Chittenden County, Vermont City of Winooski, 23 Jan 2023

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From YouTube: Winooski City Council - 1/23/2023

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Call To Order 00:00:00
Council Reports 00:01:16
FY 24 Budget & Capital Plan 00:11:58
Quarterly Treasurer's Report 01:12:16
Sidewalk Use Change 01:17:47
FY24 Town Meeting Warning 01:43:44
Winooski PD K-9 Program 01:53:39
Strategic Vision Area Update 02:15:51
Just Cause Evictions 02:19:57
City Manager Review Process 03:09:39

Total Run Time: 03:11:36

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A

Okay, I will now call to order this regular meeting of the Winooski city council. Please join us in the Pledge of Allegiance, led by Deputy Mayor Jim Duncan.

A

The States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, you're welcome. Okay! Next is a gender review. uh We have heard that our auditor will not be able to make it this evening. Would someone like to make a motion to table an item D so moved second motion by Prince? Second, by Thomas, all those in favor, please say.

B

A

Aye motion carries uh any other agenda review items. Oh all, right.

A

It's time for public comment. Any public comment back there all right, there's no one attending on Zoom either. um So we will move to council reports. Aurora can I start with you.

C

Sure I don't have a Facebook report. um This Wednesday morning, though, is the second in-person meeting of Ideal Vermont, um which I will be attending along with inclusion and belonging chair, Parker, silver, excellent.

D

The infrastructure commission met this past Thursday, we elected new officers, so Brian Borah will be chair, uh Michelle Metzler will be Vice. Chair Jason will be continuing on. He has been serving as the chair um this past year. It's been really valuable to have him after transitioning from lower to legally lucky after seven years in that role.

D

So it's been tough shoes to fill so um he's staying on a secretary uh and then in the meeting we just had a lot of discussion around work plan for the remainder of this fiscal year um and a lot of questions around travel projects. So it was mainly the chunk of it we'll meet again on February 16th.

A

All right, thank you.

A

um I just want to express our heartfelt thanks um to Janet Burrard for 32 years of service as the deputy city clerk I, don't know if she's watching this somewhere um I'll also tell her this in person, but um she will be leaving our service in I. Think before the next meeting um just wanted to acknowledge the Decades of good work that she has done for the city, she will be missed.

A

E

Thank you. My updates today involve the airport commission and the Housing Commission, so the airport commission met on Wednesday and discussed a number of capital projects that are underway.

E

um Of note to uh that might be a particular interest to this municipality to the city. Is that the noise exposure monitoring sorry, noise exposure mapping update is about to restart for the next round and that we have additional presence data for F-35, so they'll be reconvening The Advisory Group, including the original membership, or at least invitations out to original membership sometime in the next couple weeks, um so that'll be a process starting up. The other piece at the airport commission reviewed was up um recent noise complaints from the airport's noise monitoring systems.

E

As a reminder, residents can submit comments through the airport's noise monitoring system and those can be tied to specific plane tracks. It's particularly useful for commercial flights. The commission or the staff support for the commission did note that they have not been able to get useful data from the air guard on complaints around F-35 flights, which is the group that normally takes in those complaints.

E

So, there's no real way to Overlay the noise complaint data from military flights with the civilian flights, so the the the numbers reported in the complaint monitoring system May are not really representative of the F-35 flights, primarily just the civilian flights.

E

uh The Housing Commission had a extra long meeting on Thursday, where we talked primarily about our housing chapter ordinance, uh chapter nine and uh we received a number of Staff updates and a lot of discussion around some changes proposed to that ordinance. That would uh first of all in order would Define short-term rentals. It's a term that has not been defined in our ordinances previously, so that'll be useful for future discussions around uh if and how to consider short-term rentals in the city uh it focused on.

E

uh We talked about trash again, um it's a common topic for the Housing Commission during these quality of life and health and safety um questions in housing, ordinances uh specifically talking about um what type of rubbish clearing constitutes a violation of the ordinance and also adding enforceability to the ordinance, so that if there is rubbish accumulation, whether it's on the owner or on the occupant or the manager or whichever whoever the responsible party is that it gives code enforcement, the ability to actually write a ticket for that violation which currently is missing and some more definition on the types of things that count as rubbish, such as uh broken appliances or couches, left out in yards.

E

um We probably spent the most time talking about minimum Rune size and I'm sorry to spend some time in these, but we did talk about it quite a bit and I think it's worth alerting this group to the fact that our current ordinance is Define, a certain minimum area, requirements for housing people and when the number of people exceeds that space. The code enforcement is kind of left in a pickle.

E

So discussing these minimum room sizes and additional uh sleeping areas is really something that we should be paying attention to, as this ordinance is Rewritten because we know we have limited supply of housing, but when you have overcrowding and creative life safety risk, so we need to be balancing these as a community. So there'll be more discussion on that.

E

Finally, the commission did discuss the uh fact sheet around the just cause: eviction, Charter change, um petition and I'll save uh findings from that for our item later in the agenda. Sorry for the long report, but thank you for listening. Thank.

A

F

um Excuse me: a lot downtown Windows came out last Wednesday and the majority of the meeting was Arab, came and presented um the sidewalk changes. I think it was a very fruitful meeting. I, don't know if you're sharing that craft tonight um but I think I was going to talk about that later. So I'll just leave it at that.

A

All right, let's move to City updates Elaine.

G

So, as you know, we're continuing the fiscal year 2024 budget meetings tonight with the final budget vote by Council on what will be presented to the voters, be sure to keep an eye out for our official town meeting day, announcements, which will include all of the budget meeting and election information that you need.

G

We will have a joint budget presentation on community dinner, with the Winooski School District, sponsored by the Winooski partnership for prevention on February, 9th at the O'brien Community Center, and the annual town meeting Day presentation at the Winooski School District on March 6th. If you have questions, feel free to call or email 655-6410, the city hall or you can email budget moneyspvt.gov, you can also reach out to any City councilor or staff by visiting lanusk evt.gov contract.

G

If you're interested in running for a local office on town meeting today, the deadline is coming up. That's to file paperwork, 5 PM on Monday January 30.. There are two city council seats up for election and three School District seats up for election. The two city council seats are for two-year terms. The school district seats are the treasurer for a three-year term and two School District trustees seats, one for a three-year term and the other for a two-year term to appear on the ballot.

G

You must be a Winooski resident and file a consent of candidate form and a petition with a minimum of 30 signatures to the city clerk's office, again by 5 PM January 30.. If.

B

You have any questions about.

G

This process, please do contact the city clerk's office again at 655-6410 clerk.

B

G

Ebt.Gov or come into City Hall at 27, West Allen, Street, 7, 30 to 4 30 each day, Monday through Friday.

G

As a reminder, the Vermont Department of Health will be closing all state-run walk-in vaccination clinics by January 31st local Health offices will continue to help vaccinate. Anyone who does not have a primary care provider or a local pharmacy accessible. If you need coca-19 test kits, they are available for free at City Hall at the city of cities, library and the senior center during regular hours and.

B

Finally, the city of Winooski.

G

Will send a press release today by the Vermont Air National Guard and will be performing night flying from Tuesday January 17th to Friday January 20 and from Tuesday January 24 to Friday I'm? Sorry, this is a little bit dated so that it would be um tomorrow. January 24th through January 27th is what's now um going into. The future was to take off and Landing periods scheduled between 1 pm and 8 PM. There.

B

Are no scheduled.

G

Morning, flights, their press release was shared on our city channels,.

A

The healing, um I mistakenly skipped the consent agenda. uh We have Council minutes from January 17th and accounts payable warrant from January 19th. Do you have a motion to approve? Let's remove. Second.

F

A

By bring second by Thomas, all those in favor, please say: aye motion carries thank you.

A

Okay, we are on to regular items. uh First Up is on for discussion the public hearing to receive comments on the proposed fy24 budget and capital plan. Do you want to do a brief, intro woman? Yes,.

G

So, on December 5th, 2022, the city manager. That's me.

H

G

Overview of the FY 24 proposed budget to city council, since that meeting Council has received presentations from each department just and they discussed cuts and ads at the January 17th meeting and approved on a four to one vote. The following adjustments to the city, manager's recommended budget, increasing the Housing Initiative director from 30 to 40 hours per week. Maintaining the youth interventionist at 28 hours per week, including a mediated Community, Voice or or engagement funds for Community mediated, Community Voice, or engagement at eight thousand dollars.

G

Reducing supplies, budget for recreational programs by four thousand dollars and removing the second Library circulation assistant for an F. This uh combined is an fy24 proposed general fund budget, total of nine million two hundred and forty two thousand thirty two dollars and eighty seven cents, which would constitute an estimated 5.09 tax rate increase over FY 23 the current year that we're in okay.

A

A

A public hearing did we notice this already? Yes, yes,.

B

A

A public hearing has been noticed for the consideration of the fy24 proposed general fund budget. uh At this time, I would like to open the public hearing. So any public comment in the room tonight.

A

I see there is a raised hand in Zoom Paul. Please bring your intra over.

I

Under whenever you're ready.

J

A

You hear me: yes, welcome, Indra.

J

Here again and I, don't think that uh before I begin saying anything that I have to say, I just want y'all to kind of go on an imaginary journey of like yeah. There is a city, that's the most okay talks about being diverse and takes pride in that, but I also recognizes uh either to make the audio purpose.

J

Your experience from bike park, members of the community that racism is prevalent in the community in the school system, be at the local government level and when there is a time to decide on the funding, despite all those people, talks about equity and whatnot. The first item to cut is racial Equity manufacturing the same.

J

But rather, as a you know, critical human being, how would you feel you feel? That is something really concerning to me and in the last meeting Julian talked about the program. I am happy to say that I immediately I've said this. Video in terms of the city of Union, City I, am happy to give my labor I mean right now, but I'm pretty sad, because I really do see in the future, but like when I see that we love pants and the hesitation to spend the money.

J

Despite all this talk about it, I am really frustrated like I am frustrated, and it's not not only me like I Facebook messages, text messages that I've gotten from people. They cannot come to the meeting because it's Monday at CDM- and you know there is a black woman yeah 15 years and she was like I- would really love to show up in.

J

In her words like I'm, not gonna, censor myself, it is up if you're not prioritizing everybody is he can't show up in the meeting, because it's Monday evening so I don't know what is left to be done. You all have uh and I am pretty aware that you understand the importance of this work, but I I, just I just didn't understand like if thousand dollar out of the city government was it. We are a racial Equity.

J

Director could not even stay in the pollution for too long like I, don't know, what's going on in your mind, like you're talking about it and please like if we want to talk about the diversity being a big thing for the City of Houston. If you want to continue writing that I think every single statement that will be right like spend some money, our budgets is value in in the world. Is it proposed, get thousands are 100 like racial Equity?

J

It really didn't show me that you don't care about racializing, and that is a disservice to a lot of people, including I, who has suffered at the relationship. I've had Shopper and it's documented out there. So please do something about it. That's all I have to say I hope you all put action into the things.

J

And I know that in a budgeting process, what we do is we ask what is origin and what is the most important thing for our city? That's the first question: everybody asked in the budgeting process and if racial equity, if racial Justice, is not a top priority for me to see, and if you're just say it out loud, just say it out loud: it did not fall under the foreign.

J

A

Thank you, Indra I do want to share that. We we've had this discussion.

A

um The eight thousand dollars for the engagement program and the money for interpretation are not the only Investments that we see ourselves making towards racial Justice.

A

I, don't have the numbers offhand, but the additional time that we're funding for child care, the youth, interventionist position, Recreation assistant and admin Outreach coordinator are all tied to the ability to deliver the services. We already do with more focus on Equity.

A

um These previously Grant funded roles have created more accessibility to local government for the community, um so we have prioritized retaining those, as well as the funding for the Housing Initiative director to address concerns.

A

One of the primary concerns coming from the equity audit, so I understand the position or the feelings around the equity director role, um but I believe that the you know the thinking coming from staff and some members of council is that we are still prioritizing this, but in different ways, more related to direct service, potentially than having a strategic director role, which we do hope to bring back in the future. It is not like permanently cut.

J

But you know I have seen this discussion happen nationally. We are happy to add this program. That program may definitely be an issue, but when it comes to naming Authority group, whether you said a particular program focus on fighting about people who have historically suffer and the hands up and the lack of action from the city of uh Lucy and then you said not Romanians like we don't we don't want to do that, but there will be a program that will increase Equity but like let's name it graceful inequity is a problem in the city.

J

If we all want to have a conversation about it, whether or not that's true after you, let's open up the audio group report, but that is the CCD growth problem. Listening and I kept seeing it at a national level like we'll. Do the party build we'll do this we'll do a community service, let's name the people who are the most marginalized and that's where we go? Oh, we can't do that so I mean I'm not going to take a lot of time, but I think I made my point clear. So thank you. Thank.

A

A

Okay, I, don't see any other public.

C

Yeah can I read um a letter that came in from the NAACP to members of council sure.

A

It's a little duplicative but go ahead.

C

So I think I think it's important to recognize that we're getting um these comments from many different areas. So uh just for those who might not know the NAACP stands for National National Association for the advancement of colored people.

C

um They sent a brief letter today, just uh voicing their concern that reads: dear Winooski, City councilors, the Vermont branch of the NAACP are disappointed and surprised to hear that the city has not has decided not to keep the racial Justice director position primarily due to the large volume of bipoc people living in the area. The city's decision to allocate only eight thousand dollars towards racial Equity initiatives is more than reprehensible.

C

When the city has a millions of dollar budget as City officials, it is vital that you make time for and prioritize what you care about. If this budget is a reflection or a manifestation of your values, then we indeed are worried for the citizens of winooski's ability to have an unbiased voice representing them at the table. We hope that you strategically think about and then reconsider this decision. We look forward to being in in touch soon.

A

Thank you all right, so seeing no additional comment. I will close the public hearing and we will move to Item B, which is discussion or approval of the fy24 general fund budget and capital plan. To present two voters.

A

Okay, this is essentially just are we ready to vote on what we voted on last week and move that forward? Are there additional questions, thoughts, comments.

C

um I I do have some things that I would like to put forward.

C

um The first is and I believe this is the most appropriate part of our agenda to address these items. I would like to make a motion to include the equity director and its salary as a separate budgetary item on the ballot.

A

There's a motion on the table.

F

Or would you be accepting of alteration to that motion? Oh.

C

F

um I agree with what Christina said. Well sorry, what the mayor had said last week about not wanting to put individual positions on um the on the voters on town meeting day, but I wonder if, instead, we could put the principle of equity of equity and what that would cost the city on the budget.

F

Oh sorry, I can't talk on the vote instead, so say: allotting a certain amount of money that would be used to pay for the equity director and any other Equity programs that the city were to engage in and then we wouldn't be voting for just one position, but the ethos of what we're looking to get.

A

I have similar concerns about piecemealing the budget for voters.

A

You know all we're allowed to put on the ballot is a total number of dollars and, if we're not willing to do our work of presenting a budget that meets priorities and is still fiscally responsible, I I, don't think when you go into the ballot and see those total dollars. If you aren't following along it's really hard to know how that's going to impact you.

C

However, we are going to be discussing and presenting the budget where we can discuss those items. I I'm concerned that, especially with your example last time, there a lot that that was kind of a false equivalency and it's not taking into account uh this. You know we've acknowledged that this is a very, very difficult budget year. That is something that we've talked about in detail um and this what I see is we are proposing to cut a very important position that many residents feel the city needs.

C

We are also acknowledging that we don't want to raise taxes in a way that would be too inequitable as well, so acknowledging that, especially because the model of Taxation property taxes used, isn't income sensitive, so acknowledging that that in itself does have an equity component.

C

It's for that reason that recognizing kind of these two items of the city needs to provide the residents what it needs with. Also the city not wanting to burden the residents in a way I feel like that makes it a appropriate to put this to the ballot. I think you know, maybe that's not the way.

C

We've always done it, but you know that's an excuse for a lot, so I personally see that I don't feel comfortable supporting the budget as it currently stands, because I don't think it prioritizes equity in the way that you believe it does. We got from uh last time. We got unfunded needs from the staff that didn't include a lot of the unfunded needs that fall under Equity, including items like Howard's.

C

Current zoning has contributed to racial and economic segregation in the city that has been documented as part of the equity audit, as well as like the issues of public transportation, how best to support the eight winooski's aging population, the language access plan. We have a lot of on and underfunded Equity needs, and if we're not, you know, I'm, just asking us to prioritize those in the same way we're prioritizing and keeping in mind other unfunded needs.

C

So I um appreciate and like the the framing that uh councilor Renner has proposed, which, if you don't feel comfortable, asking for a specific position on a specific, an amount might be um a better solution.

A

For me, it has the same problem.

E

I I would struggle with what goes into how we would describe the existing commitment of this budget to equity I. Consider of the things that you've listed I don't see any of those being solved by having an equity director and the things that we are investing in like sidewalks and uh non-non.

E

First come first serve electronic registration for Community programming and after school like those are those are things that actually address some of those very issues and in terms of access to services in the city for seniors or serving our kids, who are predominant, who are majority not like who you know who come from a school district where uh the majority of people speak another language aside from English, like that's a huge investment. So how do we quantify that? And the answer is we won't be able to?

E

We can provide an estimate, so the question would be we're already putting this much in. Do we do more, and how do we rank that against the things that we would take? I, just don't know how you would frame that in a way that gives people gives the voters in ballot language, clear picture of what's already being invested in equity and solving some of these direct Equity challenges.

E

You can have them, weigh that against a position or I, don't even know what the additional body of work is that, like that's, that hasn't been defined. That's completely isolated from the existing Equity Investments, we're already making so I think if there's a way to frame that question about what is our relative, like is equity, a thing that this community is committed to I, guess I, don't feel like I need the voters to tell me that's already true and I. Don't think that we need a number, because we couldn't put it in the budget anyways.

E

It could provide direction to the next round, but I don't see that putting.

B

E

In it is I think problematic in a number of ways asking a client, the question of principle I think is important, as it would be interesting to know, but I don't think it would change. My perception of the community's needs, which is to focus on equity and I, feel like this budget. Does that.

C

I can understand that, however kind of what I'm hearing is. We know there are these needs, but we're not going to put money aside to figure out how to address them like some of that is. The thing is like: we need to figure out how to address them. The way this budget is presented as oh, we are addressing some needs, but we don't feel we want to advance and increase our Equity work, so we're going to deprive prioritize it in this budget.

C

Acknowledging that yes, please, questions will come up again next budget season, but if we are not, what we're saying is we're not going to think about equity in the way that it needs to be thought about we're not going to put funds aside that we can then, if we're not comfortable, doing an equity director position that that we can then explore other Alternatives, like maybe increasing or exploring a a more robust way to have that that community outreach plan that takes into account that people aren't going to come to us.

C

We need contractors and to pay leaders in the community to reach out to community members who are disenfranchised, who don't trust the government or don't quite understand what we do to explain that before they can then come to the table as members of the community that are underrepresented and present what they need or comment on what the city is doing and how that affects them.

C

So, while I can acknowledge that, maybe the equity director position at this time isn't the best way to go, I also, don't think saying we're not going to set aside any money to do this work, whether it's contract work, whether it's paying community members, whether it's doing additional translation work, additional Outreach I, it just doesn't sit right with me. We're setting aside money for.

A

That yeah in this budget.

E

C

Yeah, in a way that I don't think, my fear is that you know we set up aside it in a way that isn't truly meaningful and then, if these funds aren't used, because we haven't done the work to actually make things accessible and dress, address the key uh kind of foundational Equity issues, then they aren't going to be used and then there's going to be this.

C

This argument of, like oh, these aren't needed because they weren't used and it's like no, they weren't needed because we didn't set aside the resources and the time and the funds to do them correctly. However,.

D

One example is there: are there are stipends available for inclusion belonging and not all of those funds are even being utilized that for that are being offered, because that's a choice of the commissioner. So there's also the that component, where funds are available and they're not going unutilized, because we're not working at ensuring that they're available, but there's a decision that folks can utilize that if they choose to or not all right, so there's there's it's not entirely one or the other. There's there's that that realm of in between too well.

C

We can't see there's the thing. You can't argue that we can't use one-time funds for this book, but then also argue that, oh, we have funds that are one-time funds to do this work. What I am asking is to put equity on the budget in the general fund to fund it going forward in this particular case, I can appreciate and understand why Council has those concerns. However, I would like to continue to highlight that I. Don't think it's enough and it's not quite doing what we hope it is doing where.

A

We're adding funds to do exactly Community engagement and accessibility. We have a recommendation from staff for how much to include now as a pilot we're first doing it. If it's not enough, we will use Reserve staff to us staff come to us for Reserve requests in that case, and then next year, when we see how it plays out, if it needs more money, we can put more money in.

E

The other thing I I, really would wish that these conversations could separate between doing our Equity work and the equity director position, because I think, as the comments that we've received today, show there's a like a miseducation of the people who are going to be voting on this item or there's going to be confusion that we're only putting in 8 000 or 2 000 or 10 000, but we're putting in hundreds of thousands of dollars into Equity work through this budget and to say that we're not doing our Equity work by not having a director is to say, like we didn't have a communications director that we aren't doing Communications.

E

We would still be doing those things, but we we aren't doing both and I think that we we got to be clear with the community that, like Equity work and Equity director are not that are not the same and we're doing a lot. And this budget does a lot. It's a huge investment in changing what we in institutionalizing, something that we haven't done before, accept their grants and so I think I guess I'm. Just urging us to use language.

E

That's pretty clear about what we're doing, because when I hear someone say, oh you're only investing ten thousand dollars in equity you're, giving up on this. That's that's just not right and I think that we're going to have a challenging Community discussion. If we can't even talk about the same thing and I, think it's really so in this conversation too, as we consider this motion and the potential change that's been proposed, let's talk about the difference between equity work and Equity, director to oversee that work.

C

I'm concerned that you're not understanding exactly what Equity work is like I acknowledge that we've put.

E

I'm actually ask you not to tell me what I do.

C

E

Don't understand you can State what you think, but please don't say what I think.

C

Fair enough, my apologies.

C

F

I mean I think, there's a there's, something to be said for the fact that I do agree. We have put a lot of money into the budget that is going to benefit Equity work and creates Equity work, but the fact that so many community members do not feel that we have done that. We're clearly not communicating very well at all and that's not on any one individual, but a lot of what we do and is perception of the community and if the community doesn't feel that we're doing Equity work.

F

That does say something whether we are or not it's it. That does say something. I.

C

Mean it might also say that we're doing not enough equity work unless residents are still experiencing amount of harm that it's really hard to put monetary value to and I understand that sorry, we live in a society and we can only work on this with the funds available.

C

Sorry, um however, it's really hard to as a body say that we are going to fund work. That, yes, is meeting some needs and is addressing some harm that has existed, but we're not going to address all of it um and acknowledging that harm will continue to happen and I.

C

Just I want to prioritize doing the work to address that and I can under I understand and I respect that we've put money into doing that work and that is building equity in one way, but but I mean it's also offering services like it's offering Services the community that everyone is using and we're hearing that there is equity concerns that are very, very specific. Around racial Equity um I think we've also heard concerns around like, uh or you know, best supporting Elders in our community and um needing accessibility needs in certain ways.

C

So I guess that's really what I'm trying to get at is thinking about that. Yes, we are meeting some needs, but we are not meeting others I know that that's always going to be the case, but also acknowledging that there is active harm in that.

A

It's valid what you say, and that is that is a difficult thing to that. We have to deal with.

A

Are there any additional questions or comments.

C

On that particular motion.

C

In general, all right I would like to make a motion that we set aside two hundred thousand dollars of arpa funds to support equity in fy24 and Beyond. Awesome.

A

I, don't believe we can do that. That's not been warned on the agenda right if we're making a decision about arpa funding that should be an agenda item. This is specifically about the fy24 general budget and capital plan.

D

E

Well, couldn't you can make the motion to allocate because it's reserves right now yeah, so you can move to increase the budget by that amount, with its source being reserved slower. The reserves by that and increase the I mean, isn't that is that what you're proposing it's using versus that would be right. It's Reserve funds.

B

G

We haven't worn.

B

That either but.

G

It's something you could do anytime personally, um if it was warm okay,.

K

If we're, if we're amending the FY 24 budget, to increase the use of arpa to add in that position and additional money for Equity I think that we, it is covered by what's currently been born. That would create an automatic um need to increase taxes and fy25 by about three and a half cents 3.4 cents. Before.

E

Any of the increases well or remove it in fy25, that's correct, yeah.

C

And we are currently proposing that this position will come back fy25 if it's not on the fy24 budget.

C

So that sounds like.

F

A

By Aurora, second, by Thomas, all those in favor, please say aye aye. Those opposed name motion fails.

C

I would like to make a motion to add an advisory item on the ballot to ask residents if they would like the city to have an equity director position.

A

Is that something we can motion without language in the agenda packet.

G

uh I mean you're voting on the warning next, so.

K

What is presented as the morning with the Articles.

G

But it does it doesn't. If they're they could have voted to change it, they can be voting to change that kind of thing or yeah.

G

That's my understanding. Angela, do you have any Oh either of you? Do you have a past experience with that? Wasn't worried.

K

Not for an advisory item um with the way that it's currently proposed, I don't see a potential issue. um The previous iterations that have been suggested of voting on the position as a separate item in the budget could pose challenges. Should that item pass any other budget failed.

K

um Where point that need to increase the overall budget and reboot.

A

What is the language you're suggesting Aurora.

C

um um I am suggesting it.

C

Is not a specific Financial but similar to what uh the counselor Duncan uh talked about a little bit was is um kind of asking residents in a similar way that we've done, let's say the pool or the regional dispatch asking uh residents to kind of com, uh put their support for um we're against having that specific position within the city.

C

So what I propose- and this might need to be workshopped a bit- is a ballot item that asked residents um if they would like the city to uh prioritize having an equity director position or maybe, if prioritize doesn't work to just have an equity director position.

A

My concerns still stand in directing the manager, essentially, what Staffing model needs to be used and having a vote behind that that removes flexibility in the future when that's needed, regardless of if there's money, Associated I, think it's it's still troubling to me, I'm just putting that out there I'm.

C

Specifically putting it forward so that we're committed to doing that work so I understand your concern, but that's also why I think it's important.

A

There's a motion on the table: okay,.

E

Point of order- wouldn't this be more appropriate to our next item, where we actually propose an amendment to our warning. Yes,.

B

E

An article five yeah with exact language, let's.

A

Revisit that okay I.

E

Think I've comment on it, even though I asked to punt it I think that's it's an interesting idea and I wonder if we can make a position agnostic um and instead of adding a staff position mandate from the voters, if there's a way to word it that priority. That speaks to the work that you feel is not being adequately prioritized.

E

um That doesn't call out a specific position again, because if, in five years, that position is no longer the most impactful we'd basically have to have a boat to undo that yeah.

C

I I think yeah I think that would work well.

A

All right, so we are still on the FY 24 general fund budget and capital plan.

D

um So I have a motion to uh utilize two hundred thousand dollars in reserve funds for one-time projects to further language access plan and explore no fewer than three sustainable funding sources for an equity director position.

D

C

A

Motion by Brynn second, by Aurora, all those in favor, please say aye, those opposed, nay.

A

uh What was your motion? Brynn.

D

To allocate two hundred thousand dollars in reserve funds for one time, project use to develop a language access plan and to provide deal fewer than three sustainable funding source options for an equity director position.

A

Okay, I'm I, really apologize. I shouldn't have carried out that vote. Yet I really want staff to weigh in on the feasibility of actually taking action on that.

G

So three sustainable funding sources: I can tell you one, which is property taxes and local auction taxes. I, don't I cannot think of a third right in this moment. I understand, that's probably what the money's for, but I'm afraid I won't be able to come up with the Third. um The.

G

And there there is access to money now for a language actions planned out that I would turn down Reserve funds for for that purpose, but so that you're aware in terms of making an informed decision through the working communities challenge that was Yasmine had proposed to the Boston fed that some of the I think they call him. Initial grants be spent on that and they conceptually approved and just needed a plan. So now we need to allocate time to create that plan so that we can propose it so again, just I'm not going to use.

G

If we want to be strategic with our use of Reserve funds. um That would be one one thing to conserve: sort of like six to one half of those other concern say the working Community.

H

Challenge grant.

G

For other purposes, or it can save our Reserve funds for other purposes,.

A

uh And what is your ability to even carry out this work like if we have this vote right now? um I I I am I, am having some regret here, because this is something that we could do at any point. We don't have to do it right now. It's Reserve funding and we should really give time for staff to give us a timeline feasibility of having the capacity to do that work before allocating this money.

G

Yeah I, it does feel more appropriate to have that direction at the strategic planning and part I can't remember the order of the three worst producer could fall asleep.

E

G

Priorities: parties of planning session that generally happens in May because then you'd have the full context of what staff has.

B

G

And what priority this should have in that whole list.

E

So this doesn't modify the fy24 budget at all right. It's just a reserve fund allocation.

A

E

So is it even are we amending? Did we do anything if we're discussing the fy24 general budget, and this doesn't change that.

G

Right if to Angela to your point earlier in Angela's comment, if you're not proposing that we are doing any offsetting in the FY 24 budget, then it doesn't have to be now.

E

Can it be now can.

K

We can we allocate nothing being specifically worn, I.

A

Feel like it should.

G

It that does feel like a warning item.

E

G

K

If you wanted to increase your FY 20 capital budget by a million dollars um only you could potentially do that I. Don't.

K

Have a million dollars a sidewalk work next year, but.

E

If I picked a non-capital example, then.

E

Said line striping, um yeah I, don't know Bryn.

A

Can you email me that language, so we can bring this back rewarding.

D

A

Thank you. Apologies for the.

D

Procedural, we're figuring.

A

G

A

I actually, don't know I've never done that before um could I have a motion to withdraw the past vote.

E

A

By Bryn, second, by Jim, all those in favor, please say: aye aye aye. Anyone opposed okay motion curious. We will come back to this, though yeah.

D

A

Is there any more discussion? Does anyone want to approve make a motion to approve the budget and capital plan as presented.

E

I'll make a motion to approve the FY 24 budget and capital planners proposed or as presented.

A

Do we have a second.

F

A

Motion by Jim second, by Thomas, all those in favor, please say aye.

B

A

Opposed motion carries okay, we are on to item C.

A

So this is the actual um town meeting warning.

A

Aurora, do you have thoughts about uh position, agnostic, language,.

C

Trying to think, because my sense from would we want to give a specific money amount.

C

um Would we want to give a specific area I'm just trying to figure out like um if not the equity director position and not a money amount just kind of well.

A

Let me ask what the purpose is like: what is the outcome will be looking to from this vote.

C

um To advise the city I think both on when thinking about Reserve requests and in thinking about the fy25 budget. um That kind of the priority of equity to residents.

C

um I'm thinking we could I guess I'm, trying to figure out how specific we would want to get of allocate funds to work on or explore. Concerns brought up an equity audit um advisory to prioritize racial Equity or swiss, or uh that's why I'm wondering, if maybe like the equity audit might be um better um because it covers a a broad range of items.

C

um I'm not sure if any or Jim, if you had any specific um position, agnostic language.

E

It's it's hard to think of it off the top of my head here in the meeting.

E

Sorry not not so thank you spew out, sorry.

F

Could creating a an equity Department to be staffed? How the city manager sees appropriate guide? What we're, what is being looked for, but also leave it up to staff to decide how to specifically use those funds.

A

Me creating a department is the is equivalent to creating a role, a staff role, specific staff well I'm.

F

Not similar about Elaine could decide that maybe it's a coordinator, that's needed, and funds that would go towards paying coaches or trainers to come in or because or it might be, the equity director itself that takes up most of.

E

B

E

To think of like to what end, though, right like what? What is the equity there's like the thing that you can Envision doing the thing that what is the thing that you want to do and I think that's what we want to know from voters like? Is this a or, if there's a certain direction that we need to push this and uh an end that we want to see or a process that we want to see happen like and I?

E

Think that's why we sit at the policy level and like that, could be a grant that could be a contract right. It could be somebody doing contracted work. It could be somebody on staff, it could be a mix and I think the the implementation of that policy direction. Is here's what what gets funded and fleshed out by staff I. Think the for this to like be flexible and then hopefully generate change. I would like to see what the end or the the processes that we're after and that's that's, where I would that's.

H

E

Like yeah, the director or department or saying, like you, need to contract out for a certain amount of stuff like I'd like to see it be more like we want to see this be different next year. We want to see this be different in five years, so we want to see progress made on X, Y or Z, something that so that's the kind of language I would be thinking about is more. What is what what ends? Are we asking for the some sort of monetary investment yeah.

A

I want to remind us all that staff is coordinating with the school on a public Outreach plan for the equity audit findings, which I think is where we're going to get far more actionable feedback and priority from community members I'm challenged with how any kind of advisory on the ballot that would provide us any new Direction. Like we already know, this is a priority of waniewski foreign.

A

We're not able to on the ballot share findings from the audit or actions we're already taking um I'm for me, I'm not saying how there's going to be beneficial information here beyond what we're going to be able to collect, in a few months time from doing actual engagement sessions.

D

C

Have uh an idea, but it.

C

I don't know if it then feels contradictory, um but.

C

Then again, some of this has already worked. We are doing.

C

But I was wondering if there is potential language around increasing Equity of Resident participation in the Democratic process. But you know if people are having a hard time accessing the Democratic process, they might not be able to vote on such an item so I'm debating that.

D

So is for just thinking about uh councilor Duncan's question like to what to what end so just teasing that thought out a little bit more, um so perhaps getting some direction through a ballot item that sustains that that helps sustain the position.

D

uh The community regard, like regardless of council turnover.

B

D

Does this mean? Can you say that again, so essentially um so one thing that um Jim had mentioned that he wants to ensure that there's some sustainable decisions that carry forward regardless of who the council makeup is. So is one of the ends, one of the goals to get a basically a pulse from the community to say how how they want to elevate and strategically prioritize Equity work, regardless of what the council makeup is like.

D

Would that be useful to have as a like a true north or uh just a some direction that all Council can come back to regardless of who's sitting in these seats.

E

I think that would be nice if there was a something that felt actionable and appropriate to the community. Yes, I mean that's, that's what it would do same with, like the Main Street on vote.

H

E

Yes, it is an authority to borrow, but it's also not like a blessing to proceed and I think yeah. um We kind of do commit ourselves for several years to walk that path. It doesn't mean that the council has to, but it definitely makes it harder to say no like. That would be the benefit of having this kind of principle.

E

um Valid uh advisory vote I'm just worried that, can we actually do it in five.

D

E

In this time that we have um in a way that's genuine I, I'm, yeah I'm, looking at the equity audit and I, don't want to jump the gun on the Outreach and kind of taking this from audit to action. The one that we aren't making that we haven't spent a lot of like strategic time. Thinking about as that last one on developing strategies to increase civic participation among bypoc residents. That's the one that I think there are a number of things in the budget.

E

Currently that seek to do that, and we could ask if that's like the direction that we want. Our Equity work to go, but I also would be like we aren't asking whether we want housing uh Equity to be furthered as well, um and that's it just seems like this is my way through it and kind of thinking about what you said. Mayor of this kind of structured engagement. We're about to have that would could yield a really meaningful advisory vote to like solidify.

E

This is where we're gonna go Pinnacle of five years of work from 2019 onward to get to like a statement about what we're going to do for Equity work in the city seems like a powerful end and I think it's to Short Circuit that with a article today. So that's I, guess where I'm landing is like. This seems like the strategy is to increase. Civic participation seems like the most granular thing that we can do, but it's not the only thing we're going to do it's hard to imagine coming up with something.

E

Now that will respect the broader work that we I think are already committed to that's a super rambly way of saying I guess not.

B

C

Yeah I guess I'm I'm, getting a little stuck on right like this is the the I guess, usefulness of having like a specific amount or a specific position.

C

um I can recognize that there is some discomfort um in the potential commitment.

C

um I also can see that as almost a shorthand to ensure that we are doing kind of what we're talking about more broadly, like all these different items and I, know that's kind of why I've been championing an equity director position, acknowledging that it's not a cure-all, but also acknowledging that it um provides that kind of expertise and gives that kind of um it gives it I mean it provides counsel with that kind of a valuable resource in a way that, like we're discussing all of this, and um we've discussed this a lot and I mean I've I sent some resources and stuff like that like these are all things that if we had an equity director position, who was specifically looking at maybe kind of more Acuity initiative director, so looking at things internally, who could offer Direction on stuff like this, so I think that's.

C

Something too is like we're debating all this, and some of it is like well we're debating it, because we don't have the capacity to ensure that we're doing exactly the right thing.

C

So right coming back to like what about you know, asking folks to vote on a position that helps build that capacity, or maybe there's language to put in that asks residents um if they would like the city to increase Equity capacity or capacity for Equity work in the coming years. Something like that. Would that be specific enough, but also not specific enough, like that The Sweet Spot we're kind of trying to talk towards.

E

I wonder if it would be, we want to hire an equity director to do X, Y and Z, and then just take out that we want to hire an equity director to say we want to do.

E

X, Y and Z, like I, still haven't heard that like what is it look at the equity productive position now like acting as liaison increasing understanding access to city government practices like I mean what is the specific saying that we're not doing in our budget like I, wonder if there's something more specific that we can get to that's still not position or money tied. But that's like the output, like the work that we want done.

D

I have potential language, however, when he's worse words, wordsmithing and um it like you know, it's just an example, so advisory shall the community authorize the city manager to allocate x amount of dollars in general fund, local options, tax, Grant funds or other acquired funds to be allocated to program positions, contract, work, scholarships or program funding to enhance Equity priorities and strategies.

A

They already have this Authority.

E

And the only doing there is enhancing Equity priorities and strategies which are set by the council, like what are those that we want to ask the voters to ossify and Harden like otherwise. It's still just like all our priorities are sidewalks. Our priorities are program access and sign. Ups, like I, just like the what's the what there I.

A

I feel like we would be much better positioned to have this conversation in the future. After Community engagement around the equity audit findings,.

E

I tend to agree.

A

Like this is certainly something we could come back to and consider for a future ballot right after we have more of that work done.

A

I I feel like it's pretty much premature, to put something on there now for folks to vote on.

F

I I tend to agree I just, and this is hypothesizing, but from the regular folks that show up to those types of events or the folks that are showing up now and telling us that they want us to hire an equity director.

F

So I have a I have a hard time with thinking that we're gonna do all of that work which we should do anyway, but like we're gonna get to it. They're gonna say hire an equity director and then we're gonna go this whole year without hiring an equity director and wait until we budget it next year.

F

That might be a slightly pessimistic view of looking at participation, but I think we see the same faces that they're literally reaching out to all of us via email and whatnot, so I feel like we already know what they want.

F

It's just. What do we fund it just straight up and I mean we already built on the budget, but like do we just increase the taxes to fund it now or do we ask them I think this is what you want. Do you want I.

A

Think we're on a path to get more information like no.

B

A

Started engagement with Community groups that we haven't been before.

A

We have the ability to do more of that and to invite more people to whatever this structure is for the audit, Outreach I I, don't necessarily think we're going to get the same responses. They're the same the same people showing up I.

F

A

Especially if we're like strategic about how we organize that and who we reach out to.

A

I also want to think about, like as a voter, When I See This. What do I think I'm getting for this vote?

A

I! Think it's difficult to say: do you want to prioritize X area without the the wrap around information of what else? Excuse me what else like why don't I get to vote on prioritizing professional.

D

A

Or Child Care access or something like I I, still don't know what we're going to get or what voters are going to get out of an article well.

C

Are you suggesting we cut both things? That's where I'm I feel, like those examples, are disingenuous, where we're talking about a position that is being cut or put on hold.

C

um So that's where I feel like again having some specific information from the voters that, yes, they want to see this position back in fy25 or do that work and I. Think I. Think it's hard councilor Duncan as you bring up Are there specific items one.

C

It would be great to have an expert who's able to advise us on those items or to give the funds to engage community and we're going to do that in part um on what our priority items but I also think, as has come up and I don't want to like go through like building a job description right now, but I think we know that the at the equity director position as it was originally was non-sustainable and what did it? It was in fact harmful the amount of work.

C

So again, my concern is like we're cutting or kind of moving this work aside, pushing it Forward, um whatever you um I kind of want to Envision uh in the future.

C

While you know not it like, what does that Equity position? Look like well we're not going to have those conversations if we don't think we're going to have an equity director position.

C

So that's one of the things I'm coming around to as well of like by not allocating These funds, these resources, it feels like we are again de-prioritizing it. So we're not going to have the conversations on the ways we could make that a more sustainable position or investigate a way to have a different position or to have other support. So that's what I come back to where it feels like again we're deep prioritizing so we're stopping conversations from happening before they do.

C

And again you can argue with me on uh whether you agree, um but I do think uh if we're not trying to figure out these issues in a very specific way again thinking about a very specific position, um you know we're not prioritizing it we're not going to think about well what are ways we can do. Equity, better.

C

B

C

Is a long-winded thing to say, but that that is why I keep coming back to specifically putting forward an equity director position, because it's an actionable item that we could take the time to you know take that time to improve and if we had it as an advisory item, then, as we have these Community conversations with the school, we might know, then how best to if we have that, maybe even ask should the city have an equity position or Equity specific position?

C

Maybe that's better, who don't specifically want an equity director, but do you need but recognize the value of having someone with that type of expertise and just the capacity? So the the capacity isn't like one thing, I see, is I. Think a lot of this work may still get done, but it won't it'll get done, unpaid and that is exhausting and that is unequitable in its own way and leads to burnouts. So that that's another. That's another thing that comes back to me as well.

C

So maybe what I will do is move to add an advisory ballot item to ask residents if they would like to see the city have an equity, specific position in the future or take out in the.

E

Future, could you could you word it as an article, so it shall like. Shall the voters of the city of Winooski Direct.

C

E

Yeah just like, what's the language so that it can be exact what it'll end up on the it needs to be exactly what's going to be on the warning.

E

I don't know if we want to call it recess, so you can write it, but I wouldn't want to vote on a concept that needs to get written.

A

C

You have language the voters of when you ski.

A

Do you want five minutes.

A

You can try well, let's call a recess. It's 7 12., we'll reconvene at 7 17.

D

This is at least how I started.

D

Adjustment advice based off of the feedback we got.

A

Your support come on up.

A

B

L

All right good evening, everyone um I'm John fenings the treasurer I'm here to present some key takeaways from the second quarter of the FY 23 Spanish reports.

L

um So in Q2 we continue to see we use ease, finish position, strengthening as Community activity returns back to pre-pandemic levels, which is good. The city general fund current projects, a surplus of about 400 000.. The bulk of the increased forecast Surplus is due to cost savings from staff vacancies across multiple departments so very similar to q1.

L

We are also forecasting surpluses in the following Enterprise and special Revenue funds, um again same as last quarter, which are the combined parking garage fund, the Tiff fund and the community and Economic Development Fund again similar to q1. We are forecasting deficits in the following on the water fund, Wastewater fund, Community Services fund and the rental registry fund. One thing I will add, though, for the waterfun and Wastewater fund. We may see these deficits um turn to surpluses by the end of the year.

L

The way that we're tracking so specific details to support current forecasts can be found within the respective financial report on the city of winooski's website. Please bear in mind that this is a Q2 report which is through December 31st, and that projections are our best guess Guided by the financial activities. We've realized so far and therefore are subject to change. As we progress through the year. Are there any questions.

F

um Could you uh tell us a little bit more why you think those water deficits might turn into surpluses.

L

Yeah sure so um the big, the big reason there um for those two funds are due to the 36 miles, Bay and 355 main um uh building projects that we've been doing there and kind of chat about this in q1 as well.

L

So the way that we we've been forecasting for the revenue for those few funds have been based on activity, but the due to the cons, the project going on at those locations we haven't been um uh full so uh starting in Q2 um I, believe both locations were fully occupied um so that going forward we can forecast better knowing what the actual consumption will be or the revenue will be well now, they're fully occupied, so we're thinking in Q3 Q4 we'll have a better idea, but to give you some context there, um for example the Wastewater fund.

L

We were projecting a deficit of about a hundred and ten thousand dollars in q1 and now the projected deficit 60, which is a difference of 50. and that's all from ramping up um occupants in Q2 correct. Thank you.

D

And similar question: what does the estimated deficit for the rental registry.

L

L

Fifteen thousand dollars in the green, better, okay, because we started at a billing for some of those properties, but we're anticipating to be billing fully in fy24, okay,.

A

I didn't see an end of your projection for parking. There's a there was like a 10K Surplus right now did I just miss it.

L

On the full report, or did I skip it when I was just.

A

L

I hope it's there. Maybe.

A

I just missing it I.

M

Think it's there.

L

B

K

Under Enterprise phones.

L

But just uh for parking the combined parking garage fund, it's about the same as q1 to Surplus about ten thousand dollars, yeah.

A

Are you expecting that to to maintain, though, through end of year or.

L

A

L

Yeah and that's zero exactly.

A

Okay, thank you for that reminder.

L

Does that clear up your question yeah it does okay.

N

Any other questions.

A

No questions for members of the public: oh we have some attendees. Now uh you can use the race hand feature if you have any questions or comments for the treasures report.

A

Okay, let's move on to item F then.

D

B

A

B

A

Changes to sidewalk use.

H

Good evening, thank you very much uh I'm here to have continued discussion on the proposed changes to the the sidewalk use. uh um Sidewalk use information, specifically chapter five of the municipal code. We had some preliminary discussion on this at uh your last meeting on the 17th, so tonight uh we're here to talk in more detail. If you, if you're ready to do that and also potentially set a public hearing, a possible date would be on February.

H

21St um I have some additional information to to provide, based on the comments and questions from the from the last meeting, as well as some additional information to share with you all tonight. So I can do that as well either during the at the beginning. Here or we can, we can I can go through my new stuff and then we can follow up on on last month or last week's uh meet. Let's.

A

H

Great, so the one thing I wanted to do as uh councilor Renner alluded to earlier. I was at the downtown board association's meeting last Wednesday and provided this information to them and at that meeting I, provided them a really quick presentation of what this might look like as far as the sidewalk use is concerned. So I wanted to share that with you tonight as well.

H

um So this is a a brief slide with some some animations that I have prepared to hopefully give a better sense of what this might look like. I. Think it's really important to point out that this is a very generic overview and is is not really specific to any one area, but hopefully we'll give a better sense of what we're talking about here.

H

So right now, as we uh as we look at our sidewalks, we have our curb line. We have the granite belt. We have in some instances a step up, another Granite step and then the brick pavers at the building facade. So, overall we're looking at about 13 feet of of depth, and this is this is a general number because in some cases, there's not the step. In other cases, the building facade bumps out a little further. So, generally speaking, uh the the overall profile from Curb face to building facade is about 13 feet.

H

I should also mention, in some cases, there's two steps so in front of the new ski block. There's there's two steps down in those areas. So, but generally the curbs are about about six inches wide, six to eight inches they're Granite curbs so they're, not a uniform Dimension.

H

There's a five foot, Granite paver belt, where we have our trees and other Street amenities, then in some instances a step up or not, and then again the seven foot of of brick papers for The, Pedestrian, walkway, so right now, most of the buildings or most of the businesses are only utilizing the area on the on the granite pavers. Even when there's a step there or even absence of a step, they're still generally confining their their outdoor space to that to that uh that Granite belt.

H

What we're proposing with this? uh With these changes would have them shift that space two feet from the face of the curb, so basically a foot and a half in from from the back side of that curb from where they are in some instances. If there is the step, they'll have to accommodate that in one form or another I had one business owner reach out to me.

H

As we were talking about this and basically said he wouldn't have any issues with accommodating the space, because he would just take the the legs off the off his picnic tables and just shorten them a bit. So he could shift them over accommodate that step, no issue with that. We do allow for, though, in the in the draft, for the inclusion of structures.

H

If, if a business chooses to build something in there to take out the step to flatten that area out, they they do have that ability they may need to get permitting for that, just because of the structural nature of it, but there that is an option that is offered so shifting that that usable space that they're currently dealing with now the two feet off of the curb face.

H

So then, what that does is it leaves our five foot of clear pedestrian pathway against the building facade, again varying depending on what the facades actually look like, and then that creates kind of this one foot space that is new space. In essence, it's not going to be a foot for everybody, necessarily in some cases it may be a little more, maybe a little less, but by shifting by Shifting the area that we're using uh in closer to the building setting cre, creating that offset from the curb face.

H

In some instances, businesses may actually end up getting more usable space for for for their outdoor seating or their outdoor use in general, depending on what what the business is is doing.

H

um So just wanted to share this with you, quick, the the reactions and the feedback I got from the the downtown board meeting were pretty positive, so um they thought that this was a very a good graphic to to represent, what's what's being proposed, so I I wanted to share with you all tonight as well.

H

um Any questions on that.

D

No I appreciate the graphic yeah.

H

And again, this is this is very I. Don't want to say this as representative, because it's not not everywhere has a step. Not everywhere has all these widths, it's just, but I think it gives a general idea of what what the businesses may be faced with, as as we as we advance forward with some of these uh requirements, so I'm going to stop my share here um so with that um moving forward in the at our last meeting, we did talk about some of the uh the liability component.

H

um We did have some some correspondences with our loss. Prevention. Specialist. Is that.

H

Loss prevention, agent from uh the Vermont League of cities and towns, some email, correspondences and also a site visit specifically to talk about some of these these items and in the cover sheet on the uh in the agenda packet. There's some some quoted language. Basically talking about the fact that we should the the quoted language is in reference to the the overhang and and doing something to accommodate that because of the angled parking and using some form of standard that that we can point to.

H

There was a memo included in the agenda packet as well from John rousher that provided some additional information on on the overhangs and on the the specific details of of that, based on uh where we're getting those references. So so that information is provided. We also following up on the site, visit related to the liability component.

H

We did receive an email back from from the LCT, basically saying uh and I'll I'll, just I'll read a few lines from the specific from the email, specifically uh basically they're, saying that um it's all about exposure to the city. There are concerns with with allowing close placement of patrons Patron tables to vehicle travel paths that do create a potential risk for the city.

H

If there is an incident, it's probable that the business owner and the city would be named in a suit because of this potential I suggest the city consider adding the following elements: the first one being that businesses name the city as an additional insured. With respect to the sidewalk usage, which we do include in this draft and I.

H

Think more specifically to your question: counselor Oak Leaf about the amount of liability they had recommended a minimum of 5 million per occurrence of general liability that could be provided by a combination of primary coverage or umbrella or excess Insurance limit. They also note, however, that that could be expensive, and so as a fallback, but not an ideal position, the city could accept two million per occurrence and in the aggregate in the aggregate limit, though, allow, uh though this would be the bare minimum, so the two million.

H

What we're suggesting is also the bare minimum that our our folks at vlct would recommend going forward for, for some level of protection.

H

um I believe, let's see, let me look. Oh there was another question about uh travel. The the the the Drive aisle width uh for emergency services and general standard for emergency fire lanes for ex, as an example is, is 20 feet so right now that that travel Lane is. Is it about just over 12 feet for us and I? We wouldn't want to go any less than that because, with with our new fire truck in particular and any existing equipment, they will have the Outriggers that need placement.

H

So anything less than than generally 15 feet is is not ideal, but uh 12 feet is is doable, so we wouldn't want to I. Don't believe we'd want to go below that number for from an emergency services. Standpoint.

H

um Let's see, oh, there was another question about creating maps for uh each space. We did talk about that as staff and from a we we for one. We don't have all the survey data to be able to create, create the detailed that detailed level of of information and from a resource standpoint.

H

It may actually make more sense to work with the businesses directly based on what they actually might want if they're looking to get additional space from an adjacent business which is also laid out in in the regulations and really just work with them, one-on-one to lay out the space that way, we can go on site and identify any facilities that the city might own or might have as far as signage waste receptacles bicycle racks that that maybe may need to be accommodated as well.

H

So um that's probably the preferred option for us is to have that one-on-one interaction with the businesses rather than trying to draw up some sort of a diagram that they have to follow directly.

H

Otherwise, I don't think I had anything specific for follow-up other than um as I note in the in the cover sheet on the agenda, because this is an ordinance Amendment. Our Charter does require that to be introduced by a member of council as we go forward to set a public hearing. So with that, I will pick it up.

A

We do have a business owner on so I can invite public comment unless there's any questions from Council. First, not at the moment. Okay uh attendees, please use the chat or raise hand feature if you wish to speak.

A

Laura Wade I'm wondering if you have thoughts to share oh and Meredith, is on oh great.

A

You're on mute still, though Meredith, oh, are you inviting me I am yeah. Sorry, you were like Paul moved you over already, so we got on order.

O

um Great oh Meredith is here will be my opportunity.

O

O

I cannot speak for every board, member, of course, um but I am here specifically. Can you speak um on behalf of a few different business owners that have sent me comments um and questions that they are unable to be here for various reasons, so the first is a I'm gonna go through the comment. First, because there's not specific questions and then I will go into the questions.

O

um The first comment is that won't affect us, but please that's a bummer for everyone. I always thought it could be cool to see Booth get where some of the parking spaces are you see that all over the place in other cities? So of course um that was a comment um and then my commentary is that this is something that we um as Downtown City, have had conversations about in the past.

O

um In my mind, it certainly it's up to the council and the city staff to decide that to me this is a completely separate issue: usage of parking spaces for feeding and for other things, I, don't think. It's particularly part of this particular question of Municipal coaching, but just something to consider that this is always on people's minds and while I don't have a specific person um and it's a quote to share tonight.

O

This is something that is anecdotally, shared with me um all the time that people would love to see parking spaces utilized for outdoor dining or other uses, and then on the um complete opposite side. I also receive a lot of commentary that we should never use parking for anything other than parking. So there's that um and then the other comment that I have is two feet seems like a ridiculously large overhang. The eight inches should be enough to accommodate cars and trucks.

O

If the city wants to do this, they should put out barriers and keys if they feel their safety concerned and I know that there was a discussion about certain barriers being put in place um as part of the form as part of the previous discussion. So um I just wanted to Sugar that as well.

O

um Anything else can I just move on to them. Yeah.

O

um The what first question is um I wonder if there is a way to switch to different parking, such as.

K

O

Parking from May 1st to September 30th and then go back to an angled parking in the winter. So has there been a discussion about changing the orientation of parking? In my understanding there have been a conversation, but.

H

O

Love to hear from staff about what um changing the orientation of parking from the angle parking that currently exists around certain parts of the rotary um like a parallel parking or a different degree of angle. What would that has that been discussed and has that been dismissed as a as a possibility.

H

I'll be happy to answer now sure and I'll I'll look to John as well uh on the zoom, so we did look at that. We did look at changing the angle of the parking and we did I believe we even looked at that parallel parking along uh at least in the downtown area around the rotary. The the challenge is that because of the built structure, that's there as well the curb line that exists and the existing sidewalks, uh the angled parking. That's there.

H

Now it was all designed for the current angle, so there would be a significant loss of parking. I would say if we changed up the angles um and I think it just creates other challenges with with trying to get in and out of those spaces, so John I'll I'll. Let you add anything you want to as well.

P

Yeah, it's not much more to have on that, but we did look at a couple different options. We looked at um shuttling of the angles um just trying to get more space. We looked at the kernel parking, but I mean cars. Are you know? 20?

P

Usually those parking spaces are like 20 foot wide so now, you're looking at maybe getting two cars, three cars maximum and those spaces that currently have about 10, I, think so that seems pretty peaceful and then just the idea of like seasonally switching over I mean, as you know, we have a hard time enough. Just doing line striping or just regular roads, and the idea of having to like convert from one type of parking scenario to another would be would be pretty challenging. Operationally too.

A

Thanks Meredith, you have additional questions.

A

You're on mute again, if you're talking.

O

um Thank you so much just after answering those questions. um The other question that I received is um what and I believe this has got briefly in the in the previous meeting, but I'm.

B

O

To call you out again uh John, but what does the question I received was what does the two foot overhanging of cheese? Not against it, just confused about that specific distance? Why wouldn't something smaller or larger work better.

P

Yeah I can answer that so in that memo, I I have some Dimensions that are shown in there. So those Dimensions come from the National Parking Association um and that's typically what we utilize that's kind of the main reference for any sort of Municipal on-street parking. So.

I

For a 45 degree.

P

Angle, parking that we have in the downtown the design overhang Dimension is one foot nine inches, so that would be the actual minimum. It's really hard to sort of manage or enforce 1.9 inches, so I think that's where we sort of landed on all right. Let's just call it 2p just to make it easy for everyone else, but that's where that that.

H

Number comes from and I'll just add a bit to that as well, so I did some after the last meeting. I did some research on on vehicles and the amount of overhang they have so um looking at four different vehicles that are fairly common around around this area, uh measuring from basically the center of the wheel so including the rim half of the rim, half of the tire and then any other overhang.

H

uh Looking at a Ford F-150, it has a 3.15 foot, overhang distance, a Toyota RAV4 has 2.98 foot overhang, Chevy, Silverados, 3.08 foot overhang and a Subaru Outback has a 3.28 foot overhang, so they've all got a fairly good distance in there again measuring from the center of the of the wheel. So that's going to be variable. What the actual overhang distance is in front of that that tire may be based on the the size of the rim Etc, but just to give you a sense of what we're actually talking about.

H

As far as what vehicle overhang looks like.

A

My husband parked our Suburban up there and it was a 20 inch. It was 20 inches over the curve, so I was skeptical of your two feet, but it was so now.

O

Thank you very so much I actually have one more question. I'm.

H

So so sorry I missed.

O

It um the other question I had was um about the five foot, ADA Compliant, walkway and just concerned that that is that an appropriate amount, and is it like if people and knowing that nothing is.

H

Perfect, in terms.

O

Of inches, if someone is trying to be compliant and push their feeding into feet from the curb and then maybe they have, they want to have they're trying to get five feet, but maybe it's a little bit less. Is that a concern for any reason not just ADA compliance, but compliance with you know allowing our street to be friendly to Walkers of all kinds. Rollers dogs people walk through their bikes because right, no one's going to be riding their bikes on a sidewalk people will be blocking them.

O

Kindly um that that available space, that sort of five foot area.

H

So I think and again I'll look to John here as well, but I think what I would say is in given the location in a downtown environment. Five feet is the is the least amount of space we would be comfortable with Ada I believe allows us as low as three feet for for clearance, but um given that generally, when we pour a sidewalk somewhere, it's a five foot wide sidewalk. This, the the least amount of distance we would want to do is is five feet.

H

Given again, given it's a downtown area, we would, we would prefer more, quite frankly, I think, but we also want to be mindful of the businesses and trying to accommodate uh the outdoor space that they that they do rely on for for for their businesses in the warmer months. So I think five feet would be probably the bare minimum we'd be comfortable going with.

P

Yeah I agree with that. So if you look at some of the trans documentation, that's out there in a further downtown area, seven to eight feet is, is sort of a recommended, clear pathway. It's not a regulatory requirement. It's just that's a more comfortable with when you have a higher level of traffic in that open setting, but 36 inches is the minimum needed. Five foot is sort of the compromised to accommodate having Cafe seating, public use and cars. There's a lot going on with with these corridors and that's trying to balance those spaces.

P

So that is sort of one of the compromises with this is you know you know, five foot is, would be a recommended minimum.

O

Thank you guys so much I appreciate everyone's time. That was all of the questions or.

B

O

That I had collected for this meeting. um I, don't know if there's other public um comments right now, but we you know at downtown Lucia. We obviously have the the city's Vitality economic vitality and the small businesses at heart, um but we understand that there is sort of a rock and a hard place situation here with the.

B

Safety and the liability.

O

Now that we know this information, um and so we definitely would encourage um the council to move forward with a um you know, any questions or discussion.

B

O

Then any approvals or any actions that need to be taken, and we certainly appreciate the fact that this does require that public leading because it is a municipal code change, and we would certainly do our part to help promote that within any interested parties. If there are additional public comments that will come through at that time, that's it for me. Thank you guys. Thanks.

A

H

One other thing, I would just add: Meredith made the comment about the use of parking spaces for seating. That is something we did look at in in the evaluation of this it was it was. uh We did move on from that again, because there were comments and concerns about the loss of the parking, but I I would say if that is something we wanted to revisit in the future.

H

The changes that are proposed in in this ordinance update would not impact removing the parking to use Force seeding or to to do something else related in that regard.

G

A

Is there any additional public comment.

A

Any more questions from Council.

D

I have a question: uh Meredith I, it's actually a question for you. Did you receive any um business comment about the section which is going to be proposed as 5.11 permit application as it relates to um be uh 5.11 B? uh In addition to specific requirements, no structures, canopies tents, umbrellas, Banner, signs, light strings hindrances are similar. Elements shall be directly placed in whole, learn part in a manner that would be located above or below designated pedestrian travel route.

D

um I haven't gone down and done uh an assessment or evaluation to know what the status of things are now I know that just reading through some previous comments, there was some concern about losing the vibrancy and just kind of wondering to what extent that particular item would impact current conditions for businesses.

O

It's my understanding that that specific section that you're talking about is already kind of um adhere to. um So essentially what that means is that, if somebody uh has an umbrella that the word someone just walk into it with their head, that would be not allowed. So that is something that is now being written in this as far as I understand that is already being adhered too, and that was just finally being put into writing.

O

um So I have not heard any pushback on that specific item.

D

Okay, great, thank you.

A

Would uh someone like to make a motion to set a public hearing for February 21st 2023.

E

. wait to formally introduce.

A

You yeah sorry, thank you. Oh yeah, I. Don't have the language for that and.

H

It could be that you just introduced the the proposed amendments for a public hearing to be held whenever you're you're comfortable. Holding that.

A

Would someone like to introduce the proposed sidewalk.

O

A

They called proposed changes to sidewalk use amendments at a public hearing to be held, February 21st.

F

Almost a second.

A

Motion by Thomas second, by Jim, all those in favor, please say aye.

B

A

Motion carries.

H

Thank you very much. Thank.

A

G

A

We get Bob back on, yes,.

G

Yes and Colin, if you would like that, yes.

A

Please and we're going to go back to item C, which was the warning language for town meeting day.

A

G

Okay, sorry thanks.

A

All right we're just waiting for our City attorney to join.

A

A

A

Did you already share the what we were discussing Elaine.

G

I did yes Bob. You said you had a some some advice.

I

G

So uh Council a counselor is looking to propose something for the ballot. That would be an advisory item. That would that.

G

um Envelope language have an equity for the city to have an equity specific position in the future.

I

I

Inquiry questions the Secretary of State cautions municipalities to consider carefully kind of advisory questions they're putting on a balance, and their advice is that it is that if those any petitions relate to matters over which voters have control.

I

But in this situation.

I

Who goes to each other provides for a member of identified positions? You know, city manager is entitled to fill.

I

um So there was a question of whether an equity position is a physical position back to the city manager can sell or cannot go. I don't know at Equity position is not specifically as an Enterprise in the trouble, and it ended, even if it is not anything a city manager, responsibility, responsibility.

I

So the voters in this case are three two or three steps to remove D from the question of whether an equity position should be appointed even with an alternative vote. The same manager is not obligated to follow to that opinion.

I

You work into the council and the control of the council that is required city manager to.

I

To appoint the film commissions, the city managers responsibility under the trade, so um my concern about this kind of question is that is the council needs to considered very carefully what might be the impact of putting this on the ballot and what control it has over the outcome.

I

The Secretary of State suggests that Council or select board doing their strength line itself in a position not being able to set up your mind the outcome of the advisory opinion and just create different man. Voters, rather than actually accomplishing what.

I

If you want to do it, the wording needs to be very direct. The Secretary of State recommended uh next to no questions and I. Think in this question would be sure the city create and fill an equity position of. However, you want to find that your more precisely getting a there's electronic shouldn't structure, if you want to do it.

A

Thank you, Bob Aurora. Did you have a new language you wanted to to have us consider.

C

Flip something down but trying to make sure that it would match what.

C

Legally suggest.

C

I I I feel like the simple is best so I almost would lean towards um doing exactly um what was just presented. I guess, my only question would be do we put should rather okay.

C

No I don't think I have um more specific language that would alter um what was presented.

A

I mean hearing Bob's update from Secretary of State. It further confirms my concern that we're putting something on a ballot that misleads voters about their Authority like then they could vote on this. It might not happen and it leaves an implication that they can direct or that voters have closer control over what positions we have at the city. Anyhow,.

E

I should share those concerns.

C

All right, I will put forward the motion and.

C

Go from there so I move that the city should add an advisory item on the ballot that asks voters. Should the city create and fill an equity position.

A

Some motion on the table.

F

A

Motion by Aurora second, by Thomas, all those in favor, please say aye aye. Those opposed name motion fails.

F

B

You abstain, sorry, I.

A

Thought I heard you Thomas. No, that's! Okay,.

A

Would someone like to make a motion to approve the town meeting warning as presented.

A

Some motion on the table is there a second a second motion by Jim second, by Thomas, all those in favor, please say: aye.

E

A

Motion carries. Thank you. Sorry.

G

Was there for the votes.

A

um Aurora made a motion that Thomas seconded I'm.

G

Sorry, what was the outcome of the second vote.

A

B

Second vote: uh it carried.

G

Was it four to one.

A

Didn't everyone say: aye I'm, sorry, those opposed, nay, okay, three one, three, two one yeah.

A

Okay, we are on item G now on for discussion approval when you escape from the Supreme K-9 program. Welcome chief.

N

Good evening, everybody.

N

So a little table setting for tonight's agenda item for folks at home that may not have watched the target presentation.

N

What I'm proposing uh in this current fy24 budget is the addition of a K-9 program, utilizing drug asset forfeiture funds that we've accumulated over eight years of having a detective assigned to that unit, an updated accounting of that actual account there's. Actually a hundred and twenty five thousand dollars, not 90 in there. That is available right now.

N

There's also 39, uh pending asset forfeiture, sharing decisions that we're waiting to hear about um several hundred thousands of dollars, but I, don't know what our percentage of that will be. So it could range anywhere from a few hundred, depending on what we did on that particular case up to multiple thousands. If we had a lead detective, so it's very much a moving Target I.

N

Think a a conservative estimate would be that by the time all of those forfeiture funds work their way through the system that we could probably see as much money as what is in there now. So it would be double what we have I'm, not asking for any additional tax increases or Revenue to stand. This program up, I'm very confident, um use utilizing an existing low mileage, newer vehicle that we'll be able to add one vehicle to the fleet without actually having to go outside of our annual Capital purchase of one new Cruiser a year.

N

What I estimate is approximately twenty two thousand dollars to stand up the program, give or take a few thousand depending on there's a fluctuation in the price of the dog, obviously, equipment and the availability of that to outfit.

N

The cruiser is constantly in flux, with global supply issues, but I, don't think it'll be a huge fluctuation in what that estimate is so I was just looking for approval through this process to start this process of outfitting a cruiser identifying a dog allowing our Handler to start to bond with that dog and then attending the patrol section certification for that canine, starting in mid-june of 23.

A

All right, thanks for coming back with that questions from Council.

F

Full question: um if the body's already on the chief's budget, why does it need to come to us for this budgetary season.

G

G

N

More transparency, um I just wouldn't want to start something new and not have you all involved in that conversation I, don't think that would be um a good business practice. It's not how I've led the department I want you to all to understand, be transparent and understand the direction of the department, any programs that we start.

G

And I think, given the questions that we feel the last time it was that made it appropriate yep.

F

Well, that's fair, I was just there's a dollar amount, obviously, but it's in your budget already so I just wanted to I was just curious as to why yeah preference um yeah I mean this was part of our policy priorities back from May, so I I don't have any further questions. Thank you.

D

um I'm curious what the asset forfeiture funds can be used for. I'm, not I, don't have I understand the.

B

D

Funds I, don't under I, don't think I've been filled in or don't remember, being filled in on the asset forfeiture fund. Sure.

N

The the major uses are equipment, training and programs.

K

Funds is that they must be used to supplement your programming. You cannot use it to supplant existing governmental funds.

G

And is it specific to law enforcement and drug enforcement or anything else? Drug related also.

N

Law enforcement purposes online, yeah.

D

um So I was doing a little bit of research on this and discovered that there are actually quite a few communities in Chittenden County that have canine units yeah.

N

Yeah I think we're the only one that doesn't.

D

I guess I was under the impression that we wanted a canine unit, because we would be unique and not that we were unique, because we didn't have one.

N

So the way I would describe this best is that um you know the police departments are on duty 24 hours a day, seven days a week, which is 168 hours a week. If you have a canine Officer, they obviously work 40 hours a week and then based on each individual's Department's needs and wants for when they want that canine available training vacations sick days.

N

You can't have enough dogs we've there's several times. We've called for canines on major incidents where there just didn't happen to be one on duty, so we're just adding to that that overall resource for the county.

D

um And there's also thinking about. What's the you know, police officers, you have a retirement time frame, what's a retirement time frame for a canine unit.

N

So I'll tell you that's a moving Target depending on the dog, the size of the dog. What its career looks like, but generally the accepted practice for that investment is eight to twelve years.

D

And remind me what the breed of the dog you are searching for. I.

N

Believe it's Malinois.

B

N

A

How to spell that, can you say it again: yeah.

N

Malinois believe.

A

N

The spelling, Malinois Malinois, okay, it's a smaller um I, think sub family of the German Shepherd, but a smaller, more agile, dog.

F

Technically, a Belgian Malinois, that's about Malinois.

D

um And I uh I'm also in doing some additional research notice that Wilson has a comfort canine program. They.

N

D

um Is that something that you've considered.

N

uh Actually, yes and I plan on coming back to you, I didn't want to come at you with too many new things all at once, but it is being discussed where uh we have an officer who is actually interested in that uh the cost is very minimal because you don't have to outfit a cruiser. It's just the Handler taking care of the dog and bringing it back and forth to work.

N

I am very interested in that, because I believe we could, we could serve two purposes right, like the police, canine Patrol canine serves a purpose, but we could also do a lot of Outreach and um I think there's a need and a purpose for a comfort dog here. That would be a good fit to have both but I didn't you know we.

H

N

Just barely scratching the surface, with this and I've touched base with Williston on what's involved and what their experience has been has been very uh a very positive experience. So I think it's something I'll be bringing to you with the perspective Handler soon.

D

And I would love to hear a little bit more about the policies so I seen nationally. There's some transition away from bite and hold to um bark and freeze or something like that. I don't have the terminology correct, but um what's Vermont's training policy.

N

So I don't want to speak out of turn. I am not a canine expert, I I. My belief is, is that um they they have transitioned to that as well. That is not just a release. Invite program anymore and hasn't been for some time.

D

And do we have any sense of what, uh if there are any lawsuits against Vermont municipalities for canine uh units, I'm.

N

Not aware that, if any of that have been publicized.

D

I have to say that the Comfort canine program sounds more attractive to me personally, um just from again really high level research on canine units and history of canine units. um So it's kind of throw where my, where my feelings are with that at the moment.

G

N

I I completely understand and counselor Oakleaf I I appreciate that context. um Here's here's my take on a lot of things. Almost everything in policing, you have two trains of thought on right, like fair and impartial policing, use of force, qualified immunity.

N

um The list goes on and on and on where there's two very different trains of thought: I respect both sides and try and figure out what's best for our community.

N

um As far as the patrol canine, my thought process, for that is it's a tool for our Patrol Division to both feel the officer is an officer safety um program that will help them feel safe.

N

It will add to our capacity without having to add an additional human police officer. I think there's an understated value for search and rescue that isn't talked about enough with a canine if a child or somebody with diminished mental capacity, was to wander off that could be utilized for that cadaver recovery. There's there's a lot of different uh certifications that a canine can get that it's not just what people see on TV right as a patrol dog that um is jumping out of a patrol car all the time and.

H

N

Is a community outreach um piece to that I think the Comfort dog would be more suited to that and be more I would be more comfortable if it's going to be in a loud, noisy setting with multiple people coming and wanting to touch and pet. The dog that I think a comfort dog is more suited.

N

For that, and uh you know my thought process for the canine is that this is a tool for patrol to help keep our officers safe to support that and uh to give them buy-in and investment in the department that they're getting a specialized assignment without taking from the patrol schedule. Right now,.

C

B

C

I ask um wait, it's kind of presented in the memo and what you talked about last time was that it really the stuff the idea was for it to be tracking and clearing buildings. Would this dog ever be used in uh like a confrontation, or are you strictly feel more comfortable if it was just strictly for thinking about tracking and clearing buildings.

N

I think that's something that we need to to weigh um the investment and what the purpose of the dog is on. As a patrol um I think it would be short-sighted to not have it be available in a situation where we needed a dog to act, to enter a building and do that.

N

So I guess the short answer is yes, it would be trained in that um you know, with the understanding that it's not just um a bite dog- and you know, there's there's limited circumstances for that, which is uh one thing I wanted to mention um is that the Vermont criminal justice Council has a subcommittee specific to the canines, the canine programs and they're in charge of oversight best practices. I can send you that link if you're interested in learning more about it, they meet quarterly.

N

They track both training and in-field uses for those dogs and go over that regularly to make sure that the best outcomes are happening. So I would rely on the experts that are actually doing that training doing that business.

N

To talk about the pros and cons of the questions that you've brought up.

E

um I'll uh just kind of add on to what Thomas said: I've no further concerns on this um I think you explained the the benefit to our officers and we can't engage them in kind of leaving work training. This is a real opportunity to provide something to the officers and we can't support them in other ways, monetarily right now, so, given that this is something we've already approved once I I'm supportive of continuing that approval. Thank you.

N

B

Hope you all know, I'm sorry, no go ahead. I was just going to say, I hope. You all know.

N

That you know we built a relationship over the years and I take very seriously police services and how we deliver those services in the city and that will continue after me. My officers also take that very seriously. Nobody wants to come into work and be involved in a use of force situation that you know, optically doesn't look great to the public. That's not what we're trying to do here.

N

We're trying to build capacity, um we're also trying to retain young employees that are surrounded by um quite frankly, communities all around us that are hiring and interested in fully trained officers. So this is about officer safety, officer retention, you know and creating an environment that they feel some buy-in to the police department where they want to make it. You know an eight or twelve year career out of that and a canine can do that for somebody.

A

Because I was just going to invite public comment if there's any questions or comments about this topic,.

D

So I have a procedural question. Yeah um so I know that this is on for discussion. Approval uh I, don't know if it's generic enough as uh Winooski Police Department K-9 program to um amend it to add a comfort, canine authorization as well.

A

If we want to like pre-authorize that yeah.

N

That would be wonderful.

A

Someone could make a motion to that effect. All right. Second,.

N

Is it okay? If we come back to you at some point and do.

A

A project I think we should I think we should because I also wonder, because this doesn't warn the Comfort canine, so I think it should come back.

N

We'd be happy to do that. Okay,.

A

So we have a motion by Brennan in a second by Jim, all those in favor. Please say: aye.

B

A

Any opposed okay motion carries. Thank you very much. Thank you. We are on to H the Strategic strategic Vision area goal update for safe, healthy connected people.

M

John is still on there um as well John Audi, but um per usual. You know. Hopefully these updates are pretty straightforward. um Definitely excited to see it's more green than last time on here, which was good, I. Think a few things that had been lagging a little bit seemed to get a jump start but I'm happy to answer any questions that folks have on this. This update.

A

F

It's good to see green.

A

G

Paul, if you want to drop that link to the chat for the public to eat, for the public use of reference.

D

um I I guess just elaborating and revisiting conversation from previous weeks about the O'brien, Center and um sure kind of how can we continue to optimize that space while negotiations are ongoing, sure.

N

M

D

You know Council has allocated some. You know indicated some intention to continue to optimize that in the FY 24 budget, but yeah. Obviously you know there's there's still six five six months left of this year as well, yeah.

M

And I I mean I, you can throw tomatoes or whatever if I get off track, but I think you know definitely want to say. While that was an item listed in green, multiple government agencies, trying to talk about the transition of property is slow, and so it's moving, but just at the pace of government as we like to joke so I do think. There's you know good faith, good work happening there um in the interim. You know again.

M

My department is really looking at how to re-allocate time and resources, especially during the non-summer months towards weekends and evenings, and so I have a couple staff members pretty much every week that are shifting and and making themselves available to make that space open to the public. We're definitely committed to doing that. I certainly think, as we get closer to Summer and and our busy season really picks up. That does become a little bit more challenging for us.

M

Conveniently though, folks desire to be inside dwindles a bit too so I think we will see a bit of a leveling there, um but again we're committed to continuing to try to make that available where we can um I think we're still not at a point capacity wise, where we're ready to sort of fully advertise and promote and really you know, Go full bore there, but we're certainly answering the phone when folks are calling.

D

And I guess in that same vein, is there any contingency planning on this on this effort if the com negotiations take longer than expected,.

G

uh Yeah I think Angela's buddy.

A

B

G

That Angela um had designed in into the recommendation, is like status quo like what we have going on now. So.

B

G

Is basically the contingency plan, the continuous this plan, some.

H

Of the Deferred.

G

Maintenance will might have to come back on, but we aren't planning on so, unfortunately, that's a reserves, conversation, okay,.

M

I would say too, though, just to add to that I think if we find ourselves in a position where the transfer that building is not going to move forward, we have a bunch of empty space, then that we would move to sort of activate in a different way and probably look to bring in tenants on. As my my guess, I don't think we're going to want to sit on that as empty space in perpetuity. I think we've been holding it. Knowing there may be changes afoot, but um I think that's.

M

Another piece that would be would help impact the budget in a positive way.

D

Right and I guess I'm just wondering: is there a capacity for us to how long can we wait? How long should we wait.

G

Well, I'd say that, though the way the conversations are going um I do feel like this is the best option. So as long as they seem viable, that's how long I think we should wait and in terms of budgeting I mean yes at some point, the Deferred maintenance will be throwning, so I don't have a like a month in that I. Don't know that John does either.

D

I guess I don't want to get three years down the road and be like.

H

B

D

Have had a plan, or we should have had a point in time where, if this, if this particular mile marker isn't met by this timeline, do we start to talk about pivoting, yeah.

G

That's fair and I I do this would be another thing for the May um strategy priority session, but okay. That feels like plenty of time from where the conversation is now to be like. Okay, let's be real now yeah, okay,.

A

C

Else have questions.

A

Was there any public comment? No that Paul has shared the file for a minute.

A

Okay, let's move to item I. Thank you guys thanks.

A

um This is on for discussion, approval the info sheet for the voter back Charter change.

G

So at council's January 3rd 2023 meeting Council directed staff to prepare an information sheet to Aid consistent messaging regarding a voter initiated, Charter change proposal to empower the proposal is to empower Council to adopt a just cause. Eviction ordinance that by Statute must be presented to voters on the next town meeting Dave at the ballot, meaning the charter change needs to be presented to voters Council.

B

G

Requested input from the inclusion and belonging commission and the Housing Commission, the feedback from the inclusion and belonging commission was incorporated in the attachment. The.

B

Housing Commission consensus.

G

And I imagine councilor. Nothing will have more to say about this, but in short, was that the second page could be seen as negative rather than neutral and that it should not be included.

G

So uh one ask of council tonight is whether you want changes made to the information sheet and then, um if so then endorse those changes or endorse it. The way it is the.

B

G

Is to discuss whether and what education efforts you want staff to spend time and money on, including what audiences and how and again for the Public's reminder I'm asking for this position for staff I'm! Sorry for this direction, for staff in public of council, so that that um staff activity on this valid item is transparent and hopefully reduces the likelihood that the degree of Staff effort or lack of Staff effort is perceived as not being neutral. When the intent is to be neutral for staff to be neutral.

A

Thank you. Well, let's focus first on content.

A

Do you want to add any Housing Commission contacts.

E

Sure I can provide a little. The consensus is, as uh Elaine said, um the second page in its entirety was deemed not impartial um and even the data portion, the commission discussed a little bit. The numbers around evictions in the county includes you know not just a Winooski um and not only no cause evictions so that eviction data put against the housing data quickly will look, will not be inter is hard to interpret that accurately without really reading into the footnotes and understanding what the data means. So they thought they wouldn't be very informative.

E

I would be telling the picture that probably a lot of people would take from it. So the data piece also um was not seen as very helpful and I think the one other change the commission discussed was making it clear that you know this is a voter-backed petition and not a result of a city effort and if that's the case, to put that on the top. If the summary does say that so I think that that um that particular comment is kind of Incorporated in the text as it is so.

E

The Housing Commission recommendation was to just put it forward, as it is with the first page, potentially adding something a little bit more embolded to mention that all right and I missed anything Elaine or anything else that you would clarify. Okay,.

A

What about so? The reason we put the put the programs on there was because we wanted this to be another opportunity to let people know what's available to them. Did that come up.

E

Yeah there, even even articulating all the other stuff we're doing listening, is somewhat unbiased and somewhat biased.

B

E

In or conflating that this is one of many efforts of the Housing Commission, so I think trying to explain that this is or sorry of the city the housing commissioning Council. So the distinction between this is a voter box effort that the city is trying to educate people about the implications of versus or what it means to vote on this versus. Where does this fit within all of our wooden ski housing work? um There's. Definitely we talked about that opportunity to educate and to expose is important, but then it muddies the connection between this.

E

These two efforts, I guess, was the takeaway that wasn't clear direction from the commission on that I think that's something we could talk about. Yeah.

G

B

E

General, not in favor of not having the entire Backpage was the consensus.

C

I had a similar thought to the mayor, and maybe it is striking some of the items under policies and programs and maybe to labeling it resources, because I still see the value in you know using this as an opportunity to share resources and I'm just trying to figure out I I agree that kind of the the I guess the effects um definitely feel like negative and that kind of the data almost feels like the reverse. It feels like a positive um because people might read it and be like.

C

Oh that's how many no-cause evictions have happened instead of it being fully understood I, as you mentioned, uh councilor Duncan, um but I I do feel like there might be some items under policies and programs that are worthwhile to keep and maybe even listing opportunity. I mean I was thinking too. If this is something that's going to be a web page, you could then have links to contact information or, if folks want to attend or join the Housing Commission um links to ISO to the form items like that.

C

That are just um more if you want to engage in other ways or something like our again. Like resources that seems valuable to me.

A

I feel like we could take a you know. If we're scrapping the data, the Box could be housing, resources and labeled as such to kind of separate it yeah like while we're on the topic of evictions. Here's yeah I like.

C

E

And I think the one drawback to that again is the. This is a communication to the public from the council and from staff, and does it complete the two right? Is this one more of our housing resources, or is this and and I think we we want to think carefully not only about what this would communicate to folks who might consider voting for this or against this, but also folks would be impacted by this, both renters and landlords and I.

E

Think that's where I I emerged from that discussion at the Housing Commission thinking more about the implications for that of making it very clear that this is a fact sheet about just cause eviction, Charter change, voting, what it means and what it'll do and what it won't do, or how the process unfolds versus like what the city is doing about housing right, I,.

H

Think those are those are.

E

Two things: if they're on the same pamphlet, they're, both a city, thing and I, think that that may be positive to somebody, and it may be a negative to somebody else and, and so I just think when we I'm imagining a landlord who, for rightly or wrongly, is really concerned about just cause eviction and capacity in the community to see this.

E

The city's programs put alongside it can look like an endorsement, so I think there's that there's that I don't know what the right answer is, but it's a concern that I have about what this will mean or message to people about where the city stands. As the council. Let's say, staff stands on this issue.

C

Yeah and we sorry no.

F

You can start before me.

C

um And kind of looking at again I think yeah the policies in particular and where I fall back. Is the programs I wonder then you're right like on the pamphlet going out just including the info from the front page, but then maybe having in a little box at the bottom on the web page links to other resources.

A

So we kind of balance it yeah I feel like we could just have a single link if you're looking for housing resources, we have the Housing Resource and initiatives page that has a lot of this stuff on it. So it's it's really like one sentence.

E

Yeah I also could see a second page like a separate sheet that comes with us to events that.

B

E

That as well the different branding potentially and something else to consider, so we can still have the opportunity to put out information about housing resources in the community like need help. Now these are things that are already here, for you.

C

Yeah, especially the Housing Trust Fund, which I feel like we've, been looking for ways to promote.

B

C

Too so it feels like a good opportunity and that is, can be used by landlords, homeowners and renters. So.

A

um We'll talk more about education Outreach in a minute, but I did want to say that I brought this up with the housing Roundtable group that I've been meeting with monthly, um and so they were interested in.

A

There was I should say there was interest in if we're having Outreach opportunities like we could share information from other agencies as.

B

A

Again, that's separate from this. um So as a reminder that group is who's in there, the Housing Authority School District, Champlin, Housing Trust, our chair of the Housing Commission.

A

um Not you I'm, just putting you because you're on the commission, um someone from UVM Medical Center, um you know and they they.

O

A

Oh yeah CVO is usually represented. There wasn't anyone there last week, um so they were generally supportive of this and.

A

That's that's all I need to say. Actually they were just generally supportive of this and and thought it was an opportunity to maybe get other resources out too I'm. Sorry I'm, like diverting us from the question at hand,.

F

Something I think could be useful. Oh I feel about like with most ballot measures. People just want to have time to process the language, because a lot of times the first time they're seeing it is when they step into the booth.

B

F

Like maybe even just putting the actual language that they'll see on the ballot, take it out of legal ease and put it into plain English I think that alone helps people or.

D

Even just put it on the second, the back page right.

F

Yeah yeah I mean somewhere on here, I.

D

Just think like this, even even as it is because that's gonna have to be what they're voting on I I support the plain language and I I think I can see also staff having a hard time being like. How do you want me to words with.

F

D

I I do I would struggle seeing the first page without any more context.

A

Do you want to speak to the.

G

Yes, you might.

A

Have seen some of my officials, I did yeah.

G

Actually, we asked the City attorney just for the warning whether it should be shortened and city clerk had a valid, a concern that it might get lost. I think it's similar to what your concern is and his suggestion is: do it in full, because there is a risk in staff. You know shortening it.

F

Yeah I just think giving people time to read it I mean you know. You know, because here we talk about it, but um even the second page like doesn't actually tell you what it is. It just.

C

Yeah I agree and that might both make this tool valuable for um especially valuable thinking about interpretation, but also, if folks are getting this and then coming to event or getting it and then reaching out to their counselors. They have the question they can be like this part. I, don't understand. Could you explain that to me more so yeah yeah I, like that.

A

um I have to say: I I had initially I, don't love, leaving out the context of the impacts and had initially thought about like a condensed what I thought of as less negative version, but then I think we're also we're able to share the impacts on City operations, but we're not also saying the potential impacts on if the thing is in place, which I think is hard to do so. I would be supportive of dropping the back content, putting the ballot language on there and adding just one link to more information. Yeah.

D

um As I was looking at some of what um Burlington had on their Resource page, they had an FAQ I, don't know if we've got enough questions yet already to start populating an FAQ with some responses.

A

Perhaps after the hearings, yeah.

D

B

D

In in that it just I mean if one person's asking the question I'm sure other people are asking are thinking some of the same things. So having a a support, a supplemental document could be helpful and I know. There's struggles with staying neutral and I still think it's.

A

Better than nothing I thought the first half of Burlington's was neutral and the second half was not.

B

I mean that was entirely different, that wasn't a petition.

D

An initiative that was a council moved I.

A

Think we can revisit that the FAQ idea after we have these public hearings yeah.

C

I could see that being part of the general page too depend if it's just a couple two having at the bottom, and it might be that rewording some of the language we have on the back like we have that written now. If there are ways we can reword it, that then answer questions that.

B

C

We yeah we it's a resource that we now have so I think it's uh helpful to have, even if it's not what we're going to really put forward to residents.

D

Yeah all right, theirs is almost two pages single spaced.

D

um But again, their process is different than ours and we're going to have different questions than what they were considering and addressing.

G

um I, don't know what their time frame was, but they had more staff support answers. Well,.

G

That's part of your next conversation about efforts. It's.

A

A so are we in agreement on the changes to the document, fantastic.

E

Yeah, so just one quick, clarifying question on the arrows: there's moonski city council votes to move forward or stop law created city council.

A

Votes yeah, it shouldn't, say, city council right well,.

E

I'm just I'm wondering what the second vote of the city so there's. If the charter is approved by the legislature and the governor, then we have that in our Charter we can vote to create an ordinance but I don't understand I, guess I just want to check what the second vote was implying.

G

E

It to put it to public hearing and then to approve or.

A

Oh, maybe is it that we we vote to start creating ordinance, and then we have to vote on the ordinance.

E

So we're going to initiate the process of.

B

The finalize that.

G

When um one last time before we put it in there and in the packet and I thought about that, was.

G

B

G

It you'd have to take it up. That's really the point yeah. So they're we've completed a little bit to make it hopefully more digestible, but essentially you're deciding whether or not you take it up and I assume that you'd be voting whether or not to take it up.

A

D

So yeah I do agree. That's confusing.

A

um It's confusing.

D

For us, is it confusing, for others, I mean I.

B

See it's not a good sign.

E

um I wonder if it could be because I get the I get what it means. But when you see city council votes to move forward or stop, that essentially is like we will produce an ordinance for public hearing or not. And then after public hearing there's a final vote to adopt or not and I wonder if we instead of saying lock, created it's just public input and final Council vote and if yes, so there's like a like I'd say like a first, would you ski counts like on the SEC?

E

The third one is the first Winooski City Council vote and the final one City Council vote just to make it clear that there's like two steps in that process, with additional public input, there's a lot to cram into boxes. But somehow it like.

D

I agree that the law created is the sticking.

E

Point, that's the part. That's messing me up yeah, maybe that's what it is if we could just get rid of Vlog created somehow public.

A

Hearings, sure or public input.

E

Public I do like showing.

A

That there is another step for the public before yeah.

D

um And then just to pose the question: there's a validation vote. That's not reflected on this timeline.

A

I feel like that's two in the weeds.

G

That was my reason for not including it I feel like it will introduce confusion for, but it's also part of the process. I understand um and.

F

Maybe that needs to be harder than the I'm. Sorry. Why.

G

I was like five or one, as opposed to close I'm, not.

D

Strongly against it is one point I I guess not leaving out. The validation vote to me leaves out a pretty significant procedural stuff that we are being required to follow.

E

Might be required to follow if there's an estate required.

G

E

We would abandon it if there's a Statewide Statewide effort on just cause like we wouldn't have to go through it without our Charter change process. At that point, we could just kind of abandon. That's.

A

E

We wouldn't have to have a validation vote.

A

I think it would depend how they wrote it. You know yeah.

G

A

We may not be advisable, we probably should do it no matter what? Because we screwed up the thing that I.

E

Think, given the poor reporting in for GT Digger about what happened, I think it would be the who bust. He lists um yeah.

B

E

The fact that this there's going to be a like a procedural vote um as part of the step, it could even be like a box like the light blue box underneath voters. Vote on Charter change may require procedural second procedural vote just to because I think it is like it is another chance to vote on the thing, but it is like doing the same step twice and I think we could relegate that to a sub box.

C

I I, like that idea, yeah.

A

Yeah, it is super confusing, but it does if later we're telling people to vote on it again. They're.

C

A

C

And we can go into more detail too at like the public hearing.

B

C

We can we have the basic information going out. People can be like well. What is that little blue box? Let's.

E

Talk about the validation boat.

B

D

I'm comfortable with that I I do think it needs to be on here. um So, if that's, if that seems like it's the best place, I'm fine with that, okay.

A

E

um So if you want to simplify the whole graphic, I think you could lump three and four together. Would you see city council votes twice or two two rounds or two Lucy city council goes through ordinance development if yes and votes? If, yes, just cause eviction to kind of? If we get to the point of doing minuski votes on creating an ordinance, we can explain the whole introduction hearing hearing passage like at.

B

E

um If you wanted to collapse some boxes and reduce the complexity of the graphic, that's one thing that I think is can be is lumpable that there's an ordinance passage procedure for the city council. If we get the charter change.

C

Like the simple but I wonder, if then that it doesn't work as well as a timeline would be my concern, because.

B

C

Specifically, no specific timeline, but then the two months so I think that would be my concern.

A

Okay cool, so we want to call out that it's a voter back petition. We have the validation vote. We changed law created to public input.

A

We scrapped the back, put the ballot language in add a single sentence, link to our housing resources, page.

A

Motion by Jim second, by Aurora, before we vote, do you do you? Is that good? Do you have enough information? uh Yes,.

G

A

Share this with you, too, okay.

G

Piece of papers.

A

All those in favor, please say aye aye motion carries let's talk about Outreach now I do want to let you know that. Let you all know that um last week, I reached out to my contacts in the Somali Association and the Congolese Association um generally about this item, as well as the budgets to get a conversation going there I don't know if they're going to want to come to one of our events or, if we're going to go to them, but um have started that Outreach and something that I was thinking about too is so.

A

We have these public hearings for this item, but when we do our budget presentations, we always include ballot initiatives too. So there's also three additional opportunities to to talk about this.

A

um I believe what staff has presented here kind of aligns to what we some things we have done in the past. Elaine I, don't know if you or Paul want to talk through.

G

H

Actually, what.

G

I'd like to do is.

G

Raise the caution that there might to the extent that our limited English proficiency residents are renters.

G

D

G

um Of Education effort that is implied not decided applied by the types of budget policy requested so far, is that we would be perceived to be concentrating on a.

B

G

Education effort and I haven't heard anything yet on landlord education effort.

C

I I feel like we could push back against that by specifically pointing to the equity audit that we are. What this represents is the city doing Equity efforts, it's not the city prioritizing it's the city, equalizing, so I don't know if that is useful, but I I.

C

It feels like I. Both can see why people would make that argument, but I also don't think it's a good argument. That should mean we do less Equity work. That would be. My concern is like I hear that, but unless that that doesn't mean we should do less Equity works, Outreach to landlords, I, guess I would let my fellow counselors weigh in with that, but I definitely want feel like to meet the goals we have set out in various ways.

C

We should do um what needs to be done to get the information out in a way that is accessible to our residents, and that should be the priority.

D

Is there a total for the estimates here.

G

No because I didn't know if you were picking and choosing from a menu or if.

D

G

Was the full course meal.

D

um So I would agree with counselor herd that um uh things should be additive at this point from what's on here, uh I think there are some additional things that we should do to notify landlord Property Owners um bulk mailer. So right now it says to all addresses in manuski: I think that needs to go to property owners, um the landlords so print and digital. So I think the fire department also has a number of emails, and that's um really uh just labor in terms of cost um and I.

D

Don't know how much a bulk mailer would add in an additional cost. um So I don't know what additive expense would be there, but I'd say at least in those two instances. um We should we should add uh landlords property owners as part of the Outreach effort.

A

What would go on a bulk mailer.

F

Will it just because it's fact she it may look for him.

P

Is that quickly, based on what we've done in the past? If you remember for separate initiatives like um all Resident voting and for um for Main Street or what you're looking at the cost that's associated, there is a 5x5 uh postcard, so it is teeny economy, um but remember we did one for the Centennial birthday party as well.

P

uh So there's no way you can get the entire fact sheet from there, but you could lead it to the web page and the QR code and get a sample there and then the the costs that are included on that page. Should the students really two causes production for printing and then posted, which is uh which is separate, but um you could I mean you could summarize a you know, a high level thing on one side and.

A

Then um links directives on the second.

A

Are we considering? This is a question for us a mailer just for this, or do we want one for the but like for town meeting day like there's a charter change, there's a budget.

E

Yeah, it should be for town meeting.

C

A

um During coven, um and that was um in lieu of mailing a ballots, every household we did a postcard with the information yeah.

F

I just have a question about that price. Have we pursued other printing companies because I happen to know you can print something much bigger than that and send it to the hotel for cheap for about that same price?.

F

Business we've been doing a business with them for quite a few years. We get our annual reports there, so we do try to prioritize no.

P

Because they're opening business, you know they also the the monthly newsletter. Let me just keep newsletter, so they have the system down um pretty quickly and that's the reason why we press that out that way,.

F

And that said, I guess we could put the whole fact sheet in the newsletter.

P

You are um we're not uh well, maybe it would be the only part of the land um a little bit before more.

G

So you could, you could eventually do a good chunk of that yeah. Do you have the? Could you figure out the cost poll where we're sitting here of that extra page ant cost to us? We already fund half of that publication.

A

So we would just send it approach to the editor.

A

Well it we can't put the public hearings in there like it's too late for.

F

That right, right.

A

We can have the summary uh website, questions and info on Charter changes. I think that's all I would shoot for.

D

So the front and back of the sheet that we just put it on.

A

Well, not this section and I would say not the back, not the not the proposed language unless we're putting the whole like 10 meeting day.

D

What would we do for our resident voting.

A

D

What would be a best practice.

A

um Also, when is the next news: when does the newsletter due? When is the next due date for the newsletter like we're too late for February? Aren't we.

P

Too late for February, so we're looking at March right now, they're.

A

Not gonna people aren't gonna, get it in time.

P

D

That's another Point yeah.

E

As much as possible, I think it would be good to combine town meeting day general information with this um and I think even thinking about interpreted sessions, if we're gonna put interpretation dollars to something I would love to see it be at our budget presentation and discussion of this rather than public hearings, specifically on this and leaving interpretation and I, don't know if this is, if they're already planned for interpretation at so just think about interpretation, specifically I'd like to snack, coordinate with town meeting day in general, the budget presentations and in general.

E

How much can we get both and not do two separate Communications campaigns around this and our budget.

G

Well, so the public hearings had to be warned for this yeah yeah, okay,.

E

Which is fine, I think some of this might fit specifically for the public hearings. I was thinking like maybe we first knock off what can be done in tandem with time, meeting, day communications and then what's left over, that we have to do specific for this in the public hearings and.

C

In one of the public, do you mean in the announcement we said the second one would have interpreters.

G

You haven't said anything: okay, okay, we didn't have drugs, that's I,.

C

Just want to confirm yeah.

G

I was thinking the other way like. Would we be adding a budget I guess.

B

G

I, don't know that it matters, but it's not I mean. Is that a public hearing on the budget as well I, don't know if we'd have to run Ryan or if it's informational on the budget and the hearing on the.

C

D

Want to risk it I guess on January 3rd I had the impression that we were going to have interpreters at the fourth. That's.

A

What we did discuss.

D

A

A desire to do that.

E

Yep, that's right.

C

I think I'd still have that desire, because I think I, like I, think what we talked about of having one that's in the evening with virtual access and then having one on the weekend with interpreter access, feels um kind of Equitable in reaching different parts of the community.

C

I think that would be my preference is to continue with that. I do acknowledge, though, that there's the note that it with so many languages, it would be hard to hear so that that is I'm, not sure.

C

If there's a best course of action with that or if we just build in to have those.

D

Does our Zoom account have uh features that allow translation.

P

uh No, that's, um you know, interpreters for that I mean on a technical level. Yes, but um I mean that we're talking about the the 26th resume as possible in the council chambers and not possible for the O'brien center right.

D

And I'm thinking about the because this one's the 26 will be recorded if a language option via Zoom is something that's included in one of our paid features or not. Yes,.

B

D

It I also think we should have in-person interpreters for the fourth.

C

A

The when we had um an all-resident voting info session with interpretation at the O'brien Center like it's, not super smooth, but they were kind of like different groups seated together and it worked okay, yeah.

C

I, remember like just like planning in the pauses to ensure folks can go through the interpretation yeah.

A

Thank you I think it's a little bit challenging because for like people asking questions, but that's what we can provide right now, yeah.

C

Maybe a plan to like go in a circle and continue.

A

Making sure that you ask, does your group have a question yeah yeah.

E

I think so just kind of let's starting to pick menu items. If we focus on translation into eight languages that we can get access to locally, because it really adds up like 170 to do more. But we do the eight languages, interpretation, male or combined with town meeting day info.

E

uh Pamphlets I think we got the fact sheet. We just put the fact sheet: let's just get the pamphlets and then I think it might be worth doing the hybrid meeting recording because that's a distributable resource afterwards on the 26th. So essentially from this list, I would say: let's not do the pamphlets and if we want to save 170 I, think it's okay to do eight, as opposed to 11.. They'll have less than ideal.

A

I would agree with all of that.

C

Yeah and I think maybe I'm forgetting um with the recording. If we're recording the um one in the evening, we might be able to find ways to interpret it after the fact I don't know. If we'd want to talk about that now or see, if that's a possibility, I.

D

Also have a question just before we get into that um I thought our contract for timing. Tv had one additional meeting. Does that go to the Planning Commission.

A

Paul keeps track.

P

It's straight someone meetings now, so that's generally two Council meetings and then either a planning um or DRP we're pretty deep yeah. We've also exceeded that um right, specifically for having an appeal, providescent or not, it's a it's a technical thing where they can't they can't be down there. They can only be in the council chambers. Oh.

D

I know about that.

A

um Aurora to your thing about, we could have a video translated after I might wait to see how that goes and see how productive the discussion is. There's also we're recording our budget presentation for town meeting TV on the 9th 10th, so we could also maybe like that's more worthwhile, putting.

C

It in there and having it very specific informational, yeah.

A

C

I can see that that might be a better tactic, um but again we have it recorded So. If they're like oh there, we got it really good. These 10 minutes of explanation, yeah.

A

If something really good comes out of the 26, we can talk about that talk about using it yeah that sounds good.

A

I mean we also can just print these black and white at City Hall and distribute some versus like nicer, pamphlets.

C

Are expensive? We have to use them.

A

Are there any public comments on this item.

E

The only thing I don't see I did want to kind of come back to your point to lane or your your observation that this is not really reaching like we're going to rely on really passive uh uptake by landlords that this is happening, especially like smaller owners, I'm, not thinking of like the bigger corporate Property Owners, the folks who own, like four units, um how they'll get access to this information they'll find out about that on the mail there they'll get that that's really the only resource, that's kind of actively going to them. Well,.

G

A

The email yeah.

E

Can't we email them all is that something that you can do like that was my question is: can we use the rental registry? Is this a sufficient another desire to be judicious with how much goes out on that email list? Is this of sufficient import that the city can notify that these public hearings are coming up to that community.

G

uh I think we would be remiss if we did not.

E

C

Okay and include interpretation information on that too right um or just yeah.

G

Meetings, yeah yeah.

C

That's what I mean.

B

C

Exactly sorry, that's what I was reading is.

D

There any channel, that's missing and I presume like one another thing I wanted to ask about is frequency, so some of things are one time so bulk mailer, that's a one-time thing.

D

um What would be an example of multiple frequency touch points.

G

Well so Apollo I'm gonna put you on a spot here in a minute. um Thinking of like how many times you were, you know, alert voters to all uh president voting um I think what else I mean the fire truck. You actually didn't do too much so Paul. Do you have a record of how many times I mean not specifically but roughly We messaged about all Resident voting right.

P

Off the top of my head, no, um but you know as far as things that can be duplicated. Obviously your social media posts can be re-shared. You know asking you know Partners to share that stuff, and um those are your. Those are your repeat uh situations that you want to do thoughtfully. You want to hammer it every day and lose you lose traction on that.

C

But um yeah, so those would be those instances. It still includes something in the newsletter, as don't forget, town meeting day, there's also this ballot item.

D

um The listserv is not on here.

G

D

The opt-in, email, Lister, email.

P

Subscribers, it's supposed to be.

P

Less than 300 email subscribers there and that would be you know a general news update same as all the other ones, yeah.

E

It's in the the separate memo about the communication Outlets of the city in general, okay,.

C

B

C

Of tied to that, do we think that the community service WhatsApp account um that's a other, slightly smaller context, but um uh could be used as well.

C

Yes, I mean that's. Why it's on the okay that I assumed.

G

B

C

G

Yeah again, we're we're not we're not trying to advocate for, for even a specific Outreach want to try and share with you all the options that you have so that you can tell us what you want.

A

I mean all the regular social pushes social media pushes I would I would anticipate. We put everything out that way.

E

Yeah, the hearings are normal channels, yeah.

A

E

Then meeting day in general is normal channels and then we've identified additional expenditures for the Charter change from.

G

That whole menu in terms of the info sheet, so you want that translated.

A

G

Think so right yeah, so the quote we have is for the for the two pages, but the charter language is going to be in more. It will be more text except you.

F

Might have that quote already for yeah, because it has to be in the ballot for.

G

Those something.

E

G

Someone can look at to vote with right so.

E

That's already going to be done.

E

So that's not really included here, like we basically lose a page of or cutting the pages in half for this quote or not quite an half but there's less content to translate well.

G

There's more well well,.

A

We have to translate the warning without language anyway: yeah yeah, okay,.

A

Assuming that the translations are not ready in time for the hearings.

A

We can I think if we did whatever the communication is. That goes out around like town meeting day, which would include this ballot item like that, can include the here's how to access the the thing that we do. That says like to see this in Nepali or whatever the different languages are yeah and um I. You know, I would also just share directly with some folks that I know that in certain languages, because I also put things out in.

H

A

It is not a specific, targeted thing, but.

A

Yeah I I guess what I'm trying to articulate is not going to be ready by Thursday for sure and if it's not ready by Saturday, we can still push out this information it's worthwhile to translate, because we can still get it to Partners.

A

Okay, so we, it sounds like from the the list of added costs, we're going to pay for the hybrid access, uh translation of the flyer, to eight languages, um a bulk mailer for town meeting day and just cause eviction. Those are the additional expenses. Then we're also asking for the rental registry email.

D

Community and all Property Owners from maduski, because some of them might not live in honestly.

A

D

I know we're missing out.

F

Are we doing the mailers with them or just the email s?

F

Do we want to know as soon as the email is free.

P

The bulk now are automatically for the assistance.

G

Right but Paula doesn't include all the property owners that own um in Winooski, but don't live in Winooski. Is that correct.

G

Say that again, if the property owner does not live in Winooski, do they get the bulk mailings? Oh right, no.

P

G

Not through the not the global system, it's just the ZIP code, basically right, they.

E

Also, don't get to vote on the petition yeah.

A

So I feel like email's enough I.

E

Think email's enough I.

A

Think it would be a lot of I guess: I, don't know this the legwork to put together those addresses and mail them would be significantly more than just the ZIP code based one yeah.

F

I know yeah and if we have an email that they provided us that we should assume that that is a way of contact.

A

G

Thoughts, information not advocating for against But Eric, our our JS property tax map does that include mailing addresses for owners, that's how it was set up in my other town, so it.

H

Has address information for the owner at the time.

G

Okay, the grand list would have all that information so putting.

B

That, together is.

G

Not it's not the.

A

G

F

Sorry I thought we had just decided on the email, I guess I, just don't see a reason. What if we had every Winooski residence, email, I would say: let's just do that, let's cut no expenses or we can.

E

I think it's a cost, I think it's an appropriate cost savings measure for this one personally, I.

A

Agree since they can't vote on it, they can find out and make comment of course, yeah.

G

I'm sorry I'm backing you up quite a bit now, but um after Christine you gave the list or are you added something and I didn't.

C

A

Oh, the interpretation.

C

The interpretation for Saturday yeah, the Saturday.

G

Be asking you, but um you said, eight languages which, as.

C

Proposed I think in the item yeah yeah, it was mine.

A

It's eight yeah.

G

B

G

Tell you what I'm, asking and again I'm not advocating for against just point of information, so I'm not sure where the eight came from, but um the school district does an annual survey of their language communities and it's currently at 11..

G

E

Looks like it used.

G

To be nine, which is how that that number came about so I.

F

B

F

Some of those languages are not written languages.

B

F

Is that included in the 11 or is it more including the non-written languages.

G

Paul, do you have that off the top right.

P

um I do know I think the intention was to include the the currently updated list that the school district uses um I mean that's basically what we would do right just mirror. The current list of the the school district has my.

E

Understanding is that the aalb only has eight of the 11 languages yeah.

B

A

Can't get a letter, that's what's included yeah.

H

E

That's why I'm, assuming that's where the H interpreted languages came from as well as that.

G

Thank you for reminding me of that. So there there's two options there for the interpretation. I wanted to ask for clear application on. So if we use language link it could support more. However, they would not be providing in-person interpreters.

B

G

It's two different strategies. Basically,.

H

One is you have all the languages in.

G

Writing and then you have interpreters that are looking at someone potentially somebody else's. You know translation to interpret with interpret being the in-person activity. Translation is the room activity so um or you could get fewer languages, but have potential that you know people who are even more familiar with the like, with the content.

A

I would lean towards the ladder.

E

Fever, language isn't.

A

Yeah because there's an opportunity for deeper understanding, yeah.

C

Well, I think maybe more I want I think what was proposed on here has two options for translation. Only one option for interpretation and I think I would also lean to the interpretation in person, but I could see, um especially if maybe this I guess it depends if we're only translating well We're, translating both sides, but primarily for this case.

C

The first side would that two thousand dollars be decreased from Language Link, um because what was provided yeah was one from aalv, which was eight languages and one from Language Link, which was 11 languages and a slight difference in cost.

G

And just to add to that consideration, Paul I feel, like you've, told me before that it might take you all to be a little longer to turn around in a translation is.

B

G

P

Yeah I mean it's definitely, you know part on a case-by-case basis. There's just no way to estimate for that. Sometimes it gets longer. I think for written into your excuse me written translations. Language link is um I, mean they're they're, a huge company, and we've got a really good success in turn that stuff around really quickly. So so you could go, um you could go to language link for for that whole list and then for aalb for interpreters I mean you know, provided that they even have the the capacity and the staff to do it.

P

I don't know we can.

F

Guarantee that um at this stage out there but okay I guess one thing I think about is just kind of like a customer service standpoint. If we translate it into languages that we're not gonna have people for at the hearing or just sending a bunch of people up for failure.

C

It should be fine, yeah, I thought about.

A

That too, but being able to read it and not get follow-up is better than nothing sure I wanted to support the local ity, but given capacity and timeline concerns is.

D

The ballot going to be translated into 11.

A

That's a good question: yeah.

B

Yeah: okay: let's just do that.

G

So hybrid access.

B

G

um February 26th translation into 11 languages from the school bulk mailer for Tom meeting day and just cause eviction interpretation for February Saturday, February 4th from ALB in an email to the public building registry owners.

A

G

That everything, yes.

A

I think so someone want a motion approving that.

E

Second, motion.

A

By Jim, second, by Thomas, all those in favor, please say.

E

A

Aye motion carries all right. Thank you.

A

Let's move on to our last item, then uh this is on for discussion, approval the city manager, review process so per contract. um The city council will perform an annual performance evaluation of the manager. I realized. We did this not that many months ago for Elaine's probationary period. However, I want to get us back into this uh February cycle because it a lot it works well with, for example, we're about to have turnover on the council.

A

I wouldn't want someone evaluating it just a couple months in um so what I have recommended here is the same process we followed before and I am hoping to identify a volunteer to distribute the survey this year.

C

I kind of volunteer to do that. That's.

A

Fantastic um I think you would just need to get access from Paul. Is that right? So.

C

What's that one okay.

D

And I'm happy to chat with you: okay,.

A

A

Yeah, so it was just it was a survey we all filled out. I'll do the right one, this time, we'll.

D

Just make it more clear to simplify.

A

D

A

um And then I have the timeline here, so this says it would be distributed tomorrow. It this week is fine.

B

A

I, don't know what I was thinking and then, um if we have our responses in by end of month, then we have a if we get it by the second. We have time before the sixth to review and um I have a chat with something any uh questions about that.

A

Okay, if, um if that all sounds good, do I have a motion to approve.

E

A

Second motion by Gym: second, by Bryn, all those in favor, please say.

B

A

Curious, thank you. I had worn the executive session just in case. We don't really need it, though. So this brings us to the uh sorry for clarity. The executive session was just in case. We wanted to talk about the evaluation process um in Greater detail.

A

We clearly don't need that, so we can forego that item, which brings us to the end of tonight's agenda. Do I have a motion to adjourn.

F

I don't know second motion.

A

By Thomas second, by Jim, all was in favor. Please say: aye aye motion carries. Thank you all.