City of Bloomington, Indiana City Council, 7 Oct 2020

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From YouTube: Bloomington City Council Transportation Committee, October 7, 2020

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meeting agenda: https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=7699

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Hi everyone: this is a transportation committee meeting.

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Of the bloomington city council, it's wednesday october.

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7 2020. today we have two items on the agenda. The first.

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Is ordnance 20-17, which is to amend title 15 of the bloomington municipal.

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Code entitled vehicles and traffic- and this will happen by replacing the.

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Neighborhood traffic safety program with the traffic calming and greenways.

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Program, the second ordinance is 2021.

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And that is to amend title 12, streets, sidewalks and storm sewers.

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And title 17 construction regulations, so our plan tonight for both ordinances.

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Is to hear from staff 15-minute presentations and then we'll.

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Come back to council, I would if we can like to limit our.

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First round of questions to 15 minutes, hear from the public and.

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Then come back again for more questions and discussions from council.

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And staff sort of in general trying to max out at.

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An hour per ordinance, keeping in mind, we can still you know.

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Make changes later if we want or have a second meeting if we are having.

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Fun here tonight, okay, so does that sound good.

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Madam chair, are you gonna? Do you need a timer? Is somebody good at time.

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Oh, I don't even think about a timer on our system.

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Okay, do you want to no would would you want to time.

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See is that um amber valenti this department chair, wants the time she can.

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Do it uh either way yeah it's up to you? Oh, I see.

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I can also start one okay I'll, do it? Okay, so we're going to start with.

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Ordnance 2017 and then being title 15 so to make traffic calming.

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Different and tonight we have.

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From the administration mallory rexell, who is our bicycle and pedestrian.

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Coordinator and beth rosenberger, our planning services manager so I'll.

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Turn it over to you too, for your presentation. Okay, great awesome,.

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um So uh I have, I have a perfect. I have some slides.

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Prepared for the presentation, so um yes, like.

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Council member rosenberger said my name is mallory rickbile, I'm the bicycle and.

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Pedestrian coordinator, um so to give you some uh background.

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Context I have been working on writing and re-envisioning a.

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New policy for the past year and a half as well as I have been.

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Working with two neighborhoods to navigate the current process, the ntsp.

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And, and also I am a resident of one of the neighborhoods broadview.

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That has been trying to navigate that process over the.

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Course of the past year, and so um this has given me a lot of insight into the.

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Current program and and help to inform what a.

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New process might look like so I'm very excited to be here today and to talk to.

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You about the policy next slide, please.

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So what we're going to talk about today is I'm not going to bore you too much.

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With a lot of background information, but we're going to discuss what do we mean by slow streets? Why are slow streets.

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Safer streets and why are they more equitable streets, I'm going to.

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Point out a few of the components of the ntsp, which is the current process.

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And then cover the new process that we are proposing or the proposed.

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Process and discuss briefly why two processes.

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We feel is important, an important aspect of this new policy.

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As well as talk about um some of the specifics of the program.

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So how much would it cost? Where would that come from.

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That kind of thing and then uh talk a little bit about some of the internal.

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Considerations we've had for this policy leading us up to this point.

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And then open it up for questions next slide. Please.

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So what do we mean by slow streets effectively? What we mean.

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Is speed, compliance or going the lawful speed.

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So not breaking the law next slide.

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And so the reason why it is unlawful to speed.

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um Is because slower streets are safer streets and speeding.

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Is a public safety concern next slide.

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So, by virtue of the laws of physics, we know that speed affects the severity.

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And likelihood of crashes um and and so.

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I have um we know that higher speeds yield more force.

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They also narrow the field of vision. Speeding vehicles will travel at greater.

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Distances before the brakes can be applied when.

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The danger is perceived, speeding, vehicles, travel, greater distances before.

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Coming to a stop and then speeding, vehicles are likely to.

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Oversteer or understeer again, these are all based on sort of the.

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Physics, which I don't have a background in, but I do.

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Have I do have some notes here that have reasons for that laid out in.

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Case you want to get into that, but in the interest of time I'll just keep moving forward next slide. Please.

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So we know that even small changes in the um in speeding have an exponential.

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um Relationship with the uh risk of a fatal injury.

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So if you can see um on this graph, we see that a collision with a person.

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Driving a car at 20 miles per hour um can result in a fatality, 10 percent.

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Of the time, where is um uh the.

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40 miles per hour uh that would uh be uh result in a fatality, 80.

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Of the time so again, there's that exponential relationship.

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And, um and also, I think it is worth noting.

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That um injuries that do not result in fatalities are also.

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Very traumatic and can seriously impact one's mental.

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Emotional financial health for both the person.

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And the people who are in that person's life.

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Next slide, please, so we know that nationally, speeding is involved in.

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37 percent of all fatal crashes uh on.

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Local streets- and this is about eight points higher than any other category of.

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Streets and this information comes from the national highway and traffic safety.

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Association next slide, please, and so that.

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Then begs the question: why do we have? um Why is speeding so.

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Why what has brought us here um and effectively? We have made.

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Streets where it feels very intuitive to speed, so the this image that I have in.

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The slides um it shows a cross section of a street.

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From the early 1900s, which is uh which is the grid like that,.

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We've seen where we have narrow streets sidewalks.

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Houses that are closer to the street and then.

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The image below is an image of what is characteristic.

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Of the post-world war ii, economic expansion.

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Or the emergence of the subdivision and so.

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The characteristics of this are much wider streets, so there's areas.

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For parking on the streets, even though parking.

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Isn't often something that's in high demand in this space.

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This there's setback houses, there's wide amplified, curves.

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In this picture, there is a sidewalk, however,.

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And, as you will see, most of the residential areas.

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That look like this often are built without sidewalks.

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As a result, we have as a result, we have streets designed such that it feels.

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Intuitive to drive speeds at 40 to 50 miles per hour, similar to a major.

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Corridor or even a state highway, and that the only way to remediate this.

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After the fact is, with enforcement, this is not possible or ideal.

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And or this is not ideal, it's not possible 100.

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Of the time, and so it becomes incumbent upon.

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Us to retrofit these streets for the behavior that we wish to see.

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So this is a subdivision in bloomington. This is lexington in park. Ridge.

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Neighborhood just north of campus: um again, you can see the setback house.

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The amplified curve, um the uh there's no sidewalks in this.

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Example next slide please. This is.

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Ralston, um just just east of rockport.

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Again, there's no sidewalk: this is going downhill.

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And so you can see the setback houses next slide.

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This is oolytic drive on the north side of town and you can see.

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Many of the same characteristics, and I would like to point out.

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There is a there is a sign uh created by the people in the.

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Neighborhood, um encouraging motorists to drive slow.

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And next slide, please- and this is a comparison to.

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uh This is madison between third and fourth.

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um And so you can see that there are visual cues.

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To show that this there are pedestrians in the area, so.

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In addition to having parking, that's utilizing that.

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Constricts, the street slowing vehicles if they were to come in either direction.

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We also have, we also have street trees. We have tree plots, we have.

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Sidewalks, which shows the the um motorists or the.

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People driving cars that um that this is an area where driving 40.

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To 50 miles per hour is not appropriate. Next slide.

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So why are slower streets more equitable streets.

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Next slide, please: well when we say incomplete streets, what we're talking.

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About is streets that have one user in mind. Drivers instead of a.

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Range of users, which is which includes bicyclists pedestrians, we.

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Have a lot of incomplete streets or we have.

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Incomplete streets in our communities and many of them look much like the residential streets that I just showed you.

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The single user may have not been the intent of the design of the street.

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However, that has become the outcome, so we know that incomplete streets.

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Disproportionately affect cost burden, households.

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Counties where there's more than 20 percent of households which have.

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Incomes that fall below the federal poverty line.

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Their pedestrian fatality rate is over 80 percent.

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The higher than the national average, and likewise we know that.

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Communities of color are affected disproportionately.

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um The fatality rate for latinos um is 60 higher than that for white.

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People and the rate for african americans is almost 75 percent.

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Than for white, we know that um that these.

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That incomplete streets are also associated with adverse health effects.

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Such as asthma, copd cardiovascular disease, and that these.

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Effects are amplified when car centric communities.

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Can can make it more difficult to access nutritious foods.

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Place to be physically active without the use of a car.

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That a sense limits, the ability for one who cannot drive.

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Who is unable to drive, who doesn't want to drive? Who can't afford to drive? Are.

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Too young to drive, they can't attain these resources.

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Without relying on someone to provide transportation for them,.

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And finally, we know that 60 percent of people who are interested in biking as.

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A form of transportation are interested but have concerns for their safety and a.

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Disproportionate number of these people who fall into this category.

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Are women so when we look at equity, we think about.

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What would it mean if we had streets that allowed two car households to.

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Become one-car households, thereby reducing the yearly expenses on.

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Average, by six to nine thousand dollars per year.

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And that's an average um cost next slide. Please.

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I just want to let you know you're out for for a minute.

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Oh, thank you. So I have four minutes left.

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Or I've gone yeah okay, so this is a slide with local data and what we have.

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Is housing and transportation costs as um over the median income.

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So the areas that are orange and pink are areas where the income.

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uh That there isn't that much money at the end of the month after housing and.

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Transportation is is factored in, and so we do see a.

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Cluster of the purple, dots, which are indicate.

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Crashes, where there have been injuries next slide, please.

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So um there was a council special committee on street design.

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In 2012 and there are key recommendations which have been put into.

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The new policy which I'll talk about in just a little bit next slide, and it.

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Is also part of our comprehensive and transportation plan goals which I have listed here as well.

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Next slide so the neighborhood traffic safety.

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Program, um it has a resident-led process which.

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I'll talk about in just a little bit, the barriers to entry are high. The.

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Barriers to installation are extremely high and we.

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Know that this uh that this environment requires.

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Or this requirement favors those with both time and privilege and trust.

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That the city will react appropriately to be able to navigate this process.

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Neither are metrics connected to the success of the program in any way.

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Next slide, please.

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So then the question becomes: why do we need to process? This is a part of the.

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New policy simply to respond to public safety.

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Concerns as well as to implement the high the.

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High priority by network per the transportation plan.

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Both of these things right now are not possible. The way that the code and the.

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Policy are written, so we needed to update that in order to.

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Live out the plans that we have in place next slide, so the traffic calming and.

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Greenway process, um it runs much like a yearly grant.

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Cycle there is an evaluation methodology that.

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Is created by the bicycle and pedestrian safety commission.

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Which looks at where are there instances of high.

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um Vulnerable road users, and where are there, where is the prevalence of.

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Behaviors that can cause harm, and so there is an annual.

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Cycle where we will release an rfp, we will do.

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Outreach to neighborhood associations to people who.

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Contact me to report speed non-compliance in their.

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Behavior or in their neighborhood, as well as to release it to the public.

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Via um a press release as well.

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And um so this is a much more uh or the streamlined process for and in.

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Terms of being able to navigate the process and being sure that we can set the expectations of what's possible.

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With the funding that we have available next slide,.

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So the staff led process is much the same.

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However, we have taken into account that, as.

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Staff, many of the projects that we are hoping to implement.

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Have already been established through the transportation process so that.

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Makes the assessment and project selection for those projects.

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Much much more streamlined, but it also does allow us to.

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Interject, when we do find a situation where the level of risk is such that we.

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Feel that we need to make changes to the street environment.

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Without without having to go through the organizing as part of the resident-led process, next next slide, please.

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So program deliverables. um So here's what we're talking about when we say.

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um Traffic calming devices uh we have speed cushions. um I wanna point out that.

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The speed cushions that we're talking about reflect the image. That's on the.

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Top, um rather than the speed bumps that you.

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Would see in a parking lot so the speed.

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Cushions that are are pictured here in the top picture. They have a.

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They can, they can be designed so as to fit the behavior that we would like.

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To see so driving the legal speed limit, 20 25.

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Miles per hour, um when you think of speed bumps, you often think of the ones that require you basically to come to a stop and inch.

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Over that's not what we're talking about. We would also have the ability to install bump outs, pavement markings and signage.

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As part of the resident led process next slide, so then.

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Some of the questions that we had, um oh one of the things that I also wanted to.

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Mention is, we would allocate about 50 000 uh for this program in the year and.

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That would purchase about um 10 pairs of these asphalt.

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Speed speed cushions that I had mentioned, which we imagine would be.

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About two projects per year, internal considerations.

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We wanted to include a removal process, but we wanted to make sure that.

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If we installed something that it wasn't going to be.

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Quickly removed after the fact we discussed, is it important to have an.

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Annual cycle, or can this kind of be open and on demand, and we felt that a.

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Consistent process would allow the predictability for staff.

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On my end and any potential applicants, because.

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There seems to be a seasonality for when people are really concerned.

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About speeding non-compliance in their behaviors and that's in in the fall and in the spring, is it too complicated.

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um That is the question I get. um We do feel it's not complicated. It's just a.

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Little more nuanced, most people will not be, um will not be.

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Working with both processes, um the staff led processes has its own.

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um Its own uh track, for which and and purpose for which it will be used.

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And the resident-led process is much more streamlined than the.

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Current policy that we have and that's the most of what people will.

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Interact with when they interact with this program,.

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Next slide, please questions comments.

A

Okay, great, thank you! That's just a little over bud. I just that was good.

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um Should we do you all want to go right into questions.

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I have a very general one that might help us a little. I would like to know if.

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We could talk a little bit about the differences between the two plans. Sure well not the two processes, but the.

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Current process, why it's not working and then how the.

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New one, the details in the new one that solved that.

C

um So, do you want me to talk about where there are barriers.

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In in the new process, is that what I understand.

A

Sorry, no, so why why we're making a new process.

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So what or how the new process is alleviating the barriers from the old.

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Process yeah that I think okay, so.

C

I think the fundamentally the difference between.

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um When the the current process says, traffic calming should be hard to attain.

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And ultimately, um in the 20 years since the.

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Policy has been written. We recognize that um that, with.

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Vehicles getting larger um and that this is and with our comprehensive.

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Plan changing that, in fact like that, we want.

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There to be an outlet for this, however, we need to.

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Be sure that those resources are allocated in a way that is most.

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Effective and most efficient use of public funds.

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And so because of that we turned it into a grant cycle.

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Where residents organized residents can come together and put together an.

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Application and then we will rank those based upon a.

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Methodology that doesn't exist in the first policy. It's more about.

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Can you get ballots returned? Can you get signatures.

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Can you do you, have the social structure in place.

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That will allow you to be able to organize the people who live around you.

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In order to get support for this- and we know that that that.

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Disproportionately means that people who are living in low.

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Income areas will not have that same ability to reach.

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That outcome, as we would like to see.

D

May I add a little on the internet. Sorry yeah.

E

Okay, so I'm beth rosenberger planning, services manager.

E

So what mallory was saying um in terms of what are some of the current barriers.

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In the current process, the ntsp people have to sign a petition.

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First to request traffic calling and then there are a lot.

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Of steps, and then a step within that process, is that households have to return a ballot to city hall and.

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Of the you define an area where the project area is, and.

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From that area, 51 of the households must return a yes vote, and so that is.

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Like if our president was only elected, if 51.

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Of the population voted for the president and not.

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If 51 of voters voted for the president, so it's based on the number of.

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Households there and of those households requiring that 51 of.

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People return a ballot, and those ballots are actually based on.

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If people like it or not and their the current process does not.

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Collect any data about if it is working to reduce speeds, if it is creating a.

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Safer street and anything like that, so the proposed.

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Process requires people to get signatures to show that people on the street and people who live there are interested.

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And want to see something change, but it does not require voting.

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Because I think that the threshold is way too high.

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And voting has no connection with if the street has become safer.

A

Okay, thank you uh questions from committee members. I have a question.

A

Yes, uh I've already forgotten it. uh Can you go back a few slides.

B

B

um That's going to come back to me, I I don't remember now. It was a good.

B

Question but it's gone: okay, okay, other questions, okay,.

F

Yeah, mr p, marksman. Yes, um I.

G

Want to just uh get confirmation. Another big change here is that.

G

The uh the street segments that receive traffic coming will not be in city code.

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And so the city council will not have to approve.

G

um Application of traffic calming measures is that correct.

G

That is correct. Yes, they are, um they are the way that it's written is.

C

They need approval for removal, but not installation, and what is uh the.

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Logic behind removing the city council overview.

C

E

At a clarifying point to that mallory in the current process does city council.

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Have final approval whether the calling is installed or is.

E

It only through the voting process that traffic calling is installed, and then that is added into code.

C

That's that is correct, so you need to get through the voting in order to get.

C

To city council, so my understanding is that the.

E

Current process isn't based on approval by putting it into the table.

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In code, but was only based on people voting.

E

And then the traffic calming would be installed and then at some point it was.

E

Updated in the table in the code, but.

G

Okay, so it never really needed approval of counsel. It was just that.

G

To revise our code, where we list these places.

G

We needed to vote on using the code, it's kind of bad I'll, say.

E

That removing that table in all honesty, the intent was not about.

E

um Removing oversight from council, it's that the.

E

Tables are horrible to maintain um where we.

E

Want to move toward mapping and just having uh all of it.

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Mapped and where I don't know, I'm sure we would.

E

Be happy to do a report or something similar if there was something else you thought of, but the intent of removing it was.

E

Actually, the process of maintaining and keeping it take.

E

A literal table up to date of locations. Thank you. Excuse me.

F

um I'm, mr smith, hi um thanks, uh miss rick bit.

H

Honey I'm going to mash your your last name.

H

Rick, I tried to say it the other day and I I matched them pretty well.

C

German through canada, so it's kind of weird, with a name like smith,.

B

I get you, I know I've never had to worry about that.

H

So I really appreciate the presentation: it's great.

H

And I um we've contacted you a little bit because I live in park. Ridge, east.

H

And there's some some of my neighbors on morningside.

H

Drive are there. They want to figure out how to.

H

Slow, the traffic down so one of the questions that came up.

H

Was, if do the process still needs a number of.

H

People in the area to vote to uh incorrect me if I'm wrong to vote to.

H

Say yes, sign a petition to sign a petition.

H

So what is the affected area uh for including those individuals.

H

So, for instance, this is the question somebody asked me.

H

If they're on morningside drive but there's a cul-de-sac, that's.

H

You know uh hampton court or whatever and it's.

H

If there's a couple of cul-de-sacs on morningside.

H

Do you count all the houses and then you need to get 51 of.

H

All those houses as well or is it just the people.

H

On morningside drive yes, so um there are.

C

So we have um for the our petition part. We say we would like to get signatures.

C

From 51 of affected households or.

C

24 households, whichever is the lesser and then we define affected.

C

Households, as let me just pull it up right.

C

As residents and property owners of record.

C

Located two lots not to exceed 300 feet of streets affected by the proposed.

C

Traffic calming insulation, so um can you clarify that for me what.

H

Is that what did that mean? So it means that um largely at.

C

At the most um in like um to give you an example on uh countryside.

C

There were uh 360 some households and so that required signatures.

C

From 146 different households, because of the way that the streets were.

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Were made, and so we have taken that and we've said the most- that.

C

You'll ever have to or signatures that you'll have.

C

To get is 24 and that's based upon the prop program.

C

In boston that they highly recommended reducing.

C

The barrier for the petition signatures great and so that's to petition.

H

The city to consider traffic calming devices.

C

To put forth an application for uh being evaluated with the other projects, yes,.

H

Okay, well, thank you. That was really that was really helpful.

H

Yes and the notice that matthew described.

E

We just followed the plan commission notification.

E

Process so that it could be consistent so that people would be getting a letter.

E

So, even if you weren't one of the people who signed on, maybe if you don't know that it's being requested, you would then get a letter.

E

That says: hey someone is looking at installing traffic calming on your.

E

Street there's a request being reviewed. You have an opportunity to comment.

E

Either by going to this website and submitting a comment or attending the.

E

Hearing, thank you and that's. That's a function.

H

That the city does for the affected area.

E

Yes, thank you. We love mailing letters. I know you do. Thank you very much.

H

I I have a follow-up on this exact topic, but mr roland, if yours is on this topic,.

A

Too, no no go go ahead. Okay! It's just about.

A

The 24., so I'm sorry, mr bile, did you say.

A

Affected households is okay owners located within two lots.

A

Of the affected street and then not to exceed 300 feet.

F

That's correct. I would like to ask, I think.

A

Where did the number 24 come from only because.

A

I was talking to a resident on down my street howe street.

A

And if you look at the area between rogers and walker, there are.

A

51 homes so getting 24, I assume we could like go to some of the.

A

Side streets, but getting 24 would still be very close to that. 50.

C

Yes, um so how street um I, I think, the.

C

The the main limitation um for the so the difference between house.

C

Street and a subdivision is, is sort of the design of the street, so.

C

The amplified curves the many lots um these uh these pockets and.

C

Cul-De-Sacs, which, like in the case of countryside,.

C

Can be 300 um households, whereas how with 51.

C

Is a little bit of a situation or as a little bit of a different.

C

Situation due to the fact that it was, um it is a more historic neighborhood.

C

And so that has more of that grid-like design that.

C

Is is less um less of.

C

A circuitous route with with households on on either side and.

C

With those design aspects in mind, well, yeah, it's just very difficult to.

E

Pick a number honestly so: okay, mallory researched and.

E

Even um had a conference call to walk through the policy that boston uses, so it wasn't just like she just read it and was like.

E

Okay, uh so she did a lot of research and.

E

um We're sort of like some people think the number is too low. Some people think.

E

It's too high: it's very challenging to decide what the.

E

Threshold should be, and so modeling it off of a community.

E

That had a really good program in place. We thought was effective, but.

E

I think um I don't know, I think reasonable minds could differ on what.

E

That number or threshold should be.

F

Okay, thank you, mr golan. Yes, okay. I remembered my questions. First,.

B

Of all, can we get the slides sent to us? Have they been already.

C

Distributed, please do thanks um how much.

B

Demand, do you all expect there is per year.

B

For traffic calming how much you anticipate under this program.

B

And what portion of that is uh planning staff generated versus neighborhood.

B

Generated yeah, so I get about three. There is a.

C

Seasonality to it, like I said before, um I get about three to five calls per.

C

Week and so I would estimate that that's about 100 to 120, calls and view reports related to speed non-compliance.

C

In residential areas, and then as far as staff projects other than the things.

C

That are in the transportation plan that really.

C

I I that really doesn't exist uh that really doesn't ever come to the.

C

The top of of the um or rise to the the level of the top.

C

Of projects for traffic calming.

B

Okay, um the other question is among the tools that you can work with uh is.

B

The possibility of raised intersections or raised or.

B

Different color intersections, or um you know like intersections that.

B

Emphasize the pedestrian: are they uh part of your tool, bag.

C

um That's a good neil question. um I think the reason why we chose the.

C

Speed cushions was due to the price versus the efficacy, um and I I simply.

C

Don't know the efficacy of.

C

Color changed walkways well, in particular, I'm interested in.

B

Like raised uh raised sections of like raised.

B

Crosswalks, for example, okay, like on on rogers.

C

Where it crosses, I guess the overriding hall.

B

Yes, yeah, it's my it's my understanding that those are far.

C

More expensive, which would which wouldn't be conducive.

C

To the amount of funding that we have for this.

E

They're definitely a treatment we would consider, I would say they would be.

E

More our assumption right now is that would be a tool we use with the.

E

Greenways, um because.

E

Part of it is, you know, I guess just about prioritizing and.

E

Prioritizing, in other words, what you're saying.

B

But yes, what you're saying is when you're turning a road into a greenway.

B

That's when you would give it the royal treatment and do things like.

B

Raise crosswalks and paint intersections and the like.

E

Well, you know I don't want to. I always love when we choose our words together.

E

Council rules, I don't want to call it royal because it's very affordable.

E

You know in the scheme of things a raised intersection, um so I would say.

E

Yes, they are definitely tools that we are happy to use.

E

But because a raised intersection is probably a hundred thousand dollars at.

E

Least, um compared with speed cushions.

E

That are about five thousand dollars a pair, so it just depends on the space.

E

And that, yes, we would prioritize funding that is going toward calming and a.

E

Network um compared to maybe calming that is.

E

Serving that is potentially not part of a network, but still obviously in need of some level of traffic calling.

B

Thank you appreciate that.

A

Other questions, mr smith, is morningside drive a greenway.

H

And does that have a difference? I'm sorry I just nodded. But yes, yes, it is.

H

Does that have a different? uh Does that push us in a different direction on how.

H

We need to look at it for uh traffic calming or slowing.

H

The uh speed down- yes, I would say it pushes us, I'm sorry.

E

Mallory I just took this answer. No, no, it's you're the one. Okay.

E

Yeah, so morningside is identified as a neighborhood greenway in the.

E

Transportation plan and it is identified in the priority.

E

Bicycle network, so that is, you know we want to prioritize.

E

Funding for projects in that network, um so yes, it.

E

Would change it and I think that could change it to a staff led.

E

Process so that we are planning for what year.

E

We're doing that uh planning ahead to allocate that funding and design, and you know, like scheduling, meetings.

E

With the neighborhood to to work on that design too, do my.

H

Neighbors need to do something different.

E

No, I mean good question. um The thing is right now: that's in.

E

Phase two, so we would be looking at like four years from now, so.

E

Potentially, if I guess they wanted to apply to the name to the resident led program, maybe it could be considered. That's sort.

E

Of something we haven't honestly parsed out or figured out how.

E

To deal with, if residents are calling for traffic calming on a street, that is.

E

Identified as a greenway would we swap the order.

E

That we were planning to install it and- and we haven't figured that out- I.

E

Guess yeah I I guess I bring that up. There's.

H

Some young moms, with their children um and families.

H

And they're we're they're nervous, um they're, newer residents of that area.

H

And they're worried that you know the speed is.

H

Dangerous in it, and it is so okay. Thank you.

F

Okay, miss piedmont, smith,.

G

Yes, I just wanted to follow up on the funding.

G

um So is the fifty thousand dollars uh for boat? um Is that amount supposed to.

G

Cover both residential resident initiated and staff.

G

Initiated projects for one year.

E

No, so um we were saying for the resident-led that we would be.

E

Looking to allocate a maximum of 50k a year.

E

And the other portions that we are able to allocate.

E

Would be going to the staff led to work on.

E

Building up the priority network and addressing areas.

E

Where it comes our attention that we need to be addressing.

E

Where we find residents aren't calling for it.

E

Or they are, but it's definitely a safety concern.

E

That we, this process also allows the city to say we're not going to wait for.

E

Residents to do this, we we can identify this issue and uh and.

E

Act on it, okay, great so there's separate funds for.

G

That, and um is this coming from the general fund.

G

Or is this the alternative transportation fund or do you know our assumption right now is just using the alternative.

E

Transportation fund, so that's the neighborhood of 350 to 375.

E

A year that we have kind of on the staff side staff. But I mean like city side and.

E

Then over 300 goes to council sidewalk. um This is something we haven't figured.

E

Out, if council sidewalk wanted to allocate money, if instead the.

E

50K for the resident process came from council sidewalk. I.

E

Think that could be a good option. The difference would be council sidewalk.

E

Chooses their own projects and the entire purpose of this would be.

E

That it is selected through a set process, so.

E

So that's something that could be discussed as an option, though too.

G

So 500 000 for the resident-led uh initiatives and about a hundred.

G

Thousand for the staff led initiatives.

E

I think you added some extra zeros in there.

E

50 000 for resident lead and then 300 for city-led.

E

300 000, okay and then there's also the council sidewalk money.

E

But that is allocated by council sidewalk committee.

G

Wow 300 000 for city lab projects, aside from council sidewalk.

E

I don't know which direction the wow means. You know like.

E

No, I think, that's good. Okay, I've got a question. Thank you.

A

Mr boland and then let's potentially go to public pause with us vermin and go to.

A

Public, if you all want this, my last one but it's based. uh Thank you. It's based.

B

On council republic smith's comment just now.

B

I I asked in an earlier question about the divide between.

B

Neighborhood lead and staff led. Can you tell us about the.

B

The need that dictates that significant.

B

Split letters tell us what staff is thinking about.

B

Where traffic calming needs to be done, the most I mean.

B

You know how is that first 300 000 going to be spent.

C

Yeah, so the way that we figured is, you know, there's reactive uh speed.

C

um Speed control, um which is the resident led, which we see as the.

C

Resident lead the speed cushions and then there's the more.

C

Proactive approach of the greenways and reducing the amount of vehicle miles.

C

Traveled through the expansion of our network, and so we felt that our greater priority was to be able to.

C

See the network and to be doing these proactive, greenways.

C

And then allowing for an option, obviously.

C

For residents to be able to affect change in their neighborhoods.

B

So that money isn't just going to speed cushions.

B

That's uh development of greenways, yes, okay! Well, that makes sense.

B

uh I think that's it. Thank you.

A

Okay committee members: are you okay, if we pause for our public comment.

A

Portion, okay and then come back okay. I can't see that many. Mr final, if.

A

You want to unshare your screen. Okay, thank you. If anyone out there wants.

A

To comment you just need to raise your hand.

F

I'm not saying anything right, alexander, okay, great, I think.

G

Greg alexander would like to speak and mr alexander, if you'd like to go.

G

Ahead here I'm muted hello thanks, I'm greg alexander.

I

Obviously, this is a great improvement uh over the previous project project.

I

Process um it's uh I just want to draw your attention to.

I

That the extreme necessity of not giving neighbors.

I

uh Essentially, design veto, like the old process, did.

I

And we we never do this for for car centered projects, we never allow.

I

Neighbors to say, oh, you can't have more traffic on my street, which is which is.

I

Crazy, you know, uh because a lot of neighbors would really like the opportunity to do that. um But when it comes to these pedestrian.

I

Projects, you know we sent out a survey um for fourth and rogers. There was a.

I

Calming there almost 10 years ago now, I guess and.

I

They started out a survey of three different design options. Basically,.

I

Saying asking the neighbors screw bikes or support bikes and of course, they chose screw bikes.

I

It's not a very successful process when, when safety is is subject to community approval,.

I

And I just want to share an anecdote. My mom lives in.

I

In green acres and they had on their neighborhood association, mailing list.

I

uh Just constantly they always have complaints about. um It's called.

I

Hillsdale, it's kind of at the edge of their neighborhood, and it people use it as a as a cut-through to.

I

Get to the bypass and just you'll see 40 50 miles an hour. It's designed as a very.

I

Wide very suburban street: it's not like a grid street in any way.

I

No stop signs in between those two. I don't think.

I

And eventually someone said you know why don't we just ask the city to put a stop.

I

Sign at 7th and hillsdale and then the naysayers came out and.

I

People were starting to use names and and raised voices, because if you put a.

I

Stop sign there it'll take them an extra three seconds to get home in the evening, and we we can't be having that.

I

And there's this kind of equity question because my mom doesn't drive and so for.

I

Her it's a no-brainer. She wants the stop sign. She wants to actually calm traffic on on hillsdale, any way that we can.

I

And for some people they drive, and so they have a more conflicted interest.

I

But the interesting thing about that to me is the people who drive who said no.

I

You can't put a stop sign in my way, are the same people who said we have to.

I

Calm traffic here they said we have to calm traffic here, but they didn't realize. That means I have to slow down too, and we can't.

I

Allow this kind of toxic driver psychology to define an engineering process thanks.

A

Thank you. Okay, I'm not seeing any other hands.

F

A

Okay, I think we can go back to committee comments and questions.

A

Any other comments or questions bowen. I got a couple of comments. I'm looking.

B

At the grid of green acres here and it started out gritted and as it moves.

B

Further east, it gets all twisty and turvy, but I I know what mr.

B

Alexander said about hillsdale, it was a relatively high speed.

B

To urban street in when I lived in that neighborhood.

B

I was the person who formed the ad hoc special committee on street design and.

B

Engineering standards back in 2012- and I remember those days fondly uh but.

B

It was in the aftermath of uh council objecting to the large bulk of.

B

Planned roundabouts back in 2011., um but.

B

It was a an eye-opening look at uh the way that uh people think about.

B

uh Street design, namely that they don't they they didn't much, and so it's really.

B

Gratifying to see that slide, that shows.

B

Older neighborhoods and their narrower streets and newer, neighborhoods and.

B

They're huge wide shoots with big setbacks and how I've said for a long time that our streets are designed to encourage.

B

Driving kind of former councilmember mayor talked about the sleeping.

B

Policeman, which is an idea that apparently, scandinavia, norwegian or.

B

Swedish that the design of the street is a latent enforcer of speed limit.

B

So anything we can do to slow traffic down, I think, is.

B

Not just in order but overdue, uh and I am probably going to be uh lining.

B

Up uh my current street to get involved with.

B

This because we have a two block length of university.

B

Street, where there's uh no stop and.

B

uh You know we see cars driving on a fast on a very.

B

uh Narrow street that nestle needs to be.

B

Cushioned so I'm very happy to see this is a I'm I'm. Finally, now that I've.

B

Finally, seen sort of the program uh presented in totality I'm.

B

Enthusiastic about it, it's idea, that's overdue, and I think.

B

Everyone is going to find it more agreeable, even those people who.

B

Don't want traffic calming because at least it'll be easy to navigate.

B

But I think that the times have changed and.

B

Traffic calming is the order of the day, rather than an afterthought.

B

So I'm very glad to see this program, I'm very happy to get rid of a.

B

Really cumbersome piece of city code, just oh.

B

God, it's always been a chore for 20 years, so.

D

Amen to all of you and let's get her done. Thank you.

A

Okay, thank you other comments from committee members.

G

Yes, um I'm wondering if ms rickbile is available for.

G

Parties, um not parties, but public information.

G

Any kind of public uh engagement events, because that presentation.

G

Was just excellent, I mean it just spells it out why we need to take back.

G

Control of our streets and I think every car-centric.

G

Focused person should listen to it, so thank you very much for that.

G

um And I think this this process seems very clear to me.

G

um It's much more straightforward and, uh as mr alexander said, it.

G

Cannot be, you know, hijacked by uh people who don't care enough about.

G

Safety I like that quote, I wrote it down safety.

G

Should not be subject to public approval, I think that's a good one.

G

And I think that that it really does benefit.

G

Everyone in the end, even if you know they may not realize it.

G

Initially, but it makes a street um you know just more comfortable to to.

G

Walk down even for people who usually drive, um but you.

G

Know most of us will walk to the the mailbox or walk to a neighbor.

G

Every now and then and- and I think this this will be a.

G

Benefit in that respect, so um I think it's been well planned and.

G

Thought out, and I especially appreciate that this also.

G

Gives a clear path for staff to implement our transportation plan.

G

um With some clear criteria and public input from the bike, ped.

G

Commission, uh you know we're not eliminating um any public hearings here.

G

I think we're just making them uh more streamlined and.

G

And the criteria more clear, um so I I'm very much in favor of this.

G

Change. Thank you.

G

Thank you. Thank you.

F

Okay, mr smith, oh I just wanted to say thank you as well.

H

um Very much for uh reworking the policy. It looks fantastic.

H

Got everybody all excited on my side of town.

H

So so, thank you very much. I'm happy to talk to anyone and everyone.

C

About traffic call me anytime: well, if you got park ridge.

B

You know you got it in the bag. I think that's right.

A

Okay, I think everything that's been said is really lovely I'll echo. All of that.

A

um I have like one minor question about that: 24 number in the 51.

A

Just really thinking about my street still.

A

I'm wondering if we might want to adjust and adjust that percentage.

A

So that, if it is a very small affected space, you know maybe 30 percent.

A

Of households would be enough, I you know you all did.

A

The research here so um I don't know the rationale between 24.

A

Or 51 the lesser of the two. But if we had something like 30 and that.

A

Was less than like 24 so on the house street that.

A

Would in theory, right be like 15.? I didn't really do that math, but.

A

Two-Thirds third, something like 15.

A

Household, it just seems like still on a street like mine. It would be impossible.

A

To do traffic calming, and I'm just like thinking into the future, with the hospital redevelopment and second.

A

Street becoming you know very nicely, like more of a.

A

Neighborhood street and then potentially people speeding down how or something it seems like it would almost be impossible to do resident led. But I see where it.

A

Could still be staff staff designated projects, something like.

A

That but I'm just like wondering about that.

A

Tiny part, but we can also talk offline about it, because I mean just.

A

You know net drew out next this week before it's before council again.

C

Yeah we can, we can talk about it. I'm open.

B

Okay, madam chair, if you're concerned, we could also go to a second hearing.

B

There's no is, I don't know if there's a rush on it or not, but I think it's so minor that it could. um I.

A

Could just get a question answered via email and then we can discuss it at council. So we don't do another.

A

Round of this, I think we're so close to finished, potentially finished.

A

Even okay, so I don't want to take up everyone's time on that.

A

I would just say like to say, of course, I think this is great.

A

You know I when I, when I see that, though you know you're getting 100 120 calls a.

A

Week, not that every call warrants speed cushions, but two a year right. It's.

A

Just a long time to take on.

A

Making our streets safer in this in this space.

A

Of course, you guys will do it, the staff will do it in.

A

As well- but I don't know, I don't consider it a lot of money, so it's sort.

A

Of my normal spiel of this is wonderful. I would like it to be more.

A

Like can I have more please so I just you know.

A

The amount of money we put towards cars is still not anywhere close.

A

It's still just so much more, I mean millions more than what we're devoting here. So um I don't know what I said, but I meant.

A

To say 100 to 120 calls per year. I don't know what I said. I.

A

Wrote down three to five calls per week. Sorry, three to five calls per week.

A

Okay, so right I mean I would of course just love to see this thing.

A

Blown up to like a very high level, so maybe we can consider this a pilot.

A

Okay. Okay, so that's it! I'm rambling! I'm sorry! So.

A

um Any further comments, questions committee, members or staff.

E

Staff- I'm sorry this might not be for here.

E

um When we take this to, council is the well.

E

We would love to just give the full presentation that we gave here.

E

Or is that considered, uh you know we're still learning the.

E

Committee to council structure: that's all.

A

Yeah most, we usually do the same presentation again for everyone and then.

A

We give we give a quick report and then we have.

A

Discussion, mr golan, uh I just madam chair.

B

On this point, while I really appreciate the presentation as a community member, I.

B

Don't expect the full presentation, I expect that that's what you.

B

Give to give the full presentation to the full council.

B

uh The week committee members should be expected to be familiar with the.

B

Legislation and go right into you know, take a very brief.

B

Presentation and run into questions, and, generally speaking, that's uh that's the expectation. We're trying to set for committees.

B

So, with with the next slide coming up, you can you, can uh you don't have to.

B

Give the full presentation, if you just want to hit the highlights, because we're already like with the transportation committee.

B

We're familiar with transportation issues. We've looked at this issue before we came to the meeting, so that's what you should expect from us.

B

At any rate, I would like to add to that uh that, in.

A

The packet, it doesn't necessarily give all those details of the rationale.

A

And you know the speed: what feeding causes and how dangerous that can be.

A

And so I I think it was wonderful to assume we have read.

A

The packet but you're, then you know you're, giving the history.

A

And why this is necessary, so I thought that was really wonderful.

A

Okay, any other comment, uh madam chair I'd like to move yeah. Oh.

B

Sorry, I'd like to move that we uh uh make a recommendation tonight.

B

On this, yes, ordinance sounds wonderful, so let's.

A

I think I need a second do that so do I.

A

I think I'm even allowed. Okay, that's fine! I think I'm even allowed to just do.

A

It without anybody aren't they yeah you're, right, yeah, okay, okay, so this.

A

Is for a do path? Recommendation I'll, just call we're all mr smith.

H

Yes, mr piedmont, no, yes, mr roland.

B

Yes and ms rosenberger: yes, okay, okay, so our recommendation.

A

Is uh yes for council next week, four yeses.

A

Okay- and that concludes this portion of our evening. Thank you so much for.

B

Presenting point of order- uh it's actually two weeks because next week is budget, so I think we're taking back up on the.

B

21St, okay, so this will be before council on the 21st for anyone.

A

Listening and marking your calendars right.

F

Wonderful! Okay! Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

F

Okay, I'm just looking at my notes.

A

Okay, so now we will discuss ordinance, 2021.

A

Which is to where are my notes, okay, to amend title.

A

12 street sidewalks and storm sewers and title 17.

A

Construction regulations so with this tonight from the administration we.

A

Have sarah gomez, public improvements, manager and neil.

A

Copper interim transportation and traffic.

A

Engineer so if you two would like to go ahead, we budgeted.

A

15 minutes for your presentation good evening transportation committee.

J

Thank you for your time tonight. My name is neil copper. I'm the interim.

J

Transportation and traffic engineer a number of staff members have put work.

J

Into this ordinance and tonight, I'm joined by our public.

J

Improvements manager, sarah gomez, from the planning, transportation department.

J

Ms gomez is truly the subject matter expert for this topic, so I'm going to.

J

Hand things over to her.

K

Can you hear me now, yes yay, I don't know why. I did that um sorry.

K

Yeah. uh Thank you, neil good and good evening. Everyone.

K

um Again, sarah gomez public improvements manager uh tonight, I'm.

K

Presenting the proposed title, 12 updates for chapters 12.08.

K

And 12.10 and we'll be happy to answer any questions at the end of the.

K

Presentation first, uh the purpose of title 12 chapter.

K

12.08 title excavations is to ensure staff has a.

K

Permit for excavation in the city, right of way from utility companies, developers, contractors and constituents who need to excavate.

K

In the city, right-of-way, the conditions of the permit ensure insurance and.

K

Bonding are in place and repairs are to excavations.

K

And repairs to excavations are to a standard that protect public facilities.

K

For an example of title 12's purpose, I included.

K

Two photos on this slide the photo on the left and as an example.

K

Of a street cut repair that is done to city standard and the photo on the right.

K

Is an example of what can happen to public facilities if 12.08 didn't exist,.

K

The planning and transportation department, particularly engineering.

K

Staff has been discussing revisions to check chapter 12.08 for a few years.

K

The discussion of revisions was in response to staff concerns regarding the.

K

Fee schedule, enforcement and lack of right-of-way use language. These discussions resulted in the list as goals.

K

Shown on the slide to address staff concerns.

K

There's been addition to these goals over the last year and that addition.

K

Includes updating the language about sidewalk closures and walk-arounds, I will go over some of the more.

K

Significant updates that address the goals set forth in the upcoming.

K

K

As well as addressing staff concerns, the goals and proposed changes are relevant.

K

To the following programs from chapter six of the comprehensive plan.

K

Enhanced standards for maintenance of traffic and ada compliance approvals.

K

Manage right-of-way use and excavation policies permits and work to meet.

K

Desired standards and specifications and inspect all capital projects, city.

K

And non-city to assure compliance with applicable standards and specifications.

K

After review and analysis such as researching right-of-way permitting and.

K

Use code for similar cities, comparing fees using the current fee.

K

Schedule to the fees using the proposed fee schedule reviewing other violation enforcement language within the bloomington.

K

Municipal code, coordinating with public works staff.

K

Regarding right-of-way use and reconstruction requirements.

K

And discussions with various stakeholders regarding the walk around.

K

Language staff came up with a chapter 12.08 and.

K

12.10 draft the draft includes numerous small.

K

Updates, as well as larger updates, as highlighted on this and following slides, first right-of-way use.

K

We do not currently have a mechanism to charge fees for right-of-way.

K

Use or issue fines when maintenance traffic plans aren't.

K

Followed or the right-of-way is used without permission.

K

Causing issues for the public, we would like to require a fee for contractors to.

K

Use right-of-way to reflect the inconvenience that is caused to the public and the staff time spent reviewing.

K

And following up on right-of-way use, secondly,.

K

Imu tcd or indiana manual of uniform traffic control devices compliant.

K

Maintenance of traffic plans are already required in practice. This.

K

Provision would codify our current practice of requesting this for street lane bike lane and sidewalk closures.

K

The image on this slide is an example from chapter 6 of the imu tcd.

K

That shows temporary traffic control for a one lane. Closure.

K

Utilizing flaggers. Lastly, we would like to codify requirements for contractors.

K

To leave us with a better finished product, for example, when developers.

K

Build new buildings and hardscapes, we are frequently left with cobbled.

K

Together streets with patches here and there typically for various utility.

K

Installations, we would like to require complete mill.

K

Pave and stripe for excavations that occur on streets paved within the last three years.

K

Fees is the next highlight, and fees should reflect.

K

Amount of city, time and resources spent on permit review.

K

Inspections, paperwork and added, wear and tear to the city's infrastructure.

K

For example, a fiber boring project does not take.

K

Does take time to inspect and does cause undue, wear and tear on.

K

The infrastructure but 75 cents per lineal foot um leads to.

K

Permits that cost tens of thousands of dollars to supply a neighborhood with.

K

Fiber the fee is prohibitive, and fees should.

K

Be reduced for projects that benefit the public that take costs away from city capital projects, for example,.

K

Sidewalk projects should not be one dollar per.

K

Square foot resulting in thousands of dollars in fees.

K

For a project that results in new sidewalks.

K

Digging in the dirt should not be as expensive as tearing up a brand new road.

K

Currently, it's a dollar per square foot, regardless of what you're digging into.

K

Whether it be street or a tree plot fees from excavation in the right-of-way are.

K

Currently in title 17 and we propose to move those to title.

K

12. so we've included a comparison here of a.

K

Project using the current fee structure versus a.

K

Project using the new fee structure, this particular project is used as our.

K

Example, due to the fact that the city did receive pushback from the developer,.

K

About the cost related to these improvements, so.

K

For a larger project on the south side of city in 2019.

K

A large section section of sidepath was closed and widened as an improvement.

K

And additionally, two new sections of side path: each measuring approximately.

K

150 feet were built within a previously unimproved section of the city's right-of-way.

K

This project provides the city nearly 1200 feet of new.

K

Or improved side path and under our current fee schedule, the total fee.

K

Would be 18 423 dollars and 50 cents with 9603 being a fee for constructing.

K

And proving the site path under the proposed.

K

Fee schedule, the total fee would be.

K

5486.33 or 976 dollars pertains to the new or.

K

Improved sidewalks, I will add uh to that that.

K

That that could um that fee could change, because the sidewalk closure fee is.

K

Actually per week- and so this is this example is specifically based on it.

K

Being closed for one week, which is only a hundred dollars.

K

K

As well as updating fees, we have proposed updated bond amounts.

K

Bonds are in place in case a contractor, fails to complete their work.

K

The bond ensures the city has the ability to repair the contractor's.

K

Expense, instead of at the city's expense, although this was not one of our initial.

K

Goals, we believed it would be more clear for staff and the public to do away with.

K

The current bond structure and make defined amounts for typical.

K

Work that takes excuse me that takes place.

K

Currently, there is a required five thousand dollar bond that has a stipulation that any work that may cost uh over five.

K

Thousand dollars should be of the estimated cost plus 25.

K

Percent, it can be time consuming for staff to check estimates for so many permits, and this will help eliminate some of.

K

That some work, such as street cuts, should.

K

Require a larger bond due to the larger cost.

K

To do a street cut repair if the contractor doing the work fails.

K

To finish repairs or fails to repair the cut to standard the image on this.

K

Slide shows a small portion of the proposed.

K

Bond amount schedule, so this is not the full schedule. The new.

K

Schedule includes right-of-way use bond amounts such as street closure, storage of materials and sidewalk closures.

K

Speaking of sidewalk closures, the next highlight.

K

Is obstructing sidewalk and walk around requirements.

K

This is one of the more substantial changes we are proposing.

K

The photo here is of a walk around just for some context to somebody that.

K

Might not know what a walk around should look like the proposed changes.

K

Are intended to condense, the previous three sections that existed in chapter.

K

12.04 one section and add language that.

K

Requires compliance with indiana manual of uniform traffic.

K

Control devices, public rights-of-way, accessibility,.

K

Guidelines and occupational safety and health administration.

K

Guidance without going into excessive detail here, I do want to.

K

Relay a bit of information on how proag and mutcd.

K

Relate to ada guidelines, because that has come up and in the context of.

K

Temporary pedestrian routes, so first the american.

K

Americans with disabilities act of 1990 ada states that the needs.

K

And control of all road users, motorists, bicyclists and pedestrians.

K

Through a temporary traffic control zone should be an essential part of any.

K

Roadway construction utility work permit and maintenance.

K

K

Secondly, public right-of-way accessibility, guidelines or proac.

K

Serves as current accepted guidance regarding pedestrian design aspects of.

K

Public streets and highways such as crosswalks, curb ramps street furnishings pedestrian signals, parking.

K

And other components of the public right-of-way for temporary and permanent.

K

Facilities, the city of bloomington, adopted this as.

K

Their official guidance for right-of-way accessibility.

K

Lastly, the ime tcd standard states, almost parroting.

K

Perfectly the ada guidance, the needs and control of all road users.

K

Motorists bicyclists bicyclists and pedestrians within the.

K

Highway, including persons with disabilities, in accordance with the.

K

Americans with disabilities act through a temporary traffic control zone.

K

Shall be an essential part of highway construction utility work, maintenance operations and the management of traffic.

K

Incidents, so all of these entities guidelines echo the sentiment that.

K

Temporary pedestrian facilities should be accessible for all.

K

Pedestrians and are in line with ada guidance by.

K

Adding into code the requirement to meet these guidelines when submitting an application for a permit, we are then able to add to the new.

K

Enforcement chapter the ability to issue a violation when these requirements aren't met in the field. I will go over enforcement.

K

Later in the presentation, with a specific situation regarding a walk around.

K

Other proposed changes to this part of code include the ability for the transportation and traffic engineer to require additional items to a walk.

K

Around such as overhead protection and other safety precautions in some.

K

Cases the transportation traffic engineer may require pedestrian detour.

K

Or other accommodations in accordance with mutcd or osha guidelines.

K

The mutcd gives the following guidance about pedestrians.

K

And around work zones, pedestrians should not be led into direct conflicts with.

K

Worksite vehicles, equipment or operations.

K

Pedestrians should not be led into direct conflicts with mainline traffic.

K

Moving through or around the work site and pedestrians.

K

Should be provided with a safe, convenient travel path that replicates.

K

As nearly as possible, the most desirable characteristics of sidewalks or.

K

Footpaths excuse me.

K

In this situation, the transportation and traffic engineers will take into.

K

Consideration the city's comprehensive plan and transportation plan regarding pedestrian priority. Other considerations.

K

Include avoiding additional pedestrian street crossings.

K

Added travel, distance and options for detours, diversions.

K

Road nearing or road closures for automobiles.

K

In order to maintain connectivity for pedestrians.

K

The board of public works will also have the ability to require pedestrian detour.

K

Based on the context of the construction site, taking into.

K

Considerations the same factors as a transportation and.

K

Traffic engineer cases that need board proof. Approval are.

K

Typical for sidewalk closures over 14 days in length.

K

And lastly, and much anticipated by many, the addition of penalties in the form of.

K

Fines for failure to maintain an improved maintenance of traffic plan.

K

Which leads me to the last proposed change to title 12, the addition of an.

K

Enforcement and penalties chapter the overall purpose behind the removal.

K

Of the section titled violations and the addition of chapter.

K

12.10 enforcement penalties is to have.

K

Enforcement procedures in place that are more consistent.

K

With enforcement procedures and other chapters of city code.

K

That allows to have to be more efficient and specific when issuing fines.

K

So currently, when code is violated, enforcement is carried out through.

K

Letters issued from the city's legal legal department having enforcement procedures in place for staff to be able to directly issue a legal department, approved notice of.

K

Violation will be more efficient. Currently we do those on a case-by-case.

K

Basis so that will speed things up a bit for us.

K

These procedures are more consistent with enforcement procedures and other.

K

Chapters of the city code.

K

We should be able to have stiffer penalties.

K

For more egregious infractions, as well as a violation schedule to detail those.

K

Fines and the current code violations has and.

K

I quote a penalty and an amount not to exceed 100.

K

Per day, end quote: the proposed code will be.

K

Twenty five hundred dollars as the largest initial fine, we could issue.

K

And if a contractor continued to violate a provision.

K

The maximum per day, fine would continue to double until it reached seventy five.

K

Hundred dollars, if still in violation, each day's subsequent fine, would continue to be 7 500.

K

Until the violation was remedied so currently we only have the ability to.

K

Find for excavations without a permit, because the current code is only about.

K

Excavations in the right-of-way with the proposed code, we would include.

K

Types of use of the right-of-way we added fines for those uses.

K

So, for example, we added failure to maintain an improved maintenance traffic.

K

Plan to the list of violations and the photo on this slide is an.

K

Example of a situation where a walk around was required to be in place.

K

During construction of a building and the walk-around maintenance of.

K

Traffic plan was approved during permitting process and approved by the board of public works, and this approved plan was not adhered.

K

To when we had no mechanism and code to find or issue.

K

A stock work order with proposed code, as stated previously and shown in the slide.

K

Failure to maintain approved maintenance traffic plan, including but not limited,.

K

To maintaining compliant traffic control devices, this situation would have warranted a fine.

K

In this particular case, there would have been multiple infractions and fines.

K

Under the proposed enforcement procedures section of code, we have added.

K

The ability to issue a stop work order in this example case we may have issued.

K

A stop work order if we had the ability to due to the.

K

Ongoing issues that we were experiencing, although what we were.

K

Shooting, for was for the fine to get what we are.

K

Shooting, for is, for the fine to get the responsible responsible party to take action that permanently remedies a violation.

K

It would be beneficial to have a stop work order as an option.

K

And that brings me. That brings me to the end of my presentation. Thank you for.

K

Your time and consideration of the proposed title 12 update, which we.

K

Believe meets the stated goals, as well as meeting guidance from chapter.

K

6 of the comprehensive plan. Thank you again. I'm happy to answer any.

K

Questions that you have.

A

Thanks so much okay, questions from committee members.

A

Mr bolin, yes thanks excellent presentation.

B

um Were the photos you showed two photos at the beginning.

B

uh Of with, and without the new 12.08 like the.

B

What happened to they don't have the ability to enforce a curb cut were those both in the city were those pictures both taken.

B

B

Can't hear you, we can't hear you again.

K

Me now now we can hear you yeah yeah, okay,.

K

um Yes, those were both taken in the city, okay, myself, unmuted, because that seems.

K

To be the issue here, amen, that's fine! uh The other question.

B

Is um what do you think the public's.

B

Expectation should be of how quickly the city would.

B

React to infractions of title 12 under the new.

B

Code, like is it right away within a day within a week like how quickly.

B

Will enforce, will enforcement uh be more uh uh prompt.

B

I mean like, should people expect it'll happen.

B

I don't know what to expect.

K

um So enforcement will be on a case-by-case basis.

K

Of course, um we will be, as we do now going around to any sort of.

K

um For example, if we, if a sidewalk closure is approved, we.

K

We go out and we check that that sidewalk closure is being.

K

Maintained properly so at that point in time, if it wasn't.

K

We would be following up on that, and typically.

K

What we try to do is on the very first day of any sort of closure, whether it be.

K

A lane bicycle pedestrian closure go out on the first.

K

Day and catch anything.

B

Great finally, I'd ask: how enthusiastic are you and the rest of.

B

The staff about the effectiveness of.

B

The new title 12 that you're proposing.

K

I think that um I think we're really excited.

K

I know I am, but I mean, can you be more specific at all like do.

B

You feel like this puts teeth into the law. Do you uh do you think.

B

You're going to get compliance, or are you still going to have trouble? I feel like that.

K

This this will help with compliance. um I will say in a lot of cases when you.

K

Ask somebody to fix something: they're, pretty responsive and for those that aren't. I think that.

K

Having a mechanism to uh in place.

K

To kind of make them do, it is what you need, and I think that that's going to be.

K

Very effective, especially with the fines that are going to double.

K

Every day until it is fixed, I feel like that's what we had before is we kind of.

B

Made them do it, but now we make them. Do it. That's what this new.

B

Law is trying to do right, correct. Thank you.

A

Other questions from committee members, mr munson.

G

Yes, um there were some revisions uh since last friday, when the ordinance was.

G

In our council packet, could you just review what the changes were since then.

K

Sure um so the first change was.

K

Just changing all the changes are in the enforcement chapter. The first change is.

K

um Just the sentence at the beginning, um where it's saying.

K

That it's in, if you violate this chapter, I think we had it said if you.

K

Violate this title or something, and we wanted to hone that in to say.

K

If you violate 12.08, then specifically, because otherwise you're.

K

Encompassing the whole chapter and the whole chapter is other.

K

Other chapters of title 12 have their own violation process.

K

Enforcement procedures in place, so that was the first change. The other change.

K

um Was in response to uh some references to the udo um in the.

K

Enforcement section and because.

K

It's not completely necessary to have those there that it's it's a bit of.

K

Redundant um because it is already existing in the udo we decided.

K

It would just be easier to remove that um as part of title 12.

K

And then the other, uh the next change uh would be an addition to.

K

K

Kind of progress so before we did, we said.

K

Twenty five hundred dollars up to seventy five hundred dollars.

K

We've added a a paragraph there that describes how that.

K

Works a little more specifically so that it's not left to interpretation.

K

And I guess I'll add that in that section it does.

K

um Specify that uh so, if the, if the fine is a hundred.

K

Dollars for that day, um then.

K

For a specific violation and that violation continues the next day, then it.

K

Would be 200 the next day would be 400 and so on and.

K

K

I believe that was it and I think one of the specific.

G

Finds was increased right. The failure to maintain approved maintenance of traffic.

G

Plan, yes, thank you. Sorry forgot about that.

K

One uh we did have the failure to maintain um the maintenance.

K

Traffic plan at 100 for the first offense and.

K

The feeling is that the that is not impactful enough.

K

It is a an issue of public safety if that, um if a maintenance traffic plan.

K

Is not maintained properly, so we felt like that.

K

Should be escalated to the same as not having a permit at all.

G

I like it, thank you.

A

Another question: I have a couple very small.

A

Questions slash thoughts. I know we talked about this and we didn't land.

A

Anywhere that the the in excess of 24 hours. But.

A

There are offenders that close sidewalks or walk arounds during the.

A

Daytime and open them back up at night, I just kind of dropped. The ball on that.

A

One, I would say um what, if we added something back in there,.

A

About that, so you know we talked sort of about.

A

The certain number of um closures during a specific time period.

A

So it wouldn't be a an accumulation of hours, but a number of.

A

Closures, so somebody recommended maybe two or more.

A

Periods of any length within a three-day period.

A

As a violation, um something like that, what do you think about that? uh Yeah.

K

I I do remember um that suggestion being made.

K

um I'm not against adding that at this point of that.

K

What is what needs to happen? um uh Yeah if I can just ask a question on.

J

That one um I know, sarah, you can.

J

Weigh in here is it: is it true that if somebody.

J

If a contractor proposed to do that, if they came for the maintenance traffic.

J

Plan that um closed it during the day and opened.

J

It at night, for example- and they wanted to do that just for days on end or weeks.

J

On end, we could we could deny that now or send.

J

Them to the board or something we have the ability to do that we're just not.

J

Required to do it so I think miss rosenberger. You.

J

Are you suggesting there should be something uh specifying that so that.

J

It's not just you know, staff review making that.

J

Decision because I think it's possible like I don't think that.

J

I don't think we're required to give them approval to do that. So I'm saying.

A

Okay, I wasn't saying it should go to the board.

A

I okay so you're, saying.

A

I think what I'm trying to say is it's. It seems like.

A

There isn't a penalty for closing like like short-term random closures,.

A

But maybe there is.

J

You if they had approval, you mean.

A

Yes, so let me move my comment here.

A

Okay, so, okay, it's about providing a walk around right where.

A

Sorry in 12.08.110, where we say if the.

A

If it's necessary to obstruct a sidewalk for a period in excess of 24 hours, the.

A

Party has to provide a walk around, so I I guess what.

A

I'm imagining is, they aren't going to close it for 24.

A

Hours, so what they do is they close the sidewalk for random.

A

Amounts of time during the work days or during the daytime and then open it back up, so they weren't required.

A

To have a walk around or a detour because there's not an in excess of 24.

A

Hours but then there is a lot of time where it's unsafe.

A

Because there's not a sidewalk alternative.

A

Yes, uh so I okay, I'm recalling this uh conversation a little better now.

K

And neil's on the right track. So uh what I? What I recall that is.

K

And what neil's trying to convey is we they will have to apply for a permit to.

K

Do the work that they want to do on the sidewalk and.

K

If, if they're, if we're speaking with them and they're requesting.

K

um In their permit to close the the sidewalk for multiple days in a row.

K

Let's say a week which can be approved at staff.

K

Level and they're saying, but we can open it up.

K

Every night we still have the ability to say that's.

K

Not going to work because that that's still getting into.

K

That 24 hours, uh so so, if we're talking about the 24.

K

Hours being over so many days or the 24 hours being an entire span of.

K

uh Continuous time, either way, um that's something that we can still.

K

On our end, our end have some control over in the permitting process.

K

It's just um does that help, it does.

A

I mean you're, saying it's not in code, but you could say you could tell them.

A

We want you to have a walk around or a detour.

K

But you wouldn't have to tell them sorry: oh yes, don't go ahead. We would always.

K

Have them have a detour if the sidewalk will be closed, so if.

K

There's not a sidewalk on the other side that automatically you have to have a.

K

Walk around because there's no other path.

K

um In in a situation where the cyber on on both sides.

K

They're they're, similar in passability accessibility. I should say.

K

Then, um if it's not for the time period over 24 hours, then we.

K

Can say you can close it for that amount of time, but it has to be reopened after that 24 hours.

K

So so so they always have to have a detour or a walk around.

A

Okay, so you all you make make sure they have one, but it is not.

A

Codified that if it's under 24 hours and it's random closures.

A

It's just sort of a best practice that you all are doing, but it's not I'm pointing up to my other screen. But it's not in here.

A

Right, I think it's codified that they have to.

J

Have something that if, if it's a detour.

J

Instead of a walk around they're still required to do that, because they're still required to follow imutcd and all these other guidelines. It.

J

May not specifically say that if you're closing a sidewalk for only.

J

Eight hours that you have to you still have to have a major traffic plan, but I.

J

Think that that does come through in the in.

J

The ordinance language that they have to do that.

A

Okay: okay, one more tiny thing: I'm gonna reflect on that. Probably.

A

Tomorrow, just because I want to make sure I feel good about that.

A

What do you think about this is something I didn't talk about, but a constituent brought it up. um What do you think about in this same.

A

Section where we say the walk around shall consist of a walk.

A

Not less than five feet what, if we said, eight feet in.

A

The downtown overlay and five feet everywhere else, because.

A

Pro-Wag guidelines.

A

Say eight feet, and maybe we would want to follow that best practice.

K

um Neil, do you uh are you aware of where proag says.

K

The eight foot rule I thought it was four feet and then.

K

Five feet passable zone every 200 feet, which is why we have it, as always as.

K

Five feet in general so that we're not messing with measuring 200 feet.

K

And so on and so forth, but is there something I'm.

J

That would that would be my recollection. I'd be interested to see the.

J

Preference in proag that that notes, ap okay, I can find I can email about it.

A

It's minor, okay, those are my minor questions.

F

Okay, oh miss piedmont, smith, yeah. I wanted to follow up on.

G

Council member rosenbarker's question about the.

G

Less than 24-hour blockage of sidewalk, um so I'm I'm just a little confused. So.

G

In in the code, and if it is revised by this ordinance.

G

A walk around would not be required if the developer intends to only block.

G

The sidewalk less than 24 hours is that correct, that's correct!.

K

Unless there's no other um facility on the other side, which would.

K

You know we would want to walk around in that situation, because there's no other accessible path.

G

And that's required in code.

K

I guess which um you mean the part about if no sidewalk on the other side.

G

Of the street, then they have to do a walk around.

K

Yes, because that's why the references to the ime tcd.

K

And proag guidelines are in there that parrot the ada accessibility.

K

Guidelines that require there to be.

K

A pass, an accessible path for pedestrians,.

K

In the event, their the pedestrian path is closed.

G

Okay, so let me give you another example. So then, if there's a developer, who says.

G

Well, it's going to take a week and we need to.

G

Close that sidewalk for that period, but there's a sidewalk on the other side.

G

Of the street, in that case, are they still required to.

G

Do a walk around because it's more than 24 hours.

G

Correct: okay,.

J

There are some caveats, of course, depending on the context if, if.

J

Staff had concerns about pedestrian safety in a walk around for some reason.

J

If there was construction, you know reaching across the walk around.

J

Or you know whatever, then staff could require something else.

J

But the code default is that, yes, a walk around would be required.

G

And what what would protect pedestrians if.

G

Like, let's say the developer said, you know we're never going to block the.

G

Sidewalk more than 24 hours, so don't worry about it and then for four or five hours every day. The.

G

Neighbors notice that hey this is blocked. I can't.

G

Safely, get by here is there any recourse that the city has.

G

And does it depend on whether that neighbor could cross the street and go the other side.

K

I just want to repeat back the question so if they, if they have approval to.

K

Close the sidewalk or you're saying, if they don't have.

K

Approval because they're saying we're not going to close it, they don't have approval to close the sidewalk okay. So in that case,.

K

um I I would hope that that.

K

Constituent would reach out to the city and say you know, maybe.

K

Their e-report system or call, and let us know.

K

um Otherwise, I I hope that you know we would be checking that site.

K

um And seeing what's going on as well um and in the in those cases.

K

A picture is great um because it it gives a time stamp and and.

K

Shows what's happening and then that's how we would follow up.

K

With a violation so and the the uh developer would be.

G

In violation, even if it's just for like an hour.

G

Yes, okay, they, you should have a permit, no matter how.

K

Much time you're closing the sidewalk.

A

I want to follow up on that, okay, so there is, we basically have two different.

A

Things happening here where you need a permit if you're going to close any sidewalk at any time and then, if it's over 24 hours, you need.

A

To walk around so I think.

A

What we don't really plan for I'm sorry to say this again.

A

Is the okay because, let's say right, someone doesn't say they're going to.

A

Close the sidewalk and then they do it randomly throughout day work days. Okay,.

A

They can be fined for that, but if they close it enough.

A

They're not getting fined for not having a walk around or detour.

A

And and they're not providing that walk around or detour.

A

And so that is what I'm confused about, because it.

A

That is not in this section of code, if it.

A

Is somewhere else? Okay, but like should that.

A

Be in this section of code that if you are going to do multiple.

A

Closures, you have to have a walk around or a detour.

K

I I feel, like that's a two-part question, are you you're asking.

K

If they, if they do a closure without approval.

K

And they don't have a walk around your concern. Is we can't find them for both.

K

A

I would I don't mind about defining just that.

A

They, the penalties, just that I don't think in code. It says if you're.

A

Going to do multiple closures, you have to have a walk around.

A

It just says: if you do a closure, you're going to be.

A

Fined without a permit.

A

But we don't require a walk around or detour.

A

With multiple closures that are not in excess of 24 hours,.

K

Okay, so you're saying that if a if a contractor comes forward with a.

J

Permit request and says I want to close the sidewalk.

J

For six hours on day, one and six hours on day, two and you know.

J

Et cetera, but it doesn't add up to more than 24 hours.

J

um Or it's you know just little bits each day.

J

Is your concern that that does not require a walk around.

F

Yeah- and I think sarah correct me, I think.

J

I think that that that's correct the code language does not state.

J

That it requires a walk around, but staff has the ability and code says.

J

Staff has this ability to to say you know. That's.

J

You know in this context that you should be doing a walk around or what you're.

J

Proposing is not meeting the spirit of uh traffic control, best practices, we're.

J

Gonna, have you put in a walk around, so staff can still say.

J

You propose doing this on all of these days.

J

Instead, we're going to tell you to do a walk around.

J

But code doesn't say: I think that it has to be a walk around if they do those.

J

Short little bits spread out. Is that accurate? Sir? That's that's.

K

Accurate, so I guess, but that could only go you.

K

Know depending on, if they say eight hours, so what um three.

K

Three days they could do that in a row.

K

With a detour instead of a walk around, if it's maybe an eight hour day,.

K

um Do you think that that is acceptable or.

K

Not acceptable again, keeping in mind what neil said.

K

Which we can say, that's not acceptable. We we can still.

K

A

Well, actually, I would like to ask you guys that that.

A

I mean how do you feel about only having the one part in code about in excess of.

A

24 hours but then.

A

You know it's not clear if a walk-around is needed for anything.

A

Any multiple day closures.

K

um I I think it you know, for certain situations.

K

um You know maybe on a cul-de-sac somewhere.

K

Or uh something of that nature, um maybe where it's lower pedestrian.

K

Volume not in the downtown area, not in.

K

A highly walkable space.

K

I think it would be a consideration, depending on the type of work they're.

K

Doing and how what you know, how they're going to get their equipment into that area. So it's about the context of the.

K

Situation more than anything so.

F

Yeah that that's what I'm that's, what makes it comfortable is having that.

K

Ability to go in this situation that doesn't make sense.

J

I can just just add a little on to that one of the one of the struggles.

J

Throughout this whole update for us has been: how can we be.

J

Specific enough, you know to get what we want and require.

J

What we want, without uh you know, being so specific that we're.

J

Having unintended consequences, you know it's hard to write a code for something.

J

Like this, that accounts for every single context and situation.

J

So we're kind of trying to find this balance between you know being pretty.

J

Specific but allowing you know, opportunities for.

J

Staff to say you know no, this, this doesn't feel.

J

Right, you need to do something more or no. This isn't required.

J

um And I I think I think staff feels like we have it set up where it's.

J

um It's in a pretty good spot it it generally, you know, especially the walk.

J

Around section that it defaults to walk around, it's got a lot of clear guidance.

J

In there about why that should be and the requirements for it, but it does give flexibility if there.

J

Are safety concerns uh or if they want to go to the board of public works and.

J

Say that the context says this shouldn't be necessary.

J

So to the 24-hour question: it's you know, it could be something different. uh This.

J

Is kind of an attempt to balance.

F

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, I'm I'm a little confused for the 24.

G

Hours because it sounds like in the ordinance that it's I.

G

Would from reading it.

G

If it's necessary to obstruct or block a sidewalk for a period in excess of 24,.

G

Hours that certainly reads to me that it's 24.

G

Consecutive hours, and not that it's eight hours over three days.

G

But I I thought I heard sarah or neil say that it.

G

Would add up? Is that the intention that it would add up to 24 hours or.

K

I think in general, like we want to say, 24 hours, solid time period.

K

But again it comes back to context of a situation.

K

And if it's going to be.

K

A situation where it closes for eight hours for three days in a row.

K

To accommodate some work so that they can get in and out.

K

um That's what we're tr! Those are. The types of situations we're trying to.

K

At least give some wiggle room, uh like like neil, said to.

K

To give context to certain situations and not pin ourselves into.

K

A corner, okay, so just to be clear. The requirement for the walk around is only.

G

If it's 24 consecutive hours, but staff has the discretion that even if.

G

It's you know, four days of six hours a day you could.

G

Still require it is that.

J

Correct, I think, that's that's how I read it.

G

Okay, thank you.

A

Further questions.

A

We could pause and go to public comment. I think.

A

Okay; okay, if you are here to comment on warning, 20-21.

A

Please raise your hand so far. I see mr alexander's.

A

Hand raised: um oh okay, there's mr lucas.

L

Yes, mr alexander, should be able to unmute himself awesome thanks.

I

uh I'm greg alexander, um I gotta say it's: it's really great to see that.

I

For example, the failure to maintain approved maintenance, the traffic plan.

I

Fee fine, I guess was raised, I guess from 100 500 that hasn't been in any of.

I

The drafts I saw and I was prepared to recommend that kind of change.

I

um And it's also great to see that a stop work order is finally actually in.

I

The arsenal, um I hope staff will be able to.

I

Recognize when uh the contractor is in transition.

I

Because, oh man, so I mean I really my biggest.

I

Criticism about the engineering department- uh and you know this has been touched upon in the in the budget hearings.

I

Is that they're they're, just not very um straightforward communicators.

I

uh When their plan doesn't meet our goals,.

I

um And I I'm a straightforward communicator: I got to be real, clear.

I

About something none of this is personal. I have interacted with with several generations of public improvements managers. I've interacted with several generations of, for example, department of public works heads and they all have these same flaws.

I

And so I just want to draw your attention to: uh was it section 1208.

I

110, uh at the end of that paragraph, it says the board of public works may.

I

Require a pedestrian detour in place of a walk-around based on the.

I

Context of the construction site, I think you should simply strike that. I.

I

Think there are honestly a lot of contexts where it doesn't really make.

I

Sense to have a walk around, for example a neighborhood street, but the engineering judgment shown by the.

I

Public improvements manager uniformly for at least a decade, has just been.

I

The worst possible judgment, specifically the heuristic, I think.

I

The person in that position winds up using is that, if there's a lot of cars.

I

And it would inconvenience the drivers to have a walk around then we shouldn't.

I

Have a walk around, and that is the exact opposite of a safe policy. That is exactly the opposite of a.

I

Professionally competent policy there has been an enormous.

I

Enormous failure on this front consistently, they have almost always.

I

Said you can close the sidewalk if it's on college and I would say the opposite, you could never.

I

Ever close a sidewalk on college and require a pedestrian to cross college.

I

They say if it's on far west 3rd street, where there's no sidewalks.

I

And there's no um or there's there's no connecting sidewalks.

I

And there, then we don't need a walk around. That's the logic we've been using.

I

So far, um and that is exactly the wrong logic.

I

And you guys need to outlaw that logic in an act of.

I

Of in an ordinance or I I just I really I'd love to know,.

I

Will staff actually use any of these powers that they're given.

I

um Another process you guys need to be aware of is how the complaints happen.

I

I file an awful large number of you reports personally.

I

But I walk through construction sites where I have to walk with my kids in the.

I

Street about 10 times, as often as I file your reports, every construction site has daily.

I

Blockages of the sidewalk they always ignore their mut and staff has overseen.

I

This process for years with different staff members and every one of them has always been satisfied with this complete.

I

And abject failure so I'd like to see some change, I'm.

I

Really excited that there might be some change, but if I walk with my kids 10 times before I file your report and someone.

I

Else how many other people walk on these? Probably 10 people walk there for every.

I

Time I walk there so there's a hundred people that have walked in the street.

I

Before one new report gets filed, I want to make sure that staff sees that your.

I

Report and that that becomes effective enforcement that it doesn't.

I

That it's not like staff, goes out the next day and sees oh well. They fixed it.

I

So I'm not even going to write a notice of violation, 100.

I

Pedestrians have walked in the street and college before the first. Your report was filed and.

I

Staff needs to respond to that as an emergency as a public health emergency.

I

And I want to one more piece of process: I got to draw your attention to.

I

I

People are willing to pay for public use or use of the public right of way.

I

um There's a project on kirkwood. I think it's supposed to be going on.

I

Right right now, but I haven't seen it a private project. They wanted to use.

I

Four parking spaces: they were going to block the sidewalk and part of the.

I

Street and said that would take out four parking spaces and there they agreed to pay twenty eight thousand and five hundred and.

I

Seventy dollars to block those spaces, so developers are.

I

Willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to use the sidewalk and if they can just get by with maybe a 500.

I

Fine once or twice over the life of the project, that is a tremendous bargain for.

I

Them they need to feel like. It is a real urgent problem that they will get a step work order on the first violation, or they will simply ignore it, because a 500.

I

Fine, they that's just the way of construction sites. Somebody makes a.

I

Mistake somebody sneezes on this brand new material and you just lost 500.

I

That happens every day at a big construction site. We need to actually.

I

Make it feel like an emergency to the construction workers and not merely a.

I

Well, I got to use this parking space for 20 consecutive days.

I

That's actually a sidewalk, and then I finally had to pay a fine for it. They.

I

Look at that and that's an acceptable ratio. They make that as a rational business decision. They just live with it. So I'm sorry to be down on this. I'm.

I

Really excited that there may finally be teeth, but I have just seen no evidence that staff is willing to admit that they.

I

Simply were not enforcing any of these laws at all forever and we are in a crisis situation now.

I

And without that admission I can't have any faith that there's going to be.

I

Progress thanks for your time. Thank you, mr alexander. Are there any.

A

Other comments.

A

And then we'll go to mr bowen. um I'm.

B

I don't agree with mr alexander's assessment. First, I think the.

B

Presentation was very thorough, very well done, and I appreciate it.

B

Secondly, um I certainly don't think present company is.

B

Incapable of communicating I've felt like I've gotten clearer answers.

B

Tonight than I ever have from anyone involved in engineering at the city.

B

So so far I'm encouraged very encouraged. um I think that uh also mr alexander.

B

Underestimates um the power of higher fines of 2500.

B

Fines I mean I keep going back to the noise ordinance. It was.

B

As unenforceable as the excavation ordinance was.

B

Until we got rid of the complicated rules for measuring noise.

B

And we said first find 50 second find 100. Third, fine.

B

And future fines 500 if the city has written any 500.

B

Fines, I can't think of them: okay, because the.

B

Once or twice is enough people get the message.

B

I I do share some concern about, and this is.

B

What led to a question I asked before about.

B

uh At what you know like, how will the initial context be done, but I think that.

B

uh Engineering staff has said pretty clearly we haven't had the tools to do.

B

Enforcement and that's why we've we see the behavior.

B

Reflected among uh contractors they just like it's.

B

Cost of doing business they just uh don't need to worry about it too much so.

B

I'm I'm very encouraged, but I also um certainly have heard enough concern.

B

From a couple of my colleagues here to think that I mean if this is not ready, let's have a second committee meeting.

B

And uh tweak the things that concern councilmembers.

B

Rosenberger or piedmont smith, um you know I I do want.

B

To get it right this time, and I want to know that city.

B

Staff feel confident to enforce the law like.

B

They they, you know, I don't want to say, enthusiastic about it, but I mean you know.

B

I I can say that I'm used to occasional lackadaisical enforcement of.

B

Certain city code- and I know that that breeds sort of.

B

Lack of faith in the city code, but I I so that's why I'm kind of.

B

Ambivalent here, uh for the most part, I am.

B

You know uh excited about this. I just want to feel.

B

More confident that um not just that there are teeth in the law, but they'll.

B

They'll chomp down on somebody. I said mickey shark metaphor here.

B

I don't want to be baby shark anymore. I want to be, you know, daddy shark, let's.

B

Let's, let's uh bite down an enforcement? Thank you. Thank you.

A

Okay, I I think I would like to hear what other.

A

Committee members think on that are others ready to wrap it up tonight.

A

Or do you would you like to work on it over the next couple weeks.

H

I think uh wrapping it up is a good idea. I think it's ready.

H

To uh go to this, and then I I would guess.

H

Miss gomez and mr copper would come back and say they needed tweaked in a.

H

Different way looks like there's been a lot of good.

H

Work done on it.

H

So I I leave the judgment to the experts in the city and.

H

I think I'm I'm pretty happy with it.

F

Okay, thank you, mr p. Montmartre.

G

um I really do appreciate all the the work that has gone into this and.

G

I think that um it's a a wonderful move in the right.

G

Direction um but I would like to uh have another.

G

Committee meeting there are just a few details that I'd.

G

Like to review and see, if we can make make things a little bit stronger to.

G

Protect pedestrian safety.

F

Okay, thank you. I had a couple other questions.

A

To ask, but I think, um since more folks are.

A

Wanting to go to a second meeting, all none of those right now.

A

um And I think honestly, if anyone wants to say.

A

Anything else we can, or else we can just plan on.

A

Reconvening at the next option at the next opportunity have a.

A

Committee meeting, which is.

B

The 21st to the 28th.

L

I believe it's the 28th okay.

A

Okay, so any other comments, questions that mr copper, I'm just gonna.

J

Ask um does do committee members anticipate.

J

Sending questions or suggestions to staff in advance of that meeting on the.

J

28Th, I I don't feel like we have a good sense of what you're looking for.

A

Yes, so I could compile and um I think maybe what we could try that.

A

What we could aim for is to get it all worked out and then review.

A

It at the next committee meeting right and.

A

Have it ready for approval, mr boland? Well, I I would just uh caution that I.

B

Mean I think what you're talking about is amendments and to simply put uh over the next.

B

Normally, to two weeks between uh committees, now it's three but.

B

Over the next week or two um you know, members should get help.

B

Articulating uh what they want to amend and uh develop.

B

Language that can then be given to staff by a week before the committee hearing.

B

So that way they they can respond to it properly and be.

B

Prepared to talk about it on the 28th, so really, if you, if you're.

B

Seeking amendments you should have them done by the 21st.

F

F

A

Okay, so thank you for coming tonight and I'm excited yeah. Sorry do we need a.

G

Motion to continue this discussion to the 28th or.

G

We don't, I don't think so. It's already scheduled.

L

The absence of a duke pass motion means that the committee will have a second.

L

Meeting on the 28th, and certainly if there are amendments.

L

Prepared ahead of that, we will distribute those in the.

L

Council's legislative packet and share those with staff and the public if there are written questions and answers that the.

L

Committee members are formulating and staff provides. We can also post those publicly so that the public. I can see that.

L

Exchange as well.

B

I just got to ask: does staff understand the process that I just.

B

K

I I just had a question about so at the next committee meeting.

K

Then we would just be discussing the amendments.

K

um And not going through the full presentation at that time again.

B

That's right, correct, yeah! Thank you. Thank you, everybody. I would want to.

A

Promise a time limit, but I can't I can't.

A

Understood: okay; okay! Thank you! So much for being here and working.

A

On this, it's been really a great process so far. I think.

K

Thank you. Okay, I hear there's a presidential debate is that true.

G

Vice presidential vice president, oh vice okay, I see that I don't want to.

A

Watch it okay. Well, thank you, everyone. I think we can wrap up for today and see you in three weeks.

A

Okay, thank you, okay, good night. Thank you.

D

D