City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Conservation Commission, 12 Oct 2022

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From YouTube: 10.12.2022 Conservation Commission

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10.12.2022 Conservation Commission

A

I want to welcome everybody to the regular conservation commission meeting october 12 2022.

B

Portsmouth and the first item on the agenda is to see if anybody will make a motion to.

B

Move an agenda item, I think under other business number one update conservation lands to number.

B

Five, so ellison. um Yes, I make a motion that we remove the update on conservation lands.

C

To the very end of our business seconded all seven okay, thank you abby and then roll call vote.

B

um Samantha, yes, ted! Yes, um lynn, yes, abby here, allison, yes and jeff,.

B

Yes and the chair votes, yes, okay, um next order of business is uh first, I want to.

B

Make a public apology that we were looking for two council: uh two commission members.

B

At our last meeting that had both indicated, they would not be here so um sorry dad on that one.

B

um So I understand it is everybody had let us know ahead of time, but we had a little mix up.

B

Next item is the approval of the minutes for september 14 2022. anybody. I have a couple of corrections.

C

um One is on the page two first line, mrs tanner asked if any trees were being cut down, not own.

C

C

In under other business, on the same page, um the end of the first paragraph.

C

Associated with sustained land care, it should be sustainable land care.

B

Okay and then um at the at the bottom of the second paragraph um on that same page,.

C

Appropriately incorporated into recommendations, so it should be incorporated instead of incorporated.

B

Any other changes change it. No anybody want a second.

B

A second second thanks, samantha and any other discussion and we're going to go to roll call.

B

Vote again, all those in favor samantha, yes, lynn, yes, okay, I'm outstanding, I wouldn't know I'm.

B

Abstaining allison, yes, samantha! Yes again, I mean yes, yes, the chair votes. Yes, thank you. Next item.

B

On the agenda is the work session for 67 ridges court. Somebody want anybody here to speak to that.

D

Thank you, madam chair members of the commission, john chang, from abet engineering representing.

D

The foy's, so the foy's uh are looking to add a garage to their existing home at 67 ridges court.

D

And um hopefully there'll be some plans going up, but you do have plans that we submitted for.

D

The application today, the first plan is an existing conditions survey. The site is the.

D

Last house on the left, as you come down, regis court, there is another lot before the end of.

D

The street, but that lot is primarily um contains just a docking structure and no other structures.

D

The house has a currently has a two driveways, and the second driveway is on the subtly side, a.

D

Large paved driveway that is next to the existing structure, and that is the area that the this area.

D

Here is the area. The applicants would like to put a structure, a garage structure in that space, where.

D

There currently is pavement, so the next plan is um titled variance plan. That plan is a plan that will.

D

Require a variance from the board of adjustment, the next plan in the set, which I I don't need.

D

You to look at, but is there for your reference, was an earlier version of the edition, so initially the.

D

Foy's would would have liked to extend that structure one more bay, but there was significant.

D

Resistance from the neighborhood and primarily it revolved around views, so the zoning board of.

D

Adjustment chose not to approve that the foy's rethought the project and they're coming back.

D

With this proposal for a more modest addition, the plan shows that there's going to be a reduction.

D

In impervious surface, so this these areas here are all paved areas that will be removed. The.

D

Foy's, since the submission of this plan, when we do come back, they are asking us to add a.

D

Another parking spot on the south side here and what we would do with that spot is. It would be.

D

A porous material and that would actually serve to help the runoff from the driveway.

D

That is in front of the two, the two garage bays that are proposed with this addition.

D

The property or the addition lines up with the existing house is pulled as.

D

Far forward as practical so to be as far away from the little harbor resource as we could and.

D

That requires relief from the front yard setback. So there's a setback shown here. 19 feet is the.

D

Front setback when you account for existing homes along the street- and this is, I believe, 13 and a.

D

Half so there's a slight variance, that's required from this from the zoning board to place the.

D

Structure in that location, as far as runoff goes right now, of course, the people who park in that.

D

Paved parking area, the runoff just goes off and down into both the planting area. Here.

D

As there are two planting areas, there's a planting area immediately adjacent to the pavement and a.

D

Slow retaining wall and then at an elevation which is lower, there's a second planting area.

D

And then most of the water doesn't really go into that. It comes off uh from about halfway to the.

D

Structure, the property, the runoff does go there, but most of the runoff in the front comes down and.

D

Goes between this small landscape area here and the lower wall and runs down out into this.

D

Grassed area, so what we were thinking of doing is potentially in inserting some sort of a rain.

D

Garden there that would treat that runoff and as we look at it, we were um looking at.

D

Putting the rain garden down here and the more that we think about it, the more we might look.

D

At potentially taking the rain garden, putting it at the elevation of this second landscaped area.

D

uh And then either moving that wall to provide a hard edge, less disturbance or putting in a berm.

D

Which would require the sloping and more buffer impact, so we'd be looking for your.

D

Feedback on those on that part of the project we wanted to come to a work session because.

D

The development of fully engineered plans was awaiting uh the results of the board of adjustment.

D

Meeting, in other words, the applicant rightfully so did not want to have us, spend all the money to.

D

Do the final plans until they knew whether or not the board of adjustment would approve the.

D

Setback. Variants and um the first application to the board of adjustment for the three bay garage.

D

There was a lot of discussion both brought up by the butters and by the zoning board regarding.

D

The fact that this is in the buffer- and um you folks really are the the board that looks at.

D

Buffer impacts and talks about whether they are appropriate or not. The zoning board's task was to.

D

Talk about the front setback, so if it's possible to have some discussion today, we would like to.

D

Inform the zoning board that we came here and we talked about this project and we've we got some.

D

Feedback, so um we would hope that you would give us some feedback that we could um bring to the.

D

Board's attention, so, in essence, the project is the replacement of a surface, that's being parked on.

D

Runoff untreated, with structured interior parking where the drips from the cars will not be subject.

D

To washing into the buffer area and an overall reduction in impervious surface on the property.

D

We would also expect that, since the property has a lawn to the edge of this revetment,.

D

That we would come back and we would be proposing a 10-foot planted buffer area.

D

uh Down at that end of the lawn area and that's an existing situation, but I think.

D

We can do some buffer enhancements with a planted strip, so um I guess, if there's any.

D

Questions we'll be glad to answer them and we're looking for some feedback from the commission.

C

um I'm I'm trying to understand how you're going to put a rain garden in that bottom tier. I'm.

C

I want to understand what the.

C

So I understand that you will have the drainage sort of be below that wall, but I'm just concerned.

C

About um you know if there should be a heavy rain incident, the pressure would be like there there's.

E

Are you because there's a there's, a garage bay on the far left of the house as you're looking at.

E

It from the street- and you guys want to put in a new one, but the drawings indicate just one bay. So.

E

You're talking about just adding one bay correct, um it looks like a people door from.

E

The drawing it looks like a people door and a garage door that would, in the new construction.

F

All right this one here, john yeah, that shows that's what you're talking about. Yes,.

E

um Are you talking about just having one more one new bay? Yes, yes with all those yep, three bays and.

E

Two bays or whatever I didn't. I just want to make sure they were lining up: okay, yeah, so the the.

D

Door to the left of that uh bay, it's like a people door or something it's not even a people door. It's.

D

A pass-through because what happens is oh, got it yeah. So what you have is the situation where this.

D

uh Existing basement is at an elevation that would not allow you to continue it because you'd.

D

Be below the street and all the water would just run into the garage. So that's like an air brake.

D

So that we can have a higher grade to the to the garage bay and a step down, um so that's gonna, be.

D

Passed through to the back yeah, I'm sorry if I glitched no, no! That was a good question. I I.

B

Yeah allison, so I went out there and looked at the property yesterday and it seems like it's a.

C

Very small piece of property to be having all this addition on it, and I would like to understand so.

C

There's going to have to be some excavation to the road in order to be able to put this.

C

Garage edition on so the garage floor will be sort of at the grade of where the pavement is.

D

So they'll have to dig a four foot frost wall, but it's not a full basement. Okay, yeah. Thank you.

A

E

uh Just um what is the square footage of the existing house and what is it with the.

E

Addition do you have that I couldn't find it anywhere, but yeah. It should be on that.

D

C2 variants plan uh before and after um is it on a drawing or is it well? Maybe it's.

D

It should be, it should be in a previous surface kelp uh by the on the.

D

Variance plants c2 yeah at the top left, so it's going from 1591 to 2109 1591 to 21.09, okay,.

D

The uh structure coverage max is 20 percent, so that would be 3200.

C

Just I just wanted to make sure that you, you saw the staff report and the recommendations.

D

Yeah we saw the staff report, so we can go through some of those recommendations. I mean we. We.

D

Definitely don't have a full y designed plan, but I believe we have uh shown all the jurisdictional.

D

Wetlands and buffers we would definitely have a full plan set. That would talk about the.

D

um Erosion control and limits and square footages of impacts. Add the landscape buffer plan.

D

Provide some more information on the wetland buffer. There are no invasive species on the site.

D

That we're aware of other than maybe some things that were planted, like the burning bush and the.

D

Maple trees, but right yeah, um uh so we would be looking to add the 10-foot buffer strip as far as.

D

Wetland boundary markers, um I'm not sure, where you're going with those, but I guess we would.

D

Probably not ask that the residents be uh have to endure having a stick in their yard and in.

D

Their view that says wetland and has that changed from buffer peter in the ordinance the ordinance.

F

Calls for it to be put on the plan to show a good location for just highlighting where the wetland.

F

Boundary is so maybe there's a tree or two like at the at the title buffer zone or right at the.

F

Edge of the wetland- I don't know where the best location is, but it it does call for it, and our.

F

Zoning ordinance we're just trying to get people to start doing that we're going to come up with.

F

A more standardized marker, but yeah you could, if you can put it in a unobtrusive area, so it doesn't.

F

Bother them, but it you know, tries to highlight to people that this is a wetland resource area.

F

um That's what we're shooting for so it doesn't have to be every five feet or something like.

A

That but maybe a couple spots where there's a tree or you could put a post in or something.

F

Like that, that would be out of the way, but but people that are you know going down there would.

F

See that that's the edge of wetland- maybe it's better closer to the street, where you.

F

Might get people seeing it from that direction or the other street behind their frontal court.

D

um And it says that the wetland boundary is that or is it uh the ordinance just asked for it to.

F

Be shown on the plan to distinguish where the wetland boundary or wetland buffer is really.

D

Kind of we kept it open because every project's a little different yeah right. Sometimes you want to.

D

Mark the buffer in sometimes like in this case the buffer, is up here, so the placard would say.

F

Something like sensitive wetland area or something we can show you what we've got we'll have some so.

D

Possibly at this corner of the property is a good place, and that actually is an area.

D

Where the public comes down here to get to the shore, and then maybe a second one over here at.

D

That boundary or if the one there on the east side, would probably make the most sense and be the most.

D

uh Useful because it would the public comes down there. Yep yep.

D

The digital wetland delineation file- you know it's on your agenda, so I don't know.

F

If yeah we're going to talk about it later, but um we were thinking by that that we would.

F

Want we'd want to start asking applicants that have a digital file of their wetland.

F

To provide it, so we can add it to our js and just improve the accuracy of our gis.

F

um We're going to talk with the commission about it later and.

F

And see where they want to go with it, but it's something that we came up with that.

F

You know we're we're trying to improve the resolution of our wetland boundaries city-wide, so.

F

That would help our our city-wide layer, yeah understand and if that uh steve riker's here, you.

D

Might want to talk and ask a few questions about that proposal if you're so inclined to take that.

D

Out of order, that would be very helpful for him after his next presentation, and we don't expect.

D

Any groundwater impacts because the uh garages at the grade, so it's not going to be interrupting any.

D

Groundwater, like with a basement or anything, and we could put a note on the plan about the.

D

Storage of the docking structure, I think that's what that last comment is about that the and.

D

I believe that's part of the state rules yeah, that you can't store your floats in the buffer.

F

Yep and I think there's the one that he mentions right under the recommendation before that about.

B

Just enhancements consisting with living shoreline, I don't know if you want to speak to that. Just.

D

Well, I guess uh the buffer plantings at the top of the revetment would be our living shoreline.

D

I don't know what else you would do in this case. We're not disturbing that shoreline at all.

F

Yeah, we just want to point it out because it's in the ordinance you're not working in that area but.

F

um To the extent you can enhance it, you know it's a tricky, it's a tricky spot. You don't want to go.

F

Mess around mess around too much and disturb it. So I know that's a factor too right. It's something to.

F

Speak to for you guys just to raise, you know that's in our ordinance and whenever there's.

F

Work within a title buffer zone that gets you know, brought up for us yep. I understand.

B

um I have a question regarding what you mentioned about uh having the new the new parking spot, be.

B

Pervious porous yeah porous yep, so it doesn't show on the plan um because uh it was brought up after.

D

We filed but- um and I think that speaks to the way I thought it was two and it's only one so.

D

They need another parking spot, so what we would propose is to put in a porous parking spot here.

D

And since that is downslope of the driveway, anything that runs off the driveway would also.

D

Go over that porous section and tend to infiltrate in uh before it even ran down to the rain garden.

B

Poorest parking area as treatment for a non-porous parking area can cause some.

B

Complications with the runoff coming off of that area, being whatever it is sand you know, leaves.

B

And everything and then having to maintain the poorest parking area like a storm water treatment.

B

um Area so um I don't know if that really is your best way to go necessarily.

D

Okay might be better to just do that all yeah, regular pavement or all parts all porous.

D

I'm not sure you changed the dynamic of the.

D

Amount of stuff that, but I understand what you're saying yeah, no just questioning it, yep.

G

Talk about with the project is that do we have a discussion part of this still work.

G

Work session: okay, I'll wait for discussion: we don't do emotions so okay, well, okay,.

G

um Less other questions I think for me, I would just really need to see a really robust planting.

G

Plan like you're suggesting doing for the 10 feet of um buffer planting more would be great, taking.

G

Away as much lawn as possible, but also with the remaining lawn having it in a maintenance plan,.

G

uh You know not using chemicals on the lawn that sort of thing using the nofa standards, which ted.

G

Will bring up so have again there already, I mean ted, won't, have to say anything about it um for.

G

Sure yeah, it's part of the standard sheet now for these yeah yeah and the mentioning of the nhdes.

D

Standards on soil enhancements or fertilizer work for that, yes, absolutely yeah yeah. I think.

G

Those would be the biggest things for me. I appreciate that you're.

G

um You know, I don't love that this edition is going in further into.

G

The buffer, but because it's going on I've already paved area. I can see that you know.

G

It might be all right, but I think just having those all that planting taking.

G

Care of the remainder of the property as best as possible for the least amount of impact, a.

G

Little harbor would be great to see on the plans and in any other, supporting documents.

E

Of plantings, 10 feet 10 feet in and considering their you know, the whole yard is in the buffer.

E

Zone basically seems like 10 feet. I'd support. That is not enough yeah. I agree.

E

And also the nofa, I assume also includes herbicides in the um I was pretty sure.

E

Because it didn't get mentioned by you just so, because that lawn that I looked at, I mean that.

E

Looks like that lawn has probably had some herbicides uh hit with it too. So um anyway,.

B

We have um we're supposed to do a site visit for this right. We we're we're trying to get.

F

One scheduled at the last minute, but we have time because it's it's not a.

F

You know it's got an application to come, so we're hoping to do it. The week before.

F

um If you guys are open for that the week before the next conservation meeting yeah, I mean.

D

Unfortunately, it didn't work out for us. I don't know if you did some other sidewalks last week.

D

um No, no obviously we'd have to submit this before the sitewalk. So right.

D

um But we can make minor adjustments as we go for a planning board uh approval, maybe later.

D

uh That same month, if that works, maybe that doesn't work. You know it probably has to go.

D

Another month before planning board, so yeah we'll we're up for we're welcoming a sidewalk.

D

The week before your next meeting and we'll submit the full set of plans.

D

Yeah, the variance meeting is on the 27th. I think there uh it's it's before the deadline.

D

For your next meeting, so we'll you'll have submitted well, the variance is granted to.

D

Allow the front setback relief, then we'll be filing for next month's. For your meeting.

F

We'll shoot for that that wednesday, before the next meeting, hopefully that you know just to give you a heads up now, but we'll get it we'll get it out.

F

Early, if you decide not to go, we can postpone it. Yep and you're gonna do 10 uh four uh 3 30.

F

You're trying to make it a regular time a week before the meeting yep, that's a good idea. Sure.

D

Yep and if you do put in a rain garden or some other bmp um just to say that it.

B

Would be good to have a plan or management maintenance plan in there yeah absolutely.

B

Any other comments, or if we are doing a sidewalk, it is helpful to stake out anything.

G

um You know where the addition will be, but also the buffers online, and you know where.

G

The rain garden is going to go and how far you want, the buffer plantings just.

G

It's really helpful visually to see it on the ground. Okay, thanks, yep! Okay! Does it look like.

B

Anybody else has any questions or comments. Thank you. Okay, thank you for your feedback.

B

Okay, next item on the agenda is the state wetland bureau, application, old business.

B

For 41, picturing of and.

B

Sorry, we couldn't hear you last month all good, no worries.

A

Okay, thank you. Let me just navigate here to my plan, taking notes for john, there.

H

So this is a ds wetland application for.

H

The expansion of an existing commercial docking structure located at 41 pickering ave.

H

In portsmouth here the property owner is esther's, marina, llc.

H

The plan set, which will be up in a minutes, uh consists of an existing conditions plan that.

H

Shows the the existing docking structure, that is there now the property owner at.

H

This time runs slip space to boat owners. She also rents uh dinghy space to boat owners who.

H

um Use the the current structure to get in a dinghy and then roll out to their moorings.

H

That are located out in the river out beyond the uh the structure that you see there on the plan.

H

The property owner also operates and runs a kayak rental business. um So the purpose of this.

H

Expansion is to provide her business with that space to continue to run her kayak business. If.

H

You've walked by this site or been on this site if you've rented kayaks there or if you look at the.

H

Photos I submitted with the application there's a storage of about 125 kayaks on site as well.

H

As some paddle boards, so there's a lot of kayak and storage racks that are on the site, she has a.

H

Pretty healthy business healthy enough to to dive into this expansion, um the expansion consists of.

H

Proposing another gangway: that's off the existing fixed, pier! That's there now.

H

A 3x40 gangway that would lead to a 10 by 70 float. You can see from this plan that.

H

Mean high mean low water runs through the the western portion of the proposed float.

H

And the negative one foot contour runs through about the center of the float.

H

This would provide them with some title access. It would sit on the mud at low tide.

H

It's not a very long structure by any means, it's enough to provide her with the space that.

H

She needs for her customers to be able to get a kayak onto that float and also get in it. um I.

H

Have never personally gotten in a kayak trying to step into it from being on a float, but from what.

H

I understand that can be a little bit tricky and try to not end up wet so uh space. For you know.

H

A group of five to ten people who want to paddle together can all get their kayaks on this dock.

H

And and be able to launch safely, um there are two existing uh wood piles there. Now we would utilize.

H

Those two existing wood piles to secure the float location, they're shown on the plan as well.

H

Sheet b1 is basically our standard detail sheet, which shows the dock.

H

The existing dock, as well as the proposed dock expansion in plan view, as well as in profile view.

H

Profile is that I mean low water datum, which means that mean low water is elevation, zero.

H

We have mean low water, mean high water, highest observable tideline.

H

As well as the projected sea level rise in the year, 2100 depicted on the plan.

H

The application package itself to des has a lot of maps and.

H

As a coastal vulnerability assessment, a coastal functional assessments included in that as well.

H

As the photographs that I I mentioned earlier des will be looking for comment from this.

H

Commission in regards to this application, so that's why I'm here today to present answer.

H

Any questions take any comments, but in the end they would like a a written letter with some.

H

Comments in regards to the application- I did submit it quite some time ago.

H

End of july, so we're coming up on some deadlines to uh to have things.

H

Hopefully approved, but that's that's where we're at so I'll. Take any questions you have.

H

I'm sure there's something I I left out. Thank you very much questions.

B

New questions, no, yes just just to confirm so this the new float would be used just for launching.

I

Kayaks, it's not going to be used to store boats at all correct, yep yeah. She already does that.

H

On the other structure, um I did want to add, and I do talk about it in the application. There's no.

H

Technically, it's sort of it partially meets a definition of a marina.

H

Under the des rules, um but it does not have underground fuel storage, there's no fueling.

H

There, like a marina that you would think of, like you know, wentworth by the sea, marina type of thing.

H

um It's there's: no, she doesn't pull boats and work on them there. She doesn't provide any of.

H

Those services nor proposing any of those services, so it's more recreational based.

B

um I have a question about so just a little bit about an alternative, so if.

B

You could speak to it a little bit why you can't do it on the existing.

B

That you can float yeah, that's a fair question and we we did sort of go over. That.

H

um When you have several boats already attached to the existing structure, putting a finger float.

H

On that trying to have people with kayaks get down that way and then get out on a finger float past.

H

People who were working on their boats doing other things on their boats, it's more of a space issue.

H

And she would like to separate that space so that people could bring their kayak down this.

H

Gang way and be able to, like, I said, safely, get in it's um the slip spaces along what.

H

She has now are, are occupied, she either rents them and they have boats on them.

H

Most of the time so right now what she does is she kind of juggles? Can you walk down and walk.

H

30 feet where that boat is not there right now, because it's out to sea and can you launch there.

H

So this provides her with that space. That's kind of guaranteed on a daily basis.

C

It is only going to be for launching kayaks, it's not going to be it's for a type of business, yep.

B

And I'll ask the question the third time too, because I just want to like it's not going.

B

To be used for putting anything on there as in seats or or anything like that, they're not gonna.

H

I mean per the rules. It can't be right yep, so as long as they, they understand that yes, yep.

H

And it is, it will be a seasonal structure, so it'll be removed during the non-kayak season.

G

Twice the the width of the the current uh structure, which is very wide and I'm I'm.

G

Curious, if there is that I mean, does it need to be quite that wide? It was.

H

10 feet wide: okay and I'm gonna, guess that the existing float is probably six feet wide.

H

um I'm looking at a small plan too, but I know that the fixed pier portion is six.

H

Feet wide and it does look like the float matches that width uh the 10 feet wide. So.

H

Getting into floats and float stability, you need some width to have the stability when they get.

H

Too narrow, um even though you don't have and they're not long enough yep. So when you have a.

H

A float that's not wide, but also not very long. Then you, you encounter a stability issue.

G

Even though you seem to have quite a bit of pilings supporting it cut one in each corner,.

G

It looks like correct still, okay, so the pile is just locate it and keep in place right. Yep.

H

Questions fair question: yes, we've we went over, you know, should we be eight feet wide? Should we be ten.

H

Feet wide: um no, I get, I understand for kayaks, and uh probably a lot of them are tourists so not like.

G

The most agile, my first time in a kayak I'm going to try to do this.

G

Yeah I've I mean I've, I've taken a kayak off of the traditional one that they got there and.

G

I mean it was fine, but I've also done it before so sure. I I understand yeah.

B

No, no other questions or comments. Anybody want to make a motion.

I

Ask one other question: yes: does: does this change the way they use the shoreline like.

I

Is there any launching from the shore currently of kayaks um they could but their title access.

H

There's not a lot of water there. You know we try to give them something that would.

H

Get them beyond that mean low watermark, so that at least there would be you know, a foot.

H

Of water for a majority of the tide for them, so uh the other issue is there is a um or you can.

H

See, there's a stone or vetment around most of the property. The northern portion of the.

H

Property is like there's: an old boat launched there yeah, it's not concrete. It's scrabble.

H

um So there is the opportunity to launch in that direction too, but you can see the mean.

H

Low water lines quite a ways out from that, so certainly there are would be days and at high.

H

Tide, you could launch for sure for sure yep yeah the mean the mean high. You can see the mean high.

H

Water lines halfway up the slope, it's hard to see right, maybe I can point it out, but yeah.

A

ah There we go so so this is mean high water. Here.

H

And then this other line that you see out here further is the mean low.

I

Mm-Hmm right, okay, I take it back. Okay, you take it back, okay! Yes, I make a motion that we.

C

Recommend approval of the state women's bureau application for 41 pickering avenue. Thank you.

B

It's okay, no discussion, we'll do a vote; roll call! um Lynn! Yes, yes, allison! Yes, samantha! Yes, jess.

A

And the chair votes. Yes, thank you. Thank you. um I don't know. We have another item on the agenda.

B

That we might want to move yeah. That's what I was thinking. Yeah I'd like to make a motion that we.

C

Move digital wetland, delineation requirements to the front of to the first item on other business.

B

Okay, thank you seconded second, thank you. um Jess we're gonna, do a vote.

A

Yes, sorry, I caught you off guard. Usually it's just last set ted. Yes, samantha, yes, allison! Yes,.

A

Abigail, yes, lynn! Yes, yes and share votes. Yes all right! So the next item on the agenda is the.

B

Other business, digital wetland, delineation requirements so I'll. I can start that.

F

Okay feel free to come up and jump in if you want, but um really between kate- and I you know.

F

We've been talking about trying to update our wetland maps, we have a grant in to to.

F

Get funding to do that city-wide, but this is really an effort to do it on a case-by-case.

F

Basis where they have a wetland scientists go out. Do the delineation, our city-wide wetland donation.

F

Is not a delineation, it's a city-wide map, so it's not as accurate as what they're providing.

F

Our um thought was right: now we don't have it in the ordinance to require that. So we we could ask.

F

Applicants as they come in, if they have it, you know not. Everybody has to do what delineation.

F

With a wetland scientist, because we let some people use it- the city web map, when it's really.

F

Obvious they're in the buffer and saves them the expense, and then some people might get a wetland.

F

Scientist but not have their plan digitized or able to be brought in so we're not asking at.

F

This point for them to change what they've done, but to provide us what they've done if they're.

F

You know if they're willing, as a as a stipulation to the to the application, so we thought we could.

F

Start with that and then see how it goes and then see how we want to update the ordinance in terms.

F

Of requirements, whether it means requiring everybody get a delineation in the future.

F

Or whether it means just people that we might want to be more clear in the ordinance about who.

F

Should do a delineation, it's kind of hard to draw that line, but it might be worth doing and then.

F

um Where they do do a delineation and they have a survey that they can provide us, then we'd require.

F

They provide it, so this is the first step in that process, um but we thought it's only going to give.

F

Us better information on our wetland, delineation and they'll go right into our gis, so we'll have.

F

Access to it right when they apply, and we can use that information to better it review projects. You.

J

Why are the building plans be digitized and provided to us in a digitized format.

J

I think the only requirement is on a sub, a site, review and subdivision. They have.

F

To provide a plan set in a digital format and as built in a digital format and a site.

F

Review application, and also, I don't even know if they require it on subdivision- I think they.

F

Might but certainly on site review, but on an individual building permit no sometimes.

F

There is a reason they kick in a requirement for an as built a digital as built if they.

F

Have to verify something or if there's some other requirement, they're trying to meet. But it's not a.

F

It's not a typical stipulation for building permits, so these will be able to go right into.

J

The gis system, so everything will be coded and all that kind of stuff well they'll, have to be.

F

Digit, you know their digitized will have to be brought in, so it'll be a little bit of a.

F

Manual process, but yeah we can do that part. Yeah cool, have them all supportive.

G

I'm assuming it probably costs more to get your surveyor to digitize, something if they don't need.

G

To digitize it would I mean, is there any incentive from us to get because they're just giving it out.

G

Of their own goodness of their heart really well, everybody now does the does their plans and yeah.

F

Not everybody, but most people do their plans in a digital format. So it's really just giving us a.

F

File, yeah is what we see it as, but um oh yeah there could be, but if we start requiring it.

C

Then I think that we could, you know again limit it. So if you've got a single homeowner, that's.

C

Looking to modify their residence, they can use the city's maps potentially. But if you're.

C

Looking at something commercial or some larger development yep, then that would have to be a.

C

Digitized file, I think that we could probably bracket it yep. I like that. Okay, there are a.

J

Number of jurisdictions- naturally, they just require everything to be a digital copy. Yeah.

F

Yeah I mean and building permits are digital. If that, maybe I didn't answer your question.

F

Correctly so there is it online, you have to do an online building permit digitally, but.

F

In terms of us uh as built or a site plan that shows a boundary of your property that isn't.

F

Necessarily equipment they can draw a sketch and then scan it and upload it. So it doesn't have.

F

To be a surveyed plan got it, but it does have to be digital. So I guess that's a distinction.

G

Yeah a scanned pdf is still digital. I guess a scam. Pdf is digital, but it's not sketch is.

G

Still digital but like not helpful for what we're trying to get at right right.

A

Any questions yes, steve yeah, um so I don't I mean we. We will end up having to vote on this right. No.

F

Not right now, this is just another business item to just talk about it. Right, you'll have to vote on.

F

It if you make a stipulation that they provide it, but we don't have anything today that okay.

B

Okay, um so you wanted to speak to it for.

H

Yeah, if I could just make a couple comments, I I saw it on the um the staff memo for the the.

H

Previous application, and then I saw it on your agenda, um I guess I was just curious as to how.

H

That information was going to be used once the city had it in their gis system, and I think you.

H

Kind of explained that a little bit peter, I guess my hesitation would be as if, let's.

H

For example, take this this project here has an hotl which is technically a wetland delineation.

H

um And let's say uh the property owner across the street came to.

H

See you about a future conditional use, permit application and they used.

H

Our information, I think that starts to wander into a little bit of a slippery slope. Well, it.

F

Would be only on their property right, you only provide that information to the property owner.

H

Correct, I guess what I'm saying is. Let's say uh I can't really read it because it's so small, but you.

H

Know, let's say this property owner wants to add a garage to their property and they come in and they.

H

Speak with you and you provide them with the gis data that technically is owned by esther's, marina.

H

Llc and technically tied to my stamp hmm yeah, you know I I do like the the discussion that you you.

H

Started with about requiring everybody to have a wetland scientist do a wetland delineation. I think.

H

That's really probably the way to go. Maybe too no, I don't want to work on all these projects. I'm.

H

Busy enough it's it's not a it's, not a work issue. um I just think it makes it cleaner, yeah, no easier.

F

My my concern was more about how that information is going to be used. um I do agree 100 that.

H

You know, there's a there's some some city wetland mapping now and in my experience.

H

It can be pretty inaccurate, yeah based upon looking at a map and then me going on site.

H

We're talking about yes, I've been on sites where it's could be 100 feet, which is the.

H

Width of the buffer, so um yeah we look at that with every application. So it's not like it goes.

F

Unnoticed but yep we're trying to improve that- and this was a step to you- know, use the the.

F

Surveyed information to bring right, so I guess I'll have to have that conversation with the.

F

Legal department and see what we can require and what the ordinance requirement would be.

F

And what effect it would be upon a you know, contractor who did the work going forward in.

F

The future, if we required that, does that remove their liability or right liability or you know.

F

That that kind of thing- but it is a good point, so it's yep, I'm just glad you said something.

H

Yeah it just sort of answered samantha's comments or questions about the the data. It's uh the plans.

H

Are on what's called state playing coordinates, so those coordinates get just that were sent right.

H

Over the gis, so it's yeah it's a super, accurate, clean way to do it so, but even that not everybody.

F

Puts it into a known, coordinate system right, they could just do an independent survey and have a.

F

Digital file, that's accurate to the centimeter, but it's not tied into anything, so that makes it.

F

Then we'd have to digitize it and bring it in ourselves. And yes and that's why I was asking.

H

How how the city would be using it would you I would assume that you're not going to be providing.

H

Those northern in these things to an applicant, so I think that it covers you if you handed them a.

H

Piece of paper showing that doesn't necessarily um allow them to put it on the ground or put it.

H

On a plan, they'd have to tie it to the boundaries somehow, so there's that I think you're safe there.

H

But I'm not an attorney, I wonder so if, if like you were mentioning like a another neighbor.

G

Needed a uh a digitized plan and sees that it's already on the city, gis website.

G

And the question is whether they can or cannot use it. Could it be? I mean maybe they have to go to the.

F

Right now they would so if we come here that did it and have to get permission whatever.

G

That arrangement looks like that. I mean that could work as well. I guess with some sort of you.

G

Know I would assume some sort of fee for you to re-look at it again and make sure it's still like.

G

Still accurate, yes yep, so that could be another. I don't know yeah. I think that.

F

Would get awfully complicated yeah? I try to track it right, yeah, I'm thinking if it if it.

F

If it comes in either voluntarily or by an ordinance requirement, it would then become.

F

Public public information because the city is showing it on their gis map, so it we can't.

F

Guarantee any you know, proprietary assurance they'll get benefit from it, um but it is. It is.

F

A question for legal, I think, is there a way to do that? Do we do that? Other things that work the.

F

Same way because our site review requires it, so we have property boundaries, they help to correct our.

F

They really help to correct our tax maps. You know because our tax maps aren't all surveyed.

F

But when a site review plan comes in and they've surveyed the property boundaries and they look at.

F

The one next door and it's like five feet off, then they figure out how to adjust it and move things.

F

Around it's always a constant improvement, but um yes, I had that conversation with john before the.

H

Meeting yeah to talk about this and he said well, I have to do that with my property boundaries right.

H

um On site plans, if there's a lot line adjustment that information's got to be.

H

Provided to the city and it's used to update your maps and I think everybody's fine with.

H

That I just think it's the next, possibly the next use of it yep, that's something that you.

F

Know whether, when the city takes ownership of it or you know, use of it, then does that free. The.

F

Right person who created the information from the reliability, but that's that's the legal question.

H

Perfect, that's all I had. I didn't want to muddy the waters.

B

Put on a rabbit hole and take up more time, but thank you appreciate it. Can I ask you a.

I

Question actually sure, just because it's like a super interesting process right, how things.

I

Get delineated? Is there any scenario where? Because I think what you're saying is that.

I

Like the site-specific delineation would then kind of replace the city's wetland planned and for that.

I

Particular geography is there any situation where, like the city plan, would be more accurate than.

I

What you do- and it just seems interesting right to kind of like stitched together like a very.

I

Patchy yeah super site specific in this month and this year and then the city plan and then here's.

I

Another pocket where it was done a different year, a different season, a different delineator.

I

There are certainly variations between delineator to delineator yeah. um I think that's why we have.

H

Wetland buffers right because there is some variation, should we all be within 10 feet. Yes,.

H

um Where, where delineation probably gets, the trickiest is on sites that have been.

H

Disturbed by man right right- and I think that probably the listings of the cities.

H

Properties fall into that category, so it can be, it can be quite difficult. I've I've.

H

Been on sites where there's four sets of wetland flags they're all different and.

H

You know there is that variation as well, um that you can see literally on the ground.

H

um I mean you could we could have a four hour workshop on this, but.

H

um I guess also, I I'm not quite sure where the city map how that was generated, I'm gonna guess.

H

Probably a combination of some nrcs soil survey combined with an aerial photo interpretation as.

H

Well, I I don't know how like that was aerial, photo interpretation field, yeah application so to the.

F

Extent that they could do it yeah, so nothing's going to be boots on the ground. In my opinion,.

H

um But with that said like it, you know there could be plenty of variation between.

H

Who's on site, and who does it and the reality is that the way we did ours is not according.

F

To the 87 corps of engineers manual and the way that a wetland donator is supposed.

F

To do it is using that manual, so that's by default is always going to be more accurate.

F

Technically, more accurate, there might be cases where either seasonally or erosion or something.

F

Came in to change things, so the timing might make ours more accurate, but it's not accurate.

F

Because of the process, it's just by chance, it might happen correct, yeah, yeah, and I think it's.

I

Super interesting too, in cases where it's like lawn but probably would be a wetland.

I

You know what I mean like all the time, exactly all the time yeah. That's that's. Probably the toughest.

H

Thing to do is, to um you know, look at a lawn area that is clearly as hydric soils personally.

H

Just just for context, I always look at it as if somebody were to stop maintaining the lawn.

H

Then we would certainly have the vegetation within a short period of time right, tells.

H

You you're standing in a wetland right, so look at something other than the plants yep all the time.

B

Yeah people cut it to hope that it won't stay a wetland there's that too yes, yeah. Most of.

H

Our golf courses are in the sea coaster, they're in the same boat. They maintain an area. That's.

H

Certainly contains hydrx oils, mm-hmm and there's a section in the manual that deals with that. That's.

H

A whole nother which really says throw out all the criteria and use your best professional judgment.

I

Great. Thank you. I'm also curious, if you're seeing any like changes, any sort of consistent right.

I

I mean you'd expect kind of that like wetland line to be changing right with sea level rise.

I

And with climate change um a little bit yeah sure a little bit on the seacoast, so hotl is.

H

A different animal in terms of of how it's identified in the field, um you know it's the.

H

Furthest land, where line of debris wash ashore by title action, presence of synthetic materials.

H

Within the soil profile, which is pretty obvious, when you dig a hole, it just smells like sulfur.

H

um uh The presence of vegetation that typically grows in areas that are inundated by salt, water.

H

So it's the combination of all those things. Again, it's not great. I wish the state would.

H

Just pick an elevation main picks an elevation and that's what they use, um because you can go.

H

On a site- and there may be a um you know- a rack line- a debris line, but you don't know when that.

H

Debris line was deposited, it could have been from a hurricane that was 800 miles offshore, so.

H

That's not always the most reliable indicator. I have seen some changes. I think the biggest.

H

Change that I see is, um is there there tends to be. uh I see more phragmites, particularly in rye.

H

And I phragmites doesn't like, and it's not very salt tolerance.

H

um And I see that proliferation of that that edge of phragmites around.

H

The salt marshes just seems like it's getting wider and wider and wider.

H

I know there's been some projects where they're trying to introduce more salt water into those areas which is going to gonna. Take out.

H

That phragmites, it's gonna in a natural in a natural way, sort of knock it down.

H

um But I have seen some changes in terms of fresh water. You don't see a lot um I mean I haven't seen.

H

A lot but there's areas that have been impounded beaver activity, things like that. Certainly.

H

um You can see in a short period of time. By short, I mean five years ten years. Unfortunately, I'm not.

H

On a lot of sites for that duration, but I do have some some monitoring responsibilities where I've.

H

Or been on a neighboring site and look over there and go oh yeah. Well that looks different.

A

So yes, yeah, no, it's dynamic! There's no question. Yep.

B

Thank you very much.

B

Okay, next item is the cip funds discussion the order right? That's right, yeah, that's right! Oh and.

B

um For that one, I just have the update from me on um the letter to the city councilors.

B

um Requesting, as was voted at the last meeting that we had in september to ask.

B

For the request for the five hundred thousand dollars for land acquisition item in the budget.

B

In the cip, so um that has been sent to the city council and the mayor and the.

B

um And I'll say manager, city manager, so I will speak to it at the planning board.

B

Meeting right, I don't know if you found out any more information on that uh no december and then.

F

um City council in december, I believe as well in december. Okay, that's when they vote, though.

B

Right right about to have a public hearing when they vote. Yes, but I'll get you the actual dates.

F

Of it too yeah I've actually got them here. It's actually november 17th 2022. It goes to.

J

The planning board for cip information meeting and I assume that they take testimony at that meeting.

F

I think they might, but they also that's not when they adopt they vote to send it to the.

F

Council or I think there might be two meetings, but that's what I gotta check is, which which is.

B

Anybody wants to know when it's happening, let me know, do you want to come over? I would I also.

C

Want to mention, though, that um november I'm going to be at a trial in minnesota,.

C

So I'm probably not going to be here for the december meeting awesome. Can you send an email.

F

It's the december 15th planning board meeting. I think you're right because.

J

Last year say something for that meeting. When I figured out it didn't it wasn't.

F

In there, so it's december 15th for the plenty board. What did it say about the.

F

Council public room: did you say that date, uh it's in february in february, oh okay,.

F

Located those dates but it'll be december 15th for the planning board and then we'll get you the.

F

Date for the cup and, if there's anything that you want me to add to when I presented in addition to.

B

What's on the letter, let me know I thought it was excellent, very well written. I guess, for your help.

B

Allison on doing that and your points and chair, I guess my question is: how do we arrive at 500 000.

J

A year ago, the conservation commission unanimously recommended a million dollars to be put in the cip.

J

Plan for every year, so how did we arrive at 500 000 this year? I thought it was 500 000. We said.

F

We started that's what I remembered. I started a million and went down to five. I could commission.

J

Pull it out, but I I've actually gone back and checking. It was a million dollars so anyway, yeah.

B

And I think there was pushback to get us down to the 500 000. I think so I don't remember. I remember.

F

It being starting in a million and going down to 500, but I have to go back and look at the minutes.

B

Yeah so yeah so, um and I think the approach is that you it's not just for this year. It's for.

F

Every year each year you build up a fund and then decide you know. Do you want to keep doing.

F

That, or do you have enough for projects and how many projects are coming in and.

F

um You know like it seems like it's good to keep it on the agenda to keep building the conservation.

F

Fund because you're not going to keep building it through development. At some point, that's.

F

Going to run up, I don't know I'm in use of what I don't think it's enough. um I wanted to bring.

C

Up, too, that the city of dover is looking at um if developers want to increase density on their.

C

Property that they pay for it and that that pro, that money goes into a conservation fund.

C

It's just another way we might be able to you talking about the wastewater plan. They have.

C

No, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about just the city of dover, saying that.

C

If they want to increase density on their properties, that they need to pay for it and.

C

um Right so, instead of according to supporting density, is actually good for the climate. In that.

C

You can protect the other areas, but you need to have the money to be able to protect those areas.

F

Yeah, so, instead of going for a variance they can, they can pay a certain amount to get to a.

F

Density level, so you know like they might say one signal payment, home per 7, 500 square feet.

F

And if they don't have enough square footage on their property, instead of going for a variance.

F

To put multiple prop, you know single-family homes or whatever on one property they can pay for that.

F

Density, basically, um which would be the same similar to going to get a variance for that.

F

Density but they'd be paying and that yeah that it could be a designated fund, so yeah.

F

We can look at that as part of a zoning. You know, review or well, and I think andrew was having in.

B

Similar to that, but without even the incentive part is the developers come in and they pay a.

B

Fund a fee for doing just development to the conservation fund, which other towns and cities.

B

Do too so you mean there's a development fee yeah. I don't know about that. I can check into that.

C

Well, we have the change of views, isn't that sort of a development fee? Yeah, certainly I mean that's.

F

A that's a they call it a current use penalty. So it's a penalty for taking something out of current.

F

Use at 10 of the value of the property and the state law says you can do that and you can put.

F

Up to 100 of that penalty into your conservation fund and some communities put it into the.

F

General fund, some communities put it all in the conservation fund like we do or some communities.

F

Do a split so some of it goes to the general fund. Some of it goes to their conservation.

I

And in portsmouth you said it all goes to conservation, yeah.

F

100 in portsmouth goes to goes into the conservation fund, yeah.

C

Yeah, there's not a lot of land left. Yes, that source is running out. Yeah.

B

Do you mind checking on that with the increased density part peter? What dover does yeah sure.

B

I can check on.

B

um And then the other part of this cip funds discussion, I think, um was that um in your packet.

B

You saw capital improvement plant program. I think it's resident suggestions forms that ted had done.

B

I think he asked to be to have that included in the past yeah. It actually kind of in that's one of.

J

The reasons why I pulled out the cip schedule and it it leads me to think that we should move on our.

J

Schedule next year, to have a broader conversation about things that we might want to recommend.

J

In a broad sense, so let me talk about some of these because I think there are things that I.

J

Would hope that this commission would think of supporting you know uh or, and certainly next.

J

Year maybe have a broader discussion about some of these issues, uh but as a couple.

J

One is including funding for a commercial grade, steamer like they use in europe,.

J

They've got these big youth steam machines, which kill all the weeds uh on these things and they.

J

Travel a pretty high rate of speed so like dover now has a steam machine. They built it themselves.

J

It's a big steamer uh and it goes on the back of the truck and they go around and they kill.

J

Weaves with it, so they don't have to use any type of pesticides to kill weeds sidewalks, yeah.

J

On the sidewalk, the edges of the roads, it was pretty innovative, but they made it themselves.

J

And it's not fast and efficient. There's these machines they're about 225 thousand dollars, but.

J

Less than the cost of a packer, for instance, that move at a pretty high rate of speed, so every brick.

J

Sidewalk everywhere market square, the benefit is it not only kills the weeds it sanitizes. All the.

J

Sidewalks and then they have attachments where you can use them in other places, and they have.

J

A year-round uses too, to loosen up uh you know, pipes and to loosen up uh caps on on streets.

J

Streets and things like that and take off graffiti on buildings, it's very efficient taking group.

J

Graffiti buildings so I'd like to, I think it will be a good thing. I've looked into it for years. I've.

J

Talked to peter rice about it, so yeah I'd love to have one, but we don't have the money. You know.

J

um So anyway, I would love to to see if people would be willing to support that.

J

Or the commission would be the other one that I have is uh a deep tine aerator, and I got this.

J

Completely from peter rice, we were going the same gym last year and is the same on wednesdays, and I.

J

Was saying there might be some potential grant funds out there for new equipment? I was hearing.

J

From stonyfield and asked them, is there something you guys really want and he said yeah he said we.

J

Want a deep tine aerator, what that is, none of the fields really here are variated annually. They're.

J

Not if you walk in any of the park, it's hot as a rock, you know this. They don't have the resources.

J

For a person to go around area individually, but they have these deep tine areas. It's like machine.

J

They're very efficient: they go through and twice a year. You could aerate all of your fields and parks.

J

So peter actually sent me a cost estimate that he had done by one of the city's uh arborist and.

J

Forty two thousand dollars, so that was a pretty sound number on it for a deep sign. Aerator.

J

The other one that I had was to transition 500 000 a year, the same. What we're talking.

J

About for purchasing land which isn't much to transition the city to all electric.

J

You know we're getting into the season we're going to hear the whining of you know, leaf blowers and.

J

Everything else, and then you have lawnmowers in the summertime and today it's very efficient and.

J

You can make the transition, it's not the high cost that it used to be and you've got different.

J

Types of charging stations and electric charging infrastructure- that's growing and I was looking.

J

At what some other communities do and they've been transitioning over from gas to electric.

J

And the last one I proposed almost is an alternative to our five hundred thousand dollars.

J

um There's a a very, very uh effective program in in massachusetts where you.

J

Can they can set aside you decide if you want to be a community preservation community or not.

J

And uh 189 communities out of 351 in massachusetts have signed up in the last six years alone.

J

Since they passed the legislation with the legislation, does it allows you to set aside.

J

Voters can vote to say: let's set aside one percent or two percent up to two percent a year uh and for.

J

A property acquisition that can be used not just for land conservation but can be used.

J

For recreation, recreation and also historic preservation, our historic preservation needs.

J

I I don't believe they're that right here, but certainly for recreational land. We don't have.

J

A pot to just buy stuff when it's out there, you know, and that's the community campus as an example.

J

We were stuck, we didn't have the will-withal to you know, purchase that we had. We were fortunate.

J

That federal funds were around, so it's a very it's modeled after that program I propose one percent.

J

Which is 1.3 million a year and people in mass look at it? Okay, I voted the one percent increase.

J

Once after that, it's already built into the base and my taxes aren't going up in the future years.

J

It's just that first year, so anyway, I think it's a pretty good model, and uh I I don't. I.

J

Don't think I don't think half a million dollars is much anyway. It's open for discussion. Thank you.

B

Any discussion I I only wanted to mention that I also had submitted a um a proposal regard.

C

Regarding tree planting and that the city be able to use its buying power to work with residents,.

C

That would like to have trees on there property or an additional tree that there be um one. And I.

C

Think you may be right, peter that there there are a number of I mean, there's supposed to be a number.

C

Of trees that the city plants in the city each year, but um I'm talking about enabling residents.

C

You know, and if uh you know we have a city arborist, the arborist could work with the.

C

Homeowner on the types of trees that are available that do well in this area, if they're, unsure.

C

Just I think that to encourage homeowners to plant trees is a good thing and if we can help them in.

C

Some way by reducing their cost, um you know buy it at city cost and that would be advantageous.

J

I think it's a neat idea be that in it it's a growing movement now in the united states. That.

J

They're planting uh fruit trees, you know not not just ones with leaves on them. You.

J

Know which I think is kind of interesting and then anybody's can take them when they're right.

B

Yeah, I did see that it's great lots of good energy ideas and any other discussion.

B

Questions or anything and peter you had, um I think, gotten some more information on the follow-up.

B

For those ones that are submitted by residents, opportunities like the public input opportunities.

B

As follow-up oh uh yeah, the I mean, I think, typically they put those at the end of the cip and.

F

I don't know how much they focused on them this year. The council is making a more concerted effort.

F

To bring up the resident, cip requests and they'll have that on an upcoming agenda. I think if they're.

F

But they're gonna go through them. The council is going to go through look at.

F

Them more specifically than they have in the past, so yeah. Thank you for bringing that up.

B

Community for public input for to speak to it or just for them to bring it up.

F

Into the public forum, a little bit more, I think, is what the goal is that the council.

F

Talks about them, instead of just adding them to the back of the cip document.

A

Yeah, so if we want to kind of help this process of advocating for the.

I

Conservation fund: what's is it helpful to have more people come to these meetings.

F

They, don't you know if you can make it short and sweet. There's a lot of items in those and those.

F

Meetings go pretty long, but yeah. I think more people will come speak to an item. It.

F

Just gets more attention for sure. So, like the same time, the barber goes to have the planning.

F

Board one would be december 17th and the city council will be when they have their public.

F

Hearing which I'll have to get the date they always get when they schedule that, for the cip.

F

Book hearing, which is the final destination, but the planning board is when they.

F

Planning board sort of puts it all together the board that puts it all together and they send it.

F

Off to the city council on the 17th, they make that vote to recommend the cip to the council.

F

That's the date that they're shooting for that's on there, that's how they that's on the calendar.

I

So if we were to pick one meeting to go to which would it be.

F

uh You know the.

F

I don't know, I would say either one really have this similar, but the the plant, the city council, is.

F

Going to close out all the final ones, so it might get knocked off before it gets to the city council.

F

If it's something that I mean I mean at the city council, but usually not usually the planning board.

F

Recommendations go to the council and they approve them. I don't think, there's a usually a lot of.

F

Shooting so I would say, the planning bar is your first chance at it and then, if you, if you, if you.

F

Like how that goes, or it doesn't take too much of your time, if you go to the council also, you know.

E

Which planning planning might it be yeah november, 17th december no well november, 17th.

J

It says planning board cip public information meeting yeah. I don't know what that means. I.

F

Think that's just the presentation of all the items in the cip and then the december 17th.

F

Meeting is where they vote to send it to them december 15th right: okay, got it public input.

A

And then the council has a public hearing, so they'll take public input. There.

B

Okay, anything else on that. No, it's just you know it's the first well last year, I guess.

F

The first year that we've been engaged with the cip. So so it's all good information, but probably.

F

Good things coming from us yeah, especially from individuals and then support for the.

B

Individuals, if people want to do that, let them know anybody, because they do okay. Great. Thank you.

B

um So then, our next item would be standardizing site looks which I think is.

B

Yours, peter yeah. We basically talked about it um in the context of the sitewalk for.

F

For bridges court, basically, we want to try to make it a regular thing to have a sidewalk a.

F

Week before the meeting so that we just keep putting on the calendar, that's what people are.

F

Aware of it, it seems like a good time to do it, and then we don't have to do doodle polls and.

F

Remember to do that yeah, so we're shooting for the week before at 3, 30., so it'll be the wednesday, but.

F

The first wednesday of the month, I guess at 3 30, would be the goal and then there may or may not.

G

Be something to visit is that kind of how it's we're gonna. You know if the applicants can't do.

F

It we might have to pick move the date, but if you know at least we'll have a date that we can.

F

Shoot for every standing day every month try to make it a standing date. That's the goal. Yep.

I

And when we try to see like all of the projects that were on the agenda, that would be the goal.

F

Too, but yeah some of these are some of these get long, so we'll try to make them quick and tell the.

F

Applicant, we don't want a long presentation, but your weapon scientist or something we.

F

Just want to see the site quickly and know what we're going to be. You know it's really.

F

Nice to see a site in the field, and I think it always benefits the commission when that.

C

Seems so just trying to encourage that, and I think what sam suggested is also, you know.

A

Having everything about something out so that we can go there and know exactly where it is.

G

Instead of them, so they're not spending time looking at their map being like okay, I think.

G

It's right there right, it just takes time and if it was already staked out, then yeah.

G

As much as possible can be staked out yeah, I think it's efficient yeah.

B

Okay, all right so that one's that one right and then the next one is the digital wetland.

B

Delineation requirements is that you or no we already did that was with that was the.

C

First one: well, there was one thing, though: do you guys want us to decide on something.

B

That's what I was wondering: no, we put it in as a recommendation for a stipulation.

F

In the work session for when that comes in as a regular application.

B

Okay, I'm thinking I'm sorry, I'm thinking the boundary markers the boundary marker.

F

We haven't talked about yeah yeah, okay, so that would be k for you sure sorry,.

K

Of course, the back of the packet, but so I was talking page 126., sorry page 126. wow. Thank you.

K

Very much okay, you want to introduce yourself. Oh sorry, yes, kate, omay, associate environmental.

K

Planner um actually 23, but peter, and I were talking about 24. how there is a requirement.

K

In the very back of the environmental protection standards in the zoning ordinance for boundary,.

K

Markers and so we're going to try and start getting more applicants to really abide by.

K

That and have them on their plans, and it also requires them to install them during construction.

K

So I talked to kristen murphy who's, the exeter conservation, commission staff representative.

K

Because she and the extra conservation commission has been doing this and they a long long time ago,.

K

She doesn't even remember when they bought it bought a bulk amount of wetland battery marker.

K

Signs from a company in mass- and they have yet to run out of them, but basically they get them for.

K

A very low cost um and sell them for five dollars each to developers or applicants, and they require.

K

Them to put them every 50 feet along, I believe, the buffer line for exeter. I might be wrong about that.

K

But we are not quite thinking about distance yet like 50 feet or anything, but we think it.

K

Would really be really good idea to do at least a trial run and order? Maybe 100 of these signs.

K

They're relatively affordable and just have a stockpile of them pick a design that we like.

K

Stick with it and maybe sell them for the same amount, five dollars to applicants, maybe one or a.

K

Few, with every application, depending on the size of the buffalo boundary that they're looking at.

K

So we have these are examples from the massachusetts company there's two pages.

K

Of examples and there's an example from raleigh massachusetts, they order from there as well.

K

But I think we were talking peter and I about a portsmouth one. That is just very.

K

Simple says something like city of portsmouth, environmentally sensitive area or wetlands.

K

Sensitive areas, something like that with very basic logo, but then also the city manager, karen.

K

Also was thinking that a city seal might be nice to put on these, and these are. These are.

K

Pretty small, I think, they're they're about five to eight inches. You can get a small or a large one.

K

But they're pretty pretty small um and they just require two two screws and usually just put on a.

K

Post might be a wooden post, whatever we decide, but okay yep, what's the material? What are they made.

K

Out of these are, I believe, metal, but I think you might be able to request classic ones I'll have to.

K

Talk to the the company around no plastic, no yeah right. I agree. I agree. I was like that's a batter.

K

Yeah, but I think they're, just like simple tin, like the street, sign material or something sorry, the.

K

Street sign material yeah, exactly, I think, pretty pretty thin and but I mean exeter crystal murphy,.

K

Was saying they work great and they've been doing them for as long as she's been there. So.

K

I think they like it, and she also mentioned that they've been getting or while she's been there. She.

K

Also has received a lot of questions from just residents and town community members saying oh.

K

What does that mean like when they see a sign, so it's raising awareness at the same time, for.

K

The wetland areas and the sensitive areas around town so.

K

Just thought it would be a good thing we could start doing, or at least yeah since.

A

They always ask us what the sign needs to say, and things like that, so one that I like best.

C

Is it says, protected wetlands no disturbance, city of portsmouth in the middle conservation.

C

Commission, I think I think, that's a great thank you very straightforward. I think yeah, the simpler.

K

The better, maybe and no disturbance for sure no disturbance, yeah. I I think the instruction.

E

Is really imperative because people, if it's just a sensitive wetland area, what does that mean you.

E

Know you know so yeah they do not disturb you mean or no disturbance, instruction yeah yeah. I.

B

Think even no disturbance is better yeah, I was going to say, maybe do not disturb or whatever.

E

No disturbance, I mean you basic, I think it needs to have a command, but I like the graphics of the.

K

Yeah or we could do something similar to the middle one, the do not disturb or cut.

I

Disturbance- and it's telling you not to do it as opposed to the no disturbance.

E

um Is it's like it's almost like I'm telling you not to do it? It's like an area of no disturbance.

E

Or something it's like, oh well, I'm gonna go in and do you know whatever you know I.

C

Get more concerned about dumping, I don't know if people are going to think that I can dump.

C

Something there and I'm not disturbing it or something, but that's oh interesting, yeah.

C

Like people with their grass clippings pretty commonly found in the wetland area,.

B

Do not disturb dump or cut yeah.

G

So there's like a time you can say five foot list, yeah.

E

Because people don't seem to get the points sometimes so so we could do more of the middle.

K

One with do not disturb or cut on the bottom and then maybe the city seal thrown in there.

K

In the middle yeah we'll see if we can fit the city seal, I think that might be good yeah. Okay, do.

E

Not disturb in any way, don't even look at it the uh the way the ordinance is written. We ask people.

F

To show it on their plan, which they're not doing we're, trying to get them to start doing it more.

F

um Because every wetland is a little bit different in how it lays out, so it it's helpful if we can.

F

But maybe we'll have to start, you know telling them where they need to put them.

F

As part of the process make it as a stipulation show, locations.

F

I haven't done that before the terms of spacing and where they go and it I guess, I'm not really.

F

Clear on whether it would be a problem for them to nail these into a tree, or is that going to.

F

Damage the children yeah, it depends on what the nails are made out of the benefit. They can't be a.

F

Long-Term standpoint versus a wooden stake: that's going to fall over right. Is it going to damage a.

F

Tree and so right specify what type of nail they put in it and not to nail it all the way in either.

B

Yeah so that it's kind of dangling giving them this sign, we give them the yeah instructions.

E

And say you must use these nails do not substitute because somebody's gonna.

E

um Or, and would a screw be better than a nail? But um uh what about? um Because, when you're the open.

E

Space, um what about on a stone could somebody I thought of that one that was happening before.

E

But I thought I'll leave that comment alone for a while. Well, we did a plaque we've done, plaques on.

F

Stones and we did that for conservation land, the the sagamore headlands piece has a plaque. That's.

F

Attached to the stone, that's possible, I just don't know if a typical homeowner is going to have the.

F

Resources to do that or not the resources, but the know-how yeah. I don't even know how they did it.

F

I think it was pins they might have drilled in and then cemented. Somehow. The easiest thing is.

C

To stake in the ground but yeah yeah sorry, is this for the wetland or for the buffer.

G

Are we doing both there? It depends, I always get confused. Well, no, I think it it we've left it. It's.

G

Potentially ambiguous because every project's a little different- and you know they might be.

F

50 feet into the buffer, so if they put a sign on the buffer, it might be in their front yard.

F

In the front, protective wetlands kind of leaves it open, you know you're either at the buffer or.

F

The practical lens or you're in at the edge of the protective butlins, and it just highlights.

F

The point at which you cross into a natural area, I think a lot of times also it goes through right.

G

Through someone's lawn and no one's going to want to put that in their lawn. No- and I don't.

F

Think that's what yeah! So I mean that's that's what I think is negotiable. Yeah! Okay, because, like.

G

They can mow their lawn, that's technically cutting right, yeah right, so it should be at the.

F

Edge of the line yeah, they planted their whole new buffer yeah. So that's why it'd be nice for.

G

Them to show it on the plan and we can decide if that's adequate or not. Okay, exactly got it. Yeah.

A

So, are we good on that yeah? We good, let's show the graphics of the middle one, though.

K

Yeah my powerpoint skills aren't that great, but.

A

I think it's great all right. Thank you. So much again, thank you. Thank you. So our next item on.

B

The agenda is the update on the conservation lands non-public session. Does anybody want to.

B

Make emotions I'll make a motion that we go into non-public session seconded and oh gosh.

B

um Roll call on the vote- lynn, lynn, yes, obvious, allison; yes, samantha, yes, ted, yes, and yes,.

A

Yes, chair votes. I have a question. Can I still be a part of this or yes,.

F

I don't know: okay, we can call you on a cell phone. Oh okay, can we call you? I mean somebody can update.

A

Me later, if that's easier, it doesn't. I don't need to complicate things, but I think you can.

F

You're part of the commission, so you certainly could be um a cell phone. Okay, we'll call you.

B

Okay, next motion to I'll make a motion to.

C

um Close the minutes of the non-public session seal, the minutes.

B

The chill vote is um uh lynn. Yes, yes, yes, yes, allison. Yes, yes, sam ted, yes and jess.

B

You may have lost you. Yes, yes, okay, great fact, all right, so we're back so any other items on.

B

Other business yeah, I I do a few meetings ago. We were just going to have on on every meeting on the.

J

Agenda just a very quick update on our uh organic land management program and I just want to give.

J

You a real quick update and just get real quick feedback is that we had a meeting yesterday.

J

Diana papanoni, myself and jeremy from norfolk connecticut that oversees the accreditation.

J

Program, and as I mentioned it at one of the meetings that for the first time ever they're.

J

Going to hold a live accreditation program in new hampshire they've, never held one and they're going.

J

To hold it here in portsmouth, which is really cool and they're talking about sometime this winter.

J

February maybe march something like that, and uh you know we're talking about who we're going to.

J

Reach out to to get support things like that, but I just wanted to verify that you know one of the one.

J

One of the official sponsors of this is the conservation commission sponsoring this training.

J

Program in conjunction with dofa- and I think we're going to have like clf and others are.

J

Going to sponsor too, you know just plenty ahead. I haven't talked to anybody, the library or anything.

J

Yet if anybody has any ideas, it's a four day course it usually runs from nine to four and.

J

We expect 30 to 40 students, which would be a great turnout if we promoted enough. We want to.

J

Promote it with the manager, landscape association, we've there's been some discussions with them.

J

Everybody's pretty excited too ted. What's that who is it geared to toward? Oh, this is geared.

J

To landscaping, professionals that want to get accreditation. So if we're going to tell people.

J

You got to do it right and there's no one that they can hire to do it right. You know, so it's.

J

Like a chicken and egg thing right, so this is the chicken right and we're working to get the chicken.

J

Going so that we can- and they already have list of accredited people, there's quite a few in in.

J

New hampshire, you know, and in maine, but uh in a map, but there you know this is to get the whole.

J

So we'll be looking for, you know a place for four days. You know, I don't know where I was going to.

J

Talk to the library to start with, I don't know um space at creek farm. um Maybe you know I think yeah.

J

I did too, I do yeah in the another building there they do. Okay, it's the same size as the.

B

Library would be it's an urban forestry center. Well, it's nice every center discovery center.

G

Yeah yeah discovery center, yeah discovery center, yeah yeah, but couldn't you do it at the urban.

C

Forestry center, because, yes, there too you're right if I'm coming in here from out of town.

J

Right, do I want to go to the urban forestry center, or do I want to be in within walking distance.

J

Of downtown yeah, the downtown library would be great, but yeah you can get that space yeah. That.

A

Was pretty nice so you can go hiking, it's true. I know so. I'm not note that when we're going to.

B

Have a meeting on the 19th, I think tentatively, I don't know if, uh okay, I saw it in the notes.

G

Which right I have it for the 19th at 3 30, 3 30, which is the same day that.

B

We were going to go to the site visit. No, that was november, 2nd. Okay, I think.

G

Can you do the 19th okay uh for that meeting for our regular meeting for the.

K

You know, there's there's not much more to share than what we've talked about. You know. Well, there.

B

Was a website that she presented and then is alan still with us, is our it director still.

J

With us I saw the announcement. I have some new I.t person, yeah allison here. I also have some things.

G

um Ordinance ideas too: okay for that meeting, okay committee meeting: oh that's right! We can.

B

Talk a little bit about the brochure a little bit maybe, and that was uh what was the date on.

E

That october 19th at 3, 30. yo, okay, so coming up soon yeah like next week from today, and I.

E

Think there was was there a meeting at the end of september that I missed? If there was that.

E

No, no, okay, all right that makes me feel better. Okay, he's still in mind away zone.

E

All right, I was afraid of them,.

A

I'll come up with a draft agenda yeah. That would be great because you were not.

F

The last one yeah so we're gonna post it. Okay, probably the end of this week. Early next week.

F

Okay and find the space- okay, okay and any other other.

B

Anybody want to make a motion to adjourn I'll, make a motion.

C

That we adjourn- oh second and all those in favor.