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From YouTube: Boulder Housing Advisory Board Meeting 2-26-20
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A
B
B
B
The
agenda
review
I
just
want
to
go
through
briefly
for
everybody
in
the
audience
and
give
you
a
little
bit
of
a
outline
of
what
we're
going
to
be
doing
and
how
it
will
be
structured
here.
So
you
know
what's
happening,
we're
gonna
start
with
a
brief
public
comment
just
for
open
comment.
That
open
comment
is,
if
you
have
something
other
than
tiny
homes.
Okay.
B
B
One
is
a
short
video
and
then
we
have
three
speakers
here:
one
city
staff,
member
and
two
other
guest
speakers
who
come
in
we'll
go
through
those
presentations
about
ten
minutes.
Each
is
what
we're
trying
to
achieve
with
those
and
after
that,
we'll
recreate
our
circle
and
then
we'll
come
down
into
the
listening
session.
B
B
So
Jay,
can
you
cue
up
this
video
and
I'm
gonna,
just
prep
it
a
little
bit.
This
gentleman
who's
going
to
be
speaking,
is
presenting
to
the
San
Diego
City
Council,
as
they
were,
considering
an
ordinance
around
tiny
homes,
and
he
his
name
is
Daniel
Fitzpatrick.
He
is
I,
believe
the
president,
if
I'm
correct
Byron,
you
could
probably
of
the
american
tiny
homes,
association,
sorry,
tiny
home
industry
association,
and
so
we
have
just
a
six
minute
clip
of
him
giving
his
presentation
it's
a
nice
little
overview.
H
B
Thanks
for
reminding
me
yeah,
so
that
that
would
be
good.
What
we're
trying
to
achieve
I
think
tonight
is
a
few
different
things.
We
know
that
the
City
Council
has
an
interest
in
tiny
homes.
We
know
the
community
has
an
interest
in
tiny
homes,
we're
trying
to
give
feedback
to
Council,
eventually
from
the
board,
and
what
we
try
to
achieve
tonight,
I
think
is
have
a
community
discussion
first
around
what
tiny
homes
are,
how
we
classify
them?
What
do
we
call
a
tiny
home,
because
there
are
different
definitions?
B
Some
people
consider
certain
things:
tiny
homes
and
other
people
don't
consider
those
same
thing:
tiny
homes,
so
there's
kind
of
an
educational
component
to
it
that
we're
trying
to
do
part
of
that
has
to
do
with
where
we
are
with
the
city
and
in
that
process
of
considering
tiny
homes.
So
there
will
be
some
of
that
and
that's
kind
of
what
our
presentations
are
more
about
to
give
us
kind
of
a
context
for
the
tiny
home
and
Boulder
beyond
that.
B
What
we're
really
looking
to
do
here
is
gain
perspective
from
you,
community
members
and
people
who
have
been
involved
with
tiny
homes
and
living
in
tiny
homes,
potentially
to
start
to
engage
with
pros
and
cons
of
different
types
of
tiny
homes
and
even
into
the
zoning
potentially
of
well.
Where
would
we
want
as
a
community
to
see
them?
How
could
we
use
them?
What
members
of
our
community,
what
populations
could
they
serve
as
an
affordable
housing
issue?
Anything
I'm
missing
in
there?
You
know
that's
good
enough,
okay,
so
we
will
start
with
this
video.
Then.
I
My
staff
asked
me
to
cover
three
things
in
10
minutes
on
their
talk,
quick
one
is
what
are
tiny
homes,
two
tiny
homes
in
terms
of
being
used
as
accessory
dwelling
units
and
three
tiny
homes
or
Buhl
tiny
homes
and
the
utilization
for
infill.
You
know
properties,
whether
remnant
properties,
city-owned
properties
or
whatever
for
affordable
housing.
First
of
all,
what
is
a
tiny
house
and
tiny
houses
are
basically
now
defined
legally
in
the
new
2018
international
residential
code.
I
I
We
even
have
a
number
of
stackable.
You
know
units
I,
think
Michael
was
talking
about
some
of
the
things
that
can
be
done
in
the
private
sector,
using
factory
built
components
that
you
can
stack
and
a
number
of
these
I
I
know
are
being
built
in
a
Bay,
Area
I,
don't
know
if
you
have
these
in
San
Diego
at
this
point
in
time.
I
Why
so?
That's
what
I
mean
a
tiny
house
is
and,
as
I
said,
it's
a
range.
We
also
support.
You
know,
containers
and
other
types
of
building,
that's
four
hundred
square
feet
or
less
now.
What
are
movable,
tiny
houses,
moogle,
tiny
houses
are
not
your
conventional
RV.
In
fact,
if
you
write
an
ordinance
to
define
moogle
tiny
houses,
I
can
show
you
a
hundred
different
ways
of
writing
it
in
such
a
way
that
none
of
these
will
ever
be
considered.
A
movable
tiny.
I
You
know,
house
moogle,
tiny
houses
are
built
to
resemble
a
typical
cottage
or
bungalow,
and
these
are
typical
pictures
of
units
that
are
located
in
different
areas
in
California
they're.
Basically,
a
you
go
to
next
slide
a
sick
built
house.
The
foundation
just
happens
to
be
on
a
chassis
versus
on
a
concrete.
You
know,
slab
or
foundation,
built
with
the
same
2x4.
You
know
wood
or
steel
construction.
All
of
the
support
that
plumbing
electrical
and
so
forth,
built
in
accordance
with
code.
I
You
can
have
many
different
designs
depending
on
the
particular
neighborhood
in
which
it
plans
to
go
that
you
can
put
any
type
of
facade.
You
want
on
these
particular
units,
and
certainly
the
interiors
are
designed
to
meet
all
of
your
requirements
for
habitation
for
living,
sleeping,
cooking
and
sanitation
keywords
right
out
of
the
health
and
safety.
You
know
code
for
a
habitable
dwelling
unit.
In
fact,
these
units
are
actually
built
stronger
than
a
stick
built
house,
because
they're
made
to
be
able
to
go
70
miles
an
hour
down
the
freeway.
I
You
know
and
hit
a
you
know,
pothole,
and
if
you
look
at
the
interiors
here,
you
will
find
total
drywall.
You
can
imagine
what
a
pothole
would
do
with
drywall
or
plaster
the
interior
they're
all
very
well
built,
so
you've
got
basically
your
sheathing
on
both
sides.
That's
you
know:
wood
or
whatever,
holding
it
together.
A
movable,
tiny
house
is
one
thing:
that's
you
know
people
say
you
know
why
not
have
sic
built,
you
know
Adu
or
you
know,
versus
a
movable.
Well,
many
people
have,
you
know,
want
flexibility.
I
They
may
only
need
it
for
five
or
you
know,
six
or
seven
years
in
their
backyard
as
an
Adu.
You
know
many
of
them
are
truly
being
used
as
granny
flats
or
caregiver
facilities,
or
to
put
a
family
member
through
college
or
a
family
member
or
friend
comes
back
from
overseas
tour
needs
to
get
their
life
together.
It's
perfect,
you
know
way
of
doing
that
very
quickly
and
conveniently
one
of
the
items
I'll
go
through.
B
H
Evening
everybody,
so
my
name
is
Jay
studnets
I
am
a
planner
with
the
city
of
Boulder
housing
and
Human.
Services
I
want
to
start
off
by
saying
that
I
am
NOT
an
expert
on
tiny
homes,
far
from
it,
but
what
I'm
gonna
try
to
do
is
share
sort
of
what
I've,
what
I've
learned
from
the
city's
perspective-
and
this
is
also
an
opportunity
for
the
city
to
learn
as
well
from
the
community.
So
I
just
want
to
be
clear
about
that.
So
if
I
say
something
that
you
completely
disagree
with,
let
me
know
so.
H
I
just
wanted
to
be
clear,
this
a
little
hard
to
read,
but
this
is
from
back
in
2013,
so
tiny
homes
were
identified
as
a
potential
tool
to
address
some
of
boulders,
affordable
housing
challenges.
I
know
it's
been
talked
about
ever
since
I've
been
at
the
city,
it's
also
been
on
City
Council's
work
plan
for
a
number
of
years.
It
never
quite
rose
to
the
top,
wasn't
prioritized,
but
it's
always
sort
of
percolated
just
below
the
surface.
H
H
So
some
communities
have
looked
at
as
a
potential
solution
for
instead
of
a
shopping
cart
to
have
something
a
little
bit
more
secure
for
our
plate
and
safe
place
to
sleep
and
store
personal
items,
and
that's
the
image
on
the
bottom
there
and
then
it's
more
of
the
traditionally.
You
would
think
about
sort
of
the
tiny
amount
of
fixed
foundation,
something
that
could
be.
H
You
know
on
a
single
parcel
out
in
the
country
or
on
an
individual
a
lot,
but
in
the
boulder
context,
mostly,
what
you're
gonna
see
is
a
tiny
home
as
an
accessory
dwelling
unit,
so
Boulder
just
back
in
2018,
relax
significantly.
The
accessory
dwelling
unit
regulations
in
the
city
and
with
the
update
to
the
city's
building
code
that
I'll
talk
about
in
a
little
bit
makes
it
much
easier
to
build
these,
and
that's
so.
From
our
perspective.
We
see
that
is
where
the
most
likelihood
of
seeing
tiny
homes
in
Boulder
in
the
foreseeable
future.
H
So
another
big
question
that
I
think
it's
important
to
ask
is:
who
are
we
trying
to
serve
with
the
by
tiny-home?
A
lot
of
one
option?
Is
it's
sort
of
this
transitional
housing
so
one
step
from
living
on
the
street,
so
people,
maybe
who
have
mental
or
addiction
issues
or
potentially
both
who
are
not
quite
ready
for
permanent
housing,
and
this
has
been
used
as
a
solution
in
other
communities
up
north.
The
picture
on
top
is
sort
of
this.
Where
residents
build
these
themselves
and
then
there's
a
much
more
intentional
approach.
H
And
you
can
you
hear
about
that?
Sorry,
I
borrowed
your
picture.
I
hope
you
don't
mind.
I
forgot
to
ask
your
permission
first
and
then
the
traditional
housing,
so
it
could
be
a
rental
housing
so
that
ad,
you
example
I
gave.
You
is
always
going
to
be
a
rental,
because
it's
on
a
single
family,
a
single
families
owned
parcel
and
then
it
is
potential
for
a
lower
cost.
H
So
that's
why
I
had
the
question
marks
and
then
these
slides
get
into
the
regulatory
piece
and
I
borrowed.
These
I
want
to
be
really
clear
from
Dawn
Eliot,
who
is
the
planner
with
Clarion
Associates
here
in
Denver
he's
given
a
number
of
presentations
on
tiny
homes
and
the
regulatory
arena
around
them
and
I
think
this
just
really
wanted
to
get
the
point
across.
Even
though
they're
not
RVs
tiny
homes
are,
for
the
most
part
regulated
just
like
there
would
be
RVs.
So,
like
the
speaker
said,
it
has
a
lot
to
do
with.
H
Are
they
safe
to
move
on
the
highway?
Not
are
they
safe
to
live
in?
So
that's
one
way
to
do
it.
The
other
is.
If
it's
on
a
fixed
foundation,
then
it
has
to
meet
the
building
code
and
there
are
a
number
of
layers
in
addition
to
the
building
codes.
So
the
building
code
is
all
about.
What
is
that
structure
safe
to
live
in
the
zoning
regulations?
Talk
about
well,
where
can
it
be
built?
Are
there
certain
is
a
residential,
non-residential,
multi-family
or
not?
What
are
this
all
those
regulations?
H
That's
part
of
the
zoning
and
then
subdivision
regulations
have
more
to
do
with
whether
or
not
you
could
be
able
to
subdivide
and
potentially
sell
that
tiny
home
and
in
the
boulder
example.
Currently,
if
you
build
an
accessory
dwelling
unit
in
your
back
yard,
you
are
not
allowed
to
condo.
Is
that
and
sell
it
off
separately
as
it's
always
associated
with
the
primary
residence?
And
then,
of
course,
there
are
private
covenants
and
Don
says
we
can
ignore
it.
H
The
building
code
is,
is
it
safe
to
live
in
and
it's
and
it
has
to
do
with
our
people-
gonna
be
living
in
there
for
30
days
or
more,
so
that's
sort
of
the
trigger
of
whether
or
not
want
to
make
sure
it's
a
safe
environment
to
be
in,
and
so
it
has
to
meet
either
the
International
or
residential
code
or
comparable
state
or
local
regulation,
or
it
has
to
meet
the
HUD
standards
for
manufactured
homes
and
there's
a
lot
more
detail
that
we
could
get
into
with
those.
We
just
want
to
be
clear.
H
Many
of
the
tiny
homes
currently
do
not
meet
Xavier
with
those
and
then
my
last
piece
is
just
to
talk
about
what
happened
at
the
City
Council.
Recently.
I
just
want
to
be
super
clear
so
with
the
city
on
a
regular
basis,
updates
our
building
code
to
match
the
International
residential
code,
and
this
year
it
just
happened
to
include
standards
for
tiny
homes,
which
is
great,
but
that
was
not
the
intent
of
the
update.
H
But
Boulder
was
very
clear
that
our
council
was
very
clear
in
terms
of
requiring
tiny
homes
to
be
set
out
of
fixed
foundation
and
also
to
be
connected
to
utilities.
So
some
things
to
consider
tiny
homes
reimbold
are
considered
just
like
some
detached
single-family
homes.
So
it
doesn't
matter
if
it's
400
square
feet
or
four
thousand
or
eight
thousand
its
treated
the
same.
H
If
you
were
to
build
a
tiny
home,
you
would
still
have
to
be
provide
25%
of
a
community
benefit
in
terms
of
affordable
housing,
which
adds
to
the
cost
and
I
think
what,
as
I
said
earlier,
I
think
one
of
the
most
likely
scenarios
is
you're,
gonna,
see
more
a
private
property
owner
building
or
bringing
in
a
tiny
home
as
an
accessory
dwelling
unit.
So
that's
just
a
quick
overlay
just
overview
any
questions
or
anything
did
I
offend.
Anyone
say
something
wrong.
I.
D
Just
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
on
the
same
page
of
whether
or
not
you're,
talking
about
a
chunk
of
land
or
not
and
again
what
I
got
asked
a
lot
of
questions
for
was
after
the
last
City
Council
meeting
and
the
headline
read:
tiny
houses
are
now
legal
in
Boulder,
and
that
was
perpetuated
by
you
know
some
misinformation
out
there.
Our
tiny
house
is
legal
in
Boulder
as.
D
H
D
D
Build
out
of
the
saturation
limits
that
we
have
I
think
the
overall
was
estimated
to
be
one
half
of
one
percent
of
our
entire
housing
inventory
correct
so
with
a
full,
complete
build-out
of
a
DS,
and
we
those
significantly
relaxed
rules,
we're
still
only
looking
at
one
half
of
one
percent
of
our
entire
housing
population.
When.
D
Yes,
after
10
years
of
piloting-
yes,
yes,
okay,
you
also
mentioned
that
ad
use
on
slabs
when
we,
when
you're
under
who
does
it
serve.
So
you
mentioned
ad
used
on
slabs
as
a
part
of
the
housing,
and
one
of
the
discussions
you
and
I
have
just
for
full
disclosure
is
one
of
the
considerations
about
discussing
and
entering
the
conversation
of
tiny
houses
on
trailers
is
to
build
equity.
D
So
when
we
talk
housing,
mobility
and
entering
in
individuals
who
already
own
their
homes
and
create
communities
versus
just
creating
more
renters,
so
would
that
serve
another
population?
Is
there
a
pop
I
guess
the
question
is:
is
there
a
possibility
to
serve
more
than
just
the
two
types
being
renters
and
creating
more
renters
and
communities?
Well,.
H
H
House
you
have
to
own
it
right.
You
have
to
own
a
piece
of
land
yeah,
so
it's
the
same
issue
with
manufactured
housing
right,
so
you
may
pay
rent
for
your
pad.
You
own
the
home,
but
the
challenge
is
a
lot
of
the
times.
The
loans
that
you
get
are
not
favorable,
because
they're
considered
chattel
as
opposed
to
home
ownership
loans.
So
you
don't
get
all
the
great
tax
advantages
that
we
bestow
on
home
ownership
in
this
country,
mm-hmm.
C
H
F
So
when
you
said
sorry
when
you
said
a
ownership,
so,
but
you
said
that
that
we
already,
we
already
made
a
decision
that
you
can't
condominium
eyes,
one
of
those,
and
so
it's
it's
essentially
it
runs.
It
runs
with
the
with
the
main
home
in
perpetuity
right.
So
if
it's
an
ad
you
reppin
ad
you
right.
So
what
kind
of
scenarios
have
we
contemplated
in
terms
of
ownership
of
the
tiny
home
without
having
some
other
property
interest
me
personally,
all
right,
the
city.
H
No
I
would
say
it
has
not
really
been
contemplated.
As
a
housing
type
I
mean
the
challenge
is
yes,
you
can
build.
If
you
own
a
piece
of
land,
you
can
build
a
tiny
house
and
we'll
regulate
it.
Just
like
we
would
a
regular
big
house.
So
the
question
is,
if
you
own
the
land,
and
you
can
build
a
tiny
house
versus
a
larger
house,
what
are
the
economics
that
go
into
that
right?
All.
B
Yeah
I
think
I
want
to
make
one
point:
I
think
that
these
are
and
for
everybody
here,
I
think
these
are
some
of
the
things
that
we
want
to
engage
with
9,
and
so
we
want
to
set
the
groundwork
here
of
where
the
city
is
right
now
and
understand.
Where
else
we
could
go
with
this.
In
other
words,
is
this
serving
us
to
the
fullest
extent
possible,
or
can
we
go
further?
Did
you
have
something
that
you
want
to
add?
B
H
Guys
had
one
quick
slide:
ok
last
slide,
so
what
I?
What
I
would
suggest
might
be
helpful
for
everybody
is
to
think
about
when
you
say
tiny
home.
What
do
you?
What
do
you
mean
because
I
think
my
experience
is
everybody
in
this
room
probably
has
a
very
not
a
very
different,
but
a
distinctly
different
impression
about
what
a
tiny
home
is.
So
you
know
some
ways
as
you're
talking
about
it.
Is
it
on
wheels?
Is
it
on
a
fixed
foundation,
very
different
scenario?
Is
it
connected
to
utilities
or
not
mrs.
H
B
Yeah
thanks
Jay
Cory
Jay.
Is
it
best
if
we
ask
the
speakers
to
come
up
and
sit
next
to
you,
yeah
I?
Think,
okay,
so
Jan
could
you
join
us?
This
is
Jan
Burton
who
was
in
the
past
City
Councilmember
and
is
now
working
on
building
modular.
If
I'm
correct
I'll,
let
you
actually
explain
what
you're
doing
and
then
and
then
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
environment
around
constructing
these
okay.
J
Super
thank
you
good
evening.
Everyone,
my
name,
is
Jan
Burton
and
I
am
a
boulder
resident
and
I'm.
Also
owner
of
a
company
called
rhino
cubed,
which
we
began,
making
quote-unquote
tiny
homes
in
January,
1
of
2014.
So
more
than
six
years
now,
I
say
quote
unquote,
because
everyone
has
a
different
definition
of
what
a
tiny
home
was.
In
fact,
our
company
has
always
built
two
IRC
standards
and
again
as
Jay
described.
Irc
is
the
international
residential
code
which
is
used
in
cities
like
Boulder
for
housing.
J
So
I
just
want
to
tell
you
that
I'm
not
going
to
be
a
big
huge
Rara
cheerleader
for
tiny
homes,
I
think
it's
more,
my
my
Vince
as
a
resident
of
Boulder
and
a
former
council
member
to
talk
about
the
pros
and
the
cons
and
where
I
see
them
fitting,
as
well
as
maybe
providing
some
advice
of
how
I
think
the
housing
advisory
board
and
this
community
can
make
a
bigger
impact
in
housing
with
some
other
policies
and
I.
Think
are
more
hurtful
that
unless
we
change
we'll
never
really
make
progress
with
small
homes.
J
So
the
tiny
one
movement
started
really
back
in
hippie
days
with
the
original
inspiration
being
Henry
David
Thoreau's
Walden.
There
was
a
book
that
was
published
in
the
in
the
90s
by
a
woman
named
Sarah
sue
Sanka,
who
is
really
viewed
as
as
the
person
who
started
talking
about
the
not
so
big
house,
and
then
a
guy
named
Jay
Shafer,
who
I
have
been
on
talks
with
offered
the
first
building
plans
for
tiny
homes
on
wheels.
J
Then
the
tiny
momentum
started
with
the
financial
crisis
in
2007-2008,
so
many
many
people
who
got
shoved
out
of
the
housing
market
decided
well
I
could
do
this.
I
could
build
this
on
my
own
and
why
not?
So
it
was
a
desire
for
no
mortgage
for
smaller
fees.
In
fact,
if
you
look
at
the
ownership
of
small
homes
across
the
country,
most
of
them
like
76%,
do
not
have
a
mortgage.
So
it's
really
a
valid
approach
to
living
much
more
less
expensively
and
in
2015
my
company
was
part
of
a
tiny
home
Jamboree.
J
J
So
what
is
part
of
what
has
generated
this?
In
1950
average
home
price
at
home,
sit
home,
size,
980
square
feet
with
four
people
living
in
it
today,
it's
over
2,800
square
feet,
and
usually
it's
just
2
or
2.1
people
living
in
the
house.
So
what
has
happened
to
our
society
and
what
happened
to
cause
this
and
what
gotten
one
thing
that
got
me
interested,
I,
don't
know
if
you
can
see
this.
J
J
So
in
my
when
I
graduated
from
college
and
started
out,
there
were
starter
homes,
but
in
this
day
and
age,
no
more
starter
homes,
so
this
is
not
only
damaging
to
young
people
and
older
people
in
a
financial
crisis,
but
you
also
think
about
the
impact
of
student
debt
so
and
by
the
way.
If
you
looked
at
this
picture
today,
it's
probably
no
different,
so
we
have
to
look
at
policies
that
are
bigger
than
all
of
that.
J
So
the
reality
today
for
tiny
homes,
the
building
codes
and
city
expectations
are
different
city
by
city
county
by
county.
That
makes
it
very
difficult
for
builders
to
know
exactly
what
they
can
build
and
where
they
can
be
permitted.
Zoning
and
land
use
and
density
are
bigger
issues
even
than
the
codes.
J
So
what
you
just
heard
is
the
City
of
Bowl
Boulder
has
adopted
a
version
of
the
code,
the
IRC
code
that
allows
a
small
home
if
it
is
we're
a
tiny
home
if
it's
on
a
foundation,
but
does
that
solve
the
zoning
and
the
land
use
issues
and
the
density
perceptions
in
this
town
know
you
look
at
the
land
in
the
land
cost.
So
this
is
one
very
specific
thing
for
the
city
of
Boulder.
How
much
is
land
kind
of
expensive
in
it?
J
So
how
many
people
are
gonna,
buy
an
$80,000,
tiny
home
and
put
it
on
a
piece
of
property
in
Boulder,
exactly
zero
because
they
can't
afford
the
land.
You
don't
put
an
$80,000
house
on
$500,000
piece
of
property.
The
cost
of
building
I
was
talking
to
you
before
the
cost
of
building
has
has
erupted
about
40%
in
the
last,
probably
three
or
four
years.
That
includes
building
materials.
It
includes
a
place
to
build
it
and
includes
labor,
so
the
cost
of
building
these
units
has
become
more
and
more
of
an
issue.
J
That's
true
with
the
entire
housing
industry,
but
I
want
you
to
know
it's
also
true.
Unless
you
use
something
like
habitat
or
something
like
that,
the
cost
of
building
them
is
very
real.
Financing
is
an
issue
because
banks
don't
want
to
do
something,
they
don't
really
understand.
So
the
question
is
how
many
real
people
live
in
small,
tiny
houses
and,
frankly,
not
very
many,
and
that's
because
we
haven't
been
creative
about
solving
a
lot
of
these
issues.
J
So
what
are
some
very
appropriate
uses
for
tiny
and
when
I
say
tiny
homes?
I
mean
the
ones
that
are
not
put
on
irce
code
that
are
not
put
on
trailer
they're?
Definitely
fantastic
for
homeless
I
mean
why?
Wouldn't
we?
In
fact,
the
council
went
to
Portland,
came
back
and
Aaron
Brackett
and
I
were
really
trying
to
get
us
to
do
something
for
the
homeless
and
the
council
voted
it
down.
But
that
would
be
a
great
area,
something
like
college
housing.
J
We
have
college
kids
that
are
spending
$1400
a
month
on
housing
up
on
the
hill.
Why
wouldn't
we
consider
temporary
something
at
CU
South,
allowing
students
to
stay
in
in
tiny
homes
they
could
cut
their
their
housing
bill
and
their
student
debt
by
huge
amounts
pocket
neighborhoods?
Where
land
is
cheap
or
adding
them
to
mobile
home
parks,
no-brainer
and
then
part-time
cabins?
So
now
I'd
like
to
serve
up
a
few
ideas
that
we
might
talk
about
as
a
group
that
are
a
little
bit
more
broader
than
just
bringing
in
tiny
homes.
J
B
B
J
One
thing
is
mentioned:
is
that
they're
really
approved
as
accessory
dwelling
units?
That's
true.
We
still
have
the
most
arduous
Adu
guidelines
in
the
country,
so
one
thing
we
could
consider
is
having
two
structures
on
a
on
a
piece
of
property
that
could
be
an
Adu
and
a
Maine
in
1990s
Boulder
had
housed
behind
a
house.
It
was
a
program.
So
that's
one
thing:
we
should
consider
number
to
give
financial
benefits
for
building
smaller.
So
more
carrots
like
waive
some
of
those
fees
like
what
Jay
talked
about.
J
J
We
have
livability
standards
that
affect
all
of
our
affordable
housing
like
you
have
to
have
a
coat
closet.
You
have
to
have
blinds
that
come
up
and
down
things
like
that
that
are
perceived
things
that
everyone
should
have,
but
but
it
adds
a
lot
of
cost
sprinkler
systems.
In
a
small
house.
You
can
walk
three
steps
to
the
door.
Why
should
you
have
a
sprinkler
system
and
then,
finally,
educating
and
ruling
the
public
about
density
and
environmentalism
and
how
smaller
can
be
very,
very
important
in
helping
us
achieve
our
environmental
and
affordability
objective?
J
B
B
Solomon
and
mark
is
with
the
veterans
community
project
he's
the
founder
and
he's
been
doing
some
great
work
in
he's
a
veteran
himself
and
he's
been
doing
some
great
work
and
housing
veterans
using
tiny
homes,
both
in
Kansas
City
and
now
in
Longmont,
and
so
he's
going
to
give
us
a
little
bit
of
a
picture
of
the
community
that
served
or
one
community
and
how
it's
been
served
and
then
also
talk
a
little
bit
about
his
experience
with
getting
these
projects
off
the
ground
and
getting
tiny
homes
allowed
in
these
developments.
Thanks
Thank.
K
K
I've
I
am
in
the
Navy.
Still
fifteen
and
a
half
years
served
in
Baghdad
in
2008
to
our
2007-2008
came
back
basically,
with
these
gentlemen
realized
that
there
was
a
need
for
serving
veterans.
These
are
people
who
were
willing
to
give
their
life
for
their
country
and
when
they
came
home
a
lot
of
times
the
hoops
you
have
to
jump
through
the
answers
a
lot
of
times.
No,
you
know
we
don't
have
money
for
a
bus
pass
so
that
you
can
get
to
work.
K
We
don't
have
money
to
help
you
with
your
rent
payments,
so
you
get
kicked
out
of
your
apartment.
Whatever
it
is,
the
answer
was
typically
no,
and
so
we
decided
we
wanted
to
form
an
organization
that
said
yes
nationally.
Just
so
you
understand
a
little
bit
about
where
we
started
and
why
the
the
government
estimates
there's
about
forty
thousand
homeless
veterans
sleeping
on
the
streets
every
given
night
in
Kansas
City.
K
K
This
is
the
land
we
bought
in
Kansas
City,
the
city
sold
it
to
us
for
five
hundred
dollars
and
didn't
have
any
infrastructure
sewer
water,
electric
I
know
those
prices
are
a
little
different
here.
So
five
acres
of
land,
five
hundred
dollars,
retail
of
that
land
would
probably
be
approximately
Kansas
City
at
the
time
about
forty
thousand
ish
dollars
for
that
property.
K
The
picture
on
the
right
is
kind
of
our
concept
plan,
so
our
goal
was
to
put
49
tiny
houses
on
this
plot
of
land
and
Unity
Center
to
serve
the
veterans
there,
and
that
is
exactly
what
we
did.
We
use
trades
volunteers,
members
of
the
community
to
help
us
build
these
houses.
They
are
built
on
foundations.
They
are
permitted
structures,
so
they
meet
all
building
codes
for
new
construction.
We
talked
about
the
IRC
codes
being
adopted.
K
I
was
actually
at
the
meeting
and
happened
to
be
in
Kansas
City
for
the
IRC
when
when
those
codes
were
adopted,
so
that
was
a
neat
thing.
It
allowed
municipalities
to
do
exactly
what's
happened
here,
which
is,
which
is
a
neat
framework
to
start,
writes
a
blueprint
basically
in
Kansas
City.
They
they
I
believe
even
to
this
day,
have
not
adopted
those
so
we're
using
basically
old
cottage
codes
that
were
basically
started.
I.
K
Think
when
the
pilgrims
came,
it's
not
entirely
accurate
history,
wise
and
so
again
we
use
volunteers,
but
there
is
sewer
water
electric
infrastructure.
Again
there
are
permanent
structures.
This
is
what
the
village
looks
like.
These
are
single
occupancy
units,
they're
240
square
feet.
We
varied
the
roof
lines,
the
colors
things
like
that,
so
that
it
looks
more
like
a
subdivision
instead
of
row
of
tract
houses.
The
houses
behind
this
picture
are
actually
family
units.
We
have
in
Kansas
City
of
the
49
tiny
houses.
We
have.
K
We
actually
have
four
family
units
and
we
do
have
families
living
with
us.
So
we've
got
veterans,
men,
women,
peacetime,
vets,
wartime
vets.
We
serve
any
veteran
who
ever
served
so,
regardless
of
their
discharge
status,
we
don't
take
any
federal
funds,
so
it's
all
private
funds,
so
we
are
able
to
serve
any
veteran
in
need.
K
This
is
a
picture
of
our
village
about
a
month
ago,
we're
working
on
the
grass,
but
we
just
finished
this.
This
was
about
a
two
year
process
to
do
all
49
tiny
houses.
The
building
in
the
upper
left,
is
our
community
center.
It's
a
five
thousand
square
foot
facility
that
services,
the
veterans
in
the
village.
We've
got
a
dentist
chair.
There
we've
got
cuts
available.
We
have
people
that
come
in
and
volunteer
and
give
the
vets
haircuts.
K
So
we
treat
the
whole
person,
including
their
family
members
and
in
this
case
that
maybe
their
pets,
that's
typically,
especially
if
they
live
on
the
streets
and
they
have
a
pet
they're
not
going
into
a
shelter
because
most
shelters
don't
take
their
pets
and
they're
not
leaving
their
dog
outside
in
the
winter.
So
let
us
sleep
on
the
streets.
Also.
Another
reason
for
this
particular
population
is,
as
a
veteran
I
will
tell
you:
I,
don't
have
PTSD
type
issues
yet
I'm,
not
gonna
sleep
without
the
house
and
other
people
when
we
were
eating.
K
You
know
dinner
back
here,
my
door.
My
back
was
to
this
door
back
here
and
that
kind
of
makes
me
a
little
nervous
right.
So
we
design
our
houses
with
veterans
in
mind.
Basically,
they
have
their
own
kind
of
private
space
in
the
back.
All
the
windows
are
on
the
one
side,
so
they
have
total
control
of
their
space
with
living
in
our
village.
It
comes
with
case
management.
K
We
have
an
8
to
1
caseload
with
our
case
managers
that
make
sure
that
our
veterans
are
taken
care
of,
so
it's
very
accountable
and
the
veterans
actually
have
formed
a
community,
so
it's
almost
barracks
style
living
without
the
barracks,
so
the
veterans
take
care
of
each
other
to
make
sure
that
they're
not
doing
silly
things
that
they
shouldn't
do
to
the
point
of.
As
I
mentioned,
we
have
children
living
in
our
village
with
our
veterans,
one
of
our
veterans
got
custody
of
his
kids
back
every
other
weekend,
so
very
safe
place.
K
K
They
can
stay
up
to
two
years
in
our
program
when
they
transition
out,
we
make
sure
that
they
get
to
take
everything
with
them,
so
if
they
go
into
an
apartment
or
whatever
it
is
more
permanent
type
housing.
Now
they
have
all
of
the
things
they
need.
They
can
take
the
bed
and
all
that
we
basically
just
refit
the
house
with
all
of
those
things
and
then
keep
on
going.
K
Another
way
we
get
the
community
involved
is
we
actually
typically
will
do
when
we
were
refitting
a
house
with
for
a
new
resident,
we
will
just
put
an
Amazon
wish
list
out
and
then
people
just
click
stuff.
Just
shows
up,
and
now
we
can
outfit
a
new
house.
So
it's
a
neat
way
to
get
the
community
involved,
even
if
they
can't
come
down
and
volunteer
or
help
us
build,
or
do
any
of
that.
Sometimes
it's
just
easy
to
go
online
and
click.
K
And
last
couple
of
slides
here,
so
we're
actually
going
to
be
building
a
community
in
Longmont.
We
should
hopefully
break
ground
sometime
in
the
next
60
days
and
then
we
will
build
houses
later
this
summer
hope
to
have
10
done
by
the
end
of
this
year
and
16
more
next
year,
along
with
a
3,000
square-foot
community
center.
What's
really
neat
about
what
long
month
is
doing
is
that
they
are
putting
the
tiny
houses
for
homeless
veterans
next
to
a
high-end
subdivision.
So
this
is
a
map
of
the
entire
subdivision.
Don't
quote
the
subdivision
on
this?
K
This
may
have
changed
some.
The
red
is
condos,
the
kind
of
orange
color
is
townhouses
and
then
the
yellow
is
single-family
anywhere
from
the
condos
being
$300,000
all
the
way
to
the
single-family
up
to
$900,000
and
the
bottom
left
corner
with
a
purple
there.
That's
actually
that
row
of
purple
is
Habitat
for
Humanity
there'll,
be
eight
lots
with
duplexes,
and
then
our
twenty-six,
tiny
houses
will
be
right
next
to
that.
So
basically,
we'll
have
26
homeless
veterans
living
on
purpose
next
to
a
high-end
subdivision.
K
In
long
run,
it's
the
only
place
in
the
country
that
I
know
this
is
happening,
and
this
is
kind
of
a
close-up
view
of
what
that
will
look
like.
So
basically,
you've
got
our
community
center
in
the
middle,
and
then
the
houses
go
all
the
way
around
again.
The
idea
is
to
have
these
little
cul
de
sacs
it'll
actually
be
fire
pit
type
areas,
and
things
like
that
to
build
a
sense
of
community
with
the
veterans,
parking
and
then
on.
The
left
is
where
the
Habitat
homes
will
go.
The
developers
hms
development.
K
They
are
the
developer,
not
only
wants
to
have
amazing
amenities,
so
you
can
see
the
blue
towards
the
bottom.
There's
a
you
know,
tennis
court
things
like
that
world-class
pool
all
those
sorts
of
things
for
the
high-end
subdivision.
The
developer
really
feels
like
going
forward.
One
of
the
amenities
and
every
subdivision
should
be
compassion
and
so
he's
putting
his
money
where
his
mouth
is
and
that
land
will
be
donated
to
us
before
we
build
our
houses,
he's
going
to
put
in
all
the
sewer
water
and
electric
infrastructure,
it's
about
a
three
million
dollar
donation.
K
So
briefly,
my
time
is
up.
So
let
me
just
briefly
just
talk
through
some
of
the
things
that
I
know
we
we
talked
about
in
terms
of
what
are
the
issues:
there's
no
magic
formula.
We've
had
over
3000
other
cities
reach
out
to
us
and
say:
hey,
we
love
what
you're
doing
in
Kansas
City
come
to
our
town
and
do
that
every
town
is
very
different.
It's
really
just
the
will
to
do
it
and
some
creativity
truthfully,
okay
and
that's
what
we
found
so
a
lot
of
places.
It's
mixed-use
development
in
Longmont.
K
Actually,
the
area
is
zoned,
so
its
zoning,
that's
really
the
issue,
the
the
code,
compliance
there's,
usually
no
variance
on
code
compliance.
We
meet,
you
know
in
infrastructure.
You
know
we
have
trades
that
come
in
and
do
the
electric
and
all
that
kind
of
stuff,
but
in
Longmont
it's
a
mixed-use,
employment
or
multifamily.
So
in
some
areas,
they're
treating
us
like
multifamily
and
other
places,
they're
treating
us
like
single-family
homes
and
so
they're,
just
being
very
creative
in
terms
of
long
Mott
and
how
they're
doing
it
they're
also
expediting
through
the
process.
K
So
this
subdivision
would
probably
take
somewhere
between
three
and
four
years
to
be
approved
with
us
being
attached
to
that.
The
city
of
Longmont
is
expediting.
The
approval
process
for
this
it'll
probably
be
about
eighteen
months
from
start
to
end,
so
the
developer
gets
to
build
houses
sooner.
The
city
gets
to
solve
their
veteran
homeless
problem
and
we
get
land,
sewer,
water
and
electric
to
be
able
to
to
house
homeless
veterans.
B
K
They're
they're
all
transitional,
it's
rent-free,
so
the
veterans
just
stay
for
a
period
of
time
get
the
help
they
need.
We,
we
don't
reinvent
any
services,
so
we
partner
with
other
organizations
that
already
provide
service
civilian
if
necessary,
if
they
don't
aren't
eligible
for
veteran
services
or
other
veteran
services,
and
then
so
they
come
into
our
house,
our
houses.
K
They
stay
for
a
period
of
time
until
they
till
we
feel
like
they
can
transition
to
the
next
phase,
whatever
that
is,
we
teach
them
how
to
cook
and
how
to
clean
and
how
to
budget
all
of
those
things
make
sure
they
get
to
their
PTSD
counseling.
All
that,
and
once
they
get
to
a
certain
point,
then
they
can
transition
out.
We
actually
had
a
veteran
go
from
homelessness.
She
was
sleeping
in
her
car
hotels.
Things
like
that.
She
came
to
our
village
stayed
about
eighteen
months.
K
K
Terms
of
stay,
yeah,
yeah
two
years
is
really
one.
We
believe
we
aren't
doing
our
job
if
we
can
get
if
it
takes
longer
than
that.
The
second
piece
is:
if
they
are
eligible
for
VA
services,
they
get
to
maintain
their
homeless
status
during
that
time,
so
the
VA
considers
them
still
homeless,
as
long
as
it's
less
than
two
years
in
a
day.
K
So
when
they're
done
with
our
program
and
now
they're
better
than
they
can
transition
to
programs
where
the
VA
will
pay
for
an
apartment
or
something
like
that
as
a
homeless
person,
so
now
all
of
a
sudden,
they're
they're
well-off
and
they
can
transition.
We
started
with
five
percent
employment
when
we
first
housed
our
first
pets
and
we're
at
ninety
five
percent
employment.
So
we
also,
we
do
lots
of
things,
including
getting
jobs
for
our
vets
and
making
sure
that
they're
stable.
Yes,.
F
K
Story
on
a
Navy,
reservist
I've
always
been
in
the
reserves.
If
I
had
not
deployed
when
I
did
and
let's
say,
I
hadn't
served
in
the
Navy
up
until
six
years
as
a
reservist
one
weekend
a
month
two
weeks
a
year,
let's
say
I
did
five
and
a
half
years
and
something
happened.
Civilian
side
or
military
side
I
got
injured.
I
would
not
be
considered
a
veteran.
Even
though
I
served
five
years
in
the
reserves.
Six
years
is
the
cutoff
we
had
a
vet
would
be
one
example
like.
K
So
then,
if
I
went
to
the
program
like
this,
that
said,
you
must
be
a
veteran
and
eligible
prove
it
sorry.
We
can't
help
you
go
someplace
else
right.
The
idea
was
to
say
yes
to
vets.
We
had
a
vet
marine
three
times.
Dui
got
kicked
out
of
the
Marine
Corps
with
a
dishonorable
discharge,
he's
a
four-time
combat
tour
vet
three
times
in
Afghanistan,
one
time
in
Iraq,
so
he's
self-medicating
his
PTSD
he's
not
eligible
for
veteran
services
because
because
of
the
so
so
that's
why
we've
decided
that
we're
just
not
going
to
do
that.
K
D
K
One
of
the
things
we
found
is
that
one
thing
I
didn't
mention
is
that
this
plot
of
land
at
forty
thousand
dollars,
we
had
it
really
bold
to
this
area
of
land
and
increase
the
property
value
to
about
1.5
million
right
now,
so
we're
sort
of
changing
the
narrative
around
homelessness.
That's
part
of
it
is
that
there's
sort
of
a
value
in
single
single
homes,
right
single
family
homes,
we'll
call
them
and
so
having
that
spacing
allows
one
the
veteran
to
have
their
own
space
and
two.
K
D
K
Right
so
bad
and
I
know
things
may
be
slightly
different
here
so
but
that's
where
so
for
us-
and
we
also
can
build
these
things,
retail
would
be
I
think
you
would
kind
of
mentioned.
You
know
retail
might
be
sixty
to
eighty
thousand
dollars
on
these
with
volunteers
and
donated
material.
We
can.
We
can
build
one
of
these
houses
in
Longmont
and
house
a
vet
for
an
entire
year
for
$35,000,
so
it's
a
whole
lot
cheaper
to
do
it
that
way.
Yeah.
B
So
what
we'll
do
now
is
those
chairs
that
I
moved
back
out,
let's
go
ahead
and
I
think
instead
of
creating
a
full
circle
here,
let's
just
do
the
semicircle
kind
of,
as
it
was
again
and
we'll
put
those
chairs
back.
I
have
six
people
who've
signed
up
and
giving
many
names,
I
think
six
or
seven
to
speak.
That
doesn't
mean
if
you
didn't
sign
up,
then
you
can't
raise
your
hand
and
engage
in
this
discussion.
C
B
H
L
N
B
L
B
Couple
of
couple
of
things
that
we'll
try
to
see
how
this
works
I
would
like
to
use
the
microphones
kind
of
as
the
Talking
Stick.
So
if
you
have
it
feel
free
to
talk,
if
you
signed
up
in
general,
we
have
a
three
minute
time
limit
per
individual
I.
Don't
think
anybody
pooled
time,
so
that's
just
what
it'll
be
and
you'll
hear
a
beep
Coryell
keep
us
on
time.
B
So
if
you
have
something
try
to
keep
in
mind
a
three
minute
limit
on
that
and
and
we'll
go
through
as
I
said
these
first
six
here
and
then
I
know
some
of
you
took
papers
but
didn't
necessarily
fill
the
mouth
thinking
you
might
want
to
speak
or
you
might
not.
If
you
decide
to
that's
great
just,
please
leave
them
with
me
because
it's
just
helpful
for
us
to
know
who
spoke
and
what
your
perspective
was
and
what's
going
on,
it
helps
us
track.
Okay,
let
me
yeah,
you
got
actually
you
go
ahead.
D
The
second
thing
is
is
that
there
are
business
owners
that
are
here
as
well
and
that
we're
not
here
to
Center
businesses
or
what
you
want
to
achieve
in
this
community,
we're
here
to
listen
to
what
people
want
to
put
forth
for
housing
as
housing
options
or
expressing
of
your
own
opinions
about
tiny
houses
along
it.
What
does
that
make
sense?.
O
Thank
you,
I'm
Byron,
Fears,
owner
of
simplicity,
tiny
homes,
Alliance
also
on
the
board
of
directors,
the
tiny
home
Industry
Association,
which
is
trying
to
help
create
regulations
in
the
realm
of
tiny
home
building,
I'm
very
excited
about
Boulder
of
entertaining
tiny
homes.
I'm,
not
excited
that
they're
shooting
themselves
in
the
foot
for
attainable
housing
by
not
allowing
them
being
a
part
of
me
not
allowing
them
to
be
on
wheels.
I
think
Boulder
needs
to
take
a
look
at
this.
A
little
more
and
become
more
educated
about
the
on
wheels
portion.
O
I've
got
a
stronger
foundation,
is
you're
gonna
get
especially
a
few
deals.
Bentonite
soil
around
the
mention
metro
area.
Our
house
isn't
gonna
shift.
Foundations
are
going
to
hold
up
so
I'd
like
to
really
urge
her
to
consider
the
on
wheels
process.
I
did
testify
at
the
council
meeting
about
a
month
and
a
half
ago
and
helped
convince
them
that
building
in
a
factory
or
at
a
building
facility
like
ours
and
Lyons
with
a
third
party
inspector
is
permissible.
O
If
you
put
on
foundation
here,
which
I
felt
was
a
major
movement
on
boulders
part
to
go
there.
Instead
of
just
foundation
built
on
site
benefits
of
being
on
wheels,
one
is
attained
ability
by
placing
them
on
foundations.
What
you're
creating
is
a
situation
where
someone's
going
to
be
having
to
put
an
extra
fifty
to
seventy
thousand
dollars,
possibly
into
the
foundation.
It's
not
going
to
be
an
attainable
home.
It's
going
to
be
a
rental
home.
O
If
you
had
tiny
homes
on
wheels,
you
can
move
that
home
into
the
backyard
and
it
could
be
someone
else's
home,
and
so
it
creates
a
whole
nother
living
situation,
which
I
think
is
in
more
alignment
with
what
Boulder
says
there
about
I
lived
in
Boulder
back
in
the
70s.
Neither
us
gone
for
a
while,
so
I
kind
of
have
a
little
bit
of
a
finger
on
the
pulse
of
what
Poehler
says
there
about,
rather
than
what
they
are
about,
I'd
like
to
see
them
be
more
in
alignment.
O
Let's
see
old,
green
way
and
really
try
and
help
the
lower
class
people
lower-income
people
not
lower
class
people,
also
like
to
get
you
to
entertain
the
idea
of
attainable
rather
than
affordable
housing.
It's
a
whole
nother
concept.
We
all
know
how
housing
is
in
Colorado.
Now
in
the
Front
Range
is
insane.
You
can't
buy
a
house
unless
you're
making
$200,000,
maybe
$150,000
a
year
for
the
most
part,
and
the
attainability
is
very
important.
O
There's
so
much
I'd
like
to
share
and
I'm
gonna
try
and
just
go
over
it
real
quickly,
something
that
is
really
amazing
to
me
when
we
first
started
building
houses,
we
are
one
of
the
early
builders
in
the
country
back
when
we
started
building
there
might
have
been
10
or
15
serious
builders
in
the
whole
country.
Now,
there's
500
people
that
say
they're
builders,
Iranians
I,
debate
that
but
there's
those
who
say
they
are.
If
you
saw
some
of
the
quality,
you
would
understand
part
of
why
we're
trying
to
develop
standards.
O
O
Okay.
Okay,
let
me
just
finish
this
one
statement
real
fast,
extremely
fast
I'm,
not
gonna,
pull
a
presidential
debate
one
anyway,
r10,
the
main
demographic
of
interests
are
baby
boomers.
We've
come
to
a
point
where
the
majority
of
our
tiny
home
owners
that
we've
built
for
our
women,
single
women
and
probably
almost
half
of
those
are
retired.
O
C
Thank
you
and
welcome.
I
just
have
I
just
have
a
couple
of
little
questions.
The
I
don't
know
very
much
about
this
and
I
don't
have
a
horse
in
the
race.
So
these
are
just
questions.
I
have
can
the
homes
on
wheels?
What
do
you
do
about
things
like
gas
and
electricity
and
water
and
sewage
that
can
that
hook
up
to
structure
they
self-contained
most.
O
Certainly
and
I'm
glad
you
asked
that
I
was
very
instrumental
in
helping
Lions
develop
their
Adu
laws
for
tiny
homes
on
wheels.
They
had
the
wisdom
of
waiving
any
tap
fees.
You
can't
afford
to
have
a
35
or
$60,000
tap
fee
for
a
tiny
home
on
wheels.
People
who
live
in
tiny
homes
typically
live
a
much
more
sustainable
lifestyle.
They
are
not
going
to
be
using
as
much
electricity
as
much
water
they're
not
going
to
have
as
much
impact
on
the
sewers
we
hook
up.
O
Just
like
any
house,
we
have
a
breaker
box
where
you
could
go
solar.
If
you
want
to,
we
have
a
sewer
line
that
goes
out
and
go
into
how
to
hook
up
to
a
sewer
line.
Our
hookups
are
electrical
could
be
as
simple
as
a
heavy-duty
RV
cord
plugged
into
an
outlet
at
a
breaker
box.
You
know
it's
just
like
a
regular
house.
It's
just
a
different
dimension.
Thank.
O
That
looks
like
a
stone
cottage
on
a
foundation.
We
skirted
it
with
the
same
faux
stone
on
the
bottom
of
it,
and
construction
dudes
got
was
in
a
really
heavy
house.
Are
you
gonna
pull
it?
They
thought
it
was
real
stone
and
it
looks
like
a
classic
old
english
stone
cottage.
So
you
make
it
we
make
them
look.
We
can
build
them
to
look
like
the
house
that
they're
behind,
where
you
can
build
in
a
really
classy
looking.
We
can
build
them
basic.
Q
Hi
there
everybody,
my
name,
is
Josh
I'm,
a
boulder
native
and
an
artist
here
in
Boulder
I'd
like
to
just
talk
a
little
bit
about
what
it's
like
to
be
a
very
low-income
artist
and
try
to
afford
housing
here
in
Boulder.
I
have
been
searching
for
a
house
to
buy
for
about
six
years
right
when
the
boom
kind
of
happened,
and
it's
been
a
very
frustrating
and
and
emotional
experience.
Q
Q
So
a
very
real
option
is
tiny
houses
and
to
have
you
know,
city
officials
say
that
it's
not
a
feasible
thing,
because
they
don't
know
what
it's
about
or
why
somebody
wants
to
live
in,
or
they
think
it
looks
trashy
or
whatever.
The
reason
is.
Is
it
feels
like
a
slap
in
a
face
to
a
group
of
people
who
create
the
culture
here
in
Boulder
a
lot
of
people
love
Boulder
because
of
the
artistic
community
here
and
when
you
continue
to
shut
out
those
people
financially.
Q
Q
B
B
D
B
Note
on
that-
and
this
was
from
talking
to
Dan
Fitzpatrick,
if
anybody's
out
there
building
their
tiny
home,
he
made
a
suggestion,
make
all
panels
that
cover
electrical
plumbing
cetera
removable
so
that
if
it
comes
to
a
place
where
you
need
to
get
inspected,
you
could
you
could
be
inspected
so
just
little
little
tidbits
of
how
to
tiny
home
from
a
guy
who's.
Just
starting
to
learn.
I
see
art,
Laubach,.
R
Thanks
everybody,
my
name
is
art
la
ball
I'm,
the
organizer
of
the
Colorado,
tiny
house
festival
and
the
director
of
the
Colorado
tiniest
Association
and
I'm,
also
a
builder
with
Einstein
tiny
homes
at
a
Brighton,
so
I
want
to
come
off
of
what
Byron
had
mentioned.
So
at
the
festival
we
get
usually
about
20,000
people
out
for
the
weekend
and
of
that
group
of
people
that
come
out
from
all
over
the
world.
R
Actually
I
mean
people
from
Japan
Australia
come
out,
usually
it's
from
the
Front
Range,
but
we
get
people
from
all
over
the
country
and
the
two
largest.
Demographics
are
people
from
25
to
32
and
the
baby
boomers,
and
this
is
not
a
shrinking
market
either.
Every
year
that
we've
polled
and
discussed
hey,
did
you
sell
anything
at
the
festival
or
did
you
did
you
make
a
sale
for
the
professional
builders
that
number
has
risen
every
year
last
year
we
had
roughly
70
percent
of
the
people
who
showed
a
structure
made
a
sale
from
it.
R
So
the
the
fact
is
is
that
there's
a
large
number
of
people
who
are
buying
these
or
building
them
themselves
and
I
think
that
there
are.
There
are
two
sides
of
this
there's
the
homeowner,
in
whatever
County
tiny
homes
benefit
people
on
both
both
sides
of
the
coin.
A
lot
of
people
don't
wanna
talk
about
rental
income
for
people
who
are
already
wealthy,
but
it
is
a
fact.
R
R
And
then
the
person
who
can
afford
that
tiny
home
has
their
own
home
granted
they're
renting
space,
and
this
is
something
I
know
a
lot
about,
because
I
own
property
that
I
rent
space
to
people
who
live
in
tiny
homes.
So
it's
not
compliant
so
we'll
just
leave
it
at
that,
but
it's
in
a
place
where
it's
very
rural-
and
nobody
cares
so
so
I
think
that
you
know
I.
There
are
a
lot
of
concerns
from
communities.
You
know
they
say:
I
don't
want
to
be
trashy
right.
R
They
don't
they
don't
want
to
be
trashy
or
they're
concerned
about
their
property
values,
people
that
are
concerned
about
their
property
values,
don't
understand
how
properties
are
valued.
So
80
is
on
foundation.
Do
nothing
but
add
the
value
to
a
property
and
anything
that
can
be
moved
in
our
wheels
can
be
moved
out.
So.
B
Some
thanks
I
appreciate
that
and
sorry
about
the
name.
No
picture
of
me.
I
do
think
that
this
is
one
of
the
things
that
we'll
be
talking
about
is
how
ad
use
on
wheels
allow
the
value
to
move
with
the
owner
and
I
think
that's
a
huge,
a
huge
benefit
that
we
really
have
to
think
about
when
we
consider
where
we
limit
to
foundations
or
not.
So
thanks
for
bringing
that
point
up,
Jeremy
yeah.
L
S
My
name's
Jeremy
tiny
house
on
wheels,
like
other
mobile
dwellings,
I
like
to
classify
us
such
as
RVs
for
vans
and
convertible
school
buses,
are
viable
low-cost
solutions
to
offset
affordable
housing
sorge's
also
allowing
the
property
owner
to
host
mobile
dwellers
on
their
private
land.
Well,
diversify
the
community,
as
well
as
boost
the
local
economy
through
into
higher
individual
spending,
because
they're
saving
more
on
rent.
S
It
will
also
reduce
the
amount
of
daily
traffic
coming
into
a
town,
offset
the
carbon
footprint
and
should
limit
the
government's
need
to
fund
or
build
new
infrastructure
to
support
lower-income
earners
restrict
restrictive.
Zoning
is
counterproductive
to
reducing
people's
reliance
on
the
government.
Instead,
governments
should
be
embracing
people
willing
and
able
to
host
these
hard-working
people
who
choose
or
have
to
live
in
tiny
or
mobile
homes.
A
couple
things
I
heard
tonight.
One
of
the
things
was:
why
does
it
have
to
be
fixed?
S
I
didn't
have
never
understood
why
people
feel
it
has
to
be
fixed.
We
are
gonna
use
the
same
exact
utilities
that
a
fixed
home
would
use
they're,
just
not
connected
and
I
feel
like
that
is
comes
down
always
to
a
money
thing.
Why
else
would
it
be
I,
don't
know,
and
then
the
other
one
was
for
tiny
houses
in
RVs.
If,
if
tiny
houses
are
regulated
the
same
as
RVs,
then
why
don't
we
treat
them
the
same?
Why
are
they
being
treated
differently
other
than
from
an
aesthetic
standpoint?
S
I
can
understand,
and
then
there
was
a
question
that
was
raised.
Do
real
people
live
in
them?
There's
an
estimated
1
million
people
in
the
United
States.
Currently
that
live
full-time
in
RVs,
the
city
of
Los
Angeles
has
currently
28
thousand
people
living
on
the
streets
in
their
cars
or
RVs.
So,
yes,
real
people
are
living
and
living
them
and
really
real
people
that
live
in
these
tiny
places.
They
just
need
stability
like
anyone
else,
that's
trying
to
be
a
productive
member
of
society.
S
You
have
to
worry
about
where
your
house
is
gonna,
be
every
night
or
if
it's
safe
on
the
road
or
if
some
neighbor
is
gonna,
call
the
cops
on
you.
That's
a
stress
that
you
just
don't
need
to
try
to
get
ahead
financially,
so
I
guess
that's
pretty
much
what
I
have
and
then
just
one
real,
quick
one.
A
lot
of
people
that
work
here
this
is
in
the
service
industry
are
commuting
from
Boulder
or
sorry
from
Longmont
la
via
Erie,
just
real
rough
calculation.
S
That's
approximately
600
miles
a
month
that
they
are
going
to
travel
just
to
work,
and
you
know
we
see
the
fog
on
the
Front
Range
all
the
time.
Now,
that's
if
we
could
reduce
even
a
hundred
people
from
having
the
commute
into
the
town
six
600,000
miles
the
a
month
of
travel
I
mean
that's
tons
of
gasoline
offs
and
again,
if
you
get
more
people
that
are
lower
income
earners
in
the
community,
saving
on
rent,
they
will
spend
their
money
on
goods
and
services
that
are
gonna
benefit.
G
T
When
2008
happens
and
the
financial
crisis
happened,
people
are
like
how
can
I
recession-proof
my
life?
How
can
I
prevent
this
from
happening
to
me
and
my
family
in
the
future
and
with
Jay
Shafer
and
all
the
things
that
he
did
in
2008
as
far
as
like
moving
movement?
And
it's
not
a
new
concept
is
tiny.
L
U
Again,
I
just
want
to
address
a
couple
things.
I
got
the
note
so
my
hands
here,
my
tiny
house
on
wheels
is
eight
and
a
half
feet
by
13
and
a
half
feet
by
26
feet
and
I
own.
It
I'm
very
excited
about
that.
I
built
it
three
years
ago,
with
my
father
after
I
had
a
very,
very
difficult
time.
Coming
back
from
two
deployments
and
three
campaigns
in
Iraq
and
now
I'm
a
homeowner,
a
homeowner
and
I've
really
rebuilt.
U
My
life
I
really
need
to
tell
everyone
that
that
my
tiny
house
on
wheels
has
reach
Ainge
everything
about
my
life,
I'm
able
to
use
my
GI
Bill
and
use
it
well
and
become
an
active
part
of
the
community
and
I'm
gonna.
Keep
this
short
but
I'm
an
activist
now
and
it's
not
for
the
tiny
house
movement,
it's
for
our
waterways
and
the
tiny
house
on
wheels
in
the
tiny
house
on
movement.
U
Movement
has
really
enabled
me
to
come
back
from
a
car
repossession
getting
kicked
out
of
my
apartment
because
I
couldn't
live
in
it
and
and
now
I'm
actually
becoming
a
real
active
community
member.
So
in
the
future,
I'm
gonna
look
for
places
to
live
after
I,
get
out
a
UCCS
with
probably
a
dual
degree
in
history
and
geology
and
right
now
it's
looking
like
lions
will
be
a
really
good
place,
but
until
then
I
am
a
real
tiny
home
owner
and
liver.
U
V
Am
just
so
excited
to
be
here,
I
kind
of
geeked
out
on
tiny
house
nation
recently
and
so,
but
I'm
just
coming
from
an
experiential
space,
I
used
to
live
in
Dana,
Point
California
at
a
five-bedroom
house
and
I.
V
My
husband
was
in
the
mortgage
industry
in
2008
and
we
almost
lost
everything
left
in
2012
traveled
for
seven
years
lived
in
rooms
lived
in
community,
lived
in
different
spaces
and
had
to
get
rid
of
everything.
So
every
time
I
moved.
It
was
me
my
dog
in
the
car,
and
that
was
it
so
I'm
49
years
old
I
had
to
convert
my
life
and
it
is
a
way
of
life.
90%
of
everything
that
people
buy
will
end
up
in
the
trash
within
six
months.
Our
culture
have
must
shift.
V
V
Land
needs
to
be
provided,
like
you,
guys,
are
doing
not
just
veterans,
but
for
everybody,
for
artists,
for
people
who
are
really
trying
to
survive
and
live,
and
the
baby
boomers
like
I,
don't
have
like
retirement
or
any
of
that
I'm
just
trying
to
like
get
ahead
and
I'm
an
entrepreneur,
who's
very
smart.
So
it's
it's
really
like
a
global
situation
and
the
resources
should
be
put
into
this
for
Humanity
and
not
necessarily
what
are
people
doing
with
big
houses.
V
U
There
you
go
I
added
the
sugar
of
my
tiny
house
to
the
agenda
up
here.
So
that's
my
tiny
house
on
wheels
and
if
you
look
behind
it
real
quick,
it's
just
a
little
bit
to
the
right
of
my
house.
You
can
see
a
traditional-style
house.
There
was
a
hundred
houses
that
are
conventional
houses
in
my
neighborhood
and
not
one
person
has
complained
about
my
presence
and
I
haven't
brought
home,
brought
down
anyone's
home
value
and
houses
have
bought
and
sold
around.
My
my
house
and
they've
all
been
really
good.
W
I
wanted
to
just
add
a
couple
thoughts
as
a
bolder
homeowner
I'm.
Sorry,
my
name
is
Kirsten
Oak,
Fritz
and
I
live
in
North
Boulder
and
buy
some
grace
of
God
I
managed
to
get
a
house
here,
but
I
really
can't
afford.
But
it
still
has
my
name
on
it
for
the
moment
and
we
got
all
my
rooms
rented
out
and
my
taxes
have
gone
up.
25
percent.
W
There
is
no
reason
why
I
can't
get
someone
to
move
in
there
and
put
in
a
tiny
home
and
we
can
build
a
pad
and
we
can
connect
it
to
the
water
and
the
sewer
and
put
electric
in
and
make
it
totally
legit
like
if
they
were
in
a
trailer
park,
and
you
know
help
me
pay
for
this
enormous
house
that
you
know
because
I
don't
I
mean
I'm.
Like
my
kids
are
gone,
you
know
like
I.
W
Don't
need
to
have
a
lot
so
I
don't
mind,
sharing
it,
because
I've
always
had
people
around
so
I,
don't
mind
having
community
space
and
I,
don't
mind
having
somebody
in
my
yard
and
I
want
somebody
to
be
able
to
live
and
be
able
to
have
a
space
that
they
can
call
theirs.
You
know,
cuz
I
know
what
that
feels.
Like
I
lived
in
a
school
bus
for
eight
years
when
I
was
in
my
20s
and
it
was
easier.
W
But
but
you
know
it's
just
it's
just
ridiculous
and
guess
what
we
keep
reproducing,
and
that
means
there's
going
to
be
more
people
and
more
people
and
more
people.
And
it's
grotesque
that
there's
4,200
square
foot
houses
that
live.
They
have
four
people
in
them.
It's
just
grotesque
and
it's
a
sign
of
our
culture,
which
is
really
grotesque
right
now,
with
the
money
so
I
am
advocating
for
tiny
homes,
because
one
it
can
help
people
like
me.
W
You
know
middle-aged,
ladies,
that
are
just
trying
to
get
by
because
no,
we
don't
have
retirements,
you
know
and
we
still
have
grown
children
that
need
our
financial
support,
even
because
they
can't
afford
so
so
you
know
and
like
I
could
put
my
kid
out
in
the
tiny
home,
so
I
don't
have
to
live
with
them
and
pick
up
after
a
many
frickin
more.
You
know
so
there's
options
and
we
need
to
have
options.
Thank
you.
Thank.
X
So
I'm
Ralph,
RIT
and
Lafayette.
We
have
the
same
problem.
You
have
I'm
here
because
I
work
that
correspond
with
Megan
at
Boulder,
County
housing
and
connecting
with
nog
I
got
really
angry.
I
was
trying
to
get
a
house
for
a
past
mayor
of
Lafayette
children
and
grandchildren
that
couldn't
live
in
the
area.
A
flipper
beat
me
to
a
condo
and
so
I
got
so
mad
I
bought
a
house
and
I
rent
it
to
them
well
under
market
value
and
I'm.
X
Here
to
tell
you
that
I
think
there's
there's
there's
three
or
four
points
that
that
would
really
help
at
least
that
I've
gotten
from
this
there's
no
silver
bullet
to
the
housing
piece.
We
are
short,
so
many
houses.
We
need
everything
we
can
get
density
needs
to
increase,
I,
think
the
rural
parts
where
you've
got
some
land
mark
great
program,
the
wrapped
services,
absolutely
essential,
tiny
homes,
great
where
you
put
them
for
transitional
service,
because
it's
about
well-being,
it
isn't
just
about
home.
You
brought
that
point
out.
X
It's
about
your
well-being
and
about
being
able
to
move
into
a
next
piece
and
I
think
coupling
tiny
homes,
the
right
in
the
right
atmosphere
where
you've
got
some
space
form.
You've
got
some
flexibility,
put
some
density
in
so
that
you
can
get
some
services
for
the
people
that
have
served
us
both
past
and
present
and
and
and
where
I
come
to
that
I
think
you
brought
up.
X
Was
you
know
we
got
about
eight
or
nine
things
here
to
work
and
I'm
working
on
the
deal
off
yet
to
be
able
to
say
density
is
not
a
four-letter
word.
We
can
use
it.
We
can
use
it
profitably
and
I'm
going
to
be
meeting
with
MIT
McKenzie
because
to
bring
another
economic
model
about
when
you're
in
a
high
growth
mode
like
we
are,
you
can
actually
build
in
and
and
rent
under
market
value,
because
things
appreciate
so
well.
W
Our
tiny
homes,
legal
in
mobile
home
parks,
see
okay,
but
see
that
that's
so
ridiculous.
There
should
be
able
to
be
mobile.
You
know
tiny
homes
on
wheels.
It's
the
same
thing
right,
I
thought
that
that
that
was
true
and
I
just
wanted
to
bring
that
up,
because
I
mean
like
there's
the
Thistle
program
that
has
the
mobile
home
park
over
here
on
26
fabulous
program.
People
are
able
to
die
there
and
it's
okay.
You
know
they
can
survive.
W
B
Curr
tonight,
I'm
gonna
ask
you
to
just
pause
for
a
second
I,
just
wanted
to
say
one
thing:
it
appears
that
the
majority
of
voices
that
we
have
here
tonight
are
really
pumped
up
and
really
pro
tiny-home
and
I
just
want
to
make
a
little
bit
of
space,
because
this
is
a
public
listening
session
and
I
just
want
to
say
that
if
there
are
concerns
about
tiny
homes,
these
are
also
the
things
that
we
want
to
hear
and
we
may
get.
No
I
may
get
no
takers
on
that.
B
But,
but
that's
also,
why
we're
here
and-
and
it's
not
only
to
hear
the
naysayers,
but
it's
also
to
understand
those
concerns
and
then
see
how
we
can
adapt
the
thoughts
that
we
have
to
make
a
reality
come
true.
So
I
just
want
to
open
that
space
up,
make
sure
that
everybody's
comfortable
and
feels
good
about
saying.
Well
what
about
this-
or
this
doesn't
seem
like
it's
going
to
work.
J
One
question
I
have
about
tiny
homes
on
wheels.
Is
that
what
I've
seen
is
people
have
to
buy
big
transport
pickups
to
move
them
around,
so
I
would
be
wondering
how
people
solve
that
issue
and
I
mean
let's
face
it.
Most
people
put
them
on
wheels
to
avoid
the
prying
eyes
of
city
officials,
because
they're
so
well.
What's
the
purpose
of
having
them,
automobiles
I,
understand
the
cost
of
foundation,
but
there's
also
a
cost
of
building
them
on
that.
B
U
A
good
question
and
actually
I
was
on
HGTV
I
was
on
that
tiny
house,
big
living
and
the
producers
said
that
this
was
the
most
insane
move
they
had
ever
seen.
So
to
answer
your
question,
and
it's
just
really
justification
really.
If
I
decide
to
move
somewhere,
I'm
gonna
have
to
be
either
first
or
last
month's
rent
or
I'm
gonna
have
to
pay
closing
costs
on
a
house.
So
if
I
ever
choose
to
move
somewhere,
then
what
I'll
do
is
professionally
insured.
U
Have
a
professional
mover
moving
my
house
even
though
I
could
probably
rent
a
u-haul
and
because
it's
it's
eight
and
a
half
feet
wide
by
a
thirteen
and
a
half
feet
tall,
all
of
our
drivers
license
would
be
able
to
allow
to
drive
it.
I
don't
want
to
it's
me,
my
dad
built
it
so
I'm
willing
to
pay
about.
You
know.
B
O
I,
do
the
question
about
transportation.
One
of
the
first
I
talk
to
a
lot
of
people
about
tiny
homes.
Cuz.
They
come
to
see
me
constantly
one
of
the
first
questions
they
ask
after
they
said.
Where
can
I
put?
It
is
what
I
have
to
have
to
pull
it
and
I
go
nothing.
There
are
many
professional
companies
had
tow
tiny
homes
and
there's
no
reason
to
have
a
sixty
to
eighty
thousand
dollar
truck,
just
full,
tiny
home
every
once
tomorrow.
O
Why
on
wheels
job
security
is
not
what
it
was
when
you
and
I
had
the
pleasure
of
growing
up
a
lot
of
people
have
to
move
because
of
jobs.
It's
really
nice
to
have
your
home
that
you
can
take
with
you.
Instead
of
going
and
finding
a
box
that
you're
gonna
rent
and
try
and
make
it
your
home
or
that
you're
gonna
buy,
you
know
people
in
the
computer
industry
working
in
Seattle
for
three
years
older
for
three
years.
O
Q
Of
the
big
reasons
that
I
would
prefer
to
have,
my
house
on
wheels
is
because
I
can't
afford
$500,000
worth
of
lands
here
and
I
can
$500,000
worth
of
land
here
in
Boulder
I'm
happy
to
pay
rent
somebody
who's
willing
to.
Let
me
put
my
tiny
house
on
there
on
their
land,
and
you
know
when
it's
time
for
me
to
move
along,
because
either
I'm
ready
or
they're
ready
or
whatever
the
case
is
I'm
able
to
do
that
and
move
to
the
next
place.
Q
D
Yeah
and
I'd
like
to
add
that
I
think
you
brought
up
a
really
good
point
about
job
stability
but
I.
Also
in
your
demographic
of
the
retiring
boomer
as
well,
you
know,
there's
a
how
many
of
us
know:
individuals
who
are
wealthy
that
have
two
homes
that
might
be
just
them
and
their
spouse
and
they're
flying
back
and
forth
from
two
homes.
D
I
know
a
lot
of
people
that
spend
six
months
in
one
part
of
this
country
and
then
six
months
in
another
part
of
this
country
and
their
house
sits
empty
and
their
utilities
turned
off
during
that
other
time.
I
personally
would
love
to
see
a
tiny
house
who's,
renting
a
backyard
somewhere
and
then
traveling
down
to
their
warm
weather
with
their
instead
of
occupying
a
you
know,
a
2,000
3,000
square
foot
house
only
half
the
year.
A
I
just
wanted
to
give
our
briefly
our
experience
with
tiny
homes.
My
wife
and
I
are
the
lucky
ones,
the
privileged
ones
we
own
a
detached
single-family
house
in
Boulder,
but
a
young
woman
who
happens
to
be
a
special
ed
teacher,
approached
us
and
said
I'm
looking
for
a
place
to
put
a
tiny
home.
Do
you
know
of
any
place,
and
we
said
well,
you
know
we
have
a
backyard,
and
so
she
bought
one
from
a
place
in
Parker
or
something,
and
she
spent
about
him
on.
A
She
found
a
different
situation
elsewhere
in
this
city
and
to
my
knowledge,
she
is
still
there
with
her
tiny
home.
So
the
point
is
that
by
making
them
illegal,
we're
not
actually
getting
rid
of
them
were
forcing
people
into
hiding
like
this
gentleman
here
and
we're
imposing
additional
costs
on
them,
because
she
had
to
hire
the
f-350
to
come
out
again
and
move
it
and
it's
an
additional
stressor.
So
we
felt
terrible
for
her.
We,
we
had
warned
her
that
it
was
illegal
and
she
wanted
to
she.
A
A
X
You
need
again
please
it's
Ralph
Fred,
fr
ID.
My
concern
is
use
tiny
homes
for
the
right
reason
in
the
right
place
to
serve
the
right
purpose.
We
have
many
many
people
that
need
housing
and
and
we're
not
going
to
find
one
solution.
That's
going
to
fit
everything
and
one
of
the
things
that
I
come
up
against.
All
the
time
is
people
that
get
a
really
the
hair
raises
up
on
the
back
of
their
neck.
X
When
you
start
to
talk
about
density,
you
start
to
talk
about
affordability
and
we
need
to
use
tiny
homes
in
a
way
that
promotes
the
well-being
like
mark
is
doing
here,
so
that
everybody
gets
to
see
the
the
positive
aspect
of
this,
and
we
don't
get
the
fear.
You
know
uncertainty
and
doubt
going
and
then
complement
that
with
other
forms
of
housing
that
that
meet
other
other
needs.
X
B
B
Z
Good
evening
ml
Robles,
so
it
seems
to
me
that
there
are
two
parts
right.
So
there's
the
people
who
are
investing
in
owning
a
home
right,
so
the
tiny
home
owner
and
there're
the
people
who
have
who
have
land-
and
it
seems
like
in
the
city
right
there's
two
things
that
need
to
happen.
One
is
a
make
tiny
houses
on
wheels,
legal
but
B,
maybe
start
providing
a
way
to
create
land
leases
so
that
it
can
be
kind
of
a
no-brainer
right.
Z
There
is
right
now
a
City
Council
is
trying
to
stop
a
to
use
from
being
sold
separately
from
the
main
house
or
the
land
lease
concept
which
happens
in
commercial.
It
happens
in
affordable
housing
right
condos,
that's
all
land
lease.
So
if
people
can't
afford
land
that
is
a
big
deterrent,
let's
look
into
the
idea
of
a
land
lease
as
an
opportunity
to
enable
people
to
have
the
security
of
bringing
their
home
into
properties
in
Boulder
and
I.
Z
U
Do
have
one
concern
and
it's
more
not
about
affordability.
One
thing
we
keep
talking
about
is:
affordability,
affordability,
affordability,
affordability.
However,
this
is
also
for
wealthy
people.
90
houses
can
also
be
for
very,
very
wealthy
people
that
have
a
different
style
of
living
and
what
it
really
amounts
to
is
freedom.
So,
yes,
there
is
the
affordability
aspect
in
giving
more
freedom
to
people
that
might
not
already
be
able
to
afford
it,
but
there's
also
the
aspect
that
there
might
be
attorneys
out
there
that
lead
a
very
different
lifestyle.
U
D
My
two
favorite
people,
I
always
talked
about
their
tiny
house
dwellers
Matthew
McConaughey
lived
in
his
air
stream
and
then
tiny
house
for,
like
ten
years
before
he
got
married
to
his
wife
now
and
popped
up.
Three
babies
and
the
CEO
of
Zappos
lives
in
Las
Vegas
in
a
tiny
house,
and
exactly
so
there's
a
lot
of
brilliant
uses
and,
as
my
green
friends
know
in
this
community,
is
that,
as
a
personal
just
comment
to
this,
is
that
her
one
you
mentioned?
People
are
dying
and
hurting,
but
we
also
have
environmental
concerns.
D
We
cannot
continue
to
build
houses
and
not
cohabitate
together
and
create
community
together
anymore.
So
for
me,
tiny
houses
is
also
a
very
big
path
towards
us,
getting
greener
and
using
less
resources.
We
just
don't
have
the
resources
to
throw
around
about
it
anymore,
so
there's
a
sense
of
urgency.
P
N
P
Done
Adam
any
time
a
couple
questions
the
rules
for
no
for
fix
foundation,
tiny
homes
that
just
passed
like
last
year
right
yesterday.
Okay,
do
we
have
any
idea
how
many
fixed
foundation
upper
tiny
home
opportunities
there
are
in
Boulder?
Has
anybody
done
that
analysis
to
say
you
know
we
don't
want
wheels
as
of
yesterday,
but
we
do
one
on
one
fix
foundations
and
we
can
potentially
have
X
of
those.
Is
that
anybody.
D
D
H
Sorry
I
just
wanted
to
clarify
real
quickly,
so
the
saturation
only
applies
to
the
RL
zones
so
with
the
rest
of
the
city,
there
are
stones
where
they're
allowed
it
does
not
apply.
We
can
go
back
and
look
at
the
Adu
analysis
that
we
did
and
can
give
you
a
figure
of
how
many
could
potentially
be
built.
It's
basically
how
many
single-family
homes
do
we
have
in
the
city,
because
each
of
those
would
be
potentially
if
it
was
if
it
was
loosened.
Even
more
that's
the
number.
P
P
Devil's
advocate
a
little
bit
I'm,
not
bad.
That
was
advocate,
but
I'm
hearing
a
lot
of.
We
need
to
get
tiny
homes
on
wheels.
It
sounds
like
that's
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
heads
nodding
from
up
from
a
real
estate
planning
perspective
from
a
real
estate
investment
perspective.
I
think
it
doesn't
make
me
nervous,
but
I
think
it
makes
people
nervous
right
when
people
come
to
bold
or
we're
throwing
around
half
a
million
dollar
Lots
find
me
one
they're,
not
there's
no
half
million
dollar
loss
anymore.
P
You
know
they're
there
they're
more
than
that
and
that's
you
know
this
is
so
so
people
spend
a
lot
of
money
on
these
properties
from
all
over
the
place.
Some
live
here,
some
don't
and
I
think
the
on
wheels,
tiny
home
concept
makes
people
nervous.
That's
what
I
think.
So
how
do
we
alleviate
that
fear
right?
How
do
we?
How
do
we
call
that
I?
Don't
have
that
answer
and
I
know
people
say
oh
well,
we
can
make
them
look
great.
We're
gonna,
put
stone
skirts
around
them.
They're,
not
gonna.
P
B
R
R
Basically,
now
you
guys
built
a
240
square
foot,
tiny
homeowner
foundation
that
is
code
compliant
and
so
building
codes
come
from
two
things:
safety
and
basically
the
requirement
for
environmental
impacts
are
values,
and
things
like
that,
you
see
a
lot
of
the
new
building
codes
require
some
in
some
cases
in
certain
jurisdictions
around
the
country.
They
require
external
insulation.
R
You
know
what
it
means,
some
some
things
like
that,
so
in
most
cases,
all
these
homes
that
are
being
built,
they
meet
all
Colorado
code
for
our
value
in
the
foundation
in
this,
in
the
roof
in
the
wall,
and
so
you've
got
basically
two
variances
for
code
compliance.
Now,
some
building
departments
will
say
well
the
toilets
too
close
to
the
shower,
because
that's
obviously
a
part
of
the
IRC
code
as
well.
But
if
you
can
build
a
240
square,
foot
foundation
home
the
280
square,
foot
home
I'm,
building
right
now
is
completely
code
compliant.
R
Those
two
factors
so
I
think
that
one
of
the
major
concerns
from
the
government
side
is
code.
Compliance
and
the
fact
is,
is
they're,
not
they're,
really
not
out
of
compliance,
and
so
there
are
there
are.
There
are
answers
to
every
concern,
I
think
if
you
were
to
say,
hey
it's,
it's
got
to
meet
IRC
code,
I'm,
pretty
sure
that
some
builders
would
be
willing
to
put
it
two
by
six
wall
on
a
trailer,
although
you
might
lose
17
square
feet,
but
that
those
are
the
big
concerns.
R
The
other
major
concern
that
you
were
just
referring
to
about
homeowners,
people
that
spend
a
lot
of
money
on
these
homes
in
general
they're
concerned
about
two
things.
One
of
them
is
outrageous.
They
don't
want
to.
They
don't
want
drugs
moving
into
the
there
there.
It's
true
we've
I've
been
to
meetings.
This
is
a
it's
a
legitimate
concern.
They
don't
want
people
running
a
meth
lab.
R
This
is
this
is
I'm
hearing
someone
tell
me
this
in
another
meeting,
but
when
we
watch
the
news,
the
DEA
is
always
raiding
a
nice
house
in
Boulder
they're,
not
raiding
tiny
homes
and
so
and
then
the
last
point
of
that
is
that
the
is
that,
like
I,
said
before,
the
people
who
are
concerned
about
their
property
values,
don't
understand
how
property
values
are
assessed.
You
know
there
it's
done
geographically
by
a
something
that's
similar
in
in
design
or
size,
so
putting
putting
a
budget
alliums
next
to
a
nice
subdivision
doesn't
affect
the
impact.
R
Does
it
have
a
impact,
the
value
of
that
home?
So
it's
and
in
many
cases
like
where
I
live,
I
then
brighten.
If
I
were
to
throw
a
pole,
barn
in
the
backyard,
my
property
value
sky
rock.
So
there
there
are
a
lot
of
those
concerns
boil
pure
and
simply
down
to
education.
It's
it's!
It's
purely
information.
The
people
do
or
don't
have
or
choose
not
to
believe
or
choose
to
believe
a
different
thing.
D
It's
it's.
You
know,
fears
in
any
project
that
we
do
is
they're
going
to
arise.
I
think
it
comes
down
to
a
will
of
the
people
and
I'm
wondering
if
that's
something
that
you
were
getting
ready
to
say,
even
though
Adam
and
David
are
next
and
I
think
it
does
come
down
to
just
a
will
of
deciding
like
you're
gentlemen
made
it
a
priority
of
putting
it
in
the
subdivision.
AA
So
I'm,
like
member
of
Boulder,
City
Council
I,
had
a
quick
question.
Since
we
have
a
bunch
of
people
who
both
build
and
own,
is
it
a
depreciating
asset?
Because
that's
that's
just
a
question
that
I
honestly
don't
know
and
I'm
really
really
interested
in,
because
to
me
it's
it's
a
home
for
sure,
but
it
gets
lumped
in
sort
of
with
the
RV
type
of
vehicles
and
a
lot
of
sentences.
So
I
just
want
to
hear
from
a
couple
people
about
depreciation.
O
Is
it
a
depreciating
asset,
the
property
that
you
own?
Your
house
does
not
appreciate
it's
the
land
unless
you
have
put
a
really
exceptional
outrageously
cool
house
on
your
property,
it's
the
value
of
the
dirt
that
appreciates
there
is
one
Inspection
Agency,
which
I
will
not
name
that
says
they
inspect
tiny
homes,
which
is
just
BS.
They
recently
had
a
blog
out.
That
said,
tiny
homes
is
an
investment,
have
all
three
shaitaan'
value
if
they
did
not
appreciate
in
value
no.
P
P
U
Know
I
can
speak
to
for
my
house
and
one
of
the
largest
mansions
in
Colorado.
It's
actually
called
a
compound
is
in
my
neighborhood
and
one
other
thing
about
it.
You
know
you
talk
about
people
worried
about
their
home
value,
I've
told
everyone
in
my
neighborhood
what
I'm
doing
and
how
I'm
doing
it
and
how
many
days
I
have
versus
how
many
days
I
spend,
and
they
all
tell
me
you
go
on
with
your
bad
self.
You
do
you
and
the
houses
behind
me.
They
have
not
depreciated
in
value
at
all
so
and
they're.
T
But
if
it's
the
equity
aspect
that
we're
looking
at
to
be
able
to
okay,
if
I
sell,
this
tiny
house
am
I
going
to
get
out
of
it,
what
I,
what
I
put
into
it.
So
in
the
private
sector,
there
are
certainly
some
business
aspects
and
some
things
that
you
can
be
able
to
integrate
into
say
community
style
living
to
be
able
to
add
some
equity
to
that
homeowner.
So
that
way,
okay,
I,
don't
want
to
live
in
here
anymore,
but
I'm
gonna.
T
So
without
going
delving
into
like
a
lot
of
the
details,
the
the
equity
in
and
of
itself
is
within
the
land
because
by
to
Byron's
point,
the
land
itself
is
what
holds
that
value.
But
there
are
practices
within
the
business
and
commercial
sectors
that
you
can
actually
divvy
up.
Portions
of
that
to
the
individuals
who
are
living
within
that
community,
that
is
then
equitable
and
marketable,
and
they
can
sell
it
a
profit
or
a
loss
that.
B
E
Right,
excuse
me,
my
name
is
Dave
ensign,
so
I'm,
the
ex-officio
of
liaison
to
the
housing
advisory
board
from
the
Planning
Board
and
just
thought
I'd.
Throw
in
a
few
observations
based
on
things.
I've
heard,
planning
board
routinely
sees
things
in
the
code
that
are
frustrating
to
us,
of
course,
and
the
tiny
homes
thing
is
an
example
of
something
where
we
see
a
lot
of
value,
and
we
always
look
to
hear
from
the
community
and
I
really
think
AB
for
doing
this,
because
we
look
for
opportunities
to
advise
council
and
to
give
them
our
opinion.
E
I
know,
at
least
on
a
few
occasions
in
our
annual
letter
we've
recommended
looking
into
the
tiny
homes
pilot,
for
example,
I
wanted
to
just
talk
about
the
building
code.
Updates
that
went
in
I
think
that
we
need
to
keep
one
thing
in
mind
before
those
updates
went
in
I.
Don't
think
there
was
any
way
you
could
do
the
on
wheels
thing
before.
E
So
what
happened
was
this
fix
foundation
thing
came
in
because
the
the
staff
decided
to
adopt
this
appendix
Q
in
the
international
codes
that
loosens
some
standards
for
the
lofts
in
the
stairways
and
overhead
windows,
and
things
like
that,
so
it
actually
can
I
have
opened
up
the
discussion,
which
was
kind
of
a
cool
thing.
My
sense
is
that
if
Planning
Board
and
council
had
told
staff
hey,
we
we
want
to
address
on
wheels,
they
would
have
had
to
go
off
and
work
for
some
time.
E
You
know
six
months
and
the
overall
goal
that
they
were
trying
to
do
was
just
bring
the
code
updates
to
the
latest
version
of
the
international
standards.
So
I
don't
think
we
lost
anything
so
I
just
wanted
to
make
sure
people
didn't
think
that
we
have
been
losing
ground
on
this.
However,
there
was
not
I
guess
it
was
not
seen
as
an
opportunity
to
necessarily
address
that.
E
I
do
think
that
address
those
kind
of
things
we're
going
to
as
boards
and
commissions
and
as
the
public
really
try
to
help
council
prioritize
what
to
put
on
the
work
plan.
So
we
have
the
wheels
one
which
we've
heard
a
lot
of
voices
in
the
room,
talk
about
great
things
that
it
does
for
the
individual,
and
this
is
really
important.
We
also
have
an
overall
inclusionary
housing,
an
affordable
housing
landscape
that
we
have
to
deal
with.
E
So
does
that
fall
well
within
that,
and
is
it
something
that
we'd
like
to
add
and
it
may
be
reasonably
low
hanging
fruit?
Like
you
said
it
may
not
be
that
big
of
a
change
to
our
building
code
to
do
something
like
that,
but
it's
something
that
would
have
to
be
researched
and
scheduled.
The
other
thing
is
the
zoning
laws
that
really
make
it
hard
for
us
to
do
things
like
they're
doing
in
Longmont
dwelling
units
are
very
specifically
defined
and
dwelling
units
only
a
certain
number
of
them
can
appear
on
a
lot
attached.
E
E
What
I
think
that
we
really
have
to
do
is
help
have
and
Planning
Board
and
council
kind
of
prioritize,
which
are
the
ones
that
are
kind
of
trickling
in
the
top
that
we
want
to
retract
soon
and
start
to
get
those
on
you
know,
prioritized
so
I
think
that's
just
kind
of
the
way
it
works.
So
I
just
wanted
to
kind
of
talk
about
that
a
bit.
Thank.
E
B
Note
on
that
there's
a
couple
things:
I
want
to
we're:
gonna
be
wrapping
up
soon,
so
there's
two
things:
I
want
to
make
I
just
want
to
make
the
note
that
Lyons,
it's
a
very
limited
program,
I
think
for
twelve
tiny
homes.
Ten
tiny
homes.
Excuse
me
in
the
whole
town
yeah
and
it's
a
small
town,
however,
but
the
other
thing
that
I
want
to
say
is
we're
gonna
wrap
up
the
listening
session
portion
of
this
in
a
few
minutes.
W
So
I
was
curious.
What
is
the
problem
with
tiny
homes
being
in
mobile
home
parks
and
like
I,
think
that
would
be
a
great
first
step,
because
there's
a
lot
of
really
junky
mobile
homes
that
could
really
get
used
to
get
pulled
out,
sent
to
the
dump
and
something
nice
put
in
and
what
they
did
over
in
the
Mapleton
Park.
They
have
rehab
sand
mobile
homes
that
look
great
and.
E
J,
you
can
jump
in
you're
the
expert
who
works
for
the
city,
but
as
a
Planning
Board
member
I've
been
exposed
to
this.
The
zoning
for
mobile
home
parks,
the
imagining
has
very
detailed
language
on
how
those
are
manufactured,
how
they're,
tied
down
and
they're
very
specific
to
the
types
of
of
land
use
arrangements
between
those
trailer
homeowners
and
the
owners
of
the
land
and
also
the
type
of
construction.
That's
done
in
those
mobile
homes,
so
they're
constructed
under,
and
there
are
specific
standards
for
a
mobile
home
fabrication
that
are
built
into
the
code.
E
So
the
code
just
doesn't
have
any
language
that
accommodates
anything
other
than
that
right
now
now
that
doesn't
mean
that
we
couldn't
update,
and
that
might
be
the
kind
of
thing
we
would
do
with
an
ordinance
or
we
would
just
define
a
new
designation
depending
on
the
need.
E
W
When
you
had
a
job
and
you
worked
there
for
25
years
and
then
you
got
your
retirement
and
that's
just
not
true
anymore,
and
that's
why
we
need
to
open
up
the
idea
of
the
wheels
because
you
know
like
like
he
said
you
might
have
to
take
a
job
or
just
do
18
months,
things
here
and
there
and
I
think
having
that's
a
good
option.
Sorry,
moving
on
I.
J
Guess
I'd
like
to
just
make
one
recommendation:
it
sounds
like
we're:
there's
interest
in
tiny
homes
on
wheels,
but
also
other
structures
on
a
house.
One
of
the
limitations
we
have
is
the
saturation
twenty
percent
saturation
of
homes
can
have
something
in
the
backyard
detached,
and
that
would
be
a
real
stumbling
block.
We
don't
address
that
in
conjunction
with
conversations
around
tiny
homes
on
wheels,
so
that's
I
mean,
even
though
this
is
a
housing
advisory
board.
That's
one
thing
that
I
think
we
need
to
start
really
talking
to
the
funding
board
talking
to
council
about.
F
So
I
really
appreciate
everybody's
insight
and
comments
on
this
and
I.
Think.
What's
really
imperative
and
I'd
kind
of
put
this
out
to
everybody
in
the
public
now
is
to
move
forward
on
this.
What
to
think
about
so
you
know
we
have
I,
understand
your
point
about
code
compliance
but
I,
don't
think
really
building
code
compliance
is
ever
the
issue.
The
issue
is
how
we
attain
code
compliance
with
the
development
code
of
the
lanes
code,
the
zoning
code,
and
from
that
perspective
we
don't
have
it
right
now.
So
how
do
we
get
there?
F
F
It's
still
going
to
be
there,
and
so
the
best
thing
that
you
can
do
is
really
come
up
with
with
concepts
that
really
kind
of
address
what
those
concerns
may
be
in
terms
of
design
standards
right,
so
that
you
know
this
is
what
the
facade
is
going
to
look
like
on
the
outside.
These
are
the
areas
where
they're
most
appropriate
in
a
yard,
so
somewhere,
where
they're
screening
somewhere,
where
there's
viable
entrance,
at
cetera,
et
cetera.
F
What
of
a
minimum
amounts
of
time
that
somebody
can
stay
there.
You
know
so
there's
somebody's
not
coming
in
staying.
It's
almost
like
it's
short
term,
rentals
right,
they
come
in
and
they
stay
for
a
week
and
then
they
leave,
and
so
those
things
are
legitimate
concerns
and
I.
Think
it's
it's
you
know
very
viable
to
say
we
can
come
up
with
a
structure
that
can
address
those
things.
F
Some
of
those
other
concerns
too,
and
so
I
put
it
out
to
people
that
know
a
lot
more
about
this
than
me,
but
I
just
say:
that's
something
that
I
love
to
hear
in
terms
of
where
they
can
go,
how
we
can
put
them
there,
how
long
they
should
stay
there,
etc
and
I
think
that
can
really
start
to
make
that
notion
a
lot
more
viable
in
terms
of
the
whole
political
process
which
is
necessary
to
get
to
the
next
step.
So.
C
Thank
you,
I'm
sure,
shox
gonna
thank
everyone
at
the
conclusion,
but
I
just
also
besides.
That
I
wanted
to
add
that
if
there
are
some
of
you
who
are
not
comfortable
talking
in
a
group
setting
or
have
more,
you
want
to
say
you
can
email
us
at
housing.
Advisory
Board
at
Boulder,
Colorado,
gov
or
you
can
go
onto
the
city
website
be
heard.
Boulder
has
a
section
right
now
where
people
can
make
comments
about
tiny
homes,
and
so
you
have
other
options.
If
you
didn't
get
to
say
everything
you
want
here.
B
As
Judy
said,
I
will
say
thank
you,
I
think,
Danny,
wrapped
up
a
lot
of
what
I
was
going
to
put
into
my
closing
statement
here
around
that
kind
of
just
the
solutions
to
put
forth.
If
you
see
them
and
that
segues
into
what
you
just
said,
send
them
to
us.
That's
really
what
we're
here
to
try
to
do
start
to
get
a
sense
of.
B
If
we
want
to
do
this
in
Boulder,
how
can
we
move
forward?
What
are
the
most
viable
pathways,
and
we
need
your
ideas
for
that
and
that's
why
we're
here
tonight?
So
a
ton
of
thanks
to
all
of
you
for
coming
out
and
giving
us
your
stories,
giving
us
your
ideas
and
helping
us
try
to
move
forward
with
it
all
right
and
we
are
gonna
move
to
the
rest
of
our
business.
Now
we
can
just
leave
these
chairs
right
where
we
are
and
we're
gonna
do
the
boring
stuff.
B
N
C
N
M
H
B
H
B
B
G
B
AB
H
This
seems
like
a
great
opportunity.
We'll
have
a
joint
board
meeting
between
AB
and
HRC.
Public
would
have
one
place
to
go
to
visit
and
it
wouldn't
have
to
go
to
multiple
boards
to
share
their
ideas.
It
would
save
staff
time
and
it
would
be
a
good
opportunity
for
the
two
boards
to
interact.
We
met
with
the
chairs
last
week
and
HRC
was
the
their
chairs
were
pretty
clear
that
they
were
not
interested
in
a
joint
meeting.
H
They
said
that
wasn't
the
direction
they'd
heard
from
council
and
that
they
have
a
lot
of
business
to
attend
to
that
night
and
that's
basically,
they
felt
that
they
should
be
better
served
by
having
separate
meetings.
So
all
the
chairs
basically
agreed
at
that
meeting
that
okay,
we'll
go
back
to
our
original
plan.
H
That's
why
it
was
kind
of
abrupt,
and
so
we
went
back
to
the
meeting
on
the
18th
and
that's
kind
of
where
we
are
today.
So
we'd
still
want
to
do
the
type
of
engagement
that
you
guys
talked
about
way
back
in
January,
and
that's
why
Brenda
is
here
and
if
there
are
and
we're
happy
to
talk
through
some
ideas.
You
know
Brenda
and
I.
H
Both
went
and
went
to
what
lunchtime
webinar
to
talk
about
the
Socratic
circle,
which
could
have
been
and
could
be
an
opportunity,
but
I
think
there
might
be
able,
when
I
heard
from
the
chairs,
that
our
last
meaning
to
that
might
be
a
little
too
soon
at
the
March
meeting.
So
we
could
potentially
revisit
that
or
we
can
pattern
it
on
the
existing.
H
What
we
just
saw
in
terms
of
a
listening
session
so
and
one
other
piece
that
I'll
plug
in
and
I'll,
be
quiet
the
homeless
bus
tour
and
is
going
to
be
March
12th,
so
the
Thursday
before
your
meeting.
So
hopefully
everybody
is
already
RSVP'd,
but
that'll
be
a
great
opportunity.
You
can
interact
with
HRC
members.
There
learn
more
about
the
issue.
I
think
that
it's
shaping
up
to
be
a
really
fascinating
tour,
so
if
you
can
make
it
I
would
highly
encourage
it.
So
I'm
not
gonna,
have
answer
any
other
questions
you
might
have.
B
Okay,
thanks
yeah,
so
I'm
gonna
just
leave
it
there
with
Jays
schnapps
us
of
it
and
we.
So
we
now
sit
back
in
the
position
of
having
to
put
together
that
meeting
and
we
had
big
dreams.
I
think
there
was
a
lot
of
excitement
around
so
I
want
to
kind
of
read
with
that,
and
our
time
frame
is
shorter.
Now
for
preparing,
we
had
two
volunteers
to
work
on
that
preparation.
F
In
it,
you
know
three
weeks
all
right
enough
time
to
get
that,
and
you
know
we
kind
of
talked
about
ways
that
we
were
going
to
try
to
generate
turnout
and
make
sure
we
had
ample
turned
out,
and
even
you
know,
provided
meals.
You
can,
you
know,
contribute
into
that,
but
stuff
like
that.
I
was
down
with
all
that
stuff
and
I,
just
I
I
really
loved.
F
D
That's
great
points,
so
here's
what
we
were
thinking
cuz
the
date
was
moving
around,
so
we
were
like
we
get,
would
come
and
donate
so
there
was
just
some
finagling
with
that.
I
approached
the
so
what
we
thought
about,
whether
or
not
we'd
get
people
here
and
in
lieu
of
getting
people.
Here
we
go
to
them,
it's
a
vulnerable
population.
We
should
be
going
to
them
and
so
I'm
I'm
in
a
space
on
her
name
over
at
the
bridge
house,
at
the
emergency
center
on
30th
Street.
E
D
Sorry
Isabel
has
offered
us
potentially
to
go
there,
so
we
can
go
there.
Provide
food
I
have
the
same
kind
of
a
listening
set
up
that
way.
They
don't
have
to
come
to
us
plus
Brenda
brought
up
a
good
point
tonight
is
that
for
them
to
get
into
the
shelter
or
to
get
into
the
services
they
have
to
be
over
there.
So
if
they
come
here,
they're
missing
out
on
their
shelter
for
the
night,
so
us
going
there
is
appropriate
and
yeah.
It's
totally
enough
time.
C
C
C
P
D
N
AB
One
thing
that
we've
found
successful
and
engagement
with
vulnerable
populations
is
to
let
the
folks
who
work
with
those
populations.
Co-Create,
yes,
I've
been
with
us,
so
it's
possible
that
a
Wednesday
at
6
o'clock
at
severe
weather
shelter
might
be
a
rough
time
for
them
to
be
doing
anything
other
than
housing
people
who
have
come
to
severe
weather
shelter
and
providing
the
services
for
the
folks
who
are
there
so
Isabel
Singh
amenable
to
it.
AB
D
D
And
it
brings
up
a
good
point
which
Terry
and
I
were
talking
about
too.
Is
that
to
create
some
ease
if
the
first
half
hour
is
that
it's
above
face
that
we're
all
having
food
and
sitting
and
breaking
bread
together
before
we
go
into
a
listening
session?
To
have
that
be
more
of
a
welcoming
experience,
I
believe.
B
B
It's
that
date
it's
that
date
and
could
be
a
few
hours
before
yeah
the
state
at
time,
and
you
know
I
think
as
it's
a
rolling
thing
too,
we
could.
You
know
we
could
start
things.
As
you
said,
it's
gonna
be
kind
of
a
hangout
time
initially
and
then
we'll
get
into
the
listing
session.
So
I
think
if
somebody
rolled
in
late
that
would
also
work.
Fine,
probably
right
I.
C
G
You
know
we
don't
have
the
capacity
to
do
something
like
that.
We
don't
have
the
equipment
necessary.
The
only
thing
that
I
have
is
the
small
recording
device,
and
so
you
know
I
don't
have
a
microphone
either.
So
if
we're
in
a
very
large
space
and
people
are
not
loudspeakers
and
we
don't
have
them
close
enough
to
the
microphone,
it
may
not
record
everything,
but
that's
pretty
much
all
the
equipment
we
have.
So
that's.
We
have
taken
SIA.
C
D
G
P
C
G
Recorder
and
it
does
have
the
ability
to
pick
up
sound
so
long
as
people
are
close
enough
to
it
and
speak
up.
We
can
look
into
renting
equipment,
but
that
could
get
really
pricey
yeah
I'm,
just
letting
you
guys
know,
because
this
is
gonna
come
out
of
your
budget
for
the
year
and
it
could
cost
upwards
of
five
hundred
dollars
to
rent
equipment
for
the
day.
Yeah.
F
G
B
Shall
we
just
suggest
initially
that
we're
gonna
use
our
existing
means
yeah,
but
let's
just
put
it
out
here.
Somebody
in
this
room
knows
somebody
who
does
sound
in
some
way
shape
or
form,
and
maybe
we
can
get
something
that
could
record
and
serve
the
purpose.
So
if
anybody's
got
anybody
in
their
back,
you
might
know
that,
let's
just
put
it
out
there
and
see
if
we
can
get
something
better
so
that
we
can
effectively
record
those
voices.
I
mean
it'd,
be
nice
to
have
recorded
voices
for
the
meeting.
AB
F
A
walkie
just
point
to
bring
up
can't
help
it
everything,
but
so
we
probably,
if
we're
all
there
at
4:30
or
something
right
for
Open
Meetings
Act
for
the
Sunshine
Law,
we're
gonna
need
a
just
notice
it
for
then,
as
well,
have
quorum.
So
I.
AB
Will
say
one
benefit
about
going
to
that
community
dinner.
Is
that
some
of
the
folks
who
have
not
been
able
to
access
services
through
coordinated
entry
can
come
and
have
that
dinner?
It's
open
to
the
public,
so
you
may
be
able
to
meet
with
some
people
who
the
current
services
now
are
not
necessarily
good
pathways
for
them,
and.
D
C
When
we
were
at
this
meeting
with
the
Human
Relations
Commission
Jacque
mentioned
something
that
I
thought
was
a
really
good
idea.
While
we're
looking
for
tools
and
new
ideas
and
new
strategies
to
help
for
people
who
are
unheated,
we
confine
it
to
housing,
and
so
we
not
veer
off
into
areas
where
we
don't
have
expertise
or
learning
like
more
mental
health
services
or
more
alcohol,
rehab
services
or
whatever
that
we
can
find
it.
Two
ideas
about
housing,
so
I
just
wanted
to
have
us
all
talk
about
that.
I
think.
B
I
want
to
revisit
that
comment,
because
I
do
think
that
this
format
that
we're
putting
back
together
here
I
might
I
would
pull
back
on
that
a
little
bit
because
I
don't
know
how
viable,
that
is
to
say,
hey
everybody.
We
want
to
hear
about
it,
but
we
only
want
to
hear
about
this
from
you,
so
I
think
it's
probably
it's.
It's
gonna
be
a
broader
discussion.
B
We
may
be
able
to
give
that
as
a
prompt
and
say
hey
what
what
works
for
you
as
interim
structures
that
we
can
put
together
that
we
haven't
thought
about
that.
You
know
and
we
can
maybe
give
it
some
direction,
but
I'm
sure
it's
gonna,
we're
gonna,
hear
many
different
perspectives
on
many
different
things,
so
we.
E
I
actually
had
a
question
about
that
was
the
ask
from
the
council:
did
that
come
with
just
this
general
question
or
did?
Was
there
going
to
be
a
presentation
from
staff
on
ideas
that
then
the
boards
would
comment
on
because,
generally
the
that's
the
format
we
always
get
when
we're
asked
to
comment
on
something?
Is
that
there'll
be
a
set
of
proposals
from
staff?
But
if
this
is
specifically
an
open-ended
question,
then
it
sounds
like
this
format
will
work,
but
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
there
wasn't
something.
H
Council
when
they
made
the
request,
it
was
a
very
generic
request,
but
staff
has
been
talking
about
it
and
one
option,
and
you
guys
can
tell
me
what
you
think
about
this.
There
are
several
council
members
who
have
floated
specific
ideas
right.
So
maybe
we
address
those
as
part
of
the
staff
presentation
and
that
sort
of
gives
you
something
to
kind
of
react
to,
but
the
idea
is,
we
didn't
want
to
limit
it
to
just
a
few
suggestions.
H
The
idea
is,
if
there's
something
new
that
we
haven't
considered
before,
we
definitely
want
to
explore
that
and
input
I.
Think
that,
just
to
be
clear
what
council
asked
for
is
you
know
we
don't
want
a
list
of
50
things.
We
would
like
you
know
a
handful
or
less
of
topics
that
we
can
ask
staff
to
go
back
and
do
some
additional
work
on.
D
B
H
H
To
provide
that
context
and
sort
of
a
you
know
a
basis
of
information
so
but
I'm
thinking
we're
thinking.
That's
like
15
20
minutes
tops,
tops
yeah
even
less
and
you're
gonna
learn
more
from
the
tour
to
a
lot
of
that's
gonna,
get
covered
on
the
tour,
but
for
the
people
in
the
audience
to
understand
what
it
is,
we're
currently
doing,
I
think
it's
important
to
come.
I.
B
D
Exactly
yeah
my
thing
I
want
some
clarity
to
around
because
there's
been
some
things
that
have
happened
behind
closed
doors
between
you
and
councilors.
Some
somebody
else,
because
you
keep
referring
all
I
know
about,
is
when
we
were
at
retreat
for
the
work
plan
where
that
came
from
with
the
HRC
and
us
working
on.
D
It's
got
a
lot
going
on
how
about
we
discuss
it
in
April
and
that's
when
Rachel's
suggested
that
hab
and
HRC
pick
it
up
and
do
the
legwork
with
people
before
hand
and
give
recommendations
back
so
for
what
I
heard
was
that
around
the
services
that
they're
pitching
as
fillers
for
what
the
coordinated
entry
is
missing?
These
were
possible
options
and
then
the
question
became
we
have
individuals
with
lived
experience
that
are
not
at
the
table.
D
So
we're
we're
here
reigning
without
drawing
lived
experience
to
the
table
and
asking
them
for
their
input
on
a
court
on
a
comprehensive
on
house
plan,
and
so
it
sounds
like
there's
been
discussion
with
council
since
then
and
I'm
curious,
because
you
were
like
don't
bring
back
50
bring
back
and
I
was
like
I
think,
there's
already
stuff
on
the
table.
Is
there
not?
There.
H
Are
stuff
on
the
table
so
I
don't
think
what
you
just
described
is
inconsistent
with
what
I
was
describing
I.
Think
what
I
understood
I
wasn't
at
the
retreat.
So
I
don't
know
exactly
what
everyone
said,
but
I
thought
there
was
a
Qunari.
What
am
I
understanding?
There
is
a
component
of.
Are
there
new
ideas?
It
wasn't
just
a
reaction
to
what
Adam
and
Rachel
have
thrown
out
there
is
that
accurate
yeah.
B
B
So
I
think
one
thing
that
I'm
thinking
about
what
this
is
we're
gonna
get,
as
you
said,
I
think,
if
I'm
hearing
what
Mason
saying
this
kind
of,
let's
glean
some
new,
especially
for
the
entry
coordinated
gleen,
where
we're
missing
what
are
some
things
we
can
do
to
to
close
those
gaps,
is
that
is
that
correct?
Was
that
part
of
that.
D
B
D
H
C
My
understanding
from
from
I
went
back
and
listened
to
our
meeting
when
Kristin
presented.
What
counsel
had
requested
and
memo
that
you
wrote
all
of
us
about
it
and
I
thought
that
our
task
was
pretty
clear
and
that
we're
supposed
to
invite
public
participation
to
learn
new
ideas,
tools
and
strategies
to
help
for
people
who
are
on
housed,
and
my
thought
was
that
counsel
was
looking
to
make
sure
that
everything
was
covered
and
they
had
all
the
new
input
and
and
that,
as
you
said,
I
mean
council.
C
Members
have
told
me
that,
when
that
when
we
present
them
with
40
or
50
ideas,
they're
not
going
to
pay
much
attention,
but
when
we
present
them
with
four
or
five
they're
going
to
look
at
it
more
seriously.
So
if
we
can
hear
what
everyone
thinks
are
new
ideas
and
we'll
hear
a
lot
of
things
that
aren't
new
ideas,
but
that
with
then,
then
our
job
would
be
to
call
that
down
to
a
few
ideas
to
present
to
Council.
E
B
I'm
I'm,
feeling
like
where
this
meeting
is
gonna
go,
is:
is
that
we're
gonna
have
a
lot
of
input?
Probably
a
broad
range
of
things.
I
think
our
role
as
hab
is
to
do
just
that
is
to
glean
and
I
would
I
would
argue
that
we
put
a
lens
on
it
of
housing,
in
other
words,
things
that
we
are
engaged
with
was
how
do
we
provide
these
things,
but
we
don't
necessarily
limit
it
to
that.
F
D
AB
We
can
certainly
put
something
up
on
be
her
Boulder.
Also
I
was
talking
with
Lindell
Ellison,
who
is
the
resident
services
manager
at
the
Lee
Hill
permanent,
supportive
housing
site,
which
is
folks
who
are
just
on
the
other
side
of
homelessness,
and
she
said
if
you,
if
we
could
send
her
a
worksheet
that
had
the
questions
on
it,
she
could
distribute
it
to
her
residence.
She
said
it's
hard
for
them
to
get
out
in
the
evenings,
usually,
but
she'd
be
happy
to
collect
answers
to
those
things.
AB
We
can
distribute
that
while
I
stood
up
I'm
thinking
about
sort
of
the
business
versions
of
the
meeting
when
it
came
up
with
the
presentation
I'm
just
trying
to
picture
the
at
bridge
house
how
we're
doing
a
presentation
and
then
how
a
discussion
like
this
is
happening
after
the
meeting,
while
in
the
middle
of
severe
weather
shelter
the
time
I
was
there
I
believe
they
use
the
whole
building
for
beds
and
so
just
asking
Melissa
what
what
those
capabilities
are?
It's
also
hard
to
have
a
culling
conversation
in
front
of
very
vulnerable
folks.
AB
B
Know
I
think
I
think
the
question
is
I
think
the
question
there
is
when
you
bring
a
good
point.
We
don't
have
time
between
that
meeting.
There's
no
second
meeting,
then
we
don't
have
another
meeting
to
say
these
are
the
pieces
that
we're
gonna
put
together
and
deliver
to
Council
so
in
some
way
shape
or
form.
We
have
to
wrap
it
up
in
that
meeting.
Unless
we
have
another
meeting
that
we
call
a
notice
and
we
go
to
a
bar.
AB
D
Well,
something
interesting,
I'm,
just
gonna
throw
this
out
there.
If
we
meet
from
say
we
meet
earlier
and
we're
doing
like
a
4:30,
5:30,
6
o'clock,
or
something
and
we'd
owe
their
the
road
house
across
the
way
has
a
private
conference
room
and
the
lower
level
of
it.
So
we
could
adjourn
for
15
minutes,
go
across
to
the
Roadhouse
and
use
the
conference
room
and
downstairs
and
finish
up
our
meeting
meeting
public.
G
One
thing
to
that:
I
just
I'm
thinking
ahead
about
logistics,
if
we
do
have
a
staff
person
come
in
to
do
a
brief
presentation
like
what
Jay
suggested
about
the
homelessness
strategy
and
whatever
do
they
have
the
capability
for
us
to
be
able
to
set
up
a
computer
and
have
a
screen
and
all
of
the
other
things
that
come
along
with
a
presentation.
I
would
personally.
AB
Did
did
a
10-minute
version
of
what
she
did
for
council
at
a
meeting
we
had
with
Boulder
Junction
neighbors
recently,
so
maybe
it's
something
more
like
that.
Just
with
no,
she
didn't
have
a
no
PowerPoint
or
anything.
She
just
shared
the
things
that
we
did,
that
they
had
been
working
on
and
the
results
they've
seen
she.
F
Think
you
know
I'll
be
a
brief,
but
having
staff
kind
of
lay
out
what's
out
there
first,
because
a
lot
of
people
might
not
even
know,
and
so
it's
really
important
to
get
that
out
to
them
say
these
are
out
there
for
you,
especially
if
we're
gonna
ask
them.
What
are
we
missing
right?
Well,
what
do
you
have
right
and
so
and
what.
F
C
Have
another
question
so
I
have
not
seen
the
space
that
they're
Brenda.
You
have
seen
this
space
I.
Have
you
know
I
just
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
not
having
the
meeting
at
a
time
when
the
people
who
are
staying
there
that
that's
their
space
and
we're
preventing
them
from
you
laying
out
their
mattresses
and
stuff
like
that.
AB
That's
the
question
to
Melissa:
they
have
dinner
from
4:30
to
6:00
I'm,
not
sure
what
time
the
beds
go
down.
The
beds
are
all
cots
that
are
sort
of
up
against
the
wall.
There's
two
spaces.
One
side
is
for
the
folks
who
are
in
the
path
to
home
program
and
the
other
side
of
severe
weather
shelter.
So
it'll
be
a
good
question
for
Melissa.
As
far
as
how
the
logistics
of
that
work
so.
G
Keep
in
mind
the
sooner
we
can
confirm
space
the
better,
because
I
do
have
to
at
least
put
advance
notice
in
the
paper
for
these
meetings
and
pin
down
the
exact
locations
and
approximate
times
so
that
I
can
put
out
the
proper
notices
for
these
meetings.
But
I
will
need
to
know
by
the
next
chairs
meeting
I
promised
very
latest
something.
G
D
My
sense
of
urgency
on
this
we're
losing
the
shelter
in
the
spring.
The
the
emergency
shelter
in
the
spring.
We've
got
massive
issues
on
the
end
house.
We've
got
sweeps
going
on.
I
personally
have
a
sense
of
urgency
around
not
postponing
these
things
just
because
we
have
beds
to
go
home
to,
and
this
is
urgent
for
I
mean
I-
was
kind
of
shocked
about
the
seven
eight
hundred
vets
on
our
streets,
so
I
I
think
this
is
absolutely
doable.
This
is
kind
of
an.
C
O
C
Think
it's
emergency
to
also
because
we
can't
this
is
the
first
time
consuls
asked
specifically
asked
anything
of
us
and
if
we
don't
get
it
done,
then
we
won't
be
able
to
deliver.
So
the
issue
is,
you
know
if
you
find
out
the
place,
isn't
right
because
it'll
prevent
people
from
putting
out
their
cots
or
being
comfortable.
N
AB
H
B
B
C
C
Didn't
you
send
something
out
that
said
if
anyone
had
any
specific
things
they
want
to
talk
about,
so
all
shocked
and
I
need
to
know.
Right
now
is
if,
in
the
next
couple
of
days
anybody
does
have
certain
topics
they
want
to
talk
about
to,
let
us
know,
and
then
we
can
go
ahead
and
plan
and
we'll
meet
with
the
woman
who's
going
to
be
the
facilitator.
So
we
don't
have
to
talk
about
it.
B
P
C
B
C
B
D
Actually
have
a
question
about
it:
I'm
really
curious
how
you
handle
how
we're
doing
this
like
I
mean
it
feels
really
weird.
It
feels
like
we're.
What
what
are
we
doing?
What
I
mean?
Wouldn't
it
was
so
we're
touring.
The
topic
is
literally
addressing
homeless
bus
tour.
Are
we
going
where
they're
sweeping
or
and
I
just
I
can't
wrap
my
brain
around
this?
What
does
this
look
like.
H
H
D
H
The
next
stop
will
is
the
homeless,
shelter,
so,
basically
you'll
go
in
and
as
in
people
been
in
the
homeless,
shelter
before
I
mean
it's
pretty
interesting,
so
I
mean
it's
beautiful,
oh
I'm.
Sorry,
no
start,
we
start
with
coordinated
entry.
Is
the
next
stop
and
with
the
severe
weather,
shelter
next
door,
they'll
talk
about
sort
of
the
three
services
that
are
provided
there?
Then
they
go
to
the
homeless,
shelter.
H
H
Just
if
we're
going
to
be
a
very
quick
tour
through
and
then
we
haven't
quite
figured
out
if
you're
gonna
go
into
Lee
Hill
or
if
we're
just
gonna
walk
by
it,
but
just
basically
try
to
show
that
continuum
so
from
you
know
being
in
the
you
know,
some
people
their
first
experience
with
our
system
is
the
courts
and
then
the
next
step
is
through
coordinated
entry
or
the
severe
weather,
shelter
and
next
it's
the
homeless,
shelter.
And
then
it's
a
transitional
or
permanent
supportive
housing,
the
transitional
housing
so
we're
trying
to
show
the
continuum.
H
B
B
B
C
B
Think
my
my
thought
on
that
is
for
me
this
is
gonna,
be
an
item
that
I'm
gonna
put
into
our
retreat.
I
think
that
anything
that
we
do
put
forth
needs
to
be
well
thought
out
and
put
together.
So
it's
not
something
from
my
perspective,
but
I
think
that
we
want
to
just
say
you
know
we
had
this
listening
session,
here's
what
we
heard
but
I
think
I'd
like
to
see
us
engage
with
it,
put
some
backbone
to
it
and
then
and
then
move
it
forward.
I
absolutely
agree:
I.
F
F
You
know,
particularly
with
that
regulatory
side
and
stuff,
like
that
and
I,
think
there
was
some
strong
sentiment
that
we
are
today
that
you
know
we
can
relay
in
the
best
way,
but
they'll
probably
be
a
good
retreat
thing
talk
about
how
we
convey
those
things,
and
maybe
that
can
underscore
a
broader
retreat
issue,
which
is
you
know,
we're
going
to
have
all
these
listening
sessions
and
we'll
have
another
significant
one
that
or
our
belts
by
the
time
we
do
that
retreat.
You
guys
do
the
retreat
whatever,
but.
E
F
That
point
in
time,
I
think
you
know,
have
a
good
idea
of
saying:
here's
how
we're
going
to
kind
of
decompress
the
Lycians
listening
session
and
then
relay
that
information
from
that
point
forward.
Right,
yeah,
because
I
think
there's
some
process.
For
that,
and
probably
you
know
doing
it
on
the
fly
is
probably
not
the
best
thing.
Yeah.