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From YouTube: Boulder City Council Study Session 10-10-19
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A
I
think
we
are
ready
to
begin
Boulder
City
Councils
the
study
session
for
October
10th
2019.
We
have
two
issues:
the
first
one,
the
boulder
police
task
force,
Oversight
Committee
and
we
are
thrilled
to
hear
from
you
I,
don't
know
if
there's
any
more,
we
want
to
say
so
other
than
we're.
Gonna
start
with
a
huge.
Thank
you
for
all
the
effort
we
know
has
gone
into
this
and
anyhow
it.
We
look
forward
to
tonight's
conversation.
B
So
good
evening,
everyone
as
we
begin
we
want
to
recognize
that
tonight
we
sit
upon
land
within
the
territories
of
the
Utes
Cheyenne
and
he
no
no
AE
Arapaho
people's
further.
We
acknowledged
that
48
contemporary
tribal
nations
are
historically
tied
to
the
lands
that
make
up
the
state
of
Colorado.
I
would
like
to
ask
our
taskforce
colleagues
to
stand
up
and
introduce
themselves.
Please.
G
H
B
J
B
Our
last
visit
to
Council
was
on
September
10th.
If
you
recall,
during
our
last
update,
we
reviewed
how
the
task
force
was
initiated,
who
we
are
and
our
shared
vision
of
an
oversight
model,
one
that
creates
a
system
of
transparency,
timeliness,
accountability,
trust,
justice
and
equity.
It
is
our
desire
to
make
communities
of
color
safer
and
bolder,
build
trust
with
police
and
reduce
bias
across
the
organization.
B
Last
time
we
went
over
the
research
in
considerations
that
have
led
us
to
the
recommendations
we
are
bringing
forward
tonight.
We
have
met
with
other
music
municipalities
that
have
police
oversight
models.
We
have
interviewed
members
of
our
own
community,
current
members
of
the
professional
standards
review
panel
psrp
and
representatives
of
the
National
Association
of
civilian
oversight
of
law
enforcement,
also
known
as
Nicole.
There
has
been
at
least
one
member
of
the
boulder
police
department,
and/or
union
president,
each
of
our
meetings
demonstrating
the
necessity
for
collaboration
and
shared
knowledge
as
Task
Force
members.
B
B
When
we
last
came
to
council,
we
were
asked
that,
with
our
upcoming
recommendations,
we
focus
on
three
key
components
within
the
recommended
model
or
models.
The
majority
of
tonight's
presentation
will
focus
on
our
recommendations,
with
an
eye
towards
procedural
improvements
regarding
complaints,
the
role
of
analyzing
trends
and
policy
analysis
and
community
outreach.
B
Other
questions
that
were
asked
by
City
Council
of
its
house
force
were
number
one.
How
does
the
work
of
the
task
force
integrate
with
the
city's
ongoing
race
equity
work,
its
relationship
with
the
government
Alliance
on
race
and
equity
and
the
city's
equity
instruments?
The
answer
to
that
question
was
answered
in
your
memo
number
two.
What
is
a
task
force
considering
with
regard
to
reach
the
future
regional
law
enforcement
outreach
with
the
University
of
Colorado
at
Boulder
and
the
Boulder
County
Sheriff's
Department?
B
The
task
force
was
expressly
analyzed,
asked
to
analyze
an
oversight
model
solely
for
the
city
of
Boulder
police.
We
have
been
notified,
however,
of
other
jurisdictions
that
may
be
interested
in
learning
more
about
what
the
city
is
doing.
Number
three.
Would
we
be
integrating
metrics
into
our
recommendations?
B
The
task
force
assessed
several
metrics
throughout
its
process
to
develop
recommendations,
including
five
years
of
data
on
complaints
against
officers
and
the
outcomes
of
those
internal
affairs
investigations
and
quantifiable
responses
to
our
community
interviews,
all
of
which
can
be
found
attached
to
the
memo.
In
addition,
data-driven
improvements
to
policing
in
Boulder
will
be
an
important
component
of
implementation,
while
the
scope
of
today
of
the
task
force
work
at
this
point
does
not
define
all
of
the
important
metrics
that
will
be
useful
in
the
future.
B
As
we
continued
our
work,
we
identified
two
fundamental
concerns.
We
would
like
to
solve
one
the
boulder
community,
lacking
trust
in
the
police
department
investigating
themselves
and
to
the
fun
down
of
foundational
concerns
with
the
current
psrp,
including
its
role
in
oversight,
a
lack
of
essential
training
and
its
demographic
makeup.
B
Last
time
we
were
here,
we
review
the
common
models
of
oversight
which
include
investigation,
focused
model,
civilian
investigators,
conduct,
independent
investigations
of
complaints
against
police
officers.
They
may
replace
or
duplicate
the
police
internal
affairs
process.
In
this
model,
the
Investigative
office
may
serve
as
an
intake
point
for
complaints
against
police
officers,
conduct
independent
interviews
of
complainants
officers
and
witnesses
and
is
sometimes
governed
by
a
community
board
or
Commission
that
may
hold
hearings,
issue
subpoenas
or
make
findings
on
investigations.
F
Thank
You
Shawn
Ray
for
that
introduction,
I'd
like
to
thank
all
members
of
council
for
being
here
tonight.
We're
very
excited
to
present
these
two
models
to
all
of
you.
So
we
as
a
task
force,
are
going
to
be
recommending
two
different
models
for
consideration
by
Council.
We
will
review
each
model
and
we
will
answer
questions
after
discussing
each
individual
recommendation.
F
As
seen
in
your
memo,
the
majority
of
this
task
force
recommends
a
hybrid
combination
of
a
community
oversight
panel,
and
an
auditor
monitor
shifting
to
this
model
from
the
current
process
would
involve
hiring
a
full-time
professional
auditor,
monitor
reporting
to
the
city
manager's
office,
with
a
possible
future
recommendation
to
amend
the
Charter
and
have
the
position
report
directly
to
the
City
Council.
It
would
also
require
replacing
the
current
psrp
with
a
police
oversight
panel.
F
This
panel
would
comprised
of
eleven
community
members
and
would
be
staffed
by
the
auditor
monitor
and
one
liaison
from
the
police
department.
The
auditor
monitor
and
police
liaison
will
be
non-voting
members
of
this
panel.
Both
the
auditor
monitor
and
the
oversight
panel,
would
not
only
review
internal
investigations
and
make
recommendations.
They
would
also
assess
police
outcomes
broadly
and
recommend
policy
improvements
and
conduct
community
outreach
and
engagement
for
any
police
oversight
model
to
work.
F
The
community
must
have
a
role
in
this
process,
and
that
brings
me
to
the
first
part
of
this
model,
which
is
the
police
oversight
panel.
We
believe
that
having
a
community
panel
is
incredibly
valuable
to
the
police
oversight
process,
because
it
allows
the
community
to
have
a
direct
voice
in
the
affairs
of
their
city,
thereby
building
trust
between
the
oversight
board
and
the
community.
This
panel
will
consist
of
11
community
members.
We
believe
that
11
is
the
appropriate
number
for
this
panel,
because
it
will
help
to
ensure
greater
diversity
among
panel
members.
F
Candidates
for
this
panel
will
be
those
who
possess
strong
ties
to
Boulder
by
either
living
working
or
raising
children
in
the
city
of
Boulder.
The
minimum
age
for
this
panel
will
be
18.
At
least
50%
of
panel
members
will
be
those
who
identify
as
a
person
of
color,
notably
African,
American,
Latin,
X
or
indigenous.
F
In
addition,
the
selection
committee
that
selects
the
members
for
this
police
oversight
panel
will
strive
to
include
a
person
with
a
disability,
a
person
experiencing
homelessness
or
having
lived
such
experience
it
and
identifying,
as
LGBTQ
plus
and/or
a
person
who
has
experienced
incarceration
these
were
thus.
These
were
similar
qualifications
that
made
up
the
candidate
pool
for
this
very
taskforce
and
produced
a
very
diverse
result.
F
The
initial
panel
that
is
selecting
the
first
generation
of
police
oversight
panel
members,
would
be
a
selection
committee
made
up
of
two
PD
oversight:
Task
Force
members
and
three
community
members
that
are
associated
with
nonprofits,
with
a
demonstrated
capacity
to
serve
under-resourced
communities
within
the
city
of
Boulder.
We
would
like
council
to
determine
who
these
nonprofits
would
be
future
selection
committees,
after
that,
first
generation
will
replace
the
PD
oversight
task
force
members
with
to
continuing
panel
members
who
are
not
in
consideration
themselves
and
those
two
panel
members
who
are
replacing
the
PD
oversight.
F
Members
would
also
be
representatives
from
nonprofits
in
this
model,
similar
to
the
recruitment
of
the
Task
Force.
The
city
would
expand
recruitment
and
outreach
to
historically
underrepresented
and
underserved
communities.
The
roles
and
responsibilities
of
this
kelis
Oversight
Panel
will
be
to
review
investigations
and
make
recommendations
regarding
the
disposition
of
the
investigation
and
the
level
of
discipline
that
should
be
sanctioned
once
the
investigation
has
been
completed.
F
This
panel
will
also
make
recommendations
regarding
restorative
justice
practices
to
the
Chief
of
Police.
This
panel
will
also
suggest
policy
improvements
and
innovations
to
the
auditor
monitor
and
the
Chief
of
Police.
The
second
part
of
this
monitor
model
is
the
auditor
monitor.
We
believe
that
the
auditor
monitor
through
taking
in
data
analyzing
that
data
and
making
recommendations
to
the
police
department
can
create
long-term
systemic
change
in
policing
in
a
proactive
way.
The
procedural
they
would
also
be
reviewing
reviewing
investigations.
F
Procedural
improvements
regarding
complaints,
including
levels
of
complaints,
and
how
to
recruit
for
panel
member
members
are
as
follows.
The
auditor
monitor
will
would
be
responsible
for
receiving
all
complaints
generated
from
the
public,
regardless
of
the
initial
submission
source
for
an
internal
complaint.
The
Internal
Affairs
sergeant
will
receive
the
complaint
first
and
then
notify
the
auditor
monitor
of
all
related
processes.
Complaints
could
be
received
online
in
person
at
the
auditor
monitors
office,
which
will
be
located
away
from
the
police
department
or
future
physical
community
drop
boxes
or
by
telephone.
F
The
classification
of
the
complaints
will
be
further
defined
in
partnership
with
the
police
department
and
Auditor
monitor
during
implementation.
If
this
model
is
chosen,
investigative
powers
will
stay
with
the
internal
investigative
sergeant,
and
the
auditor
monitor
can
monitor
and
then
direct
the
investigations
as
it
proceeds.
The
auditor
monitor
will
be
present
through
all
investigations,
regardless
of
complaint
classification,
including
interviews.
They
would
also
have
access
to
all
information
from
the
internal
affairs
sergeant
and
they
may
recommend
best
practices
to
redirect
the
ia
sergeant
through
the
course
of
an
investigation.
F
The
auditor
monitor
will
also
explain
the
disposition
and
discipline
recommendations
of
the
internal
affairs
sergeant
to
the
oversight
panel
in
detail.
The
panel
then
delivers
and
explains
their
recommendations
to
the
police.
Chief,
all
final
discipline
decisions
are
still
left
to
the
police
chief.
We
believe
that
this
model,
through
its
proactive
functions,
can
deliver
foundational
and
ongoing
change
for
the
city
of
Boulder
in
policing.
F
So,
but
now,
I
would
now
like
to
talk
about
the
strengths
of
the
Auditor,
monitor
page
12
of
the
memo
memo
compares
areas
of
strength
for
the
Auditor
monitor
model
with
areas
of
concern.
The
strengths
of
having
an
auditor
monitor
include
that
the
auditor
monitor
is
independent
from
what
is
a
partner
of
the
police
department.
We
believe
that
this
will
give
us
critical
buy-in
from
both
the
community
and
the
police
department
in
order
for
the
community
to
trust
this
board.
F
They
need
it
to
be
independent,
but
in
order
for
the
board
to
work,
it
also
needs
to
work
well
with
the
police
department.
Complaints
from
community
members
can
be
taken
outside
of
the
police
department,
giving
better
community
confidence
in
trust.
In
this
oversight
model,
the
auditor
monitor
will
also
work
in
a
separate
building
from
the
police
department
in
order
to
be
more
accessible
to
the
community.
F
F
There
are
several
strengths
to
the
oversight
panel.
In
this
model
it
increases
community
involvement
and
engagement
and
adds
transparency
to
this
oversight
process
due
to
the
high
cost
of
living
in
Boulder.
The
recommended
qualifications
to
have
strong
ties
rather
than
require
residency,
explicitly
allows
for
greater
diversity
on
this
panel.
Lowering
the
age
requirement
to
18
years
of
age
at
minimum
includes
all
who
can
vote
as
well
as
traditional
college
students
who
are
stakeholders
in
the
boulder
community.
This
panel
will
include
representatives
from
communities
that
have
been
historically
impacted
by
systemic
bias.
F
This
model
includes
more
community
voices
and
is
significantly
more
inclusive
than
the
current
model.
It
also
emphasizes
the
independence
and
role
of
the
future
Auditor
monitor.
That
would
reduce
the
perception
by
some
that
the
police
department
does
not
adequately
investigate
itself.
Finally,
despite
the
concern
regarding
placing
the
responsibility
of
the
Auditor
monitor
with
one
person,
a
task
force
believes
that
the
oversight
panel's
ability
to
contribute
to
their
evaluation
will
add
a
layer
of
accountability
to
this
process.
A
K
For
being
here,
maybe
I
miss
this,
but
with
the
auditor
monitor,
have
any
experience
our
required
experience
as
a
first
responder,
whether
or
not
it's
medic
and
police
fire.
Anything
to
give
them
a
background
to
understand
the
police
side.
I
think.
F
That,
when
we
are
recruiting
for
an
auditor
modder
during
implementation,
experience
like
that
would
be
great
as
well.
In
addition,
we'd
want
them
to
have
experience,
doing
investigations,
experience
working
with
Police
Department's.
We
want
them
that
experience
relating
to
community
outreach
as
well
so
I
think
that
could
be
a
plus
for
an
auditor
monitor.
L
F
M
Sue,
thank
you
for
putting
this
together.
I
think
it's
very
well
thought
out.
So
it
sounds
like
a
very
promising
system
sue.
What
role
would
the
City
Council
play
in
all
of
this?
The
the
the
one
place
I
saw
was
in
selecting
nonprofits.
That
would
provide
representatives
can.
Can
you
just
describe
that
and
any
other
role
the
City
Council
might
have
in
this
whole
system.
So.
F
In
this
model,
the
role
that
we
have
defined
for
City
Council
thus
far
is
that
City
Council
would
select
various
nonprofits
I
believe
we
have
it
at
three
and
then
those
nonprofits
would
send
a
representative
to
this
selection
committee
and
then
they
would
then
hold
interviews
for
police
oversight
panel
members
and
they
would
make
those
selections
and
they
would
then
become
members
of
the
police
oversight
panel.
So
as
of
now,
that
is
the
role
that
we
have
set
out
for
Council
thanks.
M
For
that,
and
do
you
see
so
there's
the
oversight
panel,
or
are
we
imagining
any
kind
of
oversight
of
the
oversight
panel
because
a
lot
of
our
current
structures,
the
the
City
Council,
is
kind
of
where
the
buck
stops?
You
know
like
if
something
in
the
city
organization
isn't
quite
working
out,
we
can
step
in
in
one
way
or
the
other
dude.
Are
you
seeing
any
kind
of
role
of
as
some
kind
of
oversight
for
either
City
Council
or
any
other
group
of
how
this
whole
thing
works
out?
I.
F
A
One
of
the
things
that
you
recommended
is
that
the
task
force
and
the
auditor
monitor
can
make
policy
recommendations.
I
guess
one
question
is:
would
you
want
those
policy
recommendations
to
be
made
to
the
City,
Council
or
I
know
that
they
go
to
the
police
chief,
but
I?
Guess
that
was
one
question
I
had
about
the
role
of
City
Council's
if
things
need
to
be
changed
through
ordinances
or
something
the
mechanism
for
y'all
to
you
all
sorry,
the
new
panel
to
speak
directly
to
us
is
that
envisioned.
F
So
one
of
the
key
factors
in
order
for
any
police
oversight
model
to
work,
is
that
everything
has
to
be
robustly
public
reporting
reported.
So
in
that
phase
of
public
reporting
I
think
it
would
be
good
for
the
panel
to
also
report
their
policy
recommendations
to
Council
or
for
the
oversight
or
for
the
auditor
monitor
to
also
do
that.
I
think
that
could
potentially
be
included
in
the
model
once
we
receive
direction
to
that
as
well.
A
N
Wanted
to
go
back
to
the
auditor
monitor
a
little
bit
about
your
analysis.
I
know
you
guys
went
back
and
looked
at
five
years
worth
of
complaints.
Talk
a
little
bit
about
the
volume
of
work
you
think
the
auditor
or
monitor
might
might
be
engaged
in
in
the
course
of
I'm
trying
to
get
a
grasp
of.
Is
this
a
full-time
position,
three-quarters
position,
standby
position
and
just
try
to
get
yeah
or
two
positions?
Maybe
you
know
I,
don't
know
what
it
is
so
I'm
sure
you
guys
have
kind
of
drilled
into
the
volume.
F
Those
who
were
in
favor
of
this
model
envisioned
it
as
being
a
full-time
position,
because,
in
addition
to
reviewing
all
of
the
that
come
in
and
potentially
being
a
part
of
those
investigations,
we
also
expect
them
to
be
proactively
analyzing
data
and
then
for
crafting
policy
recommendations
in
conjunction
with
the
police
oversight
panel
and
then
on
top
of
all
of
that
holding
public
forums
and
educating
the
people
of
Boulder.
So
we
believe
they
will
have
a
substantial
work
to
do,
and
that
should
be
a
full-time
position
in
our
opinion.
Thank
you.
B
L
Thank
you,
I'm
Sean,
Murray
I.
That
was
my
concern
is
that
this
is
like
a
huge
position
for
one
person,
and
the
last
thing
you
want
to
do
is
burn
out
this
person.
So
I
have
a
question
about
what
is
it
that
I
ICL,
or
that
the
group
and
in
terms
of
council
appointing
them,
did
you
have
a
discussion
about
it,
get
becoming
really
politicized,
or
how
did
you
address
that
so.
F
L
B
Don't
think
that
we've
we've
talked
about
that
in
depth
and
that's
definitely
something
that
we
would
like
to
explore
more
during
implementation.
However,
just
from
the
task
force
experience
with
the
two
staff
members
that
we've
had
the
benefit
of
working
with,
there
is
a
lot
of
additional
responsibilities
that
can
be
passed
on
to
a
support
staff
in
many
ways.
So
I
think
that
that
position
itself
could
be
quite
robust,
but
we
haven't
really
talked
about
the
details.
Thank.
M
B
M
H
And
I
believe
that
the
oversight
taskforce
was
very
knowledgeable
about
the
data
scientists
and
there's
some
information
in
your
report
about
that
as
well.
So
the
plan
right
now
is
that
that
person
would
actually
be
hired
by
the
innovation
and
technology
department,
but
that
their
assignment
would
be
to
work
on
police
data.
H
M
B
Most
of
land-
and
we
didn't
include
this
answer,
but
I
would
like
to
reiterate
this
particular
point.
So
the
task
force
recognizes
that
the
foundation
of
most
police
data
is
rooted
in
and
the
collection
methodology
is
rooted
in
institutionalized
racism
and
white
supremacy.
So
it
is
been
part
of
data
collection
for
a
very
long
time.
B
We
would
like
that
data
collection
person
to
be
able
to
undo
some
of
that
harm
that
has
already
implicitly
ingrained
and
in
that
work
and
I,
think
that
an
anti
bias
approach
to
that
work
would
be
quite
significant,
I
think
it's
a
wonderful
tailing
between
this
particular
role
that
is
being
created
and
this
particular
oversight
model.
Thank.
A
Guess
I
had
another
question
which
is-
and
this
was
mentioned
in
the
memo,
but
I
guess
I
just
want
to
dwell
on
it,
which
is
a
whole
lot
of
the
success
of
the
Auditor.
Monitor
model
depends
on
hiring
a
really
good
auditor,
monitor
person
and
I.
Guess,
given
the
in
a
few
Minh
and
malleability
I
guess,
can
you
speak
to
that
concern
and
how
we
would
make
sure
that
there's
no
checks
and
balances
and
supports
because
there
isn't
the
perfect
person
out
there.
B
I
appreciate
that
concern
and
something
that
we've
also
talked
about
at
length
during
during
our
meetings.
There
may
be
a
perfect,
perfect
person
out
there.
We
have
to
look
for
that
person.
One
of
the
resources
that
we
have
is
Nicole
so
being
able
to
connect
with
our
the
members
of
Nicole
around
the
country.
There
are
maybe
people
who
are
doing
this
current
work
and
other
municipalities
that
would
like
to
shift
and
work
on
a
different
municipality,
a
different
area,
similar
problem
site,
so
I
think
that
in
in
in
that
case,
somebody
can
be
found.
B
So
so,
yes,
I,
think
it's
quite
possible,
and
there
are
resources
that
are
available
to
to
us
to
do
that.
Search
I
have
written
college
admissions,
know
what
it's
like
to
do:
a
search
for
a
very
prominent
position,
and
sometimes
that
takes
time,
and
we
would
prefer
that
it
not
be
rushed
that
the
person
that
we
do
find
is
somebody
that
we
all
feel
very
strongly
can
can
do
the
work
for
the
city
of
Boulder.
A
O
I
have
some
questions
about
some
of
the
numbers,
but
I
would
like
to
ask
those
after
you
finished
with
both
models,
but
in
the
I
was
wondering
if
you
could
say
something,
and
maybe
I
missed
it,
that
it
was
in
here.
It's
a
really
comprehensive
report.
Thank
you
for
that.
But
what
did
some
of
the
Minority
Report
say
in
terms
of
choosing
this
model?
You
said
it
was
not
unanimous.
O
So
are
there
any?
Would
you
share
some
of
that
with
us?
Can
you
repeat
the
question?
What
what
is
what
were
the
persons
who
did
not
agree
with
this
particular
model?
What
were
some
of
the?
What
was
some
of
the
dissenting
thoughts
and
and
I
thought
it
might
have
something
to
do
with
this
very
thing
about
finding
that
person
and
having
so
much
reside
in
that
one
particular
individual,
but
I
just
wondered
if
you
could
share
some
of
that
with
us.
I
think.
J
There
was
a
handful
of
things
that
came
up
as
concerns
one
being
perception
working
intimately
with
the
police
department,
and
the
investigation
would
inevitably
create
bonds
and
relationships
and
bias
and
I
think
that
what
I
heard
from
the
community
members
that
I
spoke
to
in
this
process.
That
was
really
concerning
that
it
was
just
too
close
and
having
it
all
on
one
person
to
say
there
was
no
bias
like
it.
Just
didn't,
feel
good.
So
that
was
one
of
the
big
ones
and.
B
There
is
support
of
both
models
from
the
task
force
members
and
we're
presenting
you
options,
because
I
was
one
of
the
opportunities
that
we
had
to
present
to
you,
so
I
think
getting
into
the
nuts
and
bolts
of
concerns
of
a
particular
task
force.
Members,
probably
isn't
all
that
relevant
because
we're
leading
with
our
strengths-
and
we
think
that
both
of
these
models
are
fairly
robust
and
could
serve
the
city
very
well.
So.
O
I'm,
just
some
preferred
the
other
model
is
basically
what
you're
saying
sure,
okay
and
in
terms
of
numbers,
what
I
was
talking
about
was
I
think
my
pages
may
be
different,
because
this
is
printed
out,
but
the
summary
of
the
PD
oversight,
task
force,
information
requests
and
the
numbers
of
investigations
that
came
in,
but
I
think
rather
I
would
ask
about
those
at
the
end
of
the
presentation.
Okay,.
L
B
I
think
that
there,
as
I
presented
earlier,
there
are
many
different
models
out
there
and
communities
to
do
choose
to
do
a
hybrid
if
the
council
so
chooses
after
reviewing
both
of
these
models
that
you
would
like
to
pull
one
element
from
one
to
add
to
another:
I
think
that
is
really
your
purview
again.
We
are
leading
with
our
strengths
and
we
feel
very
strongly
that
there
are
some
amazing,
beautiful
elements
that
would
serve
very
well
depending
on
which
model
you
choose
and
we
can
borrow
from
the
other
one
that
we
don't
choose
it's
great.
F
In
one
comment,
I
just
wanted
to
make
was
that
when
we
were
designing
this
model,
we
did
not
feel
that
it
would
all
rest.
On
the
auditor
monitor.
We
felt
that
this
police
oversight
panel
was
going
to
be
institutionally
strong
enough
in
and
of
itself,
when
it's
reviewing
investigations
that
it's
also
going
to
be
quite
a
substantial
position
as
well,
and
when
designing
it,
we
made
sure
actually
that
the
auditor
monitor
would
not
just
be
the
fulcrum
point
of
the
entire
model.
J
I'd
like
to
take
to
take
a
moment
to
thank
everyone
again
for
being
here,
after
hundreds
of
hours
of
collaboration
with
my
peers
on
this
task
force
and
hearing
all
the
voices
from
community
members
that
informed
me
through
this
process,
informed
us
through
this
process.
I
just
want
to
say
thank
you.
J
So
some
of
the
strengths
of
the
independent
investigation
model
I
mean
independence,
is
one
for
sure.
Can
you
slide
being
able
to
analyze
trends
and
policies?
Sort
of
similar
to
what
you
heard
previously,
and
the
emphasis
on
include
improved
community
outreach,
bridging
the
gap
between
the
police
department
and
the
community
and
the
perceptions
going
both
ways.
J
The
police
department
leads
on
to
the
panel
being
able
to
inform
decisions
and
educate
on
policy
as
well
as
complaints
being
external
from
the
police
department.
So
if
people
are
not
comfortable
going
to
the
police
department
to
make
a
complaint
having
that
safe
space
that
they
can
go,
make
a
complaint.
J
J
Sorries
on
their
own
page
here
so
reduction
of
the
department
members
on
the
panel.
We
believe
that,
while
representation
is
important,
that
this
is
a
community
centric
model
and
it's
important
to
have
the
majority
of
the
members
be
members
of
the
community
building
trust
through
that
community
voice,
as
well
as
having
the
informed
voice
of
the
police
representative.
J
Pardon
me
so
I
guess
the
recruitment
would
be
very
similar
to
what
you
heard
before
with
the
different
like
I,
don't
want
to
be
redundant,
but
the
recruitment
of
the
panel
was
very
similar
to
what
you
heard
in
the
panel.
We,
we
only
said
nine
members.
We
like
the
odd
number
and
the
for
the
size
of
the
city
to
have
adequate
representation.
We
felt
that
nine
was
adequate
and
then
I
have
some
information
on
the
investigative
group
that
I
was
had
in
mind.
J
For
the
sake
of
that
transparency
and
that
independence
there's
a
group
in
California,
that's
investigated
more
than
four
hundred
officer
involved.
Shootings
they've
been
doing
this
for
15
years.
They're
trusted
nationally,
as
well
as
in
timeliness,
which
was
a
concern
and
having
an
investigative
model.
So
they've
worked
in
conjunction
with
police
departments
all
over
the
country
and.
M
J
M
M
J
I
think
the
independent
community
liaison
would
have
a
little
bit
more
of
a
community
building
role.
So
instead
of
shadowing
investigations,
they
are
researching
trainings
that
are
effective
in
similar
communities.
They
are
creating
activities
to
engage
the
police
department
with
the
community
and
really
just
creating
more
of
a
sense
of
knowledge
like
knowing
who
you're,
policing
and
who's
protecting.
You.
J
M
J
Not
positive,
this
is
the
one
I
spoke
to
because
they
have
the
greatest
reputation
nationally
and
have
had
successful
interstate
relationships
like
Portland,
Oregon,
King,
County
Washington,
so
they've
done
work
and
been
able
to
demonstrate
a
timely
manner.
I'm
sure
there
is
more
than
one
group
and
through
employed
implementation,
I
think
would
be
beneficial
to
have
more
than
one
to
reach
out
to
as
well.
O
J
Person
would
be
sort
of
heading
up
the
board
to
the
community
panel,
so
they
would
communicate
there
really
there's
a
flowchart
I
believe
in
your
attachments.
That
kind
of
demonstrates
what
they
would
do,
but
as
well
as
heading
up
the
community
board,
their
job
would
be
creating
I
mean
they
have
like
coffee
with
a
cop
and
kickball
leagues
and
stuff
like
that
and
really
just
making.
It
feel
like
more
of
a
connected
community
and
I.
O
J
Demonstrating
strong
ties,
but
we
were
looking
at,
is
then
the
amount
of
city
employees
that
can't
afford
to
live
here
the
amount
of
people
who
bring
their
kids
to
school.
Here
you
know,
there's
so
many
members
that
I
mean
Boulder
is
expensive
and
I.
Don't
think
that
that's
representative
of
people
that
are
stakeholders
in
the
community,
so
we
didn't
put
a
number
on
it,
but
they.
O
J
O
J
O
O
Age,
yes,
we
566
for
the
yeah
168,
so
I
was
wondering
about
those
numbers
and
whether
or
not
you
thought
they
had
been
underreported
over-reported.
If
you
did
any
comparisons
to
other
cities,
for
example,
the
there
were
19
total
class
1
investigations
between
2014
and
2018
and
then
internally
that
those
comprised
58
percent
and
I'm
assuming
I,
don't
know
if
anyone
from
the
police
department
or
if
you
could
tell
me
the
I-
mean
I'm
assuming
internal
investigations
mean
that
those
complaints
happen
within
the
police
department
about
that
person.
O
H
O
B
O
B
This
information
was
provided
to
the
task
force
members
and
we
did
the
summary
analysis
for
you.
So
in
terms
of
in
terms
of
the
allegations
of
bias,
we
found
that
universally
and
not
just
in
the
city
of
Boulder,
but
certainly
in
other
municipalities
as
well,
that
many
people
would
not
feel
comfortable
claiming
bias
for
fear
of
their
lives.
Retaliation.
B
As
far
as
the
final
outcomes
are
concerned,
the
outcomes
and
those
the
names
sustained,
not
sustained
exonerated
unfounded,
are
designated
by
the
city
of
Boulder,
Police
Department,
and
so
it
is
the
chief
of
police
who
makes
the
final
disposition
on
the
particular
matter.
So
again,
I
can't
speak
for
the
city
of
Boulder
police,
but
the
task
force
felt
in
many
cases
without
knowing
the
actual
details
of
those
particular
complaints
that
you
know,
a
sustained
percentage
of
56
percent
is
actually
fairly
fairly
strong.
B
Anecdotally,
but
also
from
personal
experience,
they're
members
of
the
task
force,
who
have
direct
relations
to
the
police,
who
have
been
incarcerated,
who
have
had
unpleasant
interactions
with
and
so
from
lived
experience.
I
think
we
could
also
claim
that,
yes,
there,
there
is
a
fear
in
some
cases,
for
some
people
a
certainly
a
person
of
color,
where
you
may
not
put
that
forward
for
fear
of
retaliation
or
whatever
I
think.
J
O
I
was
not
on
the
council
when
that
report
came
in
and
I
have
not
read
it
and
one
of
the
questions
I
have
is
it
keeps
being
referred
to,
but
it
never
says
what
it
was
that
it
did
recommend,
and
since
this
is
a
study
session
and
it's
for
the
record
in
terms
of
giving
more
information
rather
than
less
I,
think
I
mean
I
do
what
did
it
was
say?
There's.
H
U.S.
USA,
Today
I
think
comparing
the
number
of
arrests
and
distinguishing
between
those
arrests
of
African,
Americans
versus
whites
and
and
comparing
it
with
a
demographic
data
in
the
city,
and
it
said
that
African
Americans
were
arrested
at
a
rate
five
times
higher
than
the
actual
demographic
data
would
have
predicted
for
the
city.
H
O
H
Whoever
is
there,
they
have
some
training
obligations
that
they
go
through
and
they
have
been
learning
about
the
police
department
and
providing
community
input,
but
it
it
has
it's
not
an
oversight
panel.
By
any
stretch
of
the
imagination,
it
is
a
panel
that
learns
about
the
police
department
and
gives
feedback
based
on
community
sentiment
of
these
12
people.
A
Which
is
one
of
the
things
that
Hillary
report
said
is
you're
not
collecting
good
enough
data
to
tell
whether
or
not
you
actually
have
a
bias,
and
so
a
bunch
of
the
recommendation
or
I
should
say,
but
several
had
to
do
with.
You
need
to
collect
finer,
grained
data
and
things
like
that,
and
so
a
lot
of
the
effort
went
into
providing
better
police
stop
data,
which
is
now
provoking
a
lot
of
very
useful
discussions
about
okay.
Now,
what
do
we
need
to
fix?
O
B
We
actually
haven't
met
with
them
at
all.
During
during
our
discussions,
we
did.
As
the
memo
indicates,
we
did
meet
with
the
psrp,
both
the
community
member
side
and
the
police
department
side,
four
out
of
six
members
from
each
it's
a
12
person
group,
four
people
from
each
side
actually
came,
and
one
of
the
things
that
we
wanted
to
put
a
finer
point
on.
B
Is
that
not
only
was
the
the
psrp
community
side
board
not
diverse,
they
were
all
white
and
highly
educated,
so
lived
experience
of
the
people
that
they're
actually
looking
to
to
oversee
in
terms
of
police
interaction.
The
lived
experience
was
and
wasn't
there
and
that's
something
that
the
task
force
feels
would
be
better
served
in
both
of
the
models
that
we
presented
tonight
by
having
a
very
diverse
oversight
board
or
panel,
just
like
the
taskforce
was
convened
to
represent
and
be
more
reflective
of
the
community.
Thank.
O
B
A
A
K
I'm
just
heading
home,
so
I
don't
get
any
more.
Second
I
I
think
I'll
just
probably
put
out
an
email
at
some
point
here
so,
but
thank
you
guys
for
the
work
and
all
your
time
and
energy
that
you've
spent
doing
this
well.
B
B
So,
depending
on
the
outcomes
of
this
study
session,
the
task
force
working
with
the
city
staff
were
directed
to
bring
forward
policy
changes
for
council
consideration
before
the
end
of
October.
The
tentative
schedule
is
October
15th,
first
reading
of
recommended
improvements
and
October
29th
second
reading
of
recommended
improvements.
The
task
force
wants
to
point
out
that
the
work
being
asked
takes
most
communities
18
months
to
two
years
for
successful
implementation.
B
The
current
timeline
leaves
a
little
time
between
the
study
session
tonight
and
the
currently
scheduled
first
reading
on
October
15th.
Given
the
level
of
detail
required
to
consider
and
the
complexity
of
implementation,
the
Task
Force
recommends
that
the
council
adopt
an
ordinance
that
broadly
codify
as
councils,
preferred
oversight
model
selected
here
tonight.
We
also
recommend
that
members
of
the
current
task
force,
who
wish
to
continue
serving
to
work
in
partnership
with
the
staff
from
the
city
manager's
office
and
Police
Department,
to
finalize
implementation
details
and
bring
back
any
additional
and
more
detailed
future
ordinance
changes.
B
B
N
Probably
a
process
question
that
relates
to
this,
because
we
only
have
five
days
to
the
first
reading,
which
you
observed
and
I
think
the
public
hearings
can
be
on
the
second
reading
site,
we're
thinking.
So
is
there
one
way?
One
way
we
could
do
this
could
be
to
pass
an
ordinance
that
contemplates
both
models
on
first
reading,
I'd
really
like
to
hear
from
the
community.
A
A
Well,
what
left,
to
my
mind
and
I,
should
maybe
rest
with
that
question
a
little
bit
more,
but
is
that
we
had
asked
you
guys
have
made
a
recommendation
on
one
other,
two
and
I
guess
that's
the
part
I
want
to
sit
with.
Is
we're
leaning
heavily
on
on
the
panel
to
bring
us
for
the
task
force
to
bring
us
forth
a
recommendation?
A
What's
the
idea
that
we
would
give
it
great
weight
and
so
I
guess
I
want
to
make
sure
we
do
that,
and
then
the
public
can
reflect
on
that,
whether
or
not
that
works,
but
I
guess
I'm,
not
sure.
If-
and
this
is
kind
of
you
guys
gave
us
kind
of
both,
but
with
the
recommendation
and
I
guess
I
want
to
explore
that
because
if
you're,
if
you
have
a
strong
recommendation,
I
think
that's
very
telling
and
maybe
we
should
say,
hey
public.
A
N
I'm
also
wondering
there's
a
hybrid
between
those
two.
In
other
words,
we
could
express
our
preference
tonight
so
I'm,
not
I,
don't
want
to
shy
away
from
that
I'm
I'm
just
wondering
if
we
want
to
keep
a
little
flexibility,
because
who
knows
some
of
you
guys
even
had
different
differences
of
opinion
that
we
may
hear
from
from
the
public
and
they
may
change
our
minds
or
they
may
may
not,
and
we
can
certainly
express
our
strong
preference.
N
M
Look
McKinley
drill
in
a
little
bit
more
I
mean
it
because
I
feel,
like
the
preference
expressed
in
the
packet
and
the
memo
was
a
little
stronger
for
the
first
choice.
Then
you
all
have
presented
tonight
so
because
we're
coming
reading
the
packet,
my
impression
was
I
think
we
we
have
a
favorite
here
and
tonight
you
presented
them
as
two
kind
of
equal
alternatives.
Do
you
want
to
speak
to
that?
A
little
bit
more
I.
J
Think
one
of
the
beautiful
things
about
collaboration
is
the
difference
of
opinion.
So
while
there
was
a
majority
there
was
also
people
that
felt
very
strongly
that
if
there
was
not
independence,
then
it
was
kind
of
moved
for
some
of
the
members.
So
yeah,
that's
why
we
have
two
recommendations,
but.
B
Think
that
we
during
many
task
force
meetings
wrestled
with
that
same
sort
of
idea.
That
was
it
the
wishes
of
City
Council
to
only
receive
one
recommendation
based
upon
the
research
that
we
had
done
I'm
over
the
many
months
that
we
were
together
or
did
Council
want
to
have
options
so
that
you
got
to
choose.
B
B
A
J
L
I
I
just
have
to
say
I'm,
so
impressed
with
how
you
guys
have
all
functioned
with
each
other
and
having
having
worked
in
bodies.
I
always
call
it
in
the
sandbox
and
you
always
have
to
come
up
with
something
that
is
for
the
greater
good.
So
I
really
appreciate
how
much
you've
looked
into
the
issues.
How
objectively
you've
looked
at
those
issues
and
how
you've
respected
everybody
in
the
group?
L
Would
there
be
you
and
I'm
not
on
CAC,
so
I,
don't
know
how
it's
totally
scheduled
right
now.
Would
there
be
an
opportunity
to
hear
from
the
public
so
that
you
know
on
the
first
reading
so
that
at
the
second
reading,
if
there
was
a
path,
we
were
going
down,
that
maybe
was
something
that
the
task
force
thought
did
not
honor
your
work.
You
could
have
that
opportunity
to
come
back
to
us,
I
mean
I.
B
So
so,
yes,
all
of
the
meetings
were
open
to
the
public.
They
were
very
readily
advertised
on
the
city
government
website
and
the
the
turnout,
certainly
for
the
first
few
meetings,
was
very
strong.
We
interpreted
that
in
many
in
many
ways
that,
yes,
there
is
a
groundswell
of
community
support
and
also
a
sense
of
urgency.
I
mean
we're
talking
about
timelines
right
now
and
I.
Think
our
collective
worry
is
that
if
we,
you
know
obviously
open
to
the
public
and
get
public
input.
B
B
So,
at
my
recollection,
is
that
our
first
set
of
meetings
10
to
15
community
members
around
there
showed
up
at
the
first
few,
we
met
for
the
first
two
hours
and
45
minutes
as
a
group,
so
that
we
could
talk
about
the
task
in
front
of
us
and
we
had
15
minutes
for
public
comment
at
the
end.
So
during
that
first
meeting,
every
person
that
was
present
as
part
of
the
community
actually
did
take
the
mic
and
speak
up
the
collective
feeling,
as
those
people
did
speak
and
voiced.
B
Their
concerns
was
that
we,
the
task
force
members,
were
empowered
by
the
authenticity
by
the
vulnerability
of
these
community
members
and
that
that
is
what
drove
us.
Every
single
meeting
every
week,
sometimes
forego
our
own
personal
lives,
because
the
charge
is
to
support
them
and
what
they
want.
So
we've
had
plenty
of
community
involvement.
L
A
So
in
terms
of
process,
I
think
this
is
one
person's
opinion
that
we
should
try
to
wrestle
with
a
recommendation
from
us
see
if
we
get
someplace
that
we're
like
hey.
This
is
pretty
good.
Let's
move
this
forward
and
it
doesn't
keep
the
public
perfect
from
saying
nope,
you
got
it
wrong.
You
should
go
the
other
way,
but
I
think
it's
also.
A
We
need
to
do
our
work,
which
is
this
is
what
we're
hearing.
This
is
what
we
think:
here's
our
here's,
our
hybrid
or
we
take
a
or
B
okay.
So
maybe
we
have
some
time
allotted
tonight
to
do
that.
Does
that
work
and
then
yeah?
So
with
that
in
mind,
I
guess
their
strengths
of
both
models.
There's
some
things.
I.
O
Investigator
I
think
is
really
important,
particularly
over
time
I
like
the
idea
of
the
community
liaison
working
between
the
community
and
the
police
department.
Very
much
because
the
objective
here
is
to
strengthen
the
police
department
in
the
right
ways,
and
so
and
that's
also
with
the
public
Oversight
Panel.
Nine
members,
it
seems
is
seems
like
a
good
again
I.
Take
your
I
know
you
go
back
and
forth
with
that,
but
getting
everyone
together,
I
did
read
your
getting
everyone
together
at
the
same
time,
on
the
same
page,
could
might
be
difficult
with
a
larger
group.
A
I
guess
I
actually
I
should
also
mention
that
at
CAC
we
talked
about
that.
One
of
the
elements
of
this
working,
which
I
think
you
guys
have
pointed
out,
is
that
it
partner
with
the
police
department
that
it
be
a
productive
relationship
as
opposed
to,
but
one
where
it's
being
resisted,
and
to
that
end,
that
it
might
be
useful
to
hear
from
representatives
of
the
police
department
about
these
two
models.
A
A
O
A
What
do
you
want
to
talk
a
little
bit,
yeah
good,
well,.
M
That's
involved
there,
but
at
the
same
time,
I
feel
like
the
auditor
monitor
system.
By
having
somebody
who
is
full-time
internal.
There
might
be
more
opportunities
for
systemic
change.
I
feel
like
the
having
one,
an
individual
who
is
working
on
this
constantly
in
collaboration
with
the
panel
and
and
and
the
the
data
scientist
might
be
able
to
put
together
recommendations
that
were
more
fully
thought-out
and
and
and
and
wide-reaching.
O
N
N
It's
number
one
and
number
two
is
if,
if
there
ends
up
being
issues
with
that
particular
person,
then
we
kind
of
have
that
person
and
then,
and
then
the
city
manager
or
see
council
are
then
in
a
very
difficult
position
of
like
okay.
Well,
this
is
not
working
out
so
well
and
we're
now
we're
talking
about
a
person
and
their
livelihood
and
their
job
and
they're
here
and
there
and
I
think
with
independent
one.
N
We
have
some
flexibility
and
if
we
are
using
somebody
and
it's
not
working
out
or
we're
not
happy
with
that,
we
can
move
on
to
another
and
another,
and
now
that
we
have
that
flexibility
to
try
out
different
things,
you
can't
really
do
that.
So
much
with
an
employee,
you
kind
of
make
an
immoral
commitment
to
that
person
and
I
think
with
an
independent
investigator
we
can.
N
We
can
find
in
our
first
few
go-rounds
who
or
multiple
people
that
we
find
are
meeting
our
community
values
and
we
can
kind
of
change
it
without
you
know
if
they're
effectively
contracted
so
I
like
the
independence
and
I,
like
the
flexibility.
I
guess
is
the
word
I'll
use
and
being
able
to
find
things
because
would
be
a
horrible
situation.
N
So
I
do
like
the
idea
of
flexibility,
one
other
thing
about
the
independent
investigator
and
then
I'll
stop
talking
is
we
could
go
down
that
path
initially
and
find
somebody
that
we
really
like
a
lot
and
then
ultimately
say
to
that
person.
You
know:
there's
some
advantages
to
us
from
as
Aaron
mentioned
continuity
and
whatnot,
would
you
mind
coming
in
house
so
to
speak,
and
so
it's
kind
of
a
free
look
that
could
be
weeks.
It
could
be
months.
It
could
be
years.
We
may
settle
on
something
that
we
really
like.
N
A
Where
so,
you
know
the
role,
the
oversight
panel
and
kind
of
as
the
holder
of
the
space
and
the
conversation
and
makes
me
feel
like.
Okay,
either
could
work,
because
that's
the
important
element
and
in
that
diverse
group
of
opinions,
there's
more
of
a
chance
of
getting
it
right
and
thinking
things
very
thoroughly.
So
I
like
that,
and
while
generally
smaller
bodies
are
more
efficient,
I'm,
not
a
sure
efficiency
is
the
goal
here.
So
I
think
the
11
person
panel
actually
gives
more
chance
to
get
more
voices
and
perspectives.
A
What
if
we
had
the
outside
investigation,
independent
investigation
as
a
tool
that
the
panel
or
the
auditor
could
say
you
know
what
this
incident
or
this
I
think
it's
mostly
incidents
right
that
we're
talking
about
this
complaint
is
big
enough.
We'd
like
to
you
know,
be
able
have
them
have
the
ability
to
contract
it
out
to
somebody
what's
expertise
or
more
independence
than
us.
A
If
we
do
that
in
terms
of
doing
the
hybrid
so
that
we
have
the
of
having
an
audit
or
monitor
that's
really
paying
attention
to
our
community
and
but
the
tool
of
having
an
outside
perspective,
that
really
is
independent
for
the
big-ticket
stuff
or
something
really
controversial,
I,
don't
know
if
I'll
just
throw
that
out.
There
is.
L
I
like
both
and
that
doesn't
help
but
I
like
where
this
discussion
is
going
and
I,
think
Bob's
comment
about
maybe
starting
with
an
independent
and
seeing
who
that
auditor
monitor
might
be
with
the
idea
of
going
into
auditor,
monitor
I.
Think
it's
important
to
have
somebody
who
has
that
steady
kind
of
continued
look
at
trends
and
things
like
that.
L
If
we
find
somebody
if
that
person
fits,
we
could
start
with
a
independent
investigator
that
might
eventually
go
into
the
auditor
monitor
position
and
in
some
extreme
cases
we
get
an
outside
independent
investigator
of
if
necessary.
You
know
if
the
group,
the
oversight
and
auditor
monitor
things
like
this
is
a
little
bit
beyond
our
our
capacity,
and
we
need
more
work.
More
investigation
on
this,
so
yeah.
A
O
P
O
B
So
the
word
independence
has
popped
up
a
lot,
and
so
we
want
to
make
it
very
clear
that
both
models
offer
independence.
The
way
that
you're
debating
it
is
very
different.
However,
my
personal
interpretation
is
that,
by
talking
about
independence,
having
somebody
completely
outside
of
the
city,
that
is
appealing
for
whatever
reason,
however,
with
the
Auditor
monitor
model,
you
do
have
an
independent
person,
who's
independent
of
the
police,
who's
going
to
be
completely
I'm
objective.
B
At
least
that
is
the
hope,
so
we
just
want
to
make
sure
that
that
point
is
very
clear
that
one
model
is
not
more
independent
than
the
other.
It's
the
the
nuances
that
works
talking
about.
One
thing
that
I've
that
I
find
really
interesting
is
the
hybrid
of
the
hybrid,
which
is
having
both
an
auditor
monitor
and
a
panel
and
an
independent
investigator.
B
You
know,
as
we
mean
Aden
I,
think
that
is
an
interesting
way
to
take
that
and
again,
the
urgency
from
the
community
is
that
we
would
like
to
have
someone.
You
know
in
the
capacity
to
build
community
healing
and
I,
think
that
that
element
is
very,
very
important
that
both
models
can
offer,
but
just
to
keep
that
in
mind.
Imagine
as
you're
thinking
about
that
I
to.
A
That
end
in
the
auditor,
you
talked
more
about
the
liaison
II,
as
liaison.
Thank
you
in
the
second
model,
more
than
you
did
the
first,
but
that
notion
of
community
building
and
outreach,
and
you
talked
about
football,
with
police,
no
coffee
with
the
police
officers
in
under
the
one.
But
is
that
a
thing
that
you
involve
you
envision
with
both
of
those
models
that
function
the.
F
A
That's
an
element
in
either
because
I
think
that's
really
nice
too.
Okay,
let
me
just
say
one
more
thing
before
I
think
we're
gonna
invite
up
some
members
of
the
police
there
you
are.
Is
we're
focused
on
this
aspect,
but
I
just
want
to
remind
the
public
and
everybody
that
we're
doing
other
work
with
the
government
Alliance
on
race
and
equity.
A
It's
not
just
the
police
department
that
it
has
to
do
this
work,
but
it's
the
larger
community,
it's
the
community
leaders
to
all
of
us,
and
so
even
though
tonight
we're
focused
on
the
police
department.
We
also
recognize
that
the
systemic
nature
of
this
issue
doesn't
nobody
is
off
the
hook.
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
you
both
raised
your
hands.
M
For
saying
that
same
because
I
was
gonna
say
something
very
similar,
but
just
to
add
to
that-
and
this
is
work
for
all
of
us
to
do
these
problems.
They're,
deep,
they're,
systemic
and
the
racism
kind
of
built
into
the
structure
of
our
society
is
something
that
we
all
have
to
work
on
and
I
was
to
call
it
that
we've
had
multiple
instances
recently
of
the
police
being
called
on
people
of
color
just
by
community
members
for
doing
nothing,
and
if
my
understands
the
police
behaved
extremely
well
when
that
happened.
M
L
A
L
E
A
We'd
love
to
hear
your
thoughts.
However,
you
want
to
do
that
not.
Q
Sure,
where
to
begin
but
I'll
dive
in
first
of
all,
thanks
to
the
task
force
for
all
their
work
and
I
want
to
reiterate
what
was
said
earlier,
and
that
is
that
they
have
done
a
lot
of
work
in
a
very
compressed
timeframe
and
that
most
municipalities
or
agencies
take
18
months
to
two
years
to
implement
this
and
to
no
fault
of
their
own
I'm,
not
sure
they
had
a
chance
to
fully
delve
into
the
current
system
and
how
it
works.
I
think
that's
important
to
note.
Q
Success
is
in
the
details
and
there
are
a
lot
of
details
with
either
one
of
these
models
that
need
to
be
fully
worked
out
for
it
to
be
successful.
Having
said
that,
I'll
cut
to
the
chase
I
have
I
think
the
other
monitor
model
is
the
next
iteration
of
what
we
have
now.
We've
had
the
psrp
for
26
years.
Every
good
thing
has
a
life
cycle
and
I
think
the
the
psrp
has
done
great
benefit
to
the
Department
of
Community.
Well,
it's
clearly
time
for
a
change
flowing
to
the
auditor.
Q
Monitor
model
I
think
is:
has
the
fewest
details
to
work
out
to
make
it
work?
Well,
I
know
that
independent
investigation
sounds
very
good
and
I
have
to
stress
that
there
is
nothing
we
take
more
seriously
than
the
investigation
of
misconduct.
Every
police
executive
team
takes
that
should
take.
That
is
the
most
serious
charge.
There
is
because,
at
the
end
of
day,
the
integrity
of
the
police
department-
you
our
most
concern
so
I
want
everyone
to
understand
that
we
have
a
long
history
of
doing
really
good
investigations
in
the
department.
Q
You
know
the
Hillard
Hinds
report
was
mentioned
earlier.
There's
a
line
in
there
where
they
indicated
that
our
internal
investigators
were
very
efficient
and
very
thorough
and
they
had
no
knocks
on
our
investigations.
We
are
always
willing
to
show
our
good
work
to
the
public
when
it
comes
to
internal
investigations.
Q
I
just
think
there
are
many
barriers
to
overcome
with
independence.
One
of
them
might
be
contractual
and
Mark
can
speak
to
that.
But,
as
it
stands
now
we
have
an
in-house
sergeant
who's
dedicated
to
internal
investigations.
If
I
go
into
work
Monday
morning
and
there's
a
serious
complaint,
he
can
begin
working
immediately
on
that
complaint.
He
works
with
the
full
authority
of
the
Chief
of
Police,
and
that
means
anyone
that
comes
into
his
office.
It's
the
same
as
that
they
came
into
my
office.
He
can
order
them
to
cooperate
with
investigation.
Q
If
they
don't,
then
they
will
face
discipline
up
to
including
termination
for
not
participating.
Investigation
going
with
an
independent
investigator
who
may
be
a
contractor
contractor
from
another
state,
presents
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
those
issues
to
overcome
what
what
authority
do
they
have,
whose
authority
to
lead
do
they
work
under.
Q
The
other
important
issue
in
these
internal
investigations
is
there's
a
relationship
that
develops
between
the
chief
and
their
investigator
and
both
Ron
and
Curtis
were
ia
sergeants
in
their
former
lives.
Chief
Beckner
was
chief
testa
was
and
there's
a
there's,
a
dynamic
that
takes
place
with
internal
investigations
where
the
the
chief
and
the
I
investigator
develop
a
relationship,
and
he
is
literally
just
outside
my
door
and,
as
these
things
develop
sometimes
what's
can
seem
like
a
very
minor
complaint
can
quickly
developed
into
something
very
serious
and
employment
decisions
have
to
be
made.
Q
Are
we
going
to
put
this
person
on
leave
or
not?
Likewise,
an
investigation
can
seem
very
serious
at
the
beginning
and
we're
very
concerned,
and
within
a
few
hours
or
a
day
of
investigation,
we
realize
this
is
not
what
it
first
seemed
and
we
can
relieve
some
stress
from
that
employee
I'm
really
concerned
that
that
relationship
won't
exist
with
an
independent
outside
investigator
I.
Q
Think
the
auditor
modder
model
offers
a
very
good
compromise
where
we
can
take
the
internal
investigation
that
we
do
and
that
we
are
well-known
for
doing
well
and
allow
the
auditor
to
shadow
to
review
and
to
publicize
that
investigation
when
it's
complete
and
there
are
models
that
California
uses
it
quite
a
bit
where
they
have
a
contracted
auditor
monitor
who
comes
in
on
a
similar
semi-permanent
basis
to
review.
So
it's
not
a
full-time
staff
position.
Q
Q
So
having
said
that,
I
think
those
are
the
concerns
that
I
have
about
an
independent,
investigator
I.
Think
the
Auditor
model
auditor
monitor
it's
hard
to
say,
she's
a
dry
mouth
I
think
it
offers
a
lot
of
promise.
It
offers
the
next
level
of
transparency
for
our
community.
We
are
concerned
about
issues
of
bias
and
unbiased
policing
is
going
to
be
the
theme
of
our
2020
training
cycle,
so
that
clue
is
on
the
forefront
of
our
minds
and
I'm.
Q
O
The
is
good
question
yeah,
so
you
feel
that
a
contractual
auditor
monitor
would
be
someone
with
whom
you
could
build
the
kind
of
relationship
that
you
wouldn't
have
quite
the
same
as
someone
who
was
full-time,
but
it
would
be
different
than
having
a
different
person.
What
you
don't
want
is
a
different
person
coming
in
each
time.
It's
not
building
on
what
is
here
and
what
is
seen.
O
Q
I
think
I
think
I'm
following
her
question
short
answers.
Yes,
I'm,
throwing
that
is
another
option
to
having
a
full-time
staffed
auditor,
monitor
that
you
could
have
a
contractual
relationship
with
a
firm
that
does
this.
It
has
the
professionalism
that
to
do
that.
I,
don't
know
that
there
are
those
firms
currently
in
Colorado,
because
I
think
Denver
may
be
the
only
entity
that
uses
an
auditor
monitor
within
Colorado.
But
clearly
other
states
have
had
that
model.
For
some
time
they
have
professional
firms
that
that's
what
they
do.
Q
Q
Don't
I
think
I
think
one
way
to
start
out
is
to,
of
course
we
want
to
go
down
this
road.
Slowly
and
and
again,
success
is
in
the
details
and
work
those
details
out.
So
just
thinking
about
this
really
fresh.
At
this
moment
we
could
start
with
a
contractual
relationship
with
a
firm
that
specializes
in
that
see
what
the
workload
is
and
then
build
from
there,
and
if
there
is
a
need,
if
after
a
year
or
true
two,
we
discover
that,
yes,
that
there
is
a
need
for
a
full-time
in
city
employed
Auditor,
monitor.
Q
Q
P
Get
mark
Bobby
Union
president.
Thank
you
for
giving
me
a
few
minutes
tonight.
It's
extremely
important
importance
of
the
fact
we're
throughout
this
entire
process
of
visited
with
the
task
force
I've
taken
my
own
personal
time,
to
make
rounds
to
departments
of
similar
type
of
models
that
we're
proposing
here
today.
I
also
know
that
we've
we've
had
a
long
history
of
it's
been
documented
and
detailed.
P
You
know
pause
and
again
in
the
confidence
of
the
over
all
of
those
making
those
decisions
I
when
looking
at
both
models,
really
the
short
answer
on
the
first
one,
the
auditor
monitor
model
is
you
know
it's
the
Union
and
my
membership
and
I
can
speak
on
behalf.
We
feel
that
it
lends
a
greater
transparency
and
ability
for
recommending
the
body
on
all
levels,
there's
a
greater
flow
of
information.
One
of
the
things
I
learned
in
in
this
auditor
modern
model
is
things
that
you've
all
mentioned
this
evening.
P
It
conflicts
in
the
processes
that
we
have
place
in
our
collective
bargaining
agreement,
our
contract,
our
contract,
that
is
in
place
involving
things
such
as
due
process,
things
that
involved
the
investigative
steps,
the
recommending
bodies,
if
we
have
an
outside
source
that
is,
is
coming
to
that
may
be
someone
that
has
a
lot
of
experience.
You
earlier
spoke
of
timeliness,
but
from
my
understanding
is
that
timeliness
would
be
a
inhibitor
or
it
wouldn't
happen
is
easily
the
flow.
P
You
know
you're
having
dual
investigations
you're
having
things
that
would
the
members
would
you
know
where
the
union
would
support
the
members
and
things
of
arbitration
or
in
decisions
of
discipline,
so
all
that
would
have
to
be
we're
kind
of
butts
up
against
a
contract,
whereas
with
the
first
model
based
on
what's
presented
for
us
today,
it
doesn't
have
a
give
us
great
pause
so
from
the
boulder
Police
Officers
Association.
We
would
not
support
the
investigative
model.
P
I
also
know
that
this
task
force
I've
met,
done
great
great
bunch
of
people,
and
then
five
months
has
done
the
work
as
they
mentioned
that
can
take
up
to
18
months,
so
they
brought
giving
you
a
lot
of
information.
They've
outlined
a
lot
of
great
detail,
but
we
also
know
that
there's
a
lot
of
detail
that
we
don't
know,
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
have
two
questions
that
have
to
be
answered,
things
that
have
to
be
kind
of
just
worked
through.
P
So
you
know
we
want
to
have
an
opportunity
from
the
Union
standpoint
of
the
boulder
police
department
to
have
a
bigger
participation
and
trying
to
work
some
of
those
things
out
and
you
know,
and
whether
it's
life
experiences
or
like
I,
said
I
visited
a
police
agency
and
sharing
those
experiences
and
understanding
that
what
are
some
of
those
things
that
do
work
and
how
does
it
work
and
in
time
it
you
know,
it'll
work
based
on.
You
know
the
examples
that
are
brought
forth.
P
Q
Yes,
there's
had
a
couple
of
quick
thoughts
as
well
as
we
were
sitting
here.
If
the
auditor
monitor
were
to
be
designate
to
be
the
shadow
investigator,
in
other
words,
to
basically
shadow
the
internal
investigation
all
the
way
through.
Obviously,
then,
you
would
be
looking
at
hiring
a
staff
person
because
they
need
to
be
available
40
hours
a
week.
It
wouldn't
be
fair
to
the
the
community,
wouldn't
be
fair,
the
employee.
For
these
things
to
drag
out.
We,
we
have
a
very
good
reputation
of
closing.
Q
Most
these
cases
within
60
days,
which
is
considered
a
best
practice.
I
would
not
want
to
see
that
time
double
or
triple
that
wouldn't
be
fair.
The
employee
wouldn't
be
fair.
The
community
wouldn't
be
fair
to
the
complainant.
So
what
tasks
you
assigned
to
the
Auditor
monitor
would
dictate
whether
you
could
start
with
a
contractual
relationship
or
not
also
I
want
to
clarify
something.
I
heard
early
on.
There
was
a
comment
made
about
taking
the
ia
sergeant's
recommendations
for
discipline
and
disposition.
Q
It
was
made
in
the
earlier
part
of
the
presentation.
Oh
yeah,
that's
about
taking
Shaw.
Maybe
can
help
me
out
when
you
were
saying
that
about
taking
the
ia
sergeant's
recommendations
and
having
the
auditor
monitor
take
those
to
the
panel.
So
I
just
want
to
be
clear
that
the
RI
investigator
does
not
make
any
recommendation.
They
are
purely
a
fact-finder,
so
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that's
that's
clear,
they're
only
a
fact-finder.
They
do
not
make
any
recommendation
as
to
disposition
or
discipline,
and
that's
something
else.
Q
I'm
cause
me
some
kind
of
concern
when
I
read
through
the
models
that
the
ICL
would
not
only
investigate
but
would
also
make
recommendations
for
disposition
and
discipline.
In
my
opinion,
an
investigator
should
be
an
investigator.
They
should
only
be
a
finder
of
fact.
They
should
not
be
making
recommendations
and,
as
RI
sergeant
will
tell
you
that
makes
their
job
a
little
bit
easier
because
they
only
have
to
gather
facts.
They
don't
have
to
to
land
on
a
disposition
and
they
don't
have
to
make
a
recommendation
for
discipline
and
just.
A
Q
Currently,
the
IE
sergeant
completes
the
investigation
yeah
that
entire
file,
then
is
sent
to
the
chain
of
command.
So
if
it's
an
officer,
it
would
go
to
the
officer
sergeant
the
commander,
the
deputy
chief
of
the
division,
then
it
goes
to
the
psrp
they
review
it.
They
make
a
recommendation
and
all
those
recommendations
then
come
to
the
chief
for
the
final
disposition.
Everybody's.
Q
J
E
That
person
is
a
fact-finder
that
is
not
only
a
previous
criminal
investigator
but
is
trained
in
personnel.
Investigations
knows
our
internal
policies
and
procedures
and
what
what
is
acceptable
and
not
acceptable
in
our
organization
also
has
historical
context
for
how
we
deal
with
complaints
in
our
organization,
and
that
is
critically
important
to
doing
a
good
investigation
as
well
as
understanding.
Sometimes
a
case
can
become
a
criminal
case.
E
That
work
is
reviewed
by
a
lot
of
people.
It's
reviewed
by
first-line
supervisors
commanders
deputy
chiefs.
At
the
time
it
was
reviewed
by
the
Professional
Standards
review
panel.
Part
of
their
specific
charge
was
to
make
sure
that
investigation
was
fair,
thorough
and
complete,
and
it's
ultimately
reviewed
by
the
chief
of
police,
so
that
person
is
hand-selected,
trained
and
works
with.
All
of
that
in
mind,
knowing
that
their
work
product
is
going
to
be
scrutinized
at
multiple
levels,
both
inside
the
organization
and
with
some
community
component,
and
we
recognize
that
would
continue.
E
If
there
is
a
may,
be
a
change
to
the
psrp,
that's
more
of
a
broader
community
panel
of
different
makeup,
but
that
drives
their
work.
So
they
strive
to
do
the
most
professional
fact-finding
they
can
because
they
know
it's
going
to
be
reviewed
so
many
times
and
I
think
that's
important,
because
we
believe
in
our
ability
to
investigate
and
provide
a
product
that
allows
others
to
make
a
decision
on.
Q
If
I
could
just
close
with
a
couple
thoughts,
so
in
trying
to
help
prepare
our
members
for
this
transition,
DC
Johnson's
been
going
to
briefings
talking
about
where
we're
at
where
we're
headed.
What
this
process
is-
and
it's
interesting
note
that
some
of
the
old-timers
who
were
here
in
1993
when
we
went
to
the
Professional
Standards
review
panel
talked
about
their
experience,
and
we
were
here
at
the
time
as
well.
It
was
a
time
of
consternation.
Q
It
was
a
time
of
worry,
but
it
it's
lasted
for
26
years
and
it
was
successful
because
they
were
involved
and
it
took
some
of
the
fear
out
of
it
by
being
involved.
So,
while
I,
it's
critically
important
that
whatever
number
of
panel
members,
we
land
on
it's
critically
important
that
the
community
involved
in
selecting
them
and
that
certain
interest
groups
be
involved
in
selecting
them,
I
think
it's
also
critical
that
the
some
PD
employees
be
involved
in
selecting
them,
because
that
will
lend
credibility
and
their
eyes
make
it
a
better
chance
of
success.
A
Okay,
so
that's
interesting,
can
you
say
another
expand
upon
that
a
person
be
on
the
panel
or
what
did
you
mean
by
that?
So.
Q
I
guess
a
recommendation
would
be.
However,
many
people
will
be
on
the
selection
panel
that
you
add
two
police
officers
to
be
on
that
panel
as
well.
So
the
combination
of
the
community
members,
those
selected
task
force
members
who
want
to
stay
on
and
PD
employees
who
make
those
recommendations
to
select
the
panel
members
for
the
review
panel.
F
M
Questions
well
just
I'm,
not
thank
you
all
for
that.
That's
very
helpful.
I
appreciate
your
your
input.
That's
extremely
important.
Just
from
a
process
perspective,
I'd,
I'm,
I'm,
just
thinking
that
the
how
the
panel
gets
selected
is
one
of
the
kind
of
more
kind
of
complicated
touchy
issues.
I,
don't
know
if
that's
something
that
we
would
be
setting
settling
this
month
or
that
might
be
something
that
gets
done
in
the
next
phase
in
2020.
Is
that
kind
of
what
we're
thinking
that
that's
a
next
phase
decision
and
I.
E
Think
our
hope
is
that
there
are
a
lot
of
details
that
need
to
be
worked
out
and
I
think
we're
comfortable
collaborating
with
members
of
the
task
force.
You
know
the
understanding
there
are
some
who
feel
are
probably
exhausted
from
the
process
they've
already
been
through
in
five
months
and
may
not
have
the
time
or
energy
to
continue,
but
I
think
there
are.
E
I
B
B
One
of
the
things
that
I
shared
personally
in
the
task
force
is
that
I
used
to
be.
I
used
to
work
in
college
admissions,
and
one
of
the
things
that
is
really
important
is
that
every
person
that
comes
to
the
table
should
be
respected
for
their
views,
that
if
the
mission
itself
is
in
front
of
everyone,
that
everybody
is
going
to
come
to
the
table
to
respect
that
mission.
So
the
hope
is
that
the
collaborative
process
continues.
B
A
M
M
N
Just
a
process
question
then
that
that
so
let's
say
we
passed
an
ordinance
this
month
and
we
lay
the
framework.
But
but,
as
you
all
indicated,
there's
still
a
fair
amount
of
work
to
do,
and
we
can
express
our
views
on
that.
But
you
guys
have
heard
all
the
hard
work
that
would
mean
that
the
task
force
would
would
probably
stay
organized
as
a
task
force
and
would
help
us
flush
out
these
detail.
This
is
a
question
over
the
next.
However
long
it
takes
short
period
of
time,
hopefully
I
mean.
B
So
yes,
so
we
obviously
made
that
discussion
I,
think
in
both
presentations.
If
that
detail
escaped,
that
some
subset
of
us
would
choose
to
stay,
we've
spoken
to
each
other
individually
as
to
whether
or
not
we
would
continue
and
I
think
that
really
depends
on
lots
of
different
factors.
But
in
order
for
this
to
work
in
terms
of
implementation,
it
is
important,
and
we
all
recognize
that
that's
of
us
will
remain
to
go
forward
with
implementation.
A
Embedded
in
that
answer
that
a
healthy
subset
or
a
sufficient
subset,
maybe
I'll
put
it
that
way
our
game
to
help
through
that
process.
Is
that
accurate?
Okay,
that's
helpful!
Okay,
anything
else
from
you
all
not
that
you
have
to
leave,
but
I
guess
we're
gonna
talk
amongst
ourselves
now,
if
there's
not
anything
else,.
R
B
A
N
So,
for
you
guys,
one
of
the
things
that
I
think
the
chief
said
was
that
it
may
be
difficult
to
find.
If
we
go
the
otter
monitor,
monitor
route,
it
may
be
difficult
for
us
to
find
somebody
right
away.
Maybe
it's
not
full-time
right
away,
so
maybe
it's
a
contracted
position
that
moves
into
a
full-time
in
permanent
employed
position
and
maybe
the
first
person
doesn't
work
out
and
so
we're
contract.
So
that's
a
little
bit
less
sensitive.
C
My
initial
concern
would
that
particular
phrasing
and
model
is
that
if
you
were
to
contract
an
auditor
monitor,
they
would
probably
app
be
out
of
state.
There
isn't
one
in
state
that
I
know
of
so,
if
you
do
so
convincing
them
to
move
to
Colorado
and
settle
here,
if
they
work
well
with
us,
feels
like
a
stretch
not
impossible
by
any
means
the
imagination,
but
it
doesn't
feel
as
smooth
as
if
you
were
imagining
this
person
being
contracted
from
within
color.
M
L
M
L
L
A
A
L
So
here's
the
answer-
I
could
just
it's
concerning
placing
the
auditor
monitor
under
the
direction
of
City
Council
has.
This
was
a
concern,
has
a
potential
to
politicize
police
policies?
Please
address,
and
so
you
guys
response
was
the
task
force
has
discussed
this
possibility,
but
feels
the
advantage
of
direct
community
representation
outweighs
concerns
of
politics.
In
addition,
the
police
chief
would
still
maintain
the
final
decision-making
authority
regarding
the
outcomes
of
internal
investigations,
which
means
political
interference
in
any
single
case
would
be
mitigated.
That's.
A
B-But
so
right
now
it
would
be
under
the
city
manager
right
and
it
would
take
a
charter
change
to
change
it
to
the
City
Council
right.
So
it
feels
to
me,
like
maybe
an
easy-out
is
hey,
let's
start
with
it
under
the
city
manager
and
see
how
she
rolls
and
if
we
need
to
make
a
change
down
the
road,
it
would
take
a
vote
of
the
people
anyhow.
So
we
don't
have
to
decide
that
now
right.
L
N
Probably
worth
saying
just
at
home
with
Suzanne
said
it
as
far
as
the
Charter
change,
that
requires
a
vote
of
the
people,
and
that
would
be
a
November
election
and
obviously,
we've
already
missed
the
vote
for
this
year.
So
just
we're
not
dusting
that
in
the
rug
would
that's
something
we
literally
can't
do
for
about
12
months.
We
can
start
talking
about
it
next
year,
but
we
won't
be
able
to
heat
it
up
for
a
while,
so
not
to
say
that
we're
not
interested
is
we
just
legally
can't
do
that?
Quite
yet,
and.
B
A
So
that
that
feels
right
to
leave
that
under
the
city
manager
now,
okay,
do
we
should
we
figure
out
the
model
first,
okay,
so
I
put
my
thing
out
there
that
I
think
we
should
try.
The
am
the
auditor
monitor
model
I'd
go
for
the
bigger
panel
oversight
test
panel
and
we
could
consider
tweak
or
not
with
this
at
the
outside
tool
or
contract,
with
an
outside
investigator
slash
review
as
needed
as
a
tool
in
the
toolbox.
A
O
O
A
So
I
think
we've
answered
number
one
in
terms
of
tweak.
We
gave
you
a
fuzzy
idea
about
how
you
might
have
this
outside
as
a
tool
if
needed.
What
might
that
look
like
I
think
we
want
to
weigh
in
on
the
selection
piece.
N
Yeah
they're
very
strong
feelings
about
about
what
you
recommend
as
far
as
the
selection
of
the
selection
of
the
panel
goes
other
than
to
say
that
I
do
I
would
like
to
see
some
involvement
of
the
human
relations.
Somehow
you
guys
can
come
back
with
some
recommendations.
Maybe
you
know
one
or
two
of
their
designee
assists
on
the
selection
group
or
whatever
it
is,
but
but
it
it
provides
effectively
an
indirect
input
from
us,
because
we
remember
we
appoint
the
Human
Relations
Commission,
you
know
and
they're.
N
Obviously
people
that
we've
identified
and
trust
on
the
chair
of
the
Human
Relations
Commission
happens
to
be
in
the
room
right
now,
and
so
it
just
it's
just
one
more
one
more
connection
to
council
and
also
to
the
community,
because
they're
obviously
serving
the
community
in
their
response
to
the
community.
So
you
guys
work
out
that
detail.
I
don't
have
a
strong
recommendation
other
than
if
we
can
figure
out
how
to
get
the
HRC
as
part
of
the
selection
group.
G
J
A
J
B
Think
I
think
again
in
the
spirit
of
collaboration.
Many
of
us
on
the
task
force
have
strong
ties
to
certain
nonprofit
groups
and
and
so
being
able
to
leverage.
Our
experience
with
these
particular
entities
is
great,
as
Michelle
just
stated.
The
importance
for
us
is
that
the
acuity
nonprofits
involved
actually
are
serving
underrepresented
populations
in
a
significant
way,
and
hopefully
with
longevity
as
well.
One
group,
of
course,
that
we
would
love
to
and
I
think
is
part
primordial
to
this
discussion-
is
having
the
n-double-a-cp
have
furs
involved.
B
M
B
Definitely
the
rotation
of
that
I
think
is
really
important.
You
have
significant
institutions
like
the
n-double-a-cp,
you
have
out
Boulder
County,
you
have
families
of
color
as
a
group,
they
serve
parts
of
populations
even
with
intersectionality,
so
being
able
to
have
another
group
that
serves
the
homeless
population
at
one
point
is
very
important,
and
so
the
rotating
basis
is
is
quite
part
of
that
model.
M
So
that
makes
a
lot
of
sense.
So
I
didn't
understand
that
before
that's,
and
so
that
I
guess
that
would
be
I
liked.
That
idea
and
it
would
just
need
to
be
refined
in
terms
of
the
details
of
how
that
would
function
and,
of
course
the
nonprofit's
would
have
to
be
willing
and
they'd
have
to
each
have
their
own
internal
selection
process,
and
you
know
cuz
it
it's
a
little
bit
of
a
task
to
take
on
right
and
you'd.
You
probably
have
some
requirements
around
how
they
nominate
someone
so
anywhere.
A
B
N
Just
an
observation
we
we
have,
we
have
a
lot
of
boards
and
commissions,
and
this
is
very
different
from
one
of
our
partner
commissions.
I,
don't
want
to
overstate
the
analogy,
but
typically
those
commitments
are
five
years
and
one
of
the
advantages
of
having
a
longer
period.
I
get
the
staggering
man
so
for
the
first
few
years
is
obviously
gonna,
be
some
shorter
terms
for
some
people,
but
well.
N
The
advantages
of
having
people
make
a
five-year
commitment
is
that
they,
you
know
it
takes
a
year
to
usually
understand
the
job
and
develop
the
relationships
and
kind
of
get
it
and
so
forth.
Would
you
folks,
assuming
that
staggered
and
we
just
set
up
the
board
year
and
a
half
ago,
the
housing
advisory
board,
and
we
ended
that
one-year
term
into
your
sermons
four-year
term,
so
we
phased
in.
Would
you
be
opposed
to
a
five-year
term?
A
At
least
three
years,
I
just
feel
like
you
get
it
be
long
enough,
especially
yeah.
If
we
want
people
to
be
looking
or
we
want
the
panel
to
look
at
trends
and
things,
it's
not
like.
There's
that
many
and
well
I
guess,
there's
not
that
many
class
one
investigations
there
probably
are
a
lot
of
other
complaints,
but
anyhow
in
order
to
feel
like
you're
doing
something
meaningful
right.
L
B
A
So
without
putting
anybody
in
the
spot,
at
least
chief
mentioned
the
idea
of
having
some
officers,
somebody
from
the
police
department
or
somebody's
serve.
Have
you
guys
discussed
that
again,
or
maybe
that's
not
something
you
have
to
respond
to
tonight,
but
I.
J
My
initial
response
was
that
there
would
be
a
remarkable
perception
from
the
community
if
we
had
the
police
officers
picking
these
people.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
the
department
is
involved.
That's
a
huge
part
of
what
we've
talked
about
this
entire
time,
but
as
far
as
having
specific
officers
pick
out
the
board
members
I
feel
like
that
initially
sounds
problematic
to
me.
Okay,.
C
B
I
think
I
think
I
would
just
reinforce
what
Sofia
just
said
that
that
having
a
police
department,
member
selecting
people
who
are
then
going
to
oversee
the
police
department
is
a
conundrum.
It's
pop
is
problematic
and
even
having
somebody
as
a
non-voting
member.
Just
the
observation.
The
presence
of
that
person
and
that
particular
influence
on
the
rest
of
the
selection
committee
is
problematic.
It's
it's
it's
another
thing
that
we're
trying
to
dismantle
okay.
A
Well,
that's
useful,
no
I!
Guess
the
one
thing
that
not
one
but
as
I
think
about
this
Erin
mentioned
earlier
kind
of
beginning
a
meeting
that
normally
the
kind
of
the
buck
stops
with
us.
So
something
goes
wrong.
We
get
blamed
and
that's
fine.
We
need
to
fix
stuff,
that's
that's
our
job
and
so
normally
we
we
have
some
role
and
going
okay,
good
or
whoa
shouldn't.
We
think
more
about
X,
Y
or
Z
and
I'm
not
saying
we
should
have
it,
but
in
I.
A
Think
as
you
something
to
think
about
is
it
sounds
like
the
city
minute
you're
the
panel
would
decide
and
the
panel
nobody
gets
nobody
from
the
city
staff
or
the
council
would
would
be
giving
any
blessings-
and
maybe
that's
okay,
but
I'll.
Just
I
just
want
to
you'll
to
consider
that
then
we're
not
responsible
and
that
usually
there's
a
reason.
The
buck
stops
here,
because
the
we
get
elected
and
the
people
can
all
dis
accountable,
so
I'll
just
throw
that
out.
A
M
Just
concept
of
what?
What
kind
of
oversight
would
there
be
of
the
panel
right?
You
wanted
to
be
immune
from
pressure
to
do
certain
things,
but
if
community,
if
many
community
members
felt
that
they
were
going
in
a
problematic
direction,
how
would
we
deal
with
that
situation?
I
guess
that's
my
question:
do
you
have
a
sense
of
like
so
so
again,
not
pressure,
but,
let's
say
there's
a
broad
consensus
among
people
of
color
in
the
community
that
the
panel
is
not
functioning
right.
What
do
we
do?
I
think.
J
N
Because
Aaron's
analogy,
if
there's,
if
the
community
is
unhappy
with
the
panel
and
of
course
they're
gonna
complain
to
us
because
complaints
and
if
we
haven't
been
involved
in
that
and
have
no
control
ring
like
that,
our
response
not
to
be
you
know:
petulant
bothers
widgets.
We
say
we
can't
do
anything
about
it.
You
know
it's,
they
are
self-perpetuating
bored
there
is
a
selection
committee
talk
to
them
and
you
don't
want
us
to
say
that
you
want
us
to.
N
N
I
know
if
it's
a
member
or
two
on
council
on
the
selection
committee
or
some
sort
of
final,
you
know
blessing
on
what
the
selection
committee
recommends
or
something
so
we
have
ownership
of
it,
so
that
we
then,
when
we
are
helped
to
account
by
the
community,
and
we
will
be-
we
can
at
least
say
yeah.
You
know
it
was
my
choice
and
I'm
going
to
stand
by
it
as
opposed
to
saying
well
wash
our
hands
of
it,
because
we
had
nothing
to
do
with
it.
B
B
There
was
a
thought
that
I
had
him
and
I
forgotten
now
around
accountability,
and
if
there
was
any
sort
of
community
dissent
as
to
how
the
panel
was
operating
in
the
auditor
monitor
model
in
particular,
the
auditor
monitor
is
the
person
who
oversees
the
over
oversight
panel,
so
that
person
would
be
imbued
with
the
with
the
knowledge
with
the
community
input
to
be
able
to
disband
you
know,
remove
a
member
if
necessary.
You
know.
Obviously
these
things
would
be
ironed
out
an
implementation.
N
So
I
suppose
that
further
argues
in
favor
of
having
the
auditor
monitor
ultimately
report
to
Council,
because
that
that
that
then
creates
the
linkage
that
we've
been
kind
of
struggling
with
here.
We
won't
be
able
to
do
that
right
away
because
of
the
charter
necessity,
but
then,
then
we
do
have
council
auditor
monitor
and
then
the
panel
okay
thanks,
that's
helpful.
Okay,.
A
We
didn't
think
about
it
again.
It
sounds
like
you
have,
but
as
we
get
to
the
details
about
okay-
and
this
is
the
part
about
designing
public
policy
I,
don't
always
like,
is
you
design
something,
that's
awesome,
and
then
you
go
okay?
What
if
we
screw
up
this
part,
what's
the
checks
and
balance?
What
if
the
auditor
monitor
it,
isn't
doing
what
we
had
in
mind?
What's
that
check
the
balance,
and
then
you
have
to
design
it
for
the
thing
that
Michael
wrong,
so
that'll
be
an
implementation
thing,
but
to
think
about
yeah?
A
A
L
So
I
was
just
gonna,
bring
up
a
point
that
was
made
by
Sam
Weber
type
that
hasn't
been
brought
up
and
it
was
his
comment
number
five
and
it
says
whether
the
auditor
monitor
reports,
the
council
or
the
city
manager.
The
suggestion
has
been
that
the
Oversight
Panel
evaluates
the
auditor
monitors
performance,
so
he
and
I
are
on
the
subcommittee,
which
evaluates
our
three
executive
employees,
performances,
and
so
he
just
pointed
out
that
the
review
standards
and
criteria
will
need
to
be
established
fairly
quickly
and
so
I.
L
Don't
I
don't
want
to
keep
adding
to
your
work.
But
that
would
be
something
that
you
would
need
to
look
at
and
give
a
recommendation
it.
It's
I've
been
on
the
executive
committee
for
I
think
seven
years
and
it's
taken
a
long
time
to
just
develop
that,
and
it's
been
somewhat
iterative.
So
you
have
to
kind
of
allow
for
that
flexibility
where
oh,
that
didn't
work
so
well
or
we
could
improve
on
this
part.
L
F
O
I
I
just
want
to
be
the
third
person
up
here
to
register
my
hope,
particularly
given
the
presentation
that
we
heard
from
the
police
department
that
there
be
someone
on
this
selection
committee
who
could
be
non-voting.
If
that's
the
compromise
there,
it
seems
that
there's
been
someone
from
the
police
department
on
your
task
force
this
whole
time
and
there's
been
some
trust
extended
there
and
I
would
hope
that
the
trust
would
be
extended.
Both
ways
in
terms
of
moving
forward
I.
M
Yeah
I
very
much
understood
the
points
that
you
were
making
about
the
the
problematic
nature
of
that
I.
Wonder
if
there's
some
opportunity
for
input
from
the
police
department
that
isn't
sitting
on
the
selection
panel,
like
I,
think
about
how,
like
our
board,
send
us
an
annual
letter.
You
know
about
how
they
feel
like
they're.
Part
of
the
city
is
working
and
feedback
on
how
it
could
work
a
little
differently,
and
you
know
what
what
if
there
was
some
opportunity
like
that,
like
a
check-in
with
the
police
department?
M
B
Definitely
I
think
that
the
task
force
itself
the
way
that
we
have
been
structured
not
only
having
one
or
two
police
members
on
the
task
force
itself
as
voting
members,
but
we
have
had
liaisons.
The
three
people
that
spoke
to
you
tonight
have
all
checked
in
with
us,
provided
wonderful
expertise,
unprovided
insight,
so
I
think
that
that
again,
going
back
to
my
original
answer
on
behalf
of
the
task
force
that
we
feel
really
strongly
that
a
police
person
should
not
be
part
of
the
selection
committee.
A
L
Was
just
gonna
comment
and
build
on
Cindy
and
Erin's
comment
that
I
think
you've
said
all
of
you
have
said
multiple
times
that
there's
you
know
hope
that
you
build
trust
on
both
sides
and
I
think
it
has
to
also
come
from
the
police
department.
I
mean
right
now:
it's
didn't
change
pretty
radically
right
and
that
that's
for
the
good,
I
think,
but
I
think
it's
important
to
maintain
their
voices
in
the
process.
Somehow
and
taking
their
comments.
A
Okay,
so
in
terms
of
number
three,
then
this
is
basically
us
saying:
okay,
do
a
broad
ordinance
there'll
be
a
first
reading
I
think
we
already
I,
hope,
we've
convinced
ourselves.
Nothing
else
can
be
fit
into
next
Tuesday's
meeting
and
also
note
I'm
gonna
be
out
of
town,
so
I
hope
we're
not
doing
it
then,
and
then
so.
We'll
do
a
broad
ordinance,
we'll
have
a
a
public
hearing,
and
it
seems
to
me
that
there's
lots
of
details,
there's
been
lots
of
questions.
A
There's
lots
of
good
answers,
we're
adding
more
stuff
that
I
hope
somebody
is
a
list
of
things
and
then
maybe
a
little
prioritisation
of
and
here's
what
the
task
force
will
bite
off
or
whoever
the
sufficient
subset.
That's
going
to
stick
with
it
for
no
pay
I
understand
that
would
probably
be
useful
so
that
we
walk
away
with
here's
next
steps.
Here's
the
flow
of
how
this
would
work.
A
N
Just
a
suggestion,
CAC
for
the
public
hearing
on
the
29th
I
think
rather
than
having
I
mean
anybody
from
the
task
force,
is
welcome
to
come
and
speak
at
the
public
hearing
and
I
hope.
Some
of
you
do,
but
it
might
be
nice
to
have
a
five
ish
minute
presentation
or
some
sort
of
presentation,
maybe
consolidate,
because
not
everyone
who's
watching.
N
A
A
Well,
then,
I
guess
this
is
the
part
where
we
thank
you
again.
I
I,
don't
know
if
I
speak
for
everybody,
I
think
I
do
that
this
process
has
turned
out
well,
it's
totally
exceeded
my
expectations
on
what
a,
how
could
it
could
be
and
how
it
feels
very
a
model
for
respect
and
inclusion
and
good
process.
Although
I
know
I
get
it
has
come
at
the
expense
of
a
lot
of
people's
time
so
and
we
understand
that
we
spend
some
time
on
stuff.
A
So
we
we
totally
value
what
you
have
given
us
and
I
guess.
We
also
recognize
that
I
guess
we're
not
there
yet,
but
we've
made
some
huge
progress
and
that
some
of
you
are
willing
to
keep
going
is
hugely
helpful
kind
of
essential
actually
to
the
success
of
this.
So
but
we
can't
thank
you
enough
for
that
yeah.
This
is
one
of
the
more
functional
bodies.
I
think
I,
witnessed
in
many
years
extraordinary.
I
R
H
S
Great
well
good
evening,
mayor
and
councilmembers
we're
happy
to
be
here
and
happy
to
provide
update.
We
don't
get
a
opportunity
to
do
this
very
often
and
in
particular,
we're
also
happy
to
provide
a
update
to
the
community,
so
our
in
context
tonight.
What
we
wanted
to
cover
is
some
general
concept.
Basically
what
our
goals
are
and
also
to
hopefully
begin
the
conversation
Dancer,
why
municipal
I
mean
if
municipal
ization
and
you're
gonna
have
to
hear
me
trip
over
that
word
all
evening,
and
also
what
is
the
local
powers
place
in
our
climate
strategy?
S
S
So,
certainly
as
we
look
at
our
goals
and
our
targets,
one
of
the
basic
initiatives
that
really
kicked
off
the
city's
desire
to
form
its
own
electric
utility
was
the
idea
of
moving
more
rapidly
to
a
clean
electric
supply.
And
we
certainly
in
talking
about
doing
that,
one
to
recognize
the
great
work
that
Elle
has
done.
I
mean
they
have
set
some
admirable
goals
and
are
going
to
be
doing
great
things
if
they
can
actually
meet
those
requirements.
S
But,
along
with
that
value,
there
are
other
components
of
the
of
a
local
electric
utility
that
we
have
really
been
working
to
communicate
to
the
community,
because
it's
not
just
about
the
power
supply,
which
it
really
did,
allow
us
and
would
allow
us
to
get
200%
faster,
even
with
the
goals
that
Excel
is
trying
to
fulfill.
But
it
really
comes
down
to
that.
Local
control
and
local
control
gives
the
community
the
opportunity
to
weigh
in
on
the
actions
that
the
local
electric
utility
takes,
and
some
examples
of
that
are
large
and
some
are
small.
S
A
good
small
example
is,
as
you
drive
through
cities
such
as
Longmont
or
for
Collins
you'll
notice.
All
the
artwork
on
the
transformer
and
the
switchgear
boxes,
well
that
that's
actually
a
community
driven
initiative
that
saves
the
utility
money
graffiti
artists
won't
go
tagged,
somebody
else's
artwork,
so
the
city's,
the
Utilities
Commission
local
artists
go
out
and
paint
those
boxes,
and
there
are
some
amazing
pieces
of
artwork
so
as
I
Drive
around
Boulder
and
I.
S
Looking
at
those
boxes
here
with
the
tagging
on
them
and
with
all
that,
I
see
a
whole
bunch
of
blank
canvases
and
just
an
opportunity
to
do
something
small
but
important
in
the
community.
But
we
talk
about
the
bigger
things
that
local
control
can
provide
to
us.
It's
things
like
your
neighbor
has
great
solar
access,
and
you
don't
so.
Why
can't
we
create
an
opportunity
for
the
neighbor
with
great
solar
access
to
provide
that
to
both
themselves
and
to
their
neighbors?
You
can't
do
that.
We
can't
do
that
today.
S
We
don't
have
any
right
to
set
those
rules
and
would
not
allow
you
to
do
that.
Even
bigger
microgrids.
The
ability
to
designate
portions
of
town
where
micro-grid
in
a
emergency
situation
well
could
really
help
the
community
stay
functional
during
an
emergency.
I
mean
if
you
look
today,
what's
going
on
in
Northern,
California
800,000
customers
with
a
forced
outage,
I
just
was
reading
an
article
this
evening
talking
about
they're
having
to
set
up
charging
centers
PG&E
is
setting
up
charging
centers
for
people's
cell
phone.
S
None
of
the
street
lights
are
working,
none
of
the
signal
lights
are
working
and
if
we
have
the
opportunity
for
during
a
crisis,
whatever
the
reason
of
an
outage
to
set
up
community
centers
and
ensure
they're
powered
again,
that's
not
anything.
The
city
can
do
today,
so
that
level
of
local
control
goes
from
the
very
small
type
projects
and
elements
to
the
really
big
things.
S
Certainly,
I
am
astounded
by
the
fact
that
we're
talking
about
increasing
sales
of
electricity
after
30
years
of
trying
to
convince
our
communities
to
use
less
and
all
of
a
sudden
the
trend
is.
We
want
people
to
use
more
in
the
right
way
of
clean
electricity.
So
as
we
move
forward,
it's
those
values
that
we
know,
it's
really
important,
that
we
start
communicating
those
to
the
community
and
ensuring
that
they
understand
it's,
not
just
the
value
of
being
able
to
get
to
clean
our
electric
supply
quicker.
S
N
I
think
it
keeps
us
on
track.
Could
you
just
give
us
like
one
minute
Steve
on
on
that
chart?
You
have
on
the
right
as
far
as
the
local
generation.
Can
you
explain
to
me
at
least
why
we
can't
move
I,
think
we're
at
53
right
now,
53
minutes
into
IBM
facility
or
a
little
over
50
right
a
little
bit
a
little
so
we'd
be
what
prevents
us
I
got
your
point
about
sharing
between
neighbors
I,
get
the
rules
on
that,
but
prevents
us
from
going
from
fifty
to
a
hundred
to
one
seventy-five.
S
S
Those
are
typically
capped
and
also
when
we
look
at
things
like
solar,
Gardens,
community
solar
guard,
the
excel
only
allocates
through
their
selection
X
number
of
megawatts
of
solar
Gardens
in
Colorado
in
any
given
year,
and
for
a
number
of
years
we
have
been
in
trying
to
get
allotted
part
of
that
capacity
in
order
to
do
a
solar
garden
to
supply
the
Boulder
housing
partners.
Projects
this
year,
we're
actually
moving
forward
with
just
developing
our
own
solar
project,
with
the
energy
input
independent
EOF
fund,
which
is
the
marijuana
money
that
goes
into
that,
but
because.
L
A
S
N
R
S
So
certainly,
we
have
gone
through
and
we've
taken
a
look
and
as
we
move
towards
forming
the
electric
utility
we
went
out
and
we
did
request
for
indicative
pricing
for
power
supply
and
our
goal
was
to
see
if
those
kind
of
prices
were
available
to
load
the
size
of
boulders.
And
we
were
very
pleased
to
see
that
they
were
and
the
bids
we
received
would
bring
us
to
90
percent
renewables.
S
N
This
is
just
yes
or
no
question.
Have
you
if
we,
if
we,
if
we
moved
over
that
quickly
to
capture
a
hundred
percent,
have
you
done
it
back
the
envelope
on
what
that
might
then
result
in
on
the
stranded
cloth
side
of
things?
In
other
words,
if
we
weren't
purchasing
from
Xcel,
because
we
wanted
to
get
to
that
place
fast
or
have
you
done
a
calculation
about
what
that
would
mean
for
stranded
costs?
It's.
S
N
S
But
what
we
want
to
present
to
the
voters
in
2020
or
20
21
is
really
the
key
costs
associated
with
standing
up
the
utility.
We
want
to
be
able
to
confidently
tell
them
whether
the
utility
is
financially
viable
thing
to
do
or
not.
If
we
do
run
into
financial
analysis,
it
indicates
to
us
that
this
is
not
a
viable
program
to
be
pursuing,
certainly
we'll
be
having
that
conversation
as
well.
S
The
areas
that
we're
really
focused
on,
as
you
have
heard
before,
is
the
engineering
we
have
hired
two
engineering
groups,
one
to
do
the
distribution
work
another
to
do
the
substation
work
that
are
actively
working
on
the
city's
construction
that
will
be
doing
to
separate
the
utilities.
Excel
has
done
exactly
the
same
thing:
they
have
a
distribution
engineer
on
board
and
they
are
about
to
kick
off
with
a
substation
engineer
and
I.
Do
want
to
comment
that
the
engineers
are
all
getting
along
great.
S
S
Parts
and
pieces
we're
continuing
with
the
financial
analysis
CIL
get
you
on
here
to
my
right
has
been
working
diligently
and,
as
we
get
updated,
cost
we'll
be
updating
that
financial
forecast
tool
that
we
have
online
we're
also
preparing
the
RFP
for
release
for
standing
up
the
utilities.
We
have
previously
done
a
request
for
qualifications
and
identified
a
handful
of
firms
out
there
that
really
can
operate
a
utility
they
do.
The
different
functions
will
be
going
out
for
a
formal
request
for
proposals
in
order
to
get
a
price
for
them.
S
Doing
that
and
the
reason
we're
doing
that
is.
It
would
be
almost
impossible
to
just
stand
up
at
utility
fundamentally
overnight,
to
have
our
own
line,
crews
to
have
our
own
billing
systems
and
outage
systems
and
SCADA
systems.
So
the
idea
would
be
to
bring
on
these
companies
that
that's
what
they
do
in
over
a
period
of
time,
transition
to
a
city
workforce
that
runs
and
operates
the
utilities.
S
We
are
actively
moving
forward
with
community
communication
engagement
and
really
trying
to
communicate
where
we
are
so
that
the
community
understands
we've
been
doing
quarterly
updates
and
certainly
a
lot
of
conversations
with
different
groups
around
the
community
to
ensure
that
we're
getting
the
word
out
and,
of
course,
there's
legal
action
taking
place.
Don's
gonna
give
you
an
update
about
today.
I'll.
I
Be
brief,
the
the
short
is
the
Commission
today
closed
the
case
involving
the
city
of
Boulder,
that
we
have
completed
all
the
conditions
that
the
Commission
imposed
on
us.
They
went
through,
who
spent
about
a
half
an
hour
going
through
the
three
conditions
that
they
didn't
posed
in
their
September
2017
order.
They
said
they're
all
completed,
slow
down.
You.
I
Back
in
July
of
2015,
the
boulder
district
court
said
that
we
had
to
go
to
the
Public
Utilities
Commission
and
have
them
approve
the
separation
of
the
assets
from
Xcel.
Before
we
could
go
to
condemnation
so
in
in
in
2015,
we
filed
our
first
application.
We
went
through
various
legal
maneuvering.
It
took
two
years
to
get
to
our
final
application.
In
July
of
2017,
we
had
a
trial,
an
eight-day
trial
in
late
July,
early
August
of
2017,
the
Commission
in
September
of
2017
issued
an
order.
That
said,
we
had
three
conditions
to
comply
with.
I
So
today
the
Commission
said
that
we
had
met
all
of
those
conditions
in
September.
They
issue
an
order.
The
conditions
related
to
assets
outside
of
substations
in
September.
They
issued
an
order
relating
to
assets
inside
the
substations,
and
so
today
they
they
don't
usually
do
this.
They
took
the
step
of
saying
this
case
is
closed.
We
are
done
and
so
that
Li,
that
removes
the
last
barrier
from
the
Commission
on
what
what
on
ours
proceeding
to
condemnation
of
the
assets.
This
was
a
major
accomplishment,
Deb
Kalish
and
Kathy
haddock.
I
Deb
Kalish
and
Kathy
haddock
should
be
here,
but
I
told
them
because
of
the
snow.
They
should
just
go
home,
they
were
down
in
the
commission,
and
so
they
deserve
a
lot
of
credit
for
all
of
the
work
they
handled
the
trial,
the
eight-day
trial
themselves,
so,
with
the
support
of
Hallinan
hardened
the
guys
there.
What
this
means
is
that
we
are
completely
free
to
condemn
the
assets
outside
of
the
substations.
I
The
the
order
in
September
said
that
the
with
respect
to
the
assets
inside
the
substations
we
had
to
reach
agreement
through
a
process
under
the
Federal
Energy
Regulatory
Commission.
We
have,
as
as
Steve
said,
the
engineers
have
worked
out
with
excels
engineers.
All
of
the
conditions
for
separating
under
under
our
proposal,
the
city
will
build
new
substations
and
and
have
distribution
assets
in
three
of
excels.
Current
substations
Excel
is
insisting
that
we
have
to
have
an
Operations
agreement
and
we're
trying
to
work
through
that.
I
If
we
cannot
get
through
that
agreement,
we
may
have
to
go
to
FERC
to
ask
them
to
bless
what
we've
done,
but
we're
hoping
we
can
get
to
that
agreement
or
working
on
it.
We
have
to
decide
whether
we
just
go
for
condemnation
of
assets
in
outside
of
the
substations
or
whether
we
try
to
get
the
whole
thing
done
and
go
for
that.
What
we
filed
previously-
yes,
it's
both
inside
and
outside
the
substations.
I
Remember
substations
are
incredibly
important,
but
the
list
of
assets
outside
the
substation
is
a
hundred
and
forty
thousand
lines
long.
The
list
of
assets
inside
the
statisticians
is
a
couple
of
hundred
lines
long.
So
we
have
final
approval
on
the
vast
majority
of
the
assets
and
we
are
proceeding
and
Steve
will
show
you
some
pretty
exciting,
diagrams
I.
Think
on
where
what
we're
looking
at
in
terms
of
but
I
was
very
worried
that
we
were
gonna
have
more
producing
proceedings.
I
We
have
no
more
PUC
proceedings,
we
are
absolutely
done
with
them
and
they
are
seem
to
be
happy
to
be
done
with
us
as
well
and
I.
You
know
the
I
want
to
say
the
Commission
one
we
brought
to
their
attention.
We
tried
to
negotiate
this
and
go
to
Excel
without
go
with
to
the
Commission
without
any
disputes
with
Excel,
when
we
brought
this
this
to
the
Commission
I.
Think
in
August
they
actually
move
very
quickly
to
get
this
done
for
us.
So
there
are
a
lot
of
people
who
are.
A
A
I
We've
been
in
the
process
of
working
through
the
FERC
process
for
assets
inside
of
the
substations,
for
about
six
or
seven
months
now,
and
we
are
well
along
in
that
process.
The
thing
that
that
is
holding
us
up
right
now
is,
what's
called
an
Operations
agreement,
so
the
engineers
have
decided
who
gets
which
assets,
how
they're
divided,
where
things
are
who
how
it
functions,
and
it
should
be
clear,
we're
not
talking
about
doing
any
colocation
in
any
substation.
The
only
colocation
will
be
the
the
very
thing
that's
necessary.
I
I
said
what
a
substation
does
is
it
connects
the
transmission
systems
of
the
distribution
system?
Excel
will
have
all
the
transmission
assets.
The
only
asset
distribution
assets
will
be
boulders
in
the
stations
that
we
are
sharing
with
them.
So
there's
no
coal,
okay,
so
the
the
last
step
is
to
have
an
agreement
on
how
you
operate
between
one
who
can
go
and
where
who
can
touch
what
these
it's
called
a
operation
agreement.
I
We
actually
do
this
now
because
we
have
a
little
mini
substation
up
at
Boulder
hydro
through
which,
through
which
we
sell
electricity
to
Excel,
and
we
have
an
operation
agreement.
So
this
should
not
be
rocket
science,
but
we're
working
this
last
piece
with
Excel
dealing
with
Excel
was
not
the
easiest
thing
in
the
world,
and
so
we're
I
have
faith
that
we
can
get
it
that
way.
I
You
can't
say
you
can't
be
on
my
system
and
they're
very
strictly
regulated
to
treat
everybody
the
same,
and
so
while
we
can
get
all
sorts
of
things,
they
can't
treat
us
different
than
any
other
customer
and
so
well
we're
trying
to
work
through
how
we
do
this
and
we've
got
meetings
committee
scheduled
with
them
next
week
and
Steve
has
been
working
with
the
engineers
now
I
think
for
six
or
seven
months
so
we're
getting
there.
That's
that's
one
way
to
do
it.
The
other
way
is
if
we
reach
an
impasse.
I
Our
FERC
lawyer
has
advised
that
there's
a
process
we
can
go
through,
which
should
not
be
very
difficult.
Basically,
the
complaint
saying
they're
discriminating
against
us.
You
have
to
let
us
do
this.
The
other
thing
is
that
it's
almost
to
the
extent
of
silliness
at
this
point,
because
for
the
three
substations
we're
talking
about
and
I
can't
identify
them
because
of
security
reasons,
but
for
the
three
that
we're
talking
about.
I
If
we
were
to
build
one,
we
probably
would
have
difficult
getting
it
approved
because
we'd
have
to
explain
why
we
weren't
using
the
one-
that's
right
next
to
it,
because
it
would
just
be
silly.
So
we
are
to
that
level
of
absurdity,
but
we
will
continue
to
work
through
this
again.
We've
we
passed
a
major
milestone
today,
we're
still
moving
forward.
Now
Steve
was
talking
about
twenty,
twenty,
twenty
or
twenty.
I
Twenty-One
I
think
twenty
twenty
is
looking
very
unlikely
right
now,
I
mean
I
think
we
should
I
was
trying
to
get
condemnation
started
by
May
we
actually
filed
in
July,
because
we
thought
that
was
our
last
opportunity
that
was
dismissed.
I
think
that
we
will
probably
advise
the
new
council
to
prepare
for
an
election
in
2021,
but
we're
going
to
do
that.
Obviously,
when
the
new
council
seated
no
disrespect,
of
course,
to
the
current
council
but
they're
the
ones
gonna
have
to
live
with
that
decision.
I
So
Lisa
I
know
I'm
looking
at
you,
but
I
just
wanted
to
be
clear.
That's
that's
that's
been
sort
of
in
the
background
all
along.
We
have
been
working
really
hard
to
make
2020
I.
Just
don't
think
it's
possible
to
get
a
condemnation
done
in
time
too
adequately
inform
the
voters
of
what
the
the
costs
will
be.
Other
questions.
S
And
that
religious
brings
us
to
what's
next
and
we
will
continue
working
on
developing
these
costs
associated
with
standing
up
the
utility
acquiring
all
of
the
assets
and
how
much
it's
going
to
cost
to
separate
the
system,
along
with
a
series
of
other
costs
that
we
recognize
and
we
typically
identify
those
as
high
impact
or
high
risk
variables,
and
those
are
things
that
we
know
are
out
there
that
we
don't
know
the
cost
of
them.
Yet
things
like
strand
it
cost,
which
you
were
asking
about.
S
Another
potential
cost
is
going
concern,
which
is
the
value
of
lost
business.
That
would
be
determined
in
condemnation
court,
but
you
know,
Tom
can
certainly
address
the
lack
of
precedence
in
Colorado
for
awarding
those
going
concerns,
but
that's
a
value
that
will
come
out
of
condemnation
and
could
be
high
and
could
impact
the
viability
of
moving
forward
with
forming
the
utility.
The
other
things
are
things
like
interest
rates.
If
interest
rates
go
up
too
high,
then
it
certainly
could
create
a
situation
where
we
just
can't
afford
to
do
this.
N
Maybe
it
submitted
in
one
of
the
things
that's
on
the
slide
there,
but
last
I
remember,
is
our
back.
The
envelope
estimate
of
the
separation
costs
we're
in
the
zip
code
of
110
million
dollars.
I
guess
the
question
is
well
number
one.
Is
that
so
kind
of
you're
working
number
and
secondly,
will
that
be
refined
at
some
point
in
time?
But
you
know:
what's
the
process
I
guess
we're
refunding
that
and
getting
more
detail
around
that
so.
S
The
from
our
engineers
near
here
the
end
of
November,
we
should
have
90
percent
designs
done
and
we
will
receive
a
90%
estimate
from
our
distribution
engineers
of
substation,
maybe
a
little
bit
longer
because
of
the
process
tom
was
talking
about.
Excel
has
committed
to
having
engineering
cost
to
us
for
separation
by
May
1st
of
next
year.
So
at
that
point
we
should
have
a
much
better
number
and
then
we
will
be
going
out
for
bit.
S
N
S
I
So
so
Bob
you
asked
about
stranding
cost
and
I
want
us
to
go
back
a
little
bit
because
people
talk
about
stranded
costs
and
they
include
a
lot
of
things
that
are
not
really
stranded
cost.
The
stranded
cost
was
a
deal
that
the
FERC
made
with
the
transmission
providers
years
ago.
In
an
order
that
basically
said
if
someone
departs
your
system,
you
have
to
let
them
use
your
system,
but
the
quid-pro-quo
was
that
wasn't,
for
that
was
yeah.
They
have
to
pay
for
any
generation
that
you
acquired
in
to
anticipation
of
serving
their
load.
I
So
0.1
stranded
costs
is
only
generation
costs
and
you
only
owe
stranded
costs
if
you're
a
departing
customer,
and
you
continue
to
use
the
transmission
system.
You
can
also
reduce
your
strata
costs
by
continuing
to
buy
power
from
the
prior
provider,
because,
obviously
you're
not
stranding
that
asset,
you
can
pay
strata
costs
in
one
of
two
ways.
You
can
make
a
lump
sum
payment
or
you
can
pay
it
as
part
of
your
transmission
cost
over
the
period
going
forward
the
anticipated
period
of
your
using
it.
I
So
when
people
talk
about
a
huge
number,
it's
not
a
huge
number
like
you
have
to
pay
to
acquire
the
assets.
It's
a
huge
number.
That's
spread
over
the
utility
bills.
For
a
period
of
time,
we
have
looked
at
stranded
costs
in
several
different
ways.
One
of
the
ways
the
analysis
we've
had
to
do
is
is
the
benefit
of
buying
power
from
Excel
justified
to
reduce
the
stranded
cost
obligation.
I
On
the
back
end
and
right
now,
with
the
lower
cost
of
renewables
that
we
got
in
a
request
for
indicative
pricing,
it
looks
like
it's
probably
more
financially
feasible
to
pay
out
stranded
costs.
If
we
have
to
then
continuing
on
the
Excel
system
and
again,
yellow
probably
knows
these
numbers
a
lot
better
than
I.
Do
do
you?
I
D
S
I
did
want
to
comment.
I've
talked
about
it's
a
very
simple
formula
and
that's
the
formula
for
calculating
stranded
cost,
but
it's
the
identification
of
those
values
that
gets
very
difficult
things
like
the
competitive
market
value,
which
is
how
much
can
Excel
sell
any
energy
we
free
out
onto
the
market
the
length
of
the
obligation,
the
multiplier
here.
Well,
in
our
mind,
we
notified
Excel
that
we
were
leaving
the
system
as
soon
as
the
community
voted
not
to
renew
their
franchise.
S
Excel
is
going
to
recognize
that
we
didn't
know
if
I
am
till
after
the
go
no-go
vote.
So
that's
going
to
be
a
contentious
point
of
the
revenue
stream
estimate,
so
it's
a
simple
formula
that
the
variables
are
very
difficult
to
pin
down.
So
yes,
we've
done
calculations
and
they
might
end
up
owing
us
money,
I'm
being
facetious
on
that
and
it
is.
It
is
a
high
risk
variable
that
our
strategy
will
be
to
really
identify
worst
case
by
pinning
down
these
numbers.
D
Just
wanted
to
add
one
important
point,
which
is
one
of
the
things
that
it
said
he
says
here
is
that
Excel
does
have
a
duty
to
mitigate
that
straining
cost
claim
by
trying
to
resell
that
capacity
to
another
customer.
So
that's
that's
just
a
really
important
point
as
well,
and
we
track
very
closely
all
their
electric
resource
plans
and
there
were
noble
energy
plans.
We
have
Matt
Lehrman
on
our
staff,
who's
actively
intervening
in
testimony
and
really
tracking
those
numbers
and
doing
these
calculations.
So
that's
a
moving
target
depending
on
what
their
capacity
is.
S
N
You
know
I
get
everything
that
sometimes
that
easy
explained
to
us
before
so
I
think
we
all
understand
how
this
works
and
I
get
the
fact
that
it
could
change
from
month
to
month
or
year
to
year,
depending
upon
that
I.
Just
because
there's
a
lot
of
excitement
about
the
indicative
pricing
and
so
I
guess,
they're
gonna
make
a
cost-benefit
analysis,
which
is
to
say
well,
there's
an
economic
cost-benefit
analysis
and
there's
a
social
cost
benefit
analysis
which
is
getting
green,
which
is
what
our
overall
goal
here
is
right.
N
So
we're
gonna
weigh
those
in
I,
guess
what
we
may
all
do
them,
whether
it's
a
big
fat
check
up
front
or
overtime,
I,
get
that
I
guess.
Finally,
just
a
procedural
question
we're
talking
about
you
know
this
go
no-go
vote
in
20
or
20
or
maybe
more
likely
2021,
and
we
want
to
try
to
give
community
as
much
information
as
possible.
Do
we
anticipate
whatever
that
vote
is
to
try
to
have
an
of
what
if
any,
firm
assess
strata
cost
there
might
be?
Is
that
our
goal,
or
is
our
goal
to
kind
of
say?
N
M
Yet
so
question,
so
you
said
that
the
straining
costs
are
due
for
things
that
go
over
the
transmission
lines.
So
is
it
the?
Is
it
the
case
that
if
we
were
to
build
additional
like
solar
resources
within
the
city
that
we
would
no
longer
be
required
to
pay
strand
costs
for
the
power
that
we
were
no
longer
buying
from
the
transmission
system?
Yeah,
that's
I've
missed
that
wrinkle.
O
A
L
Yeah,
so
we
were
missing
a
council
member
at
least
one
tonight
and
I
told
him.
I
would
Channel
for
him,
so
this
is
I'm
Steve,
I'm,
Sam,
Weaver
channeling,
and
so
he
wanted
to
say
start
off
with
this
whole
context
about
what's
happening
out
in
California,
Pacific,
Gas
and
Electric,
and
that
it's
cut
off
power
to
that
yesterday
and
today-
and
you
said,
800,000
customers,
and
so
it
means
electrical
meters
which
affects
millions
of
human
beings.
L
Think
of
those
who
depend
on
electric
wheelchairs,
oxygen
systems,
how
sites
and
communication
devices
and
now
have
no
source
of
convenient
electricity
monopolies.
For-Profit
electricity
suppliers
have
three
constituencies
their
stake
holders
their
ratepayers,
not
necessarily
willing
customers
and
the
regulator's
municipal
electricity
providers,
as
well
as
Rural
Electric
associations,
are
also
typically
distribution.
Monopolies
with
one
crucial
difference.
The
management
practices
of
these
Muni
and
Rea
systems
are
directly
decided
democratically.
At
the
local
ballot
box.
The
voters
can
determine
the
power
procurement
practices
and
planning
of
their
local
distribution
system,
which
is
crucial
to
the
three
DS.
L
That
Boulder
is
pursuing
decarbonisation
decentralization
and
democratization.
The
management
practice
is
a
vertically
integrated
form,
profit
monopoly.
Electric
utilities
are
negotiated
with
state
legislatures
and
public
utilities,
Commission's,
which
is
a
much
less
direct,
less
transparent
and
less
effective
control
system
than
local
control.
L
Municipal
electric
systems
have
rates
that
are
typically
fifteen
percent
lower
than
investor
owned
utilities
like
Excel,
because
shareholder
profits
is
not
in
the
picture
that
extra
margin
can
be
invested
by
municipal
systems
and
under
grounding
of
wires,
which
I've
tried
to
get
Excel
to
do
for
over
ten
years.
Micro
grids
and
other
community
serving
resilience
measures.
Many
have
died
tragically
in
PG&E
territory
due
to
their
poor
investment,
as
evidenced
by
their
current
bankruptcy
and
current
intentional
power
outages
to
prevent
more
loss
of
life
and
liability.
L
We
can
choose
to
join
with
more
resilient
and
reliable
communities
with
local
control
of
their
power
systems,
as
our
staff
has
done
a
great
job
to
the
perennial
critics
of
our
Muni
efforts.
I
will
quote
staff
over
the
past
several
years.
Boulder
and
City
taxpayers
have
invested
valuable
resources
to
strengthening
an
energy
code
codes,
begin
climate,
friendly
transportation
initiatives,
work
with
local
and
regional
partners
to
advocate
for
regulatory
changes
and
many
other
initiatives.
L
As
a
result,
the
city's
most
recent
greenhouse
gas
inventory
for
2018
indicated
that
the
city
had
achieved
an
18%
reduction
in
greenhouse
emissions,
which
is
what
Steve
pointed
out,
and
this
is
fantastic
progress
and
thanks
to
the
boulder
community
for
supporting
it
excels
resource.
Electric
resource
plan,
as
currently
filed
calls
for
a
45%
fossil
fuel
supply
in
2027,
yet
its
state
requirements
will
be
80
percent
emissions,
reductions
from
a
2005
baseline
by
2030.
A
few
questions.
How
does
Xcel
plan
to
bridge
this
huge
divide
between
2027
and
2030?
L
L
Why
on
earth
is
a
and
everybody
else
I
honor
this
excel?
In
the
face
of
this
legislation
trying
to
acquire
ownership
of
400
megawatts
of
natural
gas
fossil
methane
generation,
given
that
even
with
modest
leakage
rates,
fossil
methane
is
more
deadly
to
our
planet
than
burning
coal?
Why
would
we
be
perpetuating
either?
What
is
the
city
perspective
on
this
acquisition?
How
are
we
choose
pursuing
our
position
if
we
are
forced
to
remain
with
Excel
or
the
voters
of
polder
chose
to
do
so?
L
Is
there
a
pathway
to
require
that
boulders
share
of
the
electricity
generation
is
done
with
no
carbon
emissions?
Given
that
carbon
free
electricity
generating
technologies
are
now
cheaper
than
coal,
how
can
we
enable
more
local
input
into
an
excels
energy
mix?
How
can
Boulder
participate
with
reviewing
and
commenting
on
the
current
state
and
future
plans
for
our
city
distribution
system?
Why
did
Excel
not
work
on
a
path
toward
a
local
input
mechanism
in
the
2017
settlement
negotiations?
I
think
we
all
know
good
staff
once
again
explain
our
options
for
about
stranded
cost.
L
Okay,
they've
done
that
perennial
Muni
critics
claim
that
we
do
not
understand
this
process.
So
a
few
sentences
which
I
appreciate
about
what
the
risks
and
opportunities
are
around
strand
costs
would
be
great.
It's
clear
that
the
largest
cost
will
be
determined
in
condemnation
court,
but
those
bringing
up
fear
uncertainty.
Doubt
issues
continue
to
harp
on
stranded
assets
issues.
L
Please
speak
a
bit
about
this.
Finally,
one
of
the
persistent
critics
of
our
clean
electricity
works
speaks
of
carbon.
Offsets
are
often
given
that
there
is
deep
skepticism
about
these
mechanisms.
What
is
the
city
position
on
carbon
offsets,
recs
other
remote
actions,
so
that's
that
Sam
and
I
pretty
much
did
Oh
everything
he
says
and
the
whole
carbon
offsets
seems
like
just
putting
off
the
inevitable
so
well.
Maybe
can
you
speak
to
the
carbon
offsets
and
nights
and
send
you
this
yeah?
We
were
asleep
at.
S
So
the
carbon
offsets,
the
wind
source
program
is
actually
selling
the
recs,
which
are
different
than
carbon
offsets.
Carbon
offsets
are
really
you're
buying
the
reduction
of
an
emission,
a
rec
is
you're
flying
into
a
renewable
energy
credit.
The
wind
farms
that
are
sold
as
part
of
wind
source
were
built
in
2007
and
2008.
S
2006
and
2007
so
really
a
few
buy
into
wind
source
today,
you're
not
buying
any
additional
reduction
in
emissions,
you're
really
just
buying
into
something
that
already
exists
out
there
in
the
world
and
so
you're,
not
creating
new
renewable
resources
out
there.
You're
just
investing
in
that.
I
did
also
want
to
point
this
out
in
relation
to
Sam's
other
question.
This
is
a
slide
that
map
prepared
that
shows
the
anticipated
retirement
dates
for
excels
resources.
S
Now
this
is
under
their
current
electric
resource
plan,
not
accelerated
retirements
in
order
to
meet
their
2030
goal
the
so
in
order
to
meet
that
2030
goal,
they're
going
to
have
to
shift
or
accelerate
those
retirements
which
are
costs
that
they
are
asking,
we
continue
to
pay
the
profit.
We
continue
to
pay
off
these
plants
that
wouldn't
be
running
and
actually
possibly
accelerate
the
payment
of
those
plants.
So
it
is
interesting.
S
We
don't
know
currently
what
they're
scheduled
early
retirement
would
be
for
these
plants
and
order
to
meet
that
goal,
but
we
do
know
what
their
current
plan
is
for
those
retirements
and
and
as
they
file
as
we
file
as
they
file
their
plans.
We'll
be
able
to
do
a
better
analysis
of
what's
happening
there.
What's.
M
N
As
long
as
we're
channeling
councilmembers
on
here,
I'm
Mary
centered,
a
hotline
post
as
well
I'm
not
going
to
read
Mary's
hotline
posting,
it
was
shorter
than
what
it
was
still
a
good
one.
I'd
like
to
recommend
Mary
asked
a
lot
of
really
really
good
kind
of
philosophical
questions
and
I
think
not
tonight.
Obviously,
but
it's
probably
worthy.
You
know
and
I
think
we
had
some
of
these
discussions.
We
started
so
many
discussions
at
the
really
really
great
study
session.
N
Well,
I,
don't
know
it's
up
to
somebody
else
that
early
on
and
the
new
council
that
some
of
the
questions
I
think
Mary
posed
and
that
you'd,
some
of
you
folks,
the
staff
posed
in
July
be
teed
up
for
a
probably
a
deep
dive
study
session
sometime
in
the
first
quarter,
works.
I.
Think
those
are
you
know,
as
the
lawyers
do.
The
lawyer
thing
I
think
it's
a
good
time
for
us
to
maybe
take
a
pause
now
that
we're
outside
the
PUC
and
kind
of
reflect
on
some
of
the
questions
that
Mary
asked.
S
N
Not
such
a
thought
is
just
a
preview.
You,
you
have
a
revised
version
of
the
of
the
table
from
the
the
memo
with
regards
to
financials
I
have
some
questions
which
I'm
not
gonna
ask
tonight
about
use
of
the
general
fund
reserves
I
think
what
I'll
do
is
I'll
reserve
reserve,
no
pun
intended
those
questions
for
Jane.
If
you
don't
mind
the
budget
session
we're
gonna
have
next
week,
would
that
be
a
good
time
to
ask
questions
about
the
reserve
and
the
use
of
the
reserve?
N
A
A
The
we
know
that,
given
the
urgency
of
climate,
that
we
really
don't
have
time
to
waste
and
I
will
be
doing
whatever
I
can
in
my
remaining
six
weeks,
but
also
as
a
citizen
after
that
to
help
see
if
we
can't
move
through
the
remaining
process
to
get
back
to
the
people
with
that
number
and
I
guess.
I'll.
Just
note
that
we
have
a
lot
of
other
ambitions
in
this
city
like
around
broadband
and
the
fate
of
these
two
efforts
are
intertwined
and
our
could
be
greatly.
A
There's
a
there's,
a
great
synergy
there,
which
Longmont
is
demonstrating
right
now
in
terms
of
the
cheapness
of
what
they're
able
to
provide
and
also
the
reliability.
And
it's
it's
sort
of
a
a
forecast
of
where
we
could
also
go
and
I
know
that
they
are
now
a
leader
Elmo
nationally
on
that
front,
and
we
could
be
too
if,
if
we
had
our
own
utility
Municipal
Utility.
A
This
last
session
and
I
think
it
was
important
that
we
were
part
of
that
I
think
that
will
help,
but
not
only
Boulder,
but
the
rest
of
the
state
moved
forward
and
I
think
we're
gonna
be
talking
in
a
few
weeks
at
the
legislative
committee
about.
What's
what
are
the
next
steps
in
terms
of
moving
that
ball
forward,
and
we
will
continue
to
play
ball
at
the
state
level
and
that's
important
as
well
and
I'll.
Note,
finally,
that
all
that
work,
however,
will
be
for
not
long
won't,
say
we
for
naught.
A
But
if
we're
going
to
realize
the
the
fruit
of
those
Labor's,
we
actually
have
to
make
sure
all
the
rule
makings
that
it
would
implement
that
legislation
work
out.
We
need
to
be
down
there,
participating
in
them
and
I'll
just
say
just
because
you
make
a
pledge
doesn't
mean
you're
gonna
meet
the
pledge
and
all
those
Wow
I'll
give
a
shout-out
to
Excel
for
making
some
strong
pledges.
A
A
Our
new
action
plan
for
climate
there
are
hundreds
of
people
there.
It
was
one
of
the
more
heartening
open
houses.
I've
been
a
part
of
in
my
entire
time
on
council
and
there's
just
so
much
excitement,
there's
so
many
great
ideas.
There's
we
have
so
many
engaged
in
smart
people
in
this
community
and
anyhow
I
feel
hopeful
when
I
look
at
all
the
energy
in
our
community
around
these
issues
and
we're
doing
the
right
thing.
We
are
on
the
right
path
and
it's
important
that
we
that
we
continue
so
so.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
S
L
You
also
have
to
remember
all
the
combined
system
us
has
been
out
there
and
I
mean
it's
been
a
real
collaborative
process.
I
think
and
people
have
untold
thousands
of
hours
not
just
for
one
year,
but
have
done
that
repeatedly
for
years,
I
mean
we're
going
on
since
2010
when
we
said
okay,
we're
going
to
cut
our
franchise,
these
people
stood
up
and
they
together
and
they
have
helped
move
us
forward
through,
not
one
not
two,
but
how
many
five
five
elections
nest
at
least
probably
ten
items
so
I
mean
it.
L
R
L
L
Twenty-One,
but
for
other
reasons
but
I
think
everything
you
said,
Suzanne
really
puts
a
underline
on
all
of
our
efforts
and
I
would
agree
that
we
need
to
be
in
control
of
our
own
destiny
and
the
fact
that
we
are
so
regulatorily
limited
in
terms
of
what
our
options
are.
That
is
unacceptable
and
the
fact
that
we
could
really
do
something
significant
for
our
residents
in
in
making
them
feel
a
little
bit
more
confident
about
the
future
and
climate
change,
and
that's
what
it's
all
about
and
I
think
this
PG&E
incident
just
underscores.
M
S
L
He
just
basically
and
I
agree
with
them.
He
had
opportunity
zone,
used
tables
and
community
benefits,
and
that
council
has
made
a
lot
of
progress
in
community
benefit
and
that
he's
hopeful,
and
so
am
I
since
I'm,
leaving
that
we
can
convince
this
on
October,
15th
and
I.
Think
as
it's
scheduled
right
now,
we
will
and
that
we
would
also
be
able
to
complete
used
tables.
It
was
Rangel
phase.
He
made
it
very
clear
in
completing
the
phase.
L
One
of
the
used
tables
updates
that
this
council
should
be
the
ones
who
get
it
done,
but
for
him
and
for
me
to
support
such
a
method
measure
to
update
the
use
tables
and
lift
the
opportunity
zone
moratorium
that
we
want
to
see
any
development
permits
in
the
opportunity
zone
required
to
attest
formally
and
legally
whether
they
have
financial
backers
in
an
opportunity
zone
fund
and
I
brought
tonight.
I
got
a
flyer
from
my
local
realtor
about
all
the
pleasures
that
one
can
have
in
investing
in
opportunity
zone.
L
And
I
wouldn't
do
it
I?
He
will
leave
it
to
the
next
counsel
to
pursue
the
economic
analyses
for
whether
they
wanted
to
increase
levels
of
Community
Benefit
for
these
projects
and
receiving
tax
credit
benefits.
We
also
had
spoken
about
making
sure
that
we
establish
an
overlay
zone
on
all
the
housing
zones
within
the
opportunity
zone
so
that
no
demolitions
of
housing
happen
until
after
the
opportunity
zone
ceases,
which
is
2027.
A
Okay,
so
in
turn,
thank
you
for
that.
Just
for
those
of
you
not
on
CAC
I,
guess
just
a
couple
things
about
scheduling
and
that
is
I'm
not
gonna.
Be
there
next
Tuesday
I'm
going
to
eco
mobility
conference
overseas,
I
invited
any
of
y'all
to
come
and
got
no
takers
just
saying,
but
I
will
be
out
on
Tuesday
I
will
send
you
my
email,
how
I
feel
about
things.
A
The
one
thing
that
I
asked,
and
at
least
those
on
CAC
concurred,
is
if
it's
going
to
come
down
to
my
vote
about
whether
to
move
forward
or
not
that
you
all
will
hold
over
and
will
vote
at
the
next
meeting,
but
I
think
we're
coming
together
on
most
of
these
things
so
that
we
can
move
forward.
If,
for
some
reason
we
have
to
go
to
a
third
reading,
we
are
going
to
hold
all
of
you.
A
Do
we
do
this
already
about
to
have
a
but
okay?
So
we
have,
if
we
have
to
have
a
meeting
in
early
November,
just
to
finish,
to
tie
a
bull
on
these
things.
Then
we'll
do
so.
But
ideally
you
all
will
get
across
the
finish
line
on
the
15th
Mary's,
also
flying
back
that
night
and
thinks
she
can
get
to
the
meeting
by
9:30.
So
I
know
it's
just
crazy,
but
so
do
I
have
faith
that
you
all
can
tie
a
bow
on
it
on
the
15th.
M
A
H
Right
we'll
try
to
get
as
far
as
we
can
and
then
the
next
meeting
is
two
weeks
later
on
the
29th.
We
can
pass
items
that
night,
whether
by
emergency
or
maybe
they
won't
need
an
emergency
one
of
the
reasons
that
we
had
a
hard
time.
Finding
dates
is
that
there
needs
to
be
two
weeks
or
10
days,
some
amount
of
time
between
readings,
and
that
is
what
made
it
more
difficult
right.
L
A
If
it's
so,
if
we
go
to
the
29th,
we
will
still
have
to
wait
10
days,
which
is
November
8th
to
do
a
final
reading.
So
that's
an
important
detail
but
think
about
it.
This
way
with
fewer
council
members,
you
are
gonna,
have
less
talking
and
just
note
on
the
15th.
You
have
several
public
hearings
like
the
budget
to
get
through,
and
so
there's
reason
to
think
that
Mary
will
get
there
in
time
for
the
more
meaty.
Oh,
these
will
do
what
we
can
I
understand.
A
We
knew
it
was
gonna,
be
crazy,
coming
down
the
homestretch
because
of
our
ambitious
agenda,
but
the
cool
thing
about
all
this
is
and
when
you
reflect
at
all
that
we
are
getting
done
and
will
have
gotten
done,
it's
a
good
body
of
work,
so
we
are
close
to
the
end
and
we'll
have
a
lot
to
be
proud
of.
It's
just
gonna
be
a
few
more
late
nights,
okay
in
Paris,
yes,
and
on
that.