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A
A
A
Sure
go
to
more
okay
and
then
no
don't
do
that.
Go
to
participants.
A
B
E
D
G
D
All
right,
why
don't
we
go
go
ahead
and
get
started
so
welcome
to
tonight's
meeting
of
the
planning
and
economic
development
committee.
I
guess
the
first
thing
on
the
agenda
is
any
changes
to
the
agenda.
I
don't
believe
there
are
any
right.
D
C
Correct,
yes,
I
don't
believe
we
have
anyone
signed
up
for
the
iura
mini
action
plan
hearing
so.
D
Why
don't
we,
I
guess
we
could
move
forward
with
opening
the
the
public
hearing
on
the
iura
mini
action
plan.
D
G
C
D
All
right
so
look
for
a
motion
to
open
the
public
hearing
on
a
move
by
laura
lewis
seconded
by
steve
smith.
This
is
a
public
hearing
on
the
hud
action
plan.
This
is
an
inhs
project
that
they're
looking
to
refurbish
a
home
on
auburn
street
and
we
don't
have
anyone
tonight.
I
believe
that
signed
up
for
this
so
seeing
that
there
are
no
people
to
speak
on
this
topic
move
the
to
close
the
public
hearing.
D
Is
there
a
motion
moved
by
laura
seconded
by
steve
all
in
favor
of
closing
the
public
hearing,
and
that
carries
an
end
of
sleep?
I
I'm
noticing
that
cynthia
is
not
in.
Is
she.
D
C
D
All
right
so
tonight
we
scheduled
a
special
order
of
business,
a
presentation
from
terry
carroll
from
cornell
cooperative
extension.
This
is
on
community
choice.
Aggregation,
I
don't
know
terry.
Are
you
available?
D
D
All
right,
that's
great,
so
yeah,
so
just
by
way
of
introduction.
You
know
this
is
an
initiative.
Actually
rod
house,
the
the
town
of
ithaca
supervisor,
has
done
a
lot
of
work.
Kind
of
coordinating
this
effort
among
a
lot
of
municipalities
in
tompkins
county,
pushing
forward
with
community
choice,
aggregation
which
is
another
great
way
to
you,
know
fulfill
our
sustainability
goals
and
reducing
greenhouse
gas
emissions.
D
I
believe
donna
fleming
who's
also
on
the
the
planning
committee
had
done
some
work
on
this
topic
a
little
bit.
You
know,
as
a
member
of
t
cog,.
I
D
Terry
has
been
has
been
working
on
this
and
his
role
through
cce
and
you
know,
has
been
doing
presentations
to
a
number
of
different
municipalities
throughout
the
county,
and
I
think
the
idea
tonight
is
that
we're
looking
to
potentially
participate
in
this
as
the
city
and
joining
the
towns
efforts
and
other
municipalities
that
are
looking
to
move
this
forward.
So
with
that,
terry,
thank
you
for
joining
us
tonight
and
now
I'll
give
you
the
floor.
H
Fantastic
and
am
I
able
to
share
my
screen-
I
think
I
can
okay
fantastic,
so
I
have
a
quick
presentation.
Can
you
see
my
screen?
Yes,
fantastic,
so
you
know,
as
seth
said,
we're
going
to
be
talking
about
community
choice,
aggregation
and
I'll,
give
a
quick
overview
of
what
community
choice.
Aggregation
is
and
then
talk
a
little
bit
about
where
the
efforts
are
right
now
in
tompkins,
county,
so
steph
said,
I'm
terry
carroll.
H
I
serve
as
the
clean
energy
communities
coordinator
here
in
the
southern
tier,
so
I
manage
the
program
overall
in
the
southern
tier,
but
I
work
directly
for
cornell
cooperative
extension
and
one
of
the
reasons
why
I'm
doing
this
is
because
that
clean
energy
communities
program
is
now
out
with
a
new
round.
It
was
just
released
a
couple
weeks
ago
and
in
that
new
round,
there's
new,
clean
energy
actions,
new
ways
for
communities
to
be
recognized
as
leaders
over
800
000
in
available
funding
and
community
choice.
Aggregation
is
actually
one
of
the
actions.
H
So
what
is
cca
and
at
its
most
basic
level,
community
choice,
aggregation
that
abbreviation
we
keep
referring
to
cca
is
a
bulk
buying
agreement
for
energy
supply,
either
electric
or
natural
gas
by
one
or
more
municipalities
on
behalf
of
its
or
their
residents,
and
to
understand
this
a
little
bit
more.
You
first
have
to
understand
how
energy
bills
work
in
new
york
state
and
so
in
new
york.
We
are
deregulated
or
we're
decoupled
from
energy
production
for
the
electric
utilities.
H
H
They're
gonna,
you're,
still
gonna
see
increases
for
operations
and
maintenance
or
for
improvements
to
their
delivery.
Infrastructure
and
rate
increases
will
unfortunately
continue
under
cca.
When
it
comes
to.
You
know
the
delivery
side.
The
energy
supply
is
a
different.
You
know
story
so
right
now,
if
you
decide
not
to
choose
your
electricity
supplier,
you
are
basically
letting
nyseg
default.
You
know
choose
for
you,
and
so
what
nysec
will
do
is
for
anyone.
That's
not
choosing
they'll
go
on
the
wholesale
market
and
they'll
purchase.
H
You
know
electricity
in
bulk
and
then
pass
it
on
to
you,
and
that
supply
is
just
a
straight
past
they're,
not
making
any
profit
on
buying
that
and
that
wholesale
price
is
going
to
vary.
You
know
not
only
sometimes
by
the
time
of
day,
but
often
by
the
time
of
year,
so
when
it
gets
to
cca.
This
is
what
a
bill
with
cca
looks
like,
and
this
is
actually
a
real
bill
from
someone
down
in
the
village
of
ouigo,
who
has
a
renewable
electricity,
cca
and
so
you'll
see
that
left-hand
side
still
looks
pretty
familiar.
H
You
still
have
that
blue
box
with
the
delivery
chart,
which
is,
but
what
you'll
also
get
is
another
page,
and
some
of
you
that
might
be
on
an
esco
will
already
be
familiar
with
this
and
that
back
page
is
going
to
have
the
electricity
supply,
and
in
this
case
it
also
incorporates
a
message
saying
you
know
this.
Is
you
know
your
electricity
supply
is
coming
from
a
community
choice
aggregation.
You
know
it's
being
run
by
mega,
it's
100
renewable
electricity.
H
So
what
does
this
have
to
do
with
municipalities?
Well,
basically,
what
ended
up
happening
is
you
know.
Several
years
ago
april
2016
the
public
service
commission
decided
that
municipalities
can
pass
a
local
law
to
purchase
energy
supply
on
behalf
of
residents
in
small
commercial
accounts,
so
any
municipality,
and
it
has
to
be
done
at
the
lowest
level.
So
village,
you
know,
village
residents
would
have
to
have
their
village.
Do
it.
H
You
know,
city
residents
would
have
to
have
their
city
do
it
and
basically,
if
those
villages,
cities,
towns,
pass
the
local
law
they'll
take
on
the
procurement
for
that
default
supply
for
their
residents.
So
anyone
that's
not
choosing
their
electricity
would
have
that
electricity
chosen
that
electricity
supply
chosen
for
them
by
the
municipality
now
once
again,
there's
only
about
20
percent
of
people
that
are
choosing
their
own
electricity
supplier,
their
energy
supplier.
Those
folks
wouldn't
be
affected
by
this.
H
So
to
put
it
in
a
different
visual
to
maybe
help
illustrate
a
little
bit
more.
You
know
you're
still
going
to
have
generating
resources,
you
know,
and
the
cca
is
either
going
to
be
buying
or
in
some
cases,
building
that
energy
supply,
the
delivery
is
still
going
to
be.
There
they're
still
going
to
be
delivering
the
energy
they're
going
to
be
maintaining
the
lines
billing,
the
customers-
that's
all
still
going
to
be
taken
care
of
by
nice
egg
and,
ultimately,
the
customer
is
going
to
hopefully
benefit
from
more
affordable
rates.
H
Some
local
control,
cleaner
energy,
and
it
should
still
be
pretty
seamless.
They
should
still
be
getting
that
bill
straight
from
the
utility,
as
they
always
did
now.
Cca
isn't
a
new
concept.
It's
not
unique
to
new
york
state.
We
see
this
in
california,
we
see
it
in
massachusetts
and
it's
becoming
increasingly
more
popular
all
across
the
united
states
and
here
in
new
york
state
there's,
61,
municipalities
that
have
taken
the
steps
have
passed
the
local
law
and
are
actively
engaged
in
community
choice.
H
So
your
partners
in
this
process,
if
you
choose,
are
what
are
called
the
cca
administrators
and
these
are
consultants
nonprofits
in
some
cases,
community
groups,
in
other
cases
that
have
basically
been
brought
on
you
know
to
help
municipalities
in
this
process
and
they've
had
a
whole.
You
know
plan
that
they've
submitted
to
the
public
service
commission.
That's
in
many
cases
been
approved
and
the
public
service
commission
has
said
yep
you
can
go
ahead.
H
You
can
partner
with
these
municipalities
to
run
these
ccas,
and
so
you
have
good
energy
jewel
assets,
the
municipal
electric
and
gas
alliance
mega,
which
many
of
you
might
be
familiar
with,
and
then
westchester
power,
and
so
westchester
power
you
know,
is
arguably
the
oldest
and
most
successful
of
the
ccas.
You
know-
and
this
is
centered
around
as
you
could
imagine
westchester
county
and
they
have
91
000
members
at
27,
municipalities
and
they're.
H
Currently,
almost
you
know,
all
of
those
municipalities
are
deciding
to
go
with
the
100
green
option,
which
is
pretty
incredible
because
when
they
started
back
in
2016
there
was
only
three
or
four
that
decided
to
do
that.
So
we've
really
seen
a
transition
from
a
lot
of
those
groups
to
say:
hey.
We
want
to
offer
100
green
energy.
As
you
know,
the
default
option,
the
others
have
been
more
recent
in
their
ccas
and
in
total
80
municipalities
have
authorized
cca,
but
only
61
have
taken
that
next
step
to
actually
go
and
procure
the
supply.
H
So
if
you
were
to
listen
to
nyserda
the
new
york
state,
energy,
research
and
development
authority,
they
would
say
that
you
know:
ccas
are
fantastic
they're
there
for
local
elected
officials
to
be
able
to
choose
the
source
of
supply
for
their
community
and
the
reason
they
would
do.
That
is
because,
if
you're
bulk
purchasing
you're
going
to
get
a
more
competitive
supply
and
ultimately,
if
you
can
help,
you
know,
build
larger
and
larger
ccas
you're
going
to
have
larger
and
larger
market
cloud.
You're
going
to
be
able
to.
H
You
know,
get
better
prices
and
terms
on
the
supply
and
basically
start
to
offer
some
other
services.
But
with
that
said,
there
are
some
considerations,
so
some
of
the
things
that
we've
seen
are
that
in
ccas
you
know
in
some
cases
they
might
actually
end
up.
You
know
procuring
an
energy
supply
and
electricity
supply
in
this.
H
These
cases
that
are
higher
than
what
the
nysek
supply
costs
might
otherwise
be,
and
you
can
see
this
on
the
right
on
the
chart
on
the
right,
where
that
green
line
represents
the
the
rate
that
the
cca
was
offering
for
green
energy.
The
black
line
was
the
non
green
rate
and
then
those
blue,
you
know
bar
charts
kind
of
going
up
and
down.
That
was
the
nicer
great
over
time.
So
you
can
see
in
some
instances
it
was
cheaper
and
in
some
instances
it
was
more
expensive.
H
So
that
is
definitely
a
consideration
and
a
concern
for
a
lot
of
groups.
The
other
concern
that
many
of
us
have
has
to
do
with
the
customers.
You
know
so
most
people
aren't
paying
attention
to
their
electricity
bills,
their
energy
bills,
and
you
know
it
can
be
pretty
daunting
to
suddenly
find
out.
Oh
my
gosh,
you
know
the
the
municipality
is
taking
this
on.
What
does
that
mean
you
know,
and
if
you're
trying
to
move
in
you
know
out,
opt
in
or
opt
out,
there's
billing
questions.
H
You
know
it
ends
up
requiring
a
bit
of
management
to
do
all
this,
and
you
really
need
to
have
a
strong
plan
for
outreach
and
communication,
especially
education,
to
make
sure
that
municipalities
understand
or
excuse
me
residents
understand
what's
going
on
so
that
all
leads
to
what
is
going
to
be
the
level
of
municipal
effort.
You
know
so
municipalities
have
to
understand
ahead
of
time.
What
exactly
are
they
going
to
get
into?
What
is
going
to
be
expected
from
them?
H
What's
going
to
be
expected
from
maybe
an
administrator
or
another
group
that
they're
partnering
with
and
really
you
know
you
have
to
make
a
smart
decision
of
you
know.
Is
this
something
that
we
really
want
to
get
involved
in?
But
despite
all
of
these
considerations,
we
still
see
cca
as
a
really
fantastic
thing,
because
it
has
so
much
potential.
H
The
other
side-
and
this
is
particularly
important
for
the
city
of
ithaca
with
the
green
new
deal-
is
that
this
is
a
potential
way
to
get
almost
all
of
your
residents
onto
100
renewable
electricity
all
at
the
same
time.
There's
no
other.
You
know,
method
or
venue.
That's
going
to
allow
you
to
do
that,
and
so,
if
you're
trying
to
reach
you
know
certain
emissions
targets,
cca
is
a
critical
component.
To
that
you
know.
H
The
other
side
is
yes,
cca
is
complicated
and
energy
is
complicated,
but
because
you're
going
to
be
doing
education
and
outreach
based
on
the
cca.
This
is
really
an
opportunity
to
enhance
that
community
energy
literacy,
and
by
doing
so
you
might
be
able
to
develop
some
local
resources,
hopefully
create
some
local
jobs.
You
know
start
to
look
at
tangential
industries
or
services.
So,
looking
at
you
know,
can
we
promote
local
energy
efficiency
companies,
heat
pump,
companies,
ev
storage
and
really
can
we
start
to
make
this
a
program?
H
That's
going
to
work
for
everyone,
you
know
and
specifically
catering
to
low-income
residents
and
really
trying
to
target
them
and
make
sure
that
they're
getting
affordable
electricity
and
affordable
energy
and
most
of
all,
it
is
really
in
some
cases
about
keeping
that
energy
investment,
local.
So
not
necessarily
shipping
off
all
your
energy
costs
to
you
know:
trans
net,
multinational
companies-
or
you
know
solar
developers
that
are
from
you
know
four
states
away
if
not
four
countries
away.
H
So
that's
something
to
to
consider
when
it
comes
to
cca's
potential
so
where
we
are
now
in
tompkins
county
is
that
there's
been
a
tcog
working
group?
That's
met
throughout
2020
and
we've
had
a
bunch
of
webinars
covering
a
range
of
cca
topics,
they're
all
available
on
our
website.
So
that's
southerntiercec.org
and
just
look
for
webinars
and
you'll
find
them
there
encourage
all
of
you
to
take
a
look
at
that.
H
But
the
next
step
is
going
to
be
really
finding
out
what
communities
are
actually
interested
and
really
what
are
they
going
to
require
in
order
to
participate
in
a
cca?
Is
it
going
to
have
to
be
a
100
renewable
electricity
cca?
Is
it
going
to
have
to
be
cheaper
than
the
current
nice
egg
prices,
or
could
it
be
even
the
same
as
what
they
are?
Are
there
other
potential
things
that
they
want
to
see
out
of
a
cca
in
order
for
them
to
join?
H
So
all
of
that
is
is
currently
in
the
works,
and
so
I
think
what
rod
and
others
that
are
working
on
this
are
looking
for
is
to
just
see
who's
interested.
You
know
are
folks
willing
to
to
put
their
you
know,
name
in
the
the
proverbial
ring
to
to
say,
okay.
Well,
I
want
to
work
on
this.
I
want
to
make
this
an
issue
that
I
I'm
interested
in
or
at
least
to
find
out
from
municipalities.
H
Is
this
something
that
you're
willing
to
consider,
or
is
this
completely
off
the
table?
So
it's
a
lot
to
cover
in
a
short
amount
of
time,
but
you
have
a
big
agenda
and
I
know
there's
a
lot
of
folks
that
want
to
get
to
the
green
building
policy.
So
if
you
have
any
questions,
feel
free
to
email
me,
I'm
happy
to
talk
about
this
further.
We're
also,
like
I
said,
have
we
have
all
the
webinars
up
on
our
website.
So
that's
a
plethora
of
information,
that's
available
to
you,
so
you
know
please
check
that
out.
H
It's
once
again,
it's
southerntearcec.org!
If
you
want
to
go
in
and
learn
a
little
bit
more
about
this
topic,
so
I'll
stop
there,
and
I
don't
know
if
you
have
time
for
questions
right
now
stuff
or
if
you
want
to
just
jump
straight
to
your
next
thing.
D
I
really
appreciate
you
coming
tonight
and
you
know
we've
been
meeting
with
this,
this
working
group
that
you
mentioned
a
little
bit
and
you
know
at
this
point
I
think,
there's
definitely
a
consensus
around
like
def
like
exploring
this
and
kind
of
you
know
seeing
if
this
is
something
we
want
to
move
forward
with,
but
you
know
wanted
terry
to
come
tonight
because
obviously
this
is
something
that
would
need
buy-in
from
the
common
council
if,
if
it
was
going
to
be
successful,
so
just
wanted
terry
to
come
tonight
to
kind
of
just
give
an
overview,
but.
G
D
Know,
terry,
if
you,
if
have
we
considered
the
idea
of
maybe
like
passing
the
municipalities
like
passing
resolutions
in
support
of
this?
Is
that
something
that,
if
you're
looking
for
a
statement
of
support
from
the
city
like,
what's
the
best
form
to
do
that,.
H
Yeah,
so
we
I
think
the
conversations
are
still
ongoing.
As
far
as
I
recall,
the
grant
doesn't
require
letters
of
support.
I
certainly
don't
think
it
would
hurt
at
some
point.
You
know
moving
forward.
There
is
going
to
come
to
a
point
where
there's
going
to
have
to
be
a
memorandum
of
understanding
between
all
the
different
municipalities
that
are
engaging
in
this
process,
to
figure
out
whether
they
all
have
the
same
interest
and
they're
willing
to
go
in
this
together.
H
You
know
and
ultimately
the
way
the
ccas
work
is
that
there's,
usually
a
memorandum
of
understanding
between
a
municipality
and
an
administrator.
So
those
are
things
that
are
further
in
the
future,
but
certainly
I
think
a
resolution
saying
you
know
the
city
is
interested
in
cca
were
supportive
of
the
efforts
going
on
in
tompkins
county
and
looking
to
procure
funding.
I
don't
think
that
would
go
a
mess,
but
I'd
also
don't
think
that
it's
you
know
necessary
at
this
point.
J
Thank
you,
terry.
I
really
appreciate
the
presentation
as
you
go
forward,
if
we
could
have
more
information
in
terms
of
what
would
the
financial
commitment
be,
that
would
be
required
by
municipalities
either
for
administration
or
support
or
or
other
types
of
of
ongoing
financial
commitments
or
staffing
commitments.
I
think
is
important
to
to
understand,
but
otherwise
it
looks
like
a
very
innovative
and
and
thoughtful
program
to
put
into
place,
and
I
appreciate
learning
more
about
it.
H
Yeah,
absolutely
I'd
be
happy
to
come
back
again
and
talk
about
it
sometime.
You
know
the
short
of
it
is.
The
cca
is
supposed
to
once
it
gets
up
and
running,
be
self
financing.
You
know
taking
a
small
portion
of
the
rates
that
are
passed
on
to
the
customers,
to
finance
the
administration
and
take
that
burden
off
of
the
municipalities.
D
Thank
you
any
other
questions
comments,
so
you
know
I
really
appreciate
you
coming
tonight.
Terrell
and
you
know
you're
terry.
I
think
this
could
be
a
great
addition
to
our
green
new
deal
and
like
really
helped
to
fulfill
a
lot
of
our
sustainability
goals.
You
know
we've.
G
D
A
concern
about
the
green
new
deal
or
the
green
building
policy
that
we're
kind
of
prioritizing
electrification
ahead
of
energy
conservation,
and
you
know
I
think
something
like
this-
could
really
potentially
help
with
that.
To
ensure
that
you
know
the
electric
electrical
sources
that
we're
getting
are
really
all
100
renewable.
So
I
mean
personally,
I
think
this
is
something
that
you
know.
I
I
definitely
I'm
excited
about,
and
I
hope
that
we
can
at
least
move
forward
with
exploring
if
this
is
feasible,
so
really
appreciate
you
coming
tonight.
D
D
Okay,
so
we'll
we'll
let
them
in
one
at
a
time
and
just
to
reiterate
the
rules.
You
get
three
minutes
to
speak
before
the
committee
and
if
you
could
state
your
name
and
place
of
residence
for
the
record,
that
would
be
appreciated
and
joanne
will
hopefully
give
you
a
warning
when
you
have
a
minute
left.
C
Okay,
I'm
not
sure
but
bruce
and
or
doug
britton.
So
I'm
gonna,
let
you
guys
in.
K
L
Oh
okay,
hi!
That's
me!
Thank
you.
This
is.
Is
this
bruce
or
doc?
This
is
dog:
okay,
okay,
okay!
That's
that
that
that's
the
order
we
signed
up
in
okay,
okay,
thank
you,
hi
doug
britton,
this
iecs
project
that
you
folks
are
working
on,
I
think,
is
very
important.
I
thank
you
for
doing
it.
L
M
L
Unfortunately,
there
are
one
or
two
of
those
in
your
plan
too
it'd
be
nice
to
get
rid
of
them.
The
reason
it
can
occasionally
hurt.
There
are
a
couple
of
underlying
problems
that
create
that
one
is,
of
course,
the
grid
isn't
very
green.
According
to
nice,
egg,
solar
plus,
wind
plus
hydro,
currently
adds
up
to
less
than
20
percent
of
our
power.
So
what
that
means
is
80
is
what
I
would
call
dirty
power.
L
So
if
we
keep
adding
more
people
to
electrical
usage
without
increasing
the
green
power
infrastructure,
at
least
as
quickly,
you
know,
it'll
be
forever
before
we
can
close
down
the
coal
plants
and
the
gas
plants
and
whatnot.
The
other
under
thing.
To
keep
in
mind
is
that
power
generation
is
very
inefficient.
L
If
you
have
like
a
gas
furnace,
you
can
get
like
97
efficiency.
I
mean
it
creates
co2,
which
is
a
problem,
but
it's
efficient.
If,
instead,
you
say
I'm
going
to
heat
with
typical
electrical
resistance,
heat
and
use
electricity
from
the
power
plant.
Well,
if
you
burn
the
gas
at
the
power
plant,
it
can
only
convert
about
36
of
that
into
percent
into
electricity.
Not
97.,
and
so
what
that
means
is
you
would
wind
up
burning
over
two
times
two
and
a
half
times
as
much.
L
Okay,
you
end
up
burning
over
two
and
a
half
times
as
much
natural
gas
to
heat
your
house,
which
is
really
not
a
very
good
thing
to
do,
and
unfortunately,
the
plan
the
way
it's
written
allows
for
that,
and
it
would
be
nice
if
it
didn't.
So
I
guess
the
bottom
line
is.
I
would
suggest
that
you
comb
through
your
plan
carefully
keep
the
good
stuff
that
helps
and
the
stuff
that
is
counterproductive,
modify
it
and
thank
you
very
much,
I'm
glad
you're
doing
this.
Thank
you.
Doug
appreciate
it.
M
M
I
should
also
point
out
that
doug
and
I
are
both
engineers
and
we're
not
just
bozos
off
the
street,
although
some
could
perhaps
be
forgiven
for
thinking
that
at
times
again,
I
also
wanted
to
address
the
iecs.
M
It's
climate
change
is
is
important
and
it
needs
to
be
addressed.
I'm
glad
you're
doing
something,
but
I'm
afraid
the
current
draft
is
not
the
best
approach.
As
doug
was
saying
it's
it.
It
emphasizes
electrification
rather
than
reduction
in
greenhouse
gases,
either
through
conservation
or
by
using
each
each
energy
source
to
its
best
advantage.
M
Clean
renewable
energy
is
being
used
just
as
quickly
as
it's
being
produced.
Any
new
electrical
demand
on
the
system
will
have
to
be
met
by
an
increase
in
dirty
production
from
coal
or
natural
gas,
and
sort
of
what
doug
was
saying.
Our
our
house
is
heated
by
gas.
It's
around
97
percent
efficient.
If
we
change
to
electric
heat
the
electricity.
M
M
We
did
send
you
emails
happy
to
talk
about
those
with
anyone,
just
if
I
can
bring
up
one
minute.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
One
one
point:
just
burning
of
of
wood,
pellets,
burning
carbon
versus
burning
hydrocarbon
carbon
produces
twice
as
much
co2
as
natural
gas
and
so
or
as
a
right.
M
So
what
you
end
up
with
is
you'd
be
better
off
keeping
a
tree
alive
and
sequestering
co2
and
burning
natural
gas
instead
of
cutting
the
tree
down,
making
it
into
pellets
and
burning
those,
but
instead
of
keeping
the
tree
alive
the
the
way
this
draft
is
written.
You
award
five
points
for
burning
pallets
five
out
of
the
six
that
you
need,
and
I
don't
know
there
are
other
issues
we
could
get
into,
but
not
not
within
the
next
several
seconds
that
are.
C
G
I
A
student
at
cornell
I
live,
and
I
live
in
ithaca
and
tonight
I'll
be
speaking
about
the
green
building
policy.
So,
as
everyone
knows,
in
order
to
have
a
livable
future,
we
need
to
decrease
our
fossil
fuel
consumption.
A
big
part
of
that
is
through
reducing
building
emissions,
and
so
I'm
so
glad
that
the
city
is
focusing
on
decreasing
emissions
from
new
buildings.
I
Now
we
need
to
raise
our
standards
and
increase
our
commitment
to
addressing
climate
change
by
strengthening
the
proposed
green
building
policy
and
there's
two
main
things
I
want
to
emphasize
tonight.
The
first
is
increasing
the
number
of
points
required
for
development
from
6
to
12
points.
I
We
really
have
to
do
all
that
we
can
to
reduce
greenhouse
gas
emissions
and
increasing
the
number
of
points
developers
must
reach
we'll
do
that.
We
also
really
need
to
reinstate
the
zero
fossil
fuel
prerequisite
for
a
building
to
receive
custom
energy
improvement
points.
I
We
also
just
need
to
look
forward
to
when
these
buildings
will
be
standing,
hopefully
for
many
years
to
come,
and
we
don't
want
to
have
a
have
to
retrofit
buildings
in
a
couple
of
years
so
that
they
can
use
alternate
alternative
energy
sources.
We
should
address
the
issue
now
by
incentivizing
developers
to
eliminate
fossil
fuels
from
new
buildings,
so
yeah.
I
C
I
see
no,
we
will
let
people
in
to
the
a
meeting
when
it's
their
turn
to
speak.
C
C
So
next
I
will
let
in
john
grace
and
if
hector
comes
back
then
we
will
let
him
in.
D
D
C
C
N
Okay,
so
I'll
read
my
little
statement
here:
okay,
so
my
wife
and
I
and
41
of
our
south
hill
neighbors
have
signed
a
city
and
town
wide
petition
in
support
of
the
ithaca
energy
code
supplement
ordinance.
This
petition
was
emailed
to
you
by
sarah
hess
from
fossil
free
tompkins
and
the
last
time
I
looked,
it
was
at
122
names.
N
The
only
proviso
attached
to
the
petition
is
to
implement
the
iecs
immediately
and
move
the
requirement
for
reaching
net
zero
carbon
emissions
for
new
buildings
and
major
renovations,
five
years
forward
from
2030
to
2025.,
given
the
amount
of
new
greenhouse
emissions
added
to
the
city's
carbon
footprint
from
ithaca's
building
boom
over
the
last
few
years.
This
seems
like
very
reasonable
request,
so
so
reasonable.
In
fact,
it's
worth
looking
ahead
to
the
next
iecs
challenge:
removing
the
barriers
that
block
existing
homeowners
in
our
city,
neighborhoods
from
working
together
to
reach
net
zero
carbon
emissions
collectively.
N
Solving
this
challenge
will
require
considerable
neighborhood
outreach
and
should
be
embedded
in
phase
two
of
the
city's
new
comprehensive
plan
as
soon
as
possible.
As
a
reminder,
south
hill
is
next
on
that
phase
two
list.
We
are
still
anxious
to
get
started
on
developing
a
new
neighborhood
plan,
which
now
should
include
an
equitable
and
affordable
path
towards
net
zero,
carbon
emissions
for
existing
residential
dwellings
and
self-help.
C
N
K
I
guess
my
time
is
that
my
time
is
starting
yes,
so
my
name
is
hector
chang.
I
live
in
ithaca,
I'm
the
interim
program
director
at
bike,
walk
tompkins,
commissioner
on
matcom.
I
want
to
quickly
speak
to
you
guys
about
the
walkability
standard,
which
is
I,
which
is
something
that
we're
con.
I'm
concerned
about
we're
concerned
about.
K
Oh
sorry,
sorry,
my
youtube
was
still
open,
so
I
was
like
whoa,
so
the
walkability
standard.
We
think
that
we
know
that
there's
been
some
concern
about
the
standard
being
too
basically
too
easy
to
get
like.
We
built
a
very
nice
dense
compact
community
that,
if
any
developer
wanted
to
build,
they
would
qualify
for
this
walkability
standard
at
the
point
for
that
and
our
proposal,
and
that
we've
sent
is
that
we
should
strengthen
it.
K
Transportation
is
a
big
carbon
emitter
and
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
use
all
tools
available
to
try
to
reduce
the
carbon
emissions
of
our
community,
both
in
buildings
but
also
in
terms
of
transportation.
So
strengthening
that
standard
might
be
a
choice,
but
also
something
that
seems
to
be
oddly
missing
is
that
there
is
no
standard
for
kind
of
like
prioritizing
the
existing
sustainable
boats
of
transportation,
and
that
includes
bicycling
and
transit.
K
So
we
provided
additional
suggestions
for
how
to
improve,
or
it
really
established
some
sort
of
markers
that
to
show
that
developers
are
prioritizing
a
multimodal
sustainable
mode
of
moving
around
that's
both
affordable,
just
and
sustainable.
Now,
and
in
this
into
the
future.
Just
a
quick
last
minute
thing
for
fun
fact:
some
of
the
biggest
most
most
effective,
like
electric
electrification
of
transportation,
activities
that
we've
done
in
ithaca
so
far,
the
first
one
was
in
2019.
K
There
were
over
13
10
000
people
using
lime,
e-bikes
30
of
them,
saying
that
they
reduced
a
single
vehicle
trip
by
using
one
of
these
bikes
so
think
about
that
scale
and
also
in
2021,
there's
going
to
be
60
seconds
that
will
move
thousands
of
people
sustainably
using
electricity.
So
we
want
to
make
sure
that
those
modes
don't
get
the
shortened
on
the
stick
when
it
comes
to
our
future
of
transportation
through
this
policy.
Thank
you
very
much.
C
Okay,
so
samuel
greenhouse
is
next.
A
C
D
O
Hi,
thank
you
for
organizing
this
little
bit
complicated
hearing.
My
name
is
sarah
hess.
I
live
in
the
city.
First,
I
want
to
acknowledge
the
125
people
who
signed
the
petition
john
just
mentioned.
O
O
I
say
this
because
that's
the
main
reason
why
we
want
to
speed
up
the
timetable
if
you
consider
getting
fossil
fuels
out
of
vehicles
by
comparison
that
can
happen
quickly,
just
by
replacing
gas
engines
with
electric
ones
over
the
next
five
to
ten
years.
Cars
have
a
short
life
span
compared
to
buildings,
but
the
buildings
in
the
city
make
up
forty
percent
of
our
emissions,
and
we
know
it
will
take
a
long
time
to
reduce
that
amount.
O
O
And
finally,
I
want
to
mention
affordable
housing,
because
that's
also
a
part
of
the
green
new
deal
in
terms
of
the
goals
of
it
and
for
both
equity
as
well
as
environment.
You
and
the
mayor
have
made
affordable
housing
a
priority
some
years
ago,
and
I
thank
you
all
for
that.
It's
a
very
tough
and
challenging
problem.
O
I'm
really
glad
to
see
that
the
priority
has
shown
up
in
some
new
buildings
going
up
around
town
the
priority
of
affordable
housing.
We
see
that
with
the
art
house
on
cherry
street
astairy
lakeview
apartments
on
court
street.
These
buildings
are
serving
both
goals,
affordable
housing
and
reducing
fuel
emissions
and
fossil
fuels
they're
already
being
built
at
a
higher
standard
than
our
current
code.
O
Financial
set
incentives
are
necessary
for
the
changes
and
we
have
some
the
ida,
abatements
community
housing
development
fund,
nyserda.
You
know
these
things
and
the
one
minute
financial
incentives
will
continue
to
be
necessary,
especially
when
it
comes
to
existing
buildings
and
the
challenge
of
getting
fossil
fuels.
Out
of
existing
buildings,
so
in
closing
I
just
want
to
thank
you
for
all
the
work
that
you've
put
into
this
and
thank
nick
and
ian
and
all
of
you,
it's
a
huge
task.
G
G
P
All
right,
hi
everybody.
Can
you
hear
me
yep,
okay,
excellent,
all
right,
all
right,
hi
good
evening,
my
name
is
mark
howell,
I'm
from
cornell
university
facilities
and
campus
services,
I'm
the
director
of
utilities,
distribution
and
energy
management.
So
I'd
like
my.
P
My
first
comment
is
in
response
to
the
advisories
committee's
comment
pertaining
to
cornell's
use
of
district
energy
systems
to
fulfill
requirements
of
commercial
compliance,
prescriptive
path,
ai2
heating
systems
in
the
heat
space,
so
the
advisory
committee
reasoned
that
the
losses
of
a
district
energy
system
are
significant
and
are
an
example
of
what
ai2
is
seeking
to
disincentivize.
P
So
this
comment
ignores
the
reality
that
all
energy
systems
experience
losses.
Additionally,
the
losses
of
district
energy
are
overstated.
Modern
district
energy
systems
have
significantly
lower
losses
than
systems
of
the
past.
Cornell
is
in
the
process
of
incrementally
modernizing
our
district
energy
system,
including
a
project
last
year
at
north
campus,
another
this
summer
in
central
campus
and
a
third
planned
for
east
campus.
P
My
second
comment
pertains
to
process
load,
exemption
for
building
code
required
life
safety
loads,
so
medical
and
research
institutions
with
heavy
process
loads
are
driven
by
building
code
mandated
life,
safety
requirements
and
research
based
energy
demands.
Medical
and
research
buildings
should
not
be
penalized
for
these
life
safety
and
research
requirements.
One.
C
P
Okay,
thank
you.
Therefore,
process
load
should
be
excluded
from
both
the
baseline
and
proposed
calculations
for
all
options
under
c403
performance-based
compliance
path,
whole
building
path,
and
my
final
comment
pertains
to
the
greenhouse
gas
emission
factor
for
electricity
for
buildings
served
by
combined
heat
and
power
plants.
P
The
emission
factor
currently
specified
in
the
iecs
is
approximately
half
the
true
marginal
emission
factor
of
today's
electric
grid.
This
heightened
standard
results
from
the
current
drafts
comparison
of
cornell's
current
carbon
impact
to
a
projected
future
value
of
the
electric
grid.
Now
we
appreciate
that
the
city
and
town
recognize
the
overall
value
of
this
compliance
path
and
concept,
but
the
implementation
requires
significantly
higher
reductions
in
efficiency
than
other
compliance
paths
and
renders
it
in
practical
at
a
minimum
either.
P
A
baseline
emission
factor
for
the
path
should
be
to
change
over
time
to
reflect
the
actual
emissions
rate
of
the
electric
grid
or
the.
P
For
this,
compliance
path
should
similarly
based
on
future
lower
emission
projection
for
the
interconnected
system.
Thanks.
D
D
Q
Everyone
hear
me
great
hello,
everyone.
My
name
is
von
hull
and
I
am
an
undergraduate
student
at
cornell
university.
I'm
here
tonight
to
speak
on
behalf
of
sunrise,
ithaca
and
climate
justice
cornell,
and
I
am
here
to
advocate
for
a
stronger
green
building
policy.
Q
There
are
two
main
issues
that
I
would
like
to
discuss
tonight.
The
first
is
that
I
feel
very
strongly
that
all
custom
energy
points
need
to
have
a
prerequisite
that
there
are
no
fossil
fuels
in
the
building.
Ithaca
has
set
a
very
ambitious
and
important
goal
of
becoming
carbon
neutral
by
2030,
and
I
don't
see
how
we
can
achieve
that
goal.
If
we
continue
to
make
allowances
for
the
installation
of
fossil
fuel
systems,
I'm
disappointed
that
this
portion
of
the
energy
code
supplement
is
almost
taking
a
step
backwards.
Q
Q
Secondly,
I'm
also
strongly
urging
you
to
increase
the
number
of
points
necessary
for
development
from
six
to
twelve.
Six
is
too
low
of
a
minimum
developers
need
to
be
actively
working
to
make
buildings
more
sustainable
and
energy
efficient
and
setting
the
requirement
at
six
does
not
feel
like
a
strong
incentive
to
do
so.
If
the
buildings
aren't
being
held
to
a
high
standard
of
compliance.
I
fear
that
we're
not
going
to
be
able
to
reach
our
goal
of
carbon
neutrality
in
the
next
nine
years.
Q
We
can't
lose
sight
of
these
very
clear
goals
that
we
established
when
we
passed
the
ethical
new
deal
in
2019.
We
need
to
stick
to
these
goals
that
we've
set,
so
that
is
why,
when
the
final
version
of
the
green
building
policy
is
presented,
I'm
urging
you
to
both
require
a
zero
fossil
fuel
prerequisite
for
the
energy
efficiency
points
and
increase
the
total
number
of
points
required
from
six
to
twelve.
Q
We
have
the
health
of
both
our
climate
and
our
community
and
other
communities
at
stake
here,
and
we
didn't
make
really
large
and
decisive
steps
towards
sustainability
and
achieving
carbon
neutrality.
Thank
you,
and
I
appreciate
your
time
this
weekend.
D
C
D
C
R
Oh
okay,
I'm
sorry
I
was
uncomfortably
woefully
unprepared.
Here
I
was.
R
Let
me
just
run
over
here
so
yeah.
My
name
is
vivek
iyer.
I
am
a
resident
of
309
worth
street
and
ithaca.
I
submitted
written
comments
earlier
and
it's
a
I
don't
particularly
have
anything
to
add
to
that,
but
I
I
would
like
to
just
you
know
re-emphasize
that
there
needs
to
be
significant.
R
You
know,
thought
put
into
the
cost
side
of
things
and
how
it's
going
to
impact
housing.
Affordability,
that's
a
you
know,
big
concern
of
mine
yeah
because
of
my
experience,
building
the
house
and
you're
looking
for
land
you're.
Looking
for
hot
for
a
house,
I
am
concerned
that
anything,
that's
if
there's
significant
overreach
with
the
green
building
codes
that
will
increase
the
cost
of
ownership,
the
total
cost
of
ownership
for
for
middle
class
families.
R
So
that's
one
big
concern
of
mine
and
then,
as
I
stated
in
my
email
comments,
my
other
concern
is
that
some
of
the
proposals,
the
proposed
rules,
are
just
a
little
too
far-reaching.
I
I
think
it's
you
know.
Personal
autonomy
is,
is
important
and
you
know
in
looking
at
the
big
picture
if
the
city
can
achieve
substantial
reductions
in
carbon
emissions
through
you
know,
through
broader
measures
which
are
not
so
you
know
so
intrusive.
R
I
apologize
if
anyone
finds
the
word
offensive,
but
I
couldn't
think
of
a
better
word.
You
know
if
you
can
come
up
with.
You
know:
savings
carbon
emission
savings
through
other
mechanisms.
That
would
be
good
just
to
give
you
a
quick
example
walking
around
today
I
noticed
at
least
five
or
six
houses
where
there
were
massive
icicles
from
the
roofs
and
thanks.
That's
a
sign
that
there
is.
You
know.
R
Poor
attic,
insulation
and
attic
insulation
is
not
expensive
and
putting
that
you
know
is
it's
a
you
get
substantial
return
on
your
investment,
so
I
would
say
you
know,
focus
on
the
best
bang
for
the
buck
and
you
know
and
kind
of
cut
back
on
some
of
the
more
detail.
Do
this?
Don't
do
that
kind
of
guidance
to
the
citizenry?
So
that's
it.
Thank
you.
D
T
D
Problem,
you
might
be
muted
again.
D
No
problem
you're
all
set.
If
you
want
to
say.
S
So
I
want
I
just
wanted
to
speak
on
the
the
I
sorry
I
know
it's
going
under
a
new
name,
but
the
green
building
policy.
S
I
just
wanted
to
comment
about
how
I
support
the
passage
of
it,
but
I
do
think
that
there
is
room
for
improvements
and
I
definitely
think
that
making
these
changes
that
are
more
strict
on
new
development
is
super
necessary
for
meeting
climate
goals
and
as
a
resident
of
ithaca,
I
really
support
making
developers.
You
know,
take
taking
consideration,
clean
energy
goals
and
these
requirements
and
also
moving
the
timeline
up,
so
that
these
goals
are
more
prioritized
for
developers.
S
So
we
hit
these
goals
sooner,
like
20
25
instead
of
2030.-
and
this
is
really
important
to
me
as
someone
you
know-
who's
constantly
observing
you
know
the
effects
of
climate
dirty
energy
and
that
I
really
think
that
ithaca
is
a
great
place
to
have
these
really
progressive
policies
that
people
will
really
support
so
yeah.
I
I
appreciate
this
time
for
residents
to
air
their
opinions,
and
I
I
hope
that.
U
Thank
you
so
I'm
cold
and
fro.
I
live
in
ithaca's,
fifth
ward,
and
I'm
I'd
like
to
talk
about
the
green
building
policy
as
well
and
in
particular
its
timeline.
So
I
know
that
ithaca
has
the
goal
to
achieve
carbon
neutrality
by
2030.
U
According
to
the
green
new
deal,
and
I'm
concerned
that
with
the
green
building
policy,
as
it
is
and
being
a
key
aspect
towards
achieving
carbon
neutrality,
I
don't
think
that
this
goal
can
be
reached
because
the
enactment
of
the
green
building
policy
has
been
so
delayed
and
a
lot
of
its
aspects
have
been
weakened
as
it
has
been
delayed.
U
I
think
that,
since
the
green
new
deal
has
been
around
for
some
time
now,
and
the
green
building
policy
has
been
the
public
eye
as
well
for
quite
some
time
that
developers
have
had
enough
time
to
prepare
for
its
enactment
and,
in
addition,
since
the
green
building
policy
makes
great
use
of
current
technologies
and
nothing
that
is
too
groundbreaking
or
new
for
developers,
they
should
have
no
time
they
should
have
no
problem
in
enacting
or
in
and
enacting
this
policy.
Sooner
than
later.
U
I
think
that
this
this
policy
should
not
be
weakened
any
more
than
it
already
is,
and
in
particular
I'd
just
like
to
echo
the
previous
comments,
calling
for
a
higher
point
requirement
and
more
rigorous
standards
for
achieving
points,
and
I
think,
with
a
few
changes
that
the
I
think
with
a
few
changes.
The
green
building
policy
will
really
help
ithaca
achieve
its
goal
of
carbon
neutrality,
and
I
do
support
the
policy
and
I
hope
it
gets
passed
as
soon
as
possible.
Thank
you
for
your
time.
C
Okay,
katie
sims
is
next.
V
Hi
yeah
it's
a
little
jarring,
going,
not
hearing
the
meeting
from
the
zoom
and
then
going
back
and
forth
with
the
youtube.
So
yeah,
I'm
here
for
the
green
building
policy,
but
this
is
that
public
hearing,
I
guess
so
that's
clear.
The
green
building
policy
seems
to
be
stronger.
Every
building
that's
built
from
for
the
next.
V
What
years
at
2021
eight
nine
years
needs
to
be
carbon
neutral
by
2030,
or
else
the
city
of
ithaca
has
failed
on
its
goal,
and
so
that
means
that
every
building
has
to
be
ready
for
elect
for
well.
Well,
not
every
building
has
to
be
ready
to
like
have
on-site
renewables,
but
they,
like
should
be
the
they
need
to
electrify
and
increase
efficiency
at
the
same
time.
V
Right
now,
so
electrifying
gets
every
gets
things
off
fossil
fuels
and
that's
especially
important
for
the
natural
gas
heating
and
like
cooking
and
water
heating.
That
is
sometimes
done,
and
it's
pretty
pretty
common
in
this
region
and
so
the
if
you
install
that
stuff.
Now
it's
like
deep
in
the
house,
there's
pipes
going
through
the
house.
It's
a
really
expensive
part
of
it
boilers.
V
Last
a
long
time,
if
you
install
it
in
2021
or
2022,
it's
going
to
still
be
there
in
2030,
and
it's
not
going
to
be
carbon
neutral
then
so
the
so
electrification
needs
to
really
be
strong,
as
well
as
efficiency,
because,
as
we
I
mean
like
texas,
today
is
a
great
example
there's,
when
temperature
extremes
are
going
to
go
all
over
the
place
with
climate
change
and
if
our
home,
if
we
can't
like
regulate
our
energy
use,
the
grid
is
going
to
go
down,
and
so
efficiency
is
really
key
in
that.
V
And
so
the
only
way
to
do
that
is
to
require
more
points.
At
six
points
you
can
choose
one
or
the
other,
get
like
a
walkability
point
for
free
and
move
on,
but
requiring
requiring
more
points
means
that
the
is
the
most
straightforward
way
to
make
sure
that
this
policy
is
stronger
and
to
actually
put
us
on
the
path
to
carbon
neutrality
by
2030.
V
And
yeah
the
then
the
final
thing
is
the
op
6
or
5
the
one
about
the
fossil
the
custom
energy
improvement.
Fossil
fuel
prerequisites
got
to
be
on
there
if
you're
doing
a
major
renovation
of
a
house.
That's
when
you
need
to
replace
the
natural
gas
boiler.
If
you
don't
replace
it,
then
when
are
you
going
to
replace
it
not
before
2030
and
you
your
building,
won't
be
harder
neutral.
So
yeah,
that's
that's
my
thing.
C
W
Hi,
can
you
hear
me?
My
name
is
ruby
zowell,
I'm
13
and
I'm
with
the
sunrise
movement.
I
go
to
the
eac,
montessori
school
and
I
live
in
the
town
of
ithaca,
I'm
here
to
comment
on
the
ithaca
green
building
policy,
which
I
strongly
believe
needs
to
be
updated
and
strengthened
in
order
to
implement
the
ithaca
green
new
deal.
W
A
battle
cry
of
the
sunrise
movement
is
no
compromises,
no
excuses.
We
chant
these
words
because
time
is
running
out.
We
don't
have
enough
time
to
push
aside
climate
legislation
or
to
make
negotiations
just
like.
We
won't
make
compromises
on
covert
relief
and
climate
and
racial
justice
in
the
house
and
senate.
We
won't
make
compromises
with
the
city
of
ithaca
on
a
green
building
policy
to
achieve
the
goals
set
in
the
ithaca
green
new
deal,
we
need
to
update
and
strengthen
the
ithaca
green
building
policy.
W
The
fight
for
climate
justice
includes
passing
laws,
bills
and
resolutions
that
are
just
inequitable
and
sunrise.
Movement.
Ithaca
is
proposing
one
to
you.
We
have
been
ignored
for
far
too
long
to
deny
us
an
updated
and
strengthen
ithaca.
Green
building
policy
is
to
deny
the
truth.
The
truth
is
that
we
have
less
than
nine
years
before
it
will
be
too
late
to
right
our
wrongs.
The
truth
is
that
we
have
a
long
way
to
go
with
passing
bold
climate
action
in
ithaca.
W
We
can't
wait
any
longer
and
we
will
not
be
ignored.
Passing
a
green
new
deal
does
not
solve
every
climate
problem
for
the
ithaca
green
new
deal
to
be
properly
implemented,
more
climate
resolutions
need
to
be
passed.
The
climate
crisis
is
exacerbated
by
cleveland
19
and
is
fueled
by
every
form
of
injustice.
A
just
and
equitable
ithaca
green
building
policy
needs
to
be
adopted
immediately.
We
cannot
hold
this
off
any
longer.
That
means
eliminating
a
grace
period
for
adoption.
It
shouldn't
be
possible
to
get
building
points
for
constructing
a
building
that
uses
fossil
fuels
either.
W
C
X
Yes,
I
can.
Can
you
hear
me?
Yes,
okay,
good,
to
go
all
right,
hi
everyone,
I'm
sarah
zamanick
director
of
campus
sustainability
at
cornell,
thanks
for
the
chance
to
speak
tonight,
and
my
comments
supplement
what
you
already
heard
from
our
cow.
So
my
cornell
colleagues
and
I
are
really
eager
to
support
you
in
creation
of
an
effective
code
supplement.
We've
collaborated
on
a
letter
instead
of
comments
that
was
submitted
by
rick
burgess,
our
vice
president.
Yesterday.
I
think
I
hope
that
you'll
take
time
to
read
it
in
full.
X
I'll
also
point
out
that
cornell's
climate
action
plan
addresses
our
entire
existing
campus,
so
not
just
new
buildings
and
major
renovations
as
part
of
our
goal
for
carbon
neutrality
for
the
whole
campus
by
2035..
So
to
do
that
we're
advancing
a
set
of
actions
that
make
sense
for
the
whole
campus
system
rather
than
piecemeal
efforts.
X
X
X
The
physics
of
the
grid
just
don't
support
that
nice
egg
restriction,
injecting
power
anywhere
into
the
new
york
iso
manuscript
is
beneficial
and
we
think
it
should
be
credited
on
those
limits
to
the
nice
big
territory.
I
think
many
of
you
have
experienced
create
significant
barriers
to
the
energy
economics
and
then
the
interconnection
challenges
with
our
our
friends
at
nice
egg
30
seconds,
the
community
renewable
energy.
X
Some
criteria
should
be
reworded
to
include
all
of
the
contractual
arrangements
that
are
currently
permitted
in
the
new
york
community
energy
program.
So
we
fully
support
the
inclusion
of
community
energy.
It's
a
critical
element
of
an
overall
equitable
transition
and
any
contextual
party
onto
such
a
project
should
be
supported.
X
I
didn't
hear
my
am
I
out
of
time
joanne
or
do
I
have
you've
got
five
seconds
or
so?
Okay,
I
guess
last
I'll
say
if
a
project
is
part
of
a
system
essentially
managed
campus
or
portfolio,
that's
is
100
renewable
and
the
owner
has
capacity
to
supply
the
new
project
from
the
100
renewable.
I
think
that
that
should
receive
credit
and
not
require
additional
renewable
energy.
Looking
forward
to
the
future,
when
we're
there.
C
C
D
Y
So
you
guys
know
it's
a
little
confusing
that
the
youtube
is
out
of
sync
with
when
I
came
on
board,
so
it's
it's
wide
for
people
jumping
in
so
anyhow
hi.
You
guys
and
thank
you
for
for
having
this
meeting.
I
some
of
these
comments
have
been
fabulous.
I'm
going
to
try
to
not
replicate
what's
been
said,
but
I
want
you
to
know
that
there's
a
bumper
sticker
whose
simple
truth
haunts
me
and
it
says
that
the
climate
is
changing
faster
than
we
are.
Y
I
I
think
I
can't
even
say
things
more
clearly
than
some
of
the
young
people
from
the
sunrise
movement.
We
have
precious
little
time
and
we
really
need
to
accelerate
what
we're
doing.
I'm
thrilled
to
see
the
ways
that
the
city
has
been
upping
their
game.
But
I
can
urge
you
to
continue
to
do
that.
This
policy
was
introduced
in
2017
and
since
then
you
know
back,
then
the
ideas
were
pioneering
and
the
targets
set
a
clear
and
inspiring
path
forward,
but
four
years.
Y
Y
further.
I
ask
you,
as
many
others
have,
that
you
commit
to
no
more
combustion
for
heating,
cooking
or
hot
water
in
new
construction.
I
I
can
tell
you
from
my
work
at
the
state
level,
the
days
of
cheap
gas
are
numbered.
It's
it's!
No,
it's
we're
not
just
not
going
to
see
cheap
gas
happening.
I
I
would
estimate
within
a
year
or
two
years
at
best
there
are
plans
for
carbon
fees
there.
Y
The
utilities
are
already
changing
the
way
that
they
price
the
pipelines
that
go
in
and
and
hookups
to
new
buildings.
The
game
is
changing,
the
utilities
are
being
forced
to
change,
heat
pumps
are
the
future
and-
and
we
really
need
to
move
that
way
now,
you
know
all
you
have
to
do
is
look
to
lansing
to
see
they've
been
under
a
moratorium
since
2015
and
development
has
continued
there
and
has
been
thriving
there
despite
their
gas
moratorium.
Y
Y
Some
others
have
already
talked
about
it,
but
furnaces
put
in
today
have
a
lifespan
of
20
to
35
years
and
it's
impractical
to
think
that
they're
going
to
be
changed
out
in
10
years
to
align
with
the
2030
call
it's
really
time
to
move
away
from
this
bygone
era
and
build
with
heat
pumps
from
the
start.
The
climate
continues
to
change.
The
question
now
is
how
quickly
we
can
make
the
changes
that
are
needed
and
whether
you're
willing
to
do
so.
Y
C
That
is
the
last
speaker.
D
Okay,
is
there
a
motion
to
close
the
public
hearing,
move
that
down.
D
All
right,
so
next
up
is
the
adjustment
to
the
iras
2021
mini
action
plan.
This
is
funding,
that's
going
to
go
to
support
the
acquisition
and
renovation
of
a
house
on
auburn
street,
in
addition
to
nhs
community
housing
trust
for
homeowners.
So
I
see
I
believe,
leslie
ackerman
might
be
here
to
address
this
topic
as
you're
waving
her
hands.
D
We
do
have
a
resolution
in
the
packets
that
would
support
this
funding
and
anissa
obviously
is
here
as
well.
Is
there
a
motion?
Maybe
we
should
just
move
this
resolution,
then
we
can
open
up
for
discussion.
Is
there?
Is
there
a
motion
on
the
resolution?
I
see
laura's
raising
her
hand.
Is
there
a
second.
D
D
All
right,
thank
you,
so
laura's
moved
to
public
hearing
donna
was
that
a
second
did.
I
see
you
raise
it
down
a
second,
so
that's
the
resolution.
All
right
is
there
any
discussion,
and
you
know
I'll
just
say
I
appreciate
all
the
very
detailed
cost
breakdowns
and
the
budget
that
was
provided
in
the
agenda.
It
was
really
excellent.
Just
to
see
all
that
any
questions
or
discussion,
I
see
laura,
has
her
hand
up.
B
Thanks
thanks
jeff,
I'm
very
pleased
to
be
supporting
this
resolution
tonight
and
to
support
the
community
housing
trust
program,
which
seems
to
me.
It
has
seemed
to
me
for
quite
some
time
a
real
win-win
for
the
city.
We
have
a
goal
of
increasing
home
ownership
in
the
city
and
I'm
very
pleased
that
the
housing
trust
in
the
city
allows
us
to
increase
home
ownership
for
low
and
moderate
income
families.
B
The
fact
that
this
house
is
projected
to
be
assessed
at
240
000,
but
the
projected
sale
price
will
be
170
dollars,
is
terrific
and
means
that
a
family,
a
low
to
moderate
income
family
will
benefit
from
being
able
to
be
homeowners
in
the
city
and
that
home
will
remain
affordable
in
perpetuity
thanks
to
the
housing
trust
program.
B
So
this
meets
our
goal
of
expanding
the
supply
of
for
sale
homes
in
the
city,
expanding
our
goal
of
homes
for
low
moderate
income
residents
at
80
percent
ami
or
less,
and
keeps
this
home
in
the
affordable
market
in
perpetuity.
So
I'm
really
pleased
that
we're
moving
this
that
we're
considering
this
tonight.
I
will
say
that
in
the
it's
my
understanding
in
and
leslie
can
comment
on
this.
Of
course,
the
housing
trust
program.
B
There
are
42
homes
in
the
city
of
ithaca
in
the
program,
another
eight
in
the
pipeline
and
as
I
say,
I
view
this
as
a
real
win-win
for
the
city
and
a
win
win
for
low-moderate
income
families
who
wish
to
become
homeowners,
which
is
a
wonderful
goal.
Thank
you.
D
Thanks
thanks,
laura
and
I'll,
just
second
that
and
I'll
say
you
know,
there's
been
a
trend,
and
this
has
happened
in
my
neighborhood,
where
older
houses
have
been
bought
up
and
and
flipped
and
rented
out
by
the
bedroom
or
or
airbnb.
So
I
think
it's
really
it's
great
to
see
that
inhs
is
purchasing
this
building
and
that
it's
going
to
go
to
some
working-class
middle-class
folks,
who'll
be
able
to
live
in
in
in
ithaca,
so
really
appreciate
your
efforts.
D
Is
there?
I
see
cynthia
as
her
hand
up.
J
Oh,
thank
you
yeah.
I
I
have
very
much
made
it
a
a
priority
for
me
for
the
city
to
to
highlight
the
need
for
ownership
opportunities
for
for
low
and
moderate
income
families
in
ithaca.
We
we
have
very
few
opportunities
for
for
people
to
buy
their
own
home
and,
and
one
of
the
reasons
that
that
I
support
this
so
greatly
is
the
tried
and
true
method
for
individuals
to
grow.
Wealth
is
through
home
ownership
through
homeownership.
J
J
J
Their
return
on
that
investment
is
capped
at
two
percent
per
year,
and
what
that
means
is
that
that
individual
takes
on
all
the
risk
and
liability
of
home
ownership,
but
does
not
have
the
ability
to
capture
any
return
on
their
investment,
and
that
is
is
is
an
ill-advised
financial
investment.
I
I
would
not
suggest
to
anyone
that
they
they
take
on
an
instrument
where
their
return
is
capped,
but
their
risk
of
loss
is
unlimited.
J
It
is
a
much
better
financial
decision
for
an
individual
to
make
to
rent
where
you
have
no
return,
but
you
have
no
risk
in
terms
of
the
responsibility
of
of
maintaining
your
residents
so
because
this
house
is
within
the
community
housing
trust,
because
the
return
on
investment
is
capped
at
two
percent
per
year,
because
the
homeowner
would
receive
all
the
responsibility
and
liability
of
maintaining
the
home.
I
just
don't
think
it's
it's
an
advisable
instrument
that
I
would
recommend
to
anyone,
and
I
will
not
be
supporting
this.
F
Would
it
be
appropriate
for
me
to
address
some
of
those
concerns
or
okay?
Thank
you,
everyone
for
your
opinions
and
interest
in
this
program.
Ms
brock,
I
appreciate
your
interest
in
affordable
housing.
I
don't
have
the
same
concerns
about
the
structure
of
the
housing
trust,
because
I
understand
that
it
provides
immense
opportunity.
F
I
think
that
your
statement
of
the
risks
of
home
ownership
are
true
for
anyone
when
you
own
a
home,
it
comes
along
with
risk.
It
does
come
along
with
reward
too.
The
investment
that
cht
homeowners
make
pays
off,
you're,
absolutely
correct
that
it
doesn't
pay
off
at
the
sky's.
The
limit,
which
is
how
real
estate
tends
to
appreciate
in
ithaca
today,
but
they
are
benefiting
from
a
more
modest
appreciation
of
wealth,
along
with
additional
advantages
that
the
cht
conveys
because
of
legislation
that
was
passed
at
the
state
level.
F
F
Now
I
did
some
rough
numbers
earlier
when
I
saw
your
your
email
earlier
that
suggested
that
it
would
be
a
better
move
for
someone
to
make
to
rent
rather
than
to
purchase
a
cht
house.
I
said
all
right.
I
want
to
look
at
this
and
see
what
the
numbers
tell
me.
F
I
don't
have
numbers
that
are
developed
enough
to
share
you
know
and
and
when
we
have
those,
I
will
provide
them
to
anyone
in
on
the
committee
who
would
like
them,
but
essentially
what
I
looked
at
was
comparing
one
of
our
town
homes
that
just
recently
completed
and
is
now
under
contract
to
a
new
homeowner.
That's
at
the
project
at
south
cayuga
street
and
south
titus,
the
four-town
home
building,
and
I
compared
that
with
one
of
the
brand
new
apartments
at
327
seneca
street.
F
F
In
one
situation,
the
and
also
the
the
327
seneca
building
purports
to
be
affordable
to
homeowners,
sorry
to
renters
earning
up
to
eighty
percent
of
area
median,
so
it
compares
exactly
with
the
clientele
we're
serving
in
the
housing
trust
their
rent
for
a
two-bedroom
apartment
is
1327,
I'm
sorry
1373
a
month
and
that's
more
than
34.
F
So
contrast
that
with
our
townhouse
that
the
two-bedroom
unit
at
eighty
percent
we've
calculated-
and
these
are
you-
know-
numbers
based
on
what
the
home
is
actually
selling
for
and
what
the
mortgage
is
going
to
cost
and
what
the
property
taxes
have
been
calculated
at.
The
homeowner
is
going
to
be
paying
less
than
eleven
hundred
dollars
in
total
monthly
housing
expenses.
So
every
month,
they're
saving
about
300
a
month.
Now
they
have
ongoing
maintenance.
F
I
will
point
out
that
this
home,
this
townhome
is
brand
new,
it's
very
efficient
and
it's
built
to
avoid
any
major
system
overhauls
or
major
repairs
in
at
least
15
years.
That's
the
standard,
we're
shooting
for
for
rehabs
as
well,
so
that
will
apply
to
the
auburn
street
home.
F
So
if
we
consider
that
that's
going
to
add
about
twelve
hundred
dollars
a
year
or
a
hundred
dollars
a
month
to
the
homeowner
they're,
going
to
also,
of
course,
at
purchase,
have
to
put
down
a
a
down
payment,
but
they're
also
going
to
receive
mortgage
assistance
in
the
form
of
a
no
interest,
no
payment
mortgage,
that's
going
to
assist
with
closing
costs
and
looking
ahead.
F
If
we
compare
these
two
scenarios
at
the
end
of
a
period
of
call
it
five
years
call
it
10
years
the
homeowner
has
paid
less
on
a
month-to-month
basis
and
the
homeowner
is
walking
away
with
five
figures
of
appreciation
and
it
two
percent,
maybe
isn't
as
much
as
three
or
four
or
five
or
whatever
they.
The
open
market
would
be
appreciating,
but
the
renter's
walking
away
with
nothing
and
they
have
the
risk
of
losing
their
home
if
rents
are
increased.
F
If
the
affordable
rental
is
no
longer
going
to
be
held
in
an
affordable
structure
and
then
the
rent
can
go
up
to
market
rate,
the
landlord
may
choose
to
do
something
else
with
the
property,
so
they
don't
have
the
security,
so
they
have
a
different
kind
of
risk
and
they
have
no
financial
reward
in
the
long
term.
F
So
to
sum
up,
because
I've
taken
a
few
minutes
here,
I
think
that
the
the
housing
trust
isn't
a
perfect
fit
for
everybody.
But
no
solution
is,
I
don't
see
a
lot
of
opportunities,
given
the
cost
of
construction
or
rehabilitation.
F
J
Thank
you.
I
appreciate
that,
and-
and
I
would
like
the
opportunity
to-
and
we
can
talk
offline
some
more
about
this,
because
it
would
be
good
to
have
a
a
face-to-face
conversation
on
that
and
it
definitely
in
the
the
scenarios
you
provided
a
comparison
of
two
brand
new
either
you
know
immediately
built
a
building
or
a
recently
rehab
building,
you
know
is
obviously
it's
the
best
scenario
for
that
that
first
purchaser,
the
purchaser
who
comes
in
10
years
later,
then
buys
that
house
which
no
longer
knew
the
appliances
are
are
older.
J
The
the
the
property
is
aged,
they
still
are
capped
at
two
percent
return
is,
is
not
in
as
ideal
a
situation
as
the
person
who's,
the
first
one
purchasing
the
property
after
it's
been
newly
rehabbed,
but
thank
you
so
much
for
for
your
time
and
again,
I'd
really
like
the
opportunity
to
to
talk
with
you
more.
Thank
you.
D
Thanks
leslie
thanks
for
coming
tonight
and
answering
our
questions
any
other
discussion
all
right,
we
ready
to
vote
all
those
in
favor
all
those
opposed
and
that
carries
401
that
will
go
to
the
march
council
meeting.
D
D
Next
up,
we
have
the
big
item
on
our
agenda.
Thank
you.
Leslie
really
appreciate
your
comment
tonight.
D
The
big
item
on
our
agenda
tonight,
which
is
the
ithaca
energy
code
supplement-
and
I
know
that
I
think
nick
is
here-
am
I
oh
yeah
he's
written
right
there
and-
and
I
know
ian
shapiro
is
also
here.
I
I
know
that
he
was
heavily
involved
in
this,
and
you
know
this
is
obviously
is
a
huge,
big,
complicated
piece
of
legislation.
D
I
think
maybe
it
would
be
best
to
start
out
with
moving
the
resolution,
that's
in
our
packet
and
then
we
could
open
it
up
for
discussion,
and
I
think
the
the
big
question
for
us
tonight
is
whether
we're
going
to
be
ready
to
move
this
on
the
council.
So
with
that
I'll
look
for
a
and
actually
I
believe
that
there's
there's
a
lead
agency
in
there
too.
Isn't
there.
D
C
And
negbeck.
D
Yeah,
so
why
don't
we
move
ahead
with
moving
the
lead
agency?
Can
I
get
a
motion
on
a
lead
agency
that
moved
by
laura
seconded
by
cynthia,
so
this
is
common
council
declaring
itself
lead
agency
to
conduct
environmental
review,
all
those
in
favor
that
carries
unanimously,
and
then
we
have
the
environmental
review.
So
it's
a
negative
declaration
of
environmental
significance.
Is
there
a
motion
on
that
moved
by
steve
seconded
by
cynthia
any
discussion
on
the
environmental
review.
J
J
D
Thanks
good
question,
any
other
questions
or
discussion
on
the
environmental
review:
okay,
all
those
in
favor
and
that
carries
unanimously.
So
then
we
come
to
the
ordinance
itself.
Is
there
a
motion
on
the
resolution.
D
Moved
by
steve-
and
this
is
just
to
open
it
up
for
debate-
moved
by
steve
seconded
by
donna,
okay-
and
I
know
some
of
the
folks
here
have
already
taken
the
time
to
email
nick
with
their
questions
and
concerns
about
the
legislation.
I
think
that's
really
helpful
and
I.
D
Staff
time
to
kind
of
prepare
the
response
I
don't
know,
if
maybe
maybe
the
way
to
do
this
is
is
nick
or
ian.
I
don't
know
if
you
have
anything
to
add
beyond
what
you've
already
sort
of
communicated
via
email.
If
there's
anything
you
kind
of
want
to
say
about
this,
I
know
it's
been
a
really
really
long
process
to
get
here.
Z
I
guess
I'd
love
to
give
just
a
very
brief
update
sort
of
what's
happened
since
last
month,
but
that's
okay,
yeah
great,
so
yeah
as
as
I
think,
you've
figured
out.
A
lot
of
my
time
has
been
spent
dealing
with
comments,
cataloging
them
responding
to
them,
getting
you
the
responses
and
getting
the
responses
to
the
public.
So
at
this
point
I
think
we
received
44
different
sets
of
comments
from
the
public.
Z
Some
of
them
had
up
to
106
signers.
All
the
comments
received
through
today
when
the
comment
period
closes
have
now
posted
to
the
web
and
you
received
them
in
your
email
earlier
today.
I
responded
all
the
comments
that
were
received
through
yesterday
morning,
and
you
also
have
those
there
have
been
some
some
detailed
and
lengthy
comments
submitted.
Since
then,
we
got
11
pages
of
comments
from
cornell
we've
gotten
several
comments
from
community
members
from
ithaca
college,
all
in
the
last
24
hours
or
so
so
have
not
had
a
chance
to
respond
to
those.
Z
Z
The
plan
is
still
to
update
it,
as
described
in
the
document,
so
using
the
existing
language,
but
updating
it
with
guidance
from
the
national
code,
ashrae
189.1,
in
addition
to
using
that
guidance,
because
a
lot
of
the
language,
a
lot
of
the
ideas
for
the
renewable
energy
section
came
from
ashrae
and
the
zero
code.
Those
are
national
codes
and
some
of
the
concepts
are
not
directly
applicable
to
new
york
state's
situation.
Z
I
believe
sarah's
manic
from
cornell
alluded
to
that
in
her
comments
that
every
state's
different
on
renewables
and
so
to
address
that
we'd
like
to
pull
together
some
local
folks
to
give
some
more
guidance
on
the
renewable
energy
section,
and
so
after
updating
it
based
on
the
ashrae
code
and
the
group
of
locals
we'd,
bring
that
updated
section
back
to
you.
Z
Okay
last
thing
I
want
to
mention
is
that
you
know
the
iecs
is
obviously
under
discussion
at
the
town
of
ithaca
as
well.
So
the
codes
and
ordinances
committee
is
dealing
with
that
they
discussed
it
last
week,
they'll
be
discussing
it
again
on
march
10th.
They
have
a
number
of
small
changes
that
they're
proposing.
I
don't
think
those
are
worth
noting
at
this
stage,
but
there
is
one
change
between
major
that
that
I
do
want
to
be
aware
of.
It
was
in
my
cover
memo.
Z
Z
Yeah
the
goal
from
day
one's
been,
you
know,
quote
unquote
one
policy
for
both.
That
being
said,
no
nothing
holds
us
to
passing
the
exact
same
thing,
even
on
a
change
as
big
as
this
we
could
go
for
different
timelines.
I
think
the
biggest
change
I
can
think
of
is
that
developers
then
would
have
as
they
do
now,
some
differences.
If
I'm
building
a
town,
I
have
these
rules
and
I've
been
building
a
city
20
feet
away.
I
have
these
rules,
but
there
are
not
larger
problems
than
that.
So.
D
So
maybe
that's
a
good
place
to
start
with
the
timeline,
because
that
also
ties
into
the
question
of
six
points.
First
12
points
right
because
like
in
2025,
you
know
this
will
be
moving
to
the
12
points.
You
know.
D
D
So
I
guess
maybe
we
could
start
there
and
just
say
like
what.
How
do
we
feel
about
that?
I
mean
personally,
I'm
sympathetic,
I
kind
of
agree
with
the
town.
You
know
I
I'd
like
to
move
move
this
up
if
possible.
D
I
realize
we've
been
working
on
this
for
a
long
time
and
when
we
initially
set
out
in
this
some
some
ideas,
maybe
that
seemed
very
you
know,
progressive
and
kind
of
pushing
the
boundary
back
in
2018,
maybe
seem
less
so
now,
so
realizing
how
much
of
how
urgent
the
fight
against
climate
change
is,
and
I
think
reducing
greenhouse
gas
emissions
for
the
city.
I
would
like
to
speed
that
up.
D
E
I
had
been
curious
about
this
before,
but
I
but
the
britons
were
particularly
articulate
in
making
this
point
clear,
and
that
is
what
is
the
rush
in
moving
towards
100
electricity.
If
the
grid
isn't
clean,
I
mean
I
can't
state
it
any
clearer
than
than
they
did,
but
it's
an
it's
a
natural
question.
Z
Z
They
sort
of
went
with
the
assumption
that
well
for
electrifying
we're
using
electric
resistance
heat
which
which
we're
not
advocating
for
we
do
allow
a
small
percentage
of
electric
resistance
to
heat,
to
be
used
under
the
heat
pump
point
by
using
the
entire
analysis,
except
for
saying,
assuming
that
we're
changing
the
heat
pump
changes
the
picture
substantially,
it's
worth
it
today,
it's
very
very
worth
it
in
terms
of
carbon
reductions
to
switch
to
electric
meaning
electric
water
heating.
Z
I
guess
another
point
I'm
going
to
turn
to
e
in
here
is
that
the
grid
is
getting
cleaner.
It's
not
as
dirty
as
they
mentioned.
We
have
a
upstate.
We
have
a
pretty
substantial
portion
of
our
electricity
produced
from
hydropower.
Z
Z
Every
building
we
build
today
is
going
to
be
around
for
a
long
time,
so
by
the
end
of
its
life
cycle,
most
of
its
life
cycle
will
be
spent
using
clean
energy
cleaner
than
today.
Ian
do
you
have
anything
to
add
about
the
rush
to
electrify.
AA
AA
There
are
very,
very
large
solar
community,
solar,
arrays
being
planned
and
being
built,
and
there
are
hundreds
of
megawatts
of
wind
being
planned.
It
is
happening
fast.
So,
just
echoing
next
point,
a
typical
building
will
be
around
for
at
least
50
years,
if
not
a
hundred
years,
and
most
of
its
life
will
be
with
clean
energy.
So
there
is
urgency
to
to
electrify.
J
J
I'd
like
to
better
understand
what
is
included
in
the
code
or
how
it's
referenced
in
the
code
to
achieve
a
higher
level
of
insulation,
so
that
the
demand
for
energy
itself
will
be
lessened
and
isn't
that
a
significant
part
of
this
conversation.
But
but
I
maybe
I
just
don't
understand
it,
because
I
realize
that
there's
references
to
other
standards
and
other
codes,
and
I
don't
know
how
implementable
there
are
or
where
they
are
with
this.
J
But
it
seems
to
me
a
significant
focus
should
be
on
the
actual
design
of
of
the
structure
in
the
envelope
itself,
so
that
you
are
going
to
be
needing
less
energy
to
to
heat
it
and
cool
it.
And
I'd
really
like
to
learn
more
about
that
and-
and
I'm
missing
it
in
my
reading
of
this
code.
Z
Sure
so
installation
is
not
addressed
through
the
the
point
system.
That's
so
you're
not
missing
that
that
is,
that
is
how
it's
set
up
and
there
is
room
for
it
to
be
for
it
to
be
addressed.
So
I
think
you're
about
to
ask
why
not
so
one
reason
is
one
reason
is
a
big
focus
on
affordability
and
the
payback
for
installation
over
the
the
state
code
levels
is
not
as
good
as
it
is
for
some
other
items.
Z
In
other
words,
it
takes
longer
to
pay
back
increased
insulation
over
some
other
methods,
ian's
going
to
jump
in
in
a
moment
and
tell
me
if
I
get
this
wrong.
You
are
allowed,
though,
to
get
credit
towards
installation
through
either
the
custom
energy
improvement.
Point,
that's
op6.
Z
So
if
you
can
prove
that
your
insulation
levels
are
reducing
by
the
set
level
of
energy,
you
can
get
up
to
two
points
for
that,
as
well
as
in
the
whole
building
path.
Envelope,
improvements
like
increased
insulation
levels
could
be
credited
there
ian
is
that
100
accurate?
What
I
said.
AA
Totally
correct,
so
you
can
get
points
for
installation
and
the
reason
it
hasn't
been
a
focus
is
that
the
state
energy
code,
which
is
based
on
the
international
energy
code,
has,
over
the
years
squeezed
as
much
as
it
could
have
out
of
insulation.
There
is
more
we
can
get,
but
it's
incrementally
smaller
and
smaller
and
smaller
at
a
higher
and
higher
cost.
J
So
am
I
framing
this
correctly
in
the
sense
that,
in
terms
of
insulation
or
or
envelope,
standards
to
build
the
most
energy
efficient
structure
possible,
where
we
are
relying
on
the
state
code
and
not
expecting
its
exceedances
of
the
state
code?
Because
incrementally
it
you
know,
the
state
code
is-
is
strong
enough.
AA
AA
J
Obviously,
if
you
can
make
a
house
that
you
barely
have
to
do
anything
at
all
to
heat
it,
because
it's
so
well
insulated,
then
you
know
whether
you
use
heat
pump
or
other
things
is
not
as
material
because
it
takes
less
energy
to
heat.
The
house,
because
the
house
itself
is
is
built
in
in
a
well
insulated
manner.
J
But
without
that
focus
or
understanding
of
what
you
are
you're
aiming
for
in
terms
of
of
an
insulation,
stat
requirement,
then
we're
you
know
it
seems
that
we're
kind
of
missing
the
boat
a
little
bit
if.
G
X
AA
Energy,
you
could,
you
could
totally
do
what
you're
proposing
through
the
whole
building
energy
path.
You
could
put
a
extremely
well
insulated
building
and
potentially
with
you,
you
know,
with
the
heat
pump,
you
could
potentially
even
I'll
say
this
with
an
asterisk
put
in
electric
resistancy,
but
you
could
do
exactly
what
you
want
to
do
with
a
focus
on
insulation
using
the
whole
building
energy
path.
J
Okay
does
does
it
seem
deserving
of
a
higher
a
point
number,
because
I
don't
does
insulation
as
you
go
from
the
2020
standard
to
the
2025
standard
in
2030
standard.
Does
the
points
that
you
get
for
better
installation
also
go
up,
because
I
see
points
going
up
depending
on
what
type
of
heating
system
you
use,
but
I
don't
see
points
going
up
for
a
well
insulated
structure.
Z
Yeah,
I
also
just
wanted
to
mention
so
you're,
focusing
now
cynthia
on
the
structure
and
the
envelope,
and
so
just
want
to
mention
that
most
of
I
think
four
out
of
five
of
the
affordability
improvements
in
the
easy
path
have
to
do
with
the
way
the
building
is
built,
the
structure
of
it.
So
we
did
credit
other
strategies
for
reducing
the
heat
load
like
right,
reducing
the
amount
of
heat
needed
things
like
which
are
which
are
not
used
as
much
as
we
feel
they
should
be
in
a
state
code.
Z
D
Thank
you
thanks.
So
I
mean
I,
the
question
I
have
is
just
you
know
why:
why
can't
we
move
forward
and
pass
the
2025
standard
now,
because
that's
something
that
came
up
in
a
lot
of
emails?
Is
it
just
that
we
sort
of
said
that
there's
going
to
be
a
transition
and
want
to
be
good
on
our
word,
so
I
am
curious
about
that,
like
what
is
stopping?
What
is
the
downside
from
potentially
just
moving
ahead
and
passing
the
2025
standard?
Now.
Z
You
know
I
mentioned
some
of
this
in
my
response,
which
I
sent
to
you.
Like
you
mentioned
we've
sort
of
building
a
transition
period.
We
can
shorten
that
transition
period
either
to
fewer
years
or
zero
years,
which
is
you
know
immediately
going
to
12
points.
This
is
maybe
just
me,
I'm
personally
a
little
more
comfortable
going
with
what
we
intended.
First
of
all,
to
give
it
sort
of
a
dry
run
and
get
everyone
used
to
the
code.
Z
Z
AA
If
we
were
to
accelerate,
if
we
were
to
adopt
2025
now
we're
basically
going
to
the
equivalent
of
about
70
80
reductions
in
emissions
now,
instead
of
maybe
40
emissions
reductions,
it's
complicated,
I
think
nick
and
I
would
need
to
go
back
and
do
some
redesign,
because
it's
partially
predicated
on
the
grid
being
so
much
cleaner
by
2025.
AA
So
it's
it's
complicated.
If
I'll
let
nick
take
this
over,
but
it
would
be
easier
to
keep
the
existing
proposal
and
accelerate
it.
Z
I'm
sorry
cutting
off
I'll
just
add
into
what
you
was
saying
he
understands
predicated
on
a
cleaner
grid,
so
part
of
that
is
in
2025
or
whenever
we
step
up
to
these
enhanced
requirements.
The
points
for
electrification,
double
and
the
reason
for
that
is
because
there's
there's
a
bigger
impact
because
the
grid
is
cleaner.
Z
So
that's
that's
sort
of
why
I
mean
if
we
double
those
points
today,
it's
a
little
bit
it's
what
I'm
looking
for.
It's.
Z
Say
again
premature,
I
don't
know
premature
it's
just
kind
of
on
a
whim,
we're
saying:
oh,
let's
double
them
now,
when
the
reason
for
dublin
was
them
doubling
them
was
the
great
cleaning
cleaner.
But
I
also
do
want
to
note
that
there
is
a
conflict
here.
The
conflict
is
that
we
started
this
in
2017
and,
like
people
have
noted,
it
was
a
lot
more
groundbreaking
in
2017..
Z
Since
then,
we've
adopted
a
green
new
deal
and
there
is
some
conflict
with
not
requiring
net
zero
buildings
until
2030
and
at
the
same
time
saying
our
whole
community,
including
existing
buildings,
is
going
to
be
carbon
neutral
by
2030,
and
some
folks
made
the
point
that
you
put
in
the
building
today.
It's
not
carbon
neutral.
You
can't
expect
them
to
be
carbon
neutral
in
nine
years,
so
there
is
some
conflict,
but
we
were
trying.
Z
So
I
guess
stick
with
the
original
intent
and
what
we're
sort
of
tasked
with
this
is
a
tough
choice.
I
really
see
both
sides
of
this.
G
D
You
know
if
I'm
hearing
you
correctly
kind
of
sounds
like
you
know.
We
assume,
I
think,
in
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
times
when
we're
thinking
about
electrification
that
it's
going
to
be
clean,
but
since
we're
drawing
it
from
the
grid
and
the
grid
is
partially
dirty.
That's
not
necessarily
true.
So
it
sounds
like
the
risk
and
sort
of
accelerating
this
too
fast.
Is
that
we'll
be
drawing
still
drawing
on
the
dirty
grid
and
using
dirty
energy?
D
So
it
kind
of
seems
like
this
is
a
complicated
dance
between
the
local
government
and
the
state
government,
and
we
all
sort
of
have
to
presume
that
we're
moving
forward
together
with
our
partners
at
the
state
level
and
hopefully
now
also
at
the
federal
level
with
their
new
president.
So
I
thought
laura
did
have
her
hand
up
and
then
cynthia
had
her
hand
up.
B
Yeah
thanks
seth
and
thanks
nick
and
ian,
for
your
very
helpful
comments
in
advance,
certainly
at
tonight's
meeting
I
I
am
interested
in
knowing
more
about
the
possibility
of
moving
the
timeline
up.
B
I
am
hearing
ian
and
nick
saying
that
the
grid
is
getting
cleaner.
It
is
significantly
cleaner,
for
example,
than
it
was
10
years
ago,
and
so
I'm
wondering
if
there
can
be
a
move
up
on
the
timeline,
but
not
to
make
it
immediate.
I
do
have
some
reservation,
although
I
would
love
to
see
it.
Ideally,
I
would
love
to
see
these
changes
immediate,
but
I
wonder
if
the
timeline
could
be
moved
up
rather
than
2025
moved
up
to
23,
for
example.
B
I
think
sarah
earlier
mentioned
art,
house
and
asteri,
and
certainly
some
developers
are
beginning
to
build
in
a
cleaner
energy
fashion,
but
I
do
have
affordability
and
equity
in
mind.
So
I
wonder
if
ian
or
nick
you
would
comment
on
the
possibility
of
moving
the
timeline
up
to
maybe
2023,
and
I
know
that
early
on
in
the
green
building
policy
discussions
which
feel
like
they
were
yesterday.
B
There
certainly
were
comments
and
concerns
about
about
affordability.
Z
Z
I
I
think
that
would
give
us
a
little
time
collectively
as
code
inspectors
as
developers
as
any
anyone
to
get
used
to
it
and
prepare
for
the
change.
I
I
think
the
transparency
is
important.
I
think
it
is
more
feasible.
You
know,
as
ian
mentioned,
things
are
moving
extremely
quickly.
The
conversations
about
electricity
and
banning
natural
gas,
there's
literally
news
every
single
week
on
some
fronts,
so
the
grid
is
getting
cleaner
quickly.
Z
D
D
J
Yeah,
thank
you.
I
appreciate
it
and
then
I
see
graham
has
his
hand
up
too.
I
appreciate
that
and
and
if
I
support
looking
at
either
2023
or
2022,
you
know
giving
adequate
time
for
a
response
time
and,
as
you
said,
sort
of
a
trial
run
of
this
I
have
in
terms
of
I
just
want
to
follow
up
on
on
a
comment
that
ian
I
and
I
had
when
we
talked
on
the
phone.
One
of
the
things
that
he
had
mentioned
in
light
of
affordability
is.
J
There
was
also,
if
I
understand,
if
I'm
representing
you
correctly
in
the
anticipation
that
a
lot
of
the
the
equipment
that
you
were
looking
at
in
terms
of
providing
efficient,
heating
and
cooling,
is
anticipated
to
be
more
affordable
in
the
coming
years
as
the
market.
J
For
this
increases
it's
not
quite
there
yet,
but
it's
anticipated
in
a
couple
years,
it'll
be
more
accessible
and
in
terms
of
that
affordability
function,
not
wanting
to
push
the
the
standards
too
quickly
and
relying
on
this
technology
that
may
not
yet
has
met
the
market
demand
in
terms
of
providing
it
at
an
accessible
price.
Am
I
representing
you
correctly
ian.
AA
The
heating
equipment
today
is
highly
competitive
and
it's
really
it's
dropping
below
the
cost
of
fossil
fuel.
That's
why
we
see
many
developers
already
using
we've
got
a
bit
of
a
challenge
with
commercial
buildings,
we're
expecting
it
to
come
down,
but
that
that
that's
part
of
the
scenario
we're
looking
at.
J
Yeah
right,
so
I
think
that
was
one
of
the
the
factors
in
terms
of
not
wanting
to
push
that
that
acceleration
of
points
so
quickly
and-
and
so
I
just
want
to
touch
on
a
couple
things
that
that
I'm
thinking
about
I
you
know-
I,
I
guess
I'm
I
I
feel
like
commercial
or
or
large-scale
developers
are
going
to
have
an
easier
time
navigating
through
this
process
than
someone
who
say
you
know
wants
to
age
in
place,
maybe
their
their
parent
or
their
child
has
returned
home.
J
They
need
larger
living
space
and
they're
looking
to
add
space
onto
their
home
they're,
not
necessarily
building,
you
know
entirely
new
rooms
or
or
a
standalone
unit,
but
they
they
want
to
make
their
kitchen
and
bedroom
and
whatever
bigger
and
wanting
to
not
have
this
code
be
too
burdensome
on
on
the
that
homeowner
and
one
of
the
thoughts
that
I'd
had-
and
I
had
this
conversation
with
ian-
is:
how
do
we
make
sure
you
know,
because
the
the
way
I
understand
it
now?
J
It
is
the
expectation
that
that
that
had
a
homeowner,
who
might
just
want
to
add
some
feet
onto
the
kitchen
or
a
bedroom
or
a
study,
is
expected
to
basically
update
their
entire
heating
and
cooling
in
order
to
make
sure
that
that
addition
does
not
add
any
energy
demand
onto
the
house,
which
then
turns
it.
You
know,
at
least
in
my
mind-
and
I
don't
know
how
true
this
is
turns
this
into
a
much
more
expensive
process,
and
so
one
of
the
thoughts
I
had
is
you
know:
can
we
either
carve
that
out?
J
So
this
doesn't
apply
to
that?
Or
do
we
make
the
square
footage
required
to
meet
the
threshold
larger,
not
500
feet,
but
maybe
750
feet
in
order
to
to
allow
those
expansions
to
happen
without
adding
the
the
the
cost
or
or
burden
of
of
this
system?
J
So
that
was
one
idea
I
had
the
other
idea
I
had
that
we
can
touch
on
later
is
I
am
very
reluctant
to
remove,
especially
for
this
single
family
or
two
family
homeowner,
I'm
not
so
concerned
with
larger
unit
developments,
but
I
don't
want
to
eliminate
an
option
of
a
new
home
builder
building
a
home
with
a
wood
stove,
as
we
have
seen.
J
It
is
not
unheard
of
that
that
in
our
area,
or
maybe
even
in
texas,
that
you
might
be
without
power
for
weeks
on
end
and
having
that
opportunity
to
have
a
wood
stove
so
that
you
can
remain
in
your
home
and
heat
your
home
not
rely
on
electricity.
J
I
think
having
that
redundancy
and
allowing
that
is,
is
something
to
maintain,
so
I'm
very,
very
reluctant
and
anything
that's
going
to
prohibit
that
from
from
new
construction
and
and
then
additionally,
I
do
want
to
touch
on
on
a
comment
that
was
mentioned
by
vivek
iyer
earlier
is
I
I
do
agree
that
some
of
this
it
does
feel
very,
very
intrusive.
J
You
know
having
regulations
on
the
number
of
light
bulbs
or
the
kinds
of
you
know,
wattage.
You
can
have
in
your
home.
It
goes
into
like
some
very
minute
details
and
requirements
that
it
does.
It
does
feel
excessive
and
to
allow
more
flexibility
for
that.
One
of
our
our
commenters
wrote
in
and
said
you
know
it
might
make
more
sense
to
allow
more
lights,
but
allow
dimmers
so
that
you
don't
need
to
have
all
the
lights
on
rather
than
limiting
the
numbers
of
light
fixtures
that
can
be
installed.
J
You
know,
so
I
I
don't
know
how
we
think
through
this,
I
think,
is
meaningful
because
it
does
feel
very,
very
intrusive.
The
way
it's
currently
done.
D
Z
Okay,
yeah
I'll
do
I'll,
do
them
in
reverse
order,
so
no
I'm
not
I'm
going
to
do
them
in
the
same
order.
So
you
talked
about
additions
so
wanted
to
make
sure
everyone
understands
that.
There's
three
ways
that
an
edition
can
comply
with
the
code.
It
can
comply
just
as
the
addition.
So
just
a
new
space
has
to
meet
the
requirements
of
the
code.
Z
J
J
Z
That
is
correct.
Let
me
just
go
over
the
three,
the
three
and
then
I'm
happy
to
jump
into
that
specific
detail.
The
second
way
is,
you
know,
with
the
existing
building
and
the
addition
together,
you
can
comply
and
the
third
way
is,
if
you
can
show
well
again
together
the
existing
building
and
the
addition.
If
you
can
show
that
the
carbon
emissions
are
fewer
are
less
than
they
were
for
the
original
building,
then
you
can
comply
that
way
and
that's
what
so
the
town
of
ithaca
recently
updated
rather
upgraded.
Z
It's
public
works
facility.
They
made
an
addition
there
I
want
to
say
a
thousand
to
1500
square
feet
and
they
at
the
same
time
upgraded
the
heating
system.
It
was
not
required.
This
is
what
they
wanted
to
do,
and
so,
in
that
case,
they
they
were
saving
more
on
the
heating
system
than
they
were
adding
with
the
addition
and
they
complied.
That
way
so
to
be
clear,
we're
definitely
not
requiring
people
to
change
the
heating
system.
Z
Up
for
an
addition,
one
option
would
be
to
say
put
in
depending
on
the
size
of
addition
put
in
like
a
a
single
air
source
heat
pump.
It
could
be
a
very
cost
effective
way
to
do
that,
depending
on
the
shape
of
the
building
or
the
specifics
ian.
Do
you
want
to
talk
more
about?
So
what
was
the
third
one?
It
is
very.
Z
The
stand
alone,
just
this
to
one
house,
just
the
addition,
together
with
the
new
building,
together
with
the
existing
building,
there's
two
methods
to
do
together
with
the
existing
building,
one
just
by
showing
that
has
fewer
carbon
emissions
than
the
existing
structure
and
two
to
follow
the
easy
path
of
the
whole
building
path,
with
the
entire
building.
J
Z
AA
But
you
could
use
the
existing
heating
system
as
long
as
you
conserved
enough
energy
in
the
main
house,
for
example,
you
could
add
insulation
to
the
main
house:
keep
the
existing
heating
system
as
long
as
you've
reduced
energy
in
the
in
the
existing
main
house,
such
that
you're
offsetting
what
you're,
adding
with
the
new
addition.
So
you
can
use
the
you
can
reuse
the
existing
heating
system.
J
Okay,
so
so,
basically,
what
I'm
hearing
is,
if
you
want
to
put
a
500
foot
addition
on
your
house
in
the
city
one
way
or
another,
you
must
address
the
in
the
heating
of
of
your
entire
house
in
terms
of
either
replacing
your
heating
system
or
addressing
the
insulation
or
or
energy
consumption
of
the
entire
house
to
reduce
the
energy.
So
it's
no
longer,
it
does
add,
cos
I'm
going
to
presume
that
that
this
is
going
to
at
the
cost
of
an
individual
who
wants
to
put
an
addition
on
their
house.
Z
Well,
or
just
adding
heating
for
that
addition,
if
it's
a
fairly
small
addition,
which
I
think
you're
what
you're
insinuating,
it
could
be
viable
even
potentially
to
do
with
electric
resistance
heating,
it's
a
very
small
space
or
with
a
heat
pump
fairly
affordably.
J
D
Z
Real
quickly
on
biomass,
I
support
keeping
it
in
there.
Our
thinking
has
not
changed
since
we
put
it
in
there
there's
a
discussion
of
it
in
the
green
building
policy
report.
I
just
checked
to
clean
cc,
cornell
cooperative
extension
website,
they're
still
promoting
biomass.
Z
I
think
it's
a
keeper,
but
I
know
that
some
folks
in
the
community
have
issue
with
it
and
in
terms
of
feeling
intrusive,
you
made
the
example
with
lighting.
That's
an
easy
one
for
the
lighting.
We
followed
the
state
code,
the
exact
same
methodology
used
by
the
state
energy
code
and
we
sort
of
reduced
the
numbers.
Z
To
so
example,
using
led
lighting,
focusing
more
intentionally
on
how
you
like
the
spaces.
But
it's
we
don't
feel
intrusive.
There's
also
a
really
intentional
choice
in
the
easy
path.
So
you're,
not
you
don't
have
to
affect
lighting,
you
don't
have
to
affect
windows.
We
believe
that
choice
gives
a
lot
of
flexibility
and
it's
not
interesting
but
I'll
leave
it
there.
I
know
you
want
to
get
on.
T
Thanks
and
I
apologize,
I
may
have
missed
this
discussion
and
I
appreciate
ian
and
nick
what
you
said
about
moving
the
the
target
dates
forward
in
terms
of
the
grid.
T
It
makes
a
lot
of
sense
to
me
that
you
have
to
there's
a
trade-off
there
and
I
guess
the
other
comment
that
people
have
made
is:
is
this
idea
that
the
bar
has
been
set
too
low
with
the
six
points,
and
so
I'm
wondering
if
you
can
explain
to
me
what
would
be
the
downside
of
raising
that
sort
of
right
now
and
I
think
one
of
the
things
I'm
concerned
about
is
you
know
I
want
to
understand
if
we
set
these
targets
or
we
have
higher
targets
or
we
accelerate
things,
what
are
the
chances
of
kind
of
missing
those?
T
I
mean
countries
around
the
world
have
set
these
targets,
they've
gone
right,
past
them
and
things
continue.
So
I
think
it's
important
for
us
to
set
reasonable
targets
but
understand
if
we
accelerate
things
or
if
we
have
a
higher
points
requirement.
What
does
that
mean
for
the
achievability
of
of
the
plan.
G
Z
G
Z
Sure
I
mean
we've,
it's
all
interconnected
right.
We
were
talking
about
the
timeline
which
to
me
is
the
same
honestly,
the
same
discussion
as
increasing
points
right
now,
because
folks
are
asking
move
the
timeline
up
by
five
years,
which
is
which
is
increasing
from
six
to
12
points.
We've
discussed
what
it
would
mean
to
add.
You
know
start
with
12
points
or
even
eight
or
ten
points.
Z
Z
Today
you
know
less
so
for
commercial,
even
jumping
up
to
eight
points,
it's
tough
to
say
because
there's
a
lot
of
different
kinds
of
commercial
buildings.
It's
anything,
that's
not
residential.
In
some
cases
it
the
cost
could
be
on
par.
In
some
cases
it
could
increase
it
ian.
AA
My
gosh,
I
think,
you've
you've
covered
it.
Well,
there's
it's
it's
complex
and
another.
Another
thing
we're
wanting
to
be
honest
with
you
about
is
accelerating
things.
12
points
today,
12
points
today
we
might,
we
might
actually
to
make
it
deliver
80
savings.
We
might
need
to
go
even
a
little
higher
and
it
would
require
redesign,
in
other
words
another
month
or
two
or
three,
and
at
this
juncture,
after
so
many
years,
it
feels
like
there's
some
urgency
to
to
try
and
adopt
a
version
of
this.
That
requires
minimum
changes.
AA
It
could
be
a
higher
bar.
I
think
a
major
decision
for
the
city
is
is
the
issue
of
of
natural
gas.
You
know
the
and,
and
that
can
be
decided
independently
from
this,
but
there
there
is
a
strong
movement
to
to
limit
to
limit
fossil
fuels
in
general.
AA
So
I
I
think
that
a
separate
discussion
and
decision
needs
to
be
had
around
that
we've
been
talking
about
it
since
day
one,
but
the
environment
is
just
changing
so
fast,
but
I
I
in
the
middle
of
all
of
this
we
have
to
give
attention
to
the
complexity
of
what's
involved
and
just
jumping
to
12
points
I
think
is
going
to
require
redesign,
that's
going
to
slow
us
down.
D
Hey
thanks
donna.
E
Okay,
so.
E
One
of
the
writers
speculated
that
it
would
be
possible
for
I've
got
three
strands
of
comments,
so
the
first
one
is
this:
one
of
the
writers
was
his
name.
Eric
schwartz
speculated
that
somebody
could
gain
the
triggering
of
the
system
by
somebody
who
intended
to
have
a
major
renovation
would
instead
break
it
into
chunks,
so
that
no
one
chunk
triggered
this
code.
E
So
that's
one
question
so
my
other
question-
and
I
mentioned
this
in
an
email
to
nick
earlier
and-
and
I
have
to
admit-
I
don't
know
if
it's
anything
we
can
legislate,
but
it's
something
that
needs
to
be
addressed,
and
that
is
the
issue
of
personal
behavior
like
and
in.
E
So
there's
there
should
be
some
kind
of
incentive
for
for
people
to
be
a
little
bit
uncomfortable
for
the
for
the
greater
good,
and
I
also
think
it's
better
for
their
soul
and
and-
and
I
realized
talk
about
intrusive-
that
would
be
it
to
be
go
around
regulating
the
people,
the
temperature
people's
homes,
but
but
my
point
is
there
has
to
be
some
accommodation
for
that,
and,
and
similarly
too
also
like
clothes
dryers-
are
another
simple
example.
E
So
some
of
us
were
joking
today
about
the
wooden
clothes
racks
we
have
in
our
house.
So
I
have
a
gas
clothing
dryer,
but
I
hardly
ever
use
it,
and
so
it
seems
like
it
would
be.
So
that
seems
to
me
to
be
better
to
have
a
clothes
dryer,
that
a
gas
clothes
dryer,
a
gas
powered
clothes
dryer
that
you
hardly
ever
use
that's
better
than
having
an
electric
clothes
dryer.
E
E
So
I'm
wondering
how
that's
accommodated
in
in
the
in
the
vision
and
then
my
next
point
is:
we've
got
to
talk
about
the
fact
that
renewable
energy
still
has
a
cost.
E
There's
a
manufacturing
cost
to
making
windmills
there's
an
agricultural
cost
to
having
solar
farms.
My
understanding
is
that
the
manufacture
of
solar
panels
is
quite
dirty,
so
I
don't
think
we
can
be
too
self-righteous
about
using
renewable
energy.
We
have
to
recognize
that
it
too
has
a
cost
and
there
are
trade-offs.
E
E
We
can't
just
keep
using
more
and
more
and
more
energy
thinking
that
it's
going
to
be
clean,
it's
it's
not,
and
so
I
think
that
really
has
to
be
faced
and
recognized
that
we
should
use
less
energy
and
the
energy
that
we
use
should
be
cleaner.
Z
Me
to
respond
yeah,
sure,
okay,
so
again
in
order
you
mentioned
eric
schwartz's
comment:
can
you
game
the
system
by
breaking
down
a
renovation
into
chunks
or
by
doing
one
edition
now,
one
edition
later
totally
get
it?
We
tried
to
address
that.
We
couldn't
find
language
that
was
legal,
because
how
do
you?
How
do
what
are
the
teeth?
How
do
you
enforce
that?
Do
you
enforce
it
by
saying?
Well,
you
would
what
we
tried
to
do
was
say
all
right.
Z
If
you
do
any
combination
of
projects
that
over
you
know
over
two
years,
let's
say
that
in
aggregate
trigger
the
policy,
then
you've
got
to
meet
the
policy,
but
that
means
what
we're
saying
is
you
come
in
for
the
last
building
permit
and
oh
your
your
first
project.
In
addition
to
this
one
trigger
that
that
means
you
have
to
go
back
to
the
first
project
and
redo
it.
We
can't
force
people
to
upgrade
existing
buildings,
so
we
couldn't
find
a
legal
way.
Z
Our
code
inspectors
worked
with
us
to
try
and
find
language
that
that
worked,
but
we
can't
we
couldn't
find
a
way
around
it.
So,
yes,
I
think
the
answer
is
yes,
there
could
be
a
loophole
there
if
someone
really
wanted
to
find
out
and
we
couldn't
find
a
way
to
address
it,
but
would
love
to
so
that's
my
response.
For
that
one.
Z
Z
So
fine,
you
don't
install
a
dryer,
but
how
can
we
stop
someone
from
installing
a
dryer
after
the
fact,
or
you
know,
blinds-
are
not
blind
sort
of
a
detail
added
that
they're
not
going
to
be
in
the
building
plans.
Necessarily,
we
can't
keep
track
of
what
their
thermostat's
going
to
be.
I
don't
I
don't
see
what
I'm
trying
to
say.
I
don't
see
how
to
regulate
that,
although
I
totally
agree
that
we
need
to
take
personal
responsibility
and
do
personal
behavior
makes
a
big
difference.
AA
E
Z
Okay,
I
made
a
note
of
that
and
then
to
address
your
third
point.
Z
So
we
really
want
people
to
do
es
renewables,
but
also,
first
of
all,
reduce
their
heating
mode,
improve
the
efficiency
efficiency
of
their
building.
So
that's
how
we
address
it
by
by
limiting
the
number
of
points
you
can
get
from
renewables,
I
suppose
we
could
discuss.
If
you
think
it's
not
strong
enough,
we
could
limit
the
renewables
points
even
more.
I
think
it'd
be
a
conversation
to
be
had
about
the
implications
of
that,
but
I
totally
appreciate
your
point.
D
Been
involved
with
that
working
group
as
well
like
if
we
were
to
move
forward
with
that
as
a
city
or
this
conglomeration
of
municipalities,
I
mean,
would
that
help
with
the
whole
question
of
the
timeline,
because
you
know
terry
was
giving
these
examples
of
of
cities
in
new
york
that
have
gone.
You
know
100
renewable
would
we
feel
more
comfortable
kind
of
moving
forward
with
an
accelerated
timeline
if
we
also
were
kind
of
moving
forward
with
community
choice,
aggregation.
Z
Yeah
I
was,
I
was
actually
curious
about
that
too.
In
my
understanding,
I
I
wonder
if
terry
still
watching
in
my
understanding
cca
only
applies
to
smaller
meters,
so
non-demand
meters,
primarily
so
homes
and
small
businesses.
Z
I
think,
possibly
in
those
cases,
if
it
was
structured
right
because
then
you
start
getting
the
questions
of
proving
that
you're
using
renewable
energy,
which
would
be
done
through
renewable
energy
credits.
But
let's
say
we
can
figure
all
that
out
and
structure
it
so
that
the
homeowner,
let's
say
receives
renewable
energy
credits,
then
yeah.
Z
I
think
that
a
cca
program
could
bring,
could
do
what
you're
asking
it
would
it
would
give
them
some
free
points,
essentially
because
they'd
already
be
getting
renewable
energy,
probably
at
a
cheaper
cost,
without
a
lot
of
hassle,
which
would
be
huge.
I
don't
know
if
it
solves
the
issue
for
a
larger
user
and
at
the
same
time
I
think
larger
users
have
more
wherewithal
to
put
some
resources
towards
exploring.
How
do
you
buy
renewable
energy
credits?
How
do
I
deal
with
a
power
purchase
agreement
for
a
large
solar
farm?
D
E
Yeah,
I'm
not
sure
I'm
in
favor
of
the
accelerated
timeline
or
the
increasing
points
for
many
of
the
things
that
nick
said
and
also
my
concern
about
the
fact
that
the
grid
is
not
clean.
E
D
It
sounds
like
there's
not
we're
not.
It
doesn't
sound
like
the
support
for
going
to
the
12
points
right
away
or
2025
right
away,
but
it
sounds
like
at
least
at
the
level
of
exploring
this,
maybe
looking
at
a
little
further
kind
of
along
the
lines
of
what
the
town
is.
Also
discussing
is
the
support
for
looking
at
a
more
modest
acceleration.
B
Yeah,
I
I
would
just
agree
with
what
you
just
said
when
ian
comments
that
the
grid
has
become
increasingly
cleaner
over
the
last
10
years.
B
That's
why
I
suggest
going
along
with
a
modified,
increased
timeline
and
rather
than
the
changes
immediate,
looking
at
2023
looking
at
two
years
from
now.
That
would
give
more
time
to
study
this
more
time
for
the
grid
to
become
even
cleaner.
So
I
mean
I
would
rely
on
ian
and
nick
to
give
us
some
guidelines
on
acceleration
of
the
clean
direction
of
the
grid
over
the
next
couple
of
years,
rather
than
waiting
until
2025.
J
Speaking
of
clean
energy
sources,
both
in
the
residential
and
commercial
you're
able
to
get
under-
and
I
understand
that
you
were
saying
that
you
were
still
going
to
make
progress
on
on
rv1.
J
So
this
is
up
to
three
points
for
on-site
or
off-site
renewable
electric
systems
or
and-
and
so
definitely
I'd
like
to
learn
more
about
how
one
would
guarantee
that
for
the
next
20
30
years
that
the
energy
source
for
that
that
project,
if
it's
off-site,
if
it
would,
if
there's
a
guarantee
that
it's
a
renewable
source
like
how
do
you
build
that
in
and
ensure
that
that
there
is
that
commitment
for
the
next
20
or
30
years?
J
Definitely
learning
more
wanting
to
learn
more
about.
That
would
be
important
before
we
bring
this
around.
Z
Z
Z
So,
for
example,
you
know
the
city
for
a
good
number
of
years
was
trying
to
sign
a
power
purchase
agreement
which
would
have
lasted
15
to
20
years.
That's
fairly
common
to
sign
contracts
for
that
long,
at
least
for
a
large
term,
long-term,
rather
solar,
ray
so
long-term
contract.
Z
We
ask
that
there's
reporting
done,
that
the
energy
be
allocated
from
whatever
the
renewable
energy
source
is
that
it's
allocated
to
the
specific
building
and
that
there's
records
kept
of
that
energy,
being
you
know,
diverted
not
diverted
by
electron
but
but
being
allocated
toward
that
building
and
that
there's
records
kept
on
that
and
then
there's
also
the
renewable
energy
credits,
so
if
they
were
avoiding
wrecks,
avoid
double
counting
of
renewable
electricity.
Z
Z
Z
We're
in
discussion
with
the
code
officers
now
you
know
for
at
least
certain
types
of
buildings
they
joanne.
I
may
lean
on
you
here
in
a
minute
for
at
least
for
certain
types
of
buildings
for
the
certificate
of
compliance.
You
know
there's
a
process
in
place
for
inspecting
existing
buildings.
So
the
question
is
open.
Now
we're
having
discussion
about.
Could
we
potentially
work
some
reporting
into
that
process
joe?
I
do
have
any
more
to
add
on
that
topic
of
of
reporting
and
potentially
doing
it
under
the
existing
process.
M
C
Sorry,
no
we've
we've
talked
about
that
and
we've
talked
about
how
we
can
incorporate
sort
of
that
follow-up
or
that
administration
or
that
commitment
in
the
processes
that
we
already
have
in
place.
And-
and
you
know
we
have
various
schedules
for
different
types
of
buildings
and
and
that's
on
a
schedule
every
year,
every
three
years,
every
five
years,
and
that
would
be
one
way
that
we
could
you
know
continue
to
monitor.
C
I'm
not
sure
what
the
clawback
would
be
if,
if
they
weren't
meeting
those
obligations
other
than
we
have
a
system
in
place
right
now,
if
you
don't
have
a
a
current
certificate
of
compliance,
if
you
have
a
rental
property,
for
instance,
then
you
get
there
are
fines
associated
with
that,
so
it
would
probably
be
something
like
a
fine
basis.
C
If
you
had
committed
to
doing
a
certain
thing,
then
you
stopped
and
when
you
got
an
inspection
it
was
discovered.
Then
you
may
remain
have
a
fine
for
that
until
compliance
is
reached,
I
mean
we
have
this.
We
have
sort
of
a
process
in
place
now.
This
would
be
adding
to
that.
D
I
had
just
a
kind
of
general
question
about
well,
actually
you
touched
on
joining
the
compliance
and
also
just
like
education
around
this.
I
guess
the
first
is
the
compliance
you
know
when
I
was
looking
through.
I
saw
that
there
was
that
lengthy
process
and
I'm
just
really
making
sure
that
we
are
anticipating
any
costs
that
are
going
to
come
from
this
or
burdens
on
staff.
Then
that
could
be
especially
if
they
could
be
potentially
passed
on
to
residents.
D
I
think,
is
a
real
concern
that
I
have
and
just
making
sure
that
that
cost
analysis
has
been
done
and
then
the
second
issue
is
just
the
overall
education
about
this.
It's
so
complicated
I
mean
we
all
have
been
trying
to
wrap
our
heads
around
it,
and
I
mean
the.
W
D
So
this
isn't
to
say
that
I'm
I'm
asking
us
to
do
anything
right
now,
but
just
to
be
aware
of
this,
that
there
really
has
to
be
some
significant
education
and
outreach
about
this,
because
it's
it's
really
complicated
and
I
think,
especially
as
it
does
start
to
affect
people's
lives
and
they're
they're
being
required
to
make
changes
to
things
that
they've
grown
used
to
it.
D
You
know,
I
think
it's
really
critical,
that
we
have
that
education
and
outreach
in
place
so
that
this
doesn't
come
as
a
total
shock
to
people
who
are
used
to
a
certain
way
of
living
and
suddenly
find
out
that
they
have
to
have
to
change
something.
C
Yeah-
and
I
think
that
will
become
more
obvious
when
we
do
do
the
existing
buildings
right
now,
for
the
new
building
for
that
which
this
policy
applies
to
many
of
the
architects
and
the
builders
and
the
people
that
we
work
with
on
a
regular
basis
are
very
aware
of
this,
and
are
you
know
they
understand
where
we're
going
with
this?
They
understand
the
need
for
it
and
they
understand
how
to
comply.
I
think
it's
going
to
be
a
critical
issue.
Once
we
get
down
to
the
homeowners
and
existing
buildings,
so
yeah.
D
D
It
sounds
like
the
town
is
taking
an
extra
month
to
discuss
this
at
the
committee
level,
I
mean
I
I'd,
be
okay
with
sort
of
waiting
and
sort
of
syncing
this
with
the
towns
timeline,
but
I'd
be
interested
in
here.
How
people
feel,
if
they're,
if
they're,
ready
to
move
this
on
or
do
do,
we
need
a
little
bit
more
time.
J
I
mean
there
was
quite
a
few.
You
know
lengthy
comments
that
came
in
just
recently,
but
from
the
two
universities
there's
pieces
that
are
not
completed
yet
in
terms
of
rei.
We
were
just
or
are
we
one
that
we
just
discussed?
J
E
I
think
common
council
needs
plenty
of
time.
My
concern
is
that
if,
if
committee
waits
another
month,
then
the
people
who
haven't
then
the
other
five
people
will
have
to
hear
the
ask
the
same
questions
and
hear
the
same
thing
all
over
again.
So
I
would
be
happy
having
a
special
meeting
of
common
council
to
give
us
another
month.
D
D
I
don't
know
if
dan
dan
cogan
is
still
watching.
I
see
he's
texting
me
earlier,
but
I
think
that's
a
really
good
suggestion
and
I
would
definitely
support
doing
that
because
you're
right
I
mean
we
had
graham
here
tonight,
but.
A
B
I
I
agree
completely
with
donna's
suggestion,
and
you
know
I
am
concerned
with,
as
cynthia
said,
having
the
time
to
digest
everything
for
our
committee.
But
I
think
this
is
an
issue
that
we
want
to
move
forward.
We
don't
want
to
wait
much
longer
and
I
think
the
having
a
committee
of
the
whole
is
a
great
suggestion.
D
D
It
out
we'd
have,
I
guess,
we'd
have
to
like
organize
it
tomorrow,
probably
right.
Z
Think
that
may
be
right.
I
I
actually
wanted
to
know
how
you
wanted
me
to
approach
that.
Do
you
want
written?
Do
you
want
written
replies
to
all
the
comments
that
came
in,
as
I
did
for
the
first
half
the
comments,
or
does
this
and
the
future
conversations
in
person?
Does
that
act
as
a
surrogate
for
some?
How
would
you
like
me
to
approach
that.
C
Because
remember
he's
going
to
have
to
also
work
on
those
that
renewable
section-
and
so
you
know
we
talked
about
this
earlier
today,
where,
where
should
he
put
his
energy?
And
it
takes
a
lot
of
time.
He
spent
so
much
time
by
responding
to
the
all
of
the
comments
and
and
did
a
great
job,
but
it
just
takes
a
lot
of
time.
E
I
would
say
that
if
there
are
some
comments
that
are
new
or
different
or
remarkable
or
or
are
forcing
to
reflect
anyway,
make
sure
you
have
an
answer
to
them,
but
otherwise
focus
on
writing
the
renewable
section
right,
because
otherwise,
it'll
just
keep
dragging
out.
We
won't
have
anything
to
vote
on.
G
D
B
Just
thinking
february
I
I
was
forgetting
that
february
is
such
a
short
month
and
march
is
such
a
long
month.
Yeah.
J
And
the
the
the
comments
from
cornell
are
are
quite
detailed
and
we,
you
know
we
haven't
even
talked
about
the
impacts
of
this
on
commercial
properties,
and
you
know
the
questions
that
have
been
raised
with
regards
to
process
energy,
vent
systems
and
and
so
on,
which
I
think
are
are
very
you
know
worthy
of
more
discussion.
J
We
we've
really
just
been
talking
about
residential,
because
I
think
it's
probably
what
we're
the
most
familiar
with,
but
I
I
recognize
that
this
is
going
to
have
a
sizable
impact
on
the
the
two
educational
institutions
and
we
should
take
some
time
to
look
at
the
comments
that
they've
presented
and
I
have
I
just
I've
only
glanced
them
and
I
don't.
I
haven't-
had
a
chance
to
look
at
them.
Yet.
C
E
Ahead
daniel
so
under
the
original
suggestion
that
we
do
this
again
in
planning
in
march,
and
it
would
have
gone
to
council
in
april,
it.
E
So
if
we
so
either,
I
think
we
still
aim
to
go
to
council
in
april,
but
we
have.
We
still
have
a
committee
of
the
whole
other
we
can.
All
10
of
us
can
focus
on
this.
In
other
words,
I
don't
see
the
point
in
having
another
focus
committee.
Meeting
right
right
right
instead
have
a
committee
of
the
whole
meeting
between
now
and
the
april
council
meeting.
Yes,.
C
D
C
Yeah,
I
don't
think
it's
that
big
right
now,
but
of
course
you
know
that
how
it
can
grow
as
the
weeks
go
on
so
but
so
far
we
don't
have
any
major
things.
So.
Z
It's
probably
what
you
are
expecting
as
a
as
a
body
if
you're
expecting
a
totally
finished
document,
meaning
that
we've
already
addressed
cornell's
comments
and
finished
renewable
energy
section.
I
don't
see
that
happening
next
week
by
any
means.
At
the
same
time,
I
think
we
have
enough
information
in
here
to
discuss
all
the
different
facets.
Z
The
intent
of
the
renewable
energy
section
is
not
going
to
change
dramatically,
you
know,
so
I
think
we
can
have
a
healthy
discussion
which,
if
I
understand
you
correctly,
donna
that's
what
you're
looking
for
is
just
to
engage
more
of
counsel
in
this
discussion
as
we
move
forward.
If
that's
the
case,
we
and
you're
comfortable,
let's
say
doing
it
with
the
documents
we
have
in
front
of
us
today.
Z
Z
D
G
C
G
D
Okay,
I
I
had
one
last
comment
that
I
wanted
to
make
about,
because
I
wanted
to
address
hector's
comment
about
the
transportation,
because
this
also
ties
in
with
a
lot
of
the
sunrise
sunrise,
especially
a
lot
of
folks
that
had
emailed
us
and
said
that
we
should
do
away
with
the
like
the
walkability
point
and
hector
kind
of,
took
the
opposite
tact
and
said
we
should
actually
strengthen
it,
and
I
was
I
was
sympathetic
to
that,
because
I
was
actually
kind
of
surprised
that
there
wasn't
more
about
like
biking
and
walking
in
here
and,
like
his
point,
was
that
there
should
be
an
overall
sort
of
transportation.
D
Multimodal
point.
I
thought
that
was
a
good
idea.
He
had
some
suggestions
about
what
could
be
worked
into
it
because
I
don't
agree
with
getting
rid
of
the
walkability
point.
I
think
that's
really
really
critical,
so
I
think
you
know
when
you
have
a
more
walkable
neighborhood,
it's
going
to
be
a
more
sustainable
neighborhood,
because
you're
giving
up
greenhouse
gas
emissions
and
transportation.
So
I
I
liked
the
direction
he
was
moving
in.
D
B
I
meant
to
I
I
would
agree
with
that
completely.
I
meant
to
raise
that
also.
I,
I
think
you
know
we
we
do
not
have
as
best
I
can
recall
information
on
covered,
secured
bike,
racks
bike
parking
car
share
access.
Looking
at
transit
stops.
I
would
completely
keep
in
the
walkability
point.
You
know
just
recently
this
this
year
or
the
past
couple
of
years,
we've
seen
extensions
on
sidewalks
and,
as
those
are
improved,
that
increases
people's
willingness
and
interest
in
in
walkability
if
they're
physically
able-
and
I
think,
for
the
town.
B
I
remember
this
coming
up
when
we
were
having
discussions
early
on
and
wanting
to
see
encouragement
of
nodal
development,
perhaps
in
the
town,
where
there's
real
emphasis
on
walkability,
and
so
this
is
something
that
I
think,
town
and
city.
We
should
keep
walkability
in
the
plan.
Walkability.
D
That's
a
thumbs
up,
I
see
cynthia
okay,
so
is
there
any
further
discussion
on
this,
or
are
we
good
for
breaking
on
this
and
reconvening
next
month,
seeing
some
nods
and.
D
I
think
ian
jumped
off,
but
nick.
I
really
want
to
thank
you
for
all
of
your
work
on
this.
I
think
it's
it's
an
incredible
effort
and
the
fact
that
you've
been
able
to
synthesize
all
this
incredibly
complex
information,
and
you
know
that
email
you
provided
earlier,
where
you
like,
went
through
all
the
comments
and
you
it
was
so
clear
and
just
very
it's
been
really
really
helpful
to
have
you
on
this
and
kind
of
been.
You
know,
triaging.
W
B
G
C
Like
to
also
send
some
kudos
to
ian
because
ian's
contract
for
this
was
over
long
ago,
it
was
a
very
small
contract
and
he
has
continued
to
stick
with
this.
Advise
us
come
to
meetings
and
I
think
that
shows
a
level
of
commitment.
We
don't
often
see
from
other
consultants.
So
I
want.
C
Z
Yeah
we've
been,
we've
been
doing
sort
of
regular
half
hour
here
and
there
you
almost
weekly
one
year
at
the
time
pro
bono,
it's
pretty
incredible
yeah!
That's
awesome!.
Z
D
Thanks
and
I
think
that's
the
last
item
on
the
agenda
minutes-
oh
the
minutes.
Yes,
is
there
a
motion
on
the
minutes,
moved
by
donna,
sorry,
second
seconded
by
cynthia,
all
in
favor
of
passing
the
minutes
and
that
carries
unanimously
and
motion
to
adjourn
moved
by
laura
seconded
by
donna
all
in
favor?
Okay,
all
right!
Thank
you
all
right.