City of Bloomington, Indiana Historic Preservation Commission, 13 Feb 2020

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From YouTube: Bloomington Historic Preservation Commission, February 13, 2020

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meeting agenda: https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=5464

A

Oh good evening, I want to call the bloomington historic preservation.

B

Commission meeting to order, thank you thank you for coming tonight.

B

It's your roll call, doug bruce here, sandesh all right here.

C

Susan dire deb, huglin lease and wise john saunders here.

A

Krister ball here duncan campbell arnesto castaneda, dairy richie.

C

Jenny seller, okay,.

B

Sam did doug bruce steen santa solar, yes, susan eyre abstain.

D

Jeff gold. Yes, please same voice, yes, john saunders. Yes,.

C

Krista boehm, yes, motion carries 5:02 great, then we're gonna have a little.

B

Change in our agenda this evening, we're gonna go down to old business and we're.

B

Going to start with the courtesy review of the kiln rehab project and I think.

B

That we have mr. brown here to give us.

E

This meeting, as far as I know before so the first thing I want to say is thank.

E

All of you for your service to the community. Some of you are mayoral.

E

Appointments and all of you who helped do great things for the city. I really.

E

Appreciate your you're a highly paid service on this board. I know it's really.

E

Important to the community, I want to thank you, and I just want to make a few.

E

Comments introducing this topic, the courtesy review, thank connor too, for.

E

Your help on this 20 25 years ago, the city 25 years ago, as a part of a.

E

Partnership, private and public launched a plan to purchase the long-neglected.

E

Campus of this great furniture company that operated in our city with the.

E

Purpose of repurposing the collection of buildings that were part of our past and.

E

Rejuvenating an area that had been underutilized, the first step of that was.

E

The rehabilitation of this building plant number one in the 1990s that.

E

Restored the historic shower brothers, factory, building, meeting federal, big.

E

Rigorous federal standards is now a gold leed certified building that we sit in.

E

That was a two and a half million dollar purchase price 25 years ago. That's.

E

Pretty good, there was another 28 million to complete.

E

The renovation of 200,000 square foot facility, part of.

E

Which was paid by the city and others that became known as the miracle on.

E

Morton street, which is exciting. We once had green towers here. I will remind.

E

People that would that have been removed and then, a few years after that, 1995.

E

Hyerin's and company purchased the furniture showroom known as the sample.

E

Building with a three million dollar investment and also renovated it for use.

E

Of their offices now with solution tree september of 2011, so not quite 10 years.

E

Ago the city purchased 12 acres for the trades district and by two years ago, or.

E

Late 2018, the city had facilitated the rehabilitation of the dimension mill and.

E

The investment in all that infrastructure around to a tune of about.

E

Fifteen million dollars to restore and activate that part of the campus and the.

E

Major new physical infrastructure, as you know, the award-winning mill project.

E

Converted a very unused and derelict building into a startup incubator.

E

Beautiful space, I'm sure the hope, I'm sure you've all been in it. It's actually.

E

The indiana's fastest growing cowork space in history, it's been very.

E

Successful and a keystone to our tech park with the adaptive reuse of the kiln.

E

And what we believe is imminent restoration and reuse of the.

E

Administration building on morton, we have an opportunity to once again.

E

Validate the progressive idea that historic preservation can and should.

E

Contribute to the continuity and the economic well-being of our community. Now.

E

Two years ago, some of you may remember the city approached this historic.

E

Preservation committee commission to evaluate the possibility of removing the.

E

Kiln because, while we at that time expected and and today expect the reuse.

E

Of the administration building the admin building based on market feedback, we.

E

Believe the kiln at that time likely would not find an investor for reuse. We.

E

Thought, yes, admin. Obviously we directly invested in the.

E

In the mill, but we were really thinking that the kiln was likely not going to be.

E

Able to be reused from an investor, but today we are very pleased and excited to.

E

Have an opportunity that allows us not just to save the building but to refit.

E

It and repurpose it thereby cementing that buildings future and reactivating.

E

It as a really valuable contributor to the bloomington economic vitality.

E

Converting the kiln into commercial space will be synergistic with the mill.

E

Because the proximity of the kiln makes it an ideal space for businesses in the.

E

Mill to grow into as they expand, you'll hear more about that we have them as you.

E

Probably know the mill is full their waiting lists there. We want the chance.

E

For companies to move out into a kind of more permanent space, if you will also.

E

The kiln creates a great opportunity for retail and restaurant spaces.

E

Complementing the energy of the existing brewery on the other side of 11th street.

E

The utilization of this building is commercial. Space makes a lot of sense.

E

For the city in the area, it also represents the first of what we interest.

E

People will be many private that is non municipal investments in the in the.

E

Trades district, but the adaptive reuse of the kiln into commercial space poses.

E

Different and maybe more difficult challenges than those earlier projects.

E

This building was not constructed to house people but to dry lumber. It does.

E

Not have any windows or any facilities to accommodate a workforce and therefor.

E

Compared to previous our campus rehabilitation projects, the adaptive.

E

Reuse of the kiln will require more substantial changes to the building.

E

Itself, because it was not designed with the light and space necessary for human.

E

Activity and I think importantly to note- the optimal outcome here is for the kiln.

E

To be used not to sit vacant or to be demolished, which is frankly, I will tell.

E

You personally, I I kind of thought that was where we were headed a couple of.

E

Years ago, given the cost of the building and the way.

E

The hood of the I thought we could save the the admin building which I do, but I.

E

Didn't I didn't think we could so I'm really pleased that we have an.

E

Opportunity here I I appreciate your expertise and advising.

E

On the design of additions and alterations to the historic building, I.

E

Would ask that you also consider what it requires from an investment standpoint.

E

To make this rehabilitation work, this is an incredible opportunity for our.

E

Community, I believe, which has also, as you know, made a major financial.

E

Investment in in this area and to connect it with the the mill and the.

E

Growth of jobs downtown in the trades district is very exciting. The the.

E

Challenge is to balance our ambitions for the future of our community, while.

E

Respecting its past and my urgent hope and encouragement is that both the.

E

Historic preservation, commission and the kiln collective the group ready to buy.

E

The building will work together to find that feasible solution that activates.

E

And gives new life to this very difficult building, honoring its past and.

E

Connecting it to the exciting future of the trades district, the spirit of the.

E

Miracle on morton is alive and the trade sadistic ready to go forward. I one.

E

Personal suggestion that I'll throw out and not as an expert but just a personal.

E

Suggestion I do think it would be really exciting to have a curated series of.

E

Historic markers boards interpretive signage that can connect the kiln the.

E

Mill, the factory, the railroad and to and to both for interpretive signs of this.

E

Building and and beyond, to kind of give the flow of this of this campus, which is.

E

An incredible asset, so I appreciate your attention and I'll hand it over to.

E

People who know more than I but thank you for your work here and I hope we can.

E

Make this project succeed, I think it'll be a great thing for the community.

E

Thanks a lot thanks.

F

Lucas gets up here- I just wanted to I'm gonna, take no more than two or three.

F

Minutes here just to explain who the killing collective is and why we are.

F

Drawn to to invest in the killin building, so the killin collective is.

F

What we've called ourselves? It's eight local residents who who own businesses.

F

Some of which are established businesses, some of which are startup businesses.

F

Some of which are currently in the mill operating out of the mill and have quite.

F

Frankly, outgrown their space in the mill or outgrown what the size of company.

F

That was targeted to be in the mill, and so all of the the local residents will.

F

Be owner occupants of of the kiln, and so you know that will have a very vested.

F

Interest in in the outcome and the quality of the space and the.

F

Construction, our intent is to, as the mayor said, can make this a graduation.

F

Space for companies coming out of the rather generic mill, you know, there's no.

F

Shingles for individual companies hanging on the outside of the mill, the.

F

Goal is for a company that has grown and needs a space that they can call their.

F

Own and hang their shingle and get their name more well-established. That they'll have the opportunity to do that in here.

F

The four bays on the main level, therefore, those will be occupied by tech.

F

Startups- and so you know this being the tech park and this being the the main.

F

Focus that this building is provide that graduation space for growing tech.

F

Companies, so that's who's involved as to why we are drawn to this and why we.

F

Submitted a proposal I mean we wrote for local residents, you know and we've lived.

F

Here a long time, gonna live here a long time. We know the.

F

Historical significance of the showers brothers furniture factory to.

F

Bloomington and the economic engine that it was back in the day and that's our.

F

Goal is to return the kiln to being an economic growth engine for the tech.

F

Parking for bloomington, the goal is to have the kiln and the mill remain.

F

Connected or go back to being connected, we used to have a flow of materials.

F

Through the kiln to the mill, we're gonna, keep that we're just gonna reverse it.

F

Now it'll be coming from the mill back to the kiln, so you'll see here in our.

F

Show slide show you know some ways that we want to try to accomplish that. We.

F

Have met with the marty, the local showers brothers, a historian and expert.

F

And we've had some good discussions about. You know coming up with possibly a.

F

Walking trail that starts up just north of 11th street, where the logs were.

F

Unloaded and then having it so that you can walk from there all the way down to.

F

The city building and just walk through the process of how furniture was made.

F

When it was the showers brothers factory, you know we could explain how things.

F

Move in and out of these bays at the kiln and then how the carrier just took.

F

Them right into the mill so there's an opportunity for education. There's an.

F

Opportunity also for some forestry education with our plantings we've you.

F

Can see around that we've grade them out in front of the building, so it doesn't hide the building there. But you know our intent is to plant we've been talking to.

F

The urban forester about what trees to plant there, our intent, would be to plant.

F

Trees that would have been used in the manufacturing of the furniture, hopefully.

F

And so people can see see those and it also they also start some very.

F

Functional have a good function for our building in.

F

The way we've designed- and we want that historical red brick structure- to stand.

F

Proud that is going to be what catches your eye, that's going to be the the main.

F

Thing you see is that that red brick and we're also very dedicated to keeping the.

F

Five bay's that were historically part of the structure intact.

F

It just ironically, works out as a about the right size space you need for, for a.

F

Growing company, so that's our goal is to maintain them those five days as we move.

F

Forward because we think that is also integral to the historical significance.

F

In it makes telling the story of the showers brothers a little bit easier as.

F

Well, so with that, I will get out of the way and I'm gonna let lucas brown come.

F

On up and you can walk through the slideshow. Thank you. Everybody.

G

Name is lucas brown, with brown smith studios collaborating with bailey wyler.

G

On the structure architecture, I want to echo damaris comments. Thank you for your.

G

Service and for the important jobs you're doing and maintaining the.

G

Historic integrity of bloomington, I think it's very important and I really appreciate what you're doing and I'm looking forward to hearing your feedback on this project. It's it's a tricky one. So I'll walk through what we've gone.

G

Through up to date, late into the building design, you'll get some feedback.

G

And maybe we'll have a chance to see that game tonight. So the first thing is.

G

That we're working we're working with the rhythm of the existing structure.

G

That has this: it's load-bearing masonry at its.

G

Thickest the walls are about 26 inches wide wide. The brick masonry going down a.

G

Very substantial foundations- we've gone through it with the structural engineer.

G

We feel like it's stable enough to carry the three stories and we can also add in a little additional structure if we need to, but we have this rhythm of the facade.

G

And the articulation of the brick and and in a preservation project we're.

G

Adding to it, we want to differentiate from the existing structure. We don't.

G

Want to replicate it or mimic it right, so we're going to come in with another.

G

Structure it plays off of that rhythm, so, instead of creating a strong structural.

G

Element at those divisions we're actually creating a void, pushing the.

G

Glazing back and exposing a wood surround on those windows so, on the.

G

North side of the building, where we have these larger expressions, we have these.

G

Larger picture frame windows that are set back into the facade with wood.

G

Around the inside of the glazing and then periodic windows in between those.

G

Main windows, the third floor, were stepping back and we're putting on an.

G

Overhang to protect the roof deck area to the south side and also to.

G

Differentiate and step it back from the bottom, the building, so we're really trying to step it back to lower the scale of the building.

G

We're creating a continuity with materials, not just with the mill with.

G

The vertical standing, seam siding, but also with the far gallery, which was.

G

Recently done as historic project commissioned that uses the materials of.

G

Wood, a dark metal panel siding with the existing red brick, which I'll show here.

G

In a minute, we're really.

G

Focusing on the public space on the north side and the west side of the.

G

Building building off of this really great project that is madison and the.

G

Public space there and creating a plaza between madison street and the building.

G

In the center of the building, that is more of a public plaza and on the north.

G

Side of the building and the north bay would be so much. I would be a little bit.

G

More of a private garden plaza where you could go and have your coffee and tea.

G

We're working as don said with native trees, hoping for shagbark hickory that.

G

Could be oaks or other types of trees that were traditionally used and we're.

G

Also planning for a sawtooth roof with instead of light solar panels, I'm.

G

Mimicking the sawtooth of the mill, the story of the showers brother campos,.

G

Showers, brothers, complex above on leben's street, you had the stockyard.

G

With the logs that come down into the kiln and then end of the mill, and so.

G

We're building on that flow of materials and we're creating a very strong axis.

G

From the mill through the kiln site, up to 11th street, where we're gonna make a.

G

Connection back to the sidewalk and how don said we have a reversal of the.

G

Economic activity, but he left out the fact that you go from the middle into.

G

The kiln, where your space grows a little bit and then across the street, to upland.

G

Where you can build some social capital.

G

So here's what it looks like on site. You can see the opening in the mill where.

G

The cars would go from the kiln in the vanillin, so we're drawing that axis.

G

Through the site, so that would be the main sidewalk that comes up to 11th street, with connections back to each one of the bays and then the larger public.

G

Plaza space would be between that main axis and what's.

G

On madison street recently took a trip to portland and was looking at precedent.

G

There it's a city that has an urban growth boundary and a lot of historic.

G

Structures, so I was looking at how the building's actually grew in portland and.

G

Found this project down in the pearl district and I think it's just a really.

G

Nice example of having a historic, lower level and then stepping the building.

G

Back creating an overhang, it's very warm. It was a dark rainy day in portland, as.

G

They usually are, but you can kind of make out the wood soffit with the lights.

G

Up there and the elevator tower off on the far side of the building clad and a.

G

Darker metal panel, that would be a flush metal panel, which is similar to what we.

G

Were would be planning this building in terms of scale? This is viewing the.

G

Building from rogers, and you can see that it meets the zoning ordinance.

G

Guidelines for stepping the building down next to a historic structure so.

G

That we're not more than one story above the historic structure to the south. It.

G

Also allows that light to come into the sawtooth roof in the mill building. It's.

G

Not blocking too much there and then that's a going to be roof. Patio above.

G

The second floor, so you can walk out of a third floor into that roof. Petia. You.

G

Can see the existing buildings above it's actually dwarfed by the buildings.

G

In the background, really even at three storeys, so just to give you a sense of.

G

Scale from this perspective again looking at precedent, this is the far.

G

With historic red brick, the metal panel siding and then the new addition which.

G

Is the gate project that has wood louvers panels looking a little bit.

G

Closer at the far, and also at the mill that the vertical standing, seam siding.

G

On both of the projects and how that works nicely with a brick- and this is.

G

Viewing the project from the four perspectives.

G

We've been looking at it from the northwest upper right. When you look at.

G

It from northeast this actually becomes somewhat of a prominent vantage point as.

G

You take if you as you go west on 11th street from college. It is a pretty.

G

Important view, because we're building on top of an existing structure, we want to.

G

Minimize the weight that goes on top of the comb itself that, along the alley.

G

We're putting in new retaining walls and foundations for the stairs, and so we.

G

Feel like we can bring some masonry in along the backside of the building, so.

G

This would probably be lighter great call, it could be, limestone could be a.

G

Wider a great brick and then on the bottom right. It shows the the powerhouse.

G

Is what they call it, which is a little addition off to the backside of the comb.

G

That power space itself with that of just elevations again showing the.

G

Relationship mainly between the mill and the comb and then looking at the comb.

G

From 11th street.

H

So I have some questions around space and sounds like there was always some.

H

Tenants, so it has five spaces on the first floor. What's this for the second.

H

And third floor spaces, 2,000 square foot space and then one smaller 12 to 1,300.

G

Square feet base on the third floor would be another space business space.

G

That would be about 1,200 square feet and about a 600 square foot conference.

G

Room that has been discussed as a kind of a flex space that you know could be.

G

Overflow for the mill could be used by any number of the any of the businesses.

G

And the project itself in the conference room would be directly adjacent to the.

G

Roof deck area, one of the some of the feedback we've gotten from the mill is.

F

That the conference rooms there I mean, since it's grown so quickly and is so.

F

Busy that it's difficult to get conference rooms there, sometimes one of.

F

The requests was if we could offer overflow, you know, conference space or.

F

You know meeting space gathering space. That was one of the requests, but it.

F

Could certainly be you know, another business suite.

H

That's all for nagas, so I just want to know about the details.

I

Of the open spaces, where the old doors were, I is that glass or is that solid.

I

Panel with door in it or what are those pants.

G

The if we look at here you're talking about the main base, five yeah yeah, it.

I

Would be storefront probably with the darker frame solid panel on the bottom.

G

And I would like to see what doors, but it's a western facing facade and you.

G

Might have to go, but a lot of that's all glazing that yeah. It looks like glazing.

I

I was just wanting to make sure the ones and then we would open up the north side.

G

Of the building right now we're showing one overhead door and some and then one.

G

Storefront, where, where are you pointing? Where are you pointing to there yeah.

G

Right yeah, so nice light and then we'd open up. The powerhouse to there are.

G

Really no windows in the powerhouse now so some nice, nice windows, east side,.

G

There, okay: what's the distance of those cut, the board and batten? Look in the.

I

Metal panels that'd be a 16 the on the mill currently there's 16 inch. That's a.

G

16 inch rib, so right now we've been researching product. We can get a 16 inch.

G

Rib on the standing, seam no problem and then the flush metal panel might need to.

G

Be a 12 inch.

F

Yeah well means, obviously, at this point we're working through. You know this will.

F

Have to go to the state will are also researching potential tax credits.

F

Through iedc, so part of it will be, you know what their timeline is. You know the.

F

Hope would be that I mean the goal is to start as soon as as possible. You know.

F

But you know if it's the second half of this year, it just depends on you know.

F

How quickly we can get through all of the various state committees and.

F

Approvals but our there's really no reason to delay it other than just.

F

Making sure we have all of our ducks in a row before we get started.

A

No questions, so the structure sets back at the first floor, just a smidge, a.

J

Little bit and you've also talked about the structure, the institution structure.

J

Being in good enough structural shape to carry three floors, so I'm curious as to.

J

What the setback does why it's there.

J

We're acquiring away from an existing building in order to have any openings.

G

On the second floor, so so I do have two or we do have to set the second floor.

G

Back on the middle side, on the 11th street side, it just makes sense to step.

G

It back a little bit. We do have 26 inch wide walls, so if we bring the second.

G

Floor just up to the inside of the wall, I feel like we're still going to be able.

G

To you know, carry that, carry that second floor without much of a problem. We're.

G

Gonna be close enough to the wall to do that, and all this structure for the.

G

Second floor, I want to get too much into details, but it's all going to be running.

G

Lengthwise so essentially, each one of the bays of the lower building will be.

G

Carrying the ends of joists for the upper level, so the joists will be.

G

Basically, bearing on those masonry walls in the middle, so on the west side,.

G

There's no advantage to coming and putting any more weight on that west.

G

Wall I mean they're large spans to begin with and they're opening on the.

G

Storefront so that step back, I'm not really concerned about the other.

G

Setbacks on the north and south side, you know we'll just have to do a little.

G

Structural gymnastics to make sure we can carry those loads onto those masonry.

G

Walls yeah, so the the second floor setback is it's inspired by a zoning.

J

Condition is what you're saying in the structural condition. I we want to.

G

Differentiate from the first level, so by stepping it back, even you know, 12 to 18.

G

Inches it allows that lower to really stand out as that historic.

G

Element, rather than building directly on top of the wall and making it feet.

G

Making it feel like a continuation, I feel like it, will separate those well a.

G

Little bit more aesthetically and achieve, I think, what we all want to.

G

Achieve in terms of preserving that building and what's the setback from the.

J

Second floor to the third floor: distance wise, especially in the north east and.

J

West that's dead, lessor setback well, even on the west does look like there is.

J

Much of these dimensions, I don't have those exact dimensions. There's no.

G

Setback on the on the east: there's no setback on the east. I think.

G

The setback on the north is gonna, be four foot or on the west side, on the top.

G

Right side above the storefront that would be about four or five feet. There's.

J

A occupiable space or just roof.

J

I am simultaneously working on the facade and code at this point, so we do.

G

Actually mean a bit of a walkway from about the center of third floor out to.

G

The roof deck, so there would be a little walkway about halfway down.

I

You have to read it and then it's just a flat roof with solar panels on the top.

J

Basically, that's the plan. Okay, low slope.

A

And then, on the east side, what informs the form of all this new masonry stuff.

J

It feels like it's busy, so I'm just curious as to what programmatic elements.

J

Are in forming that? Yes, so that's going to be the main entrance for the second.

G

Floor and third floor and the powerhouse space were very tight to the alley.

G

So in front of the stair tower, which would be the larger vertical element you.

G

Have parking right there? We do need that stair. Obviously, two stairs all the way.

G

From the third floor going out of the building and then the smaller space to.

G

The south of the stair tower is a lobby two storey open lobby, so.

G

Programmatically that's what's happening. There is a main entrance for the.

G

K

In the back, this that's morton back here on the northeast corner round. If you.

G

Step back, half a block, yeah; okay, very it's an alley actually an alley where.

K

Those car it looked like you had. Okay, it's a little flat. Let me come back to.

G

The site plan here- okay, that's good, so that's an alley back there and then what.

K

Where's the entrance is that we can't see it in the other one. It's that stuff.

K

To the right bottom right corner, there's a little tag there. It says main entrance.

G

And I don't have a mouse with me: okay kind of near the handicap parking spot.

K

Yes, there's a man directly between the handicap parking spot and the power.

G

House is a ramp, so you can exit vehicle, go down the ramp and then the main.

G

Entrance is just north of the mouse right there. That's and that would be the.

G

Main lobby space and where you have the handicap parking there is there going to.

K

Be is that gonna be level with the alley, or is there a drop down to that it'll? Be.

G

Level with the alley and then between the parking space and the ramp, obviously.

G

There would be a wall between the parking space and the ranger.

J

The rent you know drops down. We have a lot of various levels that we're trying.

G

Yeah yeah: how does this building it's a bit of a trick? What is over there? It's.

G

The it's a little warehouse building with no windows and a lot of parking lot.

G

Service lives, yeah.

I

And that lots about a full story higher than the kiln, so whatever gets built.

F

There we'll start off, you know about that, about the roof of the existing.

F

Killing structure that way- and I was just worried- the handicapped parking.

K

Space, when you put it in can't have a it can't have a wall on the left, because.

K

Then I don't think you could really get out very well with that. Much backup.

K

Space because often handicapped vehicles are a little long. The vans and separate.

K

Kind of long, so, on your plan I was just concerned. You had enough room to back up.

K

And get out of your space if you had a lot of the wall, if the alley was.

K

Slightly above the parking space, oh no! No! It's all! It's all atlas all yeah! My.

G

Concern about that it meets all that and then three dumpsters and stuff would be.

K

Just a question.

F

Spend some discussion that we could have a shared agreement with the mill.

G

If you go back to the site plan, there's a little extra space, if you look just.

G

North of the stairs there will be a walk-in cooler in that space for selma.

G

Outside of the building and we'll be screening that and there's you know.

G

There's quite a bit about outdoor space and that north part yeah, the stairs drop.

G

Down to get to the basically the finished floor level for the entire.

G

First floor, the main entrance and sewer the bays will be on the west side right.

I

For those they will be able to walk in right at street level.

B

Your questions and comments.

H

H

Reference to that old building.

H

Yeah, the brick will be there, but it's a lot of it's going to cover what the.

H

Doorways are gone and.

H

That's a good reuse of this building, so I'm conflicted.

I

I agree: it's a good way to reuse the building and the eastern view is a.

I

Little odd but you'll eventually get closed in, but maybe there could be some.

I

Work done on that. I'm not sure that I have a suggestion.

I

Which is lower left right? That's the ester in views from the alley. I don't.

I

Know what could be done? Could something could be done better than those big.

I

Blank spaces and I'm not sure what that solution is, but generally, I think that's.

I

The right idea to have that subordination of the of the two upper.

I

Storeys and it's hard to think how to reuse that building otherwise it's it's.

I

A box, so I think I'll I want to be supportive and I do they get tax credits.

I

Can they get state federal tax credits? If we, the question, is, you know, we've.

F

Talked to so cynthia brubaker's, a local district tax credit expert, you know and.

F

She obviously was involved heavily with the showers redevelopment and several.

F

Other they talked a lot with cook and you know she was hedging her bedroom. She.

F

Just wasn't exactly sure if this would officially get it or not so, but then the.

F

Iedc, indian economic development corporation has a program. That's.

F

Actually, just new this year that actually we seem to fit the bill almost.

F

Perfectly for it so so, anyway, we're we're trying to work with the local.

F

Experts, obviously, as close as we can see if that'll work right, I'm just.

I

Thinking that would be a prominently, visible facade and an entrance so keep.

G

Working on it, we've got a little time. We wanted to.

G

Bring some masonry- and I mean you know there are much worse- stair towers out.

G

There so we're trying to bring some light into the stairs, bringing some.

G

Masonry in where we can fit a lot into that space right, so you could consider.

I

Some steak texturing of the brick with in sets of like the building, has now.

I

That are lost yeah, and it could be a painted brick that gives texture without.

I

Being a blank wall, yeah obvious stuff, we're not rendering materials here, it's.

G

Just somewhat diagrammatic.

G

One two I'll throw out one fantasy. I have for.

I

This area, which is a noon whistle? How is your old work whistle that just every.

I

Noon, hits it remind you the whole factory.

D

Let's get that sure can't imagine that's insurmountable my I'm thrilled that.

L

We're gonna keep the kiln thrilled and I think that the design is is very.

L

Sensitive understand it's in the you know still in flux, but I think it's.

L

Really exciting.

B

You know I'm I remember those discussions about this building, possibly.

M

Going away so it's always just been kind of sitting there. Just waiting for this.

M

Use to come along, so I think it's a perfect use again. I think, as as mayor.

M

Hamilton said you know it's it's, you know the obvious. Is it's not a building.

M

That was ever designed to be an occupied structure. So whatever is done to this.

M

Structure is going to have a big impact on it and that's just something that we.

M

Have to recognize- and I think you've done a good job, I think the base. I.

M

Really like this, the the west and the north view of the lower level, a couple.

M

Of things again, since this is just kind of a commentary and design review, I.

M

Agree with what's been said on the the east side, the stair towers- and I know.

M

You've got to have both stairs to have exits off of the other. You know egress from second floor and third floor, but if that's your main entry- and I know we.

M

Don't want to historic site something new, but I still think there's not enough.

M

Reference given to the other side of the building in this new entry- and I don't.

M

Know if that's done with modern materials, to pick up the idea of a bay.

M

Or some way to express what this building was at one point in the entry I.

M

Don't know if that's a a wood-framed bay sized canopy, you know or something I you.

M

Know I don't know, but I look at this site and it's the one part of the building I don't like, but it's going to be the main entry. So I think that needs.

M

Some thought, and and again your points taken that it's this is just a massing.

M

Model and all of that, the other part that I that I I think I struggle with.

M

And I knew when I when I saw it, I thought: okay, the roof at first. I thought.

M

You were just mimicking the the sawtooth in general, but I kind of figured that.

M

You were going to do solar and again like most of the structures here that.

M

We've retrofitted and allowed that to take place because it should happen. The.

M

Only thing I have an issue with is: is it in.

M

This campus, this would then be probably the only structure that has an overhang.

M

Where most of the roots of this building the administration building they're all.

M

Either parapet type of roof structures, so I'm having a hard time coming to.

M

Grips with the overhang only because it's such a different vocabulary than.

M

What's already here- and I understand why you're doing it, I'm not saying I'm.

M

Completely in disagreement with it, I'm just throwing out ideas that the admin.

M

Building this building are all either parapet structures in some parts or you.

M

See the sawtooth I I don't know if I really want to see a duplication of the.

M

Sawtooth, either in solar panels or not because it I think it does start to.

M

Historic site, something, but I'm not sure I I think the overhang is that that overhang is so big that it becomes like.

M

A giant cap on this building- and I think part of me, wants to see this base and.

M

Then see this building more dissolve at its top level, as opposed to have this.

M

Big heavy hand that tends to squash the building down. Again, that's just my.

M

Opinion but it is a new element, I think- and I.

M

Again, the other part is, I don't know about windows, you know what do you, what.

M

Do you do on the on the addition? I love the metal panels. I love the glass.

M

Railing but I don't know you know again as you go down the road looking at what.

M

You're going to do with the window vocabulary again because we don't want.

M

To go so far that we historic, but we don't want to go so different, that it.

M

Just looks out of place so there's a balance there and I'm sure you'll figure.

M

It out, but again it's just a thought. I love the use. I love the idea and I think.

M

It's going to be a great project yeah because it becomes such a heavy element.

M

I don't, I don't think I would mind the overhang and I see it there again, but.

M

Look how far back that is that's right! That sets back so far and the base of.

M

That building is a two-story base, so that upper level still seems to me and.

M

I've seen that building before it looks so because it's set back so far, it takes.

M

On a real subordinate issue, where this you can see how the two stories you're.

M

Adding is very heavy over the one-story bay, so I think you need to minimize that.

M

Not highlight it, I wouldn't mind and I get the overhang.

M

At the south end, I think you could do that there, but I think to carry it all.

M

The way around the building, I think is, is probably not the treatment to take. I.

M

Think you could do something different there and- and you know I know as.

M

Architects, we get focused on something and then we carry it all around and and.

M

You know it doesn't leave our mind or it, but I think again, as you work this out, I.

M

Think you've done a great job working out a lot of the other details. I think.

M

It's just the the roof and the the east side a little bit and you're you've got.

M

A home run and a few other things, and I really appreciate how the new.

J

Fenestration, especially at the ground floor, it's true. I think that it's true.

J

To what's going on the structure of the original building, and I in it maintains.

J

That building the the the issue I am having, I really like that that you've.

J

Differentiated the upper story, materials from the lower story. You know that's like a that's a no-brainer, it makes all kind of sense, there's a tension and for.

J

Me it's an uncomfortable tension with that, with the levels of setbacks you.

J

Have both at the first and second floors, the the project you showed from portland.

J

As I was saying, it's like so far back that it becomes a different building and.

J

This one, it's it's not quite there, yet it's like.

J

A half of a setback and then even the first floor. You know, I don't know, I mean.

J

It's it's one of those things, the the one foot setback. That's why I was asking.

J

The earlier questions is like, where did that come from.

J

Because if it's not structural, you know, then you have the opportunity to fool.

J

Around with that, a little bit the entrance stuff, the directionally.

J

Challenged to the east side that feels like there's there's some massaging left.

J

To do because you can't it doesn't read like go in there and you've got two very.

J

Different buildings going on you've got the bottom building, which is these. You.

J

Know lovely clearly delineated bays boom boom boom boom boom and then the.

J

Backside is like, if you lie, don't know what the interior circulation of the.

J

Building is but from what you've been the way you've been speaking about, it is.

J

Like the ground floor is a totally different animal than the upper two storeys and there's really no connection between those the bottom five days. Those.

J

Are discrete chunks of program space am, I is that fair to say, yeah yeah, so.

J

You've got you've got this whole other chunk of stuff on the west know east.

J

Side, sorry, east side, that you know you've got to do.

J

All of your infrastructure, all you've got to do all your vertical circulation.

J

You've got to do whatever parking you've got to do all of your back of house.

J

Stuff in the front, because the back of your house is the front of the other.

J

House, which is underneath it if that makes sense, yeah so yeah. So that's.

J

That's gonna be fun and tricky, but figuring out where your service stuff is.

J

Relative to where your entry is, I think, is you know that the walk-in cooler.

J

Feels like the most present element side of the entrance right now, which feels a.

J

Little weird, but just from reading the drawings.

J

So yeah and then the other the other bit and I'm gonna sort of follow up on the.

J

Roof it's it's. I would either like hide the solar panels or exaggerate the solar.

J

Panels because there's this tension right now between are you solar, paneling,.

J

And saw two thing or you know, are you doing a fly roof? It feels like it's. It's.

J

Like you're not committing to what the roof is yet, but I and I have some.

J

Seafood, it is a new vocabulary element, but it's also a brand new building and.

J

It's a very modern, modern intervention on an historic building. Well and that's.

M

Why I said you you've got to differentiate it? I get. I get that mm-hmm.

M

I'm not sure if that's the element to do it, but I but I get it yeah. Well, it's.

J

It's being differentiated in a number of ways to materials and through form, it is.

J

You know you know, if would you go to the elevation that shows the that's your job.

J

That one that one it feels because you've got you know you've got that big.

J

Wiggly line, that's the the tall buildings mit, but you've got this grade.

J

That comes all the way down, so it's gonna be anything on the on the east.

J

Side, regardless of what you do is gonna be taller than the stuff on the west. So.

J

Do you have an elevation of the north and north elevation of the building? It's.

J

Like you know so, you've got this grade, that's coming down and I'm wondering if.

J

That stuff on the east side, if that actually comes up a bit right so then.

J

The stuff on the west side, you can make that setback a little more dramatic, so.

J

You can beef up the floor and play with that horizontal line that you do not it.

J

Not as much if you beefed up the program, that's on the west, all the stuff at the.

J

Lower left, you know, if you fill that in a little bit, then maybe you can relax it.

J

A little bit on the on the upper upper right that makes sense.

J

And I guess the only have the only other thing is. Is you the way the buildings.

J

The new stuff touches the old stuff. I really appreciate what how it works at.

J

The roof, but I think, looking at how the the new you call it limestone or.

J

Whatever, though new light-colored masonry stuff, how that intersects, that.

J

Detail is gonna, be pretty critical because you can't just smack it up.

J

Against the building call, it done so take a look at that when you get there.

G

You know with the vertical element really expressing the new addition and.

G

Then maintaining the horizontality of the historic structure, and so you know.

G

Really cleaning off that, I don't know that it's appropriate to wrap the.

G

Horizontal line all the way around, and I kind of like the vertical grounding, does.

G

Their tower, yes, I think I think you're right it's a little bit busy and we can.

G

Make the entrance a little bit more prominent and maybe make some connections back to the story structure plus the power house, I think, is going to.

G

Play a lot more prominently into the visuals of this view, mm-hmm, because it's.

G

Such a nice building and we're gonna have a lot of nice, transparent, glass there so yeah. But how do you get back to that? How do you like? How do you direct.

J

People both visually and you know physically to get get through to there.

J

You don't have a lot of room to work with.

G

We have very little yeah, just cheeky. I do think I have a better understanding.

F

Of your questions about the setback and why part of the reason? Probably for a.

F

More minimal setback on that second floor is simply due to the space needs.

F

Of the businesses that are gonna occupy that space, you know they need x, amount.

F

Of square feet for their operations and so.

F

You know if we stepped it back more than we'd like, but I'm saying on the second.

J

Floor, don't I'm tell you like step it back, less less, but then on the third.

J

Floor, that's where that's where you can relax a little bit! Oh and a little bit.

J

More the fenestration on the upper floor, some of it actually reads residential to.

J

Me I'm wondering, and I think it's it's the double the double the size of those.

J

Double windows read as sort of 1970s 1980s residential architecture, the.

J

Vertical ones above the bays, I think those worked really well, but looking at.

J

The either the proportions of the sill heights or something on those- and I.

J

Think you know having a very limited palette of windows is a very important.

J

Thing to do, but is that what you know is that it yeah we've got. You know a huge.

G

Western exposure- and you know over time we're gonna have a nice. The intent here.

G

Is to have the overstory growing in its gonna, provide substantial, shade yeah, but.

G

That's gonna be a while it's joe we're gonna have a pretty exposed western.

G

Facades yeah those windows are tricky yeah, but.

J

It looks like you're using yeah you're you, you shrunk them down somewhat. It's a.

J

Little hard to see but you're using some of those same windows on the north as.

J

You are on the west and then that you are those doors also on the north. No.

G

Those are all this larger windows did we need eggs, okay, yeah, and they have larger.

G

They're larger elements on the north side story and I'll say.

D

I really love this. I love I'm not. I don't have the issues with the setbacks.

D

Or the overhang I like those, I really like the use of materials, the showers.

D

Brothers always considered themselves to be the most modern at the time and the.

D

Furniture they made was modern as well. So I really like the modern and.

D

Contemporary look and I really love the correlation between the uses. Both this.

D

And the mill so thank you. I think it's really nice to go. I really like it. I can.

K

Understand the points you guys were making about the overhangs and stuff.

K

Like that, it doesn't really bother me about these lights on the top, because it.

K

Kind of leans towards that one, but it's not replicating it exactly, and I know.

K

We're not supposed to do things exactly so I can I I get that I mean I can.

K

Understand all of this, and it's going to be there's a lot of decisions that they.

K

Made at the minor points you know, but the devil is in the details, like I said.

K

That, if the alley side was on morton, I'd be really bothered by that. But it is an.

K

Alley so other than getting people to that entrance. If that's gonna be a major.

K

Entrances they're going to be just people working up there or there going.

K

To be people shopping there or anything like that, it's just going to be a.

G

Business where the employees are coming in so they're, not really the clients.

F

Some clients: okay, a pretty low, very low volume right, so you're not trying to.

K

Track people off the street okay, so that would really that would be a concern.

K

That you make no and that that entrance, so that makes it less a problem. So I'm.

K

Not an architect, I'm not gonna, say make this bigger. Make that smaller take these.

K

Guys advice more than mine, I am really into trees and botany and I can suggest.

K

A tree that would be really nice if you like a large tree and that's a black gum.

K

They do not have the little balls that the sweet gums.

K

They're, a lovely tree and they're not heavily used, and they were greatly used.

K

Previously but they were such good lumber that nobody's ever heard of them.

K

Anymore, so you'll find a lot less of it. Yeah.

K

Crisp, you could probably ask chris also what exactly was being used in the that.

K

Era, but I know they used the gum, a lot inside houses. They were building all the.

K

Trim the doors had a lot of gum. It was used heavily in this area. Most people.

K

Don't even know what it looks like that's kind of our line. It's an overt.

G

It's a nice overstory. Oh yes, yes, we'll need some smaller, lower trees on.

G

The north side as well, because we have some utility lines so we're different.

G

Anyways and you know if you want to go native, there's some really nice ones.

K

That he gets it goes for that to be our open soon, as you go on that walking.

F

Trail by those trees, we could have a little plaque.

F

Here's the kind of treat. As you know, here's why it was useful back in the day.

L

My life covers, I think it's a very good project like what's being presented to.

B

Us I'm not so concerns the architectural part of it. I think it all worked.

B

Together and I think it's a great great addition to the area, I also like to.

B

Thank the mayor for coming this evening and speaking to us and mr. black, I'm.

B

Glad you came seeming to and I think we.

I

Might draw up, and maybe you already have drawn a version where the back of the.

I

Building speaks to the front of the building. They just seemed to be.

I

Different in a way that is maybe discordant, you know just give it a.

I

Thought all right, so we move on to commission review and we'll start out.

B

With ceo, a 20-4 703 south woodland avenue in the heights district- and it's.

B

Our petitioner here this evening.

J

Next, alright, let's move on to suing tweet five yeah, alright, co, a 29 five.

B

Four twelve east fourth street, which is per restaurant row, historic district.

N

This is contributing building in the restaurant row, a local historic district.

N

Tea plain cottage built: circa 1880 property is zoned commercial, downtown.

N

The request is for several alterations: convert the upstairs for rental units.

N

The first of which is to rebuild second-level entry, stair and deck the.

N

Deck will be expanded to go from a six by six to eight by eight, so it'll kind.

N

Of go out a little bit these ways you can see to be a little larger and the.

N

Roof will be raised because, right now, it's very crappy to stoop over if you're.

N

A tall person, the next request is to replace existing vinyl windows, which are.

N

Indicated with the color yellow on these pictures with new wood, clad vinyl.

N

Windows and repair original double hung wood windows. Here yeah I didn't hurt a.

N

Wood clad vinyl either buddy. We have a petitioner to talk about them later so.

N

Let's keep our focus on this, the pink ones are original wood windows, and these.

N

Three, the petitioner is going to be repairing and maintaining. However, let's.

N

Talk about the rear or south elevation of the building. Here there are some.

N

Windows that the petitioner is requesting to replace these two with a.

N

Taller window and make that a casement window, that's to me egress the.

N

Petitioner also wishes to either remove move this window here or move it over as.

N

It is currently in the way of a room expansion here, so you can see that this.

N

Is the windows that they want to make taller? I believe the the new.

N

Measurements will be twenty seven and three quarters by thirty seven and a.

N

Quarter- and this is the window they want to move. The reason is they want to move.

N

This wall over to about here just to create this some more room for this. This.

N

Proposed bedroom here, so you can't have the wall in the middle of a window. So.

N

There is not currently guidelines of reference, although those are in the.

N

Works, as you know, but staff would recommend approval of items one in two.

N

Essentially, these are just rebuilding or replacing existing features. The.

N

Enlargement of stairs will have a minimal visual impact and, regarding the.

N

Windows in the rear part of the character, the district is the unique.

N

Adaptation of these buildings to meet commercial needs and staff finds at the.

N

Height the form and the roof shapes of the buildings combined with some of the.

N

Architectural elements found along the 4th street facade really are what.

N

Contribute to the character of this district and altering features on the.

N

Rear facade of the buildings in district is not detract from the historic.

N

Character of restaurant row, therefore, staff supports replacing the windows in.

N

The south elevation with larger casement style windows to me, egress, replacing the.

N

Two double hung windows with vinyl and moving this moving or removing the six.

N

Over one window on the rear questions, I'd be more than glad to answer it will.

B

Move to questions.

O

Vinyl clad wood window, so basically it's still indian door. It's an exterior wood.

O

Core with a vinyl coating and it can be an interior, actually yeah, correct.

M

It's the andersen 400 series, it's a good window.

A

Yeah sure no question I'm part of this project, so we think that was a porch.

M

That was enclosed at one sun that that floor of that is sloping. So we think at.

M

One point this was over: this was a roof and they just enclosed it. Yeah.

M

And so those windows are not as original as others that are being kept. That's.

J

Right, okay, this happen to be wood frame, okay and then the one. The next picture.

J

Over that one, I'm gonna, like I'm, probably gonna, reiterate my suspicion.

J

That it's an original original one, but I can't tell from the picture: do you have.

J

A you've been on site, you got it yeah, it's it's the windows everywhere in this.

M

Building half of a well not half other than these windows you've seen in these.

M

Fixers all the other windows, but what three in the front are all vinyl.

M

Replacements already, what we're doing with and what wasn't brought up is in.

M

The front corner go back to the picture, so so there's there's a mismatch of.

M

Windows they could have found one from the building. They could have found one from the shed next door. So this top left picture the circle. All those three.

M

Windows, those look to be the only original windows in the building and we.

M

Have those are where a kitchen and a bathroom are now and we are leaving.

M

Those windows and we kind of made it work around them, because those are the.

M

Only what what I really think, the original building gotcha all the.

M

Ones that are soylent green colored are are are literally vinyl replacement.

M

Windows and then you can see even on the lower there's, there's some horizontal.

M

Windows that are like sliders that are okay and that little window in the back.

M

It looks to me like it's the same air as these. Next to it and honestly, it's also.

M

Where our, if you see that top right picture, it's we've got power and.

M

Everything else coming in here and up- and it's really too close to move so got.

M

You yeah, I'm just wondering are: is the stairwell gonna look just like that? One.

K

Or are you gonna do something a little different cuz that one's pretty not do.

O

You want me to answer you jerky yeah, so so here's so we're kind of dealing with.

M

With a couple of issues, planning is, is one of them and what how much impervious.

M

Pervious surface, so the deal is that that stair doesn't meet a half a dozen.

M

Different building codes, yeah risers, are too small or risers are too tall. Threads.

M

Are too small, it's really congested at the top and has a headroom issue.

M

So planning didn't have a problem as long as we changed it minimally. As far.

M

As our design goes, we you know we're, not gonna, we don't want to enclose it so.

M

We're it'll still be an open wooden exit. Stair there's not a lot. We can do. I mean.

M

You know if we, if we could use, maybe some aluminum. You know the prefinished.

M

Illume, I did I didn't, I didn't want to draw attention to it, and my worry is: is.

M

That if we use high-end railings, it's gonna stick out like a sore thumb. I was.

K

Thinking, maybe you know the rails come up and maybe put a cap on it. That might.

K

Make it yeah yeah, instead of just having it balusters yeah I've gone they're just.

K

Kind of cap it off a little bit might make it feel a little little closer to.

K

The well to making these code he's gonna.

J

Have to do something and then the front rail is lovely on the porch and being in.

K

Design would be a little bit closer. I know you can't do a thing like that for.

K

One thing it's way too low for something like this, but yeah, maybe smooth it out a.

K

Little bit and make it a little less than thank you. So are you gonna beef up.

B

That structure this chair structure, all right, yeah, looks like four by four. Each.

M

Shakes when you walk yeah it looks frail to the right is what shawn and his.

M

Partner are doing to this once you kind of tour, some things away inside you. I.

M

Mean there's there's so many places inside where you can see out, so you.

M

Wonder how much was getting in interior asian wise there's some beams we're.

M

Gonna do to hold that keep the second floor up. It's it's been two apartments.

M

Up there, but it hasn't been occupied for how long been several years. Quite a few.

M

Years- and you can see why I mean the floor- goes every which direction up.

M

There so we're putting some beams in, and so what they're doing to the building is.

M

Going to ensure that it's gonna stand as a house like restaurant row has been for.

M

Some time in the future yeah, I was just thinking you know a little chunkier on.

K

The bottom you know, like the sea, you can see that post right there on the porch.

K

mmm So maybe you know like at the bottom yeah check your posts and then a top.

K

Rail and then you know you, wouldn't it would feel more like it went with that.

K

House yeah jeff chris, I just caught that detailed.

I

Discussion about the railing on the deck I agree make it make it look like it's.

I

Contemporary with the building yeah or it could be a sport. I support the.

L

Project too, I've said all my comments. I.

J

Got no issues, I think it's yeah. I would support it as well. Yes, I do. I supported.

B

As well so we need a motion.

B

Great does bruce ed stain salmon solar, yes, susan dyer, yes golden fleece and was.

C

John saunders, kiss chris turbot, yes motion carries all.

B

Right so, let's move on to sue a 20-6, 1818 east first street mice.

N

So what we're actually looking at is a detached garage on a contributing house.

N

In the elm heights, historic district, that garage is certainly of the same era.

N

Of construction as the house, the request is a demolition of the garage, the elm.

N

Heights guidelines talk about detached garages is the most common type found in.

N

The district, so this matches that and the preservation goals in the guidelines.

N

State to retain and restore original garages and service buildings, along with.

N

Their materials and features through cleaning, repair and maintenance looking.

N

At this garage visited a site with with barry and the homeowner.

N

And I can confirm that it doesn't have a masonry foundation, it was, I guess you.

N

Have wood sill plates there at the bottom, with wall studs so and they're.

N

Obviously, severely deteriorated, both the sails and the bottom of the wall, studs.

N

So you know, as a result, you can see a pretty significant lien there in the.

N

Garage you look at the top picture staff finds at the lack of structural.

N

Stability combined with the petitioners compatible designs for a new.

N

Construction of a garage no to validate demolition of the structure. Okay, barry.

B

Do you have additional when architects and spat listings here, one of the owners.

P

I don't have too much to add the owners like the garage. It's not a problem with.

P

The garage just it it you can see, there's there had been cabling at it at.

P

Some point some tire rods to help to help keep it the structure together. It's.

P

Been limping along for quite a while and and they have young children and they're.

P

Just really concerned about the safety of the garage, so this is really good. The.

P

Next case is a replacement, so there's a need for a garage and- and that's all I.

P

Have to add, if there any questions.

K

In general, the neighborhood doesn't like to tear down buildings. That's in a.

K

Historic district, it's kind of a bad precedent to set. So if you guys decided.

K

You're gonna vote for tearing it down. Please make it very clear, because why.

K

You would do it because if you don't people are like well, you let them tear.

K

Down the garage, it looked fine to me, so that was basically what I heard. If I.

K

Asked it they didn't really write anything to me anything, but I called.

K

Them- and they said well that seems really weird- to tear something down so.

K

I'm like okay and the only other company somebody else made was. I wonder why it.

K

Doesn't match the style of the house.

K

They, the eaves and the clifty, was different and the open use are different.

K

So it's quite different in the style of the house. Oh and I'll I'll make comments.

K

Later, but that's all I heard from it's just to have a garage, that's functional.

P

The garage is 16 feet, so it really doesn't really it can't really and when.

P

We had the property survey, we included the survey, the back part of the garage.

P

Sits over the property line, it's not one of the owners properties. I think there.

P

May have been an issue in the past because there is a bit of a bump out.

P

Sort of like a lean-to at the back and I think it had brought, we had capacity.

P

Issues, um you know just fine yeah right, so it's it's not very functional in it. I.

P

Mean we look pretty closely at the wall structure and really all of the.

P

Bottom of the of the studs are mostly gone, and we had to have a platter come.

P

Out and kind of look at it as well with us because, like I said, the owners like.

P

The garage or something it's just it really isn't. It would be hard to invest.

P

In it and bring it back to life in a current form being that it sits over the.

P

Property line and it is substandard in size, in terms of being able to serve the.

P

Family package showing a new garage, that's it's! Well, it's it's! It looks like.

J

It's bigger than this one, it's deeper it's tweed. It would be 20 feet deeper.

J

It's 20 feet feet, but it's also a foot off of the back property line which.

J

Doesn't comply with current zoning exactly and my understanding is that if.

J

You repair in place, you can do what you want to, but if you tear it down and.

J

Start afresh, you need a variance right. Okay, we have applied for a variance and.

J

That does that need to go through here. So we have kegan here, he's a planner and.

N

He can tell you about the variance, I believe that they're ready to support it.

J

That's all I got things: what are the side and rear setbacks for a detached.

K

Garage now five feet for catch, even without an alley: yeah, okay,.

K

Did you did the owners check in to you know what adverse possession is? Okay, an.

K

Adverse possession if you've used a piece property for a certain length of.

K

Time and building a part of a building on it, it's just part of it. It's the.

K

Definition of adverse possession, so if they really wanted that little piece of.

K

Ground they could just they could pretty easily claim it. No they'd have a legal.

K

Standing on it, hmm of course, if they remove it, then it's.

K

Gone sure sure and it's it looked a little hard because.

K

The five five feet is that going to be: how long are the eaves gonna be on this.

K

Because the house has eaves this has new construction yeah, it's a question: if.

K

They do new construction or do we do that? Questions after okay, okay, so on.

B

Street, you know this for later, so this is the demolition and we don't know what.

K

Door, it has on it's just been open like that. It's open! Okay, all right! Thank you.

K

Any questions comments jeff, yes, yeah, I'm not impressed with the.

I

Condition argument I fixed half a dozen of these exactly worse than this so and.

I

Jeff did one too, so we know you can put them back.

I

I don't know what we would base our decision on. My sympathy as a car doesn't.

I

Fit in it very well, but they're getting some cars would fit in some cars.

I

Wouldn't but it could be repaired, for you know, quarter of the cost of.

I

Replacement and they always have their feet wet and everything else is fine.

I

Above six inches you know, so it's not that hard to dixon. So I don't know where.

I

I am on this and I sympathize with the need and want for a garage that actually.

I

Functions as a garage, but I don't know that that's our job as preservationist.

I

So I'm going to decide, as I haven't made up my mind,.

I

Thank you. I think I think, in consideration for the current owners and.

H

That this building is modest, but its removal.

H

I can't I can't hear you over. The removal would not take away from the.

H

Property and unfortunately I don't remember what the new one looks like.

H

When it seems like it's pretty close a similar, so I guess in that case I'm.

H

Supporting the demolitions, that's it at the end of the yes and you.

H

Can see? That's all thanks. Jeff.

M

Yeah you know I I agree with what what chris is saying, but I also think I've.

M

Had a little more leeway, I think with especially when you look at this with an.

M

Accessory structure, and especially one that's so far to the rear from the.

M

Public way, public view again, I know we're only talking about the merits of.

M

What's there now not what would be there, but I think seeing some of the pictures.

M

Of it and having kevin potter come out and look at it, I've seen a lot of.

M

Structures but I haven't seen too many accessory structures if somebody's come.

M

In with a with a system with the cable to try to write the structure and.

M

Straighten it up, you know with it with a especially on just a little one car.

M

Garage for a model t so and I you know, I'm kind of on the fence. I get the idea.

M

Of wanting to replace it with something you know, it doesn't have a door on it.

M

For now there's you know, I wondered even what what the date of this structure is.

M

This accessory structure did we have anything in the any like the sanborn.

M

Maps or any it's a merit, not maybe five years after.

N

The houses- okay, because okay yeah- but I also you know, get the idea of this.

M

Structural work, that's gonna, take and the fact that it is you know my my thing.

M

That differentiate is, is look how I mean that's a quite a long driveway. That's.

M

That's a pretty far back. I don't think it's going to be as visual yeah, but I.

M

Get it and you know I, I also the the whole neighborhood idea. I mean they.

M

Typically, they tend to come out very strongly if there's something that.

M

They're completely against so, and we've had some garages in this neighborhood.

M

Come forth, I'm thinking of the one on university at one point, but that was a.

M

Brick garage much closer to the street, much more character defining for the.

M

House I think then, in this structure. So that's all my comments. Yeah I'm on the.

J

Fence on this one too, I have some a lot of sympathy with curses. You can fix it.

J

But you fix it, it becomes it's not necessarily useful and they are putting.

J

A garage back and part of the things I harp on all the time are settlement.

J

Patterns which are as important as well to me is some of the structures.

J

K

No comment about that. I had a question about: do they need a change.

K

A see of a also for changing the driveway talking, I was just going to.

P

Actually bring that up that separate see it coa mentions, I think we did. We did.

P

Say it yeah and I think the stone edges. That's the reason I brought right right.

P

So the issue now that we've looked at as part of the survey is there, isn't decent.

P

Drainage off the driveway to the north and there's currently a problem with.

P

Water getting into the neighbor's basement.

P

So the first thing the owner is going to do is reroute all of the downspouts and.

P

Dig in the yard and bring that to the north and then we'll be able to isolate.

P

That water issue and see if that addresses, addresses the problem. I think.

P

The the owner likes again likes the driveway as it is and likes the.

P

Character of the driveway, we were looking at what it would take to.

P

Actually get a positive slope to the north and it means raising everything.

P

About a foot over which isn't that much really considering the length of the.

P

Entire driveway, so if we would need a separate, I don't know how that would be.

P

Handled we could realize that I would have just included.

N

That this part in this one, ok or yeah, yeah right exactly so we would. We would.

P

If, if if we were to do that, we would need to know that we were doing that.

P

Before the garage would be built, so that does of course impact that elevation. Yes,.

P

Yes, so we believe that would that would remain because at that point we'd be.

P

Coming down considerably so the goal is to work with everything. That's there. We.

P

Believe that the the retaining wall- that's on the east side, you know, goes.

P

Down far enough that, if anything is excavated or exposed along that wood.

P

There is, there is limestone there, so obviously we would be building up toward.

P

The back, and so there wasn't a lot of concern at this point to tell you the.

P

Truth I mean we haven't at the initial stages of the project and looking at.

P

What's feasible, so I think it's on the table as a consideration. I don't know.

P

Maybe the owner and maybe talk about that a little bit. The water has a right.

I

To run where it's running right now right! Well, I think the issue is that.

P

It's running to the neighbors basement, and so this order has enough. You know.

P

Has an obligation to to remediate.

I

They also need to be their own. Downspout goes right there too right. So it's a.

I

Neighborly obligation, it's great, I mean, is something that you know you would.

P

Want to try to the pain of another right, so scott's planning to have the.

P

Downspouts on the west side of the house, routed to the north, so that all that.

P

Water can bypass that area. It also ponds, as you can sort of see there. It ponds in.

P

A few different locations I mean the the driveway in any case, if it were to stay.

P

As it is, it mean it needs some attention and additional gravel added to it. Let's.

N

Just refocus real, quick we're gonna. Do the driveway thing. Let's make that a.

N

Separate see you at that point, unless you're so kisan, unless you in the garage.

P

That's fine that driveway and bring it forward to that, make it more prominent.

I

Does that make it won't that be a part of next year, nixie? What yes, it would.

A

Yeah, okay, so we have a motion in a second for approval of demolition, so deb.

B

Bruce yes, sam to sawyer to abstain, susan dyer! Yes,.

D

Jeff golden yes, lisanne voice; yes, john saunders, yes, chris turbo.

C

Abstain motion carries 5:02. Alright, let's be around to see la.

B

20 dare ii 7 work. This is a request for new construction of a garage.

N

Essentially, on the same footprint, lap siding a solid fiberglass or steel door.

N

Shingle roof. So if you read the elm heights design guidelines, it says to.

N

Avoid the choice of pre manufactured sheds or service buildings, you can check.

N

That box, this is not that that says new structures should be sited with regard.

N

For the historic orientation of the house and care for their impact on the.

N

Site you can check that box here as well. New garages and garage additions should.

N

Be accessed by alleyways when available and appropriate and away from the.

N

Primary facade whenever possible and think that's applicable in this situation, so staff finds that the building orientation, the location.

N

Materials, the style means maintaining a clipped front. Gable is sympathetic to.

N

The elements of the previous garage and the new garage design is compatible with.

N

The primary structure of the lot so, for these reasons, staff finds that this.

N

Design meets the design standards of the elm height guidelines and recommends.

N

B

Well, I mean the clip gable is a defining characteristic of this house. It makes it.

P

A house of this garage it makes it a little bit special, and that is something.

P

That the the owner obviously want to retain it's something. That's visible.

P

Even from that distance from the street from the sidewalk and the often also the.

P

Offset garage door, they wanted to add a little bit of space, a bay to the side to.

P

The west to have some trashcan storage and some bike storage, but we've pushed.

P

That back, so, you still kind of just read that very simple table form as the.

P

Primary elevation so we're trying to kind of echo I mean, obviously the house.

P

Is is fairly straightforward house with the front facing gable and in this nice.

P

Sort of repetition in the back is pretty much what we're echoing as well from the.

P

Original design, how does that change? How it reads from the front? I'm not sure it.

H

Changes anything.

I

Well, yeah! It's definitely I mean the garage.

I

It looks like it's: the existing location was almost on the property right now.

I

It's pushed five. No, so it's! If, if you look at this survey, which was in your.

P

Packet, it's four feet off the west property line now, and so we decided to.

P

It's four foot, four off the west property line, so we were gonna make it.

P

Five feet off the proper line, so we wouldn't have to do an additional.

P

Variants so one google, could you see the garage door now? It looks like you.

P

Difference yeah and just for clarification again on the survey. The.

P

Curb that is on the west side of the drive, that's in front of the neighbor's.

P

House is not one, this owners property, so I we actually didn't draw that in there.

P

But it's be its own beyond it's on the other. It shows up on kevin's service. It.

P

Does right on that, it's off its off its off the property.

I

Yeah it really, it really does, because we haven't focused on it so much at this.

P

I

Looks like you have enough room to get in and out it's going to be real tight.

I

No questions, no questions, questions. What's the current permeable surface.

J

Area now before you trade out the garage internships right now, I don't know like.

P

If I could get back to you, I don't know off yet no it's not it wasn't. It wasn't.

A

It is now that's always blowing my mind, but it's true interesting. huh I mean in.

J

Reality, I don't think it is, I think so I think you're gonna, I think well I'll get.

J

To that in comment, and is there a detail about what, if we're looking at the.

J

Garage this is the garage now right. Is there a detail of what the foundation of.

J

That garage is what happens on that little. You have a little line. That's a.

J

Little wider: what is that? Okay bottom of the girl you will, it would be a it. Would.

P

Be a cmu foundation wall which will probably bring up four to six inches.

P

Above the slab and then the wood framed wall would sit on top of that. So how.

J

Much of that will be exposed well good. Okay, then, on the north face of the.

J

Garage there's a material that is differentiated, it's a vertical material.

J

What is that right right, so that would be a type of vertical siding, maybe a.

P

Like a car soybean at par siding that would be run vertically, okay, so the rest.

J

Of it is fiber cement board. Is that also going to be fiber cement, uh potentially.

P

Yeah, let's say it would be most likely it's, um and that is also part of there.

P

Is that siding change on the on the original garage as.

P

Well, yeah: what's up there now I mean, is it going it's going, it's a vertical yeah.

P

It's a vertical sonow, sir. That's real in there! Oh okay, okay! So it's it's possible.

K

So the new garage I'll try to stick to your new garage and not the driveway. Oh.

K

You if you're going to regrade okay, let's preface this, is first street now.

K

Higher than this driveway or lower than this driveway, does it go up or does it.

K

Go down which way does that drain towards the garage or towards the street.

K

Now it is, or is it humped in the middle.

B

Yeah, it's we're about six inches in front of the core, so at the north, at the.

P

Northwest corner of the driveway call that elevation a hundred and we are 0.58.

P

In front of the garage, so it's just it's just six inches okay! So it's a little.

K

Different flat, it's pretty flat. The problem with driveways, of course, is.

K

They build up and almost all alleys and driveways we're reverse crown. We've done.

K

It backwards now now we crown the road like this back then they did this and.

K

That's why all your water drained? If you go to any old alley, they were like this.

K

Around here they were called reverse crown, so that was actually meant to.

K

Carry your water! That's why your all your downspouts go over there! All the.

O

Downspouts from mine go over there, but unfortunately they don't do that anymore.

K

And it slowly builds up and then instead of water going here and then.

K

It goes here and then back towards your house. So if they're going to be.

K

Regrading there and that one house is so close, they might consider you might.

K

Consider putting a little dip in the middle and reverse the crown and then.

K

It'll pull all the water from the two houses. I'm going to comment on that.

K

Quite likely, when you dig around in there, you might find a old limestone.

K

Ribbon drive a little underneath all that gravel mmmmmm. That's a possibility.

K

You might, if you find it, you might want to store it. You might not. I don't know, I.

K

Don't like I don't like the door, it looks very modern, not very 70s. uh Okay,.

K

So I know we're not gonna like I don't want to do dad it up. I don't want to do.

K

That it just you, know, yeah, you know, but that just screams ranch talk to me. Okay,.

P

We could we could consider the epidermis. Something was a little bit of panel.

P

Detail, well maybe it doesn't bother anybody else, but to me it's it's 70s. I.

P

Guess I can see that yeah okay, so my question was yeah. We would definitely be.

P

Open to considering a little bit more leverage on the door, yes, so if you're.

K

Gonna regrade, what I'm saying in the question part is: you might not have to.

K

Go too far with the thing if you've got a little drop there. Okay, thanks no.

B

Question said it already: I think that the design is sensitive to what was.

H

There and I appreciate that.

I

I think you could consider simple doors that look, might look like the old doors.

I

That open on hinges and then they're, not that complicated they're, not that.

I

Expensive but they had a little subtle, a subtle detail that sort of makes that.

I

Look sort of doesn't call attention to it. You could look into it.

I

Glass details: if they wanted light, that's all I'll prove it as it is.

H

Yeah I I agree, though, when you pointed out the overhead door, that's the thing I.

M

Couldn't get harassed? What was what was bothering me, because the garage doors.

M

For houses back then swung hinges as opposed to what we do now. Yeah. That's.

M

Right and so I think something that reflects that either a single single.

M

Door or double doors, I think we would be right. What was the term used didn't do.

P

Yeah yeah, I know I think, you're. I think you're you're, spot-on they're, like your.

M

Rationale for not, I like the idea of maybe a hinge or something on it. Other.

M

J

A couple of things, the roof you might want to consider, bringing the eave all.

J

The way over so above the man door, yeah just so you don't get rained on and.

J

It'll, just simplify the roof. A little bit you might have to put a bracket in.

J

There at all the extra cantilever rafters up, but you got a bunch of they.

J

Put brackets on the yes yeah, I guess the only other comment. I've got as I would.

J

Propose we table this and talk about it, part and parcel with the driveway.

J

Because I think that they are interconnected and I don't know that we.

J

Should approve this, or even continue talking about it without talking about.

J

The driveway at the same time would it be possible to approve it with I mean.

P

Obviously, without any changes to contingent upon no changes to the.

P

Driveway as it can as a condition of the approval and then if the owner does in.

P

Fact decide to make any changes to the driveway. Then we would come back you've.

J

Said that if you're gonna pave the driveway, it's gonna bring the garage up.

J

A foot that is not, I mean I, I would like to see how that is reflected in the.

J

Drawings, because you have said that it's gonna affect the garage, but it would.

P

Affect the elevation of the garage, but what I'm saying is that this approval of.

P

This design would be with this driveway and in that's in the coa would go away.

P

And we've come back if the project is does include the a new driveway as well.

P

And you would look at it because it's very likely that they will decide not to.

P

Move forward with the driveway I like the reversed crown idea. Actually I was.

M

Thinking that gravel has probably been built up over time anyway, so I'm getting.

A

The drainage and then you don't have to dig everything up and you kind of slope.

M

It down the drive.

K

It's more likely the water actually will go into the neighbors basement now.

K

Especially if they don't change their its look, that's the reason right now.

P

When we were trying to talk to kevin about it more, it's pretty involved.

P

Honestly- and I think it's most it's most likely beyond this folk of investment.

P

And value so it's and and then yeah, let's creep that he'll just reward I'll.

P

Be working yeah, so that's. Why that's why I would like to. I respectfully ask that.

P

This be approved, as is now, and then we could come back. If you wanted me visit.

D

It no additional comment, so, let's make a motion make motion.

B

I suggest we prove with the condition that on staff approval the garage door.

I

Reflect a period.

I

That might reflect two doors, but it's the overhead door. We have an. I haven't.

P

Defined that exact material, so I think that's fine yeah bruce yes, santa solar.

C

Yes, lease and wise john saunders, yes, christopher vaughn, yes, motion carries.

C

7-0, thank you very much. Thank you. I just say that I appreciate this process. I I.

P

Really, I see projects come through here and I see you guys really giving such.

P

Thoughtful input, and so we have demolitions a 20-4 staff review. So this.

N

Is a staff review a contributing structure? One thousand south of.

N

Washington, it's a partial demolition. What they wanted, what they are doing is.

N

Building a small entry porch on the north elevation just to accommodate an.

N

Existing door and then they're gonna extend a roof out.

N

I believe this extend this out this way, a little bit over the back, mudroom or.

N

Maybe it's yeah, I taught us all in the back of the.

N

House there extending this out a little bit so two partial demolition of a.

N

Contributing structure in a single family zone district staff has the.

N

Authority to approve and staff did to save time for this commission. Let's move.

B

On to demo delay 19-25 414, east main street nope, but I'll update everybody on.

N

This this is a familiar demo delay. We've pushed it back twice now. If we don't.

N

Take action if we don't place this under intern protection at the next meeting.

N

Then it will automatically be released next meetings on february 27th, so just a.

N

Quick reminder: this is an old showers furniture factory study area. It was.

N

Built circa 1927 by a dentist local dentist named fred prowl. It was part of.

N

The prowl gardens a redevelopment, we've consulted bill coulter and we can find.

N

No I've been to the history center, the library we can find no evidence pointing.

N

That proving that jl nichols designed this house, it just can't substantiate.

N

That claim so I can't be proven that locally significant architects designed.

N

This home, however, I did find some more historical information regarding prowl.

N

And prowl gardens, I included it in the packet from what I understand. Fred prowl.

N

But up a bunch of property in a poor area of town and sought to redevelop it.

N

For wealthier clients, and did so so that was the prowl gardens redevelopment and.

N

Staff doesn't find that the fred brown or prowls addition a significant.

N

Character, interest or value as part of development of the city, nor does it.

N

Exemplify the city's cultural, political, economic or historic heritage, and so I.

N

Don't recommend individual designation, this property for historic or.

N

B

As if we talk to petitioner about any chance of him put in addition on it and.

B

Trying to obtain the building yeah did something I think we have. We brought.

N

That up last meeting definitely- and we talked about it when we were at the.

N

House with the possibility- and he just does not seem interested okay plans to.

B

Sell it to a developer, who plans to tear, he is the developer right. Okay,.

K

Interesting architectural details inside shelving little-known things is a little.

J

Crazy in there, which might go to restore something, I think a lot of the.

J

Architectural dealing on the exterior the building- it's crazy. It's got a lot.

J

If you've not been out to this house, just go, go look at the house inside.

J

I don't well, we don't have any purview of the inside. It's solid, it's a solid.

A

But that doesn't you know we we don't we don't look at that they could. They could.

J

Do something with it? The rooms are small, I mean from a development standpoint.

J

It's a difficult thing right. We also don't look at that, but the exterior of.

J

The house, the level of architecture, detail the variety of architectural.

J

Detail the number of original windows, the condition of the foundation on the.

A

It's it's it's a little gem. The roof is shot, the gutters are gone. We put a new.

J

Roof on it's it's, it's not a standalone designation criteria, though I don't. I.

A

Still see that at all, oh, this is fun. I found that if you see.

N

This is a winner, prowse houses that he built put the newspaper and it's still.

N

Existing there yeah just a couple houses down from from this one. So you know you.

N

Can see the the level of redevelopment between 1913 1927 aided most of his.

N

Development in the early mid 20s- I mean you know everything. I've circled here is.

N

All new from 1913 to 1927 and he it was essentially between had a done and grin.

N

But all the way up to, I believe it was 11th street or maybe 10th street. I'm.

N

Probably lemon street so kind of a narrow, vertical channel of redevelopment.

N

That was proud will rise, the most desirable residential district in.

M

N

Now, as part of their getting pushed west, probably I did, but it all happened. Yeah.

I

Okay, then yeah the dynamics are prowess on opportunity, figured a lot more of.

N

These are going to come up in that area and some other ones. If you want to.

N

Propose a district with several houses.

J

When everything else around there has changed so much yeah yeah. Yes, this it.

H

Doesn't really fit in anymore mmm-hmm steven. We can't move it. I don't.

K

Know just pick that up. Yes, I did learn this, but matt murphy.

I

Said this owner, it's part of him llc or several areas, multiple properties.

I

Different yeah, that's what he said. Yeah proud, proud, proud house that is.

N

There before proud right there, you can see that one, no one's actually kind of.

N

Years guys different yeah this way, that's what I wonder I mean I.

M

Know doing this as a standalone house, and we had the one house on north walnut.

M

Street near 11th that we made as its own district at one point. But when you read.

M

Through these articles, you think this is another one of the you know. This is.

M

Really one of the first subdivision subdivisions in bloomington and and.

M

There are a few I mean these three structures right in a row or from I mean.

M

Right in that that time, but again, I think you're right on its own jeff. It's.

M

It's tough to make an argument for this home. We can't tie it to an architect.

M

You know nichols or anything so unless you had it in a district there really.

M

Isn't any other any other thing? I.

H

District you're talking about investment properties, you've, never given me and.

M

Steep shed roofs attack, mary steve yeah, it's a very distinctive interesting. I.

K

Like it, I like the inside, I like, like the style I like the ribbon, the the near.

K

Tone era: those are really pretty who spent some money on windows, yeah.

K

I

We allow the demolition which we probably will. How could we make a.

I

Recommendation to be a non-binding recommendation, but it could be a.

I

Statement from the commission that this building is sound and has character and.

I

We would like to see added on to you may find that I don't know we can't go.

N

But it doesn't change anything if we wait two more weeks right through. Why.

I

Couldn't we make a motion to make a recommendation that we consider keeping.

I

The property and declare that is a well it's a yes, but is that a statement is.

M

That is that the commission of saying something, but I don't know you know what.

I

He told me about that, though jeff was, I hadn't, even thought of it. I didn't even.

I

Know I would be allowed to do it, he didn't say no way. Will I ever earn an.

I

Additional, he just thought it could be, and we spun it a little bit. He can put a.

I

Two-Story addition on that side, you know for it. I think it's a great.

L

Idea, because some way at least go on, the record is saying that that's our wish.

L

And members of the commission are willing to help them figure that out.

L

That we make a recommendation that the property owner consider, in addition, that.

I

It would contribute to the character of that neighborhood without having to.

I

Demolish, I think we should table it, but I think the other thing we could do is.

J

Just we could find some architect draw them up like a little quick x on a.

J

Metric, here's what you got to do- and you know because like this is a standalone.

J

Single-Family house, with what one teeny, no two teeny tiny bedrooms upstairs in.

E

The bathroom- and they want like three bedrooms with three bathrooms.

J

There's three rooms upstairs yeah, there's three rooms upstairs, but they're.

B

Saying every college kid wants their own bathroom, so it's five, so you've got the.

J

Bedroom, so you figure out a way to get them five bedrooms with five or six.

J

Bathrooms so you put a bunch of bedrooms with bathrooms. Over on that side, you put.

J

An extra bathroom that side that you bust in through the upstairs side wall.

J

And then you have a bathroom another bathroom that you come in off the bottom.

J

So I mean you can do it. This is a really good public space.

I

Shared space, yeah, okay,.

B

I don't think we do, I mean it's just like we don't really talk about it. Do we.

N

Need a motion: we just don't take action on a demolition like can we.

N

Just delete a motion to table or, and just not do anything okay. Yes, you motion.

B

C

That bruce sure yes, lisanne boys, john saunders, okay. Mr. ball, yes, motion.

C

Carries seven, that's zero! All right! Let's move.

B

On to demo a 20 five, two east smith avenue and there's our petitioner.

N

So the city of bloomington utilities told the petitioner that they are going.

N

To have to demolish this house pretty much because of a major project, that's.

N

That can be working on jordan, culvert and part of the culvert runs underneath.

N

Where your portion of this house, you can see it here, here's the house they have.

N

To dig all this up, so there's not really a lot of options. The owner does want to.

N

Rebuild on this lot up here in the corner area, but right now we're just.

B

Looking at demolition of this structure- and you can see- I mean look at its.

N

Beside if you go there and the whole area, there's there's no historic context.

N

For the for this, it's well, the facing street is nice houses. It's a survivor.

N

H

Their store preservation commission declares that it got noticed as a.

H

Proposed demolition and after today's discussion sees no need to pre review.

H

The plans any further and waives the rest of demolition delay right. Hpc may.

H

Later, recommend that property for historic, designation to a common axle.

H

Second, doug bruce yes, sam, the solar, yes, susan, dire jeff go lucca lease and boys.

C

Yes, john saunders, yes, christopher mom, yes, motion carries station across the.

K

Street from that all right, let's move on to demolition, late, 2006.

B

34:15 east of deer lane, so this was added in the 2015 shard update as.

N

Contributing, I think it's in hoosier acres, yeah. So the reason this is coming.

N

Before you is because the amount of work is considered a substantial demolition, I.

N

Mean this house is undergoing major renovations, including a two-story.

N

Addition and changing the roof from a gable to a hip, so the scope work is.

N

Substantial and that triggers demolition delay on a contributing building staff.

N

Did not find that this is architectural ii, notable or unique version of a split-level house, and certainly not an architectural style in danger of being.

N

Lost in bloomington and would recommend release of demolition delay. It's a.

B

Petitioner, with this very babies, it's a brand-new house, basically any additional.

B

F

But no, they have yeah questions, jeff, tres nope. You know, we've talked about.

F

This one parker dicen a lot of those houses with that kind of same era got.

M

Added as well and we're gonna see more of these, and this is kind of more procedural than anything else, but I think I like what they're doing for this.

M

So we're changing the fabric of the neighborhood that I think it's a good.

B

B

So today, regarding the property located at what's the number 3450 nice to 34:15.

H

Historic preservation commission proposed demolition on partial.

H

Demolition and after today's discussion sees no need to review the plans, any.

H

Further and ways the rest of demolition delay waiting period, hpc may later.

H

Recommend the property for historic, designation to the common council.

C

Doug bruce yes same to solver kent, susan dyer, yeah, jeff, nolan,.

C

Yes, leeks and boys john saunders, yes, krista, boehm, yes,.

C

Motion carries 7-0 yeah if the hoosier a first neighborhood, was.

I

Here saying these split levels define our neighborhood and we don't want to.

I

See those change, we would consider it differently. I think then they would. I.

J

Mean they may eventually come around to that point and decide that they want.

J

This to be district, yes, I'm just saying the doors open in the future. We have the.

N

Statewide asuras raishin conference coming up in april. It's going to be in.

N

South bend this year, some of you attended the camp training last year. The.

N

Camp trainings available again this year, if you'd like to go, I have a scholarship.

N

Available so whether that's taking three or four commissioners to the camp.

N

Training for a day or whether that's one of you coming with me to this conference.

N

For two days and ten in some of those workshops and.

N

Sessions the opportunities available for you, I think it's it's. I put the the.

N

Conference itinerary in there, so you could could see the kind of sessions.

N

They're having the topics they're talking about, this is wonderful chance.

N

To talk preservation with people with other communities, you know network a.

N

Little bit, I think I found last year's conference to be to be wonderful and I.

N

Have no doubt that this year's will be just as good, if not better, so I wanted.

N

To a value of that information- and you need to let me know before march 1st, if.

N

You would like essentially to go for free, so well. I think they. Let me split.

N

The camp session out cuz camp was only, I believe, 25 at there, a person, and they said well, rather than doing a full conference. Scholarship.

N

We'll just give you can't for your commission is the deal I made with him.

N

Last year, so we could certainly do something like that again this year. If I.

N

Have enough of you interested in attending the camp session? You know and.

N

I'd be happy to go to that as well. So, like I said just think about it, let me.

N

Know if you want to go to south bend for a day or two and enjoy this, because it's.

N

An awesome opportunity.

N

Yeah, it's I don't remember in the packet the camps on tuesday, I'm looking at now.

N

Give me one second yep, so it's the 14th april is the camp and then the regular.

N

Conference is that the 15th and 16th can we.

N

So restaurant row design guidelines discussion be happy to table that to the.

N

Next meeting so long or we can talk about it now, I don't know if anyone had.

N

Comments and feedbacks it's up to you guys, maybe to get comments in writing. I.

J

Have a bunch of comments in writing, but I was gonna talk about him here, but.

J

Maybe if anybody does have comments encouraging the send them to you so.

J

Maybe you can consolidate whatever come in stare. Art is wonderful. Ok, yes,.

I

Business, so I would like to make a motion for a grant to investigate the.

I

Core building and see if it's worthy of national register, designation.

I

That's something that this body can do and it's a $400 grant or something like.

I

That but it would help leverage the core building and give it a different future.

I

With those tax credits, wait what grantor you referring to it's.

I

Just a grant that the commission gives for design and and for this kind of so.

N

We can use it to pay for someone to investigate a building. Well, we would.

I

Know we would hit pay for them to do the national register designation. It's up to.

I

The everyday I understand, yeah yeah, okay, I'll, look into that chris. Well, I'm.

I

Making a motion, because I think we got to get it- we should vote on it. I meant.

I

To do this last meeting and times ticking away so yeah, it's better as a.

I

Precedent, the three make a motion that we for the to make the national register.

I

Designation, the designation recommendation national register.

I

Recommendation to the proper authorities.

I

And my memory is, it's been a $400 grant in the past yeah that's for design work.

N

For the historic facade design, I don't know I'll see if I can use that money.

N

For this, but we've done it before.

B

Duncan till we figure out, if we can actually do it, I believe we can do it. I.

I

Think we should express our opinion up that we should do it.

N

So we thought to put out a you know, rfp and everything like that and then the.

N

Training for 400 hours- what's that you don't have to, I don't think you've to.

M

Put an rfp out for for $400, but I think what I would do I mean, depending on what.

M

Happens is talk to duncan first because I think you're right. I think duncan's.

M

You remember how we did it, but it wasn't for that kind of money. You didn't have.

M

To do anything, you could do well, there's a little uncertainty so like if we want.

I

To wait till next meeting we can find out if we can do it talk to duncan. I was.

B

Going to use the forum any public comments, any announcements in efficient.

B

Comments all right.

A