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From YouTube: Personnel Review Board Hearing 11 17 2021
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A
Good
afternoon,
everyone,
my
name,
is
aretha
hollowell
human
resources
director
for
the
city
of
columbus.
Today
we
are
here
for
a
personnel
review
board
hearing
for
officer
tyler
wise
of
the
columbus
police
department.
I'll
just
have
a
few
notes
to
review
with
you
all
before.
I
turn
it
over
to
our
chairperson
for
today,
terence
goodwin,
the
purpose
of
today's
the
purpose
of
the
personnel
review
board.
A
Its
mission
is
to
ensure
that
merit
system
employees
have
received
due
process
and
proper
treatment
when
they
have
received
significant
disciplinary
actions.
The
personnel
review
board's
role
is
to
review
the
disciplinary
actions
appeal
to
the
board
to
ensure
that
the
discipline
was
not
an
abuse
of
discretion
provided
to
the
officials
who
supervise
merit
system,
employees.
A
Three
board
members
must
be
in
attendance
in
order
to
conduct
a
hearing,
and
we
do
have
three
board
members
here
today:
the
board
members,
their
review
shall
be
made
in
accordance
with
the
following
standards.
A
A
A
As
a
note
to
the
board
and
reminder
once
you
have
completed
your
deliberation,
you
must
return
to
your
seat
in
order
to
vote
in
public.
So
that's
all
I
have
for
the
board
today,
and
I
will
now
turn
it
over
to
our
chairperson
for
today,
torrence
goodwin,
to
introduce
the
other
board
members
and
to
conduct
the
hearing.
B
B
Thank
you
very
much.
Employees
and
departments
and
their
representatives
or
attorneys
will
limit
their
presentation
to
30
minutes
unless
time
is
extended
by
the
majority
of
vote
of
the
sitting
board.
That
would
include
your
opening
and
closing
remarks
thereafter.
Each
each
party
will
have
time
to
cross-examine
witnesses.
B
B
B
We
do
ask
I'm
sorry,
we
do
ask
that
you
used
a
microphone
if
you
do
want
to
have
a
witness.
If
you
would
come
up
to
that
stand,
I
think
it
has.
You
want.
F
F
Computer
screens
started
to
get
bad
migraines
started
to
take
ibuprofen
to
try
and
self-medicate
that
which
didn't
want
to
work,
because
I
figured
taking
pills
and
things
like
that.
I
just
didn't-
want
to
really
go
that
route,
so
I
started
looking
for
alternative
ways
to
try
and
remedy
that
problem.
F
I
was
under
some
guidance
from
a
supervisor
at
the
police
department
who
owned
a
cbd
shop,
which
was
legal
and
under
that
it
was
told
to
me
that
it
would
help
it's
not
going
to
hurt
anything
one
that
it's
not
illegal.
I
started
using
some
of
those
products
and
they
helped
a
lot
and
I
continued
using
them
thinking.
I
was
just
trying
to
remedy
my
migraines
things
like
that
and
didn't
think
anything
of
it.
E
E
E
Has
anybody
from
the
police
department
ever
put
out
a
policy
warning
advisory
notice
or
anything
like
that
telling
the
officers
that
cbd
oils
derivatives,
whatever
you
want
to
call
them,
could
cause
a
positive
test
like
this?
No
sir,
if
they
had
put
out
a
notice
advisory
et
cetera
like
that,
they
would
have
required
you
to
sign
it.
Wouldn't
they?
Yes,
sir.
Okay,
I
believe.
That's
all
I've
got
for
officer
wise.
B
E
G
G
I
went
to.
We
actually
didn't
take
the
urinalysis
test
until
later
that
afternoon.
At
the
time
I
was
supposed
to
be
heading
in
to
check
out
it
was
the
captain
brought
it
up
to
the
supervisor's
attention
that
our
new
policy
procedure
was
that
I
go
get
a
drug
test
after
the
accident,
so
I
was
rerouted
up
to
the
medical
center
to
get
a
do
a
urine
test
and
then,
at
the
time
again
it
was
new
procedure.
G
Before
whenever
we
had
drug
tests
done
at
the
medical
center,
it
was
always
generally
for
a
suspect
or
someone
in
custody
and
the
results
were
sent
to
the
recorder's
court
and
that's
actually
what
happened
this
time.
Because
of
this,
the
newness
of
the
policy.
My
results
were
sent
to
recorders
court
instead
of
the
police
department,
and
it
wasn't
until
three
months
later
when
somebody
was
reorganizing,
the
drug
tests
and
whatnot
that
they
saw
my
name
on
it
and
realized
that
this
was
supposed
to
go
to
the
police
department.
G
G
I
hadn't
done
any
illegal
drugs
or
whatnot,
but
I
was
trying
to
figure
out
what
would
cause
a
false
positive,
because
I
had
never
had
a
false
positive
or
done
any
drugs
at
all.
You
know
up
to
that
point,
so
it
just
happened
to
remember,
after
about
four
days
being
on
the
street,
leave
that
I
had
eaten
some,
what
they
call
poppy
seed
covered,
sausages
or
bagel
covered
sausages
that
have
poppy
seeds
in
the
dough.
They
were
in
the
break
room
of
the
police
department.
I
notified
internal
affairs.
G
Internal
affairs
went
to
the
distributor,
asked
them
about
it.
They
did
confirm
that
there
was
those
items
that
were
in
the
break
room
with
the
police
department,
which
I
had
eaten
two
of
those
the
day
of
the
accident.
When
I
was
waiting
for
the
officer
to
do
the
report,
so
then
I
could
check
out
another
car
that,
after
we
found
that
information
out
I
went
I
was
called
back
in.
They
got
two
of
the
cover
sausages
from
the
vendor.
G
G
The
two
bagel
covered
sausages
then
waited
the
amount
of
time
from
when
I
had
my
accident
when
I
was
tested
before,
went
back
up
there
and
retested,
and
then
they
determined
that
it
was
the
poppy
seeds
that
were
causing
me
being
positive,
and
what
I
was
positive
for
was
morphine
at
the
time,
which
is
derivative
of
an
opiate
which
the
poppy
seeds
are
also
a
derivative
of
that.
E
E
E
E
E
E
E
H
E
E
E
E
Well,
I
don't
want
you
to
read
it
all
and
there's
one
portion
that
I'm
concerned
with
and
that's
the
person
that
says
no
alcoholic
beverage
license
shall
be
issued
to
the
following
persons
or
entities,
and
you
see
number
six
says:
a
law
enforcement
officer
and
their
spouses
right.
Okay,
so
a
police
officer
can't
hold
a
liquor
license.
E
H
H
E
E
H
H
Here's
one
right
here
and
and
so
and
while
you're
looking
for
that,
it
was
my
concern
that,
as
police
chief,
I
cannot
have
police
officers
to
test
positive
for
marijuana
or
any
other
illegal
drug
and
allow
them
to
drive
city
streets
and
police
cars
and
carry
firearms
and
to
enforce
the
law,
and
they
are
positive
for
drugs.
I.
E
Employees
testing
positive
shall
be
subject
to
disparate
action
up
to
and
including
discharge
all
employees
not
terminated
following
a
positive
test
shall
be
placed
on
probation
for
one
year
following
the
data
testing
employees
placed
on
probation
following
a
positive
drug
test
shall
be
subject
to
random
drug
testing
at
irregular
intervals
throughout
the
term
of
probation.
Is
that
the
policy?
That's
what
it
reads?
Okay,
so.
E
H
E
E
E
E
E
Okay,
well,
I
I'm
giving
I'm
just
reading
what
was
sent
to
me
in
the
in
the
packet
they
sent
to
me
to
come
to
this
hearing
today.
That
should
be
in
that
packet
too.
Okay,
strong
mitigating
circumstances
may
provide
an
opportunity
for
disciplinary
action.
Other
than
dismissal
exceptions.
Determination
must
be
approved
by
the
city
manager
and
result
in
appropriate
disciplinary
action,
which
will
include
mandatory
referral
to
eap
a
year's
probation.
Random
testing
for
up
to
two
years,
as
directed
by
the
human
resources,
is
that
right.
E
E
H
E
H
E
E
You've
been
here
five
years
you
ain't
had
any
other
drug
and
alcohol
problems,
I'm
going
to
suspend
you
for
30
days,
he's
been
gone
for
almost
four
months
now
we're
going
to
put
you
on
probation
for
a
year
we're
going
to
test
you
at
irregular
intervals.
Would
that
kind
of
be
a
example
of
progressive
discipline
in
this
case?
No
okay?
Why
not.
H
Because
my
decision
to
terminate
him
and
progressive
discipline
does
not
apply
to
every
positive
violation.
There
are
some
instances
when
an
individual
will
be
terminated
on
the
first
offense
and
testing
positive
for
drugs
is
a
good
example
of
when
an
employee
would
be
terminated
on
the
first
offense.
H
E
If
you're
gonna
test
pi,
even
though
the
policy
says
you
don't
have
to
fire
everybody,
because
they
come
back
with
a
hot
test,
you're
gonna
do
it
anyway,
you're
not
going
to
worry
about
progressive
discipline.
You're
not
going
to
worry
about
the
exceptions
in
here
that
allow
you
to
suspend
them
for
30
days,
put
them
on
probation
and
then
monitor
their
activities
for
the
next
year.
That's
not
going
to
happen,
while
you're
chief
of
police
with
drugs
and
alcohol
in
your
department.
E
Okay,
that's
all
I've
got
for
chief
blackman
and
that's
the
all
the
evidence
I
have.
D
There
are
several
ccg
and
cpd
ccg,
being
columbus,
consolidated
government
cbd
being
police
department
policies
at
issue
here.
So
I'm
going
to
go
over
those
policies
with
you.
First
just
so,
we
know
what
terms
we
are
on.
D
This
first
policy
that
I've,
given
you
is
the
columbus
consolidated
government
or
I've
put
in
the
record.
Excuse
me,
as
exhibit
one,
is
the
columbus
consolidated
government,
drug
and
alcohol
policy
and
that
policy
on
page
eight
or
nine.
D
The
following
page
page
nine
reads
that,
while
dismissal
from
employment
will
occur
in
most
cases
the
following
fact,
factors
must
be
considered
prior
to
taking
any
personnel
action
and
the
following
guidelines
should
apply
a
being
that
public
safety
personnel
will
be
held
to
a
higher
standard,
so
officer
wise.
He
tested
positive
for
an
illegal
drug
marijuana.
D
He
was
put
on
leave
for
without
pay
for
five
days
pending
termination
and
in
line
with
his
policy
chief
blackman
made.
The
decision
to
terminate
his
employment
chief
blackman
could
have
done,
lies
less
yes,
technically
under
this
policy,
but
it
was
up
to
the
chief
and
the
chief
had
discretion,
depending
on
the
facts
here
at
issue
to
decide
on
termination
which
he
thought
was
appropriate.
Given
officers,
wives
officer,
wise's
job
as
a
police
officer,
and
the
importance
of
that.
D
Additionally,
under
testing
procedures,
which
is
page
7
of
that
policy,
the
policy
specifically
states
under
item
15
there
that
the
department
of
transportation
or
dot's
drug
and
alcohol
testing
regulation
does
not
authorize,
quote
unquote.
Medical
marijuana
to
be
valid,
a
valid
medical
explanation
for
a
transportation,
employee's
positive
drug
test
result
and
the
dot
or
department
of
transportation,
expanded
that
regulation,
statement
or
interpretation
in
february
of
2020
when
it
put
out
a
compliance
notice
and
that
compliance
notice
is
also
included
under
section
6
of
your
prb
packet.
D
And
that
compliance
notice
states
that
the
departments,
the
dots
drug
and
alcohol
testing
regulation
excuse
me
part
40
does
not
authorize
the
use
of
schedule.
1
drugs,
including
marijuana,
for
any
reason.
Furthermore,
cbd
use
is
not
a
legitimate
medical
explanation
for
a
laboratory,
confirmed
medical,
positive
test
result
and
the
ccg
pos.
The
ccg
policy
excuse
me
incorporates
all
dol
testing
policies
where
they
are
not
specifically
referenced
as
well.
D
D
D
D
Wise
told
the
chief
in
a
letter
which
we
will
cover
here
about
his
cbd,
oil
use
and
or
product
excuse.
D
So,
as
you
all
know,
the
standard
of
this
hearing
is
that
we
do
not
second-guess
the
chief's
decision.
The
standard
is,
is
that
you
you,
the
board,
can
only
reverse
for
an
abusive
discretion.
That
only
occurs
where
you
find
that
the
chief
did
failed
to
consider
either
facts
or
logic
relating
to
this
case
or
that
he
arbitrarily
departed
from
policy,
and
this
is
why
why
is
his
appeal,
the
standards
on
him
and
he
hasn't
proven
either
of
those
things.
D
Sergeant
wise's
attorney
received
this
affidavit
a
week
before
the
hearing
and
in
the
affidavit
specifically
paragraph
11,
dr
shearer
states
that
he
could
not
attend
the
hearing
today
to
testify,
as
he
is
a
sole
practitioner
at
his
office,
and
it
is
an
economic
hardship
for
him
to
mispractice
in
the
middle
of
the
afternoon
and
that
it
would
be
a
medical
hardship
for
his
patients
that
he
could
not
treat
during
that
time.
He
also
offered
officer
wise
two
times
that
he
could
be
deposed
via
zoom
and
officer.
D
And
he
states,
and
I'm
looking
at
paragraph
seven
page
3,
that
officer
wise's
ms
confirmation
test
was
positive
for
marijuana,
meaning
his
secondary
test.
Specifically
his
ms
confirmation
test
was
greater
than
1500
nanograms
per
milliliter,
which
is
more
than
a
hundred
times.
The
minimum
amount
required,
which
is
15
nanograms
per
milliliter.
D
He
also
he
being
dr
shearer
also
goes
on
in
paragraph
9
to
state
that
it
is
his
professional
opinion
that
is
highly
improbable,
that
the
test
results
of
a
marijuana
metabolite
level
greater
than
1500
nanograms
per
milliliter,
could
be
caused
solely
by
the
use
of
a
cbd
product
containing
the
legal
amount
of
thc,
I.e,
no
more
than
.3
percent.
I
have
also
consulted
I
being
dr
shurer
have
also
consulted
with
quest
diagnostics,
quest
diagnostics,
certified
scientist
mark
hawthorne.
D
How
worth
excuse
me
who
agreed
with
that
opinion-
and
that
is
dr
sharer's
testimony-
you
have
a
copy
for
the
record.
I
would
now
like
to
call
chief
blackman
on
behalf
of
ccg
me.
I
H
H
D
I
would
like
to
enter
that,
as
in
the
record,
as
ccg
exhibit
six
these
documents.
These
next
few
exhibits
are
in
the
also
in
the
prb
packet
under
section
five,
but
I
wanted
to
enter
them
into
the
record
as
part
of
ccg's
case
here.
D
J
D
And
that
placed
him
on
leave
for
five
days.
Correct,
that's
correct
and
gave
him
five
days
to
submit
something
in
writing
to
you,
justifying
or
explaining
the
positive
test
right.
H
H
H
He
also
states
within
the
letter
that
he
went
to
the
website
for
that
particular
business,
and
he
said
he
learned
that
it
could
be
something
that
would
show
a
positive
result
on
a
drug
test
and,
if
I'm
not
mistaken,
I
believe
he
said
that
the
the
sergeant
also
told
him
that
there
could
be
possible
positive
results
on
the
within
the
first
three
days.
D
H
H
D
H
D
D
H
That
decision
was
consistent
with
ccg
policies,
as
well
as
columbus,
police
department
policies,
and
it's
consistent
with
the
direction
that
I
want
to
go
as
a
police
chief
is
not
to
have
any
police
officers
test
policy
for
illegal
drugs
and
to
ensure
that
our
city
streets
are
safe
and
our
citizens
will
be
in
a
safe
place
as
well.
Even
our
employees.
D
D
D
Make
sure
you
speak
into
the
mic,
please
sorry,
can
you
tell
me,
did
officer
wise?
Did
he
consult
with
you
about
any
of
the
products
that
were
sold
in
your
store.
D
J
Yeah
he
told
me
that
he
was
having
issues
with
headaches.
He
asked
me
if
cbd
products
or
any
of
the
products
would
be
helpful
with
that.
I
showed
him
some
of
the
things
we
have
told
them
about
some
of
the
products
that
either
I
or
other
people
have
used
and
what
their
results
were
and
we'd
ended
up
selling
him
some
as
well.
J
J
J
It
has
similar
effects
as
far
as
helping
with
pain
stress,
my
wife
uses
them
for
sleep,
so
they
do
have
similar
benefits,
but
we
do
warn
everyone
that
they
are
intoxicating,
they're
not
sold
to
anyone
under
21..
You
shouldn't
take
them
if
you're,
nursing
or
pregnant
you
shouldn't,
use
them
and
then
drive
a
car
or
operate
heavy
machinery
and
that
they
will
show
up
on
a
drug
test.
J
J
D
J
J
J
J
I
know
that
he
purchased
some
of
our
delta
8
products.
He
also
purchased
some
of
the
cbd
seltzer
water.
Beyond
that,
I
don't
know
specifically-
and
I
wasn't
always
the
one
there.
D
D
J
J
J
F
F
F
B
Okay,
so
at
this
time
we'll
have
the
board
ask
any
questions
that
they
would
have,
after
which
we
will
give
each
attorney
three
minutes
to
make
a
closing
remark.
B
So
it's
to
my
understanding
that
sergeant
webb
is
not
your
direct
supervisor
correct.
F
No
sir,
my
my
direct
sergeant,
I
just
let
him
know
that
I
had
migraines
and
the
squad.
Let
them
know
I
had
migraines
and
I
was
taking
ibuprofen,
but
it
was
really
just
like
letting
them
know
hey.
If
I
come
in
and
I'm
dragging
a
little
bit
having
a
bad
one,
that's
really
it
didn't
consult
my
direct
sergeant
or
anything
about
that.
B
So
at
no
point
in
time,
did
you
ask
him?
Was
it
okay
to
take
a
product
that
may
come
up
positive
on
a
drug
test.
B
C
Yes,
I
have
a
question,
mr
wise:
did
you
see
any
warnings
on
your
receipt
about
the
possible
uses
of
what
you
had
purchased.
F
C
Okay,
did
you
see
any
warning
signs
posted
at
the
store.
B
Okay,
what
were
you
aware
that
there
was
a
slight
possibility
that
it
might
come
up
positive?
I
know
you
said
you
didn't
read
it.
You
didn't
read
the
receipt
you
didn't
read.
What
was
in
the
on
the
you
know
placards
or
whatever
in
the
store,
but
in
sergeant
webb's
statement
he
did
state
and
I
quote
he
said
he
does
not
recommend
they
use
them
in
the
course
of
their
work.
B
Company
policy
may
allow
even
the
illegal
amounts
of
thc
and
cpd
products
he
said
sergeant
will
state
his
store,
also
sell
cpd
oil
that
contains
zero
amounts
of
cbd
oil,
and
this
is
listed
on
items
in
the
store
at
the
end
of
quote.
So
you
were
you
even
aware
or
concerned
that
it
was
a
slight
possibility
that
drug
tests
may
come
positive.
F
It
was
but
my
biggest
thing
was:
I
didn't
want
to
keep
taking
ibuprofen
all
the
time
I
did
go
to
an
eye
doctor
a
couple
times
and
the
glasses
I
mean
they
didn't
seem
to
work,
taking
them
on
and
off
in
the
car
or
whatnot.
But
my
biggest
thing
was,
even
with
some
of
the
guidance
that
I
had
gotten.
I
made
my
conscious
decision
to
say
I'm
not
using
any
of
that,
while
I'm
working
whatsoever.
F
That
was
my
biggest
thing
and
I
mean
I
had
at
first
I
was
even
skeptical
when
I
had
asked
him
about
it,
and
I
kind
of
did
my
own
research
for
a
little
bit
and
just
looked,
and
I
said
to
myself
can't
use
it
at
work.
I
never
used
it
at
work
and
went
to
see
if
there
was
policy
about
it,
which
is
another
reason
why
I
didn't
really
ask
anybody
and
another
thing
too:
it
gets
kind
of
like
you
know,
stigmatism,
you
know
stigma
about
it
and
I
I
you
know
my
biggest
thing
was.
F
I
was
trying
to
remedy
a
problem
myself
without
trying
to
make
it
an
issue
for
somebody
else
and
look
for
an
alternative
way
to
trying
to
self-medicate
a
bad
migraine
problem,
and
I
just
felt
like
I
had
it
licked
by
myself
and
but
the
biggest
thing
like
I
had
said,
I
told
myself,
I'm
not
using
this
much
like
drinking
a
beer
or
something
you
can't
be
drinking
beer,
while
you're
at
work
reserve
that
for
after
hours,
when
I'm
off
of
duty,
never
once
did.
I
ever
use
anything
on
duty
or
anything
illegal.
For
that
matter.
C
Okay,
one
other
question
for
me:
when
you
were
doing
your
research
about
the
cbd,
did
you
research
anything
on
the
delta
product.
B
Is
it?
Is
it
typical
for
you
to
consume
products
that
you
know
a
little
about
without
reading
any
directions?
No
an
awarding.
B
But
in
his
testimony
he
stated
that
he
warns
everyone
to
not
take
it
while
you're
working
or
you
know,
I'm
assuming,
and
you
know
if
you're
working,
still
doing
the
same
work
in
six
and
three.
I
wouldn't
take
it
even
when
I'm
off
during
those
six
days.
F
Right
exactly,
I
wouldn't
take
it
if
I
was
working,
which
is
why
I
was
also
taking
some
ibuprop
ibuprofen
as
well,
and
it
got
to
the
point
where
I
just
wouldn't
want
to
take
so
much
ibuprofen.
For
similar
reasons.
I
didn't
want
anything
to
happen
and
I
started
looking
for
other
ways
and
when
I
found
out
sergeant
webb
had
had
a
shop.
That's
when
I
just
started
inquiring
about
it
and
I
felt
comfortable
with
some
of
that
guidance
coming
from
a
police
sergeant
and
things
like
that.
Did
you
consult
with.
H
H
H
B
C
I
wanted
to
ask
not
for
you
I'm
sorry
chief.
I
want
to
ask
the
attorney
hodges
you
mentioned
earlier
that
there
was
another
employee
that
had
tested
positive
for
drugs,
but
who
was
able
to
maintain
their
job.
Did
I
hear
that
correctly.
C
C
E
C
I'm
so
sorry,
I'm
so
sorry
I
just
wanted
to
make
sure
this
could
be
would
be
directed
to
the
city.
I
had
written
a
question
if
all
employees
were
given
copies
of
the
alcohol
and
drug
free
workplace,
the
one
that's
numbered
as
220-506.
D
D
B
Ms
johnson,
in
your
state
one
of
your
statements,
she
said
that
there
is
evidence
that
he's
not
being
truthful.
What
is
that
evidence
and
you're
referring
to.
D
I'm
sure
I'm
referring
to
the
letter
that
that
officer
wise
submitted
to
chief
blackman
in
appealing
his
termination,
where
he
just
said
he
took
cbd
oil
and
talked
about
0.3
thc.
And
he
mentions
in
that
letter,
specifically
that
it
doesn't
get
people
high
and
that
this
product
may
cause
a
positive
drug
test.
Whereas
the
testimony
we
heard
is
that
he
actually
took
delta
h,
which
is
intoxicating,
will
cause
you
to
have
a
positive
drug
test
and
that
he
was
told
about
that
and
did
not
mention
that
in
his
letter
to
the
chief.
C
C
Mr
wise,
I
was
just
trying
to
make
sure
that
I
understood
under
what
conditions
would
you
consider
placing
the
person
on
probation
if
they
violated
I'm
looking
at
section
six
on
page
eight,
and
it
says
in
the
following
cases:
employees
will
be
suspended
for
five
days
without
pay
and
are
subject
to
termination,
but
I
was
just
wondering
what
would
be
some
examples
of
situations
where
a
person
may
test
positive
but
yet
may
be
placed
on
probation
as
opposed
to
termination.
H
I
don't
know
at
this
particular
time
because
they
assess
each
situation
based
on
what's
presented
at
that
time,
and
so
this
this
this
table
is
regarded
as
if
it's
not
if
I'm,
if
I'm
correct
this
table,
is
pertaining
to
alcohol.
But
this
particular
case
is
pertaining
to
positive
drug
tests
and
they
make
them
drugs.
C
H
In
the
following
cases,
employees
will
be
suspended
for
five
days
without
pay
enough
subject
to
determination
and
then
it
as
it
lists
the
particular
cases
it's
in
number
two.
It
states
a
positive
drug
and
then
it
goes
on
to
say
or
alcohol
tests
in
the
alcohol
that
table
is
referencing
the
alcohol
tests
that
are,
that
that
may
take
place
and
when
you're
saying
number
three,
where
it
says
the
positive
drug
alcohol
tests,
while
on
probation,
he
was
not
on
probation.
H
He
had
so
number
two
applies
to
him
because
he
tested
positive
for
drugs.
H
C
Though
your
table
refers
to
breath
blood
alcohol,
but
yet
the
policy
on
the
disciplinary
actions
refers
to
both
drugs
and
alcohol.
So
I
was
just
trying
to
get
a
clear
understanding
because
that's
it
was
it's
confusing
to
me.
If
the
table
says
alcohol,
but
yet
your
disciplinary
actions
mention
drugs
and
alcohol.
D
B
Will
the
chief
blackman,
in
light
of
the
this
particular
case,
will
there
be
a
policy
change
to
cover
c
cbd.
I
H
Again,
I
based
my
decision
on
the
fact
he
tests
positive
for
marijuana.
So
I
don't
know
if
he
used
cbd.
He
said
he
did
and
but
I
don't
know
if
he
did
or
not
the
drug
policy
that
we
have
is
clear
that
anyone
who
tests
positive
for
any
illegal
drugs
it
deals
with
what
the
consequences
should
be,
of
course,
the
command
staff,
and
I
will
assess
it
as
well
as
I
will
communicate
with
our
hr
and
city
attorneys
to
see
if
we
need
to
be
even
more
specific.
B
E
And
y'all
had
great
questions,
and
I
appreciate
y'all's
time
this
afternoon
on
behalf
of
officer
wise
you've
heard
it
from
miss
hollowell
and
you've
heard
it
from
ms
johnson
abuse
of
discretion.
Is
your?
E
Is
your
mandate
here
to
turn
this
around?
If
you
find
that
chief
blackman's
abused
his
discretion
and
what
I've
heard
from
him
today
is
he
didn't
even
use
any
discretion?
He
just
says
if
you've
got
a
hot
positive
test,
you're
fired
you're
terminated,
that's
the
end
of
the
story.
No
discretion
is
the
same
as
abusing
your
discretion.
E
E
E
We're
going
to
take
in
and
dr
sharer
and
the
other
fella
there's
an
email,
y'all
have
it
in
your
packet.
There
says
it's
highly
improbable,
it
doesn't
say
it's
impossible,
because
it's
highly
improbable
so
we're
going
to
take
the
man's
livelihood
away
from
him.
Take
his
job
away
from
him
by
all
accounts
he's
a
good
officer.
He
wants
to
go
back
and
be
a
police
officer,
or
he
wouldn't
have
gone
through
all
this.
E
If
he
didn't
really
want
to
work
out
there
as
a
police
officer,
so
we're
going
to
take
it
all
away
from
him,
throw
it
out
because
he
had
a
test
because
there's
no
policies
about
this
cbd.
That's
another
issue
here,
there's
no
real
guidance
on
what
to
do
with
it.
It's
just
like
chief
blackman
says
it
shows
up
as
a
marijuana
test
and
we're
going
to
fire
it.
Well,
that's
not
right!
E
E
E
E
E
D
I
D
Member
of
public
safety
personnel,
which
is
held
to
a
higher
standard
under
the
existing
drug
and
alcohol
policy.
Three,
he
wise
didn't
just
test
a
little
bit
positive
for
marijuana.
He
tested
a
lot
positive
more
than
a
hundred
times.
The
minimum
required
amount
to
test
positive
on
a
confirmed
test
and
four
there's
evidence
that
wise
lied
not
only
to
the
chief
but
to
y'all.
In
his
initial
statement
he
mentioned
only
cbd
oil.
In
his
initial
statement
to
y'all,
there
was
no
mention
of
this
other
delta.
Eight.
D
D
He
doesn't
take
it
because
he
knows
he
has
to
get
drug
tested
and
he
doesn't
take
it
sergeant.
Webb
doesn't
take
any
cg
cbd
oil
because
he
knows
it
might
test
positive
and
he
told
sergeant
webb
testified
that
he
told
officer
wise
all
of
that
before
he
bought
it.
When
he
asked
him
about
delta
a
he
said.
This
will
make
you
test
positive
on
a
drug
test.
So
he
knew
that
and
that's
number
four,
even
if
what
wise
is
saying
is
true,
which
I'm
not
sure
I
believe
him.
D
D
We
don't
know
where
that
came
from
whether
it
was
cbd,
whether
it
was
delta
8,
whether
it
was
actual
marijuana
that
he
smoked,
because
those
products
might
not
have
helped
him
enough
for
his
migraines,
and
maybe
he
went
back
to
the
real
stuff.
We
don't
know
the
chief
doesn't
know
so
the
chief
had
to
take
everything
into
account.
He
took
the
positive
drug
test.
He
took
the
test
results.
D
He
took
what
officer
wise
told
him
in
that
letter
into
account
and
he
had
to
make
a
decision
and
he
had
the
authority
to
do
that
on
what
he
reasonably
believed
he
could
do,
and
that
decision
was
considered
with
all
the
facts
and
it
was
in
line
with
policy
as
far
as
termination
and
according
to
that,
the
standard
applicable
has
not
been
met.
Thank
you.
Thank.