City of Bloomington, Indiana Plan Commission, 10 Feb 2020

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From YouTube: Bloomington Plan Commission, February 10, 2020

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meeting agenda: https://bloomington.in.gov/onboard/meetingFiles/download?meetingFile_id=5435

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We actually have they're pretty short agenda today for our city of bloomington.

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Plan commission for february 10th, 2020 so I'll call the meeting to order and.

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We'll start by calling roll st. john sandburg here jean cuyler here, kenzie.

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Hear hear hear.

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Okay, well, it looks like we have quorum and I wonder if we have any reports.

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Resolutions or communications staff for commissioners, anything okay, nothing from.

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Us, okay, all right! Well, we have some minutes to approve from december in.

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January anybody want to make a motion move to approve the minutes. Second, I.

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Wonder if we probably need to do them separately, do we need to do december/january separately desiree? Would you prefer yeah? Maybe we should.

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Okay, let's be let's be incredibly formal about this okay, so I'm gonna take up.

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Commissioner kate's, thank you. Thank you. Okay,.

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All those in favor of the december approving the december minute say aye.

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Aye any opposition. Thank you. Second great.

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Okay, we have a first in a second for january minutes, all in favor, say aye aye,.

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Any opposed, okay, all right minutes for december and.

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January are approved so we can move on to reports or I'm sorry.

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Let's move on to petitions now so we can looks like we only have one petition pud.

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0-120 cdg acquisitions llc at 1800 north walnut street request for a pud final.

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Plat approval for a 242 unit, mixed used development.

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All right eric: are you ready right here today requesting final plan approval for.

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This property, as some of you may recall this, receive a rezoning approval last.

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Year to rezone the property from commercial arterial in order to.

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Facilitate the redevelopment of this property, the property is on the north.

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Side of town, just across from miller showers park at 1,800 north walnut.

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Street, it's currently been developed with a motel 6 development, with several.

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Outbuildings and parking lot, the petitioners received approval to rezone.

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The property in order to allow for it to be redeveloped with a 242 unit, mixed-use.

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Development, so this would involve removing all of the buildings from the.

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Property in order to construct two new buildings on the site. Overall, the.

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Petition was approved to allow for a building that would be between five and.

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Six storeys in height it would have two separate buildings. One main large.

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Building on the west side of the site, that would have a parking garage.

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Incorporated into it and then another building on the east side of the site.

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That would be kind of a smaller building that would also be for residential uses.

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hmm So when this went to the planning commission, it then went on to the city.

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Council there were several changes that were.

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Made during the course of the city council review process, I'll just kind of.

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Briefly, kind of summarize some of those changes in case you were confused about.

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The site plan in front of you and how that was different from the previous one that you had seen. The petition that came to the planning commission did have an.

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Access drive along the front of the property to provide access to some of.

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The commercial spaces that was removed subsequently, the building was then moved.

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Forward as a result which brought it closer to the street, so there's a large.

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Outdoor plaza and seating area that is shown along the front of the building.

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Both along the commercial space and along the amenity space, the building.

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Also has some additional modulation that was provided around some of those areas.

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The setback was increased along some of the areas along the perimeter, an entire.

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Floor of the build was removed from the eastern building.

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That's building 2,000 on the right side of the screen here. A green roof was also.

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Added along a portion of the building and I'll show that just a second when I.

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Get to the floor plan as well as some solar panels were added, so they were.

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Kind of some substantial made changes that were made during the course of the.

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City council process, and so that is brought forward the site plan that you.

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See before you today, so there would be to access cuts on walnut street. The.

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Property currently has to access drives the existing access drive, that is on the.

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South side of the site would we would be relocated to the north, to align with the.

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Cut through that occurs just north and miller showers park. This would provide.

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Access to the parking garage which is located on the south side of building.

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1,000 there's also an access drive that circles around the main building as well.

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As extends back to the second or the eastern building, most of those drive.

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Connections are all to provide fire department access to those buildings, so.

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They will be shown with a paver block system. They will be certainly able to be.

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Used by vehicles, but for the most part they're just there for emergency access.

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So the petitioner has also provided a landscape plan. This is in your packet.

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Staff is still reviewing some of the details with the landscape plan, so this.

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Would be finalized prior to the issuance of a grading permit the petitioner.

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Previously committed to using native species throughout the property.

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And so they've incorporated native species and all of their plantings. But.

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We're still reviewing this with the grading permit, so that'll that'll meet.

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All of the requirements that they outlined in their district ordinance as.

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I mentioned there was a green roof that was shown, that is on the left side of.

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The building and I'll see, if I can kind of highlight that there we go so there's.

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A green roof component that was added on the west side of the building, as well as.

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Solar panels, you can see those along the south side of that building, so those.

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Were added at during the city council process, so this is the floor plan for.

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The building just showing the rough layout of the.

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With the green roof and the solar panels, you can see that the separate building.

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Along the east, as I mentioned, the setbacks were increase around some of.

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Those buildings to help facilitate some of the concerns from adjacent property.

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Owners, another area that was discussed with the previous petition was sidewalk.

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Connectivity both immediately adjacent to this property, as well as to dunn.

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Street in the iu parking lot- that is to the east of this, so the petitioners had.

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Previously committed to providing off-site sidewalk connections along.

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Walnut street in 19th street, that's the area, that's kind of shown in the black.

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Box here during conversations with the city council, they also agreed to extend.

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That sidewalk system along the entire 19th street corridor, so the petitioners.

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Have worked to come up with a kind of a conceptual site plan and we're still.

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Working through some of the details of the specifics of this plan, but this.

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Would involve the construction of a sidewalk and tree plot along the north.

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Side of 19th street all the way from walnut street to dunn street to the east.

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So we are continuing to work with the utilities department, as well as the.

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Petitioner, to balance all of the the hmong, the funds that are available to.

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Get a sidewalk and tree plot stormwater along that entire corridor. Fortunately,.

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There is right away along this area that helps facilitate some of that, but we're.

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Still working out some of those details and we'll have that, hopefully ironed out.

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During the grading permit stage so that'll be a substantial improvement.

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Along 19th street to get to students that will be utilizing this building.

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Over to the iu parking area.

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So real quick, I'm just going to kind of step through some of the renderings that.

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Have been submitted and the architectural elevations, these are.

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Predominantly very, very similar, in essence, to what was seen at the initial.

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Planning commission meeting not much has really changed along these. There was.

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Some additional brick and some modulation that was added during the.

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Course of the council review. Those have all been shown here in these renderings.

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As I mentioned, the building is predominantly five to six stories. There.

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Is areas of the parking garage that are a little bit taller, those reach a height.

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Of about 85 feet for the parking garage, so this elevation is two side facing.

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Walnut street the commercial space is along the left side of the building and.

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Then amenities center is along the right side of the building or the south side.

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Of the building, so you can see the substantial amount of glass, brick column.

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Along the front, as well as brick along some of the sides and the corners, those.

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Are all things that were agreed to during the city council meeting, so this.

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Is kind of the the previous rendering, but it's still very similar to what is.

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Being shown here today, so I just wanted to kind of step through that some of.

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These are just the previous renderings, just to kind of get a feel for the.

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Surrounding areas, so this is the overall massing model that was submitted with.

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The initial hearing, as I mentioned, the parking garage will have a height of.

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Approximately 85 86 feet that is long in the center of the building. The building.

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In the back will have a height of about 70 feet or 60 feet. This masky model does.

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Not reflect the floor that was removed from that building, so that has been.

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Reduced in height a little bit, one of the other components to this project.

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That was heavily discussed was bloomington transit and shuttle service.

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That will be contracted with bloomington transit, so the petitioners have arranged.

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For a contract with bloomington transit to provide an exclusive shuttle service.

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It would serve this development as well as other folks, along the blue.

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Transit route, so that route is shown in red here on this map. That is a three.

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Year agreement that will be renegotiated reanalyzed every three years, but the.

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Petitioners are not allowed to operate a shuttle to serve the campus and will.

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Contract with bloomington transit. So with that, as we found with the initial.

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Rezoning this petition furthers many of the goals of the comprehensive plan. It.

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Provides a substantial improvement over the existing use on the property.

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Redevelopment of student housing that is outside of the downtown there was a.

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Substantial housing contribution that was made for this project, I included.

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That initial commitment that was agreed to with the initial rezoning petition so.

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The high architectural design also is, will substantially improve the looks and.

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The view along this major corridor into the city, so we are recommending approval.

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Of the petition, with the four conditions that are listed in staffs report and.

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We've added a fifth condition that says that the petitioner will work, we'll work.

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With staff to add some windows along some of the blank wall, areas along the.

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Parking area so on the south side of the building, and it's mostly facing.

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Internally, but some of it will be visible from the street there's some.

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Large areas of blank wall that are adjacent to the parking garage entrance.

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We just like to continue to work with the petitioner to either get some art or.

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Some windows in there to help kind of break up that blank wall. So, as I.

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Mentioned we are recommending approval and I'm here to answer any questions.

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Thank you very much petitioner comments.

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I don't have a whole lot to add. Eric did a great job kind of summarizing. What.

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What we've put for, if we feel like we've, met all the requests of planning.

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Commission through the original process, as well as the city council process, we.

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Think we've, you know, put forth a great looking building as well as incorporated.

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Green and sustainable aspects- you know at the request of counsel and as well as.

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To just further approve the environment so available for any questions, but other.

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Otherwise, I feel we feel great that we've put forth a design or we've.

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Evolved the design and it still meets all the requirements that were set forth.

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Throughout planning, commission and council process great, thank you very.

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Much all right: well, we can go to commissioners, questions to staff and to the petitioner, do we have any on my left.

A

I don't know what the contribution amount was eric. You said you mentioned.

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It I didn't see it in here, I'm sorry fund the contribution amount to the fund.

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Did you say, that's been fine yep, so so the petitioner is contributing a certain.

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Dollar value $20,000 for 15% of the units, so it roughly, I think, works out to.

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Something like 2.4 million, something like that. Do you know how much it is.

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Okay, it's you have 15 percent of 750 times 20,000. All right someone's got a.

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Calculator here all right, let's figure out what that is.

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It's a different weight. Six point, two four, two two point: two.

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Four, seven: okay, and how is that paid? Is it paid as a.

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Lump sum, or so so that's broken down in their their commitment, but basically.

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They would be giving us a certain percentage of that with the building.

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Permit application and then the remainder of that will be given once the.

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Occupancy permits are issued, okay, so fairly upfront, yeah, yeah.

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All right, thank you. Electric vehicle charging stations, where, where did you.

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All end up on that I know staff is sort of encouraged petitioner to include.

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Those what what's your thinking currently on those electrical vehicle.

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Charging stations within the garage itself- I think you know originally.

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Before when we had parking in the front of the building, we were possibly gonna.

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Put some out there, but since that changed at the request of counsel they'll all be internal to the garage. No, I would say you know we have, I think, 415.

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Spaces total- and you know, we've done similar size projects and we've included.

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Three to four, which seems to be a pretty decent amount. They get a decent amount.

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Of usage, not you know it's kind of a transition. You know in across the.

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Country right now to that point and I'm slowly getting there. But I would say.

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Three to four would be a good number. Thank you. Any other questions to my left.

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Before you mean three to four per floor or just three to four total, so, but you.

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Know somewhere around 10 percent in the parking spaces for electrical vehicles.

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Or yeah one percent- I'm sorry.

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Okay, questions to my right.

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Off-Site improvement on 19th street, it looks like he extends all the way down.

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To dunn street, and what were you saying was the issues you're trying to sort out.

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For them to be allowed to do these improvements as there right away issue.

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Basically, are they going to be able to do these improvements, or is this just.

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Kind of us looking at something shiny and bright: no, they were, they were.

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Required to commit three hundred thousand dollars toward improvements.

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Along 19th street, so there is 50 feet of right away within 19th street to work.

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Within which is is great because we don't have to worry about acquiring.

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Right away, so at the very least, we will be able to get a sidewalk and tree plot.

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Along there, there are stormwater improvements that are proposed in there as well that the city of bloomington utilities department will be able to contribute money toward so it's a very least we'll be getting a.

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Sidewalk and street tree plot and stormwater improvements along 19th.

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Street, depending on the cost of those you know, then we might be able to work.

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In some more street trees or something of that, but they are required to spend.

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Money toward improving that corridor. Ok great! I had one other question and this.

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Is kind of the carryover of the first time we saw this, and this is to staff.

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Are they so I see that they're not planning on dedicating the roads to the.

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City and that's not something that the planning staff is encouraging them to do.

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And I'm curious: why not yep, so the the internal drives will be private, so the.

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The zoning code only requires public streets for single-family housing right.

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You know it's very common in multifamily situations and in commercial.

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Subdivisions where you just have a lot of driveways, but they are designed to.

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Meet public streets if they're being used that way, sometimes streets are just.

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Simply access to a building and parking spaces, so there's not really a.

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It to them being public dedicated right away, so the internal roads. For this.

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Would all be private, okay? Well, I just want to unpack that a little.

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Bit I mean they're asking to approve this, which means then we could, in return.

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Ask for them to dedicate the road. I understand that that's typically done.

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With single residents our single-family dwellings, so you I just first see a huge.

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Potential connection there and if we don't have a dedicated, we lose that.

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Possibility, like I said this was a concern I had when I saw this previously.

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So I just want to echo it again if they did dedicate that to the city. We would.

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Be basically having to maintain that right, plow it and things of that nature.

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So, outside of that, where else would be a downside fall and the perspective of.

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Planning, I guess so you know the downside is certainly one of the things.

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That you just mentioned there is the the maintenance of those roads. So you know.

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Public roads, you know they serve a benefit for providing services to.

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Adjacent residents, you know certainly the more roads that the city has the.

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More money we have to spend to maintain those, and so it's kind of a advantage.

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Disadvantage you know these will be used as roads they'll be. Have you know we can.

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Require an access easement through there, but there's not a road stub to the.

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Adjacent property to connect to so, although our transportation plan does.

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Have I believe, 20th street kind of extending or some kind of a road.

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Connection that was going through here, you know the petition was filed before.

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That was put in place so there's a utility line that runs along the north.

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Side of the building that actually the the utility line runs through the center.

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Of the property, I think right now so they're moving into the north side of.

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The site just so they don't have a building over it, so the location.

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Public line that runs through the site really kind of provided a big problem.

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For them in terms of where they could move it and not have a building placed.

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Over it, so yes, ideally if there, if this was a.

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Somewhat larger property- and there wasn't a public line moving through here.

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And there was the ability to have a public road moving all the way through.

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Here and a stub to connect to you know, that'd be advantageous. However, a lot of.

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Those factors aren't here so when we kind of reviewed the site plan or.

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Initially, you know the decision was kind of already made that we're not going to.

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Require a public road to go through here, so this is just kind of following up on.

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The site plan, and we already kind of looked at the district ordinance, the.

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Preliminary plan that we approved, so this is following you know basically.

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100% the preliminary plan that we already approved- okay, but I appreciate.

G

That, especially the practical difficulties you outlined with the.

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Utility, that's nice to know. Just in that area, you can see how there's been a lot.

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Of development, with these larger complexes that just basically bottleneck.

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Everyone within that apartment, complex, that's one reason I was really focused.

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On the 19th street, I feel, like that's a great alternative, and I think that could.

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Help a lot with some issues with congestion, not just traffic, but I'm.

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Talking about pedestrians too, and people just kind of making their own paths back.

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There to get around so I'm very happy to see that off-site improvement on 19th.

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Street, I think that will help out tremendously.

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Cesc question for staff: I don't know if miss scanlon or miss porter can field.

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This it has to do with the status of the you do. When does the new you do actually.

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Go into effect is that is it still waiting on the the mapping to be.

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Complete or this project is, since it be absolutely in nineteen, so the the new.

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Union will come in effect once the conversion map is approved, we're hoping.

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That will be april. First could be may first at the latest.

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So this pud that we're looking at is still kind of operating under the.

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Correct it's not operating under the, I don't want to say old, you do, but the.

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Current you do, that is in effect, which is why the contribution to the housing.

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Development fund is allowed to fly with this one right. Yes, that petitioners.

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Already previously voluntarily committed to that okay. Thank you all right. I have.

A

A couple questions related first to the green roof. Do you have a better image.

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Where that is going, can you show me again the floor plan that I've got here.

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Is kind of the the best image that shows that, and so that is on this corner of.

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The viewer and of you can see with a red mm-hmm guys, certainly around there, so.

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That's the that's the portion of the building that will be the green roof and.

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The floor plan there's really the kind of the best thing that I've got to show that area well, that'd be seen at all by anyone or anything visible for that.

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Might be better answered, petitioner, I can't say an airplane yeah, so that is.

D

One of the taller: well, I mean as the site the best the lower portion of the.

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Site but the tallest part of the building on that side of the site there.

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You know, I don't know that there would be anywhere throughout the buildings.

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That we would locate it that our residents could you know you have a.

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Visual sight line to it now, could you see it from other properties, potentially.

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But yeah we were, we were doing it strictly.

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From a environmental sustainability standpoint, not necessarily for a.

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Beautification so and then another question is a little bit more about the.

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Sidewalk eric used the word sidewalk system and I wonder if that means.

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Something more than than what I would typically see on a sidewalk are. There is.

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It wider or there bike lanes or arthur no, so it would be a five foot wide.

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Concrete sidewalk within a least a minimum five foot wide tree plot.

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Separating that between the street okay and what's what's on 19th now, I'm sorry.

A

I didn't look at my google maps before is it's kind of a hodgepodge. There are.

C

Some properties that have sidewalks there are a lot of them that don't, but.

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As part of this, we would be basically removing any kind of existing sidewalks.

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To install one continuous uniform system all the way across that corridor, okay, so.

A

That's a that would be a significant improvement, okay, great and then one more.

A

I must be on a green theme here: the conflict with the native landscape.

A

Versus the evergreens, I wonder, if is that clear to everyone.

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What it is that we'll be able to get in this is the focus. Will the focus be on.

A

Native landscape, because we can't really do the 50% evergreens, because that.

A

There's no biodiversity in that. Where are we on? That is know you you stated it.

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Pretty succinctly there, so the evergreen native shrubs are pretty much limited. I.

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Think to one thing, so that is that's something: we've kind of highlighted with.

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The new code, the petitioners are just working with our environmental planner.

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To see what would be the best solution to that, so while they are bound to use.

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Native species, you know if staff makes a determination.

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That something else might be more appropriate to increase the biodiversity.

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Then we'll look into that. Is that clear to petition.

A

Or what were clear as mud yeah have to continue to understand. The concern is.

D

You want native species, but there's only one type of evergreen and the other.

D

Thing you guys would like to see is biodiversity, and so we may need to work.

D

With staff to identify non-native species to get more evergreen but still.

D

Biodiverse but yeah there's a balancing act of what what you guys want to see.

D

Versus what we could provide per the code? Great okay, thank you. Yeah upon that.

F

So this is because the old code requires 50% evergreen right yeah, the the current.

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The current ordinance it and that has that been fixed for the new one. I can't.

F

Remember to be on so I think the the proposed new you do still has that 50%.

C

But I think we've introduced one or two other species that might help increase.

C

Of biodiversity- okay, I'm not a hundred percent on that, but I can give you a.

C

Better answer tomorrow here at the work launch session: okay,.

A

Yeah, that would be good to fix for next round and then one last or two last.

A

Questions one is about it's probably continuing, some of the things that try.

A

And brought up about the cut through or possible walk through and it the last.

A

Time we saw this, we asked about some possible, you know, I don't know if it.

A

Would be a I'll call it what we used to call it my neighborhood, a friendship.

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Gate between the two properties, the neighboring properties for people to.

A

Cross through and my presumption is that that's not there's no further.

A

Developments in the existing property owners, kind of allowing for some walk.

A

Through or anything that's that's correct. There was not interest on the.

D

Other parties part two, so they provided a sidewalk stub. um You know in a.

C

Connection to the property line so that at some point in future, if when the.

C

Adjacent property redevelops: we can extend that. Okay, that's the best. We can.

A

Hope for right now, alright and then the last thing was.

A

I'm pleased to see the bt route that was on there. Do you know if that's the.

A

Farthest north the bloomington transit goes, I mean, I think this might extend.

A

Bloomington transit farther north and now bloomington transit goes north of.

C

The bypass now it serves to fritz terrorist neighborhood, as well as the.

C

Cro yeah that's correct, yeah. I send a little bit further north from this okay.

A

But maybe it's north and yeah east that it I can't tell what's, is that the bite.

A

It's on than five pass is that traveling on the bypass? Well, so so the route that.

C

You see now the red line goes along the bypass, so for this specific route, this.

C

Would be the northernmost yeah nervous, okay, yep, okay, great.

A

All right, good, okay, any other questions. I have one just follow-up. Sorry, I'm in.

F

Task this follow when I asked before about the electric vehicle charging station. So if it turns out that there's an increased desire for more of those.

F

Charging stations in future is that something that's easily retrofit of all.

D

I'm not technically savvy enough to answer that. Honestly, I would have to.

D

Check with our electrical engineer, to know what kind of capacity those things.

D

Draw and how much excess capacity we may have on our house services mm-hmm, but we.

D

Can we can look into that and see if there's you know if, if we need to.

D

Increase service size to gain for more in the future. What that would take yeah.

F

Okay, I don't. This is focused sort of student housing.

F

Right so do do we have any data on how many students are driving electric.

F

Vehicles is that something you guys study is that do we have any information.

F

On that, we don't we don't. All we know is from historical use on other properties.

D

And we have these, in, you know ann arbor, michigan and.

D

Knoxville tennessee and you know it: we've had a couple charging stations per.

D

Location with a similar number of parking spaces, and they they do get used.

D

But they aren't, you know, there's not a lot of clamoring for them or request for.

D

More okay, yeah, that's the only data I have okay. Thank you all right are we.

A

Good to move on to public comment all right. If we have people from the public.

A

Please approach the podium and state your name and make your comment and you.

A

Have up to five minutes? My name is tom beavis. I am with the hamptons townhomes.

J

1739 north washington street, I'm here on behalf of us, as well as the windgate.

J

Motel that it joins our property, both of our properties are on the south side of.

J

The cdg project and we currently have an egress and in egress, address it for.

J

Walnut on that's an easement at the southwest corner of the cdg project that.

J

Easement is being requested to be moved to the north. We were opposed to that.

J

Movement in previous hearings- and we continue to oppose that- my attorney sent.

J

A letter today to those people involved and there is a indiana state supreme.

J

Court ruling as rou as early as latest 1980 or 2018 in ellis ville and we're.

J

Requesting that this be resolved before approval was given to this project.

J

It's rather critical to the entrance of their property, and it's critical to us.

J

A

K

Hi, I'm greg alexander my awareness. This project started. I was walking at 17th.

K

And and done walking to the football stadium with my young children, and I.

K

Noticed that the sidewalk was in poor repair didn't have ramps, didn't have.

K

Crosswalks didn't have had gaps that there was a sidewalk on like the east.

K

Side of don street north of 17th street that there wasn't a sidewalk on either.

K

Side of dunn street south of 17th street, even though this is, if you go and see.

K

There's plenty of people walking there constantly, there's no sidewalks on.

K

Either side of indiana avenue there's their sidewalk gaps still on north.

K

Walnut and I was navigating this kind of extremely poor pedestrian environment.

K

And I thought to myself gee: why did they just build? What do they call it evolved.

K

Used to be done, hill apartments right there, they just added hundreds of.

K

Bedrooms- and they didn't do a thing for these sidewalks on this side of the.

K

Street and they didn't do a thing for the intersection either, and I was.

K

Astounded, so I figured they just didn't ask the question. That was how it was.

K

Done ten years ago, he just didn't ask the question: it is their sidewalk.

K

Facility- and so I looked it up, but I was just shocked to find out the staff had.

K

Come here and said, specifically, you should build this project because the sidewalks here are so good and I was flabbergasted that was the first.

K

Pay-To-Play project- and I I didn't know what to make of that, but I kept watching.

K

And I found out about this project the second big pay-to-play project and staff.

K

Had made the exact same claims, and there wasn't even this one was a quarter mile.

K

Further away from campus, but there weren't sidewalks in between I walk on.

K

19Th street also with my kids, also because they loved uh we call it the.

K

Duck pond the miller showers park thing and there's no sidewalk there and the.

K

Crosswalks on walnut are a joke. There miss engineer and every way you possibly.

K

Could imagine they don't line up with the sidewalks that do exist and then.

K

Again, no sidewalk on 19th street and so on. So I came here to just to say you.

K

Know staff has made a mistake. You should look at this and I'm I'm really pleased.

K

That the petitioner has agreed to build the missing sidewalk on 19th street, but.

K

The students who live here will travel 19th street they'll, use that.

K

To get to the campus bus when the campus bus is running, if that fits their.

K

Schedule but sometimes they're gonna need to walk all the way to campus and.

K

There still aren't sidewalks undone or on indiana and that's such an obvious.

K

Place that people really do walk a good deal and they're just simply aren't.

K

Sidewalks people walk in the street, they walk in the mud, they walk in the gravel and there's not sidewalks on the east side had done north of 17th street and.

K

That's a huge ditch and it separates the street from the bus stop by you. Bus stop.

K

And it will be challenging, it will be a challenging project to build sidewalks.

K

There it will cost more than your typical sidewalk project, but that's.

K

Essential because there are so many now there's two crosswalks right there and.

K

Those crosswalks don't lead anywhere, they don't there's no sidewalk. I to the.

K

Street and so, if you're going anywhere other than the bus, you're kind of forced.

K

Across in a stupid place and one of the stupid places you can cross the 17th and.

K

Done which still hasn't been improved, there's no crosswalks, there's no there's.

K

You you literally can't get to one corner of the street there, because.

K

There's a big ditch on that corner, it's street also, and so on the one hand, it's.

K

Good that one gap is being filled in, but we have much larger gaps closer to.

K

Campus that remain before this project is viable as a pedestrian experience to.

K

Get the campus- and I bring this to your attention, not because I think petitioner.

K

Has a responsibility to fix every sidewalk in town, but because this.

K

Commission and the bodies that serve this function before is responsible.

K

Largely for a tremendous amount of leapfrog development, where there's no.

K

Sidewalks it defines the city about half of the city was built without sidewalks.

K

Systematically lacking sidewalks- and this is an example of that and now you.

K

Know you know better, but now we're doing infill development in places where.

K

There's no sidewalks, we need to address the sidewalk issue. We need to bring it.

K

To the council, some of you guys sit on council. Some of you guys are our staff.

K

You need to actually do something about the sidewalk situation here and I think.

K

I really it's gonna be a political thing. Perhaps lawyers need to get involved, but.

K

We should get into the we should get to the bottom.

K

Question of how was the staff erroneously determined that there were so many sidewalks here when they were not? Thank you. Thank you any other for.

A

Public comment: okay, seeing none eric can we get a staff input on the.

A

Legal matter that mr. eavis raised as that, so that is a matter between two.

C

Adjacent property owners regarding a private easement, so it's not a something.

C

That we regulate or enforce, that is for them to work out amongst themselves. So.

A

As far as we can determine, there's no effect that the council can do make or.

A

Nothing that we can do to resolve this yeah. We do not get involved with private.

C

Easements, absolutely they have to figure it out before they start construction.

C

And do anything so hopefully between now and grading, permit stage they'll be able.

C

To work out that between themselves has there been discussion about the the.

A

Location of this and of the south urges that the north easement, I don't know.

A

Which one it was so the petitioner would have to answer.

C

That yeah a little discussion back when we came to planning commission and.

D

Council previously- and you know, I think- and there may just be some.

D

Miscommunication or misunderstanding as to why the drive was set up the way it.

D

Was because it lines up with the cross over across from walnut or the cross.

D

Over of walnut, and so we would just need to hear tom's concerns about what that.

D

Is that you know, I think he just engaged us again as late as last week, so we just.

D

We need time to have that discussion read the legal documents, because it's.

D

Our understanding that the legal documents allow us to adjust the.

D

Easement air and I think he has a different understanding, so it's just something that we need to to continue to work.

D

Through okay, thank you. Thank you. It's.

G

About the easements, you don't intervene with easements on property, then what do.

G

You do in the plat committee, I mean I, I don't so I being a legit answer and the.

G

Reason why is because they are submitting a plat that shows ingress and.

G

Egress and if it is a shared easement, then planning should sort those matters.

G

Out before this commission deliberates that that is now, I understand you're, not.

G

Going to go to court over that, they need to sort it out and resolve it, but for us.

G

To be making a decision which could impact an easement, I think, is completely.

G

Planning's responsibility and I just don't think that was a fair answer. There.

G

So I spoke to our legal department this afternoon and they affirmed that this is.

C

Not our place to get involved. This is not a public easement, so there is, they.

G

Not be submitting this petition until it's resolved is my question, so that is.

C

A matter for them to work out, it is not a zoning issue. It's a shared easement, so.

G

It's kind of like someone submitting a petition but not owning the entire meets.

G

And bounds of that property? No, that's that's different! That's doing work on.

C

Somebody else's land, so this is them working within easement, that is between.

C

Them only so we do not enforce those. We did not get involved with that, but how.

G

Does it get here prior to them resolving that issue? That's my question. I would be.

G

Really curious, if we should be weighing in on this as there's still an issue.

G

With the easement sure I hear what you're saying our legal department had a.

C

Different opinion: okay nicely: I sort of follow up to that. Oh I'm, sorry too go.

F

Ahead, yeah, you had a question about two: we.

I

Discussed it with legal, they said we could go forward if you want to add a.

I

Condition of approval to this that says this cannot be built until the easement.

I

Situation is resolved. You can you can do that? That's fine.

I

That's basically all we could do at this point, based on the guidance that we got.

F

Can I just ask I'm trying to figure out what are the options here? This is.

F

Talking about ingress to the property right so from our standpoint, we're just.

F

Understanding how this is going to operate, it bears on our understanding of.

F

How people are getting in and out of this area? So what? What are the are? The.

F

Options, if we're being asked to approve the site plan, can we do that.

F

Assured that, however, these two parties resolve their concerns about the.

F

Easement that it's not going to impact our understanding of how this project is.

F

Going to work so so our our purview and the plaint commission's purview as well.

C

Is does this site plan meet the requirements of the unified development.

C

Ordinance and the district ordinance that has been approved and governs this.

C

Property, so the answer to those questions is yes, so the site plan, the.

C

Parking spaces, the setbacks, the height, all of those things that are regulated.

C

By the unified development, ordinance and the district ordinance have been met so.

C

This is you know, and I'm just gonna guys keep saying this. This is a private.

C

Easement they can change the terms of those easements at any time. We don't.

C

Have to sign off on them, we don't regulate them, we do not hold records of.

C

Them those are, those are private easements. So if one party thinks that.

C

They're meeting an easement and the other party thinks that doesn't then that's for their lawyers to work out. That's not a zoning issue. Okay! No thanks.

F

Eric I mean, I think I'm following that, but I guess it goes back to what you.

F

Said before about it would be different if they were building on someone else's property, but- and maybe I just don't know enough about the easement situation here-.

F

But I guess my limited understanding of an easement would be. What is this? Who.

F

Owns the land and who's granting the easement to whom, because.

F

There's not because if there's not either ownership by the petitioner or a.

F

Easement that allows you to use the property that's being reflected in that.

F

Photo then we are in that situation or we have someone building on me. Am I.

F

Missing something yeah, which I could easily be the plan that you see in front.

D

Of you is entirely on our property. The the the easement in question is an.

D

Easement that the property, our property granted to adjoining property owners and.

D

It's I believe, where the disconnect is, that is the interpretation of the.

D

Easement itself is whether it the grantor has the right to adjust location.

D

Of the easement, or not we're not we're not trying to take access away. We're.

D

Just adjusting the location, and so I think, and maybe if I can simplify the.

D

Ask is that I think we're requesting you approve the plan put in front of you.

D

That it meets all the the codes and ordinances that we're governed under and.

D

If that, if this plan were to have to change in the future because of a legal.

D

Document that you know we go down the path and figure out what needs to happen.

D

Then we would need to come back to staff or more planning commission to ask to.

D

Move the entrance, if that's something, that's required, but at this point I.

D

Think we all the information we have is that this plan put forth can be.

D

Constructed and we're asking for approval on this plan. You thanks. That's.

F

Very helpful, I guess the one there was a qualifier in the last thing. You said.

F

About, if, basically, if you need to come back, would that be the case if this.

F

Moves will we be seeing this again, it's possible we'd have to see what the.

C

Change would be, you know if it's just a simple matter of the driveway entrance.

C

As long as it meets the separation requirements from the adjacent drives on.

C

The same street would be our interpretation if we feel.

C

Like that's a substantial enough change, they would have to come back mm-hmm and.

F

Is that the case, without our putting a capri condition to that effect on that's.

F

Simply through the operation of the you do right, so as it as everything is shown.

C

Right now it meets all the separation requirements. You know if it needs to.

C

Adjust a float or two or three feet, you know that can be fine as long as it.

C

Still means the separation requirements from the adjacent drives. That's really.

C

The only place that the you do governs where this could, where this drive can be.

C

Located you know, our main concern was making sure that it aligned with the cut.

C

Through from miller showers across the street, you know that that's the main.

C

Concern so as long as it's you know our traffic and transportation folks, they'll.

C

Say that it's safe, then you know it could be possible to move it and.

C

Wouldn't have to come back to the plane, commissioner, okay, okay, thank you. Thank.

F

You both all right, so are we ready for anyone to make a motion on this pud.

A

As I half recommendation is approval, with the five conditions noted, we want.

A

To make a motion in that regard, I move that we approve case number pud, o 120.

F

With the conditions recommended by staff.

F

All right do we want to have any discussion about this? Are you guys gonna.

A

Propose something else, I find it pretty important to really sort that issue out.

G

With the connectivity there I mean not just the sole fact that I use that all.

G

The time to kind of meander over, if that's a legit easement and then they.

G

Move it to the south that good impact setbacks. Other types of minutiae in this.

G

Petition that are yet to be seen since it's not really sorted out. I, I guess I'd.

G

Have a general question: if we conditioned it to be sort out how long.

G

Do you think that process may take if anyone's equipped to answering that.

C

That's for the petitioners answer. I.

D

Can't answer what the timeline may look like, because, again, I think it's gonna be.

D

A legal question right as to whether or not the the easement allows for it to be.

D

Shifted or if it doesn't allow it to be shifted, then, what's the next step in.

D

Working out what what is agreeable to both parties, so I got yeah to put a.

D

Condition on the approval would, I think it makes it a little bit difficult to.

D

Understand what that condition would be because we and I'm not trying to.

D

Foreshadow the future either like if we don't necessarily agree on the language.

D

Of the easement docket- and we have a disagreement, then that's something that we're gonna have to work out in the legal realm. So.

D

It may never be necessarily worked out, and- and I don't know because I this is.

D

You know kind of new information here. No, no, you did your best, I guess more or.

G

Less, do you think you would be able to if if the easement stays intact and they.

G

Do need a connection there, like the plan that has been submitted if they had to.

G

Be reworked, do you think that could be handled a staff level? I mean we're.

G

Talking about I mean if that easement stays in place, they got to build access.

G

There, so it's not just insignificant point that here so my question is: if.

D

They had to submit a new plan. Do you think that staff could manage that.

G

In-House and everything would be fine to do those adjustments. Of course, you could.

G

Handle it, but my question is: would you feel comfortable of making sure that.

G

That potential connection is intact and has everything that, as long as it means.

C

You know, as long as it meets the separation requirements from an adjacent.

C

Drive and our transportation and traffic engineer is comfortable with any safety.

C

Aspects then, yes, we can absolutely work that out at staff level. Okay, I still.

G

Feel, like the whole thing I do feel like planning, does have a bigger role than.

G

What was explained today, but I don't want to put the onus on the perdition.

G

Petitioner today, so I'm not going to make a motion because I wouldn't know.

G

When that would be resolved, I thought it's unfair, but I really would think it.

G

Would be more pertinent for the staff to look at these easement issues when they.

G

Come up because if it does change, it could switch up the whole petition. You.

G

Like I mean to say that it's not in your ballpark, I think.

G

Isn't fair to what we're supposed to do as a commission without some of that.

G

Information available. Okay, if can I make a couple clarifications? One.

I

There's no platte associated with this petition, so we're not recording a plat.

I

We're not legitimizing seeing this easement, we don't have anything to do.

I

With it we're doing a site plan on a metes and bounds property that exists, that also has easements, just like many other.

I

Conditions we do. We say you know this. One wasn't done in condition form, but if.

I

They can't figure out the easement with the other parties. Then they're not going to be able to build this and they're taking that on. That's a risk.

I

Just like other things where we say, hey, you're gonna have to preserve this whole.

I

Tree conservancy area, if they can't figure out how to develop and and do.

I

That then they just won't be able to do it. So the you do does have some guidance.

I

About if there, the scope of the changes so hope, for example, if they can't figure.

I

Out the easement and they have to change the site plan. That's what this is. The.

I

Development plan then they're the you do does allow us to do some of that at.

I

Staff level and we're happy and able to do that if it has to become wildly.

I

Different than we would not feel comfortable doing that, and we would bring it back to you, so it's not going to go up and everyone's gonna say that's not what we approved. I just want to clarify that. It's important to note that.

I

This this is not a plat, we're, not recording a plat there's. No, you know.

I

That brings into the discussion of the roadway and everything that that's not.

I

What this is, this is basically a site plan called a development plan, because.

I

It's an mp, u d, and that is a risk that the developer is taking by asking for us.

I

To approve a site plan where they have an external change that they need to get.

I

Done before they can start building it so just to clarify. Thank you. Nice thank.

A

You all right, do we have one more comment over here. I know we all want to.

H

Do our due diligence up here and this kind of threw in a an eleventh-hour.

H

Question that I am satisfied with the staffs explanation to where I don't feel.

H

That we need a sixth, reasonable condition here. I trust that.

H

Staff will manage this as it comes to them and if it does become more.

H

Complicated and seriously alters what we've discussed here today that you.

H

Would bring them back so I'm fine with the five reasonable conditions, as has.

H

Been moved all right, I think that's where we're settling now all right, so we.

A

Have a motion to accept the staff recommendation with the five conditions.

A

Noted here for pud zero, one, two zero.

A

Are we ready for any final comments, or do we want to do anything else on this.

A

Whole proposal call the question.

A

Okay, ready, okay,.

B

Yes, okay, yes, kenzi! Yes, shawn boiler, yes chamber! Yes, st. john, yes coin! All right.

A

So motion passes passes and when he of approved pud, 0 1 2 0, with the conditions.

A

Thank you thanks all right, I think we're adjourned.

L