Chattanooga, Tennessee Miscellaneous, 20 Jun 2023

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From YouTube: Education Session on One Westside TIF

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Education Session on One Westside TIF for Chattanooga City Council,

A

B

All right, hello, everybody, how y'all doing fabulous all right so we'll call our uh I guess the education session, so we just go ahead and get started. uh This education session is about the one West Side plan, which includes the bin with Urban store Adventures, as well as the housing authority and Hamilton County Schools, so Jimmy just came in I, see the uh Charles and Betsy and everyone here so we'll go ahead and get started and there is a presentation from Columbia.

B

Residential Who is the um developer for this for this plan, so we'll go ahead and get started. I guess your mind. You're gonna kick us off yeah.

C

And so um thanks everyone for being here um in addition to Columbia Residential, we also have attorneys from bassberry and Sims. That will also be here um so uh Betsy Knotts is here from bestberry Sims office. Mark mamintov should be here momentarily. We also have representation from the Chattanooga Housing Authority, as well as Urban story. Ventures, that's here uh as well as the Chattanooga Chamber of Commerce, so we will go ahead and get started, and so the first part of this will be sort of a recap of last week.

C

I just wanted to make sure that everybody has. um Everybody has sort of a good handle on the numbers that we're throwing out here, as well as the process and so as of right now. What we are imagining is a 20-year Brownfield Tiff um that would allocate about 115 million dollars in the form of property, tax, incremental property, tax revenue and sales tax revenue. So a hundred million dollars comes from the real property tax revenue, that's split between the city and county, and then 15 million dollars comes from new incremental local options.

C

Sales tax revenue that only comes from the city and the reason that that only comes from the city is because under state law, the city is required to use its portion of local options sales tax to continue to fund public education. So there is no, there is no local option sales tax component for the county.

C

For that reason, this is again the area that we're discussing today, so we are discussing the bin, which is right next to the west side, as we conceptualized this Tiff, the Tiff District would include the bin footprint and then what we would do is allocate funding to the Chattanooga Housing Authority uh through intergovernmental agreements, as well as allocate funding to Hamilton County schools for the downtown Career and Technical Education Center.

C

These are some additional Community benefits that we've been able to negotiate So within the footprint of the bend itself there would be 10 of their units would be affordable to people at 80, Ami or less. We would utilize dbes for Contracting for at least 30 percent of contracts. All of the commercial office space would be built to lead silver standards. All of the park space, which is about 14 acres, would be dedicated to the city.

C

All of the public infrastructure would also be dedicated to the city, although it would be initially maintained by Urban story Ventures for the first few years and then Urban story. Ventures would also work to create a something similar to a business improvement district or something similar to it, and then there would also be many multimodal connectivity improvements.

C

I know that some of you have also reached out and expressed some interest in seeing multimodal improvements as well done to the downtown Gateway site school, and so that's something that we also will be thinking about as we move through this process and move through the economic impact plan to make sure that as people, if the gateways, the Gateway side is, of course, on the opposite side of ML King Boulevard.

C

So we want to make sure that we are facilitating the easy movement of people across the road to utilize the school.

C

So here's how we have imagined this Tiff, which is unique because we've never done a tiff like this in terms of the pro rata splits of the dollars, so you all are typically familiar with the normal split in which the city keeps around 40 percent of its increment, um that that is the case that we've done on most of our tips, not not all of them, but on most of our tips, the city has kept 40 percent of its increment and then roughly 59 or somewhere.

C

Thereabouts is dedicated to the Tiff or made available to the developer. This is a unique Tiff in that this imagines that the developer, which is the second line where it says 27 to the Tiff, the developer, is getting substantially a less of a percentage than they would under a normal Tiff. So in a normal Tiff where they would get closer to 60 percent, the city would protect and Reserve its 40 for the general fund, which is used for Debt Service.

C

We would dedicate about 27 to the Tiff 19.8 percent of the funding to the Chattanooga Housing Authority, seven percent, to help the county with the downtown Career and Technical education center. The city would retain an additional four percent to fund the construction of a future fire station, and then there would be about 2.5 percent uh dedicated to idb administrative fees. Now this Pro rata split is only for the city's portion. This does not include the counties portion of the of the Tiff, and this is only for the property taxes on the sales tax.

C

We would do uh something uh similar in that we would take half of the local option sales tax revenue that we have and make it available to the Tiff. Then we would take a quarter of it and send it to the general fund and the addition, the other quarter and dedicated to the city's affordable housing fund. And again this just go ahead.

D

Madam Vice chair is this a change from last? It's.

C

Not we just didn't get this into this level of detail.

E

Okay, right right.

F

So this is correct.

C

It's capped at 15 million, so.

E

After that, after.

C

That that's correct. Thank you Mr White! So after they reached 15 million dollars, then everything comes back to the general fund into the city's affordable housing fund. uh Councilman Ledford, you had a question I.

G

Hybrid situation, yeah.

C

I think that's fair I mean there's the developer. You know we've. We've we've worked very hard with the developer to reach an arrangement and an agreement in which we could make as much funding available for public goods and for public purposes and also make sure that we protect the city's interests in the process, but also help the private side of the development. Does that answer your question thanks.

D

C

D

I'd like to go back sure, so you.

F

Had said that, we were with the 20-year Brownfield tip: 100 million from Real Property Tax, 15 million generated from sales tax split.

F

What I then understand when I see this is Pro rata split of that 15 million dollars, so seven will.

C

Pro rat a split of all of the local options: sales tax, that's available to the city until they get to 15 million. Does that make sense.

C

So there's going to be a point at which time the new sales tax increment that they generate from all of the retail that they plan to build down there, there's going to be a point in time at which it hits 15 million dollars for them and then they're cut off and then any new and additional sales tax revenue from the local option. Sales tax is retained by the city and split into the affordable housing fund.

C

um So that's sort of the recap for the basics of the the the Tiff I want to sort of talk and to make sure that we spend a little bit of time before we get into the Chattanooga Housing Authority pieces. Just to make sure that we also spend some time talking about um uh just sort of how we have this set up in terms of being able to enter into intergovernmental agreements with the Chattanooga Housing Authority, as well as with the county for portions on the school pieces.

C

But before we sort of get into that, I wanted to see. If anyone had any additional questions about the first few slides.

H

Although the property tags.

C

H

What's the cap on the to the tip to the developer.

C

It's so it's a hundred million dollars total between the city and the county; okay, so that's their cap for the developer.

H

On the on sales, tax I mean on the on the property.

C

On the property tax and that's.

H

C

H

And then 15 million on top of that through.

C

The sales through the sales tax- that's a.

H

Potential 150 million.

C

It's 115 million and that's capped at 115.

C

C

Any of the traditional questions on the first part Betsy, you wanna, you wanna, you wanna jump in or you want to wing it for Mark yeah, okay, oh this is Betsy knots. She works for. uh She serves as external Council for the city on Tif on uh tiffs and uh she formally worked in the state comptroller's office uh over a local finance, and so now she works for bassberry Sims. So that's it right here and I'll. Just move.

I

Through the slides, okay sounds good nice to meet everyone all right, so we essentially put together an eight slideshow um with typical questions that we think you'd be asking regarding legal authority to do a project like this, because this is kind of an intricate sophisticated usage of both Brownfield sales, tax and property tax and there's a lot of collaboration between the city and the county and their projects, not only in the plan area itself, where the increments going to be generated.

I

There are some outside, and so we put together, basically the legal framework for the authority to do projects like this, and so this first slide just says: what are the eligible uses for taxing permit revenues when they're allocated to an industrial development board and I'm sure, you've heard Mark of the history of the Tiff statute that he wrote and then rewrote many years later.

I

um The bullet at the top is the Tiff uniformity act, so that one is from 2012. and essentially it says, tax increment revenues can be applied or reserved for purposes permitted by the relevant statute.

I

And so that's when you go since we're looking at an industrial development board and you look at the Industrial Development board statute, and so the second bullet shows you, the Industrial Development board statute and how broad it's written. So you can use tax increment revenues to promote economic development in the municipality, so it doesn't necessarily have to be just in the plan area and then you can use it to pay costs of projects or debt for bonds, the finance projects. So it's pretty straightforward.

I

Well, I! Think the Comptroller, the former one Justin Wilson, didn't like the the broadness of promote economic development in the municipality, and so this 2012 uniformity act came about and if you could switch and it it limits it.

I

um So here is the 753 sorry I didn't realize this slide was next. This is kind of the laundry list of projects under the idb statute. We didn't put all of them in there, but there's a ton, so you can use incremental revenues for public building of any city or county. You can use it for non-profit educational institution, multi-family, housing, public parks, buildings for commercial, Enterprises or offices.

I

um It's very um very broad, but it makes sense, I mean you're, using property tax revenues for a public building. That makes sense, that's pretty much a general government purpose um and then this is where we get more into um what is required of the plan area.

I

So plan areas have to contain one or more projects which we have here. We have the is it the infrastructure for the the bend?

I

That's the main project for the plan area, and then you have some side projects um and it says, as noted above tax increment can be applied to promote Economic Development anywhere in the municipality um and the idb statutes allow tax increment to be applied to pay the cost of any Project without any qualification that the project be located in the plan area, and that was the intent when Mark wrote the statute, and that is, that is how it's been implemented and interpreted.

I

So here we are the Tiff uniformity act. This is the one that puts some restrictions on that broad Authority that we just went over.

I

So the Tiff uniformity act provides that tax increment revenues allocated to the idb can only be used to pay public infrastructure costs. And if you look at the statute, that's defined pretty broadly, it also includes privately owned parking garages.

I

I

Hi Mark I'm talking about Tiff uniformity right, if you wanna jump in and tether, um so it restricts it to public infrastructure costs, and then you have to get State approval, which is what I was involved in in a prior life. And so, if your plan goes on for too many years, I mean the whole idea of a tiff. Is that you have this subsidy for a period of time. You get that area up and running, and then you take those sort of training wheels off and you let it go um before the uniformity act.

I

There wasn't a restriction on the time period, so you could essentially do this ad nauseum and unfortunately you know it could be abused and you could have slush funds that come up, and so this was enacted specifically to shut that down. So if there is a plan, that's going to go out Beyond 20 years for that's involving an industrial development board, it has to be approved by the state and then, if it's privately owned.

I

So we saw that broad economic development in the municipality very broad project that an idb can do if it's going to be privately owned. It also has to get State approval, so the state has to analyze it and see, but for the subsidy this project wouldn't occur, and so those are the two main restrictions that were added. But in addition, if you wanted to do something, that's outside of the plan area, that's Economic Development and doesn't fit into that list of projects that I went over.

I

You would also need to get State approval. Luckily, from what I understand what's planned here, it's it falls within that list of projects, so you're most likely not going to need to get State approval, but I think we plan to ask the Comptroller for his Blessing anyway, just to be safe.

C

Which we've done in the past, even when it wasn't required.

I

So I think this is essentially what I just went over, but there's your definition of public infrastructure, roads, streets, publicly owned privately owned parking lots, it's very Broad, um yes, and so here. In this instance, we have a school correct infrastructure for a low-income housing and fire station. Those are all going to be public public buildings and public infrastructure.

I

So we're not doing anything too fancy which is good and then Mark. Do you want to talk about the Tiff policies? Thank you, I'm glad. Actually,.

J

Betsy got a lead with the thing on Mark Bama, until it's really fast, for instance, and the.

K

J

Honor you just recently adopted, for the second time, tip policies with a couple of changes and thank you for doing that. The uh something I spent quite a bit of time, working with Jermaine on those policies, as you may remember, specifically exclude they're totally geared toward private developers, so they have a specific exclusion. And it's like the second paragraph. The policy said these policies only apply to an incentive request for a product developer to support a private project, and so it.

K

Was something actually that.

J

You know that the idb raise and question whether it should be broader and we specifically talked about projects at Cha might decide to ask you'll undertake or certainly City projects, and then obviously, in this instance, you are looking at in southern County.

J

I know, Phil and I haven't had a chance to totally delve into this, but it's it's it's my view that your existing policies um allow for the use for these other um governmental purposes. um Based on that exception, you know you certainly they're your policies they're the idb's policies.

J

You certainly could address that when you come back with a plan, if you have any reservations about that, I, don't I think that as they are written because the incentive for the private developer, the band definitely has to comply with the policies and I, don't think there's any waivers and stuff that we need as to their incentive. But this is a this is really outside of that. Really what you're looking at here is creating a dedicated income stream for use for these facilities.

J

um You could do it through an intergovernmental agreement. These funds could flow into your Journal fund and you could do it through an intergovernmental agreement and um to do it that way as well.

J

The purpose of the tip is really basically to structurally and long-term identify Revenue source and to make sure it's available and from Legally to support these projects, and so by doing it this way, instead of purely to intergovernmental agreement, you strengthen the dedication of the funds to do it this way, and so we're basically accomplishing in one minute or something you can do through um the uh so anyway, that's uh uh that's sort of our thinking on the tip policies.

J

This is Betsy's favorite slide, so I left those things yeah.

I

I, just always, this is the highlight of the uniformity act where, basically, it says once the um the projects are concluded or the debt's been paid off, that the increment needs to flow to the general fund of the tax agency. So the city and the county needs to return if they can't be- and that was a big change in 2012.

B

Or you had a question, yes,.

G

Ma'am, thank you Patsy good, to see you again, you too, um so. We've had this conversation in the last tip that we looked at and although it's set at 20 years, if development were to Skyrocket as we anticipate, um could that Inc could that time frame be reduced and is the mechanism in place for that to be reduced to basically pay off debt early.

I

Yes, I mean that is I'll. Let Mark.

J

A little bit more familiar with sort of the the negotiations with the developer I mean the way the the discussions today that would come back to you in the economic impact plan would Envision just what you talked about. It'll be caps, and so, if increment comes in quicker than expected, then those caps will be reached sooner and the to put in sooner, and so so what your response? Your question is. Definitely, yes, um it's important to know with this development, though, in most major developments are like this.

J

This is a phase development and the 20-year period is an allocation period. Most people come up and it's really confusing. They say 20 year tip 20-year tip it's not a 20 year tip it's a 20-year allocation period. The actual financing will match up with the allocation period, you're not going to really start allocating uh tax increment revenues until you complete buildings, and things like that. So it's important to know so what you, so what you're trying to do is capture the increment as as Lots or developed, to try and possible. For that reason.

J

So so, yes is the what that was a long answer to a question that you stand here. Yes, that's what lawyers.

G

Do I got one yeah.

J

L

A yes or no out of food, so.

G

In essence, there's not, uh it is not constructed for us to operate within the 20-year time frame. If we have the funds to create I, think you called it slush or discretionary or ancillary. However, you want to label that, because it is structured that and I know I know I know, uh but what the plans are from from the presentation is to pay off early, not to run the clock out so to speak. Is that am I fair to say that.

J

Yeah I think yeah.

G

Yes or no, it's fine all right. The answer is.

J

Definitely not to run the clock out is, is the uh the answers to get the the goal is to get these paid off as quickly paid off as quickly as possible?.

F

Yes. But but to that point, like all of the.

F

Look at a 30-year period, not a 20-year period for the build up and taper down of this new tax increment, because to your point, even if we're going gangbusters the reality is if something doesn't start building until 2029, that's right, right, phase, five I think.

B

F

That's right all things going smoothly right. Even if we're going gangbusters, it's not going to be a tidy 20-year box. We shouldn't expect it to.

C

Be right, but, and that also.

F

Just pay off early- it's probably unlikely, but.

C

It also means that, until that clock starts on that parcel, it's all going to the general fund, like does that make sense.

F

That's true, so it's the value of the Bend property.

E

F

And undeveloped parcel, even so, the value of that does go up.

L

F

Would be receiving full full tax Implement on that outside of this.

G

Is that going to be basically.

F

We would no or that money would go toward paying off the Tiff.

C

No you so so it is a 20-year allocation per period for each parcel. So before so in your example, if there is a parcel that doesn't come online until 2029, that parcel is that, like.

F

We're still getting that money into the general fund.

C

F

And the value is going yes.

C

In in theory, yes, that's right.

J

And if that said was totally correct and very insightful I think I would possible to be phasing on a test that there may you know so that as they complete phases, we may have multiple issues of debt to match. Up with the things of semi can pick past paid off quicker than others, and so.

D

J

um That's it's exactly right and I think we actually are negotiating for eight years Max for the build out and not a full 10 years, and so that's what makes something that will be an important factor in the economic index plan as.

G

The undeveloped Parcels sit on the rolls is that going to be determined by the assessor's office in their re-evaluation or their evaluation. Every four years.

C

Yes, but the developer. Typically in situations like this, we will usually give the developer the ability to to let us know when they want to trigger a parcel it's in their interest to trigger the parcel after the parcel has been fully redeveloped and reappraised by the by the assessor. Okay. That.

F

Makes sense yes,.

C

Yeah, that is to start the 20-year allocation that.

G

Clears up yeah.

C

M

One question of clarification: yes,.

C

M

Is it 20 years per parcel? It.

C

Could be yeah so.

M

I think I think we need to be I'm just sitting here listening and it's um in order to be clear. It's 20 years per parcel, yes, okay, which is fine, I, have no problem with that, but it's not just a 20-year. If a parcel doesn't start till 2028, then that kicks the 20 years, that's.

J

M

J

That's that's a very important point and the same thing that.

M

She says we should make so, yes, it will.

J

Be very explicit in the economic impact plan and it's.

M

No problem with it I just think we need to be clear. Thank.

F

You is there a is there a limit on the date to when a parcel can be triggered.

J

That's what we have to negotiate? Yes,.

M

Yes, okay, sure, yeah I think it's a great.

J

Project I just.

M

Think we need to be clear: I.

J

Think I'm really glad you said, because exactly what we need to see in the trigger date and but I always have to tell people triggering, is not in state law. It's something I just think it's a helpful concept to talk about, but you know that is really key. Most big developments are the 10-year triggering period that they have, and this one is one of the biggest ones that we've seen in Tennessee. So that's going to be a key negotiating Point. Okay,.

C

L

C

Think um I want to turn our attention a little bit to um the Chattanooga housing authority and plans for uh West Side evolves.

H

um Yes, councilman: if we're still talking about the Tiff, then I've got some I guess other follow-ups. um I know tonight we're voting on. um You know for the I guess rdb to consider the economic impact plan.

H

Is it possible and, and one of the things I would be looking for is I, don't know that we've ever done. This I want to see how the economic, the economic impact plan affects our budget.

H

You know, there's no doubt I'm sure it's going to this economic impact plan will say it's going to raise a gazillion dollars. Yeah, but I want to know how it will affect our budget almost from year to year. Okay, because we we have to maintain probably a three percent growth every year.

L

H

Order to just keep up with our maintenance of effort, and so you know one of the things I would look at. Is it what's the impact to our budget? If we don't do it what's the impact to our budget? If we do it sure, because I want to I mean you know, since I've been here, we've approved some tests and we've approved some Pilots, and this past year we saw what a two and a half percent Revenue growth and I'm thinking of all the pilots that we've done.

H

Why would we not see more growth than two and a half percent, so I want to know what kind of growth impact it's going to have on our budget? Okay uh for one, the other thing is I would like a scope of work on this. The infrastructure that we're going to do I mean, if we're talking about five miles at 198 million dollars, total that's nearly 40 million dollars a mile that is some expensive infrastructure.

H

I think we need to know what we're paying for.

C

Well, we're not paying for 198 million dollars.

H

Well, we we're going.

C

To pay up to 115 million, that's if it's Captain 115. so which is split between the county right, but um but yeah they have. They have a very detailed cost estimates for the infrastructure. So we can certainly.

H

And and and all of the Monies will be public infrastructure, we're not going to pay for any private infrastructure through this development, correct. That is.

C

Correct and will that be stated or noted or stated in the economic impact.

H

Okay, um I can provide some input there to.

E

That question as well, you know we have a very detailed budget and, to your point, that's expensive. If you look at it per month,.

E

H

You talk about 190 million dollars worth of infrastructure. Well, that sounds all well and good. You talk about that's five miles. Yeah.

E

Yeah the division, spaghetti noodles. If you will, let me go back 100 years right and- and so you know- obviously you know the infrastructure that was providing power and electricity, and things like that to the former industrial buildings that we tore down, that you know Asbestos and everything on the highest best use.

E

um It needs to be redone right, so you know I think how many tons of concrete do. We have on site 4.5 million square feet of concrete left to be removed yeah, so we've got to deal with a lot of infrastructure that we have to take away, so the demolition costs are significant even to get to a point where we have a pad ready site that we can go put the road infrastructure in you know varying power lines. Things like that. um We're.

H

Only paying for we're praying when I when I think of infrastructure, I, think of well typically roads but I'm. There's other I mean storm water, yada, yada yada. Are we paying to get building sites prepared.

E

Yes, we're structure will go to go to so, but in order to do that to get get the site, we've got to masquerade the entire site.

H

Okay, so maybe I've misunderstood what you.

E

Said yesterday and then yeah.

E

We were just talking about it earlier, um you know, I was talking to my contractor. Yesterday, hey I had an idea. What about the idea of taking some of the 1.5 million tons of whatever it is concrete, so putting a pressure on site taking that aggregate using a short Shoreline and things like that? It's daunting task uh to say the least, and that's how.

H

Much of the how much of the riverfront becomes public access all of them, so we've got building paths strategically located within that, but.

E

The plan is to currently take the Riverwalk and again you know this. This is wow, so.

H

The river walk in the riverfront to me is two different things. Yes, so it's a pretty.

E

H

Is access off the river to this property? Publicly asked publicly access? Yes, and our current plan is to leave that as public domain, and so when you look at the nine acres of park space and things like that, there are building pads within that footprint, but a majority of the site will be open to the public in the riverfront.

H

You know our current plans with the marine and things like that would be for it to be publicly versus private boat slopes, and so you know again, we've taken the the the um again I compared to the aquarium Redevelopment and what happened with that riverfront and and.

C

You know multiply that by two and a half times, that's kind of the scale and scope of what we're talking about that and we've always said hey. You know it's bigger than a single developer. This needs this is a legacy for the community. Okay, so you know there's a lot of public uh public space there within that ramp versus Cameron Harbor, but you know different than what happened next week. Okay,.

C

Okay, um councilman.

M

C

Ahead, councilman.

M

Burst follow up on his question. uh He made a comment about uh growth. Impact growth. Impact doesn't really mean anything unless you're talking about it. It juxtaposition with loss impact as I'm looking at this growth impact, can't be anything but positive. Even if it's just two percent, because we're getting nothing now correct.

C

M

Give them something well, but whatever we're getting now.

C

Isn't that this is It's a net addition, it's got to be unless.

M

You're, because I guess budget is my value work and what I'm trying to figure out is. Are you asking because of this Tiff other areas of the budget will lose no I'm, not.

H

Saying that I'm, just trying to make sure I'm saying I, want to know what the growth revenue is going to be to our budget. Because of this project, it ought to have.

K

H

Impact to our budget, or we.

M

Shouldn't do it well, any impact is good. It's got to be more than two percent I'm. Just trying to I was just trying to get the just here. Question. Okay and just remember.

C

To that point, councilwoman burgers that again every new dollar of property tax revenue on the city, Side, you keep an automatic 40 up, so you keep an automatic 40 cents of the dollar and then you're keeping an additional few cents to build a new fire station. So like there is to your point it it's all net new Revenue that.

F

Doesn't exist today, yes,.

C

But it's not all used for Debt Service.

L

C

Is is for the general fund, yes, and that was that was sort of done intentionally when this was first created back in 2015, because I think that there were some concerns that we would dedicate too much funding over. We would give up too much of of the city's portion of increment intuitive, because the county has to hold so much back for public schools, and so it was done in a way to try to create some balance between the city and county.

M

Yeah, my point was just that: I, don't want people, people kind of hear what they want to hear. Sure and I just wanted to make sure that the point was clear. This isn't going to have a negative impact on the budget. Correct, there's not going to be other things. We.

C

M

C

M

Of this, so the growth, whether it's two percent five percent, whatever it is- is still growth.

C

M

C

C

Madam Vice chair.

D

Well, I was I think, maybe where, where chip is headed, that's what it is. That is that.

F

To know what our budget would look like with or without it, because to to some extent and speed, the bend is going to be developed with or without this Tiff I. Think the the butt for in this scenario is without this Tiff. The speed is different and, most importantly, we've. We don't have 1700 units of affordable housing coming online in the form of the Chattanooga Housing Authority project. Right, like that, that's the.

C

Big and the scale is different.

L

F

The scale is different.

L

F

Right there will be, there will be sure um that that will happen and there will be Revenue coming to the city. If we agree to put 115 million dollars into into the infrastructure for the bend, it may have the most beautiful streets in the city, but that's 115 million dollars that we can't put into another portion of the city. That's woefully under infrastructure right, because.

L

F

It somewhere else for growth elsewhere, so I think your point about: let's see what the growth looks like one way or the other makes a lot of sense, so we haven't informed.

C

Yeah decision I think we would just say that the 115 wouldn't exist without the development, though- and that's that's where we're.

D

Going well because.

C

Because not because not to cut you off but I, think to councilman Henderson's point: will you see development there eventually sure absolutely right? The question, though, is, is it to the scale? Is it to the density that they are proposing? Does it have all of the commercial aspects that they are proposing, doesn't have the job creation aspects, and my guess is that the answer is no based on what Cameron Harbor looks like no, no disrespect to Cameron Harbor but I mean I.

C

Think that if you, if, if, if you just sort of follow and sort of, let it naturally occur, then I think you get a lot of three-story homes. You get some. You get a lot of market rate, housing, that's sort of Cameron harbor-esque and you just don't get the level of scale that you get with this development. That's that's also our position that.

F

Makes a lot of.

C

Sense yeah, let.

H

Me follow up to one thing you said and I had a minute to think about it and I apologize for having to run back and forth. uh It's tough running the business and trying to do this. At the same time,.

M

H

Think it could possibly have a negative effect, maybe in the short term anyway, depending on how things fall out, we we were all we will obviously start providing services before we start well, we'll get 40 percent of the revenue.

E

H

So I guess I want to make sure that that are that our services aren't being strained while we're receiving the 40 percent and- and that's that's. The thing like I have I have nothing to tell me what that looks like and that's the kind of thing that I want to know. What does that look like will? Will there be a period of time that our services are strained because we're only receiving 40 percent, so okay and I have nothing I.

L

H

Information, no data to base that on that's.

N

I just wanted to insert you know over the negotiations. We talked about trying to make sure that the city wasn't straying during any portion of that and that's why we wanted to take on the maintenance of those roads and those parks and those things for a period of time until that income came online. I think that's part of our benefits that you went over is one of the yes.

N

Here, but as far as the uh implications of the Brownfield I mean I think you know that's worth discussing at this time because he had Brownfield I, don't think the one's ever been done before this would be the first Brownfield tip related to the sales tax, and so to me you know looking.

E

At this from the outside in I, think that's the most opportunity for the city to benefit from this generated quicker quicker. You know, because it's not only just it's outside my purview in the accountants and attorneys get involved, but you know it's also in the cost of goods.

E

You know so when you're ordering materials for road infrastructure, concrete asphalt park, benches light poles, those kind of things you know the those dollars can be almost good, so those things will come in a lot quicker and when you look at the.

E

You know you're getting into a scenario where you know those dollars start coming in quicker and then thus reaching the cap quicker, uh which were capped at 15 million and the sales tax dollars are going to be significantly.

H

But that's that is in itself, uh I think something to really look good and when we go through this study. Well I mean that's. Something needs to be in this impact study. Yes, but I have no clue again.

N

The difference is there's retail is the economic drivers. We have that's right uh without if, if you're, looking at a lower density, camera and Hardware 2.0, the city misses out on all.

H

Potential retail taxes well it! So let me let me hit on that and I I mean that does the retail side of it. You know the brick and mortar stores, and even the offices that we're talking about I mean. Is there some data somewhere? As it says, America is returning back to the office space as opposed to working from home, because I know a whole lot of people that still working from home. Hence TVA is trying to do something with that.

H

O

I think maybe a couple points on that. um So first is on the residential side. You can typically expect 20 to 30 percent of these residences to operate.

O

So that's the first thing I'd say is that we are in a new world where residential doesn't just mean residential, and the second thing I'd say is: we've had more absorption. Chattanooga is a bit of an anomaly. You can purchase a lot more markets, so we've had more office absorption in the last few years than we've seen in multiple years.

O

Prior to that, which has been we've been fortunate with that, um yes, you have TVA, which is transitioning and that that's like transition out I mean things are headed, but we've absorbed I, think approximately 500 000 square feet of office, which is the second highest ever in Chattanooga, it's free as my understanding, so we're actually seeing pretty strong office absorption at this point.

H

So what is it I mean? Why here, what's that, due to.

O

What does I do for them? I.

H

Said what is that? Do you? What what like, why here, I think it's there's a few things one is. We didn't ever build to begin with right. We haven't seen substantial office development in the market in quite a long time, um and so because of that.

O

um The numbers that we're seeing we're seeing absorption of existing buildings that have come in um or that are absorption of existing Pro space that we have in the market today and so frankly, we're we're at and I've got numbers in here we're at three percent vacancy rate. So obviously you can see right now is 4.4 percent, the lowest vacancy rate we've had was 2019, which is 3.1, so there's not been very much of a change um and then it's tighter vacancy now than any point between 2007 and 2017..

O

So we're actually in a pretty tight point in the market and.

H

Part of it is as I know in my district, the hillock farms, you know, was a big rezoning controversy at one point in time and a lot of it was retail and Office Space and the only thing that's been built up there so far is Apartments.

O

It's a very traditional development. I can add to that too. We own a lot of office in town. You know we're a vacancy throughout the pandemic. Now we work with tenants on Implement and things like that. We all.

E

Survived our vacancy never got low uh overall in the marketplace to control this point, but it's getting to your point. You know uh what you're seeing from TVA and other corporate headquarters, and things like that is. You know why Chattanooga yeah mid-sized City in a no income tax state quality of life, affordability. uh You know, we've got a lot of positive things, but we've got a short window to attract those jobs.

E

You know people are coming on the pandemic they're coming out of code, but like TBA and they're saying how do we track boys back to work because it's not sustainable? We, you know there are certain segments of the market that can work from home, but we're social people right right being caged with being caged, but we're not right.

E

um You know one attracts the new Workforce ment and that's what we're building we're building this corporate campus with heavy infrastructure with with Riverfront with entertainment with residential. It's a live work play concept, they're call associated with that is we're all figuring out, but you know when you look at that Workforce, that's what they're looking for! They want access to the Riverwalk.

E

They want outdoor amenities because they want all those things they want park space they you know in you know every conversation I've had with all these corporate headquarters that are relocating from Chicago and places like that and competing against. Often uh you know Austin and other projects like that. You know.

E

Other cities like that, it's always the same company right um is how do I track my employees back just like retail, you know if you can buy things online yeah, it's an experience and so retailers that have created that experience or that are creating that basic need are the ones that are thriving in the same way with the workplace.

E

Every employer is coming back and saying: I don't want again, not enough, not again not a knock against Crystal and talent, but you know I, don't want Class B, Class C alternate perspective, you know, and when you look at Nashville, you know corporate headquarters after corporate headquarters after corporate headquarters, all new construction, I.E Oracle right right, Tiff uh associated with that. So again, that's that's. The trend and I.

E

Think, with retail as well I mean when you look at the canal district and design and our Partnerships and Hill Partners, it's a retail experience, indoor outdoor music than you uh rooftop space. You know the interaction between ground level and rooftop and view sheds and things like that. That's what's that's! What's selling right now and- and you know, we've got a unique opportunity to attract those jobs before they go elsewhere, and this campus does that.

C

So I want to be mindful of the clock um and so I just want to sort of summarize next steps. So today's vote reminder is not a vote for the Tiff. It's just a vote to sort of proceed to the next phase, which is the economic impact plan which is which pushed together the official sort of formal document that is required under state law, which is sort of like it's almost like the state's application for a tiff um and then you're still a required public hearing.

C

That's part of this process that has to come before the idb and then the city encount, the I'm, sorry, the city council and the County Commission each have to vote to approve the economic impact plan. At that point, that's the vote to approve the Tiff- that's probably uh a month to two months away, probably closer to two and then there's a development and financing agreement that has to be approved by the Industrial Development board. So there are several several steps still involved in this process, but I want to give a chance to Columbia Residential.

C

The master developer for West Side evolves to kind of come up and talk about their plans for West. Side evolves, Christina everyone. This is uh Christina dimorbus from uh Columbia Residential and they are the master developer for West Side of Oz.

P

Thanks Jermaine um I'm Christina, demerivas, I'm, director of development at Columbia Residential, my colleague, Jim growly, is here as well and we're here to maybe answer some questions that have come up um or that we're right now at the right opportunity to speak about the process. That's going to take place at the West Side involves transformation.

P

We are the master developers that have been selected, we've been procured by the Chattanooga housing authority, and so we're really coming alongside a great plan and helping with the implementation stage.

P

um I wanted to kind of back up a little bit and just I think this is a great opportunity. We've just talked about the Tiff and the bend and just kind of remind everybody. The interconnectivity between the two developments, so I won't go into great detail, but just wanted to remind everyone of the location which Jermaine's already hit on, but the fact that the success of the band really does um is super interconnected with the success of West.

P

Side evolves um in that that Tiff generates the necessary funding for the infrastructure, that's necessary for the Redevelopment of West, Side evolves, and so without that you know we don't have the money for the infrastructure on the west side. So I think that I just wanted to touch on that at a high level.

P

um We are excited to come in with a mixed income strategy on the on the west side of all's. Campus I think you just also heard some of the affordability that will be developed on the bend, and so these we see these developments as complementary. We're really excited to be part of such a great team, and so much action here happening in Chattanooga, um I. Think everybody's seen this. This is from the master plan itself, but it is really just looking at that stitching together of these communities that have been broken over time.

P

um The master plan really indicates for the West Side to re-establish an urban street grid. We do see that in our work across the country and then you're really establishing a street grid over at the bend, and so this is really just looking at that interconnectivity, so that everyone has access to the riverfront.

P

Everyone has access to the same great amenities that Jimmy just spoke about and and now we're kind of going into some of the details of what might be of concern to many, which is any necessary relocation that may take place, whereas the bend doesn't have existing residence really on its campus. We all know West Side does, um and we all have shared goals in common of making sure that the West Side residents and their well-being are really um protected throughout this process, and so in working with our partners at Chattanooga Housing Authority.

P

We made a list of some of the commitments that we, as Master developers, are making alongside the Chattanooga housing authority and I, want to explain some of those to you today, because I do feel like a really misunderstood piece on this, which maybe has been heard before, but not fully understood or explained or enough detail given um yet about it.

P

Is the build first strategy, so I will get into that in just a minute, but the build first strategy is a commitment to create more housing options before anyone is requested to move and before any demolition occurs on the west side. The second is the creation of new mixed income housing. We did speak about that a little bit on what is mixed income and what percentage is replacement units versus affordable, Workforce units versus unrestricted?

P

But the point here is really we're. Looking at a commitment to create new mixed income housing for all, regardless of income, the units are interchangeable. What we develop in similar Master developments um that Columbia Residential has has been you know, had the opportunity to work within. Is these units are interchangeable? We're not there's not a set of affordable units over here and a set of market rate. You said over here, they're mixed in the same building, so they're mixed in the same campus um commitment three would be providing the residents choices.

P

Every resident in the west side um will be given multiple choices and we'll get into that in in a few minutes, but choices as to where they may want to live both permanently and potentially in a temporary situation, while the rest of the development is occurring so again, I'll go into details in just a moment there. The fourth is honoring, the first right of return for all existing residents.

P

um I think that's really important to um remind everyone that there is this. This ongoing right to return, regardless of a choice that's made at the time of a move. A resident on the west side, has the opportunity to rise to the top of a wait list if they so choose to return to the development at a later date. I.

M

Have a really burning question.

P

M

Ma'am and it's it's of this- the first say five: when you're talking about people moving um I'm familiar with I, don't know if you did the project in Atlanta near the airport, but people weren't leaving the area they were moving into new facilities that were built for them, and so when we create provide choices and all this choices do what get out of the.

P

Area no ma'am, so that's a great question and we do have a slide on that. But I want to directly answer your question. Choices are going to be at different stages of this process. So um what will happen? Is an individual may have a choice during a temporary relocation move that might be. We have an empty unit that fits your unit, size and you've. You've designated a request to stay on site, maybe for a social network or Transportation issue.

P

A family member lives across the site, whatever their reason may be, it's going to be individualized to each household and so there's an indication that that individual may say my choice right now is to stay on site. I, don't want to take a voucher and move no household. Next to them may say: I want to take a voucher and I want to move I. You know that that is a choice that individuals will be given, there's a menu about, so it's not a one for one. No, there there's also.

P

So then, while we are developing new housing, there's got to be a choice that individuals have a choice to either move into the new housing. They will still have a choice to take a voucher. They may say they want to wait until housing is developed on a certain location of the site, so they want to be moved within the west side.

P

M

That make sense, I, guess I'm, using a different model. In my mind that I'm familiar with you, have 100 Apartments here.

L

M

And they're outdated, so you're going to build a hundred here and then allow people to move same neighborhoods same area same everything. It.

P

Might be good to flip through some of the visuals, but yes, we are there's a one for one replacement, housing commitment on this property that is published in the master plan, which has been adopted.

M

In the same location,.

P

So visually maybe it'd be helpful on the.

M

Yes, well, let's go to Vision yfd.

P

Site I, don't know what you're saying when you say in the same location. That's why I'm positive.

M

P

M

Neighborhood in this neighborhood or ages, right.

P

So in this neighborhood, which is inclusive of the yfd site, so that's how I would I wouldn't Define the neighborhood as it is defined in the master plan. It includes both College Hill, yfd site and other cha owned properties in the west side. I.

M

Mean my colleagues and be more clear: I I don't want it to look like gentrification.

A

No I understand what you're saying so. My question is: there is nothing at this site now that you can go and build right now that you could go and build in a hundred and those people that are in the area. Now whether the Departments are old and outdated, that you can't go to them and say: hey we've completed a hundred Apartments here you can move from here to there. So what I'm hearing you saying is they have to move in order for it to be billed and then moved again.

A

Okay, so now give me some clarity on that done.

P

Bottom here to to help help, hopefully clarify build first, is just that, so maybe we should skip to a slide that shows a visual.

L

P

Right so this is this: is an older yeah. Okay, um so we do have um the yfd site number one in in this PowerPoint in this visual is the yfd location. Is everybody familiar with that location? Yeah? Okay? So there are no homes on that location currently and that, as part of the master plan has been designated as phase one to contain the vertical first phase of housing. Okay,.

A

So when you have something right there, yes, okay, so I understand that phase one. So why does that have to be phase one? Why can't you go to a site that has nothing on it and let it be phase one thing on it: okay, so.

P

So that's what okay.

A

So yeah, but the building itself is empty. So you saying you're gonna have to tear that down right and then do anyway. Okay,.

P

The no displacement of residence on that site there are no residence on the yfd site.

F

The thing I think the thing that that the council didn't we we didn't connect a DOT on earlier- was that when one of these buildings down here on the left, that's not in.

P

F

P

F

When that building, when one of those buildings comes down, say you have a hundred residents that are at a zero to Thirty Ami, when we build when cha Builds on lot one, there may only be 45 units that.

L

F

0 30 Ami, so these 100 people can't just pick up and move which was the original understanding of council, though we know that within the plan as written, it's always been clear that that was what it would be, but there was a disconnect right here and I mean I've studied this plan. A lot and I totally was just it.

P

Is confusing so so.

F

It's while, ultimately, there would be a one for one of those 0 to 30 Ami units. It is not in phase one that every one of those 30s.

P

That's already would be replaced each time. That's a really good point. So so, right now, the master plan indicates about 120 units to be developed on the yfd site. The master plan also indicates mixed income. That's a commitment. This community has made to not concentrate poverty again, okay, so that would mean that only a third of the zero to thirty percent right that you're, the low income replacement units of College Hill would be contained within the first phase of housing as Master developers and coming in trying to implement this.

P

What we are looking at again, the same goal of Trying to minimize the number of individuals who might have to temporarily move what we are trying to do is increase that unit count on these early build first sites by increasing that unit count then you're increasing the number of people that will have a band of units to move into okay.

P

So not only are we trying to densify and look for financing which is going to be at the state level for low-income housing, tax credits, Gap funding, local level, it's going to come from everywhere, but in order to develop the more dense housing on the yfd site and locate other opportunities within the west side of Austin neighborhood that does not currently have housing on it. That is our goal. That is what we're here to do, and what we're looking and actively working to do to minimize I mean to your point: there's a differential.

P

It's a math equation! Right like we build. If you build 300 units, then you have a hundred units for for replacement housing in that in the first phase or two, but you got to finance the 300 units. It's you know right now, we're looking between 120, which was indicated in the master plan, and maybe maybe we can get to 220 on the yfd side.

P

I mean we're still in early stages of looking and penciling this out, but we're also looking like we said for other opportunities in the West Side neighborhood, in addition to the yfd site, to try to activate as many sites first and early so that we have one-time moves. That's the goal! Yes, ma'am.

A

Madam chair, yes, okay, I'm, sorry, okay, so I want to address uh another question that I had asked. Last week.

A

um It was stated to me that they would only be allowed to move back in if they qualify and so qualify is just too broad for me. So I asked exactly what do you mean qualify and I and I was told that they would have to have be in good standards. So what does good standards mean.

P

um They need to maintain their existing lease, as it was my understanding.

A

P

Well, okay, so.

A

Okay, so Betsy, if I'm not mistaken, what? What did you tell me in reference to that yeah.

K

Everybody anybody who's been displaced who live in one of the targeted units for demolition. If there are tenants in good standing, what that means is if they go off site and they have a lease either with the cha or would say hcvp landlord, they must be in good standing. They've got to make sure that they pay their rent on time or they're up to date with their rent. They don't violate the lease violation.

P

It's lease violation.

K

A

Okay, so um you were saying they couldn't have been late at any.

K

Time is that correct, I didn't say they basically.

K

30 days late and they catch up, you know it's going to be a case-by-case basis.

A

Okay, so, but being 30 days late, um for whatever reason you never know what a person's um yeah issue is or why they were 30 days like so I was on the impression that if they were, if they were late or if they had an issue with uh their income or finances, then they would not be allowed to come back so and- and that's once again- that's that's where it didn't set well with me.

A

um Would they have been without this property being renovated? Would they have been allowed to stay if they have had Financial issues before in their apartment, where they were? Where.

K

They are now they will and they desire to come back every single one of the families, everyone, whether they move into new units or whether they move off site, we'll have a case manager assigned to specifically to that family who will work with the family. So if the family is getting late, that case manager will help the family maintain their lease agreement, so I think you're, the one that said they're late for more than a month, they're not going to be able to come back that didn't come out of my mouth.

K

What I said is we're going to have to deal with families on a case-by-case basis because we're not in the business keeping families off we're here to welcome families back and.

P

Every family and I want to clarify too the commitment for one-to-one replacement. I mean it doesn't benefit anybody to say now. You can't move in the unit will be there and it will be reserved. It will be a it's deed, recorded. Okay, it's a deep restriction, so there's no way that these units will be required to be there. People who make a certain income band for the replacement units.

P

Do you see what I'm saying so it's not like if we get, if somehow, we figure out a way to disqualify certain individuals that we wouldn't build the housing, the housing will still be there. It's waiting for those occupants.

H

P

H

Will be residents that have to move off of this uh for a period of time? There.

P

Could potentially be residents that would have to to move out. We came in about two months ago and so we're we're working to pencil out things and apply for funding and.

H

Like I said intentionally as opposed to, there will.

P

L

P

H

P

We are able to find enough off-site housing and build first, which is the committed strategies when we were procured. We were told that that is the strategy that cha intends to follow, and so our job is to do our best to follow that it's Our intention to activate sites that don't currently have housing on it and in an effort to not have that, but it, but will it happen it could.

Q

One is there's opportunity to move. The Housing Authority has a lot of buildings in the west side, so it's opportunity to move temporal within the west side and never leave the west side, which is what we have understood in our few days.

Q

Here is really important for for residents and, secondly, residents have choices so part of the thing that works with the math is resident choices, and so one of the slides shows what was learned out of the master planning and what resident choices were you anticipated to make based on their survey in 2020., so I? That's there's several levers that can assure that people don't have to move against their will. That are part of this. It's not just the but the built. First is absolutely the the thing that's going to help it.

Q

The most is the more yes. We can build early, the the more options there are for people to move directly into the new house. So.

P

I, maybe to clarify on that point, as Master developers we're coming in we're trying to explain our process and what we've seen across our other developments in the Southeast I. Think betsycha has currently put out a procurement for a relocation specialist. Yes, yesterday, okay, so there'll be a professional group that will come in that will will take. What we have right now is one data point that was done. It was a robust survey work that was done during Master planning in 2020. This is part of the master plan from a snapshot in time.

P

This is indicating that approximately 25 percent of College Hill residents do not want to leave the site. We don't know if that number will go up. That number will go down, but we do know is that a professional group will be engaged to not just do a blast. You know to not do a survey but to individually do household data forms and understand exactly what each family may need at the time. Relocation may be necessary and give them their whole menu of choices, and it may be.

P

You have an option to move into the new house. Housing, you have an option to take a voucher or you can move and wait for a future phase of housing. There'll, be options provided to each family because each family is going to have their own unique set of circumstances.

A

H

B

Quick, uh my issue has been it always will be uh moving people off the site. I'll express that to you all especially expect that the Housing Authority, so what I would like to see because I don't want to belabor the point. What I would like to see is the current number of we're going to call them Legacy residents that want to remain on that site.

B

I want to see the actual percentage of College Hill, specifically College Hill residents, the actual uh I, don't need names and things I know: we've discussed fair housing and all those things I want to see the actual percentage of people that want to stay, because it's 20, 20. I, want to see an accurate 2023 number of those who want to stay the percentage and the actual number of doors, I believe and the type of doors. If it's.

L

Three bedrooms: two three bedrooms.

B

Whatever the case is and I think that would be very helpful in US understanding or help me understand it or being more supportive of this project because I understand there are people. You know like during campaigns and canvassing I know there are people that want to leave. I know that from directly talking around they say, hey get my voucher I'm out of here. Fine, there are those who, just you know, gonna, naturally go going to naturally leave for whatever reason they want to leave for.

B

uh But then you have a court group, it's not a huge group, but it is a core group of uh residents that want to say they've been there five ten years, and you know they want to say you'll know who those residents are. We don't need names.

B

Of course we can't have them, but I would like to see a 2023 number of those residents and I would like to see that within our economic impact plan, because I, you know and I understand that it may change, it may be, let's say 2023 you do it in 2025 y'all go back and do it again and numbers change. Well, we will know based on when you did it in 2023.

B

This is what y'all Built For This is what you built first for you built first for can't guarantee certain things, but you built first knowing this is the data number. This is the number that we are working with now, if you.

L

Say 20 yeah in.

B

20 25 26, whatever go back, do it again? Number change can't control that, but what we can control is what we do today and I think that data set. That number is going to be core and important for support for this for this project. For me, um because to me they were it's. It's a it's like a smoke screen, it's been they've been selling wolf tickets.

B

You know people been used to get all this data and do all this all these things, and now all of a sudden, they are um in essence, seem like they're being disposed of now. Okay, we got what we need. Let's, let's get the money and run on and that's not.

B

Maybe that may not be how you not you because I know y'all just got here of course, but that may not be you know the thought pattern over there, but that from a public standpoint, that's what it's viewed as it's viewed as we as a council approved a project that said one for one bill. First, cool people don't have to leave wonderful project. Then you've got the bending got a school in or a center.

L

B

Center in cool this is great and now we're coming back and saying well. Well, some people may have to be relocated, because they're on 40 of the units have to be this. Well, that's not, regardless of what's in the plan that was given to us or presented to us. These were not high notes that we understood from the beginning or were presented at the beginning, and it puts us in a tough spot to explain so our decision was now. Why did you approve it?

B

If you knew this well, why wasn't it presented or given to us in context? We got the content, but we didn't get the context of what what was actually meant, and so that is a very hard point uh for me personally, because these are my constituents. This is in District Seven. These are my constituents. These are my my voters, my my residents I care about, and so I don't want them to be viewed, as you know, now, all of a sudden.

B

It's this great project and they're getting pushed out, but they were a part of the process to get the funding part of the process to get the data and now they're not going to be able to do that or yeah yeah. They got the first right to return, but I don't know if anybody else has moved, but people don't try to move back and forth all the time. That's a lot to do, especially when you look at the Legacy residents that may be older.

B

That may be um may have some mental or some physical ailments or disabilities. Those are the people um when I talk about Legacy residents and core residents, and so because it's a housing project, it's a project projects end, and so we understand it and housing projects were not built for people to live there. Two three: four five generations, however, when you have people there, which is an actual small segment, then let's protect them and advocate for them. So that's that's where I am so that's what I'm like to see and that's my.

M

Can I actually add one thing to what you're saying so as a researcher? My problem with this is: if you go through that area, it would be very based on some of the things you've said. It would be very in 2020, with a questionnaire I'm surprised that not more than 75 percent said I want to get out of here, because it's it it's, as you said, they're 40 years old, they're, not they weren't, built yeah, so I think that's faulty research. The research would have to be.

M

Do you want to get out, get in or stay in the area when it's redone.

P

M

P

Think it's really maybe I didn't do a good job of explaining it. 25 of individuals said they wanted to stay on site, while the housing was coming. That.

M

Isn't what I'm talking about I.

P

Think it's important to recognize that even if 75 of people say I'm out we're still building the units for 100 of those individuals to to come back. So it's not there's not! That does not affect the unit mix, that's being built.

F

And just the question was asked question five one: if College, Hill and or Gateway is redeveloped and you need to be relocated. Are you interested in returning to the redeveloped site and 65.5 percent of people said yes, I want to return and 18.8 said. I would need more information, so you've.

P

Got children we're trying about.

F

80 of people are saying even if I have to move way, I want to come back.

P

This was specific to during the construction activity right if you giving the following options- and we had about so I'm looking for that Target group of like let's call them Legacy, you.

K

D

Used the term but.

P

You know they're in any development. You've got those that have been very engaged in the master planning and to your point shown to the meetings you know provided input and so right now the data point we have is 25 your point. Let's update it I understand.

M

So you have 65 if, if that's true that you want to return to an updated area.

D

M

So are those the data you're using for what you're building, because.

L

M

Me finish, because, if you're going to use mixed-use development, then that's a heck of a lot of building until they can return, and is there been a timeline? The whole idea is a good one. I'm not knocking the idea, but I don't want I, don't want smoke and mirrors. The whole idea is to refurbish the area. Do some social engineering, which is what this is uh and and that's cool it's the timeline.

M

If you give people vouchers and move them out to wherever you're moving them and they stay gone long enough, then chances are very poor that they'll return and and that's also a form of social engineering. Social engineering is not a bad thing. It's that we're some of the stuff that's being tossed out is the the band stuff great I'm I'm, all for it. This I'm I'm still a little on tilt, not what you're doing what you do is a good job.

M

It's the um it's, the numbers and the research that's being used to back up. Why we're doing this without looking at timelines? It's all I'm, saying this, isn't an anti-anything. What you wanted! What you want to do is I think well, never mind, you know what you want to do.

P

But but if an individual s rarely are they even elect to take a voucher? How do we I mean I didn't get to all the slides, which is.

M

Fun you build beautiful stuff, I'm aware of what you do. That's not what I'm saying.

P

Well, I right! So what I'm sorry I think what we're trying to say is that that does take.

P

In particular, in doing this type of work, but you're right, it does take concerted effort to continue to have a relationship with residents, even if they took a voucher and and they've moved somewhere to say we're coming up on phase three. You have an option to come back right now and by the way that option is preserved until every single phase is done and we're going to continue communicating with you. And if you want to move back, we actually pay for you to move back, we're paying the the connection fees, the moving costs.

P

We do that and so I think I hear you and I know what you're saying if, if someone's outside, though for too many years, what if they decide not to come back.

M

And I have a new forms. Has there been research to show that, for all these vouchers, there's places for these people to go.

K

M

So this is, please I, think you need to do all of this stuff thoughtfully. That.

K

That's all, and if you want to reply, ing the choice, neighborhood and hopefully in January 2024., the choice. Neighborhood Grant requires us to employ the engagement services to work directly with the residents. So let's say a resident elects the voucher to Ms Donnelly's point. They want to get off and let's say four years down the road. They had moved home toward mama and they want to come back.

K

They have a period of up to eight years to elect to come back and we consistently have to track those families for eight years under the cni grant parameters, and so they may decide we'll keep them on a list if, in year seven they said I want to come back well before we go to anyone from the outside, we'll Circle back to that family and offer them that opportunity. It's a requirement.

K

Let's go back to the build first dude, because the.

Q

Bill first was fundamental: we watched his plan to get developed and we work in a lot of different places. It's exemplary about Chattanooga's plan, but what it means is you've got to build more early, so you can make the choices as broad as possible for people to make one move. If they choose to stay on site, the the off-site is either their individual choice that they're not forced to make where it's a last resort. There's many other Resorts inside the west side that you have to work with, and so what we have to do.

Q

One of the things in the consequence is it it. We can build more housing, it takes longer. So that means longer till the first move, but that's important to understand because it's going to take. You know the financing and these kind of products put years to get together and.

L

Q

You have to build it and that's the first time anybody's going to move and we could say we're going to build more before the first person has to move because we're respecting their choices and we're on board with that with the plan was developed and it's complicated, but we can I believe that the team, the housing authority and- and we working with them have the levers to make sure that the wishes for those residents can occur.

Q

It's hard to say exactly how it's going to be because there's so many variables, but we may have to build two phases of housing before the first person moves. So everybody has that choice. But that's that's the.

M

Q

A

Okay, that's the whole different story. What you just said it it doesn't I mean what you just said is totally different from what has been presented to us from day one now, let me say this voucher. The voucher is not sitting well with me to me.

A

If you wanted to be fair and impartial, when you did the survey, when you talk to the people when you went to them, I think what you should have said or done is say we're going to rebuild you're going to have a new place to live you're going to be able to move into at that point. If anyone should have said I don't want to live over here then would have been the ideal time to say: okay.

A

Well, we can give you a voucher and you can move where would you like to live but to throw the voucher out there to say that um three years, four years down the road you can get where you need to be, the water has been muddy.

A

It's just muddy for me: it's I, it's nothing clear on it for me because it seems like to me everything that has been saying it done is to keep them from coming back instead of encouraging them to go into a area that they have been forever, that they can have um uh air conditioned or larger rooms or energy efficient or nicer places. Then if anyone say you're gonna move from here yeah, but you don't tell me I'm gonna get this new one here. Most of anyone would stay, I mean offer them the voucher.

A

After someone says to you that I don't want to stay over here, then you can say: okay, then you have another option. You have two more options here, but don't place it out there first, because to me that is always muddy: the water, it's it's putting them in an area that say boom. You can move it's putting everything in favor of to get them away from, and that's where my my issue comes with it. It's it's just the housing part is just messed up for me. It's really messed up.

Q

My apologize, if it wasn't clear anything, we're talking about building, is on site in the west side as part of the plan. So we that option is created in the west side and.

M

Q

Move and the choice to move is exactly when you said.

F

Q

F

Saying it it's when there's.

Q

A housing is here: the housing is built before there's the first moves and then.

P

Q

It's right here across the street or you have other options: okay,.

A

So if they want to give an object with the survey, the survey you threw the the um the uh voucher out, there is what I'm saying it's: it's not my totally my district, but it's my people, sure and my people have been done bad for so many years and have come in the back door on them. So many times have saying we're going to do this.

A

We're going to give you this we're going to give you that and I don't know if any of my people that want anything for free, not any of us, they want to pay their way. That's what they want to do. But my thing is this: to come at it that way, so that a box can be checked for you to go to your next phase and what needs to be done does not work for me that I mean I mean it was said to me that people move every every two years.

A

Those people like um a Madam chair said though I mean go back and redo it and I would ask I can't tell you to do that, but I would ask that you're, not even mention vouchers. Just go in and say: if you have an opportunity, we're going to rebuild and you move, would you like to stay here? Are you happy with going into a new unit or better unit, and if, if it's 10 of them that say I only want to stay over here, I don't have no problem with them godspeed.

A

We bless you where you want to go, we'll help you get there, bring your truck two men's and a truck or Uber whatever you need, we'll get you there okay, but to come and continue to muddy the water and to plant in their mind that they only have this choice to do this or do that who's to know three years from now everybody living paycheck to paycheck, who would even have money to move again to pay utility or do whatever it is whatever it is, but I mean my thing.

A

Is it's just it's it's um it's! It's not right to me now. I, don't know about the rest of my uh Council family. But for me it's not right.

B

So real quick, so we do have a 3 30 agenda session, so we're gonna have to wrap this on up um Jermaine. Do you have any closing thoughts before we get a journey from this yeah.

C

So the only thing that I was going to say is I hear what you're saying about the the sort of the engagement piece of this and I can't really speak to that we weren't the administration wasn't involved in the engagement um from our perspective. This is an unprecedented investment into affordable housing period, full stop, and so, when you look at what is proposed in terms of the amount of resources that is dedicated to the Chattanooga Housing Authority for the execution of West Side evolves.

C

You were talking if the developers are successful at meeting their goals, you're talking about numbers in excess of 80 million dollars, that kind of investment has never been invested in the west side, I mean if I'm wrong. You tell me that I'm wrong, but I don't know of a time when that level of resources has ever been invested into the sort of the revitalization of of a community that had such high levels of entrenched poverty and so from from the administration's perspective. That is the position that we are coming from. Is we didn't? We didn't?

C

We didn't choose how the engagement happened, but we saw an opportunity to to create a more Equitable outcome, and that is what we are pursuing and that's that's. Where we're coming from.

A

Well, it's sector's face off okay, it might be 80 million, but it is at the expense of the lower income.

C

Well, that's not that's not something that the administration is choosing to do right.

A

C

To to Christina's point, they are indeed restricted to provide 629 units of housing for people uh who are at. Is it zero to thirty percent Ami? So so all of those units will continue to be there in the future. West Side evolves now, I think what you're getting at is. Yes, there is clearly there could be a hardship on people I'm not disputing that.

C

But what I'm saying is is that in terms of creating the housing and creating the 629 units, plus additional units for Workforce housing for people at 31 to 60, Ami and then additional units for people at 60 to 80 percent Ami there, there has not been an investment like this into that level of housing in a long time and I would challenge you or anyone else to tell me differently, and so so, yes, I hear where you're coming from, um but I think from from the administration's perspective. We simply looked at this.

C

This whole development as a way to sort of create one West Side, a West Side that was connected and a west side in which we were able to put resources into a place that has had entrenched poverty that has not had resources in a long time. That's where we're coming from.

A

Well, you know the back door mentality is there and it has been there and there's something to be there and I see it now. So, hey.

B

So thank y'all so much for these uh we'll head out to our 3 30 agenda session, which is on our generation.