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From YouTube: Preservation Commission Meeting 12-10-2019
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A
Welcome
to
the
December
10
2009
teen
meeting
of
the
Evanston
Preservation
Commission.
We
have
a
quorum
of
seven
members
of
the
Commission,
just
informational
II.
If
anybody
is
here
for
the
matters
of
2390
origin
or
24:04
Ridge,
the
applicants
on
both
have
requested.
They
be
continued,
so
we'll
have
to
proceed
with
a
formal
motion
to
continue
them,
but
just
you
know
if
anybody
was
here
for
those
they
will
not
be
heard
tonight.
If
you
are
not
an
applicant
and
you
wish
to
speak
tonight,
please
sign
the
sign-up
sheet.
A
We
need
to
record
all
names
and
information
for
anybody
to
speak.
The
meetings
are
videotaped,
and
so
you
need
to
speak
into
the
speaker
or
you
won't
be
on
the
tape.
So
if
you
do
have
anything
to
say,
please
come
up
to
the
lectern
and
speak
formally
into
the
microphone.
The
procedure
will
follow,
for
each
matter
will
be.
A
The
applicant
will
have
an
opportunity
to
present
their
package
showing
us
materials
they
presented,
and
you
know
any
other
materials
that
wish
to
show
the
Commission
at
this
time
will
then
have
the
commissioners
ask
any
questions
they
have
the
applicant
then
ask
the
applicant
to
have
a
seat.
Will
then
give
members
of
the
public
wish
to
speak
about
that
matter?
Two
minutes
to
each
to
speak.
I'll,
try
not
to
hold
up
the
nametag.
Ask
you
telling
you
there's
15
seconds
left,
but
it
if
the
honor
system
doesn't
work.
A
B
A
C
My
name
is
Gary
shoemaker
I'm,
with
shoemaker
Design,
Associates
and
I'm.
Here
on
behalf
of
7:47
Michigan
Avenue.
We
are
back
to
present
some
revisions
that
were
requested
from
our
last
presentation
to
this
body.
This
is
working
now
there
we
go,
there's
been
no
change
to
our
to
our
application
paperwork.
C
When
we
met
last
a
couple
of
the
comments
that
the
commissioners
had
is
that
were
one
that
the
proportion
of
the
openings
was
incompatible
with
the
standards
we
have
since
changed.
The
proportion
of
this
we've
widened
the
to
brick.
Columns.
We've
narrowed
these
to
transom
lights.
They
match
exactly
the
sash
panels
which
are
adjacent
to
them,
can
do
that
later,
Carlos.
C
They,
the
brick
molding,
is
again
identical
to
the
brick
molding
around
the
existing
windows.
The
lower
panels
are
identical
to
the
panels
established
on
the
front
facade
of
the
house.
We
believe
this
clearly
meets
the
standard
that
the
Commission
objected
to
in
our
last
meeting.
The
other
item
that
the
Commission
had
had
taken
issue
with
was
the
addition
of
the
widow's
walk
railings
around
the
top
of
the
around
the
existing
roof
on
the
west
side
of
the
house
and
our
incorporation
of
those
on
this
side.
We
have
since
eliminated
the
higher
brick
piers.
C
That
seemed
to
be
a
point
of
contention.
In
our
discussions.
We
have
lowered
those
continued
the
cornice
work
across.
We
will
still,
we
still
are
requesting
the
use
of
the
railing
on
the
front
and
the
rear.
However,
we
have
minimized
the
impact
of
that
reducing
the
brick
columns
on
the
on
the
ends.
You
see
this.
This
is
the
West
elevation,
which
is
similar.
The
columns
are
a
bit
smaller
than
no
longer
proportioned
to
match
the
brick
piers
that
we
had
proposed
previously.
C
C
These
are
examples
of
houses
that
were
built
in
the
mid
20s
that
all
incorporate
these
most.
If
not
all,
of
these
are
of
the
same
Dutch
colonial
style.
We're
not
trying
to
make
this
house
look
any
differently
than
it
ever
had
before,
and
I
would
also
point
out
that
this
is
a
fantastic
sample
about
the
National
Trust
of
a
house
built
in
I,
think
the
1700s
and
you
notice
the
to
end
porches
the
front
porch
on
the
front
canopy
enclosure
on
the
porch.
C
The
proportion
of
this
house
are
very
similar
that
we
have
the
addition
of
these
railings
in
this
fenestration
on
this
porch
is
considered
an
example
by
the
National
Trust
of
an
appropriate
way
to
modify
a
structure
of
this
age
and
in
this
process.
So
with
that
I
think
I've
addressed
the
concerns
the
Commissioner
had
okay.
A
D
B
D
We
issue
a
certificate
appropriateness
for
the
project
at
7:47,
Michigan
Avenue,
the
demolition
of
the
existing
screen,
porch
and
construction
of
a
new
frame
and
masonry
screen
porch
and
the
installation
of
new
wrought
iron
railings
and
new
widow
walk
railings
on
the
porches
standards
for
alteration,
one
through
10
construction,
one
through
four,
seven,
eight
and
10
through
15
and
demolition.
One
through
six
all
apply
a
second.
A
F
E
E
Also
with
the
400
series,
would
right
that
we're
looking
to
install
in
place
of
this,
it
comes
with
matching
frame
depth
so
with
these
older
windows
that
have
either
weight
pockets
or
metal
pulley
systems,
this
will
replace
that
and
it
should
look
pretty
much
the
way
it
is
existing
now.
In
addition
to
then
putting
around
that
two
and
a
quarter
trim
on
the
outside
picture
frame.
As
you
can
see
here,.
E
Here's
a
couple
of
examples,
a
couple
of
which
that
are
in
the
field
and
two
that
are
in
the
showroom
that
is
located
in
Glendale
Heights.
These
are
examples
of
all
work
that
we've
done
or
that
has
been
done
through
the
Andersen
corporation.
We
are
a
family
owned
dealership
that
represents
them,
like
I,
said
out
of
Glendale
Heights
again
examples
from
the
showroom
on
the
interior
trim
as
well
looking
to
match
up
with.
E
What's
existing,
there
is
a
combination
of
fluted
teardrop,
but
we
are
looking
to
go
towards
a
farmhouse
across
the
entire
house,
so
switching
that
out,
but
we
would
have
the
four
and
a
half
inches
instead
of
fluted
would
be
farmhouse
on
the
interior
across
the
board,
just
matching
up
with
the
existing
here's,
an
example
again
showing
what
I
had
said
about
that
frame
depth.
Again,
it's
going
to
match
up
with
the
existing
window
frame.
E
E
On
the
exterior
the
it
instead
of
having
glazing
beads
where
they
have
inserted
the
actual
glass
into
the
sash
of
the
window,
there
is
it's
aesthetically
gonna
look
like
it
was
actually
handcrafted
with
like
a
putty
line,
but
that's
a
manufactured.
Look
that
they've
actually
perfected
what
they
Anderson
the
400
series
tilt
wash
is
kind
of
a
more
familiar
window,
but
this
had
came
into
play
in
the
early
2000s
because
it
matches
up
to
the
original
architecture
better
than
this
tilt
wash
and
then
on
the
interior.
There
is
a
hidden
Jam
system
with
wood.
E
This
is
just
showing
the
anchoring
and
the
process
of
how
we
screw
into
the
existing
studs
jack
and
king
studs,
and
again
we
put
a
low
expanding
foam
also
around
any
dead
air
space
and
then
put
a
rubberized
material
on
the
exterior
and
then
cap.
It
again
with
that
two-and-a-half
picture
frame
aluminum
on
the
exterior
and
again
these
are
just
different
examples
that
are
incorporated
into
the
packets
as
well
just
showing
how
they
match
up
with
the
frame
depth.
E
B
B
A
B
It's
it's
really
it's
well,
let's
call
it
an
extrusion
for
want
of
a
better
word,
there's
an
exterior
half
of
that
of
each
window,
plus
a
piece
of
wood
on
the
inside.
The
issue.
I
think
that
we've
discussed
and
if
you
I
don't
know
if
you
were
informed
of
what
went
on
the
last
time,
was
the
issue
of
it
being
a
wood
window,
you're
describing
it
as
a
wood
window
clad,
but
it's
not
even
a
wood
window
clad
in
this
case.
B
This
is
basically
an
exterior
window
of
some
hydrocarbon
and
wood
on
the
inside,
but
our
concern
has
always
been
and
I
think
and
I.
Just
reread
the
the
minutes
and
I
think
what
was
brought
up
by
several
members
was
the
issue
of
investigating
the
fact
that
this
was
originally
a
wood
window
and
that
the
owner
was
to
look
into
the
potential
of
either
restoring
or
replacing
the
wood
window
with
a.
E
That
case,
would
you
recommend
doing
a
400
series
tilt
wash
because
it's
a
wood
core
window
but
I?
Guess
it's
it's
a
line
between
the
two
as
the
400
series
wood
core
window?
Well,
it
is
made
up
or
composed
of
more
wood.
It's
only
protected
by
a
flex
ekron
exterior
paint,
which
is
a
perma
sealed
type
of
paint
which
it's
thick.
E
B
This
is
an
issue
that
we've
all
been
discussing
about
and
I
guess.
Historically,
it's
been
either
if
it
was
a
wood
window
that
it
was
replaced
with
a
wood
window,
whether
the
wood
window
was
restored,
and/or
replaced
one
or
the
other
and
I
guess
at
some
point
in
time.
Carlos
you'll
have
to
maybe
tell
us
when
aluminum
clad
windows
were
accepted,
but
I
have
no
idea
was
before
my
time
on
the
Commission.
It's.
G
Been
sometime
ago
now
we
had
a
seminar
with
the
city
and
we
invited
the
state
preservation,
historic
preservation
office,
to
give
us
some
guidance
and
that's
when
they
announced
that
they
were
now
accepting
the
aluminum
clad
wood
windows
instead
of
all
wood
windows.
The
primary
reason
they
gave
at
the
time
is
because
there
was
some
issue
in
the
industry
with
word
that
was
deteriorating
really
fast.
B
F
F
E
It
seems
like
there's
confusion
and
you're,
referring
to
this,
not
as
a
wood
window
and
I
understand
the
reasoning
behind
that.
But
there
is
extrusions
or
milled
pieces
of
pine
on
the
interior
as
well
as
the
frame
is
composed
of
solid
wood
with
a
PVC
cladding
on
the
exterior.
The
only
portions
that
are
clouded
with
this
fibrex
material
are
is
the
sash
as
well
as
the
sill
that
is
slanted
on
the
exterior,
so
this
is
defined
in
it,
and
I
have
brochures
with
Andersen
here
as
a
wood
window.
J
F
B
Think
that
I
think
you're
missing
the
point.
We
don't
even
have
any
purview
over
the
interior.
So
to
that
extent
the
interior
you've
made
a
big
point
about
the
interior
being
wood-
that's
not
even
in
our
jurisdiction,
if
I
can
call
it
that
it's
really
the
exterior
and
right
now
from
when
I
look
at
this
at
the
drawings
that
you
presented,
they
all
of
what
we
would
see
on
the
outside
and
the
model
are
going
to
be
some
type
of
a
plastic
material.
Is
that
correct?
There
is
no
wood
exposed,
no.
E
No
and
that's
the
whole
point
to
keep
it
as
low
maintenance
as
possible,
so
so
you're
saying
I
guess
my
question
is
the
only
no
no
I
apologize,
so
I'm,
not
sure
so
is,
is
the
only
acceptable.
Cladding
then
going
to
be
aluminum,
because
there's
studies
that
show
aluminum
as
an
exterior
cladding
can
provide
more
conduction
and
more
heat
transfer,
more
cold
transfer
during
the
winter
months.
K
I'm
I
mean
we've:
we've
approved
aluminum,
clad
frequently
so
I
think
we've
had
discussions
over
the
fibrex,
mostly
because
of
the
profile
on
the
shapes
and
the
way
it
looks
in
comparison
to
a
historic
window.
I
don't
see
how
this
window
is
significantly
different
from
a
metal
like
an
aluminum
clad
window,
since
it
is
a
wood
window
with
cladding.
Obviously,
it's
PVC
clad
instead
of
aluminum,
but
I
do
think
that
the
profiles
are
similar
to
an
aluminum,
clad
window.
B
Apparently,
that
was
approved
by
the
state
and
I
think
we
discussed
I,
don't
think
you
were
at
him.
It
was
a
couple
meetings
ago
about
the
idea
that
we
should
actually
be
having
a
discussion
about
the
issue
of
all
of
the
alternative
materials
that
are
out
there.
I
guess
whether
it
be
five
bricks
and
or.
J
K
But
in
the
meeting
minutes
that
I
read
from
the
last
meeting,
it
was
discussed
that
a
clad
wood
without
so
they've
obviously
come
back
with
that
type
of
option.
I
think
the
question
right
now
is:
is
a
PVC
clad
acceptable
or
does
it
have
to
be
an
aluminum
glass
and
how
do
those
profiles
visually
look
different
in
comparison
to
a
historic
I.
B
Mean
I'm
not
looking
at
the
original
window,
I
think
the
you
know,
I
I
think
we
can
do
that
and
I'm
not
sure
I'm
averse
to
it,
but
I
think
that,
as
soon
as
we
are
approving
this
we've
set
the
precedent
for
all
future
I
know
without
the
level
of
discussion
that
Carlos
brought
up
where
it
was
asking
the
state
and
other
preservation,
that's
called
Commission's
or
agencies
as
to
what
sort
of
let's
call
it
the
national
or
state
wide
stances.
We
don't
have
that
here
so.
J
A
E
Do
carry
what
is
considered
an
e
series
that
is
like
I,
said,
not
a
highly
promoted
product.
Others
and
I
mean
it's
if
you
guys
are
to
deem
that
this
is
unacceptable.
I
would
go
back
to
the
drawing
board
with
that,
but
I
don't
recommend
that
material
I've
been
in
the
industry.
You
know
as
young
as
I
am
for
years
and
I
got
to
say.
I
recommend
this
material
over
that
aluminum
on
the
exterior.
If.
G
I
may
I
think
the
biggest
issue
for
the
Commission
and
think
for
the
preservation
community
in
general.
Is
that
the
appearance
of
the
material
from
us
you
can
see
it
from
the
outside,
so
we're
not
as
sort
of
discussing
whether
it
is
like
free
maintenance
or
no
maintenance.
You
know
everything.
Saurus
I
can
tell
need
some
type
of
maintenance
at
some
point.
L
G
E
I,
unfortunately,
I
did
request
drawings
from
Andersen
window
corporation.
Unfortunately,
with
the
timetable,
it
was
kind
of
a
quick
turnaround.
I
was
unable
to
get
those
side
by
side
drawings.
The
best
thing
I
could
do
was
go
out
and
take
pictures
like
I
did
of
their
house
and
then
immediately
go
into
my
showroom,
which
we
installed
these
windows
and
take.
Those
pictures
that
were
up
here
and
I
have
no
problem
going
back
through
if
that
would
help.
As
far
as
seeing
what
those
profiles
look
like
on
the
exterior
I.
B
Think
I
think
what
Carlos
was
referring
to
basically
is
in
the
same
way
that
you've
got
a
section.
You
know
you've
got
a
vertical
section
or
a
plans
section
through
the
window.
What
about
a
vertical
section
in
a
plans
section
of
the
existing
window?
That's
all
we
needed
didn't
have
to
be
painstaking
with
detail,
but
we're
not
seeing
the
profile
I.
Think
that's
what
you're
referring
to
isn't
it
Carlos?
That's.
G
Correct
so
you
know,
one
of
the
things
I
hear
constantly
from
people
who
want
to
replace
windows
is
that
either
the
owner
doesn't
have
the
knowledge
or
expertise
to
draw
and
so
that
they
will
have
to
hire
someone
who
could
do
that.
But
not
all
the
companies
like
yourself
have
that
expertise
either,
so
they
they
photographs
or
they
have
sketches
or
something
that
you
know
is
what
they
represent
the
window
at
6
and
I
propose.
G
We
also
received
the
manufacturers
cut
sheets
which,
basically,
don't
necessarily
show
the
actual
dimensions,
just
show
the
tempo
or
style
of
window.
So
those
are
impediments
for
the
Commission
to
actually
to
make
a
decision
that
will
show
them
that
what
they're
proving
is
compatible
because
a
tokahana
window
is
a
toboggan
window.
G
It's
just
the
detail
that
they're
interested
in
making
sure
that
it's
a
good
good
replacement
in
terms
of
compatibility,
so
I
I,
don't
know
if
you
and
your
client
can
provide
that
so
that
this
product
or
any
other
in
your
serious
that
you
provide,
will
be
a
good
match
to
the
existing.
In
terms
of
what
you
see
from
the
exterior.
G
E
G
Think
maybe
you
can
illustrate
what
part
of
the
house
would
look
I
mean
if
you
go
back,
maybe
you
can
give
us
more.
So
let's
stick
with
the
front
elevation.
There's
four
windows
there.
There
seems
to
be
the
same.
So
do
you
have
a
way
to
show
that
the
replacement
window
in
some
ways
or
in
many
ways,
isn't
compatible
with
those
windows
in
terms
of
what
you
see
from
the
outside
as
a
wood
window.
E
E
The
one
on
the
bottom
left
is
the
one
that
I
would
use.
Is
the
closest
reference
point
to
what
you're
seeing
right
here,
because
it's
a
standalone
window,
it's
pretty
difficult
to
determine
what
the
profile
of
the
front
elevations
are
because
of
the
picture
being
so
far
back.
It
was
more
so
to
show
what
we're
we're
replacing
those
windows.
That's
why
I
did
the
smaller
picture
on
the
bottom
left
that
details?
What
with
an
insect
screen
like
it
shows
here.
F
F
G
G
Yes,
they're
sizing
of
the
photograph
see
the
thing
is
visually.
When
you
have
a
table
with
dimensions,
it
really
doesn't
convey
what
the
appearance
would
be.
So
that's
why
we
asked
to
have
an
elevation
drawing
of
existing
and
proposed
side
by
side
so
that
they
can
see
the
dimensions
of
the
glass
area
in
the
meeting
railing
zone
versus
just
a
photograph
that
has
dimensions
on
it.
G
E
B
B
B
B
D
Guess
my
two
cents
and
why
I
feel
conflicted
by
this
is
I
think
in
terms
of
the
exterior
appearance
of
this
window
as
compared
to
an
aluminum,
clad
wood
window.
The
profiles
and
the
appearance
and
the
details
are
going
to
be
almost
indistinguishable.
But
the
real
difference
is,
with
this
window.
We've
kind
of
got
the
fibrex
extrusion
is
the
bulk
of
the
mass
and
the
wood
on
the
interior
is
rather
thin
versus
the
aluminum
clad
windows,
where
it's
kind
of
a
massive
wood
and
the
aluminum
is
the
thin
kind
of
cladding
element.
K
K
I
mean
I've,
obviously
repeatedly
gone
on
record
against
five
irks.
Windows
I,
don't
think
that
they
look
the
same
I,
don't
think
they're
appropriate
for
historic
use.
This
building
is
this
home
is
a
landmark
home,
so
it
makes
it
difficult.
I
do
think
it
will
be
beneficial
to
discuss
this
in
more
detail
I
just
unfortunately,
I
do
not
think
that
tonight
is
that
night.
K
B
They
tend
to
get
beat
up
pretty
badly
and
the
vinyl
doesn't
hold
up,
but
one
of
the
advantages
when
there's
been
a
backing
or
let's
call
it
a
wrap,
I
hate
to
call
it
a
wrapper,
but
it
is
essentially
a
wrap
of
either
aluminum
and/or
vinyl,
which
were
most
of
the
earlier
Andersen
windows,
not
just
I,
think
the
400
series,
but
even
I'm,
not
sure
about
the
100's
and
all
the
rest
has
to
do
with
the
fact
that
it's
really
a
wood
core
wrapped.
This
is
no
longer
a
wood
core.
B
K
E
That
they
have
we,
we
could
definitely
go
down
that
road
again,
it's
more
so
from
a
recommendation
standpoint
within
Anderson
and
within
our
company.
This
is
the
window
that
we
promote
more
than
the
aluminum
for
various
reasons,
biggest
won't
be
in
conduction,
so
I
we
would
have
no
problem.
You
know
visiting
that
route
and,
seeing
you
know,
obviously
we
would
work
that
out
with
them
and
then
be
able
to
come
back
with
that.
Do.
K
E
J
B
K
B
M
E
A
lot
of
times,
they're
talking
about
cutting
out,
stops
and
inserting
inside
of
existing
window
frames
with
ours,
we're
talking
about
a
full
frame
installation
where
we
take
out
like
just
don't
wait:
pockets,
like
I,
said
any
space.
That
would
be
that
airspace
would
be
filled
with
the
low
expanding
foam
and
then
capped
with
a
rubberized
material
on
the
outside
yeah.
A
A
A
E
A
F
Mean
if
I
may
respond
to
that?
Actually
you
refer
to
the
discussion
to
that.
You
weren't
that
last
time
you
mentioned
that
you
needed
to
have
that
discussion
about
you
accepted
aluminum
flood
weather.
You
also
accept
others.
What
was
we
had
accepted
that
not
I
didn't
anticipate
that
to
be
on
the
topic
again
here,
but
okay,
so
that
the
my
clarification
now
what
I
need
or
what
we
need
to
prepare
for
next
time.
So
the
one
thing
is
to
discuss
with
him
whether
that
aluminum
cladding
is
an
option
for
us
in
in
all
directions.
G
I
may
I
will
strongly
recommend
that
you
have
one
drawing
of
your
typical
window.
You
have
four
or
so
on
the
front
elevation,
which
is
the
visible
facade
next
to
the
profiles
and
dimensions
elevation
of
the
proposed
window.
So
that's
that
and
numbers
are
information
that
only
is
useful
to
four
measurements,
but
it
doesn't
show
you
the
appearance,
so
I
think
that
the
dimensions
on
an
exterior
elevation,
not
interior,
next
to
the
exterior
drawing
of
the
proposed
window.
G
It
would
be
very
helpful
and
I
just
want
to
also
emphasize
that
when
the
state
announced
that
aluminum
clad
windows
are
acceptable,
they
also
said
that
not
all
aluminum,
clad
windows
necessarily
will
be
approved
because
of
the
profile
issue.
So
you
have
to
also
keep
in
mind
that
if,
in
the
line
of
products
that
you
have
there's
a
particular
series,
that
is
a
closer
match
to
what
you
are
trying
to
replace
I
will
definitely
encourage
it
to
do
that.
To
put
them
the
best
possible
match.
E
G
This
point,
this
is
the
material
that
the
Commission
has
approved
for
landmarks,
preferably
if
you
look
at
the
ordinance
I'm
sure
you're
familiar
with
it,
is
that,
whenever
possible,
repair
when
replacement
is
necessarily
present
in
kind
style,
texture
material.
So
that's
not
change,
except
that
now
that
Commission
is
looking
at
the
aluminum
as
an
alternative
when
the
profile
and
dimensions
are
a
good
are.
A
E
B
B
A
Alright,
thank
you
I'm,
so
the
moving
on
to
new
business,
the
first
matter,
2404
Ridge.
We
need
to
continue
to
our
next
meeting.
It's
it's
possible.
The
matter
will
be
resolved
before
that,
meaning
what
we
need
to
formally
continue
it
lekin.
Do
you
want
to
move
which
we
continued,
since
this
is
close
to
your
heart.
A
N
N
N
The
first
so
a
quick
kind
of
review
of
what
the
project
is.
This
was
a
stable
built
in
about
1890.
It
has
seven
horses,
liveries
kind
of
coach,
it
had
grain
and
hay
storage.
On
the
second
floor,
with
the
very
humble
little
living
quarters
up
there
and
at
some
point
at
the
turn
of
the
century,
I
think
it
was
abandoned.
There's
a
couple
of
permits
that
have
been
submitted
for
use
as
storage
as
a
garage
I
think
in
2006.
N
N
This
is
Dempster
Street.
The
barn
is
located
behind
these
two
attached
residences,
it's
surrounded
and
has
a
zero
lot
line
by
alleys
and
the
east
west,
on
the
north
and
on
the
south
portions,
so
it's
surrounded
by
four
alleys.
So
that's
a
challenge
just
for
us
for
utilities
and
all
that,
but
we're
working
through
that
there's
really
no
change
to
any
zoning
issues.
We
are
maintaining
everything
within
the
footprint.
N
This
is
the
existing
first
floor.
It's
divided.
We
have
you'll
seen
elevations
an
existing
garage
door
in
the
what
we're
calling
the
front
and
exists
join
the
rear.
The
horses
were
kept
here
and
then
this
was
kind
of
maintenance
area,
I'm
sure
I'm,
not
quite
sure,
but
kind
of
divided.
That
way,
the
second
floor
you
had
stairs
coming
out
to
the
low
living
quarters.
This
is
a
beautifully
lofted
space
about
24
feet
tall
and
then
this
was
a
little
hay
chute
and
then
a
grain
bin.
We
believe
here
the
roof.
N
These
are
showing
proposed
skylight
locations,
but
it's
a
hip
with
a
gable
and
roof.
The
roof
isn't
exist,
has
an
asphalt
rolled
paper
on
it,
our
proposed,
which
will
help
kind
of
illustrate
and
explain
what
we're
doing
on
the
exterior.
What
we're
doing
is
we're
defining
the
residence
by
keeping
where
the
horses
were,
as
our
garage
will
have
a
turn
around
in
here
to
get
back
out
and
then
we'll
add
a
second.
So
this
is
existing
garage
door,
existing
man
door.
N
We
will
we're
proposing
to
add
another
man
door
here
to
get
to
the
primary
residence
with
a
quarter
living
and
the
first-floor
utilities
and
then
stairs
up,
and
then
this
is
a
glass
wall
to
see
the
cars.
On
the
second
floor,
just
real
quick,
you
come
up.
You
have
a
common
living
space
with
a
kitchen
laundry
pantry.
N
We
have
a
bedroom
with
a
bathroom
and
then
they
guest
the
master
bedroom
suite
here
with
a
little
lofted
area
with
the
spiral
stair.
So
the
low
lofted
area
is
kind
of
defined
here,
with
the
low
spiral
start
coming
up
the
roof.
One
of
the
issues
we've
worked
with
Anthony
Romano
from
the
Illinois
Historic
Preservation
Committee,
to
get
status,
which
we
have
got
a
preliminary
approval
from
with
two
caveats
which
I'll
address
in
my
presentation.
You'll
probably
have
the
same
issues
hopefully
and
all
will
be
good.
N
But
what
we're
suggesting
right
now
and
I've
worked
with
Anthony
on
this,
because
it's
an
asphalt
road
roof,
which
we
don't
want
to
keep
as
our
primary
we're
trying
to
work.
What
material
is
best
I
have
a
sample
of
what
he
suggested
and
what
we've
have
accepted
as
our
material
and
I'll
go
through
that
once
we
get
through
the
elevations.
N
This
is
just
a
quick
section,
showing
the
quarters
a
little
X
on
so
showing
kind
of
what
our
impact
on
the
existing
structure
will
be.
Here's
our
existing
elevation
and
then
our
proposed.
N
We
are
restoring
all
existing
wood
windows
who
are
restoring
all
existing
garage
doors,
man
doors
in
a
fee
areas
we're
adding
a
window
up
in
the
loft
here
which
will
be
this
is
that
area
here
and
we
are
removing
this
window
and
we
will
repurpose
this
on
the
other
elevation
you'll,
see
maintaining
this
window
and
adding
this
door
that
will
get
us
into
the
primary
residence.
This
door
goes
into
the
garage
area.
This
is
our
garage
door
which
will
be
restored
here.
You'll
see
the
metal
shingle,
the
North
elevation.
N
The
existing
has
the
series
of
really
wonderful,
small
little
punch
windows
with
these
segmented
arch
and
then
at
some
point.
They
added
this
window
and
you
can
still
see
the
segmented
arch
above
I'm.
So
sorry,
so
this
is
the
existing.
What
you
can
see
the
arches
here
and
the
two
windows
that
they
punched
in
so
in
the
outline,
shows
where
those
who
are
we're
going
to
restore
that
original
elevation
by
bringing
those
punch,
windows
back,
maintaining
this
window
and
maintaining
all
the
other
windows
the
skylights
were
proposing,
just
because
the
space
is
so
voluminous.
N
It
looks
like
we
have
a
lot
of
windows
about
for
the
space.
It's
very
dimly
lit.
What
their
caveat
is,
and
I
will
agree
is
that
this
window
is
the
one
area
that
is
seen
from
Dempster,
so
they
recommend
Anthony
recommended
that
skylight,
which
you
know
we
will
approve.
You
know,
that's
not
an
issue
to
us.
They
did
not
have
an
issue
with
these
two
skylights
and
then
the
ones
that
wraparound
on
the
West
elevation.
N
We
have
the
existing
garage
door
again,
which
we
will
be
restoring
we're
restoring,
thus
restoring
the
windows
here.
The
difference
that
we
have
on
this
side
is
our
kitchen.
That's
here,
so
we're
maintaining
this
one
now
and
then
including
two
more
windows
on
the
other
side,
just
to
bring
some
natural
light
in
a
tough
part
of
this
is
because
we're
in
a
zero
light.
We
have
no
place
for
the
condenser
unit,
so
working
with
Anthony.
We
have
this
Gable
and
that
we're
resetting
to
put
our
condenser
units.
N
So
if
I
can
just
go
back,
real
quick
you'll
see
that
in
section.
So
that's
right
here,
so
we
have
this
gable
hip
with
a
gable
end.
So
we're
creating
a
little
platform
out
there.
So
it's
out
of
view
from
most
you
have
to
be
like
on
a
balcony
of
a
building
across
to
see
that
he
was
happy
with
that
location.
We
feel
that
it
kind
of
provides
the
required.
You
know,
condenser,
you
know
forest
without
impacting
this
structure.
So
you'll
see
that
here,
here's
our
two
little
skylights
here
and
then
on
the
South
elevation.
N
It's
a
newer
technology
that
my
client
is
very
interested
in,
so
before
that's
approved
by
them.
They
want
to
see
some
application
of
it,
and
you
know
we
agree
with
that
I'm
just
going
through
where
there's
we're
restoring
all
existing
wood
windows
in
the
two
that
were
adding,
which
we
are
up
at
the
the
kitchen,
will
be
wood
in
kind
to
match
the
Pella
architectural
reserve
series,
so
we
were
able
to
match
all
the
details,
I
just
real
quick.
N
This
is
the
existing
it's
hard
to
get
a
straight
on
shot
because
your
your
ad
garages
so
view
from
the
northwest
corner
south
east.
So
all
these
things
have
really
wonderful
little
diagonal
details
on
them
that
you
can't
see,
but
it's
just
a
beautiful
unit,
a
day,
I'm
sure
it's
very
beautiful
for
such
a
utilitarian
building.
Here's
where
that
balcony
will
will
be
behind
these
doors.
N
You
can
kind
of
see
the
diagonals
which
are
wonderful,
and
then
this
is
just
showing
where
we
are
with
the
shingle,
the
solar
shingles
here-
and
these
are
the
two
new
windows
and
our
condenser
unit
up
above
we're
not
providing
any
screen
in
front
of
that.
We
thought
there
would
be
at
night
and
it's
a
maintenance
nightmare,
so
we're
just.
He
agreed
just
to
leave
that
open.
N
These
should
be
rendered
black,
so
just
so
the
skylights
are
black
I
sent
you
the
wrong
with
the
the
wrong
rendering
on
those,
then
here's
the
restored
elevation,
North
elevation-
and
this
is
a
up
close
picture
of
what
the
Tesla
solar
shingles
look
like
their
application,
installation
detail
and
then
just
again
this
is
just
from
their
brochures.
I
don't
have
any
actual
photographs
of
it.
N
This
is
the
shingle,
it's
a
metal
shingle
that
he
approve.
You
know
we
went
we
talked
about.
Do
we
do
wood
shake
which
was
not
appropriate
for
that
structure?
A
standing
scene
was
not
appropriate
and
asphalt.
Shingle
definitely
wasn't
appropriate.
So
this
is
the
one
that
he
suggested.
Anthony
Ruben,
oh
and
I-
can
pass
this
around.
If
you
don't
want
to
it
has
a
very
you
know:
it's
really
seen
from
a
distance
you're,
really
not
having
a
strong
relationship
with
the
roofing
material,
and
we
were
hesitant
to
go
with
this.
N
A
N
It
depends
on
how
you
define
where
it
would
be
the
rear
from
the
address
location
for
us.
It's
the
side,
we're
looking
at
the
e
says
our
front,
but
it
is
the
rear,
and
you
truly
can't
you
know
it's
all
alleyway,
so
the
most
prominent
corner
you
see
is
the
north
east
corner
from
Dempster.
Is
that
proxy.
N
N
N
Know
the
Tesla's
shingles
are
more
horizontal
in
their
proportions
and
this
has
a
more
standard
shake
proportion
to
it,
I
think
from
a
distance.
You
know,
with
the
coloring
you're
just
gonna
see
a
horizontal
line
defining
both
of
those
roof
lines
and
that
coloring
is
going
to
be.
As
close,
you
know,
the
Tesla
is
our
charcoal
or
darker
charcoal
so
you'll
get
that
strong.
That's
a
very
strong
horizontal
without
very
strong
vertical.
N
That's
the
same
attesa
Tesla
there
I'm
sure
there'll
be
again,
I,
don't
quite
know,
but
I'm
assuming
the
widths
or
the
heights
of
that
exposure
may
or
may
not
be
as
sympathetic
to
each
other
as
I'm
hoping.
But
you
know,
you're,
never
gonna
really
see
the
two
corners
next
to
each
other.
You
know
it's
gonna,
be
it's
such
a
you'll,
never
see
that
South
elevation,
I
guess,
is
my
strongest
point.
There.
A
B
N
I
know
we're
in
what
we
found.
You
know
we
want
to
be
I
mean
it's
such
a
beautiful
I
mean
it
must
have
been
a
beautiful
structure,
so
we
want
to
honor
that
structures
we're
doing
everything
we
can
to
honor
that
structure.
That's
just
a
hard
thing
to
it's
been
a
tough
one
to
kind
of
kind
of
problem-solve
like
what
is,
and
that's
where
we,
you
know,
he'd
the
gentleman
mr.
Urbano
came
up
with
this
as
what
he
felt
was
the
closest
thing
that
would
be
sympathetic
to
the
age
I'm
with
you.
B
Wonder
whether
they
I
don't
know
what
they
would
have
had
as
as
roofing
material
back
then
I'm
not
sure
it
would
have
been
wood,
shingles
necessarily
on
a
barn
but
I'm
sure
we
see
barns.
That
way,
it's
kind
of
a
brick
bar.
It's
you
know
brick
Byron
is.
It
was
really
a
brick
garage
from
what
you
read
in
the
in
the
in
the
original.
You
know
the
historic
analysis
of
it.
Yeah.
N
You
can
see
the
the
roof
seems
very
it's
the
nice
thing,
nothing
nice,
but
the
advantage
is
that
it's
not
a
strong
presence.
That
roof
is
not.
You
know
it's
it's
worth
considering
and
heavily
considering.
But
to
me
it's
it's,
it's
not
making
the
statement
as
it
does
in
the
elevations
when
you're
truly
seeing
the
building.
You
know
in
in
real
time,
yeah
I.
A
A
A
This
is
I
mean
in
this
couple
of
things.
This
is
a
far
less
visually
obtrusive
solution.
I
might
make
points
in
the
other
direction
and
I
mean.
B
D
N
B
N
O
N
Aesthetically
I,
like
it
better
I,
feel
it's
there's
an
intrinsic
worth
to
a
standing,
seam
metal,
roof
I,
don't
talk
against
something
I'm
showing,
but
those
are
the
same
issues.
I
had
I,
don't
like
to
do
something
I'm
saying
if
you're
gonna
do
something
do
the
true
way
of
doing
it,
this
kind
of
goes
half
steps,
I've.
B
N
I
would
say
this
I
would
want
to
advocate
for
what
he's
suggesting,
because
we
are
trying
he's
we're
trying
to
get
on
the
Illinois
that
status
and
so
I'm,
balancing
both
right
both
commissions
and
that's,
a
very
important
one
for
my
client
also
is
to
get
that
so
we're
working
hand-in-hand
with
him.
Also,
if.
N
N
Don't
know,
we've
done
a
tour
of
that
with
them
I've
spent
days
with
them.
You
know,
but,
and
that's
all
been
a
prevention
in
the
letter
you'll
see
that
the
interior
they're
kind
of
not
thrown
by
this,
but
it's
a
unique
project
to
them
also
and
for
them
the
interior
is
not
a
relevant
point
yeah
to
their
judgment
on
this
one.
What.
G
N
And
I've:
that's
why
I
wanted
to
make
sure
that
whatever
we
submit
to
you
was
first
approved
by
them.
I
didn't
want
to
go
backwards
and
they
do
have
I
mean
all
just
it's
interesting
I,
don't
know
if
I
should
be
bringing
this
up
but
I'll
Sabrina,
because
it's
something
that
some
is
that
the
way
that
the
only
noise
state
looks
at
this
is
like
demand
or
that
we're
adding
they
want
it
to
look
different
than
the
original.
They
don't
want
you
to
reproduce
something.
That's
not
original,
whereas
I
know.
N
N
M
Just
gonna
say
that,
and
the
roofing
I
can
kind
of
see
where
they're
coming
from
in
that
there
could
be
other
things
that
we
could
speculate
may
have
been
used
on
something
like
this,
but
I
think
this,
along
with
the
Tesla,
will
read
as
kind
of
the
kind
of
monogamous.
You
know
that
in
this
you
know,
gray,
that.
O
A
N
A
K
I
move
to
issue
a
certificate
of
appropriateness;
two
three:
eighteen
and
a
half
Dempster
Street
to
restore
all
existing
wood
windows,
garage,
barn
and
man,
doors
and
soffit
to
install
a
new
wood
entry
door
in
the
east
elevation
and
windows.
At
the
second
floor
on
the
West
elevation,
a
new
metal
shingle
roofing
on
the
north
east
and
west
roofs
and
a
new
solar
shingle
roof
on
the
south
roof
install
new
skylights
and
a
new
air
conditioning
unit
at
the
recess
west
gable,
applicable
standards
include
alteration
one
through
ten.
A
B
G
J
G
N
N
O
O
Thank
you.
Opportunity
presents
some
ideas
here
and
it's
a
it's
just
cool
to
work
on
a
house
that
has
drawings
from
Burnham
and
route
that
draw
like
signed
with
Burnham
in
route,
and
it's
it's
a
beautiful
old,
lady
and
she's
in
pretty
good
shape
of
like
most
old
home.
She
needs
a
little
bit
of
work
in
the
kitchens
and
master
bedroom
and
mud
rooms.
Those
kind
of
things
are
lacking
in
older
homes.
O
To
that
end,
we're
adding
a
small
addition
at
the
rear
of
the
home
for
a
mud,
room,
master
bedroom
extension
and
a
kitchen
extension
and
burner
man
root,
initially
a
plan
for
a
wraparound
porch
and
the
drawings
that
that
they
were
found
in
the
basement
on
the
front
and
the
east
side.
The
current
home
has
only
the
covered
front
porch,
which
was
leveling
restored
in
1998.
O
The
new
owners
wish
to
bring
back
the
wraparound,
porch
and
side.
Stair
and
porches
are
a
wonderful
opportunity
for
signs
of
life
and
welcome,
which
is
kind
of
a
hallmark
of
Evanston
and
all
again,
all
visit
windows
will
remain
and
doors
will
remain.
The
windows
that'll
be
on
the
back,
which
you
can't
see
will
match
existing
in
every
every
aspect,
as
we
possibly
can
and
I'll
add
a
materials.
Of
course,
my
actually
existing
and
the
rendering
I
think
which
you
have
best,
illustrates
our
intentions
and
do
I
have.
O
So
there's
the
existing
front
porch
and
the
original
general,
a
wraparound
porch,
fairly
close
to
the
size
original
Bay,
was
a
little
bit
smaller.
Then
you
can
see
just
some
pencil
marks.
They
drew
it
on
bigger
Bay
and
then
the
steer
came
down
off
the
center
of
that
Bay
we're
also
getting
that
around
the
backside.
So
he
slides
a
lot
of
3-foot
walkway
to
get
down
this
type
to
the
side
yard.
Here
they
really
have
no
back
yard.
So
this
is
kind
of
their
player.
O
O
There's
this
it
just
is
fascinating
to
see
that
what
this
stuff
was
like
back
then
so,
there's
the
existing
front,
porch,
giving
this
wraparound
porch
here
the
dining
room
stays
just
as
it
is
here
dish
and
back
in
here
for
a
mud
room,
a
little
banquette
for
eating
and
then
the
kitchen
back
in
here
cocking
up
the
pantries
and
kind
of
chopped
up
kitchen.
That's
there
now
second
floor
again,
look
at
the
addition,
which
is
here's
for
the
mudroom
extension.
The
bathroom
goes
in
an
existing
Bay
they're,
a
little
back
deck.
O
The
self-elevation,
which
is
which
is
the
street
elevation,
that's
the
existing
covered
porch
and
we
tend
to
wrap
that
around
with
the
side
porch
there
we
found
these.
These
details
are
on
the
Burnham
plans,
exactly
what
the
railings
look
like.
The
porch
looked
like
the
siding
and
screened
openings
below
they're,
all
on
the
Burnham
drawings,
that's
existing
West
with
the
stone
below
and
then
that
new
with
the
the
Porte
cochere.
That's
your
addition
off
the
back
yeah,
the
only
thing!
That's
right
there,
a
nothing!
O
It's
a
covered
porch
there
now
we're
digging
that
same
space
and
making
it
any
closer.
The
two
floors
there
and
here's
the
existing
East
elevation
with
the
new.
This
is
a
standing
stone
terrace
with
a
metal
rail
and
those
first
stair
here.
We're
gonna
make
that
again
a
terrace
to
match
the
existing
Burnham
drawings
and
run
across
the
Society
of
the
additions
in
the
back
all
these
window.
These
all
they
stay
as
they
were
as
they
are.
O
These
were
either
out
of
which
you
can't
see
those
because
of
this
big
day
that
comes
out
second
floor
stay,
just
as
it
is,
and
there's
really
not
much
new
from
the
well
that
the
back
of
the
house
is
gifting
here
are
taking
that
porch
they're,
adding
it
across
for
a
little
eat-in.
Thank
yet
the
mudroom
and
the
master
bedroom
extension
there
and
we'll
balcony
to
match
the
site
for
it.
Porte
cochere
roof
over
there
and
that's
an
existing
photo
there.
O
O
A
K
To
issue
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
to
217,
Dempster
Street
for
the
restoration
and
expansion
of
an
existing
terrace,
with
a
stair
to
the
side
yard
and
an
expansion
on
the
rear
elevation
of
the
existing
covered.
Porch
lickable
standards
include
alteration
one
through
ten
construction,
one
through
five,
seven,
eight
and
10
through
15
and
demolition.
One
through
six.
A
Signify
by
saying
aye,
everyone
was
in
favor
at
this
time.
Thank
you,
alright.
So
the
last
matter
before
us
is
540
HSN
Avenue,
the
applicant.
My
understanding
is
applying
for
both
permission
to
demolish
the
existing
structure
and
it
also
simultaneously
for
permission
to
construct
a
new
struck,
a
new
house
which
would
involve
an
addition.
I
mean
in
addition
to
Sanders
for
construction,
would
involve
zoning
variations.
A
J
A
Have
any
other
decision
to
make,
but
I
do
think
it'd
be
more
Kooning
to
let
the
applicant
present
their
entire
presentation
both
for
demolition
and
for
the
new
construction.
And
then
why
don't
we
let
member
the
public
who
wish
to
each
speak
for
a
couple
of
minutes
to
the
whole
matter
and
then
we
can
come
back
and
just
start
with
demolition
as
a
commission.
So
if
you
could
introduce
yourself
and
please
proceed
sure.
P
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
My
name
is
Kristy
Lee
from
Turley
architects
on
the
obviously
the
architect
on
this
project.
I
have
my
clients
here:
Maria
Anna,
Maria,
nanos
and
Lynn
Bruskin,
and
we
are.
This
is
actually
kind
of
an
odd
experience
for
me
because
I've
been
in
this
profession
for
35
years
and
I've
done
a
lot
of
renovation
of
bungalows
and
all
kinds
of
older
buildings,
and
this
is
the
first
time
I've
actually
worked
through
a
process
where
we
resulted
in
recommending
that
a
building
be
torn
down.
P
The
lot
is
under
sized
because
of
that,
so
it's
we're
well
under
the
total
amount
of
square
footage,
so
we're
not
just
narrow
we're
also
short
and
so
for
an
r1
with
a
five
foot
setback.
On
top
of
that
we
really
are
kind
of
crammed
in,
and
so
the
existing
building
right
now
incurs
into
the
side
yards,
and
it
also
is
very
difficult
to
actually
lay
out
in
a
renovation.
So
I'll
go
over
that
in
a
minute,
and
then
there
is
that
that
is
the
sort
of
the
the
pre-existing
hardships
that
occurred.
P
The
there
is
a
financial
element
of
it.
Wherein
is
we
found
that
it
was
very
difficult
to
either
repair
renovate
or
add
on
to
it
in
such
a
way
that
it
would
would
not
be
a
building
that
was
unsellable
on
the
market.
It
would
be
well
over
a
multiple
of
what
is
currently
available
as
a
similar
home
following
each
of
those
phases.
So
we
looked
at
several
things
we
looked
at.
The
first
option
was:
do
nothing
just
sort
of
paint
the
place
sell,
it
move
into
it.
P
P
There's
been
no
major
renovation,
no
additions,
no
upgrading
of
any
of
the
mechanicals
electrical
plumbing
anything,
and
so
the
building
has
been
sort
of
not
ignored
so
much
as
just
weathering
and
Aging
in
place,
and
so
we
found
that
there
is
just
a
lot
of
issues
that
need
to
be
dealt
with.
The
gable
roof
return,
which
we'll
talk
about
in
a
second
is
sagging.
The
front
and
rear
bays
are
actually
pulling
away
from
the
structure
we
have
water
infiltration
and
rot
coming
through
on
the
siding.
P
P
So
what
we
know
is
that
we're
going
to
have
to
do
some
major
work
on
those
on
those
foundations
and
probably
underpinned
them
and
encase
them
in
concrete
or
replace
them
entirely
and
as
far
as
the
the
front
and
rear
bays
those
don't
have
basement.
There
is
no
to
the
foundations
for
that,
so
that's
a
we
would
have
to
pin
the
building
and
then
somehow
excavate
and
underneath
that
replace
everything
and
put
that
leave
the
building
back
or
replace
the
whole
you
know
and
with
a
duplicate.
P
So
what
we
started
seeing
was
that
there's
some
major
major
repairs
and
that
would
that
would
be
hundreds
of
thousands
of
dollars
and
the
result
would
be
a
building
that
was
a
two-bedroom
two-bath,
and
so
we
would
find
that
we
would
be
priced
out
of
any
kind
of
market.
Now
my
clients
intend
on
living
there.
P
This
is
going
to
be
their
home,
but
it
would
at
some
point
it's
going
to
have
to
go
out
on
the
market
and
so
or
be
competitive
in
some
way,
and
so
the
expectation
is
that
the
cost
of
the
building
would
be
over
repairs,
renovations
or
additions
would
be
so
high
for
such
a
limited
building
that
there
was
no
way
to
recover
anything
near
that.
So
we
didn't
see
that
as
a
vial,
op
viable
option
of
sort
of
repair
or
do
nothing.
P
What
we
found
was
that
the
the
housing
on
the
market
right
now
averages
out
at
about
385
for
that
model
and
our
renovation
cost
addition
cost
or
add-on
cost
alone,
exceed
that
sometimes
by
half
again
as
much,
and
it
doesn't
give
us
any
value
for
the
actual
land.
So
it
was
a
substantial
increase
in
the
cost.
And
then
we
looked
at
some
of
the
other
elements
that,
as
we
put
on
additions,
would
also
come
up.
P
So
we
looked
at
what
are
so
and
then
we
looked
at
the
new
construction.
What
we
found
was
that
the
new
construction
was
actually
the
most
cost
effective
way
of
doing
it,
and
it
actually
got
the
building
to
be
in
its
most
viable
or
the
property
and
its
most
viable
function
and
financial
model,
and
so
we
developed
that
with
a
you
know,
looking
at
the
historic
preservation
and
with
the
neighbors
and
everything
else,
and
that
was
actually
where
we
ended
up
with
this.
P
With
this
design
study,
we
looked
at
the
objections
that
people
might
have,
because
we
were
very
present
to
them
ourselves,
and
one
is.
This
is
a
historic
district.
You
know
and
whether
you
know
we
started
looking
at
whether
we
felt
that
you
know
as
the
first
step
whether
we
felt
that
the
the
elements
within
this
building
really
were
related
to
historic
or
president
is
something
that
needs
to
be
preserved,
and
we
found
that
that
the
the
building
was
reviewed
twice
for
the
historic.
P
P
And
so
the
three
elements
I
think
there
are
some
better
pictures
of
these,
but
I
will
show
them.
This
way
was
a
returned
end
on
the
gable.
You
could
see
it
a
little
bit
right.
There
I'm,
not
sure
why
that
images
like
that,
but
a
return
in
on
the
gable,
the
front
bay
and
then
the
I
think
they're,
eight
plus
one
windows
on
the
front,
and
so
we
started
looking
at
that
and
we
started
looking
at
the
style
of
the
building
to
see
if
it
if
we
felt
that
it
was
contributing.
P
We
looked
at
the
style.
We
looked
at
the
significance
of
the
building
in
the
context
of
the
neighborhood,
we
looked
at
those
three
historic
elements
and
what
we've?
What
we
found
was
that
the
there
were
three
buildings
that
were
built.
Originally,
one
of
them
has
already
been
modified
and
added
on
to
the
other.
Two,
as
we
said,
are
still
in
close
to
their
original
form.
P
We
didn't
feel
like
those
three
elements
were
in
themselves,
indicative
of
any
particular
style
that
they
worked
cohesively
as
a
style
that
indicated
some
new
idea
or
some
new
expression,
and
we
thought
that
it
was
something
that
is
actually
still
being
built.
It's
kind.
Each
of
these
elements
are
still
commonly
available,
so
we
didn't
see
the
historical
aspect
of
it.
P
The
building
is
essentially
at
the
maximum
right
now
maximum
footprint
and
so
and
we
can't
go
down.
We
looked
at
going
into
the
basement
to
see
if
we
could
put
more
livable
space
down
there
and
because
we're
already
over
the
side
yards,
we
can't
put
any
windows
in.
We
can't
put
any
Wells
and
window
wells
in.
We
can't
really
get
the
egress
that
we
need
and
we
would
have
to
lower
the
floor
again,
and
so
it
just
generates
a
whole
different,
different
set
of
issues.
So
we
started
looking
at
it.
P
We
looked
at
the
impact
on
the
neighbors
and
what
we
looked
at
was
in
any
scenario,
there's
going
to
be
a
major
impact
on
the
neighbors.
We
have
to
replace
or
repair
the
front
Bay,
and
so,
if
the
front
Bay
has
to
be
temporarily
supported
or
torn
down,
then
the
garden
and
the
of
the
neighbor
to
the
south
has
a
garden
attached,
I
believe
to
the
building
and
some
other
things
attached
to
my
clients.
Building
those
are
going
to
have
to
be
removed
anyway,
and
so
in
order
to
execute
that
construction.
P
P
P
Work
to
the
north
has
already
changed
the
nature
of
the
three
buildings.
We've
already
that's
already
happened.
The
city
has
already
had
several
opportunities
to
put
this
down
as
a
historic
building
and
chose
not
to.
We
don't
feel
that
the
three
elements
are
unique
to
this
building
in
that
neighborhood,
or
that
it's
unique
historically
that
they're
still
being
built.
P
The
economics
will
not
improve
over
time.
The
longer
we
wait,
the
harder
it
will
be
to
economically
renovate
this
building
I
think
we
believe
that
a
new
building
restores
to
the
neighborhood
a
lot
of
the
elements
there
already
that
are
present,
and
that
would
be
magnified.
So
we
would
have
a
fully
functioning
building
for
a
family.
P
We
would
have
a
coach
house
on
the
back
for
an
ad
you
at
accessory
dwelling
unit
that
helps
both
with
the
finances,
but
we
believe
the
vitality
of
the
neighborhood
as
well,
and
we
think
that
it's,
it
will
be
just
it
will
enhance
the
neighborhood.
It's
actually
a
little
narrower,
it's
the
same
footprint
as
the
current
building
and
it
is
taller,
but
that
height
of
the
building,
as
you
can
see
from
the
graphic
and
that
graphic,
is
also
available.
I.
P
Forgotten
which
one
to
push
now
there
we
go,
that
graphic
is
also
available
in
the
set,
that
is
the
the
new
building
and
the
footprint.
You
can
actually
see
that
the
footprint
is
actually
similar
to
the
existing
footprint,
and
so,
of
course,
the
logical
question
is:
why
not
keep
the
existing
building
and
it's
for
a
few
reasons
one
is
the
foundations
can't
take.
P
In
addition,
the
second
is
that
it's,
if
we're
going
to
build,
if
we
were
to
renovate
and
try
to
reuse
it,
we
would
have
to
gut
and
raise
the
roof
in
order
to
get
a
second
floor
on
there.
Just
simply
isn't
enough
floor
space
to
get
all
the
functions
that
we
would
normally
see
in
a
building
like
this,
we're
just
able
to
be
a
lot
more
efficient.
P
P
This
is
the
garage
in
the
adjacent
buildings
in
this
building
to
the
north
has
had
an
addition
put
on
the
rear.
The
neighborhood
has
quite
a
few
eclectic
buildings
and
some
tall
ones.
This
is
the
building
on
the
north
corner,
it's
quite
large,
and
then
we
have
a
variety
of
buildings
on
the
on
both
sides
of
the
block
that
are
quite
tall
and
I'll
get
into
this
graphic
in
a
second.
P
So
this
is
the
building.
This
is
our
new
design
for
the
existing
building.
This
is
the
adjacent
north
building.
I
have
shown
the
heights
here.
You
could
say
I
wasn't
sure
if
this
was
going
to
be
clear
enough,
so
I
brought
this
graphic.
It's
the
same.
It's
the
same
drawing
but
I
showed
what
the
actual
height
is
related
to
the
facade
of
our
building
is
this
addition
back
here
is
pushed
back,
so
it
looks
like
it's
lower
than
it
actually
is.
P
This
is
the
height
of
the
adjacent
building
to
the
south.
This
is
the
height
of
this.
Is
the
limit
the
35
foot
limit
for
the
r-1
district,
we're
actually
about
six
inches
under
it.
This
is
the
tallest
building,
so
next
to
the
south,
the
building
to
our
south
is
this
Italianate
building
that
has
that's
the
tallest
one
on
the
block
other
than
the
apartment
building
towards
the
north,
and
when
you
look
at
that
and
I'll
give
you
this
graphic
here.
Q
Q
I'm
sorry
I
have
a
little
bit
of
a
cold
which
is
aunt
Stella,
who
Chris
mentioned
some
of
you
may
have
met
her
in
the
community.
I
realize
your
focus
is
the
property
itself,
the
structure,
the
bricks,
the
shingles.
Allow
me
to
introduce
you
to
the
life,
the
family
and
the
love
that
happened
at
five.
Four
eight
Judson
this
home
was
built
when
aunt
Stella
was
born
in
1918.
Q
She
was
born
in
Michigan
and
lived
her
life
in
Rogers
Park
in
Chicago.
She
was
a
first
generation
Greek
and
talked
about
her
childhood
playing
in
those
vast
fields,
west
of
McCormick
Street,
which
were
literally
fields
when
she
was
a
kid
that's
when
this
house
was
born
built.
Rather,
she
collected
insects
and
rode
horses
with
two
of
her
brothers,
one
of
whom
is
my
father.
These
homes
were
built
from
what
she
told
us.
They
were
beach,
houses
quote
unquote,
they
were
for
the
people
in
the
city
who
wanted
to
go
to
the
country
in
Evanston.
Q
It's
a
vacation
in
their
Beach
home
five
for
eight
has
two
bedrooms:
one
small
room
they
use
as
a
bedroom
and
two
bathrooms.
There's
no
air
conditioning
a
very
small
garage,
a
galley
kitchen.
There
was
an
upstairs
that
only
kids
could
use
at
the
time
because
the
ceiling
heights
only
about
five
feet,
two
inches
I,
probably
don't
have
to
tell
you,
as
Chris
mentioned
somebody
purchased
these
two
Lots
and
split
them
into
three,
so
many
city
families
could
enjoy
their
summer,
and
that
was
a
long
time
ago.
Q
Both
neighbors
on
either
side
have
renovated
their
homes.
The
one
to
the
north
is
a
four-bedroom
three-bath
one
to
the
south
is
a
four-bedroom
which
includes
a
full
rental
unit.
In
her
basement,
the
neighbors
have
moved
their
properties
into
a
more
code,
compliant
and
comfortable
home
I'm,
slightly
embarrassed
to
say
nothing
has
really
been
changed
or
updated,
and
in
Stella's
home
for
probably
70
years,
the
doorways
are
very
narrow.
Walls
are
cracked,
the
kitchen's
not
functional,
but
it
works.
It's
probably
the
smallest
oven,
you've
ever
seen
and
I
invite
you
to
come.
Look
at
it.
Q
The
layout
is
a
little
awkward,
but
we
love
that
house
and
Stella
moved
in
in
1957
with
the
original
owner
whose
family
purchased
the
home
in
1920
in
the
20s
and
Stella
had
a
humble
but
magnificent
career
at
the
University
of
Illinois
working
as
a
Saito
technologist,
especially
with
cancer
research.
She
collaborated
with
many
trailblazers
in
the
field
in
the
30s
and
40s.
One
of
her
pals,
as
she
would
say,
was
dr.
Papanicolaou
and
his
work
with
cervical
cancer.
Hence
the
pap
smear
that
was
his
friend
Papanikolaou.
Q
That's
a
little
trivia
question:
y'all
can
use
one
day.
Material
things
were
never
important.
It
was
really
work
and
family.
So
why
do
I
tell
you
about
aunt
Stella
one
because
I
love
to
brag
about
her
and
to
to
explain
to
this
committee
that
this
is
not
just
a
home
that
will
be
a
bit
larger
than
its
immediate
neighbors,
but
it
will
continue
to
live
on
with
the
integrity
and
love
it
deserves.
Q
We
spent
birthdays
weekend's
holidays
and
picnics
at
5:48
Judson.
We
asked
aunt
Stella
to
update
and
renovate
over
the
years,
but
she
liked
things
just
the
way
she
are
just
the
way
they
were.
She
never
wanted
to
leave
that
house
and
thankfully
she
never
did.
We
also
took
care
of
her
until
she
died
in
that
home
in
November
of
2016,
and
she
was
98
years
old
six
months
prior
to
that
she
was
whipping
her
on
in
her
little
car
and
you'd
probably
see
her
over
at
the
Olympics
speaking
Greek
with
Stacey
over
there.
Q
She
wanted
me
and
my
sister
to
have
this
home
and
continue
to
live
and
love
as
she
taught
us
when
you
look
up
and
down
the
street,
there's
no
two
homes
alike.
I'd
want
you
to
do
that.
Take
a
look
two
houses,
as
Chris
mentioned,
is
this
Italianate
style,
which
is
3491
square
feet
in
a
big
garage
people
can
say
this
is
a
quaint
little
house,
and
why
would
we
tear
it
down
and
trust
me
when
I
tell
you
when
we
had?
Q
So
here's
what
we
can
promise
besides,
throwing
the
bus
block
party,
because
I'm
kind
of
an
organizer,
so
I'll
throw
a
big
block
party
that
they
haven't
had
on,
that
500
block
will
maintain
the
integrity
of
civic
pride
will
update
the
home
to
come
into
this
country,
which
will
increase
beauty
and
property
value.
We
need
fresh
and
new
and
Evanston
I'd,
not
insult
this
committee
to
say
it's
a
quaint
home
that
fits
in
this
block
or
in
neighborhood
it's
a
loved
home
that
just
got
too
old
to
fix.
Q
A
A
Thank
you,
okay.
Why
don't
we
give
members
of
the
public
who
it
looks
like
maybe
one
or
two
people
might
have
signed
up
to
speak
about
this
matter,
so
if
you'd
like
to
and
if
I
could
we're
gonna
have
a
have
to
have
a
thorough
discussion
this
matter,
so
if
I
can
just
please
ask
everybody
for
the
courteous
of
keeping
your
presentations.
My.
L
Name
is
Barry
Lippa
and
I'm
here
to
represent
Jerry
Shapiro
a
due
to
unfortunate
circumstances.
Jerry
Shapiro
cannot
be
here,
she's,
the
owner
and
occupant
for
the
past
47
years
of
the
house,
which
is
directly
to
the
south
of
the
subject:
property
she's
opposed
to
the
demolition
of
five
four
eight
judson,
and
also
the
construction
of
the
non-compliant
house
to
replace
it.
L
Her
opposition
is
based
on
the
proposals,
departure
from
the
goals
of
the
lakeshore
historic
district
and
also
from
the
requirements
of
the
zoning
regulation,
I'm
going
to
read
part
of
the
statement
that
she
sent
to
the
Commission
first,
when
I
talked
about
the
demolition
of
the
house
at
5-4,
E
Jetson,
the
subject
house
located
within
the
lakeshore
Starck
district,
is
situated
at
the
center
of
three
identically
constructed
small-scale,
freestanding
wood
frame
structures.
The
demolition
of
five
four
eight
would
undermine
the
architectural
integrity
of
this
trio
of
houses.
L
Consequently,
the
demolition
demolition
will
be
opposed
to
the
goals
of
Historic
District.
No
houses
on
the
block
have
ever
been
demolished.
Other
houses,
including
five,
three,
four,
five,
four,
three,
six,
oh
four,
six,
two
five
etc
have
been
renovated
without
departing
from
the
goals
of
the
lakeshore
stark
district
and
as
a
matter
of
fact,
since
the
establishment
of
the
district,
only
four
houses
in
the
entire
district
have
been
demolished
as
an
alternative
to
demolition
and
new
construction.
L
Five
four
eight
to
be
renovated
without
interfering
with
the
context
and
architectural
integrity
of
the
trio
of
houses
to
represent
a
distinctive
section
of
the
landmark
block
in
Bishop
Eros
opinion
that
demolition
would
establish
an
unfortunate
precedent
that
could
open
the
possibility
to
future
new
out-of-scale
on
character,
district
wide
structures
that
would
undermine
the
goals
of
Historic
District.
Now
I
want
to
talk
about
the
house
that
is
proposed
to
replace
it.
L
Five
for
a
Judson,
Misha,
P
Rose
view
of
the
proposed
non-compliant
house
and
garage
indicates
that
there
wasn't
any
reasonable
attempt
to
design
the
proposed
house
and
garage
to
resemble
the
size
and
character
the
two
adjacent
houses.
On
the
contrary,
the
proposal
is
non-compliant
with
at
least
four
provisions
of
the
zoning
regulations.
It
will
result
in
great
out
of
scale
out
of
character
structures
that
would
dwarf
the
two
adjacent
structures.
Consequently,
the
construction
would
undermine
the
goals
of
the
stork
district.
L
Basically,
the
replacement
structures
exceed
the
provisions
of
the
zoning
regulations
governing
the
lot
coverage
through
our
yard,
the
eaves,
the
sidewalk
patio
separation,
etc.
As
a
consequence,
not
only
with
the
structure
be
too
bulky
for
the
size
of
the
lot,
but
they
also
would
only
be
the
only
buildings
of
this
type
on
the
blog.
Finally,
the
structures
out
of
context
and
out
of
scale
design
would
be
a
parent
to
walkers
by
and
evident
to
the
eye
to
see.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
R
Good
evening
my
name
is
Stella
nanos
I
am
the
namesake
of
aunt
Stella,
nanos
and
I
just
wanted
to
reiterate
what
my
sister
already
said
and
addressed
some
issues
from
the
neighbor
Jerry
to
the
South
regarding
the
sizing
of
the
houses,
they're,
not
identical,
I'm
sure
you've
done
your
due
diligence
and
gone
down
the
block.
None
of
the
houses
are
really
matching
in
style
or
size.
It's
a
very
eclectic
mix
of
homes
in
a
very
unique
block,
including
a
apartment
building
on
the
corner
that
has
maybe
20-plus
units.
R
I
understand
that
Giri
has
done
some
renovations,
including
installing
an
apartment
for
lease
in
her
basement
I'm,
not
sure.
If
that's
legal
or
not,
but
she's
done
that-
and
my
aunt
has
signed-
often
allowed
her
to
encroach
on
the
property
line
being
a
good,
neighbor
and
I'm
sure
there's
records
of
that
that
her
porch
is
actually
on
my
aunt's
property
line.
R
So
I
think
there's
a
little
bit
of
pushback
on
her
regard
just
because
her
house
and
that
house
have
not
really
had
any
changes
because
they're
both
elderly
SH,
they
were
both
elderly
and
they
both
just
didn't,
make
any
changes.
So
I
am
100%
in
favor
of
this
new
building.
I
I
agree
with
my
sister
that
we
will
uphold
the
historic
value
and
appreciate
everything
that
Evanston
offers
and
thank
everyone
for
their
time
and
commitment
to
this
process.
Thank.
S
Hello,
my
name
is
Amy
zan
and
I
own
and
occupy
540
Judson
with
my
spouse
and
I
wanted
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
my
concerns
about
the
proposal
for
548.
My
house
is
two
houses
to
the
south,
and
so
there
are
the
three
little
houses.
This
is
the
middle
property,
we're
talking
about
I'm,
the
next
one
to
the
south.
After
that
trio,
and
so
within
the
lakeshore
historic
district,
it
seems
necessary
to
protect
and
preserve
the
existing
individual
houses
in
order
to
preserve
the
overall
historic
character
of
the
neighborhood.
S
5:48
stands
between
its
adjacent
neighbors
at
five,
forty
six
and
five.
Fifty
as
other
people
have
said,
all
three
are
small
narrow
houses
on
undersized
Lots.
All
three
are
similar
with
low
height
small
facades
and
front
doors
that
enter
from
the
side
rather
than
facing
the
street.
All
three
are
single
family
homes.
S
Regarding
the
proposal
to
demolish
the
existing
house
and
garage
at
5:48,
Judson
demolition
clearly
runs
contrary
to
the
pursuit
of
historic
preservation
and
would
make
a
permanent
change
to
the
block,
our
neighborhood
and
the
historic
district
as
a
whole.
We,
of
course
welcome
new
neighbors
to
our
block,
who
freshen
up
existing
structures
through
renovation,
such
as
at
5:00,
at
6:05
Judson,
and
what
is
now
in
progress
at
612
Judson.
S
If
the
Preservation
Commission
approves
the
applicants
request
to
demolish
the
house
and
garage
at
5:48,
there
are
a
number
of
standards
for
new
construction
that
appeared
to
be
violated
in
the
proposal.
First
is
height,
which
is
the
most
obvious.
The
Italianate
structure
that
was
referred
to
up
there
is
my
house
of
540,
it's
a
landmark
house.
It's
a
historic
house.
It's
on
a
double
lot
of
a
hundred
feet
wide.
So
clearly
it
can
accommodate
a
larger
taller
house.
A
small
partial
lot
of
33
feet
wide,
cannot
accommodate
a
house.
S
It's
35
feet
tall
if
its
neighbors
are
low
in
one
story
buildings.
The
plans
also
include
the
new
two-story
garage
with
a
coach
house
which
is
much
higher
than
the
single-story
garages
on
our
entire
block.
The
other
standards
of
construction
that
appeared
to
be
violated
are
proportion
of
facades
rhythm
and
spacing,
and
structures
on
streets.
The
overall
largeness
of
the
proposed
house
would
disrupt
the
existing
rhythm
of
spacing
on
the
block,
the
rhythm
of
entrance,
porches
and
projections.
S
The
proposed
house
would
have
a
large
tall
flat
facade
with
a
porch
and
stairs
that
stick
out
significantly
farther
toward
the
sidewalk
than
its
neighbors.
The
scale
of
the
structure
of
the
proposed
house
is
way
out
of
proportion
to
its
adjacent
neighbors
and
especially
to
its
undersized
lot
14
the
14th
standard
of
innovative
design.
The
proposed
design
does
not
appear
to
be
innovative.
S
Looking
at
standard
16
for
new
construction
I
would
ask
the
members
of
this
commission
to
please
impose
a
compatibility
requirement
and
request
a
more
appropriate
proposal
in
terms
of
size,
height
style
and
historical
appropriateness,
tearing
down
a
small
house
to
replace
it
with
a
much
larger
one
without
considering
lot
size
or
its
impact
on
the
entire
lakeshore.
Historic
district
would
be
a
danger,
dangerous
precedent
to
set
for
southeast
of
instant.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
very
much
were.
A
A
A
P
P
The
building
needs
some
major
work
done
and
so
in
the
building
that
we're
putting
we're
considering
putting
in
is
narrower
same
same
footprint
and
or
nearly
the
same
footprint,
and
it
is
taller,
there's
no
question,
but
if
you
look
at
the
graphic
that
you're
seeing
there
just
on
that
side
of
the
street,
there
are
a
number
of
buildings,
not
just
the
Italianate
one,
but
a
number
of
buildings
that
are
of
comparable
size
and
there
are
some
across
the
street
as
well.
Thank
you.
A
I
think
we
we
have
enough
information
to
discuss
demolition.
At
least
you
know,
subject
to
anybody
of
any
questions,
I
think
to
seriously
consider
that
proposed
new
home.
We
would
need
I,
think
better
information,
both
as
to
the
proposed
structure,
the
more
detailed
comparison
to
how
it
fits
up
on
the
street
and
then
also
the
zoning
issues.
I,
don't
think
we're
actually
presented
well.
B
I
agree
with
you,
but
what
bothers
me
is
that
if
you
can't
consider
the
new
house
in
terms
of
because
it's
it's
all
one
package
here,
we've
got
the
new
home,
that's
going
to
replace
something.
So
the
only
deal
with
the
demolition
says:
okay,
we're
perfectly
content
to
have
an
empty
I'm.
Sorry
to
exaggerate
to
have
an
empty
lot
for
the
time
being.
Until
someone
considers
how
its
replaced.
It
seems
to
me
that
I
would
rather
have
discussed
what's
going
in
place
of
the
homes
that
so
there
rather
than
let's
replace
the
home.
A
Don't
mean
we
don't
have
to
vote
on
a
decision.
I
was
just
suggesting.
Organizationally
I
mean
it.
If,
if
our
opinion
is
that
we're
not
going
to
approve
demolition
regardless,
then
spending
a
lot
of
time
further
developing
the
plans
and
understanding
them
better
was
not
a
good
use
of
time.
So
I
guess
that's.
The
first
question
is
what
we
could
know
is
if
the
new
plans
were
acceptable,
would
we
consider
government
approving
demolition.
B
G
B
G
From
Tony,
having
indicates
that
is
a
contributing
structure,
but
not
eligible
for
landmark,
designation,
it's
contributing
but
not
eligible
for
lamar
designation,
and
I
think
that
one
thing
to
remember
is
that
the
standards
apply
the
same,
whether
it's
a
landmark
or
not,
in
a
historic
district.
So
there's
no
distinction
between
the
two,
at
least
in
the
ordinance
and
I,
think
the
Commission
has
a
discretion
to
distinguish.
You
know
some
of
the
aspects
of
a
non-contributing
non
significant
structure,
but
in
this
case
the
the
recently
recent
survey
indicates
that
it's
a
contributing
structure.
A
Does
everybody
feel
like
that
they
have
had
an
opportunity
to
I,
mean
I,
know,
I,
went
and
walked
her
in
the
house
and
felt
like
I
gained
a
lot
more
information
about
doing
that
and
was
really
present
for
the
president.
You
know
presented
the
presentations,
so
I
don't
know
if
people
feel
they
need
to
see
it
or
they
need
pictures
of
how
its
situated
in
the
street.
B
A
Not
obligated
I'm
not
suggesting
we
have
to
make
a
decision
without
seeing
the
new
plans,
I'm
saying
that
I
think
we
haven't
made
any
decisions.
We
don't
vote
on
anything
I,
think
for
us
to
seriously
consider
the
new
structure
and
the
zoning
modifications
I
think
the
presentation
would
have
the
applicant
had
to
flesh
out
the
presentation.
A
great
deal.
I
know:
I
didn't
find
the
presentation
sufficient
to
make
that
decision.
It
just
wasn't
nearly
enough
information,
however.
A
D
B
D
A
Generally,
we
we
can
they're
obligated
to
present
the
new
design
only
as
a
tool
for
viewing
the
demolition,
but
anyway,
I
think
I
mean
I
agree
with
the
two
of
you
that
there's
no
reason
we
have
to
decide
demolition,
but
if
most
of
us
feel
the
way
I
think
can
express
that
work.
We
certainly
would
seriously
consider
permitting
demolition,
but
we
need
the
the
plan,
the
plans,
much
more
developed
and
much
better,
put
more
complete
presentation.
Then
I
think
we
should
give
the
applicant
that
guidance,
so
they
can
come
back
with
a
more
complete
presentation.
K
I
agree
that
the
demolition
I,
don't
think,
is
the
major
question.
I
think
not
only
with
maybe
more
information
for
the
presentation.
I
do
think
that
we
can
provide
some
very
I
mean
I.
Think
there's
some
very
strong
reservations
that
we
all
probably
have
on
the
new
design
and
I
do
think.
It's
our
responsibility
to
say
what
we
would
want
in
the
presentation,
but
also
give
guidance
to
those
major
issues
so
that
we
can
at
least
let
them
work
on
all
of
it
as
much
as
possible
before
they
come
back
in
front
of
the
Commission.
G
B
B
It
that
was
the
end
of
my
question,
well,
I
I,
think,
and
it
was
even
brought
up
by
at
least
one
of
the
people
it
came
up
here.
I
think
there
there
is
the
issue
of
proportion
of
the
of
the
facades
and
and
I
think
the
rhythm
of
this
rhythm
on
the
street,
among
other
things,
I
think
when
you
look
at
it.
B
Despite
the
thirty-five
foot,
height
and
I'm,
just
gonna
mention
a
couple
of
things:
there's
a
big
difference
between
the
homes
and
I
think
I
forgot
what
the
address
is
further
to
the
south,
where
they're
much
wider
houses
and
yet
35
feet
hop
high,
so
that
the
proportion
is
much
more
horizontal
where
this
one
is
reading
is
a
very
vertical
structure.
It's
a
very
narrow
tall
buildings
and
if
you
look
at
set
at
that
long
strip
that
we
had
that
board,
you
can
see
that
the
tall
houses
are
much
more
horizontal.
B
Even
some
of
the
lower
houses
tend
to
be
when
you
even
start
like
us
holding
it
all
up,
but
even
if
you
start
at
the
north
end
at
the
apartment,
building
the
first
one
to
the
south,
they
all
have
a
horizontality,
and
this
one
is
is
pretty
much
sticking
up
as
a
much
more
vertical
structure.
It's
not
the
same
kind
of
proportion
as
most
of
the
others.
So
it
is,
you
know,
I'm,
not
even
talking
about
the
one
story,
homes
so
I
think
that
there's
there's
quite
a
difference
there.
B
It's
not
just
the
issue
of
height,
oh
well.
We
stayed
under
the
35
feet,
but
there's
a
lot
of
ways
to
be
under
35
feet
and
and
I.
Think
it's
true
of
some
of
the
others.
The
the
rhythm
on
the
street
and
I'm,
not
clear
at
all
I
have
to
say
looking
at
the
drawings,
I'm,
not
sure
about
material
that
wasn't
very
clear
at
all
and
I
think
even
the
level
of
detailing
I
think
you
know,
mark
you
even
indicated
about
fleshing
it
out.
B
A
D
D
In
in
rethinking
kind
of
what
the
design
of
the
new
house
would
be,
I'd
really
call
your
attention
to
standard
one
height
and
it's
written
as
it
should
be
compatible
with
the
essentially
the
properties
to
which
is
visually
related.
And
while
the
block
as
a
whole
is
obviously
very
eclectic
and
there's
a
lot
of
variety,
its
strongest
relationship
is
going
to
be
to
the
two
relatively
low
structures
that
are
directly
in
very
close
proximity
to
it.
D
On
the
north
and
south
standard
to
proportion
of
facades,
I
think
Elliott
said
that
really
well
and
I'd
also
look
in
particular
at
standard
10,
the
overall
scale
and
mass
of
the
structure
relative
to
again
to
the
two
houses
in
close
proximity
and
then
separate
from
that.
Looking
at
the
zoning
variations
that
were
requested,
I
really
think
you
need
to
take
a
hard
look
at
what
building
a
compliant
house
in
terms
of
lot
coverage
and
impervious
surfaces
would
look
like
I.
I
Just
a
quick
update
on
that
text,
amendment
regarding
accessory
dwelling
units
and
coach
houses
was
introduced
last
night.
The
City
Council
will
be
back
for
action
in
January
and
if
it's
approved,
a
third
parking
space
would
not
be
required
for
properties
within
1500
feet
of
transit,
which
would
include
this
property
so
that,
if
that's
approved,
and
that
that
variation
would
not
be
required.
B
I
also
understand
that
if
you
said
that's
a
future
coach
house
and
never
finished
the
upstairs,
you
never
actually
have
to
put
in
the
third
spot.
Sorry
to
leave
that
as
an
opening
before
you
put
it
I'm
just
selling
I
I
went
through
that
with
Melissa
on
something
I'm
working
on.
That's.
Why
I'm
not
sure
if
you
agree
with
that
interpretation,
I.
K
Just
a
cannon,
Eliot
I've
obviously
gone
through
a
lot
of
the
major
standards
and
and
what
we
are
looking
for
for
more
compliance
between
the
heights
and
the
proportions,
I
think
and
to
expand
on
what
Mark.
What
you
had
said
before
with
the
presentation
and
how
much
information
and
is
that
I
think
in
it
would
be
very
helpful
to
either
have
a
rendering
that
is
a
3d
rendering
with
the
adjacent
homes
modeled
as
well.
K
So
we
can
really
see
how
the
masses
fit
together
in
context
or,
if
you'd
prefer
to
do
a
model
with
the
adjacent
properties
or
the
block
of
some
sort.
I
think
either.
One
of
those
tools
is.
It
really
helps
us
understand
how
the
massey
n--'s
work
together
and
how
the
proportions
work
together.
So
in
the
idea
that
we're
gonna
have
this
continued
and
that
you're
going
to
come
back.
If
you
can
bring
that
information
back
I
think
it
would
help
us
understand
your
volumes
and
your
masses
in
relation
to
these
standards.
I.
A
Think
the
new
construction
and
very
eclectic
blocks
is
obviously
challenging.
I
mean
having
you
know,
again,
walked
up
and
down
the
block
a
few
times.
The
home
sex
store
are
one
referent
but
they're.
You
know
closed
out
the
other
houses
across
the
street
and
a
little
further
away.
Our
other
reference,
which
I
think
are
you.
A
Valid
and
we
debate
these
points
and-
and
you
know,
I-
think
the
you
know-
I'm
not
I
mean
I-
think
the
house
is
more
similar
to
other
houses
on
the
block,
not
the
ones
next
door
and
I
guess
those
are.
You
know
both
valid
considerations
and
arguments,
but
I
think
you
have
to
develop.
That
I.
Think
it's
hard
for
us.
I
mean
you've,
heard
different
people's
concerns,
but
I
think
it
probably
is
hard
for
us
to
really
react
without
a
much
more
defined
plan
and
a
much
more
defined
presentation
it.
A
J
A
Think
if
you
want
to
do
that,
that
it
needs
to
be,
you
know,
thought
through
your
your
well-advanced
plans
and
a
presentation-
and
you
know
with
the
eclectic
song
on
the
block-
is
always
challenging.
There's
just
different
arguments
that
can
be
made,
and
you
know
you've
got
to
make
a
good
presentation.
M
Mark
Ken
referenced
I
mean
we're
always
going
off
the
standards
and
and
can
reference
the
standard
six
or
a
demolition
which
expressly
says
we
can't.
We
can't
give
this
a
certificate
of
appropriateness.
We
can't
issue
one
for
the
demolition
until
plans
for
replacement,
structure
or
object
have
been
reviewed
and
approved
by
the
Commission.
So
we
have
to
get
more
detail
on
that
and
then
I
think
everybody
like
to
Mark's
point.
M
Other
specific
standards
have
been
mentioned,
I
think
I,
don't
know
if
anybody
reckoned
the
directional
expression
of
facades
on
the
black.
You
know
that
just
next
door
but
I
think
taking
a
close
look
at
all.
These
standards
in
construction
that
have
been
referenced
will
be
key
in
tweaking
the
design
of
the
new
construction.
Before
we
can
approve
the
demolition.
B
A
B
Wanted
to
say,
because
somebody
mentioned
innovative
design
when
they
were
up
here,
I
think
the
intent
of
that
is
not
that
this
is
not
an
innovative
design.
It's
that
that
standard
is
basically
saying
we're,
not
discouraging
innovative
design
and
I
think
that's
really
important
that
it
doesn't
have
to
be.
B
B
A
G
P
G
A
A
B
A
G
K
G
G
At
least
that
would
have
one
representative,
her
committee,
so
we
have
I
believe
four
people
attending
the
meeting
and
that
would
be
an
introduction.
We
have
invited
Nate
Kipnis,
an
architect
from
avid
son,
who
is
very
specializes
in
sustainability
and
and
and
other
types
of
solar
and
wind
energy,
and
he
also
has
experience
working
with
historic
districts.
G
B
G
G
A
A
It's
supplemented
by
some
kind
of
cultural
center,
perhaps
space
and
family
focus
with
pictures
and
other
archival
material.
That's
some
way
of
really
promoting
the
culture
of
the
fifth
Ward.
But
it's
a
is
a
site.
I
mean
it's
I,
think
it's
a
real,
interesting
project,
but
it's
it's
probably
a
lot
of
work
and
a
lot
of
time
to
do.
B
A
G
G
We
have
that
really
started
to
plan
that
ahead.
We
wanted
just
to
get
started
with
Dino
and
we
have
the
meeting
with
him
who
was
supposed
to
meet
also
with
the
alderman,
but
she
was
unable
to
attend.
So
Dino
is
gonna.
Show
us
what
the
resources
he
has.
He
has
research
done
over
the
years
and
I
think
his
emphasis
is
basically
to
be
able
to
somehow
recognize
the
sites
and
people
particular
people,
representative
of
the
african-american
community
and
Evan
stone,
not
just
the
fifth
Ward,
so
I'll.
G
Imagine
that
you
know
once
we
have
a
better
understanding
what
entails
to
put
together
a
eventual
recommendation
to
the
Commission.
You
know
we'll
be
able
to
have
more
regular
meetings.
I,
don't
think
we
have
a
timeline
set
yet
I,
don't
think
we
do,
but
eventually
we
may
so
that
we
can
start
and
finish
within
every
single
period
of
time.
G
I
think
what
is
helpful
in
my
mind
is
that
we
are
not
or
they're
not
looking
for
historic
district
in
a
traditional
sense
and
then
don't
think
would
like
to
impose
any
restrictions
and
their
preservation
ordinance
would
have.
If
you
have
a
mystical
tradition
of
landmark,
it's
more
a
recognition
of
people
and
events
and
sites.
H
G
H
G
I
mean
if
you
have
a
good
background
in
research
and
also
start
a
preservation
or
history.
If
you
also,
if
you
have
a
background
in
organizing
research,
I
think
that
was
very
helpful
and
I
think
Dino
has
all
those
qualities,
so
he
probably
would
impart
his
knowledge
to
whoever
gone
until
wants
to
assist
and.
G
We
are
looking
as
many
people
to
be
honest
when
we
started
back
in
the
original.
We
have
a
thing
that
some
of
the
residents
were
involved.
I
think
in
my
mind,
what
it's
important
is
that
the
residents
you
know
and
the
aldermen
will
be
the
ones
who
basically
will
teach
us
what
they
really
want
and
how
they
want
to
be
recognized
rather
than
us
trying
to
follow
the
traditional.
You
know,
nomination
of
a
historic
district.
G
To
be
honest,
I
need
to
learn
about
that
myself
in
terms
of
the
contributions
of
the
african-american
community
in
Evanston,
and
that's
another
thing:
he
emphasized
it's
not
just
the
fifth
Ward.
He
had
some
locations.
He
mapped
out
that
go
to
the
downtown
and
you
know
there
are
scattered
locations.
So
how
do
you
recognize
all
that?
Rather
than
that
he
started
this?
We
would
be
very
difficult
in
itself.
I
don't
know
necessarily
if
some
buildings,
you
know
need
to
be
landmark,
but
I
think
their
goal.
Right
now
is
the
recognition
more
than
anything
else.
M
A
Something
I'd
like
to
be
involved
in
and
learn
more
about
it.
I
mean
as
Carlos
says:
I,
don't
know
that
nurse
can
have
ideas
and
try
to
help
out
I
think
that's
probably
ultimately,
most
of
what
we're
doing
is
just
trying
to
you
know
just
kind
of
volunteer
some
time
and
there's
no
schedule
and
it's
you
know
funding
ultimately,
is
it's
probably
an
issue
at
some
point
and
sorry.
B
B
I
know
it's
probably
changed
because
Evanston's
gone
in
and
things
that
will
cost
housing
and
places
where
there
were
old
buildings,
but
there's
a
whole
history
of
this
bump
there
it's
true,
but
it
goes
all
the
way
I
mean
if
you
go
up
to
what
used
to
be
morals
or
whatever
the
barbecue
place.
There's
a
church.
A
But
what
we
at
least
thrown
out
in
the
meeting
was
that
there
would
be
some
kind
of
a
district,
a
cultural
center
in
the
fifth
Ward,
largely
because
that's
the
area
which
has
both
the
confluence
of
historic
structures
and
kind
of
current
cultural
life.
And
there
you
know
we
did.
We
all
just-
did
some
online
checking
into.
A
J
G
Had
well
I
had
an
email
from
Julie
who
is
not
here,
obviously,
but
she
nominated
Khanna's,
chair
Marcus
vice-chair
alike.
As
the
vice
chair
or
secretary
and
Susie,
a
secretary
and
I
mentioned
to
Julie
that
ken
has
repeatedly
said
he
doesn't
want
to
be
there
made
you
change
your
mind,
but
that's
one
of
those
later
officers
and
obviously
I
told
her
that
the
Commission.
F
G
J
A
G
G
I
saw
we
have
two
suggestions:
one
is
to
keep
the
current
slate
of
officers
and
and
also
from
Julie
hacker,
but
we
know
that
can
will
prefer
to
continue,
as
vice
chair
and
Elliott
also
will
have
to
continue
as
Secretary
and
appears.
That
mark
would
like
to
continue
as
the
chair
so
I'd
like
to
hear
from
anyone
a
motion
to
accept
that
later
officers
and
to
vote
for
their
official
reappointment,
I.
Suppose.
G
H
A
G
B
J
G
G
J
B
That
the
name
has
always
confused
people,
because
the
term
guidelines-
and
that
was
when
we
first
started-
I've-
talked
to
Diane
about
it
at
the
time
as
well.
I
think
some
people
think
of
it
as
guidelines
that
the
commissioners
are
using
when
we're
making
our
judgments,
which
ironically
I
collected
all
kind
of
stuff
at
the
beginning,
from
a
lot
of
other
towns
which
do
exactly
that
they,
if
the
public
goes
on
or
an
applicant,
they
actually
get
some
sense
of
that.
B
How
we
view
these
criteria,
but
in
the
end
this
became
much
more
a
guideline
as
to
for
those
who
have
looked
at
it
as
to
how
to
kind
of
work
your
way
through
the
process.
It
tells
you
in
much
better
terms
where
to
find
the
forms
where
to
do
all
of
the
rest.
So
it's
I'm
not
sure
that
the
name
guidelines,
the
proper
word
for
it,
and
it
was
a
big
conflict
early
on
I
think
I
was
the
only
one
that
wanted.
They
have
guidelines
that
told
you
how
commissioners
kind
of
thought
it
wasn't.
B
B
Way,
some
of
the
Chicago
suburbs,
as
well,
even
with
little
drawings,
it's
like
for
those
who
have
seen
you
know
the
Department
of
Interior
and
all
the
rest
that
they
show
as
being
examples
of
what
do
they
mean
by
scale
and
continuity,
and
so
on,
so
that
when
we
were
referring
to
these
things
tonight,
there
would
actually
be
sort
of.
This
is
what
we're
talking
about.
He
understood
Kristen,
but
how
many
other
people
here
do
and
I
think
that's
always
an
issue
yeah.
B
B
M
G
B
J
G
B
Previous
one,
yes,
and
yet
they
came
in
and
I
was
reading
the
minutes.
The
minutes
make
it
very
clear.
You
know
wood
or
and
and
it
seemed
as
if
you
know
he
went
to
a
different
contractor
and
just
came
and
said,
I,
don't
think
this.
The
contractor
tonight
had
any
idea
of
our
standards,
and
in
that
respect
you
know,
there's
not
a
lot
so.
A
A
Maybe
some
of
the
more
technically
astute
members
of
our
Commission
educating
us
on
I,
don't
know
if
we
feel
we
have
the
resources
within
the
Commission
to
have
a
few
different
discussions
for
a
retreat
versus
been
last
year.
You
know
was
really
good
presentations
by
you
know
outside
speakers,
but
they
weren't
that
close
related
to
the
day-to-day
work.
We
do
I
mean
what
would
you
think
of
having
kind
of
a
self-taught
with
a
few
different
discussion,
leaders,
kind
of
discussion
of
issues
like
windows,
new
construction
or
whatever
that
we
face
or
in
the
country?
B
B
M
G
G
G
This
exercise
would
allow
for
a
healthy
dialogue
where
we
may
be
grappling
with
gray
areas,
but
have
not
had
the
opportunity
to
flesh
to
flush
out
any
confusion
and
review
of
Windows
materials
which
have
come
before
the
preservation
mission.
We
should
have
several
types
of
windows
at
the
retreat
to
physically
see
the
differences
between
wood.
Is
the
windows
clad
as
the
old
windows
and
other
types
fibrex
question
mark?
And
finally,
we
should
review
other
synthetic
materials
which
appear
on
the
exterior
of
a
building,
hardly
bore
plastic,
shingles,
etc.
G
So
those
are
things
that
she
wanted
to
share
with
you
in
terms
of
what
kind
of
things
we
could
talk
about
as
a
retreat
in
the
past,
I
would
invite
someone
or
people
who
are.
You
know
specialize
in
particular
area.
You
know
we
can
invite
window
providers
and
weather
products.
We
did
that
in
the
past
in
terms
of
procedure,
I
think
that
or
how
to
conduct
the
meetings.
I
think
that
the.
G
G
I
I
think
we
also
wanted
and
I
think
Carlos
had
highlighted
this
previously
to
do
some
more
forward,
thinking,
work
and
look
at
what
we
can
do
to
promote
preservation
to
do
larger
education,
the
community
about
preservation,
some
of
those
types
ideas
there
they're
different
than
just
the
our
interactions
with
applicants
that
want
to
make
improvements
to
to
a
particular
building,
so
I
think
that's
something
else.
We
could
look
at
and
then
discuss
it
over
treatment
and.
M
I
think
there's
some
overlap.
There
I
think
the
clear,
more
educated
and
clearer.
We
are
all
our
what
we
will
or
won't
accept
in
like
windows
and
things
like
that,
the
more
we
can
articulate
that
and
we
can
think
of
creative
ways
to
get
that
message
out
or
add
to
our
website
or
whatever
in
certain
things
to
to
make
it
clear.
I
think
that
anything
that
will
assist
in
making
the
process
seem
more
user-friendly
and
clearer
and
laid
out.
G
G
G
G
Education
is
it's
a
large
part
of
it?
We
have
the
awards
program
and
I
think
that
that's
been
successful
and
I'd
like
for
2020
to
have
the
participation
of
all
commissioners.
It's
been
difficult
this
year,
I,
don't
think.
Whatever
reason
we
couldn't
have
all
of
you
present,
but
you
know
have
your
presence
on
those
events.
It's
important
to
people
know
that
you're
supporting
the
project.
G
Some
of
the
goals
are
sometimes
difficult
to
achieve,
although
it
says
in
the
audience
that
you
know
we
should
look
for
nominations
and
historic
districts
and
so
on
so
forth.
But
I
think
is
also
important
to
remember
that,
like
we
don't
have
too
many
situations
were
like
the
case
of
the
faith.
Work
and
alderman
wants
something
to
happen
and
we
are
reacting
to
it
and
hopefully
in
a
good
way,
but
I
can
imagine
how
difficult
might
be
to
nominate
another
district
unless
the
people
want
it.
B
Would
have
some
or
although
historic
is
tricky
because
they
were
running
through
all
these
people
that
went
to
school
there
and
it's
harder.
When
you
simply
say
the
neighborhood
has
some
significance.
Historically,
as
opposed
to
the
individual
I
mean
they
may
say,
somebody
lived
there.
I
think
it's
gonna
be
much
harder.
You
could
start
doing
that
all
over
the
city,
but
it's
the
first
time
where
that
became
a
big
issue
for
the
Commission,
because
I
think
everybody
agreed
it
wasn't.
Gonna
be
architectural
II.
G
J
G
A
B
I'd
gone
through
one,
the
prior
went
out
what
was
it
st.
Charles
and
that
was
phenomenal,
because
they
did
a
much
better
job
of
educating
us
applying
criteria.
There
was
a
lot
more
of
here's,
some
examples
and
literally
people
were
like.
Do
you
think
this
would
be
landmark?
Yeah,
you
know,
raise
your
hand
and
eventually
you
became
sensitized
to
to
the
standards.
B
If
you
want
to
call
it
that-
and
it
was
much
more
effective,
these
guys
didn't
do
enough
of
it
this
time,
and
that
was
my
criticism
of
it,
but
it
varies
with
the
presenters
as
well,
and
it's
a
really
interesting
exercise.
It's
what
you
were
you
were
asking
about.
You
know
what
do
you
show
people?
They
were
actually
showing
us
examples
and
I
would
say
that
in
about
three-quarters
of
the
instances
most
of
the
people
in
the
room
on
the
wrong
side,
I
mean
literally
all
these
people
were
on
Commission's
at
all.
B
The
rest
were
like
no
wouldn't
land
market
would
have
and
all
the
rest
and
we're
often
wrong.
You
know,
and
then
we
began
to
realize
that
we
weren't
quite
understanding
the
standards.
The
way
we
should
have
in
a
Bob
Beatty
was
like
a
month
on
the
Commission.
He
was
stunned
by
the
whole
experience,
because
I.
A
What
should
we
be
doing,
and
then
we
have
all,
of
course,
all
the
pressure
from
the
neighbors
coming
in
and
how
should
we
view
that
I
mean
I?
Would
love
to
see
us
have
be
able
to
have
that
discussion
that
we
just
don't
have
the
opportunity
to
have
and
when
people
come
before
us
and
maybe
feel
a
little
more
equipped.
The
next
time
somebody
comes
in
with
you
know,
a
new
construction
project,
maybe
not
it's
pretty.
It's
mere
court.
O
G
J
G
G
A
G
They
have
a
complete
application,
you
know
so
the
other
aspect
of
it
is,
you
know
the
different
materials
that
are
in
the
market.
Some
of
them
might
be
more
personal,
familiar
and
others.
I
asked
the
state
Preservation
Office.
If
they
have
any
thoughts
about
certain
materials,
for
instance,
they
didn't
know
anything
about
fibrex.
G
They
also
have
certain
ways
of
looking
at
things.
For
instance,
I
remember
attending
one
of
those
sessions
and
in
the
last
five
years,
or
so
we
talked
about
1950s
buildings
and
they
have
the
asphalt
shingle.
That
is,
you
know
the
least
expensive,
before
the
treaty
thirty-year
and
in
their
mind,
if
you
are
going
to
replace
that
roof,
it
had
to
be
the
same,
not
the
30,
Europe
or
single.
B
B
Then
then
that
should
be
then
the
argument
to
the
state
it
shouldn't
be
the
state
saying
this
is
what
we
think
when
they
didn't
have
any
context
at
all,
I
mean
this
guy
in
Springfield,
when
I
read
that
letter
I,
don't
he
really
understood
the
context
or
all
of
the
ordinance
involved
and
I
think
that's
really
unfortunate.
Well,.
M
I
have
to
as
somebody
that
worked
at
the
federal
level
in
that
department,
with
the
state
levels
or
whatever
the
state
and
the
federal
people
when
they're
involved
in
these
tax
things
are
doing.
You
know
far
more
review
of
documents
than
we
do
site
visits.
You
know
they're
it's
it's
far,
far
more
in-depth
of
a
review
than
anything
that
the
we
do.
B
G
Know
my
experience
with
a
project
that
unfortunately
didn't
go
as
good
as
you
might
imagine
going
through
preservation
in
Evanston.
It
was
a
gentleman
who
thought
this
landmark.
He
wanted
to
demolish
it
and
I
convinced
him.
That
probably
was
not
going
idea
to
begin
with,
but
also
that
the
standards
were
not
met.
Eventually,
he
changed
his
mind
and
then
I
mentioned
about
the
assessment
I'm
sorry.
G
Yet
the
property
assessment
freeze
program
to
him
at
some
point
and
then
he
decided
to
restore
the
house
and
he
had
an
attached
garage
which
he
converted
into
a
family
room.
The
only
thing
he
changed
was
the
garage
doors
to
windows,
and
then
he
did
not
apply
to
the
assessment
freeze
right
away.
He
waited
maybe
a
year
or
so
and
he
applied
for
it.
The
Commission
had
approve
everything
they
state
did
not
approve
the
replacement
of
the
doors
or
windows.
They
thought
that
was
the
front.
Facade
and
I
said
well,
it's
recess.
G
B
I,
don't
know
if
anybody
picked
up
on
it.
He
was
making
these
comments
about
this
really
doesn't
matter
as
much,
because
it's
only
from
the
alley
which
meant
that
he
thinking
about
the
applicants
and
I
didn't
quite
understand
that
that's
also
the
public
way
he
was
kind
of
blowing
it
off
to
some
extent
about
this.
Is
the
alley
facade?
So
why
does
it
matter
and
and
that's
why
I
asked
whether
or
not
the
state
people
also
looked
at
is
this
is
the
alley
which
is
you
know,
do
you
trivialize?
It.
J
J
A
J
G
B
B
G
B
A
G
And,
depending
on
what
topics
the
Commission
would
like
to
discuss,
I
may
be
able
to
contact
certain
individuals
that
might
offer
some
additional
the
information
that
will
be
helpful
to
address
your
concerns
from
window
representatives
to
I.
Don't
know,
maybe
other
people,
some
are
my
colleagues
and
other
communities.
I
will
ask
you
know
what
sources
they
have
or
resources
they
have
is
one
okay,
all.