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A
If
there's
no
objection
we'll
begin
this
meeting,
this
is
a
meeting
of
the
committee
of
the
whole.
A
Of
bloomington
city
council
for
february
24th
2021.,
we
have
one
item
on
the
agenda.
A
Ordinance
2106
and
for
the
many
people
who
are
here.
A
A
A
A
A
A
Initial
research
into
the
issue,
so
I'd
like
to
limit
questions
from
council
members
to.
A
Like
to
limit
council
member
debate,
comment
to
three
minutes
and
any
rebuttals
to
three
minutes.
A
Per
person
is
there
anyone
who
objects
to
this
or
would
like
to
make
a
motion
of
that
effect.
A
Then
there'll
be
a
three
minute
period
for
them
to
respond
very
good,
councilmember
sandberg.
C
Yes,
I
don't
have
any
problem
at
all
with
council
limiting
our
time
to
one
minute.
C
C
C
And
I
think
that
might
be
unfair.
There
might
be
some
questions
that
we
will
need
to
be
unwrapped.
C
Will
take
longer
than
three
minutes,
so
I
mean
I
I
want
to
be
if
we
could
change
that.
A
I
wouldn't
mind
making
that
I'd.
Rather,
somebody
else
made
the
motion,
but
I
would
be.
A
C
Respond
in
addition,
okay,
well,
I
I
haven't.
We
haven't
made
the
motion
limit
time
for
everybody.
A
A
Responses
from
sponsors
or
staff
to
four
minutes
public
comment
to
three.
A
Minutes,
council
debate
to
three
minutes
and
council
rebuttals
to
three
minutes.
Can
I
get
a.
D
Point
of
clarification:
could
you
all
just
to
put
that
choice
or
that
decision
in
context.
D
D
A
That's
a
very
good
question
in
in
context
just
so
everyone
knows
this
is
the
first
time.
A
Questions
and
discussion,
public
comment
and
council
debate,
so
this
is
simply
the
first.
A
Go-Around
that
we're
doing
in
committee,
all
we
can
do
tonight
is
make
a
recommendation.
A
A
E
A
There,
unfortunately,
I
can't
do
the
timer
online
again
technical
problems
so
I'll
be
doing
it.
A
Offline
with
a
device
and
I'll
simply
speak
when
someone's
time
is
up
with
that,
we
are.
A
Ready
for
presentation
of
ordnance
2106,
I
see
councilmember
rosenberger,
flaherty
and
piedmont.
A
Casper
rosenberg
I'd
like
to
give
you
20
minutes
for
the
presentation.
Will
that
be
sufficient.
F
Okay,
great
I
I'm
gonna,
have
mr
lucas
share
his
screen
for
the
slide.
Thank
you.
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
A
You
have
plenty
of
time
to
spare
all
right
well
before
we
go
to
questions.
A
I'd
like
to
give
the
administration
an
opportunity
to
respond.
Mr
renaissance.
A
H
H
H
Thoughts
on
this
I'd
love
to
circle
back
to
that,
if
there's
time,
but
I
will
say.
H
H
We
could
have
prepared
appropriately
for
the
time
limitation,
I'll
jump
down.
I
apologize.
H
All
right
so
we'd
like
to
acknowledge
that
there
are
strong
feelings
around
this.
H
H
H
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
And
also
working
with
our
fire
departments
to
serve
as
warming
centers
during
inclement
weather.
I
I
A
housing
and
security
committee
was
formed
and
that's
being
led
by
the
directors
of
united.
I
Outreach
staff
from
the
agencies
working
with
people
experiencing
homelessness.
It
allows
them
to.
I
I
I
And
recreation
department
that
park
administrator,
paula
mcdevitt
will
elaborate
on
a
little
later.
I
J
J
J
J
J
J
J
J
J
J
J
J
We
partner
a
successful
partnership
is
with
centerstone
employment
program,
which
you
supported.
J
J
And
in
2020
after
four
years,
the
2020
program
had
35
employees
with
five
of
those
employees.
K
Free
corporation
counsel,
I
appreciate
the
time
to
speak
with
you
all.
This
ordinance
carries.
K
K
K
Part
two
is
broad,
and
I
will
talk
about
that.
A
little
later,
the
ordinance
provides
a
number
of.
K
K
K
Campers,
we
don't
know
what
all
reasonable
efforts
means.
That's
something
that
somebody.
K
K
That
campers
in
seminary
park
were
occasionally
using
camp
stoves
or
other
devices
with
flames.
K
Figure
that
out
there
could
be
things
related
to
public
health,
disability
access
inspections,.
K
K
As
the
sponsors
mentioned,
as
kate
mentioned,
the
indianapolis
ordinance
was
a
model
for
this.
K
K
K
K
C
Mr
chair,
if
I
may,
if
I
may
speak,
I
will
be
here
all
night
I'll
be
here
as
long
as.
L
Yeah,
I
I
just
want
to
to
mention
that
it's
normal
to
have
20
minutes
for
the
petitioner.
L
And
it
so
I
I
don't
think
it's
unreasonable
that
we
limit
the
presentation
of
the
sponsors.
L
D
D
B
K
Says
that
we
may
designate
areas
and
where
camps
may
be
allowed
as
long
as
they're
within
one.
K
Mile
of
social
services
and
prepared
meals,
I
do
want
to
point
out
in
response
to
counselor.
K
K
Parks,
so
this
would
require
us
to
choose
a
park
or
several
parks
from
among
all
of
the
city
parks.
K
Does
that
mean
if
the
city
does
designate
areas
in
in
parks
and
people
start
camping
outside.
K
For
managing
this,
it's
not
really
an
abstract
question,
because
there
have
been
outreach.
K
K
Community
to
come
to
bloomington
and
camp,
we
are
known
as
widely
as
a
very
progressive
community.
K
K
Be-
and
we
have
almost
no
way
to
figure
that
out
right
now.
In
summary,
we
believe
this
ordinance
is.
K
K
H
I
appreciate
the
opportunity,
I'm
sure,
that
this
is
on
this
important
issue.
H
H
H
H
H
H
H
H
H
H
H
H
H
H
H
H
As
presentations
from
staff
members,
calendar
anderson,
philippa,
guthrie
and
paul
mcdevitt.
A
And
it's
my
personal
opinion
that
this
issue
is
unlikely
to
be
decided
even
by
next
week.
But.
A
I'd
like
now
to
entertain
questions
from
members.
Let
me
suggest
here
that
a
question
with
an.
A
F
I
can
answer
so.
The
fiscal
impact
statement
is
to
I
think
at
the
second
reading
or
at
the
next.
F
Time
so
really
the
number
that
we
have
to
go
on
so
far
is
the
cost
that
was
incurred.
I
would
say.
F
F
F
M
M
M
And
and
dignity,
we
want
to
grant
folks
in
terms
of
allowance
of
restrooms,
you
know
or
or
other.
M
Hygienic
stations
or
that
sort
of
thing
trash
service,
for
instance,
so
there's
some
sort
of.
M
Not
insignificant,
but
but
not
not
outsized
financial
possibilities.
M
Depending
on
the
area,
so
that's
something
but
yeah
in
terms
of
affirmative
duties
that
you
can.
M
M
A
notice
to
to
a
few
people
and
the
storage
of
items
which
we
understand
to
have
cost
about.
M
M
And
and
math,
but
that's
our
brief
assessment,
mr
raleigh
have
any
follow-up
yeah
well,
perhaps.
B
Is
it
a
significant
amount,
just
some
kind
of
in
a
reflection.
B
On
that
administration,
you'll
have
four
minutes
to
respond.
I
can
give
you.
J
At
both
seminary
park
and
switch
yard
park-
and
we
us
estimate
again
the
amount
of
hours
that
we.
J
J
That
we,
we
our
staff
to
maintain
the
services
and
the
facilities
that
we
currently
have.
J
J
7
supervision,
the
cost
of
restrooms
to
build
a
brand
new
restroom
in
an
area
that
does
not.
J
J
How
many
restrooms
you
must
provide,
so
we
can
absolutely
dig
deeper,
but
I
can
assure
you
this.
J
Is
would
be
tremendous
staff,
cost
storage,
cost
contracted
services
cost
for
the
cleaning.
J
And
storage
of
items
that
that
are
picked
up
and
we
would
be
happy
to
provide
a
more
detailed.
J
But
it
is
far
and
above
the
costs
that
have
been
brought
up
this
evening.
And
if
I
may.
H
We
also
had
over
400
or
almost
400
calls
for
service
to
seminary
park
in
the
same
time,
frame.
H
Mentioned
so
there's
certainly
cost
associated
with
that.
That
was
police
calls.
K
C
That
might
be
our
deputy
mayor
mikronias
and
to
ask
how
much
time
did
you
have
to
spend.
C
Unintended
consequences
that
have
been
presented
just
to
give
me
an
overview
of
of
do
you
feel.
C
G
G
And
then
another
conversation
or
two
that
I've
had
with
them
respectively.
Since
then,
I
think.
G
Being
made
on
the
fiscal
side
they're
nowhere
near
what
we
would
estimate
and-
and
we
can't
even.
G
G
Avoid
those
freezing
temperatures,
so
it's
not
that
simple,
but
my
recollection
is
a
fairly
simple.
G
A
N
That
the
seminary
square
as
it
was
when
it
was
full
did
you
think
that
was
a
public
safety
issue.
H
There
is
anecdotal
evidence,
people
have
seen
a
variety
of
problematic
behaviors
in.
H
H
H
The
realm
of
the
county,
so
we've
we
had
so
you
know
the
county
expressed
some
concerns
about
the.
H
Certainly,
when
you
have
people
living
in
these
conditions,
without
appropriate
accommodations.
O
At
that
location,
keep
in
mind
that
switchyard
park
was
closed.
We
had.
O
Over
300
calls
there,
so
it
it
the
the
the
police
call
surrounding
the
places
where.
N
To
I
would
need
more
time
to
break
down
the
cost
of
each
call,
but
I
can
tell
you
that.
O
If
the
dro's
are
not
available,
so
that's,
but
that's
just
the
cost
of
funding
that
unit.
O
Homeless
people
staying
for
their
safety,
so
they
require
a
dual
response
and
the
police.
J
Just
from
our
parks
maintenance
perspective
that
we
have,
staff
that
are
in
those
is
seminary.
J
Park
in
switzer
park
and
oftentimes,
our
staff
are
approached,
and
our
are
yelled
at
are
harassed.
J
Trained
to
call
bpd
for
backup
if
they
are
in
a
situation
where
it
is,
is
more
that
is
escalated.
J
And
more
than
they
are
trained
to
handle,
but
that
is
the
responsibility
that
falls
on
both.
J
Our
park
maintenance
assigned
to
these
sites,
as
well
as
our
park
supervisors,
and
that's
it.
A
Four
minutes,
thank
you:
councilman
barriers,
gambellary
and
then
councilman,
piedmont,
smith,.
A
Well,
I
mean
members
are
directing
their
questions
to
the
person
to
whom
they
want.
A
D
Two
questions
I'm
going
to
try
and
fit
in
here.
There
are
any
number
of
reasons
I
appreciate.
D
D
D
To
characterize
this
in
my
head,
but
what
I'm
struck
by
as
I've
read
this
ordinance
a
bunch.
D
M
Know
miss
guthrie
kind
of
highlighted
some
of
her
concerns
around
language
in
some
contexts.
M
M
Reasonableness
standard
is
certainly
very
common
in
the
law,
though,
I
understand
how
it
also.
M
Makes
makes
one
feel
uncomfortable,
we
could
have
said,
for
instance,
a
minimum
of
you
know
five.
M
Communications
with
the
continuum
of
care
board,
you
know
over
a
two
week
period
to
check
off.
M
These
boxes,
in
terms
of
identifying
trans
available,
transitional
permanent
housing
options.
M
Homelessness
services
are
complicated
issues
and
I
think
inherently
you
know
there
will
be
some.
M
M
Way
from
the
administration,
I
think
a
lot
of
that
came
from
ms
guthrie
and
we've
worked
through.
M
In
that,
of
course,
so
the
word
collaborate
in
particular.
I
mean,
I
think,
just
suggests
some.
M
Some
two-way
communication:
you
know
going
on
on
what
the
continuum
of
care
board
is
and
does.
M
M
They're
already
doing
so,
we're
not
creating
new
duties
here
and
the
continuum
of
care.
M
Board
itself,
of
course,
has
heard
and
weighed
in
on
this
and
is
okay
with
with
that
language.
So.
M
I
certainly
take
the
point
that
there's,
inevitably
ambiguity
or
or
some
level
of
uncertainty
at.
M
Times
because
we're
dealing
with
uncertainty
in
the
situations
that
that
one
will
encounter
same.
M
Could
be
said
for
an
emergency
we've
done
our
best
to
be
more
detailed
than
our
colleagues.
M
M
M
Entertain
amendments
for
that
purpose,
and
I
would
encourage
folks
to
bring
those.
A
D
Ordinance,
260
2106..
I
think
that's
true
and
I
think,
as
many
many
people
have
acknowledged
this.
D
D
Which
you've
had
a
chance
to
consult
with
those
groups
as
well
in
crafting
the
legislation.
F
F
M
Association
we'd
been
in
touch
with
the
bedc,
but
hadn't
been
able
to
schedule
a
meeting.
M
And
then
the
sort
of
assumption
in
some
cases
that
this
ordinance
will
somehow
make
those
things.
M
Worse
and
I
think
maybe
we
have
some
disagreement
about
that-
you
know-
we've
heard
it
speculated.
M
Indianapolis
shows
that's
not
the
case,
so
so
the
short
answer
is:
we've
had
that
we've
actually.
M
At
your
suggestion
to
some
extent,
councilman
risk
and
blurry
we've
really
tried
to
to
reach.
M
And
others
as
possible,
I
think
one
takeaway
is
that
trying
to
prescribe
a
particular
area.
M
Or
set
of
areas
where,
where
we
legally
allow
people
to
sleep,
if
they
don't
have
their
options,.
M
Ordinance
used,
for
instance,
so
that
that
input
and
feedback
has
been
valuable.
Just
a
final
note,.
M
I
know
I
know
those
groups
and
those
folks
care
a
lot
about
our
unhoused
neighbors
too,
and
and.
M
To
lay
their
head
at
night,
I
feel
like
we
have
a
duty
to
find
another
answer
and
so
far.
A
L
The
staff
members
here
from
the
administration
and
thank
you
all
for
for
spending
the
evening.
L
With
us,
I
wanted
to
ask
this
essential
question:
where
can
people
experiencing.
G
G
G
G
G
G
L
So
can
I
you
have
a
follow-up
one
minute
yeah.
Well,
it's
the
same
question:
where
can
people.
G
A
M
And
believe
so
sure
I
I
wanted
to
follow
up
on
the
same
question
that
that
customer.
M
Have
anywhere
where
people
can
legally
sleep,
who
are
unable
to
go
to
a
shelter
at
night.
M
Who,
who
should
lead
that
process
and
and
what
should
be
done
differently
than
what
we've
already.
M
M
M
G
G
G
G
G
G
G
G
Thank
you
and
and
if
I
could
add,
I
concur
with
that
with
the
deputy
mayor,
but
I
would
also
say.
I
I
Going
I
mean,
I
know
that
you
all
talk
to
the
the
housing
network,
just
the
providers,
but
we.
I
I
I
A
Okay,
I'll
take
a
a
stab
at
a
question
or
two
travolin.
Mrs
catherine
still
had.
K
I
just
wanted
to
add
that
part
of
the
question
and
part
of
what
concerns
me
about
this.
K
K
Who
can't
sleep
in
one
of
the
available,
shelters
or
housing
is
a
much
smaller
number
than
all.
K
K
M
Yeah
astutely
noted
miss
guthrie.
I
think
this
this
and
we've
mentioned
a
few
times
that.
M
A
shelter's
full,
but
it's
also
true
that
in
some
cases
people
are
unwilling.
M
That's
not
uniform
across
the
board,
but
it
is
a
fact.
So
when
seminary
was
was
cleared
in
december.
M
Reasons
perhaps
related
to
past
trauma
or
mental
health.
You
know
unwell,
simply
unwilling
to.
M
Go
to
a
shelter
and
we
can't
compel
them
to
go.
What
are
your
thoughts
about
how
to
incorporate.
M
K
D
I
can't
I'm
sorry,
I
can't
answer
that
question
directly,
but
but
to
council
member
flaherty's.
I
Point
there
are
people
who
who
refuse
to
or
or
won't
go
to
shelters
for
any
number
of
reasons.
I
And
I
don't
know
that
the
city
has
the
expertise
to
care
for
the
people
that
the
shelters
can't.
I
Responsibility,
then,
that
that
sort
of
becomes
our
responsibility
to
make
sure
they
are
okay,.
I
That
they
are
safe,
that
you
know
they
have
whatever
they
need,
and
so
I
think.
I
I
Center,
stone
or
metals
I
mean
whoever
the
agency
is.
That's
our
reason
for
those
partnerships
to.
I
Allow
folks,
with
the
expertise,
to
give
people
then
what
they
need
to
get
so
that.
H
H
H
O
I
would
submit
to
you
also.
O
Shelter
they
want
to
stay
outside
and
the
problem
is,
is
the
ones
who
have
been
banned.
O
Lead
to
further
violence,
and
that's
why
we
have
so
many
calls
to
to
those
those
to
the
park.
A
Thanks
chief
further:
let's:
let's
go
to
the
final
first
round
question
all
right.
A
I'd
like
to
ask
ms
carmichael
in
the
mayor's
statement,
he
used
the
phrase
these
adjectives.
A
To
describe
shelter
you
you
quoted
him
as
saying
he
sought
safe
and
adequate
shelter.
A
I
mean,
I
understand
it's
a
reasonable.
You
know
way
to
think
about
it,
but
I
mean.
A
A
I
don't
understand
why
that's
not
a
part
of
it
does
shelter
mean
it's
actually
indoors.
H
H
That,
since
he
ran
for
office
six
years
ago,
talked
about
it
second
time
around
as
well
and
has.
H
Done
more
than
any
other
administration
has
before
him
to
make
that
available.
So
I
guess.
H
A
A
A
A
A
little
bit
more
detail
on
that
point
sure
I
can
provide
detail
up
to
a
point,
but
I
think.
J
J
J
J
J
They
come
on
site,
we're
training
them
and
then
they
get
a
full
work
work
day
in,
and
this
goes.
J
On
for
the
season,
the
questions
that
you're
asking
really
would
need
a
follow-up
from
center
stone.
J
Because
they
are
cases
that
they
they
manage.
So,
as
I
said
in
just
collecting
the
data,
how
many.
J
Employees
do
they
have
and
what
were
their
backgrounds?
That's
that's
as
much
information
as.
J
J
And
landscaping
tasks
that
we
bring
to
that
partnership
program.
But
we
can
happily.
J
A
We'll
now
go
to
a
second
round
of
questions.
Are
there
more
questions
from
members.
A
L
And
are
unable
to
go
to
a
shelter
for
whatever
reason.
H
H
And
that
it
needs
to
be
solved
in
a
really
collaborative
and
cooperative
way,
and
not
just.
H
H
H
H
H
H
L
L
And
I
know
that
the
the
city
has
been
you
know,
working
with
with
tina
peterson
ephrath
pfefferman.
L
I
Women's
winter
shelter,
the
emergency
shelter
that
beacon
put
up,
which,
which
was
a
low.
I
I
Friends,
place
that's
sleeping
another
49
or
50..
We
have
worked
with
them
to
get
that
going.
I
A
I
A
night,
and
so
so
those
are
the
things
that
we
are
doing
and
when
you
talk
about
the
short-term.
L
A
Council
member
smith
you'll
have
one
minute
I'd
like
to
ask
council
member
piedmont
smith.
L
I
can't
answer
that.
I
have
to
admit
that
I
was
only
there
once
so
I
really
I
have
a.
N
Follow-Up
question,
then,
I
would
like
to
ask
mr
wayson
to
give
us
an
idea
of
what
was
removed.
N
From
the
park
by
public
works,
first
of
all,
I'd
like
to
have
a
chance
to
weigh
in
this
is.
M
Is
that
it
was
more
safe
for
unhoused
neighbors
to
be
able
to
have
a
common
area.
M
M
M
M
M
Trash
service
would
have
helped
we
advocated
for
those
things.
But
yes,
of
course,
there
were.
N
N
So
that,
then
we
can
get
them
into
a
warm
dried
bed,
yeah
and-
and
I
find
that
what
we're
doing
now.
N
M
A
You
I'm
sorry,
council,
member
bowling
message
is
one
thing
in
response
to
council
member
clarity.
I
Is
that
they
are
able
to
locate
people?
So
I
understand
that
when
people
left
the
park.
A
L
A
I
have
one
if
nobody
else
does
console
percent
scandaloury
you'll
have
one.
D
And
is
a
success?
How
would
we
know,
and
if
this
ordinance
fate
is
a
failure.
D
How
would
we
know-
and
I
realize
that
the
answer
to
that
may
well
lie
somewhere
in
the
middle.
A
L
Rosenberger
on
that,
I
think
a
very
good
positive
outcome
in
the
short
term
would
be.
L
M
I
think
did
you
have
a
chance
to
answer
the
first
question.
I
can
do
both
if
that's
okay,
I.
M
Think
in
terms
of
success
well
long-term,
we
all
agree.
Everyone
here
knows
that
long-term
solutions.
M
And
more
housing,
stability
and
affordable
housing
and
permanent
supportive
housing
and.
M
M
M
I
think
failure
would
look
like
no
appreciable
improvement
in
in
our
point
in
time.
You
know.
M
This
ordinance
remains
in
effect,
but
I
think
failure
is
if
we
fail
collectively
as
a
community.
M
Funders,
it's
county.
It's
trustees!
If
we
fail
as
a
community
to
find
new
and
meaningful
solutions.
L
I
I
agree
with
council
member
flaherty.
I
think
that
a
failure
would
be
if
we
did
not
gradually.
L
30
40
years
this
is
not
a
new
problem,
so
you
know
we've
been
failing
for
a
long
time.
L
I
think
that
this
could
light
a
fire
under
our
butts
to
do
more
about
it.
I
see.
A
C
A
M
Martin,
so
the
ninth
circuit
case
sort
of
that
is
the
most
most
direct
guidance,
I'm
aware
of
from.
O
A
Ms
sandberg
does
that
satisfy
your
question?
Yes,
thank
you.
It's
about
the
criminalization
of
people.
C
Understood
people
who
are
public
places?
Yes,
thank
you.
N
You're
allowed
okay!
So
when
we're
talking
about
folks
that
don't
want
to
go
inside
to
a
shelter.
N
Who
were
down
at
seminary
square?
There
was,
after
all,
the
folks
were
offered
places
to
go.
N
F
Oh
thanks,
okay,
so
I'm
sorry
that
your
question
is
what
are
the
you're
just
confused
you've
heard.
N
F
F
F
Flaherty
weigh
in
on
that,
mr
flaherty.
I'm
sorry,
I
just
had
the
numbers
on
my
mind,
so
I
was
ready.
M
To
recall
them
directly
beacon
street
outreach
workers
from
beacon,
inc
counted
39
people
by
with.
M
Different
numbers
over
time,
reducing
as
time
went
on,
but
of
course,
at
that
point
we
had
the.
M
M
Workers
in
this
homelessness
services-
community
reverend
gilmore,
I
believe,
is
on
the.
M
Call
and
could
perhaps
weigh
in
on
that
during
public
comment.
There
was
an
estimated.
M
Additional
20
to
25
sleeping
in
other
areas
elsewhere
in
the
community
at
that
time,
so
60.
M
Plus
most
likely
sleeping
outdoor
unsheltered
at
a
point
in
january.
So
again
as
those
numbers.
M
M
Always
the
path
that
people
are
willing
to
take,
so
I
think,
as
numbers
reduced,
that's
not
a
very.
M
Accurate
snapshot
of
what
the
scope
of
the
problem
truly
is
or
how
many
people
are
truly
unwilling.
M
M
L
O
That,
mr
gilmore
did
they.
They
asked
people
that
we
actually
had
people
go
at
night
to
the.
O
Park
and
count
actual
people
in
tents
and
at
the
highest
point,
I
believe
it
was
14
and
at
the.
O
Lowest,
it
was
one,
and
so
there
were
many
more
tents
that
were
in
the
park
that
were
left
there.
H
H
Find
shelter
or
you
know
a
safe
place
to
be
so
it
wasn't
just
an
accident.
It
was
the.
H
A
Thank
you.
Next
question
was
from
councilman
piedmont,
smith
and
then
councilman
baralo.
A
O
I
think
I
can
go
ahead,
so
no
one
was
arrested.
Obviously
we
took
great.
O
O
People
to
the
stride
center,
and
so
there
was
there
was
no
one
was
arrested.
We
did
not
have
to.
K
I
I
wanted
to
say
too,
because
it
I
think
that
the
issue
came
up
really
with
the
boise
case.
K
Their
ban,
as
I
understand
it,
had
criminal
penalties.
If
you
didn't
leave.
K
Any
kind
of
regulation
that
imposes
a
criminal
penalty
like
that,
so
I
mean
my
understanding
from.
K
That
person,
but
normally
we
use
the
dros
and
de-escalate
and
do
all
of
that
kind
of
thing.
So.
L
Anyway,
sorry,
that's
a
comment:
did
you
have
a
follow-up
or
is
that
okay.
B
Thank
you,
chief
decoff.
Could
I
clarify
something
that
you
mentioned,
and
that
is.
B
A
And
clear:
okay,
so
you
were
revealing
numbers
that
were
really
quite
different
than
what.
B
Councilmember
flaherty
was
maintaining,
which
is
that
the
number
of
those
individuals
experiencing.
B
Homelessness
who
chose
to
stay
in
seminary
park?
It
was
much
smaller
than
what
was
claimed.
B
B
To
codify
opening
all
parks
to
24-hour
camping,
so
my
question
is
to
you:
I'm
just.
B
Wondering
in
terms
of
time,
because
we
know
that
people
were
initially,
there
were
a
lot
of
people.
B
As
social
service
agencies
tried
to
find
them,
shelter
did
that
number
diminish.
O
When,
when
we
counted
the
highest
number,
that
was
that
was
actually,
I
believe,
before
we
even
took.
O
Tried
to
stay
there
and
when
we
would
go
there
it
like
I
said
it
was.
It
was
one.
O
M
That
counts,
the
police,
dros
and
related
agencies
did
came
after
notice
was
given
to
clear.
M
M
A
M
Customer
piedmont
smith
asked
which
is
a
when
police
are
telling.
You
have
to
leave
a
space.
M
M
Must
leave
in
some
way
or
you
will
be
cleared
or
forced
to
leave.
I
think
we're
splitting.
M
Hairs
a
little
bit
on
criminalization,
and
maybe
it
might
be
true
that
we
that
we
don't.
M
Have
have
something
codifying
criminal
penalties,
but,
but
I
I
think
this
qualifies
in
most
in.
M
Most
descriptions
of
it-
and
I
guess
if
we
if
I
could
get
the
administration
to
clarify
a
little.
M
O
We,
when
we
cleared
the
park,
we
worked
very
hard
to
find
places
for
people
to
go.
O
As
I
stated
earlier,
one
of
the
first
night
we
cleared
the
park
in
december.
There
were.
O
People
that
went
to
wheeler
mission,
there
were
people
that
went
got
in
their
cars
and
left.
O
O
In
the
park,
I
think
there
were.
O
Three
or
four
total
and
again
there
were
services
that
were
that
were
offered.
We
we.
O
Made
sure
we
had
sheltering
availability
when
we
went
there
so
that
if
anyone
wanted.
O
O
Had
plenty
of
notice
that
this
was
gonna
happen,
but
again
it
was.
It
was
a
collaboration
of.
O
Several
service
providers
that
helped
try
to
get
shelter
for
people
we
we
presented
them
with.
M
M
M
Arrest
anyone,
but
that
to
me
implies
that
you
might
have
so.
I
guess
to
my
question
is:
are.
A
Of
our
zoning
ordinance
and
the
all
the
practical
inability
for
a
so-called.
A
Zoned
adult-oriented
businesses
out
of
the
city
and
that
that
was
obviated
by
higher
law.
A
We've
just
heard
mr
flaherty
and
mr
decoff
say
that
you
know
the
the
people
could.
K
O
I
would
follow
up
with
that
that
lots
of
people
call
the
police
every
day
for.
O
You
know
the
police
department
goes
through
de-escalation
training.
All
the
time,
perhaps
maybe.
O
They
need
okay,
but
I
mean
it
still.
Sort
of
is
the
the
case
that,
if
trespassing
is,
if,
if.
O
Get
arrested,
and
so
the
parks
are
a
little
bit
different
situation.
There
are,
there
are.
O
Established
hours
for
the
parks
and
being
in
a
park
after
hours
is
technically
trespassing,
which.
O
Could
be
enforced
with
a
misdemeanor
arrest,
so
what
you're
saying
in
essence,
is
that
desiree.
A
It's
not
legal
to
sleep
anywhere
outside
in
the
city,
but
de
facto.
A
The
law,
in
all
cases,
is
that
a
safe
way.
To
put
it,
that's
that's
what
you
said.
A
I
have
ordered
miss
carmichael
to
hand
up
to
respond.
Sorry.
H
We
work
in
a
a
greater
environment
with
more
people
more
partners
and
that
we're
not.
A
Well,
with
all
due
respect,
I
understand
your
the
the
extensive
response
that
you've
given
to.
A
Answered,
but
you
know
like
regardless
of
intent
or
the
the
no.
However
noble
the
objectives
of.
A
The
administration
are,
technically
speaking,
it
is
de
gere
illegal
for
anyone
to
sleep
outside.
A
Decoff
said
the
you
know,
every
by
by
necessity,
everyone
who's,
an
enforcement
uses,
discretion.
A
Addressing
tonight
all
right,
can
I
please
respond.
Can
I
add
something
maybe
another
way
to
look.
O
At
it
is
when
the
when
the
council
was
meeting
in
person,
there
was
a
there
would
be
a
police.
O
The
wishes
of
the
council
on
on
you
know,
following
the
rules
or
whatever.
Technically,
if
you.
O
A
Further
follow-up
questions:
if
not
it's
time
to
contact.
Oh
mr
smith,.
N
N
Since
you
have
quite
a
longitudinal
look
at
this
issue
and
how
administrations
have
to
function.
A
I
am
not
a
sponsor
this
ordinance
and
I
think
you're
getting
into
the
matter
of
debate.
A
N
Thank
you
all
right,
I
I
I
would
ask
people
to
just
hang
on
a
second
before
they
raise
their
hand.
A
They
they
raise
their
hands.
I
would
like
to
ask
members:
it
is
now
8
41.
A
Do
we
want
to
put
a
limit
on
how
much
time
we
devote
to
public
comment?
We
have
three
minute.