CHAOSS Evolution Working Group, 6 May 2020

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From YouTube: CHAOSS.Evolution.May.6.2020

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CHAOSS.Evolution.May.6.2020

A

um Welcome everyone: this is the working group for evolution in the chaos project. Our meeting on may 6th at 9 a.m. Central daylight time. uh The meeting minutes have been posted to the zoom chat and you can follow us at github.com chaos.

A

Wg-Evolution, this meeting's recorded uh armstrong. I think uh you have a few thoughts to open our discussion with today.

B

uh Sorry come again, I just the line was broken.

A

Oh, uh I think you had uh before we started recording. I think you had a fairly good comment or that we are to discuss.

B

Oh yeah yeah, that's, I was just saying: if it is possible, we can spend some time or try to do some cleaning of our rebooster 3 to put things yeah easy to navigate, because I just try to put myself in the position of a new person who is trying to catch up and follow up what we are at.

B

It's not really.

C

B

C

Where you went armstrong because we have the chaos participate page, which should have everything.

D

C

Talk about the evolution.

D

Working group, I think, is what you're talking about specifically. Yes, I'm talking about the evolution working group. I see, I think.

A

I think some of the efforts- and I think evolution um has gone through um well, I'm just gonna, say it more evolution than any of the working groups and we have organized and reorganized how we focus on the metrics that we developed at least three times in the three years of the chaos project, and there have been different participants with different perspectives, and uh I think that's reflected in the uh the repository today.

C

I think that there's an up go ahead, so armstrong: do you think it's largely focused on cleaning up the readme in the repository.

B

Well, sometimes it's just to maybe read direct things. I mean sean has already given a very good insight that we have gone through a lot of evolution, which explains.

A

So so I think maybe it was early early in the fall. We we started, we sort of reshaped the focus areas. We spent several meetings um renaming and reshaping code development activity code, development, efficiency I'll share my screen. Actually this would be helpful if I, if I shared my screen on this one, can you see the chaos working group or did I share something else? No,.

C

A

Okay, so these focus areas for the for this working group are what have evolved, uh and this came after a good deep. There were previously other focus areas and- and these evolved through a lot of discussion in the fall as our latest iteration of how to organize our metrics inside this working group.

A

um I don't like I know. Historically, we have had use cases, but I honestly don't know if, if these use cases, for example to your point, I don't believe we refer to them routinely any longer, and so, when it comes to you know, cleaning things up, I don't think you, I think, with the goal. Question metric format that we take in the development of metrics now, especially really guiding our work with the spreadsheet that matt and kevin developed.

A

I don't think we would refer to these use.

C

Cases anymore, so they might in fact, like the implementations, that's kind of silly right above it.

A

C

I mean honestly, I think it's clearest to armstrong's point if the um readme can basically just say here are the focus areas here. Are the metrics yup.

A

You know what I mean, I think, implementations and use cases can definitely go away.

C

Yeah, that's what I think as well. Do you think that would help our strong.

A

And- and I think that the meeting info at the top of the readme is kind of critical, I had to scroll pretty far.

B

To propose moving that out, yes matt, it will help sorry I went. I was.

C

Freezed, no, no, that's fine! I I think armstrong, you bring up a good point, and this is something that I've been trying to do, whether it's just through the website or through the repository. Even like armstrong, did you see how I cleaned up the the metrics page?

C

Yes, like it's just much simpler now and we don't have like confusing information in one spot, that kind of contradicts information in another spot, exactly I actually think yeah. So I think, generally armstrong and sean, I mean the way I like to go on. These things is less information agreed.

A

Yeah because, because, like I think, if we go to code development activity, I'm not sure that it might might align with our release metrics, it might not, I think uh yeah we did this in the fall we created.

C

This there being some like differentiation between the released metrics and the metrics in the repo, I think just you getting rid of like um the use cases. I just did that.

A

C

I mean that helps because that's just one less piece of noise and and then the message can be listen. We have the the canonical metrics, the canonically released metrics on the web. Page right and anything you see in the repo metrics wise is work in progress period, full stop and so yeah. So maybe just making sure at least the focus areas align would be helpful.

A

C

And see like even usage right there, that's not correct anymore yeah.

A

uh Yeah because the releases are actually on the chaos website,.

C

Yeah and we don't track anything in the metrics page anymore. That's right!

C

Look what you did armstrong! You opened up a yeah.

A

A little it's a good thing: yeah, it is um so it was usage. This isn't faster for the revolution working group.

C

Let's just go to usage again I mean.

A

Yeah yeah, I think it's another.

C

Subheading, that can be yeah just more noise that doesn't need to be.

A

Yep um and uh released metrics for all working. uh This repository.

A

Is where new metrics are actively developed and prepared for release? Yeah at these metrics are available on the kr.

A

Website, like this.

C

A

Okay, updated me.

C

Okay, thanks armstrong, a little problem.

A

A little explanation in there to that commit, so carter knows why I've been committing things directly without a pull request, but I think for some of this stuff, just cleaning it up right now is better than going through a formal process, because already we've got.

C

We've we've gotten rid of three bullet points, scroll back up to the focus areas or scroll down. Somehow so the focus are: do those align with the web page uh good question um just go to metrics there. You go okay, so code development activity, efficiency. These.

A

Are exactly aligned.

C

Okay, so that's good, so at least the focus.

A

C

Are are aligned.

A

Yes, that yeah, I think I and I think, um we've been building metrics under those focus areas in the spreadsheet as well.

C

A

So I know uh we actually have some a few pull requests uh in the meeting notes, I think, um there's an inactive contributors metric, that is, it looks like carter's got it in a google doc right.

C

Now you um it's still in there.

A

In the repo yeah, I got a different. You see that.

C

You uh I was looking at my own. Can you scroll down.

C

So now see the meetings it's redundant with, what's at the top yep exactly.

A

uh Should it be, should I get rid of this whole paragraph here.

D

Yeah I mean that's.

C

A

Yeah yeah, okay, I can do that.

C

A

C

A

Be a fourth where, where is meetings must be under something it's under uh communication?

A

A

And we don't need the whole communications or.

C

A

List I guesses, but people.

C

To me, that's not real at this point.

A

The whole the whole communication.

C

Section: uh okay: well, then, get rid of it in the link above too.

A

I think I did all right um you're right. I didn't yet.

C

um And then the other, I guess the other kind of associated thing, then, is that we probably need to I'll. Let you finish typing I can listen. Why is um as we removed the links that were like uh the? What were they, the use cases and usage and stuff like that?

C

There were links to other markdown pages that are.

A

No longer linked like use cases, for example,.

C

Yeah so then, if you scroll back, uh go back in just to the main repo, just click on wg evolution yep. So now we like have like this laundry list of stuff. So the format, let me archive.

A

Some of this yeah, I think these implementations, so there's historically been a desire to put jupiter notebooks inside of the evolution working group and it's the only working group. That's followed that practice and I don't think any current active participants are using those jupiter notebooks. um We know the use cases.

C

So I think, just there maybe open an issue here that just says you know kind of clean up.

C

C

Even like there's a meeting notes, dot mark down scroll down.

C

14 it was updated for so carter must be updating that.

A

C

Based on the yeah.

E

We used to do our meeting notes in markdown.

A

Yeah- and I think I think carter can know that, um so we just use the the document now yeah. It looks like the google doc yeah oops that went too far stupid sean.

C

And so if you go back just like, we don't have to do all this now, but even things like then implementations.

A

Yeah, like I I I don't so I'm a little implementations um and bin.

C

What and- and I I just I think in use cases, they use folder yeah. Those are now how like the issue should just be. We need to rethink what those are maybe or something like that.

C

Yeah because I'm guessing this was armstrong's kind of issue as well. Not only is the readme overwhelming, but then you just kind of look at everything. That's in the repo and you're just like I don't know where to go, and.

C

C

A

C

I guess minutes isn't.

A

Okay, let's say.

C

This is getting it, what you want, or I'm trying.

B

Yes, mud, okay, cool.

A

um So all right, I made a note that arose out of our meeting discussion today, so that carter is aware of why I just did stuff to the work he's been doing.

C

Yeah less is more. You put that in one of the notes, yeah.

A

I did I put it in the issue. Okay or I actually was in a commit message. Yeah.

F

A

So maybe I'll just add it to this.

A

Yeah, I think I think I may have got that phrase from you repeating it to me over and over again.

C

Too much information- I didn't make up the phrase, but oh.

C

A

uh Philosophy and clarity of communication is less is more.

C

So I'm gonna, I'm just gonna mute myself for a little while here um and the recording.

E

C

On so actually, I might end up leaving. I may come back in a little bit, but okay, no problem. Okay,.

A

All right just making some comments, so carter is aware of why I did what I did yeah. I know he's been working real hard on this um evolution. Working group um there is, I don't know, is there a link to the spreadsheet at the top of our notes.

A

There's a there's, a metric spreadsheet.

D

I haven't linked it.

B

uh I think if you don't see it there, maybe if you go down on the previous meetings, you'll see it so.

A

Yep I found it yeah I've been trying to keep it at the top of the working group notes, because I think it's where a lot of us.

F

That, if you look at this black fold, release update spreadsheet link.

A

Are you looking at the evolution working groups minutes? Oh.

D

A

D

Yeah yeah there you go.

A

There you go: okay, all right: okay, wow, okay! I didn't see that there, I think perhaps.

E

We should put a url there, since that's the format we generally use.

A

Yeah, I don't want to completely undo what carter has been doing to clean things up for us. um I didn't notice the link.

B

But I think the link is self-explanatory. Yeah.

A

Maybe or just use the big one.

A

All right and I'm not gonna, totally destroy the organizing work carter's done, um but yeah okay. So now that I have that open. um Actually, I think we have a pull request, although in the I'm a little uncertain.

A

If I go to, we have a number of pull requests that I need to review.

B

But inactive contributors- yes, that's just the thing I want to ask: do we have the pull request for this because it seems it is still open until tomorrow, right.

A

Is I thought inactive contributors was one of the ones that it had been proposed and discussed in a meeting recently.

A

But now I don't see the pull request for it, so there is there's one that's in review right now, right, uh yes, under issues, we can see continuous release, notes, metric reviews, adding two new filters and then.

E

Okay, so the the continuous release notes issue new contributors.

E

Okay, go ahead kevin. uh The continuous release notes issue is just is a collection to to collect all of the release notes. So I the problem I was having when I was looking in here. The other day is: I know that we have another one. That's under that's in the comment period right now, but I don't know which one it is. I think it might be related to 337 issue. 337 changes to yes,.

A

E

New filters, so it is definitely added yeah. So I think that one is in the comment period, but I don't know that anything was announced on the website uh and we don't have an explicit.

B

Issue for it either. Yes, because I spent quite, I think, two weeks to figure it out, but I could not arrive at it.

A

So I think I think there I think we were the first to release a metric on an interim basis, and so I think the process of doing that has evolved from the stumbling of our working group, trying to figure out how to do that.

A

um So I think I think that this metric in all likelihood predates um the existence of the process, because it sort of caused the existence of a process yeah. That may be true. um That's how I remember it. I don't always remember things right, uh but I do think that the of the um this adding two filters has definitely been through. I guess we're through the release period on it.

E

A

um But I don't know to cartoo to armstrong's point I don't know if it was or when it was announced like I believe the way it was announced was I was. I sent an email to the mailing list about that.

A

However, I think armstrong, your point may be that it's there's no one place that one can go to see the metrics currently in um under review for interim release. Yes across the working groups. Is that fair yeah? Does it and kevin your? Your issue is really that. How do we keep track of the release? Notes for the continuous release.

E

uh So every every issue that goes through the release comment period should have. It should have an issue that is explicitly. This issue is here to capture comments, uh and so then, when you, when you announce the release, you direct people to that issue, that's right. I don't believe that there's an issue here that is explicitly set up to capture comments.

A

uh Certainly that was the intention of this one. However,.

E

So there's there's no doubt that the issue was was built.

A

E

To work on that.

A

Yes, there's there is no doubt so I created this issue and so I can add- and you did add the label to which which was helpful, but uh so rev okay, so we got the name of the metric and the descriptions have changes, uh we're not restructuring anything.

A

So I think I think the rest of what I had covers your comments. So your question so look at the closed issues. We have.

E

A

E

And you'll see that uh so issue 329 was the new contributors metric release candidate.

A

A

Oh okay, closed new contributors, okay, so yeah we finished this okay, so yeah. I think we were the first person, the first group to do uh a new release and this generated the process. So we did it for new contributors yeah. So if you, if you look at it, then.

C

D

A

So I think what I did is I didn't put the the heading information that is in here in the next one I created and we added those two filters yeah. So the mistake is: is mine for not recognizing there's a template to do this and I you must have been here on the march 11th meeting kevin. If we followed the template or oh yeah, I think I got this from yeah. I I.

A

Yeah, okay, so I've added that text now to this release. uh So I've added this to issue 337. However, you need continuous release notes. So the question is: does this.

E

Okay, so, where.

A

Would you derive that from so.

E

If you then pull up the continuous release, notes issue: okay,.

A

Hang on oh wait a minute, I'm sharing! Okay, all right, yep got it.

E

So the information that I would need about the new metric is is basically basically what I've done right there new metric, the name of the metric, the link to the metric comment period, issue, which we were just talking about. Okay. So how do we get that to you? What's the best way to well you you put it in this issue?

E

Oh, oh, oh, oh, okay, so this issue never gets closed this issue. um This issue would get closed when, when we do the regular release right, okay, which would be once or twice a year.

A

E

Is where we would capture.

A

Everything, so I would so what I would do is if I think, if I'm doing this right, then um metrics uh review metric changes adding to filters I've kind of created a little bit of a hairball by referring to the pull request, but it does show.

A

Basically, the status of the review is open or closed um it. It looks like just one line is added status, open or closed.

A

And I don't, but I don't know why.

A

Yeah, it looks like just one line is added and it says it add two filters, so I wonder if um something else got auto-committed by mistake.

A

Anyhow, um I believe it's just the status, that's well, it's clearly just the status. That's in this pull request um who put in the pull request. I think I did but let's find out, let's see if we can, should we just merge it yeah s. Goggins wants to merge.

E

From urgent, I think it looks good.

A

Oh from unknown repository.

A

uh Okay, let me see, let me see if this can even be merged, because I think I've done this before and it's not a pretty picture, but I think maybe, like occasionally I delete my repository. Let me see if I can merge.

A

Electric release for.

A

Open refer, um review, status, open or closed closed update to existing metric reviews right and then I would put that in a comment. uh Let's see, if it's going to merge, I got a feeling: that's gonna,.

A

Github has overcome my stupidity apparently at this point it managed to keep a reference to what I was pull requesting.

A

All right so at that point.

A

Then you want under the issue. If I am correct, you would want um uh metric update.

A

And actually you want you want me to refer to the commented issue right. I'm sorry which one are you in uh evolution release notes. Oh apparently, when I closed the pull request, it closed yeah apparent apparently so that was pretty pretty all right.

A

A

Request, I'm just going to make that comment and then.

A

I think I have to. I think I have to open another tab so that I can go back to your issue, so under evolution release notes. I would then say we released pull request. Number 332 released an update to the reviews, metric right.

E

uh No okay! So in in the release or I'm sorry, this is just it. This was an update to an existing metric.

A

Right, we just added a filter to an existing metric, okay and it so.

D

I think I think we had a comment period.

A

E

A

Think we also agreed that updates to current metrics wouldn't be pushed in the continuous release. They would be waiting for the the next major release. I think at some point we discussed that I think you're correct yep, so so yes, I would just I'll note that still.

E

A

Okay, not not for continuous release, but next full metrics release.

A

It's uh one update to the views metric to include new filters.

A

A

And then um that referred to the the review period, the comment period issues this one, which would be helpful for you to know right.

A

A

Okay, all right: this is good this way. We know this helps understand the the orientation of how we communicate to you about continuous release. It.

E

Also kind of gives you a high level overview of everything that was going on, so you can kind of see what's going on right now, right right.

A

Yeah yeah: that's a good point.

E

So I I edited the top comment to include a link to the uh spreadsheet.

E

Oh that's extremely helpful. uh So between between this the spreadsheet and the individual comment issues, I think those are all kind of linked together and that's how we would coordinate the process.

A

E

I don't know if that is that helpful for you as well.

A

E

Oh yeah armstrong: is it helpful for you.

B

A

B

My thing on me, because children are playing on the background. Oh.

A

Yeah, no, no, I understand my children are still sleeping. Oddly, I think I heard them stir, as my wife came in earlier.

F

Same here I have to keep on muting because there's a music playing in the background for my kids.

F

A

um Okay, so do we, uh I think I think we thanks to armstrong. We put some good work into tidying things up a little bit, um I'm gonna create a I'm gonna clone my patch branch and delete some.

A

I'm now two commits behind master all right after okay I'll deal with that later. Why don't we um but I'll? I'm gonna, delete the bin focus area and I'm sorry bin implementations and use cases folders in a pull request for next week or for two weeks from now, uh and we can go through a discussion about that as clean up um when that happens.

A

Does that make sense armstrong just like when matt was on the call he discussed getting rid of those folders? Does that still seem well.

B

Thought out to you.

A

Yeah okay, so if I'm going to um notes, I guess notes, uh I don't know how we did this uh lots of repository and release process formalization and tidying, see video and now, let's go to this inactive contributors. I know it was an at one juncture, a pull request um and I think, has now been.

A

Transformed into a google.

A

A

I don't there was a there was a pull request on this, and so I'm like that, uh so I'm a little unclear and I think maybe um let me just see too closed issues, better, pull requests.

A

Closed in case, there's a closed pull request: oh 334 numetric and active contributors.

A

A

So I think we have the metric.

B

A

Well, so that was merged. um So now we have hang on, let me say so: it was merged in the meeting. I think I missed the meeting two weeks ago, so we have inactive.

A

Contributors, so this is looks to me to be actually released and more up-to-date than the google doc.

A

um So I think this is a metrics to create a candidate for release.

A

At this point, I don't think the google doc is the right link um oops. I think I think this this. This is ready for the review period. I think so, I'm gonna. What do you think armstrong should I.

D

We got 10 minutes left. Should I open the issue.

B

We can open an issue because uh that's what I would like to discuss on the review period.

A

A

So oops um active.

A

Contributors metric.

A

And then kevin has some language.

E

C

They might just.

E

Be to look at some of the closed issues and just copy the copy, the language out of that.

A

Yeah this is well uh there we go here, we go there, we go. I've got one open boom, uh oh nope, I'm sorry that is. This issue was created to capture the continuous release. Notes, oh admit this.

E

Is the bad one.

A

This is the bad one, yeah.

E

F

E

It we just need to make it uh nope. No okay, this one all right, go close. Yeah click on closed. Okay! Do the new new contributors metric release candidate? Okay? So we just need to make it explicit that it is the uh that it's there to collect comments that way. If you visit the issue, it's I'm supposed to look at the metric and make comments on it right.

A

A

uh The metric inactive contributors.

A

That's for about.

E

And then in the in the title, rather than call it a new metric call it a metric release candidate.

A

Oh yeah metric release candidate. All right, I like that practice. um I want to label it with metrics candidate release.

A

um Is there any other step that I want to take here? Kevin.

E

You, if you want to you, can add the uh the review period date like that. The comment period date is this and it ends on such and such.

A

Period start date is may 6 2020 and we'll conclude on, let's say june 6 2020 um and I submit that issue. Is there? Is there a place, then kevin that you are that we tell you so that you can, because I think one of armstrong's concerns was that there isn't a place across chaos to go for seeing what's currently under review internally.

E

It might it might be nice to do that on the spreadsheet yeah. The spreadsheet is the connection for all of the work groups. So if there's.

C

E

There may actually be a tab on the spreadsheet, I'm not sure, or a category um considering released uh in progress yeah we could just we could call one of we could call it in review under under community review.

A

Boom yep and I can update this link to be the link for where it is the project. The issue yeah. Okay, I feel like I- should also um send a like- I feel like there should be some kind of notification on the mailing list. I did that the last time yeah like when a working group puts a metric into the review period.

A

E

I think we, uh I think I.

A

E

That and I think that's actually in the in the review handbook as well or in the in the governance handbook on reviews. I think that there's a line that basically says you notify the mailing list.

A

Yeah all right I'd, stop sharing my screen just as not to not share whatever is in my email with the video recording and it's just uh it's just chaos at lists.linuxfoundation.org.

A

uh Chaos lists yeah chaos at list linux foundation.

A

Evolution um new metric, um what it's not rolling release it's um interim release. This is continuous.

E

Release uh continuous, so the two releases are continuous and regular, uh the regular active contributors one to two times a year. The continuous release occurs uh as needed all.

A

Right the issue for the comment period, including a link to the proposed new metric, is here.

E

Maybe put a link to the spreadsheet as well and make a comment.

C

E

Says that the uh the the metric has been changed to in community review on the spreadsheet uh that way, you're just you're modeling the practice for everyone else.

A

Yes, you can see any metrics currently uh tag for continuous release in our shared spreadsheet here, so I'll get the link to that. I'm sorry, I'm not sharing my screen right now. It's just oh your phone exposed, my inbox to the recording.

A

A

Think this, I must say thanks revolution working group um and then I guess, what's cool is um maybe if I took a screenshot of what that looks,.

E

Like so, there is one more.

E

Thing uh the markdown folder or the markdown file, that's being released. It needs to be a blamer at the top of it.

A

Oh, oh right, yeah edit!

A

Why don't you make that the first comment in the in the review period kevin that way? I'm not! That way! I'm not doing anything that, like changing the mark.

E

And I can make that edit as well. If.

E

If you want, but I will make the comment and they're just a model once again, just just to document and model what needs to be.

A

E

A

Right on okay, so um take us back to our working group notes and I'll share. My screen again is that at this one um we have about three minutes left. So um this is inactive.

E

Contributors: okay,.

A

A

Where's metric out for review via issue spreadsheet stupid there we go spread oops issue, spreadsheet and mailing list. I think that basically covers it. Actually, I could link the issue here.

E

In yeah, it's a markdown italics is that uh the.

A

Single, I think it's a uh I don't know I don't know, I thought it was sometimes it depends on which editor you're using and get how markdowns a little weird like it's slight. It's slightly deviant from other markdown.

E

Yeah, that's that's. What gets me too. That's just it's slightly different, um but I think I got it right. Okay, yeah and I just I just put a comment into the uh metrics release.

E

A

Let's see all right and I'm trying to where am I I don't know why it keeps trying to paste from a different computer.

A

E

Apple ecosystem, you go back to that one yeah, so uh I just added that comment in 21 seconds ago. So the markdown file then needs to have the disclaimer added in italics, underneath uh underneath the question at the top, and it basically has the same information in it that uh that you've just put uh at the top right. So it has the the comment period yeah when it begins.

A

E

A

Yep yep and I did send it to the mailing list, so it should show up there uh 30 seconds left anything any oops, I'm on the wrong sheet. Now I think, um thanks to armstrong and kevin, we had a very productive, tidying meeting and uh kevin. I think you or matt generally put the video link in once. We're done. Recording uh matt does that okay, so I'm gonna stop the recording, and I wish everyone well and see you all in a couple weeks. Okay sounds.

F

A

All right, bye.