City of Bloomington, Indiana City Council, 27 Mar 2019

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From YouTube: Bloomington City Council March 27, 2019

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Agenda, Committee of the Whole Memo, Packet : https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=4420

A

I'm calling to order this meeting of the common council committee of the whole for.

A

Wednesday march 27th 2019, and we have one item on the agenda.: do we call roll call roll.

A

We have one item on the agenda and I am chairing this meeting in place of council member granger at her request tonight.

A

Case of bronchitis- and I also want to just a now it's real quick- that there is. There are child care.

A

Professionals down in the kelley room, 135 that the chamber of commerce has kindly.

A

Arranged for this evening, if anybody wants to take advantage of that.

A

We have one item on the agenda resolution 1906, approving issuance of tax increment revenue, bonds for the city of bloomington.

A

Redevelopment district to finance the cost of acquisition and construction of the fourth street parking garage.

A

In the bloomington consolidated economic development area and costs incurred in connection with the issuance of such bonds,.

A

I need to confer just one moment with my parliamentarian.

A

All right,, so, let's get started. I think mr. adam watson is here to present this resolution great.

B

Good evening, members of council always an honor to be in front of you., as you know, we're here tonight to revisit the.

B

Parking facility bond request for the 4th street garage.

B

I'll just go through a real brief synopsis of where we've been and how we've gotten to where we're at.

B

As you know,, the redevelopment commission did approve a resolution.

B

Authorizing the issuance of a bond for construction, demolition and construction of a parking facility located at 4th street the maximum amount for that would be.

B

18.54 million for a repayment period not to exceed 20 years or a.

B

Per annum rate of 6% and the repayment of the bond will come from a combination of the net revenues of overall garage operations and the tax increment revenues.

B

Overall, one of the main.

B

One of the main things we've been talking about when we talk about this garage and the trades district garage.

B

Is the bond issuance and the cost savings of doing those two bond issuances together in a combined fashion?.

B

By doing so in the combined fashion., we estimate savings of over 1 million.

B

Total dollars, instead of doing those separately., you can see the breakdown there at the bottom of that slide, with site management.

B

Mobilization demobilization general economies of scale and then just the bond issuance cost as well those fixed costs and the savings we can see there.

B

Here just another summary of activity to date, I won't go through all of these.

B

You know, we've been looking into this for many many months and.

B

In my case, probably over a year.

B

With all the different parking studies we've done on this and.

B

To highlight some of the most recent things,, you know.

B

We were in front of the council on.

B

In december and the 19th of december council recommended repair of the instead of replacement for the 4th street garage.

B

Soon, after that, we initiated an updated structural engineers report on the condition of the 4th street garage.

B

Utilizing seee solutions: it's a group that had initiated a had done and completed a structural engineers report.

B

For us back in march of 2018, we did get that updated report on february 15th of 2019.

B

That reports been shared pretty widely,, but that report highlighted urgent high medium and low priority repairs.

B

The high and urgent repairs were those needed to be done to give the life of the garage it missed.

B

Estimated five-year expansion of its current life span.

B

Some summaries, some just highlighted points of.

B

Those structural engineers reports we had the may 2018 report with engineers estimates for repairs at 1.1 million.

B

The updated february 19 report.

B

Listed costs at 1.4 million dollar mark and that 1.4 million does not include additional costs. Soft costs, such as.

B

Construction management, engineering, inspection services and they changed orders or contingencies for unknowns.

B

You know our main concern at this point. Is you know, with the current parking facilities fund, balance of only at 1.5 million.

B

And the other, with the amount of.

B

The amount for the current estimates on repairs, as well as the other capital cost that we have.

B

Needs for at our other facilities,, you know, we're glad the council's revisiting this request.

B

Just to click through to the next slide just make quick mention, you know,. We are.

B

And have been for some time and I give a lot of credit to ryan dailey. Our parking garage managers.

B

We've been making sure we don't get in this position with our other garages. This position.

B

We're preventative maintenance isn't completed on a regular basis and.

B

Got a slide here, and we can provide this with some more information on this as well.

B

But there are ongoing capital costs needs at the other garages.. There are going to be ongoing. Capital costs needs, in addition to the.

B

1.4, plus million dollars of repairs at the 4th street garage on an annual basis,. You know.

B

And that's that's just part of the operations of the garages to make sure that they are maintained to make sure that they are.

B

Going to actually achieve the lifespan that they're originally intended for.

B

I'm gonna make brief mention and then turn it over to alex crowley,. You know.

B

We haven't changed anything in terms of our previous agreements with this garage as far as solar panels as far as bike parking as far as restrooms.

B

Some ground-floor retail one thing to note: you know the park, smart certification, that we would be going at after for these garages trades the district concluded. We would be first garages in the state of indiana to achieve that certification.

B

That is lee.. That is basically, I know, folks are pretty familiar with leed for buildings park. Smart is leed for parking garages and.

B

You know we want to do things the right way.

B

We recognize the environmental sensitivities of the current client conditions of the client and all of that.. We also recognize.

B

The need for parking in the downtown, so I'm gonna turn it over to alex crowley and then we'll be here to answer questions as well.

A

Thank you, mr. wace,. Mr. crowley,.

C

Good evening council members., I'm alex crowley., I'm director of economic, sustainable development. First.

C

Thank you for reconsidering the question of the 4th street garage.

C

We appreciate your openness to support this critical community community infrastructure asset.

C

Especially in light of the clearer view of costs associated with a short-term fix of the existing structure,.

C

The department of economic and sustainable development is uniquely positioned to reflect the spectrums. The spectrum of views.

C

You'll likely hear this evening during public comment., we represent the venn diagram of bloomington's, important economic vitality,.

C

The communities and administration's strong commitment to sustainability and.

C

Our city's vibrant arts and culture organizations.

C

Our department doesn't struggle to align these. We embrace the fact that these three aspects of life in this great.

C

City are mutually supportive; together, they are what we broadly refer to as bloomington's quality of life as.

C

You know vibrant downtown businesses, support the arts, the arts, attract investment and our investments themselves.

C

Investments allow us to build out and take advantage of multimodal infrastructure and renewable energy assets.

C

Those assets improve the quality of our environment,.

C

Which in turn makes bloomington an attractive place to grow a business?.

C

These elements comprising bloomington's quality of life are deeply intertwined and mutually supportive.

C

Part of our role and local government is to help maintain and develop the.

C

Infrastructure and core services that support this quality of life for all residents.

C

It includes, among other things, our streets, our public safety, our.

C

Sanitation services, our drinking water, our public transportation system, our business incubators.

C

And in this case, our parking infrastructure.

C

While the 4th street garage is, on the one hand, fundamentally a place to park, cars and bikes.

C

It's also something that represents an important way. We can efficiently support our quality of life.

C

It stimulates tourism which, as you can see here, brings critical outside money to fuel our downtown economy.

C

The garage sits in the bloomington economic and.

C

I'm sorry bloomington entertainment and arts district the bead and allows people to take advantage of the myriad arts and cultural events in our remarkable.

C

Local organizations providing that our organizations provide each month.

C

It gives employees of, and visitors to our growing downtown employer base a destination point for their commutes and.

C

Many of these employees choose to live out of town.

C

And the garage represents the most efficient and sustainable way to handle the car traffic that comes from all of this activity.

C

Adam enumerated, the sustainability features, including included in our proposal,.

C

We strongly support these, including the solar panels, the electric car facilities in the bike, parking capacity.

C

We have to react to climate change and do our part to reverse the very visible aspects. we're already seeing.

C

Which is in part, while we're actively pursuing our commitment to transportation demand management.

C

Having received just this past monday, the responses to our request for proposal.

C

Transportation demand, management or tdm is often misunderstood.

C

It's fundamentally a way to make single occupancy vehicle traffic alternatives as.

C

Attractive or more attractive to individuals and organizations by providing incentives to stimulate the use of public and.

C

Multimodal transportation assets we recognize, we have a lot of work to do on this front and are pleased to be continuing our commitment to sustainability.

C

By engaging in this important effort, in sum, we appreciate your understanding of the role this garage plays in consolidating vehicles into an efficient and centralized structure.

C

Such that our downtown can continue to thrive.

C

We appreciate your recognition of the importance of economic vitality.

C

Arts and cultural programming and sustainability.

C

And the role that they all have in our quality of life, and we.

C

Recognize that this is a difficult and important reconsideration on your part and appreciate that you're willing to take it.. Thank you.

A

Thank you, mr. crowley is. Does that conclude the administration's is.

A

Alright, yes, it does now we will go to questions from council members.. Do I see any questions? Councilmember chopra?.

D

Two questions off the bat and I was hoping the administration can answer this question.

D

Why are we here again?.

B

Previous decision, after my understanding, is because the council decided to revisit this decision after getting the updated s.

B

Engineers estimates on repairs,, okay,.

D

Could you go into a little more detail about those estimates and the updates and so on what they were, what they are now.

B

Yeah, I'd mentioned that in my part of the presentation, the march.

B

2018 report showed that the repairs would cost 1.1 million dollars.

B

For the five-year repairs, the updated engineer's report from.

B

February of 2019 listed costs in the 1.4 million dollar range. The vast majority of the cost increases are due to advanced deterioration.

B

Of the facility from the march time period or the may time period to february, this was deterioration.

B

That was well above and beyond what was expected of the engineers.

B

Their second visits to the site to update the report.

B

Showed deterioration that they did not expect to see so quickly.

B

So in talking with carrie walden are representative of c solutions.. She said it was shocking. The amount of the.

B

Of deterioration that had occurred and that, you know, roughly nine to ten month time, frame, so.

B

You know those costs are higher.

B

There's several of the formerly formerly medium repairs, medium priority repairs moved up to the high priority. In that short amount of time frame,.

B

The water infiltration and the concrete the.

B

Steel beams that are rusting.

B

You know there are structural issues that are serious enough, that another three hundred thousand dollars of cost was added just in that short amount of time and.

D

My second question is: I know that there were estimates for other options.. I.

D

Was hoping to see some sort of you know, charter graph just like easily see those numbers all at once and I understand I didn't.

D

Tell you that I was expecting that. there's just in my head. I'm. I was trying to put that together. Just for ease of understanding.

D

The different options.

B

Perhaps you could tell me and then I could make my own little. yeah,, so both of the reports have.

B

Been on the city website for some time., I believe they were provided to the council.- I.

D

Understand, you know,, there's people the public here and.

B

Informative, that's my point being that the both reports and in their entirety are on the city's parking facilities website.

B

Okay and are publicly viewable so.

B

From the may of may 25th 2018 report to the.

B

February 2019, the repairs were listed in a in categories of urgent.

B

We took care of the urgent repairs as soon as last year in 2018.

B

Those were repairs that were urgent enough, that if we didn't undertake them quickly.

B

The garage would have closed at that time. The high priority repairs in the marta who may 2015 may 28th.

B

We're the repairs that would need to be made for the five year time frame to expand the time frame of the garages.

B

Lifespan by five by doing the urgent, high and medium repairs.

B

That would have gotten the 10-year time frame.

B

By doing the urgent, high medium and low priority repairs from the may.

B

25Th 2008 teen report that would have been the 15 year time frame.

B

Based on the council decision in december of 2018 to recommend repair for the five year time frame, we.

B

Asked our structural engineers to reevaluate for the five year time frame.. So we don't have updated numbers on 10 and 15 years at this time.. We.

B

Tried to save some dollars on those studies by just asking them to do the five year period.

D

Could you could you just tell us again?.

D

What the I said, 10 and 15 year numbers were, I can't and just.

B

Recognize these are from the may report, not the most recent, so we don't have the most recent updated numbers for that, because.

B

We only asked our structural team to update the five-year costs and that's where some of those medium.

B

Previously, medium priorities moved up into the high priority.

B

But I'm pulling that up right now again.

B

May 2015 estimates for five years was warm 2018.. I'm sorry.

B

May 15th of 2018.

B

So the five-year repairs were the one point. One.

B

One point one, eight minute: one point: one: one: eight million and.

B

For the high and medium priority subtotal., that was two point one seven and for the.

B

High medium urgent, high, medium and low priorities., it was three point.. Oh eight, five again.

B

That's not updated in the february report. only the five year. One is so. I.

D

Apologize,, but I I remember discussing.

D

You know if we repair for a five year repair to make it functional for five years.

D

It was the 1.1 million for 10 years function.. It was this total amount.. So what was that? I'm out.

D

That was that was me, be spent to make it functional for 10 years.

B

You know alex has shown me another spreadsheet, where we actually.

B

Did the indices with for construction cost index?.

B

That was again, the 5-year with that included was the 1.5 million. The ten-year was 2.5 and the 15 was 3.5. That does include.

B

You know the accelerators based on cpi and things like that.

A

I'm just may I just jump in because I wanted to clarify.

A

I think the question is the ten-year repair at.

A

2.17 million is that, in addition to what you pay for the five-year repairs at the total?.

B

Total total,, okay.

A

Are you with that and that, and that does let me clarify too?.

B

That is the total if all of the repairs are undertaken at on day, one.

B

So it wouldn't be that you would do the five-year repairs and then, in five years come back. Would those would all need to be.

B

Done at the same time. sorry, I misunderstood that question. thank you. mm-hmm.

A

Councilmember boland. yes. I'd like to clarify just at the beginning here who sponsored this ordinance.

E

Which member of council sponsored this ordinance? It's a resolution resolution.

E

So,, how did it get on our agenda.

F

Oh vikki, it was, it was council, leadership., okay, myself included and mr. sherman just to be clear.

E

It doesn't resolve by introducing it this evening.

E

This is a committee of the whole it was resolved by first or that this counts, as first reading for resolution, doesn't it?.

E

Well,, that's something we need to clarify. I think okay, specifically,, first of all,, I need to ask for a clarification, is at 1.4 million or 1.5 million.

E

Well, we were talking about earlier that you know, that's got the.

B

Construction construction cost.

B

It's one or the other.

E

Well and council member- these are engineers estimates., so the engineer's estimate is 1.4 million dollars at this time.

B

Again, that does not include any of the soft cost, which would include construction management, engineering, inspection services, any change orders or things like that?.

B

So we'll stick with 1.4 as the engineer's estimate from their report. The other fiscal analysis that we presented back in december.

B

Included other things such as the cpi being included over time and things like that.

B

So I mean,, can you see why I might be disheartened by knowing that well.

E

How much how many times you need to come back and ask for more money?, no matter what the choice is to repair or to replace.

E

You know,, I have questions that I'll ask later about a new garage.

E

You know,: how much is the estimate for the new garage now verses, six months ago,, but.

E

I have other questions. I'm going to with I'm going to wait and ask them, after other people had a chance. Thank you.

A

Councilmember rallo.

G

Mr. wesson, because of the deterioration you mentioned in a meeting between council and the administration some weeks ago,.

G

That this would the garage would require.

G

Inspection on a regular basis, monthly or quarterly. yeah, absolutely.- and this is an additional cost.

G

Yeah, right now see, solutions is under contract with us.

B

And you know to do the initial.

B

Structural engineering investigations for all three garages, that was a.

B

$260,000 contract we didn't attended contract with them to include this additional scope.

B

Moving forward, we would need and and and see, he's been in town regularly, since that may time frame.

B

Continuing to do inspections and such, and that would definitely need to continue throughout any expansion of the life of this garage.

B

And it was my understanding that if.

G

New deterioration arose during those inspections. It might result in the closure of the garage economy any time that we would identify any life safety issues like we had.

B

You know recently and close the grab salutely as soon as those would be identified.. We would be closing that garage again.

G

I have one other question., may I ask it's a simple question and that is.

G

An impasse that we reached last december.

G

Was the height of the garage?, which was indeterminate at that time?.

G

And we have come a long way to resolve that. Could.

G

Could we describe what that?, what the height maximum would likely be?.

B

Minimum I'm gonna defer to deputy mayor mick around eisen on that one thing.

H

Good evening, council members nick ran eyes and deputy mayor. According to our project engineer.

H

The estimate for this this is a an estimate of height.

H

So it's not an absolute because we haven't designed it the structure yet.. It takes into account a couple of variables.

H

The first variable is that, as we all learn in council, member of all of them as part of our interview, team.

H

For the architect and the construction manager as a constructor.

H

For the parking facility at the trades district. we've learned that convertibility.

H

If not intentional, in 10 to 12 years is a waste of money and.

H

I'm paraphrasing our collective 10-person, others of them, are in the audience's understanding of this after we went through.

H

The process of interviewing folks for that project.

H

As a result, and in discussions with the council at an internal worksite session,.

H

We have been able to reduce the height of the structure.

H

Potentially, by only having the ground floor as the convertible for retail 15 foot high.

H

Ceiling and the rest be at a different height., we would still explore convertibility in different ways.

H

You can have flat plates on one side, not the other. They may add height to the structure,, which we know is a sensitivity to the community.

H

So having said those two caveats,, the potential height is now bound by another variable and that's the square.

H

Footprint that we have, if we can build on the existing 4th street footprint at less than 550 spaces, which is what the resolution suggests and the rtc approved, and we.

H

Use that new dynamic design of ground for 215 feet and the rest at normal height, the rest of the floors at normal height.

H

On the existing footprint, we could get 527 spaces on a 78 foot plus or minus structure.

H

That's the estimate from the project manager.

H

If we were able to widen the footprint, that obviously requires.

H

Property acquisition that we can't say at this time whether it would happen or not, we're certainly not going to explore that until the council makes its determination moving forward.

H

That can be spread out over a different distance, and the height could be 68 feet and.

H

544 spaces so 527 on the existing footprint plus or minus 78 feet.

H

527 spaces,, I'm sorry 540 for our bigger footprint.

H

68 feet would be the plus or minus there, and that takes that convertibility as more of an option, except on the main floor.. We would do convertibility.

H

It's not answer your question 68 feet to 78 feet., yes, more or less bounded.. That is correct., and thank you for that clarification.

A

Any other council questions first round councilmembers turbo.

I

So if you wouldn't, you drop us floor on that smaller footprint.

H

So we haven't designed this, so I can't say with certainty.

H

I think you can kind of guess from the number of floors that we would have that it probably between.

H

70 and 80 spaces a floor on the smaller foot.. So is that six floors or what is right, so.

H

15 and 60. yes on the existing footprint.

H

We'd be talking six floors over. Remember that first level- and I know the council is aware of this.

H

Slopes from fourth street to third street, so it at grade at 4th street and.

H

Below grade you get a little bit more exposure of the building facade on the third street side.

H

So it would be six floors over the top of that ground floor.

I

Seven floors 15 seven-county six floors is third. yes,. The third street elevation would look like seven floors, correct?.

H

Who's about the height of the hyatt, that's even higher, because the height has a an element that sticks up above its.

H

Elevator structures that makes it stand out higher than its seventh foot: seven storey profile, right?.

I

So we're about 70 floors that right., I think that's right as an estimate.. I think that's right.

I

Has anyone considered building.

I

In such a way that that last floor could be built after the fact again., we haven't designed any tortured. We have designed anything.

H

I think we're that's certainly and something we could entertain.

I

Okay,, thank you any other first-round questions,. Yes, councilmember ruff.

J

Really interested in the in the longer distance commuting patterns.

J

Mr. crowley, that slide you had up earlier it all. The counties were to the west and I'm counting, even though I know marion county.

J

Is actually east of us, the corridor that people travel actually comes down on the west side of town.

J

So I'm gonna consider all that to the west.. Why is jackson brown?.

J

Not included., we just have such low numbers of commuters from the from the ii-if from the east.

C

Well, you'll see that brown counties listed on the bottom there.. These are the top counties that send us.

C

Commuters brown county at five and when he died without my glasses,, it's so braddock county at 5:29 johnson county at 428.

C

So I just listed really the top ones, how many they're people coming from all over the state.

C

But these are the so is martin county, comparable, probably to brown or bartholomew.

J

Do you know I would have to go back and look at the data,, but probably.

J

Okay., I'm just thinking about this. The geography of of the most efficient placement of.

J

Intense development relative to the people who are least likely in the.

J

Lacking the state, ria's duden, reinstituting, light rail or something., um who are gonna, be forced to drive the most. okay. thanks.. That's all. I want to know.

A

Okay,, that's not. I will ask one: oh.

A

I have so many.

A

Last friday, at our council work session.

A

The city controller jeff underwood, told us that we would soon be seeing a.

A

Appropriation ordinance for.

A

$1,650,000 in reversions that was money budgeted in 2018.. That was not spent.

A

This would be enough to repair this garage. Am I not am I correct.? Is there any reason why we can't just use that money?.

A

To repair the garage it's reversions, therefore, nobody is counting on that to fund their 2019 programming.

A

Comment/Question.

H

It is technically valid that that amount could cover the repair.

H

From the administration's perspective, I would.

H

Counter with two thoughts, it doesn't change the garages condition.. The garage needs to be repaired to an extensive level that.

H

You're now aware of, and it still only.

H

Supplies us five years of lifespan by any estimate that we can get from our engineer.

H

Which means we'd have to come back and tear it down in five years., so the administration came to you in december.

H

And at a 1.1 million estimate thought that was a bad idea, then at 1.4. we think it's a an even worse idea.. So.

H

We would not recommend from the administration's hat.

H

Using that source of funds.

H

On a structure that would have to be replaced in five years, so while it's technically true, you're right that that amount could cover that.

H

That's not how we would choose to spend the reversions and in fact, you know, the department had saved a lot of money and I think they should be credited for that and they do have needs that arise. That.

H

Can't be budgeted for in cycles that the council budget process sets aside, right. We meet with you in august the previous year.

H

Needs changed needs arise.. I think the department should be applauded for saving that money. You of course, could appropriate it for other uses.

H

But they have thoughts on how they'd like to best appropriate it for the best use of the.

H

Residents that they all serve in their departments,, so that would be my coming. okay.. Thank you for that.

A

Mr. underwood., I see you are here., could you just speak briefly to is there anything?.

A

Fiscally legally preventing us from using the reversions to repair the 4th street garage.

K

That's a yes and no question.

K

The combination of reversions may come from multiple funds and some of those funds are not eligible to fund.

K

Repairs to the garage anything that was seen, the general fund would be eligible, the parking meter fund or parking facilities beyond that.

K

There would not be funds that we could use reversions of other funds., so like risk management, fleet maintenance.

K

Parks and recreation, those funds are not eligible to fund those types of expenditures.

A

um In preparation for our vote next week,.

A

Could you please provide me with the amount of reversions? that can't could be used for this purpose?.

K

Yes,, I believe, that's been provided to the council's office and it will be in your packet that goes out this friday.

A

Okay, butbut see, I won't necessarily recognize which funds we can and cannot use. I.

K

Really three funds are the general fund, the rainy day fund, which has no reversions parking for the facilities and parking meters.

K

Those are the four funds that could fund repair of the garage.. No other funds would be eligible.

A

Okay,, that was easy.. Thank you very much second round questions. Oh first round council member samberg.

L

I'm prompted to ask question about the repair itself.

L

Given the further examination and the further condition.

L

Could somebody give an idea what those repairs might look like and- and this is in respect to my concern- for?.

L

Safety, and would anybody coming into that garage and looking to see what's being shored up or?.

L

High-Beams, can somebody give just a brief description as how bad?.

L

The garage currently is and what what will the appearance of those fixes on the inside look like and you know?.

L

How, what's that going to do the confidence of the public trying to park in there? sure.

B

So you can see what some of those repairs look like.

B

You can see what some of those repairs would look like today when we executed the urgent repair in 2018.

B

On the west and the east facing side of the garage.

B

On walnuts or on yeah northbound walnut street.

B

There's about a eight foot by three foot steel plate with large.

B

Better term screws that are that that's a shoring technique to.

B

Stabilize that area of the building. I'll just read a couple of the.

B

How they describe the structural repairs from their opinion of probable cost.

B

Ledger beam, delamination column, korbel, delamination, corroded, steel, plates angles, bolts, double tees, wall panels and stair towers, clean and paint.

B

Exposed corroded steel with spalled concrete ledger beam under sides clean and coat.

B

Structural cracks in the concrete all elements, epoxy injection.

B

You know so, you know, you're, gonna, see you're gonna, see stabilization of the structure with large metal.

B

Large steel plates you're gonna see.

B

You know, one of the major components of this is.

B

Redoing, the for lack of better terms, the internal plumbing of the.

B

Garage the internal stormwater system of the garage that handles all of the water.

B

That's a major portion of the repairs. that would need to be done.

B

A lot of the damage that's occurred is due to water infiltration and the freezing thawing of that water within the concrete.

B

You know there would be a lot of cleaning painting. There would be a lot of epoxy injection.

B

There would be a lot of steel plates used for for stabilization.

B

You know,, those are the sorts of things that would be visible and would take place as part of the repair, project. okay?.

L

If I could follow up even with this shoring up, did I recall appearing in a work session that it might even be less than a five year fix for this additional cost?.

L

B

These these are all you know,, the the costs. Are you know?.

B

The best estimates of the engineering firm, the five-year, is the best estimate of the engineering firm. If these were to be completed, and that's where you know when council rallo asked.

B

About the question of can inspections, we would have an ongoing annual contract with the structural engineering firm for those weather.. You know, they'd, be.

B

Monthly or quarterly or biannually, to start and then towards the you know in year. One.

B

They might be just every you know, every six months year, two, it might be every form of year. Three.

B

It might be every three months quite honestly,, I'm gonna defer to the structural engineers on on their best estimates on when those should take place and.

B

What type of monitoring that should be? I'm by trade.- I'm not a structural engineer! Thank you.

A

Councilmember sims.

M

Thank you earlier. What level of leed certification did we hope to attain? I'm sorry, I missed that.

B

Silver. yeah, silver has always been the intent. I believe.

M

Yeah,, but for parks, smart, not leading.

B

Parks. smart park, smart. yes and they're. Actually, their websites pretty dynamic with the information. it takes or with the the types of things. it takes to achieve those certifications.

M

Okay, and another thing- and I may be premature with this administration- may have to do some other research or something, but in previous.

M

Talks if the garage was to be built,, I mean if it was decided. We've talked about a.

M

Shuttle people mover type system, and I knew that was a part of the plans and it was nobody if this happened, but is there any way we can get some sort of?.

M

A cost estimate for some sort of a route you.

M

Know between garages and in a down downtown area moving people from.

H

Difficult, but councilmember sims., the answer is always yes,. We can.

H

The question is really a longer-term discussion about from where to where? What's the frequency and what are we trying to accomplish?.

H

And so I guess we would need to have a more thorough discussion. One.

H

I think that it's probably time to have with some of the other assets in the downtown that are starting to happen.

H

And the increase in traffic and the tourism and.

H

Convention center construction, that's going to happen all those things in the.

H

The hospital site, the current hospital site structure, that we will be making a decision on.

H

Later this year about whether to keep it or not as part of the hospital purchase.

H

All those things this makes this is a good time to have that discussion.

H

But it really needs to have a whole lot more discussion.

H

Points about what are we trying to accomplish with something like that before?, we could give you a real good estimate of the cost?.

H

Okay, thank you.. I wanted welcome to have that discussion. I do want to depending and particularly where the vote goes., but thank you all.

A

Right,, I guess everybody has had a first round so council member boland was next and then.

E

E

Are we saying that reversions from various funds are not available under any circus?.

E

To parking related expenses are unavailable under any circumstance.

E

Or that it requires a two-thirds vote of council to transfer funds from one.

E

Departments, budget to another.

K

As you're aware over time as the council has enacted.

K

Local ordinances to create funds you've been very specific about those uses for this very reason so that they are not.

K

Transferred to other funds, state funds that are created by the state are much the same way.. I am only aware of four funds.

K

Based on my knowledge of the fund system that we have where we could move funds around to.

K

Repair, the garage general fund, rainy day fund parking meter and.

K

Parking facilities, parking meter fund would take action.

K

By the council and by the controller that a surplus has to be declared available.

K

And that fund by me that would allow you to then move those funds.

K

I've costed you about that, just because we have.

K

Costs associated with that program.

K

That we're going to need to have that. We should maintain a relatively good balance in that fund, as well as all of our funds.

K

But that said, those are the four funds that I'm aware that could go to fund the repairs of that garage.

K

So when, when a fund is referred to as a non reverting fund, what that means is that.

E

Dollars appropriated to that fund, even if they're not spent, they stay, in., that's correct, and it cannot be moved., that's correct., okay,. So that's the.

E

Two parts of non reverting,: okay,.

E

Has I don't notice questions for you or for the others, but.

E

What is the current estimate for the cost of.

E

The first garage, mr. brue nice and described the 527 spaces at 78 feet to the nearest half million dollars.. I.

H

Cannot answer that until design has been completed as the council is aware., we have a very.

H

A very appropriate structure, design with a lot of design.

H

Elements that are unique to get park- smart, certification and items that the council negotiated with the administration.

H

That we it's hard to find a garage comparable to the one we're going to build at the trades or the one we would replace at 4th street.

H

So I don't it's not as simple as telling you. it's.

H

$20,000 of space, until we design it and that's relevant to.

H

The footprint, the art elements and all the other elements, the solar panels and all this.

H

I really can only give you that the range that we've typically seen is somewhere between.

H

22,000 on the low end of space to.

H

33,000 on the high end and that's a wide range because of all those variables that we will not possibly be able to estimate.

H

Until we get into the design phase,.

E

So 22 we're looking at anywhere between 11 and 17 million dollars at.

E

527 spaces roughly, if you did the math, I trust you. okay.. I did not do it in my head.

E

So if what are you asking us to bond for not to exceed the amount?.

H

That would be necessary to build something that was 550 spaces or or less with all of the elements that we've negotiated.

H

That we would like to incorporate into the design of the structure.

H

So this is a resolution requesting you to fund and not to exceed amount.

H

So when will the bond be, how long will it take you to determine the.

E

Design of the garage that you can then bond for it.

H

There would probably be about us.

H

Six-Month design, discussion that will be very public with.

H

Stakeholders and and I think, councilmember ole and you weren't able to attend all of our discussions about the tres district garage.

H

But those very meetings will start to take place next week for the tres district garage and that public.

H

Engagement would be the same thing we would repeat. If you approve a rebuild of the 4th street garage., we would have that at the appropriate time.

H

The architects would bring back a variety of renderings and designs and then we would look at our budget and decide.

H

What is the appropriate height and decisions that influence all the factors that we've negotiated with you and the public?.

H

Ok,, that's my guess. My question is: how do you if there was a slide that mr. crowley presented?.

E

I talked about the synergy of bonding together for both of them.

E

How is that possible when we're already this far down the path with the trades garage?, we always bond for a maximum amount.

H

While you're doing design,, this is not any different than any other parks. Project. I've done in my career.. You have an estimate and you.

H

Bond for that not to exceed that amount and what you don't use you don't use. That's not the question. I'm asking.

E

How did you propose to bond to save money?.

E

By bonding for this together with the trades garage, since that one is already several months down the path.

E

We haven't bonded for that one. Yet.

H

So they would still be done together so that the the economies of scale of doing the bond sale together can still be accomplished.

H

So,, how are you gonna wait? Six months to buy, I don't need to have a full design to do a bond.

H

I'm bonding to the maximum amount.

E

Okay, I have more questions. I'll wait for the rest of them. thank you. and when I said I I don't mean I.

H

Mean,, I know what you me not me.

A

I'm gonna jump in because it dovetails nicely with the previous question.

A

So the cost savings in issuing this bond now with the trades district garage.

A

Those cost savings only are realized or are savings if.

A

Eventually, we do build a new 4th street garage, right? of course,. So if.

A

We have a vigorous transportation demand management program,. We have a downtown shuttle.

A

The economy changes rapidly in the next five years.

A

Is it possible, we won't have to build a new garage?.

H

All right,, that's a speculative question. I am like. I can't answer that. I don't know I can't read the five-year future.

H

Okay, fair enough.

A

Councilmember rallo.

G

My question concerns the.

G

10 year, capital improvement plan for the garages and.

G

Specifically, the 7th street garage and morton garage.

G

It's my understanding that there's still about 300.

G

$750,000 remaining for improvements by 2026.

G

From the parking facilities fund from morton and 7 and 7th street.

G

I'm just concerned about the the balance of the fund and what we can draw from it.

B

And this includes about.

B

Another 250, like 400,000 with forestry mm-hmm between the two over the next.

B

Between all three garages over the next mm-hmm through 2026, the capital, investments that would be needed to be made are in the 4.9 million dollar range.

B

For morton and walnut street garages specifically,, let me run some numbers here: councilman rallo and I can get that for you. yeah.

G

Ok,, that's good.. We can revisit.

G

We can go on if you, like other questions from council members.

A

Council member ruff.

J

This question is private for mr. underwood, on the staff memo in our packet.

J

There's a sense., it says revenue bonds rely on revenues from the project to pay for its costs.

J

But are backed up by an obligation to use property taxes.. If revenues are insufficient., can you sort of flesh that out all the way?.

J

When it comes to this specific project cuz the way it's worded, it sounds like, and I know I understand the council has the ability just to to set rates.

J

To set parking rates,, but that being said, it sounds like. The intention is for the project to pay fully.

J

For itself, and that the backup is definitely a back up idea in the event that.

J

Revenues don't.

K

This is a revenue bond,, which is repaid from a combination of the net revenues of the garage operations and.

K

K

It does not have and will not have a property tax, backup.

K

So we will not be utilizing that so it's 100 what we call a 100% revenue bond.

K

So a combination of those revenues so we'll first take from the net revenues of the garage to pay the debt and.

K

Anything remaining will come from tif revenues.

K

It's not anticipated that the garages will produce at the current rates enough revenue to pay the full bond payment.

K

So this is in our the sense in our step. Memo.. Is this a general statement of what revenue bonds are it's nice.

J

Okay,, thank you.

A

I'm sorry.. I have to take the privilege of the chair again and jump in here, because this just leaves morton two more questions., so.

A

You said it's 100 percent revenue, bond?.

A

So no property taxes, but isn't art tip funds, property taxes.. I.

A

Mean aren't they taxes on the increased value of property in a district?.

K

As you remember, there are two times of.

K

Tax increment financing districts that you can set up, one is a housing or a general housing or a business. We only have business so we only collect the increment above the base.

K

Gross growth on those businesses included in our tif tiff's.

K

No residential monies are collected.

K

The basis is set anything below the base. All those.

K

Individual units of government continue to collect those funds.

K

Only if there's growth in the av within the tif on those businesses is collected by.

K

The rtc into the tif so technically their property taxes, but they are not a pledge of general property taxes because they are deemed revenue to the rdc.

K

It does not use the general obligation bond that we have available to us if you'll remember.

K

In the last four or five years, we've issued a tif bond.

K

That was in 2015, then we issued to general obligation bonds, those are property, tax, paid bonds and those were two bonds that were rolling off and we basically renewed those to keep the rate and we had.

K

About 20 million dollars worth of projects that got funded between parks, general fund and city general fund.

K

We then proposed a the bicentennial bond, which was out of the parks.

K

General obligation of forwarding and that's a property tax base. so that a great is added to.

K

The general property tax rates in the city to repay that debt.

K

Then you approved the trades district bond and that's a tif bond tif revenue bond,, but there's no backup of the city's.

K

General obligation allotment to pay that. So, if you do some, some communities do that.. We typically don't. It enhances the credit, because.

K

Your bonds, that are a property tax rate, are seen as the highest collectible type of bond that you can issue because.

K

Under the states constitution., they have to provide the funds through the property taxes to pay that debt.

K

So everything that comes in the first thing that comes in from property taxes is your pond funds, because.

K

Those are sold on the basis that there will be sufficient revenues to pay those so.

K

You typically will have a strict revenue bond.

K

So, like all your typical utility bonds that get so those are revenue- bonds, pure of revenue, bonds,.

K

The tif blocks that we've sold.

K

Last four or five years, those are all revenue bonds and then we've sent several general obligations.

K

We've not had a combination of a revenue bond with a property tax, backup.

A

The tif funds so that that's.

A

Property tax on the added value in the tif district.

A

So it comes about through growth.. Yes,.

A

So doesn't this gross also require more public services and.

A

Isn't that additional money supposed to pay for the public services that that growth?.

A

Entails actually, no, it cannot be. There was a recent court case that said. Tif revenues cannot pay for services.

K

They cannot pay for maintenance there specifically for development and redevelopment capital projects. Only so.

K

Growth in the city is a combination of residential, commercial and.

K

Businesses that growth gets captured in the increase in the levy and those general services then are.

K

Provided through the general fund, in addition, we get local road street and highway funds from the state from gasoline taxes and other things that help support those services,. So.

K

To say that an increase in.

K

A v from a business is the only sole increase of needed services would be incorrect, because the.

K

City has grown population wise as well each year and that puts a demand on those services.

K

Obviously, if you build a new building, you've got to have fire service on that building.. But if we build 100 new homes.

K

Then we have to have fire and the lease and trash and those kinds of things and those are different revenue streams.

K

So those services are going to provided through the rtc and tif and and.

K

Statutorily cannot be so weight in services.. Do you include roads?.

K

You can construct a road, you cannot repair or maintained through tif funds.

A

And one final question along these lines: you had responded to. I.

A

Believe it was councilmember rough about the revenue bonds and that it's not in tests anticipated that.

A

This bond would be repaid through revenues from parking.

A

Do you have an estimate of how much of it would be paid from revenues?.

K

We represented that the last time I don't recall off.. I think it was 25 percent.

A

I believe that's about right, 25 percent from garage revenues and that's subject to increases in.

K

And why we say anticipate it? Is we don't know what action the council may take on.

K

The rates to use the garages you may choose to increase those.

K

To include a maintenance portion and a replacement portion, currently those rates do not have that.

A

All right, thank you.

A

Councilmember boland.

E

Okay,, so just if I have this straight.

E

The garage cannot be repaired with bond money., that's correct., so.

K

Whether you tif bond money, you could it. You could.

K

Technically, you could issue a general obligation, bond repair.

K

But our financial advisors and legal people and myself would not say we would tell you not to do that.

E

There was not be worth it., it wouldn't be worth. yeah,, that's fine. okay,, so we're in this mess, partly because.

E

The city collectively since nineteen eighty five is all but for gone.

E

Maintenance on the forestry garage desmond says in their report. They recommend that a hundred dollars per space per year be set aside for maintenance.

E

Has the administration contemplated how to set aside that money for a new garage and, if so,, how would you would you go about doing it?? I.

K

Believe that we've discussed this with you that we, you know.

K

We've been open to discussing changes to the raids to set that money aside, and that would be a part of the annual.

K

Appropriation where we could create a fund, you can actually create two funds, one for maintenance, though technically do I do that?.

K

You would facilitate for it in the.

K

Operating budget and then have a capital replacement fund, if you wanted to have funds available in the future to replace a garage.

K

Then you would have a capital replacement as a part of your fee and you would transfer that money every year and at the end,.

K

Of 50 years she would have the funds to reconstruct the garage. Well.

E

But I mean we're talking about the necessary ongoing maintenance to make sure the garage last 50 years.

E

This garage was supposed to last 50 years.. It lasted less than 35, because.

E

Maintenance wasn't done on it, so what I mean, the reason I'm asking is because I keep hearing how the repair of the garage is going to require ongoing.

E

Attention that will cost money, which is effectively maintenance.

E

But I'm not hearing that the expense of the new garage was also going to require maintenance. If we expect it to last 50 years.

E

So I mean, it sounds like the ministration basel fir'd to adam, but yes,. I believe both he and I have both said. Yes, there.

K

Maintenance,, it's obviously like any new structure. You build a new home.

K

You have a warranty for how many ever period, and then you have a little bit of a set-aside and then, as the.

K

Structure ages, that amount goes up so.

K

That's what you would see is on a new facility.

K

You would see smaller amounts in the early years and that would continue to grow as it aged.

K

E

All I'm saying is: I expect that if we're going to build a new garage that there's going to be that's.

E

527 spaces that we're going to see fifty-two thousand seven hundred.

E

E

Seven, if it doesn't get spent right away. I mean we won't need maintenance when it's new right? and by the time we do need the rate of money.

K

Yeah, and that would be the ideas that you would have, that money available to just amortize, that.

K

What do you need to have the repairs? okay, put it forward?

K

So the reason I asked all this is: have we included the overall cost of maintenance.

E

Overtime into the true cost of the new garage, in other words,.

E

Fifty-Two thousand seven hundred dollars times 50 years is appreciable a lot of money.

E

It's in the millions that's going to be the part of the total cost of ownership of the garage and.

E

I haven't heard a breakdown of the cost per space of a new garage with that money.

E

Compared to the cost of repairing it, it seems to me that it winds up becoming something of a well and technically you. You would.

K

Do that on both scenarios?, you will do that if you repair the garage and take it forward. As the deputy mayor said, that only buys you five years.

K

So we would include five years of expenses at a higher level than.

K

What if the first five years of a new garage would be the the repair maintenance cost for a new garage?.

K

Actual costs would be minimal compared to five years of a repair garage, and that will be either scenario. The amount of money.

K

Necessary to do that we'll get bill. The annual budgets., I think, you've seen an increase in the parking.

K

Facilities fund budget, to account for the fact that we are trying to build those a.

K

Cost into that budget so that we have available, we can do those repairs.

K

4.9 million dollars over the next ten years, again. I'm glad to hear that you're thinking that way., the one thing that's missing is that.

E

Cost is a part of the estimate, in other words it you can't talk about the cost of maintaining the repair.

E

If you don't also talk about the cost of maintaining the new garage,, that's that's the only distinction österreichring.. Thank you.

H

Just add one additional ii agree with what you just said.

H

However, in the bond fund, we can't put maintenance funds. We can't hold any of the excess bond fund aside and say we're going to.

H

Hold on to this for 20 years and use it for maintenance.

H

Jeff underwood mentioned we would have to budget for that out of parking facilities fine, and we will look. We will definitely design a parking.

H

Budget, a maintenance budget for the new structure once it's designed.

H

Until we have that design, we really don't know what kind of maintenance costs are will be. We can make an estimate and give you that we could probably do.

H

That by next week,, but it's just going to be that until we design structure.

H

Thank you. totally reasonable request, totally reasonable, not unreasonable, very reasonable, and it's something we should budget for.

H

When we come to you each year for a budget proposals., I appreciate that.. Thank you.

A

Other questions, councilmember rallo.

G

So we realize the cost savings if we issued about now half a million dollars. This slide describes.

G

Rather than waiting, but there must be also increasing construction cause with waiting, is that correct?.

G

And that if we waited for five years to demolish and rebuild,, do you have an estimate, anticipated?.

G

Savings if we act now resident later,, I.

K

Don't recall the actual men I can find that for you,, but it's estimated that the cost of construction index will be at 5% and greater.

K

Going forward we're seeing that right, now,, okay,.

K

So this these would be would be cost that we would not be able to save and actually would go away.

K

We would pay so like the bond insurance cost.

K

If we decided in two years to come back revisit it, if we don't do that.

K

This time around would be another hundred. Eighty thousand dollar plus plus increase in the costs.

G

Well, construction costs of five percent per year, preferably, would be in millions.. Yes, after five. yeah.

K

I was it was: it was several million dollars, over. okay,, five, ten and fifteen years. yes. thanks.

A

Any other councilmember questions, I had one other one, okay,. Let me let me do one and then we'll go back to councilmember rallo.

A

Could somebody speak to how long?.

A

The garage would be closed if we repair it versus how long it would be closed if we rebuild it.

H

We had estimated we would be if it were repair the the plan that we were working on from your direction from the last.

H

Council discussion we had, we would be back open and august if we.

H

Go to a rebuild option: we've checked with our project. Manager. we've obviously lost sometime between december now,. We feel like we can make about half that.

H

Time back up again, and we could have a structure, a new structure open before the end of 2020.

H

So 20 months, 19 months versus six months., thank you with.

H

With all the features that we all want to see in a new structure versus none of those.

H

Can we do on the existing structure in a repair option?.

A

Councilmember rallo.

G

Yeah, my question was about the the use by the.

G

Convention center.

G

So the role of the convention center is that this would this forestry garage would service the.

G

Anticipated hotel at third in college., I.

G

Was also wondering about the graduate hotel, which is now built that.

G

Has I think on? Is it correct??

G

It only has 40 some parking spaces,, which is competing with on street parking., is that is that correct?.

B

I'm just trying to landing staff is here., so we're all looking around for a planner or terry to help us with that. One.

G

Well,, you know get that, for if this is the committee meeting, so we could wait until next week.

G

But my point is: is that trying to assess the demand.

G

And those are obvious points of demand right,. So thanks.

H

The convention center project anticipated a need of about 1500 parking spaces and those were at a full. We didn't, we don't have a design for that.

H

So we don't know exactly how many square feet will be added at this stage.

H

Assuming it was going to build out, like the master plan that was conducted several years ago, suggested.

H

It was 1500 estimated parking spaces.

H

Some of the surface parking in the convention center area today would be lost as a result of the structures that might be built on.

H

Top of that so any additional parking spaces. We could gain across the street of 4th street with a rebuild.

H

Would provide some relief for the anticipated need.

H

At the convention center and displaced parking that will happen as a result of structures going over the top of surface lots, and I think we've talked to.

H

To the council about the city will eventually, if we.

H

Choose to keep the garage at the hospital have access to that.. That's not that far from the convention center.

H

It might be an option with a shuttle or some other way of also, utilizing that structure in the big picture of things.

H

So the best answer to tell you is the hotel, your'e.

H

That had been in discussions for the convention center site had envisioned using the 4th street structure to attach to that hotel property and.

H

Certainly had anticipated needing spaces for that hotel. Much like what we have the hilton garden inn and the 7th and morton garage.

H

A

Any other counsel questions.

A

Okay, at the risk of beating a dead horse, poor horse,, sorry bad bad analogy. I.

A

Do want to just ask once again of mr. underwood something about tiff. sorry.

A

So I just want to make sure I understand if a business is not in a tif district.

A

Whatever investment they put into their property and the increase in their property tax.

A

Then goes into our general fund.. Is that correct?.

A

It would increase the assessed value of that area and it would go into.

K

The calculation of the tax rate, the the levy that we get, is the general fund and then we also get a parks, general fund.

K

Those are the two funds that get property taxes beyond bonds,, so.

K

The state sets the maximum. The constitution's is the most we get 5% increase in cheering our levy.

K

That's set by the 5 year, rolling average and non-farm income across the state.

K

We all get the same growth quotient. What I'm trying to get at is okay, if I have a business.

K

It doesn't go into the tif, it goes into the assessed value for that area and will and.

K

Theoretically, will decrease the property tax rate for that township.

K

Because the av has grown in that township, nice, of which the city is part of that rate,.

A

Right okay,, so the difference is, if I invest a million dollars in the business,, that's not in the tif that will increase the assessed value.

K

A

That will lead to perhaps lower rates.

A

For other property tax payers for all property tax records- and that's yes,.

A

So if I have a business in the tif?.

A

That extra million dollars that I invested, the taxes on that.

A

Do not go to the benefit of all the taxpayers, they go to.

A

Whatever the redevelopment commission does and the council decide.

A

Should be invested in is that correct? that's correct.

A

Thank you., that's all. I need.

A

All right seeing no other councilmember questions., we will go to the audience. If anybody would like to speak to this issue tonight,.

A

Please feel free to step to the microphone.. There is a sign-in sheet actually. mr. brennan ison.. Could you leave that on the desk?.

A

Yeah,, so people can sign it right before they even get to the podium.. Please do sign in and then state your.

A

A

We will should we should we, let's how many people want to speak to this issue?.

A

Let's do four minutes, because else we will be here all night.. So let's do a format up limit.

A

Please go ahead.

N

All right, thank you, tula chicago, downtown bloomington and thank you council for revisiting the 4th street parking garage decision.

N

It's a big one for downtown and on behalf of downtown, bloomington inc,.

N

We support rebuilding the parking garage to make it bigger and better to address demands of a vibrant, downtown.

N

The number of attendees at special events and attractions.

N

Continues to grow number of employees and residents in the downtown is more than doubled, since the original garage was built.

N

We want to strengthen downtown into the future, and a new garage with additional capacity can help do that.

N

We're excited about downtown restrooms.

N

Charging stations better street presence.

N

Aiding an expanded convention center to bring visitors closer to the downtown and, of course, additional parking spaces.

N

To help our existing businesses in their day-to-day.

N

Activities, thank you for your consideration.. This is a crucial decision for encouraging small businesses and attractions to be in the downtown area.

N

O

Hi rachel robertson, with the four wins lakeside in a marina.. I.

O

Won't take four minutes and we, of course, are the only lake. Our only hotel on lake monroe and.

O

So it is vital to our guests, especially during the summer months, when they're paying peak rates and supporting local taxes a 5% to 7%.

O

The 1% food and tax. they need to come in town to there. they're, not just here for lake monroe.

O

Although it's the fun part., they want to come to bloomington.. They want to enjoy the shows.. They want to see iu.

O

They need more safe parking when I come in town for meetings.

O

I don't have hardly anywhere to park anymore, and it makes it really difficult for me to do business in downtown bloomington.

O

I have more more people coming to four winds to meet me because I can't meet them in bloomington.

O

So I just really ask that we have a rebuild.

O

Four winds stands behind. Building that thing all over again.

O

We don't want concrete falling on our cars anymore., so it would be nice to rebuild.. Yes,.

O

I did have a piece of country following my car one time, I'm sorry. yeah.

A

Thank you very much. Next.

P

Hi,, my name is daniel bingham,, I'm gonna try to compress this I've been told. I would have ten minutes to give this and I'm gonna try to compress it to four.

P

I went through our 2016 greenhouse gas inventories and I generated emissions targets for us from those.

P

We need to hit these targets by 2030, 2040 and 2050.. Could you go to the.

P

We've got to cut emissions by forty five percent in ten years.

P

We got to get to zero in 30 years. Go to the next one.

P

Can you go to these? Are the our current emissions drawn straight from that emissions inventory?.

P

These are in metric tons of co2 equivalent go to the next. This is what we need to do over the next 30 years.

P

We need to cut them in half and then in half again and then to zero.

P

Yeah,, that's like I cut off at the bottom. It's a row of zeros. This is transportation.

P

Again, every 10 years. we've got to cut it in half until we get to zero or we face catastrophic.

P

Consequences, the ipcc, the international body on climate change., they used the word catastrophic and.

P

For just like an inkling of what those are, the midwest is under water right now, people are drowning, people are dead, farms are destroyed.

P

We have to hit these targets., we have no choice.

P

Can you go to the next? I calculated this is wasting natural gas next. One.

P

Sorry, I'm blowing through this.. I thought I had a lot more time.

P

That's what it would cost to hit the energy grid target 1.2 billion with solar for 2030.. That's just the 2030 target.

P

That's not getting zero! That's replacing putting enough solar on the grid that we offset bloomington's electricity. grid, paul,, that's incredibly expensive!.

P

We can look at wind and hydro,. The prices are likely to be similar.

P

That's one: we have no choice around like we can try to cut energy use, but at the end of the day, the energy grid.

P

It's gonna be on that order.

P

This is transportation. If we try to keep driving at the rates we are now, you can roughly estimate that there are on the order of 40,000.

P

Two cars in bloomington by 2030, 45 or non electric cars on the other 45.

P

40,000 cars and bloomington by 2030, 45 percent of them would have to be electric cars. The cheapest electric cars at smart fortwo to replace.

P

45% of the cars in bloomington with smart fortwo s is like 500 million dollars.

P

We can't afford that that's 48 million a year.. We can't keep driving at these rates.

P

We've got to make those cuts and we can't do it if we keep driving.

P

Can you go to the next if we keep driving electric cars scroll down a little bit.

P

We have to add additional solar capacity. That chart is from the.

P

Department of energy's website, right now in indiana, if you're driving an electric car and charging it from the grid, the emissions are higher.

P

Than if you were driving a hybrid, it's that bad.. So if we're gonna make these cuts by continuing to drive electric cars.

P

We have to install enough additional solar capacity that we can fully charge all those electric cars.

P

To do that for forty five percent of the cars in bloomington we'd have to stall install an additional sixty four million dollars of solar capacity.

P

Again,, this is absurdly expensive.

P

Can you go to the next if we do this through bike infrastructure on the other hand?.

P

A mile of bike lane protected by parked cars is between eight thousand and sixteen thousand dollars.

P

For protecting it with jersey, barriers per mile., it's like 80.

P

164 planters, which look beautiful. it's between 80,000 and 400,000.

P

That's like outlining roughly the major thoroughfares and bloomington it's only about 35 miles of roadway. If we were to build out four.

P

Barrier protected bike lanes on all of that roadway. we're looking at. Like five million you go to the next.

P

For transport, eight for for building out transit, currently our transit budgets, ten million less than we're going to spend on this garage.

P

Incidentally, like half of all talking about spending on this garage, the lincoln transit runs nine routes.

P

And a previous discussion that came up that it's about a hundred thousand to add a new bus to an existing route.

P

It's reasonable to estimate that adding a whole new route is like one to two million.

P

We're talking about a totally different order of magnitude here, it's like a tenth to a hundredth the cost.

P

To hit those emissions targets by building out bike and transit infrastructure than it is to continue to try to keep driving. At the same.

P

Rates, we are, we are talking about this garage, paying itself back through parking.

P

A

And I want to apologize to mr. bingham., I think there may have been a misunderstanding about timing and such.

A

Hopefully, we can have another opportunity to more calmly go through your data.. Thank you.

D

Say, thank you to miss rhodes for flipping those slides.. That's our council. Attorney. she's, amazing.

A

Okay, next up. hi., I'm jim rosenberger, a.

Q

Couple comments., I still think greenwashing a garage is insulting.

Q

Let's be real., this is not a green piece of infrastructure.

Q

I think the most own green part about it, brown. What.

Q

Is a parking garages downtown drive, suburban sprawl?.

Q

When we we've lived with that in the midwest particularly,, I mean, I'm familiar with louisville.

Q

They have acres of downtown structured parking.. The place is dead at night., the the county is sprawled.

Q

The same things, true of almost any midwestern city,.

Q

There's an effort to build up the downtown with the idea that somehow that's going to be green.. It's not.

Q

Downtown parking structures drive sprawl.

Q

It families are faced with a choice.. Do I do I?.

Q

Come into town pay, higher taxes end up with a smaller house.

Q

Try to walk to work to save, or do I hop in my car, buy a cheaper house?.

Q

Bigger yard and pay fewer taxes, the economics for that are: how do you go against that?.

Q

I think it's ridiculous to talk about doing traffic demand management after we build an.

Q

Oversupply of parking spaces- it's just economics, 101 you have so many widgets and the more you make the cheaper per unit.. They are.

Q

And we're not we're gonna be in a place where we try and again trying to attract people.

Q

To use parking garages or we're going to have empty spaces., I.

Q

Spent a short time in london just the past couple week, week. I saw one parking garage in the entire city.

Q

I probably walk 50 miles.. I was on a trace train going through an area where they build high-rises. I saw a park.

Q

Parking structure in that area, london, is extremely wealthy. The streets are covered with people and cars.

Q

But there are no, I didn't see any structured parking., it's a fabulous place to visit.. It's very wealthy.

Q

It's doing quite well without parking structures.. Thank you.

A

Thank you next up and please be sure to sign in everybody.

R

Hello, I'm mark stas berg. I said city on the bloomington.

R

Bicycle pedestrian. Safety. Commission.- I also work in the field of transportation demand management.. I.

R

Want to bring back something that, in the desmond study that the city of richmond commissioned?.

R

One of their findings was that I'll, just read it before investing in additional structured parking in the downtown.

R

Consideration should be given to implementing efforts to reduce parking demand.

R

For employees and residents- and I understand this because I study.

R

The field the science and data is that transportation demand management is more, in fact, is more.

R

Effective when the supply is limited and in efforts to do that are damaged and.

R

Compromise when the sub, when there is an oversupply of parking and already we are.

R

We have committed to the trades district garage,, which is being built, unanticipated demand that a demand that will be there.

R

Right now, especially with the 4th street garage clothes., we really have an opportunity.

R

To work on transportation, demand management.

R

Because it's now's the time to be creative about finding parking spots. And I.

R

Advise you to follow the advice of your consultants on that point,.

R

Part of my job also involves risk and estimating large complex projects. The repair option.

R

Minimizes risk,, it's shorter term.. There's a lot of things.

R

We don't know that are unknowns about the 50-year projection about a transportation needs.

R

There are a lot of things that are causing parking to trend down.

R

Fewer americans getting driver's license driver miles are flat and increased complaint concern about the very real problem.

R

Possibility of climate catastrophe, shared mobility is on the rise, autonomous.

R

Abilities on the rise, all these make it really hard to project our parking demand.

R

For the next 50 years, five years from now, we'll have a much better opportunity.

R

Projects going over budget, you know your small repair project could go ten percent over budget. Your 18 million dollar project could go over budget, so.

R

By looking at a smaller scope, you have a reduced risk fiscally,. So it's a sound opportunity.

R

Even if there's a second closure one for now for repair and another one to rebuild again.

R

That's another opportunity to practice transportation demand management.

R

It doesn't have to be seen as a negative and again you minimize your risk by forecasting.

R

Recent research from a city of palo alto found that it was cheaper to pay for transportation demand management solutions than it was to pay for structured parking.

R

The only way it was more expensive, as if you had a people like ten thousand dollars a year to live closer to work.

R

But for the most part, it's cheaper to deal with parking from the supply side.

R

So it's a physically found to look at a reduced supply.

A

Thank you next up, I.

S

Jim murphy, president of cfc properties., I want to thank you first and foremost for.

S

Bringing us back to the table for discussion to discuss the fate of the downtown,, of course, to be parking guards.

S

But also the fate of downtown, maybe the business downtown.

S

Your decision tonight is going to impact the near and distant future of downtown wilmington,, but particularly business owners.

S

Many mom-and-pop stores many invest life savings in these stores. they're entrepreneurs.

S

At the present downtown is active, vibrant, very alive., we're envied by other communities throughout the state of indiana and beyond.

S

We have loud not-for-profits, entertainment venues downtown, but.

S

It's not always has not always been this way and that's why I have a few pictures.

S

I want to show you too many many years ago.. This is the cochran house at eighth and raja street.

S

That's what it looked like turned to the next issue would so this and this the deep hole at 7th and wharton street., so we're getting closer to downtown.

S

These buildings were vacant had been vacant for a long, long time.. This is one if you yes or not.. This is fountain square.

S

And literally, that building is about ready to fall into the street and.

S

Coincidentally, in the four-state parking garage is connected to fountain square that helps provide services for fountain square in the downtown and.

S

The final photograph I have for you is the grand plaza and this building set vacant for eight years until.

S

Bill cook and mayor, frank mikowski was able to get together and have a conversation.

S

Bill cook said I will buy and restore that property if.

S

The city builds city built a parking garage and they did, and they did on handshake, can't do that today. Can't we?.

S

But they did do that,, but the purpose for me, showing these is to remind us of how fragile downtown bloomington is.

S

Not that I am suggesting that it would go back to these conditions.

S

But parking is so valuable and if we are do not provide parking.

S

Necessary it is going to have an impact on businesses.. It's going to have an impact on.

S

The community it's going to have an impact on the tourism downtown.. I think mentioned that earlier and the bottom line is.

S

Predecessors before you had many many tough difficult decisions to make.

S

Like you, they listen to the facts of the experts.. They listen to the testimonials of the public and.

S

They made their decision like you're, going to make your decision based on the information that you have before you.

S

The reality is that we know is that there will be a whole new ground at some point in time in the future.

S

So if we just repair it are, we simply kicking the can down the road and it's been a lot of money in the process.

S

And creating uncertainty for the downtown users, whether they be entertainment, doors,, whether they be restaurant, goers or shoppers,, and I truly believe that we need to.

S

Take a very serious look at this and invest in.

S

Taking down the existing parking structure for street and building a new one, and thank you for your consideration.

A

E

Down three minutes of beep and then and then 3:45 beep yeah,, you got a neck, you get one more minute,. So.

S

We did not know the rules, my apology,, but it's the nature of this time,, so please take one more minute. okay.. Thank you.

S

So again, again, like the gentleman before I was trying to rush through this rather quickly.

S

But it's inevitable at some point in time that I think this god is going to have to be replaced.

S

So why would we want to spend the amount of money that I'm hearing tonight with uncertainty?.

S

Knowing that, at some point in time, the future generation of future future councils are going to have to make that decision to replace that parking guards and, at the same time,.

S

If you do make the decisions to tear down a building new, as was mentioned earlier by.

S

Deputy mayor of in eisen could be convinced, an expansion and the hotel for the convention center is going to need additional parking, and that is a very.

S

Important and valuable part how they convince center expansion, and I think that should be.

E

Considered as well. thank you.

E

Again so it beeps at one minute and in 15 seconds when it starts beeping continuously,, then you're done four minutes. Miss martin.

T

Good evening I'm jane martin and I appreciate the chance to speak for the 4th street garage in.

T

Whatever version you and your wisdom decide whether it's repair or.

T

Repair sounds to me based on the numbers.. I heard tonight rather short-sighted.

T

Given we have to do it again, an increasing cost, but I'm speaking.

T

Tonight for the 4th street garage on behalf of start-up businesses and the tech.

T

I applaud your efforts to green our economy.

T

We can't do it overnight if we had the.

T

Public infrastructure of london,, we would all take public transport to work into the opera.

T

It's going to take a while to do that and.

T

We need the parking garage most of our startup companies drive.

T

Carpool bike to work or walk to work., some of them can't afford to live downtown.

T

So they have no choice. So there's a lot of problems in.

T

Trying to eliminate cars overnight.

T

We have a problem in bloomington. Our wages have stagnated.

T

Since the last recession in the last 10 years.

T

Since 2008, our average wages have not recovered to the.

T

T

Second problem is we're losing population growth in the.

T

Critical 18 to 34 age group.- these are two benchmarks for the health of a local economy.

T

I'm worried about bloomington., I'm worried. we're gonna, get left behind.

T

In the new economy, if we don't plan for.

T

Businesses with 2 to 5 employees.

T

Who is bloomington working for today?? I think it's working for.

T

Folks who work at iu, I think it's working for retirees who are happy to enjoy our arts, culture and.

T

To live in a service economy that pays.

T

Minimum wage with no benefits., it's working for our government employees., who.

T

Isn't it working for its we're not working for minimum wagers.? It's not working for you.

T

Professionals, it's not working for graduates.

T

They're going to other states texas, colorado to boost their economy because they're unable to stay here.

T

It's also not working for our mid-level employees who need retraining.

T

Because they're, an old economy, job.

T

We need infrastructure to support bloomington's new economy. We can't afford to lose.

T

500 parking spots in downtown bloomington.

T

I'm going to give you three examples of companies that need that parking.

T

Secretly, canadian is a company stealth company. they bring a hundred and fifty folks.

T

From all over the world to bloomington for a music conference.

T

This is google music apple. music.. They represent yoko ono.

T

They need parking the b corp a 23 year old iu graduate working on food security to save the beef.

T

Chose to locate her business here this summer shall bring the forbes egg tech summit to bloomington.

T

They need parking is my time.

T

Hand up and marketing 75 employees.

E

How many times up?.

T

These are clean, high, paying jobs, and I encourage you to support our.

T

High-Tech economy with parking enforcement.. Thank you.

U

First, I want to thank the council for opening this, their name sir., pardon name.

U

My name is lloyd. Stoller. thank you. and I bought a property at 115 south walnut called the baker building.

U

In august and I anticipated there would be parking, I have a business there and I'm able to.

U

I have a tenant for another there's two floors.

U

I'm on one floor and the tenants on the other floor. I have about six employees and I believe my tenant has a similar number.

U

Not everybody is able to walk to work, not everybody is able to ride a scooter to work.

U

In fact,, I'd be okay if nobody broke scooter to work,, but that's a whole different issue.

U

My point is I: I would really like to see something done at 4th street, either repair it or replace.

U

It but let's just don't, leave it closed.. Thank you for your time.

V

Thank you for your time and thoughtfulness this evening,, my name is lynn coyne,. I'm president of bloomington economic development.

V

Corporation, we support construction of a new garage, an.

V

Adequate supply of parking is essential to maintaining an economically successful and vibrant downtown.

V

It makes long-term economic sense and.

V

Supports the city's own vision and plan for downtown bloomington, a vision and plan that has been executed for quite some time.

V

As pointed out in the city's vision statement adopted by the city council and.

V

Incorporated into the city's comprehensive plan, a core principle.

V

Is to nurture our vibrant and historic downtown as the flourishing center of the community.

V

The city's comprehensive plan describes the downtown, as quote.

V

Compact urban high intensity mixed-use center that serves.

V

Regional community wide and neighborhood markets, unclothed.

V

It also states that the downtown quote serves as the social and economic part of bloomington by providing.

V

Land-Use choices that accommodate residents.

V

Businesses, shoppers and visitors, to achieve this vision and these planning goals parking is essential.

V

The plan anticipate sparking when it states in building choices, quote.

V

Preferring multi-story parking garages to surface parking lots unquote.

V

To give an indication of how successful this strategy has been to this point,.

V

We extracted property tax information from the elevate gis website for properties immediately around the corners.

V

Since the general assessment in 2002, the total assessed value of those 29 properties.

V

Increased from just over 9 million dollars to over 26 million dollars.

V

The 2018 tax bill for those properties is over half a million dollars.

V

This represents a massive investment in our downtown and income to the city.

V

Following the vision and plan that the council put forth and.

V

This is just for the properties, the square.. This doesn't include all of the apartments and properties off the square.

V

The city had a goal to create a live work and play urban environment.

V

We have created the live part by building multi-family housing, mostly apartments for students.

V

We have created the work part by being the center of our.

V

Entrepreneurial innovation and technology sector and we've created the play part with the many restaurants, theatres events.

V

Festivals and similar activities and sights such as the waldron arts centre buzz kirk, chumley and wonderlab.. What we haven't done yet is combine them.

V

Living is reserved mostly for students and is not affordable to others, as miss martin pointed out earlier.

V

Workers need to commute into downtown and residence, visitors and tourists need to drive into downtown to play.

V

This is ball, as anticipated by the city council's own vision and plan.

V

This is why it is so important to maintain what we have all worked so hard to create. As to the issue of driving cars.

V

If they don't commute, downtown, they're going to be working somewhere else in driving much further difference distances.

V

Going forward, we should not arbitrarily reduce parking.

V

But focus on providing meaningful access to the downtown through mass transit, an.

V

Urban environment needs mass transit to realize its potential.

V

The city's vision statement adds.

V

Quote: provide a safe, efficient, accessible and connected system of transportation. That.

V

Emphasizes public transit, walking and biking to enhance options to reduce overall dependence on the automobile.

V

We have talked at length about walking and biking. We need to now talk about public transit, including park, and ride.

V

Combining parking garages is that it's time. okay.. Thank you for your time.. Thank you.

A

Thank you next up be sure to sign in please everybody.

W

Good evening council members., my name is jeff mckim and I currently serve on the monroe county council and I also work downtown.

W

I'm a remote worker and otherwise would be working from home.

W

But I choose to work, downtown and pay out of my own pocket to do so because of the exciting and vibrant culture and community.

W

That we have here, I often may eat three meals a day downtown and do most of my shopping as well. And I'm here to speak in favor of.

W

Rebuilding the 4th street garage., I appreciate the difficulty of your decision and applaud your diligence and considering all facets of the issues.

W

Particularly applaud your willingness to put climate change at the forefront of this debate as global climate change is undeniably an existential threat.

W

To our society, and potentially our species. so coming both from these hyper personal and global context,.

W

I just want to make three brief comments.

W

Compact urban form is our ally, as we collectively try to address climate change.

W

It's been well established in the literature, the more compact urban spaces are greener spaces. The density enables transit for both non-discretionary and discretionary riders.

W

The compact form mitigates stormwater flooding, but to be effective. That.

W

Effective or that compact urban form also requires a vibrant and resilient local downtown economy.

W

With a mix of employers and not just entertainment, related businesses, catering to to students and visitors and the vibrant and resilient economy,.

W

Requires the people, employees, employers and visitors, be able to park a parking structure is the most economically and ecologically.

W

Efficient way to allow them to park, and once they park in that garage,, they are, to paraphrase councilmember ster bomb.

W

Converted into pedestrians, there is no evidence that within the deadness so number two, there is no evidence that, within the time horizon contemplated for this garage, that people will no longer be driving cars.

W

Cars will undoubtedly be differently fueled and could be vastly more efficient if the price of fuel accounted for the carbon emissions as well.

W

But that's an issue of national and global scale., simply making it more difficult to park downtown.

W

Bloomington will not reduce overall greenhouse emissions.

W

It might just encourage businesses, visitors and employees to take their businesses and their emissions elsewhere and third.

W

It's absolutely appropriate to work towards decreasing the level of subsidy from the tif district.

W

There's no god-given right to free parking and increasing the users share of the burden for this facility is a worthy goal.

W

Unfortunately,, it can be pursued separately from the decision to rebuild the garage. The fact that the current pro forma such a high degree of.

W

Subsidy from the tif district does not mean that it's the way that things always.

W

You have the opportunity to move forward on the garage now and then adjust the user fees to meet your policy goals.

W

You've been left with a facility that is functionally obsolete and, unfortunately, has been allowed to become structurally deficient.

W

Continuing to patch the structure is just throwing good money after bad.

W

You have an opportunity here: to?

W

reaffirm your commitment to compact urban form, which requires a vibrant, downtown business community.

W

I urge you to demonstrate that commitment by supporting the reconstruction of the 4th street garage and thank you very much.

A

Thank you next up.

X

X

Have two reasonings that I would like to say, one of which.

X

Coincides with another issue that will be coming in front of the council soon.

X

As we move forward in deciding whether to rebuild or repair the 4th street garage, I would encourage the council to consider.

X

The fact that you're being asked to give money on a design that you don't even know anything about.

X

Would you go out and buy a computer without understanding the specs behind it?.

X

So in in curt in.

X

Understanding and figuring out., what is the best decision for the city?.

X

We should be financially responsible.

X

We shouldn't be asked to blindly give money to a project that hasn't even been designed yet.

X

Second, with the parking garage issue. yes., there are going to need more cars on the road.

X

So I would strongly encourage the council to consider.

X

And the effect of increased parking and road traffic as.

X

They look at the electric scooter rental issue that will be coming in front of the council.. Later.

X

Because the electrics electric scooters make sidewalks inaccessible for people like me,.

X

We are eventually on the road and because we are also on the road.

X

We are now more risk by getting hit by these cars that will be going to these parking structures.

X

So, as you decide whether to repair rebuild or move forward from the 4th street garage.

X

Please consider these issues as you make your decision.

A

Thank you next up.

Y

Hi,, my name is ingrid father and.

Y

We actually do have solar panels and we both drive hybrid cars and we really do think about the environment. I.

Y

Think that our dilemma is, we do live on the east side and coming downtown.

Y

Isn't I was that easy without finding parking and we find that we are constantly.

Y

Struggling to find a parking spot to park, and now with the 4th street garage down.

Y

There's even less parking, I think, being at the meeting tonight.

Y

I assumed that we were going to repair it and then I guess there were some issues and now they're thinking about rebuilding it. I.

Y

Think personally,, I think that maybe if we spend 1.4 million dollars to kind of repair this, it might not be.

Y

Good in the long run, until we can't really compare ourselves to europe., we don't have the same public transportation.. I grew up there.. I know.

Y

Excellent public transportation., I walked a lot. Bloomington is not that type of town. so for me,. I personally do.

Y

Wish that we could, you know, spend the money and invest in a new garage.

Y

Even if you get an electric car,, you do have to park that damn thing.

Y

So you, you will need parking and I think, with bloomington and as much as all these high-rises are getting built.

Y

But there's no parking., I do find it a problem in our town., so.

Y

Anyways, I just wanted to make that point.. Thank you so much.

Z

District four: I have just a few.

Z

Points that I'd like to share with you one is that I believe that the downtown can still be successful without cars by getting people to use other modes.

Z

We're all assuming that we can only get to downtown by car,, but that's not true.

Z

If we were to invest in other modes,, we could get people there by those other modes.

Z

I also hear that you know we are expecting sort of the the government to help us to.

Z

Solve these our climate crisis, but it really needs to take us upon our own lifestyles to change, and so by that I mean we should start encouraging ourselves to.

Z

Bike and walk and take transit.

Z

I hear that we can't do this overnight, but I believe that it's forks in the roads like this that either keep us where we are right now or.

Z

Move us towards a more sustainable.

Z

Climate, I also want to say that I do not think that parking is economic development.

Z

I think that there is an old way of thinking where we thought that building convention, centers and building stadiums and building parking garages in our downtown would bring people downtown.

Z

And I think a person that spoke earlier before.

Z

Gave the example of louisville kentucky or it's oftentimes empty at night, because nobody lives down there.

Z

And so I say that again, parking is not economic development.

Z

We've been wrong in this thinking that automobile use means economic development.

Z

But the reality is that auto use increases with economic development only because wealth allows more driving.

Z

I'll say that again, wealth allows more driving, not that increased driving leads to wealth.

Z

I also want to echo another person's.

Z

Comments that said that lead building this garage to lead standards and parks mark a park. Smart garage is insulting.

Z

Slapping solar panels on a major trip generator and a place that generates a lot of fossil fuels is very insulting.. Thank you.

AA

Hello,, my name is matt flaherty,. I don't doubt that everyone here tonight is well intentioned, and I appreciate the public conversation.

AA

But that said, I think we need to be clear-eyed about climate change and about justice and equity in our community and what that means.

AA

All I've ever asked for in the context of these parking garages is that we stop heavily subsidizing parking.

AA

I think 25 percent was the figure mentioned by the comptroller earlier.

AA

If there's a need for a bigger parking garage,, let the private market provide it and let people pay the real cost.

AA

It's really that simple have we lost all faith in capitalism.

AA

That was a joke.

AA

The point is no one is stopping a developer from building a parking garage if it's profitable, not prohibiting parking.

AA

We're saying pay the real cost.

AA

Another woman mentioned the new economy. The new economy means a just and sustainable.

AA

Economy notice that most people advocating against begging a bit building a bigger garage and subsidizing parking are under the age of 40.

AA

We don't want subsidized parking., we want a livable climate.

AA

What will attract people here is quality of place, investment in transit investment in walking and biking infrastructure?.

AA

That's what creates a vibrant downtown, not sprawl subsidized by subsidized parking in the midst of a climate crisis.

AA

It makes absolutely no sense to continue to use tax dollars to provide below market rate parking for everyone.

AA

This is a blanket subsidy that perpetuates climate change, benefits wealthy folks, who don't need it and leaves everyone or leaves behind our poorest citizens.

AA

According to u.s. census data, many of the poorest people in our community do not drive at all because they cannot afford a car.. That's not my opinion.

AA

That's the facts: meanwhile,. Our transit system is tragically underfunded when we spend 18 million in taxpayer, dollars subsidizing a parking garage, and it's actually much more than.

AA

That, when you include debt service, that's money., we can't spend elsewhere, for instance with that money.

AA

We could bond for 25, fully electric buses or more and solar panels to cover bloomington transit storage facility.

AA

The buses would have zero emissions, which would help us meet our city and our mayor's.

AA

Commitment on climate change, an electric buses also have significantly lower maintenance costs.

AA

This would free up a lot of money for bloomington transit operations and maintenance.

AA

Meaning we could run more frequent and expanded service no longer. Would our poorest community members face the challenges of not being able to get to their job or the grocery store on a sunday.

AA

Or missing a work shift because they have to wait another hour when they miss their bus by two minutes.

AA

Transit will be clean and viable. and for those who still want to drive,, of course, they can.

AA

You could park in any number of metered spots that are always open several blocks from downtown and walk a few blocks.

AA

You could park on the west side of rodgers, where it's literally free.

AA

To parker's you'd park in one of our garages that aren't full on morton street or on a north walnut.

AA

And that's from the desmond study. never have those been full at any period of observation.

AA

See so again, members of the business community have repeatedly said that their will said that they are willing to pay that.

AA

Will unsubsidized cost of parking and if that's the case,, then the city doesn't need to build garage.

AA

But the private of our could do it or repair this garage charge an unsubsidized price for price for parking and wait to see if we really need 200 more spaces.

AA

That's the real value here. we don't know, which is why repair makes sense.

AA

I'm gonna leave you with a quote from greta bloomberg: the 16 year old swedish climate activists, who inspired 1.4 million children to strike.

AA

From school two weeks ago, demanding climate action,, including 250 at our statehouse in indiana,.

AA

She said at last year's un climate conference quote in the year 20 78.. I will celebrate my 75th birthday.

AA

If I have children,, maybe they will spend that day with me.. Maybe they will ask me about you.

AA

Maybe they will ask why you didn't do anything when there was time to act.

AA

You say you love your children above all else and yet you're stealing their future in front of their very eyes.

AA

We cannot solve a crisis without treating it like it's. A crisis. End quote.

AA

This is our truth.. This is our reality.. This is our crisis, whether you like it or not,.

AA

I understand. the change is scary. Change is hard, but the status quo is disaster.

AA

We have to do better., we have to change. it's that simple.. Thank you.

AB

Hi,, my name is tia larson,, I'm a bloomington resident.

AB

It just has occurred to me listening to comments tonight that a lot of people are talking about the past in the president of bloomington's.

AB

Downtown and basing a lot of their ideas about what we should do with this garage on what has happened.

AB

Or what the current state is, and I would say that we need to think about what our downtown could be.

AB

So a more bikable, a more walkable downtown, has a lot of benefits to the community.

AB

To businesses., we know that the slow, where a person moves past a business door.

AB

The more likely they are to walk in and spend money.

AB

Cities all over the world are making changes to make their downtown's.

AB

Or their cities in general, more walkable and bikable in the face of the climate crisis, a great example.

AB

This is oslo norway. they closed off their downtown completely two cars and saw a 10% increase in pedestrians.. So did the business community?.

AB

I would say what a 10 percent increase in people moving slowly past your front door, be a boon to your business or.

AB

Would it damage it?? I think it's really important that we think about the example. we saw earlier of the crumbling downtown.

AB

And how was it saved?? It was saved by somebody thinking outside the box and saying we don't have what we need right now at the time.

AB

Cars were the answer. Cars are not the answer right now,.

AB

We're sticking with the answer to an old problem when our world has changed completely.

AB

People mentioned the lack of growth in the young population in bloomington.

AB

Younger generations, younger populations want more walkable and bikable cities.. We don't want to be stuck in our cars all the time.

AB

We're reading psychological studies about how being stuck in your car commuting causes severe anxiety. It builds up over time.

AB

We know that we can be happier and healthier if we're part of a vibrant community.

AB

And that includes our spaces, where we spend our money.

AB

So that's all. I have to say just really think that we should be a little bit less afraid of how change could.

AB

Possibly maybe damage something and be a little bit open.. Where am I open minded to how?.

AB

Positive changes could actually make our community a lot better.

AC

Thank you, hello,. I'm abbie gardner thanks for hearing us all today.

AC

I am a neighbor councilman ruff.

AC

So in his district see him biking all the time, and I think it's awesome.

AC

I am a new mother in town and just I'm gonna feel like I'm.

AC

Murmuring many other young people who I've seen up here.

AC

But I do think that we need to take this as an opportunity of how our town is spending our money and think about opportunities.

AC

About what our town could be like, we used to.

AC

Have high marks in a bike as a bikable city,, and we no longer have any of those.

AC

Marks,, I am so eloquent, but.

AC

It clearly does not take as much money as a lot of these proposed parking. Garages are to make our.

AC

Streets feel safe for someone to bike.

AC

For for someone to walk for someone who's using their wheelchair to be on the sidewalk.

AC

So that people can scoot around in a bike lane., that's now non-existent in our town.

AC

I think all of these are opportunities for our infrastructure and it's all with how we're spending money.. I.

AC

Just think we can use all of this as a potential to think larger.

AC

And to attracting people that are our age, my age, some of the other speakers in our town.. I.

AC

Don't think that many people are sticking around because we don't have much money.

AC

Job opportunities for much money in our town and maybe that's a separate issue., but but also not we.

AC

I'm not very good at this, but just a concerned citizen.. Thank you for hearing me. um,. I do.

AC

Think we need to be wise about how we're spending our money and maybe think, beyond cars and parking.. Thank you.

AC

AD

Good evening mike mcafee., I'm the executive director for visit bloomington.. I want to thank everybody again for.

AD

Re-Examining this, I I do want to say those last comments, since this is on the record.

AD

Bloomington is still the only. What is it bike friendly, certified city in in the state of indiana?.

AD

I believe so that we haven't lost any of those marks.

AD

2.4 million visitors. come here a year.

AD

96% of them drive, the average party size is 2.5.. That's 900 thousand cars a year that are coming into our community from visitors.

AD

You know half up we're going to indiana university,, but half of them are finding places to park. Definitely in our downtown area.

AD

So I applaud you, I couldn't agree with you more about. We need to decrease our carbon footprint over the next few years.

AD

But it's not gonna happen. In the next five years we sold over 600,000 hotel room nights last year thousand 80,000 increase from the year before.

AD

All that demand all those numbers are only going to increase in the coming years.. We definitely need this garage.

AD

Visit bloomington supports building a new garage. thanks.

AE

Hi cate, rosenberger,. I live in prospect, hill. sorry about my sniffs.. I have a cold.

AE

So my comments tonight are just a series of questions really just for me thinking about this over the past couple months,.

AE

So one question I have is: why do we look at our parking garage as one at a time instead of a comprehensive parking, plan?.

AE

We have agreed to build the one new trades garage.

AE

And we will most likely be building a new garage for the convention center and when the hospital goes away.

AE

We'll have a garage there too, that we can use so, and we already, of course, have other garages. So I think.

AE

Thinking about parking in a more comprehensive way and like total number of spots in downtown.

AE

Would be good for us? I know people have talked about a circulator to connect garages and connect big points downtown, and I think that would be really handy for the new convention center.

AE

Garage in the hospital that would be a and in a few years.

AE

Some people have mentioned this, but why are we in the business of building parking, garages?.

AE

I don't know that that's a city's responsibility and I think if the market.

AE

Demands, it private private companies would build it.

AE

Another question I have is: we haven't, talked a lot about debt service.. So are we considering debt service here?.

AE

We talk about the trades garage being 11 million dollars,, but if we look at a traditional.

AE

I'm not a bonds expert, a bond expert at all.. So if we look at just.

AE

Traditional payback, like monthly, compounding over a 22 year period, that's 19 million dollars. And if we look at.

AE

The bond for this garage 18.5 over 22 years.- that's 30, 3.4 million dollars.

AE

So it's a lot more than the 18.5 that we're talking about a.

AE

Big question I have is for each council person., you know how many, how many spots is enough for you?.

AE

I think it's an interesting question to think.

AE

Do we have enough parking downtown or we're adding garages one at a time? and we're thinking about adding spots to garages.

AE

So like what, when is it enough??

AE

What do you feel like? That's enough., I'm also weak, not gonna. Leave you with a quote.. This is from the mayor of bogota.

AE

He said when advanced city is not one where even the poor have cars.

AE

But rather one where even the rich, you use public transport, thanks.

AF

Hi,, my name is quintin thompson,. I live on kinser pike.. I was born and raised in bloomington.

AF

I'm a graduate student who studies, energy, water and economic development at spea., I'm here against the demolition and.

AF

I'm here for the redevelopment, the extension for the five-year period.

AF

I think there's two major reasons why we shouldn't demolish and then rebuild for a new parking garage.

AF

The first says: it's not financially sound to subsidize this and second.

AF

It's unsustainable and against all of our progressive ideals to demolish a parking garage and then read and then.

AF

Rebuild another parking garage for 18 million dollars in the same place for a small increase in parking availability is not a good use of.

AF

Finances, you're spending, roughly thirty thousand dollars to build each parking spot for an additional. Only additional two hundred parking spots.

AF

That's insane on monday, jimson stated that the council's of financial body of the city and that the power of the council is to field financially poor plans.

AF

This is obviously a poor use of our finances, especially given the context of a new parking garage being built in the trades district.

AF

Furthermore, all modern research from iu purdue ball state.

AF

Demonstrates that the environmentally friendly place making is a top economic development strategy, auto centric.

AF

Infrastructure is no longer the major method of economic development.

AF

Why use our finances for the stated strategy and who's benefited when we do this?? Is it every one?.

AF

Second, given the proliferation and hard and specific evidence on human-caused climate change,.

AF

We cannot continue to build. We cannot continue to build new parking garages.

AF

Despite the claims by the administration that there's no way to make an optimally green parking garage.

AF

The cement industry is the second largest greenhouse gas emitter worldwide behind power generation.

AF

Slapping solar panels, this project will be negligible, offset against the carbon emitted in the building and the use of the parking garage.

AF

Furthermore, we know how hot oh automobile use contributes to climate change.. We need to end the subsidies of fossil fuel use.

AF

That will incentivize other forms of transportation. I'm not asking you to do something radical.

AF

I'm asking you to stop using government stuff cities to incentivize their carbon use.

AF

I'm asking to stop putting government money towards increased carbon emissions. All the candidates during monday's democratic debate stated that, therefore, the new green deal.

AF

Well, this is it put your money where your mouths at this garage will structurally lock us into the same practices for the next twenty to thirty years.

AF

Leaving the burden to change to my generation, a compounding burden.

AF

I realize you will not see the benefit of divesting divesting from fossil fuel subsidies.

AF

But I will and your grandchildren will ask: what did you do with your power to combat climate change?.

AF

AG

Hello,, my name is vox.

AG

Thank you, council for for having us here today. Your full name,, please vox bakhoum.. Thank you candidate, the city council at large.. Yes,.

AG

I'm not gonna rehash this with all the details in the data.

AG

I'm gonna say that we need to to listen to these young and passion folks, a.

AG

Lady ariel earlier mentioned that bloomington is losing its youth population. Those folks under 35. you've got a plethora of.

AG

Eloquent and intelligent educated folks here tonight that, oh in that demographic that told you what they wanted.

AG

They told you that we don't want to drive, we want to have a city, that's bike friendly.

AG

We want to have a city that uses our means of transportation.. We want to invest in our future.

AG

I think every every candidate for city, council, at-large and several of the district candidates tonight have all spoken.

AG

That we repair this garage rather than then.

AG

Tear it down and build a new one., there's no way that you can say that that is the greenest option.

AG

I don't care who they have certify.

AG

It's just putting lipstick on a pig.. We know that building that new structure is is not what we want to do.

AG

I'm gonna add you once again to to make the same smart decision you made to begin with.

AG

Tell the city that that we don't want to borrow from the future.

AG

There's the adage that we we, you know,, we borrow the mayo from our children rather than they inherit from us.

AG

We need to make sure that that we live up to that and.

AG

That we make wise decisions for future because a.

AG

Lot of folks who come up here, and they said lo,, you know,, it's important that we we talk about climate change.

AG

But this isn't going to happen in five years: that's not the dynamic.. This needs to be a thing that has to happen in ten years.

AG

It's it's not a laughable situation anymore. In my 35 year, life span.

AG

I can tell you that the climate has changed in a tremendous way.

AG

Everyone on council understands that I grew up as a kid.

AG

You know playing food feet of snow every year today that that something that young folks can't imagine the climate is changing.

AG

It's going to be a catastrophe, it's going to override the economy., it's something that we have to take on now.. I thank you and I see my time.

AH

Hi I'm gene camper and I.

AH

It seems like every time there's a debate about building parking or not building parking.

AH

Should we build parking, or should we not and encourage people to take alternative transportation?.

AH

Oftentimes the decision is to build the parking and then I wait and I don't see any.

AH

Bold plan to build the infrastructure., we need to help people move out of their cars.. I agree we need.

AH

Alternatives for folks, we need a public transit system.

AH

That is, it will move people around in ways that they need to move around, and we we've done a good job of at least.

AH

Beginning to build some good infrastructure for.

AH

Pedestrians and bikes, but we've got a long way to go on that and I'm not. I.

AH

Get frustrated with waiting for how do we move people out of their cars? If we're just going to build this one parking structure?.

AH

Well, then, what's next to transition out of so much reliance on cars?.

AH

I want to see something concrete and bold too.. I.

AH

Think we all share the goals of trying to address climate change.

AH

But it's operate utilizing that actually making it real. So I would like to see us repair their garage spend.

AH

1.4 million dollars and then look at ways that we can, you know, have a five-year transition plan to really beef up our public transit.

AH

Spends on that, some of that money that we were gonna spend on a great big parking garage and figure out the financing to.

AH

Really invest in our public transit, so we can actually make that transition.

AH

Instead of waiting for the next project, when we'll have the same debate and then.

AH

We'll build the parking and then we'll wait for the the you know.

AH

Public transit infrastructure to help us all get out of our cars and I'm afraid we're not gonna get there unless we operationalize something.

AH

So,, thank you.

A

Thank you any other public comment I I'll just maybe the last one but um,. My name is carmella senior y'all and I'm a business owner and.

AI

Downtown and the fountain square mall, so.

AI

Directly impacted by that fourth street closure.

AI

I've didn't plan to speak tonight, but I guess I was inspired by the discussion to just kind of share.

AI

My experience in the day to day, just for through the three months that it's been closed., I hear every day from our customers and.

AI

You know other employees in the area how hard it is to park downtown.

AI

We are all hearing that all the time.

AI

But I agree with what was just said as like: this is the first meeting.

AI

I've had a chance to attend on this topic,, but I keep hearing.

AI

Repair or rebuild and where's the discussion about maybe?.

AI

Repair, while we figure out what the rebuild is, have a design.

AI

That was a great point.. How can you make an informed decision if you don't have that design and then also, yeah.

AI

Maybe we should look at a rip hair as.

AI

You know part of that total cost, not just the initial bun if it was rebuilt.

AI

Plus the interest, what and then, when you're talking about those numbers and what is one another, 1.4 million,, you know,, what is that?.

AI

It's a drop in the hat if you're looking at 30-some million altogether.

AI

But a repair would buy us that time, those five years.

AI

To come up with better plans, better structures.

AI

What would you do with that space if it wasn't a parking garage,, you know?.

AI

I think that's a question that needs to be addressed and needs to be discussed.

AI

A lot of great points have been brought up tonight and.

AI

But in the day to day, I think it might be smart to look at this as a bigger picture.

AI

And I think that's what I hear. I'm hearing from a lot of the people in this room.

AI

If we repaired today.

AI

We have parking in six months again and.

AI

Which is good for the winter economy,, not everyone that comes downtown, can bike in winter or walk and.

AI

It gives us five years to figure out what are the better solutions.

AI

Thank you,. Thank you.

AJ

Good evening council, my name is ron walker, I'm vice president of operations for cfc property is also.

AJ

Chairperson for the greater bloomington chamber of commerce, board of directors and I've learned in the last thirty minutes, I guess.

AJ

I'm a representative for the middle age, demographic we're still here, and I want to first. thank you again for the cooperation with the city of bloomington.

AJ

When the garage was closed, I think, due to their efforts and the communication, the transition to what I was referring to interim parking has gone pretty smoothly.

AJ

Particularly for employers., I think they've adapted to this currently,. It has gone less smoothly for retailers and I'll focus on that for a minute.

AJ

But before I do, I want to just also say thank you for revisiting this topic.

AJ

That is not an easy thing to do. For council.- I realize it opens you up for more debate and more criticism and.

AJ

We are all trying to make decisions with imperfect information and that's typically even more true for public bodies.

AJ

So thank you for considering this even further with new information that you have.

AJ

We as cfc have felt much increased pressure for parking as.

AJ

A as a property manager for a number of reasons, so primarily that some of the folks who have permits and garages.

AJ

Have difficulty moving around, they may have a physical disability.

AJ

And so they've come to us saying what what can you do to help?.

AJ

And so we have a couple spaces that we have for our security officer for our contractors, for our maintenance technicians.

AJ

We're squeezing them in there we had a a tenant. Last week, one of our largest tenants fell and broke some bones in her foot.

AJ

She's wearing a boot for a little while., so we have found a place for her to park,. You know weird.

AJ

We're doing that where we can we're kind of out of options now and we've had to start patrolling more and lots that we own.

AJ

Which are really only a couple, because people are our looking for a place to park for free.

AJ

But the real concern I have is not with the employers in it in our building, it's with the retailers they they are feeling.

AJ

Feeling it in their sales. they're feeling it from their customers.. It's just a challenge for people to park on the street.

AJ

Because of the pressure that has increased there and what's what's special about the retailers in downtown, bloomington.

AJ

They're, almost all local. all of ours are local businesses.

AJ

They are our entrepreneurs who are taking the risk to make it in.

AJ

What is a very tough tough business right now, and they have to specialize to be able to do that?.

AJ

And so we we work closely with them, because we really value that because we want to keep it alive in downtown bloomington.

AJ

And so we're we're really concerned about that. we've talked with many of them. you'll hear about a petition a little later.

AJ

I think I've looked at who's who's on the petition?.

AJ

It's many of our tenants and what's interesting about it, as many of them are retailers.

AJ

Some of them are large employers. One of them is a union.

AJ

Many of them are our counselors and psychologists who own and operate sole proprietorships in downtown bloomington and.

AJ

They are feeling it because their customers, their clients, are.

AJ

Feeling the pressure and that, and that to me means if they, if they can't operate in this way, if their.

AJ

Clients can't they won't, they won't continue to operate in downtown bloomington.

AJ

When we talk to our businesses and many of them,, you know, not many, but some will say. I just want this problem to go away.

AJ

We just need a garage back, and so they, you know,. I think at that point they kind of want it to be over with as quickly as possible.

AJ

When we tell them we'll be back in five years to tear it down,.

AJ

There they're there. they're feeling on those changes immediately and.

AJ

And so that's a very big concern. The downtown businesses need your support and.

AJ

So we asked for it as well.. Thank you very much.

AK

Good evening, council, aaron, fred, moore president and ceo of the bloomington chamber of commerce.

AK

Thank you very much for your willingness to look again at this issue. With the new information that we had.

AK

That we received the new cost estimates, along with the.

AK

Current fund balances as the different options that you have available, the bond rating and all the other.

AK

Issues that need to go into your consideration about funding this repair or replacement.

AK

The chamber of commerce is definitely in support of a replacement garage being built.

AK

You will have received this afternoon a petition from.

AK

178 individual organizations that have signed the petition requesting a rebuild of the 4th street garage.

AK

They are not just our membership, so we spread it amongst anyone who is interested in looking at that.. So I do want to make sure that you're aware of.

AK

That constituency, that is not here, tonight, but does want you to know that they care very much about the rebuild for the garage.

AK

Since december, we have receded the at the chamber. Information that two businesses that are currently located downtown are actively looking to leave after your vote.

AK

Not to rebuild the garage, they don't feel supported by the council and the city of bloomington.. They would like to grow and continue to.

AK

Provide jobs and income for all of our residents pay taxes.

AK

And be part of that, vibrant downtown that we speak of so highly that we love.

AK

But they don't feel like that is where the future lies.

AK

So they are going to be looking outside our urban core to see what else is available for them.

AK

That's those two businesses alone represent over 200 employees and seven point six million dollars in salaries annually and that's a conservative estimate based on.

AK

The low end of incomes in bloomington,, it also represents 32,000 square feet of empty space.

AK

So,, I don't think that's what we want our downtown to be is empty.

AK

We want to avoid urban sprawl. We want to make sure that we have a compact dense, downtown, where people can come and live and play all together.

AK

Without having all of the things spread out, across, monroe county.

AK

We're going to be able to appreciate our rural nature, while also appreciating those city amenities that we love much.

AK

I'm gonna leave you this evening with a metaphor inviting someone to your house for to spend the weekend with you.

AK

Not building this garage is similar to inviting someone to your house and then once they get there with their bags and everything ready to.

AK

Go to hang out and have fun with you for you to say: I'm sorry., we don't even refer you to sleep.

AK

You have to sleep outside., you have to go sleep in your car.

AK

You have to go, do something else, but the hospitality isn't there for you to be able to spend that time and engage with that. Individual fully?.

AK

So we need you to build a garage so that our businesses feel welcome. Our visitors feel welcome.

AK

Our residents feel welcome the people going to the arts. The waldron was one of the ones that signed our our petition.

AK

Cardinal stage is interested in this as well our restaurants, all of those things.

AK

They want you to be able to put that guestroom up, so they can get people to hang out with them.. Thank you very much.

AL

Thank you counsel for your opportunity for the opportunity to speak with you this evening and for reconsidering this issue.

AL

My name is andrew gunther chaired the bloomington environmental commission. and also a candidate for city council in district 2.

AL

I've spent the last couple weeks walking around downtown and surrounding areas talking to local business owners about this particular issue and parking in general.

AL

Many business owners have reported up to 40 percent decreases in their business activity due to recent limits in parking supply.

AL

And uncertainty is the death of investment in our downtown.

AL

Rankest, downtown or high for both residential and commercial areas and a lack of parking is an unsustainable.

AL

Economic policy for inviting investment for additional housing and additional commercial development.

AL

Betting on a large shift and our transportation options in bloomington within five years is a foolhardy.

AL

Investment and will only seek to harm our economic footing and base.

AL

Sustainability measures in the garage paired with accompany plan urban density can help offset carbon impacts of the garage, and I am supportive of all these measures.

AL

Climate change is real and should be addressed.

AL

However, in district 2, for example, there are already limitations on parking that can accompany commercial development and business capacity. That is negative impacts on businesses, ability to turn over customers and produce revenue.. I.

AL

Do not want to see downtown negatively impact in the same way as these businesses in my district have been.

AL

When it gets hard to travel economic hubs for people to shop or to attend work,.

AL

Many of them do not want to make that effort., they will simply move elsewhere.

AL

Seek a job closer to their home or they will go online to order things such as books, shoes or even food from amazon or other local delivery services.

AL

Our local businesses downtown need stable, sustainable parking. They need options available.

AL

For customers to shop, for customers, to peruse and for customers to leave, to go on to other commercial activities. Downtown and.

AL

Surrounding areas, I urge you all to reconsider your position to support the parking garage being rebuilt and help support local business downtown.

AL

Not just big players who can afford rising costs, downtown and elsewhere.. Thank you.

AM

Mark haggerty, I sense large market forces at work in this transaction.. I.

AM

Am always leery of bonds? I know how they get sold.. I know how they're marketed., I'm always.

AM

Offended by the idea that we can't save money as a community and execute our projects.

AM

Without having to borrow a bond and.

AM

How that comes out to be.

AM

Mandatory to do a project like this seems to me to be.

AM

Undemocratic in the extreme.

AM

If art attracts people, I.

AM

Mean should we really be involved, in?.

AM

Marketing the downtown. is it lucrative enough that?.

AM

Places can provide for their own parking, can get together their own fund and provide for the kind of clients that they're trying to attract and and.

AM

That we don't have to provide that interests infrastructure like we're already providing for a. I use, downtown alcohol dorms, all their security, the sewage, the water, the electrical.

AM

Do we have to keep funding other people's projects? Do we have to fund businesses?? Is that our responsibility as as?.

AM

The public, I don't think so, I I don't. I see this as an economic project, a project in economic development itself and.

AM

And while art has supposed to attract people to bloomington, we've thrown our music.

AM

Under the bus of capitalism and said sink or swim., there's no not even a place to play.

AM

We've lost a rhino's, we lost the players pub.

AM

Everything local about this top town is.

AM

Dissolving in this frenzy of economic development that has put these high-rises in our downtown and.

AM

Forced gentrification, further and further west so that people that have grown up in my neighborhood couldn't.

AM

Possibly afford a house in our neighborhood.

AM

We've gone from 80% black to 80% white in my name.

AM

This is all a trend that that hasn't been good for.

AM

Me and my native culture here, the culture of music, the culture of art, the culture of.

AM

Vision, poetry, literature.

AM

Good things towards a future some possible way to use this huge corporate institution.

AM

To provide health care for our veterans and our jail, a vision of some sort and we're losing that.

AM

Through these trends of economic development, our south side of the square used to be where we could get a studio for 30 bucks a month.

AM

And have a bed and an amplifier and some books up there.

AM

And there were hundreds of us, 150 or 200 of us up there.

AM

That's all being forced out., so think about that in your decision. How we can we possibly provide a place for people to play for god's sake?.

AM

A

Thank you any other public comment.

AN

Hello,, my name is adrian evans fernandes. I am.

AN

Vice-Chair possibly acting chair at the moment of the city parking. Commission.- I.

AN

Didn't I was holding off speakings, there were so many people who wanted to talk but and you've seen our report and our recommendations from the parking. Commission.- I do want to remind that.

AN

Our parking commission is nine people who worked very hard at parking.

AN

We've looked at the parking needs of the downtown corridor from all possible angles,.

AN

And I just want to remind you, know, our recommendations back in december was that you know.

AN

Given the state of the parking garage, the degradation that had happened over the years without without follow-up and care that.

AN

We per commended that the garage be replaced.

AN

We have talked at length with presidents of downtown the people who owned businesses.. We have numbers who are business owners downtown.

AN

We have thought very carefully about.

AN

What we think is good for downtown.. What seems to reflect our values were very mindful of the issues of climate change.

AN

So I did just want to remind you know: our recommendation at the time was that we didn't see the value in spending money to repair a.

AN

Parking structure that we would most likely have to replace the 4th street garage is situated in place.

AN

That is very useful to many residents.. It is used by a very diverse population of our citizens.

AN

It is people who work downtown its business owners.. It's people who want to go to a show.

AN

So this is one of those garages that has a very show. There's a large need there and if the idea of.

AN

Repairing it and say five years from now. we'd be considered, would we even need that garage?.

AN

It's difficult to say that in five years that particular garage would not be needed., so that is all I wanted to say.. Thank you.

A

Thank you last call for public comment.

AI

No,, I'm sorry, it's one one-shot deal here tonight,, but we will be discussing this again next wednesday,. So please come back.

A

Alright, going back to council members, are there first of all,? Are there any follow-up questions of staff?.

A

Okay, so I have a follow-up question,, but I don't know if.

A

The staff person I need is here,, but my follow-up question is about.

A

The cost of the debt service, so the bond you're requesting, is 18.

A

Million five hundred forty thousand dollars. does that include the cost of debt service or how much is the cost of debt service?.

H

I'll do my best to try to answer that the controller is unavailable at the moment.

H

That my understanding is, it is the the.

H

Current cost- and it does not include the repayment costs over the 20-year life of the bonds., so that would be a different.

H

Scheduled amount than the principal amount that we would be borrowing is the 18 million.

A

So, do you have any estimate as to how much it will cost us?.

A

H

We would have an estimate based on that maximum of 6% and we'll try to get that from the controller here in a second and get your answer.

H

We won't know until we sell the bonds really what that percent will be.

H

It's unlikely to be that high, but we did estimate it based on the high amount, the maximum amount.

H

So we'll get that for you. okay?.

A

Mr. allen, did you have some figures for me?.

AO

Only to say that kind of to reiterate, we can't provide specific figures on it.

AO

Can you give your name and my name is larry allen, an assistant city, attorney?.

AO

Sorry about that thank you. chairwoman, the maximum number again as cited in the bond resolution.. It can't exceed 6%, otherwise we wouldn't be able to issue the bond. The current.

AO

Bond rates have fluctuated a little bit somewhere between.

AO

I want to say three point: five and four percent over the last couple of months for a double a-plus rated bond.

AO

Like we would be taking out with a 2021 year, outlet.

A

So 6% a year, right.

AO

No,, the 6% is the maximum that we could possibly bond at. They are not 6% currently for a 21 year bond at a.

AO

Double-A rating that has fluctuated according to market forces.

AO

It depends when we sell the bond, as the deputy mayor noted, that has fluctuated in the past few months somewhere between 3.5 and 4%.

A

So the maximum is 6% 1, 1 million $112,000.

A

6% of the 18 540 for the bond to even be issued, but to be very clear.

AO

The bond rating has not gone above 6% in.

AO

Somewhere., I want to say, maybe, since the 1980s.

AO

So we don't amount, okay.. Thank you.

A

All right now we'll go to councilmember comments who would like to start councilmember chopra.

D

So maybe some people picked this up earlier,, but I'm super annoyed that we're here again.

D

D

Part of it has to do with.

D

The reason we're here we're here, because the.

D

Estimated price is approximately 25 percent more than we thought it would be. I.

D

Don't think that's significant enough to change my mind. well,. It definitely isn't and I don't think it's significant enough to.

D

To be discussing this topic in the exact same way that we discussed before it doesn't change the.

D

The variables of the decision, because, of course, if the five-year repair plan is 25 percent, more.

D

Then probably the 25-year repair or the 10 year and the 15 year repair plans, gonna cost 25 percent more and so is the new.

D

Garage itself, so.

D

It doesn't change the matter from from the last time we spoke about this.

D

I did want to highlight something that I found interesting on the.

D

On instagram., it's a.

D

It's a would it be a page or a count or someone to follow?. It's called downtown, be town parking, probs.

D

Downtown be town parking, probs, please. follow it.. This person is out.

D

Taking photos of vacant parking spots at all times and all hours of the day in downtown bloomington.

D

And I know it's anecdotal,, but it could be me.

D

I come downtown bloomington, not so much during the work day, anymore admittedly,, but I up until.

D

October was coming downtown, it all all days all hours.

D

I've never not come downtown because of parking and I've never come down and saw. oh, geez, no spots., bye.

D

It just doesn't happen.. I come down for cardinal stage productions on saturday nights and find spots.. I come downtown at 10 a.m. on.

D

You know fridays and saturdays to have meetings.. I have lunch on the weekdays.

D

It is never ever ever a problem.

D

And again,, I know that I'm just speaking from my own experience,, but I really think there's like a perception and reality problem here.

D

So, you know,. Is there a parking problem.

D

Sure,, if you have a problem with not getting the exact freakin parking space that you want.

D

You know,, then I guess, there's a problem but if you're unwilling to walk.

D

You know one or two tenths of a mile, then.

D

There's not a problem people in cities. Do it all the time.. You would call ourselves a city. oh, no,. No, don't holla cause a town.

D

We're a city, bum. well,, then let's act like one. I.

D

Think that it is the smartest thing. I do think we need this parking, your eyes., I mean think it why it's there.

D

Let's keep it going, I'm happy to say yes,, let's spend the.

D

1.4 million for the five-year-old your repair plan and reassess and in five years, if we have new city council.

D

Members up here,, who are.

D

Not progressive whatsoever. and they decide to.

D

Say yes to a new parking garage and so be it, but I'm not willing to do that.

D

It's my understanding that next week on the agenda, the only item on.

D

It is, is this piece of legislation or resolution rather and kind of debating whether or not I'll, be here.

D

I'm gonna be a no vote, so it's sort of pointless and I don't really feel like I mean hours, hours and hours and hours wooden spent on this topic.

D

I'm really really done with it, so I appreciate everyone coming out this evening, actually fewer people than I then I expected.

D

I thought it was pretty cool that the chamber offered the three childcare.

D

I think maybe it was just a little bit late.

D

Announcement but that's really awesome, thank you for that, and thank you all for listening to what is probably one of my longer comments.

A

Thank you. Other council comment.

A

Nobody else has comments.

A

Councilmember bolin, I'll take a crack at it.. I want to agree with customer chopra that we are here about $300,000.

E

It was 1.1 million in december,, it's 1.4 million. Now.

E

I don't remember, be joining the majority of the parking commission in their vote.

E

I think it was seven zero one and I passed on it,, but I did vote for repair in december and.

E

After hearing the presentation tonight and all the comments I.

E

Haven't heard a change, I did do some math.

E

352 spaces and the existing garage at one point: four million dollars for five years.

E

Equals seven hundred ninety five dollars.

E

Per space., that's what would it cost to reopen the garage and get those spaces back.

E

527 spaces at eighteen point: five million for 50 years.

E

Comes out to about seven hundred and two dollars a space, it's not a dramatic difference in the value per space of repair versus replace.

E

It's slightly more expensive and part of the reason I voted for repair several months ago was because.

E

We know that there's a convention center coming and even the.

E

The most I mean,, I support the convention center. I've been.

E

Open in my goal of seeing a civic center get built, and I expect it's going to be some parking there., my logic was.

E

Reopen the garage as soon as possible and between now and then we're gonna have built.

E

I mean if I'm, if, if I, if my guess, is correct.

E

The first thing that will get build will be there parking for the convention center and we'll have a fallback.

E

While we replace the four street garage, if that's, what we're going to do,.

E

And that logic hasn't changed for me either so.

E

You know, I'm wondering, along with my colleague, councilor chopra, why we're here again.

E

Here's why we're here is because it did not occur to me.

E

It has never happened before in my 16 years in counts that I have wanted to.

E

Have a roll call vote on whether to introduce a resolution, because.

E

Resolutions don't get a first reading, they can be introduced in committee of the whole and it did not occur to me.

E

We have nothing in our procedure.

E

You know I've never had to do it before and there's nothing in our printed agenda. That says here's your opportunity to vote on whether or not we would even hear the resolution.

E

I'm going to certainly be working to change that because I would have voted against hearing this in the first place.

E

There is no such a thing as a need for parking. There's a demand for it.

E

The adequacy of parking supply depends on several variables once I define adequate.

E

Somebody described a business's need for sustainable parking., there's a funny oxymoron.

E

Sustainable must mean economically sustainable for the businesses.

E

I hope that every retailer in town of which I used to be one appreciates the fact that we have been subsidizing.

E

The parking that their customers have been using for at least thirty five years.

E

And finally, I've heard the term city used tonight. This is not the city until the council says so the administration and the council together.

E

Make up the city, I have to say this and it's a harsh thing to say,, but you know there's a parallel to it, to say that we can't change overnight in the face of.

E

What many people presented as climate change? Other people are presented, as?.

E

Sustainability of the city socially, is like saying that we can't talk about regulating guns after a mass murder.

E

We can talk about it now. We must talk about it now and I have to point out to the city of kenosha in the year 2000 built themselves.

E

For about nine point, something million dollars a two-mile, long streetcar line electric wires overhead rail in the street,; okay,.

E

For eighteen million dollars, we could build a two-and-a-half to three mile streetcar line.

E

Connecting every parking spot in downtown going all the way to the sample gates. Ten years ago, when I floated this idea to the van.

E

Architect of the university, he said he thought it was a fantastic idea if they would extend it from sample gates to the.

E

Corner of seventh and woodlawn, you would be delighted to.

E

Build an extension of the rail all the way up to the stadium, because you said everybody.

E

Who is going to a game after the game wants to go one place and that's downtown?.

E

That's a mind: blowing idea that I've been sitting on for 10 years.

E

Because I thought that you know that kind of thing usually only gets built with federal funds and if you can get.

E

Federal funds to build you know any kind of transit, it's usually 80/20. They usually.

E

Subsidize 80 percent of it or more,, but we could build a streetcar line for the cost of this garage.

E

Think about that for a minute we could build a circulator to connect.

E

All the parking downtown everything from second and college to the trades district and the sample gates in a big t right now,.

E

So, meanwhile, have here in front of me a copy of a page from a planning department land, you study of downtown from the year 2002.

E

And I want to read to you the top seven uses of land in.

E

Downtown bloomington in 2002.

E

Number seven was university related.

E

3.7 percent of land number six was government uses 3.8 percent of land.

E

Number five was restaurant, slash bar four percent of land.

E

Number four was residential.. I was a resident of downtown back in the year 2000 six point: eight percent of land.

E

Number three was office: space, nine point: six percent of land.

E

Number two was commercial space 11 points, three percent of land, the number one use of land downtown in 2002 was parking.

E

Forty seven point: nine percent.

E

Now I defy anyone to tell me that we've built so much since 2002.

E

That we've reduced parking to anything close to the second grade, excuse.

E

Now,, this is a year that predated smallwood., so that might have counted his parking.

E

All right., that was a big half a square city block that was turned into.

E

To something that was might otherwise have been used as parking, but.

E

47.9% of land in the 118.

E

Acres of downtown considered by this study, was to voters parking.. This is downtown.

E

Imagine how much land is devoted to parking at college mall?.

E

Or anywhere else in the city, if this is the densest part of the city,.

E

Okay, now I agree that, with several things that my council or county counterpart?, mr. mcann said he, I think most eloquently summed up.

E

That there is a case for.

E

You know vertical parking downtown, I'm not entirely against it. I.

E

Agreed, I changed my mind on the trades district garage because it's better.

E

According to the guru of parking himself, donald shoe.

E

If you're going to have a dense development, don't make each individual building build their own parking concentrated in one place and.

E

I voted on that because I expect that all the land of the trades is will get built out.

E

That's the only reason that I agreed to it, so I'm not entirely against the idea of building this, but we need more time to develop it.

E

I absolutely detest the idea that the administration.

E

Refuses to soak to what they say: negotiate design with the council.

E

It's not unreasonable to say how many spaces are we going to build? you know,? What's the.

E

What's the cost going to be it's not unreasonable to ask that I understand why they don't want to because they want to be flexible.

E

In negotiating terms with people, but.

E

If the administration had made a more persuasive argument.

E

An argument that wasn't that didn't try to claim the mantle of sustainability when it's not a sustainability argument.

E

I might have been persuaded, but I seriously doubt that secretly group which has their office at third and roger street, has a need for parking.

E

Fourth and walnut,, I you know,. I think that if you repair the garage now it's open in six months.

E

It solves the retail problem by august. Every retailer that benefited from those spaces will have it again.

E

How much is a year of parking of 352 spaces worth to the retailers downtown?? How much commerce is that going to be?.

E

I'm just very disappointed.. This question has come up again.. I would not have brought it back up again.

E

I still believe that repair gives us the opportunity.

E

To make the plan that we all know,, we need the parking plan to finish.

E

The transportation plans that we can figure out,, but what part parking plays in it.

E

But just from a financial perspective, let alone.

E

Sustainability or the environment, social or environmental sustainability.

E

I just don't understand why we're here again.. Thank you.

A

All right further councilmember comment: council member rallo.

G

Well, I'd like to just pick up on where this comes from bravoman.

G

Referred to because I was looking at the 2002 study and that was surface parking lot.

G

Occupied a great deal of that 47%.

G

That's downtown land., that's extremely valuable.

G

Why? Because we use it for business, we use it for residents.

G

It's a very inefficient use of land to have.

G

Surface parking lots damn town and it makes for a very anti pedestrian.

G

Well built environment.

G

I wanted to bring us back to the. I think the fundamental point, that this is a replacement garage.

G

I'm not building a new garage, we're replacing a garage, and I think it's very clear that we can't do without the 300 and proximately 350 spaces that are there now.

G

It's clear that the the repair of the current garage, this garage is more costly than anticipated.. It's not just.

G

$300,000., it is continuing spectrum and it is the quite.

G

Probability that it will be closed again because needing more repairs.

G

That cost is a cost externalized to businesses.

G

Businesses need predictability. This garage is not going to have offer that kind of predictability.

G

This garage will be ambiguous in terms of whether it will be used or not, and whether it needs to be torn down.

G

Next year, or five years or or sometime in between, it needs to be closed., maybe indefinitely. who knows?.

G

So I think the most prudent way forward is to demolish and rebuild.

G

From a budgetary perspective, putting millions of dollars into a structure, that's going to be trying to torn down in the fairly near term to me is a total waste of money.

G

And I think that since we can't do without the garage, we need to rebuild it, now. we're rebuilding a plus 200 spaces.

G

Why is this needed??

G

If you look at downtown bloomington incorporated census, data, we've increased in downtown resonance by about 15 percent per year.. We have over 10,000 residents now living downtown.

G

We've increased employees by 7% per year per annum.. We've increased businesses at about five percent per year.

G

So we're increasing residents, businesses and so forth much much faster than we're increasing.

G

Parking that parking is going to be needed. I mean,, I don't think.

G

In terms of sustainability and I've devoted.

G

Most of my adult life to that.

G

To not build a garage, I think, will have the effect of pushing businesses out of downtown.

G

So the comments were made, for instance, about expanding public transit. Absolutely we need to invest in that and in fact,.

G

Federal government funds- the state government government- is not.

G

Fitting the bill in terms of the needs of bloomington transit and seems that.

G

Local government will have to step up.

G

We need to do things like increase energy production.

G

Pv electricity, for instance, yes,. We need to expand biking and we're on our way to platinum, biking.

G

Status, but we also need to attend to the build community.

G

How will we occupy the land??

G

If we do not accommodate businesses downtown, then we will then what we? What we'll see is then push through the perimeter of the city.

G

So I think it was lynn coyne who raised the really excellent question at a previous meeting, and that is why punish downtown businesses.

G

A corollary is why place downtown businesses at a competitive, disadvantage?.

G

To the periphery of the city, where sprawl is occurring?

G

by not building this garage., we're going to induce sprawl.

G

That is unsustainable because they'll go outside to west 3rd street and build and have cheap land relatively cheap land and build.

G

Large extensive surface parking lots.

G

So,, let me just address, spend another minute addressing.

G

Sustainability features which I think mr. rosenberger called greenwashing. I take exception to that part, smart.

G

Certification, which is administered by the green building certification institute, is the best we can do and.

G

We took months negotiating with the administration for all of those features that were mentioned. That is.

G

Coverage of solar pv cells in the garage.

G

Electrical vehicle charging stations, an accommodation for more so conduits, for that.

G

Bicycle parking first floor: commercial, retail space.

G

Those are all features that make it much better structure and much more sustainable.

G

And so they shouldn't be just brushed off as nothing.. I think they're very important.

G

No, they're not actually, but.

G

If you have that ideological, you know that they can only be nothing, then you won't consider anything else.

G

So the difficulty that most of us confronted back in december.

G

Was the hike consideration? Because we had an indeterminate height and the administration has worked with counsel and.

G

Brought back a proposal that brings the height within a contextual.

G

Permissible height of adding a maximum of 35 feet to the existing structure, height,, which is 43. so 78 feet.

G

I think that that fits well enough within our downtown is not to be excessive.

G

Discussing climate change considerations., I think I'm absolutely aware of the threat of the ipcc warnings.

G

I think in fact, I think the first action I climate that discounts that the city took was at the council level back in 2005,, which was to.

G

Adopt a resolution that supported the kyoto protocol in reduction of greenhouse gases., so that was almost 15 years ago.. I.

G

Was I was involved in that I did? I was involved in the first greenhouse gas assessment reduction plan.

G

In the last ten years, we've reduced greenhouse gas emissions by 13%.

G

We've achieved other types of multimodal transportation.

G

Those are all increasing and we'll continue doing that.. There are other ways to achieve carbon neutrality other than.

G

Transportation, if you just look at transportation,, yes, it's a huge it's a huge thing to to to do, but we have other means to do that.

G

Tightening building envelopes, various other conservation methods, alternative energy production, which I mentioned sequestration, either through tree planting or or roots oil, biomass,.

G

There are other ways in which we can address climate change,, but I go back to the fundamental, which is that.

G

Businesses have already said that, if, if that predictability and.

G

The needed parking is not downtown, then they will go to the to the county, and so we will be responsible for the sprawl that then extends into the county.

G

Much rather avoid that and replace this garage add additional parking that will be needed for the convention center.

G

Which is coming, which we've already agreed on as a council and.

G

And then work on everything else that's been mentioned tonight because I think we're all in agreement that we need to increase every other effort that we can make.

G

For transportation other than car car travel, so I'll be supporting this.. Thank you.

A

Any other councilmember comment.

A

Councilmember ruff.

J

Know when this came before us.

J

In combination with the trades district garage, I voted.

J

Against the new, a new garage in the trades district., I forget what the what the overall vote on council was.

J

But I voted against that garage sort of I had to simplified the argument as much as possible and.

J

Someone I thought in the public, made the great a great argument, which was this is supposed to be about the future: the future economy, the future and.

J

The future cannot be about driving in parking garages and.

J

So I voted against that this. This 4th street guys.

J

It's much more complicated to me.. It's.

J

It's been there decades.

J

It's part of the existing infrastructure, the downtown. I was fine with.

J

With repairing it and with this new information.

J

I'm not I'm still not sure now.

J

After tonight's discussion, exactly where I am at repair versus.

J

Versus rebuilding there's a lot to think about one thing: I do.

J

Want to say, that?, you know,, we hear a lot of those folks, who are.

J

Whose main arguments seem to be about the health of the downtown economically in downtown business?.

J

And they will also say, and we care about climate change too,. We also we care just as much as anybody about the global environment.

J

But the folks on the other side, who are.

J

Primarily concerned about this is a policy reflection of of how we're not changing and doing what we need to do.

J

With climate change, if we rebuild and expand this garage and invest a lot of money into it., I.

J

Don't often hear them saying at the same time than saying yes,, but we also care about.

J

Downtown to health of downtown businesses and in downtown merchants and downtown economy, but they clearly do. I think the argument really goes both ways.

J

That those who are concerned about the future and about this as a.

J

Climate change issue and climate change policy statement.

J

Care they can make the same claim that they care just as much about the downtown businesses as those who are.

J

Primarily placing their argument on the economy of the downtown, as also caring about.

J

About climate change,, I think they they need to be seen as sort of off the sides of the same coin.. We all care tremendously about both of them.

J

But I do, I do just feel like we, you know some some folks are not really getting what?.

J

The other side is saying I mean to me, and I think was illustrated tonight.

J

When, when someone says.

J

That people need to drive need they need, they need this parking and.

J

It'll be more need for it in the future, more and more need, and that's why we have to do this.

J

Suggests to me that that's not seeing that that's actually an illustration of the problem.

J

To the people who are concerned concerned about the future and by climate change, that statement is a great illustration of what the problem is.

J

What's wrong and why we have, we cannot continue business as usual. What I have to stop start doing things dramatically differently. Also.

J

There was a comment made that that we need the people need to feel welcome.

J

In downtown bloomington, people need to feel welcome when they come. that's true, that's important,, right?.

J

But feeling welcomed and and how important that is versus, I.

J

Know the other side is thinking. How does that stack up? That argument stack up against famine?.

J

Mass climate, refugee migration.

J

Droughts, fire flood war, disease, economic collapse.

J

And I just I feel, like that's, not really being absorbed.

J

By people that that is that's the lens through which a lot of the mostly younger most of the younger folks here tonight., this folk are seeing us through.

J

So this one, this particular issue for this 4th street garage to me.. It's just it's very complicated., there's a lot of arguments on both sides.. I don't I'm not sure.

J

I really fully have my head around the the sprawl argument, if it, if, if not doing this in.

J

Providing some additional parking will drive additional.

J

Greenhouse gas emissions because it'll drive development farther out, which will force more overall dry.

J

You know, there's a lot. I still have to think about on this, so I'm just gonna have to pass tonight.

J

And that's not a cop out., it's just!

J

This is on a final vote.. This is just a committee.

J

Recommendation vote and I just need to think about this more.

A

Thank you. Other counsel, comment councilmember sandberg.

L

What has changed and what has not changed.

L

From my perspective, quite a bit has changed since the first time this came to us and.

L

As far as my position, my position hasn't changed because, of course, when we heard the first go-around.

L

We heard many of the same arguments from.

L

Generations that are concerned about climate change and the really.

L

Cataclysmic changes that are ahead of us that we need to be mindful of. We certainly do.

L

As well as the stakeholders in the downtown, who are.

L

Certainly,, making the valid claims about the commercial vibrancy the downtown and who this is going to impact.

L

And so again my mind hasn't been changed because I was, I was sold from the beginning that the replacement.

L

Option was the wiser course with respect to being fiscally responsible.

L

To me, a temporary five-year less than five year fix that now.

L

This is significantly changed since the first time this came before us. There are.

L

Extended costs and it it seems even less.

L

Practical or pragmatic for me to just put a bandaid on something that clearly does need a more surgical repair and.

L

So, what's before us tonight?- and this has not changed- is it's the approving the financing of the demolition and replacement of the 4th street garage.

L

This is the financing piece and a lot of people were here concerned about the design.. That's that comes later.

L

The design is later what we are first and foremost.

L

Talking about tonight is: where are we going to get the funding to be able to do this?.

L

And is this a necessary investment in?, the economic health, the vibrancy of our downtown and and quite frankly, our city's economy?.

L

That we really could jeopardize if we're not smart here and making the right call and making the right investments.

L

There's also been a lot of talk about. You know.

L

Each side is very passionate about where they're coming from., we hear gentrification.. We hear capitalism gone amok.

L

We hear oh you're, you know, you're, going to hurt the the visitors and and.

L

You know all the people participating in the arts. one of the things that I do as a council person, and I do this all the time.. I.

L

Listened very carefully to who is here in chambers,, but I'm also thinking about who is not here tonight.

L

Who is this gonna hurt? That is not here to speak to us tonight?.

L

And I think about the commuters, who need their jobs, who have to commute from lawrence, county and owen, county and other places to come here and, and they are.

L

Because we are not a sophisticated city that has a sophisticated transit system., we're not london. we're not chicago.

L

We don't have buses., I lived in chicago, I hopped on a bus, and I was in the loop in ten minutes from the north side.. We don't have that here.

L

How are we going to get that? I agree? that's a good thing, but are we being pragmatic and realistic about? Where is the funding going to come from for us to have this sophisticated?.

L

Mass transit system- that's going to help incentivize people to not use their vehicles.

L

I would agree with everyone here tonight that speaks about the urgency of climate change.

L

That's an important thing to do,, but this is not what we're talking about tonight.

L

We're talking about an investment, a bond investment, that's going to give us parking! Infrastructure.! That's going to keep our downtown viable.

L

Economically sound and viable for the many working-class people.

L

This is social equity,, which is every bit a piece of sustainability, as it is.

L

The environmental concerns and the economic concerns is who are the working class people who do rely on their vehicles to get from where they.

L

Live to the center of the downtown to have working opportunities.

L

Other people who need to use the downtown for not just recreational use but for business use who come to the courthouse.

L

We need to be mindful of the infrastructure that we have in the downtown and as councilmember rallo said, this isn't a new brand spanking.

L

New thing, this is a replacement garage that is actually going to fill the gap of a need that we currently have in the here and now, which I do think.

L

Is important so I will be supporting the idea of.

L

Replacement, I do think that is the fiscally responsible move.

L

I thought so before and now that the facts have changed. I think so in even more of a strong measure.

L

A lot of passion here tonight,, but there are a lot of people here, too,.

L

Who we hear from who are not here tonight, speaking passionately., I do want to commend.

L

Councilmember jeff mckim. I believe his statements reflect a lot of what I feel I felt he was very.

L

Concise and very eloquent in his persuasive points about.

L

Both factors that are here speaking their mind tonight about the environmental concerns, as well as the.

L

Economic development and actually being a more sustainable option to keep your parking centralized and not have people.

L

Having to to drive all over the place in order to park., thank you.

A

Any other council comment.

A

We need to make sure everybody gets the first bite at the apple first councilmember sims,. Thank you.

M

Some of the things that we've heard from that this panel up here is is a very interesting and pertinent question.

M

Why are we here, tonight? and I think, a lot of the mutual debate. The opposite sides of debate is a good reason why we are here tonight.

M

And while we were discussing this again.

M

Another one of my colleagues would not have voted to even further this discussion and I can truly respect that.

M

I had wherever would have voted to continue discussion. This resolution.

M

My position that I've held since last december.

M

Will not fundamentally,, it will not change. There has been new information.

M

And some of the beliefs that I held and many of the people that I discussed with him, particularly those in the business community.

M

Has not swayed me to change, I do listen, there is.

M

Well to opposite sides: there there is support. There's opposition. I've always advocated further collaboration, because I think there's middle ground.. I don't think there is a yes-or-no.

M

Answer to all this., I think there's yes or no believes I think, there's yes and no fat, but I think from a community.

M

I don't think there is a yes or no answer to this and I think further.

M

Collaboration will be helpful.. I think there can be a compromise.

M

Again, there is not a clear-cut, yes or no.

M

There is middle ground that I think we can, that can be explored and further discussed and.

M

My position that I've held since the last discussion will not change and I will support.

M

Replacing the 4th street garage. Thank you.

A

Councilmember store bell., yes,.

I

Greenways totally for them, climate change totally against it.

I

But this isn't about that.

I

What's interesting is we're council members and we think of our city as this little city with a circle around it.

I

But we're really just a dot in a regional economy and.

I

The regional economy, if you saw the map of where everybody was that came, and.

I

Participated in this economy. they're all over the place.

I

All over the place, and that's just how it is and.

I

We've needed this parking garage, we needed it when it was first built.. It really brought that city back.

I

I've seen the city when it was in disrepair and disarray, and you know these planners come to town and they say.

I

You people don't know how lucky you are in this economy.

I

You know, you're, very fortunate and I did not want to see a giant monster garage built.. I.

I

Saw pictures that scared the crap out of me. They were.

I

96 feet tall and had triangles glued to it.. You know,, that's not what we want in the downtown.

I

I'm still not convinced 78 feet is acceptable.

I

But I do think we need to rebuild and I'm I.

I

Was ready to go with a 70 foot height last time and.

I

I'm just I'm gonna pass tonight because I want to hear more about about the height the economics of waiting.

I

Probably is not a good idea., so I'm going to pass and I'm still thinking about.

I

The height and the compatibility of the structure, but the economy is bigger than we imagined it.

I

Nobody's riding in from green county on a bicycle.. Thank you.

A

All right, well,, I'm the only one who hasn't taken a first bite at this apple,, so I will go next.

A

It's difficult to know where to start, because there are so many.

A

Things that I'd like to say, I really appreciate everybody who spoke tonight from the public.

A

There were many eloquent comments and a lot of very knowledgeable people spoke this evening.

A

I'm going to just go down a list of things that I jotted down, while other people were speaking.

A

So I apologize if it's a little bit disjointed. I'll, try to bring it back together. At the end.

A

First of all,, we can have downtown restrooms and more covered bicycle parking without building a new parking garage, and I'm in favor of that.

A

Secondly, today is not like the past.. I appreciate what mr.

A

Coyne said,, you know and showing I think, who was it from cfc who showed the images of downtown and dilapidated buildings?.

A

Which koch incorporated invested- and this is a new era- global climate change- is an emergency.. I.

A

Disagree vehemently with my colleagues who said this is not about climate change.. This is.

A

About climate change., this is about changing our behaviors. In the light of.

A

Threats to our continued existence on this planet, that is not an exaggeration.

A

Read the ipcc report from last october.: we need to reduce.

A

Climate change dress it with greenhouse gas emissions drastically and.

A

Get to zero emissions by 2050.

A

Okay next point: it is not inevitable that we will have to build a new garage.. Everybody says well.

A

Fiscally,, let's not put a bandaid on it because in five years off turn it down and build a new one anyway,.

A

That's not a foregone conclusion. as a matter of fact, if I have anything to say about it., we're gonna, do aggressive transportation demand management.

A

Investment in transit, create better bike paths, have a downtown commuter shuttle for people from green county who are not going to bike in and.

A

Not need this in five years. okay,, so I don't buy that argument.

A

Other people said we cannot lose 500 parking spaces downtown.

A

We're not there were 352 spaces in the current garage.. I am not proposing to tear down that garage.

A

I am proposing to repair that garage and give us at least five years of time.

A

To change our behaviors, which we must do because of climate change,.

A

You know employers like to be downtown.

A

It's there are available properties with a lot of parking that are sitting empty.. I live right near the old rca plant.

A

Which you know part of it is, is catalan. A part of it is.

A

The social security office, but a vast.

A

Portion of that area is vacant.

A

So, let's put a park-and-ride there, have the shuttle go by there,? You know every 15 minutes take people downtown.

A

There are other places down in the city, not sprawl, that is infill.

A

There are other places where we can either do a circulator bus or where people who absolutely.

A

Businesses who absolutely insist upon having cars could set up shop.

A

This repair option will get that garage back on line by august. I.

A

Understand that businesses are struggling right now and tourists,, you know, summer is a hot time for tourists.

A

It's going to be tough, but it'll be tough for a whole hell of a lot longer. If we tear it down and build a new garage.

A

Um, somebody said,, you know they were talking to businesses downtown and they just want this problem to go away.

A

Climate change is not going away, people, and this is about climate change.. This is.

A

You know,, we can burn our head in the sand, but then our grandchildren aren't gonna have anything to inherit from us.

A

If we don't give a shit about future generations, go ahead, don't change anything business as usual.

A

But if you do care about future generations,, please.

A

We need to change our actions now and I'm I apologize. If that sounds like a personal affront to anybody here or out there.

A

I know everybody cares about their grandchildren., I'm not saying you don't.

A

But I'm saying you really have to prioritize reducing greenhouse gas emissions. we've got to. I.

A

Would really like to know- and I will talk with miss pred more later- how the petition was presented.

A

To the businesses, unions and individuals who signed the petition that the chamber presented to us.

A

Was it presented as do you want downtown parking, or do you not want downtown parking or was it presented as.

A

Do you want a new garage in two years and nothing in between, or do you want the same garage?.

A

We already have repaired open in six months.. I would just like to know, because that's a big difference.

A

Addressing the two businesses that are looking at leaving the downtown., that's very unfortunate.

A

I think it's very valuable to have employees downtown supports the downtown businesses it and contribute contributes to the vibrancy downtown.

A

Please, who are these businesses come and talk to us, come and talk to me.. I will meet with you.

A

Let's try to figure out a solution. I think that you know having the current parking garage repaired in six months.

A

That could really help you out much quicker.. So, let's talk., I I really don't like this.. Oh these two businesses.

A

I can't say no,, but two businesses come on out., let's talk., let's figure out a solution.

A

So I think we need to fast-track the transportation demand, went management.

A

For those of you don't know what that is educator up here, it's you know finding those people who could possibly not take a car and making it easier for them to do that to not take a car.. It's not saying.

A

You who have a bad hip?, we're taking your car away.. You have to take the bus and walk to the bus every day.. That's not what it is.

A

It is saying: hey you you're 40 years, old. you're in good shape,.

A

This bike path here was a little dangerous.. Let's fix that, up., let's make that an attractive bike path and safe for you.

A

So you can come ride your bike., so let's do that transportation demand management before we invest eighteen and a half million dollars in a new parking garage.

A

It just makes sense.

A

There is money available to fix this garage without going into debt.

A

There's over one point: six million dollars in reversions- I don't know which of it is from which fun. you know,, maybe there's only one million, that's available right away.. We have other sources.

A

Going into debt, that's a serious commitment, that's committing funds.

A

That are then not available for other things.. Tif funds can be used to buy buses.

A

That's a better way to do it or a streetcar.

A

That is a much better investment for the benefit of more people for a longer term than a parking garage.

A

Everybody says people need parking, people need parking.

A

The human race needs a reduction of greenhouse gas emissions.

A

That's it period end of sentence.

A

Council, member ruff. did you have another comment?.

J

This is not necessarily an encouraging note,, but it helps put things in perspective.

J

And I don't think we should be, I don't think we should forget about.

J

What interstate 69 represents?.

J

Mr. bingham,, I believe, threw up some nun. put up some numbers earlier.

J

With the point of illustrating how.

J

Tremendously, almost absurdly expensive, it would be to make some of these transitions.

J

The costs of solarizing the cost of making the changes, the cost of transitioning to a truly sustainable.

J

System and one of the figures he put up was a 1.2 billion.. I think 1.3 billion.

J

I forget what they referred to exactly but, and it seems to a goering.

J

But when we stop and think that we have already spent between three and five billion dollars.

J

On this I-69 project, and by the time it's said and done, it will be five to ten billion dollars.

J

For is simply an expanded superhighway.

J

At the opportunity cost at the opportunity cost of doing of making this transition that we have to make and.

J

That not that phones, those phones, have been squandered, and it makes me physically ill to think about that.

J

That's all I wanted to say.. Thank you.

A

Any other second bites at the apple councilmember chopra,. I heard some crazy crap up here.

D

I'm not up for re-election., so.

D

Gonna get it straight., so two things. first of all,, I heard a comment by councilmember sandberg.

D

Imploring about where we're gonna get the money.

D

For better transport and yet. she's in favor of an 18 million dollar garage., I.

D

Mean,, that's where you get the money right like you, just used the money for something else. so.

D

Seems super obvious, a lot of people who text message me the same thing as soon as I thought I.

D

Want to say that the politically easy thing to do is to vote.. Yes, in.

D

This situation- and I think that most of my council members would agree that that's the easy thing to do is vote.. Yes,.

D

Because sometimes you have to make hard decisions and make the unpopular ones and make the decisions that you said that you would make. When you were running for office and.

D

I honestly think that this is up for.

D

Another vote closer to the election for a reason, and I hope that my council colleagues couldn't remember all the things that they.

D

Talked about when they ran for office.

D

Claimed that they wanted to do the right thing and they.

D

Just have some guts and don't know.

A

Any other second comments: councilmember, oh.

G

Just for clarity, a downtown shadow or bike trails or other measures to have multimodal transportation. all right,, this isn't mutually exclusive.. I mean we're talking about.

G

Replacing a garage doesn't mean that we're going to give up everything that we've been doing related to.

G

Sustainability and in fact again, I would argue that if you're going to lose businesses, businesses that are gonna employ hundreds of people and.

G

Move out to the county you're inducing sprawl,, which is.

G

Absolutely opposed to a sustainable model.

G

That's why we have compact urban form.

G

That's why I think the downtown is successful, because that's what we've been doing over the years and it's worked., I.

G

Mean, we have a success story that most cities, envy and.

G

So,, so it's amazing to me that it's coming down to this idea that either either your.

G

You know you, you have wanton disregard for?, the climate, you vote for this garage or.

G

Or your your, your very green, if you, if you don't, I think that.

G

It's it's a very confused issue.. I think, and it.

G

Anyway, but we brought it back because.

G

Not because of political considerations, actually we brought it back because.

G

The administration and leadership of the council have been talking about the major problem.

G

Which was the height and that we could resolve the height, because what was found in the engineering studies?.

G

Was that the convertibility of the floors was really a.

G

It was an unadvisable because we wouldn't have. We wouldn't use the convertibility if we didn't use it right away.

G

It would be useless and that broad bent down the height considerably., that's why this is back.

G

It's also back because of course, you know,, the downtown businesses are concerned about it and.

G

And this is important absolutely for for the community, so I think to it was justified and it was this. It was the consensus of the majority of the council.

G

That we should bring it back., it wasn't just my decision, but lastly, I wanted to say that some things we were talking about the.

G

Design, the design of this and susan sandburg put it right that you know, it's premature to talk about the design.

G

We have a lot of elements that we that we've negotiated.

G

But the administration has said we can have two appointments on the design. Committee., so will will move ahead.

G

With inclusion of the council and the design.

G

That's it thanks.

A

Councilmember boland three quick things: one.

E

There were enough votes to pass this in december. If the administration had just agreed to a 70-foot limit,, I don't know why they didn't.

E

Number two: the a final vote on this was zero. Seven two.

E

No one in deus voted for.

E

This proposal in december finally, I'll leave you all with some homework.

E

Let's assume a 2.5 mile.

E

Minimum length of a downtown, circulator loom a will tell you that it cost $70 an hour to run a bus. The average bus runs 10 miles an hour.

E

The meters run from 8 a.m. to 9 p.m.

E

To fund a bus that would run every 15 minutes in both directions: 2 buses on a circuit.

E

13 hours a day, every day of the year would cost three six hundred and sixty-five thousand dollars a year. Now.. We subsidize.

E

The garages right now with tif funds to the tune of six hundred thousand dollars.

E

Granted that money can't be used to operate a bus, we would have to get that revenue from parking,, but we can get that revenue from parking fees.

E

We just have to decide that we want to do it.

E

You can experiment with those figures,, but just remember: seventy dollars an hour to run a bus.

E

The average bus can run about ten miles an hour with stops and everything included.

E

You do the math and decide take a look at downtown, see where you'd like the bus to go.

E

The circulator to go, and then let's make it happen.. Thank you.

A

Any other final comments.

A

Well,, I would just say a couple things: we are not encouraging sprawl if we have a shuttle bus from the rca site or somewhere else, to downtown every 15 minutes as councilmember.

A

Valen said, and my major problem last december was not height.

A

So I doesn't matter to me how high it is or low it is, or whatever. okay,. So.

A

We've had now this tonight is just a straw poll., it's just a straw poll.

A

Next wednesday, we're gonna. Do it all again.

A

And have the actual vote., so just so you all know. all right,. Let's start on my left councillor sanford.

A

There's nothing easy or politically expedient about my yes vote.

I

Good at passing, yes, pass. no.. Yes,.

E

For three, yes, three, three two, three, three, two was the vote on the straw poll and that it concludes our business. For this evening,.

A

Thank you all for being here.. We will discuss this issue again next wednesday, starting at 6:30 at a regular session of council.