City of Bloomington, Indiana City Council, 30 Oct 2019

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From YouTube: Bloomington City Council, October 30, 2019

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Meeting Agenda: https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=5095

A

I'd like to call to order this bloomington common council special.

A

Session for the 30th of october 2019 will the clerk please call the roll.

B

Piedmon smith, yeah rallo, here boland simms, stir bomb sandburg, ruff yeah. Thank.

B

You thank you here. Is the agenda summation this.

A

Evening and you may find an agenda at the clerk's desk, if you would like one.

A

We have legislation for first reading, three, a time items.

A

Those are ordinance 1923 to amend a plane unit, development, pud district.

A

Ordinance and approve a preliminary plan regarding 1201 west allen, street hilltop.

A

Meadow llc. Petitioner second item is for first reading, as ordinance 1925 to amend.

A

Title aid of the bloomington municipal code entitled historic preservation and.

A

Protection to establish a historic district regarding the near west side.

A

Conservation district near west side, historic designation committee.

A

Petitioner third item for first reading is ordinance 1926 to amend the district.

A

Ordinance and approve a preliminary plan for a planned unit, development, pud.

A

Regarding 3201 east, more spike, first capital group petitioner, after that we.

A

Will have a will visit our council schedule before we continue.

A

Consideration of ordinance 1924 to repeal and to replace title 20 of the.

A

Bloomington municipal code entitled unified development ordinance. We are.

A

This evening, we're considering chapters 6, which is administration procedures and.

A

Chapter 7 definitions, then we will have consideration of written objections for.

A

Indiana code 36 7 for 606 c 3, and then we will have consideration of other.

A

Matters or actions related to the proposal ready to be raised at this.

A

Meeting before we recess so with that, let's proceed to legislation for first.

A

Reading, mr. president, I moved that ordinance 1923 be introduced in red by.

C

Title and synopsis only motion has been made to introduce ordinance 1923 by.

A

Title and synopsis only all in favor, say aye any opposed. Well. The clerk, please read ordinance 1923 to amend a planned unit.

B

Development district ordinance and approve a preliminary plan regarding.

B

1201 west allen street hilltop meadow llc petitioner. The synopsis is as.

B

Follows ordinance, 1923 would amend an existing pud and approve a pd district.

B

Ordinance and preliminary plan to allow a new multi-family residential.

B

Development. Thank you. I think that we need to consider a motion to referred.

A

This item to the land use committee, and is there a second okay? We have only one.

A

Cycle remaining, do we not to hear this, and so we will have to have an.

A

Expeditious hearing by the land use committee to return this item by.

A

December 4th is that correct mr. sherman, in the memo that's in front of you, many.

D

You probably have been able to read it, but usually this will be returned on.

D

December 4th, after two legislative cycles, we've wiped out our legislative.

D

Sleep cycles in november, so we're in new territory. Here if we were to go to the.

D

Last meeting of the year we would exceed the 90 days, so our next regular.

D

Opportunity is december 4, so I suggest that the motion include a return of a.

D

Report to the regular session on that date, so it would be wise to prepare any.

A

Reasonable conditions prior to that meeting, is it correct? It's a lot of work.

D

On the plate for the land use committee tomorrow I mean next week and they.

D

Should perhaps more time than they usually envision, maybe two hours or so.

A

The should allow two hours for that meeting.

D

Whatever would take to ordinance 1926 will also be something for us to.

C

Consider if you look there keep on there they're looking to withdraw that request.

C

So that's not that much work 19:25 is that coming to landy's.

C

Committee as well, I didn't think so, so we just had the one item. One item I.

C

Think it's okay, so we should we plan on two hours. Is the question? Is members in.

A

Land use committee of information, so in the memo on the first page it says.

E

According to the provision in the bloomington municipal code, the committee.

E

Of the whole and land use committee must meet on the second and fourth wednesday's of the month. So now what we're talking about a meeting on.

E

November 6, which is the first wednesday, so I'm a bit confused motion by a.

D

Majority of the council to schedule for next week overrides the the code you're.

D

Allowed to change your schedule with a majority vote. Okay, can I sorry mr. chair.

A

Can I ask what is our schedule again for the week of november 20th? Is there do.

C

What do we have to get to night set aside for the you do, which nights.

C

Tuesday and wednesday or when think you're right, I think it's.

D

Tuesday and wednesday, so there would be time to hear it on the 20th or the.

C

Thursday of that week, 21st 21st yeah and now we came to the 21st we may have to.

C

Just turn it back in one meeting. That's was what I thought you completed. We can.

C

Do that on the 6th, though so such hours, two hours on the next week, do we have.

C

Any what else is for next? There are a number of things coming up during.

D

Council schedule, and what I actually have suggest is that, right now you just.

D

Refer it to the two hours will be fine referred to the land use committee for.

D

Consideration next week and then under counsel schedule, I can tell you about.

D

What else is happening next week and you figure out the times and the start date.

D

The start: okay, okay, so the motive the motion is to refer to language committee.

C

And they'll hear it on november: 6th, yes and there's a second councilmember ruff.

B

Yes, chopra yeah, piedmont, smith. Yes, bravo.

B

Yes, rowland, yes simms. Yes, mr. baum.

F

Sandburg, yes, motion carries 9-0 mr. chair, I move that ordinance 1925, be.

C

Introduced and read by title and synopsis only there's there's a motion.

A

To introduce snakes to 25min titles now it's only all in favor, say aye.

A

He opposed with the clerk. Please read.

B

Ordinance 1925 to amend title 8 of the bloomington municipal code, entitled.

B

Historic preservation and protection to establish a historic district regarding.

B

The near west side conservation, district near west side, historic designation.

B

Committee petitioner, the synopsis is as follows: this ordinance amends the list.

B

Of designated historic districts located in the city of bloomington and set forth.

B

In chapter 8.20 of the municipal code, by establishing the near west side.

B

Conservation district in recommending this designation, the bloomington.

B

Historic preservation commission conducted a survey held public hearings.

B

And submitted a map and accompanying report to the council, the map describes.

B

The boundaries of the district classifies the total number of.

B

Properties within the district and is approved by the ordinance. The report.

B

Demonstrates how this district meets the necessary criteria, the conservation.

B

District is in general, less restrictive than a full historic district and.

B

Requires only the review of proposals to demolish remove buildings or construct.

B

New principal or accessory buildings at the end of.

B

Three years after adoption of this ordinance, this conservation district.

B

Will elevate into a full historic district unless, within 180 and 60 days,.

B

Before that date, a majority of the property owners provide the commission.

B

With written objections to the elevation, thank you chair. I moved that ordinance.

C

1926 be introduced and read by title and synopsis. Only it's been a motion to.

C

Introduce or new mr. chairman so helps us only point of order. Yes, if if we.

C

Would want to not introduce this legislation, we could vote no to have it.

C

Read into read by the clerk is that correct, that's correct and the.

C

Petitioner is asked to withdraw it. So yes, so let's have a roll call vote.

A

Thank you. Yes, the introduction of.

B

Councilmember chopra yeah, piedmont, smith, no rallo, no vohland, no simms, no stir.

B

Bomb sandburg, no ruff. Thank you. Thank you, coordinate snakes in.

A

26 fails. Excuse me point of order at zero. Eight eight zero. There are two.

D

Banners for your attention- one is a rather simple I'll start with that. One.

D

You were scheduled for a joint work session on friday. At this point, there's.

D

No legislation for you to consider you might have other reasons for meeting.

D

Otherwise, you can decide to cancel I'll leave that up to you.

A

So moved back all in favor, say aye aye any of those obsession it's cancelled.

A

Thank you. The other item is all about next week.

D

It's the first wednesday of the month, we've already scheduled for committee of.

D

The whole, via the annual schedule earlier this evening, you're you've.

D

Brought the land use committee and for that evening, as well, because we've wiped.

D

Away the rest of our regular sessions for the month, I'm suggesting we have one.

D

Too next week, because statute said you should have a regular meeting every.

D

Month- and this is the one meeting in november, where you're not taking up the.

D

You do so, I thought it it's a good time to take care of that obligation. So there.

D

Are three items I suggest this is a time to think about stuff. This is decide what.

D

Meetings you want and when they should start so there there's land use.

D

Committee there's a regular session you'll by the way where you should.

D

Actually hear the affordable living committee report and that'll be in your.

D

Packet this week, other than that, it's you know just meeting that obligation.

D

Under statute to meet and then there's the committee of the whole you've just.

D

Introduced a historic, designation ordinance that would need discussion and.

D

That would be a good time to do it. Well, I'd like to comment on it first, so I.

C

Want to suggest that it would be good to have the land use committee go first.

C

Because it's possible that the committee might dispose of the legislation and.

C

Then you will send it right back to council which would meet immediately.

C

After so, they could take action as early as room for six on it. I'm just saying.

C

It's possible if we voted it with no recommendation. Having said that, I have a.

C

Conflict, I can't be here till six, so if we started at 5:30, I wouldn't be.

C

Able to be there for the first half hour, which is fine. The rest of the committee.

C

Can hear it but I'm sort of at sea as to what to suggest.

C

Here I just didn't: have the counsel regular session and committee the whole.

C

Go first, but I defer to my colleagues on the ladies committee, so I don't know.

C

What to propose? Why would we start at 5:30? The idea is because we only have a.

A

Opportunity for a single hearing or for land use committee that may require up.

A

To two hours, and so I think, councilmember bolin was suggesting 5:30.

A

To 7:30 to be followed by the committee of the whole and regular session. But I.

G

Thought he also just said he couldn't be there at 5:30, yes, but he's motion yet.

C

That was, you know, that's what we've done in the past is we've had a 5:30 meeting.

C

To get the language committee out of the way as early as possible so that we can.

C

Get you know the meeting that requires all nine members to be there as early as.

C

Possible afterwards, that would help your schedule yeah. I would be fine and we.

H

Don't know how long the meeting might take those are. They got shot at.

C

Electively simple items to dispose that.

C

Mystery, I think land use committee second, would make sense yeah. Let's do.

H

That mission mr. chair just comes from ervil.

A

Yeah the only issue there would be that the council as a whole would would it.

C

Would be better if they limited the amount of time for that near with side meeting, so I mean, if we could say there will be one hour or an hour and a half.

C

So that the time that starts with the meetings would be predictable, that's the.

C

Only thing I would ask I would hate to have the the people for who are there.

C

For the land use committee have to wait an indeterminate amount of time, because.

C

They don't know when the council will be done with the regular session. So if the.

C

Council would be willing to say we'll meet at 6:30 and we'll be done by 8:00.

C

And then lanes could take that. Take it up at 8:00, I'd like to move that the.

C

Regular session occur as scheduled committee of the whole after that.

C

And that lanny's committee begin no earlier than 8 p.m. I need a second no.

D

Later than what people other than 8 p.m. I have a question, mr. sherman, do you I'm.

C

Sorry, no earlier than 8 p.m. my apology, no earlier than 8 p.m.

C

I'd like dear mr. sherman's opinion like west. Does that work? Yes, just a moment, I.

D

Guess one question no later or no earlier, then, if you want to have a.

D

Predictable time you won't know later then, well, I guess I don't have control.

C

Over the council's time, during its regular session, so I can't I mean the.

C

Council has to agree to that timing. You can do what's being proposed. It's it's.

D

New for us to set a time limit on a regular committee session or regular or.

D

Committee the whole, but you could do that if I'm just looking ahead. What's.

D

The workload I think that committed the regular session is pretty brief.

D

Councilmember sandburg: how much time do you think in the end serve um how much.

D

Time do you need on the report? Isn't the normal time for a committee report 20.

F

Minutes when we maybe less than that okay, so that's the substantive part of.

D

The night you may get some public comment, but so it's us expected to be a.

D

Short meeting hist the near west side conservation district, it involves.

D

Hundreds of properties there's a an active committee that has been working.

D

On this, for a while, they'll want to talk about it so but you've been through.

D

Conservation districts before they're, not interminable in terms of your time.

D

So councilman, versatile.

H

My question was we're getting used to starting at six. That would be an option.

H

But also, I would like to start when the committee is over and let people wait a.

H

Little bit they can do it. There they've waited long enough to get their hearing.

H

There's a motion on the table.

A

Smith, so have some clarity on the motion. Does it is it that the land use.

E

Committee will start an 8 or no earlier than eight. You want to clarify the.

A

Motion I'll restate it move that council meet at 6:30 as usual and phalanges.

C

Committee meet no earlier than 8 p.m. yes all right. I support that right, so I.

E

Have a second, my second, all right, okay, so that way, there's a time if we go.

C

Longer any more discussion call the question. Second, okay, they push something.

A

Called second on the motion: will the clerk please call the roll council.

B

Member piedmont? Smith; yes, briella! Yes rolling! Yes, finn! Yes,.

C

Mr. baum, yes, sandburg, yes, ruff, yes,.

A

Okay, the motion carries ages zero. Thank you anything else regarding schedule.

A

No thank you all right. Well now, move on to item five, which is a continuation of.

A

Consideration of ordinance 9 to 24 to repeal and replace title 20 of the.

A

Bloomington municipal code entitled unified development ordinance in this.

A

Evening we will hear introduction to proposed unified development, ordinance.

A

You do chapter 6 in chapter 7, mr. robertson, would you like to proceed with.

A

Chapter 6 good evening, my name is scott robinson, I'm the assistant director for.

I

Planning and transportation. Thank you for having me this evening, like last.

I

Time or preceding presentations I'll try to be brief. I do want to provide an.

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Opportunity to clarify or follow up some questions that were asked at the last.

I

Hearing I'll try to go through these quickly. There was a comment regarding.

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Definitions of annual meeting income and some affordability tiers used by hud.

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Again, staff recommends that we do not include these in the you do. There's.

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Clear federal programs and housing and urban development agency that has these.

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Definitions, we would prefer to reference those. There was some discussion about.

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Primary facade in the downtown district and design modifications we carry.

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Forward all the design standards from the current code, I will say that since.

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The last couple of years we've had an architect on retainer, that's been.

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Helpful to provide some additional feedback on designs with our guidelines.

I

And I think that's been helpful to incorporate more suitable design.

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Outcomes from those projects universal does universal design was mentioned as.

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Far as how it's been addressed in the unified development ordinance staff had.

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Prepared a an amendment during the plan commission.

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Process that was never discussed or introduced, so we do have an amendment.

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That we'd be happy to work with the council member on incorporating that one.

I

Of the concerns that we have is generally a lot of the universal design.

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Standards relate to building code, which we don't have any regulatory or review.

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Approval, but there are some options that we can consider led lighting for street.

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Lights, the city currently has been working with duke since 2016. They have.

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Offered led street lighting, the city owns some street lights since 2010. They.

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Have incorporated led lighting, I believe in all city-owned streetlights as part.

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Of the 2020 goal from public works, they hope to develop a program with duke to.

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Transition all the remaining streetlights to use led bulbs, floodplain.

I

Standards are confusing. Staff has worked with the state to comply with their.

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State standards, we have our local standards, they don't conflict with one.

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Another, but they it is confusing with then, when you read that section, we've.

I

Reached out to a council member or two about possible amendments to help.

I

Clarify that fence standards, this council approved fence standards not too.

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Long ago, those all carried forward, we haven't changed them. So if we, if.

I

There are concerns again, I think, that's something that council will have to.

I

Consider neighborhood meetings. Currently it's only required for razones we've.

I

Added additional neighborhood meetings for site plan approvals and zoning map.

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Changes staff has always recommend development petitioners to reach out to.

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Neighborhoods to have those meetings so again just want to clarify that.

I

Neighborhood meetings have been added or expanding that requirement downtown.

I

Stepped back standards for historic structures, there was a question about.

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Why contributing structures has been removed? That's really a policy question.

I

One of the things that's new in this ordinance is there's transition rules to.

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Adjacent neighborhoods and single-family structures that both the height and.

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Setback standards we'd have to reflect that change, so it.

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Could be a an additional impact to the downtown? Obviously we're trying to.

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Balance growth and where the growth happens generally, the downtown is an.

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Area that we've encouraged a lot of growth, so this was just a policy.

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Question that that's up for consideration firewall, there was a.

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Question about when firewalls would be required if multi units were being built.

I

We contacted monroe county building department again, that's something that.

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Would be required through the building department and there are specifications.

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Conditional use approvals, there was some questions about criteria and standards. I.

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Just have a snippet here in the current code up in the upper right, you kind of.

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See the process so anytime there's a conditional use, there's a process as far.

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As pre-meetings neighborhood meetings notice in hearings and then the two.

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Sections I cut out of the code are additional standards, so even if the.

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Conditional met all those the standards within the you do, there's additional.

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Criteria that the decision-making body, in this case it would be the board of.

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Zoning appeals and/or the hearing officer that they can consider and one.

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Of them is the comprehensive plan, so I did want to point out that there are additional criteria in the code that could be weighed and those.

I

Decision-Making bodies are not compelled to approve something if they meet all.

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The standards they can consider other criteria so with that I'm going to move.

I

On to chapter six again, this is the chapter are doing with minister robinson.

A

Could we just make sure that everyone's at peace with that those clarifications.

A

Are there any questions from council on the question clarifications.

A

Councilmember voland I've paused the timer first of all have all the slide.

C

Shows that you've presented been sent to the council. I believe all of them have.

I

Been that I can what I mean, has there been any change in in this slideshow.

C

From say, last week I mean: do we have a copy? This is this is a new presentation.

I

I've sent last week to council. This is a new presentation. Okay, so we'll get this.

C

After you, after tonight, that's correct and we plan to send some other.

I

Formation on housing data that we've been collecting as well. Okay, so I mean.

C

The I'm looking at the significant changes memo of the you do. Is it safe to.

C

Say that there have been some changes that are not in the memo, since this was.

C

Issued, can you restate the question please.

C

Well, I'm looking at the 13 page significant changes memo to the you do.

C

Adoption draft- and that was issued- I think, at the beginning of this process- a.

C

Month ago, is it safe to assume that there are some changes that are not in.

C

This memo that, for example, in what you just showed us, was a reaction to some.

C

Council comments from last time: wasn't it? The memo is still current. I mean the.

I

Code hasn't changed so that memo is accurate, I'm just reflecting responses.

I

To those questions and some of those might trigger changes to the code.

I

Depending on what councils? Okay? That that's all I just wanted to clarify that.

C

Thank you any further questions from council on.

A

The clarifications councilmember serve on table of review procedures, 200 603, oh.

H

It says for a conditional use permit there's the neighborhood meeting is not.

H

Checked in that table, and I would suggest that maybe it should be, and then.

H

Was all that you respond to that at first? Because that's not what you just.

H

I

So again we did expand neighborhood meetings, but it does not include.

I

Conditional uses so that, if that's a change that council wants to consider.

I

That's right and then the minor site plan reviewed is administrative. Only.

H

Which sounds like it makes sense, except when you're building a department.

H

Project that has sustainable development incentives. One of the incentives is to.

H

Waive the procedure of the major site plan, which involves neighborhood and and.

H

Review so it means that if you are doing a large project and you're getting those.

H

Incentives, you don't have to notify neighbors, it can be handled at the.

H

Administrative level- and this is one line that worries me if the project is.

H

Located adjacent councilmember, strong, I'm asking the question yes, but this.

A

Pertains to chapter six, and I think that we haven't we're going to go to chapter.

A

Six soon in this chapter, six is well. We heard were the the change. The comment.

C

From last week he hasn't presented, I was referring to questions on the.

A

Clarifications that were made it okay, I was right so, let's hold hold off on that.

A

Question wait for the presentation and if there are no other questions,.

A

Regarding those clarifications, then, let's proceed to chapter six.

A

Administration and procedure, mr. robinson, thank you so in excuse me.

I

Chapter six: this is just all the sections in chapter six.

I

Again, it's reorganizing a lot of the information that we have now one of the.

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Things I highlighted on the bottom is enforcement in penalties, one of the.

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Things I wanted to bring to your attention that, when we did our notification to all property owners about the update of the process, there's.

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A different requirement if we were to change the enforcement and or penalties.

I

So I just want to bring that to your attention that that section has not.

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Changed and again, if you were to change the fines and penalties that would.

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Trigger a different notification process so.

I

Again, these are the sections in the in the chapter: I'm not going to go over.

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Each of the sections I'm just going to try to highlight some of the changes in.

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Organization, the first sections is general. It really gives the purpose of.

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The chapter and what types of processes and permits our department reviews and.

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What approvals go through and which bodies review those it does talk about.

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Enforcement, it does identify all the deficient decision-making bodies which I.

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Listed here common council plan, commission board of zoning and hills.

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Staff planning and transportation department, hearing officer and plaque.

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Committee with those identifies who those agents, those groups- are their.

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Composition, their rules and etc. In this chapter, so again it just clarifies who's.

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Who those decision-making bodies are and what types of cases they hear some of.

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The rules of each of those bodies have been incorporated into noticing.

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Requirements and etc that are reflected in there other things that we've seen in.

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Chapter six, such as some itll requirements and those sorts of things.

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Are going to be pulled out of the you? Do it as part of an administrative manual.

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To help streamline chapter six so like types of files that somebody needs to.

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Apply for a permit, those sorts of things have been pulled out. This is a nice.

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Summary of chapter six. As far as types of procedures that are governed by the.

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You do so site plans or assigned permit, there's a whole range of those and then.

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If you read the table it identified, which section in chapter six, where you.

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Can find that process or procedure? It talks about public notice, about which.

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Ones would be required to have a published notice in the paper either a.

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Mailed notice to adjacent property owners or posted so again, different.

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Public notice requirements talks about priests and middle requirements, types of.

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Things that happen here at the city before it goes to the public hearings.

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And then the last column details are outlines types of decisions that are.

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Made in which governing body is making those decisions and there's a little.

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Code there about, are they reviewing and making a recommendation? Is it.

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Peel and then there's asterisks for public hearings. So that's just a real.

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Simple chart to cross-reference those different processes so one day, one of.

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The things that this does differently than the current you dido you do is it.

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Pulled out all the similarities through all our different processes and combined.

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Them into a common review procedures, so it removes all the redundancy that you.

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Might see in our current code again I mentioned that we remove some of the.

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Administrative stuff, as far as symbol, requirements and what-have-you.

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We incorporated public notice requirements based on which board and.

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Commission and their rules so, for example, for major approvals which go to.

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The plan commission or bca those are 21 day notice and for minor for hearing.

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Officer or platt committee, those are 10 days. There's criteria I mentioned for.

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Just three categories, general compliance conditional uses, which I just gave you.

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An example that, as well as zoning map, platts and pud requirements, so that just.

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Gives you criteria of how some decisions are made in addition to the standards in.

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So, outside of the general requirements, it gets into more specific standards, so.

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On the left-hand column, you see a whole list of different either procedures or.

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Permits that our department reviews, so each one of those spells out a section.

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Of the process and approvals that go through that generally anything that is.

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Required for public hearing goes to you know, board of zoning pills planned.

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Commission or common council, but then there's permits and things that staff do.

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For example, again I mentioned site sign permit or if a single-family were.

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Residents for a construction permit or an accessory structure, the offense those.

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Kind of things staff would review, so those would be things would be considered like a minor site plan review versus a major site.

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Plan review any kind of variance conditional use any types of those.

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Requests those are not held at a staff level. Those are required to go to one of.

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The decision-making bodies, so I just wanted to clarify that there is a new.

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Section that is being considered to allow for some flexibility and relief.

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Generally, these are our small variances, so sometimes there might be a setback of.

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One or two feet, or the lot width or depth might not be big enough. So what.

I

This does is allow for some small percentages to give some a little give.

I

And the exact numbers of some of the standards, so these could be done at.

I

Staff level again these: if you do the percentages, they don't equate to much.

I

But it does relieve the need to go to a variance process for a pretty small.

I

Minor variance, so that's essentially what this table outlines and again it.

I

Clearly outlines what the percentages are and which standards are being.

I

Targeted for these relief procedures.

I

And that's all that I have for chapter six. I tried to make it brief and again.

I

I'll be happy to answer your questions. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. robinson will.

A

Now go to council questions and I think I would like to go. First. The.

A

Councilmember stir bomb, so he can finish his question right. Sorry, I jumped the.

H

Gun on that, so I was just talking about the difference between site review, minor.

H

And site plan review major and the major you check all the boxes you publish you.

H

Mail, you have a pre submitted meeting you meet with neighbors, but if it's.

H

Minor, you don't do any of those things. There's a pre-sub middle meeting and.

H

It's entirely staff which is efficient, but I was pointing out that the the.

H

Exception is that when a developer is getting incentives to do either.

H

Affordability or green incentives, the traditional notification of residential.

H

Neighbors doesn't happen because it shifts from major site plan review to.

H

Minor- and it said the limit is 50. If the apartment has 50 units or fewer, it can.

H

Have this review this minor review, even though it's adjacent to single-family.

H

Neighborhood, so that that seems to me to be going overboard in helping make that.

H

Easier to develop at the expense of waiving some regulations, for that would.

H

That would be responsible to let the neighborhood know what's happening.

H

What's going in and they'll find out after the decision is made in the.

H

Foundations going in so I wondered what you say about that. There's a point of.

I

Clarification so in those instances, if it's adjacent to single-family, then it.

I

Would have to follow a major site plan and review and not a minor, because it's.

H

Adjacent to that's correct: well, that's the only the only instance.

I

That would be minors if, if it's, it is not adjacent to those single-family.

I

Districts and it does, it is below those thresholds that is seen as an incentive.

I

The process and incentive to encourage affordability, but those those larger.

I

Projects, regardless of their size, if they met that minimum threshold, if.

I

They're adjacent to single-family residential uses, they would have to.

I

Follow the major site plan, approval process and notification if the project.

H

Is located adjacent to our one, our four and contains more than 50 dwelling units.

H

Major site plan review will be required. That means, if it contains less than.

H

Fewer dwelling units there is a minor site plan review. That's what it says.

H

That's why I'm worried about it? Let's look: let's, let's review that later,.

H

Because I just it literally says that, could you could you mention the page.

A

That you're, referring to I'm on the significant changes memo page 10, thank.

H

You it's the top of that page. Okay, that's all! I have for the moment all.

A

Right, don't move we'll go on to come on.

A

We'll go to council murphy brown smith.

E

When you had on your slide, the different can making bodies or entities you left.

E

Out the floodplain administrator and I'm wondering who that is, for the city and.

E

What, if you could talk a little bit about that person's role, that would be.

E

Helpful yeah, I didn't include all the decision-making bodies, so we used to had.

I

Us we used to have a certified plan, floodplain manager in our departments.

I

And staff is currently working on achieving that certification, but I'm.

I

Going to defer to jackie to help me out on this question, so development services.

J

Manager, I'm the floodplain administrator, is traditionally the senior zoning.

J

Compliance planner and that so that position is currently held by elizabeth.

J

Carter, so she's only had that position for a couple of months, so she's gonna be in the process of becoming a certified floodplain administrator and what that.

J

My understanding is what that has come down to in the past. Is that is the.

J

Person who fills the role for the city when, when there are when they're.

J

Sign-Off is needed for letters of map, amendment or map change to the.

J

Floodplain that they would be submitting to the state, so I can find out more. We.

J

Can find out more information about what exactly that role fills for you for next.

J

Time, if that's okay, I'm not exactly sure what all the details I mean, she's.

J

Basically, the main contact that role in the past has been the main contact. We.

J

Don't do that much development in the floodplain currently, so it's kind of.

J

Always been a partial, secondary part of the position, not basically one of her.

J

Very main duties, because that things just don't come up that much about it.

J

But I can give you a more more rounded description of exactly what what she.

J

Does there after tonight and said all right, so it's mainly looking at the.

E

Flood plain maps or does would she also do any approvals.

E

For development in floodplains, I don't believe she signs off on any of the.

J

Approvals, I'd have to check to see how it was written in the new code, but.

J

Basically, the way that some items that were carried over from the previous code.

J

Would require either a conditional use approval or a variance approval to do.

J

Development in the floodplain and that would come from the board of zoning appeals or the hearing officer. Thank you. Come everyone yeah. I won sorry. I wanted.

C

Just sort of an illustration, a story that goes with the flexibility and.

C

Relief procedures, the flexibility and relief procedures, 206 2006 80- can you.

C

Give us an example of how this would benefit somebody just like. Maybe a.

C

Recent case where, if this law had been in place, it would have been useful, but.

I

Sure I'll give you my experience as a hearing officers generally hearing.

I

Officers hear cases that staff determines aren't very controversial so.

I

Usually it's fences and side yard setbacks generally. If you know jason.

I

Property owners are notified about that and when we have a hearing, if there is.

I

Concerned from residents and hearing officer will defer that up to the board.

I

Of zoning appeals so so that's kind of the vetting process and generally.

I

Oftentimes we're approving variances of a foot or two for a side, yard setback.

I

And oftentimes, the existing structure has already violated the setback and.

I

They're just doing a small addition to the house, and so it's kind of a you know.

I

What's probably doing much harm given the neighbors an opportunity, so the.

I

Administrative flexibility relief would alleviate that process of going to the.

I

Hearing officer, if it says well hey, if it's within a certain percentage, we can.

I

Administrate or really approve that that waiver or standard and again, if, if.

C

Someone has an issue with the way that staff has handled some other case like.

C

Say that there are a neighbor, they don't like the way it's happened.

C

That it's been managed by staff, to whom do they appeal to an officer or to bza.

C

Or to somebody else there are there appeals processes outlined in here on.

I

How to how to rectify those situations again, if you look at the percentages.

I

They're pretty small when you're looking at it- oh no, I don't mean, but for this.

C

I'm just in general, if, for any reason, that someone is dissatisfied with the.

C

Way that a given petition has been administered through staff is, are there.

C

Different appeals I mean like there's generally goes to the board of zoning.

I

Appeals yeah, that's what I thought. Okay! Thank you.

A

First-Round customer for rough general question is there? Is there anything in.

K

This chapter, this proposed draft that gives the plan commission any authority.

K

Or power or decision-making I mean I know most of this is a lot of is just.

K

Determined by state law state code, but is it do anything to give the planning.

K

Commission any kind of power decision-making the council could have.

K

If we so choose, whether that's historically always the way it's been in.

K

Bloomington or whether it's new to this document, it doesn't matter to me just- is.

K

There anything in there that is something that the council could by.

K

Choice do rather than the planning commission.

I

I'm not aware of that. I'd have to check again we're pretty much following our.

I

Practice that we're doing now, I'm not aware of anything and we're deferring to.

I

What state code enables do you have a specific instance that you're.

I

Considering no that's why I mentioned whether I'm not really concerned about.

K

Whether or not it's historically we've done it or not, whether it's just a.

K

Carryover from a previous draft or not, I just would like to know if there's anything in there, that the plan commission is doing that. The council.

K

Could be reserving to ourselves? That's all you know if someone could maybe.

K

Consider that looking at that sometime that'd be great.

K

Thanks further first-round questions, okay, so go to second round comes mr.

A

Bowman yeah just one this. This came up at the plant commission and I intend to.

H

Bring it back, it's demolition, delay permit and the point that I'm trying to.

H

Make is that a contributing structure is part of a historic set of buildings.

H

That's why it's contributing it's an important piece, but this says that if.

H

Only 50% of it is going to be demolished, it can be reviewed by staff and not go.

H

Through the historic commission and the criteria that staff is to use is whether.

H

It should be locally designated but standing alone, a contributing structure.

H

By its own definition, means that does not stand alone.

H

So the definition that does this building that is not does not stand.

H

Alone, if it doesn't stand alone, we'll tear it down. So it's it's bypassing the.

H

Consideration of the council, because the commission often thinks and usually lets.

H

These go anyway because they're there, it's not worth bringing to the council.

H

But if it's an important part of a district and it just gets demolished, 50%.

H

What it's going to do is lose its rating and the I mean I'm making that I'm.

H

Suggesting that criteria should be does it change from contributing to.

H

Non-Contributing through that demolition, and that is what needs to be reviewed if.

H

It's going to lose its historic status by that demolition. It should go through.

H

The historic commission one last time for a review and that's this way. It's.

H

Accidentally by passing, in order to make it more ease, easily done by staff, so.

H

It's it's a fine point, but we'll be talking about it later and I wondered what your your position on that was or your explanation of that. Okay, so.

J

Currently, as you know, probably better than most people here, the these are the.

J

Current standards- and that applies to contributing structures that only appear.

J

On the 14 or 15 and that survey- and that was a compromise- that this body came up.

J

With when they realized that all of those mid-century properties had been.

J

Added to the survey and people did not want their contributing structures going.

J

To the historic preservation commission, so that's why those were left to staffs.

J

Review that was before the new service. So now we have a new survey for 2018 and.

J

What the new you need, the proposed do-do included in the proposed you do is that.

J

All contributing will now be treated the same, we're under our current rules, 2001.

J

Contributing go to historic preservation or I'm sorry, the things that the staff.

J

Person can review are contributing structures that are having partial.

J

Demolition in single-family zoning districts and I think what you're saying.

J

Is that you would the issue is that was raised by staff of that commission and.

J

Our staff and legal is that, with the amendment that came forward at plan.

J

Commission is that that would be changing. He would be using different.

J

Criteria than the commission uses to make the determination, but from what I'm.

J

Hearing you say tonight, maybe you're saying he should be using different.

J

Criteria, but instead of then recommending to count, then he's.

J

Recommending it to go on to hpc, if he thinks I mean I'm just trying to get out.

J

What you want us to look at just change the criteria for when it should be.

H

Reviewed by staff and the criteria would be we'll it doesn't risk losing its.

H

Rating that should be the criteria and if it risks losing its rating, then it.

H

Should be okay, so we'll probably keep talking about it things we got to work at check. We should talk before I bring them forward.

A

Councilmember piedmont, samantha. Yes, I'd like to go back to a question brought up.

E

By councilmember stir bomb that I've been investigating, while other questions.

E

Are being answered so it was this minor site plan review question that there's.

E

Some concern and I have the same concern that that projects that are going that.

E

Are taking advantage of the affordable housing or sustainable development?.

E

Incentives would only go through minor site plan review without the.

E

Neighborhood meeting and without the the necessarily the planning commission.

E

Hearing- and it says here so this is on page 257 projects, the qualifier.

E

Affordable for affordable housing, incentives and or sustainable development incentives provided that, if located adjacent to one or more lots in.

E

An r1, r2, r3 or r4 district such project does not contain more than 50 dwelling.

E

Units so I guess I'm a little confused about and then when I did look at the.

E

Memo of the summary of changes, it did say it's adjacent to so the exception to.

E

Minor review is if the project is located adjacent to residential zoning.

E

And contains more than 50 dwelling units so from what mr. robinson was saying.

E

Earlier that should say or contains more than 50 dwelling units, so I mean I would.

E

Like there to be review, even if there's only twenty twelve units, if it's right.

E

Next door to a single-family district.

L

Order, director, planning and transportation.

L

I did find a discrepancy between the the highlighted 12th page memo of major.

L

Changes and then section 2004 development standards, 2004 110 in part.

L

Three under administration, where it says, projects that qualify for the affordable.

L

Housing incentive and/or the sustainable development incentive established in.

L

Section 2004 1 10 incentives shall have the site planned portion of the petition.

L

Processed as a minor rather than major site plan, except when the project is.

L

Adjacent to a lot in the r1 r2 r3 or our four zoning district, or contains more.

L

Than 50 dwelling units, so both of those criteria apply. So if it is next to a.

L

Residential area, it is reviewed as a major site plan and if it has more than.

L

50 dwelling units it is reviewed as a major site plan. That's great! So what.

E

Page was it that you were reading from in in my copy it's page 198, but.

L

Specifically, it's a twenty point: zero four point, one one: zero incentives and.

L

Then it's b general standards, okay and three administration and it's letter b.

L

Under administration, so in the in the section that talks about the incentives.

E

Yes, so if there are inconsistencies elsewhere in the in the full document,.

L

Then you know we need to find those and and explain those and change them, but.

L

But the intention was to have a major site plan review with if it's 50 units.

E

Or more or adjacent to recommend? Okay. Yes, thank you very much continuing with.

A

Questions for counts.

A

Comes for mr. trump, do you have any time remaining really? I just comment that.

H

That solves the problem. That's that's great! Thank you. Okay, any other questions.

A

Customer sam's, geolocation yeah, okay, see no other questions on chapter six, we'll.

A

Go to the public if you have a comments, please step to the podium state, your.

A

Name and sign in- and this is for chapter six good evening- members, the council, my.

M

Name is david temple. Forgive me if I've misunderstood something this evening, but.

M

I've been very interested to hear, as I understood or misunderstood, that.

M

Conditional use does not in fact require approval that the remains an element of.

M

Discretion before the approval of a conditional use, I personally find that.

M

Encouraging, I think, it's very important as council members der bomb was.

M

Emphasizing in another context that, when we're dealing with controversial uses.

M

Which have both benefits and potential harms that there be flexibility to.

M

Tailor the city's response to the particular factors I would even.

M

Encourage I'm now getting out of the purview slightly of tonight's agenda, but.

M

That, when you are considering such uses, you attach language that is neither 100%.

M

Nor 0 that gives some element of flexibility in them. The judgment of.

M

Whether a project should be approved, so I simply want to say I like what I'm.

M

Hearing about conditional uses, I encourage the city to consider the risks.

M

When a particular use is in question and then to put the petitioner through a.

M

Very thorough review process, including the neighbors, so that you could.

M

Whether this particular use has adverse impact on the community.

M

Thank you. Thank you for your comment.

N

Hi I'm john fiedler and I had a couple specific kind of questions about chapter.

N

Six specifically, I think it was 2006 nine, zero c four d: the 2006 . nine.

N

Zero c four d: it's in the.

N

Non-Conforming uses and it's going through the lawful non-conforming uses.

N

Basically grandfathering in in things, and what struck me is that talking about.

N

An abandonment of a non-conforming use and the the one I'm thinking.

N

Specifically, which, which I care most about, is owner occupancy requirements. We.

N

Still have some grandfathered in it appears that it's a landlord would only.

N

Have to file paperwork once right after this you do passes and then they would.

N

Be grandfathered in forever and I was wondering why that would be a periodic.

N

Registration requirement to keep them up to date on that non-conforming use and.

N

Then the other question I had was in enforcement again the the main concern.

N

Being or occupancy requirements, the planning and transportation department.

N

The director, I believe, is specifically called out as the enforcement officer.

N

And it's it's unclear if the enforcement is the planning department going around.

N

And interviewing, if it's purely complaint, driven what criteria are used.

N

To determine violations you know, obviously some violations are very.

N

Obvious but occupancy requirements have been very influx. You know you go out an.

N

Interview and they're like oh no, we only have three people here. There's five cars.

N

Parked at the yard every single night, so it's unclear how that's a three-person.

N

Residence and the one one interesting idea from the city of west lafayette was.

N

The landlords and the tenants had to submit a signed affidavit so a legally.

N

Binding document every year saying who lived in in each dwelling, that was.

N

Rented out- and so this this occurred, the tenants know not to lie saying we have.

N

Three, because, if you're not on a signed affidavit, you would not have all of the.

N

Rights as a tenant and landlords obviously only want the people that have.

N

Signed the lease in there too. So if I guess I'm proposing that we add some.

N

Sort of stronger enforcement language, specifically for the occupancy this.

N

Comes into play in the downtown core neighborhood this next to university, where there's a lot of student rentals- and we can all cite examples of over.

N

Occupied student runnels. Thank you. Thank you for your comment. Further.

A

Comment from the public on chapter six.

A

All right, seeing none well back to council for questions follow-up.

A

Questions- and we probably have a few that involved yeah- I wanted to take up.

C

Some of those questions, so if meantime, I myself is the.

C

Affidavit I mean I've seen the affidavit that west lafayette uses where they're.

C

Both that landlord of the tenants sign it is that a question for a different.

C

Part of code, or is that a question that touches upon title 20, that that is a.

I

Question that it's not part of title 20, that would be through hand in they're.

I

Registered rental program- and that's something that hand is considered okay.

C

And then what was the other question he asked. I wrote down.

C

Well, no, no, it was the dream is hand. The enforcement officer, for I mean where it.

C

Said that the director of planning was the enforcement officer for establishing.

C

Whether something is five when it should be three: where is that encode, where the.

C

Where what duties does the director of planning have to enforce any part of.

C

Code, if any like directly off to look at the enforcement sections, but generally.

I

There are grandfathered properties with the five you know, unrelated adults and.

I

Three, so that would regulate under the zoning ordinance but again generally, the.

I

Rental registered rental on that occupancy is a different question. I.

I

Guess the question to enforcement largely we operate on a complaint basis.

I

But oftentimes one complaint triggers a proactive approach to others. So when I.

I

Was in that position when I first started working here at the city, one of.

I

The changes that happen with the zoning code was to put screening around.

I

Dumpsters and so often that started out with a complaint and then once one.

I

Business got a you know, a warning, hey you need to screen your dumpster, then.

I

They would name, you know five other their neighbors, and so that's generally.

I

How the process works? We do get a lot of enquiries about complaints through you.

I

Reports and other means, but that's generally how enforcement ok happens. The.

C

Last question I have, it was sort of came up because of what I heard in public.

C

Comment, but is there a possibility that if a property owner intentionally leaves.

C

Property vacant that that that could be regulated, cantus.

C

Thing as a vacancy tax, with the part where the planning department managed.

C

That, maybe that's a question. Mr. rooker I don't know, can can the city.

C

Contemplate a vacancy tax to prevent somebody from purposely leaving property.

C

Vacant because they're just in it for the investment quality and even though.

C

They may affect the neighborhood and is that a planning question or or a.

C

Different or a legal question, michael rooker city attorney for the city of.

O

Bloomington, if you might recall the home rule statute, one of the powers, that's.

O

Specifically withheld from localities is the power to levy a tax. Now that turns.

O

Out to be legally sometimes a very interesting question when something is.

O

Dumped into the tax bucket or the fee bucket fees are permissible as long as.

O

They're reasonably related, so that's a really interesting question. One I've not.

O

Thought about before or researched so unfortunately I have to tell you. I don't.

O

Know if we were to contemplate it, would it be in title 20 or would it go.

C

Somewhere else, that is also a fascinating question and I'm not certain.

O

What the appropriate, but I'll leave it at that. Thank you, councilmember. Perhaps a point of information may be legal. Can answer.

F

This, but when this has come up before with hand on the issue of compliance.

F

With the three-person occupancy and when you have three people supposedly on the.

F

Lease but yet you've got five or six cars out and I'm very familiar with this.

F

These are the houses that are across the street from me, my understanding from.

F

Talking to hand staff is that if you go in and ask whether you ask the landlord.

F

Or you ask the tenants themselves, who's on the lease and they'll say well only.

F

These three people, but there are maybe two other people that are living there.

F

As roommates friends, significant others, if those other people have leases.

F

Elsewhere they are technically considered guests and there's nothing.

F

That can be done, so I you know, I don't know we're signing an affidavit. Would.

F

Get at issue, if that is the way enforcement has.

F

Been stymied, if you will, by the over occupancy any anything from legal or has.

F

Anything changed in the hand apartments since last term, when I was talking to.

F

Lisa abbott about these kinds of things. You know it's difficult to get into.

O

Specifics of individual cases like that when it comes to over occupancy or title.

O

16 violations potentially so at you know, I really don't I hate to say I can't I.

O

Don't want to talk specifically about how that would work. We'd want to look on.

O

A case-by-case basis, whether or not we had enough information based on.

O

Information gathered by hand, inspector or planning a transportation or from a.

O

Third party that we felt we had an over occupancy that justified sending a.

O

Notice violation somebody there just appear to be loopholes, which is adding.

F

To all the frustration from the residents about the over occupancy.

F

Issues that, in spite of our best efforts to regulate that and keep that under.

F

Control there are ways around that and you still.

F

Have the overabundance of cars and very limited space? Well, like I said we just.

O

Have to try to evaluate on a case-by-case basis, whether or not we.

O

Think we have enough information to identify a violation. Thank you, smith, to.

E

Follow up on mr. couple's comment is: is there some flexibility in considering a.

E

Conditional use, I mean it's, it's conditional and we saw in your.

E

Presentation, mr. robinson, some of the criteria that can be used when.

E

Considering conditional use, but can you speak a little bit about the flexibility.

E

I thought that you had to be pretty strict about saying. Well, we can allow it.

E

Because it meets this standard or this criteria, so so the bza is kind of.

I

Quasi-Judicial and they have to make their ruling based on the standard, so I.

I

Think the the question that was posed was, if a if a request met all the the.

I

Standards they're not asking for any changes in the standards they have to.

I

Approve it, there are criteria that the bza can weigh on those impacts to the.

I

Community consistency with the comprehensive plan doesn't have adequate.

I

Services, you know there's several that are listed, that they can consider as part of that decision-making process. You know I.

I

Believe that a lot of the when we were talking about chapter 3, there was some.

I

Use specific standards, I believe you know when we worked with clarion and.

I

Updating the code, we try to identify as many standards to help make sure that.

I

We've addressed as many concerns as possible and then anything that's.

I

Remaining kind of falls into the conditional use category to help make.

I

Sure, there's that additional layer for consideration but yeah and to follow up.

O

On that point, I think this is that's a worthy point: councilmember piedmont,.

O

Smith, because there is always a concern that on appeal, there could be an.

O

Accusation that the board of zoning appeals or another body is acting in an.

O

Arbitrary and capricious way and not treating like situations alike, so that's.

O

Something we're very cognizant of and developing these standards and then advising our bodies as well. So there is, there is a certain amount of flexibility.

E

Because one of the criteria are, does it meet the comp plan and, as we've seen, the.

E

Comp plan is a long and complicated document that occasionally has internal.

E

Discrepancies, so in that respect, would you say there's a bit of.

E

Flexibility even legally, I think we could say that. But again I think that.

O

Our I think that every effort is made to be consistent within those bounds. Does.

E

The bca also consider precedent if there's a similar case. Oh there was a.

E

Case two years ago, where this came up and would they consider what the.

E

Previous decision was or they're not a precedent making body.

O

Okay, thank you further questions just to clarify if there were, if, if the petition.

A

Met all the criteria, planning criteria.

A

Could the bca realistically deny the petition again, I think if there was.

I

Documentation on what the concerns were and in issues raised by that process,.

I

They could I mean again, I think what we're looking for is consistency and so.

I

Generally, based on the unique circumstance of that request, that's.

I

Something that staff would look at and again that's something that the board of.

I

Zoning appeals would would consider okay, I see no they're quiet. Do you have a.

A

Question comes mr. boehm. Yes, we will no thanks. In fact, we will now have comments.

A

Would you have a comment I do? I do so before ad use were made a conditional.

H

Use no one had ad use assay, so says accessory dwelling units. There are two.

H

Right now going on in my neighborhood and I've participated in the hearing at.

H

The bca for one of them and I've gone through a hearing officer for the other.

H

One which I am building so council decided that ad use would be legal. They.

H

Were there there are conditional use their legal with conditions, so the first.

H

One went through the bca right here. There was a neighbor who said this is.

H

Going to affect my parking is going to affect my tree, but the bca said this is.

H

A conditioned use, this is acceptable use, we are going to say you can go ahead and.

H

Build it and the other one which I'm doing.

H

They came in and they either paid a hundred or two hundred dollars. Last time.

H

I was corrected, but it was maybe it was two hundred dollars. They had a short.

H

Meeting- and they said they were, they sent out mail to everyone that that was.

H

Addressed by the by the planning department, and then we went to a hearing.

H

Officer for about 20 minutes and it's approved so these are approved, uses and.

H

When I talked to tim miller, he said, council makes the decision that these.

H

Are uses that are acceptable in the neighborhoods.

H

So once council makes this decision that duplexes are triplexes are acceptable in.

H

The neighborhoods on occasion, the conditional use could be turned turned.

H

Down, I think 90% approaching 90 percent of all conditional uses in the last.

H

Three or four years have been approved, so it's essentially by right, unless they.

H

Can prove harm to an adjacent property and that's a very specific criteria and.

H

The if, if someone thinks parking is harm, but the board of zoning appeals, members.

H

Don't think parking is harm and that the community good and the comprehensive.

H

Plan says that you should limit barking, that's their decision, so the one out of.

H

Ten chance in this 90 percent, one out of ten chance where you might be able to.

H

Show there's a negative impact is fairly slim and these are all, but by right.

H

That's the point, so that's my comment. Thank you. We're on council comment on.

A

Chapter six: anyone else look care to make a comment.

A

Councilman roland yeah, this relentless attack on anything that might alter.

C

Single-Family housing is a mystery to me. I don't understand why councillor esther.

C

Bomb is so fixated on it, the you know, cities grow and change, city of grows and.

C

Chiton they've grown grown and changed more slowly since we implemented code. I.

C

Mean there wasn't code to stop megaplex us from being built in garden hill.

C

And in old north east and in elm heights, where I live, the places that I represent.

C

Of course, those people in those neighborhoods deserve representation too.

C

But you know they're: some of them have committed to live in properties like.

C

This but I mean you know, I I've always taken the concerns of property owners.

C

Seriously, if anything we'd like to be looking for ways to expand ownership of buildings that are not single-family use but again.

C

I keep thinking you know, how dramatic will be the change if we allow.

C

Conditional use, I feel, like there's a paranoia among people in these core.

C

Neighborhoods that have been coming out at length that somehow the result of.

C

Allowing even an inch is that developers will take a mile, but nothing in the new.

C

Code or in the administrative aspects of chapter six are going to allow a small.

C

Wood to be built in the near west side, it's just not going to happen. There is.

C

Talk of building plexus ever these are two and three unit buildings that are.

C

The size of a regular house- it's I mean all of a sudden, I'm just sort of struck.

C

By the sheer you know, the sheer amount of force being brought by neighbors.

C

Concerned about they're either there their properties.

C

Are more likely the prospect that not be living next door to students that I even.

C

More now than ever, don't understand. I just it's. It's mystifying to me why this.

C

Much effort is being put into even allowing conditional uses here. I don't.

C

Think that this guy is falling like come first or mom, believes, and I don't.

C

Understand why we're spending so much time worrying about these things? Thank.

C

You further comment: counselor children. I.

G

Think it's worth commenting and considering the idea of conditional use.

G

Versus by right by thinking about how neighbors react with one another, and you.

G

Know this whole idea of having a conditional use where neighbors can.

G

Voice their opinions and and voice their concerns about their neighbors use of.

G

Their own property for something that, if it were conditional, the city is saying.

G

Should be used in that way might not be for the best of the community, and I just.

G

Think it's something to consider. I'm just bringing up as a thought, because.

G

Oftentimes these types of hearings and these types of discussions become.

G

Contentious and bring neighbors down, I have a neighbor who's taking over from.

G

There, their parents don't live in their home anymore and they're. The kids are.

G

Going to go into the home and they're remodeling, and I noticed that they did a.

G

They tore the whole deck down and started to build it up, and I thought oh.

G

Don't they need a permit for that and started sort of stomping my feet? A.

G

Little bit and I talked to the contractor and he said no, no, I don't.

G

Think so, and I said well, I think maybe, and he said you know what these people.

G

Are gonna, be your neighbors real soon I said yeah you're right.

G

And I don't have a problem with the way that it ended up. The deck looks nice so.

G

Even if they needed to have a permit, it's not bothering me it's not making my.

G

Property any less valuable, it's not creating any problems for me for them to.

G

Have a deck that they enjoy and and so I just it's something to consider.

G

As far as how we live together in community, it's my suggestion that.

G

Perhaps this whole conditional use versus buy right mike mate community, a.

G

Little worse, rather than better, thank you for the further comment. Councilman.

A

Pete munoz smith yeah. Just briefly, I do see that it's problematic to have.

E

Conditional uses I mean, as a community we should decide. Is this use appropriate.

E

Or is this use not appropriate? Conditional use should really be left to.

E

Things that are just unusual use to begin with that we didn't think of. I.

E

Think conditional use makes it hard on property owners because they don't know.

E

That there's more steps to jump through. I again I'm commenting sort of on a.

E

Philosophical level that you know it's do, it is divisive it's it brings out.

E

Neighbors, if you know neighbor a doesn't like neighbor b, because their dog barks.

E

All night, then neighbor b wants a conditional use. Well, neighbor a is gonna.

E

Be there and say: no: this guy is such a pain and it's I don't want to support.

E

Whatever conditional use they're after I mean it's the human nature right, so I.

E

Think, just as a matter of good governance, it's best to really limit the.

E

Conditional use process and just say as a community: this is what we want and.

E

This is what we don't want those locations, so I'm gonna be. I need.

E

To reread this chapters, been it's been a couple months since I've read it so I'll.

E

Be looking at that, but I think just as a principle of governance conditional use.

E

Is not a great idea, thank you for the comment for surround I'll, make a comment.

A

That what councilmember strong stated, the expectation that conditional use is.

A

Allowed, I mean the likelihood of it being granted, is very high and that.

A

Conforms to my experience and I'll leave it there counsel. Mr. baum did you have.

A

An accessory dwelling units and I've long supported them and I've supported.

H

Them as a conditional use and that's because when they go through, they go.

H

Through a public review process- and they get done correctly- they don't just pop.

H

Up and somebody didn't go through the process and oh, I thought it was by right.

H

You know, and and these are not contentious generally and if somebody.

H

Doesn't like their neighbor, the bca does not care. This is a legal body and the.

H

Bca says you know, don't put it so close to your neighbor that you're breaking.

H

The rule: well, I didn't look very carefully, so I put it two feet. Instead,.

H

Of five you know now I'm done and too bad, but at the bca they're gonna know.

H

You've drawn it two feet too close, you know we have to fix it, it's it has to.

H

Cover this much of a lot, so the conditional use is approving, but it's.

H

Approving with conditions and with good review, so you occasionally get a.

H

Neighborhood is annoying, who comes out and makes trouble, but the bca is legal.

H

Body and if they turn something down without legal findings, they would not be.

H

On the bca very long, and- and they just do not do that.

H

I've been through a lot of that and they don't. I don't always agree with their.

H

Decisions but they're mainly tougher and stricter than you imagine.

H

And they are saying this is basically essentially by right. So council needs to.

H

Make the same decision? Are we going to have plexus in the neighborhoods or are.

H

We, not you know, conditional, is better than non.

H

Conditional just because that's a better review process, but it does not. It is.

H

Saying as council, we approve these period thanks.

A

Brown second round council comments on chapter six of the you do yeah. Well, I.

C

Mean I think the dispute around eighty use was, should they be conditional or by.

C

Right, I think that the remedy of going to the bca is still there, whether it's.

C

Conditional or not, if somebody sees that their neighbor is building an adu and.

C

They're doing it improperly, I mean they still have the ability to go to planning.

C

And check to see, is it be done right and if somehow it's two feet close to the.

C

Property line set of five feet, then you know they can they. The bca should still.

C

Here at thinkin's they should still be able to lobby a protest. You know the the.

C

That issue is really more, should a to use be allowed by right in the first.

C

Place, I don't know that the conditional you.

C

Know the conditionality of it would make a difference with respect to you know.

C

Whether it's being done properly so it doesn't really address some of the.

C

Reasons why ad use were brought up in the first place. I mean this is we're.

C

Talking about an administrative chapter here, but I would think that that administrative option is still available to anybody to questions whether or not.

C

Something was built properly, whether something's in violation or not. Maybe.

C

There's a situation where, if it's already built that it won't get be.

C

Required to be torn down and move, but I would think that that will be caught at the staff level. So I don't know I I think we're talking about two.

C

Different issues here and as far as the administrative one goes, you know it.

C

Doesn't depend on the condition allottee of a given thing to check on the.

C

Copernican project. Thank you, councilmember sims, it's important to not.

P

Let the the different designations morph into where it's an unrecognizable glob.

P

Weither have no approval conditional approval or by right three separate.

P

Things: okay, so, and I'm not saying this, I don't want to get into an argument with.

P

Anyone, but to continually say well that is essentially a conditional use, is.

P

Essentially, by right, you see how that starts to get to where there's no.

P

Distinction there and that's what's confusing, I think they are very, very.

P

Separate much like we, this body cannot legislate morality.

P

We can't legislate whether you're going to have a good, neighbor or not know.

P

Where they're going to be upset with you about you, taking advantage of legal.

P

Options to modify their property, what we need to be worried about or considering.

P

Is the criteria that said is that criteria met on that request for.

P

Approval, and is that a criteria that the hearing officer and the planning and the.

P

Bca are following, I think those are it now. There are some other things on. Yes,.

P

I'm concerned about parking, you know, we've got a parking challenge in this.

P

Town and if we build in my neighborhood for ad use, what does that mean for on.

P

Street parking and what are the criteria for parking on the property which is.

P

Limited anyway, because it's on an existing property and you're putting a.

P

Smaller unit on it, so you see those are all the things, but we've set that.

P

Criteria, I think so there's a bunch of personal.

P

Things we could say: well, we don't like this. My neighbor don't like that, but.

P

What does the law and the criteria based on the conditional approval say and if.

P

They meet that then I think we've done our job.

P

Also, as long as there is an ability for their neighbors to participate in.

P

Remonstrate and go through the hearing process, but no one should be able to.

P

Stop me from doing something I'm legal legally allowed to do when I meet the.

P

Criteria because you don't want it and that's where I'll leave that. Thank you.

A

Counsel comment: counselor. Mr. baum, I.

A

Believe, member sherman is that correct. We have only two rounds of questions.

A

Regardless of whether he has time remaining breath only two rounds of.

A

Questions. Okay, all right. I comment this is common later.

H

C

Two bites of the apple mr. chair, okay, so I have a second.

A

Comment just to say that I just want to emphasize that a conditional use the.

A

Likelihood of approval is very high, I don't know if it's 90%, I don't think I.

A

Can say a simple number: it's probably some function, but it would be quite.

A

Unlikely it more often than not that, certainly that it would be allowed.

A

Unless there are very, unless harm could be proved and some you know, demonstrable.

A

Way so if there are any other second-round comments, no okay, we will.

A

Now, move on to chapter six, seven, our denis.

L

Playing transportation director is it possible for me to add a comment about.

L

Conditional use, or should I wait until you have a 30 minutes to make the.

C

Presentation in chapter 7, this would be a good opportunity for you to use it. If.

L

You don't need that much time. I just wanted to mention that it's a little.

L

Misleading to think about conditional use being the same, almost the same as by.

L

Right because there is a high percentage of cases that go before the bza with a.

L

Conditional use that are approved- miss scanlon, mentioned this last week that we.

L

Believe that the main reason for that is because our staff is meeting with.

L

Petitioners and potential petitioners daily and if it's something that is, is.

L

Just not going to be considered, we let them know, and so usually the cases that.

L

Come forward, we think that they have merit, and so we encourage them to come.

L

Forward to the bca so that that interface, that we have with the public.

L

Daily adds to the increased percentage of conditional uses that are approved.

L

That's all thank you. Before we go on to chapter 7, I we were incorrect kind of.

A

Councilmember stir bomb had four minutes. There is no stipulation about number of.

A

Comments, he simply has four minutes per councilmember. So did he have time.

A

Remaining counts: merv owen bites the apple use at least two minutes in each.

C

One we all used at least two minutes in our budget, so we will go on to chapter 7.

A

Mr. robinson, thank you this. This will be brief. I do want to follow up on.

I

Director porter's comments just for some clarification: the perception that even.

I

By right, isn't a rubber-stamp staff reviews requests daily and.

I

Oftentimes give direction to people that they're not meeting the standards and it.

I

Often ends up leading to nothing, so I don't think it's a fair characterization.

I

To assume that, just because it makes it to the hearing that it's a 90 percent.

I

Approval there are many instances that a sign permit, pool permit or what-have-you.

I

Doesn't meet the standards so just that clarity just needs to be specified so.

I

Chapter 7, I really don't have a lot to say this is a chapter with words in.

I

Phrases used throughout the you. Do there's a reason why they're in there so.

I

That we have the definition chapter 1 does provide guidance on interpretation.

I

So if there's something in there, how does that interpretation made? You want.

I

To reference back to chapter 1, there are words and phrases that are not in.

I

Chapter 7, these are terminology, that's widely accepted and used. I mentioned hud.

I

And some affordability standards those would be instances that would fall under.

I

That category I did highlight a few words that we've looked at very closely.

I

Throughout this process, student housing, the fraternity, sorority definition of.

I

Family and methadone and opioid facilities, so those are things that have.

I

Kind of been through the wringer several times looked at very closely throughout.

I

The process and then I'm just going to close with my next slide, to identify.

I

Some unfinished business by staff that we hope council members will sponsor.

I

Some amendments- I just have a list of some amendments that we're looking at. I.

I

Have been working with a couple council members, but we do want to bring a new.

I

Definition of fraternity and sorority to counsel for your consideration, there's.

I

Been discussion about cooperative housing, we have a fix for that again.

I

We'd like to include that which would be in chapter 3, there's some just minor.

I

Clarifications on you know what setbacks and including a designation for building.

I

Clarification on upper floor setbacks and fronts. The the street, the building height diagram in chapter seven, could be.

I

Clarified street light standards there's a section in the downtown we want to.

I

Move that to the subdivision section: that's where it makes sense identified.

I

New plantings and evergreen species there's a requirement for certain.

I

Evergreen species- and we just want to clarify which species in the plant lists.

I

Are actually evergreens change of use triggers currently there's a trigger.

I

From I believe, from residential to mixed-use, we just want to add another.

I

Trigger so when there's a change of use, when does site compliance come in into.

I

Play a better idea on how to deal with corner lots and which is the primary.

I

Street again I mentioned a little bit about the variance process with existing.

I

Setbacks again we're trying to minimize or clarify that with existing structures.

I

We'd like to maintain those setbacks, meinhard clarification on fire hydrants.

I

And giving the ability to the fire chief to locate where those should go use.

I

Variance you know, since it's on halloween eve, I'd like to equate this to.

I

Kind of a harry potter theme on you know we're trying to get the scar removed. We.

I

This is a process we have right now. It's very questionable clarion's advised us.

I

That we don't use it, it's not a practice used throughout the country. It is highly.

I

Debatable it's, it was removed throughout the process, but it still remains in the.

I

Variance section, so we want to clean that up and remove the use, variance.

I

Process, it's not a conditional use and then universal design. Again I mentioned.

I

At the beginning, there's a desire to include some universal design and we do.

I

Have a draft amendment we're considering the important things with that one is to.

I

Think about the triggers for that compliance, we're looking at either the.

I

Number of lots in subdivision or the number of units and then a percentage of.

I

Those units that would have to comply with a menu of universal design.

I

Standards such as doorway widths steps in those sorts of things, so I just.

I

Wanted to bring that to your attention and I'd be happy to answer questions for.

I

Chapter 7, thank you. Yes, I have a request. There were four definitions that mr.

E

Robinson had up there, while the words were up there. Yes, could I request that.

E

He actually talk about all four of those, rather than I mean they had 30 minutes.

E

And they took five minutes and rather than taking up our question time, I think.

A

That's a that's a good idea, because if there's without objection, because I have.

A

Questions related to those, and maybe we could clarify from the onset. So mr.

A

Robinson could could you go into a little detail on those four defined.

A

Words or faces, I will try to do my best. I don't have the definitions, memorized.

I

I'll try to highlight some of the issues around those definitions, so student.

I

Housing, as you know, is a new definition that was introduced to deal with the.

I

Student housing issues that were dealing with one of the things that we've been.

I

Coordinating with with student housing has been related to indiana university.

I

And the definition of sorority and fraternity, so those have an interplay.

I

With one another, as well as cooperative housing, if you read the definition of.

I

Fraternity and sorority, a cooperative housing arrangement could be interpreted.

I

As so, that's things that we've looked at in those definitions on how to deal with.

I

That again, working with indiana university with fraternity and sorority.

I

We're trying to coordinate with them on concerns that they've raised about.

I

Unsanctioned or sanctioned fraternities and sororities, as you know, we've had.

I

Some enforcement cases of some- you know off-campus fraternities, so we're.

I

Coordinating with that definition to family we're not changing the three.

I

Person rule but plan commission wanted to expand.

I

Kind of the modern concept of what a family is to be more inclusive and then.

I

The opioid epidemic, you know this is a issue that we've been dealing with and.

I

We needed to make sure that those definitions were appropriate to address.

I

That so those are our new or looking at those requirements on those standards.

I

And one of the key things: the difference between methadone and opioid, methadone.

I

Facilities are highly regulated by the state. That's something that we don't.

I

Have regulate regulatory control over because of the distribution or.

I

Administration of methadone, opioid treatment facilities use other things so.

I

They're not as highly regulated, so there's that's. Why there's a differentiation between the two as I understand so, I think I've characterized.

I

That, without getting into the the weeds or the specifics of those definitions,.

I

But that's why I highlighted and then tried to identify some of the issues.

I

Again be happy to answer in some questions. Did that help at least.

I

Identify why the I appointed those out I wanted more weeds, but you know we have.

I

Lots of time, nobody quote me on that. I don't want the plural to be left. I will.

I

I will say that we've had pretty thorough legal review that some of these.

I

Things we do have to be very cognizant of fair housing regulations and other.

I

Legal standards that we have to be cognizant of so there's been a lot of.

I

Coordination with lawyers involved, and so I just want to say, there's been a lot.

I

Of effort behind the scene to make sure that these definitions, as well as others.

I

Have kind of passed the legal test? Thank you mr. robinson, so we'll proceed now to.

A

Questions and customer vote.

C

I'd like to dig into this a little bit. First of all, we talked about fraternity.

C

And sorority do they relate to co housing? In other words, isn't it a kind.

C

Of specialty cohousing, if a fraternity, if it's a group of iu students that are.

C

Unsynched, and can they co how's that that's the.

I

Challenge with the definition now so, the co housing group could be defined as a.

I

Fraternity or sorority, and so that's one of the except if they're not enrolled at.

C

Iu right and then who oversees that mr. rooker has answers, I think yeah, I'm.

O

Gonna jump in here I don't know, I don't know how well any of you know this, but.

O

There's currently an ongoing case that we're involved in regarding the you do.

O

The expiring, you do s definition of fraternity and sorority and it's related.

O

To how that the one on that water yeah, I know it's related to a case on feet. Fraternity on feline, look so part of the.

O

The challenge here is to try to create a definition that doesn't raise the.

O

Concerns that have been brought up in that litigation, but still provides a.

O

Certain modicum of oversight to the university for these bodies, because the.

O

Challenges that are presented by unsanctioned or unrecognized greek.

O

Organizations tend to be considerable compared to those where there is some.

O

Level of university oversight, but I mean you know we did have the issue of the.

C

Would-Be fraternity on atwater, where they took up two houses and as far as I.

C

Know it's still in litigation that they still haven't complied with, whatever.

C

Existing rules we have, but that's a that's, a different enforcement action.

O

That was a an area that was a we had a boarding house there and aanchal.

O

Non-Conforming use at that site, not a fraternity or sorority. It wasn't in the.

O

Institutional district, where a fraternity or sorority use is permitted, so that's a different enforcement, so by sort of creating this definition, aren't.

C

We effectively expanding the boundaries of the campus or specifically, where I.

C

You has jurisdiction over what's essentially a planning, a city planning.

C

Issue, if there's a fraternity, that's not connected to the campus. I mean. Is this.

C

Defined by the university owning the land, underneath it no again, fraternities.

O

And sororities are only uses in certain districts. I don't have.

O

Remember I don't have memorized which districts there you can have a.

O

Fraternity or sorority use in I don't know if somebody can look that up, but.

O

And in those zoning districts where they're, not you know, permitted as by.

O

Right or conditional uses you couldn't put one there. Okay. Well I mean just just.

C

For what it's worth like, I'm still concerned about whether that definition.

C

Might actually extend a jurisdictional courtesy to iu? That's not countless.

C

That's not returned, complement, really, well-liked, we'll bring it up later. Thank.

C

You yes, for the benefit of the public. I would like mr. robinson to go into.

E

Some more detail as to what has changed in the definition of family from our.

E

Previous, you do and what has remained the same, because I think there's a lot.

E

Of confusion and we do use family a lot. You know when we talk about homes and.

E

Who's allowed to live there. The best excellent explanation is: if you look on.

I

Plan commission site there was an amendment that that dealt with the.

I

Changes I apologize, I don't have the definition may memorized and what.

I

Changed it just expanded, maybe from what am or the current you do has a more.

I

Traditional concept of what a family is versus a more modern-day concept of.

I

Family, that's the only thing that it expanded in the definition of family, so.

I

A more traditional interpretation would be a husband and a wife and a close.

I

Relative and the current you do expanded expands that definition of family that.

I

Would allow adopted children and grandparents and other relatives so to.

I

Speak so it's it's it that's what it expanded, but there's a amendment that I.

I

Can afford to the council that highlights the difference in that sorry.

I

I don't have that memorized have processed a lot of changes throughout.

I

This process, so I understand I will use my comment time to just do that. There's.

E

A psa announcement, thank you. Councilmember sandberg,.

F

Initiative family being challenged because of the fact that you know the.

F

Nuclear family that we, once you know was, was fairly much the norm of a mom and a.

F

Dad and kids and 2.5 dogs and cats is being challenged by the economic.

F

Realities, sometimes people have to pool their resources. As you know, friends and.

F

Then we're kind of getting into the the other issue that we're having with the.

F

Definition of cooperative housing and cohousing I mean is that, is it just kind.

F

Of mixing mingling with you know the changing norms of people wanting to live.

F

Together to share economic resources, yeah, that's that's a good point and I.

I

Would agree that that's addressing the realities of today's world, you know I do.

I

There is a expansion for seniors over to the age of 55 that you know allows more.

I

Of them to cohabitate so they're, not you know, capped by the three-person rule. So.

I

So again, I think it's recognizing some of the housing and economic realities of.

I

How people choose to live and who their family members are? Thank you, customers.

A

Are both on the same subject on changes to the definition of family.

H

From amendment 18 number, six was in all other zoning districts, meaning not in.

H

Single-Family zoning districts family also includes a group of no more than.

H

Five adults and they're dependent children living together as a single.

H

Housekeeping unit in a dwelling unit, where, where does that apply like it.

H

Doesn't apply in single family so where would five adults and their dependent.

H

Children be living together in a dwelling unit. Now I'm just trying to.

H

Picture what that means.

I

I'll have to look at the specifics of that. But again I think it's you have to.

I

Go back to the use table kind of would counsel mike richter said about.

I

Institutional uses those are only allowed into so when you're looking at.

I

Multifamily units, in which districts those are when you start playing into.

I

The definition of student housing that has an impact on that as well so I'd.

I

Have to look at chapter together, I don't know what it means either. Thanks for the.

A

Questions for chapter seven, it's the first round.

A

Okay, second round come summer. Vohland. Could I have this slide back up? Okay, so.

C

Can you go to the next slide? There was I I mean. I know that you don't have the.

C

Definitions in front of you, but how is cooperative housing is the only.

C

Difference between cooperative housing and a fraternity that the the.

C

Occupational status of the people living in is one of the things that we.

I

Considered was either a definition or a youth specific standard again because of.

I

The definitions of I'm sorry, I'm having trouble hearing again because of the.

I

Definitions of cooperative housing and ownership, that kind of complicates.

I

Things because you start getting into regulating ownership and that's.

I

Something we want to avoid with a cooperative housing and fraternities, so.

I

Chapter three we'll be looking at the use specific guideline on cooperative.

I

Housing and not a definition per se, mr. greer looked, you have something to.

C

Contribute or I thought you came up to answer the question. Okay, maybe mr.

C

Walker has something too so so again, it's been a balancing act.

I

Between the definition and where to put cooperative housing- and we believe we.

I

Have a good fix to deal with that, as opposed to relying on the use, variance.

I

Process which is currently how we've been dealing with the cooperative.

I

Housing is going through a use, variance process. You know I do what scott is.

O

Saying I think the answer is no, that's not the only difference between those.

O

Two, those two types of housing. I think I think you'll see that when the.

O

Amendments come forward, presuming that they're sponsored but cooperative housing is a form of ownership, we're typically owned shares and a corporation.

O

That owns a particular property, a fraternity or sorority, is an entity.

O

That's affiliated with an institution of higher learning, so in theory well, no. I.

O

Think, debt, by definition right a fraternity or sorority. That's not.

O

Affiliated with an institution of higher learning is something altogether different, so well, that's why I was asking the question about co housing, but.

C

I think that gives me to the bigger question which is: is there no? Are there.

C

No qualms the administration about the I mean student is a noun that determines.

C

Occupation to have a separate zoning type for student housing does that not.

C

Give you any qualms at all, I mean to me: it says that they they're not. There have.

C

A different status they're separate from the rest of the community they're, not part of the community, that we're housing them in a separate different way. I don't.

O

Think that I'm the appropriate person to answer that question so so again, I think.

I

I would disagree with that assumption. First of all, they're not a protected.

I

Class second of all, student housing is committed in virtually every district.

I

That what we're distinguishing is the large student developments and that's.

I

The differentiation between you know what I would call student housing, which.

I

Is allowed anywhere, it doesn't matter what type of rental unit or ownership.

I

Unit it it is, but when you are defined as a student housing that gets into the.

I

Much larger complexes that we're looking at and that has a proposed zoning.

I

District, the student housing is permitted in many areas throughout the.

I

Community, so no thank you, council, member piedmont, smith.

A

Yes, I just noticed that there's a definition here called dwelling comma.

E

Short-Term rental, the rental van entire dwelling unit for monetary consideration.

E

For a period of time less than 30 consecutive days, but I don't find that.

E

Anywhere else in the you do- and I I suppose it's referring to air b&b type.

E

Arrangements but I don't see that on the use table or anywhere else, can you.

E

Explain why that's in there what it means, so that is in there, so that we.

Q

Make it clear that that is a defined use and you're correct is not a permitted.

Q

Use anywhere- and that is very, very deliberate, so a short-term rental in by.

Q

This definition is where you are leasing the entire house for a prolonged period.

Q

Of time, so the county deals with this as a vacation, rental houses. You know you.

Q

Rent a house for a weekend, but this is different than an air b&b, where you're.

Q

Just renting a bedroom or a few bedrooms in a house, this is a vacation home where.

Q

You rent it for a very lengthy period of time, so we have a definition so that.

Q

It's not an oversight, you know it's just you know simply. I would say you know.

Q

Think of a slaughter house, you know we have a definite, we don't have a definition, but it's not a permitted use. So you could say well you're, excluding.

Q

It from your list of permitted uses, so you have to make an interpretation.

Q

Whether or not this is allowed, no, this was very purposefully, excluded and so.

Q

There's a definition that deals with that: okay, so the definition is there so.

E

That people can't wrangle their way in and say well, it's not defined. So that's.

E

Actually, there's under something else, exactly okay and then what about actual.

E

Like airbnb s, that are part of somebody's home that somebody lives.

E

There and also ransomware, so we are not regulating those any differently than.

Q

Current meaning they're still allowed they're not differentiated as separate.

Q

Land use is still a single-family dwelling unit. Okay, thank you.

A

Council member ruff.

K

The definition, the general definition in development is very much points.

K

Specifically to the idea of sort of physical development of land or.

K

Development of projects and in all of the contexts in the document, except for.

K

Where first, a floodplain, so is there no place in the document no need to to.

K

Differentiate sort of more community development or a sort of qualitative.

K

Development, the comp plan, we made an effort to really clearly differentiate.

K

Or make sure the development in terms of physical growth of community was value.

K

Neutral and as separate from what we might think of as developing opportunity.

K

In the potential of the community in other ways, so there's no reason--.

K

Anywhere in the actual, you do for us to talk about defining that other kind of.

K

Development sort of more community development. Yes, so this is more of a.

Q

Regulatory effort, so when we use language in the code that deals with no.

Q

Development is allowed within a karst conservation easement. This is what we're.

Q

Talking about you can't place a sidewalk, you can't, you know, do x, y & z, so this is.

Q

More of a regulatory approach, not a general hey, we encourage development in.

Q

This court, in this corridor of the area or this court or the city but more of.

Q

You know what is development is it? Placement of a sidewalk is a.

Q

Construction of a building, so so that when we use the word development, we've.

Q

Got something to point to that says: no you're you're constructing a sidewalk.

Q

That's development: it's not allowed within this karst conservation, easement.

Q

Or something of that effect, thank you that clarify for me. I was just.

K

You know I I can't claim to have gone over every single. You know sentence in.

K

The entire you do- and I didn't know whether there might be somewhere or some.

K

Reference or some concept included in there that we might want to clarify that.

K

If there's another meaning for development in this document, but if.

K

There's nothing in there like we're. First to that, then that's fine!

K

That's why I want to confirm. Thank you. Customers, turbo yeah. The air b&b is.

H

Interesting because I think the state precludes us from regulating them, isn't.

H

That isn't that, right? What about occupancy when people rent a house for a.

H

Weekend to twelve partiers, who are down for the football game, is that that's.

H

Going beyond occupancy regulations for a single-family neighborhood is it just do.

H

We have no control over that because I knew someone who actually moved from my.

H

Neighborhood, because that was pretty much of a regular occurrence. So when.

H

They're over occupying a property on the weekend as a rental, can we enforce that.

H

Simply as occupancy, so that's so that's two different approaches to occupancy.

Q

Occupancy from the definition of family that we were just talking about deals.

Q

With how many people live there, how many people are on a lease you're talking.

Q

About how many people are physically in a building at one time? Well, you rent to.

H

Them, instead of for a year, you're renting to them for weekends, you're, renting to 12 people, but you're only running to them for two days can we.

H

Regulate them that as a rental or do we just go, we can't do anything. Sorry.

Q

Yeah, so so your your question there of you know they ran. They ran in out for a.

Q

Weekend you know, that's that's in that that fuzzy gray area of you know airbnb.

Q

Versus our definition, we were just talking about of a short-term rental, so.

Q

The occupancy for the zoning district is that you're gonna say how many people.

Q

Can live there on a lease? You know, there's there's nothing that we've got.

Q

Right now, unless I'm missing something so is, is there an amendment that we.

H

Could do that would address that problem? I would like to make one if we have it.

H

Maybe we can talk together about what would be the language, because it's.

H

Clearly violating the occupancy of a neighborhood, and sometimes it's it's.

H

Rented as a party house for the weekend by other groups, yeah sorry, I believe.

I

It's probably best to leave that outside of the you know. I don't think that's.

I

Something that's within the you do. I didn't want to check with legal staff.

I

And whatnot but again you did, you are correct and the state did limit our.

I

Ability to regulate short-term rentals, you know, you know we don't regulate.

I

Occupants per se and single-family houses, if they're all family, so I'm just.

I

Sitting here, thinking of a you know, scenario of invite friends over or my.

I

Daughter has a slumber party: are they going to violate occupancy? I think we.

I

Just got to be careful on how we do that we do have tools to deal with nuisance.

I

And noise- and that's probably the best tool that we have right now- that I think.

I

That's probably worth a conversation to consider something above that. Thank you.

A

Council member valen yeah, I think, concerts iram, brings up an interesting.

C

Point that at least we have two different sort of scopes of occupancy.

C

That may confuse people, there's the you know, fire occupancy and then there's the.

C

Long-Term occupancy, I wonder if there's what I mean, would staff see a problem.

C

With coming up with sort of a more targeted phrase to distinguish those two.

C

Things so that we it's easier to talk about those issues when they come up.

C

Even if we can't regulate air b&b occupancy, do you see what I'm, what I'm.

C

Asking I think we can certainly look into it. Yes, okay,.

C

Thank you other questions. Okay, seeing none then we'll go to the public. If.

A

You'd like to comment on chapter 7 definitions, you step forward, seeing none.

A

We're back to council for final comments on this chapter. If you would like to.

A

Make general comments about the you? Do I suggest that we wait until consideration.

A

Of written objections, time for council comment on the you do as a whole. At that.

A

Time, council mercer ron, do you have a comment on chapter 7? I wondered if I.

H

Could use any time to make my comments on conditional use or, if that is out of.

H

C

Yeah, I think we should wait. This is chapter seven questions or.

A

Comments, councilmember, piedmont, smith,.

E

Yes, I would, I would just like to read the new definition of family, because I.

E

Think there are some interesting changes here, but I also want to read it because.

E

There's there's a fear out there that somehow we're gonna get 17 people as a.

E

Family, so families defined as an individual or.

E

Group of persons that meets at least one of the following definitions, number one.

E

An individual or a group of people, all of whom are related to each other by.

E

Blood, marriage or legal adoption, foster parent responsibility or other legal.

E

Status, making the person of dependent of one or more persons legally residing in.

E

The household under federal or state law- so that's a family, but it's a looser.

E

Definition of you know, adoption foster parenting. It's enter number to a group.

E

Of no more than five adults, age, 55 years of age or older, living together as a.

E

Single housekeeping unit in a dwelling unit, it's a little redundant, but I like.

E

That so that's you know as people age and especially if they retired their.

E

Income is restricted, and this is a way to have an affordable household and to.

E

Kind of pick, your family, your people, you feel like you can live with, and it's I.

E

Like this addition to them, the definition number three, a group of.

E

People whose right to live together is protected by the federal, fair housing act. Amendments of 1988 and/or, the bloomington human rights ordinance as.

E

Amended and interpreted by the courts, including but not limited to persons.

E

That are pregnant, I'm not sure of all the intricacies of this, but I think.

E

Group homes would would fall under this definition. Maybe some residential.

E

Treatment, small group home treatment centers, so some kind of supporting.

E

Supported living environment, which I think we want to want to allow, of course,.

E

And now this is important so in the are e r1, r2, r3 and r4 zoning district. So.

E

This is mainly the single-family districts and in single-family.

E

Residential portions of planned unit development, a group of no more than.

E

Three adults and their dependent children living together as a single.

E

Housekeeping unit or a combination of a single-family dwelling unit and an.

E

Accessory dwelling unit, so this is not increasing the number of related people.

E

Or I'm sorry not increasing the number of non related people who can live in a.

E

So-Called single-family home, so that is staying the same number five and all.

E

Other zoning districts family also includes a group of no more than five.

E

Adults and their dependent children living together as a single housekeeping.

E

Unit so here, councilmember store-bough was wondering what why this was in here.

E

I assume it applies to multi-family districts and it could apply to student.

E

Housing, it could apply to cooperative housing. I do hope that we get a.

E

Definition of cooperative housing that makes it allowed in single-family.

E

Districts, but for now that would be allowed under this category in districts.

E

That are not single-family, so I think there are. There are situations where you.

E

Have more than if you had that you have four or five unrelated adults that live.

E

Together so anyway, I just want to review that for the public's benefit. I think.

E

It's a important definition because in a lot of the earlier parts of this code, it.

E

Refers to single-family zoning, and so this is what we're talking about. Thank.

E

You come summer, valen kalyn do the same.

C

Thing for student, housing or dormitory that councillor piemonte smith did with.

C

Family and let it read the definition, a multiple family dwelling designed.

C

Primarily as housing for or likely to be occupied by unmarried, undergraduate.

C

Or postgraduate students, including, but not limited to one multiple family.

C

Dwellings that contain any living units with four or more bedrooms or to.

C

Multiple family dwellings, where more than 33% of the living units, contain.

C

Three bedrooms or three residential buildings that do not meet the.

C

Definition of a residential rooming house, or hotel or motel, in which any of.

C

The bedrooms require the use of a common hallway shared by more than three.

C

Bedrooms to access the nearest bathroom facilities or to access a cooking area.

C

Containing a built-in sink refrigerator and stove or oven for purposes of.

C

Determining whether a multiple family dwelling meets this definition, the city.

C

May consider the degree to which the facility is occupied by undergraduate or.

C

Postgraduate students and the degree to which occupancy is marketed to.

C

Undergraduate or postgraduate students, this use does not include a fraternity.

C

Or sorority there are a lot of problems with a definition like this. First of all,.

C

It lumps graduate students and undergraduates together. There are.

C

Different use cases graduate students tend to live in properties for longer.

C

Periods of time undergraduates, if they are moving every year, are often doing so.

C

Because if they don't, because they have to determine where they're gonna live.

C

Next year, almost 1011 months before they have to move because there often are not.

C

Here in the summertime, I'm not sure it's their choice that they want to be as.

C

Itinerant as they are, it's that that's the nature of the housing market in a.

C

Town like this, but the three bullet points you have. The three bullet points.

C

Only the third one residential buildings that do not meet a rooming house or.

C

Hotel definition, that's the common idea that we have of a dormitory but multiple.

C

Family dwellings that contain any living init's with four or more bedrooms. That's.

C

Considered student housing, I mean there are how many five bedroom units or ten.

C

Minutes are there in town that are, you know they may not have a majority of.

C

Students I mean overall, all this does is it said it creates a separation of class.

C

It assumes that all students are not it's not desirable to live near.

C

Students res students, in your building, if you're a non student, it certainly.

C

Does not encourage us to find a way to integrate the student population into.

C

The city, without you know, separating them in units, in particular areas of.

C

Town, one thing that I may concede, because I've been on record as saying.

C

That I oppose absolutely the student housing definition, but you look at it in.

C

The video it specifically says, mixed-use student housing and as staff said it.

C

Specifically about large buildings targeted to students, I accept that there.

C

Are buildings like that we often call them dormitories, even when they're not, and you know we ought to have a definition for that. It's the title.

C

That's the issue: it's the assumption that somehow all students are the same.

C

And that students need to be I just don't even there people last I checked.

C

There were people they have behaviors that are different than your typical non.

C

Student, it's a short step from student to kid. Why don't want to live next to.

C

College kids last I checked they were 18 and they can vote, and I said this.

C

Countless times and I'll keep saying it, because it's a lesson that we have yet.

C

To integrate in the city, I don't care what percentage they are of the city if.

C

We don't start treating them like adults if we don't assume that they are adults.

C

That they are then we're gonna have negative consequences. As a result, I.

C

Don't have enough time to go into that kind of detail, but you know I'm I'm.

C

Looking at this definition and the definition of mixed to student housing.

C

To make sure that at least at least in our rhetoric that we, you know, don't.

C

Infantilize students, so we don't continue. Infantilizing students like.

C

Campuses of a tendency of doing in the first place. Thank you further comment on.

A

Chapter 7, okay, seeing none! Thank you, mr. robinson. Thank you. Mr. berlocq.

A

That concludes our introduction to propose to the proposed unified.

A

Development ordinance, we will now go to consideration of written objections for.

A

Indiana code, three: six, seven: four: six: oh six, c3 I'd like to make an announcement.

A

That the council is taking up these considerations of written objections now.

A

The council has a packet of written objections filed before the meeting.

A

Which were handed out before the meeting and are available to the public if you'd.

A

Like a copy, you can approach, the clerk has some copies and if you're a member.

A

Of the public wishing to file one this evening, please do so with the city clerk.

A

Either before or after you speak, and please raise your hand if you wish to.

A

Speak in regard to her in objection, anyone would like to speak one two, two.

A

Two people, three three people; okay, so so I see there are three people and wish to.

A

Speak about written objections council will now hear from them. Each speaker may.

A

Speak for no more than three minutes, so please approach the podium and state.

A

Your name and sign in please.

A

You have three minutes.

R

I'm elizabeth cox ashe and I want to address something I mean one of the.

R

Things that the public is so concerned about with this you do is it involves.

R

Their homes, this is most people's largest investment. This is so anything.

R

That affects their largest investment of their entire lives, they're going to feel.

R

Very threatened about it as a result, in some of these hearings, I have seen.

R

Gestures, I've heard leading comments, there's kind of a nastiness about this.

R

Whole discussion about the you do in 2003, bloomington adopted the safe and.

R

Civil city and I was so proud of bloomington for adopting that this kept.

R

I hoped conversations from being nasty one of the biggest elephants in the room.

R

Is what has happened to our local farmers market and how? I think it has.

R

Been permanently changed anytime, you go. You hear the yelling back and forth of.

R

Complaints against a vendor or vendor friends come shouting back and forth.

R

I'll tell you, I don't feel safe at that farmers market.

R

I really don't, and I don't know how we can ever go back to what it was before. I.

R

Have a neighbor across the street who has a toddler and an infant, and he has.

R

Said he's afraid to take his family to the farmers market. This nastiness has.

R

Gone all along even with gestures or anything else. I just would hope everyone.

R

Would be safe and civil and polite and any comments made.

R

Please do it please, be nice, don't be nasty. Thank you. Thank you for your.

A

Comment, my name is michele henderson.

S

According to a front-page article in the herald times on october, 21st 2019, the.

S

City is paying about nebraska-based rdg planning and design 41 thousand dollars.

S

For a housing study, the team has already found a relatively high vacancy rate of.

S

Nine point: five: nine point: five percent, which doesn't indicate a housing.

S

Shortage or crisis, so why destroy the affordable housing that still exists in.

S

The core neighborhoods, replacing old houses with plexes will damage our local.

S

Environment by sending tons of debris to our landfills, releasing toxic wastes.

S

Like asbestos dust and that and causing the destruction of old-growth trees and.

S

Wildlife habitat voting to make the plexus conditional will have the same.

S

Effect as by right, please understand that the real estate investment firms.

S

Who will be demolishing small houses to build larger, more expensive housing? Will.

S

Gladly pay the fines due to their profit margin, replacing small, older houses with.

S

More expensive housing will be devastating to low-income residents, who.

S

Will be evicted by landlords who went to sell their rental properties to.

S

Developers I have two empty houses on my street, because the landlords would not.

S

Renew the leases, when was an elderly couple, who'd lived there 20 years when.

S

Was a single mother? Those houses are now empty, they're waiting to see. What's.

S

Going to happen with this, you do, but that is a fact. It's right there on.

S

My street, I am requesting an amendment that removes the core neighborhoods from.

S

Up zoning in order to protect the low-income residents who live there as.

S

Well, as the unique green space only found in our older neighborhoods, please.

S

Do what is in the best interest of the residents who live in our residential.

S

Core neighborhoods and vote no to replacing the zoning ordinance from.

S

Single-Family to multifamily, please don't vote in the interest of wealthy.

S

Real estate developers over our local income low income residents- this is not.

S

The way to help the most vulnerable citizens you were elected to serve. Thank.

S

You thank you for your comment good evening, I'm patrick murray. This is.

T

Regarding chapter four and I'm speaking against changing the you do to allow.

T

Three and four unit multiplexes in the core neighborhoods, so I have a few.

T

Observations to go along with that. Some of these are questions. This bloom didn't.

T

Have a housing density problem I don't know, but it does have a housing cost.

T

Problem are these the same? Are they different issues? Well, adding more.

T

Housing, lower the price of housing or across the board have we conflated.

T

Density with affordability will the increased housing density create more.

T

Housing, affordable to the missing middle and below housing density and housing.

T

Affordability are two different issues that require different solutions. There.

T

Is an urge to copy what other communities are doing, our our problems.

T

The same as theirs do we know all the facts: should we adopt their solutions.

T

Without an understanding of what their situation is and understand, if it's.

T

Working or not, there is an urge to do. There is an urge to do what other.

T

Communities are doing will that work in bloomington.

T

In prospect, hill we've been adding density little by little for a long time.

T

It's been an organic process, taking what we have and altering renovating it.

T

Amending it adding to it to create additional units, the house becomes a.

T

Little duplex on the same footprint with a few bedrooms, each nobody notices it's.

T

Not a big change, it fits in. Someone creates an adu behind their house down.

T

The alley walk around our neighborhood and you'll find a dozen, maybe more.

T

Tucked away in the neighborhood they fit in a little more density, we said we.

T

Subdivide long lots for tiny houses, there was a project on maple street.

T

Several years ago, that did that we worked with life designs and another.

T

Organization to create an affordable apartment, building on the edge of the.

T

Neighborhood on an unused site that used to be a church, and then it was an unused.

T

Commercial building that was on west third street, we have addressed.

T

Individual sites with individual solutions, it's a process that works and.

T

Has neighborhood consensus? I think we need to have a process that works for.

T

The neighborhoods and the need for more housing for rental and homeownership. We.

T

Already have a system that works, let's find two that tweak it a bit to make it.

T

More user-friendly prospect hill is a real neighborhood with homeowners and.

T

Renters people of all ages, families of all sizes, growing families with children.

T

And empty nesters people of many colors and languages, we have houses of many.

T

Sizes and many price ranges I've seen rancho has become homeowners. I've seen.

T

Widows downsize and new families move in next door. To me, it's an organic process.

T

There works prospect. Hill is not broken, it is not an.

T

Obsolete paradigm, let's value and protect our core.

T

Neighborhoods, let's capitalize, on what we do well and what works here. We are a.

T

Community of intelligent, resourceful, inventive people, let's create a.

T

Bloomington solution, not a portland ore solution. Thank you for your comments. Yes,.

A

I will allow others if they want to step up and comment members of.

M

The council, my name, is david kapil. I did not file any written objection because I.

M

Had no objection to the you do as it was recommended to the plan commission, but I.

M

Do want to thank members of the public and all members of the council for very.

M

Hard work and for what, for me, has been a thoroughly enlightening and educational.

M

Experience which has changed my previous views, while I remain deeply committed to.

M

Higher-Density, I urge the commission in this weekend.

M

When you have to file amendments to think creatively about amendments.

M

Narrower than blocking- because I don't think, that's necessary, but that would.

M

Address the real issues that members, the public have expressed, concern about and.

M

I believe that with I don't want to go into detail here. There isn't time, but I.

M

Believe that you will find amendments that would greatly reduce the risks that.

M

Have been discussed while allowing what the last speaker called an organic.

M

Increase in density, including duplexes and triplexes, so I urge you to look for.

M

Those amendments to think what those amendments would be and to find a way to.

M

Address the twin need for well triple need, affordable housing, greater.

M

Sustainability in an age of climate crisis and respect for all our residents.

M

And all the hard work they've put to make bloomington what it is and I think.

M

You can find that way forward. I think, after all the division, we can go forward.

M

In surprising unity with a little creativity and much respect and thanks.

M

To all, thank you.

U

My name is wendy brushed. I spoke a while back. I was listening in today to the.

U

Meeting and it seems to me that there isn't a good understanding of what it's.

U

Like to live close to the university and know the threat of the encroaching.

U

Student housing, I think the desperation that people are.

U

Expressing is because they have been there before I shared last time what it.

U

Was like in the 1970s and the neighborhood went downhill so fast. It.

U

Took your breath away, it was systemic in just a few years, half.

U

Of el heights was gone and the only thing that stopped it. It stopped just.

U

About a tower block, the only thing that stopped it was the reinstatement of the.

U

Occupancy limits otherwise, and the other thing that stopped it was that at that.

U

Time student rents were cheap and investors were not willing to pay the.

U

Big bucks for the houses that were very close to campus that were expensive, but.

U

Even after the you know, the that was a battle to reinstate that, but even after.

U

That was done. It took a long time because there were still big enclaves of.

U

Students- and I know some very nice students, but the ones that live near.

U

Campus in groups are almost all there, almost all undergraduates, and they are.

U

They can be very nice and they can be wild animals and the ones that were near.

U

Us were wild animals and we had a lot of trouble. It was very uneasy time for a.

U

Very long time we didn't feel safe. We didn't allow children to walk alone. We.

U

Didn't we were just uncomfortable, students are different when they're when.

U

They're spread out and mixed in with the community than when they're in groups.

U

And the difference between three students in a house.

U

Lot or up to 18 students per lot in a triplex is huge. Let's see I just from.

U

From my own experience, we had a drug house kitty-corner to us on first and.

U

Woodlawn, that was, and still is, occasionally partying yelling profanity.

U

Drunkenness fights- these are not things that families and retirees can withstand.

U

Not on a regular basis, they just can't it just doesn't work. I think you know I.

U

Think we've been there, we've done it, we've seen what happens almost instantly.

U

When the protections of the neighborhoods close to the university.

U

Are lifted and to ignore that is to repeat it, and I think the rest, you know.

U

There's no way to take it back, there's no way to get back the neighborhoods that are now student housing and to lose the rest of it will be lost forever. I.

U

Think we're just very vulnerable because we're so close to to the to the.

U

Neighborhood, I never thought I never thought our our neighborhood would.

U

Recover I never wanted to live there. Excuse me, your time is expired. Could you.

A

Conclude in a sense, yes, I just I, I would urge you to try to maybe introduce.

U

Something that could protect us from the certainty of the takeover by this by the.

U

Student rental units that are close to the university okay. Thank you. Okay,.

A

Other comment from the public on written objections, seeing none we're back to.

A

Council and we have an opportunity for questions for staff or comments. So let's.

A

Go to questions. Are there any questions.

A

Okay, we'll go to comments then counselor. Mr. baum, you can begin yeah.

H

You know I'm not a debater and I'm not playing any games. I really am trying to.

H

Tell the truth, as I understand the story about what happened at the plan.

H

Commission, when conditional use was being debated between ad use and by rite.

H

Aid to use and the planning department said: oh, there were only 12 or 10 that.

H

Came through and they were implying that the conditional use process had slowed.

H

Or stopped those 80 years from happening when I actually asked how many were.

H

Turned down in the ad you process, the answer was zero. The actual problem was.

H

That they did not fit the lots, they didn't fit the lots period and this talk.

H

Of we straightened everything out before and that's why they all went through. I.

H

Get permits all the time buy-rite has to meet setbacks. Buy-Rite.

H

Has to meet regulations, and so do these ad use. So there was nothing in the.

H

Conditional use process that obstructed the ad use from happening. There was.

H

Simply inconsistent language drafted for the criteria, so I just wanted to say.

H

That, because that is what I understand to be true, I also understand this- that.

H

You know in the 70s we were just talking about the history of the city, anti-war.

H

Action on this on this campus was was going on and the city was the first city.

H

Really to turn over as a democratic city from a republican city and frank.

H

Mcklusky came in and made all kinds of changes one of the changes he was an.

H

Idealist and he wanted to fix everything one of the changes he made and a word.

H

That one of his planners used was egalitarian. They upzone to five.

H

Unrelated and they thought this was going to be a very good change for.

H

Everyone in the city and it unleashed this speculation on the city in this.

H

Devastation of neighborhoods that no one expected, but it they should have in the.

H

College town and it took tim miller, was the planner.

H

For all those 12 years and his career was kind of getting the genie back in.

H

The bottle and the end of tommy allison's, mayor mayorship, there were.

H

There were signs like it wasn't exactly lynch tim miller, but there was a there.

H

Was a big bull billboard that was against him and against tommy for doing.

H

All this because the downzoning was going to cost investors money and she.

H

She decided not to run again right at that time when the vote came for. Are we.

H

Going to down zone so the down zoning happened right after she was not running.

H

And tim miller was then let go by the next mayor and he thinks well somebody.

H

Said planners have an expiration date, he took a lot of heat for what happened and.

H

A new planner came in, but we've seen it we've seen it happen and it takes time.

H

It took it took time for that to devastate these neighborhoods and the.

H

Single-Family zoning that was enacted was enacted to save the neighborhoods. It.

H

We've been called racist, we've been called, we don't want poor people in our.

H

Neighborhoods we've been called all kinds of things, but that isn't what happened in bloomington? That wasn't what took place and the fact that we've seen.

H

It before and the very well-meaning people are saying: let's try it again.

H

And we're saying there are places to put this density. These neighborhoods are.

H

Valuable and all these all these all these polls said, like people want little.

H

Houses they want single-family houses and to devastate and remove those from.

H

Our stock, when it isn't necessary by careless down zoning without.

H

Understanding the unintended consequences, that's why people are.

H

Coming out- and I have one last thing to say, the statistics on people who have.

H

Talked to us, the written comments 38 to agree with me, the elm heights meeting.

H

That was announced 70 to 1. They voted in favor of not.

H

Adding plexus counsel my understand bob lick comments were 35 for not adding.

H

Plexus that will have to conclude your comments and I know we'll move on to.

A

Further counsel comment: anyone like to comment smith yeah. I just want to say.

E

This whole process has been very difficult for me and I think, for most of.

E

Us sitting up here for, for various reasons, the research that is out there.

E

Studying the effects of upzoning, there is research on both sides. There's.

E

Some that says this creates filtering and leads to affordable housing. There's.

E

Some that says no up, zoning doesn't lead to affordable housing, so there there are.

E

Research scholars with phds who have found opposite results this and none of.

E

The communities they study is like bloomington they're, all studying big.

E

Cities mostly out in california, so it's very difficult to make data-driven.

E

Decisions in this case, because there there are no studies of equivalent.

E

Communities out there and the studies that do exist. I have read more studies.

E

That say, upzoning is a good thing in the long term, but I know there are studies.

E

Out there that contradict that, so it's very difficult to know what to do. I.

E

Agree with councilmember stir bomb that certainly I have received a lot more.

E

Public comment against allowing plexes in single-family neighborhoods than I.

E

Have received in favor of it, I also as people know. I think climate change is.

E

The most important issue facing society today and the city is not excluded. I.

E

Think the city needs to do everything possible to reduce greenhouse gas.

E

Emissions and I think greater density close to where people work play and.

E

Study is an important part of that. Another complication in this issue is.

E

That kona, which is an organization that I have long respected, came out with a.

E

Mailer with basically false information and also didn't apparently follow their.

E

Own bylaws and approving their stance on this issue, and I'm very and they are a.

E

Nonprofit organization, which is not supposed to be doing, lobbying and I feel.

E

Like their mailer was lobbying, so there are many unfortunate outcomes in this.

E

Whole process in that I've lost the faith that I had in kona as a body with.

E

Great integrity, and which is very unfortunate because they they do. They.

E

Could speak for for as a democratic voice? You know to help us up here.

E

Understand issues, but now I believe they have been compromised by this. It's also.

E

Unfortunate because it's become very bitter as one of his miss cox, ashe.

E

Pointed out it's become very uncivil. People have accused me of being a liar.

E

Of accused me of being, like president trump in this, and really what I've just.

E

Tried to do is is listen, I've always take notes, and you know way that the two.

E

Sides- and I am not a cheerleader for either side as as people know, I I have.

E

Been leaning towards allowing the plexus, but I have not made up my mind and I.

E

Really appreciate the comments of mr. kapil, in that I do hope that we can.

E

Address the greatest concerns- and maybe not this this year, but eventually maybe.

E

We can lead to greater density. I think it is unfortunate that the housing study.

E

The city has commissioned is not completed. The timing is poor in that.

E

Respect so I I just wanted to relay that to convey.

E

My sincerity in this effort and that I will continue to just study it carefully.

E

Thank you, councilmember sandberg. Thank you throughout this entire discussion.

F

Obviously we are dealing with a lot of what I like to call academic politics.

F

Where people can kind of get very entrenched very early on, depending on.

F

Who they've read where they've gotten their research and then they developed.

F

Their own confirmation bias, and so what I have tried to do is I have carefully.

F

And thoughtfully listened to all sides is to try to see how does this make.

F

Sense in bloomington, which is the city, I know the city, I love where there has.

F

Been a lot of history of the threats and the vulnerability that many of the.

F

Long-Term residents are talking about when they have experienced the.

F

Encroachments from the university and they've seen how that has impacted the.

F

Quality of their life in a very negative way, and then we've been through the.

F

Whole politics of how do we course-correct.

F

When we make an experiment thinking, oh let's try it, what can it hurt and then.

F

We find out that it does hurt people, it does hurt the quality of their lives and.

F

Then the next mayor, who's elected, has to try to undo it. I have an anecdote about.

F

Mayor allison, when I was first running and kind of seeking her advice as a.

F

Mentor and she says susan, I will tell you whenever you get between men and.

F

Their money, you're gonna, have some challenges. I will never forget her.

F

Saying that to me, looking me straight in the eye and giving me that piece of.

F

Advice and unfortunately, I'm looking at follow the money who benefits from this.

F

If our own staff is telling us that the plex is in the core are not for.

F

Affordability, that's not what we're gonna get then. What are we trying to get.

F

With putting plexus in the core neighborhood, I would say I'm not against.

F

Plexus but let's put them where they belong: let's put them in areas that are.

F

Not developed yet where we can develop bungalows row houses townhouses in a.

F

Manner that is appropriate. That does not tread on the toes of the.

F

Or neighborhood residents who have invested in homes- and there is diversity.

F

There there are already plexus there, there are houses that are rentals, so.

F

What are we trying to accomplish here? I've got to question that every time.

F

This issue comes up that I think we don't want to be careless in our up.

F

Zoning, we don't want to have the negative unintended consequences. One.

F

Less thing with respect to oftentimes, when we run out of arguments that are.

F

Rational and positive and supporting what you believe we tend to resort to.

F

Name-Calling and as councilmember voland has warned us, students are people, we.

F

Treat people with all due respect, regardless of they're here temporarily,.

F

As students at indiana university or whether they're long-term residents but.

F

Well, it's none of us resort to the easy labels. Nimby mb. The sky is falling.

F

Relentless attacks you're fixated on this, you know being opposed to the.

F

Plexes, let's all tamp that down, because there are good people in this community.

F

Who are students? There are good people here who are long-term residents, who.

F

Know and have lived through the history of housing in this community and and are.

F

Legitimately afraid that is not being fixated, that's not you know, being you.

F

Know, oh this guy is falling. We're afraid of students are afraid of this. That.

F

Other thing: no, there are legitimate things for us to be concerned about and.

F

So from this point on again, I encourage the language of be respectful, regardless.

F

Of where people are coming from, they mean well, they are well-intentioned.

F

Our job up here is to try to sift through the confirmation bias. The.

F

Academics of politics get to the truth of the matter. What do we need in.

F

Bloomington again, let's not compare ourselves to other larger cities. Let's.

F

Compare ourselves to ourselves we're unique: we have a university right in our.

F

Midst, it causes housing issues so with that.

F

Let's all keep our heads about us and, let's get to the solutions. Thank you.

F

Thank you further comments. Councilmember pullin.

C

I am not a debater for the sake of debate either. I'm not playing games.

C

Either I'll say it again: students are people, students are citizens, students.

C

Are constituents the difference? Is they move every year, 28,000 of them of the.

C

Current enrollment at iu move every year because rationally they don't want to.

C

Pay summer rent they're, not here for the summer. That means they need to make.

C

Their decision to find a new place to live every year unless they want to pay.

C

Three months rent, I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to understand that.

C

But every time a homeowner comes up, they say we worry about our properties.

C

There's only only citizens who count or homeowners are there any renters who.

C

Have spoken before us during this debate: are there any renters who wrote.

C

Objections that we're considering tonight, none that I've seen. I have.

C

Colleagues who say people want single-family houses as though that's true for all people. Let's start with me, although I live in a single-family house.

C

Now I never really wanted one. I've complained about gutters and lawns. I.

C

Don't particularly like them, I'd prefer to live in an apartment. I can assure you.

C

That there are plenty of people who don't feel the need to live in a.

C

Single-Family house, who don't feel the need to have a yard, but they had.

C

Precious few places they can buy if they're, even in the market, to buy and as.

C

We've noted two-thirds of housing is rental, that's not because everyone in.

C

That category wants to buy a house, but we keep hearing how students are.

C

Destroying the neighborhood's I mean I would humbly suggest that maybe it's not.

C

The students that are destroying the neighborhood- it's the policies of the state entity that we have a stockholm syndrome.

C

Relationship with called iu that makes policy decisions without consulting us.

C

At all, I think we actually may all have that in common that we we agree that we.

C

Wish I you would be more respectful of the decisions that we have to make in.

C

Order to accommodate everyone who wants to come to this place, I've heard talk.

C

About density versus cost density is an answer to cost. If there's not.

C

Enough density, I mean the the prices are high in neighborhoods right now, because.

C

There isn't enough housing for the demand. It's as simple as that and the.

C

Difference if there's a difference, it's not so much the single-family housing.

C

It's the location of that housing with respect to places where people want to.

C

Go inner city core inner core housing allows people to go somewhere without.

C

The use of a car that saves money, if you can you know if you can, if you don't.

C

Need so much to spend money on a car you're ahead of the game you can afford.

C

More housing all we reason to reduce the amount of parking for new property built.

C

In the center of the city, I hear people talk about neighborhood consensus among.

C

Owner occupants, among owners, you know there are people living among us who are.

C

Also developers, I'm not going to say that there's a difference between a.

C

Small-Time developer and a big one, but we don't make that distinction. It's just.

C

Developers, like we say, students we were elected to serve all the citizens of.

C

Bloomington, not just low-income residents and not just landlords. We have.

C

To represent everyone, and that's why this card made me so upset the kona is.

C

No longer affiliated directly with the city the last time they got money from the city they got $1,000 four years ago for some kind of a public event. They're.

C

Now, a 501c3 which is prohibited from lobbying, prohibited specifically from.

C

Asking you to contact your city council member, write, a letter to the editor.

C

Herald to lobby council members, I questioned whether the car was even.

C

Legal, this is not the council of neighbor associations. This is dip.

C

Political action committee of the association of residential property.

C

Owners, that's what they should be calling themselves. I think we need to.

C

Think twice about all the terms that we use. We come to this debate.

C

Thank you further comment from council councilmember chopra. Yes, I'm gonna try.

G

To pick up a little bit where council member whole and left off.

G

Of course, these comments on my own and not his, but the question is who funds.

G

Kona, where do they get their money? How did they pay for that mailer? I ran.

G

For office- and I know how expensive it is to send a mailer like that in color.

G

Both sides- it's very thousands of dollars, there's.

G

Also, a bulk permit postage stamp on there, whose stamp is that whose postage.

G

Stamp is that I just have questions right, because kona is a very, very small.

G

Group of people in this town it doesn't represent, and the people that come in.

G

Here and speak, who are, homeowners, are a very, very, very small group of people in.

G

This town- I just turned 37 years old yesterday and a lot of my friends, I'm.

G

Not homeowners, they're, not homeowners,.

G

Because they cannot afford to buy homes in this town and people have been.

G

Younger me are really out of luck. You know I got lucky. I got to buy a home.

G

When we put 0% down when I was really young and I was to happen to be married,.

G

And could afford that, but people who are younger than me can not afford to save.

G

Up and be homeowners, we've got to stop. You know focusing on.

G

The only people who are showing up the only people who the time and resources.

G

To pay attention to cats and to come to these meetings and to be part of an.

G

Association like that, there are far more people in this community than those who.

G

Are speaking up and I think that as council members we've got to keep that.

G

In our in our minds, thank you. Councilmember sims we've had some trying.

P

Weeks, talking about you do and up zoning many people say up zoning. I prefer to.

P

Say rezoning, you start sent up zoning down so that has different connotations.

P

So I tend to say rezoning a lot of the language civility. I've heard that.

P

Tonight, stability, safe and civil and being nice.

P

I'll, just let that just for a second, because I think many of us step over the.

P

Line, I'm not so sure it's intentional, it just is, and I hope I don't jump around.

P

Here but I don't have that much time and there's a couple things over 50% of the.

P

Housing we have here is rental, and I don't know the exact I think 54% or.

P

Something like that 66, it is rental property, so for us not to to be.

P

Cognizant of that, and to be aware of that and see how that fits, it would be.

P

Ludicrous I'm, like some of my colleagues, I have a lot of friends that rent and.

P

Would prefer to buy a there's the supply and demand? There's just not the housing.

P

Stock now is that going to if we just plop 500 new houses in the county is.

P

That going to solve our problems, well, a lot of the folks that I know that.

P

Want to buy houses may not be able to for other reasons, and but we want that.

P

To some availability in so when that happens,.

P

Speaking of civility, I think many of us need to again. I don't think there's any.

P

Ill intent, but we need to kind of say what we mean and mean what we say for an.

P

Example, essentially, conditional use or conditional use is essentially by right.

P

I think I've clearly said that is not my understanding, so I think we need to you.

P

Know just quit trying to get those together and I'm not advocating one for.

P

The other just the differences, okay, I also heard up here and again. I would not.

P

Suspect that there was any ill meaning here, but talking about old.

P

Administrations and old planning departments and the comments was well.

P

You know, people were upset and there were signs around town and it didn't.

P

Exactly say lynch, but but that's what they really meant for tim miller. I know.

P

Tim miller, okay, I think we just need to be sensitive with some of the things.

P

That we say and understand it's a broader. We have broader people.

P

Here and we just need to be more sensitive with some of the things that we say now, we've all got you know everyone up here has got different.

P

Reasons for you do my main thing for sitting on this city council, and we do.

P

Know some of the historical implications involved here, but my main thing was, is.

P

To decide as socially just and as equitably and as I can in order to.

P

Eliminate discrimination and unfair treatment of minorities and marginalized.

P

And everyone else in this community: it's just that simple for me. So many of the.

P

Decisions is it going to help society, make it more equitable, more socially.

P

Just more fair for everybody, those are the things that I look for. Yes,.

P

I am concerned with with climate change, I've read ipcc. I've talked with all of.

P

Our folks and in many that we here at the podium, I've had coffee, you know and.

P

My understanding has been broadened. It is very, very important to be considered.

P

I just in assess, for example, we need to cut 50% and someone correct me. That's.

P

50% emissions by 2050 what had 400 years ago, we would have said we want to cut.

P

All discrimination by 1800 and we had that type of urgency. So many of these.

P

That we're talking about their urgency to understand there is a basket of.

P

Urgencies that make this a community and that we all must consider. Thank you very.

P

Much councilman ruff yeah I'll just say that.

K

I think most of the controversial aspects of the proposed you do will be.

K

Coming amendments will be coming forward related to those in some way or other.

K

And there'll be plenty of opportunity. I think I feel myself to be able to.

K

Comment at those at that time, so I don't really feel strong need to.

K

Make any additional comment right now. Thank you.

K

Any other comments I'll make mine. Okay, I I've been looking at the our.

A

Comprehensive plan, and referring to it in terms of determining whether flexes.

A

And up zoning is appropriate and I I would they're a lot there's a lot to say.

A

But I would just like to say that regarding development themes for.

A

Land-Use classifications, there are three types one is to maintain: the other.

A

Another is to enhance and another is to transform the maintained category.

A

Contains older residential neighborhoods, those are ones that we should replicate.

A

That we should maintain that we should protect, enhance, are those that have lost.

A

Their integrity that we need to enhance through the process of looking at what.

A

We would want to maintain and replicating that and then there are.

A

Those land uses that we want to transform and those areas are those.

A

Areas that are virtually empty or need redevelopment. It's clear to me that.

A

Plexus pertain to, in some cases enhance but more likely transform the existing.

A

Neighborhoods that we're talking about placing plexes in are those that we seek.

A

To maintain not to transform and so we're at cross-purposes the most.

A

Affected neighborhoods by this kind of density will be the corman neighborhoods.

A

Those are the most dense in many ways: they're the most affordable. Think of.

A

Small homes in greenacres and the most cohesive- and we can refer.

A

Back to history, in terms of the problems related to the cohesiveness, it's.

A

Certainly dependent upon number of residents who are owner-occupied versus.

A

Renters, there's no question and it's about people are established versus.

A

People are transient and that's against people, our rent.

A

Renters, but there is some kind of balance and the the comprehensive plan.

A

Speaks again and again in terms of its preference for owner occupancy and.

A

Incentives and enhancing owner occupancy, so to me it's it was really working.

A

Against our theme, in a comprehensive plan to have plexus in these.

A

Neighborhoods there are places for density. We do need density, we're on the.

A

Verge of increasing density downtown by almost tenfold over the last 20 years, so.

A

We've been effective at that, but we're not lacking undeveloped areas for.

A

Instance, the kmart site, the hospital site, sudbury area 7 or the north and.

A

South corridors, those are places we can develop and we can develop a number of.

A

Different housing sites, I'd also like to refer to the housing study that was just.

A

Completed, which is a regional opportunity, initiative study that.

A

Described that the most sought-after housing is our single-family homes and.

A

If we're going to eliminate those single-family homes- and I would argue.

A

The most affordable, because those in say in green acres, the small single-family.

A

Homes are the most affordable, we're going to be working across purposes.

A

Removing affordability and the single-family homes that people desire.

A

Where will they find them they'll find them on the periphery? That's not.

A

Sustainable: it's not sustainable to buy single-family homes in elet's, ville and.

A

Then, to commute to iu every day, that's hardly sustainable, so I will.

A

Support removing the conditional use from the you do because, as we know, and I.

A

Think consumer mr. boehm is correct. The history shows that conditional use by.

A

And large, in probably 90% of the time or some function thereof, results in the in.

A

The use- and so I consider it very close to permitted use and I'll conclude there.

A

So with no other comment, I think we're exhausted comments. Everyone's spoken, we.

A

Move on to any other matters, we have a request. Do we have time.

A

We have no time limits on uncomment or what we do have time limits. Is there any.

A

Time remaining debate: can you keep it brief? Yes, but if you speaks and everyone.

C

Else get a chance to speak all right. Let's keep our comments down to 30.

A

Seconds because I think, we've all basically used almost all of our time.

A

Comes mr. bunker didn't agree with what kona published and they called it lies.

H

And it was not, it was published because the newspaper had not been letting.

H

People know what was happening, we would talk to people and they had no idea that.

H

There was an up sound coming and I don't know why that happened. That's why I.

H

Believe kona wanted to let this information out and we debated talking.

H

About each point, by point we decided no, we know what that said and I think it's.

H

A matter of it kind of attacking the messenger, because any other 30-second.

A

Bites of the apple councilmember bowling yeah, there were.

C

Lies in it, we don't have time to go through them. You know, and it doesn't.

C

Really matter what matters is a 501 c 3 is not supposed to be doing political.

C

Lobbying and they did so- these are facts, and I look forward to seeing them.

C

Addressed but you know, we also need to think about the future for thinking.

C

About climate change, this is my 10 second limit. It's good. It's done.

C

Everything about climate change: where is the housing in the next 20 years, that.

C

That we're gonna we're gonna be needing housing in 20 years. To where are we.

C

Gonna build it, it will ever get built. Any other comment: okay, seeing none any.

A

Other matters the reactions related to this proposal, ready to be raised at this.

A

Meeting no mr. chairman, okay, then, is there a.

A

Motion to recess and we will reconvene for our deliberations on wednesday.

A

November 13th at 6 p.m. here and we will be hearing in the voice of information.

C

Mr. chair important point of information, I want to just confirm that the deadline.

C

For amendments to the you do is monday, the 4th of november this coming monday.

C

Is that right at noon? So if there is anyone who is interested in seeing.

C

Language and the you do changed, replace or added. They are welcome to submit it.

C

To any council, where they like councillors, know that the deadline is.

C

Then, but I would urge everyone that anyone can write legislation. You know.

C

Send us your suggested language, we're all receptive to it. Allah doesn't do it.

C

As soon as possible, because the deadline is monday that at noon, thank you yes,.

D

November 13th and also the fourteenth six o'clock and we're taking up.

D

Amendments and we won't be done after the 14th.

D

No, we won't guaranteed. Is there a motion to recess too so moved? Second, all in.

A

Favor of recessing aye any opposed we're recessed.