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From YouTube: Economic Development Committee Meeting 9-28-2022
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A
A
B
Right
I'm
here,
councilmember.
A
A
Thank
you,
councilmember
Harris
president
Economic
Development,
Committee,
Member,
Lisa,
Deacon
Deacon,
here
here
great.
D
A
Have
a
quorum
presence,
so
we
want
to
prove
the
minutes,
but
we
aren't
taking
action
on
any
items
this
evening.
So
we'll
go
ahead
and
proceed.
A
A
So
that's
going
very
well
I'm
very
excited:
we've
nominated
30
pilot
participants,
30
Legacy
businesses
to
be
pilot
participants,
we're
hoping
that
many
of
these
small
businesses,
Legacy
businesses,
will
join
us
at
our
working
group
meeting.
We
have
one
meeting
tomorrow
and
every
other
Thursday
we
meet
so
to
help
inform
us
as
we
go
forward
and
decide
on
how
to
allocate
funds
and
how
much
to
allocate
and
and
what
would
be
most
helpful
to
these
businesses.
A
So
currently
we
have
an
RFP
out
we're
developing
a
logo
and
a
website
and
branding
for
the
for
our
Evanston
Legacy
program.
So
we're
very
excited
to
see
what
we
get
back
from
our
Evanston
artistic
Community.
We
hope
to
have
an
event,
looking
sharing
and
reviewing
and
voting
on
on
what
we
get
back
from
our
Evanston
Community
with
regard
to
logos
and
branding
so
very
excited
about
all
that
we
invite
anybody
to
come
and
visit
tomorrow.
A
A
Oh
I'm,
sorry,
yes,
go
ahead.
I
forgot
public
comment.
Do
we
have
anybody
for
public
comment?
Okay,
okay.
We
can
get
back
on
track.
E
Is
right,
I
would
also
like
to
make
sure
hey
Michael.
Could
you
say
something
into
the
microphone?
Let's
just
make
sure
this
is
working
one
more
time.
E
All
right
thanks
so
Michael
the
disembodied
voice
will
help
me
with
this
presentation
today,
thanks
so
much
for
having
us.
We
are
here
in
part
to
make
sure
that
we
all
have
a
shared
Collective
understanding
of
some
of
the
kind
of
fundamentals
of
evanston's
retail
ecosystem.
E
From
this
point
and
a
lot
of
the
behind
the
scenes-
stuff
that's
happening
right
now
is
ideation
on
a
lot
of
the
public
feedback
we've
received,
we've
had
wonderful
interactions
with
evanston's
business
community
and
so
the
next
time
we
have
a
touch
point
with
you
all
it'll
be
a
lot
more
exciting
kind
of
tangible
stuff,
but
we
thought
this
was
really
really
important,
because
making
sure
that
we
all
have
a
shared
Foundation
is
going
to
be
critical
to
keeping
the
recommendations
of
this
retail
action
plan
grounded
in
evanston's
reality.
E
So
that's
why
we're
here
today
so
I
am
Sarah.
Kellerman
I'm,
the
director
of
the
Chicago
Studio
of
interface,
Studio
I'm,
joined
on
the
call
with
Scott
page,
who
is
the
principal
and
founder
of
interface
Studio
based
out
of
Philly.
E
So
most
of
my
colleagues
are
in
Philly
but
I'm
local,
we're
planning
an
Urban,
Design,
firm
and
Lead
consultant
on
in
this
work
and
Michael
who's
on
the
call
is
with
MJB
Consulting
and
he
is
really
a
retail
expert
and
so
we're
going
to
go
through
a
handful
of
sites
today,
I
do
just
want
to
say
you
know
this
is
meant
to
be
a
conversation.
If
there's
any
questions
along
the
way,
please
just
let's
stop
and
talk
about
it.
I
think
understanding
is
really
the
goal,
so
we'll
go
at
whatever
Pace
makes
sense.
E
So
the
agenda
for
today
we're
going
to
go
through
retail
terminology,
talk
a
little
bit
about
retail
Cycles,
how
retail
is
cyclical,
what
drives
retail
locations?
What
can
the
city
control
and
what
can
we
influence
and
then
we'll
talk
about?
What's
next
up
in
the
project,
just
foundational
understanding
as
understanding
again,
this
is
sort
of
a
working
boundaries
of
the
eight
districts
we're
focused
on
at
the
top
here,
all
the
way
down
to
Howard
Street
Number
Eight.
E
We
are
acknowledging
that
the
southwest
corner,
where
a
lot
of
the
big
box
retail
is,
is
a
definitely
a
part
important
part
of
evanston's
retail
ecosystem.
But
we
aren't
looking
at
that
area
with
the
same
sort
of
in-depth
Urban
Design
opportunity
lens,
since
we
last
met
in
this
room
to
kind
of
kick
off
the
project,
we've
also
defined
some
project
goals
and
that's
what's
on
the
screen.
These
came
from
working
with
our
internal
committee.
E
That's
the
downtown
organizations
and
other
SSA
managers,
as
well
as
a
task
force
of
business
owners
and
other
stakeholders
who
are
are
helping
us
kind
of
Shepherd
ideas
through
this
project
But.
Ultimately,
we
wanted
to
make
sure
that
in
establishing
this
project,
we
wanted
to
make
sure
that
we
all
had
sort
of
the
shared
articulation
of
goals
in
mind
as
we
move
forward.
E
Today,
I'd
like
to
start
with
retail
terminology,
let's
start
with
the
basic
basic
Basics
retail
is
anything
that
is
open
to
walk-in
consumers,
and
so
that
includes
really
anything.
That's
coming
to
mind
right
now:
cafes,
restaurants,
some
personal
services,
entertainment
venues-
all
of
that
is
part
of
retail,
but
there
are
some
more
specific
definitions
that
can
be
valuable
to
the
discussion.
C
F
Yeah
I
mean
you
could
hear
me
right,
yes,
yeah
I
mean
you
know,
there's.
Obviously
a
lot
of
shading
to
this
I
tend
to
draw
the
line.
If
it's
a
doctor's
office,
that's
just
appointment,
based
versus,
say,
an
urgent
care
center,
which
welcomes
walking
customers.
F
A
lot
of
it,
of
course,
is
in
the
details,
the
design
of
the
doctor's
office,
for
instance,
if
it's
at
street
level,
so
obviously
there's
a
lot
of
nuance
to
this,
but
for
purposes
today.
Anything
that
you
can
imagine
accepting
well
walking
consumers
and
should
I
just
continue
on
with
this
slide
sure
yeah.
So
at
the
risk
of
getting
into
the
weeds.
You
know
the
first
distinction
I
want
to
draw,
and
it's
an
important
one
are
the
different
kinds
of
goods
and
services.
F
We
we
have
out
there,
because
the
kinds
of
goods
and
services
that
are
on
offer
in
a
given
business
district
often
play
a
large
role
in
how
from
how
far
that
District
can
draw
right.
F
Let
me
let
me
say
a
little
bit
more
about
that.
To
make
it
clearer,
one
type
of
of
goods
or
service
is
convenience,
goods
and
services,
and
the
whole
idea
with
convenience,
goods
and
services
is
that
they're
effectively
Commodities.
That
means
pretty
much
they're
the
same
in
price
in
style
and
quality.
Roughly
anywhere,
you
go
think
of
a
carton
of
orange
juice
right
now.
The
idea
is
because
they're
the
same
anywhere,
you
go
you're
just
going
to
go
to
the
store
that
offers
orange
juice.
F
That's
closest
and
most
convenient
to
you,
you're
not
going
to
go
across
town
to
a
grocery
store
when
you
can
just
get
orange
juice
at
the
grocery
store
around
the
corner.
Right
and
so.
For
this
reason,
districts
that
are
largely
about
conveniences
tend
to
draw
from
a
relatively
local
neighborhood
base
right.
F
They
don't
draw
from
very
far
afield,
and
you
know
your
typical
examples
of
convenience-
retailers,
a
Jewel,
Osco,
a
CVS
retailers
like
that
nourishing
Goods
is
different
right
comparison,
Goods
these
are
Goods
where
the
price,
the
style
and
or
the
quality,
they
will
vary
from
one
stored
in
the
next
think,
apparel
or
Footwear
or
jewelry
or
Furniture,
and
we,
as
consumers,
tend
to
gravitate
to
districts
where
there's
a
lot
of
selection
right
where
there's
many
different
stores,
selling
shoes,
many
different
stores,
selling
clothing.
F
Indeed,
we
will
drive
or
Transit
farther
for
a
district
that
has
a
larger
selection
of
those
sorts
of
stores.
Indeed,
that's
the
whole
idea
behind
the
regional
mall
right
that
we
will
drive
past
a
local
clothing
store
to
get
to
a
larger
District
or
Center,
where
there's
more
options,
because
we
want
to
be
able
to
compare
right
examples
in
Evanston,
you
know
Max
Bike,
Shop,
bookends
and
Beginnings,
Madison,
Grace,
all
comparison
goods
and
finally,
there's
a
third
category,
and
this
is
relatively
new.
F
It
used
to
be
convenience
versus
comparison,
but
what's
happened
over
the
last
20
years.
Is
that
conveniences,
certain
types
of
conveniences
at
least
have
differentiated
have
become
more
specialized,
such
that
you
will
drive
Crosstown
or
a
grocery
store
like
a
Trader
Joe's
Eva.
Even
if
there's
a
Jewel
Osco
closer
to
your
home
right,
you
will
drive
all
the
way
to
Skokie
for
each
March
right,
even
if
there's
a
more
Garden
variety
supermarket
around
the
corner
right.
F
F
No
I
mean
I
think
you
know
what
I
wanted
to
talk
about.
Briefly.
Is
the
elephant
in
the
room
right
e-commerce,
because
that
that's
you
scratch
the
surface
of
these
conversations,
that's
always
very
close
to
it
and
before
I
get
into
it.
You
know
one
interesting.
F
One
interesting
aspect
of
all
this
is
that
the
rise
of
the
e-commerce?
It's
not
all
that
new
right.
If
you
read
about
the
assumptions
consumers
could
shop
at
their
homes,
their
choices
will
be
right
at
their
doorstep
and
they'll
love
it
and
that's
what
Amazon
is
all
about
right
next
slide.
F
Well,
we
kind
of
had
the
same
thing
more
than
100
years
ago,
with
Sears
Roebuck
right,
serious
world
book
was
the
Amazon
of
its
day,
obviously
barely
still
with
us
at
this
point,
but
this
is
not
necessarily
new
next
slide
and
I.
Think
the
larger
point
that
I
want
to
make
here
is
that
you
will
routinely
hear
the
phrase
these
days,
The,
New,
Normal
right.
We
are
entering
this
new
normal
of
X
Y
and
Z
right
and
at
least
as
it
comes
as
it
relates
to
retail.
F
There
is
no
such
thing
as
a
new
normal
right
retail,
more
than
any
other
land
use.
Moves
in
very
unpredictable
ways
takes
very
windy
paths
to
destinations
that
no
one
could
have
predicted.
F
I'll
give
you
an
example:
let's
take
bookselling
right
for
those
of
you
in
the
audience
old
enough
to
remember
the
1990s
movie,
You've
Got
Mail,
and
that
was
Meg
Ryan
at
Peach
cuteness,
with
her
shop
around
the
corner,
nice
little
independent
book
shop
that
was
about
to
be
put
out
of
business
by
Tom,
Hanks,
fox
books,
right
box
books,
obviously
a
proxy
at
that
time
for
Barnes
Noble,
and
at
that
time
The
New
Normal
was
okay.
F
These
Superstores
they're
gonna
wipe
out
all
the
independent
booksellers
right,
and
indeed
they
wiped
out
quite
a
few
of
them.
Well
fast
forward
to
the
2000s.
We
have
the
rise
of
Amazon
and
Amazon,
basically
ate
the
lunch
of
Barnes
Noble
and
borders
such
that
borders
cease
to
exist.
Barnes
and
Noble
shrunk
in
in
this
in
the
size
of
its
of
its
Footprints,
closed
net
150
stores
right
and
at
that
point,
The
New
Normal
was
okay
Amazon's
taking
over
right.
F
F
Now,
if
we
had
gone
back
to
the
90s
or
the
2000s
and
said
that
was
how
this
was
all
going
to
play
out,
I,
don't
think
anyone
would
have
predicted
it
that
way
right,
but
now
we
are
in
kind
of
a
dawn
kind
of
a
period
where
there's
a
sort
of
Renaissance
of
independent
book
sellers
not
to
minimize
the
challenges
that
they
face,
but
there's
a
Renaissance
of
of
independent
sellers
that
no
new
normal
had
foreseen
and
I
use
that
as
an
example
right
to
to
to
say
that
we
shouldn't
be
so
fast
to
jump
on
what
we
think
we're
seeing.
F
F
So
if
we
zero
in
on
the
pandemic
and
e-commerce
right,
you
undoubtedly,
like
me,
heard
countless
times
in
the
early
months,
2020
that
we
were
going
to
see
10
years
of
e-commerce
growth
within
the
span
of
three
months
right
and
these
new
shopping
habits
were
going
to
be
ingrained
and
there
was
no
going
back
well
two
years
since
then.
What
is
fascinating
is
that
online's
market
share
has
grown
from
11.4
percent
of
total
retail
sales
back
in
the
first
quarter
of
2020.
F
to
12.9
in
the
first
quarter
of
2022,
in
other
words,
about
150
basis,
points
which
ain't
that
much.
In
fact,
it's
not
that
different
from
what
we
would
expect
it
anyway,
given
historical
growth
Trends
without
the
pandemic.
Right,
so
think
about
that
for
a
second.
If
ever
there
was
a
moment
when
brick
and
mortar
was
going
to
be
relegated
to
the
Dustbin
of
History,
it
was
when
we
were
cooped
up
in
our
houses
when
there
were
lockdowns
capacity
restrictions.
Public
health
concerns,
while
we
weren't
going
into
stores
and
two
years
later
it
just
didn't
happen.
F
It
didn't,
and
that
should
tell
us
something
right.
The
last
thing
I'll
say
about
this
because
I've
been
talking
for
a
while.
Is
that
it's
not
just
about
the
consumer?
You
can
hear
that
a
lot
today,
it's
not
just
about
what
we
the
consumer,
how
we
want
to
shop.
It's
also
about
whether
the
retailers
can
make
any
money
and
the
little
secret
about
e-commerce
is
that
retailers
still
haven't
figured
out
how
to
make
any
money
on
it.
F
Okay
and
there's
a
lot
of
reasons
for
that
most
notably
the
very
high
costs
associated
with
shipping,
customer
acquisition
and
returns
and
I
can
get
into
those
a
little
more
in
a
minute,
but
because
of
those
costs,
a
lot
of
the
so-called
digitally
native
retailers
have
started.
Opening
stores
right,
just
go
down
to
Armitage
and
Linkin
Park
you'll
see
a
whole
lot
of
them,
retailers
that
swore
they
would
never
open
physical
stores
that
have
since
started
to
do
so-
and
you
know
who's
also
in
that
group.
F
Amazon
right,
Amazon,
10
years
ago,
started
opening
different
sorts
of
stores
haven't
all
been
successful,
but
the
point
is
that
the
the
only
way
the
numbers
pencil
where
online
retailing
is,
if
those
retailers
also
have
a
strong
and
extensive
brick
and
mortar
Network,
that's
the
only
way
you
can
bring
those
costs
down.
Okay,.
E
E
There's
also
some
local
narratives
that
I
think
the
data
doesn't
necessarily
support,
there's
a
sense
that
there's
a
huge
amount
or
an
insurmountable
amount
of
vacancy,
and
particularly
in
downtown
Evanston.
Now
we're
not
standing
here
today
saying
that
there
isn't
vacancy
there
is,
but
putting
some
numbers
to
it.
You'll
see
here
based
on
co-star
data,
which
does
need
to
be
ground.
Truth.
There's
some
caveats
there
with
that
data
set,
but
Citywide
retail
properties,
vacancy
rate
is
somewhere
around
five
percent
and
downtown
retail
properties.
C
E
And
those
two
vacancy
rates-
the
five
percent
city-wide
and
the
maybe
10
to
12
percent
in
the
downtown
area-
is
not
out
of
step
with
what
a
lot
of
places
are
seeing
and
you
don't
want
the
vacancy
rate
to
be
much
below
five
or
four,
because
you
want
space
for
businesses
to
be
able
to
find
something.
New
move
up,
move
out
change
locations
as
necessary.
So
you
do
want
there
to
be
some
availability,
Michael.
G
G
Can
I
interject
with
the
question
here?
How
would
you
compare
those
vacancy
rates
downtown
to
other
Chicago
Suburban
locations
and
sub-markets
Naperville,
some
of
the
downtowns
on
on
the
North
Shore
like?
How
do
we
compare
to
other
markets
here
in
Chicago,
because
my
sense
is
walking
around
and
being
in
other
areas
that
we
are
at
a
higher
rate
and
so
I'm
curious
from
your
perspective?
If
you
know
how
that
compares
to
to
the
data.
F
Yeah
I
mean
I,
wish
I
didn't
have
those
numbers
I
mean
not
the
obvious
contrast,
and
it's
it's
it's
not
the
question
you
ask,
but
I'll
make
it
anyway.
You
know
magmile
the
loop,
obviously
in
Chicago
proper,
but
those
are
well
into
double
digits,
I
believe
Meg
miles
in
the
20s
and,
generally
speaking,
in
retail
and
again,
this
is
this
is
a
broad
brush.
F
A
healthy
retail.
The
threshold
for
a
healthy
retail
district
is
vacancy
of
10
or
less.
F
Ideally,
you
probably
want
more
something
like
five.
You
probably
don't
want
one
or
two
for
some
of
the
reason
Sarah
Sarah
mentioned
so
City
Wide,
we're
in
reasonably
good
shape.
Downtown
could
be
better
right,
but
certainly
not
apocalyptic.
F
You
know,
there's,
and
indeed
you
know.
Evanston
is
certainly
not
alone
in
in
in
in
this.
With
this
problem
of
of
downtown
retail
recovery
post
covet.
G
My
other
question
is
why
what
this
story
would
tell
if
you're
just
looking
at
ground
floor
retail
versus
second
floor
retail
locations,
because
if
you
have
vacant
ground
floor
spaces
that
certainly
feels
different
from
a
pedestrian
experience
than
if
you're,
including
in
those
numbers.
You
know
second
floor
retail,
which
feels
different
from
you
know
from
a.
E
E
E
So
the
graph
that
you
see
in
front
of
you
is
sales
tax
performance,
so
we've
indexed
to
100,
just
to
be
able
to
actually
compare
Evanston,
Skokie
and
Wilmette
in
aggregate
compared
together,
meaning
all
of
the
different
retail
categories
collapse
together.
Evanston
sales
tax
has
actually
performed
relatively
well
compared
to
Skokie
and
Wilmette.
For
instance,
in
recent
years
it's
felt
rough
on
retail
and
we
know
that.
But
there
is
some
positivity
here
and
we
want
to
share
that.
E
There
is
this
perception
we
know,
and
we've
heard
that
you
know.
Wilmette
is
on
this
meteoric
rise
and
they're,
literally
and
figuratively,
eating
evanston's
lunch
and
based
on
sales
tax
performance.
That
is
not
entirely
true.
F
Yeah
so
this
chart-
you
see
here,
you
know
it's:
it's
actually
indexed
to
100.
So
basically,
what's
the
first
year,
I
don't
see
the
whole
slide.
2011.
F
it
starts
in
2011
and
100,
for
each
of
these
districts
is
is,
is
what
they
were
generating
in
sales
tax
revenue
in
2011..
So
what
you
see
here
2021
is
what
they
are
generating:
sales
tax
revenue
indexed
to
that
2011
level.
F
If
that
makes
sense,
it
does.
Thank
you.
E
So
yeah.
F
F
Is
this
my
is
this
my
is
this:
is
this
my
site?
Okay,
yeah,
so
here's
some
more
shading
on
this
by
category
you
know
comparing
Evanston,
Skokie
and
Wilmette
I.
Think
if
there's
there's
a
few
points
worth
mentioning
here,
one
that
if
you
look
at
drinking
and
eating
places
again,
Evanston
still
well
exceeds
Wilmette.
Now,
of
course,
Evanston
is
a
larger
population
than
Wilmette.
F
F
Is
you
see
when
you
look
at
apparel,
for
instance,
how
much
more
Skokie
has,
and
yes,
that's,
probably
because
of
all
the
orchard,
but
it's
it's
actually
a
larger
concept
that
I'll
get
into
in
a
minute,
so
I
just
wanted
to
flag
that
for
when
I
go
back
to
it
in
a
little
bit
of
time,.
E
Yeah
I
mean
so
so
one
of
the
ways
that
we
use
this
data
I
think
the
point
that
I'd
like
to
make
the
one
of
the
ways
that
we
use
this
data.
Is
we
don't
think
that
growth
in
every
single
one
of
these
categories
is
really
what
we're
going
to
you
know
propose
here
for
Robinson.
We
want
to
be
a
little
bit
more
nuanced
about
it.
E
So
is
that
really
a
category
that
we
want
to
double
down
and
try
to
grow
known,
knowing
that
there's
so
much
competition
locally
and
knowing
that
there
are
some
real
drawbacks
to
that
particular
sector
in
the
industry?
So
just
for
example,
when
we
think
critically
about
this
data
in
a
when
we
think
critically
about
these
issues
in
a
data-driven
way.
We
can
also
make
decisions
that
align
with
our
core
values
as
a
community.
G
Even
just
the
total
number.
G
E
Yes,
I
don't
have
a
slide
on
that
prepared
today,
we're
just
still
digging
through
the
data,
but
yes,
we
have
a
data
set
that
represents
all
of
the
business
licenses
for
the
City
of
Evanston
and
restaurant
establishment
licenses
and
we'll
be
able
to
categorize
them
and
and
reflect
back
what
that
mix
is
for
Evanston.
Thank
you.
That's
awesome.
E
The
next
Point
here
is
that
this
is
the
monthly
sales
tax
revenue
over
time.
This
is
up
here
just
to
make
the
point
that
many
cities
with
large
universities
see
a
really
really
notable
dip
in
the
summer.
That's
because
the
students
leave
and
they
have
a
huge
economic
power
in
those
communities.
This
trend
is
true
for
Evanston,
but
it's
not
overwhelming.
There
are
some
communities
you
know
we're
discussing,
for
example,
earlier
Urbana-Champaign,
where
the
dip
in
the
summertime
Revenue
would
be
much
much
more
dramatic.
F
Yes,
and
so
so
this
is,
this
will
require
some
amount
of
a
mind
shift,
because
you
know
we're
used
to
thinking
of
these
things
in
terms
of
what
consumers
want
and
how
consumers
decide,
where
they're
going
to
spend
their
money,
but
there's
a
second
piece
of
that
which
gets
far
less
coverage.
But
it
is
equally
impactful
that
is
retailers
or
tenants
how
they
decide
where
they
are
going
to
open
and
while
the
while
the
factors
that
they
consider
are
certainly
related
to
that
first
component
of
what
consumers
want.
F
They're,
not
exactly
the
same
and
retailers
will
put
emphasis
on
other
variables
that
are
actually
kind
of
alien
to
the
consumer
and
I
want
to
get
into
some
of
those,
because
they
can
help
to
explain
why
retailers
land
where
they
do
and
and
why
they
don't
open
in
other
sorts
of
locations.
F
The
first
point
I
want
to
make
about
this,
though,
is
that
in
the
end,
whether
it's
a
small
business,
whether
it's
a
large
brand,
the
people
who
make
these
decisions
at
the
end
of
the
day,
they're
humans
and
while
as
I'll
get
into
chains,
might
make
more
more
use
of
of
hard
numbers
and
metrics
than
small
businesses,
ultimately
they're
humans,
too
right
and
what
I
the
reason
I
say
that
is,
they
are
just
as
susceptible
to
the
psychological
aspects
of
these
decisions
and
they
are
just
as
susceptible
to
prevailing
perceptions
and
that
will
also
go
into
their
decision
making
if
even
on
a
subconscious
level.
E
So
at
a
high
level
and
a
very
simplified
way
to
think
about
it
from
a
concept
of
business
plan,
there
are
kind
of
four
four
things
to
think
about
and
how
and
what
might
influence
the
location
or
viability
of
a
retail
business.
You've
got
customer
customer
profile,
so
the
socio-demographics
of
a
place.
How
much
that
place
is
going
to
change?
How
dramatically
that
place
is
likely
to
change
qualities
of
the
place,
accessibility,
foot,
traffic
kind
of
the
physical
aspects?
How
accessible
is
it
physical
space
availability?
Is
there
a
space?
E
E
I
want
to
talk
briefly
about
some
of
the
demographic
information,
because
I
think
it
can
be
helpful.
But
just
remember
this
is
one
of
many
many
layers
when
we
think
about.
Like
a
customer
customer
profile,
the
customer
profile
category,
the
things
a
retailer
might
consider
are:
do
the
people
in
a
place
fit
the
ideal
or
typical
customer
to
my
business.
So
looking
at
evanston's
population
broken
into
generational
cohort,
you
see
that
there
is.
E
There
is
a
large
cohort
of
baby
boomer
generation
and
gen
Z
generation,
so
gen
z,
what's
interesting
here,
is
that
both
of
these
can
sort
of
be
attributed
to
the
the
university.
So
obviously
gen
Z
is
a
lot
of
students.
So
that's
why
you
would
see
that
bump,
but
it's
actually
pretty
common
or
maybe
not
uncommon,
for
a
desirable
University
Town
to
have
a
large
cohort
of
Baby
Boomers
and
that's
things
like
cultural
offerings
that
are
available
in
those
places.
E
So
we
wanted
to
unfold
that
a
little
bit
further
looking
at
age
breakdown
by
cohort
over
time,
you
do
see
that
over
60
group
growing
from
2000
to
today
on
the
right
hand
side
of
the
the
left-hand
chart,
but
on
the
right
hand,
side.
We
also
see
a
trend
that
family
households
with
children
under
the
age
of
18
there
are
fewer.
E
C
E
So
again,
we're
not
talking
about
a
causal
relationship.
We're
really
just
talking
about
how
we
understand
trends
that
are
happening
and
what's
going
on
in
the
population,
and
so
one
of
the
things
that's
most
important
to
the
retail
District
action
plan
and
the
retail
analysis
is.
E
The
MSA
is
the
sorry
Chicago
Naperville
Elgin
MSA.
E
Metropolitan,
sorry,
it's
one
of
the
census
categories,
so
Metropolitan
statistical
area,
so
that's
yeah,
the
region,
the
region
so
bigger
than
the
county
and
more
urban
focused.
So
what
we?
What
we
care
about
is
looking
at
Trends
but
I
think
what
we
really
want
to
learn
more
about
and
what's
most
relevant
to,
the
retail
action
plan
is
How
likely
are
those
Trends
to
change
on
their
own
and
if
those
Trends
are
going
to
continue
How
likely.
Might
it
be
to
change
course
if
that
doesn't
represent
the
base?
E
That's
going
to
draw
the
type
of
retailers
that
we
want
in
Evanston
and
thinking
about
the
layering
of
information.
Things
like
the
fact
that
evanston's
household
income
is
tending
to
earnings
are
getting
higher,
so
the
higher
end
of
the
income
spectrum
is
growing,
most
evanston's
detached
home
sale
price
is
relatively
high
and
what
we
know
from
postal
code
data
change
of
address
is
that
there
is
some
churn,
but
not
a
huge
amount
of
turn,
nothing
terribly
notable,
so
people
are
moving
in
and
moving
out,
but
not
at
a
very
high
rate.
E
So
all
of
these
things
would
suggest
that
this
trend,
that
Evanston
is
losing
young
families
or
isn't
gaining
them
quickly
or
that
that
trend
is
going
to
continue
to
decline
unless
other
factors
change
is
going
to
be
influenced
by
some
of
these
other
things.
It's
going
to
make
it
more
difficult
to
move
the
needle.
F
Yes
and
before
I
get
into
that
I
did
do
a
little
bit
of
digging
while
Sarah
was
talking
and
found
that,
as
of
2022,
the
suburban
Chicago
retail
vacancy
rate
stands
at
10.6
percent.
That's
for
everything
in
the
suburbs,
so
that
also
includes
strip
centers,
for
instance,
I've.
Yet
to
uncover
a
number
for
downtowns,
or
you
know
in
particular,
I'll
keep
digging
for
that,
but
we'll
certainly
be
making
those
comparisons.
F
As
as
we
move
forward
so
10.6
versus
the
city-wide
level
of
about
five
percent
evanston's,
actually
not
doing
half
bad
compared
to
Suburban
Chicago
as
a
whole.
Yeah.
F
G
I
would
I
would
push
to
to
dig
a
Little
Deeper,
because
I
I'm
less
interested
in
how
we're
doing
it
compared
to
the
suburbs
as
a
whole
and
all
the
the
strip
centers
and
all
that
includes
and
compare
it
to
what
our
have
been.
You
know
successful
retail
sub-markets,
which
I
would
point
to
Naperville
as
an
example.
Yeah.
F
And
that's
that's:
what
I
was
looking
for.
I
was
looking
for
a
downtown
Naperville
retail
vacancy
rate.
In
those
two
minutes,
I
wasn't
able
to
find
one,
but
I
certainly
will
yeah.
G
I
think
that'll
be
interesting.
I
have
thought
in
the
past
when
I've
walked
through
there
I
thought
I'd
love
for
the
economic
development
committee
to
do
a
field
trip
and
go
walk
through
Naperville,
because
I
think
it
would
be
very
informative
to
consider
it
from
a
a
physical
planning
sense
of
place.
Types
of
retail
stores.
F
Yeah
now
definitely
definitely
a
comparable
that
will
be
we'll
be
looking
closely
at,
but
getting
back
to
to
the
flow.
What
we
were
saying
so
so,
yes
Sarah
gave
you
some
examples
of
how
retailers
what
they're,
looking
for
in
terms
of
the
customer
profile
when
they're
deciding
when
they're
designed
to
where
to
locate
this
next
concept,
is,
is
a
little
less
intuitive.
It's
it.
But
it
is.
It
is
critical
to
understand.
No
pun
intended
in
retail.
F
The
notion
of
critical
mass
and
retailers
and
Brokers
will
throw
this
this
term
around
a
lot,
and
sometimes,
if
you
push
them
for
a
definition,
they'll
say
well,
I
can't
really
Define
it,
but
I
certainly
know
when
I
see
it
right
and
it's
basically
the
point
at
which
You
Know,
A,
District
or
Center
gets
large
enough
right,
that
it
becomes
a
destination
and
draws
volumes
of
customers
in
an
exponentially
increasing
way
right
when
a
district
reaches
a
critical
mass
is
really
another
way
of
saying.
F
You
know:
there's
lots
of
stores
here
right,
and
so
people
are
coming
not
just
for
one
particular
store,
but
because
it's
the
place
to
go
to
shop
period
right
and
there's
a
number
of
reasons
why
retailers
gravitate
to
these
sorts
of
districts
and
centers
one
is
that
they
know
that
you,
the
consumer,
when
you're
looking
for
selection,
that's
where
you're
gonna
go
right,
but
it's
not
just
that.
F
It's
also
that
a
retailer-
and
this
is
putting
it-
putting
it
rather
simplistically,
but
a
retailer
figures
that
even
if
they
turn
out
not
to
be
very
good
at
generating
traffic
on
their
own,
they
can
at
least
rely
on
the
traffic
generated
by
their
neighbors
right
and
so
there's
a
certain
safety
in
numbers
mentality.
In
fact,
retail.
The
old
proverb
is
that
retailers
are
like
Lemmings.
F
They
will
follow
each
other
off
a
cliff
they're
pack,
animals
right,
and
so
they
are
drawn
to
these
to
these
districts
and
centers
that
have
what's
known
as
lots
of
co-tenancy
other
retailers
just
like
that,
and
these
are
the
districts
and
centers
that
have
this
wanted
critical
mass.
You
know
to
be
really
some
to
be
really
basic
about.
It.
I'm
often
asked
why
do
we
have
intersections
before
gas
stations
right
or
why
do
all
the
fast
food
restaurants
cluster
in
the
same
place
right
or
why
do
we
have?
F
Why
do
we
have
concentrations
of
bars
or
antique
roads
or
design
districts,
full
of
furniture
stores
or
malls
with
lots
of
apparel
retailers
right?
It's
for
this
reason
right.
It's
because
they're
all
gravitating
to
that
critical
mass,
where
there's
lots
of
co-tenancy
right
now,
the
most
important
cotenants
are
obviously
the
anchors.
F
These
are
the
large
stores
that
are
primarily
responsible
for
generating
foot
traffic
right
and
they're.
Often
what
other
retailers
look
to
when
deciding
whether
or
not
to
locate
in
a
certain
in
a
certain
District
or
Center,
and
historically,
we
were
able
to
rely
on
department
stores
for
this
purpose
right,
whether
it
was
downtown
districts
or
later
Regional
malls.
F
Obviously,
department
stores
aren't
what
they
once
were,
and
so
the
so
the
whole
concept
of
anchoring
has
kind
of
evolved
over
the
years.
In
the
last
two
decades.
Right
now,
you'll
see
grocery
stores,
especially
these
grocery
stores
that
have
a
specialty
position
like
Whole
Foods
able
to
serve
as
major
anchors
right
and
you're,
even
seeing
non-retail
uses
playing
this
role
of
anchors
Northwestern
is
a
perfect
example
of
this.
F
Northwestern
in
certain
ways,
is
the
ultimate
anchor
because,
as
a
retailer,
considering
whether
to
locate
Evanston,
they
know
in
Northwestern
ain't
going
anywhere
right,
they're
not
going
to
up
and
leave
like,
say,
a
major
employer,
a
major
private
employer
right.
F
They
are
here
for
the
duration
and
there's
a
lot
of
stability
in
that
right,
but
not
just
Northwest
and
public
spaces
can
also
serve
as
anchors
great
public
spaces,
for
instance
right.
The
the
real
Nuance
to
this,
though,
is
that
are
these
anchors
bringing
people
who
want
to
shop
right?
What
are
they
bringing
people
for?
F
If
you
think
of
a
movie
theater
snacker
when's,
the
last
time
you
shop
for
clothing
before
you
went
to
a
movie
not
often
so
yeah,
it
will
anchor
for
restaurants
and
bars,
maybe
not
so
much
for
shopping
public
space.
Well,
you
know
these
people
aren't
coming
with
the
notion
of
shopping
at
all.
Necessarily
that's
what
was
so
great
about
department
stores.
We
knew
why
they
were
coming
so
with
these
non-retail
anchors.
We
have
to
be.
E
So
one
of
the
next
steps
of
the
project
is
going
to
be
where
we're
looking
at
each
of
the
districts,
including
downtown
identifying.
What
are
the
anchors
either
there
today
or
things
that
are
in
the
planning
process
about
tenfold
about
to
unveil
and
think
about
what
is
the
real
value
of
that
as
an
anchor
as
a
draw
as
it
pertains
to
the
retail
environment?
E
E
A
E
Well,
I
think
some
of
these
anchors
really
tell
the
story
of
a
place.
Some
of
them
are
drivers
of
activity,
some
of
them
in
some
cases
like
in
the
case
of
downtown,
it's
going
to
be
a
real
uphill
battle
to
lift
every
block
of
downtown
at
the
same
time.
But
if
we
can
find
those
anchors,
if
we
can
find
the
the
cotenencies
the
things
that
would
re
lure
in
retailers
more
willingly
or
sooner,
you
can
start
to
make
those
changes
as
dominoes
falling
and
it'll
feel
like
the
momentum
that
downtown
needs.
A
E
Of
sure
it
goes
back
to
Michael's
point,
which
is
that
not
all
anchors
draw
in
the
same
way.
So
if
you
are
going
to,
let's
use
the
department
store
example,
if
you're
coming
to
a
large
department
store
anchor
you're
coming
as
a
shopper,
you're
readily
coming
with
your
wallet
out,
saying,
I'm,
probably
going
to
buy
something
today,
and
so
the
way
that
you
interact
with
your
environment.
The
reason
the
purpose
for
the
trip
is
different.
E
C
Wonder
could
I
offer,
as
as
an
example
for
discussion,
North,
light
theater
sure
it's
coming
back
in
a
few
years
would
be
a
great
anchor
for
that
portion
of
downtown,
but
in
contemplating
what
that
might
mean
for
retail
or
in
that
neighborhood
we're,
probably
not
looking
for
toy
stores,
you're,
probably
looking
at
bars
and
restaurants.
Is
that
the
kind
is
that
the
point
you're
driving
at
but.
G
Yeah
I
also
wonder
to
Alderman
Kelly's
point:
I
mean
when
you're
looking
at
anchors,
you're
looking
at
nodes
of
activity
right
and
so,
if
you're,
if
you're,
determining
where
you're
going
to
build
out
from
you're
going
to
build
out
from
where
the
natural
nodes
are
now.
So
you
wouldn't
start
where
there's
no
anchors,
there's
no
nodes
but
you're
going
to
build
a
strategy
around
those
nodes.
Does
that
make
sense?
Yep.
C
E
This
also
comes,
this
also
comes
around
again
when
we
start
thinking
about
place
of
branding
and
celebrating
identity
and
thinking
about
how
people
use
a
downtown
area.
Since
that's
what
we're
talking
about,
if
we're
thinking
about
the
communication
of
what's
available
to
you,
if
you're
making
the
trip
to
the
movie
theater
the
type
of
information
that
you
want
to
build
around
that
trip,
it's
a
date
night,
it's
a
you
know
whatever
it
may
be,
or
programming
associated
with
that
movie
theater,
a
particular
type
of
movie,
that's
being
shown
that's
tailored
to
kids.
C
E
F
B
Comment
if
I
could
be
recognized.
A
B
And
so-
and
you
may
have
gotten
into
this
already
so
so
excuse
me,
but
how
much
of
this
is
on
our
end
as
a
city
to
proactively
identify
businesses
that
that
that
we
want
to
introduce
to
these
different
areas
of
Evanston
and
I'll?
Leave
it
there.
E
B
And
and
I
guess
just
just
so
I
know
from
the
start,
but
but
you
see
value
in
a
city,
recruiting
businesses
and
and
not
simply
sitting
back
waiting.
You
know
creating
the
environment
and
then
waiting
for
people,
businesses
to
be
interested.
You
know
to
show
an
interest
but
to
be
actively
identifying
businesses
that
we
think
work
in
certain.
You
know
Pockets
retail
corridors
that
obviously.
E
I
think
that's
true,
I
think
that
what
we're
seeing
in
the
data
and
I
think
what
you're
feeling
in
downtown
is
that
there's
a
posture,
that's
changing
that
Evanston
was
once
had
a
real
momentum
and
and
feeling
of
growth,
and
so
the
city
as
a
partner
was
regulating,
was
stewarding,
making
sure
that
things
were
going
to.
You
know
to
a
common
goal
and
moving
along
appropriately
and
in
the
world
the
way
it
is
today
and
in
sort
of
a
recovery
posture.
E
E
F
Thing
I'll
add
to
that
Alderman
Burns,
you
know,
I
I
think
there
was
a
time
when
a
more
passive
kind
of
approach
would
have
would
have
been
sufficient,
but
I
think
you
know
in
this
day
and
age,
yeah
I'm,
relatively
bullish
on
brick
and
mortar
retail,
but
that's
not
to
deny
that
there's
a
smaller
pool
of
potential
tenants
than
there
once
was
right
and
in
order
to
be
the
communities
that
get
those
tenants
right,
You
have
to
be
more
proactive
than
in
the
past.
F
You
know,
and
that
can
involve
a
lot
of
different
programs
and
initiatives,
including
including
recruitment.
What
we
also
want
to
do
here
is
to
give
you
the
guidance
on
what
that
means
in
terms
of
the
kinds
of
retail
that
would
be
most
realistic
and
the
locations
where
they're
most
likely
to
be
successful,
and
so
that
that's
that's
part
of
what
we'll
be
getting
into
in
the
months
ahead.
B
And
hopefully,
there'll
be
recommendations
on
and-
and
you
know,
sometimes
this
means
additional
staff.
Sometimes
it
means
kind
of
reorganizing
things,
but
it
would
be
great
to
have
some
recommendations
of
how
we
can
better.
If
that
is
the
case,
how
we
can
better
support
and
equip
our
economic
development
team
to
make
that
shift
to
being.
You
know
more
a
recruitment
oriented
as
opposed
to
passive,
but
making
sure
they
have
the
tools
they
need
to
be
effective.
Absolutely.
F
So
should
I
take
it
from
here,
sir
yeah
go
ahead
yeah,
so
we
did
want
to
say
a
few
things
about
about
chains
versus
Independence.
I
know
that
is
a
an
important
value
in
in
Evanston
as
it
is
in
many
communities.
F
You
know,
I
I
think
that
we
want
to
provide
a
little
more
Nuance
to
that
as
well.
I've
never
believed
that
it's
a
binary
change
versus
Mom
and
Pops,
but
more
along
the
lines
of
a
Continuum,
large
National
brands
on
one
end
and
unique
local
Independence
on
the
other
and
there's
a
lot
in
between
there.
F
For
one
thing:
franchises
are
not
the
same
as
chains
franchises
pay
to
use
a
proven
operating
model,
but
they
are
almost
always
smaller,
independent
entrepreneurs
who
are
putting
their
capital
on
the
line.
So
there's
a
little
bit
of
a
difference.
There
there's
also
a
lot
of
what
I
call
chainlets,
whether
on
a
local,
Regional
or
even
National
basis.
Maybe
they
have
two
to
nine
locations
and
then
there's
in
the
Mom
and
Pops
who
don't
exactly
they're,
not
exactly
your
grandmother's,
mom
and
pop.
F
F
And
and
obviously-
and
you
know
one
point
I
want
to
also
make
about
it-
is
that
along
this
Continuum,
all
these
different
sorts
of
retailers
make
decisions
a
little
bit
differently
right,
as
I
said
earlier,
your
largest
national
Brands
will
rely
a
little
more
on
hard
numbers
on
metrics
and
thresholds
that
you
must
meet,
or
else
they're
just
not
going
to
even
consider
the
possibility
they're
going
to
probably
prioritize
cotenancy
more,
whereas
your
small
business
might
be
willing
to
take
more
chances
based
on
local
knowledge,
perhaps
even
sentiment,
and
so
you
know
there
will
be
different
ways
in
which
these
retailers
make
decisions
and
dip
in
appeals
we'd
need
to
make
if
we
want
to
attract
them.
F
The
final
point
I
want
to
make
about
this
is
that
the
kinds
of
retailers
that
we
can
get
in
one
District
or
another
might
might
vary
quite
a
bit.
You
know
if
next
slide,
if
you
look,
for
instance,
in
downtown,
there
are
some
space
and
and
financial
realities
that
do
constrain.
What
kinds
of
businesses
would
be
possible
there.
F
This
is
it's
an
early
20th
century
downtown
with
oftentimes
larger,
deeper
storefronts
than
many
small
businesses
need
or
can
afford,
and
also
there's
the
question
of
of
rents,
and
we
we
got
into
this
a
little
bit
before,
but
I
want
to
get
into
a
little
more
detail
into
it
now,
because
there
is
kind
of
a
notion
that
somehow
landlords
just
pick
rents
out
of
thin
air
and
any
landlords.
That's
actually
has
some
Savvy
and
understanding
knows
they
can't
just
do
that.
F
Rents
have
to
have
a
relationship
have
to
maintain
a
relationship
to
the
projected
gross
sales
of
the
retailers
they're
trying
to
attract,
because
in
retail,
there's
a
general
rule
and
thumb
that
you're
generally
not
supposed
to
spend
more
than
10
of
your
projected
gross
sales
on
on
rent
and
if
you
do
then
you're
not
so
likely
to
survive.
So
if
a
landlord
decides
to
charge
rents
which
will
require
retailers
to
spend
20
percent
of
their
gross
sales
on
rent,
that
retailer
will
probably
not
survive,
that
space
will
go
vacant.
F
Maybe
you'll
get
another
tenant
stupid
enough
to
take
that
deal,
but
the
space
will
go
vacant
again.
There'll
be
constant
turnover,
so
landlord
can't
just
call
all
the
shots
here.
They
have
to
price
their
space
according
to
what
retailers
are
capable
of
grossing
in
in
a
given
District.
So
just
to
give
you
some
numbers
as
an
example
of
this
right.
F
If
you
know
if,
if
a
retailer
is
going
to
be
paying
26
dollars,
what
so
we
did,
we
ran
some
numbers
and
to
right
now
the
average
the
median
retail
rent
in
downtown
is
26.40
per
square
foot
per
year.
When
you
add
in
the
various
expenses
that
are
passed
through
to
the
tenant
right,
it
goes
up
to
about
38
dollars
per
square
foot.
F
So
for
a
2,
000
square
foot
space,
that's
77,
000
a
year
that
the
tenant
has
to
pay.
If
it's
going
to
keep
to
that
10
rule,
then
a
shop
would
need
to
gross
about
770
000
a
year
right,
restaurants,
it's
it's
less
than
ten
percent.
It's
usually
five
to
seven
percent.
A
restaurant
would
have
to
do
about
1.54
million
a
year
okay.
So
all
of
this
is
a
way
of
saying
there
are
relationships
here
that
dictate
what
prevailing
rents
can
be
and
landlords
can't.
F
Just
you
know,
on
a
whim,
decide
what
what
they
are
they
can,
but
they
won't.
They
probably
won't
be
able
to
maintain
the
space
as
unoccupied
for
all
that
long
right.
E
So
bringing
it
home
I
think
all
of
this
all
of
these
ideas
understanding
the
market,
how
the
retailers
would
look
at
it.
Some
of
the
constraints
that
might
be
put
on
building
owners
or
managers
when
they
set
leasing
rates
comes
back
to
here.
Why
we're
in
the
room
today,
which
is
we're
putting
together
a
retail
action
plan,
that's
organized
by
the
city
and
and
partners?
E
E
The
city
has
influence
over
visibility
and
marketing,
but
when
it
comes
to
Once,
you
walk
through
the
door.
The
city
has
no
control
over
what
merchandise
is
actually
on
the
shelves
or
power
over
how
turning
actually
turning
a
customer
into
a
buyer,
actually
turning
an
individual
who's,
visiting
a
store
into
someone
who's
going
to
the
register
and
paying
for
something.
E
So
when
we
think
about
the
things
that
the
city
can
control
a
lot
of,
it
falls
in
the
category
of
rules
and
regulations
and
then
also
the
quality
of
space
that
can
be
created
between
the
buildings
between
the
merchants
and
the
feel.
So
what
we
really
want
to
focus
on
in
this
plan
is
how
a
space
is
designed
to
draw
people
to
make
a
nice
place
to
inhabit,
to
go
as
a
destination
looking
at
things
like
protocols,
rules
and
regulations
around
parking
and
incentives
that
might
be
possible.
E
In
particular,
we've
heard
a
lot
of
demand
for
events
and
programming,
a
call
for
Evanston
to
be
more
experimental
and
have
more
fun.
You
know
we
need
to
take
a
good
hard
look
at
the
way
that
City
can
be
a
partner
and
can
facilitate
the
types
of
things
that
people
want
to
do
outside
of
the
stores
that
are
also
a
reason
to
come
out
in
the
first
place.
G
You
know
other
municipalities
don't
treat
their
outdoor
dining
experience
that
way,
and
so
I
love
your
Viewpoint
when
you
guys
are
looking
at
this
as
to
how
the
city
from
this
public
realm
policy
and
regulations
can
positively
impact.
You
know
sort
of
the
types
of
outdoor
dining
experiences
that
we're
able
to
see
I.
E
Think
you're,
absolutely
right
and
just
from
our
business
owner
task
force,
we've
heard
this
we've
heard
you
take
a
look,
see
how
Evanston
Stacks
up
in
terms
of
protocols,
for
you
know,
noise,
noise,
nuisance
or
how
late
bars
or
restaurants
could
play
music
out
loud.
That's
something
that
there's
a
real
interesting
comparison,
comparing
how
Evanston
controls
and
limits
versus
somewhere
else.
E
Similarly,
with
large
events,
the
process
to
realize
a
large
event
or
something
that
shuts
down
a
street,
it
might
feel
like
it's
it's
an
arduous
process
in
Evanston,
whereas
some
near
communities-
and
this
is
I'm-
sharing
this
as
ideas
that
have
been
brought
up
in
in
these
conversations,
but
that
it
feels
different
than
some
of
the
surrounding
areas.
They
might
feel
a
little
more
welcome
to
something
different.
C
E
And
I
can
say:
we've
we've
looked
at
food
trucks
in
the
same
way
and
we're
in
the
process
of
kind
of
packaging
all
of
those
ideas
but
permit
dollar
for
dollar,
not
wildly
out
of
whack.
It's
really
navigating
maybe
process
and
procedure,
and
then
what
you
can
do
once
you
get
it,
how
is
it
flexible?
How?
What
is
the
the
term
that
you're
allowed
to
exercise
this
thing
that
you
just
worked
to
to
get
access
to
right.
C
C
It
is
there,
so
you
want
to
make
sure
you're
aware
that
we
just
completed
a
parking
study
and
to
the
extent
that
that
information
can
feed
into
your
process.
You
know
you
want
to
make
sure
you're
aware
of
that
and
can
absolutely.
E
Take
that
into
account
yes,
I
mean
all
of
the
plans
are
being
taken
to
account
the
past
downtown
plan
climate
action.
All
of
these,
it's
a
it's
a
lot
to
read,
but
we're
up
for.
C
E
A
You
know
you
talked
a
little
bit
about
the
kind
of
retail
that
we
can
get
versus.
Well,
you
didn't
talk
about
the
kind
we
want
and
you
know
that's
what
I
want
to
hear
more
about
and
I
think
a
lot
of
us
have
ideas
and
we've
seen
how
certain
blocks
of
sort
of
human
scaled
buildings
like
Central,
Street
and
Dempster
or
Maine.
A
You
know,
a
city
that
values
culture
and
with
the
university
I
think
there
are
some
desires
for
a
type
of
retail
that
we
want
and
and
I
think
we
should
also
I
think
what
we'd
like
from
you
is
some
explicit
not
just
like
what
we
can
get,
because
we
could.
We
could
turn
the
whole
town
into
like
formula
stores.
These
I
mean
if
we
wanted
to
right,
because
if
we
just
did
that,
if
we
just,
we
took
what
we
can
get
because,
okay,
we
have
this-
you
know
node
this
anchor
store
here.
A
So
therefore
we
have
to
get
this
I
think
we
have
to
be
careful
to
really
examine
what
we
want
as
a
city
to
really
make
this
place.
The
quality
of
living
I
want
to
hear
more
about
quality
of
living
and
I've.
Seen
many
cities
Across
the
Nation.
Take
measures,
for
example,
to
draw
in
retail.
You
know
some
sometimes
they're
punitive,
where
they
have
fines
for
leaving
store
spaces
empty,
because
there
is
a
trend
Nationwide
to
jack
up
rents.
A
Right
now,
I
mean
this
is
a
thing
that
in
getting
tax
breaks,
if
you're
for
vacancy,
so
I
think
I'd
like
to
hear
measures
that
cities
are
taking
to
really
bring
in
more
local
businesses
and
help
the
identity
and
the
quality
of
living,
actual
measures
and
and
go
and
and
do
tell
us
like
I,
think
your
point
is
well
taken.
I
mean
about
our
outdoor
dining
I
think
we
can
do
better.
I
know
we
work
very
hard,
like
with
Farmhouse
to
create
more
of
a
European
sort
of
setting
and
Arrangement
and
I.
E
I
think
that
well
put
and
the
way
that
we
I
don't
have
you
know
we
don't
have
recommendations
ready
yet,
but
I
know
that
we
see
a
real
latent
potential
in
Evanston,
not
just
the
university,
not
just
the
fact
that
you
have
an
urban
fabric,
not
just
the
fact
that
you've
got
a
larger
population
than
the
near
area.
E
It's
not
just
the
fact
that
you
do
have
some
strong
anchors
in
downtown
like
the
Whole
Foods
and
some
coming
like
North
light,
but
Evanston
really
should
Stand
Out
Among
the
communities
of
the
North
Shore,
and
so
we
really
needed
to
start
this
question
or
we
needed
to
start
this
effort
by
asking.
Why
why?
Why
isn't
ovens
and
standing
out?
What
are
the
things
that
really
need
to
change?
E
What
are
the
ways
that
we
could
change
those
things
and
change
the
trajectory,
but
celebrating
the
things
that
are
already
here
that
do
set
Evanston
apart
and
telling
that
story
more
loudly
and
celebrating
Evanston?
What
makes
Evanston
unique
on
the
North
Shore,
not
just
size,
but
all
of
these
other
factors
is
is
where
we're
going.
F
And
so,
if
I
could
add
just
a
couple
of
things
from
the
disembodied
voice,
this
is
Mike.
Sorry
for
how
creepy
this
is
I'm,
really
not
that
creepy
in
real
life.
Yeah
I
think
this
starts
certainly
from
from
what
people
want
and
what
they
value.
I
think
what
will
be
our
jobs
and
what
will
you
know
is,
and
what
will
be
not
always
easy
to
untangle.
F
Is
that-
and
this
is
this-
we
see
repeatedly
what
people
say
they
want
and
what
they
are
willing
to
support
aren't
always
the
same
thing
I
mean
so
we
have
to
kind
of
tease
it
out.
You
know
that
you
saw
that
New
Yorker
a
cartoon
on
one
of
the
slides,
the
the
person
who
lives
above
the
independent
book
shop
and
waves,
the
loads
to
the
Proprietor
in
the
morning,
all
while
accepting
her
Amazon
delivery.
F
That
is
a
real
thing,
so
I
think
that's
something
that
will
always
try
to
be
attentive
to,
and
the
other
part
is,
is
that,
yes,
there
are
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
proactive
steps
that
communities
are
trying
to
take,
whether
it's
Legacy
business,
ordinances,
I,
I
and
obviously,
ever
since
now,
one
of
them,
you
know
and
Commercial
vacancy
taxes
and
and
a
lot
of
these
are
intriguing
I-
think
what
our
job
will
also
be
is
how
to
tease
out
what
could
be
the
unintended
consequences
of
any
of
those
commercial
Banksy
tax.
F
For
instance,
you
know
you
worry
that
okay,
if
you're,
going
to
penalize
someone
for
keeping
space
vacant,
will
that
depress
interest
in
actually
even
investing
in
more
risky
risky
locations
in
the
first
place,
you
know
making
sure
that
it's
if,
if
there,
if
there
is
something,
that's
intriguing
like
that,
that
we
make
sure
we
understand
all
the
potential
trade-offs.
So
that's
that's
going
to
be
the
work
that
we'll
be
doing
in
the
months
ahead,
but
I'm
glad
that
you
pointed
it
out.
I.
E
Also
want
to
point
out
that
we
have
we
I'm
not
presenting
survey
findings
tonight,
because
the
survey
is
still
open.
We're
also
about
to
release
a
Spanish
version,
so
it'll
remain
open
a
little
bit
longer
to
make
sure
that
we
can
promote
that
appropriately.
But
we
right
now
today
have
over
1500
responses
and
those
are
all
with
short
answer
responses,
because
we
didn't
make
it
an
easy
survey.
G
Additional
question
and
I
don't
know
if
this
is
in
your
scope,
but
are
you
guys
looking
at
sort
of
you
know,
one
of
the
points
that
the
the
municipality
can
impact
is
sort
of
the
sense
of
place
right
that
public
realm,
and
so
are
you
guys,
looking
at
Place
making
opportunities
and
how
that
intersects
with
the
retail
environment?
Yes,.
E
G
B
C
Unfortunately,
we
have
already
taken
steps
to
address
specifically
those
concerns
with
the
the
clean
team,
Street
plus
ambassador
program,
which
is
going
to
be
rolling
out
in
mid-november,
specifically
to
do
that.
But
that
gets
into
something
I
wanted
to
ask
about,
which
is
the
one
of
the
slides
said.
Psychology
and
perception
and.
F
B
C
Related,
but
so
I
would
be
interested
in
some
feedback
from
the
retailers
about
their
perceptions
on
exactly
what
Lisa
was
talking
about.
How
does
it
feel
to
them
based
on
the
perception
of
the
cleanliness,
the
perception
of
safety,
there's
panhandlers
in
Evanston,
there's
also
panhandlers
in
other
places
too.
So,
if
they're
comparing
potential
locations
for
their
businesses,
what
does
that
really
mean
for
us,
or
what
do
they
perceive,
and
you
know
I
hesitate
to
say
it,
but
their
perception
is
kind
of
their
reality
right
right.
E
Yeah
and
we've
had
one
task
force,
meeting
of
business
owners
and
and
other
stakeholders
in
the
business
Community.
We
got
some
really
great
feedback.
I
think
one
thing
that
comes
to
mind:
that's
directly
related
to
what
you're
asking
is
the
you
know
real
and
perceived
safety
challenges
that
downtown
is
experiencing
right
now,
amongst
the
business
owners,
there
is
a
palpable
desire
for
the
sense
of
a
plan,
the
sense
of
a
really
coordinated
strategy
to
to
improve
the
the
circumstances
that
the
business
owners
are
experiencing
now
I
I'm.
F
Yeah
and
what
I
would
add
to
that
Sarah
is
you
know.
Part
of
this
process
is
not
just
talking
with
the
business
owners
that
are
here
already,
but
to
understand
how
the
tenant
and
the
broker
is
viewing
Evanston,
the
ones
who
aren't
here
yet
or
who
don't
want
to
come
or
are
or
are
hesitant
to
do
so.
F
You
know
and
I
think
there'll
be
a
lot
of
that
in
our
process
as
well
again
to
understand
just
what
you're
saying
how
is
Evanston
viewed
across
the
region
as
a
retail
location
and
yeah
many
cases,
it's
very
different
from
how
Evenson
itself
use
itself
as
a
retail
location
personality
for
some
of
the
factors
I
mentioned.
You
know,
they're,
looking
at
different
different
attributes,
whether
it's
cotenancy
or
what
have
you.
C
F
C
E
So
we're
still
on
track
to
have
a
final
deliverable
early
next
year.
What
you're
going
to
see
is
a
shift
from
the
sort
of
Road
data
collection
and
processing
and
sort
of
the
initial
phase
of
the
survey
to
just
sort
of
collect,
collect,
collect
and
process,
and
we
will
start
actually
kind
of
turning
it
back.
E
So
we're
going
to
start
showing
more
ideas,
Urban,
Design
and
public
space
opportunities,
really
highlighting
some
more
concrete
ideas
to
move
forward
and
then
outlining
what
are
kind
of
preliminary
recommendations
and
looking
at
them
with
these
different
groups
of
stakeholders,
yourselves
included
to
say,
is
this
realistic?
How
could
we
move
this
forward
and
actually
put
some
some
bounds
around
this
project
so
from
here
it
will
feel
a
bit
like
a
shift
we're
going
to
shift
to
thinking
about
what
we
do
with
the
information
rather
than
just.
E
Yeah
so
reviewing
it
and
folding
it
in
I
believe,
if
I'm
not
wrong,
that
that
was
a
10-year
Horizon
on
that
plan,
which
would
have
been
2017.,
and
so
it's
thinking
about
you
know
what
are
the
things
that
we
can
carry
forward
in
in
you
know
today's
world
and
circumstances
as
they
are,
and
also
is
that
really
still
on
track
with
what
we're?
What.
A
That's
what
I'm
wondering
if
you
looked
at
that
what
parts
you
feel
are
still
relevant
I,
also
wondered
I
know
you
can't
quite
do
exit
interviews,
but
I
would
be.
It
would
take
some
degree
of
Outreach
to
find
out
why
retail
is
leaving
I.
Think
that's
really
important
to
yeah.
A
Rent
is
part
of
it
and
I
also
know.
Sometimes
it's
just
I'm
having
and
property
owners
that
are
nice
to
deal
with.
That
can
make
a
difference
and.
A
Right
but
it'd
be
great
to
and
I
know
again
that
we'll
take
some
research
and
Outreach,
sometimes
because
some
have
left
Evanston
all
together
or
some
have
moved.
But
it
would
be
really
great
to
hear
some
some
results
of
conversations
with
folks
who
have
had
to
leave
to
leave
weapons.
C
C
E
D
Thank
you,
council,
member
news,
so
the
the
deadline
or
what
we,
what
we've
discussed,
is
a
kind
of
a
January
February
deliverable
when
we
discussed
arpa
last
I,
don't
know
if
it
was
last
year,
like
the
all
the
the
pandemics
have
run
together,
but
we
said
we're
going
to
pause
now
and
not
ask
the
committee
for
any
more
funding
for
any
kind
of
like
Economic
Development,
traditional
Business
Development
initiative.
Until
this
study
was
done,
because
this
was
the
driver
of
that
now
we
are
at
a
risk.
D
Frankly
of
I
I,
didn't
think
we'd
say
this,
but
running
out
of
ARP
I
mean
we're.
We
saw
recently
that
we're
down
on
the
negative
economic
impact
section
you
know
somewhere
in
the
range
of
5
million
is
that
is
that
we
don't
know
what
the
findings
are
going
to
be.
We
don't
know
what
the
recommendations
are
going
to
be.
Is
that
going
to
be
enough
seed
to
along
with
other
Capital
Improvement?
You
know
Federal
other
Federal
requests
State
funding
for
infrastructure.
D
C
D
Right
because
I,
don't
I,
don't
think
interface
is
ready
to
say,
hey.
We
need
to
make
the
streets
two
ways
like
that.
That's
what
I
want
to
recommend
to
you
right
now.
Let's
go!
Do
that
I'm,
not
sure
that
there's
a
need
for
that
I
think
there
might
be
we're
not
ready.
Yet
we're
not
ready
to.
We
really
have
a
complete
I,
don't
say
comprehensive
plan
because
that's
a
different
process.
I
have
a
complete
downtown
plan
wrapped
up
end
of
January
before
we
make
any
recommendations.
A
D
G
D
That
that
number
is
dwindling,
that
that
is
my
point,
because
we
we
categorized
it
like
kind
of
right
when
you
were
departing
and
we
we
are
allocating
for
economic
development
committee
purposes
and
the
work
we
do.
There
was
somewhere
in
the
range
of
10
million
under
negative
economic
impacts.
D
That
was
a
category
that
number
is
dwindling
because
there's
other
issue,
you
know
other
things
we
need
to
address
and
since
we're
not
front
and
center
with
this
project
with
recommendations,
yet
the
money's
fading
away,
I
don't
want
to
ring
alarm
Bells,
there's,
there's
five
million
left
in
it
right
now.
Out
of
that
10
or
12.
I'm,
going
to
send
you
an
updated
version
of
of
the
presentation
that
Sarah
flax
provided
at
city
council
just.
D
A
E
Do
you
roll
up
your
sleeves?
Well,
we
hope
it
feels
a
little
better
than
that
when
we're
done
so
there's
a
couple
phases
right,
there's
ideation,
that's
coming
up
with
the
ideas
and
that's
very
much
a
collaborative
task.
There's
once
we
sort
of
feel
like
we've
got
some
Front
Runners
and
there's
a
whole
other
phase
of
talking
about
prioritization.
What
needs
to
happen
first?
Where
do
we
need
to
grow
organizational
capacity
or
pull
in
additional
Partners?
What
is
the
part
of
the
city?
E
What
is
the
part
of
other
partners,
and
in
all
of
that
we
also
talk
about
early
actions,
and
so
what
we
do.
Interface
Studio
has
been
involved
in
sort
of
shaping
early
options
in
lots
of
different
ways,
and
sometimes
that's
coming
up
with
a
full
concept
for
a
pop-up
just
to
make
it
feel,
like
there's
momentum
coming
out
of
putting
the
stamp
on
this
plan.
We
don't
know
exactly
what
that
looks
like
yet,
but
it's
every
intention
that
we
feel
like
you've
got
the
tools
that
you
need
to
feel
like.
A
E
Could
be
I,
don't
have
Marisa
from
all
together
on
on
the
call
right
now,
but
I
do
think
there
are.
There
are
things
in
the
realm
of
activation
and
how
we
promote
this
plan
and
the
individual
districts
that
are
included
in
the
work
that
we're
doing.
A
B
A
Think
we
should
talk
about
that.
I
think
that
would
be
interesting
to
look
at
so
I.
Think.
Absolutely
that's
something
Evanston
should
always
do
in
every
realm
is,
is
compare
and
take
the
best
from
other
communities.
So
I'd
be
very
interested
in
talking
more
about
that
for
our
Economic
Development
Committee.
D
Thank
you
if,
if
I
may,
just
for
a
minute,
I
I
appreciate
you,
council
members,
Miss
deacon,
whatever
else
is
on
I,
don't
know
what
other
guests
we
have
on
our
Zoom,
but
that
was
a
lengthy
presentation,
but
it
was
really
meant
to
be
educational
and
I
hope
you
I
felt
like
you
were
really
engaged
and
I
really
appreciate
it.
We
don't
get
a
chance
to
do
this
kind
of
thing
very
often,
and
I've
said
this
to
my
colleagues.
D
I
I
feel
like
I'm,
putting
a
lot
of
weight
behind
or
a
lot
of
energy
behind
what
interface
is
doing
for
us
and
to
me,
it's
really
critical
for
our
community
that
this
report
and
the
thought
their
findings
and
the
recommendations
are
considered
seriously
and,
and
we
we
take
that
report
at
the
end,
if,
if
we
all
as
a
community
like
what
we're
hearing
and
Implement
that
I'm
a
little
nervous,
because
if
it,
if,
if
we
don't
like
it,
we've
spent
a
lot
of
time,
doing
it
right
and
I,
don't
know
what
the
answer
is.
D
So
I
really
am
just
really
excited
that
you
really
sat
and
listened
to
a
really
detailed
presentation
tonight.
G
E
Yeah
opt
out
what
the
next
few
months
will
look
like,
and
the
next
thing
on
their
Horizon
is
what
we're
calling
Community
conversations
and
it's
going
to
be
an
event
that
draws
the
sort
of
business
owner
community
and
some
of
the
other
stakeholders
that
have
been
involved
in
the
project,
to
really
wrestle
with
some
ideas
and
then
coming
out
of
that.
We'll
have
what
we
would
kind
of
consider
the
preliminary
recommendations
we
want
to
start
flushing
out
and
really
moving
forward
with
and
I
think.
E
It
would
be
appropriate
to
present
to
this
group
again
before
the
end
of
the
year,
and
then,
with
that
gut
check
with
that
check-in
with
you
all,
we
would
move
to
formalizing
and
talking
in
detail
about
implementation.
D
A
D
C
D
Kelly
or
chair
Kelly,
there
were
three
communications
items
included
in
the
packet:
we're
trying
something
a
little
different
with
how
we're
we
didn't
necessarily
think
we
need
to
discuss
the
items.
There
are
communication
items
that
we
think
are
important
for
the
community
and
for
for
the
committee
to
be
aware
of
one
is
a
a
grant
that
we
partnered
with
the
Rogers
Park
business
Alliance
in
Chicago,
the
only
Chicago
area
cities
that
received
the
rise
grants.
D
Secondly,
there's
a
communication
about
the
sustained
Evanston
incentive
program
that
will
be
a
that
will
be
in
the
in
the
budget
hearings
in
November,
we're
requesting
a
250
000
Edition
to
The
Economic,
Development
Fund,
to
help
with
incentives
for
energy,
retrofits
and
waste
management,
modernization
and
then
finally,
I
think
somebody
referenced
The,
Sidewalk
Cafe
communication.
That's
coming
out
of
Community
Development.
D
We
wanted
to
make
you
aware
of
that
and
learn
determine
if
there
were
any
concerns
you
had
included
with.
That
is
kind
of
a
small
table
comparing
Sidewalk
Cafe
permits.
D
G
May
I
know
it
on
that
point:
I
think
it
does
get
to
what
we
just
talked
about
in
seeing
how
Evanston,
Compares
and
so
I
wonder.
If
you
know
before
that's,
discussed
and
decided
on
it,
whatever
public
body
it
is,
it
would
be
interesting
to
have
them
weigh
in
on
on
that
before
those
numbers
are
determined,
because
in
my
view,
we
are
out
of
line
with
some
of
our
neighboring
communities
and
we're
not
getting
in
the
public
realm
in
that
sense
of
place.
G
What
other
communities
are
getting,
probably
because
of
the
rules
and
regs
that
we
are
creating
and
so
I
think
that
needs
to
be
unpacked
a
little
bit
before
it's
just
voted
on
and
I,
don't
want
to
be
Pennywise
and
pound
foolish
right,
so
we're
getting
our
permit
fees
yay,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day,
it's
not
serving
us
in
a
broader.
You
know
from
the
broader
View.
D
A
D
Yeah,
thank
you
yeah.
We
will
post
the
recording
once
the
team
edits
it
and
we
will
post,
if
you
don't
don't
mind
post
the
the
PowerPoint
great,
so
yeah,
we'll
post,
we'll
post
the
actual
slide
deck
as
well.
Yes,
that
way,
you
don't
have
to
take
notes.
Next
time,
I
saw
you.
C
D
We
we
again
that's
that's
a
reference
piece
to
see.
You
know
latest
development
activity,
it's
probably
80
percent
up-to-date
things
happen
relatively
quickly
and
then
there's
also
a
real
estate
transfer
tax
report.
D
That
has
not
been
confirmed
by
AMC
and
each
time
the
owner
has
told
us
that
it's
opening
up
at
the
end
of
the
month,
the
end
of
that
month
comes
and
then
the
answer
is
it's
the
end
of
the
following
month.
So
we
we,
you
know
we're
trying
to
set
expectations,
but
I
can
only
report
what
the
ownership
has
reported
to
us,
but
it
makes
sense
holiday
season's
coming
up
and
they
have
their
permits
and
they're
doing
work
in
there.
So,
let's
hope.
G
Two
other
anchor
type
questions.
Any
updates
there
was
conversation
about
moving
the
farmer's
market.
Is
that
still
under
consideration
is
one
question
and
are
there
any
updates
on
Fountain
Square
in
in
fully
utilizing
its
full
design?
There.
D
Yeah
I'll
answer
the
first
one
I'll
ask
the
council
members
to
give
an
update
on
phone
Square
because
I
don't
have
an
update,
I,
don't
know
if
the
the
the
the
farmer's
market
was
an
idea
pre-covered
that
that's
been
shelved
for
now.
I
I
I
I
still
have
my
own
kind
of
professional
opinion
about
it.
I
think
it
would
be
a
wonderful
addition
to
the
downtown
I.
Don't
think
our
community
is
ready
for
that.
D
Yet
I
think
the
the
farmers
market
constituents
love
where
it
is
I'm
not
going
to
interfere
in
that,
but
and
we'll
also,
maybe
ask
our
consultant
to
study
that
see
what
other
communities
do,
but
there's
there's
no
movement
or
no
plan
to
to
make
any
movements
regarding
Fountain,
Square,
I,
don't
know
if
there's
anything
publicly
we
can
discuss.
There's
a
the
lawsuit
is
ongoing.
A
D
Right
and
frankly,
There's
an
opportunity,
maybe
revisit
the
design.
I
know
it's
pretty
new
design,
but
maybe
we've
learned
some
things
over
the
last
three
years
or
so
that
the
Christmas
tree
has
been
replaced
once
a
year.
The
whole
idea
was
a
tree
was
supposed
to
be
planted
forever
and
it's
replaced
just
like
cutting
down
a
tree.
Why
is
that?
Because
salt
gets
at
the
roots
and
the
landscaping
around
the
base
of
the
tree
is
all
dead
and
there's
there's
just
some
some
things.
I
think
we
can
reevaluate
I,
think
we're
open
to
it.
A
D
A
That
front
so
I
think
we're
waiting
before
we
make
a
decision
whether
to
go
ahead
and
allocate
funds
to
see
when
that
might
be
coming.
Your.
G
And
I
promise
I
won't
be
so
chatty
in
future
meetings,
but
I've
had
a
lot
of
pent-up
questions,
and
so
one
final
question
I
think:
there's
an
opportunity
at
hand
which
is
to
communicate
to
find
additional
communication
Channels
with
the
residents
of
Evanston
I.
Think
there's
a
lot
of
people
that
you
know
you
put
out
the
newsletters
I
read
them,
but
most
people
don't
read
them
I.
G
Think
most
people
want
to
know
what's
happening
with
the
movie
theater
what's
happening
with
Fountain
Square,
and
this
there's
this
General
sense
of
like
apathy,
I,
think
about
you,
know,
sort
of
what's
happening.
What
is
the
city
doing
and
I
think
we
need
to
think
I
think
we
need
to
think
a
little
bit
more
about
how
we
communicate
momentum
so
that
people
understand
that
there
is
stuff
at
work
and
there's
real
openings
and
there's
real
momentum
and
I
think
that's
an
important
part
of
what
we
need
to
be
thinking
about
here.
Okay,.