City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Conservation Commission, 13 Apr 2022

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4.13.22 Conservation Commission

A

This is good and then dictionaries. It works for dictionaries like the bigger dictionary.

B

I'm gonna welcome everybody to the april 13 2022 regular meeting of the conservation commission.

B

uh First order of businesses: we do have two members that are not here today, so you will.

B

Both be voting as alternates or as actual members, and also we have one member on zoom jessica.

B

Blasco, commissioner blasco, I think that's yes, I'm here, hey jess, um so our first order.

B

Of business is the approval of the march 9th 2022 minutes. Does anybody want to make a motion.

C

I'll make a motion: okay, we uh approve the uh minutes of.

C

April 9th uh the meeting of april 9th 2022., thank you seconded. um I have a correction for it. You.

A

Want a second and then what happens after sure, okay, okay, thank you and corrections. um Discussion.

A

Of course it's something I caught because um of what um so on page six second paragraph.

A

Yeah um uh it says um I can read it right off the page. um Ms gindale commented that they.

A

Said the meadow was previously disturbed. uh My understanding is that the um engineers or whoever.

A

Said it was previously undisturbed and that's what I disagreed with so I don't know if I said.

A

It incorrectly or if it's uh it was, you know typo by the thing, but my correction is that.

A

My understanding is that they said it was undisturbed. Okay,.

C

And that's what I disagreed with okay or question whatever you, okay, I did not see that yeah. I guess.

D

I'm not clear, you said it says you said the meadow is previously disturbed, but that's not right.

A

This says the me: the meta was previously disturbed yeah that that's what they said. That's what I'm.

D

Saying they said my understanding is, they said it was undisturbed. So you were saying that's.

A

Why you guys sort of chose to have them not develop there, because it was undisturbed? Okay,.

D

Great but my feeling when I went to the site I was like yeah. This has.

A

Been disturbed, I thought so yeah anyway. So that's that's my only.

A

Okay, thank you. We don't have allison here for her. I know for her. I knew she wasn't coming so I was.

B

I did look at it really closely and um there's no other comments. I'd like to say.

B

That they look pretty good yeah, it was pretty nice, so, okay, so no other changes uh yeah. I do.

C

It's actually it's rather significant and it's so I I went back and I saw the tape twice or three.

C

Times to be certain that I was correct, you know so that the the minutes don't reflect what the tape.

C

Does shows videotape, but basically, when bob was explaining the question way near the end of the.

C

Meeting and allison you had talked to I'm not allison, but uh barbara. You had talked about.

C

Basically, a question to robert, so we should correct our meet our our procedures. Right.

C

And bob said: yes, you should, and they went out to tell the story that he didn't even know.

C

They existed until two weeks prior when a question came up and the planning board.

C

And he said the florida planning board and the conservation commission.

C

Have minutes that he did not know existed and that he had never they as far as he knew. No one.

C

In the law, department had even read them and they never been reviewed by the law department.

C

And this should be reflected in here, because that was very significant, so you want it added during.

B

That discussion yeah second to last paragraph yeah in the in the last uh paragraph here before.

C

A a german, probably you're, growing after chairman mcmillan commented that they should change.

C

Really you ask bob sullivan if they, if we should change the language and the rules and procedures.

C

And uh bob answered in the affirmative and then went on to say that he didn't even.

C

He, the law department, never reviewed these rules and procedures. He didn't even know.

C

They existed and that's really pretty significant because you know I I looked at the playing board.

C

I assumed peter, you would know, but this is the cover page and our rules and procedures, and it.

C

Says on it, prepared by the plain department, revised 3909 approved 513. Oh now, you know.

C

Yeah, I vaguely remember the rules going into place for the concom for the first time. I don't remember.

D

A legal review either, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen right right, but I it's got the same.

C

Color, you know prepared by the playing department, who've done this date and it's I think it was used.

D

As a mod, so yeah, okay, thank you is that it good thanks ted. um We have to do a roll call vote um so.

B

I'm going to say all those in favor and peter you want me to run through it or um it's up to you. I.

D

I can, but I need to rank a little first. I gotta find jess. Where is she there? We go there. She is.

D

Okay, all right, um I can do it sure, okay, um mika yeah, abigail, yes, who's! Next to me, sam.

B

Yes, peter, I don't vote ted jessica, yes, okay, okay, all in favor, all favor. Okay, with the amendments.

B

um I'm just going to do. We have to do a motion on the request to postpone there is this one: okay,.

D

um I think it would be good to do because I don't know if we ever got a letter from them. Okay, so I.

D

Think the commission should formally postpone it. I would uh take out an order just for a second.

B

Number two is a request to postpone 3333 borthwick avenue. Does anybody want to make a motion to this.

B

Phone I'll make a motion uh I'll make a motion to postpone the application for 333 borthwick.

E

Avenue to the may meeting. Thank you seconded all. Second, thank you. I can just tell you what what I.

D

Know about that there it turns out that they part of their project is in the front yard setback. So.

D

They're on their way to the board of adjustment first before they come here, so it makes sense to.

D

Get that approval before they ask for a wetland conditional use, permit, okay, great so after they.

D

Come finish at the boa they'll come here, okay, any other discussion, uh roll call, all those in favor.

D

Yes, abigail sam, yes, barbara, yes, dad jess! Yes, okay! Thank you! So the next item on the agenda is the.

B

Wetland conditional use permit oh business, 213 jones ave anybody here to speak to that.

F

Yes, thank you random, chair members of the conservation commission, john chagman, from.

F

Ambit engineering, if we're going to have parents up there or not.

F

But we were at your meeting john, what? What page did you or what sheet do you want uh c2.

F

Third sheet in, I believe so we we came before you last month and.

F

uh We were, we were told, we could do a better job and I think we did so. We went and looked at.

F

Everything again- and uh we had shown a uh this- is for buffer impacts to a freshwater, 100 foot buffer.

F

uh At the property on jones avenue, the project is to create an a detached accessory dwelling unit.

F

uh By constructing a new structure on the property on the east side along the frontage, the way that.

F

The rules are promulgated for detached accessory dwelling units. The dwelling unit has to be.

F

In front of the accessory dwelling unit, in this case, the existing small house is going to become.

F

The accessory dwelling unit and the new construction is going to be the detached primary.

F

Structure, that's what you see on the right there and in order to manage stormwater runoff, because.

F

The property flows to a 15-inch culvert under jones avenue. We were proposing a detention pond.

F

And the detention pond was in the wetland buffer and it was um uh you know you asked.

F

If we could reduce the impact, so we looked at it and we decided that if we created a berm and.

F

Made the backyard a detention structure um in its entirety, sort of not focused on a detention.

F

Area but create this berm, which would keep the water in the backyard and meter it out slowly.

F

So we don't impact the culvert that we could reduce significantly the buffer impact, so.

F

What you see here is a plan that shows a reduced buffer impact. It's now 1776 square feet of impact.

F

And that includes the construction, it's primarily for the berm. If you look go to the next page, you.

F

Can see the hatched area showing that part of the reason that the impact is um is necessary.

F

Is there is a finger of wetland that comes up, so the buffer line really takes a turn? It doesn't go.

F

Straight across the backyard we had some buffer plantings and we've repositioned those.

F

And expanded those, so we added to the buffer plantings and we've also repositioned them.

F

To fully cover and be upstream from the wetland resource in the back of the lot.

F

I think that's pretty much all that um that we did that's all I'm going to present.

F

One of the members had a question about stormwater hydrology, so we did.

F

Update the folder with a complete drainage analysis and we'll be going to the planning.

F

Board for initial use permit and the attached detached accessory, drawing unit approvals in.

F

May, as we need to make a detour to the zoning board for a second driveway.

F

We're looking for your recommendation today and hope you would agree that we've improved.

F

The project to the point where you can recommend approval. Thank you. Is there any questions? Yep.

C

John, we probably talked about this at the prior meeting, but I've forgotten this septic system.

C

Is going to be for both properties? Correct, yes, currently, there's a septic system that is roughly.

F

uh In the garden area, behind the existing dwelling unit, there'll be a collection system pumping to a.

F

Fully conforming new construction standard system that will replace.

C

Do we know what the schedule is for the city to complete having water and sewer out there.

C

On jones avenue, I'm not aware that there's any plans to sewer jones avenue.

D

No, I know sagamore is the current plan, but I don't know about jones.

F

It's on it's already on town, water or city, water. Sorry,.

B

Okay, other questions.

B

No, um yes, I I'm just I'm. Is there, do you have a cross section showing the berm in your plans.

E

Yeah, if you go to the detail sheets, I think we have a detail. I'm just I'm a little confused.

E

About how it actually is works, so water gets. um I guess we don't. We have a spillway detail.

F

If you look at the grading plan, what we're doing is we have to? We want to create the.

F

Top of berm elevation, two of to function, the contours on c4 there, it's actually such a flat.

F

Lot that we did half foot contour interval and we're creating a a berm that runs from a.

F

Sort of relative high point here on this part of the lot and runs over to a high point here on.

F

The lot so the top of the berm would be elevation, 34.5, okay and on the back side, the elevations are.

F

34 33 and then there's a small area down here that gets to elevation 32.. So at its at its peak, it's a.

F

Two and a half foot high, backside: okay and then the front side of the berm sort of blends into.

F

The development, so it goes from a top of 34 5 to 35 at the structures.

F

So it's just sort of a backyard down to a slope off.

F

So it's sort of only a berm on the back side, really, okay! So then the the roof drain.

E

Is coming? Is that going all the way through the berm to the other side, so the half of the roof.

F

uh Half of this roof is going to go through to this side of the berm. Okay.

F

And be infiltrated in the back, this east half of the roof goes to the drip apron in the front.

F

And this roof just sheds off and runs down and under the driveway.

E

Okay, so it'll be the drain will be infiltrating on the the southern side of the berm.

E

Over time after a rainfall, and then your emergency spillways, if it gets to be too much so the storm.

F

Analysis goes to the 50-year storm, so other storms would go over the emergency spillway.

F

And I forgot to mention: we did make the driveway porous as suggested. Okay. Okay, thank you for.

E

Explaining that I appreciate it, okay, thank you. um I had a couple of questions. um There's like.

B

Four trees in the front you're taking out is there going to be any replacement of those.

B

Trees at all or sarah, so those are um there's not at this point on this plant, but if you'll notice.

F

All of these trees here have been recently planted by the property owner he's gone through and made.

F

Some significant improvement in tree plantings, so we weren't planning to replace those given.

F

We hope we're getting the credit for what he's done in the past two or three years.

B

But you're doing all that planting around the buffer, where the bushes are correct. Yep, there's.

F

uh 3 500 uh 3640 square feet of buffer planting with the schedule of 27 plants in that buffer area.

B

And for the berm, how are you gonna mate? What is it gonna be just grass just grass, but mowable.

B

Grass kind of or yeah you wanna be able to maintain a berm as without woody vegetation.

F

So you maintain the integrity of the berm, so just be mowed grass weed whack twice a season kind of.

F

Grass, okay, thank you. Yes would you sorry you can go ahead. Are you going to be following.

C

uh Organic land management practices on this property, uh the nofa standards. Yes, uh yes, okay, yep,.

B

Yes, um access to the current garden with with the now buffer planting areas is just kind of a.

E

Natural pathway, someone will just walk through to access the garden or correct okay, yeah yeah.

E

I'm assuming it's not gonna, be incredibly dense, shrubbery, at least in the beginning,.

E

Anyway, so right, yeah they'll just walk through between the shrubs. Thank you, yep.

B

So, do you anticipate any decrease in volume of water going to the wetland behind this decrease.

F

Volume of water going to the wetland.

F

I know you're, probably not it's, because what we're doing is you know the the contributing.

F

Area flows to the low spot on mr stickneys, and then it flows out to the culvert.

F

So we're just kind of holding it back. You know so that the.

F

Increased surface water runoff from the new development can flow through the culvert.

F

Before this water flows through it, so it's just holding up the water, that's coming on their.

F

Property already, okay and yeah, except for the roof drain, though right, except for the roof drain,.

F

Yeah yeah, okay, but that's a balancing act because we can't increase the flow to the culvert.

F

Under the the road okay, that was so thank you for sam for your questions, because that led me to okay.

A

Yep, I just had a couple of comments. Questions on the maintenance plan that you guys put together.

B

Okay, um it's great that you put that in there it's um not designed for the homeowner at all, so.

B

I would just request that you maybe put in something in there because it as a homeowner, I.

B

Think they're going to be overwhelmed because you also have it for the contractor and it would be.

B

Nice to have some sort of clarification in there. You know for the homeowner for the contractor.

B

Because if I was a homeowner, I you've got terminology in there that maybe this homeowner.

B

Will understand but when it's passed on to the next home owner, it's gonna, it's pretty technical.

B

So that would be my one request: change it because it's nice, it's in there.

B

Because it's definitely going to need some maintenance on that.

F

Yeah, it's the drip, apron, the berm and the porous pavement all need to be maintained, but.

F

uh Hopefully, the homeowners of tomorrow and and today are going to get used to that kind of thing.

B

Yeah dreaming kind of any other questions of applicant. Anybody want to make a motion.

E

Yeah, okay! Yes, uh I recommend uh approval for the conditional use permit for 213 jones avenue.

B

Thank you second second, and any discussion.

E

Yes, I appreciate you coming back and just kind of looking at everything again.

E

And coming up with another uh game plan, sure what you think yep it's a better plan now. Thank you.

A

So you're happier, okay, good go okay! So do we want to do a vote? There's no other.

B

Second, did that, oh you did right, you think so. Thank you, sorry. That was let's pick the thing.

B

All those in favor roll call abigail, yes, sam, yes, barbara, yes, ted, yes, jessica! Yes,.

G

Okay, so it's unanimous thank you. Thank you. Take care. Next, on the agenda. We have.

B

State wetland bureau application new business 325 little harbor road here to speak to that.

H

Thank you, madam chair members of the commission good afternoon, corey caldwell from tf moran.

H

With me today is anthony and rachel dilorenzo owners of the property and the.

H

Applicant and jay obi, our wetland, scientist and environmental, permitting scientist with tf moran.

H

This commission saw one of three parts to this project at your october and november 2021 meetings.

H

A joint site walk was then held with this commission and the planning board on this.

H

Property on november 8th of last year, since those meetings, you may recall revisions to the utilities.

H

Serving the island were recommended and we learned that the approaches to the bridge were in need.

H

Of reconstruction, as such, we appeared again before this commission at last month's meeting.

H

At that meeting, this commission recommended favorable approval to the planning board and were.

H

Scheduled to appear before the board on april 21st for a conditional use permit for the main house.

H

And related site improvements. This was part one of the overall project part two and our purpose.

H

Here today is to replace the existing docking structure, which has deteriorated over time.

H

This structure is located on the northern side of the island and has been in place for decades.

H

At a later date, once construction has begun on the new home, we'll have a third wetland.

H

Application for review by this commission for the replacement of the bridge to the island.

H

The bridge, the approaches to the bridge and utilities under the bridge and adjacent to.

H

The bridge within the 100 foot, tidal buffer zone will also be part of that application.

H

But our purpose today is simply to replace the the existing docking structure, the the.

H

Application before you was thick and contains several studies and or reports, it is quite simple.

H

We've submitted this application to the department of environmental services for approval.

H

Our purpose today is to give this commission an opportunity for review and feedback.

H

Since joby our wetland, scientist and environmental permitting specialist completed the application.

H

Well, he's going to now explain the details of the docking structure, replacement.

B

I

Madam chairperson, members of the conservation commission, my name is jay obi again, I'm with t.f.

I

Moran and I was very much involved with preparing the wetlands permanent application for this.

I

Project we have prepared a brief presentation for you just to go through some of the aspects.

I

Of the permitting process really just to demonstrate to you folks too, that we've.

I

Done our homework and we've adhered to the new new hampshire des wetlands bureau, administrative rules.

I

And this presentation demonstrates that quite nicely, am I able to advance this.

I

Last time, next to me: okay, all right! Next, please, there is a. There is a zoom thing or a.

D

Pointer on that, um you just give it a quick test: drive okay, yeah.

D

Which button is it? I thought it was a little one. Corey is more an expert than I am.

I

We know you're all pretty much familiar with the site: we've performed uh site visits sidewalks, but.

I

Just uh just for the members of the audience too, and those viewing from home just to get a sense.

I

Of where the project is located next slide, please we can zoom in and zoom in again next slide. Please.

I

And next slide yep and focus on this area just to be clear, this is a part b of the project.

I

This is solely for the purpose of of taking this residential docking structure.

I

And then replacing it with the new residential docking structure uh next slide, please.

I

So here is the area where we're proposing uh the new docking structure.

I

uh The new docking structure will go within this within this same location,.

I

uh There would be very little need if any for disruption along the shoreline. uh We will be.

I

Where you see the landing there or the platform to access the dock, even we have.

I

Increased the size of that slightly, because what we've done is actually we've on the proposed dock.

I

We've elevated it two feet so that it can be more resilient to sea level rise in the future.

I

And I'll speak to that more when we get to the vulnerability assessment piece in just a moment.

I

Next slide so again, here's here's the area where we're proposing the impacts next slide. I think.

I

It's important to touch on priority resource areas as part of the ds permitting process. They.

I

Request applicants for projects of this nature to do some screening essentially take a hard look at.

I

The project to ensure that it will not impact any sensitive resources, and we've done just that here.

I

If you can move the next slide, please here here's the 2017 eelgrass data. You can see the.

I

Proposed docking structure proposes no impacts to eelgrass next slide is the 2019 yield grass data.

I

Next slide, please salt marsh data. This is consistent with our findings on site too.

I

There is a little bit of a sliver of salt marsh to the right of the proposed dock, but the the new.

I

Docking structure will propose no impacts to this higher value uh salt marsh area next slide. Please.

I

Shellfish classification areas we're required to take a look at next slide. This area is closed.

I

Shell, fishing, and so really the project will have. No, um you know no impact on on.

I

Shell fishing at all next slide, prime wetlands no impact as well and the 100 foot buffer next slide.

I

It's important to take a look at the coastal functional assessment. This is.

I

A new requirement the des permitting process. What this requires the applicant to do is to.

I

To take a hard look at the functions and values of the resource, that's proposed.

I

To be impacted and to be able to demonstrate that upon completion of the project there.

I

Will be no net harm or impact on those key functions and values so next slide. Please.

I

I'm not going to bore you with all the details of this slide, but this is the.

I

This is customary dismissed document like this. The certified well and scientist myself completes this.

I

To assess and determine the principal functions this resource has next slide. It does have.

I

A number of key principle functions, but at the end of the day, by simply replacing the existing.

I

Docking structure with the new docking structure, there is no impact on those functions and values.

I

Next slide, please vulnerability. Assessment is also required, as you know, in the through.

I

The permitting process now so we use the models prescribed.

I

By des and take a look at how projected projected sea level rise may impact this project next slide.

I

um Using the models and the literature and the science that's recommended by des this project,.

I

Is classified as having a high tolerance for flood risk, meaning that it's relatively low cost and if.

I

It were to be impacted by sea level rise. It poses no threat to public infrastructure or access to.

I

Public services so using um using the high level of risk tolerance as a baseline for determining.

I

And looking at the models next slide, please we're able to project what the mean higher higher water.

I

Elevations will be for the year 2040, which is roughly here next slide. Please.

I

2070 and next slide um 2135 and next slide.

I

What we've done, as I uh spoke to earlier, is, is that we've lifted up the dock uh two feet so that.

I

We can stay well, above the mean higher high water elevation and beyond 2100 um next slide. Please.

I

Here is an overview of the project area. It's a little faint on the screen there, but.

I

Where you can see the existing dock area, I'm not sure if that that shows up well for you, there.

D

Just don't touch the screen, please it's a touch screen. That's why the existing dock.

D

Here the existing dock extends to roughly here. The proposed docking extends a bit beyond actually.

I

uh To clarify the the proposed dock extends 47 feet out further than the.

I

Than the existing dock, how far does the existing dock extend in total? I don't have those numbers.

I

Right at my fingertips, but the proposed duck does extend like I said, 47 feet.

I

um The reason for this is because uh the current configuration at time uh there just isn't enough.

I

Water during low low tide uh at times to to to draft that boat and the boat is, is bouncing off.

I

And spending some time on the surface, creating creating uh turbid conditions, exacerbating the.

I

The situation with turbid water and the other thing, and it's just in general,.

I

It's not a good practice to have structures resting on um on the surface on the bottom.

I

Which is why certainly many float stops every are many floats. Are.

I

Required to be on float stops to prevent that from from occurring next slide. Please.

I

uh So this this image more accurately represents.

I

Or not more accurately, but but clearly represents the the extension from the existing.

I

The end of the existing structure um and how we're extending out.

I

47 feet next slide. Please it's important to recognize that although 47 feet may seem.

I

You know alarming on the surface. It does still meet des standards. We are allowed to.

E

By rule extend out 200 feet and we're only proposing to extend out to 123.8 feet, total.

I

There is also an additional role that requires that the proposed structure.

I

Cannot encompass more than 25 of the channel of water, that's created that mean low water.

I

And we've done that as well and that's represented on the next slide. uh Just one more piece to point.

I

Out too, under des rules, the overall footprint in in totality the structure were allowed no more.

I

Than 1500 square feet, the proposed docking structure is at 900 feet next slide. Please.

I

This slide represents how the proposed docking structure, even with that increase in length.

I

It still meets the rule relative to not exceeding the 25 percent of the the width of the.

I

The channel or the water body at mean low, low water next slide. Please.

I

um That allows us to transition nicely, and just just to this piece here relative to the other.

I

Coordination, that's required with other state and federal um agencies. Next slide.

I

uh We've reached out to the peas development authority, more particularly the chief harbour.

I

Master tracy shattuck. She has included a letter with this application, indicating that the proposed.

I

Docking structure will have no negative impact on navigation within the channel next slide. Please.

I

um Through our coordination with the new hampshire natural heritage bureau,.

I

uh Natural heritage bureau indicated this project may have the may have the possibility to interfere.

I

With short nose, sturgeon and atlantic sturgeon, as well as the threatened species marsh elder.

I

Next slide, we performed a plant survey and through our coordination with jessica bouchard, the new.

I

Hampshire heritage bureau, they have no concerns uh about impacting the marsh elder. It's not it's not.

I

Located near the vicinity of where we're proposing the stock next slide, we've also reached out to.

I

New hampshire, fish and game in in collaborating with them, they have confirmed with a time of year.

I

Restriction on the project being provided that we use best management practice practices during.

I

The construction of the new docking structure and we keep our impact to the window between.

I

November, 15th and march 15th they have no concerns about the project having any adverse impact.

I

On those two sensitive sturgeon species that I mentioned a moment ago, so in summary next slide.

I

uh So, in summary, uh the project that we've put forth here- um we've we've done our homework.

I

We've confirmed that it that poses no impact to any priority resource areas. Any sensitive areas.

I

Designated by des, through our functions and values,.

I

Assessment of the wetland, the docking structure, even with the 47-foot increase.

I

Poses no no threat or harm to to the existing functions and values of the resource.

I

uh We have raised it up a bit, so it can be more resilient to a sea level rise in the future.

I

And uh based on these indications, we feel that it's, this is the least impacting alternative and.

I

And we're here to to to listen any comments or concerns that you may have.

I

Thank you. Thank you, comments and questions from the commissioners.

E

um So, are you gonna have to cut down any of those trees that are kind of in that trajectory.

I

No good question you know from from this image here it uh this angle doesn't uh doesn't help.

I

But there's no no tree removal required for this project; okay and if you're so.

E

The proposed docking structure will be two feet taller than what is currently there.

E

Is that that's what you mean by two feet, that's correct! So is it starting further uh landward.

E

To get that slope or there's yeah, we have to come further on on land and we've called that out as a.

I

As a permanent impact area um to create a platform of sorts to get up a little bit higher, okay.

E

Go ahead, I have more, but let's uh I'll come back, they probably will be answered. Okay, well,.

B

I just said follow up to what you were asking is sort of like do. They propose to do anything.

B

For the actual access to it, where it's I mean it's right next to basically there's an edge.

B

There, what right by where they walk now for the trail, are they going to be changing that at all or.

I

I'm not sure what your question is the trail, so it looks like the access to the.

B

Dock is to the left of the trees right now and then right beyond that. It just slopes.

B

Straight down, um yeah we'll be able to put that that new access area um right in line.

I

With the with the within the area that you see there today, it won't have any impediment on.

I

Travel or or any trail just be a path still the way it is now. It's just a path.

B

Like not great, there's, no gravel, there's no formal, walkway or impervious area proposed up up to.

I

The structure that's correct: okay, okay, looks like it's lawn right kind of is that.

B

Yeah, it's like grass.

I

It's it's just lawn today. It's a pretty pretty compacted rooty system with.

I

Red pines that uh that surround it. Okay, sorry, it's okay! Do you want to do more sure? I have a couple.

E

More, um I didn't see a picture of what it of what the sea wall looked like from the water. Is that.

E

In good shape, but that's not going to have to be yeah, the seawall is. It is in very.

I

Good shape, in fact uh uh it was replaced. um I don't have the cory might have the exact date.

I

But was replaced just recently through it through a different uh wetlands permit, okay,.

E

And then my last question is um right: now in the photo you show that the ramp is being stored on.

E

The fixed pier is that going to continue with the new sure proposed dock and then the floats.

E

Are seasonal, so they'll be stored somewhere on the property, that's correct or off-site.

E

Okay, I think that's it for me. Thank you hi. Yes, I have a question, but I don't know if.

A

They would know the answer. um um Nudibranchs nudibranchs. Is that the how you pronounce it.

A

They're um they grow people come scuba divers coming from all over to see them in the wintertime.

A

uh The nudibranchs, it's a, I think, that's how you pronounce it and I'm glitching now so my apologies.

A

Okay, um but they're all they're all through the portsmouth harbor um on on sort of, um I think on.

A

The sea floor and you know, sort of on the you know the walls up toward land and do you know.

A

G, I know they're not endangered, so you probably didn't do a study on it. But did you come across.

A

Any of that in the because all these docking things are talking about building in the winter.

A

But that's when they thrive. um That's a great point. I'm not you know, I'm not familiar with that.

I

Species and uh but you have piqued my interest and uh I'd like to learn more about it and.

I

So they're really cool they're, multi-colored and they're amazing they're sort of like living.

A

Coral or you know like and anyway so yeah it sounds cool. Maybe you can send me an email.

I

On it one- and I can take a look- and I can't see any reason why not our the crews involved could.

I

Take a look before they engaged in the project.

A

And um I had something that, since the owners are here, is there something when I did a sidewalk? I.

A

Noticed that the stable still has like mats or the stalls have mats and um the hardware.

A

For the horse stuff, I know of a horse rescue in brentwood, um so it and they would probably be.

A

Willing to come pick them up. So, if you're looking at some time to get rid of that.

A

It could be recycled and reused so anyway, I don't know how we could touch base with, but anyway, okay.

A

That was it. Could you be sure to email me that piece about the particular species that you're.

I

Interested in about the new yeah thanks I'll get emails after great from peter, probably or.

A

Anyway, okay, question: yeah: it's really more an observation. We have very little control over docs.

C

For the most part, uh it's really governed mostly by the state, but you know I travel the waters.

C

Back there I have for decades, you know, and the growth and the number of docks is extraordinary.

C

uh In the last just 10 years, even the number and for people that kayak around, which I do often.

C

And other places you're losing places to fish and to kayak. You know you really are it's. It's.

C

Changing in that regard, so this is going from you know up to 123 feet out from shore. That's.

C

A long distance, you know it really is give it a lot of kayaks at 123 feet so.

C

It's an observation and uh if you really think you need it this long, you have a legal right to do it.

C

New hampshire, but uh you know if you think you can make it shorter. There are people out there.

C

That would appreciate that. Okay, thank you. Thank you. um I had a question. It's just good she's, not.

D

I don't see any hand raised or a question from jessica she's not waving at me. um You.

B

You were talking about the float, stops you you got, you are putting those in.

I

It's not necessary in this case, because um this the float will be able to stay um above the bottom.

I

Given given the water depth that we're trying to achieve they're, not necessary,.

I

In this instance, they're just required if they hit the bottom correct. um Thank you.

B

So you guys are going out uh extra 47 feet to get do you know how much.

B

You're gaining as far as depth with going out 47 feet yeah. uh It might be helpful to.

I

Perhaps go back a slide or two or uh pull up the.

D

I can I can open the plan as well wherever you want, I believe, we're gaining about about two.

I

Feet of water- oh this one, and that would certainly prevent the the bottom from touching and banging.

I

And some sometimes what you get is a suction effect. The boat will touch the bottom and then.

I

And then, and that itself you know is, is caused for turbidity. This might be.

I

It might be best. This image has a number number on it. It's got a six where the looks.

D

Like the existing dock is between the six and seven contour, which is a negative yeah.

C

They're getting two feet: it's a negative value. I think we're gaining about two feet of water.

I

um On a distance clearly, this this meeting for me has demonstrated that I need to get glasses.

A

I don't work that well.

B

Yeah, I mean that's a lot of distance for just two feet, which is too bad, but.

B

And my other question and which is some it's a question actually is on your nhb.

B

Memo- and there may have been follow-up to this, but your date on that has um 211 2021.

B

Valid until 211 2022., that's right. We um we have since updated that nhp report.

I

It's just not in here it's just not in that application, but that's a that's a great catch and.

I

We'll ensure that des has the most up-to-date nhp report. Okay, all right, thanks, yep.

B

I think I'm good everybody else, good, actually.

I

um We did receive a uh a letter from des when this permit application was arrived at des. We.

I

Inadvertently uh included the wrong nhp report, and we have since provided that to des um and.

I

And so that the application was deemed um complete and able to be reviewed by the reviewer if you'd.

I

Like a copy of the updated nhp report, we can send that to you. That's okay, trust. It's gonna go there.

B

Thanks, no other questions. Commissioners, anybody want to make a motion.

B

Yes, samantha I'll recommend approval for the standard, dredge and phil.

E

Wetlands permit application for 325 little harbor. Thank you. Second.

B

I'm missing allison I'll; second, it I'll. Second, oh thanks. Jeff great discussion.

B

um I just echo a little bit what ted said: it's anymore, that it's just too.

B

Bad, you guys have to go out that far to just gain the two feet, which is that's just the.

B

The the situation that you're in, um but it's a lot of distance for not much of a gain but other than.

B

That I don't have anything else. Thank you. um Yes. I do appreciate, though, that it does have the same.

E

uh Starting point on land and same trajectory, you're, not starting in a completely different.

E

Place and having to do a lot more grading and stuff like that, so I do. I do appreciate that.

A

Yeah yeah, I forgot, but I do, but I also agree with ted, but.

A

So many people have there's docks everywhere and it's just getting, but you know, is it.

A

They've already got a dock, is it their fault, but it does go out pretty far yeah. So I mean.

A

But it seems as if they're doing it very responsibly, the way they're doing it. It's.

A

Just I mean to build, you know the copper and the and the two feet higher. I think.

A

For the I mean better for that, but also it does let more light in they were bringing.

A

That up- and I think that you know that's really important so yeah- it's kind of.

B

Okay, thank you.

A

All right, I'm left two minds on this one or like I appreciate it, but yeah, I'm not yeah. It's catch-22.

B

All right we'll do a vote in favor all those in favor roll call. Yes, there we go.

F

Yeah sam? Yes, yes, barbara ted! Yes, yes! Yes, yes,.

D

Okay motion passes thanks jay great. Thank you for your time. Will you be sending out.

I

Any kind of letter to the es. Okay! Thank you so much. Thank you for your time. The next few days.

B

Okay, next on the agenda is 137 north west street state wetland get her email sure yeah. Thank you.

B

A

So I go to the packet here. There's something good in these.

J

Sorry waiting on me, I'm sort of, but not really I'm sorry! No! That's! Okay! I don't think I said is.

B

There anybody here to speak to us- oh okay, you're good to go though. Okay, thank you. I'm steve, reicher.

J

From amba engineering um here today on behalf of property owners are gregory and amanda moore, no.

J

The applicant is daryl murrow and the site is on northwest street here in portsmouth.

J

um Some uh commission members may be familiar with this site I'll just give a little bit of a brief.

J

History of of how we got here today, uh john from my office, who presented the first project tonight,.

J

Had handled all the previous uh board meetings up until today, I'm handling this one, because.

J

It's a des application and that's what I do so this project was granted some variances.

J

In the fall late fall of 2021., the project then proceeded to the planning board in november.

J

Where they, the planning board, reviewed a conditional use, permit application.

J

For wetlands, as well as a subdivision application at that time, they approved the subdivision. They.

J

Did not approve the conditional use. Wetlands application um john from our office went back to.

J

The drawing board with the applicants and came back to the planning board um in january of 22.

J

With a different plan which I'll talk about today, which was subsequently then approved,.

J

Now we are still in need of a wetland and the shoreline application, so I'm here today.

J

To present the des wetlands application uh answer, any questions take any feedback and then.

J

Ds will be looking for a letter from this board um with any concerns comments, um so you may recall.

J

This site uh was once one lot. The subdivision has been approved, we're only showing the.

J

The the lot that's located to the east, it was one lot subdivided into two lots. um If I could have.

J

Peter you could just go to the existing conditions, real, quick or the subdivision plan, either or just.

J

Sort of shows that one's great that shows the whole the uh actually go back to the see this one.

J

Yes, okay, yep, so uh this was all one lot. It is now two lots. There's an existing home on what will be.

J

I'm like j need glasses too lot. Two there's an existing home. There.

J

You can see located to the east of the home on lot 2. There is the new property line.

J

Which defines the boundary for lot 1. lot. One is currently undeveloped. However, there is a.

J

There is a sewer pump station located on this lot that the city uses there's also a gravel.

J

Turnaround area that the city uses to maintain and do their pump station things that they do.

J

There have been some easements put in place for the city to continue to use that pump station area.

J

And we've reconfigured the gravel turnaround. The gravel turnaround will no longer exist, it will be.

J

The gravel will be removed, uh a portion of that which I'll talk about in a little bit.

J

Will be a buffer planting area, but eventually it'll be it'll, be all vegetated as well as.

J

The new configuration just shows um a driveway of sorts that enters the property where a vehicle.

J

Could park and they could perform their maintenance on the pump station.

J

So it is a big plan set, it's probably not exactly all applicable to a ds app, but I.

J

Wanted to provide it for for the board just so that they could see everything that is happening.

J

Let's move the sheet c2.

J

Which is the subdivision site plan? It shows the the proposed.

J

Proposed home that will go on this lots. There is also a attached garage associated.

J

With a driveway you can see in the in the front, there's a walkway to the front door.

J

The uh eastern side of the property is where the pump station exists. There's.

J

A gravel turnaround area- that's shaded! You can see that we are proposing a uh 2 311 square foot.

J

Buffer planting area buffer planting schedules located on the top of this plan, there will be 21.

J

Plants placed in this area, they are all native and they are outlined in that planting schedule above.

J

I do want to mention those are three to four gallon size plants that I've specced, so those.

J

Are pretty pretty good size shrubs to begin with we're not talking about small little spindly.

J

Ones these are fairly good sized that buffer there is, I think, going to be pretty important.

J

Given the fact that the route 1 bypass is located right to the north, there's a very steep slope.

J

And any storm water that comes off, that slope is going to need to pass through this buffer.

J

Area before it reaches north mill pond, which is on the southern side of northwest street.

J

A few things to note: there's stone, drip and associated with the proposed home that should.

J

Also capture and infiltrate some storm water that is on this plan that you see c2 sheets, c2,.

J

Also shows the proposed turnaround area for the city to use for their pump station maintenance.

J

Moving to sheet.

J

C5 is the des permit plan.

J

Which is obviously color coded, there's a lot of different impact areas that I've.

J

That I've called out on this plan just to try to make it as clear as possible.

J

um I do want to note that only a portion of this home is located in the.

J

In the 100 foot buffer, I can also say that after the first trip to the planning board.

J

The proposed structure was moved further west to reduce the amount of structure located.

J

In the 100-foot buffer and before I came, I actually did a little bit of math.

J

What did I do with that plan?.

J

So the previous uh plan set, which is, I believe, the plan set, that this commission saw the first time.

J

Around had uh 1449 square feet of structure in the 100 foot buffer and under proposed.

J

Conditions now it's been reduced to 978 square feet, so it's been a reduction in structure there.

J

Another thing I want to point out on this plan: there's a catch basin located.

J

In the proposed turnaround, maybe I can figure out how to use this too.

J

Catch basin is located right. There.

J

And from that catch basin, basically, is a discharge pipe that comes across northwest street.

J

To a point located about right here and in your packet should be a photo log.

J

Inside the des application that shows that discharge pipe- it's quite hung at this point.

J

It's if I had to guess about three feet above the surface of the land, where it discharges.

J

There's a pretty good scoured channel there now over time. Obviously,.

J

We're proposing to put in some rip-rap outlet protection at the end of that pipe, which should.

J

Eliminate that scouring in the future, so that is what that small little green circular area is.

J

Right there is the rip-rap outlet protection and on the detail sheet, there's a detail.

J

For that, as well pretty small in size, it's only 45 square feet just enough to.

J

Provide some protection when that water comes out of that pipe at a decent speed that it doesn't.

J

Harm the salt marsh any further in that location. This is a minor impact project because of that.

J

Components, we do have some some salt marsh impact which automatically kicks it into a minor impact.

J

If we didn't have that component, this would probably be a minimum impact.

J

Expedited or a minimum under ds rules, but we're happy to go through this process.

J

We feel it's best that this the city has this protection in this location.

J

Jumping to just a couple other things I want to mention.

J

The coastal vulnerability assessments with sea level rise.

J

The hot elevation on the north mill pond here is about at elevation five, the proposed garage.

J

J

Which is at elevation, 12 and the home itself is 13.

J

13.75 so the predicted or projected sea level rise in the year. 2100 is 2.9 feet.

J

If I take five- and I add 2.9, that gets me to 7.9, so we have plenty of freeboard to uh to handle.

J

Any predicted sea level rise in the next 100 years for this house and that's in that current location.

J

It's a big application, I'm sure you'll have plenty of questions.

J

And I'm happy to answer those for you.

B

Thank you, questions from the commissioners. Yes, the proposed turnaround is that uh impervious.

J

Great question so the planning board- and I believe this board wanted it to be pervious.

J

And upon further looking at that, that specific location is only at elevation, nine.

J

And we thought that with projected sea level rise and also the associated ground water level rise.

J

Associated with that probably really wouldn't perform as needed, we could have made it pervious.

J

But also if we did we'd have to under drain it and the under drains would go right to that catch.

J

Basin, so it was a balancing act, we're trying to figure out how to handle the storm water from.

J

That small little area it's going to go to the catch basin regardless so.

E

um And then same question regarding the it looks like the front.

E

Probably the front door uh sidewalk slash steps is that uh pervious good question.

J

You don't see it specked on our plans. Let me just check the detail sheet.

J

I don't see a pervious technology on the detail sheet, so.

J

So I would say no as as currently depicted any, is any reasoning as to why not, as far as you know,.

J

I don't know because the there is a small little proposed patio, which is porous, which.

E

Is porous yeah, yeah, so, okay, uh something I could certainly mention to the property owner. I mean.

J

You could use the same product for both surfaces.

B

Right now, yep feathers.

B

um I did have a question about the outfall and the vegetation. That's above it do you know what that.

B

Is it's all like right where the outfall the pipe comes out, I think most of it is honeysuckle.

B

So that that's going to remain on my recollection, yes,.

B

You're not touching that above it or anything. No, we didn't really want to open that can of worms.

B

And speaking of can of worms, was there any discussion about lowering it? You said it's three.

B

Feet above what mean high tide, or uh no it's not three, it's, I would say it's about three feet above.

J

You know the soil, that's now below it and obviously over time that that distance is.

J

Increasing but I think using the riprap outlet protection underneath it's gonna.

J

Gonna bring it up so that that distance is much less. You know what I mean the rip net.

J

The riprap's gonna have some thickness to it that should help that it's like a plunge pool there now.

J

Yeah yep, it's pretty nasty so um and I also have a question about the pump station.

B

If um I know when we saw it originally, you guys didn't know exactly what was going to happen.

B

There um and I think the pump station's staying alone, so it's just the turnaround and the pervious.

B

That that was the only thing that was kind of unknown right, exactly yep.

J

Yep, um and can you speak a little bit more to the difference between what we saw, because I know.

B

We did not like when I went to the planning board. There were changes after the last one.

B

Obviously you moved the house, is there any other? um I believe I have that plan in my hand,.

J

um The only change is the house was moved um well, there's a couple changes and it's.

J

It's it's the house, so the house has moved further west to be further out of the buffer.

J

There was also a driveway associated with the garage and the garage doors were facing east right.

J

So now the garage doors are facing the street and there's a small small driveway, as you can.

J

See as depicted on on the plans here so yeah, you didn't want headlights on the neighbors correct.

J

Yeah, that was one of the complaints or one of the comments by the abutter across the street, was.

J

Under that configuration um there may have been headlights shining in in her house.

J

With the coming and going of traffic, this should eliminate that okay.

J

Because you'd have to pull in and back out of this I mean, I guess you could.

J

Back in and pull up, I don't think most people do that. Okay, thank you sure.

B

Yes, um I see the stone drip apron on the north side of the house. Is I'm not sure where the peak.

E

Of this house is, is it going parallel to the stone drip apron so that half the roof.

E

Will go into that and half I'm not sure where the other half goes or or is it perpendicular to the.

J

That's a great question: I I don't have an answer to that. Okay, because it looks like.

E

Probably half as being of the roof.

E

Runoff is going to the stone drip apron, but I don't feel like the whole thing is.

E

And obviously, more concerned about the part, that's in the buffer than right sure.

J

Yeah I apologize. I haven't seen an architectural set for this project.

C

Just a comment: um I'm gonna vote against this. I voted against the conditional use permit for.

C

This property, uh I think at the january meeting and I didn't think it met the six criteria so.

C

I'm gonna be consistent and I'm not going to vote in support of this okay. Thank you. Thanks.

B

um Any other questions for the applicant no being said. um I have a question, though,.

B

So nika had to leave. So are we at that stage where it's going to be a close vote? We've got four. We.

B

Have four plus we have five plus plus sorry, five? I know we have quorum, but are we okay with that? You.

B

Know we need four, so we need four right. We only need four, but if, if there's four that's when we.

B

Give the option four at four: okay, thank you to not have to yeah. Okay, so there's no options. They.

D

They don't need all the votes, they need four out of five right.

B

Okay sounds good, I think that's, I think, that's what it is. um I don't have a set of rules.

D

C

You gotta get isaac to add the rules and procedures in here yeah. You can have it.

E

As a permanent yeah that and appropriate the sections of state law too, so we have something.

C

That we can refer to here, you could just add it in here and bookmark it so that if you wanted.

C

To quickly look, we could look at the rules and procedures of the appropriate statutes, yeah yeah.

D

When for the person's four members, the application reported the opportunity to.

D

Request application b reschedule okay, so it's at five, so okay, you're good.

D

Thank you all right. Does anybody want to make a motion to whatever.

B

Hello, barbara okay, thank you I'll make a motion to recommend approval for the state wetland bureau.

E

Application for 137 northwest street and I have two stipulations. um The first is: is that front.

E

uh Proposed sidewalk and steps use the same.

E

Porous material as they're using for the patio on the east side of the house.

E

And then two would be.

E

That they address the roof runoff for the portion of the roof that is not draining to the drip apron.

E

B

Anybody want a second cut.

G

I'll second, that, okay, okay, thanks jess, okay, any discussion.

B

You already gave your points, so um um I agree with ted with, like you know, one we should.

A

Be consistent with meeting um the criteria, um however, I feel like this law this. These lots.

A

A

Damaged um or so have have been so disturbed by human activity and with a street even between.

A

It um between that and the waterway, if, if the water run off like especially with the roof.

A

If that's a gable roof that there and it the the broadside, is coming down toward the street.

A

You know that runoff and it probably would help the neighbors right across the street if.

A

They don't have water pouring down um but um yeah. I so I'm not really saying anything constructive.

A

I guess, but I also didn't have as much time to mull over this one, because I just got it.

A

Some of the details more later in it, but I do um I mean when you go and look at the like the drainage.

A

That definitely there's definitely an improvement. It seems um at how they're dealing like any.

A

Anything would be an improvement with that storm drain. It seems like am. I is that am I off.

A

Base or is that accurate, because, right now, it's pretty bad seems like that blue tube, coming out.

A

It's like, I saw it from the bypass and it's like oh yeah. I think it was anyway.

A

I don't know, I guess that's the end of my discussion. So, okay.

A

Thank you. Jessica's got her hand raised. Okay, just go ahead jess. um I would just say that I.

G

You know I too, it does feel hard at this point to vote for things.

G

To put something in a hundred foot buffer when there isn't anything there, um however, that said.

G

I do appreciate this applicant's efforts. They, I know, even just in the times that they saw us.

G

They attempted to pull more of the project out of the buffer and it looks like they've done that.

G

Even further, and I appreciate the plantings and the thoughtfulness of really trying to address.

G

You know whether it's stormwater or other impacts as best they could. So I do appreciate.

G

All the efforts that they've put into this project and trying to make it reasonable.

B

Thank you jess. Yes, there was no question. Okay, okay by accident,.

B

um Yeah and I I was just going to say that it is a really impacted piece of property already and.

B

It is really great that you that the house ended up being moved quite a bit out of the buffer.

B

And there's been a lot of effort and I I think with you with samantha's conditions on there.

B

With the previous walkway in the patio would be really helpful and then also I mean we're looking.

B

At you know really, this is a recommendation to the state for the permit and they're going to be.

B

Looking really at that outfall a lot and that's an improvement on what you've got there at this point.

B

I don't know, I can't really see how you can improve on that any better.

B

Differently, so I would vote in favor of it so yeah. So there's no other discussion. You want to do a.

B

Roll call, though we had a motion a second right, yeah, okay, um abigail. Can you start.

A

With somebody else, I need just every minute I can get there think about this. No uh jess, yes,.

D

um Sorry, I'm I'm uh ready to try and write it down, but I'm slow, okay. Well, I can't go ahead.

D

Let's see sam yes, yeah, barbara, yes and abigail.

A

I gotta go back to her. Oh man.

A

Because I, as jess said, don't like seeing things go on the buffer um and ted. But.

A

A

D

Okay, so it's a four to three: where can I not worry in favor.

A

No, I don't know that seems irresponsible too, but um no, what I mean you didn't see it we've.

B

All seen it before, you know you, you come in this way. It's up to you, that's true, and then I didn't.

A

See the point like, I didn't see the other one. What is that then? We'd only have four. We only.

B

Have four, but so then do we have you need to be three to one instead of four to one.

B

Yeah, we put it past yeah, you're, right, okay, uh I'll vote; yes, okay, okay, four to one.

B

Okay, 21. all right. Thank you very much. Thanks for your time tonight take care 41 in favor.

B

Yeah, sorry, it's like a tough one. All right! I want to help you without swaying you. No, no. uh I mean.

A

I figure if this, if they can build that house on bell island in the buffer zone,.

A

I kind of feel like well. These guys should be able to build this here, because I was like um so that.

A

Was sort of my deciding factor there in my own head and I do not approve of the fellow one, but.

A

It's like, um I feel well, the people with the most money shouldn't just always get what they want.

A

And I'm on tape.

B

So for other business um we had a few things for other business. I don't know if anybody.

B

Else had something that they wanted to bring up, or we discuss things. I have three small items.

A

For other business, okay- and I don't know if they really fit under and and it would be nice if.

A

Everybody on the panel because I was going to send an email, but I thought well no best.

A

So one is, um I was at the dbw about a month ago, it's just after our last meeting.

A

And one of the guys working there said you know it would be really great if the schools would.

A

Every every class would get a trip to a land, um the landfills, to show how much garbage we.

A

Generate we humans generate so I said I would pass that on and I don't I know this is not.

A

Specifically under the commission's purview, but there are a lot of people on this board.

A

On this board that are commissioned, that um that have connections with schools and know.

A

What what the schools are doing in terms of curriculum, and is that something that um that.

A

I should follow up, or would anybody on the commission want to follow up on.

A

That idea, I thought, was a great idea because I mean the kids probably know, but you know you.

A

Get a kid to know it and then the whole family ends up learning about it. So um second thing was.

A

um Is there any plan on the south for the south mill pond to kind of rest to.

A

Restore that you know try to give it an ecosystem that it should have, instead of just sort of the.

A

Cut lawn so close to it, and that worked in with the middle schools right across.

A

The street, and that would be a great science um project, maybe for some of the anyway, so.

A

Is this all off the mark? I think this is all good stuff to have on the record and yeah. That's well.

A

That's what I figured and that's why it's like not doing an email, have it in a meeting and.

A

It's on the public and the third thing is- and I just learned this recently- there is a town in.

A

Wisconsin is it um that's doing a no-mo may where the bees need to have the weeds, and I guess and.

A

Dandelions might be one of them, and so the whole town has decided not to mow their lawns for may.

A

And I just thought if anybody feels like you know doing something like that. Oh I thought.

A

I'd just put it out there, since you guys were here and I'm sorry I couldn't get to the.

A

That um the zoom thing about the shoreland, the the shoreline yeah, because I had to work but.

A

It's recorded, though, right um yeah, I think it is recorded.

A

Did you did anybody see it and was it I did and was it I didn't see it? Would you recommend doing.

B

It yeah, okay, I thought it was interesting. You can kind of zoom it'd be great to watch it as.

B

A recording because you can kind of go through the stuff that you're not really interested, but.

B

There was a lot of um like unh dave verdict gave background information. Why we we need to do it.

B

Which was kind of helpful, I think the educational decision making and then also for understanding.

B

You know the goals of it and understanding a little bit about the technology behind it. How it's.

B

Done: okay, yeah, I thought I saw them do the wagon hill farm one, but I heard this one was really good.

D

It was several several of them yeah sites yeah, I'm trying to remember what they were swagging hill.

B

Farm was one of them only. They didn't really focus in on wagon hill that much there were three others.

D

Three others, so four total there were four well wagon hill was just sort of a side: discussion, okay,.

B

So, but thanks for sharing that um I can um did we send it out. I guess you said about it. I'm sending.

B

That to the registration for the original I'll see if I can find the thing and send it out.

A

If you want, I can isaac forwarded on to reported on the registration, yeah, okay, so I'll look for the.

D

uh Recorded ones yeah, I think, if you go to that link they I I went to it after and I think I could.

A

I could watch it. I just didn't have the time, I'm not positive, but I had that um yeah. I got that.

A

I have a lasting impression of that, but don't count on that.

B

Yeah and then other stuff you just talked about um so the trip to the landfill, so that would be.

B

Waste management um and it would be maybe getting in touch with brian. I think I think.

D

uh I mean if a school you'd have to get. I think, let's start with the schools and ask.

D

I bet someone at public works would be willing to. You know, help organize or work with. I think.

D

A phone couple phone calls, you know, take some work, but we're it. Yes, that's just saying these.

A

Might be good ones to see me, I know people have people can go directly to um rochester and see the.

D

The site turnkey and I know people have done that tour and they'll arrange it. If you you just.

D

Have to organize it yeah, maybe a school culture. The person there was going, not you know, sort of.

A

Recommending not to see sort of how they work as much as just to see the magnitude I mean he.

A

He's like we really need people to know how much waste is out there and how much it is piling up.

A

And some dpws you go to and you you see, you know where or not dpw's, but some landfills. You don't.

A

Always see the huge pile of stuff, you see what they're doing to like mitigate it, but you anyway.

A

So but it was I was. I was really cute that he, you know anyway, just an interim thought.

C

Is that when you talk about a field trip with schools, it involves buses and funds, and all that.

C

Kind of stuff- and I wonder if there isn't a really good uh movie or youtube on this particular issue,.

C

That might be easier to recommend because you know most teachers. I know love to have a show movie.

C

For their classes- and it might be popular, but I bet there's some good ones out there. I don't know.

C

I'm sure I mean I don't know what all the school's curriculums are for earth day, but I'm I've got to.

E

Assume something's got to be in there regarding recycling our waste, our footprint, all that, but.

B

Yeah I mean I can, if you're willing to follow up with it abby I with the school part, I can send you.

B

Information from organizations because I used to be the recycling coordinator in the state, so we.

B

Have we worked a lot with schools and they do they have curriculums and um for waste management, but.

B

Also for composting, and things like that so and the northeast resource recovery association is.

B

Something that um they have a lot of information yeah too, so I can send you stuff sure I just don't.

A

Have the connections to the schools because I've never had kids here in portsmouth and um well.

A

Haven't had kids period, so um anybody nice enough- you are quite old now, relatively speaking, so.

A

But so now mika's daughter was doing something at the high school yeah right, because her kids.

C

Are pretty active in the schools? Yeah? Okay, yes, and I realized yeah she's she's, probably one of.

A

The people to hear yeah, she's gone so and then and the south mill pond does have a history of having.

B

Restoration done on it with, I think what was the paid verdict? There was some salt marsh restoration.

D

Work there was some shellfish, um I think you were asking suzuki about buffer vegetation and.

D

It would be nice, and then you know the more we can is anybody I mean. Has that met with resistance? Is.

A

Anybody you know, no, I think it's just. It needs to be uh planned and forward. Okay, so nobody's.

A

So you know the conservation cushion could work on it and you know try to get the city to do.

D

It through some kind of capital you know like I did with the with the try to do capital planning.

D

um And the highest, the library and the middle school would be good, yeah.

B

Yeah library, that's right, yeah yeah I mean it could be a good teaching classroom.

A

I mean you know last year I was talking about who they are. You know they're planting trees.

D

Out there, but um the other issue is: I noticed that the cherry trees on the city hall side.

D

Get flooded more and more every year, so um if it was salt marsh vegetation, it would be good.

D

It was well tolerant, yeah, but yeah. It would be a good one to plan carefully um and maybe it could.

D

Make it resilient- maybe it's a bigger plant that has a little berm in it right, yeah like that, so.

A

That's where you're going to prescott park, so I think it might be more of a master plan effort.

D

And maybe it's something okay, the city could do. I think you know it's a good idea.

A

But anyway, just thinking I was just thinking and kids like to be outside doing stuff, so.

A

um I thought well, if they're planting well people love to use that area, so we wouldn't want to make.

D

It too huge because he didn't get pushed back, but I think a buffer, effective buffer could be.

D

Put out there and not take up all the space yeah yeah, I don't have to take up all space.

A

But I I think even those people that do like to you know walk the dogs around the thing.

A

I think they probably enjoy having something more than just lawn. To look at you know and and seeing.

A

Activity uh of of different well, I'm sure the dogs would love the birds or squirrels or whatever.

B

They don't go in the water. Well, that's the biggest concern the weather warms up.

C

Is you have a lot of tourists, then I've seen kids in that water.

C

Yeah, you know you must see them up to your office window and I just wish they'd post more signs. You.

C

Know they've got one by each outfall. You know it's an outfall. What's that mean you.

C

Know but uh that we tell dog owners all the time, because I walk the dog around there. Sometimes.

B

Okay, thank you, wrote them down I'll, follow up on one with you for sure. It's actually.

C

It's 1.7 million gallons of cso water flows through the south no pond. Every year.

C

Even after the new storm, you do it after spending all that money. It's amazing.

B

I have one request on uh ford new business. I want to put this. I don't think our rules.

C

And procedures are that bad? I don't know in spite of what robert might think so, but.

C

And I don't want to spend a lot of time on it. You know, I think they're kind of okay. If we.

C

Could just make a request? The commission make a request or to peter of the law department to just.

C

Plow through them and tell us where we're inconsistent with state law or whether they.

C

Think they really need improvement, and I think that would be a good jumping off point and then.

C

Would speed up any efforts that we might have in trying to straight these things out.

D

Well, on that point, barbara had asked that we put on at least the correction to the to the.

D

Secret ballot- and I I didn't realize it had to be posted five days in advance of the meeting, so we.

D

One day late, we decided to put it on all right. I I set it on so it's my fault, but next month we.

D

Want to put that on, but I don't know if you want to take that next step and have them review it. I.

D

Think I don't know if we can do it by the next month. We can try well, even if it takes them. Two.

C

Months, I think it would be operate with what we got but have them review it. You know and see what.

C

They say I'm sure they're, going to probably be doing something similar for planning board. I'm.

C

Not sure but rob bob had mentioned that they're going to look something to the planning board too.

C

So does that work? Okay with the workload, though, should we just well, it might not happen as fast.

D

We could do the one change and then have them, because we know that one is invalid right. So.

D

And then have them look at it in the meantime and then bring it back for a bigger revision. If that's.

D

I'll check with the time frame, if they can do it in a month, then we'll have it on back. We'll have.

D

It all next month, okay, and if not we'll, just because the other stuff is just redlining, that.

B

Too, in the red line thing, so it's pretty simple. So yes, we don't have it on the agenda for today, but.

B

um But the other stuff was a little bit. um Did you have anything else? No.

B

Along those lines um ted where you mentioned that, with the what was going on with the rules.

B

And procedures um we had originally talked about having an actual scheduling, a meeting.

B

Among the conservation commission, with legal on some other things that were brought up so.

B

We were thinking if there, since there's a little bit of time today and knew it was a like agenda.

B

Maybe to discuss some of those um and and make sure you know that, maybe it's something that we.

B

Can just be discussing at the end of a meeting a couple of times or something or just today.

B

One was a rules and procedures, so that's really great to have some follow through that and not.

D

To interrupt, I told bob that we'd have some kind of discussion. I don't think there's any role for.

D

Him, but if we have questions we can have him come down. I told him we're here. I don't know.

D

If he's going to come down or not, but okay he's going to try to if he can okay sorry questions.

D

With this, has he picked his month yet his what his mom was very tired, yeah? No, I don't know.

D

I haven't heard, um and there were, I think I have three other things that were brought up. um One was.

B

The annual report, which is something that totally a lot of other towns, do and um it makes sense.

B

So you had offered to be able to. I can I can yeah, follow up and see what we would need to do and.

D

We haven't done it, so that's something we certainly can do. We have plenty of information.

B

um When does that need to you, don't know, probably.

B

But I think it's an annual report, so I guess whenever you decided, we decided to do it, but.

D

That's what I'll have to look into is, if there's a specific time frame or if it's just once a year.

C

Even if it can be something that can be done in conjunction with uh the budgetary process,.

C

Is something you might have to do anyway, relative to the budget? Do you do narratives to the budget.

C

Or things that you're talking about in there, I'm not sure just don't really do much right now for.

D

The budget, but we could uh do it that way or just you know we have a lot of. We keep track of all of.

D

Our conservation lines, we don't put a report out per se, so um it could just be a matter of.

D

Looking around at all the lands, we haven't posting that list and any updates. I think.

D

It would be pretty straightforward and not a, I don't think it would be exhaustive.

D

And we could add to it as years go on, but I sent you the uh report that the city of south.

C

Portland does that tex hauser sent me he retired as the planning director a year ago there they.

C

Did they've done marvelous work in south portland maine, I have to say and recreating their downtown.

C

And fixing it up, and you know, from a pretty industrial place, they've done some nice work.

D

Yeah I mean I I did look at that. I think I'd want to look at what new hampshire.

D

Statute and requirements say if there's a specific requirement, make sure we're meeting all that too.

B

Okay, the other one was.

B

I'm going backwards on this was other board members, um members being able to be.

B

On different boards in portsmouth- and I think you spoke- that's the one.

D

I did speak with bob about and he said that it depends on the member and the.

D

Board, really, I guess, and the board that they can't be a member on other boards- is the planning board.

D

So a member, that's on the planning board, can't be a member of a motherboard. Is what bob told.

D

Me find the statute and send it to you. I read it, you know and there's no no well, it could be a city.

D

Rule it could be a charter could be an internal rule yeah, but by state law, because I checked it.

C

Out and uh yeah that could be on both you know I'll. I can I'll get him to get me a reference, but.

D

He seemed pretty, he seemed pretty confident about it, so we can look up the reference.

B

um And then the the last one was putting items on the agenda, which is something we had um talked.

B

About sort of the process of getting things put on the agenda and what sort of is uh you know.

B

Appropriate to be on the agenda, and things like that, I think and um and that was.

B

Something else I think you had brought up is trying to get things on the agenda.

B

And normally the process is to go to the chair and have a conversation which I am great fine to do.

B

um And have that conversation? And you know we can figure out what does need to be put on the agenda.

B

um I think you were going to add something to that, maybe or well. I think this, the the one.

D

Item that you wanted to put on, there was a pfas item and I think that there's a discussion about.

D

Whether pfas is appropriate, I think the role of the conservation commission is is and has been.

D

uh The open space in the city and wetland permit review and things like that, but there's really.

D

No role that I've seen for pfas and there's no regulatory role for the commission or the.

D

City, even on pfas, so it's a it's more of a advocacy approach rather than a regulatory.

D

Approach so I guess I guess that would have to be a discussion about why that would fit and.

D

um You know, I think it might be important as a public outreach or a you know, informational item.

D

But in terms of having the board have a work group or something along those lines, I think that would.

D

Be a separate committee or a separate work group from yeah. How I see it, um maybe I mean we've got a.

C

Very you know: we've got a very broad mission according to state law and city ordinance to.

C

Protect, you know, certainly uh water and water resources, no doubt about it, and we have a clear.

C

Role there and I think that's what this is: look the well. Let's just look at this from.

C

Big picture for a second okay, the city built a brand new field, synthetic field right on top of.

C

We were under court order to agree to put in a regional wastewater treatment system, so we put.

C

It in there- and then we put this new built, this new field and all 100 of the water that drains off.

C

Of that goes directly into this treatment system and then directly into the creek, we did testing.

C

And found this pfast and pfas was running off, not only that they found pre-fest. They found pfas at.

C

The high school field, but you find it everywhere, ted, so that my point is that there's no regulatory.

C

Standard for open water for pfas. Well, that's what the white goats will tell you, but uh not the.

C

Scientists and academicians that study and measure this stuff so because we found it des on their own.

C

Tested for pfes and found high concentrations down there in sagimo creek right over by the.

C

High school field, they found other places, and there certainly could be reasons for it.

D

I saw the results from that creek and when you say, high concentrations you're comparing them to.

D

Drinking water instead of surface water and the human exposure to drinking water is different.

D

So I guess my point isn't that we shouldn't pay attention to it. I think it's important to pay.

D

Attention to, but my point is that this commission, you know it has a limited amount of time and.

D

Effort and what it uses is rules to follow and there's not really rules to put that into context.

D

So if it was a work group on outside of the commission- and they had some uh recommendations,.

D

For how regulations could work if there was some regulatory standard to meet or something like that.

C

Land use board so it's supposed to use some sort of ordinance or rules to operate, and I.

D

Think that's what we do well, I don't have my rules in front of me and I don't have the state law in.

C

Front of me, but I could you know, I think, that's a discussion. We should definitely have and I think.

C

It is a responsibility if my, if my kid's going to be playing in that field, I want to know and.

C

Someone take it off to somebody, and I think that our mission by state law and by you know the city.

C

Ordinances is very broad to protect water, it doesn't say, regulations or regulator. We have.

C

An opportunity what what the the interesting part is, the founder of the first executive director.

C

For the the state uh uh conservation association was this interesting, he said I met him, he's an.

C

Interesting older gentleman and uh because he's he was there 50 years ago, you know- and he said when.

C

They were first passed conservation commissions. The reason they did it in new hampshire is because.

C

It was working in massachusetts, they passed the massachusetts and they wanted to do it here and.

C

The key question that came up was: do you want to be regulatory? Do you want to be advisory? What.

C

What do you want to do and, and he said that they talked about it at length and he said advisory. He.

C

Said because conservation commissions can advise on anything relative to the environment, relative.

C

To protecting water, they can advise on anything and that's our power is advisory. So I think if.

C

Somebody's got you've got an idea. There wants to research, it a little share it with a recipient.

C

And say maybe the conservation commission would support a film program in the public schools and.

C

Just write our recommendation and give it to the school board. I don't know I mean that's how I.

C

Mean in terms of participating the things that we can do one volunteer, one of us or two of us.

C

The three of us have an issue: they can work it up. A little bit provide that information talk about.

C

The conservation commission to see if it's something we want to support, there's a lot that.

C

We could be doing, for instance, I'm not wild about some of the new construction in town, but there are.

C

New building products out there that are amazing, they're sustainable, you know. So if you look at.

C

This new market building that they're building you can see the outside wood structures that are built.

C

And they they can be used instead of steel and they're stronger than steel. The way they construct.

C

These now so construction materials are changing. You know who makes recommendations for sustainable.

C

Construction, you know or healthy buildings or things. I don't think that ideas are.

D

Unfounded or not good, I guess I'm just saying the role of the conservation commission has.

D

Never been that and I think you'd have to work to expand that role somewhere in the city. From what.

D

What my role is with the commission, you know it's a capacity thing too. The city staff has.

D

To help the commission and if you're, going to expand the role and the outreach and the type.

D

Of work they do, then it has to be thought out and planned and I just don't think that's the.

D

Role right now it could be another commission or a council committee altogether. That could do that.

D

I just I don't know, I guess I'm still not seeing how the conservation commission itself.

D

Has that role yet I mean there, there is other avenues for sure I mean there is a pfas advisory.

B

Group that, and I think people are appointed to it, but um I mean you're aware of what everybody else.

B

Is doing with the pfas you're pretty entrenched in it, so you know that there's a lot of other people.

B

Dealing with it that you know have more background in it or more expertise um and the same thing with.

B

Sustainability, I know that allison's been sort of our good cross person between the sustainability.

B

Committee and and they're talking about those things that you're talking about.

B

For sure, um I think it's good for us to know what everybody's doing, but it's sort of like what are.

B

What what direction are we going to go in and how much bandwidth do we have and then how.

B

Much expertise do we have is, is a little bit and what's appropriate too, I mean I don't want to be.

B

I think we should be battling the city necessarily on some things, although I think the watchdog.

B

Part of it is great, but I don't think we're really the advocacy and the watchdog people.

B

Other than within our you know, jurisdiction. Well, I think it's how we define ourselves and I think we.

C

Need a discussion with the state law in front of us and the city audience in front of us. You know.

B

Okay, I think that'll clarify it a little.

C

I don't know, and it would be good to have you know mika and uh when these folks are available.

C

Too, you know like henry brings it's interest. It's fun sitting next to him at these meetings, because.

C

He's a construction cost estimator. So if you're talking about building a building or is there.

C

An environmental problem there or anything like that. It knows all the ins and outs and.

C

Some of the newest building materials and things of that nature, so we've got.

C

People who have specific talents that might be interested in doing the research and.

C

Finding out what other people do and then making your recommendations, our fellow members.

B

Come back to the commission with recommendations yeah not too similar to what I did on the.

C

Education program, you know I spent a lot of time researched it like crazy. You know and found what I.

C

Thought was a good model and brought prior to the commission and that's I I'm concerned that they're.

C

Behind schedule, because they were supposed to have a draft in march or some kind of postcard, so I.

C

I've communicated, I think, he's got a draft. Oh I've seen him. Oh really didn't he just tell that to you.

D

I thought I said they're working on something. Okay, I thought, because I checked back with them.

C

Brian last week, I guess because they were going to have them, tell us if they really want to.

C

Attend a meeting to look at it, you know I told him to go through. You know, go through you guys.

B

Yeah, I don't know what to do well, I think it's when we're all together. I I think we should have.

C

A discussion about it- maybe you know when there isn't a lot of things on meeting like today.

C

Would have been a good time well and I think we're having that discussion right now. I think.

D

You know there's as far as I can tell I don't know of any commissions in the state that are.

D

Doing an advocacy role versus a regulatory role and you know we're regulating wetlands. You know.

D

In a way, providing regulatory support to the planning board we're reviewing conservation.

D

Lands- those are things that are spelled out. Those are that's. Why there's a pub.

D

Current use penalty and money going into our conservation fund to work on that.

D

And you know, I agree that we should be doing a conservation annual report or something like that.

D

But that's that's kind of where the role is within state statute and law and what people do and.

D

I feel like this, this commission for at least the 20 years I've been working with it.

D

That's what the role has been, I'm not saying that there's no room to expand that role, but.

D

I have found that over those 20 years, they've been pretty busy working on wetland permits and we try.

D

To go outside, there's not a lot of other work that the commission has the bandwidth for and.

D

You don't want to water down your ability to work on the things that are important.

D

To the commission so far, so I feel like that, if there's another role or another group, then.

D

That might be another way to go. I don't know that the commission has to be the one.

D

To tackle everything environmental, you know, they're, not they're, not a catch-all there. They.

D

Have a specific reference and we can look at the statute more closely, but that's my understanding.

D

Of it, I'd have to pull it out and look at it specifically, but it really focuses on conservation.

D

And from a conservation land standpoint, I I feel, like maybe a good starting point would be.

E

Having you know, someone who is particularly interested in several of these topics, seeing.

E

Who else wants to join a subcommittee, doing kind of a subcommittee meeting and coming from that.

E

Deciding or bringing it to the the larger meeting and deciding is this something.

E

That the conservation commission wants to get behind, or is this better suited for a different.

E

Like you said a different group, a different creation of a group.

E

You know because it is, there are a ton of different things. We could.

E

Be advocating on for sure, right, right and it can get overwhelming and and to.

A

Choose just thinking about it gets overwhelming, but you have to have the people that are like.

E

Ted really entrenched in these certain things to be the ones to uh educate everyone else and then.

E

Like decide what what we, what we can follow as a conservation commission, what we want to.

E

Follow and what should be dedicated to some other forum. I think yeah and I I think we.

D

Also might want to bring it back to where the city council wants. The conservation commission.

D

To go, you know, they're the governing body of the city, and how do they want to see this and.

D

They're not asking for that and that's another role that we have to think about is: how do we fit.

D

Their their needs right, but yeah, I don't, but that also can change depending on who's on the city.

A

Council too, so it it seems like that's something that maybe needs to be set in stone. A little more.

A

Or something, instead of just like what the yeah, what the current uh vibe is from them.

A

Versus you know, I just think like way, more in-depth conversations on particular topics.

E

Are needed, but I don't think it can happen on wednesday nights like. I feel like that.

E

Should be a subcommittee that then like really hashes everything out and brings you know a a.

E

Bullet point condensed: you know action plan to here during the other business.

E

And then we go from there. I guess and that's been all like long talking about it yeah. You know.

C

Really get it summarized down, so we have a pretty good understanding. Oh right, can I interject two.

G

Yes, please, uh because two sam's point and sort of peter alluded to as well. um I think part of that.

G

Discussion, maybe research would be finding out what other groups are already addressing some.

G

Of these issues I mean, I know in portsmouth alone, there's the blue ribbon sustainability committee.

G

There is also a citizens, organized group called portsmouth climate solutions. There's.

G

Another group of citizens who's talking about starting another organized citizens, group.

G

And then, at the state level, there's the new hampshire network, which has all kinds.

G

Of subgroups that deal with different things, you know sort of on a state level, but they.

G

Also have town representatives so there's a plastics group, and so it might be worthwhile.

G

Trying to get a better handle on what some of the other resources and people working on these.

G

Issues might be because it might be more effective for a member to join one of them.

G

And then bring the information back to the conservation commission versus us trying to.

G

Just reinvent the wheel for something: that's already, you know pretty active elsewhere,.

E

I agree jess. Thank you. Good yeah, good points, yeah, that's great! Thank you. Hi bob.

B

Thank you for coming.

B

We were just discussing uh things outside the conservation commission's purview. At this point.

B

How far we can go, I can follow up with him on the.

D

Rules and procedures, so yeah there's nothing else. I think we're good. I don't know yeah.

J

I don't think so. I don't know unless barbara, I guess I'll leave it to barbara decide. I'm not.

D

I'll make a motion to adjourn one. Second, I have a couple. One thing is um badges in case we have.

A

To do site visits? Yes, they have ideas, yeah, we're good bob I'll follow up with you. There was only.

D

One thing that that um or maybe a couple but I can tell you maybe two yeah- go ahead: um we're supposed.

A

To have the id badges so if we're walking onto it yeah, um if you can get, I can take a picture of you.

D

And we can give it to do you have to? Yes, if you want a badge, you have to have your photo on. Okay,.

D

um But if you don't want a badge, you don't have. No, that's! Okay! It is helpful to have a badge if.

D

You're going to someone's yeah property if they're wondering what you're doing looking.

A

In the backyard, I wouldn't go trespassing on people's property without asking permission.

D

You know, and your badge doesn't give you authority to go, walk in someone's yard, but it certainly.

D

At least gives you identification so that they know you're on the conservation commission.

D

And you're there to look at because they have a wetland application whatever, but.

D

Yeah, so if I'm there to see it do a sight thing, should I knock on the door if there's a shirt like.

D

There's a dwarf yeah! That's the only way you really should walk around their properties. If.

D

They'll get permission you can look at their property but yeah, it's actually by state law.

C

Conservation commissions aren't allowed to go on people's properties without permission.

A

To know yeah, I went to my first site visit. I think you know you can you know, I think you can.

D

Drive up their driveway if you're doing that to walk to their front door to get permission.

D

And you can see things from there that might be not well. I don't think anybody was on bell.

A

Island when I went there at the time- oh yeah, they probably know you- were there, though yeah.

A

And they got lights ever the lights are on all the time.

A

But that wasn't one one more question I had is: can I can we is this? Should I, during the meeting.

B

The only thing I was going to say is about that planning board meeting, but that doesn't.

B

Have to be on the bench it's up to you guys. I just want to you someone having a motion.

D

To adjourn, I just want to end the video for you for ready. Okay, I didn't know if she was serious.

G

I'm going to end the meeting, see you jess. Oh you good.

B