►
From YouTube: January 31, 2023 Heritage Preservation Commission
Description
Additional information at:
https://lims.minneapolismn.gov
Submit written comments about agenda items to: councilcomment@minneapolismn.gov
A
B
A
A
We'll
work
from
the
agendas
that
are
available
over
by
the
clerk
I
will
go
through
the
agenda
and
sort
out
whether
any
items
will
be
withdrawn,
continue
to
a
future
meeting,
discussed
or
put
on
a
consent
agenda
to
be
approved,
as
recommended
so
item
number
fours,
or
only
one
that
needs
to
be
sorted.
It
is
the
update
to
the
design
guidelines
for
on-premise
signs
and
awnings
item
number
four
will
be
discussed,
so
the
proposed
agenda
is
item
number
four
update
to
the
design
guidelines
for
on-premise
signs
and
awnings
it'll
have
staff
presentation
and
commission
discussion.
A
A
D
A
E
Evening
Madam
chair
members
of
the
commission,
my
name
is
Johnson
I'm
pleased
to
be
before
you
this
evening.
To
brief
you
on
our
update
to
the
hpc's
design
guidelines
for
on-premise
signs
and
awnings.
This
is
a
topic
you've
reviewed
at
several
HPC
Retreats,
and
we
thank
you
for
your
feedback
there
and
we're
here
to
obtain
more
feedback
and
answer
any
questions
before
we
send
these
guidelines
off
to
the
state
for
their
review.
E
The
standards
have
been
streamlined
because,
first
of
all,
our
zoning
code
standards
have
have
been
relaxed.
Here's
an
example:
roof
signs
are
now
allowed.
They
weren't
in
2003,
when
these
guidelines
were
first
adopted,
and
if
the
zoning
code
standards
have
relaxed,
then
our
HPC
guidelines
should
really
relax
correspondingly.
E
The
photo
on
the
top
is
from
the
1960s
before
our
zoning
code
really
started,
regulating
signage
trying
to
make
sure
it
was
for
identification
only
as
opposed
to
just
advertising,
and
you
can
see
the
results
here
at
the
bottom
take
in
last
year,
so
the
zoning
code
has
relaxed.
We
know.
Historically,
signage
was
far
more
prevalent
during
all
of
our
districts
and
landmarks
periods
of
significance,
so
for
the
HPC
standards
to
be
stricter
than
the
zoning
code,
standards
really
didn't
seem
appropriate.
E
E
So
you'll
note,
the
design
itself
has
changed.
We've
tried
to
color
code
items
by
section
to
make
them
more
eye-catching
and
help
guide
users
to
the
specific
guidance
they're.
Looking
for
our
general
standards
are
depicted
in,
yellow
guidelines
by
sign
type
are
now
in
green
application
process.
Standards
are
in
Gray
and
sign.
Definitions
are
in
blue
we've,
added
photographs
illustrating
standards
and
definitions
to
try
and
make
things
clearer
for
applicants,
we've
added
graphics
and
numbers
to
both
highlight
and
organize
standards.
E
So
our
next
step
is
to
update
the
guidelines
with
any
feedback
we
receive
from
you,
send
this
off
to
the
state
for
their
review
and
then
bring
these
back
to
you
for
formal
adoption.
So
this
is
not
the
last
time
you
will
see
these
I'm
available
for
any
questions
you
may
have
and
yeah.
There
is
no
applicant
here.
A
And
no
need
for
a
public
hearing
technically,
that's
right,
because
that's
just
guidance.
So
thank
you
for
that
presentation,
Dr,
Smiley
Commissioners.
Are
there
any
questions
or
comments
for
staff
and
since
I
often
have
to
pull
things
I'll
start
and
then
I'll,
then
I'll?
Let
you
guys
go
and
I
just
have
a
couple
General
comments
at
the
beginning.
First
of
all,
thank
you.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Anyone
who
knows
me
knows
that
signage
is
one
of
my
least
favorite
things
to
have
to
talk
about
up
here.
A
I
would
say
just
carefully
review
all
the
texts
for
shells
and
shoulds
and
make
sure
you
using
the
one
that
you
intend
to
use
and
a
couple
places.
It
mentions
architectural
features
and
you
might
want
to
think
about
character,
defining
features
or
something
along
that
line,
because
architectural
features
are
kind
of
they're
all
over
the
buildings
right.
So
we
want
to
make
sure
it's
the
the
character,
defining
ones
that
we're
trying
to
protect.
A
F
I
do
thank
you,
madam
chair
Mr.
Snowy
I
got
a
couple
of
questions
so
on
the
page
that
has
the
the
four
yellow
circles:
historic
science,
location,
installation,
illumination
1.1.
It
says
blah
blah
blah
blah
but
may
count
towards
zoning
code
permitted
signage.
Are
there
a
lot
of
areas
that
where
this,
where
this
set
of
procedures
or
standards,
doesn't
align
with
zoning,
or
is
this
isolated.
E
Madam
chair
commissioner
Mel
Blum.
There
aren't
many
areas
where
the
revised
guidelines
don't
align
with
the
zoning
code.
We've
had
our
colleagues
and
Landis
designer
preservation
and
code
development
check
this,
both
against
current
standards
and
proposed
standards,
because
we're
currently
going
through
an
update
to
our
zoning
code
to
bring
it
in
compliance
with
a
comprehensive
plan.
This
particular
section
I
think
what
it's
really
trying
to
talk
about
here
is
to
note
that
you
know
we.
E
E
F
Is
that
or
so
are
items
like
this?
You
said
that
the
zoning
code
is
being
to
be
updated.
Are
items
like
this
going
to
be
addressed
by
where
there
are
conflicts
and
try
to
get
them
out,
I'll
just
say
as
an
architect
and
somebody
who
has
to
deal
with
rules
and
regulations,
it's
much
easier
for
everybody.
If
things
are
harmonized
across
the
City
requirements,
rather
than
their
disagreement,
so.
E
I
couldn't
agree
more
and
we've
really
done
our
best
to
do
that.
I
mean
one
of
the
top
reasons
we
you
know
updated.
This
was
to
bring
it
more
in
line
with
zoning
code
standards,
and
these
guidelines
are
now
more
permissive.
So
there
are
fewer
regulations
in
general
and
fewer
that
conflict.
As
you
know,
standards
have
changed
over
time
say
you
know,
for
example,
in
the
case
of
roof
signs
which
these
guidelines,
the
hbc's
guidelines
prohibited,
but
which,
were
you
know
updated
about
a
decade
ago.
E
The
zoning
code
was
updated
about
a
decade
ago
to
allow
roof
signs.
This
one
in
particular,
though,
is
tough
I
have
I
was
hoping
we
could
change
something
like
this,
but
that
that
one's
just
not
possible.
Our
zoning
administrator
has
determined
that
even
if
signs
are
historic,
they
still
need
to
comply
with
zoning
code
standards
and
in
that
sense,
there's
Good
Grounds.
You
know
for
there
being
a
practical
difficulty
to
Grant
somewhat
a
variance,
but
he
is
not
willing
to
Grant
exceptions
to
that
particular
rule.
That
is
a
notable
exception.
E
I
think.
Another
notable
exception
is
our
definition
of
canopy.
It's
I
was
kind
of
conflicted
with
the
zoning
code.
The
zoning
code
defines
canopies
as
having
some
connection
to
the
ground,
but
if
we
adopted
that
same
standard
in
these
guidelines,
which
we've
done
with
all
the
other
definitions,
they
are
all
very
much
in
line
with
the
zoning
code
definitions.
If
we
adopted
that
standard
for
canopies
all
of
our
warehouse,
District
canopies,
the
the
you
know,
character,
defining
canopies
would
suddenly
not
meet
that
definition
and
we'd
have
problems.
F
Are
there
other?
Let
me
ask
the
question
differently:
are
there
were
these
written
because
many
of
your
examples
are
seem
like
they
are
in
the
warehouse
District.
So
are
there
going
to
be
issues
in
areas
that
are
unlike
the
warehouse
District,
where
some
the
conditions
may
be
different,
or
is
that
just
not
like
I
read
through
these
and
think
they
make
sense
for
that
kind
of
space?
But
do
they
make
sense?
For
let's
say
if
the?
F
If
the
the
neighborhood
around
the
Mia
becomes
a
historic
district
or
let's
talk
to
one
other
Commissioners
about
the
Lynnhurst
neighborhood,
so
it
doesn't
have
signage
in
it.
But
just
do
these
adequately
cover
all
of
the
different
types
of
buildings
and
eras,
because
I'm
assuming
at
some
point
in
the
not
too
distant
future,
we'll
start
landmarking
more
and
more
buildings
from
the
70s
and
the
60s.
More
so
than-
and
that's
probably
has
happened.
E
Madam
chair
commissioner
melb:
no,
they
don't
what
they
do.
Is
they
defer
to
the
zoning
code,
which
you
know
regulates
signage
by
zoning
District?
You
know
which
again
is
regulating
uses,
and
so
that
has
served
us
very
well
in
the
past.
E
If
you
know
say,
for
example,
single-family
residences
can
have
signs
up
to
two
square
feet,
an
area
if
they
want
to
say
advertise
some
sort
of
accessory
use,
that's
going
on
in
the
building
and
that
ensures
that
the
primary
use
of
the
building,
the
fact
that
it's
a
residence
isn't
being
detracted
from
you
know,
through
the
use
of
a
large
out
of
character,
sign
and
and
I
think.
That's
worked
very
well
for
us
so
far,
but
if
you,
you
know,
note
any
exceptions
to
that
and
you'd
like
to
see
those
addressed.
F
One
last
question:
it
seems
to
me
that
this,
your
the
regulations
that
you're
or
the
interpretation
so
do
not
necessarily
prohibit
any
specific
signs
or
am
I
missing,
something
that's
maybe
a
little
more
fine-grained.
It's.
E
A
little
more
fine-grained,
we
still
prohibit
backlit
signs,
and
we
were
asked
by
our
colleagues
to
make
That
explicit.
The
zoning
code
does
have
a
number
of
prohibitions
about
particular
signs,
but
when
it
comes
to
illuminated
signs,
a
colleague
in
code
development
asked
us
to
make
sure
that
backlit
signs
would
be.
You
know
very
explicitly
prohibited
here.
F
E
Been
there
so
many
times
and
now
I'm
trying
to
think
of
the
sign.
Our
definition
of
backlit
is
very
particular.
It's
not
necessarily
an
industry
standard,
but
the
city
of
minneapolis's
definition
of
backlit
science
in
our
Zone
code
is
a
sign
that
is
internally
illuminated,
but
the
entire
face
of
the
sign
allows
light
to
shine
through.
E
So
if
you
want
to
make
sure
your
sign
is
not
backlit.
What
you
do
is
you
install
an
opaque
face,
our
guidelines
that
can
have
letters
and
logos
cut
out,
so
only
a
portion
of
the
light
shines
through,
and
this
does
two
things
one.
It
cuts
down
on
light
pollution
and
number
two
it
prohibits
plastic
face
covers,
which
is
another
thing
in
our
these
standards.
That
is
also
still
prohibited
in
these
revised
guidelines
and
we
think
that
increases
the
quality
and
longevity
of
the
signs.
E
So
that's
another
example:
there
I
can't
think
of
mats
itself,
but
there's
some
areas
say,
for
example,
Channel
letter
signs
where
you
have
individual
painted
aluminum
letters.
Those
typically
have
a
translucent
face
and
those
still
can
have
a
translucent
face.
We've
interpreted
that
to
not
be
a
backlit
sign,
because
they're,
not
just
one
large
sign
board
with
an
immense
amount
of
light
shining
through
it.
There's
some
refinement
to
it
and
those,
quite
frankly,
have
been
used.
You
know
going
back
many
many
years.
E
You
can
see
those
you
know
with
sort
of
a
faceless
neon
application.
Well
back
into
the
1930s
like
on
the
gold
medal
flower
side,.
D
Yeah
that
actually
addresses
kind
of
one
of
my
questions
was
about
the
backlit.
It's
just
interesting
to
me
that
we
allow
pretty
much
any
other
form
of
Illumination,
but
not
backlit,
so
I
guess
I
I
kind
of
understand
that
I
I
don't
know,
particularly
like
that.
D
You
know
that
application
that
I
would
find
that
problematic.
But
I
did
want
to
ask
about
materiality,
and
this
is
kind
of
a
general
comment.
I
think
it
gets
tricky
to
enforce
when
we're
calling
out
specific
materials
and
I
noticed
on
kind
of
the
third
page
under
the
wall
signs
and
projecting
signs
that
we
called
out
specific
materials
that
are
acceptable
and
I.
Don't
know
if
there's
a
way
to
kind
of
make
that
a
little
more
open-ended,
because
I
think
you
know
when
we
start
calling
out
these
specific
materials
are
acceptable.
D
Sometimes
people
come
with
a
material
like
a
cement
board
or
something
that's
very
similar
to
An,
approved
or
a
knot,
desirable
material,
and
they
say
well,
it's
not
specifically
called
out
in
there
and
then
we
have
to
kind
of
interpret
so
I.
D
Think
one
of
my
concerns
is
just
the
calling
out
specific
materials,
and
if
we
need
to
kind
of
make
that
a
little
more
open-ended
and
say
you
know,
projecting
signs
may
be
constructed
of
blah
blah
blah
blah
blah
or
similar
materials
or
materials
similar
to
those
on
the
existing
building,
which
is
the
approach
that
was
taken
under
the
freestanding
sign.
Category.
C
Molly
I
found
your
memo
to
be
very
helpful
and
actually
the
attached
proposed
description
of
various
types
of
signs
just
from
an
educational
perspective,
of
what
they
all
are,
but
the
question
I
have
is,
and
it
makes
sense
the
idea
that
you're
trying
to
streamline
and
make
everything
you
know
work
more
easily,
there's
a
sentence
in
the
report
that
says
Heritage
preservation,
commission
decisions
regarding
signs
and
awnings
have
typically
followed
suit,
meaning
followed
suit
with
the
zoning
requirements.
C
E
Madam
chair
commissioner
strothers,
yes,
I
mean
we
have
eliminated
a
lot
of
those
conflicts.
We
could
maintain
them
if
we
feel
say,
for
example,
roof
signs
are
not
appropriate.
E
You
know,
but
as
soon
as
I
start
thinking
about
that,
I
start
thinking
about
you,
pillsbury's
best
flour
and
Gold
Medal
Flour
and
the
north
star
blanket
sign,
I
start
thinking
about
the
way
signs
were
much
more
permissive
in
our
historic
districts
and
landmarks.
Are
there
periods
of
significance?
Historically,
I
think
this
is
a
great
example.
We
certainly
don't
want
to
go
back
to
this.
E
You
know
mid-century
signage
proliferation
of
signage,
but
having
said
that,
if
we're
you
know
for
justifying
our
standards
based
upon
authenticity,
you
know
in
terms
of
trying
to
get
signage
more
for
identification
than
advertising.
It's
tough
to
do
so
when
we
consider
the
periods
of
significance
and
how
you
know
much
signage
we
had
during
those
times
in
terms
of
authenticity.
Like
commissioner
Sandoval's
statement
about
you
know
why
we
prohibit
backlit
signs.
You
know
that
is
another
interesting
question.
E
C
So
could
I
just
follow
up
if
there
have
been
decisions
where
the
HPC
hasn't
followed
suit?
C
Do
you
feel
like
the
proposed
signage
guidelines
would
allow
the
HPC
still
to
to
protect
whatever
they
were
trying
to
protect?
I?
Don't
know
that
this
has
happened
during
my
tenure,
so
I'm
not
really
sure
what
those
kinds
of
actions
were,
but
I'm
just
wondering
if
that's
the
case.
E
Absolutely
I
mean
this
commission
did.
Commissioner,
this
commission
did
review
the
Loring
theater.
You
know
the
proposed
Marquee
update
and
you
all
did
deny
that
application
for
a
new
signage,
so
I
think
that's
an
example
right
there
of
something
that
the
zoning
code
well,
there
would
have.
They
would
have
required
a
conditional
use
permit
through
the
zoning
code,
so
they
never
got
to
that
step,
but
that
you
still
as
a
commission,
retain
the
right
to
review
proposed
signage
through
a
Heritage
preservation
lens
and.
C
G
So
thanks
for
this
I
know,
this
has
been
a
lot
of
work
and
a
long
time
working
on
it
and
I
think
you've
got
this
mostly
already
touched
on
in
most
places
in
this,
but
I
just
want
to
underscore
you
know:
I'm
aligned
with
chair
Howard
I,
don't
really
care
about
new
signs.
G
I,
don't
want
to
review
signs,
I
care
about
historic
signs,
but
sometimes
we
get
so
bogged
down
by
these
conversations
about
signs,
I
care
about
the
buildings
and
so
to
the
extent
that
there's
underscoring
or
any
explicit
discussion
like
you
have
in
here
about
the
location
of
anchoring
in
masonry.
G
Things
like
that
to
make
sure
that
we,
to
the
extent
that
new
signs
are
being
added
to
our
historic
landmarks,
that
the
building
itself
is
protected
and
the
impact
because,
like
you're
saying
like
if,
if
we're
thinking
of
science
as
temporary
and
the
fact
that
they
may
come
off,
if
a
building
use
changes
which
the
expectation
of
our
work
here
is
that
the
buildings
stick
around
for
past
our
lifetime.
So
the
expectation
is
that
the
use
might
change.
G
Then
we
want
to
make
sure
that
we've
retained
that
structural
Integrity
of
the
building,
particularly
around
historic
features,
but
in
general
as
well
so
I,
think
you've
got
that
touched
on
in
several
different
places.
So
but
I
just
wanted
to
kind
of
make
that
General
comment
to
the
extent
that
that
can
be
underscored
in
areas.
I
think
that's
useful
to
do.
A
Thank
you,
Dr
smoli
I,
look
forward
to
seeing
how
this
makes
things
easier
for
both
you
and
for
us.
That
concludes
our
discussion
items
we'll
move
on
to
the
next
part
of
the
agenda,
which
is
under
announcements
and
for
the
2023
election
of
officers.
I
will
pass
the
proceedings
over
to
our
clerk
manager.
H
Thank
you,
madam
chair.
As
you
mentioned,
the
next
item
of
business
is
the
election
of
a
chair,
Vice,
chair
and
Secretary
of
the
Heritage
preservation
commission.
At
the
last
regular
meeting
of
this
body
on
January
17th,
the
commission
received
nominations
for
all
three
offices.
The
nominations
that
have
been
submitted
are
as
follows:
Barbara
Howard
for
chair
Kimberly
sandbold
for
vice
chair
and
Claire
Vander
Ike
for
secretary,
considering
that
the
body
has
only
made
nominations.
One
nomination
per
seat
I
will
first
check
if
there
are
any
additional
nominations.
H
If
there
are
no
additional
nominations,
I'll
entertain
a
motion
to
adopt
the
nominations
as
a
slate.
If
there
are
any
additional
nominations,
we'll
proceed
through
each
office
in
the
order
of
chair
Vice,
chair
and
then
secretary.
So
at
this
point,
I
will
check
with
the
body
if
there
are
any
additional
nominations
at
this
time.
H
H
H
You
is
there
any
further
discussion
on
these
nominations.
Seeing
no
further
discussion,
I'll
ask
the
clerk
to
call
the
roll.
B
H
That
motion
carries
congratulations
to
the
newly
elected
officers
and
I'll
turn
the
meeting
back
to
chair
Howard.
Thank.
A
You
Ken
and
I
want
to
thank
all
of
the
preservation
commission
for
your
faith
in
in
the
officers
and
I
want
to
thank
the
officers
for
your
continued
service
to
the
commission
and
to
the
citizens
of
of
Minneapolis.
Next,
we'll
do
any
kind
of
announcements
from
staff
or
Commissioners,
starting
with
staff
Annie.
I
I
We
have
a
reason
for
it
in
in
all
honesty,
they
were
getting
lost
in
the
shuffle
and
when
properties
changed
ownership.
Usually
the
new
owner
was
not
aware
that
there
was
one
and
they
were
hard
to
track,
and
we
felt
that
allowing
greater
flexibility
for
changing
ownership
and
and
staff
would
would
be
more
beneficial,
so
anyways
that
was
the
other
big
change.
I
I
also
just
really
have
one
other
update.
We
held
a
kickoff
meeting
this
afternoon
for
the
Washburn
for
Oaks
design
guidelines,
so
we
will
be
getting
an
updated
schedule
for
the
engagement
portion
of
that
project
and
so
for
the
two
Commissioners
that
volunteered
commissioner
Mastin
and
chair
Howard.
We
will
get
that
information
to
you
as
soon
as
we
can,
so
you
can
adequately
plan
no
further
updates
from
staff.
Thank.
G
I
have
a
question:
did
I
see
an
email
saying
that
we
don't
have
agenda
items
for
the
next
meeting?
That
is.
G
I
G
A
All
right
with
that,
and
let's
see
where
are
my
my
notes-
we
have
completed
all
items
on
the
agenda
for
this
meeting.
I
will
ask
members
and
staff
one
more
time
if
there
are
any
other
matters
that
must
come
before
this
meeting,
seeing
no
other
business
to
come
before
this
meeting
without
objection,
I
will
declare
this
meeting
adjourned.
The
February
14th
meeting
has
been
canceled
due
to
lack
of
items
and
the
next
regular
meeting
is
Tuesday
February
28th.