►
From YouTube: Collective Bargaining Meeting, 09/15/2022
Description
Collective Bargaining Meeting, 09/15/2022
A
B
C
We're
on
the
record
for
the
Open
Session
we're
opening
it
today,
I
believe
the
fire
Union
is
waiting
for
the
president.
Carlos
osano
he's
just
running
a
little
bit
late
today,
so,
but
we
decided
to
go
ahead
and
move
forward
with
the
initial
part
of
this
session.
What
we
are
doing
is
we
are
passing
around
the
sign-in
sheets
for
today,
Thursday
September,
15,
2022
and.
C
While
the
sign-in
sheets
are
going
around
from
the
city's
perspective,
I
just
wanted
to
let
you
know
what
today
looks
like
and
what
the
next
bargaining
session
is
going
to
look
like
one
of
the
issues
from
the
city
side
is
we
have
a
lot
of
high
management
people
here
that
are.
We
have
the
interim
budget
director.
We
have
the
deputy
city
manager
serving
as
the
interim
city
manager.
C
We
have
the
director
of
Human
Resources,
we
have
the
director
of
I.T
and
we
also
have
the
first
assistant
City
attorney,
so
we
have.
This
is
extremely
important
to
the
city
and
to
us,
and
so
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
have
all
the
proper
people
here
to
get
all
the
questions
answered
as
quickly
as
possible.
In
addition
to
that,
you
know
they
also
have
a
lot
of
other
duties
and
obligations
and
other
issues
that
are,
as
the
city
continues
to
operate
day
by
day.
C
C
C
So
we
had
been
working
with
every
gap
of
you
know
every
opportunity
that
we
can
to
get
together
and
get
this
stuff
done,
and
we
are
prepared
today
to
present
some
information
that
was
requested
and
some
counter
proposals,
and
what
we
asked
is
that
we
wanted
to
hear
from
you
what
you
would
what
we,
what
you
expect
to
discuss
at
the
table
today,
because
the
city
really
we're
working
on
continued
counter
proposals.
We
have
some
to
present
this
morning.
C
We
want
to
make
sure
that
we
get
you
the
information,
as
we
discussed
the
last
time
around
and
I
believe
that
we
have.
We
can
go
through
that
through
that,
before
we
break
for
caucus,
but
I'm
don't
from
the
city
Side.
A
lot
of
the
work
has
to
had
a
lot
of
the
big
work
to
move.
This
forward
has
to
happen
behind
the
scenes
and
so
for
today.
I
think
that
we,
our
presentation
this
morning,
will
be
the
only
public
session
that
we
will.
E
I
guess,
as
far
as
the
union,
we
have
some
counters
in
mind
as
well,
mostly
I,
guess
we
were
waiting
for
the
information
we
requested
last
last
session
and
we're
hoping
to
get
some
of
the
bigger
ticket
items
the
monetary
ones
worked
on
today.
That
way,
we
can,
you
know,
make
the
most
out
of
use
out
of
this
meeting
and
hopefully,
by
next
meeting,
have
everything
figured
out
that
way
we
can
move
forward
and
try
to
finish
sure
and.
C
C
So
we
may
have
to
file
an
extension
if
we
need
to
meet
that
that
week,
to
kind
of
solidify
everything
and
I
think
we
should,
because
that's
right
before
the
October
October
one,
but
we're
going
to
continue
to
work
on
this
from
the
monetary
side.
The
economic
issues
we
still
are
waiting
on
a
counter
proposal
from
the
ad
pays
from
the
unions
and
I
think
for
us
to
be
able
to
evaluate
our
the
economic
issues.
C
We
will
need
that
counter
proposal
before
we
can
move
forward
on
the
rest,
because,
as
you
know,
the
the
money
that
the
city
has
is
limited
and
we're
trying
to
find
the
the
best
use
and
the
most
value
for
the
firefighters
in
trying
to
figure
out.
How
are
we
going
to
make
this
work
and
we've
already
put
some
new
some
significant
new
money
on
the
table,
and
we
need
to
see
where
you're
coming
from,
so
that
we
can
work
work
within
that
and
work
within
the
parameters
that
our
budget
provides.
C
E
C
G
E
Results
of
that
effect,
like
we
said
our
pension
and
then
possible
counter
on
our
insurance
article.
They
they
affect
I,
guess
the
ability
to
counter
on
that.
So
we'd
like
to
iron
out
those
details
first,
hopefully
to
try
to
address
our
insurance
concerns
and
our
epic
concerns
everything
else
more
accurately.
I
A
E
From
the
insurance,
that's
the
big
issue,
I
think
what
we
needed
just
like
I
said.
We
want
to
accurately
project
what
our
firefighters
are
going
to
make
to
know
how
much
they're
willing
to
contribute
towards
that
fund,
and
obviously
we
know
the
retirees
how
much
they're
going
to
make,
but
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we
can
present
the
most
accurate
information
to
our
members
to
see
what
they're
comfortable
with
okay,
okay,
going
forward.
Basically,
okay,.
C
C
But
I
will
do
the
same
and
I
I
already
know
which
ones
I
have
sent
you
which
ones
I
haven't
so
I'll,
just
send
you
the
ones
that
send
you
the
ones
that
I
know
that
I
haven't
sent
and
and
then
I'll
ask
you
for
the
ones
the
only
ones
I've
received
were
from
Carlos
losanos
email
on
the
14th
and
I.
Think
I
got
a
couple
on
the
13th,
but
I
want
to
make
sure
I
have
a
full.
E
C
The
request
is,
it
goes
back
three
years
of
the
expenses
and
it
can
be
found
and
I'll
send
you
the
link.
It
can
be
found
online
in
the
City
of
Laredo
website
under
the
budget
department
and
have
the
link
it's
w.
It's
not
the
in
the
budget
index
and
what
I'll
do
is
I'll
just
forward
you,
the
email
that
has
the
link
that
you
can
click
on
that'll.
Take
you
to
that.
C
Okay,
with
regard
to
the
breakdown
of
overtime
ad
pays,
the
city
will
be
providing
that
we're
hope,
we'll
see
if
I'll
give
you
an
update
as
to
how
quickly
we
can
get
that
to
you.
Okay,
but
I,
know
that's
being
worked
on
the
with
regard
to
the
overtime
I.
Guess
you
were
asking
for
the
different
categories
of
overtime
right
at.
C
A
C
C
H
C
C
J
K
C
K
J
C
C
C
J
C
C
H
C
C
H
C
This
amends
the
City
of
Laredo
proposal,
made
July
28,
2022,
1
pm,
and
the
reason
it's
amended
is
because
we
had
some
discussions
on
the
table
as
to
the
intent
of
what
this
was,
and
rather
than
wait
for
you
to
do
a
counter
proposal.
We
listened
to
what
you
said,
and
so
we
we
we're
proposing
some
new
language
to
just
identify
or
address
the
issue
that
that
that
we
saw
in
this
particular
article.
C
It
was
that
it
there
wasn't
an
issue
per
se
other
than
in
the
language
needed
to
be
clarified.
It
was
very
Broad
and
if
somebody
who
was
not
involved
in
the
city
in
the
fire
department
or
the
city
negotiations
or
somebody
looked
at
this
contract
10
years
from
now,
it
would
be
unclear
on
4.3
what
intergovernmental
contracts
would
be
are
affected,
and
we
heard
the
foreign
Union
in
that.
C
You
know
the
services
provided
by
the
Laredo
fire
department
or
vast
and
many
right,
and
so
what
we
did
was
rather
than
just
saying
you
know
any
governmental
contracts
to
provide
fire
or
Emergency
Medical
Services.
The
intent
is
that
the
one
Association
representative
would
be
able
to
Voice
issues
with
regard
to
intergovernmental
contracts
that
involve
services
from
the
Laredo
fire
department.
That
would
be
the
mean,
the
employees
and
the
fire
fighters
who
were
affected.
C
Association
has
a
representative
that
can
provide
opinions
and
Voice
issues
and
that's
the
clarification
to
the
city's
designation
designated
negotiating
representative
as
an
advisory
capacity.
Only
so
that's
basically
what
it
is
we're
amending
it.
We
heard
what
the
concerns
that
you
had
and
we
agree,
and
so
that's
why
we're
proposing
that
and
and
if
you
would
take
a
look
at
that
and
if
you
have
any
questions
on
it,
let
me
know
otherwise
we
propose
that
if
you
agree
that
we
can
possibly
tentatively
agree
to
this
article
today.
E
J
J
C
You
know
because
the
firefighter
is
going
to
be
acting
within
the
course
and
scope
of
their
employment
and
under
their
duties
they
would
naturally
be
covered
by
number
one.
The
line
of
duty,
that's
provided
by
143,
as
well
as
whatever
the
city
does
cover
with
regard
to
line
of
duty,
injuries
or
anything
that
happens.
I
J
Have
a
County
Web
there's
a
process
to
follow
in
which
we're
responding
within
our
scope
if,
as
a
supervisor,
I
decide
to
roll
out
without
the
city,
manager's
approval
or
the
signature
given,
Direction
are
recovered
as
far
as
the
dispatcher
sends
us
out,
because
a
lot
of
times
in
the
fire
department
will
arrive,
we're
dispatched
we're
linked
to
the
cardiac
arrest.
It
was.
G
G
C
Processary
language
that
well
and
one
thing
that
on
the
fire
on
the
workers,
comp
administrator
side
on
the
workers,
comp
administrative
side,
each
event
is
unique
in
of
its
own
and
has
its
own
facts
and
circumstances.
So,
even
though
it
may
be
claimed
to
be
an
injury
on
the
job,
we
may
that
investigation
has
to
be
done
by
the
third
party
administrator
correct.
So
we
can't
guarantee
that,
just
because
somebody
files,
a
workers,
comp
claim
on
a
on
an
issue
or
an
injury
that
is
automatically
going
to
be
approved.
A
C
The
ability
for
the
union
to
have
a
representative
to
voice
opinions,
concerns
and
suggestions
on
what
needs
to
be
in
the
intergovernmental
contract,
so
that
particular
issue
may
be
a
separate
issue
and
it's
Unique
on
its
own
again.
I,
don't
have
the
details
of
it
and
we
may
need
to
if
there's
an
issue
and
something
like
that
has
happened
where
somebody
was
not
allowed
to
even
file
a
claim.
You
know
I
believe
that
they're
they're
all
going
to
be
able
to
file
a
claim
for
workers,
comp
and.
C
I
C
Outside
the
scope
of
this
particular
article
in
the
collective
bargaining
agreement
in
that
here,
the
article
4
is
only
talking
about
the
recognition
of
the
negotiating
authorities
and
giving
the
Union
an
opportunity
to
say
hey.
We
have
these
issues.
This
is
what
happened
last
time
and
we
need
to
fix
it
or
you
know
hey.
This
is
a
suggestion
to
make
this
intergovernmental
agreement
a
little
bit
better.
So.
C
J
C
A
J
C
M
M
M
C
Is
this
is
the
way
the
intent
of
this
has
always
been
if
there's
an
intergovernmental
contract
with
the
county
of
Webb
or
another
governmental
entity
or
political
subdivision,
that
would
provide
fire
services
or
affect
the
the
firefighters
in
in
the
what
their,
what
their
duties
are
going
to
be.
What
are
encompassed
right,
what
they're
expected
to
do
pursuant
to
the
Laredo
fire
department
manual?
A
C
Pursuing
to
your
duties,
As
A
Firefighter
and
an
EMS
provider,
tml
IRP
as
a
third
party
administrator,
is
an
agency
and
I.
Don't
believe
and
I
need
to
look
at
this,
but
I
don't
believe
that
it
falls
under
a
political
subdivision
and
we're
not
providing
services
to
them.
It's
basically
an
insurance
deal
and
the
workers
comp
we
must
be
able.
M
C
C
And
I
and
I
believe
that
that
has
to
you
know,
that's
a
whole
separate
process,
there's
an
appellate
process
for
that.
There's
due
process
rights
available
to
the
firefighter
to
be
able
to
appeal
of
determination
on
a
claim
like
that
and
that's
separate,
and
apart
from
you
know,
with
the
city,
the
city
doesn't
have
control
over
that
process
either.
C
J
J
That's
where
the
question
arises.
One
example
that
brought
up
that
has
brought
up
an
ass
is
when
Orchestra
was
asked
an
example.
If
it's
ordered
by
a
supervisor,
hey,
let's
go
help
the
civilian
there
on
the
street
push
their
car
to
the
side.
You
know
firefighters
hit
by
a
vehicle.
They
already
stated.
That's
not
within
your
job
description.
That's
not
your
duty!
I'm!
Looking
through
the
interview
government
argument,
section
right
now
to
see
if
it
will
cover
or
not
or
who
is
responsible
for
it.
We.
H
J
B
J
B
C
J
G
J
G
G
J
No
I
mean
I,
understand
that
and
I
think
what
Charlie
brought
up
and
the
issues
are
being
brought
up,
and
maybe
it
can
be
discussed
in
another
article.
We,
the
main
the
main
concern
is
just
whether
a
firefighter
would
be
covered
or
not
whether
an
order
is
lawful
and
workers
can't
pull
cover
or
unlawful.
J
G
J
The
city
will
take
if
they
determine
that
it's
I
tore
a
ligament
at
a
firing
workers,
company,
United,
saying
it's
a
not
an
injury,
consistent
with
fireflies,
so
I
understand,
that's
the
medical
side
and
I.
Don't
think
we're
bringing
that
up
right
now.
What
we're?
What
we're
concerned
with
is,
and
then
it
may
not
be
under
this
article,
we're
concern
is
narrowing
down
whether
a
supervisor
knows
that
that
order
is
covered.
That
order
is
not
covered,
fill
the
booster,
for
example.
If
it's
not
going
to
be
covered
and
I
agreement.
G
C
C
C
You
know
that
that
is
very
relevant
and
important,
but
most
of
the
hard
work
and
putting
together
this
and
evaluating
it
analyzing
it
making
sure
that
it
fits
with
what
the
city
can
do
and
what's
beneficial
to
the
firefighters
that
all
that
happens
back
in
the
caucus
when
we're
crunching
numbers
and
looking
and
looking
at
operational
things.
So
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
make
this
productive.
We've
talked
about
article
four,
it's
a
good
segue
into
article
eight,
because
it
brings
your
issues
with
duties
and
so
I'll
pass
this
along.
C
C
Yeah,
we're
done
with
article
four
and
we're
moving
on
to
article
eight
and
I'm
just
going
to
numerical
order,
because
I
thought
that
that
would
probably
be
that's
the
way
the
contract
closed.
So
that
would
probably
be
the
easiest
way
to
do
this,
and
so
this
is
our
counter
proposal
to
the
fire
Union's
proposals
of
July
13
2022.,
we're
placing
this
on
the
table.
September
15th
today,
2022
and
I
put
10
a.m.
C
And
for
firefighters
on
the
Laredo
fire
department
manual-
and
this
is
the
updated
one
today-
it's
the
one
effective
today,
2022
article
18,
section,
2,
actually
States
out
the
duties
and
those
Duties
are
that
firefighters
shall
perform
all
duties
delegated
to
them
by
their
Superior
officers.
Firefighters
shall
acquire
the
knowledge
of
all
various
types
of
apparatus,
tools
and
equipment
in
use
in
the
department
and
under
the
direction
of
their
Superior
officers,
maintains
such
apparatus
tools
and
equipment
in
their
care
or
possession
in
a
clean
condition
and
in
Readiness
for
operation.
C
J
J
J
C
J
C
C
A
C
This
is
who
it's
coming
from
related
to
firefighting:
fire
prevention,
rescue,
Emergency,
Medical,
Service,
Salvage,
overhaul,
work
and
maintenance
of
firefighter
equipment
apparatus,
building
in
the
fire,
station's
grounds,
cleaning
and
mowing
or
any
other
related
work.
Nothing
else
has
changed.
It
says
tire
changes
on
vehicles
other
than
automobiles,
pickup
trucks,
man
and
sport.
Utility
vehicles
would
not
be
included
as
a
duty
of
firefighters.
Employers
shall
provide
the
training
and
special
equipment
in
accordance
with
article
1112
necessary
to
maintain
all
firefighting
equipment,
including
all
vehicles
ready
for
Duty
status.
C
However,
if
circumstances
dictate
the
need
for
Contracting
for
tire
change
service,
the
district
Chief
responsible
for
his
or
her
respective
Vehicles
has
the
discretion
to
it.
Obtain
service,
painting
and
weed
maintenance
around
fire
hydrants
would
not
be
the
duties
of
firefighters,
and
so
all
we're
adding
is
just
the
clarity
that
it
would
be
pursuant
and
that
may
need
to
change.
I
put
Laredo
fire
department
manual,
because
I
didn't
have
the
the
official
name,
and
we
just
need
to
be
able
to
put
the
official
name.
C
If
it's
the
Sops,
we
will
do
that,
but
as
delegated
to
them
by
their
Superior
officers.
That
is
something
that
is
part
of
the
paramilitary
organization,
that
you
were
a
part
of
and
part
of
the
chain
of
command,
and
so
that's
what
that
accomplishes
on
8.3
you
had
proposed
the
60
shifts.
We've
left
that,
as
the
60
shifts
I
do
want
to
say
that,
even
though
it
was
it
seems
to
have
been
done
like
that
from
this
contract,
and
even
possibly
the
prior
contract
I,
don't
know
how
far
back
that
goes.
C
C
That
shift
goes
towards
the
60
shifts,
and
so
they
won't
have
to
wait
that
six
month
period
so
just
want
to
point
out
that
that
what
has
been
done
was
more
generous
and
what
the
language
is
saying
and
the
city
recognizes
that
and
is
just
willing
to
to
leave
it
as
the
60
shifts
and
and
leave
it
at
that.
It
provides
the
opportunity
for
that
that
acting
pay
as
a
driver
to
be
achieved
more
quickly
than
the
actual
six-month
period.
N
Those
are
rare
occasions
right,
but
even
if
they
do
acting
rank
your
further
notice,
they
they
get
hired
as
a
driver
and
that
that
is
an
assistant
driver,
the
assistant
driver,
even
if
they
work
exchanges
or,
like
you
said,
overtime,
I,
think
even
then
they
scrape
by
by
July
okay
yeah.
So
it
it's
just
a
matter
of
circumstances.
A
C
Okay,
you
know,
but
we're
we're
accepting
the
the
Union's
proposal
on
that
and
then
on.
8.5
injury,
illness
or
death
occurring
during
work
hours
are
presumptively
work
related
that
language
is
already
in
there,
we're
not
changing
that
said.
Injury,
illness
or
death
includes
its
incidents
arising
from
and
it
the
current
contract
only
says
duties
you
had.
The
union
had
proposed
taking
out
duties
and
adding
orders
and
directives
upon
discussion
at
the
table.
C
Injury,
illness
or
death
include
incidents
arising
from
duties,
orders
and
directives
at
the
direction
of
a
supervisor
and
or
for
the
benefit
of
the
city,
and
so
that
just
makes
it
more
encompassing
and
I
think
clarify
some
of
the
issues
and
the
concerns
that
you
had
with
regard
to.
Well,
you
know
we
don't
have
an
interlock
of
government
mental
contract,
but
my
supervisor
said:
I
need
to
get
as
part
of
my
duties.
I
need
to
go,
provide
fire
or
EMS
service
over
here
and
I.
Did
it
and
I
got
injured?
This
is
this.
C
And
if
you
and
I
invite
you,
if
you
have
the
I'll
visit
with
the
chief
and
my
team
as
to
the
proper
name
of
where
this
article
18
firefighter
job
description
is,
and
that's
that
would
be
of
course,
amended
on
8.1
I
have
it
in
as
Laredo
fire
department
manual,
but
it
probably
has
a
different
name.
Okay,
any
questions
there.
D
C
When
we're
going
back,
I
guess
we're
going
back
to
article
four
4.3
is
what
we're
talking
about.
So
with
regard
to
the
specific
language
in
article
4,
says
an
intergovernmental
contract
with
the
county
of
Webb
or
any
other
government
entity
or
political
subdivision
right
and
normally
a
school
district
should
be
qualified
as
a
government
is.
D
J
D
J
In
the
absence
of
literally
in
the
absence
of
a
contract,
if
a
municipality,
Report
furnishes
law
enforcement
services
to
another
administrator
account,
the
governmental
unit
that
requests
and
obtains
the
services
is
responsible
for
any
civil
liability
that
arises
from
furniture.
The
Furnishing
of
those
services.
C
K
J
C
F
C
I'm
just
saying
just
for
the
sake
of
the
public
who
who
is
not
familiar
with
the
way,
those
kinds
of
things
work.
Yes,
that
has
to
go.
There's
legal
requirements
and
we
always
go
through
the
the
department-
will
always
go
through
the
especially
the
legal
department,
we'll
always
go
through
the
legal
requirements
to
make
sure
that
they
are
met,
that
that's
not
that
it
is
a
valid
contract
or
not
a
void
contract
that
we
cover
of
the
city's
liability
right.
J
And
the
the
reason
I
bring
it
up
is
that
I
have
no
issue
with
the
language
that
we
proposed
in
article
four
I'm,
just
asking.
If
I
know
Council
has
approved
for
us
to
respond
to
uisd
outside
the
city
limits
for
to
respond
for
DPS
border
patrol.
No
one
has
an
issue
with
that
I'm
just
asking
do
we
have
an
agreement
and
there's
a
reference
to
chapter
the
statute?
If.
H
J
C
J
B
C
This
is
again
an
amended
article.
The
city
first
proposed
this
article
July
28th
about
1
pm,
and
the
union
has
not
counter
proposed,
but
when
we
proposed
it,
we
had
a
really
good
discussion
about
this
article
and
so
what
we,
what
I
went
ahead
and
did
is
just
to
move
things
forward
again.
I
took
the
consensus
and
I
think
what
we
discussed
at
that
table
at
the
table
at
that
time
on
July
28th
and
tried
to
include
it
in
the
language
that
was
proposed
here
on
article
10.
C
C
We
did
not
want
to
do
anything
with
the
to
change
the
exchanges.
The
issue
was
that
the
supervisor
supervisors
or
the
people
who
were
setting
the
schedule
of
the
rosters
for
that
day
for
each
fire
fire
station
weren't
getting
notification
of
of
exchanges,
so
they
were
expecting
one
person
and
then
somebody
else
shows
up,
and
it
was
just
kind
of
you
know.
We
just
wanted
to
prevent
that
from
happening
so
that
when
they
set
their
rosters
I
think
they
sent
them
what
it
said
about
7
A.M
for
that
day,.
C
They
know
who
they're
working
with
and
who
who's
you
know
where
they
need
to
be
so.
This
is,
and
we
heard
that
we
heard
what
you
said
in
terms
of
what
we
have
proposed
before
and
we're
hoping
that
this
language
May
fulfill
that
it
just
wants.
It
just
provides
a
requirement
that
somebody
tells
somebody
that
the
exchange
is
going
to
happen,
whether
it
be
a
previously
scheduled.
You
can
email
it
and
say:
hey
we're
going
to
exchange
this
later
or
if
it's
an
emergency
exchange
that
happens.
C
Mid-Shift
that
you
just
tell
your
supervisor,
hey
I,
am
it
doesn't
require
it
in
writing
or
anything,
but
at
least
that
they
make
some
sort
of
contact
to
say.
Hey
I
have
an
emergency
exchange
at
this
time,
and
this
is
what's
happening
so
that
they
know
what's
going
to
go
on
as
soon
as
as
it
happens,
so,
and
in
order
to
encourage
that
we
also
did
this
firefighters
involved
in
shift.
Changes
must
notify
the
station's
District,
Chief,
captain
or
acting
Captain
prior
to
the
shift
to
be
exchanged.
C
Otherwise,
The
Exchange
will
not
be
granted
and
we
put
that
in
Ms
because
on
10.4
it
says
firefighters
may
be
granted
up
to
five
exchanges
and
we're
not
intending
to
take
it
away.
We
just
want
to
make
sure
that
that
the
firefighters
know
how
important
it
is
to
notify
their
supervisor
and
say:
hey,
you
know
it's
and
it
could
be
either
the
person
doing
the
exchange
or
the
person
that's
going
to
be
filling
in
for
the
exchange.
C
So
as
long
as
there's
some
sort
of
notification,
the
right
before
the
the
shift
happens,
we
would
ask
that,
for
instance,
if
it's
a
regular
shift
exchange
that
it
happened
at
least
maybe
I
think
10
p.m.
If,
if
you
know
that,
because
they're
gonna,
or
at
least
before
they
set
the
roster
for
that
day,
about
7
A.M,
that
that
would
that
would
suffice.
M
A
C
Emergency,
it
could
probably
it
could
Bishop.
You
know
this
is
a
relative
who's,
very
sick
or
something
or
an
emergency,
a
family
emergency
or,
and
that
we're
not
intending
to
change
any
part
of
that.
We
just
want
to
be
able
to
that.
They
say:
hey
somebody's
going
to
be
there
for
me,
and
and
that's
it.
K
M
C
E
C
M
A
M
N
C
K
C
H
K
C
This
is
our
counter
proposal.
Today
it
responds
to
the
fire
Union
proposal
made
on
July
13th
2
p.m.
This
is
really
great
with
regard
to
health
and
safety
and
the
only
change
that
had
been
proposed.
Oh
no,
there
was
a
two
different
changes.
I
mean
look
on
11.5
if
any
employees
required
to
submit
to
a
blood
or
urine
sample
pursuant
to
the
city's
drug
and
alcohol
policy
for
post
accident
or
post
injury.
C
Such
employees
shall
continue
to
work,
however,
will
not
be
allowed
to
respond
to
any
emergency
calls
or
operate
any
machinery
and
or
vehicle
or
may
be
placed
on
administrative
leave
as
deemed
necessary
by
the
fire
chief
with
or
without
pay.
You
had
proposed
the
fire
unit
had
proposed
on
11.5
to
take
out
without
pay.
I,
don't
know
that
this
is
currently
what
is
what
has
been
in
the
contract
and
what
has
been
working
I.
Don't
know
that
there
has
been
any
instance.
C
Do
you
know
of
any
incidents
where
they
have
been
placed
without
pay
on
something
like
this,
but
we
need
the
the
fire
chief
and
the
the
fire
chief
to
be
able
to
if
he
deems
necessary,
and
he
has
to
have
grounds
for
it
to
play
somebody
on
administratively
without
pay
for
an
egregious
incident.
We
need
to
at
least
have
that
to
know
how
serious
something
like
this
is.
C
If
there
is
any
instance
that
this
has
been
a
problem,
then
we
need
to
we,
we
can
address
that
it
may
be
an
individual
or
case-by-case
basis,
but
but
the
fire
chief
does
need
the
ability
to
to
have
that
have
that
available
to
to
do
on
11.6
if
an
employee
is
required
to
submit
to
a
blood
or
urine
sample
pursuant
to
the
city's
drug
and
alcohol
policy
for
random
drug
and
alcohol
testing,
such
employee
will
continue
to
work,
oh,
which
one
is.
That
is
that
the
one
you
hit.
C
It
was
unclear
when
you
were
saying
business
hours.
We
were
talking
about
from
eight
to
five
Monday
through
Friday.
The
issue
that
we
have
here
is
this
is:
what's
the
firefighters
are
subject
to
random
testing
and
random
testing
is
done
every
day.
It's
done
by
a
computer
system.
I
believe
picks
the
random
for
each
day.
C
That's
ever
happened
and
what
wound
up
happening
in
that
particular
instance
was
that
the
five
that
particular
firefighter
had
been
tagged
for
random
drug
testing
that
day,
but
he
had
had
an
exchange
up
till
8,
PM
I
think
it
was
only
for
half
a
shift
or
I'm
not
sure
how
much
of
the
shift
it
was,
but
he
showed
up
at
his
shift
at
8pm,
and
so
the
random
had
already
come
out.
So
that's
why?
C
C
Right,
and
so
that
was
that
one
instance
but
I
believe
because
it
was
random
and
it
was
at
the
station-
that's
just
that's
just
one
instance
that
it
happened
in
this
this
entire
time.
The
other
item
is
that
firefighting,
as
you
know,
a
firefighting
and
Emergency
Medical
Services
a
24-hour
seven
day,
a
week
service,
and
so
we
have
firefighters
on
duty
24
hours
a
day,
seven
days
a
week
and
the
randoms
are
usually
done
or
issued
in
the
morning
so
for
whoever's
who
whoever's
there.
C
I
I
I
It
was
there
since
the
morning
right,
he
was
there
was
this
morning
that
he
said.
Usually
these
drug
tests
happen
at
you
know,
eight
to
nine
a.m,
where
they
should
be
happening.
You
know
and
I,
but
I've
seen,
we've
seen
many
cases
where
you
know
a
lot
of
these
other
individuals
are
getting
tested,
just
randomly
where
they're
having
to
face.
You
know
units
of
the
service
for
a
couple
hours,
because
you
know
they
get
pulled
for
a
drug
test
at
a
certain
time.
I
G
H
N
K
E
C
They
have
specific
contractual
provisions
and
we
can't
call
them
out
on
them
to
cure
a
deficiency
or
a
default
of
the
contract
unless
we
know
about
it,
because
with
on
contracts
like
that,
they
have
certain
remedies
and
you
have
to
provide
them
a
a
cure
period,
give
them
a
letter
and
say:
hey
you're,
not
following
this
provision
of
the
contract.
You
need
to
do
it
within
30
days.
Otherwise,
then
we
can
get
another
vendor.
You
know
something
like
that
and
it's
pursuant
to
that
specific
contract.
A
G
C
C
And
in
this
article
you
had
proposed
a
new
31.3.
It
said
that
if
the
fire
chief
were
to
form
some
sort
of
Review
Committee
that
the
fire
Union
would
have
a
representative
on
there
we're
proposing
to
leave
the
disciplinary
action
article.
The
same.
That's
our
proposal,
the
fire,
the
only
the
ultimate
authority
to
issue
discipline
falls
on
the
chief
he's,
the
only
one
that
has
the
authority
to
issue
discipline,
nor
that's
a
management
right
within
his
management
right.
C
When
he's
investigating
issues
involving
discipline,
he
does
have
normally
a
chain
of
command
that
he
can
refer
to,
and
this
chain
of
command
can
provide
analysis,
recommendations
Etc,
usually
when,
and
there
may
be
times
that
it's
not
necessary.
There
may
be
times
that
he
he
he
asked
for
a
Review
Committee,
but
that
Review
Committee
consists
of
management
and
he
only
it's
advisory
only,
and
so
we're
just
going
to
maintain
that
and
with
regard
to
the
disciplinary
procedure
that
could
possibly
lead
up
to
the
disciplinary
action.
C
I
believe
it's
in
the
the
the
firefighter
who
is
subject
of
a
disciplinary
investigation
or
action
has
always
been
advised
that
they
can
have
a
union
representative
available
union
representative
can
attend
with
them
whatever
parts
of
the
process
that
they
need,
and
you
know
so.
The
Union's
always
involved
we're
representative,
if,
if
the
firefighter
so
chooses
to
have
that
representation
in
the
in
the
process
on
the
employee
side,
so
our
proposal
is
that
we
leave
article
31
as
it
is
and
and
make
no
changes.
C
I
A
C
A
M
B
C
Have
everybody
there?
We
go
we'll
finalize
the
the
sign-in
sheets,
but
for
today,
I,
don't
know
how
much
you
heard,
but
we
have
a
lot
of
work
that
we're
still
doing
in
the
background.
We
only
had
three
working
days
between
the
last
session
and
today
and
that,
like
I,
said,
I
have
a
lot
of
the
most
of
the
upper
management
here
at
the
table
with
me,
who
have
a
lot
of
other
meetings
and
other
things
that
we're
fitting
in
and
they're.
C
You
know
that
we
have
to
fit
into
the
schedule,
so
we
we're
gonna
from
our
perspective,
we're
gonna
use
the
rest
of
the
day
to
caucus
and
work
on
work
on
the
issues
make
sure
we
provide
you.
The
information
that
we
discussed
at
the
beginning
of
this
meeting
look
and
see
and
we're
working
on
a
bunch
of
other
counter
proposals
and
costing
and
evaluating
things.
We
did
ask
that
I
know
that
you're
wanting
you
asked
us
to
look
at
Article,
15
and
article
30,
and
so
we'll
be
doing
that.
C
H
C
And
we've
already
and,
as
you
know,
we've
already
placed
some
new
money,
a
significant
amount
of
new
money
on
the
table
for
a
five-year
contract,
so
we're
not
going
backwards,
so
that's
already
there
and
and
but
we
need
to
evaluate
what
what
we
can
do
and
we
need
to
look
at
the
we've
from
our
side.
We
have
to
look
at
the
whole
picture
because
we
don't
want
to.
C
We
want
the
whole
contract
to
be
cohesive.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
the
that
the
dollars
that
we
do
have
that
we
can
provide
the
most
value
to
the
firefighters
as
well
as
the
city
make
them
count
the
most
and-
and
that's
you
know,
that's
that's
a
whole.
That's
one
of
the
goals
of
making
sure
that
you
know
the
limited
monies
that
we
do
have
that
we
make
them
count
and
we
give
them
the
most
value.
So
and-
and
we
are
looking
at
a
five-year
contract
so.
M
C
K
A
M
C
C
I
had
another,
then
another
previously
set
hearing
that
I
had
no
control
over.
If
that
changes
I'll,
let
you
know
if
we
make
sure
if
we
have
enough
of
the
72
hours
but
just
think
about
it
for
the
20.
Second,
we
may
have
to
hopefully
we'll
be
close
closer
to
the
end,
but
we
may
have
to
sign
an
extension
to
you
know
to
get
to
get
there
make
sure
we
don't
run
out
of
time.
So.
C
So
we
will
be
working
I,
don't
know
that
we'll
be
having
a
public
session.
We
have
a
lot
of
stuff
that
we're
going
over
and
and
because
yeah
make
sure
we
have
everything
organized
and
so
I
I,
probably
anticipate
that
we'll
have
this
set
public
session.
We'll
have
lunch,
then
we'll
have
the
other
session,
hopefully
about
2
30
and
then
for
the
day.
I
think
we'll
just
caucus
and
we're
just
going
to
continue
working
after
that.
E
H
E
C
C
Okay,
we
have
all
this
all
these
articles
that
are
have
an
economic
impact,
and
so
we
need
to
see
what,
where
we're,
gonna,
how
we're
gonna
negotiate
that
how
we're
going
to
strategize
on
getting
that
for
for
the
benefit
of
everybody,
and
so
you
know
without
any,
without
the
article
16
on
the
ad
page,
so
that
we
can
evaluate
everything
else.
We
it'd
be
hard
to
just
say
to
ta1
and
then
at
the
and
then
at
the
detriment
of
another
one
that
may
be
may
have
a
you
know.
E
C
Just
like
just
like
you
have
to
group
your
30
and
you're
15.,
we
have
to
look
at
it
the
same
way,
so
I
think
that
we
need
to
start
having
the
economic
discussions
as
a
group
and
and
at
least
that
way
we
can.
You
know
we're
working
with
the
all
the
counter
proposals
that
you
have
when
we
come
back.
We
say:
okay,
this
is
what
we
can
work
out
so.
A
N
A
M
N
M
M
C
M
M
B
H
B
C
C
M
H
C
C
C
No,
no
that's!
Okay,
again,
I
was
just
going
over
the
articles
that
I
think
were
very
close
on
and
could
possibly
ta
today,
and
that
would
be
article
four,
the
recognition
of
negotiating
authorities.
That's
one
that
one
of
the
ones
that
we
proposed
today
we
already
signed
six
eight,
which
was
the
one
that
changed
the
it
was
the
duties
and
the
60
shift
change.
I
C
The
current
manual
was
issued
in
2017
by
Chief
Steve
Steve
e
lundeen,
and
those
manuals
are
available
at
every
fire
department
and
they're
they're,
basically
used
for
every
I
guess
they're
the
Sops
that
are
followed
for
the
all
the
duties
of
the
firefighters,
so
that
that's
the
that
would
be
the
one
change.
The
reference
would
be:
the
City
of
Laredo
fire
department
policies
and
procedures
manual.
C
C
E
C
C
I
C
C
E
G
E
I
E
As
we
mentioned
before,
we
represent
our
membership
membership.
This
is
prime
one
of
their
primary
concerns,
one
of
the
primary
stances
on
the
what
they
they'd
like
to
keep,
and
this
is
just
our
membership.
Speaking
on
behalf
of
us,
we
we
feel,
like
you,
guys,
needed
this
information
to
to
budget
accordingly,
so
we
want
to
provide
that
as
as
as
soon
as
possible.
C
I
I
think
when
it
comes
to
this
article,
I,
don't
think
you
know
us
as
a
union,
we
have
to
vote
put
into
into
writing
something
that
we
think
is
going
to
get
past
right,
so
I
think
any
anytime
you
you
mention
getting
rid
of
that
percentage.
You
know
it's
not
something
that
we
would
be
able
to
pass
through
our
members,
I
think
when
it
comes
to
percentages.
You
know
our
members
do
a
lot
of
stuff
when
it
comes
to
this
contract,
especially
you
know,
EMS,
service
and
I
think
you
know.
I
C
E
C
A
K
C
But
it's
the
it's
a
department
under
the
city
and
so
they're,
the
one
major
city
that
does
it
I,
know
I
think
the
other
one
was
McAllen.
I
knew
there
was
possibly
one
other,
but
those
and
that
that
poses
a
whole
different
set
of
it
has
a
whole
different
set
of
factors
and
issues
that
go
along
with
it.
But
most
of
the
majority
of
fire
departments
are
now
expecting
and
require
that
their
firefighters
not
only
be
fire
certified
right,
but
they
also
require
paramedic
certification.
C
So
paramedics,
paramedic
and
EMS
service
is
now
also
recognized
under
chapter
143
as
part
of
what
a
firefighter
does
it's
not
only
fire
service
but
includes
EMS,
and
that's
why
it's
now
covered
under
143..
So
as
far
as
that,
I
think
that
we,
the
city,
recognizes
the
the
important
services
that
are
provided
to
the
city.
C
The
problem
is
that
the
percentage
becomes
a
you
know
the
percentage
ad
pay
as
a
percentage
of
a
base
pay
which
not
only
just
includes
the
base
pay
but
includes
any
kind
of
overtime
that
becomes
something
that
can
can
run
away
from
the
Department
in
LA
and
have
a
very
large
expense.
As
you
see
in
the
cumulative
register
and
the
current
costs,
which
I
don't
have
right
in
front
of
me,
but
I
think
that
the
ad
pays
a
loan
were
above
six
million
dollars
per
year.
B
I
A
L
C
J
J
C
Just
for
the
sake
of
celebrity
like
we
all
can
hear,
because
every
everybody's
comment
and
all
this
information
is
extremely
important
in
this
discussion.
If
we
can
just
try
to
not
talk
over
each
other,
because
I
want
to
make
sure
that
we
capture
the
questions
that
we
address
the
issues.
But
this
is
what's
the
current
FTE
on
that.
Is
that
like
390,
what
was
it
346.
L
L
One
thing
to
note:
there
is
on
the
four
years
we
have
the
four
years
for
those
incentives,
so
you
notice
in
1718,
which
is
a
four
four
years
going
back,
we're
at
5.2
the
following
fiscal
year
went
to
5.5
and
then
from
there
he
jumped
half
a
million
to
6
million
and
then
6.4,
which
is
another
half
400
000..
So
that's
just.
J
H
C
Cumulative
register,
which
includes
the
information
that
you
have
that
what
we're
talking
about
is
the
part
of
the
cumulative
register
that
talks
about
the
what
the
actual
payout
for
these
ad
pays.
Only
ad
pays
are,
and
it's
and
it's
spread
amongst
if
it's,
if,
if
the
total
is
six
point
6.3
or
what
was
it
6.8
million
dollars,
let
me
tell
you
what
it
is
that
spread
between
300.
I
mean
I'm,
familiar
with.
F
C
C
But
and
then
I
think,
if
you
look
at
the
cumulative
ad
pay,
the
average
on
what
the
ad
pay
is,
as
a
percentage
is
a
little
bit
above
17
percent,
because
you
cannot,
you
can
get
two
of
the
percentage
ad
pays
and
the
highest
that
you
can
get
are
both
each
ten
percent,
which
I
think
that
you've
probably
and
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
because
I'm
not
intimately
familiar
with
how
how
many
years
it
takes.
But
I'm
thinking
about
it,
takes
between
20
10
to
12
years
to
reach
that
twenty
percent
is.
F
H
C
F
C
To
do
is
on
an
average
salary
of
and
I'm
just
going
to
use
the
hundred
thousand
dollar
a
year,
because
it's
easy,
a
17,
you
know
17
ad
pay
or
twenty
percent
ad
pay
on.
That
is
an
additional
twenty
thousand
dollars.
On
top
of
that,
that's
that's
a
large
chunk
when,
when
you
look
across
the
board,
every
other
department
has
specific
ad
pays
and
they
do
add,
pays
for
EMS
and
paramedic
certification,
EMT
and
paramedic
certification.
C
That's
not
an
unusual
ad
paid,
but
the
ad
pays
are
much
less.
You
know
some
some
have
and
we'll
look
at
those
comparables,
but
some
have
say
125
a
month
and
then
there's
an
additional
ad
pay
for
ambulance
assignment,
just
as
you
would
here,
there's
a
percentage
and
then
a
couple
of
other
AD
pays
for
being
assigned
to
an
ambulance.
C
So
so
that's
what
we're
looking
at
there's
a
the
number
one:
the
ability
to
be
fiscally
responsible,
the
ability
to
budget
properly
for
for
these
ad
pays
because
part
of
the
ad
pays
are
tied
to
or
the
percentage
ad
pays
are
tied
to
overtime,
which
we
never
know.
You
know
if,
if
there's
a
a
huge
need
for
overtime
because
an
event
or
you
know
some
sort
of
emergency
or
something
happens,
and
we
have
wound
up
wind
up
with
a
bunch
of
vacancies
that
we
can't
fill
right
away.
A
L
Of
mention
we're
not
even
addressing
Mr
chapa's
comment:
we're
not
inflating
the
ad
page,
we're
just
listing.
What's
in
that
category
of
that
phase,
so,
for
example,
the
uniform
allowance
is
187.
So
if
you
want
to
take
the
6.3
million
that
we
have
in
there,
you
can
take
the
187
out
of
that,
because
that's
a
uniform
on
eyes
and
you
can
also
take
the
longevity
which
is
356
out
of
that.
L
So
your
net
incentives
is
going
to
be
six
million,
approximately
six
million
and
the
percent
the
ad
page
that
we're
kind
of
looking
at
only
is
the
percentages.
So
some
of
the
other
percenters
you
can
tell
the
difference
right
away
from
the
ones
that
are
percentages
and
not
because
they
kind
of
pop
out
and
and
just
to
kind
of
mention
it
like.
For
example,
if
we
look
at
the
one,
that's
a
10,
a
firefighter
comes
in
at
70
at
70
000,
which
is
the
entry
level
he's
getting
seven
thousand
dollars
for
that
10
ad
pay.
L
Well,
you
look
at
a
deputy
or
an
assistant
they're,
getting
either
13
and
15
000.
So
there's
there's
a
difference
between
in
the
ranks
of
that
amount.
If
we
look
at
an
average
just
looking
at
an
average
of
what
that
is,
it's
about
11
000.
for
that
incentive
pay.
So
we
compare
that
to
other
cities,
that's
where
you
can
see
what
they're
paying
more
or
less
for
that
same
ad
pay
on
on
those
other
cities
compared
to
that
11
000
average
that
we
have
base
that
is
based
on
the
percentage.
F
F
J
D
K
N
J
F
L
H
J
And
if
we've
seen
it
with
our
pension
system,
we've
tried
to
put
everyone
on
the
same
page,
because
what
it
creates
is
infighting.
We
don't
have
a
lot
of
turnover
that,
like
what
you
said
they
don't
have
to
hire
on,
but
once
they're
in
we've,
we've
experienced
this
with
I'll,
give
you
the
example
of
the
sellback
of
sick
leave
at
the
end
of
our
careers.
There's
two
groups
in
our
department
and
when
that
when
they
begin
it
when
they
begun,
there
was
no
one
in
there
we
signed
it.
J
N
C
Extremely
rich
excuse
me:
the
pension
has
an
extremely
rich
Benefit
Plan
consider
compared
to
a
lot
any
of
the
other
benefit
plans,
a
lot
pensions,
a
lot
to
the
city,
correct
and
you're
right,
there's
a
majority
there's
a
minority
and
it
constantly
changes.
Now
in
attempting
to
fix
the
issues
with
the
pension
plan
and
the
funding
of
the
pension
plan.
We
all
have
agreed
on
this
table
that
throwing
money
at
it.
It's
not
going
to
fix
it
right.
C
The
ad
pays
are
in
the
same
kind
of
that
that's
leading
to
the
same
kind
of
problem,
because
the
ad
pays
are
quickly
going
to
be
increasing
and
increasing.
Even
if
we
didn't
do
anything
that
there's
there's
more
than
likely
gonna,
even
if
the
contract
stayed
the
same
and
we
didn't
give
any
raise
or
anything
I'm
just
saying
for
the,
for
the
sake
of
an
example,
there's
still
going
to
be
an
increase
in
the
ad
pays
at
some
point
and.
C
Yeah
because
it's
everybody
is
going
to
eventually
get
to
the
20,
we're
not
changing
any
of
that
aspect
of
it.
But
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
not
only
okay
address
that
we
will.
We
see
that
we
need
to
add
increases
to
keep
up
with.
You
know
the
outside
world
and
whatever
is
going
on
in
here
and
that's
why
we
have
put.
We
have
hit
over
10
million
dollars
of
new
money
on
this
table.
We
had.
C
C
On
what
happens
right?
So
that's
a
lot
of
interest
and
and
what
we're
asking
to
do-
and
we
were
just
providing
a
starting
point-
is
let's
talk
about
this
ad
pay
because
it's
going
to
be
the
percentage
I'd
pay
a
loan,
because
it
is
going
to
create
a
problem
and
even
though
the
city's
gonna,
you
know,
even
if
you
weren't
going
to
change
it,
the
city's
still
obligated
to
to
fund
that,
at
the
detriment
of
all
other
things,
whether
we
throw
more
money
at
it.
C
J
J
H
I
C
I
C
A
I
C
A
C
It's
hard
to
compare,
as
you
know,
just
one
to
one
because
number
one:
the
rank
structures
are
different
across
the
board:
they're
steps
across
the
board,
because
some
people
don't
get
you
know
certain
increases
here,
so
they
rather
do
steps
in
order
to
create.
You
know,
help
incentivize
retention,
you
know
and
there's,
if
maybe
even
if
they
have
a
bunch
of
AD,
pays
they're
low
they're,
not
high
they're
70.
You
know
seventy
five
dollars
a
month,
fifty
dollars
a
month.
C
J
C
C
K
K
C
J
J
Are
different
right?
We
try
to
compare
ourselves
to
the
border
cities.
We
try
to
compare
ourselves
to
to
cities
that
are
similar
like
us,
like
we
can't
it's
completely
different.
A
metroplex
city
is
the
Houston
area,
some
of
the
some
of
the
suburbs
that
are
around
large
cities.
You
get
into
the
into
the
weeds
of
it,
and
it's
really
hard
you're.
C
C
C
J
Most
and
the
thing
I
wanted
to
point
out
what
you
mentioned
earlier:
the
shift
because
the
shift
in
Texas
was
to
move
to
Firebase
only
fire
privatize,
EMS
shove.
It
out
reduce
the
cost
and
you're
starting
to
see
these
private
companies
go
broke.
Our
county
has
gone
through
I,
don't
know
how
many
companies
and
private
EMS
it's
some
sustainable.
C
J
A
D
J
D
Ems
and
there's
no
question
about
the
level
of
service
y'all,
the
level
of
service
is
great.
What
we're
talking
about
is
the
sustainability
of
the
money
that
we
have.
The
finite
resources
y'all
I
understand
like
in
in
the
private
sector.
You
have
a
Union
money
taken
away
from
workers
feeds
the
shareholders.
That's
not
it
doesn't
happen
here.
Yes,
that's
not
what's
going
on
it's,
because
we
have
other
things
that
the
city
needs
to
fund.
This
isn't
going
to.
D
You
know,
since
that
capable
of
the
records
it's
only
to
the
people
right
and
those
are
the
same
people
that
you
serve
the
same
people
that
need
other
types
of
services.
Right,
don't
get
me
wrong.
Is
it
very
important
absolutely,
but
there
are
a
lot
of
other
things
that
the
city
has
to
fund
and
it's
hard.
We
have
to
be
able
to
balance,
making
sure
that
you
guys
are
are
compensated
plus
making
sure
everything
runs
the
way
this
is
I.
J
C
C
F
L
L
Thank
you.
What
I
was
trying
what
I
was
going
back
is
when
you
graduate
you
graduate
with
EMT,
so
you
get
the
first
10
the
next
one
you
get.
Is
the
certification
for
the
buyer
puts
you
six
percent.
You
get
that
one
at
five
six
years
at
your
six
years,
six
years
so
within
six
years,
you're
already
at
16
..
So
our
average
is
the
average
that
we're
saying
is
about
17,
but
in
six
years,
you're
at
16.
L
The
11
000
average
that
I'm
talking
about
on
the
master
certification.
We
have
a
hundred
and
eight
people
in
there,
so
the
average,
if
I
divide
the
a
million,
something
that
we're
paying
is
11
000..
So
where
we're
talking
about
something
getting
away
is,
for
example,
look
at.
Let's
look
at
the
ENT,
the
EMT
average
is
8
000.,
that's
the
average
that
we're
paying
on
the
number
of
people
that
we
have.
L
When
we
look
at
Corpus,
how
much
do
they
pay
for
their
EMT
certification
about
twelve
hundred
dollars,
so
we're
comparing
eight
thousand
with
twelve
twelve
hundred
dollars?
That's
where
we're
saying
it's
getting
away
from
us,
but
because
the
normal
ad
pay
that
is
paid
throughout
the
state
were
much
higher
than
them.
L
That's
when
the
incentive
came
if
they
came
in,
but
we
were
paying
firefighters,
thirty
thousand
dollars
back
then,
when
you
had
a
10
ad
paid,
that
was
three
thousand
dollars
more
20
and
back
then
we
were
doing
the
the
the
salary
surveys
on
the
on
the
on
the
comparable
cities,
eventually
that
that
salary
surveys
weren't
generating
any
more
increases.
So
then,
from
that
point
forward
we
started
doing
fix
them
out
because
we
we
got
from
in
one
of
the
lowest
paid
firefighters
20
years
ago
to
being
on
the
top.
L
So
now
that
temper,
those
fixed
10
ad
space
are
having
more
of
an
impact
on
us
because
now
you're
looking
at
wages
of
a
hundred
thousand
dollars,
you
know
so
that's
where
when
we
say
it's
getting
away
from
us,
we
need
to
have
some
control
of
that.
That's
where
we're
coming
from,
not
that
you
know
that
we
don't
want
to
it's,
not
that
we
don't
think
you
deserve
it
or
what,
but
that
cost
is
running
away
from
us
as
we
compare
it
to
other
incentives.
Yeah.
C
I
C
And
it's
not
so
much
I
think
that
there
was
a
and
and
I
know,
there's
a
lot
of
factors
for
the
of
the
vacancies
that
the
City
of
Laredo
fire
department
is
experiencing.
Most
of
it
I
think
was
a
result
of
not
having
academies
during
probably
the
period
of
covid,
or
there
was
something
that
happened,
that
they
didn't
have
any
academies
for
one.
You
know
once
you
have
a
vacancy,
it's
not
something
you
can
feel
right
away
unless
you
already
have
academies
in
the
pipeline.
C
So
although
we
have
vacancies
at
the
you
know,
at
the
firefighter
level
we
have
Cadets
to
fill
them
they're
just
in
the
pipeline
and
not
in
there.
Yet
I
think
that
we're
graduating
a
class
here
in
January
and
then
one
in
June
in
June
or
July.
So
those
vacancies,
although
you
know
they're
they're,
going
to
be
filled
and
they're
in
the
pipeline,
and
we
propose
to
I
think
that
there
there
was
discussion
about
another
Academy
being.
L
H
C
All
the
other
cities
that
have
the
normal
base
or
the
normal
just
fixed
ad
pays.
They
negot
you're
automatically
when
you're
increasing
your
base,
pay
you're
automatically
negotiating
your
ad
Pace
in
this
particular
case
right.
So
we
have
to
look
at
both
of
those
together
in
other
cities.
They
negotiate
those
separately,
even
though
it
may
be
part
of
a
package
deal.
C
As
you
know,
when
people,
when,
when
cities
and
fire
departments
and
police
departments
and
EMS
departments
negotiate
on
their
contracts,
you
know
base
pay,
is
one
thing
and
AD
pay
is
another.
You
know,
and
here
it's
all
tied
together.
So
that's
why
it's
also
extremely
important.
We
can't
we
have
to
look
at
it
at
the
same
way
just
like
when
we
were
proposing
you
said
well,
we
need
to
know
what
that
is
before
we
decide
what
happens
on
ad
paid,
because
it's
absolutely
related.
It's
what
it's.
Basically
in
one.
C
And
what
we're
proposing
right
now
wasn't
even
going
to
start.
You
know
we
provided
a
base
and
we're
willing
to
talk,
but
you
know,
as
long
as
we
can
start
start
fixing
the
issue
before
we
have
a
huge,
a
huge
issue
on
a
fun.
You
know
a
financial
obligation
that
the
city
you
may
not
be
able
to
pay
at
some
point.
We
want
to
start
some
sort
of
process
to
get
there
without
without
hurting
the
firefighters,
without
taking
away
anything.
What
can
we
do.
J
L
We
did
propose
in
our
proposal.
They
have
some
amounts
to
fix
amounts
and
he's
I
could
put
like
was
mentioned.
It's
only
for
those
new
people
coming
in
everybody
on
board
was
in
a
continual
way,
keep
moving
up
with
those
percentage
at
PACE,
but
we
did
recommend,
or
we
did
propose
some
rates
fixed
rates
moving
forward
over
those
new
firefighters
coming
in.
A
C
J
A
J
You
yeah,
but
but
by
leaving
him
in
a
percentage
and
what
I'm
saying
is
like
if
we
even
try
it
would
have
to
be
something
like
that
and
it
would
have
to
be
a
change
in
the
actual.
With
the
payers
will
present
seven
eight
thousand
that
may
have
to
increase
to
get
the
Department
out
of
it
right,
but
that's
I,
guess
something
it
would
be
fixed
and
would
move
over.
But
it's
still
going
to
affect
the
bottom
line.
C
H
C
Have
to
cut
or
there's
there's
a
problem
with
apple:
we
can't
replace
apparatus,
we
have
an
old,
you
know
an
old
equipment.
You
know
things
like
that,
so
there's
a
lot
of
moving
parts
to
this
department.
You
all
know
that
and
and
I
know
that
as
well
and
and
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
just
make
sure
that
it
it's
a
smoothly
well
oiled
machine
and
it
keeps
going
and
we
maintain
the
high
standards
that
we
have.
C
We
want
to
be
want
to
be
able
to
attract
and
retain,
retain,
that's
always
a
a
goal
for
both
sides
and
that
everything
is
fair
and
that
we
can
the
city
the
city
is
able
to
budget
and
say
yes,
we're
going
to
agree
to
this
five-year
contract,
no
problem
and
then
when
we
come
back
and
sit
down,
you
know
we'll
look
at
it
again
and
again.
These
are
these
are
contractual
negotiations.
J
That's
what
we're
trying
to
do
I
mean
we
can
go
back
and
revisit
it
and
see
if
we
can
have
something
for
next
meeting.
But
right
now
we
wouldn't
be
to
move
forward,
I
think
sure,
to
move
on
to
there
it's
an
article
and
we'll
go
back
and
taking
a
consideration
and
see
if
I
guess,
because
maybe
we
can
take
the
next
week,
talk
to
some
members
and
then
again
on
our
stand.
But.
J
N
M
C
G
M
J
A
C
M
J
C
K
J
M
H
H
C
L
I
L
C
H
E
So
I
think
the
first
proposal.
It
was
contingent
on
the
firefighter
doing
that
one
percent
and
I
know
we
had
discussion
on
this.
Yes,
so
I
know
we
have
to
write
out
the
or
I
guess
finalize
our
counter
for
this,
but
I
think
we're
on
on
the
same
boat
of
a
plan
being
chosen
contingency.
It
was
that
something
the
city
is
willing
to
agree
to.
Oh.
A
E
E
H
E
L
L
And
and
so
we'll
be
right,
we'll
be
below
at
plan
if
any
passes,
without
anything
else,
without
the
additional
one
percent
from
the
firefighters.
Without
the
addition
of
the
city
plan,
a
will
get
us
the
24
years,
the
additional
one
percent
from
either
the
firefighters
or
the
city
will
get
us
down
another
four
years,
so
we
would
go
from
24
25
to
21.
at
least
two
percent.
Well,
because
in
the
footnotes
it
talks
about
that
that
one
percent
will
get
you
the
23.
L
C
C
A
F
B
F
F
L
F
L
H
A
F
H
L
Time
today,
I
know
where
you're
going.
What
you're
saying
is
the
the
plan
is
more
sensitive,
but
at
this
time,
when
we're
doing
it
at
the
same
time
sure
so,
instead
of
putting
one,
we
would
put
two
percent
so
we're
doing
it
today,
not
in
the
future,
when
it
becomes
the
arteriors
comes,
come
come
about.
F
No,
no,
no!
It's
it's!
The
actor
has
explained
to
us
numerous
times:
I've
been
there
yeah
yeah,
so
he
even
calculated.
If
your
membership
right
now
keeps
your
present
plan,
one
percent
is
worth
a
lot
right.
We're
at
57
years.
Conversation
is
a
membership
votes
to
keep
present
plan
for
absent
amendment
of
one
percent.
We
go
from
57
to
45.
and
that's
why
I
say
we
can't
calculate
he's
already
calculated
at
25
with
one
percent
more.
It's
only
worth
two
years
where
it
was
worth
12
years
or
in
the
year
at
57.
F
L
What
the
actuator
was
saying
there
Mr
Shopify,
is
that
when
a
plan
is
at,
for
example,
57
years
and
a
plan
is
at
20
years,
the
sensitivity
is
different
because
of
the
number
of
years,
but
our
plan
right
now
is
in
year
57.
Yes,
so
our
sensitivity
is
at
year
57.
So
if
I
put
one
percent
or
two
percent
or
three
percent,
it's
the
same
sensitivity.
So
what
I'm
saying
right
now?
That's
why
I'm
asking
the
question?
If
one
percent
is
bringing
us
two
years,
then
two
percent
will
bring
us
four
years.
K
F
A
correct
statement
because
the
census
activity
are
correct,
is
57
or
if
a
one
percent
gives
you
12
down
to
45.
so,
but
we're
not
we're
not
considering
the
changes
that
the
firefighters
might
make
on
plan
one
or
plan
two,
once
you
incorporate
those
plans,
the
sensitivity
changes
and
it
gets
down
to
either
33
or
or
25
that
sensitivity
changes.
So
when
we
get
to
33
and
the
firefighter
puts
in
one
percent,
it
goes
down
to
29.
as
opposed
to
one
percent
or
57,
which
made
a
12-year
difference
right.
F
L
A
L
M
A
J
Based
on
plan,
two
is
based
off
of
getting
you
2.67,
basically,
seven
percent.
We
do
it
through
benefit
cut
City,
Plus
2.67
we
get
to
25
years
again,
but
we're
saying
is
a
2.67
either
plan,
one
or
two,
because
if
the
members
go
to
plan
one,
the
idea
is
not
to
change
things
or
improve
benefits
that
gets
to
bring
down
that
expected
rate
of
return
where
it
should
be,
and
so
that
further
secures
the
pension
to
where
it
should
be.
J
If
the
membership
went
for
plan
two
plus
two
point:
six:
seven,
you
still
have
25
years.
If
the
membership
goes
for
plan,
one
plus
two
point:
six:
seven,
we
grew
up
under
25
years
and
then
the
board
turns
around
and
lowers
expected
to
return.
If
the
membership
decides
plan,
one
plus
one
percent
and
the
city
puts
2.67,
then
the
board
turns
around
and
really
we're
talking
about
fixing
certain
things.
Butch
staff
expect
everybody
to
return
where
it
should
be,
so
that
the
plan
can
sustain
in
a
healthy
basic
growing
pattern.
J
That's
that's
what
we're
looking
at!
We
understand
that
we're
going
to
make
cuts.
Well,
we
don't
know
where
the
membership
is
going
to
go.
Some
we're
hearing
the
firefighters
say
plan
one
where
your
swim
state
plan
two,
but
either
way
what
we're
saying
is
tie
it
to
a
plan
so
that
way
whatever
they
choose.
We
know
that
worst
case
scenario
will
still
be
at
25
years,
we'll
still
get
to
where
we
need
to
be.
J
So
if
the
membership
went
to
plan
to
we're
cutting
about
what
is
the
type
of
four
percent
4.45,
the
city's
putting
2.67,
we
didn't
ask
the
city
to
put
half
farming
or
the
plan.
Two
is
cuts
of
about
60,
something
percent
of
what
needs
to
be
done
because
we're
asking
the
city
for
2.67.
If
plan
one
goes
in,
it's
even
a
bigger
percentage.
J
F
B
A
J
B
J
J
C
And
I
think
with
our
initial
and
I
know
we're
just
having
a
discussion
right
now
and
you
have
a
counter
proposal
to
us
that
we're
kind
of
discussing,
but
that
was
our
intent
was
we
showed
our
intent
and
our
commitment
to
help.
But
we
want
also
want
to
make
sure
that
the
the
membership
is
also
committed
to
making
the
changes
that
need
to
happen
right.
B
J
J
And
the
proposal
is
coming
that
the
more
it
comes
from
our
end,
we
just
were
asking:
it
would
be
huge
cuts
if
we
just
did
it
all
once
on
the
fireman's
back,
so
that's
as
far
as
benefit
cuts
and
then
and
the
insertion
of
money.
So
we
know
what
we
need
to
cut
an
RM
we're
asking
the
city
for
that
contribution.
J
We're
asking
we
brought
it
forward
so
that
58
or
whatever
we
T8
or
agreed
to,
is
there's
going
to
be
a
pension
mode
and
that's
going
to
determine
where
a
lot
of
this
is
going
to
go.
So
a
TA
on
conditional
language,
pretty
much
guarantees
that
one
of
the
plans
will
be
voted
on.
That's
why
we
were
asking
you
can
bring
It
Forward.
C
E
F
C
To
make
sure
I'm
right
looking
at
the
right
one
and
then
we
need
you
know
when
we're
looking
at
the
Mallet
and
we're
looking
at
the
cuts
that
are
being
proposed.
We
need
a
little
bit
of
context
to
it
and
we're
not
looking
for
personal
details,
we're
just
looking
for
averages
or
like
how
it
is
by
rank.
H
C
H
H
F
H
F
C
E
F
F
C
A
J
A
C
H
E
C
So
this
is
kind
of
a
this
seems
like
to
be
a
conundrum,
because
the
city
is
looking
for
a
commitment
and
would
want
it.
You
know,
wants
to
make
sure
that
the
membership
is
going
to
be
committed
to
making
changes.
Yet
the
membership
wants
to
see
what
the
city's
committed
to
before
they
meet.
So
you
know,
there's
no
easy
answer
to
that.
C
C
E
N
E
K
I
I
F
K
L
C
B
B
F
L
I
A
I
I
End
I
think
it's
easier
to
pass
a
plan
knowing
that
what
we're
going
to
have
you
know
the
decision
you
know
help
us
out
with
you
know
the
end
of
the
day.
It's
a
partnership,
we're
both
responsible
for
this.
You
know,
pension
I,
think
you
know
our
members
can
make
a
better
informed
decision
when
it
comes
to
deciding
where
the
plan
winner
plan
two.
When
it
comes
to
hey,
you
know
what
well,
why
should
I
load
up
anytime?
You.
L
L
In
the
last
contracts,
going
back
to
2001,
we've
increased
about
seven
percent
on
the
prior,
the
after
88
employees
and
in
the
prior
employees
priority
we
did
about
another
1.45,
so
in
total
total
the
city
from
2001
to
current
we
put
in
about
8.53
percent
more
during
this
contract,
so
the
cities
are
working,
we
have
been,
we
have
been
doing
a
role
or
participating
on
it
and
we
put
in
8.53
in
in
this
time
additional
monies.
So
we
are.
We
are
aware
of
what
you're
saying
and
we
have.
We
have
been
active
in
this.
J
J
City
has
no
they're
aware,
we
we
make
sure
so
we've
given
the
City
Credit
Union.
So
we
understand
that
and
but
we
also
want
to
put
on
the
table
and
demonstrate
it
right
in
the
24
25
year,
career
I
first
thing
I've
been
doing
my
part
of
trying
to
get
this
under
control.
There's
a
bunch
of
people
here,
they've
been
doing
this
for.
L
E
D
L
A
J
J
E
N
A
N
A
C
I
C
E
H
C
N
C
C
And
the
issue
we
determined
that
the
issue
is
not
so
much
the
actual
approval
of
the
initial
exchanges,
because
that's
already
addressed
the
fire
stations.
District
Chief
captain
and
acting
Captain
already
have
notification
of
the
exchange
because
they
have
to
approve
it
correct.
So
the
the
issue
became
that
when
the
shift
exchanges
were
approved,
the
payback
date
must
be
stated
on
that
work
exchange
form,
but
there
was,
it
is
allowable
that
it
can
be
changed
as
needed
and
agreed
upon
by
the
employees.
C
So
those
changes
were
what
needed
to
be
with
the
supervisor
or
the
station
Captain's
needed
notification
of.
So
we
we've
just
clarified
the
language
to
state.
If
there
are
any
changes
to
the
initial
date
of
payback,
the
firefighters
must
notify
the
station's
District
Chief
captain
or
acting
captain
and
I.
Think
that
solves
the
problem
and
we've
prepared
it
for
a
tentative
agreement
and
I
have.
I
C
A
C
M
Into
a
conversation,
we
were
hanging
this
morning
this
concerning
article
for
we're
going
to
show
negotiating
authorities
4.3
the
rubbish
stayed
the
same
on
4.3
to
provide
services
for
the
Laredo
fire
department,
including
Panama
to
Fire
and
or
Emergency
Services
I
went
to
one
associate
representative
who
provide
opinions
and
voices
cities
designated
negotiating
representative
issues
in
any
advisory
capacity
in
an
advisory
capacity.
Only
during
the
negotiation
process.
The
proposed
also
an
addition,
since
it
was
brought
up
4.4
and
a
new
subsection
to
the
article.
M
J
So,
under
the
sections
that
was
mentioned
on
pretty
much
that
it
must
be
in
writing
or
basically
the
services,
some
of
the
entities
that
we're
currently,
whether
they're
considered
mousse
or
just
understandings,
multiple
or
not
in
writing.
So
what
we're
asking
is
that
they
would
be
in
writing
so
that
one
of
the
big
Parts
is
that.
J
It
requires
that
the
liability
who
has
a
liability
some
sections
state
is
there
is
no
contract
as
far
as
law
enforcement
that
the
city
without
an
example,
if
the
law
enforcement
agency
would
be
responding
to
Rio.
So
what
I
want
to
be
responsible
for
the
Civil
liability?
We
would
want
that
this
section
to
be
enforced
so
that
it's
in
writing
and
what
we
want
is
our
advisor
would
be
saying.
J
M
M
M
Pursuing
to
Laredo
fire
department
manual
and
as
did
and
as
dedicated
to
them
by
their
super
Superior
officers
in
this
we're
proposing
this
to
be
striked
and
leave
8.3
the
60
shifts
and
8.5
orders
and
directors
to
maintain
this
in
reality
is
just
reflecting
because
of
the
fact.
This
manual
has
been
basically
for
a
long
time
anytime
at
the
Sops
you're,
referring
to
there
being
a
Rewritten.
There's
gonna
be
constantly
basically
ever
changing
this
article.
C
Oh
well,
I
think
it
was
just
whatever
the
Sops
were
at
the
time.
That's
what
was
meant
and
I
think
that
in
the
Sops
there
is
a
provision
and
then
and
I
need
to
look
at
the
whole
thing,
but
I
believe
there's
a
provision
in
the
Sops.
It
says
that
there's
something
that
overrides
the
SOP
that's
been
negotiated
in
the
contract
and
the
contract
prevails.
So
something
like
that
and
we
need
to
I
need
to
look
at
that.
A
little
bit
closer
I.
I
Think
our
biggest
concerns
when
it
comes
to
you
know
that
that
right
there
395,
you
know
8.1
8.2.
At
any
point,
anybody
could
write
something
into
sop
and
it
would
become
the
I
guess
immune
arm
that
you
would
have
to
follow
as
far
as
you
know
not
be
including
to
be
overtime
paid
because
you're
doing
another
duty,
but
it's
in
the
in
the
policy,
but
you're
asked
to
do
something:
that's
out
of
your
you're,
normally
not
accustomed
to
do.
Okay,.
B
J
C
C
J
And
that's
why
we
pretty
much
a
Duties
are
listed
in
8.1
and
if
there
are
any
other
duties,
you
would
like
to
be
included.
Okay,
we
got
them
at
8.1
and
if
maybe
there's
no
issue,
there's
actually
we
just
added
two
week
one.
But
the
policy
manual
from
Chief
to
Chief
or
from
day
to
day
could
change
and
then.
C
J
8.1
gives
us
general
terms.
The
issue
is
with
this:
the
insertion
of
this
language.
Now
this
would
be
the
new
article,
so
whatever
it
is
of
the
manual
States.
So
it's
not
overriding
anything
manual.
So
if
some
of
those
articles
in
the
SOP
would
be
expanded
on,
then
it
would
be
potentially
could
change
out
the
the
we
don't
feel
it's
an
exhaustive
list.
What's
an
8.1,
the
general
terms.
J
C
Only
be
assigned
to
perform
duties
related
to
firefighting,
fire
prevention,
rescue,
Emergency,
Medical,
Service,
Salvage,
overhaul
work
and
maintenance
of
firefighting
equipment,
and
it
keeps
going
on,
but
I
mean
the
general.
It
says
related
to
firefighter
fire
firefighting,
fire
prevention,
rescue
and
Emergency
Medical
Service
that
that
would
Encompass
anything.
J
That
comes
under
Emergency
Medical,
Services
8.1
of
changing,
changing
out
the
tires
right
because
I'm
Chiefs
it
was
like
no
that
deals
with
a
fire
truck.
So
that's
your
job
from
there
it
would.
It
could
expand
to
oil
changes.
It
could
expand
to
certain
things
that
were
not
certified
for
and
maybe
get.
K
M
N
J
C
C
J
J
Under
the
wine
learning
rights,
if
you're
brought
in
under
investigation,
there's
options
right,
I
have
the
right
to
call
for
a
human
right
if
I
have
a
right
to
seize.
If
he
right
chief,
that
doesn't
allow
me
to
call
my
union
right,
I
have
a
right
to
season.
It
wouldn't
be
used
against
me
for
disciplinary
actions.
So,
though,
that
investigation
ties
in
a
possibility
of
incriminating
myself,
then
I
have
the
right
to
call
in
my
union
right
right.
So
they
kind
of.
K
M
C
We
will
take
these
and
we
will
work
on
counter
proposals
and
I
believe
that
we
have
provided
you
all
of
the
information
that
you
have
requested
from
the
last
meeting.
If
there's
anything
that's
still
pending,
let
me
know-
and
you
can
send
me
an
email
and
we'll
work
on
getting
that
I.
Have
the
requests
on
that
I'll?
Look
at
the
booklet.
I
may
need
help.
I'll
ask
her
students
to
make
sure
that
I
know
where
to
look
for
the
booklet
and
we
can
use
that
for
the
pension,
but
other
than
that.
C
M
M
K
M
J
L
L
M
L
M
L
F
L
I'm
not
using
the
roster,
because
the
roster
has
people
in
there,
but
in
actuality
it's
almost.
You
got
an
average
of
25
people
that
are
up
well.
I
can't
count.
I
can't
use
a
roster
because
around
so
so
once
I
take
the
you
know
and
I
didn't
even
get
to
that
calculation.
I
said:
okay,
if
I
need
to
have
three.
This
is
what
I
need
87..
L
L
If
I
just
look
at
this,
this
number,
the
difference
there
is
19
per
share,
so
that's
57.,
but
then
I'm
kind
of
seeing
what's
the
Manpower
now
I'm
looking
at
the
bodies
and
that's
why
I
came
to
40.
but
in
reality,
if
I
just
go
and
change
their
wording,
I
have
to
have
four
people
on
those
ladders.
Four.
L
The
mechanics
is
a
it's
part.
Two,
the
first
part
is
how
many,
how
many
is
that?
What's
the
minimum
right
now
on
those
vehicle
story,
so
any
which
aims
are
wording
on
the
contract
based
on
the
proposal
now,
I
need
to
have
four.
So
what's
my
difference
between
my
three
and
four
is
one
more
person
per
unit
which
we
have
19
units
times
three
shifts
so
because
then,
what
you're
talking
about
is
okay,
do
I,
take
those
57
people
from
admin
and
put
them
on
the
line,
or
you
can.
B
A
A
L
L
K
J
L
L
Okay-
and
that
was
a
logic
in
response
to
the
body
so
in
actuality-
was
57-
is
a
number,
but
I
was
using
48
to
be
conservative
because
those
again
are
new
hires.
Yes,
I
believe
that
I
had
there
was
a
new
hires.
That's
why
the
mind
is
so
high,
I,
never
posted,
because
if
not
you
go
back
the
same
thing
or
you're
going
to
get
those
extra
people.
Where
are
you
going
to
get
that
extra
body
to
put.
I
K
C
Then
we
end
on
a
positive
note,
with
two
Tas
I
think
we're
close
on
a
bench
and
we've
had
some
very
good
conversations
today.
I
know
and
I
agree
with
you.
We
have
some
difficult
issues
to
tackle
in
difficult
conversations,
but
you
know
I
think
we're
the
people
to
do
it
and
and
we'll
come
to
an
agreement.