City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Conservation Commission, 13 Jul 2022

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7.13.2022 Conservation Commission

A

So if you only have four, I think I don't know sam's got five sorry do we have corman.

B

Yeah, we do, you have a corbin here and you have another. So you have five. So you don't.

B

Okay, good yep welcome everybody to the july 13 2022 regular meeting with the.

B

Conservation commission, first order of business is approval of the june 8 2022.

B

Minutes anybody want to make the most yes allison um I'll, make a motion to accept the minutes, except.

C

I had a question so in the section about the um the master and restaurants inc owner the statement.

C

Was made that the existing wetland buffer setback is about one foot from the back edge.

C

Of the existing pavement and I thought that that the actual edge of wet was about one foot from the.

C

Back pavement is that not correct which question which this is the first application on the.

C

Agenda from last week last month is that the common man 255 yeah, no two, two five five left yet.

A

And the question was what, if they, uh it says that the existing wetland buffer setback is one foot.

C

From the back edge of the existing pavement, but that's not true the wetland yeah. No, the wetland.

C

Yes yeah, so that needs to be up. That's on page two uh at the uh about the fifth line down from the.

C

Top fourth line great yeah. Thank you any others. No, I think. That's it. Anybody else. Samantha, okay,.

B

If you, I don't see her on your thing. So, oh sorry,.

A

All said: samantha anybody yeah. Can you give you a thumbs up? Second up, please.

D

um Do you have something else.

E

um Well, I don't last paragraph on page four and it's something that I said so that it caught my.

E

Eye, even more so no outstanding copyright editing. um This can tell question if the deck.

E

On the corner was new and questioned if it would be lit, was I thought I was probably talking about.

E

The little round thing you mean the pattern: yeah yeah, the patio, but does anybody I mean if it's I.

E

Don't care, but you want to change deck to patio. I I don't know. Does anybody have a better memory.

E

I kind of do remember that you said patio, okay, that's what I thought right, because.

E

I was concerned that they'd be there'd, be more light at the um you know, at the edge of the water.

E

Okay, so we'll change deck to patio. Okay, anything else seconded by.

B

Jessica, thank you. I'm gonna do a roll call vote. So all those in favor, sam, yes, jessica, yes and.

B

Yes and allison: yes, the chair votes, yes, second item on the agenda: is the wetlands conditional.

B

Use permit old business 70 pleasant point drive. Is anybody here to speak to that.

F

Good afternoon, madam chair members of the commission, corey caldwell of tf moran.

F

And just a point of question, I noticed we were uh first and last on the agenda and is it okay.

F

To take those two together, we're going to yeah, we've got to just make a motion after you finish,.

B

The first one to move the other one up, but that was our plan yeah. Okay, great thank you.

F

uh Joining me today is rebecca rowe of guitar llc, the owner. We have ben ozier of ozir building.

F

Company eric burke, our landscape, architect with terrain planning and design and joshua buckes with.

F

Distefano magel, architects and jason cook, a project engineer with t.f moran.

F

uh Peter on our thumb, drive there's a bunch of drawings. Could you bring up the.

F

Color drawing please, oh, you don't want the sideshow: okay, not the slideshow, but.

F

Prior to that, slideshow there's some drawings and one of them is colored.

F

And it would be nice to reference that if we could bring that up, we presented this project last month.

F

You may recall at the june 8th conservation commission meeting site plan color. Yes,.

F

Since this meeting last month, we've submitted revised plans to address this commission's.

F

Concerns we've had a joint site, walk with the planning board, and this commission we've had a.

F

Sight walk and meeting with def staff and we've submitted a standard, dredge and phil.

F

Wetlands permit application for title buffer zone impact and the proposed dock.

F

During last month's meeting, this commission recommended several improvements. First, the.

F

Use of eco-grass and slow release fertilizer. This change is shown on the landscaping plant.

F

In the lower right-hand corner of that landscaping plan, there's a note.

F

And that note reads that install eco lawn grass, seed by wildflower farm or approved equal.

F

And slow release fertilizer on all lawn areas within 50 foot of the reference line.

F

And that's sheet l-01 for the landscaping plan, something something's wrong with it.

A

It won't it won't, let me copy it on the desktop and it won't open.

A

Not finding it, oh, I find it, but when I try to open it, it doesn't open and.

A

When I try to copy the desktop it says they can't find it, but it's, but it's right here.

F

There may be another plan in there that we could reference as well. If that one won't open. Maybe it's too large.

F

Well, peter's, looking for that, the second comment that this commission issued last month was to.

F

Reference nofa standards on the plan, and this is done in the same note on that landscaping plan.

F

The last half of that note again in the lower right-hand corner reads that nofa standards.

F

For organic land care, six edition, 2017 or most recent version shall be followed during lawn care.

F

Asked us to provide less lawn, more trees and plantings in the buffer.

F

This change has been accomplished and we've submitted a revised landscaping plan.

F

Additional plantings have been shown in the north west and southwest portions of the site.

F

As well as additional plantings surrounding the permeable permeable patio, these plantings result.

F

In less lawn and over what exists today and less lawn than what was presented last month,.

F

Fourth, we were asked to move the small sitting. Patio further away from the water may recall this.

F

Is that round feature that shows on the plan that was approximately 18 feet from the water.

F

This was at the top of the slope and then the patio behind it contained a retaining wall and.

F

The edge of that retaining wall was approximately 15 feet from mean high water. Patio has been moved.

F

Five feet to the north: it's now 23 feet away from the mean high water and we removed the retaining.

F

Wall on the back and replaced that retaining wall with a bunch of plantings, this colored plan that.

F

Up there doesn't show the plantings because those are shown on the landscape plan. But if you refer.

F

To the landscape plan, you can see the retaining wall behind the patio removed and the the addition.

F

Of plantings behind that patio to provide more buffer between the patio and the resource.

F

And lastly, we've asked us to show mulch rings around the oak trees. These are the two large red.

F

Oak trees that we observed during our sight walk the existing mulch bed around. These two trees will.

F

Remain intact, the outline of these mulch beds is shown on the landscape plan and lastly, during our.

F

Site walk. It was asked that if we could quantify the changes to the 50 and the 100 foot buffer.

F

And the house impact changes, if you will to the 50 and 100 foot buffer and we've done that and.

F

You may recall we we pointed out at the sidewalk that the house is moving back.

F

Approximately 20 feet and much of the house currently.

F

Is within that 50-foot buffer there's about 313 square feet of house in the 50-foot buffer.

F

That is being reduced down to zero. There is no house impact in the 50-foot buffer currently.

F

Between the 50 and 100 foot buffer, there is uh it's about 1200 square feet of.

F

Impact and that, as a result of moving the house further away from the water.

F

Is being increased by about eight between eight and 900 square feet to 2100 square feet of impact.

F

So, although house impact is increased in the 50 to 100 foot buffer, it's eliminated.

F

In the zero to fifty foot buffer overall impact from the site remains the same.

F

We're considering lawn area impact as well as grading, so what impact you have.

F

In that hundred foot buffer now remains the same as it will post construction.

F

In addition to revising our plan set to reflect these changes as part of the des.

F

Wetlands permit application we've submitted seven additional plans.

F

And I I won't go into those till we, I think till we formally allow that, but that portion.

F

Concludes the conditional use permit and the changes we've made as a result of the site walk.

F

In our last meeting, if, if okay, I will proceed with the with the wetlands permit application.

B

I think we're good you wanted to proceed with it now. Is that what you said yeah we should vote.

B

On the first one, I think okay at this point, all right um at least discuss it sure. That's.

F

All right myself, my team, happy to address any questions. Okay, any questions! Yes, I'm not! Maybe.

G

This is part of the wetlands application, but in this packet you talk a lot about the fill treks.

G

That you're talking about doing on the shoreline, do you know what type of mesh you're going to be.

G

Using I know that they have different options, some are organic, but they do have a polypropylene and.

G

A polyethylene one, and that would be concerning to me if there's a bunch of plastic mesh sitting.

G

Right there in the river's edge yeah, I believe that's addressed on our sediment and erosion.

F

Control plants- and it does reference organic, fill, okay, and that would include the mesh from.

G

That particular product, that's a good question. Does it include the mesh? I don't remember, reading.

F

That I just remember seeing organic fill, there's no plastic. um We typically spec the organic mesh.

F

The coconut fibers or right yeah, that's that's our typical reference on a erosion sediment.

F

Control plan without reading every note I can't say directly, but I'm I'm that's. I was.

G

Trying to see if I could find it too, but there's a lot of words on there, there's a lot of stuff.

D

Yeah anymore, that was my yeah.

C

um So I had a I had one um just sort of suggestion and then a question well actually they're both.

C

Questions but um I note that you're you're going to fold down burlap and cages around.

C

The root balls and I have found personally that it can really restrict the tree growth.

C

And I would like to see those removed if possible, rather than just tucking them.

C

And then the second thing was, I was questioning how well the live.

C

Staking is going to work given the drought situation that we're having yeah yeah. I think.

F

Eric our landscape, architect, referencing his planet, ask him to address that question.

H

uh I'll address the second one: first, um the the live staking is based on timing of installation.

H

And you know all the plant materials gonna need to be watered during establishment. So just like.

H

The rest of the landscape installation around the house and closer to the driveway. It's going to.

H

You know need to be watered and that'll be a part of our maintenance program that we write for the.

H

Project uh and then you brought up a highly contested issue in the horticulture industry.

H

We typically recommend two-thirds of the the basket and burlap be removed, because we've seen.

H

More damage to the root ball during the process of removal.

H

As well as it makes it easier to get the plant material in place, um and- and so I would counter.

H

That I have not seen if done removed properly, I have not seen an adverse condition if a portion of.

H

The basket is left on, I have and if you just roll the root ball, you can pull it out, but that's okay.

C

Okay, thank you any other questions. I have a question, but it's a house not landscaping.

E

Okay, so I don't know if you guys want to swap um uh during the site, walk you guys didn't know.

E

Where the engineer there didn't know the um the pitch of the roof and how high the stories are.

E

um For each the first and second story, um are they eight foot ceilings? Nine foot, ten foot, seven.

E

um And what kind of uh roof will be there and what pitch 12 12 10 we'll have josh our.

F

Architect address that question: did you see these plans yeah that doesn't give me the.

E

Numbers that I wanted, though okay, but thank you. I did go through those um just a quick. You know.

A

I apologize I can. I can pop out and pull this up and grab the information we didn't prepare that we.

I

Weren't aware that conservation commission was looking at that uh for the first time.

I

We know that we design to the the site requirements, but I'd have to.

I

Step out for a quick minute and grab that information for you, if you like, um it's all right.

E

I don't know if it's a deal breaker. I was just curious as to if that had been settled so okay.

B

I had a question for corey again um on the I'm sorry about this. I can't remember where the.

B

Stairs I thought the stairs going down to the water were going to be taken out. No and okay. We've.

F

Completed a little research on that and found just yesterday that the stairs received a variance.

F

Conservation, commission and planning board approval in 2008.. They replaced what was a stone.

F

Dirt walkway path going down, but they are put in pursuant to valid permits. So it's our intent to.

F

To have them remain, okay, so was the original plan to take them out for us, the previous one? No, no, no.

F

They were never proposed to be removed. Okay, um my my other question on this is uh on the plantings.

B

I think well, I had the same question that just had about the filtrex grow socks and what it.

B

Is because it says biodegradable um and then there's also, I think, photo degradable or whatever.

B

So but that definitely doesn't tell you whether or not there's plastic in there or not.

B

um So that's as it seems do you have a note there, barbara that you're reading that I can. um I went.

B

Online, oh, I was just you had to if it was a note from my plan in front of you that you were reading.

D

From that talked about the biodegradable silt sock, because I know we address it on our on our.

F

Erosion control plan, the problem is most of that plan is words and notes, and it might take.

F

It might take a while to find it, but we typically spec okay, so just just.

B

Always spec biodegradable silk sock, not the plastic clarification. I think. There's two sock.

H

Moves in play here, I think, there's the grow socks which will be used for life staking as needed.

H

Those are certainly biodegradable, then I think there's the erosion control.

H

Methods right, uh which I need to speak into the microphone a little bit more.

A

Sorry yeah, which uh uh mr roger just uh informed us that uh his company uses the biodegradable.

H

As a part of their site work operations on every project, so both socks will be biodegradable.

B

Okay, that's great so as follow-up, maybe a little bit to that was one of the questions or one of.

B

The conditions, maybe that the staff had put in here the city had put in there referencing.

B

How much information you have about the living shoreline? Because there is a lot of information in.

B

There, but we don't know exactly what you're going to do. I don't think yeah, so we're not proposing a.

F

New living shoreline as part of this application, we visited that. I visited that about three three.

F

Or four years ago, on this site with the previous owner, who wanted to do a living shoreline.

F

Had a brief meeting out there with peter and we determined that the site, because of its.

F

Sitting on ledge because of its armor by the shore that it wasn't a very good candidate for.

F

Living shoreline, however, we are planning to enhance the buffer through a number of.

F

Native plantings, as well as invasive species management, so the shoreline the zero to.

F

25-Foot buffer would be significantly enhanced because of step one we would go in. Remove those.

F

Invasive species and then on the edge, as you can see, from the landscaping plant on the top edge.

F

Once you come up the slope, there are a lot more plantings and a less lawn post construction than.

F

What exists today, pre-construction, so those were our proposed improvements to the to the buffer.

F

um It will be living in the sense that it's all vegetated from zero to 20 feet almost 25 feet.

F

But we're not proposing to change that slope. um It's just going to be natural. I guess it's living.

F

In a sense, but it's going to be what's there for plantings, coupled with the new plantings minus.

F

A lot of the invasive species and we did submit an invasive species management plan. I believe, and the.

F

Landscaping plan demonstrates the the plantings that are going into the buffer. Okay. Is that a.

B

Dressier, I can speak to that. If you want yeah, I mean I think that I appreciate what corey had to.

A

Say and I I don't think we were looking for a new living shoreline project out there. I don't. I agree.

A

I don't think it's the perfect candidate for that, but we just wanted to make sure that people were.

A

Aware of that section in the ordinance and that we address it when we have an opportunity- and I do.

A

Think that the restoration plantings are proposing kind of go towards that, so, okay yeah, all the all.

E

The pages in the document that were submitted were like about it, and I was sort of like.

E

This doesn't seem germane to the project, so I was kind of so thank you for asking.

E

That question, because it is a section in our ordinance to in in a shoreline situation, to do.

A

Living shoreline, where, where appropriate, just what they're doing, I think is appropriate yeah.

J

In terms of the like invasive species, removals wondering, if you have any sense of like the.

J

Percentage of cover there, that is composed of invasive species, like what kind of removal.

J

Extent are you doing sure eric? Can you address it? So they're uh they're dabbled along the.

H

Entirety of the of the shore front, but it's not a uh it's, certainly not an overgrown invasive.

H

um Situation and that's why it's sort of more a spot in check and not a complete.

H

You know come in and dig everything out and and then replant it. So the idea is to let.

H

Some of the native stuff: that's there now uh kind of get promoted uh once it's losing the.

H

Competition with the invasives and then where we can add in more native material that will be.

H

More successful there and the reason for the grow, socks and more towards that living shoreline is.

H

In zones where we don't have enough depth for soil coverage because of ledge or steepness.

H

Of slope not wanting to just disrupt more soil than we need to that's. Where we're providing a.

H

Medium for for plant material growth with the grow socks right and specifically just the.

J

Like I noticed, there was like some woody stuff like sumac and some smaller oaks.

J

Are those staying I mean? Sometimes people see those as kind of weedy.

J

Situations, if you're concerned about like their growth and the view like, are you going to leave.

J

Those two plants, in particular the staghorn sumac, is, is planned to be left at this point and what is.

H

What was the second, I thought there were some oaks as well: some young oaks yeah, I mean yeah.

H

You know those two huge oaks aren't gonna, be there forever so perpetuating something.

H

uh That will eventually take uh place makes a lot of sense nice. So it sounds like a real light.

J

Touch with the invasive, that's the plan, yeah more surgical than uh you know, a big backhoe in there.

E

Yeah yeah um the removal- and maybe it's somewhere in here, and I apologize if it is.

E

um Are you going to weed it or put dig it up as opposed to using any kind of chemicals, so a.

H

Majority of the stuff- that's there now is smaller than one inch, so I feel confident that it can be.

H

Pulled successfully without a lot of disruption, there may be a few things um that are once they.

H

Get into it that are larger than that, and that would we, what we have recommended is a cut and.

H

Dab method for those with, but that is a very small percentage of the what's there uh and then again.

H

Even a smaller percentage of the entirety of the short front, okay, thank you thanks. Then, that's.

B

Why you're up here too, we had another question from the city about one year: monitoring two-year.

B

Really looking at two-year and eighty percent yep survival yeah, so so we do that uh as a part.

H

Of our our maintenance program or for the project and and we'll submit reports as needed to address.

H

Any of those concerns- okay, so that'll be changed to that and then is there a sort of a opportunity.

B

For this to be a maintenance plan to be put into like the deed or whatever, for follow-up for.

H

Yeah I mean, I think some of you know the um the owners certainly want to be as good as stewards.

H

As possible for the property, so I think um you know the stuff will be maintained in perpetuity.

H

So right, yeah and the same with the rain garden, especially yes, that's always a huge issue. Yeah.

H

Okay and des has requirements as a part of their approvals too, for for some of those upkeeps so.

B

Okay, great anything else, nothing from samantha, nothing from samantha.

A

That I see no hand raised. Okay, any uh no other questions. um Anybody want to make a motion.

B

I hate sitting up here. Yes, I make a motion that we recommend approval of the conditional.

C

Use permit for 70 pleasant point drive. Are we doing any discussion stipulation.

J

We're going right to voting, I'm sorry to interrupt uh we'll, have emotions and then the discussion.

G

Okay, thank you for clarifying yeah. I will second that with can we put a condition on there just to.

G

Make sure that the uh grow socks or are an organic biodegradable material and not any plastic based.

G

Product that sound good, allison, yes, okay, alison, says yes seconded with one condition: discussion.

G

This is not necessarily directed towards them, but just because we are recently out there, I would.

G

Love in the future, if and I don't know how this works, but if we could start to talk about.

G

um Construction, waste and reuse just having the privilege to go to that site.

G

There's that beautiful little shed that they're gonna remove, but I'm sure someone.

G

Would love you know the gutters look like they needed to be clean, but we're in shape so.

G

It's sad to think that all that stuff is just gonna be, and maybe it's not. I don't know your.

G

Intention but I actually talked to the contractor about reutilization of materials that were still.

C

In good shape- and he said that they do that routinely good. I'm glad to hear that, because.

G

I would just like that to be something on people's radar as we get projects in the.

G

Future that that's being thought of and considered, instead of just all that good stuff getting wasted.

G

So I'm glad to hear that you're already doing that. Thank you. Yeah really good point.

B

C

When did you actually, I do have a question just I'm kind of curious about people's.

J

Opinions about invasive removal in this particular situation, where it is going to cause a lot of bank.

J

Stabilization- and it's already, you know it's in a neighborhood right, it's a pretty developed area.

J

I'm just curious about kind of the pros and cons and how how the conservation commission.

J

Sort of views that and whether that's a requirement that you know yeah how to think.

J

About the pros and cons there well, I think that, as in the process of removing the invasive species,.

C

They could destabilize, and I think it it's at such a slope that.

C

You know it could erode very quickly, and so I think the stabilization for that site at any.

C

Rate is necessary, that's my my personal opinion, but do they need to remove invasives at all? I.

J

Guess is the question I think so because if you look at in like oriental bittersweet, the birds.

C

Eat the seeds and just drop it everywhere and if you cut it out, they don't have seeds to drop.

C

So I think that certainly there are some. It was nice to hear that he's not removing the sumac, but.

C

You know there are other things out there that are not good, so yeah and there's a little bit.

B

On that, with the living shoreline too, it's like a lot of the invasives, but even some of the larger.

B

Plants shade out uh plants that are going to stabilize you know like lower growth plants, so.

B

Mm-Hmm so there's like a sort of a catch-22: you know how do you, so it's a really good.

B

Question on how to handle that yeah, normal bittersweet will kill everything trees in.

E

Strangle every pros and cons and in the past sometimes we're like you know,.

B

And allison you sort of recommended this as like when they're like. Oh we're, gonna, take.

B

Out all the norway maple and it's sort of like okay, wait a minute. You know the larger trees.

J

So we can be nuanced in our recommendations. Yes yeah, and it sounds like in this case the consensus.

J

Is it's why it's kind of nice to know what they plan to do? You know, rather than just we're going.

B

To take out the invasive species, um on that note, I was hoping maybe that there'll be an opportunity.

B

For before and after pictures of this one, um you know there's, maybe an educational component that.

B

The homeowner would like to share with others later on, because it would be interesting to see.

B

How it does kind of come back when this is happening so.

C

How it works and looking at the staff note, do you think that we need to stipulate.

C

The 80 survival and year monitoring, because if we do, then that should be added to the application.

C

To the uh I think it should be nice, it's a nice, uh you know report back on it too. It gives us.

A

A sense of how the site's doing it gives us you know reminder that they did this work on.

A

This site for other sites to see when we see them in the future how they worked so okay.

A

I think it's a good centrally. You have to add a report back to us on it.

A

Basically, okay mission or staff, either one in terms of reporting back to amend.

B

The motion maybe amend the motion to add a second stipulation beyond the the organic biodegradable.

A

Socks right, so that was one uh stipulation and then the second one was that they're.

C

Be monitoring and maintaining a buffer plantings for uh at least eighty percent uh survival.

C

And uh report back to the uh the staff for the commission regarding um how things went.

B

Do you want to second that yeah, okay, great, thank you all right. Can you can I bring up one other.

J

Question just given that the site right has got so much grass so close to the water's edge. I.

J

Mean anything that gets put on that grass is going to wash right into the water and.

J

I know in the past we've recommended, you know the nofa standards. Is this something we can do again.

J

That's part of the plans, the nofa um eco grass, low um nitrogen fertilizer.

C

And our our regulations, don't allow herbicides or pesticides within the buffer and only slow.

A

Release, nitrogen or phosphate, so that's all. Thank you. Thank you so, but it's good to bring up yeah.

B

Yeah, fine people, okay, anything else, samantha's, good and so we're gonna go to vote all those in.

A

Oh, you wanna. Do a roll call, favorite yeah, yeah samantha, yes, jessica, yes, um lin, yes, abigail.

A

Yes, allison, yes, barbara, yes, motion passes, you guys are all set. Thank you. Thank you very much.

B

um I'll make a motion to uh move forward the uh standard, reg and phil application for 70 pleasant.

D

Yes, jessica, yes, lynn, yes, abigail allison! Yes, yes, I'm gonna, recuse myself. For this.

B

One so samantha's gonna take uh take the helm or whatever so go ahead. Samantha.

G

um Corey, did you have anything else to present for the uh standard, dredge and phil part? I do yes, okay,.

F

Yeah um peter, if you could bring up that slideshow, actually um there's a before we did that, there's a.

F

Submitted on there, there's like six or seven exhibits that we prepared as part of the wetlands.

F

Stretch and fill application and those are the plans entitled um at the lower right-hand corner.

F

Ex01 through ex07, which are on that um thumb drive, could we bring those plans up? Please uh ex01 dxo7.

A

I don't see that I see site renovation plan, stairs approval, updated existing conditions, landscape.

C

Yeah, it's in the lower uh right hand corner of it. It says I have ex04 through seven. I think.

C

Oh, no there's there's one yeah within the site renovation plans.

F

Folder, I believe it's site development plans. You got ex01, it's.

C

Page 156 of our packet again my apparent challenge with the.

A

Updated existing conditions plan I don't and which website development plans, site development plans.

A

Isn't in here, thank you, so are you talking about in the packet, then I can go there.

A

C

D

Whoops well he's looking for that uh briefly state that we we have submitted a standard.

F

Dredging phil wetlands permit application for this site. uh There are seven additional plans.

F

Contained in that application, and just going to briefly take you through those those seven.

F

Plans and then we've prepared a a quick slideshow of the wetlands permit application and which.

F

Gives an overview of this site there? They are peter. Thank you, yep. The first plan within that.

F

Wetlands permit application is entitled a wetlands classification map. This plan is required of des.

F

And it simply classifies as the different types of wetland adjacent to the property. There are four.

F

Different types of wetlands for four different classifications of wetlands here the description.

F

Of each type is located in the upper right hand corner you can see some there's some salt marsh.

F

That has a different classification than the water body and then based on what's growing and and the.

F

The um you know the quality of that wetland and the tidal flats there's four different.

F

Classifications of wetland, the second plan is a wetland impact plan that is shown as she ex02.

F

This plan quantifies total buffer zone impact. The orange area represents the permanent impact.

F

Total permanent impact is eleven thousand nine hundred and ninety three square feet.

F

The red hatched area represents temporary impact and that's about 3750 square feet.

F

All impacts whether temporary or permanent, with exception of the dock.

F

Are within previously developed uplands of the tidal buffer zone, the dock impact from.

F

Mean high water out to the end of the float represents about 886 square feet of impact.

F

The third sheet, labeled ex03, is a shoreland impact plan. This plan demonstrates those impacts beyond.

F

100 feet: 100 foot, tidal buffer zone, anything beyond this buffer and within 250 feet requires.

F

A separate shoreline permit impacts proposed within jurisdictional areas of the shoreline water.

F

Quality protection act are a small portion of the home. The driveway portion of the retaining wall.

F

Around the driveway and yard grading permanent shoreline impacts are about twelve hundred square.

F

Feet and temporary shoreline impacts are about thirty, six hundred and thirty three square feet.

F

Ex04 is a vulnerability assessment. This plan demonstrates the site's vulnerability.

F

To relative sea level rise and projected mean and mean higher high water, elevations.

F

The plan view on the left of this plan depicts the current location of the mean tide line.

F

The mean high water and the mean higher high water with reference to this site, the plan view.

F

On the right depicts the same three lines for the year: 2100.

F

Because the site's elevation is steep, it's elevated and it has banks adjacent to the resource.

F

The site has a very high degree of tolerance for flood risk and no action is required.

F

Sheets, 5, 6 and 7 are dock related plans sheet. 5 depicts the dock location with.

F

Reference to the site, the mean tied line, the mean high water and the mean higher high water.

F

This plant also provides the dimension of the pier the gangway and the float the right side.

F

Of this plan depicts the proposed dock in relationship to the existing and proposed.

F

Dock across the back channel of the river on lady isle, commission members may recall, I think it was.

F

Three, maybe four months ago, was before this commission permitting that dock on lady isle.

F

Which is just across the back channel so, on the right hand, inset, it shows the entire resource.

F

From bank to bank and its relationship to that dock, that was recently permitted a few months ago.

F

Sheet six provides the doc details cross section. It provides construction notes for the contractor.

F

Who will be, we believe, riverside and pickering marine and a profile depicting the dock with.

F

The mean tide line the mean high water and the mean high higher high water elevations below.

F

The elevations shown here are, as they exist today, where sheet seven depicts the dock, with reference.

F

To those three lines mean tied line, mean high water and mean higher high water, as projected.

F

For the year twenty one hundred uh don't wanna, go through the entire wetlands permit. However,.

F

We have prepared some slides that summarize the application.

F

If we could bring up those slides, please peter I'll. Take you briefly through those.

F

And that is this document.

C

Gangway will be taken off site to be stored.

C

uh Yeah, it has to come out um the dock and pure and gangway has to come out the.

F

Only thing that remains is the excuse me. The gangway and float has to come out the.

F

Only thing that remains is the pier, yes, that's correct, and it's going to be stored off-site.

C

uh I don't think there's room on site back it'll be stored, off-site yes, be stored office. Thank you.

F

Thank you if we could go to the first slide within that, it's an aerial image of the site that shows.

F

The red arrow represents the site. The purpose of this slide is to show the site the adjacent homes.

F

And the tidal water body, which is the back channel of the scatica river. If we go to the next slide, it.

F

Zooms in a little closer, it's an aerial image which shows a closer view of the property here.

F

You can see the property, the adjacent salt marsh that we witnessed on the site, walk.

F

And the rocky beach adjacent to the property. And if you remember that rocky beach and salt marsh.

F

Really is what gave us the location of this dock. We didn't want to impact that salt marsh.

F

We wanted to move it over with some buffer to the salt marsh, so that line that that dock is going.

F

Some 30 approximately 30 feet within that rocky beach area, to avoid impacts to the salt marsh.

F

The next slide shows an image of the site, a little closer and at low tide. This gives.

F

Us an idea of the extent of the mud flats adjacent to the property at low tide. You can't.

F

Quite walk across this back channel, but I've spent a lot of time in this back channel.

F

Topoing it for the work we did on the island and it's um there's just a there's. A small channel.

F

Right in the middle there, it's relatively very narrow at low tide next slide. Please.

F

Which shows the property from the right-of-way of pleasant point drive public right-of-way.

F

Provides the access and the next two slides show some pictures to help jog your memory from.

F

The sidewalk it's just demonstrating that the house patio dock are all within that 100-foot.

F

Tidal buffer zone, the next slide, please, as part of the des wetland application we're required to.

F

Screen the site for priority resource areas per the des wetland rules. If we could go to the next.

F

Slide this shows the 2017 eelgrass data. These are the beds of the eelgrass within the area.

F

The site is referenced by the red arrow and you can see the lime, green eelgrass beds and you.

F

Can see that the eelgrass beds are not close to this site? The next slide shows the eelgrass beds.

F

A little larger, which is encouraging, that means these beds are growing, but still our site has no.

F

Impact to these ill grass beds, nor will the dock that we're proposing have any impact.

F

Because they are quite a distance away, this site is: uh there is a data layer required by.

F

Des that requires us to look and determine the prevalence of shellfish. They are in the area.

F

However, next slide, please, you can see that this site or this water body is closed to shell fishing.

F

Although they're in this adjacent resource, there is no shell fishing.

F

Allowed in that back channel of the piscatica river, the next slide shows the salt marsh data.

F

This represents the salt marsh in the area, which was also observed at our sidewalk. You can see.

F

That thin band in front of the home, which expands quite a bit as we go eastward and the next slide.

F

Is a this: is the the unh slam model, those of you not familiar with the slam model? It's a.

F

It's a sea level affecting marshes model which was done by the university of new hampshire.

F

And this slide shows with 1.5 feet of sea level rise. There is no effect really on that salt.

F

Marsh to this site, the next slide shows the slam model with three feet of sea level rise and again.

F

Because of these steep banks going down, there is very little salt marsh migration proposed adjacent.

F

To this site there is salt marsh migration, they think with sea level rise on the other.

F

On the outskirts, but not adjacent to this site because of its steep spanx and higher elevation.

F

One thing I I'm not sure we noted previously but the property to the west and then just.

F

To the west of that there is a prime wetland and that prime wetland has a 100-foot buffer.

F

That 100-foot buffer does extend onto this site. However, the only thing we're proposing in it it's.

F

In the northwest corner, and the only thing we're proposing in it is some plantings and invasive.

F

Species management there is no impact other than plantings on the site within that 100-foot buffer.

F

The purpose of this slide was just to demonstrate. There is a. There is a prime wetland buffer. There.

F

But we are not we're not going into it other than plantings and invasive species management.

F

The next slide demonstrates the new hampshire, fish and game highest ranked habitat in new.

F

Hampshire, that's the pink area, while high ranking habitat is nearby in the adjacent.

F

Water body in salt marsh, it is not on the subject: property.

F

The next slide is, as part of as part of the wetlands application, we're required to do.

F

A coastal functional assessment- the next slide shows the results of that functional assessment.

F

This shows the adjacent wetland system is suited for a number of principal functions and values.

F

The principle and functions and values of that adjacent wetland is flood flow alteration.

F

Fish and shellfish habitat sediment intoxicant retention, nutrient removal, production, export.

F

Sediment shoreline stabilization wildlife, habitat endangered species, habitat.

F

And ecological integrity, the overall ecological integrity score, was 0.651.

F

Being the highest you can achieve so it's ecological integrity, it's um above average.

F

The next slide shows some conservation measures to ensure that the project will have no impact.

F

To the functions and values of that adjacent resource, these measures include the raising.

F

The height of the docking structure to allow more ambient light to reach the surface of the resource.

F

We're providing float stops on the bottom of the float to allow the float to rest.

F

On the mud, without impact we're removing the seasonal structures during the non-boating season,.

F

Construction will take place between november 15th to march 15th.

F

Adequate levels of erosion and sediment controls are shown on the plants and we're enhancing the.

F

Water from buffer and the prime wetland buffer with native vegetation and invasive species.

F

Management removal and we're incorporating storm water measurement measures. You may recall we're.

F

Proposing a rain garden on the north side and the rest of the downspouts are diverted below the.

F

Impervious patio, where it will infiltrate into the ground, there are two four-inch pvc pipes currently.

F

That capture roof runoff that derain directly to the wetland. As part of this proposal, we're.

F

Proposing to cap those not remove them due to impact, but cap them so roof runoff will no longer.

F

Be allowed to get through those pipes and it will be contained on site via the rain garden and the.

F

The drain line under the pervious patio, where it's allowed to infiltrate.

F

Next slide, please also required by des is a vulnerability assessment.

F

Which measures the site's risk or tolerance for rising sea levels.

F

If we could go to the next slide, utilizing the unh guidance document, this site has a very high.

F

Tolerance for flood risk, it's in flood zone x and the home will sit at elevation, 21.5.

F

The projected mean higher high water elevation for year. 2150 is 8.8.

F

So in year, 2150 this home will sit 12.7 feet above the projected mean higher high water elevation. The.

F

Next few slides just demonstrate the migration based on sea level rise. I just want you to note.

F

As we go through those slides, the very little change to this site, you can see more significant.

F

Changes to other, but if you see the creep of the blue and again that's because this site sits so.

F

High, it's steep banks, that's because that's why it does have a high tolerance to flooding and.

F

Very little impact to rising sea levels with this site. The next few slides are some dock.

F

Details, the pier the fixed, pier shown on the right you can see a set of stairs to that. That's leading.

F

From the top of the bank to the fixed, pier, the fixed, pier will be six by 72 feet in length.

F

And they'll be a four by thirty seasonal gangway, with a 10 by 40 seasonal float with float stops.

F

The next slide demonstrates the it's a kind of a cross section. If you will.

F

Showing the mean higher high water at year, 2100, that's projected to be at elevation, 7.

F

We're proposing this dock to be constructed around elevation, 10.

F

So in the year, 2100 we'll still have three feet of dock. Above the mean higher high water elevation.

F

And lastly, there's a slide that demonstrates the doc's proximity to the site, which shows the pure.

F

Gangway and flow, and then we have some on the next slide- is the des title. Dock.

F

Regulations so the des maximum length is 200 feet. Our dock is 100. Half of that.

F

We are allowed to go to 25 percent of waterway with that mean low water. In other words, we can.

F

Get des would allow you to extend this dock 86 feet into beyond mean low water to get that 25.

F

Width, we're not even going up to mean low water, we're staying far short of that and the overall.

F

Footprint allowed by des is 1500 square feet and our docking structure is 886 square feet.

F

A little less than half of what's allowed, the float footprint is maxed out and that's.

F

Mainly due to boat slips and allowing a boat to to dock on there, you need that 40 feet. It's 40 by.

F

10 you need that 40 feet to dock a boat as part of this permit. We have coordinated with other state.

F

And federal agencies- we've coordinated with the chief harbour master, tracy, shattuck who's issued.

F

A statement within that application that the proposed docking structure will have no negative.

F

Effect on navigation in the channel and we've coordinated with the new hampshire heritage bureau.

F

Which determined that marsh elder is on this property.

F

It's away from the impact area we've shown this if we could go to the next couple slides, please peter.

F

Next slide shows the location of the marsh elder. You can see, we've circled it in red.

F

And you can see its relationship to the impact of the site. This is this marsh elder.

F

Is to be preserved as there's no construction activity proposed within close proximity to it.

F

And lastly, we've coordinated with the new hampshire heritage bureau.

F

Jessica bouchard who's issued a statement that no concerns about impacting the marsh elder as a.

F

Result of this project and lastly, we've consulted and coordinated with marine biologist mike dion.

F

The new hampshire, fish and game department who's issued a statement that this project will have no.

F

Would not adversely affect sturgeon species you're, probably aware, there's the atlantic.

F

And short-nosed sturgeon species that are prevalent in this back bait channel and.

F

That's really why the destruction uh restriction on the dock construction in late winter, not to.

F

Not to impact those species, so that's a summary of the state dredging phil permit.

F

Application, which includes both tidal buffer zone impact for the new home, as well as the.

F

Plantings and the docking structure happy to address any questions.

G

Thanks corey, um I will start. I do have one question regarding the uh kayaks and the kayak.

G

uh Rack structure that was at the bottom of the stairs will all that move to the dock.

G

Now, no, the kayak rack is intended to stay where it is reason being. As you come down the stairs.

F

They want the kayak next to the stairs and it's a it's a flat area with a little bit.

F

If we move it over to the dock, that would be. That means the kayaks would be in the water.

F

When high water comes in, it doesn't reach the kayak rack now, but if we move it over to the.

F

Right on the other side of the stairs and next to the dock, there's no place to get it where.

F

It's not affected by high water yeah. I guess I would mean storing the kayaks on the float.

G

Or hanging off the uh you know, with racks off the fixed pier just to protect that salt marsh.

G

Area and that that area looked like it was high ranking habitat in the in the map. You showed right.

F

Right because it did already look, you know pretty worn in that area boy. You come down.

F

The stairs go to the left with the kayak rack and the salt marsh yeah yeah. That area of.

F

The salt marsh is that the concern yes yeah correct, would defer to um would defer to.

F

Becca for that question the question, because if I may is there an opportunity to store those.

F

Kayaks on the float with a kayak rack in lieu of the kayak rack at the bottom of the stairs.

G

I don't know how um the rest of the commission feels about that. I'm.

G

I'm open to hearing what they think too. I can tell you when people raise their hand or have questions.

C

Yeah, I can't see anything allison has. I just agree with you. Okay, I think it's a good point. Abigail.

G

In the meantime, does anyone else have any ques other questions.

G

Peter you can just call on people, because I can't see anything so.

A

I don't see any right now, but okay I'll, let you know if they do yeah.

J

Just to be like 100, clear lynn has a question: the stairs are staying in.

J

The same location where we saw them oh correct, that was the final decision. Yes,.

F

They're permitted in that spot and um yeah it's our intent to keep them there right.

A

That's it other questions.

A

No other questions submit you mentioned. Okay, do do we have a answer from the homeowner.

G

About the kayak rack: oh the sorry, uh the preference is to keep it where it's at okay.

G

um Does anyone want to make a motion, so we can talk about it.

C

I'll make a motion that we recommend approval to the wetlands bureau.

C

To approve the application for 70 pleasant point drive with two stipulations. One is.

C

That the gang gangway and float uh storage be off site and the second.

C

That the kayak rack should be moved to the float or the pier.

D

Second, second,.

A

Jessica, okay, discussion.

C

I agree that the um the salt marsh areas being affected by the.

C

The rack: that's there now and more foot traffic is just not going to make the situation better.

C

So, that's why I think moving that kayak rack is important.

G

I agree with you allison. Can you say where you wanted, how you wanted that.

A

Second simulation, sorry, I I wanted the uh to move. The kayak rack to the float of the pier.

G

Or just I mean it doesn't even need to be the rack anymore. It's just either storing the kayaks.

G

On the float or there's um hardware, you can get to attach them to the fixed, pier as well. I've seen or.

J

Or even up in the upland grassy area, yeah yeah or in the upland true.

J

It feels like it helps compensate a little bit for the impact of the dock itself.

J

Right, I agree. It's a sizable dog.

G

Are we ready to any more discussion? We ready to um vote, looks like it. Okay, do you want to do.

G

You want to do roll call peter yep, how about you? What are you voting, sam, yes or the chair? I guess.

A

I should do you last, but I did jessica. Okay. Yes, yes, uh lynn, yes, abigail! Yes, allison! Yes, barbara.

A

Accused recused, barbers or kids yep and then sam voted, yes, okay, so uh unanimous with juan raquezo.

B

F

Thank you very much. I just want to express our appreciation too, for the sidewalk.

F

um In in the town of rye, every application is done with a sidewalk. I know you can't see.

F

Them all, but we really appreciate it when the commission gets out.

F

Sees the property, because I think it really helps um it, helps the review process and just want to.

F

Say how much we appreciate you coming out and looking at the site, so thank you all. It does help.

J

And yeah and your team, your team really showed up too nice to have so many people to to talk to you.

B

Want me to take over sam I'm going to pass it back. Barbara's taking the galaxy.

G

Yes, back to you, barbara, you don't have to guess on who what everybody's doing here.

B

Yeah: okay, next item on the agenda is the wetlands conditional use permit new business 1169.

B

1171 sagamore avenue somebody here to speak to that.

E

Oh, it's nice, that's nice! Thank you, uh joe coronadi, with jones of beach engineers.

I

With me, I have mike garappy he's the applicant. We have jim gove and mick cavari who's, the architect.

I

This is the site that we walked last week and we're here tonight for a uh conditional use.

I

Permit impacts to the wetland buffer for basically uh drainage, intake and outfall.

I

On sagamore ave and the um these uh requirements for storm water were part of our uh tac approval.

I

This is basically a culvert and a treatment system that we're putting under sagamore road.

I

That allows an overflow from our our site across sagamore into property that is, city owned and.

I

And so we have two small buffer impacts, one on either side of the road.

I

There's minimal vegetation in those areas we do have details on this plan here I can try to.

I

Highlight the two areas, I don't remember, which button is the.

I

They give you, it is the top one there you go, so this is the this is basically the cross culvert.

I

On sagamore, we have a buffer impact on the on the um the west side of the road and one on the.

I

East side of the road, no direct wetland impacts for this development or for this drainage work.

I

And a lot of this drainage work stemmed from a requirement that we have to put a sidewalk.

I

On sagamore, currently, the the sidewalk currently ends one um one street down.

I

On the north side of this of this road, which I think is actually called sagamore as well, but it's.

I

We might have it a sea star, cove, it's the entrance to sea, star cove condominiums.

I

The sidewalk ends on the north side of their property and the city requested.

I

That we bring a sidewalk all the way to the north side of our driveway entrance.

I

That sidewalk having to be raised with curbing required that we put catch basins in and the road.

I

And then it it became a question as to where do we outlet these catch basins? How do we handle the.

I

Storm water from the road, and so this system here is mainly for the the storm water in the roadway.

I

It also helps as an overflow from our storm water. It's not our main.

I

Outfall from our project.

I

All of our storm water is treated before it gets to this culvert.

I

And with this culvert because we're taking uh street storm water, we've also added a.

I

Structure called a jellyfish, so we're actually treating the water from the from the state road.

I

In this system as well, so this is treated water and two small temporary buffer impacts. That.

I

Will disturb put the culvert in and the head walls and then those areas will re-vegetate.

I

We're also removing a small area of.

I

Invasives that were that were found on the side of sagamore.

I

And during the site walk, it was noted that there's some japanese knotweed.

I

Right towards the outfall, the I guess outside of our impacts area shown, so we will.

I

On the revised next set of plans, we'll show that area as that japanese knotweed to also be removed.

I

And we're also noted that the trees there's a couple existing trees that.

I

Were noted on the site, walk and those will we'll call those out to be saved as well.

I

And that's all I have there's uh there's no conditional use permit needed for the.

I

Development itself, the ten units on the property- this is just all for this off-site work. Okay, thank.

B

You there are questions from the commissioners. Yes um can you so I from my understanding, contech.

G

Has a jellyfish filter, but they also have a storm filter. That's specific for storm water management.

G

How con from my understanding from these plans, you're using the jellyfish one and.

G

Not the storm filter is that correct we are, and this this one is meant for storm water.

I

It does have the same filtering techniques, so this is for storm water, mainly okay, and who is going to.

G

Maintain this I know the we will the applicant developers required to install it. The city.

I

Is agreeing to maintain all of this system because it's in the it's in the.

I

State right away, but the state doesn't won't, maintain it same with the sidewalk and that's.

I

Part of the dot's permit will require the city to maintain the storm water and the sidewalk. Okay,.

D

Yes, allison, so are you planning to replant the area where the invasive.

C

Species are coming out with the conservation mix. Yes, I believe that's the yeah. Thank you.

D

Thank you, um maybe it's somewhere in here, but so you're, putting what 10 houses or.

E

Whatever it is or 10 buildings and a driveway, so there and right now it's just two houses so.

E

There's a lot more impervious stuff going on to that now is that water, where that water is all.

E

What's happening with the runoff from the whole property now, with all of that.

E

um You know non-non-porous stuff and is it going into that storm water.

E

Thing, that's the state or the city. That then goes under the road I mean you said it's we're you're.

E

Basically, just doing the sidewalk but what's happening to all the water, that's being not going.

E

Into a ground right on your law, just it's a very complex drainage system, so there's a series of.

I

Rain gardens there's a rain garden here, another one here: there's underground detention, structures.

I

Here- and here there's another uh structure off here, so we are treating and holding and releasing.

I

All this storm water from the development on site, and then it all ends up going into this.

I

That little low area- it's really hard to see right here but yeah that low spot in here is where it.

I

All ends up being discharged, that's where all the storm water goes right, basically from the site. Now.

I

And we have to have a you know: a storm water reduction and treatment before we can.

I

Send it to that low spot? What happens with these? You know, storms that are you know, 500.

E

Year old storms, if that are happening much more frequently now and I mean- can, can that.

E

Hole under you know the rain gardens and the underwater. You know the underground stuff. Can that.

E

um What what's the capacity for that I mean is? Is it just going to flood into that and.

E

Then flood under I mean so just going to end up going over into the wetland in a you know,.

E

When we were on the site, it taught it seemed as if not but because the height is higher and it.

E

Can't go through and whatever you'd have to you'd have to really read the entire drainage report.

E

Yeah well and that's why I'm asking that which I I I can't. I guess I can't tell you number by.

I

Number but yes, there's, there's multiple storms. This is designed. It's not designed up to 500 a.

I

Year, there's no requirement in this state to go that high, but there's requirements for 50-year.

I

Storms, 100-year storms, we have overflows and this system is basically uh only gets utilized.

I

The part of the system- that's in the that we're permitting for the cup, only gets utilized for the.

I

Larger storm events 25 and the 50.: it's it's not a the culvert's not set at the bottom. It doesn't.

I

It won't get the the smaller storms, but it will end up taking larger storms, but there's a.

I

Large receiving area on the other side of the road as well. Okay, thank you apologize if everybody.

E

Else knew the answers to them. um Actually, I was wondering why, um with your extreme precipitation.

C

Estimates there's a plus 15 percent and there's stuff done in the margins there.

I

Oh on the for the on the drainage report. Yes so well, the plus 15 is because we're in the seacoast.

I

Area so we have to add, um you know we have to add basically additional rainfall to the rainfall.

I

Amounts that were given to um to sort of address some of the previous concerns about larger storms.

I

That seem to be happening yeah. The thing is that you only address up to a 50 year.

C

And you don't go into the hundred year and you know my recollection is that we have a hundred.

C

Year, storm every couple of years: we just go by with what the cities require. So not everyone.

I

Requires a hundred year storm and, to be honest, the 100 year, storm hasn't really happened. That.

I

Frequently, if you look at those stormfall amounts, the rainfall amounts that's within 24 hours,.

I

And I think the 50-year storm might be 9 or 10 inches of rainfall, but it's in 24 hours. It's not.

I

It's not in three days, four days, five days, it's in just 24 hours, so that's a storm that the mother's.

I

Day storm everyone talked about being a 500 year storm that storm was spread out over three days.

I

Even that storm didn't happen as quick as these storms were required to design for okay. Thank you.

J

Other questions, yes, I just questioned about just the overall drainage um and like what the natural.

J

Condition was so, did it naturally flow this direction and then what happens to the water after.

J

It enters this this wetland on the other side of the street. Do you have do you know where the.

J

Path, it takes out to the river. I can answer that I don't okay, really great there is, I mean we're in.

G

A drought, so that is the first time that I've ever seen that area dry. That's usually an active vernal.

G

Pool slash pond and there's actually a creek that runs from that through some city property.

G

Through actually, some of the marina property and under 1b, through a culvert out into cyber creek.

J

So there's a there's, a good outlet for it. It's not going to just pile up there, no yeah, it flows, flows.

G

Technically, it's not my backyard, but it flows through my backyard and then.

B

Under the road and out into the sagamore nice, okay.

J

Is this the natural direction that it would have flowed from this particular property.

I

Did well part of what started this conversation is that it appears.

I

It seems odd that there was not a culvert right here. We looked at city records, we looked at.

I

We talked to d.o.t, but we look at both sides of the street there's low points and there's.

I

Wetlands on both sides of the street and somehow they're not connected by a culvert, it seemed.

I

Like there probably was one there, nobody could find records of it, but it is basically the natural.

I

Drainage course is just exactly what was you know, it kind of would flow from the our low point. If.

I

That sagamore wasn't there right across into the other wetland and continue all the way to sagamore.

I

Creek, and uh so we're sort of, I think, we're sort of putting in what seems like it should be. There.

I

Maybe they'll find an old culvert when they get into that uh into that work and a lot of.

I

Our site does flow most of our site flows into that low spot. That's half on our property and.

I

Half off there's a couple areas. You know one area outback here that flows onto the neighboring piece.

I

Behind us to the west, in order to reduce the storm water going in their direction, we have a. We have a.

I

Holding you know, holding tank area, that's actually going to divert it back towards this low spot.

I

And that's mainly for the reason that we can't increase stormwater in any direction. You know we.

I

We have to look at all of our outfalls and make sure we have a decrease in.

I

Every direction, and so those are mainly the most of the stormwater heads to this low point here.

I

But there's a there's: a small percentage that does head out back towards sea cove condos behind us.

I

But we'll be stopping that neighborhood attention pond right on the other side.

I

Of our property line also that we're trying not to have our water go into.

D

Other questions.

D

She does oh good samantha. um The staff memo uh recommended a one year, long monitoring, plan of.

G

The invasive species- um I guess that were removed and and then the the planting uh plan is that.

G

Something you're amenable to yes and then um my other question was if you're also amenable to.

G

Practicing organic land care management practices on on your larger personal there, as all that is.

G

Ultimately, going to flow into the wetland area, even though it will be treated, this is the is this.

I

uh Reference to the like the nofa standards for uh yeah yep. Are you familiar with those.

I

That sounds fine right, I'm getting one one! Yes and one. I don't know what it is.

I

Okay, but the uh it's, I assume it's a fertilizer like a um basically no high strength, fertilizers.

I

uh Low stress yeah, eliminating synthetic uh pesticides and fertilizers.

I

That sounds fine and that's something we can add in our both of those could would obviously.

I

Be conditions of anything you vote on and can be added in the condominium documents too great.

G

Thank you he's given a thumbs up right, you're good. Now, all right, I already agreed to ability.

B

Thank you samantha. Yes, well we're talking about the the landscaping on the the residential area.

J

You mentioned keeping some trees in particular. Do you mind just pointing out on the map like where.

J

Where those are right, I can maybe did peter. Do you have the luck of getting the.

I

Color rendering that we sent over a couple days ago from isaac where the.

C

Trees are staying yes, and then I don't cross the street too. No, if we haven't.

I

If not, we can just look at the landscape plan, but the I didn't know if you had the.

I

Yeah, I don't think I got it well, unless you put it, I don't think we have it on enough.

J

We did get it over email, we got, but I don't think we got it.

A

I think it's in the meeting packet, but I can go back to the landscape plan.

A

I can get there oops there. It is so kind of in the center. There is that there's the landscape.

J

The only trees that oops keep doing the wrong button on the other side of the street, the only.

I

Trees that are areas that we can completely save is this corner. There's a ledge knob and a bunch.

I

Of these little dots, they look really small but they're, actually, all existing large trees.

I

And then we have the ability to keep some of the trees over in this corner.

I

As well and but the rest of them pretty much gonna have to be, you know, cut and replanted for the.

I

Construction of the houses, the driveways and the storm water system.

I

And then this is the trees to be replanted. You know we have a. We have a thick buffer.

I

Along these two property lines, we have an agreement, you know with the abutters some.

I

Of these trees are actually on their land uh to even help buffer their property. More.

I

We have a large uh green space area in the middle and then we'll have planting for each of the units.

I

In between the units, so we have to replant a lot of the existing trees that are out there.

I

But we're able to, I think, do that with lots of green space around this looks better in color, but.

I

You'll see that there's quite a bit of space for green. Thank you. Okay, thanks, okay,.

B

I think um there's another question: I'm going to go out on reach a little bit too.

B

Another property just to ask a question about the.

B

Snow storage uh because it kind of connects with a little bit what's going on in the culvert on.

B

The outfall there and my understanding is that, where you're storing the snow in the.

B

Center there there's underground storage of storm water and then that outlets to the culvert right.

I

Everything gets treated before it gets outlet, so everything on our site, the you know anything any.

I

Of the rain or snow, that's on the the pavement or in that central center area gets treated before it.

I

It has an outfall, so even the snow will be treated if it stored there any of the snow.

I

Around the the outside of the edge of pavements, gets picked up and brought into treatment areas.

I

So there is, there is adequate space for both snow storage and the storm water treatment. So.

B

Just to point out that nothing will treat the chloride, the salt so you're not able to treat.

B

That so that's still going to discharge so just to keep that in mind in your planning purposes, I.

B

Know that's not under what we're reviewing today, but I just want to make that point that you're.

B

Storing the snow somewhere where it's going to be concentrated salt going into that wetland.

B

So well hopefully diluted salt, but the right not concentrated, but the more concentrated than.

B

Than natural so right, but I know that's not under our reviews, so go ahead. I have a question related.

E

To when you said treated, what does that mean? Well, there's different different storm water.

I

Treatments devices: you know that we're allowed to use that treat storm water, for um you know.

I

To meet city's rules, which are very similar to the state's rules more filtration than anything.

E

Else, yeah, there's infiltration as part of it. We have infiltration, we have the rain gardens.

I

There's quite a few different devices on this for treatment. um It's been through kind of a lengthy.

I

Review by the city attack; okay, because of the the ledge and the.

I

Storm water and the tightness of the site, so we've been through.

I

Quite a bit of review on that aspect and- and I think they've we're basically all signed off.

I

On that aspect, on-site for sure in the um so that was their I mean they had concerns.

I

Similar concerns and as well on storm water, and I think it's been pretty well vetted at this point.

I

Peter cena said I don't know what six or seven attack means.

I

um Okay: okay, thanks no other questions from the commissioners.

B

uh Before we do a motion, I think I was gonna just see if it. If it's okay.

B

Right before we do a motion, maybe okay, to um open it up. If there's any questions from the public.

B

No okay, nobody online! No just samantha samantha, I said no, she doesn't have a question she's just.

B

The only one online- oh, my gosh, okay great, uh so anybody want to make a motion. Yes uh I'll.

G

Make a motion that we recommend approval for the conditional use permit at 1169, 1171 sagamore ave.

G

With the stipulations that the invasive species be monitored and managed, and that nofa standards.

G

Are used uh for organic land care management at the site and included in the condominium docks.

D

Okay, anybody want a second second violence discussion.

D

Okay- and we want to go for a vote, then roll call vote um samantha.

D

Yes, jessica, yes, lynn, yes, abigail! Yes, yes, yes. Thank you very much. Thank you passes. Thank you great.

B

So next on the agenda is zero, patricia drive anybody here to speak. For that.

A

Same people, I have a speaking role in this particular.

K

Application um mike garabee with garabee planning consultants.

K

And it's, I guess: it's been a while, since I've been before the commission with respect to this project,.

K

And I'm not sure how many members were on the board when we were when we were.

K

In front of you before, but um we've been working with the.

K

City um uh city planning staff and the legal department to satisfy some conditions of approval.

K

This is a previously approved subdivision. It was approved back in february of 2021.

K

And I guess through.

K

Lack of following the clock are conditional use permit expired in february of 2022.

K

So we're at this point we're wrapping up sort of final revisions to the the uh the planning board.

K

Conditions of approval and changes to revisions to the mylars, but obviously we need to take the.

K

Next step, which is back in front of you folks today to have hopefully your favorable favorable.

K

Recommendation to the planning board to re-grant the conditional use permit for this project.

K

I can take you through the plans and the criteria and jim is here as well. Jim gov is still with me.

K

Thankfully, jim did all the wetland delineation um this project.

K

There's an existing roadway infrastructure already in place along this right away, right off of martha.

K

Terrace- and it's uh was intended at one point to the road- was this this road here shown in on on.

K

The uh the plan here, I think it's the top button top button, so this right away here is existing.

K

Both on paper and in the field there's existing pavement just in drainage infrastructure in place.

K

And it's currently, as you can see, as depicted in the the darker shade.

K

I'm pressing the wrong button again. The darker shaded area is area that is.

K

Current area of impact, that's in the prime wetland buffer.

K

So we're looking to actually have a reduction in the total wetland buffer prime wetland buffer.

K

By removing all the existing asphalt and re uh repaving, uh the road narrow in a.

K

Narrower, I believe, we're doing 18 feet versus the 20 to 24 foot wide pavement width. That's out there.

K

Now we weren't really able to determine the exact existing width of pavement, but we're able to sort.

K

Of probe and kind of figure, it's about 20 to 24 feet wide currently, so we'll actually end up with.

K

A reduction in impervious within the buffer, but because we are impacting the buffer we needed.

K

To go before the board, um this commission and the planning board for a conditional use permit.

K

We've also gone before the state nhdes for a prime wetland buffer impact. We have received those.

K

Permits- and we are also having to pay into the compensatory mitigation program into the arm fund.

K

For the impacts as well, so can you repeat that last part, you just said: oh with the with the nhdes.

K

uh Wetland permit for the prime wetland impact. We have a compensatory mitigation for the impacts and.

K

We're paying into the arm fund for that okay, so we have a payment in lieu of mitigation. On-Site.

K

So I know the last time we were before you, you folks recommended. I believe it was unanimously to.

K

Carry this forward to the planning board, I know that there were some conditions of that.

K

Approval some recommend recommendations from this commission. I believe we implemented those.

K

In our plan notations and would certainly carry those over into the this new approval.

D

Barbara, thank you. Yes, um I have a couple of questions. um One thing is that uh you say on our.

C

Packet number page number 343- the right of way is to be transferred up at the corner, where it.

C

Meets martha's terrace and I don't understand that what what's going on there so peter? If you want to.

K

I guess it's the sub, I think it's the I'm not sure what sheet number it is. It may be the next one.

K

um That one not no, actually, I think it's the one previous.

C

Right-Of-Way to be transferred is on page of the. I know that may not be part of the. I mean.

K

I think I gave the sheet 9 of 10 psp sheet 9 of 10 down the lower right hand corner there. It is.

K

So yes, so this you talked about, I keep pressing the middle button and that's not the right one.

K

By the way, so this area here you're talking about yes yeah, so that area here so herein lies a lot of.

K

The confusion with this application so we're and I'm actually going upstairs after this to meet.

K

With beverly again and with the legal department to talk about this, a little bit further peter's.

K

Been involved in some of these discussions as well, that's riveting and you should join us afterwards,.

K

uh That that section of the right-of-way was actually.

K

uh Dedicated as part of the the plat recordation back in 1960, something it was also along with.

K

All of martha terrace as well, so this the martha terrace roadway and then this little.

K

Sort of section of roadway was dedicated and accepted by the city, so it's owned by the city.

K

The rest of the right-of-way is owned by the abutting parcel, so the rest of the unshaded area.

K

Here is all owned by uh at the abutters um to um to the north and the south of the right-of-way.

C

So, having not been on the site, I'm just wondering why the road couldn't swing further away from.

C

You know or toward that 100 buffer line. You know if we swing it a little bit further. That way.

C

Is it because there are a bunch of trees there if there are a bunch of trees there? I don't want to.

C

Obviously bother you well when you say so you're saying further, I'm saying the roadway like through.

C

That, right of way, why can't we move it closer to the like? You have a um 100 foot, prime wetland.

C

Buffer delineated sure, and I'm wondering why we can't just curve the road a little bit further.

C

Away from the uh the wetland itself, well, two things one is that we're mimicking the existing.

K

Roadway, so we're actually all we're really doing, is removing the asphalt and then we're going to.

K

Repave in the exact same spot, which is already disturbed area second; secondly, right along and.

K

I guess it's the the westerly or the easterly side of the property. Excuse me so all along here. So if.

K

You can see where my cursor is in the middle of this circle. There's a retaining wall that runs.

K

All the way, along this edge of the roadway so and it's a significant grade change there may be maybe.

K

Shown in the photos peter actually- and this plan is hard to see, but on this sheet, there's topo yeah.

A

It shows it's a little steeper up in that. That's like a hill. Okay, if you look at the the photos.

K

That I submitted along with the cup application you'll, see, I think, where are they before this? It's.

A

Yeah there we go so there should be a photo see that retaining wall there.

K

So we're getting as close to that wall as we can and you can see all the pavement obviously.

K

In good shape, but it's you know it was paved back in the early 70s. It was all constructed and then.

K

We're you know we're maintaining all of those trees on the westerly side of the right-of-way.

K

And those are all been marked with conservation, flag tags so.

K

No cutting. What have you another question is: why can't the snow storage be next to the houses.

K

The snow storage next to the houses.

K

Well, as its design, the snow I mean, the snow would be pushed and it would peter. I don't.

K

Know if you can go to, I think it's the there's two sheets in where it shows the driveway plan.

K

um So the snow storage would naturally be as as they're plowing they're going to wing.

K

It to either side I guess they could look to winging it towards the easterly side of the road.

K

And that would allow the storm the snow to melt and then get into the collection and to get into.

K

The drainage structure, which is a proposed rain garden and then ultimately, it's going to be pushed.

K

As they're plowing, because it'll be one plow operator doing the roadway and the driveways.

K

It'll be privately maintained, it's going to be privately maintained, it is yep the.

K

Roadway, we all privately maintained so that one area that we were talking about before.

K

um That's been it's part of the cities right away, the city.

K

Council is deeding that back to the landowners, so it'll all be privately maintained.

C

um So we really appreciate having anybody. That's plowing snow, be green snow, plow, uh pro trained so.

C

I I'd like that to be stipulated as part of this project that is commonplace. The these.

K

These days, so I don't see that as being an issue, if that's something you want to add.

K

As an additional recommendation recommended condition of approval for the cup.

C

And you, your design is based on a 10-year 24-hour storm event. When we've had a lot more.

C

Sort of hundred year, storms recently, and so I'm just wondering you know.

C

Did you look at the future and well I I can tell you that I am not an engineer.

K

um And I don't have my engineer with me. However, um we designed it in accordance.

K

With uh dpw's requirements, so it's always vetted through tac as well, um and so we designed the.

K

The rain garden to accommodate their requirements.

K

Right now there is no treatment, I mean it is all.

K

Impervious, even though there's you know, there's some breakup in the asphalt. It's still um you know.

K

Compacted gravel underneath and it's there's no treatment to the runoff.

K

Today- and you know we'll be providing a narrower roadway at the end of the day,.

D

Okay, yeah, I believe in our last um approval.

C

We stipulated that there be signage talking about the.

C

The fact that there's a prime wetland- yes and that's.

C

Still included those that those those plaque placards are actually uh installed already.

K

Okay, thank you yep. I don't know, as if they're exactly you did.

K

They are uploaded onto the.

K

City site um and vincent vincent hayes required those, and we do have photos of them.

K

They're also along the they're, also along the entire prime wetland line onto the lot as well.

D

Okay, thank you. Thank you. Samantha, do you know peter if there was a stipulation of the previous.

G

Approval uh that we had nofa use of nofa standards on there, I think so and if, if not, would they be.

G

Amenable to those standards, I believe there was, and I and we would I can't recall, but they are.

D

Okay, great question: no, you go ahead. um Can you tell me a little bit about the history of this.

E

um This piece of property who who owns is it is somebody adjacent in one of the things? Has it.

E

Been handed down, is it um I'm just kind of curious? Why um what you know what the history is of? It is.

E

It a new purchase, I mean, I know a year ago. You guys um cemented whatever, but were your plus.

E

uh What's, can you tell me what the history is? I can't tell you all the history. I.

K

I can tell you that the subdivision was approved back in the. I believe it was.

K

In the mid 60s uh in the build out of martha, terrace and part of this patricia drive, which is.

K

You know we're renaming it hemlock way or hemlock drive um that just there was one lot owned by the.

K

Fox family um and they owned it ever since, yes, they had owned it.

K

For many years, I'm not exactly sure how many years they owned it, but we recently acquired it in.

K

I believe july of 2021, uh who recently what we did so yeah hemlock, realty investments. Llc is.

K

The current owner of the property, so it's spot on spec you're, going to build two houses and.

E

They're both going to be sold to somebody not in your family, more than likely correct, yes,.

E

I guess that's. That's all. I've got okay. Thanks, lynn, it's sort of a sort of a.

J

Similar question just thinking about I mean I know our role is really just to look at the.

J

Road which is in the 100 foot buffer, but so just to clarify so you're building.

J

Two homes and then does this road and open up any additional space.

K

Down the road: yes, so the property line is uh it's in right here. So this property line.

K

um Is is the end of our property and it's it's undeveloped land back in here the road was.

K

Intended, if you look at the old subdivision plans, the road was intended to go all the way through.

K

And then back up to there's a another patricia drive on the other side, which is actually.

K

Patricia drive but it ends in another cul-de-sac. It was intended to connect there and there was a.

K

Plan was to do I don't recall how many lots they were in a future phase might have been another 15.

K

Lots or something like that, um but that that can't happen going forward because we have no ownership.

K

Of that parcel and- and you know per this plan, there will be two homes in the way. So I don't.

J

Think there will be any ability to connect through right so and I'm assuming that's part of your role.

J

Peter's is kind of looking at sort of long-term planning. Is this an area where you're hoping.

J

To have some additional residential development, just no no yeah! No, but I mean you know, there's if.

A

The if the property meets the zoning and they can figure out access there would be. I think it would.

A

Be really challenging in this location because it's so steep back there and there's no connection.

A

Without going through private property, so there's no other right-of-way that would connect to this.

A

That I'm aware of so they would basically have to you know, create a road through someone's yard.

A

Right yeah, but I think this is going to be the end of that development. These are just the last two.

A

Out pieces that they're able to you know, like you said there was a lot more platted, but they never.

A

Went to fruition, and so this is what they're able to come up with in terms of design that would work.

A

With the new wetland regulations and things right, so if they had built it back in 669, they probably.

A

Wouldn't have to deal with the wetland regulations there wouldn't have been prime wetlands, but.

A

Since they didn't they're more limited on their site here, okay, that makes sense thanks for that.

J

Background cause didn't miss the I wasn't here for the first time you came before the commission.

E

um You talked about how the road's going to be narrower and so you're actually getting rid of.

E

um Some of the um pervious or impervious um thing, but I went out there and that is about the most.

E

Pervious um asphalt, I've ever seen in my life, it's basically decomposing and nature is just.

E

Taking it back, I know, there's a bed underneath, but things are sprouting up and but it seems.

E

As if you're going to be running power, lines and and water lines, and things like that and.

E

So it seems a little I don't know. um I feel like it's more disruptive than maybe.

E

You know it's like: oh it's going to be better and I'm like. I don't know if.

E

That's the case, but it's you know yeah I mean I can't speak. um I can't speak from what's happening.

K

Environmentally, with all the asphalt breaking up in every storm event, that's going somewhere yeah.

E

Oh, no, it should get out, but anyway, the removal of that and then the introduction of a new asphalt.

K

Base uh in top coat and then treatment, I think, would be ultimately of benefit.

K

Beyond where where it is today, so I I but I can't speak to I. I believe it would be a.

K

You know we believe it will be environmentally better with the treatment uh as well.

K

um But yeah you're right it is, it is breaking up the photos. You know show that as clear as.

K

Day but as I think you folks probably know, we have to treat all of that still as impervious.

K

Because of the compact gravel, that's underneath, what's breaking up.

B

Any other questions concerns we wanted to make a motion.

C

I'll make a motion that we recommend approval of the.

C

Hemlock way, application um with two stipulations one is that they have uh use a snowplo, a snowpro.

C

Trained plow driver, and the second is that nofa standards should be added to their deed or plan.

D

A second okay, great thank you, discussion, yeah yeah! um We sat at that table talking about.

E

um You know 25 feet is for water. uh Filtration 100 feet is for something else.

E

250 is for wildlife. This is a prime wetlands area, the it's a bog. It has trees, these houses.

E

Are going to take out some of the only tree line along that whole area? And um I just where.

E

You know, I know it's the 100 foot buffer, but it's all.

E

It's all part of the buffer and it's all part of the wetlands, and where do we draw.

E

The line between taking out a dense forested area to put in two homes with a lot of space.

E

And probably people are gonna, they're gonna have lawns, and this and that and um and not.

E

Respect the ecosystem that needs to be there for the that prime lap lens. um That's my dilemma.

E

Okay, abigail, whatever. I would just like to comment that we have jurisdiction over 100 feet right and.

C

Here's the 100 foot buffer right and those two houses are outside the 100. I understand that, but.

E

The access to it is in our control, there's already pavement in that area. They're going to tear it up.

C

And they're going to yeah, I know that you don't have to tell me that. Okay, I mean I get that, but.

E

As a result of tearing that up and putting in a potentially better system who knows.

E

You are inviting more traffic to that whole area and you're and you're destroying forested area on.

E

Around um so anyway, so that's just it's.

E

um Anyway, if, if our.

E

Our directive is to protect um wetlands, we have to protect more, I mean it needs to be looked at.

E

More than just 100 feet because 100 feet doesn't protect them, but anyway I just that's why I didn't.

E

Ask him about it, I'm just sharing it with you. Also on a side note around where um allison was.

E

Talking about um that right-of-way area, somebody's dumping, something into where the little emblems.

E

Are on the trees, somebody is dumping, yard waste stuff, a lot of lawn clippings up against big trees.

E

Right next to the driveway of that house, that's there at the corner and um there are.

E

Lots of branches and stuff, but there's a lot of cut, cut grass there just kind of molding.

E

Anyway, so as a side note right by the sign, that's you know protect, you know not allowed to disturb.

E

It um and there's some cool hiking trails in there too, so um I discovered that anyway, that's.

B

It's hard yeah, um I think we also have samantha, has a comment. Yeah.

G

Was there lighting discussed the last for the last approval just of the.

G

Roadway area no no lightning proposed. Thank you thanks. Okay, another discussion.

B

It is always hard, especially when you're cutting down trees.

B

And they kind of stay within our jurisdiction on this one and it's a prime wetland so.

B

um There's no anybody from the public wanted to speak.

B

Well: okay: we want to do a um vote on this, all those in favor roll call. Could I just ask one.

J

Question is this a project that's gone through attack peter yeah. Was there anything there that.

J

Surfaced in terms of other people's priorities around the city that we should be aware of.

A

There was some back and forth on the storm water for sure um and then there's definitely there's.

A

Still some back and forth on the subdivision piece but um yeah they they designed it to.

A

At least add new treatment in there, where they hadn't any treatment that right before there was.

A

Storm water, but it was just catch basins. It went right in there was no treatment.

D

Other than maybe a deep sump, it wasn't even deep um so now there's storm water treatment, but other.

A

Than that there's not a lot, you know tech had some looking at the utilities and access and all that.

D

But it's going to be a private road right, so it's interesting.

J

Whatever we might recommend it could easily get over road at the planning board phase right. I.

J

Guess I was just sort of weighing that: yeah cool, okay, welcome, yep, real cool, so uh samantha.

G

Yes, jess. Yes, then, yes, abigail, no allison! Yes, barbara! Yes! So it's five to one! That's five to one.

A

Motion passes yep yeah. Thank you very much very much appreciate it. um Next, on.

B

The agenda we have a work session at 124, kensington road somebody's here- for that.

B

Do we have time we have to get out of here? uh I don't think there's it yes. Kevin says yes,.

B

What is there htc tonight or a meeting after us? Is anybody why we just got a minute one.

B

In motion to go past 5 30. alison I'll, make a motion that we go past the 5 30, but stop at six.

D

Yes, I'll, second, that, okay, all those in favor roll call, uh jess.

B

Yes, abby. Yes, yes, then, yes, star district, is it it's at 6 30 tonight, historic, district, yeah, sam.

B

Yes and the chair votes. Yes, thank you very much. Okay. We should try to be done by six.

A

Fifteen at the latest- okay, that's six! uh You think yeah, okay, go ahead! Eric! Sorry! Thank you.

L

um For the record, eric weinridge with altus engineering, I also have with me on darlene.

L

Olette who's, one of the owners her and her husband, neil, it's 124 kensington road tax map, 152 lot, 20.

L

And it's a 19 000 square foot lot on probably developed somewhere 75 to 100 years ago.

L

uh In 2012, when we were working on the sanderson original parcel, um they acquired additional land.

L

Because they are on right up against well, they were right up against their back property line.

L

And they really valued that wetland system that I'm now adjacent to them. Peter lachlan.

L

Had purchased and they wanted to make sure at that time that that area was preserved and.

L

On and so that they bought that additional land.

L

So I'm a lefty.

L

So the back of their property line, like used to be that so they bought all this land here, which is.

L

Primarily the wetlands there was no wetlands actually on their original parcel, uh and so it's.

L

The parcel itself is much larger than uh most of the other parcels in the uh in the neighborhood.

L

It's about 19 000 square feet and the most of the parcel is actually made up. How do I switch.

L

The sheet here- oh I do it, you do all right. I have no control nope you're killing me. Okay, perfect.

L

So, as you can see, um the wetlands is in the back portion of the site.

L

And that the 100 foot buffer encumbers, almost the entire parcel deck.

L

Really a building envelope, that's outside the 100 foot buffer and meets the front and side yard.

L

Setbacks is a tiny sliver which includes the front part of their home and then just a little bit.

L

Part of their driveway, so what they want to do is they have a detached garage on it's basically, at.

L

Ground elevation on and it's only a couple feet away from the existing home and what they want.

L

To do is uh be able to have an attached garage on, and so in order to build that attached garage.

L

You actually have to push it a little bit further away because the the finished floor of the house.

L

Is about four feet above grade, so you're going to be able to figure out how to go from at grade.

L

And then get up four feet, so that's why the um the building is is pushed over on further we've.

L

Moved it away from the wetland system um so that we can actually, you know, increase the buffer in.

L

The backyard area and we're also proposing on some vegetation improvements in in the area, so I think.

L

We have a pretty complete application. I think it's a very reasonable application, um we're only adding.

L

About 800 square feet on the of impervious on the lot on the patio in front is going to be.

L

On permeable materials and then everything drains away from the wetland or the driveway area, the.

L

Roof pitch is down the middle, so there'll be stone, drip edge in the back and we're looking for some.

L

Input before we file the formal application, I think it it's an excellent application on.

L

Darwin's here to speak to it from the owner's perspective, if you have any questions for her.

B

Okay, thank you. Eric questions, alison yeah. Why can't the entire.

C

New development move forward so further forward. That way on the lot.

L

Towards kensington, yes, so on, it has a lot to do with a couple different things, but.

L

um Primarily, the existing house and the connection point um to move it forward would actually change.

L

Significantly, the connection on from the.

L

Existing house to the back and and change the interior uh layout of the house.

C

It's it's further away from the buffer. It's it's a complete redo, you're, ripping up the.

C

Garage, that's there and you're building a new one rather than putting it where it is. I would.

C

Really like to see it further away from the buffer, and I would like to see that entire.

C

Driveway be porous as well, but I don't have an objection to the driveway being porous. I think.

L

That we can work with that moving it further forward on changes. A lot of flow in the house.

L

It changes structural issues uh and keeping it in its location allows you to minimize.

L

On impacts of rebuilding a significant portion of the house, we are moving it further away. We're not.

L

Having any hardscape, you know on traffic areas and back we're treating all that water. That's.

L

Coming off and we are increasing the buffer and providing uh more need of plantings back there.

C

Yeah but you're increasing the impervious surface by 764 square feet. Correct. Is there anything.

D

You're doing we'll offset that easily by making the rest of the driveway permeable.

B

Do you have some sort of information to show the layout of the house that would be.

L

um I think the architectural, maybe in the packet- I don't know if we included those or not.

D

Yes, I don't see the existing houses.

A

A

Back one, that's, I think the only floor plans yeah so that's the floor plan and that.

L

That connection point is where the existing um doorway is today, so moving it forward.

L

Would interfere with the stairs going to the second floor.

B

G

um When you do come back before us, with the with the actual application.

G

It would be really helpful to see um photos of the existing lot.

G

And the wetland, and just I I'm having a hard time visualizing what's there now, so that would.

G

Be very helpful, meaning the vegetation or what I mean we can provide photos, but.

G

Yeah vegetation, but also you know just to get a better sense of how close um you know.

G

The existing garage is to that uh 25 foot no cut buffer, what's kind of in that no cut buffer. Now.

G

Where this new proposed garage is going to go just generally, what the vegetation is like there and and grade, and things like that.

L

Okay, so the plan has we have a grading plan. uh We also have on the site plan showing on.

L

The built infrastructure there's some retaining wall on in that area that and bark mulch there's.

L

Very little on built infrastructure today in the 25 foot, cut that 25 foot no cut buffer on.

L

The primary activity of other than on enhancing the buffer is all between the.

L

25 and 50 foot so we're not really doing anything in that area. If you go to c2, you can see.

L

That 25 foot buffer line yeah- I just plans, only goes so far. It's just it's very helpful to see an.

G

Actual visual in photographs- that's all I'm asking we can provide photos absolutely so I'm thinking.

B

I know it's just a residential project that that um doing a site visit just a quick one.

B

So people can see it be happy too, because I find it really helpful to go to the property and see.

B

Because there's a big lawn expanse and then the trees are right up against the back there and.

B

They're really big and mature- that's kind of just helpful to see. I do want to point out that on the.

L

Property to the north that the existing garage is closer to the wetlands than what we're proposing.

L

So we're moving further away than the abutter on and that we're trying to improve the buffer.

B

Yeah other questions yeah. It's I think a sidewalk would be very helpful because.

C

um I just don't understand, there's there's a deck and there's a door shown and I don't know.

C

Why the garage can't move forward? Okay, jess! I just need some clarification on sheet. One.

G

Where you show like the shrubs for the buffer planting, there's a hashed orange area, what is.

G

That c1, or it just says sheet one of one, so the conditional use permit yeah. Let me just go to that.

L

It goes into the shrubs and buffer planting. I'm just I'm not clear what that space is that.

L

Which section it's at the end, it's the orange hashed part. Oh the! So the orange hatch part.

L

Light this whole area, yes, well, that is area that will be disturbed.

L

Temporarily or permanently disturbed through the activity, and so that includes some regrading.

L

Work for the foundation on and the building itself and and so forth. So it's.

L

Anything that's in the buffer that will uh require some regrading. Okay, thank you and that's our.

L

Full on impact area temporary and proposed gotcha. Thank you.

B

Other questions.

B

Yeah, I would I I think a site visit would be helpful. I I'm kind of like feeling like.

B

This is sort of you know, it'd be good to see like you know, when you say you're coming in.

B

If you move it forward, you've got to come in by the stairs. You know it's.

B

um And I know that you are moving it a little bit back, but this is all in the buffer. So you.

B

Know the whole lot. You know totally the whole lots in the buffer yeah, but that you know.

B

Work moving it back a little bit and but increasing the size that dramatically it's kind of.

B

It's just hard, and so the garage itself today is basically non-functional because it's so small.

L

You can't get two vehicles in it and doesn't mean it's not fun. It's really important as.

L

I want to say this, but I will, and as they age in place to be able to have.

L

An on their garage and be able to come and go from their garage would go without going in and out.

L

On I, I just reconstructed my garage down the road on and it's fantastic we're excited.

L

But it's not attached and so they're only three feet away and they don't want to go anywhere.

L

They want to stay there yeah. Well, I don't know if there's a way to.

B

Think outside the box and make both happen, but just that's a feedback at this point.

J

And, as you kind of alluded to a decision on this house sets a precedent for other houses.

J

And you've already kind of alluded to that. So I think we're also just conscious of that.

B

So, and behind there at this point anything else.

B

That you want to say about the buffer plantings, there's not a. We haven't specifically.

L

I've gone through the full buffer plantings on. I believe we called out on the conditional use plan.

L

um You know that we'd be planting three feet on center or 11 per 100 square feet.

L

And we have a list of plantings that we will be providing. But we haven't specifically placed.

L

Each one yet- and you know we want your input on that as well. Are you comfortable with that.

B

To get the information later on the plantings when you the plantings, it.

L

Right there in there right in the center.

L

There's the information on the plant: that's right, yeah! Is there any feedback on the plantings.

B

At this point, what's there now.

J

Is it just grass, it can't hurt what is there now.

J

In that, I'm actually right behind the garage and on the side is a dense uh raspberry. um A little.

L

Not that small, pretty pretty large little on raspberries and then there's just a variety of.

L

Mature plantings in there there's some oaks there's a variety of plants of trees.

J

So this does represent a significant kind of read landscaping of that area. That's what I'm trying to get at? No, it's not okay!.

L

Yeah, there's no intent for a lawn in back at all.

J

So it's just like a little enhancement is what you're proposing absolutely little extra plantings.

J

I mean yeah, it's a great little spot. I've been I've been enjoying it for 20 some odd years.

J

Sounds good so pretty much what's going to get disturbed? Is the lawn, correct, yeah yeah I mean.

L

And we have, you know no issue on making the driveway all permeable.

B

No other questions or comments, we'll schedule a site visit for yeah. So what's how do we do that.

L

Do we do it now or do we do it through we'll um we'll send out a uh email and get some with some.

A

Dates to everybody and then pick it try to get it. So you have some time before the next meeting. Okay,.

L

Great yep thanks sarah. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay. Next item.

B

On the agenda is our 99 pierce island road, the pool house.

M

Good afternoon my name is joe almeida: I'm the facilities manager for the city of portsmouth.

M

We are here to present um the project at the pierce island pool um with me.

M

Tonight is uh wayne lippert from oak point and associates and um he's been on the design team.

M

For quite some time now so he's very well versed to present and answer any questions you might have.

N

Thank you good afternoon, so just a a brief.

N

Overview on the portsmouth pool project: this is the overall existing site plan.

N

The project primarily is a complete renovation of the entire pool and the pool systems.

A

Oh, I have the which, which sheet, do you want yeah? This is perfect. This is.

N

The sheet right here so that top button, if you point it right at the screen yeah there you go.

N

So the the overall pool this is the the overall pool. So again the entire pool will be renovated.

N

The in the liner will be replaced, they'll be the gutter around. The pool will be replaced.

N

All the associated piping and and pool systems are going to be replaced.

N

And as part of that, the pool pump house is going to need to be replaced. Currently, that's.

N

Located right here on the northwest corner of that pool house of the of the existing pool.

N

It's located within the hundred foot, tidal buffer zone just off the edge of the sheet.

N

Is the the pascatico river this line right here represents the 100 foot, tidal buffer zone.

N

So because we're going to be reconstructing, this remover actually we'll be removing this pump house.

N

So we're going to be doing this, this disturbance within the 100 foot, tidal buffer zone, is going to.

N

Trigger the wetlands permit, so we're going to be submitting a standard, new hampshire standard and.

N

Fill permit as part of this project. If you move to the next sheet, this shows actually one more sheet.

N

Beyond this, this is the proposed layout, so this would be the area right here where that existing.

N

Pump house is located we're actually pulling that back and constructing that new pump house.

N

Outside that 100 foot, tidal buffer zone, the area- that's currently in this area here.

N

Will be just restored to turf there will be temporary disturbances that are required as part.

N

Of this project, as well within within that hundred 100-foot tidal buffer zone at the pool deck.

N

Around in these areas, it's going to be essentially, you know, removed and replaced in kind. The layout.

N

Of the pool deck isn't changing so that'll be a temporary disturbance of that pool. Deck.

N

The the disturbance so the overall disturbance for the project within that 100-foot, tidal buffer.

N

Zone it was about 9, 000 or 9 200 square feet of temporary disturbance. That would be primarily.

N

Again, the removal and replacement of that concrete deck and then the turf areas adjacent to that that.

N

Will be disturbed, there will be some 1443 square feet of permanent disturbance. That's the area.

N

Where the existing pump house will be removed and that's being restored with turf and then as part.

N

Of this there's a currently a drainage system that exists around the the west side of that pool. It's.

N

A very shallow under drained drainage type system, with small landscape drains. It's right now that.

N

System is apparently clogged and not functioning well. We believe that it actually discharges.

N

Out to the river on that west side, I believe that pipe is actually further out and it may be filled.

N

With sediment, because of where that's located so we will burst, and it's essentially going to.

N

Replicate this drainage system, but we are going to create a new drainage outfall on that north side.

N

Of the pool to outlet the drainage system for the new for the new project, but again we will.

N

Be replicating a very similar drainage system that will be small landscape drains that are.

N

Essentially, just collecting water that comes off the pool, deck and a small small adjacent turf area.

N

We propose, as part of this project in lieu of providing on-site mitigation, we're actually.

N

Proposing to pay into the armed fee for for the permanent impacts within the tile buffer zone.

N

So I don't know if there were further questions on the application at this point.

C

Yes, allison, I'm sure you've been working on this for a really long time, but um only recently.

C

The city council approved the purchase of the community campus, and my thought was: why can't you.

C

Not fix the pool, but just turn it back into a natural area and since you're doing everything.

C

Completely from start to finish, put it out at the community campus where everything else is located.

C

It seems like that would be a much better spot for it than this small island yeah. I'm the engineer on.

N

The project, so I can't speak to the you, know the city policies and the decisions to that.

N

You know I understand, you know that this project is it's entirely within the title buffer zone. It's.

N

Within the shores shoreland so but this site has been disturbed, you know the pool dates back to.

N

You know the pre-1940s that this was constructed and we're pretty much as part of this renovation.

N

Making you know improvements in kind there's briefly, so that clearly would be a you know.

M

Policy decision from the council absolutely, but um I can tell you in working on the project.

M

And you know from being here for a long time the the the pool is in the island, of course, is.

M

Truly, the crown jewel of portsmouth- I mean it's, it's an amazing amenity to have this pool. It's.

M

One of the largest pool- it's almost a it's- you know 900 000, gallon pool it's very unique. Its.

M

Shape is unique, it's it's considered, um you know it has it. It has historic value of the.

M

Pool itself as well, it used to have, I believe it used to be a salt water pool from actually.

M

Water cleaned from the river yeah and there used to be a high diving board. There were.

M

So the pool has an amazing history that um we we realized very quickly when we presented this.

M

To the community, just how important the history of the pool was and the continued use of it um a.

M

Lot of adults and portions now remember learning how to swim, nor learning to swim in this pool.

M

So but as far as the global decision of whether it's day or not, that is that's clearly a council.

M

Decision, but as of right now, our charge is to fix it and keep it and to keep it moving.

D

Okay, yeah. Yes, um you. I have two questions. You keep referring to turf. What do you mean? Yes,.

N

So the area that, where we're removing that pump house it's within the fenced pool area,.

N

So around the pool, there's the concrete deck and be between the concrete deck and the fence.

N

Line, it's actually lawn right, so users that are out there using you know the pool they if they.

N

Don't want to sit on the the you know, the concrete there's, the lawn area. So essentially this small.

N

Corner will be will be replaced with lawn. It will be okay, it will be lawn not like a synthetic turf.

N

It will be sod, so we propose to install sod, so it'll be sod installed in that area, and this is.

G

Just more of a curiosity question: have they ever considered going back to a saltwater pool.

G

Instead of it's, it's not something we considered as part of the design process.

D

Okay, I wouldn't know we worked with a pool consultant on this and I wouldn't.

N

Know the logistics of that and how we get to that. But it's not something we considered.

N

Okay, oh sam yep yeah have any um alternative energy sources been looked at uh for electrifying.

G

uh The plum pals the existing pool house- I I think it would be a great opportunity to potentially put.

G

um Solar out there- and I was just curious if that had come up in any discussions.

G

It's not yeah. The pump house is actually a relatively small small footprint, so you know.

N

There could be some solar panels installed on that roof potentially, but I don't.

N

Think it would provide enough energy source to to run all these pool systems.

G

Yeah, I don't not necessarily installing them on the roofs of those those two.

G

Structures, but just generally in that area and then using that power to power. All of these things.

N

Yes, that's not not anything we considered during the design process.

D

It's a if you have. Oh, sir, no go ahead um on that topic. If you.

E

Sh is shaded area around the pool, uh something that somebody likes. I haven't been to a pool in.

E

A long time um I assume some people like to sit in the sun. Some people like to shade some people like.

E

To go sit over on the grass some on the concrete or whatever's around um what, if you have the solar.

E

Panels like those ones that actually pervade, provide shade for cars that are power stations.

E

And what, if you had some of those- and it could be an educational moment for portsmouth people at.

E

The pool where they, um you know you maybe have a small bank of the panels on a diagonal, so they're.

E

Providing shade they're doing exactly what sam has suggested, maybe they're solar thermal too or.

E

uh Pv a combination of both, so you could heat the water uh of the pool yeah. It would be what you eat.

M

The pool is very cold, but I can tell you one thing you should know. Is that oak point um designed for.

M

Us two years ago, uh a completely new pool house, this pool house that you see to the far right.

M

um Was built in the well, it was built in early 50s. Was it not early.

N

50S or maybe late 40s, I mean it was yeah and it's it's in structurally, it's in a very, very rough.

M

Condition if we've been on the roof before and we literally go through the roof, it needs a complete.

M

It needs it needs a lot of work, we're maintaining it as it is, but there was a there was a design.

M

That we, we reached almost 75 percent completion in the design of a new pool house that had.

M

um That had all the modern amenities of a pool house for for visitors, and you.

M

Know, residents and there were locker rooms and shower rooms and so forth.

M

That would have been a great opportunity to heat water for showers and so forth, but the kind of.

M

The amount of power that we would need to generate to run these pumps is is very significant and we.

M

Would we would just never be able to produce that much solar power to run these pumps? um So when the.

M

Pool house eventually gets done. I I don't have a schedule for that for sure, because it's it's.

M

A multi-million dollar project we had to kind of put it on hold. That would be a great opportunity.

M

To add solar, hot water to the to all the showers, that would be a perfect application for that.

B

So so a lot of these ideas haven't been talked about. I know peter, have you been in on the planet.

B

I haven't in this one. I was involved a little bit when back when they were designing the pool house.

A

But I haven't been in the planning of this, so these don't there's no sustainable kind of aspect.

B

Of this, when you're discussing this well there, there are some things that are in a peripheral.

M

Way um um worthy of having a sustainable conversation, one is the the chemicals that.

M

We use now to treat the water to handle them and so forth. Are you know they're they're, more harsh.

M

Than than the way we're going to treat the water in the new systems, the the pumps are a lot more.

M

Efficient, the entire system will be a lot more efficient than the one we have. What we have now.

M

That's right, you might want to speak with that. Briefly. Sorry! Yes, so actually it's part of the.

N

Renovations and modern modernization of the the facilities right now that existing pump house is.

N

Very large sand filters in there. It's essentially that water goes through these sand filters.

N

And that's how the how the water is treated. Unfortunately, they tend to be very energy. You know.

N

Intensive and very water intensive we actually will be replacing with a regenerative media filter.

N

So use significantly less energy and the it will use a tiny fraction of the water that the.

N

The sand filters did again this. This media is used, you know continuously the water.

N

Every four to six weeks, this media is dumped and replaced, but at that point.

N

The only thing that's that's wasted is essentially the 700 gallons of water. That goes that goes out.

N

Of this tank so that that does go to some extent to address some of the energy and water concerns.

N

Versus what the what's the existing existing system has.

B

Been great if you could at least take these comments back, and maybe we should figure out.

B

Another way to have input, or whatever I mean it seems like some of that's already being discussed.

B

With sustainability but yeah and there's other ways to offset the use in other parts of the.

A

City and other areas, so it's not just here where the opportunities exist, yeah, it doesn't sound like.

A

There's a lot, maybe with the pool house, though I think that's a good comment to consider the.

A

Renewable energy potential on the pool house: it's a much bigger roof surface yeah. It is.

D

When a saltwater pool idea is like totally talking about the harsh chemicals and everything here,.

N

Absolutely so much better, but um I had questions about the trees cutting coming down and no.

B

Replanting of those trees we're not proposing to to replace any trees there. So can we ask for that.

B

um I think we would, I think we would be open to some some additional plantings. Unfortunately,.

M

To get the pump sorry yeah you get the to remove the pump house behind the buffer line. um We did.

M

Have to sacrifice a few trees and we went through trees and greenery to get that approved.

M

But uh there is, um there might be some selective believe it or not. There's there's a there's. There.

M

Are duct banks and electrical? uh You know duck banks traveling beneath uh the grass.

M

Area towards the pump house, so there's a there. There is a limited area on on that side. The fence.

M

To to do um any trees, but maybe on the other side I mean we could explore. We could explore something.

B

It's cutting down, it looks like maybe six or eight six six. I believe six. I think it's six yeah yeah.

M

And we worked with the city arborists to go out and tag them and and uh he identified them and.

M

Yeah they were presented to the greenery community.

D

Of trees, isn't it samantha yeah, just with the trees to to abigail's point that.

G

It is, it is nice to maintain shade, at least on part of the uh lawn area where people sit.

M

Yep understood yeah. Of course we try to keep the leaves out of the pool as well, but that's.

M

Minor compared to you know, the shade is valuable and the fewer trees around that that are closer.

M

To the pool the better, obviously they get they get in the into the system, but it's the roots.

B

um I had a question about this being a draft um and lots of sections missing um and maybe a little.

B

Bit of inaccuracies in there. Yes, this was again a draft we're still we're still actively working on.

N

This you know, there's some we've required some feedback from the des to complete some of these.

N

Sections so we're still actively working on this that we have not submitted this to the des. Yet.

N

So I don't there's any specific sections that you saw that are absent, that you had questions on.

B

No just that well just sort of like I might have questions on once they're in there kind of things.

B

Because it's sort of hard to know when you've got, um I think that there was resource information was.

B

Gone um the bmps erosion bmps, the trench, details elevation. Yes, so some of this was actually.

N

I worked with elizabeth oliver with normando associates and she had pulled this application.

N

Together, you know and when we submitted this, it was sort of unfortunately last minute so.

N

There's some additional coordination that needed to happen between normando and oak point, so some.

N

Of those comments you see in there actually are some of the things that that elizabeth identified.

N

And most of those are actually addressed in the drawings, so it just needs to be some coordination.

N

To to close out some of those narrative type questions before those are submitted to the.

N

Des moines, okay, thank you, allison yeah! No, uh in on one page, it says uh 425 in our packet. It says.

C

In consultation with the portsmouth conservation commission, it was determined no local.

C

Mitigation projects are currently available. I don't ever remember no, that's that's not correct.

N

Yeah, that was someone yeah. No, that's that's yeah! I! Yes, that's a correction that needs to be made.

N

Yeah there's there hasn't been any prior correspondence. Okay, thank you. Other questions or.

J

Yes, you can partially address this in the narrative, but I just the site is obviously.

J

So vulnerable to sea level rise, and I know you've got some taking some steps around the surge.

J

House, but I mean the pool itself, was there any conversation about elevating it yeah? Unfortunately,.

N

Not because right now, the pool elevation is approximately elevation, seven and a half which.

D

Is actually below it's right now, it's below the 100-year flood elevation, which is elevation 8.

D

So unfortunately, it's it's vulnerable to flooding. It will be continually, you know prone to flooding.

N

In the future, obviously, with sea level rise, it's it's potentially vulnerable, but it would just be.

N

Cost prohibitive to to reconstruct a facility of this size, it would be.

N

You know tens of millions of dollars to completely reconstruct this entire pool at a higher elevation.

N

We are elevating the pump house so the right now the existing pump house that finish floor is at.

N

The same elevation of the pool deck so that pump house is vulnerable to flooding, but the new pump.

N

House will be will be elevated up. You know two feet above the 100-year flood elevation to protect.

N

Those pool systems from flooding, so it will just be the pool itself- would be you know, subject to.

N

Flooding but the all the mechanical systems that are associated with that should survive a flood.

N

Event, you know there would need to be obviously cleaning and removal of sediment from the pool.

N

You know, and if there was some shoreline erosion that that would need to be need to be repaired.

N

But we envisioned that the pool again, the pool mechanicals you know- should survive a flood event.

E

If it'll be the salt water pool again, all the marines are going to make it a salt water pool.

M

It should be known that the the the new pool house design addressed that that.

M

Was significantly it was was raised and just as a historical note, um we did see evidence.

M

That the pool has the the river has overwhelmed the pool before it has happened. It's uh it filled.

M

The pool, um I think it was 76 73. yeah, it's probably winter time- is that true. What's that.

J

Is it in the winter time or the fall like a time when the pool is closed? Anyway, it was a blizzard.

A

I just want to add that um I told them to proceed with the draft, because they're trying to get.

A

Through the process and des permit can take a long time and rather than waiting, another.

A

Month to come back to the commission, they wanted to get. You know comments to des, but if there's.

A

Specific things that you think are missing or whatever, but I was hoping they could get.

A

A recommendation, at least through um from the draft which we've done in the past in terms of.

A

Getting the comments to des who ultimately has the decision making? Okay, but if there's specific.

A

Things you want them to bring back and report back on those or wherever you want to um how.

B

Do the commissioners want to proceed? Do you want to do a motion and then discuss or do we want to.

B

We've done that before it's an emotion either to postpone, or whatever I mean, I kind of see it as.

B

I you know there definitely would need to be some conditions in here.

B

If we were to prove it, but I'm not going to prove it, as is.

C

So, let's make a motion because you feel like it should be moved completely. Is that.

J

Your position well, I think that there are a lot of things that could be done.

C

That aren't being addressed here, and I think this is throwing money.

C

At a problem that ultimately isn't addressing the larger issues that we all face.

B

Postponing probably won't help that, though, no but at least we'll be able to see what it is that they.

C

Have left out, but in terms of the they're here to hear about the.

A

Impacts of the pool in terms of the wetland permit.

A

Not I mean it's not a policy policy decision, it's really about the impacts in terms of wetland.

A

Permit is what they're trying to get feedback on, and that's what the state's looking for.

E

Yeah, but isn't part of our mission not just to look at the I mean.

A

Well, I would say it's it's before you and base based on that. What's before you it's whether it's.

A

You know what you think: the interpretation of the state wetland permit would be in terms of policy.

A

I think there's different ways to go about how the city handles policy, but I don't necessarily think.

E

Yeah, I mean you know just looking at the close micro thing. You can go down a lot of bad roads.

E

By just saying well, this is only in our purview. It's like we, you know, sometimes people fizz well.

D

One needs to step back, even though and being a conservation commission. I know it's the.

E

We've got this small parameter, but the new hampshire conservation commissions are not.

E

So small- and I don't know why we have I I I need to do a deeper dive, but I'm kind of curious as to.

E

Why we have such limited um whatever? Is it really there or is it this limit? Are these limitations.

E

Have they've been sort of forced upon us and they're? Not really, you know, like somebody says.

E

Oh you're not supposed to do that, it's like oh well, maybe we are allowed to well. I guess it's.

A

In the ordinary, if you separate it in terms of the city's wetland permits and the state weather.

A

Permit they're two different things in terms of the city's wetland permits. You really are.

A

Restricted to what the ordinance allows and your job is to interpret the ordinance for the city.

A

And make a recommendation to the planning board in terms of the state wetland permit.

A

I think the role of the commission is to try to interpret the state regulations.

A

For in terms of how that permit's going to affect the city with your understanding of the state.

A

Permit regulations the state's going to ultimately decide based on their own regulations, just like.

A

You decide based on your own regulations on your wetland permits, but I think to go into whether a.

A

Pool should be built here or not or whether they should put solar panels on it. Those are things.

A

That are good policy, things that we should think about as a community, but they don't necessarily.

A

Fall in line with what the purview of a of a wetland permit or a state wetland permit are.

A

And that doesn't mean they're not important comments that to give to the people. But I guess.

A

In terms of the decision of whether it should be approved or not, I guess I feel like those should.

A

Be based on what the rules are around what people are asked of when they submit a wetland permit.

B

They do not have to come to us for a cep for this. They don't need a city wetland permit, because we.

A

Don't have a jurisdictional area in this part of the city right, so someone speaking from the.

B

Wetlands permit and the recommendations we make for approval or non-approval and the reasons we.

B

Give why they are totally totally confined to certain things that are even more strict.

B

Than ours, on their end of being able to deny something. So yes, you're talking about it, yeah yeah.

B

It's the legislature, and that comes up with that, and the rules are written.

B

And so we could make a recommendation, but well I'm just thinking like you know, allison's.

E

You know it's a historic pool, but it's like we can't hang on to history. If we're all going to.

E

Be underwater and hanging on to history I mean plenty of old wonderful buildings have been torn.

E

Down in downtown portsmouth because they want to put up something new, so I you know I honor.

E

The fact that it's got a history- and that's that's- really cool. I didn't know about that.

E

um But it's also like, but does it make sense to put a whole lot of money into repairing something.

E

That's so I'm not even just talking about the our jurisdictional thing, it's sort of like.

E

Is is you know no, but there are other avenues that we need to go down in order to address that.

C

Issue right- and this is not the place yeah, but the reason that I'm not going to vote for it is.

C

Because I feel it's incomplete, I can't say: what's not there because I don't know. What's not there. I.

C

Need to read it yeah and I'm not objecting. I mean, and I think there's misinformation by stating that.

C

The conservation commission said there was no area to mitigate, um they haven't put anything in there.

C

About trees, and although we can stipulate it, I still don't feel that it's a complete application.

N

Elizabeth did you want to expand on some of the missing items? Logic you have to come up. Sorry.

B

And just introduce yourself thanks.

O

Hello, I'm elizabeth oliver from normando associates. I'm the wetland specialist who's been.

O

Assembling this permit, I do apologize that this permit is not in a completed state. We did have.

O

To assemble this com, this permit rather hastily I do realize that perhaps a big glaring missing.

O

Item from this permit application is the resource information which I'm sure everyone has noticed.

O

Part of that is, I am not a certified wetland scientist as of yet I do not have a stamp.

O

The person who is certified, who delineate all these resources has been unavailable to assist.

O

Me with working this up, so I'm still waiting on getting information from him to complete this.

O

Permit application and given the short notice, I wasn't able to get him to to help me with that.

O

In terms of additional information, much of it is related to determining the.

O

Compensatory mitigation being sure that the arm fund payment will be accepted by nhdes.

O

I've had a great deal of difficulty, getting a hold of them on the phone and getting email responses.

O

And even talking about trying to coordinate a pre-application meeting, which we really should.

O

Do in this case, along with a site, walk, I'm just not getting much feedback or response.

O

So I apologize that the application is not more complete, but if there are.

O

Questions I would be very happy to try and answer them to the best of my ability.

O

And I do apologize that we had a comment in there regarding the conservation commission having no.

O

Ongoing projects are there, projects that might be occurring in the municipality that would qualify.

O

For something like this, there might be, but we don't have an opportunity to look at it. Okay,.

A

Well, the the impact is really removing the pool house and planting turf right. um Yes, that and also.

O

Putting in the outfall off the north side of the pool, which will involve installing a rip-rap apron.

O

On rocky shoreline- and that strikes me as a very specific impact that I would be- I don't know.

O

If there are likely to be projects that would come, I don't know if they could remove an outfall.

A

Or recommend removal of an outfall, usually they're, more putting them in to deal with.

A

Additional water restore one, maybe restore one yeah. That could be some restoration yeah, so I mean.

A

What's the time frame for getting this in, are you against up against the clock on other things or.

M

Yeah we've we've committed um we've committed to the community to not close the pool at all.

M

So the construction- this is a very significant construction project that requires to be. We have.

M

To build it, uh this work has to occur in winter conditions, so um you know the importance of the.

M

Pool remaining open is is paramount, so um the project is, um you know, 100 designed and ready to.

M

Go to bed, we want to get it out to bid uh uh the bidding environment right now, actually is looking.

M

Looking better than it did six months ago, um but then we have to we have to contract with.

M

Someone to start as soon as the pool closes so yeah that that's that's coming fast. It's coming.

M

Fast, it's a so the you know the winter months and then we are relying. We are, you know hoping.

M

To have that the winter isn't so severe that we have to bring in ground heaters, and you know.

M

So um yeah tough tough project with a tough window and tough conditions to build it. Yeah.

B

So the um and you're still trying to do like a pre-construction meeting.

B

So I mean we just had one that submitted it at the last minute to us that was in process with des and.

B

Was doing pre-construction seems like there's a way to do it in tandem a little bit.

B

Waiting for ours, our response.

O

Do you mean doing pre-construction application or or pre-application meetings.

O

Because you have to schedule those and you need to have a completed permit to schedule them. Ideally.

O

Right, but I think what barbara's getting at is the comments from the conservation christian.

A

Are part of the review process for des and it might be possible to postpone a month to get.

A

More complete information to this group and not hold you up in terms of the fact that you haven't.

A

Got a pre-construction meeting, yeah yeah! Okay! I mean they've done that before so I guess I'm just.

A

You know hearing what people are saying it looks like they want more information and.

A

Certainly, we thought it was a little further along. um That's probably my fault for saying: come ahead.

A

At this point, but I know you guys are eager to get it going and we've had projects that are.

A

Really close, they just need a few things, but the resource information is pretty key and.

A

I don't know it's, you know you get you risk having the commission not recommend approval.

A

Which isn't going to necessarily change the decision on des end? It's more.

A

How it's going to look or getting the full information and then having them, have the.

A

Full information in front of the commission to review it. I guess that's where we're at.

B

Anybody want to do a motion to allison I'll make a motion that we postpone.

C

The uh standard dredge and fill application for 99 pierce island road. What do you want? A second.

B

See him no second, I thought he saw sam's hand move. So that's why I did that.

B

Okay, any discussions. I think we discussed it. You guys know what you need to get back to us.

B

No yeah we'll certainly aim to try and have something ready for you guys by the next.

O

Conservation commission meeting- I would assume yes, yes, that is that is our plan.

O

Okay, all right, thank you all right um vote, roll call. Yep samantha wait. Can I can. I say one thing.

G

um Just to add uh that we get time to look at what potential.

G

Other projects we have in the city that we could use what would have gone to the arm fund for us.

G

I don't know if that's something peter looks at or they they look. I don't. I don't really know.

G

How that works, but I think that's a crucial part when they come back to. We could try to coordinate.

A

With that before they come back and then maybe see we're up yep. Okay, thank you all right. Roll.

D

Call vote sam, yes, jessica. Yes, lynn! Yes, abigail! Yes, alison! Yes, barbara! Yes,.

B

Motion passes, we had one more on our agenda. Thank you very much. Sorry. Thank you. um Much requested.

A

To postpone okay, I didn't know that yep sorry, I thought you were here, but I have it here. Oh you.

B

Didn't have any updated agenda yep! Sorry about that. Okay! Does uh somebody want to make a motion.

B

To this phone 3333, fourth recap I'll: make a motion that we postponed 333 forthwick avenue uh at the.

C

Permit holders or the permit requestees request I'll second, that a second fitted to the august.

B

Meeting to the august august meeting: oh uh sam, yes, jess, yes, glenn! Yes, yes, abigail.

D

Yes, barbara, yes and other business was um just to really really really.

B

Really quickly to report out that we got that we met, it was just sam.

B

Lynn, lynn, me and kate and ted, and we had a productive meeting right.

B

And sam volunteered to put together kind of a bit of a plan to look at what our objectives are.

B

And how we get to them, and we were going to focus on homeowners and um companies that do.

B

Yard work for organic care outreach. I don't know if you guys want to say anything else about sam or.

B

Anybody since sammy volunteered to do stuff yeah, I don't have anything.

G

To say about that, I I do have a one thing. I want to say about the pool. Okay, I'll just finish this.

B

One and then we'll go um so we're going to meet again on july 27th at 3 30.. um Whoever can come.

B

Wants to participate in this we're going to look at a draft that sam puts out and then discuss that.

B

And then discuss who else to include in this process- and I won't go into any more detail so.

B

All right, yes, sam, um I was just going to say now that we kind of have a month postponement on the.

G

Pool do we want, as a conservation commission, to write a letter? I don't know if it'd be the.

G

To the city council or the planning board just talking about more um sustainability.

G

Improvements to the pool.

J

Or even to the climate, whatever the sustainability committee is, I don't know if jessica you've got.

J

Anything yeah, I think, you'll be more of the council, because the antibody committee.

A

Wouldn't doesn't set policy yeah council? Yes, I think that would be a good suggestion just to.

G

Start making them think or encouraging people to start thinking about new projects. This way.

G

I liked your idea about solar panels. I I'm curious to know the cost piece of having salt.

G

Water pool versus chemical pool. Why, especially if the river is going to be flooding it anyway,.

E

Just make the jellyfish filter and you're good to go. Yeah different kind of jellyfish filter.

G

And into allison's point I mean if they're spending all this money.

G

To revamp this, have they even considered a different location right.

B

So do we draft a letter and then send a draft out to everybody or something or what's the best procedure.

D

Watch your painful yeah. I guess, however, you guys wanna. However, you guys wanna proceed. I.

A

Mean you kind of probably wanna. Do it it's hard to do it before the next meeting without having.

A

A meeting to review it, so you probably have to review it at the next meeting. I would think I.

C

Think that's too late. I think that we need to get it out immediately. I was planning on writing the.

C

Mayor myself, but if you want to draft something in the wall, I'll be glad you yeah, okay, draft.

C

Something and then send it to isaac and isaac can send it out yeah I was going to say: could we do.

E

It through email yeah. We can send the letter out through email in terms of what people think about.

A

It I think we might need to call a special meeting which we could do. Okay, um even next week, yeah so.

A

If you want, we can try to schedule that like do a zoom one, maybe or whatever yep we could do that.

A

We're gonna do it well, we can't do it by zoom if we have a quorum right.

J

We're gonna do a site visit anyway. I wonder if there's a way to combine all these.

J

Different things uh I'll think about that yeah, because it's in the field, though,.

C

Yeah, yes, make a motion that we adjourn.

D