City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire 2022 - 2024 City Council, 17 Oct 2022

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From YouTube: 10.17.2022 City Council Work Session RE: Stormwater Utility Feasibility Study

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10.17.2022 City Council Work Session RE: Stormwater Utility Feasibility Study

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All right well, uh thank you. Everyone for tuning in uh to tonight's um city council, work session.

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On a stormwater utility feasibility study, I'm going to pass it over to suzanne woodland in.

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Just a second, but you know, however, we manage to organize this work session immediately following.

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One of the biggest rain events that I can remember you know it's it's done in a effectively because.

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I think, as storm water of mitigation, the cost to engage with storm water is on all of our minds. At.

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Least, with those folks like myself, with a wet basement so really looking forward to this, I.

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Know this is like in the weeds, but I think this is one of the things where we can align on some.

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Some goals that ultimately benefit our our water system, uh both the the supply and the disposal so.

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Suzanne thanks so much great suzanne woodland, deputy city manager and deputy city attorney.

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So good evening I I'm excited to be here and talking about this subject um and so yeah we're.

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Going to talk this evening about a potential storm water utility and what I'm going to do is uh kind.

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Of lay out quickly, the road map and your tour guides for this evening study. So with me, this.

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Evening we have uh brian goetz, the deputy public works director and- and I man he brought the hat.

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uh We also have jamie mccarty who's, our gis and storm water manager. Also a public works. We have.

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Bill, our cherry from vhb he's been working with the city on stormwater uh issues and studying.

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It and helping us plan for it for quite quite a number of years now um and then we'll have.

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By zoom, we'll have david heider, who is our rate consultant of several years? He typically works.

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On our water and sewer rates- and we have drafted him for this purpose tonight- so brian and jamie.

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Will start out first giving an overview of the city's storm water system, then bill our cherry.

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Is really going to sort of walk you through the federal requirements? Because there are federal.

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Requirements for how we manage and deal with our storm water and the quality of that water, when it.

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Discharges to water bodies, so I really think when I put on my storm water hat and I think about how.

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We pay for it. I see the utility as a way to more equitably, distribute the costs that are related.

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To that, because we're going to pay for it one way or the other to meet those federal requirements.

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So the really the question is, how are you going to pay for it and who is going to pay for it so.

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That's really what I think about and then, as I said, dave heider is going to walk us through.

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Sort of the utility structure- these are not new. There are some in other places and really looking.

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At the finances of it, what would it look like for your residential homeowner? So that's kind of the.

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Tour and then we'll do a little q a and, of course, the mayor's discretion. We'll do the public comment.

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So one of the things we thought would be helpful because in the storm water land there's a lot of.

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um You could flip to the next side, there's a lot of um shorthands sometimes, and it helps.

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To define some basic terms so storm water is really your water from rain melting, snow or.

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Occasional sleet that doesn't soak into the ground impervious cover, so this is important.

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For determining really our payment, how we define who's going to pay, what any.

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Surface in the urban landscape that cannot effectively absorb or infiltrate rainfall.

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Is impervious covers so that includes things like sidewalks and roads. Rooftops parking lots.

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Then we have our epa ms4 permit and ms4 is the shorthand. We all use to talk about those federal.

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Requirements that federal permit it's municipal, separate storm sewer system, and none of us want.

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To say that so we all say ms4, so you will hear that often, and that really is referring to those.

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Federal requirements- bmps you'll, also hear that sort of talked about quite a bit. That's best.

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Management practices that includes your rain gardens and your other efforts that you make.

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Other structural vegetative to treat predict, treat prevent reduce water pollution so taking.

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Out some of those pollutants that are in storm water, particularly when it comes off roadways.

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um We're talking about a utility, so this is a fee based system. It's not a tax portsmouth, water and.

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Sewer enterprise funds, utilities and really that's the concept we're working off of here.

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um And really the whole purpose of the storm water utility is really to have.

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The funds necessary in order to create and address flood and erosion control measures.

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We know as we're just talking about the greater rain events to improve water call, water quality.

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Ecological preservation and really reduce those pollutant loads from storm water next slide.

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And so always a store, a starting point. Putting on the lawyer hat, we do have enabling legislation.

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Here in new hampshire that allows municipalities to develop storm water utilities. So with that, I'm.

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Turning it over to brian goetz, all right, thank you. Suzanne mayor you, you queued it up very well.

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um uh As we were preparing this, it was, it was quite dry and then yes, we got about two and a half.

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Inches of of rain uh thursday into friday, uh but uh rain much needed rain after a very dry summer.

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So we continue to be in somewhat of a drought, but certainly events like that if they continue.

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We will be out of a drought, but overall the the seacoast area and portsmouth averages 45 inches.

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Of precipitation, almost four feet of precipitation and basically we manage that in one way or another.

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Via our stormwater program and that program is dedicated to improving water quality and our.

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Drainage areas, reducing the flooding impacts. I think, though, we had two and a half inches of of.

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Rain on friday, we did not really have a whole lot of flooding. So that's that's a good credit.

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To someone to the stormont program and many of the other infrastructure improvements, we've had.

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Public education and overall management next slide. Please.

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So in in recognizing that in fy 19, the city created a separate storm water funding, a.

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Special revenue fund, which further identifies the the costs and efforts the city has put towards.

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Managing our storm water and currently now that fund is 50 percent funded from the general fund.

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And 50 from the sewer- and this has offered us the opportunity to improve our tracking.

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Of costs, the regulatory requirements as bill will speak to here in a little bit and project.

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Our future funding needs for uh for the system, including looking at a stormwater utility option.

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um So more recently, we've employed the services of vhd to further look at the stormwater utility.

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Aspects, one of the big components that jamie will talk about is how vhp went in and analyzed all the.

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Impervious areas for all properties in the city because again the impervious areas. How a fee-based.

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Approach would be based on and then again what future current and future regulatory requirements.

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Will impact us and with that information, david, heider and stantec have been able to put together.

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A utility pro forma and some rate projections and understand that a lot of the data that david will.

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Present speaks to an fy24. We don't anticipate that the budget itself will be ready by that.

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Time, but for pro forma purposes to talk about how utility is structured, that's his basis next slide.

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So what are the benefits? Well, you would have a dedicated funding source so again, currently we're.

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A 50 50. um fees base are the the funding is from the general fund and sewer the fee would be based.

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On the relative usage or volume produced on each property, I was speaking before this. It would be.

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Very similar: do you have a meter going into your house that measures the amount of water you use.

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This would be if you had a meter on your property, how much water comes off your property in a rain.

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Event or precipitation it's more sustainable and equitable, and it has the opportunity for improved.

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Watershed stewardship: this would be opportunities for each property owner to do their own they'd, be.

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Incentivized to do their own work on their own properties that you know would improve.

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Storm water management, low impact development and therefore they get some credits for that.

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And then it would assist us the with meeting the great bay total.

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Nitrogen general permit, so the general permit, as you may know, ties all of the.

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Water discharges in the city, both at our wastewater facilities and the storm water.

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Slide please so western kentucky has been doing this for a number of years and most recently.

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They updated their survey of stormwater utilities throughout the country and, as you can see by this.

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Map and also the information, this isn't really a unique concept. It's you know over 2, 000 of them.

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In the country but they're currently none in new hampshire, so I know I know, there's a couple other.

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Communities, dover and concord are looking into it, but there are currently no stormwater utilities.

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More recently, in new england, there are some recent examples I'm going to go through those in a second.

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And they also point out, you know what the average charges are um and how those basis of charges are.

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Are developed and it's essentially a monthly fee average of around six dollars per single.

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Family resident next slide, please uh so um near us, burlington vermont, very similar demographics.

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To the city of portsmouth, they spent a couple years reviewing what a storm water program would.

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Look like utility and they established a dedicated program in 2009 and currently they have a budget.

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Of about two million dollars per year next slide northampton mass in 2014 they spent a year and a.

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Half deliberating on this- and you can see here they they base the property owners on size of.

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Square footage, so they they fit into different categories in their bay, build accordingly and.

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Then, with the larger commercial and properties they calculated on an individual basis based.

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On the estimated area of surface impervial pervious surface on their property next slide.

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uh More recently, portland maine again spent two years implementing a stormwater utility program.

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This is how they base their equivalent residential unit, so they essentially prorate based on amount.

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Of impervious cover- and you can see they offer credits up to 50 percent for residential.

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Properties and sixty percent on commercial properties for storm water bmps next slide.

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Thank you um so we've put together a tentative timeline, as, as I said,.

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um To to get everything rolled out and and developed, and enough back and forth with with.

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Council and and really implementing such program in in realistic terms, will be soon into budget.

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For fy 24, so there's certain components it would have to be totally ironed out. Prior to that, so we.

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Anticipate this work session, which is occurring right now, there'll be some follow-up and then we.

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Would take the feedback from tonight to continue our program development and, uh if, if it seems.

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Feasible and doable and something the council wants to continue to pursue. We would continue on.

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That and sometime next year be in this in a sense where a stormwater utility would be part of the.

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Fy25 budget and then july 1, the pro program would begin. But again this is all pro forma. This is just.

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Basically, based on, what's most realistic and again very similar to the communities I pointed to the.

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Timeline they spent for that. So with that, I'm going to turn it to jamie real, quick he's going.

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To just provide a quick snapshot of the storm water system, we have in the components there.

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Thank you, brian. Thank you all. I'm jamie mccarty, I'm the gis and stormwater manager for the city.

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Next slide, so as the gis manager, I like to use maps to tell some of the story so.

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um Stormwater system really began as the sewer system, any water that needed to be directed off.

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Of impervious surfaces was put into the sewer and sent out to the river next slide. But as the city.

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Developed and primary treatment was developed for the city. The city found that the system was being.

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um Inundated and overwhelmed- and there was a need to separate the storm water system from.

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The sewer so in the 50s, they began their first uh stormwater separation projects next slide.

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So, in an ideal system you have a separate storm water system from the sewer shown.

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On the figure on the right and it's the green pipes taking water from the street and sending.

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It away the city itself has over 60 miles of piping over 3000 catch basins. Almost a.

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Thousand manholes all directly related to the storm water system. We already have quite a few.

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Treatment systems that are managed by the city and we have 204 regulated outfalls. So these.

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Are outfalls that fall under the ms4 permit and require us to do regular observations.

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Wet weather sampling of them so I'll speak to that a little bit more in a minute. Next slide.

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um Suzanne briefly mentioned bmps: these are the treatment devices around the city. I hear some.

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Examples you've got your rain gardens tree box filters, underground storage, sand filters.

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Pervious pavement: these are all types of emps that the city implements next slide. So we've.

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Talked about impervious surface, so the map on the left. There shows all the impervious surfaces in.

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The city, which represents about 28 percent of the total land area in the city. But what you'll.

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See also is that the number one property parcels in the city by count are residential properties.

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But they don't represent, you know the largest impervious surfaces within the city, so next slide.

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So some of the operational uh stuff that the city does we, we clean catch basins, regularly.

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We're inspecting them we're cleaning and inspecting the drain lines. These are all.

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Requirements of our permit street sweeping is an important aspect of our storm water.

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Management leaf collection also, so next slide. uh So that's more of the operational stuff. This is.

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Emps can also be non-structural, so a lot of these um efforts that we do with public outreach.

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Including you know, educating the public about how to pick up pick up after their uh pets, uh how to.

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Properly handle uh and manage lawns leaf litter, and we also send out mailers to businesses.

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Encouraging them to use low impact development pro and and contracting green snow pro certified.

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Winter operations contractors slide so currently and in the next year, so we've just started our.

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Year, five of the permit we're going to be continuing, wet weather investigation, so.

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When we get a, you know at least a third of an inch of rain, we go out and we sample out falls.

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um We're about 50 of the way through 204 outfall, so we have to visit during not the.

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Best conditions, but um we're then investigating the catchments for those outfalls. That's that.

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That involves uh looking into the system further upstream and in the next year, we're gonna.

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Continue to implement our salt reduction plan next slide so now I'll hand it off to bill.

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Thanks jamie, oh thanks, jamie good evening. My name is bill at cherry a water resource consultant with.

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Vhb, so I'm going to give a brief overview of the ms4 permit requirements next slide. Please.

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So the permit uh came out in 2017 became effective in 2018 and lasts for five years.

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It'll be re renewed next year in 2023. uh The new hampshire permit applies to 44 communities. These.

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Highlighted in blue, which are centered in the south central the southeast portion of the state.

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These represent the more densely developed, uh towns and city of the state.

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So the permit has essentially six minimum control measures. Public education messages that jamie just.

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Highlighted uh that need to be distributed every year to focus on an educating residents about.

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Particular issues on water quality, the public involvement, engagement piece, which is provide.

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An opportunity for residents to have input on the still model program which the city does.

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Through various heat hearings and meetings and the postings on the dpw website, the illicit discharge.

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Detection and elimination program, which is probably the most labor intensive, which is.

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The sampling outfall that jamie just mentioned, sampling in dry weather, sampling and wet weather.

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And investigate investigating either each of the outfalls to make sure that there aren't.

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Things connected into the storm drain system that shouldn't be connected into the storm drain system.

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So that that requires a fair amount of effort, the permit does allow 10.

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Years for this to be completed, which in jamie's city is about 50, complete.

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um The permit also requires that the city adopt enhance stone water regulations that would require.

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New and redevelopment projects to have enhanced treatment on their property or greater treatment.

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On the property and the city has adopted those regulations, I think at the end of 2021.

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This good housekeeping measures, which is the catch basin cleaning the street, sweeping.

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The leaf litter pickup, the handling materials, the dpw stores, things of that sort.

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The other measure is um developing separate plans and come on measures to reduce.

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The any contributions to water quality impairments, which.

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uh There are a few chloride, nitrogen and bacteria in the city next slide. Please.

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So what do we expect going forward as a permit is going to be renewed next year?.

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um The epa has already signaled they'll, probably continue with the six minimum measures.

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And they've also indicated they'll probably require more storm water treatment.

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Of city property permit, it's, the current permit already requires at least one stormwater bmp.

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Be installed at the end of 2024., but they are likely to probably incorporate some of the same.

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Requirements that are in the great bay total nitrogen general permit to require additional.

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Treatment to reduce the nitrogen there'll be the continued sampling of the stormwater outfalls.

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The city we have developed a salt reduction plan to um make salt use more efficient and you and.

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Reduce the chloride impairments and then their continued good housekeeping measures as well.

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One other aspect that the permit requires is tracking of stormwater bmps, that the.

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City has installed and tracking the operation of maintenance of these bmps.

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As well as the operation of maintenance on private property of bmps, so this program.

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Called the ptap pollutant, tracking and accounting program has been developed over the years with.

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The collaboration of the unh stormwater center representatives from various seacoast communities.

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That new hampshire des so this program allows the city to do this tracking.

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And part of the new regulations also required that private property owners maintain their.

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Stomata bmps as well so make sure that they are functioning. So that's something that.

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Jamie's doing on this ptap, it also addresses the great bay total nitrogen permit. Compliance.

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And so focusing on sort of what are the bigger things that are going to.

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Perhaps have the biggest ms4 compliance costs future the mentioned the salt reduction plan.

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There will be some equipment upgrades needed to use more liquid disorder to.

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Make salt use more efficient, um the stone mountain infrastructure improvements, the bmp retrofits.

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And not directly related to the permit itself, but the system capacity needs to handle extreme.

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Precipitation events and meet the city more resilient for climate change, which would be.

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Addressed through the capital improvement plan, so lastly, when we um next slide, please.

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um So as part of the stonewater massa plan that we completed earlier in the year.

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We did look at projections for future compliance costs for the ms4 permit.

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um For the various activities you can see for this current year and last year, fiscal 2022.

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There was cross items in there for idd and catchment investigation and.

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These are just the lab costs and the field equipment costs, um professional services.

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um And it kind of a totals of 64 65 thousand dollars, but going into fiscal 24 is when some.

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Of the implementation pieces, particularly the assault reduction plan, the equipment upgrades, we.

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Do have a lineup for the sagamore creek watership plan, which would address the bacteria issues.

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In that watershed and we'd start getting into planning and engineering for the stormwater bmps.

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And then the actual construction costs which are in there is sort of a line out of a spider bite.

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Bonding financing program so that the total costs begin to creep up.

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Considerably, um I think, 300 to 450 000 by fiscal 27., and at this point I will head.

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Over to david heider who's joining us by video to talk about the stillwater utility and the.

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Various options, thank you bill all right. Thank you bill good evening. Can everybody hear me? Okay,.

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Nope, yes, yep all right, perfect all right! um Well, thank you for letting me join my video and I'm.

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Going to talk just overall about the structure of the utility and to get to that point, we want.

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To talk about the revenue requirements, what does it actually cost to provide stormwater service.

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We'll talk a little bit more about impervious area and how that leads into the stormwater fee.

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Structure and look at some options there and then I'll wrap up with stormwater fee credits.

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So, on the next slide, just in terms of how we've developed the revenue requirements, so we took the.

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Fiscal year 23 stormwater budget and use that as a starting point and then we've really augmented.

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That with what does this look like if it's a standalone enterprise fund, so we've allocated.

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The shared salaries amongst water, sewer and storm water I'll talk about that more in a minute.

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And then we've also augmented it with the expenditures that were identified in the.

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Master plan so many of the expenditures that bill just touched on, including the ms4 compliance.

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And just the needs of the system going forward and then in order to look at a longer term, projection.

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We did forecast each of the expenditures to assume for some inflation going forward.

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So on the next slide, as brian mentioned, we're using 24s just as our starting point and this.

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Is a pro forma only as brian mentioned, we're, anticipating, potentially having.

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The fee in place by fiscal year 25, so they can. This is just the starting point.

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But what this shows is just the major categories of expenditures, so salaries, operations and.

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Maintenance in the system, vehicles, equipments and then the last two are the regulatory requirements.

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And when we look at your current budget for fiscal year, 23 inflate that a little bit for 24.

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That's what's represented there in the existing column and then, as we go over to the right, we.

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Have some additional additions to the stormwater expenditures in fiscal year, 24. to account for the.

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Fact that it would be a standalone enterprise fund, so you're currently splitting costs when.

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It comes to salaries and benefits between water sewer, the general fund, and this would now split.

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Costs between water, sewer, storm water and the general fund, so just really a reallocation of.

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Salaries and benefits and any other items were identified in the master plan. Additional o m.

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Additional vehicles and then the ms4 compliance and the great pain total nitrogen compliance.

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Bringing it to a total of 1.9 million, but I think one of the most important distinctions.

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Here is that these additions are not due to the formation of a potential utility, but these are.

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Really cost when we look at what does it truly cost to provide stormwater service and obviously.

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Some of the changes that bill alluded to in terms of regulatory requirements so on the next slide.

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I'm just showing it in a slightly different manner. You can see the biggest percentage, our.

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Biggest component of the fiscal year, 24 revenue requirements is salaries and benefits and again.

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That's not really new individuals, it's mostly allocations or reallocations of existing staff.

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And then the other big components are the regulatory compliance costs which are over about a.

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Half a million dollars within that ms4 compliance cost. We are including a million dollars per year.

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In capital costs which we're assuming would be debt funded over um a certain period of time,.

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So, on the next slide, we in terms of how we forecast things forward. As I mentioned, we.

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Did take on a line item by line and a basis we're forecasting over a 10-year period, salaries, wages.

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Repair and maintenance, the various line items assuming inflation factors on those.

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And then for that capital cost we are assuming that you would debt fund that 30-year maturity.

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At a at a five percent interest rate, so what this looks like on the next slide over the.

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Forecast period so we're starting again fiscal year, 24 purely a pro forma 1.9 million dollars.

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In total, you can see the various components that make up the expenditures and we're forecasting.

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That by 2031 with inflation, the ongoing capital investment for the ms4 compliance that should.

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Be about 2.4 million by that point in time, but obviously this is just a forecast at this point.

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So that's the revenue requirements now I want to talk about kind of transition to talk about what.

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The fee structure and the utility would look like, and we've spent a lot of time talking.

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About impervious area this evening, and the reason that's important is because that's.

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As brian mentioned, that's really the basis for how most communities assess the stormwater fee.

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It's been shown that impervious cover on a parcel is the number one factor for the.

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Amount of runoff that's going to be generated on that parcel or stormwater contributions.

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So what you can see here is in terms of the distribution or the the amount.

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Of impervious commercial has the largest percentage single family has only about.

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15 percent of the total impervious, but they make up about 70 percent of the total parcels.

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So that factor is important when we consider kind of the administration of the stormwater fee.

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So next slide, we just need to make some decision points in terms of who would pay the stormwater.

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Fee and there's pretty common precedent within the industry in terms of what types of properties.

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Would be exempted and the one that by far is most common is public and public roads.

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And right-of-ways because essentially the public, roads and right-of-ways serve as a.

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Key component of the stormwater system, so the curb and gutter and things of that fort sort.

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Help to convey stormwater in the system so very, very common to not assess the stormwater fee to.

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Public roads and right-of-ways also entities that have their own ms4 permits are exempted. Typically.

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So we've exempted the peas development authority and then for practical and administrative purposes.

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We're assuming that any parcel that has less than 400 square feet of impervious.

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How would not be charged just because you have these slivers and things of that sort.

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So, on the next slide, we've come up with a couple different options for how you could assess the.

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Stormwater fee for single-family residential parcels and the reason we're we're looking.

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At these options is, if you can remember the vast majority of your parcels or single-family.

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Residential, so it's common to consider some administrative simplicities and things of that.

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Sort, so what we're looking at is the first option would be a three-tiered structure.

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um Where we'll put single-family homes into various buckets of impervious and I'll talk about.

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That more in a minute which would have a differing fee based upon the tier that you'd fall in.

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Another option which some communities have have implemented would just be a uniform.

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Fee for all single family, so no recognition of any differentiation in a previous area on the.

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Single family parcels, what we would recommend for non-single family would be that it be based.

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On measured impervious and they set that as an equivalent or per equivalent residential unit,.

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So I'll dive into the details a little bit here, so this is the distribution of single.

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Family impervious area on the bottom we've got the impervious area, as you move left to right.

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And then the parcel count shows the number of parcels with the this amount of impervious area.

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That are single family and you can see it is a nice bell-shaped distribution, pretty.

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Typical distribution that we see when we look at storm water utilities and by far the most common.

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um Single family parcel has 2500 square feet of of impervious area located on a so given this.

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Distribution when we look at the next slide, we can consider a kind of an administrative, simplifying.

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Factor we can use, which is to put single-family homes into various tiers of impervious.

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And so there is a statistical analysis that we do in terms of how to develop these tiers. So we take.

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The mode and then we look at the setting tier two as a one standard deviation, which gives us those.

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Break points between tiers one tier 2 and tier three, and then we look at tier one. We essentially.

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um Establish the midpoint there to um to develop the fee itself, which I'll talk about in the next.

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Slide, but in terms of tier three, that would be anybody over 4 000 square feet of impervious so.

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400 to 1500 square feet of burvies could be put in one bucket. If you have a single family home.

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That's fifteen to four thousand: that's by far the vast majority, almost 3 000 personals. There.

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And then over four thousand square feet would be tier three and there's about 686 partials. There.

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So, finally, on the next slide, the way that we would actually.

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Calculate the fees we take the statistical midpoint of each of these tiers, so we look.

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At how the midpoint, based on the number that fall below the midpoint and above to make sure.

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We have a representative grouping there and then we can actually set the fee at the same dollar per.

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Square foot for each of the midpoints, and so this turns into 2.97 for a tier one. Vast majority fall.

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Into tier two that'd be 676 and then tier 3 would be 13.79 and that's a monthly fee.

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So, on the next slide, I just have some samples just to give you a sense for what this looks.

F

Like so residential using this option, one, the first tier would be a small parcel.

F

They'd, be all arsenals falling in that tier one would be 0.440 erus.

F

And that's just an equivalent residential unit tier two everybody would be one eru and then.

F

Tier three, that would be basically two erus and then the way this is applied to non-residential.

F

Parcels is you take the actual impervious area on the parcel. You divide it by that eru.

F

Which we've defined as 2500 square feet and that turns into 41 erus for this, this sample parcel.

F

So, on the next slide, I have what this just a summary of the option, one so again: single family.

F

They'd be put into their tiers based on their impervious area, the 297 696 76 1379. You can see.

F

The equivalence erus associated with that and then the total number of parcels that fall into each.

F

And then to the right, I have the non-single family residential and these are all based on actual.

F

Measured impervious as a as divided by 2500 square feet, so you can see multifamily you'd have about.

F

4490 erus on 895 parcels, so the multiples there all erus would pay the 676. and just to caveat.

F

One of the reasons why you don't do measured for all parcels is just because of the administrative.

F

Burden that would would result from doing that for all single-family homes. If you wanted to take it.

F

Even simpler on the next slide for option two: is you could do single family just treat everybody.

F

The same regardless of impervious on single family, there are communities that do this. They.

F

Pay the 676 for everybody and then non-residential wouldn't wouldn't differ under this option too.

F

So in the next few slides, I just have some samples. So this is that small parcel 1400.

F

Square feet of impervious under option one, they would fall into tier one, so they'd pay.

F

297 under option two, they would pay more 676, because everybody would would pay the same.

F

On the next slide is that average parcel, which has got 2 700 square feet of impervious.

F

So one eru, so it wouldn't matter to that parcel which which option you chose they.

F

Would pay the same and then finally, a large personal, this one's got almost 10 000 square.

F

Feet of impervious so they would be treated as two erus under option, one so paying the 1379.

F

Option two: obviously they pay less, because everybody would pay the same.

F

And then, finally, a commercial property. This property's got about a hundred thousand square.

F

Feet of impervious that equates to 41 erus again dividing by the the definition of an eru at 2500.

F

So they would pay about 277 dollars um per month in stormwater fees,.

F

Next slide and then I just wanted to conclude this portion of the discussion with an example, and this.

F

Is purely pro forma and just calculations to demonstrate kind of a status quo versus.

F

What we're talking about this evening? So if we were to generate two million dollars for storm.

F

Water and if we were to take the current approach, which is to fund at 50 50 between.

F

Property taxes or the general fund and the sewer rates that would equate to about.

F

The 16 cents, so an annual cost for a typical single family home of about 78 dollars.

F

The sewage bill portion would be 52 dollars. That's assuming five units per month.

F

And so in total, just on average 130 dollars per year for a single family home.

F

Whereas if you do the stormwater utility, as I mentioned, we're generating about two million.

F

Dollars it would be 676 or 81 dollars per year and the reason I bring this up is it just it.

F

Gets to one one of the primary issues of why a community would consider a stormwater utility.

F

It's what brian mentioned early on is that it aligns the use of the system.

F

With how you recover those costs, so the value of somebody's property or how much sewage.

F

They generate or water they use really is not correlated with the use of the stormwater system.

F

And so generally, as communities have increasing costs, they often consider transitioning to.

F

Something that would be more equitable in terms of how they recover those costs.

F

So the final section I have is just to talk about credits and this one another one of the.

F

Benefits of a stormwater utilities that you can offer stormwater fee credits which are just just.

F

Really ongoing reductions in the fee charged to a property if they have qualifying stormwater.

F

Management and they recognize the fact that if you get a, if you get a property owner to manage.

F

Stormwater on their site, it does reduce the impacts to the um to the city's system and the.

F

Expenditures- and they have been found to encourage property owners to proactively manage their their.

F

Stormwater impact, so it gives you that vehicle to to encourage proper management of stormwater.

F

What's some typical credits look like are shown here, um so commercial properties they're generally.

F

Required to have certain structural bmps, so you can offer credits for those which would be.

F

Detention basins, on-site storage, any type of green infrastructure, low impact development practices.

F

Things of that sort from a single family, partial standpoint, you can offer credits for cisterns or.

F

Dry wells or rain gardens things things of that sort. If people put in permeable pavements or.

F

Green roof. um You can offer credits for those. There are communities that offer educational.

F

Credits, so if you're a public or private school and you teach a qualifying curriculum.

F

You could get a credit recognizing that community program. So if you have cleanup events, things like.

F

That you can have credits associated with that and then in terms of finally social equity credits.

F

There are communities they're a little bit less common, but that do offer credits for low-income.

F

Financial hardships, tax exempt religious entities, things of that sort- those are.

F

Just some examples I will say on the next slide: it's important to consider how you structure the.

F

Credit program to make sure that you can manage it, that it's not a you know huge administrative.

F

Burden, but some of the typical questions you need to ask is who's eligible. So would this be.

F

Something that all properties could be eligible for credits there are communities, they only offer.

F

Them to non-residential, for various reasons, to simplify it as well as generally non-residential.

F

Properties can do more to reduce their impact, but you can certainly offer to anybody. You need.

F

To figure out what activities would qualify and how you'd you'd verify those you need to figure.

F

Out, how do you administer it? Most communities have a credit manual, some type of application and then.

F

Determine you know what is the credit that that's going to be offered and is there a maximum most.

F

Communities don't offer 100 credit there, they recognize the the public benefit of managing.

F

Stormwater throughout the community, so they'll generally cap, the credits at at 50 or 60 percent.

F

um But most credit programs that I see do evolve over time. You can start small and.

F

And as you want to encourage certain behaviors or if you're not getting the participation, you want.

F

You can certainly change the credit program so with that I will turn it back to suzanne.

B

To the mayor for.

A

Thank you, david uh good, to uh see you again the um I guess any questions from the council counselor.

A

Denton, oh council, all right, we'll just take your honor hands. um First and foremost, I remember when.

G

The stormwater fund was created and fy 19. I've been excited about the idea of an enterprise.

G

Fund uh since it first came up conversation when it came to the tiers between the two options, which.

G

Were presented, I strongly support the um while having a tiered system, but why couldn't you do.

G

The opposite of a flat fee and actually charge per square foot. Does that question makes sense.

G

Yes, I'm david, you uh do you want me to dress it up pretty well, there's david yeah! um You could.

F

You could charge everybody based on measured impervious, but the challenge there is just.

F

The administration, in terms of, um as I mentioned, I think, like 70 of your parcels, are single family, so.

F

In order to simplify how you'd have to you know manage it, and we do see just having I've actually.

F

Served as kind of a call center person for utility after they implemented a stormwater utility and.

F

One of the common complaints that people would call in and they wouldn't realize that there they.

F

Wouldn't measure their eaves on the roof, and so the impervious area is actually larger than they'd.

F

Measure, if they measured at the ground level and it just kind of gets to some of those issues of.

F

How detailed you need to be in terms of the the measurements in the potential complaints.

F

And questions, but there are communities that have implemented based on actual measured for everybody.

G

Based on your response again I'll support the tiered system, I do have some questions regarding.

G

The best practices I saw in the budget- that's starting in fy- I believe it was 24 there'd, be 75.

G

000 and then that amount would increase every year was that solely for the city's.

G

Use or is there any thought, maybe it could be put towards um like rain buckets for rain.

G

Barrels for individual households to use- I know it's years out, I'm just wondering.

G

If there's been any that's a very good question well similar, we have the uh rebate program for.

C

Our uh you know, toilet uh high efficiency, washing machines and low toilets could be a similar thing.

C

Where a portion of that money, the whole key would be, is something going to get built that increased.

C

Monies as david and and bill spoke to, it goes like 75 150. It goes up because each year, your finance.

C

We're anticipating we would finance about a million dollars worth of infrastructure, so you're.

C

You're paying on that debt, so, just like with water and sewer, you start with one year's worth of debt.

C

Then you have two years and and three years and and so on, other communities that I've seen they.

C

Fund as you go, so it's it's a much better way to implement like our water and sewer than saying we.

C

Just need a million dollars this year and and build it because you know we're talking about.

C

Infrastructure that is going to be there for quite a long time, and I one last comment when it comes.

G

To the mitigating measures, I'd encourage you to just inquire with the conservation commission.

G

They've been dealing with these kind of issues for some time, and I know we're some time off from then.

G

A good resource, councilor and councilmani. Thank you um and thank you suzanne. Thank you. Brian thank.

H

You jamie and david and bill. um I think this is a very positive thing for the community. I I.

H

Want people to realize that this is not a new tax, this is just the cost, is proportion is apportioned.

H

Differently I was looking at slide number 49 and currently an average single family home would.

H

Pay 130 dollars towards storm water. Under this proposal they would save 48 dollars and 88 cents.

H

um Because they would only potentially be paying 81.12 cents.

H

Am I correction that those assumptions will speak, have david jump back in on on that one david.

F

Yeah that that is correct. um It's just a like. You said it's just a realignment.

F

In terms of the proportionality, so under that circumstance, um yes, single family would pay less.

H

um I just think, given the high property taxes given high taxes, um of course, and then this would.

H

Re portion, those taxes to commercial properties that would pay their fair share, so I'd be very.

H

Supportive, this council bluff councilor embroidery, then counselor bagley all right. Thank you. Mayor.

I

Just a couple comments uh disappointing: that peas is not included in this. um It there's.

I

Huge impervious parking lots out there and huge impervious buildings just seems like I know. That's.

I

Not considered portsmouth property so but we do, but we do, but we do manage their water and their.

I

In their storm, water too, as well as far as I know so, peas is is tricky. They do have.

B

um Their own stormwater obligations, both under a federal permit as well, which I.

B

They're in the process of applying for for a new permit, as well as agreements with you know,.

B

Other entities, so they have their own obligations now the city does maintain the streets out there.

B

Pursuant to the msa, so we do limited work from a storm water perspective within our right-of-way.

B

um But when you get past that we really sort of fall into that, we have a different role once we.

B

Get past the right of ways, that's not to say that there might not be some opportunities as.

B

We go forward to do more stuff jointly. We've talked about that in terms of you know. If.

B

They discover an illicit discharge, for example, and need our assistance in helping to chase it.

B

Down so there are some opportunities for working together, but they are kind of their own separate.

B

uh You know entity out there, um so that's why we wouldn't include them in this storm water.

B

Utility at least as it as we currently envision it and given the current regulatory structure,.

A

Just a quick quote, or do you have a follow-up directly on the piece.

A

Beyond peace, yeah beyond piece guys, just one question on peace, so they they currently pay.

A

Stormwater fee, as it presents itself in the usage fee for sewer, correct.

B

Correct they they are charged uh just like every other sewer user. Yes, okay,.

A

um How would we make sure that we're not losing money to p's if we enact something that uh would.

A

Be separating this out as a zone enterprise fund, how do we account for p's continuing to pay their.

A

Fair share, since we are moving away from storm warriors, a part of the general fund and sewer fee.

B

That's a good question. I know we've talked a little bit about how to how to manage that. I don't.

B

Know if david or brian or anyone wants to weigh in, I think that's something we need to think about.

C

Good point mayor, but I don't think we have a direct answer to that one okay tonight, but.

C

It would, I think, involve a bit more discussion with with the pda which we have had. You know we.

C

Also, have the new and mpds permit there that the previous permit actually did tie stormwater in so.

C

That this is a little bit of the complicating factor there at peas because they and suzanne.

C

Could speak to this, but the previous permit from the discharge of the the wastewater plant.

C

Included this storm water, foam, correct and now it's separated out, but that just came out so.

C

So, just on it would be, I guess, helpful to know uh you know, because pda and the service agreements.

A

Pretty big bailiwick there, so I think the council and councilor lombardi recruiting myself would be.

A

Interested to know, uh regardless of whether or not they have an ms4 designation, what are the legal.

A

Avenues that we have around even contemplating that with regard to uh to to peace, um moving.

A

Forward considering our the current arrangement does provide for uh their payment of stormwater.

A

Via the sewer right yeah, we'll we'll give that some further thought they're not an ms4. um They.

B

Have us they've applied for a separate permit, it's the nature of the entity that they are okay,.

A

All right, sorry, counselor! No! That's good! That's that's a good point.

I

um A couple other things I, I guess, because.

I

You say that you know these 50 percent of this storm water costs now are being.

I

Taken out of the sewer fund, so I I assume that when this is a separate.

I

Bill, if you will the sewer the sewer bill will drop.

I

Right david, you did a minute analysis, but it was. It was so much we. We do project out, um counselor.

C

So, each year as we do our rate projections um it would it be factored in so certainly uh david. You.

C

Could add a little bit more on that sure so right now your budget for stormwater hundred and dollars.

F

Half of them is coming, and so when we look at that playing it forward a couple years.

F

um Rather than potentially I mean, we need to need to run the analysis in future years,.

F

As well as this moves forward, but given the magnitude, that's that's not a huge component.

F

Or not a huge piece of the of the sewer rates, if you will, and so it may be, that rather than.

F

You know, we've talked in the past about needing to continually increase sewer rates. That may be.

F

That the city may may be able to just hold them steady or have less of an increase in the future.

F

As you peel those costs off, but again your total revenue requirements on the sewer side and.

F

This is just from memory, I think, is close to 17 million dollars, so I think the 300.

F

000 doesn't have a huge impact in terms of pulling that away. If that makes sense.

I

Just one one more thing: you say that the importance of street sweeping um and the.

I

The you know: catch basin cleaning, um just just an observations street queen street sweeping.

I

Does not seem to go on a schedule, and I know most major cities have a schedule for street sweeping.

I

um And what I've seen it just this is just personal observation is that the street.

I

Sweeper comes along on my street and there's cars parked on both sides of the road and.

I

um So they can't really clear the areas that are needed to be cleared for storm water.

I

um And so I mean I, I hear the street sweeper come. I run out and I move my car right, so they.

I

Can but nobody else does I'm, I think people think I'm a little nutsy here, but uh I do that.

I

um If, if it is there any plan, perhaps to put you know, portsmouth on a street sweeping schedule.

I

So counselor this very perceptive or it's almost as if you're you're in some of our meetings that.

H

Public works because we've been working with jamie and this this involves uh our parking division as.

C

Well, so um they are involved in some of the the maintenance, especially uptown, but we are going.

C

To to look to do more of a schedule, more of an outreach, as part of our outreach is, is actually.

C

Going to message people, but a lot of communities will have like. Let's say you know, every other.

C

Tuesday night or something this street, you can't park there or certain times of the day where you.

C

Have to be off that, and so that will be scheduled and and put forward. But you know we'll have to.

C

Work with parking on that one and and first we're internally, jamie's been working with with peter.

C

Rice and and staff you know at public works and the parking about actually implementing that.

C

Very thing so that we can you know, one thing is to let people know a bit more where we're going.

C

To be when we're going to be, secondly, it's again to identify the areas where we need to. You know.

C

Have people off the street and then you know be able to to do the cleaning that way having been.

I

In new york for a big part of my life, I I'm very familiar with alternate side of the street parking.

J

Not so badly yeah. Thank you um for clarity. For me, um the reason we're doing this is is.

J

To meet federal and state requirements, this will not add any money or cost to the budget.

J

Because we're doing this, this is stuff we'd have to do, and what we're discussing here tonight is how we're going to pay for it.

A

Yeah you're only caveat and let anybody else that, as we move forward as a city, the the costs of both.

A

Compliance and climate change will require more investment, especially around storm water and so to.

A

Split those out into a separate utility and then how do we pay for that? Utility based on usage is.

A

The conversation that we're we're having tonight does that I think we're saying the same thing, but.

J

Yeah, I just I guess- maybe I'm speaking a little bit to the folks at home- is we're not looking to.

J

Add cost to the city? What we're looking to do is we have costs that we have to pay that are.

J

Going to go up in the future and we're looking for a more equitable way to pay those costs.

A

Yes, I would say have to pay. I mean I wouldn't want to give the impression that we got all the.

A

Storm water, uh you know, pipes in the ground that we need now or we'll need in the future.

A

We'll continue, as you know, regulations increase uh to require. uh You know to be more to better.

A

Stewards of the the water that discharges into the into the river, but the immediate uh immediate I.

A

Guess take away from uh council billak's point: is that there's a cost right now? It is born on.

A

A square footage basis more by residential users than commercial users, and so this is to align that.

A

To the people that have the most square, footage that are creating the most storm water, runoff.

J

Okay, thank you and I guess I have a just a couple, quick comments about the the history of sewer and.

J

Portsmouth kind of how we got here, um I did some research on the south mill pond and.

J

A long time ago there was a steam factory rope walk along the mill pond and if you go back to.

J

The 1850s- I couldn't research further back, but there were a lot of articles about the waste.

J

And the effulent and the smell and as you go through the years, as many of you know, atlantic.

J

Heights was built in 1918 paid for by the federal government as part of the war effort. One of the.

J

Crowning achievements of that was that when it was finished in 1918, it had more bathrooms.

J

Than anywhere else in portsmouth or or the rest of portsmouth combined, and it was very.

J

Environmentally friendly because they all flushed directly into the swift moving the scatterco river.

J

River, so I guess what I'm trying to say here with my long story is that um for a very long time,.

J

Storm warner and sewage because effectively we're doing this because the sewage and the stormwater.

J

Co-Mingle and when they co-mingle, we have overflows and when the overflows happen, there's.

J

Sewage in the overflow so we're trying to reduce that from happening. If you talk to many residents.

J

Who went to the middle school several decades ago? They talk about how in the fall and the spring.

J

They couldn't open the windows, even though it was very hot, because the smell was so bad.

J

um You go on and on. um We all know that when the pierce island, sewage treatment plant was.

J

Built it was quite contentious there. It was three locations: nobles island, north mill, pond and pierce.

J

Island being considered, we all know where it ended up, um so this is all kind of the cumulation of.

J

Really centuries worth of work, and it's not adding cost to the city in the sense that.

J

We're not creating something new that we have to pay for. It's something that we're going to have.

J

To do because one of regulations and two because we want to be in good environmental stewards and.

J

What this is doing is saying that if you want to have a giant parking lot at your residence.

J

Or at your place of business and you're, going to create more storm water. Because of that.

J

You're going to have to pay for that percentage of stormwater you create if you want to have a small.

J

House with no driveway, so everything is permeable, you're going to have less of an impact you're.

J

Going to create less storm water, so we're not going to charge you as much so the way I see this.

J

Is we're incentivizing residents and commercial to mitigate their storm water, whereas now they really.

J

Have no reason to do uh mitigate it, so we're giving them a financial incentive to reduce the.

J

Amount of storm water when they reduce the amount of storm water, it's better for the environment, so.

J

This accomplishes two things that makes a much more equitable way to charge for the stormwater.

J

Runoff and it gives everyone in town a financial incentive to reduce their storm water runoff.

A

Thank you, councilman councilor cook and council moreau conservative.

K

Thank you mayor um and thank you so much for the presentation. It was quite quite thorough.

K

um I do have one question around single-family residential um potential appeals. um I I know.

K

That many single-family resident residential owners in in portsmouth have already tried.

K

To mitigate some storm water on their properties and that's not necessarily obvious from the maps.

K

um Is there a process envisioned for appealing um your say, we do a tiered system and in appealing.

K

Your square footage, and, if so, have we budgeted for the cost of going through.

K

And doing all those appeals, um because staff clearly would have to visit site to do that.

C

That um council, that that would likely be part of you, know the credit program. So we do envision.

C

You know currently, we have have jamie his staff, dan and svetlana. um That would and again this is.

C

Part of the the program there's a great question to ask, because these are things where we can get.

C

Back with a little more detail, but yes, we would envision. You know just such as let's say we had.

C

The three-tier and somebody ends up in the third tier and they say wait a second. You know I think.

C

You made a mistake, so there would be a mechanism whereby you know they they would come to us and.

C

Jamie and staff would review and and then we could correct if, if that were the case, that.

C

Would be straightforward but then also if they do have a management. um You know they are doing.

C

Something on property that we don't know about then the same thing. It would be an application.

C

And then we validate it and uh you know one of the the key points of uh you know putting.

C

These bm mps in and having a credit, um a form, you know because you know you're going to get.

C

The credit, if you have a rain guard, but let's say you let it go to grass and five years from.

C

Now it's no longer a rain garden, we would have a mechanism whereby we'd say you know, look you no.

C

Longer are going to get the credit, because you have not maintained that so there'd be kind of.

C

A renewal on that as well, so I I think that whole program would be developed with. With that in mind,.

K

Thank you customer. Oh sorry, I was just going to add a. I think that was part of david heider's kind.

B

Of caution at the end, which is keep your structure simple, at least at the beginning, because you.

B

Really don't want to be spending too much staff time in the weeds over literally a buck a month.

B

So I think that's the you know trying to find the right way to incentivize, but not.

B

Allowing it to to overwhelm from an administrative point of view and lose.

B

Some of the benefit of the whole model so and just uh before the customer wrote.

A

Is the the estimations coming from the gis work that we have already yeah? So we've been.

D

um Contracting for a few years now, with annual updates to our aerial photography and.

D

The impervious surface calculations are coming from. You know the most recent uh photography.

D

That we are getting for the city. Okay, so I mean that's kind of. Is that the same thing that says.

A

Like hey you're you're, your roof could generate this much solar like okay, so we could imagine.

A

That the technology to uh at least predict how much getting better and better each year, okay,.

L

um You talked a lot about equipment needs and going into the future and how that would be an.

L

Increased amount has any of these equipment needs been incorporated into the cip already.

L

Or is it being added in over the next few years or how is that working? We currently.

C

Have a brine machine program: that's the hundred thousand dollars you see so brian uh brian is a.

C

Way to pre-treat the roadways, so you don't have to put as much salt down every now and then you.

C

Might see that when you before a storm in the winter, you see those little lines on the road.

C

That's actually been that pre-treatment, so uh so we have uh looked to that so that that currently.

C

Is in the budget and it was identified already but again that cost would shift to a utility cost.

C

Versus just the the way it is in the the split cost at the moment, so there's another other. No.

L

Other sort of large equipment costs are going to be all of a sudden added to the cip. This year,.

L

For the future, oh, not not this year but again future years and as as bill has identified some.

C

Of the the further needs we're talking a lot, uh especially on the salt reduction plan. It's it's.

C

Equipment retrofits, so you know I don't have the exact number per vehicle, but it's like.

C

You know a five five thousand dollar upgrade to the salt distribution that that actually.

C

um You know the mechanism that puts salt on the road, but it also has equipment that does.

C

A better job of monitoring so that we can talk to our drivers and we can be more efficient with.

C

You know knowing where the salt's going down, and you know how much it's costing and improving it.

C

That way, great thanks, remember if I can just add there may be pieces. Brian machine is one.

M

Of them, brian, not brian, that would be found in the rolling stock. Okay part of the budget.

A

uh Council tabor uh three three questions: around peas around the tiers and.

N

And I guess I'll first off having watched the storm water costs grow over the past.

N

Three or four years and seeing that have to be shouldered and directly in.

N

Property tax increases and sewer fee increases I've just councilor denton and I have been on.

N

The fee committee and we dug into this a year or two years a year ago, it's it's so clear to me that.

N

The the fee structure, we need that to allocate the costs where they really are, which is the.

N

Commercial, you know, as as sewer rates and and property tax rates got a little nick from these.

N

Additional storm water costs, we residential taxpayers, were essentially subsidizing. Walmart.

N

Parking lots which inundate our sewer system with large amounts of storm water.

N

So I think when we do the tiers, though I like the smallest tier for the it just seems to me that.

N

Somebody who keeps their environmental footprint really small should get rewarded for that.

N

And I think that extra break makes a difference. um I share the concern about peas,.

N

We do have a storm water, sewer system. There right I mean, and it goes through the sewer plant that we.

N

Fund correct, there are uh peter or someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe.

B

All the pipes out there are separated so there's a separate storm drain system right and then there's.

B

Our sewer system out there and the two do not meet okay, so stormwater is completely separate. There.

N

Good to know, but we still maintain, we may we maintain the the within the right-of-way.

B

So it's narrow and we've been careful about that delineation right, um but I think it's definitely.

B

Something I'm hearing that we need to talk about further, so we'll put that on the list right.

N

um And you know, I think the the big move that will benefit us as a city is is, with these large.

N

Commercial properties um there's tremendous incentive to control the stormwater runoff.

N

um Either by permeable pavement in the parking, lots or swales or ponds.

N

And I can't imagine somebody would build a new uh strip, mall store or plaza without.

N

Really paying attention to this, which we we don't have the incentive to do that now.

B

I will say we did update our stormwater regulations.

B

um Two years year ago, 21 21, so they are quite tight for the properties that are coming.

B

Forward for redevelopment, so one of the things we've kind of talked about is: do you just give.

B

A credit for someone who goes above and beyond the current, fairly restricted storm water rules.

B

That we've since put in to try and grab that extra bit, but they did get tightened up pretty.

B

Significantly, as I recall bill from that draft, any disturbance more than fifteen thousand square feet.

E

Required additional treatment, yeah and the last question is: is uh the million dollars a.

N

Year that you're estimating for capital uh give us a peek into what you see that paying for.

C

What kind of capital costs retrofits to existing uh properties? You know city property, our first.

C

First well, we just did a project out back of public works. We have a very large storm water.

C

Retention ponds out there with treatment, so it would be that but then also build into all.

C

The roadway work that we're doing when we did sagamore we put poorest pavement on the side.

C

There so we've put salt, I mean sand filters in we put tree box filters, so these would be things.

C

That again, as jamie pointed out, what 45 or or so of these already put in that you know the city.

C

Is funded granted through other mechanisms as as well as storm water, but that that is really what's.

C

Envisioned we're we're still pro forma, quite a bit of this, so there's going to be, I think, further.

C

Discussion on on where the priorities are on that, but that's that's what we envisioned on that.

C

Excuse me mayor if I, if I could, I would add an additional um you know to counselor moreau's.

C

Question on equipment, I was in my head, real quick. I was thinking new equipment. We do have.

C

Existing equipment out in the road we've got our vector trucks. We have the sweepers.

C

And those as they come to replacement, so we do schedule those for replacement so.

C

I would add that to the answer on that I was in my head. It was like oh new stuff, so.

A

I think I mean the I wouldn't speak for all the council, but um council tabor and um you know.

A

I think the folks at home want to make sure that we're getting an additional revenue.

A

Source uh for the city of portsmouth to tackle won the equity around it currently, but two.

A

The proposed needs in the future. We don't want to make sure that you know we want to bring the.

A

Same uh scrutiny to budget items as we would always bring to those you know forgetting the.

A

Fact that this cost is going to be borne by other other parts and potentially other property owners.

A

Commercial versus residential just making sure that we're still bringing the same due diligence.

A

To all of the the costs and understand this pro forma and understand that regulations increase.

A

uh You know as they as they will, but to make sure that we're continuing to bring that and.

A

Not looking at this as any sort of windfall which it is not, it is simply a reallocation of.

A

Costs uh to to to do the work that is necessary as a city to manage our stormwater effectively.

A

Councilor bagley now we do have public comment after this I'll I'll be quick, your honor! Thank you.

J

um So from from the counselors that have spoke about it, it seems like option one, the three tiers.

J

um Seems to have the most support so far, which is uh you know the smaller, your your property.

J

Is the less you're going to pay? Now I do have a question when you get above uh say a certain.

J

Amount of square footage that would more or less shift you from residential to commercial with.

J

Our water use, I believe, after six units, you now pay a higher price per unit. That's it.

C

No, the average is, is five: it's ten, the bit 10 10 units per month. Okay! So so I guess my point is.

J

Is it possible so we're looking at uh 2.7 cents per unit? Could we have? uh Is it possible to have.

J

It if you use more than you know from zero to five thousand units, it's 2.7 cents, but from 5 000 units.

J

To infinity it's four cents, is it possible to have escalator to different tiers or increasing.

C

um Yeah, so as soon as the david question again, I don't know, I think yeah I'd be happy to to jump in.

F

On that one, um we really can't charge a different. The only way we've seen communities differentiate.

F

um The fee per square foot would be if you're, um if you're like a gas station or something.

F

Like that, that has a higher impact to the system in terms of the constituents that would run off.

F

So, generally, you want to keep the same fee, but what you could do- and we talked about.

F

This preliminarily, with with city staff, as you could have three tiers, which stop at a certain.

F

Point and say well once you're over 8 000 square feet of impervious or ten thousand square feet of.

F

Impervious, even if you're, a single family, home you're now measured so that's kind of a common.

F

Approach because that that third tier is pretty wide in terms of the the distribution between.

F

You know the cutoff and the end point, and so that would be one way to um tackle that issue so that.

F

You just put everybody in tears: unless you're, you know exceeding a certain size, if that makes sense,.

F

I think that answers my question, but I would like us to investigate legally in the state.

J

Of new hampshire is, if say, you had more than I'm going to say 5000, but the number could be flexible.

J

Maybe it's 10 000. that we would charge uh 133 of the rate that we charge from zero to five thousand.

J

So that you have more incent the bigger. What I'm trying to create here is that, if you have.

J

A huge parking lot, that's already existing, say walmart, for example, you have even more.

J

Incentive to figure out how to mitigate your stormwater runoff from a financial perspective.

F

That's one we'll have to dig into a little bit a little bit deeper.

F

Yeah, we can certainly investigate thanks david, any other questions from the council, and this is going.

A

To come back again to many times or not many times more than once, um and you know before we go to.

A

Public comment: thank you uh for this presentation. It's something that I think makes a lot of sense.

A

uh Especially, uh given that it's a cost we incur and understanding how to most equitably.

A

Distribute that cost and the benefit you know us equally as a community. So thank you with that.

A

um We'll open a public comment: um do we have a timer three minutes for first round all right.

A

We can do the watch timer. That scares me each time it goes off, um but is there anybody that.

A

Would like to come up to the podium, just name residence and that's the fort smith folks go first.

O

Good evening esther kennedy 41 pickering ave as someone who has been following stormwater.

O

Runoff, since my graduate school days and doing research projects on it,.

O

um I have always said that's. This is going to be one of our biggest concerns for the city.

O

At one point in one of my campaign speeches I said, there's three problems that the city's.

O

Gonna have to deal with, and it's water, water and water and now we're finally getting to storm water.

O

I guess uh my first thing is: I wanna stress the importance of buffer zone and storm water.

O

And I would ask to research people to give their input on that.

O

um I also think that we should look at the reduction that we're going to see.

O

In our wastewater finances, I didn't hear that today I heard that we're going to move things.

O

Over but I'm assuming, if we're going to move things over we're going to have a reduction.

O

In what I have to pay as a citizen for waste water, so I guess I'd like to really see that.

O

I'm also a little perplexed I actually spent yesterday traveling, so I had some time to go.

O

On the federal website and look at storm water- and I'm hoping some of you have too.

O

And some of the recommendations for communities and and whatnot and I'm a little perplexed.

O

At the fact that one of the things is requirement of treatment for storm water.

O

Yet we've spent millions and millions and millions of dollars over the years separating storm water.

O

So I guess: where does that fall into all this? I know we separated for a reason, but if we're.

O

Eventually, going to be required as long-term goal to clean it or show that we've taken some.

O

Of the particles that we now have in our environment, out of it and we're looking.

O

We're gonna have to look at runoff places and measurement of nitrogen and all those things.

O

And other chemicals um I'm really perplexed about the millions and millions of dollars we spent.

O

On separation, if, ultimately, we're going to have to make sure that our storm water is to a level.

O

And a purification of that that we can dump back into an ocean being an ocean community.

O

And what I did learn is in different areas of um you know: separation in different areas.

O

Of storm water, depending on where you are, is very different process. A very different.

O

Ways of getting it done and very different permits so um again, I'm perplexed being an.

O

Ocean community and given where much of our runoff is going. What does that look like.

O

I do agree that each I'm glad to see that residents I'll speak again. Thank you. Esther.

A

Any other first time, speakers.

P

Ladies and gentlemen, paige trace 27 hancock street members of the city council, mr mayor.

P

It's not complex. It is very disgusting to me, though, that you are considering charging residents.

P

For storm water coming off of their roofs, and yet you still dump hundreds of thousands of gallons.

P

Of waste combined with storm water into a dead estuary, that's dead because of that combined waste.

P

Going into it and now you're going to charge us as residents while you as the city continue.

P

To dump into north mill pond that's wrong. Thank you. Thank you, paige any other, first time, speakers.

Q

Good evening peter huda, 280 south street, I too have done some research over the weekend.

Q

So I only went back seven years to figure out how much we have put into our storm water.

Q

Cost centers in our budgets and it was about 2.8 million, so that has been funded by this taxpayers.

Q

Of portsmouth for the last at least seven years, if this went into effect in 2014, the taxpayers.

Q

Had been funded funding this, so I think this is a great idea to establish a revenue center to pay.

Q

For this, my big question here is: is this going to be the only place we are paying for this as.

Q

Taxpayers, because, in order to do that, in order to you make this a revenue center, you need to move.

Q

All the expenses related to the city staff and all the departments over to this and fund it to.

Q

Be pure and to have us only paying once otherwise, it looks like we're going to be double dipping on.

Q

The taxpayers again to pay for this. Thank you. Thank you, peter any other, first-time speakers.

A

Any second time: oh that's fine, yep,.

A

Come on up melissa.

R

Good evening and thank you uh for uh taking my comments, I'm melissa, paley, I'm the great.

R

Bay, piscataqua water keeper, with conservation law foundation, it was an excellent presentation.

R

Suzanne, I commend you and the team for pulling this together to explore equitable ways to.

R

Allocate what we know are going to be increasing costs to manage both quantity and quality of water.

R

As we experience events like two and a half inches of rain in a very short time, those are going to be.

R

Increasingly frequent events interspersed with long periods of drought and that's the kind of.

R

New new normal that we expect, I thought I'd just provide a super quick context on the role of.

R

Storm water in the water quality issues that we're experiencing in the great bay estuary as a whole.

R

um When we think about one particular pollutant that the the nitrogen pollution in the estuary.

R

Which is a primary concern about one-third of that load comes from our point sources, our 18.

R

Wastewater treatment facilities in the communities around the great bay estuary. That means two-thirds.

R

Are coming from non-point sources and storm water is a major contributor of all of that.

R

Non-Point source nitrogen load. So if you look at that consider now the two-thirds of the pie.

R

That's the nitrogen about two-thirds of that is what your you would be able to mitigate through.

R

This enhanced storm water management program that you're trying that you're financing or considering.

R

Financing mechanisms, for so that's all that stuff, that's running into the estuary, every.

R

Time it rains with nitrogen, not just nitrogen, but sediment and other pollutants as well, so by.

R

Really coming to a sustainable funding uh model for for stormwater you're, addressing not just the.

R

Nitrogen many of the pollution problems caused by nitrogen but other storm water pollutants.

R

Sediment being a principle one, so it's a really significant um decision that you're discussing.

R

And one that we're keenly interested in and- and I will say also that portsmouth was one of the.

R

Three signatories to a settlement agreement with conservation law foundation in 2021 that.

R

Enabled the total nitrogen general permit to go into effect and one of the components in that.

R

Settlement agreement was an agreement to explore sustainable funding mechanisms for storm water.

R

Management by december 2023, so that's exactly what you're doing here and um and it's it's really.

R

Excellent to see this very thorough and thoughtful deliberation going on, so thank you very much and I.

R

Look forward to following your your discussions. Thank you, musa, any other first time, speakers.

S

Dick bagley 213 pleasant street just a couple of observations and comments.

S

um I think the idea behind this is equitable payment and it certainly makes sense.

S

um I have I live on pleasant street right at the corner of junkins and.

S

We had a foot of water there because counselor the leaves clogged that drain all the time and.

S

There's no parked cars at that location. Speech levers never come, but that's beside the point.

S

um And the street sweepers have a good deal of difficulty, picking up that volume of leaves, it's.

S

Just a sweet speed sweeper, it picks up sand. Not much more sog leaves don't work, but my point here.

S

Is that we have a tremendous cso problem still in spite of our separation in the month of september,.

S

In your own report, we dumped combined sewage water of four million gallons into south milk. Pond did.

S

You hear what I said: four million gallons this happens continuously. Can you imagine what would.

S

Have happened if ian hit us instead of eastern canada, we have climate change, we are going to.

S

Get severe weather patterns you mentioned two and a half inches of rain. It's not unreasonable.

S

That we're going to see regularly four and six inches of rain and we're going to have csos.

S

Galore and it's pretty much been 10a and 10b, not the north mill pond. So all of that data is on your.

S

Website for the sewer department, I think the mayor rate, a good point. We charge in enterprise funds.

S

For the delivery of the water and the sewage in return- and we have rye newcastle in greenland in.

S

That system, so it isn't just a simple equation of if you have a stormwater fund, which is only.

S

For us- and it doesn't include peas, you're sort of need to look at the whole dynamics. What I heard is.

S

Well, maybe the sewer rates won't go up as fast, but so I didn't see an analysis of of of that. The last.

S

Quick point that I'd make it's kind of outrageous to the comments that councilor bagley made. If you.

S

Look at the history we came here 16 years ago and we live opposite south mill pond in the.

S

Sp the smell was outrageous. If you look at 10a and tv t 10b there's this little sign like this.

S

That was put there, probably in the mid-1800s, where we put in the system sewer system. It.

S

Says beware: there's sewer outlets going on here what is front of the middle school and the others.

S

Wanted further down near the junkins avenue, and it if you read your own regulations, there's no.

S

You can swim in south mill pond, but you can't swim if there's been an overflow for 48 hours,.

S

It seems to me that the recognition of what's going into south mill pond and north mill pond.

S

Should be more prominent than this little 6x6 sign is below you, we're dumping raw sewage into.

S

The ponds, so I I that's a little bit apart from why you're here tonight, I appreciate the concept.

S

Of what you're trying to do- and it makes all the sense in the world and the the only other thing.

S

Is we live, you know equine and several life is. If you talk to the conservation commission, this idea.

S

Of having pools of water everywhere in the city is not a good idea for mosquitoes. You also. We have a.

S

Serious rat problem, I hate to say it publicly, but we have a serious rat problem in our city.

S

And it sort of isn't, you have to really think through the whole. I think, as counselor dan said,.

S

You got to think through the whole conservation approach here, it's not just as simple as cost.

S

Thank you very much. Thank you, dick any other, first-time speakers. Many second time speakers.

P

Ladies and gentlemen, I want to thank melissa paley for her comments and mr bagley.

P

They were truly wonderful and they're very sincere.

P

South mill pond something that I neglected to clarify is an estuary. It's not just a pond.

P

And so when I spoke earlier about hundreds of thousands of gallons of raw sewage, it wasn't. I.

P

Was being generous because god knows and they're correct how many millions of gallons go into south.

P

Mill pond and I would be the first person to pay for storm water, but I'm asking please take care of.

P

A before you move to b and then to c, and when I was sitting in your spots, the first thing I.

P

Did was move up islington street and it wasn't just to give better sidewalks. It was to finish.

P

The storm water and sewer separation, because one of the first things I learned from mr desmaris.

P

And mr rice is that the best practice is to have the sewage go for as long a period of.

P

Time in the pipes as it possibly can, so what was the first thing that happened when we were.

P

No longer counselors, you took off islington street and moved it further out. Instead of.

P

Taking care of it as it should have been with 100 year old pipes, so I'm asking you now please.

P

Look at everything else. There is because, as wonderful as separating storm water is, I don't.

P

Think it's right that you should charge us by the roof size when an estuary is dead. South mill pond.

P

Is dead and you're going to do with a lot of infiltration and development on north mill? Pond.

P

You're going to run the risk of doing that. Also, so, please think before you start pushing storm.

P

Water and make sure you've got everything done properly and I thank you all and I know it's a.

P

Long night and I'm sorry, but it's important, thank you. Thank you, paige any other second time. Speakers.

O

Esther kennedy 41 pickerina second time speaker, um I'd like to continue on with.

O

Where I was going, my ultimate concern is also peace. There's a lot of estuaries there.

O

um And when we were fighting the wastewater treatment plant being on the end of pierce island.

O

And we were requesting to move up to peas. One of the reasons was so that we could handle.

O

Everything up there and do it appropriately. um You know I. I realized that there's an a.

O

Major agreement, but we still as a city of a lot of financial responsibility for peace.

O

So I'm glad the counselor and the mayor asked about peas. I was going to ask myself about peas,.

O

I really can't wait to hear the answer to that. The other thing we know about peas is there's a.

O

Lot of imperious area out there and my question is: what's part of the airport and what's part.

O

Not in the airport segment, and I would really like to know what is the coverage of those areas.

O

As you know, we have more responsibility for non-airport areas. My last comment is jones. Ave.

O

We know there isn't same thing as coakley is over in jones ave and we have heard for years from.

O

People concerned with runoff concerned with storm water there and in that really precious estuary.

O

And I guess I want to know where the studies are on that particular area.

O

And what is happening over in jones, ave um and and with storm water runoff, in particular over our.

O

Not super fun site but could be super fun site, as what I've told was told by the epa at one point.

O

I think this is a serious business and I know I agree. I am the number one recipient of south.

O

Mill pond crap, I smell it. I know I'm right there folks, so I know it's a problem. I get.

O

All the text from the city when we have storm major rain, we have some problems.

O

But I think these are kind of combined. um I think it's we have to work on all water. We have to think.

O

About our drinking water, so we can, we can have people drink. We have to think about our waste.

O

Water, because we're not doing a good job there, and now we have to really focus on our storm water.

O

And so my last comment is: what's the education, what are you going to do because there's some.

O

Toolkits on the federal website, but what are you going to do to educate the population.

O

About how they can uh make their properties more able to comprehend and deal with storm water.

O

I personally have chosen not to put down any kind of previous payment. I have stones all.

O

Over the place, so all I have to really do is worry about my roof and my barn.

O

And I made that a conscious decision, because I knew this.

O

What about all the other people that are doing new builds? When are you going to? Let them know.

O

When are you going to give them the information this has been around for since 2014. 2004? I think.

O

Was actually what the federal website said when I started first started doing major research on it.

O

When are you going to, let people know so they don't keep building buildings that are wrong.

O

When are you going to inform your land use boards and educate them.

O

Those are the questions you should be asking tonight, so they don't keep moving forward. We're.

O

Going to have to fix what's already been built, but how do we take care of it, so it doesn't keep.

O

Moving forward and still become a problem and ultimate become a financial burden on whoever.

O

Might do that extra unit on their house or the extra barn? Thank you. Thank you. Esther.

A

With that um we'll move to adjourn the meeting, thank you all for coming out a lot to digest.

A

And hopefully, uh move forward on? Do we have next steps on this suzanne? Is it coming up.

A

Before the council, I think what we'll do is uh staff will take what they heard tonight.

B

Some of the outstanding questions and we're going to continue to crunch numbers and look.

B

At some other options and then we'll I'm sure, probably set up another work session where we.

B

Can begin to figure out the next steps to to take it great. Thank you. Everyone good night, portsmouth.