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From YouTube: Burlington Mayor's PC: New Climate Policies to Help Burlington Pursue Net Zero Energy Goal
Description
From the City of Burlington:
Mayor Miro Weinberger and local leaders discuss ambitious new climate policies that will help the City of Burlington pursue its bold Net Zero Energy by 2023 goal.
WHO:
Mayor Miro Weinberger
Darren Springer, General Manager, Burlington Electric Department
Bill Ward, Director, Burlington Department of Permitting and Inspections
Russ Scully, Owner and Developer, Hula Lakeside
Chenoa Hunt and Finley O’Neill, Burlington High School
Cristina Garcia, Caytie Campbell-Orrock, Directors, Building Electrification Institute (BEI)
Johanna Miller, Energy and Climate Action Program Director, Vermont Natural Resources Council (VNRC)
Peter Sterling, Executive Director, Renewable Energy Vermont (REV)
Paul Burns, Executive Director, Vermont Public Interest Research Group (VPIRG)
1/24/2023
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A
Here's
the
thing
with
these
incentives.
They
worked
since
announcing
our
first
package
of
incentives
for
bed,
customers,
residential
cold
climate
heat
pump
installations
increased
by
approximately
20
times
it's
and
now
in
2023.
It
has
never
been
easier
or
more
affordable
for
burlingtonians
to
Electrify
everything
because
of
the
major
changes
have
been
made
at
a
posse
level
at
the
at
the
national
level,
so
through
BD's,
robust
local
incentive
program,
combined
with
the
new
state
and
federal
support
flowing
from
the
historic
inflation
reduction
act.
A
In
many
cases,
burlingtonians
can
now
transition
their
home
heating
to
Electric
for
a
lower
monthly
cost
than
they
currently
pay
or
Buy
in
fuel
power.
A
new
electric
vehicle
for
a
lower
monthly
cost
than
driving
a
new
gas
powered
car
and
new.
This
year,
BD
has
launched
an
on-bill
financing
program
with
vhfa
for
low
and
moderate
income,
renters
and
homeowners
to
weatherize
their
homes
and
install
heat
pumps,
giving
a
whole
new
way
for
burlingtonians
to
Electrify
their
homes.
A
Well,
while
the
Net,
Zero
programs
and
services
BD
office
offers
lead
the
nation,
we
know
that
incentives
alone
won't
get
us
to
the
finish
line.
That's
why
we
fought
hard
for
new
regulatory
Authority
in
the
legislature
last
year
for
the
city
to
have
the
ability
to
regulate
building
energy,
which
is
the
largest
single
source
of
carbon
emission.
A
Since
then,
we've
worked
to
quickly
exercise
this
new
Authority
and
we'll
be
bringing
back
to
voters
this
town
meeting
day
a
new
proposal,
as
was
required
in
that
Charter
change
a
year
ago,
a
new
proposal
to
require
all
new
construction
to
be
renewable
and
that
City
buildings
and
large
commercial
buildings
only
replace
heating
and
hot
water
systems
with
renewable
technology
or
else
pay
a
reasonable
fee.
That
correctly
reflects
the
true
cost
of
carbon
pollution.
So
let
me
say
again
this
this.
A
That
is
what
we're
doing
here
by
first
making
it
as
affordable
and
appealing
as
possible
to
go
electric
and
power,
your
home
or
business
with
100,
renewable
energy
and
now
so
that
that's
the
that's
the
Cara
part
which
we've
had
for
years
and
which
are
very
significant
incentives
and
now
by
introducing
a
fair,
science-based
impact
fee
that
would
cover
the
real
lifetime
impact
of
any
new
fossil
fuel
infrastructure
in
those
categories
I
just
laid
out
together.
These
pioneering
policies
will
push
forward
the
Urgent
change.
A
We
need
to
realize
a
net
zero
future
you're
going
to
hear
in
a
moment
from
some
of
our
other
speakers
today.
Just
how
awesome
that
future
is
going
to
be
I'm
gonna
make
just
I
just
want
to
make
one
final
point.
In
closing,
last
year,
the
federal
government
passed
a
historic
piece
of
climate
legislation
intended
to
move
the
country
off
fossil
fuels.
The
inflation
reduction
Act.
A
Now
it's
up
to
State
and
local
leaders
to
implement
much
of
this
transformative
and
critical
vision,
and
we
are
poised
to
do
exactly
that
with
a
yes
vote
on
this
ballot
item
to
create
a
science-based
carbon
pollution
impact
fee
combined
with
the
aggressive
local
electrification
incentives
we've
already
created.
Burlington
will
have
a
powerful
combination
of
tools
to
make
good
on
this
critical
effort
and
to
show
other
communities
how
to
get
to
Net
Zero.
Thank
you
for
being
here
today
and
hearing
about
this.
A
Next
up
general
manager
of
the
Burlington
lecture,
Department,
someone
who
I
feel
so
fortunate
to
have
in
this
role,
especially
on
days
like
today
when
we
are
working
to
innovate,
new
new
climate
policy
changes,
I'm,
not
I,
don't
think
there's
another
general
manager
of
a
public
utility
in
the
country
that
is
more
skilled
and
effective
at
this
than
Darren
Springer,
so
excited
and
proud,
and
grateful
to
be
able
to
work
with
you
in
this
way.
Darren.
So
thank
you.
B
Thank
you
mayor.
We
have
a
Powerhouse
lineup
of
speakers
here
that
I'm
excited
both
virtual
and
and
here
in
person,
I'm
excited
to
turn
it
over
to
before
we
do
that.
We
were
going
to
run
through
a
few
slides
just
about
what
the
ballot
item
is
and
what
the
proposal
is,
and
so
I
think
we're
going
to
be
able
to
get
those
on
the
screen
here
and
we'll
go
to
the
first
slide,
and
this
just
talks
about
what
was
the
time
frame
for
all
of
this.
B
That
is
current
policy
in
this
City
of
Burlington.
But
what
we
found
out
was
a
portion
of
that
proposal
also
required
a
charter
change
in
order
specifically
to
implement
the
carbon
pollution
impact
fee,
and
so,
as
the
mayor
laid
out,
we
had
a
town
meeting
day
vote
in
2021.
We
had
the
legislature
and
the
governor
approve
at
the
charter
change
and
then,
since
May
of
2022,
our
department
and
our
colleagues
at
the
Department
of
Permitting
inspections
have
been
working
to
bring
forward
a
proposal
for
the
city
and
the
city
council
to
consider
so.
B
B
So
what
was
in
the
process
that
led
up
to
that?
We
had
a
variety
of
stakeholder
meetings
with
different
folks
who
would
be
impacted
by
the
policy.
We
went
to
all
of
the
different
npas
around
the
city
to
share
some
of
our
thoughts
myself.
My
colleague
Jen
green
who's
here
and
Chris
Burns
who's
here
worked
on
this
at
Burlington
electric,
along
with
Bill
Ward
who's,
going
to
speak
in
a
moment
and
Patty
Wayman
at
the
Department
of
Permitting
and
inspections.
B
We
worked
with
colleagues
from
the
building
electrification
Institute,
who
you're
going
to
hear
from
as
well,
which
is
a
national
group
that
works
with
cities
and
communities
around
the
country
on
building
electrification
and
climate
policy,
and
so
we
had
a
lot
of
process
and
a
lot
of
thinking
going
into
the
report
that
was
issued
next
slide.
Please
really
really
critical
point
what
is
covered
and
what
is
not
covered
under
the
proposed
policy.
So
buildings
that
would
be
covered
include.
B
New
construction
proposed
start
date
of
January
1,
2024,
large
existing
buildings,
and
really
there
are
about
80
buildings
in
the
city
that
are
over
50
000
square
feet
that
would
be
covered
under
the
large
existing
buildings
portion
and
then
City
buildings,
municipal
buildings
that
are
owned
and
operated
by
the
city,
which
means
what's
not
covered
here,
is
all
existing
residential
buildings,
whether
that's
single-family,
home,
rental,
condo,
affordable,
housing,
all
small
businesses
and
then
all
other
buildings
that
are
under
50
000
square
feet.
So
this
is
a
very,
very
focused
proposal.
B
That's
looking
at
new
construction
and
large
existing
buildings
and
City
buildings
next
slide,
please.
So
the
recommendations
for
new
construction
are
really
to
be
100
renewable
and
this
kind
of
Builds
on
that
existing
ordinance.
That
I
mentioned
but
goes
further.
The
idea
here
is,
if
we
have
the
goal
of
becoming
a
Net,
Zero
Energy
City
by
2030.
We
need
all
new
construction
to
be
100
renewable,
and
that
means
not
only
the
heating
system
and
the
water
heating
system,
but
the
cooking,
the
clothes
drying.
B
All
the
different
thermal
uses
that
we
think
of
in
a
building
would
be
renewable.
Under
this
policy,
or
as
an
alternative
compliance
option,
if
a
building
was
not
able
to
be
renewable,
there
would
be
a
carbon
impact
fee
at
the
time
of
Permitting.
That
would
be
assessed
to
account
for
the
pollution
impact
from
using
a
conventional
system.
Renewable
is
a
fairly
broad
definition,
and
this
is
very
consistent
with
what
the
state
is
considering
for
the
affordable
heating
act
or
the
clean
heat
standard.
B
If
an
existing
building
pays
in
that
the
building
could
get
some
of
that
back
to
be
able
to
utilize
that
for
emissions
reduction
projects
at
their
campus
or
at
their
facility-
and
there
would
also
be
credit
for
actions
that
the
building
takes
outside
of
the
scope
of
the
policy.
If
they
go
further
than
what
we're
asking
to
reduce
fossil
fuel
use,
there
would
be
credit
associated
with
that
under
the
policy.
So
back
to
the
Keratin
sticks
concept
that
was
mentioned
earlier
next
slide.
Please.
B
B
So
those
are
the
primary
purposes
of
the
use
of
the
fee.
Next
slide,
please
what
we're
going
to
run
through
now,
just
briefly
are
a
few
examples
of
analysis
that
we
did
with
the
building
electrification,
Institute
that
look
at
the
costs
of
the
different
options
that
are
available.
This
slide
here
looks
at
a
real
building
that
was
built
in
the
city,
150
000
square
feet,
multi-family
new
construction
building
and
compares
the
cost
of
a
fossil
fuel
system
and
and
also
a
fossil
fuel
system
with
the
carbon
fee
applied.
B
Those
are
the
first
two
bars
on
the
left,
with
different
renewable
Technologies
from
an
upfront
Capital
standpoint
and
demonstrates
that
a
variety
of
the
renewable
Technologies
are
cost
competitive
with
the
Baseline
system,
as
is,
and
that
when
you
apply
the
carbon
fee,
you
level
the
playing
field
even
further.
You
make
it
even
more
clear
that
the
renewable
option
is
the
cost-effective
option.
Next
slide,
please.
We
also
looked
at
operating
costs
looking
at
current
electric
and
gas
rates
in
the
city,
and
this
is
operating
cost
for
that
same
multi-family
building.
B
This
looks
at
tenant,
metered
building,
sometimes
the
tenant
has
the
meter
sometimes
there's
a
single
meter
for
the
building
we'll
do
both
in
this
example.
As
you
can
see,
all
of
the
renewable
options
are
cheaper
to
operate
than
the
typical
multi-family
Baseline
system,
and
also
cost
competitive
or
cheaper
than
the
new
construction
gas
baseboard
system.
So
what
we're
really
looking
at
here
is
there
can
be
an
operating
cost
Advantage
with
renewable
Technologies
relative
to
fossil
fuels.
B
Next
slide,
please
in
this
example,
which
is
the
same
building,
but
looking
at
it
as
a
single
meter
as
opposed
to
the
tenant
each
having
their
own
meter.
There
are
some
differences,
but,
as
you
can
see,
the
renewable
options
in
green
are
largely
cost
competitive
with
the
typical,
which
is
on
the
left
here,
the
typical
existing
multi-family
building
system.
There
are
some
cases
where
the
Baseline
new
construction
system
is
a
little
cheaper
as
conventional,
but
largely
making
the
same
point
that
on
an
operating
cost
basis,
renewable
can
be
cost
competitive
with
fossil
fuels.
B
Next
slide,
please
one
last
operating
cost
example.
This
looks
at
a
sixty
thousand
square
foot
office
building
again
in
the
city,
looking
at
a
new
construction
office
building
and
looking
at
different
heat
pump
and
geothermal
options
and
showing
that
in
most
cases,
the
renewable
option
is
going
to
be
cheaper
to
operate
based
on
current
rates
than
the
fossil
fuel
system,
and
that's
really
that's
a
recent
development
where
electric
rates
have
been
relatively
stable.
B
Gas
costs
have
gone
up
significantly,
and
so
we
have
a
price
Advantage
now
with
renewable
with
electric
that
we
didn't
have
maybe
a
few
years
ago,
and
then
our
last
slide
here
looks
at
one
more
Capital
cost
comparison.
This
is
for
an
upfront,
Capital
cost
if
you
were
an
existing
building,
and
this
looks
at
a
real
building
again
in
the
city-
that's
about
50
000
square
feet
and
looks
at
what
the
Baseline
fossil
fuel
system
replacement
would
cost
and
then
looks
at
it
with
the
carbon
fee
compared
to
the
various
renewable
options.
B
And
what
you
can
see
is
the
carbon
fee
here
really
makes
a
difference.
This
is
an
example
where,
if
we
don't
have
a
carbon
pollution
impact
fee,
it
might
be
cheaper
up
front
to
go
with
a
fossil
fuel
system,
but
when
we
account
for
the
health
and
environmental
impacts
of
the
fossil
fuel
use
through
that
fee
and
then
we'd
make
the
comparison
with
the
dark
gray
bar
versus
all
of
the
green
bars.
B
C
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
Mr
Mayor.
Thank
you.
I
just
have
a
few
brief
comments.
I
wanted
to
make
sure
people
knew
first,
that
I
am
Bill
Ward
I'm,
the
director
of
the
permitting
and
inspections
department,
it's
a
relatively
new
department,
but
it's
the
important
Gateway
department
for
projects
coming
to
compliance
with
the
policies
you've
heard
described
today
and
as
such
in
2021,
we
instituted
an
online
permitting
system.
The
software
system
is
simplified.
It
makes
it
so
much
easier
for
typical
applicant
to
both
apply
for
and
receive
approval
for
permits.
C
The
other
is
the
secondary
part
would
be
if
they
don't
meet
those
our
team
would
work
closely
with
the
applicant
and
with
Darren's
team
to
see
that
they
can
comply
and
meet
the
requirements
and
would
potentially
pay
that
carbon
impact
fee
if
that
becomes
necessary,
but
we
will
work
with
property
owners
and
applicants.
In
all
cases
like
we
have
been
doing,
we're
excited
to
work
on
this
project,
not
only
for
the
applicants,
but
also
for
the
betterment
of
everyone
who
lives,
works
and
recreates
in
Burlington.
It
makes
it
a
better
place
for
all
of
us.
B
Thanks
Bill
next
up
in
our
Powerhouse
lineup,
we
have
Russ
Scully
from
hula,
and
we
want
to
thank
hula
for
hosting
this
event
today
and
for
being
such
a
great
example
of
what
renewable
Heating
and
renewable
Technologies
look
like
in
the
city.
So
Russ
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
you,
thanks
for
for
being
with
us,
virtually.
E
We're
all
of
us
at
all
are
very
proud
of
really
the
efficiencies
that
we
realize
some
of
the
goals
that
we
set
out
to
obtain
from
an
Energy
Efficiency
standpoint
as
well
as
a
you
know,
carbon
carbon
oxide
or
mitigation
plan
and
strategy
and
I
gotta
say
that
you
know
we
have
a
lot
of
help
in
this.
You
know
everyone
understands
the
real
cost,
the
development
costs
associated
with
a
project
like
this.
E
E
It
really
helped
us
to
know
sort
of
the
long-term
Financial
efficiencies
that
we
would
realize
from
taking
some
of
the
steps
that
we
did
to
not
only
install
the
geothermal
heating
system
that
we're
really
proud
of
that's
been
incredible
to
to
to
not
only
to
work
with.
But
you
know
the
long-term
maintenance
costs
of
these
systems
are
are
much
less
significant
than
than
the
comparables
of
the
old
fossil
fuel
based
systems
that
that
came
building
and
were
replaced
by
the
the
geothermal
Wells
that
are
Heating
and
Cooling
the
space.
E
Now
the
realization
of
all
the
renewable
energy
that
we
were
able
to
put
in
place
with
the
800
kilowatt
array,
that's
on
the
rooftop
for
the
whole
abilities.
It's
been
fantastic,
the
realization
of
peak
shaving
and
all
kinds
of
other
sort
of
solar
strategies
that
that
buildings,
like
Google,
can
put
in
place
to
really
minimize
their.
How
much
how
much
energy
we're
actually
consuming?
And
you
know
the
point
that
was
brought
up
earlier-
is
a
real
one.
You
know
the
the
the
realization
and
the
reality
of
installing
and
separately
metering.
E
All
of
these
tenants
is
a
lot
of
unnecessary
capital
expenditure.
Unnecessary
work,
a
lot
of
additional
maintenance
that
just
goes
away
when
we're
able
to
build
a
system
that
essentially
allows
us
to
pass
a
lot
of
the
savings,
a
lot
of
the
energy
saving
for
heating
and
cooling
and
electrification
onto
all
the
tenants
in
the
building
and
at
the
same
time,
there's
not.
You
know-
and
this
is
all
stuff
that
we
feel
good
about,
because
obviously
it's
better
for
the
environment,
but
but
it's
also
it's
it's
future
forward
as
well.
E
If
you're
going
to
go
through
a
large-scale
renovation
and
Rehabilitation
like
we
did
in
this
old
industrial
building,
it's
it's
an
easy
win
in
terms
of
finding
efficiencies
that
just
really
modernize
the
building,
but
make
it
just
a
much
more
comfortable
place
to
live
and
to
work
and
and
to
ultimately
find
it.
So,
thanks
again
for
being
in
the
building
with
us
today,
again
I'm,
sorry,
I
can't
be
there
in
person,
but
I'm
really
excited
about
this
initiative
and
happening
any
questions.
B
Thank
you
Russ,
thank
you
so
much
for
for
allowing
us
to
be
here
today
to
hold
the
event.
We're
really
honored
to
be
joined
by
three
Burlington
High
School
seniors,
who
have
been
part
of
the
city
and
Lake
program
and
who
are
thinking
a
lot
about
climate
change,
Chenoa,
Finley
and
Vivian
like
to
invite
you
up
to
say
a
few
words
thanks
for.
F
Being
here,
of
course,
yeah
thank
you
for
having
us.
My
name
is
Finley
I'm,
really
glad
to
be
here
and
be
able
to
give
my
opinion
feel
like
a
lot
of
the
times
as
miners.
We're
not
there's
a
lot
of
stress,
put
on
us,
of
course,
about
climate
change,
because
this
is
a
big
issue
and
it's
going
to
be
our
future
and
we
don't
really
get
much
of
a
chance
to
make
much
of
an
impact.
F
F
A
B
Us
we're
going
to
go
back
from
in
person
to
Virtual.
For
a
moment,
we
have
two
colleagues
from
the
building.
Electrification.
Institute
are
on
with
us,
Christina
Garcia
and
Katie
Campbell
Oreck,
who
have
been
working
very
closely
with
the
Burlington
electric
team
on
these
proposals
and
a
variety
of
other
work
in
the
city,
so
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
Christina
and
Katie.
Thank
you
for
being
with
us.
H
H
Today's
announcement
of
Berlin's
carbon
pollution
impact
fee
provides
a
tremendous
opportunity
for
the
community
to
experience
the
benefits
of
electrification
while
continuing
to
develop
the
local
Workforce
and
improve
public
health
and
safety.
We
are
honored
to
work
alongside
Burlington
during
during
the
development
of
this
policy,
which
demonstrates
such
leadership
in
this
space
at
Bei.
We
work
with
cities
across
the
country,
including
Boston
New,
York,
City
and
Denver,
who
are
implementing
similar
policies
to
encourage
electrification
even
in
cold
climates,
and
we
are
so
excited
to
see
Burlington
joint,
this
ambitious
cohort
of
cities.
K
I
That
a
wide
range
of
policies
and
support
programs-
the
pairing
sticks
that
folks
are
talking
about,
will
need
to
be
will
be
needed
to
strategically
Electrify
all
buildings.
This
includes
building
on
policies
for
Remington
design
past,
including
last
year's
Innovative,
renewable
heating,
ordinance
for
new
construction
and
the
rental
weatherization
ordinance
to
improve
Energy
Efficiency
for
renters.
I
I
I
B
M
M
Work
I
also
have
the
opportunity
and
the
privilege
to
work
with
communities
across
the
state
through
the
Vermont
energy
and
climate
Action
Network,
who
are
very
interested
in
and
doing
important
partnership
with
their
communities
and
I
think
very
interested
in
this
proposal
and
the
work
Happening
Here
in
Burlington
as
a
model
for
what
communities
can
and
should
be
doing
and
for
all
the
benefits
that
these
kinds
of
opportunities
can
provide.
So
I'm
really
glad
to
be
here
with
you
today.
M
One
of
the
hats,
I
wear,
is
also
a
member
of
the
Vermont
climate
Council,
which
is
charged
with
developing
a
plan
to
help
the
state
of
Vermont
meet
its
climate
pollution
reduction
requirements
and
the
partnership
of
communities,
especially
the
largest
city
in
the
state
of
Vermont,
is
really
important
to
our
progress
and
our
ability
to
do
that.
So
I
just
want
to
say
that
I'm
excited
to
be
here
to
celebrate
and
support
Burlington
the
city,
the
electric
Department,
the
leadership
you
are
taking
and
taking
responsibility
for
acting
on
the
existential
threat
of
climate
change.
M
I
applaud
your
commitment
to
Net
Zero
by
2030
and
to
actually
falling
through
with
the
kind
of
planning,
programs
and
policies
that
actually
turn
goals
into
realistic
outcomes
and
achievable
results.
So
it's
a
refreshing
in
a
world
where
we
set
a
lot
of
goals
and
we
too
often
lack
the
will
or
the
ability
to
follow
through
with
those
goals,
by
doing
what
delivering
what
we
say.
M
We're
going
to
delivering
on
so
Burlington's
burlingtonians
have
long
made
clear
and
I
hope
they
will
again,
with
a
vote
with
this
vote
on
on
town
meeting,
that
they
take
their
responsibility
to
act
on
climate
very
seriously.
They
recognize
both
the
moral
obligation
and
the
opportunity.
We
heard
a
tremendous
amount
from
previous
speakers
about
the
public
health,
economic
equity,
enhancing
benefits
of
a
proposal
like
this.
So
we
not
only
support
and
commend
Burlington's
commitment
and
leadership
in
this
Arena.
But
the
fact
is
that
the
technology
has
evolved
so
much.
M
We
have
cost-effective,
affordable,
cleaner
heating
measures,
and
this
proposal
is
going
to
help
burlingtonians,
especially
lower
income
burlingtonians,
who
can
least
afford
to
pay
more
for
their
energy
to
stay
warm,
be
able
to
access
access
those
resources,
so
I
think
it's
a
really
important
proposal,
and
we
are
very
grateful
to
be
here,
supporting
you
and
making
this
a
reality
and
demonstrating
all
the
benefits
that
it
can
afford
to
the
City
of
Burlington
burlingtonians
and
setting
an
example
for
what
we
can
do
as
a
state.
Thank
you
thank.
N
B
O
Hi,
my
name
is
Peter
Sterling
I'm,
the
executive
director
of
renewable
energy
Vermont
we're
the
trade
Association
representing
the
hundreds
of
businesses
that
work
in
the
renewable
energy
field.
Here
in
Vermont,
we
really
appreciate
mayor,
Weinberger
and
BD's
continued
pursuit
of
strategic
electrification
as
a
critical
strategy
for
combating
climate
change.
O
While
we
support
as
a
first
choice
the
installation
of
renewable
energy
systems,
we
also
recognize
the
positive
impact.
A
carbon-free
a
carbon
fee
will
have
in
Burlington
this
effort
combined
with
bed's
continued
commitment
to
maintaining
a
100
renewable
energy
portfolio
should
serve
as
a
model
in
the
fight
against
climate
change.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Peter
thanks,
Peter.
B
D
Mr
Mayor:
well
thanks
Darren,
again,
Mr
Mayor
appreciate
it
I
appreciate
everybody
being
here.
As
Darren
said,
v-perg
is
Vermont
public
interest
research
group
we're
the
largest
consumer
and
environmental
advocacy
organization
in
Vermont,
and
we
have
thousands
of
members
right
here
in
Burlington
two
years
ago.
Our
members,
staff,
volunteers
and
students
we're
glad
to
be
part
of
that
process
to
help
pass
the
ballot
questions
that
really
came
to
fruition
or
coming
fruition
in
this
plan
that
you've
been
hearing
about
today,
particularly
grateful
to
have
students
here
participating
in
this
process.
D
I
think
that
is
so
critically
important.
You
didn't
cause
the
problem
we
and
others
did
and
I
appreciate
your
being
part
of
the
solution
and
don't
stop.
You
know,
keep
the
pressure
on
every
step
of
the
way
it
is
absolutely
essential,
but
those
ballot
questions
in
two
two
years
ago
were
about
giving
Burlington
the
ability
to
better
chart
its
own
course
on
climate
action
and
climate
Justice.
Specifically,
we
supported
the
Burlington
rental,
weatherization
standards
and
primary
renewable
heating
systems
for
new
construction,
and
today,
vperperg
applauds
the
city's
continued
progress
in
this
area.
D
This
is
what
leadership
looks
like,
and
we
are
happy
to
see
it
while
we
may
be
closer
than
ever
to
having
Statewide
energy
policy
that
will
move
toward
a
heating
sector
away
from
fossil
fuels
and
toward
cleaner
heating
options
that
are
more
affordable
cities
like
Burlington,
going
further
and
faster.
This
is
absolutely
critical
to
that
process.
D
Heating
and
Cooling
buildings,
as
you
have
heard,
is
a
huge
source
of
climate
pollution
in
Vermont
and
in
Burlington,
and
far
too
many
vermonters
continue
to
struggle
to
afford
the
high
cost
of
energy
as
the
state's
largest
city
Burlington
is
playing
an
outsized
role
in
cutting
carbon
pollution.
Here
in
Vermont,
it's
great
to
see
the
city
leading
the
way
in
helping
vermonters
transition
to
Affordable
clean
alternatives
to
fossil
fuels.
So
thanks
again
for
the
leadership.
A
Well,
I
just
want
to
close
by
saying
I
really
appreciate
all
of
you
being
here
and
being
part
of
this.
You
know
this
what
we've
laid
out
today,
we
are
on
the
cusp
of
doing,
but
it's
going
to
require
a
majority
of
burlingtonians
to
support
this
action,
support
the
creation
of
this
new
fee
on
town
meeting
day
and
I
really
appreciate
you
all
being
here
to
show
the
breadth
of
the
Coalition
that
supports
this
action.
A
A
All
that
we
want
the
city,
the
Burlington
Election
Department
wants
to
work
closely
with
those
building
owners,
make
sure
they're
maximizing
those
incentives.
We
also
do
have
an
existing
policy
that
does
already
have
a
certain
amount
of
requirements
in
it
for
new
construction
regarding
primary
heating
heating
sources.
So
there
is
some
regulation,
that's
already
on
the
books
that
really
pushes
people
pushes
Builders
new
construction
in
the
direction
of
electric
heat.
A
What
is
new
and
what
you
know?
I
appreciate
the
question,
because
I
really
want
this
is
important
for
everyone
to
be
clear
on.
We
want
to
go
beyond
the
existing
policies
and
create
what
we
are
calling
a
carbon
pollution
impact
fee
to
apply
to
new
construction
in
large
buildings,
50
000
feet
or
more
that
are
going
through
at
the
time
that
they're
upgrading
their
systems,
upgrading
heating
systems,
Hot
Water,
Systems
into
government
buildings.
A
If
Tom
meeting
day,
voters
in
Burlington
support
the
creation
of
this
new
fee,
that
will
be
a
new
policy
that
comes
out
of
out
of
this
vote,
and
that
will
be
a
further
rule
essentially
in
place.
That
will
require
builders
that
fall
into
those
categories:
property
owners
that
fall
into
those
categories.
They
will
have
a
choice
at
the
time
of
when
they,
when
they're
making
a
decision,
they
can
either
put
in
place
all
renewable
Technologies,
non-fossil
fuel,
burning,
Technologies
and,
and
we
will
help
them
financially.
A
Do
that
or
if,
for
whatever
reason,
it
is
just
not
practical
or
affordable
for
the
specific
system
that
they
need
to
build
to
to
go
in
the
renewable
Direction,
the
the?
If
you
know
the
the
electric
fossil
fuel
free
direction,
we
then
there
will
be
this
one-time
upfront
fee
that
they
will
be
expected
to
pay.
A
A
Great,
the
city
will
collect
the
fees.
The
Burlington
lecture
department
will
collect
the
well
actually
I.
Guess
the
that's
why
we
have
Bill
here
Bill's
going
to
collect
the
fees
billboard
at
the
department
permitting
inspections,
and
there
are
three
potential
uses
of
those
fees
and
it
will
depend
there
will
be
some
one
option
for
some
Property
Owners
will
be
to
have
their
fee
applied
within
their
property
to
other
improvements
that
reduce
their
fossil
fuel
usage,
and
you
know
Darren.
You
could
give
an
example
of
that.
A
If,
if
they
don't
go
that
route
and
this
the
fee
is
collected
by
the
city,
then
we
will
either
use
it
to
improve
the
the
the
the
city's
vehicle.
Fleet,
we're
trying
to
Electrify
the
vehicle,
Fleet
or,
and
some
of
the
money
will
go
into
a
fund
that
will
help
low
income
burlingtonians
move
towards
electrification
themselves.
So
do
you
want
to
make
sure
that
Point's
clear
there.
B
That's
that's
accurate.
You
know
just
a
little
bit
on
your
prior
question,
so
current
policy
is
is
renewable
primary
heating
system
for
new
construction,
but
that
means
there's
a
lot
of
uses
that
are
not
covered.
Currently,
you
could
have
a
backup
fossil
fuel
system
for
heating.
You
could
have
a
fossil
fuel
water,
heating
system,
fossil
fuel,
cooking
appliances.
B
Other
appliances
could
use
fossil
fuel,
so
this
proposal
is
really
to
address
that
full
Suite
of
building
energy
use
and
go
beyond
what
we
currently
have,
which
is
just
for
the
primary
heating
system
and
and
to
give
an
example.
If
the
fee
was
used
by
an
existing
building
to
make
emission
reduction
Improvement.
B
If
they
were
to
happen,
they
could
do
things
like.
Maybe
they
would
put
in
electric
lawn
equipment
for
their
building
or
maybe
they
would
put
in
electric
vehicle
charging
stations
or
make
other
improvements
to
the
Energy
Efficiency
of
the
building.
Anything
that
would
really
reduce
fossil
fuel
use
on
site
is
something
that
I
think
we
would
be
interested
in
in
helping
to
support.
P
B
So
it's
a
great
question:
I
think
what
we're
seeing
with
a
lot
of
the
electric
Technologies,
particularly
when
we
think
about
heating,
is
it's
really
only
in
the
last
decade
that
heat
pump
technology
has
been
used
for
cold
climates
like
Vermont,
and
what
we're
seeing
is
the
cost
of
that
technology
is
becoming
more
affordable
and
there's
more
options.
So
we
have,
you
know:
mini
split
heat
pumps
that
are
going
in
a
lot
of
residential
homes
and
we
have
rooftop
variable
refrigerant
flow
heat
pumps
that
can
be
used
for
commercial
buildings.
B
B
So
I
think
the
dynamic
really
has
shifted,
and
when
we
think
about
electric
heat,
we
have
to
make
sure
we're
not
talking
about
the
old
resistance
electric
heat
that
was
in
buildings
in
the
70s
and
80s
and
was
not
as
efficient
as
heat
pump
technology,
because
that
would
be
expensive
to
operate.
So
what
we're
talking
about
is
really
the
newer,
more
efficient
cold
climate
heat
pump,
Technologies.
B
B
What
the
fossil
fuel
system
cost
is
relative
to
heat
pump
systems,
geothermal
systems
both
to
operate
and
to
install
and
I
think
what
we're
seeing
is
is
really
that
there
is
a
cost,
competitive
approach
and
really
new
construction
is
a
great
opportunity
because,
again
you're
putting
in
a
new
building
you're
connecting
to
new
systems.
That's
a
really
important
decision,
because
you're
making
a
20
to
25
year
decision
right,
then
what
kind
of
system
are
you
going
to
have?
B
Is
it
going
to
be
using
fossil
fuels
or
is
it
going
to
be
renewable
and
I?
Think
we
need
to
make
sure
that
as
many
buildings
that
are
going
in
are
using
renewable
as
possible,
because
we
have
a
vicious
2030
goal,
we
can't
reach
it
if
buildings
are
continuing
to
add
fossil
fuel
systems.
That's
part
of
the
the
policy
approach.
Here's
here's!
One
of
the
slides,
for
example,.
A
A
You
know
you
had
to
be
willing
to
pay
a
very
substantial
premium
in
order
to
go
with
an
electric
vehicle,
as
the
last
press
conference
showed
we're
now
in
a
situation
where
you
can
get
a
new
car
with
all
the
incentives
that
are
involved,
you
can
get.
You
know
a
brand
new
Chevy
bolt
for
you
know
if
you're
living
in
Burlington
and
using
all
the
extenders
available
to
you
right
now
with
the
way
the
regulations
are
right.
A
Now
you
can
get
a
car
for
fifteen
thousand
dollars
the
these
kind
of
price
shifts
and
and
changes
in
public
policy
that
it
changed.
The
cost
to
the
end
user
are
are
happening
all
the
time,
they're
moving
very
quickly,
they're
changing
frequently,
and
you
know,
to
take
another
example,
you
look
at
the
cost
of
solar
10
years
ago.
There's
been
a
90
reduction
in
the
cost
of
solar
over
just
a
decade,
something
like
99.
A
If
you
go
back
a
few
more
decades
since
then
so
I,
one
of
the
things
I
like
about
this
new
policy
I
think
is
important
about
the
policy.
Is
it
ensures
that
as
Builders
of
new
construction,
large
building
owners,
you
know
in
general
people
developers
Builders,
who
have
some
capacity
and
some
sophistication
and
financial
analysis
it
ensures
that
they
are
stopping
analyzing?
A
What
the
costs
of
the
Technologies
are
today
to
Electrify
and
I
think
in
many
cases
people
are
going
to
be
surprised
by
how
competitive
it
is
the
the
fee
kind
of
Demands
that
people
take,
that
analysis.
Take
that
step
and
check
it
out
in
the
there
are
still
situations
where
electric
Technologies
are
a
lot
more
expensive
and
in
those
situations
which
are
getting
less
and
less
all
the
time,
but
in
those
situations
when
it
one
another
thing
that
I
like
and
I
think
is
important
about
this
policy.
Is
it
it
has
flexibility
in
it.
A
It
says:
okay
in
those
situations
where
it
really
is
dramatically
more
expensive
to
use
electric
technology.
You
can
use
the
conventional
system
and
pay
a
modest
fee
to
do
that
and
that
fee
will
be
used
to
have
other
environmental
benefits
so
I,
you
know
I
think
this
is.
There
are
places
that
have
just
gone
and
sort
of
banned,
fossil
fuel
infrastructure
outright.
I
actually
think
this
is
a
more
pragmatic
way
to
move
forward
on
climate
policy
than
some
of
those
other
extreme
policies.
D
P
B
B
You
know
not
a
good
example
where,
where
the
technology
wasn't
there
and
where
somebody
chooses
to
pay
the
fee,
but
it's
going
to
apply
a
new
construction
to
all
the
systems,
so
it
may
be
that
you,
you
are
able
to
do
it
for
your
heating
system,
but
maybe
you're
not
able
to
do
it
for
an
appliance,
and
so
you
could
pay
the
fee
just
on
that
portion
of
the
you
know
of
the
building.
That's
using
the
fossil
fuel,
just
that
system
and
the
rest
of
the
systems
could
be
mitigated.
B
So
you
have
every
incentive
in
every
decision,
essentially
to
go
with
renewable
if
you're
able
to
and
every
economic
incentive
to
go
renewable
and
then,
if
you
find
a
scenario
where
it
doesn't
make
sense,
then
you
have
the
ability,
as
the
mayor
just
laid
out,
to
pay
the
fee
and
go
with
a
conventional
system.
But
the
idea
is:
it's
very
much
applies
to
every
kind
of
decision
and
within
the
building.
It's
not
a
All
or
Nothing
proposition.
L
My
name
is
Consulting
and
an
enthusiastic
cool
attendant,
so
I've
been
living
in
this
Net
Zero
environment,
and
it's
incredible
I'd
like
to
understand
where
Burlington
fits
in
the
spectrum
of
this
type
of
initiative.
Dei
mentioned
Boston
and
Denver.
So
who
have
you
we're
arguing
that
Matrix
and
who
do
you
use
or
what
cities
do
you
use
as
a
model?
And
who
do
you
see
as
being
a
mentoring
entity
in
the
future.
K
H
Sure
yeah
I
mentioned
bi
currently
works
with
12
cities
across
the
Carnegie
tree,
but
I
would
say
that
you
know
Burlington
is
in
our.
You
know,
ambitious
kind
of
leading
cohort
that
are
tackling
policies
for
existing
buildings.
A
lot
of
our
cities
have
already
passed
policies
and
new
construction
because,
as
it's
been
mentioned,
we
have
found
that
building
all
electric
is
is
cost
comparable
to
the
building
with
conventional
and
so
now
they're.
Q
I
You
I
think
Christina
answered
that.
Well,
I'll
just
add
you
know,
part
of
Mia's
role
in
Burlington
is
to
make
sure
that
we're
pulling
Lessons
Learned
From
across
cities,
so
we
bring
in
tens
of
things
like
Community
engagement
and
how
to
equitably,
spend
the
funds
once
Burlington
has
funds
from
the.
N
I
Are
true
as
good
practices
across
all
cities,
but
then
this
policy,
definitely
we
tailored
it
to
the
the
local
context
of
Burlington
and
what
makes
sense
for
Burlington
buildings,
your
climate
and
what
we
heard
from
stakeholders.
So
that's
why
this
is
pretty
unique,
even
though
it's
kind
of
in
the
same
basket
as
other
cities
approaches.
L
I
love
about
Vermont
and
and
Burlington
is
that
the
culture
Vermont
has
some
ability
to
move
faster
than
maybe
other
states.
So
things
like
green
up
day
and
billboard
and
farm
to
table
has
really
take
take
through
really
organically
here
in
Vermont
and
I.
Think
one
of
our
strengths
as
a
culture
that
we're
able
to
move
through
on
these
initiatives
and
because
we're
small
I
think
that
that
helps
us,
but
I
think
it's
also
the
culture
of
Vermont.
It's
one
of
our
marketable
culture
and.
A
The
culture
of
Burlington-
and
we
totally
agree-
we
see
it
that
way.
We
see
this
electrification
effort.
The
drive
to
get
to
Net
Zero
is
following
in
decades
of
leadership
that
the
City
of
Burlington,
the
Burlington
electric
department,
has
shown
first
weatherizing,
then
moving
towards
Renewables
we're
the
first
city
in
the
country
to
Source
100
of
our
electricity
from
renewable
sources
in
2014,
and
this
is
sort
of
the
third
big
chapter
in
that
and
it's
it's.
It's
very
I,
think
it's
a
great
part
of
the
Burlington
story
and
I
think.
A
F
I
mean
I've
I
learned
a
lot.
Obviously
from
that
program
it's
really
unique
experience
to
learn
about
the
city.
Well
by
being
in
the
city,
I
think
one
of
the
biggest
things
I've
learned,
I
didn't
really
know
anything
about
Burlington
electric
at
all,
I
just
assumed
it
was
like
everywhere
else
in
the
country,
so
yeah,
I,
I,
guess
one
of
the
big
things
I've
learned
is
that
all
of
our
electric
is
sourced
responsibly
and
sustainably
and
that
there
are
I
guess.
F
G
What
I've
learned
is
just
like
how
important
it
is
to
when
trying
to
solve
big
problems,
not
shy
away
from
working
with
each
other
I
think
people's
opinions
and
versatility
is
a
great
opportunity
and
it's
really
important
to
rely
on
each
other
and
I.
Think
that
that's
like
something
we
should
use
in
when,
like
thinking
about
combating
climate
changes,
that
we
can't
work
alone,
we
have
to
work
together
and
I
think
that
they
really
taught
me
that
well.
N
G
That's
because
it's
a
really
it's
big,
it's
really
big
and
it's
really
scary
and
I
think
it's
hard
to
not
just
put
it
aside
and
be
like
well,
that's
a
different
issue
and
like
not
just
kind
of
give
up,
but
I,
think
there's
hope
and
I.
Think
relying
on
Hope
is
really
important
and
knowing
that
it's
a
really
really
strong
emotion.
N
I
definitely
agree
with
Finley
and
chanoa
and
I'd
also
like
to
bring
up
that.
Like
someone
said
like
it,
isn't
our
fault
that,
like
the
climate
is
like
this,
but
it
will
be
in
the
future
and
I
think
we
have
to
continue
to
take
responsibility
for
all
that
we
do
to
affect
the
climate
and
also
take
accountability
to
change.
Yeah.
A
Awesome
well
said
guys:
the
collagen
Lake,
sorry,
the
city
and
Lake
semester
program
is
really
a
great
Burlington,
High
School
class.
It's
I
I
personally
haven't
got
to
meet
with
you
guys
before
this,
but
many
other
semesters
I
have
had
a
chance
to
sit
down
with
other
students
that
have
come
through
the
program.
I
know
you
guys
it's
great
to
hear
you're
working
with
Jen
green.
We
really
try
to
work
closely
with
the
program
for
exactly
this
reason.
A
A
A
B
So
far,
we
expect
to
be
able
to
report
2022
sometime
in
April,
and
we
work
with
synapse,
which
is
the
partner
organization
that
helped
us
put
the
roadmap
together,
what
we
have
so
far
relative
to
2018
when
we're
looking
at
thermal
fossil
fuel
use
and
ground
transportation,
which
are
the
two
sectors
that
we
are
tracking
and
are
the
bulk
of
the
city's
emissions
and
really
the
two
largest
sources
in
the
state
as
well.
Is
we
have
about
12
and
a
half
percent
reduction
in
2021
relative
to
2018?
B
I
was
actually
a
little
bit
more
in
2020,
due
to
the
pandemic
reducing
vehicle
miles
traveled,
we
saw
a
mild
Rebound
in
Burlington,
not
as
big
a
rebound
as
we
saw
in
the
rest
of
the
country,
so
we're
12
and
a
half
percent
down
relative
to
2018,
which
is
good
news
in
any
scenario,
and
yet
still
not
as
much
to
be
on
the
path
to
Net
Zero
as
we
need.
So
one
of
the
things
that
having
a
net
zero
2030
gold
does
is
focuses
your
mind
on
putting
everything
on
the
table.
B
The
incentives,
the
policies
that
we've
been
talking
about
here
and
the
one
piece
I
would
mention-
is
a
lot
of
the
policies
that
were
implemented
already.
The
rental
weatherization
standards,
the
renewable
heating
ordinance.
Those
are
just
beginning
to
have
an
impact
on
our
emissions
data,
because
they've
just
begun
to
be
implemented.
So
we
hope
to
see
those
have
an
impact
in
the
next
several
years.
This
set
of
policies
would
also
have
a
significant
impact
over
you
know,
kind
of
the
middle
part
of
the
decade.
B
As
we
see
more
new
construction
come
on,
we
see
some
buildings
go
through
the
permitting
process.
I
Our
rough
rough
estimate
is
that
Burlington
Electric's
incentives
can
do
about
25
percent
of
the
work
that
we
need
to
get
to
Net
Zero
2030..
So
policies
like
this
projects,
like
the
district
energy
project
and
other
big
initiatives,
are
going
to
have
to
help
fill
the
Gap,
along
with
support
from
the
state
and
federal
government.
J
B
So
I
would
say
that
that's
a
very
incomplete
picture
when
we
come
to
McNeil,
because
with
biomass
or
with
wood
chips,
the
accounting
can't
just
be
what's
going
up
in
terms
of
the
stock.
We
have
to
look
at
the
whole
life
cycle
and
the
difference
for
us
between
fossil
fuels
and
wood,
particularly
local
wood
like
we
have
with
McNeil,
is
with
local
wood.
You
can
manage
Forest
sustainably,
you
can
regrow
trees,
you
can
re-sequester
carbon
and
the
data
we
have
for
Burlington.
B
Electric
suggests
that
in
the
areas
where
we
harvest
in
Vermont
and
New
York
since
2003
we've
been
adding
net
tree
carbon,
so
we're
adding
sequestration
not
losing
sequestration
with
fossil
fuels.
You're
taking
carbon,
that's
been
stored,
geologically
for
millions
of
years,
putting
it
in
the
atmosphere
with
no
plan
to
ever
re-sequester.
It
there's
no
commercial
carbon
capture
and
sequestration
technology
that
I'm
aware
of
for
coal
plants
or
gas
plants
or
oil.
With
with
wood
chips.
B
We
have
the
opportunity
if
we
are
sustainable
and
we
have
four
Foresters
at
McNeil
that
work
on
this
every
day
to
make
sure
that
we're
managing
our
property
these
sustainably.
We
can
have
a
life
cycle
that
is
beneficial
and
I,
think
that's
a
critical
piece
and
for
the
state
of
Vermont,
looking
at
modern
wood,
Advanced
wood
heating,
which
can
be
very
efficient,
is
an
option
for
a
number
of
households
in
terms
of
getting
off
of
fossil
fuels,
I
think
in
Burlington
we
have
very
very
little
in
the
way
of
wood
heating
for
the
residential
scale.
B
I
think
most
households
are
on
natural
gas
or
looking
at
heat
pumps.
So
we
don't
really
have
a
lot
of
it
here.
We
don't
necessarily
expect
to
have
a
lot
of
wood
Heating
in
Burlington,
but
it
is
an
option
among
many
options
for
buildings
to
look
at
and
that's
part
of
the
policy
is
to
make
sure
if
it's
renewable,
we
can
include
it
in
the
policy
I
contact.
You
can.
B
I
think
I've
already
shared
it
with
you,
but
it's
in
our
it's
publicly
available.
It's
in
our
IRP
from
2020.
If
you
go
to
the
Burlington
electric
website,
go
to
the
forms
and
reports,
Page
look
at
our
2020
integrated
resource
plan.
There
is
an
appendices
and
on
page
88
is
data
from
the
Innovative
natural
resource
solutions
group,
which
suggests
that
since
2003
in
the
forests
in
New
York
and
Vermont,
we
have
been
adding
net
tree
carbon.
That's
a
third
party
analysis.
A
I
am
I
am
hopeful.
The
Burlington
voters
have
already
weighed
in
on
this
concept
once
and
approximately
65
percent
of
Voters
voted.
Yes,
once
there
was,
and-
and
we
had
a
lot
of
discussion
in
the
lead-up
to
that
vote-
that
we
were
likely
to
take
the
policy
in
this
direction.
So
this
isn't
a
wholly
new
conversation
this.
A
What
is
different
now
is
that
we've
worked
out
the
details
of
how
how
the
policy
is
going
to
work,
and,
but
you
know,
Burlington,
voters
again
and
again
have
shown
the
sport
that
friendly
Motors
again
again
have
said
they
want
us
moving
aggressively
in
this
direction.
A
number
of
ways,
the
most
recent
bowel
initiative
on
this
was
just
just
a
year
ago,
right
there
and
where
we
went
for
the
Net
Zero
revenue
bonds
and
approximately
70
of
the
voters
supported
that.
A
Yeah,
it's
a
great
question
and
I
think
Bill
was
trying
to
communicate
that
to
agree
this
involves.
You
know.
We
already
have
a
robust,
permitting
system
to
agree
that
this
is
sort
of
an
additional
step
in
the
perming
system.
His
team
is
going
to
be
there
to
be
as
customer,
friendly
and
supportive
as
as
possible
in
that
part
of
it.
A
At
this
point
you
know
we
I
I,
don't
think
we
are
seeing
real
Workforce
shortages.
You
know
we,
we
had
a
different
policy,
let's
say
with
the
we
have
a
requirement
that
existing
buildings
bring
themselves
up
to
energy
code
and
there
we
had
a
real
concern
about
the
specialized
Workforce
being
there
to
do
that
kind
of
air,
sealing
and
insulation,
and
just
the
size
of
that
industry
being
able
to
meet
all
of
these
apartments
that
need
to
be
upgraded,
and
so
there
we
really
phased
in
the
policy.
A
There
is
some
aspect
of
this
policy
there's
one
specific
piece
that
gets
phased
in
because
of
our
more
because
we're
we're
looking
forward
to
the
technology
in
a
specific
area.
What
is
it
the
water
heating,
multi-family
building,
so
multi-family
hot
water
heating?
The
technology
is
not
quite
there
yet
to
be
competitive
on
the
electric
side,
so
we're
giving
that
that
doesn't
get
kick
in
for
a
couple
extra
years
beyond
that,
we
think
the
industry
can
can
work,
start
walking
with
this
policy
starting
in
24.
A
Three
categories:
all
new
buildings,
then
existing
buildings,
but
only
existing
buildings
that
are
bigger
than
50
000
square
feet,
and
in
that
with
that
category,
it's
not
that
all
existing
buildings
have
to
go
out
and
do
all
this
work
right
away.
It's
at
the
time
when
they
are
replacing
their
existing
systems.
That's
when
the
requirement
kicks
in
so
boiler
needs
to
be
replaced.
That's
when
that's
when
there
would
be,
they
would
need
to
do
analysis
of.
A
A
So
for
almost
all
the
policy
kicks
in
at
the
beginning
of
2024
there
that,
like
I,
was
just
saying
a
moment
ago
multi-family,
so
you
know
apartment
buildings
with
multiple
households
living
in
apartments,
the
hot
water
system.
For
for
for
the
for
those
types
of
buildings,
the
requirement
would
not
get
start
until
2026
the
beginning
of
2026..