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A
Hello,
I
am
pittsburgh
city
councilman,
daniel
lavelle
and
I'm
councilman
reverend
ricky
burgess,
and
we
welcome
you
to
black
pittsburgh
matters.
This
is
a
series
of
virtual
town
hall
meetings,
affirming
a
city-wide
agenda
that
black
pittsburgh
matters
and
what
does
it
mean
for
black
pittsburgh
to
matter?
It
means
that
black
lives
matter.
It
means
that
we
must
protect
the
health
and
safety
of
black
people.
It
means
black
communities
matter.
It
means
we
must
invest
in
rebuilding
black
communities
and
it
means
that
black
wealth
matters.
We
must
increase
black
employment
and
entrepreneurial.
B
Since
we
cannot
do
that
safely
in
the
current
pandemic,
we
are
now
using
this
media
and
platform
to
come
to
you
in
the
ways
we
can
to
talk
to
you
about
what
we're
doing,
discuss
policy
and
legislation
concerning
black
pittsburgh.
These
means
will
be
available
via
zoom
facebook,
youtube
and
the
city's
cable
channel.
You
can
contact
or
ask
questions
via
the
black
facebook,
the
big
the
black
pittsburgh
matters,
facebook,
page
or
email
us
at
blackpittsburghmatters
gmail.com.
B
Today's
town
meeting
topic
is
housing
and
economic
development.
One
of
the
strategies
to
rebuild
black
communities
is
use,
affordable,
housing
as
an
economic
generator
for
black
communities.
I
am
proud
to
serve
on
the
pittsburgh
housing
authority
of
the
city
of
pittsburgh,
which
creates
and
manages
the
housing
affordable
housing
of
the
city.
As
you
know,
we've
created
in
the
east
end
the
help
initiative
that
uses
the
five-step
approach
to
facilitate
development
collaboration,
community
planning
capacity
and
community-based
organizations,
capital
and
construction.
A
As
you
said,
on
the
housing
authority
board
rev,
I
sit
on
the
city's
urban
redevelopment
authority
board
of
directors
which
coordinates
overall
economic
development
in
the
city
of
pittsburgh
and,
like
you,
have
helped
to
facilitate
scores
of
new
housing
in
neighborhoods,
such
as
hill
district
in
manchester,
oakland
and
fine
view
and
perry
hilltop.
In
addition
to
housing
working
with
two
of
the
partners
that
we
will
hear
from
shortly.
We're
also
working
to
create
a
new
business
corridor
along
center
avenue.
B
Yeah,
I
I
think
dale
talk
a
little
bit
about
your
fight
to
establish
the
housing
opportunity
fund.
A
That
fight
for
me
really
began
with
the
lower
hill
redevelopment.
We
at
the
time
the
pittsburgh
penguins,
who
had
the
development
rights
to
the
land,
had
recruited
mccormick,
baron
salazar
to
be
a
part
of
the
site.
They
were
proposing
approximately
1200
units
of
all
market
rate
housing
which
at
the
time
would
have
been
about
eleven
hundred
dollars
for
one
bedroom
and
going
up
from
there.
A
A
But
sadly-
and
I've
testified
at
the
planning
commission
about
this-
that,
sadly,
because
of
the
discrepancy
in
what
we
pay
women
most
white
women
won't
be
able
to
live
on
the
site,
either
so
you're,
essentially
making
something
for
rich
white
men,
their
own
sort
of
personal
playground
on
the
lower
hill
site,
and
they
said
to
me.
Well,
we
have
the
right,
so
you
really
can't
stop
us
from
doing
it,
and
so
I
thought
well,
I'm
a
legislator.
A
So
I'll
figure
out
a
way
to
legislate
it,
and
shortly
thereafter
I
introduced
the
bill
that
would
require
30,
affordable
housing
for
any
specially
planned
district
and
at
the
time
I
didn't
know
if
that
was
the
right
thing
to
do.
I
didn't
know
if
it
should
be
30,
I
didn't
know
if
it
should
be
ten
percent.
I
had
no
idea
what
ami
it
should
be,
but
shortly
thereafter
and
you
can
obviously
switch
it
is
much
better
than
I.
A
We
also
saw
a
massive
displacement
begin
to
happen
in
the
east
end
with
that
with
a
development
where
developers
said
you
know,
you've
got
60
days
get
out,
and
so
all
of
a
sudden,
the
need
for
this
affordable
housing
and
this
conversation
began
to
rear
his
head,
and
so
in
conversations
with
the
mayor
and
others,
we
agreed
to
table
the
bill
that
I
had
introduced
in
exchange
for
introducing
the
affordable
housing
working
group,
and
so
thus
we
created
the
affordable
housing
task
force.
A
B
Yeah
we
we
both
agree
that
we
hope
that
at
some
point
the
euro
would
take
out
a
bond
of
some
big
number.
You
know
100
200
million
dollars
so
that
we
can
jump
start
development
because
every
year
we
wait,
the
affordable
housing
crisis
gets
worse
and-
and
particularly,
we
need
those
dollars
to
be
invested
in
black
communities.
So
we
can
build
a
housing
for
black
people
in
black
neighborhoods
that
they
feel
comfortable
in
so
in
the
city.
B
In
order
to
redevelop
black
communities,
you
have
to
bring
together
three
different
entities:
right:
private
sector,
public
sector
and
the
community,
and
the
panelists
today
for
represent
each
leg
of
that
three-legged
stool.
We
are
honored
to
have
three
experts
on
housing,
economic
development
in
black
pittsburgh,
marimba,
more
lions.
The
president,
ceo
of
the
hill
community
development
corporation
keith,
key
ceo
of
kbk
enterprises
and
omni
management
group
and
diamante
walker,
deputy
executive
director
of
the
urban
redevelopment
authority
of
the
city
of
pittsburgh.
Welcome.
A
So
I
will
ask
the
answer
an
initial
question.
Now
I
asked
this
question,
as
I
asked
mr
key
to
take
himself
off
of
mute.
Part
of
what
reverend
burgess,
and
I
have
both
said-
is
that
we
need
to
rebuild
these
black
communities
by
black
people
for
black
people
and
given
that
you
are
a
black
developer
and
has
probably
done
the
most
affordable
housing
in
this
city.
C
Yeah
sure
first,
thank
you
for
having
me
I'm
glad
to
be
here
and
excited
to
be.
Amongst
my
my
peer
group,
I've
enjoyed
working
with
both
marimba
and
also
enjoy
working
with
the
amante,
and
obviously
both
councilmen
we've
had
the
luxury
of
working
in
both
of
your
council
districts.
So
it's
been
an
honor
to
work
with
everyone
on
this
call
and
and
and
see
the
fruits
of
all
the
all
of
our
labor.
C
The
mixed
income
question
you
asked,
I
think,
is
an
important
one,
because
I
think
that
is
where
the
complexity
really
begins.
You
know
there
was
a
day
when
everyone
did
just
all
affordable
or
all
market.
C
The
mixed
income
genre
has
been
around
for
the
last,
maybe
10
years
or
so,
and
we've
been
really
making
sure
that
these
are
the
things
that
really
makes
for
a
healthy
community
and
a
healthy
community
is
having
access
to
people
all
resources
so
that
our
children
and
and
and
even
our
adults
have
access
to
relationships
that
wouldn't
normally
occur
naturally
and
gradually.
So
I
think
it's
an
important
piece
of
a
healthy
community
to
have
a
mixed
income
neighborhood.
C
I
think
the
complexity
of
it
is
important
because
you
now
have
to
balance.
You
know
kind
of
you
know
the
biblical
version
of
the
strong
silvery
infirmities
of
the
week.
Finding
a
model
where
people
who
are
paying
market
rate
actually
help
support
some
of
the
delta
that
may
exist
on
the
affordable
side,
especially
in
operations.
C
The
capitalization
of
it
sometimes
is
not
as
big
of
a
factor
as
the
operational
cost,
because
maintaining
those
properties
at
a
high
level
gets
to
be
pretty
expensive
and
you
want
to
have
a
community
that's
attractive
and
can
attract
the
market
rate
residents,
but
also
make
sure
that
the
families
who
are
affordable
have
an
attractive
place
to
live
as
well.
So
we
always
build
in
our
posture
market
rate
units
that
have
become
affordable
versus
affordable
units
that
we're
trying
to
convince
the
market
rate
to
come
to.
But
it
is,
it
is
mathematically
difficult.
C
It
is
socially
difficult
because
there's
perception
in
the
marketplace
oftentimes
in
our
communities
that
make
people
believe
that
they're,
something
that
you
know
something's
wrong
or
it's
a
dangerous
place
or
something
that
we
have
to
overcome
because
of
some
of
the
stigma
that
has
been
attached
to
many
of
our
neighborhoods
in
the
city
of
pittsburgh
and
growing
up
in
both
two
neighborhoods,
both
on
the
hill
and
in
garfield.
C
You
know
I
seen
it
and
for
myself
in
terms
of
just
people
who
didn't
come
from
those
neighborhoods,
not
really
understanding
how
much
they've
you
know
changed
and
how
mature
they
are
and
how
opportunities
opportunistic
they
are
in
terms
of
resources
and
and
those
things
that
are
available.
So
it's
a
very
complex
process
to
go
through
and
it's
not
something
that
has
been
something:
that's
there's
a
model
for
it.
Each
developer
really
has
to
build
its
own
sort
of
ability
to
really
navigate
those
those
very
challenging
waters.
B
You've
been
really
successful
in
advocating
for
affordable
housing
in
the
hill
and
really
around
the
city
and
you've
had
a
lot
of
development.
Going
in
your
in
your
neighborhood
talk
about
what
tools
and
strategies
and
programs
you
think
that
are
needed
to
increase,
affordable
housing
in
pittsburgh.
D
Sure
so
I
think
that
is
super
complex
in
some
ways.
I
do
want
to
say
that
I
used
to
be
a
much
more
fervent
believer
of
mixed
income,
housing
needing
to
be
driven
intentionally
by
community
and
government
agencies,
and
I've
shifted
a
little
bit
in
my
perspective,
given
what's
happening
in
pittsburgh,
I
think
that
the
market
is
so
aggressive
here
in
pittsburgh
that
the
market
is
going
to
take
care
of
the
market
rate
housing
development
and
that
essentially,
for
black
communities
in
particular.
D
What
we
need
to
focus
on
right
now
is
preventing
the
displacement
of
people.
There's
sufficient
vacant
land
in
all
the
black
communities
in
pittsburgh
for
the
most
part
for
additional
market
rate
housing,
so
to
speak
to
happen,
and
we
have
a
very
short
window
before
the
market
begins
to
dictate
almost
everything
that
happens
in
our
communities.
D
So
so
I
think
it's
important
for
us
to
be
thinking
about.
I
just
want
to
set
that
out
there
as
a
point
to
discuss.
During
our
conversation,
I
think
the
tools
that
we
are
missing
is
primarily
around.
D
D
I
think
that
the
community
land
trust
model
is
a
very
school
that
has
a
lot
of
potential
and
if
we
could
more
effectively
work
with
public
agencies
and
communities
to
do
community
land
trusts,
where
public
land
could
be
deposited
into
community
land
trusts
and
preserved
for
affordable
housing,
or
even
what
I
call
affordable
home
ownership
opportunities.
D
That
would
be
excellent
right
now,
too
much
of
the
land
in
our
communities
is
simply
sitting
within
government
agencies
and
not
being,
I
would
say,
brought
back
to
productive
use
quickly
enough,
and
so
I
think,
there's
a
real
opportunity
there
to
utilize
community
land
trusts
and
to
deploy
the
hands
and
feet
of
the
community
development
sector
to
really
flip
those
homes.
D
Now,
what
that's
going
to
require
is
sufficient
money
to
stabilize
and
to
invest
in
those
homes
and
bring
them
back
to
the
market
quickly
enough
for
people
to
get
them
and
to
be
able
to
benefit
and
realize
some
some
equity.
So,
for
example,
we
have
a
program
called
the
hill
district
100
and
the
program
was
created
because
we
were
told
by
a
private
developer
that
they
didn't
think
that
there
was
sufficient
market
demonstration
and
interest
in
becoming
a
homeowner
in
the
hill.
So
we
launched
the
initiative
quickly
got
to
100.
D
We
are
now
at
450
people
on
the
hill
district
100
list.
So
these
are.
This
is
450
people
who
want
to
buy
homes
in
the
hill
district
and
we
have
20
under
our
control
right
and
so
what
we
need
is
capital
and
land
to
get
the
homes
that
are
currently
either
cleared
of
clear
title
and
or
some
other
tools
like
a
community
land
trust,
so
that
we
can
get
these
450
people
home
in
the
hill
district.
So
that's
that's
one
tool.
D
I
think
we
need
additional
money
in
the
housing
opportunity
fund
to
invest
in
additional
home,
affordable
home
ownership,
and
I
think
we
also
do
need
to
think
of
some
other
creative
models.
There's
not
enough
money
at
the
state
at
the
hfa
at
housing
finance
agency
to
fund
all
of
the
tax
credit
deals
that
we
need.
I
mean
every
year,
we're
all
scrambling.
We
got
six
this
year.
I
think
pittsburgh,
which
is
great,
but
not
enough.
D
Last
time
I
checked
there
were
like
19
000
people
in
the
housing
authority's
waiting
list,
so
so
there's
just
not
enough
subsidy
right
now,
and
so
that
would
be,
I
think,
an
important
I
think
tapping
into
the
private
market
leveraging
opportunity
zones
is
a
possibility
in
other
tax
credit
programs,
but
we've
got
to
sit
around
the
table
as
public
private
and
community
interests
to
figure
those
complex
things
out.
A
So
you
and
I
have
had
this
conversation
before
about
affordable
for
sale,
and
I
agree
with
you.
I'm
gonna
just
ask
you
if
you
differ
from
my
thinking
in
any
way,
and
then
I'm
asked
director
walker
about
resources,
maya's
my
assumption
and
you
may
know
better
than
I
is
that
in
order
to
really
capture
affordable
for
sale,
we're
really
talking
about
rehabbing
of
existing
structures,
because
the
subsidy
is
simply
not
there
in
order
to
build
from
the
ground
up
and
then
make
it
also
also
an
affordable
for
sale
unit.
D
Yeah,
I
think
mostly
it
is
a
rehab
model.
There
are
some
lease
purchase
models
that
could
be
utilized
as
well.
The
housing
finance
agency
will
fund
lease
purchase
programs
where
it
is
essentially
a
litec
deal
and
then,
over
a
period
of,
I
think,
it's
16
years
that
pride.
That
program,
then
that
home
unit
converts
to
a
for
sale
unit
and
the
unit
is
extraordinarily
there's
no
comparable
program
to
it
extraordinarily
affordable
to
the
buyer.
At
that
point,
the
low-income
buyer,
and
so
they
would
be
able
to
pay
the
balance
of
that
mortgage.
D
I
believe
over
the
next
four
years
and
own
that
unit,
and
so
what
that
means,
though,
is
that
then
the
private
market
is
no
longer
making
money
on
the
property
management
side.
So
you
know
there
are
implications
to
the
the
market
driven
developers
on
what
that
means
for
property
management
for
them,
and
the
cost
that
they're
going
to
be
looking
at
to
convert
units
as
the
the
projects
come
online
or
as
the
units
convert
from
lease
to
home
ownership,
and
I
think
there
are
also
some
tools
we
could.
D
We
could
again
look
at
opportunity
zones.
We
can
look
at.
I
know
there
was
a
new
market
tax
credit
program,
a
deal
done
on
the
east
end,
so
I
think
it's
really.
A
lot
of
this
is
a
matter
of
creativity
and
leveraging
all
of
our
collective
talents,
abilities
and
skill
sets.
A
So
towards
that
end,
director
walker,
if
you
could
maybe
share
a
little
bit
of
information
about
what
resources
are
there
available
for
for
sale,
affordable
housing
opportunities
and
or
the
lackage
of
or
the
shortage
of
resources,
so
that
rev
and
I
as
legislators,
can
also
begin
thinking
about
how
to
assist
you
in
getting
more
resources
for
this
sort
of
work.
E
Absolutely
so
I
I
want
to
echo
a
lot
of
marimba
sentiments,
she's,
absolutely
right
in
talking
about
that,
we're
not
being
creative
enough
and
how
we're
thinking
about
these
tools
and,
interestingly
enough
on
the
house
with
the
housing
opportunity
fund,
we
are
over
subscribed
on
the
rental
gap
program.
There
are
an
abundance
of
dollars
that
are
being
held
over
from
previous
years
to
do
affordable
home
ownership.
E
I
think
the
gap
here
is
that
you
know
pittsburgh
doesn't
think
creatively
about
affordable
home
ownership,
because
one
of
the
things
that
we
challenge
we're
challenged
by
is
thinking
of
black
people
in
terms
of
ownership
and
thinking
about
how
to
set
people
up
for
long-term
success.
And
when
we
talk
about
affordable
housing,
it's
really
a
surface
level.
Conversation!
E
That's
not
really
looking
deeply
enough
at
the
income
disparity,
so
all
of
us
on
this
call
have
different
levels
of
what
we
can
afford
with
respect
to
housing,
some
of
us
more
than
others,
and
so
in
pittsburgh.
It's
really
about
what's
feasible,
what's
feasible
for
a
potential
home
buyer,
a
potential
resident
to
to
with
respect
to
their
housing,
we're
finding
that
a
lot
of
folks
are
challenged
by
even
by
the
low
income
tax
credit
program,
because
the
rents
are
too
high
and
they
could
be
paying
that
amount
or
less
to
own
a
home.
E
But
we're
not
thinking
about
what
the
cleveland
housing
network
is
doing.
With
respect
to
really
maximizing
those
low-income
tax
credits
to
put
people
in
an
ownership
position.
So
I
think
that's
absolutely
one
tool
that
could
be
looked
at
the
housing
opportunity
fund
really
helping
to
build
capacity
and
some
of
the
community
development
organizations
to
be
able
to
do
to
operate
like
the
private
market
and
do
quicker
flips.
E
E
You
know
we
need
to
rethink
the
housing
authority's
homeownership
program
and
how
we
use
some
of
those
dollars
to
help
underwrite
the
development
cost
to
bring
those
those
units
online.
It's
a
very
it's
a
wonderful
program,
it's
you
know
widely
known
about,
but
I
think
that
there
could
be
more
intra-agency
in
community
coordination
to
streamline
that
a
little
bit
and
accelerate
what
we're
able
to
do
in
neighborhoods.
E
So
we
could
definitely
use
more
support
in
having
funding
that
we
could
count
on
and
rely
upon
to
continue
to
build
that
capacity
strengthen
our
chota
program,
which
is
our
certified
housing
development
program,
which
would
allow
us
to
give
more
sizable
grants
to
community
groups
that
are
in
neighborhoods.
You
know
doing
housing
and
I
think
the
other
thing
is
just
to
better
educate
the
public
about
what
is
available.
E
People
feel
intimidated
by
homeownership,
because
they
think
that
it's,
this
insurmountable,
you
know
responsibility,
and
so
how
can
we
ensure
that
black
pittsburgh
is
not
in
the
dark
about
how
you
know
home
ownership
is
for?
If
for
anybody
who
wants
it,
it's
it's
an
available
tool.
It's
a
re,
you
know
it's
a
resource,
that's
available
to
you
and
how
do
we
just
shift
mindsets
around
one?
We
need
to
do
more
to
ensure
that
black
people
are
earning
on
par
with
our
counterparts
to
be
able
to
buy
these
homes
in
number
two.
B
I
have
over
the
past
in
the
communities
I've
done
work,
we've
taken
a
stance
that
we
put
mixed
income
housing
in
low-income
communities
in
order
to
bring
the
market
to
those
communities
because,
as
we
know,
the
market
really
has
to
be
in
those
communities
if
we're
gonna
ever
completely
transform
them,
and
so
I
have
always
been
hesitant
to
to
do
straight,
affordable
housing
without
a
mixed
housing
component,
because
my
fear
is
that
we
will
not
will
the
market
and
you
need.
I
think
you
need
all
kinds
of
housing
options
right.
B
You
need
affordable
housing,
you
need
mixed
income,
housing,
you
need
market
rate,
housing
and
so
in
in
low-income
communities.
I
have.
I
have
tried
to
use
public
dollars
to
attract
the
private
market
to
come
in
partnership
because
once
they're
private-
and
I
think
marim
is
right.
B
Once
the
private
market
comes
in,
they'll
eat
it
up
so
quickly,
so
you
have
to
build
the
affordable
housing
on
the
front
end,
but
you
have
to
do
it
carefully
and
I
think
if
you
don't
put
mixed
income
in
at
the
front
end
too
you
you
run
the
risk
of
the
market
of
hauling
the
market's
advance
into
those
neighborhoods
keith.
You
have
some
since
you've
done
a
lot
of
this.
I'm
curious
across
the
country.
What's
your
sense
of
this.
C
Oh,
I
think
you're
right,
even
as
you
go
across
the
country
and
I
think
pittsburgh
is
no
different.
I
think
pittsburgh
is
actually
a
turbocharged
version
of
some
of
the
things
I've
seen
in
other
cities
and
we're
in
eight
cities
around
the
country.
C
We
have
a
need
in
pittsburgh
to
really
have
what
I
call
step
up:
housing
right,
that
housing
of
all
sort
of
sectors
so
that
someone
who's
you
know,
challenged
financially
or
someone
who's
doing
well,
financially,
neither
one
would
have
to
leave
the
neighborhood,
and
I
think
pittsburgh
has
had
that
flight
as
the
people
have
succeeded
and
progressed
they've
naturally
just
left
the
neighborhood,
because
there
wasn't
an
available
housing
stock
for
their
interest
or
their
financial
capacity.
C
May
have
different
resources
and
capabilities
to
buy
different
levels
of
housing,
but
when
that
housing
is
available
in
that
same
market,
you
can,
you
know,
start
off
in
the
hill
and
public
housing
and
maybe
you'll
graduate
to
some
mixed
income
or
affordable
housing,
development
and
you'll
graduate
from
that
to
where
your
subsidy
is
no
longer
needed
and
maybe
you're
interested
in
home
ownership.
The
housing
authority
has
home
ownership,
resources
that
help
support
families
to
buy
first-time
home
buyers
and,
and
the
program
marimba
mentioned
in
terms
of
bringing
people
together.
C
Helping
them
get
credit
worthy
and
being
able
to
buy
homes
is
great
because
that
creates
demand
and
demand
fees
the
supply,
but
everyone,
you
know,
will
want
to
grow
and
as
someone
grows,
you
wouldn't
want
someone
to
become
a
lawyer
and
say
I
make
150
000
as
an
attorney
and
have
to
leave
the
neighborhood,
because
there's
no
product
that's
available
in
that
community.
The
community
needs
to
have
lawyers
and
professionals
live
in
these
neighborhoods,
so
we
can
all
have
access
to
those
resources
at
our
disposal.
C
So
I
think
it's
it's
something
that
has
to
be
a
concerted
effort.
I
think
these
things
don't
happen
naturally,
and
I
think
there's
a
perception
in
the
marketplace
that
these
things
will
take
care
of
themselves.
They
won't.
You
know,
we've
done
developments
all
over
the
country,
and
sometimes
people
think
that
people
living
on
the
periphery
of
these
developments
will
automatically
do
development
themselves
or
rehab
their
homes.
Some
do
and
most
don't
so.
It
doesn't
necessarily
have
a
natural
effect
because
they
have
access
or
issues
with
access
to
financing.
C
They
may
not
be
to
get
a
rehab
loan
for
their
home
or
they
may
not
be
able
to
have.
You
know
the
wherewithal
to
want
to
support
more
debt,
because
they're,
older
or
seniors
there's
a
whole
lot
of
complexities
in
that
space,
and
we
have
obviously
another
issue
in
pittsburgh
where
there's
a
lot
of
absentee
landlords
in
some
of
the
markets
that
I've
done
development
in
in
garfield.
When
I
first
came
back
to
pittsburgh,
I
was
able
to
do
my
own
neighborhood,
and
the
amount
of
absentee
landlords
was
just
phenomenal.
C
It
was
like
60
or
something
it
was
so
used
that
there
were
so
many
rental
homes
that
were
owned
by
people
who
no
longer
lived
in
the
city
even
but
they
were
leasing
it
to
people
who
may
not
have
been
healthy
for
the
neighborhood.
But
there
was
no
oversight,
no
management,
no
accountability,
and
so
there
was
a
transformation
that
now
many
of
those
homes
in
garfield
have
been
purchased
now.
C
They're
redeveloped
they're
becoming
single
family
homes
again,
because
the
people
who
have
been
leasing
are
now
finding
that
there's
a
market
to
buy
and
people
are
buying
those
homes,
and
so
it's
changed
quite
a
bit.
So
I
think,
there's
a
transformation.
It
has
to
happen,
but
it
doesn't
happen.
Naturally,
I
think
that's
where
you
know
the
agencies
that
we
talked
about
here,
both
the
hill,
cdc
and
ura,
and
the
collaboration
of
all
the
housing
authorities
and
even
the
private
sector.
C
You
know
become
part
of
a
planning
process
and
I
think
the
one
thing
that
often
gets
missed
in
the
planning
is
having
a
developer
at
the
table,
because
I
think
the
plan
sometimes
becomes
a
great
plan.
But
if
there's
no
action,
if
there's
no
capital,
that
someone's
willing
to
put
their
skin
in
the
game
to
really
invest
in
that
vision,
it
tends
to
become
a
plan,
and
I
think,
we've
all
seen
communities
with
a
whole
lot
of
plans.
I
mean
I've
not
been
in
the
city,
yet
that
didn't
have
a
plan.
C
When
I
arrived
most
of
them
never
happened.
Most
of
them
had
been
on
the
table
for
10
years
or
more
because
it
takes
more
than
someone's
vision
to
make
it
happen.
You
need
to
have
somebody
who's
going
to
be
the
implementer
and
take
the
risk,
and
there
is
a
risk.
I
mean
make
no
mistake
about
it.
This
is
not
something
that
people
have
a
fish,
a
net
to
protect
them.
When
you
make
an
investment
into
these
neighborhoods
into
these
deals,
you
can
lose
it
all.
C
You
can
lose
quite
a
bit
and
and
not
recover
from
these
developments
for
years
to
come.
So
it's
a
complex
matter,
but
I
think
with
the
point
the
amani
made
earlier
with
a
consortium
of
people
at
the
table
all
committed
and
invested,
and
we
had
that
same
conversation.
C
As
you
know,
I
think
the
homewood
collaborative
was
our
first
to
really
come
into
a
neighborhood
that
that
collaborative
was
already
there
and
so
we
came
in
and
they
already
had
some
real
distinct
expectations,
and
so
we
sat
down
with
them
and
they
were
part
of
rolling
it
out
to
the
community.
So
it
wasn't.
We
weren't
there
by
ourselves
trying
to
really.
You
know
manage
that
situation
with
the
community.
They
were
part
of
the
collaboration
and
we
were
part
of
the
team
versus
being
an
outsider
when
we're
the
outsider.
B
D
D
The
large
amount
of
it
has
been
the
acquisition
of
homes
from
private
investors
who
are
leasing
to
students
and
university
faculty,
and
then,
of
course,
you
have
single-family
home
owners
who
may
be
middle-income
in
many
cases,
and
then
you
have
some
low-income
families
as
well,
but
when
you
are
surrounded
and
a
lot
of
black
communities
in
pittsburgh
are
by
extraordinarily
aggressive
markets,
it's
going
to
come
into
the
perimeter
of
the
neighborhood
and
it's
going
to
move
towards
the
center
of
the
neighborhood,
which
is
what's
happening
in
the
hill
district,
and
I
presume
that's
also
probably
happening
in
homewood,
but
I'm
not
as
familiar
with
all
of
the
market
dynamics
there.
D
So
so
I
think
that
I
think
I
think
I
think,
as
a
community
developer
and
as
government
agencies
using
public
dollars,
specifically
targeting
affordable
housing,
that
it
is
a
tight
rope
to
push
the
market
rate
development.
I
think
that
it,
you
know
again.
I
was
a
proponent
of
of
this
strategy.
I
mean
hill
cdc
was
partial
owner
of
crawford
square.
The
only
reason
we
exited
that
deal
recently
was
because
they-
and
that
was
20
years
ago-
that's
a
market
rate
development.
D
It
has
homeownership,
it
has
low
income,
it
has
market
rate
apartments,
it
had
it
all
right.
The
only
reason
we
exited
that
deal
was
because
the
housing
authority
became
a
partner
and
could
assure
long-term
affordability,
but
there
is
no
question
that
it
could
have
potentially
been
flipped
to
our
market,
so
I
think
that
affordable
housing
when
we
look
at
the
demand
and
the
need
then
market
need,
is
not
in
market
rate
housing.
D
That's
not
where
the
the
market
demand
is
when,
when
we
look
at
our
housing
studies,
it's
not
where
the
demand
is.
We
of
course,
all
have
individual
experiences,
family
members,
cousins,
friends
who
who
say
I
would
live
in
the
hill.
If
I
could
find
a
house,
oh,
I
would
love
to
live
in
homewood.
D
If
I
could
just
find
that
house
right
and
then
when
it
comes
time
for
the
river
to
meet
the
road,
you
realize
it
wasn't
just
the
house,
it
was
the
schools,
it
was
the
violence,
it
was
the
safety,
it
was
the
sense
of
safety
perceptions
status.
I
mean
a
lot
of
things
play
into
people,
taking
that
leap
to
buy
a
350,
000
house
and
and
and
and
so
yes,
we
could
probably
find
a
good
handful
of
people.
I'm
look.
I
got
them
on
our
list
right.
D
D
We
have
the
market
test
right,
so
we
know
the
exact
number
of
people
who
are
willing
and
who
or
who
can't
afford
350
000
homes
in
the
hill
and
it's
it
is
not
the
kind
of
number
where
you
want
to
embrace
that
as
a
wide
scale
policy,
unless
you
plan
to
wholly
gentrify
and
focus
on
cultural
and
cultural
displacement
and
displacement
of
black
residents,
so
you
know,
I
think
I
think
it's
a
balancing
act.
D
You
know
pittsburgh
is
not
a
city
that
has
been
successful,
successful
at
building
a
black
middle
class,
helping
black
people
escape
poverty.
It
we
that's,
not
our
track
record
here.
D
So
when
we
talk
about
building
mixed
income
homes,
mixed
income
communities
and
market
rate
homes,
we
we
we
have
to
look
at
it
through
that
lens
that
there's
a
finite
number
of
buyers
who
are
going
to
be
buying
those
350
homes,
and
so
that
that
would
be.
That
would
be
my
response
to
that.
It's
it's
great!
In
theory,
it
is,
I
mean
it
sounds
wonderful.
It
really
does,
but
where
the
river
meets
the
road,
that's
not
what
the
market
studies
tell
us.
The
demand
is.
B
If
we're
going
to
too
much
further,
I
need
to
give
in
tonight's
history
making
event
where
campbell
harris
will
make
her
her
speech.
Tonight.
We
do
have
some
history
here
in
pittsburgh.
We
have
with
us
demoni
walker,
who
is
the
highest
ranking
black
female
ever
in
the
history
of
the
ura.
Certainly,
congratulations
but
tell
us
about
your
experiences
as
both
the
interim
executive
director,
the
deputy
director
of
the
ura.
What
are
the
things
that
you've
been
working
on,
that
you
think
have
been
helpful
or
will
be
helpful
to
black
pittsburgh.
E
So
thank
you
for
for
that.
I
you
know
I.
I
will
say
that
I,
when
I
hear
that
I'm
the
the
highest
ranking
or
the
first
black
female
you
know
to
acclimate
to
power
at
the
ura.
I
always
say
like
it's
not
be
it's.
It's
a
failure
on
the
part
of
the
ura.
As
far
as
I'm
concerned,
I'm
certainly
not
the
first
qualified
woman
to
walk
through
its
doors
and
it's
you
know
it's
no,
no
sort
of
aggrandizement
to
myself.
E
I
think
it's
just
the
moment
that
we
are
that
we
are
in
and
it
should
have
happened
a
long
time
ago.
So
I
do
want
to
preface
it
with
that
and
then
and
then
say
you
know
it's
interesting
being
in
my
role.
I
think
that
it's
it.
You
know
it's
been
a
white
male
run
organization,
primarily
in
its
history
other
than
lulu
peru's,
exemplary
tenure
as
the
first
black
man.
E
You
know
to
run
the
ura
and
I
think
that
what
I
found
is
that
you
know
everybody
has
to
get
accustomed
to
a
black
woman
wielding
the
level
of
power
that
I
willed
and
that
it's
been
an
adjustment
for
the
organization
to
adapt
to
that,
and
I
you
know
and
because
I'm
going
to
speak
for
people
who
grew
up
in
the
part
of
the
neighborhood,
you
know
that
that
I
grew
up
in
and
I'm
certainly
going
to
represent
those
interests
in
any
any
policy
decision,
and
not
that
I
you
know
I'm
certainly
I
have
you
know
seven
or
eight
bosses
that
I
have
to
answer
to
one
of
them
being
on
the
call
today.
E
So
so,
there's
definitely
a
balancing
act
there.
But
I'll
tell
you
what
I
feel
you
know
empowered
to
do.
It
is
to
rethink
you
know
as
we're
talking
about
market
rate,
it's
to
rethink
income
inclusion,
and
how
do
we
ensure
that
the
public
sector
doesn't
co-opt
cultural
erasure
in
neighborhoods
that
that
that
is
really
what
we
have
to
figure
out?
And
so
I
guess
I
don't
subscribe
to
the
notion
that
there
aren't.
You
know
wealthy
black
people
who
want
to
move
in
these
neighborhoods.
E
I
see
a
lot
of
demand,
for
you
know
our
faith-based
community.
You
know
at
several
of
our
churches
in
the
neighborhood
who
would
love
to
be
a
few
doors
down
from
their
church
and
would
love
to
have
a
housing
product
online
that
that
would
do
that
and
a
lot
of
people
who
have
been
displaced
from
the
hill
district.
E
They're
scooped
up
by
you,
know
what
marimba
talked
about
by
folks
who
want
to
flip
it
to
student
housing,
and
so
one
of
the
things
that
we've
been
able
to
do
at
the
ura
is
to
put
together
a
fund
at
the
councilman's
request
to
put
us
in
a
position
to
be
able
to
buy
those
properties
and
preserve
them
for
the
right
market
opportunity
or
for
the
right,
affordable
opportunity
to
give
the
neighborhood
an
opportunity
to
calibrate
the
market
a
little
bit.
You
know,
black
people
do
participate
in
the
market.
E
Black
people
are
a
part
of
the
market
and
a
part
of
that
demand,
and
I
don't
think
that
we
need
to
always
conflate
blackness
with
poverty.
It's
the
sad
circumstance
here
in
pittsburgh,
but
I
think
that
that's
the
challenge.
We've
got
to
shift
that
we've
got
to
change
that
black
people
should
be
thought
of
in
terms
of
abundance
and
affluence,
and
you
know
there's
certainly
a
desire
here
on
the
part
of
black
people,
but
the
opportunities
are
not
being
created.
E
The
opportunities
do
not
exist,
and
so
I
see
it
as
our
charge
and
as
my
charge
at
the
ura
to
make
sure
that
those
opportunities
that
people
have
been
sort
of
you
know
eliminated
from
they're,
not
in
the
elite.
How
can
we
make,
how
can
we
democratize
resources,
information
power
and
and
try
to
put
people
in
a
better
position
than
how
we
found
them?
So
hopefully
that
answers
your
question.
A
So
I
want
to
follow
up
you.
Both
you
and
marimba,
have
made
a
number
of
comments
that
I
would
like
to
ask
about.
So
go
with
the
first
one.
Remember
you
spoke
about
someone
making
that
leap
right
to
say.
I'm
gonna
purchase
a
350
000
house
in
the
upper
hill,
because
it's
more
than
just
the
house,
it's
where's
the
business
district.
It's
where's!
How?
A
How
are
the
schools
looking
it's
it's
all
of
that
and
reverend
burgess
has
often
also
spoken
about
the
fact
that
when
we
come
into
these
neighborhoods
we
have
to
do
it
all
it's
not
one
or
one
or
the
other,
it's
needing
to
address
all
of
those.
So
I'm
curious
because
you've
played
a
role
and
director
walker
has
also
played
a
role.
One
of
our
strategies
was
to
also
say:
if
we're
going
to
build
the
housing,
then
we
also
need
to
build
the
business
district
and
we
need
to
invest
in
right
now.
A
We're
investing
in
center
avenue,
where
we've
intentionally
said:
let's
try
to
build
a
majority
black
business
district
by
black
developers
for
black
companies
for
black
ownership,
because
that
may
also
help
attract
than
the
buyer.
Who's
wanting
to
invest
in
that
350
000
house,
I'm
curious
director
walker.
A
If
you
could
speak
to
that
process
a
little
more
and
how
you
think
that's
going,
and
then
I'd
also
be
interested
in
hearing
ms
malion's
response
about
that
same
process
and
what
we
need
to
do
moving
forward
to
ensure
that
we
can
and
track
the
businesses
and
the
additional
amenities
that
will
allow
someone
to
come
in
and
purchase
that
home.
E
Sure
so
the
center
avenue
process,
so
it
should
be
first
recognized
that
the
hill
district
has
a
has
a
master
plan
and
actually
has
an
award-winning
center
avenue
redevelopment
plan
that
was
overseen
by
the
hill
cdc,
it's
an
incredible
plan,
and
it
has
certainly
poised
the
neighborhood
you
know
for
for
implementation
of
of
its
corridor,
and
so
the
ura
owns
about
70
percent
of
the
land.
E
Remember
just
talked
about
this
too
much
of
the
land
is
currently
in
public
ownership,
which
which
is
a
problem,
and
that
there
has
not
been
an
intentional
focus
on
how
to
start
how
to
move
the
land.
Do
it
in
a
responsible
way
and
bring
those
properties
back
to
productive
use
with
actors
already
boots
on
the
ground
in
the
neighborhood.
So
that
is
our.
You
know
our
non-cultural
institutions,
our
non-profit
institutions,
our
long-time
business
owners
that
exist
along
that
corridor.
E
So
the
ura
typically
does
what
we
call
an
rfp,
which
is
we
send
out
an
rfp,
and
you
know
it's
gonna
cost
you
about
five
to
eight
thousand
dollars
as
a
developer
to
pull
together.
That
proposal
submit
it
and
you
basically
you're
off.
You
know
make
sure
that
it.
You
know
the
proposal
aligns
with
the
master
plan
and
then
you
know
we're
sort
of
off
to
the
races
with
big
broad
scale
development.
We
took
a
pause
and
said
you
know
the
community's
been
very
thoughtful
about
their
planning
process.
E
They've
talked
you
know
at
an
item
about
how
to
position
people
for
ownership
and
how
to
make
sure
that
you
know
there
isn't
this
notion
of
cultural
erasure
happening
in
the
neighborhood,
so
we
pivoted-
and
I
I
advocated
pretty
pretty
you
know
hard
for
this-
to
do
an
rfq
process
which
would
be
to
qualify
developers
and
to
have
them
give
us
their
vision
in
accordance
with
the
master
plan
as
to
how
center
avenue
could
be
redeveloped,
and
so
what
we've
seen
come
out
of
that
are
neighborhood
scale
developers
like
thomas
boyd
who's
been
in
the
neighborhood
for
14
years.
E
You
know
running
his
business,
but
not
being
in
a
position
to
own
and
so
wanting
to
figure
out,
and
then
we
have
the
hams
barber
shop
which
is
deteriorating
out.
You
know
I
drive
by
it.
The
windows
were
open,
they
weren't
boarded
up,
and
I
think
I
was
calling
you
councilman
level
at
the
time
said
I
need
to.
I
need
those
windows
boarded
up.
E
What's
the
problem
I
got
to
the
ura
and
it
was
like
hey:
go
board
of
the
windows
right
so
now
we
are
seeing
that
tom
will
take
on
ham's
barbershop
and
do
the
the
second
wave
of
institutional
stability
there
at
that
intersection
of
kirkpatrick
and
center,
and
so
that
and
that's
that's
a
wonderful
thing.
We
want
to
celebrate
that.
E
So
we've
got
to
be
thoughtful
about
that,
and
so
there
are
a
lot
of
tools
and
deed
restrictions
in
community
land,
trust
and
things
that
we
can
think
about.
Should
this
property
come
back
on
the
market,
how
does
it
revert
back
to
community
and
public
control
so
that
we
don't
have
the
cultural
erasure
happen?
I
mean
it's
really
about
cultural
preservation
and
I
think
that's
what
we're
going
to
see
with
the
center
avenue
process
the
way
that
it's
being
developed
right
now.
D
D
As
you
all
know,
I
have
been
very
concerned
about
the
center
avenue
process,
not
taking
that
into
consideration
specifically
and
that
we
and
I
love
mbs.
I
ran
my
own
business
for
years.
I
love
being
an
entrepreneur.
I'm
an
entrepreneur
turned
nonprofit
executive,
it
was,
it
was
a
strange
transition.
Still
is
sometimes
so.
D
I
I
I've
spent
most
of
my
career
advocating
for
mbes,
but
mbes
are
not
nonprofits
they're
mbes
and,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
they've
got
to
protect
their
bottom
line
because
their
bottom
line
is
attached
to
their
family
and,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
as
much
as
we
believe
and
and
hope
that
an
mbe
will
choose
the
community
over
their
bottom
line.
D
If
it
comes
to
it,
and
I
would
expect
them
and
not
begrudge
them
for
it,
they're
gonna
have
to
make
the
best
decision
for
their
business,
that's
just
the
reality
of
being
in
business,
and
so
I
was
concerned
that
we
were
not
putting
the
necessary
guard
rails
in
place
to
protect
the
community
by
only
saying
as
long
as
mves
secure
the
project
or
do
the
development
that
we're
good.
I
think
that
not
to
mention
that
the
hill
district's
master
plan
explicitly
states
that
mbes
and
non-mbes
everyone
park.
D
For-Profit
businesses
should
be
partnered
with
community-based
organizations,
and
that
was
the
philosophy
behind
that
specific
principle.
So
hopefully
the
ura
and
the
city
are
making
some
progress
on
enforcing
that
specific
part
of
the
community's
master
plan
as
well.
D
But
I
am
happy
to
hear
about
the
guard
rails
and
I'd
love
to
learn
that
in
more
detail,
and
I
do
advise
that
all
communities
advocate
fiercely
for
mbe
opportunity-
I
mean
particularly
in
pittsburgh-
I
mean
it's,
it's
you
know
the
access
to
capital
issues,
the
lack
of
diversity
amongst
industry
that
are
is
driven
by
mbs.
D
It's
a
real
issue,
so
I
am
here
to
do
all
of
the
advocacy
that
I
can
for
mvs,
but
I
do
think
that
when
it
comes
to
land
ownership,
as
I
frequently
say,
land
is
a
finite
resource.
Once
it's
developed,
it's
a
wrap,
it's
a
wrap,
so
we
better
make
really
really
smart
decisions
about
how
we
develop
it,
who
develop
it
and
who
develops
it
and
what
the
conditions
are
around.
D
The
transfer
of
taxpayers
land
to
private
interest-
I
go
on
for
a
long
time
about
that,
so
I
won't,
but
in
terms
of
the
amenities
councilman
that
you
asked
about,
you
know,
I
think
that
I
think
that
there
are
black
middle
class
folks
who
would
move
to
the
hill.
I
don't
think
that
this
is
as
long
as
is
maybe
believed,
and
if
there's
market
evidence
to
suggest
that
there
is.
D
I
want
to
see
it
because
I
want
to
be
become
a
believer
that
if
we
build
400
market
rate
in
the
hill
district,
that
there
are
400
black
families
lined
up
to
buy
those
homes.
I
love
to
see
that
evidence.
D
I
don't
have
that
right
now,
and
so
you
know
if
we
or
if
we're,
making
data-driven
decisions,
we
have
to
make
data-driven
decisions,
and-
and
so
let's,
let's
maybe
get
that
as
an
addendum
to
the
housing
market-
study
that
the
city
did
that'd,
be
great
information
for
all
of
us
to
have
to
make
smarter
decisions
about
what
we
do.
D
You
know,
I
think
that,
given
the
racial
demographics
of
pittsburgh,
I
think
it
isn't
it's
very
important
to
be
intentional
about
building
black
communities,
and
I
don't
think
I
think
we
have
to
just
embrace
that
and
and
and
and
put
it
on,
and
just
you
know
like
live
in
that
reality,
that
we
are
embracing
the
eye
building
communities
and
if
we
are
embracing
the
idea
of
building
black
communities
and
protecting
black
communities,
then
there's
a
greater
onus
of
responsibility
on
what
that
means
today
versus
what
that
will
mean
in
10
years.
D
D
Like
that's
my
nightmare
right,
because
I've
spent
my
life
doing
this
work,
and
so
I
am
always
trying
to
figure
out.
How
can
we
put
things
in
place
to
protect
that
now,
as
it
relates
to
attracting
those
middle
class
families?
I
think
that
it
just
has
to
be
a
conversation
right.
It
has
to
be
you're
joining
a
movement
right.
D
It
can't
be
we're
going
to
build
this,
for
you,
like
schools,
aren't
going
to
change
that
fast
they're,
not
nor
black
folks
income
in
pittsburgh,
based
on
what
we
know
from
from
previous
performance
like
incomes,
don't
change
that
quickly,
we're
not
going
to
produce
that
many
more
black
middle-class
income
families
next
year.
It's
not
going
to
happen,
you
know,
so
we
got
to
be
realistic
about
how
quickly
things
change
schools
aren't
going
to
change
next
year.
D
Meanwhile,
what
we're
seeing
is
tremendous
amount
of
aggressive
pressure
on
the
upper
hill,
district,
uptown
and
yeah
crawford
to
maybe
a
lesser
degree,
but
it's
closing
in
quickly
and
as
we
continue
to
see
the
innovation
economy
growing
here
in
pittsburgh,
you
know
folks
are
leaving
san
francisco.
I
don't
know
if
you
all
have
been
reading
these
stories.
Folks
are
packing
up
leaving
because
they
can
work
remotely
they're
like
I'm
out.
I
I'm
not
paying
these
high
rents
no
more.
You
know
where
they're
coming
right.
D
They
come
to
pittsburgh
and
and
they
are
used
to
paying
2
000
a
month
for
a
box.
That's
what's
coming!
So
when
we
talk
about
the
market,
we
got
to
throw
that
in
the
mix.
We
got
to
throw
that
in
the
mix
that,
like
let's
be
intentional
about
how
we're
building
and
who
we're
building
for
as
soon
as
those
2
000
per
month.
Folks
get
here.
A
Well,
what
so,
if
I
could,
just
so,
you
said
a
lot,
the
vast
majority
of
which
I
agree
with,
but
there
was
one
thing
you
said
that
has
been
brought
up
by
yourself,
director
walker
keith,
which
is
the
unfortunate
circumstance
of
black
economics
within
the
city
of
pittsburgh,
and
thus
the
reason
why
we
can't-
or
many
of
us
cannot
afford
the
market
rate
home
et
cetera,
et
cetera,
et
cetera.
For
me-
and
I
believe
this
is
the
case
for
reverend
burgess
as
well.
A
It's
always
been
the
intent
to
not
just
build
a
home
for
the
sake
of
building
the
home,
not
just
work
and
assist
the
cdc
for
doing
the
new
granada
for
the
sake
of
the
new
granada.
But
it's
also
to
help
drive
black
economics.
I'm
gonna
start
with
keith,
but
then
I'll
open
up
to
all
of
you.
The
the
importance
of
black
people
actually
working
on
all
these
projects
is
ever
so
important
so
that
we
do
begin
to
slowly
move
that
needle
and
when
I
say
work
on
these
products
projects.
A
Excuse
me,
I
don't
just
mean
the
actual
physical
construction,
I'm
talking
pre-construction
from
the
whatever
architects.
Does
your
drawings,
I'm
talking
about
the
hammer
and
the
nail
I'm
talking
about
the
person
who
manages
the
property
after
the
fact,
like
all
of
that,
all
the
professional
service
contracts
all
of
that
stuff,
I
think
we
have
to
be
as
intentional
as
possible
of
steering
as
many
as
much
of
those
dollars
to
black
folk
as
possible.
A
Marimba,
I
know,
is
doing
that
right
now,
with
the
new
granada,
I
get
an
email
or
a
facebook
post
every
day
about
it.
I
know
keith,
you
have
amongst
developers
here
within
the
city
of
pittsburgh.
I
remember
when
we
were
oh
man.
I
can't
remember
what
groundbreaking
we
were
at,
but
I
spoke
about
your
numbers
and
I
highlighted
the
mwb
numbers
that
you
had
achieved.
It
was
a
development
in
the
middle
hill,
the
community
space
and
the
mayor's.
A
And
the
mayor
said:
oh
wow,
this
is
phenomenal
right
and
your
response
was,
but
this
should
be
happening
across
the
entire
city.
Can
you
talk
to
us
just
a
little
bit
about
how
you
achieve
your
mwbe
numbers
and
what
that
process
looks
like,
and
then
I'd
also
be
interested
in
hearing
from
marumba
and
director
walker
about
what
we
as
government
could
also
be
doing
to
assist
you
in
your
efforts
of
achieving
higher
greater
nwe
numbers
right
and.
C
So
that
that
that
is
a
very
passionate
point
for
me,
I've
been
in
business
30
years
and
for
me,
I've
always
seen
how
black
businesses
are
not
necessarily
getting
the
same
opportunities
as
white
businesses,
whether
it
be
developers.
That's.
Why
there's
not
a
plethora
of
black
developers
around
the
country
which,
on
one
hand,
allows
me
to
travel
and
go
to
eight
different
cities,
but
out
of
the
eight
cities,
I'm
in
I've
been
the
largest
developer
in
every
city.
C
I've
been
in,
I
did
a
project
in
harlem
new
york
and
I
was
the
largest
black
developer
in
harlem
at
the
time,
which
sounds
bizarre
to
me
quite
frankly,
because
that's
the
black
mecca,
but
they
hadn't
achieved.
Yet
they
had
done
four
billion
dollars
worth
of
redevelopment
of
harlem,
but
no
one
had
been
an
african-american
developer
at
that
time,
and
this
was
maybe
15
years
or
12
years
ago
and
over
time
you
know,
people
have
built
up
a
resiliency
or
an
interest
to
do
it.
C
But
you
know
this
is
something
that
is
still
nubo
in
most
cities,
because
it
takes
a
lot
of
resources
to
be
an
african-american
developer,
especially
in
multiple
markets,
but
part
of
what
helps
make
that
possible.
For
me,
anyway,
is
the
support
I
can
get
from
the
larger
community,
both
from
the
political
ranks,
the
community
and
people
in
these
agencies.
That
see
me
as
capable
to
do
those
same
things.
C
Anybody
else
can
do,
and
so
sometimes
your
product
got
to
speak
for
your
your
credibility
and
we
worked
hard
to
really
achieve
that,
starting
with
garfield.
When
I
first
came
back,
you
know
I
got
the
award
and
I
was
you
know
excited
because
it
was
my
neighborhood
and
my
home.
My
mama
still
lived
on
colombo
street.
You
know
it
was.
It
was
just
great,
you
know,
and
that's
the
first
time
my
mother
actually
knew
what
I
did.
I
told
her
what
I
did
but
she's
like
you
know
now.
C
I
know
what
you
do
because
you're
going
to
do
it
in
in
on
our
street,
but
I
think
in
that
space
once
we
got
the
contract
it
was
about.
How
do
we
get
people
to
participate?
How
do
we
get
the
economics
to
share
when
I
had
that
development?
That's
100
million
dollar
deal
now.
Keith
doesn't
walk
away
with
100
million
dollars
in
cash.
C
Sometimes
we
have
to
provide
training
and
what
I've
learned
over
time
and
what's
made
it
possible
when
we
got
done
with
the
the
project
councilman
burgess
was
there
and
and
presented
many
of
the
awards,
the
awards
that
we
gave
out
to
the
minority
contractors
and
and
over
that
period
of
time
of
those
four
phases,
was
so
critical
because
we
worked
in
a
concentric
manner
to
where
someone
came
on
the
site
in
2000
2010
and
worked
on
the
site
until
the
completion
of
it
in
phase
4
in
2015,
and
so
that
have
a
contractor,
who
may
have
been
a
painter
work
consistently
every
day
at
the
same
site
for
five
years.
C
That's
transformational,
it
wasn't
a
one-and-done.
It
wasn't.
You
know,
do
these
50
units
and
maybe
some
part
of
that
50
units,
and
then
you
leave,
but
they
actually
have
ability
to
grow.
So
we've
been
able
to
grow
businesses
to
be
able
to
actually
benefit
financially
from
this
process.
In
pittsburgh
alone,
we've
actually
issued
over
100
million
dollars
in
nwbe
contracts
out
of
the
projects
that
we've
been
involved
with.
C
That's
that's
massive
when
you
think
of
black
and
women-owned
businesses
getting
a
hundred
million
dollars
worth
of
contracts
from
one
black
developer,
and
I
can
probably
put
that
up
against
probably
every
every
non-black
developer
in
the
city
and
they
haven't
done
a
hundred
million
dollars
collectively,
but
it
has
to
take
a
concerted
effort
to
do
it
and
we've
mastered
bonded
we've
you
know,
did
joint
checks,
we've
financed
people,
we've
been,
we've
done
everything
quite
frankly,
and
it's
not
all
been
successful,
but
you
can't
take
the
the
people.
C
Who've
not
succeeded
and
throw
them
away
either.
Sometimes
what
they've
done
and
what
they've
failed
is
not
from
a
skill
set.
They
just
didn't,
have
the
back
shop
or
their
capacity
to
do
some
of
the
work
that
has
to
be
done
on
these.
These
large-scale
projects
we've
had
people
who
literally
was
missing
their
pay
applications
and
we
called
and
said:
hey.
You
haven't,
put
a
pay
app
in
in
the
last
payout
and
now
you're
about
to
miss
the
second
pay
act.
C
Well,
I
don't
know
how
to
do
it,
because
I
don't
have
my
wife
didn't
learn
how
to
do
this
part
of
it
she's,
not
an
accountant,
and
so
we've
actually
had
to
help
people
find
resources
to
build
a
back
shop,
so
they
can
actually
get
the
money
that
they've
worked
so
hard
for,
but
these
government
related
funding
sources
really
require
a
lot
of
documentation,
the
amount
he
knows
because
you
know
she's
a
you
know
a
part
of
that
process,
but
to
get
those
resources,
that's
the
you
have
to
accept
that
as
a
consequence,
these
are
the
things
that
make
it
possible
because
there's
a
heavy
introduction
of
needing
to
have
mwde,
but
now
you
got
to
find
them
to
make
sure
that
you
can
grow
them
and
build
their
business.
C
So
it's
it's
a
it's
a
tough
place
to
be,
but
I
think,
with
a
committed
party,
that's
going
to
be
involved
to
say
we
are
going
to
do
it,
no
matter
what
that's
when
that's
when
it
happens,
that's
when
you
find
those
businesses
you
don't
they
don't
often
find
you
sometimes
you
gotta
find
them
my
first
contract
in
garfield.
We
had
five
minority
contractors
show
up.
I
said
no,
we're
gonna,
do
it
again,
the
very
next
week
I
called
everybody.
C
C
It
costs
money
to
do
cost
estimates
and
so
forth
and
then
not
get
it
time
and
time
and
time
again,
but
I
promise
them
that
day
if
they
commit
to
bid
forward
we'll
find
a
way
to
solve
it
and
we'll
find
a
way
to
get
them
on
this
project
and
that
grew
and
grew
and
grew
down.
We
had
one
when
we
did
the
skyline
terrace.
We
did
it
at
the
y.
C
We
had
probably
almost
200
people
show
up
because
they
believe
now
that
there's
contracts
that
are
going
to
be
really
available
and
they're
willing
to
come
and
at
least
provide
an
opportunity
and
the
hard
part
is
finding
people
that
you
can
continue
to
grow
and
keep
on
the
project
because
to
give
them
a
deal
and
then
leave
the
neighborhood
or
leave
the
city
or
leave.
You
know
the
community
and
not
see
them
actually
get
more
deals.
It's
hard
to
grow
your
business
and
then
go
back
to
nothing
again
or
doing
someone's
garage
again.
C
It's
a
very
difficult
thing
for
business.
So
part
of
the
concerted
effort
that
I
heard
diamante
talk
about
in
terms
of
funding
businesses
and
your
interests
to
fund
minority
businesses
is
how
do
you
create
not
just
a
fund
to
get
them
access
to
the
business?
But
how
do
you
sustain
it?
This
is
the
sustainability
of
it.
C
That
makes
a
lot
of
sense,
because
if
they
get
one
contract,
one
contract's
not
going
to
be
enough
they're
going
to
need
to
grow
it
because
they're
hiring
staff,
because
I'm
an
african-american,
I'm
hiring
african-american
contractors
they're
inherent
african-american
employees.
You
know
it
is
a
cyclical
process
and
even
our
developments
you
know,
98
of
our
developments
are
occupied
by
african-americans.
C
You
know
as
much
as
the
projects
are
attractive
and
in
their
neighborhoods
that
people
thought
were
a
little
bit
concerned
that
there
was
going
to
be
gentrification.
We
have
less
than
two
percent
non-minority
people
living
in
our
communities
and
that's
that's
unbelievable,
but
because
they
see
me
as
the
owner,
they
knew
black
contractors
who
were
involved.
It
was
socialized
within
their
community.
Our
marketing
is,
is
focused
on
who's
in
that
neighborhood,
those
those
institutions
that
are
advocates
of
the
development.
C
You
know
non-profits,
who
have
been
advocates
of
making
sure
the
neighborhood
staged
at
the
neighborhood
level.
Those
things
all
matter.
It's
not
one
straw,
that's
important!
It's
all
of
them.
You
have
to
really
assemble
the
entire
team
to
really
make
it
possible.
So
I
don't
take
any
credit
for
the
success
we've
had.
It's
really
been
the
participation
of
the
political
officials,
the
non-profit
community,
the
the
social
agencies
and
everybody
at
the
table.
Who've
been
involved
in
making
these
things
possible,
but
it's
hard
work
on
everybody's
part.
D
Yeah,
so
I
would
say
that
it
is
hard
work
and
it
takes
a
lot
of
intentionality
from
the
developer
and
deep
commitment
from
the
developer
to
enforce
minority
participation
on
numbers
with
contractors
and
be
straight
up.
Most
folks
are
not
going
to
go
through
it
they're.
Just
not
it's
it's
it's
a
in
the
weeds
kind
of
job.
It's
a
did.
You
unbundle,
what
did
you
unbundle?
What
did
you
ask
them
to
bid
on
okay
when
they
emailed
you
did?
Did
you
tell
them
it
had
to
be?
D
D
The
first
thing
I
would
say
is
we
need
to
do
some
deep
dive
research
to
understand
what
the
barriers
are:
psychological
barriers
and
real
barriers
around
folks
responding
to
opportunity,
and
we
need
to
make
sure
that
there's
sufficient
technical
capacity
to
help
people
respond
to
opportunity,
because,
because
folks
have
been
locked
out
for
so
long
here
in
this
region,
they
don't
even
believe
it.
When
you
tell
them,
when
you
tell
people,
I
got
all
the
control
and
I'm
gonna
make
sure
you
get
a
job.
I
was
like,
I'm
not
gonna.
Do
that.
D
I
don't
believe
it
right,
because
it's
been
no,
no,
no!
No!
No!
For
most
of
their
time
doing
this
work
in
pittsburgh
right
there
might
be
a
yes
here,
a
yes
there,
and
so
you
got
you
got
that
as
a
real
issue.
Right
and
then
you
have
the
reality
of
people.
Don't
have
enough
practice,
they
don't
have
enough
practice
responding.
D
They
don't
have
all
of
the
tools,
the
bidding
tools
and
all
of
those
things,
and
there
are
some
programs
that
work
on
that.
Like
riverside
center
for
innovation,
we've
been
working
with
another
organization
called
catapult
to
help.
D
Prepare
to
help
people
prepare
their
their
bids
and
their
responses,
but
you
you
got
to
believe
that
those
things
will
get
you
there,
because
otherwise,
the
question
for
an
entrepreneur-
and
I
know
well-
is:
should
I
go
for
that
five
hundred
thousand
dollar
project,
or
should
I
just
do
these
three
homes
and
have
three
hundred
thousand
dollars
right?
D
It's
a
different
kind
of
job,
convincing
folks
that
that
that
there's
that
there's
opportunity
and
so
and
that
is
going
to
be
sustained.
So
I
would
say:
there's
some
work
there
for
us
to
do.
You
know
I
see
lots
of
press
releases.
I
see
lots
of
comments.
I
see
lots
of
folks
saying
that
they're
doing
this
work
and-
and
I
can
tell
you
that
if
it's
not
a
developer,
who
is
on
top
of
it,
it's
not
gonna
happen,
it's
never
gonna
happen.
D
We're
never
gonna
meet
the
numbers
if
the
developer
or
the
client
is
not
in
the
contractor's
tale
every
day,
I'm
just
being
straight
up
with
you,
okay,
so
that's
the
first
thing
on
the
contractor
side
on
the
on
the
pre
pre-development
and
the
post
development
side,
I
think
there's
a
lot
more
opportunity
where
we
could
get
more
black
businesses
into
property
management,
more
black
businesses
into
maintenance,
more
black
black
businesses
into
the
social
service,
supportive
services
sector.
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
opportunity
there
that
you
know.
D
I
believe
that
partner
for
work
may
be
exploring
some
of
this,
but
I
certainly
think
that
that's
something
that
we
we
should
be
pushing
along
in
terms
of
the
pre-development
comes
back
to
that
that
pittsburgh
directory,
like
how
many
black
businesses
do
we
have
of
scale
that
can
do
a
project
of
the
kind
of
scale
we're
talking
about.
D
I
mean
it's
some
I
mean,
and
even
if
they
do
do,
they
have
the
financial
capacity
to
float
their
business
for
the
time
periods
that
they
need
to
do
the
kind
of
technical
work
necessary.
In
many
cases
it's
no,
and
so
I
I
would
like
to
see
more
partnering
within
the
mbe
community,
the
small
business
mbes,
not
at
keith's
level
keith,
you
know
keith,
I'm
sure,
does
jb's
at
the
appropriate
level
and
scale
for
his
business.
But
I'm
talking
about
the
folks
who
are
working
on
these
kinds
of
projects.
D
D
If
you
were
working
for
somebody
else,
it's
when
you
start
partnering
with
folks,
where
you're
going
to
start
seeing
some
substantial
change
and
I
and
I
think
we
have
to
have
a
different
kind
of
honest
conversation
in
our
community
about
it,
and
I
think
we
ought
to
lay
out
the
game
plan
for
folks.
Look.
If
you
do
this
job,
you
don't
get
this
job
and
that
job
then
I
think
people
might
start
responding
differently.
C
So
I
mean,
let
me
add
that
I
think
if,
if
I
could,
I
think
rumors
had
a
important
point.
I
think
there
has
to
be
a
level
of
humility
because
I
think
sometimes
our
community,
we,
you
know
you
know
we
like
flossing
and
faking
and
whatever
else,
but
sometimes
I
just
say
I
need
help
and
they
don't
and
they'll
like.
I
said
the
person
that
didn't
submit
the
draw
they
just
never
did
anything
they
just
kept
going
to
work,
and
when
I
talked
to
them
it
was
almost.
C
It
took
me
to
pull
their
teeth
out
to
say
I
don't
know
how
I
can't
help
you.
I
can't
come
into
your
business
unless
you
let
me
in,
and
they
got
to,
let
you
in.
If
they
don't
let
you
in
you
can't
help
them,
but
they
were
going
to
force
me
to
fire
them.
Forced
me
to
make
them
bankrupt
and
I
just
didn't
want
to
see
them
bankrupt.
So
I
had
to
call
them
myself
because
they
weren't
responding
to
my
staff
and
until
I
called
them
did
they
take
it
seriously
enough
to
say.
C
Mr
key,
I
just
don't
know
how
I
don't
know
how
I
said
we'll
get
you
help
we'll
we'll
help
you
put
together
a
pay
app
to
submit
to
us.
So
we
can
pay
you
because
we
gotta
pay.
You
man,
you
can't
succeed
and
stay
in
this
business
long.
Nobody
can
you
missed
two
or
three
draws
you're
gonna
you're,
not
gonna
make
it
and
it
was.
It
was
almost
painful
for
them
to
share
that
with
me,
but
you
know
from
that
point
on.
They
were
just
you
know
a
different
type
of
contractor.
C
They
could
work
without
that
that
cloud
of
fear
that
somebody's
going
to
figure
out
that
they
don't
know
something
that
they
think
they
should
know
well,
quite
frankly,
everybody's
learning
for
the
first
time
when
they
get
into
these
deals,
but
to
marimba's
point,
we
got
to
get
a
group
to
make
a
concerted
effort
to
really
treat
people
as
if
they
don't
know
and
if
they
do
know,
it's
just
reinforcement,
because
if
we
think
they
all
know
they're
not
going
to
say
something
where
we
can
put
a
bid
out
today
for
electrical
contract
for
three
million
dollars,
there
won't
be
a
minority
bidder
in
the
city
just
won't
happen,
but
if
we
break
it
down
to
a
half
a
million
dollar
contract,
that's
now
you
know
multiple
layered
and
they
can
do.
C
You
know
multiple
tiers
of
that.
That's
more
reasonable.
You'll
get
people
bidding
for
half
a
million
dollar
electrical
contract,
not
a
three
million
dollar
electrical
contract
and
so
there's
a
system
in
place
that
if
we
don't
want
minority
participation,
we
can
say
I
did
my
best
and
I
tried
they
just
didn't
did
or
there
are
no
capable
or
or
or
groups
that
are
big
enough.
But
if
we
are
thoughtful
about
it
and
we
really
want
to
make
it
happen,
we
can
make
the
deal
sizeable
enough
to
make
sure
there's
a
participation
rate
that
happens.
C
So
when
people
hear
my
numbers,
it's
not
because
I
have
these
gargantuan
contracts,
it's
a
bunch
of
small
contracts
that
have
been
available
and
I'll
start
them.
In
the
beginning
I
started
in
the
beginning
one.
I
think
it's
important
that
our
community
see
black
people
working
on
the
site
so
when
they
drive
by
you
want
to
see
them
as
soon
as
possible
and
oftentimes
they're
not
doing
the
the
infrastructure
they're
not
doing.
C
You
know
some
of
the
the
framing
they're
doing
the
interior
work
and
sometimes
people
like
I
didn't
see
any
black
people
they're
all
inside
the
building,
putting
down
carpet
and
painting
electrical
and
plumbing
you
just
don't
see
that
as
much
but
to
get
them
involved
early
on
is
great,
because
if
they
can
finish
that,
then
I
can
bring
them
back
up
around
and
come
back
into
the
deal
as
the
deal
progresses.
So
it
is
really
a
major
planning
process
on
the
front
end.
C
E
So
the
only
thing
that
I
would
I
would
add
to
that-
and
I
think
marimba
is
absolutely
right
here.
You
know
after
when
you
don't
have
opportunity,
your
muscles
atrophy
and
so
a
lot
of
times.
E
You
know
she's
doing
the
on
the
ground,
work,
to
identify
these
companies
and
do
a
lot
of
the
the
coaching
and
the
guiding
that
is
necessary
to
help
them
acclimate
to
these
opportunities,
you're
doing
the
same
thing
keith,
and
so
we
are
very
segregated
city.
So
the
thing
that
I
get
all
the
time
is:
well,
we
don't
know
anybody.
We
can't.
We
can't
find
anybody
is
the.
Is
there
a
list?
Where's
the
list,
where's
the
coveted
list,
and
you
know,
and
the
reality
is
that
I
think
that
we've
done
a
very
poor
job
in
pittsburgh.
E
Of
helping
people
understand
the
kinds
of
businesses
that
are
worthy
to
create.
We
do
not
help
folks
understand
the
demand
side
of
what
is
upmc
procuring.
What
is
aga
you're
procuring
we're
not
talking
about
that.
People
are
starting
businesses
that
are
actually
viable
business.
A
lot
of
strong
cult,
cultural,
focused
businesses,
but
we're
not
able
to
really
build
that
economic
base,
because
we
don't
know
what
the
big
players
are
buying
and
we
aren't
strengthening
our
business
community
to
start
those
companies
on
the
supply
side.
E
So
that's
just
a
little
bit
of
what
I
wanted
to
add
and
the
only
other
note
that
I
would
say
about
the
this
hopelessness
that
marimba
talked
about.
You
know
when
I
got
to
the
ura
and
I
and
I
started
to
understand
how
they
were
doing
the
pitch
for
amazon
and
the
amount
of
money
that
went
into
that
commercial
to
convince
jeff
bezos
that
we
are
worthy
of
investment.
Here
I
said
why
can't
we
spend
that
kind
of
money
investing
in
getting
black
people
to
believe
in
all
the
things
that
pittsburgh
is
talking
about?
E
For
that
amount
of
money,
we
could
have
actually
moved
the
middle
to
get
black
people
to
buy
into
that
we're.
This
is
not
just
rhetoric,
we're
not
just
talking
about
this.
We
there's
a
hope
gap.
There's
an
inspiration
gap
and
people
have
to
feel
inspired
and
hopeful
that
they're
really
going
to
put
their
sweat
equity
in
their
investment
because
they
don't
want
gangs
of
people
talking
about
the
cute
talking
points
about
there
being
opportunities
for
black
businesses
and
then,
when
you
go,
they've
already
got
the
deal
bait.
E
You
know,
I
think
we
had
this
meeting
about.
We
need
to
be
talking
about
the
meeting
before
the
meeting
before
the
meeting
so
that
we
have
some
alignment
to
ensure
that
you
know
that
that
black
businesses
are
going
to
get
the
opportunity
that
they
deserve,
and
so
that's
what
I
really
tried
to
do
behind
the
scenes
is
making
sure
that
if
I'm
in
a
room
with
important
people,
black
businesses
are
now
in
a
room
with
important
people
and
I'm
going
to
make
those
connections
so
that
people
get
on
a
first-name
basis.
E
B
If
I
can
be,
I've
listened
a
little
bit
to
stuff
they're
talking
about
on
the
hill
district
and
we're
excited
about
what's
going
on
at
7
avenue.
If
I
can
be
selfish,
just
a
little
selfish
keith
has
just
recently
finished
and
now
opening
and
people
are
in
the
hamilton
kelly
project,
which
in
many
ways
I
think
has
just
of
all
of
his
development.
I
think
it's
the
best.
You
may
not
think
so,
but
I
it's
been
spectacular.
B
We've
gotten
I've
gotten
more
calls
about
that
than
any
project
we've
done,
but
I
I'm
excited
about
a
potential
project
that
you've
worked
on.
That's
a
block
down
the
street,
which
is
the
homewood
avenue
project,
and
if
you
don't
mind,
if
you
could
just
share
a
little
bit
about
you're
working
with
the
community
group
to
come
up
with
a
vision
of
what
homewood
avenue
could
be.
C
And
I
think
I
think
that
that
is
again
exciting.
For
me,
I
think
the
homework
collaborative
has
given
me
a
sense
of
hope
that
there
is
a
way
to
collaborate
in
a
way
that
is
not
a
not
in
silos.
But
how
do
we
figure
this
thing
out?
Because
I
think
there
are
challenges
to
every
deal
that
you
do
and
figuring
out
how
to
do
it
on
the
front.
End
is
the
hard
part,
but
it's
like
anything
else.
C
You
know
measure
twice
and
cut
once
that's
the
carpenter's
rule
right
and
if
you
measure
four
times
and
you
cut
once
you're,
surely
gonna
be
right
and
so
the
more
we
can
spend
time.
You
know,
even
in
that
precipice
of
discussion
with
the
community,
to
solve
it
and
say
this:
is
the
team
and
we're
going
to
win
together,
and
how
do
we
work
together?
C
There's
not
going
to
be
a
you
know,
a
a
nexus
by
which
we
part
from
one
another
we're
just
going
to
find
a
solution,
we're
going
to
come
to
an
agreement
on
ultimately
everybody's
end
goal.
The
end
goal
is
a
successful
development
that
will
yield
and
give
results
that
we
all
want.
How
do
we
get?
There
is
usually
where
the
differences
come
and
some
of
those
differences
come
by
way
of
people
wanting
to
make
decisions
off
of
your
money,
which
is
a
hard
thing
to
do
right.
C
It's
like
saying,
okay,
let
me
take
your
money
and
make
a
decision
for
you
and
expect
you
to
like
it.
Well,
then,
the
risk
and
exposure
is
all
yours,
but
everybody
else
is
making
decisions
off
of
money
that
they
have
no
risk
in,
and
so
there
is
a
balance
in
that
space
of
how
do
we
work
together?
Because
the
community
has
a
lot
of
risk
as
well
from
their
exposure,
their
advocacy?
They
have
social
risk
involved
in
long-term
sustainability.
C
All
those
things
are
there,
but
we
can't
discount
each
other's
risk.
Nor
can
we,
you
know
not
understand
that
they
exist,
and
so
with
the
homework
collaborative.
You
know
their
vision.
When
we
first
started
the
conversation
was
bigger
than
the
kelly
hamilton
site.
It
was
like
well,
how
do
we,
you
know,
arrange
for
something
that
goes
beyond
that,
and
one
of
the
things
that
came
up
was
again
kind
of
homewoods
main
street
homewood
avenue
right.
C
It
has
some
unique
features
to
it,
and
I
think
it
has
something
that
we
can
build
upon,
but
it
really
is
going
to
take
a
concerted
effort
on
everyone's
part
to
figure
out.
How
does
that
work
and
who's
going
to
be?
You
know
the
people
that
helps
kind
of
support,
those
resources
that
need
to
be
at
the
table.
Those
institutions
like
ccac-
we
have
you,
know
the
bank,
that's
still
there.
You
know
pnc
is
involved,
and
you
have
all
these
anchors
that
are
there,
and
how
do
you
take
those
anchors
and
build
upon
those
resources?
C
The
library
is
an
incredible
library.
You
know
the
park
that's
being
built
now,
there's
just
a
lot
of
things.
That's
going
on
that's
creating
momentum,
and
so
the
conversation
is
is
so
healthy
because
it's
optimistic
everybody
is,
as
a
believer
everybody's
sitting,
back
realizing
that
man
we're
almost
at
the
tipping
point
to
where
we
can
see
the
end
game,
and
I
think
that
makes
a
big
difference.
You
know
the
health
facility
that's
involved
and
so
the
those
meetings
we've
been
at
them,
for
you
know
almost
before
covert.
C
We
were
meeting
literally
every
week,
just
really
building
that
momentum
and
those
things
were
part
of,
I
think,
a
collective
effort
and
having
the
people
there
that
really
are
stakeholders,
not
just
talkers,
but
stakeholders,
I
think,
has
made
a
difference
and
they've
agreed
to
work
together,
even
in
spite
of
their
differences,
so
that
no
one
else
is
kind
of
caught
in
the
middle
of
their
angst
amongst
each
other
as
well.
C
So
I
think
that
has
been
an
unusual
experience
for
me
to
really
see
how
how
it
could
work,
I'm
looking
for
the
results
of
seeing
like,
let's
really
design
this
main
street,
this
commercial
district,
because
a
lot
of
the
residential
piece
is
a
as
an
important
piece,
the
commercial
district
as
marimba
knows,
and
the
amante
knows
on
center
avenue.
Those
are
the
things
that
that
has
to
happen
right.
C
I
think
councilman
said
it
best
when
people
move
in,
they
want
to
know
where
they
can
go
and
get
their
resources
where
they
can
go
and
walk
to
their.
You
know
neighborhood
store
and
have
a
relationship
and
build
your
relationships,
because
those
commercial
districts
is
really
where
communities
are
built.
Residential
housing
builds,
neighborhoods
community
is
built
by
commercial,
commercial
and
community
really
go
together,
because
that's
where
people
commune
right,
they
commune
together.
They
come
to
the
same
pizza
shop.
They
go
to
the
same.
C
You
know
hair
stylist,
and
they
said
at
the
barber
I
said,
live
at
hand
barbershop.
You
probably
didn't
know
that
I
had
a
fro
back
in
the
day,
but
I
used
to
live
at
ham's
barber
shop
right
and
I
went
to
central
baptist
church
and
those
are
the
things
that
made
for
people
knowing
you,
so
they
knew
when
I
walked
in
you
know:
hey
young
key
go
sit
down
I'll
get
you
you
number
three.
A
So
I
also
had
here
at
one
point
in
time
and
but
shout
out
to
big
time
who
gave
my
son
a
fresh
cut
a
little
while
ago
today.
So
I
lived
through
him,
but
with
that
being
said,
we
did
tell
you
all
that
we
were
going
to
try
to
keep
you
for
an
hour.
However,
we've
gone
over
and
I'm
okay
with
that,
but
there's
also
a
lot
that
we
didn't
get
to
that.
I
jotted
down
the
questions
that
I
wanted
to
ask
you
so
being
respectful
of
your
time.
A
We'll
probably
ask
you
back
at
another
point
in
time,
but
before
we
go
away,
I
do
want
to
ask
one
question
to
both
miss
malians
and
director
walker,
and
it's
not
as
much
as
a
question,
but
it
is.
I
want
to
give
you
a
moment
to
highlight
something.
The
hill,
cdc
and
keith
just
talked
about
the
importance
of
commerce
and
the
importance
of
business
development.
The
hill
cdc
has
had
a
program
that
you
all
have
been
actively
working
with,
with
riverside
innovation
and
others
around
business
support
and
small
business
development.
A
And
so
I
would
like
for
you
to
just
briefly
give
some
information
about
that.
How
people
can
contact
you,
how
you
can
assist
them?
And
then
maybe
director
walker,
if
you
could
talk
just
briefly
a
little
bit
about
the
catapult
program
and
how
you
can
foresee
that
participating
and
supporting
the
hill
cdc's
initiative.
D
So,
thank
you
councilman.
So
I,
the
health
dc,
launched
a
number
of
business
programs
some
years
ago,
one
called
bizlab,
which
is
an
incubator
on
our
third
floor
and
with
potential
of
being
expanded,
and
then
the
other
is
bizu
which
does
all
of
our
training.
We
have
gotten
close
to
100
businesses
certified
as
minority
business
enterprises.
We
work
with
the
universities
we
work
with
the
county.
D
We
work
with
chatham
university.
We
work
with
the
university
of
pittsburgh's
institute
for
entrepreneurial
excellence.
Pre-Covet
they
would
come
to
our
office.
Do
that
one-on-one
counseling
people
could
sign
up
for
whatever
time
worked
for
them
through
our
website
and
we
regularly
withhold
cohorts.
So
we
have
developed
cohorts
that
that
focus
on
a
number
of
different
areas.
So,
for
example,
we
have
a
cohort
called
beauty
works
and
this
program
is
focused
on
helping
businesses
that
are
beauty
based
businesses.
D
So
they
get
a
facilitator
and
an
expert
in
that
respective
area
and
they
get
relevant
knowledge.
And
why
do
we
do
beauty
works?
Because
our
market
study
says
that
there
is
huge
market
opportunity
around
beauty-based
businesses
in
the
hill
district?
So
we
try
to
market.
We
try
to
develop
our
programming
in
response
to
market
opportunities.
We
have
a
program
called
hill
builds
and
that
program
is
focused
on
helping
contractors
to
either
start
their
business
or
scale
their
business,
so
they
can
participate
in
the
nearly
two
billion
dollars
worth
of
development
opportunity.
D
That's
going
to
happen
in
the
hill
district
over
the
next
seven
years.
We
we
have
a
number
of
businesses
who
have
graduated,
including
folks,
like
tina
daniels.
She
started
her
business
at
hill
builds
and
now
she's,
you
know
doing
business
with
a
number
of
contractors,
so
shout
out
to
tina
and
shout
out
to
the
other
graduates
of
our
program.
D
So
so,
if
you're
interested
in
getting
the
kind
of
entrepreneurial
support
that
will
scale
your
business,
we're
going
to
be
doing
one
around
food,
so
food-based
businesses,
as
you
all
know-
maybe
you
don't
know,
but
we've
been
thinking
a
lot
about
creating
a
food
district
along
center
avenue.
You
know
I'm
going
to
recognize
the
hillman
foundation
for
supporting
some
of
our
early
seed
work.
We're
also
thinking
about
how
to
create
a
cultural
and
commerce
corridor,
specifically
a
black
cultural
and
commerce
corridor.
D
In
the
hill
district,
and
so
so,
we
really
shape
our
cohorts
around
around
that
kind
of
work.
What
I'm
not
big
on
is
a
lot
of
cohorts
that
I'm
seeing
either
are
run
by
folks
who
do
not
have
the
business
experience
themselves
or
they
are
overly
focused
on
things
like
marketing
right
and,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
to
run
a
business.
You
have
to
be
able
to
handle
your
finances.
You
have
to
be
able
to
handle
your
technology,
your
I.t,
you
have
to
know
how
to
pitch
your
business.
D
You
have
to
know
how
to
respond
so
customer
service.
So
a
business
is
a
very
complex
thing
and
I
and
frankly
I
think
we're
probably
over
subscribed
as
a
provider
space
in
pittsburgh
to
kind
of
the
cohort
space.
I
think
that
we
should
you
know,
because
what
you're
seeing
what
we're
seeing
now
is
like
the
same
people
going
through.
D
You
know
all
of
the
same
business
programs
and
what
we
really
need
to
do,
I
think,
is,
and
what
that
tells
us
is
that
they're
not
getting
what
they
need
when
they
come
through
certain
programs.
When
you
start
seeing
the
same
folks
going
to
the
same
thing,
it
says
something's
missing,
they
may
not
know
what's
missing,
but
something's
missing,
and
so
we
have
taken
it
upon
ourselves
at
the
hill
cdc
to
really
do
a
deeper
dive
around
what's
missing.
D
So
at
any
rate,
we
are
we
we
used
to
do
like
pop-up
shops
and
those
kinds
of
things
we've
gotten
away
from
that
a
little
bit
just
because
we
think
the
sustainability
at
the
end
of
the
day
is
going
to
be
what
endures
us
as
a
community
and
also
helps
us
to
grow
economically
as
a
community,
but
I'm
really
excited
to
continue
serving
entrepreneurs
in
the
hill
district.
If
anybody's
interested
you
can
go
to
hilldistrict.org,
you
can
follow
us
on
facebook,
twitter,
ig,
linkedin
and
sign
up
for
any
of
our
courses.
E
So,
thank
you
for
that
marina.
That
was
very
helpful.
We
are,
you
know,
try.
We
also
try
to
be
a
source
of
information
and
to
make
sure
that
businesses
have
access
to
high
quality
programs
and
opportunities,
particularly
in
neighborhoods
like
the
hill
district.
So,
as
I
think
your
question
for
me
was
really
around
catapult
and
so
catapult
startup,
it's
catapult,
startup
storefront,
and
so
it's
really
a
two-part
program.
So
the
catapult
part
of
the
program
is
really
the
cohort
based
model
with
the
ura
did
so
you
know
we
got
we.
E
It
was
made
very
clear
to
us
by
by
district
9
that
when
larmor
avenue
comes
online,
that
they
want
to
ensure
that
black
businesses
are
ready
and
prepared
to
occupy
those
storefronts,
and
so
the
ura
was
asked
to
design
and
develop
a
program
that
would
start
to
prepare
businesses
for
those
retail
opportunities,
and
so
you
know
tammy
thompson.
I
have
to
give
credit
to
tammy
thompson.
I
you
know
to
really
understand
you
know
she
had
this
vision
and
she
said
you
know:
black
businesses
have
been
kicked
out
of
each
liberty.
E
You
know
we
want
to
figure
out
a
way
to
bring
them
back
and
to
give
people
an
opportunity
one
to
prepare
for
larmor,
but
to
do
it
in
an
environment
that
actually
has
foot
traffic
and
support
these
businesses.
So
we
wrote
we
designed
and
developed
a
program
with
paramount
paramount
pursuits.
E
I
think
that's
what
they're
called
from
beaver
county
and
the
ura
provided
funding
dollars
to
give
these
businesses
high
capacity
consulting
services,
to
focus
not
only
on
marketing
but
the
back
office
systems
that
were
net
that
were
going
to
be
necessary
to
really
grow
and
develop,
and
so
that
was
the
first
part
of
it
was
really
the
cohort
model,
but
the
more
important
thing
was
to
give
them
demonstrable
experience
in
operating
a
retail
space.
You
cannot
sit
somebody
in
a
classroom
and
say
this
is
how
you
run.
E
You
know,
run
a
retail
operation
that
has
to
be
experiential,
and
so
we
needed
a
sense
of
permanence.
We
didn't
want
it
to
be
a
pop-up.
We
wanted
it
to
be
something
that
would
be
long
held,
and
so
we
partnered
with
eldi,
who
did
some
subsidy
on
the
rent
on
an
asset
that
they
owned,
to
provide
this
opportunities
to
these
retailers,
and
then
they
would
scale
up
and
eventually
try
to
get
to
the
market,
or
at
least
what
we
believe.
E
Larmor
avenue
is
going
to
be
when
those
units
come
online
and
so
catapult
has
since
gone
on
to
win
an
international
economic
development
council
award
for
for
being
an
equitable
program,
and
it
was
on
thursday
of
last
week
awarded
one
million
dollars
from
pnc
bank
to
scale
that
program
and
to
think
about
how
to
model
that
across
the
city
of
pittsburgh.
E
So
that
along
these
avenues
were
that
intersect,
that
black
life
or
where
there
is
a,
is
a
promise
of
market
opportunity
and
vibrance
that
we
early
on
put
these
businesses
in
place
so
that
they
can
benefit
from
whatever
market
is
there.
And
so,
if
you
look
at
it's
an
intergenerational
program,
so
we
have
folks
in
the
program
from
17
70
to
14
and
one
of
our
strongest
entrepreneurs
is
a
young
woman
named
jasmir
bates,
who
makes
dog
clothes
that
match
kid
clothes
and
her.
E
You
know
she
had
to
sit
the
business
sense
to
say:
I'm
really
excited
to
be
in
east
liberty,
because
my
target
market
owns
dogs
and
has
little
kids
and
so
for
her.
It's
been
a
real
boon
to
be
there
as
a
young
black
woman,
with
her
mother
running
a
business
and
learning
how
to
be
an
entrepreneur.
So
again,
the
catapult
program
has
been
wildly
successful.
B
A
Now
I'm
going
to
say
very
quickly
and
selfishly
I'm
just
going
to
put
a
plug
that
I'm
looking
to
put
the
next
iteration
of
catapult
within
my
district.
I
want
to
do
so
that
the
hill
cdc's
program
as
they
build
all
those
businesses
they
will
have
a
place
to
go
and
so
that
they
can
eventually
eventually
reach
scale,
so
they
can
get
to
the
lower
hill,
where
keith
is
supposed
to
be
doing
some
development.
So
I
just
put
that
out.
There
say.
B
We
before
we
wrap
things
up,
we
do
have
micah.
Who
is
she
takes?
She
monitors
our
facebook
page
and
our
emails
and
all
that
sort
of
stuff
for
questions
and
participation,
email
micah.
Do
you
have
any
pressing
questions
to
ask
our
our
guest
before
we
call
it
at
night.
F
D
Well,
I'll,
try
to
take
a
swing
at
that
normally
in
communities
like
the
hill
district
homewood
would
be
there
as
well.
The
homewood
is
a
little
closer
to
east
liberty,
which
is
kind
of
like
the
east
end
downtown
area.
D
D
D
They
might
have
like
some
barbecue
joints,
maybe
a
sit
down,
but
not
enough
food
businesses
for
those
neighborhoods
and-
and
I
would
say
finally,
you
would
have
the
the
kind
of
business
kind
of
like
the
cultural
or
creative
enterprises
or
coffee
shops,
those
types
of
places,
third,
spaces
where
people
tend
to
gather
and
just
want
to
congregate,
as
keith
mentioned
earlier,
where
people
come
to
create
community.
D
E
C
Okay
well-
and
it
goes
back
to
my
point-
about
commerce
and
community,
being
you
know,
kind
of
a
an
important
piece
of
the
puzzle.
What
I'm
developing
in
some
of
the
markets
in
manao
is
these
innovation
centers?
These
innovation
centers,
I
think,
are
dynamic
because
they
are
creating
an
economic
opportunity
for
people
not
just
to
learn
and
be
exposed
to
each
other
in
terms
of
the
business
dynamics,
but
they
actually
start
their
business
and
they
almost
in
that
same
business,
they
are
mentored.
C
They
are
exposed,
it's
the
central
location,
because
one
of
the
things
that
makes
it
hard-
and
we
all
know
it.
If
you
do
a
development,
you
know
throughout
the
you
know,
center
avenue
is
a
long
streak.
You
almost
need
clusters
where
people
know-
and
I
know
marimba's
plan-
did
a
great
job
of
you
know
really
delineating
parts
of
the
hill
district
in
the
center
avenue
district
to
kind
of
talk
about
what
would
be.
You
know
very
intentional
in
those
areas
so
that
people
know
where
to
go
for
food.
C
They
know
where
to
go
for
here.
They
know
where
to
go
for
recreation,
whatever
the
case
may
be.
I
think
all
of
our
communities
need
to
have
that
level
of
of
of
focus
so
that
when
people
show
up,
they
know
where
to
go.
They
know
where
businesses
is
discussed.
They
know
whether
it's
the
coffee
shop
or
the
innovation
center.
You
can
go
there
and
you
can
use
access
to
office
space
and
and
and
not
just
work
space
that
is
for
rent,
but
workspace.
That
comes
with
the
resources
that
are
available
in
that
center.
C
So
we're
doing
this
huge
one
that
we're
working
on
in
compton,
california
and
it's
massive,
and
we
have
some
tech
companies
involved
and
some
major
movie
stars
and
so
forth
involved.
But
it's
really
creating
that
that
attraction-
and
I
think
we
all
know
in
our
communities,
part
of
what
happens
and
part
of
what
should
happen
to
the
makeup.
Sustainable
is
bring
back
all
of
our
successful
people.
You
know
from
the
hill
from
home
what
I
know
donaldson's
doing
the
the
recreation
park
in
homewood.
C
I
mean
those
names
matter
to
our
our
neighbors
and
our
residents
when
they
come
together
and
put
their
name
on
those
sort
of
programs.
It
does
kind
of
season
it.
It
changes
the
perception
of
the
program,
it
changes
the
perception
of
the
community,
it
makes
it
seem
safer.
You
feel
good
about
it.
You
know
pits
come
to
homewood
avenue,
and
that
says
a
lot
when
says:
okay,
this
is
a
new
development.
That
pit
has
now
made
a
commitment
with
their
cec
center
to
be
on
on
on
homewood
avenue.
E
So
I
it's
sort
of
hard
to
to
to
build
upon
those
wonderful
answers,
so
I
I
guess
the
only
thing
that
I
would
say
for
me
when
I
think
about
black
life
in
pittsburgh.
You
know,
I
think,
that
one
we
need
to
allow
black
people
and
empower
black
people
to
create
black
places
in
their
own
image
and
that
when
we're
talking
about
quality
of
life,
one
thing
that
we
that
we
don't
have
in
pittsburgh-
we
don't
have
an
audacious
goal
around
what
it
suppo
with
the
black
experience
is
supposed
to
be
in
pittsburgh.
E
You
know
I
live
in
the
hill
district.
There
are
no
real
cultural
amenities
available
to
me
in
my
neighborhood
right
now,
and
so,
if
I
want
that
I've
got
to
live,
I
got
to
move
to
another
neighborhood.
That
may
not
have
the
strong
ties
and
the
strong
familiarity
that
I
that
I
you
know
that
I
enjoy
here,
and
so
I
think
part
of
it
is
just
finding
a
way
to
allow
responsible,
well-calibrated
development
to
happen
in
such
a
way
that
black
people
feel
comfortable
in
our
own
spaces.
E
They
are
high
quality,
they
meet
our
needs
and
that
you
know
we
have
the
sense
of
neighborhood
health
and
I
think
that
you're
absolutely
right,
keith,
that
the
intersection
of
commerce
and
community
that
doesn't
need
to
be
tensioned.
There
doesn't
need
to
be
tension
between
those
two
things.
I
think
those
things
are
meant
to
work
in
harmony,
and
so
one
of
the
things
that
you
know
that
I'm
hopeful
to
see
on
center
avenue
is
that
we're
going
to
re-knit
the
cultural
fabric
while
we're
bringing
the
buildings
back
to
productive
use.
E
The
point
is
not
the
building.
The
point
is
the
people,
and
so
you
know
you
had
you
have
to
create
a
sense
of
belonging
and
community
and
we
should
be
using
our
resources
to
do
that
and
allowing
black
people
to
have
authorship
over
how
that
takes
shape
and
what
that
means
agnostic
of
income.
It
should
be
an
income,
and
so
I
don't
say
mixed
income.
E
I
say
income
inclusive,
because
I
know
you
know
really
really
poor
people
and
really
really
wealthy
people,
and
we
can
all
sit
in
a
room
and
our
money
is
not
the
thing
on
the
table.
Our
blackness,
our
common
experience,
is
what
comes
to
the
forefront
and
I
think
we
need
that
in
third
places,
within
our
neighborhoods
to
really
get
to
a
good
quality
of
life
that
is
amenity,
rich.
A
With
that
being
said,
we
do
have
to
wrap
up
our
show
for
this
evening.
I
want
to
thank
you
all
truly.
This
was
a
very
enlightening
conversation
for
me,
as
I've
already
mentioned,
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
you
all
mentioned
that
I
wish
we
had
time
to
get
to
that.
We
just
didn't,
but
we
are
out
of
today's
time
for
the
show.
A
A
I
just
do
want
to
point
out
that
miss
malians
mentioned
that
we
have
to
be
very
intentional
and
unabashed
and
our
willingness
to
create
communities
of
communities
of
color,
black
communities
for
black
people
and
director
walker
just
mentioned
empowering
black
people
to
create
places
in
their
own
image,
and
I
just
want
you
to
understand
that
myself
remember
burgess.
B
I
want
to
thank,
I
want
to
thank
all
of
you
for
watching
and
participating
in
this
town
hall
meeting.
Remember
you
can
watch
this
show
normally
on
facebook,
the
city's
youtube
channel
or
the
city's
cable
channel,
a
new
meeting
will
occur
every
wednesday
in
august
next
week.
Next
week's
meeting
will
be
focused
on
block
employment
and
entrepreneurship.