City of Norton, Ohio Planning Commission Meetings, 26 Apr 2022

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From YouTube: 04--26-2022 Planning Commission Meeting

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04-26-2022 Planning Commission Meeting

A

I thought it was.

B

A

Guys yeah and look how much they just put on new signs.

A

Look how much that's all it is.

A

A

A

You're ready to go.

A

C

I'm going to call the uh meeting to order of the norton city planning commission at 602 and shannon. Would you do a roll call? Please? Yes, ralph here, john here.

D

Marian jim here and ruth here, thank you.

C

Okay, see um don't have any old business at this time. In a new business, we have an application uh spr4 dash 2022, and this is for a phase two uh at brookside greens.

C

I have we have some revised drawings. I have a full set of drawings and then we received whatever was in the original package. Is the developer or the surveyor here tonight to discuss this? Could you step up and talk a little bit about this.

C

So did you just state your name and address uh just for our records? Okay,.

E

My name is dan, engel I'm with uh davey resource group, um the sir they're representing and we're just presenting the brookside garden subdivision phase two.

C

Okay is that uh is that, on by chance, no michael.

F

Yes, okay yeah, it's probably just not picking up.

C

And then are you the surveyor? Are you.

G

C

G

Addison properties, 3401 enterprise, parkway, beechwood, ohio.

C

Okay, so um so I can clarify a couple things because I'm a little confused on whether we're doing a site plan or a sketch plan, because we received like three drawings, which looks like a site plan, but then I got a full set of drawings, which was what I was using, except I think these are.

C

These were dated uh 8 24 2021, which show the phase two in it. But I don't know if they're really, you know they're, not obviously the up-to-date ones. So I don't know what your plan was. Were you looking at a preliminary site plan? As far as your develop your submittals.

E

Yes, we were submitting the preliminary plan site plan for uh consideration.

C

Okay, so that's different than because that doesn't have all the um details like the sewer and the stuff like that. This is just a concept of the okay.

G

H

G

Have already been improved and those actually in the ground right now, so this is the plating of that phase of those 26 lots.

C

Okay, okay, so that's different than a site plan. I guess that I was trying to differentiate that so because the drawings that were submitted with the application that that I have are these ones were dated. There was three sheets and they were dated 2 3 22, but that's not really a sketch plot. I don't think because that should have the you know that should have all your topography if it's well. I don't. I always review a preliminary sketch plan, as you should, since you've already had the site plan agreed upon.

C

The next phase would be breaking the lots down and having a lot of the details on your roads and your drainage and everything- and I I want to ask you- is that different than what your perception.

G

G

C

G

Of that phase is uh 80, complete.

C

G

So this is the planning of the lots within that phase. Okay,.

C

So this is phase two just plotting of the lots. That's.

G

C

So that would make sense here then, because this was all the all your details, although are you going to be coming back like you? Don't have all the d you just have I'm assuming phase two is lots 53 through 78.

C

That's the ones that come off and go west.

B

Is correct and.

C

Up along golf course drive okay, so it's a little confusing.

C

Because you did a lot of work and then you broke it down into phases, so it gets a little bit more confusing on what we're actually approving or taking action on. So.

C

So the city engineer is already reviewed. I assume the drawings for the entire preliminary plot, because I see he's already signed these off. Like you know, seven or eight months ago.

G

Correct, like I said, all that all the construction is done that have been previously approved, so this is just the flatting of those those lots of phase.

C

And planning in your case is really just a subdividing of those big lot into individual lots. That's.

G

Correct? Which.

C

Is more of a titling issue than anything else? I assume.

G

uh Correct yeah.

C

So as we go through.

G

Cloud we go to addressing with the with the county: okay,.

B

Has anything changed from this phase two from the original 300 plus layout units that we looked at months ago, this phase two: are these the way you've broken down these individual lots? Are these the same or similar to what you showed us months ago, law.

G

Sizing everything is, is per the original 308 lots, that's just that's blanket over the entire development, so nothing has changed within this. Okay.

G

This will be depicting all the the storm drainage in the rear yards right away, um showing general widths of all the individual lots and the the curvature a.

B

Number a lot size a lot shape. A lots are all the same as they were. Yes,.

G

B

C

Yeah, I think when I was trying to go through the normal process like when I looked at these drawings it it's like there's. No, there doesn't seem to be a step in to do this because you've already had the drawings approved with all the details. So I don't know if you've run into this before bill or not.

C

I'm not sure what this falls under, because the uh the application said it's a well first, they said it was a final plot and then somebody crossed out and put preliminary plot, but it's not really a plant, because I assume that's what this is here. This is your I don't know. This is probably your preliminary plant.

G

And that's that's correct! Technically. I believe that would be preliminary plat with the construction drawings, and this is the actual plat.

C

Okay, okay, so I think we've already really approved this whole thing previously and council's approved it previously. This is probably more of a formality, is more for probably titling and getting your stuff straight away, so you can go to the county and.

G

Drive private reservation: I see.

C

Okay, I don't think I've ever run into that before and 18 years of doing this so.

G

I think you guys wanted more information as you kept going, so that was hence the.

I

G

So we were instructed to do this right.

C

F

I just have one I mean we got the the one drawings last week and then one today and I don't know it there's red and blue marking that is on the smaller one. We just got today that I don't see on these other ones. Can you explain that.

E

I can speak to those markings. uh There were some scrivener errors. Just text corrections directions that the line is going from east to west or west to east. Just simple corrections like that. No lot size acreage layout has changed.

C

I wanted to check my email here on this.

F

So these markings are just that they were corrected.

E

They were corrected, yes,.

C

Okay, so there is only three pages: there isn't a fourth page. That's.

E

Correct that was one of the changes or one of the corrections. There never was a fourth page. It was just an error on the cover of saying what it was.

C

Okay, so I assume that we have two attachments in this latest middle but they're exactly the same, I assume that's.

E

C

Assume one is probably marked up and one isn't.

C

Yeah, correct probably spent a couple hours on this in between these drawings and this it was really throwing me off where we were going so. Okay.

C

So I guess, okay, based on that, does anybody have any comments or questions to what we're doing here? Considering we've already approved this, I don't know eight ten months ago, probably even further back than that and it's already gone through council have been approved, the only thing that's stopping you from putting the next set of roads in is just you.

B

C

Formalizing, that property and breaking into lots, so you can sell them by soon yep, so so, based on that, our review approach may be a little bit different here, but jim, do you have any comments or questions on this?

C

No, I mean they changed. They didn't.

B

Change anything in the lot arrangement.

B

So it's the same that we looked at once again.

C

B

C

What I concluded when I looked at the full size, but actually these were older drawings, but they would have been over drawings because they were approved and I noticed they were signed. So okay, but does this go to council.

C

Well, I don't know because when I look at the code, I don't see this as a natural step in the process, but the fact that there is some signatures required here. I think we need to send this to council for their their approval. I would think because I think it's a little small to read here, but I think this requires, like uh the sign off of what the engineer and my glasses are powerful enough to see this so planning commission.

E

Yeah, that's right: it's the planning, commission, city, council, norton, engineer and mayor.

C

So I would probably lean more towards this. Being a final site plan is what I'm probably classified as which is which is different than the sketch plants, and you.

B

C

Probably deal with this all the time, but I really get confused when we get applications, because sometimes we don't get a site plan. We just get the final because they're confident that they can go through and you know, spend whatever 400 000 dollars to put a complete plan together with nobody's agreement, hoping it'll be approved. So.

G

Depending depending on the municipality, I mean we would call this for final plat approval, like I said, we take it to the county for recreation and assign addresses to these.

C

Okay, so, okay and that's what it's really.

G

All about indeed,.

C

Bill, do you think this is a final uh site plan, or do you think this is a final sketch plant or.

G

Well, I think probably it's a final due to it's been approved once, but I I mean just to go back. I think this was this was set this way, based on your board's comments, wanting more information.

C

E

G

That's the reason why we're here.

C

Yeah, so let me think here it: it probably doesn't matter either way uh from what I'm seeing here. This probably has to go and counsel for approval, because it's got a signature requirement on and from. I think that is it. Charlotte is at the clerk of council that signs these. I believe right.

C

I think I think I think she doesn't.

C

Well, I think, on the final sketch plat that's here, there is a signature, for I think it's clerk of council and she's your representative on once you approve it. She'll sign those.

H

C

No, no, so I think in this case here because it still requires it. I think what we would probably do is pass this along to council for their their approval action. So, but in theory, they you've already everything's been approved, you're just breaking down the the final details to go to the county. That's.

G

A

C

Let me check on, let me see what 232.

C

Or 1232 03 is here.

C

So, oh three is a plum mary and o4 is a final side yeah. So I'd probably go towards 12 32 04.

C

So this is more of a procedural thing for us from what I can see. Yes,.

G

C

C

And you know, because it says final sketch plot, which is consistent with you, know: final plats. Okay, do you have a problem with this? Okay.

E

I mean, like you, said: it's gotta go through everyone's hands. Anyhow,.

C

Okay, yeah every time I do this, I keep saying we need a flow chart, so we can understand this because there's a lot of confusing things and I'm sure every city has their own requirements and being on the planning. As long as I have, I always have to sit down and make sure the sequence makes sense. So.

G

Completely understood I'm on the one zoning in my hometown too, and it's night and day difference from from town to town, yeah.

C

Okay, marion any questions or john okay. uh Well, thank you and I think I will give a chance just because there is some confusion on this. Let charlotte and maybe some other people may have some questions so charlotte. Would you like to stay in.

H

And when say council approved, I was not one of the councilmen just to point this out, so you know where I'm coming from and some of the questions I had probably doesn't have to do anything with this, but when you said it was 80 completed. What do you mean by that? I know eighty percent of the houses haven't been put out and.

G

Baked one, no man, this is for phase two. It's the next 26 laps, which means that site rough grading has been uh almost complete and eighty percent of the underground is in. As a matter of fact, as mother nature lets me, I will pave that phase.

H

Okay, um so you've got the underground. That means the sewers are correct seriously. Where phase one the park, you almost have you've got the houses built on now too. Is it functioning? Yes? Oh how interesting?

H

That's not what our administrator told me, but then I know that you're supposed to have the community saying where that's supposed to be where's, that boat going to be located. I thought they're going to be more closer to the front. It's it's close to the center of the property and you.

G

It's uh presently it has a pool, a small pool house and a top lot play area is that where the community center is going to be correct,.

H

C

And I think the difficult part here is that the entire plot's already been approved as far as all the details with you know: construction and roads and uh sores and retention detention basins. So everything is in there they're just kind of going through phase by phase to actually allow you to break the lots down for recording with the uh with the county so that they can sell the lots. Actually, I had a couple.

H

More problems, what are you guys? Gonna put the mounds.

G

That's actually under review by the by the gpd, the city engineer. um As far as where the mounting can go. There are a variety of easements um held by a couple of gas companies, electric companies and storm easements that will allow for mounds in some areas, but not in.

H

G

Per our agreement with the city that will be paved, I believe by this- I think it's september of this year.

C

So that golf course drive you're going to be able to answer questions outside.

G

Of this phase, two.

C

Okay, that that was, I guess what my feeling was. I didn't want to do that, but since she brought it up.

G

Yeah, this is pertinent to phase two.

C

C

Okay, uh chardonnay any other questions.

C

Okay, I did have. uh I was explaining to her on one of these. uh I assumed that your your initial one was where your the clubhouse is now is where you probably put your your clubhouse. I don't know whether you're gonna tear that building down. I would think you would, but I.

G

That's the the clubhouse is coming down with the the next phase. There's there's no community center associated with phase two. um The clubhouse is not associated with phase two either. Okay,.

C

So but that seemed like that was where it was pictorially, so it's in kind of the center of the the development. It's just a long ways from phase two right now.

G

It's it's actually under consideration. The area is under consideration with the current plans that are being reviewed right now for another phase,.

C

Okay, so- and I was out town for about a week and a half- and I had a zoom call and somebody said about all the houses and I'm like why don't we sell three houses there and I come back in and I drove up and I see there was like 13 built and 10 lots already sold, and I was kind of shocked in a you know about a one month period, how fast things were moving there.

G

I believe to date, my last report that I received from our client was 21 were sold.

C

So very kind of shocking. You know that things are going that fast. So that's.

G

Why we need these 26.

C

Yes, so because what is there? 50 52.

G

In the first phase,.

C

Okay, okay and I guess I'll, let some other people talk here. Could you just state your name and address.

I

My name is mary dyke. I live at 3736 golf course drive, which is right across from where the old maintenance building is okay.

I

My question to you is: who is in charge of overseeing how things are completed in the area and the reason I asked that I know that you guys have to get a lot of trucks up and down that road with heavy equipment, pipe and so forth and the roads are are almost impact. Golf course drive is almost impassable now. I know about two 10 days ago I had sent a email to the city and was told that they were going to come out and do some patchwork which they did.

I

Okay, but already that patchwork, the holes are this deep in the in the bottom part where we have to go up onto the gravel to get to our homes. Okay, I have already had my vehicle to the mechanic twice and spent over three hundred dollars in repairs from the the well. It's it's been a problem.

I

I would ask if we can't get patch that will stay in the holes for more than a week. Can you not get one of those metal plates to put over those holes so we can go across without tearing our vehicles up, I mean that's. Somebody has to be responsible for making sure that we can get.

C

I

And out of our homes, yes and.

C

And that's probably something right now to deal with uh with the city with uh mr fowler and it's probably not your error, because you're zoning but.

I

See my concern is: is if you're going into phase two they're already bringing all these heavy trucks and equipment up golf course drive with the pipes that are servicing phase two yeah and putting it in the.

C

Ground so who patched the road?

C

Okay? Okay, so I guess that is a valid question to you. Then I yeah.

I

And thank you for that, but I'm just trying to let you know that that best effort isn't working. Okay, it's the patch, isn't staying in there. It's already out of the holes and we're back we're back to a problem. Again. um All of us have to go in and out of that road. I'm sorry giving my back in and out of that road all the time and I'm I'm sure somebody has to be responsible to monitor that situation, so we can get in and out to our homes.

I

What happens if the emergency vehicle has to get up the street to one of us and they can't make it up because of the road.

I

That's what I'm concerned about. I I understand you're under construction and I'm not trying to give you a problem. I just want to be able to get in and out to my house without tearing my vehicle up all the time. If you could please talk to somebody and do something about that. For us, it would be greatly appreciated.

C

G

We will certainly look into it. um I'm I'm out here on a regular basis, so I will look in to see if a plating is an option we do have an agreement in place to resurface to a certain depth on golf course drive like I said, which will be completed later this year.

I

Okay, like we have those semis coming up, it's got: they're pairing up the track hose and the 53 feet, long trailers and there's they're, going in and out all the time, so the best effort that you're doing they're coming in and bouncing that stuff and breaking it right out of the holes you've got to find a way to do something that will alleviate the cost for you of having these people come out and putting stuff in the holes that aren't staying here. That's why I'm saying please try to find a better mousetrap for us.

G

Okay, I will look into it. Thank.

C

You anybody else have any questions. Yes,.

C

Did you state your name and address for the record? Yes,.

D

It's christine lombardi and I'm at 3660 golf course drive okay, very last house. Looking at the map, when is that supposed to be golf course drive really, it looks like you're going to put. This is a five foot eastman. Is that going to be a sidewalk and then another 45 feet for the road itself?

D

It says pedestrian five feet and then the road is about 45 feet and that's across from phase two. So if it wasn't across from phase two, I wouldn't be asking.

D

D

Later this year, so is it all going to be like torn up and then.

G

It's milled down to a certain depth, which means they're not removing everything, how much pavement, how much painting are they going to do.

D

We were told that, when this came about that golf course drive was not going to be part of the development correct.

G

It's actually part of, I mean it's part of the parcel.

D

It's its own buyer, okay. The access, then, is there going to be access for the homes from golf course drive.

C

D

But it's being used as transportation and for delivery, correct.

C

Until until then it's built out and then that'll be exclusive.

D

For your use, so then, if you're talking about only two inches and my husband had a commercial instruction.

C

He passed away.

D

Two years ago, but we talked about that a lot and it doesn't seem like that's gonna they're gonna keep using that road. Will they be cutting off the entrance to the club, the clubhouse? Yes, when will that be.

G

uh Clubhouse demo, in the next 60 days, the close-off of the whole clubhouse maintenance area by the of this year.

D

But what about the access? The access going on golf course drive. Maybe.

G

Completely cut off golf course drive okay,.

D

So you guys will be going in through higgins or something else. Okay, that's what I was wondering. Yeah.

C

Or or probably your main road, what's the main road is that actually higgins.

G

uh Higgins is the main cut through from greenwich to existing higgins, and then club view is an additional phase which will likely be the main going forward and then the extension office.

C

As well so the apartments very end redwood, then actually the back end of our development too. So it's right with one way and then into the golf course. So so by september you won't be using that for construction access at all, if you're in a pave by then.

G

That's what I was wondering is two inches with this one on somebody else's paperwork.

C

To a certain extent, also, one of the issue is that that road is actually owned by the developer. That's.

D

Right and so yeah.

C

D

Guess what we all pay the exact same taxes, even though we are have we're lucky. We have dirt and gravel and no lights and everything else. We pay the same taxes so.

C

But if you have a good base, I don't know if they do or not, but if you have a good base, two inches is just like. I mean they're, resurfacing, trotter and weber and hearts on all them right now and doing the same thing scraping it down and I'm gonna say, put two inches on it.

G

Two to three inches.

D

Are they gonna? Take it all the way up to the end of the golf course drive, you know, there's three or four houses on gravel right now. Are they going to? Are you going to be actually doing that you.

G

G

On the overall plan, which is available here to see.

D

Okay, yeah! That's where the last that's what my problem starts, but it's not. I think.

C

Any other questions.

C

Okay, if not I'd, entertain a motion on this application, this would be referred to as a final sketch plot per paragraph. Let me get it here for paragraph 1232.04.

C

You know anybody looking for looking for a motion, one or the other.

E

I make a motion to approve pc application spr for 2022.

G

A

Enter one two, three two point: oh four:.

C

D

C

uh A second thank you for a okay, any further discussion or questions on that.

C

If not, would you do a roll call, shannon? uh Yes,.

F

Stan yes, marion.

D

C

Ralph, yes, jim no.

F

C

Okay, so that motion passed 3-2 and that will go to council for their approval and uh at that stage you know you do have public comment at that stage. I would assume so, okay, so okay, well, based on that I'll pass that along to uh to shannon to go back uh for council's approval or action. Okay, uh I don't think there's any new business on the agenda bill, you're, aware of anything coming up, no okay, and then we we got a set of meeting minutes. However, I I was.

H

C

I was looking at about five o'clock and I didn't see them so uh can we hold on okay, so we'll hold on he's off to the next meeting but charlotte since you? I know you'd like to see the meeting, but it's will we'll get you a copy of these. Just so you're aware I haven't been getting them in the package. They haven't.

H

Been included in the package, I don't put them in the packets, they go to you guys.

C

C

Okay, you're always friendly when you're talking about uh we'll tell you what I I'll mark draft on here. If you'd like to see a copy I'll mark draft on your last set of meeting minutes, that's okay with you! So.

C

And I'll just sign this: oh okay, okay, and today is the 26th.

C

Okay and I'll give you charlotte, so you can at least read them and be aware what was going on. uh Fortunately, in the last set of meeting minutes, we didn't um you know we passed on uh five or six comments to them and they're gonna have to decide what to do so and I'd heard one of their options would be to come back and ask for mud.

C

Okay, so you can have those.

H

C

Other than that, uh there's no other comments or actions required. I'm gonna adjourn the meeting at uh was it 7 or 6 36. Thank you for all attending john. Let me find the right one.