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From YouTube: 1-20-22 Plan & Zoning Commission
Description
Des Moines Plan & Zoning Commission meeting on Thursday, January 20, 2022.
View the agenda: https://DSM.city/PZatHome
A
Hello,
welcome
to
the
january
20th
meeting
of
the
plan
and
zoning
commission.
Can
you
hear
me?
Okay,
great
I'll,
read
through
the
commission
rules
and
procedures.
The
plan
and
zoning
commission
is
generally
an
advisory
body
to
the
city
council.
The
city
council
will
hold
a
public
hearing
and
make
the
final
decision
on
all
matters
before
the
commission
other
than
site
plans
and
subdivision
plats.
Unless
denials
or
conditional
approvals
thereof
are
appealed.
A
A
A
B
A
A
Item
number
two
is
a
request
from
the
community
foundation
of
greater
des
moines
for
vacation
of
a
portion
of
the
public
right
of
way
adjoining
the
property
at
1910
ingersoll
avenue
and
to
grant
easement
for
this
vacated
portion
of
the
roadway.
So
anyone
here
who
wishes
to
have
this
item
pulled
and
discussed
this
evening.
A
Commissioners.
Okay:
this
item
will
remain
item.
Number
four
is
a
request
from
abc
partners
for
a
review
and
approval
of
a
second
amendment
to
the
airport
business
park,
phase
ii,
pud
conceptual
plan
on
property
located
at
7404
southwest
37th
street,
to
update
descriptions
for
permitted
uses
on
lots,
1
and
2,
and
to
replace
the
requirement
of
a
10
foot
wide
bicycle
path
with
a
five
foot
wide
sidewalk.
A
Commissioners,
okay.
Item
four
remains
item
number
five
is
a
request
from
invest
dsm
for
review
and
approval
of
a
public
hearing
site
plan
for
property
at
1085
26th
street
and
for
a
type
2
design
alternative
to
allow
construction
of
a
595
square
foot
addition
with
a
10
foot,
rear
yard
setback,
which
is
20
feet
less
than
the
required
30
foot,
rear,
yard
setback.
A
We
allow
a
ground
story
that
is
approximately
five
feet
above
the
adjacent
sidewalk
elevation
along
university
avenue,
at
least
80
percent
of
entrances,
and
the
ground
story
must
be
within
1.5
feet.
Vertically
of
all
adjacent
sidewalk
elevations
c
allow
a
primary
frontage
built
to
zone
of
approximately
eight
to
fifteen
feet,
which
is
three
to
ten
feet
beyond
the
maximum
built
to
threshold
of
five
feet
d,
allow
a
primary
frontage
coverage
of
approximately
30
percent,
which
is
60
percent
below
the
minimum
of
90
percent,
and
e.
A
A
C
C
A
Commissioners,
okay:
item
16
is
a
request
from
united
properties,
investment
company
for
review
and
approval
of
a
major
preliminary
platt
amendment
to
the
creek
at
echo
valley,
plat
1
for
property
at
2900.
Block
of
echo
valley
drive
to
allow
the
division
of
the
property
into
one
development
lot
with
a
proposed
office
building
and
two
additional
outlets.
A
A
allow
building
to
occupy
only
15
total
primary
frontage
coverage
along
the
hubble
avenue,
rather
than
the
minimum
60
primary
frontage
coverage
required
b.
Allow
the
primary
frontage
bill
his
own
to
be
approximately
40
feet
from
the
property
line,
which
is
approximately
35
feet
beyond
the
maximum
built-in
zone.
Threshold
of
5
feet
c.
Allow
the
non-primary
frontage
built-in
zone
to
be
approximately
178
feet
from
the
property
line,
which
is
approximately
168
feet
beyond
the
maximum
built.
A
His
own
threshold
of
10
feet
d,
allow
parking
and
fueling
station
parking
to
be
located
in
the
front
yard
area
instead
of
the
rear
or
limited
side
yard
e
wave,
the
requirement
to
underground
all
electric
phone,
cable,
television
and
transmission
systems.
Anyone
in
the
audience
who
wants
this
to
remain
on
the
public
agenda.
A
And
item
18
is
a
request
from
nm
holding
lc
for
review
and
approval
of
a
public
hearing
site
plan
and
for
the
following
type:
2
design,
alternatives
for
property
at
6250,
southeast
14th
street,
for
the
development
of
a
storefront
type
building
for
a
car
wash
a
allowed.
The
building
to
occupy
only
38
total
primary
frontage,
rather
than
the
minimum
60
percent.
Allow
the
primary
frontage
build
to
zone
to
be
approximately
68
feet,
which
is
63
feet
beyond
the
maximum.
Build
to
zone
threshold
of
five
feet
c.
A
Allow
the
garage
loading
exit
to
be
on
the
primary
street
facing
facade
rather
than
the
required
entrance
exit
locations
to
be
located
on
the
rear
or
limited
side.
Yards
d
allow
the
maximum
overall
height
of
the
building
to
be
approximately
31
feet
which
exceeds
the
maximum
18
feet.
E.
Allow
waiver
of
having
the
first
30
feet
of
space
at
the
primary
frontage,
be
occupied
space
and
f,
allow
for
transparency
on
the
street
facing
facade
to
be
approximately
23
percent
between
two
feet
and
eight
feet
in
height
rather
than
the
minimum
65
percent.
A
A
E
B
A
G
A
G
A
Okay
and
we'll
wait?
We
have
two
others
and
we'll
vote
on.
All
three
item
number
10
has
asked
for
a
continuance
to
march
3rd
and
10
is
a
request
for
following
regarding
properties
located
to
the
north
of
vandalia
road
between
southeast
30th
street,
to
the
west
and
the
city's
corporate
limits
to
the
east.
A
A
determination
as
to
whether
the
requested
rezoning
is
in
conformance
with
planned,
dsm,
b,
amend
plan
dsm
to
revise
future
land
use,
designation
from
business
park
to
industrial
and
c
rezoned
properties
from
ex
mixed
use.
District
to
i2
industrial
district
is
there
anyone
in
the
audience
who
would
like
to
have
this
item
discussed
and
commissioners
any?
B
A
A
A
I
So
if
anybody's
hearing
the
items
for
any
of
the
other
items,
they're
welcome
to
leave
17.
all
right
item
number.
Eight
is
a
request
for
a
determination
of
whether
the
proposed
carpenter
urban
renewal
plan
is
in
conformance
with
plan
dsm.
Creating
our
tomorrow
plan
in
your
packet
was
a
copy
of
the
proposed
carpenter
urban
renewal
plan.
I
And,
like
I
said,
that's
really
what
the
commission
is
charged
with
tonight.
Staff
has
found
that
the
proposed
plan
does
comply
with
the
plan,
dsm,
comprehensive
land
use
plan,
so
we
have
recommended
approval
of
it.
So
are
there
any
questions
for
me,
naomi
hamlet
with
the
city's
office
of
economic
development
will
be
giving
a
presentation
here
shortly.
So
you
might.
Your
questions
might
be
better
suited
for
her,
but.
J
Good
evening,
chair
members
of
the
planet,
zoning
commission,
as
bert,
said,
I'm
naomi
hamlet,
I'm
with
the
office
of
economic
development.
I'm
an
economic
development
coordinator.
I've
been
with
the
city
for
about
almost
six
years,
and
I
am
here
tonight
to
talk
about
the
carpenter
urban
renewal
plan.
J
So
I
thought
I'd
start
with
just
some
very
general
slides
at
first
I'm
guessing
you
all
know
what
an
urban
renewal
plan
is,
but
I
just
thought
I'd
do
a
quick
review.
So
what
is
an
urban
renewal
plan?
It
is
a
document
that
provides
long-term
plan
goals
for
a
specific
geographical
area.
So
when
we
talk
about
our
comprehensive
plan,
that's
the
entire
city
and
when
we're
talking
about
an
urban
renewal
plan,
it's
a
very
small
geographical
area.
It
doesn't
take
into
account
nearly
as
much
as
the
comprehensive
plan
does.
J
Typical
elements
within
an
urban
renewal
plan
include
a
map
of
the
area,
a
legal
description
of
the
area,
the
plan
objectives.
What
is
it
that
we're
trying
to
accomplish
with
this
urban
renewal
plan?
Why
do
we
think
we
need
it?
The
relationship
to
the
comprehensive
plan?
So
that's
where
you
guys
come
in
tonight
trying
to
figure
out
if
this
smaller
plan
is
in
conformance
with
the
larger
city
plan
and
then
a
description
of
each
urban
renewal
project?
J
This
isn't
required
for
an
urban
renewal
plan,
but
most
plans
do
have
the
description
of
the
particular
projects
that
the
plan
is
hopefully
going
to
be
accomplishing.
In
this
case,
we
do
have
a
description
of
an
urban
renewal
project
which
I'll
get
to
urban
renewal
plans.
Also
are
one
of
the
major
economic
development
tools
that
cities
have
so
purpose.
What
is
the
purpose
of
an
urban
renewal
plan,
so
iowa
law
allows
municipalities
to
establish
urban
renewal
areas
in
order
to
finance
various
activities,
and
we
do
that
through
tif
districts.
J
You
must
have
an
urban
renewal
area
before
you
can
establish
a
tif
district.
So
that's
why
we
want
to
create
an
urban
renewal
area.
So
later
we
can
create
the
tif
district,
so
the
various
things
that
could
be
financed
are.
I
have
a
few
listed
here,
provide
for
public
improvement
supposed
to
be
roads,
bridges,
sewers,
etc.
J
J
This
is
a
little
boring,
I
know,
but
just
wanted
to
talk
about
the
iowa
code,
just
for
a
minute.
So
chapter
403
is
the
urban
renewal
law
and
there's
a
particular
section
in
there.
That
mentions
the
plan
and
zoning
commission,
which
is
why
we're
here
tonight,
so
that
is
section
5.2.8
and
I'm
going
to
read
it
prior
to
its
approval
of
an
urban
renewal
plan.
J
So
we
have
various
maps
in
the
urban
renewal
plan.
The
zoning
map
isn't
necessarily
anything
you
need
to
act
on
tonight,
but
I
know
you
guys
deal
with
zoning
a
lot,
so
I
thought
I
might
include
that
tonight.
So
we
have
eight
different
zoning
districts
represented
in
this
urban
renewal
plan,
the
mx2,
the
mixed
zoning
district,
three
of
the
n
districts,
two
of
the
transitional
districts,
the
rx
p2,
the
civic
and
institutional
facilities,
which
is
the
drake
owned
property,
mostly
and
then
pud,
and
then
we
have
the
future
land
use.
J
So
this
is
the
comprehensive
planned
land
use
map.
Poor
land
use
is
designated
the
low
density,
residential,
low,
medium
density,
residential
neighborhood,
mixed
use
in
public
or
semi-public.
So
this
is
partially
the
piece
that
we're
asking
for
you
to
look
at.
You
know
is
this
in
conformance,
or
can
it
be
amended
so
that
it
is-
and
in
this
case
we
aren't
looking
for
any
kind
of
land
use,
designation
change,
so
the
description
of
the
urban
renewal
project?
J
When
we
list
urban
renewal
projects,
we
used
to
be
able
to
be
relatively
general
and
just
say
we
were
going
to
extend
a
street
and
we
didn't
really
and
talk
about
the
additional
improvements
around
it.
Traffic
lights,
trails,
those
sorts
of
things,
but
now
we
have
to
be
a
little
more
specific
and
sometimes
with
specificity.
J
You
get
a
little
too
specific
and
you
have
to
go
back
and
amend
things.
So
we
are
seeing
a
few
more
amendments
because
of
that.
So
in
this
case
we
are
describing
a
mixed-use
project
that
we
expect
to
go
into
this.
The
tif
district,
it's
about
108,
000
square
feet,
98
square
feet
of
that
is
commercial
with
120
dwelling
units.
J
Just
a
quick
slide
on
the
timeline,
so
the
review
process
requires
that
we
set
a
public
hearing
which
we
did
december
21st
at
council.
State
code
does
not
require
a
neighborhood
meeting,
but
we
typically
do
that
with
city
of
des
moines
had
that
meeting
last
week
the
neighborhood
was
in
support
of
the
project
january
19th.
Just
two
days
ago
we
had,
or
yesterday
we
had
the
taxing
entities.
Consultation
meeting
we
had
two
of
them
show
up.
Everything
went
fine.
J
Tonight
is
the
plan
and
zoning
commission
meeting,
and
we
intend
to
take
this
to
city
council
february
7th,
and
this
I
know,
is
beyond
the
purview
of
tonight's
meeting,
but
I
just
thought
you
might
be
interested
in
the
actual
development
project,
so
I
added
a
few
more
slides
of
that.
So
the
tiff
district
that
we're
talking
about
is
the
entire
block.
However
phase
one.
J
J
J
A
rendering
of
the
proposed
building
five
stories
with
three
stories
closer
to
the
sidewalks,
of
course,
the
residential
units
and
the
square
or
the
commercial
five
different
unit
sizes.
A
lot
of
people
ask
for
the
square
feet
and
the
rent
rates.
So
I
put
those
in
here-
it's
not
expected
to
be
built
until
24,
so
things
may
change
with
both
the
square
footage
and
the
rent
rates.
But
at
least
you
know
kind
of
what
the
developer
is
thinking
about.
J
A
J
E
J
H
Just
to
clarify
yeah,
that
was
just
you
know.
This
plan
is
coming
forward.
There's
something
that's
kind
of
pushing
it
along,
but
the
development
project
that
naomi
shared
in
and
of
itself
isn't
isn't
what's
before
us
tonight.
It
isn't
the
you
know
the
specifics
of
what
you're
asked
to
vote
on
it's
just
more
of
an
fyi
to
because
I'm
sure
everybody's
heard
about
it,
the
media
and
stuff.
We
just
wanted
to
be
open
about
just.
J
E
E
E
Do
we
know
what
do
we
know
what
the
effective
housing
affordability
of
this
region
of
town
is
like,
for
example,
we
do
know
that
we
know
that
affordability
is
1.3
x
me,
you
know
ami,
and
we
know
that
affordability
ceases
to
be
accessible
accessible
once
we
sort
of
exceed
30
of
monthly
take-home
income.
Do
we
know
with
respect
to
carpenter
as
a
whole,
because,
obviously
this
project-
I
mean
this
right
next
to
that.
E
We're
identifying
right
next
to
drake
awesome
project
right
on
the
varsity
theater
suite
now
right
down
the
street
from
me,
can't
wait
for
it
to
be
done.
However,
we're
looking
at
the
whole
of
carpenter
and
we're
starting
to
look
at
what
is
30
of
monthly
take-home
for
the
entire
carpenter.
Do
we
know
what
that
is.
E
Because
I
do
like,
for
example,
like
effect,
iowa
is
like
doing
doing
work
on
what
actual
what
true
affordability
is,
because
I
think,
there's
a
significant
diversity
in
this
part
of
town
and
if
we
are
to
use
tiff
in
the
way
that
it
is
actually
proposed
here.
I
guess
my
question
is:
has
anything
sorry,
a
few
questions?
Sorry,
is
it,
as
you
know,
so
is
anything
in
this
plan
different
with
respect
to
how
tiff
is
intended
to
be
used
following
this
being
approved
and
following
district
coming
in?
E
J
J
E
Maybe
so,
as
far
as
so
we
we
don't
have
anything,
we
haven't
identified
any
strategies
we're
intending
to
pursue
here
to
ensure
that
we
aren't
causing
displacement
of
individuals.
Who
be
you
know
basically
priced
out
of
this,
or,
for
example,
is,
is
there
any
do
we
have
any
strategy
that
will
hopefully
either
reduce
displacement
of
individuals
who
live
here
or
if
displacement
occurs,
will
minimize
the
impact
of
their
access
to
services
or
to
other
housing?
Well,.
J
J
E
Is
there
any
reason
we
couldn't
actually
tie
into
our
plan
or
into
our
development
agreements
some
other
way
to
make
sure
that
we
aren't
seeing
negative
displacements
or
inequities?
We
see
with
tiff
again,
because
tiff
the
data
on
tiff
indicates
that
the
community
is
typically
subsidizing
the
developers
and,
if
we're
saying
that
we
want
to
make
life
better
for
the
community,
I'm
not
sure
we
should
have
them.
A
E
E
My
argument
would
be
this
again
if
we
are
not
actually
putting
in
any
restrictions
that
are
going
to
avoid
the
the
economic
inequities
that
we
see
or
not
going
to
be
preventing
the
displacements
of
those
who
reside
in
that
area,
then
we're
again
don't
appear
to
be.
Although
I
understand
I
actually
read
the
document,
I
get
it.
I
know
that
we're
saying
we
think
this
agrees
with
it,
but
that
piece,
economical
and
sustainable
investment
policies
with
no
statement
of
what
our
strategy
is
for
ensuring
we
get.
H
The
other
point
I
did
want
to
make
is
this
is
a
public
hearing
item,
so
we
also
need
to
see
if
there's
anybody
in
the
audience
would
like
to
speak
on
the
item,
and
then
we
can
come
back
the
you
know
the
commission
can
close
the
hearing
and
then
have
discussion
and
ask
you
know
that
sort
of
stuff
too.
So
this
is
from
a
procedural
standpoint.
Let's
not
let's
not
not,
let's
not
forget
about
asking.
If
there's
anybody
in
the
public
that
wishes
to
speak
on,
that
sounds.
A
A
L
Yeah,
taylor,
weber,
1334,
kerry
avenue.
I
I
really
appreciate
your
comments.
Chris
I've
been
attending
the
city
council
meetings
regularly
for
quite
a
while
now
watching
items
like
these
come
through
and
an
aggressive
amount
of
tif
spending
that
is
just
going
back
to
developers
and
other
issues
that
I
think
chris
more
eloquently
pointed
out.
So
I
think
what
I'd
like
to
just
do
is
echo
that
concern
that.
Yes,
maybe
that's
not
on
your
plates
right
now
on
this
item,
but
in
my
opinion
it
could
be.
L
You
could
add
direction
for
how
this
money
will
get
used
in
what
manner
it
gets
used.
I
I
appreciate
the
idea
that
we're
trying
to
provide
diversity
of
housing
options
and
affordability-
that's
not
affordable.
It
just
simply
isn't
right.
The
reality
of
where
we're
at
as
a
city
is
drastically
lacking,
affordable
housing
in
this
area
of
town
is
no
different.
So
I
appreciate
the
goal,
but
there's
nothing
in
here.
That
shows
me
what
the
actual
action
might
be
to
ensure
we
meet
that
goal.
L
So
again,
I
would
encourage
like
outlining
that
in
there
another
big
thing
I
think,
is
missing
in
here.
Unless
the
ms,
I
didn't
see,
it
is
food
scarcity,
food
insecurity,
this
area,
town,
near
campus
and
in
this
area
largely
access
to
fresh
produce,
access
to
affordable
meals
for
families
of
four
that
are
already
spending
thirteen
hundred
dollars
on
rent
according
to
what's
affordable.
There
again
just
things
that
I
think
we
have
a
huge
opportunity
here
to
address.
L
I
will
say
plainly:
I've
disagreed
with
council
as
they
voted
to
pass
these
things
and
move
them
through
saying
their
hands
are
tight
and
they
can't
do
a
whole
lot.
So
I
feel
like
this
is
the
opportunity
to
make
sure
that
we
are
actually
doing
things
that
are
impacting
the
city
and
the
residents
and
not
just
developers
that
I
think
I
heard
a
number
get
like
90,
some
percent
of
the
tif
money
or
something
that
goes
back
so
again.
L
A
M
We
need
to
make
sure
that
before
we
start
rezoning
things
for
for
big
developers,
we
are
making
sure
that
those
developers
are
committed
to
helping
our
community.
I
want
to
see
some
of
these
apartments
available
below
the
poverty
line.
I
want
to
see
them
available
well
below
the
poverty
line.
If
we're
going
to
make
any
sort
of
impact
on.
M
M
G
Sorry
I
have
a
question
on
the
boundary
of
the
map,
so
the
corner
right
there,
where
you
have
the
cursor.
There
are
a
number
of
properties
that
I
question.
Why
they're
not
included
in
the
boundary,
as
well
as
the
the
old
cardinal
cleaning
building
and
the
building
directly
east
of
it,
because
we
went
down
and
we
grabbed
whatever
we
wanted
south
of
university
grabbed
a
little
bit
north
of
forest.
G
J
So
part
of
the
reason
to
go
as
far
east
as
mlk
was,
that
is
the
boundary
of
our
opportunity
zone
we
expected.
Perhaps
some
developers
would
be
interested
in
that
opportunity
zone.
I
don't
know
if
you're
familiar
just
very
quickly,
it's
a
federal
program
that
allows
tax
breaks
for
any
sort
of
capital
gains
that
are
invested
in
opportunity
zone
areas.
J
J
J
J
J
A
N
J
E
I
mean
I
get.
I
guess
I
would
again
aggressively
agree
with
the
commenters
who
hear
this
evening,
that
by
just
saying
we're
not
going
to
be
thinking
more
strategically
about
how
we
actually
are
going
to
restrict
the
use
of
tiff
in
these
would
be
very,
very
helpful
again.
Yes,
we
did
have
a
meeting
with
with
the
development
department
it
was.
It
was
identified
that
we,
we
don't
have
a
a
known.
E
We
don't
have
a
circulated
strategy
for
how
we
are
using
tiff
in
a
manner
that
makes
this
complying
with
best
practice.
Tiffany's
existence
since
1952
invented
in
california
and
even
the
2010s
california,
basically
said,
there's
certain
things
that
tiff
does
not
work
well
for
and
is
unable
to
avoid
inequities.
If
it's
used
for
those
things
I
I
really
believe
we
should
be
using
best
practices
on
that
that
we've
learned
there
and
if
we
aren't,
we
aren't
in
compliance
with
the
objective
of
the
plan,
which
is
paraphrasing
again,
economic,
economically
equitable
and
sustainable
investment
policies.
E
E
I
mean
right
now:
they're
asking
us
to
say:
is
this:
in
compliance
with
des
moines
wider
plan?
Okay,
we
can
say
yes
or
no.
I
would
argue
right
now.
It
is
not.
What
is
it?
What
is
the
step
from
there?
I
agree
that
there's
a
process
here
that
we
cannot
control
the
whole
process
here
right
now,
though,
is
this
in
you
know
I'm
voting
no
on
this
because
I
don't
believe
it
hits
that
objective,
which
is
you
know
again
how
I
paraphrased
it,
but
will
that
change
everything
will
that
make
this
plan
different?
A
O
Madam
chair,
I
think
that,
as
I
understood
the
the
discussion,
the
the
the
parcel
or
the
parcels
in
question
in
terms
of
the
project
is
on
the
limited
one,
and
I
think
that
the
discussion
tonight
has
indicated
more
research,
that's
needed
in
terms
of
further
projects
in
the
area.
However,
this
project
is
already
here
before
us
tonight,
which
seems
like
something
that
will
be
of
benefit
to
the
city
as
a
whole.
E
And
can
I
make
a
clarification
there
make
sure
I'm
clear
and
clear
here
for
what
will
say,
and
so
what
what
naomi
I
think
is
presented
is
saying
that
we
cannot
go
and
get
tiff
dollars
until
we
approve
the
district
right.
So
if
we
don't
approve
this
thing
can't
go
get
tif
dollars.
This
project
right
here
has
seemed
to
indicate,
as
as
every
developer
does
that
this
project
cannot
go
forward.
E
Even
though
it's
going
to
make
us
tons
of
money,
it
cannot
go
forward
without
the
tif
dollars,
because
the
market
won't
support
the
investment
in
this,
even
at
the
margins
that
we're
projecting
for
this
without
those
tiff
dollars.
So
if
we're
saying
the
project
is
good,
I
agree
with
this
project.
I
really
really
am
hopeful
for
this
project.
I
think
drake
is
a
responsible.
E
Is
a
responsible
investor
in
the
community.
Here,
I
think,
they're,
probably
the
best
developer.
We
could
be
having
to
take
the
active
interest
they
have
been
taking
over
the
course
of
the
years,
not
to
not
disagree
with
that.
If
the
question
is
what
do
we
do
if
we
say
no
on
this
plan
and
we
get
overruled
fine,
the
plan
keeps
going
right
if
we
say
no
on
this
and
someone
listens
to
us
to
say
well,
no,
this
plan
needs
to
be
revised.
H
H
H
That
was
that
I
thought
you
said.
That
was
your
motion,
but
I
didn't.
I
didn't
want
to
speak
for
you.
I
had
that
you
were
moving
approval
but
that
you
would
like
a
tip
to
be
studied
and
to
address
the
question.
I
mean
we'll
come
up
with
better
language
after
we'll
listen
back
to
the
dialogue,
but
to
address
the
issues
that
have
been
raised
and
that's.
P
H
E
H
The
as
was
mentioned
earlier,
the
urban
rural
planning
of
itself.
You
know
that's,
not
a
development
agreement.
We
only
as
a
point
of
interest,
showed
you
that
project
and
talked
about
the
specifics
of
it,
as
as
a
point
of
interest
to
understand
what
is
starting
the
process
of
looking
on
this
renewal
plan.
H
So
I
want
to
make
sure
clear
that
the
commission
and
to
the
commission
and
to
the
audience
that
the
commission's
not
voting
on
that
that
the
mixed
use
project-
that's
not
before
you
the
invest,
the
the
particulars
of
that,
whether
or
not
it
should
receive
incentives.
What's
before
you
is
the
larger
urban
rural
plan
and
of
itself.
That's
very
broad
that
talks
about
the
points
that
naomi
mentioned,
of
addressing
housing
and
infrastructure
than
other
things
that
is
what's
before
you.
H
This
document
that's
been
flipped
through
and
that's
what
you're
asked
to
make
a
yes,
no
recommendation
on
if
you
want
to
add
other
things
of
things
that
you
would
like
addressed
like
will
has
done
in
his
motion.
That's
on
the
floor.
You
certainly
can
do
that.
That'll,
be
part
of
the
record
it'll
be
received
by
the
council.
H
The
motion
is
that
wool
is
moving,
that
yes,
the
the
carpenter.
I
wanted
to
get
the
right
name.
Carpenter
urban
real
plan
is
in
conformance
with
planned,
dsm
and
that,
as
in
the
future,
that
the
commission
requests
that
tiff
be
studied
to
address
some
of
the
questions
and
discussion
that
has
been
raised
here
today.
A
N
G
G
The
question
of
what
is
good
our
future
projects.
This
is
the
tip
of
the
iceberg
in
the
tif
district
I
mean
this
is
this
is
just
gonna
spur
further
development
and
if,
if
affordable
housing
is
gonna,
be
a
criteria
that
needs
to
be
a
criteria
for
the
developers
they
come
into
economic
development.
I
don't
believe
that's
underneath
this
group,
but
as
other
projects
come
online,
affordable
housing
is
going
to
be
removed
from
this
area,
they're
going
to
say
it's
replaced
with
affordable
housing.
Hopefully
it
is.
I
don't
know.
G
Q
Q
We
were
able
to
ask
many
questions,
30
minutes
before
the
actual
meeting
began.
Then
today
it's
just
here's
a
well.
We
had
a
presentation
from
naomi.
So
thank
you
for
that.
That
was
very
helpful,
but
I
also
questioned.
Why
is
this
project
by
itself
triggering
this
plan,
because
this
is
an
area
of
town
that
has
a
momentum
going
there's
a
lot
of
development,
that's
taking
place
along
university
along
forest
thanks
to
drake
and
major
park.
So
what
is
triggering
the
need
for
this
specific
district
and
I
think.
B
Q
Also
concerning
others
here
in
the
commission
as
well,
so
I
have
a
hard
time
reconciling
that
when
there
are
other
parts
of
town
that
may
need
this
as
well.
So
how
are
we
prioritizing?
I
know
this
is
you
know
hindsight
now
that
the
presentation
is
over?
How
are
we
prioritizing
these
plans?
Why
are
these
areas?
Is
it
the
project
itself?
That's
triggering
this.
Q
That's
why
we
have
to
move
quickly
again,
I'm
not
going
to
continue
on
on
this
tangent,
but
essentially
there
is
an
area
of
town
that
we
see
a
lot
of
development
taking
place
without
this
district.
So
why
is
that
not?
Why
are
we
not
letting
that
happen
organically,
that
those
are
the
questions
that
I
have
before
the
we
got
the
to
vote
on
this
motion.
E
I
sort
of
want
to
echo
that,
because
I
think
naomi
indicated
that
opportunity
zone
is
one
of
the
drivers
of
this
there's
a
project
here
which
actually
we're
also
saying,
isn't
actually
being
shown
to
us
right
now.
It's
a
project
that,
theoretically,
maybe
hopefully
this
will
go
and
it
seems
like
it
will,
but
to
your
point,
it's
already
going
without
right.
Tiff
is
supposed
to
be
an
investment,
but
for
right
it's
it's
a
need.
We
need
this
thing.
Otherwise
this
won't
go
right,
which
also
leads
us,
the
other
question
of
affordability.
E
What
is
affordable
right?
I
mean
again,
affordability,
our
definition
of
it.
We
don't
have
to
be
restricted
if
we
say
yep
we're
going
to
have
more
affordable
housing,
affordable
housing
at
90,
000
annual
salary
is
a
very,
very
different
animal
than
affordability
that
currently
exists.
In
that
neighborhood
I
mean
we're,
I
think,
we're
taking
out
a
pretty.
You
know
popular
bar
too
or
something
theoretically.
E
A
H
Will
made
a
motion
that
the
commission
find
the
carpenter
urban
renewal
plan,
in
conformance
with
plan
dsm
and,
as
part
of
that
motion
is
requesting,
that
more
study
be
done
upon
tiff
and
how
it's
used,
and
I
also
picked
up
well
that
you're
hoping
that
that
would
occur.
Maybe
before
a
next
urban
real
plan
is
presented.
The
commission,
that's
what
I
have
in.
E
Yeah
for
one
friendly
amendment,
I'm
sorry
will
to
is:
can
we
would
we
be
able
to
add
that
the
the
city
study,
the
effective
housing,
affordability
of
the
region
being
impacted,
I.e
a
survey
of
those
residents?
What
the
actual
income
is
of
those
residents
allowing
us
to
understand
what
is
the
actual
level
of
affordability
in
this
in
this
region,
as
opposed
to
just
using
polk
county
wide
numbers,
because
the
polk
county
averages
do
pull
up
things
when
we
have
micro
economies
here.
E
G
I
The
applicant
has
requested
that
the
two
parcels
be
rezoned
from
the
n3a
district,
which
is
a
single
household
residential
district
to
the
nx-1
neighborhood
district,
which
is
a
multi-family
district.
The
subject
property
is
located
at
the
northwest
corner
of
fleur
drive
and
willowmere
drive.
Like
I
said,
it's
comprised
of
two
parcels.
The
northernmost
parcel
currently
contains
a
single
family
house.
I
The
blue
lines
on
this
map
show
the
current
zoning
districts.
So
you
can
see
that
the
subject
property
is
in
an
area,
that's
predominantly
n3a,
just
to
the
north.
So
there's
two
houses
in
between
the
subject:
property
and
this
apartment
complex
to
the
north,
that
apartment
complex,
is
owned,
nx2
and
then
the
park
fleur
condos
tower
to
the
south
and
a
little
bit
to
the
east
of
the
subject:
property
that
is
owned.
Nx3
the
nx2
and
the
nx3
are
the
more
intense
multi-family
districts.
I
This
map
here
shows
the
city's
comprehensive
land
use
plan.
The
light
yellow
is
the
low-density
residential
and
then
this
orangish
color
is
the
multi-family
residential
and
they
are
requesting
that
the
land
use
plan
be
amended
for
these
two
parcels
here.
I
know
that
it's
shaded
here
so
it's
hard
to
tell
but
currently
they're
the
same
shade
as
yellow
as
these
others
in
the
area.
I
The
subject
property
is
this
yellow
box,
and
I'm
just
providing
this
to
give
you
some
context
of
the
density
that
already
exists
along
floor
drive
just
to
the
north.
There
are
two
apartment
complexes,
plus
the
druid:
hill
town,
homes,
kind
of
behind
the
rollins
mansion
and
then
here
to
the
south
and
east
again.
Is
the
park
place
on
floor
the
multi-family
tower?
I
I
B
P
I
I
This
is
one
example,
and
then
here's
I
think
this
was
the
original.
They
revised
it
to
this
version
here,
where
they
spread
the
facade
materials
out.
More
and
again,
the
site
plan
is
not
before
you
tonight,
so
these
are
just
some
conceptual
elevations
that
they've
proposed.
It's
not
anything
that
the
commission
is
proving
tonight
and
now
I'm
going
to
go
through
a
series
of
photos
to
give
you
a
feel
for
the
area.
This
is
that
existing
house
that
would
be
removed.
I
I
Again,
this
is
looking
from
willowmere
across
park
to
the
high-rise,
that's
just
to
the
south
and
east.
So
staff
took
a
look
at
it
and
we
believe
that
the
floor
drive
corridor
is
the
appropriate
place
for
a
multi-family.
It's
in
the
city's
goals
and
objectives
to
provide
density.
Where
we
can.
We
feel
that
these
that
this
site
is
appropriate
for
some
level
of
multi-family,
as
I
get
I'll
get
to
in
the
conditions.
I
I
We've
recommended
that
there'd
be
no
more
than
15
dwelling
units
on
the
site
and
we've
recommended
that
all
buildings
with
dwelling
units
in
them
shall
front
a
public
street
that
would
prevent
any
building
from
being
built
at
the
back
corner.
That
would
kind
of
face
the
rear,
property
line
or
their
side
property
line.
I
I
But
I
would
just
mention
that
it
would
it
given
these
conditions
that
all
primary
buildings
have
to
front
a
public
street.
It
would
probably
be
a
challenge
for
them
to
get
15
dwelling
units
on
the
site,
but
they
might
be
able
to
be
creative
but,
like
I
said,
our
recommendation
really
is
that
they
should
just
have
row
homes
front
the
streets.
I
You
can
see
that
we've
had
a
significant
number
of
cards
come
back
in
opposition,
more
than
20
of
the
land
within
200
feet
of
the
site
is
in
opposition.
So
when
this
gets
to
city
council,
it
will
require
a
super
majority
vote,
meaning
that,
in
order
for
the
rezoning
to
pass,
they'll
need
six
of
seven
council
members
to
vote
in
favor
of
the
rezoning.
I
H
Yes,
it
would
be
binding.
I
believe
that
the
two
and
a
half
stories
is
the
standard,
but
then,
with
a
type
one
or
type,
two
design
alternative.
You
could
ask
for
more
through
the
site
plan
process,
and
so
what
this,
our
condition
would
do
is
just
right
off
the
bat
say
on
wilmer
two
stories:
that's
it,
and
so
you
wouldn't
be
able
to
ask,
through
the
site
plan
process,
for
a
relief
of
that.
E
So
sorry,
apologies.
I
thought
I
was
understanding,
so
if
this
is
approved
in
a
change
of
zoning
as
the
way
it's
written
right
now,
we're
recommending
change
the
zoning
with
a
height
restriction,
the
way
that
this
is
going
through.
If
someone
comes
through
and
says,
I
want
a
four-story
one
and
they
can
even
get
approval
of
the
surrounding
area.
That's
not
something
that
would
be
possible
or
that
would
require
a
rezoning
they'd.
H
So
that's
the
the
point
of
having
zoning
conditions
through
the
zoning
process
versus
leaving
it
open-ended
through
the
development
review
process.
If
there's
a
specific
concern,
then
it's
appropriate
to
bring
those
in
most
of
the
time
we'll
we
will
tell
you
that
we
we
don't.
We
we
think
135
and
the
design
standards
should
be
left
to
that
process,
but
there
there
are
cases
where
it's
appropriate
and
we
felt
it
was
here.
I
F
H
Sure
sure
happy
to
do
so,
the
so
the
the
planning
and
design
ordinance
is
which
is
chapter
135.
That's
where
our
building
forms
that
you
know
the
shape
and
the
setback
and
the
height
of
the
buildings
and
what
type
of
what
the
building
should
look
like.
That's
where
those
those
standards
are
housed
and
so
135
chapter
135
of
the
code
in
the
nx1
district
only
allows
the
road
building
type
which
bert's
finding
it.
H
There's
also
house
types
c
and
d,
which
c
and
d
are
kind
of
one
is
more
c,
is
probably
more
of
the
cottage
style
and
then
d
is
more
of
the
kind
of
traditional
four
square
type
housing
and
those
can
be
two
and
a
half
stories
as
well.
I
believe,
and
but
you
can
use
that
house
form
in
a
multi-family
district
to
house
up
to
four
units.
H
I
Yeah
yeah
so
up
on
the
screen.
Now
is
the
specifications
for
a
row
house
building
or
the
road
building
type,
which
is
nx1.
They
would
have
to
comply
with
this
first
column.
Here
the
height
is
on
the
next
sheet.
Yeah,
I'm
just
going
to
point
out
here.
It
says
that
each
building
has
to
have
at
least
three
units
in
any
building
with
a
maximum
of
five
units
in
any
building.
H
And
the
I
mean
this
is
a
lot
of
information,
but
the
anything
that
you're
seeing
here
you
can
get
relief
of
this
from
the
planning
and
zoning
commission
or
certain
things
can
be
waived
by
staff.
So
that's
why,
as
staff,
we
are
recommending
on
willamer
just
two
stories:
it's
in
the
zoning
is
a
zoning
condition.
There's
no
discussion
about
it
ever.
You
know
again,
but.
H
H
So
if
you
feel,
if
you
want
to
go
back
to
the
staff
right
the
conditions,
if
you
think
I
mean
we
have
a
lot
of
meeting
ahead
of
us
still,
you
know
we
have
the
applicant.
We
have
neighbors.
So
I
don't
want
to
go
too
much
further
than
this,
but
just
know
that
the
intent
was
it
for
it
to
be
an
ore
and
that
we
could
massage
it.
H
T
I'm
here
to
present,
as
we
said
about
this
development
on
fleur,
a
little
history
about
me,
I
own
premier,
construction,
been
in
business
17
years
born
and
raised
on
the
south
side.
I
recently
purchased
a
home
in
the
southern
hills:
neighborhood
I'm
a
member
of
georgia's
southwestern
hills,
neighborhood
association.
T
T
Before
I
go
into
that,
I
do
have
a
couple
other
projects
I
want
to
just
show
some
history
on.
I
have
a
project
on
south
of
the
river
yeah.
There
we
go
the
elevate
town
home
project
that
we're
doing
this
is
in
a
blighted
area
and
we
recently
purchased
the
bar
and
have
closed
that
down
because
of
the
violence
in
the
area.
T
So
this
is
a
positive
impact
to
the
city,
and
this
is,
I
also
have
another
project
on
westover
that
I'll
be
in
front
of
you
all
of
you
here
in
the
next
month
that
I've
purchased
and
I
have
a
project
on
southwest
9th
across
from
a
crate
park
as
well.
So
I
say
all
this
because
I'm
committed
to
des
moines
in
building
in
des
moines,
I'm
committed
to
the
missing
middle
housing.
T
I
have
read
the
entire
book
of
missing
middle
housing,
so
the
city
of
des
moines
wants
this
density,
the
city
of
des
moines.
I
worked
with
cody
through
the
process
of
this
tax
abatement
schedule
and
you
know,
he's
worked
really
hard
and
the
staff
has
worked
really
hard.
It
incentivizing
this
type
of
housing.
T
So
this
is
a
need
in
this
area
and
with
the
investment
in
the
soccer
stadium,
the
south
of
gray's
lake
redevelopment
plan,
we've
got
over
750
million
dollars,
that's
going
to
be
on
the
southwest
side,
and
I'm
here
to
help
contribute
to
that.
I'm
not
going
anywhere
and
I've
purchased
a
home
in
southern
hills.
I
have
the
elevate
project.
T
I
have
property
on
southwest
ninth
and
I
have
purchased
this
property
to
to
go
through
the
belief
of
the
scope
come
alongside
of
the
city
and
I
believe
in
what
the
city
wants
and
I'm
here
to
along
with
staff,
I
have
a
great
rep,
great
reputation
with
all
the
staff
and
I
enjoy
working
with
the
city.
When
I
really
do
so
talking
about
the
project
we
conducted
a
meeting
and
I'll.
Let
george
talk
about
the
meeting
a
couple
of
the
concerns
buildings
too
tall.
T
T
At
my
cost,
I'm
working
with
mid-american
to
move
the
light
pole,
that's
in
the
middle
of
the
development,
because
the
plan
for
the
floor
project,
it's
got
a
hitch
in
the
sidewalk.
The
pole
is
making
the
sidewalk
have
a
hitch
in
it,
and
I
don't
want
that
visually
from
fluid.
I
want
the
wall
to
be
nice
and
straight
and
the
fence
to
be
nice
and
straight
to
match
wakanda
and
the
park
floor.
So
I'm
working
with
the
mid-american
to
move
that
pole
down
so
and
then
the
building's
too
tall.
T
T
T
T
Snow
removal
we'll
deal
with
that
with
a
private
snow
removal
company
through
the
hoa
storm
water
mitigation,
bishop
engineering
will
take
care
of
all
the
proper
mitigation
engineering
with
the
city
of
des
moines.
Has
re,
has
really
ramped
up
this
year
and
there's
zero
compromise
on
that.
So
we'll
follow
all
the
necessary
codes
there
and
the
design
of
the
buildings.
So
I
want
to
talk
about
the
design
of
the
buildings.
A
little
bit,
I'm
sure
we
all
know
about
the
pinnacle
on
fleur.
T
T
I
think
we
see
a
theme
here.
This
is
a
this
is
a
modern
architecture,
and
if
you
look
at
the
I
forgot,
where
I
saw
it-
it's
not
in
the
comprehensive
land
use
but
somewhere
within
the
city
of
des
moines,
chapter
135
or
somewhere
in
my
research.
I
found
that
this
corridor
is
actually
labeled
a
modern
architecture
in
this
corridor
on
fleur.
So
I
feel
my
vision
for
this
is
to
continue
with
this
architecture
from
willowmere
to
downtown,
so
we
wipe
out
all
of
the
the
single-family
homes
from
willowmere
down.
T
Plan
I
have
not
acquired
the
land
to
the
north.
I've
talked
to
the
rest
of
the
homeowners,
so
I'm
going
to
jump
forward
here,
so
we've
got
an
aplex
and
a
seven
plex
fronting
floor
and,
as
you
go
down,
it's
the
same
exact
building
with
the
fence
with
to
match.
Wakanda,
you
have
the
apartments
and
then
you
have
the
pinnacle
on
floor
and
aib.
T
This
is
a
note
and
major
node
to
the
city
of
des
moines.
This
is
the
gateway
to
downtown
and
the
corner
of
willamera.
Fleur
has
been
overgrown
for
over
25
years,
and
I
don't
know
if
we've
driven
down
floor
to
see
what
it
looks
like.
Currently,
it's
been
cleaned
up
and
I
think
the
vision
for
this
is
something
that
I
would
like
to
see
as
I
drive
down
fleur
into
downtown,
and
this
density
is
exactly
what
the
missing
middle
is
all
about,
and
the
city
is
incentivizing
a
nine-year
tax
abatement
for
this
type
of
housing.
T
So
I
want
to
talk
about
the
city's
recommendation
on
the
primary
street.
I
can
agree
to
everything
the
the
two-story
on
willowmere
I
can.
I
can
adjust
the
plants,
fluid
drive
approach,
I've
already
taken
it
out
the
primary
buildings
facing
public
street.
I
have
an
issue
with
I
mean
with
the
land
acquisition
and
the
rising
cost
to
build.
11
units
is
just
it's
not
it's
not.
T
I
can't
pencil
it
out
with
11
units
and
with
the
future
development
of
this
you
can
see
if
I
acquire
the
property
to
the
north
and
you
put
that
that
restriction
in
place.
I've
got
an
acre
of
green
space
behind
that
frontage.
It
just
doesn't
make
sense
to
to
not
have
the
not
force
me
to
face
a
public
street,
because
I
can
only
get
one
seven
plex
on
the
the
property
to
the
north.
So
if
we
look
at
that
property,
would
we
have
a
different
restriction
based
upon
the
rezoning
of
that
moving
forward?
T
Would
be
my
question
so
in
this
application
I
feel
that
the
the
secondary
structure
should
be
allowable
because
of
the
future
use
of
this
and
the
density
index.
One
density
is
17
units
per
acre
allowable
and
I'm
up.
I
am
proposing
15
units
per
acre,
so
the
density
is
allowed
and
I
just
asked
relief
from
this
staff
on
the
staff,
not
ex
they're,
not
facing
a
public
street.
T
As
far
as
the
architecture
goes,
I've
kind
of
touched
on
that
listen,
I
just
bought
a
brick
mid-century,
modern
in
southern
hills,
all
brick,
my
I'm
remodeling
right
now,
mid-century
modern,
every
piece
of
furniture
is
going
to
be
mid-century
modern.
So
I
get
it,
but
my
vision
for
this
corridor
is
that
of
the
of
the
where
the
vision
is
going.
T
I've
got
the
same
architect
as
the
pinnacle
on
fleur
so,
and
the
buildings
are
similar
in
design
and
consistent,
even
with
the
aib
campus,
as
we
drive
down
flew
or
drive,
so
the
vision
goes
further
than
what
I'm
trying
to
impose
on
the
neighborhood.
It's
consistent
with
the
current
architecture,
the
vision
of
the
future
architecture
for
this
corridor.
T
U
They
have
these
two
stories
and
we
have
this
need
for
this.
There
are
currently
four
homes,
town
homes
condominiums
on
the
market
on
the
southwest
side
of
des
moines,
you
know
as
compared
to
88
in
west
des
moines.
I
know
I'm
taking
a
small
subsection
of
des
moines
versus
a
large
section
of
west
des
moines.
There
were
49
cells
in
the
last
390
days,
or
so
it's
nearly
not
enough.
U
We
all
know
we're
in
a
low
inventory
market,
but
what's
being
lost
here,
is
that
the
60
plus
generation
that
have
raised
their
families
with
these
four
bedroom
two
stories-
and
there
are
a
lot
of
them
in
this
area
that
want
to
stay
in
the
area-
have
no
options,
are
very
limited
options.
A
lot
of
the
town
homes
that
are
available,
like
the
hubble
ones,
on
wakanda
they're,
very
high
priced.
U
You
look
at
the
park
floor
ones.
You
know,
I
know
they
have
a
lot
of
amenities
but
you're
paying
700
to
11
to
1400,
just
in
homeowners,
association,
dudes
alone,
so
it
doesn't
make
it
affordable
for
these
people
that
want
to
sell
their
family
two
stories
get
into
something
affordable,
more
maintenance-free,
but
still
enjoy
the
areas
that
they
have
raised
their
families
in.
U
I
thought
I
think
you
guys
have
done
a
great
job
of
fluid
drive
and
people
want
to
be
close
to
gray's
lake
and
what
we've
done
with
water
works
and
close
to
the
airport
close
commute
to
downtown,
but
the
the
the
options
are
very
limited.
There
is
a
need
for
this
and
I
wish
we
could
do
more
than
the
15
units.
I
hope
he
does
get
the
northern
corridor
to
do
more
again.
That's
that's
really.
U
All
I
have
the
last
point
that
I
will
make
is
that
when
these
people
do
sell
their
two
stories,
you're
going
to
have
younger
families
moving
into
them,
the
neighborhood
needs
it.
The
cycle
of
a
neighborhood
goes
from
the
new
and
the
vibrant
with
the
kids,
and
then
it
starts
to
cycle
out,
and
this
area
is
dangerously
close
to
cycling
out
there
are
there
aren't
a
lot
of
kids
like
there
used
to
be
like
we
were
growing
up
in
that
neighborhood.
U
So
what's
next,
now
you
see
a
dilapidated
or
a
neighborhood
that
stops
thriving
and
and
then
we
get
to
a
point
to
where
we're
in
need
of
a
gentrific
gentrification.
We
don't
want
this
to
happen
to
this
area.
We
need
young
families
moving
into
these
two
stories,
but
it
starts
with
the
owners
of
the
two
stories
having
somewhere
to
live,
because
they
do
not
want
to
move
off
the
south
side.
U
V
Madame
commissioner
and
and
commissioners,
my
name
is
george
davis
and
I
represent
southwestern
hills,
neighborhood
association.
Thank
you
for
allowing
me
to
speak
adam.
The
developer
met
with
the
southwestern
hills,
neighborhood
association,
general
meeting
in
august
on
a
plan
that
would
include
park
avenue
and
it
was
a
brownstone
project
on
the
corner
of
park,
avenue
and
fleur,
and
we
had
over
104
members
attend
that
meeting.
V
But
in
southwestern
hills
we
do
want
general
members
involved,
so
we
called
a
general
membership
meeting
and
we
had
that
meeting
and
we
had
54
people
attend
that
meeting
and
the
minutes
are
on
our
website.
But
we
had
54
people
attend
that
meeting
and
of
the
54
people.
There
were
six
people
that
attended
that
meeting
that
were
in
the
300
or
the
200
foot
area
that
are
required
to
to
be
there.
Is
it
200
feet
or
300
feet
anyway,
that
there
were
six
people
there
and
the
adam
went
through
the
total
process?
V
The
financing?
What
would
be
impacted,
talked
about
snow
removal,
height
of
buildings.
Everything
was
brought
out
and
it
was
kind
of
a
an
open
discussion
meeting.
It
went
about
two
hours
and
at
the
end
of
the
meeting
of
the
six
people
that
were
there
from
the
300
foot
area
or
the
200
foot
required
area,
there
was
a
five.
There
was
a
four
a
three
to
two
vote
against,
but
three
to
two.
So
at
that
time
it
was
a
wash
and
of
the
people
that
were
left
from
that.
V
We
always
take
a
a
straw
vote
and
it
was
it
was
too
close
to
call
for
and
against.
It
was
about
20
to
20
or
something
like
that.
But
you
must
remember
in
this
type
of
meeting
a
lot
of
people
that
come
to
these
meetings
are
going
to
be
against
the
project
because
there
are
individual
homeowners
around
the
area.
So
I
was
surprised
that
we
had
that
kind
of
support
which
I
thought
was
was
very
good.
V
We
disagree
with
the
city's
recommendation
as
far
as
no
entry
or
exit
on
flew
or
drive
from
that
project,
and
right
now
the
only
exit
an
entrance
is
going
to
be
on
to
willemir
and
then
on
the
floor,
and
we
thought
it
would
be
a
better
concept
to
have
the
entrance
next
on
brewer
drive.
But
we
took
a
vote
again
from
our
board
and
we
strongly
support
this
project
on
a
9-0
on
the
10-member
board.
It
was
one
one
person
wasn't
there,
but
we
had
a
9-0
vote
for
the
project.
V
We
still
support
it
and
reflecting
on
matt's
comments
on
the
real
estate.
We
do
need
housing
in
the
neighborhood
and
if
I
were
to
take
you
on
a
tour
of
floor
drive,
I
want
you
to
imagine
coming
out
on
floor,
drive
on
park
avenue
and
you're
going
north
towards
gray's
lake
there's
very
little
housing
on
the
west
side
of
the
street.
V
Most
of
it
is
maldi
housing
projects
already
there
and
so
to
restrict,
I
think,
would
really
hurt
the
area
as
far
as
as
as
we
move
forward
on
this
now
through
drive
does
have
housing
on
the
east
side
of
florida
going
north
there
is
housing
there,
but
very
little
housing
on
the
west
side
as
we
move
forward,
and
we
addressed
every
comment
at
the
meeting.
Like
I
said
earlier,
he
was
very
open.
Every
comment
was
addressed,
and
I
mean
it
was
from
the
wildlife
birds.
What
even
had
a
comment
on
the
past
thing?
V
I
had
her
email.
What's
he
going
to
do
with
the
snow
with
this
project?
How
would
he
get
the
snow
removal
and
where
would
it
go?
As
I
was
wondering
how
I
was
going
to
get
out
of
my
individual
driveway,
but
anyway
there
was
a
he
addressed
every
question
and
we
as
a
board,
still
support
the
project.
100.
R
My
name
is
kevin
lammer,
I
live
off,
3006
fleur
drive
and
it
is
a
great
location.
I
live
directly
north
of
3006,
so
if
you
look
at
the
diagram
here,
let's
see
this
would
be
my
property
right
here
and
experiencing
my
time
living
there
as
far
as
traffic
goes
heading
from
north
to
south.
Turning
into
my
lane
isn't
anything
I've
had
a
problem
with
and
I'm
not
the
best
driver
myself,
so
you
just
have
to
put
a
signal
on
and
make
it
work.
R
R
R
A
W
I
do
want
to
thank
adam
the
developer
for
listening
to
the
comments
from
the
neighborhood,
and
I
do
personally
believe
that
this
site
is
a
more
appropriate
development
site
than
the
site
that
he
was
initially
looking
at
at
the
corner
of
park.
Avenue
and
floor
drive
my
concerns
I
do.
I
would
like
to
refer
the
commission
members
to
the
current
zoning,
so
we
are
currently
n3a
zoning,
which
is
stated
as
intended
to
preserve
the
style
and
character
of
residential
neighborhoods
developed
predominantly
during
the
1950s,
60s
and
70s.
W
The
south
side
is
unique
in
that
it
offers
some
of
the
best
examples
of
1950s
architecture
in
the
city
of
des
moines,
and
this
particular
neighborhood
does
have
some
great
examples
of
single-family
residences
that
you
can't
find
in
other
parts
of
the
city.
I
think
city
comments
are
greatly
appreciated,
because
the
biggest
challenge
to
our
street
would
be
a
project
that
presents
an
inappropriate
scale
to
our
our
neighborhood.
W
W
So
a
building
in
the
middle
of
the
site
is
a
little
bit
difficult
to
determine
whether
it
needs
a
sidewalk
on
the
back
side,
which
would
be
into
the
backyards
of
the
neighbor,
and
I
think
city's
comments
really
are
to
try
to
protect
the
nature
and
privacy
of
the
other
occupants
of
the
neighborhood.
So
internal
building,
I
think,
would
be
challenging
for
our
neighborhood,
but
also
challenging
for
the
development
of
those
to
comply
with
the
zoning
ordinance.
So
I
ask
you
to
consider
that
in
your
recommendations
tonight,
thank
you.
A
X
My
name
is
laura
coyle
pronouns.
Are
she
her?
I
live
at
3109
park
plaza
drive,
which
is
about
there's
about
four
properties
between
my
house
and
the
proposed
area,
and
what
I'd
like
to
say
is
that
the
original
reason
and
need
for
the
current
zoning
still
exists
and
has
not
changed
changing
the
zoning
will
not
benefit
our
neighborhoods
or
the
city.
It
only
benefits
the
business
owner,
proposing
it
and
not
the
neighborhoods
or
the
city.
This
business
proposal
will
absolutely
change
the
scale
and
character
of
our
mid-century
neighborhood,
which
is
the
whole
reason.
X
My
family
moved
to
this
neighborhood
and
decided
to
move
there
to
begin
with
the
business
owner
proposing
this
mentioned
potential
for
blight
and
running
down
the
neighborhood,
and
he
must
not
be
familiar
with
the
neighborhood
if
he
would
say
things
like
that,
because
if
you
look
at
the
property
values
and
the
condition
of
the
homes
in
the
these
neighborhoods
they're,
excellent
and
high,
he
mentioned
aging
out
and
lack
of
children.
There
are
over
20
children
on
our
street,
including
my
own
family,
and
this
is
a
neighborhood
that
exists
nowhere
else
in
des
moines.
X
Our
children
play
freely
on
the
street
going
from
house
to
house
in
what
you
imagine
from
something
that
you
see
in
movies,
from
the
50s
and
60s
and
adding
in
things
like
multi-family
housing
and
changing
the
aesthetics
of
our
neighborhood
will
drastically
change
this.
These.
These
are
historic
homes.
For
a
reason,
taking
historic
homes
out
to
put
in
different
buildings
will
completely
change
this
neighborhood.
You
will
never
get
it
back
when
they
mention
other
buildings
that
are
like
buildings
that
are
these
multi
family
or
whatever.
The
zoning
is.
X
These
are
clear
down
the
hill
on
floor,
they're
on
that
perimeter
of
our
neighborhood,
the
floor
being
an
exception.
Yes,
that
is
a
high-rise.
It
is
a
multi-multi-residential
area,
but
it
is
incredibly
unique
in
the
style
and
aesthetics
and
it
was
built
in
that
mid-century
time,
so
it
is
an
exception
and
it
is
very
different
than
what
they
are
proposing
to
build,
and
so,
additionally,
I
guess
I
have
another
minute
or
two,
I
would
say
you
cannot
replace
our
historical
homes,
they're
well
maintained.
X
I
feel
like,
if
you
support
this,
it
will
destroy
the
aesthetics
of
our
neighborhood,
and
I
have
major
concerns
about
building
these
multi-level
homes.
The
area
that
he's
proposing
is
the
highest
level
on
this
area.
It
already
is
much
raised
above
the
whole
area
around
it.
If
you
put
in
multi-level
real
homes,
it
will
overshadow
everything
and
take
over
the
area
and
it's
an
eyesore
right.
It
would
be
an
eyesore
right
in
the
middle
of
our
neighborhoods.
I
appreciate
you
listening
to
my
comments.
Thank
you.
Y
Y
Z
Z
AA
L
AA
Is
tony
gardner
I
live
at
2118
willamer
drive
directly
south
next
door
to
john
here
in
2006,
joe
henry
showed
me
2118,
willowmere
drive
and
knowing
this
area
was
rooted
in
the
core
values
and
principles
I
was
used
to
from
being
a
lifelong
southside
resident
resident.
This
home
purchase
felt
perfect.
In
the
past
16
years.
I
have
witnessed
at
least
a
dozen
vehicle
accidents
on
willemere
and
fleur,
countless
flooding
events
and
hundreds
upon
hundreds
of
students
walking
along
willemer
before
and
after
classes
at
brody.
AA
Residents
head,
we
had
zero
access
to
fleur
drive,
snow
plows
had
built
a
two
foot
impenetrable
wall
of
snow
and
for
36
hours.
It
was
impassable,
and
this
happens
multiple
times
every
single
year
in
our
neighborhood,
even
a
small
downburst
of
rain
causes
causes
localized
flooding
sandbags
at
the
bottom
of
willomer
have
been
in
place
for
years.
AA
AA
It
would
be
nice
to
see
several
small
changes
that
could
drastically
increase
safety
in
the
area
and,
speaking
of
kids,
our
little
stretch
of
willimer
has
15
kids,
so
many
kids.
In
fact,
four
years
ago
I
put
a
little
library
in
front
of
our
house.
That's
how
many
kids
are
on
our
street
so
as
an
attentive
resident
of
this
neighborhood.
I
see
these
concerns
on
a
regular
basis
and
they
are
very
real
to
add
high
density
homes
to
an
area
that
already
has
legitimate
infrastructure
and,
more
importantly,
legitimate
safety
concerns
would
be
negligent.
AA
It
would
also
be
very
irresponsible
to
rezone
the
development
to
the
nx1
zone
in
general.
I
understand
the
plan
dsm
goals
for
the
future,
but
that
shouldn't
mean
bending
the
rules
and
compromising
our
values.
To
achieve
that
goal,
I
don't
need
to
tell
you
the
codes,
but
municipal
code,
1343
states
nx1
allows
five
to
eight
homes
per
lot.
This
developer
proposes
10
lots
alone
on
the
20
on
the
20
or
excuse
me
under
the
3020
flew
a
lot
code.
AA
There
is
no
plan
for
waste
removal.
There
is
not
adequate
space
for
emergency
vehicles.
There
is
no
additional
space
to
plow
snow
without
it
running
into
the
properties
to
the
west,
and
this
was
never
discussed
and
there
is
zero
space
for
overflow
parking.
Should
residents
have
guests
in
terms
of
traffic,
we
only
have
12
homes
on
willowmere,
adding
60
cars
to
flu
or
drive.
May
not
seem
like
a
big
idea,
but
those
60
cars
are
going
on
to
willemir
more
than
doubling
the
density
that
we
already
have.
AA
And
most
noticeably,
the
four
unit
building
facing
west
west
sits
directly
on
top
of
the
large
oak
tree.
The
developer
has
so
proudly
referenced
in
his
logos
and
promises
the
residents
he
will
keep.
However,
in
the
plans,
it
is
not
possible.
So
for
the
record,
I
am
not
opposed
to
the
development
of
this
land.
I
am,
however,
opposed
to
the
rezoning
which
will
allow
for
this
high-rise
development.
AA
AB
Great
thanks,
hi,
my
name
is
bart
schmidt.
I
live
at
3210,
wakanda
court,
so
just
two
blocks
away
from
the
site.
In
fact
the
gentleman
who
is
proposing
this
is
a
new
neighbor
of
mine.
He
lives
about
five
houses
away.
He
moved
there
a
month
ago.
So
welcome
to
the
neighborhood.
I,
if
you
buy
an
adjourning
lock
to
your
house,
I'm
gonna,
I'm
gonna
be
very
concerned
anyways,
that's
the
joke!
How
many
of
you
have
been
to
willmar?
AB
AB
AB
AB
AB
AB
If
you
say
we
are
going
to
re-zone
this
area
to
multi-family
from
park
north
up
to
the
apartments
that
were
built
in
the
1960s,
fine
people
know
what
to
sell
their
property
for,
and
people
know
what
to
expect
what
they
should
be
investing
in
their
homes.
We've
all
everybody.
Who's
moved
to
this
neighborhood
in
the
last
10
years
has
been
doing
serious,
renovations,
major
investments.
AB
AB
So
I
encourage
you
if
you've
never
been
to
willamer
go
down
the
little
street.
It's
great.
I
encourage
you
to
continue
up
south
and
go
down
the
condo
court.
Follow
it
to
skips,
have
a
beverage
right,
but
you'll
see
what
this
neighborhood
looks
like,
and
this
would
really
be
a
bad
thing.
So,
if
I'm
wrong,
I'm
often
wrong.
That's
okay,
but
I
encourage
you
if
you
think
this
is
a
great
idea.
This
development
is
not
to
zone
this
particular
lot.
AB
L
I
understand
it's,
it's
always
easier
to
come
out
when
you're
against
something
and
you
get
fired
up,
but
it's
still
tough
like
it's
what
zero
degrees
out.
It's
snowed
right
like
it,
was
tough
to
come
here.
This
is
on
the
northeast
side
of
town.
The
project's
on
the
southwest
side
of
town
right
so
to
come
here
and
speak
up
is
really
important.
I
first
and
foremost
want
to
lift
up
what
they
said.
L
The
second
piece
I
would
say,
is
it's
great
that
we're
getting
some
of
the
areas
that
you
outlined
that
were
redeveloping
and
the
project
up
on
seventh
and
southwest
ninth
street
area.
But
what
I
would
say
is
if
we
got
our
hands
in
that
many
parts
of
the
pie
and
we're
trying
to
carve
out
exceptions
for
projects.
Maybe
are
we
taking
on
a
little
too
much
and
really
truly
servicing
the
community
in
that
area
and
working
through
those
things?
L
I
guess
the
other
piece
I
want
to
say
is:
I
appreciate
words
from
from
a
real
estate
individual
in
this
area,
but
that
doesn't
really
mean
it's
what's
best
for
homeowners
right.
That
means
that's!
What's
for
best
for
the
buying
and
selling
of
house
in
that
industry,
and
not
necessarily
the
community
as
a
whole.
L
I
myself
and
not
part
of
the
watchers
south
instead,
but
I
would
say,
notice
the
differences
in
the
votes
between
the
executive
committee
and
when
it
was
an
entire
general
meeting
showing
up
and
who
is
the
neighborhood
that
is
then
being
represented.
So
in
those
situations
where
almost
95
of
the
people
were
against
it
and
then
50
of
the
people
were
against
it,
but
the
board
each
time
voted
completely
in
favor
of
these
items.
L
So
again,
just
who
is
the
the
community
in
those
instances?
That's
speaking
up
against
these
items,
some
logistics
things.
I
would
point
out
that
I
saw
obviously
there's
been
so
much
work
done
in
this
area.
Construction-Wise
right
over
the
past
multiple
years,
roadway
improvements
and
doing
some
great
things
on
floor.
L
I
did
notice
that,
like
we
didn't,
require
a
traffic
study
to
be
done
for
this
item,
for
whatever
reason
it
didn't
meet
the
requirements
stated,
but
I
think,
as
several
community
members
brought
up,
it
would
be
really
really
important,
especially
as
you're
changing
the
visual
demographic
of
this
area
that
you're
actually
doing
the
due
diligence
to
make
sure
that
this
is
a
project
that
is
going
to
actually
still
be
safe
because
you
can
say
everything's
good.
But
if
you
didn't
check,
then
you're
just
saying
it.
L
So
I
I
would
encourage
you
to
not
move
forward
on
anything
until
you've
taken
those
items
into
consideration
and
the
snow
that
that
was
shaking
seeing
that
picture
of
being
stuck
in
there
and
we
don't
have
any
more
cars
that
you're
worried
about
moving
in
and
out
and
as
not
to
get
on
my
climate
change
pedestal.
But
these
types
of
things
are
going
to
continue
to
happen
in
our
city,
these
levels
of
snow
that
we're
needing
to
deal
with
and
myself
as
a
kerry
ave
resident.
L
I
usually
don't
get
my
street
plow
until
two
days
after
anyways
and
you
gotta
kind
of
make
do
what
does
that
look
like
when
now
you've
got
this
many
more
cars
coming
in
this
area
with
inclement
weather
events
happening,
so
I'd
really
like
to
just
follow
up
and
echo
all
the
words
that
were
set
here
by
the
community
members
and
make
sure
that
we
are
doing
things
that
are
in
the
best
interest
of
the
community
and
not
just
developers
that
are
suspending
and
making
millions
of
dollars
on
the
land.
Thank
you.
T
Thank
you.
First
of
all,
I
want
to
say
I
understand,
and
I
appreciate
and
sensitive
to
the
neighbors
concerns
and
I'm
here
to
continue
to
work
with
them
and
talk
to
them
about
their
concerns.
I
heard
a
few
things
that
I
want
to
clarify
that
this
project
is
not
a
multi-family
project.
Nx1
does
not
allow
multi-family.
T
This
is
a
medium
density,
single
family,
home,
single
family
town
home.
So
this
is
a
medium
density,
single
family
project.
This
is
not
a
high
rise.
The
work-
and
I
heard
the
the
word
eyesore
with
with
the
height
and
again
it's
just
really
difficult
for
me
to
to
hear
this.
When
I
have
a
high-rise,
condo,
caddy
corner,
I
mean
again,
it
was
built
in
the
60s.
T
I
understand,
but
we've
got,
you
know
the
density
across
the
street
is
that
would
be
called
a
high
density,
condo
and
I'm
sure
all
of
you
know
as
far
as
the
not
one
help
with
the
city,
and
it
only
benefits
the
developer.
The
the
benefit
to
me
is
the
the
benefit
to
the
city.
Far
outweighs
the
benefit
to
me.
This
is
more
residents
to
go,
have
a
drink
at
skips
and
support
their
business
support.
T
The
businesses
downtown
support,
stay
on
the
south
side
and
not
go
to
west
des
moines
pay
property
taxes
over
the
long
term
on
to
the
city
of
des
moines.
Right
now,
the
property
tax
on
this
site
is
bringing
probably
five
thousand
dollars
a
year
after
the
nine
year
tax
abatement,
this
would
probably
bring.
I
should
have
my
numbers
five
at
fourteen,
probably
over
100
100
000
or
150
000
a
year
in
taxes,
so
it
from
a
property
tax
standpoint
after
the
debate
runs
out.
T
T
The
question
the
the
issues
on
the
flooding
fleur,
the
fluoresce,
70
million
dollar
fluid
reconstruction
project
has
a
brand
new
storm.
Sewer
that's
been
installed,
we've
all
seen
it
be
constructed,
so
I
think
that's
going
to
mitigate
the
storm
issue,
the
flooding
issue
on
on
willomer,
and
we
will
be
tying
into
that
storm
sewer
as
part
of
this
project.
So
I
don't
anticipate
any
additional
storm
runoff
onto
willowmere
and
then
the
the
lot
there's
a
question
about
the
density
on
the
per
lot.
T
When
this
gets
plated,
it's
going
to
be
one
it's
going
to
be
turned
into
one
lot
and
it'll
be
under
an
acre
and
the
nx1,
as
I
said
previously
allows
17
units
per
acre
and
as
far
as
a
two
and
a
half
story,
I
will
be
asking
for
a
type
two
and
I'm
not
sure
if
it
is
a
type
two
or
not
the
height
requirement,
I
will
be
asking
for
for
relief
on
that
to
a
three-story
facing
facing
fluid.
So
that's
all
I
have
right
now
and
I'll
I'll.
I
I
O
I
E
Yeah,
there's
there's
a
few
references
about,
obviously
the
sidewalks.
It
sounds
like
if
there's
a
safety
issue
with
students
on
the
street
very
similar
to
windsor
heights,
it
seems
like
sidewalks
along
windsor
mirror
should
become
a
priority.
If
that
is
actual
issue,
next
question,
I
guess
is
there
is
discussion
with
respect
to
parking.
E
I
H
E
Then
the
only
one
there's
there's
only
really
two
lots
between
this
property
and
the
next
series
of
sort
of
high-density
high-density
buildings
right,
I
mean
so
this
isn't.
If
this
is
here,
this
isn't
an
island,
it's
more
of
a
location.
That's
about
to
connect
to
something
that's
already
coming
is
that.
I
S
O
O
Yeah,
that's
yeah.
Can
you
scroll
down
a
little
bit?
Yeah,
that's
good,
and
my
comment
stems
partly
from
many
of
the
comments
of
the
neighbors
I'm
talking
about
the
historic
mid-century,
modern
quality
of
the
of
the
neighborhood
and
and
the
passion,
quite
frankly,
that
I've
heard
from
people
in
terms
of
the
design
of
the
feeling
of
neighborhood
and
the
historic
character
of
the
neighborhood,
and
I
would
suggest
that
your
strong
neighborhood
association
consider
surveying
the
neighborhood
in
terms
of
its
potential
as
a
national
register
of
historic
district.
O
O
O
O
C
A
E
I
do
want
to
make
one
point
with
respect
to
the
the
climate
change
issue,
because,
obviously,
something
you
probably
hear
me
rattle
on
often
the
shared
walled
projects
of
higher
density,
especially
along
these
main
corridors.
If
I'm
understanding
our
plan
correctly,
will
help
us
drive
the
need
for
higher
density
for
more
public
transit,
which
will
reduce
the
need
for
single-occup
vehicles,
which
helps
us
learn
everything
from
greenhouse
reduction
to
shared
communal,
you
know
amenities
that
we
need
as
a
city.
So
I
guess
I
those
pieces.
E
S
AC
Just
a
quick
comment:
it's
interesting
that
I'm
sitting
between
will
and
chris,
because
I
sort
of
sit
between
them
in
my
views
as
well.
In
that
I
agree
with
the
medium
density
residential.
I
think
that
we
need
more
of
it
for
many
reasons,
and
I
think
that
along
floor
does
make
sense
to
me
as
the
city
sees.
But
what
I'm
frustrated
with
is.
AC
The
need
for
medium
residential
to
reach
a
certain
threshold
to
be
economically
viable.
That,
then
makes
it,
I
don't
know
less
appealing
to
the
neighbors
and
also
the
sort
of
the
immediate
jump
into
modern
architecture
in
a
neighborhood
that
has
an
already
established
style,
and
I
think
that
hurts
the
historic
integrity
of
the
neighborhood,
even
though
it
is
not
on
the
national
register
of
historic
places.
AC
P
Typically,
as
you
know,
I
support
most
residential
single-family,
preserving
neighborhoods
and
I
support
middle
need
for
middle
market,
but
I'm
going
to
support
the
neighbors
in
this
because
I
think
they
would
it
affect
the
general
overall
appearance
of
the
neighborhood
and
their
values.
So
I'm
going
to
vote.
No.
P
I
just
want
to
express
my
opinion.
There
is
a
need
for
density,
but
and
theoretically
we
should
need
that.
But
in
this
particular
instance
it's
why
we
hear
the
planning
and
zoning
to
make
a
decision
whether
an
exception
should
apply,
and
I
think
I'm
going
to
vote
no
and
support
the
neighbors
in
this
position.
F
H
Is
that
right
that
is
correct
and
before
we
get
into
that,
don't
worry,
we'll
get
the
lights
back
on
and
they're
on
a
timer
that
is
correct.
Whatever
we,
you
are
making
a
recommendation,
there's
already
a
super
majority
requirement
because
of
the
response
map.
You
know
the
responses,
so
that
won't
have
any
impact
housekeeping
item.
I
do
need
two
votes
because
really
part
a
of
the
of
the
lineup
is
a
little
bit
different.
H
If
that's
asking
you
does
the
proposal,
is
it
in
conformance
or
not
with
plan
dsm
as
it
stands,
the
future
land
use
map
as
staff,
we're
telling
you
it
doesn't
because
right
now
it's
showing
a
single
family.
So
francis,
I
think,
is
saying
yeah.
He
agrees
with
that,
but
on
part
b
and
c
he's
saying
no,
let's
not
change
it.
H
C
K
Yeah,
I
think
I
know
what
you're
getting
at
jan.
What
we
need
to
do
is
we
have
a
motion
on
the
floor.
You
need
to
vote
on
that
and
then,
if
that
motion,
which
would
be
to
deny
it
is,
is
supported,
then
what
we
would
need
to
do
is
have
an
affirmative
saying
in
the
what
what
you
want
to
have
happen
as
opposed
to
what
you
do
not
want
to
have
happen.
Trying
yeah
this
one,
I'm
trying
to
get
away.
K
A
A
A
H
H
That's
the
recommendation
that
will
move
on
to
the
city
council.
The
council
will
hold
their
own
public
hearings,
so
we
do
not
do
a
separate
notice
for
that.
You'll
need
to
track
that
on
the
city's
website,
you'll
be
put
up
on
the
council
agenda.
You
can
contact
staff.
If
you
have
questions,
we
were
happy
to
help.
You.
A
A
AD
Thank
you,
madam
chair,
and
members
of
the
commission's
ryoshi
chakraborty
with
the
city
planning
staff.
The
item
number
13
before
you
is
a
request
to
to
recommend
an
amendment
to
a
pud
and
the
the
amendment
request
is
specifically
to
allow
the
development
of
a
animal
clinic
within
the
the
pud
parcel.
AD
So
with
that,
I
will
give
a
overview
on
the
location
of
the
beauty,
so
the
the
area
is
located
on
douglas
avenue,
just
a
little
west
of
beaver
avenue
and
it
is
surrounded
by
a
mix
of
users.
Here
to
the
north.
You
can
see:
there's
residential
single
family
to
the
to
the
east.
There
is
a
bank
to
the
west
as
a
church.
Looking
south
there
is
again
a
mix
of
higher
density
as
well
as
lower
density,
housing.
AD
AD
This
is
looking
to
the
to
the
site
from
the
north
there's
an
existing
driveway
and
a
parking
lot
so
you're,
looking
south
here's
the
multifamily
unit
to
the
south
of
douglas
avenue
a
couple
more
pictures
here
again,
this
is
looking
looking
east
lots
of
snow.
All
the
pictures
so
just
gives
you
an
idea
about
the
layout
of
the
of
the
site.
AD
AD
Just
to
orient
you
here,
north
is
this
way.
So
if
you
can
follow
my
mouse,
this
is
douglas
avenue
right
here,
and
this
is
looking
north.
The
existing
chiropractors
building
is
is
right
here.
Kind
of
at
an
angle
is
the
existing
parking
and
the
new
animal
clinic
building
that's
proposed
is:
is
this
block
right
here?
AD
AD
AD
We
generally
are
supportive
of
this
amendment
request.
We
think
that
it
will
be.
The
use
will
be
complementary
to
the
mix
of
users
along
douglas
avenue,
corridor
and
generally
that
area.
There
are
a
couple
modifications
that
staff
has
proposed
in
addition
to
the
recommendation
of
approval
and
I'll
just
go
through
that
here,
scroll
down.
AD
AD
Some
of
the
items
of
discussion
included
access,
the
shared
access
between
the
church
and
the
the
clinic
and
the
the
access
easements
will
continue
on,
which
was
one
of
the
concerns
that
the
church
had.
In
addition,
there
was
a
lot
of
discussion
about
stormwater
runoff,
which
has
had
been
an
issue
in
the
in
the
past,
with
properties
to
the
north,
getting
affected
by
stormwater
runoff
from
from
the
pod
area,
so
the
applicant
and
as
as
you
may
have
seen
in
the
drawing
that
I
showed
you
earlier.
AD
They
have
proposed
on-site
detention
with
a
detention
pond
on
their
site
and
their
intention
is
to
detain
as
much
runoff
as
possible
to
eliminate
that
they.
They
also
made
a
few
modifications,
drainage
modifications
that
are
outlined
in
the
in
the
following
maps
that
I
can
show
you.
In
addition,
a
few
other
items
that
were
discussed
are
landscaping,
the
appearance
and
aesthetics
of
the
building,
and
so
on.
As
a
summary
from
the
public
meeting
and.
AD
One
of
the
staff
recommendations
that
I
wanted
to
point
out
was
to
to
move
the
to
move
the
building
closer
to
front
douglas
avenue.
As
you
can
see,
the
building
is
sitting
behind
the
detention
detention
basin.
So
if
the
building
is
to
be
moved
further
closer
to
douglas
the
detention,
the
location
of
the
detention
pond
needs
to
be
changed,
probably
behind
the
building
or
some
other
area.
AD
Now
we
understand
that
the
the
reason
the
detention
pond
is
there
is
is
to
address
some
of
the
drainage
issues
that
have
happened
in
the
past,
but
we
have
been
recommended
by
city
engineering
staff
that
the
the
moving
the
detention
basin
to
a
different
location
is
not
necessarily
going
to
cause
any
negative
impacts
to
drainage.
So
that
is
something
that
is
one
of
the
reasons
why
we
have
recommended
that
the
that
the
applicant
look
at
moving
the
location
of
the
detention
base
and
then
try
to
move
the
building
to
front
closer
to
douglas
avenue.
AD
B
AD
E
AD
Q
AD
H
I
am
right
in
the
middle
of
doing
a
gis
based
measurement,
so
if
you
just
give
me
a
second
I'll,
give
you
a
rough
estimate,
I
mean
this
is
often
aerial,
but
the
bank
building
wells
fargo,
which
is
on
the
right
side
there
to
the
east,
is
about
it's
about
50
feet
or
so
back
that
you
know,
there's
a
angle
so
we're
we're
not
necessarily
we're
not
talking
about
necessarily
putting
this
out
at
the
street.
You
know
within
15
feet
or
so.
They'd
still
have
some
setback.
H
H
But
you're
going
to
have
there'll
be
street
trees,
but
I
I
mean
we
we
require
trees
and
plantings
and
I
think
there's
yeah
I
mean
if
you
go
back
to
hit,
you
can
flip
to
his
the
the
sheet
from
the
applicant.
I
don't
know
what
page
it
is.
You
could
use
the
page
flip
number
thing
up
there
top
yep
there
you
go
there,
you
go
well.
Actually
this
is
perfect
because
you
can
see
the
other
buildings
go
back
to
that.
Please
there
you
go.
I
think
that
helps
answer
the
question.
AC
AE
AE
B
AE
AE
In
a
dashed
blue
line
around
where
the
building
currently
is
that
red
line
is
kind
of
in
line
with
wells
fargo
and
the
setback
which
city
is
looking
to
recommend,
so
we
initially
set
the
building
within
the
development
within
the
envelope
of
the
existing
pud,
and
I
wanted
to
connect
it
to
the
existing
parking
lot
in
the
north
side
with
the
chiropractic
office
as
it
was
always
intended,
because
the
building
was
smaller.
We
positioned
the
additional
parking
on
the
west
side
as
you'll
see.
AE
So
some
of
the
accommodations
we
did,
even
though
we
are
connecting
detention
and
routing
it
with
a
small
three
and
a
half
inch
orifice
at
a
half,
half
cfs
to
that
detention
area.
Putting
it
on
the
south
side
allows
us
to
provide
for
an
overflow
path
to
douglas,
to
ensure
that
if
that
clogs
are,
if
there's
an
overwhelming
storm
that
that
runoff
doesn't
continue
to
cause
issues
to
the
north.
AE
We
wanted
to
highlight
that
there's
also
a
primary
access
on
the
north
side
that
leads
out
to
beaver
avenue
and
we're
anticipating
just
as
much
traffic
coming
into
the
site
from
the
back
of
the
lot
as
from
douglas.
So
again,
we
agree
with
all
staff's
recommendations
except
we'd,
like
that
setback
requirement
to
meet
the
existing
pud
conditions,
as
opposed
to
moving
it,
an
additional
cl
additionally
closer
to
douglas
as
part
of
city's
recommendations.
AE
AE
E
AE
Right
now,
some
of
that
water
goes
to
the
north
and
goes
the
south
somewhere
already
goes
to
douglas
and
some
goes
towards
that
existing
detention
facility.
The
way
the
original
concept
was
designed
is
that
all
of
this
flow
would
go
down
to
that
north
detention
basin.
However,
with
the
lawsuit
that
happened,
they
made
some
modifications
to
that
area
and
there's
a
lot
of
concern
from
the
downstream
residential
area
that
developing
this
area
will
increase
the
runoff.
AE
AE
That's
pretty
correct,
there's
kind
of
a
high
point
in
the
middle
of
the
site.
So
if
you
build
something
there
with
the
topography,
it
is
now
half
of
it
would
drain
north
half
would
drain
south
so
putting
it
on.
The
south
allows
the
overfall
to
continue
to
go
south.
If
we
put
it
on
the
north,
the
overflow
would
probably
not
try
to
make
its
way
through
the
building
back
to
douglas.
It
would
go
north
towards
the
existing
detention
facility.
N
AE
I
mean
right
now
we
are
providing
an
above
ground
detention
facility,
no
matter
what,
if
you
provide
something
else,
it's
always
got
to
have
an
outlet
to
go
somewhere
right
now
we
are
sending
that
runoff
to
the
north,
so
we
are
actually
sending
the
runoff
from
our
basin
to
the
north
basin
at
a
really
reduced
rate.
But
if
something
does
plug
or
something
happens,
the
water's
got
to
go
somewhere.
AE
So
at
that
point
whatever
facility,
you
have
it's
going
to
start
to
bubble
up
above
the
ground
or
exceed
the
capacity
of
whatever
berm
or
facility
you
set
and
then
once
it
reaches
the
top
where
it
has
no
place
to
go.
It's
got
to
go
overland
somewhere.
So
if
it's
positioned
on
the
south
it'll
overland
south,
if
it's
positioned
on
the
north
it'll
overland,
north.
O
AE
B
O
H
Yeah
yeah
go
back
to
the
sheet.
You
were
just
on
yeah.
We
just
had
it
on
the
screen.
Okay,
no
one
more!
She
there
we
go
so
sherman
boulevard
is
right
along
there
and
the
church
has
a
very.
What
I
see
on
my
aerial
is
a
very
narrow
sliver
that
runs
back
to
sherman
and
somehow
there
must
have
been
because
this
pud
has
a
shared
drive.
I
think,
at
the
time
when
this
came
through
there
was
concerns
that
people
would
use
what's
a
church
driveway
to
sherman
boulevard
between
two
houses.
O
I
understand
that,
but
that's
the
reason
that
I'm
raising
the
question,
because
it's
included
in
the
application,
the
church
access
to
sherman
boulevard
to
be
chained
off
or
gated
during
non-church
events.
So
my
I
have
two
questions.
First
of
all,
is
there
a
chain
there
now
or
is
there
a
gate
there
now
and
then
the
other
question,
if
there's
not,
who
pays
for
something
that
does
the
church
have
to
pay
for
something
that
they
have
no
reason
to
do
other
than
we're
telling
them
they
have
to
do
it
for
some
other
reason,.
H
H
Well,
will
the
question
be
answered?
We
can
look
into
it
and
see
if
it's
actually
being
performed
and
that
sort
of
stuff,
but
that
was
a
that
was
a
zone.
You
know
that
was
a
condition
from
right,
but
I
don't
know
tonight.
I
can't
tell
you:
is
that
accurately
being
done
or
not,
we
can
look
into
it
check
with
our
zoning
enforcement
staff
to
see
if
we
have
record
of
it.
Thank.
Q
Yeah,
I
had
a
question,
I'm
not
an
engineer,
so
I
was
wondering
based
on
the
on
the
side
sketch
or
the
design.
It
looks
like
you
have
some
room
along
douglas
to
elongate
that
storm
water
basin
there
is
that
is
that
an
option
if
you
were
to
push
the
building
forward
to
the
street
yeah?
This
is
a
perfect
picture
right
here.
Q
AE
AE
I
know
moving
the
building
kind
of
cuts
to
green
space
and
puts
some
on
the
north,
some
on
the
south,
so
you're
kind
of
dividing
up
the
areas
and
now
you're
reducing
the
usable
green
space
in
one
location
to
try
to
make
that
work.
We
also
don't
like
to
we'd
like
to
keep
the
building
connected
to
the
existing
parking
lot,
as
the
intent
was
always
there
for
those
buildings
kind
of
facilitate
together
and,
like
I
said,
I
think,
we'll
get
some
access
off
the
back
from
beaver
avenue,
not
just
from
douglas
avenue.
AE
Q
AE
We
don't
have
plans
on
this
one
to
provide
some
type
of
a
screened
and
fenced
area
for
outdoor
playtime
or
whatnot.
They
they
will
be
if
they
have
dogs,
candled
or
or
dogs.
In
there
that
have
to
go
to
the
bathroom.
They
will
be
walking
them
out
to
to
go
back
to
the
body
in
the
in
the
green
space
areas
yeah
on
leash
and
on
on
hand
by
person.
A
AF
Yes,
short
and
sweet,
my
name
is:
dennis
reardon,
I'm
one
of
the
owners
of
the
current
veterinary
clinic
that
we're
trying
to
relocate
kind
of
kitty
corner
across
the
street.
So
building
our
original
building's
been
there
70
years.
We
also
have
a
clinic
in
ank
and
it
looks
pretty
similar
to
what
we're
trying
to
do
here,
and
so
I
think,
one
of
the
reasons
through
this
process
we
kind
of
realized
some
of
the
problems
with
the
stormwater
issues
with
the
owners.
AF
We
want
to
be
good
neighbors,
and
so
we
wanted
to
deal
with
that
issue.
It's
one
of
the
reasons
for
that
detention
area
right.
There
is
just
to
make
sure,
because
the
couple
neighbors
that
were
at
the
neighborhood
meeting
with
some
concerns
with
it,
I
think
we
sort
of
alleviated
some
of
their
concerns,
because
we
had
pretty
good
amount
of
green
space
and
I
don't
think
hopefully
the
science
sit
will
say
that
I
don't
think
we're
going
to
add
to
their
drainage
in
wet
backyards.
AF
So
hopefully,
that's
we
kind
of
favor
that
the
reason
the
building's
kind
of
set
back
is
kind
of
multiple.
Things,
though,
is
we
kind
of
have
that
green
space?
We
like
that.
I
like
it
anyway
myself,
because
it's
we're
already
trying
to
tie
into
an
existing
space
there
there's
a
chiropractor
half
the
building
and
a
approach
a
produce
broker
in
the
building
behind
there.
They
have
a
large
parking
lot.
AF
We
want
to
kind
of
tie
into
that,
so
we
don't
have
to
put
in
a
lot
of
extra
concrete,
which
is
you
know,
a
lot
of
less
roof
and
concrete
a
little
less
runoff
and
a
little
better
for
drainage.
So
it
ties
into
that.
We
can
actually
make
a
access
use
of
the
existing
those
spots
to
the
north
or
existing.
That's
existing
concrete
and
that's
a
place
where
our
employees
would
park
and
enter
the
building
from
the
side.
AF
So
it
kind
of
works
for
that
works
nicely
for
deliveries
of
dog
and
cat
food
and
oxygen,
and
things
like
that
that
they
access
the
side
of
the
building
that
way
as
well.
So
it
does
work
very
nicely
with
the
parking
our
clients
have
kind
of
would
have
nice
access
to
get
into
that
by
making
the
building
farther
to
the
south.
It's
just
hard
to
keep
that
parking
lot,
a
little
farther
distance
for
them
to
walk.
So
it's
convenient.
Certainly,
clients
get
out
of
their
car
and
walk
dogs
in
that
yard.
AF
Sort
of
same
thing
happens
at
our
ankeny
clinic
and
but
we
don't
have
plans
for
boarding
or
indoor
fence
yard.
Not
that
won't
be
a
part
of
this.
It's
a
daytime
clinic,
not
an
emergency
clinic
at
night
or
a
boarding
facility.
So
so
hopefully
we're
gonna
be
good,
neighbors
be,
and
but
I
think
the
setback
is
not
just
a
detention
pond
or
a
little
pit
there
planning
on.
Let
me
think
the
landscaping
should
look
very
nice.
It's
going
to
be
like
any
detention.
AF
I
think
it's
probably
you
know
grass-filled,
but
it's
just.
I
think
it's
going
to
be
a
nice
walk
area
and
I
think
to
be
a
nice
view
from
douglas
avenue,
as
it
is
so
so
I'm
hoping
that
we
can
kind
of
keep
it
within
not
moving
it
too
far
close
to
to
douglas
to
keep
some
of
that
drainage
and
the
look
I
like
to
look
at
that
too,
as
well.
AF
We
also
had
some
concern
that
we
thought
we
don't
want
to
be
too
close
to
the
busy
street
with
pets
people
getting
out
of
their
car
with
pets
and
potentially
dogs
getting
off
leash
or
a
little
puppy.
We
got
a
little
more
space
to
deal
with
with
that
green
space
without
having
a
dog
right
on
top
of
douglas.
That
gets
away.
So
that's
all
I
have
to
say
I
think,
if
anyone's
got
any
questions,
I'd
be
glad
to
address
those
or
or
other
people.
AC
H
H
The
like,
for
instance,
the
properties
to
the
to
the
east
are
zoned
mx1,
which
would
require
like
a
storefront
building
up
at
the
street
if
they're
being
redeveloped
with
a
door
that
faces
the
street
all
those
things.
So
that
was
on
our
mind
when
we
crafted
the
recommendation
but
kind
of
tried
to
find
a
middle
ground
because
of
the
pud,
but
also
you
know
the
other
buildings
there.
H
P
H
Okay
and
yeah
and
then
zoom
out,
so
we
can
see
the
whole
site
okay.
So
what
got
built
was
that
back
half
for
this
one
of
the
one-story
chiropractor,
but
was
what
was
approved
with
this
level
of
parking,
was
the
front
building
was
going
to
be
four
times
the
size
of
the
building
that
they're
proposing.
H
AC
AD
H
H
AD
H
H
So
from
our
perspective
I
mean-
and
if
you
go
back
to
the
sheet,
I'm
sure
they
have
at
least
that
in
that
parking
lot
right
by
the
building
and
then
you've
got
the
back
row
behind
the
building,
and
then
you
have
access
to
shared
parking
with
the
chiropractor.
That
probably
only
needs
that
you
know
10
spaces
too.
E
H
You
can
make
a
a
recommendation
of
the
council
that
they
have
less
parking.
I
mean
we.
We
can't
obviously
do
anything
to
what's
outside
of
the
amendment
area,
which
is
that
existing
site,
but
if
you
thought
that,
for
instance,
you
know
if
you
wanted
to
set
a
number,
I
don't
sort
of
counting
these
stalls.
I
don't
know
how
many
we
have
there,
but
you
know
you
could
say
the
you
know
the
number
should
be
reduced
to
x
or
or
that
the
stall
should
not
extend
past
the
front
wall.
AE
So
I
just
want
to
note
the
existing
parking
stalls
where
you
can
see
the
ada
ones,
there's
actually
existing
parking
stalls
there
today,
where
you
just
need
to
repave
them
so
that
they
meet
ada
requirements,
they're
quite
too
steep
for
us
to
utilize
the
existing
pavement,
as
is
so
those
are
existing
parking
stalls
there.
Now
the
ones
to
the
west
or
the
would
be
news
parking
stalls
and,
to
be
honest,
we
we
put
more
in
because
he
has
seen
usage
at
his
existing
facility.
H
We,
like
so
the
parking
lot
to
the
west
or
the
top
to
the
top
of
the
building.
How
you
want
to
say
it
on
the
image
there
that's
10
stalls
in
a
row.
We
would
typically
have
an
island
every
every
eight
or
but
with
their
only
being
10.
I
don't
know
that
staff
would
push
for
anything
more
than
what
you've
shown.
H
H
N
A
A
S
S
S
B
S
Would
be
oriented
towards
the
corner
of
hubble
and
east
douglas
and
the
the
building
would
be
towards
the
eastern
portion
of
the
site
and
the
site
has
a
unique
orientation
just
because
it
is
a
triangular
lot
with
multiple
street
frontages.
And
so
there
are
some
constraints
just
by
the
by
the
nature
of
the
lot.
S
S
Staff
is
supportive
of
the
the
first
four
design
alternatives
just
because
of
the
nature
of
of
how
the
the
lot
is
oriented
in
the
street
frontages
orienting
it
otherwise
would
either
put
the
back
of
the
building
towards
the
corner,
which
would
be
less
desirable,
so
keeping
the
building
where
it
is
right
now
kind
of
hides
the
back
of
the
building.
As
best
you
can.
S
And
and
also
maneuvering
on
site
would
be
become
more
difficult
if
you
would
try
to
to
flip
the
orientation.
So
staff
is
supportive
of
the
first
four
items
regarding
the
the
building
placement
and
and
frontages
the
second
or
the
last
item
is
regarding
the
utilities,
and
let
me
see
if
I
can
get
to
the.
S
So
here's
some
site
photos.
This
is
kind
of
showing
the
utilities
that
run
along
hull
avenue,
and
you
can
see
that
so
this
pole
is
kind
of
the
end
of
the
line.
The
lines
kind
of
string
here
up
here
along
hubble
avenue,
there's
a
pole
right
here
with
multiple
transformers
on
it
and
and
lines
coming
off
it
that
connect
to
the
opposite
side
of
the
street.
So
from
a
feasibility
standpoint,
it
would
be
impossible
to
underground
these
lines
without
coordination
or
impacting
the
neighbors
across
the
street.
S
S
S
We
are
recommending
approval
of
the
site
plan
and
the
requested
design
alternatives
with
additional
landscape
landscaping
on
that
northeast
corner
of
the
building
to
help
soften
and
screen
that
rear
facade.
And
we
are
also
recommending
that
either
the
canopy
and
or
the
building
be
moved
closer
to
hubble,
so
that
the
canopy
does
not
extend
closer
to
hubble
than
the
building.
B
E
I
think
I'm
the
only
one
that
caused
you
all
the
heartache
by
keeping
this
on.
So
I
want
to
make
sure
it's
clear
that
I
don't
have
an
opposition
this
plan,
I
like
the
design
of
it.
The
only
thing
I'm
curious
about
is
the
two
pieces
on
the
utility.
There
is
a
might
be
a
slight
typo,
but
it
says
that
a
negative
effect
on
the
service
of
neighboring
properties.
E
E
They've
been
changing
the
service
on
the
other
side,
so
they
would
have
to
be
underground,
so
we're
supplying
one
group
across
the
street,
which
is
the
negative
impact,
because
that
said,
yeah
negative
impact
on
neighboring,
so
just
neighboring
properties
just
like
that.
One
is
all
we're
talking
about.
H
H
E
H
But
a
lot
of
the
criteria
that
we're
using
as
basis
to
make
our
recommendation
will
be
the
criteria
that'll
be
the
basis
for
the
amendment
that
is
coming
so
the
ten
percent
budget
threshold,
the
impacts
that
other
neighbors
that
aren't
a
part
of
the
project,
there's
some
other
criteria
that
we're
looking
at.
We
don't
have
it
completely
ironed
out,
but
you'll
see
a
lot
of
the
same
criteria.
AG
Good
evening
dennis
flora,
flora
getting
those
stores,
2716
antonella
avenue
in
a
great
city
of
des
moines
I'll,
tell
you
what
I'm
not
opposed
to
the
changes
that
the
staff
wants
to
make.
I
have
no
problem
with
that
at
all.
You
know.
The
city
has
always
been
good
to
work
with,
but
just
a
fast
background.
AG
AG
AG
You
know
centurylink,
mediacom
and,
and
I
believe
they
had
it
all
worked
out:
they'd
removed
the
utilities
from
the
site
and
so
that
we
could
start
construction
and
we'll
just
have
to
get
cleared
what
they
want
to
do
as
far
as
the
power,
poles
and
stuff,
but
whatever
it
takes
we'll
do
it
wherever
they
want.
So
I
have
no
problem
with
that.
E
H
AG
H
AH
A
E
H
K
E
Also,
we're
saying
is
that
if,
if
we
were
to
put
something
on
this
say
that
if
these
lines
go
down,
they're
not
allowed
to
go
up
in
an
overhead
manner,
we're
identifying
if
we
say
that
is
that
we
would
be
preventing
access
to
utilities
to
this
site,
so
mid-america
wouldn't
be
able
to
provide
them,
but
also
this
tenant.
Wouldn't
how
does
that
impact?
Would
the
city
be
required
to
provide
electricity
to
a
site
like
this,
then
so,
let's
say
midam
says
you
know
what
we
don't
want
to
do.
H
I
mean
I,
I
think,
there's
a
lot
of
franchise
rights
that
would
be
impeded.
The
see
the-
and
this
is
probably
our
discussion,
part
of
the
discussion
we
might
have
when
we
bring
code
amendments
forward-
is
that
you
know
135,
and
it's
really
the
you
know
the
site
plans
and
we're
regulating
an
individual
that's
coming
through
through
development.
We're
not
it's
not
the
same,
as
you
know,
as
far
as
regulatory
wise,
the
only
there's
not
an
underground
district
here
that
would
mandate
it.
Midam
has
the
right
to
to
do
to
do
it
here.
So.
H
H
K
Right
and
to
that
I
might
add,
there
is
a
utility
regulatory
board-
that's
commissioned
through
the
state
that
looks
at
rates.
I
don't
know
how
much
they
impact
the
manner
in
which
transmission
takes
place,
but
I
would
strongly
suspect
that
they
have
regulations
about
the
requirements
that,
if
you
have
customers
out
there,
that
you
provide
to
them.
K
E
And
I
guess
hopefully
the
next
meme
will
be
able
to
go
over
that,
because
I
think
that
you
know
I
guess
I'm
not
sure.
I
understand
that
comment.
We
do
know
that
there
are
municipal
utilities.
We
do
know
that
conduits
are
owned
by
cities.
We
do
know
the
utility
conduits,
especially
to
start
looking
at
the
issues
that
are
coming
in
with
hike
with
broadband
and
all
those
other
access
pieces.
E
H
Those
types
of
issues
are
beyond
chapter
135
is
the
site
plan
ordinance,
it's
it's
to
regulate
private
development
and
it
does
impact
the
utility
in
a
sense
that
it
regulates
how
they
connect
to
it.
But
it's
not
it's
not
the
big
picture,
engrossing
vision.
You
know
that
I
think
you're
looking
for
you
know
what
I
mean
like
it's.