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A
D
A
A
But
it
it
it
it's
up
to
to
get
the
planning
Set
portion
of
the
town's
business,
which
is
relatively
small,
56
million
dollar
budget
this
year
and
the
the
planning
a
portion
of
that
financially
is
very
small.
But
it
is
probably
the
most
thing
that
draws
the
most
interest
in
town
because
of
the
changes
that
go
on
and
everybody's
natural
reluctance
to
see
change
just
want
to
go
over
a
little
bit
about
tonight
about
the
agenda.
First
thing
is
we're
going
to
have
a
legal
orientation.
A
That's
going
to
be
brief
to
to
kind
of
set
the
stage
and
we're
going
to
have
comments
by
the
commission.
Any
commissioner
that
wants
to
say
a
few
words.
Are
we
able
to
do
at
that
time?
We'll
have
Council
comments
with
same
same
thing:
we're
trying
to
try
to
keep
this
meeting
down
to
two
hours,
if
possible
and
with
15
people
and
20
items,
and
it's
it's
going
to
be
a
challenge
to
make
this
productive
and
keep
it
moving.
A
Along
and
after
item
three
we'll
have
public
comment
on
the
the
proceedings
here.
So
the
public
can
weigh
in
what
they've
heard
and
what
they
would
like
to
see.
This
is
a
planning
session
at
the
request
of
council
members,
Rhodes
and
elkema
on
the
Planning
and
Zoning
codes,
including
the
the
Planning
Commission,
and
we
really
seek
input
from
the
volunteers,
both
commission
and
Council,
because
this
is
a
volunteer
driven
Town
who
recommend
and
approve
sedonian
subdivision
code
issues.
A
I
invite
active
participation,
I
hope
everybody
today
will
find
something
to
talk
about
at
some
point
here:
we'd
like
everybody
to
weigh
in
and
to
feel
comfortable
doing.
So
one
of
the
main
issue
is
a
staff
has
gone
out
and
asked
both
the
Planning
Commission
and
the
council
for
items
that
they
wish
to
see
changed
in
the
planning,
mostly
the
the
Planning
and
Zoning
playing
the
zoning
code
and
the
and
the
subdivision
code,
and
so
they
have
brought
this
list
down
to
those
major
categories.
A
I
want
to
make
a
special
point,
though
today
is
really
not
a
do
or
die.
This
does
not
supplant
any
of
the
normal
procedures.
There's
are
no
decisions,
no
actual
items
being
taken
today.
This
is
to
orient
planning,
so
they
can
put
together
a
program
that
can
come
back
for
approval
and
what's
going
to
come
back,
is
a
plan
with
dates
and
schedules
and
any
resources
needed
to
make
any
changes
that
are
by
consensus
today
and
then
that
will
have
to
be
approved
through
the
normal
channels.
A
Legal
is
here
today
to
set
the
stage
and
hopefully
keep
us
out
of
trouble.
I,
especially
caution,
all
officials
appointed
and
elected,
to
steer
clear
of
subjects
that
are
current
or
may
be
upcoming,
they're
really
they're,
not
on
the
agenda
today.
This
is
for
planning
and
zoning
and
the
code.
This
is
a
legal
process
for
being
televised,
we're
being
recorded,
and
no
one
wants
the
comments
to
hurt
the
town
and
the
court
case
down
the
road
and,
in
my
experience,
planning
is
the
area
of
the
Town
business
that
generates
the
most
legal
issues.
A
A
So
it's
it's
a
first
step
of
many
that
finally
comes
up
with
it.
With
an
actual
change
through
the
zoning
or
the
subdivision
codes,
we've
got
20
people
and
dozens
of
items.
So
it's
going
to
be
a
challenge.
I
guess
I
said
that
already
the
other
thing
is.
We
have
pads
of
paper
in
front
of
the
commission
and
council
members
that
if
there
is
an
item
that
is
that
has
come
up
since
or
some
of
the
items
are
so
broad
that
I
can't
figure
out
what
they
mean.
A
E
Mr
Mayor,
chairman
reckner
members
of
the
commission
and
members
of
the
council
I'm
here
as
your
town
attorney
and
I,
also
am
through
the
risk
pool
I
advise
seven,
all
77
cities
and
towns
on
land
use.
They
can
call
me
Kristen,
is
here
my
partner
because
she
is
the
one
who
has
to
litigate
when
cities
and
towns
screw
up.
I
I
must
tell
you,
though,
when
this
was
scheduled.
It
got
com,
it
conflicts
with
both
a
medical
appointment
that
I
had
and
a
council
meeting
I
have
with
a
different
Council.
E
E
E
And
so
one
goal
tonight
is
to
tell
all
three
of
you,
the
staff,
the
commission
and
the
council.
Three
good
reasons
why
you
need
to
figure
out
a
way
to
work
together.
One
is
so
that
you
don't
absolutely
bar
development
like
other
cities
and
towns
and
encourage
legislators
to
deny
you
the
ability
to
Zone.
E
Secondly,
you
have
insurance
coverage
for
this,
but
if
you
do
something,
that's
contrary
expressly,
contrary
to
statute,
you
could
lose
coverage
and
Kristen
won't
be
able
to
well.
She
might
be
able
to
defend
you.
She
won't
be
able
to
have
the
pool
to
indemnify
you,
and
so
the
right
answer
is
is
to
make
sure
you
try
to
follow
the
rules,
and
the
third
is,
the
third
is,
is
if
you
can't
figure
out
a
way
to
adopt
rules
like
you've
done
for
sober
living
and
like
we're
trying
to
do
for
for
short-term
rentals.
E
You
could
end
up
with
unregulated
uses
in
your
community,
and
the
one
element
of
Cave
Creek
is
how
attractive
it
is.
One
reason
that
the
commission
was
able
to
unanimously
propose
sober
living
regulations
was
that
Prescott
was
exporting
all
of
their
Sober
Living
homes
to
you,
and
you
had
attractive
residences
with
upscale
sober
living,
trying
trying
to
have
such
such
Enterprises,
and
so
those
are
three
good
reasons
why
we
need
to
figure
out
a
way
to
work
together.
Now,
Kristin
is
going
to
quote
from
your
zoning
code
as
to
what
your
powers
are.
F
But
I
I
just
want
to
point
out
that
the
purpose
and
scope
of
you
know
what's
listed
in
the
ordinance,
is
dictated
by
Statute,
and
so
that's
in
Title
IX,
there's
one
chapter
on
planning,
one
chapter
on
zoning
and
one
chapter
on
subdivision
and
so
those
form
kind
of
the
overall
Universe
of
what
you
can
do
within
each
of
those
types
of
categories
planning
being
more.
The
general
plan,
zoning
and
subdivision.
So
your
zoning
ordinance.
Following
from
what
it's
per
you
know,
you're
permitted
as
municipality
to
do
for
zoning.
F
The
purpose
and
scope
of
zoning
is
to
promote
the
public
health
and
safety
first
and
foremost,
and
the
general
welfare
of
the
citizens
of
the
Town
provide.
This
is
really
key,
provide
the
minimum
requirements
for
implementation
of
the
vision,
goal,
goals,
objectives
outlined
and
adopted
in
your
general
plan
guide
and
manage
regulate
future
growth
and
development.
Protect
private
property
rights.
F
Preserve
the
character
of
the
town
and
ensure
Financial
stability
of
the
town,
so
those
are
derived
then
from
the
statutory
Authority
for
the
zone
for
the
subdivision,
ordinance,
which
is
derived
from
another
chapter
in
the
statutes.
The
purpose
and
scope
is
to
provide
for
the
orderly
growth
and
harmonious
development
of
the
Town,
keeping
with
diverse
lifestyle,
rural
character
and
sensitive
environment.
Foster
preservation
of
the
natural
environment
and
habitat
ensure
adequate
track
traffic
circulation
through
coordinated
Street
systems
with
relation
to
major
thoroughfares
or
joining
subdivisions
and
public
facilities.
F
So
the
general
plan
outlines
the
vision
and
goals
the
zoning
regulates,
the
use
of
the
land
and
certain
other
requirements
like
setbacks
and
off
street
parking
and
then
subdivision
code
address
is
the
more
specific
planning
pieces
and
then,
as
Bill
mentioned,
the
Planning
Commission
is
in
addition
to
the
council
and
the
staff.
One
arm
of
that
is
permitted
by
the
statute
to
have
so
Title
IX
provides
that
you
may
have
a
planning
agency.
They
call
it
in
the
statute.
F
So
here
the
commission
primarily
advises
the
Town
Council
on
planning
zoning
policies,
plans,
amendments
regulations
as
authorized
by
Title
IX
and
the
ARs,
and
then
the
Title
IX
section
461
outlines
what
the
planning
agency
shall
do
includes
develop
and
maintain
a
general
plan
develop
specific
plans
as
may
be
necessary
to
implement
the
general
plan,
periodically
review,
Capital
Improvement
program
and
perform
other
planning
functions
as
the
legislative
body
May
provide.
So
that's
in
9-460-101,
and
then
planning
agency
may
also
have
additional
review.
F
An
exception
is
defined
in
your
subdivision
ordinance
and
it's
a
deviation
from
your
subdivision
code
requirements,
so
they're,
very
separate,
separate
things
and
the
variants
applies
in
in
statute-
has
very
specific
requirements.
It
may
only
be
granted
based
on
the
property
and
not
a
self-imposed
condition
on
the
property
being
size,
shape,
topography,
location
or
surroundings.
So
those
are
some
factors
that
the
court
will
require.
So
if
a
variance
is
granted
that
doesn't
satisfy
those,
the
courts
will
overturn.
Those
exceptions
are
different.
F
Those
requirements
are
set
forth
in
the
subdivision
code,
and
so
it's
the
board
of
adjustment
that
will
be
able
to
that
is
authorized
by
Statute
9-46206
to
Grant
variances,
but
in
granting
any
variances
they
may
not
make
any
changes
to
use
permitted.
So
you
can't
say
you
want
to
operate.
You
know,
I
want
a
variance
to
be
able
to
operate
a
commercial.
F
You
know
business
in
a
residential
Zone,
that's
not
appropriate
use
of
a
variance
it
would
be
like
in
the
case.
Pawn
First
is
a
relatively
recent
variance
case
that
the
Arizona
Supreme
Court
upheld,
and
in
that
case
it
was
a
variance
that
was
approved
from
a
500
yard
setback
due
in
part
to
several
eminent
domain
proceedings
that
had
impacted
the
size
of
the
property
in
a
commercial
zone.
F
So
Pawn
First
wanted
to
operate
the
pawn
shop,
but
they
needed
less
of
a
front
yard
setback
just
due
to
the
size
of
the
property
and
it
so
it
wasn't.
The
pawn
shop
use
was
permitted,
but
they
needed
in
order
to
be
able
to
operate
a
business
or
any
business
needed.
A
variance
from
that
and
the
court
found
that
that
was
an
acceptable
use.
But
courts
have
found
that
adding
a
third
story,
a
residential
Edition
having
a
larger
sign
and
house
color.
F
F
Each
exception
requires
a
separate
application
and
then
requests
for
exemptions
will
be
made
subject
to,
of
course,
a
public
hearing
process
through
the
commission
recommendations
forage
to
the
council
and
then
those
recommendations,
similar
considerations
to
variant
but
not
constrained.
Quite
so
much
by
the
case
law
are
based
on
extraordinary
conditions
of
topography,
land
ownership,
adjacent
villain
and
other
circumstances
not
provided
for
in
the
subdivision.
Ordinance
and
exceptions
are
considered
and
decided
before
a
determination
of
a
final
approval
of
a
preliminary
and
final
plot
and
then
will
be
noted
on
the
final
plot.
F
So
it's
very
clear
what
a
what
rules
apply
to
that
property
based
on
the
plot
and
then
just
wanted
to
go
over
kind
of
that
administrative
process.
How
do
you
get
to
there?
And
so,
when
someone
files
an
application,
for
you
know
a
zoning
or
for
a
preliminary
plot
that
application
is
received,
then
the
town
is
required
to
process
that
and
under
whatever
zoning
zoning
code,
the
subdivision,
ordinance
and
based
on
those
criteria
set
forth,
and
then
the
staff
is
limited
to
the
language
of
the
code.
F
They
can't
chain
make
deviations
from
the
code,
and
so
if
the
language
in
the
code
or
an
ordinance
is
too
precise,
then
you'll
have
very
discrete
objective
criteria.
Then
the
staff
can
either
approve
or
deny
with,
and
then
the
the
council,
when
you
make
a
decision,
would
have
little
discretion
in
those
cases.
F
But
if
they're
more
subjective
or
open-ended
type
of
requirements,
then
you
know
that
adds
some
discretion
in,
but
also
adds
some
challenge
that
you
know
due
process
challenge
that,
depending
on
how
those
that
discretion
is
exercised,
could
lead
to
dispute
and
has
led
to
dispute
in
many
cases.
So
that's
kind
of
how
that
I
guess
how
those
kind
of
discretionary
acts
can
can
play
out
in
in
your
code.
So
then,
the
language
of
the
code,
though,
is
it's
up
to
the
council.
G
E
As
you
try
to
work
through
the
20
some
odd
items
on
page
three,
she
walked
you
through
the
three
elements
of
the
decision
process:
the
commission,
the
council
and
staff.
We
need
to
you
need
to
realize
that
your
discretion
changes
as
you
ratchet
down
from
the
from
the
council.
You
are
the
elected
officials.
The
the
voters
voted,
you
in
you
have
almost
absolute
discretion
when
exercising
your
zoning
Powers
there's
a
case
out
of
Marana
that
is
quoted
Nationwide.
E
It
says,
as
long
as
you
don't
shock
the
conscience
you're
not
liable,
and
that's
why
the
voters
selected
you
now.
Sadly,
we
have
some
cities
that
do
shock
the
conscious,
thankfully
you're,
not
one
of
them,
and
so
the
first
is
you
have
absolute
discretion
at
the
highest
level.
That's
where
you
can
exercise
when
you
ratchet
down
from
that
level
down
to
the
commission
down
to
staff.
As
you
start,
applying
things
like
site
plan,
special
use
permits,
cups.
E
You
then
have
criteria
and
variances
through
the
board
of
adjustment,
where,
if
you
don't
meet
those
criteria
under
the
state
statute,
you
could
be
liable.
So
your
greatest
discretion
is
zoning.
Your
lowest
discretion
is
when
you
get
down
to
it
to
actions
that
are
recommendations
by
the
commission
to
the
council
like
site
plan,
like
plots
like
special
use
permits,
then
you
have
criteria.
You
have
to
satisfy
objective
criteria.
A
Thank
you
very
much
on
a
sad
note.
I
forgot
to
make
this
announcement.
It's
not
an
announcement.
I
really
want
to
make,
but
we
had
a
death
on
Black
Mountain
this
morning.
That
is,
by
my
count,
the
third
death
on
trails
in
in
Cave
Creek
in
the
last
12
months.
So
sad
news,
the
next
thing
on
the
agenda
tonight
is
are
the
Town
Council
comments
and
so
I'd
open
it
up
to
anyone
on
tail.
Let's
just
start
on
the
left
here
and
go
around
the
table.
H
A
J
J
It
was
emphasized
that
there
are
processes
and
within
our
responsibility,
it's
been
my
experience
that
when
we
follow
the
process
we
do
well.
If
we
deviate
from
the
process,
then
sometimes
we
need
to
come
back,
but
the
processes
of
town
government,
work
and
I
look
forward
to
working
with
all
of
you
through
those
processes.
K
I
appreciate
everybody
showing
up
in
the
audience
and
and
I'm
glad
that
we
have
the
opportunity
to
talk
to
the
Planning.
Commission
I
took
the
liberty
of
being
prepared,
so
if
you
could
take
one
and
pass
one
down
yeah
same
thing
on
this
side,
these
are
kind
of
my
thoughts
on
what
needs
to
happen
and
kinds
of
things
we
need
to
start.
Looking
at.
K
We
have
some
big
stuff,
that's
that's.
We
have
some
big
stuff
coming
and
we
need
to
prepare
for
it
and,
if
we're
not
prepared
for
it's
going
to
come
back,
invite
us,
particularly
with
the
the
state
land
trust
as
they
build
the
chip
plant,
no
wrong
one.
No,
that
one's
supposed
to
stay
with
me.
Sorry.
K
J
K
You
all
are
here
in
the
right
place
and
at
the
right
time
and
I
truly
help
you
notice
and
understand
the
scope
of
the
work
you're
charged
with
zoning
ordinance.
Chapter
14.,
14,
1,
B
and
I
got
it
in
quotes,
it
says
and
shall
advise
the
council
regarding
applications
for
amendments
to
the
general
plan,
specific
area
plans
and
this
ordinance
that's
a
big
job.
K
There
are
three
tools
that
are
identified
for
your
use.
The
general
plan
voted
in
place
by
the
citizens.
Thank
you.
It's
listed
first.
We
know
it's
not
a
law,
but
we
also
know
that
citizens
were
actively
involved
in
its
description
of
what
they
desire
for
this
place.
Where
we
live
ordinances
are
the
laws
that
keep
us
safe
and
when
adhered
to,
to
serve.
In
fairness
to
everyone,
any
new
ordinances
must
conform
to
the
general
plan.
K
K
J
A
A
L
M
Being
on
the
Planning,
Commission
has
been
a
learning
experience.
I've
learned
a
lot
the
first
year
and
we
have
yet
to
have
an
active
meeting
this
year,
but
look
forward
to
learning
more
and
understanding
the
variances
and
details
that
arrive
with
each
case
that
comes
before
the
commission.
I
think
there's
there's
room
for
both
old
and
new
and
Cave
Creek
that
we
have
a
past
with
a
lot
of
respect
and
a
lot
of
passion.
But
we
also
have
a
future
with
a
lot
of
opportunity.
I
N
K
Thank
you.
It's
good
to
be
here,
I've,
worn
many
hats
in
the
town
and
after
you
know,
reading
the
agenda
and
getting
councilman,
elkema's
and
Roads.
You
know
comments.
I
think
the
group
needs
to
look
at
the
availability
of
of
time
as
it
relates
to
applying
to
each
of
these
items
and
and
by
that
I
think
one
needs
to
prioritize
these
items
and
I
think
we
need
to
look
at
as
we
prioritize
these
items.
Look
at
the
ultimate
effect
it's
going
to
have
on
those
properties.
K
As
an
example,
there's
X
number
of
properties,
equaling
X
number
of
acres
in
our
town
core,
and
there
is
no
more
and
in
our
main
business
area,
I.E
Cave,
Creek,
Road
and
Carefree
Highway.
The
same
exists
for
commercial
there's.
Only
a
limited
number
of
properties,
residential
I
think
it's
it's
it's
much
wider.
K
It's
it's
a
broader
type
situation
there,
but
I
I
wouldn't
like
to
see
us
spending
staff
time
and
our
time
collectively
on
items
that
are
so
small
and
insignificant
that
they'll
have
little
to
no
effect
on
the
properties
that
may
be
affected
by
them.
I
think
we
need
to
look
at
those
properties
and
areas
that
what
we're
going
to
discuss
today
will
have
the
greatest
effect
and
the
broadest
broadest
brush.
A
P
Want
to
thank
you
and
the
council
for
bringing
us
all
together.
I
think
we
have.
You
know
14
people
who
are
invested
in
this
town.
You
know
we
love
this
town
and
we
want
to
make
sure
and
ensure
everything
we
can
do
to
make
sure
it's
a
a
beautiful
place
to
live
today
and
into
the
future.
You
know
our
priorities
obviously
have
to
be
things
to
make
sure
that
the
town
can
survive.
You
know
it's
fiscal
health.
Water
is
a
huge
issue.
We
have
to
protect
that
protection
from
fire.
A
The
top
thing
done
first
and
then
second,
and
have
it
laid
out
from
top
to
bottom,
so
that
we
see
early
progress
and
steady
progress.
Both
we
have
funds,
the
town,
one
of
the,
in
my
view,
one
of
The
Shining
successes
of
the
town
there
I
can
count
two
shining
successes.
One
is
spur
cross,
that's
just
honestly
amazing,
and
the
second
is
is
that
we
have
the
ability
financially
to
support
something.
A
A
town
of
five
thousand
can
support
the
kind
of
open
space
that
we
support
and
the
kind
of
amenities
that
we
have
in
the
natural
environment.
My
only
other
comment
is
on
discretion.
I
am
not
a
fan
of
discretion,
I
think
discretion
leads
to
one
deal
for
one
person
and
a
different
deal
for
somebody
else
in
its
best
application
and
it's
worse
it
leads
to
corruption,
because
now
someone
has
the
ability
to
they.
I
have
the
ability
to
do
something.
A
A
We
make
a
decision
that
that
the
good
thinking
goes
into
crafting
good
good
regulations,
good
code
and
that
that
does
its
job
at
helping
to
bring
the
community
together,
rather
than
dividing
us
when
something
comes
up
with
that
I
think
we'll
move
on
to
the
next
stage
and
I'll
I'll
describe
a
little
bit
the
process
here.
It's
it's
organized
in
an
attempt
to
to
get
to
the
solution,
which
is
the
deliverable.
A
If
you
recall
from
earlier
is
we
want
to
give
clear
direction
to
the
staff,
so
they
can
create
a
plan
of
the
top
priority
items
if
you'll,
if
you'll
notice,
on
the
back
of
the
room
there,
we
have
front
of
the
room,
we
have
three
different
easels
there's
and
those
are
the
three
buckets
that
we
hope
to
put
the
items
into.
One
is
the
critical
impact
and
that
would
be
defined
as
something
that
is
it
it
it's
upon
us
right
now.
It's
something
that
that
is
very,
very
needed.
A
It's
popular,
it's
cleaning
up,
something
that
has
been
a
long-term
problem
that
we
really
need
to
put
near
the
top
of
the
list.
The
second
one,
this
kind
of
the
second
wave
is
a
longer
term.
The
critical
impact
we
plan
to
hand
to
staff
after
tonight
and
say,
okay,
go
out
and
create
a
plan
with
the
plan
includes
resources,
timing,
personnel
and
things
like
that.
A
Time
is
probably
the
toughest
one,
but
we
because
we
have
the
we
have.
We
have
the
resources
to
do
these
things,
but
that's
the
one
that
will
go
in
there
first
and
come
back
with
the
prioritized
critical
impact
items
early
rather
than
late.
It's
still
going
to
be
a
couple
months,
probably
before
we
get
that
back.
It's
got
to
be
reviewed
and
then
Council
will
approve
that
we'll
agendize
that
and
approve
or
modify
that
particular
document.
A
Then
it
goes
to
staff
for
execution
with
reporting
so
that
if
we
start
to
fall
off
the
plan,
we
can
decide
to
relax
the
deadlines
or
we
can
put
more
resources
on
it
or
funds
try
to
break
through
any
barriers
that
happen
to
crop
up
the
second
one.
There
is
the
longer
term.
The
second
wave
is
are
items
that
hey
we'd
like
to
get
these
done,
but
they're
lower
priority,
and
we
want
to
they're,
not
the
ones
we're
going
to
focus
on
early,
because
the
timing
impact
finances
drought.
A
There
are
some
things
that
are
critically
important.
Others
can
wait
a
while
the
last
one.
There
is
further
investigation
and
those
are
the
kind
of
the
remaining
items
and
I
I
really
hope
to
have
no
more
than
10
items
on
the
critical
impact
side.
So
we
can
get
to
work
and
get
those
done
and
and
get
started
the
longer
we
the
more
items
on
there,
the
slower
it's
going
to
be,
and
so
there
there's
always
a
number
one
project
and
there's
a
project
at
the
end.
A
So
here
we
are
we'll
start
by
taking
the
and
I
encourage
you
like.
Dusty
you
hand,
you
have
a
list
of
items
on
here,
I
encourage
you
to
the
items
that
are
appropriate
for
Action.
You
know
some
of
these
are
really
not
action
times,
they're
more
investigating.
Well,
the
SDA
items
would
go
in
over
in
three
probably
here.
C
A
K
Speak
up,
I
have
a
comment,
and
it's
this
six
years
on
the
Planning
Commission
and
that
commission
has
has
worked
smoothly
and
as
the
gears
all
mesh,
and
most
of
it
makes
sense
until
it
comes
to
commercial
buffer
and
but
I
was
taught
about
commercial
buffer.
Was
that
that's
sort
of
a
utility
zoning
classification?
And
we
use
it
when
we
don't
know
what
what
else
to
say
and
the
truth
is
for
for
both
a
business
owner
who
comes
to
town,
ready
to
invest
and
a
residential
owner?
K
Who
is
has
proximity
to
a
commercial
Zone?
They
both
have
expectations
that
they're
going
to
be
treated
fairly,
but
when
you
pop
commercial
buffer
on
it,
nobody
gets
satisfaction
with
it.
There's
no
buffering
really,
and
it's
really
all
on
the
commercial
side.
That's
just
my
opinion,
but
that's
what
I
think
I've
observed.
A
P
I
had
a
comment
about
the
the
term
commercial
buffer.
We
discussed
this
in
the
past
and
I
think
it
has
a
significant
meaning
to
the
residences
when
we
use
the
term
intermediate
commercial.
That
to
me
says
it's
just
commercial.
You
know
that
it's,
it
could
be
anything
and
that's
suggested.
Is
there
a
little
commercial
too?
Let's
I
can
report,
we
don't
know
exactly
what
that
is,
but
by
saying
buffer
it
says
this
is
an
area
that's
adjacent
to
a
different
type
of
Zone,
a
residential,
Zone
and
I.
P
Think
it's
important
that
we
keep
that
concept.
We
don't
have
that
many
interfaces
in
this
town
and
for
me,
as
kind
of
a
new
Resident,
it's
more
important
to
me
to
have
this
distinction
and
I.
Think
it's
important
to
people
around
me
that
I've
talked
to
to
maintain
that
term
commercial
buffer
and
as
far
as
how
critical
it
is,
you
know,
I
I,
don't
think
it's
terribly
critical.
A
Okay,
okay,
well,
where's
it
at
right.
Now:
okay,
well,
we'll
we'll
come
to
that
a
bit
later,
because
I
that's
the
kind
of
interplay
we
want
to
try
to
see
where
these
things
land
and
we're
not
no
one's
gonna
get
everything
they
want.
I
have
items
on
this
list.
I've
been
trying
to
get
done
for
five
years,
so.
B
L
L
L
It
got
addressed
at
the
second
reading,
because
the
Planning
Commission
was
turned
down
by
the
council,
and
this
was
tacked
onto
it,
and
it
was
really
tacked
on
at
my
behest,
because
I
feel
that
the
neem
commercial
buffer
is
a
misnomer
and
it
causes
a
little
bit
of
angst
amongst
residents
because
they
don't
understand
it
because
they're
they're
taking
the
word
buffer
at
face
value
and
that's
the
issue
here
for
me-
I
understand
I'll,
look
at
the
commercial
buffer.
What
are
the
allowed
uses?
L
A
Okay,
thank
you
Steve,
so
we'll
leave
it
I'm,
not
sure
where
that
puts
on
the
priority,
but
I
will
leave
it
there
until
we
get
everything
all
the
stickies
on
the
board
and
then
we'll
start
shuffling
the
cards.
So
the
next
one
on
here
is
the
dr-43
is
represents
the
large
animals
on
smaller
properties.
A
A
D
M
Mayor
Morris,
yes,
yeah
just
to
comment
on
that
issue.
I
think
part
of
the
the
consideration
is
when
you
read
the
zoning
ordinance,
it
defines
private
Ranch
as
two
acres
or
more,
and
then
it
goes
on
to
describe
how
many
large
animals
and
small
animals
you
can
have
on
a
private
Ranch,
but
it
doesn't
break
it
down
further
to
the
dr-70
and
the
dr-43,
and
so
there's
I
think
some
confusion
about
people
trying
to
interpret
what
that
zoning
ordinance
actually
says.
K
A
A
Okay,
well
we'll
delegate
that
wrestling
with
those
questions
to
staff
in
the
interest
of
and
so
you'll
you'll
have
to
Luke
you'll
have
to
wrestle
these
differing
issues
down,
come
up
with
a
consensus
and
then,
if,
if
we
can't
get
agreement,
it
goes
It
goes
to
council.
It
goes
to
the
Planning
Commission.
It
goes
to
council,
we
vote
and
we're
done
with
it.
So
that's
the
decision-making
process
in
democracies,
zoning
enforcement.
I
I
Q
K
Council
and
commission
work
the
the
discussion
kind
of
centers
on
the
idea
that
okay,
we
we
get
a
site
plan.
We
we
work,
it
we've
been
already
to
recommend
it.
It
comes
to
the
council
and
the
council
approves
it
and
then
in
the
language-
and
this
is
the
part
that
was
critical
to
to
what
I
heard
in
the
language
it
says-
and
this
is
all
well
and
good
it.
Unless
something
comes
up
and
the
zoning
administrator
decides
to
change
it.
K
K
K
A
D
A
B
D
K
K
The
Mr
Mayor,
the
only
changes,
would
be
in
the
field
of
engineering
water,
sewer,
storm,
sewer,
the
curb
gutters
streets
whenever
you're
putting
in
that
type
of
infrastructure.
There's
always
changes
made
in
the
field
and
it's
what
they
call
a
red
line
plan
that
the
town
is
aware
of,
because
an
official
from
the
town
is
there
as
well
as
the
developer
Builder
and
it
comes
into
the
child,
but
I
I,
don't
believe
the
intent
is
to
have
things
like
that.
K
A
J
B
L
You
know
I
was
going
to
add.
You
know
this.
This
doesn't
sound
like
anything
related
to
zoning
enforcement.
You
know
that
would
be.
You
know
where
someone
has
a
property
and
they're
making
use
of
it.
That's
not
permitted!
You
know
by
the
zone
that
it's
in
and
you
know
when
we
make
a
decision
on.
You
know
a
zone
change
you
know,
and
it's
granted
that
that
person
then
can
can
make
use
of
their
land
within
that
zone,
and
then
they
go
through
their
permitting
process.
L
L
A
M
A
A
I
Actually,
actually,
we
can
do
conditional
zoning,
we
give
them
a
time,
a
time
period
And.
If
and
if
the
Project's
not
done
to
the
site
plan,
we
can
roll
the
zoning
back
to
whatever
it
was
previously.
They've
lost
that
right
by
not
working
doing
their
their
project
in
a
timely
fashion,
and
that's
that's
a
legal
legal
tool
that
we
can
use.
K
It's
all
the
issue
that
you're
talking
about
that's
what
we
were
talking
about
when
we
were
at
the
offsite
way
way
back
when
we.
What
we
were
talking
about
is
is
somebody
gets
something
rezoned
and
then
they
decide
and
they
come
in
and
say:
okay,
I
want
to
I
want
to
build
X,
and
then
they
come
back
and
immediately
sell
the
property
and
say:
okay,
we're
going
to
build
y
instead,
even
though
it's
been
rezoned,
even
though
it's
it's
been,
it's
been
doing
that
there's
some
concern
that
that's
happened
in
the
past.
K
I
L
K
A
I
I
A
A
We
have
that
power
today,
we've
exercised
that
power
in
the
past
I've
been
on
boats
where
we
have
restricted,
for
example,
commercial,
buffer
down
to
one
use
for
a
period
of
time
to
one
owner,
even
so
that
that's
I
think
that's
Council
has
a
discretion.
You
could
make
a
motion
and
do
that
on
any
case
that
comes
up
okay,
okay,
okay,
who
who,
who
was
next
on
Steve
Brickner?
A
Q
H
L
L
You
know
rezone
applications.
We
just
did
that
for
two
Parcels
in
area
18.
that
were
sent
to
council
where
the
Planning
Commission
placed
restrictions
on
them
and
I
want
to
make
it
clear.
You
know
anytime,
at
least
for
me.
You
know
when
an
applicant
comes
forward
with
a
rezoning
request:
I'm
not
really
concerned
about
whatever
song
and
dance
that
that
applicant
is
pitching
as
their
intended
use
for
that
property.
L
I'm
going
to
be
looking
at
all
the
available
uses
within
that
zone
that
could
be
allowed
if
the
property
is
rezoned
and
then
try
to
make
a
decision
as
to
what's
appropriate
and
that's
what
was
done
in
those
two
Parcels
in
Area
18
that
was
recently
sent
and
I
I.
Just
think
the
council
should
probably
do
the
same
thing.
L
L
A
K
N
A
zoning,
a
zone,
change
application,
grants,
Council
and
commission
the
greatest
flexibility
and
authority
to
impose
discretion
imposed
conditions,
and
if
a
site
plan
comes
forward
or
a
subsequent
special
use,
application
comes
forward.
That's
not
in
keeping
with
any
of
those
conditions,
then
they'd
be
in
violation.
The
conditions
of
approval
of
zoning
would
have
to
go
back
to
deviate
from
any
of
those
conditions,
and
the
conditions
of
approval
are
applied
to
every
case
that
we
have.
N
There
are
some
instances
where
they're
they're
not
necessary.
It's
it's
an
infill
project
where
all
the
site's
been
developed
already,
but
by
and
large
the
conditions
of
approval.
If
there's
any
deviation
from
those.
Yes,
the
zoning
ordinance
says
those
come
back
to
the
Planning
Commission
and
Council.
They
want
to
amend
the
conditions.
So,
okay,.
A
K
Yeah,
don't
need
to
string
off
what
Steve
you
said
earlier
on
the
number
four
you
use
the
term
zoning
compliance
and
I
just
want
to
have
everybody
revisit
our
native
plan
protection
ordinance.
It
goes
back
to
the
early
days
of
the
Town.
It
was
developed
primarily
by
former
councilman
and
former
commissioner
Peter
Curry
and
I
just
want
to
make
sure
it's
still
in
the
books
we're
still
enforcing
it.
There's
a
lot
of
pin
to
pin
lighting
of
raw
land,
that's
residential,
so
I'm
less
concerned,
sometimes
about
zoning
enforcement
and
where
about
zoning
compliance.
L
K
K
A
C
B
A
A
A
K
Since
I
type,
this
up
I
get
to
keep
talking
here
and
this
one
and
this
to
me
as
a
discussion
about
and
it
was
about
lighting
actually
and
that
we
you
know
I,
can
go
to
the
zoning
manual
and
the
ordinances
and
I
can
see.
We
have
a
lighting
ordinance,
it's
great,
but
the
person
that
was
talking
to
me
about
this
was
fussed
up
because
there
was,
it
seemed
insufficient
Clarity
on
lighting
color
lighting
direction.
K
K
Well,
if
there's
anything
that
has
to
do
with
lighting
at
all
in
this
town,
I
want
it
all
in
one
place,
I
think
it
makes
sense,
and
if
there's
lighting,
if
there
are
lighting
issues
that
are
in
other
parts
and
are
affected,
there
needs
to
at
least
be
a
reference
across.
So
people
can
find
the
information.
A
G
N
Outdoor
lighting,
as
it
pertains
to
private
properties,
are
relegated
to
Chapters
two
and
three
chapter:
two
is
our
residential
Zone
chapter
three
is
our
commercial
Zone?
You
can
find
it
under
development
regulations,
Section
I
in
both,
and
they
are
essentially
identical.
Commercial
lighting
deviates
a
little
bit
than
residential
as
it
should,
and
the
only
other
reference
to
lighting
is
in
chapter.
Nine
are
sign
ordinance
related
to
the
illumination
of
signage,
so
it
is
in
those
places
in
those
places
on
Luke.
A
K
That
we
are
that
we
have
there's
a
whole
discussion
in
there
about
recognizing,
neighborhoods
and
and
understanding
the
characteristics
of
those
neighborhoods
and
learning
from
those
neighborhoods,
and
so
this
may
not
really
be
a
zoning
question.
But
it
is
a
burning
question
that
people
are
interested
in
knowing
where
we
live
and
knowing
that
that
this
little
town
is
unique
in
a
lot
of
ways
and
places.
J
L
Yeah
sure
I
guess
my
my
question
is
because
I'm
kind
of
confused
on
it
too
I,
don't
know
whether
it's
you
know
kind
of
like
a
Wishful
thought
or
gives
you
know
and
I
don't
know
whether
there
is
any
intent
to
try
and
put
some
preservation.
I
didn't
know
what
neighborhoods
Paul
you're
referring
to
you.
Maybe
that
would
be
helpful.
K
K
Think
maybe
and
I
put
that
word
in
parens
here,
because
I
think
it's
our
it's
up
to
us
and
our
definition
and
Steve
over
there
sitting
next
to
the
director
did
a
really
great
job
of
looking
at
our
town
and
all
of
the
subdivisions
and
the
neighborhoods,
and
he
also
was
able
to
attach
dates
of
when
they
were
formed
up,
and
there
are
some
neighborhoods
in
this
town
that
I
I
think
we
should
notice
and
care
for.
So
that's
my
pitch
on
it.
K
The
contentious
area
area
18,
we
have
saguaro
West
right
right
next
to
it
that's
a
historic
area.
It's
been
that
way
since
the
the
guys
came
back
from
Vietnam
they've
lived
in
that
lifestyle
since
then,
so
that's
a
historic
neighborhood
that
we
might
want
to
do
some
preservation
things
with,
and
that
would
be
an
example
Steve.
Okay,.
L
L
K
K
A
K
On
Mr,
Mayor
I
think
we
need
to
be
careful
on
this
one
in
my
opinion
and
that
you're
you're
now
to
me,
starting
to
infringe
on
somebody's
property
rights.
This
is
not
a
150
year
old
subdivision,
like
in
the
old
neighborhoods
in
Chicago.
That
was
pointed
out.
The
town
was
incorporated
37
years
ago
and
it's
a
Western
Rural
equestrian
lifestyle
and
in
that
subdivision,
and
wanted
to
build
a
modern
home
right
now
they
could
do
it.
We
don't
have
any
design
guidelines
in
town,
so
I
think
we're
approaching.
K
E
Mr
former
vice
mayor
you've
raised
two
issues.
One
everything
you're
talking
about
tonight,
if
it
applies
to
existing
use,
creates
a
potential
207
issue.
So
you
need
to
realize
it's
there,
but
there's
mechanisms
to
avoid
that
if
you
as
the
elected
officials,
decide
to
adopt
it,
you
let
them
opt
out,
but
secondly,
you're
coming
very
close
to
design
review
and
I've
only
I've
been
with
you
guys
for
a
number
of
years
and
I
don't
know
if
your
community
has
an
appetite
for
design
review
for
residential
districts.
H
May
I
come
in
I
really,
don't
think.
That's
where
we're
going
with
any
of
this
I
think
what
Paul
is
trying
to
do
is
evolve.
His
local
landmarks
program
into
our
residential,
neighborhoods
and
I
think
that's
a
very
good
idea
and
I
I
just
think
it's
an
evolution
of
local
landmarks
and
and
we
could
rename
it
local
neighborhoods
or
something
to
that
effect.
I,
don't
think
we're
trying
to
change
the
design
of
any
of
our
neighborhoods
or
impose
restrictions.
I
think
we're
trying
to
recognize
the
various
different
areas
of
our
wonderful
little
town.
K
A
Well,
I
I
think
the
the
state
We're
not
gonna
have
time
to
solve
the
problem
tonight.
So
let's
move
that
into
further
investigation
and
the
people
that
are
interested
in
championing
championing
that
can
get
together
and
put
together
a
proposal
on
what
that
means.
So
we
can
decide
whether
it's
something
we
want
to
do.
K
Waiting
development,
let
me
I
guess,
make
a
supportive
plug
for
Dark
Skies,
which
Fountain
Hill
has
Camp
Verde
and
Sedona,
and
others
it's
not
rocket
science
Cottonwood
does
now
too.
We
have
a
difference
in
elimination
behind
Black,
Mountain
and
I.
Don't
have
a
specific
suggestion,
except
that
we
ought
to
talk
about
it
in
a
public
meeting
sometime
in
the
near
future.
I
would
hope
well.
K
A
I
We
went
through
the
whole
we
compared
with
staff's
help,
chapter
and
verse
of
Dark
Skies
ordinances
and
our
lighting
ornaments.
Our
lighting
ordinance
is
more
restrictive
and
more
and
and
have
and
offers
more
preparation
or
a
preservation
of
Dark
Skies
than
the
Dark
Skies
ordinance
does.
The
dark
side,
ordinance
and
very
generally
is,
is,
is
flying
in
a
well
I'll.
I'll,
never
heard
the
staff
with
the
details,
but
the
conclusion
we
came
to
was
dark.
A
The
the
current
status
on
that
is
that
there's
been
a
change
of
heart,
it
seems
from
the
Dark
Skies
people
where
the
designation
is
has
changed
and
we
have
our
ordinances
and
that's
being
investigated.
So
this
really
is
nothing
to
do
until
that
kind
of
comes
to
a
head.
We
can't
we
don't
can't
really
have
a
meeting,
there's
nothing
to
talk
about.
B
K
K
H
A
K
Signs
that
have
been
allowed
in
the
last
year,
two
years,
which
did
not
comply
with
the
signing
ordinance
unless
they
were
grandfathered
their
interior
lit
I,
mean
it's
great
to
go
over
to
the
new
places
on
Carefree
Highway
and
see
the
overhead
lights
shining
down,
because
that
shows
the
town
code
works
yeah.
And
then
we
have
a
couple
of
others.
So
again,
I'm
not
fully
briefed
on
this,
but.
D
K
Back
to
I
believe
your
your
comment
earlier
about
getting
the
zoning
ordinance
getting
rid
of
the
I
call
them
loopholes,
but
they're
places
where
discretion
can
be
used
or
places
where
interpretation
can
be
used
differently.
Let's
just
figure
out
what
the
what
we
want
and
and
make
it
as
specific
as
possible
so
that
there's
not
wiggle
room
that'll
get
us
in
trouble
later
on.
Well,.
A
I
I
Me
just
put
this
on
the
record
and
it's
none
of
my
business.
Really
it's
it's
a
council
issue.
Apparently,
but
you
know,
if
you're
going
to
do
proactive
enforcement,
then
you
better
fund
it,
because
what
you're
looking
at
is
is
talk
with
issues
that
are
going
to
come
right
back
to
you
and
and
it's
not
going
to
be
happy
to
people
no.
C
I
Also,
if
you
don't
get
them
all,
if
you
just
have
like
oh
I'd,
say
half
a
dozen
folks
and
they're
all
running
around
and
they
cite
Billy,
Johnny
and
Bo.
And
then
then
Billy
Johnny
and
Bo
look
at
their
neighbors
or
look
around
town
and
start
doing
surveys.
And
they
see
that
same
that
same
problem
elsewhere
and
all
of
a
sudden
you're
getting
people
screaming
in
class
actions
about
selective
enforcement
and
equal
protection
issues.
And
so
just
what
you
asked
for
well,.
K
D
A
L
You
know
we
can't
just
go
on
a
goose
chase.
Looking
for
what
what
loopholes
there
might
perceive
to
be
so
I,
something
to
maybe
put
on
the
council's
agenda
to
consider
if
they
want
to
look
at
making
any
changes
to
the
zoning
ordinance
is
to
have
to
hire
a
professional
to
to
to
look
at
our
zoning
ordinance
and
any
perceived
problems
with
it.
A
A
K
So
if
we're
going
to
take
the
time
to
examine
a
proposal
or
a
business
located
in
our
town
and
if
they're
asking
for
a
special
use
permit
and
we
decide
to
Grant
it
that's
great,
but
if
they
decide
that
that
business
isn't
viable
or
wants
to
move
away
or
whatever
that
use
permit,
goes
with
them
and
doesn't
stay
with
the
property.
We
have
properties
in
this
town
right
now,
zoned
under
a
special
use,
permit
I
think
for
manufacturing
along
Cave
Creek
Road,
and
that
was
that
happened
just.
D
G
A
N
The
beautiful
thing
about
a
special
use
is
the
discretion
that
the
commission
and
counselor
given
to
give
conditions
that
can
be
a
condition
of
approval.
Currently
right
now,
once
a
a
special
use
has
ceased,
I
believe
they
have
I,
don't
know
if
it's
one
year
or
two
years
for
for
that
use
to
remain
entitled
for
that
property.
Typically,
the
special
use
runs
with
the
property,
but
Council
can
condition
it
otherwise,
I.
A
N
If
you
know
right
here,
for
example,
the
auto
repair
shop
they've
got
several
hundreds
of
thousands
of
dollars,
probably
in
equipment
and
lifts,
and
everything
that
business
was
pre-existing
prior
to
the
town.
Now
it
would
require
a
special
use
if
they
decided
to
close
up
shop
and
leave,
then
you've
got
essentially
a
a
business,
a
long-standing
use
and
a
long-standing
building
that
would
no
longer
be
compliant
have
to
come
back
through
for
approval
from
the
council
again.
So.
A
K
A
N
K
B
B
J
K
A
P
D
F
L
I
was
just
going
to
say,
you
know
it
can
be
problematic
to
try
and
make
it
go
with
a
business
a
lot
of
times.
Businesses
sell
on
asset
sales
rather
than
the
actual
entity
itself,
for
a
variety
of
reasons,
including
liabilities
and
so
on
so
I'm
not
sure
that
that
would
be
a
wise
move
to
ever
go
into
business.
Okay,.
A
D
K
D
A
D
J
A
O
0.3
number
nine
for
other
I
I
I'd
like
to
to
briefly
talk
about
councilman
Rhodes
topic
of
design
review
and,
as
a
commissioner
I
would
like
guidance
from
the
council
and
the
public
as
to
whether
that's
really
desirable
for
the
town
and,
if
so,
what
kind
of
parameters
that
that
should
be
consisting
of
I?
Don't
see
that
anywhere
on
any.
K
H
K
So
what
do
we?
What
do
we
want?
We've
got
and
I
think
it's
more
oriented
towards
the
new
Cave
Creek.
You
know
when
that
state
land
trust
land
gets
sold
and
we
have
120
Acres,
that's
going
to
be
commercial
and
120.
That's
going
to
be
commercial
buffer.
What
do
we
want
that
to
look
like?
Do
we
want
it
to
be
eclectic
like
the
town
core?
Do
we
want
more
of
a
planned
look
to
it?
How
do
we
want
to
do
that?
K
How
do
we
want
to
handle
that
and
that's
I
think
what
we
were
talking
about
and
that's
something
that
I
think
is
long-term?
That's
a
discussion
we
ought
to
have
with
townspeople.
What
do
you
want?
Yes,
I
agree:
I'm,
not
looking
at
us
to
counsel
to
solve
that
I'm
looking
for
that,
you
know
to
have
the
Planning
Commission
to
have
a
hearing
on
it
at
some
point.
Let
people
come
in
and
speak.
What
do
you
think
it
should
look
like?
L
M
F
Any
any
conversation
about
any
kind
of
design
review
as
to
existing
uses
will
have
that
will
inevitably
that
will
have
to
be
discussed
and
addressed.
How
that
affects
current
current
uses,
current
property
rights
and
the
potential
liabilities
and
risks
under
prop
207
and
other
types
of
constitutional
violations.
Yeah.
K
F
K
L
N
2010
through
2012,
when
we
were
going
through
our
zoning
ordinance
reformatting
it
revising
it,
consolidating
it
doing
all
the
things
that
are
some
of
the
basis
of
conversation.
Tonight
we
went
into
section
3.5
of
the
zoning
ordinance,
which
contains
all
the
uses
categorized
by
which
zone
they're
allowed
and
the
process
by
which
they
can
be
entitled
and
developed.
N
We
were
eliminating
and
changing
things
that
were
in
The,
General,
commercial
and
commercial
buffer
zones
and
the
state
land
Department
was
became
aware
of
it
and
sent
us
a
a
very
nice
letter,
kindly
reminding
us
of
the
agreements
that
we
had
in
place
at
the
time.
So
a
lot
of
those
uses
and
categories
weren't
changed
as
a
result
of
that.
At
that
time,
I.
K
P
K
You've
got
what's
called
Rebel
Ranch
you've
got
the
Buffalo
Chip
that
was
rebuilt.
You've
got
the
stagecoach,
Village
I
could
go
on
and
on
all
built
without
design
guidelines
and
I.
Think
the
people
putting
their
money
online
to
create
a
business.
They
don't
need
more
government
intervention,
they
need
less
and
I
think,
and
it's
and
they've
all
done
nicely.
You
know
the
designs
have
come
out
nicely
and
to
do
it
in
residential
you're,
creating
one
huge
HOA
which,
in
my
opinion,
is
not
good,
so
I
think
you
know
where
I
stand
absolutely.
J
You
know
I
think
that
we
need
to
recognize
the
extent
to
which
staff
has
worked
with
developers
who
have
come
in
sometimes
with
success,
sometimes
with
less
success
than
we
would
like,
but
I
think
that's
been
a
very
important
tool.
It's
one
that
generally
doesn't
get
us
into
trouble.
I
think
that
that's
one
Ron
that
you
probably
would
agree
with
is
is
a
reasonable
way
to
go
about
it.
I
Hall
understand
that
what
they
really
want
out
of
government
is
to
have
the
water
services
and
sewer
and
a
fire
department
and
have
things
run
smoothly,
and
they
assume
that
we're
going
to
do
what's
best
for
the
town
as
a
whole
and
not
have
a
committee
have
a
whole
section
of
commercial
property.
Looking
all
the
same,
there's
a
there
was
an
old
TV
car
TV
series
called
weeds
and
it
was
they're
all
made
out
of
tiki
tacky
and
they
all
just
look
the
same
and
that's
Southern,
California
and
I.
A
I
No
and
you
know
that
that
design
reviews
putting
constraints
on
private
property
and
I
don't
think
that's
had
anything
to
do
with
health
safety
welfare,
which
is
our
business,
that
we're
in
it
and
and
those
constraints
could
lead
to
diminution
of
value
which
would
inform
and
then
pop
prop
of
prop
207
in
a
big
way.
And
maybe
you
were
on
count,
did
you
guys
look
at
the
reflectivity
of
paints
for
houses
at
one
time
and
they
were
gonna?
I
Well,
one
count,
okay
and
and
found
out
that
six
of
their
houses,
six
of
their
of
their
homes,
wouldn't
actually
meet
the
criteria.
So
if,
if
you
outline
the
design
guidelines-
and
something
comes
in
that
you
don't
like-
there's
a
real
human
error
factor
to
to
make
a
bad
decision-
and
you
end
up
in
court
and
you're
just
going
to
be
writing
Jackson.
We
got
too
many
things
to
do
with
our
money
other
than
giving
paying
people
to
to
not
do
stuff.
A
O
A
A
The
the
sewer
is
we're
still
spending
subsidizing
it
to
the
two
and
a
half
million
dollars
a
year
in
a
combination
of
sales
tax
and
direct
contributions
from
the
general
fund.
We
have
better
uses
for
that
money
and
that
ought
to
be
a
major
long-term
strategic
commitment
of
the
town
is
to
get
out
of
that
negative
situation.
A
My
proposal
to
start
doing
that
is
number
one
is
to
not
allow
any
subdivisions
to
to
put
in
septic
tanks.
They
either
have
to
put
in
a
package
unit
and
return
the
water
to
us
or
they
have
to,
but
the
the
waste
down
to
our
plant
for
subdivisions,
I
I
think
that's
reasonable.
That'll
also
keep
I
mean
we
got
this
subdivision.
A
If
and
I'd
also
I
think
it's
critical
I
want
to
put
a
plug
in
that,
because
I'd
hate
to
have
a
subdivision
come
in
tomorrow
and
be
able
to
put
a
bunch
of
septic
tanks
in
take
the
water
from
our
water
system.
If
they
are
well,
they
have
to
bring
water,
but
we
like,
we
need
that
water
back.
We
need
that
water
to
put
in
the
ground
to
protect
the
town,
we're
going
to
be
looking
at
recharging,
more
water
here
in
the
near
future,
and
we
want
to
make
sure
for
Drought
purposes.
I
You
don't
miss
me
right
and
anything
that
brings
them
on
the
water
back
to
the
channel.
That
was
General
Counsel
for
Fountain
Hills,
Water
District,
and
one
of
my
friends
from
Gallagher
and
Kennedy
was
the
Environmental
Lawyer
that
did
the
whole
replanting
of
their
recharge
system,
got
it
approved
and
everything,
and
that
really
that
that
really
turned
around
Fountain
Hills,
not
only
with
with
their
problem.
I
Q
A
L
I
I
I
I
agree
with
you
I'm,
not
sure
that
the
subdivision
ordinance
doesn't
already
require
it,
but
if
it
doesn't
I
I'm
in
agreement
but
since
you're
bringing
up
sewer,
there's
one
item
that
I
thought
I
would
raise
where
I
believe
we
currently
have
for
residential.
If
a
residential
property
is
within
300
feet
of
sewer
that
that
property
is
required
to
connect-
and
you
know,
I've
noticed
that
we
may
have
some
potential
issues
with
that.
L
Considering
that
we're
a
rural
community-
and
we
have
some
very
large
Parcels,
you
know
you
know
butting
up
to
the
town
core.
We
have
dr89
D,
you
know
Dr
190
and
very
undulating
terrain
on
Schoolhouse
Road
and
spur
Cross
Road,
and
you
know
you
can
have
this
very
expensive
and
very
very
problematic
issue
for
some
Dr
Property
Owners,
where
they
could
get
caught
up
being
within
300
feet
and
have
a
cost
of
six
figures
if
they
want
to
build
or
if
their
septic
tank
goes
and
then
pump
stations
because
of
the
undulating
terrain.
L
A
A
D
A
K
K
J
A
N
N
That
would
require
a
change,
store,
subdivision,
ordinance
and
and
probably
likely
the
sound
code
as
well,
but
items
two
and
three
are
already
covered
in
our
zoning
ordinance
or
in
the
subdivision.
Ordinance
excuse
me:
private
streets
are
not
allowed
and
gates
are
not
allowed,
but
the
subdivision
ordinance
allows
for
an
exception,
So,
based
on
on
different
criteria
and
circumstances.
N
A
A
P
Yes,
mayor
I'm
against
private
streets
because
of
the
image
that's
conveyed
people
who
live
on
private
streets
patrol
those
streets:
they
don't
like
people
walking
through
those
streets.
In
fact
it's
exclusive
and
that's
not
what
this
town
is
about.
You
know
we're
inclusive
now,
if,
if
we
want
to
say
new
developments
put
in
a
30-year
quality
road
and
it
will
maintain
it
when
it
starts
going
bad
I'm.
Okay,
with
that,
you
know
let
the
developer
put
it
in
initially
and
then
once
it's
maintain,
it.
C
J
K
I
Idea
or
not
what
we
had
years
ago,
I
mean
I
can
remember,
reading
there
are
no
private
roads
and,
and
the
problem
was
the
founding
fathers
that
did
that.
That
was
one
of
the
sins
of
the
fathers,
because
there
was
no
funding
mechanism
to
maintain
them
and
that's
the
issue
that
you're
looking
at
it
from
me
as
well
I'm
with
you
100
on
that.
K
K
K
D
K
A
N
No,
that's
going
to
be
more
in
the
vein
of
your
number
one.
With
the
with
the
sewer,
hookups
I
know,
fire
hydrants
are
currently
I,
believe
they're
mandated
through
the
the
international
fire
code
that
we
have
adopted,
so
fire
hydrants
have
to
be
on
okay
on
certain
distance.
We
can
look
into
if
we
want
to
adopt
something
more
strict
than
what
the
the
IFC
would
require
in
our
town
code.
That's
something
we
can
look
at.
A
K
Q
C
I
A
A
N
A
N
N
D
N
Yeah
there's
so
there's
militaries
in
the
south
is
kind
of
that
main
alignment,
but
then
we've
looked
at
I
believe
it's
it's
Grapevine,
but
there's
really.
No
it's
much
more
cumbersome
there
I'm!
Sorry,
it's
much
more
difficult
on
the
north
side
of
Cave
Creek
Road
because
of
the
washes
that
really
bisect
the
town
in
those
points.
N
A
J
K
Be
orchestrated
by
the
spam
and
the
third
thing
I
just
wanted
to
float
this
I,
don't
have
anything
to
really
demonstrate
why
it's
a
good
idea
I
just
want
to
get
it
out
there
as
an
icebreaker
micro
preservation.
If
you
come
into
Cave
Creek
on
the
left-hand
side,
there's
that
Episcopalian
Church
and
the
land
around
is
actually
in
Carefree
and
a
few
years
ago.
K
Most
of
you
will
remember
it's
not
me
already
if
I
need
to
be
stopped,
but
anyway,
a
few
years
ago,
Carefree
had
a
project
to
develop
that
land
into
a
series
of
Fairly
tiny
lot,
Townhomes
right
on
the
road
with
series
of
walls
around
them.
It
is
a
view
corridor
and
it's
not
in
this
town,
and
we
don't
have
the
money
and
it's
not
for
sale.
I,
know
all
those
things,
but
just
the
concept
of
maybe
doing
micro
preservation
when
private
property
comes
up
on
the
market.
K
If
we
have
a
preservation
fund
which
David
Phillips
has
spoken
about
in
the
past-
and
we
used
to
have
it
years
ago,
with
Rick
Ross
Ranch,
so
I
wanted
to
plug
two
things
with
the
commission.
That
one
is,
is
micro
preservation,
something
that
would
have
any
feasibility
in
the
town
and
really
no
size
too
small,
for
example
at
Rancho
Manana,
it's
already
preserved,
but
always
the
Royals
on
top
of
the
hill.
K
As
you
come
around
the
curve,
I
think
and
I
would
defer
to
loot,
but
I
think
all
of
that
is
already
allocated
for
non-disturbing
on
that
property.
But
those
are
the
types
of
things
where
we
don't
necessarily
have
to
acquire,
but
if
there
are
some
things
that
might
be
able
to
be
just
folded
into
the
routine
process
or
if
something
becomes
available,
a
house
is
torn
down
and
the
family
wants
to
liquidate
the
property
and
it's
up
on
a
ridge
or
somewhere
significant
I.
K
Don't
know
you
know:
I,
don't
have
a
specific
example
and
I'm
not
even
sure
if
any
of
this
works,
but
I
just
want
to
float
the
concept
and
I
do
want
to
plug
later
on
with
the
council.
If
we
can
maybe
somehow
re-feed
the
kitty
on
the
preservation
fund,
with
whatever
sorts
people
think
is
appropriate,
but
I
just
wanted
to
float
that
with
you
guys
to
see.
If
there's
any
visibility,
I
just
have
one
question
just
sort
of
what
the
APA
is,
that
all
the
American
Planning
Association.
D
K
Ago,
the
training
was
provided
to
all
the
Commissioners
during
the
course
of
their
service
and
it's
kind
of
a
bag
of
all.
But
then
I
thought
if
we
actually
resubscribe
to
our
participants,
maybe
we
could
get
them
to
come
out
to
a
workshop
before
this
annual
meeting
have
in
public
and
there's
got
to
be
some
tricks
that
they
know
about
that
state
of
the
art,
with
the
latest
legal
interpretations
about
what
small
communities,
even
though
constrained,
might
be
able
to
get
away
with
at
least
temporarily,
but
other
communities
are
getting
aware.
K
C
K
K
K
Playground
for
kids
no
I
understand,
but
but
I'm
talking
about
in
some
of
the
neighborhoods
or
near
some
of
the
neighborhoods.
But
it
would
be
nice
to
have
a
little
playgrounds
like
there's
a
lot
of
kids
that
I
see
floating
around
I'd,
rather
not
them
floating
around
on
the
street
I'd.
Rather
than
find
a
playground
to
play
with.
A
R
Just
going
to
read
from
my
notes,
so
I
don't
butcher
anything
mayor.
So
to
best
my
knowledge,
the
Planning
Commission
held
a
workshop
last
month
distributed
work,
working
copy
of
town
court
plan
where
goals
and
actions
have
been
taken
with
corresponding
ordinances
resolutions
and
or
any
other
document
staff
asked
planning.
Commissioner
review
and
comment
process
will
come
together
after
plan
commission
or
together
after
Planning
Commission
will
begin
in
Earnest
in
the
fall
with
hearings
and
workshops.
R
K
J
K
I
have
a
question:
I
I
would
like
to
see
the
parking
plan.
You
know
we
have
all
these
buildings
downtown
that
have
restaurants
and
bars
and
everything
else
they've
all
added
outdoor
seating
which
didn't
have
parking
Associated.
It
would
be
nice
to
identify
in
the
all
for
all
the
commercial
properties,
what's
their
official
occupancy,
what
additional
occupancy
do
they
have
and
what
are
the
parking
spaces
associated
with
it,
so
that
we
at
least
we
can
try
to
start
figuring
out?
What
are
we
going
to
have
to
do
to
wrestle
parking
and
I
know?
K
L
A
The
the
Buffalo
Chip
is
bought
a
pretty
good
section
of
property,
but
that's
that's
not
I
think
what
is
is
right
now,
I,
don't
know
of
any
restrictions
and
people
so
advisor
a
built,
a
restaurant
they
put
in
parking
for
20
tables
and
they
put
40
tables
outside
now.
They've
got
parking
for
20.
that
isn't
that
something
ought
to
be
on
this
board
here
somewhere
before
we
that's.
L
P
Dusty
we
got
into
this
at
the
last
Planning
Commission
meeting
and
Luke
explained
to
us
that
parking
is
required
based
on
the
floor
footage
of
the
building.
However,
if
there's
outdoor
eating,
they
will
add
that
square
footage
to
the
calculation
and
expand
the
parking
for
that
additional
outside
space.
That's.
K
What
it
does
now,
what
we're
still
living
with
are
the
sins
of
the
past
and
that's
what
that's
the
problem
that
we're
going
to
have
going
on,
because,
as
everybody
knows,
we
grandfather
everything
in
here.
So
we
have
a
grandfathered
issue
of
parking.
How
do
we
fix
that
issue
at
least
identify
the
scope
of
the
issue
so
that
maybe
the
council,
Planning
Commission
and
the
staff
can
work
together
to
solve
it,
because
we
do
have
a
parking
issue.
A
K
K
There
is
a
process
here
in
town
that
that
developers
can
use
to
purchase
a
piece
of
property
somewhere
else,
and
that
will
answer
the
question
about
getting
the
right
ratio
of
building
envelope
to
the
property
being
built
upon
and,
and
that
has
it's
been
used
and
it
kind
of
works.
But
it
seems
like
the
list
of
properties
that
are
available
for
transfer
density,
which
is
what
this
is
called.
K
It
isn't
prioritized
I
mean
we
don't
know
which
places
we
want
to
have
the
developer
purchase
at
a
different
rate
than
just
finding
the
cheapest
one,
and
so
it's
a
kind
of
a
kind
of
a
loophole
for
a
a
project
where
you
can
actually
buy
your
way
out
of
the
ordinance
criteria
by
buying
a
piece
of
property.
That's
a
rock
on
top
of
a
hill
I'd
like
to
see
that
reviewed.
A
I
I
I
Why
that's
in
place
and
the
places
it's
been
utilized
or,
of
course,
a
long,
a
long
Carefree
Highway,
which
is,
is
the
Golden
Goose
that
actually
pays
for
the
the
fire
protection
and
the
and
the
stuff
that
we're
that
we're
able
to
do
now
for
the
community
that
we
weren't
able
to
do
before
puts
us
in
a
much
more
secure
financial
position.
I
mean
I
was
here
when,
in
you
know
a
when
the
Well.
When
the
crap
hit
the
fan
and
it
was
it
was
pretty,
it
was
pretty
bad.
I
A
L
Yeah
I
I
think
our
code.
Our
code
has
I
think
we
have
an
exhibit
attached
to
our
code
related
to
the
transfer
density,
where
we've
identified
certain
areas
and
I
think
it
worked
to
our
benefit.
I
seem
to
recall
some
of
the
land
that
got
preserved
above
hidden
Canyon
was
utilized
in
transfer
density,
to
protect
that
that
viewscape
and
I
think
with
the
state,
trust,
land,
I,
believe
there's
land
already
designated
for
open
space
and
so
on,
but
I
think
we
could
take
a
look
at
that.
K
It's
good
yeah.
This
is
a
side.
I
I
drove
up
to
the
state
land
trust
land
about
three
weeks
ago
and
I
actually
walked
through
the
gate
and
walked
up
and
down,
and
you
know,
saw
the
probably
about
4
000
Acres,
that's
one
big
flat
area
and
if
you
go
right
to
the
gate
where
the
state
land
trust
is,
and
you
look
right
down
the
valley,
you
can
see
Highway
17,
Carefree
Highway
and
that
massive
chip
plant
that's
an
eight
mile
straight
shot.
K
A
K
R
So
that's
my
knowledge,
that's
reviewed
by
the
building
department
and,
if
that's
going
to
be
acceptable,
we
use
underground
or
above
ground.
What
we
review
is,
if
there's
any
underground
utilities,
if
it's
complying
with
the
ordinance
and
such
but
there's
no
exemption
from
to
best
of
my
knowledge
that
in
so
yeah.
K
K
B
K
Q
B
Q
G
Good
evening
Anna
marsolo,
Cave,
Creek
resident
so
glad
I
came
Tonight,
I
almost
didn't,
because
I
didn't
feel
well,
but
I'm
really
glad
I
came
on
Code
Enforcement.
What
we
have
now
stinks,
it's
so
Draconian.
It
pits
neighbor
against
neighbor
its
neighborhood
driven
complaint.
You
have
an
opportunity
here,
hire
a
code
enforcement
officer.
If
Adam
Stein
can't
do
it.
You
really
you're
at
a
point
where
you
just
can't
avoid
it.
Now.
Steve
Lamar
said
that
you
have,
if
you
had
a
code
enforcement
officer
who
would
make
sure
that
it
was
fairly
done.
G
Well,
what
do
you
have
now?
If
a
neighbor
hates
you
he's
going
to
report
you
but
he's
not
going
to
report
the
guy
across
the
street,
so
I
think
that's
really
important.
On
design
review,
we
did
have
a
design
Review
Committee.
There
were
18
of
us
for
two
years
and
we
had
no
legal
teeth,
but
Ian
Cardwell
was
our
chairperson
and
we
met
and
out
of
our
efforts.
G
G
It
was
just
working
with
us,
the
last
last
tiendas
Shopping
Center,
that
was
efforts
of
our
committee
working
with
Ron
Lawrence,
what
a
fantastic
job
and
The
Grotto
who
doesn't
love,
The
Grotto
that
was
Andrew
Czar
working
with
our
committee,
not
forcing
them,
but,
like
Ernie,
said
it's
people
coming
here
who
wants
to
join
in
and
try
to
keep
some
identity
so
anyway,
on
design
review,
you
can
look
up
the
records.
We
did
have
a
committee
with
no
teeth,
but
it
worked
really
well
and
something.
G
C
G
G
It
stops
at
300
feet,
but
if
you,
if
you
extended
your
line
to
a
thousand
or
1200,
think
of
all
those
people
on
sewer
who
could
hook
into
it-
and
it
would
certainly
eliminate
a
lot
of
the
odor
that
we
do
have
on
often
occasions
I'll
give
you
something
to
cause
you
not
to
sleep
tonight
when
the
state
trust
land.
If
and
when
it
is
the
120
Acres
of
multi-family
mayor
Francia,
confirmed
at
a
public
meeting
when
I
asked
the
question
how
many
people
could
end
up
there,
he
said
between
four
and
six
thousand
people.
G
S
You
know
I
the
mayor
asked
earlier.
He
said
what
you
didn't
have
anything
better
to
do
tonight
and
you
know
honestly
I'm
here
to
just
be
supportive
of
counsel
and
Commissioners
that
are
working
towards
helping
us.
I
live
in
Saguaro
West
and
you
know
when
the
renaming
from
commercial
buffer
to
whatever
you
want
to
name
it
to
you're
right,
we
hear
buffer
and
we
do
expect
a
little
bit
of
a
buffer
to
help
us
maintain
our
desert
rural
lifestyle.
S
S
You
know,
I
fall
into
that
and
I
know
that
there
are.
You
know
we
talk
about
historic
things,
there's
things
like
historic
buffers
and,
as
this
whole
process
evolves,
I
hope
everybody
will
take
into
mind
that
you
know
there
are
things
that
are
within
your
control
to
help
us
preserve
the
lifestyle
that
we
manage
to
live
south
of
Carefree
Highway
and
not
in
the
town
court.
So
I
thank
you
for
your
time
and
I
hope.
Everybody
has
a
great
evening.