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From YouTube: Celebrate Life: Rod Copeland
Description
From Gary De Carolis:
Five words that describe Rod: Compassionate, optimistic, lucky, accepting, futuristic
Copeland was born in Garnett, Kansas, a small town of 3,000 people. He was the youngest of 3 children. His brother was three years older and his sister 10 years older. Copeland's parents were devoted Southern Baptists, so he was raised in that vein. He experienced a very normal childhood and adolescense, doing well in school, having many friends, and participating in sports and school activities. He went one year to a small Baptist College in Kansas before joining the Peace Corps to serve as a volunteer in Sabah, Malaysia on the island of Borneo. His Peace Corps experience dramatically changed his life. After the Peace Corps, Copeland attended a State Teacher’s College in Kansas. While there, he met his wife to be Glenna. They met working as paraprofessionals in a school for children with significant developmental disabilities. They both received degrees in special education, and Copeland went on to get a Masters Degree in School Psychology. Shortly after they were married they moved to Kansas City where the couple lived and worked in predominantly black neighborhoods. While there, Copeland entered graduate school and received his PhD in Developmental Psychology. During that period he ran research and training grants in the inner city.
Copeland left the University of Kansas for a position as an associate professor of psychology at Southwest Missouri State University. A year and a half later he was fortunate to get a position with the State of Vermont as Deputy Commissioner of the Department of Social and Rehabilitation Services. Later he took a job with the Department of Mental Health and Mental Retardation, holding various leadership positions culminating with a five year stint as the Commissioner of the Department of Developmental and Mental Health Services. Prior to his retirement in 2007 Copeland served as the Director of the HIV Aides program in the Vermont Department of Health.
For the past enjoyable 16 years of retirement Glenna and Rod have enjoyed traveling and now spend their winters in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico and their Summers in Vermont.
7/21/2023
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A
Welcome
to
another
show
of
Celebrate
life,
my
name
is
Gary
D,
Carlos
and
I'm.
Your
host,
this
show,
is
dedicated
to
the
amazing
lives
of
people
in
our
community,
and
you
know
what
we're
all
amazing
people
and
everyone
has
an
amazing
story
to
tell
over
the
years.
I've
read
too
many
obituaries
where
I
said
after
reading
it
gosh
I
wish
I
got
to
know
that
person
well.
A
This
show
is
an
attempt
to
share
with
you
community
members
who
are
very
much
alive
and
well
and
have
great
stories
to
tell
if
perchance
you
would
like
to
be
interviewed,
or
you
know,
someone
who
would
like
to
be
interviewed.
Please
send
me
an
email
at
celebratelife0747
gmail.com
or
if
you
have
a
question
for
our
guests
today
again,
send
me
an
email
at
celebratelife0747,
gmail.com
and
I'll
be
glad
to
get
it
over
to
our
guests.
B
B
No,
it's
an
interesting
history.
My
my
dad
and
mom
had
were
born
and
raised
in
Missouri
across
the
border
and
that
had
been
the
first
person
in
his
family
background
to
go
to
college
and
he
became
and
Mom
had
gone
to
college
and
they
both
became
teachers
and
then
dad
became
a.
He
got
his
Masters
in
a
school
administration,
and
so
he
was
in
a
small
town
in
Missouri
and
then
he
moved
to
Kansas
to
a
small
town
and
he
told
the
story
of
he
was.
B
He
was
a
superintendent
of
this
small
little
high
school
and
they
told
him.
This
is
the
depression
and
he
was
being
paid
a
hundred
dollars
a
month
and
they
told
him
Mr
Copeland
next
year
we're
going
to
pay
you
90.,
that's
when
he
decided
to
pull
up
roots
and
move
to
this
Garnet
Kansas
where
I
was
born
and
raised
so
wow.
B
A
A
B
B
B
B
Do
some
chores
but
I'd
leave
the
house
at
whatever
nine
or
ten
you'd
come
home,
and
you
heard
the
noon
whistle
blow
and
you
go
out
and
you'd
play
with
your
neighbors
I
had
a
couple
of
good
buddies
and
then
you'd
leave
after
lunch
and
same
thing
and
I.
Remember
some
really
fun
experiences
where
just
just
my
buddy
and
I
would
just
go
out
into
the
country.
I,
don't
know
we
walked
three
or
four
miles:
we'd
go
out
and
visit.
B
A
B
Absolutely
and
my
parents
definitely
by
a
fifth
grade.
My
dad
had
me
mowing
lawns
and,
as
I
said,
my
mom
had
me
do
chores
I,
remember:
I
was
always
none
of
my
other
buddies.
You
know
I'd
go
and
meet
them
in
the
morning
and
I
I
finally
asked
some.
You
know
them
well.
Does
your
mom
make
you
do
things
before
you
come
back
into
the
trash
and
none
of
them
said
yes,
so
I
always
thought.
Oh
man,
I
have
a
rough
life.
B
You
know,
but
but
Dad
was
very
much
of
a
teacher
how
to
work.
You
know.
I
had
I
had
odd
jobs,
mowing
lawns
and
then
I
picked
up
trash
at
the
local
Dairy
Queen
I
had
a
TV
Guide
route
and
and
then
in
high
school
I
worked
on
a
farm
and
so
yeah
I
I.
Definitely
that
Foundation
taught
me
how
to
live
and
work
both
yeah.
B
Went
to
school,
it
was
again
yeah.
I
guess
like
we
all
do.
Remember
our
grade
school
teachers-
and
you
know
I
just
remember,
Maybe
funny
stories
but
I
remember
in
first
grade
my
teacher
Miss
lankert
and
she
you
know
it
just
afraid
to
go
home
for
lunch.
Kids
would
find
a
lost
pen
or
pencil
or
book
and
go
up
to
the
front
of
the
class
and
and
hold
it
up.
Is
this
anybody
who's
been
throwing
I
always
remember.
I
wanted
to
do
that,
but
I
couldn't
find
anything
so
I.
B
B
Other
thing
I
remember,
which
was
sort
of
I
assume
we'll
talk
about
this,
but
I
started
me
on
my
road
to
quote
leadership
in
in
third
grade.
Don't
ask
me
why
but
the
teacher
we
wanted
to
elect
a
class
president,
and
you
know
and
I,
don't
even
remember
what
you
know
much
about
what
you
were
supposed
to
do,
but
I
was
elected
president.
A
A
B
B
You
know
being
judgmental
against
other
people,
but
they
were
definitely
believed
in
the
scriptures
and
what
the
Bible
taught
and
so
forth,
and
so
on
and
I.
Don't
know
why,
from
day
one
whenever
I
can
remember
thinking
about
the
future
I
had
this
missionary
mentality,
I
thought:
oh
I
want
to
be
like
Dr
Livingston.
You
know
and
go
be
a
like
be
a
doctor
in
Africa
and
help
people.
I
I
started
thinking
that
early
on
and
that
kind.
B
A
B
Yeah-
and
that
was
a
huge
part
of
my
life
so
well,
and
to
give
you
my
successes
and
failures.
So
yes,
I,
so
I
went
to
high
school
where
again
I
was
I
was
very
popular
and
I.
I
became
president
of
student
council
so
again
I.
The
theory
like
you
were
some
kind
of
leader
or
people
that
looked
to
you.
That
was
always
in
there,
but
so
so.
B
I
went
to
a
small
Baptist
College,
where
my
brother
and
sister
had
attended,
and
my
brother
was
a
senior
there
and
I
went
as
a
freshman
and
I
decided
to
major
in
pre-med.
So
I
could
become
this
missionary
doctor
and
but
I
had
not
taken
many
science
courses
in
high
school
and
I
always
remember
my
my
senior
year,
my
English
teacher.
You
know
she
said
Rodney
you
when
you
go
to
college
you're,
going
to
get
a
shot.
You've,
never
study
a
minute
in
your
life.
B
You
know,
you're
gonna
have
to
study,
and
so
anyway,
I
went
to
this
little
school
and
they
gave
me
tests
and
I
have
no
idea.
They
put
me
in
this
and
what
an
advanced
pre-med
group
you
know
where
we're
all
going
to
take
all
these
science
courses
and
math
courses.
Well,
guess
what
I
flunked
out,
I,
I,
I
flunked,
five
hours
of
math
and
Midway
through
that
semester,
I
knew
I
was
doing
horrible
and
I
went
to
the
chemistry
professor
and
said
this.
B
A
B
Was
the
end
of
the
semester
and
the
Peace
Corps
Falls
in
here?
One
of
the
things
I
will
talk
about
how
I've
been
so
lucky
so
my
that
year,
Kennedy
Peace
Corps
applications,
so
our
graduating
seniors
from
Global
arts
schools,
so
my
brother
and
he
came
walking
through
my
dorm
at
the
end
of
the
semester
and
he
he
said
he
said
here
Rodney.
He
said
you
know:
you're
really
messing
up
your
life
and
he
said
maybe
you
would
and
you've
always
wanted
to
be.
B
You
know,
help
people
overseas
and
take
a
look
at
this.
Well,
I
did
and
I
filled
that
out
and
sent
it
in
and
my
application
and
then
I
started.
My
second
semester
and
I
actually
did
find
my
second
semester.
Not
pre-made
I
was
just
you
know
a
regular
and
I
made
A's
and
B's,
but
and
I
also
was
a
runner.
I
had
a
track
scholarship,
so
I
always
remember
finishing
a
race
and
we
only
lived
about
25
miles.
My
hometown
was
25
miles,
so
my
dad
would
come
up
and
watched.
A
A
B
Yeah
wow,
that's
how
they
did
it
and
wow
I.
Think
back
on
that
I,
never
hesitated,
I
I,
know
I
said
wow.
Okay,
let's
do
this
and
I
know
my
friends
at
College.
They
all
thought
it
was
crazy.
They
said
what
are
you
doing?
You
know,
what
do
you
mean?
You're,
gonna,
leave
and
I
don't
know,
but
anyway,
that
that
was
yeah
I
got
into
the
Peace
Corps.
A
B
4-H,
but
in
my
application,
I
talked
about
working
on
the
farm
and
that
was
good
enough.
I
guess
so,
yeah
so
I.
The
other
interesting
thing
there
is.
They
sent
us
off
the
training
in
Hawaii,
so
I
left,
Kansas
City
and
this
another
funny
little
tidbit
I.
So
my
parents
put
me
in
my
Sunday
Best
suit
right.
A
B
Put
me
on
a
plane
in
Kansas,
City,
TWA
and
I
flew
to
Los
Angeles,
where
it
was
going
to
catch
up
with
all
the
other
volunteers
and
then
fly
to
Hawaii.
So
I
arrived
in
the
airport
and
get
off
the
plane
and
go
up
and
there's
I.
Somehow
they
gave
us
instructions
and
I
see
all
these
kids
and
Bermuda
shorts
and
t-shirts
and.
B
A
B
B
B
It
was,
it
was
brutal,
people
were
getting
deselected
and
it's
interesting
on
this
religious
thing.
They
called
me
at
once
and
well,
that's
the
other
ironic
thing:
I'm
I'm
a
psychologist.
Now
they
came
on,
but
so
these
five
psychologists
they
were
loaded
with
a
psychiatrists
and
psychologists
training.
You
know
you
know,
and
so
they
these
these
they're,
all
men
of
course,
and
so
they
they
said
we're
a
little
bit
worried
about
your
religious
background
and
you're,
not
going
anywhere
to
save
souls
and
convert
people.
Are
you
and
I
assured
them?
A
B
A
A
B
A
A
B
B
Was
amazing
yeah
two
years
and
we
went
there
as
I
said,
to
start
4-H
clubs
and
they
sent
three
of
us
in
a
group
went
to
Sarawak,
which
is
another
British
colony,
and
three
of
us
went
to
British
North
Borneo
and
they
sent
the
three
of
us
up
to
a
village
up
in
the
mountains.
Where
you
know
you
had
you
indigenous
people,
wonderful
indigenous
people,
you
know
native
to
Borneo,
and
they
yes,
they'd
been
previous
Headhunters,
their
culture.
B
You
know
years
and
years
and
years
before,
but
they
were
wonderful
people,
but
we
essentially
bombed
out
on
trying
to
start
for
races.
I
mean
that
no
one
even
knew
what
we
were
talking
about
and
and
the
other
two
guys
I
was
with
they
really
weren't
working
too
hard,
and
so
I
went
down
to
the
head
office
and
said
I'd
like
to
is
there
any
chance?
I
could
go
up
on
my
own
and
do
something
else,
and
they
it
just
turns
out.
They
said.
B
Oh
we've
been
wanting
to
send
someone
to
this
other
area
and
do
community
development
in
agriculture
and
the
British
government
had
programs
where
they
were
trying
to
encourage
the
indigenous
folks
to
get
involved
in
rubber
tree
farming
and
pineapples
and
bananas,
and
so
they
had
these
pamphlets.
That
would
tell
you
what
they,
what
the
villagers
needed
to
do
in
The
Villages
were
supposed
to
read
those
which
they
couldn't
and
you
know,
prepare
their
land
and
then
the
government
would
give
them
seedlings
and
so
forth.
B
So
I
went
out
and
I
had
a
wonderful
experience
in
this
Village
area.
Where
I
worked
in
six
different
Villages
and
one
chief
of
a
wrong
tour,
they
call
them
really
took
me
under
his
wing
and
was
a
mentor
there
and
I
ended
up
getting
I
ended
up
in
125
Acres
of
rubber
seedlings
planted
I
mean
through
you
know
the
individual
Villages
and
a
lot
I
have
in
many
banana
and
pineapple
plantings.
So
yeah
right
and
I
really
enjoyed
that
year
and
a
half
I
had
was
those
folks.
B
That
was
interesting
in
Peace
Corps
training
we
spent
three
hours
a
day,
studying
Malayan
or
melee
Malayan
yeah
from
the
country
of
Malaysia
and
three
hours,
two
hours
in
the
morning
and
then
an
hour
in
the
evening,
and
that
was
a
you
know:
brutal
training
and
I
it.
This
is
interesting,
I
was
horrible
I,
you
know,
I
did
I
I
I,
remember
for
the
final
exam,
I
tried
to
just
memorize
two
sentences.
B
A
B
I,
remember
particularly
a
couple
of
volunteers
that
had
done
really
well
and
the
formal
training
but
hadn't
gone
beyond
that
anyway,
see
I
became
pretty
fluent
in
in
Milan
and
and
and
communicated.
You
know
quite
well
and
interestingly,
it
was
a
market
Malay,
because
the
this
they
do,
some
people
that
I
work
with
had
their
own
dialect
and
then
there
were
other
tribes
nearby,
the
Ebon
that
had
other
dialects.
So
there
in
that
area
they
all
they
spoke
Malayan
to
communicate
with
each
other.
But
it
wasn't.
B
A
A
B
In
particular,
these
people
again
were
just
lovely,
loving
people
and
followed
the
Golden
Rule,
and
they
were
kind
and
respectful
and
on
and
on
and
on
that
all
these
tributes
and
and
yet
I
would
see
these
missionaries
coming
in
and
telling
them
they
were
going
to
hell
and
I.
Just
you
know:
Disturbed
me
that
yeah
so
I
meant,
but
well.
The
main
thing
I
remember
is
coming
home
and
I
I
went
back
to
my
hometown.
Garnet
to
my
parents,
I
was
you
know:
I
was
only
20
years.
B
A
B
That
point
where
I
said:
I'm
not
going
to
church
with
you,
I
I,
don't
believe
in
this
anymore,
but
I
went
to
church
and
I'll,
never
forget
running
into
The,
Minister's
Wife
and
she
started
talking
about
these.
You
know
these.
The
people
I
had
worked
with
and
going
to
hell
and
I
said
how.
How
can
you,
possibly
even
you
know,
believe.
B
A
B
B
So
I
just
happened
to
hear
about
a
a
place
that
a
group
of
parents
had
started
this
their
own
school
for
children
with
mental
disabilities.
So
back
then
children
was
mental
retardation
because
their
children
were
not
allowed
to
go
to
the
public
school.
You
know
it
was
an
arc
Association
starting
citizens.
They
started
their
own
School
in
this
town
and
they
were
looking
for
volunteers
to
work
and
I.
B
He
would
hire
college
students
to
teach
all
the
classes,
and
you
know
paraprofessionals,
we
would
he
would
hire
one
person
to
teach
in
the
morning
college
student
and
other
college
student
to
teach
in
the
afternoon.
Well
so
I
signed
up
to
do
that
and
I
was
in
the
morning
and
so
I
was
going
to
meet
my
afternoon
partner
and
lo
and
behold,
this
woman
walks
in
and
it's
my
future
wife.
It
was
going
to
she.
She
did
the
same
thing.
Volunteered
to
cover.
A
B
A
B
A
B
A
A
B
Always
his
problems,
so
I
thought
well
I'm
going
to
call
the
local
doctor
he'll.
Give
me
some
ideas
on
how
to
work
with
Jimmy
I'll.
Never
forget
this
I
called
this
doctor
and
he
said
oh
Jimmy.
He
just
really
should
be
sitting
at
home
watching
television
wow.
Yes,
exactly
and
I
thought
you
got
to
be
kidding
me
so
that
caused
me
to
decide
to
get
my
masters
in
school
psychology,
because
I
know
that
I
knew
that
they
assess
children
like
that
and
I
knew
I
would
learn
about
intelligence
and
learn
about
them.
A
B
B
B
A
B
Yeah
tell
that
story
right.
Let
me
first
tell
you
what
she
you
asked
I
know
at
some
point
about
mentors.
She
was
always
been
a
tremendous
Mentor
for
me.
So
we
finished
I
got
my
masters.
Well,
she
finished
her
bachelor's
and
I
taught
in
this
small
little
town.
I
mean
it
was
small
like
500
people
and
I
taught
one
year,
and
then
we
we
were
trying
to
decide
where
to
go.
B
Get
jobs
me
with
my
masters,
her
with
her
bachelors
and
we
looked
at
jobs
in
Iowa
and
here
and
there
and
she
got
the
idea.
Well,
let's
look
up
in
Kansas
City
in
the
inner
city.
We
both
had
a
lot
of
discussions
about
minority
groups
and
working
with
disadvantaged
folks
and
I,
don't
know
so
we
went
up
there
and
applied
for
jobs,
and
lo
and
behold
she
got
a
job
teaching
in
an
all-black.
B
Junior
high
and
I
got
a
job
as
school
psychologist
and
that
same
area
of
Kansas,
City
Kansas,
where
I
had
all
black
schools
I
had
a
lot
of
schools,
but
about
half
of
my
schools
were
all
black
and
then
the
other
half
are
mixed.
Black
and
white,
and
so
we
took
that
job
and
I
went
on
and
later
as
she
went
on
later,
to
got
her
got
her.
Masters
I
got
my
PT,
but
yes,
the
Atlantic.
Sorry
we
in
in
me
getting
my
masters.
B
B
B
When
did
when
do
you
want
to
just
jump
on
a
plane
and
just
go
someplace,
sometime
and
and
the
girls
kept
kind
of,
pushing
it
and
or
and
Bob
and
I
went
to
the
restroom
and
he
said
well,
let's
just
take
them
up
on
it:
you're
bluffing:
they
they
won't.
If
we
push
them
they'll
back
out,
so
we
went
back
yeah.
Let's
do
it
and
I.
A
B
Oh
boy,
let's
do
it
so
we
went
and
started.
We
went
back
to
our
apartment
in
the
inner
city
and
we
started
looking
for
places
to
go
and
someone
found
Atlanta.
You
know,
oh,
we
could
go
to
Atlanta
and
one
of
us
said
it
might
have
been
me.
Oh
boy
we'll
see
the
ocean
because
we
took
it
for
Atlantic
City.
So
so
we
thought
we
were
gonna
go
see
the
ocean,
oh
that'll,
be
worth
it.
B
B
B
B
Yeah,
the
when
I
was
there
in
the
inner
city
I
a
fellow
he.
He
was
a
master's
degree
working
with
kids
with
very
emotional
disturbance
in
out
of
the
same
office
where
I
was
a
school
psychologist
and
he
was
working
on
his
Doctorate
in
spatial
education
at
the
University
of
Kansas,
and
he
knew
that
I
was
interested
in
going
forward
working.
My
page,
then
he
said
well,
there's
this
research
and
training
program
right
where
you
were.
B
You
know
on
Third,
Street,
right
in
the
heart
of
inner
city
and
there's
a
fellow
named
Vance
Hall
he's
he's
I
think
he
might
be
looking
for
doctoral
students.
He
wasn't
sure
so.
I
said,
oh
great,
so
I
find
out
where
Vance
is
with
me.
Vance
had
located
himself
in
the
basement
of
a
liquor
store
right
on
third
I
mean
it
was
in
the
heart
of
the
inner
city
and
so
I
I
stumbled
in
there
and
he
I
said
I
understand
you
might
be
looking
for
doctoral
students
and
he
said
well
yeah.
B
B
He
had
done
research
with
school
principals
where
showing
that
if
they
became
a
positive
force
in
a
kid's
life
that
made
a
huge
difference
versus
being
a
disciplinarian
and
just
always
you
know,
punishing
them
for
doing
bad
things,
so
he
he
took
me
on
as
a
doctoral
student
and
sure
enough
I
got
him
connected.
I
had
been
a
school
psychologist
there
and
one
principal
in
I.
Guess
we
have
a
visitor
co-host.
B
One
principle
in
particular
was
just
an
outstanding
young.
You
know
person
that
worked
so
well
was
all
black
students,
black
parents.
He
was
in
one
of
those
chain
schools
where
he
was
about
half
white
half
black.
Those
schools
were
very.
They
had
a
lot
of
upheaval
within
the
student
body
because
of
white
black
clashes
and
so
forth.
He
was
excellent.
A
A
A
B
A
B
Do
yeah
so
Hugh
was
in
Vance,
worked
together
in
doing
some
research
and
so
forth,
and
the
way
I
got
to
Vermont
is
I.
Finished
I
stayed
at
the
University
of
Kansas
for
for
10
years,
I
I,
four
of
it
was
getting
my
PhD
and
another
six
working
there,
I
I
got
I,
got
some
grants
through
the
National
Institute
of
Mental
Health
into
the
Bureau
of
Education,
my
handicap,
so
I
was
there,
but
I
always
knew
I
wanted
to
get
out
and
both
Glenn
and
I
decided.
B
A
B
I
applied
for
it
and
got
the
job
and
it
turns
out
Glenn
and
I
both
hated
Springfield
Missouri,
the
school
was
mediocre,
to
say
the
least,
but
boy
the
we
were
in
the
Buckle
of
the
Bible
Belt
and
yeah.
That
element
was
not
pleasant.
The
weather
was
horrible.
It
was
so
much
further
south
than
Kansas
City
that
it
just
so
I
was
I,
had
decided
I
wanted
to
find
another.
B
Another
work
and
I
found
a
few
McKenzie,
because
I
had
gotten
to
know
him
through
working
with
Vance
and
I.
Just
wrote
him
a
letter
on
the
off
chant
I
said
you
know,
I'm
bent
I'm
here,
but
I'm
really
looking
to
relocate
and
wondering
if
you
know
of
any
jobs
that
I
might
be
interested
well
come
to
find
out.
He
had
sister
Elizabeth
cannon
with
some
of
your
listeners
will
know.
B
She
was
president
of
Trinity
College
when,
when
Dick
Snelling
got
elected
governor,
she
opposed
him
and
in
the
Snelling
manner
he
appointed
her
the
head
of
Human,
Services
and
yeah,
and
she
then
had
to
appoint
Commissioners
and
Deputy
Commissioners
and
she
appointed
Hugh
McKenzie.
As
her
assistant
deputy
secretary
of
Human
Services,
so
he
got
right
back
to
me
and
said
we
have
openings
in
the
Department
of
Mental
Health
and
the
Department
of
Social
and
Rehab
Services
for
a
Deputy
Commissioner
I
had
no
idea
what
a
Deputy
Commissioner
was.
B
A
B
A
B
This
experience,
just
at
the
right
time,
knowing
Vance
was
the
lucky
thing
and
his
connections
and
then,
when
I
got
to
Vermont,
I
I
got
to
know
the
commissioner
of
mental
health,
Richard
Searles
and
deputies
and
Commissioners
worked
a
lot
together
across
departments
and
I
worked
a
lot
with
Richard.
Well,
here's
another
example
of
total
happens,
then
so
I
don't
I
I
went
to
my
bus,
the
commissioner
of
of
SRS
and
said
I
really
want
to
step
down
as
commissioner,
and
he
had
an
opening
in
their
planning.
B
B
Anyway,
so
I
went
up
to
the
Personnel
Department
in
Montpelier
and
a
woman
named
Sarah
filbert
yeah.
She
she
was
the
head
of
personnel
for
years
and
years
and
I
worked
with
her
a
lot
because
I
deputies
do
a
lot
on
hiring
and
firing,
and
so
forth.
So
I
told
her
I
wasn't
applied
for
the
planning
director
of
SRS
and
so
I'll
go
over
there,
that
notebook
you'll
find
the
application,
so
I
went
over
and
I
filled
out
an
application
and
gave
it
to
her
and
drove
back
to
Waterbury
to
my
office.
B
For
my
period
she
called
me
she
said
she's,
a
cop
who,
what
job
do
you
think
you
applied
for
it?
I
said
well,
director
of
planning
and
SRS.
Well,
you
applied
for
director
of
planning
and
mental
health.
The
department
went
well,
I
said:
oh,
no,
no,
no,
no,
that's
the
rest!
Then
I
hung
up
I
said:
oh,
it's
open
and
it
was
with
Richard
Searles.
Oh.
A
B
So
I
called
Richard
who
I
really
liked
and
I
I
thought
he
liked
me,
and
he
said
oh
yeah,
he
said
I
opened
it
up,
but
I
never
saw
anyone.
I
really
wanted
so
I.
It's
there,
but
I
haven't
felt
and
I
told
him
about
my
mistake.
He
said:
oh,
my
gosh.
Well,
let's
go
have
a
beer,
so
we
went
and
had
a
beer
and
he
hired
me
wow
and
so
the
rest.
So
that
changed
my
life
again
because.
A
B
A
B
As
I
have
already
mentioned,
Glenna
my
wife
at
56
years
has
truly
been
a
tremendous
Mentor.
You
know
again,
she
directed
she
causes
they
end
up
in
Kansas,
City
she's,
always
giving
me
good
advice,
you
know,
and
when
I'm
pondering
and
wondering
about
things
and
she's,
just
you
know
tremendously
important,
and
then
we
have
an
only
child
Elizabeth
and
she
now
has
two
kids.
B
So
we
have
two
grandchildren
which
are
just
adorable
one
Dylan's,
four
and
Phoebe's,
going
on
too
I
mean
she's
a
year
and
three
quarters
or
something
so
just
you
know
from
my
story
that
I've
been
talking
about
family
is
everything
family.
For
me,
you
know
yeah.
No
again,
that's
that's.
Why
I
I
just
Ponder
all
these
folks,
who
don't
have
that
and
have
never
had
that?
And
yet
you
know,
do
wonderful
things
and
have
Vibes
and
I.
You
know
I!
Guess
we
all
pick
ourselves
up.
No.
B
I
again,
exp
yeah
experiences
that
I,
you
know
thinking
back
on
a
Ponder.
The
first
one
was
when
I
was
a
graduate
student
there
in
Kansas
City
to
the
University
of
Kansas
I
I
had
I
had
written
a
grant
on
training
paraprofessionals
in
the
schools
to
help.
You
know,
kids,
with
both
troubled
kids
and
kids
with
learning,
but
so
the
Bureau
of
the
educationally
handicapped
came
to
visit
in
regard
to
that
Grant
and
others,
and
then
shortly
after
that
visit,
they
invited
me
to
go.
B
They
invited
me
to
be
a
reviewer
of
Grants
as
a
graduate
student,
and
so
in
that
and
I
said,
of
course,
and
so
I
you
would
get.
They
were
I,
guess
I'm,
trying
to
remember.
I
had
about
10
or
15
grants
that
I
had
to
review
in
detail
and
I
think
there
were
30
or
40
in
total
and
there
was
a
review
team.
So
we
all
gathered
and
worked
into
DC
but
being
selected
to
do
that.
B
As
a
graduate
student
was
an
honor
of
me
because
we
go
to,
we
go
to
CC
and
they're
all
phds
and
the
very
first
grant
to
be
reviewed
was
one
that
I
had
reviewed
and
they
asked
me
to
go
first
to
get
my
detailed
analysis:
oh
I'm,
sorry,
no,
they
asked
I
went
second,
they
asked
my
other
the
other
reviewer
to
go
first.
Well,
it
turns
out
he's
the
dean
of
some
School
of
Education
in
somewhere
in
the
East
and
I.
B
Don't
remember
now,
but
it
he
started
talking
about
this
Grand
gave
it
very
good
marks
and
I
had
flunked
it.
I
had
said
this
grant
has
big
flaws
and
shouldn't
be
funded
and
I
always
remember
saying:
oh
my
God
I
remember
just
going
into
that.
My
I
don't
know.
What's
going
to
happen
now,
but
I
gave
my
review
and
the
panel,
who
were
all
other
phds
agreed
with
me.
So
that's
wow
I.
Remember
that
and
just
quite
honored
that
that.
B
B
A
B
Be
well
let
me
think
about
that.
You
know
the
the
people
that
definitely
were
mentors
that
first
job
I
had
at
Lyon
County
Mental
Health,
where
I
worked
with
kids
with
severe
disabilities
as
a
college
student,
the
director,
he
he
really
again,
he
he
tells
me
when
he
I
Glenn
and
I
taught
out
there
that
year
and
he
took
another
job,
and
so,
in
his
absence
for
the
summer,
they
were
going
to
appoint
one
of
us
students
to
be
the
acting
director
interim
director
for
the
summer.
A
B
That
that
stood
out
you
know
wow,
he
he
picked
me
yeah,
and
so
that
was
kind
of
the
beginning
of
that
feeling.
And
then,
when
I
went
on
to
you
know
graduate
school
and
Vance
was
a
very
supportive
of
me
and
I
could
tell
he
thought
I
had
you
know,
leadership,
abilities
and
so
I
don't
know
it's
always
been
having
having
that
experience
where
the
people
start.
Looking
to
you,
you
know
yes,.
A
B
To
Kansas
and
back
in
school
I
was
actually
became,
president
of
what
they
call
the
CEC
Council
for
education
or
something
I
would
yeah.
It
was
a
student
group
that,
but
I
I
would
look.
Yes,
I
would
look
toward
those,
because
I
want
to
do
that
and
and
then
in
particular
in
Vermont
I,
you
know
looked
for
those
opportunities,
I
know
so
yeah,
it's
something
that
actually
was
drawn
to
yeah
when.
A
B
I
knew
I
was
forgetting
something
when
you
asked
about
accomplishment
yeah,
absolutely
one
thing
in
particular,
which
you
played
a
role
in
we.
You
know
mental
health
systems
were
under
criticism
as
well.
They
should
be
forever
and
ever
and
there's
a
a
psychiatrist.
I
believe
you
have
a
psychiatric
e
Fuller
Tory,
which
you
may
remember,
he
led
a
group
and
they
assessed
mental
health
State
systems
all
across
the
country
and
again
lo
and
behold,
Vermont
was
picked
number
one
and
how?
B
But
with
a
c
plus,
you
know
he
was
good
at
saying.
All
systems
need
to
be
improved
and
yeah
Vermont
seems
to
be
number
one,
and
Iris
I
mean
that.
So
what
what
I
remember
is
then
we
at
some
point
after
that
we
had
a
oh
and
by
the
way
when
we
were
picked
number
one.
One
of
the
main
reasons
is
because
we
were
one
of
the
few
States
that
had
this
strong
program
going
on
in
children's
services,
but.
A
B
B
He
did
this
overall
presentation
and
he
said
you
know,
while
I've
been
here,
I've
been
asking
people
who
who's
kind
of
was
you
know
the
leader
of
you
guys
being
number
one
and
who
do
you
think
had
the
most
influence
and
I
honestly
didn't
know
if
he
was
I
didn't
know
who
he
would
say,
but
he
he
said.
Oh,
so
it's
Rod
Copeland,
you
know
and
I
always
remember
being
quite
you
know
amazed,
and
you
know
that
was
a
feeling
of
accomplishment.
Absolutely.
B
A
B
I
feel,
like
we've
talked
about
a
lot
of
things.
You
know
working
well,
I,
don't
know
if
I
say
that's
already,
not,
but
all
I
know
is
I.
I
would
say
it's
so
so
so
important
to
listen
to
other
people
that
you're
trying
to
be
involved
with
and
maybe
help
but
listen,
listen
to
their
perspective,
and
there
is
narrative,
but
I
would
say
is
a
key
thing.
Is
finding
like-minded
people.
B
I
mean
that
that's
what
gave
me
strength-
and
you
know
being
in
a
director
level
in
the
Department
of
Health-
was
very
stressful,
but
sharing
that
stress
with
other
people
is,
you
know,
is
extremely
important.
So
in
fact
one
of
the
things
Richard
Soros
advised
me
who
he
was
in.
He
was
such
an
important
Mentor,
but
by
the
way
one
of
the
things
he
advised
me
is,
you
know,
don't
be
commissioned
more
than
five
years
five
and
out
because
you
can't
be
a
great
change
agent.