City of Hollister California City Council, 14 Jun 2023

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From YouTube: Ladd Lane Public Outreach Meeting - June 14, 2023

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Ladd Lane Public Outreach Meeting - June 14, 2023 with City Staff

A

A

Good evening, everyone so I'm going to use the microphone tonight, because we have folks on zoom and if I, don't they're, not able to hear us. Okay, so um I will be taking questions later and I will be using the microphone, even though it's a small group and that's for the benefit of the folks on Zoom, so I just want to get that out of the way. First, all right, so thank you and welcome.

A

um My name is David marioni I'm, the interim city manager for the City of Hollister and I, have the Good Fortune of being able to kick off tonight's event. So this is the uh an update on traffic calming for Ladd Lane and South Side Road, and so we have a a presentation this evening that our engineering department will be providing, along with uh an ability to provide feedback. Ask questions have an interactive dialogue with with our team, we're not filling out public comment cards. This is an official City meeting tonight.

A

This is more of a conversation with our residents, so we want to come at it from that perspective, so feel free to ask as many questions as you like, and we will work our best to to get through all of them tonight, and so we do have uh our mayor in the audience tonight. Mayor Casey. Would you like to say a few words.

B

C

Testing, oh okay, so welcome everybody. I'm, really glad! There's a lot of folks here and I see a lot of folks online, so I'm happy to have this community engagement I think it's important um I'm, anxious to hear what our Engineers have to say and what fixes we can have to you know make things better because I know there are a lot of concerns that have been raised so I, just I'm, glad you're here for the conversation and I'm going to be listening in as well, and maybe have a few comments later all right.

C

A

Thank you mayor, so as way of introductions of our team. Here today we have Glenn March, who is the City of Hollister city engineer. We also have Christian Bulls, who is also in our engineering department and he's an associate engineer. We have Frederick winter, the vice president with Kim Lee horn, who is a consultant, a consultancy firm that helps us with our engineering projects and then Frederick with Kimberly horn does have staff online. That is able to provide Spanish translation.

A

So if, um if there's anyone in the audience or online, that requires Spanish translation. If you could raise your hand or raise your hand the hand icon online for a moment, that would be fantastic.

D

Paul, do we have anybody raising their hand.

A

Yeah, why don't you give them the opportunity to speak? Please.

D

Mr Oliver werman um you're on you're on mute right now, but we are allowing you to speak right now. If you want to make a comment, this.

A

Would be in regards to the need of translation services if.

D

You need translation services.

D

If, if not we'll put you back.

A

All right well hearing none I'm going to pass the microphone to our city, engineer, Mr, Glenn March! Thank you. Miss.

D

Carol yeah: do you need um translation services, no.

E

I, don't I just have I just wanted to say. Are we supposed to be? Can you hear me? Yes,.

D

Can you hear us.

E

um This is Carol garino and I live on Talbot, and so um my question is, do can you are we supposed to be able to see you at UCCS or because we're not I can't I can hear you Christian I can't see you.

D

You should be able to see I.

E

Can see the gentleman in the blue shirt with.

D

E

The yeah I see him and.

D

I can see the audience you're just you're attending as a um D, but you don't have access unless you um raise your hand and at the time for comments wanted.

E

To check thank.

D

You very much thank you. Sorry.

F

Also Joe Royal from Kimberly horn can I jump in here and then um request uh for translation services in Spanish just in case anybody needs it.

D

Please do so if you, if you'd, like okay.

G

Sir uh gracias, foreign.

F

All right, I, don't see anybody raising their hand. I think you guys are good to go.

D

Thank you, Joe thank.

G

H

Good evening I'm Glenn Martz the city engineer uh tonight we're having a public Outreach session.

H

The mayor has asked staff to have this public Outreach session, uh since the mayor has been here oops since the mayor's been here she's very insistent upon public Outreach before projects are implemented for this project. That didn't happen. So the intention is to have a conversation about the project um and after this meeting we'll provide a report to city council about um comments and feedback from the poll. We have online if you're not aware of it, um reach out to Christian and he will get you set up.

H

uh So there are people who, like the project- and there are people who don't so. What we want to make sure is everyone respects everyone's opinion. So this is a conversation with me. The city manager and Frederick, and our job is to inform the entire city council about what happened tonight and online.

H

So we're gonna, we're gonna, have a presentation by Frederick and we're going to discuss, or he will discuss um what the situation was before the project was implemented.

H

Then he's going to follow that with what is currently out there and third, he is going to discuss conceptual alternatives. So these are not options. They are Concepts to discuss and we've covered I think we have three or four, so uh don't think of them as something we're going to implement.

H

Think of it as something we want feedback on. So some people may, like certain elements of the traffic calming shown in one option: one concept, but not others. So the purpose is to have a conversation and tell us what you like and and don't like, so um we're going to turn it over to Frederick and um and have him provide the presentation about uh what the what the street looked like before uh now and what it could look like in the future.

I

um Thank you Glenn good evening, everyone um here in person and also everybody online. It's always exciting to have public workshops. We always get good input, so we're looking forward to any questions or comments you have tonight and, like Lynn, said what the next steps are.

I

So um we only have a few slides and we're going to share those with you a little bit of background so that you do know where the project came from.

I

So the the concerns that were raised by by staff um previously was you know we have um some. uh We call it Donuts that people make in the intersections. You know, and there was evidence of this and then the complaints as well. You know the black marks there. um You know at South, Side and Nora and south side of lad and also loud and Paul. You can clearly see the tire marks right of people just coming in especially this happens, especially in the night time.

I

um We also looked at some parking uh concerns that happens at the school, and so the slide at the top left was a little bit before you know. So that was when we did our field survey. There was signs up that says three hour parking on northbound, lad, Lane, and that was the focus of that was to allow for school pickup and drop off right. So um we didn't want people to park the otherwise the only sort of um error on that was.

I

We said you can park here, but you actually parked in the bike lane. So when it's illegal to park on a bike lane, also, um you know you push the bike. Overs into the travel Lane, which is which is not ideal for for bicycle safety, so on the right hand, side in the design. So this was done before any of the other elements went in. We actually provide the bike lane next to the curb, and then we have the striped buffer and then we provided parking next to the stripe buffer.

I

So now, when parents go pick up the kids, they actually parked, where the, where the with the sort of it looks like a travel Lane, but that's the parking Lane. So you have a travel lane and then a parking lane, and then you have that stripe buffer and then the bike Lane right next to the curb, so there's better separation. So if kids ride their bikes, you know they can either travel in the bike lane and a lot of them also ride on the sidewalk.

I

um So this was a Northbound um bad Lane.

I

There we go um so this is on uh specifically oops that went twice nope there we go, so this is on South Side, um and uh so this is before the study and there was again the same signs put up to allow parents to park and pick up their kids and they said no parking allowed on South Side park and a bike lane for school. But um you know and or but Baron still would stop in the bike lane.

I

So we have a similar condition that we have um for a very short block, but there's an opportunity. I was out there afterwards and there's a lot of parents that do pick up kids. So there's maybe the opportunity to improve some of the parking specifically for the school um and then of course, again the sideshow or the donuts that people make at the at the intersections.

I

So the primary goal was to address the drag racing. So that's one of the elements: I don't have information on that, but we we did do some speed, counts and people were drag racing at night and we did see that on a lot of the responses as well. um On the you know, on the on the survey, that's still running um the speeding along the corridor, so the average speeds and the 85th percentile speeds were okay, but the maximum speeds were really high.

I

um You know so some of the maximum speeds went went, um went higher than we really want to see on the residential street.

I

um One of the other main purposes here was to improve bicycle and pedestrian safety. These are both routes that kids travel on, walk and Bike to School. um Also, parents travelers to go pick up and drop off their children for School attendance.

I

The traffic calming measures that was approved by Council included a road diets what we call it so we take basically the four lanes and bring it down to just two lanes. So one lane is Direction the travel volumes on landline.

I

They were low enough that we warranted a what we call this road diet um to address the intersections and there was a recommendation to install the traffic circles that are in location right now and then with the there was also a recommendation to do bulb outs and then, of course, stripe the bike lens with a buffer.

I

Now the road was really wide, so we have a lot of roadway space.

I

So we try to optimize and utilize that, to the best available to create some Dead Space, if I can put it that way, that some of that is spaces in the median and then the other Dead Space is really on Chevrons and the bike buffer right. So what was implemented?

I

um Was this Meandering roadway, because what the Meandering does it also slows traffic down? We narrowed the lanes to 10 feet, which is very acceptable in in urban conditions, and then there was the installation of those domes that we call them armadillos in the media and then also the um stanchions. So those are the white pylons that you see on the right hand, side, and so the totally the purpose of that effect was just to slow traffic down traveling up and down that lane.

I

And then we have the class 4 Bikeway, um we'll get adjacent to the curb.

I

um Specifically, you can see some green striping that was provided where the crossings were and then a brand new pedestrian Crossing striping. It's called a triple four: it's just a better enhancement than you better can see. Pedestrians Crossing when you do when you stripe that that's a brand new method of striping pedestrian activity.

I

We also ran truck tuning templates and vehicle turning templates and fire truck templates, um and so the fire truck template that was provided at that time by the city was a 37 foot truck I, think it's a medium truck and then we also ran the the other vehicles to show that the vehicles can actually make good turns the lineators. So those are those white stanchions were installed um per Caltrans design standards.

I

That's what the city uses when they install these and they basically 10 foot spacing, and you can see here if a vehicle is stopped, um you know ready to make either a left or a right turn or go across that you would look left or right and what this does, because the speeds have been lowered on that lane. Is that the side distance that you require or that the vehicle would require to stop is acceptable right granted?

I

You cannot see as far as you used to right, but then vehicles are traveling much over slower, so Vehicles would travel previously at 45 55 now they're traveling at 35, maybe 45. So the stopping distance, the stopping side distance is a lot less.

I

um So this shows that typical layout zoomed out a little bit, so you can see the median treatment, the rice pavement domes. You can see the bike Lanes the traffic circles and then we have those stangents or the delineators on the outside of the travel Lanes.

I

um So we attended a couple of City Council meetings and there were a lot of um concerns and comments raised at those. So the next slide is basically a summary that you have tonight.

I

um Concerns were difficulty maneuvering Traders around the traffic circle, um so yes, that would definitely definitely be slower, a slower movement and a more judged movement. So you need to be careful that you can make that around it and there was a comment made that the linears were blocking the view. So, like I, said, the side distance is acceptable, but you don't have the side distance that you had previously, but the side distance is still acceptable and beat Caltrans requirements.

I

um There was discussion about a left turn lane at hillocks, so ilak was outside of the scope of this study. So this study was only looking at LAD, Lane, basically south of of Morning Glory.

I

So the armadillos in the medium that will be hit and damage cars that you know that was sort of the purpose, because if we don't put protection, the medium people will strive in it right and you're not supposed to be in the median. So you know- and if you have an emergency you've got to pull over right, then you've got to do it slowly.

I

um You know and and then drive across those armadillos just in a manner that could not or would not damage your car and the traffic circles where the stop signs. um So that is acceptable and we on we did not want to design roundabouts, so roundabouts will have yield signs.

I

um These were traffic circles so consistent with how the you know we design and Implement. These stop signs are acceptable with traffic circles.

I

um The statement was also made that people avoid landline and driving through the neighborhood, um so the the accounts that we had were fairly low and we didn't have a new data to show you know if that actually occurred. My my gather wheel is it's still an arterial. You can still travel 35 or 40 miles on it. um You know so it will be far slower traveling through a neighborhood with stop signs and all the curves and all the turns. Then it would be just traveling along the Adelaide.

I

The traffic circles were difficult to see at night. um You know so. The traffic circles have signage and posts and signs are put warning signs before the time. There are actually some reflective materials and signs in the circle. So it is brand new and you would definitely have to not be on your phone and look for these signs and the measures to to to be able to negate the traffic circles.

I

um It was mentioned that kids play on the traffic circles. um If they do play there, they shouldn't be there. Maybe there's a little bit of Education from parents with the kids. The travel Lane is too narrow, so that was the whole purpose. Is the traveling should be narrow, so people can slow down and, like I said, 10 feet is acceptable, especially also since there's nothing on the outsides of it. Right um suggest, stop signs and enforcement. You know we are always encouraging enforcement.

I

um It's always it's part of what we do and what we design and how rules of the road gets um implemented.

I

It says parking was removed on landline, so I think I've showed you that we've actually put it back in a manner that I think improves the school access and especially since we could accommodate the bike Lanes and then the fire trucks have difficulty getting around the traffic circles so on the fire track that we used as the template did negate the um the circles. I do believe that the city brought a newer truck afterwards and we have not I, don't know if we've checked that one.

A

Frederick, can you take a minute to talk more about stop signs not being a traffic control measure I, think we hear a lot of questions about that and I think it's good for the folks uh participating tonight to hear the difference and that they're not and what we have to go through and what, through an engineering perspective, to add a stop sign? Okay,.

I

So if we um so there's a lot of requests coming in to say, can we just like this intersection and turn into an always stop? We think it'll, calm traffic. We think it'll settle the people down.

I

um Unfortunately, there's evidence that cities that do install always stops um that the accident rate will go up. You get more rear, end accidents because people are not used to them, um so they are in the in the manual for urban traffic control devices. That's basically Traffic Engineers Bible. There are very strict warrants that you need to study and has to be met before you can install and always stop sign.

I

um The I can also share with you that if cities do install, always stop signs and then they're not warranted, and there is an accident and there's an injury and you know 1030 becomes evolved. The very first thing they ask the city is: please show us your warrant study and, of course, if there's an injury in the city didn't do this study, they will get sued and they will lose so um so.

I

A stop sign is a traffic control measure that has to meet certain criteria and they've actually made the criteria a lot more complex, and it's not just the big our traffic. It's also eight hour traffic. You look at pedestrian movements and you can look at safety.

I

um So so quite a few measures say that you need to adhere to and then alert needs to be prepared by a registered engineer that will go to the city and then that will make a recommendation or not make a recommendation to install an always stop sign.

I

So from the comments that we've received, you know there was Direction yeah, because so part of this was there was never Outreach right to the community. So um you know, we've tried to show you tonight what the data was, and that was a very.

I

We followed the typical process that the city would follow to collect data, get to a point where, okay, let's do something, install the traffic calming measures, city council, approved them um and then the it was decided that we perhaps after the complaints and all the comments came in that we should revisit the designs.

I

So we have prepared these three Alternatives plain set. This is all for discussion. None of these have been brought off. um It can be mixed, so we can do one and two or something for one and something from two or you know, one and three. So all.

J

B

On the table, right.

I

um So I'm gonna walk you through these real quick.

I

So the first one is where we just swap the delineators um with the raised pavement box. So the Linea saw those white tensions right, so we will take all of them out right and then we will replace them with a raised pavement marker. So it is a white dot. It's not those armadillos. So it's a white dot.

I

um You will probably see them. Sometimes, if you make a turn a left turn at some intersections, then Caltrans will place them around the curve. When you make a turn to show you where your wheels would go about.

B

This this size.

I

And they're about this high, so you can travel over them more easily than the armadillos, and so we replace them with these six inch ceramic button or we call so call them a bot dot. So that's all engineering slide slang for this. So that's option one. We basically keep the rest of the alternative as it is so we will still have the Meandering. We'll still have the circles, there's just a little lineators and that that will get replaced.

I

Alternative two is to do the same right, so we will replace these tensions with these white dots, but we will straighten out the road, so we remove the Meandering, so it'll be a straight line, so the travel line will still be the row diode, but the lane will be a straight shot between the intersections.

I

The third one third option here is to do the dots so remove the stanchions, um but um and keep the Meandering but remove the circles. So this is the main purpose here is to remove the actual travel circles that are located at the intersections.

I

I think that is the last slide and time to ask questions and discussion.

A

Foreign well, thank you Frederick. We appreciate it so we'll take the opportunity now to take any questions, um we'll probably take two or three here and then Paul. If we could bring a few up online and then we'll just go back and forth, we'll go three and three. If, if that works, so um it's meant to be an open dialogue and to give feedback, and you know we put a few options out. That doesn't mean that's the only option we want to hear from you and get your thoughts so hold on.

A

Let me get to the mic, so the folks online can hear you.

K

My first one is a question when he said that hillock wasn't a part of the study, because there was a left-hand turn laying on Hill like for, and many people come up to, Lad Lane and turn on the corner where Safeway is and make a left-end turn to go to Target and that those left-hand turn people hold up all the other cars that are coming down bad Lane. So the left-hand turn lane was removed and if it wasn't part of your study, I wonder why it was removed.

I

So part of this, this project was actually a reseal of the entire Road right. So there was a new blacktop placed and re-striping was done and I am wondering if, in that process and everybody's aware of the contractor, that didn't do too well in the beginning right so um and I wonder in that process. If the left turn lane did not get struck back, I I can't I'll do the road diet and the traffic calming was. That was part of our desk.

H

Well, look at that we we have to find a little. We have to do a little digging to find the history behind that. So we'll we'll include that in in our comments.

H

L

A

Okay, Miss Hall.

L

I I just um I had a comment along the same lines because, yes, there was definitely restarting done. North of I mean yeah north of Morning Glory.

L

There are two lanes that would go from trespinos road to hillock and now the way it's straight one lane goes through and the other lane is directed to turn right into behind Kmart, which nobody should be going into, except for maybe trucks delivering to Kmart, and not only that the stanchions are starting right after the Kmart property line and the development that was put there was required to install a bus, stop and then no bus can get to that bus stop anymore. So those two things were definitely happening: north of hillig.

L

H

M

N

So I live in Scotts Ranch uh on Regal, Nora and south side that Circle there is a real problem. A real problem. You've got a four-way stop and when you're trying to turn left, it's really dangerous because it's I mean you're trying to make sure that other car really sees you. So um I would like to see that gone. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank.

A

You and we are recording this tonight so we'll have all this and transcribe all the notes. So yes, please.

N

If, if the primary purpose was to stop drag racing and stuff, it's still going on only now, they have a little wavy thing that they can drag race and when we were on, um we were in Monterey for the weekend of May 22nd 23rd came home to Serious rubber around both of those circles on South Side, so they're just finding more creative ways and things how to use it.

A

O

You that question: if, if it's decided that we straighten the street, are we going to bring it back to four lanes or are we going to leave it two lanes? Well,.

H

That would be up to the uh City Council um and we'd put comments. We'd provide those comments in our report. So when I leave here, I'll begin working on a report to the city council and in form of inform them about our conversation today.

H

So do you have a preference, I.

O

Do okay, good reason.

H

O

Do is I've lived, my home actually backs up to land, Lane and I've lived there since 2002 and I've watched all the changes and, unfortunately there's a lot of drive. There was a lot of drag racing. There were a lot of donut holes in right behind my home they're on lad Lane, and it happened in the daytime they're, pretty Brazen and they're.

O

Pretty reckless um I personally think that it is a good thing, I hate to see it taken out, I, don't know where we're going to get the resources to pay for these removal and redoing it um I mean those are my concerns. How are we going to pay for it? We have a hospital right now that is almost in bankruptcy, I'm concerned about where the resources come and I personally am not happy about. Having my taxes raised again to accommodate redoing, something that is working.

O

It is slowing down the traffic um I have the Good Fortune of being able to see the signage where the cars are going back with the speed on it and I see them doing 50 60 miles an hour in a 25 mile speed zone.

O

This is a neighborhood and we have mothers and fathers that are walking their babies back and forth to school and people using the bike lane, and this is going to endanger them. If this goes back to a four lane and becomes another racetrack.

H

Okay, thank you. Paul.

A

Can we take a comment online and then we'll come back to the audience.

D

D

You may speak.

A

They're on mute, Carol there you go.

E

I'm, sorry there you go. Can you hear me now? Carol, Guarino, okay, so I live on Talbot and lad. Lane I have the second house in so I have a bird's eye view of everything. That's going on. One of the things is making the turns, as described in your what your presentation is very difficult. If you have a big truck, the comment about traffic coming through town through the neighborhood um has increased since that, because people don't want to travel I personally, don't like to drive that road.

E

But um it's I agree with the lady who said: let's take it out of all these this craziness and bring it back to just you know a straight Street.

E

The delineators um are a difficulty for visual and um I personally had a situation yesterday, where there were two cars wanting to go down left lane towards Target and I wanted to go left on lab Lane into my house, and we sat there because nobody knew where the hell to go. So it's like okay, what nobody there was: no Direction, no, no flow of the traffic so and I agree with the lady who lives on South Side about drag racing.

E

This hasn't stopped it you go out any given morning and the delineators have been hit and not only have they been hit and knocked over. The asphalt has come up because of the way they placed them.

E

My neighbor went walking yesterday and picked up some that had come down and put them on the side of the road so the whole they don't. It hasn't stopped the drag racing at all and I understand what the lady says, whose house backs up to this to the speed limit. Sign I, see that but, like I said where I'm at I can hear it and they start at South Side and they go through here and sometimes they stop at the stop sign by Safeway. Sometimes they blow right through it. So the whole.

E

The whole situation is bad. I think it would be better if it was a four-lane road coming or back to a straight road coming off of lately on to um I'm. Sorry, coming off of Talbot on a lad, Lane going towards Safeway people are hitting the ballards because they're so low and the turn is so tight, but that's happening there. It's happening on Paul, it's it's happening up and down the street and then The Pedestrian Crossing, which is right on the corner by my house.

E

Those lights, don't work.

E

You've got a button that you can push, nothing lights up and my husband's tested it.

E

So that's an issue too, so I think the whole road is a mess and I agree with the lady who said: where are we going to get the money to fix this? This costs a lot of money with the contractor error coming back and fixing it cost a lot of money, so where's the money gonna come from to correct the problems we've lived here since 1999..

E

What's happened out here is insane never seen anything like this and the whole time we've lived here.

E

H

You thank you we'll get out and test that push button tomorrow and we'll bring your comments to city council.

D

Who is next or city manager? I I have another one on. If you want to do that.

D

Mr Carl: do you linear, Leonardo, sorry about that.

H

D

We can hear you go ahead: okay,.

P

Great uh yeah, I'm Carl de Leonardo and I've spoken three different times about uh varying traffic calming uh projects throughout uh Hollister I was there at the April 17th meeting when mayor Casey proposed this night, and she put it on her. um Her discretionary funds and I'd like to thank her for doing that.

P

I'd also like to state that, when I spoke, that night uh council member ascendus had mentioned uh that he didn't want this night to happen, that uh he felt that taking out anything would cause growth to occur and I hope that the pro the anti-growth people are not using traffic commune as a cudgel.

P

uh As for what we have at LAD, Lane I have seen a department of uh uh Transportation studies, a true um chicane that would work perfectly to go from one lane to another and wouldn't have the waviness that we have currently on the road which really upsets everyone. I would ask that you look into the department of uh transportations uh strikane uh um idea.

P

B

Q

Well, I just had a question: everybody talks about you know, speed and, um and- and these drag races going on is- is there a way that um maybe it could be patrolled more by the police or even to put install cameras? I mean we know downtown. We have cameras when we're walking down the street when we're driving down the street. Everybody can see us we're on camera.

Q

Why can't it be done there in that area and and also to um just uh personally myself, um I, don't live in that area, but I did want to bring up. I live on Nash Road, and we also have a problem with Racers. You know going down. You know speeding through that that road, also that that's really why I was here. You know I just wanted to bring that up, but um uh is there any way that um that can be done? You know a camera installation at least I have a temporary basis or permanent.

A

Small address we did have a preliminary budget discussion on Monday night and Council gave direction for staff to come back uh at our budget adoption to include an additional police officer in the budget, and so we'll be discussing that on June 26th the hiring of an additional position.

A

R

Hi there um I live on land, Lane and Evelyn, um my kind of Calvin and Madeline and Evelyn's.

R

But one of the issues that I I've experienced quite a few times is you guys, have changed the speed limit from 45 I believe to now 25 and um some people are in a rush going down loud, Lane and I have to make a left onto Talbot from land and I've nearly been hit quite a few times, because people are driving too close and um I guess they don't realize that the speed limit has changed from 45 to 25.

R

So that seems to be an issue that myself and a few of my neighbors have experienced as well. So I don't know what you can do about that, but it's a problem.

H

I'm going to let Frederick talk about establishing how we establish uh uh speeds on Street.

I

um So so speed limits are, firstly determined by um you know that is geometric design. So you know if a road has curves, um you know when we do a what we call a design speed and the design speed will be higher than what we use. Typically post, that's the ideal, but it doesn't always happen. So you will always know also see if you go in a more um hilly terrain that you know. Maybe the speed limit is 45, but you go around the bend.

I

There will be warning signs that says, but this bin, the 35 or 25 miles an hour in in City conditions. um You know, there's a de facto speed of 25 miles per hour on on city, streets and residential streets, and if it is higher, then the city starts posting it. The 25 miles per hour is primarily posted at schools or, if there's a problem, and here because of the changed roadway, you know the decision was made to post a 25 mile per hour.

I

Speed limit just to have everybody slow down, and there are then there's new legislation about how speech limits. Speed limits are determined. It used to be always to the 85th percentile speed. It gets very engineering jargonier, um but now there's some new legislation out about how these are determined and it you could revert back to a previous speed limit. You can post that or you can do an engineering study um in the old days. It was always 85th percentile.

I

So if people drove faster, the city was forced to increase the speed limit so that they could be enforcement and those those, though that legislation just recently changed. So it gets even more complex.

A

Okay, we'll take one more in the audience and then we'll go back to zoom.

S

Hi, this is Ryan, I live on, uh Irma drive and I just want to say that I agree with pretty much everybody in the room here. What we've created here is a complete mess. um I have more of a comment more than a question, but really I mean the spirit of this.

S

Was it to solve speed, drag racing or safety, because I could relate in a lot of ways at my work, I do engineering work and sometimes when we engineer products to solve a problem or anything like that, the reality is dramatically different at times, and so we have to learn and adapt from that and make some changes, and what we're seeing here is just that it's playing out in real time, but unfortunately, what's creating, is, in my opinion, huge safety hazard, the delineators, whatever we want to call them.

S

I, don't know what height the cars were talking about, where it provides good visibility. You have some very low profile cards, I'm. Sorry, you cannot see through those things. It is a big problem, especially at night, because of reflecting back it's blinding. It's a huge huge problem.

S

I'm in the camp of making this thing, as it was before straight as an arrow right, people are going to still do and whatever they want find ways to burn out whatever you want to call it we're just not going to be able to control that, but I think we've introduced a greater Hazard to the community for the students kids coming to going to school, for the residents coming out and anybody who's traveling through there.

S

So personally, I'd like to see this thing to go right back to where it was before, and the suggestion for cameras. Yes, I think we have an Enforcement issue here, that's what we need to be focusing on not Reinventing. The wheel is something I've already worked before, as it was.

A

Oh, let's go online.

D

Mr and Enrique agayo.

T

Yes, can you hear me.

D

Yes, we can go ahead, yeah.

T

This is coming from a parent, um my kids go to let Lane and we've seen it. You know the before and after and it's just complete chaos. We agree with most people here. We believe that we, we just created a cumbersome situation from from a simple fix.

T

um We've seen, you know how we used to take 5-10 minutes to get home from that lane.

T

Although it's Morning Glory now it takes us close to 30 minutes so and we see cars, you know out of desperation and it's not I mean I, don't want to say it's not their fault, but out of desperation, they just go in the bike lane and that's something that is was not structure or or put in uh in paper like the gentleman is describing you know, there's cause and effects and I believe we have not seen in positive outcome here.

T

um We've seen, you know we, our bag is towards Latin land, and we hear you know cars going on these bumps breaking these barriers all the time. So so our belief is that at what point do we call it quits, meaning that how many of these um barriers are being destroyed?

T

On a daily weekly monthly basis that would have to be replaced in knowing where these funds coming from so when do we say enough is enough, because uh we've seen it like I said, go from something very useful in a four lane to to what we have now and we ask ourselves, you know why didn't we just put speed bumps and even cameras? You know that would create some some kind of a fun. You know start giving out tickets citations Etc, that's just that's just our beliefs. Thank you.

D

D

E

Thank you for recognizing me again. There was a couple things: I did not mention. I live one block from lad. Lane and I would like to reiterate where Mr agayo said, which is the traffic after school gets out or when, when school is people are dropping, their children off at school? Is horrible I've been out when school gets out and traffic backs up at the stop sign all the way back to the Talbot drive, and then people sit on the other side of glad of the crosswalk on on ladley.

E

um Nobody wants to give an inch um to let somebody in to make a turn or anything else. So I agree with what everybody's saying and I've seen it and the gentleman who was the engineer and said that it's a nightmare is completely 100.

E

Correct and I agree with all of the things that he's recommended or suggested um because I see it on a daily basis, just because of where I'm at and what I can see and I totally avoid, leaving my house between 3 and 3 30 because of the traffic congestion on that road and I agree with the speed is good because of the kids I've seen kids sit in the in the crosswalk stand at the light to change to cross and they can't because they don't even want to let the kids cross the street after they get out of school.

E

Thank you. Thank you.

H

So if, if you could for us, um discuss with your comments what you think about Orleans versus two lanes parking uh at the school uh delineators and roundabouts, so we can sort of hone in on those options that that we can consider that was addressed by Frederick's presentation. So, in addition to what your comments are, if you could sort of pepper those in we'd appreciate it.

U

um Hi um so I live on Sundance, which is a couple blocks over from uh south side, and my kids like to ride their bikes over to the school they go to. Lad, Lane and um I've noticed that myself, just as a driver and their concern has been when they try to cross the street they're using the crosswalk.

U

If a car is also trying to make a left turn and it's going to cross their path.

U

There's a little bit of a misconception of is that car making a left it looks I mean from there they're not checking to see if which way this car is going. I've I've stopped at that stop sign I've, seen people start walking and I've had to stop halfway into my turn, because there's some kids that are crossing and that's kind of the same complaint that my kids have been telling me that it's it's just maybe it's the distance, maybe the barrier.

U

The the um um the traffic circle just creates this misconception that oh this car's not going to be making a left over there. It's very serious and then we're here, for if the number one concern is about safety, I really don't see the traffic circle as uh providing that kind of safety, not if I'm I've seen it myself three times and I've had my own kids uh complaining about it.

U

um I personally, I I can't stand those traffic circles for making the left turn it's the short cement barriers, poles that are when you make the turn that block cars from going into the bike lane I understand. That's why they're there, but everything is just seems like just too close, even if you're going at a slow speed, there's just that risk that I'm gonna hit something and yeah and I. Don't think anybody wants to do that. So um the other concern is with the. What are those white poles called the delineators um I?

U

Don't I don't know, there's such an eyesore I get what they're intended to do, um but I think the worry is not that I'm zipping down south side anymore, but um the worries just that is that I'm gonna get something because I'm trying to avoid those yellow circles in the center divide and I've got those pulls and I'm weaving. In this you know: zigzag Direction, I, think it's just it's just too much for what drivers should be able to um be expected to handle for just driving home.

U

V

Hi, my name is Debbie um I'm, fourth generation we're five generations here and first of all, I mean this is just a total mess and an embarrassment, and although I appreciate um the public input, now I'm wondering why the residents City residents neighborhood residents, we weren't consulted before this mess, and then it was once a mess. It was on Jimmy Fallon I got a call from Amsterdam the next day. I mean talking about an embarrassment for Town, and now they even made it worse. With all these little.

V

This and that's roundabouts totally agree with the engineering enforcement cameras. We have police and I, see them behind Kmart every once in a while eating lunch doing other things in the cars I think we should be patrolling it more these roundabouts. If you go through that, every weekend, every night you have pictures of the burnouts, the donuts a couple from before the project. Let's look at them now: it's like an amusement park for kids. I live one block down from lad, Lane and I can hear them racing every night up and down the lane.

V

That's not deterred them at all. You got a few bumps. People are crossing and I'm one of them guilty. I, don't go around those roundabouts. If I don't have to you can't see you look at the damaged Vehicles, the glass every night there is I mean why again now we're talking about resources- and it was all about like oh- the residents aren't going to have to pay for that and I called baloney on that, because at the end we probably are going to have to pay for this we're going to take them out.

V

Why did we put them in to begin with? We have stop signs intersections. You never see any other city with roundabouts like this I mean it's, it's ridiculous, I, don't know who's who's, making the decisions again now we're being consulted again. We appreciate that now, but it's like how much longer you know how many more mistakes do we have to make before now we're being asked, and now we're going to take everything out. It was better before they're still racing they're still doing everything at night nobody's enforcing anything.

V

We should have enforcement I agree with Ryan everything. Everybody has said tonight: I'm just like rambling, because I like I, say: I live one block away and I hear this constant stuff going on. There's kids walking down the street. There's animals walking down the street. You can't see diddly those little pillars or whatever they are.

V

You go down and count how many are knocked down every night and what we've got to pay for that to go back up, don't tell me we're not paying because we know we are somewhere we're being so anyway, that's by Phil. Thank you all.

A

Right. Thank you all day of anyone online.

D

Miss Holly h.

W

Yes, can you hear me yes,.

D

We can go ahead: okay,.

W

So I ride my dog on my bike every day, and um you said you wanted to talk about two lanes versus four lanes when there was four lanes. I can go all the way up and down landline or lad Lane and South Side Road no problem now with it only being two lanes if I get to a intersection. I have to come to a stop because people don't feel like they have enough room for my dog and myself on my bike.

W

So they so instead of us just traveling, lad, Lane and South Side Road no problem the car has to come to a stop or I have to come to a stop so and the the biggest offender of this is if I'm coming from lad. Lane School to Paul, drive and I want to make a left down Paul. But someone is coming up from Paul and they want to make a left to Safeway.

W

I have to come to a stop because they pull out and will stop in the intersection because they feel like they don't have enough room to come out of Paul to make a left to go to Safeway.

W

So now that I understand that when I see a car on the stop sign on Paul trying to make a left to Safeway I waved I come to a stop and wave them through, because either they'll stop at the intersection freaking out that they're going to hit me in the dog or they'll just stay there and then I'll and we'll both just be kind of sitting there waiting for the other to go. So it's the it's.

W

It's only safer with the two lanes, if I'm next to the sidewalk um on the other side of the pylons or the white things, but as soon as I get to an intersection, all the safety is gone because before, if they saw me, they could change lanes and you know get away from us, but now they're kind of stuck- and you know, they're gonna we're gonna I can high five them hanging out the window.

W

They're super close to us at the intersections, so I agree with basically everyone that uh uh you can still hear the donuts I, don't know if rumble strips help or no one likes speed, humps, no one likes anything. But um whatever this thing was it.

X

W

H

It I have a question for you yeah, so I I here at see intersections and should I hear it's the roundabouts that you're concerned about no.

W

So the roundabouts make it so people if people are trying to pull out from Talbot or Paul, because that's where um that's where they can't come, if they're coming basically kind of toward me, they can't come because they feel like they can't make that turn, and so people now I've noticed. Are they don't deal with it? They just go down Nora and up Paul and go that way, so they don't have to go through all the ziggo zaga Maru on lad, Lane. So but yes, it's the intersections that are the worst hands down the worst.

H

And so are you riding your bicycle in the bike lane or in the travel Lane? Well,.

W

I'm in the I'm in the bike lane, but sometimes especially especially I, think her name was Carol that lives on tele yeah we're locked down between like 2, 45 and 3 30.. It is just you're not getting anywhere I, can't even there's no way I'm taking the dog out on the bike during those times it is so unsafe and if I'm out, when it's busy it's the safest place for me to be, is the sidewalk on my bike with the dog on the street?

W

Is not a thing and I write and I I ride my bike with the dog six to seven days a week without.

K

H

Thank you for helping me understand.

Y

Thank you. My name is Sam, and uh you know you know when those two rows are put in the city demanded to be put in the extra ride right away, four lanes and two lanes in each Direction, because it was designed to be in our arterial Street. It was made to move traffic.

Y

um Things have gotten a little out of hand with people racing and so on and so forth. uh If the intent was to stop the the parking in the parking Lane, you failed. They still continue to park in the especially when schools coming in and coming out, they're still parked in a bike lane, so it didn't work.

Y

uh You talked about you're, trying to slow it on the traffic and stop the sideshows, and you have pictures of it. Aerial views. Do it again, there's no change!

Y

You failed nobody's talking about the maintenance costs of this delineation and striping if the road was striped and maybe put in a speed table similar to Monterey, which would slow the traffic down you're not going to have anywhere near the maintenance costs that you're going to put up with now take a drive down through there and look at these Millennia, how many of them are been destroyed or removed, and they need to be replaced and the reason why I say they need to be replaced.

Y

Is you're worried about liability of a stop sign or what's your liability if your delineators are half down you're going to get some sharp attorney, take you to court you're going to eat you up? Okay, so it has to be maintained.

Y

uh The linear should keep referring to the cattle strand. Spec uh Caltrans is designed for linear traffic, not Serpentine traffic, like you have a Latin on South side, roads. It's not designed for that. People are complaining about vision and it should be it's a problem. That's not what Caltrans intent was when they put a 10 foot, spacing on a on a highway and Highway you're going down near there. You know a straight Road, so you know they say. Well, you, enforcement I think is a is a major thing.

Y

um Put cameras up, I mean if you can't afford the policeman afford the cameras. What you're going to spend in replacing is maintaining this draft control. You can easily afford cameras just mail, the ticket, so it.

T

Y

You somebody needs to take a harder look at what what they've done. What's working? What's not working we'll go start again. Thank.

I

You thank you, sir.

D

Mr Anthony.

Z

Hello, uh yeah I just had a quick question. I agree with everybody. That's uh you know has made a statement. um I also live on morning. Glory and my house backs up to you know the street here behind us. um I I just had a question in in regards to what whether speed bumps were ever considered as a as a Slowdown method and I I. Don't know if they were uh I've just heard that um you know thrown out there a couple times and just wanted to know.

H

So we need cushions are typically are.

H

The practice is not to install them on two-lane roads in each Direction so that most cities have adopted that standard that speed cushions are not placed on two roads with two lanes in each Direction.

Z

But considering that we went from two lanes down to one would that would that be a consideration.

H

Z

Got it okay, yeah I just know that they've been very effective with on some of the streets that I've been on uh to reduce. You know, speed.

I

Okay, thank you.

X

First off I just want to thank uh Madame Mia Casey for honestly putting this on. I mean this. Is she honestly did not have to do this and she's really going above and beyond so I I appreciate this um I also wanted to thank the account, not County, sorry city, engineer as well, that you guys are doing a fantastic job. uh You guys are following uh the metrics and things like that.

X

uh Secondly, I I, just kind of wanted to inform the public that, basically, the state of California, what they're trying to promote is basically um multi-module multimodal um transportation, in other words, encouraging biking, walking uh different sorts of.

X

Basically, um travel because, right now, our cities are basically planned as uh vehicle-centric meaning. The only way you can get around in the City of Hollister in the county is basically with the car that does not take into account with people with different abilities. So for those who don't walk, maybe those who just choose not to or those who cannot have a license so I actually like having the bike. Lanes I suggest keeping the bike lanes because that actually um lowers DMT VMT is vehicle miles traveled.

X

uh It also meets our uh some of our greenhouse gas emissions targets that the city needs to to meet by I, think 2030, um so just kind of as I said before I.

X

Actually, you know I think the only recommendations I would point to would be just the roundabout, because it's not a true roundabout, so I think it's messing with the the the flow I I might say, because it does seem kind of narrow, I, don't know if that would cost more money, but but it it does seem kind of those I know what you'd call them uh Circle things it does seem to defeat the purpose.

X

uh It's supposed to be a continuous flow, so so that's the only I guess: um complaint I have uh uh and just like I one last thing would be I think I saw it would be just to kind of continue that green striping to basically show that this is a bike lane and that's about it and, like I, said. Thank you so much um uh mayor, Mia Casey for honestly putting this on, and uh staff.

K

Hi I'm, Jerry, Wright and I live on Irma and I didn't introduce myself before so I believe that we I'd like to have four lanes back with the bike. Lanes and I think we need to have I. Think cameras are a great idea and I think we need to have more reinforcement or patrolling of this.

K

This city, the streets there and I- think that that turn that uh Mrs Hall mentioned about going behind Kmart is a ridiculous position, even though it wasn't part of your study, somehow it got done that needs to be opened up and and, as I said before, the left-hand turn line needs to be put back.

K

That's how I feel the street needs because I think that what was happening before continues to happen and I believe there were bike Lanes there when we had the four lane before, because I used to see Holly Henderson biking with the dog.

B

J

And my name is Dave Wright and I live on Irma and I agree with a lot of what's been said here. I, don't know if the engineers had given an estimate as what it's going to cost to maintain the system we have. Now we see a lot of these things knocked down the other day. I saw a bunch of kids out there, just pushing them over having fun watching them.

J

Bounce back um I also know that these speed cameras do work because we were in Italy and I didn't understand the language and I missed a toll road and two years later, I got a ticket. They got me so all right. Thank you. Yeah.

A

And just for a point: I'm I'm, not an expert on it, but I think there's been some Law changes around speed cameras and where they can be placed many years ago, you could put them everywhere and and now there's much more limitations on where they can be placed with the automatic ticketing and everything. So, unfortunately, we can't just put those up everywhere.

AA

Hi, my name's Stella and I live on Sundance I'm about three streets away from South Side Drive, I'm new to Hollister and I've, been here about two and a half years, and when I moved out here, I thought what a beautiful road that was outside right.

AA

You have four lanes: I, never seen a lot of traffic only during school hours, but it just seemed like you took away I understand.

AA

um You know the people doing donuts and racing down the street, but that hasn't changed. Anything because I still see those markings, especially around the roundabouts but um uh and I. Don't see this. This safety issue I just I I honestly see that it's it's gotten worse. It I have a hard time driving through there.

AA

um My vision isn't all that great and then going and seeing things these obstacles in front of me. It it just doesn't help me but I would love to see our our roads come back. I would love to see that four lane again and I agree with everybody else, maybe cameras or patrolling out there would be well worth spending the money on and instead of what we have out there now.

U

So I'll be quick, um so I also live on Sundance and, um if you remember maybe a couple years ago, they had a um traffic circle at Eastview in Cienega and for several times that trumpet Circle was just blown right through the sign. There was replaced several times and they finally got rid of that traffic circle over there.

U

um But my comment was so I kind of think that, based on that that the Travis circles don't work, but the the reason why I brought that up, because it reminds me that I actually I I hate, driving down, lad, Lane and South Side I actually go down Nash and then come down Cienega. And what I really like is what helps me, uh because yeah I'm kind of a little bit of a speed demon sometimes um is I like that.

U

It posts that it tells me my speed, I really like that and I wish, maybe as another calming measure, and they would do the little the sign that tells you your speed, how fast you're going on lad, Lane and South Side as an alternative, and please and straighten it out. It's just it's just zigzaggy, uh but yeah. So you know, just speaking from experience of just driving home coming down. Cienega I see this the speed limit thing.

U

It reminds me of how fast I'm going um and it just slows me down and I- don't need the traffic circle like that. So that's it.

L

So I just wanted to make a couple of comments. Unlike most people here, I don't live in that area. I do drive through there but um I'm a civil engineer who works here in town, so I often do work on roads um and that particular Road is a 64 foot curb to curb it's 80 foot right away. It was clearly designed and has over many years, been built to those standards, and that standard is a major arterial, collector standard within the city.

L

Engineering standards, so Southside Ranch I mean South. Side Estates was 1987, Scott Ranch, 1999, Kelly, Ranch 1999, the Tang subdivision, mostly referred to as Creek Bridge, was 2000 and then even Saddlebrook. Most recently, all those were built with those standards and built with sound walls along lad, Lane because of the type of Road it was and so for years it's been progressing, probably toward Union Road along a standard pattern and then, like I, said even most recently Saddlebrook when their work was done.

L

You know across from laddling school they're built to that same standard, so to suddenly kind of decide. It needs to be smaller, I think at least needed some more consideration after 30 years of building it along those lines and- um and you don't have driveways going on there- I mean it was built for a purpose to be a collector Street and at 32 feet for the half Road.

L

You have enough room for two lanes and still have a 10-foot bike lane there, or you know, I mean the delineators in my opinion, are a false sense of security for the bike lane, there's nothing. If a car is going to go through them, they can still go through them just being behind. The lineators doesn't inherently make the bike lane safer and particularly because it occurs.

L

M

L

Oh okay, sorry, um just because the linears are, there does not inherently make the bike lane safer. In fact, I think it could give people a false sense of security. You have enough room, there I think to have a good bike lane, but at a minimum, I think all the distill anyators north of hillock in the commercial area by Safeway and Kmart, need to go away at least have a turn lane into slate or um where the apartments are going to be. There's already approved, Apartments going in.

L

There are nine buildings with um seven units each here. They need to turn lane going in there and it's currently been taken away. um Some of the other comments, I just Echo. What other people are saying but I think you bought a wide Road there for a reason, and it should probably go be being used as a wide Road.

A

Thank you, I think I may have had one over. You can accommend that okay.

B

O

Hi um I would like to see lad. Lane remain as it is. We've spent a lot of money. I understand and I can appreciate the other comments being made here, but that road is a racetrack. Someone is going to be killed if it goes back to a four-lane highway and I personally would like to see it the way it is. We need to adjust to what we have and give it a chance and as far as cameras I've been told that there are new new laws um where you cannot.

O

Actually, even if you are um caught speeding, you can't be issued a ticket because I'm sorry, I really don't know. The details. I was just told this. That um cameras are not the answer because they can't be enforced.

B

V

um Sorry, uh just to piggyback on what I was saying before I am another concern is that the median in the road is bigger than the road itself. We need to consider just because Caltrans allows something or the green environment and allows something we need to consider our community. We live in farming, agriculture, engineering. All these, this, the people in our community, not the newcomers, I'm, nothing against that. We have a lot of trucks and trailers and everything traveling through there.

V

You have a pickup it's hard to even navigate that road, so I don't understand those little pillars that are giving more room for the bikes. Those could have been moved over three feet. There's still be room for the bikes unless people are traveling five bikes straight across. So that's the thing I think we need to consider our community where we're at who's traveling those roads, not just what Caltrans approves. This is okay. If we do it to make 10-foot roads for a 12-foot truck, that's it.

A

Thank you, Paul. Do we have anybody online.

W

uh Yeah I was just gonna, it's Holly again, um the one with the bike and the dog. um Oh sorry, uh I have no problem if one of the engineers or I can take them for the the ride that I take my dog and show him how unsafe it is at the intersections with the traffic circles. So if, if someone wants to get a hold of me, I have no problem showing them, because I may not explain it correctly, um showing them what I'm talking about physically.

H

I can reach out there. Oh.

W

No yeah it'd be my pleasure because I've I didn't I've only almost been hit at least three times now with this new design, and when it was four lanes, I I, never I was never nervous or there was never a close call until this new um traffic circle intersection, so I would I would be more than happy to meet. You can.

H

You reach out to me at the.

W

H

Yes, wonderful.

W

A

All right so we're getting close to eight o'clock. So if we have any final comments and we can do a wrap up, I think we've gone around the room and we'll pass it to our mayor.

C

Yeah I'm not going to add too much um I just want to say thank you to everyone for all the good conversation I think it needed. You know you needed a chance to vent or express your opinion.

C

um I'm. Not just the mayor. I live there, so I feel your pain. um I agree with a lot of the sentiments. There's a lot of unsafe things that are going on.

C

um I've witnessed kids almost being hit because they don't push those buttons and now I'm hearing the buttons don't work anyway, but they don't push the buttons there's a lot of them that travel across Talbot to get to South Side Estates to go to the high school and I've witnessed twice now where a truck will come and they don't signal and the kids start to cross thinking that they're safe and then the circle around almost getting them, and it's just it scares the heck out of me. So that's one of the things.

C

That's driven me to really push to to get this fixed I, don't like the circles. I, do not like the delineators I've when I'm in my my husband's truck I can see just fine, but when I'm in my little Kia, no I cannot see. I have to pull out to see and by then I'm out in the roadway, which is never a good thing.

C

um I just think it was a really good road and I think we did have bike lanes and I I've seen kids on the bikes I've seen people walking on those sidewalks I think it. It has the multimodal that we want, um but I think straightening it back out, making it safe and visible for everyone. That's my goal, uh one thing that wasn't mentioned and I only because I've spent a lot of time reviewing all the traffic stuff in the accidents and they're. You know one of the things that I did see.

C

Speeding was right in front of the school and nothing was really done right in front of the school. I'd really really like to see a speed table like they have on Monterey to just slow people down there, because that's where the kids are all Crossing after school and and we don't want cars racing in that little right in front of the school, so I would love to see that be considered and I kind of agree with everyone about kind of straightening things back out and opening it back up.

C

So um thank you all for for coming. I really appreciate the input from everyone.

A

D

Thank you mayor.

A

Glenn any final remarks this evening.

H

We have a lot of uh things to convey to the city council. uh We will probably bring a report to City Council in August. uh Keep your eye out for the agendas and you'll be able to see the report prior to giving it prior to us, presenting it to the city council in the agenda packet. So keep an eye out for that and um I I think.

H

Our city council is um very dedicated to making the necessary changes out here and um I've been here since March, and it's really clear to me that the city council wants to address all these issues, so we'll provide a report to the city council and they will tell us what direction uh to go in.

H

So thank you all for attending.

A

Yeah, thank you Glenn, and so, if you go on our website on the right hand, side there is an area to subscribe, where you can get all of our agendas. So not just for this. But if you want to get all of our agendas, you'll be on an emailing list. We sent all of them through there. So that's the best way to get them and I'll give it back to Frederick to say a few things.

I

Just one more item: the survey: that's online, it's still going to be open for another couple of weeks. So for any of those who have not completed that survey bank, it's really easy. You can even do it on your cell phone. Please go that's a really there's some excellent comments, so I think please go and fill out those you cannot respond twice.

A

All right, thank you, and, and thank you Christian thank you Paul and thank you everybody for coming out. We really appreciate it this evening. Thank you.