►
From YouTube: June 6, 2023 Heritage Preservation Commission
Description
Additional information at:
https://lims.minneapolismn.gov
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A
A23
regular
meeting
in
the
Minneapolis
Heritage
preservation
commission
for
the
record,
my
name
is
Barbara
Howard
and
I
serve
as
chair
of
the
commission.
Just
a
reminder
to
please
silence
your
cell
phones
and
other
electronic
devices
and
to
speak
into
the
microphone.
Whether
you're
here
in
the
dice
or
giving
testimonies
today.
Would
the
clerk
please
call
the
roll
so
that
we
may
verify
the
presence
of
a
quorum.
A
B
A
A
This
application
is
for
a
certificate
of
appropriateness.
Item
number
four
will
be
discussed.
Item
number
five
1407
Nicollet,
Avenue,
Ward
7..
This
application
is
also
for
a
certificate
of
appropriateness
and
item
number
five
will
be
discussed.
Item
number
six
update
to
the
2003
Minneapolis
Heritage;
preservation,
commission's
design
guidelines
for
on-premise
designs
and
awnings
all
words.
A
So
the
proposed
agenda,
the
following
items
will
have
staff
presentation,
public
comment
and
commission
discussion
in
action.
Item
number.
Four
905
Park
Avenue
Ward,
seven,
eight
word:
seven
item
number:
five:
1407,
Nicollet,
Avenue,
Ward,
7,
item
number,
six
update
to
the
2003
Minneapolis
Heritage;
preservation,
commission's
design
guidelines
for
on-premise
signs
and
awnings.
That
is
all
words.
Commissioners,
may
have
a
motion
to
approve
the
proposed
agenda.
A
A
A
You,
commissioner,
mast
in
any
discussion,
seeing
none
all
in
favor,
say:
aye
aye,
aye,
those
opposed,
say,
nay,
any
abstentions,
nice
room
of
stains.
The
minutes
are
approved
before
I
open
the
hearing
to
public
comments.
Let
me
summarize
the
process
for
conducting
public
hearings.
We
will
take
each
of
the
agenda
items
in
order
planning
staff
present.
The
report
and
Commissioners
ask
questions
of
Staff,
then
I'll
open
the
public
hearing
and
we'll
hear
from
the
applicants
and
Commissioners
may
ask
questions
of
the
applicant
after
that.
We'll
invite
other
public
comments.
A
If
you
wish
to
speak,
you
need
to
do
two
things
be
sure
to
sign
in
on
the
sheet
over
by
the
clerk.
If
you
haven't
done
this
already,
you
can
also
do
that.
Afterward
when
you
come
up
to
testify,
be
sure
to
state
your
name
and
address
for
the
record,
and
please
keep
your
comments
specific
to
the
application.
That's
before
us
today.
A
If
you
happen
to
have
materials
to
hand
out
also
hand
those
to
the
clerk
so
that
they
can
be
distributed
to
the
commission
and
also
entered
into
the
public
record,
do
not
approach
the
Commissioners
on
the
dice
after
public
comments
are
complete.
I'll
close
the
hearing
and
Commissioners
will
just
deliberate
and
act
on
the
applications
before
us.
A
F
Go
ahead
good
afternoon,
chair
Howard
and
Commissioners,
my
name
is
Erin
K
and
I'm,
a
city
planner
in
the
historic
preservation,
subsection
of
the
Department
of
Community
planning
and
economic
development
or
cped
I'm.
Here
today
to
present
a
certificate
of
appropriateness,
application
for
the
property
located
at
905
Park
Avenue
South
in
the
9th
Street
South
Historic
District
staff
have
not
received
any
public
correspondence
related
to
this
project.
F
The
subject
property,
historically
known
as
kavalson
electric,
is
located
at
905
Park,
Avenue
South.
It
was
designed
by
thorshaven
Cerny
built
in
1957
and
is
a
non-contributing
resource
to
the
9th
Street
South
historic
district.
The
west
elevation
is
shown
here
in
the
bottom
left
corner
of
the
slide.
The
applicant
is
proposing
several
exterior
alterations,
including
replacement
of
the
main
entrance
Bay
on
the
west
elevation
updates
to
the
roof
and
changes
to
fenestration
on
the
rear,
starting
with
the
main
entrance
Bay,
the
applicant
proposes
to
replace
the
aluminum
framed
windows
and
door
in
kind.
F
F
F
The
proposed
design
retains
the
current
configuration
of
the
windows
and
doors
and
is
compatible.
The
applicant
is
proposing
to
add
a
horizontal
mullion
to
reinforce
the
framing
system
at
the
height
of
the
mullion
in
the
adjacent
window
base.
However,
to
differentiate
this
replacement
entrance
Bay
from
the
original
design
of
the
building
staff
recommends
conditioning
that
the
mullion
be
installed
at
the
height
of
the
transom.
F
Instead
on
the
roof,
the
applicant
proposes
to
remove
the
existing
skylights,
which
date
from
Circa
2003
to
2006
and
are
deteriorating
patch,
the
roof
deck
and
recover
it
with
a
new
EPDM
roofing
membrane,
replace
the
existing
rooftop
mechanical
units.
Add
an
elevator
overrun
that
will
be
one
foot,
ten
inches
tall
and
add
a
solar
panel
array
which
is
depicted
by
the
blue
rectangles
on
this
aerial
image.
Staff
finds
these
changes
to
be
appropriate
and
will
not
be
visible
from
the
public
right-of-way.
F
The
applicant
also
proposes
to
remove
the
original
brick
chimney
due
to
cracking
and
deterioration
and
because
it
is
no
longer
used,
the
chimney
is
partially
visible
in
a
direct
view
of
the
building
but
minimally
visible
at
an
angle,
staff
finds
the
removal
to
be
appropriate,
given
its
condition,
lack
of
use
and
non-contributing
status
of
the
subject,
property
on
the
rear
elevation.
The
applicant
proposes
to
replace
several
fenestration
openings
and
add
a
new
window
on
the
first
story
of
the
two-story
portion.
F
The
single
leaf
steel,
pedestrian
door
would
be
replaced
in
kind,
The,
partially
glazed
metal
overhead
door
to
the
right
would
be
replaced
with
a
metal
overhead
door
and
then
on
the
first
story
of
the
one-story
portion.
The
right
metal
overhead
garage
door
would
be
replaced
in
kind.
These
changes
are
on
the
rear
elevation
and
will
be
minimally
visible
from
the
public
right-of-way
Additionally.
The
changes
to
be
made
are
generally
in
kind
and
will
resolved
deteriorating
conditions
and
or
security
issues.
F
The
applicant
also
proposed
us
to
add
a
new,
fixed
aluminum
framed
window
at
the
North
or
right
end
of
the
second
story
and
a
new
louvered
vent
on
the
East
elevation
of
the
one
story.
Wing
both
alterations
require
some
removal
of
historic
fabric.
However,
they
are
on
the
rear,
elevation
and
related
to
the
Adaptive
reuse
of
the
building,
thereby
complying
with
the
design
guidelines
for
this
District.
F
One
story:
Wing,
the
concrete
masonry
units
shall
be
set
back,
a
minimum
of
one
inch
from
the
original
wall
to
differentiate
the
infill
from
the
original
building
material
number.
Three.
The
solar
panels
will
not
be
visible
from
the
public
right-of-way
and
then
the
standard
two
conditions
for
approval.
This
concludes
my
presentation.
I'm
happy
to
stay
for
questions
and
the
applicant
is
also
available.
G
Thank
you,
chair,
Howard
I
have
a
couple
of
questions
for
staff,
one
in
the
staff
report.
It
says
that
the
garage,
the
one
story,
a
portion
on
the
back
of
the
building
may
have
been
historic.
Was
that
in
reference
do
we
do?
We
believe
that
that
one
story
portion
exists
from
the
period
of
significance
which
goes
up
to
1915.?
G
F
Chair
Howard,
chair
Vice,
Chair,
say
about
thanks
for
that
question.
The
wing
is
believed
to
be
original
to
the
building
built
in
1957,
not
date
to
the
period
of
significance
for
the
historic
district.
G
Then
I
have
one
more
question
in
the
condition
number
one
when
you
say
that
the
mullion
shall
be
placed
at
the
height
of
the
transom
above
the
entry
door.
What
you're
saying
is
that
the
horizontal
Malian
that's
being
proposed
additional
into
that
storefront
system
would
align
with
the
top
of
the
door
and
so
that
it
would
be
consistent
with
that
mullion.
That's
above
the
door.
That's
correct!
Okay,.
A
E
All
right,
commission
I
am
Rachel
Peterson
with
Hess
racing
company,
we're
at
100
North
First
Street
here
in
Minneapolis
I'm
here
to
provide
mostly
a
project
update,
and
then
we
have
a
request
for
you,
but
our
intent
with
this
project
was
to
have
it
on
the
consent
agenda
today
and
then
our
project
team
was
made
aware
yesterday
that
the
proposed
CMU
infill
in
this
Bay
had
already
been
constructed,
which
was
news
to
us,
and
you
know
misunderstanding
about
what
what
required
HBC
review
on
the
the
part
of
the
property
manager
and
also
there
have
been
some
security
issues
with
this
wood
infill.
E
There
have
been
several
break-ins
to
the
building
over
the
winter
and
in
the
past
couple
of
months,
and
so
the
contractor
went
a
little
bit
Rogue
and
built
the
CMU
infill
wall,
built
it
flush
with
the
facade,
the
plane
of
the
facade,
and
so
because
that
is
contrary
to
the
condition
recommended
by
staff
that
we
were
prepared
to
accept.
We
thought
we
should
come
in
and
discuss
this
with
you
all
today.
E
So
here's
what
that
wall
currently
looks
like
and
I
just
wanted
to
point
out
to
you.
A
couple
of
things
as
you
consider
this,
the
header
across
this
opening
is
Brick
and
there's
also
a
metal
lintel
that
runs
across
the
top
of
that
opening
that
differentiate
it
from
the
concrete
block
infill
the
the
jam
to
the
right
of
the
infield
opening
is
also
a
smooth
concrete.
So
we've
got
some
additional
differentiation
there
and
I've
got
a
closer
up
photo
of
that.
E
So
that's
all
to
say
that
this
opening
and
its
Dimension
will
still
be
legible,
as
is
even
with
the
facade
being
repainted
as
proposed,
but
currently
does
not
have
that
additional
reveal.
That
was
conditioned.
E
This
is
you
know,
it's
a
reversible
infill
this.
This
alteration
that
has
happened
it
can
be
removed
and
I
also
wanted
to
emphasize
that
this
is
the
rear
facade
of
a
not
contributing
resource
in
a
historic
district.
E
It
is
really
not
visible
from
the
street.
I
included
some
additional
photos
here
on
the
left.
You
can
see
from
the
the
primary
facade
along
Park,
Avenue
and
even
from
the
alleyway
in
the
back.
This
is
pretty
tucked
in
to
the
L
of
the
building
and
is
not
particularly
visible.
E
So
our
request
is
that
we
strike
that
condition
requiring
the
reveal
if
it's
amenable
to
you
and
allow
this
wall
to
remain
as
it
is,
it
is
a
cost
concern
for
the
owners
to
take
it
down
and
rebuild
it
I'm
here
for
questions.
We
also
have
two
of
the
project
Architects
here
for
questions.
If
you
have
any
concerns
or
questions
about
why
they
designed
it
to
be
flush
to
begin
with,
but
any
questions.
G
A
G
I
do
all
the
Talking,
considering
that
the
back
portion
of
the
building
the
one
story
is,
you
know
it's
a
the
whole
structure
is
a
non-contributing
structure
and
that
the
back
portion
is
not
visible
from
the
street
and
in
public
right
away.
I
really
don't
have
any
concerns
with
the
infill
is
done.
Obviously,
we
don't
like
to
see
work
done
before
we
approve,
but
I
understand.
G
Sometimes
things
happen,
so
I
think
I'm
I'm
perfectly
fine,
with
kind
of
striking
that
second
condition
so
I'm
going
to
go
ahead
and
make
a
motion
that
we
approve
the
certificate
of
appropriateness
with
the
conditions.
One
three
four
and
five
as
listed
in
our
agenda
and
striking
condition
number
two.
D
D
D
D
A
A
The
staff
report
is
presented
by
John
Smalley,
and
this
is,
if
I
didn't
say
it
before
it's
an
application
for
a
certificate
of
appropriateness.
H
The
learning
theater
was
completed
in
1920
as
a
silent
film
theater
in
Vaudeville
house
for
owners,
Finkelstein
and
Ruben
built
in
the
classical
Revival
Style
with
Boze
Arts
features.
The
theater
features
the
era
of
reflects
the
era
of
progress
experienced
in
Loring
Park
during
the
turn
of
the
century.
When
the
area
developed
into
established
commercial
and
private
properties
in
1943,
the
theater's
original
rectangular
canopy,
turned
Marquee,
which
you
can
see
in
the
left
side
of
your
screen,
was
replaced
with
a
trapezoidal
marquee,
which
you
can
see
on
your
right
as
it
currently
appears.
H
Due
to
the
rise
in
popularity
of
Television,
the
theater
was
shut
down
in
1955,
and
that
is
the
end
of
the
period
of
significance
for
this
Landmark.
It
was
sold
and
converted
into
a
church
by
the
Evangelical
Association.
Since
then,
the
theater
has
been
rehabilitated
and
renamed
the
music
box
theater
and
is
now
currently
owned
by
Wooddale
Church.
H
There
was
a
period
of
time
in
the
1980s
where
it
was
also
known.
As
the
cricket
theme
on
November
29th
of
last
year,
the
HPC
denied
the
applicant
certificate
of
appropriateness
application
to
replace
the
historic
Marquee
with
a
new
Marquee
that
displays
two
Dynamic
signs
and
other
signage
in
making
its
determination
in
November,
the
commission
discussed
the
lack
of
evidence
provided
regarding
the
deterioration
of
the
Marquee
itself.
The
applicant
has
since
prepared
a
conditions,
analysis
and
proposed
changes
from
the
previous
submittal
in
this
application
before
you
this
evening,.
H
B
H
That's
as
it
appeared
in
1955,
and
this
is
as
it
appears
today
on
the
left-
they'll-
be
replacing
that
with
a
new
trapezoidal
painted
aluminum
sheet
metal
Marquee,
both
possessing
the
same
dimensions.
The
existing
and
proposed
signage
differ,
however,
most
notably
in
the
proposed
replacement
of
two
backlit
manual.
Changeable
copy
signs,
they'll
be
replacing
those
with
Dynamic
signs,
and
you
can
see
on
the
left,
those
backlit
changeable
copy
signs
in
white
and
on
the
right.
H
H
The
current
proposal
Devils
differs
from
the
November
2022
proposal
in
three
ways:
number
one:
the
proposed
canopy
signed
materials
have
been
changed
from
trimless
face,
lit
Channel
letters
with
routed
acrylic
faces
to
open,
face,
Channel
letters
with
faux
neon
banding
inside
each
letter
and
those
canopy
signs,
or
you
know,
marquee
signs,
Atop,
The
Marquee,
you
know
for
lack
of
a
better
term.
Are
these
three
up
here:
music
box,
the
large
M
and
music
box
over
on
the
right?
H
Second
change
from
in
this
proposal
that
that
is
different
from
the
last
proposal
is
the
dynamic
sign
sizes
have
been
reduced.
They're
now
eight
and
a
half
eight
feet.
Five
inches
wide
by
three
feet:
eight
inches
high
distinctly
smaller
than
the
last
iteration
of
signage
proposed
and
then
in
terms
of
changes.
The
Third
change
the
applicant
has
demonstrated,
through
their
conditions,
analysis
that
the
Marquee
sheet
metal,
especially
the
soffits
sheet
metal
tiling,
is
non-historic
and
Beyond
repair
in
terms
of
public
comments.
H
H
Photographic
evidence
indicates
that
only
two
of
the
four
steel
cables
that
held
up
the
original
1920
theater
canopy
turned
Marquee
remain.
You
can
see
the
four
cables
there
and
the
two
cables
that
are
remaining
here.
The
applicant
proposes
to
preserve
only
these
elements,
along
with
two
cantilever
joists,
which
are
not
visible
they're
set
inside
the
Marquee
itself.
H
The
exterior
signage
and
illumination
on
the
Marquee
have
changed
completely.
However.
However,
the
form
of
the
Marquee
remains
white,
backlit
sign
panels
have
replaced,
have
been
replaced
framing
for
the
backlit
sign
panels
possessing
a
6x7
configuration
in
1955,
which
you
can
see
on
the
left
was
replaced
with
a
similar
panel
with
framing
in
an
8x7
configuration
in
the
1970s,
which
you
can
see
on
your
right.
H
Those
bare
bulbs
were
replaced
by
1970
with
a
smaller
amount
of
larger
inset
lights.
You
can
see
here
in
the
soffit
of
the
canopy
and
in
today's
canopy
as
well.
H
Diagonally
arranged
lettering
on
the
front
fascia
of
the
Marquee
was
replaced
by
1970
with
a
white
backlit
sign
panel
with
framing
for
clip-in
letters,
then
it
was
replaced
again
between
July
of
2021
and
October
of
2022,
with
a
black
backlit
sign
panel
for
Wooddale
church,
and
this
is
the
Marquis
present
condition.
As
you
can
see,
on
the
right.
H
H
Since
the
November
2022
certificate
of
appropriateness
application
denial,
the
applicant
has
demonstrated
that
the
removal
and
replacement
of
the
historic
Marquee
inclusive
of
its
structure
from
1943
is
warranted.
The
applicant
has
provided
a
conditions,
analysis
that
demonstrates
the
significant
deterioration
of
multiple
components
of
the
Marquee
and
evidence
that
the
sheathing
materials
are
non-historic
due
to
the
deterioration
demonstrated.
The
Marquis
replacement
with
a
new
Marquee
of
the
same
dimensions,
as
noted
in
the
applicant's
analysis,
will
generally
maintain
the
landmark's
integrity.
H
H
theaters
during
this
time
period,
utilize
manual
changeable
copy
signs,
not
Dynamic
signs,
both
of
which
will
total
almost
62
square
feet
in
area
just
14
square
feet
high
the
maximum
amount
of
all
building
mounted
signage
permitted
by
the
zoning
code
on
this
building
by
replacing
the
manual
changeable
copy
signs
with
large
dynamic
signage,
the
Integrity
of
design,
materials,
workmanship
and
feeling
will
be
compromised.
The
applicant
has
submitted
a
letter
from
the
sign
maker
daktronics
indicating
that
they
can
disable
the
dynamic
signs
ability
to
display
animated
content.
H
H
For
this
reason,
cped
recommends
the
Heritage
preservation.
Commission
approved
the
certificate
of
appropriateness
to
replace
the
historic
Marquee
with
a
new
Marquee
that
displays
two
Dynamic
signs
and
other
signage
subject
to
the
conditions
of
approval
listed
in
the
staff
report,
which
again
notes
that
we
recommend
denial
of
the
dynamic
sign,
request,
I'm
available
for
any
questions
you
may
have
and
I
know.
The
applicant
team
and
a
few
members
of
the
public
are
here
who
would
like
to
speak
to
you
as.
A
J
Thank
you
Commissioners.
My
name
is
Trent
palmerg
I'm
with
1407
Nicollet
Avenue,
the
music
box
theater
in
Wooddale
church
I'm,
also
a
resident
of
Minneapolis
with
my
wife
and
our
son
Finn,
who
is
now
one
year
old,
I
know
when
I
came
last
time
we
had
just
a
newborn,
but
he's
somehow
one
year
old.
Already
we
live
at
4619
Oakland
Avenue
on
the
south
side.
J
First
of
all,
I
want
to
thank
you
for
your
service
of
this
city
by
being
on
the
historic
preservation
committee.
This
is
an
important
task
that
you
have,
and
it
means
a
lot
to
me
personally,
because
I
love
this.
The
the
history
of
this
city,
I
mean
this
room
itself
was
designed
by
the
same
Architects
that
designed
the
Loring
Theater,
which
is
now
the
music
box
theater
the
historic
Integrity
of
this
property
matters
it
matters
to
me
personally.
J
J
J
So
let
me
tell
you
the
story
about
what
is
the
music
box
theater.
But
what
was
the
luring
theater
in
1920
on
December
4th?
It
was
opened
as
one
of
the
most
premier
silent
film
theaters
in
the
entire
country.
It
was
known
as
the
marble
Palace
and,
if
you've
ever
been
inside,
you
know
the
grand
marble
staircase
and
the
banisters
we
have
even
restored,
and
it
still
has
that
that
Glory,
but
just
as
movie
and
film
and
Technology
changes
over
time.
So
too
did
the
theater
and
in
1929,
when
sound
was
added
to
movies.
J
The
theater
went
through
its
first
major
renovation
and
they
renovated
the
Marquee.
They
renovated
the
interior
they
renovated
from.
We
know
of
some
of
the
artwork
on
the
interior
of
the
theater,
as
well
as
movies
came
out
to
be
talkies,
then
in
the
1940s
they
renovated.
Additionally,
and
you
continue
to
see
over
decade
over
decade,
the
managers
of
this
property
renovated
it,
knowing
that
they
were
in
a
commercial
district
and
renovated
specific
to
the
Marquee.
You
know,
as
John
stated
in
his
report
in
1955.
J
Really
the
period
of
significance
in
terms
of
this
historic
significance
ended
because
the
the
railroad
Tycoon
the
streetcars
had
ended
with
the
bus
and
that
nearly
wiped
out
the
theater,
and
so
it
was
acquired
by
a
church
in
the
1950s
which,
through
the
1980s,
continued
to
operate
there.
That
church,
from
the
best
that
we
know
of
record,
also
modified
the
Marquee
into
the
1970s,
which,
as
the
staff
report
correctly
notes,
changed
everything
about
it,
including
that
manual
copy
sign,
was
changed
as
well
into
the
1990s
in
1991.
J
It
was
designated
as
the
facade
being
a
Historic
Landmark
and
then,
as
the
city
report
correctly,
shows
the
staff
report
in
1993.
It
was
changed
again
by
an
owner
that
is
not
Wooddale
Church
by
an
owner
by
the
name
of
Gary,
Kurt
and
added
the
neon
lights
changed
the
Marquee
again
added
coloring,
and
so
what
we
came
in
when
we
acquired
the
property
in
2018
was
a
marquee
that
had
been
completely
changed,
but
also
I
noticed.
It
had
been
completely
changed
since
its
Inception
in
1920.
J
There
was
some
kind
of
strong
wind
that
came
through
and
probably
blew
those
down
off
of
the
top
of
the
Marquee,
because
you
don't
see
them
anymore
when,
10
years
later,
they
renovated
the
entire
thing
and
I
noticed
as
they
renovated
they
added
on
height
and
they
added
on
more
places
for
dynamic
messaging.
That's
what
dynamic
means.
Dynamic
just
means
changing
it's
a
dynamic
sign
now,
Dynamic
signage
is
what
we
aim
to
preserve.
J
With
this
update
to
the
music
box
theater,
you
can
see
that
they
could
put
letters
on
the
top
now
now
they
could
put
letters
facing
north
and
south
and
I,
don't
think
they
could
fit
any
more
posters
or
anything
on
the
outside
of
this
theater
it
was
a
Vaudeville
show.
There
was
multiple
shows,
20
cents
anytime,
you
could
see
a
show
there
and
it's
seen
that
they
were
doing
more
messaging
to
continue
to
use
the
theater
as
a
Community
Asset
into
the
1950s.
J
Cantilever
joists
were
removed,
and
then
it
became
this
this
three-sided
shape,
but
if
you
notice
the
very
front
of
it,
they
wanted
to
preserve
to
be
the
iconic
branding
of
the
theater,
so
that
people
going
there
and
people
in
the
community
would
know
what
theater
that
was.
It
says,
lowering
across
the
front
and
then
on
the
sides.
J
There's
these
real
cool,
Hollywood
kind
of
Channel
letters
that
they
put
on
top
of
it
to
show
that
it
was
the
lowering
feeder
as
well
and
as
you
can
see,
from
the
nighttime
photograph,
those
lit
up,
in
fact
the
entire
underside
of
it
lit
up
with
incandescent
bulbs
as
well.
If
you
notice
even
what
they
were
doing
at
the
theater,
it
was
a
community
event.
It
was
a
cooking
class.
J
Now
we
don't
have
a
ton
of
record
on
this,
but
we
know
that
it
was
changed
in
the
1970s
I
find
it
interesting.
We
don't
have
a
single
photo
from
the
1970s
or
80s,
where
any
channel
letters
were
ever
up
on
this
Marquee.
From
my
experience,
it's
because
they
don't
work.
The
letters
fall
off
when
you
have
to
put
them
on
manually
and
a
wind
comes
through.
They
fall
off
in
the
Minnesota
winters
and
the
freeze
thaw
temperatures
they
warp
and
every
four
or
five
years.
J
You
have
to
re-get
up
there
and
weld
them
together,
because
it's
like
a
1940s
technology
that
just
wasn't
carried
over
into
the
future,
the
1970s
we
don't
see
it
being
used.
In
fact,
in
the
1980s,
you
see
a
whole
different
technique
being
used.
Now
the
theater
had
printed
a
separate
sign
to
inset
it
into
the
Marquee
to
let
people
know
what
that
was.
If
you
notice
as
well
from
the
1970s,
the
front
of
the
sign
had
completely
changed
as
well.
They
removed
that
iconic
theater
branding
and
then
it's
just
it's
kind
of
boring.
J
It's
kind
of
blah.
It's
just
three
sides
all
in
white,
then,
as
you
get
to
the
1990s,
you
see
Triple
Espresso,
the
highly
caffeinated
comedy
that
I'm
sure
we
all
saw
they
used
the
same
tactic.
They
made
it
even
more
Dynamic,
more
flashing
bulbs
neon,
but
then
I
assume
the
ineffectiveness
of
these
Channel
letters.
They
just
took
signage
and
they
inset
it
into
the
Marquee
and
that's
the
current
Marquee
that
we
have,
albeit
much
more
deteriorated.
J
I
won't
go
through
these
slides
again
because
they
are
the
same
from
the
architecture
report
from
Miller
Dunwoody
that
we
already
have
so
I
won't
waste
time
on
that,
but
they
found
conclusively
which
I
know
is
the
point
of
contention
at
the
November
hearing
that
all
of
the
material
up
there
save
the
two
I-beams
that
it
gets
mounted
onto
jutting
out
from
the
from
the
building
and
the
two
candidly
rejoiced.
We
intend
to
keep.
J
So
I
want
to
talk
for
a
moment
given
that
history,
here's
how
we
designed
this
based
on
the
guidelines.
We
picked
one
one
Focus
for
this
and
said
we
want
to
design
this
to
honor
the
past.
Yet
we
have
to
build
it
for
sustainable
present
and
future,
and
so
we
chose
that
iconic
design
from
the
1940s
or
50s
whenever
they
updated
that
and
we
wanted
to
bring
it
into
today
and
so
what
we
did
is
we
brought
back
the
iconic
front
of
it,
so
people
knowing
what
the
theater
would
be.
J
So
it
says
music,
box
theater
on
the
front
of
it.
We
brought
back
those
big
Hollywood
Channel
letter
name
of
the
theater
on
the
sides,
we're
keeping
the
name
music
boxes.
It's
been
there
since
the
1980s,
but
as
I'll
talk
about
more,
we
had
to
choose
materials
and
design
with
an
eye
of
being
good
City
residents,
really
good
Global
residence
as
well.
We
have
to
choose
sustainable
materials
that
align
with
the
city's
2040
plan
that
align
with
the
Loring
Park
master
plan
as
well.
J
J
We
want
to
preserve
the
history,
but
how
do
we
do
that
in
such
a
way
that
this
theater
thrives
and
is
preserved
for
generations
to
come,
and
so
this
is
the
design
that
we
really
came
up
with,
as
you
see
on
the
left,
that
is
the
what
we
were
aiming
for
in
terms
of
the
design
features
and
on
the
right.
That's
what
we
produced
the
iconic
branding
in
the
front,
the
channel
letters
on
top
and
then
these
Dynamic
signs
again,
which
means
changing
what's
unique
about
these-
is
that
they
are
digital.
J
J
We
really
wanted
to
have
a
marquee
that
honored
the
past
that
allows
for
ease
of
communication
notice,
how
in
every
decade
they
changed
the
Marquee
for
more
communication
for
more
Community
engagement
they
built
on
they
built
up,
if
anything,
it's
less
than
probably
what
they
would
say
if
they
were
before
you
from
the
1950s
and
lastly,
environmental
sustainability
is
very
important
for
us.
I,
don't
know
if
you've
been
getting
all
the
alerts
like
I
do
every
morning
about
air
quality
alerts.
This
is
a
real
deal.
J
J
That
is
a
goal
of
the
city's
2040
plan.
That
is
a
goal
of
the
Loring
Park
master
plan,
and
it
is
a
goal
that
we
have
not
as
just
a
historic
property
owner.
We
really
see
ourselves
as
a
historic
property
Steward,
and
this
is
a
wise
decision
that
we
want
to
make,
but
it's
certainly
not
a
decision
that
we're
making
on
our
own.
There
are
precedents
all
over
the
United
States
that
this
is
the
direction
it's
moving
in,
because
it's
wise
for
the
property.
J
J
These
screens,
as
I'll,
explain,
have
a
lot
of
functionality
to
where
you
notice
it
doesn't
look
like
Times
Square,
which
I
think
maybe
could
be
a
fear
that
the
staff
report
would
try
to
project
that
they
are
rapidly
changing,
and
it's
going
to
look
like
Times
Square,
that's
not
how
these
work
they
function.
Just
like
your
smartphone,
just
like
an
iPhone
or
an
Android
phone
when
you're
out
in
the
bright
it
will
automatically
adjust.
If
it's
dark,
you
can
adjust
it
up.
These
are
all
settings
that
can
be
maintained
within
City
policy.
J
The
palace
was
renovated
and
they
specifically
chose
to
include
a
digital
message
board
and
that
is
in
Saint
Paul.
You
know,
another
story
is
the
Lebowski
Center
in
Owasso
Michigan.
They
have
a
very
similar
story,
except
theirs
is
much
more
tragic
of
their
Marquee.
It
burned
down,
and
so
they
needed
to
figure
out
how
they're
going
to
replace
it,
and
they
did
it
with
one
of
these
signs.
One
of
the
cool
things
about
it
is
you
can
make
these
look
like
the
old
time.
J
Even
it
says,
software
allows
it
to
be
programmed
with
lettering
and
copies.
The
original
Marquis
look
and
feel
this
is
one
of
the
benefits
of
being
able
to
leverage
digital
technology
to
get
its
benefits
yet
preserve
the
history
of
this,
and
this
theater
has
been
completely
revamped
and
restored
in
the
commercial
District
of
this
town.
J
These
Marquees
are
not
like
the
ones
you
see
at
a
gas
station.
I
remember
the
first
time
I
heard
about
this
I
said
I.
Don't
think
we
want
that
at
the
theater.
If
this
is
just
going
to
look
like
what
you
see
at
like
a
Holiday
gas
station,
they
are
much
more
advanced
than
that.
You
know
the
Billboards
that
you
may
see
on
the
highway.
The
one
we've
proposed
to
put
in
on
our
Marquee
is
twice
the
pixel
density.
J
J
They
were
redesigning
their
Marquee
and
they
have
digital
messaging
boards
for
the
different
community
events
that
they
do
and
they
were
allowed
to
have
this.
It's
the
Uptown
Theater
in
Kansas,
City
Kansas,
you
know
I
could
have
put
in
50
more
slides
every
major
city.
These
are
being
implemented
because
it's
a
wise
decision
to
preserve
history,
yet
build
it
for
a
sustainable
future,
so
that
historic
properties
can
be
properly
and
effectively
maintained.
But
then
they
can
be
there
for
generations
to
come,
and
that's
that's
our
heart
in
stewarding.
J
J
the
guidelines
from
the
Secretary
of
the
Interior
State
quote,
a
property
will
be
used
as
it
was
historically.
A
dynamic
message
center
is
historic.
We
are
preserving
the
historic
nature
of
this
Marquee
to
inform
the
community
about
what's
happening
in
the
theater
and
to
do
it
in
a
way
that
is
safe
and
sustainable.
J
J
You
know
that
it's
even
been
updated
after
it
has
been
designated
a
Historic
Landmark
in
the
1990s
in
the
staff
report.
I
would
just
respectfully
disagree
because
they
choose
a
date
and
they
make
the
assertion
that
the
1943
Marquee
was
not
the
original
Marquee
built
with
the
theater
in
1920.
However,
it
has
acquired
significance
of
its
own
right
by
telling
the
evolution
and
development
of
this
theater
from
silent
film
to
full
color,
Motion
Pictures,
and
while
that
may
be
true,
that's
also
conjecture.
J
J
It's
one
of
the
most
amazing
things
about
the
historic
record
of
this
theater
is
that
103
years
later,
it
is
still
a
Community
Asset.
It
is
still
being
used
as
a
mixed
use,
space
for
the
City
of
Minneapolis
and
for
its
neighborhood.
That's
what
truly
makes
it
great
simply
put.
The
theater
was
not
built
to
support
its
Marquee.
J
J
Second
I'd
ask
for
you
to
consider
the
marketplace.
Competition.
Other
theaters
within
Minneapolis
are
being
allowed
to
operate
in
a
better,
a
faster,
a
cheaper,
a
more
environmentally
sustainable
and
a
safer
way,
while
historic
feeders
are
not
wouldn't
we
want
to
take
historic,
theaters
these
great
City
assets
and
not
put
them
at
a
economic
competitive
disadvantage.
Because
of
this
third
I'd
ask
you
to
consider
the
precedent
from
locally
historically
designated
theaters,
the
city
10
minutes
away.
St
Paul
has
done
this
in
multiple
theaters,
including
with
public
money.
J
J
You
remember
when
Hamilton
came
to
town
just
a
month
ago,
and
what
did
the
Orpheum
do
they
printed
signs
and
they
have
fixed
them
over
the
channel
lettering
of
their
Marquee
and
when
historic
theaters
have
to
do
that,
it's
an
increased
cost,
it's
more
stuff
that
ends
up
in
our
landfills
and
it's
more
time
on
staff
that
have
to
get
up
on
a
ladder
and
do
this
stuff.
The
current
use
even
would
show
historic.
Theaters
are
struggling
with
this,
and
this
is
a
wise
investment
Fifth
and,
as
you
consider
the
maintenance
costs
of
this.
J
The
channel
boards
are
a
1940s
technology
that
require
extreme
and
undue
maintenance.
Every
few
years
you
have
to
adjust
them
so
that
plastic
letters
can
fit
on
them
and
if
they
don't
fit
perfectly,
they
fall
off
and
I'm
telling
you,
as
the
guy
who
does
this
I
have
to
get
out
a
pole
or
I
have
to
now
get
on
a
ladder
and
get
up
there
and
change
these.
The
maintenance
cost
is
excessive.
J
I'd.
Ask
you
to
please
consider
the
the
energy
sustainability
we
must
align
with
city-wide
goals
and
neighborhood
goals
for
Energy
Efficiency.
These
digital
boards
can
reduce
energy
consumption
by
up
to
70
percent
and
I
believe
that
historic
preservation
must
take
into
account
the
future
sustainability
of
our
communities.
Even
privately
owned
residences
are
allowed
to
make
energy
updates
in
a
line
with
historic
past
of
the
property,
but
to
have
dual
and
triple
pane
windows.
These
are
things
we
have
to
allow
historic
properties
to
do.
J
I
truly
believe
that
this
is
within
the
full
spirit
and
honoring
of
the
most
historic
record
of
this
property.
These
boards
are
not,
as
the
staff
report
puts
them
out
to
be,
they
work
just
with
the
same
effective
technology
of
your
smartphone
in
the
city.
The
the
staff
report
seems
to
indicate
that
given
one
of
these,
we
would
act
in
a
wild
and
wild
and
unchecked
manner
with
these.
Our
property
has
never
done
that.
Our
organization
has
never
done
that.
J
We
plan
on
using
everything
within
the
city's
policy
limits
and
suggesting
otherwise
is
just
a
pretense.
We
are
responsible
stewards
of
this
historic
property,
I
believe
this
honors,
the
past
I
believe
it
can
be
built
in
the
present
and
invest
in
our
city
and
I
believe
it
will
be
here
for
generations
to
come,
but
it's
not
just
me.
There
are
also
people
from
our
community,
because
we've
also
engaged
to
get
feedback
design
consideration
of
the
broader
neighborhood
of
Loring
Park,
which
represents
nearly
13
000
people
in
the
City
of
Minneapolis.
A
G
Thank
you,
chair
Howard.
You
mentioned
in
your
presentation
that
the
the
the
illumination
level
of
the
sign
varies
with
the
conditions
in
the
environment.
Is
there
a
way
to
manually
set
the
maximum
level
of
Illumination
for
that
sign?.
J
A
I
see.
We
have
a
couple
members
of
the
public
who
would
like
to
speak.
First
on
my
list
is
David
ebinger.
K
Commissioners,
ladies
and
gentlemen,
my
name
is
David.
Evinger
I
live
at
419,
Oak
Grove
Street
in
Loring,
Park
I
am
here
on
behalf
of
myself
and
also
the
clpc
board,
of
which
I
am
a
member.
We
have
met.
We
have
heard
this
presentation.
We
support
the
music
box
and
the
Wood
Dale
Church
in
their
application.
K
I've
been
on
the
clpc
board
for
a
few
years
now,
I'm
also
a
member
of
the
Loring
Park
safety
Club,
the
group
that
wears
the
orange
shirts
and
goes
around
doing
picking
up
things
and
handing
out
safety
fires
and
things
like
that.
We
go
by
the
music
box
all
the
time.
It's
important
to
us
I'm.
Also
a
member
of
the
Nicollet
Avenue
safety
coalition.
K
K
K
K
K
There
have
been
changes
that
are
significant,
you've
seen
some
of
them.
It
might
be
hard
to
just
re
look
at
the
photograph
and
pick
it
all
up.
When
you
go
there
and
look
at
it,
you
can
really
see
the
style
has
changed.
The
shapes
have
changed,
the
colors
have
changed,
the
materials
have
changed,
the
types
of
the
lettering
have
changed
and
the
type
of
lighting
has
changed.
K
K
This
whole
Community
is
concerned
about
it
that
whole
session
with
the
four
people
running
for
the
council
position
we're
all
talking
about
it.
It's
important.
So
let
me
raise
one
other
thing.
This
is
personal
Matt
Hazard,
with
one
of
the
things
we
did
is
we
were
fixing
up
the
Daniel
B
Lyon
house,
1892.,
all
single
pane
windows.
K
K
K
Do
you
think
we
would
have
even
asked
to
use
single
pane
windows
or
that
we
would
be
asked
to
use
single
pane
windows?
No,
because
we
all
know
the
environment.
Everything
is
better
when
you
can
use
these
modern
things
when
you
fit
them
in
with
what
was
traditionally
there
and
that's
what
these
folks
are
trying
to
do.
So
the
request
of
me
of
the
copc
and
Phyllis
is
also
on
that
board
and
she's
going
to
make
a
couple
of
comments
too.
A
L
My
name
is
Phyllis
Rhoden
I
live
at
410,
Groveland
and
I
will
be
echoing
a
lot
of
David's
comments.
I
have
lived
in
the
neighborhood
for
seven
years,
I've
been
on
the
clpc
board
for
two
and
I'm
here,
representing
the
board,
which
did
again
submit
a
letter
asking
you
to
approve
this
project
for
the
Wooddale
Church,
which
is
an
invaluable
neighbor
in
our
neighborhood.
The
Wooddale
church
is
situated
in
a
particularly
safety
challenge.
L
Part
of
our
neighborhood
Wooddale
is
a
critical
partner
in
organizing
and
hosting
a
monthly
public
safety
meeting
with
neighborhood
leaders
and
City
Safety
officials,
in
addition
to
its
Street
outreach
program,
not
only
with
the
proposed
and
desperately
needed,
Marquee
renovation
help
Advance
the
Loring
Park
master
plan
energy
goals.
It
would
allow
Wooddale
Church
to
effectively
communicate
its
Outreach
to
the
community,
along
with
the
replacement
of
our
50
year
old
street
lights
this
summer,
with
LED
lighting.
L
A
A
Are
there
any
concerns
or
comments
on
the
proposed
application
and
I
I
would
like
to
take
a
minute
and
say
thank
you
for
everything
that
you're
doing
for
the
music
box.
I
ushed
there
many
many
many
times
back
when
it
was
Triple
espressos
at
home,
so
I
and
I
used
to
live
in
Lauren
at
Lauren
Park.
So
it's
really
part
of
my
history
in
Minneapolis,
and
so
thank
you
for
all
you're
doing
thoughts
on
the
proposal
before
us.
A
G
Well,
shall
I
kick
us
off?
Thank
you.
Applicants
for
all
of
the
information
that
you
presented
today
and
thank
you,
Dr
schmole,
for
all
the
information
that
you
put
together
I
as
I.
Look
at
this
one
I
personally,
I,
don't
have
any
problems
with
the
dynamic
signs.
G
So
I
think
you
know
our
definition
of
dynamic
today
and
dynamic
in
those
times
is
very
different,
but
at
the
same
time
I
think
the
spirit
of
that
word
was
applied,
given
whatever
technology
they
had
available.
So
I
personally,
don't
have
a
problem
with
the
dynamic
signs,
but
I
do
have
a
couple
of
other
points.
G
I
do
I
do
agree
with
staff
about
the
concern
about
the
sign
being
significantly
brighter
than
they
were,
but
I
think
the
applicant
has
said
that
there
is
an
ability
to
make
sure
that
the
maximum
illumination
level
matches
the
existing
changeable
copy
sign.
Illumination,
that's
there
now,
so
I
would
be
in
support
of
a
condition
that
would
state
that
and
honestly,
one
of
the
things
that
I
have
a
concern
about
is
on
the
current
design.
G
There's
an
M
emblem
on
the
front
facade
that
projects
above
the
Marquee
and
for
some
reason
that
has
always
struck
me
as
something
that
is
very
unique
to
the
current
design
and
isn't
in
replication
of
anything
that
was
historic,
and
so
personally,
I
would
like
to
see
that
that
M
actually
eliminated
from
the
design
but
I
I
have
no
concerns
on
on
the
other
portions
of
the
design,
as
proposed.
So
would
like
to
hear
other
thoughts
before
I
get
into
my
recommended
motion.
I
I
tend
to
agree
with
commissioner
sambalt
about
the
definition
dynamic
and
thank
you
for
very
thorough
presentation
and
I
also
find
that
with
the
idea
of
like
climate
change
in
a
way,
I
get
that
piece
of
it,
but
the
only
issue
I
have
is
then
what
precedent
is
a
setting
for
other
like
theaters,
that
will
come
forward
with
this?
Are
we
going
to
then
have
to
continually
approve
this
Dynamic
version
of
signage
I?
A
Yeah
I
think
you
I
think
you
make
a
good
point,
commissioner
Nystrom,
and
something
that
I've
been
struggling
with.
You
know
we
have
in
our
new
design
guidelines
that
we're
about
to
talk
about
next,
no
Dynamic
signs
and
I
think
that
whatever
we
do
with
this
will
factor
into
that
conversation.
I
think
the
difference
here
is
that
we
we
have
a
theater.
A
It's
not
a
it's
a
theater
Marquee,
so
that's
a
difference
from
the
other
signage
that
we
often
see
coming
in.
So
there
might
be
some
things
we
could
talk
about
related
to
that
so
yeah
I,
I,
understand.
C
Thank
you,
chair,
Howard,
I,
I
I
mean
I,
guess,
I'm
generally
in
agreement,
I
think
that
there's
probably
not
probably
that
the
applicant
has
demonstrated
that
there
is
a
way
for
the
sign
to
appear
in
its
kind
of
historic
context,
and
that's
that's
great
I
mean
I,
think
the
concern
I
would
have
and
I
assume,
probably
where
the
staff
is
coming
from
at
this
is
that
we
can't
control
future
use
of
this
sign.
We
can't
control
that
Wooddale
church
is
always
in
control
of
this
building.
C
We're
making
a
decision
today
for
the
history
for
the
future
of
this
building
and
its
historic
relevance
in
the
future,
and
it's
not
like
we
can
stipulate
that
for
the
existence
of
this
sign,
it'd
only
be
this
particular
brightness
and
it
never
have
active
characters
on
it.
C
It
would
be
an
incredibly
difficult
thing
for
the
City
of
Minneapolis
to
Monitor
and
work
forward,
so
I
mean
all
that
is
to
say,
I,
don't
know,
I,
don't
know
what
the
answer
is,
but
it's
more
complicated
than
it
sounds.
I,
guess
is
my
really
great
comments
that
I'm
providing
to
the
body.
G
I
first
have
a
couple
of
comments
in
response
to
commissioner
Vander
Ike's
comments.
I
I
do
believe
that
you
know
we
can
put
some
parameters
out
there
for
the
the
dynamic
sign
I
mean
similar
to
how
we
would
put
regulations
on
any
property
or
any
you
know,
any
conditions
that
we
prescribe
I
agree
enforcing
some
rules
is
harder
than
others,
but
that
being
said,
I
I
do
think
that
we
have
some
ability
and
with
that
I'm
just
going
to
dive
right
into
making
a
recommended
motion.
G
So
you
can
hear
my
recommended
conditions
and
and
voice
agreement,
disagreement
or
comments.
G
So
my
recommended
motion
would
be
to
approve
the
certificate
of
appropriateness
as
listed
in
our
agenda
and
striking
condition
number
one,
but
adding
a
condition
that
would
say
that
the
m
logo
projecting
above
the
front
face
of
the
Marquee,
shall
be
eliminated
from
the
design
and
a
second
condition
that
the
dynamic
signs,
maximum
illumination
levels
shall
be
set
to
match.
The
illumination
level
of
the
existing
changeable
copy
signs.
G
M
Thank
you,
chair,
Howard,
Andrea,
Burke
supervisor
for
the
historic
preservation
team.
Yes,
you
can
make
that
condition,
but,
as
you
noted
earlier,
our
current
inspectors
do
have
a
very
difficult
time
regulating
lumens
on
Dynamic
science
and
while
LED
in
specific,
because
it
can
be
changed
so
easily
with
the
flip
of
a
switch.
But
that
is
a
condition
you
can
make.
If
you
so
choose.
A
A
So
we
need
to
discuss
some
more
is
that
is
what's
troubling
us,
the
let's
start
with
the
the
m,
since
there
were
two
parts,
commissioner
booty.
Thank
you.
N
Thank
you,
chair
Howard,
sorry,
I
was
I.
A
N
Rolling
through
the
application
here
to
find
the
picture,
I
was
looking
for
so
I
I
will
say:
I
don't
have
as
much
of
an
issue
with
the
m
per
se.
So
that
was
my
hesitation
seconding.
The
mesh
of
the
the
motion
and
I
would
didn't
have
a
lot
to
add
to
what
it
was
said
earlier,
with
Dynamic
signs
in
general
tend
to
agree
with
what
it
was
said.
N
So
I'll
make
us
another
emotion
to
see
if
others
would
be
interested
in
approving
the
certificate
of
appropriateness
to
replace
the
historic
Marquee
with
a
new
Marquee
that
displays
two
Dynamic
signs
on
the
other
signage
at
1407,
Nicollet
Avenue,
the
former
Loring
theater,
subject
to
the
following
conditions:
striking
the
condition
number
one
as
written
in
the
today's
agenda
and
adding
the
condition
that
commissioner
sampled
wrote
the
that
the
dynamic
signs
maximum
illumination
level
shall
be
set
to
match
the
illumination
level
of
the
existing
changeable
copy
signs.
G
M
Me
I
just
want
to
play.
Andrea
I
just
want
to
clarify
the
motion
chair
Howard,
to
make
sure
that
commissioner,
but
who's
restated
motion
was
basically
not
enacting
the
leap
not
going
forward
with
the
M
logo,
but
still
keeping
the
elimination
is
that
accurate.
M
D
A
H
Evening,
Madam,
chair
and
Commissioners,
once
again,
my
name
is
John
Smalley
and
I'm
pleased
to
be
here
to
brief
you
on
the
update
to
the
2003
Minneapolis
hpc's
design,
guidelines
for
on-premise
signs
and
awnings
the
Minneapolis
Heritage
preservation,
commission's
design
guidelines
for
on-premise
signs
and
awnings
regulate
signs
and
awnings
within
the
boundaries
of
locally
designated
properties
throughout
the
city.
They
work
in
conjunction
with
our
zoning
code,
where
the
most
restrictive
provision
applies.
The
guidelines
aim
to
be
transparent
and
easy
to
administer.
H
Proposals
that
meet
these
guidelines
are
processed
as
certificates
of
no
change
and
requests
for
exceptions
require
a
certificate
of
appropriateness,
almost
all
historic
districts
defer
to
these
design
guidelines
in
terms
of
sign
and
Awning
standards,
since
their
adoption
in
2003,
the
hpc's
guidelines
for
on-premise
signs
and
audience
remained
unchanged,
though.
Our
Zony
code
standards
have
relaxed,
they've,
relaxed
regulation
of
sign
types,
Heights
sizes,
materials,
methods
of
elimination
and
messages.
H
Hpc
decisions
regarding
signs
and
awnings
have
typically
followed
suit
through
the
certificate
of
appropriateness
and
historic
variance
processes.
This
update
that
you
have
before
you
proposes
to
codify
such
Trends
further
streamlining
the
development
review
process,
while
still
reserving
the
right
of
property
owners
to
request
the
HPC
Grant,
reasonable
exceptions
to
these
standards.
H
Relaxing
the
HPC
sign
standards
appears
appropriate
in
cped
staff's
opinion
signage
for
both
advertising
and
identification
was
very
prolific
during
all
of
our
landmarks
and
historic
districts
periods
of
significance.
Here
you
can
see
an
example
of
Murray's
as
it
stands
today
and
how
it
looked
back.
Mid-Century
the
updated
design
guidelines,
streamline
development
review
by
eliminating
guidelines
related
to
rarely
enforced
standards
such
as
regulations
regarding
signed
message,
parking
lot,
signage,
real
estate,
sign
location,
master
sign
plan
requirements
and
wall
signs,
two
foot
height
maximum.
H
H
The
updated
guidelines
incorporate
additional
sections
on
canopy
signs,
Dynamic
signs
and
murals,
as
well
as
a
pictorial
glossary
to
help
visually
identify
the
different
sign
types
across
the
city
staff
is
also
recommending.
The
title
of
the
guidelines
be
changed
to
the
term
premises:
plural,
to
reflect,
updated
zoning
code
text,
so
they
will
read
the
design
guidelines
for
on-premises
signs
in
audience
if
you
adopt
them
as
proposed,
the
guidelines
incorporate
HPC
conceptual
guidance
provided
at
your
retreat.
G
Thank
you,
chair,
Howard
I,
do
have
a
couple
of
questions
for
you
Dr
schmole.
G
First
there
is
one
of
the
regulations
is
that
plastic
face
covers
are
not
allowed,
except
on
channel
letter
faces
I'm
just
curious
on
this
one
like
what
are
we
trying
to
prevent
or
what?
What's
the
concern
about
plastic
faces
specifically.
H
Madam
chair,
commissioner
sandovalt
I
was
not
here
in
2003
for
the
writing
of
these
current
guidelines.
Here.
My
understanding,
however,
is
that
plastic
face
covers,
are
less
durable,
they're,
more
easily
broken
and
they're.
The
way
that
plastic
can
be
molded
is
a
bit.
The
appearance
differs.
It
appears
a
bit
lower
quality
than
say,
Channel
cut
or
Channel
letters
or
say
letters.
You
know
cut
through
an
aluminum
a
flat
aluminum
face
with
sort
of
some
push
through
acrylic
I
think
it's
both
a
durability
and
an
aesthetic
intent.
D
G
I
did
have
another
kind
of
comment
was
that
one
of
the
regulations
is
that
banners
and
Awning
signs
shall
never
be
illuminated,
and
one
thing
I
started
thinking
about
when
I
read.
That
was
that,
as
we
get
into
an
era
where
the
70s
and
80s
are
getting
closer
to
Historic,
that
to
say
that
those
should
never
be
permitted
might
be
a
little
dangerous
and
so
kind
of
my
recommended
language
might
be
that
you
know
to
state
that
not
be
illuminated
unless
photographic
evidence
exists.
G
Similarly,
and
based
on
our
conversation
that
we
just
had
a
minute
ago,
was
the
dynamic
signs
you
know
with
the
regulation
in
here
says:
Dynamic
signs
and
dynamic
changeable
copy
signs
are
not
permitted,
but
then
the
second
regulation
in
that
category
says
historic.
Dynamic
signs
may
be
repaired
or
replaced
in
kind
and
I'm
wondering
if
it
makes
sense
for
us
to
somehow
edit.
G
That
first
comment
to
basically
say
that
they
shouldn't
be
permitted
unless
they
existed
historically,
at
which
point
they
would
be
considered
by
the
HPC
for
replacement,
and
then
only
one
more
comment
from
me.
G
The
illuminate
in
the
definitions,
the
illuminance
illuminated
sign
backlit,
has
a
photo
next
to
it,
and
I
just
thought
as
I
was
going
through
here,
that
to
help
understand
what
is
meant
by
that
sign,
it
might
be
helpful
to
have
a
night
photo
of
an
illuminated
sign
rather
than
a
day
photo
of
a
sign
that
you
can't
really
tell
what
the
illumination
kind
of
character
is
of
that.
Those
were
my
three
comments
as
I
looked
through
this.
A
Thank
you,
Vice,
chair,
Samuel,
I'll,
ask
a
question
now
before
we
continue,
so
the
purpose
of
this
these
guidelines
are
so
that
staff
can
make
these
reviews
and
they
don't
necessarily
have
to
come
before
us.
So
when
something
says
it
shall
never
be
permitted
or
it
is
not
permitted,
it's
still
something
that
could
come
before
us
to
say.
Yes,
we
see
why
this
should
be
permitted.
A
H
Yes,
Madam
chair,
that
is
correct,
as
you
saw
with
the
application
tonight
for
dynamic
signage.
The
current
guidelines
prohibit
Dynamic
signs.
The
guide,
the
proposed
guidelines
as
written,
also
prohibit
Dynamic
signs
exceptions
to
those
guidelines
come
before
you
as
a
certificate
of
appropriateness,
request,
I.
A
H
M
If
I
may
jump
in
yeah,
you
can,
but
then
they
would
not
be
adopted
essentially
yet
and-
and
we
would
need
to
go
back
and
modify
and
I'm,
not
sure
I'm
going
to
ask
a
question
of
Staff.
Would
we
need
to
send
those
back
to
shippo,
no
okay?
Thank
you.
C
Egg,
well
with
that,
I
think,
based
on
the
dialogue
earlier
about
the
Dynamic
sign
whatever
that
means,
but
the
the
perhaps
there's
a
different
treatment
of
theater
Marquis
versus,
like
you
know,
except
the
idea
with
like
that
digital
boards.
We
don't
want
digital
boards
on
like
everyday
signs
and
awnings,
but
like
that,
a
theater
Marquee,
which
is
not
a
not
a
common
occurrence,
maybe
has
a
little
bit
more.
Flexibility
in
in
a
digital
Marquees
was
my
comment.
A
Just
just
a
reminder:
we're
still
in
questions
for
staff.
So
if
you
have
questions
for
staff,
yeah.
C
So
that
was
that
would
be.
My
question
would
be
like
is
that
is
that
something
that
would
be
that
we
could
tweak
to
that
specific.
The
same
item
that
commissioner
sample
brought
up
relative
to
the
digital
board
or
whatever
it's
called
the.
H
Chair
Howard,
commissioner
Vander
right,
we
can
certainly
you
know,
make
amendments
to
the
document
as
as
Andrea
Burke
noted,
I
guess
we'd
have
to
make
those
and
then
bring
them
back
before
you
and
make
sure
you
saw
everything
written
out
the
way
you'd
like
to
see
it,
and
then
we
would
adopt
those
at
a
future.
You
would
adopt
those
at
a
future
meeting
got.
M
Yes,
staff
would
like
to
add
to
the
response
chair,
Howard
and
Commissioner
of
Android,
the
other
thing
to
keep
in
mind.
This
is
just
a
a
stated
fact.
A
lot
of
our
theaters
currently
do
operate
under
other
guidelines
that
are
specifically
written
for
the
theaters
when
they
were
designated
at
a
group
and.
D
M
It's
possible
in
that
case,
that
particular
Landmark
should
it
be
designated,
may
have
its
own
guidelines
that
came
up
with,
but
I
just
wanted
to
make
that
distinction
and
am
I
am
I,
correct,
John
and
that
that
was
how
that
this
length.
We
went
over
this
language
a
lot
understandably,
and
so
that's
that's
how
we
came
up
with
the
the
current
language.
C
Ahead,
just
a
clarifying
question
on
that
I
apologize,
I
didn't
know
the
distinction
there,
but
so
for
if
I'm,
if
I'm
understanding
that
correctly,
all
designated
theaters
theaters
that
are
historically
I'd
have
their
own,
like
a
an
umbrella,
signage
guidance
that
this
is
what
you're
referring
to.
That
would
be
more
specific
to
that
particular
use.
C
M
There
was
five
or
six
actually
I,
think
five
of
them
Granada
yeah
that
all
came
through,
and
so
all
of
those
guidelines
apply,
and
it
sort
of
says
that
at
the
beginning
of
those
guidelines
that
that
those
particular
theaters
apply,
it's
not
all
theaters
right,
but
yeah.
C
Yeah
I
think
that
so
in
response
to
that
chair,
Dr
Smalley
that
I
was
fine
with
these
signage
guidelines
before
I
was
happy
to
come
here
and
approve
them
I.
Just
this.
This
conversation
has
brought
up
another
topic
that
it
concerns
me.
I,
don't
I
want
to
make
things
easier
for
all
of
us.
I
want
to
make
things
easier
for
you
guys
to
approve
and
for
our
applicants
to
navigate
this
process
and
so
I
wonder
if
there,
if
that
would
make
sense.
That
was
why
I
brought
the
question
forward.
C
A
A
C
Wright
so,
like
I
said,
I'd
I,
I
I
believe
that
Dr
Smalley
has
done
a
lot
of
really
wonderful
work.
I'm
pretty
sure
his
Doctorate
is
in
signage.
At
this
point
on
this
stuff,
so
I
feel
in
support,
and
the
last
thing
I
want
to
do
is
is
send
the
staff
home
with
more
homework,
but
I
do
want
to
feel
comfortable.
C
That
we've
got
because
our
guidelines
are
what
we
utilize
and
they
don't
get
updated
very
often,
as
we
can
clearly
see
so
I
want
to
make
sure
that
we
think
deeply
about
the
implications
of
them
and
and
this
this
dialogue
on
on
the
lowering
theater
gave
us
that
opportunity
to
do
so
so
I'm
not
saying
one
way
or
the
other
I'm
interested
to
hear
the
rest
of
the
commission's
feedback
on
it.
But
I
think
that
it's
worth
noting
and
worth
having
the
discussion.
N
Thank
you,
chair,
Howard
and
I
just
want
to
kind
of
echo
your
point
earlier
when
during
The
Question
period
about
if
there
are
exceptions
to
the
the
language
that
are
written
in
the
guidelines,
as
we
saw
today,
the
up
first
discussion
with
us
versus
which
I
feel
comfortable
having
that.
D
N
Played
considering
there
might
be
some
special
circumstances
that
are
working
with
with
certain
properties,
so
I
think
there
could
be
some
potentially
some
flexibility
there,
depending
on
the
property
and
the
applicant.
C
Vander
could
I
ask
commissioner
Sandoval
to
restate
the
comments
that
you
had
to
the
that
because
it
sounded
like.
Maybe
you
had
some
amendments.
You
would
like
to
see
made
Beyond
this
digital
signboard
thing
go
ahead.
G
Yeah
I'll,
the
one.
The
one
suggestion
that
remains
of
my
kind
of
comments
and
questions
that
I
brought
up
earlier
was
that
on
item
1.9,
it
is
currently
stated
as
banners
and
awnings
signs
shall
never
be
illuminated
and
kind
of
my
suggested
would
possibly
be
not
be
illuminated
unless
photographic
evidence
exists,
that
such
a
such
illumination
was
a
historic
condition
in
all
reality,
I
feel,
like
that's
rare
enough,
that
I'm
in
support
of
approving
the
the
design
guidelines,
as
proposed.
C
All
right,
yeah,
so
I,
agree,
I,
think
that
that
makes
a
lot
of
sense.
I
agree
with
your
point
and
I
agree
that
we
can
find
a
way
to
work
with
our
applicants
on
that
and
and
furthermore,
to
the
point
that
of
the
dialogue
we
had
today,
like.
Obviously,
we've
got
some
sense
of
overlapping
design
guidelines
and
and
zoning
ordinances
and
all
this
stuff
and
to
some
extent
it's
a
reality
of
the
fact
that
some
of
the
stuff
is
going
to
come
in
conflict
with
one
another.
C
So
we
will
have
to
have
these
kind
of
conversations
and
I
trust
that
our
staff
is,
is
talented
and
skilled
enough
to
know
when
the
appropriate
time
to
bring
that
forward
for
us
is
so
with
that.
I
would
like
to
make
a
motion
which
I
never
do
to
to
approve
the
to
adopt
the
design
guidelines
for
Prem,
on-premise,
sign
and
awnings.
A
M
Yeah
tear
Howard
I
I
was
just
gonna
kind
of
reiterate
the
sentiment
that
essentially,
as
you
stated,
chair
Howard,
these
have
greatly
given
more
administrative
approval
authority
to
staff
and
have
taken
away
more
cfas
from
you.
That
said
where,
where
we
have
stated
that
language
is
essentially
just
ensures
that
that's
where
we
will
be
bringing
things
to
you
and
that
and
obviously
you
can
make
your
own
decision,
but
that
was
a
very
conscious
decision
on
behalf
of
staff
that
we
didn't
feel
certain
types
of
proposals
were
a
desktop
decision.
A
B
D
B
A
M
Burke,
thank
you,
chair,
Howard
I.
Do
I
would
mention
that
earlier
this
afternoon
the
commutator
project
did
go
to
biz
on
appeal
for
two
conditions:
conditions,
one
and
two
I.
Don't
expect
you
to
remember
those,
but
they
largely
had
to
do
with
the
entrance
and
that
appeal
to
strike
those
conditions
was
approved
by
the
biz
committee.
So
it
will
next
go
to
council
for
final
approval.
M
I
hope
I
didn't
do
that
into
the
microphone,
but
we
are
wrapping
up
our
comments
on
this
draft.
We
received
a
draft
from
the
consultants
and
just
to
give
you
an
update
on
what's
going
to
happen.
Next,
we've
relayed
our
comments
to
the
consultant.
They
are
putting
forth
our
comments
and
then
what
will
happen
next
is
once
we
get
the
final
draft
middle
to
the
end
of
June.
We
will
open
the
document
up
for
public
comment
for
30
days.
M
All
of
this
will
be
happening
prior
to
even
bringing
this
before
you
as
a
discussion
item.
So
it's
very
very
in
advance
of
the
process,
but
I
wanted
to
let
you
know,
and
so
then
we
will
receive
public
comments
on
it
and
then
decide
how
we
you
know,
take
those
comments
make
any
changes
thus
forth
before
it
comes
to
you.
But
since
this
has
been
a
big
project,
our
team
has
been
taken
up
over
the
last
six
months.
I
wanted
to
give
an
update
and
then
also
the
community
connections
conference.
M
Is
this
Saturday
from
not
nine
o'clock
to?
Is
it
three
o'clock
three
o'clock
over
at
the
convention
center,
so
I
encourage
you
to
stop
by
Aaron
from
our
team
and
Rob
from
our
team
will
be
Manning,
our
booth
Staffing
our
booth,
and
they
will
be
talking
about
our
program
as
well
as
some
of
the
work
on
the
African-American
cultural
heritage,
action
fund
Grant.
A
All
right
with
that,
we
have
completed
all
items
on
the
agenda
for
this
meeting.
I
will
ask
members
and
staff
once
more
if
there
are
any
other
matters
to
come
before
the
commission,
there
being
no
other
business
to
come
before
this
meeting
and
without
objection.
I
will
declare
this
meeting
adjourned.
The
next
regular
meeting
of
the
Heritage
preservation
commission
is
June
20th
2023..