City of Bloomington, Indiana City Council, 10 Apr 2019

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From YouTube: Bloomington City Council April 10, 2019

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Agenda, Committee of the Whole Memo, Packet : https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=4470

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This is the city of bloomington common council committee, the whole meeting for wednesday.

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April 10th 2019 and we have a quorum healthy quorum here, and we have two items tonight on our agenda on our committee agenda. Ordinance.

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1909 to amend title 15 of the bloomington missile code entitled vehicles in traffic.

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Amending changes, 15.0 for definitions, fifteen point, five, six, bicycle skateboards and other foot propelled vehicles.

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15.6 million traffic rules, 15.6 for traffic violations schedule and adding a new chapter. Fifteen point: five: eight.

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Motorized scooters and shared used motorized scooters to provide for regulations governing motorized scooters.

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Shared youths, motorized scooters and shared used motorized scooter operators. The second item.

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Appropriations ordinance 19-0, two to specifically appropriate to specially appropriate from the general fund.

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Parks general fund, local road and street fund motor vehicle highway fund risk management fund, housing development fund and vehicle replacement fund.

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Expenditures, not., otherwise appropriated appropriating a portion of the amount of funds reverted to various city funds at the end of 2018 for unmet needs in.

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2019 with that, we're ready for our first item ordinance.

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1909 to amend title 15 of the bloomington missile code and how to vehicles in traffic- and I think we have several members of the.

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Administration here to assist us with this item, who would like to go first, we have.

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Michael, worker of city, attorney. america, the carmichael director of community engagement., adam wastin, strikes, probably works.

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Mike deke off police, chief and beth rosenberger planning services manager.

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I'd be happy to go first good evening., I'm mary, katherine carmichael, public engagement director for the city of bloomington office of the mayor.

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I'll keep my comments brief, as we have a lot of ground to cover this evening and.

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Many many members of the public interested in comment hot topic spring continues with.

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Ordinance 1909 to amend title 15 of the bloomington municipal code governing.

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Regulations governing shared used, motorized scooters and shared-use motorized scooter operators. The genesis of this ordinance began last fall with the surprise.

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Introduction of motorized scooters for rent in bloomington, like.

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Municipalities across the nation bloomington experienced the deployment of hundreds of scooters to our streets, sidewalks and trails.

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Without warning or an opportunity to prepare you'll recall that shared used, motorized vehicle operators, burdened line.

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We're the first to arrive and spin will be arriving soon.

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Immediately, following the arrival of shared used, motorized scooters, the city set about placing some rules and limitations on these scooters.

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Which resulted in temporary interim operating agreements, while this ordinance was drafted?.

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Now, with several months of experience, research and surveying later.

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We are before you with what we believe to be a good start on by popular demand, shared use of scooter.

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Regulations, this proposed ordinance was crafted collaboratively with council and staff.

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Input and thank you, councilmember boland, for representing this body?.

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That group also included a representatives from the legal department, planning and transportation public works.

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Economic and sustainable development, the bloomington police department, housing and neighborhood development and the office of the mayor.

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Hundreds of hours of research and learning have gone into the document you have before you.

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Councilmember boland and staff examined considered and in some cases borrowed from dozens of.

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Cities regulatory models, including los angeles,, san francisco, oakland detroit,, memphis,, nashville,.

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Indianapolis, houston, miami phoenix and more.

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We also studied best practices on scooter regulations published by the national association of city transportation, officials and the international.

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Municipal lawyers association, we spoke with and received feedback from the bicycle and pedestrian.

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Commission, the council and community accessibility, the board of public works, health care providers, business operators, scooter companies.

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Indiana university officials and neighborhood representatives.

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Thank you to each of these groups and vigils who work together to produce this document.

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Many of them are present this evening to comment or answer your questions.. I.

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Especially want to thank the thousands of community members literally.

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Who have weighed in on this topic via one or more of the three public surveys?.

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We conducted those surveys result. those survey results are available on our website. If you would like to check them out.

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We also have heard from residents via telephone.

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Emails letters and at various meetings.

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That, having said been said, there is no doubt that for some this proposed ordinance.

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Will go too far and for others it will not go far enough.

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The feedback we've received indicates some polarization on the topic of sewers.

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Which I'm sure it comes as no surprise to each of you who have been hearing from your constituents.

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Shared-Use, electric scooters are a new phenomenon across the nation and each community, with scooters, has had to make difficult.

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Decisions about what the deployment will look like and feel like in each of their communities.

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That is the position in which each of you find yourselves tonight.

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The ordinance was crafted with multiple goals in mind, including.

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Maintaining and promoting public safety, while integrating this new mode of transportation into our public mobility options.

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Maintaining the right-of-way in a responsible, accessible fashion that is sensitive to a da related and other mobility challenges.

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Providing the framework for scooter operators to pay the costs associated with.

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Scooter policy enforcement acknowledging and preparing for this constantly evolving industry that will mandate our need to be nimble and.

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Adjust as the scooter operations evolve in shape, we fall and change.

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Find a way to make this mobility option available to as many members of our community as are interested, including those with limited finances.

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Make the business model as transparent as possible so that we have good information.

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Good data going forward about how best to manage our right-of-way in light of arrival of shared view, scooters.

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Given the city giving the city the tools to hold scooter companies accountable, so that we can ensure that they are operating, has.

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Responsible partners within our community and.

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Considering all input and points of view, both external and internal, related to shared used, motorized scooters.

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There is no question that the introduction of shared use- motorized scooters- has changed the mobility seen in bloomington.

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Today we are considering scooters soon., it may be hover boards or driverless vehicles, as with all of life.

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The only thing we can be sure of is that change will occur and that we will be called upon to manage it, manage it.

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We don't promote this ordinance as a be-all, end-all solution to the issues that have arisen as a result of this new form of mobility.

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However,, we do expect this ordinance to set the groundwork for sound public policy.

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That allows for motorized scooter rental, while not unduly, threatening or inconveniencing the community.

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Thank you, and I'd now like to introduce city attorney mike rowe for an overview of the ordinance.. I appreciate your attention.

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Thank you, miss carmichael.

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Thanks mary catherine thank you, councilmembers michael rooker city attorney for the city of bloomington.

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We have presented to you tonight proposed ordinance.

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1909, which governs as mary catherine said, motorized scooters.. Now my portion here is going to be a lot more boring than hers.

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We're gonna get down into the nuts and bolts and the meat and potatoes of this.

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So, let's just jump right into it, so the first question that comes up is what jurisdiction does a city have to.

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Regulate these businesses in the first place, and there are a couple of reasons that.

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Local regulations are appropriate for shared use, motorized scooters first off.

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Anytime, anybody is conducting commerce in the public right-of-way.

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Cities have a responsibility to take a role in managing that commerce and we do that in all sorts of contexts already.

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We regulate food trucks, taxicabs velo, cabs, push carts, newsracks.

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Of course, if you're a restaurant owner- and you want to put an encroachment into the public right of way,.

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We regulate that as well. If you wanted to set up a stand outside of the showers complex on the sidewalk tonight,.

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And so your wares you'd have to get permission to do that. First, so public.

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Entities like scooter companies that use the public right-of-way are, of course no different and again, in addition to commerce.

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We have a role in regulating and ensuring the safe passage of members of the public in our right-of-way.

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So that means we have to take into account: pedestrians vehicles, bicycles, scooters and all manner of other conveyance.

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--Is that want to use the public, right-of-way. and again,. This is nothing new for the council, right? you've established regulations governing transportation.

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That's quite similar to motorized scooters, including bicycles, skateboards,.

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Non motorized, scooters and other small motorized conveyances.

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So that's how we get to regulation now before we jump into the actual.

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Regulations themselves.: we should establish a couple of definitions. First off motorized scooters are defined and.

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For the purposes of this ordinance, motorized scooters and shared use, motorized scooters are substantially identical to find a.

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Substantially identical ii, excuse, me,, a motorized scooter is a conveyance or a device propelled by a motor. that doesn't have a seat.

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But that has two or more wheels in contact with the ground and has a floorboard for the user to stand upon now, a shared use, motorized scooter. That term is subsumed.

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A motorized scooter and all that means is a motorized scooter.. That's held out for rent by the public.

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Now, what we don't mean by motorized scooter is a device. That's used to aid, a person with a disability.

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So not a motorized wheelchair., we don't mean bicycles or motorized bicycles and we certainly don't mean coasters, which are.

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Skateboards or non motorized scooters or rollerskates, and that is a defined term in the city code.

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A couple of other definitions in the ordinance shared-use motorized scooter operator that I'm not going to read that long definition,. But that essentially means.

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Motorized scooter company, so we have to in town right now, bird in line and.

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Spin has now signed an interim operating agreement with the city and we do anticipate that they will be arriving in the near term.

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And then the final defined term is the dismount zone.. This is a zone.

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That was previously identified by the city council in.

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Previous ordinances related to bicycles, the dismount zone is an area of downtown where bicycles and similar devices are not permitted on sidewalks.

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Now some people may not know this, but the general rule in bloomington is that you can ride a bicycle or a skateboard or a scooter on a sidewalk.

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There are, however, a few blocks where you can't do that and that's the dismount zone.

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So the dismount zone covers the streets that are indicated on the screen.

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4Th street from indiana to to grant so that's in front of all those beautiful restaurants that I like to go to for lunch.

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Kirkwood avenue from indiana to morton street so from the sample gates down to the b line, six street and two blocks just from walnut over to morton, basically to the b line and then walnut street and college avenue.

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Along the square and then one block north and south of the square in that direction,.

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Okay,, so what are we regulating with ordinance? 19 point?? Oh 9,.

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We are regulating a few things number one.

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We establish rules on licensing, so companies that want to use the public right away to conduct their business have to get a.

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License from the board of public works, ordinance proposed ordinance, 1909 also regulates parking, proposes, regulating parking of shared use, motorized scooters and other motorized scooters. The ordinance also,, of course,.

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Regulates use for all motorized scooters, including shared use, motorized scooter.

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The ordinance 1909 also proposes some safety requirements for shared use. Motorized scooters that imposes some data.

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Transmission requirements so that the city can get some good information about how these companies are operating.

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It imposes some public outreach and public education.

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Requirements on scooter companies, it also establishes some affordability requirements.

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So that shared use, motorized scooters can be available to all members of our community.

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And then, of course, as with all ordinances,, there is an enforcement provision., so that violators can be penalized to encourage compliance.

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So what does ordinance 19-0 9? So the first section is on licensing any company that wants to.

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Operate as a shared use, motorized scooter operators- so that's a scooter company has to get a license from the board of public works.

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The licenses are good for one year and they meant they must be renewed annually and and in.

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Establishing licenses the board has delegated a handful of a couple of a couple of pieces of authority. First.

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They can establish limits on the number of scooters that assured use motorized scooter operator may deploy and second.

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The board is required to establish fees that are going to be charged back to to scooter companies.

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Now those fees under state law have to be reasonably related to the administrative.

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Administrative cost of regulating shared use, motorized scooters.

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So the city has to try to take stock of what it's going to cost.

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To make sure that the the scooter companies are complying with the rules and the fees have to have to be related to those.

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Expenses, some of the expenses we know we're going to see and regulating these devices are, of course, enforcement.

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So folks are gonna have to make sure that these scooters are parked and located correctly.

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And then also we're gonna have to have law enforcement folks who regulate their use,. Of course,.

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They're gonna be fees for infrastructure as well, so not just infrastructure improvement like perhaps additional bicycle lanes,, but if we're gonna do parking in particular ways like painted boxes.

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We're gonna have to designate those boxes by painting them and maintaining them, probably putting up some bollards or delineators.

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And then also putting some bicycle loops within those painted boxes as well.

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So their expenses associated with all of those things and then, of course, if we're going to be converting.

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Potentially, some downtown metered parking spaces into painted boxes for scooter parking.

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We're going to want to recoup the lost revenue from metered spaces in the form of licensing fees charged back to the scooter companies.

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And then of course,, there are always those little clerical expenses around the side around on the side associated with.

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License application processing potentially participating in some of the public outreach.

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Meetings as well by city staff., so those are the expenses we anticipate.

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Under ordinance proposed ordinance 1909, the license application to the board of public works has to contain at least the following information.

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The maximum number of scooters, the company plans to deploy.

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Descriptions and pictures of the scooters that will be deployed a schedule of rates and charges that the company will charge the public.

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Detailed staffing and operational plans, including local staffing plans, so that we know.

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How many folks are gonna be around bloomington to help out with whatever service needs are required?.

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Maps depicting the company's proposed service area a.

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24-Hour customer service number that has to be staffed by the company.

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We want to see all the plans for the public outreach outreach programs that are required by ordinance.

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1909 and then, of course, what we lawyers call risk transfer, which means indemnification and insurance language to protects taxpayers from liability in the event that there's a claim.

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Related to scooter use.

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Okay,, so that's the basic licensing regime.

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And, of course, for mince 1909 also discusses parking now,. This is quite possibly the stickiest part of the ordinance.

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Just as a threshold matter, for the most part, these parking regulations apply to.

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Both motorized scooters that are privately owned and shared use, motorized scooters.

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There are in the regime that's set up by proposed ordinance.

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1909 to basic sets of rules., there are those rules that apply in the dismount zone and then those rules that apply everywhere else.

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So again,, what is the dismount zone? It's that previously established area where bicycles and coasters can't be used on the sidewalk.

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They must be used in the road or in a bicycle lane, or you have to dismount when you enter the dismount zone.

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And again, where is the dismount zone we discussed this already, but for street kirkwood, sixth and then north and south? We have.

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Walnut street and college avenue in the most populated parts. I live downtown.

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So what are the rules in the dismount? Some will get to everywhere else in a second.

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But in the dismount zone parking is limited. You can't park on.

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Sidewalks in the dismount zone, except at bicycle, racks.

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So you can bike park, it bicycle racks anywhere other than that parking is permitted only within.

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Designated painted boxes that will be painted on the street.

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And this is a nice tidy way to say: look if you're gonna operate, scooters.

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Keep them in the street in this area park them in the street, operate them in the street., don't put them on the sidewalk.

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We don't want them in the dismount sewn on the sidewalk at all.

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What are painted boxes so that's another question as well.: these are on street areas for parking, scooters or bicycles.

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We're gonna make them available or the idea is to make them available for either scooters or bikes.

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And now, where are we gonna put these painted boxes?

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we've been looking at a lot of areas and we're gonna continue to have conversations about it.

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One place where they will almost certainly go is in areas where we currently have designated bike share.

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Unfortunately, our bike share program, which is done through pace or zag store, is going away in the next few weeks.

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And we have a number of on-street bike short bike share areas that are going to be converted as a result of it.

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So that's unfortunate,, but it does make. It does make some space available for scooters.

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I think we have four of those downtown if I've counted them right, one at morton and.

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Sixth street one on sixth street right on the square there in the middle of the block.

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Then one next to people's park, undone and another on street parking area.

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I think that fourth street and done right there in the in the dismount zone.

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So so those will be prime candidates for repurposing. In addition,.

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There are 12 to 14 meter spaces that staff has identified at the moment for possible conversion from on street metered parking.

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To painted boxes so we're gonna, look at that and then of course, we've also identified some yellow curb areas for use now. Yellow curb areas are areas.

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Where you can't park either, because you're gonna create a sight hazard by placing a vehicle too close to an intersection or.

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Because the space just isn't big enough to safely fit a vehicle and those are sort of what we would call some of the lower.

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Hanging fruit here, where you can put scooters without creating any problems from an engineering perspective.

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So we've identified some of those spaces in the dismount zone as well.

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Of course, further conversation on where further conversations on where we're going to locate painted boxes are gonna be had.

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With downtown businesses with the parking commission with bike and ped.

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And, of course, with the board of public works,, which, at the end of the day, has ultimate authority over how the right-of-way is managed.

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So, just to give you a sense about what painted boxes. Look like here's an example of a lime, access bikes and a painted box.. This one's on a sidewalk.

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Here's some painted boxes. this one ramps down to the road.. This is designated scooter parking again.

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So you can sort of see what this looks like and then here's an example of on street parking.. So if you're gonna do this in an area,, this is an obvious area.

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Where you, you couldn't put a car?, but it's it's an area, that's disused and would otherwise sort of be perfect for either bike share or scooter share parking.

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Okay,, so that's the dismount zone painted boxes or bike racks., that's the rule in the dismount zone, under the proposed ordinance.

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What do you do outside of the dismount zone?, so outside the dismount zone, parking is permitted on sidewalks.

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However, there are some serious restrictions on that scooters have to be parked if they're parked on the sidewalk outside the dismount zone, to leave a clear straight pathway, at least.

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54 inches wide and that's a nice tidy number, because it's that's the a da's requirement for.

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Keeping space on the sidewalk and it's also a requirement- that's repeated in the city code in a number of places, including.

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Encroachments on the sidewalk, as scooters have to be parked up upright, so they don't take up as much space.

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Of course, when they're on their side, they take up a lot more of the right away than when they're parked up.

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Right and then scooters may never be parked so as to impede any number of facilities,. You can see the list there. That includes parking spaces, including parking access, aisles.

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Which are those spaces next to accessible parking spaces? Loading zones curb ramps, any public transportation, infrastructure?.

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Driveways, building entrances and exits commercial window displays any emergency facilities like fire, hydrants or utility poles, or call boxes?.

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And we don't want them impeding parking meters, street furniture or newsracks either.. So those are all.

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Prohibited ways to park a scooter on the sidewalk under the ordinance.

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There are some additional regulations on parking as well. as I said,. This is a really important part of it.

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So this is a big part of the ordinance, so scooters may never be part so as to impede a da accessibility and again, I think we've captured the main requirements in some of the other sections which are to leave that 54 inch pathway not to block accessible parking spaces and not to block curb ramps.

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But in the event, there's something we've missed or there are some changes in the future.

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This is sort of a catch-all provision, that's included in the ordinance.

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Scooters may also not be parked on unimproved surfaces., so you can't park them on grass.. You have to be parked on asphalt or concrete.

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And they may not be parked within the confines of a special event.

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So we don't want shares shared use, motorized scooters located in within the confines of lotus or beat em.

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Boom or fourth street,, we want those spaces to be reserved just for those special events.

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And then of course,, we don't want them parked in the street or in alleys, and that creates an obvious dangerous hazard for vehicles.

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So that's clearly private other than that parking is generally prohibited on public property.

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However,, there is an exception to that. If one of those entities, one of those boards that controls some of the city's public property.

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Wants to grant an exception, they can do so so for example,. If the redevelopment commission wants to say we're going to designate scooter parking in the trades district.

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They can identify discrete areas of the trades district and designate those as scooter parking same with the board of park. Commissioners, if.

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When the switchyard park is ready for business next year, if they have some areas of the switchyard park that are ideal for scooter parking., they can designate those themselves.

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And then, finally, the ordinance does require shared use of motorized scooter users to take a photograph.

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Demonstrating where they park their scooters at the conclusion of their ride,.

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So this is also already something that some of the scooter companies are requiring.

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But we did want to make sure it's required by all of the scooter companies.

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Finally, enforcement: so what happens when a scooter is not properly located or not properly, parked?.

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And we have a couple of tools available to us to deal with situations like that. First off shared use, motorized scooters may be.

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Relocated, so if they simply need to be moved a couple of feet, the cityís is free under the terms of the ordinance to pick.

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Them up and move them a couple of feet, and then there may be fines as well.

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So an illegally parked scooter will subject the company or the user to a thirty or sixty dollar fine.

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That's consistent with what's what's charged for illegally parked bicycles and other devices, and the fine may be assessed even if we choose to do.

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Relocation and make the right-of-way safe.. If we take a picture, we can still go ahead and assess that fine.

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If it gets bad enough, of course, impoundment is something that is permitted under the ordinance and the impoundment fine is.

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$100 plus ten dollars per day that we have to store a scooter. That is.

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Impounded, if we store that scooter for 180 days and after dispose of it.

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The disposal- fine, is a hundred one hundred and fifty dollars and the reason it's so much is because.

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These devices are powered by lithium ion batteries, and it turns out that those are particularly difficult to get rid of and recycle.

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Okay,, in addition to parking ordinance, 19:09 regulates scooter use and again these regulations are going to largely mirror.

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What you're, familiar with with regard to bicycles and other small motorized devices, and again.

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Just like in parking, these regulations apply to all motorized scooters for the most part, whether they're shared use, motorized scooters or just a privately owned scooter.

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So, where may a scooter generally be used?, it can be used in the roadway. Just like a bicycle.

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It can be used within bicycle lanes and we have proposed an alteration to the section of the city code on bicycle lanes. To suggest that scooters are also permitted there.

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They may be used on sidewalks trails and paths,, but of course not on sidewalks in the dismount zone.

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That's what the proposed ordinance says today.

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There are some additional requirements,, of course, and again these mere very much what we see with bicycles, any users of a.

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Scooter have to yield the right-of-way to pedestrian and must pass.

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Pedestrians at a distance of at least three feet or get off their scooter, and that's again with sidewalks and trails in mind.

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Riders have to give an audible signal, either thing a bell or say on your left when passing a pedestrian who's.

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Traveling in the same direction, again, these are the same requirements for bicycles and.

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When passing an individual with a visual impairment, scooter riders are supposed to get off of their scooters before passing. If they can't pass without startling, inconveniencing or colliding.

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With said person, while riding on a sidewalk near where there's a curb cut and a vehicle may be approaching, for whatever reason.

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From an alley or a driveway or coming out of a parking garage?.

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Scooter users are supposed to slow down to pedestrian speed.

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And again, this is something we already require bikes and it's just being passed on to scooters a.

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New one here is that users are not supposed to operate a motorized scooter while controlling an animal.. So obviously that's been observed.

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And so that requirement is included in the ordinance and then there's also a prohibition on double riding. And if you look around town.

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I think you'll probably observe double riding from time to time and that's where somebody rents a scooter and instead of having their their buddy paid to also rent.

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A scooter they just share the scooter and there are obvious risks associated with that., so the ordinance proposes prohibiting that.

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When you violate these rules depends on what rule you're violating, if you violate a state traffic, rule, you're gonna, be subject to penalties imposed by state laws.

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So if you go the wrong way down a one-way road, you are gonna, get a ticket from an officer who sees you do that.

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And that tickets going to be consistent with, what's required by state law.

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If you run a red light or blow through a traffic,, excuse me a stop sign.

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You're also going to get a ticket and that tickets going to be consistent with what's required under state law.

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Municipal violations, on the other hand, are subject to twenty dollar penalties., just like for violations for.

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Bicycles, skateboards and non motorized scooters.

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So if you're riding in the dismount zone,, it's a twenty dollar ticket or clash a class g traffic violation.

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All right, so, in addition to some requirements on use, there are also some requirements for safety that are imposed on shared use, motorized scooters and their operators.

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First, off scooters may not be rented or used by persons under the age of 18.

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And again,: this is something we're seeing some scooter companies already voluntarily do.

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And then this is perhaps one of the more important ones all scooters have to be governed so that they cannot travel faster than fifteen.

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As per our scooter, operators are required to deploy their equipment that way. Of course, the scooters also have to have a bell, a horn or other signalling device on them, so we can comply with some of the.

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Requirements of safe use near pedestrians and there are requirements for.

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Lights and brakes that are consistent with, what's currently being proposed up at the statehouse.

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And then finally, there are some scooter, some requirements on hours of operations.

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So scooter operators under the ordinance may not hold scooters out for rent between 10:01 p.m. and 559 a.m.

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So there are some risk factors associated with.

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Riding scooters in the darkness and, of course intoxication is more likely as well at that time of night.

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So so that's another reason for those restrictions.

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There are some requirements as well for safety purposes, for items that must be displayed on each scooter.

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First off each scooter has to have a unique identification number.

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Right on it that anybody can read so that they can call the required 24-hour number and say: hey the brakes on scooter x are not working correctly or the lights are not functioning.

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Also,, we want to see the company's website and mobile application information directly on the scooter itself. and then the ordinance also requires users to.

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Excuse me,. The ordinance also requires companies to tell users by putting right on the scooter itself that users.

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Handful of admonitions number one users are required to obey all traffic laws that they're required to yield to pedestrians.

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That they're required to follow proper parking procedures and that they are encouraged to wear helmets.

C

Now helmet use is not mandatory, as you know, in indiana, helmet use is not mandatory for a.

C

Motorcycle, even so they're they're not mandatory under the ordinance for scooter users either.

C

It is strongly encouraged. however,, so.

C

There's also a remote locked, a remote lockdown provision in ordinance, 1909.

C

So shared use, motorized scooters have to remotely lock down any.

C

Scooter that is deemed unsafe to operate or reported unsafe to operate by anyone.

C

So as soon as they get a report that a particular scooter is defective and operable, isn't functioning correctly,.

C

They've got to remotely lock that down, show up within two hours, pick up the scooter and a value, and if the companies aren't willing to do that, and we have to pick it up. we're gonna, impound it and we're gonna find them.

C

Not just we're gonna find them and charge them impoundment fees as well., so.

C

Ordinance 1909 also contains some requirements for reporting data.

C

There are two types of data that are required to be reported under the ordinance, real-time data and then also some periodic monthly reports.

C

All information- that's provided either. Real-Time data or monthly reports has to be scrubbed of any.

C

Personally, identifiable information., we want everything anonymized., we don't want names addresses.

C

Phone numbers certainly don't want any payment information., so we don't want any of that stuff.

C

The scooter companies can keep that, but we do want some real-time data and we want it to comply with. What's.

C

Identified as a national standard, the mobility data specification or mds format.

C

That's an open source format. That's used by cities across the country.

C

I believe it was first established by los angeles and everybody's sort of using that as the the national standard now.

C

Mds provides real-time data about how many scooters are in use where they're located and what their physical condition is.

C

We also want to get some monthly reports. The monthly reports under ordinance 1909 must include.

C

Information about each individual trip, including trip distance duration, cost start and end time and.

C

Start and end location, we also want to know monthly information about scooter accidents, scooter collisions.

C

And we also want some information about any scooters that are removed due to unauthorized scooter parking by the companies.

C

In addition to data sharing requirements, ordinance.

C

1909 also imposes some public outreach requirements. There are four broad public outreach categories and a handful of information that has to be.

C

Shared during each one of these outreach moments: ike., yes, so first off there has to be a bloomington specific notice to first-time users of scooters through the company's mobile.

C

Application and then there also has to be a bloomington specific page on the company's website.

C

And we also ask the companies to do two on the ground safety campaigns per year in bloomington.

C

Now, all of that information, all the information that certain information has to be trans through each of those.

C

Applications or websites or the safety campaigns we want information transmitted about the city's.

C

Local regulations governing scooter use and also governing scooter parking.

C

We want also information transmitted about best practices regarding safe scooter use and then, in addition,.

C

We also want the scooters, the scooter companies to talk about the affordability and accessibility.

C

Requirements that the city imposes on scooter companies.

C

In addition to those public outreach and educate education requirements,.

C

Ordinance 1909 also requires helmet distribution to local users at a local location and at no cost by the scooter companies.

C

So I just mentioned that we want, as part of the public outreach affordability to be talked about.

C

Ordinance 1909 does require scooter companies to provide a price discount in an effort to make scooters more widely available to the community and that.

C

Price discount will take the form in the ordinance of a.

C

50% price discount to any potential users who can demonstrate.

C

Participation in any federal state or local assistance program and that price discount is intended to be applied.

C

To any and all charges associated with renting a shared use, motorized scooter.

C

So an unlocking fee or any sort of time, delineate achar.

C

Jh and, of course, as with many parts of the ordinance, if the board of public works determines that it wants to impose additional.

C

Affordable or accessibility requirements on scooter companies., it can do that through the licensing procedure. That's outlined at the beginning of the ordinance.

C

So finally, we get to enforcement and there are a number of tools that the city has for making sure that scooter companies follow the rules.

C

Of course, there are fines, which we've talked about already: fines for illegal.

C

Use for municipal violations are $20,, of course, for state law violations.

C

Those are gonna be set by state law, fines for illegal parking or $30 or $60, depending on when payment is made and.

C

Then fines assessed against scooter. Companies are generally going to be subject to what we call the general.

C

Penalty provision of the city code that authorizes fines up to.

C

$2,500., so if somebody's operating as a scooter company without first obtaining a license, they're gonna be fined at least.

C

$2,500 per day for doing that, if they're not meeting the other requirements that are imposed for safety., for example,.

C

Not their scooters at an appropriate speed. That's gonna result in a much larger fine.

C

Then there of course, is impoundment as an option.

C

We've talked about this already. Any scooter that presents a public hazard or is parked illegally may be impounded.

C

That entails a hundred-dollar, impoundment, fine, a ten dollar per day; storage, fine and then a.

C

150 dollar disposal: fine, if that becomes necessary, and then finally, maybe the the ultimate penalty for a scooter company that really doesn't want to comply with the local provisions or state law.

C

Is that the board of public works can initiate revocation proceedings,, which would involve a hearing so.

C

That's sort of the broad contours of the ordinance itself.. We have a number of folks here to answer questions.

C

We have adam wastin, director of public works., mike d. cough,, who is the police chief, alex crowley from economic and.

C

Sustainable. Development. and, of course, mary katherine, who you heard from earlier, so.

C

And beth rosenberger from pmt as well.. If you have questions related to the planning and transportation.

A

Thank you, mr. rooker, so there are no other.

A

Initial comments from any other members of the administration.

A

Not at this time, now, okay,, so thank you very much.. Mr. roker., we'll move to council member of questions right now.

D

D

You mentioned in your introduction that a vendor setting up a.

D

Business in front of city hall would need permission, apply for a permit and so forth,, but these companies never.

D

Never sought permission, they simply.

D

Dumped their their product on on bloomington on the community.

D

I wondered if we could have.

D

Maybe some response from the representatives of the company in terms of their business model.

D

Is this the in other words, is this a proper way of introducing your product?.

C

Certainly, if one of them wants to speak, that's fine,. I would mention just very briefly that.

C

Burden line did sort of show up last september at spin, who has been working with us to get the agree.

C

Executed has been very clear that they want to have everything in place before they start deploying scooters.

D

Thank you, mr. van deventer,, do you wanted to address that and do we have a representative for bird?.

D

Here this evening, could they speak to??

D

There is no representative from burt., they didn't choose, were they invited?.

D

But they chose not to come, okay, thanks.

E

Last september, when the scooter shows., I'm sorry., I'm david mean even I'm the operations manager for al I'm here in bloomington.

E

I was not working for the company last september whenever the launch occurred in this capacity.

E

I was as a charger, but I can't speak to that.. I know that.

E

We are trying to work more with cities in advance.

E

As we continue to launch other markets and stuff like that., so.

E

I feel like the company's kind of learned their lesson and are trying to do better in the future.

D

But this is, this: is standard operating procedure.? Isn't it using this lyman byrd?.

D

Essentially, they they simply drop the product and then and then things are settled later.

D

We have to catch up in terms of regulation instead of negotiate. It be better to negotiate with us first before.

D

Simply dropping the product on a community. absolutely,, okay,.

E

It's not a standard operating procedure that I know of. but, like I said, I'm not privy to all this stuff.

E

So I understand. okay. thank you.. Sorry.

A

F

Have a question and anyone can hop up and answer it from the.

F

Administration- and I hope that it's not read as and I'm sure you won't after this meeting, read it as such.

F

My opinion on the matter, but I think it it's an important question to start with, which is why not just ban the motorized scooters.

F

And in total, I mean, let's, let's are there benefits? Are there reasons for just saying we don't want these at all.

G

Hi alex crowley,, I'm director of economic, sustainable. Development.- it's a good question.. Some cities have actually done it.. I.

G

Think I think it's the administration's position that.

G

This kind of disruptive technology can be really jarring at first and and it certainly can cause the city to put up the wall,. But.

G

The future of micro, mobility of.

G

Mobility generally will be a little bumpy, but that things like scooters- and you know bike- share.

G

They're all part of a fabric of mobility options that hopefully work together to.

G

Reduce the reliance on single occupancy vehicle use.

G

My personal experience is you know,. I can use a scooter to get to a bus. alright,, so they all work together.

F

Mr. chair,, may I ask one more short question before moving on and then I'll reserve the rest of mine for later.

F

Yeah,, but before you ask that,, would you mind if I ask?.

A

Ms. rosenberger to address because she's the transportation. oh, yes expert here to answer your question. absolutely.

A

From a transportation staff perspective.

H

Okay, beth rosenberger playing an in transportation department.

H

I actually would mimic what alex said. I think transportation and the landscape of transportation is changing a lot.

H

We're going to continue to see changes, but as a city, we have a lot of goals around reducing greenhouse gas emissions and reducing single occupancy vehicle use. So scooters.

H

Have the potential to be one of the solutions among several, and I don't think there's only one thing that will get us there as a community.

H

To make those reductions, thank you now,. You may proceed with the next question sure I have several but I'll just use one for now and.

F

It'll back up to the slide about the definitions.

F

Where are these new definitions or are they definitions that were already codified?.

C

These are new definitions,, so these are definitions that are being added to title 15.

C

Because they were not there before so sort of the way we had done regulations is the definition of bicycle included.

C

Sort of a catch-all that said similar motorized devices are also defined as a bicycle. That really wasn't clear and created a lot of confusion.

C

So we wanted to be clear that this is what we mean by scooter and that it doesn't mean bicycle.

F

Thank you., I do what a follow up., I'm sorry.. I know I said it wasn't, but.

F

Is the part about neither term includes in the code, because I do understand that we've been trying to move away from.

F

Person with a disability language- and I didn't that- would be actually codified or for.

C

That that language is actually codified, but if there is a preferred way to propose to be right,, that's correct.

C

And I don't I'd have to take. Let me take a quick look to see if that specific phrase is used.

C

Give me a moment., but we do say we don't mean particular particular terms, right?.

F

I just you know,, maybe for next time it comes back, would.

F

Mention that that's not a term that I don't think we're wanting to use.

F

Any longer,, okay, thank you., okay,.

A

Councilmember sandburg,, I think, was next.

I

With respect to now, having three companies.

I

Competing in the market do we have an idea of capacity how much the market could be possibly saturated with these scooters when it comes to setting the caps?.

I

Do we now know what a reasonable cap would be now that we're gonna have three companies in the pool.

B

So we do think that that's going to be a market driven solution., we don't know what that is right now.

B

Based on the information, a snapshot that we were given recently, we.

B

Understand that they're in the neighborhood of 500 scooters operating right now, that's between two companies.

B

What the ultimate sweet spot.

B

For the companies involved is going to land at, we don't really know yet.

B

You know,, we had a short warm season before it got cold.

B

I think that both scooter companies learned quite a lot during that period.

B

And then we're going to have another brief period before school lets out of warm weather and kind of the.

B

Maximum number of potential customers, and then I understand that they are.

B

Flexible and nimble enough that they'll dial back the number of scooters available because they simply won't have when school is out.

B

They simply won't have the the number of customers to support a greater deployment.

I

And again, my question is concerning, if we're already having issues with blocked, sidewalks and a dea.

I

Compliance, the more we have, the more problems that's going to cost, but is this.

I

Profitable for these three companies now in competition, if they're going to have less scooters on you know in operation.

I

That's a very reasonable question.

B

It's a great question is when we're wondering the answer to also,. You know.

B

I can't emphasize enough that we're all on a giant learning curve with this.

B

This is, this is new for all of us.. I would say that again. I do know they have their nimble enough to it,. Maybe.

B

Instead of 250 and 250 it's you know.

B

175, you know adding up to hit that same number, but just fewer per company or they come in and they decide. You know.

B

What bloomington's not a big enough market?, it's not worth our time and they may disappear.. So I again, I don't have a crystal ball.

B

I I would really wish I had the answer to those questions.

I

Thank you.. I have more questions about pass for now. okay, was it first councillor sims then councillor mr. bond?.

J

Pardon me I misunderstood., oh.

J

You want me to go okay, we're going so. Do you anticipate?

J

having your officers, stop people who drive too close to walkers and who.

J

Drive carelessly and run out into the street., and is it a what kind of offence is that?.

J

If you run a stop sign from a sidewalk like you're riding on a sidewalk, and you run a stop sign.

J

Is that a local offence or is that?.

J

Actually running a stop sign so mike geek off police chief for city of limited.

K

So to answer her last question: the statute would apply if you're in the roadway running a stop sign not from a sidewalk.

K

So the sidewalk offence could be a local.

J

Society not a special., did you just zoom into the intersection and where there's a stop sign that that's local? That's not.

J

Exactly wow, as to your other questions, there, you know,, there are only.

K

Violations can only be enforced if an officer witnesses, something and so.

K

You know having an average of eight to ten officers patrolling the entire city. We will do our best to enforce it.

K

But we cannot be everywhere watching every scooter., so there will be violations that will be missed.

K

But that's that goes along with every type of traffic violation.

K

So what if there was someone that worked for public works and could observe people breaking rules and.

J

Reporting them to police., okay, a witness. it has to it, has to be witnessed by a police officer.. So if somebody hits a pedestrian.

J

Drives off and the guy who's kind of watching him follows him and sees him and.

J

Reports that he saw him hit a pedestrian and drive off can't do anything, because you know.

K

See, I'm not saying that what I'm saying is they a.

K

Citizen could not say I witnessed him run a stop sign right in the ticket in that instance, where someone is actually.

K

Struck, that is something that we can still investigate, right and.

K

And take some kind of action, probably, but if the city hired someone to work for public works to overseas scooter.

J

Violations could they then report, I mean they could do education,, but they could also.

J

Report, bad parking,, they could report people who are driving.

J

Unsafely, they could report violations to police and couldn't police then write a ticket based on that person's.

K

Report again it it depends on what the violation is., so state statute would require a police officer to witness a state.

K

Violation of a state traffic law ordinances can be handled differently, but if it's, if a ticket is a state citation, the traffic ticket is actually written that has to be witnessed by a police officer.. What about all these minor offenses that are local?.

J

Whoo-Hooo rare, there are a variety of people who can write ordinance tickets.. I would. I think we need to be cautious with who?.

K

Do that because again, it's a violation and people,, you know they're gonna get upset about that and we don't want to put people who don't have that experience in dealing with.

K

You know members of the public who are upset.

K

Writing writing citations.. So if there was sort of a scooter patrol person.

J

Would you want them to be in the pub in the police department, or would you want them to be in public works?.

J

I think that's something that we would have to discuss that made some more discussion.. Yes,.

J

Okay., thank you. Customer sims.

L

Thank you and I'm gonna piggyback a little bit on what councilmember chopra was starting to get it. I think.

L

And I think this is for you, mister rooker and.

L

Please understand: I'm not advocating one way or another, but I think where we were headed is is: can we legally just flat-out, deny scooters?.

C

Would you be permitted to say this is not a type of commerce. we want to have in our public right-of-way.? Yes,.

L

Yes, sir., you would be able to do that.

L

And I'm advocating one way or another, but I think that's where that question was headed.

L

And I would say I don't know that. That's a response that we're seeing right at least.

C

I have not seen that response in other communities.

C

We have seen some communities that have responded to the business model where scooters arrived before getting permission to be in the right-of-way.

C

By picking them all up and saying we're not going to have them until they're regulated,, but I haven't seen.

C

And you may know more than me: council members,, but I haven't seen a city.. That's just said no.

C

We're not gonna have any. There are some cities that have decided they're gonna do.

C

Very limited numbers of pilot, a pilot program with a very small number of motorized scooters.

C

But that's as close as I've seen to that model. okay.. Thank you.

L

Continue from a liability standpoint, you know if there's a collision or an injury or an accident of some sort and there's.

L

Damage or personal injury and the scooter person is at fault.. Where does liability fall? There.

C

So that's going to be a question that depends on a lot of factors, so there are any number of folks who could have been negligent, right?.

C

So the scooter wasn't functioning properly.

C

For some reason, certainly you can see how a scooter company might have been negligent in.

C

That way, if the scooter user wasn't using it properly and then they're negligent for operating a scooter dangerously.

C

They could be, they could be responsible for their own injury.. You know,, you might find some folks who would say.

C

So there any number is there: any number of it's gonna depend on the facts?.

C

Specifically, what we're going to do, or at least what the ordinance suggests it's doing, the proposed ordinance is.

C

Transferring that risk to to the scooter companies to say if you want to have your business operating in the public's right-of-way.

C

We're not going to the city in the city's taxpayers aren't going to take on any risk of liability.

C

So if we get a claim, you're gonna assume responsibility for handling it and you're gonna have adequate insurance to make sure that that can be paid as well.

L

Okay,, and that covers the company and the users, what about someone is not involved with that and they're the ones that have been injured.

L

Or so some sort of damage yeah,, so they would have just like anybody else who suffered property, damage or personal injury.

C

They would have a cause of action against the responsible party, and you know in lots of circumstances where it's not clear. If potentially this.

C

You know a company or an individual who responsible you'll, see a.

C

Plaintiff's attorney or an attorney just name, everybody as a defendant and then, when a court sort out who is ultimately responsible for.

C

For paying that claim.

L

Thank you. Oh councillor, granger.

M

My first question is: I'm gonna go back to the companies.

M

M

Lyme and bird and have they been amenable to.

M

Regulations that you're proposing or that we're proposing. it sounds like you've already you've met with spin.

M

Correct and they're amenable.

C

So so we have run the ordinance past the scooter companies and we have some comments back.

C

Obviously, the interim operating agreements were negotiated with the scooter companies.

C

So there were lots of conversations at that time and we do. We have had some conversations with the scooter companies,, of course, about about the regulations.

C

We will probably continue to have conversations with them as well.

C

As we figure out just like every city around the country, the best pathway forward for regulating these devices and either they will.

M

Agree to those regulations or they'll pull their business, right?.

C

Obviously, we're not requiring anybody to be here., so if they choose not to operate in bloomington,, that's up to them. okay? perfect.. Thank you.

N

Yes,, I think my biggest questions. I have many specific questions,, but my biggest general question is about enforcement.

N

Because we had this discussion when we just we allowed bicycles on sidewalks and.

N

It's you know,. I think it's still an issue.

N

I don't know if, if chief d, coffe or or.

N

Mr. waste nor anybody can speak further to this um,. Perhaps it would be interesting if you could give us some feedback on how the bikes on sidewalks, how.

N

Enforcement of those rules has gone in the.

N

Year or two since we've had that allowance, you made really speak to that.

N

I think that's relevant.

K

Since I wasn't prepared to address,, I don't know how many tickets have been issued.

K

I didn't anticipate that question,, so I'm not sure what that is.

K

I can look and see and get that information to you,, but I don't. I don't know that right now,.

N

Yeah,, I would appreciate having that information for next week. okay,. Does it? Have there been other?.

N

Has there been other relevant feedback regarding bicycles that might be relevant to the scooters due.

N

To other departments, maybe in the city.

N

B

No, I'd, the only thing I would add is that I sent each of you a copy of the scooter survey reports and when.

B

One bit of interesting information. was that the.

B

Vast majority of people when asked if they had or had not noticed the dismount zone.

B

Signage 61.5% said no. they hadn't noticed it.. So the communication.

B

Failure on that is on us,, you know. Clearly we haven't done an adequate job of.

B

Communicating where the dismount zone is or what a dismount zone is, so I think that that's certainly a challenge.

B

A

Of councilmember questions, are there any council members who haven't yet asked a question? Who would like to ask one customer bowling just.

O

Go at random here.

O

Isn't private ownership of a motorized scooter illegal now and aren't we talking strictly about.

O

The emergence of shared do scooters here. I mean if I own one of these scooters and want to go around town.

O

In the street, I mean it's, that's not illegal. is it? well,, that's exactly right. If you want to go ahead and use a.

C

Privately owned motorized scooter in the street, that's totally permitted.. Now when it comes to using it and the sidewalks or.

C

Using it in a particular way, we can impose regulations on privately. This body can impose regulations on privately owned scooters., just like you do with privately owned bicycles,.

O

And the same note, one thing I noticed that was lacking in the definition of a motorized scooter was.

O

It seems the difference between that and a bicycle. Is the pedals like a scooter something.? It doesn't have pedals.

O

Would it be a problem to include a clause that says that a.

O

Motorized scooter doesn't have them so that that's easier to distinguish from a bike if it says that.

C

Yes,, I think that would that they're more than one. there's more than one way to do this.

C

I think that would absolutely be an effective way to distinguish a motorized scooter from a bicycle as well.

C

Yes, part of the reason I asked is because it's probably inevitable that we're going to see.

O

Hoverboards become a thing and they are basically battery-powered.

O

Skateboards so,, you know,, I mean the lack of pedals on that to makes it more of a coaster or a motorized.

O

I mean, it's not a scooter, doesn't have the handlebar. so.

O

But that's yeah,, I mean,, I'm frankly, I'm expecting jet-powered skates any day to so we'll see how that goes.

O

I have more questions,, although I think that's a good point just to elaborate.

C

I think you know when, if when this body defined bicycle, I don't think you had motorized scooters in mind or motorized skateboards in mind.

C

Right, you sort of captured those devices inadvertently when they became a thing in reality.. Thank you.

A

So before we go for a second round for council member questions, I had a couple of questions, or at least one question, and it's actually for council member voland and I'm wondering if, in his.

A

Peer cities, college driven metros, work that you're aware of other cities very much like bloomington.

A

That are farther down the road on this issue than we are, what their experience has been, what their, what, how they regulate?.

A

You know if we can make compared to make comparisons in a lot of situations to bloomington and these other kinds of communities.

A

Why not look hard at their experience with these?.

O

It's a really good question, but I think the answer is, and I can testify to how much work has been put in by the administration on this issue.

O

It's a technology that has really emerged in the past year.

O

While it makes sense for us to compare ourselves to cities that are about our size,.

O

There there isn't really, I mean, mr rucker might be able to speak more to this than me,. But I want to say the city that we.

O

Looked at that, the most closely with santa monica, is that right?.

O

And it was mainly because they had there was farther along in writing. Ordinance. I mean everyone is: is.

O

Coasting in the dark here,, you might say so, mr.

O

Roker, if you can elaborate on this, I would say that you're, probably more knowledgeable about the state of code in other cities, then than I am.

O

Yeah, you know,. I think that your point is well-taken councilmember boland, that this is so new.

C

You know,, I know when, when we sat down with pmt, the national association of city transportation, officials guidance is brand new.

C

You know, it's not off the presses.. The imlah guidance is hot off the presses and everybody's figuring this out all at the same time,.

C

So, you know, it's one of those things where it's inevitable, that this is a learn as you go to some extent situation.

C

I think that's right., so I guess again I would. I would summarize it just by saying that.

O

We did not look at at college metros, specifically mostly because we had trouble finding anyone who had definitively put out code. That was.

O

You know not causing further problems, so I would say santa monica was our was our guiding light in this case.

A

All right thank you.. Mr. goldwyn. we'll go second round questions.

A

We started with councilman rallo and he's had to stand up for a while., so.

D

Thank you, I have to could I issue two questions. One is.

D

The the code,- I agree with a lot of it, although I'm not certain about the being on sidewalks.

D

Because I think sidewalks are for pedestrians and I thought felt that way about bikes as well.

D

And I and I actually witness a terrible accident between a bicyclist and a pedestrian once and I'll, never forget that.

D

And of course, they present debris on sidewalks and so forth, but.

D

The code isn't worth anything unless it's in forests, so I think what we're getting at a number of questions is, and I'm loath to use police time to enforce.

D

Scooters how much revenue is coming from the scooters that we're deriving and can that be used.

D

To hire someone specifically for enforcing scooter the scooter ordinance.

C

So the short answer to your question is absolutely those license fees that are going to be set by the port of public works.

C

They're gonna be designed to deal with that precisely.

C

So if somebody does need to be hired, right?.

C

So if we say at the outset, we think, for example, one full-time equivalency is going to be adequate to address some of these issues and we discover the answer's.

C

No,, it's for those licensing, fees are going to be adjusted accordingly. so so yes, do you have a number of revenue?.

D

We are, we, are you know,. This is something we're learning about.. We have a number of models that are.

C

That are out there.. There are companies, national companies that perform these services, for example, at least on the parking side perform services for cities in terms of making sure that scooters aren't inappropriately located.

C

I don't have a number at this moment, for you we're continuing continuing to talk about it in terms of.

C

Enforcing scooter use for the moment, as chief dehoff said, that's the sort of thing that's going to be by patrol officers.

C

When they see it, like all other violations,.

D

Okay,, that's disappointing.

D

But my other question was about impoundment.

D

So when you impound a scooter?, I understand. it costs $40 to manufacture a scooter and we and the impoundment fees might add up to hundreds of dollars.

D

What happens if it's simply abandoned or or or is the is the penalty?.

D

Regardless of whether they pick up the scooter is it does, that is that occur?.

D

The penalty applies regardless of whether or not the company picks up the scooter.

C

So these are designed as municipal fines., so I.

C

Can file a complaint in court against the company?, even if I have to take the battery out of the scooter mail it to and recycle it, because that's the only place we can find a recycle a.

C

Battery and scrap the rest of the scooter., I can still take the company to court to find them.. Okay.

D

All right,, that's good. For now things: customers, ribama.

J

Thing about survey was.

J

Maybe it was a little comforting, only nine percent., although that's still a high number, were injured at scooter, injured,.

J

Injury-Related scooter related injuries,, but then, when you look on the next page.

J

The polling people were, 80 percent did not had never ridden a scooter.

J

So eighteen percent had ridden a scooter.

J

Nine percent had been injured by riding a scooter,, which is a pretty high number out of a small selection.

J

Would you like to speak to that and did you find any more information about local?.

J

Injury data from the hospital., so let's hear from the hospital who I think are looking forward to commenting this evening. so.

P

I'll leave that to them.

B

But I would point out that the question in the survey is phrased in such a way that it applies both to.

B

Scooter riders and non scooter riders that.

B

Nine something percent that you're referring to, because we wanted to phrase it in such a way that if you were a pedestrian.

B

And had been injured by a scooter., you could still answer affirmatively that you had in fact been.

B

Involved in a scooter.

J

Well,, that's interesting, but it's a pretty high percentage of people that were involved with scooter injury.. It seems to me in I.

J

Just wonder how much we'll be able to train and educate.

J

Scooter riders with a couple of these sessions a year and we've got new people coming., we got tourists.

J

We got new students every year we got people visiting.

J

Nobody will know, I mean it took it, it took us half an hour to hear the regulations.

Q

These people aren't gonna have any idea what the rules are. Unless there's someone out there.

J

Watching and monitoring and educating and coaching and I've envisioned someone on a scooter supplied by the scooter company.

J

Out there among the scooter, people and.

J

Educating people as it as it comes, and I think that would be a maybe a very effective way to.

J

Both educate in a positive way and report and and educate in a negative way when things don't get.

J

Out with right, customer., mr.

A

Baum, this is turning into, I think, a little bit of editorializing and and and final comment rather than questioning.

A

No, I was asking about more injuries and the injury level in the.

A

Appreciate it in the future, if and then don't elaborate so much and what you think might happen or what should.

A

Just kind of try to get to the question that this is that's it., so pleasing me.

A

I would have liked to hear stood if we had more statistics about how many injuries there had been, because.

J

The I read a small article that had.

J

Nationally, there'd been to only four deaths, which isn't that many but lots of head injuries, lots of small extremity injuries and.

J

That's we I'm surprised that we can't get local data about.

J

What's happened to people who are riding these because what, if some level we're responsible to when?.

J

We just don't make enough rules to make them safe and let them be out there.. So that's part of our.

J

Our job have, I asked a question,, you know,, mr. baumer., so a for the question. My parking question.

J

Well, no,, I did say why can't we get more data?.

B

Why can't we get more data? well,? We? There is no uniform reporting standard at this time.. So.

B

They're just that data. The last time we spoke.

B

Would there was no uniform to report that so until where everybody's talking oranges and oranges.

J

Yeah out of driven, we should be able to get down of who gets injured on the scooter seems to me.

O

Question mister stir bomb. yeah.

A

So so the questions why? I guess why can't we get more data? That's my question.

J

I think the answer to the question is the data isn't being collected in the fashion right now.? That would be useful.

A

Thank you, council members, chopra. yes., I have a question and it is.

F

What got us to arrive at the 18 year?.

F

Of age limitation, on the scooters.

C

Yeah, thank you,, so so that's a requirement that is already being imposed by one of the scooter companies.

C

If you want to use a shared use, motorized scooter,, it doesn't apply to privately owned scooters at all.

C

But but that's it's really concerned about, I think safety and having people who are using these things responsibly.

C

So obviously, the the older, the user, the lower the risk factors for irresponsible use.

F

And my second and final question is.

F

What is what's the result, if a user doesn't take a photo at the end of the ride as required?.

C

Yeah,, so if the, if scooter companies aren't permitting or aren't requiring that to happen in order to conclude the ride so that you stop.

C

Getting charged for the ride,, then the remedy would be to.

C

Penalize the scooter company in the form of a fine for non-compliance with, with with the ordinance that.

F

Make sense. yes, thank you.

A

Councilmember simms.

L

Thank you, mr. chair, and, if I may, can I invite the medical folks that are here up to the podium and.

L

My question is:.

L

What would your injury data suggest to us? sure,, so I have a statement.

R

I don't know if you want me to read the statement. I was going to read and then I can answer specifically.

K

I'm beth group.- I'm a physician at the indiana university health center on campus and I'm the medical director there.

R

Well,, I think now let me ask council, member boland, our parliamentarian.

A

Is it appropriate for to make the statement of the written statement during council our public comment or not?.

O

It's in our tradition. our norm has been that we have a certain set of people who were invited to present.

O

I mean,, I don't think it's inappropriate at all if they.

O

Present, at the same time, we didn't call for them in the.

O

In the agenda that they would be expected to speak so normally they would be speaking during public comment,, but I think it's a matter for the chair, beside. all right.

A

Well, go ahead and make your statement prepared and also respond to the question okay.. Thank you.

R

So,, like I said, I, I served the campus community, so I'm seeing only students, so my data will also be skewed towards the students who are the majority of the people or I.

R

Believe the majority of the users of the scooters.

R

But my medical staff and I are very concerned about the dangers of the scooters.

R

Ever since they arrived this fall, we have seen an increase in injuries related to their use in october alone,.

R

We saw more than 38 patients with scooter related injuries., just an art clinic.

R

Some of the injuries were mild, but others have been more severe like head injuries, facial fractures and extremity fractures, some of which required surgery to repair.

R

These injuries can be costly and very disruptive to college to a college student.

R

These medical visits and procedures related to scooter injuries can eventually increase overall healthcare costs for everyone.

R

After seeing the dangers, these scooters posed.

R

I decided we need to be more vocal as medical providers about the scooters and I, along with dr.

R

Bob adams, who couldn't be here tonight?

R

the medical director of iu health, bloomington emergency department, requested a meeting with mayor hamilton, which we met with him as well as other members of his staff that are here tonight.

R

To discuss our concerns and give them our data at that point,.

R

And we're very concerned that these scooters are making bloomington and a.

R

Specifically, that iu campus less safe the dangers extend beyond just the person riding the scooter.

R

But also the pedestrians that are being hit to drivers that are trying to avoid scooter accidents and to people tripping over scooters left on walkways.

R

The centers for disease control has been investigating scooter use in austin.

R

Texas and their report is anticipated at any time.. It just says the springs.

R

I'm not sure when it's coming out,, but I do think this report will be very helpful to communities that are struggling with this issue.

R

One thing we at the health center felt was necessary to do on campus was to engage our campus partners.

R

To create a scooter safety week, which was a social media campaign that we ran at the end of march, to try to help our students to educate them on.

R

Safe scooter use that also included a helmet giveaway to students, because I have never seen a student wear a helmet while riding a scooter.

R

If I had my way, I would totally ban the scooters from bloomington altogether.

R

But if the city allows them to operate, I would advise more restrictions, many of which were mentioned tonight.

R

But they need to be enforced and I'm worried that those won't be enforced.

R

So that's all for my statement as far as data.. So as mary katherine said,.

R

We don't have data, I can only give you my data from the health center and we've been just collecting this, as patients have come in.

R

We have a walk-in clinic, but we also have appointments, and so my data is only based on students that have just walked in to the health center saying I was injured by a scooter.

R

So this is going to be low data because I'm not capturing people that have called or made an online appointment.

R

And october was our worst month for scooter use injuries.

R

And, like I said,, we have 38 people present to our walk-in clinic for scooter injury.

R

In november, we had 17 in december, we only had nine, but our our december is shortened with only two weeks of the that month because of finals.

R

Um,, so we had 64 that only that came to our walk-in clinic in those three months now the.

R

January, we only had one again, it was shortened,, but also the birds went away and the lines were intermittent.

R

And then we've had only three in february and then I don't have data from there.

R

But I anticipate it's gonna go way up in april again as it gets warmer, and now the birds are back.. So that's my data.

R

Dr. kadel is gonna talk about iu health, but the one thing that he doesn't have that I have so I used to get all the er records on iu students.

R

I don't anymore., so I don't have all that data. and that's a whole other complicated matter. Why? I don't see them anymore,, but I.

R

Out of that october november and december time., I know 23 iu students were injured.

R

In the er that I saw those reports,, but I don't get every report on every.

R

Student, that goes the er, so again,, but with those numbers right there, you could at least get a little bit of a an.

R

Underestimation of the number of injuries and bloomington, so I can take any questions or dr. mr. chair.

D

Could I can we have a couple questions?.

A

Iii got, I think, house member simpson necessarily finished yet.

L

Well,, that was it, would it be more appropriate. Mr. chair,, let me just say parliamentary, that.

O

Any member can request that the doctors that they can make questions of that.

O

You know address questions to the doctors,, but for the moment,, mr.

O

Simms has the floor and he could call anybody else.. He wants to speak, so we should reserve that thank you. mr. parliamentarian., mr.

L

Do you think it'd be better for the common public comments?? I just want to hear the data that they have.

L

Necessarily an analysis per se.

O

Yeah,, I think we'd like to hear the data too,. Okay.

S

Good evening., my name, is dan handel. I am the chief medical officer for iu health, bloomington hospital and more pertinent to this conversation, a practicing emergency physician in in the emergency department. Here at bloomington, a my.

S

Little closer,, okay.

S

Back to your previous question about difficult engagement, getting data the way we code.

S

Visits to the emergency department is not based on mechanism of injury,, but the injury itself.

S

So we see over 50,000 visits and our merge departments, so I can tell you all the injuries we've had, but whether or not they were scooter cost or.

S

Not it's a little harder to dig into and actually to your point.. That was one of the early questions I started asking early on.

S

I can tell you anecdotally that we have seen an uptick and there's actually, even in the brief tenure of.

S

Scooters being in existence in this country, there's already papers coming out in medical literature and I'm more than happy to pull those at the request of the council for review afterwards.

S

I I think, given the speed of these.

S

Vehicles given the volume of their use and also the complete lack of familiarity of their users.

S

That ng severity that we're seeing is significant and.

S

To the point where us has a level three trauma center have on multiple occasions how to transfer patients up to methodist as the level one trauma center.

S

So I think that the severity of and potential injury cannot be understated.

S

Things like skull fractures, significant injuries to the abdominal organs have been seen on a recurrent basis.. So.

S

So while we can't give you absolute numbers of what is caused from a scooter specifically.

S

If you ask any of my colleagues, including dr. adams, we can tell you that there is significant injury and that the volume has.

S

Increased dramatically since their introduction.

A

Thank you very much. Comer sims,. Are you finished with this round of questions for now,.

A

We're gonna come around a third time. I think.

A

Okay, thank you.. I think councilmember piedmont, smith,.

N

N

I want to know how many scooters were allowed under the interim agreements with.

N

Birdlime and what was the last one, the one we just spin?. Thank you.

C

So the agreements do not set caps on the scooters, that's dictated by the marketplace.

C

So that's dictated by what by the marketplace excuse.

N

Since that was such a short question., may I ask another one? yeah,, please go ahead.

N

So,, this is a.

N

Technical questions about a technical question about the scooters.- I don't know if it's possible to do this,, but I know that when I.

N

You know see people trying the scooters for the first time and when I myself tried the scooters for the first time.

N

You know, you just kind of a click through and say: okay.

N

Yeah,, I've read the rules and nobody actually reads the rules., so is it possible?.

N

To have, for the first time, a user.

N

Uses the equipment to have a time delay between when they.

N

Activate it and when it actually works so that.

N

They would be, they would either be standing around or they would actually read and have me be forced to take time to.

N

Actually read the agreement is that a possibility?

N

I'm just trying to figure out some way to make sure that people actually do read the rules.

N

I think that's a fascinating question and I am definitely not the right person to answer it. so,. I don't know.

A

Would you please come to the podium and and.

A

Again, say your name ever not everybody's been doing that tonight, but go ahead, and my name is david wade. Eva'dur.

E

I don't know if that exists at this point in time.

E

We are working on other technologies that will include like anti-wobble and stuff like that.

E

So if someone were to get on and be a little more wobbly than we'd like them to be, but the ride will terminate.

E

That's in the works with our next-generation scooters that we have now,, but oh you're up there.

N

So the way it works currently.

N

How does somebody sign up and use the scooter for the first time? Can you just walk us through that yeah,, so the.

E

Download the app and then they will have to register, and then they have to go through a user agreement and then.

E

They do all that online, not at the scooter.. They do that.. I don't know if they can do it online.

E

Er, if it's just through the app,, I'm sorry., I don't know that.

E

But currently they have to go through like a series of slides.

E

Those are not timed to my knowledge,, but I can mention that as a an idea.

N

Okay., thank you.

A

Okay, councilmember sandberg?.

I

Thank you.. My question has to do with the problems we're having with the dismount zones,, especially in light of the information that we're getting now about injuries and injury data.

I

I think I share councilmember piedmont, smith's desire to know as much as we can about.

I

Where are these injuries happening?? Are they happening more on campus, where it's crowded, with? you know,? I used to pedestrians.

I

Traffic, or are they happening more in the downtown, with the congestion?.

I

So that's one thing I want to know.

I

The other thing I want to know is with our discount zones as we examine where some of the problems are with collisions and.

I

Pedestrian dangers. Can we expand that dismount zone? If people don't understand what it is., can we better visualize it?.

I

Can we make it bigger and just say in the downtown core where urban stuff is happening?, no can do.

I

Be in the street, but not on the sidewalk or you know.

I

Do we need to take a similar look at iu and see where maybe the majority of these injuries are occurring, where we have to.

I

Be a little tougher with where they're just not allowed on the sidewalk., so.

B

I would note that indiana university has the option of banning scooters on their property.

B

They have not chosen to do so, they do strictly regulate where they are and are not allowed to park.

B

But again they have not banned scooter usage on their property as far as exact location of into.

B

Injuries,, I don't have that., I don't know if our health care providers they have that information. so,. I'm sorry.

B

That's just not information. I can provide, but that would certainly be helpful.

I

I'm really injury, it would be really interested is mount zone enough to to?.

I

The the pedestrian and and that rider injuries. all right. thank you.. Thank you.

Q

M

Okay, mr. bricker, in your presentation, you noted that the board of public works may establish limits on numbers of scooters.

M

Something about limits on the number of scooters made may be deployed.

M

So the board may do it,, but then in our.

M

Written packet, it said the use it stated that the board will cap the number of scooters the company may deploy.

M

So I'm confused and then in the.

M

Question and answer, I believe, miss.

M

Carmichael sorry,, I just want to say mary, katherine.

M

Noted that we're leaving that up to the company,, so I'm just looking for clarification in this. I.

C

Should be more careful with my verbs., so I apologize for the confusion on that.

C

It is it's isabelle's fault,, but it is not a man.

C

It's not mandatory that they set caps. The ordinance grants the board the authority to cap the number of scooters that.

C

Scooter companies can deploy, but it's not something that they have to do., so so it is, it is optional at this time.

C

I don't know that there would be a recommendation to the board to set any caps.

C

Until we have a little bit more information and until we know how many scooter companies are gonna, be operating in the market for sure.

C

But that is something the board has the option to do so.

M

When you were talking with spin, you just said.

M

Drop-Off, what you want?.

C

Well, with spin all we did was we. We use the interim operating agreement, the same agreement, that's in place with bird and lime.

C

So that we could be consistent with all of our companies and that agreement doesn't set caps., okay,.

C

All right., thank you.

O

Thank you,, yes,.

O

If someone hires a scooter at exactly 10:00 p.m,.

O

Will they be able to operate it until they get to their destination, or will it be turned off at 10:01?.

O

Could it be turned off while someone is navigating an intersection? for example,? What will happen?.

O

The short answer is no, we obviously don't want a scooter to turn off mid ride,, so there would be a quote unquote.

C

Run-Out period, where, if you rented a scooter just before the scooters, are required to be turned off, you would be able to complete that.

C

Ride, okay,, that's good to know.

O

Secondly, does anyone and the administration have any concerns about mds, now?.

O

This is the mobility data standard that los angeles is pioneered,, but the concern is that.

O

It is not the hardest thing in the world to.

O

Identify an individual from ride data any more than it is to crack a poorly chosen password these days.

O

Do we have any concern about who has access to.

O

The scooter data and how.

O

Like are there any safeguards in place?.

O

Can you speak on the current state of?

O

safeguards of that kind of data within the administration.

O

So we are getting some data already as.

C

Part of the interim operating agreements that we have from these companies and we do very closely guard which.

C

Individuals in the city are able to see that data, because this is so new.

C

We do want to stick with that particular specification in terms of the way. we're going to get data.

C

We're gonna examine what we get and if we have concerns about pii.

C

Obviously, we're going to take those into account and we'll continue to work with the scooter companies and internally, with ips and.

C

With other folks around the city to make sure that we are safeguarding all of those all of those all of that information.. Thank you.

A

Second round, questions from customers that haven't had a second.

A

Well, no, well,. I actually had a question for probably mr. rosenberger again.

H

A

Is there data this first about bikes, first of all,, it's their data out there not fluent in specific but sort of general research.

A

And data that that tells us about the.

A

Demographic income and.

A

Ethnic makeup of people who use bicycles for actual transportation or supposed to recreation.

H

Sure, so there's.

H

Rosenberger enough have to state it every time.

H

There is data, so I don't know about like with me that does show.

H

Out of the lowest income groups., that's the highest group that uses bicycling as transportation.

H

They use it as higher at higher rates than other income groups.

H

Typically,, we actually see it in lower income and higher and come in less in the middle.

H

But yes in our country, low income also.

H

Disproportionately impacts minority residents and people of color, so.

H

Is that the question? yeah, that's the question, but then I want to jump and I just wanted to make sure I had that right. First of all,.

A

So thank you for confirming that second. well,. Is there any indication that this also goes for scooters?.

A

That's that's really my question. After confirming the first part, I.

H

Don't have that., I don't have that data., I don't know.. I haven't. I haven't seen a study on it or anything. Either.. Okay,.

A

Thank you third round questions who might as well go back the way we started councillor ella. This is for the physicians.

D

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to know a little bit more about what you've observed.

D

Specifically, what proportion of injuries a scooter related that are scooter related are of.

D

Pedestrians, as opposed to the riders of the scooters and.

D

Then are they do overall? Do you see that there you have a greater numb than you would say for bicycles?.

R

So,, my name is beth loop again., I'm with iu health center on campus.

R

I would say the majority of the injuries. we've seen have been scooter riders and very few pedestrians hit by scooters.

R

I don't, I don't, have the breakdown on that.

R

And I would say, the scooter numbers are so.

R

Far above what we see with bike injuries.

R

October was so notable with how many people came in and.

R

We don't see, I mean we might see a handful bike: injuries, a month, but not,. You know 30-plus in a month.

R

So it's very different so tenfold.

D

Maybe yeah, yes more than with, but at least in october, I mean my numbers did change as it got colder so.

R

But october it was pretty significantly different. okay,. That's very helpful thinking.

S

In him dell bloomington up. oh, okay. oh, yeah., please know I was. I was gonna say that our numbers support.

S

What was mentioned from the from campus? That, just because of the speed of these devices compared to the typical writing, speed of a.

S

Recreational bicyclist, the mechanism, but it's been mostly the riders themselves and not pedestrians.

S

A

Councilmember chopra, you had your hand up?.

F

Yes, I understand that there is some parking limitations on I used campus.. I think miss carmichael spoke to that.

F

And I totally understand if you can't answer this question,, but I wanted to pose it anyway,.

F

What are they doing, how is it being enforced? How well isn't working just an overview on.

F

Their policies and procedures,, please a good evening that a voice in public works director glad to be here this evening.

T

So my understanding and conversations with staff at iu is.

T

That they would need to be parked like a bicycle. At a bike, rack.

T

And that that's what is allowed for parking if it's left anywhere,, but at a bike rack.

T

And I know in the pin the fall and I stood still here in the spring. they've been impounding any scooter.

T

That's not at a bike rack, and that happened in significant number of cases. Last fall., I do know that who is they?.

T

Indiana university, so in particular, I've been speaking with their parking services. Director who's been who was last fall tasked with a lot of these things.

F

Okay, so have they? hired additional personnel believe they were just using their facilities.

T

Personnel,, you know so maybe like their landscape crews or those facilities, folks that are out and about on a regular basis.

T

That's certainly my understanding from last fall and.

F

Have the iu staff.

F

Presented to you that it seemed effective and efficient.

T

Iiii don't know if I would make that claim.

T

I do know the numbers of scooters that were impounded by, indiana.

T

University staff last fall was pretty staggering and I do believe there was some.

T

Financial compensation given to iu for the release of those scooters, just like our impoundment fees and as they're, proposing this ordinance.

F

A

Councilmember or sterben? yeah, this would be for mr. rosenberger.

J

I wonder if you would speculate on the relative greenness of.

J

Walking biking and scooters and then the relative safety of walking biking and scooters.

H

Relative to relative greenness and the relative safety.

H

Sure walking is the greenest.

H

Bicycling is second and scooters are third.. I think there are lots of.

H

Comparisons and scooters still use energy, but the fraction of energy required to.

H

With you compare the energy required to move a person on a scooter compared with moving a person in a car.

H

It is a fraction of the energy required.

H

So while it does involve energy, it is much more energy efficient in that comparison and then follow-up.

J

Do you think the scooters are why the bike shares failed and are leaving?? I.

J

Think there could be a relationship between those two.

J

Transportation devices., I think there could be a relationship. I think.

H

We also needed we could learn something from the scooters,, which is they did saturate the market, and we saw that.

H

For good and bad, but with the bike share, we didn't get to see that, and so, while.

H

They weren't as easy for people to access.

H

I think I think there was something easy about checking them out and there's something very familiar about.

H

Bicycling, so it is effective,, but we don't have data to show if those were the same user. Groups, honestly.

H

We're the same people, did they stop bike, sharing and switch to that or is?.

H

The barrier to renting a scooter just a lot lower., so more people did it right. I can add, on to that., I would say.

H

Will you asked safety? I?.

H

Don't know how much you want to know for me,, but.

H

They're all challenging modes because of infrastructure.

H

So we want to improve safety for all of those modes. The u.s. right now has the.

H

We've been continuing to increase as a country.

H

This is not bloomington specific, but pedestrian deaths are like the highest they've been in a decade.

H

So there's a lot. We would like to be doing with our infrastructure to improve that.

H

Those are pedestrians overwhelmingly hit by drivers.

H

But so their safety gains to make across-the-board, I think.. Thank you.

A

Okay, councilmember simms, then councilmember granger thank you.. I don't know who this is for. Probably mr. roker.

L

I'm back to enforcement and obviously it's $10 a day up to $180.

L

180 days before it's impounded and then it's a hundred and fifty dollar fee, if we impound that.

L

What happens to that 1,800 bucks that was charged for storage? is that part of everything?.

C

Yeah, absolutely., I didn't hear I didn't hear they were connected., so I'm just so. If we have to use a municipal facility.

C

Yes, for storing your scooter, instead of using it for what other, whatever other purpose, we would normally want to use it for.. Yes,.

C

We're we're gonna bill. You those., I'm gonna find you for the storage fees.

C

I say I cuz it'll, probably be me later, release. okay,, so we'll build them.

L

Absolutely., thank you.

A

Okay,, council, member or granger?, oh.

A

Yeah,, I just have one more, and this has to do with the amana know, who would answer this.

L

But the affordability, the 50% discount.

L

And mr. rosenberg clearly stated that the lower socioeconomic folks are.

L

Disproportionately made up by minorities that think that's pretty clear.

L

But to get the 50% discount, they had to meet federal state or local.

L

Assistance program, guidelines and, and that may be somewhat easy to.

L

Document, but how does that get to these scooter companies?, I mean,: how do how do they know when you do?.

L

You know I'm saying even if board of public works.

L

Verifies that then, how does that get from there to here?.

L

So it actually gets to the citizens that we're trying to help most. So I think that's an outstanding question.

C

We had the same question.. How does this look work in practice? right?? How do we make it actually happen?.

C

And you know lime. I know I can't speak to bird and their representatives aren't here, but they have a program very much like this already, so you can log on to their website. You can demonstrate.

C

With appropriate documentation, which is not too difficult to provide that you are participating in an eligible program once you do that, you can.

C

You can transfer that to whatever the application would be on your phone and at that point, you're eligible for the discount.

C

I don't know if you want to speak more more to that.. I think that's called called lime access.

C

So there are programs like this that the companies are either doing because they've been required to do it in other communities already or they're.

C

Just doing it of their own volition., so okay., I think these four structures in place.. Thank you.

L

Okay, councillor grant ruth and I think maybe we'll go to the public for comment. oh,. Oh council, member, female smith., sorry.

A

M

Thank you.. My question is actually for mr. van meter. If you could step to the podium,, please.

E

David van deventer,, could you say your name slowly, please, david van deventer.. Thank you.

M

Our this legislation says the scooters must be equipped with a bell or horn. Our lime scooters currently.

M

E

When is it sometimes they get broke off when people knock them over and stuff like that,.

E

And then we replace those as they come in for repairs.

M

It's a bell: it's not super effective. honestly,, I usually choose to say on your left or.

E

Something that effect, but even then people are walking around with headphones.

F

E

Just try okay. thank you that customer peat-moss. smith.

N

The scooter boxes that are proposed to be, you know drawn on the pavement as a parking area.

N

Would it be possible to have helmets available there to have some kind of?.

N

Cabinet, where you could, you know, use your phone to open it and borrow a helmet and then return it, because I'm very concerned about all these people not wearing helmets.

C

That is a really great question, and that is not one. That's come up.

C

We've we've talked about scooters for a lot of hours and that's not one that we've batted around.

C

Really?, so so let us think about that a little bit and see if see, if there's a model that might work for something like that.

C

N

And then my other question is.

N

Will scooter cymbals be added to bike lanes so that people know that bike lanes are also appropriate for.

N

T

Good question,, we haven't really added moissan again public works,. You know that hasn't really been discussed in our internal conversations.

T

You know,, we have miles upon miles upon miles of bike lanes throughout the city.

T

Obviously, if you know if we are recruiting all of our costs,, it's something we could do. but again,, we haven't discussed that internally.

T

So,, I guess that's my answer.

N

Okay, thank you., okay,, councillor wolle and then we're gonna go to the public. I think.

A

O

Okay, is there gonna be. This is maybe a kind of administrative. The question is there gonna be a scooter webpage on the city site.

O

I'm gonna sneeze now we're the agreements the city has with the various companies are published, along with the schedule of rates and charges and the required phone numbers.

O

Like what could it be bloomington that I and gov slash scooters?.

O

Could we have a page that just has all that info on it?? I.

B

Can see why no reason why there wouldn't be?.

B

We're constantly pushing out information as it comes in and, and that seems like appropriate information share with the public.

B

Yeah,, I don't know that we keep up with each company's rates.

B

Necessarily. well, I mean if there was just a link on the page to where someone could see what their rates are.

O

Oh sure., it wouldn't be an unreasonable thing to maintain.

O

It's just that if there isn't one.

O

Catch point for all that information. it's effectively not published. sure., okay,.

O

Is there any concern? I don't know if this question is, for you miss carmichael,, but is there any concern about yellow curb?.

O

Spaces as parking for scooters., I.

O

Think it's actually a pretty good idea,, but I'm wondering what.

O

How you'll implement that?.

T

Yeah, so council member hole- and I would compared a lot to the way the pace bike share was implemented.. We used a lot of yellow curb areas for parking for the pace. Bike share.

T

And the reason that they are deemed safe for that purpose, is they don't create line-of-sight issues.

T

So the scooters aren't they're small they're, not very,, you know, they're, not boxy or anything else, actually blocking a line of sight from a driver of a vehicle.

T

So we don't have much concern with that, you know,. There may be some areas that we wouldn't based on. Maybe.

T

You know turn radius or yeah,. You've answered my question well,. That's that satisfies me. Thank you.. Is there a penalty.

O

Yes,, I think, just to add on., I'm sorry.. I think I couldn't tell if you interpreted that we would say any yellow, curb.

H

No, I heard okay. yeah, just some yeah.. Thank you.

O

No,, I think it's a good use of yellow curb space, and that was misery over marker.

O

Yes, is there, what is the penalty for a scooter company when the rider doesn't bother to take the picture that shows they parked it properly?.

C

So maybe I didn't communicate this as clearly as I meant to earlier. The idea is that you can't conclude your ride.

C

Until you take an appropriate picture.

C

Demonstrating where you've located, where you've located that scooter,, which would mean you'd, continue to be charged.

C

So that would be part of ending your ride if the scooter company does not require that as a term.

C

Renting a scooter from that scooter company,, we would impose that general penalty against the scooter company for non-compliance.

C

Which is $2,500 per violation per violation,, so that's pretty hefty fine.

C

So if an unrelated pedestrian comes by and shoves the scooter over.

O

What kind of penalty does the company.

O

Might the penalty might the company experience. yeah, and I think you've identified one of one of those problems.

C

There's all sorts of intervening causes that could could do that.

C

Even the wind right, if we see a big wind event, could blow a scooter over.. So that's one of those situations where probably.

C

Relocation would absolutely be one of the remedies we would use with our staff and then potentially a fine as well.

C

But we, you know any time we think about imposing a municipal, fine against a company or an individual. Just to be clear. We try.

C

To be fair about that and take intervening causes into account.. Thank you.

O

In addition, how will a ticket be enforced?? Will it be on the company until it gets passed to the rider by the company? In other words, if, if they don't specify who?.

O

Got the ticket than the company pays it for parking violations.? Yes,.

C

O

Okay, last question: I elations obviously,, it's yeah last last question, mr. van deventer.

O

Thank you, mr. rucker, when lime scooters get impounded. How quickly does lime react to it here in town.

O

And what kind of data do you have about? How many scooters you've lost to?.

O

Because you didn't collect them.

E

David, we leave inert, so how fast do we respond as quickly as possible.

E

With the impound we've been working very closely with, I mean a turnipseed, the director of parking operations at iu in tyler, easton.

E

The delay in us getting our scooters from impound. There has been in the.

E

Transfer of information from the facilities to the parking operations to issue a citation and then contacting us.

O

Well, then, typically just how long does it take you to get your scooters back?.

O

Once we know about the citation less than a week,.

E

How many have you not known about?,.

O

Quite a few. okay,, so there are thirsty.. I mean like from december through.

E

January, I never received any sight mayu, but they continue to damp out.

E

Once we've found out about those, we've made every effort to pay them as quickly as possible.

O

Okay,, how many lime scooters are currently impounded right now that you know to my knowledge, zero?.

O

Okay, thank you.. That's it for my questions. all right. thank you.. We're ready to go to the public for public comment on this.

A

So,, please just call you state your name. um,. Is there a sign-in sheet up, there? yeah sign in? If you don't mind.

P

Hello, I'm christine misuk. I.

P

Will be 62 years old this year and I have been riding scooters in bloomington for 7 years, 6 or 7 years.

P

Almost daily in the good weather, so I think that makes me one of the people in this area who has the most actual riding experience.. I absolutely adore them.

P

I have two privately owned: scooters. One is a kick scooter.

P

Operated by my foot- and the second is an electric one., I have to say I'm not able to ride a bicycle.

P

Because of bad knees, but I find either scooter perfectly easy and in fact preferable to a bicycle and.

P

This is just my opinion.. I suspect that the pay bicycles have sort of gone.

P

Down while the scooters have become popular because they are really a joy to ride.

P

The I want to address the group because I had a couple of concerns about.

P

The rule about sidewalks, which seems to me.

P

Impractical, I do want to say, though, that in those six or seven years of my writing of scooter., I have never been in an accident.

P

But I am the older person who rides it safely, just like younger people are more likely to be in car accidents.

P

When I ride a scooter on a sidewalk, if I'm approaching a pedestrian, I slow down to about the speed of a pedestrian.

P

Scooters are more stable than bicycles.

P

I could ride a scooter at maybe a quarter of the speed that a pedestrian is walking without losing my balance.

P

So pedestrians are not concerned about me somebody waiting for a bus, stop for example, or walking on a street.. See me coming.

P

It's not a worry, they might be perfectly content.

P

To stay in the middle of the sidewalk., so what am I to do? Go on the somebody's line?.

P

If I dismount, I'm not only annoying myself.

P

But I'm a lying, the pedestrian because on my scooter.

P

I was taking up the amount of space that I would take up walking,. You know the width.

P

But if I dismount all of a sudden, I had this bigger whiff.

P

So I wonder if there might be some way of.

P

Figuring a somewhat different rule for.

P

Sidewalk wide ain't riding myself,, I think it's three feet on most sidewalks- is really not manageable.

P

I wonder if it might be appropriate to say that you must slow down to.

P

Pedestrian speed or that impasse and pedestrian you may go only the minimum speed necessary to pass them.

P

While you're passing them anyway, just the thought, the other thing I wanted to say is.

P

I really commend the city for allowing bicycles and scooters on the sidewalk. In my.

P

Experience most places I ride, I encounter very few pedestrians.

P

And it might be with the survey about people knowing about the dismount zone, downtown.

P

The reason that they might not know about it may have nothing to do with it might just have to do with.

P

Necessity, these might be, people are riding their.

P

Bicycles or scooters and they're part of town and don't even ride downtown, so they wouldn't happen to see the signs.

P

But I have to say the the rule about letting scooters on the sidewalks as well as bicycles to me, is absolutely.

P

Essential safety issue, because.

P

P

There, every year, people are died for motor vehicle accidents.

P

And- and I tell you, there's nothing more frightening than seeing a car collide with a pedestrian which I did not all that long ago.

P

So if I come into downtown at the dismount zone, I have two choices. I can walk on the sidewalk.

P

Well,, that's okay,, but it takes up a little bit of room, but I tell you I do not want to go in the street because.

P

My fear of being hit by a scooter on that sidewalk is minuscule.

P

Paired to my fear of being hit by a car in the street.

P

So my concern is, I think, it's understandable to have that dismount zone downtown.

P

But I hate to see dismount zones expand it too much, because what you are doing is encouraging people to.

P

Ride scooters in roads where it's not necessarily safe and.

P

The greater likelihood of a death is going to be a car hitting a scooter.

P

It might be the cars fault and maybe the scooters fault.

P

Anyway,, that's basically what I want to say. thank you.. Thank you for your comments.

U

Good evening council.- thank you for giving us an opportunity to speak on this issue.

U

I am a constituent of councilmember granger out of district 2 and.

U

My name is aaron caleb krane I go by caleb. I.

U

Come not only speaking for myself,, but speaking for a lot of people in the disabled community. In dealing with these motorized scooters.

U

They have become a problem and a nuisance and that's putting it very very politely,.

U

Scooters park on sidewalks as.

U

Suggested by the ordinance outside of the dismount zone present a very big safety risk.

U

That minimum of fifty four inches required by the a da. well, it may work for me as a.

U

Thinner person, the wheelchairs for larger people such as my mother, are quite wider and.

U

Passing a scooter that is sitting on the sidewalk and trying not to fall sideways off of the edge and.

U

Potentially fracture your skull or worse is very, very difficult myself. I feel those scooters should not be allowed on the sidewalks, but many people in this disabled community.

U

Community we are split so on that I can't really speak.

U

I would encourage the council to look at putting those painted boxes?.

U

Around the city, not just in those specific areas like the discount zone, that would open up the sidewalks for.

U

Members of myself and others who are vulnerable to this issue, whether it be.

U

Disabled or elderly, who can't move out of the way fast enough.. I.

U

Appreciate what the administration has done in surveying about this issue?.

U

But a couple of surveys are a couple of education areas. Each year is not enough.

U

I took the survey months ago and there was a, I believe there was a set deadline of like last week.

U

Where somebody could take some of that data that you have in front of you, tonight?.

U

About injuries with scooters and the way those questions were phrased.

U

Does not really?

U

lend itself to injuries when the scooter is parked or in the way of the sidewalk? I myself last tuesday.

U

Obtained a couple major scrapes on the hand and.

U

Broke off and damaged the nail bed of my ring finger on my right hand,.

U

Because I had to maneuver around a scooter and fell out of my motorized wheelchair and my support staff could not catch me in time.

U

So I strongly encourage the council to go back and negotiate with the administration.

U

Banned scooters from parking on sidewalks.

U

Period give them somewhere else give them. Those painted boxes, find other ways.

U

Extend the sidewalks, if possible, to provide wider areas like the b-line trail.

U

Parking on the b-line is not difficult for.

U

People with disabilities to get around there for making bloomington much safer for.

U

Folks, like myself., I thank you for your time.. Thank.

U

A

Other other public comment.

V

Hi,, I'm jenny wilkinson,. I never beheld hines neighborhood.

V

What I want to speak to most of all is the.

V

The laws that bicycles have to adhere to I'm a cyclist. I.

V

Was born and raised in the san francisco bay area,, california,.

V

Out there bicycles are treat are just like cars. We have to adhere to all of the motor vehicle laws.

V

And regulations, I am really adamant about the fact that bicycles do not write on the sidewalk.

V

Scooters do not write on the sidewalk.. I.

V

There's no place for that with pedestrians on the.

V

Sidewalks in downtown district, for instance our downtown., it's very dangerous.

V

This young man here just spoke to that.

V

V

Am really passionate about.

V

Having bike lanes- and I think scooters are probably going to be.

V

It's a wonderful idea to have scooters and bikes.

V

Share like the bike lane downtown on walnut in college,, you know going to and fro.

V

That's the appropriate place in my opinion, for that to be.

V

Also on the b-line trail, which I walk to the market on the weekends.

V

I ride my bike to the market on the weekends and I have to say as a cyclist.

V

It would be really great, like we have out on the west coast.

V

To have the b-line 12 trail twice as wide and have a line down the middle and have a side for.

V

Moving vehicles, bicycles, scooters and aside for pedestrians, so that there is a clear pathway.

V

To keep people, because I know even- and I am a cyclist too and when I'm walking down the beeline trail.

V

On a market weekend and now we're getting ready., I mean, you know,, it's it's very busy from like second street all the way down to the marketing bag.

V

To have to really put some safety in mind there as I ride my bike., sometimes when I, when I do ride my bike.

V

Too, you know I wish I had my own lane actually to not have to keep saying ding-ding-ding or on your left on your left.

V

But to have my own designated lane to go on that trail, maybe,, you know make the trail twice as wide as it is.

V

And then and then have scooter parking on the side.. It's not actually on the trail,, but.

V

Like this box is you're talking that they're they're speaking about for the parking.

V

Have little indents,, you know where bikes and.

V

Scooters can park it's. I have to tell you in the alma heights neighborhood. we're finding them all over the sidewalks. they're in the street.

V

I've find it in front of my house on the sidewalk laying laying over on the side at nighttime.

V

The lighting is not that great now hyde's streetlights another thing.. I want to talk about at one point actually, but not in this meeting.

V

And the tripping hazard is incredible.

V

Because of that, the lack of streetlights.

V

And so I think you know,, I love the the.

V

The alternative mode of transportation that the scooters provide.

V

However,, the management of it is something is if it's managed, right,. I think it will be a great a.

V

Great opportunity to offer another mode of transportation here.. I also have a solar bicycle, which.

V

You know, I'm trying to work on that alternative mode of transportation, myself.

V

But I think, if we're going to become this town, that the mayor says we want to become, and you all are, you know.

V

Obviously, we have a great city. Council.- thank you guys.

V

To support alternative modes of everything, we need to be thoughtful about it and really try to put the public safety first.

V

And not just let oh my god, somebody come here and just drop something in our town.

V

And nobody knows what to do with it, so I'm trusting that you all were are going to come up with a great solution for that, and thank you so much for your time.

A

Thank you for your comments. Anyone else in the public like to speak.

W

Good evening council members., my name is alan quatro.. I wish to draw your attention to an ongoing lawsuit.

W

Against the city of san, diego by a disability rights, advocacy group.

W

This lawsuit hasn't necessarily been resolved, as of yet.

W

But it shows that there is an importance to act on this to put a stake in the ground. that might help this. This.

W

Current set up this current business, that's been growing.

W

The limes, the the birds, you, you have a responsibility to help it grow with these regulations, but to help it grow responsibly as well.

W

There's currently a president being set and the lack of bloomington's regulations are.

W

It is possible that the lack of regulations would bring a similar.

W

Lawsuit down upon this city without definitive action., I.

W

Urge you to get out ahead of what has been said several times this evening. The learning curve of these businesses growing.

W

And to well get out ahead of it.

W

This would help to protect both the interests of the citizens, as well as the businesses that are going to.

W

Be moving forward., I thank you.

A

Thank you for those comments.

X

My name is rowan candy.. I have a bit of a physics question that I don't know the answer to.

X

We've talked about in the ordinance the proposed ordinance a maximum speed that these.

X

Scooters might have, but I actually care more about the braking capacity.

X

I know that's not a subtle question, because we don't want them to break too quickly that will throw people off into dangerous situations.

X

But it feels to me that we need to, I think.

X

Try to establish that a known braking distance for these scooters and.

X

Therefore, be confident that a rider can stop safely and encourage these companies to look into the.

X

Engineering and I know there's many engineers out there- mechanical electrical that can actually figure out the.

X

Damping and the breaking process to maximize our opportunity to make these vehicles safer.

A

Thank you. thank you.. I don't know if anyone can speak to it., but that was just the slowing down that matters to me. yeah.

A

Anyone else from the public like to speak.

A

So,, so I just they want to take any other places if they were trying to tip up here, yes,. So.

A

So so, um, we generally allow one opportunity for comment,. So.

P

Yeah,, um if, if you could would be meeting again next week,.

A

Of course, to discuss this they're making to make an actual decision, because tonight's decision., of course, is just a.

A

Just a committee, a recommendation to the full council at a regular session., so you'll have another opportunity.

A

To if you stick around talk to us afterwards or send an email to council members through the council office.

A

And mr. van deventer did you have a comment?? I mean you've answered questions for us and we appreciate that very much.

A

This is your opportunity to make a comment. yeah this so.

E

This is my public comment and I'll be around afterwards. If anybody wants to ask me questions out in the lobby.

E

I have business cards and stuff like that. again.. My name is david van deventer.

E

As I stated before and my previous appearance before the council,, I was born and raised here in this town.. I've lived here.

E

Gone through some growing pains as we've gotten a little bigger and downtown's changed quite a bit.

E

Miss spaceport.

E

But I wanted to give a little background so lauren right here, locally, we're encouraged as operations managers to kind of own our business and.

E

We are very very concerned about safety.

E

My guys that go out and patrol around town. they are physically inspecting the scooters as they go around.

E

Those people are paid a living wage, by the way.. I want to make sure that's known.

E

We also have people who go and collect scooters in the evenings. It charge them.. Those people are making money.

E

They're reporting to me. they're using it to buy cars. they're using it to take their.

E

Significant others out for dinners,, so it is bringing money into the local me as well.

E

We are being proactive in you know, participating in the city street fair to promote safe riding.

E

And you know talk about the environment.

E

I participated unsolicited in the helmet giveaway at.

E

Indiana university, I just kind of showed up and gave out my own helmets.. We will be giving away helmets at the city street fair.

E

And we will also be demoing our new scooter with the new technologies and stuff like that in it.

E

I wanted to say earlier: two people were talking about cars and everything like that.

E

Globally, one third of our riders- and I know I mentioned this before- but our reporting- that they are replacing car.

E

Trips with scooter rides so there one out of three people are replacing rides that would otherwise be taken out by personal vehicles.

E

Taxis, ubers, more friends, dropping people off on tenth street.

E

Currently, I have eight people that are working with me.

E

And, like said those people do make living wages.

E

I wanted to highlight that we have been very responsive.

E

To any complaints from the city that come from morgan.

E

She'll text me or email me.

E

She'll afforded me the new reports and I can you know,. I have people working typically 24 hours a day and.

E

We respond very quickly.

E

We've also been very reflexive and responsive and.

E

Anticipating so like the lighting of the christmas lights at the square,.

E

I had my guys pulling people are pulling scooters outside of the event before we were ever asked to.

E

Same thing., I've already talked with the people running the city street fair will be doing the same thing. There.

E

So we've been making sure that they aren't in people's way.

E

So I just wanted you to know those are some of the things that we are doing.

E

Nearly everything in the ordinance. we're already doing.

E

Plus some in some cases so.

E

That's kind of it,, but I just wanted,, you know those things. So thank you for your time.

E

Thank you for sharing that with this anyone else in the public like to comment at this time,.

A

Signal on public comment,, we'll come back to council and if, if council members have additional questions for staff or.

A

We feel free to go ahead and ask them now. Oh.

A

Counselor and piedmont smith.

N

Um, yeah,, I think councilmember pollan mentioned that you know, we're seeing other modes of.

N

Transportation as well, and I.

N

Think he mentioned hoverboards. I have seen on campus the electric skateboards.

N

So are in an effort to be proactive.

N

Should we also be thinking about electric skateboards, or are they? How are they currently governed?.

N

Can you speak to that place?.

C

Yes,, I think that's a great question. You know,, I think I'm sort of half mentioned this before, but the definition right now of bicycle in the city code.

C

Defines bicycle as including similar motorized devices., so that's also defined as a bicycle.

C

Which, for the moment, is how we've categorized motorized scooters now,? That's not perfectly precise.

C

But for the moment when staff goes to regulate things like electric skateboards,, which you will see around town, we use.

C

We apply the same requirements that are applied, the same rules that are applied to bicycles to those electric skateboards.

N

Ok,, well, that's good to know so there are some regulations. There are some regulations.. Thank you.

M

um Comment final comment:.

M

Seriously, oh, thank you. mr. rallo.

Y

D

Alison, what would you prefer? okay. all right, just a couple of observations. One is that I'm really unconvinced that dhokla scooters are a positive addition to our community.

D

It certainly hasn't helped matters that the companies chose to dump their product on the community.

D

First without and then ask permission later, and that was, I think, a great miscalculation. I.

D

I don't know about the public relations department,, but I think they may want to.

D

Ask them if this is the appropriate way forward, because I'm sure it's received the same sort of response from a number of communities.

D

But apart from that- and I'm also very I'm very appreciative that the.

D

Mr sorry, van deventer, is that correct?.

D

It came to this evening., I'm very unimpressed that represented from bird chose not to come.

D

Because this is serious, it involves injuries, involve safety in the community.

D

I'm very concerned about the number of injuries observed and and described by the physicians that may be.

D

On the order of ten fold greater than bicycles., I.

D

Think the demographic makeup of our community ensures that those sorts of injuries will probably happen.

D

Every year, because, as new students come, they probably will be an inexperienced and.

D

Are prone to to have those injuries?.

D

So perhaps a ban is the best approach.. I don't know.

D

I'm still wondering, if that's the case now for people who own private scooters.

D

I have nothing against that. I mean by all means, but I'm talking about these companies that have just simply.

D

Released them on our community and expect us to sort it out.

D

Maybe at least removing them from sidewalks is the way to go. That would reduce hazard for pedestrians strands.

D

I think sidewalks are for pedestrians. Frankly, I have a number of elderly constituents that are afraid to use sidewalks at times because of the hazard and.

D

And, of course, for people who have various disabilities, we go through a great deal of effort to make sidewalks accessible for people with disabilities.

D

And I think it's very unfair than to put them in competition with.

D

Scooters, and that are many times blocking their their way and result in injury and so forth.

D

I think that's outrageous., it's appalling. Actually,.

D

That people could be so negligent, I'm not sure about enforcement., I'm not sure that weather enforcement is going to happen.. I'm.

D

Curious about the means by which we go about that. and, as I said, police have enough to do without.

D

Ticketing scooters now it doesn't mean that one must ride scooters in busy roadways,. We haven't enough calm streets in town that they could. They could.

D

Ride,, I think, without you know, having having a problems with cars on those streets.

D

I suspect that the dhoklas bicycles,, which I actually liked coming to town and actually went through the process of getting permitted.

D

Could not compete with the scooters, so I'm in a quandary.

D

Perhaps if we keep them reducing the speed from 15 miles an hour.

D

To some lower minimum maximum speed- and we can do that.

D

Apparently electronically is the appropriate measure, at least for the time being, which would result in lower.

D

Injuries just simply because the momentum of these things would be would be less., so maybe that's an option.

D

I'm really unsure about how green these things are., I mean, they're charging electricity,, which is coal coal generated at this point,.

D

I think most of the scooters are for pleasure trips and or to to get to a destination.

D

Faster,, it's not it's not replacing cars.

D

I'm unconvinced about that.

D

So at this point, I'm tonight by the way, 59% of the city survey, respondents.

D

Favored prohibiting east scooters affirmed sidewalks., so the majority would prefer that. So I take that into account.

D

So at this point, I may be producing some, maybe with a cooperation colleagues, some amendments.

D

For regulation, but I'm undecided whether or not they just may need to go completely.

D

Thank you, councillor chopra.

F

Yeah,, I appreciate.

F

Comes my mirallas comments about a.

F

Total ban,, which I think is unfortunate., I like the scooters., I think they're fun.

F

They're enjoyable to ride like a bike and they're also useful.. I've used them for mid-distance.

F

Trips, those that are seemed.

F

Too long to walk but still ii to get in a car- and I think they're really useful for that.

F

But I don't my concerns trump.

F

That fun and convenience for me. my concerns are mostly what mr. crane brought up.

F

I appreciate you coming back because I know that you were here a couple weeks ago.

F

Accessibility for people with wheelchairs is my number one concern here and I.

F

I don't think that this legislation will.

F

Solve that problem., I'm not convinced that it will.

F

Mm you know,. I don't think that the scooter should be parked on sidewalks.

F

Whatsoever nowhere, but the problem with that is to say, okay.. Well, you you put the boxes around.

F

Well, you're never gonna have enough boxes, and let me tell you why because they're convenient for those mid distance trips.

F

So if I'm taking a scooter for a.

F

Quarter or one mile ride.

F

What you think, I'm gonna walk another quarter mile to find a place. To put it.

F

No, I mean that's why fun and convenient, because you can get on them, on-demand, get off them on-demand and just put them where you know,, wherever.

F

You know what I use them.. I put them in a place that don't that is not.

F

Obstructing others,, but I don't think the majority of people are doing that.. I.

F

Do understand concerns about safety, but.

F

You know,, we had an increase, it's it's the users, mostly that are hurting themselves.. So that to me is that's unfortunate.

F

But it's not as compelling. so.

F

As much as I had said,, I really like the scooters.. I think they're convenient and they're good and they're a great idea.

F

I just I don't see this legislation solving any of the problems that we're having.

F

So,, I'm I'm gonna pass tonight,. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor granger.

M

Thank you,. I can say that the scooters look like fun,, but I.

M

I have balance issues, so you don't want to see me on a scooter.

M

But I think they do have a purpose in the community and I think people do enjoy.

M

Using them for reasons that mr. chopra mentioned, but I.

M

I think this perhaps this legislation doesn't go far enough., I'm going to be considering some amendments, but.

M

My concerns I'm very concerned about the the safety.

M

And perhaps a way to mitigate that as to reduce the maximum speed that.

M

Might help it if we had, I think mr. bowen said there were.

M

18% users, who responded to the survey and if 9%.

M

Have been involved in actual accidents, 9% of the total respondents., that's still.

M

Half of the users because they were involved in a scooter accident so that.

M

That just that really concerns me.

M

I would like to see a committed public safety response to these issues and that may be increased police officers.

M

I think I've been asking for an increase in numbers for years, and this might be the.

M

Opportunity we're looking for.

M

The other thing that that concerns me I.

M

Visited the lime site, lime access and I think it's great., I mean,. I think that we do need to.

M

If we're going to provide this, we need to provide it across the board., but lime access.

M

It takes them two days to reply to request.

M

To get a reduced fee, so you won't be taking it to any.

M

Short midterm ride and that we need to figure out.

M

How to make it accessible for people.

M

I am glad that we are thinking about this, because this is we, I think, we've all had a lot of.

M

Feedback from people for the scooters against scooters, not on the sidewalks on the sidewalks, and I think it's.

M

If they're gonna be here,, then we need to figure out ways to regulate them that works for them. For the most of us.

M

That's most effective.. Thank you.

A

Thank you, councilmember piedmont, smith.. Oh.

A

Well,, I think, council member, if I'm gonna, go that way. Edna councillor sandburg had her kind of hand a full. While back I.

I

I certainly want to applaud the administration for addressing the issue which we've all been struggling for a while.

I

And as councilmember rollo points out, when things are just dropped on us, it forces us to have to scramble to.

I

Figure out.: how is the best way forward, and I think this is a good first step.

I

I share some skepticism along with councilmember rollo.. I was skeptical about the whole idea of.

I

Bicycles on sidewalks, especially in crowded areas where there could be, you know, negative interactions with pedestrians or.

I

Individuals with disabilities and chairs, and my understanding is what we have regulated for bikes.. We now are forced to agree to four scooters.

I

And so there is some concern about how we make sure that is more appropriately regulated.

I

And again,, I agree sidewalks, I think, tend to be. You know, for people who are walking, which is the greenest form of transportation.

I

So again, good first start like some of the others. I think I will pass tonight because I would like to see what we might do.

I

To perhaps tighten up some amendments and again I'm looking at these three companies, whyme bird and spin.

I

And I will be looking at the ones that are going to be a part of the solution with us and I think, as we.

I

Go further down the road. We can tighten this up even more and maybe only allow one of the three to operate if they will be good business.

I

Citizens of this community and help us this business of people. just leaving them wherever.

I

And they fall over and there in the sidewalk that cannot stand.. I mean something definitely needs to be done about that.

I

And so there's a lot more.. I think we're going to need to look at this being a pilot.

I

We're all in a situation that we've never had to deal with before.

I

It is a good first step,, but I'm not sure I can vote for it in its complete.

I

The proposal that's presented with us tonight., so I too will pass. Thank you.

A

Councilmember turbo.

J

Different options, I think we have to have real enforcement and I think we'll have to have a full time.

J

Person who is assigned just to scooter.

J

Management, scooter, education, scooter.

J

Enforcement on the street,, you know, and that's kind of a cool job.

J

Somebody has to ride around on a scooter and make sure everyone's behaving themselves and.

J

Teaching them of the rules and teaching them of the dangers so that they've come here and expand our.

J

Unsuspectingly, it's going to experience.

J

The second option, if I think, if we think that enforcement is simply not going to have that we have a bunch of rules.

J

Nobody ever reads: them.. Nobody ever wears a helmet,. You know.

J

Sidewalk only is something that is a total option: keeping people off the sidewalks street only.

J

The state has allowed us to treat electric scooters differently than bicycles, that's recent, and it happened because.

J

Indianapolis has banned them from sidewalks.

J

So has in ann arbor, so as oklahoma city,. Those are two college communities.

J

So is atlanta in seattle, and this is just some initial research- that's been done by stacy, jane rhodes, for.

J

For a council that is a possibility, but then there's that other danger of then you're in the street and it's even more dangerous.

J

And I don't know how to measure my responsibility or council's responsibility.

J

When we sign off on this, but the day is gonna come when that those parents are going to come down and they're their son or daughter.

J

Have been badly injured or dead because of scooter accident,, you know mit's the first week.

J

They got a little drunk, they got on the scooter we've, given it the okay. we've, given it the green light.

J

With full knowledge that these are dangerous, that people are injured on these scooters that there's a likelihood that someone will be very badly hurt and people have already been very badly hurt and I'm hearing from.

J

Hospital administrators hospice,, we all just heard and the you know, sending them up in the helicopter- means they're pretty hot.

J

They're in real danger, you know, it's lucky that no one's died so far.. I think that's a fair statement.

J

So what is the level of our responsibility when we sign off?.

J

You know,, I don't I never thought of sitting in this chair and having that kind of responsibility,, but.

J

Maybe we do and we should reflect on that., so I'm still passing.. These are three options.

J

Keeping them off sidewalks is better for the community. they can't park. They can't dump them everywhere. There. the use will probably diminish.

J

Because it's not as good to ride them on streets., the enforcement will be easier because it's really pass/fail.

J

You're on a sidewalk or you're, not you know,. All these other rules, you're in the zone.

J

You're not in the zone you're you know,, so that becomes easier to enforce.

J

And then there's the the easy way to have someone who is.

J

Educating enforcing watching making sure the rules are followed.

J

Trying to teach safety trying to encourage helmet use.

J

Talking to people when they leave them carelessly on the sidewalk,, so.

J

I'm gonna pass., I don't know which of these three is the best option.

J

A

O

I I want a challenge: counselor granger, to see who looks, clumsy or less balanced on a scooter her or me.

O

I can tell you that I'm no, I'm not very graceful on one,, but I have ridden them and I would ride them.

O

For practical reasons to get somewhere, as customer chopra said where it's somewhere between.

O

Walking and driving it's new too short, to drive too long to walk.

O

But I haven't ridden it much.. I could be blown over by a strong breeze just.

O

Fair warning, get it get away from me from on a scooter. Cars were disruptive technology.

O

Well had to come to that, I want to say first, the companies didn't need to seek permission anymore.

O

Than delivery, trucks need to seek permission to deliver stuff by double parking on the street.

O

Newspapers didn't need permission to chain a box to a post., although we eventually passed rules for that as well., they were putting boxes in the right-of-way.

O

The emergent technology that has made this new service possible is not the scooter which has been around for decades or the internet, which is a little newer or mobile phones.

O

Although that the mobile phone camera is crucial to the business model of this new.

O

Industry, it's the battery., it's the battery in your cell phone.

O

Which is connected to the internet and the battery and the scooter, which makes it viable and innovative form of transportation.

O

We saw shared use bicycles and they were dead. People just aren't using them.. It's the battery power that has made scooters scooters.

O

Go viral in real life, so yeah cars were disruptive technology back when the square was full of hitching posts.

O

And we needed a boardwalks to avoid the mud and the dung from horses and the unpaved streets.

O

The issue here since then has always been about how much we take for granted the privileges that we have allowed cars to possess and.

O

Retain the expectation that this street will be clear for them to go 30 or 40 miles an hour.

O

Even though the speed limit says 25 or less.

O

In a central urban street so for someone to say that scooters should be banned, but cars should continue to be able to operate at anything faster than 20 miles.

O

An hour is being very hypocritical.

O

This is once again about students. The data we've heard tonight has been anecdotal about injuries.

O

But the survey done by the city,- none of it is scientific.. It's enough that our concern is justified.

O

The the injuries we've seen and we have acted as the administration is done., very good work.

O

They've not been sitting still, the council is taking seriously this issue,, but we need to be careful not to pass judgment on data.

O

That's not reliable.

O

Councilmember sandberg did say the proposal is a good start.

O

I agree with that and I expect it's going to be a couple of amendments between now and next week and.

O

Like we said with men, much of the legislation, we can always fix it in a few months.. I think the television industry.

O

Line is, we can fix it in post? Can always you know, improve it later.

O

Meanwhile,, let's remember that 70% of rides on bloomington transit alone are student writers without them without the money that students.

O

Pay to bloomington transit for the transportation fee.. We would have one of the worse transport systems in the state of indiana.

O

Once again,, I hear people letting that very, very familiar local bias against students clouding their judgment.

O

The idea of a dismount zone downtown is crazy to me at this point.

O

We wouldn't need a dismount zone if we just slowed car traffic on those same streets. If a driver is afraid of.

O

Injuring a scooter user, the driver should be more careful.

O

Full-Stop, maybe I should come to a full stop.. I.

O

Weigh 240 pounds the typical scooter weighs 25 to 30 pounds.

O

The toaster I drive a little, I drive a little nissan cube. It weighs 2,800 pounds.

O

With me on the scooter versus me in the car., it's more than 10 times greater weight.

O

I have a greater responsibility and it takes a longer distance for me to stop in that and it does on a scooter.

O

As a city, we do not have to continue endorsing top speed for 3,000 pounds of vehicle.

O

You know why can't we and when scooters go 50 miles an hour?.

O

The average speed drivers can drive in downtown streets around 15 miles an hour anyway, practically speaking.

O

Bloomington transit bus can operate at ten miles an hour when you count all the stops they make and the.

O

The traffic that they incur throughout the city.

O

So if we were to slow down traffic on the roads.

O

To 20 miles an hour or less for all traffic, including cars, we could raid. We could return the ban on.

O

Bicycles and scooters on sidewalks.

O

Why is nobody thought about that yet?? Is it because cars should absolutely continue to have priority.

O

We're living in a new world if we think scooters are the end of it. we're mistaken.

O

100 years, ago,, that's exactly how fast people traveled scooters are basically effectively the new horses.

O

Listen to the phrases we use, we talk about parking meters and parking spaces.

O

We need to rethink our vocabulary there, car parking spaces there, car parking meters.

O

We need to have scooter parking now because it's getting in the way, because people living on the sidewalks.

O

But every time we talk about parking and we don't think about all kinds of parking.

O

You know we're continuing to reinforce the idea that the cars have priority and they should be able to go 30 miles an hour and they kill people at much.

O

Greater rates than any scooter will much greater rates everywhere.

O

But you know, and to keep in mind that this ordinance says at parking tickets for scooters will be the same cost as for cars.

O

$30, the double 260., all right., so scooter drivers are now going to have increased responsibility. Much more.

O

Appropriate to car operators, but this doesn't let scooter users or bicyclists or other coaster users off the hook.

O

Like a three thousand pound car, a fifteen mile, an hour scooter or bike and injure or kill a pedestrian going 3 miles an hour.

O

Whoever is going faster has the greater responsibility.

O

Whoever is growing going faster has the greater.

O

Responsibility even then, pedestrians wearing headphones in public rights-of-way.

O

Bear the modest responsibility of being aware that their presence.

O

Affects the flow of foot traffic on the sidewalk and when they cross the street with headphones in.

O

They are not using the public right-of-way properly either, but their responsibility pales in comparison.

O

To somebody operating a vehicle at speed.

O

In copenhagen, I just googled this, the average biking. Speed is 10 miles an hour, a.

O

Reasonably fit rider on a racing bike and go 25 miles an hour.

O

The stopping distance for a typical vehicle at 20 miles an hour is about 40 feet.

O

20 to process it mentally the other 20 to react reaction time goes up at a greater than one to run ratio with every 10 miles an hour or the chart that I googled, but.

O

At 50 miles an hour, we can say safely that it's roughly 15 feet to process and another 15 feet to react so.

O

A scooter user at 50 miles an hour needs about 30 feet to stop. I.

O

Think we should be thinking about limiting the speed of the scooter to 12 miles an hour or maybe even 10,.

O

And when was the last time anyone read the rules of the road for drivers?.

O

We passed the you know the required. We passed a thing.

O

That allowed bicycles to be on sidewalks because we couldn't enforce it. People were doing it anyway,, and this way we removed liability.

O

It wasn't that we were trying to encourage bicyclists to ride on sidewalks that we were trying to decriminalize it.

O

And that's all that that's happening here now. I think the whole dismount zone downtown should be painted a painted box. Like the bike boxes are now. We should be putting.

O

Up signs to go along with the painting of street surfaces, scooter parking on sidewalks outside of downtown.

O

Yellow curbs on residential streets,, you know,, this is the kind thing. we need to be thinking about. The idea of banning them.

O

I think is absurd and really we're talking. I mean because half that what I've been hearing tonight, the critique I thought I hear the word.- it's the students.

O

It's the students; students are. Writing.- it students or citizens. They live here.

O

Some of them ride too fast, some of them write, drunk., there's.

O

43,000 students here. there's not that many of them doing.

O

We should not be painting them all with the same brush.. We should be doing what the administration has done.

O

I want to commend the administration.. I've observed them working.

O

I was out for about two months and I think that, but I was, I filed enough of what they did to.

O

Say that I believe they did a great job with this legislation and it's a good start.

O

And we can improve some of it, but we shouldn't not pass this because we want something stronger.

O

Let's pass it and then add to it as we see fit. Thank you.

A

Councilmember sims., thank you.

L

Well before I get there, I do want to thank the administration as well, and our council counterpart for the hard work.

L

They've done to come up with some of these, and I do anticipate some changes.

L

And for those looking in on cats and those here in the audience again,, I periodically will say.

L

When we get issue items like this, all of a sudden, we'll get bombarded with emails and other.

L

Communications and some of them that day of.

L

Of the council meeting, so I just kind of want to apologize that if we didn't answer you or if I didn't, we will get to that.

L

So,, I don't want anybody hold that against us, especially if I get maybe 60% of them.

L

Around noon today, now, fortunately or unfortunately, multimodal transportation options is one of the things that we're promoting in our transportation plan and our ud and some of our city planning.

L

So they're here.

L

If, in fact, you have an unfortunate accident in a swimming pool,.

L

I don't hear very much discussion on banning swimming pools.. I.

L

Think there's some other options that you take care to make them safe. and I think that's part of what we're talking about here tonight.

L

Something else- and this is you know.

L

We're bloomington if bird in lyme and other scooter companies. As I understand it, are lobbying the state.

L

Legislators as we speak, not that that's a threat., not that I'm saying anything at all.

L

But banning I don't think is an option.

L

It's not something I wouldn't want, but don't be surprised if there's not some sort of something from the state that.

L

Disallows communities from banning things.

L

Bloomington get you speak, we're kind of useful,, but don't be surprised of that now.

L

I'm not saying that's a reason not to consider some of the things we're talking about,, but that's not not a place that on.

L

I'm looking to go.

L

Full-Time enforcement and- and I think there will have to be some one of the things I'm concerned about.

L

Is that if we do that? How much of that is a responsibility of the companies that are bringing them?.

L

You know,, I mean,, I'm okay with education and full time.

L

But if we add another fte, if we add another at my next question- is who pays for that.? I.

L

Mean,, I think we throw about a lot of stuff out here and we don't think about who pays for that.

L

We're doing with taxpayer money here!

L

So that's my question: when you come with these ideas who pays for it., I'm not saying they're, good or bad.

L

That should be one of the considerations who's going to pay for that.

L

It's either yes, or no in many cases that we're discussing.

L

Are pretty much always promoted that there's there's a middle ground in here that there's a way that we could compromise that we can.

L

Collaborate, we can I've heard a lot of good suggestions.

L

Tonight- and maybe you know, banning them on sidewalks downtown is a way to go and, and you know and or or you know,.

L

Using the bike lanes more,, you know maybe that's the way, but there is a compromise here that I think that we're looking for some common ground here.

L

Fortunately, unfortunately,, I wish we could deal with this tonight,, but I'm glad we got more time.

L

So we can think about it and consider some other things, and I just want to thank everyone for their.

L

Comments tonight.

L

I don't know whether to pass or not. I really wouldn't pass. I'm really think I will support this with some of the changes and the amendments and the compromises that I feel will be coming. so.

L

Thanks, everyone for participating, my council members and.

L

A

Thank you. mr. simms comes from people, not smith,.

N

Yes,, I appreciate all the the comments from my colleagues.. I think there are a lot of.

N

Things to think about in the next week before we take this up again.

N

Some possible amendments, the ordinance that I've been considering is expanding. The dismount zone.

N

And requiring all scooter parking in the dismount zone to be on the street and not on the sidewalks. As a matter of fact,.

N

I don't think there should be bicycle parking on the sidewalks either it takes up space that.

N

Pedestrians need and when I say pedestrians, I include people with disabilities.

N

The enforcement is really key and I think that we've had I.

N

Think there has been very little I mean, this is anecdotal, but in from what I've heard and seen myself, there's been very little. Enforcement of the rules regarding bicycles on sidewalks.

N

And they remain a problem in parts of town that are where the sidewalks are used. A lot.

N

Dismount zones are routinely ignored, so I think the only benefit here that we didn't have with the bicycles is that we.

L

We will have.

N

We will have money coming in with the licenses that we can use to hire people to do more enforcement.

N

So so that is a benefit, and I think we should take full advantage of that.

N

I think it's been mentioned casually a couple times tonight,, but I want to emphasize that.

N

These things fall over,, okay, you can have the best intentions park it in the correct way.

N

It's gonna fall over, it's gonna block the sidewalk., so I.

N

I really like the idea, I think maybe a member of the public mentioned that even outside of the dismount zones in various caves., we should have.

N

Boxes on the street for parking these.

N

Because you know somebody could park it on a sidewalk and they'll add park it right on the edge.

N

It'll fall over it'll get in the way., so this is a. This is problematic.

N

And I think I I'm with councilmember chopra. We need to make sure our.

N

Sidewalks are accessible, that is a really top priority., and so I think we can do that with legislation.

N

And I think the scooter companies.

N

Need to pay for it too, to pay for the enforcement and the whatever paint we need on the the streets, and I.

N

Think that this could work, so I'm also going to pass tonight.

N

Please don't think we're all a bunch of wimps by passing tonight,, but I think that there is.

N

You know,, there will be some amendments coming and we will take a stand one way or the other next week.. Thank you.

A

Any other council members who haven't spoken, yet?.

A

I'll just say I agree with everybody: there's a lot to think about here. we're likely to see.

A

Significant amendments proposed for next week and.

A

If you have no problems just boots just passing tonight and.

A

Voting on the amendments and whatever comes forward next week,, so.

A

It's been moving sexes. It will start on my far left councillor december.. Yes,.

L

Yes,, yes, pass pass.

M

Pass pass pass.

O

That's three es three: zero: six: three: zero six.

A

Now we're ready for item number two appropriation ordinance 1902 to specially appropriate from the general fund parts of general fund, local roads, refund motor vehicle highway fund risk management, fund, housing, development fund and vehicle.

A

Replacement fund expenditures not otherwise appropriated., it's not a race.. Mr. roth and.

A

It's a mouthful though, and we should have mr. underwood our controller.

A

In the gallery somewhere to present on this one.

A

Mr. underwood, good evening to you. give me just a few.

Z

Z

Are we ready ready to go?? I will be brief for both our sakes and.

Z

This is our annual year-end appropriation of reversions.

Z

Ordinance 1902 request appropriate portion of the 2018 year of budget reversions by the end of 2018 departments. Reverted a total of four million.

Z

Seven hundred and forty three thousand six hundred ninety five dollars and eight different funds.

Z

Tonight we are requesting reuse of that of just over two million dollars.

Z

Broken down into the following funds, so majority., the money is in the general fund, 1.1 million dollars.

Z

Twenty two thousand dollars in the park's general fund.

Z

$193,000 in the motor vehicle highway 20 two hundred sixty seven thousand dollars in the local road and street fund. Forty five thousand dollars in the vehicle replacement fund.

Z

Thirty one hundred dollars in the risk management and three hundred and fifty thousand dollars in the housing trust fund.

Z

This is the breakdown in the general fund. I won't read through all of those sorry that it it gets a little busy.

Z

It always looks a little different when you're looking at it, your screen., I have to give kudos to the legal department.

Z

They've requested that $100, so you might ask a lot of questions about that. One.

Z

As I said, we're requesting just over two million dollars out of the four point, seven. that'll leave another.

Z

2.7 million dollars that will remain in the cash reserves.

Z

Gfo a recommends a minimum of two months in your.

Z

General fund and radiator fund I've done a little calculation here that the combined end of the year general and rainy day fund was.

Z

Twenty million two hundred thirty six thousand dollars, we have accounts payable account., we call encumbrances and the government of two million 488.

Z

Less the requested of reversions of 1 million.

Z

135 would leave in that cash balance of 16 million six hundred and twelve dollars and six six hundred and three dollars.

Z

The general 20:19 general fund budget was 45 million 183 to 42. That gives us coverage of 36.8%.

Z

Which is about three and a half percent over the goal of 33.3%.

Z

And then this is just the exhibit of the d'haran cash balances in those funds of just under 30 million dollars and.

Z

I did include in your packet a detailed breakdown of those requests for departments. If you have questions about those.

Z

Specifically,, I will try and answer them however,. If you have specific questions on departmental requests, and I'll, try and answer it.

Z

But if not,, if you would email me and the department head, will make sure that we have more detailed answers, if you have them.

Z

For next week's meeting happy to answer questions.

Z

Thank you, mr. underwood questions from council councilman rolla.

D

Well, some details planning and transportation schmidt development services, a.

D

Total $175,000., what was that?.

D

Was that involved, I believe, they're helping out in some of the.

Z

Local zone plans., so this is a continuation of that this is, and it's also backfilling on the planning, transportation.

Z

You know, they've had a number of vacancies., so this is outside consulting help to help us fill that gap as well like we can get you more detail., okay?.

D

Maybe I can find some more detail in the meantime.

D

Housing development fund number nine, nine, zero, five, the.

D

$350,000 for han department., could you describe?? Yes,.

Z

President, the majority that is remember we did a million dollar appropriation of that fund and, as.

Z

Han department was working with the crescent development group to finalize that.

Z

The actual agreement was not done by the end of 2018., so.

Z

They didn't they misunderstood that that money would not stay in.

Z

Play it wasn't encumbered, so it reverted so we're just pulling us back in. I see okay. thanks other questions from council. Oh.

A

Customer pick matt smith.

N

Yeah,, I need to follow up on math on the previous question., so.

N

Crescent development group for the development on.

N

South of 17th street on crescent, I.

Z

May have misspoke on who that's I've got it in my head that way, but it was the major grant that.

Z

Housing, a neighborhood development was working on for affordable housing and that complete agreement was not completed by the end of 2018.

Z

So the money just went back into the fund., it didn't revert back to the general fund or anything like that.

Z

This just pulls it back in so that it funds that fully funds that agreement.

N

Okay, thank you. um,. I do have some specific questions.. I don't know.

N

Maybe these are ones that I'll have to email.

N

The hvac replacement in the showers building., I thought that that was already in the budget is that.

N

$100,000 is that an additional amount? that was right as you'll? Remember, we've been doing that pieces at a time.

Z

So, every time we have reversions or additional funds, your end funds. We apply to that project., so we're getting down towards.

Z

The end of that completion., I think we're on this end of the building., so.

N

Okay,, so that's a type of project that can be done piece by piece, right?.

Z

There's multiple units, so they can replace units at a time. yeah,, there's not one huge unit, the funds, the whole thing.

Z

And yes, we're trying to do a better job of balancing the heating and cooling.. I'm.

Z

Pre-Empting a question that the commissioner, but one might ask me.

N

The winslows sports, complex, batting cage demolition hasn't that already been done?. That was in the paper today?. I believe.

Z

I'm going to ask that question myself, because the funds haven't been appropriated.

Z

So the department's know that if they proceed with projects before the funding.

Z

Then they not have to, they will not be able to do another project.

N

They'll have the wrath of the controller's office. yes. yeah.. It was not a pleasant.

Z

When I pulled up the online version, and so that is I'm going wait a minute. we're talking about that tonight. Vote.

Z

Not it next week,, so.

N

All right. well the other ones, I'll just email to you, because they are specific., okay about different funds. Thank you.

A

Councilmember granger. thank you.. I have a follow-up to the housing development fund, so.

M

Can it, I know it's not part of the reversion., but with, can you tell us how much is in that fund now?.

Z

It's was at about a million for so.

M

And that includes this 350.. Yes,.

Z

Yes, because we appropriated a million dollars in the 2018 and if you'll remember, we appropriated that the remaining part in 2019.

Z

Which was about $450,000. okay., it does are an interest income and some of the expenditures are a repayment.

Z

So we get a little bit and repayments each month., so it stays around that million for money, five. okay.. Thank you.

A

Other questions seeing none anyone from the public want to make a comment. Oh.

A

Councilman granger has another question., I'm sorry.. I was writing. I couldn't write. I couldn't do it. same time. Oh.

M

Office of the mayor consultant for innovation, design, thinking.

M

$10,000., could you talk about that?, I I will. I will have to defer to the mayor's office.

Z

So if you'll just yeah again on those specific type, things.

Z

If you could, do you want me to email that to you or can you yeah, if you just.

Z

So I'll remember so, if you don't mind,, thank you.

Z

Or if you want to send them all to dan and dan can compile it for me and.

Z

We'll get you answered, other questions, oh cousin,, I'm sure.

F

Yes,, I think this might be a question for.

F

Seems like there's a lot of questions that aren't being.

F

Answered which is fine in the public sphere,.

F

Via meeting, I wonder if there would be a time or a place or a way to do so at our next meeting.. I.

F

Appreciate publicly published dottie, but they're, just not as visible or user-friendly as.

F

Presenting at a meeting is- and I think these are important questions.

F

So I guess my question is: is there a way?.

F

For questions to be compiled, but also for the answers to be.

F

Read out loud and up for discussion and at our next meeting, since we can't do that today,.

Z

Certainly,, I would think we've done that we've done that with the budget. yeah,. You know when we have our august rounds. You all.

Z

Compiled a list of follow-up questions and we.

Z

Provide answers and give that document, not only the council, but we post that out on the website under the budget.

Z

So what I'm saying is, I want it discussed publicly like.

Z

Well,, that's what I'm saying. Certainly we, if we get those, we will compile that we will publish it and we can also try and put it up.. I.

Z

Didn't bring this, I didn't as a part of the document tonight, because it's it's kind of busy. so trying to get it.

Z

Formatted, so that it looked well.

F

Saying this well, but I'm not interested in just a document that can be published.

F

No,, that's what I'm saying is. If you send us the questions.

Z

We will answer them and send that document back to you next week.

Z

I will put that up on the screen with the questions and the answers, and I don't have.

Z

Follow-Up. okay,, and that was the intent of sending the exhibit.

Z

When we we submitted, the memo was to give you additional details. So that are my hope was that if you had questions in advance that you could go get those and we would put them.

Z

Do this document,, but we can do that for next week., so I would really appreciate that.. Thank you very much.

Y

To submit your questions to the council office or to.

Y

And so I think it's friday, a good time for you we'd be able to get those questions, so we can turn them around by friday.

Y

And, and that would give the controller's office a few days to do it. does that work for you?.

F

I'm talking about the questions that were posed., I'm sorry just the questions that were posed tonight is what I was referring to.. I didn't mean to open it up to this long process.

A

So councilman trevor was that directed more it counting that mr. shermin.

A

Or at mr. underwood,.

Y

I'm just trying to discern a process here., so anything any comments you want to make in that regard could be helpful. okay,. So I.

F

Specifically was just asking if the questions that were asked tonight at a meeting.

F

Would be addressed so I don't even I'm not even requesting that we have a period for submission.

F

Just you know,, we all know what the questions were that were submitted or they're in the minutes or on the record.. I.

F

Don't question.

Z

We're happy to try and answer any and all questions where they're asked public to the night or you want to submit some?.

Z

After the fact, then, we can get you those answers and we can have them so that they can be discussed.. Thank you.

Z

I'm just asking that they we compile them because.

Z

I'm not writing them down and I don't do a very good job of trying to write down questions and talk. At the same time,.

Z

A

If you have a question, well,, I was just going to recommend that everybody send their questions to mr. underwood via email.

N

There's no need for council staff to take time to do that. I mean,. Thank you.

Z

Okay,, that's fine. any other questions from customers and.

A

We had an opportunity for the public, so her final comments.

D

A

Start am I right with customer l? oh,? Yes,.

M

Pass yes, pass. yes. yes., yes,.

I

A

7:02 recommendation passes and that concludes our business for tonight.. We're adjourned.