City of Bloomington, Indiana Historic Preservation Commission, 27 Feb 2020

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From YouTube: Bloomington Historic Preservation Commission, February 27, 2020

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meeting packet: https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=5491

A

I like to call bloomington destroyed preservation commission to order for.

B

February 27th 2020 saunders here mr. baum campbell to nato air ritchie all.

B

Right, let's move on to approval of our minutes from where our 13th meeting yes.

C

Yes, all right, we want to stiff against inappropriateness, it will start out with.

B

There's two: a 22 inch: 10 6:14 was allen street mcdowell, historic district. This.

D

Was a staff review and approval there's a slew of alterations being done to the.

D

Building they were gonna they've removed. Well, you can see here they removed this.

D

Before it was approved, so in a way it's a retroactive coa, but it was a poorly.

D

Constructed shed addition on the east elevation or the removal, the chimney.

D

Removal of a partial brick veneer here on the front facade removal of two.

D

Windows on the north elevation, which was the rear of the building and replacement.

D

Of board-and-batten siding with final lap, siding steph, finds that besides the.

D

Chimney, none of the features being removed were original to the building and staff supports the petitioners. Investment in this non-contributing.

D

Building find that the scope of work and potentially return the building to a contributing status, so staff made the.

D

Approval there it's just about what did they say about not understanding that.

E

They should have done something about applying perceive a so. The owners are.

D

From rhode island- and I don't think they were aware of the historic district and.

D

The process for all that, so this one was actually brought to my attention by.

D

Someone who saw the work going on and I was able to contact them and stop.

D

Everything in his tracks and by that stage, just that addition to that check.

F

Her phone down just two little questions. The first one is: is it okay to use vinyl.

G

Siding and the historic, absolutely mcdowell, yes, mcdole, okay and the second.

G

Was I saw mention in it something about a 20 20 by 20 parking, gravel parking? You.

G

Might mention to them? I don't think that's legal if it's that's our c zone.

H

It's 20 by 20.

H

Surface coverage 40 there's a maximum.

D

This is a major question: jenny, that's not as much my concerns playing takes.

D

Care of all that before they give up. Okay, all right. That sounds good. Thank.

G

D

See you a 20-4 is the 703 south woodlands in the elm heights, historic.

D

District, this is given the rating I'm contributing it's an arts and crafts.

D

Foursquare built circa 1920 background to this is the petitioner had completed.

D

The work without obtaining a coa, essentially, I believe they had some some.

D

Water issues a leak of a pipe of some sort, and so they had to tear out a small.

D

Wooden deck here between the stoops that existed before and then this was.

D

Rebuilding that, although they did rebuild it slightly larger than the one.

D

Before and then, while they're at it, they said these railings were not.

D

Structurally sound and so sorry there was iron railings here before they.

D

Removed those and added these these wooden railings, so greeting the elm.

D

Heights historic district guidelines, it talks about architectural metals and.

D

State that the removal or replacement of metal elements requires a coa.

D

And that substitute material should only be considered if using the original.

D

Materials not technically feasible. I don't believe that was the case here. I.

D

Wasn't able to verify the condition of the original iron railings, so I don't.

D

Know as to their, you know, integrity or condition, but the staff recommendation.

D

Would be a partial approval of this staff recommends approval of the.

D

Replacement of the wooden platform between the stoops, the guidelines, own.

D

Address this kind of a feature: it's small enough- that it doesn't really.

D

Impact the story character of the overall building and it can be easily.

D

Removed in the future staff does recommend that the metal railings be.

D

Reinstalled metal guardrails are a feature of the streetscape in the area.

D

And I can show you some examples of that just up and down the street here you see.

D

A lot of these metal rail for these front, porch walks and staff.

D

Finds that those wooden ones are really out of place and that the metal ones.

D

Should be either reinstalled or new ones found that are similar to the old ones.

D

And installed great, thank you. Do you have any additional comments.

B

You'd like to add, I just wanted to give more clarification on what what caused.

I

The initial construction, we had a sewer pipe a place to her pipe that collapsed.

I

In on itself, they had to dig up the entire front yard, which you'll see to.

I

The left side, it's a little bit more money when we decided to build it up. We.

I

Decided to build it up because we were worried about rot if we left it down on.

I

The ground and then once again with replacing the metal going up and down.

I

The stairs we did that, because they were it, was placed, would whoever had put it.

I

In didn't put it in well, and it was literally like a safety concern at that.

I

Point we are a rental company and I'm the safety of our tenants was a question.

B

Thank you jeff questions, chris, just for staff that that porch.

E

Just has bare treated wood, would it be within our purview to say, put a dark.

E

Stain on it do something that makes it not look like a deck in front.

I

We're just waiting for the weather to get better great. Thank you, jerry uh yeah, the! I think those are concrete steps. They're.

G

Not limestone, no, those are limestone, yeah they're and it's just the outer.

G

Edge the earth, it's wood between no down where the rails are yeah. These are I.

J

Think those are concrete yeah. I would like to mention to the owner that they.

G

Have are in possession of a limestone ribbon drive and please not change that.

G

They might not be aware that a driveway could be protected, so I just like to.

G

Mention it well, we have the chance, no questions, sam, oh my it's neighborhood.

K

Design review committee looked at this and do they have an opinion.

G

They knew about it and actually mentioned it to the workers might have.

L

Said: okay, they did. I have a couple of questions for the petitioner as well.

K

So the there's this wood deck, that's in filled between the two limestone steps.

K

Google map says there's actually not earlier. There was not an infill wood.

K

Deck there this is brand new infill and it's just the limestone steps came down.

K

To a to a concrete walk and then out.

I

Looks like that, that's what it looked like before you guys did it. Do you mind.

K

No, so that's google maps from this area, yeah yeah, that's what you did so my.

K

Question is the surface the surface of the steps you have? Would you go back to.

K

The well yeah go to the google maps and then yeah. So you've got like these.

K

Limestone steps that come to a concrete, walk at grade this is this is just like.

K

A slab, no that's carpet or something on it. So it's like a limestone boy in front.

K

Of wood steps yeah like if you pull everything out through the step through.

I

So, underneath that you fill everything up all right, because I think connor not.

I

Had that conversation via email that the snow steps did not get removed so you've.

K

Been filled, the steps it looks like the bottom one or two steps is the is the.

K

Riser height unaffected, okay, so by code you're required to have like you, have a.

K

Set of steps and each step has to be the same height. Did you change that? No, not.

I

To my knowledge, like I said, did not warm, you need a coa which was I've been running. The.

I

Properties for two years- so I just realized this, but he he's familiar with.

I

The code, so, to my knowledge, no, but that's definitely something I'd, be.

I

Willing to look into okay and then it all sorry go ahead, and then it also.

K

Looks like there's some gray stuff on top of the deck. What is that just so.

I

It's just, we might guess we have times, and things like that, so we use cedar for.

I

The exterior, but on the interior, where it's making the most traffic we just use.

I

A truck deck easy to clean, so it's a composite wood, plastic, stuff. Okay, thank.

K

B

I don't have any questions. Oh comments, jeff proposed to us I'm motion yeah. I.

E

Did have a question which I'll just take before the comment. Just what was the.

E

Motive of putting that there we can add steps and a walk.

E

Was that a leak problem with that line, so the sewer line literally comes right.

I

Underneath that and then the it collapsed, they literally had to be.

I

Replaced from underneath like right in the middle all the way out to the street.

I

Or they kind of had to destroy that you had to dig into that so that cement.

I

Piece that you guys were seeing where the wood was completely dug up and the.

I

Reason we were so quick to act was because I was getting several phone calls from very angry parents or that they're tracking mud in the house, and so.

I

I was just trying to address that issue. I do want to express my apologies. I know.

I

I'm working to read up on the code and working sugar in the districts. There was.

I

No intent, on my end, at least as the property manager to offend anybody, so.

E

Comment would be, I agree about, the wood rails are just inappropriate, they might.

E

Consider a little bit of railing on the remainder you know if their concern for.

E

Safety of their tenants, even the single step.

I

Like are you talking where this time stones come down, there yeah a little.

E

Railing there, and maybe something on those, if I'm talking too much, it's.

I

Because I don't know the protocol for these evenings a few just let me know.

I

Would you guys be open to the wooden railings if we let you guys choose any.

I

Stain color, if you want, like whatever color you want no, but you could put in.

E

An iron rail, if I can't tell from here, but it looks like safety issue to coming.

E

Out of them, yeah you're correct place we're working on. If you know what to do.

E

We just wanted to reassure: we figure out what you guys decided. You'd have to come.

E

Back to to connor again, who might give staff approval, but if you put iron.

E

Railings attached to the brick on that side, you could not. You can keep it at a.

E

Minimum- and that is simple iron just to protect someone at that single step. I'm.

E

Going to argue with you, please do well so go ahead and then I'd like some.

E

Suggestions of others around the table that dark with something dark, stain.

E

Would have step or disappear or not look so dead like is there a step to the.

G

Right side down to the sidewalk that goes over to yeah, okay, yeah, I don't like crazy about the I mean the decks already have.

G

Changed, I'm not sure, I'm crazy about it rail around the deck. I agree they.

G

Probably need a lightweight black, you know that matches maybe the one out, but.

E

I don't sail on the death. Oh okay, I misunderstood that um yeah, but the steps.

G

Could use something to grab ahold of coming down if care was taken about not.

G

Much better to put it in the brick or stick it in the limestone or just to get.

G

In the dirt outside it there's something done a minimal where you just have a bar.

E

A bar and a bar, you know, and that could be really simple there and it could be.

E

Simple on that side of the limestone, or you could put a simple, a metal bar.

E

Against the brick, but that may not work because of those columns.

B

Thank you. Well, I got here late, but I I don't quite understand the purpose of.

M

The deck altogether, I understand that there was an excavation there, but why.

M

Not just let the walk back in, maybe you want that for me. Well, I guess it's.

M

Rhetorical you can answer the plan, no reason why we still one of the things.

I

With that piece of wood, that was there basically kind of fell apart whenever we.

I

Peeled it up off of it. That was one of the reasons why we raised it to is.

I

Because from all the moisture it was getting on the ground, it was basically.

I

Just molding and deteriorating it's also it's just kind of creating like a slip.

I

Hazard there was a really huge hole in between the cement, and so basically we.

I

Were just working on creating a little steps as possible for each other and.

I

There wasn't like that. I mean.

M

I mean once the excavation was done in the sewer pipe is in place. Why not just.

M

Put the walk back in, like you think, lazy mit! Well, our limestone well know what it.

M

Looks like it's concrete, I mean it seems, a lot simpler solution and it wouldn't.

M

Change the appearance, I thought it wouldn't hide the steps wouldn't alter.

M

The original condition it wouldn't make it any less date, any more or less.

M

Dangerous, I just I just don't. I think the solution is clumsy to be honest with.

M

You and- and it seems such a like sister, simple fix- I mean I mean I could get.

M

That maybe people were complaining because during the work and maybe.

M

Immediately afterwards, it was dangerous or muddy or or whatever, and there are.

M

Temporary remedies for that, but this is a this- is a permanent construction that.

M

Just seems completely inappropriate to the architecture. I'm sorry, that's my.

M

Opinion and the wood railings are not acceptable either.

M

That's it yeah, it's like so the wood we're talking about it looks like.

N

They've kind of made a ramp there, too. Probably it looked like from the concrete landing between the stairs that they had a tow.

N

Tripper to the sidewalk, maybe so they put in some wood there to ramp it and do.

N

Away with it- and I see I'm not a fan of the the wooden deck that's been built, I.

N

See what he probably did is because that see that first stair, the first riser to.

N

The left, how it's a lot smaller and it was probably just easier for them to.

N

Build but I see what you're saying, because they could have dug it out enough and gotten the same sized riser that they needed and poured something.

N

Out of concrete yeah, I mean you're, gonna, dig it up anyway. Yeah go ahead and take.

M

Out, what's not working and make it yourself a level sidewalk in your.

M

Problems gone and there's no maintenance, there's no repair, there's for a hundred.

N

Years, I think the the mean the wood things in place. It certainly can be.

N

Easily removed, if it needed to be down the road, I agree with conor. It's not. I.

N

Don't think it's necessarily permanent. I would like to have seen it smaller, but.

N

It's kind of coming out at you and is kind of in-your-face, but an artist of.

M

Coa requesting to make it permanent, yeah, yeah and and then on the on the.

N

Railings I on the handrails I mean yeah, I'm not that's just so big and again out.

N

Of character with a, what I wondered, though, is, is there in trying to put the.

N

Metal railings back they'll, you know, will end up. I imagine with some concrete.

N

Poured and then either a simple pipe rail or something could you and I'm just.

N

Asking this for my fellow board members here: could you remove the bottom board.

N

Leave the four uprights like that looks like six by sixes and then run a pipe a.

N

Pipe rail between those, no okay, because I thought that would at least tighten it.

N

K

It's totally inappropriate, like I said I think, you'd end up digging a hole at the.

N

Post hole and pouring concrete because you don't want to split anything there.

N

If you drilled into those existing concrete, no first yeah, yeah yeah, like I.

N

Said I think, the the patio, the wood deck is just really over scaled in trying to.

N

Solve what was really a simple solution? It mean it's not wide enough like you've.

N

Made it into a deck to put chairs on it looks like a runway now, instead of a.

N

Walkway, but that's all my comments, I've got. I think this is actually covered.

K

Under the elm heights design guidelines section five point: four porches and.

K

Porticos because they talked about steps and entry porches and that sort of thing.

K

And the guidelines for porches and porticos when you're talking about.

K

Repairing or replacing them it says, consider compatible new materials only.

K

If using original materials is inadvisable or unfeasible, and I think.

K

Neither of those conditions fit here. I think this is ungainly and inappropriate.

K

Both the railing and the infill there may be some drainage issues which they.

K

Can accommodate by sloping the first bit of either limestone or a concrete.

K

Sidewalk, but I think this kind of infill is you know it's it's quick. It's easy.

K

But it's sort of an accretion all erosion of the architectural integrity.

K

Of the building- and that is something I think we have to be very careful and.

K

Guard against so I would very much opposed leaving this, as is, and I would.

K

Very much like to see this returned to the original state.

K

And if they have drainage issues, which they obviously do have the new work with.

K

Compatible original materials accommodate any future drainage issues.

K

And I looked at, I also looked at the google maps on that the old metal.

K

Railings there were nothing special, but there were metal railings. So you know.

K

There's, I think, a range of metal railings that would be appropriate. Yeah.

K

Yeah I mean, but the ones that were here before that they took out were like in.

K

1960S, you know they're they're like, but there's this sort of a slenderness and a.

K

Delicacy has been obliterated by putting in these wooden things, and you know I.

K

Think there's a total range of things that would be appropriate for.

K

Replacement railings but woulding one of them. I moved that they take it out and.

H

Put back what was there before with some metal railings, that her staff approved.

J

Not get anything.

F

Existing and not approve the part of this see away regarding the railings for.

F

The stairs subject and then it was being replaced subject to review my father. I.

E

Would add that gray or dark or stain be put on the in the gray dark family? That.

C

Bruce, yes, canvas our know: jeff golden yes down, lockers, it's to krista boehm,.

B

Yes, three yeses, one abstention.

C

Motion carries thank you I'll, be I'll get with you tomorrow. Absolutely thank.

B

You, let's be allowed to see you a 22-8, 812 south morton street.

B

All right located in the mcdole local authorities tricked this is a.

D

Contributing building it's an american foursquare, build circa 1925, the.

D

Petitioners previously received approvals for some alterations to the.

D

Instructure several months ago, this is a new coa for, in addition to the rear, the.

D

Addition is going to be to the rear of the home. An addition will serve as.

D

Living space will also serve to connect the historic structure to the currently.

D

Detached garage, some of the petitioners, is a better plan, so you can see it. Staff.

D

Recommends approval conditioned approval, coa, 28 staff finds.

D

At the location addition to the rear is appropriate. Staff finds that the.

D

Addition is appropriately scaled and is subordinate to the primary structure.

D

Staff finds that the cement board lap siding standing, seam, metal, roof and.

D

Fenestration on the addition is also compatible with the primary historic.

D

Structure, however, staff finds that there's not enough differentiation to.

D

Distinguish between the historic building and the addition, as currently.

D

Proposed staff recommends approval if the petitioner agrees to differentiate.

D

Either maybe in setting the addition, so it's not run along a contiguous wall or.

D

Differentiation is accomplished with some use of siding or other.

D

Architectural features at the junction where the two come together, so if staff.

D

Finds that if the petitioner could meet that differentiation request, then.

D

Approval should be given the petitioners with us great. Thank you.

B

Okay, gm: the additional comments to make no we're having some questions.

A

Great thank you jeff jim questions, chris yeah, but staff. Consider if it was.

E

Setback enough, so that the overhang terminated with society yeah. Yes, I'm.

D

Slight inset from the building wall at the primary structure. That's all I got.

E

Yeah something some trim board that matches the front something some break.

G

There, otherwise it goes ranch-style on the bottom four square on the top, but.

G

You have been long very long, rectangle going on there but yeah other than that.

G

I guess that wasn't a question so sorry.

O

No license sam, but staff and petitioner also be willing to consider just a break.

K

In trim like a vertical trim board there, thank you jimmy valid comments, piece of.

F

Trim we'll do this nicely it's differentiated and enough with a.

F

Level of the of this property, that's what I was angry. The front width trim on.

G

The front so it should come all the way down from the top corner down if they're.

G

Gonna do the trim and probably on the back corner.

B

N

I'm stayin sam. I saw her kid holding this john saunders. Yes, it's christian.

C

Yes, motion carries. Thank you, jt, all right. Okay, thank you for coming in to.

B

See me great location. Thank you. Okay, let's move on to ceo a.

B

20-9 410, with smith avenue, we've created a prospect he'll. This is a actually an.

D

Ad, you grandfathered in on a lot that the primary structure is actually on.

D

Madison, but this ad you is given its own address for tents in west mitchell and.

D

As john said, it's located in greater prospect hill. This structure was given.

D

Its individual rating of contributing on the latest historic resource survey, it's.

D

A little unusual wow, I can't say that sometimes ad users are given ratings and.

D

Sometimes they're not this one was actually rated and noted on the survey.

D

Individually, the petitioner is asking for several alterations. Some pretty.

D

Major ones, you can well here's the current structure here, it's in poor.

D

Condition this is what their proposed drawing, so you can see that they want to.

D

Replace the gable roof with a shed style roof, replace the siding with fiber.

D

Cement board and batten replace and reorient some of the windows they're.

D

Going to be using aluminum, clad wood, awning windows, you can see here some.

D

Examples yeah and I was looking at the greater prospect hill design guidelines and I.

D

Couldn't really find where the guidelines differentiate between primary.

D

And accessory structures when it comes to alterations from the public right.

D

Away so I didn't find a whole lot of guidance in there. I did look at sanborn.

D

Map and I determined that there was a structure there when the primary.

D

Building was built in the 30s, so this is certainly sort of from the same era of.

D

Construction, however, that structure was much smaller and in talking to the.

D

Petitioner, he also believes that that structure that was original to the the.

D

Primary building was probably enlarged at some stage in the and maybe the 40s.

P

Or the 50s, huh you think you think it was smaller on.

D

The map yeah, as I say like I, think it's all like 300 square feet right now. Yes,.

H

Even smaller on the map, yet yeah I mean it looks compared. You know, it looks much.

D

Smaller and lowers yeah, and I include a copy of the same maps in the packet.

D

Yes, okay, so yeah. We think it's from the same area of construction and it's a.

D

Contributing structure- and these are pretty major differences, so staff would.

D

Find that these changes would likely render it non-contributing just because.

D

It's such a radical roof change to a shed. I don't find the board-and-batten.

D

Necessarily horrible for the atu of the out building, so staff would defer to hpc.

D

On this, there's a lot going on.

B

Do you have any in traditional comments.

P

No, I'm not like totally dead set on that design necessarily, but I don't. I feel.

P

Like it would, although it's a lot like the shed roof is a lot more modern. My.

P

Plan is is to have all the trim, details and things kind of fitting with the dish.

P

That is the main house and with historic houses. So I guess whatever you guys do.

P

You find it really offensive. I'm totally.

P

Different ideas, jeff questions, yes, are conferences. The change of the roof is.

F

There some other reason, besides getting south-facing sun and not really miss our.

J

Insulation, detail, and, and also like, if you see how that roof has been like.

P

Sliced and like jacked up to make room to like walk a person inside and having.

P

The I mean it didn't even have it doesn't even have gutters on it, but even.

P

With a gutter, it would be kind of an ugly and awkward way to enter.

P

Great thanks: doesn't it yes go six wouldíve chris yeah, it's like that. It's.

E

Really short squat, I understand how that makes it livable.

E

Questions no questions is underneath, that is, that car siting vertical car.

G

Sitting yeah, I think it's t 111, underneath it is some sort of a vertical.

P

G

Once we change something that much you'd say it be non-contributing and visit of.

G

A style didn't it would even if somebody had come forward and say I want to build.

G

This little building with that or benetton style that was acceptable. The.

G

One that's presented, that was.

M

Those are the kinds of questions that you're supposed to answer. I think you're.

M

Going there I mean I mean I asked had the same question about the under.

M

Sighting you know that the sighting that's obviously been covered up. I mean.

M

Traditionally, these in these situations, when they've been altered, these.

M

Buildings have been altered, I mean I think connor is asking to the right.

M

Question about this is leading to a question, but about whether this is the.

M

Building that we're seeing actually seeing on the sanborn or not- and it's.

M

Not look, it almost looks to me like the orientation is different, so I don't know.

M

That I think it is but in any case usually go back and look at an historic.

M

Building and say: okay: well, how was this thing originally built and you skin back.

M

That t 111 and you see what's there and you try to determine if that was.

M

Original sighting, it wouldn't be unlikely for it to be car sighting car.

M

Sighting comes along in the early 20th century when they're lining freight cars.

M

That's what it's that's, what it's why it's called car sighting! You know try to.

M

Take your clues from the building: that's there because I don't think we're gonna.

M

Want it to lose its contributing status.

P

19:26 map showing it being smaller because looking at the framing inside.

P

Like most of the framing is really routed out and has like a lot of turn, my.

P

Carpenter ant damage and like the way, though, like the water penetration of.

P

This place over the years and so crazy yeah that, like the framing, is like card.

P

Or you know it's like styrofoam on it, but the way that it had been framed is.

P

It looks like a lot of old sheds, I kind of like a hybrid post-and-beam. You know.

P

Skeleton but then they had like kind of tetris in fields, and you do drywall and.

P

Stuff later on, so I feel, like the some of the framing, looks like the structure.

P

Was that size originally yeah, I mean mostly being framing, wouldn't be unusual.

M

What I don't look like that that everything that era I'm trying to the.

P

Foundation was definitely like. I don't know what it's a ton.

P

Originally, but when they put plumbing in there, they definitely dug out a little crawlspace to deal with the plumbing and.

P

Put some six-inch concrete block foundation on there and I imagine that.

P

Was like in the 50s or something when they turned it into like? Well, I was.

P

Probably up beers, did he bring that up darrell? Can I make it bigger hi, kansas.

D

Much as this zooms in I can try and find on google maps into my zoom in a little.

D

M

Anyway, my question was, but you started to answer: maybe you've answered it.

M

Completely, which was what else can you see in there? That would give us some.

M

Idea of its age and origin.

P

Yeah, I believe it was. It was built like as a an outbuilding or a shed yeah like.

P

Probably in the 1920s and then they converted it into like an efficiency.

P

Studio, probably the 1950s, based on the way that they had kind of put it up on.

P

That foundation, it's like two core block and some of the other old stuff was like.

P

Kind of fit could have been 50s and then they kind of just piled laminate and.

P

Crap up on top of the surfaces until you know it lost even more square footage.

P

So I think that I think that that uh car siding, I think that probably is original.

P

To whatever the shed was like, I don't it's not salvageable, but that's the well.

P

Yeah, we don't really know that we can't see it yeah. That's true.

M

All right, that's all the question. No questions. Jeff jeff asked my about.

N

The roof know what siting is the main building.

P

It's got horizontal, like redwood lap, siding that's 5-inch, pretty much yeah.

H

Okay, thank you, which I I like. I would honestly prefer.

P

That but when I started drawing that shed roof for whatever reason, the.

P

Board-And-Batten, just didn't like the horizontal, just didn't look right, mm-hmm.

H

Do you against that slow? Thank you. I don't have a question.

B

So münster.

F

We don't like it to people I keep that same. I could keep us like a similar.

P

Gable situation becomes desperate, just raise it up so that you ride enough.

P

Roads like for some reason in mind, like like the face of the side that faces.

P

Smith, which is the gutter side right there for the eve I I just imagined.

P

Walking up to the gable being better. But in terms of like rotating and 180.

P

Degrees, I don't necessarily happen good argument for that.

P

I just prefer I like your design and don't think it's appropriate. I think the.

F

Keeping this as close to what it was is a better course of action, and if you can.

F

Say if you know take the t1, have it off and see? What's.

F

There yeah I'm guessing you're gonna, say because would you say I I I remodeled it.

P

With this same roof pitch, I'm a gable raise it up, so that it's a little bit.

P

More adequate interior space would you suggest that I do a horizontal, siding or.

P

Try to keep the structure as a further as my car siding its personnel boots, get.

F

The tlc here is your sound and then maybe minute. What's there.

F

Yeah, if you have to replace that's my comment, yeah about a block away from.

E

Here we rebuild what was building. I was working on that other house like right.

P

Behind right got a mini split. You know that matt was doing right. So I would I.

E

Agree as much work as you do on the first plan, you could simply raise the.

E

Roof, so it makes sense because you've injured heavy for just go in the door.

E

Yes or not, so that was like my first design yeah because of simplicity.

P

Because of you know the running the rain water back to the gutter on the back of.

P

The house and running it out, but that's not really historically applicable, stuff.

P

That just mean being lazy and then we used we reuse. We got new car site.

E

The exterior that yeah, because I would be totally up for that you know ii like.

P

To try to save the car siding to to put a new car, siding you that stuff's, no.

P

Good I've been in there and I don't think that'll be say: pible yeah. It's.

P

Like when I okay, when I pulled off the it had like this real awful ranch casing,.

P

Around the doors, when I pulled that ranch casing off, it was just like a nest.

P

Of termites behind it and the way that the crawlspace is the way that it sits.

P

On the grade, the crawlspace fills up with like a feet of water right and.

P

Between that and and the roof and everything and like order person who you.

P

Know was the tenant when we got the place it was. You know it's pretty.

P

Decimated with a lot of the wood edible stuff, like the idea of the building.

E

That's what salvageable, if you recreate it again taller it'll, fit.

B

Jenny mmm is that a well top in front there or just a stone wagner. I'm sorry.

G

Love in front of the front door, uh-huh there's a square piece of limestone.

G

There is that a well top. You know, I think it's justice. I think, there's just.

P

Like some pieces of limestone laid down as like a sidewalk up to the door.

P

I haven't actually dug that piece up and tried to move it, but I I seriously I.

P

Don't think it's um well there's a cistern in the other house. Okay! um Well,.

G

I think there's other ways to to clear your door and stuff like that. Rather.

G

Than going to a modern does alright, it's not that I mind the modern design. That's.

J

Not it would look really, I think it with a god and its new bit. This historic.

G

District, I I think, yeah. I think you might have to come back how about now. I.

G

Think you could possibly put a little pop shed roof up there if the other.

G

Design, yeah or not, or you could do a little pink in front that would make it.

G

Look kind of more cottagey, but it would be less shetty.

E

Make the walls taller, I just wasn't sure how sturdy his walls are gonna, be if.

G

There's no okay, it's my my only comment. First was if there is a well top there.

G

You know you should avoid it. I know you'll probably put aside sorry, can the.

L

Public make a comment. Certainly car siding into the ground is.

L

A wicking problem there's an open end grain. So that's probably why just.

L

Contributing to some of the things that you're seeing so maybe there's a hybrid.

L

Of pulling some materials off the house and you might be able to sock up the car.

L

Siding a few feet off the ground and save the rest of it. Equal justice and.

P

Breeze yeah and then maybe do something different. Just new car siding is not.

L

Gonna last, at all, your open end grain yeah yeah near the ground, I'm gonna pull.

L

It up just just just a common thing: everybody try to run it in.

P

Like a trip, you do something for like a trim or horizontal trim and do what you.

L

Can to seal that in gray, because it's just a spa, yeah so yeah. I think the.

M

Trick here is to let me yet sounds from what chris is saying, and what you're.

M

Saying that the building's pretty far gone so assuming you have to reframe.

P

That's part of the reason that I, like I came up with a totally different design.

P

Because I know how much I would have to rebuild it well, I understand that, but we.

M

Don't want to lose the contributing nature of it, and so at this point it's.

M

Like the most that the best solution will be the one that looks the most like.

M

The original building did probably and imitates the materials at least an.

M

Intention, if not in fact so as opposed to your redesign, I mean I think at that.

M

Point you come in here and ask us to tear it down and then get permission for.

M

Your new design, because because but if you're intent on.

M

Saving this that I think you have to do it, we have to look at the same way of.

M

Saving as we wouldn't any historic building sure if you could justify that.

M

It's too far gone to save. Then we consider that yeah, I think duncan makes.

N

A great point: that's what I was thinking is it's almost like you're you're asking.

N

For a demo permit in a way without really asking for and if it's as bad a.

N

Shape as it sounds like, and normally we don't get a chance eyes of a lot of.

N

These structures so having you know chris, having seen it before as well.

N

Helps out, I think, while I like your shed roof design and that's an outbuilding, I.

N

Think it's appropriate, but I think for this site, given the the contributing.

N

Nature of the design- that's there, I think, keeping that vocabulary is.

N

Important yeah, I think you see this group is willing to say. Okay, let's add.

N

Another foot in height that that's what it takes to to clear the door and get.

N

You, the headroom, you need, but I think, staying with the kind of roof pitch that.

N

You've got here that raising it. You know, I think, we're also pretty lucky that.

N

You're wanting to try to do something with this, because in my eyes, this.

N

Structure pretty far gone so we're trying to kind of recreate it, but we're.

N

Also trying to keep that vocabulary or feeling of what that neighborhood is.

N

What this building is to the existing building so trying to keep with those.

N

Characteristics is about all: we've got left on this structure and probably is.

N

What is important, that's all my comments. Yeah yeah, I think if the petitioner is.

K

Willing to stay within the footprint today with the roof slope stay with the.

K

Exterior siding- and you know, in a sort of a loosey-goosey way, with the.

K

Fenestration, I'm perfectly happy to get a staff approve version of this going.

D

Today, about keeping the roof shape and that's into consideration or you can.

E

Orbit or continue, we can just continue with. With the petitioners permission, we.

D

Can continue, we could do that, I mean, but it's like I. I don't know that it merits.

K

That I mean I don't necessarily want to hold it up, because I think there's good.

H

Well here, and I think he's trying to do the right thing and if condors look at.

H

The bursts over I have, I don't have an issue with it, and commissioners would.

H

Agree with that, I would think I wouldn't think it would slow them down to come.

E

Back in two years, with some semblance of what he's going to do and then then we.

E

Would still if it isn't settled, connor could oversee, but right now it's there's.

E

No real design, we just didn't think it looks sort of like that.

D

I know that we prove the sea away.

F

Keeping in mind the comments made about commissioners tonight and the building.

F

At least mimics the style mimics, the style that exists now subject to connor.

F

I don't think that's I mean you're approving a plan that he's put on a.

M

Piece of paper for one thing, we've all said that we don't like it. So I think I.

M

Think your point about continuing at least he comes back with a plan. That's.

M

Based on maybe further investigation pull offs on that plywood. Let him make.

M

Things he knows what we want him to do, but that way he can create a scope of.

M

Work that fits that model and then you're improving, what's actually going.

M

To happen because otherwise we don't have any.

Q

Can we just say no on that, but come back and do sack.

D

Petitioner has something to say: well, what I was gonna say is: if I agree you.

P

Know I'm keeping the same the footprint and if I agreed to keep the, I think it's.

P

A six and twelve roof pitch same roof orientation and just raise it enough to.

P

Have a door trimmed out that someone can walk through and totally scrap that.

P

Other drawing that I did and I agreed to remove the t one eleven salvage, that.

P

Material, if it's salvageable or replaced with equivalent vertical siding and then.

P

Be in touch with conor, with anik draw a final plan. Would that be acceptable? You.

E

Do all that stuff and then just come back in two weeks.

F

C

That groups yes and sóller news jeff will then do john saunders. Yes, thank you.

B

Thank you very much thanks for sure you don't have to leave all right. Let's move.

B

On to see you eight twenty nine eleven all right, this is the proposed new.

D

Construction on the lock, that is, one thousand and nine west 9th street. We.

D

Previously approved demolition of a historic structure, so this is the new.

D

Construction coming at you petitioner mark cornett. This is the near west side.

D

Conservation district: this would be a new construction of a single-family.

D

Residential home there are no variance is needed by listicle ii. It's similar to.

D

An american foursquare setback will match the setback of the previous house.

D

In the law within a few inches can see here at the site plan. The orange is the.

D

Footprint of the houses that were there before materials list foundation, cmu.

D

Siding painted cement board lap windows hpc could pick those primary roof.

D

Asphalt, shingles porch, roof asphalt, shingle or standing seam metal, so mark.

D

From what I understand has given us a few options to choose from.

D

He's kind of open to as far as the stylistic detailing defenestration.

D

Things like that, some of the like the porch roof material can change. But what.

D

We're really looking at is the bigger picture of the house here and staff.

D

Finds at the height the scale, the massing, the setback at the proposed.

D

Structure is compatible for the district staff finds that the proposed design.

D

Differentiates itself from the district's historic buildings through fenestration, the contrast of upper level, siding and the foundation material and.

D

Staff finds that the proposed design meets the compat, yet differentiated standard required for new construction in a conservation.

D

District and therefore recommends approval.

D

Okay, can we consider both these two ways together, 2012 as well, because the houses.

B

Are next door to each other and it's the same builder? Would that be acceptable.

B

Okay, great okay, jeff, though, actually marked do you.

B

Have additional information? Yes, thanks! Thanks for letting us come today and.

L

Present this information, the owner of radar cross, is here with me as well, and.

L

It was happy to answer any questions. A couple of things I'd like to mention.

L

About the summary is that we did lists a variety of window types, fiberglass, vinyl,.

L

Clad wood, so with what I was really trying to do is give options the looks.

L

Will be there it'll be a double hung, it'll be a traditional proportioned.

L

Window etc, but the porch, the porch variety, the siding variety, whether it's.

L

Board-And-Batten in the top third, whether it's two different size of.

L

Clabber, whether we do a shed porch or shingle and fill in the upper third, we.

L

Would really looking for permission to run with it and as long as you don't.

L

Find any of the particular options objectionable we would like to resolve.

L

It internally, that's so that's why we wanted to show a variety of you know.

L

Ports, railings ports, roof styles, top third, whether it's shingle, infill or.

L

Going bad then fill those are all patterns that you see in the in the.

L

Historic core neighborhoods for four squares, and so that's really what we're.

L

Trying to present there we wouldn't, we will make them distinct from each other.

L

They won't wouldn't, for example, both have hit throughs. They wouldn't both.

L

Have flat board picket rails on the front, one might be a turned.

L

You know design, so that's really what we wanted to emphasize that we are going to.

L

Present two different styles and I'm talking too much about it, but that was.

L

Really the goal just say: hey, you guys trust us. These. These looks are okay,.

L

We're going to pick a couple and run with it.

E

Roof thickness doesn't quite look right. Well, the the shin bruise at porch roof.

L

Porch is maybe a little bit unusual in this particular case. We were looking at.

L

Options we have the hip as well in the gable, if that's one, that you would.

L

Reject, of course, we would accept that as well. That's why we want to show three or.

L

Four different different versions: did you show yeah, there's one there's a.

L

Shingle version of that it would be the same materials painted, of course, okay.

E

Those are my questions or comments, one of them it's offset. The porches is that.

E

Porch offset yes, the porch is offset intentionally as.

L

Opposed to the symmetrical and again since they're, going to set next to each.

L

Other we were trying to refer them a little bit to that there's an unapproved.

L

Alley that sits between the houses, unfortunately so they're on distinct.

L

Individual properties so which puts the house a little farther apart than they.

L

Might be because when you go over, there just looks like it to yard it's because.

L

The alleys not improved, but at some point the future. You know future.

L

Homeowners mike's select to improve that right-of-way and get two garages in the.

L

Back, for example, mm-hmm, maybe ad use of the future any of those possibilities.

L

You can see it's, you know right now that strip between is actually just grass.

L

Mm-Hmm, so we were trying to relate the houses a little bit to each other.

L

It's the offset yeah again, not mandatory, but just something we were suggesting.

L

Right, thank you. I see a lot of four squares and a lot of areas in town. I.

G

Can't place any in that area, though, was there a reason we that you went with a.

G

Foursquare for that swirls, eight that the dead end.

L

Just past the just past, the girls inc there's a foursquare at the corner of.

L

7Th and fairview there's a foursquare.

L

There's there are, there are some in the neighborhood, it's not the dominant.

L

Pattern, but in talking to connor in terms of not absolutely replicating.

L

History here we picked- maybe one that's lesser represented in the neighborhood.

L

Intentionally, so all these options, you have a problem making up your mind about.

M

How we wanted to give the commission the chance to weigh in as they don't build.

L

Two identical houses: okay, but strictly was simply that I mean normally. Then you.

M

Know this that we like for people to come to us with a design, and we can.

M

Comment on it appropriately prove it or not, approve it, and then we have a.

M

Documented design that if, for some reason it doesn't get built that way.

M

We've got recap with recourse I'll pay, two right now. Well, I wish you would.

M

Actually, because I don't personally have a problem with what you're doing there.

M

Except that, I think, for the purposes of this commission's work, we ought to be.

M

You know we ought to expect to finished proposal on new construction that so.

M

That there aren't any surprises and so that let's go back to the photo, so you.

L

Don't come back to us and say: well, you said these are okay. Well, let's go back.

L

To the two images that are colored as part of the original, let's pick that one.

L

There's no game: what's the upper is that shingle up that.

L

Is the tinnitus board-and-batten, which is a typical detail and then, let's cover.

L

The other front page on ten thousand seventeen, and let's do that. We're happy.

L

To encounter did a great job in picking those two. So do we have a materials list.

M

For each of those options, yes, I see.

D

Right, yes, okay, so I know one question, no questions, no questions.

F

Sure and trustmark he's worried. I like the.

F

Idea that we're adding to a vernacular that it's not super representative, that.

F

Area and they look different than what's around them, which is good right. I.

E

Support the two that were selected and then foursquare is a good design. I, like.

E

To use split face cmu because it pages and looks like limestone a little bit.

E

That's that'd be my suggestion. Jenny.

G

As for the the shed roof, I do know at least one four square, with the shed roof.

G

On the front- and it is original, it was an early.

G

I like it, the board-and-batten throws me on the one it makes it feel a little.

G

More a little modern, especially because it seems taller and narrower, and that.

G

Brings it up even taller and narrower, then a force carrier usually is the.

G

Proportions a little offer for squares if you're going for a four square, not.

G

Saying you have to have exact for square I'm just saying that brings it up higher.

G

It makes it look less like one, so that's that's kind of the goal of new.

D

Construction is you want to differentiate in ways the vertical side.

D

That you wouldn't find on a historic building yeah. So I'm just saying you.

G

Know thisi just the port and bat-knife names. I can't identify that with like a.

G

Really old house or 50 60 s, so it just throws me. I think I'm glad you you.

N

Picked I see what duncan was saying. I think this is what we would love to have.

N

As infill, so I think it's perfect, I think they're, I think they're gonna be a.

N

Great addition to the neighborhood, the only thing I guess I would ask, because.

N

You've asked us, is I mean, what's your preference for windows again, because.

N

We've got a call out something on it: yeah, if you, if you accept the well the.

L

List didn't make it on the materials list, but I, but when I submitted, if you.

L

Look at if you look at the petitioner statement, the list is there, so we.

L

Suggest a solid vinyl, solid, fiberglass or metal, clad wood and I'm actually.

L

We're having a lot of luck right now with full fiber glasses and we can get.

L

Colors and marvin makes them and it's a good line window and there are they're.

L

Also affordable and easy to maintain from a home perspective, I'm actually having some trouble with wood-clad with failures and.

L

Replacing sashes they're, not there, don't seem to be holding up as as well as we.

L

Would like- and in this case the wood of course, would only be visible from the.

L

Inside so that would be a more of a homeowner visual as opposed to a facade visual. So if you would accept the fiberglass, we.

L

Certainly yeah, that's what I was gonna say is, I think, to me: I'm not a fan of.

N

The vinyl and maybe that's just a throwback to some of the early vinyl.

N

That seemed to be very cheap and failed, and and twist or rack and the when it.

N

Got hot, the fiberglass stuff has been fantastic and I just wanted to bring.

N

That up so that the as we vote on something I mean my preference would be.

N

A fiberglass window which I think would be fine so other than that I think you've done a great job. That's not like that. Just to.

K

Reiterate: yeah fiber glasses, I'm a fan. Would you.

K

Conor flip back and forth between the two pretty colored ones that we like so.

K

I think the danger of showing us a bunch of different ones is is we're like. Oh, I.

K

Like this on that annoying like this on that. But if you look at the fenestration.

K

On these two different buildings, you've got almost exactly the same fenestration.

K

On the upper and lower storeys, you've got a double double hung on the porch.

K

Next to a door and then you've got a single small one over the door and a.

K

Larger double hung over the doubles. I actually find the there's another couple.

K

That you did, which have a pair of double hong's over the double hung's, which I.

K

Find more elegant, like that, fenestration combination is a little bit more elegant.

K

And I think, if you're doing two houses next to each other, I'd like to um one.

L

Maybe yeah I'd like to see one on one they're just so it's not like a carbon.

K

Copy of the same thing right next to each other, like they know, I mean iii, get.

K

What jenny is saying about the shed, I don't mind the shed roof, but I get what.

K

People are saying- and I you know my I've got a four square with a hip roof and a.

K

Hip, roof porch and I think it's much more common and I think people will.

K

Freak out less about it, so you know I'm, you know I love if you're gonna do like.

K

A standing seam metal roof. Do it at all those slopes, so it you know it makes.

K

Sense from a materialistic standpoint, but if you're not gonna, you know if.

K

You're gonna do anything: you're gonna do three and twelve or more leave it as a.

K

Common goal and save yourself some money yeah. So that's that's one thing. So if.

K

You're willing to like differentiate the fenestration, I would be most grateful.

K

I don't accept a recommendation to put a double siding transition. Sorry, no, you go.

L

Back to that image, can I want to weigh in on that before you go too far? If you.

L

Don't mind sam if you have it go back to the gray one with the gable mm-hmm, the.

L

The porch infill of the it's not board-and-batten, that's it actually and.

L

I should have picked a different color, that's a shadow, so that is an open web.

L

Pour yeah, no, that's gorgeous. Yeah you'll see the rafters. It's a.

K

Dental detail yeah no more than that's what he did to the back of my house. So I.

K

Could put in a house so there's a reason for with the board-and-batten the open.

L

Volume of the porch, the porch gable and then the narrow pickets on the on the.

L

Railing it's all of a piece mm-hmm, so I was trying to emphasize those as a.

L

System mm-hmm of detail, no, I think, that's totally appropriate yeah. That was.

L

The reason that that one looks specifically like that yeah and I.

L

Apologize at the gray in the gable man is the fiber or the bourdon band. That.

L

Shouldn't match the sink: oh yeah, I've got no issues with that I mean it's. The.

K

When you go back to the standing seam on the front, I think I think that's.

K

Perfectly fine, I just want to see like if you don't have the same fenestration.

K

From the left house to the right house, the other thing that I encourage you to.

K

Look at is at the corner. You've got like it looks like it may be: a 1 by 4 1 by 6.

K

Trim that goes all the way up to stories, and I would like to see that stopped at.

K

Where you're transitioning your materials or the other elevation yeah so.

K

Yeah that want to see that, instead of what I saw before on the previous.

K

Picture, can we do that on one, but not both well. You've got two different.

K

Siding materials right yeah, so if you've got a board and batten on one, do a board.

K

And batten trim detail on the upper bit instead of a lap siding trim, detail on.

K

That per bit just so you're saying: okay, this is what happens on the bottom part.

K

And this is what happens on the top yeah. That makes sense.

L

Yeah yeah yeah, I mean I drew it that way because of that on that one just to show.

L

Again, a variety of options there: okay, but you know other than that. I think.

K

These are incredibly well detailed, incredibly well scaled they're. You know.

K

The site placement is perfect, I've got you know, thank you and I like the.

B

Additions that the commission has added to it. Thank you.

D

So I think at this stage we kind of have a frankenstein, a house and maybe the.

D

Motion could clarify exactly which bits and pieces we're going to assemble on.

D

Our final products, because I'm kind of confused right now myself about what may.

D

Be the best thing to do is to ask the petitioner to incorporate the feedback.

D

He's heard tonight and come back to us with two plans that 800% is going to use.

L

We're open, I think, we've narrowed down greatly with.

L

The two images of the 10th 2009 in 2017 and then we could make a couple of.

L

Modifications the double upper floor window to stack would be appropriate for.

L

This house and it's going to interfere with the gable on the other house.

L

So we need to, we need to recognize that and beyond that we can alter the trim.

L

Above the water table, line at the upper two-thirds and bring it down to a four.

L

Inch, instead of a six inch well, it's just like where it's at the transition.

K

Bridge those are really the only two things in the fiberglass windows yeah.

L

And I think, there's three points and we're ready to go. Okay, we bring it back.

L

If we need to, but I don't, I think it's pretty straightforward, I'm sorry. I have.

L

Had a lot of trouble with split face, it holds so much water because the block.

L

Has been split open that we would rather paint the foundation than useful face.

L

Can you kid like, I don't think you can, but you can't yes.

C

Yeah mr. bhalla motion carries.

L

Connor, I will save you and mel with those three points just for the record.

L

Thank you for me understand adelaide yeah from us.

D

Okay, thank you guys 642 north madison street. All right this is the kiln.

D

Building the adaptive reuse project for the kiln that the hpc did a courtesy.

D

Review for at the last meeting just a quick overview, the kiln building is.

D

Located in the shower brothers, furniture factory, historic district, the adaptive.

D

Reuse of this building is part of a larger initiative. That's been going on for decades to utilize historic showers campus to contribute to the success of.

D

The city's proposed trades district, the adaptive reuse of this kiln, is to.

D

Convert it to office / commercial space, there's gonna, be a conversion of the.

D

Original bay openings into glass framed entrances, approximately two storey.

D

Rooftop addition, materials were looking at luna, macleod, pillo lifestyle window.

D

Standing seam metal, siding flush panel, metal, siding with soffit material and.

D

Some reuse, original kiln brick, so staff recommendation is to defer to the hpc.

D

With the following comments, staff identifies the following character:.

D

Defining features should be preserved, use of red brick, five bay's on the on.

D

The west elevation, the outline of the rectangular recessed walls that you can.

D

See feature plasters in between them and with some corbelling here, so those are.

D

Really that if there is character defining features, those are it for the.

D

Kiln building and those features should be maintained and preserved. Staff finds.

D

That the size and the massing of the rooftop addition overwhelms the kilns.

D

Proportions and profile and that rooftop additions are generally not advisable.

D

For historic one-story structures, especially when the addition adds more.

D

Than a story in height steph finds that the above-mentioned.

D

Issues are somewhat mitigated by the fact that the petitioner has set back.

D

The additional levels from the primary elevation that kaelin helps soften that.

D

Visual impact of the rooftop addition, the kilns roof, is not a character.

D

Defining feature so a rooftop addition will not result in the loss of such a.

D

Feature the recognition- and this is important- that any adaptive, reuse.

D

Project of this building that seeks to utilize the building for commercial.

D

Office space is going to man some severe alterations because the kiln was.

D

Originally constructed to dry, lumber or not house a modern workforce, so.

D

Ultimately, staff finds after review the historic district design guidelines.

D

Which I included in your packet, I hope you read and federal preservation.

D

Literature, the design as proposed would not be approved. So if this was a seeking.

D

Federal rehabilitation, tax credits that, with the current design, it's not going.

D

To get that, however, staff also recognizes that the adaptive reuse of.

D

The kiln is a unique and very difficult challenge because of the building's.

D

Design its limited size that any reuse of this building to meet modern.

D

Commercial needs will require creative solutions that inevitably are going to.

D

Come at the expense of some of its historic materials features and form so.

D

Southwood hoped that the commission keeps an open mind with some of these.

D

Changes that we're seeing so the the petitioner had a courtesy review. He took.

D

Some of your comments: you can see that they've lessened the overhang of this.

D

Top here he's cleaned up, so we're taking a tour here. Let's start on the southwest.

D

So you're walking along madison, you see it here now we see just the west.

D

Elevation now we're seeing the north elevation. So if you're driving down 11.

D

This is what you're going to see now we're going to see the northeast.

D

Elevation, so you can see, he's now changed the design to.

D

To continue this feature of kind of the brick bays to continue around it and use.

D

Of that red brick, which I think is a great great change as well as kind of.

D

Cleaned up some of the elements here that the hpc found quite troubling last.

D

Time- and this is maybe some proposed artwork, showing the outline of the.

D

Historic showers campus and where the kiln fits in regards to all of that.

D

Which, I think is a really nice touch because it tells the story. I hope the.

D

Showers campus- and here we go- this is from the alley, so south east elevation.

D

Of it and that's a site plan, so staff would defer to hpc, doesn't have an.

D

Official recommendation, sustainable development and it's been our department.

R

That's driving the trades district project forward as much as we can like.

R

What I can tell you is, as you know, this is a critical building in a twenty five.

R

Year, project and we are treading very lightly in terms of who we want to work.

R

With on each of these buildings that are being converted, so the mill we did.

R

Ourselves with, obviously we didn't design it, but I mean that was a project that the city drove, and you know we were very careful there. I think it turned out.

R

Really great we're cognizant of the proximity of the kiln to the mill. What.

R

We like about what's being proposed is the the use of it is very complementary.

R

To the mill one of the challenges in the mill is that there's, you know very.

R

There's a lot of competition for the office spaces and so part of. What's.

R

Gonna happen next door here and given its proximity is particularly well-suited, for is some expansion of the companies that are inside offices that.

R

That really should be moving on and those companies can find a place right.

R

Next door and take full advantage of the programming and vice versa. Obviously one.

R

Of the bays as being proposed is, is a coffee shop. So that's great for folks.

R

Who work in the mill? But you know the the.

R

This building the mill, the administration building, there's the.

R

Current iu press building, which we're looking at closely right now, this.

R

Particular kiln project. You know the administration's very conscious of how.

R

Historic preservation should contribute to ongoing vitality in a community and.

R

Economic well-being. We were pleased that the last time we were here, it's it felt.

R

Like people generally positive and that that the design has been adapted based.

R

On the feedback that came in last time, so I think those were really great.

R

Improvements- and we really appreciate you- know your your involvement and.

R

Understanding and in tackling this building, as connor said, it was never.

R

Intended to have people in it, so so for it to have people in it in itself as an.

R

Achievement and then hopefully we do it in a way. That's very elegant and and and.

R

Helps the district overall evolve the way we hope it will. So I think it's a.

R

For your time,.

S

I don't think duncan was here last time, maybe a couple others just some of the.

S

Designers, here that we're making to respect the traditional or the historic.

S

Fabric, while also bringing in the newer styles, so the openings on the upper two.

S

Levels are mirrors of the pallister's down below and create voids, so there is.

S

A repetition of that modularity of the first story- that's carried through to.

S

The upper levels on the hourly side- I think that was one of the largest areas.

S

Of concern and the courtesy review we actually through a conversation with.

S

Conor and thinking about what we wanted to do with the masonry that lower levels.

S

We wrapped it around. It made sense to replicate that historic detailing and.

S

Material, even though there's a suggestion that you should differentiate.

S

I think it's really hard to abide by heart set rules. Sometimes you need to be.

S

A little bit agile, so in this case it seemed to make sense to bring in that.

S

Historic detailing, because it's at that lower level- and there was a concern.

S

About the connection between the front of the building and the alley side of.

S

The building, so that was that was our attempt there. There was this idea of.

S

What to do with a stair tower- and I mentioned to conor that hey maybe we.

S

Could really tell that story, as the mayor suggested in the courtesy review.

S

Of the showers, complex and so connor, provided that 1927 sanborn maps, which is.

S

Really interesting have a look if you get a chance in the way that everything.

S

Was organized the up in the very very top right corner you can actually.

S

A little white speck that was a sawmill up there and it was all log storage.

S

Between the sawmill and the kill and the kiln highlighted in red and then the.

S

Historic structures that had been demolished and the ones that remain are.

S

All represented there from 1927 so and it's I know it's for me. It's an.

S

Attractive piece as well and breaks up that larger stair tower so curious to.

S

Hear the comments and leads for any questions, questions is there any more.

B

Additional comments, the only thing I'm saying is- I didn't get to come here last.

T

Time- and I just just want to comment that for us- it's just a really important.

T

To preserve that entire story- and I think that's why we wanted this building.

T

In particular, the story lines up so well with what we're trying to do. The.

T

Startups in the middle, the idea, I tell that all the time that you know what was.

T

Right here and then it was cut down and it was taken to that story. Is the.

T

Driving factor of excitement for us of the traits that's great, and so I think.

T

This is depressed to maintain a story. Thank.

B

You all right jeff questions chris yeah. I wonder how the longevity of that clear.

E

Railing will play out, you know and how it'll actually look day to day when it's.

E

Got pigeon droppings on it or whatever you know, and I wonder what what the.

E

Thinking is of not using a more industrial rail at that upper level. Well,.

S

We wanted something, it was somewhat transparent if you haven't seen the.

S

Alexander in indianapolis I'd recommend it. It was actually one of the.

S

Inspirations and they have a rooftop deck with a glass rail, and then it.

S

Actually has sort of would be on the deck, and it's very nice and really.

S

Elegant so I trust I trust these guys to keep a clean ship. You know you know the.

S

Right adjacent to the roof, deck area is going to be in the conference room.

S

Ruth area is going to be an event space that supports both the male and the kill.

S

Yeah and you know- and maybe it gets a little more panelized, I'm sure the.

S

Killin collective would be happy with an l rail as well one way or another should.

S

Be in keeping with the language I think, of the vertical metal siding the clear.

E

Railing isn't really in any language that is anywhere else on the building in.

E

My in my house, I mean if we broke it up into panels, a.

S

Little bit more and treated it more like a fenestration rather than just solid.

S

Glass, I think that would help, but we're flexible.

S

Okay, thanks jay.

G

No questions, don't.

J

M

Like I totally get how challenging this is, I've been thinking about this for.

M

About thirty years I probably walked ten different architecture teams through.

M

This one time or another, are you on the? Are you raising the floor in the main.

M

Kiln to get it up to degrade yeah they're the floor. Is there a variety in.

S

Different levels, we need to match the powerhouse in the back to the front and.

S

Way it works out is middle. Two bay's have higher floors than the adjacent.

S

Base you're familiar with the building and then a few of the base, don't have any floors at all really so it works out that we're able to level all the floors.

S

Really close to what the middle two bays are, and now we have to take out the.

S

Floor and utility corridor between the powerhouse and the kilns and lower that.

S

In order to make that happen, I'm just curious about how these.

M

Storefronts enter into a subterranean space as you go down, you know you don't.

S

Go down we're gonna, go up, we'll be up about a foot from the existing center.

S

Our filling yeah we're gonna fill in the everything.

S

I mean in their current building it's well below oh yeah. Some of them were.

S

Four feet down, you know built up on false floors. A few of them, you know, are.

S

Just come in and we'll ramp down, but we really need to get them all the.

S

Same level, better accessibility, so I think you end up coming up about a foot.

S

From the turf, so it's not going to be subterranean okay, except for the power.

S

House is somewhat subterranean, but we're digging that out putting in stairs and a.

S

Ramp for accessibility, so normally I don't even know where I sorta don't know.

M

Where to start- and I'm afraid this is gonna, take so long, but everybody's gonna.

M

Go to sleep but but normally, if you look at a historic building regardless of.

M

Your use or your hopes for the use you the most important thing in the.

M

Preservation from the preservation side of it, aside from the economic side of it.

M

And the city's well wishes, and we all want this to happen. Believe me, if you.

M

Try to read the building's intent that is met through its.

M

Architecture and then, when you, when you adaptively, reuse it or even preserve it,.

M

Or restore it recognizing the difference between those activities, you look to.

M

Accomplish a result that can be read as close as possible to the original intent.

M

Of the building so forget the addition for now, when you look at at this side of.

M

The building, which was closed wing doors that access kiln rooms- this looks more.

M

Like you know, I'm trying not to be mean-spirited, but it looks more like a.

M

Mall entrance than it does anything that was industrial, and I wonder if it.

M

Couldn't do something here I mean there are lots of examples of adaptive use of.

M

Fire stations- actually, the city garage over here in bloomington- has done a.

M

Really nice job putting entrances into garage door formations, in other words,.

M

They're reading the building that had big bus garage doors on it as a.

M

Bus station but they're using it says so many else so I'm I would like. I would.

M

Like it, if the part that is the original building were read and adapted so that.

M

People could understand its purpose, its original purpose than use and still.

M

Accommodate the kinds of things you need so as opposed to sort of storefront.

M

Configurations I now in the north end, you actually have where there wasn't any.

M

Penetration, interestingly, you've created a much more garage door like penetration.

M

One of them- I don't know if that actually goes up and down or not or.

M

Whether that's just a garden cafe right. Okay, so I mean that's a that's a better.

M

Presentation, I think that could be read the way that that the west elevation was.

M

Originally intended to be read, which was that these were places where you could.

M

Back up a truck and offload or in load lumber, so I'm not saying it can't have.

M

Doors and they should, and they shouldn't have glass, just don't think that the.

M

Fent the way it's fenestrated reads as as doors I you know, I don't think I've.

M

Ever seen anything other than what's there now, some of them are wood doors.

M

Clad in metal just metal doors, but we know we know.

M

That they were full openings that you know so so, and I don't know exactly what.

M

It means, as you go around the building I mean I, but I think it's possible to read.

M

And interpret the the original kiln building more as an industrial building.

M

Bennett than you are doing, let's make it, let's just say that that way, and and.

M

That the fenestration is is the main element that you have to deal with in.

M

Order to give us some idea that this was basically a bunch of garage bays now.

M

Whether that feels good to you for commercial intent or anything like that.

M

I don't know, but I think it would still work for the intention of the building.

M

And it just hasn't, it just hasn't been tried here yet so that that's something.

M

That I would suggest- and and the second thing is that when you normally the.

M

Normal sort of protocol, when you do an adaption of an industrial building, is.

M

That you try to stay in some form in industrial motif and and take for.

M

Instance, the entrance to this building on both sides, the one on the cook side.

M

And the one on this side, the very modern interpretations, but they they treat the.

M

Building with the kinds of materials that are of an industrial origin, and so.

M

Even though they are totally different and create entrances where there never.

M

Were any they, they read as industrial and ends and so and that's a commitment.

M

That those architects made to to this building that I think works pretty well.

M

And, and- and I'm not seeing that here like, I think this is more of an attempt.

M

To completely make it over, and what preservation is like to see is some.

M

Aspect of the original intent of the building incorporated into the.

M

And I'm not saying that's a simple thing to do, but I think if it's, if that's.

M

That's the kind of guidance I would if I were consulting on this, that's the kind.

M

Of guidance I would provide, and, and the second story from this side could be.

M

Interpreted as a kind of industrial appearance, but from the from the east.

M

Side, it looks more like a mid-century modern house, and that doesn't it doesn't.

M

Read to me, it reads to me that it's it's accomplishing what it wants to on the.

M

Inside but it's kind of ignoring the original building on the outside. I don't.

M

Mind the material, but I just find it a little bit too I'm like over articulated.

M

If there, if there's such a word, so it's it's for me, it's much more about.

M

Respecting the original building like you're down on the left side, I think it.

M

Does that pretty well, and- and I don't even mind the.

M

Penetrations on the north end, I think those are you know, I'd almost rather not.

M

See them, but I I understand they're there, the need for them and I think.

M

They're done better than the then the sort of then the west side. I think the.

M

West side is the one that needs to the most work yeah.

J

Yeah, I I appreciate what you're saying about the storefront on the west side. I.

S

Think there are opportunities to in fact you mentioned industrial motif. I get it.

S

I get a little bit excited about that. That's that's, that's pretty fun and I.

S

Can see how this is coming off is a little bit of a you know, a little bit of.

S

A mall right now, I think it reads a little bit better from a perspective. You.

S

Go to the perspective where we're that's fine, where we're introducing some.

S

Awnings again we're bringing in wood on the underside a native hardwood, so we're again respecting the story of the kiln.

S

Using native materials and giving it that warmth, so I think yeah be willing.

S

To look at the storefront on the first level now, as for the west side versus.

S

The alley side, I think it's a little bit of a trick. All right. Are you familiar.

S

With the hearst building in new york city, the hearst hours yeah on the.

H

Circumcircle done by foster yeah. Can you pull it up real fast, just google, it.

S

And I think it's hd a yeah. It sits on top of a historic structure right there.

S

The top right- and it sits on top of the historic structure and the power of that.

S

Upper level really kind of feeds off of that lower level. You know and two.

S

Completely different buildings, so in the top very much calls attention to itself.

S

As a piece of architecture, but it's still in harmony with and responds to.

S

The historic fabric of the street below you know in the district we have these.

S

Competing forces of a very low line, historic structure that were completely.

S

Changing to use and we're responding to you know the height of the surrounding.

S

Buildings, if you want to go to the elevation from the west side from afar.

S

Connor, that's it, but not it! Yes. When I took I don't know if I included, you want.

D

Out, okay: well, it shows the height of the three storeys being significantly lower.

S

The building's adjacent and the grass that we're looking at in front is going.

S

To be developed with contemporary buildings, most likely since it's a tech.

S

Center, so the east side of the building is a different building than the west.

S

Side of the building west side of the building in the north side of the building are responding to the building below we're repeating those patterns.

S

We're stepping the building back and allowing those historic facades to take.

S

Precedence, we have to add a stout stair tower on the east side, which is the.

S

Alley side, and but we don't want to be apologetic about it right. We want to.

S

Introduce some design, I, like modern architecture. I think this perspective.

S

Here is particularly attractive with the overhangs they're clean, simple lines.

S

That connect the front of the building all the way around to the back of the building. It's a little less disorganized, I think than it was when it came last.

S

Time and and then we have this opportunity to bring in a piece of art.

S

That tells the story the building. So I understand what you're saying duncan and I think we've all been thinking about the difference between the east side and.

S

The west side, but personally I like that it's a different building on.

S

On the other side than it is on the website yeah, it is in reality a.

M

Different building I mean right now. If you just walk over there, look at it.

M

They're not the same building from each side yeah, and I don't have any objection.

M

To to taking each side sort of independently, I was actually trying to.

M

Suggest that that that the usual motive is to is to take the original and do the.

M

Best you can, with with with continuing to show the architectural intent of the.

M

Building, even as you adapt it and I get how tricky it is, so you can let the.

M

Building, tell you, or you can add things to it- that you interpret is telling the.

M

Story and- and I think the general rule is let the building tell you so when you.

M

Say you have awnings on them that have wood in them, and that tells that somehow.

M

It relates the fact that it was a kiln building, no, not really.

M

It's just it's just an idea about it, but if you let the building tell you what it.

M

Is you can still be successful and I think that's the real trick and I'm not it's not. You know I'm just sitting here as an.

M

Adviser to this to this group, because I've done a lot of buildings like this.

M

And I I know how what the requirements of preservation are. So so that's I think.

M

This side is the one that couldn't really be fixed. I think the other one is.

M

Better, I don't really like, what's on top very much because it doesn't speak to.

M

Industrial motif to me- and I think it could do that better and I'd in a row of.

M

Storefronts that just looks like something you drive up to tesla doesn't.

M

Adequately treat this building so, but I think it could be done there very.

M

Similarly, to the way you did it on the north end and I'd lose the awnings.

S

The west side of the building- I know I get it- preservation standards also.

S

Suggest that find you know new architectural elements that contribute.

S

To the sustainability of the building, our look on favorably yeah I took it is.

M

A very very explosive space, I'm already nervous the western sun yeah I mean.

M

There yeah, I think, that's a goal. Yeah I mean that's a goal that needs to be mad.

M

I'm just not sure that this meets it. I mean I, I see something more like a.

M

Clerestory over over them over the actual openings or something would maybe.

M

It's maybe their louvered, maybe they're a sun deflecting or absorbing glass.

M

Maybe it's something else that gets you the shade you need, but I don't know.

M

That's that's not what I'm here to decide really, but those are my comments.

B

Questions no questions, a couple of quick ones. If you would go to the east.

K

Perspective the elevation thing in the plan: there is this angled wall that.

K

Happens, I want to say that this is so much cleaner than the last time you saw.

K

It and I'm much happier with this, but what I'm wanting to figure out. It's like.

K

You look in the plan if you show me a plan of the ground floor. If you look.

K

Above you know, sort of halfway down the bad thing right. There.

K

Where's that elevation.

S

The new recite plan didn't get him food that.

S

Like that they become over to the one from the north, so there was a question.

S

About trying to highlight the entrance on the east side so part of highlighting.

S

The entrance has continued not very flying around pulling it up pulling a.

S

Little bit of a visual connection over to the entrance which duncan. Because we.

S

Had to lower everything on that first level, we have to bring the entrance down.

M

Into that area, so the roof comes out, provides a bit of a cover over the.

S

Entrance the kell placed right above the entrance, so the glass storefront on that.

S

Side that is perpendicular parallel square with the building, but there is.

S

The angled wall that connects between the stair tower and storefront so under.

K

Where it says to kill, that's a so that is the ankle pin and that allows for.

S

Just a little bit more room in the lobby space, it's very tight between the.

S

Building and the parking in the alley.

K

Kicking that out of that, it just gives a bit more room and also, if you'll notice,.

S

There's a pilaster on to the right of the window on the powerhouse warkworth.

S

According to the guidelines, we want to be able to take the entire addition off.

S

And have the original building still, and this accomplishes that to a large.

S

Degree we're bringing the walls the new walls into the pilasters, we're not.

S

Coming into the recessed areas, so that's another reason we think that out, but of.

S

Course we don't want to kick the entire stair tower around, so it seemed like a bit more of an elegant way to do it is to create a bit of including.

S

Accommodation corner, okay, so that's okay, so it looks like you've got a fairly.

K

Relative to the original building you've got about an 18-inch setback, all the way.

K

Around the from the top of the original building to the front face of the second.

K

Floor, the pilasters are actually 26 inches thick. It was like 28, so it's a.

K

Little over 2 foot, then yeah.

S

Got you and then would you show me the west halation there you go and so so you.

K

Got from the ground to the second: it's like the 28th and then it looks like if.

K

That's 28, then it's about four feet from two to three: okay, those are okay. Thank.

S

You and then one other question: would you describe the composition of those.

K

Awnings that come out of the top, the storefront you've got the hardwood on the bottom yeah hardwood on the bottom. There would.

S

Be steel awnings internally supported, so we would not be making any connection to.

S

The historic brick, which is also one of the guidelines.

S

So be a black steel structure with women.

S

When they're slipping back towards the building, I fell in with a scupper there.

S

Then go off to either side and they get downspouts.

K

And their pickup sort of been in line with the storefront kind of thing or.

S

That's an element it's not shown because, okay, thanks.

S

That's all again, but it will be obviously subterranean. Subsurface change.

S

Less water coming off of the top of the first level, but we will have a lot of.

S

Water coming off of the roof deck area being the third floor and we're gonna.

S

Have to bring that down somewhere. I.

S

Don't see down spells at every awning, but we are gonna have to have downspouts.

S

From buildings, so we might have equipment out of the gutter that runs.

S

Between the awnings in the building and everything's strange in the northwest.

S

Corner right and then it's where the glass railing ends is that's where the.

K

Occupiable portion of the third floor ends absolutely thank you. I don't have.

B

Any questions just move to comments.

B

Articulated something that I couldn't come up with when I first look at this.

F

Plan and it's my reaction to the loss of the building and what he was saying.

F

About how the storefront- and I think, maybe that's what I'm reacting to I'm.

F

Okay with the addition and I'm okay with most of our mccoy okay with the east.

F

Side but the vernacular, the the feeling of that industrial part of this side of.

F

The building is completely lost with that storefront. So that's you know.

F

That's how I feel about it- and you know, was informed by what duncan said about.

F

That stuff, I think that there is a better way to make this feel like it was.

F

The kill and not lose. You know that feeling of that first floor, especially.

F

On this very important facade.

E

Yeah, I see the five days, maybe there's something that can be done. That would.

E

Both deal with the light and give a historical reference, you know, I I really.

E

Think the glass rail calls too much attention to itself and that there's.

E

Industrial rail all over and if it just humbly, had an industrial rail up there.

E

Would still function beautifully? You know just integrate a little better with.

E

Not only the building but the sight, I think it wants to show off a little bit.

E

And I think it did two tracks by its attraction said: that's what catches my.

E

Eye I'm kind of looking over duncan so over here. That's my! If you look at the.

S

And these aren't up there. But if you look at the sawtooth of the middle, those.

S

Are glass panels and and that's right, adjacent to where those that glass.

S

Railing would be so maybe if we could start to pick up some of that similar.

S

Proportioning and repetition of elements- I don't want to get into anything too.

S

Ornate, I think industrial industrial would be good.

S

You know what I wanted to be too heavy.

B

G

Yeah, I want to say how much more I, like the other side of the building, then way.

G

It was before, I think, that's a really nice much better treatment.

G

I love the the brick part in the bottom, very well on the other side and even the.

G

North side, I really, I think, that's nice.

G

Those almost look like filled in bates, so you've got the brick kind of inset.

G

And then coming down and I'm wondering if you could, you know maybe pick.

G

Something up like that, and it also would help you with that west side. Exposure.

G

Thing well see how that's see it looks like. Basically that looks like it used.

G

To be bigger and you've made it smaller and that's pretty common on old.

G

Industrial buildings, you know you kind of fill it in with other brick. Oh, are.

G

You fill it in with this, where you fill it in with that, it doesn't have to look because it shouldn't, but not expressing myself very well, but you know you can.

G

Play with it over there and it will look less like a polish, our storefront ish.

G

Because they're not really storefronts, there.

G

Right, I mean soma are in yeah.

J

And, and also I, the tilt up, the awning is cool, but you know if the purpose is for.

G

Shade something it up, you're going to get less. So I understand you want to see.

T

But keeping it at least that was the first thing that it's no windows, you.

T

Know and so trying to get as much mom was it all boarded up right now. Yes, it.

G

Would be absolutely yeah, I think I think that it all been open. They'd all been.

G

Going, oh, my gosh, that's so exposed if all those doors hadn't been on there so.

G

You know, I think, basically, you have glass wall right now, okay, well, that was.

G

My only comment.

S

I think what thinkin is suggesting is that, instead of having the traditional.

S

Storefront, we just maybe rethink proportions of elements. In a way I mean.

S

It could be that maybe we're just dealing with straight vertical elements.

S

We don't have the horizontal lines in there with the panels below and you know.

S

Windows have top, and maybe the doors are a little bit taller reworking the.

S

Proportions to give it a little bit more of an industrial motif rather than.

S

Looking like more of a traditional storefront right mike right yeah, I mean.

M

I think that that's part of it, I I don't think we're talking. What I'm saying is. I.

S

Don't think we're talking about filling in with brick and make it not or okay. I.

S

Think it's just a matter of reworking that module. I don't know, I don't think.

S

We're differentiating between each module because traditionally, those mod.

S

Those modules were not differentiated right, they were very much doing the same.

S

To see, as far as we know so, coming up with a treatment that is their.

S

Storefront and it has a bit more of an industrial motif, but not putting in.

S

Brick, not reducing the amount of glass. I would argue that we still need to.

S

Provide shade, you know, I think, that's no element that I'd really prefer not to.

S

Take out, and one of the reasons why we had the larger overhangs up high was to provide that shade to the west side as well.

B

So I'm looking at this particular picture here, if the you can see of the.

M

West side and and it and and we don't probably know at least in the original.

M

Configuration how these openings were treated. We just know that they were.

M

Openings and and the indication for that is that is that ten or twelve inch steel.

M

Riveted header: well, that's a real industrial detail, but I'm not catching.

M

At all- and I don't know why that has to.

M

Disappear yeah, I'm not seeing that at all you've, either taken it out or.

M

Covered it up or, and that's a really critical architectural aspect of this.

M

Industrial building and it's defining those openings and why that's gone? I.

M

That's, I don't think you can justify that now. Maybe it's you don't care.

M

Because you put that on in there, but I think that's a really critical piece of.

M

Architecture that has to stay and the and the openings are constructed under.

M

That original header, and by the way, by the way the hearst building was never.

M

Completed on top, which is the rationale for foster's design.

S

Wasn't really an horizontal, I wasn't broken up horizontally. You know, I think.

S

Maybe more of a vertical treatment would be more property agreement that right.

M

Yeah, I'm just saying that's one piece of historic fabric. You have there that that.

M

Steel header that defines that that defines that space and that's that's.

M

Historic fabric there it is and you're not exploiting it. I mean you think of.

M

All the storefronts restored storefronts that exploit that paint. The rivets.

M

Different colors and blah blah blah and you you've basically gotten rid of it.

M

And that if you just took out all that sheet metal and looked at the bare-bones.

M

Structure there, I don't think would be that hard to design an opening that told.

M

Us all that those were doors yeah and that's why matt, when I first started, is.

M

Like you have to look at the building and look at it and look at it and look.

M

At it and look at what's left, not you know not. How can I make this look like I.

M

Want it to look but look at look at how it wants to look and then go, and I think.

M

I don't think that's that complicated a design problem on that side of the.

M

Building jenny you've said some good things about it too and they're not.

M

Entrances per se for your purposes, so how they're? How they're fittest rated.

M

Isn't isn't as critical? You know like it would be in a mall where they are.

M

S

But but you want to treat them all the same and I like the header. I think we.

S

Can still do an awning and respect the header, I know how it is when you get on.

M

To something that you really like, it's really hard to, let go of it, but I don't.

M

Think it works so yeah I mean, I think there is evidence there that will help.

M

Take it to take that that facade differently and I haven't figured out.

M

What I think about the episode, I just think the upstairs looks too much like.

M

An apartment building, yeah first I'd, say you did a great job.

N

Responding to our comments from the meeting couple of weeks ago, I mean I see.

N

A lot of changes, I think I can agree with a lot of the comments- have been.

N

Made about the east side of the building, that's a pretty dramatic change. I'm.

N

Still not a fan of the glass on the stair tower the vertical, and I know it's.

N

Vertical circulation- and I know some people like that last time- I you know it.

N

Still seems like to me, it just seems the one thing out of place it almost in a.

N

Way, it almost draws my eye to that and I, but I like what you've done with the.

N

Entry with the kiln and the the roof there and the glass separation, so I.

N

Don't know what that detail on the stair has completely been worked out.

N

I, like the bays I like the brick, I think duncan hit it on the head and go.

N

Back to the west side, which seems to be the slice of pie of the day here, we keep.

N

Talking about and coming back to so to speak, you know, I thought I've thought.

N

About a couple of things, I didn't, I didn't really like the glass railing.

N

Early on and I can see what everybody's kind of fighting with and, of course in.

N

These renderings, it always makes it stand out way more because it's got a sheen to it. Part of what I wondered is is that could you do.

N

A more verticals there that almost either line up with the pilasters you.

N

Know I know you've got the black railing around and I've gone back and forth boy.

N

Would that be too heavy up there? You know I like, what's that more cable, yeah.

N

Or yeah you know, I love the cable reel idea. I like what duncan hit on the head.

N

To me was be more industrial. I think you've picked up on that. So part of me.

N

Is looking at this going, do you can you do something there that the joints and.

N

The glass and I think, starting to talk about how the glass of the clerestory is.

N

Like on the mill and this building are and they're segmented, so I think there's.

N

Nothing wrong with that. I I think that the main thing for me is yes, these bays.

N

One once duncan said it: I have not left that thought and that is, it just looks.

N

Like a commercial strip mall a retail center with with the infill glass, you.

N

Know can you you've got to keep the opening? I love the the duncan caught the steel headers over these and I think you've.

N

Got room to, I still think you've got room to work. Your your canopy and I.

N

Think duncan the canopy you did the building the that my office used to be.

N

In it that the frosted foods building and there was kind of an open canopy, but.

N

There was something some kind of something that was done to kind of frame.

N

That west side- and it just was like a sea channel and it was really kind of.

N

Neat, he was a ghost yeah yeah exactly and I know I know what.

N

You need something here, but I think there's something you could do that's more industrial than what you've got. I don't need to see the bottom of these.

N

Harkening back to wood and kiln was here, I think, that's, I think, duncan's right. I.

N

Think that's too much of a stretch, but I would like to see something more.

N

Industrial and it could be a canopy you either it's sea channels or something.

N

This picture should this renderings show, so it looks like you've got. What is that.

N

A metal then in the bottom of the storefronts, I'm looking at one of the views, makes it look like all glass and then this one.

N

Makes it look like yeah that almost made me think you had all glass in the.

N

Opening and I had made the note that maybe something industrial along that.

N

Base and you know so- you bring the size of that glass in a little bit, not a lot.

N

Because I know, as you said, it's the only windows to these spaces and we need to.

N

Take advantage of it, but I think there's something here: you.

N

Could do and you you know either the the grid changes to more an industrial type.

N

Of storefront grid itself, I, like the overhead door on the north.

N

Side, I I think that to me that that reads as industrial that reminds me of.

N

The doors they've used on the fire stations, where they've rehabbed, something that was historical and how do you carry that over and still get a door.

N

Opening, and maybe for me, is the maybe the doors don't have you know. I can't.

N

Tell if I'm bothered, because the doors are symmetrical or I know the bays need.

N

To be, but do the doors need to stay off to one side in each opening and let the.

N

Grid of the opening be more dramatic than the double door. Opening that you.

N

Have I don't know, yeah yeah yeah the grid being more dominant than the day.

N

Cuz right now that that door is very old now I know- and you talked about duncan.

N

And duncan's our advisor, and so you know, while he's a non-voting member, he wasn't.

N

At the last meeting- and he always brings up things- that those are how things like.

N

Oh yeah, okay, you know, I I think I think you're really close with some things. I.

N

Think this is the facade now that that could use the work. I'm not bothered by.

N

The I mean you to make this work. I know we've got to do the additions and I, like.

N

The different material I like what you did with to minimize the roof. I think.

N

Between the railing and between the the openings and the industrial nature, I.

N

Think you're pretty darn close.

N

Yeah, that's all I've got sam um yeah. I just want to reiterate what a lot of my.

K

Fellow commissioners and said this is come a long way since the last time I.

K

Really appreciate you modifying the east elevation so much. It was kind of my last.

K

Time around and it's super clean now comparatively I like that you've cleaned.

K

Up the roof you've got rid of that. I don't like that. You've got rid of the.

K

Solar panels, but at least it's not yeah, it's not you know it's not it's not the.

K

Caricature it was, but I think I will again reiterate what duncan said and.

K

That this is an industrial building and.

K

What I said the last time around was like that the fenestration on the second.

K

And third floors feels a lot like it's a sort of 1970s residential scale windows.

K

Regular window is kind of thing, but you look at factory buildings of this era.

K

And you know in the next hundred years you have these big punched openings yeah.

M

My factory yeah, these windows are human scaled openings. I think that holds for.

K

Both the doors on the lower end and all the fenestration on the upper end, I.

K

Appreciate that you're sort of reversing this, you know you have where the the.

K

Pilasters are you have this void and that's fun, however, the every other.

K

Window up there, that's a residential scaled window and the doors on the.

K

Ground-Floor or residential scaled doors, you know when you go into a factory.

K

Everything they don't care, how big people are because they want to get.

K

Trucks to they want to get equipment through. This was this was a piece of.

K

Architecture that was built to bring in huge law.

K

That sort of thing and if you can recollect that and simply ignore the.

K

Human scale for a little bit, you know beefed it up, make it vertical make it.

K

Wider and punch it punch up this game of both your entries and your fenestration.

K

All the way up, I think it would help you a lot, because you know the articulation.

K

On the on the uh it's too fine, and I think what I liked about what happened.

K

Between this version and the last version, especially on the east elevation.

K

Is that there's a clarity to that? It's cleaned up a whole lot and if you can do.

K

That with the fenestration that I think would improve this project, enormous lee.

K

You know I you know, I the glass, it reads strongly, but if you pull everything out.

K

And industrialize everything I think it would be a lot of fun. No, I like to fool.

K

Around in hardware stores- and you know, my brother runs a fox company and my dad.

K

Did when I was little and we would ride on the conveyer belts with an off shift.

K

It was a box company, so we tried the boxes and it's fantastic. I mean it's.

K

Like such a different, it's a foreign territory, but if you can get yourself in.

K

That space and get your articulations not so fine-grained, I think it would.

K

Help a lot, I'm gonna harp again on the thing that I hoped again.

K

Which is the setbacks on the north elevation? You've got the 24 inch and.

K

Then you've got the 48 inch and I neither want to see big or nothing.

K

Because it feels again it's another fine grain thing and when you're making an.

K

Industrial building, you know they they put like a 50,000 square foot building.

K

And they make a box, and this is so articulated. I would like to be a little.

K

More brutal, but I don't like, I think there needs to be a setback between the.

S

Brick and the second floor- oh yeah, I'm not doing that! I'm saying between the.

K

Second and the third floor, either make it big or don't make it at all, and we.

S

Need and we don't have a setback, there is no setback on the alley side. We.

S

Obviously need one on the west side, the planning commission, you know they have.

S

The setback requirement, but the setback requirement really is about buildings.

S

Being up against the sidewalk and allowing some space to the street here.

S

Or far enough off the street that I think you've done a nice job, I mean it's.

K

A big building compared to the mill building and compared to what's there.

K

Already and you're trying to mitigate that. It's still big, but you know you've.

K

Got some constraints that you're working with in terms of economic feasibility.

K

And that's, but I appreciate it: the plate heights.

K

Are relatively low yeah, it's tight! It's a tight building, yet we're trying not to.

S

Push it up. No, I think that's great yeah and you've moved everything to the.

K

North to keep it away from the mill zone tabs, which is great yeah, so this is kind.

K

Of in a way like a little bit more but you don't have to like it, but it's far.

K

Enough away that you don't have to so, if you want a little extra square footage there, I wouldn't complain. Would you go to the sort of that one? Yes, that one and.

K

Then the only other thing is, I'm still a little like the the where the new stuff.

K

Meets the old stuff and it's tricky the compatible but differentiated like.

K

You've got the existing building and boom. You have this board-and-batten.

K

Metal stuff just runs all the way down the side. I don't know how do you.

K

Recognize that you've got this little aspossible stuff in the new stuff, which.

K

I think is, I was thinking about you know. I turn that corner and you know it's.

S

Lined up on the pilots turn oh yeah, so we're respecting the.

S

I didn't run the brake, you know the existing brake. The new brake is pulled.

S

Away from the existing brake yeah, and I also appreciate that you've reduced the.

K

Pallet of materials- and I think that's much cleaner, that's much better!.

K

And I like the graphic to want to put a window in there. But it's under sterile.

S

And it's under a stairway, yeah yeah. I think that would be a sweet spot for a.

H

Window, well, I mean maybe the walk-in fridge and I think that's a lot better.

K

Hidden this time around yeah, I mean for something that's supposed to be like at.

K

The entry where you're coming back into the power building, it's it's a lot.

K

Cleaner and it's a lot more like okay, this is where you go, so I really.

H

Appreciate that I forgot one question: is there gonna be the kennel not on the.

G

Other side there gonna be a sign on the other side that says the kill, yeah we're.

K

Talking can you go around the respect perspective you, my my preference, would.

S

Be a pedestrian scale sign that is associated with either the awning or the.

S

Hi lester, that is kind of like a flag sign, smaller flags time that identifies.

S

The space the be interchangeable if the business is.

S

Changed, I don't know that there's a good spot here for larger. I think the corner.

S

Is going to be a nice place to identify the building both corners, the corner of.

S

Madison 11 and the corner of the alley we go back out. You know you've got the.

G

Other building- and it says if you back out connor upon a real picture, yeah the.

S

Bill was like no, no. I was like there. It is right on the foot the bill. Well, if we.

S

If we, if we change the way, we're trading the awning and we dude, that was more of.

S

A c channel around front we would have, I think, the ability to do signage on that.

S

C channel that would be sort of things, keeping with the language of the campus.

G

Did I think people approaching from this side? You know you go. Oh, you know we're.

G

In the mill they won't be approaching from some of will be from the alley side.

G

But like I said it could be dust rios drill, art or it could be almost anything.

G

I like that in duster still hard. I don't have any comments. I think that.

B

We have to, I think we should consider, is letting lucas go back with our.

B

Suggestions and maybe coming back to our next meeting with revisions, so the hpc.

D

Essentially, has until march 20th to deny or approve this, so the turnaround for.

D

You would be instead of giving it to me tomorrow to be on the next meeting. We.

D

Can work out a similar arrangement like last time, maybe late next week or.

D

Something do we need to make a motion to deny you continued motion.

N

Yes, yeah I'll make a motion to continue. Coa 20-13 2 will be on march 12th. Yes, we.

B

Want to demolition delay. Okay, all right. We had demolition delay, 19-25, 414, east.

B

9Th street is there a petitioner here this evening? Ok, full demolition need. I.

D

Say more we've seen this three or four times.

D

Already we, I think we continue to this meeting as a statement.

D

I thought we ask that you write a statement or send a statement to.

G

Couldn't we couldn't you put an addition on it? I think.

J

Yeah, so I discovered the tuesday of this week that a client that I have that this.

N

Is his building, and so I was like: oh wait, let's talk you know, and so I got.

N

Ahold of connor connor and I talked the other day- an email back and forth and.

N

Then I called and spoke to my client. I think he has a representative here and.

N

You know basically, and and some of the discussion was that that this is he.

N

Looked at the idea of an addition, but because this is so small and the.

N

Addition needs to be, and again this is not something I'm I'm drawing or working.

N

On this was a complete accident to come across it, but that the the addition and.

N

This building would need to bring somewhere between eight and ten bedrooms.

N

And you're you're not going to get that and and chris had brought this up last.

N

Year in the discussions of the new you do, this is one of those buildings that.

N

You know the you do. The the the new one that'll come out will allow a multi you.

N

Know higher density type of structure and really that's kind of the plan for.

N

This site and we're kind of kind of caught in a hot rock and a hard place. He.

N

Looked at the idea that yeah that you know, could we do something. You know what.

N

Can we do to save this this building and what kind of addition would it take and.

N

This is kind of what came up, and this is really kind of where it's heading. I.

N

Believe from the new you do as far as you know,.

G

So they can go to three stories not to exceed 40 feet, so I think basically he's.

D

Not interested in addition, as that correct, oh, he was interested in addition.

J

But we but didn't feel you were going to get the the number of bedrooms you're.

N

Not gonna get the three story maths out of this, I mean you know. This thing has.

N

What 3 bedrooms in it, maybe maybe and you're, certainly not gonna, do an.

N

Addition that has five- I could do one that has four anything and yeah, and you.

N

Might get that and so, so I guess what I would like to add to this is: is it you.

N

Know it's, I don't think it. You know I've kind of got my hands involved in it as.

N

Far as that we say: hey look, can we look at some stuff here and I think I mean.

N

Are you here, so I don't think it's completely out of the round that we have.

N

Quit looking for a solution here, we just at this point- I mean we're kind of up.

N

Like us as a you know, we've either got a designator, it gets it gets, but I would.

N

Just say I think, there's an earnest. The discussion came out that well, how do we.

N

Do that what do we look at, and so we didn't get any? You know this just.

N

Happened tuesday, you know my suggestion, my thought is well, you know. Maybe I pull.

N

Up a gis site plane and look and say boy: what can we? What can we get on here and.

N

If we can get something on here, let's go we'll, go back and say: hey we're, because.

N

It was brought up by by my client. Is you know we if we got the blessing of this.

N

Board to do something: cuz, we're gonna, save what we can here. We still have to.

N

Go before you know, we still have to get approval.

N

The planning department- and you know, with this with this board- go to bat with.

N

Us to help us come up with something I I don't know that the new you do has a way.

N

For a waiver or variance on something so so I don't know you know at this point.

N

If we do nothing today, we either have to designate or we have to, or this gets.

N

Released but I guess my thought is in talking to them if it gets released. I.

N

Don't think he's just going to go out tomorrow and there's going to be equipment, on-site tearing it down.

E

Smaller than they want what kind of zoning problems you just said, that's a.

K

Developer point of view: that's not necessarily a point of view, but it would.

E

Have to go through planning if we so that there's there's nothing that would.

E

Restrict them from building smaller. No, no, but I haven't had a client that comes.

N

To me, either on any project that ever says spend all my money and take all the.

N

Time you want to take either I mean none of them would come and say: let's do something smaller for the most part, yeah yeah. I guess I don't know enough of the.

N

Complete goals on this other than when it came up with with the discussion with.

N

Conor and I and the new you do, and what that's allowed to be here now, is that.

N

Yeah, how do you, how do you- and that would be what I would try to look at- is.

N

And, and even with this, what I'm saying is, I would look to this group even and.

N

Say: hey? How do we come up with something that gets pretty darn close to what he.

N

Expects out of here and maybe is a savings of money of tearing this down.

N

And building set back to set back because I'm not I haven't even looked at.

N

The site, yet I've had the time to even say, here's what the setbacks are he might and if we could yeah that's right. So if there's a bz a.

N

That's a appeal on maybe enlarging the setback to allow us to keep this.

N

Building and do an addition that might be the process, but I guess so that so.

N

Part of me is saying, look you we don't get much say today. I mean that's what we.

N

We didn't have much say two weeks ago, but there's some new information to.

N

Light when I found out that who is my client on another project to say, hey can.

N

We can't, I think the commission would work with you on this on an addition.

N

Because that's the feeling that I think that we got when we discussed this two.

N

Weeks ago, and so I think, there's enough there to be able to say would we would.

N

We work with him. I I think if he walks out of here of the demo permit like I.

N

Said it's not getting torn down, I want to it could but there's yeah I mean I'm.

N

Not gonna, I'm not saying yeah, it's it's 99% of won't! I'm saying if there's.

N

There's probably still ninety percent it will but there's there's some discussion.

N

And chance that something could happen, and part of that might involve this.

N

Group even going to the bca to say we like this idea that he's brought back to.

N

Us now, but it's gonna require this. You you have our support and I think that's.

N

What I would like to be able to take to him and say yeah, I understand that, but.

N

I'm not gonna be presumptuous enough to say sure they will. You know I just know.

N

How the last meeting, I think, when the meeting ended, even or at the end of the.

N

Meeting under discussion, we were just talking about wow boy. We can't we what.

N

Can we do you know, what can we do to save this? What kind of addition, what.

N

Would this board do and that's when I found out? Oh my gosh wait a minute.

N

You're you have this building. Let me tell you what the commission said and.

N

Let's see what we can do right. Well, it's a precedent-setting building in this new.

E

You do so it might be interesting. The math is a little different if you're not.

E

Going to go for 10 bedrooms, but you're spending ax that still could.

E

The math can still work. That's right, I just don't know the math. I don't know.

E

The styling and I haven't applied the new you do to it. Yeah right. You can.

E

Spend less and give them less that's right now the percentages were maybe I.

E

Wanted to just bring that up because, like I said, I got a hold of connor as.

N

Quickly, as I could.

P

Provision that, with the owners agreement, we can continue it with the owner, be.

M

Willing to would be willing to hold off on a demolition delay application until.

K

Such time as they figured out whether or not a man that question okay and we can.

O

Move we are open to moving forward and trying to find a way to incorporate this.

O

But the decision today is we'd like to know where we're going.

O

Claire, it's a good thing. Well, I'm hearing two things now, I'm hearing that.

M

You're not in a hurry and now you're saying you want a decision. So if we give.

M

You the decision that you want, you could tear it down tomorrow and we don't have.

M

Any recourse, if we find a way to continue, then we're all still in the.

M

Game so we're trying to do our best to save.

M

This building, if there's pus, if there's a possible way to do it, to satisfy what.

M

What the owner needs to accomplish, I guess you could say, but once we pass off.

M

On demolition, it's a done deal mm-hmm and the other alternative for us.

M

Is to move it toward designation, which is it makes it a done deal for you. So.

M

I'm trying to keep the door open and that's why I asked so if you insist on a.

M

Decision to make you may get one, you don't want.

O

My understanding is that there isn't enough to support designate, I'm not sure.

M

That we'd like to leave the options- oh yeah, I'm not sure, that's, been explored.

M

It has, in my mind, staff staff working for us. We, like staff, we disagree with.

K

Staff from time to time, I don't work for you guys. I mean you know just to be.

M

Totally transparent, we really struggle trying to maintain the historic.

M

Integrity of this town and our counterparts in planning continually.

M

Zone us out of being able to do that by offering economic opportunities for.

M

Development that are just overwhelmingly lucrative, and so when we get houses that.

M

Are designed houses that are very nice that fit the neighborhood that have a.

M

Place in the history and the town and make it the place that everybody wants.

M

To come to to build new buildings, we keep losing buildings and it's we're. You.

M

Know we don't have the perfect mechanism for working with owners that we have two.

M

Options, we can say sure, tear it down, what do we care, or we can say no we're.

M

Gonna find a way to designate it and now you're at our mercy, and we prefer not to.

M

Do that in every case, because all buildings aren't you know maybe they're.

M

Not up to that quality, this is a well designed building, I mean we, we struggled.

M

With whether it was a nickles design building or not, because it has so many attributes of a free classic architecture, that's famed the.

M

Bloomington's famous form, so I could probably find a reason to designate it.

M

J

Finding a way to work demolitions final and we never have any control over what.

M

Happens next, so that's our concern.

K

Is there any other house like this in bloomington, I haven't seen one well. We.

M

Have lots of we have lots of criteria, we have age, we have a familiar object in.

M

The landscape we've got plenty of criteria to designate this house. The.

D

Criteria, there's there's, you know, there's architectural right here historic criteria and it's so openly worded that it's not difficult for an.

D

Intelligent person to make a solid argument for why I should be designated.

D

I can honestly say: I've never seen another one like it. It's beautifully.

G

Done it's unique they've done it say you might remind your owner that the.

G

Students like unique and they pay more for it.

G

It is chickering that discovered that they they really pick out some nice.

G

Houses- and you know, paint them up nice and make them beautiful and they get top.

G

Dollar for them, if I can, I understand, if you release this, that it's a done deal.

O

It truly is not a done deal, but at the same point like said, we want some.

O

Clarity on what direction, if, if that is an option, we need to know that that.

O

Remains an option: take it down; it is not the way forward. In that way, I think we I.

E

Can say, go say we go to bat for all kinds of support of the of an addition.

E

That needed five, six, seven variances, and so we may be in the world where we.

E

Have to just go ahead of a good faith and understand that that's economic.

E

Pressures do speak loudly, but you know I. I know that all the when I walked.

E

Through and talked to the owner, he he does have an understanding of old houses.

E

And and and slim opportunity to find a way to make this work could happen. I I'm.

E

Not sure I want to see it going to council, that's that's the other thing I.

F

Think about what's the reality of that process, and this is a council that voted.

F

For them, you do that's their decision right. We have a different decision to.

M

Make we gonna let this keep happening or not, and if, if we can't, if there's.

M

Nothing we can do about it. Fine, okay, I'll, go home, but as long as there's.

M

Something we can do about it. I think that's what we should be doing if the.

M

Council wants to decide differently, then that's the council, I'm not going to make.

M

Decisions, you know based on what I think somebody else might decide that was.

D

Similar reasoning why the commission decided to designate the core building.

D

Yeah, you guys use the same one yeah there, sometimes just talking exactly the.

B

Same because, if you don't somebody will see a better, better economic opportunity.

M

Mm-Hmm, what what looks like one anyway? I think this is a jim.

B

Then, let's move it towards designation.

K

You asking promotions hmm I'll make one nope don't see address on this guy.

K

Today, weary up up up above regarding the property located at 414, east knights, the.

K

Historic preservation commission declares that I got noticed of the.

K

Proposed demolition and request that staff prepare a formal report on the.

K

Property and put the property on the hbc agenda to be officially considered force.

K

Local historic, designation under bmc 8.0, 8.01 d.

G

Oh, did, we have a say, have a second okay, okay,.

B

I abstain sam summer yep jack golden no john saunders.

C

H

Take all the time you need me to coin.

D

Yes, she carries, I do want to bring something.

D

Now because we've made this mistake in the past, I think we need to place it.

D

Under interim protection, because the 90 days will be up next week, mm-hmm you.

K

Want me to read the thing: there's a thing for it: yeah.

K

Today, after above the hpc recommends that the common council locally.

K

Designate the property at 4:14 east 9th street- where am I as historic and places.

K

The property under interim protection, pending action by the common council under dmc, 8.0, 8.01, 5, ok, ok, diverse abstain, yeah same dissolve, yes, jeff :,.

C

Yep john saunders, yes krister, baum, yes, motion carries. That said, I would also.

K

Like to say that we will totally go to bat to do whatever we can do to get an.

K

Addition working out for this one so what's gonna happen next is well. This is.

D

Interesting, no, I don't know this is get scheduled on.

E

Council, but it we don't know when it comes up on council schedule, the problem.

D

With this is two things have been done in one meeting that should have been.

D

Done different stages because there's property owner notification, that's.

D

Required we, I don't know if it's possible, if we can both vote for make a.

D

Motion for staff to prepare a report and place it under protection, which is.

D

Supposed to happen at the next meeting after staff is.

D

And report after both the owner has received notification just moving into.

M

We have to have an official formal hearing for designation from this group.

M

Which is what preparing preparing the documents like? Can we place it under.

D

Protection, I think we can do that until after that meet other meeting is held.

M

That's what I think yeah in the meantime, he doesn't have a.

M

Demolition permit, so he can't tear it down right, but in the 90 days has gone.

D

By legally, he has a right to tear it down. Five will meet within 90 days. Well,.

M

We know normal stuff. This 90 days is tuesday yeah, but we've moved to.

M

Designate, that's what stops the demo intern. I don't want anything else. I am.

A

Going to have to consult with others and render an opinion, I can't do it at the.

A

Moment this meeting is going to continue for a little while so I'll see. If I can.

A

Raise philippa to discuss with her what her thoughts are. If it's something that.

A

Needs to get corrected at this meeting. We can still do it. While this meeting is.

A

Continuing or she'll tell me that was perfectly fine what you did and then you.

A

Won't have to make any changes thanks, no sense to do it at a following sounds to.

E

Me like it's the ranch it's it doesn't need to be under.

M

As long as there's no demolition, if the 90 days runs, the 90 days is up and yeah.

N

Don't yeah, but we get the designation. No you've done that with you. Three west.

D

Sevens we found out that it doesn't that's right and I said he doesn't have.

L

A case oh okay, demolish their argument legally, was that the city had an.

D

Obligation to release the permit because the 90 days had expired and therefore.

D

They're not liable and because we didn't move all right. Let's move on to.

B

Demolition 2007 1209 was second street they're petitioners with us great okay,.

B

All right, you've already released it. It's in the full demolition coming back.

D

Around planning determined that since a year has elapsed since the demolition.

D

Has been released that this needs to be reviewed by the hpc I didn't do any.

D

Additional research to supplement the staff report written by rachel ellison.

D

In 2018, so there's nothing new, that's come up. It's the same structure. It's the.

D

Same request for a full demolition.

U

I'm sorry, do you anything air force? Well, I will just say we had continued for.

U

Quite a while to see if anyone wanted the house, we talked to real estate.

U

Agents we talked to the monroe county, youth shelter. They were already. They.

U

Already had a plan for a big addition and we tried- and you know you know the.

U

Property, it is in a very commercial, it's zoned commercial material. It's in a very.

U

Almost industrial commercial area- it is not in the neighborhood, so we tried, but.

U

We even got estimates we got bids for moving the house if anyone wanted to.

U

Move them we were even going to take in and nobody wanted, they would have to.

U

Pull off the stone half way up, they weren't sure what the stone was instant.

U

It wasn't, they didn't think it was real. You know, then it has been fabricated.

U

G

Okay, hang on one. Second, we have doug back. So, let's finish up.

B

With 20-7 and chris made a motion to release.

B

This way's need a paper paper paper.

F

Tearing apart, be located one second street historic preservation, commission.

F

Declares that it got notice of the proposed demolition after today's.

F

Discussion sees no need to review the plans any further. The waves, the rest of.

F

To hellman, listen to anywhere it is pc may lie to recommend the property first.

F

Historic designation, the council second.

C

Gompers, yes, sam cassell, eric koston, jeff :, yes, john saunders, yes,.

C

Mr. fong, yes now she carries.

J

All right, okay, thank you bruce! Are there any patients yeah? Thank you for your.

B

Patience: okay,.

D

Twenty-Eight 1:10 south indiana avenue the rating is notable. This is a partial.

D

Demolition, so they want to create a door right here in the alley side. Under this.

D

Window to meet fire egress, I asked the petitioner there's somewhere else. They.

D

Could put the door in the building to meet fire egress? Besides, on the alley.

D

Side and that's not a possibility, so it's the alley side and I think it it's.

D

Not going to destroy this building, so staff would recommend release.

E

Well, they do it in in a decorative way. Can they make the door? It's very plain.

E

Lord, that's a steel door, it's a home in a frame still little angle, even the.

K

Bricks alone, I guess it's no worse than the garbage cans and they even drew the.

E

Garbage it looks like they're putting it does not look like it's centered under.

K

The windows- and it also looks like there's some light fixture above there.

K

Is there any information on that look center to me under the well under the.

K

Two windows on the picture before that's that's two windows: okay, that makes more.

K

Sense, no all right and then there's a light fixture or.

D

Something over it, I suppose. So I imagine it's an exit. I mean it's an.

N

Emergency light you've got to have at the exit the less obtrusive the better.

M

So this is a this is a fire code. Yes,.

M

Well, they're doing some extensive remodeling on the inside. I think this.

D

Was something that fire alerted them to? They had to comply with.

B

It should be mental, it's gonna get trashed cancer right, we're not.

K

Conductive design review here: can they can they cut a hole on the side of the.

K

Building is all and can they screw in some? I think the only thing that I would.

K

Say is make them put the lights in and make sure that well, they're gonna have.

K

Conduit going in their building, they're gonna they're gonna muck with it.

K

But you know in terms of life safety, you don't wanna mess around. That's there yep.

B

Today, 110 south indiana avenue the historic preservation preservation.

F

Commission declares that it got notice and the proposed partial demolition and.

F

After today's discussion sees no need to review the plans even further and ways.

F

The rest of the demolition tool, a waiting period hpc, may later recommend.

F

The properties for historic, designation.

C

Yes, sam solid jeff golden yes, john saunders,.

C

Yes, mr. baum, yes, motion carries.

B

Very back to demolition delay, 19! No! We were just finishing up. Oh that's! Where.

O

Two craters we're ready to finish up with your breath. Oh I'm sorry, I didn't.

O

Know that was another.

D

F

T

D

D

I don't see, I don't think it's in the code saying having something about.

D

Having to give the property owner notification, that's probably that has the hp, c's rules and procedures, and maybe even the clg rules and procedure.

D

Certified local government rules and procedures could be in that document as well we're certified local government, so we have to conduct our preservation.

D

Commission a certain way, I know I saw that and that's okay. I was trying to.

D

Think of where that was because that was what got us with five to three west.

D

Seventh cuz, we didn't place it under inter protection and we didn't give the.

D

Property owner proper notification that these meetings were taking place like.

D

They didn't have the opportunity to show at a meeting before the structure was.

D

Forwarded to the council for designation.

M

So what was the advice from legal? We don't have it yet.

A

A

J

B

J