Chittenden County, Vermont City of Burlington, 15 Mar 2023

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From YouTube: Burlington Public Works Commission - 3/15/2023

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Agenda: https://www.burlingtonvt.gov/sites/default/files/Agendas/3-15-23%20Agenda.pdf

https://linktr.ee/townmeetingtv

00:00:00 Call to Order
00:00:11 Agenda
00:00:39 Public Forum
00:01:07 Consent Agenda
00:05:21 Parking Services Enforcement
00:25:41 Parking Fine Reform
01:08:40 Main Street Great Streets Update
02:13:19 Director's Report
02:14:52 Commissioner Communications

This video belongs to http://www.cctv.org and published with permission under Creative Commons License CCTV Center for Media & Democracy Programming is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International License.

A

Good evening, everyone, my name- is Brennan Hogan, chair of the Public Works commission, calling this March meeting to order at 6. 33. Welcome. All first item on the agenda. Is the agenda itself welcome emotion? If anyone has one.

B

A

Have a motion from commissioner Barr? Thank you. We have a second from Vice Gerald Leo volko. Is there any discussion around the motion all right to vote, then all in favor, if you say aye,.

C

A

Aye aye myself, any post Jen has passed onward to public forum lighter crowd than last time. Let's maybe check on the phones, see if there's anyone interested in speaking, it's public forum online.

D

Chair Hogan I do not see anybody from the public online at this time. All.

A

Right and not seeing any in the room either we'll close public forum moving forward to number four on the agenda. The consent agenda is uh draft minutes from February's meeting and uh paperwork's regarding complete streets for Paving projects.

A

There was some um suggested edits to the minutes from last month that were circulated to the commission.

B

E

Make a motion to accept an agenda with.

B

The edits submitted.

F

You may have got that motion, commissioner bar. Thank you.

C

A

Have a second from commissioner Fox. Thank you. Any discussion.

F

G

I think we just confirmed that those are edits proposed by commissioner Overby, commissioner damiani and by staff.

A

Thank you for that any other session.

H

Can I just ask a question about the the complete streets the uh the ones on are listed for, like Clark, Street and uh there's one other one too, that or maybe will be done as if there's availability?

H

Can you explain what that would be I know I actually had somebody at the NPA meeting come to me and say what can I do it about getting Clark, Street fix and I'm like very happy to be able to send them this, but I wanted to know what that really meant might mean for them and Paving in Clark Street.

G

Sure uh we bid this year's work with a couple ad alternates uh just depending on how the bids came in uh last couple of years have been very difficult bid environment. We were exceptionally pleased this year to get three bidders uh last couple of years. We've had one better uh each year uh it was a much more competitive environment this year and, as a result, it looks like we're going to be able to add I, believe Riverside in but I'm, not sure about Clark Street.

G

Does anybody on staff know about Clark Street? You want to come up and just make sure you're on the microphone.

I

My first time on the stand, welcome sorry yeah at the moment um bubble after we pay our other streets, we will be able to pave Clark Street, but we don't want to make the promise to the public that we will be Paving it until we're sure that we've secured that thing. After all, the other work is completed. So as long as the money is available, we do plan on doing clerk for cy23, but it's contagious when.

H

Would you know that you had the money? What is there a time frame that you think it would be that they would find out if it's going to be done.

G

That's a good timeline like.

H

September August I.

I

H

Okay, I I will get I will get back to them. Yes,.

G

Great and we can certainly keep the commission informed as uh the year advances. We are pinched because the inflationary environment, because the voters approved a smaller package this year for Capital work as well last year in the 2022 town meeting day, vote 23.8 million dollar Bond. Originally we asked for 40 million and that was not approved, so uh the amount for Paving is is compressed and so we're trying to do as much as we can with that limited budget.

H

I just didn't want to promise something without being real, clear about what the situation is for them. So.

E

Thanks for that, thank you very much. Thank.

F

You right, we have a motion, that's been seconded any.

A

Other discussion around that motion. All right. Excuse me all in favor of approving the consent agenda. Please say aye.

C

A

Post all right consent again passes unanimously moving. Thank you moving forward item five Parking Services enforcements ends Burlington Parks and Recreation and Waterfront Lots. Yes,.

E

J

Oh I need to get promoted here.

J

Let me get promoted, I won't need, I will have a presentation, but um my name is Jeff Padgett I am the division director for parking and traffic and uh Cindy White said she's going to be here tonight, but don't see her I, don't know um so, basically, uh Parks and Rec and Waterfront and parking services and uh traffic group and parking facilities involved and sort of working together for the past couple years, trying to build what we're calling this One-Stop shop for parking services and one of the hiccups that we've had is that the authority that we get to and force in Lots is articulated in appendix C in our and what I call our appendix, which is all the articles arcs Authority is they have the authority to enforce in their lots and that's articulated appendix d.

J

So we want to work together with Parks. Parks wants to work.

E

J

And we want to enforce in their Lots, but because we had they had Authority in appendix D and we had Authority dependency. It was actually if we just if we just went forward with our authority to enforce it in their lots and they had it. We would have sort of a quasi-double Jeopardy situation where theoretically, two different city entities could give us two different tickets for the same violation.

J

So so Cindy went to her commission and she's, headed to the city council, she's a different process for changing her rules to take parking out of their Authority and defer that authority to us. So before city council passes that up going to you to get authority to take to to recognize Park's Lots in section 18, appendix C and then in append the event in sector 19 we are would be doing. Nothing goes with 18. what the heck we do.

J

Oh, oh, uh for the rates we referenced it because we rep, we identify the lots and we articulate the rates in our appendix C. Well, they have enforcement and rates in theirs. So what I've done so 18 now takes over their Lots 19 references, their ordinance for any rate structure. So it's all tight. uh So what I'm asking for.

G

K

J

To add the park slots to and to section 18 and then add a reference to Parks rates in section 19. and then also some house cleaning cleaning relative to the 194. Apparently.

E

Was in there, so that's a nutshell.

F

Great. Thank you for that.

A

We're back for commissioner discussion on this.

F

K

uh The only question I had was in terms of additional staffing needs because of the additional enforcement um that DPW would be taking on right.

J

So from our perspective, so we have, we have the platform, we have the infrastructure. We now have. We used to have five, what we're called parking enforcement officers. Now we have 14 positions, we have 10., we have 10 filled, Now parking, Service agents, so we have a dramatic and we could have 14. So we got four positions open, so we have a dramatic increase in enforcement capacity, but one of the items I think we talked about at the last meeting is license plate, recognition right.

J

So we're still working towards that and and a big reason we would like license plate recognition. Technology available to us is so that we can actually drive through Letty and look for people who haven't paid drive through the garages could look for people who haven't paid to dramatically streamline.

E

Our operation so we're.

J

Very conscious we.

E

Believe we have.

J

The horsepower to do it um right now, but license plate recognition, LPR OCR.

F

F

J

Corollary to that is we write ticket just like when we write a ticket in the garage that Revenue doesn't go to the garage, the 15 ticket. It goes to the parking services, which is a general fund. So when we write a ticket to bprw Lots, they won't get the 15 fine. That will come to us. So we will have some of.

K

Our traditional reference.

J

F

Very good thanks.

L

Yeah I love talking about parking, uh I guess. My first question is: what's the enforcement like now like what what does the Parks Department do and what are the rates? If, if you.

J

Have that info do not have a robust banking enforcement free sheep.

E

Let's put it that way,.

E

K

E

Taking over because they recognized they have and effective in their enforcement, they have.

J

Had a variety of.

C

Ad hoc approaches so I.

J

Can't really speak to all of it, but it was not not what.

E

They needed to be, they reckon professional.

L

Yeah, it's good to be impartial in in that respect. um I guess! My other question is in the third paragraph of the background section uh you distinguish between the traffic ticket. That would be uh the the penalty um in this case. This is a civil ticket yeah, but then you say, but this traffic ticket has more less severe legal ramifications.

L

So is it more more severe or less severe, really.

J

What what it, what is, what is the difference? That's a type of apologies! uh No uh traffic ticket is a uh a more simple ticket. A traffic ticket is is appealed through the city process and then goes to court as I'm, not sure I'm gonna get the word right, but.

E

More, like a uh uh uh is it like.

J

More, like a small claim, more like a small claim, Style Court situation, whereas a civil penalty is what you get. If you you know, you're in a bar fight or stats, you know something.

C

J

A much more aggressive you know it's a more like violence is an involved. So you know a traffic ticket is more appropriate ticket to be issued for parking rather.

E

Than a civil second civil course, so it's less severe.

L

Yeah, that's that's what I figured yeah but uh yeah unruly violent or destructive Behavior being more of the Civil uh ticket saying.

E

Thank you for that clarification, yeah.

L

um At least for some of the slots, I guess it's possible that parks department might still be kind of monitoring the lots for, for maybe some of those other things. Yeah.

J

And I've I talked to Cindy and and we're exploring what Authority they would have under our ordinance, because appendix C There are rules but there's nothing. We have to explore the legal structure around how they would enforce our appendix versus a field of their appendix and that's a conversation. I need to have with our legal team with Cindy and see what they're you know are. Are they act? Do we have Jackie and them held the handheld and they write the tickets or we or do they just monitor the week up?

J

Of course, we I worked that out.

L

Interesting uh Byzantine, even but uh thank you no, no more questions. Yeah.

F

H

I know we communicated a little bit about the the Waterfront North lot. Is that I don't know that that's listed on this document, but it could be that it's in one through six yeah.

J

Yeah, it might already been one through six.

H

We'll check it out yeah, so I was just concerned that it hadn't showed up. I know that was a little bit of an odd lot. That's got the the 40-year private you know. Contract set on it, but still there are meters there. So I'll.

J

Double check that it's there, because just like in this memo, we added 194, because that was an oversight. One night for Saint.

H

Paul right at the Champlain- and it came up in the other document that we're talking about later in this meeting about the uh all the parkings the parking study for the Main Street thing. So that's another reason why I saw there was a piece missing. So as long as it is listed as one of the municipal parking lots on all the places, it's supposed to be that.

E

Would be great appreciate.

J

You pointing these things out to us, because we don't see.

H

It I love Maps. Thank.

F

You all right, uh commissioner, Fox.

M

um I'll say: I'm really is this: you know push to have DPW takeover or enforcement of these parking lots. It's really great to see the city kind of making that efficiency across departments I think that is, you know, really good sign of that collaboration.

M

um I guess an additional comment to that was that it would be great to hear from Parks like how this is going to impact them. So if, at some point we can hear from Cindy or some other representative about what how the process has gone through.

K

M

Know Parks Rec and Waterfront, commission or.

C

M

um I think that would be helpful um and then I know that these the other things on this are housekeeping. But I did have a question about the 194 lot designation, I guess just looking for clarification of like what metered versus permitted entails in terms of enforcement, so will permits still be sold and enforced with a metered designation. So it's gonna, be both instead of just the one. Is that.

J

Yeah, so that that uh lot is metered by kiosks right to kiosks, and then we also sell 20 permits in that lot and they can park in any spot just without paying.

M

F

Thanks Mr Barr.

B

You answered my questions about the revenue, but I.

F

I guess I would like to.

B

Just weigh in I'm supportive of this, uh but I'd like to weigh in there just needs to be some really clear, defined. How.

C

B

Get it enforced by dpw's people but Parking Department, just just so that they know and absolutely.

C

If you intended, you said.

B

Your intent was to make that happen. Okay, even.

J

B

Signage in there says this, this line is enforced.

J

If you go to Letty right now, they just put kiosk and letting they're going to start charging for parking there, and the sign is a is a Parks sign, Brown sign with the parks B on it at the bottom. It says: parking management forced by parking, five DPW, okay,.

B

So it's clear that yeah, those are managing.

E

B

Know that those will come, but I just wanted on the record that for sure yes.

F

All right, Vice, chair on the other banko.

N

All right, yes, I'm, I'm, also supportive of um um cross-departmental efficiencies. Do you foresee any time in the future where the raids would dovetail? Because, right now you um from what I understand Parks is still going in the the rates are reference to parks and setting them? Yes, is there a time when you see DPW actually fully cheating.

J

So over the so we've committed so I'm sorry I, didn't you guys know. Jackie is crazy. She's.

E

The market services manager, I'm sorry.

J

um She's running this show, oh, so our first goal is to get the authority to actually do the supports you right. Then, we've committed to parks to have all of their permits digital in our system by this season. So we have to make all the permits first and we've already we've already sort of hashed through them and started to understand their structure and their structure is uh say it can be streamlined. They have like a 25 permit a 35 permit, a thirty dollar permit forty dollar per day.

J

You know this is like all these like five dollars. It's very complicated, so I anticipate that after we get all these permits made Jackie that we will then recycle back to Parks, give them our feedback on workflow customer experience and just trying to streamline that that so their part is Park's Revenue, so I think they will always have it in their appendix and in there that.

E

They have control, but we will certainly be operational to help with the customer.

N

Is there a communication um Outreach going out to you, know the folks who regularly get um the season passes to park at Oakledge or whatever that uh you know not just the sign, but that comes with a permit the information that the enforcement will be through yeah.

J

How it works, we're gonna have to work through parks with that they we see ourselves as providing the back end service and they're. The they're The.

E

Shopper or the cash register see that relationship at this point, I, don't know how that will evolve. The future as.

J

Far as the concept of our One-Stop shop and having a single great page, where a little bit away.

E

From that, but certainly that's where we're at it.

N

And I agree with commissioner Fox. It would be great to have someone from uh Park strike water fund to bounce. Some of you know these concerns and questions over sure and then finally, really just to Echo what some of the other Commissioners said wondering where that um non-parking issue enforcement in a Parks and Rec car park.

N

um You know whose eyes are on what different activities and then what's reported to who, like what sort of the kind of where the responsibility um leaves public works and then goes to the police or goes back to Parks and Rec.

J

Well, at this point, we're fully expecting to patrol our Lots I, see this summer we're going to have somebody going through Letty. Let me just letting because it's big yeah.

E

As an example, going.

J

Through and typing plate numbers in because that's how we're doing it.

C

J

Almost 1600 spaces in the two parking garages so we're doing it now there it's what we're going to be doing we're gonna have to do it that way, but I fully expect that.

E

We're going to be out there doing that.

N

Can you get a um an electric um ESS bike with a portable license plate.

J

I would love to have.

E

Voice reader, we'll figure.

F

Out what kind of yeah.

C

F

We put it on, but.

J

We'll we'll work it on.

C

That front too.

J

Okay, there is talk, you know just some Logistics stuff. So back end. You know we're talking about creating a really streamlined front end for a customer, Right This, One, Stop Shop sounds simple back end, which what wrestling with is hugely complicated because we have revenues now coming in it's a different locations. We have revenues in the garages going to one budget. We have perhapages on the streets coming in on another budget. We have revenues coming in for uh citations on another budget and it's all funneling through the same software.

J

It's all going to different accounts, different sub-accounts, different physical Banks, so we're working with CT office really closely to sort of untangle that back end spaghetti, make sure all the money's flowing all the right places. It's uh it's.

E

A big effort we've been working on it for months now, so.

J

E

Lot a lot back.

J

End Administration, that's.

E

Happening at support it's going to extend something up.

C

E

N

That's great I'm appreciative of that work, Jackie looking at you recognizing that you know like the Duck sailing through the water and then their feet are shuffling underneath. Thank you enough speech. That's all thanks!.

A

Thank you, a quick follow on there as as part of that um organization, or clarifying around the buckets of money. The input speeding, different outputs. Do you anticipate any um ask of city council for like different flexibility or options of how money could be spent.

J

um No, not as part of this I mean that is something solo is always an undercurrent for me.

E

Because I'm always looking to find a new.

J

E

Way to do something, and sometimes there are ordinances that put guardrails on things well against.

J

E

J

Sort of an undercurring of everything we're trying to do is figure out cleaner, needer, better tighter waste.

E

J

So I come to you to change these ordinances, so it can reflect our goals.

J

Yeah, we're always thinking I, think that's a nice segue to our next topic.

F

A

Right, uh nothing further from my end, thank you for that uh Mr Goulding. Could we check on the phone and see if anyone's interested? In speaking, it's a public comment on this item.

D

Are there no members of the public currently in Cuba.

A

All right, thank you, and none in the room that said I'll bring it back to the commission. There's some suggested language around uh the awareness changes that are in front of us here.

B

Stats recommendations stated you can read it.

F

B

You want me to read no.

F

That's right: we got.

A

F

A

Thank you. So we have a motion from commissioner Barr.

L

A little Amendment and appendix c section, 18, Part, B uh lines, 11 and 12.. The word the is repeated twice in both of those so I uh would strike the second and fourth does: if they're not reduplicated, is it yeah.

E

J

Know banana 12.

J

A

And um making sure we got this correct was that the second from Mr damiani, uh with the suggested edit from commissioner Mutan, who seems friendly to the motioner on the right to the secondary okay, as I understand most of that stuff gets sort of read through by legal before.

J

That's when the comments goes to the artist of motion. Approval is as approved by City attorney, so.

E

Sorry most likely catch that too, but I appreciate.

L

It when's the right time to bring it up. That's good. It's.

J

A

Any other discussion around the motion.

A

All right, let's go two of both, then it's all in favor, say: aye hi,.

C

A

Myself, any opposed motion passes unanimously. Thank you great thanks. Moving forward and all right welcome, back parking.

F

E

Let me get by range.

C

C

J

All right so I'm gonna, preface this with my see my feel like I say this every day is parking is complicated and uh we try to think through thoroughly what we're trying to do with goals and expectations and unintended consequences, and all these things so but we're so. This slide deck is a little bit drawn out and- and one thing I didn't address- actually is how this integrates with whoops. But that's something I got we've.

E

Got an internal note to self that's a note to self right there right up.

J

Front I can't be more transparent um so anyway, so this deck sort of pulls this concept apart. How do we deal with parking infractions and what is appropriate penalties uh so I just want to lay the groundwork of how ticketing and towing basically Works in Burlington right now meter violations.

J

You don't pay your meter, you get a ticket, you don't get towed, it's a 15 ticket. You don't get towed, no parking violations, which is things like Park resident parking resident parking areas, are restricted to only people with permits. So that's considered a No Parking Zone as it's identified, it's no parking unless you have a permit so resident parking here to Corner hydrants time limited anything where you're prevented from parking in a location. What's called a no Park area, however, operationally RPP resident parking has not been towed, that's just been a historical operating.

J

The way things and there's also been we've noticed: inconsistent approaches to other no parking variation uh violations over time throughout the city. So it concerns us that enforcement's not always consistent and not consistent with ordinance. So we're trying to clean this all up so, but we also recognize that it can also be done in a more nuanced way so that the penalt number no parking.

J

So there can be more creative approaches to no parking penalties. So this deck is an introduction to our thinking around this, and it's really I'm going to go through a sort of a methodical way. But it's intended to uh explain what we're thinking and get your feedback. So please interrupt me I'm going to sort of March if I can't but interrupt me if something.

E

Doesn't make sense no.

J

And just to be clear.

E

J

K

J

Trying to pull this apart, tease it out and try to get to some rest uh uh yeah resolution. That makes sense so.

E

J

This everything we're talking about in this slide deck is related to no parking violation, we're not talking about people parked at meters or parked in the garage.

J

So we we identified some structural goals that we wanted to hit. We want to enhance the educational aspect of a ticket. Fundamentally, we don't want to look at a ticket, that's punishment. We want to look at it as education opportunity like stubbing your toe on the corner. I bet do.

E

J

Okay, we want to support the appropriate enforcement of Public Safety Equitable access to parking, neighborhood expectations like RPP and business needs like time limited parking downtown, and then we also need to maintain efficient office workflows. If we've got to go, read through a whole flowchart for every ticket, we write it's going to just be really cumbersome and inconsistent for the public they're not going to know what's going on, so those are structural goals.

J

Our intended impact on the community is to balance the penalty with the offense lower the social impact relative to minor first offenses and maintain the ability to enforce important ordinances related to safety equity. So our structural goals and our intended impacts are kind of the same Concepts, just looking at them sort of from a different angle.

J

So our approach is to create some sort of progressive penalty scale, it's based on a type of violation and a frequency of violation. So basically, what have you done and have you done it before?

J

That's a simple way to say think of that, but we also need to make sure that it's a simple enough approach that we can apply it equally across all no parking areas in the city. So people don't get confused because people get confused really easily and.

C

J

Don't blame them I've had my car towed frustrated, so the progress the panel, the framework we're proposing is a is level one and level two so level. Two is a standard penalties. What we're doing now? The ordinance has shall language in it and if you're in, if this is a second offense, if the violation represents a threat to safety or Equity, that's level, two you're getting you're getting what's happening today you park in front of a fire hydrant, that's level, two you're getting ticketed tote, because that's a safety that threatens the.

E

Safety and Equity of.

J

The city level, one is what we're thinking of: is this new sort of category of penalties? So it's like for a first offense and if the violation represents represents more of an inconvenience, then really a safety or Equity thing, and it would feel more appropriate that you get a slap on the wrist for this type of offense. So again, this is a framework of how we're approaching- and we don't know exactly we'll get to what these options might be on the next couple sides.

J

But this is sort of the ideas we have sort of a detuned approach, and then we have the standard approach so we're calling it alternative ticket in tow versus current.

J

So when we're ticketing and Towing we have, we have three options for each tickets. We can give a warning: we can give a half price or I could call it half price, because that's easy, some sort of percentage, twenty percent off sixty percent off whatever, but I.

C

J

It half price or.

E

A full ticket, so nothing.

J

A modified ticket or full ticket, and in Towing we have similar options, don't tell them tow them in a couple hours when they wake up and come out and move their car or tell them right away, and we need to mix those up in creative ways to figure out.

J

What's the right approach and we need to meet these goals of that I've already stated: Public Safety, equal access, neighborhood expectations, business needs, education of the person and then workflow for us. So I made this Matrix. This is where we're patient and pay attention it's complicated. So here's our here's, our toe options and our ticket options.

J

These are our goals and Jackie and I sat down and we went through each of these scenarios and we said: okay does a warning and a no-tow address our goals and if it addressed the goal, we gave it a capital A that clearly addressed the goal: capital, a capital b, capital c, if it sort of addressed the goal, but it's kind of a pain for some reason- or it was just not clear. Then we gave it a lower case, but it still addresses the goal.

J

If it doesn't address the goal at all, we gave it nothing, so we went through as basically the goal here is to figure out which of these mixtures creates the most compliance with our goals.

J

So this is what we can came up with. So if you look at the warning, Noto I'm going to start in the upper left yeah it meets the public safety goal because remember everything in level: one is not a threat to Public Safety. So everything in here has got an A, because by definition this is an inconvenience situation right, but a warning in Noto is kind of a pain for us from a workflow perspective, and it's not terribly good education, because you just got a warning. There was no.

J

It was just a piece of paper that you, through in the glove box or the background or whatever. So we didn't think that was a particularly viable option, then delayed toe and toe don't apply because we can't tow anybody. If we don't give them a ticket have to have a ticket, so those just don't apply.

J

So then we looked at a half price ticket with no toe and again Public Safety at met doesn't necessarily meet neighborhood expectations and it kind of depends on what your neighborhood expectation is. If you live in an RPP Zone, some people wholeheartedly expect every single car that doesn't have a permit to be towed right away and some people have more compassionate opinions. So it doesn't really squarely meet the neighborhood expectations because it's not feeding.

J

um And also it's not as good at education, because it's at price and you didn't get towed and again all of these really have some workflow issues related.

J

So we didn't like that particularly well similar idea with half price and delayed tow, except you know, it's delayed toe doesn't even have the f in it because that's such a pain for us to give a different style, diff A reduced ticket and when the, if we give the ticket, then we gotta wait around. Let's say we're not going to tow somebody for two hours after we give them a ticket. Well, now we've got to stand kind of stand around wait right, so we gotta babysit this car, for whatever this delay period is right.

J

So that's an operationally very wobbly for us, so we said get rid of that one. So then we got to full ticket toe. Well, that's what level two is, but throw that one out. So now we're left with these three. So these three now do something interesting.

J

Each of them does something interesting, so a full ticket no toe is it does meet this neighborhood expectation thing sort of the way half price did, but it's it's much better education, because they're actually getting a real legit Ticket full ticket, 75 bucks- and you know you learn something from that, but you didn't get towed, so you know that it's a nice no-tow option right.

J

So we get to delayed toe similar scenario. But again you know notice F isn't on there and then we get full ticket or we get a half price ticket and tow again we have. You know this. This meets a lot of our goals because we we.

J

By telling somebody right off, we do get that Equity piece. You know somebody's uh parked in a 15-minute spot. Well, that 15-minute spot is there for some Equitable, reasonable business has said. We need this spot to run our business, so there's an equity component in there, so the next three slides actually I get into sort of describing in detail how these are met. So so here's one so so, there's no B, because the vehicle was not removed. We haven't, we haven't addressed Equity there.

J

C is slower case because it does remove the vehicle, but it's at on the second offense. You know it does. It does have some teeth. um There's no D, because if you don't toe somebody who's parked in that 15 minute spot right in front of their business. They're, not you know, that's not really solving their problem. They need to do it. You know like I, always think Leonardo as I have in my head right, they're, cycling, cars in and out of their 15-minute spot all day long. That's a critical part of their business.

J

If cars blocking that that it can't sit there, it has to be moved because they need to run their business uh and.

J

uh So education, they do get educated because they take it. um It's additional back office work for us, but we can do that. You know doing that conditional figuring out whether or not to tell or not option two similar.

J

It removes the vehicle eventually it so that Sports Equity supports neighborhood expectations for its business needs, but not particularly well. um They do get educated. But here again we just talked about there's no F, because now we got to give the ticket, and now we got to wait around and watch this, the one where we delay at the tub and then the Third.

J

It removes the vehicle promptly. So we get Equity, we get neighborhood, we need neighborhood expectations uh meet business needs, they get fully educated and we have this back office thing. We have to do additional, but we can do that.

J

So these are the these are the prefer. This is a preferred Suite of ideas because they meet the most goals in that Matrix and we like having even though number one only has three goals met. We like having the option of a no toe penalty on the board, but how do we apply? These three different conditions: we've got 65 different violations, we write I, think probably 40 of them are no parking, 40 or 50, or no parking. So we need to go through because we need to minimize complexity.

J

We can't be writing a lot of different tickets, so types of tickets conditionally, so we need to go through and look at every penalty, every violation figure out which one of these three really addresses the intent of that violation, because every one of our violations has a safety or Equity bent to it. Some of them are safety and Equity. Some of them are pure safety, and some of them are peer Equity. So we have we.

J

What I see is the next step is, is figuring out how to apply these and seeing, if all three apply, then we use all three if we can figure out a way to get one of these to work everywhere, that'd be really sweet because that's really simplifies our world, but it's complicated. Did you have a question? I'm sorry.

L

Yeah among those 40 to 50 violations. How many are toes or like you know what what fraction well.

J

That's what I'm saying.

L

The child toes are actually toes and if they're towed, is it just out of the loading zone or are they going displays all.

J

Of them, so everything I'm talking about tonight is all no-toe stuff or no parking stuff. So it's all toe and.

L

Where are the cars going, but.

J

No everything that's considered, no parking gets towed. It's a good question, though, because we do for different infractions. We will tow Street to Street in town to save somebody that whole trip all the way out to splaines and save them. 20 bucks and saving the exposure to the 30 bucks. The next day um is that how we normally do most hosts downtown unless it's stop.

M

E

J

Which ones do we just toast.

C

J

Ones, oh right right do.

C

Yellow signs like when you see the.

J

Yellow signs out that say no parking because of like construction or something's happening. If you park there, you get towed Street to Street. That must.

E

Be an ordinance to say that right, yeah and it's you know: yeah.

J

They still get mad briefly.

B

So because they got to walk me, locating there far but yeah.

F

J

Most toes go displays.

J

So, like I said next steps, we I want to get some feedback on this thought process, um both the framework, the sort of two-step framework and these three alternative ticket approaches, because then we can go back and move positively and concretely looking at the list of violations and apply to the best of our judgment, which of those uh ticket and toe options, applies to the various and then bring those back to you explain to you how that all works, and then we within the next month we can get that package together, get it to you, get it get your endorsement and then within the next I'd say four to six months.

J

We've got to go. We got to change ordinance, some ordinance in uh some ordinance in chapter 20. You have the authority to change to some ordinance. You don't have the authority to change so I need to work with legal to make sure that I I want to get your approval with everything we do, but I might have to go to council to actually get coordinates physically changed. There's always lots of coming in from the sides.

E

J

You gotta clean up in this process, so it's going to take a little while then we still have to after we get all that done. Then we have to build our back office system and then we have to get the word out. So there's a there's, some grind to this project, but we're trying to get it right because we really want our ordinances.

J

Are we on our ordinances to reflect the values of our community and we want our tickets to be written consistently appropriately.

E

All the time, that's what we're working towards.

E

So that's it! Thank you for being patient listening.

G

Thanks as well, the commissioner O'neill vivacco for uh raising this issue a couple months ago in your patients in getting a larger look at this more than just one particular type of violation. Thanks.

F

Okay, thank you bring it back to the commissioner for discussion at this time.

C

F

C

M

Well, I guess the question I had is: have you.

M

Done like a demo or like a test applied any of these options to specific violations, and how have they worked like have you kind of gauge that at all or no well,.

J

I did do a first run through and I started, trying to apply. You know where I could do alternative and.

E

J

I was you know something alternative, I hadn't decided what that might be, but what could I do alternative and that was when I realized oh shoot. This might not be so simple, because I can't just do this option here, because if I do this, this is the option. I choose I can't do it here because it doesn't make sense down here. I got yourself different down there. Oh man, now I gotta sit down Instagram Jackie. We got we gotta flesh this out.

J

So I guess to answer questions that say we did test it in the field, but we got tested because I tried to do it.

M

um And what I appreciate about the consideration to restructure this is that I think it gives you that flexibility to be a little more gray, with situations that are gray right. That makes sense.

M

I don't know kind of digesting information, so I don't know if I can come back in a little bit sure but and all I had for right now. Commissioner,.

F

B

Sure so I I guess I'll preface by saying I've got some 18 years in.

C

B

Whether that's good or bad, um so I, um one of the things that was challenging in my previous position, was that I think there was way too much giving I mean there was like 10 tickets and then a tow and.

K

B

Were different levels within each three and it was very complex, so I love that you're trying to become a little more Progressive but you're also trying to structure it from the beginning. I think that's important, because I mean having it, you can almost do anything you want to a ticket in a tow was was really what I felt like Burlington was always about to have something in between little discretion. For the parking attendance is, is something.

C

That's good, it makes them.

B

Feel good because then they can make some decisions while they're out of the field, and it also is more of a it's more receptive of the burlingtonians people that are here. The one challenge that any parking policy or process has is with visitors. And you just need to make sure as much as possible that the rules are clear, yeah I mean and that they're not so different from other places that when somebody comes from Boston, it comes from somewhere else that we just have this weird off one.

B

K

But if you park in front of a.

B

Fire hydrant I mean in most places.

K

C

B

Park in a handicap, space and you're, not handicapped, you should get to it.

J

So, just to a point of clarification is what we're trying to do is we're trying to bake the flexibility into the system, because it would make clear, To Us by our legal team, that our parking, Service agents actually have no discretion in the field and that's part of the problem, which is a way we're getting around. That. No discretion is by giving them structured discretion so to speak. They don't have it but we're giving them that structure because it becomes a constitutional issue of you know, sort of.

E

No due process right right.

J

uh uh Another interesting aside, one of the things that we're also about communication is we Alan. Mashtar is a new traffic.

E

J

That's the team that I also lead does all the signs and he's looking at the costs and feasibility and timeline and implications of actually putting those little signs that have tow truck pictures on them and we're trying to figure out just how much work. That is, how much is it going to cost, and will it really make an impact?

J

um That's something we're so.

E

We're attacking this on multiple fronts, right.

B

And I'm a big believer in actually putting some information on the actual citation that you give because nine times out of ten, you know, let's, let's say somebody who's, honest and made a mistake, will read the ticket and hopefully learn from it, those that throw it on the ground. You know whatever, but at least you've done as much as you can, by putting the information.

B

Clearly I take it. This is why you're getting this well.

J

What is it one of the things we're thinking we're contemplating operationally? Is we have the ability to to print out a non-ticket ticket I, don't want to call it a warning: it's a notice, yeah, and so when we, if we come to a two-hour parking area, we could theoretically go and start and met him. We measure where their stem is on the tire nice, that's seven o'clock.

E

Shocking, it's called shocking. It's chocolate actually.

J

The stem and when that gets piped into the handheld, we can actually print out a little ticket put it on the windshield that says hey at two o'clock. We started the clock on your car. It's a two-hour Zone. We come back in two hours, you're, probably going to get ticketed and towed. There are some real operational hurdles to that. Just in volume of tickets that aren't tickets that we would be writing. So we have to work through that.

J

But our Our intention is to do things like that to better communicate with people that hey if you park somewhere and guess what we're watching you and if you don't move we're gonna get a ticket and you're gonna get towed too or whatever.

B

Parking is very emotional, so it's it's the first and last thing you do. If that's a good experience, then everything else is good.

F

Okay, thank you. Vice.

C

Chair Oliva.

F

N

Thank you. um Thank you. So much for um for digging into this um and I know you're still diving in so we really do appreciate it. um My concern bringing this up was um originally because I, um because Towing hadn't been enforced on a street that is not resident only but is surrounded by Resident only streets. So there's timed four-hour parking.

N

um So then it just like I saw cars getting towed and it felt like. Oh, is this predatory and um so to have um the public understand one system where oh, you get a ticket and you you learn um and then shift to the actual enforcement of the ordinance right am I using the right language. Okay,.

J

Well, I'll be an ordinance, but yes.

N

um Which was you, the car shall be towed. um Ticketed entode was um seemed like enforcement without education, so I appreciate all of these um options and you know, and for the full ticket, no toe um fitting in with your uh whoops program in the ideal World, um but whatever whatever um Matrix Cube you go through.

N

um The education piece, I think needs to be kind of clearly thought through and then thinking you know, then you know I thought about. Oh, the towing piece and I've lived in Washington DC I've lived in New, York I've lived in Boston I mean where it's almost like. You know a hobby for you to get booted, um oh um so, but that is that, was you got three tickets in DC? This is a long time ago, but I think you got three tickets.

N

I never got booted just for the record here, but um you knew that that was. That was the eventual consequence. If you got three tickets so that kind of clarity um in in decoding the ordinance um would be helpful for you know to communicate that to the public and then also to visitors.

N

So if you go down the street and see a residential street- and you see the towing thing, what what's what's the image, what are the values that Burlington wants to um kind of put forth, so there I think there is something like that that we need to consider. As far as um what are the different and I know, you've said there are 50 different types of tickets, but if we look at a business district versus a residential district, are there ways to think about them a little bit differently?

N

Every time you know you do your Matrix I.

J

Think that's how I think that's I! Imagine that's how these three might end up. We might end up with all three of these functioning for three different and, like you say, we have to come up with some justification for why we've applied one version, progression versus another version, and maybe it is business downtown improvements, District versus president, only so yeah. So that's very much part of the next step of this right.

N

But while keeping in mind the f, which I forget what the f stands for the the workflow um making this so that it really is operationally um possible for your back end folks as well as your front end, um you know your your parking enforcement folks to be able to manage that. It isn't just this mind-boggling like wait. Where am I now um so I kind of recognize, all those um those challenges, so I think um keep up, keep on keeping on and look forward to kind of hearing more about.

N

You know any categories that some of those um 40 or 50 parking infractions can fall into certain buckets, but with the goal of whatever we do, that education piece is really key and what are the values of our city that we want to put forth to Residents visitors, um the downtown area again. Thank you.

F

Yeah there's nobody.

H

I commend you in this analysis of this. This is just great I love.

H

This kind of thing I think you've done a great job of thinking it through and it is, it is I see how it is complicated, but I also want to um say, I really appreciate the focus on the education uh and behavior change, because I know you know the comparison you're either doing you want to improve safety and Behavior, Uh or you want to raise revenue, and so- and you know we always hear about people that have speed traps and all these other things that are specifically like.

H

So the question always is: are we trying to improve the safety and all those factors you came up with, um or are we trying to find ways to raise revenue and clearly you're, making it very clear that the goal is not to raise revenue and penalize people? So I I really appreciate that part of the the background of some of this um and the the uh there's sort of two different audiences.

H

In some ways we have the population of people that are regular residents, that Park, so the educational value it has a different uh impact than a visitor. Who will come and be here for the first time, and so in some ways you have to. You know the way that we do this uh to me.

H

You you, you almost have a slightly different um the thing going on there, so somebody that first visits uh the option for uh half price in tow isn't quite the same in it's it's just it's a little bit different of an experience for a visitor.

H

That's like the toe thing is probably not the greatest way to go with the visitor first time so anyway, just an observation, I, don't know how you would actually factor that in and because really it's you know, fairness is fair, but uh but my thought is that that the educational part of it is going to be more relevant to the people who live here- and you know, might do these various things and be shocked about what happened so um the the question I one question I had about the the the frequency uh of violations.

H

You know is this: how does that factor into this? So is this like the alternate that you get when it's the first offense type of thing and then and then then you're just into the normal routine, when it comes to be second and more okay,.

J

So this is just that one first and if it's, if it's one per year or two per year or one for every two years, you know we've still got to resolve that it's getting back to you mentioned revenues.

J

You know we do have a very Keen focus on being Equitable and being nice about parking, but there is also the reality that this Department. This group is a contributor to the general fund, and we understand that the general fund depends on us, for they do depend on us for a measurable amount of money. So we have to be cognizant that we can't just give everything away for free, because we are a participating part of the city, Revenue stream, so something we balance well.

H

Well, it's the their counter thing. If everybody was perfectly well behaved and never did a No Parking violation, we would have no Revenue. So you know we cannot. You know it's sort of like yeah, it's like taking money from gambling to pay for Education like if we really want to have. You know we have a lot of bad behavior that we have taxes on and if people really were good and didn't do that bad behavior, we wouldn't have that Revenue. So we have a we have. We have a sort of mixed uh problem here.

H

You know, and but but I I appreciate what you're doing is you're trying to make it appear Equitable, so that if somebody does uh get a ticket and oh the 75 or even the 15 at the at the parking meter, they should go. It's a contribution to it's a Civic contribution in a lot of ways to this this this this community, honestly I honestly I, think that if I ever get a parking ticket, I go I, messed up, I didn't get back in time.

H

uh Fifteen dollars my contribution to this community I, honestly I, don't think it's a bad attitude to take, but most people probably don't think that way of.

J

Which we just gave 37 000 to feeding Chittenden as part of our fines for food program. So it's even more than contributing to the city government. We're actually contributing to our local will.

H

Any of any of these any of these fees- I, don't know how you Market it, but any of these fees, the that's part of the education we we do put them. We put the money towards something that is for these safety things and making sure businesses have places to park. So if you I, don't know how you're going to factor that in except maybe you could put a little Smiley thing on the bottom of their ticket. That says you know your contribution, don't feel bad!

H

Your your contribution, you're, making a contribution, even though it's painful right now you're making a contribution to the Civic life here in Burlington. So it's it's just an idea. So I think that was um so. You had the three that I get you've got fill ticket Noto, you have full ticket delayed Tow and you have half price ticket in tow or.

J

Some percentage there or.

E

H

Think I think it's great and I and I I hope you keep working on it and it and it.

C

H

Think it's looking I think it's looking really great. So thank you very much for that effort. Thank you.

F

Thank you, Mr Montano,.

L

I really love the Burlington code of ordinance and uh especially uh appendix 3, uh the uh traffic commission, so actually where, where all of these uh different parking conditions are present and possibly enforced, I don't drive. But let's pretend I did and I parked on St Paul Street between Maple and Main Street. It's a three-hour parking Zone, but let's say I left the car there for three and a half hours uh shall I be towed like what? What? What are the odds that I shall be towed like for for all of these different violations?

L

I I understand safety, but for all of the uh Equity uh violations are, are people being towed daily so.

J

Well, yeah people are towed every day, yeah.

L

N

J

We should say on TV, it's so bad. It's working band tonight.

J

Dearly and we do have a dedicated crew Everybody should know we have what six people staying up all night tonight, seven to run the show to just managing That's, not including any of the plow drivers. That's just our crew managing towing cars and keeping track of where all those cars are and being here at three o'clock in the morning when somebody calls it says, where's, my car, so it's a big big effort to say thank you. Every.

E

Time these folks, it's a lot of work.

J

C

Two-Year question about.

J

The Saint Paul Street: this is a challenge because those are meters and but it also is time limited within the context of a meter it's different than if you have a 15 well.

L

I broke the law, I'm, a law, breaker I I stole a vehicle, and then uh you.

J

Know then, that I there are some tricky ordinance things that we still need to work through to get them tight. That's.

E

My message: it's constant.

L

I, don't think you should be towed in in a lot of the cases, but I totally understand that there is discretion and if there were some way to write that into ordinance, I think that would be a good alternative to these kind of very, very limited, like you will absolutely never get a ticket if it's these conditions or you'll get this precise combination of penalties. If it's this violation and your first time- and you know it's a weekday.

J

um Precisely what we're going to make it to.

E

E

B

You're, a repeat offender, then: do it all the time every.

J

Week, so we we, you know, we don't want to tell people, but you know just a quick anecdote just to give you sort of what we deal with daily is we have people that are if a 5 575 dollars in account balance and it's 275 here in scoff, it's over 275, so they'll come in they'll pay 201 and get down to 274, so they're, not in scoffs. They don't get their car towed. Well, what happens the very next week they get another ticket and then two weeks after that they get another ticket right back Scott.

J

Then we tow them so like it's just really hard Edge. This is a very blunt tool for education and it doesn't really work and I think two-year point. We need to find a way to educate the.

E

Public, better and I'm, hoping that some sort of progressive approach will ease us into that.

L

All right, but under the circumstance that I brought up initially I, probably shall not be towed right under.

J

The I can't I can't exactly answer that right now because we're we, that is a very special case, that we just literally sort of discovered ourselves this morning, as we were talking about this, that's straight, but not we're talking. So we need to figure out that practical reality. Commuter violations aren't taught meter. Violations are not towed. So so that's my interpretation of it. It's not in no parking violation. It's a meter violation parking, it's a meter violation situation, but I think it needs to be tightened up because I can see gray area.

L

I hope the right people shall be towed.

L

B

F

All right, uh commissioner, damiani.

K

Yeah I think the only other thing I would add is just as you're going through that Matrix of the 50 different things I hope that the sort of percentage discount stays to a lot of them. I. Think from my standpoint, that's the middle ground that I see for this and um I think in terms of equity.

K

It's that sort of helps address the it sounds like a lot of the conversation for Equity is around the immediate either adjacent business owners or adjacent residents in like a resident parking area, but the equity I think also should be on the person getting the ticket and I think that percentage discount helps with that, and maybe, in addition to the little Civic contribution, if you are going to throw away the ticket, please put it in one of the new uh toters that uh Burlington residents have.

B

Just purchased.

B

F

Very good, thank you.

A

um Is it safe to say that uh as you introduce? This is a we're talking? One sort of narrowly scoped conversation today for like the safety related stuff is, is this kind of conversation forthcoming for other categories of things like the overstaying, the meter.

J

Well, the overstand, the meter is fifteen dollars and no toe.

D

J

I know my opinion, is that's not a terribly steep penalty and that we don't get complaints about.

E

People are upset, they come in man right away, bye.

J

Does it feels acute as this if I feel it is that.

F

A

F

A

Sort of generally on the topic of discretion, of course, when there's discretion, there's opportunity for bias implicit bias up into keep in mind as far as sort of right training the to make sure that's in mind for the folks that are, you know tasked with carrying out this discretion.

J

Well, there won't be any discretion, it will be code, they won't have.

A

It should be clearly.

J

It will be yeah, it will be if this is their first offense. They get this Progressive.

E

Thing if it's their second, they.

J

Get this thing there will be no discretion, we can't get the description I'd love to, but for all the equity reasons, the bias reasons the.

E

Constitutional reasons.

A

Thank you all right. uh We've made it around the commission here.

A

Anyone in the room probably comment on this item. Mr Goulding. Is there anyone on the phone interested in uh public comment on this item.

D

A

Time all right, thank you for that, but there's no action requested on this one would appreciate sort of the context and, where you're all headed on this. Thank you for the work. Man thanks.

J

A lot thank you, alrighty.

A

Moving forward item seven on our agenda: Main Street Great streets updates, optimal communication.

L

St Paul is a great Street.

B

I

Cheers managing our Main Street project and for BHB we'd be much better at a previous meeting she's here to talk about parking today and not intersection.

O

Sure, um but we've conducted a parking study um inventoried and then study both occupancy data internal for data for all of the parking spaces in the downtown area and really concentrated on the core that five minute walk Zone to kind of the downtown before that there is the perception of there not being enough parking and so really wanted to see if we could drop in with that.

O

If that was true or if there's parts available- and it's just um you know not not as easy to be found Etc and then to really look at what the potential impacts could be of the Main Street project and can that parking? The accommodated? Can that loss of parking, our biparton community accomplished on other streets and in other lots, and we did find out some interesting things- there's a lot of data here, I'm going to try to just give you a high level overview, but we can drill into anything specifications.

I

Yep I'm gonna show you some slide. This is what was in your packet um but uh to a presentation kind of PowerPoint so that it's a little bit more visible on the screen here, but.

O

Really all of the data and information yeah. This is really interesting. You know summary instead of going through every detail, in fact, um so basically, as I just said, the background is, is that obviously, you know parking should help support the city's multimodal and climate goals. um It was concern regarding the project impact.

O

What that impact would be on parking um and one of the things one of the context to things that we started to talk about is that covet has kind of changed some of the demand over time um and so there's a lot of perceptions, there's a lot of anecdotes, but there was very little data, so we really wanted to collect data and also take a look back at the past study that was done back in 2015 and see how things have changed since that time, and we also got a fair amount of information from the parking office just about what they're, seeing in Trent we'll get into that.

O

So first we took a look at the utilization and um the this shows over the course of the day how the parking study area utilization was over the course of the day, and what you can see is on Street on the weekday and the weekend weekend.

O

It's much higher demand number it's been off Street in the parking, Supply um and I think that it's very important, we'll get into live evidence later and depends on how that changes that our perception of the availability of parking, um but so you'll, see circles on each of these is one of those peak time frames happened.

O

um When those peak time frames, those Peak demand times happened um and, as I said, we'll get it to the specifics of some of that. But this graph just shows really highlights that difference between in green. You have the on-street demand up in you know 70s and 80 percent occupied, and you have the off street parking significantly lower than that occupancy data.

O

It's a little difficult to see here, but on the curb on the lines that are on the streets, you'll see red, perfect red. For um you know, the highly utilized blocks um down to Green is a very underutilized block, so you can see there are some blocks very utilized and, as you get a little further from kind of that Center you end up with some blocks that are a little less utilized, and this is during that you know kind of peak time window.

O

So this just highlights just even how much in the study area that variation was foreign.

O

S we like to look at is turnover, and that really actually dovetails very well in the presentation that just um just occurred. One of the things that is a concern is, if your spaces aren't turning over when they should, it does have an impact on the retailers, and we definitely heard that from The Advisory uh committee. You know there's that real concern that um that parking isn't turning over.

C

In that the parking spaces.

O

Aren't available for their retail customers as much as need to be so if I park my car and what should only be there for two hours and I leave at four. That's a missed opportunity, for you know another customer basically to come in and park in that space um and, of course the the worst of this is when you have a full day, employee who parks in one of those spots and the customers aren't getting the benefit of the turnover of that spot so similar to the others, the shortest duration.

O

The quickest turnover spaces are shown in green, that's more positive, some of the red. So the longer terms- and in this case um the longer term parking- is usually almost unregulated blocks too, where there is less signage and regulations telling people that they have to move along.

O

So off street parking, so we've now discovered that there is a lot of availability, a lot of Supply available off Street and one of the things that we started to look at is really what is the what's keeping people from going off screen and it would be someone on the left side of that screen.

O

This is just an example of some of the signage at some of the lots and how some of them, even if you read all the signs you can get very overwhat like can I actually Park here, am I supposed to. How much is this going to cost a lot of? It doesn't make sense, and it sounds you know, am I going to be tot Ono. Just during the day, I might not stick around long enough to read all the signs to really be able to understand.

O

There isn't consistent signage, there's a consistent messaging, and one of the other things that we found is some of these off. Street lots are costing more than the on-street parking, so we're really disincentivizing people from parking in these off Street lots and garages, and that is where we'd like them to park, especially if they'll be there for a longer time. We also just quickly mentioned on Safety and Security I know, that's something the city is working on and there's been some study about those multimodal connections.

O

How do you feel once you get out of your car and you're walking? Is there safe sidewalk? Is it a smooth sidewalk um really to make that the most enjoyable and comfortable trip we are asking them to park somewhere that isn't right out on the street right out in the open.

O

So we started to look at the availability and who owns some of these slots, and so the concern that we end up seeing here is a number of the Lots really in that downtown core. That blue is what we considered that five minute kind of walk to that um Urban commercial core.

O

um Is that there's a number of those that are not available to the public on the weekdays until a certain time, and because of that, you might not be getting as much utilization of them and in a lot of cases, I think that is the truth that there were long-term leases for some of these spots or they're reserved in case a new tenant comes into a building and there's a lot of potential opportunity there. Having those lots not available during the weekday is a detriment really limits them. The parking Supply during that time.

O

I think I already mentioned that parking rates also provide that disincentive to parking in these lots and garages, because, if I can park on the street for a dollar or a dollar fifty an hour and parking lot, I'm going.

K

To pay four dollars.

O

An hour I'm going to spend some time cruising those streets, adding.

K

To the congestion.

O

Looking for someone leaving a spot, and that's really, why we're getting that really high utilization on Street um in the lower utilization in in those lots of garages.

O

So one of the questions that came up is how did we adjust for covid?

O

um We looked at a lot of historic data, whether it was the study that DPW had undertaken back in 2015, as well as the data collected by the city in key meter zones, and we could really look at a pre and postcovid time to see the difference, and what we found is that the demand over time before covet to now on street is very similar. There's very little different that there there should not be any adjustment to that demand.

O

Now, that's not to say that demand may not have come out of the garages it might be on the street, but those people are parking on the street. Those numbers that have stayed very consistent, Over.

C

O

However, those off-story facilities we adjusted up by 40 percent because we really did see that Olympia historic data set there still is and I think some of that may be the softness in the office market and or that people are not driving to work as many days per week. It's not what it once was and, as I said, that comes through in some of the parking spaces that we know are at least to either buildings or organizations in this very low utilization associated with those leases. So we did make a covid-19 adjustment.

O

um That's not to say this, isn't the new normal, but I know we don't want to obviously plan for.

J

I

O

There is still going to continue to be a rebound in part in demand. We want to make sure that what that we're, you know taking that into account.

O

Yeah I can consume in on that. That's that would be helpful. um So, ultimately, looking at the available parking, there's 120. This is at the peak time on a weekday, there's 124 on-street spaces available in 122 off-street spaces. So to me, as I, looked at each of these and again it's in your packing look in more detail. There are some blocks that only have one spot or have zero spots available.

O

There are a number of blocks that have more I double checked the math, because I was like I, don't know if that really looks like 124. Yes, there are 124 apartment spaces available in that five minute block shed um and then the off Street number here is a little lower than what you'll see on Saturday and that's really because all of those braid out lots are not available currently and we'll get into that. You know what recommendation on that as we move forward shifting over to.

C

O

It's a little leg on the screen share, my laptop so on Saturday. There are fewer on-street spaces available, but a lot more off-street spaces that are available, so the total Supply is significantly higher on a Saturday, but.

I

O

Visiting from out of town and I'm, not sure which of those garages are lots, I can park in you.

E

Know I may not know that.

O

There's that much parts available.

O

So we talked about a lot of potential strategies and I'm, really looking at pricing and curb regulation, adjustments and I think you know. Obviously it sounds like the parking Department's delving into that sort of thing. As far as the regulation um really in your high demand areas where you want a lot of turnover, you want them to be more expensive.

O

You want them to be shorter term and then, as you move out from that radius, you can get less expensive and you can have longer time periods, but if you really want to encourage turnover spaces and shorter trips, you want to price that accordingly, so that that's the type of trick you get in that space, in that it isn't the type of place that I'm going to be there for five hours. I want to take a chance and see if I can sneak by and not get that ticket.

O

In the meantime, um we do also want to continue to enhance those multimodal links, as I said, really to get someone to park in a garage. In fact, one of my co-workers commented specifically. She was. She ran the parking study and commented specifically.

O

She went to park in one of those garages and felt very uncomfortable when she pulled in and didn't get out of her car and instead drove back out and found somewhere else to park, and so it's really making making that whole experience more comfortable and more desirable, and then one of the things that was brought up at The Advisory Group- that we think would be important, is really starting to talk to the owners of the additional Supply, especially in that core area.

O

There is a plenty of parking Supply there that could be better shared and better available and really discuss things like pricing and I think we might get into that on the next side with those private owners too, because if those logs, if they really understood what we found and like how much of an opportunity, they're missing out because they're charging this much, whereas if they charge this much, they might get 10 times demand.

O

um You know that could be a good partnership in the discussion to have um parking, signage and wave binding is something that.

C

Would be very helpful so that.

O

When I am the visitor coming in from out of town, it's very clear to where parking facilities are that that I can park in. um Obviously we want to continue to invest in TDM's practices. We don't want to continue and I know. The city feels strongly about this. We don't want to continue building parking for increasing demand. We obviously want to reduce that um and then really the enforcement strategy, which you know again. The conversation today was about, but continue that enforcement.

O

If we decide that certain um you know, meter segments should be um higher terminal for really make sure that that enforcement is there and I know that has been a challenge for the city in recent years.

O

The final strategy is providing additional public parking. We know in light of what's happening on Main Street, um with some impact to the parking on street. uh There is. There is some interest in that, and this is just an example of that gateway gateway, parcel of being able to get a 25 increase in parking by re-striping and laying it out a little differently uh being a little more efficient when we do have park at high demand parked Austrian parking facilities like this get as much as we.

C

O

Of them, and one of the things you'll also find in the study, is a discussion that, as Parcels redevelop work with the work with the owners to see if there is a way to let there be a public parking shared situation as well, so that that visitor can't park once visit those. You know this. Those businesses maybe and then also visit other businesses in the corner and not have to move and look for a leader in space to visit somewhere else.

C

I

Since my slide, uh so just to speak a little to the schedule and if we're here tonight giving an introduction of the work that we've been doing, the data collection that we've had.

C

I

So, just to just to give an update um and also have an opportunity for you to provide feedback on this tonight, start getting it out. There publicly get it somewhere that it's recorded, that other people actually hear. Jen speak to the data, because it is a very complicated bit of information.

I

And then, where do we go from here? So in April we look to come back uh taking in some of the information that we're getting from the study. Taking a good look at where the Main Street concept is going, we're going to start sharing some ideas. We have about how we're laying out the regulation along the street, based on the interactions that we've been having with.

C

Businesses we've been meeting with dozens and dozens of businesses over.

I

The last few weeks uh to really have time to sit down talk about the project and talk about what their businesses needs are for. Employee parking, customer parking, buyer parking truck deliveries and also activation on the right-of-way.

C

F

C

I

Conversation as well as we want to start the conversation about what parking regulation changes we might look forward to have during our construction time frame. So during construction, the on-street spaces on Main Street are going.

C

To be unavailable at.

I

Various different times, and it can't be expected, based on the way our network is currently assigned, that those side streets or some other places are going to just absorb that loss velocity of parking. So we have strategies.

C

I

Working on that do require regulation changes, so we will start interesting, ideally next month, it's a lot to bring forward, um and you know you also have other things going on. So that's our.

K

Goal but if I miss it there's.

I

Also May uh this office might shift by a month the following month. After being able to start this introduction and essentially give a pretty substantial combat period for people to react is to come back and start concluding someplace. We do want to conclude.

K

The Downtown parking study in May.

I

That one I don't see shifting uh assuming we get to you in April, with a good amount of information, maybe start looking at effectuating. Some of the regulation changes that'll happen in the final condition, probably not all of them to still nail down, but there's some substantial change to capture, but more specifically, the temporary construction ones, the ones that I think that we can work fairly quickly and it'll also be a really successful model after this project out to bed.

I

So the last bullet, we are looking to bid the project at the end of June, with a contractor awarded selection around late August early September and likely a start of construction in November.

I

C

E

Kind of the super high.

I

Level, students.

A

Great thank you for that good stuff. um Let's.

F

Start uh on this end again, commissioner, Fox kick.

C

M

Well, thanks for the presentation and the report in our packets uh I loved reading, it so much detail so much data. It was really interesting.

C

M

I read a lot in the packet about one of the strategies or recommendations being wayfinding and signage to our garages and I. Think that's super important, but that, like that, just can't be the only thing that we do to drive people to use them and I know you mentioned changes in pricing I'm.

M

Supportive of that of you know, is there a way we can make on-street parking a little more expensive and maybe lower the rates in the garage to just get people into them to get them into that experience of parking in the garage if it's way cheaper, I um beyond that, I think there are other ways to sort of think about how we're identifying where capacity is and what what it is and what I mean by that is thinking about um I, don't know, I'm thinking about these bike counters that show you how many bikes have gone over a strip of space, and so is there a way to show like for a section of parking or for in the garages like how many spaces there are um I know that there are like crowdsourced apps, like I've heard of like something called parks and at Louisiana Louisiana, State University, which is like literally an app that shows you when people are moving from parking spaces just because they're putting it in an app and so I know thinking creatively about that real-time information, so that people can make the best parking decision possible um so yeah.

M

Those are some sort of initial thoughts um just.

M

um Yeah and the other thing, the other question I sort of had- and you mentioned this a little bit- is that Safety and Security piece I mean I've heard anecdotally, and you mentioned it like that people don't necessarily feel safe and secure using our parking garages, which is you know, really sad to hear um and I wonder if we have any sort of like qualitative information to sort of back back that up. I do want to note that the.

I

Employee wasn't parking at a public parking garage when they felt unsafe, but in our business owner meetings we are hearing from the.

M

I

More specifically with the downtown garage because of the downtown flight parking program that some of their staff had previously.

K

I

Less safe and just kind of stops trying I've encouraged a lot of them to try again with.

C

I

In the way that the garages are organized the way the staff is circulating, the garage we paid lighting improvements does feel different. You don't have study.

J

Data since we've made those.

I

Changes yet, though, okay.

M

Foreign yeah I mean those are sort of my all my thoughts and questions on this otherwise yeah I mean, like I, said: I really appreciated the the data and um the recommendation. The recommended future strategies also I think um a lot of them May make sense. You know maximizing.

C

M

Use of existing parking information technology, improving Mobility options in TDM- those are all important pieces of this puzzle. Also, so I just wanted to say that I think. That's all thank.

F

B

I agree with a lot that commissioner Fox uh relate to you that this is a very detailed.

K

Study and it's.

B

One of the best ones I've seen so I want you for that. I know that I participated. I can't remember how long ago it was in an unofficial study where we would drive around at night and count all the spaces, and we got something like 1300 spaces within a block of the downtown area that people were complaining again and I. I have to say that I've never not found Park.

C

B

Never been right in front of where I want to be, but a block away, two blocks away, um but one of the things one of the strategies that I I think we implemented was to increase the price of parking in Downtown, the the downtown metro area.

B

If you want to call it that to and and expand the enforcement for that to try and dissuade employees from parking there, but it sounds like there's still parking there and I guess I would ask this I, don't know if you have data on this: are employers paying for that parking or giving some sort of subsidy for it.

I

Not in the uh conversations that I've heard so far.

C

I

Of them are paying their employees really really well. I met with.

B

A business and that's nice, the.

I

Restaurant owner that makes sixty thousand a.

B

Year, good tips.

I

Property owners that are like yeah.

E

We have this parking lot, but I know of six employees that park out front on Main Street all day long and.

B

Then you're never going to be able to get all of the people by making, and you can't make it so priced high price that a normal person can't park there.

O

We don't want it empty right.

B

Right and and one of the things and I don't I know that it's been looked at and I, don't know how deeply it's been looked at is to try and either incentivize or I. Don't know if you can force employees to park in underutilized lots and then give them Transportation options to get to the to their employee.

B

E

Know where they work.

B

E

B

Looked at that, no.

C

Can you I mean.

I

It's probably not part of the scope, the TDM measures that uh the Ops work can't study.

I

Flat out City total change that permitting doesn't trigger it. That's new.

C

Work does that is very early.

C

G

Do have free employee parking in the underutilized downtown garage, but they still choose to park. The yeah I mean we're trying to create a financial incentive to drive the people who know the downtown the best, which are the folks who go downtown every day to utilize the spaces that the the more infrequent visitors to downtown don't know so we're trying we've got more to do. Yep.

B

And that's the age-old problem you can try as hard. You can and there's still going to be a challenge for it. Unless you actually prohibit that's right, people that work.

I

There and then one of the challenges is that the downtown Employee Program is very specific to service.

I

Correct not necessarily.

C

Always fold the highest, paying.

I

Positions that our city I would like to highlight, you know when we implemented the smart readers who changed our rates and changed that structure. It was eight.

K

Years ago now, yeah.

M

I

That study came with a lot more recommendations that we we didn't Implement, because the first couple years were hard. It was a lot of change for Burlington that hadn't happened a long time and then there was a camping thing, um but it does feel like we're right at that right time that some sort of time limitedness in the core which the smart leaders don't have, they pay their meter. They sit there and they are happy enough today, at the dollar 15 hour.

B

And well one of the things that my previous position is. We actually removed all meters on campus and we made it all the mobile payment system and that created the ability to section it so that I'm sorry, you've got a 30 minute parking allocation. Here you cannot increase that and then you can't even move to another area within that zone or.

K

You'll be taking it.

B

So it I, don't think we're there yet, because I had a lot, I got a lot of flack from what you're making it so that only one way can.

K

Pay it and we did find other ways to help supplement.

B

People that maybe didn't have a smartphone could use the the app, but so another thing that I wanted to mention too, is and wayfinding is- is extremely important. I think we've made good improvements in the city, um there's always room for more Improvement, but if you don't have spaces available for people all the way finding the world, because it's just going to point them to a full space that the idea that commissioner Fox brought up about having some sort of ability to tell where is the best place to park?

B

Where am I going to find a space. Unfortunately, in our climate you can't put those little hockey puck sensors under you, know six inches of ice in some cases and be able to to actually read it. But if there's ways to do it again, if it was a way to move to a mobile payment system, that can tell you whether the space is being used at any given time, and that can give you the data that you need, which might be able to somehow be tied to an app that tells them.

B

If you come over here, there's a space for you.

I

I know Jeff, uh as you heard, it's very creative uh you know presented internally the switch over of the payment systems and the percentages that are going from the cash or car to uh Park Mobile, which is the city's app at the moment, and it's an increasing number. Every month there is more and more of our Revenue. That's that system so on street from Main Street when it gets redeveloped will be kiosks, so the meters themselves will go away.

E

um With a kiosk with a result.

B

I know that that it actually saved us money when we did away with coin operated feeders, because just the fact that you have to send somebody around and then in many cases, especially if there's a lot of Revenue, you have to hire law enforcement to be security when you bring it to the bank and do deposits and all those kind of things it it actually saved us like I, don't want to throw a number out because I'm being.

C

Recorded but it saved.

B

Us a large cell, probably somebody's wages for a year bye.

B

Yes, yes, definitely enough to do that. So that's all.

F

B

N

Right um so in Northampton, Mass I think um director, Spencer I may have forwarded this to you a few years ago, my daughter's in college there and on their public parking um pins. What are those big? You know big signs, um it'll say public parking and there is a digital readout that says 254 spots, um so I know that costs money, but that piece of way finding, um that's, maybe you know, kind of more city-owned as opposed to an app because I need to have the app and then you're. Like my father, you just.

B

Drive around um all those old people are.

N

um So so you know the better way finding to direct folks there, but I think I, I'm gonna um Talk, mostly about this, the safe and secure car Parks.

N

um You know you can collect all the data that says like we have this parking, but no one's parking here unless we actually just start looking at some of the qualitative pieces of. Why are you not parking there and asking like this is often a gendered thing, often an age thing so where women wear children where um elderly people feel safe is then other people will feel safe? So you know I, look at I. Think of you know the lake. What is it isn't?

N

It now called the downtown garage um where I was kind of most recently and um it needs it needs better figuring out in there kind of where you're going, what direction you're heading where's, the exit to Bank, Street and so forth.

N

um That helps one feel comfortable if you know where you're going instead of looking around um also like I think about um the car park at the hospital, the medical center. Have you been there lately, you know how they have. So it's also just moving around as a human in a space for vehicles where it's dark and people are moving backwards right, um and so they have. You know it's just pain on the ground.

N

They have kind of those dotted line areas that kind of tell you where it's just a little bit safer to walk and where you can cross, not that everyone follows those, but if they're lines on the ground, most humans will tend to kind of walk in or near them.

N

um So I think looking at strategies like that that is, you know in hand, safety feature where you know you're. Just like do I you know, am I walking between cars, um so I think looking at some of the you know, kind of qualitative research on um getting to what is a safe and secure uh feeling in a car park would also help. If you think about some of the service workers who are those service workers, what time are they leaving their work?

N

um And that might be why they're parking on Main Street all day long, because you know at 11 o'clock at night, 12 o'clock at night, Whatever Whenever. Their shift ends that parking lot could be fantastic, but if the journey from their place of business to that car park um feels sketchy, then we as a city have a problem not only for that worker, but also for visitors. So these are kind of bigger systemic things, um but um that all my little soapbox done um love the um love.

N

The research on this and I'm also one of those people who knows there's plenty of parking downtown, but we need to point folks to it and keep a TDM on the horizon. Thanks.

F

Thank you uh wrap around here to commissioner damiani.

K

Sure um so the sort of impetus for the study is the main street reconstruction project and I was just curious as to why sort of the largest private parking lot at the bottom of Main Street, the Main Street lending parking lot wasn't included in the study.

I

uh So in talking with the property manager, foreign.

I

There are a lot of people who are still holding this.

K

Office space leases for parking and they're being paid so Property Owners managers are less motivated because they don't want to be in violation of their contracts.

K

Yeah, it's just unfortunate, I mean I, see every every weekend, they're charging, sometimes twenty dollars for somebody to park there for the entire day um I mean I, wouldn't pay twenty dollars to pay there for the day but or park there for the day.

K

um But it's just an unfortunate that that's I know it's sort of outside of that even five minute walk shot, but it's right there at the end of this quarter that we're talking about um so um other than that uh I think with the renaming of the Lakeview and College Street parking lot to be downtown. I think it'd be great. If the document references that I.

G

Think it references.

K

Downtown, maybe in the maps but college and Lakeview in the text, um so I think just making sure yeah. That's what I figured yeah.

K

um Yeah and then, with with the downtown garage um I, think as we sort of talk more about pricing or other strategies to get people into the parking garage, I was sort of just thinking about that one. That's seems to be the largest and most underutilized parking garage we have in the city, especially in this core.

K

Most parking garages are on flat surfaces, so people typically don't want to go all the way to the top and they want to go on the first two floors, but for that parking garage, most people are probably heading towards Church Street, so the the sort of top two floors typically get filled first, so just trying to think about maybe uh I don't know. The bottom half has a different pricing structure than the top half or something to that effect for that parking garage. As we talk about pricing structures.

O

K

Like by themselves right um and then the last thing too I think in terms of the sort of safety for folks going from the downtown garage.

K

um This is still many years out, but I think as the street Network across City Place gets developed and CityPlace itself gets developed. That certainly is hopefully will improve the the safety along that quarter for folks walking from Church Street or to to that parking garage but yeah, but that that's certainly a long ways away so I know, there's certainly immediate fixes, I, don't know what can be done in a construction zone along that quarter to be done, but.

I

I

Is the construction of 789 fine is blocking one of the major routes.

C

I

Anything happens to me at least everybody, uh so you know that connection right now has been seen.

L

I

E

K

That's all I had.

F

Okay, thank you. Montana.

L

C

L

This is uh amazing data at like so uh I guess. Occupancy was acid everywhere in in that downtown core at 10 o'clock, twelve o'clock, two o'clock, four o'clock and six o'clock with n of two weekday weekends.

O

And all of my staff and to other folks from the city all to work on it. It was a huge undertake on 95 degrees.

L

L

Right on I may have ran into you uh one day this summer and I was kind of wondering what you were doing uh yeah, and this is 67 parking spots that are going to be affected.

L

Right right on I, don't know if that's the Doomsday scenario, but the one where you assume 40 percent upward, where there's net there's no uh occupancy at all in the marketplace. Garage and there's still 200 to 300 uh parking spots available within that five minute. Yeah yeah radius is that.

O

That sounded about right, that's an unlikely scenario, but we still wanted to make sure that if the parking demand did go back to pre-covered numbers- and that means all of us who are enjoying that work-life balance from working from.

C

O

A couple of days a week don't have that anymore that that demand could all come back. So we wanted to test for that doomsday scenario as you label it.

L

L

So who asked you to do this again in in 2022 like well.

I

Generally, most of the business Community GBA Church Street Marketplace a lot of the businesses just wanted to ground truth. We talked about those of.

C

Us that are a little bit more invested in parking.

I

You know we believe that there's parking, we know that there's parking available and a lot of people- it's not their business, to know parking, it's their business to know how to sell something and they've asked us to graduate.

L

Again, it's been a while, since we've studied it, it was a pandemic. So it's one of the reasons for the update.

L

How much do you Bill an hour.

C

L

Mean you have to share that, but, like the the total, the total price of the study would be a good piece of information to know just for a.

C

L

Record oh yeah paid about ninety thousand dollars to be able to.

I

Do all of the static election update this analysis, uh I would say: we've learned more than just a proof that we have available parking from this, which is there's some really amazing information in here as a really student, also helping with what we do from there forward.

I

It's also tied into some other a very adjacent approximate work. It's probably bought down some of the data collection, that's necessary response to the Battery Street Corridor. So it's not in vain. This project had the ability to afford it, but.

L

Not at all like this, this is it's just good science, good engineering and uh I hope we could we like, as a city right, not just the businesses that are kind of using our all the tip money to get. This kind of thing uh could think think these ways about other problems that we could be solving together and.

F

L

F

Thank you, commissioner. Overby.

H

um I want to Second uh all night's cheer, O'neal babanka's comments um about the safety things, so a lot of what I might have suggested. You've already been brought forward, and um also commissioner dominiani's questions as well. So everybody's asked some of the things that I would want to ask. However, I did want to um emphasize your comment about the problem with the availability of private off-site parking and I know that it's been I, don't know if it was well.

H

This director Spencer was in, but you were director at the time we we went through this inventory of the Downtown parking off Street and on Street, maybe that was in 2015, but the intent was to work with contracts with private uh parking.

E

H

Know some parking lots and uh and when, when we look at the paper that you the document that you have on page 19, that really shows the ownership uh of the public ownership and the private uh uh it it. It's. It's very revealing of what happened uh years ago.

H

um When the there was so I'm, I'm, curious, um I, know. You've you've mentioned the fact that there needs to be maybe some work done to negotiate with the people that have their private Lots managed by the the private company who is now managing them, which is in the document um and I'm wondering if you have asked the people that own the private Lots, the the terms and the duration of the contracts that they currently have with the private vendor that they are currently using.

I

So uh uh so DPW is engaging one of our Community Partners. To start these conversations we're going to start with the parking management company.

K

I

Just to talk about the data that we found the holes that we found in the system that don't seem well utilized, hoping to have a proactive competition about their rates, the structure facilities so that they can then go back to the property owners. I have met with a few of the property owners that do use. You know another service to manage their lot offered our service, as we've recently uh developed it during the minuski corridor project. They weren't quite ready to move over, yet they seemed generally satisfied with what was being provided.

I

But this is a lot that it's well utilized what I've met with so far.

K

C

We've not met with a lot of them.

I

Yet but it is on our our docket to do yeah Chapin thanks I.

H

I think I I just think it was um it short-circuited the work that the commission was doing and that the public works department was doing to have that situation happen. And so, in my opinion, somebody needs to look at the duration of the contracts, and it sounds like uh that is something that somebody is going to be doing um right because I, I really and- and you mentioned the north Winooski parking management study and- and we know it's the same sort of problem that there's plenty of parking off-site off Street.

H

um But there are challenges to the the utilization of that by people and the fact that you've developed this program where you would be willing to do the work for 80 cut to the owner of the property and do the city. Does the work. um I I think we just really have to keep finding ways to uh to to release that off.

H

You know off-site parking lot uh and and so so having it available and not four dollars an hour um which is another deterrent to visitors that Park and then they go to the kiosk and they're shocked. And then you know bad bad things uh spread around about the experience, um so I just think. It's very helpful that people might want to look at the page 19 of your study. That very clearly shows the magnitude of that situation, and hopefully that can be you know dealt with in the future.

H

I know that it related to one of the other things that you had pointed out. Also in the document page 18 about the clarity of the signage and by having this mixture of City, signage and and the you know the signage words there's you know, there's there's bags over a kiosk and then there's no bag, and it's like it's really horrible for people that are visitors and they're, the ones that probably get get stuck in those lots and don't realize it, and then they're um I have heard some nightmare stories about that.

H

um So the other questions that I had you had mentioned. Obviously the multimodal links to parking facilities. Do you have um suggestions because it of of what you mean by that when you're talking, let's say how to get from the Downtown parking garage to Church Street.

O

Yeah I mean I, think some of the things are really simple and are just a matter of actually one of the other Commissioners brought it up when you're in the garage, I I might not remember if I've gone up too late levels which direction I need to head to to get to Church Street like how do I get directed there. Where should I go? Where are the stairs that'll get me to the path that gets me there, and then some of the other issue is those connections that Laura mentioned.

O

That may not be there or may not be as desirable, and that could be the Safety and Security piece, but that could also be a condition of the sidewalk that should also just just be how circuitous it is. So it's really thinking about what that whole trip is, and how do we make it so that I get out of my car and again as a woman or young children or whatever it is. It's very clear to me, where I need to go and I feel very comfortable taking beverage.

H

Are there companies that have expertise in doing that kind of uh work with parking garages that you're familiar with I.

O

I would really fit into the um basically how the street scheme is put together and how smooth it is. Is it accessible by everyone? um Is the lighting correct? It's really it's more like a stolensky Architects um technical position. So, yes, it is certainly something that can.

H

Be done well, I mean I'm, no parking expert, but you know things to me and it's been an issue with me: the way finding from the Downtown parking deck to Church Street, and how do you get there and that sort of thing now that you walk along between the bank and the uh the current Burlington High School is, but it just feels like we're. Not we just don't we don't have the expertise of creativity. I mean you know like is it lighting? Is it paint? Is it um uh you know?

H

I know, I I just feel like we're struggling with the use of that parking deck because of the and there's other factors too.

H

I think the the height of it, the ceiling height, is low, uh and that has the first that has us that has a that makes it feel unsafe as well, but it really- and we can't fix that, but we could maybe we could maybe do like I, don't know if you've ever been to Chicago airport and you go through those walkways that go between one terminal to the other and there's lights and music happening um again.

H

You know I would think that I think that we need to be very Innovative about it, but it's but but who's going to do that, and it's like is that a company that does that kind of thing otherwise, or do we incorporate artists to come in and do that and I know? We've we approved recently the high school using the top floor of that for a portion of their outdoor education um set up.

H

So you know, obviously the commission here isn't going to do something like that and you're not going to probably do something like that, but I don't think we're ever going to succeed with getting that parking that that parking garage uh being a pleasant, safe feeling place.

H

Unless we really do something creative and have and the multimodal thing is you know some, should we have some sort of trolley? Should we you know so that you don't have to walk that? You know that's another option or or those little pedicab things. You know another option, um I just feel like we're, not we're we're. uh We keep circling around that problem and um and I and I would like to find a way to better. You know come up with a solution to that.

H

It's not related to the Main Street project, but it's related to what's been a problem here for 10 years or more than 10 years. um You you actually mentioned also related to that the Amtrak connections project. What is that.

O

H

Well- and it relates to the fact that we now have the downtown Transit Center for the buses, a distance away from the train um and the parking, um and so so we really don't have a. We don't really have these things connected for convenience of a a person visiting coming up on the train or or coming in on the bus and trying to get to the train.

H

um So it just more things to think about. um Let's see, I think answered that question.

H

One of the things that you did mention um was that the uh that there should be that implementation of the comprehensive parking, signage and wayfinding system before the Main Street construction is that something that is actually in the work so that we can actually see that happen, uh so that people and I think your guidance was that so that people get used to parking in these alternate places, so they're already ready and have no problem with it when all of a sudden, their favorite little angled parking spots not available on Main Street is that is that going to happen?

H

I mean? Are you are we able to do? That is. Is that going to happen, or is the timing of it such that that guidance cannot possibly happen? I.

G

Think some construction related signage and some other way finding tactically can happen. A large kind of publicly funded Grant funded project at this point doesn't have time to be implemented before November, but the interest is absolutely to do something to enhance connectivity to new spaces and New Lots yeah.

H

Just to move people, as you say so that we have less pain because it'll already be a familiar uh operation.

I

A little bit you know, our finding is previous program that we had was a federally funded program. It afforded a teal sign with the standard P logo so that people could identify it, but that.

O

Funding source was limited.

I

To only directing people to public park, so we couldn't even have a sign. That said, you know 5 PM standard P, you know, try the slot or try that lot or turn left here. The Tiff funding isn't as limiting as that it's. So we have the opportunity to add that information to our existing wayfinding system to help people find some of those high capacity off Street, privately owned properties. Where there's there's no language out there right now and they're. Clearly,.

H

Creating their own well, this could be an opportunity for a couple of the lots that would be in a good position to take over this 67 loss or whatever up to six, because that's where you could get that private lot owner to come up with a plan right now for this construction project- um and you know, you'd- have to have to work with the private vendor, that's managing the parking, but uh to find to follow your guidance.

H

I think that would be a good thing to do like, like you recommend, um so that people are not. You know, people they're practiced, they get the practice and they might like better whatever.

H

um This is nothing to do with the um changing subjects here, but can you provide an opera, an update on the Ravine sewer uh project.

I

So the Ravine sewer portion of the work uh has a preferred alignment. That's been identified. There is a document on the great streets website that can give some information about that.

I

I

Is all right, so here is the great streets homepage. It has a scroll link Marquee. If you come down, uh you'll be able to find it goes. There's the Main Street bubble.

C

M

C

I

And actually you're going to start to see some of this parking information show up on the page, but we have generally the most recent published information about where the Project's at so top of the list is all about water and sewer. There is the information on the Ravine sewer, there's also information on just the water main and Sewer main Replacements throughout the entire Corridor that went out to property owners in the Ravine sewer I was a little finicky.

I

For me, there is a map of the entire project, Corridor of the water and sewer replacement, and then this dashed line.

I

Shows our alignment of the routine sewer that'll come behind the fire station out to Main Street down Main Street to the corner of Church Street and then from Church Street to Maple. It essentially is interrupting all of the flow in the pipe that comes from north of this location and moving it within our City's right-of-way.

H

I

The existing path, which cross cuts City on a diagonal picture path.

C

Through here, going underneath properties.

I

Intersecting buildings.

H

So yeah: well it was originally the railroad bed. It.

I

Wasn't everything it is a natural review and.

H

It's a six foot tunnel, basically yeah, then, and it goes from the corner of College Street down down to where you're connecting in farther down.

I

From where we are interrupting it at the fire station, it has a directory Northeast if they're out towards the interval.

H

But the other direction, the other direction.

I

The other direction, the Southwest we are interrupting, it So, eventually, these properties. This is how the Tiff funding is is able to pay for it. These properties have an opportunity to redevelop in a way that they never could before. With this piece of infrastructure flowing underneath the.

K

I

Will be a 48 inch diameter pipe? That's when it's necessary to take it's current flow in.

H

That that's large, that L, whatever L-shaped thing.

I

H

You thank you for that. I think um I know the question that that I looked at you one question of how much how much of our Tiff borrowing have. We already um done well, just yeah. How much have we borrowed? Obviously you're spent you're borrowing as you spend, but how are we doing with.

I

That, let's hurt all of its debts so far, so we've incurred 30 million dollars of debt, that's sitting in our holding company.

H

As we spend it down and is the are the interest rates that we see happening everywhere, have you were you able then locked in okay? So we don't have to worry about the that all right, I.

I

Think it was a fairly reasonable rate. It was a reasonable deal for the city. um So while we borrowed 30 million dollars through, however,.

O

I

Works out, uh we actually effectuate 34 million dollars of money that we.

H

Do you know what the interest rate is I, usually multiple rates depending on issues or something find.

I

That for you, but.

H

No I, no I I know I was looking at it originally when it was being considered so I sort of know what range is, but I'm just curious with all the changes in interest rates. I was curious. How well we did.

I

Solidified that in August of last year, oh.

H

So it was hard to know hard to know now.

I

Before chaos, yeah.

H

Yeah all right, I think that's covers the questions that I had the other ones were absolutely covered well by the other Commissioners. Thank you.

F

All right, thank you.

A

uh Yeah I have a couple questions thanks um one can you Define or help me understand how how you count turnover as a percentage sort of get the concept of like high or low but like what is? What is a percentage.

O

The percentage of vehicles that turned over in two hours, and so we went around and noted plates every two hours. We did it by GIS by block so that we would even catch those people and understand if they. If they appeared twice in the study or on different streets, then they aren't it's still a turnover, that's still moved and so that spot on that street did turn over. But it's so that's the percentage of spaces on that block that turned over in that period. So.

A

Probably from the beginning of two hours to the end of two hours, how many spots of yes, something.

O

Different okay.

A

Regardless of whether it's a three-hour zone or four.

C

Hour zone or whatever.

A

Okay, thank you. uh Yes, a lot of great stuff there I would Echo the enthusiasm and those questions from my fellow Commissioners here. I feel like there's. You know in terms of like the data accounts and stuff is very solid.

A

um Some ideas for the potential other layers of data collection come to mind on like pricier or harder things that would have blown this particular budget.

K

A

I feel like there's an opportunity for like the marketing angle there or some Outreach to current or prospective users there. So really the recommendations are of the flavor of like shifting our levers, potentially like charging a little more for this or charging a little less. For that, and uh you know, it'd be a great day, be sort of polling people one, unlike some of the user experience questions that have come up.

A

It's like how was your parking experience today like an open-ended like QR codes out there like on the Park Burlington website or whatever like what was your? What was the worst part of.

C

A

Experience that we could potentially help with or something um what was the best part, uh also another layer of that. You know I think.

A

Seeing quantitative studies in other towns that show that some business owners persistently.

A

Underestimate the proportion of people that get to their shops by non-private vehicles and overestimate the percentage of people that get to their businesses buy private vehicles um in seeing that from another time. That sort of makes sense anecdotally to me to think about a customer who maybe.

B

Had a poor experience trying.

A

To find a park spot trying to find their way out of a parking garage getting there, let's give anything from their mind: everybody's, like it's, a proprietor of business versus a customer that say had a pleasant walk to get there like just hopped off the bus, stop right in front of it and it didn't it's like now: they're, not really sweet. That's how it should be.

A

There's no trouble that they're not going in and like venting about that, so people don't get an earful and that it makes sense when I see that stuff from other towns. But I don't know if that still doesn't um necessarily carry a lot of weight with Proprietors in this town, but don't care because their perception is their reality.

E

C

A

In this um data collection and communication exercise, there might be angles there to sort of do some polling of those numbers for our businesses. How'd you get here today. How was your experience? Ask the shop owners? How do you think your people got here today? How was their experience um or what it's worth? I love the opportunities that this data sort of could be leveraged for another purposes and I I get. Certainly if um Vision director Padgett was still here.

A

He knows and I ask him every chance like yeah like where are we with real-time accounts and there's legal things they're still working to get there, but I feel like that could be a huge tool in unlocking more possibilities here like be.

K

Easier to have.

A

A number to put up on the sign of like how many spaces are currently.

C

A

And I know like years ago, probably P pre covet. Even the idea was loaded, uh somebody being able to look up before they drive from South, Burlington or Williston or whatever, like they sort of like reserve a spot or like know that there is a spot for them before they get there. I feel like all this sort of stuff can be unlocked by the having real time ounce to feed this, but these stat accounts, let's really go a long way in a very appreciative of that.

C

A

Yeah I think that's.

F

A

I've got thank you for the study. Thanks presentation, here's good stuff, uh let's check I, don't see anyone in the room for public comments. um Mr Golden. Could you do a quick check on the phone? Is anyone interested in speaking? It's public comment on this item.

D

Not at this time sure thank.

A

You that there's no action requested on this one but I do very much appreciate the update, sure we'll see you soon all right. Thank you.

A

Next item on the agenda item eight director's report.

G

Right thanks to staff for uh running the show tonight, it's uh first I've got a chance to weigh in on a few things. So um there is a parking ban tonight. You heard that from division director Jeff Padgett, while the temperatures have been warm today, they're going down to 22 tonight, all that wet snow is going to lock up. We wanted to clean up the city for safety, so uh please uh park off Street tonight. Parkway uh construction season is about to restart mid April as we get underway with our construction season.

G

uh The initial work will be on the rail crossings on Flynn and Home Avenue. There's some communication going out soon about uh closures, one-way traffic and the like in those areas. They will then move in later summer to Lakeside Avenue and Pine Street and stay tuned for more construction mitigation news on that front.

G

um We are also going to city council this coming Monday to the board of finance and then to the following Monday to the city council for our uh Paving contract, as we discussed earlier tonight, and also the sidewalk contract for this coming year. Pleased that we got competitive bids on both of those and uh looking forward to a good construction season.

G

Happy to answer any questions. Great.

A

Thank you. We'll um move forward to item nine. Our agenda, commissioner Communications, uh be here start with commissioner Montano. Oh loop around the other ones. It's.

L

Me yeah there's a ton of exciting projects, um certainly there's a parking focus at at meeting today um and I'm just kind of thinking about the other modes that people might be using to get into downtown and in particular to get into Church. Street and kind of you know if you're a visitor right. How how well can you maneuver around um Beyond just that church, Three core, so um I get I, guess I'm wondering uh maybe a brief Green Mountain Transit update regarding stuff.

G

Sure, yes, I think one of the important things to notice. While we spend a lot of time talking about parking, it's the mitigation of parking in order to unlock a lot of exciting, multimodal Investments, so Main Street. The six blocks, for example, will be the city's first uh dedicated off-street cycle tracks on each side of the street wider sidewalks. You know exciting storm water features, bus, shelters and the like. So I'm excited about that, and while we have to talk about how parking can be accommodated, it's in service of those multimodal goals.

G

Paving this year will um uh also have Pearl Street repaved on the upper section which will smooth out the bike lane. In that section, bike Lanes will be added to Plattsburgh Avenue, as you all discussed last year. So that's on uh the docket. We are trying to secure more grant funding for the north Champlain two-way cycle track that we've talked about for a number of years. You may have uh you know earlier in the meeting.

G

We discussed the fact that the go Bond General obligation Bond was not for as much as the city identified that we needed money for so we're trying to write grants to fund a lot of this work so that we're not using our precious limited general fund money so hoping that this year that we can secure some grant funding to do the Lion's Share of the work North Champlain because of the signal work at Manhattan and the concrete separation that we want to create it's around a half million dollar project.

G

It's not just plastic bollards and some paint. So, um of course, the Champlain Parkway project, which will be under construction this year will add the shared use path this year, all the way from Home Avenue up to downtown, so that will be installed this year as well as well as the sidewalk project construction that I referenced earlier GMT coordination. We have a meeting with them uh this week or next week. Is it this week?

G

I think it's next week with their planning team to focus on a number of coordination issues, one of which is now with our downtown being restructured. New city plays through streets, Main Street reconstruction, the cause tree shuttle has seen reduced headways and reduced ridership. It's probably time for us to look at how we route buses through our downtown. Where do we want to establish trunk lines and where do we want to improve the shelter experience have more higher frequency Transit so that we can really plan thoughtfully and not be back on our heels.

G

So I'm excited to do all this work. Bike Share is going to come back with a top-line company this year, we're in final negotiations with one of the leaders in the industry, so I'm bullish for this year.

L

All of that sounds so tremendous. It's a coming together of all of these things that, like yeah right right now, if I took the train into Burlington from say New York I wouldn't feel comfortable kind of maneuvering around on a bike. I rented, but you know within a few years maybe I would, and maybe a lot of people would, and maybe people would decide. You know what I don't I, don't need a car living here in Burlington and I.

L

Think listening to people and kind of seeing if that's the future, we want really really getting getting everyone's voices in that in that so yeah. Thank.

G

You great thanks for your support. Thank.

F

You sure damiani.

K

I think the only thing I had was around the Toyota is I was just curious as to how far along like do. We have a target number that we know that we're trying to get to and what percentage people have come in to get those and I was just thinking. I was reviewing right.

K

The tutor website, just for the kind of building that I live in in um I, think it mentioned that, once after May 1st, uh the recycling crew is going to put out little stickers on the bin as a reminder, but I'd be curious, if that's possible, to do sort of ahead of time now before May 1st, to sort of remind people just another way to get it in people's face.

K

You know, maybe even at the bottom, because that's sort of where I look when I bring my recycle bin up to the second floor of my building or up upside down wherever just um another, adding another place to to see.

G

It it's a great opportunity to thank our customer service team uh who I know is taking notes tonight across the hall. Doing incredible work responding to the large influx of people requesting toters ever since we sent out postcards to every uh resident in Burlington uh sales are quite strong. Our team in between plowing is delivering all the toters out. One of the things we're really trying to work through is educate a lot of the multi-family buildings to not get one small toter for each individual unit, but to get larger, toilets toters for the whole property.

G

uh It will not work if we need to pick up eight small toters at one parcel and then move to another parcel and have to pick up six toters. It's just we're never going to be able to do our work. So that's been a lot of work at the front. Try to educating people that similar to how you manage your garbage, there's one central point on the on the property and uh that's going to be what's going to enable us to uh to make this work.

K

Is that a requirement, or is that more education that, like a certain number of units, have to sort of share it.

G

It is a requirement in ordinance that a multi-unit property of a certain size needs to have a 65 gallon or greater toter, which is the middle or larger size. So our customer service team's been educating folks who reach out about that great.

K

That's all I had for today, all.

F

C

G

Like, oh, yes, we have Mr Golding who's.

D

G

D

I just wanted to add the uh the plan for the stickers is not to go out after May 1st. It's actually to go out um once the snow stops flying, hopefully in the next week, or so we have stickers in transit. They should be here at the end of the week and we plan on putting those on all of the existing blue bins during the next few weeks of pickups. So we'll try to be uh preceding uh the May 1st date by a couple weeks.

D

um So, in addition to the landlord Outreach postcards, um we've got the stickers coming soon and a social media ad campaign coming up soon. We've got advertisements in the bed bill, the water bill, the north Avenues and we'll keep plugging away and hoping to catch as many people as possible.

K

Awesome. Thank you.

F

Okay, thanks for that, Mr Fox.

M

I, don't have any comments this evening, um just thanks to DPW staff for the really detailed backup this week is awesome.

F

Good read all right, commissioner: Barr thanks.

B

um I only have one comment and in your email, Chapin or director.

C

B

You might you might have received here to looked at it already. The old East End is looking to try and do some things in their area and just for the greater knowledge of everybody here, yeah we're really trying to make it a safer place, and we've done some walk audits. We're working with AARP um working with Carson we're working a lot of different people. One of the things that I suggested to them is that, rather than come up with all these ideas themselves on traffic calming is to find out what.

C

B

What do you want done and what are the measures that are in the kit bag here that we can probably implement they're going after some funding, so we're going to have to see if there's creative ways for a neighborhood to help fund some of these things with public works, but that's if we could just get somebody to join. One of our calls would be great for, like yeah.

G

Awesome I, followed up with Mr Crowley today gave him yeah Dayton Crites who's, our new senior Transportation manager uh planner. So he's going to be Dane's going to be following up with Mr Crowley.

B

That's great I told him: I'd say that so awesome.

G

All right happy to support right.

F

Vice, chair O'neil, pavanco.

N

um Thanks for the the snow removal, I'm kind of liking, the wait until the snow finishes um uh falling before you call this the parking ban, um which I feel like in years past it there would be a parking ban and we would still get snow.

N

um I, don't know I feel like the cleanup seems to be um a little bit better. Overlake Park sidewalk could use a little love, throw that in there.

G

N

As I slog down here tonight, um no and I do um thanks to um Rob Goulding because on the February February 17th a couple days after our last commission meeting I got an email as a property owner. Did you receive recycling um tote in my email and I was like so just awesome, I think and of course there thanks, Rob and there are going to be people who are like what I didn't hear anything, but at least like we know we have hit.

N

um You know as many marks as possible. Aside from you know, just whacking people over the head with a blue head, which would would really be good public relationship.

G

Rob's gonna walk around Burlington with a sandwich sign right, Rob.

D

I'm open to it open to whatever we have to do to make sure people aren't out of compliance on anyone.

N

Great job thanks.

F

Thank you, commissioner. Overby.

H

All right, I I, wanted to just first thank the award to three NPA uh because they held a really nice uh session as part of their um meeting last Thursday, where they were talking about the the commissions and how the commissions work and they had a four different tables with different Commissioners at them, and it was really interesting to uh to participate in that as a public works. Commissioner, along with somebody at the table, was uh downtown.

H

The Church Street Marketplace commission, um but one of the things that came out of that was relating to Graffiti and who's responsible for that, so that that's a question I'm going to toss out I'm, not asking of an answer, but um I I appreciated that particular format that they had for everybody that sat on the table. It wasn't you know a presentation or anything, so that was really that was really great and all of you, um maybe they'll, do it again, and maybe some of the other Ward npas would be doing the same thing.

H

I think it was really an excellent way to get people to understand the commission system and what commissions are available and and how it works. How to apply, and particularly that things are going to turn over.

H

You know in May and June for another year right also I know I've communicated a couple times with director Spencer about the private plowing companies that are and I'm not sure if other people in the in the neighborhoods are having the same issue, but I had communication about the city's, probably doing a great job of getting the streets plowed or the sidewalk.

H

But there are people that are private, applying companies that are pushing this snow across into other people's driveway on the other side and I, don't know if there's a solution to that, but it feels like there's. There needs to be something done to help communicate with people that are doing a private driveway snow removal to help them understand. Apparently there is there's rules and it's a sort of another case of Education. What what can we do um and and I had people like more than one person once the first person said it to me?

H

I said something about it and oh yeah, that happens on Grant Street as well, instead of just Henry. The the last thing I was going to suggest and on the toters you might want to help people understand that they don't need to put the toter out every time every week. If it's not full, don't put it out, wait till you're when it's full uh I had yeah I, just think.

H

That's another way to help reduce the number of them out there that the city's machine, you know guys, have to pick up uh so I, don't know how you're going to communicate that, but uh yesterday was the was the pickup on my street, and it was obviously you know what the weather was. Looking like and I didn't put mine out and I thought is, you know, is that something that we can sort of help people understand to help help you guys out like so uh that's what I have to communicate. Thank you.

A

All right, thank you. Look on on the topic of toters I was uh got my postcard in the mail a couple weeks ago. Also I am a happy user of a toter. Currently I would just suggest another sort of a cost benefit here. If there's any way for.

G

The record Target.

A

Those mailings to the um the the doubt of the crew- that's you're, still looking to right off of the bins or um later communicates, but I know I, don't know where we are with our numbers of odor adoption, but yeah, but I do see the pickup trucks delivering them. Yes,.

A

Curious, uh the previous parking ban, uh Saturday May, March 4th, or so it was still over the school break. um Do you have a sense of like how that went? Was there a lot of Towing required or.

G

My recollection uh Mr Golding, is that it wasn't abnormal I think we towed over 200 cars, which is generally about what we're telling is that right, yeah.

D

I think it was I think it was well within the range of normal, maybe high-end normal. But if I recall, when we were doing the debrief, we didn't think it was unusual.

A

Right I was uh I'm, gonna open the train station that night, while the train gets in at about 10, when the parking ban kicks in the parade of tow trucks was quite impressive. I.

C

A

No idea that those kind of resources were brought to bear. Oh yeah, the line going down, Pine Street. It's.

F

Like 10 stocks,.

A

12 trucks, it was yeah, it was, but, as you mentioned, 200 Cars um of.

C

Course the operation is quite.

A

The yeah quite the thing, all right, another thing ahead of um sort of a World's colliding moment uh today, there's a geeky conference on a particular web development technology that I pay attention to and use. In my day, job and I was gonna attend in like something a topic. A talk caught my eyes like.

C

A

Prioritizing sidewalk repairs I was like oh that's, cool and I was like. Oh it's from somebody from RSG. Oh great.

F

A

They're starting to talk about the Burlington Vermont sidewalks I was like.

C

Oh all right so.

A

um World broadcast around the world this. This presentation today from an RSG staff, are pretty cool nice stuff um I'll follow up with staff done like specific questions there, but a general question is I, wonder how are we with getting that sort of stuff into our asset management system? The gist of that talk was doing this separate tool to support the ranking and decision making arounds when we're yes, preparing which sidewalks but like more generally, like our sidewalks into the asset management thing yeah.

G

They are getting in there they're they're. The study with RSG did get it into GIS, and so that geospatial platform really uh gives us a really solid base on which to do the activity scores which Laura uh senior engineer Wheelock has brought in the past layering. On top multiple things, how many public requests have we had to replace the sidewalk?

G

What was the objective condition through the RSG report and then um yes and then looking at the activity score of where it is and the level of use it gets to order to prioritize the work so I'm pleased with how we do that work. I, do appreciate the fact that you know not. Everybody is into the data the same way. We are and can wonder why their sidewalks not getting addressed.

G

So if people have concerns they're welcome to reach out to Mr Goulding myself and we're happy to answer questions. Okay,.

C

G

That data is directing over a million dollars of work this year and I'm, proud that we're doing that data driven process.

A

Yeah I'd love to see that objective data driven yeah decision making that's great. uh Lastly, just an announcement that a scoping study for Battery Street is kicking off, um I, think I'm sitting on that steering committee representing the Public Works commission. It's certainly well represented by Public Works staff as well one announcement there. There was like a committee meeting last week the week before upcoming in mid-april time frame. That will be the first public meeting around that I.

A

Don't have an exact date for that yet, but we'll get the um get the announcement of that shortly when we got it watch for that.

G

Thank you for picking up that ball that I dropped in the director's report.

A

You got it uh nothing further from my commissioner communication with that. um We'll move forward to item 10.

C

On our agenda, it's.

A

Our next meeting date, April 19th. We have a motion from commissioner excellence.

A

We have a second from Vice, chair and Eva Banco. Is there any discussion around that all right, all in favor say.

L

E

J

E

A

Any opposed all right we're adjourned, 907.

A