►
From YouTube: South Burlington City Council - 11/21/2022
Description
https://linktr.ee/townmeetingtv
Agenda:
Call To Order, 00:00
Agenda Review, 00:50
Public Comment, 02:04
Announcements and City Manager’s Report, 02:23
Consent Agenda, 18:15
Appointment Chittenden Solid Waste Board, 20:56
Public Hearing on Amendments to the LDR, 29:20
Action on Amendments to the LDR, 42:16
Education Impact Fees Ordinance, 50:50
Break, 1:55:26
Encampment Ordinance, 2:01:59
Delinquent Ambulance Billing Policy, 2:30:43
Ambulance Billing Rates Resolution, 2:34:40
Annual Report from the CCRPC, 2:37:31
Climate Action Plan Task Force Proposal, 2:54:56
Town Meeting TV Presentation, 3:43:09
Climate Change Resources, 3:57:03
Other Business, 4:00:36
Adjourn, 4:01:23
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A
A
C
Sure
so,
thank
you
all
for
being
here
in
the
room.
If
there's
an
emergency,
there
are
exits
on
the
rear,
but
on
both
sides
of
the
rear
of
the
auditorium
and
can
go
right
or
left
to
get
outside
for
those
participating.
Virtually
thank
you
for
joining
us.
If
you
would
like
to
make
comments
or
ask
a
question
during
the
meeting,
please
turn
your
camera
on
or
indicate
to
me
in
the
chat
that
you
would
like
to
do
so.
Otherwise
we
are
not
monitoring
the
chat
for
Content
thanks
very
much.
A
C
D
A
A
F
F
F
The
sbba
meeting
on
Wednesday
at
on
logic,
I
had
a
tour
of
on
logic
with
Roland
grinveld,
and
also
there
was
an
excellent
presentation
by
the
CEO
of
dynapower
about
the
future
of
energy
and
how
Dyna
power
sits,
kind
of
in
the
middle
of
that,
with
their
products
being
Central
to
battery
battery
energy
storage
systems
and
so
really
interesting
story
and
I
really
enjoyed
that
and
enjoyed
the
tour
of
onlogic
as
well,
which
they're
moving
to
that
new
frame.
Building.
A
F
The
current
the
current
one
right
and
they're
going
to
move
entirely
to
the
new
one,
I
guess
and
then
and
then
see
what
happens
with
the
old
building
so
but
they're
they're
tight
on
space,
I
heard
about
supply
chain
issues,
I
heard
about
supply
chain
issues,
you
know
in
impeding
design.
You
know
you
know,
processes
or
new
new
systems
right
and
but
you
know,
a
lot
of
people
are
caught
up
in
that
problem.
Right
now.
So.
A
F
G
It's
such
a
great
reminder
of
why
we
do
what
we
do
and
it's
so
affirming
and
if
anyone
would
like
to
volunteer
for
the
BCA
I
highly
recommend
it
I
also
attended
the
sbba
meeting
with
and
heard
the
speech
from
Adam
from
dynapower.
It's
pretty
remarkable
what
we
have
in
South
Burlington,
between
dynapower
beta
and
on
logic.
Three
amazing
tech
companies
right
here
in
South,
Burlington,
gmta
meeting.
We
got
the
news
on
the
assessment.
G
It's
an
increase,
not
a
shocker
about,
looks
like
about
a
10
percent
increase,
fifty
three
thousand
dollars
more:
what's
driving
it
labor
right
cost
of
laborers
as
a
primary
driver
of
it.
These
drivers
are
working
overtime,
just
like
our
firefighters,
because
there's
not
enough
drivers
and
police
officers
and
those
have
added
costs.
So
it's
hitting
everyone,
but
that's
what
we're
looking
at
is
a
draft
budget
assessment,
more
discussions
to
follow,
but
I
can
break
down
what
all
that
is,
but.
G
So
so
our
total
assessment
is
nearing
six
hundred
thousand
dollars
per
year,
two
other
small
notes
or
two
other
things,
which
is
the
committee
for
common
area
dogs
met
and
the
discussion.
That
was
some
of
the
discussions
we've
had
in
the
past,
but
I
just
want
to
lift
them
up
here
in
this
meeting
for
anyone,
that's
listening,
which
is
still
the
need
to
address
the
problems
at
feral
Park
to
monitor.
What's
going
on
at
Wheeler
education,
about
cleaning
up
after
your
dogs,
it's
because
it's
expanded.
G
It's
also
provide
the
opportunities
for
dogs
to
go
where
the
humans
aren't
and
and
then
there's
been
wonderful
volunteers
that
have
helped,
but
certainly
people
need
to
take
care
of
their
dog's
mess.
But
one
of
the
things
that
we
really
do
need
to
take
care
of
is
where
the
posts
came
out.
When
we
expanded
the
park
from
the
initial
footprint,
there
are
still
holes
left
from
where
those
posts
came
out.
G
Those
need
to
be
filled
as
soon
as
possible,
because
someone,
a
young
child,
could
put
their
leg
in
there
or
a
dog,
certainly
and
they're,
about
18
inches
deep
and
they
all
need
to
be
filled,
and
he
can't
really
because
the
Earth
is
rather
Frozen.
You
can't
just
collapse
it.
You
need
some
fill
and
then
finally,
the
Fine
Arts
I
wasn't
able
to
attend
because
of
the
conflict.
The
Fine
Arts
committee
meeting,
but
I
reviewed
the
minutes
in
we
need
volunteers
for
illuminate
Vermont
on
December,
16th
and
17th.
G
It's
they've
got
a
fantastic
website
illuminatevermont.com
and
where
you
can
sign
up,
that's
Friday,
December,
16th
and
December
17th
and
they're.
Also,
we
saw
some
mock-ups
of
the
public
Art
Exhibit
that
they're
looking
at,
which
is
really
cool.
I,
don't
know
where
you
can
get
that
online,
but
I
have
a
PDF
copy
of
it.
But
if
anyone's
interested
contact
me
or
the
committee
of
Fine
Arts
cool.
B
Megan
yeah
well
I
also
attended
the
two
meetings
that
the
of
the
Committees
to
which
I'm
going
to
Liaison.
So
that
is
the
charter
Review
Committee,
as
well
as
the
affordable
housing
committee
and
nothing
specific
to
report
I
think
we
all
received
an
email
from
the
chair
of
the
charter,
Review
Committee,
Peter
Taylor
we've
been
listening
to
to
different
types
of
Mayors
and
as
well
as
the
city
managers
speak
to
us
and
it's
actually,
no,
the
city
manager
didn't
didn't,
wasn't
able
to
come
from
Montpelier.
B
A
I
was
out
in
Salt
Lake
this
last
week,
helping
my
daughter
to
negotiate
long
covet
and
the
effects
on
her
and
her
family,
which
are
significant.
It's
real,
it's
very
difficult,
but
you
know
she
made
some
progress
and
we
continue
to
be
hopeful
that
she'll
get
back
to
hopefully
where
she
is.
She
seems
to
be
better
emotionally,
which
is
given
some
of
the
local
news
that
was
made
me
feel
better
that
her
mental
health
was
a
little
bit
stronger,
but
I
did
while
I
was
out
there.
A
I
did
join
the
airport
Commission
meeting
and
financially.
The
airport's
doing
very,
very
well
we're
above
pre-covered
revenue
for
the
parking
garage
as
well
as
employment.
So
that's
always
a
positive
thing.
We
had
a
really
interesting
presentation
by
the
consultant:
who's
working
on
the
climate
plan
for
the
airport
and
he's
working
on
developing
or
identifying
the
Baseline
for
the
airport
and
different
activities
that
they
can
address.
A
They
do
have
some
access
to
ways
to
to
develop
that,
for
example,
they
can
find
out
and
will
the
number
of
gallons
of
a
jet
fuel
that
are
sold
or
consumed
going
at
least
out
of
BTV,
and
then
I
meant
to
bring
it
with
me
and
I
couldn't
find
the
little
piece
of
paper
that
I
wrote
it
on,
but
there,
but
I
will
get
it
to
you.
I
think
they're
posting
it
online,
but
there
is
a
a
website.
A
I
think
it's
managed
by
the
it's,
not
the
FAA,
but
it's
all
the
aeronautic
groups
and
you
can
identify
on
that.
How
much
fuel
Delta
uses
what
they're
doing,
for
example,
for
climate
change
activities.
So
it's
a
it
sounded
like
it
would
be
a
very
good
resource
for
people
who
really
want
to
identify
what
is
actually
happening,
maybe
not
necessarily
at
BTV,
because
it's
in
general,
the
Airlines
and
so
but
but
there
are
Air,
Lines
and
and
planes
that
come
into
BTV
that
are
using
a
a
new
kind
of
fuel.
A
Okay,
that's
and
I
worked
election
Eve
and
I
just
want
to
really
call
out
how
wonderful
Donna
was
in
designing
and
managing
and
providing
all
the
materials
that
we
needed.
You
know
you
read
about
other
states
and
the
concerns
that
are
expressed
about
how
things
don't
happen
correctly
when
people
are
voting
and
all
the
deniers
and
and
I
I
looked
around
and
watched
us
and
I
felt
that
we
had
incredibly
good
support.
A
I
assume
that
you
know
most
towns
and
cities
in
Vermont
have
similar
kinds
of
approaches
and
delivery
of
voting
and
it's.
It
seemed
incredibly
secure
with
an
awful
lot
of
checks
and
cross
checks,
and
it
was
just
hard
for
me
to
imagine
how
someone
in
South
Burlington
could
swing
the
election
in
some
devious
way
without
us.
A
A
C
H
Sure
yeah,
so
this
is
item
I,
think
6C
in
your
consent
agenda.
But
it's
a
feel-good
story.
You
typically
don't
associate
Insurance
renewals
with
feel
good
stories,
but
in
this
case
it
is
just
it's
outlined
in
the
memo,
but
back
in
2016
we
were
paying
1.1
million
in
our
annual
property
and
workers
comp
insurance
premiums.
H
Considering
the
city's
property
valuation
and
other
exposures
have
increased
by
25
since
then,
it's
just
exceptional,
you
don't
see
reductions
in
premiums
in
insurance,
and
so
a
lot
of
credit
goes
out
to
the
leadership
team
prior
Administration
Greg
yandow,
our
safety
officer
and
and
his
predecessor,
as
well
as
our
Safety
Committee,
that
we've
had
running
for
a
while
workplace
safety
is
a
culture.
It's
one
that
our
staff
here
is
embraced
and
anyway,
seeing
real
dollars
and
cents
results.
Because
of
that
so
really
exciting.
Just
wanted
to
highlight
that.
C
So
I
don't
have
much
else
to
add.
I
do
want
to
highlight
just
some
upcoming
meetings
and
events.
So
just
as
a
reminder
at
the
council,
we
are
meeting
next
Wednesday
November
30th
to
receive
the
feedback
from
the
Committees
on
recommendations
for
arpa
funding.
I
know,
they've
been
doing
a
lot
of
work,
pulling
together
some
recommendations
for
you
all
December
5th
is
our
next
regular
council
meeting.
We
will
be
presenting
you,
our
proposed
leadership,
team,
FY
24
budget,
and
we
will
have
three
public
hearings
that
night.
C
A
Okay,
moving
on
to
the
consent
agenda,
we
have
five
items
and
one
additional
one
on
disbursements
will
include
also
include
the
payment
for
Education
October
financials
receiving
the
renewal
award.
That
Andrew
just
spoke
about
approved
the
submittal
of
a
municipal
planning,
Grant
application
to
develop
an
equity
framework
for
planning
projects,
I
thought
that
was
interesting.
Reading
and
I'm
glad
we're
going
for
that
money
and,
lastly,
a
point
Marty
Gillis
or
Gillies
as
an
acting
zoning,
administrative
officer
and
acting
code
officer.
F
G
J
Folks,
Paul
Connor,
director
of
Planning
and
Zoning,
so
we've
reorganized
a
little
bit
so
previously
when,
with
our
prior
person,
Delilah
Hall,
she
was
officially
the
zoning
administrator
and
the
way
that
we
essentially
did
it
was
we
had
development,
review,
drb
type
projects,
and
then
there
was
a
handoff
to
say
and
now
Delilah
you
do
all
the
permitting.
From
from
that
point,
we've
looked
at
some
other
models
and
we're
looking
at
it
a
little
bit
more
linearly
so
that
somebody
who
starts
a
project
that
at
the
drb
sees
it
all
the
way
through.
J
So
that
creates
more
consistency
for
the
applicant
and
it
gives
more.
You
know
somebody
who
starts
a
project
gets
to
see
it
all
the
way
through
so
we're
doing
it.
The
zoning
Administration
each
person
is
authorized
to
be
a
zoning
administrator
and
so
we're
doing
it
more
by
the
lanes
of
the
large
project
that
you
would
start.
So
it's
not
exactly
the
same
position.
We've
reorganized
a
little
bit.
C
G
I
A
Any
imposed,
okay.
Moving
on
to
item
seven,
it's
considering
the
appointment
of
Allison
lazars,
lazars
I'm,
sorry
to
be
South.
Burlington's
alternate
to
excuse
me
to
the
Chittenden
Solid
Waste
Board
of
Commissioners,
here
too,
and
Paul
stabbler
yeah,
who
is
our
representative
so
welcome
and
I.
Thank
you
for
being
interested,
so
I
guess
we
need
to
just
do
a
little
interview,
okay,
yeah
and
I'm,
trying
to
find
it
on
my
oh.
K
A
K
To
your
mouth,
please
sure
so,
I
found
out
through
the
cswd
newsletter
and
there
was
a
call
to
anyone
who
is
interested
in
becoming
either
a
board
member
or
an
alternate
depending
on
which
Town's
head
positions
open
and
so
I
read.
It
thought
about
it
emailed
someone
there
got
a
little
more
information
thought
about
it,
some
more
and
said.
Well,
it's
an
alternate
position.
So
it's
not
the
the
full
shebang
and
I
am
I
feel
like
I
embody.
K
A
lot
of
what
cswd
cswd's
mission
is
so
I
thought
I
might
as
well
put
my
name
in
the
ring
name
in
the
Hat
to
be
considered,
got
connected
with
Paul.
Who
is
a
current
board
member
and
he
told
me
some
more
information
and
I
thought
it.
It's
something
that
resonates
with
me.
The
the
mission
of
cswd
and
a
lot
of
the
things
I
do
in
my
own
life
to
try
to
reduce
waste
and
live
a
more
green
life.
K
B
D
K
Me
out,
although
I
do
I
haven't
recently
done
this,
but
pre
pre-pandemic
I
was
part
of
the
waste
Warrior
program
through
Chittenden,
Solid,
Waste
district
and
through
that
program.
I
would
literally
stand
next
to
the
trash
and
the
compost
and
the
recycling
and
help
people
sort
their
waste
into
the
correct
bins.
Because
that's
something
that
I'm
passionate
that
passionate
about
that
I
wanted
to
help
educate.
F
You
know
but
I
know
where
I
work.
There
was
a
big
push.
You
know
seven
or
eight
years
ago
to
make
sure
that
that
recycling,
you
know
the
separation
was,
was
correct
and
and
actually
worked
for
a
while,
and
there
are
accomplishments
now
in
the
cafeteria,
but
I
passed
by
regular
bins
now
and
they're,
just
all
mixed
up
cans
and
trash.
And
but
you
know
you
do
what
you
can
so
I.
K
I,
don't
want
to
speak
forever,
but
through
my
work
at
dealer.com,
our
parent
company
is
Cox
Automotive
and
they
have
corporate
goals
around
zero,
Waste
landfill
and
carbon
neutrality
and
water
neutrality
and
I've
been
very
involved
in
the
zero
waste
to
landfill.
Piece
of
that,
and
so
I
have
done
a
lot
of
education
at
dealer.com
about
what
goes
on
which
bin
I've
actually
done
a
trash
sort.
K
But
we
were
able
to
find
out
how
much
of
our
trash
could
have
actually
been
recycled
or
composted,
how
much
recycling
should
have
been
trash
or
compost
and
how
much
compost
could
have
been
trash
or
Recycling
and
yeah.
It's
really
fascinating
and
you
see
patterns
and
it
can
really
help
with
the
education
piece
about
so.
K
They're
stitches
too,
oh
gosh,
it
depended.
We
did
this,
did
it
over
three
years
and
I,
don't
remember
the
specifics,
but
we
call
it
the
diversion
rate
and
the
diversion
rate
was
better,
certainly
by
by
the
second
year
actually
the
first
year
it
was
like
shell
shock
wow.
We
can
do
a
lot
better
and
then,
through
a
lot
of
education
and
in
making
some
simple
changes
like
we
can
compost
the
paper
towels
in
the
bathroom.
So
that
saves
a
huge
chunk
of
from
being
thrown
in
the
trash.
A
A
K
D
A
L
I,
don't
I
rarely
Miss
meetings,
but
occasionally
that's
unavoidable,
so
it'll
be
great
to
have
an
alternate
because
I
haven't
had
one
for
a
very
long
time,
so
I
just
again
I.
We
have
a
great
conversation.
She
asked
lots
of
questions
as
you
can
tell.
She
has
a
real
passion
for
it.
So
I,
just
yeah
I,
fully
support
that
so
well.
A
F
A
A
M
J
Just
so
briefly,
you
held
a
public
hearing
a
little
over
a
month
ago
on
October
17th.
At
that
hearing
you
had
received
or
prior
to
that
hearing.
You'd
received
one
piece
of
feedback
which
was
from
the
Vermont
Land
Trust.
There
was
a
clarification
that
they
had
had
a
little
bit
of
concern
that
they
would
like
to
advance
you
added
that
minor
language
clarification
via
the
City
attorney
into
the
draft,
which
creates
a
second
public
hearing.
J
A
A
E
So,
for
the
excuse
me
for
the
record:
Dan
Albrecht,
City,
resident,
Proctor,
Avenue
and
also
a
member
of
the
drb
I
was
just
speaking
on
behalf
of
myself,
not
my
employer
or
the
drb
or
anybody.
So
just
some
general
comments
and
and
Food
For
Thought
I
know
it's
late
in
the
game.
I
wasn't
able
to
make
some
of
the
previous
discussions
and
before
I
start
I
mean
the
process
met.
E
E
However,
the
proposed
expansion
of
the
TDR,
as
well
as
current
zoning,
fails
to
meet
this
principle
due
to
a
variety
of
reasons.
One
of
the
biggest
reasons
is
that
our
current
Transit
service
is
really
inadequate,
both
in
terms
of
frequency
as
well
as
the
number
of
routes
in
South,
Burlington
and
I
know.
That's
a
whole
separate
thing
about
the
funding
and
the
re.
E
So
you
know
we
we
don't
see
any
signs
of
future
Improvement
and,
and
so
the
transit
system
is
can't
meet
the
demand.
The
city
is
promoting
right
now
and
I
get
it
which
comes
first,
the
horse
or
the
card.
Or
you
know.
If
you
build
it,
they
will
come
Etc,
but
without
a
concurrent
effort
to
really
expand
transit
system
both
to
meet
this
TDR
concept,
as
well
as
the
climate
change
climate
action
plan,
then
it's
kind
of
a
misfit.
E
E
The
really
thing
that
jumps
out
at
me
and
again
I've
only
lived
here
20
years,
so
not
in
a
long
time,
but
the
proposed
a
significant
expansion
of
housing
density
on
Shelburne
Road
is
Mitch,
matched
to
an
outdated
assumption
that
all
the
jobs
are
in
Burlington
that
there's
this
old
pattern
of,
like
oh
everybody's,
going
to
go
going
up,
Shelburne,
Road,
Corridor
and
we're
all
working
downtown
I
mean
look
at
where
all
the
new
employers
are
it
just
it
doesn't
fit
and
stuff.
So
I
get
the
concept.
E
E
So
when
you
look
at
the
proposed
housing
density
expansion,
it
does
not
take
into
account
the
significant
decrease
in
jobs
and
resulting
commuting
patterns
in
and
around
the
East
portion
of
the
city
and
as
a
drb
I'm
mentally
familiar
with
our,
and
so
are
you
at
beta
on
logic
and
really
one
of
the
largest
employers
and
showing
no
signs
of
stopping?
Is
the
UVM
medical
industrial
complex
on
Tilly
Drive
I
mean
think
about
that?
E
So
that's
sort
of
about
the
tdrs,
the
other
things
are
more
like
budgetary,
but
if
you
think
about
any
increase
in
the
grand
list,
that's
generated
with
the
associated
residential
density
increases,
which
this
policy
is
promoting
above
the
base
regulations,
you
need
to
earmark
the
funds
from
those
extra
units
towards
increasing
the
bus
service
in
the
quarters
and
neighborhoods
from
which
those
increases
were
obtained.
If
this
hypothetically
comes
through,
you
would
see
a
significant
increase
in
traffic
on
Shelburne
Road,
which
is
the
indirect
you
know
it's
the
it's
the
other
side
of
the
coin.
E
You
get
the
density,
it's
good
and
hopefully
makes
Transit
a
real
thing
because
it
increases
demand.
But
if
you
don't
have
the
service
to
match
it,
it's
just
going
to
create
more
traffic.
We
don't
have
a
robust
system,
the
other
thing
to
do,
which
would
be
really
nice.
My
last
point
about
increasing
the
frequency
of
the
GMT
route
serving
South
Burlington.
It's
really
weird
to
see
this
climate
plan
with
lots
of
great
ideas,
and
now
you
get
to
the
implementation.
So
if
the
city
council
really
cares
about
this
increase
Transit,
it
helps
low-income
people.
E
It
helps
disadvantaged
communities,
it
really
targets
the
people
who
need
the
help
the
most
and
it
promotes
getting
cars
off
the
road,
which
is
what
we
all
want
right
so
anyway.
So
as
I
see
this
thing
here
just-
and
this
is
just
more
of
a
personal
comment-
you
know
speaking
as
a
Shelburne,
Corridor
resident,
Road,
court
or
resident,
it
would
be
nice
to
see
some
Community
assets
planned
and
Built
For
This
corridor.
E
You
know
you're
planning
to
put
a
significant
amount
of
growth
in
there
be
great
to
see
a
Rec
Center,
more
Parks,
more
playing
fields-
and
you
know
I've
been
beating
the
drum
about
this.
It
might
even
be
nice
to
fix
up
feral
dog
park,
which
we've
been
asking
for
for
a
couple
of
years.
So
I
appreciate
your
service
and
just
some
thoughts
about
it.
But
it's
like
I
say
it's.
You
got
some,
it's
a
good.
E
N
N
It
does
allow
flexibility
to
build
what
the
market
requires
for
that
could
allow
for
more
affordable
housing,
while
the
affordable
housing
committee
didn't
get
an
opportunity
to
review
this.
That
particular
change
was
encouraging.
The
requirement
for
getting
that
density
by
purchasing
does
add
costs
and
I'm
a
little
skeptical
if
it
does
incentivize
the
market,
because
you
know,
if
you
buy
a
certain
amount,
you
may
have
more
inclusionary
and
you
know
you're
just
kind
of
it's
another
layer
of
cost,
but
the
the
the
the
no
maximum
density
was
was
a
was
an
excellent
decision.
I
Okay,
that
changed
it:
okay,
Linda
Bailey
from
over
on
Larch
Road,
Chittenden
area,
all
right,
Chamberlain
area
Dan
had
some
really
good
points.
I'm
not
going
to
try
to
go
over
them
again
other
than
the
one
that
he
touched
on
about
building
should
be
going
where
we
have
the
water
and
sewer
that
type
of
infrastructure.
I
I
like
the
idea
of
getting
higher
density
of
homes
in
the
city,
I
think
it's
a
questionable
to
make
someone
Buy
from
somebody
else
to
be
able
to
do
it.
I
think
it'd
make
a
lot
more
sense
to
just
zone
for
the
type
of
density
that
you
want.
One
other
problem
that
I
have
with
the
way
that
the
transfer
Land
Development
rights
are
structured
at
this
point
is
that
once
those
Land
Development
rights
have
been
sold,
they're
sold
forever
forever
forever
forever.
I
B
B
B
You
know
I
I,
I'm,
aware
that
there
are
major
cities
that
have
many
many
more
lines,
but
they
have
the
population
to
make
that
a
viable
thing
too.
So
it
this.
You
know
these
changes
would
increase
population
and
I.
You
know
that
magical
word,
critical,
mass
I
think
is
something
that's
really
important,
for
you
know
reaching
a
level
of
funding
that
would
make
us
able
to
fund
services.
So
I
see
this,
as
you
know,
it
will
happen
as
the
need
increases.
B
I'm
not
here,
to
tell
you
otherwise
I
think
that
we're
all
aware
of
what's
going
on
in
the
world
and
we
don't
live
in
a
bubble
and,
with
you
know,
potential
changes
to
climate
in
areas
that
become
unlivable
we
will
likely
be
facing.
You
know
an
inflow
of
of
many
many
people
who
need
housing
and
I
think
we
have
to
plan
for
that,
it's
much
better
to
have
an
apartment
for
them
as
opposed
to
a
wooded
lot,
and
they
have
to
come
with
a
tent.
B
So
I
think
that
this
is
a
responsible
policy
and
I.
Don't
see
this,
you
know
as
the
end
all
I
think
that
everything
is
always
organic.
Based
on
what
we
see
you
know
coming
up
in
the
foreseeable
future,
so
I
would
imagine
that
things
will
change
as
time.
You
know
goes
on
and
needs
change.
So
I
see
this
as
a
good
step
for
now
I'm
ready
to
pass
it.
F
So
this
is
a
valid
way
for
people
that
own
land
in
the
Southeast
quadrant,
who
originally
told
that
they
could
conserve
portions
of
it
from
sending
areas
and
send
to
receiving
areas.
This
is
a
great
idea
to
enable
that
market,
so
these
people
can
further
sell
these.
These
tdrs
into
other
parts
of
the
city
that
are
on
the
transit
overlay
District,
where
the
buses
run
to
achieve
higher
density
for
residential
housing,
and
that
includes
there's
a
nice
block
down
there
off
of
Allen
Road,
where
you'll
be
a
50
density
increase
as
well.
F
G
Yes,
I'm
going
to
support
this
policy,
but
I'd
just
like
to
lift
up
a
couple
of
comments.
The
first
is
what
Tim
just
said,
because
as
a
former
drb
chair
I
was
running
the
show
when
we
were
sued
by
members
of
the
southeast
Squadron,
who
felt
that
tdrs
were
illegal.
They
are,
in
fact
legal
and
they're.
A
great
tool
to
conserve
land.
G
G
B
B
A
Good
well,
I
shall
support
it
too
and
I
don't
think.
I
can
add
anything
more
and
I
appreciate
your
comments.
Both
you
Dan
as
well
as
Linda
and
I,
think
you
have
some
valid
points
that
I
I
think
has
some
Megan
suggested
or
hopefully
will
be
addressed
and
they
should
be,
and
we
I
think
everyone
in
the
committee
or
the
council
supports
that
Paul.
Do
you
have
any
no.
O
I
just
wanted
to
say
that,
yes,
this
TDR
ordinance
is
not
perfect
and
we
certainly
didn't
want
perfect
to
get
in
the
way
of
done,
but,
and
there
are
ways
in
which
it
can
be
improved
in
the
future,
but
it
is
where
it
is.
What
we've
got
now
and
it's
it's
all
we
could
do
on
the
Planning
Commission
at
this
point.
So
I
appreciate
your
plan
to
approve
it,
but
it
can
be
improved
in
the
future.
J
Q
A
C
C
So
if
I
may
just
do
a
team
of
table
setting
and
then
pass
it
along
to
the
superintendent
as
well
I'd
appreciate
it.
So
you
heard
this
recommendation
from
the
school
board
on
October
17th.
We
also
talked
about
it
at
our
June
steering
committee
meeting
at
the
October
17th
meeting.
You
gave
us
some
direction
about
coming
forth
with
a
recommended
ordinance,
changed
implant,
Implement,
education,
impact
fees,
it's
the
policy
recommended
by
the
school
board,
and
this
and
the
superintendent
we've
integrated
your
thoughts
into
a
draft
ordinance.
C
So
I
thought
it
would
be
useful
for
you
all
to
hear
any
additional
table
setting
the
superintendent
wanted
to
provide,
as
well
as
an
overview
from
RSG
Jonathan
slason
on
what's
changed
since
the
last
draft
impact
fee
report
you
saw
and
then
our
City
attorney
and
planning
director
can
walk
through.
What's
actually
in
the
ordinance
pilot
hi.
R
Hi
Jesse
good
evening.
Everyone
thank
you
for
having
us
here
virtually
here
having
us
here.
If
you
will
figuratively,
we
have
been.
This
is
something
we've
been
discussing
in
partnership
with
Jesse
and
Paul,
really
just
trying
to
ensure
that
as
I
sit
through
this
development
hearing,
that
you've
just
had
ensure
that
we
have
high
quality
schools
now
and
going
forward
like
the
ones
that
we've
enjoyed
for
some
time
in
South
Burlington.
R
We
know
that
people
come
to
our
city
and
part
of
the
reasons
that
we
have.
You
know
these
through
strong
tech
companies
are
because
of
the
education.
So
in
order
for
us
to
do
that,
we
have
reached
a
point
where
we're
no
longer
able
to
add
students
to
two
of
our
elementary
schools:
Rick
Marcotte
Central
School
in
Orchard,
Central
School,
and
so
when
we
see
X
250
permits.
R
We
do
believe
at
the
district
that
developing
our
community
and
riches,
our
our
schools
and
our
community
and
and
the
education
of
all
of
our
students,
so
to
do
that.
We're
asking
for
the
council
this
evening
to
hear
this
first
ordinance
in
consideration
of
the
implementation
of
impact
fees,
which
would
help
us
to
pay
for
eight
zero
emission
modular
units.
R
R
They
are
something
that
a
committee
called
the
enrollment
committee
made
up
of
Educators
community
members
decided
to
they
brought
forward
to
the
board
this
recommendation
to
go
with
the
zems
rather
than
a
traditional
trailer
unit
or
something
similar,
and
this
cost
was
not
something
again.
It
was
not
something
that
was
budgeted
for
so,
as
we
know
right
now,
we're
seeing
High
inflation
rates
and
the
cost
and
everything
from
labor
and
materials
has
increased
significantly.
R
R
We
are
in
a
position
now
where
we
need
to
seek
impact
fees
to
pay
for
these,
we
will
go
out
to
bond,
to
pay
for
the
costs
and
the
impact
fees,
if
implemented,
would
pay
back
the
district.
They
would
cover
the
cost
of
the
zems,
of
course,
being
shut
off
the
moment
the
zems
are
paid
for
it
should
be
ordinance
go
through,
and
you
know
this
is
only
part
of
the
master
planning
that
we
need
to
do.
This
would
be
phase
one.
R
There
are
two
other
phases
as
our
students
age
through
our
school
system,
we'll
need
middle
and
high
school,
spacing
Solutions
as
well.
Those
haven't
been
articulated
yet
so
we
cannot
tie
impact
fees
to
them
at
this
time,
as
impact
fees
are
based
on
a
specific
mathematical
formula
based
on
actual
costs,
but
I
want
to
make
sure
that
we
keep
that
a
part
of
the
conversation,
something
that
we're
we're.
Having
discussions
about
at
the
board
level
are
developing
committees
so
that
we
can
make
a
you
know,
an
infrastructure
committee,
so
that
we
can
have.
R
We
can
be
in
a
position,
hopefully
in
the
near
future,
where
we're
not
in
a
reactive
space
like
we
are
now
so
I
say
that
to
mean
you
know,
I'm
in
a
position
here
this
evening,
requesting
impact
fees
so
that
we
can
address
Uber,
enrollment
and
we'd
like
to
be
in
a
position
going
forward
when
we're
talking
about
impact
fees
or
planned
development.
However,
here
we
are,
and
because
of
the
time
crunch,
we
have
recommended
the
implementation
of
phased
in
Impact
fees.
R
R
If
the
council
would
consider
it
and
that
would
allow
us
to
potentially
realize
impact
fees
as
early
as
July
1st
2023,
which
is
the
start
of
our
fiscal
year
at
potentially
a
50
percent
of
the
cost
that
that
Jonathan
has
calculated
here
and
then
with
us
seeing
100
of
those
again,
this
is
a
recommended
phase
in
a
hundred
percent
at
I.
Guess
it
would
be
January.
1St
2024.
sounds
sounds
so
far
from
now,
but
those
would
be
that's
the
one
here
period
that
we're
discussing
right
now.
R
So
we've
also
we're
really
wanting
to
see
affordable,
housing,
exemptions
and
I.
Think
that's
an
alignment
with
a
lot
of
the
conversation
here
tonight
as
well
wanting
to
make
sure
that
we're
developing
responsibly
and
that
we're
you
know
supporting
the
citizens
within
our
community
who,
you
know
might
be
in
need
of
some
Equity
supports.
So
those
are
the
provisions
that
that
we've
discussed
and
that
we
prioritize
and
a
little
bit
about
the
rationale.
R
C
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
so
I
think
it
might
benefit
the
council
Jonathan.
There
are
some
numbers
in
the
draft
ordinance
that
are
slightly
different
from
the
draft
report.
The
council
previously
saw
so
just
reviewing
that
recommendation
from
the
school
at
a
high
level
what
those
numbers
are
and
then
Paul
and
Colin
can
walk
through
the
exact
ordinance
language.
S
Great,
thank
you.
Thank
you.
Counselors.
So
I
got
a
couple
high
level
changes
that
have
resulted
from
the
impact
fee
or
from
the
changes
in
fees
associated
with
the
zems
primarily.
So
we
have
a
couple
things
in
response
to
our
previous
meeting.
We
did
update
the
impact
fee
to
account
for
a
change
in
the
bedroom
units.
There
was
a
request
to
consider
a
three-bedroom
unit
and
then
a
four
plus
bedroom
unit
as
separate
items,
and
so
the
fee
has
been
revised
to
account
for
that.
S
We've
also
updated,
as
as
Violet
mentioned,
about
the
zems
themselves.
So
we
have
a
more
recent
cost
estimate
and
the
inflation
has
affected
us
a
little
bit
there,
but
it's
a
pretty
modest
increase
in
cost
as
part
of
a
consideration
of
that
increase
in
cost.
We've
also
gone
back
and
sharpened
our
pencils
to
look
at
the
occupancy
of
the
zems,
and
the
district
has
decided
that
we
could
accommodate
basically
17.5
students
on
average
throughout
the
different
and
diverse
class
mixes.
S
S
S
We
wanted
to
acknowledge
that
financing.
The
school
district
is
pursuing
a
bond
because
these
impact
fees
will
accrue
over
time
and
the
district
requires.
The
the
money
to
be
available
now
to
make
this
purchase,
and
so
we've
excluded
any
financing
costs
associated
with
the
debt,
and
so
that
also
is
a
bit
of
a
cost
share
agreement
that
the
impact
fee
piece
would
be
covering
just
the
Capital
part
of
the
zems.
That's
accommodating
new
capacity
for
students,
but
the
additional
costs
associated
with
financing
is
excluded
from
the
impact
fee
consideration.
S
The
other
piece
that
is
new
is
the
chapter
on
credits
and
happy
to
go
into
more
depth
there.
If
there's
any
questions,
but
in
essence,
the
impact
fee
is
not
able
to
cover
the
full
cost
of
the
bonded
zems
purchase,
and
that
is
why
we
have
a.
We
have
an
existing
deficiency
that
we've
discussed
at
previous
meetings,
that
we
cannot
cover
and
then
we're
also
not
covering
the
financing
costs
of
the
of
that
Bond.
S
And
so
there
is
a
annual
deficiency
that
will
be
expected
to
be
born
on
the
back
of
the
property
tax
and
the
credit
methodology
simply
offsets
those
payees
of
impact
fees.
That
would
also
be
paying
property
taxes
over
the
next
few
years.
That
would
contribute
toward
paying
the
debt
down
on
that
on
that
Bond,
so
that
new
chapter
accounts
for
that
potential.
Double
double
payment
issue
that
I
think
we
had
a
public
member
raise
at
a
meeting
previously.
S
A
G
R
Good
evening
the
zems
are
we're
not
able
to
move
forward
with
the
the
purchasing
of
the
zems
until
a
bond
decision
is
made,
so
that
would
go
out
to
voters
in
March.
The
board
has
approved
me
to
move
forward
with
that.
So
that's
the
plan
now,
the
so
sorry
that
was
part.
Two
Tim
was
this.
Your
question.
I
can't
tell
from.
G
R
R
R
So
that
means
we're
going
to
be
working
within
within
the
quote
that
we
have
part
of
our
decision
here
to
move
capacity
from
17
to
17.5
was
because
it
shaved
off
about
200
per
I'm
working
off
one
screen
I'm
at
home
right
now,
so
I
don't
have
the
report
to
pull
up,
but
it
with
the
increase
in
the
cost
of
stems,
and
then
the
increase
in
students
and
then
also
removing
the
the
fees
associated
with
amortization.
We
were
able
to
be
lower
than
Jonathan
I.
R
See
you
looking
at
your
screen
here.
If
you
can
pull
up
this
number,
please
call
it
out.
We
were
able
to
be
lower
than
the
prices
that
were
listed
that
we
discussed
last
time.
We
were
here
so
to
answer
your
question
at
this
point.
We
have
final
estimates
and
we're
committed
as
a
district
to
working
within
them,
so
that
might
mean
some
compromises
on
some
materials.
Different
kinds
of
siding
books
versus
lockers
right,
finishing
touches,
barring
something
extremely
unusual.
R
We,
you
know
we're
not
planning
for
these
costs
to
go
up,
and
if
they
do,
you
know
we
would
certainly
work
with
Jonathan
on
the
impact
fees
again.
I
think
the
the
modifications
we've
made
now
are
really
us
being
aware
of
I
think
it
was
Mr.
Silverstein's
question
the
last
time
we
were
here
to
try
to
have
something
to
avoid
that
double
dip.
G
Thank
you,
Violet,
just
one
more
follow-up,
which
this
might
be
a
question
for
Jonathan
or
for
calling
her
Paul.
But
when
you
did
I
appreciate
the
calculation
with
the
four
bedrooms,
I
think
that's
important.
What
about
big
a
affordable?
What
we
call
permanently
affordable,
housing,
I,
didn't
see
anything
in
the
draft
ordinance.
Was
there
a
calculation
that
Jonathan
did
to
exclude,
or
was
there
a
consideration
in
the
draft
ordinance
to
how
that?
How
would
you
possibly
do
that
to
exclude
big,
a
affordable,
permanently,
affordable
housing
from
the
impact
fees.
T
S
Well,
I
guess
maybe
let's
tag
team,
this
I'm
not
sure
about
the
assumption,
but
basically
the
legal
Nexus
is
that
all
houses
would
be
charged.
We
assume
that
all
houses
equally
have
a
chance
of
generating
a
student,
and
so
in
essence
they
would
be
assessed
at
impact
fee.
Then,
once
they're
assessed
that
impact
fee,
if
they
satisfy
certain
criteria
I.E
being
permanently
affordable,
then
the
city
is
able
to
waive
or
exempt
them
from
that
fee
and
that's
the
process.
S
U
Sure,
I
think
that
the
draft
you
see
in
front
of
you
does
not
include
that
okay,
so
it
would
have
to
be
something
and
Paul
and
I
have
been
talking
about
this.
Of
of
how
we
incorporate
this
into
the
draft,
it
could
be
incorporated
now,
if
it's
something
you
want
to
to
have
us
include
and
we're
happy
to
include
that
and
right.
J
So
if
the,
if
it
was
the
the
school
district
in
our
discussions,
did
express
interest
in
allowing
for
that
exclude
that
exemption.
If
you
were
to
do
it,
probably
our
recommendation
would
be
that
anything
that
qualifies
as
what
we
now
call
an
inclusionary
unit,
whether
they're
getting
a
bonus
from
it
or
they're
doing
more
than
that
would
be
a
clear
cutoff
line.
That
is
spelled
in
our
regulations
and
that's
the
sort
of
classic
80
of
median
household
earning
80
of
median
income
as
a
permanently
affordable
dwelling
unit
for
that
household.
J
S
We've
attempted
to
mitigate
against
that
risk.
What
we've
done
is
done
a
fairly
conservative
estimate
of
the
revenue
that
would
actually
be
collected
through
the
impact
fees.
So
we've
done
a
I
think
a
sound
estimate
of
after
all
of
these
credits
after
any
of
the
exemptions.
How
much
could
the
property
tax
be
eligible
to
contribute
to
the
bond
and
I
think
we
have
a
fair
cushion
there?
So
we
are
we're
basically
providing
more
credits
than
I
than
I
really
would
think
is
necessary,
so
that
we're
offsetting
that
that
that
that
chance.
D
F
F
G
V
F
Is
there
any
language
that
describes
what
that
interest
rate
is
or
what
it
would
be
based
upon,
while
the
money
was
being
held
because,
for
example,
if
there's
a
tax
sale
in
the
city
right,
you
have
to
wait
a
year
before
you
can
actually
take
possession
of
the
house
and
that
money
that
you
that
you
pay
for
a
tax
sale
is
held
by
the
city
and
if
it
doesn't
happen,
it's
refunded
at
and
there's
an
interest
rate.
That's
quoted,
I
think
in
the
ordinance,
which
is
much.
F
It
was
much
higher
than
was
the
interest
rate
at
that
time.
When
we
were
read
that
that
fact
and
I
was
like
oh
wow,
that
could
hurt
so
I
just
wanted
to
make
sure
that
that
there,
maybe
there
should
be
language
about
what
type
of
interest
rate
would
be
accrued
or
would
be
used
to
calculate
that
accrual,
because
I
wouldn't
want
you
to
just
you
say
you
know.
S
It's
I
apologize,
I
wanted
to
be
there
in
person,
but
I
had
a
meeting
right
until
seven
o'clock,
seven
fifteen,
so
I
can't
see
what
Paul
and
and
Colin
are
doing.
But
this
is
language
that
predates
this
particular
impact
fee
in
the
ordinance,
so
I
think
counselor.
We
have
this
challenge
that
I
think
these
is.
This
is
cleaning
up
an
ordinance
that
probably
deserved
to
be
clean
up
regardless.
So.
F
It
was
just
just
like
what
is
the
interest
rate
that
would
be
used
to
calculate
the
accrual.
That's
all
right.
The
third
thing
was:
we
had
talked
about
non-profit
construction
not
having
to
pay
for
their
permits
until
the
co.
So
would
that
also
apply
here
to
the
impact
fees,
so
at
the
time
of
the
co,
that's
when
they
would
pay
their
impact
fee.
J
Sure
so
let
me
answer
both
of
the
questions.
I'll
take
the
second
one
first,
which
is
yes,
the
the
changed.
The
ordinance
that
you're
looking
at
at
your
next
meeting
for
the
the
big,
a
affordable
housing
that
the
city
is
involved
with,
would
apply
to
all
Impact
fees
as
being
charged
at
that
later
date,
including
these
impact
Feats,
because
it
says
all
Impact
fees,
so
Recreation,
Transportation,
now
School
Etc.
To
the
first
question,
we
would
have
to
work
out
the
math
on
exactly
what
the
accrued
interest
is.
J
So
if,
for
some
reason
those
costs
have
adjusted
and
there's
it's
lower
than
we
would
still
have
the
opportunity
to
come
back
to
council
before
it
starts
being
charged,
but
it
would
be
something
we'd
have
to
calculate
for
refunds
if
it
ever
did
come
around
and
we'd
probably
take
a
blended
interest
rate
from
the
time
of
accrual
forward
or
time
of
receipt
forward.
I'm
in
okay.
F
J
F
We
will
correct
that
so
then.
The
last
question
I
have
is
I.
I
really
didn't
understand
that
last
the
last
SC
or
SD
one
and
two,
the
the
the
credit
the
credit
table.
So
is
the
concept
that
in
the
year
that
you
would
pay
an
impact
fee.
For
example,
let's
say
on
a
four
bedroom
house:
it's
twelve
thousand
dollars.
F
You
would
expect
you,
you
also
would
be
liable
for,
let's
say
It's
Time
perfectly,
so
you
also
have
to
pay
full
property
property
taxes,
and
part
of
that
is
about
70
is
the
education
tax.
So
it
was
the
concept
that
you
would
receive
some
credit
back
for
the
impact
fee
that
you'd
paid
versus
your
I,
just
I,
don't
get
it
John.
S
That
is
the
part
that
would
contribute
to
that
two
hundred
and
fifty
thousand
dollars,
and
so
it's
only
that
marginal
amount
of
their
property
tax
that
is
discounted
off
of
their
impact
fee,
so
that
twelve
thousand
dollar
per
unit
is
then
that
twelve
thousand
dollars
subtracts,
then
the
amount
of
property
taxes
that
might
have
accrued
prior
to
their
development.
So
any
any
land
that
develops
from
year
2023
to
the
Future.
They
will
have
been
paying
property
taxes
on
that
land
empty
land.
Let's
say
that
was
also
contributing
to
the
zems.
S
Then,
once
you
develop
that
household
the
household
is
assessed
at
a
much
higher
value.
Now
that
you
have
a
house
on
it
going
forward,
that
house
will
be
annually
paying
some
of
their
property
tax
to
the
zems,
so
both
the
past
property
tax
and
the
future
net
value
of
future
taxes
will
be
subtracted
from
that
impact
fee
and.
J
At
the
time
so,
depending
on
which
year
you
come
in
okay,
if
you
come
in
in
a
later
year,
you'll
get
more
credit
for
the
land
value,
as
John
was
describing
the
first
title,
and
if
you
come
in
an
earlier
year,
because
you're
the
house
will
have
existed
for
more
time,
you'll
get
a
higher
credit
on
the
impact
fee.
Essentially,
it
assures
that
there's
not
a
double
dipping
happening.
A
U
U
What
you
see
in
front
of
you
is
just
the
new
section
and
it
it
adds
this
section
which
would
incorporate
the
school
impact
fee
onto
properties
that
are
built
after
the
effective
date
that
on
a
per
bedroom
basis
or
on
properties
that,
after
the
effective
date,
add
bedrooms
and
with
both
of
those
criteria
being
if,
if
either
one
of
those
criteria
is
met,
we
would
apply
the
impact
fees
that
is
outlined
and
currently
in
table.
Sc1.
J
And
just
to
add
to
that
point
just
to
be
clear
about
what
is
meant
by
the
development
taking
place
as
drafted,
it
would
go
just
as
the
same
as
all
the
other
impact
fees,
which
is.
It
is
at
the
time
that
they
apply
for
a
zoning
permit.
So
that's
the
effective
days
associated
with
that.
It's
not
so
something
received
an
approval
five
years
ago
or
ten
years
ago
for
multiple
buildings.
J
It
would
be
when
they
come
in
for
the
permit
to
build
the
individual
building
is
the
effectiveness
of
this
that
make
sense
so
whether
it
started
its
drb
process
next
week
next
year,
or
it
was
say,
you
know
something
like
Cider
Mill
2
that
had
approval
years
ago.
This
would
be
applied
to
each
house
as
they
come
online,
regardless
of
when
the
drb
approval
was
when
they
come
in
for
a
permit
to
build.
U
Okay
and
just
for
a
brief
explanation
of
table
SC1.
So
if
you're
building
a
two-bedroom
dwelling
unit,
you
would
pay
an
impact
fee
of
a
4636,
minus
credits,
of
course,
and
if
you
are
say
you
have
a
two-bedroom
dwelling
unit
and
you're
going
to
be
adding
a
third
unit,
you
would
take
you
would
you
would
assess
it
at
the
impact
fee
of
8929
and
then
subtract
what
was
currently
in
existence.
So
you'd
you'd
subtract
the
two
bedroom
impact
fee
from
that,
so
it
would
be
in
that
instance.
U
D
U
A
J
G
D
J
D
U
All
right,
so
so,
essentially
we
we
put
together
this
ordinance.
We
ran
it
by
the
the
school
district
team
to
see
if
it
met
their
expectations,
at
least
in
draft
form.
It
did
I
think
we
can
incorporate
a
few
if
the
council
wishes
to
incorporate
an
affordable
housing
exemption
to
this.
We
can
certainly
do
that
between
now
and
when
it's
published
for
the
the
public
hearing,
yeah.
A
D
C
You
know
I,
as
you've
heard
me
say,
with
other
ordinance
changes,
you've
considered
as
more
and
more
we
add
new
expectations
on
City
staff
without
a
new
without
any
enforcement
mechanism
or
a
new
Revenue
stream
to
pay
for
that
enforcement
mechanism.
It,
ultimately,
either
comes
down
to
increases
in
the
property
tax
or
lack
of
enforcement
and
administration.
So
I
just
want
to
call
that
out,
certainly
you're
prerogative
to
take
the
administrative
fee
out
of
this
ordinance.
Why.
B
B
D
C
C
So
we
certainly
collect
impact
fees
now
and
allocate
them
out
to
our
our
purposes
within
our
accounting
and
Bank
banking
system,
and
this
is
a
new,
an
additional
fee
to
that.
So
that
is
new
and
an
additional
accounting
process
to
segregate
them.
Additionally,
and
then
do
the
administrative
transfer
process
and
Reconciliation
process
with
the
school
district,
you
are
welcome
to
take
it
out.
I
just
want
to
make
it
very.
I
J
Something
that
John
slason
had
noted
to
us
that
that's
the
choice
that
has
been
made
thus
far.
It's
something
that
the
council,
if
it
chose
to,
could
look
at
across
the
board
the
state
law
as
John
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong
is
silent
on
the
subject
as
to
being
encouraged
or
discouraged.
So
it's
it's
eligible.
B
F
Well,
I
I
think
I
need
more
information,
so
I
mean
when
you're
collecting
checks
from
people
for
development
right
they're,
going
to
give
you
a
check
for
this
from
that,
and
and
I
mean
you're
going
to
like
take
a
check
and
it's
going
to
get
deposited
to
an
account
for
the
school
district
right
and
you're,
going
to
record
that
amount
on
some
Ledger
somewhere.
So
I
mean
you
collect
a
lot
of
money
from
a
lot
of
sources
now.
C
H
What
we
do
on
the
back
end,
similar
to
your
point,
Megan
about
whether
it's
property
taxes
or
through
an
increased
fee,
we
do
try,
charge
an
administrative
costs
to
the
Enterprise
funds
which
that
which
the
rate
payers
then
pay
back
to
the
city.
Similarly,
theoretically,
we
could
also
charge
a
similar
administrative
fee
again
on
the
property
tax
side
to
the
school
district
that
could
be
for,
for
example,
tax
collection.
We
don't
charge
any
administrative
fee
to
the
school
district,
City
Treasurer
Services.
H
D
A
A
B
F
To
well
I
still
have
another
problem
with
if
you're,
adding
a
one
unit
like
another
bedroom,
you
can
put
a
small
addition
on
a
house,
you
know
and
and
the
the
calculation
for
how
you
come
up
with
that
cost
of
that
extra
bedroom.
That
doesn't
make
sense
to
me.
If
it's
you're,
adding
one
bedroom
to
me,
it
should
be
the
27.48.
It
shouldn't
be
the
difference
between
two
and
three.
You
know
three,
so
I
I,
just
right
off
the
bat
I
have
a
problem
with
that.
It
just
seems
you
know.
F
If
you
have
a
house,
that's
been
around
for
50
years
right
and
it's
a
three
bedroom
house
and
you
happen
to
add
a
bedroom
right
I.
Don't
understand
why
you
would
be
the
difference
between
the
the
four
and
the
three
you're,
adding
one
bedroom
in
terms
of
an
impact
fee,
you're
just
adding
one
bedroom
so.
F
D
F
G
G
And
react:
realistically:
it's
only
going
to
be
enforced
if
they
come
and
ask
for
a
permit,
because
they're
going
up
or
they're
going
out
if
they
are
carving
up
the
inside
of
their
home
and
if
they
have
to
raise
their
hand,
to
ask
for
a
permit
and
also
pay
those
that
probably
are
going
to
be
in
the
shadows
and
we're
not
going
to
knock
on
doors
and
count.
Bedrooms,
I
assume.
G
Least,
that's
what
we
did,
but
then
you,
but
then
you'd
still
have
to
collate
that
information
with
it
just
seems
unenforceable
unless
they're
coming
for
a
permit
already
and
then
they'll
find
out
that
they
oh
for
the
extra
bedroom,
that
they're
building,
but
that
might
be
a
minor
problem.
Okay,
in
the
grand
scheme
of
things.
J
There
are
different
ways
of
doing
this.
Certainly
this
was
how
Colin
and
I
felt
that
it
most
reflected
the
the
analysis
reports.
But
there
are
multiple
ways
of
assembling
this
and,
as
you
know,
we
talked
about
the
affordable
housing
there's.
If,
if
there
are
aspects
of
this
that
the
council
is
not
comfortable
with,
then
it
can
be
modified.
G
S
Schools
not
so
much
several
communities
around
Chittenden
County,
have
impact
fees
and
much
like
Paul
mentioned.
We
already
have
Recreation
transportation
and
police
fire
in
in
South
Burlington,
but
Williston
winooski's,
considering
it
Burlington
has
had
them
for
years,
even
Saint,
Albans,
Georgia,
Milton,
Hinesburg,
there's
a
few
others
that
have
them
as
well,
but
primarily
Chittenden
Centric.
Given
the
growth
that's
been
happening
in
the
state.
S
G
G
J
A
G
I
just
wrap
my
head
around.
This
is,
if
I
heard
correctly
from
Jonathan,
we
don't
need
to
alter
the
tables
by
moving
the
permanently
affordable,
inclusionary
housing
from
from
the
the
fees
right.
But
we
would
if
we
were
to
put
the
four
percent
or
two
and
a
half
percent
or
two
and
a
quarter
of
the
of
the
collection
fees.
If
we
made
it
off
the
top
rather
than
in
addition
to.
S
D
G
I,
don't
support
adding
four
percent
on
top
of
that,
but
I
also
sympathize
with
our
city
manager,
because
I
believe
everything
she
says
about
the
adding
more
jobs
without
the
income
is
going
to
be
a
strain
and
will
ultimately
affect
the
property
taxes.
I
get
that
so
can
we
take
it
off
the
top,
and
what
does
that
look
like.
G
A
A
L
O
B
C
Is
that
we're
not
necessarily
talking
about
adding
a
new
staff
person?
We
certainly
don't
need
a
new
staff
person
to
collect
just
this
impact
fee
right.
It's
how
we
in
the
aggregate
add
all
these
little
things
that
add
burden
that
the
rest
of
the
property
taxpayers
aren't
benefiting
from
and
what
are
the?
What's?
How
do
we
diversify
our
revenue
streams
enough
to
carry
that
capacity,
so
my
position
would
be
it
when
the
education,
if
and
when
the
education
impact
fee
goes
away,
then
that
would
end
because
it's
not
a
new
service.
C
We
are
providing
anymore
to
the
government
system.
I
do
want
to
I
think
you
know
the
way
the
superintendent
and
I
have
been
talking
about
this
from
the
beginning
is.
Is
this
is
a
phase
one
of
Education
impact
fees?
You
know
this
is
a
8
to
10
to
15
years
solution
Violet.
This
is
not
our
long-term
infrastructure
solution
for
our
education
system,
so
I
think
what
we're
talking
about
right
now
is
relatively
small
collection
for
an
interim
solution.
B
C
C
So
without
having
conferred
with
the
team,
my
I
think
if
the
numbers
are
going
to
change,
the
council
should
see
what
the
numbers
are
before
you
warn
a
public
hearing.
This
does
not
need
to
be
this.
This
doesn't
go
to
the
voters
on
town
meeting
day.
This
is
just
an
ordinance
that
you
all
approve.
Have
it.
C
So
in
that
case
it
would
need
to
be
done
by
middle
of
the
public
hearing
would
need
to
be
conducted
and
you
would
need
to
make
a
decision
by
the
middle
of
January
okay,
but
that
does
give
us
time
to
come
back
to
you,
the
July
one
day
in
The
Descent
and
the
January
1
date.
Those
are
what
we
have
proposed
now
in
the
ordinance,
those
you
know
we're
trying
to
get
those
dates
out
there
into
the
community.
C
So
the
folks
who
are
currently
putting
together,
Pro
Forums
for
development
are
starting
to
integrate
this
this
additional
fee
in
their
planning.
So
that
warning,
you
know
with
tonight's
meeting
with
a
public
hearing
warning
in
the
future
is
out
there
I
think
that
we
can
hold
that
date.
Even
if
we
get
into
a
public
Hearing
in
the
middle
of
January,
okay,
I.
Don't
think
that
I
mean
that's.
That's
me
speaking
I,
don't
know
if
I
let
her
Jonathan
or
the
team
feels
differently
about
that
you're
not
obligated
to
give
that
head
head
Runway.
C
B
R
Sorry
go
ahead.
Excuse
me,
I
didn't
mean
to
interrupt
I'd
love
to
respond
to
that.
If
now's
an
okay
time
regarding
timing,
the
you
know,
the
the
point
that
was
just
brought
up
is
is
pretty
significant
to
the
district.
You
know
we
want
to
be
communicative
around
this
and
timing
is
really
critical
here.
R
There
has
been
discussion
about
the
potential
of
that
being
as
soon
as
December
21st.
If
that's
something
that
can
happen
in
January,
you
know,
then
fine,
I,
I
as
I
understand
that
would
push
the
collection
from
that
July
first
date
on
the
further
back
we
go,
but
but
you
all,
you
know,
I,
don't
know
the
timing
of
your
ordinances,
so
I'll,
just
reiterate
from
The
District's
perspective.
It's
important
to
separate
this
not
only
from
Bond
vote
and
and
school
budget
voting,
but
really
looking
at
the
timing.
R
Here
we
need
to
get
started
with
these
projects
because
our
Stu
we
do
not
have
space
in
our
schools
for
our
students
period
at
Orchard
and
Rick
Marcotte,
and
so
we
cannot
continue
on
with
the
projects
until
we're
start
starting
to
realize
some
of
these
fees.
So
with
our
fiscal
year
starting
July
1st,
it
would
be
critical
to
have
the
impact
fees
timings
so
that
we
could
start
realizing
some
of
these
fees,
at
least
that
50.
If
that's
what
the
council
approves
as
as
early
as
July
1st.
R
So
with
the
delay
of
of
hearings,
it's
it's.
You
know
the
district's
concern
that
that
would
delay
the
funding
necessary
for
a
start
of
a
a
school
year,
which
would
you
know
when
we're
beginning
the
next
school
year,
I'd
like
to
have
these
zones
in
place,
so
that
teachers
and
students
can
start
their
learning
in
these
much
needed
spaces.
R
A
Well,
I
think
we
would
want
to
have
this
completed
so
that
the
July
1
and
the
January
1
dates
can
be
utilized.
I
I
think
sometimes
there's
some
Optics
with
hustling
things
through
in
a
really
quick
way
that
the
public
can
see,
as
they
really
didn't
know
about
it.
They
didn't
have
time
to
comment
fully
the
week
before.
A
G
I
agree
with
that
statement
and
you
know
I
think
about
was
Paul
described.
The
projects
that
have
been
approved
by
the
drb,
ostensibly
they've
been
financed,
but
no
permit
is
pulled.
Certainly
I
want
to
make
sure
those
homes
are
built
and
wouldn't
want.
I.
Don't
think
these
impact
fees
are
going
to
stop
that
from
happening,
but
I
certainly
would
want
some
communication,
or
at
least
some
some
testimony
from
those
that
are
ready
to
pull
a
permit
and
are
looking
at
these,
these
fees
and
ensuring
that
those
buildings
do
get
built
and.
R
Thank
you,
Paul,
that's
extremely
helpful
information.
So
so
then
you
know
I
I
would
I
would
say
to
the
council.
You
know,
I
would
prefer
that
we
have
as
much
time
to
discuss
this
with
the
community
as
possible
and
if
we
don't
need
that
seven
month
lead
time
after
we've
had
the
public
hearings,
then
then
why
have
it?
Why
not
take
more
time
for
discussion
now?
R
D
A
F
C
W
C
Would
say:
December
19th.
We
should
keep
as
another
discussion
point
for
you
to
set
a
public
hearing
that
night
and
then
we
could
either
do
the
public
hearing
on
January
17th,
which
is
your
final
budget
discussion
night
or
you
could
do
a
special
meeting
on
the
23rd
right
before
the
steering
committee
meeting,
which
may
enable
the
school
board
to
participate.
Also
in
that
conversation,
so
those
are
some
off-the-cuff
options
for
you,
okay,
I.
A
F
My
last
statement
about
the
four
percent
is
that
it
says
up
to
four
percent,
so
we
that's
what
this
says,
that
the
administrative
fee
not
be
more
than
four
percent,
so
we
have
some
negotiation
room
there
and
my
other
proposals
we
just
have.
We
just
have
a
flat
fee.
You
know
whether
it's
100
or
125
150
per
permit
impact
fee
just
a
flat
fee
rather
than
a
percentage.
That's
my
other
proposal
as.
F
F
R
Yeah,
thank
you
for
that
question.
I
I
think
we
have
some
flexibility
on
that
piece.
You
know
we
we
work
with
the
city
and
and
the
City
Works
with
us.
I
don't
know
if
that
is
a
a
typical
way
that
impact
fees
are
typically
dispersed,
but
you
know
if
it
if
it's
mutually
beneficial,
we're
happy
to
to
have
conversation
on
on
modifying
that.
J
G
J
G
J
One
we'll
look
at
a
couple
of
options
on
that:
there's
pros
and
cons
to
each
of
those
in
terms
of
the
amount
of
work.
It's
you
know,
it's
one
permit.
So
it's
less
work
in
that
respect,
but
it's
identifying
the
bedrooms
associated
with
each
of
them,
so
it's
and
tracking
it
for
that,
but
we'll
we'll.
If
it's
council's
pleasure,
we
will
come
with
a
couple
of
scenarios
for
you
and
one
of
the
scenarios
is
not
at
all.
V
D
A
A
A
A
D
D
D
D
D
D
D
A
A
Once
again,
the
South
Burlington
City
council
meeting
of
Monday
November
21st
2022
and
we'll
continue
with
item
11.,
which
is
receiving
a
proposed
encampment
ordinance
and
provide
direction
to
staff.
So
we're
going
to
hear
from
Colin
McNeil
the
City
attorney
and
Sean
Burke,
our
police
chief,
so
welcome
just.
C
U
L
U
So,
just
just
a
little
bit
of
background,
we
have
an
ordinance
already
on
the
books
that
prohibits
camping
in
our
parks
and
City
owned
land.
The
difficulty
with
that
it
really
doesn't
set
out
the
procedure
of
how
we're
supposed
to
enforce
it,
what
we're
supposed
to
do
with
people's
property.
If
we
come
across
an
encampment,
how
we
provide
notice
to
individuals
who
are
camping
on
our
city
lands
and
what
kind
of
notice
is
required
and,
for
instance,
if
we
are
to
accept
property
or
or
the
personal
belongings
of
of
individuals?
U
How
long
do
we
keep
that
property?
What
rights
do
they
have
to
access
it
and
get
it
back
to
them?
And
so
we
developed
a
policy
here
that
you
have
in
front
of
you.
This
policy
is
based
on
largely
based
on
the
policy
that
was
adopted
by
Portland
Maine
and
Portland
Maine,
largely
based
it
on
what
was
in
Tacoma
Washington
I
spoke
with
their
city
attorney's
office.
U
They
also
thought
that
Tacoma
Washington
got
it
from
someone
else.
So
it's
it's.
It's
a
policy
that
has
been
working
its
way
around
municipalities.
We
obviously
tailored
it
to
somewhat
to
to
fit
our
needs
and
to
adjust
to
our
to
the
to
our
city.
But
it's
largely
based
on
on
those
communities
and
and
speaking
with
the
the
folks
in
Portland
Maine.
They
said
it's
it's
it's
working.
U
U
D
U
Prohibitions
of
camping
in
their
Parks,
but
they
don't
have
a
policy
on
how
to
carry
that
out,
and
so
that's
been
developed
recently
within
the
past
few
years.
So
Portland
Maine
is
in
the
same
situation.
So
so
we
developed
this
this
policy
to
really
to
bring
it
to
you
to
to
really
recognize
that
as
a
for
you
to
consider
a
way
to
move
forward
in
really
enforcing
our
our
policy
in
really
kind
of
a
progressive
way,
and
so
that's
that's
what
we
bring
before
you
tonight.
A
U
Can
outline
a
couple
different
components
of
it?
One
is
that
in
in
most
of
it
applies
to
city,
land,
city
parks
and
city-owned
land.
It
requires
notice
before
an
encampment
is
removed.
It
also
relies
heavily
on
on
service
providers
to
inform
inform
the
city
of
whether
there
are
areas
where
people
can
go
so
it
in
a
way.
It
prohibits
the
removal
of
an
encampment
if
there
is
not
a
place
in.
D
U
Area
where
a
person
can
go
the
exception
to
that
is
certain
areas
that
are
listed
in
the
ordinance
obstruction
areas
that
are
identified
immediate
Hazard
areas.
What
has
been
identified
as
emphasis
areas,
the
obstruction
areas
are,
for
instance,
could
be
defined
as
a
sidewalk,
a
roadway,
perhaps
the
the
middle
of
the
soccer
field.
D
U
You
know
the
way
to
first
base
on
a
baseball
field
that
can
be
removed
without
notice.
Emphasis
areas
are,
are
components
of,
or
areas
of
city-owned
land
that
have
had
camping
there
in
the
past
and
has
been
removed
through
processes
and
notice,
and
it's
been
kind
of
a
a
repeat.
Issue
has
been
identified
as
an
emphasis
area,
and
then
at
that
point,
once
that
area
is
identified
as
an
emphasis
area,
campsites
could
be
removed
from
those
areas
as
long
as
they
are
well
posted
without
notice
and
the
immediate
Hazard
is.
U
It
takes
some
discretion
on
the
port
of
part
of
people
who
are
enforcing
the
policy,
but
it
would
be
dangerous
to
people
who
are
in
them
are
or
others
who
are
come
in
contact
with
it.
So
that's
just
some
overview
of
how
the
policy
works.
The
way
it's
written
right
now
is
that
if,
if
a
campsite
is
removed,
we
would
be
obligated
to
keep
property
for
approximately
a
week
before.
A
So
I
have
a
question
for
the
chief
part
of
this
I
I
thought
positively
included
identifying
support
services,
and
not
just
you
know,
going
in
with
your.
You
know:
guns
out
and
cleaning
it
up,
but
really
trying
to
work
with
those
residents
or
those
Campers
or
whatever.
You
call
them
and
I'm
curious
about
the
funding.
For
that
do
you
have
have
you
thought
about
a
budget
line
item
for
carrying
out
this
policy.
Y
Y
I
think
it's
been
two
years
since
I've
actually
been
here
right
and
not
on
the
screen.
So
and
usually
I
talk
a
lot
loud
enough.
So
a
great
question:
it's
exactly
how
we
use
our
community
outreach
team,
our
partnership
with
Howard,
currently,
even
when
we
deal
with
these
encampments
on
private
property
because
they
are
plugged
into
all
the
wrap
around
Services
generally.
They
know
the
folks
that
are
camped,
whether
it's
on
public
or
private
land
and
it's
effective.
So
as
long
as
that,
Synergy
still
exists
between
our
community
and
Howard.
Y
F
D
F
I
think
it's
very
sensitive
to
people
that
are
camping
out,
it's
sensitive
to
their
their
belongings,
to
the
reasons
why
they're
there
and
it
tries
to
hook
them
up
with
services
and
I
think
this
is
the
I
think
this
is
the
the
best
that
we
could
do
in
terms
of
of
trying
to
create
this
policy.
So
I
appreciate
the
work.
F
Q
Policy
on
the
same
subject,
and
also
montpeliers
and
I,
would
before
I
enter
my
comments.
I'd
be
interested
in
the
difference
between
a
policy
and
an
ordinance
because
this
policy
gets
into
some
well.
My
question
is:
if
is
it
binding
if
it's
a
policy,
if
these
procedures
aren't
followed
and
someone
wanted
to
raise
a
complaint
or
or
something
would
would
the
city?
Is
the
city
legally
bound
to
follow
a
policy
that
isn't
isn't
an
ordinance?
But
that's
that's
one
question,
but
there
were
a
couple.
Q
One
of
the
things
is
I,
maybe
both
Burlington
or
maybe
just
Montpelier.
It
had
a
nice
preface.
That
said,
it's
not
the
intent
of
this
policy
to
criminalize
the
act
of
an
individual
to
sleep
on
public
property
and
and
I.
Think
it's
really
recognizing
the
situation
that
some
people
find
themselves
in
in
the
current
housing
crisis.
So
it's
there
was
a
little
more
sensitivity
to
that.
I,
don't
know
how
how.
Q
The
very
first
thing
they
have
to
do
is
to
make
a
referral
to
Outreach
Services
for
the
individuals
that
are
using
that
the
site
and
that
that
just
seemed
to
be
a
great
thing
to
have
in
writing.
It
was
that
was
the
very
first
thing
you
did,
of
course,
if
there's
criminal
activity
or
something
like
that,
that
would
preempt
that
and
the
other
thing
I
noticed
is
I'm
pretty
sure
this
is
in
yes,
this
is
in
the
Burlington
ordinance
and
they
allow
a
the
there's.
Q
Q
A
U
B
If
no
housing
is
available
right
there,
there
is
a
provision
to
allow
them
right
to
stay
and
there's
also.
Just
as
the
chief
said,
we
have
our
Outreach.
Our
community
outreach
team,
that's
right
there
and
has
been
there
since
the
very
beginning,
even
before
the
notice
is
posted,
so
I
would
assume
that
any
belongings
that
need
to
be
retrieved
the
Outreach
people
would
be
working
with
those
you
know
with
those
residents
to
to
locate
and
to
to
retrieve
those
items.
With
regard
to
the
30
days,
I
I
mean
I.
A
D
U
Was
in
the
Burlington,
so
it's
a
it's
a
topic
of
conversation
for
how
long
we
we
want
to
keep
it.
We
haven't
had
the
opportunity
to
to
vet
it
with
public
works
or
whoever
will
be
storing
the
equipment
to
see
what
our
capacity
is
to
be
able
to
actually
store
store
property
on
where
that
would
be
done.
So
just
a
component
of
our
discussion
as
they.
This
thing
moves
along
I
think
that's.
A
C
N
N
If
the
police
department
would
be
open
to
further
engagement
with
some
Community
stakeholders,
or
if
that's
already
happened,
if
you
could
elaborate
on
that,
the
30-day
policy
for
the
retention
of
personal
belongings,
you
know
I
do
share
a
concern
on
that
piece.
That
is
something
that's
consistent
with
Burlington,
as
well
as
Portland
Oregon
and
some
other
cities.
Once
you
kind
of
see
the
ordinance
and
start
doing
some
research
30
days
was
something
that
stood
out
understanding
the
difference
between
an
ordinance
and
a
policy.
N
There
is
kind
of
a
ordinance
has
more
teeth
policies.
It
would
be
helpful
to
understand
that
a
little
bit,
and
also
we
haven't,
had
an
opportunity
to
discuss
this
at
the
affordable
housing
committee.
If
there
was
maybe
an
opportunity
we
could
discuss
or
refer
to
community
stakeholders,
maybe
like
a
cboeo
who's
who's,
really
a
specialist
in
this
area.
Thank.
D
A
N
A
A
W
Hayes
Avenue,
yes,
but
I'm
here
in
my
own
capacity
tonight,
well,
I
I,
swear
I
did
not
coordinate
with
the
others,
but
my
biggest
concern
that
stuck
out
to
me
is
as
well.
The
storage
and
I
I
sent
the
council
earlier
today,
both
Montpelier
and
Burlington,
and
if
I
was
to
make
a
comment,
I
would
prefer
to
have
30
days
as
well,
similar
to
Montpelier
and
Burlington
I.
W
A
W
T
T
You
know
symbols
that
you
had
of
a
prior
self
like
a
photo
album
or
maybe
maybe
just
a
you
know,
a
single
picture
or
Lord
knows
what,
but
for
many
people
that
is
a
vitally
important
connection
that
they
have
okay.
Some
experts
on
this
have
suggested
that
if
we
want
to
help
the
mental
stability
of
the
homeless,
the
best
thing
that
we
could
do
is
to
rent
storage
facilities
for
them
just
to
keep
their
stuff.
So
my
point
is:
thank
you
for
doing
this.
T
Z
A
Z
I'm
Gabe
Nelson
I
live
about
80
Eastwood,
Drive,
South,
Brunson
I,
also
I'm,
very
okay,
I'm
Gabe,
Nelson
I
live
in
80
Eastwood
Drive
South,
Burlington
I
also
I'm
happy
that
the
goal
is
to
avoid
criminalizing
houselessness
and
trying
to
take
steps
to
preserve
people's
property.
I
do
have
some
concerns
that
in
some
you
know,
I
understand
that
there's
currently
not
a
specific
policy
I
do
have
some
concerns
with
this
policy.
Z
The
first
one
is
that
I
have
a
concern:
I'm,
not
sure
how
founded
it
is,
but
I
have
a
concern
that
so
there
there's
a
a
part
of
the
policy
that
states
that,
if
people,
if
there's
an
option
for
shelter,
there's
one
path
and
then,
if
there's
not
there's
the
other
more
hands-off
approach.
My
concern
is
that
if
people
are
choosing
to
not
choose
the
shelter,
why
are
they
do?
Why
are
they
making
that
choice,
and
is
there
a
legitimate
reason
that
the
shelter
may
be
inadequate?
Z
Z
One
wording
in
the
policy
that
bothered
me
was
in
the
definition
of
an
obstruction
which
is
5.5,
so
it
specifically
states
that
people
is
one
thing
that
can
be
an
instruction
that
are
on
a
public,
sidewalk
and
so
I.
Just
sort
of
I
mean
this
is
a
nitpick
I
think,
but
I
think
people
that
are
on
a
public
sidewalk.
Z
Z
Z
Z
That's
another
concern
that
I
have
I,
have
the
same
concern
about
property
being
destroyed
after
one
week,
I
think
30
30
days
is
a
good
time
period.
I
think
that
one
concern
I
have
is
the
reality
of
people
who
are
living
in
campsites
and
are
asked
to
leave
and
do
not
want
to
leave
and
the
violence
that
this
would
require
to
enforce
force
them
to
leave.
Z
This
is
a
I
think
real
reality
situation
that
we
unfortunately
have
to
consider
with
this
policy
and
ultimately,
I
personally
do
not
support
the
removal
of
campsites
unless
they
propose,
unless
they
pose
a
real
and
actual
danger
to
the
people
in
the
campsites
or
others
near
the
site
or
other
people
in
the
community,
and
that
danger
shouldn't
be
based
on
assumed
criminality
of
the
people
in
the
site,
yes
or
or
danger
to
the
environment
as
well.
Thanks
for
your
time,
Joy
stay
up
here.
Z
A
Are
there?
Oh,
no,
are
there
any
other
comments
from
the
public
or
well?
It
sounds
like
there's
interest
for
some
additional
Outreach,
some
thoughts
that
about
how
long
you
take
keep
the
stuff
I,
don't
know
how
much
stuff
or
even
how
many
campsites
there
are
in
this
city.
Do
you
have
a
handle
on?
Are
we
talking
about
I
mean
we
heard
about
one
near
a
church?
Y
Y
Yes,
so
you
know
in
those
circumstances,
we
work
with
the
property
owner
and
tried
a
broker,
the
the
dismant
dismantling
of
the
camp.
But
again
it
could
really
degrade
to
a
point
where
it
amounts
to
a
criminal
trespass,
and
then
we
would
have
to
work
with
the
prosecutor's
office
on
that
and
figure
out
how
we're
going
to
remove
it.
G
A
Well,
thank
you
for
bringing
this
forward
because
it
is
an
issue
and
it
it
appears
as
if
you
really
wanna,
do
the
right
thing
and
have
it
successful.
Sandy
has
another
comment,
but
could
you
also,
as
you
continue
to
discuss
and
think
about
this
share
with
us
the
difference
between
why
you
want
this
to
be
a
policy
and
not
attached
to
the
ordinance,
and
you
don't
necessarily
have
to
do
it
tonight,
but
that
seems
like
that.
We
should
get
the
language
correct.
So
the
public
understands
how
we're
going
about
this.
U
Just
initially,
a
policy
would
give
us
more
flexibility
to
be
able
to
move
with
The
Changing
Times
as
they
go
forward
in
the
future
than
an
ordinance
would.
As
things
come
up,
we
could
amend
a
policy.
We
would
be
obliged
to
follow
the
policy
that
that
you
hand
down
whether
it's
an
ordinance
or
a
policy,
but
it
just
allows
us
a
little
bit
more
flexibility.
Q
A
A
Y
A
AA
AA
A
AA
Each
time
is
a
draft
policy
that
we
had
asked
for
your
consideration
for
adoption
on
how
to
deal
with
delinquent
delinquencies
in
terms
of
our
ambulance,
billing
procedures.
So
in
to
the
January
2021,
we
started
with
a
Outsourcing
annuit
with
a
new
company
who
does
our
ambulance
billing?
That's
had
a
great
success,
but
with
that
also
comes
a
very
thorough
accounting
of
all
of
our.
So
we,
when
we
transport
somebody,
we
build
them
and,
as
you
can
imagine
there
are
we
send
them
three
bills
and
after
that,
there's
no
collection
agency.
AA
So
much
of
it
is
paid
through
Medicare,
Medicaid
or
if
you
have
private
insurance
or
supplemental
insurance.
But
after
that
then
delinquencies
start
to
to
rack
up,
and
we
don't
bill
you
after
the
third
time.
So
what
this
is
really
doing
is
allowing
us
to
clean
up
the
system.
So
after
about
almost
two
years
of
using
this
company,
we
have
about
80
000.
That
is
uncollectible
revenue.
AA
We
carry
it
on
the
books,
but
this
would
allow
the
treasurer
or
our
finance
director
to
work
with
our
billing
company
to
write
that
debt
off
every
every
month.
When
we
get
our
monthly
report
and
have
a
clean
system
of
keeping
track,
what
is
really
collectible
an
outstanding
debt
that
we
may
be
able
to
capture
versus
monies
that
are
not
going
to
ever
be
captured.
So
that's
what
this
and
but
we
bring
this
for
you
as
a
formal
policy
to
allow
us
to
do
that.
AB
AA
So,
prior
to
switching
to
this
company,
I
suspect
that
it
was
done
in
informally,
and
so
now
the
correct
thing.
The
correct
way
to
do
this
business
would
be
to
have
the
council
adopt
a
formal
policy
to
allow
us
to
do
that
so
that
we
are
otherwise
we're
writing
off
debt
that
you
haven't
allowed
us
to
do
so.
You
asked
to
charge
for
a
fee,
but
you
we
in
the
policy.
There
was
never
a
way
for
us
to
say
if
we
did
not
receive
that
what
we
would
do
with
the
balance.
I.
C
B
D
D
A
AA
AA
This
is
a
formality,
in
my
opinion,
to
bring
us
up
to
what
is
a
more
acceptable
and
and
the
app
brings
us
to
the
county
average
of
What
Municipal
Services
charge
understanding
that
84
percent
of
our
patients
we
transport-
this-
does
not
affect
anyone.
That's
we
build
Medicare
Medicaid,
there
are
caps
and
so
those
patients
we
just
received
that
cap.
This
really
applies
to
about
the
16
percenters
patients
that
have
Private
health
insurance,
that
we
then
build
the
insurance
company
for,
and
we
anticipate
this
will
bring
in
annually
about
60
000
additional
Revenue.
F
AA
AA
F
A
B
F
AC
AC
Good
yeah,
thank
you
and
I
know.
Chris
Shaw
is
online
there.
So
thank
you
for
Chris
joining
me
here.
So
this
is
my
annual
kind
of
customer
service
check-in.
We
are.
We
serve
our
municipalities
and
I
just
want
to
get
feedback
on
how
we're
doing
from
your
perspective,
I
believe
you
got
the
report
in
your
packet
I'll
just
review
the
report
real
quickly
and
ask
for
feedback.
AC
A
A
AC
B
AC
Good,
thank
you
on
page.
Four
are
the
list
of
projects
that
goes
on
to
page
five,
a
little
bit
of
projects,
capital
projects
that
are
in
our
transportation
Improvement
program,
which
we
need
to
approve
for
vtrans,
to
be
able
to
use
federal
funds
and
a
little
bit
information.
You
know
kind
of
cost
and
where
they
are
in
terms
of
schedule,
something
a
couple.
AC
Things
have
probably
already
been
completed
there
I'm
seeing,
but
a
number
of
things
that
are
coming
up,
I,
don't
know
a
lot
about
every
single
one
of
those
projects,
but
if
there's
any
questions
happy
to
take
those
or
in
our
current
work
program,
so
the
planning
work,
we
have
just
a
technical
assistance
task,
some
more
detailed
work
around
Transportation
implementation
for
your
climate
action
plan,
more
crosswalks
and,
of
course,
some
extra
work
with
your
bike.
Ped
project
over
89.
A
I
A
Ourselves,
no
okay,
absolutely
no!
No
was
was
really
that
we
need
more
public
transportation.
If
we're
gonna,
you
know
advance
and
really
make
the
kinds
of
reduce
mild
driven
in
any
meaningful
way.
So
I
guess.
My
question
is
how
I
mean
it's
not
just
something
that
South
Burlington
can
do.
I
mean
this
person
suggested
that
we,
you
know,
commit
500
000
to
public
transit,
to
make
it
happen
in
in
South
Burlington.
A
AC
AC
AC
You
know
I'm
not
sure
exactly
what
the
future
is,
but
I
know
it's
got
to
evolve
somehow,
but
I
also
don't
think
it's
realistic
to
ask
the
bus
company
or
ask
GMT
to
run
more
buses
without
more
Riders
being
there,
and
so
that
the
theme
that
that
you
were
working
on
earlier
is
consistent
with
what
we're
working
on
regionally
of
trying
to
get
more
housing
density
along
our
bus
lines,
because
that's
that
that's
kind
of
when
you
know
like
I,
can't
even
get
to
how
many
layers
of
wind
that
is
right.
It
helps
our
climate.
AC
It
helps
you
know,
Transportation
helps
those
even
those
residents
if
they
have
a
less
expensive
way
to
get
wherever
they're
trying
to
get
to,
as
opposed
to
trying
to
run
ssta
services.
Part
of
the
time
you
know
on
demand
into
rural
parts
of
the
county,
so
anyway,
there's
there's
more
there
and
I
don't
know.
Maybe
counselor
code
might
want
to
follow
up
more
on
that,
because
he's
probably
heard
more
recent
conversations
at
their
board.
G
Is
the
operations
chair
for
gmta
I
just
want
to
say
that
we
miss
you
and
you're
your
outside's
influence?
It's
a
challenging
time.
We
have
to
figure
out
whether
to
reinstate
fairs
deal
with
labor
issues,
and
and
yes,
it's
the
number
of
buses
and
drivers.
But
it's
also
the
certainty
for
drivers
or
excuse
me
for
passengers.
They
want
to
know
that
they're
not
going
to
be
waiting
in
the
cold
so
being
able
to
ensure
that
those
routes.
O
A
So
you
mentioned
the
and
I
think
I
mean
I'm
well
aware
of
the
funding
formula
that
the
state
has
that
you
know
there
was
some
reason
to
that,
but
is
that
something?
But
you
just
noted
that
you
know,
maybe
that
needs
to
be
re-looked
at
as
well
are,
is
ccrpc
taking
a
role
in
that
or
in
your
conversations
with
other
planning
organizations.
AC
Montpelier,
yes
yeah
so,
and
we
worked
with
GMT
and
and
v-trans
last
year
and
developed,
some
I'll
call
them
options
for
other
Revenue
local
Revenue
sources
that
we
presented
to
the
legislature
last
year.
Of
course,
you
know:
we've
been
in
a
very
unique
time
and
there
was
thankfully
a
lot
of
federal
money
flowing
into
the
state,
and
the
state
has
been
able
to
help
the
last
two
years
right.
AC
We've
had
Fair,
free,
Transit
I
think
that
that
I
was
going
to
say,
gravy
train
I'm,
not
sure,
that's
the
right
analogy,
but
is
probably
coming
to
the
end.
At
the
end
of
FY,
23
and
unfortunately,
kind
of
the
the
disparity
between
urban
and
rural
services
in
the
state
is
really
significant.
I
think
it
costs
the
state,
something
like
500
000
to
make
the
rest
of
the
State
Fair
free.
AC
It
costs
them
two
million
dollars
just
to
make
Chittenden
County,
Fair,
free
and
so
I
would
not
be
surprised
if
they
continue
Fair
free
service
in
the
rest
of
the
state
and
have
a
different
policy
solution
for
chitty
County,
which
is
just
going
to
increase
the
pressure
on
municipalities
and
your
local
property
taxes
to
pay
that
local
share
without
some
other
Revenue
source,
and
so
we
we
presented
Revenue
options.
We
know
the
legislature
will
decide
what
they
want
to
decide
in
that
regard,
and
so
we
did
not
try
to
get
down
to
one
option.
AC
I
haven't
been
here
forever,
but
I
haven't
seen
that
ever
work
with
the
legislature,
and
so
those
options
are
still
on
the
table.
I
expect
they'll
get
some
more
attention
this
year,
particularly
as
I
think
the
state
may
be
running
into
a
situation
more
broadly
of
not
being
able
to
have
enough
local
match
for
to
match
all
the
Federal
Transportation
funds.
So
again,
you
know
the
blessing
comes
with
a
little
bit
of
a
curse
with
the
like
the
federal
infrastructure,
Bill
a
lot
more
money
in
it,
but
that
also
requires
more
local
match.
AC
B
If
I
could
just
add
on
that
topic,
I
think
also.
We
just
had
a
woman
here
who
was
applying
for
the
cswd
and
she
works
on
waste
management
at
her
place
of
employment
and
I
think
that
reaching
out
to
places
of
employment,
either
on
ccrpc
or
the
GMT
to
to
Really
educate
the
employees,
because
a
lot
of
them
haven't
even
really
looked
into
it
and
I
mean
I
think
that's
also
some
low-hanging
fruit
there.
Yes.
AC
We
invest
about
maybe
seventy
thousand
dollars
a
year
in
the
Chinden
area,
transportation,
management
association.
So
there's
an
organization
established
to
do
exactly
that,
and
so
we
help
support
that
working
broadening
their
reach
to
get
to
more
employers.
So
more
work
to
do
on
that
and
we
are,
as
a
follow-up,
you
may
remember.
I
was
in
front
of
you
a
lot
of
many
times
over
the
last
couple
years
around
the
89
study
and
I.
AC
Don't
know
if
you
remember,
but
at
the
end
of
that
we
were
also
looking
at
ways
to
reduce
traffic
Demand
on
our
Interstate
with
travel
demand
management,
which
is
what
we're
talking
about
really.
How
do
we
reduce
driving
trips,
we're
going
to
dig
into
that
more
deeply
in
the
coming
year?
Also
so
stay
tuned
for
more
yes
and
there's
more
more
to
do
sorry.
The
last
few
pages
of
the
report
are
cover
a
wide
range
of
topics.
AC
AC
That
was
December
7th
last
year.
Oh
sorry,
this
is
this
is
a
backwards
looking
report,
mostly
okay
and
yeah,
Building
Homes,
together
I
think
you
heard
some
about
I,
appreciate
your
efforts
and
and
the
contribution
that
South
Burlington
place
is
in
increasing
our
housing
stock,
comprehensive
Economic,
Development
strategy,
I'm
happy
to
take
any
questions
or
feedback
on
any
of
these
other
topics.
At
the
end.
Here.
AC
I
still
don't
believe,
even
if
we
can
build
a
thousand
homes
a
year
here
in
China
County
that
it's
going
to
be
enough
to
address
the
issues
and
the
demand
that
we
have-
and
you
know
a
lot
of
our
just
our
housing
market
I
know
is
kind
of
fundamentally
broken.
We
stopped
building
enough
housing
and
this
is
not
about
South
Burlington
per
se,
all
right
like
more
generally
as
a
state,
but
we
have
not
been
building
enough
housing
now
for
a
couple
decades
right.
It's
not
gonna.
AC
There
come
buy
a
home
here
for
cash
and
yeah
I
think
that's
we're
seeing
kind
of
the
beginning
of
the
climate
Refugee
wave,
and
it
concerns
me
greatly
that
you
know
if,
if
we
don't
have
more
housing
Supply
that
we're
producing
we're
going
to
keep
gentrifying
in
that
kind
of
unhealthy
way,
I
agree.
So.
AB
F
You
drive
around
South,
Burlington
and
just
outside
the
limits,
so
you
see
evidence
of
of
all
these
projects
that
are
listed
here
and
the
ccrpc
has
touched
them
in
some
way
and
you
know
and
Foster
them,
and
so
I'm
I'm
just
grateful
for
all
that
work,
because
a
lot
of
it
has
to
do
with
storm
water
right,
which
has
to
do
with
Lake
Champlain
water
quality,
which
is
really
important
to
our
economy.
So
I
I'm
grateful
for
all
this
work.
F
AC
And
and
I
think
I'll
say
back
at
you,
I
mean
thank
you
for
all
the
city
is
doing
so.
You
know
we
are
really
just
kind
of
a
support
agency
for
the
work
that
our
municipalities
do
and
thank
you
for
everything
that
South
Burlington
does
so
you've
been
doing
a
lot
of
progressive
work,
so
keep
keep
going.
C
Helen
can
I
yes,
yes,
I
also
want
to
add,
there's
there's
a
huge
amount
of
effort
here
on
the
planning
front.
I
think
what's
not
captured
here,
understandably,
so,
is
in
the
absence
of
County
government,
the
role
that
Charlie
and
his
organization
play
in
convening
managers,
competing
Public,
Works
directors,
convening
stormwater
directors
and
really
letting
us
all
learn
from
one
another
and
be
that
opportunity,
oriented
City
that
South
Burlington
has
wanted
to
be
for
years.
So
thank
you
for
all.
AB
AB
AB
This
presentation
will
I
think
be
the
last
official
Act
of
the
climate
action
task
force.
But
what
we're
asking
you
to
begin
today?
The
journey
we're
asking
you
to
begin
on
today
will
be
harder
than
the
last
one
and
that
Journey
will
be
to
transition
our
existing
building
stock
away
from
fossil
fuels.
AB
AB
So
just
leave
you
with
that
thought
as
we
proceed
on
through
this
deck,
so
we
can
skip
right
to
page
four
unless
unless
anyone
would
like
to
go
through
the
other
pages
in
more
detail,
foreign,
okay,
so
I
think
you're
also
all
familiar
with
with
our
plan.
Ethan
presented
it
a
couple
months
ago
and
thank
you
for
approving
it.
AB
The
one
element
of
the
plan
that
this
particular
presentation
addresses
is
is
really
the
first
bullet
in
the
third
paragraph
there,
the
homes
that
need
the
existing
homes
that
need
to
be
electrified
each
year.
As
part
of
the
plan,
and
as
with
all
of
these
goals,
it's
a
it's
a
pretty
daunting
goal.
It's
360
housing
units
a
year
that
we
need
to
Electrify
and
honestly
this
won't
happen
without
some
significant
systemic
change,
and
it's
that
systemic
change
that
we
want
to
talk
about
tonight.
AB
The
particular
amendment
that
Burlington
that
was
made
to
Burlington
Charter
is,
is
there
in
the
first
bullet?
That's
just
word
for
word,
I.
Think
Ethan,
we're
happy
with
that.
We're
not
recommending
any
changes,
I
think
we'll.
If
we
can
do
exactly
what
Burlington
did
I
think
we'll
be
in
in
really
really
good
shape,
I
want
to
say,
before
kind
of
we
go
on
to
the
this
process
that
this
this
changes
is
kind
of
a
small
first
step.
AB
It
doesn't
commit
us
to
do
anything
and,
in
fact,
we'll
probably
want
to
go
back
to
the
voters
if
we
come
up
with
any
policy,
but
it
allows
us
to
begin
a
meaningful
conversation
about
what
the
policy
should
be
and
I'm
happy
to
discuss
what
that
might
look
like
in
the
future.
I'm
I'm
sure
Ethan
has
ideas,
but
that's
not
really
what
tonight
is
about
or
what
the
charter
change
is
about.
AB
So
if
we
can
flip
the
page,
this
is
the
process
and,
as
I
understand,
it
there's
different
routes
that
a
charter
change
can
go
through
chatting
chatting
with
Paul
I.
Think
that
what
what
we're
recommending
is
that,
if
the
council
would
like
to
proceed,
that
the
council
hold
a
hearing
and
then
kind
of
you
know
ideally
conclude
that
this
Charter
chain
should
go
on
the
ballot
in
March,
where
voters
will
get
to
decide
whether
or
not
it's
something
that
this
city
wants
the
council
to
have
the
power
to
do.
AB
If
that
happens,
then
the
City
would
have
the
power
and
the
council
would
then
think
about
how
it
wants
to
exercise
that
power
and
what
regulations
it
wants
to
implement
off
the
back
of
that.
If
those
regulations
contemplate
a
alternative
compliance
payment,
those
regs
would
need
to
go
back
to
the
voters
again.
AB
Think
that
is
really
the
end.
There's
an
appendix
just
I
can
just
go
through
that
quickly.
If
the
council
decides
to
put
this
on
the
ballot,
there's
going
to
be
a
fair
amount.
Well,
let
me
let
me
just
what
happened
with
Burlington
Burlington
approved
the
change
in
November
21
in
the
general
election.
AB
This
spring
it
went
to
the
legislature,
was
signed
by
the
governor
I've,
been
in
actually
Congress
I've,
been
in
contact
with
the
mayor
there
mayor
Weinberger
about
where,
where
they
are,
and
he
believes
that
at
the
beginning
of
December
they
will
have
a
package
that
they
will.
You
know
consider
in
terms
of
what
the
regulations
should
be
and
he
gave
me
some
insight
into
what
he
thinks
that
might
be,
but
he's
not
really
certain
himself
just
says
speculating
about
what
what
that
might
be
and
I'm
happy
to
talk
to
you
about
that.
AB
If,
if
you'd
like
to
and
then
just
we
don't
need
to
go
through
the
rest
of
slides,
but
I
included
some
of
the
FAQs
that
Burlington
put
in
their
materials
when
the
charter
change
went
to
the
voters,
so
folks
could
understand
what
it
was
all
about,
and
then
a
nice
quote
from
the
for
the
mayor
when,
when
the
governor
signed
it,
that's
that's
really.
All
I
have
I
know
it's
late,
so
I'm
gonna,
I'm
gonna,
stop
there
I,
don't
know
either
of
this
well
I
I.
P
Just
think
it's
maybe
worth
playing
out
briefly
that
the
schedule
and
maybe
you've
all
thought
this
through
since
this
is
I-
know
that
this
timing
is
sort
of
driven
by
how
much
lead
time
does
it
take
to
get
something
on
the
ballot
in
March
for
town
meeting
right.
So
if
we
get
something
on
the
South
Burlington
ballot
in
March
23,
the
soonest,
the
legislature
could
take
that
up
as
the
beginning
of
24..
P
If
they
happen
to
take
it
up
at
the
beginning
of
the
session,
we
might
be
able
to
get
something
back
on
our
ballot
to
you
know:
Implement
a
particular
policy
in
March
of
24,
but
more
likely
it'd
be
like
March
of
25
that
we're
talking
about
getting
something
back
on
the
ballot.
So
just
to
be
clear
that
the
urgency
for
today
is,
could
we
maybe
be
on
a
track
to
consider
creating
a
policy
that
would
be
passed
or
be
put
in
front
of
the
voters
in
March
of
25?
P
That's
really
like
the
amount
of
lead,
given
all
the
lags
with
the
part-time
legislature
and
everything
else
in
the
state.
So
the
urgency
here
is,
if
we
at
least
get
something
started,
we
have
a
chance
of
having
an
opportunity
by
March
of
25.
It
might
still
take
longer
than
that.
If
it
takes
us
longer
to
develop
a
policy
it
you
know
could
be.
You
know
hard
to
say,
but
the
more
we
wait,
then
the
more
you
know
we're
always
going
to
have
those
lags
right.
So
that's
the
timing.
A
A
C
Can
I
make
one
comment
on
timing
and
I
agree
with
everything
Ethan
Andrew
just
said
on
timing,
and
do
want
to
say
that
there
is
timing
before
it
goes
to
1080
day
ballot
too.
That
is
very
tight
this
this
winter,
and
this
is
beyond
my
purview.
This
would
be
a
policy
call
of
the
council,
but
another
option,
considering
that
Burlington
has
already
passed
this
and
the
governor
has
already
signed
it.
This
is
the
trouble
with
a
Dylan's
rule
state
right.
C
The
state
could
decide,
given
that
they've
already
given
this
authority
to
one
Community,
to
give
it
to
all
communities
and
to
change
that
through
Title
24,
which
is
the
enabling
legislation
for
municipal
governments.
If
we
really
want
to
make
the
impact
on
the
climate,
Statewide
I
mean
the
state's
climate
change
goals,
doing
it.
251
municipalities
by
municipalities
is
going
to
be
quite
a
heavy
lift.
C
If
the
state
were
just
to
add
this
in
the
next
session
to
Title
24,
which
would
be
their
prerogative,
maybe
with
some
of
our
new
state
reps
leading
the
charge,
then
it
could
go
to
the
ballot
in
in
town
meeting
day
2024
having
passed
through
the
session
in
2023.
So
that
is
I.
That
is
I
know,
that's
not
what
you
all
are
proposing
tonight.
But
that
is
another
path
forward,
given
that
we
have
very
minimal
local
control
in
Vermont.
AB
So
without
those
discussions,
I
am
aware,
have
started,
there's
certainly
receptivity
to
pushing
the
discussions
among
the
our
our
reps
and
I've
I've
actually
been
engaged
in
some
of
those
discussions.
I
would
strongly
recommend
we.
We
do
a
dual
path.
If
that
is
successful,
fantastic
right,
I
would
hope,
honestly
that
the
legislature
is
seeing
us
pushing
this.
We're
also
incent
that
action
at
the
state
level,
so
I,
don't
see
these
things
as
usually
exclusive,
but
I've
seen
them
as
complementary.
P
I
think
for
folks
working
in
this
space,
but
I
completely
agree
with
Andrew
that
the
most
productive
thing
for
South
Burlington
to
do
to
motivate
the
legislature
to
not
want
to
see
these
things
come
up.
100
more
times
is
to
say:
well,
if
you
make
us,
do
it
one
by
one?
Here's
number
two:
when
do
you
want
to
just
cut
to
the
Chase-
and
you
know,
come
up
with
a
better
plan.
B
B
B
So
I
got
past
my
sticker
shock.
Looking
you
know
at
the
future
of
my
children
and
what
choices
they
might
be
having
to
make
in
their
Futures
that
this
is
an
easier
Choice
than
what
I
would
be
asking
them
to
make.
If
I
didn't
make
this
choice,
so
I
am
in
favor
of
this
and
I
do
agree
that
if
it
can
add
impetus
to
the
legislature
to
to
make
sure
that
we
meet
our
our
state
goals
in
in
a
way
that
is
empowering
I.
B
Think
that
why
not
and
I
find
it.
You
know
very
helpful.
There's
a
a
podcast
as
recline
had
Bill
McKibben
on
and
I
found
it
to
be
very
helpful
to
listen
to
us
from
last
week
to
talk
about
the
cost
of
Mining
and
how
it
is
much
more
costly
to
mine
for
fossil
fuels
than
what
we
are
looking
at
with
regard
to
electrifying
our
buildings.
So
all
the
way
around
economically
speaking,
this
is
the
right
way
forward
for
our
residents
and
for
our
future
generations
of
residents.
F
Yeah
so
I'm
trying
to
understand
the
end
game
here
right
so
it
says
it
seems
like
you're
saying
you
want
to
regulate
thermal
systems
and
you
also
possibly
want
to
add
a
carbon
tax.
Basically
right
it
doesn't
say
carbon
tax.
But
that's
what
we're
talking
about
here
is
the
ability
of
this
of
South
Point
into
levia
carbon
tax
for
those
buildings
that
still
are
using
natural
gas,
essentially
right.
F
D
F
Know
are
need
to
replace
replacing
so
in
instances
where
there's
a
permit
required
to
do
a
major
piece
of
infrastructure
change
in
in
a
residence
right
or
in
a
commercial
building
which
I
don't
know.
If
that's
required
or
not,
we
would
have
the
ability
to
have
an
ordinance
to
say
you
can't
replace
it
with
natural
gas
right.
AB
No
I,
don't
think
so.
I
think
this
is
would
give
you
that
power
to
do
that
for
an
existing
I.
Think
for
a
major
renovation.
If
it's
new
construction.
Well,
you
could
help
me
what
new
construction
means,
but
I
think
it's
more
than
just
replacing
a
furnace.
So
this
gives
you
the
power
and
what
I
understand.
One
of
the
things
that
Burlington
is
considering
is
an
end
of
life
rule
which
says
something
like
okay.
AB
If
your
furnace
is
on
the
fritz
and
you
need
to
do
something
new,
you
have
a
choice
you
can
put
in
something
that's
going
to
work
on
Renewables
or
you
can
put
in
something:
that's
not
and
pay
a
carbon
tax
or
a
compliance
fee.
So
that's
kind
of
I
think
something
they're
thinking
about
as
a
possible
end
game.
AB
F
AB
I
think
it's
going
to
be
a
vigorous
discussion,
and
one
thing
I
can
Envision
like
I
said,
is
an
end
of
life
kind
of
policy.
You
know
perhaps
taking
some
of
the
funds
for
people
that
choose
to
use
fossil
fuel
systems
and
putting
it
back
into
the
economy
for
low-income
folks
to
help
them
with
their.
You
know
end-of-life
issues
with
their
with
their
systems,
but
that
that'll,
you
know
that'll,
be
a
debate.
I,
don't
think
we
could
really
I
without
having
the
power
to
do
anything
to
me.
AB
Having
that
detailed
discussion
about
exactly
what
that
looks
like
right
now,
I
I,
guess
that
doesn't
feel
like
the
best
path
to
me.
The
best
best
path
to
me
feels
like
okay,
you
know,
let's
give
ourselves
the
power
to
have
a
meaningful
conversation,
we'll
be
in
a
position
to
see
what
Burlington
has
done
and
then
we'll
figure
out.
How
do
we
get
360
homes
electrified
a
year
in
a
way
it's
Equitable
yeah.
F
F
I
I
want
to
have
I
want
to
have
the
definitive
plan
for
what
the
ordinance
is
going
to
look
like
in
advance,
even
if
it's
five
or
six
years
out
so
then
we
can
say
in
order
to
get
that
we
need
to
have
this
other
thing
happen
within
our
Charters,
so
that
we
can
get
down
that
road,
so
that
people
see
very
clearly
what
could
be
coming.
I
I
don't
want
to
like.
We
could
look,
look.
AB
As
Ethan
said,
this
could
be
a
multi-year
effort
could
be
a
different
Council.
It
could
be
new
technology
right.
All
kinds
of
things
could
change
when,
where
could
be,
different
federal
funds
could
be
different,
federal
policy
right,
there's
so
many
variables
at
the
point
when
and
if
we
may
have
this
power
that
I
could
see
anything
we
come
up
in
today.
You
know
in
any
event
changing
significantly
at
that
point,
but
if.
P
I,
can
you
know
so
emphasize
that
there's
not
necessarily
one
policy
that
will
stand
for
the
next
hundred
years
right
if
we
go
down
this
path
and
have
the
ability
to
create
these
kind
of
regulations,
I
think
it's
very
likely
that
they
will
evolve
over
time
and
change
right.
Once
we
have
the
ability
to
regulate
in
that
area,
then
we
can
try
rolling
things
out
as
Technologies
change
and
become
cost
effective.
The
policy
can
change
as
the
market
changes.
P
So
I
think
that's
why
Burlington
chose
to
do
it
and
part
of
the
reason
why
we
followed
in
the
path
was
because
they
got
a
pretty
good
reception,
both
in
the
legislature
and
from
the
governor
and
looks
like
we're
facing
pretty
similar
conditions.
Although
I
suppose
there
could
be
a
veto
override
this
time
around
that
there
wasn't
last
time
but
I,
don't
think
that's
really
a
scenario
that
we'd
want
to
go
to
anyway.
P
So
I
think
that's
why
it's
it's
a
slightly
more
conservative
path
and
we
don't
think
it's
necessary
to
tell
everyone
exactly
what
the
policy
will
be
because
it
isn't
going
to
trigger
a
unilateral
policy
when
it
comes
into
effect.
It's
just
going
to
be
the
opportunity
to
craft
a
policy
that
then
would
still
go
in
front
of
of
the
South
Burlington
voters,
so
the
details
of
it
are
are
still
you
know
open
to
that
debate.
B
B
If
we
do
nothing
between
now
and
2100,
we
have
a
billion
people
who
are
migrants
in
the
world,
a
billion
people,
but
your
children,
my
children,
are
your
grandchildren
are
going
to
be
dealing
with
the
political
Fallout
of
that
and
we're
going
to
be
having.
If
we
do
nothing
we're
going
to
be
having
all
kinds
of
blackouts
and
I
mean
I
think
that
this
is
not
going
to
be
something
that
happens
overnight,
but
we
have
to
be
responsible
now
so
that
our
children
have
easier
choices
to
make
than
what
we
would
be
leaving
to
them.
AB
We
have
to
be
able
to
walk
in
chew
gum.
At
the
same
time,
we
have
to
both
Electrify
and
we
have
to
find
new
supplies,
a
country
and
improve
our
grid,
and
the
inflation
reduction
act
goes
a
long
way
through
buying
the
tools
to
folks
to
do
that,
and
we
all
have
to
be
in
together
to
push
that,
because
we
have
no
choice.
That
is
what
we
need
to
do
as
a
state
and
as
a
country
for
our
children.
We
have
to
be
able
to
do
that.
P
I
like
to
point
out
there,
there
are
other
cities
who
are
doing
this,
who
don't
have
a
municipal
electric
utility,
so
I,
don't
think
the
municipal,
Electric
utilities
are
prerequisite
and
while
eversource
and
other
utilities
down
south
may
be
concerned
about
their
power
supply.
Green
Mountain
Power's
been
asked
about
this
before
and
has
said
that
they
have
no
concerns
about
this
and
they're
already
taking
a
lot
of
steps
to
put
load
Management
Systems
in
place
to
make
sure
that
the
capacity
is
not
going
to
be
an
issue.
P
B
Right
and
I
can't
imagine
that
a
governmental
body
would
choose
at
a
point
where
our
grid
is
going
to
go
under
to
just
say:
oh
well,
I
mean
I
everything.
We
have
to
be
reactive
to
the
situation
at
hand,
and
this
simply
gives
I
think
us
the
opportunity
to
educate
our
our
community.
We've
passed
climate
action
plan.
B
We've
seen
the
ambitious
goals
that
our
task
force
have
given
us
in
order
for
us
to
remain
true
to
the
goals
that
we
set
ourselves
as
a
body,
we
set
those
goals
for
our
community,
so
we
are
responsible
now
for
leading
that
discussion
and
I
think
that
this
discussion
has
to
start
with
this
discussion.
I
I.
A
AD
So
I
think
I
have
a
few
comments.
One,
the
cost
of
switching
over
from
a
natural
gas
furnace
to
heat
pumps
is
extensive.
You
have
all
the
duct
work
for
the
furnace
and
the
heat
pumps
have
a
totally
different
infrastructure
and
most
companies
which
install
heat
pumps
tell
you.
You
should
have
backup
systems
for
when
it
gets
extremely
cold.
AD
If
you
want
to
get
the
best
of
the
best
heat
pumps
which
can
deal
with
zero
degree,
temperatures,
those
are
enormously
expensive
and
even
then
physics
will
not
allow
you
to
extract
heat
from
Air
which
doesn't
have
much
heat,
so
you're
always
going
to
need
backup
systems.
You
just
can't
survive
in
Vermont
unless
you
have
a
backup
system,
so
you
can
never
totally
get
rid
of
a
backup
heating
system
which
uses
fossil
fuels,
but
in
a
larger
in
a
larger
context,
you're
really
not.
Looking
at
the
big
picture.
AD
Let
me
give
you
an
example:
all
of
you
are
breathing
the
very
fact
that
you
and
eight
billion
other
people
on
planet
Earth
are
breathing
releases
about
three
gigatons
three
billion
tons
of
carbon
dioxide
into
the
atmosphere.
Every
year
the
carbon
dioxide
released
when
you
breathe,
is
no
different
than
the
carbon
dioxide
released
when
fossil
fuels
are
burned.
There
are
many
contributing
factors
to
the
buildup
of
CO2
in
the
atmosphere,
and
all
of
Vermont
is
estimated
to
produce
10
million
tons
of
greenhouse
gases.
That's
all
of
Vermont,
not
just
South
Burlington.
AD
It's
it's
insulting
and
it's
degrading
and
I
am
one
people
know
me
95
to
98
of
my
trips
are
by
foot
or
by
bicycle.
I
always
try
to
reduce
my
carbon
footprint
to
the
lowest
possible
manner
possible.
I
keep
my
temperature
at
about
55
in
the
house.
I
use
about
100
kilowatts
of
electricity
every
month
on
a
yearly
basis.
I
do
everything
possible,
but
when
somebody
tells
me
they
want
me
to
dump
my
fossil
fuel
system
so
that
we
can
beat
our
chest
like
Tarzan.
AB
Could
I
address
some
of
those
comments?
Would
that
be
okay,
sure
Jerry?
Thank
you
for
those
comments.
I'd
love
to
have
a
conversation
with
you
a
little
bit
about
the
science.
We
can
talk
about
the
carbon
cycle
to
to
the
breathing
point.
I
think
that's,
probably
not
how
it
works
and
again
I'd
love
to
love
to
sit
down
with
you
and
talk
that
through
in
terms
of
the
technology.
The
technology
is
improving.
All
the
time.
I
just
read
about
a
trained
ducted
system
that
works
down
to
minus
23
degrees.
Centigrade.
AB
It's
never
been
that
cold
in
Burlington,
it's
never
been
minus
23,
the
lowest
temperature
was
like
minus
21
like
30
years
ago,
so
those
systems
are
coming.
They
work
great.
They
you
can
just
replace
your
existing
furnace
and
and
and
pop
that
in
and
by
the
time
we're
in
a
position
to
implement
this.
That
stuff
will
be
available
widely
available.
It's
tons
of
incentives
and
inflation
reduction
act
and
we're
not
requiring
anyone
to
pull
out
something.
AB
V
A
M
Oh,
it
wasn't
looked
like
it
was
to
me.
The
committee
met
the
other
night.
It
was
really
the
first
time
most
of
us
heard
about
this
proposal
and,
as
you
know,
we
have
a
fairly
major
project
going
on
about
the
charter
and
we're
more
than
happy
to
take
this
into
the
charter
committee
and
include
it
in
our
work
effort.
M
M
I
think
we
can
get
a
feel
for
the
community
before
it
goes
to
a
vote
and
report
that
back
part
of
our
direction
from
the
council
was
to
share
with
the
community
the
issues
that
we're
talking
about
and
at
that
time
we
would
also
share
this
issue
and
we
could
bring
those
feelings
back
to
the
council.
I
think
this
is
being
rushed
and
a
charter
is
not
something
you
change
really
quickly
like
that.
I,
don't
think
so.
A
A
You
know
by
in
Paris
by
the
United
States
by
our
state
that
you
know
I
I,
just
in
this
case
I
think
this
is
a
different
kind
of
Charter
change
and
so
I
I
guess
I,
don't
agree
with
you
that
it
really
should
come
from
the
charter
committee
I.
Think
we're
not
talking
about
testing
getting
a
sense
of
the
community
on
this
as
much
as
asking
the
legislature
that
we
feel
our
community
should
have
the
ability
to
think
creatively
thoughtfully.
A
In
a
very
specific
way
about
how
we
can
reduce
carbon
use
and
what
that
might
be,
we
don't
know
at
this
point,
but
we
need
the
I
guess.
I
think
we
need
the
push
to
have
that
conversation
to
get
somewhere,
I,
I,
Tim,
I,
just
I,
don't
think
I
think
we'd
be
spinning
our
Wheels
if
we
waited
for
well.
This
is
exactly
what
we
should
do
in
five
years
in
this
community,
because
I
think
the
technology
is
going
kind
of
fast.
A
F
I'll
agree
with
this:
if
you
remove
the
assessment
of
the
carbon
impact
and
alternative
compliance
payments,
if
you
remove
that
statement,
just
say
to
regulate
thermal
energy
systems
and
residential
commercial
buildings
for
the
purpose
of
reducing
greenhouse
gas
emissions
throughout
the
city
period,
I'll
I'll
agree
to
that.
But
I
want
to
read
to
the
other
part,
because
it's
just
it's
too
amorphous
and
you
don't
have
a
well
enough
to
find
end-game.
Ordnance
structure
that
you're
proposing.
F
F
P
It
doesn't
require
the
council
to
to
pass
a
carbon
tax.
You
could
pass
a
policy
that
had
no
carbon
tax
on
it
and
it
would
be
perfectly
within
this
rights.
I
mean
there's
other
things,
I'm
sure
in
the
Charter
that
you
don't
utilize,
but
that
you're
allowed
to
utilize.
So
I
guess
that's.
My
concern
is
about
the
the
speed
given
that
we're
already
behind
on
the
goals,
and
there
aren't
a
lot
of
other
levers
that
are
very
large
to
to
pull
to
do.
You
know
to
move
this
emissions
bucket.
B
And
we
are
always
beholden
to
the
public
and
I.
You
know
I
think
that
too
is
important
and
was
part
of
my
thinking.
You
know
I
that
led
me
to
to
you
know,
consider
this
as
as
a
as
a
Way
Forward
is
they're
going
to
be
voting
on
it.
They're
going
to
be
voting
on
the
counselors
they're
going
to
be
voting,
I
mean
they
will
be
a
part
of
the
process
all
the
way
through
this
Council
or
any
future
council
could
never.
AE
I
know,
but
anyway,
I
love,
Zoom
or
I
love
go
to
meetings,
I
I.
Thank
you,
counselors
for
being
taking
this
so
seriously,
and
spending
so
much
time
on
this,
and
obviously
for
the
climate
action
task
force,
I,
respect,
Jerry,
Silverstein
and
I
know
he
does
a
lot
for
the
environment,
but
but
one
of
the
well
two
of
the
comments
he
made
I'd
like
to
chime
in
on,
and
that
is
yes
in
the
big
scheme
of
things.
What
we
do
here
in
South
Burlington
is
rather
small.
AE
AE
AE
The
issue
with
going
to
the
Charter
committee
I
respect
their
work.
However,
that's
business
as
usual:
we
are
past
business
as
usual.
If
we're
ever
going
to
have
a
survivable
world,
we've
got
to
act
like
our
house
is
on
fire
and
so
in
all
due
haste,
this
is
going
to
take
years,
but
to
push
it
down
for
because
it's
not
perfect,
because
it
makes
maybe
a
Tim
a
little
bit
uncomfortable
with
that
language.
A
C
So
if
if
in
Paul's
memo,
he
outlines
a
direction
at
the
end,
if
you
want
to
move
this
forward
to
time
the
window
to
do
that
is
actually
very
very
short.
We
would
recommend
that
if
you
want
to
move
it
forward
at
your
next
special
meeting
on
November
30th,
that
you
look
at
ballot
language,
which
is
on
the
presentation
but
officially
look
at
that
language
and
warn
a
public
hearing,
you're
required
to
have
two
public
hearings
before
you
finalize
the
language
for
the
ballot.
A
C
U
Fabric
yeah
that
that's
so
essentially,
you
have
to
have
there's
a
set
amount
of
notice.
You
have
to
have
required
for
each
public
hearing
and
it's
between
40
and
30
days,
30
and
40
days,
advanced
notice
of
posting
around
around
the
municipality
so
to
to
meet
that
timeline,
and
you
also
have
to
consider
that
ballots
are
printed
at
the
end
of
January.
So
to
meet
all
those
kind
of
considerations.
U
Really
the
best
way
to
do
it
that
you
already
have
a
special
meeting
on
the
books
is
to
utilize
November
30th,
to
have
a
to
have
a
meeting
where
you
would
make
this
proposal
to
make
the
charter
change,
then
you
would
have
probably
the
two
public
hearings.
One
would
be
in
early
January.
One
would
be
in
later
January.
U
A
A
B
A
X
A
D
X
A
X
So
you
all
have
received.
This
is
probably
the
third
time,
second
or
third
time
that
I've
been
back
to
visit
with
you
all
for
this
Municipal
request.
I
just
want
to
bring
out
some
highlights.
Besides
our
team
of
capable
field
producers
such
as
Travis,
who
are
here
to
help
you
and
help
the
public
access
this
meeting
using
the
hybrid
technology.
Add
titles
and
clickable
agendas
share
links
and
share
Clips
too
activate
the
public
and
get
them
involved.
X
X
So
that's
a
million
that
would
go
to
24
different
access,
centers
around
the
state
and
that's
to
tide
us
over
until
we
can
come
up
with
some
sort
of
policy
change.
I
think
it
may
have
been
somebody
here
on
the
council
that
was
pointing
out
the
way
that
we're
funding
a
lot
of
things
like
cable
access,
this
public
good
his
legacy.
You
know
it's
on
the
it's
we're
we're
funding
the
public
right-of-way
using
this
outdated
policies
around
regulating
cable.
X
X
A
X
G
X
G
X
Well,
it
depends
on,
if
you
want
to
have
depends
on
the
how
long,
how
how
much
detail
you
want
to
get
into
the
titling
of
That
So.
Currently
with
the
city
council
meetings
like
we
titled
per
agenda-
hey
Dom,
so
that
folks
know
what's
going
on
and
then
we
add
agenda
markers
to
them.
So
there
there
are
levels
to
that
that
we
could
discuss.
X
X
G
X
No,
and
in
fact
you
know,
I
mean
this
is
a
this
is
a
thing
that
all
municipalities
are
going
to
have
to
come.
You
know
figure
out
at
some
point
like
when
the
pandemic
happened.
There
were
folks
that
just
you
know
that
the
planning
staff
on
their
laptop
is
storing
all
these
meetings
and
then
what
do
you
do
with
them?
Do
you
then,
do
you
buy
storage
and
then
do
you
buy
redundant
storage
and
then
do
you
come
up
with
a
metadata
system
and
that's
what
we
have
that's?
X
X
C
C
So
Megan
I'm,
sorry
I,
didn't
think
of
tasked
this
before
in
your
memo.
Just
because
we
are,
we
are
down
to
looking
at
the
500
000
in
our
fy24
budget.
You
say
in
the
text
that
the
fy24
request
is
22.50,
but
in
the
chart
below
and
I
think
I've
screwed
this
up
before,
with
your
fiscal
years
being
slightly
different
than
ours,
it's
23
152..
It's.
C
X
C
X
A
X
F
X
We
are
working,
we
are
working
together,
we're
collaborating
and
we
work
together
right
now
around
making
sure
that
the
legislature,
the
hybrid
systems,
are
accessible
both
to
the
media
and
to
the
public,
and
that
there's
some
logical
way.
So
we're
doing
some
advocacy
work
on
that
front
together,
our
missions
are
a
little
different
and
our
history
is
different,
but
you
know:
okay,
yeah,.
A
A
X
I
think
everybody's
been
it
feels
like
a
pretty
friendly
group.
I
think
we
have
a
really
good
team
right
now
of
folks.
The
work
has
really
changed
in
the
last
two
years,
so
we're
kind
of
grappling
with
that
as
we're
coming
back,
I
mean
we
keep
saying
as
we're
coming
back
and
you
may
feel
like
you've
been
back
longer,
I
had
a
field
producer
who
just
went
to
their
first
big
in-person,
totally
just
recording
you
know
there
was
no
live
streaming.
There
was
no
hybrid
composed
just
a
camera
and
a
recording,
and
it
was
like.
X
Oh,
this
is
like
back
in
the
old
days
and
that's
you
know
two
and
a
half
years
after
the
pandemic
started,
and
so
our
you
know
in
some
communities
they
can't
have
a
meeting.
If
we're
not
there.
Now
that's
a
different,
that's
a
different
thing
that
we're
doing
and
a
different
lift
for
our
field
staff
so
and
we're
struggling
the
same
way
that
everybody
is
like
making
sure
folks
are
compensated
well
and
taken
care
of
to
do
the
work
that
they're
doing
so.
G
A
X
D
A
A
G
G
The
legislative
committee
on
Ministry
of
rules
voted
four
to
two
to
pass
the
clean
car,
the
low
and
zero
emission
vehicle
regulation,
which
requires
all
auto
dealers
in
Vermont
to
receive
delivery
of
electric
vehicles
or
zero
emission
vehicles
in
greater
numbers,
starting
in
2026
at
35
percent
of
their
inventory,
going
up
to
100
of
their
inventory
in
2035
similar,
but
different
requirements
also
for
trucks
class.
Three
and
up
that
includes
ambulances
and
fire
trucks,
garbage
trucks.
Even
Oil
Trucks
have
to
meet
a
different
standard
for
reaching.
G
G
The
challenge
will
be-
and
you'll
hear
from
me
on
this
on
other
occasions,
which
is
it
doesn't
automatically
mean
that
our
local
dealers
will
get
those
cars.
There
has
to
be
certain
Investments
that
have
to
be
made
in
order
to
accommodate
the
electric
vehicle
specifically
having
four
ports-
150
KW,
DC,
fast
Chargers,
so
that
investment
will
have
to
be
made
by
the
local
dealers
in
order
to
take
delivery
of
the
electric
vehicles
from
their
oems,
their
original
equipment
manufacturers,
and
that
might
involve
more
impervious
surface.
G
A
B
B
M
G
Yes,
the
answer:
do
you
really
question?
Look
it
up
on
eia,
4.2
million
gallons
of
Jedi
fuel
in
Vermont,
according
the
Energy
Information
Administration,
and
about
450
million
gallons
of
Avgas?
That's
what
goes
into
Lake
Cessnas
and
those
types
of
plants
by
comparison.
South
Burlington
uses
a
couple
hundred
thousand
gallons
of
heating
oil
about
about
five
million
gallons
of
aviation
fuel,
though.
B
F
Aye
aye
and
I
now
move
that
the
board
enter
into
executive
session
for
the
purpose
of
discussing
contract
negotiations
pending
or
probable
litigation
to
which
a
city
is
or
may
be.
A
party
and
confidential
attorney
Communications,
inviting
Jesse
Baker
Andrew
bullduck,
Chief,
Steve,
Locke,
Chief,
Sean,
Burke
and
Colin.