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From YouTube: HAB Meeting 5-25-22
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A
A
So
please
announce
yourself
if
you
are
present:
juliette
boone
hi,
juliet
cole
ogren
here,
hello,
hi
good
to
if
you
have
perry,
promotes
sir
jennifer
livovich.
A
I
believe
jennifer
is
absent.
Julianne
ramsey.
A
Okay,
julian,
not
here
yet
danny
teodoro.
A
A
You
have
four
agenda
review,
we'll
be
welcoming
new
planning,
bjork
board
liaisons,
we'll
introduce
them
in
a
moment
approving
the
minutes.
From
the
april
meeting,
we
have
a
public
participation
period
with
open
comment
in
about
five
minutes,
and
we
do
have.
I
think
at
least
two
people
on
board
for
that
item.
A
Six
is
matters
from
the
board:
we'll
have
an
overview
of
the
affordable
home
ownership
program
from
eric
swanson
who
manages
that
program
for
the
city,
as
well
as
a
review
of
the
2019
volvo
affordable
homeowners
survey,
we'll
be
considering
a
letter
of
the
council
emerging
action
on
that
phase.
Two
in
the
planning
reserve.
That's
something
I
drafted
for
your
consideration
this
month.
It's
not
a
policy
statement,
it's
more
like
a
a
call
to
action
and
we'll
be
discussing
our
potential
hab
retreat
in
july.
A
I
think
you've
all
heard
that
city
meetings
will
not
be
live
by
that
time.
Item
seven
matters
from
staff,
we'll
be
hearing
about
a
proposal
on
the
regional,
affordable,
housing
implementation
and
and
more
about
the
council
study
session.
Coming
up
in
october
to
discuss
middle
income
ownership
item,
eight
will
be
debating
the
meeting
and
doing
a
calendar
check
at
about
8,
50
and
adjourning
by
nine.
A
So
with
that,
I
know
we
have
our
new
planning
board.
The
liaison
john
gerstle
aboard
mark
mcintyre
who's
new.
The
planning
board
has
been
named
as
the
ultimate
supposed
to
hopefully
attend
when
john
kent
and
john.
Do
you
wanna
welcome
you?
First
of
all,
and
please
say
hi
and
introduce
yourself.
B
Thank
you,
hello,
pleasure
to
be
here
and
I'm
looking
forward
to
learning
a
lot
and
hopefully
stimulating
the
interaction
between
planning
board
and
housing
advisory
board.
I
I
understand
that
julia's
husband
is
a
colleague
of
mine
on
planning
board
anyway,
so
some
of
that
communication
may
already
be
taking
place,
but
well
he's.
B
D
E
A
That's
right
well,
welcome,
john
we're
glad
to
have
your
perspective
and
glad
to
see
you
tonight.
I
believe
you've
all
had
a
chance
item.
Four
we've
got
a
lot
of
chance
to
see
the
minutes
tiffany
sent
out
from
april
27
2022,
but
they
would
like
to
make
a
motion
to
approve
those
minutes.
F
A
Great
all
in
favor
aye,
all
aye.
A
I
believe
we
had
a
4-0
approval
vote
on
that
so
noted.
Moving
on
to
public
participation,
I
believe
we
have
ben
siegel
on
the
line,
and
you
have
30
minutes
to
comment
then
welcome
hi.
A
E
Put
it
on
one
of
the
windows,
so
I
can
see
just
one
of
the
windows
please.
I
prefer
not
to
see
a
big
looming
three
in
front
of
my
eyes,
I
like
to
see
the
faces
of
the
people,
I'm
speaking
to.
Unfortunately,
you
can't
see
mine,
but
that's
not
my
choice.
So
are
there
any
public
hearings.
C
F
I
could
hold
up
a
a
timer
to
my
next
to
my
face.
E
250
right,
so
what
the
heck
are
you
folks
doing
about
the
missing
middle
because
lynn.
A
E
Seriously,
juliet
a
little
bit
I'll
turn
my
volume
up,
but
that
doesn't
help
probably
don
altman
michael
bosma.
Stop
me
if
it
gets
faded
or
anything.
This
is
a
new
computer,
but
you
know
they
make
everything
obsolescent
these
days.
It's
a
mac
book,
air,
don
altman,
michael
mosman,
55th
street
john-
knows
all
about
this,
but
that
was
supposed
to
be
missing
middle
and
that
is
a
paradigm
for
the
problem
in
boulder.
E
These
developers
are
holding
you
up
for
ransom
to
say
we
can't
afford
to
do
our
thing
unless
we
have
25
units
instead
of
14
and
that
makes
them
800
feet
and
that
puts
them
into
the
non-middle
category.
We
just
can't
afford
to
do
it.
Well,
you
know
I'm
sure,
there's
someone
out
there
that
will
accept
less
and
when
planning
board
just
keeps
on
handing
over
a
another
third
story:
a
height
restriction
limit
lifted.
You
know
a
floodplain
thing
at
the
millennium,
affordable
housing
and
at
olive
you
know.
E
Oh
sorry,
our
parking
had
our
parking
structures
there.
We
had
to
use
up
the
affordable
housing
with
that.
So
we'll
give
it
to
you
in
lou.
There
should
be
no
more
in
lieu
as
of
decades
ago,
no
more
in
lieu.
You
know
we
don't
need
more
people
commuting
to
boulder
and
then
congesting
our
town
from
the
outlying
community
sprawl.
E
That's
not
that's,
not
an
objective
here.
If
you
can
afford
a
living
boulder
you
can
afford
to,
but
stop
driving
the
price
up.
You
need
to
advise
planning
board
not
to
give
any
subsidies.
Stop
already
stop
it's.
So
it's
so
disheartening.
You
ought
to
go
to
some
planning
board
meetings
and
watch
this.
It's
just
obscene
one
thing
after
another
and
the
the
developers
pleading
that
they
they
just
can't
afford
it.
You
know
well
too
bad.
Sorry,
you
know,
go
somewhere
else.
Go!
E
Do
some
development
in
new
york,
city
or
somewhere,
but
in
our
town
we
have
restrictions,
and
I
know
it's
going
to
be
expensive
anyway,
but
guess
what
it's
more
expensive,
with
it
with
the
product
that
you've
got
potentially
with
don
altman
and
michael
bosma
on
55th
street.
That's
going
to
make
it
plenty
worse.
If
you
offered
him
14
units
now
the
planning
board
didn't
approve
it.
E
Yet
so
john,
don't
get
upset,
you
know,
but
the
fact
that
he
even
could
suggest
after
up
at
311,
he's
making
10
to
50
000
a
month
for
over
a
hundred
guests
there.
This
is
like
upper
end
resort
community
and
for
every
high-end
place
you
get
you
get
all
the
support,
people
that
you
need
to
support
that
high-end
place
and
guess
where
they
live
outside
of
the
city.
We
need
the
jobs,
housing
balance
balance.
It's
not
it's
a
huge
imbalance.
E
Why
aren't
you
doing
something?
Instead,
all
you're
fighting
for
is
more
and
more
housing
and
it's
more
and
more
expensive.
Even
the
mobile
homes
are
on
fixed
foundations.
You
know
it's
just
not
working,
so
why
not
try
something
that
does,
and
that
is
stop
paying
the
developers
to
build
here.
Let
them
explain.
E
A
Thank
you,
lynn.
The
missing
middle
is
very
much
on
the
agenda
tonight
and
you'll
be
hearing
more
about
it.
I
believe
we
have
another
public
commenter
dan.
So
first,
let
me
welcome
danny.
He
did
join
us
benny
chandler,
our
vice
chair
and
kurt
penn
neighbor
of
the
city
department
of
housing
as
well,
not
a
board
member
but
happy
to
have
you
here,
kurt
dan.
Are
you
on
for
comment.
A
D
Great,
I'm
not
sure
I
just
put
in
the
chat
channel
there's
an
article
that
was
in
the
colorado
daily
today.
I
don't
know
if
folks
had
a
chance
to
look
at
that.
D
But
I
haven't
read
it
yet:
okay,
so
I've
spoken
with
council
before
and
the
person
who
wrote
this.
His
name
is
adam
perry.
Maybe
some
of
you
are
familiar
with
him.
He
left
affordable
housing
in
boulder
the
rent,
because
that
was
a
better
option.
D
His
complaints
overflapped
some
with
my
complaints.
I
would
not
choose
to
be
in
this
program
if
I
had
better
education,
his
complaints
was
that
it
just
got
too
expensive
the
hoacs
and
it
just
wasn't
a
good
program.
This
isn't
true
home
ownership.
What
the
city
offers
and
the
affordable
program,
the
main
beneficiary
is
the
city
of
boulder,
not
the
actual
people
that
use
it.
The
city's
building,
a
giant
housing
portfolio
that
we
don't
actually
own
the
the
mortgage
that
I
got
the
market
rate
mortgage
I
got
got.
D
It's
basically
swallowed
up.
It's
it's
now,
I'm
now
part
of
the
city
portfolio.
When
adam
said
that
he
sold
his
house,
the
city
made
him,
make
some
changes
and-
and
he
did
not
get
very
much
appreciation
at
all.
The
problem
with
this
is
that
when
you
get
someone
in
here,
I
would
desperately
want
to
be
out
of
this
program.
I
do
not
like
this
program,
but
the
problem
is
my
mortgage
that
I
put
in
six
years
ago,
can't
buy
me
anything
nearby,
boulder
and
so
to
avoid
all
these
conflicts.
D
D
Otherwise
you
end
up
in
a
system
where
people
get
dragged
out
and
they're
going
to
be
a
few
winners,
they're
going
to
be
people
that
are
recent
graduates,
and
I
read
something
that
someone
got
a
million
dollar
house
after
they
got
this
affordable
housing
program,
but
by
no
means
the
affordable
household.
If
you
look
at
the
300
000
house,
they
bought
nine
years
ago,
it
just
didn't
make
any
sense
that
they
had
to
buy
a
million
dollar
house
after
that
to
escape
the
program,
and
so
I
get
some
concerns
that
there's
a
program
out
there.
D
That
has
a
lot
of
people
that
are
extremely
dissatisfied.
It's
very
depressing
to
be
in
this
program
and
the
city
doesn't
seem
to
listen
to
us.
Adam
mentioned
that
no
one
in
city
council
listens
to
his
concerns
and
followed
up.
We
don't
have
representation
or
a
small
minority.
There's
a
lot
of
discrimination.
D
I've
had
a
lot
of
problems
in
the
program
by
my
hoa
the
city
of
boulder.
I
noticed
kurt's
on
the
line
has
had
very
serious
disagreements
with
kurt
codes
and
standards.
Unfollowed,
there's
nothing
you
could
do.
The
city
can
abuse
you.
I
went
to
the
mediation,
but
it's
run
by
kurt's
office.
So
what
do
you
do?
I
got
an
unsatisfactory
result,
so
you
just
get
people
in
boulder
that
are
getting.
D
You
know
depressed
and
unhappy
in
this
program
and
it
comes
down
to
the
design.
So
I
I
don't
really
see
any
pluses
in
this
affordable
housing
program.
It
kind
of
takes
the
worst
of
home
ownership,
all
the
liabilities
and
maintenance
it
combines
it
with
renting
and
you
have
to
deal
with.
You
know
these
unstable
rates
of
hoacs.
So
that's
that's
what
I
wanted
to
contribute
here
tonight.
A
Well,
thank
you
dan.
It's
partly
because
of
comments
like
the
one
you
just
made,
or
your
three
minutes
that
we
scheduled
the
informational
session.
It's
the
next
item
on
the
agenda
to
review.
What's
going
on
with
the
where,
where
are
we
going
where
we've
been?
Where
are
we
going
with
the
affordable
home
ownership
program
and
it'll
be
interesting
to
see
what
kind
of
user
satisfaction
or
dissatisfaction
has
come
out
of
that
if
we
can
draw
such
conclusions?
So,
thank
you
again
for
your
comments.
I
will
read
that
article.
A
It's
now
been
shared
with
the
board
and
I
think
we
can
move
on
to
item
six
matters
from
the
board
and
we
have
an
overview
of
the
affordable
home
ownership
program
from
eric
swanson,
the
homeownership
program
management
manager.
Again
this
is
a
10-minute
presentation.
There
will
be
q
a
so
we'll
turn
it
over
to
eric.
Thank
you
for
being
here.
H
Excellent
thank
you
for
inviting
me.
I
will
share
my
screen
one
moment.
H
D
H
All
right,
I
assume
someone
will
let
me
know
if
you
can't
hear
me
or
see
what's
on
the
screen
and
I
will
go
go
forward
so
yeah.
Thank
you
again
so
much
for
inviting
me.
So
my
name's
eric
I'm
one
of
the
home
ownership
program
managers,
there's
three
of
us
that
that
work
on
this
program
and
what
I
was
going
to
do
tonight
is
just
kind
of
give
you
an
overview
of
the
program.
H
Jay
segnet
shared
that
it
would
be
helpful
to
just
kind
of
provide
a
little
bit
of
education
about
what
we
do
and
and
get
into
a
little
more
detail
about
what
the
city's
homeownership
program
does,
and
I
think
that
sometimes
or
the
way
I
approach
this
is
to
tell
a
little
bit
of
a
story
about
how
one
family
might
or
one
family
went
through
this
program
and
how
it
how
it
benefited
them,
at
least
with
what
our
is
our
most
popular
program
and
that's
our
permanently
permanently
affordable
program.
H
And
so
there
here's
a
story
that
I'll
share
with
you,
and
this
is
actually
based
on
a
real
family.
I
changed
the
name,
but
everything
else
is
based
on
a
real
family,
and
so
what
we're
doing
is
we're
trying
to
help
families
like
this
in
this
particular
family,
the
sharma
family.
They
have
five
people
in
their
family,
it's
two
parents,
two
kids
and
then
a
grandparent
that
all
lived
together
and
when
they
bought
in
the
program,
their
annual
income
from
two
nursing
assistants.
H
Jobs
was
fifty
four
thousand
dollars
really
hard
to
buy
something
in
boulder,
even
really
hard
to
rent
in
boulder
at
that
at
that
kind
of
income,
and
they
also
had
limited
savings.
So
the
down
payment
could
be,
can
be
a
challenge,
but
what
they
did
need.
They
needed
some
stable
housing
someplace
that
they
could
afford
into
the
future
and
that's
how
they
ended
up
coming
to
us
and
they
ended
up
buying
a
home
in
our
permanently
affordable
program.
H
Here's
the
home
they
bought
is
the
three
bedroom
two
bath,
12
000
square
foot
condo
and
they
purchased
it.
So
it's
permanently
affordable.
So
it's
a
below
market
rate
price
at
184
000
and
that
resulted
in
a
payment
of
15
just
over
15
000.
H
and
that
ended
up
being
35
of
their
income
and
that's
kind
of
what
we're
that's
kind
of
the
sweet
spot.
For
us
you
know,
30
35
of
someone's
income
is
is
thought
to
be
affordable
than
they
can
afford.
If
that's
what
they're
paying
for
their
housing,
then
they're
able
to
afford
the
other
things
that
they
need
in
their
life
they're,
not
skimping
on
those
on
those
things,
and
so
I
think
I
may
have
said
this.
H
These
homes
sell
it
below
market
rate
prices,
and
so
I'd
say
that
this
home,
probably
it
probably
would
appraise
for
300
000.
So
it's
definitely
a
lot
lower
than
than
what
the
market
rate
price
would
be.
H
So
then
the
homes
in
this
permanently
affordable
program
they
all
have
a
covenant
attached
to
them
or
a
deed
restriction,
is
sometimes
referred
to,
and
what
that
does
is
it
limits
who
can
buy
so
people
need
to
fit
under
certain
income
and
asset
and
some
other
program
requirements
in
order
to
to
buy
these.
H
You
know
it's
designed
to
be
owner-occupied,
not
designed
to
be
a
rental
property
or
an
income
generating
property
and
then
there's,
as
I've
said,
there's
limitations
on
the
resale
price
and
and
basically
in
that
in
that
covenant
there
is
a
formula
that
that
the
goal
of
that
is
to
try
and
keep
the
home
affordable
into
the
future,
and
in
brief,
what
that
is,
is
it's.
H
The
formula
starts
with
the
the
listing
price
or
the
price
that
someone
paid
for
it,
and
then
some
appreciation
is
added
every
year,
it's
somewhere
between
one
and
three
and
a
half
percent,
and
that's
determined
by
some
area
economic
indicators.
So
it
doesn't
necessarily
follow
the
market.
How
market
real
estate
appreciates
it's?
It's
based
on
consumer
price
index
and
area
median
income,
and
that's
really
one
of
the
ways
that
we
are
able
to
kind
of
maintain
these
and
keep
them
affordable
going
into
the
future.
H
Now
there
is,
as
I
said,
there's
three
city
staff
people
that
that
primarily
work
on
this
program
and
what
we
are
doing
is
we're
qualifying
families.
So
people
will
apply
to
the
program
we'll
make
sure
they
qualify
fit
under
the
requirements
and
then,
when
the
homes
sell,
we're
working
to
make
sure
that
they
stay
or
that
the
all
the
rules
and
guidelines
are
followed
and
that
a
covenant
is
a
new
covenant's
recorded
with
that
to
help
protect
that
affordability
going
going
forward.
H
Now,
back
to
the
story,
I'm
going
to
segue
into
another
one
of
our
programs
that
sort
of
works
very
well
with
the
permanently
affordable
program,
and
that's
our
solutions
grant,
and
so
this
family,
as
we
saw
at
the
beginning
they
had
about,
I
think
thirty,
six
hundred
dollars
in
in
savings
that
they
could
contribute
which
wasn't
enough
to
close
the
transaction
even
on
a
minimal
loan,
a
minimal
down
payment
loan.
It
wasn't
enough-
and
so
this
grant
is
available.
H
H
However,
that
grant
does
reduce
the
price
at
resale,
so
they
will
have
a
slightly
lower
resale
price
when
they
sell
on
that
is
sort
of.
So
we
can
keep
that
grant
money
invested
in
the
home,
and
so
not
only
does
that
buyer
benefit
from
it,
but
future
buyers
will
benefit
it
from
it
in
a
slightly
lower
lower
price.
H
And
then
I'll
kind
of
wrap
up
my
story
before
talking
about
some
of
our
other
programs
of
this
family,
so
they're
able
to
move
into
the
this
house
and
and
and
live
there,
and
it
gave
them.
You
know
kind
of
the
room
they
needed.
A
three
bedroom
was
was
a
great
help
to
them,
helps
reduce
their
commutes
to
they.
They
both
worked
in
boulder,
and
so
their
commutes
into
boulder
were
reduced,
which
also,
you
know,
has
time
implications.
H
Environmental
implications,
which
are
great
a
really
key
feature
of
it.
Is
the
stabilizing
housing
costs,
so
people
who
are
able
to
go
into
a
fixed
rate
mortgage
really
can
help
stabilize
their
housing
costs
as
opposed
to
seeing
rent
increase
over
time
at
probably
a
more
accelerated
rate
than
than
than
they
would
see
when
they
have
a
fixed
rate
mortgage.
H
Another
sort
of
there's
benefits
of
people
being
able
to
kind
of
stay
in
a
community
stay
in
one
place,
grow
roots
in
that
community,
get
to
know
their
neighbors
and
kind
of
the
intangibles
of
that
that
sort
of
benefit,
and
then
that
last
one
down
there
home
ownership
as
an
investment
and
well
people
are
not
seeing
the
market
like
what
market
rate
owners
see
in
boulder.
H
D
Yeah,
can
I
first,
oh
sorry,
I'm
not
sure
if
you're
done
on
the
this
part.
C
C
A
F
E
I
agree
so.
G
Yeah,
this
is
a
it's
a
it's
a
presentation,
so
if
we
could
just
please
let
eric
continue
with
the
presentation,
we
appreciate
that.
H
Great,
thank
you
so
of
the
overall
inventory.
The
home
ownership
program
represents
about
just
a
little
bit
over
20
of
the
of
the
and
then
there's
also
the
whole
rental
side
of
affordable
rentals
that
are
in
the
boulder,
and
so
we
we
represent
about
20
20,
which
is
pretty
substantial
for
a
community
this
size
to
have
to
have
that
kind
of
footprint
which
is
pretty
exciting.
H
So
let
me
talk
about
some
of
the
additional
programs
that
that
we
have
beyond
the
permanently
affordable
and
shared
appreciation
grant.
We
have
I'm
sorry
the
solutions
grant.
We
have
a
shared
appreciation
loan
program,
and
this
is
intended
for
people
who
are
trying
to
buy
a
market
rate
house
in
boulder
and
what
it
is,
is
it's
a
a
second
loan,
basically
on
the
program,
but
it's
deferred
payment.
H
So
people
don't
make
payments
on
it,
but
it's
all
due
then
in
a
lump
sum
at
15
years
at
the
end,
along
with
the
share
of
the
appreciation
and
the
idea
behind
this
is
that
people
will
be
able
to
have
kind
of
more
money
that
they
are
able
to
have
at
that
closing,
but
not
have
the
obligation
of
making
those
payments
right
away
and
then,
hopefully,
over
time,
their
income
is
growing
or
they're
building
equity
and
then
they'll
be
able
to
pay
off
this
loan
through
either
savings
or
refinancing
at
some
point
in
the
future.
H
We
also
have
a
home
repair
program,
that's
designed
to
help
with
health
and
safety
repairs
for
low-income
folks
in
boulder,
and
we
actually
partner
with
the
city
of
longmont,
who
runs
a
very
similar
program
and
they
they
manage
the
repair
side
of
things
and
setting
up
contractors
to
do
that.
And
then
we
are
providing
low
interest
loans
to
help
pay
those
costs
to
people
and
then
the
last
program
that
I'll
talk
about
here
is
our
housing
legacy
program.
H
H
So
I'm
going
to
segue
now
into
the
owner's
satisfaction
with
the
program.
So
in
2019
there
was
a
survey
done
to
kind
of
figure
out
what
what
what
are
owners
feeling
about
this?
How
are
they
feeling
about
the
program?
Is
it
working
for
them?
What's
not
working
for
them
and
the
survey
the
full
presentation
on
that
survey
was
was
in
the
packet.
I
believe
we're
not
going
to
go
through
all
of
all
of
those
slides
but
I'll
hit.
Some
of
the
highlights
highlights
here
so
of
the
people
that
responded.
H
The
survey
you
know,
57
percent
were
very
satisfied.
34
were
sat
were
satisfied
with
their
decision
or
with
the
with
the
home
just
under
90,
we're
glad
that
they
purchased
said
they
would
do
it.
Do
it
again,
and
then
68
percent
said
that
they'd
improve
their
financial
security
since
purchasing
so
kind
of
the
idea
of
helping
to
stabilize
or
helping
to
improve
people's
financial
position
through
homeownership?
H
It
seemed
to
be
realized,
at
least
for
a
majority
of
people,
and
then
people
also
said
that
they
were
planning
to
stay
in
their
home
for
the
next
five
or
more
years,
which
would
kind
of
indicate
that
they
were
happy
with
with
how
things
were
going
and
happy
with
where
they
were
now.
H
I
think
you
know
people
just
weren't
kind
of
in
the
mindset,
maybe
of
planning
for
planning
for
repairs
and
things
like
that,
and
so
that
took
some
adjustment
and
people
were.
I
guess
that
was
something
they
were
surprised
about,
and
then
there
was
some
kind
of
open-ended
questions
that
people
were
able
to
answer
and
some
of
the
common
themes
in
in
that
were
the
increasing
hoa
fees
affecting
the
affordability.
H
So
as
that
hoa
fee
goes
up
it
it's
hard
to
to
find
the
home
or
see
the
home
as
being
as
affordable
as
it
once
was,
and
this
is
really
not
unique
to
the
city
of
boulder
program.
I
think
you
know,
as
we
hear
from
programs
across
the
country.
The
hoa
part
is
is
definitely
a
challenge
to
to
maintaining
affordability.
H
People
also
commented
on
the
appreciation,
caps
and
saying
that
that
limited
their
ability
to
build
equity
in
the
home.
You
know
because
it's
you
know
limited
to
under
three
and
a
half
percent
people
are
not
are
not
going
to
grow
equity
as
quickly
as
they
will
in
a
market
rate
house,
and
so
it
makes
them
harder,
build
that
and
then
you
know,
move
on
to
move
on
to
something
else.
H
And
then
the
last
kind
of
common
theme
was
program
restrictions.
So
there
are,
you
know,
restrictions
around
credit
that
can
be
given
for
improvements
and
and
so
on,
and
you
know
just
as
we
monitor
this.
There
are
some
some
steps
and
things
that
owners
need
to
participate
in
and
be
part
of,
and
that
that
does
take
some
time
and
effort
on
their
part.
H
So
as
I
I'm
going
to
move
on
here
and
just
talk
about
kind
of
a
current
focus
of
ours,
so
we've
done
a
good
amount
of
work,
focusing
on
or
on
lower
to
middle,
moderate
incomes
and
now
we're
trying
to
focus
a
little
more
on
middle
incomes
and
some
of
the
things
that
we're
doing
is
our
shared
appreciation.
Loan
program
that
I
talked
about
earlier.
H
We
recently
expanded
the
income
limits,
so
moved
it
up
to
120
of
the
area
median
income
people,
so
greater
number
of
people
can
access
that
program
and
we
also
expanded
the
loan
amount.
We
doubled
it
from
50
000
to
100
000
that
people
can
take
out
also
our
permanently
affordable
program.
We
do
have
approximately
15
of
those
homes
are
targeted
towards
this
middle
income
group,
and
we
also
have
a
new
initiative
where
we're
trying
to
purchase
market
rate
and
kind
of
convert
them
to
permanently
affordable.
H
That
is
focused
on
a
middle
income
category
and
then
the
last
thing
is.
We
are
participating
jurisdiction
in
the
metro,
dpa
program.
This
is
a
regional
down
payment
program
that
helps
people
it
can
get.
People
can
get
a
loan
for
up
to
five
percent
of
the
purchase
price
and
the
income
limits
on
this
are
pretty
generous.
They
go
all
the
way
up
to
a
hundred
and
fifty
thousand
dollars
and
the
kind
of
nice.
It
says
it's
a
forgivable
loan.
H
H
They
are
usually
appraising
for
twice
what
they're
selling.
For
so
that
long-term
affordability
seems
to
be
working.
We
seem
to
have
a
strong
lender
and
agents,
real
estate
agents,
support
people,
recognize
the
program
and
are
willing
to
work
with
it
and
support
it.
We've
got
a
permanently
affordable
covenant
that
has
stood
the
test
of
time.
H
I
think
that
over
it's
been
sort
of
current
iteration
has
been
in
place
for
about
15
years,
and
it
has
done
a
good
job
of
kind
of
balancing
the
the
interest
of
what
the
city
is
trying
to
do
with
permanently
affordable
and
providing
opportunities
for
for
owners
and
then
there's
a
variety
of
homes
spread
throughout
the
throughout
the
city,
which
I
think
is
is
great
and
then
so
the
challenges.
H
H
Last
year
we
started
a
program
to
help
people
who
are
face.
Affordable
owners
who
are
facing
special
assessments
help
pay
pay
some
of
those,
and
then
we
are.
I
just
lost
my
train
of
thought.
Oh
we've
got
a
program
that
if,
if
homes
are
kind
of
on
affordable,
we
have
a
mechanism
where
we
can
kind
of
open
them
up
to
a
higher
income,
higher
income
group.
H
So,
working
on
instilling
that
homeowner
mindset,
I
think
that
you
know
is
maybe
not
exclusive
to
our
program,
but
as
people
most
of
our
owners
are
moving
from
renting
to
owner
to
owning
and
so
kind
of
that
idea
of
that,
owning
and
maintaining
is
they
kind
of
go
hand
in
hand
and
then
managing
homeowner
expectations
around
depreciation?
H
You
know
it,
it
does
not
match
the
appreciation
of
a
market
rate
home
and
so
helping
people
understand
that
as
they
move
into
this
opportunity
and
are
are
living
within
that
serving
middle
income
buyers.
As
I
talked
about
we're
trying
to
spend
some
extra
focus
there,
and
I
think
the
program
complexity
is
something
we're
always
looking
at
trying
to
figure
out
ways
to
make
it
more
more
streamlined
and
just
more
efficient.
A
A
G
G
I
have
a
a
couple
of
points
I
want
to
make
and
then
just
really
quickly
and
then
a
a
little
bit
of
a
question,
for
you
pointed
on
some
of
the
things
that
we
heard
about
with
the
critiques
and-
and
I
think
the
the
two
points
that
I
want
to
make
are
you
know
I've
dealt
with
these
the
the
structure
of
affordable
home
ownership
in
communities
throughout
the
state
and
essentially
the
first
thing
is
the
property
tax
valuations
are
reflective
of
the
the
covenant
that's
on
them.
G
Is
that
not
correct
for
boulder
too?
That's
correct,
so
they're,
not
they're
they're
not
being
assessed
at
the
appraised
value
they're
being
assessed
at
the
restricted
value
so
correct.
So
that's
one
thing,
so
the
property
taxes
commensurate
with
the
restricted
price,
which
is
as
much
as
you
can
do
really
right.
G
Okay,
the
the
second
thing
when
you
talked
about
the
appreciation
cap,
you
know
it's
a
delicate
balance
that
we
always
wrestle
with,
but
the
you
know
the
the
point
of
the
appreciation
cap
and
I
think
what
you
said
it
here
is:
if
you
don't
have
some
sort
of
appreciation
cap,
then
the
whole
entire
purpose
of
the
program
can
get
defeated
pretty
quickly.
As
things
appreciate
and
and
given
the
the
significant
investment
that
the
city
puts
into
these,
you
know
we
we
have
to
safeguard
against
that.
Isn't
that
the
approach.
G
I
would
I
would
agree,
yeah
and-
and
so
my
last
question
is
just
regarding
associations,
so
it's
certainly
a
concern
everywhere,
but
at
least
what
I've
seen
in
the
past
is
there's
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
governors
that
you
can
put
on
hoa
fees
and
things
like
special
assessments,
so
that
it's
really
reflective
of
the
reality
that
it's
becoming
increasingly
costly
to
to
own
a
home
because
of
the
incredible
costs,
increasing
costs
that
we've
seen
because
the
supply
chain
and
everything
so
if
you
have
to
put
a
new
roof
on
etc.
G
And
so
I
guess
my
question
is
with
most
of
the
associations
that
we're
dealing
with.
Can
you
make
a
direct
correlation
between
the
the
dues
and
the
special
assessments
and
the
necessary
parts
of
home
ownership?
So
in
other
words,
as
opposed
to
say,
a
luxury
association
where
they
may
have
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
surplusage?
Or
you
know
wasteful
line
items
in
there
I
mean
so?
Are
we?
Are
we
trying
to
tailor
the
association
so
that
we're
we're
dealing
with
the
nuts
and
bolts
that
you
need
to
for
home
ownership?
H
That's
a
great
question
so
so
kind
of
the
the
idea
of
are
the
are
the
folks
in
these
permanently
affordable
homes
that
are
in
associations
that
are
are
sort
of
doing
the
basic,
the
decent,
the
good,
safe
and
decent,
not
doing
the
pools
and
the
and
that
sort
of
thing
that
is
that's
kind
of
your
question.
Yeah.
G
H
Yeah
and-
and
you
know
it's
a
challenge
because
we're
we're
most
of
these
homes
are
in
communities
that
are
a
mix
of
homes,
a
mix
of
market
rate
and
affordable.
We
have
very
few
buildings
or
communities
that
are
just
100,
affordable,
and
so
there
is,
and
by
design
like
we
want
to
have
we
don't
want
to
have.
We
want
to
have
people
kind
of
all
all
mixed
around,
and
so
it
is
challenging.
H
I
think
that
sometimes
the
affordable
owners
and
what
the
market
rate
owners
want
might
not
be
might
not
be
on
the
same
path.
I
I
think
for
the
most
part,
though
I
don't
think
we
have
to-
I
mean,
I
suppose,
there's
a
few
communities
that
might
have
some
some
more
separation
between
that,
but
I
I
think
that
most
of
them
are
probably
fairly
reasonable.
I
I
think
the
challenge
is
that
sometimes.
H
You
know
and
we
as
we
educate
owners,
we
try
to
encourage
them
to
get
involved
in
their
hoa
and
understand
what
to
look
at
with
their
hoa
to
sort
of
keep
on
top
of
that
and
understand.
What's
what's
going
on
so
yeah,
I
I
don't.
I
don't
have
a
great
answer
for
for
the
the
question
other
than
that.
I
Eric
thanks
a
lot
bud
that
was
really
nice
and
I
think
a
job
well
done.
Early
on
years
ago,
there
was
there
was
some
issues
getting
financing
for
these
deed,
restricted
units,
I'm
assuming
that's
worked
itself
out,
but
out
of
my
own
curiosity
is
it?
Is
it
like
local
banks
that
are
lending
money
on
them
or
is
it?
You
know
more
conventional
fannie,
freddie
loans
that
that
are
lending
money
on
these
just.
H
Yeah
great
great
question,
so
financing
generally
isn't
isn't
an
issue
for
us,
and
most
of
the
loans
are
are
being
underrated
by
by
fannie
mae
or
freddie
mac.
They
are
you
know,
they're
being
sold
on
to
to
those
underwriters,
we're
we're
fortunate
that
we
have
a
lending
community.
H
That
kind
of
understands
the
program
we've
been
working
with
for
for
many
years
and
so
they're
able
to
to
get
the
loans
through
and
on
occasion
we'll
have-
and
it's
not
just
the
affordables
that
faces,
but
sometimes
we
have
what's
a
community
is
called
non-warrantable
so,
like
maybe
there's
a
lawsuit
pending
or
there's
a
certain
mix
of
commercial
and
and
real
estate
and
home
ownership,
and
it
makes
it
harder
to
get
those
loans
underwritten
and
there's
a
lot
of
local
loans
that
they
call
them
a
portfolio
loan
that
the
lender
will
do
and
just
keep
it
in-house.
H
They
won't
sell
it
on
so
so,
yeah
no
longer
an
issue.
I
And
that's
great
to
know,
you
know
if
I
want
to
make
a
comment
and
ask
a
question.
I
think
that
well
question
common
question:
you
said
that
the
story
told
that
the
market
value
of
that
1200
square
foot
unit
was
about
three
four
hundred
thousand
dollars.
I
I
But
but
300
you
don't
buy
much
in
boulder
for
300.,
but
but
the
the
affordable,
the
deed,
restricted
price
is
about
180.
So,
even
under
your
estimation,
which
I
think
your
market
value,
we're
talking
about
about
a
50,
less
cost
than
market
rate,
is
that
what
you
see?
Typically,
I
would,
I
would
say-
and
that's.
I
Yeah
here's
my
comment:
it's
it's
kind
of
a
stepping
stone
right
and
I
think
that's
what
it
was
intended
to
be
it's
in
between
market
rate,
owning
and
renting
you
you,
you
get
some
appreciation.
You
get
to
control
your
monthly
cost
hoa
side,
which
you
know
that's
a
whole
different
discussion.
I
Am
I
correct
in
saying
you
still
get
to
deduct
your
taxes
and
your
interest
payments
on
your.
You
know
in
your
income.
You
can
deduct
those
for
your
taxes
right
just
like
market
rate,
so.
I
You
get
some
appreciation,
you
pay
down
some
principles,
so
you're
building
equity,
yes,
you're,
not
building
it
at
the
typical
boulder
rate,
but
you
are
building
some
where,
as
opposed
to
renting
you
don't
build
any
and
et
cetera,
et
cetera.
So
that
was
with
my
comments,
which
I
think
is
all
very
good.
It's
all
what
the
program
was
intended
to
do,
and
it's
doing
it
and
it's
good
here's
my
question
and
I
would
I'm
going
to
try.
I
Not
an
issue
but
a
question:
the
program
was
intended
to
have
people
who
make
a
certain
amount
of
money
or
have
a
certain
amount
of
savings
living
in
these
homes,
and
my
understanding
correct
me,
if
I'm
wrong
is
that
you
only
have
to
qualify
once
to
to
buy
right.
So,
if
you're
at
a
certain
point
in
your
life
that
you
don't
have
the
you
have
the
not.
F
I
I
E
I
But
I
just
think
for
me:
that's
a
flaw.
I
don't
know
the
answer
necessarily,
but
but
that's
that's.
That's
a
flaw
in
the
system
because,
if
at
closing
date
you
qualify
and
a
year
later,
your
life
changes
something
happens,
better
job
inheritance.
Who
knows
something
goes
on.
You
still
get
to
live
in
that
deep,
restricted,
affordable
housing.
You
know
for
30
years
or
50
years.
However
long
you
want
to
win
there,
even
though
economically
you
don't
qualify
again,
I
think
that's
one
of
the
things
I
like
about
the
rental
side.
I
Every
year
you
have
to
qualify
and
that
ensures
that
the
right
people
are
living
or
the
people
that
should
be
living.
There
are
living
there
and
on
the
first
for
purchase
side,
that's
just
no
safeguard
day.
After
closing
to
me
that's
an
issue,
I
don't
have
a
great
solution,
but
that's
my
my
comment.
Okay,.
C
Can
I
thank
you
a
little
bit
terry.
I
think
I
mean
that's
a
great
observation,
but
I
think
what
we
found
is
that
the
typical
tenure
of
someone
who
purchases
a
home
is
around
nine
years,
so
people
typically
do
move
on.
C
I
A
G
Just
I
just
wanted
to
know
like,
as
far
as
the
freddie
and
fanny
problems,
with
the
with
the
loans
with
what
they
basically
did
with
everybody
is
freddie
and
fanny.
You
have
to
subsume
the
the
deed
restriction
to
freddie
and
fanny.
However,
you
have
the
the
right
to
redeem
if
there's
a
default
on
on
the
on
the
loan
or
even
redeem,
if
there
is
a
if
it
goes
forward
to
foreclosure,
and
so
you
protect
your
investment
that
way.
F
So
thank
thank
you
eric
for
your
presentation.
I
I
I
have
a
lot
of
natural
skepticisms
of
this
of
this
program
and
I
also
don't
feel
like
I'm
super
knowledgeable
about
it.
So
I
want
to.
I
want
to
avoid
ranting
too
much
and
exposing
my
ignorance,
but
I
do
want
to
ask
some
questions
about
it.
One
of
the
things
that
seems
strange
to
me
is
you.
F
F
You
can
lose
wildly
because,
but
you're
you're
putting
five
percent
down
or
even
even
if
you
put
20
down,
you
know
that
20
could
be
swallowed
by
a
a
depression
or
you
know,
multiplied
by
appreciation,
and
so
it
seems
to
me
that
one
of
the
things
that
this
program
is
predicated
on
is
that
housing
prices
always
go
up
and
which
is
what
we've
seen
for
decades,
and
I,
I
think
the
reason
prices
keep
going
up
is
because
we
have
a
market,
that's
distorted
that
constrains
supply.
F
When
there's
lots
of
demand-
and
we
have
we-
we
keep
doing
things
that
increase
demand
like
down
payment
assistance
programs,
for
example-
and
I
just
I
just
wonder,
like
you
know,
if
we
had
a
healthy
housing
market,
where
there
was
lots
of
options
at
lots
of
different
price
points,
what
what
would
the
what
would
happen
to
somebody
if
someone's
house
price
went
down
in
this
program?
F
Maybe
it
seems
like
that
would
be
a
bitter
pill
to
swallow,
but
maybe
that's
not
even
an
issue
because
of
the
the
landscape
that
we
find
ourselves
in.
H
Yeah
I
mean
it
is
a
possibility
that
someone's
house
could
could
could
go
down
in
value
if
the
whole
boulder
market
goes
down.
I
I
think,
like
we
haven't
seen
that,
like
we've,
only
kind
of
seen
increasing
demand,
that's
not
to
say
that
that
couldn't
happen
in
the
future,
but
there's
there's
always
a
line
of
buyers
when
one
of
these
homes
comes
up
for
sale,
and
so
their
people
are
always
getting
that
maximum
price,
because
people
are
willing
to
to
to
pay
that
so
yeah
I
mean
it
is.
F
Result
so
it
seems
like
it
seems,
like
a
reasonable
approach
in
this
very
unhealthy
landscape
of
the
current
housing
market
in
a
healthy
housing
market.
I
think
this
approach
is
could
be
really
disastrous
for
families,
because
the
housing
prices
ought
to
go
up
and
down
based
on
their
value
and
based
on
supply
and
demand
so
anyways.
I
just
wanted
to
point
this
out
that
that
to
me
it
doesn't
seem
like
a
a
solution
for
the
ages.
It
seems
like
kind
of
something
that
works
now
and
the
mess
that
we're
in.
C
Just
a
little
bit
more
context
that
might
be
helpful,
so
keep
in
mind.
The
value
of
the
homes
is
not
based
on
the
real
estate
market.
I
think
I
tried
to
make
that
point.
It's
really
based
on
the
cost
of
so
the
consumer
price
index
and
those
changes
and
area
meeting
income.
Those
changes
over
years
and
also
keep
in
mind
that
the
delta
like
eric
was
talking
about.
C
You
know
those
the
affordable
prices
are
half
or
even
a
third
of
the
market,
so
the
market
would
really
have
to
tank
to,
I
think,
even
come
close
to
impacting
it.
So
I'm
I
don't,
I'm
not
sure
it's
really
going
to
be
a
risk,
or
at
least
I'm
having
a
hard
time,
foreseeing
that
scenario,
even
if
we
did
have
a
really
healthy.
F
Yeah,
that's
that's!
That's
an
excellent
point
about
the
initial
price,
so
I
wasn't.
I
didn't
have
that
quite
sorted
out
in
my
head.
Thank
you
for
clarifying
that.
So
one
of
the
things
I
I
wanted
to
just
respond
to
kind
of
like
with
the
data
science
head
on.
F
This
is
very
sophisticated
anyways,
but
very
satisfied,
plus
somewhat
satisfied
came
out
to
91
that
seems
like
you're,
knocking
it
out
of
the
park
when
you
multiply
that
by
the
response
rate
of
53
percent.
F
That
means
you
know
at
least
48
like
the
program,
and
I
know
you
can't
really
say
what
about
the
other
52
percent
I'd.
I
wonder
if,
if
dan
glazer
filled
out
the
survey-
or
you
know
like,
I
wonder
if
the
if
there's
some
self-selecting
bias
in
terms
of
people
who,
like
the
program
to
fill
out
the
survey
I
know
for
myself
personally,
I
tend
to
not
fill
out
surveys
for
people
I'm
frustrated
with.
F
So
you
know
it
would
be
interesting
to
know-
and
I
don't
know
how
you
do
this
without
people
you
know
getting
a
hundred
percent
returns,
but
maybe
you
could
maybe
you
could
sample
somehow
that
the
people
who
didn't
who
didn't
fill
out
that
survey
and
get
some
sense
of
of
what
your
actual
approval
rating
is
because,
because
you
know,
48
to
91
is
a
is
a
very
large
range
there
and
if
you
have,
if
you
have
something,
that's
like
you
know,
on
the
balance,
that's
closer
to
60
or
70.
F
That
might
be
good
for
a
presidential
candidate,
but
for
like
a
home
ownership
program.
You
know
if
you
have
30
to
40
percent
disapproval
of
that.
That's
a
that's
like
a
lot
of
people
who
are
having
a
lot
taking
on
a
lot
of
stress.
So
I
just
wanted
to
point
that
out
as
well
and
feel
free
to
comment.
If
you
want
to
yeah
yeah.
H
I
I
I
I
think
it's
the
the
challenge
of
any
survey
is,
is
how
do
you,
you
know,
get
a
full
response
right.
I
would
say
that
I
I
feel
like
people
are
not
are
not
bashful
of
of
sharing
when
they
are
not
happy
with
what
we're
doing
or
when
they
think
things
need
to
be
changed.
You
know
I
yeah.
F
A
Or
no
I
thought
you
were
done,
but
I
don't
have
anything
in
that
important
thing.
So
keep
going.
F
Okay,
I
have
I
have
one
more
comment
and-
and
that
is
based
on
what
I've
understood
about
about
this
program-
there's
always
way
more
applicants
than
the
number
of
houses
that
are
available,
and
so
it
it's
it's
interesting
to
know
that
it's
a
it's
a
it's
a
solution.
That's
not
satisfying
the
you
know
the
people
that
would
would
really
like
to
benefit
from
it.
F
I
would
be
curious
to
know
what
they
think
about
the
the
the
program,
but
what's
their
favorability
rating
of
this
of
this
solution
and
also
one
one
reason
this
would
be
interesting
is
because
there's
a
section
in
the
packet
about
how
have
people
fared
that
have
participated
in
the
program.
You
know
what
what's
been
their
sort
of
financial
metrics
going
forward
and
it'd
be
interesting
to
compare
that
with
people
who
applied
for
the
program
but
didn't
get
in
and
and
and
see.
F
If
it's
you
know,
because
because
people
can
fare
better
because
the
economy's
is
doing
well,
maybe
maybe
you
could
take
a
random
sample
of
people
in
boulder
and
you
would
find
that
they're
faring
better.
So
I
don't
know
it'd
be
I
don't
know
how
you
control
for
that.
It's
very.
F
H
F
Thought
exercise,
even
if,
if
it's
impossible
to
to
sort
of
do
the
data
science
on
it,
I
think
that's
all
I've
got
for
now.
Thanks.
B
B
H
C
Are
you
talking
specifically
about
when
a
developer
proposes
affordable
housing
or
market
rate
or
a
mix?
No.
C
C
Well,
yeah,
no,
I
mean
that's
a
great
question.
That's
something
we're
struggling
with
and
I'll
talk
about
this
later
in
the
meeting
so
we'll
be
going
to
council
talk
about
middle
income
housing
in
in
october,
but
really
the
the
the
big
issue
is
that
they
can
make
a
lot
more
money
by
proposing
rental
income
rental
units
at
60
ami,
because
60
ami
is
really
close
to
market
right.
C
So
they're
going
to
basically
barely
take
a
hit
on
rents
that
they're
going
to
get
every
month,
whereas
if
they
tried
to
provide
an
affordable
unit,
the
amount
of
subsidy
that
would
be
required
is
I.
A
C
Right
because
the
gap
between
what
they
could
sell
that
forest
on
our
pricing
sheets
and
what
they
could
get
from
the
market
is
just
the
gap,
keeps
growing
every
year.
B
C
C
We've
been
trying
to
push
them
into
direction,
but
their
board
has
been
pretty
reluctant
to
go,
go
there,
but
that's
why
you
know
a
lot
of
the
where
you'll
see
the
affordable
ownership
units
right
are
in
annexations,
right
things
where
we
have
more
leverage.
Basically,
but
yeah,
I
mean
go
ahead.
Terry.
I
John,
the
other
thing
is
there's
on
the
rental
side,
there's
just
a
lot
more
money
available,
different
financing
tools
and
things
of
that
nature
that
allow
for
the
rental
product
to
be
more
practical
or
more
feasible,
off-site
cash
and
lieu
all
these
things
that
have
been
happening.
I
You
know
every
time
you
pay
a
cash
or
lose
there's
a
bucket
of
money
there
that
can
go
into
it
it
just
it's
it's
the
densities,
usually
in
their
rental
products,
allow
for
it.
It's
there's
a
lot
of
reasons.
Why
a
lot
of
reasons
why
the
rental
product
is
is
more
prevalent
than
the
for
sale
products.
Most
of
it
has
to
do
with
financing
and
the
money
that
you
can
get
to
do
it
from
a
rental
perspective,
but
anyway,
I'm
sure
we'll
talk
about
it
later
in
the
meeting.
A
C
I
can
give
you
my
answer
for
what
it's
worth.
I
mean
you
can
look
at
other
states,
and
so
my
most
of
my
experiences
in
oregon
saying
same
thing's
happening
there
and
they
don't
have
the
construction
defects
laws
that
colorado
does,
but
I
think
it's
hard
to
deny
that
the
construction
defects
does
not
have
an
impact.
C
I
think
the
question
I
would
have
is
how
much
of
an
impact
right
really
like
terry
was
saying
like
I
was
saying
it's
really
the
cost
and
and
that
the
pro
forma
just
looks
so
much
better
with
rental,
because
you're
getting
well,
you
know
in
perpetuity,
whereas
with
a
an
ownership
unit
you
gotta,
you're
gonna,
sell
it
and
that's
your
profit
margin
right.
There.
A
Yeah
well,
I
just
want
to
add
that
going
back
to
eric
I'm
up
on
the
survey,
I
mean
I'm
not
a
professional
surveyor,
but
I
was
pretty
impressed
by
that
presentation
that
I've
done
some
surveying
and
48
actually
seemed
like
a
very
high
response
rate,
and
I,
in
my
limited
experiences,
it
seems
like
the
people
who
are
dissatisfied
are
actually
more
likely
to
respond.
A
So
I
think
you
raised
some
really
good
points
about
that
analysis,
but
I
wouldn't
assume
that
a
lot
of
dissatisfied
people
wouldn't
bother
to
respond
because
it
seems
like
they'd,
be
more
motivated
to
respond.
C
Too
I
mean
so
we
did
this
survey
a
very
similar
survey.
I
can't
remember
exactly
when
I
have
to
go
back
2011.
I
think
so.
For
me,
what's
interesting
is
to
observe
those
trends
over
time.
So
we'll
do
it
again.
You
know
in
another
five,
six
or
seven
years
and
try
to
keep
it
as
close
as
possible
to
what
it
was.
C
I
mean
the
real
reason
we
did
that
survey
when
we
did,
though
we
were
hearing
from
a
lot
of
affordable
owners,
but
also
all
owners
throughout
the
city
that
live
in
hoax,
but
hoas
are
huge
and
it's
not
unique.
Like
eric
was
saying
it's
not
unique
to
boulder,
it's
not
unique
to
colorado
right,
not
unique
to
affordable
out
every
age.
Anyone
who
lives
in
an
hoa
is
experiencing
this
problem,
and
so
I
think
my
sense
is.
F
A
Like
it's
not
a
perfect
program,
I
I
think
it's
it's
like
anything
with
social
engineering.
It's
gonna
have
flaws
and
things
that
fall
through
the
cracks,
but
I
just
I
wish
I
could
be
more
optimistic
about
it,
making
a
comeback
and
providing
more
housing,
but
that
something
we're
going
to
discuss
later
in
this
meeting.
F
F
Like
I
said
before,
I'm
I'm
I'm
learning
and
it's
I
always
like
the
guest
speakers
who
who
teach
me
something
and
I'm
gonna,
I'm
gonna,
keep
reading
about
this.
Well,
we
appreciate.
A
New
chair
several
weeks
ago
drafted
a
recommendation
to
council.
It's
really
kind
of
a
call
action.
It's
not
so
much
of
a
policy
statement.
I
would
love
to
hear
some
conversation
about
if
you've
got
a
chance
to
review
it.
It's
something
that
came
out
of
our
last
meeting
at
the
potential
action
step.
So
I
feel
like
we
got
some
consensus.
We
did
want
to
do
something
on
these
issues,
so
this
is
specifically
urging
action
council
action
on
tv
base
doing
the.
A
Reserve
at
least
get
the
ball
rolling
on
what
could
be
very
long
processes
that
somewhere
down
the
road,
could
result
in
some
good,
affordable
housing
outcomes,
but
it
won't
if
they
won't
get
started.
So
if
you
want
to
review
that
statement,
we
can
do
that
or
we
can
just
move
into
discussion
and
then
talk
about
the
wisdom
of
doing
something
with
this
or
thinking
about
it
more
so
anyway,
once
you
start
with
some
comments,.
G
A
G
To
put
it
on
my,
can
you
say
that
again,
michael.
A
Oh
yeah,
I
just
wonder
if
you'd
like
to
comment
on
the
have
recommendations
I
drafted
regarding
council
moving
ahead
and
at
least
getting
the
process
started
on
planning,
reserve
and
transit
village
area
plan
too.
G
Yeah,
I
thought
I
thought
it
did
a
good
job,
just
reflecting
what
we
talked
about
before
and
just
kind
of
gently
pushing
that
forward
and
giving
some
sort
of
rationale
as
to
why
we're
addressing
that
with
them.
Now,
without
going
into
too
much
detail
or
too
deeply
so
it
worked
for
me,
I
thought
the
language.
C
H
A
A
A
I
apologize
okay,
I
thought
the
rest
of
the
board
had
gotten
it.
I
I
would
prefer
to
table
it
until
next
month,
then,
rather
than
having
you
have
to
do
it
on
the
fly
and
we'll
make
sure
you
get
a
copy
as
soon
as
possible.
A
Okay-
okay,
in
that
case-
and
I
apologize
we'll
go
on
to
the
next
agenda
item-
this
is
we
are
due
for
an
annual
retreat.
I
think
it's
probably
not
too
likely.
This
will
be
an
in-person
retreat,
but
we
can
have
a
conversation
about
when
and
how
we'd
like
to
do
this
last
year
preview,
especially
from
new
members,
we
had
a
good
facilitator.
A
E
A
A
Okay
fox
on
the
board
board
members.
G
G
To
kind
of
reflect
what
we
talked
about
at
the
cheers
mean:
is
it
if
there?
If,
if
this
is
in
person,
maybe
we
would?
We
wouldn't
necessarily
need
a
facilitator,
because
we
could
all
just
you
know,
kind
of,
have
a
sit
down
face
to
face
and
stuff
like
that.
I
think
if
it's
electronic
or
in
the
ether,
maybe
a
facilitator,
makes
sense
so.
G
F
I
haven't
been
to
a
hab
retreat
before.
Is
there?
Is
it
all,
is
it
all
business
or
is
it?
Is
there
some
provision
for
getting
to
getting
to
know
each
other
activity
type
stuff.
A
I'd
say
last
year
was
more
business
and
then
we
did.
We
cancelled
our
december
meeting
and
did
a
happy
hour
which
got
a
little
bit
messed
up
with
the
weather.
So
I
wouldn't
say
every
some
people
got
to
meet
in
person
which
is
really
nice,
but
it.
E
A
The
entire
board-
and
there
was
no
business
discussion
back
really
just
a
lot
of
productive
bitching
but
not
related-
is
that
the.
F
C
So
yeah,
I
would
just
say
you
know
that
the
retreat
over
the
years
you
know
some
of
them
have
been
more
heavily.
You
know
getting
to
know
each
other
icebreakers
learning
how
to
function
better
as
a
group,
so
yeah
there's
definitely
opportunity
for
that.
But
in
terms
of
your
sort
of
happy
hour
question
I
mean
the
board
has
tossed
around
the
ideas
over
the
years
of
you
know:
adjourning
early
and
meeting
somewhere
downtown
for
a
social
occasion,
not
everybody's,
going
to
want
to
do
that,
but
that
opportunity
has
presented
itself
in
the
past.
A
So,
given
the
council's
decision
to
delay
in-person
meetings,
were
we
even
able
to
do
that
if
we
wanted
to
have
an
in-person
retreat?
That's
a
question
for
jay.
Sorry.
C
No,
I
would
say
if
you're
gonna
have
a
formal
retreat.
No,
it
can't
be
in
person.
A
Well,
I
think
a
retreat
is
business,
but
do
we
have
a
happy
hour
pretend
that
it's
not
a
retreat
and
have
a
retreat,
probably
a
bad
thing
to
say
if
I'll
be
recorded.
A
Well,
the
summer
gathering
outdoors
would
certainly
be
a
great
thing
to
do,
and
june
or
july
would
probably
work
certainly
worked
for
me
anyway.
Let's
just
go
around
the
horn
and
you
know
get
some
feedback
on.
I
know
some
of
you
haven't
been
to
retreats
yet,
but
if
you'd
rather
do
the
center
or
wait
until
we
can
officially
do
an
in-person
retreat
love
to
hear
from
everybody
on
that.
C
I
A
A
A
Yeah,
I
think,
if
I'm
understanding,
jay's
suggestion-
and
you
know
I
want
to
go
on
the
record
like
saying
something
I
want
to
do
something
illegal
but
like
have
our
meeting
and
then
meet
for
a
happy
hour.
Sound
like
a
really
cool
idea
and.
G
Let's
give
let's
give
the
retreat
the
course
of
the
summer
to
see
how
things
transpire
and
then
maybe
we
talk
about
doing
a
happy
hour,
but
I
I
just
think
from
from
every
word
represented
or
worked
on,
or
whatever
you
know
like
having
your
treat
in
person
is
the
fundamental
idea
of
having
a
retreat
right.
It's
the.
A
G
Absolutely
so
just
to
have
another
zoom
yeah:
we
did
it
last
year.
It
worked,
but
that
was
kind
of
you
know
unique
circumstances.
I
think
we
could
be
patient
and
see
how
things
transpire
in
august
or
september.
That
would
be
my.
That
would
be
my
suggestion.
In
the
meantime,
I'm
always
open
to
happy
hour
or
okay.
A
A
Okay,
so
if
I'm
understanding
this
correctly,
we'll
just
go
ahead
and
continue
to
have
our
regular
have
meetings
on
zoom
as.
D
D
A
Of
a
great
sour
beer
brew
pub
in
east
boulder,
where
we
could
meet
and
be
outside,
and
that
would
be
totally
separate
from
the
meeting
correct.
A
Cool
okay,
great:
let's
go
to
item.
A
Staff-
and
I
believe
we'll
hand
this
over
to
jay
and
we'll
hear
about
a
couple
of
items:
regional,
affordable
housing,
implementation.
C
C
It's
all
right,
so
two
items
yeah,
like
you
said
the
first
is
it's
called.
I
think
everybody's
heard
of
the
the
regional
housing
partnership.
So
that's
an
effort
that
the
city
of
boulder
has
participated
in
with
all
of
the
boulder
county
jurisdictions,
as
well
as
boulder
county
and
the
home
wanted
campaign.
Hopefully
everybody's
familiar
with
that.
C
So
one
of
the
outcomes
of
that
was
all
these
different
jurisdictions.
Lafayette,
lewisville
others
have
really
embraced
affordable
housing
as
a
sort
of
regional
issue
right,
so
they
have
started
to
adopt
their
own
inclusionary
housing
programs.
C
But
the
challenge
is
they're:
very,
don't
have
extensive
staffs,
they
don't
have
a
lot
of
experience.
So
what
the
city
of
boulder
is
proposing
in
our
department
in
particular,
is
to
help
them
administer
their
their
inventory,
so
it
would
be
both
rental
homes
and
also
ownership
homes.
So,
basically
they
would
contract
with
the
city
and
we
would
administer
basically
just
like
the
whole
program
just
as
eric
described
it.
So
it
wouldn't
matter
if
the
home
was
in
boulder
or
if
the
home
was
in
louisville.
C
They
would
go
through
the
same
exact
process
and
the
same
thing
with
rental
compliance,
so
rental
compliance.
It's
a
it's
a
pretty
significant
issue,
so
anytime
you're
talking
about
getting
federal
funds,
particularly
through
housing
and
urban
development,
lots
of
strings
attached.
You
have
to
make
sure
you
document
everything
extremely
well
or
you
jeopardize
future
funding
funding.
So
basically,
I
just
wanted
to
give
this
group
a
heads
up.
We
gave
council
a
heads
up.
C
The
county
vote
will
vote
very
soon.
I
think
to
allocate
funding
to
start
up
this
program,
it
would
be
about
1.7
million
dollars
and
then
we'll
use
that
to
basically
get
some
under
government
agreements
in
place
and
then
help
get
this
program
up
and
running,
hopefully
by
early
2023.
C
So
the
second
one
has
to
do
with
oh
right,
what
I
can
remember
october
27th
so
remember
from
the
city
council
retreat.
Basically,
council
said
we
have
10
priorities.
Seven
of
them
relate
to
housing
staff,
get
all
these
done.
Staff
said
we
don't
have
capacity
to
do
that,
so
we
told
them.
You
know
we'll
come
back
in
the
fall
to
talk
more
about
the
their
initiatives
and
how
they
fit
into
the
city's
work
program.
C
I
am
happy
to
say
that
we
have
been
able
to
hire
more
staff
at
housing.
Human
services,
planning
and
development
services
is
different
story,
but
at
least
housing
and
human
services
will
be
able
to
go
to
council
in
sep
in
october
27th
to
talk
about
middle
income,
housing.
Two
things
specifically
the
down
payment
pilot.
Remember
that
ballot
initiative
to
provide
down
payment,
assistance
to
middle-income
households
and
then
also
what
I
was
talking
about
earlier
in
response
to
john's
question.
C
Was
you
know
how
do
we
make
changes
to
our
existing
inclusionary
housing
program
to
encourage
more
ownership
units
and
also
to
encourage
more
middle
income,
recognizing
all
the
challenges
that
are
associated
with
that,
so
that
study
session
is
october
27th?
Hopefully
we
will
have
been
able
to
do
some
work
and
at
least
lay
out
for
council
some
key
questions
of
and
issues
for
them
to
consider
we'll
preview
it
with
this
group
before
we
go
to
council
on
those
two
different
projects
and
then
there's
also
a
study
session
scheduled
for
september.
C
I
can't
remember
exactly
when,
but
when
I
have
that
I'll
pass
it
along
planning
and
development
services
is
also
going
to
council
for
a
study
session
to
talk
about
adus
and
other
the
other
housing
initiatives
that
they
would
lead,
but
we
housing
human
services
would
also
participate
in
just
a
quick
update.
I
just
want
to
let
you
know
that,
where
we
are
and
sort
of
that
progression
and
happy
to
answer
any
questions
about
that.
C
H
A
Staffing,
I
was
delighted
to
hear
that
the
city
had
hired
a
plane
director
and
would
like
to
request
that
that
new
director
maybe
attend
a
hand.
Meeting.
A
C
Yeah
and
the
other
great
news
is
the
the
department
also
hired
a
new
comprehensive
planning
manager
right
for
johnson,
something
something
like
that
anyway,.
I
C
C
C
A
So
on
item
two
j:
I'm
going
to
rewind
this
a
little
bit
to
the
retreat
discussion
away
preparing
for
some
recommendations
to
deliver
the
council
before
october.
27Th
is
really
important
and
we
have
kind
of
a
specific
charge
related
to
those.
A
Items
identified
at
their
retreat.
I
wonder
if
that's
something
we
we
should
devote
a
large
part
of
our
very
next
or
a
soon
future
meeting
to,
or
is
that
something
that
actually
we
want
to
hash
out
at
a
retreat.
G
I
always
lose
where
the
prompt
is
on
the
chat
thing,
so
you.
G
I
I
think
maybe
we
should
we
should.
You
know
we're
gonna
come
back
and
revisit
what
you
had
drafted
michael
too.
So
maybe
we
should
try
to
push
this
up
forward,
especially
since
we
don't
know
when
we're
going
to
do
the
retreat
itself,
and
this
could
be
a
a
good
discussion
on
it
in
a
lot
of
ways
you
know
in
and
of
itself
I
think,
but
that's
just.
G
A
A
Item
eight
deeply
convenient.
I
think
we
got
through
everything
on
the
agenda,
except
for
the
letter
from
council
that
I
didn't
send
everybody,
so
my
fault
on
that
one
really
enjoyed
the
presentation
on
for
sale
subsidized
housing.
A
F
I
have
a
thought
I
I,
I
suspect
that
it's
lynn,
I
don't
want
to
I
kind
of
lost
track
of
who's
who's
in
the
bottom
right
of
my
screen,
but
I
find
the
whoever
is
changing
their
name
over
and
over
again
is
extremely
distracting.
F
Several
times
I
kind
of
went
off
on
a
little
tangent
in
my
own
brain,
I'm
really
trying
to
pay
attention,
and
but
I
found
that
the
constant,
the
constant
barrage
of
of
very
short
tweets
in
the
in
the
name
to
be
very
distracting
and
I'd
appreciate
it.
If
we
didn't
allow
that.
C
I
mean
I
was
trying
to
give
paul
and
lynn
a
little
bit
of
the
ability
to
vent
because
they're
not
allowed
to
participate
like
a
normal
board
member.
So
I
think
it's
really
difficult.
I
think
a
lot
of
people
have
a
difficult
time
with
the
online
format,
and
so
this
is
sort
of
a
protest
but
yeah
that
sort
of
happened,
because
I
assume
it's
happening
in
other
boards
as
well,
so
I'll
find
out
what
they're
doing
about
it.
A
Yeah,
that
was
that
was
my
next
question.
What
are
other
boards
doing.
F
Well,
to
the
point
of
of
someone
who
just
changed
their
name
to,
I
beg
you.
Listen
it's
really
distracting
me
from
listening
is
is
really
my
point
that
I'm
trying
to
make.
B
Yeah
I
I
can
just
say
that
planning
board.
We
say
at
the
beginning
of
every
meeting
that
that
the
only
use
of
that
chat
is
to
discuss
technical
issues
with
with
staff
and
not
not
to
have
any
substantive
comments.
B
A
C
We
haven't
had
people
are
basically
joining
our
meetings
very
often
so
it
hasn't
been
a
problem,
but
obviously
we
need
to
bring
it
back,
but
yeah.
G
And
I
just
I
just
note
that
sometimes
it
can
feel
imbalanced
or
unfair
to
people
from
the
public.
But
you
know
our
our
whole
process,
as
with
every
local
entity,
is
really
based
off
of
robert's
rules,
which
goes
back
somewhere
in
the
neighborhood
of,
like
I
don't
know,
a
thousand
years
or
something
it's
just.
It's
just
the
only
way
to
get
stuff
done
in
fashion
and
what
I
will
say
for
for
dan.
G
You
know,
I
think
we
heard
some
of
the
comments
that
dan
was
making
regarding
his
concerns
like
with
hoas,
and
I
would
say
that
I
I
know
for
I
for
one
and
very
open
to
maybe
having
something
where
you
can
look
into
that
with
a
little
bit
more
detail
in
terms
of
what's
going
on
with
hoas
and
stuff
like
that,
because
you
know
the
big
concern
is
when
there's
the
disparity.
G
An
income
within
an
hour
can
be
very
difficult
for
people
who
are
in
a
restricted
budget,
but
there
are
a
lot
of
things
that
you
can
do
about
it,
and
I've
actually
been
involved
with
quite
a
bit
of
that
with
affordable
housing
projects,
and-
and
so
I
I
think,
it's
a
it's
a
it's
a
relevant
issue.
We
appreciate
the
the
comment
there.
G
Just
wasn't
a
a
a
forum
for
it
and
you
know
certainly
eric
was
you
know
here
really
trying
to
you
know,
provide
as
much
information
as
possible
and
I
really
appreciate
what
he
did
and
so
so
just
because
we
didn't
talk
about
it
now,
it's
certainly
something
that
I
think
could
be
germaine
for
a
future
meeting
to
kind
of
look
into
and
see.
If
there's
something
we
can
do
to
create
a
better
solution,
so
to
speak,.
I
H
A
Become
a
holiday
from
a
lot
of
organizations,
it's
great
and
we
wouldn't
do
a
heavier
holiday.
B
Yeah
not
to
talk
too
much,
but
just
to
mention
that,
with
respect
to
the
comments
in
the
chat,
another
consideration
is
that
that
those
comments
are
not
part
of
the
of
the
record
of
the
meeting
and
therefore
it's
probably
you
know
it's
probably
inappropriate
to
to
consider
them
in
the
meeting
itself.
B
The
other
thing
I
just
wanted
to
mention
is
to
make
sure
that
and
jay
is
probably
familiar
with
the
rules,
but
I
know
in
planning
board
we
got
to
be
very
careful
whenever
more
than
two
of
the
members
get
together,
even
as
in
a
social
occasion
not
to
violate
the
sunshine
laws
about
you
know
in
informal
meetings
and
so
on.
So
that
may
be
something
you
want
to
consider
in
in
your
comments
about
the
social
team
and
the
right
and
the
reason
I'm
sure
jack
will
give
you
guidance
on
that.
A
Yeah
we
did
have
a
purely
social
gathering
for
the
holidays
with
several
board
members.
I
think
it
was
more
than
three
and
we
didn't
consider
that
when
we
did
not
deal
with
any
hab
business
at.
G
D
A
Okay,
I
think
we've
covered
everything
we
need
to
cover.
Do
you
want
to
hear,
if
can
maybe
entertain
a
motion
to
adjourn
michael?
Can
we
talk
about
it
next
week?
Oh
yeah,
I'm
sorry.
What
is
the
date
for
the.
C
Oh
perfect,
I
was
afraid
it
was
gonna
look
yeah.
So
what
I
have
in
the
work
plan
that
I
sent
out
was
to
talk
about
adus,
so
I
just
wanted
to
make
sure
that
that's
was
still
of
interest
to
the
board.
So
what
I
was
thinking
is
just
as
a
prep
for
your
conversation
about
things
that
you
might
want
to
recommend
to
council
to
focus
on.
I
can
give
you
a
history
of
what
we
did
back
in
2018
when
we
last
updated
the
program.
C
I
can
also
just
give
you
a
more
of
a
history
of
the
program
and
and
how
the
regulations
have
evolved
over
the
years.
I
don't
have
any
sort
of
new
up-to-date
information
yet,
but
at
least
I
can
get
you
up
to
2018
and
beyond.
I
A
I
propose
that
we
do
something
informational
on
adus
in
june
and
then
have
a
discussion
on
potential
action
step.
This
is
an
area
where
council
is
looking
for
some
more
technical
advice.
I
believe-
and
that
could
be
something
we
could
weigh
in
on
the
july
meeting,
once
we've
fully
informed
ourselves.
A
C
A
Yeah,
I
think,
maybe
separate
sessions
in
separate
months
with
those
two
would
be
a
good
idea.
A
I
A
Thanks
good
job
board
and
steph,
thank
you
all.
Do
I
hear
a
motion
to
adjourn
still.
A
Okay,
without
a
second
from
a
board
member.