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From YouTube: Human Services Committee Meeting 7-13-2022
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A
A
Moved
by
council
member
herrera,
cuttis
seconded
by
second
councilmember
burns,
all
those
in
favor
say
aye
aye,
all
those
opposed
any
abstentions.
Great
that
will
move
us
into
public
comment.
We
will
start
with
folks
who
sought.
A
Oh,
my
apologies,
I
would
can
we
have
a
motion
to
and
thank
you
I'd
like
to
entertain
a
motion
to
reconsider
the
the
minutes
so
moved
moved
by
council
member
hericatis
secondary
council
member
burns,
all
those
in
favor
hi
all
right.
We
are
reconsidering
the
minutes
and
thank
you,
miss
white
for
noting
council
member
revell
made
an
amendment.
I
believe
she
I
know
she
sent
it
to
us.
I
think
it
was
sent
to
everyone.
The
amendment
staff
knows
what
that
amendment
is.
A
It
is
that
she
voted
no
on
a
number
of
at
least
one
ordinance,
and
so
we
have
those
notes.
It
will
be
corrected
by
ms
white,
and
so
can
someone
move
that
amendment
council,
member
revell's
amendment
to
the
minutes
moved
by
councilmember,
jerry
cartis,
signed
it
by
council
member
burns
on
the
amendment
to
all
those
in
favor
aye,
all
those
opposed,
any
abstentions.
Okay,
the
amendment
to
the
minutes
passes
and
now
to
the
actual
minutes
as
amended
all
those
in
favor
aye
all
right,
all
those
opposed
any
abstentions.
A
The
eyes
have
it
now
we
are
on
to
public
comment
and
we'll
first
start
with
the
folks
who
have
signed
up
in
person.
I
imagine
there
are
folks
online
who
want
to
speak
as
well,
but
we'll
start
with
the
folks
who
are
in
person
and
we'll
start
with
miss
park.
B
B
B
B
B
B
At
the
same
time,
we
regret
that
we
won't
have
a
chance
to
help
that
former
resident
get
the
help
he
so
desperately
needs.
Prior
to
that
incident,
we
worked
with
the
young
man
for
a
year
and
a
half
one
year
at
the
margarita
and
six
months
prior
to
that
at
our
drop-in,
and
we
had
no
significant
incidents,
certainly
not
violent
ones.
That
involved
him.
B
None
of
us
are
naive
about
the
challenges
people
experiencing
homelessness
face,
nor
the
challenges
faced
by
the
communities
in
which
they
live.
Ending
homelessness
isn't
easy,
but
one
thing
we
do
know
for
certain
homelessness
doesn't
just
go
away.
If
you
ignore
it,
we
have
to
face
it
and
to
fix
it.
Connections
will
continue
its
work
to
do
just
that
and
to
include
the
margarita
in
and
a
new,
exciting
and
innovative
model
with
which
to
do
so.
As
always.
If
you
have
any
questions,
you
should
not
hesitate
to
reach
out
to
me.
Thank
you.
A
Thank
you.
Miss
bogg
next
for
in
person,
is
john
cleve.
Yes,
sorry,
yes,
john
cleveland,
no
worries.
C
And
what
I'm
here
to
say,
if
you
don't
like,
can
I
take
the
mask
off?
Yeah
ultimately
might
be
preempted,
because
jonathan
informed
me
that
you
might
be
tabling
the
move
of
the.
C
Right,
I'm
sorry
so
I'm
here
to
talk
specifically
about
jonathan's
proposal
to
the
committee
to
move
the
65
0
or
oh
22,
shelters
for
the
temporary
homeless
proposal
to
the
full
council,
and
I
would
like
to
be
brief.
But
I
do
have
basically
I'm
I'm
live
at
1109
grove,
I'm
about
three
doors
away
from
the
margarita,
and
while
this
covers
all
things,
you
know
all
properties
that
wish
to
operate
in
this
way,
not
just
the
margarita.
C
And
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
find
a
balance
between
what
we're
doing
there
and
the
700
odd
residents
that
live
in
with
close
to
it
and
that
many
of
which
are
at
least
a
good
proportion
of
which
have
had
problems
over
the
past
two
years
in
the
con.
In
the
way
that
connections
has
run
it,
so
there
was
an
incident
on
monday.
Ultimately,
as
she
said,
it
was
handled
by
the
son
of
the
owner
of
the
property
and
not
by
a
staff
member.
Nonetheless,
the
problem
did
occur,
not
the
first
problem.
C
That's
occurred,
there
they've
had
several
arsons
they've
had
other
things,
so
I'm
hoping
that
what
the
license
does
it
says,
rather
than
just
trust
that
connections
is
going
to
do
a
good
job.
We
have
legal
remediation
that
we
can
say.
This
is
the
standards
that
the
communities
agreed
that
you
operate
within
and
that,
ultimately,
we
can
get
along
in
that
respect,
that
we
don't
just
do
trust,
it's
trust,
plus
verify
and
that
ultimately,
the
license
is
there.
So
I
having
read
through
the
license
several
times
and
actually
having
given
some
input
to
it
with
kelly.
C
I
do
have
a
few
things
that
you
might
consider
adding
to
the
license
to.
I
think
help
achieve
that
balance
between
us
doing
the
greater
good
that
we
all
want
to
do
and
protecting
the
community
and
the
neighbors
that
are
there.
I
don't
know
I
made
copies
of
this.
I
probably
should
have
submitted
earlier.
I
don't
know
if
I
can
just
hand
you
guys
copies
to
have
with
it.
C
Are
areas
like
the
quote
about
preference
for
evanston
residents?
It
would
be
great
if
it
were
aimed
exclusively
people
who
previously
resided
there.
The
idea
that
they
have
staff
is
written
in
there,
but
it
would
be
great
if
it
were
licensed
staff,
because
this
is
a
very
high
needs
population,
as
we
know
having
somebody
who
has
just
been
seeing
an
hour
powerpoint
that
tells
them
how
to
behave
is
not
sufficient
to
deal
with
a
very
high-risk
population.
C
There
are,
I
think
there
should
be
arguments
about
the
you
know,
staff
that
are
that
are
servicing
the
the
thing
and
as
well
a
few
other
areas,
particularly
the
area
of
the
cooperation
with
police,
because
we've
seen
incidents
where
the
police
have
been
in
a
conduct
of
criminal
investigations
and
have
been
thwarted
numerous
times
getting
in
there.
So
if
we
can
add
language
around
that,
so
you
can
read
through
this.
It's
a
it's
a
short
document.
I
feel
that
that
does
strike
that
correct
balance
between
the
two
sides
of
it.
A
Thank
you,
and
if
you
have
one
extra
copy
of
your
thing,
I
I
figure
there's
someone
right
behind
you
that
might
want
a
copy.
If
you
want
to
share
miss
bogg
may
want
a
copy.
A
Thank
you
and
that
takes
us
to
folks
who
are
online.
I
I
do
not
know
everyone
that's
online.
That
wants
to
give
a
public
comment,
but
I
certainly
see
a
face
that
I
am
quite
sure
wants
to
give
public
comments.
So
mr
dillo
christopher
phil
free
to
go.
D
Thank
you
very
much.
I
appreciate
your
time
today
so
for
public
record
and
for
this
audience
I
want
to
make
sure
that
everyone's
aware
that
a
conversation
with
the
fourth
ward
alderman
yesterday,
he
reported
to
me-
and
I
quote-
everyone
knows
that
this
license
that's
before
you
today
is
being
created
for
connections
for
the
homeless
and
that
the
timing
of
this
proposal,
while
it
is
extraordinarily
incomplete,
is
aligned
with
connections
for
the
homeless
attempt
to
purchase
the
building.
So,
while
I
don't
know
everything
about
the
contract,
I'm
reporting
to
you.
D
What
the
fourth
world
alderman
reported
to
me,
which
is
extremely
disturbing
on
its
face
to
be
clear.
That
alderman
is
asking
this
body
to
put
the
entrance
of
connections
for
the
homeless
before
our
community
and
rubber
stamp,
having
an
adequate
license
agreement
that
is
destined
to
alter
the
landscape
of
the
fourth
ward
in
any
future
ward
on
and
they're,
putting
it
in
front
of
you
without
having
input
from
impacted
community
stakeholders.
D
This
audience
right
here:
police,
fire,
neighbors,
neighboring
businesses,
health,
mental
care
services,
addiction
services,
all
of
which
have
been
burdened
incredibly
over
the
last
two
years
and
will
continue
to
be
so
and
have
not
been
a
part
of
what
this
license
is
going
to
be.
There
has
been
no
short
or
long
term
impact
studies.
We
have
no
idea
the
financial
impact
of
creating
a
license
such
as
this
and
how
margarita
ends
going
to
use
it.
I
mean
we
could
look
historically
and
see
what
the
costs
are,
but
there's
been
no
study
to
do
that.
D
There's
been
no
community
impact
study.
What's
the
crime
going
to
look
like
the
fire,
there
have
been
arsons
there:
the
property
values,
mental
health
issues,
economic
impact
to
businesses.
So
what
does
it
do
when
you
take
an
a
facility
like
this
next
to
other
facilities
like
this?
And
what
does
it
do
to
the
fourth
ward?
From
an
economic
standpoint?
Have
they
been
consulted
on?
Do
we
have
expert
advice?
D
This
is
great
examples
of
how
this
has
worked
throughout
the
country,
but
yet
we
just
have
this
kind
of
light
framework
straw,
man,
whatever
you
want
to
call
this-
that's
being
presented
here
at
this
time
for
a
very
specific
reason,
this
extra
advice
couldn't
be.
You
know,
tenant
capacity
like
we
already
know
that
aggregating
large
numbers
of
vulnerable
people
in
the
same
place
fails
as
a
failed
experiment
throughout
the
country.
It's
failed
in
chicago
and
it's
failed
in
every
city.
D
Everyone
says
disperse,
you
know,
but
here
we're
trying
to
put
them
all
in
the
same
place.
Staff-To-Resident
ratios
standards,
benchmarks
operations,
community
outreach,
partnering
betting.
None
of
these
things
have
had
experts
weigh
in
to
say
here.
This
is
the
benchmark.
This
is
what's
worked.
This
is
how
it's
handled
in
places
across
the
country.
You
know
where
this
has
been
successful.
D
Here's
where
I'm
particularly
concerned
is
that
references
to
safeguards
that
have
been
excluded
from
prior
homeless
ordinances,
because
this
directly
caters
to
corrections
for
the
homeless,
because
these
are
things
that
cannot
be
solved
by
the
margarita
inn:
proximity
to
schools,
proximity
to
like
facilities.
They
can't
sell
that.
So
that's
not
in
this
license,
but
yet
it
is
in
the
current
homeless
or
temporary
housing
statutes
in
the
city
of
evans.
So
you
know
I'm
thinking.
That's
still
probably
a
good
idea.
You
know.
D
Also
special
use
criteria
is
not
included
in
here,
including
causing
negative
cumulative
effect,
considering
in
conjunction
with
human
effects
of
various
special
uses
of
other
types
in
the
immediate
neighborhood,
which
we
have
heard
time
and
time
again
from
nusmud
that
the
fourth
ward
is
particularly
burdened
with
this
amount
of
types
of
facilities.
Far
more
than
any
other
ward
in
the
city
doesn't
interfere,
diminish
the
value
of
property
in
the
neighborhood
has
adequately
served
by
public.
D
Oh
I'm
totally
gonna
wrap
up.
I
only
have
two
more
things
to
say
on
and
finally,
and
probably
most
importantly,
no
safeguards
would
have
prevented
the
sexual
abuse
of
a
child
or
children
and
I'm
sorry
betty,
but
I
prefer
to
go
with
what
police
said
and
what
the
folks
on
the
ground
said
that
there
were
children
there.
Just
because
you
say
it's
not
doesn't
make
it
so,
which
occurred
last
tuesday,
there's
no
vetting
written
into
the
license
and
there's
no
limiting
by
population
or
gender
or
family.
D
So
basically,
what
happened
last
tuesday
would
happen
again
and
again
and
if
the
police
weren't
there
or
if
it
was
managed
by
somebody
on
staff,
we
would
never
hear
about
it.
I'm
going
to
say
this.
The
last
thing
I
want
to
say
is
the
fourth
world.
Alderman
right
now
is
subverting
the
function
of
this
committee
by
submitting
an
incomplete
proposal
to
achieve
the
goals
of
a
private
organization
to
make
a
private
real
estate
deal.
This
cannot
stand.
We
are
better
than
this.
D
A
Yeah,
let's
just
check
it
seems
as
if
there
is
no
one
else
that
would
like
to
give
public
comment.
If
you
would
please
unmute
yourself
and
present
yourself,
otherwise,
councilmember
burns
said.
E
And
I
don't
know
if
this
is
something
that
that
chief
editing
can
speak
to,
but
what
was
just
shared
was
shared
a
few
nights
ago
about
whether
about
the
circumstances
around
the
recent
margarita
incident
in
margarita
inn
and
what
are
the
facts,
and
you
know
because
I
think
it
we
are
owed
it.
The
public
is
owed
it
and
I
like
working
on
facts
and
if
I
just
want
to
make
it
clear,
because
what
we've
been
shared
is
very
disturbing
and
we
just
need
to
know
what
it
is
and
what
it
isn't.
F
Council,
member,
if
I
I
may
make
the
suggestion,
the
complete
police
report
is
on
my
desk
I'll,
be
happy
again
and
I
would
prefer
to
read
it
verbatim
rather
than
try
and
remember,
because
I
think
there's
some
specifics
in
there
that
that
I
don't
want
to
mess
up
by
just
talking
off
the
top
of
my
head.
So
if
we
could
delay
this
discussion,
give
me
give
me
20
minutes
to
get
there
and
back
and
I'll
be
right
back
with
it.
E
And
I
just
would
like
to
to
for
that
to
get
out
to
the
public
again.
This
is
if
this
is
something
that's
going
to
be
repeated
over
and
over
and
over
again
again,
I
think
this
body
is
owed
it
and
also
the
public
just
to
know
what
the
facts
are.
So
I
appreciate
that.
Thank
you
all
right,
I'll
see
you
shortly,
sir.
A
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Is
there
anyone
else
who
is
seeking
to
give
public
comment,
seeing
no
one
else
seeking
to
give
public
comment.
A
Okay,
with
that,
we
are
going
to
switch
the
order
of
the
agenda
a
bit
to
move
up
the
ordinance
regarding.
So
I'm
seeking
emotion
on
ordnance,
65022
modifying
title
8,
chapter
17,
shelters
for
the
temporarily
homeless,
emotion,.
A
So
moved
by
councilmember,
herreras
seconded
by
council
member
burns,
I
would
like
to
bring
councilmember
nusma,
who
is
here
in
the
audience
and
who
made
this
referral
to
walk
through
it
and
make
statements.
G
Yeah,
thank
you,
chair
reid
and
colleagues
on
the
committee
director
ogbo,
I'm
jonathan
nussma,
councilmember,
representative
of
the
fourth
ward.
I
did
make
this
referral
to
create
this
license
and
I
would
like
to
take
a
few
minutes
and
and
talk
about
the
larger
context
in
which
this
license
is
going
to
play
a
part.
G
Before
I
do
that,
I
would
like
to
request
that
the
item
before
us
tonight
hs4
be
tabled
because
it
does
need
it
doesn't
need.
It
does
need
some
more
work.
As
you
know,
this
is
a
body
that
can't
get
anything
done
without
multiple
swings
at
it.
It
took
us
five
tries
to
get
a
commercial
vehicle
parking
license
done,
so
this
is
significantly
more
important
than
that.
G
I'd
like
to
take
the
time
that
we
need
to
do
it
right,
appreciate,
council
member
burns,
for
you
know
requesting
that
factual
clarification
from
a
police
chief
that
will
be
informative
for
this
discussion,
but
larger
context
here
is
the
problem
with
homelessness
that
exists
around
the
country
and
here
in
evanston
and
we're
seeing
those
you
know
those
national
trends
play
out
here
in
this
context,
as
we
are
in
in
many
other
areas
as
well,
not
here
to
talk
about
homelessness
as
a
problem,
I
I
will
point
out
that
everyone-
I've
talked
to
neighbors
near
and
far
close
to
the
the
margarita,
and
everyone
agrees
that
homelessness
is
a
problem
and
we
need
to
do
something
about
it
and
in
a
certain
sense,
the
solution
to
homelessness
is
really
easy
to
give
people
a
place
to
stay
and
they
would
no
longer
be
homeless
and
we've
known
this
for
years.
G
For
example,
a
quote:
the
consolidated
plan,
which
was
approved
by
the
city
council
in
january
of
2010,
quote
additional
transitional
and
permanent
supportive
housing
beds
and
units
are
needed
for
both
individuals
and
families
a
lot
more
to
it
than
that.
But
you
know
just
one
indication
that
we
have
known
about
this
problem
for
years,
and
here
we
are
in
2022.
G
We
find
ourselves
with
a
historic
opportunity
in
front
of
us
to
do
the
right
thing
and
to
solve
a
problem.
That's
been
intractable
in
our
community
for
for
decades
and
at
least
to
start
to
solve
the
problem,
and
you
know
I'd
like
us
to
seize
this
opportunity
to
live
up
to
our
values
of
inclusivity
and
equity
that
we
all
you
know,
say
we
hold
dear
as
a
community-
and
you
know
I'd
like
us-
to
put
our
values
into
action
and
take
advantages.
G
Take
advantage
of
take
advantage
of
this
opportunity
as
we
do
this,
we
are
going
to
have
to
do
it
right,
and
that
means
that
the
community
has
to
be
on
board
and
be
comfortable
with
the
arrangements
that
that
we're
coming
up
with
and
arrangements
that
you
know
as
we
move
forward,
and
we
do
have
some
work
to
do,
as
evidenced
by
the
public
comment.
We
have.
We
have
heard
tonight
and
we
have
some
work
to
do
before
I'm
going
to
be
comfortable
voting
to
approve
anything.
G
So
we
do
have
some
time
to
close
the
gap
between
the
perceptions
and
the
reality,
we're
making
some
progress
on
that
tonight,
and
so
that's
important
for
one
thing,
but
also
once
we
you
know
can
agree
on
a
reality.
If
that,
if
needs
to
be
changed
or
modified,
we
need
to
be
able
to
do
that
as
well.
G
So
I'm
looking
forward
to
doing
the
right
thing,
and
that
means
that
the
city
has
to
have
strong
regulatory
oversight
over
any
operation,
doing
this
kind
of
work
to
ensure
that
the
needs
of
the
residents
being
served
inside
the
facility
are
being
met
and
also
to
ensure
that
the
needs
of
the
neighbors
in
the
in
the
community
are
also
being
met.
So,
in
order
to
accomplish
this
objective,
we
are
moving
forward.
I
intend
to
move
forward,
at
least
with
a
three-pronged
approach.
G
First
leg
of
that
approach
is
the
zoning
process
and
we
went
through
some
discussion
a
few
months
ago
to
kind
of
clarify
what
that
zoning
process
would
look
like
is
going
to
look
like
for
the
margarita
inn,
so
we've
confirmed
that
what
their
process
is
going
to
be
connections
has
not
submitted
an
application.
Yet
when
they
do
that
connection,
that
process
will
follow
the
same
procedure
as
any
other
special
use.
First,
it
would
go
to
the
land
use
commission,
then,
to
the
planning
and
development
committee,
then
ultimately
to
the
city
council.
G
So
to
put
some
timeline
on
that.
Even
if
connections
submitted
the
application
tomorrow,
it
wouldn't
make
it
to
the
land
use
commission
until
october
and
not
till
the
full
council,
probably
until
sometime
towards
the
end
of
the
year.
That's
if
everything
you
know
kind
of
went
smoothly,
and
so
there's
ample
opportunity
for
public
engagement.
You
know
within
that
process,
and
you
know
outside
of
that
process
as
well
with
any
special
use.
G
G
Is
this
licensed
structure
and
part
of
doing
this
right
meanings
defining
what
doing
it
right
means
so
getting
into
the
the
details
that
mr
dillo
was
was
referring
to
the
staffing
ratios
program
requirements,
admissions
requirements,
security
obligations
and
so
forth.
I
don't
need
to
write
the
regulations
right
now.
G
That's
what
we're
in
the
process
of
doing
and
once
we
put
these
into
place
with
a
license
that
license
that'll
have
real
teeth
that
will
provide
the
city
with
the
ongoing
oversight
and
authority
that
we
need
to
make
sure
that
the
residents
inside
the
facility
and
the
neighbors
next
door
that
their
needs
are
all
that
their
needs
are
all
being
met.
G
We
have
some
time
I'd
like
to
take
the
time
to
do
this
right
and
not
rush
it
through
the
process.
So
I
you
know,
I'm
just
reiterating
a
request
that
we
table
this
to
make
sure
we
are
getting
some
input
from
various
stakeholders,
including
some
independent
subject
matter
experts,
so
that
we
can
make
the
community
feel
as
comfortable
as
possible
that
we're
approaching
this
diligently
go
on
just
for
another
minute
or
two.
The
third
leg
of
the
stool
is
is
the
good
neighbor
agreement.
G
G
So
that
will
the
good
neighbor
agreement
will
kind
of
establish
some
mutual
expectations
for
the
community
and
and
for
connections,
establish
some
reporting
channels,
and
I
think
the
good
neighbor
agreement
should
be
a
condition
of
that
special
use.
So,
in
closing,
I
just
want
to
acknowledge
that
the
work
that
connections
for
the
homeless
has
been
doing
in
our
community
for
decades
is
important
work.
It's
work
that
we
need
them
to
be
doing
as
a
community.
G
They
are
looking
out
for
our
best
interest
in
serving
the
needs
of
our
entire
community
by
doing
doing
the
work
that
they
that
they
do
they've
been
collaborative
throughout
this
process
and
have
been
willing
to
make
changes
when
we've
discussed
them,
and
I
have
no
reason
to
believe
that
they
will
not
be
willing
to
make
further
changes.
G
Should
we
require
them
as
this
process
unfolds,
and
so
just
to
reiterate,
I'm
looking
forward
to
solving
this
problem
in
our
community
in
such
a
way
that
we
can
all
be
proud
of
in
such
a
way
that
it
becomes
a
future
of
the
community
that
everyone
is
comfortable
with.
We
need
to
do
this
right
and
let's
take
the
time
to
do
that
right.
Thank
you.
A
Is
there
any
comment
from
it's
for
action,
but
yeah,
but
so
is
there
any
discussion
at
this
time?
Has
there
been
a
there's,
not
been
a
motion,
so
if
you're
in
the
table.
E
No
thanks
for
the
update.
The
only
thing
I
would
encourage
from
the
community,
no
matter
how
you
feel
about
this
issue
is
to
participate
and
in
any
good
negotiation
there
there
needs
there
is.
You
can
expect
that
there's
going
to
be
trade-offs
and
compromises
on
both
sides
and
if
either
side
doesn't
want
that
it's
not
a
good
faith,
negotiation
and
and
if
you're
not
willing
to
negotiate
in
good
faith,
then
you
might
as
well
just
make
that
clear
and
say:
look.
E
I
just
don't
want
this
at
all
period
under
any
circumstances
or
from
a
connection
standpoint,
look
we're
we're
coming
in
hot,
no
matter
how
you
want
it
and
we're
not
willing
to
to
make
any
changes
and
improvements,
and
so
it
has
to
be
good
faith
and
again
what
comes
with
you
so
meaning
you're
not
going
to
get
everything
on
here
most
likely,
you
know
what
I
mean
and
that's
true
in
any
deal,
whether
it's
a
real
estate
deal
or
this
type
of
deal.
E
So
I
just
want
to
continue
to
encourage
that,
because
there's
some
really
good
ideas
in
here
and
what
I've
seen
happen
historically
in
evanston
is
people
are
like
look
it's
either
all
or
nothing,
and
then
they
miss
out
opportunities
to
get
some
of
this
stuff
in
there
right,
so
just
keep,
participating
and
and
we'll
get
there
we'll
get
there.
That's
all!
Oh.
H
A
If
you
want
to
run
in
chicago
or
somewhere,
director
ogbo.
H
So
I
I
just
want
this
message
to
serve
as
a
reminder
that
the
next
human
services
meeting
is
august.
First,
that
leaves
us
two
weeks
for
us
to
draft
sort
of
a
new
ordinance.
I
don't
know
if
that
will
be
ample
time
for
that
or
or
we
can
table
it
for
the
september
meeting.
A
Yeah,
so
this
will
not
be
coming
back
at
august
1st,
so
folks
to
be
clear.
We
are
going
to
table
this
and
it
will
come
back
at
some
future
date
much
further
out
than
two
weeks
or
four
weeks
or
anything
like
that.
It'll
come
back
at
some
point.
So
may
I
have
a
motion
to
table
this
item.
I
A
Okay,
all
those
in
favor.
A
All
those
opposed
any
abstentions,
the
eyes
have
it
great.
Okay,
that
moves
us
back
to
our
regular
agenda.
A
Thank
you
so
that
moves
us
back
to
our
regular
agenda
and
so
may
have
a
motion
on
hs1.
A
Second,
great,
it's
been
properly
moved
and
seconded.
Is
there
any
discussion
on
this
item
or
do
we
have
staff
here
that
want
to
give
any
presentation?
Is
sarah?
Are
you
looking
at
or
just
respond
to
questions
if
there
are
any
anybody
have
any
no
okay
yeah?
So
then,
seeing
no
discussion
on
this
item.
E
A
All
those
opposed
any
abstentions,
the
eyes
have
it
wonderful.
That
brings
us
to
hs2
approval
of
five
hundred
thousand
dollars
for
of
arpa
funding
for
a
child
care
workforce
retention
program.
I
have
a
motion.
A
Okay,
well,
I
will
just
say
that
they
think
this
is
an
interesting
program.
What
we'll
be
doing
is
providing
essentially
I
mean
it's
hazard,
pay
essentially
for
child
care
workers
in
order
to
help
have
retention.
So
this
is
a
neat
program
and
the
city
is
funding
it
and
looking
forward
to
seeing
this
come
to
council
all
those
in
favor.
A
E
It's
just
if
there's
anything
the
city
can
do
to
advocate,
and
I
don't
know
if
this
is
at
the
state
level
or
where
this
is
just
for
increased
pay,
for
this
particular
from
for
members
in
in
this
profession,
generally,
I'd
love
for
us
to
get
involved
at
that
level.
This
is
a
really
important
gesture,
but
I
think
to
ensure
stability
within
this
profession,
we
need
to
figure
out
a
way
to
increase
their
compensation
and,
however,
the
city
can
get
involved
in
that
you
know.
I
think
we
should.
H
A
And
in
other
ways
that
we
can
do,
we
can
also
use
other
methods,
and
I
agree:
I
think,
that
wages
in
the
child
care
profession
have
been
stagnant
for
a
while
and
particularly
given
inflation
and
the
pandemic.
I
think
you
know
part
of
the
reason
we
are
seeing
an
issue
retaining
the
workforce
in
a
whole
host
of
areas,
but
particularly
in
child
care
is
because
of
the
low
wages
and
the
immense
amount
of
work
associated
with
these
kinds
of
jobs.
A
Seeing
no
further
discussion
on
this
item,
all
those
in
favor
say
aye
hi,
all
those
opposed
any
abstentions.
The
eyes
have
it
wonderful
I'd
like
to
skip
one
item
for
us.
A
I'd
like
to
skip
a
few
items
for
a
second
and
go
to
hs,
one
which
is
review.
I'm
sorry.
A
No,
no,
I'm
sorry
hs1
in
items
for
communication,
I'm
going
to
skip
down
to
that
now,
and
so
that
is
the
review
of
the
evanston
police
complaints
and
comments
report.
J
Start
with
summary
of
facts,
the
accused
officers
witnessed
a
fight
between
juveniles,
while
they
were
on
stationary
patrol
the
1600
block
of
foster
by
fleewood
jourdain.
The
accused
officers
exited
the
squad
car
separated
the
teens
and
placed
them
in
cuffs
than
in
two
separate
squad.
Cars
and
the
juvenile
detectives
were
called
to
arrive
on
scene
and
assist.
The
juvenile
juvenile
suspects
were
taken
to
the
evanston
police
department.
J
J
The
complaint
further
alleged
that
the
accused
officer
smirked
at
the
complainant
when
she
spoke
about
the
incident.
The
complaint
also
alleged
that
the
officer
that
the
sergeant
interviewed
the
child
without
permission
without
a
guardian
present.
So
with
regards
to
the
allegations
against
the
accused
officers,
one
and
two
their
actions
were
found
to
be
within
policy.
J
J
J
J
E
The
allegation
that
someone
was
kicked
in
the
head,
that
was
there,
was
body
camera
video
showing
that
that
did
not
take
place
there
was
there,
was
adequate
recording
throughout
this
entire
encounter.
That.
J
Yeah
not
only
there
was
their
police
body
weren't
camera
footage.
There
was
also
footage
from
private
cell
phones
that
we
were
able
to
review
reviewing
all
those
in
their
totality
revealed
that
there
was
no
no
kicking
of
the
juvenile
by
the
officer.
Thank.
A
J
A
I
So
in
the
report
there's
on
page
four,
it
talks
about
the
policy
about
interviewing
juveniles
with
or
without
a
guardian.
It
mentioned
that
the
policy
is
not
clear.
Is
that
something
that
our
department
is
working
on
kind
of
clarifying,
so.
J
There's
less
yeah,
the
short
answer
is
yes,
so
part
of
this
review
was,
I
believe,
could
best
summarize
supporting
the
written
reprimand
was
taking
the
totality
of
the
entire,
even
though
that
the
policy
may
have
been
deemed
to
be
vague,
there's
an
expectation
that
you
know
policy
is
not
going
to
dictate
every
decision
and
people,
especially
sergeants,
should
be
able
to
make
decisions
based
on
highly
the
circumstances
the
rent
was
issued
because
we
felt
that
decision
making
fell
short
now
with
regards
to
has
the
policy
been
changed
and
yes
for
such
as
the
administrative
investigation
as
a
use
of
force,
there
is
clear
direction:
the
policy
that,
if
a
juvenile
is
involved,
that
guidance
mirrors
what's
required
by
law
with
a
criminal
investigation
involving
a
juvenile
great.
A
J
A
Thank
you.
One
question:
has
the
body
worn
camera
footage
been
reviewed
by
our
civilian
police
board.
J
Yes,
it
is
a
practice
that
we
encourage,
but
we
think
that
for
the
board
to
be
effective
and
to
be
able
to
render
a
decision
that
an
investigation
is
complete,
thorough,
so
on
so
forth
that
reviewing
body-worn
camera
footage
is
important.
So,
yes,
the
body-worn
camera
footage
was
reviewed
by
the
commission
as.
A
Well,
as
the
other
footage
that
you
all
had
access
to
the
cell
phone
video.
J
E
Information
is
that
information
now
kind
of
automatically
provided
to
the
committee
or
are
they
do?
They
still
need
to
request?
J
So
we've
been
standing
this
committee
up
in
the
past.
We
we
felt
it
very
important
that
the
body-worn
camera
footage
be
viewed
so
as
part
of
preparing
these
investigations
reviewed
by
cprc,
we
get
the
body-worn
camera,
camera
footage,
ready
for
review,
appropriate,
redactions
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
And
then
the
committee
moves
into
executive
session
to
review
that
and
then
comes
back
out
of
the
executive
session
to
discuss
what
they
observe.
So
we
make
every
effort.
J
We
feel
that
it's
very
important
that
if
the
city
has
invested
this
kind
of
money
in
the
bodywork
camera
program,
that
we
feel
it's
that
important
it
has
to
be
important
everywhere
and
it
has
to
be
important
in
this
review
process.
A
Thank
you,
but
I
think
that
concludes
questions
on
that
particular
item.
J
Very
good,
so
with
that
I'm
going
to
move
on
to
cr21-03,
we'll
start
with
a
summary
of
the
facts.
The
accused
officer
witnessed
the
complainant
neglecting
to
perform
a
full
stop
at
a
stop
sign
that
officer
initiated
a
traffic.
Stop.
J
The
accused
officer
discovered
that
three
children
sitting
in
the
back
seat
were
not
properly
secured
in
their
child
seats.
The
accused
officer
initiated
an
investigation
regarding
the
child
safety
restraint
violation
that
they
observed
all
parties
were
calm
during
the
traffic.
Stop
the
complainant
asked
the
officer
a
question
with
regards
to
the
child
seats.
J
J
The
accused
officer
inspected,
the
safety
belt
demonstrated
the
belt
was
loose
and
not
secure,
but
there
was
no
physical
contact
between
the
officer
and
the
complaint.
Its
children,
the
complainant,
was
issued
citations
for
child
safety,
seat
violations
and
neglecting
to
perform
a
full
stop
of
the
stop
sign.
J
The
accused
officer
as
part
of
the
stop
gave
information
to
the
complainant
to
find
assistance
for
securing
child
safety
seats
and
warn
the
complaint
of
the
potential
danger
of
not
having
children
correctly
secured
in
their
seat,
while
driving
all
parties
left
the
traffic
stop.
Without
further
incident
and
later
in
court,
the
driver
pled
guilty.
J
J
The
complaint
further
stated
that
he
did
not
feel
safe
during
the
traffic
stop
and
that
his
children
were
scared.
The
officer
was
exonerated
and
his
actions
were
found
to
be
with
the
policy
almost
primarily
due
to
the
fact.
The
investigation
just
did
not
support
the
complainant's
perception
of
events.
J
This
was
also
reviewed
by
cprc.
They
found
it
to
be
complete,
thorough,
objective
and
fair,
and
the
commission
moved
this
investigation
forward
to
this
committee
by
a
5-0
vote
and
the
chief
of
police
also
found
the
officer's
actions
to
be
within
policy.
So
with
that,
are
there
any
questions
that
I
could
answer.
A
Seeing
no
questions
on
that
item
good
on
that
one.
Thank.
A
A
Here
at
items
for
communication
might
as
well
knock
out
the
last
item
for
communication
and
then
move
back
to
the
regular
order
of
business,
so
that
is
hs2.
I'm
not
sure
why
it's
an
item
for
communication,
but
we
can
communicate
chief
cook
yeah,
I
mean
chief
cook
chief
eddington
yeah,
he's
a
bit
more
tan.
F
Also
in
the
the
context
of
this
report
is
a
preamble,
the
officer
who's
con
preparing.
This
report
is
also
using
this
report
to
justify
or
to
lay
the
body
or
the
elements
of
the
crime
for
aggravated
battery
against
police.
I'm.
A
My
apologies,
we
are
on
items
for
communication,
distribution
of
the
portion
of
the
daily
crime
bulletin
that
includes
the
names
and
addresses
of
persons.
A
Oh,
you
went
out
to
get
the
information
yeah.
So
do
you
want
that
information?
Now
I
mean
yeah.
Well,
let's
start
with
councilmember
burns
who
wanted
an
update.
So
while
the
folks
are
still
here
and
there's
an
audience,
let's
maybe
work
on
the
fact
so
we're
going
back
to
the
discussion
during
public
comment
about
issues
that
took
place
at
the
margarita
inn
recently
and
there
were
some
assertions
made
both
in
public
comment
at
council
on
monday
and
then
again
here,
councilman
burns
was
seeking
clarification
about
the
facts
of
the
case.
F
F
In
summary,
while
in
full
uniform
responding
to
the
marguerite
inn
located
at
1566
oak
avenue
in
the
city
of
evanston
on
75-22
at
approximately
18
15
hours
in
reference
to
a
battery
that
occurred
there
upon
our
arrival,
a
white
male
yelled,
that's
him
pointing
at
a
male
black
standing
in
the
lobby
area.
I
spoke
to
the
male
black
who
identified
himself
after
he
identified
himself.
He
advised
he
and
the
white
male
were
in
a
physical
altercation
prior
to
our
arrival
and
one
of
the
white
male
arrested
for
striking
him.
F
The
white
male
identified
himself
to
officer
lang
who
was
also
on
scene
while
conducting
our
interviews.
The
first
individual
began
to
yell
at
us
in
aggressive
manner,
continue
to
yell
and
aggressively
point
a
at
officer
hicks
in
the
face
off
strix
advised
that
individual
that,
if
he
did
not
stop,
he
would
be
placed
in
handcuffs.
F
F
F
Officer
hicks
observed
that
the
first
taser
deployment
was
ineffective
and
deployed
a
second
round
which
was
effective.
I
then
placed
shelby
in
custody
without
further
incident.
Efd
arrived
on
the
scene
to
remove
the
prongs
from
the
individual
who
had
been
tased.
The
evidence
technicians
were
requested
and
recovered
the
taser
cartridges
and
photographed
the
scene.
F
F
I
reviewed
I
interviewed
the
second
individual
at
epd
and
he
advised
the
following
that
individual
identified
himself
as
a
service
manager
at
marguerite
inn
during
his
shift.
He
observed
the
other
individual
in
the
kitchen
touching
his
private
parts.
He
was
asked
that
individual
to
stop,
because
there
were
children
present
in
a
verbal
altercation
ensued
between
the
two
individuals
during
the
verbal
altercation.
F
The
service
manager
said
he
also
struck
back
in
self-defense.
The
service
manager
had
visible
redness
and
some
swelling
on
his
face
and
had
some
scratch
marks
on
his
neck.
The
service
manager
was
willing
to
pursue
charges
and
sign
a
complaint
for
battery.
However,
he
refused
medical
attention
and
advised
he
would
take
himself
to
the
hospital
later
time.
His
injuries
were
photographed
by
the
evidence
technician.
F
F
Felony
review
was
contacted
on
seven
six,
twenty
two
at
fifteen
hours
and
the
asa
approved
felony
charges
against
the
individual
for
aggravated
battery
to
police
officer.
This
concludes
the
report.
E
So
this
incident
started
in
a
kitchen.
There
did
I
get
that
right?
Yes,
sir,
and
then
the
service
manager
claims
that
he
went
up
to
this
person
and
said
there
are,
you
know,
stop
doing
this
thing
because
there
are
children
present
in
the
kitchen
or
just
in
the
hotel
or
the
margarita,
and,
generally
speaking,
I.
F
F
E
E
F
A
That
kind
of,
quite
literally
we're
going
to
talk
about
something
somewhere,
that
form
of
public
indecency
in
front
of
a
miner
would
be
a
felon
to
take
undergo
that
act
in
front
of
a
minor
would
be
a
felony
sex
crime.
F
I'm
not
sure
that
it
would
be
a
felony.
I
think
it
would
fall
in
a
category
of
criminal
sexual
abuse,
but.
A
F
A
A
Okay
with
that.
A
Are
you
interested
in?
I
don't
know
if
connections
the
folks
operators
have
anything,
maybe
that
you
all
know,
from
your
first
hand,
that
you
would
like
to
share
if
you,
based
on
your
knowledge,.
B
B
A
B
E
Just
play
it
back
that
again,
the
investigation
is
ongoing.
It
is
not
being
confirmed
that
there
was
a
child
either
in
the
kitchen
or
lobby
or
anywhere
in
the
same
room
as
this
activity.
The
investigation
is
ongoing
and
that
will
will
hopefully
we'll
have
more
information
soon
and
if
that
is
not
correct
chief,
please
correct
me,
but
is
that
correct?
E
A
Thank
you,
mr
pog.
Thank
you,
council
member
burns.
Okay.
This
brings
us
back
to
the
I'd
like
to
go
through
the
items
for
discussion
quickly.
I
think
the
plan
for
most
of
these
is
to
the
city
used
to
have,
or
actually
I
was
just
looking
this
up
their
day.
It
doesn't
seem
like
that
committee
was
ever
officially
dissolved
from
what
I
can
see
the
alternatives
to
arrest,
so
the
city
has
has,
or
had
an
alternative
to
arrest
committee
and
a
number
of
the
discussion
items
we're
planning
to
move
to
that
committee.
A
So
we'll
just
quickly
move
through
that
and
then
we'll
move
to
the
last
item
for
consideration,
and
so
that
would
be
item
hs
1
under
items
for
discussion
hs2
under
items
for
discussion.
A
I'd
like
to
move
those
two
items:
hs1
and
hs2,
ordinance,
5402,
0,
22
modifying
title
9,
chapter
5,
section,
18,
4,
resisting
or
interfering
with
police,
as
well
as
ordinance
55022,
deleting
title
9
chapter
5,
section,
14,
reckless
conduct
and
I'd
like
to
move
that
we
table
those
items
and
that
we
that
we
refer
those
items
to
the
alternatives
to
arrest
committee
is
what
I
would
like
to
do
so
moved
moved
by
councilmember
burns
second
seconded
by
council
member
harry
kardes,
but
before
we
do
that,
I
do
have
for
chief
cook
again.
A
I
don't
know
why.
I
said
that
chief
eddington,
quick
questions
on
on
these
items.
A
Hs2
and
also
for
our
legal
council-
sorry,
I
should
have
done
this
toward
the
beginning
of
the
meeting.
We
have
julie,
tappendorff
and
please
let
me
know
if
I'm
pronouncing
your
last
name
correctly.
Tapendor
for
tapping
dorth
dwarf
here
on
the
line
from
ansel
glink
and
she
is
filling
in
as
our
corporation
council.
So
hello,
julie,.
A
Okay,
so
starting
here,
chief
eddington,
I'm
looking
at
the
ordinance
55022
and
it
it
says
that
you
know
someone
may
not
throw
or
cast
any
stone.
A
Upon
any
or
missile
upon
any
building,
railroad
car
tree
or
other
public
or
private
property
one,
how
would
we
define
one
it's
been
termed
in
the
media,
as
rock
throwing
so
rocks
aren't
the
same
as
stones,
but
how
would
we
define
a
missile?
What
does
what
does
that
mean.
A
Yeah
and,
of
course,
yeah
yeah,
it
means
an
object,
that's
thrown
and
then
council
tappendorff,
would
you
would
you
agree
with
that?
That,
in
in
this
context,
we're
looking
at
55022,
which
is
title
line,
chapter
5,
section
14,
that
missile
would
mean
an
object
that
is
thrown.
K
Yes,
so
it
there's-
and
I
won't
say
it's
a
specific
legal
definition
of
missile,
but
it
has
been
used
in
a
more
generic
fashion,
not
as
a
rocket
or
some
explosive
but
sure
a
missile
being
something
that
is
some
sort
of
an
object
that
is
being
thrown
yeah.
A
And-
and
I
was
aware
that
it
was
not
a
missile
but
the
the
fact
that
it's
an
object
that
is
thrown,
I
have
in
my
hand
a
paper
ball,
and
I
just
threw
that
paper
ball
in
a
public
building
at
at
so
did
I
just
violate
that
ordinance?
Did
I
throw
a
missile
in
a
in
a
public
building
or
and
violate
this
ordinance.
F
I
I
don't
think
so
I
I
mean
you
know
we're
wordsmithing
this,
but
but
essentially
one
of
the
things
that
I
think
is
at
the
root
of
of
this
entire
series
of
ordinances
is:
are
the
police
over
policing
and
I
think
that
we.
G
A
Yeah,
I
I
do
want
to
just
get
there
and
and
I'm
wondering
council
tappendorff
again,
given
the
reading
of
this
ordinance
and
the
definition
in
the
way
you're
saying
that
missile
is
used.
You
know,
throwing
a
paper
ball
and
not
hurting
anyone
not
causing
any
damage.
Would
that
seemingly
violate
this
or
would
that
give
rise
for
someone
to
be
ticketed
or
arrested
under
this
ordinance.
K
In
my
experience,
it
would
be
highly
unlikely
that
that
certainly
is
up
to
police
discretion
on
on
what
they
charge
and
how
they
interpret
an
ordinance,
I'm
not
aware
of
of
any
sort
of
prosecution
or
charges
or
citations
for
throwing
something
that
wouldn't
create
any.
I
mean
any.
K
A
Yeah-
and
I
agree
that
that
is
the
intent,
and
that
is
why
I
brought
this
up.
So
it
seems
that
what
you're
saying
is
that
there
could
be
discretion,
that
an
officer
could
say
something
as
minor
as
throwing
a
paper
airplane
or
a
paper
ball
and
not
harming
a
single
person
or
even
a
small
little
pebble,
taking
it
and
skipping
it
across
the
lake.
Seemingly
without
creating
again,
our
ordinance
doesn't
say
that
there
must
be
criminal
damage.
A
It
does
not
say
that
you
know
there
must
be
either
property
damage
or
damage
or
harming
another
person.
It
seems
that
it's
very
loose
in
that
you
know
again
that
simply
throwing
a
paper
ball
or
a
paper
airplane
would
be
up
to
the
discretion
of
an
officer
whether
they
chose
to
arrest,
and
so
with
this
ordinance.
A
I'm
happy
not
to
delete
this,
but
to
make
it
mirror
state
law
to
make
sure
that
it
is
that
it's
actual
property
damage
that
we're
concerned
about
and
actual
physically
harming
someone
and
and
not
simply
casting
a
stone
or
missile
in
public,
and
so
that
that
is
what
I
am
seeking
to
do
here
with
this
ordinance
just
create
some
clarity.
Council
member
burns.
E
I
was
going
to
say
for
the
public
that
I
think
the
part
of
the
frustration
on
the
public
is
that
these
cleanup
type
legislation
and
ordinance
exercises
oftentimes
happen
with
very
little
media
attention,
and
I
think
the
reason
why
a
lot
of
these
measures
have
been
so
controversial
is
because
they've
been
covered
in
the
media
and
not
necessarily
covered
in
a
in
a
manner
that
pays
close
attention
to
the
details
of
the
measures,
and
so
I
just
want
to
apologize
for
that
that
this
can.
E
A
lot
of
this
has
risen
to
the
point
where
it
is
confusing
people
in
the
public
and
they're
concerned
and
worried,
and
it
is
not
supposed
to
unfold
in
this
manner.
These
type
of
cleanup
bills
are
supposed
to
be
very
routine
and
which
is
why
I
recommend
it
in
a
a
few
meetings
ago.
Not
this
the
human
services
committee,
but
another.
I
can't
remember
what
it
was.
It
was
a
council
council.
E
Refer
these
to
the
alternatives
to
a
rush
committee
which
chief
edinson
will
be
a
member
as
well
as
members
of
the
public
in
law
enforcement
and
other
important
areas
that
can
help
us
all
come
to
an
agreement
on
these
measures
so
that
once
they
get
to
council,
there's
already
consensus
and
support.
So.
But
thank
you
for
that.
Councilman,
reid
and.
A
I
just
want
to
give
credit
well,
you
did
recommend
that
previously,
but
also
recently,
today,
council
member
heterocotis
reached
out
and
also
echoed
that
idea,
echoed
your
your
your.
A
I
I
think
we're
in
agreement
here.
One
last
thing
just
for
clarity
to
the
public
is
again
folks
were
thinking
that
they
could
ride
around
throwing
rocks
if
this
ordinance
were
to
be
removed.
So
chief
eddington,
even
without
this
ordinance
right.
If
this
ordinance
did
not
exist
here-
and
I
not
I-
someone-
threw
a
rock
at
another
person
that
person
could
still
be
charged
with
assault,
correct
or
some
sub-state.
Some
appropriate
state
charges.
A
Yeah,
so
you
know
again.
E
That's
that's
important
for
the
public
to
understand
that,
just
because,
in
order
that
you
strike
an
ordinance
does
not
mean
there's
not,
you
know,
there's
not
a
there's,
not
a
another
ordinance
that
would
or
statute
that
would
address
that
particular
activity
or
crime.
And
so
that's
the
level
of
detail
that
I
think
has
been
lost
in
some
of
the
reporting
around
these
issues,
which
has
caused
a
lot
of
anxiousness
and
concern.
E
Rightfully
so
so
again,
I
want
to
apologize
for
the
way
it's
been
reported
by
the
by
some
of
our
media
and
encourage
people
to
reach
out
to
your
older
person,
not
just
councilman
reid,
but
myself
use
us
as
a
resource
to
gain
greater
clarification
on
some
of
the
measures
that
you
see
coming
forward.
A
Thank
you.
Is
there
any
further
discussion
on
this,
so
the
motion
is
to
refer
this
to
the
first
meeting
of
the
alternatives
to
arrest
committee
as
either
it
is
reestablished
or
just
con,
as
is
reestablished.
So
there's
been
a
motion
and
a
second
all,
those
in
favor
say
hi,
all
those
opposed
any
abstentions,
so
that
is
hs1
and
under
items
for
discussion.
A
A
A
Hs3
under
items
for
discussion:
yes,
so
may
it
happen.
E
So
I'll
just
move
move.
I
move
item
hs3
under
discussion,
ordinance,
56022,
removing
title
9
chapter
5,
section,
18-1,
obedience
to
police
and
public
places.
A
Thank
you.
Is
there
a
second,
I
will
second
it.
So
this
ordinance
is
an
ordinance
that
makes
it
unlawful
to
disobey
police
in
a
public
place
it.
A
Our
ordinance,
fails
to
have
a
key
word
in
it,
which
is
in
state
law,
which
is
the
lawful
order
of
a
police
officer,
and
I
think,
because
that
key
word
lawful,
is
missing
in
this
ordinance.
I
think
we
need
to
either
you
know
again
what
I
what
I
do
agree
with
now
that
we
have
approached
this.
A
You
know
my
original
lens
with
this
was
to
get
rid
of
laws
that
I
saw,
as
you
know,
not
working
well
here
or
either
unconstitutional,
or
you
know,
a
whole
host
of
things
and
creating
negative
opportunities
for
negative
interactions,
with
police
and
and
unnecessary
negative
interactions
with
our
law
enforcement,
and
I
can
point
to
in
the
last
seven
years,
two
high-profile
cases
where
this
single
ordinance
in
particular
was
grossly
misused.
A
A
Lawrence
crosby,
who
is
a
northwestern
student
engineering
phd,
was
arrested
for
stealing
quote
unquote
what
turned
out
to
be
his
own
car
and
was
charged
with
obedience
to
police
in
a
public
place,
and
mr
crosby
did
not
come
to
administrative
hearings.
Mr
cosby
had
a
case
at
the
skokie
courthouse
and
the
city
ended
up
paying
out
over
1.3
million
dollars
or
1.2
1.2
1.3
million
dollars
to
mr
crosby
and
the
you
know,
I
think,
there's
some
confusion
in
the
community
that
the
that
the
the
large
dollar
amount
was,
for.
A
You
know
they're
in
the
video.
It
is
shown
that
an
officer
strikes
mr
cosby,
but
that
is
not
why
mr
crosby
received
one
point
two
or
three
million
dollars
why
the
taxpayers
of
evanston
had
to
fork
over
one
point
two
or
three
million
dollars.
It
was
because
of
malicious,
malicious
prosecution
as
well.
A
As
you
know,
his
understanding,
the
city
had
tarnished
his
name
with
that
prosecution
with
making
the
case
even
more
public,
and
so
again
this
is
an
ordinance
that
has
cost
the
city
over
a
million
dollars,
and
it
has
put
us
at
risk
one
of
the
things
that
was
mentioned
at
the
last
meeting
as
to
why
this
ordinance
was
useful
is
because
it
creates
alternative
avenues
to
arrest
using
our
local
adjudication
administrative
adjudication
system.
A
You
shared
data
as
a
as
a
coming
out
of
a
request
of
that
meeting
was
for
additional
data
on
this,
and
you
shared
data
on
this,
and
I
believe
the
data
showed
that
there
were
roughly
20
somewhat
22
yeah.
That's
what
I
thought:
22
arrests
or
citations
for
for
this
ordinance
and
when
analyzing
those
can
you
quickly
run
through
the
disposition
of
those
cases.
A
F
Thank
you
not
guilty
to
fine
two
sold
six
supervision.
Two
ex
parte
two
pending
four
expunged,
two
dismissed
two:
what
is
slo.
A
Stricken
without
leave
or
is
I'm
sorry,
does
that
correct,
yeah?
Okay,
so-
and
you
went
through
that-
all
right,
I
shouldn't
have
said
quickly,
can
you
repeat
that
one
more
time
certainly.
A
From
2017
to
now,
so
that's
the
time
frame
we're
talking
about
which
that
time
frame
does
not
include
mr
crosby.
It
would,
I
think,
include
my
arrest
because
that,
oh
no
it
wouldn't
it,
in
fact,
it
wouldn't
even
include
my
arrest
in
2016
for
obedience
to
police
in
a
public
place.
So
with
this,
so
you
went
through
a
number
of
various
dispositions.
A
They
were,
you
know
like
two
that
were
found
not
guilty.
There
were
six
that
were
dismissed,
sol
stricken
without
leave,
and
then
there
are
a
number
of
other
dispositions.
How
many
folks
were
actually
found
guilty
of
this.
F
F
I
have
a
specific
planning
guilty.
I
ic4
because
of
the
that
includes
the
two
expungements,
but
I
think
that
once
we
begin
to
delve
into
this
and
peel
back
the
layers
of
the
onion
it,
these
are
often
fellow
traveler
cases
where
there's
an
arrangement
made
a
package
deal
if
you
will
to
come
to
a
resolution
and
so
to
say
specifically
what
happened
with
these.
I'm
not
sure
that's
a
clear
picture,
because
there's
usually
other
events
going
on
other
charges
that
go
with
this,
but.
A
Usually
yeah
yeah,
so
four
out
of
the
22
were
actually
found
guilty.
So
that's
you
know,
I'm
not
a!
I
wish
our
mayor
was
here
and
could
give
us
a
percentage,
but
that's
a
fairly
low
percentage.
That's
you
know
not
even
20
yeah
yeah.
Thank
you
yeah
yeah,
so
you
said:
thirteen
percent
eighteen
percent
yeah,
that's
sort
of
figured
so
eight
we're
somewhere
close
to
that.
A
So
that's
a
18
success
rate
which
actually
put
that
another
way
that
is
an
82
percent
failure
rate
in
some
way
or
or
loss
rate
and
then
of
those
22
cases
how
many
of
those
obedience
to
police
in
a
public
place.
How
many
of
those
were?
A
So
again,
and
so
four
out
of
the
22
were
success,
successfully,
prosecuted
and
five
out
of
the
two.
You
know
again,
a
rough
a
little
over
twenty
percent
in
this
case
were
found
where
this
was
the
sole
charge,
and
that
means
that,
and
can
you
maybe
walk
through
why
someone
be
would
be
only
charged
with
this
ordinance?
You
know
if
they.
F
Sure
there,
first
of
all,
I'm
I'm
not
agreeing
with
your
math
analysis
of
this
because,
as
I
said
earlier,
as
they
are
combined
with
other
charges,.
A
F
A
The
the
question
was:
can
you
maybe
walk
through
why
someone
would
be
charged
only
with
this.
F
Ordinance
we're
arresting
somebody
we
say
get
out
of
the
way
get
out
of
the
way
you
don't
get
out
of
the
way
that
that's
an
example
of
what
this
would
be
used
for,
if,
if
you're
interfering
in
in
what
we're
attempting
to
accomplish,
but.
A
Do
we
not
so
we
have
another
ordinance
resisting
or
interfering
with
police?
Could
they
be
charged
with
that?
Probably
so,
then,
what
so,
so
that
handles
the
scenario
you
just
gave.
So
maybe
can
you
give
another
scenario
where
this
would
be
the
only
charge
that
someone
would
receive.
A
If
this
is
not
on
the
agenda
but
I've
as
going
through
the
criminal
code,
we
also
have
an
ordinance
on
the
books
about
dispersing
a
crowd
in
in
crowd
control.
Is
that
your
recollection.
A
It's
there,
so
maybe
can
we
give
another
example
that
is
not
already
covered
by
an
ordinance.
F
A
Do
you
think,
and
but
certainly
if
an
officer
were
to
say
hey,
you
know
to
want
to
disperse
a
crowd
that
would
be
a
lawful
order,
correct.
F
F
Sure,
and-
and
I
think
that
I
would
default
to
our
experience
with
the
burglary
tool
discussion-
that
after
we
had
a
discussion
and
both
sides
came
to
realize
what
the
other
one
was
talking
about.
We
came
up
with
a
solution,
and
so
I
I
think
that
adding
that
to
mirror
the
state
law
is
is
a
perfect
solution
to
your
concerns.
A
And
thank
you
and,
and
then
also
do
you
believe
that.
A
If
this
ordinance
did
not
exist,
could
you
still
ensure
you
know
the
things
you
rate
that
that
folks
are
following
lawful,
I'm
sorry,
here's
what
I
was
going
to
ask.
I
was
trying
to
stall
until
my
brain
clicked
back
in
again,
and
it
did
so.
What
I
was
going
to
ask
there
is:
do
you
think
that
someone
should
be
that
it
makes
sense
for
someone
to
be
arrested
solely
for
this
ordinance
violation.
F
A
And
I
have
one
last
question
then
I'll
rest
and
go
to
council
member
burns.
Do
you
would
you
be
satisfied
one
so
you've
said
that
adding
the
word
lawful,
you
think
is,
is
fine,
a
lawful
order
and
would
help
clarify
this.
Do
you
think
it
makes
sense
that
you
know
this
would
just
be
a
ticketable
offense
and
someone
wouldn't
be
arrested
necessarily
for
for
this
and
again
keeping
in
mind
that
there
is
an
ordinance
about
resist
about
resisting
interfering
and
crowd
control
and
all
that
other
stuff?
A
Do
you
think
that
that
that
one
that
it
would
be
fine
for
this
to
be
a
tickable
offense
and
a
non-arrestable
offense.
F
I
I
think,
adding
the
ticketable
option.
It
should
should
remain
an
option.
However,
one
of
the
things
that
I've
asked
my
staff
to
work
on
is
a
flowchart
of
how
this
how
this
really
goes,
because
one
of
the
things
that
we
we
may
decide
to
issue
you
a
ticket,
it
may
take
us
15
or
20
minutes
of
figuring
out
what
happened
to
get
there,
but
but
that
that's
an
outcome,
but
it's
not
going
to
be
like
a
speeding
ticket
where
we
walk
up
to
the
car.
F
Everybody
knows
what's
going
to
happen,
we're
going
to
the
ticket's
going
to
get
issued,
but
we're
going
to
post
the
bond.
We're
done,
we'll
sign
for
the
ticket
we're
gone
there.
These
may
take
a
little
more
research
in
consultation
with
a
supervisor
consultation
with
other
senior
officers,
so
it
it
may
not
be
as
as
quick
as
I'm
going
to
get
out
my
ticket
book
and
start
writing,
and
so
I
I
went
so
you're.
A
A
And
council
member
burns.
E
E
We
can
add
really
simply
by
adding
this
word,
provide
better
clarification
that
can
help
prevent.
E
I
think
what
we
saw
before
in
other
instances
that
you
provided
examples
for
where,
if
in
the
moment
you
know
later
on
in
the
the
encounter
our
police
officers
determined
that
hey
what
we
thought
happened
due
to
you
know
in
the
in
one
of
the
examples
you
gave
there
was
you
know,
a
witness
that
thought
they
saw
something,
and
so
it
allows
our
officers
to
get
that
inform
new
information
as
things
develop
and
to
make
decisions
based
on
that
new
information
and
to
not
move
forward
with
with
charges.
E
It
is
determined
that
some
of
the
previous
commands
were
were
unlawful,
and
so
I
think,
adding
lawful
in
makes
a
lot
of
sense
for
me,
based
on
my
current
understanding.
So
I'm
happy
to
move
this
forward.
A
Yeah
great
and
then
lastly,
last
question
chief
cook
for
me:
do
you
believe
I
don't
know
why
I'm
stuck
on
saying
that
chiefs.
A
Yeah,
it's
okay!
I'm
sorry!
Do
you
believe
that
it
would
be
also
sensible
that
again,
since
it
has
to
be
a
lawful
order-
and
it
almost
requires
that
someone
is
breaking
a
law
in
order
to
disobey
police
in
a
public
place?
Do
you
think
it
makes
sense
to
ensure
that
this
cannot
be
charged
in
and
of
itself,
that
there
must
be?
You
know
in
order
to
disobey
law
florida,
you
have
to
be
breaking
the
law
so.
F
I
would
have
to
give
that
some
thought,
sir,
and
I
think
I
would
probably
avail
myself
to
corporation
council
to
parse
that
out
yeah,
but
because
I
think
that
the
the
issuance
of
a
lawful
order
there
there's
some
some
event
happening.
This
may
be
the
this
may
be
the
only
thing
you
didn't
hey
it's
time
to
leave.
Please
leave
you
got
to
go,
please
leave
and,
and
now
we're
up
to
you
haven't
complied
I'm.
F
A
And
so
I
think
I
think
I
think
you're
right.
We
should
have
corporation
council
look
at
this
and
parse
it
out.
I
don't
I'm
not
saying
this
without
most
confidence,
but
I
also
believe
that
under
state
code
there
is
you
know
that,
would
I
think,
there's
some
law
and
some
guidance
saying
you
know
if
there's
a
fire
going
on
you're,
not
to
stand.
You
know
right
near
the
fire
and
you're
supposed
to
listen
to.
I
think
firefighters
also
have
a
similar
ability.
A
So
I
think
it
does
almost
require
that
you're
breaking
the
law
already
in
order
for
an
officer
to
give
you
a
lawful
order,
but
we
can
parse
that
out
with
legal,
I
would
love
to
entertain
a
motion
to
unstrike
this
language
and
and
insert
the
word
a
lawful,
lawful.
After
order.
I
Sure
would
be
a
friendly
amendment
to
unstrike,
or
how
do
we
do
this.
A
We
can,
I
guess
we
can
do
it.
I
would
if
we
can
just
move
motion
to
unstrike
and
add
the
word
lawful.
After
order.
A
A
I
do
see
that
it
was
appeared
on
the
agenda
for
discussion,
but
this
is
the
only
item
that
I
think
I'd
like
to
move
forward
for
discussion.
It
does
say:
councilmember
reed,
requests
that
human
services
committee
consider
forwarding
the
foregoing
item
to
city
council
for
consideration,
and
so
I
think
the
public
was
aware
that
we
would
be
considering
forwarding
this,
and
there
will
still
be
several
opportunities
at
council
for
folks
to
weigh
in
on
this
particular
item.
A
So
with
that
I'll
take
all
those
in
favor
of
moving
this
forward
to
council,
say
aye
aye
the
eyes
have
it,
and
this
will
appear
on
the
council
agenda.
Okay,
that
brings
us.
We
have
two
items
left
on
the
agenda
and
that
would
be
hs3,
which
is
ordinance
57022,
title
9
chapter
5,
section
11,
public
nudity,
urinating
and
defecating
in
public.
E
Second,
I
guess
I'm
hesitating
because
I
know
it.
I
don't
know
if
it
applies
to
the
standing
communities
council,
but
the
chair
can
move,
you
can
second,
but
you
can't
move
things
in
one
of
those.
I
know
for
now.
E
Where
are
we
at
so
moves?
I
think
you
already
said
well.
A
Yeah
is
there
a
second
I'll?
Second
it?
I
second
that
so
this
is
ordinance
57022
title
9
chapter
5,
section
11,
public
nudity,
urinating
and
defecating
in
public.
We
have
our
interim
corporation
council
from
ansel
glink
here,
and
so
this
is
an
ordinance
that
you
know
I,
as
I
was
doing,
a
review
of
our
code
in
line
with
many
of
the
things
that
we
discussed
tonight
and
items
that
will
appear
on
the
agenda
on
august
1st.
A
You
know
I
I
looked
at
this
ordinance
regarding
public
nudity
and
all
of
it
made
sense,
except
for
one
provision
that
specifically
regulated
female
the
female
body
in
a
way
that
our
code
did
does
not
regulate
the
male
body
and
particularly
as
we
as
society
is
evolving
and
understanding
the
equality
between
men
and
women
and
the
bodily
autonomy
that
women
have
not
been
able
to
exercise
historically
and
especially
as
our
community
is,
or
as
our
both
our
community
and
our
society
is
more
deeply
understanding
the
rights
of
folks
who
are
in
the
lgbtq
community,
particularly
trans
folks,
who
have
various
gender
identities.
A
I
think
that
this
ordinance
is
written
in
a
very
loose
way
and
does
not
adequately
cover
what
we,
I
think,
really
want
to
cover
and
I'll
note
that
you
know
evanston
of
the
north
shore
communities
is
one
of
the
few
north
shore
is
I'll
name
off
a
list
of
north
shore,
communities
that
do
not
regulate
the
adult
female
body
in
the
way
that
we
do
and
evanston
has
been
a
leader
on
on
a
number
of
issues,
and
I
think
it's
time
for
us
to
continue
being
a
leader
or,
and
in
this
case
not
even
be
a
leader
but
be
a
follower
and
align
with
our
neighbors
like
skokie,
who
does
not
have
a
toplessness
ordinance,
and
you
know,
skokie
does
not
have
the
issues
that
folks
or
may
be
concerned
about,
and
you
know
there's,
unfortunately,
because
of
a
local
blog
evanston.
A
Now
there
has
been
a
warping
and
distortion
of
what
this
is
about
to
lead
people.
To
believe
that
this
is
about
topless
beaches.
The
headline
read:
reads:
topless
beach
proposal.
Nowhere
was
anything
about
beaches
mentioned
nowhere.
A
You
know
have
I
prior
to
that
thought
about
that,
and,
and
just
with
that
idea
you
know,
wilmette
is
a
north
shore.
Community
on
the
lakefront
wilmette
does
not
have
a
toplessness
ordinance
and
there
are
not
topless
beaches
in
wilmette.
Winnetka
is
a
lakefront
community,
just
like
evanston
and
they
have
beaches.
Winneca
does
not
have
a
topless
ordinance
and
there
are
not
topless
beaches.
E
Point
of
privilege
sure,
second,
the
discussion:
what
about
the
park?
Districts
and.
A
The
park
districts
and
in
those
communities
do
not
as
well
I've
looked
up,
wilmette,
waneka
and
many
of
those
communities.
The
park
district
also
does
not
have
a
toplessness
ordinance
in
in
those
communities
that
I've
verified
and
again
this
ordinance
does
not
just
apply
to
beaches.
This
ordinance
applies
to
our
entire
community,
and
so
I
think
that
is
an
important
fact
here.
A
So
with
that,
our
law.
So
with
that,
our
in
illinois,
the
article
1
section
18
of
the
illinois
constitution,
says
that
you
cannot
discriminate
on
the
basis
of
sex
and
it
specifically
says
that
the
state
and
its
local
units
of
government,
including
park
districts,
do
not
have,
and
school
districts
do
not
have
the
ability
to
discriminate
on
the
basis
of
sex.
A
There
has
been.
You
know.
I
received
an
email
earlier
from
our
interim
corporation
council,
going
through
a
few
cases
in
other
states,
because
you
know
what
we're
looking
at
here
is.
You
know:
do
we
think
this
ordinance
stands
up
to
constitutional
muster
and
our
corporation
council
julie
tappendorf
has
sent
a
few
cases
over
I?
A
E
Just
if
you
can
just
for
the
sake
of
time,
if
you
can
frame
this,
as
my
understanding
is
that
council
price
council
dirk
price
in
a
kind
of
one-on-one
discussion,
either
through
email
or
in
person,
felt
like.
If
this
were
challenged,
it
would
be
challenged
under
strict
scrutiny.
E
I
believe
council,
mr
tapendorf
council
taffendorf,
is
of
the
opinion
that
it
would
be
rational
basis,
and-
and
so
I
just
wanted
council
tappendorff
to
know
that,
because,
if
there's
a
better
venue
to
sort
this
out
than
today,
I
would
like
to
do
that
for
the
sake
of
time.
E
But
again
I
just
mainly
wanted
council
tapendorf
to
know
that
so
again,
if,
if
you
want
to
decide
to
discuss
this
with
council
in
in
you
know,
collaboration
with
council
price
first
so
that
it
could
be
sorted
out
and
then
we
could
be
provided
one
kind
of
single
opinion
from
anselmiglink.
I
think
that
is
what
I
would
prefer,
but
just
wanted
to
get
that
on
the
record.
Thank
you.
K
So
I'm
happy
to
jump
in
here.
I
I
have
spoken
to
dirk
price
about
this
issue
and,
and
he
had
not
he-
he
had
looked
at
this
only
through
the
scope
of
the
the
memo
that
was
provided.
The
report
that
was
provided
to
you
that
had
your
former
corporation
counsel's
advice,
he
had
not
performed
the
research
in
the
case
law
research.
He
asked
that
I
do
that.
So
I
I
in
talking
to
him
he
did.
K
As
far
as
I
know,
and
in
my
conversations
with
him,
which
was
this
morning,
he
had
not
provided
an
opinion
that
this
would
be
subject
to
strict
scrutiny.
We
understood
that
that
was
that
was
it
shares
opinion
and
that
that's
why
the
the
issue
was
raised
in
the
first
place
that
there
was
a
concern.
K
So
you
know
I
can
provide
a
little
background
on
the
the
legal
construct
of
this
there's.
A
seventh
circuit
court
of
appeals
case
that
is
within
our
circuit,
so
within
illinois
circuit
that
analyzed
chicago's
public
nudity
ordinance,
which
has
similar
provisions
about
women
and
and
covering
the
breast
area
very
similar
to
evanston's
ordinance,
and
that
was
challenged
under
the
u.s
constitution
and
it
was
upheld
under
intermediate
scrutiny.
A
If
I
may
interrupt
there,
just
a
point
of
information,
the
u.s
constitution
does
not
have
an
equal
rights
amendment
similar
to
the
state
of
illinois.
Is
that
correct,
correct
and.
K
That,
and
that
is
where
I'm
going
so,
if
I,
if,
if
you
don't
mind,
if
I
finish
and
then
I'm
happy
to
take
questions
that
way,
at
least
we
have
you
have
my
opinion,
which
is
consistent
with
your
with
the
opinion
in
the
report,
which
I
I
believe
came
from,
one
of
your
city
attorneys.
So,
first
under
the
u.s
constitution,
intermediate
scrutiny
has
applied
and
it
supplies
across
the
country,
including
in
the
7th
circuit,
which
is
evanston
circuit.
K
The
question
that
has
been
raised
since
that
advice
was
provided
is
how
does
the
state
of
illinois
equal
rights
amendment
change
if
at
all
the
scrutiny
that
would
be
applied
to
an
ordinance
like
evanston's
or
chicago's
or
any
other
illinois
state
and
as
your
form
as
your
city
attorney
opined
in
their
memo?
There
are
no
cases
on
public
nudity
ordinances
that
apply
the
state
illinois
state
constitution.
K
K
I
did
not
find,
and
it
doesn't
mean
it
doesn't
exist,
but
I
did
a
pretty
exhaustive
search.
I
did
not
find
an
ordinance,
as
I
said
there
isn't
one
in
illinois,
but
in
any
other
state,
applying
a
state
constitutional,
equal
rights
provision
to
a
public
nudity
ordinance
that
applied
strict
scrutiny.
What
would
an
illinois
court
do?
K
What
we
have
so
far
are
illinois
decisions
that
analyze
this
under
the
federal
constitution,
and
I
think,
with
respect
to
what
your
city
attorney
opined
that
they
felt
comfortable
that
that
the
city
could
defend
this
ordinance,
and
I
agree
with
that.
I
think
that
there
are
very
many
arguments
to
to
look
at
other
states
where
there
isn't
a
case
here
to
look
at
other
states
and
see
how
those
states
have
analyzed
similar
ordinances
with
similar
state
constitutions.
K
K
But
if,
if
you're
asking
about
the
defensibility
of
your
ordinance,
I
would
say
there
are
good
defenses,
both
under
the
u.s
constitution
and
the
illinois
constitution.
With
respect
to
the
policy
nature
of
making
a
change.
Obviously
that's
up
to
you
in
making
a
recommendation
and
up
to
the
city
council,
but
as
to
the
legality.
I
think
that
there
is
sufficient
legal,
whether
it's
precedent
or
persuasive
authority,
to
defend
your
current
ordinance.
A
E
Yeah,
that's
fine.
I
just
I
would
ask
the
chair
that
that
we
we
be
brief
with
the
quest
questions
for
this
evening
around
this
issue.
I
would,
I
think
we
should
likely
table
this.
It
still
needs
more
time.
We
need
to
consider
it,
I'm
not
sure
exactly
when
I
would
like
to
preview.
I
did
not
have
an
opportunity
to
review
all
of
the
the
the
information
that
were
provided
by
council
tappendorff.
E
I
also
want
to
correct
my
state
previous
statement
that
I
may
have
characterized
what
council
price
provided
as
an
opinion.
It
was
more
so
a
comment.
It
was
a
comment
provided
in
response
as
a
response
to
a
question
that
councilman
reid
asked,
and
I
think
in
a
private
conversation,
I'm
happy
to
know
that
there
has
been
coordination
between
you
and
council
price
and
that
research
has
been
done.
I
would
like
time
to
review
it
again.
Don't
think
this
is
the
venue
to
have
a
full
out
debate
on
it
now.
E
So,
if
we
can
keep
the
the
comments
short
you
know,
and
and
so
we
have
time
to
review
this,
thank
you.
A
See
appropriate?
Okay,
thank
you!
So
when
I
so
I
wanna
go
to
some
of
the
things
you
said.
Have
you
found
cases
where,
because
you
mentioned
a
lot
of
cases
and
where
this
was
potentially
a
similar
ordinance
was
over
overturned?
Have
you
found
cases
where
this
similar
ordinance?
I'm
sorry
was
upheld?
My
apologies
where
a
similar
ordinance
was
upheld.
Have
you
found
examples
where
this
was
overturned.
K
I
think
there
I
believe
there
may
be
a
federal
case
out
of
colorado.
It's
it's
just
one
sort
of
isolated
case.
I
don't
believe
it
was
under
a
state
constitution,
analysis.
It
may
have
been
under
a
federal
constitution.
I'm
not
really
sure
if
the.
If
the
language
of
the
of
the
particular
ordinance
that
was
being
challenged
was
exactly
the
same.
Yes,.
H
K
Are
dozens
of
cases
that
have
upheld
similar
ordinances,
I
believe
there's
one
out
of
it
might
have
been
fort
collins,
so
it
might
about
out
of
colorado.
A
Yes,
there
so
there's
the
fort
collins
case
out
of
colorado.
Yes,
that
used
intermediate
scrutiny
and
upheld
this
also
in
illinois.
How
are
sex-based
discrimination
cases?
What
level
of
scrutiny
are
they
often
decided
under.
A
I'm
sorry,
let
me
rephrase
that
question.
Let
me
actually
rephrase
that
question
specifically
cases
that
have
brought
up
article
1,
section
18
of
the
illinois
constitution
in
illinois.
How
have
those
cases
that
have
utilized
that
particular
section
of
our
constitution?
How
those
cases,
what
level
of
scrutiny
have
those
cases
used.
K
It
depends
on
first,
the
initial
inquiry
of
the
court
to
determine
whether
there
is
any
unequal
treatment
if
it's
determined
that
there
is
unequal
treatment.
That
is
not
justified
in
some
way,
and
this
is
the
cases
that
I
sent
you
sort
of
go
through
that
analysis.
It's
very
similar
in
these
other
states
if
there
is
determined
to
be
unequal
treatment
without
any
basis.
For
that,
then
it's
subject
to
strict
scrutiny.
The
cases
that
I
sent
to
you
look
at
that
initial
issue.
A
So
you
sent
five
cases
so
they're
state
v,
lilly-
that
was
the
first
one,
and
that
was
out
of
the
state
v
lilly
was
out
of
kansas
and
did
that
have
to
do
with?
Did
that
case
have
to
do
with
an
ordinance
similar
to
ours,
or
was
that
just
generally
about
public
nudity?.
K
I'd
have
to
look.
I've
got
all
five
cases
sort
of
strewn
on
my
desk,
but
I
can
take
notes,
and
since
this
is
coming
back,
yeah.
K
Be
as
as
I
think
it
was,
was
it
council
member
burns
who
stated
that
if
it
that
this
may
not
be
the
venue
to
do
sort
of
a
legal
analysis?
But
if
there
are
questions-
and
you
want
maybe
a
little
more
than
just
the
cases
like,
we
can
provide
a
memo.
A
Okay,
yeah,
so
I
I
would,
I
would
love
to
I
mean
I
I
did.
I
was
able
to
quickly
peek
at
that
one.
It
doesn't
seem
like
that.
One
necessarily
fits,
but
it
does
seem
like
some
of
them
do.
There's
seattle
v,
buchanan
that
you
mentioned
so
I'd
love
an
analysis
of
that
there's
the
city
of
albuquerque
vsax
that
you
mentioned
that
that
one
seems
to
apply
and
potentially
city
of
albuquerque
v
sacks
as
well.
A
I'm
sorry
I
named
that
twice
so
there
there
are
a
few
of
the
cases
that
you
sent
that
seem
to
apply
so
I'd
love
an
analysis
there,
and
particularly
I'd
love,
an
analysis
of
how
specifically
cases
that
have
used
article
1,
section
18
how
what
level
of
scrutiny
they've
been
decided
under,
and
I
I
just
also
am
curious.
You
said
that
you
believe
this
case
is
defensible,
and
so,
if
you've
come
to
that
conclusion,
I'm
just
curious
how
to
come.
To
that
conclusion.
We'd
have
to
say
right.
A
I
think
the
first
level
that
you
said
is
you
know
whether
there
is,
if
you
want
to
repeat
it.
K
K
They
are
not
good
lawyers,
so
what
I'm
telling?
What
I'm
saying
is
that
the
ordinance
is
defensible
and
what
that
means
is
that
the
city
has
available
defenses
under
the
law
that
it
can
make
in
court
to
defend
against
a
challenge
so
whether
that
is
that
it's
a
rational
basis
test
or
it's
an
intermediate
scrutiny
test
that
there
are
bases
for
defending
this.
K
This
ordinance
and
the
the
distinction-
and
so
much
of
this
is
spelled
out
in
the
in
these
cases-
that
I
sent
the
way
the
courts
look
at
the
distinction
between
how
the
ordinance
treats
men
and
women
that
this
is
not
a
a
on
its
face:
discrimination
against
women.
It
is
a
not
expression
or
speech,
but
it
is
a
a
public
nudity
conduct
ordinance.
K
It
is
it
so,
if
there's
a
basis
for
that-
and
I
think
that's
where
it
gets
so
much
into
the
legal
argument,
so
I
think
it's
the
defensible.
Is
it
a
100
win?
No
lawyer
should
tell
you
that,
but
I
think
that
there
are.
There
are
defenses
to
this,
based
on
the
on
the
case
law,
both
in
the
seventh
circuit
on
the
federal
side
and
in
some
of
the
other
cases
that
that
I
sent
to
you
on
the
state
side.
A
I
I
would,
I
would
love
particularly
an
analysis
of
how
the
city
might
defend
this,
and
thank
you
for
that
now
miss
tappendorf.
A
I
will
continue
on
and
just
say
that
when
reading
the
fort
collins
case,
which
went
to
the
court
of
appeals
in
the
10th
sub
in
the
10th
circuit
in
2019,
the
judge
who
decided
the
the
panel
of
judges
who
decided
the
case,
who
happened
to
be
obama
appointees
and
not
trump
or
reagan
or
whatever
appointees
said
one
of
the
most
important
purposes
to
be
served
by
the
equal
and
so
what
they
say.
Is
that
often
the
defenses
for
these
kinds
of
ordinances-
and
it
was
raised
here
on
this
diocese?
A
The
last
time
we
were
here
is
an
objection
about.
A
I
will
here
I'm
citing
from
the
case
reading
from
the
case
for
one
thing
in
asserting
that
it's
that
a
female,
only
toplessness
ban
substantially
furthers
governmental
objectives.
The
city
mostly
relies
on
cases
holding
that
nebulous
concepts
of
public
morality,
not
traffic
safety
or
public
order
justify
similar
bans
in
one
of
those
cases.
A
For
example,
the
fourth
circuit
tied
a
public
nudity
ordinance
like
the
cities
in
in
the
in
the
case
that
I'm
discussing
the
fort
collins
case
to
a
widely
recognized
governmental
interest
in
protecting
the
moral
sensibilities
of
the
of
that
substantial
segment
of
that
substantial
segment
of
society.
That
still
does
not
want
to
be
exposed
willy-nilly
into
public
displays
of
various
portions
of
their
fee
of
their
fellow
citizens.
A
A
A
A
female
only
toplessness
band
strikes
us
as
an
unnecessary,
unnecessary
and
overbroad
means
to
maintain
public
order
and
to
promote
traffic
safety
when
more,
when
more
accurate
and
impartial
lines
can
be
drawn
striking
down
a
and
so
what
is
at
stake
here
is
how
do
we
define
female
breast
and
and
if
you
want
to
go
to
the
textbook
and
I'll
I'll,
ask
you
this?
A
E
I'd
like
to
jump
in
hold
on.
A
K
Yeah,
so
there
are
many
cases
that
look
at
this,
because
this
has
been
litigated
across
the
country
for
decades
in
connection
with
with
sexually
oriented
businesses
or
adult
uses.
So
this
isn't
something
that
we
pull
out
of
a
hat
whenever
you're
you're
defending
in
court,
you
look
at
precedence,
so
you
look
at
cases.
There
are
numerous
cases
all
the
way
up
to
the
u.s
supreme
court
that
interpret
and-
and
you
certainly
looking
at
a
say,
a
topless
ban
at
an
adult
use
say
a
strip
joint.
K
The
definition
shouldn't
be
any
different
than
in
a
public
nudity
ordinance
that
shouldn't
be
any
different
to
any
other
ordinance.
That's
interpreted
there,
there's
as
with
many
words
like
the
word
missile,
which
we
talked
about
before,
there's
there's
just
a
basis
in
the
law
for
these.
So
we
would
look
if
we
didn't
find
something
in
the
code.
If
the
code
itself
didn't
define
it,
then
you
look
at
dictionaries
and
then
you
look
at
how
the
courts
have
defined
it.
So
do
I
have
a
definition
for
you
right
now.
A
And
that's
actually
something
I'd
love
to
see
researched
and-
and
I
think
that's
actually
to
me-
that
is
one
of
the
most
critical
questions-
how
we
define
what
a
female
breast
is,
because,
if
we're
going
to
say
that
this
law
is
not
arbitrary
and
what
the
other,
and
particularly
what
this
court
has
said,
there
are
many
you
know
breasts
that
resemble
female
breasts.
There
are
men,
you
know
many
of
the
cases
I
would
say
have
been
decided
woefully
in
wrong
and
just
like
many
of
us
would
say.
A
Yes,
it
is
the
precedent
of
the
supreme
court
now
that
women
do
not
have
bodily
autonomy
and
that
certain
states
can
create
laws
that
would
limit
their
right
to
abortion
and
we'd,
say
that's
wrong,
and
here
in
our
community
we
can
make
or
in
our
state
we
make
laws
that
go,
go
against
the
supreme
court's
inaccurate
reading
of
of
the
statute,
but
I
would
say
when
you
it's
quite
simple:
when
you
look
it
up,
the
definition
of
a
female
breast
is
a
breast
that
has
mammary
glands.
A
I
don't
know
if
there
are
cases
that
define
it
in
any
other
way,
and
so
I'd
love
for
you
to
look
into
this
and
see
whether
or
not
there
are
alternative
cases
that
somehow
define
female
breast
as
something
other
than
breasts
that
have
mammary
glands
and
if
we're
saying
that
what
we
are
trying
to
control
is
breasts
that
have
mammary
glands
in
public
and
not
just
breasts
that
present
as
female
breast,
and
that
would
mean
that
someone
who
is
a
trans
woman
would
be
allowed
to
go
topless
in
our
community
and
because
those
breasts
happen
to
not
have
mammary
glands.
A
That
would
mean
you
know,
and
if
and
if
if
we
are
to
say
that
that
trans
woman
is
could
be
arrested
under
this
statute,
then
could
a
trans
man
be
arrested
under
the
statute?
Would
a
trans
man
have
female
breast
and
so
for
our
trans
community
and
and
I've
had
people
reach
out?
A
Both
women
in
our
community
have
had
trans
folks
reach
out
and
and
their
allies
reach
out,
and
this
this,
in
my
opinion,
creates
a
lot
of
confusion
and
I
think
there
are
if
we
want
to
regulate
toplessness
in
our
community.
I
think
we
can
regulate
it
in
a
gender-neutral
way
without
specifically
naming
a
female
breast
when
there
are
plenty
of
breast
again
there's
gynecomastia,
there
are
trans
folks.
There
are
plenty
of
non.
A
You
know
female
breasts
traditionally
under
the
biological
definition
that
would
fit
this
category
and
we
are
perfectly
fine
with
those
being
presented
in
public
and
I'll
close
with
this
on
this
item,
and
I
agree
that
we
certainly
need
more
analysis.
A
This
comes
from
elizabeth
katie
stanton
and
the
folks
in
1848,
when
the
declaration
of
sentiments
was
released
and
one
of
the
sentiments
that
they
stated
was
speaking
on
all
of
the
grievances
against
men.
They
say
he
has
created
a
false
public
sentiment
by
giving
to
the
world
a
different
code
of
morals
for
men
and
women,
by
which
moral
delinquencies,
which
exclude
women
from
society,
are
not
only
tolerated
but
deemed
of
little
account
in
man
again
in
our
city.
A
It
is
perfectly
fine
for
a
man
to
go
topless,
even
if
that
man
has
a
chest
that
presents
in
the
same
way
that
a
woman's
chest
would
present,
and
that
is
perfectly
legal,
and
I
think
we
need
to
re-examine
this
law
and
write
it
in
a
gender-neutral
way
that
either
excludes
all
breasts
that
present
as
female
or
you
know,
or
or
or
eliminate
this
statute
altogether.
E
E
That
is
the
first
question
I
have,
and
I
think
that
will
be
somewhat
determined
by
the
level
of
scrutiny
that
that
our
law,
department
and
interim
council
believes
that
this
will
will
go
under
will
fall
under,
and
at
that
point,
once
we
have
that
information.
I
think
it
is
very
clear.
E
E
But
I
appreciate
the
chair's
explanation.
Hopefully
we
can
record
this,
so
we
can
play
it
again
at
future
meetings
or
the
people
can
play
it
for
themselves,
because
I
think
your
your
stance
is
clear.
E
I
think
people
know
where
you're
coming
from,
but
again
it
may
come
down
to
whether
or
not
you
know
what
the
you
know,
what
our
interim
council
believe,
whether
or
not
they
believe
this
is
defensible
and
it'll
be
up
to
the
individuals
on
this
council
to
determine
whether
or
not
we
want
to
change
this
by
a
court
order
or
to
to
keep
it
in
play
until
someone
one
of
our
community
members
challenges.
H
E
That's
that's
what's
what's
at
hand
here,
but
thank
you
for
the
discussion
and
I
will
make
that
motion
to
table
this
and
that's
what
they're.
A
Second,
okay,
with
the
motion
to
table
in
order.
Thank
you
councilman
burns.
Thank
you,
council
tabendorf,
for
looking
at
this.
I'm
sorry.
H
A
No,
no,
I
will,
as
chair,
discuss
that
with
you
and
we'll
work
with
council
tapendorf.
I
would
imagine
that
this
would
come
back
within
if
not
the
next
meeting
the
meeting,
afterward
yeah,
I'm
sorry,
okay,
yeah,
either
in
august
or
september.
Yes,
okay,
with
that
the
I
wanted
to
make
a
one
further
comment:
yeah.
A
I
wanted
to
make
one
further
comment
and
but
I
I
don't
remember
what
that
is,
so
all
those
in
favor
say:
aye
aye
aye,
all
those
opposed
any
abstentions,
the
eyes
have
it
and
then
there's
one
last
item
on
our
agenda
and
somehow
we
skipped
over.
If
that
is
the
daily
crime
bulletin,
so
that'd
be
items
for
communication.
Hs2
chief
cook,
I
mean
I'm
again,
people
call
me
clark
clerk
reed
for
quite
a
while.
After
I
became
a
council
member
and.
A
E
Yeah
motion:
I.
E
E
Because
I
just
want
to
get
straight
to
the
point,
so
council
tabendorf,
have
you
been
able
to
review
the
is
it
statute
state
statute
cited
in
this
in
our
packet
today.
K
So
I've
not
been
asked
to
look
at
this
or
opine
on
this,
but
I'm
familiar
with
you're
talking
about
the
the
reporting
of
arrests,
correct,
correct.
E
K
E
I
think
what
I'm
trying
to
understand
is
if
the
city
has
to
proactively
publish
the
the
crime
bulletin,
including
names
and
addresses
on
a
website
in
an
email
newsletter.
If
we
have
to
proactively,
publish
it
and
push
these
names
out
in
order
to
be
in
compliance
with
the
state
statutes
cited
in
our
packet.
K
So
what
the
statute
says
is
that
it
has
to
be
that
certain
information-
and
that
includes
the
name
and
address-
has
to
be
furnished
no
later
than
72
hours
after
the
arrest.
So
so,
typically,
that's
that's
made
available
to
the
press.
That's
usually
who's
filed
a
request
for
that
information
and
they
are
entitled
just
as
anyone
that
files
a
freedom
of
information
act,
request
for
the
information,
including
the
name
and
address,
and.
E
You
said
something
important
council
so
again,
your
reading
is
that
furnishing
doesn't
mean
we
need
to
proactively,
proactively,
publish
this
without
any
request
being
made.
This
is
upon
request.
Is
your
interpretation
of
the
the
statute,
the
requirement.
K
This
particular
statute
that
you've
cited
that's
cited
and
that's.
This
particular
statute
provides,
if
you're,
asking,
if
there's
other
statutes
that
require
some
sort
of
a
publication.
We'd
have
to
look
into
that
I'm
familiar
with
the
statue.
K
In
fact,
I
have
it
up
on
my
screen
right
now
and
it
it
simply
says
that
this
information
has
to
be
furnished,
so
it
could
be
upon
request,
typically
the
communities
I
work
with,
provide
it
to
the
press,
so
they
have
an
arrest
blotter
or
it,
and
then
the
press
has
requested
that,
and
so
that's
regularly
provided.
E
But
if
we
were,
if
the
city
were
to
have
it
ready
and
upon
requests
provided
to
the
requester,
will
we
be
in
compliance
with
the
with
this
state
statute,
the
one
that
is
cited
in
the
packet.
K
E
Yeah,
so
I
would
so
again
if
this
is
the
only
statute
that
is
to
guide
our
decision
around
this
issue.
I
would
support
again
not
proactively,
releasing
it,
but
upon
your
you
know,
investigation
of
this
if
there
are
other
statutes
that
that
we
need
to
review
to
make
this
determination.
E
You
know
I'm
happy
to
review
that
that
is
all
chair.
Thank.
A
You
yeah
thank
you
and
I
I
certainly
agree.
My
interpretation
of
the
statute
is
that
we
do
not
have
to
proactive
release
and
also
council
tapendorf
in
that
within
that
same
statute.
It
also
cites
that,
for
example,
a
mugshot
it
doesn't
use
the
word
mugshot,
I
don't
think
but
a
mugshot.
K
So
that
is
the
type
of
arrest
reports
that
must
be
furnished
within
72
hours
and
again,
they're
typically
provided
to
the
press.
Who've
requested
that
you
can
kind
of
skip
over
the
criminal
history
records.
Those
are
a
little
different
and
that's
usually
upon
request
under
foia.
K
There
is
a
a
fairly
recent
amendment
within
the
last
couple
of
years
that
talk
about
booking
photographs
which
which
you
mentioned,
are
also
known
as
mug
shots,
and
this
this
provision
states
that
law
enforcement
agencies
cannot
publish
mug
shots
on
social
networking
websites,
so
facebook
instagram
and
that
for
certain
offenses,
so
civil
offenses,
petty
offenses
business
offenses,
in
other
words,
sort
of
the
more
mild
or
more.
K
You
know,
lesser
charges.
Then
the
felony
charges
in
that
there's.
Then
you
could
use
your
social
media
to
publish
the
mug
shots.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
and
so
chief
eddington,
it's
chief
cook,
just
rolls
off
the
tongue.
I
think
it's
just
the
sea,
this,
the
litter,
that's
the
double
c
chief
eddington.
The
police
department
currently
doesn't
proactively
release
photos.
F
A
It
doesn't,
it
doesn't
include
that
there,
so
you
know
I
I
think
you
know
that
I
think
we
haven't
I'm
looking
forward
to
our
council
looking
further
into
this,
to
make
sure
that
there
are
no
other
laws
that
require
us
to
proactively
release
this
information.
I
think
we've
decided
with
the
the
booking
photos
and
with
the
bond
information
and
a
whole
host
of
other
information,
that
we
have
decided
that
we're
not
going
to
proactively
release
that
information,
and
I
think,
particularly
with
the
distribution
of
you,
know
the
crime
bulletin.
A
That
includes
the
names
and
addresses
of
folks
arrested.
I
think
that
also
would
fall
under
the
area
of
we
should
not
proactively
release
it,
and
so
I'd
like
to
see
this
come
back
not
to
just
accept
and
place
this
on
file,
because
there's
a
referral
made
to
create
a
policy,
and
so
I'm
looking
forward
to
seeing
this
come
back
to
our
next
meeting
as
a
policy
that
would
no
longer
allow
the
police
department
to
proactively
release
this
information
under
certain
circumstances.
Yeah.
A
If
someone,
you
know,
obviously,
if
we're
looking
for
someone,
if
there's
a
fugitive
on
the
on
this-
and
that
has
nothing
to
do
with
this,
but
you
know,
of
course,
if
there's
a
fugitive,
we
want
to
find
them.
We
want
to
post
information
about
them,
but
just
someone
who's
been
arrested.
I
don't
think
we
need
to
proactively
release
that.
I
see
that.
F
You
want
to,
if
I
may
sure,
mr
chairman,
there's
there's
a
there's
a
couple
of
real
world
logistics.
We're
going
to
have
to
deal
with.
You
know
once
again,
I'm
sure
we
have
the
representative
from
nu
here
what
they're
going
to
do.
If
we
do
this
policy,
it's
going
to
be
here.
Here's
our
standing
request
for
this
information
daily,
I
mean
they're.
F
F
We
asked
the
lawyer
to
do
some
research
which
you
will,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day,
she's
already
told
us
that,
upon
request,
you
got
to
give
it
up,
and
yes,
I'm
telling
you
these
are
smart.
Folks
are
just
going
to
ask.
I
mean
that
that's
how
this
works,
and
and
and
even
with
our
reluctance
to
release
mug
photos.
F
Most
of
the
evanston
media
has
found
the
way
around
that
to
get
the
mug
photos
from
other
sources,
and
so
I
I
appreciate
we
want
to
be
guarded
in
this.
I
think
the
police
department
has
proactively
reflected
that
stance,
but
I
I
think
that
we're
about
to
go
to
a
place
that
your
expectations
aren't
going
to
be
met
yeah.
I
I.
A
Just
don't
want
to
confuse
our
expectations.
I
know
my
expectation
is
not
that
this
information
will
never
be
released.
I,
as
a
former
foia
officer,
understand
for
you
quite
well
and
understand
that
folks
have
access
to
all
kinds
of
stuff
that
we
may
not
want
released.
You
know,
so
anyone
can
go
and
foia
all
of
my
emails,
and
so
you
know
so.
I
yeah,
I
think,
we're
very
clear
that
this
can
be
released.
I
I
just
want
to
so
I'll
add
for
council,
tapendorf
and
ansel
glink
to
you
know
again.
A
As
a
former
foia
officer,
I
would
say:
there's
nothing
in
foyer
that
would
conflict
with
this
us
no
longer
releasing
it,
but
certainly
if
anselblink
wants
to
look
into
the
foia
implications.
I'd
be
happy
to
have
him
look
into
to
that
as
well,
and
you
know,
and
sda
council
member
byron
says
his
lego.
E
No
because
I
I
don't
know
if
also
the
concern
is
that
this
would
this
would
lead
to
additional
work
for
our
foia
officers,
because
they
would
have
to
continue
to
furnish
it.
You
know
one
person
at
a
time.
I
don't
know
if
that's
the
concern,
but
I
think
there's
a
way
to
get
around
that
too.
You
know
where
we're
still
not
emailing
it
out,
but
you
know
we're
making
it
available.
E
Maybe
it's
a
secured
link
with
the
passcode,
but
it's
because
it
has
to
be
you
have
it
sounds
like
the
statute
is
saying
it
has
to
like
you
have
to
have
it.
You
have
to
keep
it.
You
have
to
know
this
information
it
just
and
you
need
to
furnish
it
when
it's
when
when
when
requested,
but
you
have
to
gather
it
all
up
or
keep
it
in
a
way
in
which
it
can
be
released.
E
So
I
think
how
we
release
that
we
can
work
on
that
in
a
way
that
wouldn't
add,
you
know
additional
work
to
our
foia
officer
at
the
police
department.
We
could
think
through
that,
but
I
think
we,
I
think,
there's
a
middle
ground
that
won't
create
unreasonable
new
work
for
the
foia
officer
and
the
police
department,
but
also
doesn't
won't,
require
us
to
to
push
it
out
in
an
email
or
anything
like
that.
I
Chief
eddington:
do
you
know
if
there's
any
police
departments
who
have
strictly
like
a
searchable
website
that
does
has
this
information
rather
than
email?
Does
anyone
do
it
that
way.
F
I'm
I'm
I'm
unfamiliar
with
it.
I
I
we
can
look
into
it.
That
should
be
a
relatively
I'm.
Certainly
I'm
certain
there
are
that,
depending
on
state
laws
and
and
state
state
statutes
and
laws
and
they're
local
versions
of
foia,
I'm
sure
that's
an
option,
because
I
would
presume
that
somebody's
been
smart
enough
to
say
once
we
put
this
in
the
computer
and
enter
the
data
once
we
can
have
this
portal
that
that
looks
at
this.
So
I'm
sure
it
exists,
I'm
just
not
familiar
with
it.
Okay,
thanks
thank.
A
E
And
just
real
quick,
I
was
just
going
to
say
that
I
mean,
I
think,
that's
one
of
the
options.
I
mean
one
of
the
options
if
we
really
want
to
secure
so
we
don't,
we
want
to
create
a
barrier,
it's
like
to
have
some
portal
where
they
need
a
passcode
etc,
but
that
was
one
thought
I
had
so
it
could
just
be
a
link
on
the
website
and
you
know
where
it
is.
We
don't
have
that
many
media,
like
you,
just
keep
pointing
to
the
same
place.
It's
there.
A
Yeah,
you
know
my
thank
you
councilmember
burns
and
head
our
council
member
russ
simmons
and
head
of
cottas.
I
I
I
agree.
I
I
I.
A
I
think
there
is
a
way
to
ensure
that
we
are
not
creating
more
work
again.
The
record
has
to
be
created
has
to
be
maintained.
I
just
want
to
note
that
there
is
you,
someone
can't
make
a
standing
for
you,
like
you,
can't
place
a
record
and
just
say:
hey
I'd
like
to
fly
this
record
every
day,
you'd
actually
have
to
go
through
the
process
of
actually
filing
that,
for
you,
every
single
day
and
only
media
would
be
allowed
to.
A
You
know,
make
a
request
every
single
day,
and
I
doubt
that
most
media,
because
there's
an
exemption
for
media
to
anyone
else,
would
be
deemed
a
recurrent
requester,
and
so
this
would
create
a
barrier
for
me.
I
doubt
that
you
know
anyone
other
than
maybe
evanston
now
would
have
the
time
to
make
the
foia
every
day,
and
I
think
that'd
even
be
a
burden
for
their
team.
So
I
would
imagine
that
these
would
come
in
on
a
you
know,
maybe
a
weekly
basis,
a
monthly
basis
and
just
get
all
of
it.
A
I
can't
imagine
again
other
than
maybe
one
publication
doing
it
on
a
daily
basis,
and
so
I
I
think
we
can
look
into
that
and
as
since
we're
on
the
topic,
if,
if
it
is
the
desire,
I
would
like
to
end
the
public
distribution
of
this
and
require
a
foia
for
it.
A
I
think,
because
it's
it
is
also
foiable
information
that
all
police
misconduct
records
right
if
a
police
officer
violates
someone's
rights
here,
that
is
a
foiable
record
and
so
for
proactively
releasing
information
on
our
residents
that
could
be
embarrassing,
harmful
and
they
haven't
been
found
guilty.
A
I
think
we
need
to
do
the
exact
same
thing
with
our
law
enforcement
officers
and
create
a
website
where
we,
in
that
same
similar
link,
where
we
put
all
of
the
accusations
that
residents
have
made
against
law
enforcement
and,
if
folks
aren't
willing
to
also
support
that,
if
we're
not
willing
to
also
say
that
our
law
enforcement
officers
need
to
have
the
same
standard
as
our
residents
and
need
to
have
a
public
website,
disclosing
information
that
they
have
not
been
found
guilty
of.
If
that
is
not
your
agreement,
then
then
you
know.
A
K
Yes,
I
just
wanted
to
to
just
raise
two
issues:
number
one,
this
statute,
trumps
foia
with
respect
to
just
the
records
that
I
named,
that
have
to
be
maintained
and
furnished.
It
is
a
shorter
statutory
time
frame
and
and
a
requester
does
not
have
to
file
a
foia
request.
They
can,
but
they
don't
have
to.
K
This
statute
provides
a
faster
way
and
it's
usually
the
press
that
asks
for
this,
but
it
could
be
other
people
to
gather
information
about
about
arrests
and
and
the
details
about
it
so
who
got
arrested
and
that
so
I
think
we
have
to
be
careful
not
to
you
know
the
question
of
whether
it
has
to
be
published.
I
think
you
know
I'm
not
aware
of
any
statute.
K
Besides
this
one
will
certainly
ask
around
and
take
a
look,
but
my
guess
is
that
there
isn't
a
statute
that
requires
you
to
email
it
out
or
publish
it.
That's
going
to
be
a
policy
decision,
but
you
do
have
to
create
the
record.
You
have
to
maintain
it
and
you
have
to
provide
it
within
72
hours.
So
you
can't
rely
solely
on
foia
for
this
and
say
if
the
newspaper
requested
it,
it
does
need
to
be
treated
differently
than
a
traditional
foia,
because
it
and
that's
just
how
that
statute
has
been
treated.
K
H
E
A
I
am
engaging
legal
counsel
at
this
point
because
I
think,
if
we're
moving
forward
with
a
a
citizen
database,
it
would
be
included
in
my
desire
would
be
including
that
same
policy
creating
a
database
that
is
mirrored
for
law
enforcement
in
chicago
with
their
copa
and
other
boards
have
done
similar
action
where
they
post
all
of
the
information
I've
actually
worked
with
jamie
calvin
and
then
invisible
institute
and
others
to
vet.
This.
A
When
I
was
clerk,
I
put
forward
a
policy
also
working
with
lovie
and
lovey
to
determine
the
legality
of
this.
So
I've
we've
done.
While
I
was
clerk,
the
the
legal
leg
work
to
ensure
that
this
is
as
it
pertains
to
police
records,
legal.
But
I'd
love
to
have
you
all,
I'm
always
a
fan
of
second
opinions,
whether
it's
a
doctor
or
a
lawyer
and
so
happy
to
have
you
all,
as
well
as
as
we've
had
lovey
and
lovey
renowned
civil
rights
and
foia
and
oma
firm.
A
In
fact,
the
the
case,
the
2018
case,
jamie
calvin,
calvin
v
city
of
chicago,
was
it
was
litigated
by
the
attorney
that
helped
us
do
the
research
matt
topic.
F
Mr
chairman,
if
I
may,
in
the
context
of
evanston,
in
the
issues
that
we're
facing
and
what
we
occurred
just
tonight,
where
the
complaints
against
officers
were
reviewed
in
public
on
camera,
I'm
not
sure
that
this
is
a
necessary
or
needed
step
here,
and
I
I
am
want
to
want
to
call
to
your
attention
that
that
and
emphasize
what
the
attorney
said
that
there
there
there's
a
lot
of
minefields
here,
not
only
legal
ones
but
officer
retention,
ones
that
that
I
would
please
please,
please
be
cautious
in
your
consideration
of
this
there's
other
factors
that
we
have
to
juggle
as
a
city,
and
I
think
too,
if
you
look
at
what
the
city
is
doing,
vis-a-vis
its
scrutiny
of
law
enforcement
is
substantial.
A
I
I
would
agree
with
you:
we
want
to
wrap
up
because
we
have
another
committee
meeting,
that's
starting
soon.
I
would
certainly
agree
with
you,
but
I
I
worry
about
resident
retention.
The
same
way
that
I
worry
about
officer
retention.
I
want
to
make
sure
that
our
residents
have
the
same
level
of
we
give
our
residents
and
law
enforcement
the
same
level
of
respect.
A
So
that's
all
I'm
looking
for
is
what's
good,
for
the
goose
is
good
for
the
gander
is
what
my
grandmother
would
always
say,
and
if
it's
good
for
law
enforcement
to
not
have
their
names
and
addresses
read
here,
because
we
don't
say
the
name
of
the
officer,
we
don't
see
the
address
of
the
officer.
I
think
that
is
a
similar
standard
we
should
hold
for
residents
for
retention.
Did
you
have
something
final
and
then
we'll
close
out
yeah.
E
I
just
wanted
to
to
recap
on
the
the
legal
analysis
and
review
that
we
requested
from
council,
because
I've
forgotten
some
of
them.
So
can
we
just
do
a
final
recap?
I
don't
know
if
you
know
or
counsel
tavendor
see
we're
keeping
track
yeah.
We
have.
K
All
over
the
place,
I'm
pretty
sure
I've
got
a
good
sense
of
what
you're.
Looking
for
you
know,
timing
I
can.
I
can
reach
out
to
city
staff
to
to
sort
of
talk
about
the
the
timing,
and
you
know
I've
got
I've
got
looking
at
what
a
lawful
order
is.
There
is
case
law
on
that
by
the
way,
looking
at
and
preparing
a
memo
on,
the
the
potential
gender
discrimination
claims
and
the
defensibility
of
the
public
nudity
ordinance.
K
I
have
that
that's
an
analysis
included
in
that
would
be
looking
at
the
definition
of
breast
looking
at
the
scrutiny
levels,
and
then
this
last
one,
although
I'm
pretty
sure
I
know
the
answer-
that
there
is
no
statute
that
requires
any
sort
of
affirmative
publication
of
the
arrest
information.
I
just
you
know
I
have
it
written
down
just
to
confirm
that
and
then
last.
K
Yes,
and,
and
that
you
know,
I
think
it's
probably
premature
to
do
any
research
now
until
we
know
if
we
have
a
sense
of
what
it
is,
that
you're
looking
to
publicize,
because
that.
A
I
will
send
you
a
memo
that
the
clerk's
office
issued,
but
it's
essentially
just
complaint
registers
is
what
we'd
be
looking
to
release
and
and
all
of
the
accompanying
data.
K
A
I
will
share
that
with
you,
seeing
that
is
6
59
and
there
is
a
land
use
commission.
I
believe
that
is
about
to
start
here
and
a
lot
of
folks
waiting
for
it.
This
meeting
is
now
adjourned.
Thank
you
all
for
joining
us.