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From YouTube: 07-12-2023 Common Council Committee of the Whole
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A
A
I
would
also
just
like
to
remind
the
public
that
for
special
meetings
of
council
such
as
this
Committee
of
the
whole,
there
is
no
public
comment.
Members
of
the
public
have
anything
they
want
to
share
with
Council.
They
can
certainly
email
email.
Us
I
also
want
to
acknowledge
that
we
have
a
guest
tonight,
Dr
Ian
Coyle.
Who
is
the
consultant
who
has
presented
to
council
a
few
weeks
ago
last
month
and
he
is
with
us
tonight
as
we
begin
our
discussion
I
know
at
one
point,
this
was
advertised
as
a
special
budget
meeting.
A
Thank
you
all
right,
we're
going
to
begin
tonight
this
special
order
of
business,
discussing
salaries,
and
we
will
start
with
a
discussion
of
the
city
manager
and
let
me
say
that
I
have
sent
out
a
number
of
emails
to
council
today
and
my
apologies
that
I
was
sending
some
material.
Today,
it's
been
an
unusually
busy
and
hectic
week
actually
two
weeks,
so
my
apologies
for
sending.
A
Sending
information
today,
but
the
discussion
about
city
manager,
salary,
will
also
be
informed.
A
great
deal
in
fact
be
led
by
Ian
Coyle.
A
We
have
benchmarking
from
other
municipalities.
We
wanted
to
make
sure
that
we
were
sharing
accurate
information.
Some
of
the
information
from
other
municipalities
was
sourced
from
icma
some
sourced
from
other
city
managers
themselves,
so
we
did
not
want
to
inundate
people's
Council.
We
certainly
did
not
want
to
share
information
that
was
not
current
and
and
accurate,
so
Ian
in
talking
about
the
salary
ranges
for
city
manager,
I,
wonder
if
I
could
turn
it
to
you.
First
for
some
of
the
information
that
you
have
gathered
in
your
reviews,.
B
Sure
be
happy
to
so.
What
I
thought
I
would
do
is
just
sort
of
review
what
I'm,
seeing
and
maybe
just
an
objective
analysis
of
where
I
think,
if,
if
I
was
to
be
asked
to
make
any
recommendations
where
I
I
think
the
council
should
be
in
terms
of
of
a
pay
range
and
sort
of
give
you
some
context
as
to
where
I
came
up
with
that.
Would
that
be
okay?
Or
would
you
like
me
to
do
something
different.
B
You
all
right
so
to
just
sort
of
set
the
table.
I
think
you're
you're
at
that
last
point
in
time
of
the
search
process,
the
last
interval
or
the
last
phase,
or
segment
where
you're
talking
about
a
search
committee.
You're
talking
about
salary.
So
you
know
those
are
the
the
final
pieces.
I
guess
you
could
say
the
finishing
touches
in
order
to
basically
go.
B
You
know
full
bore
with
a
recruitment
process
to
try
to
then
source
and
eventually
Place,
someone
in
the
position
of
city
manager,
so
I
think
that
I
would
start
by
saying
that
that,
at
the
end
of
the
day,
the
council
needs
to
be
comfortable
with
what
they're
going
to
pay
the
individual.
B
Regardless
of
you
know
what
I
say
or
think,
so
you
need
to
be
comfortable
with
that.
No
matter
what
that
what
that
is.
B
So
let
me
just
start
there
bluntly
speaking:
I
think
that
the
number
needs
to
be
higher
than
some
of
the
numbers
that
I
that
I've
at
least
seen
thrown
around
with
some
of
the
materials
that
I've
seen
in
the
run-up
to
where
we
are
today,
like
some
of
the
exchanges
that
were
had
in
the
the
run-up
to
the
discussion
about
the
city
manager
and
the
chief
of
staff
pay
and
what
the
mayor
was
going
to
make
and
things
of
that
nature.
B
So
let
me
just
give
you
a
little
bit
of
context
of
where
I'm
coming
from
so
New
York
in
in
the
Northeast
in
particular,
are
a
little
bit
under
where
I
think
you
would
see
nationally
the
trend
going
for
what
city
managers
make.
B
B
Presently,
when
you
look
at
a
survey
of
about
a
dozen
city
managers,
so
we
have
of
course
Village
in
Town
and
County,
but
specifically
speaking
for
city
managers
and
Council
manager,
former
government,
the
New
York
State
average,
looking
at
those
numbers,
is
about
a
hundred
and
sixty
thousand
dollars.
There's
a
low
of
120
125
ish
it's
about
123.5
and
there's
a
high
of
between
250
and
270
000.
Now
that
is
the
city
of
New
Rochelle,
which
has
a
population
of
81
000..
So
you
know
those
are
just
some.
B
You
know
numbers
as
far
as
where
New
York
State,
sits.
I
will
say
that
the
city
manager
Market
itself
right
now
in
2023
and
sort
of
we're
looking
to
find
someone
who
will
be
starting
in
2024,
but
just
for
just
for
looking
at
2023
and
I
said
this
a
little
bit
the
last
time
we
met
it's
ultra
competitive.
It's
changed.
It's
changed
drastically
in
the
years
post
covet,
especially
as
it
does
relate
to
pay.
B
Icma
was
mentioned.
So,
just
let
me
refresh
that
the
international
City
County
management
association,
which
you
have
had
some
data
in
your
process,
to
investigate
the
the
benefits
of
a
city,
manager
or
Council
manager,
form
of
government,
that
is,
the
professional
association
of
City
Town
Borough
Village
County
Administrator
managers.
It's
about
10,
000,
Plus
members,
they're,
not
all
city
managers,
you
know
dominated
by
I,
would
say
kind
of
small
to
medium-sized
cities
and
city
managers.
B
So
that's
the
Professional
Association
group
of
of
people
that
are
practicing
city
managers
across
the
country
Unfortunately.
They
are
not
regularly
doing
a
salary
report
and
Analysis
like
they
used
to
do
many
years
ago.
I
think
they're
due
to
update
that.
But
I
would
like
to
just
speak
to
that.
Briefly.
Before
moving
on
to
my
next
point,
the
icma
put
together
report.
It
included
1120
municipalities.
It
was
2018
data,
so
that's
my
first
asterisk
that
was
a
in
the
segment
of
population
that
Ithaca
was
in
the
median
manager.
B
B
The
council
I
think
needs
to
factor
in
some
things
of
the
cost
of
living
in
Ithaca
sort
of
what
I
call
the
the
kind
of
micro
economy,
the
cost
of
housing.
Things
like
that.
B
Looking
at
college
towns,
incidentally,
I've
I've,
had
an
individual
inquire
of
me
about
the
position
in
a
couple
of
different
states
that
actually
two
individuals
have
just
seen
the
the
news
reports
and
are
potentially
interested
in
the
position
and
they're.
Both
you
know
a
very
attractive
candidates.
B
They
are
looking
in
the
range
of
probably
175
to
210
000,
based
on
either
what
they
make
right
now
or
what
they're
being
recruited
for
I
sort
of
tried
to
ground
truth
a
little
bit
this
very
objectively
with
some
sitting
sitting
city
managers
in
New,
York
state
who
are
not
interested
in
the
position
all
with
experience
all
with
mpas,
well
respected
in
the
profession,
to
sort
of
ground
truth,
my
assumptions
and
and
guesses
here
they
were
not
told
what
I
was
seeing
in
the
range
all
believe
that
that
needed
to
be
a
much
higher
number
than
what
was
being
floated
previously.
B
So
that's
sort
of
where
I
think
that
the
number
sits
in
a
in
a
nutshell.
A
couple
of
references
are
made
in
the
in
the
Publications
and
I've
seen
that
the
number
would
be
slightly
more
than
the
Chief
of
Staff
pay,
which
I
think
was
like
around
120.
I've,
seen
a
number
of
around
160..
B
So
again,
I
I,
I,
guess
I
apologize
if
it's
sticker
Shack,
but
I
also
want
to
be
very
transparent
and
truthful
to
you.
As
far
as
what
I
see
in
the
marketplace,
where
I
think
it
is
competitive,
wise,
where
I
see
Ithaca
trying
to
attract
a
a
national,
you
know
search,
you
know,
I
think
that
you
to
attract
National
searches-
it's
not
just
necessarily
benchmarking
to
New,
York,
well,
I
think
that
is
indeed
important.
B
I
think
it's
also
benchmarking
too,
where
the
position
needs
to
be
from
a
really
a
national
profile,
because
I
think
that's
what
you'll
be
searching
for
and
from
in
terms
of
a
pool
and
a
candidate
mix.
I
also
think
that
you
know
when
we
look
at
numbers
and
things
like
this
and
it's
easy
for
me
to
say
as
the
outside
individual
you
have
to
sort
of
own
the
process.
You
have
to
be
comfortable
with
it.
You
have
to
be
able
to
speak
to
your
constituent
base
about
what
you're
paying
or
not
paying.
B
You
know
this.
This
position
right,
but
I,
look
at
it
like
you
know.
The
candidate
pool
I
think
that's
going
to
be
attracted
at
the
higher
end
of
that
range
will
more
than
make
up
the
difference
of
what
that,
on
an
absolute
hour,
value
basis.
That
difference
is
whether
it
be
40
000,
whether
it
be
fifty
thousand
whatever
that
difference
is
annually.
B
I
would
think
that
that
individual,
with
their
capabilities
with
their
ability
to
drive
efficiencies,
do
great
work,
I
think
they're
going
to
make
up
that
number
many
times
over
and
also
I.
Think
I
would
encourage
you
to
look
at
that
number
as
in
juxtapose
against
the
you
know,
the
size
of
the
budget,
the
size
of
the
population.
B
So
if
I
was
looking
at
this
strictly
objectively
looking
at
the
competition
looking
at
how
things
have
changed,
I
think
that
range
needs
to
be
somewhere
in
that
with
at
least
having
a
top
end
range,
if
you're
not
comfortable
with
that
particular
number
in
that
neighborhood
of
200,
000
plus
dollars
and
I'd
be
happy
to
answer
any
questions
specifically
about
the
city
manager,
paying
where
I
think
that
is
at
this
point
in
time.
A
Thank
you,
and-
and
you
said
this
Ian,
but
just
to
reiterate
a
couple
of
the
factors
that
you
have
mentioned
in
even
presenting
this
range-
our
cost
of
living
cost
of
housing,
the
current
market
for
city
managers.
From
what
I
recall
you
saying
there
are
a
number
of
city
managers-
searches
going
on
right
now,
so
it
is
a
competitive
market
for
such
positions.
C
C
A
I
will
turn
it
over
to
two
members
who
were
on
that.
The
task
force
and
those
are
Rob
Gerhard
and
Donna.
Fleming
I
will
say
that
proposal
and
figures
from
2018.
A
That
is
a
significant
time
lapse
from
2018
to
current
and
inflation
has
been
pretty
serious.
So
let
me
turn
it
over.
C
Again
because
I
agree
with
what
you
just
said
at
the
time,
the
city,
the
chief
of
staff,
salary,
was
only
120
000..
This
is
a
40
30
to
40
percent,
increase,
effective
2018.,
so
I
I'm
with
you
that
there's
inflationary
pressures
that
we
have
to
reconcile
with
I'm
just
curious
how
we
were
off
with
data
that
we're
three
years
old
at
the
time.
D
So
I
I'm,
not
sure
I.
Remember
the
details
of
how
we
collected
that
particular
information.
D
I
would
love
to
have
had
Ian
Coyle
with
us
back
then,
when
we
were
doing
this
kind
of
work
to
help
us
sort
through
that
data.
So
it's
quite
possible.
We
didn't
really
understand
ithaca's
position
in
that
market
against
other
markets
and
maybe
didn't
go
to
the
mid
or
high
range
of
what
those
average
salaries
were
I.
Don't
I
I'm,
not
sure
what
you
mean
by
what
we
told
the
public
about
about
a
number
I.
C
D
The
so
okay,
so
so
yeah
I
guess
slightly-
might
have
been
an
inappropriate
way
to
lead
into
that,
but
it
is
more
than
we
would
be
paying
the
chief
of
staff
and
I
think
that
was
understood,
but
I'll
ask
Donna
if
she
has
any
better
Recollections
of
that
specific
number.
At
that
time.
E
E
Perhaps
we
failed
to
do
a
thorough
market
research,
but
I,
then
I
had
thought
that
the
salary
would
be
roughly
140
150.
Something
like
that.
So,
yes,
I'm,
very
surprised
by
the
200
number.
A
F
I
think,
obviously,
the
the
world
had
gone
through
a
dramatic
change
between
the
time
this
was
envisioned
and
the
numbers
we
have
now
and
obviously
the
financial
situation
and
inflation
was
nowhere
near
I
mean
you.
If
you
told
someone
three
years
ago,
that
we'd
be
facing
inflation
of
eight
nine
percent
I
think
most
people
would
have
thought
it
crazy.
F
But
that
being
said,
I
do
recognize
that
the
chief
of
staff
is
assistant
to
the
mayor
and
only
has
the
responsibilities
and
authorities
designated
to
them
by
the
authorities
vested
in
the
mayor
as
the
Chief
Executive
Officer
of
this
organization,
who
has
in
their
discretion
and
their
responsibility,
they
take
on
the
liability
and
obligations
of
the
entire
city,
as
well
as
the
Departments
themselves,
whether
or
not
we're
talking
about
the
issuing
of
debt,
whether
or
not
we're
talking
about
the
regulation
of
facilities
that
have
direct
impact
on
people's
physical
health,
their
environmental
health,
you
know,
obviously,
the
safety
and
well-being
of
the
community.
F
It
does
seem
appropriate
that
a
city
manager
would
make
more
than
a
chief
of
staff.
You
know
who,
who
only
has
limited
liability
and
isn't
actually
making
they're,
not
an
elected
official
they're,
not
making
decisions
on
behalf
of
of
the
municipality,
so
I
think
it's
absolutely
reasonable
that
it's
higher
being
said
again.
A
lot
of
factor
is
different
between
now
and
2018
that
we're
all
facing.
G
I
Ari,
no
thank
you.
Yeah
I
just
do
want
to
clarify
Cynthia
I
used
the
word
liability
a
few
times
there
I
assume
you
don't
mean
that
in
the
legal
and
financial
literal
sense,
because
I
do
want
to
clarify
that
the
city
manager,
like
any
other
city
official,
would
enjoy
defense
and
indemnity
from
the
city
itself
for
most
any
claims
against
them.
It's
it's.
The
the
particulars
are
actually
spelled
out
in
the
city,
Charter.
F
Clever,
the
officer
or
chief
operator
of
a
water
and
wastewater
treatment
plant
can
personally
go
to
jail
depending
on
how
that
that
facility
is
administered.
So,
while
I
recognize
they
do
have
protections
bestowed
upon
them
because
of
the
the
legal
defense
offered
them
by
the
city.
I
do
recognize
that
the
responsibility
that
the
city
has
and
those
decisions
that
the
cities
make
does
come
with,
maybe
not
personal.
A
I
I
will
point
out.
As
Cynthia
has
indicated,
the
city
manager
will
be
the
CEO
of
a
complex
organization
with
400
plus
employees,
with
department
heads
to
be
overseen
with
labor
contracts
that
the
city
manager
would
be
part
of
negotiating
with
budgets
to
be
built.
A
So
it
is
a
very
involved
and
responsible
position,
and
the
task
group
in
2018
I
think
did
a
good
job
of
looking
at
the
duties
and
responsibilities
to
Peg
at
that
date,
though,
at
that
time,
in
2018
specifics,
around
salary
I
think
had
to
have
been
a
challenge.
It
is
clear
and
the
task
group
did
indicate
that
city
manager
would
be
paid
more
than
the
chief
of
staff.
B
Could
I
just
make
one
point
I'm
sorry
to
interrupt
and
interject
with
the
council
discussions,
but
because
it
made
just
one
point
on
the
on
this
comment
that
actually
kind
of
like
the
bulk
Rob
question
and
the
other
Rob
commented
on.
Yes,
the
icma
data
was
was
available.
B
It
would
have
been
searched,
for
it
would
have
been
there,
probably
for
the
taking
I
I'm
I'm
guessing
without
relying
too
much
on
the
granular
level
detail
of
what
was
available
at
that
point
in
time
from
places
like
Nikon
or
surveying
just
New,
York
New
York
state
only
municipalities
with
a
CM
form
of
government,
knowing
that
those
New
York
local
governments
at
this
point
in
time
have
an
average
of
around
160
000.
It
wouldn't
have
surprised
me
back
then
that
that
average
might
have
been.
B
You
know,
135
140,
something
like
that
as
a
blended
average,
so
that
that
would
have
probably
led
someone
to
make
a
comment
that
you
know
probably
not
much
more
than
we're
paying
at
this
point
in
time.
That
all
being
said,
you
know
that
the
fast
forward
button
I
think
has
to
be
pressed,
and
it
has
to
be
that
you
know.
Where
are
we
today
and
you
know
minimally
in
New
York
state
I
can
tell
you
that
the
average
is
somewhere
in
that
number
I
can
tell
you
they
had
adjusted
for
inflation.
B
A
H
So
I'm
just
like
I'm
just
feeling
here
again
we're
going
to
have
someone-
and
maybe
this
is
my
personal
stuff
of
once
again
we're
going
to
have
someone
paid
all
this
money
and
I
I.
Don't
know
I'm
gonna
keep
sitting
on
it,
because
I'm
not
comfortable
with
the
city
manager
and
I.
Wasn't
here
and
I
wasn't
a
part
of
the
studies
that
y'all
did
and
how
important
it
is
for
a
city
manager
and
stuff
like
that,
but
yeah
so
I'm
having
some
uncomfortability
I'm
having
some
uncomfortability
with
250
000.
H
When
we,
when
we
heard
this
budget,
is
not
really
a
great
our
budget,
this
year
is
not
going
to
be
that
great,
unless
it's
greater
than
y'all
really
telling
us
all
of
that,
being
incons
taken
in
consideration
is,
is
like
okay
and
we
still
getting
how
much
thousand
dollars,
but
so
I'm
saying
is
all
that
being
taken
in
consideration
about
when,
when
I
don't
know,
I
I
just
thought
that
these
kind
of
jobs
is
something
that
people
come
with
their
heart
and
they
really
like
doing
this
kind
of
job.
A
Well,
Phoebe,
let
me
let
me
clarify
two
points,
one
as
we
move
to
this
structure
of
city
government,
with
with
Thunder
with
a
council
and
city
manager,
there
will
not
be
a
chief
of
staff,
so
there
is
not
that
redundancy.
That's
one
one
important
thing
so
there's
not
that
additional
layer,
the
city
manager,
will
be
the
CEO
and
the
rain.
You
you
mentioned
two
hundred
fifty
thousand
dollars.
I
wasn't
hearing
that
number
Ian
did
you?
Did
you
no.
B
I
I
think
what
Phoebe
was
referencing
when
I
referenced
the
individual
city
manager,
salaries
of
those
New
York
State
cities
with
a
city
manager.
One
of
those
which
is
New
Rochelle
is
in
that
range
that
probably
what
she
I
think
what
she
meant
and.
A
That's
not
the
range
that
I
believe
we
will
be
looking
at.
What
I
heard
Ian
suggest
is
that
Council
would
want
to
consider,
arrange
and
the
top
of
that
range
being
in
the
two
hundred
thousand
dollar.
So
two
key
points.
I
Yeah
no
I
I
appreciate
the
work
that
was
done
to
to
get
us
to
this
point
and
I
understand
that
we
were.
There
were
a
lot
of
unforeseen
circumstances.
I
You
know
that
led
us
to
this
point
of
not
having
the
most
accurate,
up-to-date
information,
but
I
can't
help,
but
feel
that
that
we
are
in
a
very
precarious
situation
in
terms
of
I.
Don't
I,
don't
think
that
if
the
public
was
aware
of
what
we
would
be
looking
at
in
terms
of
of
costs
for
the
city
manager,
I,
don't
think
that
would
have
changed
whether
a
referendum
would
have
passed
or
not.
I
But
I
do
believe
that
there
would
have
been
more
pause
for
concern
or
pause
for
discussion
for
a
lot
of
folks
who
voted
in
favor
of
this
and
I
can't
help,
but
feel
that
a
lot
there's
going
to
be
a
lot
of
frustration
over
a
lot
of
people
feeling
that
they
weren't
making
the
most
informed
of
decisions
when
they
went
to
go
vote
for
this
and
I
think
we
were
hoping
to
accomplish
creating
as
much
transparency
as
possible
and
I
don't
mean
to
be
like
a
Monday
Morning
Quarterback.
I
Here
and
and
suggest
that
folks
should
have
navigated
things
that
they
couldn't
foresee
like
like
the
pandemic
and
whatnot
and
and
the
inflation
that
we're
dealing
with.
But
that
range
is
is,
is
not
what
we
were.
Anticipating
and
I
can't
help,
but
feel
that
you
know
as
myself
as
a
member
of
council,
but
also
as
a
member
of
the
public,
that
this
wasn't
exactly
what
we
were
billing.
J
D
So
I
understand
the
concern
yeah
I
wish.
We
had
a
crystal
ball
when
we
were,
we
were
making
these
pitches
to
the
public,
but
I
I.
Think
George's
point
is
important.
Dr
Coyle
brought
that
up
as
well.
That
the
intents
for
having
this
former
government
is
that
we'll
be
more
efficient
as
a
City
municipal
organization,
and
that
has
some
savings
right
there
I.
Don't
we
also
shouldn't
take
this
out
of
context
right,
so
we
still
have
yet
to
have
the
conversation
about
how
much
salary
our
mayor
will
make.
D
So
when
we
look
at
a
combination,
we
may
not
be
far
off
depending
on
where
we
land
with
that.
So
I
think
it's
important
to
keep
those
things
in
mind
and
let's
be
clear
on
another
thing
too.
These
numbers
are
big
for
all
of
us,
even
those
who
of
us
who
did
some
study
of
this
and
partly
they're
big.
For
the
same
reason,
we
probably
have
a
sticker
shock
around
our
next
police
chief
and
our
next
controller
and
our
next,
you
know
HR
person,
I.
D
Think
all
of
these
positions
that
we're
going
to
have
to
replace
in
the
near
future
are
probably
going
to
cost
us,
well,
probably
cost
us
more
than
they
had
and
maybe
more
than
we
believe
they
should,
but
that's
the
reality
of
our
organization
with
the
size
of
our
budget,
the
size
of
our
organization
in
terms
of
number
of
employees
and
how
we
negotiate
with
them.
There's
a
there's
a
lot
going
on
here
and
I.
Think
that's
an
important
thing
to
keep
in
mind
and
I.
Agree.
A
Well
said,
and
I
am
glad
that
you
put
it
in
the
context
of
other
searches
that
we
will
be
engaged
in
this
year.
We
have
a
number
of
senior
level
positions
and
we
have
to
be
looking
at
the
current
market,
not
the
market.
When
someone
started
their
position
a
number
of
years
ago,
not
the
market.
When
was
pre-pandemic
and
pre
inflation
that
has
had
a
deep,
deep
impact
on
our
municipality
as
well
as
others
since
2018..
So
thank
you
for
that.
Rob,
I,
think
Phoebe
and
then
Cynthia.
A
H
I
wanted
to
apologize
because
I
really
do
understand
now
there
won't
you
know
there
it.
There
will
be
money
in
in
the
budget
if
we
don't
have
a
chief
of
staff
that
will
that
that
that
frees
up
some
money.
It
also.
It
also
just
scared
me
again,
thanks
reminding
that
we
will
be
having
some
bigot
ticket
item
money
for
people
who
are
leaving.
You
know
so
so
I'm
just
thinking
in
my
head
of
of
of
hoping
that
the
city
manager
will
be
able
to
help
save
yeah.
So.
A
I
apologize
yeah,
no
thanks.
Actually
I
I
appreciate
you
asking
that
question
because
I
wanted
to
be
completely
clear
and
transparent
for
for
the
public
and
the
market.
We're
in
right
now
is
a
very,
very
different
market
and
we,
as
an
organization,
want
to
be
able
to
attract
the
best
people
who
will
have
the
the
objective
of
working
efficiently
and
effectively
within
city
government
and
being
responsive
to
our
departments,
to
our
residents
to
our
taxpayers.
A
So
there
is
I
believe
benefit
that
will
come
Financial
benefit
that
will
come
from
hiring
the
best
people
in
these
key
positions,
city
manager,
being
at
the
top
of
the
list
of
key
positions,
I
had
Cynthia
them
back
or
Rob.
Did
you
have
something.
D
On
that
point,
just
one
quick
thing:
Cynthia,
if
it's
okay
with
you
I,
just
want
to
clarify
one
point,
because
we've
we've
talked
about
how
we
have
a
expectation
that
the
city
manager
will
help
the
city
be
efficient
and
save
money.
D
But
I
want
to
clarify
for
my
colleagues
as
well
as
this
public
and
mostly
from
my
colleagues
sitting
in
the
back
of
the
room,
Steve
Thayer
who's,
one
of
those
positions
we're
going
to
need
to
replace
and
big
shoes
to
fill,
who
has
done
an
amazing
job
of
being
very
efficient
with
the
city
resources.
So
I
don't
want
to
imply
that
that
hasn't
happened.
It's
just
that
we
have
even
greater
expectations,
but
so
thank
you,
Steve!
D
F
Thank
you,
I
I
think
we've
all
recognized
the
the
benefits
that
a
professional
city
manager
will
bring
to
our
increasingly
complex
and
dynamic
organization
to
have
that
level
of
professionalism
to
have
an
individual
who
brings
with
them
both
consistency
over
time
and
regardless
of
elected
officials
that
come
in
and
out
with
different
policy
objectives
and
so
on.
F
Because,
as
we
know,
you
can
have
11
new
managers
every
two
years
that
is
going
to
take
the
city
in
different
directions
and
so
to
be
able
to
have
that
continuity
and
that
long-term
Vision
that
will
oversee
our
operations
is,
is
essential.
F
I
think
one
of
the
things
that
we
also
have
to
recognize
is
we
also,
as
an
organization,
have
gone
through
ups
and
downs,
and
it
has
been
our
staff
that
has
carried
the
burden
of
us
trying
to
navigate
the
financial
crash
of
2008
slowly
reinvesting
in
our
Public
Works
after
years
of
deferred
maintenance
and
neglect
our
management,
our
department
heads
our
Council
and
the
mayor,
as
you
can
see,
have
not
had
salary
increases.
F
We
are
facing
that
sticker
shock
of
not
keeping
up
with
Market
wages
during
this
time.
So
as
difficult
as
this
is
I
think
it's
essential.
We
we
all
take
great
pride
in
our
organization
and
I,
think
we
want
to
attract
the
best
and
brightest
and
and
keep
them.
C
You
I
just
want
to
in
the
in
the
same
Spirit
as
Rob's
comment
to
staff
in
the
room
about
financial
management
and
Cynthia's.
I
want
to
be
very
clear.
I
appreciate,
Ian's
clarification
about
the
data
from
nycom,
and
things
like
that.
I,
don't
at
all
suggest,
I
mean
I.
Do
support
us,
paying
whatever
we
need
to
to
get
the
best
person
for
this
job.
I
just
was
confused
as
to
how
our
data
didn't
align
foreign.
A
B
No
I
mean
I
think
the
points
made
are
are
valid,
I
I,
believe
you
know,
particularly.
You
know,
Jorge's
comment
about.
You
know
having
some
challenge
internally
that
that
maybe
we
as
a
city
or
you,
a
city
kind
of,
went
out
with
with
X
and
and
it
still
would
be
supportive.
Nonetheless,
I
I
think
the
it's
a
it's
a
very
fair
point.
It's
available,
it's
a
valid.
You
know,
qualm
I,
think
the
I
guess.
B
The
answer
you
could
say
is
that
the
Dynamics
certainly
have
changed,
even
even
to
the
time
that
you
did
that
report,
you
know
the
Dynamics
have
changed.
There
has
been
kind
of
a
level
setting
or
right
sizing
and
I'm,
not
saying
the
trajectory
is
like
this,
but
the
direct
trajectory
did
go.
You
know
up
as
far
as
where
these
positions
are
being
paid
and
how
they're
being
paid
in
terms
of
where,
in
terms
of
the
level
and
the
dollar
amount.
B
So
but
no
I
mean
all
fair
points
and
and
good
commentary,
and
you
know
really
for
the
purposes
of
recruitments
in
general.
No
matter
what
number
you
would
kind
of
settle
on
or
Center
on,
I
strongly
recommend
dollars
and
I
strongly
recommend
you
know
a
range
and
having
it
having
to
sort
of
be
very
transparently
placed
in
that.
So
individuals
know
what
you
know
what
they
might
be
walking
into
from
a
compensation
perspective.
B
I
just
have
one
one
little
thing
that
to
share
with
Phoebe
I
think
that
the
it
may
seem
that
way
because
of
that
large
dollar
amount,
but
I
think
you
find
a
lot
more
Public,
Service
motivation,
oriented
individuals
in
this
profession
than
you
do.
Compensation,
motivation,
oriented
people
in
this
profession,
so
I
think
certainly
we're
trying
to
find
the
people
that
are
oriented
towards
you
know
the
value
of
the
work
and
and
the
profession
of
public
management,
as
opposed
to
you
know,
dollar
Chasers
and
the
like.
B
So
you
know
just
wanted
to
make
a
just
a
comment
on
that.
I
know
where
you're
coming
from,
but
just
where,
where
I
would
be
coming
from
from
the
recruitment
perspective,
is
trying
to
make
sure
that
you
know
we're
finding
those
types
of
people.
A
Do
we
want
to
as
a
council,
do
you
as
Council,
want
to
offer
your
thoughts
on
salary
range
and
as
people
think
about
that
question,
Ian
could
I
ask
you
what
what
amount
of
flexibility
or
amount
of
range
would
you
suggest
not
the
actual
ranges,
but
you
know
twenty
thousand
thirty
thousand
thirty
five
thousand
dollar
range.
What
would
you
suggest.
B
Probably
in
the
lower
thresholds
of
those
numbers
that
you
just
rattled
off
Laura
I
mean
probably
in
the
20
to
25
000
range,
so
I
mean
again.
If
it
was
posed,
I
would
think
that
a
you
know
that
range
of
175
to
200
ish
would
be
appropriate.
Given
what
I've
heard,
at
least
from
some
of
the
commentary
from
Council.
H
Is
that
including
the
package,
health
and
insurance,
and
all
that?
That's
not
that's.
B
K
B
Can
speak
to
that
from
the
purposes
of
a
recruitment
that
nine
times
out
of
ten
it
will
reference
a
a
salary
and
it'll
say
you
know,
inclusive
or
in
addition
to
the
candidate
will
be
afforded
a
benefit
package
of
X
and
I
know.
Certainly,
there's
a
discussion
on
you
know
the
the
employment
agreement,
particulars
of
what
you
often
find
in
that
type
of
a
package,
but
yeah
I
mean
certainly
health
insurance
participation
in
the
New
York
State
retirement
system.
B
You
know
afforded
time
off
and
those
type
of
things
in
addition
to
whatever
you
know
your
your
selected
candidate
may
be
inquiring
of
on
top
of
that
I
I
wouldn't
know,
but
yeah
I
mean
certainly
that
and
it's
it's
hard
I
understand
the
comment.
It's
hard
to
you
know
quantify
those
things
and
I
think
it's
just
an
expectation
that
those
will
be
afforded
a
full-time
salary.
Ceo
of
the
of
the
of
the
city.
B
For
council's
deliberation,
the
terms
of
like
total
cost
and
transparency-
you
know
100,
yes,
you,
you
need
to
be
comfortable,
you
know
going
in
knowing
that
it
is
say.
The
number
is
you
know:
200
it's
200,
plus
a
7.65
Steve
can
start
railing
them
off.
You
know
the
FICA
Social
Security,
the
retirement
system,
participation
rate,
the
average
cost
of
a
health
insurance
plan,
things
of
that
nature,
which
which
goes
with
it
any
you
know,
full-time
equivalent,
employee
of
the
city.
A
Yeah,
thank
you
valid
points
about
The
Fringe
package,
and
that
is
a
real
cost.
George.
J
It's
a
it
it's
important
to
me
that
they
should
get
the
benefits
that
other
city
employees
get,
but
they
shouldn't
have
a
big
cherry
on
top
with
extra
benefits.
G
Yeah
and
I
was
actually
just
about
to
interject
with
a
point
much
along
those
lines,
which
is
that
when
we
get
to
item
agenda
item
to
be
tonight,
which
is
the
template
employment
agreement,
we
can
discuss
what's
in
there,
but
but
the
short
version
of
it
where
fringe
benefits
is
concerned,
is
that
it
specifies
that
the
city
manager
would
receive
the
same
fringe
benefits
as
the
managerial
staff
of
the
City
generally
do
so.
G
E
B
A
So
Ian
do
you
want
to
circulate
those?
Those
numbers
I
know
that
there
was
some
back
and
forth
on
averages
and
numbers
from
different
municipalities,
and
we
did
want
to
make
sure
that
we
weren't
sharing
out
of
date,
information.
You
know
in
response
to
points
that
have
been
made
already
so
Ian.
If
you
have
the
most
current
salary
comparisons,
if
you
could
share
that
with
us
and
apologies,
if
you
did
already
and
it
slipped,
my
radar.
A
We
do
not
have
this
as
a
voting
item
tonight,
but
I
would
like
to
suggest
that
Council
come
to
some
agreement
on
the
Range,
what
I'm
hearing
tonight
and
that
there
would
be
a
resolution
in
the
August
Council
packet.
So
one
of
the
concerns
that
other
members
of
council
have
expressed
is
here.
It
is
July
mid-july,
we're
talking
about
the
August
council
meeting.
We
want
to
move
as
expeditiously
as
possible
on
this
search.
There
are
other
searches
going
on.
A
You
know,
as
Ian
has
shared
elsewhere
and
we
don't
want
to
be
missing
out
on
the
strongest
possible
candidates.
So
I
was
hearing
some
sticker
shock
agreed.
A
However,
some
range
in
the
175
to
200
000
recognizing
that
does
not
include
Fringe
Robert.
C
Certainly
it's
July
I
want
to
just
turn
us
back
to
Donna's
point
though
like
I
for
my
own
part,
I'm
not
going
to
support
any
range
without
actually
seeing
any
data.
We'd
like
I,
appreciate
this,
but
like
we,
we
have
as
Council
no
no
data
to
reference
to
support
this
whatsoever.
Right
I
would
like
to
be
able
to
have
some
time
to
reflect
on
that
and
get
a
sense
from
you
know.
C
I
know
that
North
Carolina
has
city
managers
that
have
huge
municipalities
that
are,
you
know,
I
know
Texas
has
some
I
would
just
like
to
get
a
sense
of
the
landscape.
Ian
I
appreciate
what
you're
sharing
with
us,
but
it
would
be
nice
from
a
financial
responsibility
standpoint
for
me
to
be
able
to
see
those
data.
A
A
K
G
L
A
A
As
was
indicated
in
the
earlier
discussion
when
we're
talking
about
city
manager
and
as
was
understood
by
the
task
group
task
force
in
2018,
the
there
would
be
an
increase
in
the
city
manager,
salary.
There
would
be
a
decrease
in
the
mayoral
compensation,
and
that
would
be
a
reflection
of
the
significant
difference
in
responsibilities.
As
we've
said,
the
city
manager
will
be
the
CEO
of
this
large
and
complex
organization.
A
You
have
a
memo
from
2018
I,
believe
that
also
indicates
the
the
responsibilities
or
powers
of
the
mayor
current
and
then
under
Council
manager,
government,
which
is
what
we
are
moving
toward.
A
council
manager
government,
and
you
see
the
responsibilities
currently
and
under
the
new
form
of
government
where
that
responsibility
will
rest
the
responsibility
resting
in
large
part
with
the
city
manager
and
that
I
believe
then
would
be
reflected
in
the
compensation.
A
So
once
again
in
if
I
could
ask
you
to
share
just
verbally
some
of
the
benchmarks,
you've
seen
on
mayoral
compensation.
B
The
uniqueness
with
which
you
find
yourself
in
is
that
I
I'm
not
able
to
find
an
example
of
where
there
was
you
know
the
status
change,
so
the
the
movement
from
the
council
manager
excuse
me
from
a
strong
mayor
to
a
council
manager
so
that
the
mayor
had
some
inherent
powers
and
responsibilities
that
were,
you
know,
removed
or
lessened,
and
some
remained,
and
they
were,
you
know,
provided
to
a
different
position
holder,
but
I
can
tell
you
that
in
terms
of
so
I
went
to
nikom
and
and
they
had
some
available
information.
B
This
was
a
little
bit
more
all
over
the
map.
I
will
be
honest
with
you
and
certainly
to
the
to
the
question
of
Donna.
Likewise,
I
will
share
the
information
that
I
was
able
to
obtain
I've.
Also,
let
me
tell
you
that
the
sort
of
availability
of
that
Benchmark
data
on
a
national
basis
is
not
available,
because
icma
is
really
serving
the
city
management
ranks
and,
and
the
mayor
ranks
will
probably
be
more
of
a
national
league
of
cities.
B
Data
point
that
I
was
not
able
to
access
at
this
point
in
time,
but
just
to
Rattle
off
some
Regional
with
specific
to
the
state
and
Council
manager.
Form
of
government
and
I'll
share
this
with
you,
but
Elmira
12
000
Corning
8500
Cortland,
which
is
gravitating
towards
a
council
management
form
of
government,
but
it
still
remains,
or
a
particular
strong
mayor
for
former
government
25
000.
Geneva
7
500
Auburn
11
000,
Newberg,
15,
Oneonta,
12,
000,
Watertown
1775..
B
There's
a
couple
outliers
like,
for
example,
the
City
of
Poughkeepsie,
shows
990
ninety
thousand
dollars
the
city
of
New
Rochelle.
Again,
it's
it's
inflated
with
Westchester
County
per
se
shows
a
hundred
thousand
I'm,
not
sure
what
the
mayor
does
or
does
not
do
there
and
then
there's
like
a
city
of
Cheryl,
which
is
a
small
city
in
New
York,
with
a
with
a
council
major
form
of
government
at
1500
Canandaigua
at
8
500..
B
So
you
can
see
it's
a
little
bit
of
a
mixed
bag.
There
excuse.
A
Me
just
one
one
minute:
sorry
in
Robert
just
came
back
indicating
that
he
is
not.
G
All
right,
as
I
said
at
the
determination
that
the
council
agent
council
member,
needs
to
make
for
themselves.
B
Okay,
shall
I
continue,
please,
okay,
so
again,
basically
you
know
more
of
a
mixed
bag.
I
mean
you
had
some
salaries
that
were
in
the
you
know
under
10
000
range.
You
had
some
salaries
in
the
you
know,
15
to
25,
and
then
you
had
a
few
outliers
that
were
beyond
that
from
the
council
manager.
Form
of
government
cities
in
New,
York
state
that
would
I
I,
would
think
would
be
sort
of
in
a
peer
group
as
a
comparison.
B
A
Thank
you,
and
and
again,
if
you
have
that
chart
and
apologies,
if
you
sent
it
and
it
fell
off
my
plate,
but
if
you
could
share
any
of
that
data
that
you
have
in
what
I
do
have
and
I
believe
shared
with
Council,
albeit
late
this
afternoon,
is
the
salary
history
of
elected
officials
that
gives
the
common
Council
compensation
dating
from
1996
up
to
2022
also
indicates
the
mayoral
compensation,
which
I
will
point
out
for
the
public
right
now.
The
mayor's
salary
is
sixty.
One
thousand
four
hundred
eighty
nine
dollars.
A
I
will
point
out
that
the
mayor
is
currently
the
CEO
of
the
organization
with
all
the
responsibility
for
departments,
department,
heads,
labor
negotiations
overseeing
and
being
involved
in
that
and
the
development
of
budgets,
so
that
compensation
reflects
the
responsibilities
of
the
mayor
in
our
current
structure
as
as
the
CEO,
the
current
common
Council
compensation
is
thirteen
thousand
one
hundred
forty
one
dollars
that
was
not
increased
for
a
number
of
years,
however,
is
at
that
thirteen
thousand
dollars
now
so
in
one
instance,
I
am
thinking
and
I'm
interested
in
hearing
colleagues
responses
to
this,
the
County
Legislature
there's
some
interest
in
the
county
administrators
role,
responsibilities,
compensation
being
somewhat
not
exactly
but
somewhat
in
keeping
with
the
city's
ranges.
A
The
chair
of
the
legislature
is
my
understanding
receives
compensation
that
is
one
and
a
half
the
time
times
the
compensation
for
County
legislators
and
I'm
not
suggesting
that
those
salary
numbers
be
exactly
mirrored
in
in
our
compensation.
However,
do
we
want
to
consider
the
mayor
who
will
not
be
the
CEO
of
the
organization
and
will
have
significantly
different
responsibilities?
A
Do
we
want
to
think
about
the
mayor's
compensation
being
one
and
a
half
times
common
council's
compensation?
So
I'll
put
that
out
there
for
comments
which
would
put
it
at
about
foreign
yeah,
which
is
the
figure
that
was
in
in
my
head
George
and
then
ducks
in.
J
H
J
That
the
county
ledge
makes
a
lot
more
money
than
we
do.
J
I
think
the
Office
of
the
mayor
will
continue
to
be
one
that
requires
quite
a
bit
of
time,
business,
openings,
Etc,
that's
not
something
that
the
chair
of
the
legislature
does
as
much
so
I
would
suggest
that
we
tie
and
we
tie
it
to
Council
but
make
it
I'm
going
to
say
two
and
a
half
times,
but
two
to
two
and
a
half
times
the
salary
of
common
Council,
which
hopefully
is
going
to
be
more
next
year.
M
Jackson
yeah,
basically
what
George
said
I
was
also
going
to
kind
of
ask
us.
You
know
what
we
envisioned
the
mayor
will
do.
The
responsibilities
will
be
because
just
thinking
back,
you
know
think
of
the
Lord
I
think
in
a
savante,
the
responsibility
is
outside
of
City
Hall
were
still
substantial
and
they
often
until
you
have
backups
and
so
like.
You
often
can't
make
everything
and
just
the
position
still
can
feel
very
full-time,
so
I'm.
Sorry,
so
I
meant
to
ask
the
question
and
then
answer
it.
M
So
my
answer
is
it
still
feels
very
full
full-time?
The
responsibilities
are
still
going
to
be
substantial
I.
Don't
you
know
I
could
Bandy
about
a
number
of
different
numbers,
although
George's
proposal
seems
very
reasonable
to
me,
meaning
it's
on
the
upper
end
of
where
I
was
thinking
because
yeah
I
still
like
we
expect
the
mayor
not
just
to
do
ribbon
cuttings
and
stuff,
but
to
advocate
for
the
city
both
regionally
and
nationally,
maybe
internationally.
M
You
know
liaise
with
the
many
many
people
who
currently
can't
get
on
the
mayor's
calendar,
or
even
my
calendar
for
that
matter
and
I'm.
Just
a
council
person,
like
my
expectations,
will
be
very
high.
M
D
Yeah
I
think
I
want
to
just
Echo
duck
makes
a
good
point.
We
we
do
find
ourselves
because
I
think
I
want
a
cautious
caution.
Us
in
thinking
that
the
way
the
mayor's
role
had
been
structured,
it
that
everything
that
was
there
is
exactly
how
it
gets
translated
to
the
city
manager
or
to
the
mayor,
because
I
think
we
do
want
to
have
the
ability
for
a
mayor
to
maybe
do
some
things
that
the
role
either
didn't
allow
or
just
didn't
have
time
for
so
I.
D
Don't
want
us
to
lose
sight
of
the
fact
that
it's
not
necessarily
always
going
to
be
a
a
one-to-one
now.
Having
said
that,
I
I
do
think
it's
important
for
us
to
keep
this
in
check
that
we
we
do
find
the
right
balance.
I
I'm
I
haven't
quite
wrapped
my
head
around
I,
like
the
idea
of
tying
it
to
Council
salaries,
because
I
think
that's
that
happens
in
other
examples.
D
Probably
some
of
the
numbers
that
Ian
noted
might
have
been
that
so
I,
but
I
don't
know
about
the
number
yet
so
I
I
agree
George
whether
it's
2
2.53,
whatever
it
is
it's
we
will
have
to
figure
that
out,
but
I
would
like
to
see
some
way
of
connecting
that
to
the
scope
of
things
in
the
mayor's
role
and
I'll.
D
Just
make
two
other
quick
points,
which
is
one
I
think
we
always
intended
and
I'm
and
I'm
sure
that
in
some
of
the
cases,
what
Ian
noted
they
may
be,
mayors
that
are
not
elected
as
Mayors,
but
they're,
elevated,
council
members
and
I
think
that's
an
important
distinction
for
our
the
intent
of
our
model
was
that
we
wanted
to
retain
a
Citywide
elected
mayor
and
I.
Think
that
is
part
of
the
reason
why
duck
and
I,
and
maybe
others
have
this
expectation
of
what
that
mayor's
role
would
be
because
they
were.
D
D
But
I
did
know
that
there
are
some
cities,
I
think
with
comparable
size
to
ours,
but
they,
their
structure
of
counsel
is
different
in
that
they
have
reps
on
Council
that
represent
specific
sections
of
the
city
like
our
Awards,
but
then
they
have
other
Citywide
elected,
like
at
large
representatives
and
I
noted
in
one
example
that
those
two
reps
got
different
salaries,
that
the
city-wide
elected
officials
got
a
higher
salary
than
the
ward
or
or
section
elected
officials
for
what
it's
worth
I.
Don't
say
that
I'm
not
advocating
for
that.
A
On
on
that
point,
Ian,
do
you
have
any
experience
with
what
Rob
was
just
describing.
B
Yeah
I'm,
familiar
with
I
I,
can't
pinpoint
the
jurisdictions
right
now,
but
definitely
familiar
with
that.
Arrangement,
where
you
have
at
large
and
and
you
have
District
or
Ward,
based,
although
I'm
unfamiliar
with
the
at
large
Council
or
board
members
being
distinguished
from
a
salary
compensation
perspective.
A
Thank
you,
Phoebe
I
saw
your
hand.
H
Looking
at
I
kept
hearing
this
part-time
position
and
61
000
a
year
is
quite
a
bit
for
a
part-time
position
for
one
to
me-
and
this
is
just
me
and
also
that
position
is
gonna
even
drop
lower
right-
that
that
to
be
saying
that
that
person
should
get
I
and
I
don't
do
the
percentage
and
stuff
like
that,
but
I
think
if
they're
not
going
to
raise
what
I
get
then
I'm
not
looking
at
this
whole
I
I,
don't
know
the
for
me
from
what
I'm
understanding
what
I'm
hearing
today
and
I
could
be
wrong.
H
The
mayor
is
going
to
be
doing
sitting
on
the
council
with
us
voting
like
us
and
I
gotta.
Remember.
There
are
a
lot
of
other
responsibilities
that
we
also
have,
as
liaison
as
special
committees
as
so
maybe
so,
what
I'm
saying
is
I?
Don't
I,
don't
I'm
not
looking
at
seeing
so
because
stuff
Maya
get.
Will
the
mayor
continue
to
get
voted
in
the
same
way?
Oh
yeah,
that's
right!
That's
right!
The.
H
And
be
elected
but
so
I
need
to
know
what
they
will
be
doing,
and
so,
if
it's
about
you
were
saying
attending
some
I
mean
ribbon
cuttings
and
attending
this,
and
that
kind
of
stuff,
like
that.
All
of
us
do
that
all
right
and
I'm,
not
explaining
myself
as
well
as
I
I,
think
I
should.
But
what
I'm
saying
is
we
get?
What
I
gotta
look
again,
thirteen
thousand
right
and
if
the
mayor
gets
that
double
that
that's
26,
000.?
Okay,
so
if
I
say
30
000
a
year?
J
So
let
me
say
it
a
different
way:
yeah
say
we
give
ourselves
a
raise
this
year
to
15
grand
a
year
twice,
that
is
thirty
thousand
right
and
two
and
a
half
times
that
is
thirty.
Seven
five.
C
Council
will
vote
on
their
own
salaries
when
they
raise
them.
Do
you
all
recuse
your
did
like
this?
It's
every.
Are
you
Judy
nice
to
meet
you
hi,
I'm
running
for
mayor?
As
you
know,
I
don't
think
this
is
a.
This
is
not
a
private
transactional
matter
that
has
anything
to
do
with.
C
Yeah
the
point
I
wish
to
make
is
I
emailed
colleagues
a
few
weeks
ago.
I
actually
think
that
the
best
way
to
handle
this
issue
looking
forward
is
to
explore
creating
a
salary
commission
that
is
staffed
by
members
of
the
public,
who
can
get
a
sense
for
how
accessible
their
mayor
and
council
members
are
and
recommend
to
the
body.
What
salary
adjustments
should
happen
in
the
future.
C
A
C
Thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
clarify
I'm,
recommending
that
a
salary
commission
for
elected
officials
only
there
are
some
out
there
are
some
other
states,
I
think
I've
emailed
about
a
couple
of
municipalities
that
do
this
elsewhere
around
the
country.
Not,
of
course,
our
civil
service
employees.
E
I
I
think
the
role
of
Mayor
is
one
that
can
that
can
expand
a
lot.
If
one
wants
to
so
I
think
it's
I
think
we
have
to
decide
how
much
time
it
would
take
to
do.
E
What
I
think
are
the
most
important
jobs
of
the
mayor,
and
that
is
to
to
organize
common
Council
to
preside
over
common
Council
to
serve
as
strong
liaison
between
common
Council
and
the
city
manager
to
serve
as
a
liaison
with
other
municipalities
to
Advocate
as
needed
in
Albany,
and
maybe
occasionally
in
Washington
DC
but
I
I.
Think
for
the
most
part,
I
want
there
to
be
a
lot
less
drama
with
the
role
of
the
mayor
than
there
has
been
historically
and
I.
E
I
really
I
want
the
city
manager
and
the
mayor
to
stick
to
the
knitting
and
make
sure
that
the
city
of
Ithaca
runs
smoothly
and
fulfills
our
our
vision
and
our
mission
of
the
what
we
want
it
to
be
so
so,
yes,
a
mayor
could
go
to
infinite,
ribbon
cuttings
and
go
to
Albany
every
week
and
and
meet
with
all
30
000
residents
of
the
city
of
Ithaca,
but
and-
and
that
would
be
an
80
hour
a
week
job.
But
is
that
what
we
want
and
to
me?
E
It's
not
it's
not
what
we
want.
I
think
that
it's
it
would
be
reasonable,
like
the
26
to
30
thousand
dollar
range,
for
somebody
to
do
roughly
double
the
work
of
what
we
expect
ourselves
to
do.
That's
what
I
think
would
be
in
keeping
with
changes
that
we're
trying
to
make.
J
Yeah
just
really
and
then
Jorge
Donna,
that's
amen,
I'll
just
say
to
Rob's
point:
I
understand
wanting
to
get
the
public
involved
in
as
much
as
possible,
but
to
me
with
respect
that
sounds
like
at
best
too
many
cooks
and
at
worst
just
cluster.
A
I
Thank
you
Joe.
You
know,
I,
think
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
I
agree
with
a
lot
of
what's
been
said.
I,
like
I,
really
do
agree
with
and
find
myself
aligned
with
George's
sentiment
that
we
should
tie
the
mayor's
salary
to
counsel
I,
think
we're
hoping
what
we're
hoping
to
accomplish
is
have.
There
may
be
a
more
involved
member
of
the
legislature
and
the
legislative
process
within
the
city,
as
we
relegate
a
lot
of
the
administrative
and
logistic
aspects.
I
Logistical
aspects
of
the
marriage
is
currently
to
the
city
manager,
and
so
it
would
make
sense
that
they
would
be
in
line
with
what
we
you
know
relative
to
being.
Essentially
an
at
large
member
of
council
are
making
currently
and
so
I
think
that
makes
sense.
I
I
I
personally
believe
we
all
deserve
a
raise
and
whatnot
it's
very
difficult
to
do
this
job,
and-
and
we
want
to
make
sure
specifically,
that
this
job
is
accessible
to
folks
who
are
on
the
lower
income
side
of
things
and
who
are
not
typically
found
serving
on
this
Council
and
so
I
believe
all
members
of
council
and
the
mayor
should
receive
you
know
compensation
relative
to
that
and
I
do
appreciate
that
with
the
city
manager
process,
we're
making
the
mayor
a
much
more
involved.
I
Member
of
that
Council,
and
so
it
should
be
tied
to
that.
In
my
opinion.
So
I
agree
with
that.
I'd
be
interested
in
exploring
to
hear
what
the
public
has
to
say,
but
I
don't
think
any
means.
We've
bind
ourselves
to
that
because
I
believe
we
should.
You
know
we
should
have
some
insight
into
that
understanding
that
we
as
Council
want
to
make
this
job
more
accessible
to
folks
in
the
city.
E
E
A
Reasonable
for
a
member
of
council
right
as
an
average
average,
there
are
certainly
times
where,
depending
on
working
groups,
council
members
end
up
with
more
perhaps
than
that
there,
especially
in
recent
weeks.
I
know
there
are
a
number
of
council
members
who
are
serving
on
search
committees,
for
example,
and
working
groups.
So
there
are
times,
but
the
average
of
15
16
hours
a
week.
That
is
the
average
that
I
remember
from
2017
I.
Think
I.
J
A
H
I
I
just
have
to
say
two
things
for
one
I
I
do
way
more
than
that
time
way
more
than
that
time,
15
hours
wait,
I
I
do
a
lot
more
than
that,
as
a
council
person.
If
we
want
to
look
at
just
standing
in
the
street
talking
to
some
people,
maybe
two
three
hours
at
the
time,
but
anyway,
not
even
yet
what
I
want
to
bring
out
is
what
has
happened
for
many
years.
H
Is
the
people
who
sat
on
this
board
could
afford
that
the
people
we
want
to
see
begin
to
be
a
part
of
this
on
this
Council?
That
is
not
going
to
really
be
okay
for
them
right
and-
and
so
that's
my
thinking
and
so
I
think
for
many
years
this
has
been
considered
a
place
where
that
would
would
just
compensate
people
from
that
work.
K
A
I
Ous,
you
know
I
think
I
I
really
do
agree
that
I
appreciate
that
there
are.
You
know
that
this
is
considered
a
part-time
position
and
that
that
you
know
that
that
comes
with
expectations
for
hours
and
work
and
whatnot
yeah,
and
there
are
definitely
times
where,
like
the
work,
Ebbs
and
flows,
you
know
I
definitely
felt
that
in
my
first
year
on
Council
that
I
wasn't
always
doing
you
know
a
whole
lot.
I
I
was
doing
learning
and
trying
to
figure
out
how
things
worked,
but
I
could
totally
understand
reasonably
why
it
would
be
expected
for
us
to
do
like
15.
You
know
hours,
you
know
a
week
as
an
average
so
like
that
the
more
and
more
I
get
involved
and
I
think
I'm.
Sure.
A
lot
of
my
colleagues
would
feel
this
way
as
we
get
deeper
and
deeper
involved.
I
That
comes
out
of
our
time
and
I
think
that,
while
this
is
a
part-time
position,
it's
also
a
position
of
Public
Service
that
we
were
democratically
elected
to
and
with
expectations
associated
with
that.
That
means
we
have
to
some
oftentimes
over
deliver
on
that
and
so
I
believe.
That
means
it
might
be
time
to
reassess
those
expectations
that
we
as
a
city
and
as
a
body
on
Council,
have
held
about
the
viability
of
doing
this
job
at
the
expectated
at
the
expected
hours
and
compensation
that's
associated
with
it.
A
M
Have
a
question
to
lower
someone's
elected
salary?
Do
we
have
to
go
to
referendum.
G
Hi,
that's
a
good
question.
The
answer
in
this
case
is
no.
There
are
two
circumstances
under
which
referendum
is
required
to
reduce
an
elected
officer's
salary.
One
of
those
is
where
you
are
seeking
to
reduce
it
during
their
term
of
office.
G
Correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
but
my
understanding
of
council's
deliberations
tonight
is
entirely
about
January
1
onwards,
for
the
mayor's
salary
and
council
salary
and
and
it's
important
therefore,
with
respect
to
council
salary,
to
note
that
all
seats
on
common
Council
will
enter
a
new
elected
term,
come
January
1,
which
is
not
always
true
at
the
end
of
any
given
year.
G
But
it
is
this
year
and
then
the
other
circumstance
under
which
a
referendum
comes
into
play
is
where
state
law
specifies
an
elected
officers,
salary
and
there
is
contemplation
of
lowering
and
there
is
an
action
seeking
to
lower
it.
But
neither
of
those
situations
apply
here.
G
G
And
I
guess
I
should
add
the
on
tonight's
agenda
as
I.
Think
agenda
item
1D
is
an
update
on
legislative
next
steps,
which
relates
a
little
bit
to
what
we
were
just
talking
about.
So
when
we
get
there,
I
will
want
to
speak
there.
G
A
All
right
so
again,
there's
some
consensus
to
tying
mayoral
compensation
to
council
compensation.
Council
compensation
is
the
next
item
on
this
agenda
is
has
been
stated.
Current
compensation
of
council
members
is
13
100.
Any
changes
would
be
for
the
council
going
forward
in
2024
any
of
these
salaries.
Obviously,
for
these
positions,
city
manager,
mayor
Council,
are
for
implementing
in
2024.
A
One
suggestion
is
that
and
I
think
this
was
the
question
George,
if
I'm
not
mistaken,
that
you
had
asked
about
their.
Is
there
a
process,
a
procedure
for
reviewing
common
Council
compensation
and
you'll
recall
as
others
on
Council
May?
There
was
a
number
of
years.
There
were
a
number
of
years
where
there
was
no
increase
in
Council
compensation.
A
So
I
thought
one
of
your
questions,
perhaps
not
the
whole
of
your
questions,
but
one
was
to
establish
a
procedure
whereby
Council
compensation
would
be
adjusted
on
an
annual
say,
a
two
percent
increase
for
Council
annually
so
that
it
wouldn't
be
a
situation
of
council
raising
this
as
a
question
on
some
basis.
Some
time
frame.
J
I
I,
never
I,
never
said
two
percent
I
no
I
know
that
last
time
we
studied
this
I
think
duck
was
involved,
I
was
involved,
Dan
kogan
was
involved
and
we
we
did
this
average
number,
and
actually
we
did
a
few
different
average
numbers
and
the
number
I
recall
we
came
up
with
was
14
and
change,
and
this
last
time
we
raised
it,
savante
had
not
put
a
raise
in
his
budget
and
we
found
some
money
right
at
the
end.
J
Steve
Thayer
found
some
money
and
I
just
moved
to
use
that
money
to
raise
the
salaries
and
that's
how
we
came
up
with
13
and
change,
and
that
was
the
first
raise
since
the
Civil
War.
You.
J
2016
the
raise
was
five
hundred
dollars,
so
in
keeping
with
simplicity,
my
field
of
expertise,
I
I,
say
we
should
raise
it
to
fifteen
thousand
anyway
next
year
and
that
covers
I
mean
inflation
has
been
significant.
K
C
Thank
you,
mayor,
I,
appreciate
the
Simplicity
angle.
George
I
would
draw
council's
attention
to
work
that
Dan
kogan
did
when
he
was
Chief
of
Staff
and
that
Donna
made
reference
to
a
few
minutes
ago
about.
If
we
were
going
to
tie
it
to
anything,
it
would
make
sense
to
me
to
be
tied
to
whatever
the
adjusted
living
wage
is
in
any
given
year.
Again,
it's
like
the
recommended
proposal
for
Budget
season
again
I
know
Ari.
C
You
can
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong
I
know
we
cannot
pre-obligate
ourselves
to
a
set
rate,
so
we'd
have
to
we'd
have
to
ratify
that
in
the
budget
process
every
year,
but
we
could
have
potentially
as
the
starting
point
whatever
the
Tompkins
County
living
wages
in
any
given
year
to
smooth
some
of
those
inflationary
concerns.
G
Right
counsel
can
certainly
come
up
with
a
rule
of
thumb.
I
think
is
what
you're,
asking
and
and
then
budget
and
then
choose
or
not
choose
to
to
in
fact
budget
for
that
rule
of
thumb
in
each
budget
cycle.
That's
definitely
legal.
Yes,.
H
H
Phoebe
I
I,
I
I
have
to
ask:
can
I
go
back
for
a
moment,
because
I
want
to
ask
George
a
question
of
what?
What
did
you
mean
by
reimagining
Public
Safety
right?
That's
one
one
question,
because
that
kind
of
is
a
little
unsettled
with
me
did.
What
did
you
mean.
H
No
I,
just
I
just
was
kind
of
saying
what
I
we
did
a
lot
of
work
on
that,
but
we've
also
been
doing
a
lot
of
work
on
the
jungle.
A
lot
of
you
know,
I
think
what
happened
with
reimagining
Public
Safety
is
not.
We
did
a
lot
of
work
because
we
did
a
lot
of
delays
in
it.
I
don't
know
I'm
just
feeling.
Yeah
I
I
just
wanted
to
bring
that
up.
A
Yeah
yeah,
thank
you
if
I
could
yeah
in
response
to
George's
comment,
what
I
offered
is
that
members
of
council
have
served
and
will
be
serving
on
a
number
of
task
forces.
Working
groups-
we've
just
heard
from
two
members
of
the
city
manager
task
force
from
2019
2018
2019.
A
council
members
are
also
asked
to
serve
on
search
committees
for
department,
heads
so
I
think
when
Jorge
said
the
ebb
and
flow
of
council
members
can
at
times
make
it
challenging
to
come
up
with
an
average
of
hours
worked.
However,
the
average
that
was
gathered
in
2018
was
15
hours.
We
were
all
asked
to
keep
track
of
now.
At
that
time
there
weren't
necessarily
the
same
number
of
searches
and
task
force
working
groups
so
that
that
can
vary.
I
recognize
that
considerably
I.
H
But
I'm
thinking,
if
we
think
2018
what
y'all
thought
about
for
the
was
city
manager
has
risen.
H
Why
not
thinking
for
because
some
people
may
work
15
hours
I'd
like
the
ebb
and
flow
thing,
but
I
I
just
just
know
that
anyone
that
that
it
can
get
some
people
can
work
a
lot
more
I
read
slower
than
mostly
y'all.
So
it
might
take
me
a
longer
time,
just
reading
stuff
that
I
get
every
day
and
that's
not
talking
about
what
I
get
from
here.
I'm
talking
about
what
I
get
from
community
members
and
I'm
teasing
about
reading
slow,
but
I
get
a
lot
of
messages
from
community
members.
Also
that
takes
time.
H
F
Right
now
the
mayor
gets
61.489.
Chief
of
Staff
gets
130.,
Council
gets
13
141
annually,
all
together,
that's
322,
let's
say
to
323
000.
100
000.
F
So
we're
not
talking
that
big
of
a
difference
if
you
drop
the
mayor's
salary
to
between
30
37.5
I'm,
just
I'm
just
putting
it
out
there.
So
we
can
have
it
in
context.
A
C
That's
very
helpful
Cynthia.
Thank
you,
I
was
I
also
just
wanted
to
throw
in
you
know.
Council
members
in
aggregate
will
also
have
at
least
in
my
reading,
somewhat
more
responsibilities
with
respect
to
Collective
oversight
of
the
city
manager.
Right.
The
reason
we're
here
today
and
so
and
then
the
the
last
thing
I
would
just
note
is
the
the
memo
that
I
referenced
earlier
from
Dan
did
Benchmark
counsel
at
20
hours
a
week,
not
15.
A
Okay,
I
will
just
once
again
refer
colleagues
to
the
chart
and
the
responsibilities
of
the
city
manager,
responsibilities
of
the
mayor,
going
forward
understanding
what
comments
from
others
that
perhaps
we
want
a
mayor
who
is
more
active
legislatively
in
certain
realms.
A
However,
I
I
take
the
point
that
we
want
to
hire
a
city
manager
who
has
the
expertise
to
be
the
CEO
and
manager
of
this
organization.
Council
will
work
with
the
city
manager
and
the
city
manager
will
report
to
to
council,
but
a
great
deal
of
the
work
currently
on
the
mayor's
plate
will
be
in
the
future.
The
responsibility
as
designed
the
responsibility
of
the
city
manager
and
I
would
hope
that
would
be
reflected
in
the
compensation
for
both
those
offices.
D
A
quick
point,
I
I,
think
it's
been
said,
but
I'll
just
put
my
two
cents
in
I
think
it
it's
going
to
be
very
important
for
us
moving
forward
for
those
of
us
who've
been
in
the
budget
meetings
having
to
make
decisions
about
salary
at
a
time
when
we're
struggling
over
a
lot
of
other
decisions
about
how
to
spend
money,
it's
very
difficult
to
vote,
increases
to
ourselves
or
the
mayor,
so
I
think
it's
going
to
be
really
important
for
us
to
have
that
X
Factor,
that's
sort
of
built
in
so
we've
talked
about
tying
it
to
the
living
wage.
D
D
That
average
is
going
to
have
to
come
across
each
of
us
individually
as
well
as
us
collectively,
because
it
has
to
be
one
number
so
I
think
we
did
use
15
in
the
past.
Dan's
calculations
at
20
might
have
been
a
different
different
set
of
work,
but
I
thought
we
agreed
on
15
when
we
made
that
last
Choice
I'm
not
saying
that's
the
number
we
have
to
go
with
into
the
future.
All
I'm
saying
is:
it
needs
to
be
one
number
that
we
agree
on
or
at
least
vote
in
a
majority
on.
J
George
yeah
I
I
agree
with
you
rob
that
we
have
to
pick
one
number
and
and
it's
a
tough
decision
to
make
when
you're
doing
the
budget
as
a
whole.
My
recollection
and
I
may
be
able
to
find
is
that
we
came
up
with
numbers
if
the
average
was
15.
If
the
average
was
17,
if
the
average
was
20.,
I
don't,
and
that
was
part
of
the
discussion.
I,
don't
think
we
we
decided
on
a
number
really
and-
and
the
fact
is
we
didn't.
J
We
didn't
go
with
that
recommendation
at
the
time
we
we
voted
not
to
raise
our
salaries
that
year
so
but
I
I
agree
with
what
you're
saying.
K
C
Thanks
I
would
also
just
remind
colleagues
I,
think
almost
half
of
us
at
the
table
opted
into
the
pension
system
where
you
have
to
record
a
rolling
average
is
three
hours
we
could
just
you
know,
charge
Council
to
track
their
hours
for
a
period
of
time
and
to
Rob's
Point
find
some
sort
of
average.
Of
that.
A
So
that's
a
good
suggestion
that
you
know
for
the
next
few
months
for
Council
to
track,
and
if
you
can
look
back
on
most
recent
months,
that
would
be
helpful
and
then
we
can
have
discussion
again.
A
We
will
not
be
voting
on
mayor
or
Council
compensation
tonight
and
very
possibly
not
in
August
the
pressing
salary
figure
to
come
to
an
agreement
on
in
by
August
is
city
manager
and
I
certainly
understand,
and
this
is
why
we're
having
this
conversation
that
they're
all
related,
we
did
say
that
the
city
manager
mayor
would
be.
A
Neutral
Revenue,
neutral
and
I,
that
was
a
well
thought
out
plan.
Looking
at
roles
and
responsibilities,
Phoebe.
H
H
To
be
perfectly
honest,
I
chose
to
do
this
so
I'm
all
right
with
it,
I'm
all
right
with
whatever
they
give
me
right,
because
it's
extra
I
have
a
full-time
job
but
I'm
thinking
and
looking
ahead
for
other
women
other
people
of
color
that
this
might
be
something
that
they
can
do
for
sort
of
like
their
main
job.
That's
what
I'm
thinking
about
I,
don't
know
about
everybody
else,
but
I'm
hoping
we
see
a
change
of
people
who
are
willing
to
do
this
type
of
work
because
it's
beneficial.
H
A
That
that
makes
a
lot
of
sense,
Phoebe
and
it
was
challenging
in
2018
for
us
all
to
keep
track
of
every
hour
we
spend
you
know
you
on
the
phone
with
people,
you're
emailing
people
late
at
night,
you're
bumping
into
people
when
you're
out
yeah
it's
hard
and
that's
why
we
were
talking
about
an
average
so
having
a
sense
of
the
average
amount
of
time
spent.
A
I
think
is
a
very
good
thing
to
do,
and
that
also
helps
us
as
we're
talking
about
with
others
who
may
want
to
be
involved
in
common
Council.
Your
other
point
about
wanting
compensation
that
attracts
abroad
and
diverse
group
of
residents
to
see
themselves
see
themselves
as
possibly
being
able
to
run
for
and
serve
the
community
by
being
on
Council.
That
was
part
of
our
discussion
as
I
recall
in
2018,
which
is
what
led
to
the
increase.
At
that
time.
There
was
a
clear
recognition
and
desire
to
to
do
that.
Awesome,
Jackson.
M
I,
just
I'll
throw
in
a
little
another
aspect
of
accessibility
to
people.
Just
my
personal
experience
is
that,
unlike
Jorge,
I've
tried
to
actually
guard
my
time
better
because
it
can
be
all-consuming
and
it's
like
I
gotta
pay
attention
to
my
day
job
because
I
lose
that
I
can't
afford
my
house,
so
I
gotta
pay
attention
to
my
family
because
you
know
I
have
responsibilities.
M
I
need
a
commitment
to
my
wife
and
and
the
people
in
my
life,
so
I'm
actually
a
little
more
guarded
over
the
past
eight
years
with
my
time
so
I
I
do
I
like
your
number
Donna,
because
that's
roughly
what
I
try
to
keep
it
to
because
you
know
tcat
could
have
been
a
whole
15
hours
a
week.
The
Committees
are
on
like
so
I,
don't
want
to
make
it
sound
like
to
the
public
either
that
this
is
this
horrible
owner's
thing.
M
It's
the
greatest
honor
of
my
life
to
serve
on
Council
and
I'm,
happy
to
put
the
time
in,
but
I
do
have
you
know
my
own
mental
health
needs
and
and
family
needs
and
day
Japanese.
So
that's
another
aspect
of
it
too,
which
only
makes
all
the
all
the
harder
to
come
to
a
number
but
I'm
going
to
throw
that
in
there.
L
I
just
had
a
clarifying
question
about
just
wanted
to
make
sure
I
understood
you
when
you
said
Revenue,
neutral
I,
think
that's
the
phrase
you
you
were
talking
about:
adjusting
the
city
manager
and
the
mayor
to
be
equivalent
to
what
now
is
the
chief
of
staff
and
the
mayor
am
I
right
about
that.
A
That
there
would
not
be
any
significant
cost
increase,
in
fact
that
it
would
be
neutral,
not
not
Revenue
neutral,
but
yeah
I
misspoke.
So
yes,
that
we
would
not
be
looking
at
additional
cost
keeping
in
mind,
as
has
been
pointed
out,
there
are
costs
significant
costs
to
Fringe
packages.
A
But
yes,
the
discussions
in
2018
have
been
that
the
city
manager
would
be
us
a
slight
increase,
not
defined,
but
an
increase
from
the
current
chief
of
staff.
The
chief
of
staff
position
is
no
longer
at
play
and
that
the
mayor
would
have
a
reduced
compensation
because
the
mayor
will
not
be
the
CEO
of
the
city.
A
You're
right
George,
we
have
not
talked
about
that
and
there
are
a
number
of
new
positions
in
the
city
government
organization.
We
have
currently
a
special
events:
staff
member,
that's
a
new
position.
You
are
correct
that
there
will
be
a
deputy
City
Manager
for
Public
Safety.
We've
not
talked
about
that.
We've
not
moved
forward
with
that.
A
N
B
O
Thank
you
Shelly,
sorry,
but
to
that
last
point
about
the
and
Steve
would
have
to
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
but
I
thought
there
was
a
budget
created
that
in
in
terms
of
RPS
that
had
an
additional
position
at
the
time
we
were
talking
about
a
commissioner.
O
E
A
Your
question
Charlie,
that
is
in
the
budget,
the
Deputy
city
manager,
is
budgeted
it's
in
the
in
there,
even
though
we
are
not
right
now,
actively
searching
that
and
Steve
is
shaking
his
head
that,
yes,
that
is
indeed
factored
into
our
budget.
O
H
I
H
That's
clear
because
I'm
just
thinking
all
these
positions
coming
up
in
2024
like
it's
gonna,
be
a
lot
of
work
with
with
you
know,
because
some
parts
of
the
account
we
have
to
be
on
board.
That's
what
I'm
saying
I
talked
about
tomorrow
is
there's
going
to
be
a
lot
of
work
that
we
have
to
do
in
the
future.
Yeah.
A
A
Okay
and
I
think,
as
I
said
a
moment
ago,
the
the
top
priority
is
to
have
that
range,
which
I
believe
we
have
on
city
manager
range
of
175
to
200
000.
That
does
not
include
Fringe,
we
can
be.
We
can
get
further
information.
Ian
will
share
some
information
with
us.
We
do
not
need
to
make
decisions
on
mayor's
salary
and
Council
compensation
at
this.
At
this
time,
Donna.
E
Did
we
agree
to
the
175
to
200
range
I
thought
we
were
thinking
about
it,
some
more
I'm
not
ready
to
publicize.
That
okay
is
that
every.
A
Okay,
so
Ian
will
be
able
to
share
more
data
and
Council
can
think
about
it,
and
we
will
return
to
this
in
August.
A
G
No
problem,
thank
you
Laura
right.
So
in
terms
of
legislative
next
steps,
it's
worth
keeping
in
mind
a
few
points
around
the
salary
conversation
we've
just
been
having.
The
first
is
that
city
manager,
salary
can
be
established
by
resolution,
so
Council
can
deliberate
on
that.
As
you
see
fit
and
I
believe,
the
mayor
is
suggesting
that
a
further
conversation
around
it
would
be
on
the
August
second
Council
agenda,
so
I.
Presumably
that
is
the
sort
of
legislative
path
that
piece
will
take.
G
In
contrast,
mayor
and
Council
salaries
are
established
in
chapter
107
of
the
city
code.
Under
the
doctrine
of
legislative
equivalency,
we're
required
to
set
those
by
local
law,
not
by
resolution
or
ordinance,
and
a
local
law
has
an
aging
requirement.
That
means
that
you
can
only
roughly
speaking
what
it
means
is
that
we
we
have
to
know
what
numbers
you
want
for
mayor
and
Council
salaries
about
10
days
before
well,
more
than
10
days
before
call
it
two
weeks
before
a
council
will
take
its
final
vote
on
those
numbers.
G
That
said,
if
Council
would
like
to
discuss
those
numbers
and
reach
a
conclusion
on
them
at
the
August
2nd
council
meeting,
that
could
be
a
productive
path
forward
if
you'd
like
and
then
we
would
prepare
a
local
law
based
on
what
you
determined
at
the
August
2nd
meeting
and
bring
it
back
to
a
subsequent
meeting
after
laying
it
on
the
table
and
letting
it
age
properly
for
a
final
binding
vote.
So
in
somewhat
plain
English
at
August,
the
August,
2nd
council
meeting
mayor
and
Council
salaries
could
be.
G
Procedurally,
you
could
have
a
procedural
vote
on
mayor
and
Council
salaries.
That
tells
us
what
you
want
to
do
with
them,
but
it
wouldn't
be
the
final
binding
legal
vote.
G
That's
those
pieces,
the
the
liberations
right
I
explained
that
any
changes
to
salary
during
the
term
would
have
referendum
implications,
and
it
seems
clear
that
I'm
sorry,
mayor
and
Council
salaries.
That
is-
and
it
seems
clear,
that
everything
you're
considering
regarding
mayor
and
Council
salaries
would
all
be
effective,
January
1
of
next
year,
so
not
during
the
elected
term
of
that
office.
In
order
to
hit
those
deadlines,
there
is
a
legal
process
for
getting
a
local
law
like
that
file.
G
Follow
filed
that
we
need
to
leave
time
for
after
it's
passed,
so
were
you
to
pass
the
local,
take
the
final
legally
binding
vote
at,
say:
September
Council,
even
October
Council.
That
will
be
fine.
G
You
definitely
don't
want
to
do
it
at
like
December
Council
that'll
be
too
late
to
have
it
be
effective,
so
I
just
wanted
to
put
on
that
out
there
as
well
and
in
just
a
moment
I'll
get
to
your
question
Cynthia
and
lastly,
to
the
extent
that
Council,
as
we
discussed
earlier,
wants
to
come
up
with
a
rule
of
thumb,
so
to
speak
for
future
increases
that
would
then
be
effectuated
or
not
as
Council
sees
fit
in
the
budget
process.
That
is
perfectly
fine
from
a
legal
perspective
were
Council
to
explore.
G
G
F
N
N
G
For
reductions,
what
I
said
is
true
for
increases.
G
F
K
G
G
G
Permission
for
increases
in
the
case
of
a
city
increases
the
salary
of
an
elective
officer
during
his
term
of
office,
except
for
any
such.
F
G
G
A
G
Know
I
apologize.
The
agenda
I
apologize
can
I
actually
clarify.
My
last
comment
sure
the
answer
which
I
I'm
rather
confident,
in
fact
I'm
quite
confident
we
abided
in
2022
as
well-
is
that
increases
during
a
term
of
office
like
the
2022
increase
as
it
applied
to
five
out
of
the
ten
council
members
at
the
time.
Presumably
because
half
of
council
would
not
have
been
ending
their
term
do
have
referendum
implications,
it's
not
just
reductions.
What
I
said
initially
is
true,
but
the
referendum
implications.
G
G
It
had
to
go
to
referendum,
Municipal
home
rule
law,
section
24
addresses
what
are
called
permissive
referenda
and
a
permissive
referendum
requirement
is
one
where
the
local
law
has
to
give
the
public
the
opportunity
to
collect
enough
signatures
to
call
a
referendum
and
I
strongly
suspect
that
that
is
what
we
did
in
for
the
2022
increase,
because
it
would
have
been
midterm
and
the
referendum
wasn't
called
that
there
was
in
fact,
I
now
recall.
G
There
was
a
45-day
waiting
period
during
which
you
have
to
wait
for
any
signatures
that
may
be
filed,
editions
that
may
be
filed
and
the
city
did
weighed
out
that
or
that
waiting
period
so
that
if
the
public
had
called
a
referendum,
then
it
would
have
been
subject
to
it.
That's
the
answer.
F
A
Thank
you
for
the
question
and
the
the
clarification
we
all
set
to
move
on
now
to
agenda
item
2A,
which
is
the
local
law
that
is
in
the
packet.
This
is
a
local
law
entitled
amendment
of
City,
Charter
and
code
to
specify
the
duties,
Authority
and
appointment
and
removal
procedures
of
the
city
manager
and,
once
again,
I'll
turn
it
over
to
Ari.
For
any
comments,
however,
the
full
document
is
in
the
packet,
and
this
was
sent
out
once
again,
I
apologize.
A
G
Sure,
thank
you
Laura,
so
right,
the
local
by
and
large
speaks
for
itself.
But
as
some
background,
it's
worth
recalling
a
few
facts.
One
is
that
there
was
obviously
a
very
large
package
of
legislation,
but
a
lot
of
detail
in
it
that
common
Council
passed
in
the
form
of
both
the
local
law
and
an
ordinance
back
in
2021
that
local
law
from
2021
was
then
approved
at
referendum
in
fall
2022
last
year
and
will
take
effect,
January
1st
of
2024.
G
that
addresses
with
respect
to
the
city,
manager's
job
responsibilities
and
the
way
that
they
will
be
hired
and
and
supervised,
and
so
on
that
2021
local
law
was
kind
of
a
30
000
foot
view
it's
the
really
big
picture
of
what
will
the
city
manager
do?
There
was
also
a
very
granular
local
law
with
respect
to
changes
to
the
mayor's
Authority,
because
changes
to
the
mayor's
Authority
had
to
be
taken
step
by
step
through
the
hundreds
of
references
to
the
mayor
in
the
city
Charter
in
the
city
code.
G
But
with
respect
to
the
city
manager,
it
was
a
bigger
picture
view
of
what
we
were
establishing
for
the
city
manager.
That
brings
us
forward
to
tonight,
where
you
have
in
front
of
you
a
an
additional
local
law
not
to
be
confused
with
the
2021
local
law.
That
was
then
approved
at
referendum,
and
this
local
law
is
now
taking
a
more
detailed
View
and
giving
Council
an
opportunity
to
take
a
more
detailed
to
give
more
detailed
instruction
on
what
the
city
managers
job
will
look
like
and
what
their
responsibilities
will
be.
G
Obviously,
that
in
turn
should
be
taken
in
context
with
a
few
other
documents.
One
is
the
job
description
which
HR
has
put
forward.
Another
is
the
template
employment
agreement
that
is
included.
H
G
The
next
agenda
item
in
your
agenda
tonight
and
that
template
agreement
I
think
probably
offers
the
most
granular
view
in
many
respects
of
the
city
managers.
Some
proposed
sort
of
terms
terms
of
employment.
So
that's
that's
sort
of
the
threshold
description
that
I
wanted
to
offer
here.
G
The
other
much
more
minor
Point
worth
making
is
that
there
is
one
minor
change
that
I
would
recommend,
which
is
that
in
section
C12
A1,
which
is
on
the
second
page
of
the
local
law,
there's
a
reference
to
establishing
residency
in
the
county
within
four
months
of
appointments,
and
the
I
would
recommend
that
we
make.
We
we've
identified
that
that
is
not
consistent
with
the
template
employment
agreement.
That's
also
on
your
agenda
packet
tonight
and
then
so.
G
If
you
use
that
language
it
will
per,
it
will
be
in
sync
with
the
employment
with
the
template
employment
agreement
in
your
packet,
because
the
template
employment
agreement
refers
to
the
county
manager
to
the
city
manager
being
required
to
establish
County
residency
within
six
months
of
appointment
and
providing
common
council
with
the
ability
to
extend
if
it
so
chooses
in
its
discretion
that
six-month
window
up
to
as
much
as
12
months,
which
is
why
the
12-month
number
could
make
sense
in
the
charter.
Profession.
A
I
Sorry,
thank
you
so
much
Ari
and
Company
who
worked
on
this
on
this
documentation.
I,
really
appreciate
all
the
hard
work
that
went
into
it.
I
will
note,
though,
that
on
a
personal
level,
I
don't
entirely
feel
comfortable
prepared
to
vote
on
this
today.
I
I
You
know
decision
right
now,
I'm
I
would
there
are
some
things
here
that
I
would
love
to
engage
in
conversation
and
discussion
on
right
now,
but
I
personally,
don't
feel
comfortable
with
the
amount
of
time
I've
had
to
sit
with
this
to
to
vote
on
this
tonight.
I
There
are
a
couple
of
things
that
I
want
to
I.
I
won't
say
everything
now
because
I
want
opportunity
for
discussion
to
flow,
but
there
are
some
things
that
I
I
have
concerns
about
within
here,
but
just
personally
speaking,
I
have
not
had
chance
to
go
through
this
entire
Amendment
and
and
vote
on
feel
comfortable
to
placing
a
vote
that
I
feel
is
informed.
I
That's
on
my
that's
I'm,
just
speaking
honestly
here
and
I,
don't
I
don't
mean
to
shut
down
things
or
delay
us,
but
I
personally,
don't
feel
like
I've
had
enough
time
to
work
with
this
and
I'm
not
trying
to
make
this
as
a
judgment
on
anybody
who
has
worked
on
this
being
like
you
should
have
gotten
this
to
us
earlier
or
whatnot,
like
I,
said
I'm
ready
to
have
this
conversation
and
I
appreciate
all
the
work
that
went
into
it,
but
I
don't
feel
comfortable
making
it
a
concrete
decision
on
this
right
now.
I
I
Mean,
for
instance,
there
I
would
like
some
more
clarity
on,
for
instance,
sections
2B
and
2G
for
2B
mentioned
that
the
city
manager
May,
participate
in
a
discussion,
make
recommendations
but
shall
not
have
a
right
to
vote.
I
That
is
very
open
to
I'm
I'm
curious
to
see
how
that
would,
you
know
actually
take
shape
when
we're
in
Council.
The
city
manager
is
allowed
to
sit
essentially
as
member
of
council,
just
not
with
the
ability
to
you
know,
to
vote,
but
to
sort
of
participate
in
discussion
and
debate.
I
I,
don't
know
what
the
restrictions
or
limitations
on
or
how
that
would
impact.
How
conversation
is
going,
for
instance,
and
I
can
go
through
a
couple
of
others,
but
I
don't
want
to
hog
up
all
the
time
and
so
I'll
just
wait
to
hear
other
folks's
feedback,
but
those
are
just
some
another
point
that
I
have
concerns
around
is
the
last
section
section
e
for
non-interference
I
have
a
lot
of
concerns
around
that
and
my
council's
ability
to
communicate
with
staff
independent
of
the
city
manager
and
the
implications
Associated
there.
I
G
And
thank
you
if
I
can
I,
just
with
respect
to
the
procedural
point
about
taking
a
vote.
I
just
want
to
remind
all
of
us
that
this
is
a
committee
of
the
whole,
so
any
votes
that
are
taken
tonight
are
not
the
final
winding
vote
of
the
common
Council
on
anything
doesn't
mean
that
you
should
feel
any
more
comfortable.
That's
up
to
you,
but
but
I
do
want
to
be
clear
that
nobody
is
proposing.
G
Nor
would
it
even
be
legally
possible
that
any
vote
taken
tonight
would
be
the
final
vote
on
any
of
these
documents.
Thank
you.
This
is
a
committee
level
meeting.
It
happens
to
be
a
committee
of
the
whole,
which
means
all
of
common
council
is
here,
but
this
is
the
equivalent
in
some
sense
of
like
the
city
Administration
committee,
deliberating
on
something
and
then
sending
it
on
to
the
full
common
counselor
if
it
so
excuses.
A
Yeah
that's
helpful.
Thank
you.
I
will
as
we're
having
discussion
I'll
defer
to
others
who
have
questions
or
comments.
I
will
point
out.
A
Just
in
response
to
one
of
the
items
you
mentioned
to
be
well,
two
is
the
same
manager
shall
have
the
following
duties
and
Authority
B
is
to
attend
all
meetings
of
the
common
Council
as
the
city
manager,
May,
participate
in
any
discussion
and
make
recommendations,
but
shall
not
have
the
right
to
vote.
A
I
will
point
out
that
staff
certainly
department
heads
present
and
participate
and
and
inform
in
fact,
members
of
common
Council,
and
we
did
have
an
example
of
that
just
this
month
when
we
had
discussion
around
zoning,
so
we'd
look
to
the
staff
who
have
expertise
in
their
area
of
responsibility
and
that
helps
to
inform
counsel
in
the
votes
the
council
takes
staff
do
not
have
those
votes.
I
And
I
completely
agree
for
clarification.
I
completely
agree
with
that
and
I
would
not
want
to
obstruct
or
hinder
that
in
any
way.
But
what
I
will
say
is
typically
in
those
scenarios.
This
is
agenda
or
item
specific
and
usually
at
the
behest
of
an
elected
official,
whether
it
be
the
mayor
or
an
older
person
of
this
Council
and
I
believe
that
that's
really
important
in
terms
of
agenda
setting
for
the
legislative
body
and
I
would
not
want
to
see
that
disrupted
in
any
way.
I
But
again,
I
completely
agree
with
you
that
we
should
not
prevent
and
that's
why
I
have
issue
with
non-interference.
But
that's
why
we
should.
We
should
not
prevent
having
staff
come
to
these
meetings
to
have
a
dialogue
with
us
and
provide
necessary
and
important
and
essential
context
for
legislation
or
action
we
would
be
taking
on
I
believe
that
should
be
attached
to
an
elected
official,
whether
it
be
the
mayor
or
a
member
of
council
for
the
city
manager
to
participate.
But
that's
just
me
personally
and
that's
just
where
my
concern
is
coming
out.
A
Thank
you,
Robert
did
I,
see
your
hand.
D
So
I'm
going
to
move
us
from
that
a
little
bit
because
I
do
have
a
question
about
in
the
section
a
number
one.
So
the
first
point
in
the
last
sentence.
Second,
half
of
that
I
was
just
curious
where
whether
or
not
this
aligns
with
either
you
know
best
practice
other
the
way
these
other
municipalities
write
their
code
or
write
these
or
whether
this
is
just
kind
of
being
boilerplated
from
somewhere
else.
D
So
I'm
just
curious
about
the
it
says:
no
member
of
common
counselor
mayor
Shelby,
appointed
city
manager
during
the
term
for
which
that
person
was
elected
or
within
two
years
after
expiration
of
that
person's
term.
Is
that
just
a
standard
practice
I'm?
Maybe
looking
at
Ian,
he
might
be
able
to
answer
that
as
well.
But
Ari
could
answer
it.
I
guess
I.
G
Can
speak
to
it
and
probably
useful
to
hear
from
both
of
us
I
mean
I
can
tell
you
that
in
our
work
in
my
office,
I'm
preparing
the
template,
employment
agreement,
that's
in
this
agenda
packet
and
we
looked
to
many
other
cities,
employment
agreements
for
a
city
manager-
and
this
was
a
provision
that
we
found
in
some
of
those
that
obviously
the
particular
time-
and
we
found
some
that
had
this
particular
time
period
in
them
as
well.
G
But
obviously
the
time
period
is
a
is
a
you
know,
a
choice
that
would
need
to
be
made
if
that
provision
is
going
to
be
there,
but
but
that
was
a
practice
that
was
in
a
number
of
them.
That's
helpful,
yeah
thanks.
A
And
just
as
a
reminder,
the
city
manager,
the
position
we're
discussing
that
individual
would
only
be
taking
office
in
January
of
2024..
C
Yeah,
thank
you.
I
guess,
I'm
going
to
take
us
to
a
different
section,
because
the
the
I
know
I
emailed
about
one
provision
but
I
think
the
biggest
thing
I
have
a
issue
with
is
in
section
c,
under
removal.
I
strongly
oppose
the
requirement
of
a
super
majority
of
counsel
to
dismiss
the
city
manager.
It
does
not
make
sense
to
me
that
we
would
have
someone
who
does
not
have
the
support
of
the
majority
of
the
members
of
council
and
could
not
be
removed
from
office.
C
It
is,
it
is
from
yeah,
it
is
from
seven
to
six
I
believe
yes,
so
eleven
a
majority
of
eleven
seven
or
no
I'm.
Sorry,
yes,
six,
it's
still
right,
but
it
requires
seven
right
now,
as
proposed.
G
And
likewise
note
and
I'm
trying
to
pull
it
up
here
that
again
we
looked
at
other
cities
as
presidents
on
this,
and
they
range
from
there
was
a
pretty
broad
range,
as
my
recollection
I
think
there
are
it
was.
It
was
common
for
a
super
majority
to
be
required,
common
for
a
super
majority
to
be
required
and
again
I'd
be
interested
to
hear
Ian's.
Take
on
this
as
well.
I'm
gonna
work
on
on
pulling
that
part
up,
and
some
was
some
required.
G
A
majority
plus
one
some
required
I
want
to
tell
you.
Two-Thirds
I
think
there
was
one
out
there
that
may
have
required
unanimous
vote,
no,
which
strikes
me
as
very
odd,
so
yeah
that
that's
where
this
came
from.
A
Ian,
do
you
have
any
experience
to
share
with
us
on
this
point,
yeah.
B
I
would
say
sort
of
to
piggyback
on
what
Ari
said.
It
is
a
I.
Wouldn't
say
there
is
a
One
Shining
common
one
I
think
it
is
a
little
bit
of
a
mixed
bag
with
that
particular
provision.
B
So
it's
certainly
up
to
council
I've,
seen
majority
I
already
say,
he's
seen,
unanimous
and
and
super
majority.
So
it
really
is
one
of
one
of
those
three
things
quite
honestly
and
there's
not
really
one
I.
In
my
experience
that
pops
up
as
a
most
of
them
have
this.
G
Oh
got
it
yeah,
that's
one
of
those
things
but
yeah.
Thank
you
and
I'll
just
add
to
bolster
what
I
was
saying
a
moment
ago.
Some
examples,
the
city
of
Newburgh
as
I
understand
it
is
a
majority
Plus
One
requirement.
G
D
N
J
G
And
perhaps
it's
also
just
worth
my
providing
my
understanding
of
some
of
the
rationale
that
some
of
those
other
cities
in
our
reviews
had
for
the
super
majority
requirement,
and
my
understanding
is
that
there
they
were
looking
to
ensure
adequate
stability
of
the
administration
of
the
city.
If
you
have
a
simple
majority,
a
point
fair
enough
and
then
one
what
if
it
were
only
a
simple
majority,
a
bear,
a
bare
minimum
of
a
majority
that
appoints
a
city
manager
and
then
one
of
those
votes
changes.
You
could
have
a
pretty
quick
turnaround.
G
A
A
Other
views
is
this
something
that's
significant
issue
for
others
toxin.
Yes,.
M
Ari
is
kind
of
Devil's,
Advocate
was
what
I
was
thinking
that
not
that
we're
I
have
historically
been
very
capricious
body,
but
I
see
the
arguments.
I
could
I
could
go
around
defending
each
of
the
various
proposals,
but
I
think
I
lean
towards
majority
plus
one.
E
Donna,
you
know
the
role
of
the
city
manager,
the
professional
city
manager,
to
provide
stability
and
security
and
predictability
in
the
administration
and
the
operation
of
the
city.
It's
not.
It
should
not
be
subject
to
the
political
changes
in
in
common
Council,
so
a
city
manager
should
only
be
terminated
if,
if
he
or
she
is,
is
rationally
believed
to
be
grossly
incompetent
in
the
role.
E
E
If
if
they
saw
how
easy
it
might
be
to
be
terminated,
that's
what
worries
me.
B
I
mean
certainly,
you
have
Provisions
in
here
that
Ari
has
not
yet
spoken
to
that
deal
with
the
termination
up
to
that
point,
so
I
mean
it's.
You
know
as
far
as
the
cause
and
things
of
that
nature,
so
I
mean
it
would
have
to
be
process
oriented
right.
B
But
if
somebody
is
looking
at
that
and
they
see
a
simple
majority
versus
a
majority
plus
one
or
a
super
majority,
obviously
they
would
feel
that
they
would
be
a
touch
more
I
guess
protected
from
The
Winds
of
politics
that
would
potentially
swing
One
Way
versus
one
vote.
So
to
answer
down
this
question,
I
would
say
yes.
I
H
L
I
Hoping
to
acquire
more
stability
with
a
city
manager,
however,
I
do
believe
that
the
other
idea
that
we
were
hoping
to
accomplish
with
a
city
manager
was
to
create
greater
oversight
and
agency
for
the
common
Council
over
the
administration
of
of
the
city
and
to
be
able
to
focus
on
more
legislative
priorities
as
a
common
Council
and
to
do
more
constituent,
Outreach
and
I
find
it
very
hard
to
believe
that
common
Council
would
be
able
to
accomplish
these
things.
I
If
a
majority
of
common
council
did
not
feel
that
they
could
adequately
work
with
the
current
city
manager.
I
I
would
imagine
that
we
would
be
bogged
down
in
a
lot
of
debates
and
and
and
frustrations
if
we
weren't
on
the
same
page,
and
so
by
that
simple
logic.
I
believe
that
we
should
that
we
should
stick
to
a
simple
majority
in
the
in
the
issue
of
removal
of
the
city
manager.
A
C
Yeah
just
to
address
Donna's
Point,
specifically
I,
mean
I
think
per
the
rest
of
what
is
drafted
here
before
us.
We,
we
still
must
provide
as
a
body
the
justification
for
the
termination
of
the
individual
I
am
not
I,
don't
I
would
be
I,
don't
think
I'm
not
as
concerned
about
things
swinging.
One
way
or
another
I
mean
I.
Think
it's
more.
C
The
collective
action
problem
of
trying
to
get
a
super
majority
of
people
to
support
the
removal
of
an
individual
who
may
be
derelict
in
their
duty
is
a
very,
very
steep
burden
in
the
positive
removal
sense
and
so
I
I
remain
firmly
in
support
of
a
majority
vote.
G
Sorry
I
guess
I
do
need
to
clarify
a
few
of
you
have
referred
to
the
idea
that
the
city
manager
could
only
be
removed
for
dereliction
of
Duty.
It
is
true
that
their
job
is
to
professionally
do,
and
Ian
can
speak
to
this
better
than
me.
G
Can
professionally
deliver
services
and
administration
in
the
operation
of
city
government
in
an
a
political
manner,
but
in
the
end
it's
not
like
there's
a
this
is
not
the
equivalent
of
a
disciplinary
hearing
when
and
if
counsel
chooses,
to
terminate
the
city
manager
where
they
have
to
put
on
a
case
to
show
the
city
manager
didn't
do
a
good
job.
There
are
four
cause.
If
you,
when
we
get
to
the
template
employment
agreement,
your
agenda
packet,
there
are
four
cause
bases
for
termination,
there's
also
in
that
template
employment
agreement.
G
Just
to
be,
you
know
upfront
about
it,
given
that
we
are
discussing
it
here,
there's
a
category
called
discretionary
removal
and
what
you
all
are
discussing
in
the
hypothetical
that
we've
been
discussing.
The
idea
that
a
majority
of
council
might
lose
faith
in
the
city
manager
that
doesn't
necessarily
equate
to
having
shown
that
the
city
manager
did
some
particular
thing
that
violated
the
terms
of
their
Employments.
G
So
I
do
want
to
be
clear
that
their
election
of
Duty
is
not
the
only
basis
for
the
city
manager
to
be
terminated
and
Ian
can
speak
much
better
than
me,
too.
Sort
of
how
that
works
generally
with
city
manager.
Models
across
other
cities,
but
but
but
I,
but
I
know
that
it's
common
as
I
understand
it
for
legislative
body
to
retain
the
right
to
change
city
managers
when
they
no
longer
have
the
confidence.
As
a
few
of
you
have
said
in
a
particular
city
manager,.
B
No
I
I
think
I
already
spoke
to
it.
I
think
that's
fine!.
I
I'll
just
further
add
that,
while
the
referendum
was
underway
for
the
city
manager,
I
encountered
a
lot
of
folks
who
had
cautions
and
apprehensions,
and
it
expressed
to
me
that
they
were
not
in
support
of
the
referendum
because
they
were
concerned
and
even
had
folks
who
were
in
support
but
had
shared.
These
you
know
concerns
that
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
the
democratic
engagement
with
sit
with
the
city
and
the
common
Council
would
be
hamstrung
if
the.
I
If
we
move
to
a
city
manager
model
and
we
would
not
be
able
to
elect
the
chief
executive
of
the
city
and
I
think,
a
a
well-founded
sort
of
counter
to
that
was
that
we
would
Calvin
Council
would
remain,
would
retain
control
over
the
hiring
and
removal
of
this
person
and
and
and
and
be
sure
to
oversight
and
manage
them
as
they
under
underway,
go
underway
with
their
duties
to
the
best
of
our
ability.
And
so
that's
and
so.
I
For
that
reason,
and
that
concern
for
Democratic
processes
and
engagement
and
not
wanting
to
stretch
out
the
distance
between
the
public
and
the
executive
of
the
city
I.
Believe
it's
really
important
that
we
stick
closer
to
a
simple
majority,
because
it's
going
to
be
a
lot
more
difficult.
If
we
feel
the
need
to
remove
this
person,
if
we
do
not,
you
know,
adhere
to
that.
A
Thank
you,
I
will
just
add
that
a
few
of
you
have
commented
that
you
would
like
more
time
to
read
carefully
and
digest
this,
and
it
is
completely
my
fault
for
not
getting
this
material
out
sooner
partially.
In
response
to
Jorge's
last
point,
one
of
the
things
that
will
be
important
is
performance.
Reviews
of
the
city
manager,
so
city
manager,
will
be
hired.
A
There
will
be
goals
established
by
the
city
manager,
performance
goals
that
will
be
presented
to
council.
Council
will
have
opportunity
to
comment
on
those
performance
goals
and
then
Council
will
have
the
responsibility
to
meet
with
the
city
manager
for
performance
feedback
on
at
least
once
a
year
and
with
a
performance
evaluation
each
year.
So
there
will
be
a
number
of
steps
whereby
Council
has
responsibility
to
work
with
the
city
manager
on
achievement
of
goals,
stated
goals
Cynthia.
F
Thank
you
for
highlighting
that
I
really
appreciated
the
inclusion
of
that
in
this
contract.
I
thought
it
was
a
brilliant
aspect
to
constantly
have,
or
continuously
and
annually,
have
a
dialogue
between
Council
and
the
city
manager
to
review
how
things
are
proceeding.
Look
at
long-term
Vision
as
well
as
short-term
implementation,
so
I
I
appreciate
you
reminding
us
of
that
and
I
do
think
that
that
brings
in
that
constant
oversight
and
accountability
by
the
city
manager
to
council.
F
My
inclination
is
to
support
a
majority
plus
one
which
I
guess
would
be
seven
I
do
think
back
to
times
where
a
super
majority
is
required
of
us.
For
example,
anytime,
the
the
city
passes
an
ordinance
that
is
subject
to
the
comment
of
the
county
I'm
looking
to
re,
for
example,
that
makes
a
comment
about
a
zoning
law
or
other
ordinance.
F
F
So
if,
if
you're,
just
taking
notes
of
where
people
are
thinking
about
that,
I
am
in
support
of
majority
plus
one
I
do
have
some
other
comments
about
the
document,
so
I'm
very
grateful
that
we
have
more
time
to
review
this.
Some
of
the
comments
are
really
minor.
I'll
start
from
2A
and.
G
Which
is
on
the
I
just
want
to
make
sure
I
understand
whether
you're
expressing
favor
for
majority,
plus
one
or
two-thirds
majority,
plus
one
being
seven
two-thirds
being
eight,
because
you
have
to
round
up
and
I'll
note
that
my
tentative
understanding
is
that
of
municipalities
that
require
more
than
a
majority
for
removal
of
the
city
manager.
Two-Thirds
is
more
common
than
majority
plus
one,
not
that
that
is
an
answer
one
way
or
another.
It's
just
information.
F
Thank
you,
I
mean
my
gut
actually
goes
with
two-thirds,
but
I'm
not
hearing
support
from
my
colleagues.
So,
in
which
case,
having
heard
from
two
of
my
colleagues
who
are
support,
majority
plus
one
Donna
supports
two-thirds
I'm,
flexible
I
would
my
gut
would
say
two-thirds,
but
if
majority
plus
one
is.
K
N
C
F
F
Yeah
I
think
right
now,
I'm
looking
at
this
contract
as
what
is
the
environment,
that's
going
to
invite
the
quality
and
caliber
of
city
manager
that
we're
looking
for
I.
Think
professionals
look
for
stability.
They
look
for
continuity.
They
look
for
you
know
if
you're
relocating
your
family
in
your
home
to
a
new
city
and
state,
you
want
to
have
an
environment
where
perhaps
you
might
not
be
so
subject
to
political
whims
and
I.
F
Think
as
a
majority,
a
simple
majority
does
not
provide
that
kind
of
stability,
and
so
going
for
majority
plus
one
or
two-thirds
gives
an
indication
that
there
has
to
be
like
an
incredibly
strong
commitment
to
remove
someone
in
order
to
remove
someone.
So
that's
why
I'm
looking
at
it
more
from
a?
How
do
you
create
an
attractive
position
versus
experiences
of
other
councils?
A
So,
just
before,
turning
to
George
Cynthia,
you've
said
that
you
have
a
few
added.
Some
of
them
may
be
minor.
I
know
that
others
have
said.
You
do
want
time
to
to
look
at
this
and
additional
time
to
look
at
this.
So
I
just
want
to
point
out
that
we
are
not
taking
a
vote
tonight.
A
This
is
like
a
committee
and
we
will
be
looking
at
it,
August
2nd
when
people
will
have
had
more
time
to
read
through
this
more
carefully
so
I.
Don't
do
you
want
to
save
some
of
your
minor
edits
for
that
later
date,
or
do
you
want
to
identify
a
few
of
those.
F
The
the
one
that
just
sort
of
jumped
out
at
me
that
I
thought
was
very
interesting.
I
want
to
know
more
about
is
2E
which
states
the
city
manager
shall
have
the
duty
and
authority
to
prescribe
the
duties
and
fix
the
compensation
of
all
officers
appointed
by
the
city
manager
and
of
all
employees
of
the
city,
not
otherwise
provided
for
by
this
chapter.
J
F
We
2E
it's
on
page
three
So.
Currently
the
compensation
I
believe
for
department
heads
is
approved
by
Council
I,
believe
we
have
a
managerial
unit
or
I
forget
the
name,
but
it's
approved
by
Council.
This
seems
to
imply
that
that
Council
approval
is
not
there,
except
for
perhaps
through
the
budget.
F
So
I
wanted
Clarity
on
this,
because
this
seems
a
diversion
from
our
current
practice
and
I'd
like
to
know
more
about
what
is
being
proposed
here.
I
know,
Council
has
obviously
the
power
to
approve
the
budget,
and
if
they
disagree
with
the
city,
managers,
hiring
somebody
and
just
setting
a
salary
without
prior
without
console
approval.
We
have
the
ability
to
change
it,
but
this
Clause
I'd
like
to
look
at
again
and
understand
exactly
is:
is
this
saying
that
Council
does
not
have
the
power
to
approve
compensation
of
department
heads.
G
So
that's
certainly
not
the
intent,
a
good
question
and
certainly
not
the
intent.
If
you
know
we'll
look
at
this
language,
some
more
and
see
if
we
in
my
office
or
HR
or
Ian
or
or
Council
ultimately
feels
that
a
different
language
would
be
a
different
language
would
be
appropriate.
What
we
are
getting
at
in
this
Clause
is
to
is
the
idea
that
within
budgetary
authorizations,
so
so
I'll
give
you
an
example
right
now,
when
the
city
makes
certain
external
hires
right
now
within
budgetary
authorization.
G
The
mayor
currently
can
exercise
discretion
over
the
salary
step
that
an
external
hire
is
assigned
to
I
believe
this
Clause
would
vest
similar
Authority
in
the
city
manager
for
that
kind
of
circumstance.
But
that's
within
the
budgetary
authorizations
and
salary
ranges
established
by
the
common
council
is
not
letting
the
city
manager
go
out
and
write
some
new
budget
because
they
felt
like
it
for
for
a
given
position.
Yeah.
A
And
I
I
saw
Shelly
shaking
her
head
and
then
raise
her
hand
so
Shelly,
would
you
like
to
comment
on
this?
No.
O
Actually
Ari
just
said
what
I
was
going
to
add.
The
the
compensation
plan
will
continue
to
be
set
by
Common
Council,
so
it
either
way
I
interpreted.
That
was
just
as
we
do
now.
We
have
the
plan
and
the
mayor
currently
has
the
authority
to
within
that
plan,
bring
someone
in
at
any
step.
F
F
So
you
know
wanting
to
make
sure
that
we
still
have
the
same
department
head
hiring
process
as
before.
We're
not
seeking
we're
not
seeing
like
a
dramatic
adjustment
to
our
hiring
processes.
What
this
is
clearly
just
saying
that
in
lieu
of
the
previous
mayor's
position,
as
you
mentioned,
having
the
ability
to
adjust
and
negotiate
within
the
pre-approved,
not
only
compensation
package
but
aforementioned
hiring
process
for
department
heads.
A
I
think
that's
department
head
hiring
department
head
hiring
recommendations
would
continue
to
come
to
council,
but.
A
So
that,
just
as
now
when
there
is
a
recommendation
for
a
department
head
hiring
the
example
that
comes
to
mind
most
readily
is
there
was
a
recommendation
from
the
mayor,
and
this
is
based
on
the
search
team.
Of
course,
search
team
makes
a
recommendation
to
the
mayor.
The
mayor
made
the
recommendation
to
hire
Lisa
Nicholas
as
the
department
head
for
planning
and
development
that
comes
to
Common
Council
for
a
decision.
That's
brought
it's
a
recommendation
from
the
mayor
in
The
Future
model.
It
would
be
a
recommendation
coming
from
the
city
manager.
G
And
and
I
my
recollection
and
understanding
is
that
e
that
language
in
E
that
you're
too
e
that
you're
referring
to
Cynthia
is
the
language
currently
in
the
charter
as
applicable
to
the
Met
to
the
current
mayor
under
our
current
model.
G
So
the
kinds
of
concerns,
you're
expressing
I,
understand
and
I
guess
my
answer
would
be
look
at
the
way
it
works
currently
with
the
mayor
in
terms
of
us
prescribing
duties
and
compensation
for
employees.
That
report
to
the
mayor,
and
this
this
would
be
the
same
idea
just
with
a
city
manager
in
the
mayor's
Place.
F
F
My
my
other
discussion
item,
which
I
believe
Jorge
mentioned
at
the
very
beginning
which
I
would
like
to
learn
more
about,
is
the
Clause
of
non-interference
I,
think
that
deserves
some
understanding
of
what
the
intent
is
or
how
this
would
function.
C
G
Yes,
we
definitely
did
not
come
up
with
this
idea
out
of
whole
cloth.
It
has
precedent
and
I
will
work
on
digging
up
those
precedents,
yeah
and
if
Ian
has
comment
on
that,
I
expect.
That
would
also
be
helpful.
B
Yeah
I
would
say
the
same
thing,
but
also
yeah.
The
the
purpose
is
to
sort
of
get
to
the
the
roles
and
the
delineation,
particularly
of
the
role
of
the
city
manager
versus
the
subordinates
I
mean
I,
guess
you
could
say
the
worst
case
scenario.
It's
it's
attempting
to
mitigate
or
address
is
sort
of
the
end
around
or
the
the
direct
direction
from
Council
to
some
subordinates
of
the
city
manager
or
something
of
that
nature
again.
Purpose
and
intent
is
genuine.
B
Like
I
already
said,
I
think
we
we
could
take
a
look
at
maybe
some
of
the
practices
and
some
of
the
other
wording
around
this
subject,
but
that
that
is
the
intent
of
this
in
a
model.
Employment
agreement
is
to
sort
of
mitigate
that
kind
of
potential.
Worst
case
scenario.
A
Donna
and
then
Robert
I'm,
sorry
before
I
Turn
to
You
Are.
You
commenting
on
points
that
Cynthia
has
raised,
because
I
saw
that
George
had
his
hand
up
and
I
don't
want
to
skip
over
George.
If
he's
going
to
a
different
section
or
a
different
comment:
the
non-interference
okay,
it.
E
It
it
makes
sense
to
me
and-
and
you
can't
always
encode
for
common
sense
and
good
faith
and
good
Communications
I,
certainly
think
that
if
an
older
person
noticed
bizarre
incompetent
behavior
on
the
part
of
a
staff
member,
a
good
you
know
would
handle
a
conversation
discreetly
with
the
mayor.
Who
would
then
talk
to
the
city
manager?
What
you
don't
want
is
an
older
person
ordering
staff
around
or
or
bribing
department
heads
to
hire
their
nephew
or
something
like
that.
So
I
I
think
the
intent
of
this
makes
perfect
sense.
E
The
communication
channel
has
to
be
from
the
older
persons
to
the
mayor
to
the
city
manager
and
yes,
ideally,
everybody
should
have
a
good
relationship
and
be
able
to
talk
to
the
city
manager
comfortably
as
well,
but
when
it
comes
to
Personnel
to
managing
Personnel,
it
should
be
clear
what
the
lines
of
communication
are
and.
G
I
did
just
look
back
at
my
notes
and
found
them
that
that
non-interference
provision
we
drew
on
the
city
of
New
Rochelle's
city
manager
terms
for
that,
so
that
the
city
of
New
Rochelle
uses
a
clause
of
that
sort.
J
J
Steve
there
has
a
big
bowl
of
candy
in
his
office,
I
kind
of
like
going
in
there
once
in
a
while
and
also
I,
don't
think
it's
reasonable
to
expect
the
city
manager
to
be
the
go-between
in
every
situation.
I
mean
that
that
would
be
impossible.
So
maybe
the
language
needs
to
be
better
on
this.
One.
G
And
and
to
the
language
point,
you
just
referred
to
the
importance
of
being
able
to
ask
staff
questions,
and
so
so
the
legalese
that's
in
the
non-interference
Clause
to
that
point
is
it
says,
except
for
the
purpose
of
inquiry.
So
that's
that's
asking
questions
right.
It
is
saying
that
council
members
can
talk
to
staff
to
ask
questions.
Okay,.
J
I
have
two
minor
suggestions:
they
have
to
do
with
language
in
2A
and
the
second,
whereas,
where
it
says
the
voters
of
the
city
overwhelmingly
approved
I,
don't
think
we
need
the
word
overwhelmingly.
We
just
they
just
approved
it
and
and
number
two.
J
On
page
three
f,
where
it
says
to
exercise
constant
supervision
over
the
conduct
of
all
subordinate
officers,
I'm
thinking,
all
we
need
to
say
is
to
exercise
supervision.
J
And
yeah
and
I
guess:
that's
it.
That's
all
I
got.
L
F
That
members
of
council
have
made
appeals
to
the
mayor
about
individuals
that
we
had
hoped
to
be
selected
for
as
a
department
head,
we've
made
appeals
directly
publicly
stated
publicly,
that
of
who
we
wanted
appointment
as
as
chief
of
police.
So
this
is
saying
that
no
counsel
should
request
the
appointment
of
a
person
to
be
employed
by
the
city
manager
right.
The
city
manager
appoints
the
chief,
you
know
of
police,
and
it's
saying
here
that
councils
should
not
make
a
request
to
the
city
manager
of
who
we
think
should
be
the
department
head.
F
You
know
this
seems
to
say
that
no,
it's
not
the
jurisdiction
of
the
council
or
its
committees
or
members
again.
It
says
direct,
but
I'm
not
talking
about
direct
but
or
request
the
appointment
of
any
person
too
or
their
removal
from
office
or
employment
by
the
city
manager
or
this
or
any
of
the
city
miners
subordinates.
F
So
I
just
feel
that
one
of
the
significant
things
that
we
do
this
is
just
saying
that
our
our
job
is
to
stamp
the
appointment
of
the
city
manager
and
I
I
think
that
it
needs
to
be
more
expensive
than
this.
So
I
just
am
raising
caution
about
how
this
is
worded
and
I.
Don't
know
if
this
is
exclusively
our
intent.
G
And
Cynthia
you
seem
to
be
distinguishing
between
I
think,
implicitly,
distinguishing
between
appointments
that
are
subject
to
council
approval
and
I
want
to
be
clear.
G
This
Clause
is
obviously
does
not
and
cannot
diminish
councils
right
to
vote
to
approve,
for
example,
department,
head
appointments,
that's
written
right
into
the
Code
Council
would
still
have
a
vote
on
whether
any
given
Department
had
were
confirmed
or
not
so,
but
you
seem
to
be
implicitly
distinguishing
between
appointments
that
the
city
manager
might
bring
forward
or
make
that
are
subject
to
council
approval
and
ones
that
are
not.
As
that
fair
way,.
F
To
counselor,
because
this
is
saying
that
we,
we
should
buy
code
remain
silent,
On,
Our
intention,
so
if
I
were
publicly
to
say,
I'm
requesting
the
city
manager
appoint
this
person.
I
am
now
violating
this
code,
because
I'm
making
a
request
right
and
I
I,
don't
think
that
the
that
Council
should
buy
its
own
code
silence
itself
in
a
request
that
it's
making
with
regards
to
an
appointment
of
a
department
head
or
any
of
the
department
managers
subordinates.
F
I
I
think
this
is
too
restrictive.
I
understand
that
we're
not
looking
for
interference
but
I
I
think
it
needs
to
maintain
the
voice
as
representatives
of
of
the
city
or
of
our
constituents,
to
be
able
to
be
able
to
bring
that
voice
forward
in
the
administration
of
our
different
departments
and
the
services
that
we
provide.
C
Thank
you
yeah.
Also
on
the
non-interference
point,
Cynthia
I
think
you
raised
really
good
points,
so
thank
you
for
for
doing
that.
I
am
questioning
whether
or
not
this
is
the
most
like.
If
the
charter
is
the
most
appropriate
place
for
this,
because
when
we
had
our
last
Committee
of
the
whole
meeting,
when
we
were
talking
about
rules
of
sorry
two
meetings
ago
about
rules
of
procedure,
I
think
we
were
gesturing
towards
modeling.
C
After
what
the
Tompkins
County
Legislature
does,
with
respect
to
one
of
which
you
explicitly
covered
are
a
the
routine
requests
for
information.
One
sort
of
non-routine
that
require
minimal
amounts
of
work,
and
then
this
the
special
thing
that
requires
coordination
with
the
city
manager
and
I
just
want
to
make
sure
I
guess
in
two
parts
one
would
this
now
prohibit
us
from
being
able
to
engage
in
like
rutiny
rootinized
activity
along
that
line
and
then,
secondly,
is
again:
I
I'm
I'm,
remembering
from
my
my
Council
orientation?
C
Are
you
always
told
us
try
to
if
you're
going
to
pass
legislation,
try
to
do
it
at
the
lowest
level
possible
in
the
event
that
it
needs
to
be
changed
or
whatever
and
so
want
a
second
Cynthia's
Point,
ask
that
question,
and
then
also
ask
like
is:
is
the
charter
the
most
appropriate
place
for
this
language
to
be
included.
G
Sure,
no
thank
you
so
Cynthia's
Point
that
you're
also
seconding.
It's
definitely
a
policy.
Choice
Council
needs
to
decide
what
it
wants
to
do
with
it.
I
don't
I,
don't
think,
there's
an
automatic
answer,
and
there
is
Nuance
there
to
to
the
to
the
points
discussed
to
the
question
of
how
this
provision
in
the
charter
would
relate
to
rules
of
procedure.
Elements
that
you
were
just
referring
to
that
might
also
address
similar
matters.
G
There's
no
doubt
that
the
charter
would
Trump
any
rules
of
procedure,
issues
to
your
point
and
that
Council
would
want
to
make
a
comprehensive
set
of
choices
about
both
that
are
synced
up
with
each
other.
It
is
definitely
an
option
to
put
a
provision
like
this.
Only
in
rules
of
procedure.
G
You
are
correct
that
in
principle
it
is
better.
It
is
best
to
place
any
given
legal
provision
in
our
code
or
Charter
at
the
lower
level
of
legal
formality.
That's
required
to
your
point,
however.
I
will
say
with
respect
to
much
of
what's
in
here
and
I'm,
not
speaking
to
non-interference
in
particular
when
I
say
this,
but
with
respect
to
much
of
what's
in
the
proposed
Charter
Provisions
here
in
this
local
law
that
we're
discussing
tonight,
the
city
manager
is
a
major
position
for
the
city.
G
The
idea
that
key
elements
of
how
the
city
manager
would
interact
with
the
common
Council
and
do
its
job
would
be
addressed
in
the
city.
Charter
I
do
think
is
appropriate,
just
like
other
key
positions,
and
obviously
the
mayor
currently
is
addressed
in
the
charter
and,
frankly,
just
like
the
city
manager
per
the
local
law
that
was
approved
at
referendum
now,
also
to
some
extent
of
threat
to
the
Charter.
G
So
I
do
think
the
charter
is
an
appropriate
place
for
much,
if
not
all,
of
what's
in
this
local
law.
It
sounds
like
you
agree
with
that
and
so
yeah.
There
are
definitely
policy
choices
at
the
edges
here
about
which
particular
Provisions
end
up
in
the
charter
and
which
ones
you
might
want
to
bring
to
either
the
code
or
Council
rules
or
procedure.
I
think
those
are
definitely
valid.
Choices,
as
is
the
policy
conversation
around
this
class.
A
M
And
to
that
point
like
I
could
go
either
way.
I
see
the
I'm
trying
to
remember
on
the
boards
that
I've
served
on
whether
like.
P
M
Is
a
a
good
practice,
I
think
it's
well
understood
whether
it's
a
government
or
or
a
non-profit,
with
the
board
of
directors
or
cooperation
with
the
board
directors
that
you
know
micromanage
so
I
guess
I'll
just
throw
in
there
too
that
if
it's
in
the
charter
there's
a
some
protection
for
the
employees
of
the
city
in
case,
Council
becomes
really
irrational
in
the
future,
but
I
could
go
either
way
and
but
I
still
share
the
concerns
that
have
been
expressed
and
so
I
think
there's
some
tweaking.
That
could
be
that
we
had.
A
C
You
just
for
clarification
point
so
we
will
be
discussing,
but
not
voting
on
the
August
councils
that
you're
suggesting.
G
As
to
no
no
that's
a
good
question,
so
I
I,
my
Impressions
is
maybe
the
right
word
to
use
is
that,
with
the
exception
of
agenda
either
the
last
agenda
item
regarding
BPW
on
here
that
all
the
other
items
on
this
list
could
be
discussed
or
voted
on
as
Council
sees
fit
at
the
August
council
meeting,
I
will
say
that
the
sooner
Council,
which
doesn't
necessarily
mean
it's
the
August
council
meeting,
but
the
sooner
that
Council
reaches
Clarity
on
terms
around
the
city,
manager's
position
and
the
rules
that
will
govern
that
position.
G
The
more
stability
that
we
will
be
able
to
provide
to
the
recruitment
process,
which
Ian
can
I'm
sure
speak
to
more
and
and
these
that
this
local
law
help
helps
with
that.
So
that
said
to
pass
a
local
law,
as
we
discussed
earlier,
so
I
won't
belabor
the
point
that
has
to
be
laid
on
the
table
in
its
final
form.
G
F
Okay,
one
significant
change,
then
so
again,
if
you
can
send
us
the
word
document
on
this,
so
we
can
provide
it
in
a
red
line
form
for.
F
Let's
see
officers
who
serve
as
the
deputies
or
assistant
department,
heads
of
their
respective
departments
and
appointed
by
their
respective
department
heads
since
in
2021
we
did
not
Envision
a
deputy
City
Manager
for
Public
Safety
I.
Think
we
need
to
include
mention
of
this
position
as
a
position
to
be
appointed
by
the
park
department
head
because
it's
not
included
in
the
2021,
vocal
law
and
I.
Don't
think
it's
included
here.
F
G
F
F
G
I
know
I
understand
what
you're
getting
at
and
also
true
that
it
is
addressed
in
one
form
in
2C
now.
A
Critical
questions
points
to
be
included,
Robert
I
I
see
your
hand
just
a
moment
it.
There
was
one
comment
that
it
is
getting
late.
I
will
say
that
we
will
not
be
addressing
what
is
number
five
BPW
on
the
agenda
tonight.
That
will
be
discussed
at
a
later
time,
but
Robert
go
ahead.
C
Just
two
suggestions
from
other
charters
in
New
York
state
that
I
had
had
the
opportunity
to
read
in
the
last
two
days
that
I
think
would
be
worthy
of
inclusion
under
B
section
two.
What
I
would
call
subsections,
Q
and
R
which
do
not
exist
at
the
moment.
My
first
suggestion
is:
adding
a
responsibility
to
quote:
develop
and
Implement
a
program
of
annual
evaluation
of
all
city
employees
for
the
purpose
of
maintaining
and
improving
employee
performance
and
then
are
to
provide
staff
support
service
for
the
mayor
and
common
Council.
C
Just
two
suggestions
for
us
to
mull
over
as
part
of
those
responsibilities.
E
C
In
the
same
way
that
we're,
including
a
lot
of
like
rote
things
that
are
important
for
the
job
and
implicit
but
require
statutory
authorization
I,
just
maybe
it's
covered
elsewhere,
but
I
just
feel
like
the
ability
for
Council
to
request
staff.
Support
on
legislative
initiatives
should
probably
be
included
as
a
responsibility
unless
that
is
covered
elsewhere.
I.
A
Think
that
would
I
would
like
to
see
that
in
in
writing,
because
you
know,
if
you're
going
to
make
a
suggestion
for
additions.
Why
don't
you
provide
that
in
written
form,
and
we
can
consider
that
when
we
discuss
this
at
greater
length,
okay
I
do
want
to
move
us
along.
A
So
we've
been
talking
about
the
local
law.
Are
there
comments
and
I
I
almost
hesitate
to
open
this,
because
again,
this
was
sent
on
Monday
the
template,
template
employment
agreement
or
contract.
Again,
we
are
not
voting
on
this
tonight.
A
A
discussion
at
the
August
meeting
are
there:
are
there
comments
on
this
that
are
crucial
to
make
tonight.
A
All
right
so
I'm
going
to
suggest,
then
that
we
take
the
time
to
review
the
template
and
come
to
August,
2nd
prepared
to
discuss
and
comment
and
vote
on
on
that.
M
Dachshund
can
I
also
suggest
just
like
Robert
will
probably
send
some
text
around
like
feel
free
to
email,
all
of
us
ahead
of
time
and
not
just
bring
stuff
until
I
guess
and
not
only
bring
stuff
up
at
the
August
discussion.
Yeah.
G
To
that
same
point,
I
do
want
to
note
that,
depending
on
the
type
of
feedback
that
we
receive,
if
from
Council,
if
that
feedback
is
substantive-
and
we
don't
receive
it
until
the
August
meeting
to
the
point
that
you're
making,
we
might
need
time
beyond
the
couple
hours
in
the
in
the
meeting
itself
to
make
adjustments
that
are
being
requested
so
that
whether
if
August
2nd
is
the
first
time
that
we
receive
some
substantial
feedback
on
this.
G
A
Back
okay,
thank
you.
I
do
want
to
move
us
forward,
though,
because
there
are
other
significant
areas
here
that
I
would
like
Council
input
on
so
item.
Three
is
update
on
the
search
process.
A
I
think
we've
been
talking
about
that.
There
is
a
resolution,
but
before
we
turn
to
this
resolution
that
that
addresses
a
proposal
for
the
search
team
composition,
Ian
did
you
have
any
comments
to
make
in
advance
of
that
on
the
search
process.
B
B
So
I
have
certainly
some
missing
pieces
to
that,
some
of
which
we
discussed
today,
including
certainly
compensation
but
but
I
started
to
work
on
that,
because,
obviously,
then
we
could
just
insert
in
the
missing
pieces
at
the
appropriate
time,
so
we're
pretty
much
ready
to
roll,
and
that
would
be
my
My
Hope
and
my
goal
that
once
we
get
the
full
clarification
and
confirmation
on
where
we
want
to
be
with
salary
and
any
other.
B
You
know
major
pieces
to
some
of
the
items
discussed
when
the
local
law
was
brought
up
or
the
you
know:
employment
agreement
particulars
but
yeah.
B
That's
that's
really
ready
to
roll
I've
been
sort
of
hinting
at
the
fact
on
on
professional
networks
and
and
LinkedIn,
and
some
associations
I'm
involved
with
that
it's
forthcoming,
so
I
have
had
actually
a
couple
of
inquiries
already
from
interested
parties
or
just
you
know,
people
that
are
acquiring
on
on
where
this
is
going
and
timing
and
and
some
questions
and
things
like
that,
so
that
that's
where
I'm
at,
but
certainly
you
know
it,
it
will
be
a
waiting
period
until
such
time
as
as
we
get
those
those
final
confirmations
and
clarifications.
B
But
but
in
the
interim,
continuing
to
work
through
that
and
and
one
of
the
questions
is-
is
really
on
it's
more
of
like
down
the
road
but
just
kind
of
addressing
having
Council
address
it
at
this
point
in
time,
which
is
you
know,
a
search
committee
or
a
search
team
and
the
composition
thereof
and
I'll
turn
it
back
over
to
you
Lord
to
guide
that
along.
A
Okay,
thank
you.
So
in
the
packet
there
is
a
proposal,
a
resolution
for
a
search
team,
an
executive
committee
of
council.
A
As
we
see
tonight,
it
is
important
to
have
lengthy
discussions
in
which
all
of
common
council
is
involved.
These
are
important
decisions
that
everyone
has
to
be
engaged
in.
A
At
the
same
time,
there
is
a
need
for
what
we
might
consider
calling
an
executive,
Search
team
of
council
members
who
would
report
fully
to
Common
Council,
sorry
I'm,
just
searching
for
this
now
and
once
the
suggestion
that
is
before
you
tonight
is
for
an
executive,
Search
team
to
work
with
in.
A
Let
me
take
a
step
back
as
the
position
is
formally
advertised
as
we
have
the
brochure
position
formally
advertised
applications
will
come
in
to
Ian
who
is
retained
as
our
consultant
and
to
HR.
There
will
be
some
initial
screening
of
applicants
and
then
a
set
of
applications
will
come
for
consideration
by
Council,
The
Proposal.
You
have
in
front
of
you.
This
is
3A.
Is
a
proposal
for
a
search
team
to
be
comprised
of
a
four-member
executive,
Search
team
of
common
council
members.
A
The
thinking
is
that
both
of
our
standing
committees
are
chaired
by
obviously
members
of
common
Council
having
council
members
on
those
committees
the
so
that
would
include
Rob
Gerhart
as
chair
of
planning
and
economic
development,
Robert
cantelmo
as
chair
of
City
Administration
Phoebe
Brown,
who
is
the
liaison
to
the
workforce,
diversity,
advisory
committee
and
alderperson
Donna
Fleming,
based
on
Research
conducted
previously,
while
involved
in
the
2021
resolution
that
came
to
council
and
then
provided
the
foundation
for
the
the
referendum.
A
So
having
them
both
serve
on
the
executive
search
team
does
make
sense,
and
similarly,
the
last
result
that
is
here
is
the
inclusion
of
Four
City
department
heads
to
serve
on
the
search
team,
and
you
see
those
department
heads
identified
as
Chief
covert,
IFD
Chief,
HR
Director
Shelley
Michelle
Nunn,
who
also
will
serve
as
the
search
committee
chair,
Lisa,
Nicholas
planning
and
development
department
head
and
Mike
Thorne
DPW
superintendent.
A
This
proposal
is
for
your
consideration
and
the
search
team
would
be
reporting
to
the
full
Council
when
there
are
finalists.
A
Those
finalists
would
come
before
Council
and
other
key
stakeholders.
Community
stakeholders,
as
their
candidacy,
is
being
considered
so
I'd
like
to
ask
for
your
consideration
of
two
things.
This
as
a
plan
and
second,
the
addition
of
the
mayor,
which
that's
my
fault,
I,
neglected
to
include,
as
the
in
fact
final
resolved.
A
F
Thank
you
I
appreciate
that,
and,
and
thank
you
for
consideration
of
this
one
of
the
things
that
I'm
very
mindful
of
you
know.
Obviously
I
made
a
reference
to
it
in.
My
previous
comment
is
I'm
very
mindful
of
our
commitment
to
the
reimagining
public
safety
process,
implementing
just
structural
change
within
the
city,
with
law
enforcement,
with
inclusion
of
new
divisions
of
a
co-response
team
inclusion
of
lead
into
how
we
approach
a
law
enforcement
or
interaction
approach.
A
Well,
I
will
point
out
that
at
the
moment
we
have
an
acting
chief
of
police,
which
you
all
are
aware
of,
and
I
will
also
point
out
that
all
departments,
all
Council
other
key
stakeholders
will
most
definitely
have
opportunity
to
meet
with
candidates.
F
I
appreciate
that,
but
I
I
think
what
I'm
to
have
that
seat
at
the
table
as
part
of
the
the
interview
process
in
terms
of
the
the
questions
that
are
selected
as
part
of
the
interview
process
in
terms
of
evaluating
the
candidates
that
are
being
brought
forward
in
terms
of
the
applications
and
resumes
and
experience
to
have.
F
The
involvement
of
the
acting
chief
of
police
seems
important
to
get
that
for
perspective
in
terms
of
a
department
that
is
going
to
be
much
more
actively
involved
with
the
city
manager
than
in
the
past.
F
It
is
in
sorry,
may
I
respond,
it
is,
but
we
they
the
whole
reimagining
Public
Safety
process
describes
a
civilian
oversight,
Over
law
enforcement
in
a
way
that
had
not
been
engaged
with
previously
a
much
more
active
role
in
civilian
oversight.
Over
Law
Enforcement,
making
sure
that
there
is
coordination
and
inclusion
and
participation
of
law
enforcement
with
County
Mental
Health
Services,
with
addiction
recovery
assistance
with
this
new
division
that
we're
putting
in
place
so
I
I.
Think
the
level
of
involvement
is
nowhere
near
that
of
what
the
police
department's
involvement
will
be.
A
Well
again,
I
will
just
point
out
that
the
Police
Department,
the
acting
chief,
will
have
opportunity
to
meet
candidates.
Ask
questions
yeah
Phoebe,
had
your
hand
up,
I,
think
and
then
ducks
in.
H
H
Isn't
a
debate?
This
is
just
an
observation
and
we
all
have
our
opinions,
but
I
think
right
now
that
we
are
still
building
and
healing
with
the
ipd
I
mean
I
know
we
have
some
real
cheerleaders
for
ipd,
but
we
also
are
still
healing
and
working
on
building
relationships
right
and
they
will
be
able
to
be
involved.
A
Okay,
thank
you.
Yes,
I
think
ducks
in
and
Rob
Texan.
M
M
I
appreciate
the
time
they're
going
to
put
in
you
know:
they'll
do
the
Deep
dive
they'll
all
have
a
chance
to
to
give
input,
and
it's
actually
one
thing
that
I'm
ready
to
vote
on
tonight,
because
I
want
to
get
the
process
started.
Asap.
A
J
I
think
it
would
be
good
to
include
the
acting
Chief
of
Police,
maybe
even
more
with
no
offense,
but
adding
the
mayor.
I
would
prefer
to
add
the
acting
Chief
of
Police.
A
Okay,
well
we're
not
going
to
vote
on
this,
but
I
would
like
actually
we're
going
to
vote
to
take
this
Laura.
Oh.
O
O
Sort
of
quickly
I,
I,
I
I,
think
the
concern
that
Cynthia
raises
is
a
valid
concern
I,
but
the
city
manager,
going
back
to
what
doug
Jackson
said,
the
city
manager's
relationship
with
all
the
Departments
department
heads
and
we
just
can
have
every
department
head
on
it,
but
I
think
the
deputy
city
manager,
whose
Position
will
be
direct
I,
think
there's
more
rationale.
O
A
A
A
All
right
and
then
we
do
have
a
local
law
entitled
clarification
of
capital
program,
committee,
leadership
and
Steve.
If
you
don't
mind
joining
us
for
this
discussion
and
I
appreciate
very
much
you
being
here
late,
along
with
the
rest
of
us.
K
A
A
If
you
look
at
the
2021.
A
Is
identified
as
responsibility
of
the
city
manager
so
Steve
and
Ari?
If
you
could
please
respond
to
this
local
law.
G
You
want
me
to
start
yep
right,
I.
Think
there's
two
elements
to
this.
One
is
to
explain
the
city's
budget
process
and
how
both
how
that's
currently
structured,
but
maybe
more
importantly,
how
that
is
structured
in
the
new
system
with
city
manager.
G
G
That
is
absolutely
the
city
manager,
and
so
one
area
and
I
will
leave
the
rest
of
that
conversation
for
Steve
to
present
on
in
terms
of
how
the
budget
process
works,
how
it's
proposed
to
work
and
how
it
is,
in
fact
structured
to
work
beginning
next
year
with
a
council
manager
form
of
government.
G
The
other
element
to
address
is
on
the
legal
side
simply
to
speak
to
the
point
that
they're
amongst
the
numerous
authorities
of
the
mayor
that
were
deleted
from
the
Charter
and
code
and
reassigned
to
the
city
manager.
By
and
large,
in
the
2021
legislation,
That
Was
Then
approved
at
referendum.
G
There
was
one
in
inadvertent
Omission
from
that
list
of
deletions
and,
and
that
was
the
chair
of
the
capital
project,
Review
Committee,
which
actually
has
a
more
formal
name
in
the
code,
but
that's
exactly
what
it's
referring
to
and
it
is
Crystal
Clear.
What
council's
intent
was
as
laid
out
here
and
that
the
chair
responsibilities
were
assigned
to
the
city
manager,
there's
an
inadvertent
failure
to
also
delete
them
from
from
the
mayor's
right
there
yep.
G
So
that's
the
that's
the
basic
information
on
it
and
I.
Think
with
that.
It
probably
makes
sense
for
Steve
to
just
briefly
describe
how
the
budget
process
will
work
with
the
city
manager,
especially
around
the
capital
project,
capital
budget
process.
P
Is
the
chair
of
this
this
committee
for
capital
projects?
Currently
capital
projects
are
very
important
to
the
city,
so
we
developed
that
through
a
committee
structure
and
which
includes
myself
and
the
mayor.
Also,
the
director
of
planning
and
also
the
superintendent
of
Public
Works,
are
all
on
that
committee.
P
Developing
all
the
projects
or
upcoming
year,
and
also
the
you
know,
a
five-year
to
ten
year
look
at
capital
projects
and
needs
for
the
city,
so
obviously
making
this
change
in
structure
just
basically
would
incorporate
the
city
manager
in
instead
of
the
mayor
there
and
would
the
city
manager
would
then
be
the
chair
of
the
committee
moving
forward
for
the
capital
projects.
P
And
then
bring
that
forward
to
council
for
approval
during
the
following
Year's
budgets.
A
Thank
you.
It's
a
cleric
clarification
of
what
had
been
the
intent
from
the
the
beginning
of
discussions
around
city
manager
and
the
budget
right.
P
And
it's
as
I
mentioned,
it's
important
that
the
CEO
is
is
at
the
chair
of
this
committee,
so
yeah
that
changed
needs
to
be
made.
A
Yes,
thank
you
Steve,
thank
you
Ari,
so
Ari
do
we
need
to
vote
on
this
vote
to
send
it
to
August
or
actually
vote
on
the
local
law
clarifying.
G
This
this
is
I
would
recommend
that
Council
I
mean
again.
We
are
at
a
committee
level.
Meeting
tonight.
I
would
recommend
that
Council
in
as
far
in
its
Committee
of
the
whole
Forum
take
a
vote
on
this
and
if
it
sees
fit,
send
it
on
out
of
committee
to
August
2nd
Council
so
that
it
can
receive
a
final
vote
there,
which
will
also
give
us
an
indication
that
we
should
go
ahead
and
lay
it
on
the
table
prior
to
that
August
second
meeting,
so
that
it's
ready
for
a
vote.
A
Robert,
oh
okay,
Robert
moves
Rob
seconds,
all
those
in
favor
of
moving
this
on
all
right.
Great.
Thank
you
and
thanks
very
much
Steve
for
staying
with
us
and
thank
you
Ari
for
staying
with
us
and
thank
you
Ian
for
staying
with
us
as
well.
A
And
Shelley,
yes:
okay,
as
I
indicated,
we
will
hold
on
item
five
on
this
agenda.
So
is
there
a
motion
to
adjourn?
J
H
Thanks
Amy,
thank
you.
That's
I'm,
really
great
loss,
but
we've
also
lost
Khalil
Bay
Abdullah
Khalil
Bay.
Our
artists.
H
He
did
the
big
mural
next
to
the
giac,
pull
and
quite
a
few
more
around
here,
and
he
was
my
assistant
coordinator
with
the
lives
of
families
for
justice.
So
last
Wednesday
we
lost
Khalil,
and
this
was
them
finding
out
about
Lee
can't
believe
it,
but
may
they
all
rest
in
peace.
Thank
you.
Yeah.
A
Yes,
Let's
celebrate
one
another
as
often
as
we
can.
Yes
all
right.
Thank
you,
George.
Thank
you.
Phoebe.