City of Bloomington, Indiana City Council, 23 Oct 2019

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From YouTube: Bloomington City Council, October 23, 2019

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Meeting Agenda: https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=5093

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Good evening, I'd like to reconvene this special session of the bloomington.

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Common council for wednesday, the 23rd of october. This is a special session for.

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The introduction of ordinance 1924, which repeals and reenact the text of title 20.

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The unified development ordinance well, the clerk. Please call the roll.

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Councilmember ruff yeah chopra piedmon smith, here ranger here.

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Simms here stir bomb sandburg. Thank you. Here's the agenda summation for this.

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Evening and if you'd like an agenda, you may find it beside the clerk. We will.

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Visit counsel schedule then we'll proceed to ordinance 1924 to repeal and.

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Replace title 20 of the bloomington municipal code entitled unified development ordinance last evening we didn't quite conclude our deliberations.

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On chapter 3, we had public comments until the end of our meeting. There was a.

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Motion to continue back to council for questions and then to comment and.

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Deliberate, but that failed to have a second, so we may we may entertain. We may.

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Go back to that schedule before we we go on to the introduction to proposed.

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Unified development ordinance chapters 4, which is the development standards and.

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Incentives and chapter 5, which is the subdivision regulations, and then we will.

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Proceed to any other matters or actions related to this proposal, ready to be.

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Raised at this meeting before we recess again so with that, do we have any.

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Anything to address on council schedule, mr. chairman.

C

Thank you thank you and, let's all try to speak into our microphones and I forget.

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Myself, but if we could all power microphones closer, so we can be heard so.

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With that we'll we'll move on to the you do and is there house, what's the.

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Disposition of the council this evening, so we could go on to chapter 4 and.

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Chapter 5 or shall we receive finished chapter 3 woods? Yes, would someone like.

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To make a motion to that effect,.

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Pick up where we left off last night and give council members a chance for.

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Questions and final comments on chapter 3 mm-hmm. Any questions are debated about.

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That, okay, it has a second all right. Do we need a roll call vote on this? Mr.

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Sherman: okay! Yes, all right! Let's have a roll call on the motion. Chapra piedmon.

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Smith, granger up rallo, yes, boland, no simms, no stir bomb.

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Sandberg no, so the motion fails all right. Then we will move on to the.

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Introduction to proposed new high development ordinance chapter four and.

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Mr. robinson, which you'd like to present, we had you have 20 minutes. I believe.

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Good evening my name is scott robinson, I'm the assistant director for the.

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Planning and transportation department. Thank you for the opportunity to allow.

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Me to give a presentation this evening on chapter 4 in chapter five before I do.

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That I want to kind of premise this permit presentation that chapter four.

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Has a lot of information in it? I'm gonna give very high-level overview so that it.

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Will allow some more time for some questions and answers. I'd feel like I.

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Just can't spend a lot of time going on that, but before I do, I want to follow up.

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With some questions that we had last night, we did have some opportunity to.

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Research, some of those questions, so there was a questions about the use of.

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Methadone and/or other treatment facility in opioid, rehab, rehabilitation.

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Facilities, I'm going to turn that over to the city attorney mike ruger, he has a.

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Response for that question to help clarify that, I think we're a little bit.

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Back in chapter chapter 3 now, but I believe councilmember piedmont, smith had.

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Had a question about why the uses related to methadone clinics and opioid.

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Rehabilitation clinics were conditional and in certain districts the reason.

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They're conditional is because we want to have a sense about where they're going it's less than ideal, to have all opioid rehabilitation facilities, sort of.

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In the same geographic space, for a couple of reasons, we want them spread.

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Out so that we can avoid the potential negative consequences of having them in.

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A concentrated area we also want them, spread out so that they're.

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Geographically accessible to different members of the community as well so.

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Requiring a conditional use approval gives some authority some authority to.

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The city to make certain that they're spread out that they're, not all just concentrated in one space. Another reason is that surprisingly, opioid rehab.

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Facilities are not heavily regulated by the state and we don't have a local.

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Business requirement business licensing requirement. Excuse me, so we won't really.

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Know about these facilities without requiring a conditional use, approval and.

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These clinics have been popping up in some communities, not necessarily bloomington, but there have been some problems in other.

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Communities and in fact, I think everybody is well aware that we've seen.

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Some actors in this community who did not 100% play by the rules we've dealt.

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With some enforcement actions in city legal with the indiana center for.

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Recovery when they neglected to obtain a conditional use approval that that same.

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Center was also the subject of an enforcement action by the state for.

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Failing to comply with state fire code requirements, so we want to make sure we.

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Know about these things, and so that's why they're conditional as opposed to permitted, uses that sort of address your question. The the second question was the.

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Number of conditional uses our department reviews each year on our.

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Departments website there's a location where we have annual reviews where.

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There's number of permits and this sort of information is provided, so it's.

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Readily available, what I did is, I looked at the last from 2016 through 2018. We.

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Had a total of 25 conditional use, requests of those 22 were approved, but I.

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Do want to highlight you know the difference between those numbers and.

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What our staff reviews we get a lot more people that come into our office for.

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Evaluation of what they can and can't do on their properties. What kind of.

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Standards they need to meet, and often with that consultation staff provides.

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Direction and many people often choose not to pursue a conditional use, permit.

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They never apply for that, so I do want to clarify that. Well, the number might.

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Seem low many enquiries never end up leading anywhere. You know, as far as the.

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Number of cases that the bca hears those two to three years. It was like 38, 42,.

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Over those two years of type of cases they here, so I just wanted to clarify.

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That that information is available on the city, planning and transportation.

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Website the next question that was raised was the city services and you.

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Know which units they are limited to? I was correct, but you know sanitation is.

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The only one that limits to residential units of four.

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But in any commercial district, sanitation does not serve. I'm not aware.

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Of any other city service that limits to residential units or districts, that's.

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The only one that I'm aware of a building area, there was a question about.

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The building area- I just put up an example here: the building envelope in.

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The r3 district, just using a minimum lot size of 50 by hundred that comes out to.

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If you did a two-story building and use the setbacks, you end up with a building.

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Envelope of 1,800 square feet for a two-story structure, the 2250 square foot.

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Area is the impervious surface total, so it just gives you an idea of what that.

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Building envelope would be if for a minimum lot and the r3. So that's the.

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Structure, that would be the area that you'd be allowed to build on that.

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Ownership requirements: there was some discussion about that again at planning.

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Commission we did talk about ownership requirements, there's a lot of.

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Difficulties associated with who the legal owner is trust and what-have-you.

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So just wanted to point that out for your attention and then lastly, there was.

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A question about number of city units and density- I just have a couple.

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Graphics here, to show you the first one on the left is of the whole city's.

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Jurisdiction, the blue color, is all land, that's non non institutional other than.

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Residential, the yellow is dedicated to single-family, so on the little pie chart.

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You can see about 43% of the city's land area is dedicated to single-family.

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Residential allowed uses, if you just look at area that land that's just.

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Available for residential uses, not the other land and that percentage jumps up.

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To 60% and then there's some numbers on the far right. Looking at the total.

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Acreage of all land, except for institutional and right away.

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Those are acreage numbers so 13,000 for everything, except institutional.

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Residential only have 9400 single-family, residential 7200 or.

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5700 acres, if you break that out to units per acre.

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I gave some numbers there again for all single-family residential you're. Looking.

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At about eighty, nine hundred units comes up to about three units per acre. If you.

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Subtract out the if you include vacant land and other uses that drops down to.

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About two units per acre, if you look at the are three district 2100.

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Single-Family residential units comes out to about five three point: three.

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Units per acre again, if you subtract out the vacant land and other uses on those.

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Lands, it comes down to three units per acre and then the last is an american.

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Community survey estimate from 2017 there's thirty three thousand three.

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Hundred twenty three units in bloomington and there's from attached.

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And detached single-family there's fourteen thousand eight hundred and.

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Fifty six, so I just wanted to provide a little opportunity for some follow up on.

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Those questions and now I'll get into chapter four. This is the chapter dealing.

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With development standards and incentives, mr. robinson, could we just go.

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To council in case there are any questions about the clarifications well,.

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My understanding with the presentation is, I have 20 minutes to present, will.

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Will suspend that for a moment? So, let's, yes, we want to grant mr. robinson an.

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Additional 20 minutes for the chapter, for I think that would be appropriate.

A

I'll just reset the clock. If my my presentations, as I said it's going to be.

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Fairly high-level and brief, so there will be plenty of time for questions so.

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I'd prefer just to forge, forge ahead. Okay, all right, then we will go to.

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Questions after okay, I mean it's the pleasure of let's dispose of these.

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Questions now since oscillator 2, chapter 4, so.

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Yes, that's correct for all conditional use. Yes again, I want to point out that.

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That of people that apply it, we get many people to inquire about things and again.

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Staff provides direction on standards, they need to meet if it's consistent.

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With other approvals and give them direction, oftentimes most people don't.

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Move forward with actually applying for a permanent or a conditional use request.

H

Mr. robinson, the I did think of one other city service that accrues to.

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People in buildings with fewer than five units, and that would be parking permits.

H

In residential neighborhoods, they don't someone in the building larger than the.

H

Four units cannot get a residential parking permit. Isn't that true yeah, I.

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Believe that's correct. I I guess I was thinking more in the parking enforcement.

F

Still enforces those areas, but that's sure, but I mean thinking of that as a.

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Service per se, or a right that accrues to people who are in smaller and plexes.

H

Are smaller? That's all I wanted to say. Okay, thank you thinking any other.

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Questions clarifications I had one we were discussing last night owner.

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Occupancy versus rentals and neighborhoods- and you said there was.

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Data available, is it in the form of it's broken down by neighborhood and or is it.

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Mapped, I we have a spreadsheet and it was based on.

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I believe the homestead exemption and that's something that we can share: okay,.

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Yeah, that would be helpful for me. Okay, all right, so we're still restarting the.

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Clock, well, actually, you don't need your whole time, but we will anyway well. It's.

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Restart the clock and you can use as much as you like there little over 12.

H

Minutes left proceed to chapter 4. Thank you. So, as you can see, I just listed two.

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Categories in in chapter 4, these are all the development standards that have to.

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Be considered when new developments or other activity happens on land.

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Throughout the community, some of its based on different zoning districts, I'm.

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Not going to talk about all these, I just wanted to highlight that these are the.

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Categories within chapter 4, the ones with asterisks I'm going to spend a.

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Little bit of time kind of highlighting and some of the the changes some of the.

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Bigger things as you've noticed, if you looked at the you, do a lot of the.

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Changes have been reorganizing and trying to make it user-friendly so again,.

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That's kind of consistent with what you're, seeing with the chapter for some.

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Of these standards have been separated to help clarify what what's going on.

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There so the first part is applicability. This is a little table, that's included.

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In the you do to help identify which development standards apply, there's kind.

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Of three different buckets that we're looking at a change of use. So when a use.

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Of change abuse happens on a site you can see which development standards on.

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This list would apply for the entire site versus disturbed areas, and then you.

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Have kind of new development in redevelopment situations where, if it's.

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New development everything applies. If it's a redevelopment on a site, then.

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There's a you know: major site plan and minor site plan where it breaks those.

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Out so that it just helps identify some of the standards and how they apply. Some.

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Examples, you might think of a commercial building that does an addition, and this.

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Helps understand which part of the code would apply and not again new.

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Development everything applies in in chapter 4, but this just is a table to.

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Help understand how some of those transitions or.

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Incremental improvements would be implemented. One area I wanted to point.

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Out is accessing connectivity. This is a new section that was helped to improve.

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Decision-Making, it was kind of dispersed throughout the existing. You do so. It.

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Identifies standards for driveways and access, pedestrian and bicycle.

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Circulation in public transit, again their standards there for access and.

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Connectivity and walkability looking at standards for sidewalk connections and.

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That are strengthened, often you're. Looking at connections from the public.

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Street to the entrances of doors and things like that, environmental and.

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Floodplain standards, there are many standards in the environmental state.

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Section looking at steep slopes, sill tation and erosion, drainage, riparian.

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Buffers karst geology and wetlands many of these have been updated to align with.

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Best practices there's some new standards in dealing with tree.

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Production during construction, the floodplain standards have been separated.

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Out as a separate section, these are we're done to be more consistent with.

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Indiana department of natural resources in the model floodplain guidance that.

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They have this section details the regulatory flood data and how we.

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Establish that looking at flood hazard areas and how to reduce flood hazard.

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Reduction and so again that section was pulled out as a separate section to help.

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Clarify some of that language there parking and loading. You know again, one.

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Of the things that we look at at parking is parking minimums and parking maximums.

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This chapter looks at how those are calculated identifies those minimums.

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Which are mostly for residential units uses so again that establishes a minimum.

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Requirement of parking and then in many places in almost all uses, there's a.

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Parking maximum, as you know, oftentimes other communities have oversupply of.

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Parking so we have parking maximums here, looking at accessible parking needs.

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Power adjustments are made to those calculations looking at the location, a.

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Design of where parking is put up looking at loading, drive-thru bicycle.

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Parking as well as the use of parking areas so again, some of the breakouts of.

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Those are looking at parking. Standards for single family residents were removed.

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Were were removed so they're no longer minimum standards, their parking minimum.

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Parking standards for plexes are set for a half a unit per dwelling unit. What.

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Maximum parking standards were updated and simplified and we're looking at.

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Reducing the dimensional spaces so looking at how much area is required for.

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Each parking space, so that's some of the dimensional standards talking about.

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Parking and then we included standards for electric vehicle charging stations.

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One of the things the plan commission did was originally. They were sort of.

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Given they weren't being counted but there's a kind of a break out, I believe.

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It's four spaces doesn't count towards your maximum, and after that it starts.

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Counting towards a 1 /, 1 ratio, site building and design, this area is looking.

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At kind of four categories at mixed-use non-residential, these are things that.

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Are looking at materials, the type of facades? What kind of patterns are being.

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Used on the building, 'is the roofs pitch, 360-degree architecture, your entrances.

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And windows that are used on site planning for your non-residential.

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Developments then you have your residential again, similar categories.

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Looking at materials, minimum coverage foundation, that's just looking at the.

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Facades that the exteriors going down to the foundation from the roof to the.

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Foundation requiring drain rain, gutters and downspouts that there's uniform.

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Architecture and an taemin monotony standards identified some criteria for.

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Refuse and recycling containers it's also important to point out the.

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Neighborhood transition standards- and this has been talked about several times.

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Again, when you're looking at some of the neighborhoods that are adjacent to.

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Higher or more intense uses, there's increased setbacks.

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In lower building heights for those higher intense uses, when their adjacent.

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To neighborhood areas so again it provides a nice buffer for that and then.

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Again, we're carrying forward projects that are abutting historic buildings.

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There is again guidelines on how to orient and mass that structure adjacent.

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To historic buildings incentives, this is one of the biggest changes in the you do.

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And I think that I'm gonna spend a little bit more time talking about the.

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Incentives, as you know, one of the main points of the you do is trying to.

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Address, affordable housing, the incentive section does allow for incentives for.

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Affordable housing, one is one that we've carried forward, is waiver of fees. It's.

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Very minimal, fairly minimal, but that's something that is again an incentive.

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That we offer for affordable housing when you're looking at affordable.

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Housing it's available through either residential non residential or student.

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Housing projects there's a couple tears and how that is done.

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Tier one, it's 15% of the units need to be 15% of the bless you 15% of the units.

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Need to be affordable at a rate of 120 percent of annual median income, tier 2 7.

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1/2 percent of the units need to be less than 120 percent annual median income.

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And 7 half percent have to be below 80 percent of annual median income. What do.

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You get out of those affordability requirements, you get reduced bulk.

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Standards to again allow for some additional units to put in at tier one.

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You'll get 12 feet of additional height allowed and tier 2, which is a bigger.

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Incentive you get 24 feet or one-story and respectively, two storeys as an.

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Incentive there's location requirements so.

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Obviously, the priority is that we want portable units to be within the project.

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There is a criteria or an allowance that these could be within a thousand feet of.

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The project that they could be incorporated into a you know nearby site.

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And there is also a payment and lieu option. That's important to consider.

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Especially for non-residential uses to give that opportunity so that, if a large.

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Employer were to move in town there's a way to help offset the impacts that they.

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Might have on affordable housing so that there's an opportunity for contributing.

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For potential employees there's sustainable development standards.

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Incentives: it's important to note that you can't double dip. If you do both the.

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Affordable housing and the sustainable development, if you do the sustainable.

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Development you're only allowed to do a tier one and the affordability. If you.

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Choose to do both, but there are two options: if you do enter into the.

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Sustainable development incentive option one there's a six criteria and if you.

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Choose to meet four of those criteria. You know, such as solar panels and other.

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Things you get a 12-foot height bonus option. Two. If you choose to enter in one.

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Of several certification programs, you can also use that as an option to get an.

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Additional height bonus- and that is all that I have- I know that was fast, but.

F

Again, I understand that there's a lot of material in chapter four and I wanted to.

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Give more opportunity for questions and I'd be happy to answer those makes miss.

A

Around even with questions from council on chapter four council member mr.

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Bowman, the height issue that you just talked about, I think you said, there's a.

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24 foot maximum 12 right: you can only get up to 24 total. If you, if you do the.

F

Tier 2 and the affordability just by itself. Yes,.

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You can get 24, there is a, I believe there. If you do the sustainability you.

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Can get a half floor on that on top of that, so it's a fee. I have to look at the.

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Exact footage, but there they have to have a reduced step back in footprint on.

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That additional thing, if they were to do that, okay and then on page 145 about.

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Back out parking says, generally, all on-site vehicle areas shall be.

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Designated to avoid the need for vehicles to back onto public streets when exiting parking spaces does that apply across the board? Is that is that a.

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Ban on pulling parking, what page number was that 145 145.

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I

F

I think what you're.

A

It's just yeah, it's intended for commercial properties so that you're not.

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Backing out onto the sidewalk and street so so angle park, this is this is on.

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Private property- we're not talking about on-site on street parking.

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This is on-site parking that they cannot back out and do the public right away.

F

Okay, you know it's just just that. Just caught my eye on page 152 materials for.

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Mixed-Use and non-residential.

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Can we keep going? I forget how this works. Okay, I was slow.

I

Question was makes you snot in residential. These can be primary.

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Building materials included is efense and transparent glass. Does that mean.

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That the entire structure could be efis or the entire structure could be.

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Transparent glass and my follow-up is what happened to primary and secondary.

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Materials: yes, they, yes, so they could a primary building material. It's going to.

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Be 20% or more of a facade, so, yes, they could be used for the entirety unless.

J

There are other pattern requirements that would have to be worked in somehow.

J

So like an entirely glass building would probably not be able to meet the other.

J

Requirements, council, member sandberg, thank you. My question has to do with the.

K

Payment in lieu and that begins on page 201, let's move to page 202 the section b.

K

During plan commission, we made a few tweaks to the to those serious concerns.

K

That were raised about how this particular mechanism is calculated.

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Tracked accounted for, and there was some call that city council itself be the.

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Ones that set this policy or enacted and and the decision was made that states.

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The provision of this section shall not become effective until the city adopts.

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Administrative procedures for calculating, so I wanted to give you as.

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The staff an opportunity, maybe kind of address that a little bit and talk about.

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What the city is doing in terms of being as transparent as possible, with respect.

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To the tracking calculating formulas that go into the payment in lieu.

K

And again, at one of the talking here at listening sessions that I attended today,.

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Amy haas our consultant who's walking into this said several, and there been a.

K

Couple of listening sessions already this continues to be brought up. This.

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Pay-To-Play or that it's somehow a bribe or- and so I just want to give you an.

K

Opportunity to address what mechanisms are currently in place. Well, I believe, if.

F

You this wouldn't even be effective until that would be done. You know so, yes,.

F

We're working hard on doing that, and one of the things that the planning.

F

Commission included in this, as you can see some of the methodology that we we.

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Would be looking at you know the fund currently now housing, the neighborhood.

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Development reports, the city council, on how that money is appropriated and spent.

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Each other year we continue to support that and get that out. The city has a.

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Website identifying where those projects are receiving money, as far as the.

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Administrative function of how those rates are calculated again, we've worked.

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On the past couple years in negotiating planned unit, development saw on those.

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Voluntary contributions and have a pretty good understanding on what things.

F

To consider they're listed in this list here, looking at you know, hud values.

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Annual median income and those sort of things, there's utility rates and other things that are factored into, that calculation.

F

So you know once the you do is adopted: we fully expect to provide that.

F

Information and have it out there to review, I mean we. We have to do that in.

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Order to be in order for the payment in lieu to be effective anyway or affected.

F

Once it's adopted so yeah, that's that's something that we've been continually.

F

Working on and we'd be happy to share that thanks.

A

Come evelyn. Yes, I had a couple of questions. One was: how do you calculate.

H

Payment in lieu when a site won't have housing on it. I mean I didn't quite.

H

Follow how or like if the affordable housing wasn't on the site? How would.

H

Payment in lieu be calculated so again the the calculation would be based on.

F

15% of the units and then that's the the methodology, is how that rate would be.

F

Established if you're talking about the payment in lieu, if it wasn't yeah, I mean.

H

If you go back to the slide, where we.

H

Here we go so location within a thousand feet or payment in lieu option, so I mean.

H

What would the payment be, how I don't quite fathom how that will be calculated.

F

Again, it's looking at the total number of units that are on the site and.

F

Looking at the annual median income looking at things, such as rental rates,.

F

Utility rates ongoing rates from hud that those are updated regularly and.

F

That's a calculation that that would be shared with you know, once we get to that.

F

Point here that those rates would be clearly displayed on how those are.

F

Calculated, do you see why I'm confused by it, because I'm thinking? Okay, so is it.

H

That the amount that you would have saved from putting utilities in or I.

H

Just don't understand the point it's based on the number of units you know.

F

The the affordability is 15 percent of the units, so whatever that unit is it's.

F

The calculations based on that 15 percent- okay, it's based on it the sudden.

H

It was 15% of they have to contribute 15 percent of the entire value of the.

H

Building, no, could you introduce yourself director of planning and transporting.

H

High, they don't have to they, don't they don't have to so the payment in lieu.

L

We're actually still working on that to get that into a written policy. It's.

L

Because of the different factors that change we have it, we just don't have it.

L

Written yet, but we are working on that when the last project that came through.

L

The c c d g yeah project that was 15% of the beds times twenty thousand dollars.

L

Per bed is my understanding. Okay, so is how they came up with okay. So just my.

L

Time, cuz I've got ten seconds here. The twenty thousand dollars seems like an.

H

Arbitrary number that it sounds like you're working on a less arbitrary.

H

Formula, but if it's not in writing yet right we're dealing with the writing of.

H

The you do right now. Aren't we yes I'll talk about of the next round.

H

Thank you. Thank you. Come summer months min yes, I have some questions about.

D

Portions that that may encourage or discourage solar panels and growing your.

D

Own food, so on page 92 and I'm going by the pdf pages. So let me see what page is.

D

That and the actual 74 is section about soil quality. Is this only if the food is.

D

Going to be sold to the public that they have to get their soil tested and all.

D

That I mean, if somebody just wants to plant tomatoes in their yard, do they.

D

Have to go through all this, are you asking a question about chapter 3? No, is.

D

That chapter 3, I don't think so. You said page 72, oh I'm! So sorry.

D

That's chapter 3 I'll, be happy to answer that, but you don't know I thought it was.

D

Chapter 4, you know the city wouldn't necessarily require that, for if my.

F

Understanding of your question is, but you know if you were to sell those.

F

Produce there would be an aspect that make sure the soil is of good.

F

That's something that we wouldn't necessarily regulate on that. If I.

F

Understand your question: well, but you're saying food products may be grown in.

D

Soil native to the site, if the applicant can provide documentation that these.

D

Standards are followed, so if I want to plant lettuce in my yard, I have to give.

D

A soil samples get it tested and go to the city, and all that this is how I read.

D

This, if you were gonna, sell it, that's the well, then that should be put in here.

D

That, if you're gonna sell it, you have to do this well I'll have to follow up with.

F

You on that okay question, pologize that I went back too far in my it might text.

D

I do have a couple questions about screening, page 195 of the pdf, so that's.

D

Page 177, so um there are a couple things here. First of all, the ground mounted.

D

Mechanical equipment, let her be a small roman numeral. Three screening of solar.

D

Equipment is not required when it can be clearly demonstrated that there were.

D

Parts screening would reduce efficiency or effectiveness of the solar energy.

D

I just think screening adds to cost and if somebody has a ground display, I want.

D

To allow that I don't want to have more hurdles, so it can. We look at this again.

D

Because this seems like an extra hurdle that somebody would have to build a.

D

Fence around their solar display yeah, it's there, I'm sorry, that's a question.

D

Whether that was considered kind of interesting, we did receive feedback that.

J

Some people don't want to see their neighbors ground and solar arrays, and so.

J

I think that that was put in there as a way for that for it to be included, but.

J

Not required if it was obviously gonna make your system not work properly, but.

J

Yes, we would be open to taking it out yep. Thank you.

A

Further first-run questions, yes, I'll, ask I've got a couple. Mr. robinson, hamid.

A

What is the longevity of the affordable housing that would receive those those.

A

Incentives, permanent meaning I mean in perpetuity and perpetuity okay, I and I.

A

Had a question about landscaping, buffering and fences, the list of species.

A

That we have is a good one, probably derive this. These are plant.

A

Species ones that are considered invasive non invasive, but not permitted.

A

Ones that are desired, etc. Those are from the dnr is that right or where was that.

A

Derived it was derived from. We had got feedback from the tree commission. We got.

F

Feedback from environmental commission staff reviewed, ok plant list so yeah it.

F

Was a collection of feedback from people and I know there's been some issues in.

A

The past, with the implementation of this, that these say initially the desired.

A

Species are put in but later replaced. How long do we in do we investigate how.

A

Long do we inspect. I mentioned that over to jackie scheme, ok, jackie scanlon, again.

J

Well, the idea is, and it says, encode misses and current codis. Well, you know.

J

That they have to be in there in perpetuity, so we are currently in our development services, division working on a long-term inspection, so that is not.

J

Something that has happened very reliably over time, but we are working.

J

Toward that I know senior environmental planner, linda thompson's, working with a.

J

Spea, fellow on catching up on some of the older site plans we have and then.

J

We'll go from there, but moving forward will be will be inspecting sites that.

J

Were currently issuing recommendations for occupancy on.

J

A regular, I would say, we're gonna try to do a yearly basis, yearly basis, yeah.

A

So they have to maintain those, yes, it is required and but right now we only see.

J

Those in an enforcement situation, if someone were to complain about it or.

J

Something were to happen at a site, that's when we would remind them that they need to keep it up. Okay, okay, and while I'm on this, a developer could.

A

Substitute plants for one another, is there any sort of so say what I'm.

A

Concerned about is like a monoculture all of all one species of tree as.

A

Opposed to sure, so I believe that I believe that there is a maximum.

J

Percentage per per species and built in currently so I can verify that, but I'm.

J

Pretty sure that that's still in there- and that is how we try to regulate that.

J

Great okay, all right we're on to second round question: oh.

A

Councilman granger, thank you. I know we can't regulate what greenhouses and what.

M

They sell will there be any way that we could like at least let them know that.

M

We do have this list that we're not permitting white mulberry autumn. All of.

M

Russian elements to let them yes, so, yes, we are hopeful and that's part of the.

J

Plan so we're we have kind of are kind of revamping our small enforcement.

J

Two-Person team, but landscaping is something that we've been focusing on.

J

And yes, we plan once the you do is approved to do like a outreach to the.

J

Local, at least you know the local regional, to see we often contact them.

J

When we find a place, it has a lot of one thing that we would not prefer. We've.

J

Made we have called around to see you are you selling these in bulk kind of in.

J

Working with them, so that's the plan is to let them know once it's approved kind.

J

Of yeah, okay, so so landscape companies and you know, do-it-yourself sort of yep.

M

Okay, thank you. Their first-round questions, seeing none.

A

We'll go to second around now counselor mr. baum, I think was first.

A

Right so here's a for instance, someone is going to put a duplex or triplex.

I

In a core, neighborhood and neighbors show up and say our peculiar condition.

I

Is that there is not enough hour off street parking and the new parking.

I

That's going to be associated with the triplex is going to be a hardship for my.

I

Neighborhood, however, 0.5 spaces per unit is all.

I

That's required so for a triplex of nine bedrooms. You have one and a half parking.

I

Spaces with that in the conditional use hearing with that overrule the concern.

I

Of the neighborhood, because they've met the criteria. No, so I think this will be.

J

A jog of everyone's memory, but about two years ago, when you approved the ad use, I.

J

Know that we went you went through, what does the conditional you? What are the.

J

Requirements for conditional use- and one of them is that you're not negatively.

J

Affecting the neighborhood, so the the bca would be able to weigh that, and even.

J

Though they are meeting the requirements, if they felt that it was going to have a.

J

Detrimental effect on the neighborhood, then they could in fact, to choose to.

J

Deny the conditional use request? Okay, thank you. Comes merukimon smith,.

A

Yeah, I have a question about the floodplain standards, so this is page 117.

D

In the document 135 in the feed pdf, so the general standards here talk about.

D

New construction, new construction and substantial improvements shall be.

D

Anchored to prevent floatation collapse or lateral movement of the structure, but.

D

Or why do we, even? Why would we even allow new construction in a floodplain.

D

You know it doesn't make sense to allow that, especially with climate change. It's.

D

Going to be much more frequent that such structures would be flooded so sure, so I.

J

Think that that's a valid question, of course.

J

This this language, this part of our flood, plain language, I believe, is.

J

Modeled off of the state and we were trying, we had been asked and we're.

J

Trying they're trying to have municipalities have similar regulations.

J

Across municipalities- and so they have a model ordinance, so they do recommend.

J

That you allow construction if it meets certain requirements. You know building.

J

Above a certain level, I I don't know I would have to defer to legal, but I don't.

J

Think that we are, you know, necessarily obligated to do that in every situation.

J

But that is where it kind of comes from that's pretty typical in zoning codes.

J

That it is allowed, but with certain restrictions, so that if there were to be.

J

A flood event that the idea would be that it. You know the water would still.

J

Be able to get through it would be raised above the hundred year, flood.

J

Plain level and there have other development requirements, but yes, I don't.

J

Think that's something that you have to leave in, but again I would leave that.

J

I'm not positive on that. Mr. brooker, do you have anything to add from a legal.

D

Perspective I'd have to do some research, so I can certainly get back to you on it.

G

Yeah, I would appreciate that thanks. Do you have any other questions sure is.

D

Gravel considered an improved surface, what is gravel considered? It counts.

J

Against your impervious surface, it's not grass, it's the opposite! It's not! It.

J

Counts as pervious correct, because it has been shown repeatedly over time that.

J

And that as it compacts over time that it be, it starts to function in a some.

J

Way as regular asphalt wood as far as water, runoff and grabbing the you know,.

J

Grabbing the water and taking it off it stops seeping through over time. So we.

J

Always count it as as impervious thank you councillor, valen yeah. I wanted to.

H

Ask about the difference in affordable housing of in a project between height.

H

And mass, so if somebody wanted to build on a lot say the size of the one next to.

H

The cvs on kirkwood, but they wanted it to all, be affordable housing. What kind.

H

Of a limit would there be on its height; in other words, this formula seems to.

H

Reward sort of the the length of a building, but I mean, if you wanted dense.

H

Housing in the center of town and it was all affordable. I mean that that's I'm.

H

Completely spitballing no-one's proposing this, but with the limit just.

H

Be two additional stories if they wanted to do a massive amount of affordable.

H

Housing yeah. In your scenario, these are minimum standards of affordability. So, if.

F

They wanted to do a hundred percent affordable. They would still get those.

F

Same that's the only credit that they would get yeah. Okay,.

H

Thank you councilman, any other questions. Council member. If.

A

There is known I'd like to actually ask one: I meant two in terms of the.

A

Affordable housing counselor mr. bowman, I in the last you do put in some.

A

Incentives they weren't used that we were. There was a sort of an.

A

Approximation we thought it would be attractive. Apparently it wasn't. How do.

A

You derive those, is that is it you know, those incentives. Are they proven to work.

A

In other words, the consultant: do they have evidence? Is this evidence-based? Yes,.

F

Yes, it is evidence-based. They've worked in communities that have adopted these.

F

There's generally arranged from my understanding of 10 to 20 percent.

F

Requirements kind of depends on your market conditions. You have to make the.

F

Incentive enough to offset the cost and the housing cost.

F

Is the real cost? So there has to be enough incentive there to offset the.

F

Cost to provide that housing at a lower price- okay, so these are proven other.

A

Council questions: we have a few minutes left.

A

Councillor mr bond last year, one was at second in highland. One was at euclid now.

I

Just recently- and they were all about the secondary facade- and you know in our.

I

Case in the neighborhood, we supported that they used the transparent fence.

I

Above the forefoot on that secondary facade and in the other one they they.

I

Weren't allowed to bring it up to the property line and for the life of me, I.

I

Still can't understand why those were both not possible and follow-up would be.

I

How can we change the language? Because those were both in the interest of the.

I

Homeowner one had a dog one had a peculiar condition of screening their.

I

Their yard, but and and in all intents of that amendment, where we had transparency.

I

So he could have a short fence on the secondary facade, with open lattice. Above.

I

I thought we had solved that problem, but in the both of these cases the fences.

I

Weren't allowed to be built, and I think, there's something fundamentally wrong.

I

With one little piece of this fence ordinance and I'd like, if you can't.

I

Answer now, I'd like you to come back, we ought to may be out of talk because I I.

I

Know, none of us wanted to say no to these people, but we kind of had to.

I

That's what I would like to figure out how we could fix them.

I

We're about yeah, there may be other options than what was written sure and I.

I

Had a follow-up question that has nothing to with fences, but you know 90%.

I

Of historic buildings are contributing, so this his budding historic buildings.

I

That would even apply to the downtown abutting historic buildings excludes.

I

Contributing buildings, I think that may have been an oversight. Where are you.

J

Looking sorry, I'm on projects abutting two historic buildings which is 200 for.

I

705 ii, my page 156 and sorry: what's your question, did you mean to leave out.

I

Contributing buildings- and he realized that europe not not relating to 90.

I

Percent of all historic property, because contributing means it's an important.

I

Piece of a form, but it isn't a standalone historic property sure. Yes, I.

J

Mean I think that change was made. Let me look at the current code because I think.

J

Currently, it's just what, if it's listed at all, but I don't think we feel.

J

Strongly strongly one way or another I mean I think it's okay to leave it as.

J

Contributing, I think what has happened in the past and we could look at the.

J

Record, but I think sometimes when they're, when they are contributing, they.

J

Receive a deep, they have received deviations, and so it's mostly the.

J

Outstanding and the notable that that it's that it has been used for, I think.

J

Was part of the reason that that was changed, but I can look into that and let.

J

You know, oh, I can say it a different way. I think outstanding and notable because.

J

They're, the higher rated the focus was to make sure that those that that we.

J

Kept in something to protect the site line of those, but yes, I understand your.

J

Point- and we don't look at that thanks any other council questions, we have.

A

About two minutes remaining.

A

Seeing none councilmember stir bump yeah. I can't remember if it was in this area.

I

Or another, but it seemed that there was an elimination of required neighborhood.

I

Meetings- and I can't remember if that was for conditional use or for another.

I

Proposal but you know neighborhoods had become accustomed to having someone be.

I

Asked to meet with the neighbors and it seemed that that checklist was left.

I

Blank sure, so we can check on that. I think that might be in chapter six: okay,.

I

But I wasn't sure we can check. Yes, it's still required for pud s. I know and then.

J

We'll check because the practice is that we always if something's going to.

J

Hearing officer or board of zoning appeals always have them contact the.

J

Neighborhood association and I don't actually think that's codified currently.

J

But but we'll check and make sure that goes in there yeah with a minute.

A

Remaining any other questions from council before we go to the public. Okay.

A

We now finish questions from council on chapter four. If the public has any.

A

Comment please step forward state. Your name sign in, and this is on.

A

Chapter four: the video hi kate rosenberger. I wanted to talk a little.

E

Bit about our parking minimums and curb cuts today from chapter four, so.

E

Basically, I'm actually just gonna read a little bit from walkable city rules by.

E

Jeff speck, who you know, speaks at cnu. All the time has wrote the book also.

E

Suburban nation and all that good stuff, I I mean I'd really like to see us look.

E

At eliminating our minimum parking requirements and spec rights here, the.

E

Onsite parking requirement is probably the single greatest killer of urbanism.

E

In the united states it prevents the renovation of old buildings since.

E

There's inadequate room on their sites for new parking. It encourages the.

E

Construction of anti pedestrian building types in which the building sits behind.

E

Or hovering above a parking lot, it eliminates street life since everyone.

E

Parks immediately adjacent other the nation and has no real reason to use.

E

A sidewalk and finally, it results in a low density of development that can keep.

E

The downtown from achieving critical mass all told there's nothing to be said.

E

In favor of on-site parking requirements and cities that wish to be pedestrian.

E

Friendly and fully developed should eliminate this ordinance immediately and.

E

Provide a public parking and carefully located municipal garages and lots which.

E

We are doing so. Many cities have eliminated on-site parking in their.

E

Downtown's and many are considering it. The expert on this is, of course, shoop.

E

Who wrote the high cost of free parking and he says removing off street parking.

E

Requirements will not eliminate off off street parking, but will instead.

E

Stimulate an active commercial market for it, developers will always meet the.

E

Market, their financing usually requires parking anyway, but different developers.

E

Should be able to meet different markets and cities shouldn't get in the way of.

E

One-Size-Fits-All, auto centric requirement, so I think that's pretty.

E

Interesting to consider, or at least look at our parking minimums again here and.

E

Then a little bit about curb cuts, I mean we are in a climate crisis, of course, so.

E

Trying to cut down on a curb cuts, pun intended is, I think, pretty useful spec.

E

Here says, every driveway that crosses a sidewalk presents a potential danger to.

E

People walking and biking who may be hit by a vehicle crossing their path. This.

E

Danger makes the sidewalk feel less safe and comfortable comfortable, a feeling.

E

That is reinforced by the tilt of the driveway skirt and the missing curb.

E

Conditionally curb cuts eliminate on street parking that would otherwise.

E

Protect the sidewalk edge resulting in a visual widening of the street that.

E

Encourages illegal speeds, new curb cuts should never be allowed for any use. If.

E

The property is adjacent to a public alley which our downtown has that.

E

Provides alternative access when they are allowed, they should be no more than.

E

A 10 10 feet per lane, so 20 feet across and right now in the you do. Ours is 34.

E

Feet so it's just taking that from the previous you do and I think if we don't.

E

Want to disallow them, we could at least look at narrowing them if anyone wants to borrow this book, you may thank you for your.

A

Comment make sure you remember to sign in peter dorfman before I get into my.

N

Question I just want to ask the parliamentarian the procedure for this. I.

N

Want to ask a question: can I ask a question and then donate back the rest.

N

Of my three minutes for you to answer it: well, we don't take questions, but we.

A

Might entertain an answer when we come back to comments so we're not going to.

A

To have an exchange okay, but you may ask a question and we won't. I ask the.

N

Question and then sit down so councilman's stir bomb raised an.

N

Interesting question about neighborhood objections to conditional use.

N

Applications that are within compliance if a neighbor has an objection, feels.

N

That there is a hardship being posed by this compliant use application. Would it.

N

Be useful to codify what kind of hardship could be claimed, what kind of.

N

Application could be made with the you do be a place to codify it, or is there.

N

Some other document or ordinance that would be a good place for that. That's my.

N

Question is there a place to codify the way to object to a conditional use.

N

Application, that is in compliance. Thank you.

H

You speak so that we can show anderson. I live on the near west side and the.

O

Streets are narrow there. At this point, people are parked on both sides. Parking.

O

Is crowded I just yesterday was driving toward town and there was a school bus.

O

And the school bus could not get packed, there was no way for a car going east to.

O

Allow for a school bus going west, so there was a whole backing up kind of.

O

Situation, that was, you know, a little annoying with the school bus, but if it.

O

Were you know the a fire engine trying to get to a fire? I don't know how they.

O

Would get there that's in our current situation right now on the near west,.

O

Side on 6th and 7th street the streets are narrow if there are, if there's no.

O

Off street parking allowed with any new buildings that come in, I don't know it.

O

Just seems like it's not going to be safe.

O

Part cars are parked along the along. Both sides of the street children are.

O

Playing in the yards, it seems like it's, someone should take into account in.

O

Terms of when you encourage density, please also encourage the safety of the.

O

Neighborhood residents and the you know, what's going to be best for city.

O

Services both in terms of school buses and emergency services. Thank you thank.

A

B

Hygiene simonian, and I also have a question. I wonder if we could put up the.

B

Incentives on the overhead again turn that on yeah, okay, my question is about.

B

The affordable housing incentives- it was, if I understand this, it was stated that.

B

Those agreements are valid in perpetuity. What I'd like to get clarification on is.

B

Does that in perpetuity hold, if there's a transfer of ownership of the building.

B

Thank you. Thank you. Andrew gunther, chair of the bloomington environmental.

P

Commission I just want to first of all thank you all for again doing the ceo.

P

Meetings, I know they can be quite the effort. I wanted to state that the.

P

Environmental commission, we came over a month now ago to let you know that we.

P

Had nearly a hundred amendments and comments we wanted to see enact in the you do we then move forward to asking staff to draft those changes we recently.

P

Received the drafts back in the environmental commission decide not to.

P

Move forward, those amendments that were drafted by staff will be drafting our.

P

Amendments by ourselves this weekend and then we'll be inviting council members.

P

To come, meet with us and senior environmental planner linda thompson to.

P

Sponsor amendments that they see fit, so I want to just publicly state that we.

P

Will be inviting council for those meetings? I encourage any council members.

P

That wish to attend and sponsored environmental commission amendments to.

P

Attend those meetings and expect that email within the week. Thank you. Thank.

A

You for that invitation hi. My name is sandra clothier. I live on the near west.

Q

Side, I have it just a couple of questions. I'm looking at the incentives.

Q

And I'm wondering if someone added on to their home and wanted to build an.

Q

Additional two units, and one of those is affordable housing. Does that mean that.

Q

That house would be allowed to have that extra 24 feet and I'm also asking that.

Q

If somebody had an ad and it was affordable, how does that.

Q

Impact the extra height or other considerations. Secondly, I'd also request.

Q

That when we talk about affordable housing, we talked specifically about.

Q

What we're talking about when we talk about affordable housing, for instance,.

Q

The b-line heights, which has just been built, has one two item not sure three or.

Q

Four, I'm not sure how many bedrooms they have a one-bedroom is over $600 two.

Q

Bedroom is over $800. I think that it is really important as we move forward on.

Q

These deliberations that we understand what we talk about when we talk about.

Q

Affordability, if we were this is fine for workforce housing. It does meet that.

Q

Criteria, it does not meet criteria for low income folks, it does not have that's.

Q

Not an affordable amount for someone to pay if they are making less than maybe.

Q

Say: fifteen twenty thousand dollars a year they're not going to be able to.

Q

Afford any of that, additionally, a two-bedroom, we assume I mean that's fine.

Q

Students or singles who are pairing together and are each able to pay an.

Q

Amount towards that, that's fine, but if we're talking families and we.

Q

Talk 800 dollars for a family of a single parent and a child, or we say.

Q

Maybe the family is larger, three or four people in the family. Where is.

Q

Affordability- and I think that we just easily gloss over these- these numbers or.

Q

These ideas, without really clarifying what we're talking about and I think.

Q

That is so critical when we talk about building affordability into situations.

Q

And, and as a further comment when we're talking about ten units and we're.

Q

Talking about one unit being affordable and getting an extra ten feet, I think.

Q

That's an awfully huge return on one apartment being affordable.

Q

I just think we need to really always question these things and make sure that.

Q

What we're approving is something we really intend to approve. Thank you. Thank.

A

You for your comment, further comment from the public: okay, we're back to.

A

Council, then, for another round of questions who would like to begin.

A

Councilmember valen, okay, I heard a number of questions I think we'll get to.

H

Them all at some point. One thing I'd like to know is: can we have a brief.

H

Review of what the different levels of affordability are, one of the the is are.

H

The terms mentioned and I went searching for it through the new draft and I.

H

Couldn't find 36 to 80 percent? Are they in here somewhere.

H

Anybody, I'm sorry, can you repeat the question you're, you don't know where.

H

Other words closed, they were talking about, you know. What's what defines.

H

Affordability, we've got workforce housing at above 80% ami. What do we call.

H

There's like there's levels below that right that are technically called.

H

Affordable, can we review those briefly, so the the actual rates are not in the.

L

You do because those change annually I can respond to the beam line heights.

L

Question I don't know what the rents are, but I do know that that's a tax credit.

L

Project so that has federal dollars, so the rents that are charged are what.

L

Would have been approved by hud to be able to charge to charge so up. But I.

L

Don't know what the specific right well I mean. I know that we've talked about.

H

The rates change every year, but there's still sort of standards like 30% of ami.

H

Is extremely low income and below yeah below below 60% is extremely low. Income.

L

Okay with sorry that there were I've, seen standards at below 80 below 50 or.

H

60 below 30 and they each have a different name, low, very low, extremely.

H

Low, it might know, yours are correct and, and those typically go with the home.

L

Program, which is a federal funding program that bloomington gets home.

L

Dollars, okay. Well, I thank you. I'd like to get that list sometime.

H

You know so that we at least know we're talking about, but I take it that the.

H

Projects were concerned about are mostly, if workforce housing between well, I mean.

H

So 80% am I considered to be low income.

L

80% yeah below 80% is low income and below.

H

120 is work force between 80 and 120, okay, yes, the other question briefly is.

H

Mr. dorfman's question on conditional youths objections.

H

Is there uh do you have an answer for him.

H

Thank you. I don't have an answer. I'm sorry. I was gonna follow up on your.

F

Other question well good: do that dinner cuz, I'm almost out of time, so.

F

Affordability, I think the reason why reason? Why we're targeting these? Because.

F

These are affordable price ranges that are not typically eligible for federal.

F

Funding dollars so, when you're looking at home they're targeting those lower.

F

Income brackets, so that's why these ranges are being targeted as incentives.

F

Your other question about criteria. There is criteria in chapter six. We can get.

F

Into that, but generally there's criteria about consistency with the comprehensive.

F

Plan and those broader guidance, I'm content with chapter six we'll take it.

H

Up next week, thank you, councilmember stir bomb.

L

My understanding is that it's $48,500 for a family of four. I don't. I don't.

L

Know I don't have that I can find out.

D

Thank you was there a recent project that had a.

I

Rent that you can recall that was in that category I I can't answer that.

L

Because I can't answer that question, I'm sorry, okay, but I I will find out for you.

L

Yeah, that's great, very great, so the quest other question.

I

Is on this is development standards, incentives, variations in texture, color.

I

Elements shall repeat vertically a minimum of every 30 feet. There are.

I

Incredible historic properties that do not do this, and sometimes this results.

I

In checkerboard design of large buildings can an architect get a waiver.

I

From this or is, does he have to design with these with the handcuffs of these.

I

Rules of it has to go up and down a little bit, it has to have different.

I

Materials and change the color, and do you know about that because it seems.

I

That it ties the hands of an architect.

J

But yes, I do think that under the new you do, I think they would be obliged to.

J

Do that, but I will check, I mean you're talking about like how, under the current rules plan commission does the deviations and that's how sometimes that.

J

Gets changed? No, they are my that for you well seen with that, I know yeah.

I

I think I would like to see a way to allow that not to be the dictating.

I

Design driving the design. Thank you. Thank you. Councilmember piedmont, smith,.

D

Yes, I wanted to take up this question raised by a member of the public about.

D

Driveway ruit's and page 143 is where this is addressed. It letter b12, says in.

D

The r3 zoning district, the maximum width of a drive, will be 18 feet. Why is this.

D

Not applied to the other residential districts. Well, it's a carryover from the.

J

Current code, where it only applies in the rc currently they had, they have the.

J

Rs has a different as a different standard, so whenever the you do was.

J

Approved last time, the focus I apparently I think I mean just from.

J

Working with it was on minimizing the street new street cuts in the rc zoning.

J

Districts, and so that was carried forward to the r3, do you see any problem.

D

With applying that to all the residential districts rather than 24,.

D

Feet, no, I don't personally, okay, okay great! So then I have another question.

D

About the windows and open space requirements, on the first floor that we.

D

See in a lot of the downtown area, is there anything in this new you do that.

D

Would prevent a situation like we see at urban station next to the chocolate.

D

Mousse, where there's it was supposed to be open area, but it's kind of.

D

Translucent, glass and behind it there just stairs, and it really does not add.

D

Anything to pedestrian value at the street level, yes, and no, this kind of.

J

Goes, I think, to mister mister, stir bombs, question that I will verify. I think, a.

J

Lot of those buildings that we have that had that, and we have those over town.

J

Where it's kind of like the faux first-floor windows were approved via.

J

The deviation process that it was kind of you know trying to go, go toward.

J

Giving that pedestrian interest, or just not having it be a blank wall, I'm not.

J

Certain how that carries over I just off the top of my head, I'm not certain how.

J

That carries over to the new scott might know. I think another point that the you.

F

Do is doing is loosening some of the first floor, commercial requirement and.

F

That's some of the issues that I think we're seeing on some of those projects.

F

So there's still areas where it's required for non-residential on the.

F

First floor, but you can have like a twenty foot setback for residences on.

F

The first floor, so that might be able to address some of those kind of weird.

F

Design things that developers are trying to do with that so because we've, the new.

D

Document decreases the area where it's required to have commercial on the.

D

Ground floor, if there's residential on the ground floor in the downtown are.

D

They required open space. It's it's made it more flexible. So it's not as strict.

F

To have non-residential just on the first floor so that might help address.

F

Some of the design, architectural design aspects.

F

Well, if miss gamelin could get back to me. Yes, we will on that. Thank you.

D

Councilmember granger, thank you. I'm I'm questioning the whole floodplain section.

M

I really I mean not questioning the whole thing, so this is a change from.

M

What has been so now we are allowed to build in a floodplain if we are a.

M

Residential facility is that correct, don't believe it's a change.

J

I'm sorry we've gone back and forth with this very many times during this. Let me.

J

Check on that briefly, if you have another, you have another question: no, we.

M

Can come back to that? Thank you. Let's move on to councilmember sandburg.

A

And then return, I was just reminded when I ran into phil stafford out in the.

K

Hallway, before this meeting with incentives is, was there ever any.

K

Discussion about universal designs being part of that maybe package of things.

K

That builders could do in order to accommodate again our populations, who.

K

Are needing first floor and designs of their apartments that accommodate.

K

Wheelchairs etc. Yeah there there were things that we discussed with the.

F

Consultant with that, the challenge with universe, a lot of the universal design.

F

Design standards apply through building codes and that's stuff that we typically.

F

Don't review and enforce so we, you know the standards, our site planning.

F

Orientation, building height setbacks generally, the universal design, is.

F

Looking at doorway widths and countertop heights and minimum thresholds to get.

F

Inside the property, so those are get to be a little bit challenging to implement.

F

With a zoning code or ordinance so if that could not be considered as part of.

K

An incentive requirement: is there any language in in this document that.

K

Addresses a real desire on behalf of people with disabilities for better.

K

Universal designs in our new, I believe that there is some requirements for.

F

Accessibility- and I have to refresh my memory where that is, I do know what the.

F

Incentives all the affordable units have to be the same flavor as the regular.

F

Units, so they have to, you know, match the same type of amenities. They have to look.

F

The same, they can't be of a lesser quality, okay and then, while I still have a little bit of time in answer to the.

K

Question about the perpetuity and affordable housing. What is the answer to.

K

That that if the building is sold, that still is the case right or that's. That's.

F

Correct, that's correct! Okay! Mr. scanlan, do you have an answer yeah? I do.

J

Okay, sorry, so in the current iteration of the code, now you would have to get a.

J

Variance to do that, so the state regulation is the two foot above the.

J

100-Year flood elevation and that we would be adding that in we would be.

J

Leaving in our, we have currently additional development standards, certain.

J

Permitted and conditional uses outside of buildings that we have in the code.

J

Now that that our carry-forward, you see in the proposed floodplain as well so.

J

Yes, it would be less restrictive in some. Yes, it's less restrictive. That's what I.

M

Wanted to know, thank you. You're welcome, further questions.

A

Merv, oh well, let me ask one: then: let's see what was remaining from well, there.

A

Was a question from mr. rosenberger about minimum parking standards? Do you.

A

Want to address that, how did we come to them to the minimum parking standards.

A

That were requiring, as opposed to just abolishing them completely you're.

F

Talking about the residential minimum requirements, it's a balancing act. You.

F

Know I think you've heard a lot of testimony just recently about parking.

F

Concerns in areas and demands of public parking on street parking, so it was a.

F

Balanced they were lowered. You know in many cases again we were overall our.

F

Parking standards when the consultant reviewed our section we're very.

F

Progressive in our parking standards compared to many.

F

Communities that typically just do the minimum standard and they don't have any.

F

Maximums we have maximums and the minimum requirements are fairly low.

A

Council, merv owen, no, I think I don't think I had any. I think I just wanted to.

H

Talk about conditional use objections, but there that's gonna, be a chapter 6.

H

Thing so thank you just to clarify regarding the question from miss.

A

Simonian, it comes from sam, dick berg asked about the perpetuity of affordable.

A

Housing that appears in the deed of the property. Is that correct? How was it how.

A

Was that enforced over, I think, would be part of a recordable commitment or you.

F

Know the city would have to relinquish that I'd have to double-check on that.

F

Language but but there that's been a pretty strong commitment that we'd be.

F

Working so hard to get these units, we want to make sure that they're around.

F

For a long time, so that's that's the direction we've been taking. I see okay.

A

Any other questions: okay, seeing none, then we'll move on to.

A

Council comment: correct: is there council comment on chapter 4 counselor mr. baum.

A

Did you yeah? This is kind of big picture, but peter calthorpe is a new urbanist.

I

Who founded one of the founders of new urbanism and is one of the people that.

I

The proponents of the up zoning have been quoting from. I just thought it.

I

Would might be interesting if I read a little bit from this book his latest in.

I

Addition, the idea conservation in urban design, applies to more than energy.

I

Carbon and the environment, it also applies to preserving and repairing.

I

Culture and history, as well as ecosystems and resources.

I

Conserving historic buildings, institutions, neighborhoods and cultures,.

I

Is as essential to the vital living urbanism, as is preserving its ecological.

I

Foundations new york city may have, among the most the smallest carbon footprint.

I

Per capita, but to solve the climate change crisis, we do not all have to live.

I

In the city, urbanism is in fact one our single most potent weapon against.

I

Climate change, rising energy costs and environmental degradation, yet our towns.

I

Cities and regions cannot be shaped around a single issue like climate.

I

Change or peak oil, no matter how critical they may be urban design is.

I

Part: art, social science, political theory, engineering, geography and economics. I.

I

Believe it is necessarily all of the above urban design cannot and should not.

I

Be reduced to any single metric in the end, great urban places are qualitative.

I

They are ultimately defined by the coherence of their public places. The.

I

Diversity of their population and the opportunity they create for our.

I

Collective aspirations, we will never treasure our cities and towns just.

I

Because they are low carbon energy, efficient or even economically abundant.

I

We will treasure them only when we come to love them as places as vessels of our.

I

Cultural identities stages for our social interaction and landscapes for.

I

Our personal narratives, but that does not mean they should not also play a.

I

Critical role in the climate change challenge, so balance balance is what we.

I

Need and vision is what we need and knowing our local city, loving it caring.

I

For it being very careful how we take care of it, that is our mission, and that.

I

Is our responsibility? Thank you. Thank you. Councillor valen.

H

Well, I think it also happens that the place is the cities that we treasure.

H

Happen to be the ones that are the most compact, the most efficient for people on.

H

Foot, that's why one of the big focuses that I have is parking and I have for a.

H

Long time I was interested in miss henderson's concern about the safety of.

H

Neighborhood residents in the near west side with the narrow street, with parking.

H

On both sides and the concern about fire trucks, the concern about what happens if.

H

We don't require parking in residential areas. First of all, no one's going to.

H

Take away existing parking on existing properties, but anything new there's, no.

H

Particular reason to require them to provide parking on their house if 95% of.

H

Neighborhoods built out anyway, it's not going to make much of a difference.

H

Number one number two: the solution to managing parking problem in a.

H

Neighborhood is very, oh, that's sorry, that's mr. stern mom's time I've got to.

H

Reset the time I'll stop early is of neighborhood parking zone. We have done a.

H

Dozen of them since 1992, and we did them at first in reaction to students wanting.

H

To commute to iu once iu stopped trying to restrict freshmen.

H

From or any student from having cars, but they work extremely well. We under charge.

H

For those zones for 25 years, we only recently raised the rate to $45 a year.

H

It's a very reasonable price and you'll be surprised how much parking becomes.

H

Available when you start regulating your neighborhood zone, secondly, why is it.

H

That children should be restricted to playing in yards. Why can't? We have.

H

Streets that are safe enough, that children can play in the street. That is.

H

A tradition in many cities over millennia streets don't have to be wide.

H

They we should be concerned about a firetruck being able to get through, but.

H

The answer there is to take away the lane of parking to make room for that.

H

Firetruck, if you do that, be where you're gonna start having people speeding like.

H

They do on my street, which only has parking on one side and they zoom past.

H

Because it's a two block street without a break. But you know.

H

That's a key thing: the I support the complete elimination of parking.

H

Requirements and will be proposing an amendment to that end. But that's not.

H

Going to eliminate parking, it's just going to stop the expansion of parking.

H

Which we already have plenty of absolutely plenty of. We don't need.

H

Anymore, we need to regulate what we have better. Finally, will this will save for.

H

That next week, when we talk about chapter 7, but two things I found were.

H

Not actually defined in the plan as it is on page 202, it defines the us epa, it.

H

Says epa, but then it says housing and urban development doesn't say it's the.

H

Us housing and urban development- that's the only mention of it in the you do so.

H

We should address that also arid median income itself is not defined in the.

H

Definition section: we need to define it and that might also be an opportunity to.

H

Explain what are the different levels of area medium income that we think about.

H

When we think about workforce, affordable, low income, very low income, whatever the.

H

Terms are, we should get them all in with a document this thick with this being.

H

Such an issue, we should have those things to find. Finally, I don't admit to.

H

Not quite understanding the affordable housing incentives and I'm going to work.

H

With staff to better understand those definitions, the formula for calculating.

H

It- and there was a good question about whether from ms clothier about whether.

H

They apply to single-family zones, I mean, I don't think they do, but it's a.

H

Question worth with getting straightened out, so those are my thoughts.

A

Councilman piedmont, smith,.

D

Yes, I wasn't going to comment, but then councilmember stir bomb made a comment.

D

That was really obviously about chapter three, which we're not supposed to be.

D

Commenting on that, I thought well, I need to bring up once again climate change.

D

Global warming- I listen to the quote that he read from the new urbanist. I.

D

Think what people fail to grasp is that life in 20 years is not going to be.

D

Anything like life now, okay, we need a new paradigm, single family housing.

D

Basically is not sustainable, we can't keep having every family in a separate.

D

House, with a lawn around it, it's not something that our environment can can.

D

Support we need to drastically change the way we live. We need to live in a.

D

More compact energy-efficient way- and you know we can- we can love our.

D

Neighborhoods and I love my neighborhood- it's a historic neighborhood, but the.

D

Fact is it's not gonna, I mean our whole existence, as we know it now is, is not.

D

Gonna, be the same, I mean we can love our neighborhoods, but it's there's going to.

D

Be nothing left to love if we don't drastically change the way we live and.

D

I'm not toughs just talking about bloomington, I'm talking about everybody, but here in bloomington I mean we do have the benefit of not being on a coast.

D

Where the we're going to be, you know submerged in the ocean, but we are going.

D

To have to deal with climate change refugees, we are going to have to deal.

D

With the fact that food is going to be more scarce, that gasoline is going to.

D

Cost you know 50 bucks, a gallon that things are going to be much more.

D

Localized out of necessity, and so when I look when I look at chapter four, which.

D

We're supposed to be commenting on, I think it's very irresponsible to allow.

D

People to build in a flood plain because flood plains, 100-year floods are going.

D

To come every five or six years now, I think it's really irresponsible of us to.

D

Make it any more difficult to grow a local food than it already is.

D

I think we need to make it as easy as possible to have solar pan.

D

Not require screening, and I think that the walkability that ms rosenberger.

D

Spoke of is very important as well. Why do we need 24 foot driveways, there's no.

D

Weapon, there's no reason for it: let's go to shared driveways; instead, it's because.

D

We're gonna not be using cars as much we're going to be walking and what makes.

D

It safer to walk is less fewer, curb cuts, so these things all add up and that's.

D

Really the lens through which I look at this whole ordinance, and I really wish.

D

People would look at the whole ordinance, even though it is a huge document, but.

D

There we just have to realize that business as usual isn't going to be.

D

Impossible in a few decades and the more we delay in changing our paradigm, the.

D

Last possible, it will be to thrive on this planet in the future. Thank you.

D

Or even survive for that matter. Further council comment: I wasn't intending to.

A

Say something but I'll just add. I don't disagree with councilmember piedmont.

A

Smith and I and frankly, don't disagree with councilmembers turbo. I think that.

A

In order to cope with change in the future, we will need social cohesion. We.

A

Will need to be resilient community we will need to we'll have to depend on.

A

Each other and I think that there is a place for different housing types. I.

A

Think that I can see I've already seen naturalization of single family lots for.

A

Wildlife for gardens and and and so forth, so I think that that kind of.

A

Adaptation can occur with density increases, but it needn't be sacrificing.

A

A built environment that we already reside in that has that cohesion and is.

A

Proven so with that, do we have time remaining for comment.

A

Everyone's had their comment come to council mr. bum, once 30 seconds or.

I

Neighborhoods were built before automobiles, the original green, when.

I

People had to walk when there wasn't fossil fuel and I think they're gonna be.

I

Relevant in 10 years, thank you, council, merv olin has 30 seconds. Nobody should.

H

Be asking for requirements for automobiles? That's the thing we talking.

H

About requirement for to provide a minimum requirement for automobiles in.

H

New residential and for single-family houses there shouldn't be a requirement.

H

Doesn't mean that people won't build it, but there shouldn't be a requirement for it, so we need to go back now. We're having a debate. Council burst air violent, oh right, I think that concludes council councilmember brough. You have.

A

Well, you have one minute 30 seconds remaining. Take me along. I just want to.

R

Follow up on councilmember piedmont, smith's comment. You know I.

R

Agreed that we're looking and I'm convinced thoroughly convinced as she is.

R

That we're looking at a radically different future way of living, forced.

R

Upon us, by by environmental change, that will also have tremendous social and.

R

Economic change that goes along with it and you know I don't pretend to.

R

Understand what all those implications will be for communities and for.

R

Lifestyle, but I have to think that in an in the future of reduced habitable.

R

We reduced habitability of large areas of economic and social upheaval that.

R

Cities, urban environments are not going to be, are likely likely not to be a.

R

Place where we're going to be able to have people living people will need to.

R

Move they'll be much more people. Many large.

R

Numbers of people involved in food production, custom, pima smith's mentioned.

R

Three local izing food production, so we're going to see, I think if the.

R

Changes is radical, as as several several members of the public have have.

R

Expressed that they think it will be if we're looking at that kind of dramatic.

R

Change, I don't think we're looking at cities being continuing to grow. I don't.

R

See that bloomington will be needing to accommodate large numbers of refugees. I.

R

Think people will be re inhabiting the countryside and having to grow more and.

R

More local food we're not going to have massive fossil fuel inputs and.

R

Fertilizer inputs into and pesticide inputs into the mass agriculture by huge.

R

You know diesel equipment we're going to need, people are going to have to return.

R

To so a lifestyle that that's very different this, so I I don't think we can.

R

Pretend to predict the urgency of. I just don't believe personally, that under.

R

These kind of changes that that we're going to need to accommodate and urban.

R

Large urban populations that will no longer be able to be sustained by.

R

Massive intense agriculture run by very few people. It's gonna, be agriculture, run.

R

By much more people more labor intensive and will not lead to massive population.

R

Of the cities so anyway, I just wanted to add that. Thank you. Thank you. It looks.

A

Like we've now exhausted council comment unless anyone else hasn't spoken all.

A

Right, we'll move on now to chapter five subdivision standards: mr. robinson.

F

Thank you. This is going to be a very short presentation on subdivision, just.

F

For everyone's understanding, this is typically when somebody comes in to.

F

Subdivide their land when they do that there are certain requirements that are.

F

Required such as right away, dedication and other things, so there are standards.

F

In that process, this is how the chapter is organized its consolidates all the.

F

Standards for how land is subdivided within the community. There are four.

F

Subdivision types one is called infill subdivision is it has a three acre.

F

Maximum so again, that's designed for your kind of small-scale subdivision.

F

That's new in the code there's a conservation subdivision. That's a.

F

Carryover from the current you do, that has a five acre minimum requirement.

F

There's a traditional subdivision that is again carryover from the current you.

F

Do that's a three acre minimum and then there's a commercial slash, employment.

F

Subdivision there are no minimum parent lot size requirements on that. The type.

F

Of standards that are typically looked at in this chapter, are you know the.

F

General provisions easements they come in different flavors. You have utility.

F

Easements conservation, easements, karst, easements, pedestrian easements, so.

F

There's a section on that. Looking at various design standards block lengths.

F

And intersections and those sorts of things lot sizes. Some of this is looking.

F

At again, the parent sized tract and other tracks, monuments and markers these.

F

Are things to help identify where the lots are open space requirements.

F

Stormwater requirements right away so when again on some of your larger.

F

Subdivisions there will be dedications of right away and that those public.

F

Improvements are required as part of that and then utilities, where the.

F

Utilities, glow and what-have-you the little image on.

F

The right is an example of a break out of the traditional subdivision, so it.

F

Looks at the parent tract again, I mentioned that's three acres.

F

It has base zone awareness is mostly looking at your residential districts. 5%.

F

Of the areas required for open space looking at allé.

F

Serviced lots: the percentage of that maximum block links, cul-de-sacs aren't.

F

Permitted looking at right away standards, references, the transportation.

F

Plan that was just recently approved looking at street parking. The tree plot.

F

With that's the width between the sidewalk and the curb, where the grass.

F

Plot is and again the requirements for sidewalks, so this just gives you a.

F

Snapshot of one of the districts that's fairly similar for the others. They just.

F

Have different standards, so that's that all that I have on on this chapter.

F

They'd be happy to have answer any questions that you may have. Thank you.

A

Thank you mr. robinson, we'll go to council for questions.

A

Council members mullin, thank you. I got into conversation yesterday about the.

H

Idea of condom condominiums in the would be plexus if somebody wanted to build a.

H

Duplex and then make it two separately owned units. Is that feasible under.

H

Bloomington or indiana code, I'm not sure mr. rooker could answer this or mr.

H

Robinson but it does seem like a reasonable thing to create home.

H

Ownership through plexus is that feasible.

J

I mean that is something that is used in the city and also, I guess, I'm more.

J

Familiar with it in the county, so where it's like condo iced, I believe when.

J

Turning toss came before you with the project at 17th and arlington. They.

J

Discussed being able to do that without actually having to having to subdivide.

J

That they could I'm not familiar with how that would be done. But it's like a.

J

Horizontal property regime, thank you, and so I believe that that would be possible.

J

And we can verify that, but that's my understanding. Okay, so to your knowledge,.

H

If somebody wanted to build a plex, they could make it a condominium of two three.

H

Or four units and those could be separately owned? Yes, do we know if it's.

H

Legal indiana to put a restriction or a covenant on that plex so that no more.

H

Than one unit could be owned by one person, in other words, it would it be.

H

Possible to restrict somebody from owning more than one unit in that plex.

H

You mean for the government to say that, or for them to do that themselves, either.

H

Way for us to condos in town that do that for us to require that that yeah.

J

That's mr. mr. work, who can answer that and some of those owner restrictions.

G

That came up, I think yesterday as well. Those tend to be limited, but we want to.

G

Do a little bit more of a comprehensive study on that before we give you a firm.

G

Answer but there are, there are some cases out there that suggest those sorts.

G

Of restrictions are discouraged the way I'm not following you're, saying that the.

H

State discourages a local ordinance, that would say in a plex that was organized.

G

Into a condominium, you could only own one unit in that plex. I think that was.

G

Your question is there: why would they thrown upon that? Well, generally, local.

G

Zoning regulations that regulate the identity of an owner right that that.

G

Oftentimes, those are not received well by courts, but again we want to do a.

G

Little bit more research on that before we give you a firm answer on that. I think scott mentioned that at the top of his presentation on chapter 4 as well.

G

Thank you, council, member chopra. My question is.

S

Whether or not during the plan commission hearing on this chapter.

S

Whether or not there were proposed amendments you're challenging my memory.

F

Good yeah there were I'm not aware of any amendments on chapter five. You know.

S

Hot-Button issues, no okay. Thank you appreciate it.

S

Council members turboman so an adu, that's attached, that's a pretty simple.

I

Way to have an owner and another person living in those as like, it's kind of.

I

Like an owner duplex, but if you made a duplex out of an old house and then.

I

Thought you could condo eyes it. Wouldn't there be restrictions about how you had.

I

To have firewalls and certain building restrictions that would keep you from.

I

Just condo izing, an old house like I get row houses those are easily and they're.

I

Built for condos- and I think councilmember volans question- was about.

I

New construction that would be built for condos, but I don't know how you would.

I

Condo eyes a little old house that had a zigzagging non flame-resistant division.

I

Between the two houses, my understanding is, but again we can.

J

Verify this that, if you were doing a remodel of an old house, that the issues.

J

With firewall between units wouldn't come up, if you went to condo eyes, it.

J

Would come up when you were doing the remodel to create the separate units.

J

That you would have to have those in at that time, but you probably know more.

J

About that intimately than I do, but we can verify that. I think that the so.

J

Building code is enforced by monroe county building department, so we are not.

J

Intimately involved, but I can find that out to verify when those types of.

J

Requirements come into play right and then there are a lot of deep lots that.

I

Could be subdivided and then you'd have ownership. You take one lot, that's owned.

I

And it's subdivided into two lots so that you now have two homes on.

I

What used to be a single property and that's something that's dot was done. A.

I

Lot in the traditional neighborhoods before zoning, and how do we address that.

I

Now so many of our limit minimum lot sizes make that more easily done sure. So.

J

We still have the requirement. I believe that you have to have frontage so for.

J

Example when we had the subdivision that was slightly controversial last year, the.

J

Year before on a second, where they had frontage on second and.

J

Then, just a small amount of frontage on anita on the south side. That's why they were able to do that subdivision. They had.

J

More than enough land to do it, but if they didn't have frontage on both roads.

J

They couldn't so a corner lot clearly has frontage both ways. Okay, is that and.

I

My question was: did the reduction in lot size make that easier to do? Is that was.

I

That a conscious part of the change or was was there any attention made to.

I

Subdividing long deep corner lots in the in the urban core. I don't think that was.

J

An intent- I even let scott speak to that. The this was an amendment that was dealt.

F

With the plan commission, the intent was dealing to help lower a lot lan cos. I.

F

Guess when you're looking at lot sizes, so that was the general intent there was.

F

A lot of comments referencing some newer developments on dunn street and along.

F

The b-line trail that those single family lots are fairly small, that why.

F

Couldn't we have some smaller lots, so there was a evaluation of looking at.

F

Existing lots and planked commission felt that there was some room to kind of.

F

Go down comparing it with the existing lot sizes are many of the single-family.

F

District is another way to add, density and and respect ownership. It could be.

F

Depending on what the characteristics of a particular lot is yes, councilmember.

A

Piedmont, smith: I have a couple questions about easements. I understand that.

D

Maintenance of the easement is responsibilities of the property owner.

D

What is the enforcement mechanism for that? Sorry, you said: what is the.

J

Enforcement, I missed the end, the enforcement mechanism. How is that.

D

Enforced the maintenance of the easement similar similarly to other site plan.

J

Requirements if it's done, if it's done through a subdivision process and then.

J

We check and make sure that it's installed properly maintained properly at the you know, while they're doing the construction and then overtime, it's.

J

Something that we typically only address on an enforcement complaint basis. Okay,.

D

And then, on the other side of the coin, in particular for a drainage easement, it.

D

Says page 213 drainage easement shall provide that the owner of the lot on.

D

Which the easement is place shall be responsible for maintenance of the drainage features, but what, if the stormwater that comes.

D

What, if it originates off-site and because of the flow of stormwater, the.

D

Impacts on the property owner site keep getting worse and worse, and is there any.

D

Recourse for that property- oh sure, so we get that kind of call semi-regularly. I.

J

Mean we've had probably a few this year and that typically goes to the drainage.

J

Engineer for the city who works at city, bloomington utilities, my understanding.

J

Is that the state regulation is like water as a common enemy which ends up.

J

Being that it, you know, if you're at the bottom of the hill, it's kind of your.

J

Responsibility to take care of it, even if development above is making it.

J

Worse, so that's not something that we typically are super involved in, but I.

J

Can check with mr. pedan to verify exactly what rate courses are available.

J

To property owners when they are affected.

J

By off-site water changes, well, if you with this hypothetical and if there's a.

D

Approval for a development up the hill when you approve that development, don't.

D

You have a requirement that the runoff is yes, yes completely, so we mostly see.

J

It in a single-family situations where they would maybe be doing small someone.

J

Might be doing small changes to their yard or property that then negatively.

J

Affect a neighbor not in a substantial way, but just small changes. That's.

J

Usually, where we get calls on that yeah and I just wanted to confirm what jackie.

G

Said without reference to mr. paden were what we call a common enemy doctrine.

G

State which means that storm or surface water, like that is considered a common.

G

Enemy in each property owner is free to take whatever precautions they need to.

G

Without regard to downstream property owners, so I think we'll be seeing more.

D

Of our common enemy in the coming years.

A

We run counsel questions first round any other first round questions I had one.

A

For mr. rooker, just a clarification among things that you're researching the.

A

Question came up about requiring own owner occupancy of duplexes. Is that.

A

Something that you are examining was raised last night and we're thinking.

G

About that right now, very good things second round questions, councillor vaughn.

T

I wanted to ask also about the subdivision standards. It wasn't in the.

H

Summary have we made it possible, through the new proposed code, to reduce the.

H

Minimum size lot that can be subdivided I mean, can we make smaller lots than we.

H

J

Yes, so the minimum lot size is changed and.

J

Some are being proposed to be changed right in some of the districts. So then.

J

Those would be the minimum lot sizes that use so yeah. How much smaller can a.

H

Minimum is a minimum size of a lot now than it used to be well. You have to look.

F

At the base zoning chapter 2 on the base owning what the minimum lot sizes are.

F

And then the districts show which of the subdivisions apply to those districts so.

F

I think, like the commercial districts, there's not a minimum lot size, but the.

F

Residential there are, I mean, and I was just curious it and the residential ones.

H

Are they, I think if you look at the r3, it's 7200 right now and it's down to.

F

5,000, okay, so most of the zone. No, we created new are re so that our r2 is a.

F

District, that was a kind of a gap to fill in the gap to our rs or the earth.

F

To district I have to remember, but that one there was some reductions in all the.

F

Minimum lot sizes they're- certainly not the minimums, aren't increasing. I take no.

F

They've all they've all been very good. Lower q council members turbo just.

I

Another mega question about mapping. We wouldn't be precluded from changing.

I

Commercial to residential or mixed-use residential would we I mean we're.

I

Mapping we're just changing zones.

F

Can you restate your question? I'm sorry, I jumped ahead to the mapping and I said.

I

We wouldn't be precluded from changing commercial zoning to mixed-use.

I

Residential yeah, again, that's a mapping question that would come up. I would.

F

Point out that a lot of the permitted uses in chapter three do allow a lot of.

F

The commercial allow a lot of the residential uses currently, but that's a.

F

Mapping question that we'll take on next year: consumer piedmont, smith, yeah back.

D

To easements so in this document there's a tree preservation easement in the old.

D

You do it has also a tree conservation easement, where no trees can be removed.

D

Is why was, why? Is that not present here? Is that encompassed under conservancy.

D

Easement or sorry just a second.

D

I'm on page 217 yeah, but I'm using the summer draft. So my apologies.

J

I'm trying to look to see we we call out yeah, I'm not positive on the answer to.

J

That question yes, so in the current code there are two separate I'll have to get.

J

You back get an answer for you on that. I don't know that it was intentionally.

J

Removed: okay, I'm a pro she ate hearing back from you on that. I'm the commercial.

D

Employment subdivision, which mysteriously is abbreviated, ci, there's.

D

No open space requirement: why is that? Is that going to be assured through zoning.

D

District requirements, or is that insured some other way that there's open space.

D

In the subdivision.

F

So for a commercial subdivision, there's no required I'd, not sure what it's.

F

Currently, looked at again, generally, some of the things that we were looking at.

F

Doing is to allow for more urbanization and trying to balance the kind of growth.

F

And sprawl so generally the open space requirements and those sort of things.

F

Are directed towards your excuse and residential, and not your commercial, that.

F

We again, we can look at look at the open space requirements for the commercial.

F

There are environmental standards and other things that would need to be set.

F

Aside through karst features and other land development standards, so again with.

F

A subdivision requirement to take a closer look at the open space.

F

Requirements or standards yeah, so that is that's a carryover from our existing.

J

Commercial subdivision and that no open space is required with that type of.

J

Subdivision- and I think it's like what this guy is saying that and the other types of subdivision, the open space are typically for, like a common, open space.

J

And that that is generally thought to be geared toward residential and the other.

J

Two types, I think, is why it was left out initially: okay,.

D

I'm curious about cul-de-sacs too. In those I don't have further questions.

A

Second round I had a question about: you have lighting's street lighting lighting.

A

Fixture styles and and various requirements, but anything pertaining to.

A

Then I'm missing about efficiency, in other words, leds, are preferred I'll have.

F

To get back with you on that a lot of the lighting requirements. Typically, my.

F

Understanding is with the board of public works. We work with do.

F

They're, the ones that provide the streetlights and we are limited to what.

F

Their options are on the type of fixtures and types of lighting and again.

F

The city pays for the electricity and meters for those, so I generally believe.

F

The direction is there they're heading that way, but I don't have a specific.

F

Answer to that question: that's more of a public works question! Okay and I'd like.

A

To remind councilmembers that questions are encouraged of written questions to.

A

Staff or encourage any other second-round questions.

A

Councilman piedmon smith called the sacs and the commercial subdivision called.

D

The sacs are allowed. Why would that be necessary? We always talk about.

D

Connectivity being so important, so I'm wondering why that was left in sure I.

J

Think it's a fair question. I think it's a carryover. There wasn't a lot of change.

J

Proposed with the existing types of subdivisions that we have the main.

J

Change for this chapter was the addition of the infill subdivision, which you know.

J

In the last five or maybe eight years is the majority of what we do small you.

J

Know one or two lots: we haven't done very many of the larger.

J

Suburban traditional or or the conservation or the business.

J

Subdivisions so I believe that that was just brought over so useful. Oh sorry, it.

J

Can be useful, even though it seems counterintuitive in places where the.

J

Conservation is needed where there are environmentally sensitive areas to be.

J

Able to have development next to that, where you wouldn't want a street going.

J

Through that area, I think we see that we've seen that sometimes I'm fringes of.

J

Town, where we have maybe more environmentally since in areas like.

J

Maybe in the pic area, the public improvement corporation subdivision, we.

J

Saw recently, but yes, it's a carryover, so we could be open. Give you try to. We can.

J

Discuss with the consultant are there reasons to leave it in, or does it make sense to take it out? Thank you. We have eight minutes remaining for.

A

Second-Round questions: if anyone has any others, okay, seeing none we'll go to the.

A

Public, if the public would like to comment, this is on chapter 5 of the you.

A

Do subdivision standards remember to state your name and sign in I'm michelle.

O

Henderson I signed it already, so I assume I don't sign in again is that.

A

Correct, do you does the clerk? Is it just a name.

A

Right, you're right, I I live in the near west side. The lots are deep and I moved.

O

There from the suburbs we built a house and I'm a gardener and the soil and in.

O

The suburbs was terrible. I never really knew good soil till I moved into our.

O

House on the near west side, because that topsoil had never been removed, and so I.

O

Could not believe how easy it was to grow things. That's a real resource. I.

O

Love what I'm hearing about urban farming about us being able to grow our.

O

Own food and I think that's something to consider the suburbs. The newer suburbs.

O

They they don't have, they don't have the same kind of land. They don't have the.

O

Same diversity of plants, and so I would ask again that you consider preserving.

O

The the core neighborhoods that are historic- that have a lot of benefits.

O

That you don't see in some of the other suburbs. I'd also ask for some.

O

Consideration about the fact that the suburbs have larger houses, larger lots.

O

And covenants that protect them, so whatever wonderful ideas that we have.

O

More density, we're not gonna, see it in those suburbs. Thank you. Thank you. Sandy.

Q

Clothier again from near west side, I just wanted to mention that when we were.

Q

Going through the you do process, one of the things that I was struck by is that.

Q

There seemed to be no change in suburban lots or the way that they were.

Q

Constructed and I asked a question of of the people who are here talking about.

Q

That clarion and they said well, they didn't.

Q

See any need to change it. It seems to me that if gridded dense areas are what we.

Q

Want we want them everywhere and not just in the inner city and one of the.

Q

Real failures, it seems to me of this entire plan, is that it doesn't look at.

Q

The city as a whole and see that we can develop areas all around our city and.

Q

Densify them and have areas where there is employment, and there is access to.

Q

Grocery stores and then make those more dense, it shouldn't all fall onto the.

Q

Core neighborhoods, it should be in the areas all around the city and keeping a.

Q

Suburban plan that kind of wanders around forever and doesn't kind of grid.

Q

The streets and make it easy for walkability just misses the point, and I.

Q

Just think it's a lack of imagination. Thank you. Thank you. Peter dorfman, from.

N

The very over-represented near westside, the I I applaud, the council's of.

N

Interest in accommodating the big picture in these discussions, so I just.

N

Wanted to call attention to one big-picture fact of life: the future of.

N

Brick-And-Mortar retail, in everywhere, not just in bloomington, is really bleak.

N

And the future of housing looks pretty rosy from an investment perspective.

N

So I would hope that you would think in terms of an amendment that builds into.

N

The you do an explicit recognition that all those retail areas should be up for.

N

Grabs either by definition in the you do review process or during the mapping.

N

Process there we have vast areas of retail that look like the. The trends are.

N

That they're headed for the abyss, and we should be explicitly targeting those.

N

Areas for conversion to dense or mixed density housing. Thank you. Thank you. My.

U

Name is david kapil and I live in sherwood hills. Two condominium.

U

Association or walnut street park pike, and I would like to comment on.

U

Sustainability in townhouse situations like mine, one of our residents, is.

U

Particularly environmentally conscious and is now planning to install solar on.

U

His roof, which I commend, we have with our attorney, constructed a lease.

U

Agreement because, of course, this is complex in terms of ownership, since the.

U

Hoa owns the roof and the resident benefits from the from the solar.

U

Electricity and is in this case paying for it, but my comment is a more general.

U

One, and that is, I would hope that we would build in strong incentives for.

U

Both in new subdivisions for sustainability and for upgrades in.

U

Sustainability, another area is, we have areas between our buildings where noisy.

U

Lawnmower comes through in the light of urban agriculture. I keep thinking of.

U

That, as being a shared garden, I don't know how this could all apply in code.

U

But I would encourage us to be as resourceful as possible, both in.

U

Supporting initiatives that are and in creating incentives for them.

U

Within subdivisions, thank you. Thank you for your comment. Are there others? Okay,.

A

We're back to council for another round of questions. Anyone interested okay.

A

Councilmember voland, I wanted to ask about the role that historic.

H

Preservation plays and processes for preventing I mean, I know that, there's.

H

Already sort of a there's been a lot of debate about plexes and neighborhoods.

H

Wouldn't a plex be limited in its ability to be built based on historic.

H

Preservation- wouldn't it wouldn't a building, have to be to go through the.

H

Process for a sort preservation to before it could just be. I mean there are.

H

Some protections there aren't there sorry! Thank you. Sorry! Yes, if it's being.

J

Built in a local historic district, then yes, they all have separate guidelines.

J

With different levels of stringency, but yes, the historic preservation commission.

J

Would weigh in on that so, for example, the near west side I mean is which is.

H

Overrepresented tonight, they're not yet a historic district. Is that correct, but.

J

I believe I believe, they're a yeah they're on the agenda. Yeah they're about.

H

To yeah so they're under interim protection, correct yeah, but I mean.

H

Aren't there substantial protections to such a neighborhood, that's protected by.

H

A historic preservation that doesn't apply to another neighborhood, the.

J

Historic preservation being locally designated does does add an extra layer.

J

Of protection, yes, and by protection you mean delay or premature layer of review.

J

For in this case, because extort preservation of design of the building.

J

Earlier you said that there were 22 of 25.

H

What do you call it? Conditional use conditional uses were approved, but there.

H

Were many more that didn't even reach that stage? Yes, many many more okay, yeah.

J

Yes, so we so the one that's most pertinent is the accessory dwelling.

J

Units and when we gave our presentation last year in 2018, our first yearly.

J

Required review for you all which we'll be doing here in the next month or so.

J

Again, that was something that we highlighted and that's why we that's.

J

When we highlighted that we largely are telling people that they weren't going.

J

To be likely to receive that approval because they weren't able to meet.

J

Minimum lot size that was the main sticking point for conditional uses so.

J

Yes, we for all conditional uses, we try to counsel people, and you know so that.

J

They don't spend money and come to the board of zoning appeals if it's unlikely.

J

The last question is: is there any kind of historic? 'no sin, minimum lot sizes.

H

Would if we're going to reduce minimum lot sizes? Are there anything in a.

H

Historic district description that precludes a lot size going smaller, not.

J

Not that I know of that, they all have different regulations.

J

But no not not related to minimum lot size. Thank you. Further questions, I'll.

A

Ask one so miss clothier mentioned I'm just not sure when is the appropriate.

L

Time for me to answer a question that was asked earlier, that I have the answer.

L

To now so, just let me know when that's is, which question wasn't miss porter? How.

L

We know that a permanently affordable unit will remain affordable if the.

L

Owners change the ownership, changes and there's a commitment, that's recorded at.

L

The courthouse, so it would come up in a title search. Okay, all right. Thanks for.

A

That information question about miss clothiers, oh yeah,.

A

Yeah the question was: how is this different than the previous? You do a.

A

Sassy and traditional subdivision ensures the creation of grid like street.

A

Alley system, yes, I misspoke earlier the things things have carried over but.

J

Suburban subdivision is not one of them, so the suburban subdivision, with the.

J

Winding roads and the larger lots, that was an option that is an option right.

J

Now is actually not being brought forward, so traditional subdivision.

J

Conservation subdivision the business subdivision and then our new infill.

J

Subdivision are the only options I see so we are now going to have the.

A

Traditional yes, so if you are developing out in a larger tract into a subdivision.

J

You'll have to follow that and then I wanted to follow up on mr. dorfman's.

A

Question about repurposing, I suppose especially large big-box retail, that are.

A

Clearly, struggling at this point is that anticipated at all in this document, I.

A

Was asking so I'm not sure we'll have to check, though it was something that's.

J

Been discussed, it was, I was thinking more on a smaller scale, like it hillside.

J

In henderson, how those were supposed to be built to be able to be one or the.

J

Other something we discussed and I'm not sure that it is actually included in.

J

This draft, but we can verify that okay, other questions. Okay, we're going to.

A

Second round customer voland, I wanted to ask briefly about: I don't know if it's.

H

In the infield subdivision or not, but to go along with what miss clothier said.

H

About you know, we need to densify the whole city that doesn't just include.

H

Sort of making residential subdivisions denser, it also means creating more.

H

Integration between residential and non-residential is there anything in the.

H

Infill subdivision that talks about mixed use- you know commercial in the.

H

Midst of residential, you know the notion of the corner.

H

Or the the corner store, that would be, I mean the the perfect example of this is.

H

The building on east second street, the former ig, a former blooming foods, a.

H

Business that was always in the middle of a residential neighborhood are those.

H

Precluded encouraged tolerated or not contemplated, so I think that may end up.

J

Being a mapping question because, but the infill subdivision it can be done in any.

J

Base zoning district, so it could be done to amend areas like that.

J

That are commercial within residential, but the actual uses for those sites.

J

Would be would be derived from what the actual zoning category is for those.

J

Areas so when this body looks at where they want to draw where you want to draw.

J

The new lines, you know the guidance from the comprehensive plan has those focus.

J

Areas in town that create those kind of small nodes that where we would look to.

J

Have a mixed use district and in those areas to be able to create that. But it.

H

Does contemplate those small nodes, it does not discourage, it does a lot. Yes, it.

H

It might go so far say that it encourages them, but maybe it does would.

H

You would you say that you're encouraging it very good. Thank you.

A

We're on yes, council! Mr. bowman are those notes still considered and.

I

Required in the pds, where we want to have polycentric development, or is it.

I

All residential now don't we want commercial in in a new pud so that we.

I

Have the old peds always had commercial aspect and residential? Are we still.

I

Going for polycentric development or have we dropped that in the areas we.

J

Would prefer that view needs to be multi-use thanks? Okay, we're just going.

A

Questions before we go to comments, saying no more questions.

A

We will now go to sorry, debate, comment and debate comes mr. bowman.

I

Yeah my comment because I'm on the historic commission is that the.

I

Commission and the protections are complicated in the conservation district.

I

Demolition is not allowed, however, additions are allowed and in.

I

Fact in conservation districts they are not reviewed, so you could make a duplex.

I

Or a triplex, by adding on to a house in in conservation districts without review.

I

By the historic commission in a regular historic district, there would be review.

I

But we never have turndown additions, we simply review how they fit so that isn't.

I

Going to stop duplexing and then outside of historic districts, ninety-five.

I

Percent, maybe more of demolition delays are simply passed through. You know they.

I

Happen to be on a state survey, they come to us, and many of them are contributing.

I

Structures which means by themselves they're not worthy of coming to council.

I

You know we think well, this would be nice if it was in a district, but here's.

I

This one place or this isolated building we're not going to recommend the council.

I

Because council is the ultimate decider of preservation, so concert the.

I

Demolition delay is almost no protection. You know, I always think of it as a large.

I

Net and we're trying to catch the important structures before they go, but.

I

It's it's rare that we're bringing from a demolition delay aspect to council.

I

We're mainly passing them through, but giving them one last review. That's a.

I

Comment period about chapter 5, I didn't recognize anything about chapter 5 in.

D

Your comment are we allowed to comment on anything mr. chair, mr. chair, I'm.

I

Asking a volunteer, I guess I was not disallowed, so I'm commenting on the.

I

Response to that question, which I didn't think was fully answered, and I thought I.

I

Could help okay, it seems appropriate since the subject.

A

Was brought up? Do you have any further comment? It's turning into a debate so.

A

Councilman boland debate the this body. You know we had talked about doing two.

H

2-Minute bites of the apple and instead has become one four-minute bite. That's why I've been a little huffy about it this evening. I think I appreciate the.

H

Answers to the restrictions at historic preservation has on the question of.

H

Plexes, that was interesting and educational, and I don't know that.

H

Chapter five is the right place to think about it. I was more concerned about the.

H

Generally positive things that I've heard about the reduction in the minimum.

H

Lot size, that's good, we want more, you know smaller development. We want smaller.

H

Houses are more affordable, we can fit more of them in a given area. More people.

H

Want to live near, let me cite this section again of the the comprehensive.

H

Plan policy five point: one point: to establish: affordable housing in.

H

Locations with close proximity to schools, employment, centers, transit.

H

Recreational opportunities and other community resources to increase access.

H

Here's an important policy that I think we should be spending more time on and.

H

The more places where we can get more people and those those centralized areas.

H

The better, but I also hear the concern of the core neighborhoods. It's not like.

H

I never heard it and ms clothiers point about how we should be in filling the.

H

Whole city, I think, was addressed by staff about how infill subdivisions can.

H

Be retrofitted on to any other type, that's very good news. I think we need to.

H

Think a little bit further than that, we, you know the downtown doesn't have to be.

H

The only center of the city of bloomington.

H

The reason that the downtown is is saved now is because back in the early 80s.

H

Somebody said, let's save the courthouse. The courthouse is a government building.

H

And it creates an anchor for all of the kinds of activity, saving the courthouse.

H

Had this domino effect that wound up cause you to save the whole square and.

H

And now we have a very successful downtown, we could create the seed of the.

H

Development of more city centers in other places, I mean one of the de-facto.

H

Centers of the city is the third corner of 3rd and college bowl road, but it's.

H

Literally, under the jurisdiction of n dot- and they are very car happy, but the.

H

Future in the future, in the next 50 years, we could and should see gray field.

H

Development out there, development of new property on on parking lots because.

H

They're big, unwieldy, unnecessary. We concede that by starting a building, a.

H

New government building, when we need one if we need a new police headquarters, maybe we build it on the east side or evil it somewhere, where we can build.

H

Another town center, if we we had the chance in 2003, we built the utility's.

H

Building but it's it doesn't face the street at all. It's a god. Two parking lot.

H

In front it's set back, there's no one gate. We had a chance there to build some.

H

Kind of a town center on the south side, we need to think about the downtown, not.

H

Being our only center, even as we want to protect it and grow it, that would also.

H

Take pressure on the so-called core neighborhoods: maybe we can make a core.

H

Neighborhood out of councillor chopra's, you know of neighborhoods in park ridge.

H

East by creating a new town center out there again, that can be seeded started.

H

Up with the need to develop some new city building or frankly, a county.

H

Building it doesn't include that we are the county seat of the nura county. We.

H

Could work with the county government to have them think that way about it too? We.

H

Don't have to all be in one place and it's getting increasingly expensive to.

H

Do so that's my comment, thank other comments from council councilmen.

A

Repeat, mone smith, yeah. First of all, I'd like to say, I think it's very.

D

Unfortunate that we can't stick to the topic at hand, or at least try to relate.

D

What we're saying to chapter 5 be that as it may, I have a specific point about.

D

Chapter 5 that I forgot to ask about so I'll just say it's sort of as a comment.

D

I think my question is kind of speak for what my concerns are in the the section.

D

About street design, which is part of subdivision chapter there's this thing.

D

Called eyebrows- and I know it was just carried over from the old one. I know it.

D

But there are there's some streets in my district that have these so-called.

D

Eyebrows and that means like you're driving along the street and then.

D

There's there's a little crescent shape where you can pull off and then there's.

D

Like four homes on that little eyebrow they're not directly on the street.

D

God forbid we'd be directly on the street; they are on this eyebrow. Well, I.

D

Think that is a very automobile centric way of building it's a waste of asphalt.

D

It's something we I mean it only belongs in the suburban subdivision and we've.

D

Zero now it's the suburban subdivision, very rightly so so that'll be another.

D

Amendment I'm gonna bring this to get rid of those eyebrows thanks further.

A

Comment on chapter five: okay, seeing none.

A

That will do we have any other matters, mr. shermin, to cover it this evening.

C

C

Start thinking and clarifying what amendments you might need, so did you.

A

Have a question about the you do is next wednesday 6:00 or 6:30? Is it 6 p.m. 6.

S

P.M. thank you thank you. I thought the public might like to know and then we'll.

A

Cover chapters 6 &, 7, councillor valen, yes, mr. chairman, could.

H

You give us a little bit of guidance on what you want from council members in.

H

Order to begin thinking about amendments, do you want us to give you actual text.

H

Do you want to issue with a form, or should we just send you a few paragraphs.

H

Or a few lines of text, let's say what we want to do unless you disagree, where.

C

We're working off the form we've used in the past and we'll make that available.

C

This week so, and that's should we just send you an email or do you just want to.

H

Get it you want us to fill out forms fill out the form. I think, if you have a.

C

Clear idea of what you want send it along and if you have time we'd like for.

C

You to fill out the form- maybe we have the time for both. I just.

H

Don't know like if we have ideas before the form is issued, it says you're sure.

H

Sure what you know that way we can get a good idea of what's coming up. Thank you.

A

Thank you, okay, and I just wanted to thank the public for coming out this.

A

Evening, it's always impressed by the collective windows, wisdom of bloomington.

A

Is there a motion to recess so moved on favor of recessing aye.

A

Any opposed research we recessed until october 30th at 6 p.m.

T