CHAOSS DEI Working Group, 21 Jun 2023

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From YouTube: DEI Working Group June 21, 2023

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Meeting Summary can be found here: https://chaoss.discourse.group/t/dei-working-group-meeting-summary-june-21-2023/190

A

Okay, there you go.

B

Hey everybody, it's June, 21st, it's the summer. Solstice right is that today, I think so the longest daylight hours of the Year hooray my favorite day of the whole year for.

C

Us on the like north of the equator, yeah.

B

Yeah true true yeah yeah.

B

Not a fan of cold weather, so now I'll just be dreading the days.

B

What I should do is just go just like flip-flop, you know so I'm always in summer. That would be great um anyway. I'll share.

C

By the way, I don't see you leaving Cincinnati so is I.

B

I really won't yeah I know: where is my window hold on a minute? I lost, I lost everything hang on a second sorry, everybody.

B

B

I swear I've done this before there.

A

B

Okay, yay yeah I'm, probably not ever gonna, leave Cincinnati, sorry to say, but you know: hey Never, Say, Never, I, guess um let me just open chat, so I make sure I see that as well. Okay, so if you haven't answered this, this was literally all I could come up with today. That's where my brain power is I, just I, don't know, I didn't have it I didn't have it so I'll put mine in here and it's 11.. Now it's 11 10.

B

um Yeah I just think it's curious to see where people are coming from Anonymous anteater I love that anyway, um uh for uh just a reminder, this meeting is under our code of conduct. So everybody here already knows that I think but I'll just say it again, and this meeting here is for our diversity, equity and inclusion working group. So things we talk about here for anybody who's watching this recording, maybe considering joining. We talk about Dei in chaos. We talk about Dei metrics. We talk about badging events and project badging.

B

um Basically, it's kind of like the place where all of those conversations happen so um and just for those who used to come to the badging meeting. We did lump that into this or roll that into this meeting as well. So um we're gonna split this meeting in half ish and we have a general agenda and then we will talk specifically about badging towards the end so Okay.

B

So yesterday, at the community meeting, we were talking about this um uh idea of being better at tracking, surfacing recognizing and appreciating these non-code contributions, which so often just kind of get buried in an open source project. um Chaos is I, mean these contributions are the bulk of our contributions. I would say, really I mean we. Obviously we have software here, and there are contributors to that and those those contributions are so much easier to track because you have, we have a GitHub API.

B

We have other things to help us with that, but it's so hard to make sure that we are um just kind of um recognizing those folks who are working a little bit behind the scenes. Things like design things like events, things like documentation, um working on metrics.

D

Even you know those.

B

Don't really show up anywhere, except for like maybe on the page where the metric happens, um but you know is that enough, I don't know, and- and we you know, Matt has some ideas here and we did have some other ideas um yesterday, specifically with regard to slack of having just like um a way to give people shout outs and just kind of recognize, awesome things that individuals have done.

B

um We have been doing a chaotic of the week, um we're thinking about maybe expanding that or including teams in that, so that you know, maybe we can include a little more people in those in that recognition.

B

um Also, yesterday we were talking about kind of how those things are separate, um recognizing and making sure people know that we appreciate them is a little bit different than tracking and I think they're, both extremely important, because I want to make sure that we we have enough folks to to work on events, for instance, is that something we need to? You know reach out to more people and I.

B

Do that manually with things like badging, like I, have my list of badgers, um but I do that manually, but I I keep an eye on that and make sure we have enough Badgers, um oh, which reminds me I, need to add this to the agenda. Sorry, my ADHD Brave um I'm, just gonna drop that in there okay, um but you know so things like that.

B

So I wanna I do want to track those contributions and who's making those just to make sure we have enough folks for sustainability purposes, um but I also think that you know recognizing appreciating is super super important, so I think um we talked yesterday about maybe starting with that piece, because that seems to be a little bit easier to um surface and recognize those folks and then maybe think about tracking how how that might work.

B

um But I would love to just kind of hear from this group if, if anybody has any other ideas, maybe if you missed the meeting um yesterday or if you had been thinking about it and came up with with some other ideas, I would just want to open it up to this group to see and make there may not be any more ideas and that's totally fine. That's.

D

B

Valid, but um if there are any I, would love to hear them.

D

um Contributions I remember coming across a repository sometime back that had a file on the page where none code contributions were tracked, so it's like a table like form and the contributors just write their names, the description of what they did and a link to it. Let's say you wrote an article, you drop the link or it you design a template.

D

You also drop the link to the figma file there, but you just drop links, so people can refer to it whenever they want to see your contributions, but it was like a table like page in a table like format that non-code contributors could just use that to create pull requests for their contributions and other persons can come and check it on there, too,.

B

I'm really glad that you said that because I I remember that also and then I thought did I dream that, like.

D

B

Just make that up in my head, so I'm really glad that you remember it too um I I do like that idea. I! Think it's a good! You know!

B

Kind of low-hanging, fruit to start tracking um I do have a couple of concerns with it just from a human standpoint that it feels kind of weird, sometimes for people to self recognize, or you know what I mean like they might be hesitant to add things in there um and also I I was a little bit afraid that if we do have it, if we do aggregate any kind of stats or anything like that, those are all going to just seem like not like code contributions, because they're all just going to get rolled into all the rest of the PRS.

B

So those are my only concerns with that, but I I mean I think as far as like a starting point, I think that might be a good way to at least start. You know at least at least start and and take that kind of idea, and maybe spread it out a little to other parts of the other parts of the um the project, because that was mostly a chaos. Africa thing is that right, Anita I think Ruth Maybe started that.

D

um Currently, there's no page like that for chaos Africa, oh, that I know of okay.

B

Do you know who initiated that was it roof foreign.

D

D

So it was from his community that I got that particular idea, but.

C

D

Couldn't remember the repository, so I can provide a link to it. Okay,.

B

That's okay, that's okay, um I think! Well, maybe Ruth and I had just talked about doing that. I, don't know I, don't remember! It's been a while it's been a while, but you know. Maybe there is a way that we can can leverage that that method, um keeping in mind some of the maybe caveats that come with it, but um yeah I like that idea. I'm just gonna put it on there exactly.

B

Any other ideas that folks have and again, if not that's completely fine.

C

So I had based on yesterday, I had an idea. Can you stop your share for a second.

C

So it was just something like super simple, where we just ask like: we just have like kind of a series of tabs where we this is for tracking, because it felt like yesterday, you were talking about tracking with the intention of helping the particular areas of chaos like not tracking, to recognize people. I, don't know if I'm getting that right, but it felt like some of the conversation was like tracking, so that we understand where there are potential problems in the project or tracking, so that we can like provide additional support where needed. Yeah.

B

I think it would be both, but um I mostly was, if, if we could figure out a way to track the data and be able to put it in like a dashboard or something like that, but that would be. The reason would be just. What you have here is to make sure that we have enough folks in the right places and that we can point folks to places if they're looking for somewhere to go and they have that skill set.

C

I guess what I was trying to do here was not this isn't about recognizing people. It was about just kind of asking people to reflect a little bit on like common. Do we have enough participants?

C

Are new people coming just like these really simple basic questions, and maybe this the spreadsheet was like made in like one second, but like just really simple ways for us to track how we think things are going and the different parts of the project so like we could have you know like software, you know what I mean auger.

B

And then maybe just ask like those um kind of team leaders exactly containers just to like reflect every periodically every order or something like that. Yeah.

C

Yeah or after some event, whenever it might be- and we just put this on the agenda like this comment- do you think you have enough participants like every yeah like every six months or something like that? And we just we're like no, the two people that show up every day and it's just something that or the two people that show up for the media. It's just something that we could take a look at um kind of as some of the maintainers of the project or I.

C

Don't I, don't quite know how this would work, but I'm, just I was trying to keep it really simple and just having people provide their own Insight, irrespective of what the data tells us like if I'd hate for I don't know, irrespective of what the data tells us, it's more just like a feeling of how people sense that things went. But maybe this is silly.

B

I, don't think it's silly at all, I think it's a good idea and I think. Maybe we could just experiment with it.

B

I, don't know um if we wanted to, we certainly could could set that up. You know.

C

So, like I guess for the folks that were like, if we just did like a simple question here like for the folks that were on the organizing team for chaoscon, do you think you had enough organizers.

C

Were there enough, you know that that list of people I think there were maybe eight to ten people on that list. Was that enough?

C

Was that too many were any of you, organizers, I, think some of you are.

B

Yes, Mary blessing: what do you think did you think you had enough folks to help plan that event or would it have been helpful to have more.

A

Was that the question.

B

No you're fine, we were just asking if you think we had enough, or you had enough folks on the planning team for chaoscon Africa to like make it um kind of easy on everybody, or was it um did you need more? Did you have too many that people didn't have anything to do we're just curious.

A

A

To help with the with the planet, um we even had like more volunteers coming so so I I wouldn't say it was too much. um We just had the right people you know coming to organize, but we should have a few persons that were inactive. Well, I mean we don't understand, you know they could have work so yeah.

C

So so that's like that's an interesting answer and so like if I was to answer that with say some of the chaos cons that we've done in the like chaoscon North, America I would honestly answer. No, sometimes that we haven't had enough people. We've had people listed on the organizing list, but I don't know that we've all necessarily participated in the same way. So like I like like I, don't know how data would tell us. That would be my problem that there's something underneath that that needs to be brought forward.

B

Yeah, that's a good point.

C

um But like to the other end on like chaos, cans like are they stressful for me like? No, because, typically like day of like it's just it's absolutely amazing, everybody just pulls together and works as a team, and it's absolutely amazing.

C

So, like is the event stressful itself, not particularly you know, so. I feel like we're good on on day of type of work, so maybe that question would be instead of like. Is it stressful, like? How did it run day of you know what I mean, like the planning part and the day of part? How about you Mary blessing was: was chaos con Africa stressful?

C

During the day it was happening.

A

um Okay, I used to say for the events day is that what you're asking for yeah.

C

Just the day so, like there's all the work that goes into planning, you know what I mean, like all the the stuff that happens like weeks before the actual day of the event, and then there's the day of the event like the actual date, I think it was the 14th of of June.

D

Is what happened.

C

Was that day, stressful for you.

A

A

Events right already likes to really inspection.

A

um I mean speakers.

A

Which wasn't cool but I mean we we had, we had with like improvise, so um so I think it wasn't. It wasn't. Stressful really I mean. Obviously posting events was not it's not surprising, but in general it's, it was really fun. um I wouldn't say it was. It was super stressful, I, I think I think the the fun the fun in it like super seed, the stress so, if.

C

It makes sense that totally makes sense um so I, so this is all okay, so I mean that's helpful again. That's super helpful so like to me if I was to to at.

A

A

C

I'm, sorry, you broke up a little bit Mary blessing I, didn't hear you real well anyway,.

A

Yeah I was just going to say that on that day, not everyone like would have a lot of work to do.

A

I think the book of work was majorly on, say the the host, then you know um the host and the social media team because they had to be on standby to like let the online online attend this understand, what's going on at each point of the event, so um every other person I put in the world throughout the event, but on that particular day they were like a lot of roles that were like don't mind, like other people, were not doing a lot of stuff just clean attention today you know have to be okay and we had Roots everywhere, because she had to like coordinate things.

A

um Then we had the host. You know having to do more of the work, bringing up um speakers and making sure everybody's just having fun. um Then also we had the social media team on standby. Then we have the volunteers, those the oshas and also to help you with registration. So those are like the few few things that were on standby on that day. That had a lot of work to do on that day, but every other team had done yet. So it will pretty much just chilling right. I.

C

Love it I, I, totally agree with you that, like the fun can outweigh the stress, you know, of course, there's good stress in the day, but the fun is usually over it's more. It's better.

C

B

C

Was just gonna- this is just my these are my thoughts I'm just trying to keep this really as we as we recognize people and we track, which I do think are kind of different things um that we can do it in maybe very simple ways and just like open communication ways I just ironically in the chaos project, I struggle with with data to help us do this. Sometimes.

B

What metrics a track and I'm like I, don't really track anything like I mean we track. You know things like who come like how many people are coming to meetings, and you know like how many people are on slack, but I mean really I, don't track a ton, so one.

C

Of the things that I'd like to get to are, they're kind of, like sometimes are Dei metrics they're they're they're things that we want to track. I want to understand are like. Maybe in this example like are our events being well planned in in that the burden is being shared by a lot of people in that planning and the day of is actually going well and it's fun.

C

You know to a very blessings point and like I, just don't think we can track data like that, and the things that we're trying to get at are are more of those Dei related metrics and so I hesitate when we are trying to do things with people that that we that we lean towards data.

D

Because a lot of the anyway.

C

But a lot of our Dei metrics are not based on Trace data. They just are not yeah.

D

C

Think it's okay for us to not do that as well, because we recommend other people don't do it.

B

Yeah yeah I mean especially with things like this, and um you know just making sure that people feel appreciated is really important. To me too, like I mean people are mostly volunteers here, and they could literally be doing anything else with their day and.

D

Sleeping or eating.

B

Or at like anything else, then they chose to come here and work with us at chaos, and so you know it's super important that I want to make sure they feel like. This is a worthwhile effort for that to come and and be a part of so um yeah I I mean I, like your.

D

B

And I think we should just try it like why not why we have nothing to lose and everything to gain. So um do we want to maybe start spreading the word to working groups that we would like.

C

Let me try to work on that spreadsheet. A little bit I could just think of. Maybe if, like two or three questions that we could ask yeah, it's like it's like our. Like our example say in a metric, you know just what what could we ask and maybe I go?

C

Maybe I look at some of our own metrics, like I'm thinking of the burnout metric that put together a long time ago and I just use some of those questions, and we we start just kind of asking our working groups and our event, organizing teams and something like that. Yeah.

D

C

Is only like it's only like three or four questions, it's just really simple. To ask people. We.

B

Could also like plop them in a Google form too, if.

C

That's yeah yep exactly yes, because then we can get the data out of a form as well and it actually probably be better to put into a Google form and just ask working groups to run it once every six months or something like that. Yeah you and I just set up a calendar reminder that encourages working groups to ask these questions. I, don't know we could think of the logistics, but there's something simple: yeah.

B

I'm going to put this in our agenda here.

B

C

And if anybody here would like to help me think through what those questions could be, that we might want to ask people um no problem, I'm happy to talk to you.

A

I also think that means a suggestion, like probably look through the minutes, notes.

D

B

Okay, I'm gonna share my screen again.

B

If that's cool, so I gave you an action item here: Matt, if that's cool, yep,.

C

Oh, that's good word.

D

B

Thanks everyone for that, and if you um think of anything else- and you want to talk about it, asynchronously in the slack Dei channel- that would also be great, so don't hesitate to just plop something in there. If you have some comments or something um I wanted to just let everybody know, we do have um some I'm already work in progress we are taking.

B

So um for those who remember we used to do once a month we used to do a weekly or weekly yeah, a monthly um onboarding call with uh whoever newcomer wanted to join, and it was a an hour-long presentation with um myself and Ruth, and it was just a lot of information that we just kind of threw at people in an hour just an hour of us talking to people.

B

So we got some feedback that it might be better broken into smaller chunks, that people could kind of go through when they have time and- and you know it's a little less just fire hose of information, so we're creating um a chaos course for newcomers where we're gonna, basically take that presentation and break it down into like five minute videos and and Link it to the docs.

B

If we have docs that also kind of correspond with that um and it'll be in kind of like um like a school setting or like a university setting, where you have your list of Court of modules that you can go through and it's like um you know, it'll keep track of what you've seen what you haven't and um should just be a little bit easier for people to kind of understand how much they know how much they still have to learn and they can just kind of do it at their own pace.

B

So we're working on that, where we've just started, building out kind of what would be in each of those modules and videos, and so um if, if anyone here is interested in working on, that um would love that help, especially with regard to creating videos or um writing a script for a video really anything um or just giving feedback on yeah. These are the right modules. There's stuff missing. You know whatever so um yeah. We would love that. So, just let me know.

C

I did look at so the this is I. Think the a sheet you had shared with me yesterday was this correct. Yeah.

B

C

I had also recommended that we start putting together a course just for open source in general as well. I did that on the second page and.

D

C

um I did look at Moodle as a hosting platform and it's I think it's like a hundred and ten dollars a year, so we can easily pay for that. Oh.

B

I thought it was free Okay, but.

C

Well, it's it's free! If you host it.

B

I, don't wanna.

C

C

So then we have to get a server anyway and install it on like a Cloud Server and otherwise, if we pay I, think 110 dollars. So here I can share it in the chat.

A

um Mark is this for hosting the videos and how about YouTube? It doesn't work.

C

This is about um putting together, so we wanted to put together a class or two that people could take. That would have like a series of learning modules that they could go through um Elizabeth. Do you have that.

B

uh Maybe oh, hey Jim I would love that. Yes, I love that yes agreed.

C

B

I'm gonna have to stop sharing if I'm gonna go searching. The vowels of my computer for.

C

That doc take a second, so I think because I think it's a explain. It.

D

A little bit yeah, let me just find that here really quick.

C

um So I'll bring up an example here as well. Maybe I think.

B

Yeah, uh where do they go? Oh I closed. All my stuff, okay hold on so.

C

Mary blessing this is this is my University, but this is like canvas which would be similar to Moodle, yes, and so we would set up like week week, one or whatever course one would be an introduction to chaos.

B

C

It would have a couple different videos in there and then only after they watch those videos. For example. We could do course two which would be like chaos, prod chaos, working groups or something like that, and it would have a couple videos that would describe say that chaos working groups and only after they take that course, could a person move on to the next course, and so we just need to have a tool that could help us kind of um regulate how people go through the course in the videos that they see.

C

So these videos could be on YouTube, that's fine, but we just the learning management system, just kind of helps, keep things locked or unlocked for people as they take a course. Does that make sense.

A

Absolutely cool.

C

And so this what you're seeing here is it's can it's called canvas and it's it's a it's, not open source and it's.

A

Sharing your screen, because it's not showing anything.

C

Okay, I was sharing my screen. Did you not see it.

A

Oh, it was showing the meeting notes. If that's what you were sharing this yeah.

C

This is, this: is a class. Do you see this.

A

No, it's showing the middle note. Really. Sorry, yeah! That's what he's been showing I.

B

Didn't hear a scream at that's weird: okay,.

C

What does anybody else see? Do you see this is the meeting notes, Here.

A

Oh, it's showing the missing note over here, like that's what you're displaying.

C

And right now, I'm showing the class.

A

D

B

Happening I don't know, what's going on, does.

C

Anybody know: does anybody else see this? The class screen.

B

I see the class.

C

Okay very blessing, it sounds like. Maybe something is weird for you.

C

You share it, so the point was being for those of you can imagine Mary blessing that there is a screen that it shows classes and.

A

C

A

With LMS, like learning management system, sorry.

C

Okay, so yeah, so canvas is just one of them and it's too expensive and it's not open source, and so we want to use moodle I think and we would just set up a series of classes like this.

C

This is just an example of the courses or that what we would call modules, I guess so these are, you know, 10 to 12 modules and only after a person watches the first module.

C

Would they be able to move on to the second module, at least that's the thought like it's a course. You take a course you you do one by one. You know.

B

What I mean yeah.

C

D

Think it's also helpful to.

B

um Keep everything in one place for people, so if they ever want to go back and reference, you know if they aren't sure about something they want to go back and reference that.

D

Video, it's like all right.

B

Here, it's all in your learning path. It's like your own Journey chaos, which I really kind of like that.

C

And then, if you scroll down I'm, also suggesting another class that would be on just open source in general, because I think there are a number of people who are are kind of participating in the chaos project or have an interest, but are also new not just to chaos but new, to open source.

D

C

It would probably be helpful to have a course that is, you know just.

D

Like why does it matter hold.

C

A

Yeah I know, did you remember.

A

I, don't think she remembers, but we're supposed to like, like chaos. Africa was supposed to like take off. Take up that path of you know, helping people out in open source generally, so I'm not sure if that's still valid or are we just going to I mean we did just one Theory like one Series so far so I don't know it's just been a lot of planning the chaos con, so I mean maybe we could take up from there or you want this to rather replace that.

B

No I think that that's totally still the plan like I think chaos Africa is is working on that a lot for sure and I'm guessing Matt just had some thoughts about what might be included because I know. Ruth has also been working on this too. So.

A

Yeah yeah yeah. We have been.

B

Do you think um here's a question for you? Do you think the work that chaos Africa is putting together for newcomers to open source is specific to the needs of of African contributors yeah or would it be like? Would there be two I don't know.

A

um That's a good question. That's a good question, but but I mean we could um we could have it in a way that it's it's it's it's it's um relevant to everybody and not just Africans, really like that's what I think it's a good question, because so far we've just been thinking specifically for the African needs. So foreign.

B

But I think that's something we can certainly work on and talk about like we don't have to. We don't have to figure that out today, um but that's good to know, that's good to know and that's definitely something. Let me just kind of put that in here.

B

B

Maybe we end up doing one for all different regions, because we are going to be. You know: kind of ramping, up, Regional activities in Latin, America and the Balkans, and so maybe yeah yep.

C

um Sorry I had to step away for just a second um I would say too, in terms of. Could you go back to that sheet? Sure back to this yeah and maybe scroll up a little bit like to the so right now like Elizabeth, you can all see that Elizabeth has herself like down as kind of narrating. The video I think we could probably do this, also collectively as a community and so like we could write.

C

We would probably want to write a script for each one of these anyway, like in terms of the the words that would be said for this five five minute overview and kind of the screen. You know we could create a slide deck, which would probably be easier than going back and forth between.

D

C

Like tabs on a on a browser- and you know if we write a script and have a slide deck created, the hope is is that we can have a whole bunch of different people. Maybe deliver these as well.

C

You know what I mean so like if you one way that another way to participate is not just helping my description, the slide deck, but even just narrating. The script through the slide deck would be really helpful.

C

Just as I think people going through the classes would really benefit by seeing a bunch of different folks kind of talking about chaos, not just always Elizabeth or always me, or something like that. I think it would be really helpful just in terms of connecting with since sometimes people. You know you know, you're, like oh I, know that person I hang out with them and they're doing a course that'd just be really great.

C

So the hope is is that if you want to do a course, you don't have to like write the whole script and do the whole slide deck and record it like all by yourself like we do this all together.

A

Maybe you could have people showing trash for this um specific part of the or module of the course they want to like um contribute to or assistant yeah. If that makes sense, it.

D

Does make sense.

B

I, like that, better than me doing everything, I I, love I, like I'm, always hesitant to um like give more work to people, but also I, would love I would love a lot of people want to help out with this and I. Think that's a fantastic idea. Matt is to definitely include as many folks as we can in for this. So.

C

It sounds like in the chat we had a number of people love the idea, I'm gonna assume that means you're interested in doing it. I'll read it, though, now.

D

You've been assigned.

B

D

B

Awesome- and you know yeah, like Matt, said like we, we could maybe have um like for the software part like. Maybe we could have Sean and Daniel or Sean, and somebody from grimoire lab help write this script out. So it wouldn't you know, like you, said, wouldn't necessarily have to be an expert on everything to help with these, so yeah I.

C

Think with the script you almost don't have to be an expert at all. Sometimes you can just read the script if it's a well-written script and you're just delivering the content so yeah.

B

Awesome, oh I, love that okay, so um so everybody has this access to this right. Do we uh want to just work on it async? What do you all think it'd.

C

Probably be good if people have feedback on it, I took a look at it yesterday. If anybody here on the call has feedback on the uh that'd be cool.

B

For a volunteer for any of the modules.

D

B

Just put it right there, and maybe, if there's a better way, to um coordinate everything like in a spreadsheet or on an issue in GitHub like, however, whatever people think would be the easiest way to coordinate this I'm down. I'm super down for.

C

Whatever probably I think the document that you just shared this one like we could just like, so you have like, what's in there like on number one but like it, could be like one C I could just do it, I guess I, don't have it up in front of me, but like 1C could be like link to script.

B

C

Yeah well just under newcomer resources, okay after B just hit, enter and then just say, link to script and then yeah, and then it would be to slide that.

D

B

C

One of these yeah we can have one D, which would be linked to slide deck or something like that, and we could ask you double.

B

And then um I'm gonna just take my name off the pan. It's okay, I'll.

D

Leave mine for the.

B

Intro, that's fine, but yeah.

B

I can do this one too I don't want to do it. Yeah.

C

And I'm thinking like a pretty like, we could just create a folder in in the chaos drive. That's like called chaos, classes or something like that yeah and we just have one that's like about chaos and one that's about open source and then that's where we can store all of the scripts and all of the.

C

Another tedious work, but you know what I mean.

D

B

I know I love that.

C

Wait whatever 10 documents and then just get those links updated in that main page.

B

Well, um do you know, do you know if Moodle will link just like import or link Ed whatever from.

C

Moodle, okay, I.

B

Don't I don't remember it's been years and years and years since I looked at it, so yeah.

D

I'll look at it again: okay,.

B

Awesome thanks: everybody, oh we're out of time. Okay! Well, you.

D

Can read the other updates or we can.

B

Talk about them next time, that's totally fine, too! um Oh, what a good meeting thanks. Everybody I'm so excited I love that I feel like we've made progress and we're so productive today. So well have a good rest of your day. Everybody- and we will see you here same time next week- care bye. Everyone bye, everyone.