►
From YouTube: Collective Bargaining Meeting 09/22/2022
Description
Collective Bargaining Meeting 09/22/2022
A
Good
afternoon
we're
opening
the
public
session
of
the
City
of
Laredo
and
the
Laredo
firefighters,
Association
local
872
collective
bargaining
session
for
2022..
Today,
September
22nd
2022
we're
opening
at
1
21
PM.
It
was
posted
for
1,
10
p.m,
and
I
have
passed
around
the
signature
pages
and
okay.
I
have
all
my
team
that
has
signed.
B
A
A
A
A
second
extension
for
consideration
from
the
city.
The
city
would
like
to
continue.
It's
good
faith
bargaining
with
the
fire
Union,
and
this
would
be
the
second
impasse
extension
agreement
pursuant
to
chapter
174,
which
is
this
statutory
ability
to
extend
the
agreement
15
days
at
a
time,
and
it
would
be
from
the
time
period
of
September
26,
which
would
be
day
Zero
and
then
the
15
days
would
end
on
October,
11,
2022.
A
A
A
A
And
the
amendment
here
is
actually
on
the
prior
cost
that
we
had
done
with
regard
to
the
pension
where
we
had
proposed
to
put
0.25
cents
for
your
or
0.25
percent
on
the
conditions
that
were
outlined
in
the
art
in
article
30
for
years,
one
two:
three
and
four
of
the
five-year
contract.
When
you
look
across
the
board
each
year
it
was
a
an
expense
of
105
409,
the
prior
one,
the
prior
total.
There
was
a
formula
error
and
so
that
it
showed
the
total
as
105
409.
A
It
didn't
total
up
to
five
years,
so
that
was
corrected
and
the
total
for
the
total
for
that
pension
shows
that
we're
that
additional
one
percent
spread
evenly
across
years,
one
through
four
of
the
proposed
contract
with
the
conditions,
would
actually
equal
1.486
million
dollars,
bringing
the
actual
total
to
the
amount
of
new
monies
that
we
have
placed
to
the
table
to
be
11
million.
Eighty
two
thousand
nine
hundred
and
seventy
six
dollars.
So
that
was
a
little
bit.
A
We
just
wanted
to
have
the
correct
costing
of
what
we've
placed
on
the
table
and
the
money.
The
estimated
monies
that
we've
placed
have
gone
up
a
little
bit
just
based
on
the
correction
of
that
formula.
So
we
just
wanted
to
point
that
out
and
give
you
give
you
that,
and
this
is
based
on
what
the
city's
proposals
are
currently.
B
D
A
B
B
A
On
top
of
that,
0.25,
then
we're
going
to
add
an
additional
0.25.
So
when
we
put
the
0.25
in
for
the
first
year,
we
have
to
continue
carrying
that
Across
The
Five-Year
contract,
so
that
when
we
add
the
addition,
the
additional
Point
25
percent
we
put
for
each
year,
it
would
total
a
a
one
percent
increase.
So
it's
not
just
a
one-time
payment
because
then
we
would
only
be
it
wouldn't
be
a
one
percent.
It
would
be
only
a
0.25
if
you
only
counted
it
so.
A
A
A
Well,
what
we
have
talked
about
that
and
we're
working
on
our
proposal,
but
but
the
when
we
were
talking
about
I
think
we
clarified
that
at
the
last
meeting,
when
we
were
talking
about
the
addition
of
the
one
percent,
it
would
also
the
one
percent
was
the
amendment
to
choosing
one
of
the
plans.
It
changes
the
benefits.
B
A
A
That's
why
I'm
saying,
because
we
have
we're
just
starting
the
meeting
and
one
of
the
things
I
wanted
to
do-
was
correct
the
concept
of
the
the
proposals
that
we
placed
on
the
table.
But,
as
we
discussed
with
regard
to
the
article
30
retirement
at
the
last
meeting,
the
expectation
is
that
the
member
from
the
city
is
at
the
membership.
A
The
the
years
of
amortization
that
the
actuary
said
needs
to
get
get
under
control,
or
at
least
at
30
or
under
30
years
correct.
So
we
had
that
discussion.
I,
think
that
both
sides
are
on
the
same
position
that
changes
to
the
benefits
need
to
be
made.
Firefighters
need
to
contribute
an
additional
one
percent
and
the
additional
condition
was
at
the
citizen,
the
citizen,
members
of
the
board,
be
citizens
who
are
not
tied
to
receiving
benefits
or
anybody
receiving
benefits
and
I
know.
A
There
was
a
question
on
that
as
to
whether
that's
legal
or
we
can
obligate
the
the
board
to
do
that,
and
the
answer
is:
there's
nothing
that
there's
nothing
legally.
That
would
prohibit
or
prevent
that
the
money
and
the
city's
contribution
we're
already
contributing
approximately
nine
million
dollars
to
the
pension
already.
This
is
in
addition
to
that
contribution.
B
A
Along
that
line,
we
had
the
city,
Side,
had
requested
information
on
retirement
and
the
benefits,
and
we
didn't
know
if,
if
you
had
that
prepared
to
present
to
us
today,
foreign
that
was
one
of
the
things
that
we
needed
to
look
at
and
consider
as
we're
preparing
our
counter
proposal
were
amended
proposal.
I
can't
remember
where
we're
at
on
that.
B
D
D
E
F
F
F
A
Cool
okay,
so,
let's
go
just
so
I
understand
what
the
columns
are,
for
instance,
on
the
first
one:
it
was
retiree
number
one
calendar
year,
2019
and
the
rank
was
a
captain
or
that
Captain
had
26.5
years
of
service
and
this
growth
gross
monthly
benefit
amount.
That
is
on
the
current
plan.
Is
this
one?
The
current
plan?
Okay,.
A
E
E
A
You're
making
trying
to
encourage
retention,
yes,
okay!
So
let's
talk
a
little
bit
about
before
we
go
into
the
number
exclude
over
time
except
premium
overtime,
so
premium
over
time
is
basically
the
mandatory
overtime
that
is
required
because
you
work
a
longer
shift
than
a
40
hour
shift.
Is
that
right,
yeah.
E
E
A
E
D
E
A
Is
that
the
the
it's
called
like
the
K
exemption,
or
something
from
the
federal
labor
standards
act?
Okay,
okay!
So
that's
what
you're
mean
you're
talking
about
when
you're
talking
about
premium
over
time
now
in
relation
to
the
total
amount
of
overtime
is,
do
you
have
a
guesstimate
or
a
range
as
to
how
much
of
a
percentage
of
the
total
overtime
the
premium
over
time
would
constitute?
Because,
if
you're
changing,
if
you're
taking
out
the
regular
overtime,
is
that
a
significant
amount
of
the
overtime
cost
as
re
related
to
the
premium
over
time?
A
A
G
B
G
B
B
A
Right
and
that's
why
we're
trying
to
understand,
because
you
know
when
a
person
I'm
not
a
firefighter
and
I'm,
not
subject
to
the
pension,
so
when
I'm
looking
at
it-
and
it
looks
like
okay,
it
excludes
over
time
except
premium
over
time.
What
does
that
really
mean
and
I'm
just
trying
to
I'm
trying
to
understand
and
make
sure
that
that
it
I
understand
that
the
premium
overhead
time
is
really
a
much
smaller
percentage
than
the
regular
overtime
that
y'all
are
trying
to
change?
Is
that
right.
D
C
C
A
B
A
B
A
E
A
A
A
E
E
E
E
E
I
know
it's
93,
so
it's
going
to
go
from
93
to
Max,
which
is
31
years
of
service.
It's
going
to
lower
to
30
years
on
one
I'm,
probably
29
or
28,
on
the
other
one.
Okay
that
will
max
out.
Some
will
continue,
working
because
15
minute
18
19
years
old,
so
even
when
they
max
out
at
30
31,
they
can't
leave
or
they
might
want
to
stay
for
the
drop
the
user
service
here
doesn't
show.
E
A
H
E
A
C
Not
in
cases
of
the
the
individual
to
stay
longer,
the
individuals
that
came
in
anywhere
below
the
age
of
22
right
away
from
18
to
the
age
of
21.,
automatically
you're
going
to
max
out
before
they
get
to
the
beginning
of
their
drop
age.
Because
right
the
plan.
Both
plans
are
stating
to
increase
it
to
53
at
the
beginning
of
dropped
to
55.
So
it'll
continue
to
pay
into
the
pension
fund
anywhere
from
51
and
53..
E
A
E
E
B
F
E
A
At
the
last
meeting
on
September
15th,
the
union,
we
presented
a
counter
on
this
and
the
union
countered
in
the
afternoon
a
4.3
I
think
we
were
both
on
the
same
page
with
regard
to
the
the
language,
the
clarifying
language,
and
it
doesn't
change
anything
other
than
it
makes
that
that
provision
more
clear
that
the
fire
Union
had
proposed
the
addition
of
a
fort
of
a
section
4.4
under
Article
4
and
that
read
the
City
of
Laredo
shall
comply
with
the
Texas
government
code.
Pursuant
to
intergovernmental
relations.
A
So
the
question
is
it's
not
so
much
just
because
it's
in
the
contract
doesn't
mean
that
we
have
that
we
don't
have
to
comply
with
the
the
statutes.
We
have
to
and
that's
why
the
city
is
a
legal
department
and
most
times
when
these
contracts
or
memorize
understanding
or
other
issues
are
or
negotiated
or
discussed
or
or
done
between
a
city
and
another
political
subdivision
or
entity,
it's
usually
vetted
through
the
legal
department.
A
That
is
always
going
to
be
covered
under
the
line
of
duty
and
with
the
city
policies.
If
you're
in
the
course
and
scope
of
your
employment,
that
would
have
mean
that
you
could
apply.
If
you
were
injured,
you
could
apply
for
workers
comp,
but
you
would
be
subject,
of
course,
to
those
processes
and
and
that
kind
of
that
process
that
you
have
to
go
through.
We
can't
interfere
with
that
process.
It
would
be
covered
by
if
there
was
any
sort
of
lawsuit
that
this
that
arose
out
of
some
sort
of
incident.
A
There
are
exceptions
within
the
Texas
government
code
on
intergovernmental
relations
when
somebody
or
when
we're
the
city
is
cooperating
or
providing
providing
services
such
as
emergency
services.
And
so
that's
why
you
know
the
chapter
is
not
very
easy.
There's
a
lot
of
different
exceptions,
there's
a
lot
of
requirements,
and
so
that
law
is
the
law
and
the
city
has
to
follow
it.
A
The
chief
and
the
and
the
city
has
what
they
have
committed
to
doing
is
looking
through.
All
of
these
kinds
of
mutual
AIDs
that
happen
and
identifying
that
whether
there
needs
to
be
a
written
agreement
or,
if
not
and
even
if
there
isn't-
and
it's
not
required
by
the
statute,
whether
that
would
be
to
the
benefit
of
the
city
and
its
firefighters
in
terms
of
the
fire
department,
for
instance,
under
chapter
771,
the
Texas
local
government
code
on
contract
requirements.
This
was
what
was
being
cited
by
the
union.
A
After
that
section
c
of
that
771.004
says
a
written
agreement
or
contract
is
not
required
and
it
has
certain
situations
in
an
emergency
for
the
defense
or
safety
of
the
Civil
population
or
in
the
planning
and
preparation
for
those
emergencies.
In
Cooperative
efforts
proposed
by
the
governor
for
the
economic
development
of
the
state
or
in
a
situation
where
an
amount
involved
is
less
than
fifty
thousand
dollars
and
there's
there's
some
other
exceptions
that
apply
to
different
situations.
A
The
statutes
are
written
so
that
you
have
to
figure
out
which
one
applies
to
a
certain
situation,
so
our
our
commit.
The
city's
commitment
is
always
to,
of
course,
follow
the
law
and
that's
why
we're
proposing
not
included
in
here,
because
then,
if
the
chapter
changes
or
they
you,
you
know,
the
legislature
says
hey,
let's
move
this
to
another
part
of
the
government
code
or
name
it
something
else,
and
we
would
have
to
do
that
in
the
contract
and
that's
not
the
intention.
I
think
the
intention
is
to
follow
the
laws.
A
So
we
have
proposed
to
leave
the
language
as
as
it
seems
it
with
the
union
and
the
city
have
agreed
on
4.3
and
not
put
in
4.4,
because
the
laws
are
the
laws
and
we
have
to
comply
with
them
anyway.
There's
there's
repercussions
and
there's
there's
remedies
and
there's
things
that
can
happen.
If
against
that,
would
the
city
would
be
liable
for
itself
if
the
laws
were
not
followed,
and
so
that's
that's
our
proposal
on
article
four.
E
E
A
It
comes
down
to
whether
it
was
something
that
was
within
the
course
of
scope
of
employment,
and
it's
something
that
you
were
sent
to
sent
to
go
do
by
your
supervisor
were
instructed
by
the
chief
or
whoever
the
designee
is
you
know
that
that
is
clear
evidence
that
it's
within
the
course
of
scope
of
employment,
and
this
you
know
if
that
became
an
issue
and
you
needed
the
city
to
say.
Yes,
we
sent
them
out
there
for
this.
A
That
would
be
something
that
the
city,
of
course,
will
cooperate
in
the
in
the
the
workers,
comp
process
or
even
an
appeal
if,
for
some
reason,
the
third
party,
administrator
or
PML
gets
it
wrong,
you
know
that's
what
the
processes
are
for
and
there's
some
due
process
rights
embedded
in
those
processes
to
be
able
to
appeal
such
things
like
that.
But
CML.
F
A
It
we
have
a
contractor
the
Texas
workers,
the
Texas
workers,
comp
statutes,
dictate
Texas
workers,
comp
processes
and
procedures,
and
we
have
a
third
party
administrator
that
we
have
a
contract
with
that
they
have
to
adhere
to
the
statutes
and
the
and
the
contract
within
the
city.
The
city
is
they're,
a
third
party
contractor
that
serves
the
city.
G
G
B
G
A
What
when,
when
would
there
be
a
situation
where
you
receive
a
response,
or
you
receive
a
call
and
you're
going
to
respond
to
something
outside
of
the
city,
but
you're
not
sure
whether
there's
a
an
agreement,
or
something
like
that?
Because
that
that
is
something
that
I
think
that
we
should.
We
should
address
and
make
sure
that
if
it's
not
something
that
is
an
emergency
and
cannot
be
anticipated,
which
is
what
the
law
allows
for
something
like
that
or
even
emergency
preparations.
A
We
don't
need
a
written
agreement,
but
that
that
the
city
management
and
the
department,
heads
and
the
department
is
aware
of
the
situation.
So
we
can
make
sure
that
if
you
respond
to
those
calls
that
it
is
within
the
course
of
scope
of
your
employment,
if
you're,
acting
as
a
firefighter
and
you're
responding
to
an
emergency
call.
So.
E
For
is,
this
is
like
an
example
enforcement
response
outside
to
counting
their
stipulations.
We
we've
been
told
that
law
enforcement
GPS,
so
the
question
systems
critical
assistance
for
one
of
their
own
things
that
we're
supposed
to
respond
to
in
the
responsibility,
the
other
one
we
have.
An
understanding
is
that
UIC.
E
E
When
we
stopped
at
the
limits-
and
we
didn't
go
to
County
warehouses
and
then
a
couple
of
weeks
later
about
annexed,
but
we've
started
to
see
that
standing
order
was
we
don't
provide
service
outside
the
county.
I
said
we
have
to
wait
for
an
order,
even
when
the
county
special
has
rolled
over
several
times.
E
It
was
in
our
County
outside
our
city,
there's
a
conversation
that
has
to
happen
to
choose
for
his
designated
for
their
City,
Administration
or
economy.
We
don't
know
the
process,
but
I
know
there's
a
process.
That
is
a
delay,
but
we
know
there's
a
process
on
the
MLB
there
in
place.
It's
just
these
other
entities
that
we've
been
told
that
we're
going
to
go
help.
We
don't
think
there's
a
mluence
okay.
E
A
A
D
F
C
A
A
A
A
Some
of
the
issues
with
regard
to
the
price
of
the
required
uniforms,
the
prize,
was
it
really
a
vendor
issue
that
is,
is
being
addressed
at
the
moment.
I
think
that
the
vendor,
as
I,
have
discussed
with
the
city
the
vendor
contract
is.
It
is
at
its
end
and
they're
addressing
that
issue
to
provide
a
vendor,
that's
going
to
provide
properly
priced
items
and
not
overpriced
the
items,
as
it
seems
that
the
vendor
may
have
we've
had
some
vendor
issues,
so
that's
being
addressed
in
the
administrative
side.
A
A
These
increases
at
all
to
the
base
pay
we're
proposing
a
lump
sum
in
the
for
of
a
five-year
contract
to
the
twenty
two
hundred
dollars
the
first
year,
but
for
the
years
for
year,
two
of
the
contractor
proposing
a
1.5
increase
year,
three
1.5
increase
year.
Four
one
point:
seven,
five
percent
increase,
and
in
year
five
a
two
percent
increase.
A
So
that's
a
for
a
total
of
in
not
even
including
the
the
lump
sum
payment
the
first
year,
but
that
is
a
two
three
four
five,
a
six
point:
seven
five
increase
to
the
base
pay
over
the
five-year
contract
yeah
and
in
addition
to
that,
we're
also
putting
the
the
conditional
additional
contribution
to
the
pension
for
a
total
of
1.4
million.
So
we
propose
to
leave
those
uniform
allocations.
The
same
on
18.3
there
had
been
an
issue
raised.
A
Currently
the
fire
chief
has
the
ability
to
require
address
a
Class
A
uniform
for
certain
special
occasions
and
that's
already
a
part
of
the
contract
and
that
failure
of
the
employee
to
have
the
dress,
uniform
or
the
work
uniform
in
good
condition
is
grounds
for
disciplinary
action.
It
seems
that
there
may
have
been
a.
A
That
this
just
clarifies
that
the
fire
chief
has
the
ability,
that's
what
the
main
wording
is.
So
we
just
wanted
to
clarify
that
and
discuss
that
in
18.4
the
union
had
proposed
to
add
to
the
official
classy
uniform,
10
issues,
and
you
know
so.
This
is
what
we're
proposing
and
I'm
going
to
tell
you
why
on
18.5
it
allows
if
the
fire
chief
shall
have
the
discretion
to
determine
when
to
wear
a
polo
shirt
and
as
Allowed
by
law
and
OSHA
standards.
A
Tennis
shoes
is
a
loud
classy,
uniform
items.
We
wanted
to
be
able
to
include
the
tennis
shoes,
but
the
problem
is
that
official
classy
uniforms
are
allowed
to
make
to
to
be
warned
during
emergency
responses,
and
the
issue
with
tennis
shoes
is
that
OSHA
standards
require
I,
don't
know
if
it's
a
steel,
toe
or
composite
toe
boot
or
I,
don't
know
if
it's
steel,
toe
or
but
there's
a
required
kind
of
shoe
that
you
have
to
wear
for
emergency
responses.
A
The
fire
chief
has
a
lot
I
think
he
has
allowed
10
issues
for
downtime
at
the
station.
This
is
a
classy
uniform.
Just
it's
not
not,
while
you're
responding
to
emergency
responses,
so
that's
why
we
propose
to
put
it
in
in
18.5
and
he
can
issue
if,
if
this
is
something
that's
agreeable
that
he
can
issue
that
tennis
shoes
were
allowed
during
the
downtime
at
the
stations
as
a
classy
uniform,
just
not
during
emergency
responses.
G
Is
it
there's
a
little
bit
of
history
on
18.3
I
know
there
is
a
current
policy
out,
but
the
the
card
Chief
has
Track
Time
Force.
As
far
as
you
know,
their
class,
a
uniform
I,
don't
think
he's
ever
argued
that
you
know
we
shouldn't
have
to
wear
them,
but
I
know
it's
specifically
states
that,
provided
that
the
city
does
purchase
as
one
of
the
biggest
things
I
think.
The
current
policy
is
trying
to
pull
the
firefighters
to
purchase
them.
The
uniform
alone
on
the
classes
over
six
seven
hundred
dollars,
yeah
yeah.
E
It's
putting
a
huge
burden
on
the
firefighter,
because
I
can
tell
you
when
you
come
in,
you
may
not
have
a
jacket
for
a
year
because
those
are
very
expensive
also,
so
everybody
buy
pants
and
shirts,
maybe
one
pair
of
boots,
and
that's
it
they're
out
of
money.
They
don't
even
have
money
for
a
jacket
and
in
the
following
year
to
ask
them
or
any
attachment
for
that
five.
Six:
six
hundred
seven
hundred
dollars
for
tax
code
hat
all
these
pins
and
Stripes
because
it
may
or
may
not
work
once
a
year.
A
G
A
C
Conversation
has
been
had
with
this
current
chief
and
the
prior
Chief
and
that's
where
the
understanding
has
been,
but
the
city
provides
the
initial
uniform
and
we
are
we're
deemed
to
upkeep
it
because,
as
we
rank
as
your
promotion
up,
the
jacket
changes
all
the
pins
change.
So
the
burden
on
the
firefighter
is
going
to
change
over
the
time
and
that's
where
we
Shield
that
burden.
So.
A
G
B
E
They
kind
of
just
trade
and
issue
stuff
like
us.
I
can
give
you
an
example,
one
of
the
guys
in
the
truck
the
battery
his
flashlight
was
stolen
at
a
call
or
total
vehicle.
Actually,
a
lot
of
people
were
there.
He
put
his
flashlight
down
to
help
package,
a
patient
put
them
with
church.
Here,
look
down,
flashlight's
gone,
he
comes
Chad
and
it's
a
refresherite
got
stolen,
drank
the
police
report.
Yes,
I
did
okay,
we'll
buy
one
next
year.
B
A
That
that
we're
not
proposing
to
change
what
18.3
says
you
know,
and-
and
we
just
wanted
to
to
discuss
that
I-
think
there
may
have
been
an
issue
on
the
on
the
May,
but
that
what
that
means
to
the
city
is
that
the
chief
has
the
ability
to
require
that
and
we're
not
proposing
to
change
anything
in
that
sentence.
It
says,
provided
that
these
uniforms
are
issued
by
the
city.
A
So
so,
if
that's
that
the
intent
was
not
to
change
that
or
to
require
to
add
an
additional
expense
to
the
firefighter,
if
that's
what's
already
given
in
the
current
contract.
Okay,
but
it
was
just
a
discussion
about
if
the
the
chief
has
the
ability
to
require
them,
and
we
we
just
want
to
make
sure
that
this
is.
This
has
already
been
in
the
contract
that
the
that
the
chief
still
can
utilize
this.
This
particular
ability.
G
A
Main
nothing
I
think
it
was
just.
We
needed
a
discussion
to
to
understand
what
may
means
and
I
and
from
the
city
Side.
It
means
that
he
has
the
ability
to
do
it.
So
it's
not
a
shell.
It's
not!
You
know
it's
it's
a
main,
it's
at
his
discretion,
so
you
may
have
a
chief
that
that
likes
the
class
A
uniforms
and
requires
them
at
more
occasions
than
another
cheap.
And
then
you
may
have
another
chief.
That
says
no
we're
not
going
to
do
class
A,
you
know,
and
it.
C
Just
gives
the
discretion
that
this
issue
has
been
brought
up
by
the
current
chief
by
the
previous
Fire
Chief,
and
it
was
always
always
under
understanding
like
he
does
have
the
response,
the
the
ability
to
require
it.
Okay,
with
the
understanding
that
the
Renaissance
was
supposed
to
be
provided
by
the
city.
So
we're
like
you
want
first
to
work,
there's
no
problem,
where's
our
where's,
our
uniform
and
that's
always
been
the
point
where
well,
that's
why
they
don't
have
it
because
we
don't
they
don't
want
to
get
it.
A
A
C
C
Actually
donated
to
the
firefighters
that
passed
away
and
the
culture
that
that
was
never
replaced.
That
was
never
given.
That
was
never
so
that's
you
know,
anywhere
from
150
to
up
to
300
I
believe
on
the
code
that
he's
just
giving
in
the
way
out
of
his
out
of
his
own
allotment,
so
I
say
nothing
has
been
provided
concerning
the
classic,
but
we
never
had
an
issue
with
the
wording
of
it,
but
the
changing
of
the
wording
could
always
change
the
understanding
of
what
was
already
in
play.
I
So
on
18.5,
sorry,
when
we
added
the
the
athletic
shoes
that
was
marked
so
that
guys
could
have
something
to
wear
to
work
out
there
at
the
station.
There
is
already
policy
in
place
where,
if
you
go
out
to
a
call,
whether
it's
an
EMS
called
you're
on
the
engine
or
you
have
to
wear
your
PPE
at
all
times
right,
you
have
with
tech
Chan.
We
have
the
irregular
bunker
gear.
H
J
J
A
F
H
C
E
H
I
F
A
A
B
A
And
so
we,
and
then
you
know
or
they're,
not
or
a
supervisor
says
hey
you're
running
out
of
here
to
emergency
response,
so
you're
wearing
your
athletic
shoes.
No,
you
need
to
put
on
your
boots
and
they're
going
to
file
a
grievance
saying.
Well,
no,
it
says
that
my
athletic
shoes
are
an
official
classy
uniform.
You
know
those
are
the
kinds
of
things
we're
trying
to
avoid.
I,
don't
think
we
don't
want
to
create
those
problems.
I
Yeah
so
I
have
the
uniform
policy
here
right
and
it
does
say
all
blue
shorts
tennis
shoes
Department,
approved
t-shirts.
Maybe
we
weren't
at
the
station
after
business
hours
right
while
responding
to
emergencies,
whereas
PPE
personal,
personal,
protective
equipment
or
bunker
gear
is
to
be
utilized
person.
My
Personnel
May
wear
issue
t-shirts
under
the
gear
and
there
and
after
when
dressed
down
order
is
issued
by
the
scene
supervisor.
Okay,
so
it
you
know,
we
have
policy
against
wearing
any
kind
of
tennis
shoes
that
calls.
B
I
I
E
B
E
We
will
because
we've
already
been
doing
it
so
unless
you
came
up
because
this
year,
before
our
who
were
able
to
purchase,
they
changed
that
uniform
list
and
it
changed
what
we
have,
because
you
know
we
wear
navy
blue,
not
every
maker
has
the
same
navy
blue,
so
our
pantsing
shirts
don't
match
up
they're,
always
changing.
We
go
from
5
11..
Now
you
use
this
other
brand.
I
use
this
other
brand
and
you
keep
changing
the
brand
so
that
navy
blue
keeps
changing.
B
E
And
so
they
they
narrowed
down
that
list
making
it.
If
you
already
liked
a
particular
brand,
the
way
it
fit
and
they've
changed
it
to.
Oh,
just
for
this
other
one
now
and
I
ability
to
have
that
other
one
as
well,
and
then
they
took
off
the
shoes
for
some
reason
off
that
list
and
that's
where
things
just
became
an
issue
this
year
that
we've
had
those
shoes
forever.
E
And
just
like,
we
have
maybe
like
firefighter
business,
another
issue
to
us,
they're
on
that
list
and
they're
400
boots,
but
they're
a
lot
more
comfortable,
easier
to
take
off
and
on
so
the
guys
go
ahead
and
do
that
and
that's
how
we
the
whole
uniform
thing
comes
into
playwork
and
forces
to
buy
something.
We
don't
already
have,
because
it's
going
to
blow
the
budget
and.
G
I
think
the
practice
with
the
uniforms
that
we've
been
following
throughout
you
know
the
past
couple
years:
I
guess
since
I
came
in
it
has
worked,
I
mean
we're
just
suggesting
that
we
maintain
that
same
policy
as
part
of
being
able
to
order
shoes
and,
as
far
as
when
it
comes
to
the
class,
a
uniform
you
know
follow
has
practices
you
know
and
do
the
same.
You
know
whether
this
the
chief
has
the
ability
to
to
tell
us
to
wear
a
Passaic,
but
as
long
as
the
city
purchases,
so
to
keep
with
past
practices.
A
A
A
A
A
I
was
just
looking
at
my
notes:
I
apologize,
so
we
had
proposed
no
changes
to
article
31
on
September,
15,
3,
P.M
and
the
union,
or
excuse
me
on
September
15
10
a.m.
In
the
union,
counter
proposed
with
article
31
and
adding
a
31.3
employee
has
the
option
to
exercise
his
or
her
Wine
Garden
or
guarantee
rights.
We're
proposing
that
we
don't
to
leave
it
the
same
that
we
don't.
That
is
actually
not
required.
A
A
So
there
could
be
an
instance
where
winegarden
or
Garrity
are
either
discussed
or
overruled
or
or
made.
You
know
interpreted
some
different
way
and
results
in
a
different
case
name,
and
so
we
don't
want
anything
to
impair
those
Supreme
Court
case
law
rights
that
are
already
established.
The
city
has
to
follow
them.
The
employee,
the
firefighter
and
the
employee
has
those
rights
and
I
know
I,
don't
want
anything
to
give
the
impression
that
those
are
not
their
rights
in
the
contract.
A
We
can
have
this
discussion
at
the
table
that
yes,
winegarden
and
Garrity
rights
are
are
rights
that
the
employee
has
and
the
city
recognizes
them
and
will
honor
those
rights
and
that
the
city
has
in
all
its
practices
and
procedures,
honor
those
rights-
and
that's
that's
our
proposal.
Do
you
have
any
questions
on
that.
A
A
A
There's
a
couple:
that's
what
before
we're
gonna
need
to
caucus,
because
those
are
the
articles
that
I
have
the
counter
proposals
that
we're
doing
right
now.
But
we
do
have
some
items
for
discussion
before
we
do
go
into
caucus
or
if
I
don't
know.
If
you
have
counter
proposals,
the
city
in
preparing
its.
A
So
in
that
matter,
what
what
the
city
is
looking
for
is
we're,
anticipating
a
counter
proposal
on
article
16,
the
ad
pays
the
percentage
ad
Pace.
More
specifically,
we
had
a
discussion
about
that
at
the
last
meeting
and
we,
the
the
union,
was
going
to
go
back
and
reevaluate
that
that
article
and
even
if
what
we're
looking
for,
is
a
counter
proposal,
or
at
least
some
discussion
on
that
article,
so
that
we
can
address
that
issue.
A
A
and
then
separately,
so
we're
looking
for
those
two
articles
in
with
regard
to
the
economic
issues
on
a
separate
note,
I
know
that
we
have
been
discussing
an
outside
employment
policy
that
the
chief
had
placed
out,
but
that
had
been
kind
of
pulled
back
and
was
being
revised
and
vetted
by
legal
and
in
discussions
with
the
Union.
On
that
my
understanding
and
I
don't
have
the
specifics.
A
But
my
understanding
is
that
there
is
a
current
grievance
that
has
been
filed
on
that
that
and
it's
pending
and
it
is
and
that
the
response
deadlines
are
running
and
I
think
that
it's
at
the
Chiefs
level,
the
fire
chief
level.
Correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
it's
at
the
chief
level
and
the
deadline
is
sometime
next
week.
Is
that
correct?
A
So
what
the
city
is
asking
is
that,
since
we're
here-
and
we
have
this
open
table
for
negotiations
and
and
I,
do
understand
that
that
discussions
between
the
city
management
and
the
union
have
been
happening
with
regard
to
the
revision
of
of
such
policy
and
possibly
of
almost
a
some
Maybe
be
coming
to
an
agreement
on
on
what
what
that
policy
is
going
to
wind
up
being.
The
city
is
proposing
that,
in
light
of
the
ability
to
discuss
this
at
the
table
and
and
address
this
through,
the
collective
bargaining
agreement.
A
We're
we're
here
at
the
table,
so
it
would,
it
would
toll
or
stop
the
running
of
the
response,
and
if
so,
if
we
cannot
do
remedy
it
or
resolve
it
here
at
the
table,
then
once
once
these
negotiations
end
or
we
wind
up
in
a
contract,
but
that
issue
is
not
resolved
and
I
always
try
to
resolve
those
any
kind
of
grievances
that
are
pending
with
this
collective
bargaining
agreement.
That
then,
once
we
determine
that
the
deadlines
will
continue
to
run.
It
will
just
pick
up
where
it
left
off.
A
It
doesn't
start
over
or
anything
like
that,
but
we're
just
we're
asking
for
an
abatement
right
now,
so
we
can
have
that
discussion
possibly
resolve
this
without
without
having
to
use
two
separate
processes
utilize.
What
we
have
here,
try
and
address
it
within
these
negotiations
and
and
then
that
way
we
can
try
to
efficiently
and
and
collaboratively
resolve.
It
I
know
that
there's
been
discussions
that
are
happening.
B
A
You're
not
gonna,
because
we
were
just.
We
were
just
discussing
exchanges
last
meeting
right.
We
had
an
article
where
we're
discussing
exchanges
and
what
was
allowed
Etc
and
what
the
contract
says.
So
my
ask
for
any
pending
Grievances
and
and
please
bring
them
all
up
to
so
I
know
about
the
in
the
outside
employment
policy.
Grievance
now,
you're
telling
me
about
the
memo.
Is
it
the
outside
employment
policy,
but.
A
E
Yes,
okay,
so
so
there
it
redefines
exchanges
and
paybacks,
and
then
it
also
defines
what
we
can
do
and
it
basically
limiting
it
to
what
I
can
do
on
my
day
off
as
far
as,
if
I,
if
I
make
an
exchange
or
I
get
a
Payback
purchase
child
or
an
exchange
really
he's
trying
to
make.
It
only
do
for
educational
enrichment,
community
service
so
or
a
personal
matter.
But
so.
A
Let
me
so
let
me
let
me
give
you
the
reasons
why
we're
asking
for
an
abatement
and
that
and
how
an
abatement
of
these
grievances
will
not
neces
will
not
hinder
the
process.
It
won't
stop
your
grievance.
It
won't
affect
your
due
process
with
regard
to
going
through
these
grievances,
but
what
it
does
do
is
it
allows
us
to
have
the
discussion
about
what
the
contract
does
and
does
not
allow
or
what
what
the
contract
Provisions
require
and
if,
for
instance,
exchanges.
A
So
that
is
our
ask
that,
and
that
has
always
been
a
practice
that
I
have
employed
in
municipalities
and
counties
across
the
state
that,
when
contract
negotiations
are
going
on
and
there's
grievances
with
regard
to
contract
Provisions,
this
is
actually
the
perfect
place
to
address
those
and
if
we
need
to
fix
something
within
the
contract
or
clarify
something
as
that.
That's
what
this
is
for
clarify
something
in
the
contract
that
we
do
it
now
and
we
we
use.
We
utilize
this
this
procedure
without
affecting
or
hindering
the
grievance
process
in
the
due
process.
A
So
that's
what
we're
asking
we're
asking
to
have
these
discussions
at
the
table
and
resolve
them
through
this
collection
bargaining
without
any
punishment
or
detriment
or
any
kind
of
consequence
to
the
grievant
or
you
know
if
you
filed
agreements,
it
won't
affect
your
your
position
or
your
ability
to
grieve
it.
Everybody
each
party
would
retain
their
claims
defenses,
but
nothing
changes
it
just
basically
it
just
pauses
it
for
a
moment
so
that
we
can
discuss
it
and
see
if
it's
something
that
can
be
resolved
through
the
contract
negotiation
and,
if
not
to
just
move
forward.
A
G
That's
what
we're
asked
when
it
comes
to
the
Union's
point
of
view.
You
know
we
discussed
this
policy
with
the
fire
chief.
You
know
maybe
three
weeks
ago
or
so,
and
we
did
mention
the
stuff
that
we
we
we're
not
I,
guess
in
agreement
with,
and
he
did
say
he
was
in
a
you-
know,
pump
out
a
new
policy
that
week
you
know
on
our
side.
We
haven't
seen
anything.
You
know
they
haven't
moved
on
it.
You
know,
so
we
just
can't
keep.
H
E
A
Concern
my
understanding
is
I'm
not
involved
in
the
specific
grievances
or
the
discussions
they've
been
having,
but
when,
when
I,
you
know
when
I've
been
briefed
about
it,
my
understanding
is
that
the
Grievances
that
are
pending
are
being
taken
into
consideration.
The
there
has
been
no
enforcement
of
of
any
policy
or
any
any
memorandum,
so.
A
E
E
Having
these
discussions,
it
came
out
on
August
16th.
We
fought
those
grievances
and
those
mandates.
Like
you
said,
there
was
a
mandate
of
turning
your
form
by
September,
1st,
okay
and
it
was
enforced
on
every
shift.
District
she's
going
around
say
she
was
picking
those
up.
Okay,
some
some
guys
received
approvals.
Some
of
this.
H
Didn't
you
got
that
and
again
we're
not
saying
with
this
abatement
that
your
claim
or
your
agreement
goes
away.
All
we're
asking
is
that
if
he
put
on
hold
or
on
pause,
while
these
negotiations
are
happening
and
if
we
get
nowhere,
the
negotiations
are
over
you're
still
going
to
have
every
right
to
follow
your
grievance
that
that's
the
only
they
should
continue
with
it
to
continue
with,
because
having
a
grievance
in
the
midst
of
all
these
negotiations
might
send
everything
back
and
all
this
hard
work
would
be
for
nothing.
G
And
and
I
think
the
the
grievance
process
of
the
example
time.
You
know
it's
at
the
chief's
desk
right
now.
You
know
he
has
certain
time
limits,
but
after
that
you
know
it
gets
the
city,
manager's,
dose
and
I,
think
it's
12
or
12
business
days.
You
know
so
you're
talking
about
you
know
weeks.
You
know
three
four
weeks
still
as
far
as
the
previous
process,
you
know
the
way
it
goes
forward.
You
know
I
think
without
having
to
go
through
an
abatement.
We
have
ample
time
here
at
the
table.
F
A
F
We
need
to
pull
them
back,
but
at
the
end
of
the
day,
it's
still
going
live
through
this
process
and
we're
going
to
go
probably
deep
until
October
by
the
time
that
that
even
reaches
where
we
need
to
get
it
to
so
it
could
occur
so
there's
still
process
and
set
the
fire
cheese
desk
is
going
to
go
to
the
city
manager's
desk,
there's
a
certain
days
in
between
that
they're
going
to
be
Memphis.
Are
we
going
to
be
here
still
negotiating
then.
F
A
What
that's
what
I'm
saying
that?
If,
if
we
can,
if
there's
an
issue,
and
it's
directly
related
to
the
contract
and
there's
somewhat
sort
of
misunderstanding-
that
we
need
to
clear
up
that
misunderstanding
here
and
understand
on
both
sides
with
the
contract
intends
to
say
or
intends
and
that
we
resolve
it
here
at
the
table
before
even
having
to
go.
C
The
article
the
Articles
have
come
up
that
we've
talked
about
is
in
direct
correlation
with,
with
that
with
agreeances
on
both
the
memo
and
the
SOP
that
came
out
the
thing
about
the
abatement
so
after
the
contract
is
signed.
If
we
get
to
address
it
or
not,
if
wording
changes
is
going
to
change
the
because
of
clarification,
it's
going
to
change
the
meaning
of
the
article
and
it's
going
to
throw
out
the
past
practice.
So,
whatever.
C
A
B
A
When
you
file
agreements
on
a
contra
on
an
old
contract
that
grievance
becomes
a
moot
for
the
new
contract
right
and
that's
why,
when
we,
when
I
sign
a
new
contract
and
I
get
a
contract
approved,
you
don't
want
to
start
off
the
bat
with
agreements
already.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
we
we
address
that
situation
before
we.
You
know
before
we
start.
A
We
want
to
start
with
a
professional
contract
without
grievances,
because
we
want
there
to
be
an
understanding
as
to
what
this
contract
is
when
we
started
you
know
and,
and
that
just
sets
off
on
the
wrong
foot,
because
if
we
can't,
if
we
can't
resolve
that
with
the
new
contract,
then
you
know
where.
Where
are
we
at
with
the
new
contract?
You
know
I
think,
because
the
the
Grievances
are
issues
that,
where
that
you
are
having
or
that
that
you're
claiming
are
a
violation
of
the
contract,
we
need
to
fix
those.
J
Historically,
I
was
recommendation,
or
maybe
we
all
are
saying
the
same
thing
or
maybe
not
historically,
when
we
get
to
the
article,
and
maybe
we
can
push
those
articles
forward,
come
to
an
agreement
and,
at
the
same
time,
sign
off
on
the
Grievances
at
that
point,
whatever
the
agreement
is
is
what
normally
would
go
on
this
new
article,
so
we
sign
off
on
them,
and
the
Grievances
will
pretty
much
be
resolved
at
that
point.
That's
what
we
want
to
be
able
to
do,
not
necessarily
that
the
contract
will
be.
J
G
I
think
last
meeting
we
we
signed
off
on
the
exchange,
payback
policy
right
and
I.
Think
you
know
it's
something
that
we
could
all
agree
that
maybe
that
policy
could
be
pulled
back
because
and
and
that
policy
would
just
say
you
know
what
you
can
use,
what
you
can
do
with
the
exchanges
and
paybacks
you
know
and
and
the
extent
that
they
can
be
paid
back.
So
I
think
you
know
so.
A
Yeah
we
need
to
look
at
because
I
think
that
we,
that
was
which
one
was
that
one
article
10
yeah
so
so
we
had
tentatively
agreed
to
article
10
right
generally
agreed,
of
course,
meaning
that
it's
tended
upon
upon
the
agreement
of
the
entire
contract.
But
yes,
I
think
that
if
we
tenderly
agreed
that
to
that
article
and
there's
still
agreements,
we
need
to
just
on
that
article.
Then
we
need
to
resolve
with
that.
B
A
C
A
C
Already
agreed
to
it,
it's
the
outside
of
the
outside
party,
that's
actually
the
still
in
confrontation,
because
the
the
work
has
been
done.
It's
been
revised,
we've.
Let
them
know
it's
still
not
out
to
see
exactly
what
is
if
it
is
in
violation
or
not.
If
we
can't
see
it-
and
we
are
returning
agree
to
something
like
that
for
now
administrations
liable
to
under
this,
what
you're
asking
us
for
us
to
stop
our
grievance
to.
A
A
You
brought
it
up,
but
we
haven't
discussed
the
grievance
and
if
we're
looking
for
the
policy,
we
need
to
discuss
the
policy
here.
Then
let's
pause,
the
the
let's
pause
the
process
and
bring
up
either
maybe
have
a
subcommittee
on
it
or
something,
but
that's
something
that
we
need
to
discuss.
You
know,
because
what
we're
doing
here
is
we're
spinning
wheels
here
and
oh.
G
F
A
But
the
request
from
the
city
is
that
we
Abate
the
the
grievances,
meaning
that
we
just
pause
them
with
no
consequence
to
the
grievance
or
the
process,
and
we
try
to
resolve
it
and
when
we
sign
off
on
the
contract
or
the
article
that
we
that
it
resolves,
it
I
think
I
think
that's
the
way,
because
if
there's
some
clarifications
or
some
something
that
we
need
to
address
in
the
article,
it
needs
to
be
done
now.
You
know
in
fact,
and
rather
than
I,
don't
want
to
sign
a
contract,
and
then
we
get
agreements.
A
Just
talk
about
it
in
caucus
and
there's
another
distinction
that
I
want
to
make
is
that
we
still,
the
city,
still
maintains
its
management
right
to
have
policies
right
to
to
manage
the
department
and
assignment
right
of
assignment
and
all
this
other,
the
the
management
rights
that
are
not
given
away
in
this
contract,
and
so
the
city
has
the
ability
to
create
a
policy
but
you're
right.
This
policy
cannot
be
in
violation
of
what
the
obligations
are
within
the
contract
and
that's
what
we
want
to
sit
down
and
talk
about.
I
As
far
as
the
policy
we
have,
we
follow
policies
that
they
release
and
everything
coincides
with
the
contract
as
long
as
it
doesn't
and
we're
on
the
same
page.
Okay,
we
want.
We
want
us
to
for
this
to
be
followed
right.
When
you
start
deviating
and
creating
policy
in
a
tyrannical
I
guess
the
word
tyranny.
E
Okay,
changing
how
many
you
can
do
is
the
contract
reciprocity
says
we
can
do
five
exchanges,
the
chief
redefine
that
says
five
exchanges
and
I
mean
Android.
So
now
we're
limiting.
So
if
I
do
five
changes
every
month
right
that
I'm
entitled
to
when
am
I
going
to
pay
this
other
person
back.
If
I
keep
asking
for
five
five
right.
E
A
E
F
E
Met
the
next
day
or
two
so
we'll
come
back.
If
we
haven't
come
back,
we
found
those
Grievances
and
then
I'm,
aware
of
the
policy
that's
been
working
on.
It
looks
acceptable
to
everyone,
but
the
memo
hasn't
been
touched
hasn't
been
addressed.
That's
why
there's
two
differences
on
it
and
there's
that
deadline.
You
see
here
at
the
table,
but
here
at
the
table
we
never
come
to
the
table.
You
you
we've.
A
Been
at
the
table,
excuse
me:
we
have
been
at
the
table
every
week,
like
I
said
we
have
the
interim
Deputy
city
manager.
We
have
the
HR
Director,
we
have
the
IT
director,
we
have
the
interim
budget
director
and
we
have
the
first
assistant
City
attorney.
We
have
a
large
city
to
run
right,
so
we
have
committed
to
doing
this
and
the
one
time
that
that
I
canceled
was
a
personal
reason
and
I
hope
that
you
understand
that
I
don't
understand
like
if
something
happened
to
your
family.
A
Because
that's
when
we
were
available
because
we
wanted
committed
to
meeting
here
and
we
committed
to
making
this
a
productive
session
so
the
time
that
we
could
meet
because
our
city
leaders
also
have
obligations,
are
that
we
we
could
meet
at
110.,
and
we
had
been
sitting
here
and
meeting
since
since
about
we
were
sitting
at
the
table
at
110.
We
had
printer
problems.
We
started
the
public
session
as
soon
as
and
we
had
already
done
stuff.
So.
B
E
We're
we're
here
to
stop
my
grievance
and
I.
Don't
see
the
point
to
it,
I
mean
if
these
things
are
already
done,
and
it's
at
the
fire
chief's
table
within
where
you
can
choose
to
remedy
the
thing
put
out.
The
policy
next
week
shows
the
policy
next
week
or
we
just
keep
going
through
the
agreement
process.
I
mean
why.
Why
are
you
asking
us
to
put
a
pause
on
something.
F
J
B
J
B
B
J
H
We
discussed
this
already
and
we've
been
we've
even
come
to
terms
and
we've
even
had
people
from
your
side,
talk
to
us
and
say
well
what
about
this
exception?
We've
taken
it
under
consideration
and
we
are
making
those
changes
there
are.
There
are
changes
being
made
to
address
your
concerns,
Mr
chocolate
that
are
that
are
directly
with
your
grievance?
H
I
We
can
make
sure
you're
right
you're
right.
What
you're
saying
is
correct.
We
already
T8
it
right,
we
already
T8
what
we
already
cheated
right.
We
already
discussed
it.
We
already
you
we
are
all
on
the
same
page
as
far
as
what
defines
or
or
what
the
what
is
it,
the
exchanges
and
paybacks
also
right
what
we're
finding
or
what
we're
grieving
is
the
fact
that
you
can't
go
back
and
and
and
try
to
redefine
or
change
just
for
your
definition
right,
which
is
the
fire
chiefs.
I
B
E
C
Because
one
of
them
is
from
on
my
behalf,
what
I
asked
for
Remedy
or
adjustment
shot
is
to
receive
no
memos
and
policies
pertain
to
secondary
employment
and
bring
it
to
the
table.
So
this
is
what
we
want.
It's
a
by
putting
a
pause
to
it.
It
still
has
a
memo,
has
good
policy
and
you're
still
trying
to
change
the
language
on
the
contract.
C
J
C
The
thing
is,
we
don't
need
to
have
the
memo,
and
this
will
be
out
at
all.
We
can
we've
already
addressed
a
good
amount
of
that
language
entering
the
paybacks,
which
even
a
language
that
you
you
have
proposed
to
change
until
we
explain
the
difference
of
it.
So
the
language
itself
that
that's
a
that's
affecting
has
already
been
here
and
we've
already
addressed
it
I
understand
we're
in
talks
but
you're
asking
me
to
pause,
a
procedure
that
we
already
put
in
play
because
we
still
haven't
seen
anything
come
forward.
A
I
A
I
C
F
A
What
I
propose
is
that
we
that
can
be
a
subcommittee
that
can
meet
without
having
to
post
that
we
don't
need
a
quorum.
We
don't
need
to
post
for
that.
Have
a
subcommittee
of
the
legal
department
and
the
fire
chief,
if
necessary
and
and
whoever
the
representatives
are,
so
that
when
we
we
can
utilize,
we
if
we
can
be
resolved
then
that
it
can
be
resolved
in
in
any
issues
that
we
can
have
the
public
meeting
on
with
regard
to
clarifying
any
kind
of
language.
So.
A
G
Well,
we
did
for
the
last
time
it
didn't
have
any
changes
to
it,
but
we've
been
talking
to
our
members
and
and
it's
something
that
had
been
throwing
around
and
you
don't
have
anything
written.
It's
a
lengthy
article,
I
guess
and
we
might,
we
probably
won't
have
anything
to
date
as
far
as,
but
it's
something
that
we
could
have
a
discussion
on.
Okay,.
A
G
A
A
A
A
Do
you
have
any
proposals
to
present
I
do
have
some
questions
a
couple
of
questions
on
the
retirement
data,
so
whenever
I
don't
know
how
you
want
to
do
that,
if
we
want
to
do
that
now,
okay,
we'll
start
with
I
just
need
I
was
I'm
really
confused.
As
to
you
said
that
one
of
the
changes
in
both
plan
a
and
plan
B,
is
to
raise
the
drop
age.
I
really
don't
understand
what
the
drop
means.
A
E
Currently,
you
have
to
have
21
years
of
service,
okay,
the
age
and
that's
the
minimum
and
age
51.
to
I.
Guess
you
could
say,
start
your
drop
but
you're
not
tied
to
it
to
a
number.
Once
you
root
your
retirement
age
and
I,
said
age
53,
you
can
drop
back
two
years
or
a
few
months,
it's
up
to
you,
but
it's
basically
a
lump
sum
payment
of
what
the
pension
would
have
paid.
You
had
you
retired
six
months
ago,
two
years
ago,
Max
two
years,
but
it's
a
lump
sometimes
that
they
pay.
You.
E
And
it's
based
on
months.
Yes,
so
you
could
ask
for
one
month
lump
sum
payment,
six
months,
eight
months
up
to
24
months,
but
you
have
to
be
older
than
51
years
and
more
than
21
years
of
service.
And
what
that
does.
Is
you
get
that
lump
sum
payouts
and
that
those
months
get
eliminated
from
your
calculation
said.
E
A
E
So
now,
whatever
promotion
or
pay
increase
is
not
in
your
final
average
of
what
you
would
have
gained
those
two
years,
and
now
you
were
looking
back
three
years
or
four
years
from
that
26
year
service
from
that
point
back
becomes
your
calculation
of
your
final
average
okay,
so
there's
a
reduction
on
your
monthly
payout
and
it
usually
about
500
per
pension.
If.
A
B
B
A
C
A
E
Maybe
you
accumulate,
increases
rank
structure,
going
upward
where
you
get
paid,
increase
and
stuff
like
that.
So
just
every
time,
there's
a
change,
there's
a
snapshot
of
what
was
there
because,
except
when
you're
hired
you're
promised
a
certain
set
of
benefits
right
and
those
benefits
can
change.
Those
were
promised
to
you
so
they're
there
they
have
a
Cadet
class
right
now.
Those
benefits
are
there,
but
eventually
the
new
benefits
are
going
to
outweigh
the
benefits
of
the
old
and
they
get
to
choose.
The
actor
actually
tells
you,
whichever
one's
better
okay.
A
E
If
they
don't
take
a
drop
in
the
retired
normal,
then
they
will
look
at
that
snapshot,
December,
30th
or
31st
December
31.,
so
December
31st
snapshot.
It
will
look
at
your
benefits
then,
and
compared
to
mentioned
two
days
later.
They
will
compare
them.
Okay
and
the
new
calculation
is
going
to
be
without
overtime.
So.
E
E
E
G
A
Yeah
and
that's
that's
all
I'm
trying
to
understand
because
it
you
know
when
you
look
at
it
and
you're
saying
oh
we're
voting
on
a
plan
and
it's
going
to
change
the
plan,
the
it
doesn't
automatically
change
it
for
everybody.
That's
why
when
I
said
transition
period,
there
may
be
a
better
word
for
it,
but
that
the
old
calculation
is
still
going
to
be
available
to
certain
retirees
or
or
they
have
the
option
of
taking
the
old
calculation
versus
the
a
new
calculation
right.
A
Yes
right,
but
people
who
are
going
to
retire
in
this
next
year
are
going
to
retire
because
of
the
benefit
plan,
changes
they're
going
to
retire
because
they
want
to
preserve
and
retire
with
the
benefit
under
the
old
calculation
right.
Okay
and
did
the
actuary
or
anybody
else
do
an
analysis
of
how
quickly
the
bit.
The
change
in
benefit
plans
is
going
to
yeah
impact,
the
the
amortization
rate
or
years.
E
E
E
Look
at
this
list
anywhere
from
20
to
five
to
two
people
we
usually
say
about
10
to
12
people
leave,
so
we
think
there
might
be
a
little
Spike
or
maybe
25
people
leaving
30
people
leaving,
but
the
benefits
are
gonna
win
the
long
term,
making
this
reduction
and
not
counting
overtime
anymore,
a
huge
benefit
to
to
the
pension
and
its
health.
Okay,
so
there
might
be
a
little
Spike
of
retirement,
but
in
the
long
term
it's
gonna
put
the
pension
in
a
better
path.
Okay,.
A
C
C
A
E
A
H
Right,
yes,
he
will
be
sending
out
a
new
memo
or
the
new
effective
date,
and
it
will
be
a
revision
of
that
one
that
that
is,
that
is
part
of
your
breeds,
correct,
okay,
and
we
just
want
to
know
based
on
what
we
discussed
with
those
revisions.
Would
that
be
enough
to
satisfy
and
it
doesn't
have
to
be
official.
Would
those
revisions
satisfy
your
agreements,
the.
A
Sure,
and
so
at
this
point,
I
think
we'll
go
ahead
and
let
the
chief
know
that
he
he
can
email
the
revisions
and
then,
if
there's
any
other
issues,
we
can
further
discuss
them,
but
our
our
we're
working
towards
resolving
it
and
we
we
believe
we
have
worked
out
a
resolution
to
all
three
Grievances
and
we
just
need
to
you
know
to
to
confirm
that
once
you're
able
to
fully
read
it,
look
at
it
and
then
and
the
policy
that
the
revised
policy
is
what's
going
to
be
sent
out.
So,
okay.
C
B
C
G
A
And
the
understanding
on
18.3
is
that
this
stays
the
same
and
that
the
chief
may
require
the
dress
class,
a
uniform,
be
worn
by
members
of
the
fire
department
special
occasions
such
as
national
holidays,
parades
ceremonies,
visits
to
the
department
by
dignitaries
or
their
formal
exp
inspections,
provided
that
these
uniforms
are
issued
by
the
city
and
that's
the
same
language.
Okay,.
G
I
G
C
Basically,
with
this
article,
the
current,
like
we
talked
about
when
we
first
proposed
it
look
at
the
issue
of
pan
was
a
fact
of
the
pricing
of
the
equipment
or
the
uniforms
that
we're
getting
was
kind
of
getting
out
of
hand
and
we're
going
to
continue
to
go
down
that
line.
Well,
it
was
going
to
have
to
be
you
know,
reinforced
because
daughter
doesn't
stretch
as
much
as
he
used
to
now.
We
understand
some
of
the
practices
that
they
were
having
the
people
that
were
providing.
These
were
questionable
at
best
I
guess.
J
B
A
If
there
is
an
issue
like
that
again,
please
inform
somehow
inform
the
chief's
office
or
the
legal
department,
because
there's
remedies
for
us
to
be
able
to
hold
them
to
what
they
promised,
but
we
can't
do
it
unless
we
know
it
and
we
have
to
do
follow.
Sometimes
we
have
to
send
them
a
letter
to
cure
and
we
have
to
make
sure
that
we
follow
all
these
processes
before
we
can
cancel
or
default
on.
A
The
you
know
cancel
the
contract,
which
is
if,
if
they're
not
following
it,
then
that's
what
we
need
to
do
so
we
want,
in
order
for
us
to
be
able
to
enforce
our
legal
remedies
against
them.
Just
communication
and
say
hey.
This
is
kind
of
weird
our
boots
went
from,
you
know,
200
to
600,
and
you
know
like
that
takes
up
my
whole.
My
whole
allocation
and.
C
C
Can
address
some
of
our
membership
would
bring
it
up.
Hey
we're
getting
this
duffel
bag
where,
because
it's
us
we're
getting
it
for
45,
but
then
they
go
back
and
April
they're,
stating
that
normally
their
normal
price
is
at
30
dollars.
Some
guys
are
like
hey
it's
cheaper
than
that.
Like
yeah,
we
can't
go
with
a
special.
We
look
at
their
normal
price,
but
if
we're
getting
marked
up
another
10
15
yeah.
B
C
J
C
Post
injury,
the
option
there
or
what
could
have
been
not
to
have
been
done
but
was
but
without
pain.
Oh
and
we
put,
we
post
a
strike
it
originally.
Your
counter
proposal
was
to
leave
it
in.
Are
we
all
were
stating
on
that?
One
is
if
he
is
to
be
without
paying
post
injury
once
he
clears
that
those
monies,
be
it
one
shift
two
shifts
whatever
it
is
to
be
reimbursed
back
to
him.
So.
A
But
if
something
like
that
happens
and
they're
put
on
me
without
pay,
and
then
they
pass
the
drug
test
and
all
whatever
the
policy
requires
and
they
and
when
you
say
compliant
with
it,
it
means
that
they
were
found
to
have
negative
drug
tests.
Then
the
employees
shall
be
reimbursed
wages
and
benefits.
That's
okay.
Has
there
been
an
issue
with
this.
G
I
guess
goes
into
the
pot
into
the
I
guess
into
testing
procedures
and
not
get
paid
right.
That's
why
we
kind
of
wanted
to
get
rid
of
it
to
begin
with,
but
I
guess
you
know
the
city
on
your
side.
You
want
to
leave
it
as
an
option,
just
in
case
those.
You
know,
egregious
you
know
incidents
you
know.
So
our
only
ask
is.
Is
it
if
it
happens?
You
know,
and
if
he's
you
know
cured
of
everything,
just
let
the
employee
receives
their
benefits.
C
Time,
no
and
actually
right
now,
the
current
practice
is
in
case
of
in
your
well,
not
injury,
but
in
case
post
accident
they're
made
to
stay
at
work,
just
not
respond
to
anything.
You're
you're,
not
no
you're,
not
responding
to
anything.
You're
not
allowed
to
do
anything,
neither
with
not
driving
because.
C
A
Right
and
I
think
that
was
usually
for
any
kind
of
incident
where
it
would
be
a
safety
issue
for
the
firefighter
and
or
the
department
or
other
employees
that
if
there
was
some
sort
of
reasonable
suspicion
or
some
other,
you
know
something
related
to
The,
Post
accident
or
post
injury,
that
it
would
allow
the
administration
or
the
management
just
to
get.
You
know
say
you
you
can't
be
here
because.
B
B
F
A
F
A
D
F
F
B
A
A
C
A
At
that
we
did
have
some.
There
was
some
feedback
about
the
potential
for
what
grandfathering
does,
but
you
know
a
change
in
any
kind
of
structure
like
this
is
always
there's
always
going
to
be
some
difficulties
or
or
some
some
issues
that
you
have
to
deal
with,
such
as
you're
dealing
with
in
the
pension
system
when
you're
changing
when
you're
changing
benefits
and
you're
actually
going.
You
know
having
to
change
and
come
come
down
on
some
benefits
like
that.
There's
gonna,
you
know,
there's
gonna
be
people
that
get
affected
by
that.
A
So
our
goal
is
to
address
that
situation,
yet
in
a
way
that
keeps
Laredo
competitive
within
the
market
for
this
or
within
the
competitive,
with
regard
to
comparable
cities
that
it's
something
that
is
sustainable
and
the
city
can
continue
to
honor
that
obligation
and
something
that
attracts
and
retains
firefighters.
So
that's
our
goal
and
we're
just
trying
to
address
and
that's
what
we
started
off
with
our
proposal.
G
Obviously,
nobody
on
this
table
or
within
our
membership
wants
to
divide
our
group
to
say
we
have
something
and-
and
other
individuals
coming
in,
have
something
else
right.
We've
seen
some
of
the
effects
that
the
some
of
the
things
that
happened
in
the
past
and
I
don't
think
it's
something
that
has
been
I,
guess:
productive,
I,
guess
on
our
side.
As
far
as
you
know,
the
way
we
I
guess
take
care
of
each
other
I
think
there
has
been
numbers
thrown
around
I.
G
Think
one
proposed
things
that
when
some
some
we've
been
took
talking
amongst
ourselves
and
towards
our
members
is
maybe
increasing
that
you
know
you
get
a
10
right
now
for
paramedic
ride
and
you
get
a
10
for
Masters
right,
so
maybe
possibly
increasing
it
to
a
15.
You
know
and
having
that
number
just
getting
that
amount
and
then
just
having
that
number.
So
it.
G
You
know
I
think
it's
you
know
increasing
it
initially,
but
then
you
know
I
think
one
of
the
biggest
things
that
you
know
on
the
city
side
that
they
don't
like
is
that
you
know
anytime,
you
work
overtime.
You
know
that
it
gets
factored
in
as
a
percentage,
so
the
number
goes
up
right,
so
it
may
be
increasing
it
initially
to
maybe
enticing
our
members
to
agree
with
it.
You
know
would
be
something
I
guess
that
we've
been
talking
about
see
if
it
works
or
if
it
doesn't.
You.
J
D
C
J
B
G
J
J
G
J
A
G
G
G
That
for
that
pay,
those
are
some
of
the
ideas
that
we've
been
throwing
around.
I
guess
you
know
they're
still
in
the
early
stages,
I
guess
just
to
present
something
at
the
table.
You
know
just
to
let
you
know
where
we're
at,
and
you
know
we're
still.
You
know
we're
300
and
over
350
guys
right
so
I
mean
we
do
need
to
talk
to
all
our
guys
and
sometimes
it
takes
a
while,
but
of.
G
A
I
G
A
Yeah,
that's
the
thing
it's
we
need
to
consider
it
and
look
at
it
crunch
the
numbers.
We
need
to
see
what
it
costs,
what
it
would
look
like
how
it
would
affect
it
see
what
the
cost
is
and
see
what
the
the
impact
is,
but
we'll
we'll
start
we'll
on
our
side,
we'll
crunch
numbers,
and
we
can
even
present
an
example
and
just
not
not
that
we're
depending
on
we
will
work
on
our
counter
proposal,
but
just
for
information
for
everybody
we
can
cost
it
out.
A
B
A
C
This
goes
back
to
you
know:
consensus
originally
from
the
membership,
isn't
don't
touch
it,
no
matter
what
don't
touch
it
and
I
understand
cost
to
it
and
everything,
but,
like
I
said
we
can
negotiate
all
day
for
weeks
on
end
if
the
membership
is
not
going
to
be
an
agreement
to
it,
we're
wasting
time
we're
spinning
our
Wheels.
So
that's
where
we
kind
of
come
up
with
these
ideas
and
we
have
to
be
able
to
have
something
where
we
can
sell
to
the
membership,
because,
if
not
they're,
it's
going
to
be
shot
down.
C
It
goes
back
to
you
know
why
you
know
it's
not
going
to
affect
anybody
right
now,
but
the
immediate
thing
that
we
heard
was
that
you
know
dividing
us
and
we
understand
it
inviting
us
like
that.
The
repercussions
are
just
going
to
happen
down
the
line.
It's
going
to
be
kind
of
productive
to
our
efforts.
You
know,
above
anything
else.
A
How
how
do
you
deal
with
something
like
that
like,
for
instance,
when
you're
dealing
with
the
pension
and
moving?
How
do
you
do
with
that
kind
of
a
divide,
because,
obviously,
when
something
when
you're
dealing
with
benefits
and
and
what
has
been
happening
and
that's
the
thing
with
negotiations,
sometimes
you
have
to
move
shift
things
around
right.
E
Well,
basically,
go
in.
We
know
that
a
few
people
are
going
to
walk
out
the
door
with
the
open
effect,
but
this
can
affect
all
of
us
from
January
1st.
As
far
as
the
pension
change
changes
improved,
it
affects
us
all
generate
first,
yes,
some
memberships
are
able
to
walk
out
and
they
walk
out,
but
even
our
actual.
I
And
it's
payback
so
so
as
far
as
just
to
give
an
insight
as
far
as
where
the
pension
goes,
the
the
ones
that
don't
want
changes
are
now
the
minority
as
opposed
to
the
one
that
that
want
changes
because
they're
looking
at
they're
down
the
line
they're
looking
at
the
future,
what
benefits
everybody
for
the
greater
good
right,
the
vote,
those
guys!
That's
the
majority!
That's
why
we're
pushing
for
changes?
That's
why
we
move
towards
that,
but
the
ones
that
don't
want
changes.
I
A
That's
a
that's
the
situation
that
the
city
has
faced
with
here,
because,
even
even
if
we
leave
the
contract
as
it
is
now
say
that
there's
no
no
changes
in
the
contract
continues
we're
still
experiencing.
What
is
it
about
an
estimated
million
dollar
increase
because
of
steps?
And-
and
you
know,
things
are
already
embedded
in
the
contract-
the
contract
cost
doesn't
remain
the
same.
It
still
keeps
going
up,
and
so
we're
still
dealing
with
that,
even
just
with
the
current
contract.
A
E
You
know
I'm
glad
you
mentioned
steps
and
I
always
hear
this.
It's
an
additional
cost,
but
you
saved
on
that
person's
salary,
because,
when
you
promoted
to
Captain
or
to
any
other
position
that
has
steps
firefighter,
I
mean
looking
and
then
the
city's
saving
money,
because
you're
not
paying
that
full
salary
that
they
will
get
in
three
years.
It
takes
me
three
years
to
get
that
full
salary
for
those
first
two
years,
a
captain's
standard
is
the
same
for
a
one-day
Captain
under
30.
E
A
Right
and
well
steps
with
steps
are
already
embedded
raises
as
you
progress
through
years
of
service
right.
So
that's
what
it
is
so
you're
not
we're
not
getting
it
for
cheap
we're,
we're
rewarding
and
that
part
of
that
is
of
of
the
ability
to
retain
to
retain
a
good
good
firefighters,
to
be
able
to
maintain
the
right
right
and
to
maintain
their
ranks.
A
A
G
You
know
we
have
a
boat
coming
up.
You
know
this
next
week.
I
think
it's
important.
You
know,
as
far
as
the
guys,
having
more
information
to
be
people
in
a
certain
plan.
You
know
we
wouldn't
want
guys
to
build
prison
plan.
Just
out
of
you
know,
hey
it's
a
partnership
that
the
city
isn't
wanting
to.
You
know
put
anything
on
the
table.
You
know
so
should.
A
That
additional
contribution
is
conditional
on
the
firefighters
voting
to
contribute
a
one
percent
and
and
and
a
commitment
to
change
the
benefits
and
conditional
on
the
on
a
policy
passed
by
the
board
to
maintain
the
citizen
members
of
the
board
of
true
citizen,
true,
objective
citizens,
so
that
that's
what
we
have
and
we're
working
on
the
counter
proposal,
like
I
said
we
have
to.
When
we
look
at
the
economic
impacts,
we
have
to
look
at
them
as
a
whole,
and
so
we'll
be.
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
J
J
C
C
A
A
Today.
We
talked
about
the
data
that
we
requested
and
we
talked
about
both
public
excuse
me
public
sessions
that
we
had
so
yeah.
We
are
working
on
it
and
it's
not
an
easy
issue
and
we're
working
on
a
lot
of
other
difficult
issues
at
the
same
time,
and
so
I've
I've
said
it
before
we're
not
going
to
piecemeal
the
pension.
C
Thank
you.
We
gave
your
kind
of
proposal
and
you
wanted
to
still
hear
it
out.
That's
what
we
heard
it
out,
but
to
be
saying
that
it's
hanging
on
that
specific
article
and
we
can't
get
to
any
other
economic
articles
on
it
like
why?
Don't
we
just
put
on?
Why
don't
we
just
put
everything
on
the
table
today
and
piece
it
together
because
you
wanted
to
go
if
we
can.
A
Can
negotiate
all
at
once
and
what
we're
what
we're
doing
is
we
have
placed
all
of
our
economic
issues
on
the
table
we've
been.
We
did
spend
two
days
two
full
days
on
the
ground
rules
we've
been
meeting
since
July,
and
the
proposals
have
been
placed
on
the
table
by
the
union
have
asked
for
increases
in
all
the
economic
issues,
but
have
not
given
us
anything
of
value
for
those
requested
increases.
A
What
the
city
has
done
is
the
city
has
responded
to
a
lot
of
the
counter
proposals
that
aren't
economic
in
in
nature.
We
have
responded
to
the
things
that
we
were
asking
for.
In
addition
to
the
increases
that
we
have
already
placed
on
the
table
to
the
tune
of
11
million
dollars.
We
want
value
for
the
money,
the
additional
monies
that
we're
putting
on
the
table,
and
we
have
you
know,
for
instance,
like
the
appointment
of
the
assistant
chief.
A
You
know
you're
saying
that
you
don't
want
it,
but
we're
trying
we're
trying
to
bring
cohesiveness
to
the
management.
Let
the
fire
chief
be
able
to
manage
his
Department,
the
way
that
he
sees
fit
and
we're
placing
all
this
money
on
the
table
yet
you're
refusing
to
you
know
to
to
bargain
on
that
part.
A
So
when
we're
talking
about
negotiating
and
giving
them
back
and
forth,
that's
what
it
is
when
you,
when
you're
asking
for
something
you
have
to
there,
has
to
be
some
value
added
to
that
money,
and
so
that's
what
we
have
done.
We've
been
waiting
for
the
union
to
do
it
and
we
haven't
seen
it
yet.
It's
just
been
asking
for
a
lot
of
for
money,
we're
still
willing
to
sit
down
and
talk,
and
that's
why
we're
you
know
when
we're
negotiating
the
contract?
A
It's
not
piecemeal,
you're,
not
just
negotiating
this
one
sentence,
or
this
one
article.
It's
a
cohesive
document,
it's
the
four
corners
of
the
contract
and
it
all
has
to
mesh
and
blend
in
it
all
has
to
have
value,
and
so
that's
that's
the
way.
We're
looking
at
it
and
that's
the
way
we'll
from
here
on
out
we'll
just
have
to
I
guess
what
we'll
do
students
will
have
to
look
at
it
as
a
package
and
we'll
put
that
together.
F
A
G
G
So
we
did
mention
last
meeting
also
as
far
as
you
know,
the
pension
meeting
coming
up
like
the
vote
and
stuff.
So
that
was
something
that
you
know.
We
did
mention
that
we
wanted
to
talk
about
most
of
this
leading
as
well
and
learned
something
that
we
discussed
some
of
the
numbers
that
you
requested,
and
that
was
the
majority
of
the
conversation
that.
J
C
C
J
J
J
E
The
vacancy
was
over
a
year,
I
believe
one
of
the.
So
when
that
I
remember
who
stepped
off
or
what
happened.
But
we
were
missing
a
person.
Several
people
said
took
me
to
bring
candidates
and
for
a
year
it
just
stayed
vacant,
and
then
one
of
the
important
numbers
brought
it
up
and
the
next
month
two
different.
F
One
of
the
reasons
it
might
make
sure
one
of
the
reasons
that
it
was
to
remain
open
is
be
born
in
Germany
had
been
having
some
discussions
and
most
of
the
discussions
were
pushed
by
by
me
and
when
I
went
in
and
I
looked
at
keyboard
compensation,
a
special
position.
It
included
two
citizens
at
large
and
we
we
had
to
retire
and
we've
had
maybe
in
its
own
secret
chapter
9
and
then
previous
board
members
have
discussed
it
to
get
some
neutral
party
in
there,
because
the
way
people
are
supposed
to
earn.
F
The
intention
of
the
spirit
of
the
composition
is
to
get
two
citizens
a
large
anger.
So
when
we
have
two
retirees
pretty
much,
the
votes
are
always
free
and
so
that
the
reason
he
had
been
there
for
years,
because
internally
have
been
going
backwards
and
forwards
on
that.
He
trying
to
get
at
least
one.
A
F
In
there
that
was
neutral,
that
is
not
a
retired
chiropractor.
Finally,
I
think
it
was
another
board
member
for
situations
that
we
need
to
fill
this
position
and
we
look
forward
and
feel
that
even
there
we
had
some
discussions
about
this
exact
thing.
Discussion
that
we're
having
today
is
a
trying
to
do
that,
and
we
said,
can
we
just
come
up
with
some
nominations?
F
We
did.
There
was
another
board
member
that
is
appointed
by
the
mayor
that
also
wanted
to
bring
in
he
had
a
recommendation.
He
asked
the
board.
Does
anybody
else?
Have
any
recommendation?
No
recommendation
was
done
at
that
time,
so
he
talked
to
this
individual.
The
individual
was
willing
to
run
in,
and
I
talked
to
several
it's
hard
to
get
a
volunteer
in
your
citizen.
F
F
Yet
so
we
struggled
with
this
situation
and
the
only
the
only
reason
we're
bringing
it
here
to
the
table,
because
that's
the
only
that's
the
only
Avenue
we
have
at
this
point
position
in
there,
because
they're
not
devoted
the
votes
are
always
going
onward.
There's
only
one
person
in
there
from
the
citizen,
employment,
the.
C
C
E
B
J
The
reason
we
are
trying
to
all
fix
the
pension
now
is
because
of
previous
decisions
that
were
made
that
were
skewed
I
was
I,
was
a
final
structure,
part
of
the
board,
and
there
were
so
many
frustrations
where
we
knew
that
the
decisions
that
were
being
made
at
the
time
not
anymore,
not
at
the
time
were
so
bad
I
was
outboarded
every
single
time.
We
were
the
way
the
city
got
voted
and
we're
like.
Oh
my
gosh,
oh
my
God,
now
we're
trying
to
fix
it.
J
All
of
us
are
trying
to
fix
it,
but
we
don't
want
that
history
to
repeat
itself
because
it
does
at
the
end
of
the
day.
Something
happens
you
leave
you
leave
today
and
then
you
don't
know
who
they're
going
to
replace
and
then
it's
a
different
mindset
and
we
we
don't
want
the
history
to
repeat
itself.
F
J
F
A
D
C
C
A
And
we're
asking
for
a
policy
to
ensure
that
that
citizen
is
an
objective
citizen
that
can
provide
an
objective
view
in
in
position
and
perspective
on
the
board.
Somebody
that's
not
going
to
benefit
from
the
from
actually
voting
on
what
benefits
are
going
to
be
given,
because
because
the
board
is
the
one
that
determines
the
benefits.
J
F
F
B
H
F
Everything
that's
going
on
with
our
pension
and
trying
to
fix
things
and
make
be
proactive
for
certain
things,
so
we
won't
have
to
be
doing
that
stuff
here.
At
this
negotiation
day,
we've
been
trying
to
to
come
and
come
with
solutions
for
years
now,
and
for
you
to
tell
us
what
we
need
to
change
this
and
we
need
to
do
that.
We've
been
doing
our
part
to
get
what
we
need
to
do.
I
mean
letting
us
open
up
the
contract
to
put
another
one
percent
of
my
paycheck
into
there.
F
J
F
E
E
I've
been
going
to
classroom
I
just
want
to
say
like
for
this
skewed,
I
mean
if
you
look
at
the
ballot.
What
you
know
we've
worked
on,
it's
not
we're
not
trying
to
secure
it.
I
mean
we're
giving
you
guys
two
options:
both
options
are
we're.
Taking
the
recommendation
from
the
action
says:
get
rid
of
your
overtime.
E
A
F
And
I
guess:
I
go
back
to
real,
quick
because
I
just
want
to
clarify
this
is
my
personal
as
a
board
member
and
as
he
appointed
City
Board
member
in
their
my
goal,
is
to
have
a
stakeholder,
a
citizen
representative
represented
in
that
board
to
help
make
the
decisions.
That's
I
mean
I,
know
I.
Don't
it's
not.
My
intent
is
not
so
that
we
gain
control,
because
we
still
will.
B
G
Think
I
think
the
bigger
the
biggest
part
is
even
if
those
changes
were
to
be
implemented,
and
we
agreed
to
something
like
that.
You
know
I
think
both
plans.
We
both
need
a
seven
percent
to
get
to
25
right,
so
majority
of
the
cuts
are
coming
off
of
firefighters,
back
right,
the
city
for
the
city
to
say
that
don't
we're
both
responsible
for
this
plan.
You
know
and
the
city's
only
putting
a
one
percent
on
the
table
when
we're
both
responsible.
We
both
you,
know
Staffing
shortages.
G
You
know
where,
where
the
city
hasn't
provided
the
the
amount
of
Staffing
that
the
firefighters
need
to
be
able
to
put
into
the
pension,
you
know
we've
done,
we've
both
done
mistakes
right,
but
I
think
even
just
proposing
a
one
percent
increase.
You
know
when
firefighters
are
putting
in
4.33
of
cuts
on
one
and
fifty.
F
J
J
Would
say
it's
three
citizens,
two
no
three
city
employees,
two
citizens
and
two
firefighters,
I-
think
that
if
you're
sitting
outside
the
table,
the
table
will
be
reversed.
You'd
be
asking
for
the
same
thing.
It's
like
hey.
We
want
some
true,
balanced,
I,
guess
presentation.
That's
all
we're
asking
for,
because
if
the
tables
weren't
reversed.
G
B
J
J
F
E
G
A
H
A
A
E
A
Need
to
be
without
an
additional
contribution
to
from
the
city
is
that
right,
if
you
vote
plan
a
or
Plan
B
and
planning
with
even
without
the
one
percent
implant
B
would
require
an
additional
one
percent
from
the
firefighters
right.
So
then
you're
already
there
if
they
and
that's
why
our
our
one
percent
is
contingent
that
we
have
on
the
table
right
now
is
contingent
on
that.
A
Can
that
that
being
a
condition
in
addition
to
the
citizens,
so
that
would
actually
help
further
make
or
help
further
the
healthiness
of
the
plan
and
move
further
be
better
than
you
would
already
reach
the
goal
before
the
actuary.
You
said
you
need
to
be,
and
then
with
our
one
percent
it
would
just
make.
Put
you
in
a
healthier
place.
Is
that
right.
G
A
Okay,
so
then,
so
so,
we've
already
had
that
proposal
on
the
table,
which
shows
that
we
were
considering
it
we're
looking.
These
are
the
items
that
we
place
and
I
know
that
the
vote
is
coming
in
and
we're
talking
about
it
and
our
proposal
wasn't
zero.
It
wasn't
like
no
we're
not
going
to
do
anything
so
why
you
know
it
would
be
I.
Don't
know
that
the
that
the
vote
that
why
did
the?
A
E
So
the
goal
of
the
board
wasn't
to
just
pass
that
threshold
of
30,
let's
get
to
25,
to
get
to
a
better
footage
and
we
just
came
up
with
two
options
for
our
membership.
If
we
thought
what
if
we
can't
get
them
to
cut
seven
percent-
or
maybe
they
won't
agree
to
that-
to
get
to
25
because
we
don't
want
to
just
firm
horses-
doesn't
want
to
get
to
30.,
it
wants
to
be
way
better.
For
a
year
like
this
year,
we've
we've
lost
20
million
dollars
for
the
stock
market,
Stand
Together,
so
communication
Rises.
E
So
we
want
to
have
that
cushion.
So
when
we
have
that
next
actuary,
we
had
a
five-year
push-up
and
that's
what
we're
trying
to
get
to
and
the
membership
reports
in
on
one
it
gets
to
get
to
25
on
their
own
and
they
give
us
one
percent
more
and
the
city
gives
us
something
more.
It's
always
better
for
you.
A
Okay,
we're
the
city's
here
in
good
faith,
and
we
hear
we
realize
that
the
the
vote
is
next
week.
We
have
a
a
counter
proposal
on
the
table.
You
kind
of
proposed
back
with
the
2.67
I
think
that
the
city
I
don't
have
anything
in
writing,
but
I'm
gonna
make
a
counter
proposal
orally
on
the
record
and
then
we'll
we'll
memorialize
it
in
writing
and
I
can
send
it,
send
it
to
you,
okay,
but
this
is
going.
A
This
is
going
to
be
a
counter
proposal
and
this
counter
proposal.
We
we,
like
I,
said
we
look
at
the
total
economic
package,
so
this
is
not
Standalone.
This
will
affect
what
what
with
the
money
and
the
that
we
have
for
all
the
other
economic
items.
So
when
we
continue
bargaining,
this
is
going
to
be
part
of
the
package
of
the
economic
proposal,
but
for
you
know
for
for
what
you
need-
and
we
want
to
help
you
with
the
with
the
pinch
address
the
the
pension.
A
The
a
total
of
an
additional
1.5
spread
evenly
of
the
proposed
five
years
of
the
contract
and
the
conditions
are
that
the
membership
vote.
The
city
will
contribute
that,
on
the
condition
that
the
membership
vote
for
plan
A
that
they
that
they
approve
the
plan
a
for
the
benefit
changes.
They
approve
an
additional
one
percent
by
the
firefighters
contribution
as
well
that
the
board
passed
a
policy
that
the
two
citizens
be
objective
citizens.
A
A
A
A
However,
that
is
divided
divided
evenly.
The
condition
would
be
the
approval
of
plan,
one
the
approval
of
one
percent,
additional
contribution
by
the
firefighters,
the
two
objective
citizen
members
of
the
board
that
have
no
ties
to
the
benefits
and
no
benefit
changes
to
no
benefit
increases
to
the
plan
during
the
term
of
the
five
years.
A
E
E
No
I
mean
I,
understand
the
negotiation
part
and
the
board
creating
this
policy,
but
I'm,
saying
what's
holding
that
policy
in
place
in
State
Statute
says
different
and
I'm
asking
this
question,
because
when
we
were
looking
at
at
making
changes
to
our
plan,
we
thought
about
increasing
our
guys
years
of
service
from
20
to
21
23,
making
them
stay
longer.
I
can
just
bring
it
in
a
drop
because
raising
that
drop
only
affects
the
younger
guys.
B
E
B
E
E
E
F
E
J
B
E
Mention
it
during
the
comment
section
that
we
had
this.
It
was
on
my
mind
to
to
bring
up
what
Joel
had
mentioned,
but,
like
I
said,
Mr
houses
spoke
to
attorney,
I
did
it,
but
he
said
you
know
he
would
advise
against
as
as
Lord
as
the
client
to
pension
saying
I
would
advise
for
you
guys
to
do
that,
and
then
he
went
on
to
mention.
The
union
cannot
tell
this
other
board
what
to
do
or
how
to
do
it
right.
So
I.
B
E
Just
if
we
here
at
the
table
say
oh
yeah
we'll
do
this,
and
this
is
still
like.
You
said
planning
one
can
contingent
that
our
our
membership
vote
for
Plano
one
because
honestly
I
I
can
truly
say
they're
not
going
to
vote
for
no
change.
But
I
can't
tell
you
when
they're
going
to
pick
one
or
two
I,
don't
know
I
I,
don't
know,
and
just.
A
Like
the
firefighters
are
looking
the
membership
of
the
pensions
looking
for
a
commitment
from
the
city,
the
city
is
also
looking
for
a
commitment
from
the
membership
as
well,
of
course,
so
and
and
I
think
that's
Mutual.
Now
as
to
the
legal
issues,
of
course,
you
know
our
proposal
on
the
citizen.
The
objective
citizens
would
be
subject
to
whatever
the
law
allows
us
to
do
and
I'll
do
further
research,
but
I
didn't
find
anything
that
prohibited
us
from
doing
that
and
I
don't
think.
A
If
the
I
think
that
if
the
board
has
a
policy
and
I
can
discuss
that
and
I'd
be
happy
to
visit
with
the
pension
attorney,
if
I
can
get
that
information
and
we
can
discuss
it
and
talk
about
the
the
different
factors
you
know
of
different
facts
and
situations
really
impact
and
the
analyzation
of
legal
issues.
So
we
can
get
on
the
same
boat
about
that
and
discuss
it.
A
I'd
be
happy
to
do
that,
but
this
the
cities
from
the
city's
perspective,
if
Allowed
by
law
and
as
as
not
prohibited
by
law
and
still
within
the
statute,
that
this
pension
is
run
under
we're.
Looking
for
a
policy
to
be
implemented.
That
would
ensure
that
there
is
objective
two
objective
citizens
on
the
board.
That
would
be
able
to
provide
perspective
and
opinions
where
they
don't
have
a
per.
They
don't
have
any
personal
benefit
from
the
from
the
pension.
So
so
attention
will
be
able
to
see
the
signal.
A
If
I
can
get
that
that
information
that
we
would
do
that.
But
that's
that's
what
the
city
is
looking
for.
I
didn't
see
anything
that
prohibited.
It
I'd
be
happy
to
discuss
that
further
with
the
pension
attorney,
but
we
are
not
seeking
to
supersede
the
state
law
with
regard
to
the
pension
we're
seeking
to
work
within
it
and
it's
it
has
the
makeup
of
the
board
and.
B
C
B
C
A
E
C
A
The
membership
has
said
that
they're
committed
to
making
changes
to
bring
the
fund
back
into
a
healthy
State,
bring
the
amortization
rate
or
the
years
of
amortization
to
under
30
plan
plan.
One
reaches
25,
I,
think
or
Twenty
twenty
five
years
with
just
the
voting
of
that
plan.
And
that
accomplishes
the
goal
of
not
only
the
actuary
but
the
board
which
voted
to
getting
close
to
25,
correct.
And
so.
In
addition
to
that,
to
keep
the
plan
Health.
But
the
the
plan
healthy
and
funded.
A
And-
and
we
expect
the
board
to
on
condition
of
asking
for
this
additional
money
to
vote
for
the
two
objective
citizens
and
and
that
there's
no
benefit
changes
or
no
benefit
increases
during
the
term
of
the
contract,
because
why
it
would
be
an
empty
promise
for
us
to
put
money
into
the
pension
and
then,
in
a
couple
of
years.
Before
the
end
of
the
contract,
then
it
goes
back
to
the
way
it
was
before
and
create
the
problem
all
over
again
and
that
and
that
that
is
a
possibility.
E
E
That's
that's
what
the
the
concern
on
that
policy
is
that
it's
a
board.
That's
not
here
at
the
table
and
the
attorney's
not
here
at
the
table
when
you've
got
to
turn
the
advices
to
board
members,
don't
consider
this
or
vote
against
this
or,
if
whatever
the
case
may
be,
that
he
he
might
advise
is
what
we're
saying
is.
We've
already
asked
our
members
to
vote
on
plan
A
and
then
it
doesn't
fall
through
the
part
about
not
doing
benefit
increases.
I,
don't
see
that
happening.
E
A
Was
within
the
law
the
within
what
the
law
allows,
so
we
do
need
to
have
and
I'd
be
willing
to
have
that
conversation
with
him
tomorrow,
or
you
know
the
attorney
tomorrow
or
Monday
or
whatever
the
soonest
is
that
I
can
speak
without
attorney,
but
it's
within
the
law.
If,
if
it
is
clear
that
the
law
does
not
allow
that,
then
we're
not
going
to.
A
Then
we're
not
going
to
violate
the
law
but
within,
as
whatever
policy
can
be
passed
by
the
board,
to
ensure
some
sort
of
objectiveness
that
is
within
the
law
that
governs
the
the
pension.
That's
what
we're
looking
for,
not
looking
for
a
violation
of
the
law,
we're
looking
for
a
an
objective
perspective
from
a
citizen
who
does
not
personally
benefit
from
the
decisions
as
this
board
makes,
and
that's
that's
what
we're
seeking
just
a
fairness
of
fairness
to
the
board,
and
so
we
can
have
that
I
think
it's!
A
We
can
it's
additional
money
that
we're
putting
in,
and
so
we
have
these
conditions
that
we're
making
a
commitment.
We
expect
a
commitment
to
be
made
from
the
membership
and
and
the
the
how
many
firefighters
are
on
the
board.
There's
three
right:
three:
three:
firefighters,
two
citizens
and
then
two
appointees
right
so
City
appointees,
so
that
led
the
citizen
part
is
subject
to
the
legal
issues
and
if
it's
not
allowed
by
law,
that's
we're
not
asking
to
violate
your
law.
J
B
J
E
Be
yeah
I
mean
as
as
a
board
member
I
know
other
guys
have
asked
if
we
put
more.
What
are
your
plans
with
that?
With
going
below
your
your
target?
You
know
getting
that
lower
amortization
and
my
response
has
been
our
expected
rate
of
return
to
orbital
seven,
because
one
of
the
reasons
we're
on
this
is
because,
as
a
board,
we
went
from
eight
to
seven
foot,
four,
so
seven
and
a
half
somewhere
more.
E
So
we
lowered
it
a
lot,
but
we
made
that
decision
when
we
were
about
43.
We
said
we're
already
on
the
wrong
side
of
where
we
should
be.
Why
not
just
blow
it
up
and
let's
fix
it
and
actually
went
from
eight
to
seven
point
four
to
degrees.
So
we
went
seven
and
a
half
and
I
think
we
decided
another
point
after
that,
so
we're
at
their
7.47.5.
But
that
was
part
of
the
reason
we
got
to
57
was
we're
trying
to
get
more
realistic
expectations
and
my
personal
goes
again
like
6.75.
E
B
E
You
know
it's
hard
to
say
guys,
vote
for
this
plan,
but
then
some
other
expectation
on
all
those
demands
that
not
met
and
now
yeah.
What
do
we?
What?
What
are
we
we're
going
to
respond
to
our
membership
or
they
wrote
down
the
contract
because
they
don't
like
some
other
aspect.
You
know
we're
talking
about
getting
rid
of
the
incentives
and
then
the
minimal
rates
and
stuff
like
that.
So
it's
like.
We
have
a
lot
of
things
on
the
table
if
it
doesn't
pass.
What's
what's
going
to
happen,
if.
H
I
manifest
I
think
there
needs
to
be
a
clarification,
we're
not
asking
to
get
rid
of
incentives.
It's
about
you're,
talking
about
the
ad
phase
right
sure
it's
about
it's
about
the
percentages
now
I
kind
of
want
to
analogize
these
two
things.
You
guys
are
very
concerned
about
the
health
of
your
fund
right
because
it
does
so
many
things
it
pays
for
all
the
things
that
you
need
to
have
when
you
retire
correct.
H
A
similar
fund
is
that
of
the
city.
It
is
not
an
infinite
amount
of
resources
and
it
pays
for
a
lot
of
other
things
as
well.
So
there
are
certain
hard
decisions
that
need
to
be
made
in
order
for
that
fund
to
be
healthy,
to
pay
for
everything
that
you
all
have
as
firefighters
and
when
we
say
that
advisor
a
problem,
they're
a
problem,
especially
the
percentages
and
in
saying
that
we're
not
saying
we're
not
we're
going
to
de-incentivize
you
to
get
certifications
and
be
better
firefighters.
A
B
A
We've
also
placed
other
proposals
on
the
table
that
equal
to
11
000,
11
million
dollars
in
new
money
over
five
years
and
so
and
what
we're
asking
for
we've
asked
we've.
We
have
the
things
that
we're
asking
for.
We
have
actually
placed
value
in
terms
of
money,
actual
new
monies
on
the
table
and
and
and
that's
what
we
have
placed
on
the
table
we
have
you
know,
I
can
go
down,
there's
some
tentative
agreements
where
we've
we've
accepted
what
your
proposals
were
at
the
very
beginning
and
even
the
other.
A
C
I
D
F
F
F
A
A
F
A
You
know
that
the
the
reason
that
we
have
vacancies-
we
don't
have
a
problem
attracting
people
to
to
come
to
the
academies
we
get
over
a
thousand
applications
for
every
Academy
that
has
60
that
we
can
only
have
60
Cadets
right
and
we
had
covid,
which
was
out
of
anybody's
control
and
so
as
I
understand.
800
testimonies
as
I
understand
that
a
lot
of
the
vacancies
were
a
result
of
things
that
were
outside
the
control
of
the
city.
F
A
A
Be
and
if
we
can
rehash
the
past
when
we
weren't
here,
we
can
rehash
that
as
much
as
you
want,
but
we're
here
today
and
we
have
placed
money
on
the
table
today
to
help
you
address
the
pension
issue
and
that's
what
we're
talking
about
what
we're,
what
we're
doing
today
and
and
that
we
want
to
move
forward.
Okay,
we.
F
A
F
H
G
F
J
A
A
There
was
one
I
was
looking
for
the
costume
of
the
Union's
proposals.
For
some
reason,
I
can't
find
them.
The
cities
are
11
million
dollars
in
the
union
had
initially
come
in
at
67
million
or
of
new
monies
over
five
years
and
I
know
that
you
went
off
of
10
million,
but
you're
still
in
a
50
million
dollar
range
of
new
monies
over
five
years.
I.
J
B
D
J
I
A
So,
on
article
12
on
that
Staffing
we
haven't
countered
because
we
were
taking
it
all.
As
we
said
and
as
we
said,
it's
the
last
several
meetings
that
we're
looking
at
the
total
economic
package,
and
so,
if
there's
any
amendments
that
you
would
want
to
make
on
article
12
with
regard
to
the
requested
minimum
Staffing
that
you
have
we'd
be
happy
to
accept
that
right.
B
J
C
C
C
B
E
F
I
had
a
conversation
with
the
achievement
kind
of
went
back
from
that
and
with
the
last
Academy,
the
24th
that
we
had
and
I
went
back
to
my
old
contract
I
had
a
notation.
They
were
in
that
contract
that
I
had
a
plus
nine
that
was
hard
to
be
filled
with
that
Academy
that
Academy
from
the
ground
so
I
think
that
was
broken
down
by
the
nine.
For
that
one
of
those
units.
E
E
E
Like
that
yeah,
we
we
put
so
that
ambulance
and
partners
that
were
going
to
be
there
and
they're
going
to
put
in
aerial
and
soft
burrito
404
and
the
ambulance
on
the
north
side
yeah,
but
that
was
after
the
contracts
we're
just
saying
to
verify
that
we
have
the
fdus
according
to
the
units.
That's
all.
F
E
F
E
A
E
E
H
F
G
E
E
B
A
G
A
J
C
F
F
B
A
Or
and
since
we
discussed
this
as
a
table,
we
just
need
to
exchange
the
documentation,
but
I
will
prepare
the
TA
for
article
18
prepare
the
counter
proposal,
the
city
of
laredo's,
counter
proposal
for
30
that
was
verbally
given
and
then
the
fire
Union
will
prepare
and
send
over
by
email.
Their
counter
proposal
for
12,
as
as
they
verbally
gave
foreign.
B
G
I
B
B
A
A
J
A
I
E
A
I
can
I'll
try
to
do
9,
A.M
I'll,
just
see
what
I
see
what
I
can
work
out,
but
no
later
than
10.,
and
then
let
me
confirm
that
we
can
do.
It
looks
like
it's
probably
going
to
be
the
six
an
afternoon
session
on
the
six
and
then
a
full
day
on
the
on
the
seventh.
If
I'm
already
here,
then
we
can
probably
start
at
nine.