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From YouTube: September 23, 2021 Planning Commission Meeting
Description
Planning Commission Meeting
A
Good
evening
welcome
to
the
may
or
the
september
23rd
2021
bloomington
planning,
commission
meeting
tonight.
We
have
four
items
on
our
agenda:
one
of
those
open
for
public
hearing
a
couple
things
here
for
you
before
we
start.
The
planning
commission
is
made
up
of
seven
members,
volunteers
from
the
community.
They
are
appointed
by
the
city
council
and
serve
for
up
to
three
year
terms.
A
The
planning
commission
does
provide
recommendations
to
the
city
council
and
has
some
final
decisions,
and
tonight
we
have
again
one
item
that
will
be
recommended
for
city
council
at
the
october
25th,
for
public
hearing
and
with
that
before
we
start
tonight.
If
I
could
have
everybody
stand
and
we'll
say
the
pledge
of
allegiance.
A
B
A
All
right,
thank
you,
mr
marker
guard
appreciate
that
and
again
for
the
public
tonight.
After
we
hear
the
initial
staff
report,
the
commission
may
ask
the
staff,
if
they're,
for
any
questions,
clarifying
questions
then
we'll
go
to
the
applicant
if
they
have
any
additional,
which
again
is
city
of
bloomington
tonight
and
then
we'll
open
up
the
public
hearing
at
that
time.
A
What
we
would
ask
is
that
people
abide
by
a
three-minute
limit
so
that
if
there
are
others
that
wish
to
speak,
they
have
an
opportunity
and,
if
there's
more
to
be
said,
we'll
come
back
to
that
person
after
everybody's
had
an
opportunity.
So
with
that,
can
we
start
with
item
number
one?
Mr
johnson,
fire
station
number
four.
C
C
Okay,
maybe
we
should
start
at
the
start
of
the
presentation,
so
the
end
all
right.
The
two
requests
before
you
this
evening.
The
formal
aspects
of
the
application
involve
a
rezoning
request
to
add
the
pd
overlay
district,
the
plan
development
overlay
district
and
then
the
preliminary
and
final
development
plans
for
a
new
fire
station
for
replacing
the
existing
station.
C
So
fire
station
4
is
located
to
the
west
of
france
on
94th
street.
It's
right
at
the
intersection
of
irwin
road,
84th
and
johnson
avenue.
So
you
can
see
the
surrounding
area
here
on
this
location
map
wanda
miller
park
is
just
across
the
street.
There
is
a
office
and
technology
use
across
irwin
road
and
then
the
remainder
of
the
surrounding
properties
are
single-family
residential
in
nature.
C
So
that
gives
you
a
flavor
of
the
the
neighborhood
here
is
a
zoomed
in
oblique
image
of
the
existing
property.
So
you
can
see
that
the
site
plan
of
the
existing
fire
station
has
a
similar
circulation
and
driveway
pattern
is
what
is
going
to
be
proposed
before
you
in
the
site
plan
that
I'll
show
you.
What
you
will
notice
is
that
this
station
is
much
smaller.
C
C
C
Work
was
not
only
kind
of
identifying
the
types
of
facilities
that
the
city
needed,
but
the
locations,
and
what
that
analysis
yielded
is
that
the
majority
or
all
the
stations
are
located
approximately
in
the
correct
place
in
order
to
serve
the
neighborhoods
that
they
serve,
and
that
certainly
is
applicable
to
fire
station
for
here
this
evening,
and
so
that
was
and
that's
based
on
response
time.
That's
based
on
different
metrics
that
that
fire
departments
use
to
evaluate
where
to
house
their
station
areas
based
on
response.
C
So
many
of
some
of
you
are
on
the
board
for
fire
station
3
when
that
came
through.
That
was
the
first
fire
station
to
be
completed
in
this
facility
replacement
program,
and
that
was
a
little
bit
of
a
unique
circumstance
and
that
the
city
was
able
to
acquire
new
lands
to
build
that
station.
The
majority
of
the
other
fire
stations
are
scheduled
to
be
replaced
on-site,
the
location
of
their
existing
facility
and
fire
station.
Four
is
the
next
facility
scheduled
for
replacement.
So
that's
the
application
before
you
this
evening.
C
The
rezoning
action
is
really
more
of
a
formality
or
a
small
piece
of
what
is
under
your
consideration
tonight.
The
the
addition
of
the
planned
development
overlay
district
simply
is
tied
to
their
submission
of
preliminary
and
final
development
plans.
The
base
zoning
of
the
property
is
not
set
to
change,
so
no
underlying
you
know
additional
uses
are
allowed
by
not
by
leaving
the
the
base
zoning
in
place.
C
So,
as
you
can
see
on
the
slide,
it's
simply
just
throwing
that
hashing
on
the
fire
station
site,
which
represents
the
plan
development
overlay
district,
get
into
the
site
plan.
That's
before
you
in
the
final
development
plans.
As
I
said,
the
the
driveway
access
is
proposed
to
remain
the
ch
remain
the
same.
There's
two
driveways
to
irwin
road
and
a
larger,
expanded
driveway
to
west
84th
street.
You
can
see
the
facility
is
in
the
central
portion
of
the
site.
It
does
extend
further
west
than
the
existing
condition
and,
of
course
this
is
a
two-story
facility.
C
C
The
the
site
takes
advantage
of
one-way,
dry,
vials
and
angled
parking.
It's
kind
of
an
efficiency
that
they're
doing
giving
the
constrained
nature
of
the
site.
That's
one
way
to
kind
of
shave
down
some
of
the
required
widths
and
dimensions
so
that
angled
parking
is
provided
along
the
north,
as
well
as
on
the
east
side
of
the
building.
C
Other
aspects
that
kind
of
speak
out.
The
existing
site
has
some
grade.
That
starts
on
the
high
side
on
the
west
side
of
the
site,
and
it
goes
down
to
the
east.
So
there
are
some
retaining
walls
being
shown
on
the
west
to
address
that
grade
and
actually
kind
of
build
out
or
dig
out
the
western
portion
of
the
building
so
to
the
west.
You
actually
won't
be
at
the
ground
level
of
the
fire
station.
C
If
you
were
looking
at
it
from
the
western
abutting
properties,
yeah,
that's
kind
of
the
key
features
of
the
site
plan.
They
they
are
showing
a
replacement
sidewalk
along
west
84th
street,
which
certainly
is
part
of
our
standard
code
requirements
for
our
collector
road
and
no
sidewalk
proposed
along
irwin
right
now.
There
is
no
public
sidewalk
to
connect
to
along
irwin
for
non-residential
uses.
It
is
allowed
to
forego
the
construction
of
sidewalks
when
it
doesn't
create
a
connection
to
the
public
network.
C
C
C
The
other
element,
I'll
mention
here
just
when
we're
looking
at
the
building
elevations,
is
that
one
of
the
things
that
might
be
of
question
or
consideration
of
the
planning
commission
is
structure
height.
The
tallest
portion
of
the
structure
is
44.7
feet
in
height
and
that's
to
the
south,
to
the
southern,
the
southern
building
elevation
and
that's
where
they
do
some
of
their
aerial
training
and
other
things.
C
But
given
this
is
a
residential
area
just
to
note
that
city
code
maximum
is
40
feet,
so
they
are
exceeding
that
by
four
feet
in
height
and
requesting
flexibility
for
that,
but
just
to
note
that
that's
where
you
would
see
that
larger
structure
height
is
on
the
south
side
and
then
on
this
west
elevation.
This
is
that
area
where
you
have
that
retaining
wall,
and
so
you
can
see
how
this
the
the
station
is
kind
of
dug
out
and
that
the
budding
property
to
the
west
is
actually
a
bit
higher.
C
So
the
the
massing
of
the
building
on
the
extent
of
how
tall
it
feels
or
seems
will
be
lessened
via
that
here's
the
floor
plan
on
the
ground
level.
So
this
is,
you
know
day-to-day
operations
and
certainly
equipment
focused.
You
have
the
offices
and
the
dispatch
on
the
east
and
north
sides
of
the
building.
You
do
have
some
classroom
space
in
the
southeast
portion
of
the
building
for
training
and
other
educational
purposes
for
the
firefighters
in
the
central
portion
of
the
building.
C
You
have
decontamination
facilities
as
they
take
their
equipment
out
on,
runs
or
calls
they
have
to
treat
it
when
they
get
back
the
hose
tower
and
the
stairwell
serving
the
facilities
on
the
south
side
that
gets
to
that
structure
height
that
we
talked
about
and
then
in
the
central
and
west
and
north
portion
of
the
building.
That's
the
apparatus
bays
where
they
would
be
housing,
the
larger
fire
trucks
on
the
west
side
of
the
structure.
C
The
apparatus
bays
are
certainly
just
open
to
the
floor
below.
So
the
really
the
use
aspect
is
more
on
the
east
side
of
the
side
of
the
second
level,
and
then
you
have
the
stairwell
and
the
the
hose
tower
in
terms
of
the
landscaping
plan
that's
proposed.
They
are
proposing
a
code
compliant
amount
of
materials,
a
lot
of
a
significant
amount
of
shrubs
associated
with
the
project.
C
We
would
like
to
see
them
locate
some
additional
trees
on
the
north
side
of
the
site,
if
possible.
I
know
that
they're
concerned
about
conflicts
with
ladder,
trucks,
another
apparatus
that
is
taller-
and
that
makes
sense
so
we'll
try
an
album
in
the
ribs
to
look
at
that.
But
that's
something
that
we
would
recommend.
C
C
The
majority
of
these
flexibilities
are
modest
in
nature
and
scale,
but
all
of
them
really
are
tied
to
the
constrained
nature
of
the
site
of
constructing
a
modern
facility
on
the
existing
site.
Without
you
know
doing
acquisitions
or
adding
additional
land
area,
the
site
is
an
acre
in
size,
so
certainly
building
a
modern
fire
station
on
that
facility
is
going
to
be
challenging
from
a
full
code
compliance
perspective
so
getting
to
the
structure
setbacks.
That
is
one.
I
will
talk
about.
C
Also
talk
about
the
the
ground
sign
unless
there's
other
questions
about
others,
but
the
structure
setbacks
the
main
flexibility
being
requested,
as
I
said,
they're,
they're,
fairly
modest
and
the
reason
I
say
that
is
that
that
enclosure
for
the
generator
and
the
trash
and
recycling
area,
which
is
enclosed,
not
the
generated
area
but
the
trash
and
recycling
area.
You
know
that's
a
fairly
limited
in
height
it's
around
six
feet
in
height
and
that
area
is
seven
feet
away
from
the
property
line,
so
that
doesn't
meet
the
20-foot
required
setback.
C
But
that's
a
fairly
small
structure,
the
portion
of
the
building,
that's
not
meeting,
and
it
gets
a
little
bit
confusing
because
sometimes
setback
is
based
on
structure
height
versus
it's
either
the
greater
of
the
structure,
height
or
just
20
feet.
So
you
can
see
that
small
or
that
narrow
red
outline
portion
of
the
building,
that's
not
meeting
a
required
24
foot
setback,
but
it's
fairly
close,
that's
a
small
dimension
and
then
on
the
northeast
portion
of
the
building
and
just
near
the
garage
bay
doors.
C
There's
a
50
foot
set
back
to
west
84th
street,
which
currently
is
being
shown,
is
46th
street
46
feet.
Not
street.
Excuse
me
so
again,
fairly
modest
in
the
size
of
the
the
flexibility
being
requested,
the
other
pd
flexibility
that
is
involved
in
this.
We
can
talk
about
these
individually
if
people
have
questions,
but
the
staff
report
did
outline
these
various
requests
for
flexibility.
C
They
include,
structure,
height
parking
drive,
aisle
setbacks,
landscape
yards,
those
two
are
kind
of
connected
the
parking
quantity
similar
to
other
projects.
We
used
an
internal
capture
approach,
but
just
a
kind
of
from
a
procedural
standpoint
did
identify
that
as
flexibility,
even
though
they
kind
of
have
uses
that
operate
concurrently.
C
Retaining
wall
setbacks
similar
to
a
multi-family
project
that
we
brought
for
through
a
little
ways
back.
You
know
one
of
the
reasons
why
retaining
walls
have
setbacks
is
that
you
don't
have
large
massing
along
building
lines.
In
this
case,
the
wall
is
beneath
the
higher
property
to
the
west,
so
really
doesn't
present
any
kind
of
impact
or
nuisance
that
way,
and
then
retaining
walls
and
parking
lot.
Screening
yeah.
We
support
those
things.
C
The
one
thing
I'll
mention
the
the
one:
flexibility
that
planning
staff
is
not
in
concurrence
with
with
the
applicants
has
to
do
with
the
ground,
sign
setback
and
the
reason
for
that.
It's
not
overly
complex
or
in
any
way
mean
spirited
anyway.
Really.
What
it's
about
is
that
a
code
complying
setback
for
the
sign
could
be
provided
in
that
area.
They
believe
that
having
it
closer
to
the
street
would
be
beneficial
to
promote
public
safety
messages,
and
we
certainly
respect
that
desire
and
that
perspective.
C
But
in
terms
of
looking
at
flexibility,
you
know,
planning
staff
and
staff
in
general
can
be,
can
take
a
more
analytical
or
rigid
approach
when
it
comes
to
seeking
deviation
or
flexibility
only
when
it's
necessary
versus
desired.
So
the
ability
to
provide
that
facility
at
a
complying
setback
is
what's
part
of
that
recommendation.
C
Miscellaneous
issues
that
come
up
you
know,
similar
to
any
project,
will
include
conditions
that
they
have
to
meet,
provide
a
lighting
plan
to
be
approved.
They
comply
with
their
trash
recycling
standards.
Fencing
on
site
complies
that
rooftop
screening
is
provided
in
order
for
visual
impact
purposes.
One
thing
I
do
want
to
touch
on
is
that
you
know
with
an
outdoor
generator
they're
not
proposing
to
have
that
enclosed.
At
this
time,
we've
let
the
fire
department
and
the
applicant
know
about
the
city's
noise
requirements.
C
This
has
been
an
issue
that
has
generated
some
interest
in
the
past.
Certainly
so
the
city
has
they're
called
l-10
noise
standards
in
terms
of
sustained
decibel
level
of
noise
that
those
facilities
create.
They
have
a
couple
things
going
for
them,
one.
They
don't
operate
this
generator
very
often,
typically
just
quarterly
or
monthly
to
test
it.
Power
outages
to
the
station
are
infrequent,
or
maybe
the
chief
could
tell
me
how
often
they
occur,
but
not
often.
C
So
between
those
issues
you
know,
I
don't
believe
it
will
create
a
nuisance,
it's
something
they
have
to
continue
to
monitor,
but
we've.
Let
them
know
about
the
the
ordinance
requirement.
I
should
state
that
the
environmental
health
department
is
currently
working
on
changing
the
city's
noise
standards
to
be
consistent
with
state
statute.
I
know
at
a
previous
application.
There
are
some
inconsistencies
between
our
code
and
the
state
law,
so
I
don't
know
if
that'll
come
through
planning
commission,
I
would
anticipate
it
probably
wouldn't,
but
that's
something
that
environmental
health
is
currently
working
on.
C
C
D
Commissioner
roman,
thank
you,
mr
chair.
Thank
you,
mr
johnson,
for
the
update
on
this
project.
I
have
a
couple
of
questions.
If
I
may,
the
first
one
is
around
just
for
the
context
setting
of
plan
development
in
my
time
on
this
body.
I'm
not
aware
of
a
time
when
we
have
maybe
we
have-
and
I
just
don't
recall,
had
a
planned
development.
For
I
mean
this
isn't
really
a
plan
development.
It's
one
lot,
one
project,
it's
not
a
future
long-term
plan.
D
C
Yeah,
chairman
solberg,
commissioner
roman,
that's
fair,
not
all
plan
developments
that
we
deal
with
are
multi-phase
projects.
Actually
many
of
them
are
a
single
phase,
so
I
mean
in
the
case
of
why
to
pursue
a
plan
development.
The
plan
development
does
have
built-in
flexibility.
Should
you
be
able
to
meet
certain
criteria?
So
it
is
a
tool
to
kind
of
provide
some
innovation,
or
you
know
one
way
to
address
difficult
sites,
typically
for
the
development
community,
not
the
city
as
a
developer.
C
Obviously,
but
it's
not
uncommon
to
have
single
phase
development
glenn
might
have
a
better
idea
of
any
other
city
facilities
have
ever
utilized
the
plan
development
tool
as
a
means
of
development.
I
that
doesn't,
I
don't
recall
that
off
hand,
but
I
mean
it's
not
unique
to
bloomington
the
plan.
Development
tool
is
basically
a
means
to
get
flexibility
from
the
zoning
code
if
you
are
able
to
provide
in
our
code
a
public
benefit,
but
that's
kind
of
a
common
approach
amongst
other
cities
as
well.
D
And
I'm
thinking
about
this
project
in
relation
to
station
three
which
we
saw-
I
guess
it's
probably
been
two-ish
years
or
so
ago
now
you
know
very
similar
design,
very
similar
approach.
One
of
the
things
that
was
in
the
staff
report
was
requirements
on
exterior
lighting,
timers
motion,
sensors,
etc,
etc.
C
That's
a
good
question
and
that
that's
something
that,
to
be
frank,
that's
not
something
that
I
zeroed
in
or
concentrated
on
greatly.
I
don't
think
we
don't
have.
The
building
code
itself
has
certainly
standards
for
internal
lighting.
So
that's
something.
That's
always
worked
out
with
their
electrical
permit
and
the
electrical
reviewers
who
review
those
plans.
C
The
only
thing
that
comes
to
mind,
I
know
that
we've
done
is:
we've
had
some
self-storage
facilities
right
in
the
past
that
we
have
that
we
have
put
some
extra
conditions
on
in
terms
of
keeping
those
not
illuminated
I'll.
Certainly
let
the
fire
chief
speak
to
it.
But
my
guess
is
that,
in
the
the
event
of
you
know,
those
facilities
aren't
providing
a
public
safety
purpose,
so
in
the
event
of
an
emergency,
I'm
sure
that
they
would
need
lighting.
I
think
the
key
you're
trying
to
make
is
don't
over
light.
D
C
Yeah,
commissioner,
roman
sorry,
chair
solberg,
they
they
had
one
planned.
They
never
have
installed
it
to
to
this
date.
I
think
they
still
hope
to
sure,
but
that's
something
with
just
all
the
there.
There
was
a
lot
of
changes
happening
along
east
hill
chokopi
road
at
that
time,
and
so
they
were
kind
of
putting
pause
on
that
until
they
waited
till.
They
see
how
to
orient
the
sign
with
the
new
changes
that
hennepin
county
made
to
that
roadway
and.
C
E
C
Yeah,
commissioner
cook
chairman
solberg,
commissioner
cook,
done
forgive
my
bad
job
at
formalities
here.
Yes,
I
did
do
a
little
bit
of
research
on
that.
It
is
kind
of
odd
that
you
see
a
bunch
of
single-family
properties
and
I'm
sure
homeowners
have.
You
know
no
idea
that
many
of
their
properties
have
the
plan
development
overlay.
The
reason
what
it
has
to
do
with
is
that
that
west
side
of
irwin
road
was
actually
not
planted
and
subdivided
until
as
part
of
that
condo
or
apartment
building
project.
C
That
would
happen
to
the
southeast
of
them.
My
guess
is
that
it
had
a
similar
landowner
and
came
under
an
original
plan,
development,
pd
preliminary
development
plan,
and
then
they
pursued
subdivision
of
that
land
as
to
single
family
homes,
but
for
whatever,
because
it
came
in
under
the
same
pd
that
overlay
extends
over
those
parcels.
So
that's
the
reason
for
that.
B
C
D
C
In
residential
areas.
We
do
have
standards
for
how
bright
they
can
be.
Those
screens
tend
to
get
fairly
bright,
and
so
what
we
do
and
actually
signs
all
over
the
community
we'll
go
out
and
we'll
inspect
them
for
their
brightness
level
to
ensure
that
they
don't
become.
You
know
two
for
lack
of
a
better
term
too
obnoxious
and
the
standard
is
lower
in
a
residential
area
than
it
is
say
if
you
were
on
lindale
or
if
you're,
along
494
or
35w.
So
we
do
have
standards
for
that
and
we
do
inspect
yeah.
A
A
C
C
There's
a
flagpole,
that's
planned
just
to
the
south
of
that
area.
I
can't
zoom
in
because
the
powerpoint
slide,
but
I
could
bring
up
my
blue
beam,
but
so
they
what
it
basically
would
be
as
a
as
a
design
choice,
I
mean
you
could
locate
the
fire,
the
flagpole
theoretically
somewhere
else
too,
and
these
are
conversations
we
have
with
the
designers
as
the
course
of
going
through
reviewing
the
project
but
effectively
what
it
would
be.
C
The
simple
solution
would
be
to
swap
the
flagpole
in
the
sign,
as
you
move
the
sign
further
away
from
the
street.
Obviously
it
makes
it
a
little
bit
less
visible,
but
part
part
of
the
part
of
the
reason
we
have
signage
regulations
to
begin
with
is
to
not
overly
clutter
the
public
right
away,
so
not
that
this
is
a
busy
right
of
way.
C
A
C
Yeah,
so
we
we
have
assessed
that
and
evaluated
that
with
other
projects
we
haven't
gotten
to
that
level
of
the
nitty-gritty
design,
but
they
do
have
engineered
modular
block
type
walls
that
do
not
require
tie
backs.
Given
that
you
know
this
is
a
more
modest
wall
and
height.
I
don't
think
that
it
will
need
significant
tie
backs
the
designers
are
here.
They
probably
could
give
you
a
precise
answer
as
opposed
to
a
half
a
half
answer,
but.
A
A
C
Yeah,
thank
you,
chairman
solberg.
I'm
gonna
circle
this
area
here,
where
it's
located.
It's
actually
not
the
hose
tower.
It's
the
stair
tower!
Oh
okay!
So
it's
this
portion
of
the
stair
tower
the
very
tip
top.
If
you
see
the
block
the
stone
stairwell
as
opposed
to
the
brick
on
the
left
hand,
side
of
the
south
elevation
shot
so
there's
a
there's,
a
full
door.
Access
that
gets
allows
the
firefighters
to
get
up
on
the
roof,
to
do
aerial
training
and
that's
on
the
actual
north
side
of
the
the
stairwell.
C
But
in
order
to
achieve
that
full
door
height
and
to
have
a
stairwell
up
to
the
roof
as
opposed
to
a
ladder,
that's
why
they
need
that
height
of
the
44
feet
to
for
the
required
clearance.
So
they
do
aerial
training
up
here
I
mean
it
also
serves,
as
certainly
as
a
maintenance
purpose
as
well
for
the
equipment
on
the
roof.
They
have
some
mechanical
units
and
other
things.
So.
A
And
that's
a
deviation
of
approximately
four
and
a
half
feet:
four
and
a
half
feet:
that's
right,
okay
and
then
I'm
gonna,
maybe
ask
you
on
the
site
plan,
because
it
when
I
was
trying
to
look
through
it,
it
was
hard
to
tell
maybe
some
of
these
distances.
But
how
far
is
that
stairwell
unit
from
the
west
property
line
and
the
south
property
line
just
for
impact
purposes.
C
Yeah,
chairman
solberg,
it's
closer
to
the
south
property
line.
If
I
had
to
guess
it's
probably
anywhere
between
25
and
30
feet.
Well,
no,
it's
further
than
that,
maybe
35
to
35-ish
feet
because
you
got
a
five-foot.
You
have
a
five-foot
landscape
yard.
You
have
at
least
a
minimum.
A
20-foot
drive
island,
another
five
feet.
So
my
guess
is
it's
about
35
feet
from
the
the
south
property
line
from
the
west
line.
It
is
a
significant
distance.
E
What
a
skilled
staff
we
have
here
just
going
back
to
the
sign
setback
again,
the
the
the
intent
of
that-
and
I
think
you
maybe
already
answered
this,
but
the
intent
of
the
sign
setback-
is
that
more
of
a
nuisance
thing
or
is
it
a
traffic
safety
thing
where
you
don't
want?
If
a
car
leaves
the
road
you
don't
want
them
hitting
that
thing.
C
That's
100
feet,
chairman
solberg,
thank
you
to
the
west
line.
I
mean
I'd,
say
it's
a
combination
of
things.
I
mean
we're
not
often
processing
signage
for
fire
stations
or
for
city
hall
or
for
whatever,
so
you
could
argue
that
these
regulations
are
drafted
and
intended
for
more
commercial
purpose,
and
I
wouldn't
disagree
with
you
there.
C
The
point
we
would
make
is
that
certainly
we
want
to
hold
ourselves
accountable
to
the
same
regulations
that
we
impose
upon
the
private
market,
but
in
addition
to
that,
when
we
look
at
reasons
to
use
flexibility
when
there's
a
code
complying
alternative,
that's
when
we're
more
hesitant
to
look
to
that
tool.
So
that's
that's
just
what
informs
staff's
perspective
on
that.
As
I
said,
there's
no
mean
spirit,
or
you
know
is,
is
informing
our
perspective.
It
just
has
to
do
with
kind
of
what
our
profession
demands.
To
be
honest,
sure.
E
C
Yeah,
so
the
the
previous
action
that
the
planning
commission
and
city
council
went
went
to
work
on,
I
think
it
wrapped
up
in
august,
but
maybe
at
planning
commission
on
july
22nd.
I
believe,
but
basically
what
the
the
pd
ordinance
the
plan
development
ordinance
has
limitations
on
certain
aspects
of
what
types
of
flexibility
you
can
request,
which
was
more
relevant
or
pertinent
to
this
discussion
tonight
actually
had
to
do
with
floor
area
ratio.
C
There
were
some
limitations
for
institutional
uses
that
would
have
limited
the
size
of
this
building,
based
on
the
amount
of
land
area
that
can
have.
I
think
you
guys
are
familiar
with
far
and
what
that
entails.
But
another
thing
that
the
city
did
in
a
in
addition
to
that
far
change
was
that
fire
stations
are
exempt
from
maximum
impervious
surface
requirements
for
non-residential
uses
in
the
r1.
Currently,
the
standard
is
75
percent
maximum
hard
cover
this
site
plan
before
you
this
evening.
I
believe
checks
in
at
right
around
84.
C
E
A
All
right,
mr
johnson,
one
more
question
and
that
just
has
to
do
the
existing
site
has
fencing,
I
believe,
on
the
west
and
south
side.
You
mentioned
something
about
fencing
remaining
in
potential
on-site
with
all
the
major
construction.
I
just
want
to
verify
that,
in
addition
to
the
the
landscaping
and
everything
our
is,
the
proposal
two
includes
some
sort
of
screening,
like
that
on
the
south
and
west
side.
C
The
yeah
thanks
chairman
solberg,
they
are
proposing
that
I
haven't
seen
the
detail
on
what
type
of
fencing
I
assume
it's
a
similar
six
foot,
privacy
fence
fully
opaque,
but
there's
I
haven't
seen
the
full
architectural
set,
and
that's
that
detail
I
think,
is
probably
located
in
there.
The
architect
might
have
an
idea
of
what
type
of
fence
they're
looking
at,
but
I
would
assume
it's
very
similar
to
what's
out
there
today.
A
A
F
Commissioners,
my
name
is
quinn.
Hudson,
I'm
with
the
principal
with
cnh,
architects
and
yeah
I'd
like
to
cover
a
couple
of
things
that
came
up
that
I
maybe
have
some
fuller
answers
on
and
cover
that
and
then
certainly
open
to
any
other
questions.
You
have
interior
lighting,
I'm
just
taking
the
order
that
I
wrote
them
down,
but
interior
lighting
actually
yeah.
F
We
were
very
concerned
and
and
focused
on
sustainability,
and
so
the
design
will
include
vacancy
and
occupancy
sensor
combinations,
so
that
lighting
inside
you
know
would
be
self
turning
us
off
when
not
in
use
and
we're
also
using
relatively
low
lighting
levels,
particularly
in
office
and
in
residential
areas.
The
apparatus
bays
themselves.
We
want
to
make
sure
as
a
public
safety
functional
use
space,
we
want
to
keep
that
safe
for
the
firefighters.
F
Secondly,
in
order
the
I'll
give
some
of
our
thoughts
on
the
monument
sign
and
yeah,
and
maybe
the
chief
can
cover
others
items
as
well,
but
one
of
the
things
that
we
were
looking
at
because
of
the
limited
green
space
that
we
have
particularly
up
along
the
you
know,
84th
and
in
the
corner
of
berman,
that
we
wanted
to
plant
the
green
space
that
we
do
have
relatively
full
to
to
provide
additional
screening
for
parking.
To
the
extent
we
could.
F
The
further
back
that
we
pull
the
monument
sign
from
irwin
assuming
from
84th
street,
requires
any
plantings
there
to
be
lower
and
of
smaller
nature,
so
that
it
does
not
block
the
sign.
You
know
defeating
the
purpose
of
the
you
know
of
having
the
public
announcement
capability,
so
our
intent
of
having
it
further
forward
allows
the
landscaping
behind
it
to
be
of
a
larger
nature.
F
So,
in
addition
to
the
fire
department,
schools
of
public
safety,
announcements,
visibility
as
well,
but
that
that
was
from
design
sense.
One
of
the
things
we
were
looking
at
retaining
wall
does
not
require
tiebacks,
we're
using
the
very
large
format
retaining
wall
block
systems
that
can
go
easily
to
this
height
without
additional
tie
back
and
then
fence
type.
We
are
looking
at
a
six
foot:
high,
solid
fence,
low
maintenance,
type
approach.
We
haven't
picked
a
specific
brand,
but
that's
the
type
of
thing
we're
looking
at.
F
E
F
A
A
I
think
maybe
just
the
one
question
and
commissioner
roman
asked
about
it:
the
sign
over
on
station
three
versus
station
four:
what's
can
you
maybe
explain
a
little
bit
more
about
the
intent
to
that
help?
Us
understand
some
of
that,
since
it's
not
being
used
on
three
yet
and
it's
being
proposed
here
for
four.
F
Well,
the
the
sign
at
three
was
delayed
because
of
the
improvements
on
old
shakopee
road
that
was
undertaken
by
county.
At
the
same
time,
we
were
building
the
station
and
there
was
so
much
variation
in
what
was
going
on
there.
It
just
wasn't:
wasn't
we
weren't
able
to
come
up
with
a
a
solid
plan
to
place
it
there
because
of
what
county
was
doing
and
the
things
that
were
going
on
along
east
86th
as
well?
And
there
was
some
relocation
of
power
lines
and
some
utilities,
so
there
was
a
lot
going
on
there.
F
G
A
E
F
F
Kind
of
up
in
front
in
people's
minds
so
like
for,
for
instance,
this
year
with
the
drought
conditions
we
had
and
and
open,
burning
and
and
fire
situation.
So
we
are
fortunate
in
that
our
customer
base
never
leaves
us
without
a
need
to
try
to
further
their
education
about
fire
use
and
fire
safety.
So
we
that's
the
purpose
of
it.
It's
more
than
just
one
week
a
year,
we'd
like
to
jog
people's
memory.
More
often.
E
A
You
better
turn
my
microphone
back
on.
Thank
you
chief
appreciate
that
I
have
one
additional
question,
but
it's
not
for
you.
It
goes
back
to
staff.
I
don't
know
if
mr
hansen's
online
and
just
to
answer
the
question
that
commissioner
cookdown
had
asked
about
the
sight
lines
for
the
the
sign
itself
and
if
that's
in
the
in
the
clear
view
triangle,
I
don't
know
if
mr
hansen,
if
you
can
pipe
in.
B
C
A
A
B
H
C
The
thank
you
for
the
question
wow.
Thank
you
for
the
question.
Ma'am,
the
the
got
our
attention,
the
enclosure
on
the.
If
I
can
pull
up
the
let's
get
out
of
this
mode
here,
I
can
pull
the
side
plan
up
again
this,
and
this
is
a
good
look
at
it.
This
is
the
south
side
here
this
enclosure
right
here.
It's
the
end
of
my
I'll
use,
my
mouse
I'll
go
back
to
the
sight
plane.
Is
it
this
enclosure
here
on
the
southwest
corner
of
the
site?
That's
seven
feet
from
the
west
property
line.
C
C
H
C
F
Yeah,
that's
one
of
our
severe
weather
sirens.
We
have
22
of
them
in
the
city
and
they're
plotted
out
so
that
we
get
as
good
of
coverage
in
the
city
as
we
can
and
they
are
loud
for
people
who
live
close,
but
I
always
get
just
as
many
calls
from
people
who
live
farther
away
that
complain.
They
don't
hear
them.
So
it's
kind
of
a
fine
balance,
but
we
we
are
planning
to
relocate
it
somewhere
on
that
site.
As
part
of
the
it's
part
of
the
project.
H
Sorry,
oh
our
granddaughter
was
over
the
first
of
the
month
and
she
said
grandma
today's
the
day
the
siren's
gonna
go
off
at
one
o'clock
and
we
were
gonna
cut
grass
back
there.
So
she
said:
well,
we
better
get
going
and
get
that
grass
cut
and,
and
so
we
were
and
then
we
got
in
the
house
and
siren
went
off
she
said
see.
I
had
it
all
planned.
That's.
A
H
B
A
I
thank
you.
This
is
ken
bolson.
I
live
just
north
of
the
fire
station
on
johnson
circle
and,
mr
chairman,
I
appreciate
the
conversation
that
most
of
the
questions
I
have
have
already
been
answered,
but
I
have
one
thing
I'd
like
to
propose.
I
know
that
there's
the
likelihood
that
the
minimum
count
for
trees
will
not
be
met
and
that
there's
the
ability
to
do
a
essentially
a
buyout
of
that
to
locate
trees
elsewhere.
A
If
something
like
that
is
done,
I
would
encourage
consideration
of
planting
those
trees
across
the
street
at
wanda
miller
park
to
keep
them
in
that
same
proximity
rather
than
elsewhere
in
the
city,
but
otherwise
I
think
my
other
questions
have
been
addressed
all
right.
Thank
you,
mr
bolson.
I
appreciate
that
information.
Mr
johnson,
can
you
attest
to
that.
C
Yeah,
thank
you
chairman
solberg.
There
thank
you
to
the
caller
for
bringing
that
issue.
They
may
have
read
through
some
of
our
staff
notes
on
an
earlier
version
of
the
plans
that
was
short
on
the
tree
count.
The
more
recent
updated
landscape
plan
does
have
a
code
complying
amount
of
trees
now,
so
they
would
not
be
held
or
required
to
do
a
fee
in
the
planting
or
plant
trees
elsewhere,
but
certainly
more
trees.
The
better,
I
always
say.
A
F
F
So
I
guess
my
only
request
would
be
that
as
we
get
a
little
close
with
landscaping
since
I
live
right
next
door
and
will
be
affected
by
be
a
fence
or
whatever
maybe
some
input,
or
at
least
chance
for
conversation
with
the
landscape,
architects,
on
some
options
on
that
buffer
there
and
maybe
how
it
I
can
tie
it
in
nicely
with
some
landscaping.
I
have
planned
for
the
front
of
the
house
other
than
that.
That's.
F
F
A
A
D
Roman,
thank
you,
mr
chair,
and
I
guess
I
realized.
Maybe
I
should
have
asked
this
when
we
were
in
discussion,
but
I
want
to
follow
up,
and
perhaps
mr
hudson
can
share
the
what
are
the
testing
requirements
for
the
generator?
How
frequently
can
that
expected
to
be
tested,
absent
a
situation
where
power
has
failed
and
it
needs
to
run
for
a
longer
period
of
time.
F
Chair
commissioner,
roman,
the
generators
is
typically
tested
once
a
month
that
can
be
scheduled
on
a
clock,
and
that
would
certainly
be
typically
done
during
the
middle
of
the
day
to
minimize
the
impacts
of
that
testing.
And
then
the
additional
usage
is
just
literally
when
the
power
is
off
extended
used
to
say
you
know
say
it's
off
for
a
while.
It
doesn't
really
require
additional
testing.
Based
on
that
that.
F
D
Practical
with
my
understanding
of
that
in
my
place
of
work
as
well,
so
hopefully
that
provides
some
insight
to
the
members
of
the
public
who
ask
that
question
my
observations
on
this.
You
know
I.
I
know
that
this
fire
station
is
old.
It's
near
my
house
and
the
coyotes
are
ready
when
every
time
they
go
out
the
coyotes
respond
as
well.
So
perhaps
you
know
bigger
trucks
more
more
coyotes.
I
appreciate
the
comment
about
occupancy
sensing
lighting.
D
As
far
as
the
sign
thing
question,
I
you
know,
that's
not
a.
I
don't
find
the
sign
to
be
essential
to
the
the
facility.
You
know
we're
not
we're
not
a
furniture
store
competing
with
another
furniture
store.
You
know
people
are
not
shopping
for
other
fire
stations,
so
you
know
the
15
foot
setback
I'm
comfortable
with
the
standard,
given
that
we
don't
have
a
sign
now
we're
not
taking
away
from
what
we
had
before.
D
D
It's
just
about
what
kind
of
a
precedent
we
might
be
setting
again,
we
need
fire
stations,
we
need
good
fire
stations,
I
know
we're
heading
in
the
direction
of
a
full-time,
professional
fire
force
or
some
sort
of
a
live-in
fire
force,
and
I
support
this
project.
Those
are
my
primary
concerns
on
this
one.
A
A
I
certainly
understand
the
fire
chiefs
desire
to
have
messages
on
it,
although
it
seems
like
they're
relatively
rare,
so
I
think
that's
that's
not
out
of
the
question
to
be
able
to
have
the
sign
in
the
proper
location
as
far
as
flagpole
and
and
screening.
I
I
understand
that's
an
issue,
but
I'm
I'm
a
little
bit
worried
that
you
have
a
sign
in
in
the
corner
coming
out
of
a
residential
area
that
could
be
distracting
for
drivers
as
well,
so
more
so
than
maybe
cars
parked
in
the
parking
lot.
A
So,
but
beyond
that,
as
far
as
the
planned
development,
I
think,
in
my
mind
you
know
to
commissioner
roman's
point:
you
know
is
this:
a
question
of
anything
can
come
in
and
really
it
comes
back
to
the
the
public
benefit
to
me,
and
I
think
here
with
a
fire
station,
I
think,
by
all
means
necessary.
What
we're
saying
is
we
need
a
modern
facility
and
in
order
to
achieve
that
and
the
benefit
that
it
provides,
we
have
to
provide
some
flexibility
in
some
cases.
A
That
doesn't
mean
we
need
to
provide
all
flexibility,
I'm
a
I'll
buy
off
on
some
of
the
setbacks.
Although
I
could
sit,
I
would
wonder
if
you
couldn't
make,
for
instance,
the
front
setback
you
know
or
two
feet
less
and
and
be
able
to
to
still
meet
the
needs
of
the
fire
station.
But
that's
I'm
not
the
architect
of
this,
and
I
do
believe
that
as
it's
designed,
it
does
provide
the
benefit
to
the
community.
So
those
are
my
comments.
Other
commissioners,
commissioner
cookton.
E
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
I
can
get
comfortable
with
the
plan
development
to
your
point,
mr
chair,
because
we
get
discretion
that
that
gives
me
a
comfort
level
that
the
next
guy
can't
just
come
in
and
do
something
similar
if
there's
not
a
public
benefit
and
so
being
that
we
get
a
large
amount
of
discretion
on
a
plant
development
flexibility.
E
I
I
can
be
comfortable
with
it
in
regards
to
the
sign,
I
could
be
convinced
of
the
five
feet,
but
I
think
some
good
points
have
been
made
and
I
can
support
keeping
it
at
15
feet
to
your
point.
An
led
sign
in
the
evening
is
is:
is
plenty
visible,
whether
it's
10
feet
or
15
feet?
If
all
of
our
other
signs
are
15
feet,
I've
definitely
noticed
the
other
two
signs
on
that
street,
and
so
I'm
I'm
comfortable
with
the
15
feet
as
well.
E
G
G
I
think
you're
going
to
be
able
to
see
it
on
84th,
regardless,
if
you
are
5
feet
or
15
feet
set
back
there
other
than
that
very
supportive
appreciative
of
the
public
for
coming
in
and
providing
their
insight
into
what
their
experience
is
like
with
the
current
station
and
the
hopes
and
dreams
for
this
great
new
station
that
is
before
us.
So
I
am
I'm
in
support.
A
A
D
Thank
you,
mr
chair.
One
other
item
I
forgot
to
mention.
I
didn't
jot
it
down
on
my
list
here
is
you
know?
Certainly
the
project
will
be
designed
to
whatever
standards,
whatever
fits,
but
given
how
much
we
are
moving
the
station
significantly
to
the
west.
I
would
encourage
the
architects
and
and
the
staff
to
find
out
ways
to
be
creative
and
generous
with
what
that
barrier
is
like
to
the
west.
We
are
coming
a
lot
closer
to
that
home.
A
All
right,
thank
you,
mr
commissioner,
roman
and
I
would
just
add
one
more
thing
just
based
on
the
public
comment
tonight
and
about
the
noise
and
vibration
is
just
as
a
good
neighbor
chief
to
maybe
do
the
rounds
with
the
neighbors
to
find
out.
What's
the
best
time,
not
just
assume
everybody
is
away
from
work
or
awake
in
the
middle
of
the
day.
So
thank
you
all
right,
commission
members.
G
A
Commissioner,
albrecht
with
a
second
commission
members,
we
have
a
motion
and
a
second
in
front
of
us
to
recommend
approval
of
an
ordinance,
rezoning,
4201
west
84th
street
from
r1
to
r1pd.
Are
there
any
further
discussions,
not
seeing
any
all
those
in
favor
say:
aye
aye
all
right
motion
passes
moving
on.
Is
there
a
another
motion,
commissioner?
Albrecht.
G
Having
been
able
to
make
the
required
findings,
I
moved
to
recommend
approval
of
preliminary
and
final
development
plans
for
a
new,
approximately
25
thousand
square
foot
fire
station,
replacing
existing
fire
station
number
four
located
at
4201
west
84th
street,
subject
to
the
conditions
and
code
requirements
attached
to
the
staff
report.
Thank.
A
You,
commissioner,
obrecht,
is
there
a
second
second
commissioner,
roman
with
a
second
all
right?
Commission
members,
we
have
a
motion
and
second
in
front
of
us
to
make
the
to
move,
to
recommend
approval
of
the
preliminary
and
final
development
plans
for
a
new,
approximately
twenty
five
thousand
square
foot
fire
station,
replacing
existing
station
number
four
located
at
4201,
west
84th
street,
subject
to
the
conditions
and
code
requirements
attached
to
the
staff
report.
Is
there
any
further
discussion?
A
All
those
in
favor,
say:
aye
aye
motion
passes,
and
this
item
will
now
move
forward
to
the
october
25th
city
council
meeting
as
a
public
hearing.
Thank
you.
Everybody
moving
on
to
item
number
two,
which
is
considering
approval
of
the
draft
july
22nd
and
august
5th
planning,
commission
meeting
synopsis,
and
I
know
for
a
fact
I
was
not
here
for
either
of
those,
so
I
will
abstain
from
the
voting,
but
commission
members
who
might
get
to
it
quicker
than
me
may
know
who
was
present.
A
B
A
D
A
Commission
members,
we
have
a
motion
and
second
in
front
of
us
to
continue
both
the
july
22nd
and
august
5th
planning
commission
synopsis
any
further
discussion
on
that,
not
seeing
any
all
those
in
favor
say:
aye
aye,
all
right
planning,
commission
synopsis
have
been
continued
to
our
next
planning
commission
meeting
all
right
third
item
election
of
planning,
commission
officers
and
commission
members,
and
what
we
have
informally
discussed
in
the
past
is
that
we
would
like
all
planning
commission
members
to
be
available
for
voting
on
that.
So
I
would
entertain
a
motion
what.
A
Indefinitely
all
right,
thank
you!
Is
there
a
second
second
all
right
planning,
commission
members,
we
have
a
motion
to
continue
indefinitely
the
election
of
the
planning
commission
officers.
Is
there
any
further
discussion,
not
seeing
any
all
those
in
favor
say:
aye,
aye,
aye,
all
right.
Moving
on
to
our
fourth
item
tonight,
planning
commission
policy
and
issues
update
mr
marker
guard.
Would
you
please
give
us
an
update
on
that.
B
B
B
Just
today,
we
learned
that
meeting
will
shift
to
fully
virtual,
so
you'll
be
getting
a
revised
webex
link
for
that
meeting,
so
it
will
be
fully
virtual
and
then
looking
forward
to
future
planning.
Commission
meetings
next
meeting
is
october
7th
and
we
have
one
item:
one
development
item
on
the
agenda:
public
hearing
on
the
redevelopment
at
southtown
center,
the
hi-v
site
and
so
just
one
item
on
october,
7th
and
then
on
october
14th.