►
Description
City of Charleston Committee on Human Resources 5/12/22 2/2
A
B
B
B
E
Okay
morning,
mayor
council,
today
we
have
for
you
for
the
hr
committee.
Our
workforce,
update
and
preliminary
compensation
survey
results.
E
It's
open
all
right
so
to
get
a
startup
started.
We
just
have
a
sort
of
brief
update
on
our
demographics,
so
we
have
just
the
race
and
ethnicity
breakdown
for
our
non-sworn
fire
and
police
staff,
gender
breakdown
for
the
same
education
level.
These
are
all
versions
of
stats
you
may
have
seen
previously,
but
we
have
two
new
ones.
We
wanted
to
share
with
you
today,
which
is
the
employees
residing
in
city
limits.
We
know
this
has
been
a
topic.
E
That's
come
up,
so
we
ran
some
data
to
see
where
we
sort
of
fall
with
that
our
non-sworn
staff,
approximately
30
percent
of
those
employees,
reside
actually
within
city
limits
for
the
fire
department.
It's
approximately
33
percent
for
police.
It's
approximately
41
for
a
total
of
about
35
percent
of
city
employees
actually
residing
in
city
limits.
E
We
also
have
another
new
stat
employee
replacement
rate,
which
is
really
just
how
many
we
hire
versus
how
many
leave
for
non-sworn
year-to-date.
We
have
hired
82
employees,
89
have
separated
for
fire
we've
hired
27
lost
17
for
police
we've,
hired
15
and
lost
16.
for
a
total
of
124
new
hires
122
separations.
D
E
E
E
Correct
now
we
just
data
they
keep
a
list
of
actual
city
addresses.
That
was
how
we
ran
our
comparison,
so
we
really
just
know
how
many
people
are
not
in
the
city.
Okay,
thank
you.
E
That's
correct
and
the
fire
department
tends
to
hire
in
a
big
group
because
they
run
big
classes,
so
they've
hired
a
major
class
this
year,
which
is
why
their
number
is
so
high
that
will
drop
off
over
the
years
since
we're
going
to
go
a
few
months
before
we
see
another.
B
Is
a
follow-up
on
employees
residing
in
city
limits?
Do
we
know
whether
or
not
there
is
any
assistance
that
these
fires,
public
safety
personnel,
have
gotten
that
makes
it
affordable
for
them
to
live
in
the
city,
for
example,
there
are
first-time
home
buyer
programs
out
there.
B
E
I'm
definitely
not
as
familiar
with
those
programs,
but
we
can
look
into
that
more
and
see
what
information
we
can
find.
Thank
you.
Yes,
sir
moving
on
so
our
first
real
chart,
we
have
our
staffing
levels,
so
this
is
just
our
current
staffing
level
for
all
of
our
city,
employees.
The
blue
line
is
for
the
police
department.
The
red
line
is
for
the
fire
department
and
the
white
or
silvery
line
is
for
our
non-sworn
employees.
So
that's
everybody.
That's
not
a
police
officer
or
a
firefighter.
E
We
have
some
of
the
historical
data
in
there
as
well,
but
we're
really
kind
of
primarily
focused
on
the
last
couple
of
years.
We
see
fire
it's
kind
of
been
hovering
around
sort
of
the
same
amount,
married
to
your
question
about
the
fire
department.
They
have
big
classes,
which
is
where
we
see
big
spikes
and
their
staffing
level,
because
they
bring
on
a
large
number
at
once.
Police
holds
relatively
stable.
E
They
had
a
small
dip
sort
of
right,
as
kobe
kicked
off,
they've
started
to
recover
their
staffing
levels
a
little
bit
and
then
for
the
white
line
for
non-sworn.
The
staffing
level
has
essentially
maintained
a
pretty
downward
tick
since
about
november
of
2018.,
and
currently
our
non-sworn
staffing
is
about
75.
E
The
next
chart
we
have
the
four-month
moving
average,
which
is
just
a
way
for
us
to
look
at
the
trend
to
see.
If
there's
any
major
trends,
we
see
again
fire
holding
somewhat
stable
police.
E
We
ended
up
with
a
fire
turnover
rate
of
about
8.5,
a
police
turnover
rate
of
about
11
and
a
non-sworn
turnover
rate
of
about
26,
which
is
the
highest
from
any
year
that
we've
kind
of
looked
at
for
non-sworn
fires,
turnover
rate
did
tick
up,
but
2020
was
a
uncharacter
uncharacteristically
low
year
for
them
coming
in
at
about
three
percent,
whereas
historically
they
kind
of
hover
around
nine
or
ten
police.
Similarly,
they've
held
pretty
stable.
E
They
didn't
really
see
a
drop
sort
of
through
the
coveted
years,
so
they've
hovered
around
ten
and
non-sworn
we'd,
historically
kind
of
stayed,
maybe
around
15,
but
have
had
to
climb
up
to
that.
26
percent.
E
That's
correct,
so
that
is
total
turnover
just
to
account
for
essentially
what
our
attrition
rate
really
is
so
yeah
retirements,
but
we
do
keep
that
data
separately,
so
that
is
something
we
could
break
out
at
a
later
point.
It's
not
something!
We've
included
in
this
one.
Okay,
thank
you.
E
I
hit
too
many
buttons.
My
apologies
no
problem
same
thing.
We
have
the
four
month
moving
average
for
turtle
turnover
again
just
to
kind
of
look
at
the
trends.
Generally,
we
kind
of
see
the
white
line
non-sworn
trending
up
fairly
highly.
We
do
see
an
increase
for
the
blue
and
red
for
fire
and
police
coming
into
2021
the
2022,
but
on
their
trends,
are
holding
somewhat
stable
fire
seen
a
small
drop
over
the
last
couple
of
months.
E
Not
enough
to,
I
think,
really
build
any
assumptions
off
of,
but
potentially
stabilizing
non-sworn
we've
seen
a
small
drop
in
the
trend
over
the
last
couple
months,
but
that
is
consistent
with
what
we
see
every
year
and
perfect.
Thank
you
and
so
the
sort
of
caution
there
is.
Let's
see
if
I
can
get
this
right.
E
No,
it
doesn't
show
up.
So
while
we've
seen
a
drop
in
that
kind
of
white
line,
if
you
look
at
each
year,
which
is
separated
by
the
black
lines,
there's
always
a
small
drop
before
we
see
that
trend
kind
of
go
up
much
more
aggressively
as
we
reach
sort
of
the
summer
months,
so
we're
seeing
our
turnover
come
down
a
little
bit
on
the
trend.
But
if
that
spike
happens
it
has
an
essentially
every
year,
we're
not
quite
sure
exactly
where
that's
going
to
end
us
at
to
try
to
get
to
that
assumption.
D
E
E
D
E
So
for
turnover
we
actually
don't
count
seasonal
employees,
okay,
because
we
know
that
they're
going
to
be
leaving
coming
for
turnover.
We
essentially
are
only
talking
about
regular
full-time
and
part-time
positions.
The
position
has
been
budgeted
year-round.
Essentially,
so
it's
someone
that
we
would
expect
to
be
sort
of
permanently
working
for
us.
E
So
I've
got
a
few
more
slides
on
the
exit
surveys
that
I
send
out
and
we'll
be
able
to
sort
of
get
into
that
more
detail
as
well.
E
So,
to
sort
of
look
at
our
turtle
total
turnover.
What
we've
done
on
this
slide
is
we've
looked
at
through
april
of
each
year,
so
as
much
of
an
apples
to
apples
comparison
as
we
can
so
for
2014.
What
was
the
turnover
from
january
through
april
2015
2016
all
the
way
up
to
this
year
this
year,
the
the
trend
numbers
are
definitely
going
up
a
little
higher
than
expected.
Last
year,
our
total
total
turnover
was
not
great.
Through
april
we
saw
about
a
seven
percent
turnover
and
non-sworn.
E
So
far
this
year
we've
seen
9.5,
so
we've
actually
lost
about
10
percent
of
our
non-sworn
employees.
Just
through
the
end
of
last
month.
We
also
see
fire
and
police
turnover
trending
up
slightly
as
well.
E
Of
people,
so
non-sworn
is
our
single
biggest
group,
so
fire
accounts
for
approximately
330
employees.
Police
accounts
for
approximately
440
employees
and
non-sworn
is
approximately
say,
nine
to
900
to
a
thousand
employees.
Okay,
thank
you.
E
So,
with
the
turtle
total
turnover
through
april,
we've
tried
to
build
out
some
predictive
models,
but
frankly
the
last
two
years
have
trashed
them,
but
historically
we
have
seen
that
january
through
april
turnover
accounts
for
about
28
of
of
our
total
turnover
through
the
year.
If
that
remains
true
for
this
year,
fire
and
police
turnover
will
hit
about
13,
which
is
definitely
trending
higher,
not
as
bad
as
they've
seen,
but
I'm
worse
than
the
last
couple
years,
but
our
non-sworn
turnover,
if
this
trend
holds,
will
hit
approximately
33
percent.
E
So
all
to
say,
we
don't
know
what
the
rest
of
the
year
is
going
to
bring.
Our
predictive
models
have
pretty
much
blown
themselves
to
pieces
over
the
last
couple
years,
but
if
that
general
trend
holds
it's
definitely
going
to
be
a
very
high
rate
of
turnover
higher
than
we've
ever
seen,
and
I
also
just
wanted
to
note
that
with
this
as
part
of
the
budget,
for
this
year,
we
passed
one
of
the
biggest
pay
increases
we
have
in
recent
years.
We
passed
that
pay
increase
and
frankly
our
turnover
went
up.
E
C
E
I
don't
think
that
it
necessarily
would
to
your
comment
about
potentially
training
people
to
leave.
We
do
have
some
stats
on
when
people
are
leaving
beyond
just
how
many.
So
I
think
that
might
speak
to
a
little
bit
about
sort
of
that
trend
on
people,
but
otherwise,
I
think
even
sort
of
dragging
the
trend
out
on
just
the
turnover
would
necessarily
make
a
big
difference,
but
we
can
show
you
exactly
kind
of
when
we're
losing
people.
C
Well,
because
that
am
I
jumping
ahead
to
presentation.
Yes,
so
all
right,
good,
that's,
okay,
I'll,
be
quiet
and
listen.
E
So
our
next
slide,
so
we
have
years
of
service
at
separation.
So
this
is
us
looking
at.
When
are
we
losing
those
people?
E
Because
if
we
included
every
year,
we'd
have
a
lot
of
lines,
and
this
chart
wouldn't
make
a
lot
of
sense.
We've
consolidated
it
down
into
five
major
groups.
We
have
zero
to
four
years,
which
is
the
greater
silver
line.
We
have
five
to
nine
years,
which
is
the
yellow.
We
have
10
to
14
in
green
15
and
19
in
purple,
20
to
24
in
blue
and
25,
plus
in
orange
kind
of
as
we'd
expect.
The
biggest
groups
tend
to
be
those
with
the
fewest
years
of
service.
E
The
middle
third
is
just
the
police
department
and
the
final
third
is
just
our
non-sworn
employees.
So
for
fire
we
see
kind
of
early
on
2011
2012.
They
were
actually
losing
more
than
80
of
their
employees
in
the
zero
to
four
years,
but
that
number
has
kind
of
turned
it
back
down
for
police.
We
kind
of
see
a
relatively
stable
trend.
2021
dropped
a
little
bit,
but
the
numbers
went
back
up
for
our
non-sworn.
We
see
again
somewhat
a
stable
trend
over
the
last,
probably
five
or
six
years
where
so.
F
E
That's
correct
and
we
also
think
sort
of
beyond
that
firearm
police
sees
lower
levels
of
that.
We
think
potentially,
because
fire
and
police
both
have
a
pay
plan
which
incentivizes
them,
where
they're
getting
more
pay
increases
in
their
first
years.
As
you
get
more
seasoned
in
your
career
as
police
or
fire,
the
movement
slows
down
a
little
bit
for
non-sworn.
We,
unfortunately
don't
have
anything
of
that
nature,
so
they
come
in.
B
E
E
So
for
our
next
part,
so
we
have
our
exit
survey
results
to
make
it
somewhat
of
a
comparison.
We
have
2021
as
compared
to
2022.
E
Generally,
we
see
2021
pay
room
for
growth,
family
circumstances,
we're
all
pretty
major
categories.
I'm
going
into
2022.
We
see
that
pays
actually
jumped
out
ahead
by
about
15
room
for
growth
is
still
a
major
component,
but
not
as
much
family
circumstance
is
still
kind
of
up
there.
We
see
an
increase
in
work,
environment
and
conditions,
which
is
essentially
around
coworker
or
supervisory
relations,
and
then
we
also
see
a
small
object
in
schedule
and
the
commute
but
and
diving
deeper
into
those
those
results.
E
E
So
they're
allowed
to
pick
multiple
ones
yeah
and
then,
after
they've
selected
those
responses,
we
ask
them
to
rank
them,
so
our
next
slide
will
actually
have
the
ranking
of
okay.
So
if
you've
picked
your
top
three,
which
of
those
actually
led
you
most
to
leaving
versus
which
one
kind
of
had
the
least
impact.
E
B
E
Something
to
do
with
affordability
now
it
may
very
well,
especially
going
back
to
our
first
slide
about
percentage
of
employees
living
in
the
city,
for
example,
just
off
the
top
of
my
head.
When
we
were
reviewing
the
commute
too
long
responses.
One
of
those
was
somebody
who
lived
in
latin.
D
Also,
on
a
commute
too
long,
you
had
said
something
about
the
the
majority
of
that
was
people
that
were
working
set
times.
So
I'm
assuming
you're
saying
those
may
be
people
that
are
in
rush
hour,
traffic
back
and
forth.
E
Both
ways,
potentially
it's
also
to
address
the
schedule
piece.
So,
for
example,
some
of
our
exit
surveys
for
commute
and
schedule
were
our
mechanics,
but
they
only
work.
Two
two
shifts
essentially,
and
so
their
hours
are
very
specific,
as
well
as
some
of
our
more
safety
sensitive
positions
and,
for
example,
the
police
department,
where
they
have
some
24-hour
positions.
Where
the
schedule
is,
I
mean
24
hours
a
day,
seven
days
a
week,
including
holidays.
So
those
positions
just
don't
lend
themselves
to
necessarily
providing
any
flexibility
for
commute
or
schedule.
Gotcha.
Okay,
thanks.
A
A
If
people
are
staying
10
plus
years
and
going
into
a
career,
it
would
make
sense
that
there
would
be
higher
turnover
at
zero
to
four
if
we
have
employees
that
are
staying
longer
and
not
turning
over
in
those
positions.
So
it's
it's
kind
of
a
circular
logic
like
I.
I
don't
know
that
there's
necessarily
a
way
to
address
that,
because
if
we
start
seeing
higher
turnover
in
longer
tenured
people
and
lower
turnover
in
the
in
the
shorter
tenure,
that's
not
necessarily
the
inverse
thing
that
you
want
to
happen
either.
That's.
E
Correct
the
trend
is
very
consistent
with
what
we'd
expect
people
that
are
going
to
leave.
Are
it's
generally
around
engagement
in
your
first
four
years,
you're
going
to
be
less
engaged,
you
might
look
for
other
positions
and
then,
as
you
stay
longer,
you're
more
engaged.
You
are
more
likely
to
remain
here,
especially
with
some
of
the
city
benefits
and
the
pension
that
we
have.
There
is
an
incentive
once
you've
been
at
a
certain
point,
to
kind
of
keep
that
benefit
available
to
you
and
keep
working,
but
that's
yeah.
E
The
trend
is
definitely
consistent,
but
when
you
take
that
trend
plus
sort
of
our
increase
in
turnover,
we
potentially
reach
a
point
where
we're
going
through
so
many
people
in
the
zero
to
four
years
that
not
as
many
people
are
making
it
longer
and,
as
you
mentioned,
is
there.
E
E
They
don't
really
look
at
tenure
per
se,
just
kind
of
that
overall
turnover
number
in
previous
years.
The
average
would
have
been
about
10,
so
we
were.
We
were
a
little
above
average
before
the
last
couple
years.
Things
have
gotten
a
little
wild
and
crazy.
I
can't
say
exactly
what
those
numbers
are
off
the
top
of
my
head,
but
I
think
generally,
a
lot
of
industries
have
seen
an
increase
in
turnover
over
the
last
probably
two
years
and
then.
B
E
Is
correct,
however,
so
I
also
have
our
next
slide
where
we
asked
about
the
rankings
which
will
tie
into
this
a
little
bit
so
after
we
ask
what
your
reasons
for
leaving
are.
We
ask
you
to
rank
them,
essentially,
which
ones
are
most,
which
ones
are
least
the
bigger
takeaway
from
this
one
is
essentially
that
pay
essentially
broke
out
a
bigger
lead,
so
we
see
in
2021
pay
and
room
for
growth.
Family
circumstances
are
all
relatively
close,
we're
kind
of
within
one
margin
of
each
other,
but
for
2022.
E
Essentially,
pay
became
such
a
higher
ranking
issue
that
it's
now
essentially
kind
of
two
and
a
half
margins
ahead.
So
it's
essentially
a
weighted
method
as
far
as
the
pay
impacting
the
turnover.
To
be
frank,
we
would
have
expected
with
the
pay
increase
that
especially
looking
at
that
kind
of
january,
through
april
turnover
that
we
might
have
at
least
plateaued.
E
E
That
is
true.
We
do
have
some
numbers,
so
this
is
all
building
up
to
our
compensation
survey.
Okay,.
E
E
So
we
switched
to
a
new
applicant
tracking
system
which
is
providing
us
a
lot
more
data
than
we
used
to
have
so
we're
able
to
see
for
the
jobs
that
we
post,
how
many
people
are
actually
viewing
those
jobs,
and
we
can
compare
that
to
how
many
applications
we
received
to
get
a
number
that
we
call
a
conversion
rate
which
is
really
just
the
percentage
of
people
who
applied
for
the
job.
After
looking
at
the
job,
a
general
industry
target
was
about
10
percent
before
the
last
few
years.
E
The
last
couple
years
have
brought
that
turned
a
little
down,
so
we'd
almost
expect
anywhere
kind
of
between
three
percent
or
ten
percent
would
be
a
good
number.
Ten
percent
would
be
one
out
of
every
ten
people
who
come
looking
at
your
job,
decide
that
yeah
I'd
like
to
apply
for
this,
which
we
think
is
a
decent
number.
However,
we're
averaging
essentially
over
the
last
year
at
about
a
1.25
conversion
rate
for
the
last
two
quarters,
the
number
has
gone
up
slightly
so
for
2021.
E
We
were
closer
to
one
for
2022
so
far,
we're
coming
a
little
closer
to
two
percent,
but
that
still
essentially
means
for
us
to
get
one
applicant.
50
people
have
to
look
at
that
job,
which
is
a
little
lower
than
we
would
necessarily
like.
E
So
the
the
big
chart
at
the
right
has
our
bottom
10
jobs
and
our
top
10
jobs
as
far
as
conversion
rate
this
year.
Just
to
give
you
an
idea
of
where
we're
attracting
candidates.
E
Bottom
jobs
tend
to
be
trades
positions,
engineering
positions,
also
some
recreation
positions-
they
just
don't
quite
seem
as
popular
as
they
used
to,
unfortunately
so
kind
of
that
number
one
bottom
job:
the
trade
specialist
in
the
fire
department.
We
had
891
job
views
and
one
person
decided
to
apply
for
that
job,
which
is
not
ideal,
and
we
see
that
same
trend
through
a
lot
of
those
bottom
ten
positions,
but
on
the
more
positive
side,
our
top
10
jobs.
E
We
have
a
lot
of
more
administrative
positions,
they
tend
to
average
a
little
over
four
and
a
half
percent,
so
we
had
an
admin
assistant
in
public
service
that
actually
had
a
conversion
rate
of
eight
percent.
So
we
had
31
people
out
of
390
views,
which
is
closer
to
kind
of
what
we
would
want
to
see,
making
sure
that
we've
got
a
very
robust
candidate
pool
and
that
we're
hiring
really
the
best
quality
employees
that
we
can.
E
However,
for
the
top
ten
jobs,
you'll
see
that
number
conversion
rate
drops
somewhat
precipitously.
So
we
start
at
that
almost
eight
percent,
but
by
the
time
we've
reached
number
ten,
which
is
our
summer
resilience.
Intern
we've
dropped
to
four
and
a
half
percent.
E
So
the
numbers
come
down
relatively
quickly
where
we
were
talking
about,
maybe
that
three
to
ten
percent
rate
had
we
hit
a
five
percent
conversion
rate
say
we
had
made
it
somewhere
in
the
middle.
E
We
would
have
had
a
approximately
3
300,
more
applications
to
review
for
our
positions,
and
so
far
in
2022,
we've
made
167
job
offers,
but
have
received
18
rejections,
which
is
not
something
we
used
to
track
just
because
I
don't
think
it
happened
quite
that
often,
but
that
puts
us
at
about
an
eleven
percent
rejection
rate
and
one
last
point
to
make,
especially
on
those
bottom
jobs,
we're
looking
at
positions
where
we're
only
getting
one
or
two
applicants.
E
E
We
believe
so
so
this
is
all
led
up
to
our
compensation
survey,
which,
for
a
little
background,
we
did
a
very
sort
of
abbreviated
compensation
survey,
as
we
were
looking
at
the
budget
last
year,
which
led
us
to
believe
that
we
needed
to
do
a
much
more
thorough
one.
E
So
we've
been
combining
all
of
that
data
and
just
essentially
see
how
we
rank.
How
do
we
stack
up
so
this
first
slide
is
for
our
non-sworn
positions.
The
chart
on
the
left
is
the
base
result,
so
just
purely
dollar
for
dollar
and
the
percentage
essentially
tells
you
where
we
fell
or
could
be
read
as
how
many
places
essentially
pay
higher
than
us
on
average.
E
E
Unfortunately,
those
ahead
of
us
include
a
lot
of
our
local
area,
so
we
have
mount
pleasant:
saint
andrews,
north
charleston,
the
water
system,
the
school
district,
the
housing
authority
and
the
county
who's
really
technically.
At
our
same
number,
however,
especially
with
a
lot
of
the
talk
about
cost
of
living,
we
wanted
to
add
a
cost
of
living
factor
into
this.
So
what
we
did
was
if
you're
familiar
with
mit's
living
wage
study
they
updated
in
the
first
quarter
of
every
year.
So
it's
relatively
up
to
date.
E
So
if
the
city
of
charleston,
if
the
living
wage
were
say
a
dollar
but
the
living
wage
and
somewhere
else
was
99
cents,
we
know
that
okay,
we
their
pay
essentially
is
one
percent.
Better.
A
dollar
goes
a
little
bit
further.
So
we
built
that
comparison
out
and
applied
it
to
the
wages
that
everyone
reported
to
us,
which
gives
us
the
chart
on
the
right,
which
is
including
that
cost
of
living
factor
which
takes
us
from
51st,
essentially
to
69th
in
the
bottom.
Five
and
the
cost
of
living
factor
is
something
new.
A
But
one
of
the
the
things
I'd
be
curious
to
see-
and
I
know
we
do
not
have
that
information
currently,
but
one
is
their
city
budgets
two
would
be
eventually
the
percent
of
the
budget
spent
on
life,
safety
in
police
and
fire
or
ems,
if
that's
included
in
there,
but
also
if
they
have
the
ability
to
create
taxes
like
do
they
have
taxing
authority,
because
one
of
the
issues
that
we
run
into
year
after
year
after
year,
when
we
keep
talking
about
the
budget,
is
that
we're
hemmed
in
in
what
we
can
do
like?
A
We
can't
create
a
new
tax.
The
legislature
does
not
give
us
that
authority
and
so
we're
and
then
we're
even
capped
on
the
amount
of
property
tax
that
we
can
raise
in
terms
of
the
millage.
So
the
ability
to
create
revenue
is
severely
restricted,
and
so
I'd
be
curious
to
see
for
these
cities
that
we're
getting
compared
against
do
they
have
an
easier
time
raising
their
pay
because
they
have
the
ability
to
create
additional
revenue
sources
as
a
part
of
supplementing
their
budgets.
E
You're
correct,
I
definitely
do
not
have
that
information
available
today,
but
I
will
do
just
want
to
point
out
that,
while
we
do
have
some
organizations
sort
of
outside
of
sort
of
our
local
area
in
south
carolina,
the
majority
of
our
responses
are
from
within
the
state
of
south
carolina
and
generally
are
other
cities
as
well.
So
we
try
to
temper
some
of
those
unknowns
by
keeping
our
focus
a
little
central,
but
we
can
do
some
work
on
looking
into
some
of
those
other
cities
and
see,
there's
definitely
a
lot
of
differences.
E
F
So,
ryan,
I
understand
this
is
maybe
the
first
year
you
try
to
filter
in
this
cost
of
living
factor,
but
I
must
just
say,
looking
from
the
city
of
charleston
and
charlton
county
being
together
over
there
at
51,
and
then
you
go
to
the
right
in
charleston
county.
It's
still
at
51,
we've
dropped
down
to
69..
F
You
know
I
I
I
guess
you've
got
different
numbers
for
cost
of
living
between
the
city
and
the
county
and
and
then
you've
got
only
35
percent
of
our
employees
actually
live
in
the
city.
So
if
we
had
an
employee
that
lived
in
hollywood
somewhere
out
in
charleston
county,
my
inference
would
be
there's
there's
not
that
kind
of
differential,
or
am
I
just
reading
too
much
into
that.
E
Now
and
I'll
double
check
the
charleston
county
number,
because
from
what
I
remember,
we
used
essentially
the
same
number,
because
we
were
using
either
county
level
or
metro
area
to
try
to
normalize
those
numbers
as
much
as
we
could
so
pretty
much
everything
in
our
local
region
really
shouldn't
have
moved
that
much
or
at
least
kind
of
moved.
Similarly
to
us
right
I'll,
have
to
double
check
and
see
what
happened
with
the
county's
number
to
where
it
didn't
change.
Quite
as
much.
F
E
F
E
County
was
one
of
the
last
numbers
we
received,
so
we
were
kind
of
struggling
to
get
them
in
there
I'll
double
check
to
see
what
would
happen
with
that
number
all
right.
Thank
you.
E
Very
preliminary
ones
nothing
in
as
much
depth,
but
when
we
look
at
some
of
the
compensation
one
of
the
issues
we've
kind
of
run
into,
especially
as
we're
attracting
applicants
is
frankly,
especially
if
you
get
kind
of
to
the
lower
half
of
our
employees
they're.
Frankly,
just
not
as
interested
in
the
benefits
package
and
the
selling
point
to
them
is
the
dollar
amount.
What
is
it
going
to
be
worth
to
get
them
through
the
door?
E
B
E
So
next
up
we
have
our
sworn
summary.
We
have
it
broken
out
by
police
and
fire
and
we'll
also
have
some
examples
of
their
pay
plans
to
sort
of
refresh
everyone's
memory
on
what
those
look
like.
But
the
plans
are
essentially
built
around
the
bachelor's
degree
level
as
kind
of
the
midpoint.
So
we
compared
both
the
base
level,
which
is
your
high
school
education
to
the
bachelor's
degree
level.
E
We
see
on
the
police
side
we're
doing
reasonably
well
we're
essentially
in
the
top
third
fire,
we're
doing
a
little
bit
lower.
So
those
are
the
two
charts
on
the
right
hand,
side
we're
still
doing.
Okay,
we're
at
least
in
the
top
half
versus
where
we
kind
of
compared
where
we
were
with
our
non-sworn,
but
definitely
still
a
couple
of
locales
that
are
slightly
ahead
of
us
on
those.
E
Doing
much
better
correct
yeah,
at
least
in
our
local
area,
we're
still
reasonably
competitive.
We
actually
had
some
issues
with
some
of
our
fellow
local
agencies
wanting
to
respond
to
the
sworn
part
of
the
survey,
because
we
were
already
potentially
poaching
some
of
their
employees
and
they
didn't
want
to
necessarily
make
that
problem
worse,
but
but
we
still
are
falling
behind
in
a
couple
areas
we
see
greenville
savannah
are
both
sort
of
managing
pretty
well.
E
But
yes,
seeing
sort
of
greenville
and
savannah
slightly
ahead,
but
yeah
we're
doing
a
reasonably
good
job.
Keeping
up
in
the
local
area.
E
For
our
sworn
employees,
we
also
included
a
number
of
questions
about
the
structure
of
their
plan.
So,
as
we
were
discussing,
they
have
a
somewhat
more
progressive
pay
plan.
They
have
steps,
they
have
incentives
that
keep
them
moving
forward
through
their
plans.
I'd
show
you
the
same
thing
for
non-sworn,
but
unfortunately,
since
we
don't
have
one
there's
really
nothing
there
for
it,
but
as
far
as
the
swarm
plan
structure,
the
top
half
on
the
left-hand
side
is
the
fire
department.
E
The
first
two
columns
are
the
average
that
we
see
from
other
from
other
agencies.
The
last
two
columns
are
for
the
city,
so
growth
potential
is
essentially
how
far
you
can
go
from
the
bottom
to
the
top
for
the
rank
that
you're
in
we'll
use
firefighter.
As
an
example,
we
see
an
average
growth
potential
of
about
40
percent,
with
an
average
non-cost
of
living
growth
per
year
of
about
five
percent.
E
So
a
lot
of
agencies,
if
you're
a
firefighter
you're,
getting
some
kind
of
steps,
maybe
every
year
or
two,
it
averages
about
five
percent
a
year
and
would
take
you
to
about
40
percent
more
than
your
pay
for
the
city.
We
have
options
that
get
you
up
to
70
percent
and
potentially
gives
you
a
non-cost
of
living
growth
of
up
to
nine
percent.
E
E
E
E
So
if
you
have
a
bachelor's
degree,
you
make
14
more
than
somebody
who
has
a
high
school
diploma,
just
on
the
basis
of
education
alone.
In
addition,
fire
has
an
additional
7
incentive
for
being
a
paramedic.
E
We
don't
see
that
level
of
incentive.
Among
many
other
agencies,
the
closest
we
get
is
greenville,
who
also
provides
a
max
incentive
of
30,
but
it's
based
on
six
different
types
of
incentives,
and
there
are
things
that
frankly,
you'd
be
unlikely
to
be
able
to
check
all
six
boxes.
E
E
E
E
Essentially,
you
have
five
education
steps
and
a
lot
of
ranks.
You
maybe
only
have
four
or
five
or
six
actual
steps
within
the
rank,
but
then
the
education
is
worth
seven
percent,
whereas
the
steps
with
the
exception
of
firefighter
are
worth
five
percent.
So
we've
really
incentivized
education,
even
more
so
than
essentially
steps
in
your
current
role
and
even
more
so
than
a
promotion
up
to
the
next
role
in
a
lot
of
cases,
which
tends
to
also
only
be
worth
five
percent.
E
So
the
way
we've
set
up
the
plans,
essentially
there's
a
bigger
incentive
to
get
say
an
associate's
or
a
bachelor's
degree
than
necessarily
to
get
a
promotion
on
the
fire
side.
The
colors
are
a
little
different
because
their
plan
is
a
little
different,
the
green
steps
they
actually
get
every
six
months
and
the
orange
and
blue
they
get
every
year.
E
Essentially,
what
all
that
means
is
for
a
police
officer,
a
newly
hired
police
officer
can
reach
police
officer
step
three,
which
is
the
last
step
they
can
achieve
in
about
four
years,
earning
an
additional
22
percent,
which
is
about
five
and
a
half
percent
annually
over
where
they
started
for
police
officers.
Advancement
to
senior
police
officer
is
a
competitive
promotional
process.
You
have
to
test,
you
have
to
go
through
the
process
to
get
there
for
firefighter.
E
You
come
out
of
the
academy
on
step
one
after
six
months.
You
reach
step
two.
After
six
months,
you
reach
step
three
step.
One
to
step.
Two
is
a
ten
percent
increase
instead
of
five,
as
it
is
throughout
the
rest
of
the
plan
and
then
from
there.
You
can
essentially
test
to
become
an
assistant
engineer,
but
the
test
is
learning
to
drive
one
of
the
engines
or
apparatus.
E
There's
no
other
requirement.
It's
a
non-competitive
process.
Theoretically,
every
single
one
of
our
firefighters
could
become
an
assistant
engineer
and
then
each
subsequent
assistant
engineer
step
takes
about
a
year
so
where
we
saw
that
the
firefighters
across
the
department
had
this
70
kind
of
growth
potential.
E
E
So
the
green
and
blue
steps
are
more
tenure
based
the
orange
steps
are
a
little
bit
more
performance
based,
but
they're
almost
more
achievement
based.
So,
for
example,
like
assistant
engineer,
the
orange
steps,
one
of
the
achievements
would
be
learning
to
drive
a
new
type
of
vehicle,
and
I
think
potentially-
and
don't
quote
me
on
this-
maybe
20
hours
of
additional
training
for
a
police
officer,
senior
police
officer
to
go
from
step
two
to
step
three.
E
They
actually
have
to
wait
two
years
and
have
to
complete
some
number
of
training
or
special
assignments
or
some
additional
achievements
to
qualify
for
that
next
step.
So
we
have
a
mix
of
both
peer
sort
of
tenure
base,
as
well
as
a
little
bit
more
achievement
based,
and
this
is
not
applicable
to
nonsense,
correct
yeah.
This
is
just
police
and
fire.
Non-Sworn
has
frankly
nothing
like
this.
E
I
do
especially
as
we
look
at
that
trend
of
when
people
are
leaving,
and
we
see
that
non-sworn
has
a
trend,
almost
20
higher
for
that
zero
to
four
years.
If
we
had
more
incentive
to
keep
people,
if
you
had
an
incentive
to
stay,
if
you
saw
that
growth
or
advancement,
even
in
your
same
position,
that
does
provide
you
an
incentive
to
stay
or,
at
the
very
least,
provide
you
an
incentive
not
to
look.
B
E
I
would
argue
yes,
there's
a
lot
of
logistics
around
building
a
sort
of
step-based
plan
that
really
works
in
a
way.
That's
meaningful.
E
We
see
a
lot
of
organizations
that
have
step-based
plans
where
either
it
just
sort
of
becomes
de
facto
or
it
becomes
sort
of
too
complicated
to
use
so
there's
there
would
be
some
work
in
setting
up
such
a
plan,
but
there
definitely
would
be
value
to
one
it's
something
that
we
have
talked
about
looking
into
bringing
proposals
forward
in
the
next
few
years,
but
frankly,
at
this
point,
as
we'll
see
from
the
survey,
especially
our
where
our
starting
pay
is
at
in
general,
is
probably
our
bigger
concern
versus
really
having
that
step
based
plan.
E
Ideally,
we
would
love
to
have
that
kind
of
plan,
because
we
think
it
would
definitely
incentivize
people.
It
allows
us
to
keep
that
institutional
knowledge
of
people
versus
having
departments
where
you're
losing
you
know.
We
have
some
departments
to
lose
approximately
30
percent
of
people
a
year.
So
if
you're
just
going
through
that
many
people
you're
really
reducing
the
numbers
left.
Who
have
that
knowledge
that
you
really
can
apply
out
in
the
field.
F
E
Sure
so
really
both
our
police
fire
and
a
lot
of
our
non-smart
employees
are
essentially
just
hourly
until
you
reach
really
a
certain
level
where
you
become
more
salaried
or
an
exempt
employee.
As
far
as
the
federal
labor
standards
act
goes,
that's
the
real
sort
of
dividing
line,
police
and
fire
have
some
other
rules
around
it.
They
reach
overtime
at
different
levels,
things
of
that
nature,
but
essentially
for
a
lot
of
our
non-sworn
employee.
They
work
your
standard
40
hour
shift
and
their
hourly
rate
is
based
on
that
police.
E
Their
hourly
rate
is
based
on
the
similar,
a
similar
setup,
essentially
2080
hours
a
year
40
hour
week.
That's
what
their
salary
is
based
on
for
our
firefighters.
They
work
a
slightly
different
schedule
because
they
work
24
hours
on
and
essentially
48
hours
off,
so
they're
working
a
full
day
with
two
days
off,
assuming
full
staffing
so
for
their
pay.
Their
hourly
rates
do
appear
to
be
a
little
lower,
but
essentially
we're
paying
them
that
hourly
rate
for
the
full
24
hours
that
they're
on
shift.
E
So,
no
matter
what
they're
doing,
if
you
are
on
shift
you're
receiving
your
full
hourly
rate
due
to
the
nature
of
our
schedules,
the
24
hours
on
48
off
every.
I
forget
the
exact
interval,
but
essentially
every
couple
pay
periods
you
have
built
in
overtime
because
the
overtime
trigger
hits
in
a
way
that,
if
you
work
say
three
shifts
that
week,
you
are
guaranteed
to
make
some
amount
of
overtime
from
that.
E
E
If
you
worked
all
of
your
shifts
to
try
to
give
you
as
close
of
an
estimate
as
possible
of
kind
of
what
you
could
expect
from
a
year,
so
these
numbers
for
fire
and
same
for
police
assumes
that
you
work
every
shift
that
you're
scheduled
for
so
at
the
end
of
the
year.
D
Brian,
for
for
just
the
regular
firefighter
level,
we've
got
four
steps
here.
Do
we
do
we
lose
firefighters
after
they
get
to
that?
Fourth
step
that
may
not
want
to
become
or
may
not
want
to
get
that
engineer
position.
I
guess
I'm
asking:
should
there
be
more
steps
there?
I
you
know
it's
kind
of
my
question.
E
I
don't
have
that
data
available,
but
we
would
generally
expect
that
we
probably
might
see
some
of
that.
E
However,
as
of
I
think
about
maybe
four
or
five
years
ago,
the
firefighter
pay
plan
actually
did
have
greater
steps
at
that
base
level,
but
the
fire
administration
at
the
time
actually
switched
that
around
and
wanted
to
very
pointedly
sort
of
incentivize
more
people
moving
to
assist
an
engineer
because
we
wanted
more
drivers,
and
so
we
we,
we
have
tried
having
more
steps
and
they
had
kind
of
very
pointedly
moved
away
from
having
that
to
kind
of
incentivize
this.
E
I
think
it's
definitely
something
we'd
love
to
look
into
more
and
see
if
there's
a
potential.
D
E
Absolutely
and
that
kind
of
ties
into,
I
think
our
kind
of
conversation
about
the
having
more
of
a
step
based
plan
in
general,
not
just
for
police
and
fire,
but
also
for
our
non-sworn,
because
there's
there's
a
distinct
chance
that
we
have
a
lot
of
people
who
are
very
good
at
the
one
thing
they're
doing,
don't
really
want
to
be
anything
different
than
that
and
we're
not
necessarily
incentivizing
them
terribly
well
to
stay
fire.
E
Yeah,
and
so
we
do
have
a
recommendation
that
in
previous
years,
we've
kind
of
done,
pay,
adjustments
and
coal
is
rolled
into
one.
One
of
our
recommendations
is
going
to
be
to
split
that
out
and
pass
a
true
cost
of
living
increase
based
on
some
defined
measure
like
cpi
or
some
other
index,
and
we
would
take
the
cost
of
living
increase
and
recommend
essentially
applying
that
to
every
employee.
E
B
Then
pulleys
and
well
fully
think
fire
okay
would
get
the
cola
plus
they
would
normally
get
through
their
steps.
That's
correct!
Okay!
The
second
thing
is
wow.
That's
a
lot.
Steps
are
really
not
based
on
performance.
B
What
I
mean
by
that
satisfactory
excellent
outstanding
because,
as
as
I've
been
exposed
to
on
performance-based
system,
if
you're
marginal,
no,
I
don't
care
if
you've
been
in
10
years.
Performance
is
not
acceptable.
B
However,
if
you,
if
you
were
performing
an
outstanding
level
in
some
cases,
you
can
go
two
steps
on
three
steps,
so
it's
very
very
performance
based
as
opposed
to
tenure
base
or
as
opposed
to.
I
just
got
another
degree.
I
just
got
it.
It's
all.
E
It's
all
performances
and
it
works
out
pretty
good.
E
We
would
definitely
like
to
move
in
that
direction
and
for
a
time
the
city
did
have
some
performance
evaluations,
but
we
really
didn't
have
money
tied
to
it,
especially
among
non-sworn,
and
so
it's
kind
of
dwindled
to
the
point
where
we
only
have
maybe
select
divisions
who
are
really
still
engaging
in
that
performance.
Evaluation
process
and.
B
Not
the
labor
but
haven't
I
seen
somewhere
where
there
are
performance,
I
guess
indicators,
okay
by
departments
and
based
upon
those
performance
indicators.
The
mayor
assessed
xyz
moving
forward.
E
So
our
our
budget
division
has
essentially
their
key
performance
indicators,
kpis
or
whatever
else
they
might
call
them
now,
which
looks
at
some
of
those
measurable
statistics
by
department
or
division.
So
they
definitely
look
at
some
performance
measures,
but
that
it's
definitely
much
more,
at
least
as
I'm
familiar
with
it
more
sort
of
division,
department
based
goals,
rather
than
individual
personal.
E
B
C
Mr
chairman,
yes,
you
know
I've
been
in
conversations
with,
I
guess
some
of
the
people
with
the
firemen's
union.
If
they
were
to
look
at
this
chart.
I
believe
those
numbers
are
a
little
bit
different
and
obviously
the
facts
are
what
they
are.
I
know
you're
dealing
with
the
facts.
How
do
we
get
to
the
point
to
where
what
they're
showing
on
their
on
their
grid
is
what
we
have
here?
C
Because
you
can't
have
two
sets
of
facts.
You
know
nine
times,
nines
is
81
and
I
don't
care
who
12
times
12
is
144,
so
I
don't
care
who,
whose
math
you
use
eventually
come
back
to
the
numerical
effect
and
they're
going
to
be.
I
think
the
difference
that
they're
talking
about
somehow
we
have
to
work
towards
that.
Hopefully,
what
we
see
here
is
being
the
same
that
they're
showing
there.
C
For
example,
they
say
when
they
go
into
you
get
recruited,
you
go
in,
you
come
out
and
somehow
you
get
a
paid
decrease.
I
kind
of
found
that
hard
to
believe
you
go
in
untrained.
You
come
out
with
some
training
and
you
get
a
paid
decrease.
C
So
that's
some
of
the
that's
some
of
the
feedback
that
we're
getting
is
counsel
people
and,
quite
frankly,
I
don't
really
know
the
facts
on
that
and
instead
of
having
a
chinese
wall
between
two
bidding
factions,
one
thing
I
have
to
give
them
credit
they've
been
very
respectful
when
they
come
to
city
council
to
air
their
concern.
C
They
don't
come
and
blast
people
out
and
obviously
we
say
we're
going
to
work
to
try
to
help
them,
but
the
help
has
to
be
based
in
facts
and
and
not
a
this
is
my
terminology,
not
yours.
Anybody
around
the
table,
not,
I
guess,
but
you
know
it
shouldn't,
be
based
in
politics.
You
know
when
we
looked
at
the
grids
there
with
going
back,
you
know
comparing
us
to
other
cities.
You
know
one
of
the
things
I
wanted
to
kind
of
that
out.
We
could
do
that
later.
C
Is
you
know
the
cities?
The
mayor
alluded
to
that
the
ones
closest
to
us.
I
guess
in
in
particular,
north
charleston
mount
pleasant,
the
county,
and
so
that's
our
competition.
Basically,
the
immediate
competition
we're
the
largest
municipality
in
the
state.
We
have
the
largest
budget
of
any
city
in
the
state,
and
you
know.
B
C
Got
sandra's
psd,
paying
more
potentially
they're
their
employees
and
we
paid
out.
I
understand
they
got
a
small
number
of
people
and
that
could
potentially
skew
the
situation,
but
somehow
the
differences
and
what
they've
got
and
what
you're
showing
I'd
like
to
know
what
nuances,
maybe
they're
using
that
comes
up
with
the
numbers
they
come
up
with.
You
know
somebody
with
a
high
school
degree,
associate
degree,
bachelor's
degree
and
so
forth,
and
what
we're
showing,
because
the
way
I
look
at
it
should
be
the
same.
C
B
D
I
can,
I
think,
in
essence,
what
they're
saying
is
right,
councilmember
wearing
so
they
start
and
as
a
trainee.
They
make
a
certain
hourly
wage
when
they
come
in
as
a
firefighter
their
hourly
wage
does
go
down
so
in
essence,
they're
right.
However,
it's
based
on
the
number
of
hours
that
they're
working
so
the
difference
from
what
we're
calculating
what
they're
calculating
is
based
on
the
number
of
hours
that
they're
working
and
that's
why
we
have
differences.
D
D
They
have
their
long
shifts
their
short
shifts,
so
they
always
have
built-in
overtime
right
in
in
their
longer
shift.
They'll
have
built
in
over
time,
yes
and
then,
if
they
work
then
they'll
have
you
know
they
could
get
called
in
and
they
would
have
over
time
that
way
as
well,
but
they
have
their
long
shift,
which
they
always
have
built
in
over
time.
For
so
it's
just
a
calculation
is
very
complicated,
so
I
mean.
C
Does
everybody
what
I
mean
everybody
all
the
cities
in
particular
in
our
little
calendar,
they
calculate
it
the
same
way
we
do.
I
mean
why
is
it?
Why
is
the
calculation
complicated
and
why
can't
it
be
simplified.
D
Well,
that's
probably
what
we're
probably
going
to
try
to
work
towards,
but
yes
other
cities
do
not
do
it
necessarily
like
we
do
so
it's
just.
I
can't
answer
the
question
on
why
it
is
the
way
that
it
is.
It's
just
happened
over
time
and
kind
of
what
we've
all
inherited
here.
So
maybe
this
is
an
opportunity
for
us
to
look
at
all
of
this
differently
and
and
come
up
with
something
that's
less
complicated.
D
E
E
We
definitely
did
find,
as
we
looked
at
all
the
different
agencies,
that
it
was
a
grab
bag
of
numbers
of
how
people
estimated
their
annual
compensation.
The
way
that
we
estimate
the
their
annual
compensation
is,
we
have
their
schedules,
essentially
mapped
out.
We
know
how
many
hours
of
overtime
they
should
get.
So
we
think
this
does
give
a
pretty
it's
a
pretty
accurate
example.
Assuming
you
work
every
shift.
So
if
you
show
up
to
every
shift
that
you
work,
you
don't
pick
up
any
extra
shifts.
E
Your
numbers
should
fall
pretty
close
to
this,
but
I
will
say
because
of
the
vagaries
and
all
the
different
ways,
people
calculate
those
annual
rates.
Looking
at
all
the
different
agencies
for
the
sake
of
the
survey,
we
did,
we
looked
at
hourly
rates.
We
wanted
to
cut
through
whatever
crazy
calculations.
Different
agencies
were
doing,
because
it
was
a
difference
of
six
to
700
hours,
depending
on
who
you
asked,
but
for
the
sake
of
the
survey
we
asked
for
just
hourly
rate.
E
So
when
we
make
that
comparison,
we're
really
making
that
comparison,
that
that
happens
to
apples.
What
are
they
actually
making
per
hour
comparison?
Which
should
based
on
our
data
kind
of
get
them
closer
to,
where
they're
being
so
the
number
they've
been
using,
you
can
calculate
it
differently
depending
on.
E
B
E
Be
working,
I
believe
it's
2912
on
average
29
12
correct.
I
think
it's
actually.
If
you're
on
a
shorter
cycle,
you
would
work
2904
if
you're
on
a
longer
cycle,
you'd
work
2928,
but
it
averages
to
2912.
C
If
you
could
put
yourself
in
a
fireman's
position
play
devil's
advocate
knowing
what
you
know,
why
would
they
say
this
is
unfair.
C
I
mean
I
mean
I
just
want
to
hear
the
other
side
know
they're,
saying
that,
obviously
we
need
to
work
to
a
different
system.
I
understand
the
system
was
inherited,
but
if
it
ain't
working
we
got,
we
definitely
got
this
ground
farm.
I
mean
I
can't
come
and
go
from
my
house
to
my
office
without
seeing
signs
along
around
the
streets
that
say,
support
our
firefighters.
We
also
pulled
our
firefighters
there's
a
differential
in
math.
I
mean
why
do
I
have
to
work
overtime
to
make
my
numbers
look
like
this.
D
E
It's
over
time,
really
more
in
the
way
that
it's
kind
of
the
way
the
laws
defined
it.
We
essentially
just
have
them
working
their
regular
schedule.
It's
the
24
on
48
off
and
just
due
to
the
way
the
law
works,
some
amount
of
those
hours
might
be
over
time,
some
of
those
hours
might
not.
So
it's
not
that
we're
necessarily
saying
you
have
to
work
extra.
There
really
is
no
requirement
for
you
to
work
beyond
what
your
normal
schedule
would
be
to
reach
these
numbers
and.
C
Then
your
answer
to
the
myth.
When
the
man
asked
about
hours,
I
think,
on
the
annual
basis,
I
thought
I
heard
you
say
something
like
20
28
or
900
hours
a
year.
You
know
normal
2080,
you
know
40
hours
a
week.
I
understand
they
got
shifts
on
and
shifts
off,
but
you
know
40
hours
a
week
time.
52
weeks
is
2080
hours
a
year.
So
that's.
E
So
that
that
is
correct,
the
fire,
firefighters
definitely
work
more
hours,
but
we've
we've
essentially
tried
to
maintain
some
sense
of
balance
because
for
the
firefighters,
when
they're
on
shift,
we
have
a
lot
of
varying
expectations
for
them,
and
so
that's
where
they're
receiving
that
same
hourly
rate,
even
if
they're
doing
station
maintenance,
they
receive
that
same
hourly
rate.
If
again,
if
they're
lucky
enough
to
get
some
sleep
on
shift
they're,
getting
that
same
hourly
rate
for
literally
everything
they
do
in
that
24-hour
period,
essentially
we're.
E
If
you're
on
shift
in
your
office,
you
are
there
to
work
and
even
for
the
lunch
breaks,
we
don't
necessarily
cover
the
whole
launch,
whereas,
if
you're
a
firefighter
whatever
meal
breaks,
you
have
we're
paying
you
that
whole
time,
because
you
may
get
a
call
at
any
point.
So
there
are
some
differences.
The
firefighters
do
end
up,
essentially
on
shift
more
hours,
but
due
to
the
nature
of
their
shifts
and
what
they
might
be
doing.
You
might
see
some
differences
in
essentially
what
the
work
actually
being
performed
is.
C
Yeah,
but
I
mean
they
may
be
doing
that
work,
but
if
they
get
a
you
know
a
big
fire,
they
gotta
jump
to
the
call
to
action
right,
that's
correct
anyway,
if
the,
if
north
charleston's
doing
it
a
lot
differently
and
my
pleasant
doing
a
lot
differently,
I
don't
know
that
we
why
we
stay
with
this
whole,
whatever
system
that
we
inherited
that's
created,
creating
certainly
morale
problems
at
the
very
least.
B
E
There's
there's
a
couple
of
agencies
that
we
identified
that
kind
of
do
something
differently.
I
feel
like
recently.
We
heard
that
I
think
maybe
somerville
or
some
other
suburb
was
looking
at,
maybe
switching
to
a,
I
think,
a
48
on
96
off
schedule,
but
otherwise
most
agencies
are
working,
a
24
on
48
off
and
the
way
we
pay
them
is
based
on
the
flsa
and
we're
paying
essentially
exactly
the
way
the
law
dictates.
So
there's
really
not
a
lot
of
flexibility
there
as
to
how
other
agencies
are
actually
handling
that.
F
E
Once
we
get
to
the
recommendations,
we're
pretty
close
to
the
end
so
for
our
preliminary
recommendations,
so
we
do
see
some
definite
room
for
improvement,
particularly
among
some
of
our
starting
pay.
When
we
look
at
the
firefighter
rank
in
the
police
officer
rank,
so
our
first
recommendation
is
to
restructure
the
firefighter
steps
to
bring
that
step.
One
up
approximately
ten
percent
to
be
more
in
line
with
the
rest
of
the
fire
department
rank
comparisons.
E
E
Additionally,
we
see
a
similar
issue
in
the
police
officer
step
where
their
starting
pay
has
begun
to
drop,
as
other
agencies
have
increased
their
starting
pay
to
essentially
kind
of
keep
pace,
so
we
would
also
recommend
bringing
their
step
one
up
approximately
10
and
restructuring
their
ranks
to
manage
that
as
part
of
the
2023
budget.
E
E
We
saw
them
starting
at
a
range
anywhere
between
ninety
two
thousand
to
a
hundred
and
five
thousand,
so
our
highest
paid
position
technically
starts
anywhere
between
ten
and
fifteen
ten
and
twenty
thousand
dollars
below
what
other
agencies
might
be
paying
by
adding
additional
pay
grades.
We
think
we
can
restructure
some
of
our
higher
paying
positions
to
essentially
move
that
starting
pay
up,
without
necessarily
making
major
changes
to
the
positions,
but
at
least
giving
us
more
places
to
start
higher.
E
It
would,
but
I
think,
even
in
that
case,
we'd
still
recommend
at
least
adding,
probably
another
step
just
because
again,
as
we
look
at
some
of
these
places
when
you're
starting,
you
know
a
very
senior
division
head
position
at
106,
even
if
we
make
a
I've.
E
And
it
definitely
hurts
our
recruitment
efforts,
as
we've
seen
with
recent
positions
just
looking
at
that
starting
pay.
Even
if
we
post
the
range
for
the
position
up
to
a
six
figure,
we
have
people
see
that
it
starts
at
84
and
basically
just
say.
No,
it's
not
for
me
right.
E
So,
starting
in
a
non-sworn,
we're
definitely
still
low,
so
we're
currently
at
essentially
a
minimum
wage
of
around
14
an
hour
for
our
40-hour
week.
Employees,
especially
in
the
local
region,
we've
fallen
behind
a
bit
north
charleston
is
effectively
at
1635.
E
mount
pleasant
is
over
15.
I
forget
the
exact
number.
We
saw
a
recent
proposal
for
the
school
district
to
reach
a
17
an
hour
minimum
wage
and
the
county.
I
believe
it's
proposed
to
hit
15
an
hour
as
of
july
of
this
year.
E
There
is,
and
so
we
did-
and
that
was
what
we
based
our
cost
of
living
factor
on-
to
try
to
bring
us
as
close
to
that,
as
we
could
now
essentially
across
our
whole
plan.
There's
a
couple
of
positions
that
we
maybe
don't
need
to
make
major
changes
to,
but
in
general,
essentially
every
position
we
surveyed
we
found
to
be
lower
than
what
we
would
find
ideal.
E
Some
of
them
get
a
little
closer,
but
there's
definitely
still
a
gap.
I
mean
there
there.
There
were
very
few
positions
if
any,
that
aligned
sort
of
in
the
top,
even
say
25,
and
so
then,
beyond
those
sort
of
first
three
recommendations.
E
We'd
ask
you
to
consider
four
additional
pay
adjustments
as
part
of
the
2023
budget,
as
we
talked
about
before
a
true
cost
of
living
adjustment
that
is
tied
to
the
consumer
price
index
or
some
other
defined
measure,
something
that
we
would
use
every
year
so
that
we
know
essentially
what
that's
going
to
be
essentially
ties
our
plan
progression
to
inflation.
E
We'd
also
ask
you
to
consider
an
additional
separate
pay
adjustment
to
the
non-sworn
plan,
which
we'll
have
a
couple
examples:
an
additional
separate
pay
adjustment
to
the
fire
pay
plan,
in
addition
to
restructuring
their
entry
level
steps
and
it's
the
same
thing
for
the
police
pay
plan.
Frankly,
we
believe
there's
room
for
improvement,
kind
of
across
the
board
and.
B
E
Believe
they're,
both
aware
of
the
survey
that
we
were
doing,
we
haven't
had
as
much
a
chance
to
talk
in
a
lot
of
detail.
To
be
frank,
we
really
kind
of
finished
putting
the
recommendations
together
in
about
the
last
week,
so
we
haven't
had
as
much
time
to
sort
of
discuss
with
them,
as
we
maybe
would
have
liked.
But
again,
these
are
very
preliminary
recommendations.
We're
going
to
spend
some
more
time
sort
of
refining
exactly
what
these
are
going
to
look
like.
C
D
Done
a
cost
of
living
adjustment
based
on
cpi,
it's
always
based
on
what
competitors
are
doing
in
the
market,
so
my
suggestion
here
would
be.
This
should
be
benchmarked
against
what
other
governments
are
doing,
how
other
governments
are
paying
their
employees
instead
of
paying
it
to
cpi,
because
that
could
I
mean
we're
not
going
to
drop
their
pay
when
cpi
goes
down
which,
hopefully
it
will
next
year
so
crossing
our
fingers.
So
then,
these
two
three
and
four
would
be
in
addition
to
that
number
one
correct.
E
Okay
and
the
other
and
the
cost
of
living
cpi
was
just
one
of
our
leading
examples.
We
think
the
bigger
thing
would
be
having
a
defined
measure.
So
if
we
were
to
say
you
know
we're
going
to
do
a
regular
survey
and
that's
the
benchmark,
we
use.
D
E
A
In
one
of
the
earlier
slides
the
amount
of
employees
who
choose
to
live
in
the
city
and
providing
that,
because
I
know
that's
something
I've
I
had
asked
for
so
I
appreciate
that,
but
I
don't
see
in
the
recommendations
that
we
would
provide
a
differential
to
those
employees
living
in
the
city
or
to
add
it
as
an
incentive.
A
So
as
an
example,
if
you
currently
live
in
lansin,
but
the
city
provided
a
five
percent
or
whatever
number
we
come
up
with
pay
differential.
If
you
choose
to
live
in
the
city
because
you're
paying
property
taxes,
you
know
you're
you're,
a
contributing
member
on
the
tax
side,
but
there's
the
opportunity
benefits
that
happen
as
well.
Right,
because
you're
gonna
volunteer
in
the
community
be
a
little
league
coach.
A
You
know
maybe
worship
at
various
places
of
worship
in
the
city
and
be
a
part
of
the
fabric
of
the
community.
Instead
of
thinking
of
us
just
as
an
employer
where
you
commute
into
charleston
and
then
leave
you
would
be
able
to
stay.
E
I
can't
say
I'm
terribly
aware
of
any
such
thing.
I
would
say
my
sort
of
immediate
thought
would
be,
especially
as
we've
seen
the
cost
of
living
in
the
city.
If
we
have
staff
who
feel
they
can't
live
in
the
city,
they're
going
to
essentially
feel
like
we're,
also
punishing
them
by
paying
them
less
for
not
being
able
to
do
so.
E
So
I
would
be
a
little,
I
think,
cautious
if
we
were
to
explore
that
route,
just
because
it
sort
of
creates
two
distinct
camps
of
people,
which
I
think
especially
given
some
of
our
current
circumstances.
As
much
as
we
can
kind
of
keep
everybody
sort
of
together.
As
one
group
I
think,
the
better
off
we'd
be,
but
it's
something
we
could
potentially
look
into.
A
Because,
because
my
concern
is
that
when
employees
and
the
police
and
fire
come
to
us
and
they
talk
about
wanting
to
live
in
the
city,
that's
the
incentive
to
provide
is
that
if
you
do
want
to
truly
live
in
the
city,
we
can
provide
that
incentive
to
you
right
like
we
can
create
that,
because
otherwise
we
can
across
the
board,
raise
pay,
but
that's
not
going
to
necessarily
convince
someone
to
come
to
the
city.
B
I
mean
the
city
already
has
down
payment
assistance
programs
available
which
to
me
is
an
incentive.
If
someone
wants
to
live
in
the
city
will
help
you
buy
a
house
so
there
there
are.
I
mean
it's
not
articulated
quite
that
way,
but
to
me
there
are
some
incentives
out
there
and
then
there
are
also
some
federal
incentives
out
there
too,
for
people
to
be
able
to
participate
in
buying
houses,
etc,
etc.
Great
cities
that
they
they
live
in
right,
but.
A
Right,
like
I
mean,
am
I
making
sense
yeah,
you
make
sense.
Okay,
because
I
I
I
will
say
the
city
of
hartford
in
connecticut-
does
provide
that
so
they're,
not
in
south
carolina,
but
there
are
municipalities
that
do
provide
that
for
employees,
it's
not
like
I've
just
created
it
out
of
the
way.
D
So
one
of
our
homework
assignments,
I
think,
was
to
look
at
what
we
are
offering
employees
right
now.
So
let's
come
back
with
that,
maybe
and
then
I
think
we
can
talk
about
all
that
for
sure,
but
getting
us
kind
of
where
we
need
to
be.
This
probably
should
be
our
first
focus,
because
this
is
what
we
need
to
do
is
going
to
take
a
couple
of
years
for
us
to
really
kind
of
put
together
and
get
a
good
plan
in
place.
D
D
C
Kind
of
piggyback
on
councilman
brady,
actually
any
employees
that
we
have
in
that
live
in
the
psd
that
can
annex
to
the
city.
They
may
not
be
aware
that
they
immediately
gonna
save
money
on
the
property.
Taxes
immediately
will
save
money
on
their
water
and
sewer
bills.
A
lot
of
people
just
don't
know
that
most
people
they
save
enough
to
take
a
cruise
every
year
when
they,
when
they
annex
from
san
andreas
psd
to
the
city.
C
So
I
don't
know
how
we
we
got
a
new
annexation
coordinator
to
be
good
at
that,
maybe
can
be
put
in.
As
a
did,
you
know
type
thing
in
a.
C
You
know,
I
guess
out
to
our
employees,
I'm
just
telling
you
if
somebody
bought
a
house
in
the
psd,
it
used
to
be
taxes
were
lower
than
the
psd,
but
that
hadn't
changed
since
we
had
local
option
sales
tax
we've.
C
What
15,
almost
20
years
so
anyway,
that's
a
little
incentive
that
did
you
know
if
they
knew
they
would
take
advantage
of.
The
second
thing
is
in
in
public
works
department.
We
had,
I
think,
seven,
ditch
cleaning
crews
budgeted,
but
we.
C
Staff-
and
the
fact
is,
you
can't
hire
people
at
fourteen
dollars
an
hour
with
a
pick,
and
I
actually
go
in
and
clean
up
these
ditches.
So
we
have
budgeted
positions
that
don't
get
filled.
C
How
can
we,
I
don't
know,
work
the
pig,
the
pay
grade
to
the
point
to
where
to
give
matt
fountain,
for
example,
flexibility
to
take
those
unfunded
employees
that
we
can't?
I
mean
budgets
amounts
that
we
can't
hire.
Somebody
at
14
000
an
hour
take
some
of
those
dollars
the
increase,
so
we
can
hire
and
get
our
pitch
cleaning
crews
back
up
to
full
force
again,
instead
of
being
at
50
or
less
than
50
percent
of
capacity.
E
So
I
think
part
of
the
issue
with
that
is
that
we
we
have
a
lot
of
very
similar
positions
across
the
city.
So
when
you
look
at
storm
waters,
their
ditch
crews
are
essentially
what
we
call
kind
of
a
construction
worker.
We
also
have
those
in
public
service,
and
so
the
problem
we
run
into
is,
I
think,
if
we
were
to
look
at
potentially
maybe
realigning
positions
in
a
way
to
increase
the
pay.
We
would
really
need
to
do
it
across
the
board.
E
Otherwise,
we'd
be
we'd,
be
potentially
running
into
an
issue
where
okay,
well
stormwater,
has
found
a
way
to
get
the
money
so
they're
going
to
pay
more
money,
but
public
service
doesn't
have
the
flexibility
so
now,
they're
construction
workers
who
are
doing
very
similar
work,
are
getting
paid
less
and
sort
of
creating
our
own
internal
problem.
I
think
we
would
need
to
look
at
potentially
closing
positions
on
really
a
global
scale,
and
how
do
we
convert
that
into
sort
of
raising
raising
that
minimum
for
everyone,
because
we
have?
B
E
I
don't
believe
so
and
then,
especially
when
we
look
at
the
way
we
structured
our
pay
plan.
The
issue
we
run
into
is
one
we've
talked
before
about
pay
compression
and
what
we
have
is
we
have
construction
workers
kind
of
towards
the
bottom,
but
then
one
grade
above
them
is
maybe
the
lead
construction
workers
and
maybe
one
grade
above
them-
is
the
crew
leader
a
grade
or
two
above.
That
is
your
equipment
operators
and
so
there's
no
real,
easy
way
to
reclassify
any
one
position
without
it
potentially
interfering
with
another.
So.
B
E
That
is
part
of
what
we've
looked
at
looked
at
in
this
case
and
part
of
it
is
over
the
last
preview.
The
last
few
years
we
did
work
to
raise
the
minimum
wage
which
we
we
were
pretty
successful
at
we
used
to
be
substantially
lower,
but
part
of
the
way
we
did.
That
was
we
essentially
kind
of
compressed
some
of
those
bottom
grades.
E
At
one
point,
on
average,
our
pay
grades
were
approximately
10
apart.
So
there's
about
a
ten
percent
difference
from
one
pay
grade
to
the
next.
Now,
among
our
bottom
grades,
it's
about
six
or
seven
percent.
B
E
And
ultimately,
we
kind
of
have
to
find
a
way
to
flow
that
through
the
whole
plan.
Otherwise
we're
going
to
run
into
a
situation
where
we've
almost
pitted
department
against
department.
F
E
We'll
knock
out
the
last
one
so
based
on
our
salary
survey,
we
have
some
preliminary
estimates,
we're
essentially
looking
at
what
would
it
take
for
us
to
get
in
the
top
one
percent,
which
would
put
us
essentially
at
where
we
looked
at
sort
of
like
hilton
head
as
being
very
high
versus
what
it
would
take
for
us
to
get
in
the
top
ten
percent,
which
puts
us
kind
of
closer
to
sort
of
durham
mount
pleasant?
E
Maybe
saint
andrews
non-sworn
positions
versus
getting
into
the
top
25
percent,
which
gets
us
a
little
closer
to
where
sort
of
greenville
and
savannah
are
to
get
in
the
top
one
percent
we'd
be
looking
at
a
substantial
increase.
This
is
an
estimate
for
essentially
to
get
there
right
now,
one
year.
If
we
were
to
get
there
for
january
1
2023,
we
would
need
to
make
a
non-sworn
adjustment
of
about
45
sworn
adjustments
of
20
to
30,
and
it
would
be
about
40
million
dollars.
E
That's
the
top
one
percent
which
we
would
like,
but
is
a
stretch
top
ten
percent
non-sworn
would
take
about
37
percent
sworn
would
be
somewhere
between
15
and
25..
The
estimated
cost
would
be
about
31
million
dollars
to
get
us
in
the
top
25
percent,
which
would
put
us
closer
to
sort
of
greenville
and
savannah.
E
Our
non-sworn
adjustment
would
need
to
be
about
22
sworn
adjustments
anywhere
between
5
and
15,
and
the
estimated
cost
would
be
17
million
dollars
so
to
get
in
the
top
25
of
those
we've
surveyed,
which
again
kind
of
puts
us
in
the
realm
of
where
some
of
our
competitors
are.
Where
we
look
at
sort
of
mount
pleasant,
north
charleston
kind
of
edging
up
towards
that
top
25
percent
just
to
catch
up
to
them
today
would
cost
17
million
dollars.
E
E
F
E
B
E
I
think
it
would
that's
what
I
do
think,
there's
a
lot
of
departments
who
maybe
feel
like
they're,
not
quite
doing
everything
that
they
would
necessarily
like
to
do.
I
think
there's
definitely
some
things
we
would
like
to
move
more
in
the
direction
of
that
we
haven't
been
able
to
as
of
yet,
but
that
is
kind
of
one
of
the
questions
is
especially
looking
at
our
staffing
rate
and
given
the
position
that
we're
in
that
may
be,
something
we
need
to
consider
is
longer
term
to
make
this
work.
What
do
we
need
to
do.
D
Obviously,
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
a
lot
of
different
things
right,
but
I
want
you
to
remind
you,
too,
with
our
vacancy
savings,
how
we
budget
for
that,
so
taking
positions
away
might
not
take,
you
know,
might
not
help
as
much
as
we
think
it
would,
because
we're
already
accounting
for
that
in
our
in
our
savings
number.
So
we
just
need
to
look
at
everything
clearly.
B
Understand
just
throwing
things
out
there,
mr
mayor,
so.
F
If
I
may,
and
would
you
go
back
ryan
to
the
recommendations
page-
and
I
probably
don't
have
to
say
this,
but
I'm
going
to
you-
know
historically,
those
working
for
government
have
a
aspect
of
public
service
to
their
careers
and
to
their
employment
that
that
the
private
sector
doesn't
have
and
and
also
historically,
the
private
sector
pays
more.
Of
course,
all
our
comparisons
were
really
with
other
governments,
that's
correct
and
not
with
the
private
sector.
F
I
understand
that
and-
and
I
got
to
tell
you-
the
employees
of
the
city
of
charleston-
it's
an
honor
to
work
with
them,
both
sworn
and
non-sworn.
F
I
believe
they
do
a
remarkable
job
and,
given
that
our
vacancies
are
there,
they've
been
pulling
extra
weight
and
then
the
job
market
in
the
last
year
has
just
kind
of
turned
upside
down
as
a
result
of
covid.
So
you
you
basically
see
which,
which
I
believe
in
the
four
recommendations
we
need
to
pay
adjustment
for
every
employee
of
the
city
of
charleston.
F
We
we
tried
to
do
that
last
year,
with
with
our
cost
of
living,
increase
was
much
more
than
it
had
been
for
a
while,
but
just
the
combination
of
the
labor
market
and
everything
else.
I
mean
we're
still
behind
where
we
should
be
it's.
It's
amazing
to
me
that,
seven
years
ago,
when,
when
I
walked
in
the
door-
and
we
were
paying
some
people
850
an
hour,
you
know
and
we
were
trying
to
get
to
15
we're
we're
still
not
quite
there.
F
Yet
we
we
got,
we
got
put
back
a
year
or
two
because
of
the
revenue
shortfalls
from
from
covid,
but
then
we
were
trying
to
catch
back
up
last
year
and
we're
still
behind
I
mean
because
the
private
sector
has
really
jumped
ahead
of
us
and
even
some
of
our
competition,
if
you
will
has
and
and
just
for
the
first
time
I
I
think
I
had
an
insight
with
the
vacancy
rates
of
what's
going
on
in
the
labor
market.
F
Right
now
I
mean
our
sworn
positions:
police
and
fire
with
with
I
mean
they
could
leave
their
profession
and
go
do
something
else,
but
for
the
most
part,
they're
likely
to
remain
a
firefighter
or
or
police
officer,
so
they
can
stay
with
us
or
they
can
go
work
for
mount
pleasant
or
move
somewhere
else.
Now
a
truck
driver,
who's
driving,
you
know
a
garbage
truck
or
a
trash
truck.
F
I
mean
he
can
go
to
work
for
some
other
trucking
company
or
or
many
other
private
sector
options
so
with
what's
happened
in
the
labor
market.
It
kind
of
makes
sense
to
me
right
now
that
we're
seeing
this
higher
turnover
with
our
non-sworn
positions,
because
they
really
have
a
lot
of
options
right
now
to
make
more
money
right.
So
so
the
bottom
line
is
to
to
consider
the
four
additional
paid
adjustments.
F
It's
it's
all
the
the
city,
employees
and
you
saw
the
comparison
not
to
cpi,
but
to
our
competition
even
to
get
in
the
top.
25
percent
would
cost
us
17
million
dollars
a
year.
So
that's
a
big
nut
for
for
for
us
to
be
thinking
about
for
next
year.
F
I
did
want
to
ask
amy
if,
if
add
to
our
homework
list,
I
know
you
got
a
long
one
assignment
just
to
see
on
those
first
two
recommendations
to
restructure
step,
one,
what
it
would
cost
for
the
balance
of
this
year
from
july
1
to
december
31st.
F
If,
if
that
can
be
figured
because
it
seems
that
that
that
starting
adjustment
there
on
on
the
firefighter
on
step,
one
is
something
that's
just
glaring
on
our
face.
You
know
something
we
know
we
need
to
do
and
and
I'd
say
the
same
about
step,
one
on
the
police
side
as
well.
F
I
don't
know
how
big
of
a
budget
item
that
is
and
when
we
get
our
audit
back,
whether
we
got
a
few
extra
bucks
for
the
balance
of
the
year,
but
I
would
like
to
at
least
take
a
look
and
see
if
that's
a
bite
that
we
could
take
this
year
rather
than
waiting
until
next
year
and
and
then
we're
going
to
look
at
the
whole
plan.
Thank
you.
F
C
Yeah
on
on
that,
I
agree
with
everything
that
may
have
said
on
that
I
mean
we
just
gotta.
We
gotta
find
a
way
to
pay
more
when
it
when
it
comes
that
those
options,
you
know
one
two
three
and
four
was
retirement
bigger
than
that
as
well.
In
what
way?
E
C
Well,
one
last
thing
have
we
ever
thought
about
in
addition
to
bringing
the
payoff
somehow
incorporating
a
bonus
program.
E
So
we
have,
we
do
have
a
sign-on
bonus
program
that
we've
used
for
some
positions,
particularly
hard
to
fill
positions.
Some
of
our
cdl
drivers
in
particular,
we've
used.
We've
used
a
kind
of
sign-on
bonus
to
bring
people
in
the
door,
but
honestly
we
we
don't
have
great
data
on
it.
But
anecdotally
we
haven't
seen
that
necessarily
bringing
as
many
people
through
the
door
as
we
would
like.
They
tend
to
seem
to
focus
more
on
what
that
hourly
rate's
actually
going
to
be
versus
a
bonus.
We
might
have
to
bring
them
in
well.
C
What
I
really
was
thinking
about
is
bonuses
for
retention,
in
particular
in
particular,
for
management
team,
because,
frankly,
right
now
we're
in
a
vulnerable
position
and
we've
got
some
management
department
here
that
if
the
private
sector
will
snatch
them
away
from
us,
we'd
be
hurt.
C
D
Councilmember
waring,
we
do
have
bonuses
like
they're,
we
can
do
bonuses,
we
don't
have
an
official
program
for
it,
but
we
do
offer.
Supervisors
can
ask
for
bonuses
for
their
employees.
D
Okay,
so
quick
question
on
the
on
the
bullets
here,
so
bringing
up
the
step
one
on
both
police
and
fire.
I
mean
I'm
just
looking
at
the
charts
back
here
so
and
we
you're
gonna
have
to
adjust
all
the
steps.
It's
not
just
step
one,
because
if
you
do
that
you're
gonna
bring
step.
One
up,
I
mean
they'll
get
paid
more
than
step
two.
E
D
E
E
We
think
that
gives
us
some
options
to
potentially
kind
of
stretch,
things
out
a
little
bit
essentially
front
load
more
of
that
growth.
Okay,
that
we
could
find
a
way
to
build
in
more
money
on
the
front
end.
Maybe
their
progression
slows
a
little
to
match
more
closely
like
what
police's
growth
looks
like,
and
we
can
kind
of
try
to
control
a
little
bit
of
the
cost
that
way
kind
of
yeah.
We
would
need
to
restructure.
B
And
another
right
now
it's
in
another
month,
but
we
can
have
meetings
whenever
we
want.
Do
you
want
to
table
this
one?
Can
we
table
that
and
maybe
because
that
one's
going
to
be
a
lot
of
discussion,
I'm
sure,
okay
and,
secondly,
that
we
table
preliminary
discussion
on
medical
plans
all
in
favor
say
aye
aye.
Do
I
hear
emotion.