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Description
From Senator Sanders Office:
What can we learn from Finland? What can Finland learn from Vermont? I hope you’ll join me next week for a town meeting as we welcome Finland’s Ambassador to the U.S., Mikko Hautala, to Vermont.
What is it like to be a working parent in Finland? To go to the doctor? To pay for college? To find affordable housing? To age with dignity? Why has Finland year after year topped the World Happiness Report list?
We’ll be answering some of these questions and more at the town meeting.
10/20/2022
https://linktr.ee/townmeetingtv
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A
A
So
what
will
do
this
evening
is
I'm
going
to
chat
with
the
Ambassador
and
Maria
for
a
while
and
then
we'll
open
it
up
to
questions.
But
the
reason
I
asked
the
ambassador
to
join
us
in
Vermont
today,
and
we
were
down
at
Harwood
Union
High
School
in
the
afternoon
is
I.
Think
it's
terribly
important
for
people
in
our
state
and
in
the
country
to
understand
that
what
goes
on
in
the
United
States
is
very
different
than
what
goes
on
in
terms
of
social
programming
in
countries
around
the
world
and
I.
A
Think
our
corporate
media
and
our
political
system
do
not
do
a
particularly
good
job
of
educating
Americans
about
options
that
are
open
to
us
that
already
exist
in
countries
around
the
world.
The
Ambassador
was
telling
me
before
and
I
took
it
as
a
compliment
that
My
Views,
which
in
this
country
are
you
know,
I'm
part
of
the
extreme
left
in
Finland
would
be
what
mainstream.
A
A
A
For
the
last
five
years
of
Finland
has
been
has
been
entire
called
the
happiest
country
on
Earth
they're
doing
you
know,
they're
organizations
that
do
intensive
polling
around
the
world
and
they
ask
people
how
they
feel
about
their
lives
and
they
compile
the
information,
and
for
the
last
five
years,
Finland
has
been
literally
on
top
over
the
years
of
the
Scandinavian
countries.
A
lot
of
countries
have
also
done
very
well.
B
B
Actually,
when
I
tell
people
that
Finland
continues
to
be
the
happiest
Nation
on
Earth,
usually
people
get
a
critical
look
and
take
a
look
at
me
and
they
said
I
mean
you,
don't
look
so
happy.
You
look
actually
pretty
serious.
Then
I
always
say
that.
That's
because
I'm
seriously
happy,
but
on
a
more
sort
of
sort
of
a
substantial
note,
I
would
say
that
the
the
key
reason
for
our
happiness
is
definitely
not
the
climate.
It's
not
the
800
mile
common
border
with
Russia.
B
B
We
know
that,
regardless
of
the
origins
we
get
a
good
education,
it's
also
regardless
of
where
do
we
live
I'm
the
Ambassador
here
this
is
my
second
Ambassador
you're
posting
Maria
is
is
here
we
are
actually
from
the
same
town
and
actually
our
parents
were
in
the
exactly
similar
blue
color
professions,
so
it
it's
kind
of
a
of
course
she's
a
bit
younger
than
I
am
so,
but
but
it
tells
you
that
I
think
we
are.
Our
life
is
stable
and
intense
and
stress-free
it's
not
problem-free.
B
We
all
have
problems,
we
all
have
the
same
kind
of
issues
and
challenges,
but
still
I
think
that's
the
reason
that
people
are
not
perhaps
ecstatic
like
you
said,
but
they
are
fairly
content
and
they
can
trust
and
and
they
can
plan
their
lives,
knowing
that
certain
key
parameters
of
your
life
will
will
be
protected.
I
think
that's
the
reason.
A
All
right,
what
I
want
to
do
now
is
just
go
over
various
aspects
of
finished
life
and
I.
Think
the
American
people
would
be
really
shocked,
and
you
know
and
that's
why
we
do
these
things
to
hear
what
goes
on
in
Finland.
So
I
want
to
start
off
with
all
right.
You
got
a
young
couple.
They're
pregnant
I
want
to
ask.
Maria,
has
a
one-year-old
baby?
Yes,
so
this
is
for
her,
not
an
abstract
idea.
Yeah
grab
them
like
that.
What
kind
of
benefits
Maria
were
you
able
to?
C
C
A
C
A
A
A
You
have
in
the
United
States
and
Finland
you're
working
in
this
country
about
80
households
are
two
two
breadwinners
in
each
household,
so
Mom
and
Dad
are
both
working
here
in
Vermont,
which
is
about
the
national
average
cost
15
000
bucks
to
have
a
decent
child
care
for
your
kids,
fifteen
thousand
dollars.
That's
average
Maria
has
her
kid
in
Washington
DC,
which
is
very
expensive.
How
much
is
the
cost
you
in
Washington
so.
A
Various
washing
them
may
be
as
high
as
any
place
in
the
country
up
to
35
000
nationally
in
the
country.
Fifteen
thousand
just
think:
you're
an
average
family
you're,
making
sixty
seventy
thousand
dollars
a
year
single
mom,
making
forty
thousand
dollars
a
year.
How
do
you
possibly
afford?
Fifteen
thousand
now
there
are
programs
that
will
help
lower
income
people
to
be
sure,
but
Child
Care
is
a
very
expensive
proposition.
If
you
can
find
quality
child
gift,
there's
a
slot
available
for
you.
People
have
to
wait
for
a
long
time
to
get
decent
child
care.
C
In
Finland,
the
most
of
the
child,
currently
centers
are
municipal.
We
have
some
private
options
available
as
well,
but,
like
most
kids,
goes
go
to
Municipal
child
care
and
the
cost
of
the
child
care
is
based
on
your
income,
so
the
minimum
that
you
spend
is
like
thirty
dollars
per
month
and
the
maximum
is
up
to
like
300
dollars
a
month.
A
3600
a
year
compared
to
on
average,
fifteen
thousand
dollars
a
year,
all
right
now
it
turns
out,
and
we
can
take
some
questions
on
it
later.
It's
a
very
interesting
issue.
Finland
is
often
also
ranked
in
terms
of
its
educational
system
as
number
one
in
the
world
and
it's
a
very
different
system.
It's
unlike
the
Chinese
or
in
Singapore,
where
they
really
put
a
lot
of
pressure
on
the
kids.
Their
approach
is
very
different,
but
before
we
go
there,
I
want
to
talk
about
higher
education,
Mr
Ambassador,
okay,
everybody!
A
B
Well,
it's
pretty
short
story.
There
is
no
Eternal
fees,
so
no
no
fees
for
tuition.
So
it's
it's
free.
You
have
to
pass
the
exam
which
is
based
on
your
skills,
your
abilities.
If
you
pass
it,
then
it's
it's
free!
You
have
to
pay
like
in
helsink
University.
You
have
to
pay
I,
think
200
as
a
payment
for
membership
of
the
Student
Association,
which
then
gives
you
the
access
to
the
student
medical
care
which
has
a
separate
medical
station
and
medical
care.
A
All
right
so
in
our
country,
where
so
many
people
are
struggling,
a
with
student
debt
would
be
even
questioning
whether
they
want
to
go
to
college
and
come
out
with
that
huge
debt,
but
they
have
decided
in
a
competitive
global
economy.
It
makes
sense
for
all
the
kids
who
are
able
and
want
to
get
a
higher
education
to
be
able
to
do
so
tuition
free.
B
Well,
of
course,
I
mean
we
all
do
realize
that
modern
economy
also
needs
working
hands
with
skills.
So
that's
why
we
put
a
lot
of
emphasis
on
vocational
training,
so
it's
actually
one
of
the
basic
routes
of
school.
So
when
you
are
16,
you
can
actually
choose
a
vocational
school
which
takes
two
or
three
years
but
I
think
for
us.
The
main
point
is
that
you
need
to
have
a
good
basic
level
of
Education.
Why?
B
Because
the
demands
of
the
work
life
economy
will
change,
so
you
have
to
be
able
to
retrain
for
different
professions
during
your
work
life
time.
So
we
try
to
keep
everybody
a
good
basic
level
education.
Then
they
can
choose
more
academics,
kind
of
a
path
or
vocational
training.
It
depends
on
what
they
want
to
do
and
but
it's
it's
all
I
mean
vocational
training.
You
get
the
same
same
benefits,
so
it's
not!
It's
not
separate
in
terms
of
how
you're
being
treated
it's
the
same
same
system,
all.
A
Right
I
want
to
skip
to
an
issue
dear
to
my
heart,
and
that
is
the
health
care
issue
as
I
think.
All
of
you
know
we
spend
about.
If
you
can
believe
this.
It's
really
quite
incredible.
Anybody
have
any
idea
here
how
much
we
spend
per
person
on
Healthcare
What's,
the
guess,
What's,
the
guess
per
person
for
every
woman,
a
child
in
America.
What's
your
guess.
D
A
A
There
are
many
families
who
don't
make
forty
eight
thousand.
Now,
obviously
you
know
we
have
a
very
complicated
system.
We
have
Medicaid,
we
got
Medicare,
we
have
Veterans
Administration,
you
got
a
bomb
Obamacare
and
most
people
get
that
cat
through
their
jobs.
Okay,
so
it's
a
complicated
system,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day
we
spend
more
than
twice
as
much
per
capita
as
they
spend
in
Finland
or
in
Canada,
and
yet
somehow
they
managed
to
provide
quality.
The
care
in
your
country
is
pretty
high.
A
Yes,
one
of
the
highest
quality
Care
Systems
in
the
world
for
half
the
price
and
it's
a
much
simpler,
less
bureaucratic,
less
aggravating
system
than
we
have,
but
all
right
so
tell
us
Mr
Ambassador
somebody
becomes
ill.
They
end
up
in
the
hospital
for
two
weeks.
What's
the
story
there
in
terms
of
drugs
and
health
care
costs?
What
do
they
end
up?
Paying.
B
I
hope
the
story
ends
positively
Parts
up
in
terms
of
economy.
It's
also
pretty
simple,
because
you
have
to
pay
as
your
contribution
a
small
fraction
of
the
real
real
cost,
which
means
that,
usually,
after
up
a
couple
of
weeks
in
hospital,
we
are
talking
about
a
few
hundreds
of
dollars,
not
thousands.
A
A
Pardon
me
one
million
yeah,
I
I
A
friend
of
mine,
a
colleague
of
mine
in
the
Senate,
told
me
that
her
niece
had
a
back
operation,
wasn't
even
a
life-saving
operation.
It
was
serious,
not
life-saving.
It's
about
the
million
dollars
all
right.
No,
she
didn't
have
to
pay
the
million
because
you
know,
but
we
got
something
like
500
000
people
in
this
country
go
bankrupt
because
of
medically
related
bills.
So
I
want
you
all
to
think
about
it.
A
Somebody
has
cancer,
they
have
some
terrible
disease,
they're
struggling
with
this
disease
and
then,
when
they
got
out
of
the
hospital
they
got
to
figure
out
how
they
can
pay
some
huge
amount
of
money.
If
they
don't
have
good
insurance
and
then
their
credit
is
destroyed,
they've
got
to
declare
bankruptcy,
so
you
go
bankrupt
because
you
are
sick.
Does
anything
that
make
any
sense
to
anybody.
I
mean
it
is
a
horror,
show
all
right.
A
The
system
is
very
different
in
Finland
and
I
think
they
do.
The
right
thing.
I
want
to
ask
the
Ambassador
a
few
more
questions,
and
then
we
can
will
be
the
obvious
question.
Some
of
you
may
be
thinking.
Well,
hey,
free
healthcare,
that's
good!
A
free
education,
that's
good!
How
much
am
I
paying
in
taxes
do
I
have
anything
left
after
I
get
paid?
What
is
the
tax
system
in
in
and
how
much
do
people
pay
for
these
Services?
Well,.
B
That
system
is
Progressive,
so
it
depends
on
your
earned
income.
The
more
you
earn
more,
you
pay
personally
I,
don't
know
what's
Maria
Pace
or
anyone
else,
but
there's
a
private
information
but
I'm
open
for
transparency,
so
my
tax
rate
is
and
I'm
a
high
income
person
by
Phoenix
standards.
My
tax
rate
is
33
percent
of
the
income.
Then
I
have
a
so-called
Conifer
maximum
rate.
A
Okay,
so
you
know
it's
high,
it's
high,
but
you
know
I,
don't
know
how
much
higher
it
is
than
in
the
United
States
and
what
they
get
for
that
is.
They
don't
have
to
pay
Private
health
insurance.
They
don't
have
to
pay
for
the
kinds
of
costs
that
we
have
in
terms
of
child
care.
They
don't
have
to
worry
about
how
they're
going
to
send
their
kids
to
college,
among
many
other
things
all
right.
A
Here's
an
interesting
issue,
I
have
been
long
concerned
about
how
Corporate
media
functions
in
this
country
and
the
kind
of
built-in
conflict
of
interest
between
billionaires
who
own
the
media
and
what
media
reports
and
in
Finland.
Interestingly
enough,
tackling
that
problem
and
I
want
the
ambassador
to
speak
to
it.
But,
as
many
of
you
know,
in
the
United
States
and
here
in
Burlington,
even
used
to
be
the
Free
Press
or
whatever
you
might
say
about
it,
they
were
a
major
paper.
A
They
are
now
a
a
skeleton
compared
to
what
they
used
to
be
and
what's
happened
is
Gannett
and
all
these
other
big
change
have
downsized.
They
can't
make
enough
money
now
in
papers
because
of
the
internet.
Okay,
so
you
have
many
hundreds
of
communities,
All
Over
America,
who
have
no
daily
newspapers
at
all.
It's
a
very
serious
problem
talk
a
little
bit
about
how
the
public,
how
Finland
handles
media
other
than
just
private
media.
What
do
you
guys
do
there?
Well.
B
First
of
all,
we
have
freedom
of
expression,
it's
a
constitutional
right,
so
we
share
the
same
principles
of
free
and
open
media.
Most
of
the
media
is,
is
private,
it's
commercial,
but
then
we
also
have
I
would
call
it
in
front
of
this
audience.
I
finished
BBC.
If
you
know
the
British
model,
so
we
have
publicly
funded
National,
Broadcasting,
Company,
I
think
they
they,
of
course
they
are
not
partisan.
They
are
not
allowed
to
be
they.
B
Of
course,
it's
a
we
always
there
has
to
be
a
balance
and,
of
course,
the
private
media,
commercial
media
is
really
important
and
that's
the
most.
The
biggest
chunk
of
the
Finnish
media
Market
is
private,
then
I
will
just
add
on
on
how
to
deal
with
the
information.
We
have
focused
quite
a
lot
already
for
a
couple
of
years
and
even
longer
how
to
teach
our
kids
so-called
media
literacy.
B
So
they
can
actually
understand
how
the
me,
how
media,
how
the
media
Works,
how
the
news
are
being
made,
what
are
the
criteria,
and
they
are
also
trained
to
see
and
understand
different
agendas
so
that
they
are
critical
towards
whatever
media
they
use,
whatever
news
they
get
so
that
they
understand
this
aspect.
Of
course,
the
idea
is
to
give
them
a
so-called
vaccination
against
a
propaganda,
this
information,
so
that
they
can
critically
treat
information
wherever
they
get
it
from.
A
A
B
Political
system
is,
we
are
a
parliamentary
democracy,
so
the
president,
we
have
a
president
too.
He
mainly
focuses
on
foreign
policy
and
and
defense
issues,
so
he
doesn't
have
so
extensive
mandate
across
the
board
of
national
policies
like
in
the
U.S,
so
the
main
sort
of
governing
bodies,
the
government
and-
and
they
always
have
to
have
a
maturity
in
the
parliament.
So
Parliament
is
the
real
source
of
also
the
government's
power.
So
all
the
laws
obviously
have
to
be
passed
with
the
maturity.
B
In
our
case,
we
have
nine
parties
in
the
parliament
and
basically
I
mean
I-
might
get
in
trouble
in
the
finished
media
if
I
say
so,
but
basically
all
of
them
I,
don't
name
them
all
of
them,
except
for
one
perhaps
might
qualify
us
as
some
fraction
of
the
U.S
Democratic
Party,
one
of
them
I
guess
could
be
considered
according
to
U.S
kind
of
a
political
style.
They
could
perhaps
be
Republicans.
B
B
So
it
means
that
they
have
to
negotiate.
They
always
have
to
find
Partners
the
other
parties
and
they
have
to
form
the
government
so
that
they
can
together
a
must
sufficient
number
of
votes
in
the
parliament
which
has
200
seats,
so
I
think
the
culture
in
our
case
is
that
you
have
to
negotiate.
You
have
to
govern
together
and
also
because
you
know
that
you
might
end
up
in
the
government
with
that
party.
B
You
may
even
dislike
that
body,
but
since
you
have
to
be
ready
to
govern
together,
I
think
it
kind
of
moderates
a
bit
the
way
how
policies
are
being
conducted
and
how
the
politics
is
being
made.
So
that's
the
system
elections
we
have
every
four
years
you
have
every
other
year,
so
it's
it's
it's
every
four
years
and
when
the
whole
Parliament
is,
is
being
elected.
B
Obviously
There,
Are
Rules,
how
the
finance
the
the
parties,
how
to
finance
the
candidates
I
think
I'm,
not
gonna,
give
any
political
assessment
on
the
U.S
elections
or
U.S
political
system
as
an
ambassador
I'm
not
allowed
to
even
do
that.
But
I
just
say
that
in
our
case
it
is
different
and
I
think
we
are
really
critical
towards
the
role
of
this
financial
contributions
to
campaigns.
So
we
have
limitations.
It's
a
lot
of
public
scrutiny
over
that
financing.
So.
B
No,
it
can't
be
really
unlimited,
it
would
be,
and
basically
I
also
think,
that's
a
politically.
Let's
put
it
this
way
if
I
would
be
a
candidate
and
I
would
find
a
nice
millionaire
who
would
like
to
totally
finance
my
campaign
like
give
millions
or
hundreds
of
thousands
that
would
politically
be
a
case
of
death.
For
me,
it's
kind
of
far
because
the
it
would
be
known
and
I
I
think
my
political
career
would
be
over
before
I
started.
A
B
B
Of
course
it's
a
difficult,
difficult
task
in
Finland,
because
because
of
the
climate,
we
have
to
heat
our
homes
and
actually
that
takes
a
lot
of
energy,
then,
as
a
kind
of
a
counterbalance,
we
are
lucky
to
have
more
forests
than
any
other
nation
in
Europe
76
of
the
forest.
And
of
course,
as
you
know,
forests
are
also
carbon
sinks,
so
it
kind
of
compensates
our
emissions.
B
So
that's
why
we
do
believe,
and
actually
we
now
have
basically
50
more
of
a
forests
or
trees
in
our
forests
than
we
had
50
years
ago.
So,
by
having
a
sustainable
Forest
management
techniques,
we've
been
able
to
grow
the
wood
Mass,
that's
growing
in
the
forest,
which
means
that
frankly,
we
can
also.
We
can
compensate
the
emissions
that
we
have
right
now.
We
are
heavily
trying
to
kind
of
increase
the
number
of
electric
cars
and
I
think
in
our
case.
B
B
So
so
many
many
municipalities
that
use
coal.
They
are
already
getting
rid
of
that.
Replacing
that
with
something
else,
and
then
we
have
wind,
wind
power
is
increasing
fast.
We
are
really
putting
a
lot
of
new
capacity
and
wind
power.
Construction
in
Finland
is
commercially
viable,
so
they
don't
get
any
subsidies
at
all,
so
they
they.
It
has
to
be
self
self
financing
and
self.
It
has
to
be
commercially
and
actually
that
at
the
moment
it's
the
cheapest
way
of
getting
new
energy.
B
The
problem
with
the
Wind,
of
course,
in
our
case,
is
that,
since
it
doesn't
wind
always
so,
the
energy
grid
gets
unstable
unless
you
have
nuclear
and
some
other
sources
in
Finland
also
I
just
want
to
add.
I
know
that
Vermont
is
is
at
slightly
atypical
case
in
the
US,
because
you
have
a
lot
of
energy
produced
from
wood
materials
like
so
shortest
residue
that
you
get
from
the
forestry
industry.
That's
the
same
case
for
Finland.
B
So
we
get
a
lot
of
biofuels
from
our
forests,
but
still
I
want
to
say
that
we
use
biofuels
sustainably,
which
means
that,
like
I
said,
we
try
to
make
sure
that
we
have
sufficient
numbers
of
forests
all
the
time
growing,
so
that
we
don't
end
up
in
a
situation
in
which
many
European
countries
ended
up
already
hundreds
of
years
ago.
They
don't
have
any
Forest,
because
they
they
cut
all
the
trees.
So
we
can't
afford
that
we
have
to
maintain
our
forest.
A
Okay,
the
last
question
I
wanted
to
raise
is,
is
that
Finland
has
an
800
mile
border
with
Russia,
so
obviously,
what's
going
on
in
Ukraine
and
Russia's
aggressiveness
is
of
concern
to
The
Finnish
people.
The
ambassador
before
he
came
to
the
United
States
was
the
Finnish
ambassador
to
Moscow.
So
he
knows
a
little
bit
about
Russia.
Why
don't
you
talk
a
little
bit
about
your
assessment
of
the
Ukrainian
situation.
B
Well,
my
first
kind
of
take
away
from
that
situation
is
that
it's
going
to
last
a
long
time.
Why
I
think
the
key
reason
is
that
for
present,
Putin
Ukraine
is
actually
the
only
item
on
his
political
agenda.
Right
now
he
doesn't
seem
to
have
any
other
meaningful
policies.
It's
everything
is
about
Ukraine.
B
He
has
an
idea
that
which
comes
from
the
Russian
imperial
past-
that
for
some
mystical
reasons
they
have
a
right
to
govern
another
country,
another
people
that
he
even
denies
the
existence
of
Ukrainian
people,
so
I
think
it's
when
you
have
this
kind
of
a
really
deep
ideological
grounds
for
the
conflict,
and
you
have
a
population
which
is
largely
accepting
aggression,
I.
Think
it's
going
to
be
the
long-term
thing
for
the
ukrainians.
B
I
think
it's
easy
for
us
to
understand,
because
we've
been
having
a
number
of
wars
in
the
past
with
the
Russians
ukrainians
are
fighting
for
their
own
Homeland.
They
absolutely
have
nowhere
to
go
if
they
lose
it.
It's
very
hard,
sometimes
for
Americans
to
understand
what
it
means
when
your
own
home
territory
is
under
track,
because
you
guys
don't
you
don't
have
to
worry
about
the
Canadians
coming
across
the
border
like
like
I.
B
Don't
think
nobody
loses
sleep
over
that
at
least
a
healthy
person,
so
I
I
think
that's
the
major
difference
and,
like
the
senator
said,
I
know
that
you
are
admiring
the
the
social
Healthcare
Systems
in
the
Nordic
countries,
but
I
just
want
to
add
that
it's
it's
really
for
us.
It
doesn't
work
without
the
military
security
because
we
are
living
in
a
rough
neighborhood.
That's
the
reason
why
we
are.
B
We
actually
make
all
the
NATO
numbers
we
spend
heavily
on
the
military,
not
because
we
want
to
spend,
but
simply
because
we
have
to
spend
in
order
to
stay
safe,
to
build
a
kind
of
society
that
the
things
want
to
build.
A
reason
why
we
are
also
seeking
membership
with
NATO
is
that
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
are
not
alone
and
I.
Think
we
believe
that
by
joining
NATO
we
can
increase
not
only
our
own
Safety
and
Security,
but
also
the
security
of
the
alliance
and
and
not
many
people,
know
that.
B
B
B
The
second
piece
of
paper
I,
took
out
I,
had
been
away
for
a
couple
of
months
was
the
the
letter
from
the
mobilization
office
that
why
haven't
you
confirmed
your
attendance
in
the
in
the
reserve
training?
Then
the
next
day,
I
wrote
to
the
mobilization
office
that
hey
I'm
supposed
to
be
the
new
Phoenix
and
pastor
of
the
U.S
first
of
September.
So
it's
kind
of
hard
for
me
to
in
the
in
the
middle
of
the
pandemic,
to
fly
back
and
forth
to
be
training
with
you,
4th
of
September.
B
So
could
I
get
accepted
and
I
I
included
in
the
mail.
My
military
staff
in
Moscow
I
was
still
technically
yeah,
Moscow
and
and
then
I
waited
that
this
will
do
the
trick
next
day
comes
a
reply
from
the
mobilization
office.
Saying
that
how
can
you
documentally
prove
that
you
are
a
new
ambassador
to
the
U.S?
B
Then
I
I
started
to
think
that
to
me,
there's
how
many
fake
ambassadors
other
trying
to
get
accepted,
but
basically
I
I
got
accepted
and
this
time
next
time
you
you
are
not.
So
this
is
the
but
there's
a
reason.
It's
not
that
we
are
militaristic
or
anything
like
that,
but
we
simply
have
to
make
sure
that
we
can
build
our
society
free
of
outside
aggression
and
and
influence.
A
D
Reason
why
you
do
so
well
in
your
country
is
because
it's
so
small
and
I
thought
you
know,
I,
look
on
the
map
and
I
see
the
size.
Can
I
go
through
States
map,
highest
state
and
say
hey?
Why
can't
we
adopt
national?
You
know
Health
Care
system
and
daycare
good
there
and
then
it'll
be
bringing
up
one
state,
and
then
we
can
point.
A
No
I
think
that's
an
excellent
point.
You
know
sometimes
people
say
well,
they
got
five
and
a
half
million.
We
have
330
million,
while
you're
comparing
it's
apples
to
oranges
but
you're.
Quite
right,
many
of
our
programs
are
developed
and
shaped
by
States
themselves.
So
we've
got
states
to
swap
the
same
size
as
Finland
we're
smaller.
Can
we
learn
something
and
adopt
those
ideas?
Absolutely
I
mean
that
they
spend
less
than
half
as
much
as
we
do
on
Health
Care.
Is
that
something
that
we
can
learn
from
I?
Think
so?
A
F
Right,
Into
Climate,
knowing
that
Finland
has
taken
such
aggressive,
aggressive
action
as
of
late
and
that
Biden
did
recently
pass
our
own
climate
bill.
I
was
wondering
if
we
had
any
more
legislation
coming
through,
because
the
aggression
that
we
took
was
not
as
strict
as
what
Finland
did,
knowing
that
the
US
is
a
much
larger
country
and
has
many
more
companies
and
things
like
that.
So
what's
the
plan.
A
A
What
complicates
the
issue
is
that
this
is
a
global
problem.
China
is
a
bigger
emitter
of
carbon
than
we
are,
and
one
of
the
many
disturbing
aspects
of
the
war
in
Ukraine
is
that
Russia
now
is
isolated
and
Russia
is
going
to
have
to
play
a
role
in
Transforming,
Our,
Energy
System.
So
to
answer
your
question,
we
made
a
start
by
putting
a
lot
of
money
into
sustainable
energy
into
electric
vehicles
and
so
forth,
but
we've
got
a
long
long
way
to
go.
G
Mentioned
that
that
you
really
like
35
or
so
percent
of
your
energy
on
nuclear
power,
which
makes
some
of
us
kind
of
cringe
but
I,
wanted
to
ask
about
the
standards
of
disposal
from
the
nuclear
power
and
how
you
run
those
power
plants,
because
you
know
we,
as
most
of
us
here,
remember
Chernobyl
and
then
like
earthquake
in
Japan.
What
it
did
to
the
nuclear
power
plant.
There
great.
B
So
we,
like
I,
said
we
use
a
lot
of
nuclear
I.
Think
it's
to
be
honest.
It's
the
only
choice
we
have
because
in
our
case
we
don't
have
so
much
Hydro
as
the
sweets
and
Norwegians.
Why?
Because
it's
a
flat
land
mostly
so
there
are
not
no
no
rivers
of
that
size
and
of
that
sort
of
magnitude.
So
we
have
to
cover
that
with
nuclear.
The
other
choice
would
be
some
fossil
fuels
with
emissions.
B
B
Basically,
Finland
is
is
sort
of
a
free
of
seismic
activity,
so
the
risks
of
anything
leaking
out
out
of
touch
deep
tunnel
is
is
totally
theoretical
and
it's
it's
totally
much
better
than
how
do
you
deal
with
the
waste
in
most
places
where
the
waste
can
be
even
sort
of
waiting
outside
waiting
to
get
get
treatment,
and
so
on
so
I
think
for
us.
The
clear
point
is
that
we
need
to
have
as
credible
as
science
and
any
any
practical
consideration
can
give
a
a
solution
for
the.
B
H
Yes,
I'd
like
to
understand
a
little
more
about
your
tax
system,
as
in
like
corporate
tax
rates.
How
do
you
tax
corporations,
if
you
do
what's
the
maximum
personal
tax
rate,
you
graciously
shared
your
33
percent
and
our
citizens
filing
tax
returns
and
getting
big
tax
breaks
or
dodging
taxes
in
some
other
way?
Because
that's
you
know
we
we
all
know
in
America
that
our
our
very
rich
don't
pay
their
share.
How
do
you
solve
that
problem.
B
Well,
I
think
you
know
to
really
fully
respond
to
your
good
question.
I
think
I
would
need
to
find
a
tax
accountant
or
consultant
in
Finland.
Of
course
you
have
all
these
details,
I
think.
If
you
go
into
the
really
high
income
brackets,
then
the
tax
rate
I
think
these
days.
If
you
really
earn
in
several
hundreds
of
of
thousands
or
Millions,
then
the
tax
rate
is
is
somewhere,
I
mean
roughly
half
I
mean
even
even
sometimes
Beyond.
Historically
speaking,
this
is
not
much
in
many
of
the
European
countries.
B
B
I
A
A
A
A
Do
you
know
that
you
in
real
inflation-adjusted
dollars,
you're
earning
less
than
somebody
50
years
ago?
Did
you
know
that
anyone
know
that?
In
other
words,
can
you
think
when
I
was
mayor
here
in
Burlington,
when
I
took
office
we
didn't
have
a
computer
in
the
building?
We
didn't
have
one
printer
think
about
how
the
world
has
changed
since
the
early
1980s,
so
that
all
of
us
upon
more
productive
than
we
used
to
be
and
people
are
earning
Less
in
real
inflation-adjusted
dollars
than
they
did
50
years
ago.
A
So
if
you
know
what
that
worker
there
or
you're
that
worker,
who
has
seen
his
or
her
job
go
to
China
or
to
Mexico,
if
you're,
one
of
the
60
of
Americans
today
who
are
living
paycheck
the
paycheck,
while
three
people
owe
more
wealth
in
the
bottom
half
of
America,
do
they
get
enough
Faith.
The
government
gives
a
damn
about
you.
You
know,
and
you
know
what
you're
right
all
right.
It's
a
corrupt
political
system
and
it's
a
rigged
economic
system.
That's
what
it
is.
Rich
get
richer,
working
people
struggle,
billionaires,
buy
and
sell
politicians.
A
So
why
should
anybody
have
faith
in
that
system
and
I
think
people
have
become
so
demoralized
and
this
is
what
has
happened
historically?
Is
they
look
to
a
strong
person?
They
looked
at
somebody.
Who's.
I
know
what
the
problem
is
in
your
country.
It's
immigrants,
it's
black
people,
it's
gay
people,
it's
Muslims!
You
name
the
person
and
you
just
divide
up
the
population
and
you
come
into
power.
That
is
what
we're
struggling
with
right.
A
This
very
minute,
I'm,
going
to
be
running
all
over
the
country
next
week,
trying
to
deal
with
the
system
all
right
to
try
to
save
American
democracy,
so
the
demoralization
is
very
deep.
It
has
a
lot
to
do
with
people
who
are
living
in
despair
are
going
nowhere
in
a
hurry,
and
they
don't
quite
know
why
they're
working
upon
and
their
kids
are
in
worse
shape
economically
than
they
are.
They
can't
retire
with
dignity.
A
Half
the
people,
elderly
people
in
this
country
have
income
for
25,
000
or
less
most
older
workers
have
nothing
in
the
bank.
So
how
would
you
feel
about
how
the
government
is
working
with
you?
Not
very
well,
so
you
know
you
know
you're
looking
at
somebody
who
works
with
other
people
trying
to
build
a
movement
which
brings
people
together
around
an
agenda
that
works
for
all,
and
the
good
news
is
that
most
Americans
would
be
supportive
of
a
system
like
Finland
or
Healthcare.
A
Most
Americans
think
that
public
education
release
community
colleges
should
be
tuition
free,
most
Americans,
think
billionaires
should
stop
paying
their
fair
share
of
taxes.
Most
Americans
know
that
our
child
care
system
is
dysfunctional.
More
and
more
Americans
understand
that
we've
got
to
be
bold
about
climate
change.
Most
Americans
know
that
women
have
a
right
to
control
their
own
bodies,
etc,
etc.
So,
on
all
of
those
issues,
there
is
a
coming
together,
but
then
you
have
to
ask
yourself
why
we
don't
even
talk
about
those
issues.
A
Why
not?
Do
you
think
it's
a
good
political
issue,
because
politicians
don't
want
to
antagonize
the
billionaires
who
contribute
to
their
parties?
Do
you
know
how
much
that
spending
in
this
election
hundreds
and
hundreds
and
hundreds
of
millions
of
dollars
luck
with
the
answer
coming
on
television?
Where
do
you
think
that
money
comes
from
I
know
where
it
comes
from
all
right?
J
B
B
I
think
we
are
not.
We
are
somewhere
in
the
average
of
the
like.
We
used
to
call
them
oecd
countries,
the
Western,
developed,
industrialized
countries,
I
think
I
I
don't
have
comparative
figures
with
the
US.
So
it's
very
hard
for
me
to
say
where
we
stand
with
the
U.S
figures
on
the
drug
use.
That's
so
that's
that's
a
problem.
Definitely
again!
B
B
B
Percent,
so
we
are
down
to
like
roughly
four
or
five
thousand
people
which
are
homeless,
I.
Think
the
key
to
that
progress
was
the
understanding
Services
made
in
the
90s
they
need
to
understand.
The
top
apartment
or
a
place
to
live,
cannot
be
a
kind
of
a
reward
for
a
person
who
can
prove
that
they
can
work
they
can.
They
can
hold
a
job,
they
can
kind
of
believe,
more
or
less
stable
life,
because
the
problem
is
that
if
they
don't
have
place
to
live,
you
can't
fix
all
those
other
problems.
B
So
you
have
to
start
from
giving
them
a
place
to
live.
Then
you
can
actually
from
that
starting
point.
You
can
actually
start
fixing
all
the
other
problems
like
addictions,
Etc,
health
problems
and
economic
problems.
So
I
think
that's
been
one
of
the
great
successes
we've
had
on
the
homelessness
front,
but
that
has
required
a
lot
of
learning
and
also
lots
of
work
from
our
social
services.
But
but
it's
it's
been.
It's
been
a
success.
K
A
Well,
I
I
think
look
here
is
just
a
few
basic
principles
that
I
operate
under,
which
I
think
are
true
number
one:
real
change.
Structural
changes
in
society
never
take
place
from
the
top
on
down.
Okay,
it's
not
like
somebody
signs
a
bill
in
Washington
when
that
person
saw
president
signs
a
bill.
It's
because
millions
of
people
down
below
have
demanded
that
bill.
Okay
and
I
would
give
you.
We
talked
a
little
bit
about
climate.
A
You
know
who
has
led
the
effort
in
this
country
and
around
the
world
in
raising
Consciousness
and
making
demands
on
government
with
regard
to
climate.
There's
been
young
people
for
the
right
reason
you
want
to
be
living
in
a
planet
that
is
healthy.
Inhabitable
have
children
that
can
grow
up
in
that
planet.
Young
people,
you
know
you
could
argue
very
definitely
that
the
bill
that
we
passed,
which
went
nowhere
far
enough,
would
not
have
happened
without
the
mobilization
of
millions
of
young
people
in
this
country
and
around
the
world.
A
A
And
it
is
not
an
accident
that
a
country
which
is
80
percent
public
and
private
unions
has
the
kind
of
policies
they
have.
There
has
been
a
concerted
effort
for
decades
now
on
the
part
of
corporate
America
and
their
right-wing
allies
to
break
unions,
to
make
it
harder
for
workers
to
organize
unions
right
now,
right
now,
literally
I'm
I
just
signed
a
letter
yesterday,
demanding
that
Starbucks
I
start
negotiating
and
and
and
a
contract
with
the
you
know,
thousands
of
workers
who
have
voted
to
organize
but
they're
going
to
resist
it.
A
So
there
is
power
in
organizing
and
bringing
people
together.
You
with
me,
so
you
know.
If
you
want
universities
to
de-invest
from
fossil
fuel,
you
have
the
power
to
do
that.
If
you
think
that
Health
Care
is
a
human
right,
you
have
the
power
and
it
is
more
than
just
voting.
Voting
is
very
important,
but
it
is
not
just
voting.
It
is
running
for
office
yourself.
A
I
know.
You
know
one
of
the
things
that
the
Progressive
Movement
has
been
successful
about
right
now,
I'm
going
to
be
in
Texas,
I
know
next
week
with
a
guy
who,
in
his
early
30s
Greg
kazal
out
in
Austin,
Texas
and
and
who
has
been
an
organizer,
ran
for
office
and
is
now
going
to
be
a
United
States
Congressman
all
right
and
we
are
seeing
young
people
all
over
this
country
running
for
school
board.
You
could
do
it
running
for
city
council,
you
could
do
it
running
for
State
Legislature.
Getting
the
experience
running.
A
You
know
for
congress
running
for
president.
You
know
do
whatever
you
want,
but
getting
involved
and
the
main
thing
is
I
know
a
lot
of
your
friends.
Think
you
know
the
politics
is.
Why
do
you
want
to
get
involved?
Why
do
you
come
to
a
meeting
like
this
and
you
got
to
tell
them?
You
really
do
then.
If
they're
worried
about
student
debt,
if
they're
worried
about
climate
they're
worried
about
women's
rights
or
gay
rights,
you
know
what,
if
you're,
not
involved
in
politics,
you're,
not
really
addressing
those
issues
in
one
way
or
another.
A
L
But
we
talk
about
it
like
it's
a
thing
of
the
past
and
so
we're
working
with
great
people
in
Montpelier
who
say
they
want
to
end
this
practice
and
I
hope
we
can
but
I'm
curious
for
the
the
gentleman
from
Finland.
If
you
could
tell
me
if
there
is
a
concept
of
eugenics
in
Finland
and
then
for
Senator
Sanders
I'd
like
to
ask
if
you
think
that
there's
a
way
that
we
could
go
a
little
bit
higher
and
even
try
to
end
Eugenics
on
a
federal
level,
maybe
with
Federal
legislation,.
B
B
A
A
M
M
M
So
what's
the
law
or
rules
in
Finland
and
second
question
is:
if
someone
like
a
president
or
no
kind
of
top,
make
some
some
criminals
what's
the
consequences,
because
here
it
is
country
our
ex,
like
President
I,
had
some
criminal,
but
nothing
happened,
and
we
are
shocked
actually
so
I'm
wondering
that
you
as
a
Finnish
person,
how
you
basically
approach
to
these
problems.
Thank
you.
Yeah.
B
Well,
first
of
all,
if
I
got
it
correctly,
the
first
question
concerns
the
upper
yeah,
so,
firstly
the
person
it's
a
legal
according
to
certain
medical
limits,
and
it's
been
so
I
think
since
the
70s
early
70s-
and
there
is
no
discussion
in
Finland,
there
is
no
strong
opposition
to
that.
No,
no!
It's!
Obviously
you
have
all
the
different
possible
views
represented
in
our
society,
but,
as
I
said,
it's
it's
a
it's
a
it's
a
government
law,
it's
a
law
of
the
land
and
I.
B
Don't
I
haven't
heard
of
any
major
discussion
on
that
topic
for
many
many
years
so
I
think
it's.
The
majority
of
the
society
considers
that
that
is
settled
then
I
think
the
the
criminal
criminality
and
politics
obviously
I'm
not
taking
any
stance
towards
what
the
U.S
what's
happening
here
and
so
on.
I'm,
not
commenting
that
side,
in
our
case
the
criminal
law
and
the
sort
of
system
of
prisons
and
all
that
stuff
I
think
for
us.
B
Then
you
are,
you
have
done
your
your
sort
of
Duty,
then
you
should
be
able
to
go
back
to
the
society
and
and
and
and
live
your
life
normally.
So
we
are
putting
a
lot
of
resources
also
on
on
how
to
actually
train
those
prisoners,
how
to
make
sure
that
when
they
go
back
to
the
society
that
then
they
are,
they
have
more
tools
to
actually
succeed
and
then
get
along
in
that
that
life.
B
Of
course,
if
you
don't
do
that,
there's
a
high
risk
that
these
people
will
be
commit
new
crimes
and
they'll
they'll
come
back.
We
do
not
succeed
all
the
time.
Of
course
you
have
people
who
are
you
can't
really
get
rid
of
those
crimes,
but
but
I
think
we
that's
the
intention
of
the
system,
and
quite
often
it
succeeds.
You.
A
Know
on
that
you
know,
Finland
is
different
than
Sweden,
although
they
have
a
lot
of
commonalities.
A
number
of
years
ago,
I
was
at
a
conference
in
Sweden,
Stockholm
and
I
wanted
to
visit
their
jails.
I
wanted
to
see
what
their
jails
look
like,
because
my
wife
said
just
her:
husband
wants
to
go
to
a
jail,
the
other
people
have
gone,
fancy,
places
and
I'm
going
to
a
jail.
A
We
went
to
a
Maximum,
Security,
Prison,
okay,
and
what
blew
me
away
was
you
know
in
the
United
States
when
you're
in
jail
maximum
security,
they
serve
you
cafeteria
people
come
down,
they
eat
they.
What
they
were
doing
in
Sweden
is
they
give
workers
a
certain
amount
of
money
workers
inmates
a
certain
amount
of
money
to
buy
the
food
themselves?
They
sell
it
in
the
jail
they
choose,
what
they
want
and
they
cook
it
up
themselves.
A
A
Their
philosophy
is
very
different
in
this
country
admitted
or
not,
although
Vermont
by
the
way
I
can
tell
you
proudly
does
better
than
most
States,
but
in
many
states
it's
really
a
punishment
that
you
committed
a
crime,
we're
gonna
get
even
with
you
we're
going
to
make
your
life
miserable
for
as
long
as
we
can
and
you
break
people
you
talk,
I
mean
you,
you
put
them
in
solitary,
you
keep
them
in
jail
for
long
periods
of
time
and
then
when
they
got
out
of
jail.
It's
a
prize
surprise.
A
They
are
embedded,
they
don't
have
the
skills
they
need.
They
don't
have
the
education,
they
need
they're,
not
the
mental
health
they
need,
and
then
they
come
back
a
great
expense
to
you.
50
000
bucks
a
shot
to
keep
somebody
in
jail,
so
their
philosophy
is
okay.
Somebody
committed
a
crime.
How
do
we
reintegrate
them
into
society?
Have
you
given
the
education?
They
need
the
job
training
they
need.
Do
they
succeed
all
the
time?
No,
but
their
rate
of
recidivism
is
a
lot
less
than
ours
is,
but
that's
that's.
The
distinction.
B
N
I
think
you
already
answered
one
question:
I
had
I
have
two
climate
questions.
One
is:
is
you
have
nuclear
power
plants
and
as
I
understand
it
there
on
seismically
stable
areas?
So
you
don't
have
the
Fukushima
problem
and
the
other
question
I
had
is,
is
you're
doing
great
stuff
to
reduce
your
carbon
emissions.
But
what
is
happening
to
your
snowpack
and
your
glaciation.
B
O
Okay,
thank
you
for
coming,
so
my
question
is:
around
Vermont
has
the
highest
past
month
of
drug
use
in
the
country,
and
we
also
had
the
highest
overdose
death
rate
in
the
country
and
that's
in
contrast
to
our
approach
to
covid,
in
which
we
did
very
well,
and
we
had
a
very
low
covet
death
rate,
and
so
when
we
look
at
our
response
to
infectious
disease,
we're
pretty
good
at
prevention.
But
when
we
look
at
drug
misuse,
which
is
a
big
problem,
we
are
just
beginning
to
spend
more
money
on
treatment.
O
But,
as
they
say
in
Iceland,
treatment
is
the
least
effective,
most
expensive
way
to
deal
with
the
drug.
You
know
misuse
epidemic
in
a
society,
and
so
my
question
is
around
sort
of
how
do
you
control
the
corporate
determinants
of
Health,
which
are
really
ill
health
which
are
really
encouraging
addiction
and
which
are
fighting
our
efforts
to
to
implement
pla
science-based
prevention
methods
which
have
been
proven
to
be
effective
in
places
like
Iceland?
O
A
I
was
in
Rutland
and
Bennington
and
a
few
other
towns,
and
what
I
kept
hearing
was
an
increase
in
drug
violence,
drug-related
violence
down
in
Bennington
they
used
to
have
nobody
firing
a
gun,
and
this
year
I
think
he
said
there
were
18
instances
of
gunshots
fired.
I,
don't
have
to
tell
you
that
in
Burlington
we're
having
a
serious
problem,
Rutland
is
having
has
had
its
its
problems
before
I.
Give
you
my
thoughts,
which
are
not
profound
on
the
issue,
maybe
Mr
Ambassador,
or
what
do
you
want
to
talk
about?
B
Course
we
try
to
firstly
try
to
educate
people
that
they
know
the
risks
they
try
to
avoid
it.
That's
why
how
we
use
our
school
system
for
our
public
sort
of
educational
system
is
geared
towards
that
and
truck
use
is
illegal
in
Finland,
so
we
have
no
no
legalization
of
any
any
part
of
the
the
drug
use.
So
it's
always
a
crime.
That's
one
thing:
I
think
we
have
a
discussion
on
this
which
has
gone
on
for
a
couple
of
decades.
B
B
I
I,
don't
think
any
industrial
nation
has
been
able
to
really
fully
cope
with
that
crisis,
because
the
price
distribution
effect
and
also
the
the
level
of
overdose
debts
with
these
trucks,
are
it's
so
high,
so
I
think
it's
a
really
big
danger
for
this
result.
I
don't
have
when
nobody
has.
If
I
would
have
an
answer,
how
to
deal
with
that
I
think
everybody
would
be
coming
to
Helsinki
and
trying
to
learn
from
us.
A
E
A
Don't
know
if
you've
met
the
gentleman,
it's
a
new
government
there,
it's
a
progressive
government.
Do
you
know
how
many
households
in
Colombia
are
dependent
on
the
production
of
cocoa
cocoa
or
what
it's
called,
which
becomes
cocaine,
300
000
families
produce
that
drug,
that's
how
they
live,
that's
how
they
make
their
living.
So
what
they're
trying
to
do,
which
is
again
not
easy
and
Columbia
is
just
one
country-
is
to
move
those
people
into
agriculture
which
is
which
is
not
cocoa
related
all
right,
not
easy!
We've
got
to
help
them.
A
Do
that,
so
you've
got
to
get
to
the
source
of
the
problem.
Second
of
all,
as
the
Ambassador
mentioned,
you
know
when
I
was
a
kid
growing
up
the
drug
that
was
a
drug
problem,
but
nowhere
near
what
it
is
today.
Everybody
knew
that
heroin
killed
you.
Everybody
knew
that
and
I
am
not
sure
that
young
people
fully
understand
that
right
now,
I
happen
to
believe
that
marijuana
should,
for
a
variety
of
reasons,
should
be
legalized
and
I.
A
Think
the
president
made
a
a
good
step
forward
by
taking
right
now
your
schedule,
one
of
the
whatever
Substance
Abuse
Act,
of
what
it
is
where
marijuana
is
linked
at
the
same
level
as
Irwin
and
Fentanyl.
Well,
you
may
well
not
like
marijuana,
but
it
is
not
Fentanyl
and
it
truly
is
not
heroin.
So
I
think
taking
it
to
another
level
is
is
quite
right,
so
I
think
prevention
and
sense
of
educating
our
people
is
one
thing
and
number
two.
It's
trying
to
understand.
A
What
does
it
mean
that
in
a
country
it
is
not
just
drugs,
it
is
alcohol,
it
is
tobacco,
it
is
food.
We
have
a
lot
of
addiction
in
this
country
and
it
speaks
to
I
think
a
deterioration
of
community
people
need
that
stuff
to
get
by
if
your
life
is
falling
apart.
You
know
what
you
know
maybe
heroin
is
is
an
answer.
It's
a
killer
ant
that
we
know
I
mean
it's
not
an
answer,
but
what
I
mean
is
I?
A
Can
you
can
understand
why
somebody
turns
to
a
high
if
their
life
is
that
in
that
much
despair?
So
we've
got
to
deal
with
that?
Why
is
there
so
much
despair
in
the
country?
So
it
is
a
very
you
know,
and
then
you've
got
cartels
who
are
almost
major
billion
dollar
military
operations,
all
right
who
are
fighting
governments
throughout
Latin,
America
and
Mexico.
A
A
B
Thanks
the
great
question
and
I
would
say
that
we
are
coping
with
in
increasing
increasing
problem.
It's
been
getting
worse
since
the
pandemic.
I
think
we
know
the
reasons
people
they
have
had
some
economic
hardship,
the
the
isolation
for
many
people
doesn't
work,
so
I
think
we
and
families
are
many.
Families
are
kind
of
are
living
a
more
difficult
situation,
so
there's
some
kind
of
optic
in
those
cases,
especially
it
concerns
the
younger
people.
So
our
system
of
healthcare-
it's
I,
mean
the
mental
health
care.
B
Is
it's
basically,
it's
part
of
the
same
system
that
functions
in
in
every
other
disease
or
or
illnesses
as
well,
but
they
have
a
lot
of
workflow
and
I
think
that
there
is
a
there's,
a
problem
of
of
getting
an
access,
suitable
care
immediately.
Of
course,
if
there's
a
really
difficult
case,
that
a
person
needs
an
instant
care
that
is
being
taken
care
of,
but
if
you
need
an
appointment,
if
you
need
kind
of,
if
your
case
is
a
bit
more
mild,
then
I
think
they're
all
on
cues
to
get
that
treatment.
B
So
there
is
a
problem,
another
problem
of
ours,
so
that
this
discussion
is
also
a
bit
balanced
in
the
sense
that
we
have
troubles
as
well.
Our
main
problem
is
that
we
have
a
lack
of
qualified
Personnel.
Why?
Because
we
have
an
aging
problem
in
the
society,
so
we
have
demographically,
less
payers
of
the
system.
B
Q
Good
evening,
thank
you
for
your
time
Fielding.
So
many
questions
I'd
like
to
talk
about
the
future
I
just
finished
10
years
on
a
local
school
board
and
about
eight
years
ago,
I
read
a
book
called
the
smartest
kids
in
the
world.
The
was
by
a
New
York,
Times
Reporter,
who
highlighted,
among
other
things,
to
finish
educational
system,
and
it
was
really
striking,
but
one
person
in
on
one
school
board
in
the
smallest
state
in
the
country
or
the
second
smallest
state
by
population
of
the
country.
It's
hard
to.
B
Well,
thank
you
obviously,
I'm
not
gonna,
give
you
any
any
advice
on
how
you
should
run
your
country,
but
I.
Think
in
our
case,
the
the
the
key
reason
for
a
success
in
education
system
is
it's
fairly
simple.
First
of
all,
your
teachers
have
to
have
high
qualifications.
In
our
case,
you
need
to
have
Masters,
you
need
to
have
Masters.
B
Secondly,
a
teacher
profession.
You
have
to
have
a
decent
salary.
In
our
case,
it
doesn't
mean
that
they
they
get
rich
or
they
are
kind
of
get
super
high
income,
but
in
most
places,
I
think
that
the
tough
part
is
Helsinki,
which
is
the
housing
costs
are
high,
but
elsewhere
teaching
is
a
good
way
to
a
middle
class,
stable
life
and
fulfilling
professional
life
and
and
and
actually
the
the
salary
is
competitive
in
in
all
all
Finland,
except
for
Helsinki
I
would
say.
B
B
What
the
the
students
need
to
learn
then
they
are
free,
choose
their
own
ways
of
dealing
with
that.
So
we
don't
think
that
teachers
are
just
like
robots,
that
repeat
some
some
sort
of
plan
given
from
above,
but
that
they
are
highly
trained
professionals
that
need
a
degree
of
Liberty
to
do
that.
That's
how
you
actually
also
attract
top
talent,
so
in
our
case
in
those
faculties
that
train
teachers
actually
getting
into
those
faculties
is,
is
really
competitive.
B
So
it's
not
just
a
kind
of
a
leftover
faculty
for
those
who
don't
get
into
other
faculties,
so
it's
actually
best
and
brightest.
Many
of
them
actually,
no
don't
only
go
to
medical
school
or
things
like
that.
But
many
choose
that
profession
so
I
think
the
for
us.
The
keeping
the
the
respect
and
and
decent
pay
level
and
Independence
of
a
teacher
profession
is
is
one
of
the
key
key
factors,
but
then
I
would
add.
Also
this
broader
societal
things
like
in
our
case.
B
Our
social
programs
actually
started
really
in
Earnest
after
the
second
world
war,
how
free
school
mail
why?
It
was
a
really
practical
thing,
because
Finland
was
such
a
poor
country
that
many
people
simply
couldn't
afford
almost
any
food
at
all
during
the
school
day.
So
the
government
had
to
kind
of
fill
the
gap
so
that
these
kids
would
grow
healthy,
because
if
you
don't
have
any
protein
and
also
your
school
results
drop
your
you
will
have
all
kinds
of
proper
trouble.
B
A
What's
what
is
interesting
about
the
Finish
system
also
is,
is
I
understand
that
your
kids
go
to
school
later
they
have
shorter
school
days
and
they
have
less
homework.
In
other
words,
what
they
try
to
do.
There
also
is
create
a
relaxed
environment
where
kids
can
retain
their
spontaneity
and
enjoy
things,
and
when
you
have
that
kind
of
condition,
then
you
open
to
learning.
If
you
drill
kids,
if
you
depress
kids,
don't
want
to
go
to
school
you're
like
forcing
them
to
learn,
but
learning
should
be
fun
and
I.
B
Right
now,
you're
right,
so
in
our
case
you
go
to
school,
you
go
to
preschool
when
you
are
six
and
that's
actually
obligatory.
Now
you
have
to
go
to
preschool.
Then
you
start
your
real
School
first
grade
when
you
are
seven
yeah
the
school
days,
because
my
boys
go
to
these
are
pretty
School
in
DC,
so
I
know
that
the
days
are
longer
than
they
would
be
in
Finland
and
it
would
be
a
more
relaxed
in
Finland,
especially
the
first
years.
So
you
are
right.
B
We
try
to
kind
of
create
an
environment
when
they
are
not.
They
shouldn't
be
so
tired.
We
shouldn't
put
too
much
emphasis
on
the
academic
heavy
stuff
in
in
the
early
early
years.
So
that's
the
philosophy.
I
think
I
mean
I'm
a
product
of
that
philosophy.
I,
don't
know
if
that's
good,
but
I
think
we
can
compare
that
and
I
tend
to
believe
that,
like,
for
example,
in
our
case,
we
know
that
our
boys,
they
they
they
speak
English
at
school.
They
speak
only
Finnish
at
home,
so
they
have
an
extra
burner.
B
They
have
to
operate
on
two
different
languages
all
the
time
they
used
to
have
a
third
language
as
well,
but
now
they've,
basically
a
lot,
but
what
it
doesn't
mean.
It
does
mean
that
we
don't
really
burden
them
with
a
lot
of
after-school
academic
activities
or
anything
because
I
mean
we
appreciate
that
you
guys
had
to
learn.
You
go
to
school
in
English,
my
older
boy.
He
reads
books
in
English:
it's
not
his
native
language
at
all.
So
it's
it's
already
enough.
R
B
B
We
used
to
live
in
one
country
we
used
to
be
a
part
of
Sweden,
as
Finland
was
always
distinctive
in
terms
of
language.
We
had
our
cultural
and
also
some
political
distinctiveness,
but
we
were
part
of
the
same
country
same
political
system,
so
we
shared
the
same
laws
700
years
together.
So
Sweden
is
like
there
are
differences,
but
Sweden
is
like
a
it's
like
another
side
of
the
coin.
B
B
Actually,
the
Phoenix
and
Estonian
languages
are
the
together
with
Hungarian
are
the
only
female
Greek
languages
in
Europe
that
are
being
spoken,
so
we
can
actually
learn
Estonian
fairly
quickly
and
they
can
also
learn
Phoenix.
The
problem
with
that
is
that
you
may
have
an
illusion
that
you
understand
Estonian,
because
it's
so
close
and
many
many
of
the
I
would
say
critical
words
have
a
totally
opposite
meaning,
so
so
so
Finnish
people
who
think
they
know
Estonian
are
taking
huge
risks
so
Russians.
Obviously
that's
a
complicated
history.
B
B
B
B
It's
not
us
this
time,
it's
ukrainians,
but
but
you
can't
really
forget
those
things
both
of
my
grandfather's
dated
fight
many
years
against
the
Soviets
on
the
front
lines,
so
I'm
part
of
that
generation
who
still
grew
up
listening
to
their
stories
and
that
that,
but
nevertheless,
we've
been
trying
to
really
develop
our
relations
with
the
Russians.
Since
the
breakup
of
the
Soviet
Union.
To
give
you
an
example,
before
the
pandemic,
2019
filmer
did
Issue
800
000
visas
to
Russians
and
10
of
all
Russian
foreign
travel
was
to
Finland,
so
we
it
was.
B
We
were
actually
there's
a
lot
of
interaction.
Now
our
people
think
differently.
We
think
that
if
you
guys
start
attacking
neighboring
countries,
if
you
commit
war
crimes
like
you
do,
if
you
want
just
want
to
kill
people,
you
destroy
civilians,
you'll
destroy
Empress,
then
we
don't
actually
want
to
see
you
here.
So
we
actually
limited
now
the
issuing
of
visas,
grammatically
they're,
basically
down
to
Bear
almost
zero,
so
we
are
living
difficult
times
now.
We
also
lost
all
of
our
trade,
which
was
roughly
five
percent
of
our
for
entry.
So
that's
a
complicated
relationship.