City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Conservation Commission, 11 May 2022

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5.11.2022 Conservation Commission

A

Thank you, okay. I want to welcome everybody to the may 11 2022 regular meeting of.

A

The conservation commission, uh the first order of business, is.

A

uh Approval of the minutes, but I just wanted to announce that uh we have a new member who's on.

A

Zoom, I think, there's four members on zoom right now, so you're four yeah, let's see where they are.

B

um Whoops yeah, we have um lynn vaccaro.

B

A new member on zoom samantha collins is also on zoom. The co-chair and ted jankowski.

A

Thank you and um to let everybody know that um henry uh melinchak has resigned.

A

From the conservation commission, and that was effective immediately, uh he's gonna be.

A

Doing a lot of traveling and it's going to be hard for him to do any in-person.

A

Meetings and site visits so which is sad that we've lost him, but um so that said first order.

A

Of business will be the approval of minutes from april 13 2022.. Does anybody want to make a motion.

A

Anybody online a regular uh who's raising ted's got his head. He's got his hand done.

C

Oh I'll make a motion for the approval of the menace from the meeting of uh april 13th uh 2022.

A

And any discussion or comments.

D

No allison wasn't adam, so we're not going to get it from alice. We didn't have our.

E

Extremely good copy editor, but she wasn't at the meeting, but those guys are quiet.

A

And all right, so that being said, all those in favor approval closed captioning, not.

C

In the minutes not available, okay, do you want to state them sure.

C

The second paragraph, on page eight.

C

It says mr jankowski commented that this was a discussion they should have. It is their mission.

C

By state law and city ordinances, it says here to protect city water, but instead of to protect.

C

City, water, I believe what I said was for the protection of natural and water resources.

D

Thank you. Okay, that's the only change. I have okay, all right so we'll.

A

Do a all those in favor again with the change anybody opposed and one abstention from.

A

Allison so um since we have zoom people, how do we have to do the votes now.

E

We're supposed to do a roll call, okay, all right! So do you want me to do it for the minutes.

B

I guess so: okay, if we're going to follow the law, we've got to it. Thank you. Yes, sorry. I just.

B

Yeah, all in favor abigail, uh yes, allison, barb stain fire breath. Yes, yes, mika sam.

F

Yes, ted, yes and lynn abstains. Probably oh I'm staying there. He wasn't there yep, okay, so allison.

A

Okay- um and then I wanted to add for voting since we do lin- is a voting member, um but.

A

I think you're not going to be voting today right, would that be correct, okay, so mika and.

A

Abby, you guys are okay with voting today I did the math right. You guys should both be.

A

Voting. Okay. Great. Thank you. Thank you. So, uh second item on the agenda is the wetland conditional use.

A

Permit old business and it's 333 borwick avenue is forthwick avenue. Is anybody here to speak to that.

B

uh We have so we have attendees here chris acres, I'm gonna allow to like I'm gonna allow to talk.

B

And then he's got someone here as well. Chris, can you hear us yes good afternoon? Can you hear me.

B

Yeah you've got two, but that's okay. As long as we can hear you, I guess we're good right. Okay,.

G

Am I on video or just audio um right now, you're just on audio, but if you need to show yourself.

B

I can I can do that. Okay, I'm just going to make sure I went on camera. If I need to turn my camera.

G

On or not so thank you, okay, um yeah, thank you for um everyone. Taking the time this afternoon to let.

G

Us present on the um radiation oncology edition project to the portsmouth regional hospital.

G

It's a one-story on building edition located on the southeast corner of the existing hospital.

G

And due to this building expansion, um the the um addition will actually um be.

G

Located within the 100 wetland buffer and slightly encroaching directly into the wetlands themselves,.

G

As part of a package we um had submitted on, we have a nice color graphic and again I can.

G

Get to that and um show that on my screen, if that would be helpful, let's see here. Let me I.

B

Think I got to promote youtube panelists. Let me get to that. We're going to push the technology.

G

Here so everybody be patient if you would and then you should be, I think do I have to allow.

G

Okay, I'm going to say join his panelist.

B

He was a panelist yep and then I think you might be able to share now. Do I have to.

B

B

I want to allow them to share.

F

Are you recording peter? Oh, I guess a panelist can just share.

B

Yeah we are so let me know when you see my screen, we can see it now, chris. Thank you, perfect. Okay,.

G

Wonderful, okay, so what we have um is the building expansion itself. I'll just do this in the cloud.

G

You see it's kind of this irregularly shaped building, there's a reason for that. We're trying.

G

To avoid the 300 foot wide eversource electrical easement, so this building edition kind of looks.

G

Something like this and we try to do a nice, color coding to show the actual.

G

um Permanent disturbance in the wetland is just this tiny little sliver right here.

G

As well as a little bit of a sliver right here, we also know that the contractor has to physically.

G

Get back here to construct this these additions, so we do show a temporary.

G

um Disturbance into the wetlands in this green area and the blue areas, where we're showing to.

G

Expand the pond that will allow us to provide more um wetland area back in its place, um so.

G

We had a little table up here. They kind of tried to show some of the square footages. You can see.

G

The permanent wetland disturbance is very minimal only about 200 square feet and the temperature is.

G

Around 400 square feet and we're proposing to add about 1150 um of some wetland area.

G

So we're hoping that was some. You guys would kind of realize that that was hopefully.

G

A somewhat decent trade-off here to to do away with this a little bit here.

G

And here but then add a bunch back over here and we've also run stormwater calculations to.

G

Show that the um this pawn will actually detain um slightly a little bit more water than is now.

G

So that's good news, um so we're actually going to increase the pond volume itself as well, so trying.

G

To do a little give and take there and that was presented. um I guess this is on page 11 of 39. If.

G

You have your your ipads if you're looking at that this is this: the documents page 11 of 39.

G

And going back to the earlier part of the um the narrative we kind of showed them.

G

Roughly the same areas talking about the um the 200 square feet.

G

4 400 square feet the total disturbance of 4 600 square feet and then on the next page. This.

G

Is page 3 of 39 kind of showing some calculations and existing pond volume and proposed pond volume.

G

And I believe I read on where the staff report recommended them approval with two. um I guess.

G

Technical conditions, one of those providing some plantings back for those areas, so we can.

G

We can coordinate according with gum, with go of environmental. Earlier today, we've got some.

G

Ideas for some plantings that can be put back in this area in the blue, as well as back in the.

G

Area in green, the cattails will kind of take over this area. Here we have some opportunity in these.

G

Side slopes to plant some, some native strawberry, maybe a tree or two here and there and I think, a.

G

Maintenance plan was also a condition crew, which we can work on the maintenance plan as well.

G

So there's photos included in the narrative, there's all kinds of detailed documents, design.

G

Documents um that we can kind of go over as well um lots and lots of pages. So hopefully we didn't.

G

Overwhelm everybody with all this information, but here's the existing conditions and some things.

G

We're going to demolish um basically here's. We have erosion control plans again trying to protect.

G

The project during construction um and just lots and lots of detail information. Here's an overall.

G

um Maybe this will help you understand exactly where this is: here's the overall hospital itself.

G

And again we're down here on the southeast corner for this, um for this building expansion down here.

G

And boardwalk avenue is along the bottom of the page main hospital entrance being here. So if.

G

You've been in the hospital before, hopefully that helps you identify where this project is located.

A

A

So, do you have anything else to report out on.

G

um I don't think so, just um just make sure everybody has any questions again. Lots of.

G

Information I draw calculations, exhibits color, exhibits um again photos of what um the wetlands.

G

Look like right now, um I'll zoom in a little bit, that's kind of a picture of what they.

G

Look like now here on this corner: here's where the building edition is going to go.

G

um Again more photos back over here again, the building edition is going to go right here.

G

And this is kind of stepping further back again. The building edition is going along the front kind of wrap around this corner right here, and this photos were just taken.

G

A couple weeks ago, and I was up there for the board of adjustment meeting okay, okay, thank you.

A

Any questions at this point allison: um what time of year were you anticipating, starting this.

G

I believe they um would like to start construction this summer um we obviously have to go through the.

G

Attack and the um planning board still in june, but I think the goal would be to start.

G

This on the summer to try and get as much as done as they can before the weather turns.

F

Right I just wanted to mention that there was a mallard nesting out in that area, pretty regularly.

F

And so you know, starting it after the mother and babies have left is probably a good idea. Okay,.

A

Thank you, yes, um that there's a new addition on that end of the building, and this edition.

E

Would go on to that and I'm just curious as to why you they didn't do a three-story edition.

E

In you know like put another story on that edition and architecturally it would have matched the.

E

Other end, too, why um is it because they thought of it later or what is there a reason over why they.

E

Didn't go up instead of out sure that project. um That's this recently completed was a medical.

G

Surge icu um step down basically beds on the second floor. This project is for.

G

Radiation and oncology so there's what's called a linear accelerator and I'll try and find a.

G

A representation of that here just a second um and try and share that with you. It's basically a very.

G

Expensive piece of equipment: that's used to treat cancer patients and that's that's located on the.

G

First floor and that's why, on this addition is not another third floor, it kind of works best if it's.

G

On the ground level, so it can be maintained there on and it's basically located next to the existing.

G

Imaging department which is basically right here- this is all the imaging department and it's going.

G

To expand to the front and on the side, so it's not something I think that could be put on the third.

G

Floor, it's it's a completely different type of use. Okay, and I guess, um if you're there, I guess.

G

Matt, if you want to speak towards that, I think that's, that's probably the best explanation.

E

Okay, could you just, could you just come up and introduce yourself please.

B

Somebody can hear you thanks a lot hi. This is matt larkin, the chief operating officer at fort smith,.

H

uh Just to expand a few seconds on on the question you had the foundation for radiation oncology is.

H

A large cement foundation, so the weight of it wouldn't be able to go above one. Second, on the.

H

Second floor: that's the on the third floor. That's the main purpose for it being on attached to the.

H

Current radiology department and and when you, um uh when you built, was the foundation already.

E

There, or was that part of the new construction of that sort of we're gonna have to build that.

H

In the plan for the radiation oncology suite that we're asking for approval for today, okay, so.

G

Okay, so hopefully this will help kind of explain: here's the architectural floor plan of this and.

G

Right here is this very, very expensive piece of equipment called linear accelerator. It has.

G

Thickened four foot walls to prevent radiation from exiting the room as you're getting treatment.

G

um Different types, you can see all the different types of equipment. So that's.

G

That's kind of why this is where it is. We explain that to the board of adjustment too, why? Why we're.

G

Building this here and there's a whole list of reasons being that the easement on the election.

G

Easement and and the proximity to the existing um imaging- this is an mri. That's there right now.

G

um So, there's a reason why this is kind of shown where it is and why it wasn't done against the.

G

Previous project, okay and I kind of missed what you said what's currently there now uh couldn't.

E

Be moved to the third floor. Is that what you said to is that never mind? I believe, that's correct.

G

This like this, this is an mri machine here, has magnets, okay, shielding that those types of things.

G

Don't really typically go on much much higher floors unless it's structurally designed for that.

G

I don't believe this hospital is designed for that structurally, I just didn't catch it. Auditorily.

E

I have another question: yeah um go ahead and make that yeah. So um thank you for the presentation. I.

I

Have a question about plantings and maybe there's a page you can direct me to, but I was just looking.

I

At c2.00 the site demolition plan and it shows all the shrubs and trees that are being removed.

I

And I was just is: is: is there a page about the plantings that are going to be put in.

I

To make it right, that's one of the conditions that was, I guess, added by um by the staff, and we will.

G

We will we will basically draft a plan that shows all those plantings. It's not it's not prepared.

G

Just at the moment, I did speak with um brendan walt walden here at the environmental who helped.

G

Us with the delineation of these wetlands a couple years ago and he's offered some suggestions for.

G

Plantings to put in some native species for trees and shrubs, and then there will be another plant.

G

Will be drafted to show the location and quantity of those zombies drawings for those plantings.

B

Yes, I I don't know if christopher dumont that looked like he raised his hand, do.

B

You have a question christopher. Are you part of this presentation.

G

Yes, he's, though, he's architect um he's the approach architect, project, okay,.

A

Does he have anything to say I guess I he had his hand raised chris.

B

Acres um a minute ago, maybe he was just I don't know.

D

No, no, I guess not: okay, okay, okay,.

D

Okay, I am I've, got a few, you can interrupt me. Okay, do you have somebody you're all set christopher.

B

Dumont, yes, I am I'm sorry, my apologies, I, whatever my apologies. um What I was trying to help matt.

D

Matt uh matt and chris a regarding the structure of the original building. It was only designed it.

D

Was only designed to take one floor and when our firm took on the project for the second floor.

D

We had to go back and re-reinforce the structure to have the ability to even take.

D

A second floor so for us to put anything on the third floor would have been structurally import.

D

Structurally not possible, but I just wanted to add to that for to answer the woman's question.

D

Regarding the structure, that's all. Thank you. Okay, thanks go ahead, I didn't mean that question to go.

E

So many different directions, um so um the sidewalk that goes in that's on the street side of pond one.

E

There's a drainage thing and a fire hydrant and they're set quite far back away from the sidewalk.

E

And I was wondering why they're so far back because that pushes the the what the the pond.

E

Pushes pond one closer to the building, so I was wondering I just was curious was what was the.

E

Reasoning, for you know dpd. You know whoever public works to put a fire hydrant so far away from the.

E

Street, does anybody have you guys dealt with these this project? I mean this site before with anything.

E

To or do the engineering are you speaking of this hydrogen here on the screen? Is that what you're.

G

Speaking of online uh yeah, it's on borethwick and it's set back probably 10 feet from the sidewalk.

G

There's also a fire department connection here too, so we previously coordinated with the fire marshal.

G

About this fire department connection and there's an existing fire pump room located.

G

Inside the building here and then the current plan is to leave the fire pump room alone and.

G

There's a there's, a water line that kind of goes around the perimeter of this to feed this fire.

G

Department connection and is within so many feet of our hydrant. um That hydrant was there.

G

Prior to the previous project that was recently constructed, and so I'm not sure exactly when it.

G

Was installed but it's been there for quite a while. I would understand so that really this.

G

Hydrogen has not been modified with the previous project or the currently proposed project.

E

Okay, so we're not proposing to modify anything along this this this on the sidewalk over here.

G

At all, that's kind of being left, as is yeah, it's a lot of lawn, so I was thinking well. It.

B

Would be nice if it might have something to do with other utilities in the road? I see a gas line out there as well. So I guess there's gas lines, there's all kinds of yeah.

E

So um I just have two questions more one is on.

E

It's the new page 14.. I don't know what it is on. Everybody on on the engineering pages.

E

um But it's in the first couple of pages: uh it's on, I think page, two of the kind of introductory.

E

um Yeah you've got the the chart that opens up the package and then the second page.

E

um You talk about um a previously man-made storm water management area, which is now designated.

E

As a city, jurisdictional, uh inland wetland and and it goes on and then you say a small.

E

Amount of disturbance to the actual wetland is being proposed, so is that the wetland across the.

E

Street, where it's the wetland that we're talking about in pond one? Because it seems as if you.

E

Just you have a different definition of like the maid wetland versus the actual, but I don't know.

E

So I was, could you okay um so again the only the only true permanent disturbance.

G

Is this brown shaded area here and here? Okay, that's what I thought I just want to make sure.

E

That's it yeah. Okay, we're not, I hope, no we're not proposing anything across. Fourth. Look over there.

G

That nothing over there. It's only on this side, and only along these, the um northern.

G

Portion of this pond here, okay, like yeah and so on that photo that's my this is my last question.

E

um The walls of the building kind of stopped right, where the new wetland is so how's that.

E

Working is that am I reading that correctly. So um let me let me might be the next one down even.

E

I'm, I guess that's it so so this building, basically from here and all these stair stepping.

G

To avoid the the electrical easement, this building, basically on the way function as a retaining wall.

G

Will extend down to to natural grade but will be a brave retaining wall. So the finished floor up.

G

Here this building is basically 27.8 and there are some spot shots of 22.3 22.5, so it'll be.

G

Almost a five foot wall along this edge right here in some cases and then we're gonna we're going to.

G

Push straight, as you see the grade kind of goes against the short wall here, but a portion of this.

G

Will be about a five foot wall, oh okay, so where the brown is that actually I mean where that ends.

E

And the green starts, that is that's where the the retaining wall is and the mil and the pond starts.

E

From the wall out, okay, yes, ma'am all right and we've, according with.

G

The structural engineers and that's been designed. Accordingly, it's been waterproof.

D

Okay, okay, it will be waterproof. It's designed to.

G

Be waterproof, let's put it that way: yeah, okay, okay! Thank you. Samantha.

J

Yeah, just to get back to the um the foundation of the proposed building.

J

Expansion will that be able to support um upper stories. If you know portsmouth hospital.

J

Needs future development areas, you're kind of running out of space to go horizontally now.

G

Chris, do you want to try to speak towards that? I believe the answer is no.

D

um Actually, the front portion has been designed to take on additional floors um where chris.

D

Where mr akers showed where the equipment is located, since it does.

D

Have radiation um and it needs shielding those items. That area is not designed to take on any.

D

Full any additional floors and the reason for that is because the equipment that's there.

J

Okay, so that makes sense part of it could potentially take on.

J

Additional floors, correct, okay, I think chris. I guess that would be um basically this area.

G

Along here, right, yeah, the front that that front portion up there right right. Okay, thank you.

G

Yeah, that's basically, I know it's rotate, 90 degrees. That's basically this area here, yep.

A

Oh, can I thank you yeah. I don't think we have any others yet right. I don't think so. Yes,.

E

I just want to say thank you for the extra drawings that we got. I don't know.

E

But they they were very helpful and that answered a lot of my questions before.

E

Coming to the meeting so yeah we we figured color exhibits, always paints the picture literally so.

G

Hopefully I hope they were helpful to you, so thank you.

A

um Yes allison. Thank you. Thank you. um So chris, I was also wondering you said.

F

That you were going to put in some uh no sort of native plantings along the pond.

F

And um I was also wondering if you were going to have a maintenance plan.

F

For the pond, yes, that's another condition that the staff recommended. So we will.

G

Drop the maintenance plan that the hospital can follow to maintain this area. Thank you.

A

Yeah I had the same question: oh go ahead too. Well, I don't know if my question is.

I

Better for discussion, uh but it is a question about the wetlands. um So if this is something.

I

Better discussed afterwards, you can, let me know, but I I had um two points. One is.

I

Number three: on the memo that you open with, um where you say that the value of this wetland is.

I

Primarily for storm water retention, I just wanted to kind of ask the question: if, if that's how we're.

I

I mean I, I think this is more. A language question in terms of um the wetland is.

I

Has many more significant aspects, not just stormwater, though stormwater is important, so.

I

um I just wanted to flag that um for discussion, but in also related to that, in terms of the.

I

Long-Term expansion of the hospital and this the question that my colleagues asked about the.

I

Expansion um is something that I think is worth discussing, especially if being near wetlands.

I

Over time, you can't get too heavy right, there's there's a problem for engineers and I think.

I

This might be um just in terms of engineering. Is this the ideal spot for.

I

An expanding hospital so again that might be something that is outside of our question, but.

A

Yeah yeah so not really a question for the application. Well, I mean I don't know anything to.

D

Address that yeah- and I guess in terms of overall with engineers, are they making recommendations.

I

Not to build on wetlands, especially big projects, long-term, if that's an ideal spot, do you want to.

A

Address that all from the applicant's point of view before we well almost screen really quick.

G

And I can certainly let if matt wants to speak to that or chris, but um this red line basically is.

G

The edge of the existing eversource threatened to put electrical easement, so you can see the.

G

Building is stepping back and really, if you go to the overall drawing this overall campus.

G

This easement kind of does this. It takes basically almost the entire furniture away from the hospital.

G

As far as buildable and usable land, which is why the building is set so far back this corner really.

G

It was identified as about the only place we could actually do an addition.

G

And still stay on the other source, easement.

G

And we that's part of the board of adjustment. Question too, is: why are we building here and.

G

That's the main, really location is also on its proximity to the existing imaging equipment.

G

As well as this large swath of land, that's basically on development. At this point in time,.

A

And I guess I had a follow-up to that too, is just because you are right in the middle of.

A

This wetland, um the parking lot, is, uh I think, there's another parking garage area nearby.

A

But is there potential planning on that end at all to change the parking to be use that area.

G

The parking located along the front yeah well, unfortunately, that's in that 300 foot.

G

Electrical easement, so you cannot put a building structure in that easement.

G

That's why all this land right now is, as far as building a physical structure, underneath this.

G

Is not possible. This particular point in time. Okay um and I had an additional question.

A

A little bit just to clarify that you are replacing or doing more plantings and at this.

A

Point we don't know what those plantings are. Is that correct um alex? I spoke with um brendan with.

G

Go environmental earlier um I find let me search for a we had some suggestions. I can share those.

G

With you here in just a second, because I'll find that it'll take me about a second to get there.

D

Let's see here um here we go, um we talked about plantings such as high bush, blueberry.

G

Dogwoods or other native um similar species, so we.

G

Mentioned um native plantings, including high blood, high bush, blueberry and dogwoods.

G

And again that does just to start the discussion, so we will get deeper into that.

G

That's some ideas that were passed around this morning.

A

So you would have the details for the planning board, then yes, and what you're planning? Oh, yes,.

A

My last question, for me is just um maybe you can educate me on this. What are synthetic hay, bales.

G

Basically, that's an irish control measure that that, um instead of having hay bales, it.

G

Can break down over time they kind of include different material and they're wrapped using.

G

Like a filter fabric and last a little bit longer than just some hay bales that don't disintegrate.

G

Much more rapidly see if I can find a detail for that. Basically, I guess they're also called erosion.

G

Control heels, I guess they kind of look like this yeah. It was under the reversion control so.

B

Are they synthetic in that they use something other than hay or use something like plastic.

B

G

I think it's a combination of things. I don't think it's all.

G

Okay, I'm sorry there's another detail. Sorry.

G

See here we go.

B

Good. Thank you. Peter yeah,.

G

I'm not sure the exact making material- I don't think it's plastics, so to speak. It's just.

G

um Something that's a little bit more manageable for the contractor to stake in the ground.

G

And not just have hay bales that you can break down quickly. I have to have to do some more research into the exact um makeup of those.

I

Would it be safe to say that since they're designed for erosion control that they're.

I

Designed with not being well the environment and yes, they're designing with the environment.

G

In mind, that's correct, yes, you're right! That would defeat the purpose of putting something.

G

Right out to the damage, the whole purpose is to protect the environment, yeah, okay,.

G

I'll make a note of that, though, so I just know that for future reference.

A

Other questions, I think sam has another one samantha.

J

Yeah, so if, if we do approve with the stipulations of um there being a planting plan and.

J

A maintenance plan for the pond is that something that they'll work with you peter.

J

On because we're not gonna see it again, then, um and and in discussion, can we kind of give.

J

What we're looking for in those plans and you'll kind of work with them to make it.

J

What we're looking for that would be helpful yeah. I thought that you know something beyond.

B

Herbaceous vegetation, some kind of shrubs for the planting plan and then for the maintenance.

B

Just to make sure they, you know, take a look at it every every year and it's doing okay and they.

B

Replace whatever needs to replace, so that's what I was thinking but yeah anything you want to add.

B

To that I can review it before planning board and give you know, give the planning director my input.

J

Okay, I'll, I have some comments then, but I'll wait until um discussion.

A

Okay, great, thank you. Anybody else.

D

Nobody else I don't oh wait did was that lynn, yeah lynn's got a guy okay when.

A

I was just curious at this site: do you do you have trouble with.

A

With flooding like do these, these stormwater ponds, do they overflow during large events or.

G

I guess maybe answer towards the I'm not going to wear any flooding, but no.

H

I just walked to the podium chris; uh no, we don't have any. We have no.

H

Flooding in that that area of the campus at all that would bother us.

D

But in some parts of the campus I mean it is a tricky spot right, surrounded by.

D

By wetlands we not not any longer, we had a little bit of wetlands on the right hand, side of it, but.

H

That was all corrected as well, so right now we're in really good shape with flooding. It's funny.

A

Thank you, okay. I think the road is slanted toward the wetland area on the.

F

Opposite side of the street too, I could be wrong but yeah. It is somewhat super.

G

Elevated to go towards the wetlands over the boardwalk, if that's what you're, referring to.

A

Okay, no other questions or comments. um Does anybody want to make a motion.

A

Allison I'll make a motion that we recommend approval of this application with the stipulations.

F

That uh there be a planting plan in place and a maintenance plan in place for this pond area.

A

And have it reviewed by city staff, yes, reviewed and approved.

A

Okay, anybody want to second with those conditions.

C

Can I add to that or friendly motion, yeah or friendly addition to the motion? Okay,.

C

Can we ask for nova standards for for uh maintenance of the property.

A

You can ask: what kind of standards is that? Well, we have we've had so many applicants come before.

C

Us in recent years, and the concern is the location that you have and the wetlands and the sensitivity.

C

Of the watershed around you, so there's a uh an outfit called the the well-regarded uh northeast.

C

Organic farmer, association, nofa and they have accreditations and teach all the courses on.

C

Organic land care and they have a manual that's out there. It's like we have three.

C

Standards either they're preferred or okay or not. You know it's really easy to follow. We've had so.

C

Many applicants that have come before us and they come back for another meeting and they look at the.

C

Standards and say yeah no problem. In fact, now we have some applicants when they come in and.

C

Say they plan on using uh you know organic land management practices to maintain their property.

C

We'd be happy to get you the standard and all that stuff.

A

Okay, alison, do you want to add that to your motion, sure, okay, so seconded.

A

First and seconded with the three stipulations: do we need to go over that again or everybody good.

D

I think we're good okay, any questions all right, discussion.

A

Yes, my actual problem with this is not knowing what the synthetic material is.

F

That's uh supposed to not degrade immediately, but what are we going to be adding to the environment.

F

I'd really like to know that, um can I suggest you add a stipulation that the synthetic material be.

B

Natural material, instead of synthetic, you can say that I think cause they could use a real hair.

D

Bills or they could use silk socks or something like that. Absolutely okay, it's a concern. I think.

B

It's something you could add. Okay, your emotion, so I'd like to uh add to that motion that they're.

F

Not being the hay bales not be synthetic but be made of a natural material that erosion control.

B

That's just jesus okay and I guess actually I'm zach he's on the call with me.

G

He works with me, he's saying we're not even using these anymore, we pulled them off the drawing so.

G

I guess it's a detail that was that remains on the drawings, but I guess.

G

We're not really physically shown to show those anywhere. According to what he's saying.

G

But we can still put that on there. I guess we're trying to put that on. Okay, so we'll.

A

Just keep the condition on there just in case so that erosion controls be natural materials. Yes,.

A

Okay and ted, are you okay? We second, that with your second uh uh question, can we just require.

C

A bales be used rather than natural or whatever. Why not just require hay bales? I wouldn't they're.

B

Not always the best some people say, but I'll leave that to you guys yeah I mean I wouldn't suggest.

A

That, because I think that there are certain situations that they don't work that well.

A

And this might be one of them they're, not the number one recommended erosion control, samantha.

J

uh It's not on the topic of hay bales so for we're still talking about hay, bales.

J

We can continue the tables okay.

I

Related to that perhaps maybe part of the stipulation about organic processes etc can be.

I

Something in the language that any of the erosion control, plantings, etc, um be both best standards.

I

Best practices and not harmful to the wetlands in any way is that a way to cover all of that.

A

Yeah I mean I it's, I don't know if we want to be quite that uh tie it in with the.

A

That the nofa standards kind of thing, maybe because well not not their standards, but that.

I

For erosion control, you said that hay bales aren't best practices so.

I

uh You know, assuming that we're going to maybe request that no we're we're just saying a natural.

F

Material and there are other materials out there that are natural that are used.

F

For erosion control like the uh the coconut fiber and there yeah there's quite a few.

A

Yeah, I'm good with the natural material. If everybody else is okay with that.

B

Are you okay with that as a second ted? Yes, yeah? Okay, yes did he say? Yes, he dotted yep. Okay, yes,.

A

I can't see him all right. Oh sorry, yeah, that's right and so now.

A

Samantha, so we got a first and second go ahead. Samantha. Is that a question? Okay? So um my point.

J

Was just looking at some of the photographs um that are presented in the application.

J

It looks like the area around kind of on all sides of the pond wetland area is, is quite manicured. I.

J

Think they mow right down to the edge. You know they're mulching around the trees, um and I just.

J

In the planting plan, I would love for that to be uh more natural, have a lot more of the native.

J

Planting shrubbery in that area, and then I think maybe even I don't know if that would be also part.

J

Of the maintenance plan for the wetland pond is to maybe not mow down right to the edge. um Those are.

J

Just some of the things that I'd like to see in both of those uh plans, just what I was thinking.

A

It's awesome, so we will instruct city staff to basically yeah okay.

E

That's good yeah, there's a there's a lot of graphs there like that's why I was asking about the drain.

E

And the thing because it's like this doesn't need to be this um on a side note with all of.

E

This, where I mean I know we're talking about um you, know the environmental aspect, but um when you.

E

Go past the hospital at any time when breaks might be taken by the workers they are all. There are so.

E

Many out we're walking the sidewalks and I think if we can make sure that we keep it a habitat for.

E

Non-Human critters it might, it might be nice for sort of everyone involved.

E

There for those people who are day in day out in those situations, so I know it's a side note, but.

E

um And not under our purview, but um so I was glad to hear about the blueberries and dogwoods and.

E

Things like that, because I think that and there's a lot. I just um also um there's a quite a bit of.

E

Litter in the other little ponds- and um I was just wondering if clearly nobody is cleaning those out.

E

And I was wondering, if that's a stipulation that could go into the maintenance for these ponds as.

E

Well, as the other ponds, um you know, they're like compound bucket lids and all kinds of crap um and.

E

I just feel like yeah, okay, well and related to. If, if I may, that campuses that have gone to native.

I

Plantings and have really invested in the overall environment. The workers are happier the overall.

I

Situation is better and there's a lot of wonderful models out there. um So you know this area. That's.

I

There could it's already look a lot better and be healthier just with different plantings.

A

Thank you. Those are all apply to you. Probably sorry, peter okay, make a note.

A

Of it, that's good with everybody yep, that's good, good recommendations; okay, anything else.

B

Make sure that lynn doesn't have anything nope nobody's got that I have one more thing.

D

Samantha, I think that is yep go ahead, samantha, uh just I guess kind of for future development.

J

At the hospital um you know I feel like it might be at the point where we got to start considering.

J

Moving some things away from that main campus, if there's additional departments that need.

J

To be built just because it is it's completely surrounded by the easement for one you're right.

J

That's really tricky, but it's got. You know the wetlands on all sides, so just kind of coming.

J

Into that mindset of having me expand the campus, but not in that very specific location. That's it.

E

Okay, thank you yeah. I.

E

I am, I was thinking about that too, and it was like how did they get that stuff built? I was wondering.

E

When that was built, because it's like that's like one of the worst places to put the building.

E

And all of the medical stuff that has expanded out from it. But.

E

um And now that it is expanding, it seems like that's an invitation for them to put.

E

Buildings elsewhere too, it was in the 80s, and they made a lot of deals with the.

F

All the boards involved in order to get there they wanted to be seen from 95. We got.

F

This hospital hill um there was a whole bunch that went into it. Okay, yeah, we didn't think, is.

E

That it was, I figured one of you guys, knew the history of it. Okay, a little before my time, yeah.

E

um They were talking about flooding. um I know on the other side of the building, the one that.

E

Has like the white top third story, that side of the parking lot has a lot of flooding um like in.

E

The winter, when snow, kind of jams up and just a thought, the hospital might want to do something.

E

And have it maybe not drain right out into the um the uh you know, wetlands, that's on the other.

E

Side or something I don't know, but as a person who is going there regularly visiting somebody.

E

um It was really problematic, so I don't know: if did that, get solved when it did? Okay, all right.

E

I'll be quiet now, okay, um so we have a motion with three stipulations.

B

uh Four, I think four yep, okay, the the plantings, um the maintenance plan, the nofa standards.

B

And erosion control are natural materials. All right sounds good.

A

Everybody want to have a vote. If there's no more discussion, um you do roll call call so.

B

um Lynn, are you going to abstain or vote on this one? I think she's abstaining she's going.

F

To be screaming, yeah I'll abstain, yeah, okay, just check-ins um mika; yes, abigail, yes, allison, yes, ted.

D

Ted? Yes, did you say? Yes? Yes, okay, sorry, yes, yep got it. Okay, sam! Yes, I'm barbara! Yes, okay,.

A

Promotion passes. Thank you very much. Thank you so much everyone for all your your reference on this.

G

Thank you very much. You care, I guess I'll, stop sharing here, peterson great thanks thanks chris.

B

Thank you, okay. um Our next item on the agenda is the wetland conditional use permit new business.

A

And we have 329 heritage ave if you want to speak to your application and introduce yourselves.

B

um Let me see I gotta, let's see.

B

Do we want jake and michael right? Yes, I made them panelists, so they can speak as well.

B

um And then do they have the presentation they do? Yes, okay, so is it jake or michael? um If you.

B

Have a presentation to share you should be able to share it now, if you can't, let me know, and I'll.

K

Yes, I have a the presentation up right now. Let me just navigate to the to the share.

F

Yep, can everyone see my screen? Are they going to introduce themselves um yeah? Can you guys.

B

Introduce yourself, of course, good afternoon, thank you for letting us come before you today. My name.

H

Is tyler reese? I am an associate engineer with the city of portsmouth department of public works.

H

I am joined by zachary cronin, the assistant city engineer at the department of public works.

H

And we are joined online by mike terrio and jake chapman from wright pierce. Our contractor.

H

um Just an agenda of what we're going to be going over today, we're going to look at we.

H

Just had our introductions we'll be looking at our project, location and the need for.

H

This new pump station, we will be reviewing the existing conditions and the site demolition plan.

H

And we will be reviewing project impacts, we will leave you with our contact information.

H

And at this point we would like to turn it over to wright pierce.

D

Thank you great. Thank you so much um so as um as you as mentioned, uh wright pierce,.

K

Was contracted by the city to complete the design and permitting of the new pump station.

K

um Before we get into the proposed impacts, the 100 foot, wetland buffer.

K

Just wanted to show the project location here for context, so the pump station is located.

K

On heritage avenue it heritage ave if you're not familiar, spend between route, 1 and banfield road.

K

The pump station is necessary to convey sewage within the city's sewage collection system.

K

And the existing pump station is outdated and in need of replacement, so the new pump station.

K

Will benefit the city by improving reliability, accessibility and safety.

K

So the slide here shows our existing conditions and site demolition. The.

K

Existing conditions, as shown, shows, shows the existing pump station in place with the existing.

K

Generator and shed, which will all be removed and demolished as part of the proposed project.

K

And then here we have our impact figure. So, as mentioned, the impacts are located within the 100.

K

Foot wetland buffer, there's a prime wetland and, as shown here, this was delineated by our wetlands.

K

Consultant mark jacobs, there are no direct impacts as part of this project and the temporary impacts.

K

Are shown in green, they include removal and demolition of the existing pump station.

K

And that will remove 220 square feet of impervious area also, the temporary impacts include.

K

Area for pipe insulate, pipe insulation and and access for the contractor.

K

The permanent impacts are shown in red and they include the new pump station.

K

Generator electrical control cabinet and proposed driveway.

K

Also included as permanent impact is the site grading necessary to construct the project.

K

So, in terms of mitigation, we understand this wetland. Buffer is a valuable resource and we.

K

Are proposing some wetland plantings to to restore where the existing palm station site is that will.

K

Include wetland, seed mix outside of the proposed fence and also some native shrub plantings.

K

Along along the fence line on the western portion of the site to prove to provide a vegetative.

K

Buffer, which will help reduce some runoff velocity and provide habitat benefits as well.

K

And we can work with our wetland consultant mark jacobs to identify some appropriate species. There.

K

And what we are also proposing wetland seed mix outside of the.

K

Fence line to help restore that area as the pump station is being moved.

K

Slightly, as shown.

K

And there are some storm water improvements. Also, there were no existing storm water controls.

K

At the pump station site and right now we are proposing to offset some of the impervious area.

K

Associated with the driveway, uh with a crushed stone perimeter leading to a grass treatment swell.

K

With some check dams, that's going to help promote some sedimentation infiltration and vegetative.

K

Filtering and uptake before the storm water from the from the driveway reaches the wetlands.

K

So shown here is the existing pump station site and as mentioned and shown on the plans, uh the.

K

Proposed fence line will be shifted about 10 to 12 feet to the left here.

K

And just for reference that the radius of the driveway will be.

K

Just on the inside of this utility pole and then the pump station site will be right in here.

K

And just another look at that: existing pump station site those wetlands back here.

K

And that is it here is some contact info for.

K

Mike and I are right peers as well as the city, if you have any further questions.

A

Thank you. um We have questions from the commissioners allison, so.

F

You know looking at the drawings, it makes me feel that what you're doing is you're actually.

F

Shifting everything further from the wetland is that correct, correct? Yes, thank you. Thank you.

A

Are your questions.

D

Nothing, oh sorry, um nothing from samantha! Oh sam's got one.

J

Samantha are any trees going to have to be uh removed.

K

um I can flip back to those photos here so.

K

It's mostly going to be uh some brush, maybe some small trees mixed in there, but no.

K

No significant uh larger diameter trees that I'm aware of okay. Thank you.

A

The others I had a question about invasive species out there um have, you guys noticed any or.

L

An invasive species survey was not conducted as part of the wetlands delineation.

A

So, and have you observed any you just yourselves or.

A

There was something in there. This is zac crown an assistant city engineer. I don't believe we.

H

Have observed any ourselves now, although we are not a wetland scientist ourselves, okay,.

K

Yeah often times those are uh noted in the whalen reports that we get from.

K

Mr mark jacobs, and he did not note any invasive species uh at the site.

A

Don't you get a hard copy? No, the pile like okay, peter's, just double checking, but.

A

And this might be, for the other commissioners is that site next to pula land.

A

Or is that further down the road pool land yep? Absolutely so, which is the public.

A

Undeveloped lands that we have yeah, we walked through there, that was yeah the sites that we.

F

Yeah yeah, so there's a trail that people use and access right next to it to go behind there right.

A

You guys know the site at all. Yes, that is shown on the um on the plan plans. Yes,.

D

Okay and just to clarify the the new structure um isn't going to driving by it's not going.

I

To look significantly bigger, no, no, the shed will be removed and there will be a.

H

Kind of an electrical control panel on a post with a small roof, so that shed will actually be removed.

B

He doesn't mention any invasives, okay, he does talk about native or you know the plants species.

B

A little bit so he would have an opportunity to, but he didn't mention anything and it was there.

A

There wasn't any maintenance plan on making sure those plants survive or anything written up in.

H

Anything believe they'll have a one-year warranty for the contract to make sure they get established.

H

Mike, can you confirm that, yes, that's correct.

C

Okay, thank you.

D

Anything else anybody at all no.

I

I don't really have a question. I was just glad to hear all of the.

I

Language about the native plants and vegetative plantings, it was really- and I was thinking.

I

Can you talk to the hospital about developing it, but no thank you for the description of.

I

How you plan to work with the wetlands yeah? Thank you, okay, so we have.

A

This, basically does anybody want to make a motion.

E

You know the rule, you know the proper word, I'm still learning allison. I make a.

F

Recommendation I make a motion that we recommend approval of this uh to the planning board.

B

Ted's got his hand up: okay, ted.

C

I was gonna second, but it doesn't matter. Okay, all right, you got it. Thank you. Any discussion.

F

I just hope if there are invasives out there, they understand how to handle them.

A

Yeah it'd be nice not to have more going back into the undeveloped land behind there.

A

Well, it sounds like they're using uh somebody who's, a professional who's, special.

I

Do you know his work? Was it mark jacobs, yeah, jacob yeah? So that's a good sign right, yep.

B

Yeah he's a good scientist. Yeah he's good all right. Thank you. There's no discussion. You want.

A

To do vote with roll call yep. Are we ready so the motion was to approve with no stipulations so.

B

I'm gonna lin, I'm gonna, assume, you're, abstaining um and then uh mika. Yes, abigail, yes, allison, yes, ed.

B

That was a yes, I believe I can't hear it for some reason. Oh there we go um sam, yes and barbara. Yes,.

A

Ocean passes. Thank you very much. Thank you very much appreciate it.

K

Great. Thank you all for your consideration. Thank you. Okay, all right. Our next item on the agenda.

A

Is 460 fw hartford drive want to introduce yourself and speak to the application.

L

This thing off, I'm john rice, I'm the owner of 460fw hartford, drive- and this is before you because.

L

We adopted a very active rescue pup last june, he's a husky mix and he's already.

L

Demonstrated that he can blast through uh an electric fence and with lightning quick speed.

L

So um we thought to give him uh area where he wouldn't run away. It would be a good idea to.

L

Put up a fence in the back of the house that was attractive, a split rail fence.

L

um With a vinyl mesh in between um so that he can run around but at the same time.

L

Keep him contained once he gets once he's gone. uh I don't know if you're familiar with familiar.

L

With huskies, but once they're gone they're gone, so the question might be. Why do you have a dog like.

L

That I asked myself that question several times, particularly when I think about the bill for this.

L

Fence, if you approve it, but um he's a wonderful animal and uh we're big dog people, my wife.

L

Is suffering from cancer, so she's not very mobile um and like once again the.

L

Need for a fence to keep this uh to make it possible for us to just open the door.

L

And the dog can run out, uh particularly when I'm not there and the dog needs to go out so.

L

As fate would have it, the wetlands buffer zone runs right through my house.

L

I don't know how we ever got the um addition built, uh maybe it maybe it had changed over time.

L

Because it's it's it's in the buffer zone. We were before you uh two years ago. I think for a deck.

L

And for the expansion of that? That's when we kind of discovered where we, uh where we are in.

L

Terms of being in the buffer zone, and you you bet, you asked you stipulated that um ferns and.

L

uh Another type of um flower be planted and the ferns are doing just fine. Everything is great, so.

L

I don't have a oh, you have that good. I I I don't have ability to do anything here. I guess, but so.

L

Anyway, so that's the uh I don't know how much you had thanks. I know what you'd like me to tell you.

L

I used to be actually on the planning board, so I'm sort of familiar with this process. Yes, go ahead.

F

So uh you know honestly, I I had a dog, she was an akita mix and um a four foot fence.

F

Was nothing to her yeah sailed right over it? Are you sure four feet is going to be.

F

High enough, I do think it's going to be high enough. uh He's got he's timid.

L

On the one hand, uh I can't even get him to jump in the car. I have. um I use a.

L

Ramp a folding ramp and I have to bribe him to go up the ramp with treats totally treat-driven.

L

So I I I think that will be fine, okay, so, but I totally get where you're coming from on that yeah.

A

I was gonna say the same thing, the amount of as as as you look at the application, the amount.

L

Of wetlands that actually gets a buffer zone that gets actually built on is a little less.

L

Than six square feet, when you talk about all the poles, the poles that are going in.

L

If you did the math peter do we need any kind of, since there is going to be something going on.

F

There, um the signage, you know that we talked about oh uh chen or anything. We haven't been signage.

B

um Yeah a lot of times, we ask people to um put up a sign like at the edge of where the wet is or.

F

Where your end of your buffer, just letting people know that that's a wetland area that you aren't.

F

Supposed to dump in and things like that, it's just a sensitive wetland area or something a.

F

Little sign that just says that, because a lot of times people forget that there's you know.

F

The sensitive area back there, and so if they have the signage, oh yeah, that's right. I can't do that.

B

I can help you with that. There are little things you put on the trees. It's all right, I'm happy to.

L

Accommodate that okay, thank you. um Samantha yeah, you mentioned that you were going to put in two.

J

Gates, but maybe I missed it and see it on the drawing where those dates were going to be.

B

um There's a pointer there, john, you could maybe point on that. This is this yeah one of those.

B

Buttons, you have to push in it, you're pointing that's going to show up for me, though yeah okay.

B

Oh yeah, does it show up? Oh no, I mean I kind of see it very small. There's no clicker just.

B

It's just a circle, yeah all right. So, let's see okay there, it's gonna be one right here.

L

One right here.

B

I don't know if you can see in the center of that sam there's a little pointer.

J

All right, well generally, one kind of to let out to the front of the house and then there's one in the.

L

Back yeah right is that generally what? Okay? That's! That's good enough for me: yeah, okay, yep! Thank you.

L

And to be neighborly, I wanted to have it be a split rail fence rather than a fence fence.

L

Because I really actually don't want to have a fence at all yeah. So if you turn me down.

L

I'll be a little upset, but not too terribly upset.

L

But but we need to, we do need to have that. That's basically for the dog. Thank you. Questions at all.

A

I had a question about that in the application. It's and I'm not sure I read this right, but I.

A

Think it said that the fence is three feet from the actual wetland or I'm not sure exactly how.

L

Far, it is from the from the uh wetlands, but it's the the from. If you look at the, uh if you look.

L

At your packet and you look at that, drawing of the wetlands in the woods um the the edge of wet, seems.

L

To be in the tree line, not where not where my lawn is and the fence is going to be hugging. My lawn.

L

So it's going to be at least uh the fence should be at least three feet away from the edge of wet.

D

Okay, that's my guess. Okay, you can't tell really if, if you were on my, if you did a sidewalk.

L

You really couldn't tell where edge of, maybe you guys could, because you.

L

Guys are experts, but I can't tell where the edge of what is um on my property.

A

Okay, so I had a little question about access uh at the back of the fence and that being.

A

It looks like pretty darn close to the edge of the tree line. um Is it you know.

A

It's hard to get a picture for how much lawn area will be between the fence and the trees.

A

um And whether or not there might be a little opportunity since you're going to be accessing it.

A

From back there that you won't be, you know, I don't know trying to move the fence back a little bit.

A

Away from the wetland area right, it should be a there's a tree back there, a big tree and it.

L

It makes more sense to have the fence hug the back of that tree.

L

And and so that you have about a foot of um you, have a foot of gr of green space. Our rough.

L

Space after my lawn and then there's the tree and then the fence is going to hug along behind there.

L

And um I would suppose that the edge of wet is about a foot and a half beyond that. If.

L

As drawn on your map, but as again, you can't really discern where the edge of what is by.

L

If you did a site peter, if you you've been there, actually it's hard to tell in the back there, yeah.

B

Especially when it's dry for a while right are you gonna, build on the other side of the tree or just.

L

On the other side of the tree, uh it's going to hug that side of the tree. It's only going to be like.

L

That side of the tree, I just walked by so many uh houses in portsmouth. You know where the tree has.

I

Gone through the fence and the fences cut around around the tree, so maybe.

I

Well, you know that maybe maybe we'll change that when we're doing it, but the thought right now it.

L

Made the most sense to put it that way, because then you'd have a lawn on one side of a tree and.

L

On the other, it's just the way the lawn goes, it's sort of funky. So that's the reason why that's done.

A

Yeah, you guys can all come out and meet my dog if you'd like after that.

D

Yeah, okay, any other questions or comments.

A

So you won't just to clarify, you won't be doing anything on the other side of the fence.

A

Afterwards, because so the opening is just so, you can access the woods from there right right.

L

Sometimes we go out and walk around in the woods, um but no I'm not planning on doing anything. No.

A

Just or using that area for anything other than just mow it right like so is there enough room.

A

Between the fence and the uh for a lawnmower to just get in there is that, on the other.

L

Side or yeah on the outside of the fence, um the way it's drawn. Now you have the.

L

You have the tree and the lawn sort of projects a little bit on either side of the tree with.

L

A tree in between that's, why that's why I thought I'd put the fence just behind the tree.

L

So it would um so you'd be able to cut the lawn there's ferns that are there, that I don't want to.

L

I've been cultivating, I don't want to ruin them. I in fact, whenever I go out there, I always walk.

L

Over one pass so that the ferns can not get trampled.

A

So you've already thought that, through that you want to be able to get around the back of the fence without disturbing any of the vegetation exactly. I have thought that through okay, I just.

L

Want to yep, in fact, I've put in plantings, which peter has seen they haven't done very well, but.

L

What am I going to the deck project? Yeah? Okay, yeah. I just want to note that that.

A

Just more of an intense use with having the fence and the dog in there down by the the.

A

Wetland and it's really close to the wetland but um yeah sounds good. Thank you. You're welcome.

I

It might actually provide more of a buffer than no offense right because yeah that's what.

E

I was thinking, decide to go through the fence as opposed to yeah. Actually, there are yeah it'll keep.

L

Them out of some wet areas on my neighbor's side and between me and my neighbor, there's.

L

Just one pool I mentioned in my application is that there's a wet area there, which actually is.

L

Turned out to be a burial ground for all kinds of toys that he keeps bringing up.

L

That's the only bad thing is he won't be able to get at those but yeah. He might still do it.

A

Okay, all right, thank you. There's no other questions from anybody. Nope all set um yeah move.

L

Sorry about having no officials- no, this has worked out fine. um So do we want to all do a vote real.

A

Call, though, how about a motion, if we make a motion, does anybody want to make a motion.

D

I was going to bring it since this is like okay. This is kind of easy.

E

To guide me, I make a motion that we vote to approve.

E

This fencing plan are there any stipulations that people want to add. I do not haven't okay.

E

Thank you. Anybody did I do that. Okay, except for adding the question about the stipulation.

F

Recommend approval: I recommend okay limit, uh okay, because it goes to the planning board.

I

All right, unless there's definitions, I I'm gonna, sign up next.

A

Not very loudly okay, so we got abby making the motion to make a second.

A

Yeah and now we want to do our roll, oh discussion, true yeah, sorry and flashed on.

E

Was that? Because he had a question or anything ted ted's image question? Is that just something.

E

Okay, I don't see a hand but ted. Do you have any question? No discussion? No! Okay! Thank you.

D

All right, so, if there's no discussion, we will have a roll call vote.

B

Roll call vote to approve, as presented.

B

So I'm going to put linda on as abstain. Mica, yes, abigail, yes, allison! Yes, dad.

B

Sam, yes, barbara, yes, okay, awesome, john! Thank you very much. I might hold you to your invitation.

E

Because I used to, I had a good friend who had huskies and I used to um dog sit for them.

E

Yeah they're very cool.

A

All right nice to meet you.

A

A

um So our next agenda item is other business, and so we first had um an item on there, which is the.

A

Amendment to the conservation, commission, rules and procedures um and uh ted had requested to.

A

Speak to that ahead of time I believe ted. Were you going to do that.

A

To give some background.

A

Is he speaking, maybe is he really good.

B

No, I can't hear him nope nothing from ted. It sounds very quiet.

C

I can, but I think we should get into the discussion about the the actual motion of the.

C

Reading of the motion, and then I can give a little background or when we have a discussion about it,.

C

Okay, I think, would be most appropriate. Okay, great, so just put your hand up when you want to do that.

A

So, okay I'll put it down now. Oh, he did he's honest um okay, so um I've made this change.

B

Because when we voted, it was brought to our attention that it says in these rules.

B

That, unless voted contrary by the commission, the vote shall be conducted by secret ballot, which.

B

I brought up with the city attorney who said that that is according to state law, where.

B

The right to know law that would be it would be illegal, I guess, or wouldn't be allowed.

B

So the idea was at least to remove this from the rules and procedures. It wasn't necessarily to look.

B

At all the rules and procedures, but that was a clear problem that we saw. We've never really voted.

B

By secret ballot anyway, but um but to clarify that in the rules we thought it made sense and so.

B

The only change would be this strikeout section in the rules. It removes the section that says.

B

Unless voted to, contrary by the commission, the vote shall be conducted by secret ballot.

B

So our rules say that at the very beginning of the rules it says the rules and procedures may.

B

Be amended by a majority vote with at least six votes in support, but a dually called conservation.

B

Meeting providing the five days written notice, the meeting is given and that such notice shall.

B

Specify the amendment to be voted on, so our agenda did have that specification and it was.

B

Five days in advance, so we followed the rules to do that, um so everything would be in order.

B

If you wanted to make that change, you can talk about it or talk about other changes.

B

I think any other changes probably would need to be noticed, given what it says in the first section.

B

About our rule changes, but we could do that as well. So this is the process, so we can get it under.

B

Our belt, and, if there's other stuff we want to talk about, we can do that. I just have a is: is that.

I

Document available on the ipad, or should I always bring the it's available on the city website? Okay,.

B

It should be, if it's not let me know, I think it is there. Okay and it's yeah, it's a short.

B

Document so I can send it up, but that I put the rules and procedures on this.

B

Meeting agenda, so you can download it from that. ah That's right! Okay, thanks.

A

Yeah now it's it looks like a ton of edits. The way it's set up there on the site.

B

I didn't know how to deal with that, but I didn't change anything else other than.

B

This section- and I think that I don't know if it was a different version of.

B

Word what caused that to happen, but um it just picked up on old.

A

Old changes track changes, so so it's just the one line. That's just one line of blue yeah.

I

In number two is that the one yeah number two b2, two pages- okay got it.

A

And there has been discussion about going through the whole rules and procedures.

A

At some point and ted has a question: okay, good ted.

C

Yes, did I first call everybody's attention to chapter 91a access to.

C

Governmental records of meetings- and this was the whole point of the discussion and if you.

C

Go to paragraph two subject to the provisions of rsa 91-a-3 when everyone finds it. Let me know.

I

If my students ever ask why it's important to know about paragraphs et cetera, I can.

I

Use this as an example, I love hearing people drawing attention to paragraphs and fine lines.

B

That is not there, so I think the other option is to go get it.

J

Ted, can you repeat the the section? Yes, it's chapter 91a. I can pull it up right.

C

Which was sent to us and it's uh paragraph, two roman number, two.

C

Subject to the provisions of rsa 91 to a3, so I'm going to bring it up right here on share screen.

A

Oh great, oh good! That would be good yeah, I'm like straight. We can read it from this far away.

B

Okay, all right, I have it up ted. What I'll highlight which one.

B

Paragraph two: yes roman paragraph, two.

C

Subjects, provisions of rsa, 9183 all means, if you can it's really just the first sentence.

C

Paragraph two: it's important and relevant.

A

Do you want to read it peter wanna make it bigger peter, so people are, can we get to it.

I

I can read it, I can read it. What do you want? The paragraph to I want people to read it.

C

Themselves, that's the point because I want to read from mr sullivan's.

C

uh Comments written opinions so that you can compare what he said to what's there.

C

That's why I sent out the document uh in advance. I can't read it without. I can't have people read.

B

It if they can't see this because when I make it bigger, but it's the first sentence here.

C

It's the first and second sentence and second sentence. So so it should. We could maybe get.

I

To it through our email is that what ted's trying to say that he sent it out yeah right on the city.

B

It's it's right on the city website that with our meeting announcement, so the meeting agenda.

I

It's in the I'll click in there, okay, it says 91a2 got it. Thank you.

C

Then people read that or.

J

I I read it from the screen: share that peter put up good, so the reason that this issue came up.

C

Is I I remember in 2021 when we elected a chairperson, we specifically discussed the.

C

Rule about whether or not it should be a secret ballot or not according to what the rules say,.

C

We had discussion about it and we decided not to, but it was discussed so this year.

C

I can be honest: things will rush through so fast. Obviously, four people knew before that many.

C

Started what was gonna happen? You know so anyway. I started to look at all this and looked at the.

C

Rules so I I had a question from mr sullivan and sent it to him and his written response was.

C

The uh specifically, and if you can read that rsa a2 their very first second paragraph.

C

Reads important part: no vote in open session may be taken by secret ballot.

C

Period but the rest of the statute, what does it say in the rest of that sentence?.

C

Any person should be permitted to use recording devices.

C

Including, but not want to tape, recorders, cameras and video equipment at such made me.

C

C

It says, except for town meetings. This is the important part forget what I.

C

Just said sorry, except for town meetings, school district meetings and elections.

C

No vote on open session may be taken by secret ballot. Mr sullivan interpreted that word elections.

C

To mean, like a city council election, I talked before I even asked bob's opinion. I don't know yes.

C

I went to two really good medical lawyers and I actually went to a sitting judge.

C

And asked their opinion of what that means, and they all explain to me that elections.

C

Is wide open to interpretation that they have elections all over the state of new hampshire? I.

C

Once ran in an election for finance committee in the town of newcastle like 25 years ago,.

C

They have elections for selectmen all kinds of things, so their interpretation of that is.

C

Elections that our election will count as being an exception from this particular requirement.

C

That bob wins out. I personally don't think we have to change anything. uh I really don't and.

C

I think all we do is make sure next january we talk about it, you know, that's all you have to do. I.

C

Don't think there's any need to change this in, in my opinion, after conferring with you know, people.

C

I have a great deal of respect, for, I think bob's, just wrong he's doing his job. I you know I've.

C

Known bob for forever he's the corporate attorney, no matter what the city does, he has to defend it.

C

Whether they're right or wrong, in this case, it's wrong. I'm sorry, that's my opinion on it.

F

My opinion is that we have always had an open vote and I should I think we should continue to.

F

Have an open vote. I see no reason to change it now, that's you know. So, whatever we want to do with the.

F

You know guidelines to the conservation commission. I think that should be deleted.

A

A

Any other opinions on this.

I

So just to clarify, because I'm not sure I entirely understand, uh what's the problem and feel free to.

I

You know I you know, I can abstain from the conversation um because I think there's some.

I

History being referenced that I'm not aware of, um but is the sole question whether the election of.

I

Because election of members is a secret ballot or not, is that what this is about.

I

The election of officers, election of officers- and that seems like that, would.

I

Be a really powerful point I can. I can see why there's some contention around it, maybe.

I

And I'm getting that I'm gathering that there's some contention or not is there.

I

Should I know no, that's a really good question. I don't I we've never done it that way, so we.

A

Were not doing it that way and it was not brought to our attention until after the election, um so.

A

uh But yes, I think I'm guessing you're, probably right they're, I'm not sure why and to what end.

A

But yeah well, I felt like it was more in question than actually a statement so that.

I

So is there a proposal to change this? Yes, okay and the proposal is to say what to strike it out.

A

Just to totally remove it remove the um secret ballot part of it.

A

But with recommendation from the city attorney.

A

To do that, and, to be honest, I also taught I also talked to the association conservation districts.

A

um The director and she you know she had made the recommendation to take it out too. So.

A

She felt that it needed to be kind of an upfront kind of process that um people felt comfortable.

A

To be able to do that, you know and that the public should know who's voting, for who.

A

That it was full disclosure more than anything. So sam has a question. Sam.

J

Yeah, I agree with removing it from the the proposal so that it there's no ambiguity around.

J

You know year to year what we're doing so that it's, it's not a secret ballot, um but I do think.

J

When it does come to be time to elect officers, we go through the procedure and- and you know everyone.

J

Has their say just make it very, um I don't know step-by-step process. I guess uh before.

J

Going straight into to voting and making motions, just so everyone kind of gets more abreast of the.

J

Procedure, because we only do it, do we do it once a year. Do we move every other year? I.

D

Don't even remember so, like just refreshing, everyone's memory every year would be good.

I

Okay, so in all of your cumulative experience, it's never been a secret ballot.

F

I've been on the conservation commission for 30 years. We have never had a secret ballot.

B

Ted's got his hand, okay, ted yeah, but I just want to raise another point here too.

C

Because you were not there at that meeting, but you were appointed as a member of the.

C

Conservation, commission, but you were not invited to the meeting. You were approved december 20th, so.

C

I'm very uncomfortable with this whole process and how it happened and really disappointed in some.

C

Of my fellow commissioners, you know we walked into that meeting motion made. You know mika, you weren't.

C

There you should have been, and the vote was four to three. It was a one vote margin and mika was not.

C

Invited to the meeting- and why is that? How come mika hadn't signed the book to be a member.

C

uh She was given no direction. I talked to her. She went to was ready to go to the city clerk's office.

B

The city clerk is supposed to get her to sign the to sign the book right when you're approved.

F

You get a note in the mail that tells you that you need to come in and sign the book.

F

Yeah, um can I speak to that a little bit yes, um and so I was told to go down to city hall and.

E

I was proactive, but had I not, I wouldn't have even been at the um the december meeting. Let.

E

Alone, the january probably I would have been in mika's boat, so I feel, like um you know,.

E

One, I think it would have been good if, yes, if you get, you know that you don't wait for.

E

A letter in the mail- I never got that letter, so I don't know if they stopped, they didn't send it.

E

Because I had gone in in person to sign it, but if that's not the case, then I never got the thing.

E

But it seems like two different questions, though I feel like if we're just talking about the rules.

I

And regulations like I can't remember when I got the letter and the timing, you know I I'm so I got.

I

A letter I'm not, I did get a letter yeah. I think it was later and I don't remember the timing but.

I

To me, it seems like this is a separate question, then like whether to keep this line in there.

I

And I feel a little uncomfortable because I you know, I think it was that gray area where I just.

I

Didn't propose you know that I don't remember timing, you know well. I also think it's an issue.

F

For people that are very new to the board to even have a vote and the reason that I say.

F

That is that you have no idea unless you watch regularly on channel 22 or the youtube channel.

F

What we do here, how we do it, how we conduct our business and how things have gone in the past.

F

Right and so that's a question to me: well my first meeting I've stained from every vote.

E

Even though I personally had opinions about some of it so right and and the.

E

Process but, like our orientation didn't happen until after my third meeting so.

E

um My my issue with the election was that um uh and because you have it in in.

E

January they're, you know you might very well have new members like me and mika, um but.

E

I didn't even know I mean I I think, I'm I don't the secret ballot or not. I don't really have skin.

E

In that game, I don't I don't know I I don't care so much about that, but what I did care was that.

E

Suddenly we were a motion was to vote on you and I would have liked to have known who is interested.

E

And then run it's sort of like oh yeah. Well, you know, let's vote for somebody and it's like.

E

And after we vote then we'll find out if there's anybody else interested that that is not to me.

E

You know usually you're supposed to have all your choices there and you decide so.

E

I feel like it would have been nice to you know if somebody said I make a motion to say to ask who is.

E

Interested in being chair and then every everybody who was interested would say, you know whatever and.

E

Then you know I or whatever and have a couple minutes or whatever and then do a vote. But.

E

I felt the vote was very um and I think that might have been what sam was getting to just.

E

Sort of talking through what the procedure is, but maybe go a little bit further by saying.

E

Let's have all the candidates for chair and that so I just felt a little blindsided that way.

E

And that's that was my issue, so I was just like whoa um so anyway. Well, interestingly,.

F

um I think this was the only time since I've been on the commission that there have been people that.

F

Have been actually vying for the chairmanship yeah right, I'm sorry! I just got that feeling.

F

Too, I said that this was the first time since I've been on the commission that there was ever.

F

Someone more than one person interested in the chairmanship exactly yeah and, to be honest, I.

A

Didn't know until the date the night before that there was somebody else interested in.

A

The chairmanship there so um and good point all right, ted. You had your hand up. No, no, no.

A

um So we did we and when bob came in here and talked to us, I think we followed procedure on that.

A

End as far as having a motion and the motion was seconded and then we discussed it and then that's.

A

During discussion is when ted right right and henry motioned or he, he said that he would like.

A

To you know have ted beach here so um and we so we did have some discussion and the discussion.

A

Ended with is that all right- and they said yes right, because we had a vote that was going to.

A

Vote, whether or not that person, whether or not samantha and I should be chair and vice chair.

A

And um and then, if that vote answered said no, then we would have another vote, but that vote did not.

A

Go right, but it just sort of seems a weird way to run an election. uh You know yeah just to have it.

E

You know sort of like oh well, we have our front runner and then you know or whatever you know kind of or we have this burton. So I don't know it just felt odd. Can I ask a clarifying question.

I

um Based on something that abigail abby said, um you said that there was, in january a high.

I

Likelihood of new members and then it's also in the calendar when there's choosing the.

I

Chair or election of the chair, there's not a high likelihood. That january is the time.

F

There were three of us at one time that were april and I think barbara and I are still april that we.

F

Have our membership renewed and steve miller was the other person that we were all in april, so it.

F

Just depended on you know: when people left like now henry's gone, we got it he's a new person yeah.

F

So it just happened that it was in january, perfect: okay, it's not a structural issue, yeah, okay, but.

B

In the rules it says the election is in january every year, yeah yeah. Thank you. I just wanted to.

I

You know it seemed like if, if everybody always comes in at the same time, then just make the.

I

The election three months later or something right right that would be tough here, is it annually. I'm.

J

Just like losing my mind here, we go every year, yeah, it says in the rules annually in january.

J

Okay, thank you so, and we try to follow that. Sometimes it doesn't even happen in january. So.

A

So do we want to do a? um I mean we've had some discussion about this. It's kind of.

A

It does go a little off topic as far as just redlining that one sentence.

A

uh For the future um I'm suggesting we might want to see if anybody wants to motion on that and then.

A

Discuss a little more or whatever I would most, I mean as a new person, but so you know I may not.

I

Count but I would motion to remove it because, especially with a town like this, that's going.

I

To be growing so much as we all know, I mean the the ability to actually have people who care.

I

About wetlands on a planning board in a time like this, in a town like this, you know and and.

I

Best practices, it doesn't have to be a commercial loss, it's actually a benefit to towns who invest.

I

You know, after the conversation with abby talking about the the hospital I just started, remembering.

I

All of the schools that I've been a part of that have developed their landscape using native plants.

I

Changed the entire ecosystem and it's so beautiful and it brings so much value and there's so much.

I

That could be done here. So if secret ballots imply people putting in you know, people who maybe don't.

I

Care about conservation but are beholden to other. You know I don't know principles then.

I

And, of course it's always a spectrum, but it would seem that secret ballots aren't really serving.

I

The mandate, but maybe I'm everything though I agree with you, so do you need a motion.

F

Yeah, okay, I couldn't quite catch all of what you were. The.

E

The secret ballot prevents division; no, the secret battle is bad because it lets people get put in.

I

Maybe like, if you don't have transparency, you have more of a possibility of yeah. Okay, like.

E

Corruption, I'm sorry I'm listening in masks again, so I have to readjust my hearing.

A

So did you want to make a motion? I I would motion to strike the secret ballot from the regulations.

I

I'll second, it second invite. Okay, thank you. Does lynn want to vote.

E

On this one, since it's not about a specific thing,.

D

Oh, that's a good question. Okay, I don't think I have enough background yet.

E

No you're more informed than me. Thank you. I don't I'm probably not, but anyway, all right.

A

Any more discussion, any more discussion on this at all. We've got a motion in a second.

B

Motion in a second okay go ahead, um so lin's gonna abstain, mika, yes, abigail.

E

Yes, like allison, yes,.

A

He shook his head: no, no, uh sam, yes and barbara. Yes, okay, there's some passes.

B

The only other thing is, I'm gonna send around the I didn't bring it.

B

Here but I'll send it out when brian's finished, there's a new flyer being done by public works.

B

I think it's just about done what I've seen of it. I think you guys have seen parts of it.

B

um But I'll send it out. It's basically follows providence's uh sort of law and campaign.

B

Information they sent out and public works is going to send it out.

B

Soon, I don't know the exact date, but I talked to brian and I think it's I think it's basically done.

B

If not already done, I know one of the things that we talked about at some point.

F

Was um you know putting a sign at home depot or whatever other places, sell things like roundup.

F

Or weed and feed um you know, those are they've, got pesticides in them, herbicides and.

F

And I I don't think people understand that having a beautiful lawn is a bad thing.

F

That that using those products to have a beautiful lawn is a bad thing, yeah what they consider a.

B

Beautiful lawn yeah, I think that kind of signage would be really great, um because I I think some.

I

Of my neighbors would pay attention to that, but they won't pay attention to a person telling them.

I

So I guess I'm just trying to clarify so you're saying we should put signs up in front of home.

B

Depot saying no, no, I I think that I think that we otters there are towns. I believe someone said.

F

That um that have instituted that, if you're going to sell these products, that you need to put up.

F

This morning, yeah so a conversation with home people about it. Yeah, that's better. I like that.

B

Trying to engage them like yeah. No, I was not suggesting that we just had to sit down.

E

And she's gonna have like one of those moving billboards who comes up and she's partner. Well,.

I

And that would be a great use of the city attorney. At some point I mean in california they've.

I

Successfully like sued roundup and in towns because of the damage done to janitors and.

I

People who use it all the time right so um no, I think that'd be good. That's got to stand up.

B

Oh that'd be like a city ordinance or something right if you're gonna like for.

E

A commercial ordinance or something yeah that businesses that sell these products need to.

F

Put up a sign warning people of what the damage can be. That would be interesting. I like it well.

F

I mean they put it on cigarettes right right, like everywhere so ted yeah. As you might know,.

C

I I one of the reasons I got on. The conservation commission was to push an.

C

Education program and organic lawn care and the city council passed a resolution back in 1977.

C

That the city should put on an organic land care education program and the conservation commission.

C

Was supposed to make a recommendation, we did make a recommendation for the portsmouth program.

C

uh I was assured peter. You assured me in december that they were taking care of it.

C

And it was ongoing, so I've been relentlessly every couple weeks or every week touch space with brian.

C

Over at public works and say: can we get together? Do we have a draft? What's the program going to be.

C

And I'm really disappointed because we never met in march. She said they're going to do something.

C

In april, meanwhile, everybody's buying their fertilizer they're buying their roundup we've.

C

Missed another whole entire season to educate the public about the dangers of some of these products.

C

That they're, using and every time I walk down the street with my dog and I look at these clothes.

C

You do it in your own neighborhoods, you just know they're way too green, and I see the little kids.

C

Playing on them, or I see their pets out there and it it bothers me that our city, we have not.

C

Done enough to educate the public about the dangers of this, and it looks like right now.

C

They're only going to do a smelly of some postcard at the end of may and that's the whole program.

C

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I know there's no web-based program last I saw there wasn't even a.

C

Little program to put a sign up to say our lawn is an organic lawn. You know to pressure the neighbors.

C

Jim splain was wild about that idea. He thought it was terrific, you know. So I don't know what.

C

The status of the program is, all I know is time is marching on and we've missed a tremendous.

C

Opportunity here, the other part of if we encourage people to follow organic land care practices.

C

People in this town have a pile of money. They don't cut the law, they hire someone to do it.

C

You know just look around it's crazy, so in these people say: oh yeah, I'm doing using organic stuff.

C

They're using biosolids because it's been classified as organic and biosolids. That's what.

C

Comes out of you know, wastewater treatment plants. You know it's really dangerous stuff, so we need.

C

To protect and educate people we've been given that responsibility by the council make a.

C

Recommendation, the city has been for several years now and we still don't have anything up in money.

A

So I I didn't you had sent out uh or I think you forwarded to everybody a.

A

Draft that brian had right did that go to everybody. uh I I don't know I sent it to the.

C

To you guys to disseminate it to the rest of the conservation commission, members.

C

I don't know what I've got to hear. It's just it's a it's. Only, it's a cut and paste from.

C

From one page of the multiple pages in the providence plan, you know, but the key part of.

C

The providence plan, how the successful part is to you, you go online, you say: okay, I'm gonna. I pledge.

C

I'm going to follow, you know, say no for standards, I'm going to follow organic land care standards.

D

That's the stuff: they send you a little odd sign that you put on your lawn.

C

That says: hey this one is, you know, was maintained organically and that pressures, people and.

C

School children and others to talk about it and to start a movement here. You know this one thing.

C

And actually uh it was talked about here. You know, I think uh who brought it up about. No me.

C

One not knowing automatically no moment yeah that that's that's taken off. You know a lot.

C

Of people are following that, but we have an opportunity here to change the world so.

C

My point about there's so many people that pay people to do their lawn if we could educate.

C

People tell them they should get people that are accredited in organic lawn care through nofa. We.

C

Could be creating an entire industry here, uh you know we can get people there if they start hiring.

C

People that are accredited automatically you're gonna improve the the the surroundings, because a.

C

Lot of people do pay, people to cut their lawn and, and we can educate the people that are out there.

C

We can encourage them in many ways. There are a number of acquired lawn care companies.

C

Out there, but what happens, is you see it? You see a truck says: oh yeah, we're green.

C

Oh yeah or organic, it's pardon me, but most of it is bs and then they tell you they're.

C

Using organic stuff- and they charge you a higher price because it is so, our consumers are losing.

C

Our taxpayers losing we're not doing a job here. In my opinion, I think that the city has to do.

C

More and I think that the conservation commission has to be on this and pushing this, you know it's.

C

It's I'm just so I'm frustrated be honest. Yes, yes, so it seems like there are two things. One is like.

I

People here are very conformist and they imitate each other, and I think it's true that if there can.

I

Be some kind of like you know, working with schools etc to have folks, you know, information that that.

I

The dandelions were brought by settlers. That's how important they are right. um I don't know if this.

I

Is what you want to do with this conversation, but there it seems like there's that element and then.

I

The governance level of just setting some messages that the city has right about best practices and.

I

If it's on the website do you already have, that? Is that already part of like that people can.

I

Look up because I know in just I'm part of this regenerative gardening group in the neighborhood.

I

And we're all online and everybody's sharing best practices. But if there's a place on the.

I

City website that people can go to and refer to it just builds that sense of this is a real thing.

I

um It's I was walking by a guy working on a salon. The other day he had the 1776 sign and not a.

I

Dandelion in sight- and he was you know various you know just working really hard and I said to him.

I

uh You know dad across the way I said: where are your dandelions and he told me how they were bad.

I

And you know whatever and I I told him the story of settlers bringing them and he you know thinking.

I

Just the language that really moves people, because, as we all know right this, all these chemicals, it's.

I

Also it's having an effect on instinct life. It's having you know we're in the sixth extinction.

I

Five percent of lizard species are meant to be gone in the next fight. You know it's like.

I

You're paying attention to what's happening scientifically. We are beyond the tipping point.

I

And we have so many practices that we could use and bring in to play and portsmouth can be a towns.

I

That take that leadership role. They're amazing they've become even more of a draw right. So I.

I

Don't see what would stop portsmouth there's so much wealth here too there's so there's.

I

Like a critical mass of phds and just brilliant dedicated people, so what would stop it from being.

A

Right, yeah! No, I I like your. I would like to know more about your neighborhood thing that you've.

A

Got going on oh yeah, because that's a really good way to go. Did you have an update to peter on the.

B

Just that I was going to say that the program in providence is a grant program that they did, that.

B

They got these lawn signs and we said we'd use the information from that in the flyer that public.

B

Works was doing and that's what's coming out. So that's the that's. Only update and I'll I'll send.

B

It out when it comes out, um it's not formally out but I'll, send it out, and that was the commitment.

B

We made at the conservation commission meeting in terms of getting that grant program going.

B

You know that's a possibility, but when I talk to people in providence I think two people put the.

B

Signs up so we need, we really need. Is groups like neighborhood groups that want to do these things.

B

And work on it to say that the city is not doing its job. The city can't make people go to organic.

B

Fertilizer, unless we pass laws, so if we want to pass a law or a statute, we can try that route.

B

But what does that even look like, and how do we do that? So I guess I'm just being a little defensive.

B

Because I feel like you know, you can only do so much as a city government. People have to want to.

B

Do it in their community, so I think groups that nika's talking about groups like that that do.

B

Things and groups that people participate in are going to be the way to get things going. We do need.

B

Public participation on many things we're going to be doing a lot with climate change in the summer.

B

We're trying to do more in the planning department, the planning director is really interested in.

B

Meaningful public participation, and so where can we make a difference and where can we get people.

B

To move is great, it's all great stuff, but how do we? It takes energy and it takes staff and it or it.

B

Takes members of the public you know somebody has to there has to be time put into it. They.

B

Can't just be pointing fingers at what people are doing has to be actual. You know meaningful.

B

Work that people go and get people to do and it if it's a neighborhood. You know, friends that are.

B

Talking about their gardens, that can go a long way, and maybe that gets turned into something.

B

That gets publicized on the city's website, like I'd like to hear about your integrative gardening.

B

Group- maybe there's a way to point to that or you guys have a workshop. You know and things like that.

B

Are ways to get things going? It's it's building support, rather than saying when things aren't.

B

Getting done enough, I think, is what needs to happen is how do we build support? How do we build.

B

A meaningful understanding that there's a lot of things that are happening that are going.

B

The wrong way we need to get people moving in the right direction, trying to mitigate.

B

Impacts and adapt to changes that are already happening and that's where we have to do a lot.

B

Of work and- and there's no question about that, but is, is anybody working with schools specifically.

I

For example, I just walked by the um little harbor school, where they're doing the they're tapping the.

I

Trees right and there are these beautiful signs up and there's clearly a third grade project involved.

I

You have little armies in schools right who are keen. So if there's somebody who and also giving.

I

Somebody a role I mean as volunteers right, we all get a pleasure from doing this work to the degree.

I

That we can right, but so that is there you know you can create a position, because people feel.

I

Good about that right, so I I think you know the city really. Is people right right? The government.

I

Just kind of can give that sense of meaning and convergence you're, not ad hoc, creating it, and it's.

I

You know easier for you to stop believing in it right. um So it's a building community, but if, if.

I

I mean I'd, be happy, I don't know if there are already groups working with the schools, but.

I

I would love to see you know if there's a climate change group at the school and do.

I

They want to interface with various projects that the city has just make that link that pipeline.

I

There's an eco club at the high school and um I can send you a link because there's the.

F

Portsmouth climate solutions group that I'm a member of and we meet seven o'clock on wednesday.

F

Evenings um yeah and I've got an energy meeting that started half an hour ago, but at any rate.

F

um At any rate, uh I can send you that, because we're looking at a number of different things and.

F

How to reach out to the public and the eco club? It has three members that show up pretty regularly.

F

And so we have a discourse with them and they're very active in um doing things within the.

F

Community to try to make people aware of um our impending crisis here right and then solutions.

I

That sort of ties into like when I brought up the trash you know like the the mountains of waste and.

E

um And then the south milpon, maybe you know getting that, but so it's yeah you, you teach the.

E

Kids and they teach the rest of the family a lot of times anyway, and there's there's energy there.

I

And yeah and they have energies, are looking for things to do. It's helpful there's a lot.

B

Of different efforts at the schools I mean the eco club is just one example, but I think other.

B

Schools have things going on too, so you just have to talk to the teachers or principals. There.

B

But I think, building that explicit link to the city, if it's not already there, that's that.

I

Piece where you can put it on the website, and you can you know so I mean it seems like there's.

A

Two things: one is the schools and one is the fertilizer lawn care and organic practices. Well,.

F

I think it's just under the headline of what peter is talking about is how to build support for some.

F

Of these climate and environmental issues that we support, you know: how do we get the community.

F

Involved in it well, it will be different for each issue right different. Absolutely the umbrella is.

E

Yeah community, so do we want to work on this further, like with the subcommittee.

A

um Ty, do you already have a subcommittee for the outreach on the lawn care? I think.

A

Is he still there? Yes, no, we don't have any subcommittee. I've been trying to.

C

Get a meeting going with brian and then we was gonna notify uh peter and company on the date.

C

And that's what you talked about months ago and then we'd have a date and meet with brian.

C

And his gang and what ideas they had on the education program? It never transpired.

C

I think there's some wonderful ideas being talked about here and bringing in the schools and others.

C

So we haven't had any meetings we haven't had a subcommittee. You know I've been hoping that.

C

Trying to push this along is as much as I can, because who who would push it along.

A

Brian well, I've been, I was told brian, is the guy who said he was together. Ryan said he was.

B

Going to do incorporate the information at that meeting. He said: he'd incorporate it into a flyer.

B

And that's what he's doing, but I don't know about a subcommittee doing more. I mean that there's no.

B

Reason it couldn't happen, but it doesn't have to be just the city setting it up. I mean there's a.

B

Lot of other competing interests, then it doesn't have to just be the conservation commission.

B

I think there's there's a lot of groups outside of the confirmation conservation commission that.

F

Are working on these kinds of things and that's why, if anybody is interested, I can send you the.

F

Link to the meeting that we're going to have this evening at seven o'clock, and it opens.

F

The door for you to have your say about how you think things should be done and what we should be.

F

Looking at to try to help the city like we want to be an arm of the sustainability committee.

F

So that when they need people to be active and trying to communicate to the public, providing.

F

Educational opportunities etc that we can. We can provide that because we're willing to.

F

But the thing is trying to get enough people involved and willing to do. That is very difficult.

A

So maybe it could be spearheaded by some other organization, yeah, absolutely yeah, so I'll I'll.

A

Attend that tonight, if they change okay I'll come too and then um okay, why don't you check in with.

A

Brian again and um we'll some of us will attend this meeting tonight and we'll talk about it.

A

Again and figure out, maybe a subcommittee or two- I need your email addresses in order to do that.

F

Barbara, I have yours, but I do not have mikas and I don't know if you want to attend abby yeah. I ca.

E

I probably can't tonight, but I am interested I'd like to. Is it a zoom or is it in person somewhere.

I

Because assume, oh okay, even easier, because I can feed my children, but I would have come anyway.

A

You're really there, the other people that are on anybody else, want to get that forwarded.

A

Virtual people- yes me.

F

So peter you're going to send me people's email addresses.

F

I can just I'm going to write it down. Okay, I can write it for you. If you'd like.

I

Yeah sure do you want it on a piece of one of your pieces.

A

You can send it to everybody, actually, you have them, because the.

F

I don't have mikas yeah, she was in the um everybody was in the email.

B

That I sent out what she did well, you know some of those are bcc's.

A

Try to get us out of here in a couple of minutes, so we'll leave it at that and everybody that wants.

A

To attend that we'll attend that tonight and then there um I had one other uh other business.

A

Was that peter and I had received an email from uh who did who's amanda's phone with now.

A

uh Cooperative extension, yeah, unh, cooperative extension and part of cause. Well, I thought.

B

That was italian outreach group coastal adaptation worker and they are looking for cities to or towns.

A

To participate in a coastal flood risk guidance project where they're going to provide resources.

A

On sort of we're not sure the details, but maybe opportunities collaborate within other boards and.

A

And staff and everybody in the city on that, so we were going to just meet with them to get some more.

A

Information to bring back to everybody on that the next meeting- that's exciting yeah. It's a grant.

A

Project, so um that was the other thing that I had, I think, does anybody else have other business.

A

Nobody, okay, I think we're going to go with that, make a motion to adjourn. Thank you. A second thank.

A

You and welcome lynn thanks for attending a lot of fun. um Okay, I don't think I think you can adjourn.

B

It yourself: okay, I'm going to adjourn all those in favor yay, yay. Okay, thank you. Meetings, adjourned.