City of Des Moines, Iowa 2023 City Council, 30 Jan 2023

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From YouTube: 1-30-23 City Council Work Session

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Des Moines City Council work session on Monday, January 30, 2023.

View the agenda: https://DSM.city/CouncilMeetings

A

A

See if, if there's a hybrid opportunity, but the fact, the matter Still Remains, uh we need to take this uh program over, and so this is an opportunity for the city council to do things a little differently uh as you would want to design it. And so that's why we need this conversation with you to understand what those policy type discussions need to be in and where you would stand on on those. So so.

B

Were you thinking about all the ward council members that will have to get a molar yeah.

A

Something of that nature, something of that nature, so yeah, so uh Chris drew the Short Straw on who gets this new program and so I'm going to turn it over to Chris and we'll get going.

C

Okay, good morning, Chris Johansen Neighborhood Services, director um just kind of a recap: uh January 9th we did uh I'm bringing this before you um as Scott, alluded to the counties um no longer going to be doing this. For uh for the city of Des Moines. This is something the neighborhood services Department's going to be doing a couple things that we do need to clarify um before the spring season starts is obviously the city's policy Staffing, which lasts on January 9th.

C

We did discuss and we have started down that path already and uh the big one and really for the purpose today is we are going to have to put together a request for proposals for uh mowing contract, so there's some specific parts of the RFP that we do need to get um discussed and approved by Council before we can move forward with that.

C

Just a little bit of a recap from uh last meeting I know there were some some questions that Council asked and we were able to discuss these with the county and did do other research as well.

C

um The annual cost of the County's program they weren't able to give a an estimate for their cost, and one of the reasons is the the way they operate the program it is intermingled amongst our other operations. They use I, think it's their their public work staff to do the Mowing and they have existing staff that handles the complaints and the notices. So it wasn't an easy cost to give us um how many complaints did they receive and and how many were were repeat complaints.

C

So, since 2018 there was 8 800, um so basically over the the four years, I think you could average about 2200 uh a year. um One of the interesting parts of that out of the 8826, almost 2700 were uh the same property.

C

um So there are a lot of repeat offenders: um habitual violators that come across this program. How often will this type of inspection overlap with other type of inspections that we currently do? Yep.

D

On the 8800 yep does a validated case mean a case where, where they had to send a mower out or a validated case, is where an inspector went out and there was, it was confirmed that that there was a violation, but I mean do we have a sense of how many were actually remedied by the property owner versus violation.

E

Morning, Donald Jacobus, nid administrator, so the 8800 is the validated cases um and about twice that many were complaints that they got so just because it was complained doesn't mean it was actually in violation right. No.

D

That's not what I meant. So what I'm asking is how many of those 8 800, because I assume some people when they were in violation, they get a notice, they go out and mow their own law or they go out and mow their property whatever it may be. How many of those did they actually have to send a mo crew out for not sure if I can find out?

D

Okay seems like it important data point to understand too.

C

Okay, the next question was how often this type of inspection overlap with other type, and one thing to note: it is often we don't know the exact number, but we know just on our side. Usually if there was a junk and debris case, the county would communicate with us to make sure we had those items removed from the property before they were able to get in and mow. So that was that's something that we have observed on our side, that that did happen often uh overlap with vacant property registration. Will.

C

This include backyards and front yards I'm currently in the bigger property registration in our current code, we do already require contact information for the owner authorized management agent, so that does give us a contact and who to who to talk to, and it also does State the property shelving mode. Kepler of weeds, volunteer, trees and snow shall be cleared as required by the code with regards to the backyards and front yards, the uh the county, it did include backyards and theirs for us.

C

One thing we are looking at and working on with legal is more of a access into the backyards. That's an issue that we're going to have to work through and we'll get into that a little bit later in the presentation.

C

Remaining a couple of questions: uh currently the county currently mows city property along Four, Mile Creek. Will this continue? The response to that was yes? Will the county continue their mowing program for seniors? They'll, continue that as well and we can recoup costs. But what can we issue for penalties, specifically for repeat offenders? This is a policy decision. There were. We are going to touch on this today. This is going to need a direction from the Council on the county did not have any penalties on top of their actual mowing costs.

C

uh What will the city do about nomome? This is one that we're going to have to discuss that will we will discuss today. Currently, the county did not.

C

um They continued their inspections during the month of May last year, but if this is something that we would want, it'd be something we'd have to adopt into an ordinance, um but last year the county did cite violations for for Nomo May. One thing that was commented on it was pretty dry dry made last year, so we're not sure how many actual violations there would have been, but this is something we're going to need direction on as well any other questions about responses. We got back.

C

Again, just need need direction from Council to put together the program. Obviously the we're going to go over the process with noticing habitual violations expectations. What our level of service should be and specific to the policy, the height standards and Municipal Code update.

C

First, a little bit about process um and I know uh um through conversation Scott has had with the county. I know. This is something that we are working on with them.

C

Currently so I know some of this can change, but one of the things we did want to get in front of you is both what the current, what the counties process was and uh compare that to our normal public nuisance process that the city of Des Moines has first part um the the county didn't do what we call a locate to find all the owners uh interested Property Owners um to send the notices to they use the owner and mailing address. That's listed on the Assessor's website, our normal um locate processes.

C

We do do a little bit more thorough review and identify all owners and legally interested parties. A certified lender was sent to the owner, that's very similar to what we do.

C

Counties given seven days for compliance and their goal for abatement by the county is occur within 14 days of the complaint, where it differs a little bit on the city side is we have an appeal process? We did ask the county if they what they do with appeals. A lot of them were handled directly by the administrator. We have an administrative law judge process that we have used for ours in the past. That's usually the biggest time type constraint and getting into that process.

C

Invoice sent to the owner upon non-payment. Costs can be assessed when it gets to our time, for abatement is usually that 14 to 45 days, depending upon the appeal request.

C

One thing where we have been talking where I know Scott has been talking with the county is on the the notice process. If that's something that we can work with them on keeping that process with County, we do take the uh we do, the verification they administer kind of the the notice piece of it administer sending the notices and then, if they're, still in violation, that'd, be something that we'd work on. On our end with uh abating the nuisance with the mowing I.

A

Just wanted to add that it's very likely that whatever the county continues to do will just be for one year for calendar year 2023. They want to be completely out of it by 2024.

F

uh Chris yep two questions. So are these 10 calendar days or 10 business days, calendar ten calendar days now that that that might be helped to clarify yeah, um and so then, if they, uh if they appeal, see I'm just trying to like. If, if I had a neighbor that wasn't Mowing and someone appeals, then the the the time to abate the clock starts after the appeal is completed. Not after when it was first reported.

G

Yeah, what is the timeline from when you have an issue to the timeline that they would actually something be done if they've held, so how many days is that it Carl like because your yard, if it's 14 to 45 days, I, mean what is the timeline? Do we see normally.

C

In the appeal, the the clocks, you know the clock stands still at that point. Okay, you know you allow time for the appeal to happen. Then, after the peel after the decisions made, then you then you move forward with the enforcement and just.

F

I think we should be clear about that, because there's probably a neighbor who's going to say how long yeah do they get for this, so um I I know our our might.

C

Shore that up just a little bit yeah our current process with the administrative law judge just on regular, um junk and debris cases a lot of it's just scheduling. You know getting time in front of the the law, judge, um I'm sure, there's other ways that we could handle handle an appeal for these type plates, because I think the the types of issues you can Appeal on with with tall grass is is limited.

G

Well, I was just going to say that seems like a a step that I don't know why we would need or have administrative to do it because I don't think you can. If you have that many days, The Summer's, almost over yeah I mean it's quite honestly. It would be people that have called in I just think it seems like a very long period of time. You either have tall grass or you.

F

Don't well I mean yeah, it seems very generous uh and if, if the, if you go out with a yardstick and the the grass is tall like well, what's there to appeal, but so if they, if they have this um senior program, now that's a volunteer program right. Yes,.

F

H

Just want to know what there is to appeal is that it could be a pollinator Garden. It could be native grass there's a lot of stuff that you could appeal. So if you go out and mow somebody's yard and you did it wrong, like you've, ruined I, don't know how much work someone.

G

Has put into that I'm just saying I, don't know if you need to go through, I mean I, think administratively they could understand or somebody contact, and you know you can make that determination. I, don't think it needs to be this long or process with the administrative.

G

I mean the county: didn't do it so.

I

There have to be some administrative review right and that's what we do now and instead of having an in-house um administrative law judge, because we had a lot of trouble with that early on that's what we used to do with with somebody that we contracted with straight up.

I

We we go to the state now for the administrative law, judges and that's been very well received in the district court level, and we've got a Supreme Court case coming up, that's going to tell us whether or not that that works um for what we've been trying to do. But what what council needs to remember is enforcement takes place, violates a municipal ordinance by Municipal, infraction this one fractions go into court. That will take way longer. If we do that. So this already is an administrative process.

I

um I I, don't they're entitled to notice and an opportunity to be heard. um Could we do it with somebody in-house? Yes? Is that going to give us more trouble when we, when, if someone takes it up on appeal? Yes, it certainly will so so.

G

How did the county do it I guess I'm trying to determine what is? Why is ours different than what possibly they did.

C

The administrator yeah, their administrator handled the right their appeals, but.

I

We can do it in-house, but but we have have experience with that, not going well when somebody does want to challenge it. Okay, so.

D

If that doesn't go well, what what are the I mean- and this is this- is also maybe a lower level- a lower level issue right, I mean I I, don't know what what cases specifically you're you're referring to, but.

I

I, don't really want to get into all those in a public discipline.

G

I

Happy to visit with Council informally about some of those okay.

I

Just for starters, um if you look at the locate process, I mean that's a that's a great between the two. If, if you don't give notice to everybody, if you miss somebody, you don't have valid notice, so you're not going to be able number one, even if he can skate and not not have a problem with litigation for not providing people to process you're not going to be able to assess those costs.

I

So those costs won't be assessed against the property, because you didn't get valid notice, an opportunity to be heard so that that's just one area that I would have a concern with what the county did versus what what we would do.

F

Chris, just just one more question about the costs are: are these just the cost to mow, or is this the cost to administer and because there's.

C

I know for what we are, what we would be looking at is the cost obviously to mow, but also to administer the program. Oh okay, so.

F

That would be rolled into the cost, not not just the mowing part. Okay,.

C

It's a little bit just to talk about uh expectations, um current County standards. They have the the 12 inch height, so that's the limit. They they once the grass weeds get get that tall. That's what triggers the complaint and enforcement we are going to get into discussing the height of that just shortly. Here um they do allow two weeks to abatement, so that's kind of their their time frame they go with and they do include front front and back yards.

D

Properties differently than occupied.

A

I

Yeah, that's a good question, we'll be happy to look at that freedom differently. How.

D

uh Well, I mean it I mean. Could we have a different standard, for example,.

I

uh Like like a low like a lower level, weeds or something or.

D

Right I mean- and this goes to the point and I'm sure we'll explore this at some point, but it's the issues of nomome prairie. You know Prairie and pollinator habitat uh and sometimes, if Prairie habitat isn't kept up as well like you might have trouble distinguishing but I I'm willing to give a little more leeway and Grace to uh someone living in their home or someone renting a property. Then then, for example, a property that we know is vacant and it's just a question of: are they maintaining it?

D

It just seems like a different set of a slightly different set of issues that maybe maybe simplify some things. If our taking property registry is working like it should, and we have vacant properties identified, it seems a little easier to enforce, because there may be a it's a little more clear-cut. We have a look at that.

C

Okay policy discussion, uh currently no no provision city code allowing for tall grass weeds enforcement. This is something we're going to have to adopt um for us to enforce. This is where we need direction from Council, but before we get to allowable height the um no Nomo May um question for Council. What's what's council's thought on the the Nomo May and how enforcement should look with that.

B

You need a vote, it sounds like a lot of us are supportive of the Nomo may.

I

B

H

I mean I think that the idea behind number may, like, besides the pollinator habitat aspect of it, is that it's more environmentally friendly, not familiar a lot and so I. Don't know that specifying something specific to May is really the point.

H

The point is that ordinances like this are not super environmentally friendly yeah, and so that's, where, like the difference between vacant and occupied property, would come in um I think it'd be important for us to be able to distinguish between like non-native and Native grasses, which I don't know that we have the skill set to do that.

H

um So I mean like we can say, like we're, not going to enforce this in the month of May, but what about for the rest of the summer, if somebody was saying like I'm gonna extend this past May because I don't think it's environmentally friendly for me to mow my lawn and it's not affecting anybody like if it's causing problems, that's different, but if it's, if it's not like sight, lined if it's not, you know invasive species, you know, but do we have the this? Do we have the skills to distinguish between those.

G

I think it gets confusing. I mean it's no more may, but I appreciate I'd rather promote the pollinator Gardens and yards, and things like that and not worry about just worrying about one month. So it's consistency.

D

So I mean I, I'm, certainly supportive of incorporating nomomay part of the idea behind behind nomomay. It's not just a consistency thing.

D

It's the idea that uh some of the earliest pollinators are the you know some of the small flowers and things that pop up in yards, uh and so it's important to leave that habitat in that in that early time, before the the flowers and the other things Bloom over the course of the uh of the summer again, I think it'd be better to be able to distinguish because I mean I I would I would draw different lines for for homeowners and want to try and provide some flexibility for for some homeowners that that are doing different things with their yard, but I I think a consistent standard is I, I mean I, think we do need to have a standard and a consistent standard.

D

Whatever that ends up I.

G

Just don't know how, if you get 12 inches in May, that's what I'm just saying. So, if our height standard is 12 inches, so you so that kind of you know it's really where everything's just coming up now uh so I, don't know if it'd be that bigger problem other than it could be confusing.

G

So I would rather really promote that the good you know what you should do and if you don't want to mow, make sure you have the right kind of plannings and things like that that work, but if you're at 12, inches I'm, just saying I, think it's not it's nice to say, but I promote the whole thing in general for the whole year.

D

C

So I'm here General support it's something: we're going to have to look at how you could adopt if they have those principles of um pollinator Gardens, something to look at continuing throughout our.

A

Native grasses I want to make sure I'm clear, though that is there's an openness to allow a Nomo May, and so really this program wouldn't even start until June. Tomorrow, oh.

G

A

Doesn't matter because April is what may be the last week in April, you might in certain weather events have issues, but really we could say that the prod the program starts. Every June, 1st yeah.

G

That would take more.

A

If you're willing be cut and then you can promote the Nomo, you can promote the different grass. It's native grasses is they're. Gonna there's gonna be exceptions that.

H

We'll have to happen. Do we have the expertise to even distinguish between those exceptions, or are people just going to get this.

C

Is what we're gonna have to develop? We've never worked with this before so because.

H

I think setting the standard as like, assuming that everybody has a like solid grass lawn, we should like I want to be encouraging, obviously like native planting like Citywide, but if we're setting the standard and assuming then we're gonna run into problems when people have taller grasses because they have been progressed and things like that.

A

We're definitely gonna have to develop the expertise to handle the the taller grasses that are intentionally native and and uh have purpose.

C

Okay, uh next next item allowable height, um I'm, gonna, move forward to two slides and then come back to this one. Just to kind of give you a uh a view around the metro and also the Midwest of what other standards are that out. There I'll have Dalton come up and just kind of lead you through this. As I know, he did the research on these yeah and.

A

E

The same and you get all the labels on the bottom to fit, I had to make them kind of small and then cats, remember Mom, going back to your question earlier. I believe it was 900 a year on average that they mowed that they actually mowed, but I can confirm that so.

E

Of the yeah yeah, but I will verify that. So uh here are the the the y-axis on the left. There is the height in inches uh and they range anywhere from six inches up to 18 inches in the Des Moines area.

E

uh Kind of interesting is that some of them, or some of our our neighboring communities, have different standards for different zoning classifications or uses. So if it's a developed area or developed residential area, it has a shorter height allowance than would uh like an undeveloped, Forest, Reserve, commercial, industrial, agricultural, so um kind of sets different standards for what what residents would expect in their neighborhoods versus an industrial park, or something like that in this next slide.

E

I think I can't remember who it was, but somebody asked for comparables for other larger cities in the midwest, so I pulled a bunch of examples from larger cities in Iowa that aren't necessarily Central Iowa, as well as some of our bigger neighbors Kansas City, Omaha, um Chicago Minneapolis, so those those range and height from eight inches up to 24, inches and again Cedar Rapids has has standards were developed versus other than developed.

E

B

What's Dubuque.

E

um Dubuque I couldn't find a reference for them. I don't know if they don't enforce.

B

H

Oh, do we know what um roughly, what height graph starts to seat at I think that would set a decent standard.

H

E

You've got it's just a little background: I started in public service and like native areas, maintenance, so um pretty pretty closely acquainted to this subject depends on what grass you've got. So your your typical turf grass lawn is going to have anywhere from one to seven species of grass. So if it's like a Bermuda grass or uh Bluegrass or a Fescue, it just kind of depends I think anywhere from six to 12 inches I. Couldn't give you an exact, though sorry.

B

And how long does it? Because, usually it's what towards the end of the season that it actually dropped the seed it'll.

E

Drop seed as as it grows, I, don't know it's just at the end of the season, not like a fairy grass yeah or like a native grass, does all seed generally kind of through the season for like at the end of the season, but like a turf grass, it's not a native like a native thing, so I think it Rose hits its spot and then seeds out answer your question.

E

So those are our two slides for standards and comparables just to kind of frame. The question for uh for Chris here.

C

Which brings us back to the allowable height, the county. Had the 12 inches. Is there uh a desire to to change from that that standard foreign.

C

I think you could consider it that way. Are you asking if that's how the other cities compare right.

D

I'm trying to understand that you.

F

Know you don't think so: yeah yeah, okay, didn't.

I

I think Norwalk, it shows undeveloped planted areas, so I would assume that would probably be vacant lot, but.

H

If there's a house on it and it's vacant, then that wouldn't be the same thing.

I

It wouldn't be undeveloped, the property would be vacant, but that wouldn't be a vacant lot right, yeah, because you have a house there.

H

I mean I think my hesitation was coming from setting a standard, assuming that you would have turf grass, meaning that you would have to have an exception to have prayer grass. You have to register it in some way.

H

You'd have to like communicate that in some way and when we should be promoting native grasses as the default so I'm, like hesitant to say, like 12, inches or 15 inches or 10 inches, or anything like that, because I I'm, just like hesitant, because I can see this program going forward and that's just mowing down native wands and like requiring people to register requiring people to have a sign requiring people to do something or another. When that should be. Our default is native grasses, like absent, of something like state lines being an issue.

D

This program has been operating at 12, inches and I've, not gotten a lot of folks talk, I mean I, don't I, don't know that the way it's working now that it is impeding that I agree. We should be mindful of it, but I I think it's it's been more. The nuisance properties and people, just not maintaining their property and I I. Do think that that there is some value in continuing that piece, so I, I, guess I'm comfortable at the 12 inches and but I think we should.

D

We should be thinking about these other issues and how to facilitate, facilitate folks who want to want to do something else, proactive it it. That piece is a little harder because I think that's the pieces. It's new to all this I, don't think the county had considered that and I don't know what examples are out there of other communities that have effectively considered that I.

G

Would agree I think, especially going into this year, I mean I, I, think 12 inches is looking at these. Other cities is very pretty high and I think it really is addressing in most cases that any contact I've come in with is about people that are not in their house. It's empty houses and they're nobody's taken care of it.

G

It's not because they have a senior program that they'll continue doing that so I think it it's more that issue but I think as far as so you have a standard height, 12 inches is a good start just to keep it consistent, but I think to your point night. More work needs to be done on. How do you separate if people are really doing uh natural grasses in a way that you know? How do you differentiate, I? Think it's usually is pretty clearly differentiated because somebody's taking care of it still I.

H

Think it would be helpful because I agree that with the distinction between vacant properties and um occupied properties, that there should that, if we're able to make a distinction that we should um but I think it'd be helpful to look at what other cities are doing around our native plantings um and see. If we can also I mean I would like to see us promoting native plantings um in a more substantive way, and so, if there's anything, you can bring back about that. That would be helpful as well.

F

um Chris or Dalton um do you have a sense that how many with rental homes that the renter is responsible for.

H

F

uh So are we going to get into issues uh that they're uh rental agreement requires them to mow and they're not doing it? So then we're going to be assessing that property owner I? Guess that's between the property owner and the renter. If, if they're, if the renter is ringing up Bells uh bills, excuse me um or fines.

E

Yeah I mean that would be a civil issue, um so.

F

It I'll let them work it out between the the two parties: okay right.

E

Yeah so we're we deal with the owner of the property, the legally interested party, so the renter, whatever they have in their lease arrangement, with their owners between those two parties. So, okay, all right. Thank you, um Mr Schumacher, to answer your question about what other cities are doing uh in my research I found that a lot of towns provide like yard signs like a garage sale sign that people would put back on their yard. Something along the lines of this is a native prairie area or native habitat.

E

Please don't call us in we're trying to make pollinator habitat for something like that, so a little more proactive um and then your question about, like promoting native plants, I'm pretty sure that the city does have a stormwater program where they cost share native plants uh through the stormwater, Utility, Fund and Scott. You might be able to shed more light on that, but.

I

A

I'm wondering about the concept of something where the city could design. What that what that sign is so then it's somewhat certified if you've got that.

H

My concern is that we're asking people to say: please don't mow my lawn when what they're doing should be the default and if we can promote it in more ways like I. Don't think anyone's gonna agree with me saying this, but saying that uh Native lawn is the default and that everybody else would need a sign, because we don't want turf grass like I'm, saying that we shouldn't have people who are trying to maintain our lawn in a way.

H

That's restoring Prairie to its like natural habitat, saying please don't mow my lawn and having to put a sign up and if that gets blown away. If that gets missed or something like that, their lawn gets mowed down.

A

Yeah I, don't know what the numbers are, but I'm going to guess. It's a really low number.

H

Right but the number should be higher.

A

Right but you're asked yeah: okay.

G

That could be something we could do through our sustainability when we're talking about the gardens and things like that and I think there's been a lot of infrastructure talking about rain, Gardens and I've. Seen a lot of yards front yards, transform the rain Gardens for just for the water issues, so I think you can promote it, but I don't think it at this point. It's most people are have got their yards and they're mowing them or maintaining them in some way.

G

I think we can promote it, but I think for this purpose of what we're doing here we have to deal with. Who has what the majority of the people have now that doesn't mean it can't change eventually, but for what we're trying to take care of by June 1st I think we need to get something in place.

C

Okay, uh next next topic- uh repeat offender and I- think this is something we could look at with our vacant property registry. It's kind of kind of touching on that topic, as we've been talking today, if there's a a different way that we need to handle repeat offenders.

C

um Is that something you want us to look at as a part of this.

F

Isn't there something about uh repeat offenders on uh clearing sidewalks, the third, the trees ramp up? Didn't we just recently change that I don't know! uh Does that sound right, yeah yeah? So so the uh parallel that, um if the, if you continue yeah we're not the default uh mowing company, so um yeah I think they. We changed something last couple years uh so.

A

We're looking for an escalator, yeah.

G

C

We could we could look at that: okay change that was made that'd.

A

Be great thanks: Carl I I, don't know that I heard your thoughts on the height the 12 inch 12.

F

A

Anything there that.

F

A

Wanted to add okay.

C

And the last one I know we still have for discussion. This is um something we are currently reviewing with. Legal is how we handle backyards, the kind of more the secured areas you know uh fenced in backyard. You know how we will be able to handle that moving forward. That's something we are discussing really cool.

H

So I know um that we have or that the senior program is still going to be going on. Are we going to have anything in our appeal process for like extensions allowed, and things like that? If somebody like doesn't have access to a mower or if they have don't have like the ability to mow um and looking for other options.

C

I, don't believe there is anything with the way the current the county currently handles that I don't think there is okay.

H

Maybe we should look into that like if someone is filing an appeal after they got an A notice, and is there like some kind of determination that can be made saying like I'm? Not gonna, find you for this or something like that, because you don't have access to a more right now, but you're working on it or something like that.

A

That would be unusual, yeah, so I'm trying to think. If there's other examples where we would allow an infraction and an excuse of not able I'm.

B

Trying to think what else would pretty.

C

Much it do, we have any for snow removal. Do we do anything different with snow removal.

A

A

D

Asked the county to see about expanding the senior program to maybe also include a a income qualified portion of the program.

H

Or disability portray that.

D

Right, disability or income qualified I, don't know that that would be a huge number of these, but but maybe the county would be willing to think about something like that.

A

Yeah I think it's such a slippery slope that I think what what may work is an actual program where you sign up and you qualify.

A

If, if you, if we're um I mean that's where the administrators is where the appeals process gets sticky as well, because they would be hearing those Appeals and if it's a a one-time situation, they have to be careful because they have to be consistent.

A

C

I'm, just referring to our public housing program, yeah 34, scattered site, public housing. You know it's an even before then, when we've had much more, the residents were always required to mow um the only caveat had if they were elderly, elderly or disabled. The housing agency would mow on their behalf, but if they weren't they were expected to mow so they'd have they'd, have a lawnmower.

H

I guess sorry I'm, just thinking like temporary disability as well to be a factor.

A

Then they need to make arrangements, so am I asking or am I hearing you say to have programs that allow for Tech.

G

Research I, don't.

A

Think you allow someone to just keep the infraction going it you've got to find a solution to remove the infraction okay.

H

The the program could be a solution offered as well.

A

Yeah, so an expansion of what the county does.

H

But I mean at the time of appeal, if somebody doesn't know about the program, because they they have no reason to know about the.

A

Program then that's where your administrative ruling could be we'll give you an exception this one time and here's the program you need to sign up for I think that that can that could potentially work. Okay,.

C

This does bring us to the end today. um I think we we have enough I think for direction. To start with the request for proposals, the the height was the the key with that.

C

um This does give us something to start on working on uh uh policy for for Council, review um and I know, there is still ongoing discussions with the county on what any partnership looks like for this coming year, but um I know we'll be back in front of you at another time just to review the the draft policies, probably our next step. So.

F

Just quickly review, where we are for this calendar year, 2023. yep.

C

So, at the night on the ninth we did get approval to to, um we did discuss the Staffing, the additional Staffing that we are going to going to have in place for this. So those changes are are happening right now we are, we were able to hire um an additional supervisor, Jason Winters here, um just to view this, but he's uh our new neighbor inspection supervisor. We have two additional um inspectors that that recruitment is going to get started here shortly.

C

I believe, and we have an admin position- administrative position, that's going to be hired as well. The next step is putting together the request for proposals so to to put that together, the height requirement was one of the key pieces that we did did need to have for that. So this is going to help shape the request for proposals for the actual mowing. Sorry.

B

For the contract you're going to contract it out, you're not going to do it in-house you're not going to hire seasonal staff. To do this correct.

A

Right and my guess is we're going to have to have a backup plan. Public Works has been part of the discussion uh for When contractors. Don't live up to the standards of the contracts which I will fully expect. Do.

G

We feel that we probably have to have more than one contractor to cover this many.

A

And availability yeah.

G

Right, that's I'm, just questioning you know how many we're gonna. You know if this is gonna be difficult to find because I know that's why the county they had difficulty just getting the seasonal help, so yeah.

F

And Chris: do we have any idea like? Has there been any mapping of among the 8 000 plus uh just I mean this would be something that um for attending neighborhood meetings um would be, would be interesting information to have if, if that could be made available, yeah.

C

I know I, don't think we have done mapping yet on it, but I know we do have access to the to the addresses. So that's something we could look at doing.

F

I, don't yeah I'm, just trying to think uh well, I think it'd be interesting. Information for the council members yeah, certainly so yeah.

B

Came to see if Polk County has any historical records regarding that yep address, yeah yeah.

B

So they could do that.

F

And if we have addresses I mean there might be a reason just to to reach out to the property owners and say Hey, you know this is being transitioned and you know we know that we've, the wheat Commissioners, have have been at your property previously how's this year, going to look so.

A

Okay, this is helpful because we'll we'll design a program to start June 1st uh and develop these budgets one of the next big policy discussions will be the question about fines because we will come back with what we expect the total cost to be. But a lot of those costs we know are not going to be recoverable because it will be inspections that are done to after a complaint as well.

A

It's going to be complaint received, and so people manning the phones and emails about complaints uh than the actual inspections to verify, and then the notices and people may actually take care of it after they receive the notice for which then at that point we receive no revenue from that property owner and so there's going to be a lot of built-in costs.

A

That will not be recoverable, and so then there that question of a fine, in addition to the cost of mowing, maybe something you want to look at or the remember that anything- that's not picked up by this program ends up just being a taxpayer cost, and so as you're thinking through that we'll uh I want to keep that in mind. But.

D

I think some of this we already deal with today, right I mean we get. We get complaints that we then come into us that that we've passed on to the county I mean so some of some of that is is just built in.

A

And that's that's probably. The easiest part is the.

G

Inspect the inspections inspectors are driving through a neighborhood. They see it too, so it's not like it's uh and they probably turned it into Polk County. So right, yeah, so I think that that that's a minimal cost, yes Mowing and the notices and all of that's where it gets more expensive.

A

Okay, that gives us a good start. Thank you.

B

All right, thank you all for attending this morning. It looks like this meeting is adjourned.