Carroll County, MD Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission, 7 Jun 2023

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From YouTube: Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission June 7, 2023

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/planning-zoning-commission/

A

Beginning and certain commission meeting to order today is june 7 19 8 23., I'd like to.

A

Welcome everyone this evening um I don't see our newest member yet, but hopefully he'll join us.

B

Yes, I believe he's going to be joining us momentarily. He was having an issue getting online.

B

I just actually spoken to him a few minutes ago. Okay, all right just want to give you a heads up.

A

Okay, thank you all right, madam clerk, can we please start by establishing the quorum.

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Miss karchter beer, mr lester, mr hoff,.

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Mr kane, here, mr smith, here, commissioner gordon here secretary eisenberg here madam chair, please.

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Let the record reflect that five members are present and we do have a quorum. Okay. Thank you.

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They stand for the pledge of allegiant.

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Pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america.

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And to the republic for which it stands.

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One nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

A

Madam secretary, are there any changes to the agenda that sent to us? No, the agenda.

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Is as posted and written, there are no changes for this evening. Thank you. Do I hear a motion.

A

For approval of the agenda, I make a motion that we approve this evening's agenda. Second,.

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Okay, there's a motion and a second all in favor, signified by saying aye, please all right.

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It is approved um before we move to item five.

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um I just want to say that this will be linda eisenberg's last meeting with us, and um I for.

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One am going to miss you immensely and appreciate all you've done and wish you well going forward. So.

A

Good luck. Oh. Thank you so much. Madam chair. I really appreciate that and yes this evening.

D

Is my last meeting, I've been with this planning for planning commission for 10 years um as be.

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Our chief and in the last five plus years as the director of planning and your secretary and it's.

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Been wonderful, such a great group to work with them and I miss each and every one of you. So I.

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Will be sending you my new contact information, um but I hope that we all keep in touch and it's been.

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Such a pleasure, thank you so much. I appreciate it um and with that I would like to announce two new.

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um Members to the planning and zoning commission, we have two new positions that have been filled.

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The first is ralph robertson and I believe he will be joining us this evening. He was the former land.

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um Agricultural preservation, specialist with the county for many many years, actually helped start.

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Part of the ag press program in carroll county so he's a wealth of knowledge. He will be your.

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Full-Time member, um as well as an alternate who was once on the commission about five years ago,.

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um Mr richard soyson will also be joining the planning commission at the next meeting on.

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June 20th um and then with that um a decision has been made that mr chris hein, who is the.

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Director of land and resource management will be the secretary of the planning commission, so.

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He is here this evening and chris do you want to introduce yourself? I know you know them in.

D

The capacity of director of lrm, but at your next meeting he will be the secretary of the commission.

E

Yes, I will maybe good evening everybody. um Yes, as linda said, um uh we're very excited to hear.

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That linda is leaving us to move on to a new opportunity and, uh in the interim, the board.

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Of county commissioners have asked me to act as the acting director of planning uh to help out.

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Linda and her staff in the transition, and so in the interim next meeting I will be acting as the.

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um The secretary for you all so look forward to seeing you all in person at the next meeting.

D

Thank you all right, thank you, chris, um and with that we have a pretty lengthy agenda for our.

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Wednesday evening work session a lot of items to get to, but again thank you all so much for.

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The well wishes- and I hope we continue to keep in touch. I wish you all the best as well. Thank you.

A

Okay, um so we can now move to your administrative report, or was that all you had? That was all I had.

D

This evening, thank you, sorry about that. That's, okay, no, worries! Okay, so next up is.

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The board of education facilities, master plan um and, I believe, that's bill, kane.

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Yes, good evening uh um bill cain, I'm the facilities planner with the school system.

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um Every year I come before the planning commission to present uh the 10-year.

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Educational facilities master plan update that we're required the school system is required to.

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Do annually uh the document goes to the board in may, and the board of education typically approves.

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It in june, because it's due to the maryland department of planning by july 1st of every year.

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um The board of education this year uh had they had some so many items on the on the to discuss.

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Related to this year's facility master plan and the um the redistring committee that was formed.

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Last year the southeast area, redistring committee, they decided to do a work session. Last week. The.

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Work session was held on may 31st and we discussed the plan along with uh gave them an update on.

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You know where, where these uh redistricting kind of left off in the fall.

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um um But the document before you today is what was given the document that was.

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Given to the board of education last week, uh just there's a lot of information. Obviously it's a big.

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Pretty pretty big document I just wanted to go through some of the highlights. uh You.

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Know the big, the big ticket items and then be happy to answer any questions you have.

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um uh You know one of the major needs that's identified every year when we look at facilities.

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Is uh you know, there's there's a couple categories, but one of them that we look at is capacity. I.

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Would say over the last 10 years or or you know, 10 to 15 years capacity hasn't been an issue, but.

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um uh As far as where our enrollments have been, but the current enrollment.

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Projections that are a part of the document, there's section five in the larger document.

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um The enrollment projections this year actually are higher uh were projected to go higher than.

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We have been for some time. uh The reason for that is back um the september. 30Th last falls.

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Enrollment we gained, um or we we enrolled about 740 more students than we're expect.

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That's a significant increase in enrollment that hasn't been seen in in the school system. Probably.

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In 20 20 plus years that that large of a jump uh so obviously when we have that many kids show.

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Up in the system in one year, the the enrollment projections, uh based on that historical enrollment.

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You know the the enrollment projections are going to increase in the future, because we.

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Have more students today so just an idea where the projections are headed, the the 10-year projection.

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Our total enrollment is projected to be uh about 28 500 by the end of the 10-year period, uh which.

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Is almost uh to the peak of of total enrollment in the school system? Our peak enrollment was in.

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The 2008 time frame uh it was a just shy of 29 000., so um uh the current projections have us.

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Almost going back to that number now, you know we do the enrollment projections every year, so.

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um This current year's historical enrollment is, you know, averaged into the last four years.

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To project the future, obviously, if next year we we don't increase that much or it changes.

F

The projections next year could change slightly, but um it is uh a significant jump. uh There was.

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You know question about whether is this all does this increase all from students returning after.

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uh The pandemic, we did look at that about 30 percent of the new students that we saw.

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uh Show up last fall were enrolling from private school or or coming back from home.

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School, the other uh the majority of the increase actually was from students transferring from other.

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Public school systems, so the majority of the increase really came from people moving into.

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The county with with students which you know is a trend pre-pandemic. We were starting to see that.

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Increase, obviously, the pandemic changed that for those couple years the trends were kind of all.

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Over the place during the pandemic, but um it it is a trend that we had been seeing. So I think it.

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Speaks to, obviously, the county is still obviously a a place that a lot of people want to move for a.

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Lot of number of reasons there's still demand, you know to move into the county. So um at this.

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Point we would expect that trend to continue and that the projections are based on that.

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um The other thing I'll note about the projections is they do anticipate a doubling of our pre-cam.

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Enrollment, uh I'm not sure if all of you have heard, but you know the the state general assembly.

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Last year passed the maryland blueprint uh for maryland's future, which was a major legislation.

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That's going to change the way education happens in the state of maryland, uh it ex it. One of the.

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Main components of it, expanded eligibility for pre-k in public schools across maryland.

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um They're trying you know, the goal is to get more pre-k students in into public schools over.

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The next few years, so the projections do anticipate we we would add about 400 pre-k.

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Students to what we currently have so that that's another factor why the projections are are higher.

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Than they have been in the past, um the other uh major item that I wanted to go over tonight.

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um With you all was um where, where we left off last year with the southeast area, redistricting.

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Is that the committee was working to develop options to present to the board of education.

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Last fall: the board of education did hold two work sessions. uh Late august.

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Early september, they were presented options from the committee's report. Several of those options.

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Included a capital component, which was were additions to help reduce the amount of students.

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One of the dilemmas the committee dealt with is the the eldersburg area, schools, where the.

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Schools that were over utilized and the majority of the schools that we were in the committee that.

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Really was the majority of the seeds that were available were in the mount airy cars.

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Ridge, manor elementary parsr ridge, elementary schools, which would have required a big shift.

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Of students from eldersburg pushing them all the way west into mount airy, which would have.

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Moved a lot of students and really kind of changed feeder patterns and and been pretty disruptive, so.

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The committee came up with a couple options that looked to add small. You know smaller additions.

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uh At a couple targeted schools to help reduce the number of students we had to domino and push west.

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The board got those options, last fall and they had questions about how the additions would work.

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Or not work, they asked staff to hire an architect to do a feasibility study to look at additions at.

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Sykesville middle and freedom elementary school, the architect, completed the study in april.

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And then those studies were presented at last week's work session, with the board of education.

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The this architect looked at a small addition at freedom and a larger edition at freedom and the.

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Same thing for sykesville, they looked at a four classroom edition and a 10 classroom edition at.

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Sykesville middle the board of education directed staff last week to include in in the upcoming this.

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Year's facility master plan which we'll go back to the board next week. Actually they asked staff to.

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Include the small edition at freedom elementary and the large edition at sykesville middle.

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Regarding the other schools that were over utilized per the board policy,.

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Because of all of the uncertainty right now with the blueprint legislation and how it's going to.

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Impact the operation of the school system, um which you know could even you know if you've, seen or or.

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Read any articles about some of the implications is the potential? Is there where we might have to.

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Move staff from certain areas to the county to other areas of the county. You know, based on the.

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Way, state funding flows to targeted populations um there's with all of those questions the board.

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Of education felt like doing any more looking at redistricting at this point with so many unknowns.

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uh Was not a good idea? They didn't want to disrupt the community.

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uh And make any decisions, not knowing how the blueprint's going to actually impact.

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How school the school system operates so at this point the only thing moving forward really from.

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The the sarc committee and that process is the two additions to solve the the overcrowding at freedom.

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Elementary and sykesville middle, the other schools at this point are kind of on hold until we until.

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We see over the next year or so how blueprint and the operating budget is going to pan out.

F

um Bill that's kind of an update on sarc. uh I take a minute take a break, any questions that you have.

A

Yeah, I I have one: um what for freedom? What is the number of students that this edition is.

F

So the the it's a five classroom edition, so it would put um the uh capacity of freedom.

F

Somewhere around 6 30. 630., so it it would handle the projected enrollment.

F

uh Separate freedom elementary is projected to be 120 plus percent. I think the five classroom.

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Edition would bring the utilization down to close to 100. I think I think it's like 18 kids over.

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Capacity of the projection, if the projections hold so it'd, be like 102, something like that.

F

um The the the board considered the larger edition, the it would.

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Be a nine classroom edition the problem at freedom elementary is the site is so small.

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That there was a lot of concern about um building a such a large addition would turn that school.

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Into one of the largest elementary schools in the county on one of the smallest sites,.

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um Which could be problematic, for um you know the the bus loop, parking parent drop off all.

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Of those issues, so the board decided the smaller edition uh would make more sense at that site. So.

A

And is there a target date for when oh that'll happen so yeah? So what a good question um so the.

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Board directed us to include it in this year's facility master plan this this year's facility.

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Master plan is kind of the kicking off point for next year's capital improvement plan, request, which.

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uh Is kind of the implementation component of the 10-year facility plan? So if, if it's going.

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To go into the facility master plan this year and then in the fy25 capital budget, which the.

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Border will approve this fall and send to the county commissioners. uh You know you know in.

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The fall after it's approved we'll be asking for design funding to hire an architect to design it.

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um The commissioners would decide on the budget next may if they approve funding.

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To hire an architect we'd be hiring an architect to start next july. Now it takes about two years.

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To to plan a project school project mainly to get through the development review process,.

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The site plan review process. um We could probably design the building in in a year, but.

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You know it's probably closer to 18 months to get the site plan through with all of the requirements.

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For storm runner management force conservation, all of those things so to play it safe. We would allow.

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Two years of planning- and then you know when it's ready it'll be a year of construction.

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You know because it's a small edition of probably only take a year to build so we're talking about.

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Starting next july, three years down the road before it would open now they do.

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Have portable classrooms they have six portable classrooms currently on.

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Site that are handling students today and they're they're. Currently I can look it up.

G

A

F

I hit the mouse and muted myself, so I was just saying freedom's currently about.

F

um 117 so they're about 92 kids over their current capacity.

H

With the bill with the new, uh the five new classrooms eliminate the five.

H

uh Portable classrooms yeah, the study that was done that would be the plan, is the the additional.

F

The addition would go in the in the back, uh but- and you know we wouldn't necessarily have to.

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Remove the portables, but the intent would be to do to remove the portables to help with the bus loop.

F

And the kind of the parking air drop off- I don't know if any of you have driven by and seen it or.

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Drop off or pick up, but it's it's a it's a kind of a mess there there's not a whole lot. We can do.

F

Because the school's so close to the road, but you know, if we move the portables, then we could try to.

F

Help it out a little yeah. I saw I went by today, and so I think sponsor is going to get in there.

A

So yeah they get in, but only about three or four commitments. At a time. Yeah.

I

So so my question would be if you remove the five portable classrooms and you just.

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Add five you're really not extending your capacity at all of that correct.

F

Correct it's the only. What we're doing is we're. It does change the utilization and the way the.

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Concurrency management and adequate public facilities ordinance looks at utilization.

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And also the way the board of education policy. So um but you know because the portables don't.

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Count into capacity the school's currently at 117 percent, 90 kids over. Obviously, they have.

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Seats, they're learning because they're in portable classrooms, so it's really just replacing temporary.

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Capacity with permanent capacity that can then be counted into to the building actual capacity, so.

F

Okay, anybody else.

A

Again, it's all yours bill, so just so you know. The next step is.

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um We planning will prepare a letter of consistency. The point of the educational.

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Facility master plan and what bill needs from this body is to make sure that it is.

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Consistent with the carroll county master plan and the freedom community comprehensive plan.

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um So this will happen at the june 20th meeting he'll be back before you at that point in time.

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Stock will have reviewed the document, its entirety and written the comment letter.

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Like we typically do, um but that will be under secretary heinz signature and your signature.

A

All right, so that concludes your report. Bill yeah, um the only I guess. The only other thing I would.

F

Highlight or point out is that we did change in section six, uh the the need to modernize.

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Schools or renovate schools is another big, you know facility need, we changed or we updated the.

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Scoring rubric for our modernizations, we included schools that were built in the 80s, whereas before.

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We just looked at school's bill prior to 19 1980., um but these new scores liberty, high, is now the.

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Next modernization in the 10-year calendar, for uh when we say modernize, we mean fully either fully.

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Renovate the school to bring it up to all current codes and an instructional models, or sometimes we.

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Do a replacement uh typically, it starts as a minorization, and we do a feasibility study.

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To look at whether it makes sense to replace or renovate but liberty high at this point is kind.

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Of jumped into the mix- and it's now the next uh minorization, so that's that's a big change from.

F

Previous years, that I'd also highlight but other than that, I think those are.

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The big those are the big changes really from from what the what was in the plan last year.

A

Okay, all right any other questions for bill: nope. Okay, thank you, sir.

A

All right appreciate it have a good night. You too alrighty item seven concurrency management report.

A

Laura matias good evening good evening, if I could please share my screen, I do have a.

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Powerpoint, there's not a huge wow character to it. I'm glad I'm going before brenda, because hers.

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Has a little more uh wow factor, but mine has some data that I'd like to share all right and.

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Are we good? Everybody can see that.

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Yes, okay, thank you for the verbal all the people are a little really tiny. Now, on my monitor so.

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You're you're all super small enough. Thank you for the verbal, okay, wonderful, so, hopefully, you'll.

C

Remember that I was before you last year and delivered the concurrency management report. This.

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Is because this is an annual report and chapter 156 of our code, which you are all familiar with.

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um Adequate public facilities and good currency management is the actual title of that. It does.

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Charge us with creating an annual report, so you should all have received a copy of this.

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In advance of tonight's meeting, I'm sure you read every word from start to finish.

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If you didn't, the highlights are on pages four or five 26 and 27., so that gives you just a little.

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Those are your your cliff notes. Those are where the recommendations, the summary of the report, lies.

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um So again, this is an annual report. Last year I actually watched uh the meetings from last year.

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Just the other day and found myself saying like next year, we're gonna spin around our heels and.

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Start right in and we're going to deliver this a little bit earlier to you, because the purpose of.

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This report, it comes to the planning and zoning commission to advise you and then.

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What my request is today is that we forward that you all would forward the report to the.

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Board of county commissioners with a favorable recommendation and to include school data and.

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Student enrollment productions from bill kane as well, and that then the concurrency report.

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um Goes to the board of county commissioners, and it is to advise them in their decision-making.

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Process, um if there's anything in the cip, which it sounds like uh maybe next year we're heading.

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Towards that, so, if there's any recommendations that come um with this, that are central to.

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Residential growth in carroll county, okay, so that's the ask in front of you today.

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Okay, so again just backing out. The purpose of this chapter of the code is to ensure.

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That residential growth and it's this is in the county and not municipalities. They have their own.

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um Definition of levels of adequacy- okay, so this is just in the county to ensure.

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That residential growth in the county does not strain our public facilities.

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So what does the? What do we? What is subject to concurrency and and again, you know this, these.

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Plans are coming before you, the planning and zoning commission, so we're talking about major.

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Subdivisions we're talking about site plans for residential development, so this may be um most.

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Recently, neld acres right was an age-restricted community. It was a site development plan, not a.

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Subdivision but a development of a site for residential purposes, subject to concurrency.

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And mobile home parks as well fall under this chapter. What is exempt, what are exempt.

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The exemptions include off conveyances minor subdivisions, which is three three.

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Lots or less commercial or industrial and again anything in municipalities,.

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And the facilities that we're testing would be schools, roads, water and sewer, police, fire, ems.

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Again, you're more than familiar with this because it comes to you when you see a major.

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Subdivision for a review of a preliminary plan at that level, we're looking at concurrency and.

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Then again, potentially again a final plan phase, so we do come and we say we're looking for approval.

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In accordance with chapter 155 development and subdivision and 156 concurrency, all right, so some.

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Numbers and data for this year, so the concurrency report for fiscal year 22.

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So the residential lots recorded the top chart actually is approved by the planning commission.

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And you all know that uh preliminary plan moving to final plan, those numbers are not necessarily.

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Going to be the same because a preliminary plan you see within a fiscal year is probably going.

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To be different than the final of a final plan for a different subdivision that you're seeing.

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So these are different plans that are working their way through the process.

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So the planning and zoning commission did approve 16 subdivisions in this fiscal.

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Year period, which included 45 lots, okay, 28 of those were subject to concurrency.

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And then, if we go down to the lots recorded again, all the math isn't.

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Going to necessarily add up so the lots when they get recorded.

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You are are very familiar as well with extension requests, we come before you and say we had one.

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We had two extensions that may very well be a subdivision that was approved. It's received an.

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Extension so once they finally move to recordation and record and create those lots, that is when.

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We start to put these numbers in here, so new residential lots recorded in this fiscal year.

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We had 187 and a hundred and seven of those were in municipalities again not subject to concurrency.

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Well, it doesn't wanna there, we go okay, building permits.

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In the sixth year so per the code permits are not to exceed 6 000 on average in a six-year period.

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We had 2 487 permits residential permits issued for the six-year fiscal period so fiscal year.

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17 through 22, when you add up the numbers, we're seeing 2 487 we're nowhere near that six hundred.

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Six thousand um permit cap that we're looking at in the code so interesting. I think these numbers.

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Are a little interesting when we talk about um maybe a lag or a lull in construction, um because.

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Of covid years right, so we saw like a drop in 2020 bounced back in 2021 and now we're kind of evening.

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Out to what we were seeing before all that, so if I found that kind of interesting in general.

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So I will no, I won't that's. Gonna stop screenshot.

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Stop sharing okay, so those those were some of the numbers.

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um Again, on page four and five is where you see the summary and the recommendations and.

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Mr kane already covered, he went over schools and what we are seeing is that you know freedom.

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Oh, that's not good.

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Tyler made it sorry, excuse me, I don't know if anyone saw that except me, it's telling me to.

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Plug in my pc, which is already plugged in so I'm, not sure what that's about. Hopefully, I won't just.

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Disappear so freedom elementary school. This is a projected inadequacy, beginning in fiscal year, 24.

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That is like the um little little red flag with the schools right now and we we already knew that.

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um Mr king talked about it and he also talked about how the the development of the committee.

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The southern area, or district and committee the recommendations that meeting in front of.

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The board of ed last week was very key and it gives us kind of an idea of how.

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They're going to be moving forward when that may happen, and the time frame for that so.

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Those are all very important things and we are looking from a county perspective.

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We're hopeful that, once that plan gets put in place when we solidify that plan, that our.

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Board of county commissioners will consider at what point that will be mitigation, which.

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Is considered acceptable to the county that we can move forward with the approval that you all.

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Can move forward with the approval of plans that are coming through in the freedom area.

C

Okay, so schools is a highlight. um Our fire and emergency services also is something to just.

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And regularly, would you see um the category of approaching inadequate per the thresholds.

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In chapter 156 for fire services, um so this year we were down a little bit. We had eight that were.

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Approaching an adequate last year there were nine, so we're looking at like the question is: how do.

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You address that right, so we do have a new right director of fire and emergency services. We also.

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Are looking to have paid personnel right? uh It was my understanding from a meeting this morning.

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We're onboarding 70 people tomorrow and most of those are in fire and emergency services, so.

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We're upping the staffing, the paid personnel um and in consideration as well of automatic.

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Sprinklers we're hoping that conversation continues with our district director and.

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Cc visa as to looking at thresholds um and maybe adjusting thresholds um response time measures so.

C

So those are the highlights from this year's report. Like I said it does contain a lot of.

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Data as to what all plans you've approved, um how many off conveyances were approved in the county.

C

And all of the threshold measures are in the report as well. So it's it's wonderful reading.

C

If you have a chance, but if not use those those key pages that I gave you um so again, we are.

C

Looking for a request, just the request just to forward this to the board of county commissioners.

C

And I believe that the department of planning has put a letter together her regards for you.

C

Do you have questions for me.

A

Do you need that recommendation tonight.

A

um Or next meeting I I it would be preferable tonight, but if you felt a.

C

Need to come back for some reason. uh I'm certainly happy to do so.

A

I don't um I don't know about the other gentleman and I do see that mr ralph robertson has joined us.

A

Although I can't see him, if you could turn your camera on, then we can see you as well.

A

But um so who wants to take a stab at emotion,.

H

I'll take a shot, but before I do laura a couple questions the municipalities.

H

Are exempt from concurrency, they have their own concurrency, I'm assuming right.

H

And is that modeled after the county concern concurrency models? You know for.

H

Capacity, that's a great question right, so we're they're not subject to our concurrency what they.

C

Are each utilizing not utilizing? I do not know, I will say that we count all of those numbers.

C

um Because we then are providing bill kane, the all of the what's coming right. That's all included in.

C

His projections, so we count the numbers, but it's not subject to our concurrency gotcha yeah. Okay,.

H

That's good for me to know good for everybody to know the the uh the other question. The those.

H

um Projects that are not counted, uh you know that come through the the process of of.

H

Plan developments and things like that that we see there's the number of homes or units or.

H

Whatever that's going to impact and um and then there's these sidebar things a bad word, but.

H

You know you see single family homes being built one to over here, a couple over there that.

H

Aren't in municipalities are they included in the concurrency numbers eventually because they would.

H

Affect schools: they would affect fire, they would affect police or they. How are they accounted for.

C

So so again, one 156 outlines what is exempt and what is included so anything that comes.

C

Through that is a major subdivision, four lots or more is going to be subject to concurrency.

C

If it's minor, three lots or less, it's not, and you have to remember with that you've seen this.

C

Plenty of times where we go all the way back to the beginnings of that parcel's history. So if.

C

You've created 20 lots and now you're coming in for another one. What then you're still a major.

C

Subdivision right, you've already done 20 lots, we're looking at those 20 lots, plus that one lot.

C

Okay and you you've seen those we've brought those in front of you and and explain that for sure.

C

um So does that does that answer your question as to what is and what isn't subject.

H

Well, I I'm I'm thinking uh just around the corner from me, there's um on case mill route, there's two.

H

Individual homes that have been killed, yeah 16 18 months, obviously don't meet the you know the.

H

Number requirement to go through concurrency, but they do add to the number uh with in terms of.

H

School potentially fire response that or how are they accounted for? There's onesie twosies right so.

C

Those are not subject to chapter 156, so they don't now is bill kane still on, um I'm not sure yet he's.

G

Great so, but he has, he uses our numbers plus, which I think he did touch on tonight too right. He has.

C

Like birth rates and projected you know, who's coming into kindergarten he's got census. Data.

C

He has all sorts of that kind of information that he's utilizing for the school's portion of it, but.

C

In terms of one two or three lots here or there there, they don't fall under our chapter 156.

B

Okay, all right, I have a quick question so once um they've all gone through the review- and it comes.

A

Up to concurrency management say, for instance, farr was okay and then, by the time it's going to final.

A

It is approaching inadequate or inadequate. um Does that hold them back.

C

So the code very clearly outlines right what your authorities are. So I'm just.

C

Going to use the mineral hill subdivision as a good example. Now that was 14 lots, but you saw.

C

That very recently and the schools, because the schools were inadequate right, that the code lays.

C

Out you cannot, you do not have the authority to approve. You must disapprove this right. So.

C

It so if it's inadequate at that point in time, then.

C

You must disapprove right if we're talking about a preliminary plan early on, we do test it.

C

And it will not prevent it from moving forward to a final plan review stage. But when the final.

C

Comes before you for approval, something has to have turned around or else you're. In the same.

C

The code will tell you you can't, cannot if it's inadequate, does that make sense yeah, so is it.

A

That was a perfect example and then go it's bad. It's the same applause by the time. It's final.

C

So the code does, uh if at preliminary everything is all good it doesn't. It does.

A

Okay, sorry miss grandpa, um it doesn't have to be retested at final. We just we so that is laid out.

C

In the code too, so you're really looking at that final approval stage and if everything.

C

Was okay and it is okay, now, okay, all right.

H

And this is the report for uh fiscal year ending uh june 30 2022.

H

Right, that's the package yeah, a summary report of of you know last year's activities. In effect, yes,.

H

Yes, right, michael there um note on the bottom of 27 that may help you with your.

A

I want laura to know. I did I read through the whole thing, maybe you scanned some of it, but I.

H

Did read through it, and I did see that on page 27 and I turn to page 27, knowing that's where that.

H

Verbiage was so I'll make a motion um that the carroll county playing against zoning commission.

H

uh Forward the concurrency management report to the board, I should say the concurrency management.

H

Report fiscal year 2022 to the board of canon commissioners with a favorable recommendation.

H

And including school data and student student population projections from mr king.

I

I'll, second, that, okay, all in favor all right.

D

Mr robinson, can you um undo your microphone and just given us an affirmative or a negative or.

D

If you can turn your camera on just so, we can record your vote or else we're going to have.

D

To account it as an abstention, okay, I'll vote, I'll vote affirmative. Thank you and.

J

The camera I'm having trouble with here. Okay, thank you for letting us know all right. Okay,.

A

um um And it's approved and laura you have the earth okay. So that's one favor in the.

D

Motion carries, and I will go ahead and forward that to you, madam chair, for um your signature,.

D

And we'll send it to them I'll have that to you tomorrow. Okay, thank you. Thank you all and thank.

C

You, mr kane, for reading it you and chris hein can compare your notes. He read the whole thing too.

H

Thanks the alarm: okay, um next up is the community solar in agricultural district, brenda.

A

I believe that's you yep, so that's miss danny, I'm just a little bit of background. So as you.

D

All may be aware that the board of county commissioners have a six-month moratorium.

D

um On our community, solar in the agricultural zone, only regular solar on commercial and industrial.

D

Rooftop mounted, all of that stuff is still moving forward. There's no moratorium on that.

D

But part of the process is whenever we do a text amendment and that's what's being proposed here.

D

um Is that the commissioners are sending to a text amendment where the agricultural zoning.

D

District specifically for community solar, so the idea of tonight is for um brenda to go ahead and.

D

Talk with you about what the work group came up with as part of that moratorium process with the.

D

Board of county commissioners, um I think, should be the motion moving forward or what to do moving.

D

Forward and then for your recommendation to send back to them for their discussion and decision.

D

So it will not need to come back to you all again, unless you feel that you want to have more time to.

D

Discuss and make other um recommendations, however, this needs to be taken care of um within the next.

D

Several meetings in order to meet the deadline of the moratorium so with them and afforded to.

D

um Brenda thank you. Thank you, linda, okay, good evening everybody. Can you hear me.

G

Yes, yes, and can you see my screen? Yes, yes, all right, good.

K

um Linda um social life under so I'm going to repeat it anyway, because it's in my presentation.

K

um So, as linda said we're here tonight- and I know you have a foliage, so this could.

K

Possibly be quicker than you would um we're here tonight, just to go over the directions.

K

From the board of county commissioners on community solar in the agricultural zone,.

K

um And if you recall, I believe, you're all here, except for possibly ralph um we're all here when.

K

I briefed you on march 29th, so um you're already have some background on what what this is about.

K

um Just a quick reminder that you know what we're talking about is.

K

Community solar that community solar is a commercial operation.

K

um It is a solar energy generating system that is a subscription based, so one or more households.

K

Would share it and it doesn't have to be on their property. But you subscribe to a certain amount of.

K

Power and internet credits to your bill uh for the purpose of it really is to provide.

K

The opportunity to benefit from solar power without having it on your property.

K

So currently can I enter for just a second on what you're displaying has a little.

E

um Icon over it gives titles a try. If you can turn that off.

K

It only gives me the option to turn it on. Oh there we go. Thank you. I'm saying with my part.

K

My presentation in two different places, so I'm not really sure which one you guys are seeing.

K

um So currently community solar is allowed, as linda said, in the commercial zoning.

K

District and or at least most of them and then the industrial zone district.

K

Because it is a commercial operation, what we're talking about here is strictly the.

K

Community solar facilities that are allowed in on certain parcels in the agricultural zone.

K

So in may of 2021 the previous board adopted an amendment that would allow the community solar.

K

Facilities on certain parcels in the agricultural zone- and let me just flip to that with those.

G

To him I'll come back to this one, but the current code allows canadian solar facilities at a cap.

K

Of two megawatts, um I'm not gonna like go into different detail, but this is just a quick overview.

G

um They can't take more than 20 acres on a parcel. The conservation agent is required for the part.

K

That's not in solar, um you have. You have to have a site plan that, of course is required and we go.

K

To the planning commission notice, topsoil removed no impact environmental resources, um but they're.

K

Calling agrovoltaics now is required, which would co-locate the solar and agricultural activities.

K

um Landscape offers acquired 40-foot setbacks, 15 foot height limit underground utilities and.

K

A decommissioning plan and bond are required as part of the current requirements that are in place.

K

So going back um so those those things are put in place in may of 2021. The first plan was submitted.

K

To development review on april 28th of 2022., so since that time we currently have seven.

K

Plans that have been submitted- none of them have have gone farther than technical review committee.

K

Which means none of them have come as far as going in front of the planning commission. Yet.

K

So in march the current board of county commissioners adopted a six-month moratorium.

K

And the moratorium was on the processing review permitting and construction.

K

Of the community solar facilities, specifically in the agricultural zone,.

K

At that time, the board directed the staff to review the applicability or specifically.

K

For community solar energy, so that's what we're looking at! Just that look at certain issues and.

K

Requirements that were identified by the board and then also to form a work group that could.

K

Review these things with us and provide feedback on the concerns and options that were available.

K

And the board, based on the board's direction, that work group had two members of the ag community.

K

That were opposed, and specifically they asked us to have members of the carroll county farm bureau.

K

As those representatives, we had two members that were owners of properties adjacent to a proposed.

K

Community solar facility and then we had a representative from the solar industry who.

G

They did not want to be a mem um someone who had a current proposed project in the county and then.

K

Also, a property owner who had a post project on their property, and then we had staff from planning.

G

Development review and zoning to help provide information on the discussion through that process.

K

So between april 11th and may 1st, the work group met four times and almost 16 hours worth.

K

Of meetings and then after that point that we developed a draft work staff report and sent it.

K

Back to the work group to review and get comment on, and then we sent on may 16th the final staff.

K

Report to the board for their review may 18th. The board had a work session with mr hein and.

K

Had some discussion and the direction from the board at that time was that they want.

K

To remove community solar as a permitted use in the agricultural zone, nothing to do with.

K

Commercial industrial, just um what's currently in for allowing it in agricultural town times.

K

So you may ask: why are we here, but you probably already know because you're not near the planning.

K

Commission and ralph has been around long enough. He probably knows anyway, um so, even though the.

K

Commissions have already, you know said that they want to remove it from the zoning code under the.

K

Zoning code itself, it says we have to come to the planning commission when there is going to be a.

K

Proposed change to the zoning code or a map, so we are here tonight to let you you know to tell you.

K

That that was what the board's direction was and to then request uh directions from you. I mean a.

K

Recommendation from you, whether you would like to support the board's direction or whether you want.

K

To recommend keeping community solar the permitted use in the ag zone, like I said, the board's already.

K

Said what they want to do so you know we're not necessarily looking for the planning commission.

K

To discuss what the individual requirements are or should be, but you know their what approach.

K

Do you want to take? Would you like to success the discussion? Would you like to support it.

K

Or recommend keeping it and if you do want to keep it, then maybe the discussion would be. Why.

K

Would you want to keep it so that we can include that in what goes back to the new words.

I

Oh, this is matt. I still have the same question. I've had all along.

I

um I was told before that one of the issues is that the state has a mandate for solar and it's.

I

They said it applied to individual counties and what happens to the county if we never.

I

Meet that mandate could the state override the county code? I mean the big thing as a farmer.

I

You know we worry about is whole farms going into solar panels like every other county in.

I

The state that has two you know: 100 200, acre solar projects and that's what everybody really opposes.

I

So how does the state have that power to override the county if we never meet the mandate.

K

So the the answer to that is complicated there. There is not currently a requirement that the.

K

County have any certain amount of solar. The state has its own goal for meeting certain amounts of.

K

The energy generated with a certain amount of renewable energy there isn't any current mandate.

K

Though that we have a certain amount, but what has happened is several times in the past couple years.

K

The general assembly has reviewed legislation that proposed that that that happens it hasn't passed.

K

Yet, but that it has been proposed and discussed by the legislature several times now, the other.

K

The other issue, so that that's in terms of a state mandate, that's where that is, but the other issue.

K

Is the maryland public service commission and they are the ones who approve these types of facilities.

K

um And so they do have the authority to approve something. Even if.

K

The local jurisdiction doesn't want it, I mean if it doesn't follow our requirements, they can still.

K

Approve it and, and that that's I think, where more of the con you know more current controversy lives.

K

um It's not like, so that we could get a mandate at some point in the future, but currently the that.

A

Is the issue is, and there's been court cases to say that the amount of public service commission.

K

You know, could you know these? Are the solar companies could go back to them and say.

K

um You know I want to get a certificate of public convenience and necessity, and you.

K

Know get this approved and the public service commission could consider what the what the.

K

Local jurisdiction has in the zonings, but they can override it. Does that answer your question.

J

Brenda this is ralph robertson, um there's a little bit more to it than that, and that.

J

Is a public service commission can do that if they feel like there's an immediate need.

J

For something for extra power or a community that that is maybe short on power or an area.

J

I'm not too sure that they can just come in and wholesale override zoning or local.

J

County ordinances, in this case, without a pretty good fight on their hands. So I.

J

Mean I think we might need to look into that a little bit farther. Oh.

A

So if we vote to support the board direction, then any any agricultural.

A

um Is going to be banned from doing that, and that is correctly yeah. Currently the.

K

Even without if this gets removed from the zoning code, the only solo that you should be seeing in.

K

The agricultural zone is accessory, solar, which isn't considered commercial and that's allowed.

K

um So yeah it if the board, you know you're going to make a recommendation to the board.

K

The board will consider your recommendation, but ultimately they can still decide what.

K

Direction to go, even if it's not the same as what you recommended, um so if they remove it.

K

Then it would only be allowed in our zoning under commercial and industrial.

A

Okay, so the people that currently have that there have been through technical review.

A

um They would need to just scrap the entire thing correct.

K

If the board does not decide to grandfather those projects, then yeah.

A

So is to add something they are considering.

K

I don't think it's been brought up for discussion and open session, yet.

K

So I'm not you know chris, you can correct me if I'm wrong, commissioner.

K

Gordon, but I don't believe that it has been discussed yet at all.

E

Yeah, no, it has not been discussed, um but knowing the direction that the commissioners are leaving.

E

And that they do not want community solar and ag, I would frankly be shocked if they grandfathered.

E

um The projects that are that are in process, but I can't speak for the commissioners, but.

E

um That would be my assumption, commissioners, I'll just jump in for a quick second, um given.

B

The context of the conversation on solar and ag um that is correct, the the general opinion of the.

B

Board as a whole, is that we're not looking for it in any fashion of putting community solar within.

B

Ag and that we would not be grandfathering in any uh current uh proposals that have been submitted.

A

Okay, thank you.

H

um Just just for clarification, I I seem to recall that the the um the the the residual parcels were.

H

What this was limited to not all of uh ag, but I guess now we're we're being asked to or the.

H

The you know, because of the feedback from the community, it's being uh elevated to to include.

H

All of agriculture of land is that correct, no well you're! You are correct in that. Only.

K

Certain parcels in the agricultural zone uh were eligible for community solar to be developed and.

G

That was on remaining portion, so you know, just generally speaking, remaining portions are is.

K

Is the land that's left over on a parcel after the residential development rights have been taken and.

K

Or even if some of them have been taken, the summer left you've got that through. So some remaining.

K

Portions may have some development rights left. We had about. Two-Thirds of the remaining portions did.

K

Not have any uh remaining residential development right, so it was limited in the agricultural zones.

K

Only the remaining portions so- and this does not in any way expand it to looking at.

K

The rest of the agricultural zone, if, if we're removing it in in its current form,.

K

Does that answer your question? I'm still confused, so it's it's! It's just for residual portions.

H

It's not 380 portions right right.

K

That for remaining portions that exist s as of july 1st 2016. so can we can we.

H

Clean up the language on these a little bit the community, solar and agricultural zone, it.

H

Should just be remaining portions in this agricultural zone sounds like everything.

K

That that's the language that's used in the zoning code.

K

um So that's why it's written that way. It's actually says key solar energy, generating systems.

K

So like so that's why it's written that way, but those it specifies in the requirements.

K

In that section of the code that it's only on remaining portions, so if we move the whole piece.

K

You know it doesn't affect any other parcels in an accident.

A

The bottom line is no solar in any portion of a.

A

Correct no commercials.

K

You've had, which is meant to only serve their form, but.

K

But yes, all commercial, there wouldn't be any commercial at all in the agricultural zones.

A

That do you have something.

I

uh I was gonna comment, you know, the other thing is, you know it is a right.

I

That they're taking back away, but I guess they never did- have it and the poor seven people that.

I

Applied for it are not going to probably get it unless they grandfather them, and so.

I

uh I'm just I I don't totally agree with it, but yeah. You know because it is a landowner.

I

Right and I think it's something that unless something magical changes.

I

About solar, uh we're going to end up dealing with much larger projects in the future.

D

So just a couple things, so I think you just made a good point there. um Mr huff, you know the.

D

Wording up, here's for two different things: support board direction or recommend keeping.

D

It, as is, but there are other options you could make other recommendations and.

D

Maybe one of the recommendations is and grandfather into so support. The board's.

D

Direction but grandfather and projects and process I mean that is entirely up to this.

D

Body to make a different recommendation than what's listed here, and I would also suggest.

D

um And I would like uh or turn it away in on this, mr ahmed, mr robertson, since he was part.

D

Of the work group, if he should be recusing himself from the discussion after the motion's been made.

E

um I think that would be appropriate.

J

I'd like to remind you, sir, though, that the there was no recommendation that came out of that report.

J

The report the report itself was.

K

You know I can, as the attorney for the board.

A

Okay, I I believe ralph, you can um speak your thoughts now, but um we're talking about if the.

A

Commission makes a recommendation. Is that correct? That was correct. I believe my understanding would.

D

Be- and I would again have um mr almond weigh in that once the motion has been.

D

Made- and you call for discussion after that motion that would be the time then.

D

um For for recusal, and not to vote um recuse yourself from the vote, okay, yeah.

A

I've I've had that many times myself.

A

um Okay, hey gentlemen:.

A

Thoughts, stephen.

L

I mean I, I definitely agree with what matt is saying a lot.

L

You know, and obviously, in this political climate, with a lot of the green energy initiatives.

L

um You know, like you said I mean I certainly want to make sure that you know you can't.

L

Just come in, like I said with a you know: 200 acre solar, you know solar project so.

A

I do think it was limited in size, correct, brenda right, but well. The current.

K

And then and then energy generated and then the actual amount of space it took on the.

K

Land is limited to impact that 20 acres to include everything associated, such as.

K

um The fence, the landscape, the access road, all of that needed to be included.

D

Excuse if I can just interject and and tell what um I think this might answer your question.

D

um Mr smith is this is only for community solar. This does not preclude an energy company coming.

D

In and doing a large-scale solar facility, it's this only controls the smaller scale, the county.

D

Has the ability for community solar to regulate location once it is over that megawattage? Then we.

D

Do not have that, ideally, we lose our local lane use autonomy when it comes to citing we still.

D

Retain the ability for different bulk requirements and landscaping, but this is specifically for.

D

Community solar, which is the smaller soil, which we have the ability to determine location but energy.

D

Generating beyond that community solar mango wattage, that is under the control of the public.

D

Service commission, so you would not be changing those types of projects they can still go forward.

D

um In the ad sets, okay, understood, understood somebody that has a.

A

Hundred acre farm that um a company wanted to come in and do what you're saying could be done.

K

If they could get approval from the maryland public service commission, then.

K

Yes, okay, but currently, but currently the county code only allows a commercial solar.

I

On commercial ground or industrial, doesn't it.

A

That's a community seller, but not what linda was just talking about. So even though we've made.

D

Allowances in our zoning district for um utility and and energy, generating um regardless of size in.

D

The commercial zones at certain commercial zones and the um industrial zone right- you can do that.

D

Within with any small or large doesn't matter in those districts, but outside of a certain mango.

D

Wattage, the energy generating larger scale again, local lanius authority and zoning does not apply.

D

They can cite that anywhere that the public service commission, it's a rigorous process.

D

I don't want to make it seem like the public service commission, rubber stamps things that.

D

They determine a need and they determine the site is appropriate and they go through their public.

D

Hearing process, then they will let that energy or that utility move forward with a project.

K

Okay- and I think, just to clarify the community solar- we're capping it at two megawatts here.

K

The state cap is five megawatts, so I think some of the concern that was expressed is.

K

That um one of these solar developers could decide they're going to increase the size of.

K

Their projects, you need a certificate of public convenience and necessity from a public service.

K

Commission for anything over 2 megawatts, so they could. Would you know the thought as they could.

K

Increase the size of their community solar project requiring them to get a certificate.

K

Of public convenience and necessity or cpcn, and then the public service commission would be able.

K

To approve even a community solar facility, so that was some of the discussion that you know.

K

Maybe confusing things too, because there isn't a possibility of community who are being approved.

K

By the public service commission, if they go with a larger size than what we have it at.

K

Now, if they'll do that or not is a different question, they have the authority to do that.

K

I don't believe that they try to override the local jurisdiction. You know on a regular basis.

A

So if somebody wanted to, they would have the right then to be able to try to do that.

A

On a larger scale, okay right.

A

Everybody got that.

A

Matt, I see your yeah yeah, I'm unmuted, but I don't have any more comment on it. Okay,.

A

um So do we need to give you a response tonight is that you're asked.

K

uh If, if you believe you can, you know, you know decide as the commission tonight what.

K

Direction you'd like to recommend- and you know we're certainly open to doing.

K

That otherwise, if you need more time, we can also come back to you as well.

K

um Ultimately, we'll be looking for, you know if you, whatever your recommendation, is.

K

You know if it's not to support the board decision, then.

K

You know you might not have discussion too in terms of what you want to include in your.

K

Recommendation to the board as to why you want to make the recommendation that you do.

A

I I think um I don't forget about you at the moment on that so, um but I welcome a motion or.

A

Somebody to say I'd rather wait until the next meeting discuss some more um open.

J

uh Man, can I make a comment? Yes, you can. um I would be very reluctant to make a recommendation now.

J

If you open the door to those two particular projects that were.

J

Were not even in the pipeline yet. um I think the ramifications of that are much greater.

J

Than we might perceive them to be, that's the only cautionary thing I can say at this point.

A

Were they part of the technical review.

A

Have they already been through that I think staff can answer that better than I can.

K

Which two are you referring to ralph.

J

There were two projects that chris projects: there were two projects that chris kept referring to as.

J

Farther, along than the other than the other, the seven- and um I don't have the paperwork in front.

J

Of me here had gobs of it, but uh there were two projects that were a little bit farther along than.

J

The others almost the point of submitting them, and uh but I I would I would be very cautioned.

J

Put a cautionary point on this to you know, jumping into the fray here and making a recommendation to.

J

Accept the two or the seven or whichever ones you're talking about here, I don't have that.

J

Paper in front of me, but uh I think we're a little premature on this um I just got. uh I was privy to.

J

A report out of a another jurisdiction that had a 10-page or ordinance that uh commissioner garon.

J

Referred to [music] um a a municipality, a county down next to mecklenburg county in north carolina.

J

They're grappling with the same thing, they came up with a 10-page ordinance that just dealt with this.

J

um So I I just think we're a little premature on this. I think we're getting the we might be.

J

Throwing the baby out with the wash water here um in this whole process.

J

I'm sorry, I can't hear you are you, referring specifically to a recommendation from the planning.

K

Commission regarding the grandfathering- I am okay, you don't mean necessarily whether to support.

K

Or recommend keeping it, but the grandfather's portion of it I'm talking about grandfathering, yes,.

A

A

um I think I think I fall on the side, um property rights, um no matter what they are.

A

I think I feel like we are not quite ready to make a decision.

A

um By reading you all correctly.

I

um To another meeting.

J

H

Yeah, I I I'm in agreement. I think we need to discuss this a little bit further. uh It's a.

H

Hot topic, no question: we saw the tremendous community uh response to the commissioners.

H

Public meetings, um the the issue with uh setback, has always been concern of our our board. um 40.

H

Feet isn't coming, you know just picking a setback, that's just not enough. 40 feet is hell. It's.

H

Nothing uh for these things and the aesthetics is really what gets the community in an uproar. I.

H

Think the the um I think we also on the other side. We all understand that look. This is the future.

H

um And the grid the power grid, the current grid um is, you know, from what we read and see is not.

H

Sustainable um the other side, if there's three sides, uh technology advancements are.

H

Fantastic, uh the solar panel of today probably will be the size of a 19 inch tv in five or ten.

H

Years so you know there's a lot of stuff here and I I agree. I think it's uh you know it's.

H

It's uh we should table this for for another time, but I need to get more information. Okay, stephen.

L

uh 100 in agreement, I think that, uh like I said, there's there's just a lot of moving.

L

Parts to it right now and we need everything we can to make sure we we get it right: okay, okay,.

A

Yes, go ahead, chris, yes, thank you. um If I could just ask lou we'd be more than.

E

Happy to bring this back um before you for further discussion. Is there any additional.

E

Information that we could provide to you in the interim to help you with the discussion.

I

um One concern that I had just thinking back.

I

uh You know something different, but I think down in uh lower carroll county. There was a.

I

Lawsuit that came back against the county that costa county a lot of money because they kind of.

I

Allowed something and then they changed their mind at the at some point along the line that uh was.

I

Very costly to the county, probably what five or ten years ago, I think, um could something like that.

I

Happen with this, with the people that are farther along and have spent a lot of money already.

E

So I can answer that so um uh maryland as a state is what's considered a late vesting.

E

um State, which means that uh a developer is not fully vested in their project until they put.

E

Shovel in the ground is one way to think about it, so um sure anybody can sue for anything, but.

E

um But as a policy maryland is a late vesting, so there's not an um that vesting.

E

Does not occur until all approvals have been achieved and the shovel goes on the ground.

A

um Okay, I hear what you say, but you are right: anybody can sue.

A

For anything which then of course, drags things to another level, so.

A

um I think we all agree that we want to wait and discuss it next, so but yeah.

G

One of the, where did where are the uh the standards it seems like.

H

We're operating from standards that were developed somewhere.

H

The 15 foot height, where is that a to answer your question? More information.

H

Where's that 15 foot come from. Where does the 40-foot setback setback come.

H

From is that from the solar companies saying their recommendations? Is that.

H

What kind of research is a research based that would help? I think yes,.

E

I'm sorry monday, I'm sorry so um so what you're referring to is what's in the current code, what's.

E

In in 158, 153 e, as part of the the county code and and just to to clarify again for everybody,.

E

um We're not looking for um the commission to come up with recommendations on changes to that.

E

Code, really it's just an up or down yes or no. Do you agree with the county commissioner's.

E

Desire to remove that section of the code which allows community solar, commercial type, solar on.

E

Ag remaining portions, so that's really the only decision that we're looking from you all. If you.

E

Say yes, we agree that this should be removed. That's the extent of the information we need.

E

If you feel that no community solar does belong on the ag in the ag district, um you can provide that.

E

As a response to the board of county commissioners, with some reasons, why so that's really the only.

E

Discussion or the only answer, we're looking for the commissioners have have expressed.

E

um That their their desire is to remove the code so getting into the details of you like this.

E

Setback or that setback or any of that it's kind of a moot point. um It's really an up or down type.

E

Support or or offer a differing opinion to the county commissioners, so hopefully that clarifies.

E

Things for everybody, yeah, okay! I I um understand that, but that's a little contrary to what linda.

A

Said she did say there was an option about the grandfather and if that's what we thought so.

A

That that, I think, is where um the members are having a little bit of trouble grappling with this.

A

So understood understood yes, okay, all right, okay! Well, thank you, brenda for your presentation and.

A

um I suspect we will see you in a few weeks. I think that you will thank you, okay, thank you.

A

All right um next up is the economic development and land use study.

A

I believe linda and um andrew yes, um so, as you have uh been seen periodically, we've.

D

Been coming before you just updating you on the economic and development land use.

D

Study that planning is working on as part of its preparation for the next general development plan.

D

um So with us this evening are consultants, martin smith, ben valentine and jordan howard to go over.

D

With you, the most recent findings from our public participation efforts, our different focus groups.

D

And interviews so with that, I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to our consulting team.

D

To present all of that information to you uh and I think drew has a beginning part of.

D

A presentation he would like to start so drew if you could share your screen with that. That.

D

Would be great yeah, so if the control line will let me have access to sharing my screen.

K

M

All right um just to go over real brief before I head it over to our consultants, the economic.

M

Development and land use study- this has come before you uh once before. It's been to the county.

M

Commissioners, a couple times from department of planning linda and myself, paige from department.

M

Of economic development and then a county consultant with courtney, powell, martin smith,.

M

Erica and ben and newly added is the team from john stover and associates john leslie and jordan.

M

A couple of them are on the call, and that is all I have linda. I will um turn it over to martin.

N

Hello, everyone can you guys hear me? Yes, okay, uh well, first off, I wanted to take a quick moment.

N

To thank linda for all of her hard work with this project. uh We are very, very sad to hear.

N

That you are are going to be shifting into a new position, but I'm I'm sure that you're going to to.

N

Be great wherever it is that you you end up, um I wanted to also make sure that I thank andrew and.

N

Paige for all of the work that they've done with this project as well, they've they've really been.

N

Invaluable in in making this a much easier process, uh I am joined on the call by ben valente uh and.

N

By jordan from jsna, um if we have any specific questions, they'll be available right afterwards to.

N

uh Answer any of those that that may arise uh and for those of you who were here previously uh and.

N

Remember: courtney powell from wgi as the one who was uh presenting as the project manager at that.

N

Point in time uh I wanted to let you guys know that she is out on family leave right now. She.

N

Had a a beautiful baby girl a couple of weeks ago, and we expect her to come back within the next few.

N

Weeks so when she does get back, she'll be resuming as the ppm on the project. So if you notice there's.

N

A little uh transition there I just wanted to make sure everyone had a heads up on that.

N

Let's go on andrew to the next slide. uh Okay, so uh this is is just a quick recap. I know that there's.

N

Some new folks on the uh planning and zoning committee, uh so I wanted to give everyone an.

N

Opportunity to see what it is that we're working on as andrew and linda had both said. uh This is a.

N

Precursor to the 2025 general development plan, uh so what we're really looking at right now are what.

N

Are some of the existing conditions in carroll county? uh How does that relate to some of the.

N

Peer counties around you guys, uh where are some of the opportunities that you guys, can explore.

N

Further in that 2025 general development plan, so we're really uh putting together that baseline.

N

Assessment right now on uh what some of some of your existing options or some of your existing.

N

Conditions are on what some of your future options are going to be uh andrew next slide.

N

Okay, so where are we on the project timeline? uh We got started with the project. Last fall.

N

uh In october, we are right now in the draft economic development and land use.

N

Study phase of the process, um we have done a significant data collection component.

N

um To public open houses, which we'll talk about a little bit more in just a moment, uh and we have.

N

Been drafting all of the different segments of the the report as we've been going along, we've.

N

Been getting some really great feedback uh from linda and paige and andrew and their teams and.

N

We are now compiling all of that into a complete document. We will be producing the draft document.

N

uh To uh linda's team within the next couple of weeks and then I believe we are scheduled to come.

N

Back before the the pcc in andrew, do you know when, when that is, is that august or september.

M

We'll get back in touch with you, I don't know the specific date off the top of my head. It may be in.

M

August um but I'll look and- and we can get back to everyone on that- martin, okay, uh but at a one.

N

Of your future meetings, we will be coming back and uh talking with you guys about the final.

N

Component, uh so I hope that you will all take the opportunity to read through everything that.

N

We are are putting together before we get to that next meeting. uh Let's jump on to our next slide.

N

So what have we gotten done so far and and what still remains uh phase one? We went through the.

N

Communications plan, the project management plan uh we developed the brand for the the.

N

Project uh did a county-wide site visit tour and our first public open house uh phase two.

N

We did a series of stakeholder interviews, we also had some small focus groups uh and then.

N

We have been working on the asset mapping, the peer benchmarking assessment, legal and regulatory and.

N

The demographic zoning and land use analysis uh phase three is going to be compiling all of.

N

These things into the draft document uh getting some feedback internally from the department at.

N

That point uh and then there will be a public comment period and then we'll be producing a.

N

Finalized version of that document uh at the very end of the project, let's go on to the next one.

N

So what public engagement has occurred? To date, uh we have had 13 key stakeholder interviews.

N

Three focus groups: uh the business climate survey, two open house surveys, a student.

N

Survey uh and a total of 345 participants in that part of the project, um what we don't have.

N

Included in that number are all of the various different one-on-one conversations that we've.

N

Had through emails and phones and and teams calls with specific individuals who who we.

N

Brought in to handle particular components of the project, uh let's go on to the next slide.

N

So what was at uh public open house number one? uh The first public open house was back in february.

N

um And the objective there was really to see from a citizen perspective in the county. What.

N

Are the assets that they see as as significant and of great value to the community? uh Where are.

N

Some of those opportunities that they perceive um we achieved that, through dot voting and through.

N

Some mapping exercises uh and the results of that were something that was consistent with what we.

N

Expected um the number one asset that everyone uh said that carroll county had was your small.

N

Business community and the number two asset was your open space and recreational opportunities.

N

And those are things that we certainly expected. We would see with a community with carroll county's.

N

um Assets and and excuse me, uh you know specific features and demographics. uh Let's go on into our.

N

Next slide here: uh public open house number two was in late april, and this one took a slightly.

N

Different uh approach, we wanted to really kind of zero in on some of those economic development.

N

Components uh and so our team came up with um sort of a monopoly, themed series of presentation boards.

N

That were very popular. There were 11 of those boards that were all industry specific and what.

N

We wanted to talk about with that was a general summary of that industry. uh What the future of.

N

That industry might look like in carroll county moving forward. What some of the opportunities.

N

Were and what some of the considerations were all of the participants were given a hundred.

N

And twenty dollars in monopoly money that they were allowed to spend or invest in the different.

N

Industries uh depending on which ones they would like to see more of about the same uh or less of.

N

uh And what we saw there was actually very interesting if we can jump into the next slide.

N

So these are the number of votes by industry uh and the slide after this we'll talk about.

N

The dollar amount, so people had the option with each of these different boards to either invest.

N

A 20 bill, a ten dollar bill or a five dollar bill. The twenty dollar bills is the dark green.

N

That you see down at the very bottom, uh the ten dollars is that medium green and the five.

N

Dollars is that uh lighter colored green and we saw a consistent with public, open house.

N

Number one: a substantial preference for small business incubation as one of the key economic.

N

Development drivers that the citizens really wanted to see more of uh within carroll county.

N

And that's something that we saw both by votes and on the next slide in just a second you'll, see.

N

Also by the total amount invested, um agricultural production was a very close second ag. Tech was a.

N

Very close third, uh and then towards the uh lower end, were things like defense, contracting biotech.

N

uh Drones, uh distribution, warehousing things along those lines, um but one thing that was interesting.

N

Was that there was a level of support for all of these different uh industries? It's just obviously.

N

That some people preferred certain ones over others. So let's go on into our next one here.

N

So this is looking at the the amount of total votes by the dollar amount that they voted with.

N

uh We can see small business incubation still very much at the top ag tech and agriculture production.

N

Right behind it, uh drone and autonomous logistics distribution warehousing uh still getting a a.

N

Very respectable amount of votes, uh but just not quite as intense as we saw with.

N

Things from itn data going upwards hospitality and agritourism agricultural technology, agricultural.

N

Production and small business incubation, uh so let's go on to our next one here.

N

I'm not going to read all of the the comments to you guys, but uh we wanted to just give you a.

N

Sampling of some of the types of feedback that we got, um some of it was obviously very positive, but.

N

Some of the group was a little bit more negative. uh I wanted to make sure that we we showed all of.

N

This to you guys so that you can see that we are taking into account and factoring in all of the.

N

Different viewpoints uh that we have encountered throughout this process, the one in the lower right.

N

In particular uh was one that was representative of something that we heard more than once.

N

um But I think that all of these are are indicative of the the types of things that we.

N

Have have seen uh throughout all of these public engagement efforts. uh Let's go on to our next one.

N

So the draft study sections uh these are the ones that we are wrapping up right now and getting.

N

Ready to start compiling into the final document, in fact, I think we've already started compiling.

N

Some of these, um and all of these are going to be the the study sections that you'll be able.

N

To read in the draft of the document, as soon as that's completed uh the uh staff team that we've.

N

Been working with have already seen drafts of of most of these, uh let's go into our next one.

N

So what are our next steps? uh We will be continuing to develop the draft study.

N

Between now and the end of this month, early july, we'll be turning that over to the staff uh and.

N

They will be preparing for a public comment and review period, then in later july, and into august.

N

We will revise as necessary, based on whatever it is that we get in that final public comment period.

N

And we'll be preparing a final study document uh that we will be coming back.

N

And presenting both to this group and also to the board of county commissioners next step.

N

uh So questions, uh if you guys have anything that that comes up, that you either don't want.

N

To discuss in this particular forum or anything that you just think of later on uh my email and.

N

My phone number are right: there, courtney's are also down below. But again, as I mentioned, courtney.

N

Is out on maternity leave, uh so she might not be able to get back to you as quickly if you send.

N

Things to her, so if there is something you're sending to her, please do cc me on it for the.

N

Next, couple of weeks, uh until she is back in the office and back up to speed and ready to go uh at.

N

This point: I will turn it over to the group and if there are any questions right now that I can.

N

Answer for you guys uh any any specific things that anyone wants to to hear any more about.

D

I just want to say a lot of great work and creativity frankly has gone into this project.

D

I really appreciate the teams and willingness to try new things. We were the first jurisdiction.

D

Group that you've worked with the monopoly was at play. We got great feedback from that. A lot.

D

Of participation, um as um as we said, you know, we had our first event at exploration, commons.

D

Which was really successful um in the winter time and then our april meeting we didn't have.

D

As many people show up as we would have liked to exploration, commons was a lot of competing.

D

um Interest that particular evening so we went to where the people were, because we.

D

Have this great setup of boards and monopoly money to really engage in the process so.

D

We took it to our budget and management. Public hearing had great response. There.

D

um And to the tawny town, business breakfast as well as the online presence, so we're really.

D

Thrilled with the responses that we have received, and the really great frank discussion that the.

D

Team has had with the various focus groups and individual participants, so I want to thank martin.

D

And his team um and jordan and ben, and all for all the great work that they've done on this project.

N

You know that's so kind of you to say. Thank you very much. uh The the monopoly boards is one that.

N

I'm I'm particularly proud of the team that was all uh ben and erica coming up with that and doing.

N

All of the design work for it, uh you know it can be, it can be challenging to get the the public.

N

To want to really engage with topics like uh you know, economic development and land use initiatives.

N

It's one of the things that's uh uh somewhat less controversial than a lot of the other.

N

Types of things that people get to to go to public meetings about uh so we have to to constantly be.

N

On our toes trying to come up with creative ways to keep people excited and engaged and get them to.

N

Want to participate and keep coming back, uh so you guys have have a really great community.

N

My we have some some property in adjacent frederick county, and so I spend a lot of time.

N

Up in the carroll county area, uh and- and I just love- I just love it- there- the people there are.

N

Great you've got some really great restaurants uh and some some beautiful, beautiful vistas.

A

Thank you for the kind words and thank you for your excellent report. um We look forward to seeing.

A

It go forward so, of course uh I will hang around in case there's any uh public comment. I noticed.

N

That at the end of the agenda, um but if there are any questions for ben or jordan, uh I'd love to try.

N

And get those in now there's a way, gentlemen, and he questions well I'll, be hanging around till the.

N

End of the meeting in case there are any other any other final thoughts. Thank you. Everyone. Thank you.

A

Okay, moving on item 10, the annual report- tiffany plastic yeah, so tiffany will be presenting to you.

D

As it says, the annual report, this is a report that we um do for the maryland department of planning.

D

um It's part of the uh state land use article that we produce this report on the building.

D

um And development activities of the prior year, this really dovetails in nicely with the board.

D

Of education facilities, master plan that you heard earlier this evening and the concurrency.

D

Management report um so with that tiffany has worked really hard over the past year as.

D

Well, as other staff in our municipalities, we not only do this for the county um area, but also all.

D

Of our municipalities, we get the information from them and we compile compile it into one.

D

Concise document to meet the requirements for everyone, so I'm going to go ahead and pass it.

D

Over to tiffany to share um her presentation this evening. Thank you. Thank you. Can you hear me? Okay,.

D

Are you not able to hear me yep, we can hear you, but it just says, go to.

D

Meeting on the screen, so if you can just pull up your presentation thing.

G

And it's really scream and.

A

D

There we go wonderful, hopefully everyone has already received a.

D

Copy of the planning annual report um and.

D

Oh, my controls are not working on my screen here. Oh there we go so I will be coming um before you.

D

Tonight, for just the introduction and on the 20th I'll be back in front of the commission asking.

D

For a letter of certification for the end for the information pertaining to the county in the annual.

D

Report, if you have any questions tonight, please feel free to interrupt me um and if they can we'll.

D

Answer them tonight and if we can't we'll just jot it down and I'll bring back um answers on the 20th.

D

So the purpose of the annual report is, it is a state requirement.

D

um In the land use article under the um maryland annotated code of maryland, and it is.

D

It it tells them sorry. The purpose of the inner report is to tell the planning and development.

D

Activities for the last calendar year and all of these items that are under listed on this.

D

um Page are the things that we will be going through that are listed in the annual report.

D

This report includes information for carroll, county and all eight of the municipalities.

D

The municipal development information and data and data is provided by town staff, and this is.

D

A multi-agency effort and those um names that are involved- it's a full page of names, listed.

D

At the beginning of the report, right after the table of contents and before the introduction.

D

Based on the land use, article development related activities are to be consistent.

D

With the local adopted plans and should implement the 12 state planning, visions.

D

Those are also found in the carroll county comprehensive plan as well.

D

So the annual report starts this year with a new edition. That is the at a glance that.

D

Just kind of goes over the um the areas that are covered within the report uh just so it's just.

D

At a glance, and if you needed more information, you can go to the table of contents, see where.

D

That's located in the plan and the report and then go find it in the report for more detailed.

D

Information, but this was just information at a glance and that's located on page two.

D

Pages 3 through 13 are new plans and planned amendments, and that includes maps one through nine.

D

For plan amendments there were no new plans, but there were several amendments.

D

To the carroll county, water and sewer master plan that became effective in 2022 as part.

D

Of the fall 2021 and spring 2022 amendment cycle, these amendments pertain to the town.

D

Of manchester the city of westminster, town of union bridge freedom area, the.

D

Town of hampstead they each have zoomed in maps located um maps one through seven and.

D

Then there are county-wide maps that you can view on pages eight and nine.

D

Pages 14 through 18 are the site plans and subdivisions approved in.

D

2022- and they include tables one through four, as well as map 10.

D

Tables one through four are summarized here with the approved site plans and subdivisions.

D

For residential there was a total of 30 new lots, approved 158 units, 202.71 acres.

D

Out of that there was the county had 27 new lots and the municipalities consisted of tiny.

D

Town and westminster with three new lots: there were also 215.18 acres of non-residential site.

D

Plans and subdivisions approved the counties consisted of 182.08 acres and municipalities.

D

That have that contributed to that is was were mount airy, sykesville, 20, town union.

D

Bridge in westminster, with a total combined of 33.1 acres of non-residential site plans,.

D

And subdivisions approved map 10 shows those subdivisions and site plans approved on page 18.

D

Here in just the presentation, but not in the plan, we're showing the residential.

D

Development 10-year trend for the county only this does not include municipalities.

D

And that's showing that 27 approved plans last year residential approved last year, lots.

D

And this is the non-residential over the last 10 years again, not in the report itself. But just in.

D

The presentation for your uh view here and that does not include the municipalities again but.

D

There was a 182 acres, approximately that were approved um for non-residential development.

D

And that just shows what it looks like over the last 10 years.

D

Pages 19 through 21 show the zoning map amendments, and that includes tables five and six, as well as.

D

Maps map 11. table five is the annexations and it shows that there were five annexations total.

D

One in hampstead, one in tiny town, one in union bridge and two in westminster last year.

D

Rezonings are shown in table six on page 20 and there were four rezonings last year.

D

A single property in the freedom area had.

D

Split zone rezoning here and that's why it's so long there and then there was also rezoning.

D

In carroll county for two properties and then one in hampstead.

D

The zoning map amendment um can be shown on they're shown in math.

D

11 on page 21, that includes the annexations and rezonings.

D

Pages 22 through 30 are for changes that involve zoning text. Amendments amendments to.

D

Pfa boundaries, new schools, transportation, apfos and park facilities, and it includes table seven.

D

In 2022 there were seven local ordinances that affected that were affecting future development.

D

In chapters 158 and 155- and they are summarized here but you'll- see on page on page 22,.

D

um That they are more in depth. They involve revisions to the residential districts.

D

Agricultural conservation, commercial, industrial, employment, campus and even.

D

Definitions for all the districts, several um and then processes for the zoning administrator.

D

Under the chapter 155, it included definition changes and restricted development to agri.

D

Agricultural remaining portions and configured even streamlining in that section as well.

D

There were seven municipalities that made revisions with 12 total local ordinances.

D

Affecting future development, there was one in hampstead four in mount airy. New windsor had.

D

One sykesville had one tiny town with two: there were two in union bridge and one in westminster.

D

Those can be seen more in depth on page 23 and a little bit on page 24.

D

So changes uh that involved amendments to the pfa boundaries, new schools, transportation, apfos.

D

Can be found on pages 25 through 27 for the pfa boundaries there were no changes for the.

D

Carroll county public schools, there was one constructed and opened that.

D

Was the 89 690 square foot, carroll, county career and technology center.

D

Changes to roadway network were primarily system, maintenance and local in nature, and those can be.

D

Seen on in tables listed in table seven on pages on page 26 to 27, and there were no development s.

D

That were modified due to apfo restrictions or adequate public facility ordinances.

D

Yeah changes to park facilities can be found on pages 27 through 20. I mean sorry through 30.

D

The county had no new park efforts made. However, efforts were focused on improving existing parks.

D

Hampstead had two improvements made to war memorial and main street and on.

D

Main street and chief sites park on lower beckleysville road new windsor had a new.

D

Burke added as fountain park, tawny town had conditional approval for a park that they.

D

Will be doing at bollinger park and they also had some improvements made to the roberts mill park.

D

Westminster had improvements mostly with adding uh pickleball court lines to king.

D

Park westminster city park and westminster family fitness center, as well as some renovations to the.

D

um The municipal school, a municipal pool mm-hmm, if we move forward to page 38.

D

Through 39 go over building permits issued, and that includes table 16 and map 13.

D

In 2022, the building permits issued was a total of 418 issued of those residential.

D

Inside the pfa was 248. residential outside the public. Sorry, the priority funding areas was 114.

D

Non-Residential building permits issued inside the priority funding areas was 40.

D

And non-residential building permits issued outside the priority funding areas was 16.

D

For the growth areas below the numbers are very similar to the pub to the priority funding areas.

D

Those 418 permits are mapped on page on map 13 on page 39.

D

Next pages, 40 through 42, show the new use and occupancy certificates issued.

D

That includes tables 17 and 18, as well as map 14.

D

There were total 578 use in occupancy or uno certificates issued in 2022 map. 17 shows the type.

D

Of uno issued and the district or municipality that they were issued in.

D

Table 18 is a summary of those with a total of 402 residential use and occupancy certificates issued.

D

Inside the priority funding area, 121 residential outside the priority funding area.

D

38 non-residential use and occupancy certificates were issued inside the pfa and 17 non-residential.

D

Were issued outside the pfa again, the growth area numbers are very close to the priority.

D

Funding area numbers and then there's just an at a glance that we've added for the.

D

Presentation here what those numbers kind of look like inside and outside the areas.

D

The 578 uh you and o certificates issued you can see that in map 14, uh and that is on page.

D

42, however, it does, it is a little deceiving that it does not look like that. Many uh 570.

D

And delivered was yes uh dots, but if you zoom in you can see that um several of the dots will.

D

Be almost right over each other, where those units- maybe they could be apartments or there.

D

Could be townhouses and each one would get its own, uh its own use and occupancy certificate.

D

So, residential use and occupancy certificates county-wide: this is the trend over the last.

D

10 years, including 528 in 2022, sorry, 523 and 20 22, and this uptick of the.

D

Last few years, we know that there was a lot of building going on in taneytown.

D

And so I'm pretty sure that contributed to those numbers. Looking that high over the last few years.

D

Non-Residential uno certificates county-wide over the last 10 years.

D

um This looks pretty high right here and compared to the last 10 years that it's at 55 last year.

D

We're not sure we're going to wait and if uh see what happens, maybe it's an anomaly. Last.

D

Year there were only 10 which was pretty low, so maybe some came in at the beginning of the year.

D

That would have been at the end of 2021 with the supply constraints and such we're not sure.

D

Pages 44 through 48 show the development capacity analysis.

D

And that includes tables 20 through 24 maps, 15 and 16, and we also refer.

D

To the development capacity analysis as the buildable land inventory for the bli.

D

So tables 20 through 22 on pages 44 through 46, shows the existing and potential developable.

D

Residential lots so for existing units, these are ones that are already developed. There's a.

D

Total of 66 229 units, 55 of that is existing dwelling units inside the priority funding.

D

Areas and 45 are outside very similar numbers to the growth areas as well for potential lots.

D

Lots that have not been developed yet there's a total there's, an estimated total of 18 932.

D

9 39 of those potential lots are inside the tfa and 61 are outside the pfa. The.

D

Mga numbers are slightly different there with 44 of the dwelling units inside and.

D

56 outside I'm sorry, that should say lots not dwelling units. There choice and you.

D

Can see that mapped the potential residential development is mapped on in map 15. on page 46.

D

Tables 23 through 24 on pages 47 and 40, h to the existing and potential developable.

D

Non-Residential acreage for existing acreage that is developed, there is 4897 acres, 82.

D

Percent of that existing acreage is inside the priority funding areas and 18 is outside.

D

For the potential developable acreage, there's a total of estimated total of 3536 acres with 80 87.

D

Percent of that potential acreage inside the pfa and 13 being outside the pfa and again there is a.

D

Map showing the potential of non-residential development, that's map 16 on page 48.,.

D

This is the agricultural land preservation on pages 49 through 50, and that includes tables 25.

D

And 26, as well as map 17., the 2022 agricultural land preservation activity, was 892 acres, which.

D

Included 14 farms were preserved agricultural land since 1979 a total of 77, 487, acres or 77.5.

D

Percent of land preserve has of land has been preserved for agricultural use and the 77.5.

D

Percent is of the 100 000 acre goal that carroll county has. There were 7 million 67 112 dollars.

D

Committed to agricultural preservation based off fiscal year, 2022 and 59 of that were county funds.

D

Map 17 shows the land preservation easements for 2022 on page 50.

D

And here's what that looks like over the last five years.

D

With 892 acres being preserved in 2022.

D

This is just this is not in the report. This is just in the presentation. This shows the.

D

Development and easements over the last five years from 2018 to 2022, with the ag pres the.

D

Preserved agricultural land in the darker blue in the five years and then the the.

D

Other two are stacked. It is approved residential development and approved.

D

Non-Residential development, so development is shown next to the ag preservation. There.

D

So the next steps this year, all eight municipalities, have already certified.

D

Their information, it is included in the report before sending it to the county they've all also.

D

Seen the copy of the draft, there were a few minor changes that have now been implemented included in.

D

The one that you are now seeing uh next, the county will come back to the county playing commission on.

D

The 20th asking first letter of certification for the information pertaining to the county. That is.

D

In the report and then after that, we will send a final report to mdp or the maryland department.

D

Of planning and and we will send another one through the board of county commissioners before.

D

We distribute it to all the municipalities and make it available to the public online.

D

Are there any questions.

A

I believe that is quite extensive. Thank you for that. Anybody have any questions here.

G

I don't they report a lot of no question but good report, a lot of good information. Thank you.

D

Thank you and thank you for bearing with me, through my jitters at the beginning,.

D

I appreciate that you did something. Thank you so, okay, next we will and we will see you back next.

A

um Meeting too so 11 is general comment. Do we have anybody on here.

D

Control arm is there any public? We don't recall anyone signing up perch the meeting, so don't.

D

Believe, there's any general public here this evening, I'm not seeing any in the screen, but.

A

Okay steven did you have something you wanted to say: no, no, no, no, no, no, no! No, no, okay, everything.

L

Was uh everything was good? Okay? All right, um then we were to number 12 adjournment.

A

Our next meetings june 20th tuesday, at 9 00 a.m in the reagan: room, zero, zero, three.

A

And we won't have linda, but we will have mr hunt. Oh looking forward. Yes, looking forward.

A

To seeing everybody, then thank you. Thank you linda for everything and uh good luck. Yeah. You.

H

Know your uh new venture is their gain and our loss. Oh. Thank you so much. I appreciate.

D

It certainly miss you great working with you, I'm going to miss you all too take care thanks. So much.

A

Thanks. Thank you. Okay, good night, gentlemen yeah. We.

H

Need a motion for adjournment, yeah? Okay: I think we forgot that part.

H

A second okay, all in favor, all right all right all right, then thank you and.

A

I thought I was going to get through scot-free, but great job janice tonight.