►
From YouTube: Burlington Public Works Commission - 1/18/2023
Description
https://www.burlingtonvt.gov/sites/default/files/Agendas/1-18-23%20Agenda.pdf
00:00:00 Call to Order – Welcome – Chair Comments
00:03:17 Agenda
00:04:58 Public Forum
00:20:22 Consent Agenda
00:22:18 194 Redrock Dr – Appeal
01:18:21 North Winooski Avenue Parking Regulatory Changes
01:46:21 Director’s Report
01:49:44 Commissioner Communications
02:08:25 Adjournment & Next Meeting Date – February 15, 2023
This video belongs to http://www.cctv.org and published with permission under Creative Commons License CCTV Center for Media & Democracy Programming is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License.
D
E
Hi,
so
if
I'm
able
to
be
promoted
to
panelists,
that
would
be
great
so
that
I
can
advise
the
board
really
get
to
that
portion
of
the
hearing.
Thanks
for
accommodating
me
participating
remotely
this
evening,
I
think
the
question
that
I
heard
was
whether
or
not
this
will
be
treated
as
a
quasi-judicial
proceeding
meeting
that
the
board
will
enter
into
a
deliberative
session
once
the
evidence
and
testimony
portion
of
the
matter
concludes
and
the
answer
to
that
would
be
yes,
so
the
board
will
take
the
matter
under
advisement
delivery
and
then
issue.
A
E
Yes,
absolutely
so
deliberative
session
is
separate,
and
apart
from
public
meetings,
since
the
commission
will
be
serving
in
its
quasi-judicial
function,
that
would
be
that
could
occur
at
a
time
to
be
set
by
the
board
outside
the
outside
of
the
bounds
of
the
public.
A
public
meeting
the
decision
itself
would
be
made
public
After
parties
were
provided
a
copy,
yes,
okay,.
B
H
I
F
C
C
B
A
A
K
K
K
So
I
know
that
people
use
C,
clip
fix
a
fair
amount,
and
so
I
know
that
the
department
has
been
informed
through
that
manner
about
something
that
is
on
East
Avenue.
It
is
a
depression
when
you're
traveling
south
right
Beyond,
where
the
stop
sign
is
at
University
Road,
and
it
is
a
depression
that
isn't
all
that
visible.
K
However,
some
cars
and
it's
inconsistent,
there
are
some
cars
and
some
some
trucks
that
hit
that
and
really
bottom
out
and
in
the
summer
there's
a
lot
of
swearing
going
on
and
in
the
winter
of
course
the
windows
are
up,
but
people
swerve
to
avoid
it
swerve
into
the
other
lane
and
I.
Don't
really
know
what
that
depression
is
about.
K
K
Labeling
things
with
this
spray
paint
to
alert
people
for
the
Department
of
Public
Works,
to
problems
on
streets,
of
course
that
wore
off
and
I
traveled
that
street
all
the
time
I
have
a
Nissan,
Rogue
and
I
don't
hit
that
depression.
So
it's
not
consistent,
but
I
thought
I
would
just
share
that
with
the
commission
and
the
department
to
see
if
somebody
could
kind
of
look
at
it
and
determine
what
is
going
on.
I
know
that
there
are
going
to
be
improvements
at
that
crosswalk,
but
I
do
know
that
it.
K
A
C
J
C
D
C
L
My
name's
Francine
Cohen-
this
is
my
husband
Steve
Bliss.
We
were
told
to
come
here
by
Phillip
Peterson.
We
have
issues
with
parking,
we
live
on,
Hoover,
Street
and
we've
lived
there.
We
moved
in
August
2019
and
we
have
a
garage
where
we
park.
One
car
and
the
driveway
is
a
little
short
well.
We've
parked
there
for
for
probably
two
years
bef
with
no
problems,
and
then
we
started
getting
tickets
and
told
that
we
can't
park.
D
L
And
I
know
that
there
is
an
ordinance
that
says
you
can't
block
the
road
but
we're
trying
to
figure
the
sidewalk,
but
we're
trying
to
figure
out
if
there's
a
way
to
come
to
some
way
that
we
could
park
there.
We
don't
block
the
sidewalk
completely
just
a
little
I
sent
pictures
to
a
few
people.
So
first
I
spoke
to
Leonard
desharme,
he's
parking
services
manager
and
he
said
he
was
unable
to
commit
to
not
ticketing
us,
since
it's
found
by
an
ordinance
and
then
what
happened
is
this
summer.
L
So
on
Hoover
Street,
it's
a
very
Steep
Street.
You
could
park
on
both
sides
of
the
street
except
during
the
winter
months,
and
then
it's
one
side
of
the
street.
It's
the
north
side
of
the
street.
We
live
on
the
south
side,
and
this
summer
there
was
a
woman
who
was
trying
to
have
a
home
birth
and
something
happened
and
they
could
the
ambulance
couldn't
get
through
and
they
had
a.
They
were
able
to
get
up
there.
L
F
L
So
so
Leonard
said
he
couldn't
help
me
and
referred
me
to
Phillip
Peterson
who's,
the
Public
Works
engineer
and
he
talked
to
other
engineers,
and
he
said
there
wasn't
anything
they
could
do
so
they
he
said
to
come
here
and
talk
to
you
guys.
So
that's
why
we're
here
and
we're
just
trying
to
I,
don't
know
who
makes
these
decisions
we,
you
know
we're
trying
not.
We
want
things
to
be
safe,
but
we
feel,
like
us,
drive
parking
in
the
driveway.
I
have
a
Prius,
it's
it's!
You
know.
L
L
C
L
F
L
Sidewalk
pretty
much
ends
so
I
asked
my
neighbors
I
sent
out
email
to
everybody
to
see.
If
anybody
objected,
nobody
seemed
to
have
any
issues.
It's
a
place
that
people
walk
because
they
go
up
to
the
Quarry
and
you
know
you've
got
they
can
walk
around.
They
can
walk
on
the
other
side
and,
quite
honestly,
a
lot
of
people
just
walk
in
the
street,
especially
throwing
parking
on
one.
L
C
F
You
need
to
know
where
to
go
yeah.
We
want
to
understand
who
who
has
the
authority
of
jurisdiction
over
this
type
of
issue,
and
if,
if
there
is
a
procedure,
what
is
the
procedure
for
requesting?
Whatever
it
is
we're
looking
for
a
waiver
a
you
know,
we
don't
even
know
for
a
legal
standpoint.
What
we're
asking
for
except
says
we'd,
like
some
clarification
on
that.
A
L
A
G
G
I
think
staff
was
referring
to
the
commission
because
we
are
enforcing
ordinance.
It
says
you
cannot
block
the
sidewalk,
and
so
any
change
in
ordinance
would
be
something
that
the
commission
or
the
city
council,
depending
on
the
section
of
ordinance,
would
need
to
vote
on.
So
I
think
we've
heard
your
input
tonight.
My
staff
will
connect
with
the
commission
chair
and
we'll
discuss
next
steps.
Great.
D
G
A
M
Hello,
everybody,
my
name
is
Chris
Hasley
I'm,
here
I'll
be
wearing
several
hats
tonight,
both
as
a
downtown
resident
as
an
NPA
member
and
as
a
member
of
the
Church
Street
Marketplace
commission.
This
is
my
third
public
meeting
of
the
day
so
make
it
through.
Okay,
I
really
wanted
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
parking
and
some
of
the
things
that
have
gone
on
in
the
downtown
as
a
downtown
resident.
We've
had
a
loading
zone
in
front
of
our
building.
M
I
live
on
College
Street
and
the
loading
zone
in
question
is
the
one
immediately
in
front
of
the
archives
bar
and
for
a
long
time.
For
the
first
few
years
they
lived
there
that
was
designated
as
a
vehicle
loading
zone
and
it
was
used
regularly
by
the
residents
of
the
building
which
I
live,
32
units
owned
by
Mr
handy
for
the
purposes
of
unloading,
groceries
and
skiing
equipment,
and
things
of
that
and
at
some
point
I
think
about
a
year
ago
that
changed
it
changed
to
a
truckloading,
Zone
and
I.
M
I
didn't
really
notice
it
at
first
and
one
of
the
parking
Service
agents.
I
believe
is
the
new
term
educated
me
about
the
fine
difference
between
a
vehicle
loading
zone
and
a
in
a
truck
loading
zone,
and
how
I
would
need
to
apply
for
a
40
permit
to
make
my
vehicle
into
a
truck
if
I
wanted
to
continue
using
it,
and
so
I
just
wanted
to
bring
that
to
the
commission's
attention,
because
downtown
is
changing
previously.
M
That
building
was
the
Free
Press
building,
it
was
a
commercial
building,
and
the
way
it
was
explained
to
me
is
that
that
it
really
was
always
designated
as
a
truckloading
Zone
and
the
signage
was
incorrect,
and
so,
when
they
put
up
the
signs
to
designate
it,
it's
a
truckloading
Zone.
Really
it
was
a
technical
correction
to
incorrect
signage
that
had
come
up.
M
So
my
reason
for
being
here
tonight
is
to
just
ask
the
commission,
if
you
guys,
would
maybe
perhaps
consider
a
change
in
the
ordinance
to
designate
that
as
a
vehicle
loading
zone
and
recognition
of
the
fact
that
we
do
have
32
residential
units
in
there.
People
need
to
use
that
for
unloading,
groceries
and
also
ski
equipment,
hiking
equipment,
things
of
that
nature.
I've
also
learned
over
time
that
when
it
comes
to
things
with
parking
and
science,
everything
is
in
the
city
ordinance.
M
Every
little
change
has
to
go
through
so
I
figured
I'd
start
here
with
you
guys
and
y'all
and
go
from
from
there.
So
that
was
the
first
issue.
The
second
issue
is,
you
know,
with
the
parking
here
putting
on
you
know
the
marketplace.
Commissioner
hat
we
got
a
lot
of
projects
coming
down
the
pike
that
are
going
to
have
an
impact
on
the
parking
downtown.
M
M
One
of
the
things
that
I
have
an
expectation
of
is
when
they
pull
up
to
the
curb
in
the
winter
months,
is
that
they're
going
to
be
able
to
actually
step
out
onto
the
sidewalk
and
while
we've
had
a
very
mild
winter
this
year,
we've
been
very
fortunate
in
that
regard.
There
have
been
storms
in
previous
Winters
where
the
media
part
of
the
sidewalk
will
be
cleared.
M
If
people
could
get
through
and
walk,
but
you
know
if
you
were
coming
into
town
to
shop
or
to
do
anything
or
even
unload
your
car
you'd
pull
up
next
to
a
meter.
To
you
know
a
two
or
three
foot
snow
bank,
which
made
it
difficult
to
get
out
of
the
car
pay.
The
meter
and
things
of
that
nature
and
what
was
particularly
concerning
is
I
noticed
that
in
the
handicap
spot
located
at
the
corner
of
Center
Street
and
College
Street.
M
And
I
had
to
see
them
get
out
of
the
van
and
actually
go
up
the
middle
of
College
Street
to
the
intersection
and
then
come
back
onto
the
sidewalk
by
way
of
the
marketplace
as
well.
So
I
think
that
this
is
probably
more
of
a
function
of
again
the
changing
nature
of
downtown
and
the
fact
that
we've
got
some
residential
units,
so
I
just
want
to
want
to
to
bring
that
up
there,
and
that's
really
all
I
wanted
to
say
tonight
on
that
regard.
M
As
far
as
the
mpa
thing
goes,
I
wasn't
planning
to
speak
on.
This
I
did
see
that
the
Winooski
Avenue
parking
regulatory
changes
on
the
agenda.
We
did
get
quite
a
bit
of
feedback
from
the
community
about
the
process
surrounding
that
decision.
That
was
made
I
think
that
that
ship
has
sailed
but
I
hope
moving
forward.
We
could
have
a.
C
A
D
A
C
A
I
I
I,
just
I'm
I,
made
a
suggestion
of
my
own
comments
to
be
edited,
but
I
did
have
some
concerns
of
some
of
the
other
content
represented
by
what
some
other
folks
had
potentially
said,
or
not
so
I'm
not
comfortable
with
the
other
content.
So
I
just
wanted
the
opportunity
to
be
able
to
not
approve
the
minutes
as
they
are,
even
though
I
do
appreciate
the
fact
that
the
my
comments
of
my
comments
have
been
corrected.
B
A
Promotion
from
commissioner
Barr
a
second
from
commissioner
Fox.
Thank
you
for
that.
Is
there
any
discussion
around
the
motion,
all
right,
all
in
favor
say:
aye
I
I
for
myself
a
post,
hi,
nay
one
opposed
all
right.
So
the
summer
minutes
passed
by
a
vote
of
five
to
one
moving
forward
to
item
five
agenda,
an
appeal
relating
to
194
Red,
Rock,
Drive
I,
said
either.
D
A
A
I
I
I
just
wanted
to
note,
based
on
our
conversation
earlier
today,
that
for
the
record,
I
had
a
similar
experience
to
the
appellants
in
the
past,
with
predecessor,
City
departments
involved
here
and
although
I
do
feel
that
I
could
provide
a
fair
and
impartial
hearing
to
avoid
even
the
appearance
of
partiality
one
way
or
the
other
I
will
not
be
participating
in
the
deliberations.
Or
decisions
in
this
hearing.
E
N
N
A
E
K
C
C
E
N
Again,
please
so
my
name
is
Bill
Ward
I'm,
the
director
of
the
permitting
and
inspections
department.
As
a
minor
piece
of
background,
the
city
for
decades
issued
zoning
And
Trades
permits
in
different
departments.
The
zoning
office
for
many
years
was
up
at
City
Hall
and
in
2019.
That
group
of
Staff
came
down
to
this
building
and
joined
became
part
of.
What's
now,
the
Department
of
Permitting
and
inspections
that
I'm
the
director
of
so
the
permits
are
issued
in
one
location
now,
but
that
was
not
the
case
at
the
time
that
these
permits
were
issued.
N
The
trades
permits
were
issued
by
the
Department
of
Public
Works
in
this
building
and
I
was
didn't
start
at
the
code
enforcement
director
into
2010..
So
there's
a
minor
variation
in
the
way
things
were
done
back
then
versus
how
they're
done
now,
but
I'm
answering
for
all
of
those
divisions.
At
this
point,
so
what
I'll
say
is
the
the
appeal
is
about
a
property
at
Red
Rocks,
condominium
unit
number
194.
The
condominium
is
part
of
a
larger
complex
and
it
was
formally
known
as
161
Austin
Drive.
N
There
were
building
permits
issued
at
this
specific
property.
In
2008
this
condominium,
but
those
projects
were
not
inspected
and
not
closed
according
to
the
instructions
that
were
given
to
the
property
owners
when
they
applied
for
the
permit,
the
properties
were
issued,
a
permit
building
permit
on
March
13th
of
2008.
N
The
project
was
for
skylights
and
four
exhaust
vents.
The
project
was
amended
a
few
days
later
on
the
28th
of
March
of
2008
to
convert
over
the
area
of
the
garage
into
a
yoga
studio.
Both
of
those
building
permits
do
state
all.
Work
performed
by
the
applicant
shall
comply
with
the
codes
and
the
ordinances
of
the
City
of
Burlington.
N
Both
permits
were
signed
by
the
property
owners
as
the
applicant.
The
city's
permit
documents
have
no
notes
from
the
inspectors
or
inspector
sign-offs
that
close
the
permit.
Those
were
included
in
your
packet,
the
permit
remained
those
both
of
those
permits
remain
open.
Today.
As
of
this
hearing,
there
was
also
an
electric
permit
that
was
issued
a
short
time
after
those
for
the
same
project
for
the
electric
work
that
was
going
to
happen
in
that
area.
N
That
permit
was
actually
issued
to
not
the
property
owner,
but
to
an
electrician
that
permit
also
is
in
your
packet
and
the
permit,
specifically
States.
All
work
performed
by
the
applicant
shall
comply
with
the
codes
and
the
ordinance
of
the
City
of
Burlington
that
permit
has
the
same
sign
off
requirement
and
call
for
inspections
that
permit
was
signed
by
the
electrician
at
40
Stone
the
permit
records
from
that
are
also
in
your
packet.
N
N
The
the
trail
stops
there
for
about
14
years,
14
years
later,
when
the
properties
called
the
department
to
get
the
permit
closed
out
from
2008
inspector
Kim
lionelli
from
our
department
went
to
the
property
on
December
14th
of
2022.
She
found
that
the
project
met
the
building
code,
with
the
exception
of
the
window
requirements
and
the
window
required
requirement
was
the
second
floor
that
this
was
for
a
second
floor
area.
N
Over
the
garage
that
was
going
to
be
habitable
space
now
habitable
space
comes
into
play
in
this,
because
it
means
something
specific:
it's
a
living
area
and
in
the
general
term,
the
habitable
space
can
be
a
bedroom.
So
that's
important
to
what
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
the
inspector
found
that
the
project
had
a
window
that
was
too
small
to
meet
the
egress
requirements
for
the
second
means
of
egress
to
be
able
to
successfully
close
the
permit
out.
N
So
from
a
code
perspective,
I
gave
you
an
overview
in
the
packet,
but,
generally
speaking,
the
reason
there's
a
second
means
of
egress
or
an
escape.
It's
somewhat
interchangeable
as
people
talk
about
it
is
that
if
the
primary
means
is
blocked
by
a
fire
or
some
other
Hazard,
there's
another
way
out
from
what
would
have
been
either
a
sleeping
area
or
people
area
where
people
may
be
gathered
or
resting.
In
this
case,
it
can't
just
be
a
normal
size
window
or
a
smaller
window.
N
It
has
to
be
big
enough
for
a
firefighter
to
be
able
to
get
in
and
get
you
out
of
there
just
in
in
a
safe
manner.
So
that's
called
an
escape
window.
The
larger
size
window
is
important
in
this.
In
this
case,
the
question
of
the
property
owner
is
the
second
floor
over
a
garage
and
there's
only
one
door
or
Stairway
to
the
exit
from
the
ground
floor
and
the
existing
window,
which
is
too
small.
N
The
property
owners
contacted
me
after
inspector
iannelli's
visit
and
they
explained
that
at
the
time
they
had
at
a
time
of
sale,
inspection
from
the
Fire
Marshal's
Office
in
December
of
2022,
and
that
report
from
the
Fire
Marshal's
Office
did
not
have
a
requirement
or
state
anything
in
writing
that
there
was
a
need
for
a
fire
escape
window.
I
read
the
report
after
they
sent
it
to
me
and
I
agree
with
them
that
it
wasn't
specifically
stated
I
called
assistant,
Fire
Marshal
Chris
Franza.
N
He
was
the
inspector
who
did
the
Fire
Marshals
report.
He
told
me
he
was
aware
of
the
open
permits
for
the
change
in
the
area
to
habitable
space,
and
he
stated
quote:
I
have
faith
that
the
permitting
system
that
he
said
he
was
aware
there
was
open
permits
for
changing
that
area
to
have
a
little
space,
and
he
said
quote:
I
have
faith
in
the
permitting
system
and
being
that
permits
were
already
open
for
changing
the
space
to
habitable
space.
I
didn't
raise
or
it
didn't
raise
any
red
flags.
N
I
have
the
full
email
from
assistant
Fire
Marshal
Franzen,
to
enter
into
the
record
if
that's
necessary,
I
also
encourage
the
property
owners
to
call
the
Fire
Marshal's
Office,
specifically
because
it
was
clear
that
they
agreed
with
the
building
official
Kim
iianelli,
who
had
required
this
secondary
means
of
Escape.
So
there
was
a
lack
of
that
item
in
the
report,
but
it
shouldn't
indicate
that
it
wasn't
a
requirement
and
it
is
Specter
inelli's,
Duty
and
obligation
to
call
that
out.
N
The
current
owners
have
been
using
this
area
as
a
yoga
room,
which
is
what
the
Fire
Marshal's
Office
saw
during
their
December
inspection.
The
building
permit
approval
of
that
area.
As
habitable
space
would
allow
the
current
and
future
owners
to
use
that
area
as
a
bedroom
or
other
living
space,
and
this
is
why
the
escape
window
is
critical.
N
The
properties
have
told
me
they
were
not
informed
of
the
need
for
an
egress
window
at
the
time
that
the
building
plan
was
reviewed
and
approved,
and
the
2008
permits
do
say
in
print
that
the
permits
need
to
meet
the
code.
So
it's
the
city's
position
that
the
property
owners
did
know.
If
they
didn't
know
what
the
code
was,
they
could
have
asked
for
City
guidance
or
sought
for
a
professional
Builders
assistance
for
guidance.
N
N
It's
if
it
were
if
we
were
to
make
an
exception,
I
believe
we
would
be
taking
on
the
responsibility
and
liability
from
that
point
forward.
If
tragedy
struck
and
anyone
is
injured
or
an
emergency
or
fire
in
this
room
above
the
garage.
This
would
include
both
the
current
and
future
owners,
their
guests
and
potential
hazards
to
any
emergency
responders.
D
E
And
then
my
next
recommendation
would
be
that
before
the
commission
turns
to
the
the
property
owner
having
an
opportunity
to
to
present
any
testimony
or
evidence
that
they
have
that
they
should
be
given
a
brief
opportunity
to
inquire
the
city
staff,
a
reasonable
number
of
questions
that
they
have.
Regarding
the
testimony
that
was
just
given.
E
If
there's
further
testimony.
That
is
to
come
from
the
inspectors
than
it
would
be
to
the
commission's
discretion
as
to
whether
they
want
to
hear
all
of
the
testimony
from
the
city
staff.
Now
give
the
property
owners
an
opportunity
to
inquire
into
the
testimony
and
then
from
there
moved
to
hearing
direct
testimony
and
evidence
from
the
property
owners.
E
A
N
E
And
just
a
quick
point
of
clarification,
I
thought
I
heard
a
reference
to
some
emails
from
the
Fire
Marshals
office
and
I
just
want
to
confirm
if
those
have
been
submitted
to
the
board.
If
the
those
have
also
been
provided
to
the
property
owner
if
they
haven't
been,
I
would
suggest
that
the
property
owner
have
a
chance
to
review
those.
N
A
E
E
O
C
O
D
O
O
O
In
preparation
for
offering
a
pond
window
up
for
sale,
then
they
contacted
Public
Works
by
phone
on
several
occasions
and
left
phone
messages
to
confirm
that
there
were
no
issues
or
outstanding
permits.
In
our
name
we
never
received
a
phone
call
back
in
July,
2022
I
went
in
person
to
City
Hall
to
inquire.
This
was
anything
outstanding
on
our
address
regards
to
the
condominium
and
a
gentleman
that
took
me
into
a
side
room
and
showed
me
a
microphy,
and
he
determined
that
there
was
nothing
for
us
to
worry
about
in.
O
O
Requested
the
fire,
inspection
and
Chris
Franzen
was
it
the
assistant,
Fire
Marshal,
and
he
was
the
person
who
came
into
our
condominium
to
inspect.
He
walked
up
the
stairs
to
the
yoga
room
and
without
prompting
he
stated
you're,
not
using
the
space
in
the
bedroom
and
therefore
you
will
not
need
to
have
an
address
window.
Those
were
his
words
and
we
did
not
say
anything
with
nutcracking
in
any
way.
So
this
was
the
first
thing
we
said
in
the
southern
states.
O
O
D
O
C
E
E
A
E
A
O
I
have
a
statement
to
make
in
response
to
the
the
you
know,
the
opening
segment,
and
that
is
Mr
Ward,
stated
that
the
email
Communications,
which
weren't
sharing
with
us
with
Chris
friends
and
indicated
that
because
he
knew
that
there
were
outstanding
permits.
This
was
the
reason
that
they
did
not
mentioned
the.
You
know
the
need
for
leaders,
but.
D
A
D
C
A
N
I
would
like
to
state
that
unequivocally
that
my
conversation
with
the
fire
marshal
did
happen.
It
happened
the
way
I
described
it.
I
did
ask
the
property
owners
to
consider
calling
the
fire
marshal
directly
and
I.
Guess
I
would
pose
that
as
a
question
that
if
they
would
just
confirm
that
I
I
encourage
them
to
call
the
fire
marshal
themselves
if
they
still
had
a
question
about
that
conversation.
O
O
A
H
N
Correct
okay,
there's
a
way
out,
which
is
the
door
yeah
stairways
and
the
second
would
be
the
window
which,
as
was
described
as
the
existing
window,
yep
and
I,
will
point
out.
If
you
look
at
that
document,
that
existing
window
that
was
submitted
in
2008,
there
aren't
any
measurements
on
there.
So
there
was
no
way
for
the
building
official
to
say
it
was
too
big
or
too
small.
It's
it
doesn't
say
anything
about
the
size
of
that
window,
so
it
would
require
an
inspection
to
confirm
that
it
meets
the
requirements.
N
A
O
O
O
Q
N
D
O
J
Well,
that
was
one
question
and
I
and
I
I
do
get
the
idea
that
sometimes
things,
especially
if,
if
you're
a
regular
public
person,
you
don't
always
see
all
these
things,
but
requirements
codes,
everything,
but
when
it
falls
to
safety,
I
have
to
say
that
it
really
does
mean
that
something
has
to
be
done
to
change
it,
whether
it
can
be
restricting
that
it
can
never
be
a
bedroom.
I,
don't
know
if
that
can
even
be
done,
that
it
always
has
to
be
something
less
than
a
bedroom.
Or
is
that
something
that's
possible?
N
N
J
J
O
F
R
B
O
C
R
O
R
And
just
for
clarification
for
everybody,
it's
not
contingent
on
being
a
bedroom,
it's
contingent
on
being
a
livable
space,
so
a
finished
basement
requires
a
second
meeting
of
Escape.
Your
your
door
out
to
your
hallway
downstairs.
That's
your
primary
means
of
egress,
your
window
or
a
door
to
the
outside
from
that
room
is
your
second
means
of
the
skating.
So
it's
two
components
you
know.
Sometimes
it
happens
with
a
living
room.
R
Most
of
the
time
a
living
room
is
situated
in
the
house
where
you
have
access
to
a
front
door
and
a
back
door
without
passing
through
any
other
lockable
doors,
but
basements
addicts,
bedrooms,
Living,
Spaces
offices
that
are
just
solely
independent
room
with
a
door.
They
require
the
second
means
of
escape
to
the
outside.
R
J
Yeah
yeah
thanks
and
yeah,
just
to
finish
it
out,
it
seems
to
me
just
to
make
it
as
simple
as
possible
that
the
the
option
here
is
to
either
put
in
the
proper
window
if
it's
going
to
be
a
livable
space
or
revert
back
to
storage
space
and
then
have
the
permit
adjusted
I
think
those
are
the
two
things
that
are
on
the
table.
Based
on
what
staff's
recommending
is
that
true?
That's.
N
P
P
P
N
In
the
simplest
terms,
I
would
say
that
zoning
tells
you
that
it
looks
nice
and
the
trades
team
tells
you
that
it's
safe,
but
they,
the
zoning
team,
is
looking
at
the
architecture
of
the
building
to
see
that
it
meets
the
design
specifications
that
are
approved
under
the
the
CDO,
the
zoning
ordinance
for
the
City
of
Burlington.
So
if
the
building
is
allowed
to
be
a
certain
height,
if
there
are
designed
to
be
certain
number
of
windows
at
specific
locations,
there
are
specific
dot
design
elements
that
they're
looking
at.
N
Not
the
sizes
of
them
for
safety
means
they
are
simply
looking
at
them
from
whether
they
are
approvable
in
their
design.
According
to
the
zoning,
the
zoning
ordinance
for
the
City
of
Burlington,
the
trades
team
follows
on
the
the
team
that
does
the
building
permits
to
confirm
that
the
windows
that
were
approved
actually
meet
the
Life
Safety
Code.
So
if
this
were
not
a
bedroom
or
a
living
area,
then
a
smaller
window
would
have
been
acceptable.
N
But
it's
it's
really
a
matter
of
two
distinct
elements.
It's
almost
like
having
an
electrician
and
a
plumber
they're
both
required
for
these
types
of
you
know
for
large
projects,
but
they're
very
different
traits.
Zoning
is
different
than
what
you
know.
The
elements
that
the
building
code
and
building
officials
look
at.
P
N
Not
the
specific
code,
the
the
code
to
direct
them
to
is
to
make
sure
that
they
comply
with
the
code
and
the
specific
elements
are
the
types
of
things
that
it's:
the
property
owners
since
a
property
owner
or
an
applicant
agrees
when
they
sign
the
permit
to
meet
the
elements
of
the
the
code.
Again,
as
I
said
in
my
opening
statement,
it's
our
position
that
if
they
don't
understand
that
what
they
just
signed
says
they
have
to
follow
NFPA
101.
N
P
Thanks
and
then
I
think
a
clarification
on
the
NFPA
code
that
I
think
their
it
supersedes
what
we
think
the
fire
marshal
says.
It
really
is
the
standard
and
it's
the
state
standard.
It's
not
there's
not
a
different
city
standard
for
fire
egress.
The
NFPA
is
the
standard
for
fire
egress.
Among
other
things,
is
that
correct.
R
An
mou
with
the
state
of
Vermont
and
we
have
the
most
robust
mou
we
have
this.
The
state
has
given
us
more
Authority
than
they've,
given
any
other
municipality,
to
perform
their
path
within
the
city
limits.
So
this
is
the
same
code
that
they
would
be
enforcing
in
Williston
or
in
Rutland
or
any
other
municipality.
This
is
not
a
quote-unquote,
a
Burlington
Coat.
R
This
is
a
state
adopted
code
inspector
ayanelli
and
myself
all
have
the
same
credentials
as
the
assistant,
Fire
Marshal
again
a
lot
a
long-standing
operating
procedure
has
been
when
they
do
time
and
sale
inspection.
If
there's
open
permits
they
get
deferred.
You
know
you
need
to
get
those
closed
out.
We
don't.
L
P
R
Correct
that
is
the
that's
the
minimum
code.
If
you
want
to
exceed
the
minimum
code,
then
you
are
well
entitled
to
do
that,
but
the
minimum
is
what
you
have
to
be
for
code
I,
believe
you
have
all
the
documents
in
front
of
you
that
give
all
the
specifications
for
what
constitute
an
escape
window
for
either
a
new
construction
or
a
replacement
style
window.
One
is
5.7.
R
A
O
A
O
Yeah,
thank
you.
You
bring
up
an
important
issue
City
that
documents
were
transferred
to
a
digital
database,
because
you
know
when
we.
This
is
all
done
on
hard
copy
on
paper
in
2008
and
again,
I
believe
it's.
You
know.
The
city
should
have
some
mechanism
to.
Let
people
know
that
have
open
permits
that
now
all
your
stuff
is
transferred
and
you
could
easily
access
on
digital
and
that
just
wasn't
the
case.
I
learned
about
the
platform
that
you
have
there
in
December
of
2022.
O
A
O
A
Okay,
thanks
and
I
guess
just
to
a
clarification
again
to
to
staff.
We've
heard
a
few
descriptions
or
potential
descriptions
used
to
describe
this
space
from
a
yoga
studio
to
a
bedroom.
To
finish
to
habitable
versus
strict
uninhabitable
space
and
I
I
got
the
inspector
biggie
clarified
that
the
requirement
is
based
on.
A
N
N
A
Yeah
I
think
that's
it.
I
mean
I
I
appreciate
checking
on
how
long
this
egress
window
requirement
has
been
in
place.
Gonna
ask
on
that
one.
We
beat
me
to
it
this
way,
nothing!
Nothing
further
from
my
ends
check
with
other
Board
of
appeal
members
here
is
there
other
questions
that
have
arisen
in
our
conversation.
C
A
E
If
there's
no
more
testimony
or
evidence
to
be
submitted
to
the
board
and
the
board
has
no
more
questions
for
either
of
the
parties,
I
would
recommend
that
the
board
enter
into
a
deliberative
session
pursuant
to
one
VSA
312
E
and
to
deliberate
on
the
matter
and
that
it
will
issue.
A
written
decision
to
the
party
is
to
be
made
available
publicly
within
a
reasonable
amount
of
time.
I
suggest
30
days,
but
leave
that
to
the
board's
discretion.
A
E
A
O
O
R
The
document
again,
Mr
Ward
director
ward,
has
submitted
that
as
evidence
it
was
signed.
There
was
two
building
permits
in
2008
that
were
signed
by
either
you
or
your
your
partner,
the
the
language
on
the
building
permit
clearly
states
by
citing
that
you
are
testifying
that
you
are
going
to
meet
the
requirements.
The
minimum
requirements
of.
R
R
R
A
G
The
opportunity
here
is
to
let
you
know
that,
as
we've
understood,
the
commission's
interest
is
to
do
a
two-step
process
under
many
important
decisions
that
the
commission
needs
to
make
that
we
wanted
to
come
to
you
and
explain
that
we
are
seeking
to
come
to
you
next
month
to
ask
your
vote
on
proposed
regulatory
changes
on
North
Winooski
Avenue.
That
would
allow
for
the
implementation
of
a
recommendation
from
the
corridor
study
to
implement
bike
Lanes
between
Union
Street
and
Riverside
Avenue
along
North
Winooski
Avenue.
G
We've
been
doing
a
number
of
things
to
mitigate
the
impact
from
the
loss
of
space
on-street
parking
spaces
on
the
east
side
of
the
street.
That
would
need
to
be
removed,
consolidating
parking
to
the
west
side
of
the
street.
Those
include
working
to
develop
off-street
public
parking
options,
a
memo
and
a
flyer
detailing
our
program
was
included
in
your
packet.
G
Q
Thank
you,
director,
Spencer
one
question:
I
did
have
about
the
city's
proposal
to
manage
the
off
street
parking
for
businesses.
It
looks
very
attractive
to
me.
I
wish
some
like
someone
would
manage
parking
for
me
and
I.
Get
80
of
the
revenue
seems
like
a
good
deal
and
I'm
just
curious.
You
know
how
staff
came
up
with
that
80
20
split
and
is
that
20
enough
to
cover
you
know
the
staff
time
that'll
it'll
take
to
manage
and
then
force
that
parking.
G
G
So
we
have
really
delved
into
kind
of
our
costs
here
and
by
not
having
to
install
meters
by
using
mobile
pay
for
these
spaces
and
having
still
the
property
owners
maintain
this
the
the
Lots.
We
believe
that
we
can
cover
our
costs
with
this
small
percentage
and
then
share
the
Lion's
Share
of
the
revenue
with
the
property
owners.
So
you
know
we
wanted
to
really
try
to
get
people's
attention.
As
the
first
time
we
went
door-to-door
with
just
a
general
shared
parking
pitch.
There
were
concerns
around
Insurance.
G
There
were
concerns
around
how
this
could
be
managed.
So
we
wanted
to
try
to
put
something
more
compelling
more
more
specif
specific
that
they
could
respond
to.
We've
started
talking
to
Property
Owners,
there's
two
Property
Owners,
we've
talked
to
to
date,
there's
many
more
that
we
need
to
discuss
this
opportunity
with.
G
The
two
to
date
have
been
wanting
to
know
more
I
think
they
both
have
varying
concerns.
We
did
confirm
with
zoning.
One
of
the
key
questions
was
would
renting
out
spaces
on
a
particular
parcel
for
people
who
were
from
an
adjacent
parcel.
Would
that
set
up
any
zoning
approvals,
but
thanks
to
recent
Council
action
on
parking
policy
reform,
no
zoning
permit
is
needed
for
this
operation,
with
one
important
caveat
that
this
has
to
be
an
ancillary
use
to
a
primary
use
on
the
property.
G
J
G
It
will
be
wherever
any
property
owner
agrees
to
open
up
their
lot
for
public
parking
at
times
for
them
that
are
off
peak.
So
at
this
point
we
don't
have
any
off
street
parking
secured.
This
is
merely
kind
of
a
template
in
which
we
hope
to
secure
support
as
we
go
door
to
door.
It's
important
note
that
none
of
the
on-street
parking
changes
south
of
Union
Street
South
of
the
feeding
chicken
that
the
cross
section
of
the
street
is
staying
the
same.
G
G
We
had
the
TDM
grant
program
that
was
offered
where
the
city
offered
opportunities
to
apply
for
Grants
totaling
up
to
fifteen
thousand
dollars.
Those
grants
were
allocated
and
distributed
early
this
year,
so
one
the
community
health
center
of
Burlington
received
a
three
thousand
dollar
Grant
to
support
in
their
work
with
katma
around
surveying
their
employees,
a
retail
establishment,
secured
funding
or
actually
separate
from
a
retail
establishment,
a
non-profit
secured
shopping
carts
that
they
are
going
to
offer
to
businesses
along
the
corridor
to
help
their
walking
customers.
G
So
each
business
kind
of
applied
for
different
things,
some
applied
for
bike
racks
that
were
providing
at
no
cost.
So
there
is
an
element
of
that.
There
will
need
to
be
ongoing
elements,
and
we
have
asked
katma
that
Champlain
area
transportation
management
association,
they've
rebranded
a
couple
of
years
ago
to
to
apply
for
funds
that
they
have
sought.
That
may
enable
us
to
provide
a
more
ongoing
TDM
approach
along
the
corridor.
P
Right
but
they're
a
great
resource
go
from
that
too
yeah
and
I
think
the
community
health
center.
Is
that,
like
an
interesting
nut
to
crack
on
kind
of
on
Riverside
and
the
parking
there
and
I
and
I
wonder
this
may
be
totally
going
off
the
rails
here.
But
you
know
how
the
community
health
center
sits
on
that.
P
P
I,
don't
know
what
the
businesses
are.
I
know
there's
like
a
mattress
place
if
you
go
down
to
the
Israel,
but
just
looking
at
some
of
the
surface
Maps
there's
there's
like
a
car
park
or
part
of
a
car
park.
That's
on
that
bottom
layer
and
there's
like
a
Rambo
Trail
but
I,
don't
know
if
you
know
investments
in
and
I
don't
know
who
owns
that
right
of
way,
all
that,
but
just
if
we're
gonna
kind
of
blow
the
doors
off
of
how
we're
thinking
about
parking.
P
P
Okay
and
then
last
thing
is
really
about
the
the
Outreach
and
engagement
piece
we've
heard
from
just
two
is
the
Outreach.
You
know,
here's
a
flyer,
you
email
me,
or
are
we
really
as
a
department
trying
to
go
door
to
door
and
meet
folks
where
they
are
and
also
recognizes
it?
Some
of
the
businesses
there
I
think
a
couple.
You
know
they
deal
with
some
vulnerable
populations
and
making
sure
that
we
are
really
meeting
them
where
they
are
as
much
as
possible.
G
Yes,
all
all
good
comments
so
to
hit
the
last
one.
First,
we
are
spending
the
time
going
door
to
door
to
have
conversations
not
to
just
drop
Flyers,
okay
and
we're
going
door
to
door
with
other
partners.
We
have
gone
with
City
councilors,
both
councilor
Bergman
as
well
as
counselor
Barlow,
have
joined
us
on
the
door-to-door
and
the
business
and
Workforce
Development
Department
in
the
city.
G
The
the
short-term
improvements
are
necessitated
by
the
timeline
for
the
paving
for
the
state's
Paving
of
the
corridor,
so
there
aren't
major
changes
in
the
corridor
other
than
the
the
lane
reassignment
as
part
of
the
project.
But
the
long-term
Corridor
study
does
talk
about
more
robust
streetscape
design.
Moving
curb
bulb
outside
intersections
those
types
of
things
as
well.
G
That's
all,
and
we
are
working
with
Community
Health
Center
of
Burlington
to
explore
off
street
parking
options.
I
want
to
just
thank
them
for
working
with
us
to
to
reach
out
to
Charlie
boys,
which
is
property
owner
to
the
east
of
them,
and
then
Queen
City
Steel
to
the
north
of
them
to
explore
options
with
those
two
Property
Owners
as
well.
They
aren't
going
to
be
easy
solutions
as
you
identified.
There
are
grade
challenges,
but
Norm's
engineering
team
has
offered
assistance
with
some
conceptual
design
planning.
G
There
was
a
survey
of
just
all
private
parking
in
in
the
area,
an
estimate
of
it.
There
are
certainly
there
are
40
spaces
that
are
going
to
be
impacted
here.
On
the
east
side.
On
this
two
block
area
we
have
secured
Burlington
Housing
Authority
has
offered
six
spaces
to
be
leased
to
the
Community
Health
Center
of
Burlington.
There
are
parking
lots
far
in
excess
of
40
additional
spaces.
G
Key
large
parking
lots
include
the
bus,
barn
development
owned
by
Champlain
Housing
Trust,
the
Vermont
legal
aid
owned
by
Champlain
Housing
Trust
294
North
Winooski,
which
is
burley
ax
and
CCTV.
They
have
a
large
parking
lot.
The
children's
space
outright
Vermont
property
has
a
decently
large
parking
space
a
lot.
Those
are
the
the
main
property
owners
that
were
reaching
out
to
at
this
time.
Okay,.
H
And
then
the
in
terms
of
timing,
I
think
it
said
that
this
was
scheduled
for
this
summer
to
be
repaved
and
restriped
is
I.
Guess
the
February
meeting
when
the
commission
is
going
to
be
discussing
these
these
changes.
Is
that
sort
of
the
last
possible
moment
or
is
there
additional
breathing
room
from
there.
I
So
I
know
this
you've.
You
just
recited
quite
a
few
of
those
very
large
parking
lots
that
are
are
available
with
lots
of
space
and
the
challenge.
I
think
you've
had
of
of
trying
to
figure
out
how
best
to
make
possible
for
those
those
spaces
of
40
spaces
to
be
somehow
made
available
for
either
of
those
choices
eight
in
and
out,
because
somebody's
going
to
a
restaurant
or
going
to
a
store
or
they're
stopping
for
a
medical
appointment.
I
And
you
answer
the
question
about
the
community
health
center,
because
I
think
their
employees
are
one
of
the
big
loads
on
the
street
and
we
changed
the
parking
on
the
east
side
of
North
Winooski
from
three
hour
parking
to
facilitate
use
of.
You
know
turnover
for
the
people
that
are
using
Pho
Hong,
the
restaurants,
and
you
know
the
laundromat
and
things
like
that
to
open
season.
I
But
one
of
the
questions
I
did
have
is
in
your
conversations
with
people,
these
private
lot
owners.
Did
you
see
any
preference
that
they
were
expressing
for
using
the
kiosk
type
method
or
permits
for
so
for
the
storage
of
cars
method
and
needing
that's
one
thing
which
should
be
a
permit
for
somebody
like
a
tag
like
we
have
in
a
residential,
but
for
the
people
that
are
going
to
the
restaurant
say
on
North
Winooski
there
a
different
need
and
a
different
technique.
I
Did
you
find
any
kind
of
sense
of
of
willingness
to
use
one
or
the
other
of
those
kind
of
things?
Because
if
you
could
get
40
cars
off
the
street
that
are
just
being
stored
there,
because
people
leave
their
car
there
to
go
skiing,
but
they
actually
work
in
town
and
they
walk
and
bike
everywhere,
or
that's
one
kind
of
way
to
deal
with
this
or.
D
G
C
G
G
C
G
I
Session
the
the
the
bigger
picture
that
needs
to
be
addressed
is
parking
management
is,
is
really
the
the
need
for
somewhere
satellite
parking
for
people
that
do
store
their
vehicles
because
I
think
years
ago
we
did
a
study
on
Buell
Street
and
there
was
like
25
percent
of
the
cars.
There's
sat
there
for
forever
and
so
I
don't
know
how
many
of
those
are
again
ones
that
are
in
the
way
that
are
really
taken
up
space
that
that
we
need
for
the
people
that
are
going
to
be
coming
and
going
through
the
day.
I
C
I
But
that's
just
me
because
of
the
meetings
that
I,
attended
and
I
also
noticed
that
it's
interesting
too,
that
one
of
the
big
concerns
is
the
employees
of
Social
Service
providers
that
are
in
the
neighborhood
and
the
reason
that
their
businesses
are.
There
is
because
that's
where
the
population
is
that
can
walk
to
them.
So
it's
so
it's
an
interesting
conundrum
that
that
that
there's
the
need
for
parking
for
people
that
are
not
living
in
the
neighborhood
that
want
to
provide
services
to
people
that
do
live
in
the
neighborhood.
I
So
as
a
person
who
lives
in
the
old
North,
End
and
and
uses
that
Corridor
and
walks
I
I.
You
know
I'd
like
to
see
the
ability
for
people
to
that.
Are
businesses
there
to
be
able
to
have
places
to
park,
but
I
also
am
a
little
bit
concerned
if
there's
a
demand
for
no
bicycle
lane,
so
that
Social
Service
Agency
staff
can
drive
in
and
park
to
do
their
their
their
good
work
in
the
community.
I
I'd
rather
be
able
to
have
a
bike
lane
for
the
people
that
live
there
and
less
traffic
and
people
be
able
to
walk
and
I
want
to
make
sure
that
that
we
have
a
way
that
people
that
need
to
work
there
recognize
that
that
the
community
needs
certain
things
and
we
do
want
to
find
a
way.
You
know.
So
it's
a
little
bit
of
an
odd
conundrum.
I
would
love
to
have
those
people
just
move
into
the
neighborhood
and
not
have
to
drive,
but
that's
not
anything
that
we
can
do
anything
about.
So
thank
you.
A
A
It's
a
recruitment
of
businesses
for
this
managed
parking
plan.
We've
got
it
in
the
pack
at
the
the
yellow
stripe
on
the
map
of
the
scope
of
the
proposed
on-street
parking
adjustments
and
if
I'm
curious,
are
you
making
the
round
sort
of
neighborhood
wide
in
adjacent
streets
or
upstream
or
out
sort
of
above
and
below
that
that
stripe
or
we
just
talk
to
people
on
the
on
the
Avenue
within
the
project
space
itself?.
G
D
A
D
M
My
takeaway
recollection,
rather
it
was
that
we
last
heard
about
this
proposal
at
the
NPA
back
in
close
to
a
year
ago.
I
think
February.
Perhaps
it's
about
a
bit,
but
the
one
of
the
solutions
proposed
was
to
use
the
additional
capacities
on
the
Lots
provided
by
the
the
private
private
property
owners.
M
Center
we
heard
from
residents,
you
know
about
the
loss
of
the
parking
there
and
how
it
would
it
would
affect
the
neighborhood
given,
given
that
there
I'm
encouraged
that
you
guys
are.
The
department
of
first
rather
is
out
trying
to
do
some
door
to
door
to
to
alleviate
this
I
know
it's
a
tough
road
to
hoe,
but
recognizing
that
this
is
going
to
be
on
the
agenda.
It
sounds
like
next
month.
I.
M
G
We
have
let
folks
know
in
our
flyering
around
the
parking
changes
about
when
the
commission
meeting
would
be
in
February.
So
they're
already
noticed
of
that,
even
before
we
have
a
draft
recommendation
that
we
will
also
circulate
to
the
neighborhood
in
the
coming
weeks.
Once
we
have
that,
based
on
the
input
we
received.
A
F
G
Great
I
just
want
to
thank
Mr,
Golding
and
and
others
on
staff
who
filled
in
during
having
vacancies
of
our
transportation
planning
team
I'm
really
excited
to
announce.
We
have
two
new
planners
who
have
now
started.
We
were
going
to
have
them
come
tonight
with
the
first
appeal.
We
didn't
know
how
long
that
was
going
to
run
so
we'll
bring
them
next
month,
but
Bike
Share
is
moving
along.
As
you
heard.
G
Last
year,
the
Bike
Share
entity
had
gone
out
of
business
that
we
were
working
with
bolt
and,
as
a
result,
we've
worked
together
with
our
regional
Partners,
puts
an
RFP
out
to
bid
thanks
to
the
leadership
of
katma,
and
the
bids
are
due
January
27th,
and
it's
important
to
note
that,
as
we
project
with
the
actions
that
need
to
be
taken,
most
actions
will
be
at
the
council
level.
Not
the
commission
level.
They'll
need
to
approve
the
mou
with
all
the
partners.
G
G
Gmt
I
outlined
the
budget
process
in
my
director's
report.
The
board
did
approve
I
believe
unanimously.
The
FY
24
budget
that
also
had
us
reinstating
fares
and
and
reducing
service
three
percent.
It
was
a
challenging
budget
to
put
together
I
think
it
was
helpful.
We
had
a
great
turnout
at
the
public
forum.
I
really
want
to
thank
staff
for
getting
the
word
out
remarkably
well,
but
we're
in
a
difficult
spot
trying
to
change
the
financing
structure
for
public
transit
in
Vermont.
G
G
Thank
you,
chair
Hogan,
had
asked
about
the
Wastewater
Plant
tertiary
treatment
pilot
that
you
all
got
to
visit
the
last
fall
and
we
hope
to
have
the
report
back
in
the
next
month
or
two
and
we'll
put
it
on
the
agenda.
The
consultant
on
that
project
is
waiting
for
one
final
company
to
report
their
numbers
in
so
that
we
can
bring
a
robust
report
to
you
all.
So
that's
the
report.
Thanks.
A
H
I
G
I
Are
there
statistics
like
publicly
available
that
are
that
tell
the
ridership
during
the
fair
free
years
like
somewhere,
that
we
could
see
because
I'm
just
curious,
whether
or
not
the
fair
free
made
a
difference
at
certain
times
of
the
day
or
or
or
at
all,
and
is
that
something
that
you
know
that
that
are
on
a
GMT
website
or
how
to?
How
would
one
find
that.
G
Yes,
ridership
overall
is
still
down
from
pre-pandemic
levels,
even
with
the
fair
free.
That
said,
we
did
get
a
good
report,
an
analysis
from
gmt's
consultant
on
the
potential
long-term
benefits
of
fairfree,
so
I'm
happy
to
share
that
they
looked
at
the
cost
per
additional
ride
of
that
subsidy
and,
interestingly,
the
estimates
were
generally
in
line
with
the
cost
per
passenger
that
exists.
Currently
it's
around
five
dollars
per
ride.
I
You
would
have
thought
that,
but
I
have
been
concerned
over
time,
and
this
is
something
that
has
nothing
to
do
with
the
fair,
free
or
not
fair
free.
It
has
to
do
with
the
fact
that
we
don't
Market
the
buses
for
people
that
have
vehicles
they
are
marketed
for
students,
they're
marketed
for
elderly
people,
they're
marketed
for
people
that
don't
own
cars
and
can't
afford
cars,
and
so
there's
a
the
the
proof
that
the
ridership
did
not
change
is
really
requires.
Some
thought.
What
what
that?
C
I
In
fact,
no
change
happened
to
get
people
on
the
bus
that
were
you
know
that
owned
vehicles
and
and
could
drive,
because
the
fair
is
free.
That's
a
bad
thing,
that's
that's
a
bad
sign,
so
we
got
to
really
do
something
and
I
don't
know
what
it
is,
but
that's
a
problem.
One
of
the
separate
question
relates
to
the
cost.
Is:
is
it
possible
for
GMT
to
have
some
smaller
vehicles
that
once
they
know
the
demand
load
at
certain
times
of
the
day,
they
could
switch
to
a
vehicle?
That's
not
as
costly.
I
I
I
really
do
but
I
feel
like
something
isn't
what
and
we
were
not.
We
didn't
take
advantage
of
the
opportunity
we
had
over
the
pandemic
with
Fair
free,
and
so
maybe
we
can
do
something
between
now
and
when
it
actually
goes
away,
because
it
sounds
like
we're
not
going
to
lose
ridership
we're
going
to
just
keep
the
same,
even
if
people
have
to
pay,
which
is
which
is
pretty
sad.
So
anyway,
that's
my
rant,
but
I
I
do
want
to
support
public
transit
and
bus
riding
and
I
think
it's.
G
The
world
has
changed
very
dramatically
during
covet,
the
biggest
hits
were
to
our
commuter
buses.
We
stood
up
commuter
buses,
we
launched
a
very
successful
service
of
link
express
all
over
State
and
it
completely
evaporated
overnight.
So
we
are
trying.
We've
got
a
great
new
general
manager,
I
think
we've
got
a
great
staff,
but
without
a
sustainable
funding
system
that
can
deliver
15-minute
headways
that
can
offer
Choice
Riders
a
real
opportunity.
I
think
we've
got
a
very
long
road,
though.
P
Furthermore,
there
were
people
who
chose
not
to
ride
the
bus
to
allow
space,
at
least
at
the
beginning,
for
those
Frontline
workers
who
needed
to
ride
the
bus.
So
it
remains
to
be
seen.
We
have
a
broken
system
on
funding
public
transit
in
the
United
States,
so
I,
don't
think
our
little
commission
can
fix
this,
but
I
just
like
I
love.
P
D
P
B
J
A
Q
Q
Q
And
lastly,
director
Spencer
I'm
super
grateful
to
hear
about
that
motion
you're
putting
forward
at
the
GMT
board
meeting
I.
Think
a
lot
of
people
feel
very
deeply
that
public
transit
is
an
important
resource.
So
thank
you
for
kind
of
being
a
leader
on
that
and
commissioner
Overby
GM,
as
director
Spencer
mentioned,
GMT
did
a
a
really
good
public
meeting
on
their
budget
and
what
it
included.
Q
A
A
That
you
know,
certainly
we
need
and
I
guess,
but
there's
one
more
point
on
that
is
to
the
extent
possible.
I
know
seems
like
folks
in
this
room
are
in
support
of
GMT.
Getting
resources.
I
think
especially
crucial
that
there's
an
enough
service
enough
quality
service
to
avoid
the
ridership
further
ridership
death
spirals
in
the
future,
because
we
don't
find
it
enough
to
have
buses
running
frequently
enough
to
have
it
be
a
usable
service
which
means
it
there's
less
bus
fans
to
be
the
advocates
for
even
more
service
the
next.
A
A
It's
going
to
work
for
even
fewer
people.
If
we
continue
to
shortchange
it,
so
we
got
to
treat
it
as
a
public
service
and
want
an
accordion
anyways.
Had
my
water
meter
replaced
recently
was
alerted
by
a
nice
letter
in
the
mail
that
it
had
not
been
transmitting
a
signal
in
a
couple
months,
but
no
props
to
the
the
team
that
came
out
and
swapped
it
I
think
the
gentleman's
name
was
was
Jacob,
courteous,
punctual
professional,
oh
yes,
nice
experience
with
the
water
Services
team
and
get
a
shiny
new
meter.
C
C
B
A
I
was
pleased
to
see
a
crew
out
salting
a
Troublesome
sidewalk
spots
on
on
Union
in
the
South
Union
in
the
city
about
204,
and
it's
a
spot
that
I
brought
up
in
this
forum
in
the
past
as
a
persistently
Troublesome
wet
spot,
where
whatever's
happening
on
that
private
residence
yeah
makes
a
mess
of
our
public
right
away
on
the
sidewalk
year
round.
It's
it's
wet
in
the
summer,
so
thick
icy
mess
in
the
winter.
A
A
mess
of
our
public
stuff
even
inadvertently,
had
a
a
good
exchange
with
staff
around
parking
ordinances
and
how
they're
represented
in
the
relative
usability
of
how
they're
represented
in
ordinance
just
to
say
challenging
every
time
this
comes
up.
I
go
if
we
have
a
proposed
change,
I
go
sort
of
looking
to
see
what's
around
in
the
vicinity
and
it
is
always
takes
me
way
longer
than
I
feel
it
should,
because
that's
it's
very
discontinuous,
there's
no
we're
talking!
King
Street,
there's
no
sort
of
intelligible
way
to
say!
Tell
me!
A
What's
going
on
in
the
area
of
King,
Street
and
you're
sort
of
scroll,
you
can
search
for
King
Street.
It
shows
up
88
times
in
that
section
right,
but
if
you're,
if
you
scroll
down
to
one
and
it's
item
300
and
that
like
Sub
sub
section
I've
lost
the
header
like
I,
don't
know
if
I'm
in
the
10
hour,
subsection
or
the
three-hour
subsection,
so
anyways
I
think
it's.
A
A
Would
save
staff
time
and
headaches
the
folks
that
are
preparing
these
changes?
In
addition
to
just
saving
me
and
my
fellow
Commissioners
headaches
when
we
go
to
look
up
and
try
to
see
what's
going
on,
but
I
imagine
like
the
that
could
be
the
underpinnings
of
some
nice
other
public
services
on
the
order
of
suppose
I'm
trying
to
get
to
this
business.
What
are
the?
What
are
the
options
in
that
vicinity?
Can
I
see
that
you
know
there's
three
three
hour
spaces
and
and
two
30-minute
spaces
around
or
like
what
are.
A
I
Well
well,
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
I
got
the
vibe
that
people
think
my
comments
about
GMT
were
critical
of
them:
okay,
because
that
was
absolutely
not
my
intent.
Okay,
good
enough,
because
I
have
been
so
impressed
with
the
punctuality,
the
buses
are
there
and
leave
right
on
the
hour
right
on
the
half
hour.
The
drivers
are
fantastic,
it
is
fantastic.
I
am
just
wanting
to
support
an
expansion
of
what
I
think
you
call
the
choice.
I
Riders
the
choice
writers
is
that
the
term
you're,
using
for
people
that
don't
require
a
bus
but
would
prefer
to
use
it
to
be
on
a
public
transportation,
so
I
absolutely
support
everything
and
I
just
want
to
be
supportive
of
expanding
the
ridership
with
Choice
those
Choice
Riders.
So
I'm
glad
to
hear
it
wasn't.
Looking
like
I
was
slamming
GMT
for
some
reason.
Okay,
because
it
was
absolutely
not
the
message
I
was
trying
to
to
to
provide
thanks.