Okay, can everybody hear me.

B

Yes harry: we can hear you, okay, all right, I'm not as uh up on all these zoo meetings.

J

As you are, but I'll try my best here um again, my name is harry sellers from the.

J

uh President of the carroll county farm bureau- and we just have had a recent.

J

Meeting with our members back, this fall.

J

And unanimously everybody seems to be opposed to these solar panels on the.

J

On any ag land, if we, I know that that's a broad thing to say you know you just can't say no, but.

J

um I know that puts you in a hard place of uh how you got to do things, but you know a couple concern.

J

Concerns are you know what happens to these solar panels when the project's over you.

J

Know or um you know what, if you go from these two megawatts, you know what if they want to go with a.

J

With a bigger 4 megawatt or six megawatt, you know just some concerns like that. um um You know the.

J

The noxious weeds, you know there that could be a problem. They also say that some of these.

J

Panels are, can have poisonous or toxic waste leak out of them. I don't um you know, and then the other.

J

Thing is a lot of our you're talking about ag remainders. You know the that could be as much.

J

As 19 000 acres in the county on ag remainders now that you've opened it up to um larger acreages and.

J

The other thing is, a lot of our um farmers also rely on some of these ag remainders. You know.

J

The not everybody has a hundred acre field. We, you know, a lot of our operations are made up of.

J

Many smaller plots- and you know that- would jeopardize different operations.

J

So you know just just uh wanted to voice our opinion and let you know that we're.

J

Opposed to any of these um solar community solar projects on ag land, I don't know if.

J

You know we could come up with other ideas, maybe some county land or over commercial.

J

Irv parking, lots or something you know. If there's anybody has any different ideas to come up with.

J

Yes, can you still hear me yeah, we can hear you harry. Did you have anything else to add.

J

No, I think that's that kind of covers everything. Just you know also sitting on the ag commission.

J

Board they were, they were also adamantly opposed to using ag land for community solar. I know.

B

Perry you're breaking up a little bit. What were you saying.

B

The government kicked it down to the states, the states and.

J

The counties on there that put you all in a position where a few alternatives anyhow.

J

Well, that's all I got for this evening. I.

J

Don't want to take any questions if you have any questions back for me, then well, I I have a couple.

B

Questions that I'll just kind of jump into um you know a couple of the concerns you mentioned.

B

uh You know what happened when what happens when the solar panels are no longer in use of.

B

Course the text amendment we're looking at is providing uh for the bonding of their removal.

B

And, of course, this proposal is only limited to two watts and four or six watts is not allowable.

B

And, of course, we just talked about the provisions regarding the the noise.

B

And the I mean the weeds and the noxious um noxious weeds. I haven't heard the hazardous waste.

B

Thing that's an interesting thing. I'd like to know more about um was one of the concerns regarding.

B

uh Some of the farmers losing uh land that they're renting to solar panels. I I would.

B

Assume that's one of the concerns that you're kind of implying is that one of the concerns.

B

Kerry you there. Oh could you repeat that question again, I didn't catch all.

J

It was one of the concerns american membership regarding uh losing land.

B

uh Or are prices going up on what you guys pay for your you know for renting ag lane.

B

Brenda, I don't know whether he maybe lost him.

F

Art just says my neck is still on, but yes, that is one of the things that he raised as a concern. Okay,.

F

Harry you still, there.

F

Not I can't even ask him if um he had anybody else with him tonight. uh Would you like to move on to.

F

Our our solar representative and then we can come back to harry later, to see if he's.

F

Back on, I, I would just like to say you know before we move on to the to the industry. I I.

D

Understand their concerns um as fully as we can and since we're having some technical difficulties.

D

If, if they would like to submit something in writing, I would love to read it.

D

um Because again, I just want to make sure we are making decisions with as much.

D

Information as we can- and that was the whole purpose of this, so if there's something that.

D

That he was trying to communicate that we did not hear, and I think there may have been um I'm happy.

D

To read something: if he wants to send us, pardon me if he wants to send us something. Excuse me.

F

And I will suggest that to them that they do provide something in writing as well.

F

Okay, so I guess we could move on then um the.

F

The other person I've invited is uh leslie elder. She represents the um coalition for community.

F

Solar access, which is raven ava's advocacy group, as opposed to like a private solar developer.

F

And I bet this same, you take a few minutes just to share the industry perspective on.

F

The zoning text amendment and then take some questions. Leslie are you there? I see she's on.

K

Can you hear me okay, all right great. um I share your perspective. I would have loved to hear more.

K

From harry um and and his concerns particularly, but I uh I thank you for the opportunity to.

K

Address this forum today, I'm leslie elder I'm the mid-atlantic director for the coalition.

K

For community solar access, I'm charged with opening and maintaining markets, community solar.

K

Markets in maryland, new jersey, pennsylvania and virginia I'm also a member of the farm bureau and.

K

A member of the american polar grazing association, as well as a commodities crop farm owner in campus.

K

So, just as a reminder, ccsa is a national trade association representing innovative businesses.

K

And nonprofits working to expand customer choice uh through community solar. We have 35 members.

K

In in maryland, and we really work with our members to implement best practices from the start to.

K

Finish so ccsa appreciates the planning and zoning commissions thoughtful approach to community solar.

K

Siding we recognize that this process is a critical aspect of preserving valuable.

K

Natural resources for residents and for future generations in our experience in other counties.

K

In maryland and neighboring states, community solar offers a unique opportunity to preserve.

K

Land provide agricultural benefits, bring economic benefits to community and landowners, and then.

K

Provide access to clean energy with consumer savings to those who can't currently access it.

K

So currently there's 75 percent of american households and businesses who cannot access.

K

Solar benefits because of financial and physical barriers to entry, so community solar allows anyone.

K

Who pays an electric bill to gain access to clean the clean energy economy by subscribing to a solar.

K

Facility for their portion of the energy they consume through a subscription community, solar.

K

And a community solar provider, the customer will receive a credit on their bill for the.

K

Savings generated from that shoulder additional additionally, community solar.

K

Could bring about 1.5 million to 3.2 million in economic benefits to the county in the next.

K

Three years of the community solar pilot program alone and approximately 400 to 600 000 in consumer.

K

Savings, these economic benefits include lease payments to landowners and farmers direct and.

K

Indirect jobs, increased property taxes for the county and more money in consumers pockets. Lastly,.

K

Community solar can help farmers and landowners and the county resist permanent development.

K

Pressure to keep farmers farms working for future generations. This really can be a win-win-win.

K

Community solar is developed to be a low impact, low locally cited energy where.

K

Companies intentionally work with the county and community members to suit the individual needs.

K

No two community solar sites are the same, and they must be carefully designed to meet multiple.

K

Layers of federal state and local regulatory requirements, this includes decommissioning and.

K

State bonding requirements, furthermore, the land that hosts the facility is leased from the land.

K

Owner and therefore the community organization must meet the needs of the community, we feel.

K

Strongly the community solar, when it's done right, works hand in hand with preservation.

K

And as this vpa has already identified, there are many ways that solar and agricultural.

K

Production work in combination together through pollinator habitats, grazing and other means.

K

Again, we really thank you for consideration of the vta and we seek clarity on just a couple of things.

K

In the current version, including uh being limited to the remainder parcels uh and the undefined.

K

Requirements for the permanent conservation easements uh first by limiting solar, siding.

K

To the remainder parcels, community solar developers will be limited in their ability.

K

To identify the best sites that are best suited for solar and where landowners are willing to.

K

Host an array we strive to build projects that use industry best practices for environmental.

K

Protection land, preservations grid interconnection and cost-effective energy distributions to best.

K

Serve customers restricting site eligibility to only remainder parcels prevents optimal, siding and.

K

Predetermines which landowners can host a community solar facility? Well, it's reasonable.

K

For the county to move deliberately when allowing for community solar in the agricultural zoning.

K

District, a reasonable approach would be to put a limit on the total number of impacted acres.

K

That would be allowed rather than try to identify eligible sites via the zoning code, this one that.

K

Should be significantly below the third, the 3500 acres, that is already suggested in the current cta.

K

In addition, we have uh two key concerns around the requirements of the conservation, easements.

K

Which have not been defined under the zpa. The first is related to the payments.

K

And the second second is under the required for the duration.

K

Regarding payments, our understanding is that the county management program typically works by.

K

Providing compensation to landowners in exchange for establishing easements in the case of this apa.

K

If the developers expected to lease the project, uh it is expected to compensate the landowners for.

K

These easements, in addition to the hormonal payments under the solar, solar lease, the.

K

Project will quickly become uneconomical to build regarding duration conservation.

K

Easements typically run in perpetuity, and it is our experience in other counties in maryland.

K

uh As well as other markets, landowners tend to be skeptical about these easement requirements.

K

Resulting in a decreased interest and participation in the program without such a.

K

Requirement only one in 20 of the suitable solar sites typically have a landowner interested in.

K

Participation, this easement provision may decrease the interest even further. So in summary, ccsa.

K

Recommends two key adjustments to the proposed language rather than restricting community solar.

K

To remainder parcels, we recommend placing a limit on the number of acres that would be impacted.

K

Which leads to optimal sighting and landowner participation. In addition, ccsa respectfully.

K

Requests that the county remove the requirement of conservation easements has a condition of the zta.

K

Which will allow projects to remain economically viable and will remove the potential barrier for.

K

Interested landowners to pursue community solar overall, we are incredibly supportive.

K

Of the county's intentionality surrounding the solar sighting and we'll be glad to.

K

Collaborate uh with you and the agricultural community on a workable solution. Thank you.

B

Leslie, um I have a question or two: we received some feedback um regarding that right now, the.

B

Way, it's written that it would only be able to be used by residential customers, uh and the idea was.

B

Brought up that, it should be brought in to include the ag industry, non-profit and governments by.

B

Changing the term is that something that your that your industry group is supportive of as well.

K

So yes, we would be supportive of that, although I will say that that is not something that I am an.

K

Expert on, um but it is a uh it's, those projects are still regulated to be under two megawatts and.

K

I think that they provide a lot of benefits for the agricultural community government facilities.

K

And nonprofits, okay, then the other question is sort of a technical question. um You know.

B

When you build a solar array, I'm assuming that that could impact what your property taxes are.

B

Because your assessment goes up, so how does the lease with the landowner.

B

Typically, provide for who pays for that. Additional property tax is going to be charged because of the.

B

Assessment going up for those improvements: how does that work generally yeah? That's a really.

K

Great question so all of the property tax increases, um as well as any of the real tax.

K

Increases are the uh the cost of the developer themselves and not the cost of the landowner. So.

K

uh The really what the landowner does is that they lease a small portion of their land and then.

K

They're able to cash a check- and I this can also answer some of the other questions that you guys.

K

Were referring to earlier, which is uh maintenance of the facility? um So if there's obnoxious, weeds.

K

Or a solar developer is not doing what they want. The land owner actually has the ability to hold.

K

The solar developer accountable because they are responsible for everything within that fence line.

K

Including all of the the taxes and fees does the county build you typically in.

B

I guess some counties or or states could be different, but they don't build you separately for.

B

The improvements on that land do they, or does that, come through the property owner's taxes.

K

You know, I don't actually know the answer to that, but I can get back to you with the answer to that.

K

Probably quickly yeah, I think that's a great question just in you know, writing I'm just kind.

B

Of curious yeah, I'm happy to, I may be able to get that to you before the end of this meeting.

D

Leslie earlier we had a question raised and I had never heard it before that. There's some toxicity.

D

Issues that could be associated with solar panels. I mean: are you aware of anything like.

D

This does it leach into the soil. Does it impact future use? What what concerns should we we be.

D

Aware of uh regarding that yeah, I'm I'm aware of these concerns, there's been a lot of scientific.

K

Studies that have actually debunked this, uh this theory, which I'm happy to share with you.

K

um I I do understand the the absolute concern of uh farmers, in particular, of wanting to take care.

K

Of their land uh happy to share those studies over with you, but uh from all of our experience.

K

And and the studies that have shown that that's just simply not true, if you could share that.

B

Information, if you have, I mean absolutely, you know not, you know, don't send us a hundred studies but.

B

Some background on that, because that is an interesting point that was brought up.

K

Happy to I can even provide you a summary with links, so you can just get the snapshot and then.

K

If you want to read further you're welcome to that'd be great yeah, so this is jeff. I have.

E

Just a couple questions one thing I had raised before maybe I was.

E

A little bit unnecessarily harsh when I said that I think these uh these solar panels and.

E

Agricultural land are ugly, uh but I do think they are um and uh rained me in a little bit. He said.

E

Well, they look a little. I think industrial, I think, was a was a more euphemistic term.

E

um I still think that, though, when I look at a agricultural vista- and we have some very nice.

E

Ones here in this county, the idea of looking out and having that basically corrupted by these.

E

By these panels uh causes me heartburn, I don't like that so um so, while I hear.

E

uh That we can have some, I hear the positive attributes and I'm not um uh diminishing what.

E

You've said about that, I still have a hard time getting past the fact that part of the.

E

There are many reasons why this county tries to preserve agricultural land, but one of them is.

E

That it's part of the character of our county and part of the character is how it looks.

E

And uh having these having this vista, interrupted with these things, troubles me.

E

um So I'd be interested in speaking, you speaking to how. How can you make me feel better about that.

E

And sort of related to that is, the notion is: do we are you aware of these community solar projects.

E

In um places other than agriculturally zoned land, like commercial or industrial.

E

Zones, yeah sure uh so I'll take the first part of your question and then the second. If you're.

K

Okay with that, uh so as as far as this is I again, I appreciate that um going back to being.

K

Being a farmer, I think that that's an important thing, one of the things that we can do is work.

K

Very closely with with you all on making sure that we can fight solar again in places that.

K

That both meet environmental theaters and then the interconnection standards also, we can put.

K

Trees up, we can do all sorts of things in order to ensure that we're not uh impeding the the.

K

Visual views based off of the recommendations of the planning commission, as as far as the other.

K

Other sites that you can do solar, I mean we believe that it's an all-of-the-above approach.

K

um One thing that I do just want to without going down a massive rabbit hole. One thing.

K

That I do want to say about maryland. I think that there's lots of things that maryland has done very.

K

Right specifically with the the community solar program, one thing that was not addressed by the.

K

Legislature is the incentives in order to be able to uh make a lot of the community solar facilities.

K

Incredibly, economical on some of the commercial sites, they're just uh significantly more expensive.

K

Which is something we can talk about to weave those needles, but I just want to be very honest.

K

About that leslie one other question I have um and you don't you know, a range is fine, but I want to.

B

Get a sense of you know, at least in the state of maryland, and what your other experience has been.

B

As a landowner, if I you know, I'm assuming I'm paid by the acre on an annual basis, is that correct and.

B

What is the typical did, you say correct that is correct by the acre. Yes, what is the you know.

B

And it can be pretty broad, but what is the range of what that rent is per acre yeah? I mean uh that.

K

Is a very hard question for me to answer, because it depends on on a lot of a variety of factors.

K

But a good planning, a planning tool is around. You know between 400 and a thousand dollars an acre.

K

Depending on a wide variety of things, so without specifically looking at carroll county, um which.

K

I'm happy to do. I can't give you an exact number on that, but generally that's where things are.

B

Well, if you find any, if you have any more detailed information on that, uh you know.

B

Maybe follow up with that would be some additional information yep happy to do that. Okay, thank you.

A

One of the things the farm bureau had mentioned is right. Now it's at two megawatts.

A

Do you see that the there's a potential that these community solars would move to larger facilities.

A

Besides, okay yeah, so at this this point in time uh we are legally uh mandated to be two megawatts.

K

Or less uh the community solar pilot program will maintain that, but there's only three years.

K

Left in the community solar pilot program, um after that there would be a legislative change.

K

In annapolis, that would be required to extend that program out uh at that point in time.

K

I think considering all of the the recom all of the concerns that are had with the agricultural.

K

Community, in particular in maryland, I don't see that we would be moving beyond that. We do have.

K

A good relationship with the farm bureau at the state level and we've had lots of conversations.

K

With them- uh and so I think that we would, we would not be pushing for that, at least not at this time.

A

No other questions, I think thank you that was very helpful. Leslie.

A

Absolutely my pleasure, I will follow up with all of those questions, for you.

A

Brenda did you want to do anything else, or I know we also have time for public comment. I don't know.

A

If there's any callers on that also want to express some additional thoughts on this yeah.

F

It appears that harry is no longer on, so I think that we're done with what we had wanted to cover.

F

And um yeah, so you probably should go ahead and move on to taking comments. Then I do see one call.

A

um Yeah, if we can unmute the uh the callers that are on.

A

On the line, if anybody has called in or would like to make a public comment, go ahead at this time.

L

All right, yes, this is jake springer. Can you hear me? Okay? Yes, we can great thanks. This is.

L

Jake springer with the company nexamp, I spoke in front of the commission previously on the phone.

L

But we're developer, volunteer owner and operator of community solar in maryland once again pleased.

L

To see the commission considering allowing for the development of community solar in carroll county.

L

And I think I really would echo some of the things that leslie from ccsa had to say tonight.

L

And then we have some concerns about the the current approach, in particular the focus on.

L

Remainder parcels within the county is the only partial is eligible to host community solar.

L

You know I really respect and appreciate the work that's gone into this already and I know the idea.

L

Here is, to start small start conservatively, but you know respectfully. I think this isn't the best.

L

Way to do that, I think, given all the factors that go into solar sighting, you know the commission.

L

Shouldn't try to pick sort of the eligible sites via the zoning code um and essentially you know.

L

As we see at this proposal, would would try to shoehorn solar into specific parcels that the.

L

Commission has selected via the zoning code, you know finding the best sites for solar is what.

L

Companies like nexamp, my company, do for a living and we know to find sites that know how to find.

L

Sites that work from an environmental perspective from a you know, electrical grid perspective.

L

With the community and with you know, willing landowners, um so I I hope the commission will.

L

Take a look at maybe a different approach and to use a neutral standard like what I think leslie.

L

Was was talking about where you could have a total cap on the acreage and that might better balance.

L

Some of these concerns about bringing solar into the agricultural areas of the county and.

L

You know allowing for effective and sort of you know: well-sighted community, solar development.

L

And I think that approach would require far fewer acres to potentially be.

L

Impacted than the current proposal, so I really appreciate the opportunity to speak. Thank you.

G

Thank you. um Do we have any other? It looks like we do have another caller on the line.

A

If anybody else would like to make a public comment, go ahead at this time.

M

Hi- and this is amber lee young with community power group, um can you all hear me? Yes, we can hi.

M

um Thank you so much for the opportunity to comment tonight and um I appreciate.

M

The planning and zoning commissions, and also the staff fullness in this process.

M

We are a community solar developer. We also develop net metering systems across the united states and.

M

We're also a ccsa member, so I just really want to say I appreciate leslie's comments tonight and.

M

Appreciate her representing our industry, I also wanted to comment on mr hoff's question regarding.

M

Aggregated net metering facilities and the um we wanted to reiterate our suggestion that the.

M

Community solar zoning text amendment is expanded to allow these types of facilities which.

M

Specifically benefit the agricultural industry, nonprofits schools and governments within maryland.

M

On the way, the community solar pilot program is designed in maryland.

M

No one energy user can subscribe to more than 60 percent of the system's electricity output.

M

Which likely prevents large institutions like schools and agricultural entities from signing up.

M

To the output of these systems so adding a meter aggregation under the code of maryland 2050-1007.

M

To the zoning amendment under the definition of solar energy generating system would allow.

M

Specifically, these types of institutional users to experience the benefits of the solar under.

M

The same type of system, size requirements and other restrictions as the facilities.

M

Under the community solar pilot program, so we feel that it's a simple text change that will widen.

M

The potential benefits of the zoning amendment, while retaining the same proposed size and design.

M

Limitations for agricultural parcels, but uh thanks for the opportunity to comment- and we appreciate.

M

It thank you, uh I don't think we have any other callers on the line. um Brenda the one thing about.

A

The remain remaining portion, I believe that was the directive from the commissioners correct.

F

That's right, um the commissioners directed us to look specifically at remaining portions and they.

F

Also directed us to include the easement as a part of this um as a part of what we built into this.

D

Is there a strong rationale behind that, or was that just an outlying thought.

F

Well, I one one of the things that it would accomplish, and this isn't necessarily what the.

F

Commissioners said, but one thing that that the easement would accomplish is um that one of the.

F

Things that agriculture community was concerned about was the possibility of expansion of these.

F

Facilities in the future now um it is true that right now they are capped at two megawatts.

F

And so they they can't expand at this time if they are built to their full capacity. um That doesn't.

F

Mean that state law couldn't change, but um so the part of the idea with the easement is it. Would it.

F

Would keep that expansion from happening? You know if, if you build to the full two megawatts and and.

F

Then, under this amendment we also kept the area at 20 20 acres, so this would address the community's.

F

Concern of potential expansion of those facilities in the future, so that we don't have.

F

You know facilities that continue to expand larger and larger in the future, um but I believe that.

F

Then, commissioner, wants or tom can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe part of the.

F

Reason the commissioners requested the easement to be included in this. Is um you know right now.

F

These properties don't have the ability to do solar because it's not allowed in the ag zone and.

F

They've already used their residential development rates, so using you know being able to do this.

F

Would give the county the opportunity to expand the amount of land we have under preservation?.

F

While giving these property owners the opportunity to do something that they don't have now.

B

Brenda um as someone who's worked a lot with ag easements I I guess I have a couple thoughts on.

B

You know the the easement idea and and not for us to decide anything tonight.

B

Obviously, but you know the thought has occurred to me, you know in exchange for putting you know these.

B

Solar panel arrays, uh in my mind you know 50 years from now. I don't think they're going to be there.

B

Because I think the technology is going to change in such a way that you know I might have one.

B

Panel on the side of my house that runs my whole house. uh Technology is changing very quickly, so.

B

I I well, I think this is a good step. You know 30 40 years down the road. These solar panel.

B

Arrays with community solar isn't going to be there but yeah in exchange for the ability to put.

B

On uh these solar panels, we as county are asking for a permanent easement.

B

And I just want to throw out the idea or the concept that you know not all easements. uh You.

B

Know at the ag preservation easements have a long history, uh some especially early on.

B

Some of the easements had a lifespan. You know it could be, um it could be. You know, 50 years, um so I.

B

Understand the desirability for the easement and of course it helps, gets us towards our goal.

B

But I also under understand the indigestion of that we're. You know it's a temporary use.

B

But yet we're taking the easement forever and I understand quote it's a remainder. But what.

B

Is everybody still there yeah? So I understand it's a remainder, but you know zoning does change over.

B

Time and it could be, you know, 50 years from now, uh remainder parcel might have a different ability.

B

To have something done to it, so I do have some consternation about the idea of these easements.

B

Being permanent in exchange for this- and I have some question about really- you know.

B

How many people are going to want to sign up for this? If that's going to be one of the conditions.

D

So so that dan is, is it your thought that the the easement would be um would expire.

D

Or or um revert you know given up, I guess would go away expire whatever you want to say you.

D

Know as soon as the decommissioning of the solar panels or the economic life of the the solar array.

D

uh Was exhausted and and and the the solar panels were decommissioned, then the easement would.

D

Go away is that what you're thinking that's one possibility? Another possibility is that you simply.

B

Make it for a a a long enough period of time like 50 years and call it a day at a certain number.

B

It's just a thought. I again it's something I think we should all be thinking about uh between now and.

B

As we continue to look at this proposal, I mean there's a lot of different things going on here.

B

um But I do you know this is a temporary use and I don't think these community solar.

B

Arrays are going to be around 50 years from now. I you know might not be here to see it.

B

But I I just don't think they will be so, but yet in exchange we're taking a permanent use.

D

In my mind's eye, there are three things you know: if we decide to approve this and I'm.

D

Generally, in favor of it I'll just say it out loud, I think, having alternative forms of energy is not.

D

A bad idea, um uh but but that's my pre, that's my predisposition, but I do think that there are three.

D

Questions that I really am not sure what I think about on and that and I could be slayed it is the.

D

Easement then, and I think, you're bringing up a great kind of middle ground solution. I actually.

D

Don't think it has to be 50, I think it ought to be satisfied when again, when it's decommissioned.

D

The easement goes away, I mean again because I see them being connected um so that that's one thought.

D

Is how do we treat the easement? The second thought is: who can benefit from this? You know: do we allow.

D

Governments, schools, um commercial properties to to benefit from it. I think that's the second and then.

D

The third one is that is the are: are we going to limit it to these remainder ag, properties and and.

D

Again, I I need help understanding. You know the pros and cons of those three things, because I.

D

Really don't have a strong feeling, one way or the other. I do want to understand why we wrote this.

D

The way we did because there's obviously rationale to it, um but but again I think those are the three.

D

Things that, in my mind, I really don't understand well enough to say this is how I feel about it.

N

If, if I could, if you are all right with me kind of jumping in here, because I can, I can.

N

Maybe this is tom douglas again I could probably be. Can you all hear me first.

N

Yes, because I've had problems with my computer lately, um so let me address some of the concerns.

N

Mister listed you brought up uh first uh regarding the length of the easements, and all I mean our our.

N

Current ag easements are all permanent easements and I know mr huff you're right. Some of the early.

N

Ones were limited in their, but but there's a big butt to that in order to get out of one of.

N

Them early ones, it's almost impossible. It's it's very hard. You have to go through a very laborious.

N

Process through the local board, the state board and then basically what you have to do is pay back.

N

The value of the easement as it is now not as you purchased it, so it's a very difficult process to.

N

Get out of some of those early easements, unlike now again, everything we do now is permanent.

N

There's no time limits on them so um to actually take this purpose of providing a permanent.

N

Easement, which the board directed us to look at um and turning it into a uh unlimited term.

N

Limited easement doesn't make any sense, um because the direction from the board was that we could.

N

Provide permanent preservation easements in relation to this solar development. Now one.

N

Thing to keep in mind is that the 20 acres that they're doing solar on is not going unreasonable.

N

So when, when they're done, the solar that will have the ability to do whatever the zoning.

N

Allows it to do there all right and that's a very important thing, so they're not giving up.

N

Everything on the entire property and I would say, yeah if you got 120 acres and you're going.

N

20 acres of sword, 100 acres of preservation- that's something! Probably someone is going.

N

To think about, if somebody sits in there with 25 or 30 acres, 20, acres of solar, 5 or 10 acres.

N

Of permanent engagement that might be a good trade-off because they're going to have 200 acres.

N

When they come out of the store to do whatever the zoning allows them to do. At that point,.

N

So I think those are some of the things you have to say and those are some of the things that.

N

Fears are not making a choice, then, and really to tell you the truth. Whenever we do zoning.

N

We do the same. We do the same for everybody for everything you just went through a process.

N

Of a rezoning process with properties- uh and you were picking properties and not picking properties.

N

To do change, zonings on and change the values on and that's what this learning is about.

N

With everything that we basically do, um so you know take those things into consideration.

N

And and the board of commissioners with in regards to the remainders, the remaining portions excuse me.

N

uh The board was very clear and direct to us. They wanted to start small. They wanted to do this.

N

As a pilot, they didn't want to get to it over their heads with solar at this point in time,.

N

They wanted to make sure that they were looking at it in a limited capacity, seeing how it goes.

N

Coming back later and expanding it, if they, if they needed to, so that that was a very specific.

N

Direction to us about using the remaining portions, the other fact is again: they are developed.

N

um They're not they've, taken away the residential development there, and thus they have been.

N

Developed in some capacity so putting things solar on. That was uh something that I think.

N

The commissioners felt was very logical to maybe pursue because you weren't, taking an agricultural.

N

Piece of property that has not, you know, taken any development on it and and basically converting.

N

It to the solar all right- um and there was a final point I wanted to make too.

N

Boy I ran out of juice here, so give me a second. Maybe I can come back to that one, but those are.

N

Some of the pertinent points that we had discussions with the board- and I just want.

C

To have a lot of good conversations like you're gonna having I'm gonna, have.

N

On this issue, so uh you know those were very clear: you know directions they gave us. Oh, I want.

N

To address the net metering, that's been brought up. I think that's something that we instead.

B

Tom you you're, muted, you want to expand it because again, we talked solely to them.

N

And we had discussions solely about community solar, and this is not really labeled community.

N

Solar, so what I would make sure is the commissioner fully on you're, muted again tom.

C

I'm just really tom collects his thoughts. I just want to add on to what he was saying.

C

That again, this is a small pilot type of study. As you know, as we move through the commercial.

C

Industrial employment campus we're working on residential. Now we are still looking at.

C

Text amendments to the conservation of ag zone. So if this works in a certain way- and you want.

C

To move forward, maybe expanding. That could also be the time to talk about yes or no. um As far as.

C

Making changes to ag for these types of solar uses in the future. So again we still have that.

C

That we're working on just wanted to throw that out. There I see tom over where brenda was so maybe.

N

I'm sorry, that's the fourth time in about a week, I'm very frustrated with it. um So I'm not sure.

N

How much you heard? Oh my gosh and I don't know if I can repeat it all, but um we did have very.

N

Specific discussions on a lot of these topics with the board, and so um we can certainly provide any.

N

You know follow-up on anything that you might need the one thing I did. The other thing I thought.

N

About that I wanted to say mr huff regards to what you brought up about 50 years from now.

N

I would say there's a very much likelihood that uh that two megawatt solar field on that 20 acres may.

N

Turn into a you know: 100 megawatt solar field on 20 acres, because I suspect those panels are going.

N

To get a lot smaller and more efficient, and so, instead of growing in size, they're going to be.

N

They're going to be reducing in size and being able to do something a lot greater on on that.

N

Small piece of parcel so another reason why it might be good to start out small here. You know.

N

Maximize these acres that we have with the intent that maybe the industry, the panels are going to.

N

Grow smaller, we may not ever have to expand on greater acres. So that's a scenario you may want to.

N

Consider or think about too well tom, that's a good point that that you're right uh it could exist.

B

It just might exist in a very different form um and it might power off a lot more um tom. Thank you.

B

For kind of filling in some of the perspective, um while not to put commissioner cancel on the spot.

B

But I I would, since he's here like to ask him, you know, because understanding perspective of what the.

B

Commissioners were thinking is important and, at the end of the day, we're making a recommendation.

B

Because they're going to be making the final decision here anyway, just to clarify that board.

B

That's how tech cement works, we're just reviewing it, brainstorming it and making a recommendation.

B

But while I got commissioner lance here, um did you have anything that you wanted to add or did.

B

Tom pretty much kind of cover everything from a thought process of what you guys were thinking.

O

No, I think both tom and brenda uh dan first of all good evening, everybody nice, to see everybody.

O

uh Dan, I think both brenda and and uh and tom uh covered what I.

O

I would have said I I what I was going to focus on and tell everyone that this. This is a pilot.

O

uh This is a pilot program for us and I think I don't want that to get lost in the in the.

O

Translation here, because, as you hear from all of these energy companies that are calling in here.

O

uh You know they've got these grandioso ideas of don't tell us where, to put it, we'll tell you.

O

Where to put it, and that's just exactly what I don't want to happen here, that's why I want you.

O

Guys to engage and your conversation tonight, pete dan uh jeff, your questions, uh all of your.

O

Questions have been great jeff. I concur with you on the the beauty of these systems. uh I I.

O

I'm right there with you, my friend, because I I've often said that, and you know the thing to keep in.

O

Mind here is you know at the beginning of this year, of course, this is in the middle of code too.

O

uh The u.s energy information administration predicted that solar, along with wind.

O

Would represent more than three-fourths of all the new energy added to america's grid network.

O

So this isn't going anywhere anytime soon uh and- and I haven't been able- we've been a little bit.

O

Busy lately dan, as you know, but I haven't had a whole lot of chance to dig into this.

O

But tom's spot on, I don't think we're ever going to see the panels go away. What I've read is that.

O

They're going to get a lot smaller and become more intense as a result of that and I've been doing a.

O

Little bit of work on that as well because, as you guys know, uh with my background in public.

O

Safety, there's always been this challenge with the uh with the rooftop arrays, because they are.

O

Incredibly dangerous to our firefighting community. uh You know: we've gone so far in annapolis uh and.

O

In with with legislation to make sure that there are walkways on roofs uh for for safety uh and.

O

You know to be quite honest: uh there there's a lot of of uh public safety issues with solar.

O

You know you pull up to an array and it's it's glowing. Okay, what do you do? Well, the typical you.

O

Know get off the fire engine and get the fire hose ready, um doesn't work here. So there's just a lot.

O

There's a lot to these things, but I I went a little bit far here, but what I wanted to say is.

O

Let's not forget that we really wanted to make this as attractive uh as workable in the in.

O

In our beautiful county as we, we can and that's why we focused on the remainders.

O

Because we wanted to try to keep it small scale and do a phased-in approach here, if you will.

O

When I'm working with my colleagues from across the state at mayco down in annapolis, I hear the.

O

Horror stories of them talking about driving by each these huge arrays of solar panels. I.

O

Don't know how many folks have been up by mount st mary's college uh in the recent few in the recent.

O

Past but there are huge arrays up there and that's that that's not what we want to do here. We want to.

O

Can I use the word surgically infuse these things, I think that's where we.

O

Were trying to get to so there's my there's, my 10 cents on solar energy.

O

And listen, we knew there were going to be challenges as far as you know, with these.

O

Remainders, uh you know we we really did, but we really felt that that was the safest and and.

O

Perhaps the less challenging place to start as we begin our approach with this.

O

A

I think yeah I mean at carroll county, obviously we're going to be very different from the way baltimore county. Does it the way anne arundel I mean.

A

But, uh okay, any other any other and cynthia. That's why the conversation that you guys.

O

Have had tonight is is is very valuable because you guys have brought up some excellent points.

O

uh And you know I I applaud you. I applaud you guys for thinking about all these things, because.

O

That'll help us make the uh the decision here and you're right you're spot on.

O

I- and I said this before cynthia when when we first brought this up, I don't know.

O

Two weeks ago, or whatever I do not want to be told by legislators in annapolis, where to put solar.

O

Rays in carol, I want to be told by the folks that live here in carroll.

O

And that's you guys, uh that's what I want to do so. That's another reason why we kind of wanted.

O

To get out in front of all this, uh you know so no very valuable point cynthia. Thank you.

A

Yeah and I think and the same aspect, you know this is a great thing for carroll county, because.

A

It allows people who can't have solar, arrays or a solar on their roof or maybe don't want to then.

A

Join into their community solar, so.

A

um Good point any other, any other points anybody wants to make and what's the next step, brenda.

F

Before we move on to that, I do see that harry sellers is back on. I don't know if you wanted.

F

If harry is, you can hear me and he is able to to get his audio if you had additional.

F

Questions for him before we moved on, since he wasn't able to finish. Yes, can you hear me.

F

Yes, yes yeah. We got you harry okay, yeah, sorry about that. I guess I lost connection there. Somehow.

F

Anybody have any questions for harry sellers.

J

I could take any questions if my has any. If you still hear me.

F

We can hear you harry, but it seems like everybody's, had their questions answered.

J

Okay, thank you for the opportunity to voice our opinion and.

A

Thank you harry.

F

I guess the the next step, then, would be to figure out where.

F

Where you want to go from here, we have the text and um you know what do you want to do next.

F

You know, I assume you want to have some discussion about what your recommendation to the board will.

F

Be- and I I assume correct me if I'm wrong linda, but I assume that you'll have her draft.

F

The recommendation to provide to the commissioners, um of course, first you'll, need to discuss and.

F

Decide what your recommendation is going to be so um in terms of what.

F

That could be the next step if you're ready to make have that discussion at the next meeting.

B

Yeah my thought process is, I think, we've heard plenty at this point and some people were going.

B

To submit some additional stuff by email, I kind of think that either you know at one of our next two.

B

Meetings depending on the schedule, otherwise that maybe we could, you know kind of go back.

B

Through the text talk about it again as a group make whatever additional changes, we.

B

Want to make and then send it forward up up to the commissioners for a decision on their end is.

B

My fault, I don't know what everybody else thinks, but that's kind of where my headspace is on this.

E

You know uh one thing so far from the agricultural side, you know harry was speaking to us and I think.

E

Last time, wayne barnes also uh was speaking to us from sort of the agricultural perspective.

E

And so far at least my uh perception is that the agricultural voice we're getting.

E

Is sort of uniformly against this, the carroll county farm bureau and the ag commission board.

E

But of course, there may be other farmers that farm differently or think differently.

E

And may not necessarily be reflected in the comments that we're getting.

E

So I guess I would invite if there are folks that are listening or talking to others.

E

uh That come from the agricultural side that maybe see it differently. You know those could.

E

Those comments could be submitted in writing. I would certainly welcome that perspective as well.

C

Bernie, you have been getting comments. I think you did have one from a farmer uh and that same thing.

C

So I'm I think, they've been sent to planning commission we've been forwarding them on to you.

C

But maybe we can gather all the comments for you all to have too for your next discussion.

A

Yeah, I think we got one recently from a farmer, but other than that. I think the.

A

Other ones were more negative, I think, but the last one we got was the positive one.

F

Some individual property owners who who have farms who are in favor because they would like to see.

F

This on their property, um so you know, I think, as a community. They, it sounds like um the I community.

F

Organizations are opposed to it, but there are individuals who support it because they would like.

F

To pursue it on their property jeff, and I thought it was interesting. I wanted to make the point that.

B

When harry was talking about uh several of the concerns that were brought up by the farm bureau,.

B

Three of those out of the five concerns that I wrote down that I heard.

B

Were things that were addressed within the text, amendment itself.

B

So I think we need and not to say I with all due respect. Everybody has the right to their opinion.

B

But some of the concerns were directly already addressed within the text.

B

As well, which I kind of found interesting, um so I think there might be a little bit of.

B

Of fear out there that might not be based entirely on what the text actually says.

B

Some of that could be coming from. um You know I mentioned previously that we had spoken to many.

F

Of the agricultural community groups, like the farm bureau and the ag commission, the ag advisory board.

F

Back in the fall- and there were some changes that were made.

F

As a result of that, to our concepts before drafting the text and coming.

F

To the planning commission, so it could be that they are still thinking of the way.

F

The concepts were prior to um coming to the planning commission with what we have now.

E

Yeah hi and I very much I I understand that I appreciate that very much and I know, for example,.

E

One of the comments we got from the agriculture community was talking about how this potentially.

E

Opens pandora's box for development um and that sort of thing- and I think you know the.

E

Commissioner, lance was really pointing out that that's that that isn't necessarily concerned.

E

With the way this these commissioners are approaching this, so it's a it's a concern.

E

But it's being addressed, and so I get that we have the sort of this um yang and yang back and.

E

Forth I I really just want to make sure that that we're getting sort of all the perspectives out of.

E

The ag community that we can, uh because it's such an important part of our of our heritage and our.

E

In our community here uh in this in this county, so the more I can be educated, we can all be educated.

E

About that and linda, you guys have done a great job of sort of batching comments in.

E

The past I know these come in, we've had some come in sort of individually individually and.

E

Just for me, my problem with that is, I get a zillion emails and sometimes I skim it.

E

And then it gets lost, then I read it, but I don't get a chance to go back and find it.

E

Again so the way you've done these batchings in the past have been really helpful. To me.

F

I can compile all of the comments that were sent to you, because the linda's office did.

F

Share them with me, if they didn't come directly to me or if I wasn't copied on them, so I will compile.

F

Them all into one document and send them to lara bavata to get sent out to you before the next.

F

Maybe we can meeting them too, like ones that are pro and ones that are.

C

Against and kind of do like we've done in the past for a while and I'll try to make sure that.

O

I get those fed to you as well brenda and linda because I've gotten quite a few myself. uh I've.

O

Gotten uh you know one one: uh a dear friend of mine who's, a big ag guy here in the county.

O

Has you know a lot to say about it? He he, you know just for example, he's. He said. Why not put.

O

Language in there that says um that it will be on the least productive areas of the remainder.

O

um And, and also have the least impact on the farm ability of the resulting land.

O

Language like that, so these guys are thinking about this. This is an example that you know they.

O

They, I think, I don't think they're all against it. I think that they have their reservations.

O

About it, but I think they all realize that we've got to do something here, because none of us want.

O

To see these huge solar arrays, so um so a lot of them are are really thinking about this. So I've.

O

Gotten about, I don't know, a half dozen also that's just an example of some of the language that I've.

O

Gotten from some folks about things that you you could put into the language here to make it.

O

To make it suitable so I'll get those to to everybody too and there's a gentleman. I work.

O

With by the name of weaver, you guys probably know him anyway, uh he he's got a lot to say about this.

O

Too and he he uh eats sleeps and breathes the zag stuff. So he'll he's got some comments too.

O

So we'll try to get them to you before it gets to us so that you guys can maybe insert some language.

O

That that will make it easier for us in the end. So we'll get this to you.

O

I'll be with him tomorrow and I'll make sure we remind him to do that. That'd be great. Thank you.

A

Okay, so I think in the next couple meetings we'll just basically have a final discussion.

A

After we get those comments compiled then we'll determine which meeting it's more appropriate.

A

Sounds like it might be most appropriate on the 31st.

C

If we have you scheduled for the next meeting, and we can put you on the agenda.

C

On the 31st as well, so there's plenty of room and we are setting the next agenda.

C

For the march 16th meet and have this as an item after our development review project.

C

So it'll be a long meeting. Anticipate that sorry.

C

When it rains at four, I guess that wednesday's st patrick's day right so.

A

Okay, any other any other comments, questions.

A

So with that, our next meeting is tuesday march 16th, our normal 9 a.m.

A

Business meeting it sounds like we're going to be here for a long time, so uh get ready.

A

And with that, I'm going to adjourn the meeting, see you guys in a couple weeks. Thank you all.

E