City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Conservation Commission, 9 Nov 2022

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From YouTube: 11.9.2022 Conservation Commission

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11.9.2022 Conservation Commission

A

B

All right, hi, everyone uh welcome to the november 9th 2022 portsmouth conservation, commission.

B

Meeting um I will be acting as chair today, barbara mcmillan. Our normal chair is on zoom.

B

uh And she is the only member on zoom. Is that right? That's correct, okay, yep.

B

um So first on the agenda is the approval of minutes. Anybody have any changes to make on.

B

Those I have um in the um the so type sort of type of um in the first part where it.

C

Says also present under that heading and then down it where it's got the 614 in bracket time.

C

um The last sentence was a quorum was not met until some time came to the meeting, and so I think.

C

It should be one someone came to the meeting or some time into the meeting or sometime something.

B

Like that, I don't know if they're talking about until some time came to the meeting. Okay, we'll.

B

Take a look so yeah, it doesn't sort of make sense. So I don't know what it's supposed to be, but yeah.

C

um Then I was a good thing I was doing um since allison's. Not here, um then there was.

C

um Let's see page three, the bottom line, um the buffer plantings at the top of the could act as.

C

A living shoreline or enhance the shoreline rev rivet that meant what's? Is that a word? Yes? Okay,.

C

That's like a bulkhead. I have not heard that so, okay yeah, I should have looked it up. Sorry um and.

C

um Down on page five um at the where it says three third or excuse me, 39 colon 27 in the bracket.

C

Ms vaccaro, mr gendell and chair um mcmillan off talked about the floor. I don't remember.

C

Concerned that it wasn't for kayaks, but at least make it misgundo yeah.

C

I don't care if I'm there, and I trust this versus my memory anyway, so those are the only typos. I.

C

Found but okay anyway, I didn't see any anybody else. Yeah I did yep. I have a few and they're.

D

All on page seven, at the very top seven you said correct and in the third line down uh was told.

D

There was not enough funding for it and then it should continue in the annual operating budget.

D

And then in the sixth line down at the end of paragraph two, it should have another sentence.

D

That says, currently the city's parks are highly compacted and are not aerated.

B

Oh, I think barbara has barbara's hand is up. I believe, yep.

B

Are you, are you done ted? I have uh uh one more okay and that's at the uh number four.

D

uh It should be one million three hundred thousand a year, rather than just one million.

D

That's it. Thank you, so you have one raised hand: barbara, barbara yeah. Can you hear me? Okay, yep yep.

E

Camera at the same time, but um so I think the first one was on the first page um says members.

E

Absent alternate mika court. um She wasn't a member at the time. Oh yeah. She had resigned.

E

And then my other one is on page five, which is more of a question, and I should have checked.

E

On this before, but um one two three fourth paragraph down, mr riker responded. Yes, this.

E

Business, the business technically meets the new hampshire des definition of a marina, and I think.

E

It doesn't meet is what he meant to say or did say, but I didn't go back to listen to the recording.

E

You guys still there yeah we'll check on that. Okay, sorry, I'm sorry! I'm like.

A

Okay, that's it thanks barbara. Thank you. Anybody else, hi lynn, do you have any um comments? Okay,.

B

Someone like to make a motion I'll make a motion to approve the meeting minutes.

F

From the october meeting, with the changes noted previously sega, second, okay, so roll call vote.

B

uh Lynn, yes, oh sure, do I have to do any discussion for this if you want, but any discussion.

D

She's shaking the rust all right off- abigail, yes, uh no allison ted, yes jess, yes, barbara.

A

Yes and the chair boats- yes,.

B

Next on the agenda is wetland conditional use permit for 800 mcgee drive.

B

Anyone here to speak to that come on up.

G

I guess I mean I I spoke to a few of uas already um really wanted just to address any questions.

H

Tell us your name: oh I'm, sorry I'll, pull up your application on the screen! Sure darren kenny.

G

Applicant for the 800 mcgee drive additional use, permit.

H

Sorry, I'm getting there.

H

I think this is the best one.

H

And I'll try to put it full screen.

H

There you go so if you can just describe your project that probably yeah uh so the.

G

The request was um to essentially put in a 10 by 12, uh just a utility shed in the backyard.

G

um On a 12 by 14, crushed rock base, uh the entirety of the project would fall in within.

G

That buffer, so hence my my request from you folks, um but yeah, pretty simple: it's it's just kind of.

G

Being placed on top of that crushed rock pad, so you know no, you know maybe two inches of depth.

G

Or three inches of depth of crushed rock and then the the shed being placed on top of that.

B

Questions from commissioners.

I

Good okay, just curious because we did get to go out to see the site, which is super helpful and.

I

I guess we discussed a couple ways to make it a little less impactful on the wetland and one.

I

Was moving a little closer to the the driveway a little further from the wetland and then the.

I

Second thing was to thinking about adding some additional vegetation along the wetland itself.

I

And curious, if you thought about either of those and whether any opportunities well, I mean moving.

G

It forwards a little difficult just because there's the easement for the sewer pipe, but.

G

um I was looking at it today and it I in the strip of wind, so the the property lines are.

G

A little askew! So if you were to kind of draw a uh trying, I mean a rectangle from that that shed.

G

All the way back to the pond, the property line actually falls, so it would be beyond the shed at.

G

The pond level, so the vast majority of that land behind it actually is our neighbor's property.

G

um The piece that is ours, probably half of that- is already yard, and there is a sliver there that.

G

Is not but there's a couple of trees already in that section realistically, there's probably like a.

G

Maybe like a six by four foot area, that's six feet from that! Shed that there's nothing in.

G

Right now, this is like an ash tree that had died and there's a stump there, um but outside.

G

Of that, there's really not a lot. That's on our property, it's more! The abutting neighbors land.

G

But hey I'm happy to put something in that one little spot where the stump is. But there's not a.

G

Whole lot we have in terms of space behind it, that is in the buffer uh in terms of wild vegetation.

I

And you've got kind of like the seating area there too right. So there's like constraints.

I

Oh on that, over on that side, yeah sure the whole stretch yeah yeah- I mean that well.

G

Along there is already like along that senior is already the wild. I don't know what it is. It's a.

G

Little bit of everything- I guess at this point mostly cattails and then there's some sort of.

G

um Alder or something that grows in there.

I

So the answer was basically no you didn't no other alterations. I do not make any other alterations. No, I didn't.

C

Yeah go ahead um question for you or anybody else, because I couldn't be at the site visit.

C

um How uh I did go and look from the driveway or the from mcgee uh road.

C

um How far so this this edge, that's closest to the street? How far is that from the edge.

C

Of their driveway with the basketball uh hoop so from the front of the shed to the to the.

G

The driveway yeah like what's this, uh it would be probably 15 feet, but there's a sewer pipe.

G

That goes yeah. I had a feeling, since you were talking about the sewer easement I just from.

C

This scale I was yeah figuring out quite what we thought so. Okay, thank you. That's not a problem.

D

Your property is located very close to the wetlands. um Many folks that come through.

D

That want to disturb or put in something like this within 100 foot uh would subscribe to using.

D

Organic land management practices on maintaining their yard and it's pretty simple. We recommend.

D

The uh it's called no foot, the northeast organic farms association has an excellent manual. It's.

D

Really really flexible and we can send it to you and just ask that you follow volatility. Follow.

D

The best practices as far as the for maintaining the yard or I'm sorry, I'm not maintaining your.

D

Yard, you know what what type of fertilizer you put. I don't I don't do anything perfect.

G

But there are other recommendations in there too about things that you would want to plant.

D

Native plants, things like that: okay yeah sure, if you want to send that along okay. Thank you.

B

Any other questions.

A

I have a question yeah barbara.

E

um So for the area, that's the seating area in there.

E

um We were trying to figure out um technically it's sort of it's in the buffer for sure your.

E

Seating area, where the you know the fire is, and everything and the gravel is kind of something.

E

That normally, we wouldn't like allow without a permit, because you're kind of filling in.

E

The buffer area- and I don't know if that was there when you got the place, the house or not,.

E

um But I just wanted to: it was sort of an awareness kind of thing just to let you know that.

E

um That's that's not okay, and but the other part of it is um we just I don't know if you saw this.

E

Staff report was about having planting some native plantings along the edge. I know that.

E

You've been taking down and all the bittersweet and working on that and um we're just wondering.

E

If you'd be um amical to do some sort of plantings there native bushes and just to sort of enhance.

E

That open area down below there on the buffer, the the like beyond, where the the seating area is or.

E

No closer up so from because the sitting area is definitely um beyond the sitting area I think, is.

E

All I think it's invasives too, but it's all you know a natural buffer there, um but coming back.

E

Between the sitting area on the left and the your property line line on the right um coming,.

E

Back from where some of the trees are and some of the um yeah, you know behind the shed, probably yeah.

G

That's the area, that's not mine, that's uh that's our budding neighbors property for the most part.

G

um There's a sliver of land that is ours. On that the left-hand side uh we've got more over there.

G

um But that's certainly a bit more wild. The bittersweet's been a bit more difficult to.

G

Manage on that side, um but the the area behind the shed for the most part is not our property.

E

So is there an area that is not have an understory, maybe that on the around the sitting area, maybe.

G

uh I mean china if, if you're looking at the pond, where that seating area is the the left-hand side,.

G

Is essentially, all kind of you know overgrown with the bittersweet and trees that are dying at this.

G

Point but um the area in front is uh it's ferns and I'm not sure some sort of small shrubbery.

G

That's that's there and then to the right hand, side which would be the area behind the shed is.

G

What would be the neighbor's property? I I mean I'm happy to and open to suggestions. It's just.

G

That there's not a lot of areas over in that area that aren't already kind of left as is or not mine,.

E

Pathway like a stone pathway, yeah, that's the drainage from that that was that catches, the.

G

Runoff from that comes down the driveway and uh that's been there. I think, since the home.

G

Was built back in the 80s interesting, um so I just had one more question so to the left of the stone.

E

Pathway, that's your property right. The left of the stone property is the yard. Yes yeah. So in.

E

There, like you know, between the stone and and the sitting area, would be great. It's all grass that.

E

Goes down to whatever the natural vegetation, so it would be great to have some plantings in.

E

There, I think- and I don't know if people might have a better idea that are there in person.

B

Yeah I mean I, I think you, you have a small grass area to begin with which I I see your boys out.

B

There using it when we were out doing the sidewalk, so I understand you wanting to preserve as much.

B

Of that as possible, um so you're attempting to remove the bittersweet are you plant? Are you.

B

Planning on planting anything once that's kind of removed to help you know something else grow there.

B

I mean my neighbors and I have been you know the bittersweet's been quite a project yeah, I'm sure.

G

um And we're trying to save the trees that are still remaining uh there's been a few there's.

G

Been, I think, three white pine that have been put in there, as well as three spruce yeah in.

G

That kind of space between us at behind the shed uh there's also been some. um His wife is a big fan.

G

Of butterflies, so we've had some milkweed that's been put down. I don't know if it'll take or not.

G

But yeah and uh the space between us in the front, as well as the back we've we've had some of that.

G

Put in as well um but outside of that there's been no, it's been more of a proactive fight.

G

Against the the bittersweet than anything at this point, trying to get that maintained and knocked.

G

Down before making any attempts to to really put in anything in terms of long-term plans. Okay, but.

B

You that would be the plan, ultimately yes to put stuff in there. Okay, but it's been it's yeah, okay,.

H

Well, one thing I'd say: is the one way to stop the bittersweet from growing is to plant things.

H

That will shade it out. So if there's other plants growing, you might still have to pull.

H

Bittersweet as it comes up, but if you have other plants eventually they'll establish themselves.

H

And then the british sweep won't have sunlight to stimulate its growth so that you'd still have to.

H

You're always going to have bittersweet coming up. It's just a matter of living in portsmouth.

H

Really- and it's so established along that pond that you're going to have it. But if you put, if.

H

You planted a bed and I think what they're looking for is a bed along the size of the.

H

Shed you're putting in that you could maintain as plantings native plantings in your yard,.

H

Then the hope is that would offset the size of the shed impact for the buffer and provide.

H

Some native plantings, which provide habitat like the milkweed for butterflies, that kind of thing.

H

um So that's what I think: that's what they're they're looking for is an area.

H

That you're committed to that you would keep as a garden area with native plantings. I mean we.

G

Do have around the city, I mean there's two or three smaller kind of rock gardens. That.

G

To get fought over with the butter bittersweet as well that we maintain some plants and whatnot.

G

I mean I prefer not to have it in the middle of the yard which the boys do use.

G

um But if, if it can be more, you know not necessarily a a solid 10 by 14 by 10 space.

G

And it's maybe several smaller spaces, then that certainly could work. You know around the back area.

G

I can take a section along that um kind of that drainage area and put a piece there and then put.

G

Another piece down by the sitting area, if that would be acceptable, finding a spot that that is.

G

You know the same size as the shed might be a bit more difficult just because of the way the.

G

Lands laid out there's not a lot of open kind of areas other than in the middle of the yard.

G

um And then, as I progress on that other side, that's that is a little more wild at this point.

G

um You know the ultimate goal is to just get rid of the bittersweet and have it be a more you know.

G

um A more pleasing setting for kind of the the natural plants, as opposed to the the.

G

Stuff, that's killing all the trees yeah. I wasn't suggesting it'd be the same shape.

H

It's more the same square, footage! Okay, but I you know these guys. These guys should make the call.

D

A bunch of small spaces: fine, okay, have you or your neighbors, considered blueberries.

G

We've tried the blueberries and they've died every single time. No, that's too.

F

Bad, but I was gonna say that could be fun for your boys would be easy to just we've.

G

We've uh we've invested in blueberries like five years in a row. Now that's unfortunate.

B

Any other questions someone want to make a motion.

F

I will make a motion to.

F

Recommend approval for the wetland conditional use permit for 800 mcgee drive uh yeah. I think.

F

That's it, oh with the stipulations to follow nofa standards, yes, and to try to consider some native.

F

Plantings once you get the bittersweet a little bit more manageable, absolutely.

C

Second I'll second discussion.

B

I think going to the your property. I it's tight where to put plantings, I totally get it and.

B

Like we saw, your yard is backyard areas small and you use it. um I think removing trying to.

B

Remove that bittersweet is awesome, that's a really hard job and I it's appreciated.

B

um And I think what jeff said about you know, as you can filling in that.

B

Area with native plantings- I I think, might be the best area to do that.

B

I don't know if anyone else has any ideas about the plantings.

I

Okay, I mean to me the easiest thing sometimes is to just you know right. It goes right now.

I

From grass to kind of the cattails and to just kind of cut, you know move your your mow line.

I

Back just a bit, you know it'll kind of let those grasses right along the cattail grow.

I

A little bit taller can add a lot of like stability to the shoreline there and catch.

I

Any runoff from the house and improve water quality. You know, there's all sorts of benefits.

I

um So it's kind of an easy yeah thing to do. I got a little bit of planting would be great too yeah.

B

Yeah just try to keep stuff as natural as possible and then get.

B

Rid of the stuff- that's not supposed to be there and plant more natural. I guess.

A

Okay, are you ready for a vote.

B

All right, uh lynn, yes abigail, yes, ted jess, yes, barbara, yes and the chair votes. Yes, thank you.

J

Thank you thanks for your time. Thank you guys. Good luck! That's bittersweet! Yeah! I've done that before.

C

Yeah, I think she's here for something else, but I don't know what else should I'll announce it.

B

um All right next on the agenda is the wetland conditional use permit for 225 borthwick avenue.

B

We have anyone here to speak to that.

I

I've been trying to zoom in is there nobody trying to hop into the zoom meeting.

H

Oh, there is two people on here there we go brock market, yeah.

C

I see brock and heather. Are you guys here for the borthwick? That's correct: okay, hi.

K

Good afternoon heather here I don't know if you can hear me. Yes, we can, we can hear you yep super.

H

um I'll bring up your plan.

H

Oops just tell me where you want me to go I'll.

L

um I have a binder with the delineation and stuff as well. I don't, I don't think that was sent over.

L

Yet, but um so this this is actually decent place to start um or actually, if you want to go to the.

L

Aerial, I might give everyone a little bit better um idea. Where is that back still uh should be a.

L

Little that we're right there, so um this obviously it I I believe somebody I wasn't able I'm actually.

L

In georgia right now, but I I was up here about a year ago, um sorry brock, could you just introduce.

H

Yourself, I think it's brock mark. Oh I'm sorry. I brought marks with the wallace uh stormwater.

L

um We're the company that has been working with liberty, mutual to try to work on stabilizing the.

L

Shoreline um and uh we additionally have trc and heather online here's he did conducted the.

L

Wetland delineation as a part of the requirements to obtain the conditional use permit. Thank you.

L

All right so um yeah, so it there's some there's some erosion.

L

um Some lost stabilization, uh obviously the the shoreline is existing. Are the.

L

Side, slopes, uh they're more of a landscape feature than they are um any type of buffer.

L

Or anything that necessarily you'd want against any type of wave action or rise and fall a pond.

L

um And it's it's created some some sloughing along the side slopes so initially when we were engaged.

L

At I believe, was july of 2020, and we had started going down the road of doing some more ballistic.

L

Restorative practices for stabilizing the slope, such as what we have proposed, which is used in.

L

The core log of stone, toe and establishment of native oil and vegetation. It's a it's a.

L

Pretty small, narrow, buffer or narrow area right there at the uh the shoreline, so we wouldn't be.

L

Our learner's disturbance would be about three to four feet away from the normal water level.

L

With that's just that that was just that was client-oriented to kind of show something similar.

L

um If you go to the plans, it says that the they were that it was originally 22 um 0.4.

L

Feet of elevation for the normal water level, I believe that's just from looking at aerials.

L

um It's changed, uh you know or has risen over the years. Just with you know, normal facilitation.

L

um Standard loss volume, um but I don't know if I'm able to share screen up y'all like.

L

Me to I actually have a drawing or just kind of a markup that may help.

H

Do you want me to go to a different sheet? uh No, no! There's! I have a mark of that.

L

um May not might have helped or may show more, but I think this will show show enough.

L

um So, as far as our methodology, again, we're going to put in a stone, toe rip, rap stone, toe 12x12.

L

um We would do protection of the outlets or the primary outlet. We would not be impacting. We.

L

Would be inside of the 100 foot buffer from the lower right corner of the smaller pond.

L

um To the building moving north west to the building um in the same on the bigger final.

L

Lager pond um right from where the dotted line is right from the 50-foot parking setback is.

L

Where that line is extending all the way to the uh the culvert that goes into the smaller pond,.

B

Do you have any more to present, or is that? Are you ready for questions? No, so I I have. I don't.

L

Know if I'm able to share my screen, um I I have a a pretty. We have the wetland delineation and.

L

Everything that uh I'm not sure if um y'all have that copy or not. um I can try. Let's see.

H

Okay, sorry about that, oh there there you are yep. So it's it's pretty! It's pretty lengthy.

K

Donation, that would be great. Thank you. Heather.

L

Sure, yeah um afternoon, everyone heather's joe lazzi ward here wetland scientist with.

K

Trc companies um so trc uh myself and another wetland scientist tech went on site in the.

K

Early part of september to to conduct a full delineation. I am a licensed wetland. Scientist.

K

In the state of new hampshire, which I know is a requirement to delineate wetlands in new hampshire.

K

um So um we conducted a full analysis and on the property we identified two wetlands.

K

um You know much of the site is: is developed, it's been developed, um you know um for many many years.

K

With the liberty mutual building on site, um most of most of the site itself is landscaped and lawn.

K

Area so we we did identify two wetlands, one in the southern portion of the property, pretty small.

K

Isolated pocket, it is essentially a plaster and emergent wetland with um populated with.

K

You know purple loose, drive, cattails and then another wetland area, small polygon, to the to.

K

The north kind of closer to I-95- maybe you could flip through to there's a a good map. If you flip.

K

Down along in the delineation report that might aid kind of this overview, discussion of wetlands.

K

There we go yeah, that's perfect, okay, super! So the the first one that I was describing. That's.

K

um Characterized by cattails and purple blue stripe is that whsw1 down to the south.

K

um And then the second wetland um whsw2 is closer to I-95 to the northwest. That also is a small.

K

Isolated pocket, however, that does have two streams that run through it. It is developed up to the edge.

K

um You know with some lawn and pathways and and other you know, landscaping.

K

um It's quite nice, but you know it's been manipulated over the years.

K

um It appears that the two streams come in from under underneath.

K

um I-95 and run in a southerly direction through south westerly. Excuse me southeasterly direction.

K

Through the wetland and in towards water body hsw1, the larger pond to the south.

K

um Which is also we delineated that as a resource and um did a little looking.

K

Through aerial maps, and it appears that that pond has been in place since pre-jurisdiction.

K

So that that was something we did look into. um The second water body is off to the to the north.

K

East and that's wbhsw2 smaller pond again, you know, appears to be man-made.

K

um And that hat does have an outlet via culvert that flows to the north.

K

Okay, yeah, if you wanna, if you care to flip through and see any photos, I don't know if.

K

You're familiar with the site, but um that, in a nutshell, is, is um you know what we turned up for.

K

um Delineation of oil and water bodies.

H

You want me to go to any photos. I will I they have the whole application in front.

H

Of them, but if you want okay, anybody who might be watching.

H

um I can go to any photos. You want tell me to go to the photo yeah. If you want to go to the photos.

K

um I don't know if you can zoom in but but this is um wetland one off to the south. This first.

K

One that I described to the south, you can see the purple loose, drive and cattails it's mode.

K

um Basically, to the edge, although we did delineate um on that second photo to the bottom they're.

K

Mowing over the over the delineated wetland, so um some of the wetland is is mowed, which is which is.

K

Okay, it's part of a landscaped area, but um did just want to point that out that it's you know.

K

It extends beyond the extents of what is not mode it's bigger than than that large taller vegetation.

K

If you want to flip through to the next page, um that is um kind of an overview of the other, well.

K

In the second one to the northwest closer to I-95 wetland 2., it's a little bit more wild um a little.

K

Bit wetter cattails purple, loose strife and and other sedges characterize that site, and this is.

K

The one that has the two streams running through it, if you want to flip down to the next page.

K

um This really tough to see the streams, they're they're, quite small and and sort of deep.

K

um They're they're a little bit eroded. They appear to be a little flashy, which is expected.

K

In an area that has you know um quite a bit of development surrounding the area, but you.

K

Know and and fairly good shape, just hard to see in the photos, but those are the channels there.

K

And those appear to be perennial streams, if you flip down to the next page again,.

K

Another photo of the streams, and then you can see that that some of the landscaping has.

K

um Bridges and pathways and and over the um the delineated streams. So it's a nice area.

K

For the employees and staff to walk about now, if you flip through to the next one.

K

um Again, yeah just shows more of the developed nature of of these features of the stream features.

K

And the next should show on the two water bodies, so this is the larger water body. That's to the.

K

South of the property that has fountains and as brock was saying it's you know it's.

K

Landscaped with grass pretty much to the edge of the open water that appears to be a man-made pond.

K

And if you flip down to the next one um water body, two is shown.

K

In this in the bottom photo and that's the smaller pond, that's to the northeast of the site.

K

And I think that's it for photos.

K

If you have any questions about about the resources, I'm happy to happy to answer, but.

K

Yeah again, you can see that there is quite a bit of nice landscaping around, but um as brock noted.

K

There is some, you know, there is some erosion, I believe it's from wind action and just the the.

K

Nature of the the mode grass condition up to the edge of the water, um particularly um along the.

K

Eastern side of of the ponds that would really benefit from this shoreline stabilization with.

K

The core log and, and you know, putting some more native plantings in and just you know the the.

K

Practice of maybe not mowing straight down to the edge of the water, so, overall, um I would see this.

K

As you know, benefiting the water quality and also the stabilization of the of the edge of the pond.

K

Are there any questions about um donated resources, yeah jess,.

F

I'm not so much uh sure it's about the resources I apologize. I couldn't go to the sites uh walk.

F

But I'm just trying to understand so is the silt sock gonna go like right along that grassy edge.

F

Is that where they're is that, where you're gonna put it heather.

L

So the so we'll we'll cut the edge back just a just a little bit kind of uh pair it back to.

L

um The it'll it'll meet up against where the compact fill is. I don't know if you can pull.

L

Up the original one or the the scope of work again, um and I actually just emailed a a binder for it.

L

um If you want to share your screen brock um yeah, oh, am I able to you can't you could yeah. I think.

H

um They're gonna stop my sharing um all right, I think yeah. I think we can get you going here.

L

All right, so let me rejoin. Let me uh pull this up for everyone.

L

L

Can we see it not yet? Oh here it comes something it's coming.

H

Okay, all right, sir. Excuse me I'll try not to give anyone uh whiplash here.

L

Scrolling through.

L

L

All right, so this will probably give hopefully give a little bit better, and this wasn't on the.

L

Original one, so this is if this area right here where my cursor is, is the side slope.

L

um On on both pawns- and this is the normal water level, which is at 22.3 design, appointment, you'll.

L

Be able year, one you'll be able to see the top of that core log, one plus two growing seasons, it'll.

L

Hopefully be that that native vegetation will proliferate along that shoreline, they will still.

L

Be able to have some of their landscape features beyond or up the slope, but this will act as a.

L

Stabilizing agent or a method of stabilization, as well as since that the soil is kind of it.

L

It's kind of lucky underneath where the the grass meets this will act as a reinforcement for the.

L

um For the the shoreline, that's how the slope itself, which is you know the way of action, went.

L

Action, that's is causing the erosion. It also looks like it might be a little soft underneath.

L

So that was, you know the repair methodology for um that we use a lot for this type of erosion.

F

Thank you. No problem.

B

Other questions.

B

I have one um so I don't know if you read the staff memo, but they recommend.

B

um Details being provided about the species to be planted.

B

And just more information about the maintenance of it, so that it survives.

L

Yes, so the so on and when we initially done this, we hadn't quite gotten that far. But I.

L

So the intent would be to try to mimic some of the species that are surrounding so I know that.

L

um We had the other, you can speak to that part a little bit, but what I had going was with you.

L

Know more along lines with herbaceous, since it doesn't have a a large area right there. There's.

L

Already some naples and stuff that were they were part of the design, so I just want milkweed twin.

L

Flower, joe pie, weed tussocks edge if we wanted to put in some multi-stem or woody stem vegetation.

L

Or shrubs rather red oyster, dogwood and button brush, um so this would equate to approximately.

L

What the oil and plugs they're about 2 348 plants along this, uh this vegetative buffer, were about.

L

Six plants per yard of of the the plugs so that'll. If we have an 80, you know um success rate they'll.

L

Still allow for significant proliferation, especially this of the uh jeff highway.

L

um To be able to kind of inundate that that that buffer and provide a good.

L

um A good football, a good buffer, um so that would be. That was the tentative plan.

L

um Some of it were hoping to get guidance as far as what what the board was like as well.

L

This is where we need allison. Did you think that was in the plan? Yeah? Is that in the plan or is.

B

um In writing, anywhere at the time at the proposal that was sent over was six uh so in.

L

Accordance with the new hampshire um wetland vegeta, what the the recommended vegetation.

L

um We just hadn't specified it at that time, so the document I just sent over does have it.

B

Okay, so is that fine, then, if that's then yeah what we asked for and the staff member was it.

H

Be provided before it goes to planning board. So if that's your planning board packet and it has the.

H

Specific plantings that you just described and that's what we'd be looking for. Okay, understand.

H

Does it have like the spacing and the look like the a planting plan, basically.

L

uh We do not have a design one, but we can provide one. um You know it would we.

L

Would try to all it has is that we were going to do six per per uh square yard.

H

Yeah, I think just so we have it, because we we put a condition in there about the survival, so we'd.

H

Have to have something to measure against that you provided yep, that's not a problem.

A

E

Thank you, um so I um was out at the site too and uh well. I had a question first about the.

E

Geotextile, um what you're, using the tr m250 or whatever, what it's made out of.

L

Yes, so that would be that is, that is going to be a coconut uh fiber. So it's actually you that and.

L

That was if we were going to do this in the winter and then plan on planting more in the spring is.

L

More of a temporary stabilization so that you know if it did have any type of disturbance and then it.

L

Would be tr125 as coconut fiber last not in the theorem 25? That would be purely coconut, fiber.

H

Did you say tr250 was not coconut fiber, that is, that would be a temporary stabilization.

L

Method, if we were doing that uh pre-went if we were getting close to the the.

L

The uh first killing frost this season.

B

When are, when is your uh plan to plant? I mean we would be assuming that this you know whenever.

L

This would be approved would be the beginning of planting season would be, I would assume, in.

L

April we were, probably you know realistically so then you, you probably wouldn't have to use.

L

No, we wouldn't, it was just if we were going to do the remediation piece now. You know prior to.

L

The end of the year, but you know that that when that set was set in motion, it was back.

L

In july, so it's looking like we're getting a little bit closer to this is a 2023. okay,.

A

Go ahead, barbara, more good! Thank you. um Sorry. uh So, on page five of your application.

E

What we received there is a drawing there or schematic of what the the riff raff would be.

E

And and where would the log be, and it seemed pretty similar to what you were showing us.

E

um So the riprap toe it says, is below the water line. Correct, so are you so that's kind of filling.

E

In along the edge or you're cutting back and then replacing it with that rib rat toe, that's.

L

Correct so that that is what you know you have downward forces from that slope. So that is what.

L

Would actually stabilize the slope itself with the the um log? Would the toe the log would rest upon.

E

Okay, so to follow up on that, just I don't know if you found out whether or not you need to.

E

Get a wetlands permit a state wetlands permit because you're working below that water line.

L

um Yeah, I guess our question with it is: is it would? Is this going to be a piece of.

L

And I guess this has been our question with this in most areas, I guess it's.

L

um For normal maintenance erosion maintenance, how would it be repaired normally.

L

um If it was just standardized erosion and that's not a challenge, it's a legitimate.

L

Question so I guess that's that's been the entire thing for the client as well has been.

L

um The repair of erosion in general as part of the o m, the operating and maintenance agreement.

L

Would that be necessary uh as well to be able to do erosion, repairs elsewhere on the spawn.

H

Well, the position of the city is that you're you're putting phil in a in a wetland. So that's.

H

Why you're here for the wetland per month in terms of the state terms of the state, um I guess that's.

H

Not our jurisdiction, so we that's why we're asking. I think barbara's asking.

L

No, no, no, I understand um yeah so that and that that clarifies a little bit for me. So we would.

L

Be pulling back just just to where the slope would tie into or just back underneath where.

L

The water line is, uh and so it'd be extending out 12 inches, or it would be underneath where.

L

The the slope kind of ends where the water line is that would be the forward leading edge of the.

L

um The rock trenched in it would be in in the soil, not necessarily touching the water.

E

Okay well appreciate, if, if you don't mind, checking to make sure that you don't need one. um Thank you.

E

um And I I just had a couple of other questions um before you go on. Barbara does soap yeah just.

H

So we're all clear because it will be a it will be a condition of any city permit that you get.

H

All state approvals necessary, so um I don't know that we need to make it a stipulation that you.

H

Have it before the planning board, but I think you do have to follow up with the state and let.

H

Us know how they responded, so we know you know when we approve this permit that it's not going.

H

To need a state whaling perimeter, it is going to need a state willing permit. Just so we're clear.

H

Ownership: okay, thanks! Thank you.

E

um So I have more questions, but I can wait. Go ahead. Barbara.

E

um Thank you. um So the other thing was you're going to be pumping out water.

E

Or dewatering the pond, and I was wondering where you're pumping that to and how much.

E

You're taking out so we would lower it enough to be able to you know in.

L

Order to mechanically stabilize it, we would have to lower it just enough to be able to.

L

um Actually do that, um so that would be approximately 12 inches. We would uh pump.

L

Into filter bags, which would been cycled back up to the larger pond, or vice versa, to the lower.

L

Palm it would be pre-filtered from trading through bmp, okay, I didn't see the filter bags in there, but.

E

um Thank you and then I just had one more question. Yeah absolutely um so it has a little bit to do.

E

With the maintenance and just overall um the uh I guess, it's not a question then.

E

um So the erosion didn't seem that bad when we were there, but it's awesome that you're doing.

E

This, so it's something that we've asked the liberty mutual to do for a long time is to put.

E

Some buffers plantings along the edge because that pond is, I don't know if it's aerated, because it.

E

Just gets too much nitrogen in there or or what or too much phosphorus in there, but that landscaped.

E

Area around the pond, it's what's totally killing the pond, because it's just I mean that's really.

E

Really green grass that they maintain all the way down to the water's edge. So.

E

You know it would be awesome if they would consider doing more plantings along the.

E

Edge of the water, not necessarily right down to the water, but but in the buffer.

E

um You know not having to stabilize or anything like that, and we were really hoping that somebody.

E

From liberty mutual would be here, but uh that would totally be a huge request that we've.

E

Been asking for a long time, because it would also help mitigate the geese, which are contributing to.

E

Let's have a problem with the pond, and so every time they come for something we ask this and.

E

Every time it's still the same thing, they're, maintaining it the same way, I'm sure they're.

E

Using tons of fertilizer along the edge that grass is so green and mowing right down to the water.

E

um And my ask would be somehow to get them to do something different here. We could absolutely.

L

Advise we can absolutely advise, I mean we're we're in the position of um you know, trying to get. We.

L

Are a conservationists at heart, so we try to try to meet in the middle. So if we can advise to you.

L

Know make it in accordance, we absolutely will. That would be great, and then I yeah, and I would just.

E

Echo, the other things that they, um everybody else has said about the maintenance and and if it's.

E

Possible to let that grass grow up between the the core log and the existing um mulched areas that.

E

Are there there's a lot of grass in between that really just could just grow up or or be seated.

E

With, like a you, know, some sort of mix that lin mix or something like that when you're doing the work.

E

um Because it's just not necessary, it totally would be awesome. So that's my request.

L

No, that's absolutely! That's! That's absolutely doable.

L

um Yeah our overall intent as well, so we're we're good with that. Thank you. Advise.

L

Thank you anything else, barbara.

A

I'm good thanks ted yeah. um I uh share barbara's concerns about the surrounding uh landscaping and.

D

uh The concerns that, where that water flows from those ponds it goes off-site from there.

D

As well, so you know we're we're adding way too much nitrogen things of that nature and slowly.

D

In there and then flowing off site uh the the question is: uh we've asked other applicants.

D

And people where you do it would be wonderful if liberty mutual could follow the standards.

D

The note standards set by the northeast organic farms, association, just the applicant that was.

D

In here, just before you on the agenda same thing, they happily agreed to follow nofa.

D

Standards- and it will be wonderful as part of this application, if that were a condition of approval.

L

Understood. Thank you.

L

We will advise on this. You know. Obviously I I didn't realize that we didn't have anyone from.

L

uh Liberty, legal here, but we will uh definitely advise on. We go through similar things in.

L

Durham and all over the rest of the country where we work so uh nothing alarming or new.

J

When, along those lines I you know, I hear you kind of describing yourself as a conservationist, and I.

I

Guess I'm curious if there are other designs that you considered for this pond. You know when your.

I

Client came to you and and said: what should we do? Were there other alternatives that you considered.

L

Yes, so I mean the the big thing was is when we were when we were looking at it originally.

L

You know, obviously the client was they had. The first thing we wanted to do was.

L

Take out the rip wrap on the other side which was installed. You know at some point previous.

L

um You know the as far as mechanically sound or mechanically um restoring that shoreline.

L

From a strictly engineering aspect is, the downward slope is, is the concern once that.

L

Toe has been destabilized and I think that you know I wish I had a a better picture to show.

L

um It's the same, exact way that we would do we do in shorelines uh and stream banks.

L

um So, yes, we, we absolutely could just do you know just through the uh remediation with.

L

Core log, the concern being that there is still the sloughing erosion, the wind action erosion.

L

Now we can do a live fast scene. There are multiple other options.

I

So why did you choose this one? uh Because it was the most stable um time for the plants to uptake.

L

um It's also goes along with you know, some of the federal and and state guidance for doing this.

J

Mm-Hmm, have you been to the site? I have I mean it's a it's not like a high energy system. I guess.

I

That's why I was wondering if there's anything, even softer that could be done without having.

I

To excavate and add rock just you know it's a high energy system, so it's not like a you know, I'm sure.

I

I guess I'm guessing. The erosion is just kind of from heavy rain events. Is that yourself? It could.

L

Be it could it could be? um I honestly, I think it's from the vegetation, the grasping mode too,.

L

Close uh for a long time with with that and wind, you know minor wave action. Yes, the rise and fall.

L

um And you know no 10 in the way, depending on how it's instructed, depending on what the.

L

Backfill was, if that, if it is soft and then just started, slopping up off over the last 20 years,.

L

um You know the owners um many other uh sites, we would, you know still. We would lay that grade back.

L

A little bit and then restore an actual buffer, an actual area, so I mean we're trying to go as.

L

As minimally invasive as possible and that that was kind of what just kind of conclusion, we came.

L

To is that 12 by 12, while also having the most stability right yeah, that was my instinct too, was.

I

Just to like use the slope a little bit, make it a little more gradual slope and then it wouldn't.

I

Be such a spot for erosion, correct, yep and it, and so that was I mean we we're all for uh doing that.

L

As well so I mean it, I mean really that that's the one that I think it's the larger part has.

L

A little bit steeper slope, the smaller one um is not as severe um and that you know that. Would you.

L

Know definitely be an option on a larger pond would be, but we were kind of figuring that the.

L

Destabilization or the exposing of more soil or the you know less more vegetation that we.

L

Disturb the more you know, turbidity or you know, suspended solids are potentially in our system.

J

I

So is there anything else, you'd like us to recommend to the client.

I

I mean you do um yeah, I mean I'm all, for you know the the it's.

L

It would be ideal if, like I said we could, we could get rid of some of the the landscape.

L

Type vegetation, the grass you know, obviously get to more of a bmp style uh or what we call.

L

Vnp style- or you know more of a maintaining it like a pond as opposed to a water feature.

L

um You know would be ideal um and then yeah I mean that would be kind of the biggest biggest.

L

Thing if we could get rid of some of the the existing plant, I can't remember how what type.

L

Of trees it had I like to look but um yeah. If we could just turn into a buffer area, would be ideal.

I

Okay, it sounds like that's kind of are longer thinking too. Oh I'll, stop my questioning.

F

Yeah jess uh along those lines brock. I know at one point when heather was telling us about the two.

F

Wetlands on the property, she said that one of them actually currently part of it gets mowed over. If.

F

You had any conversations or recommendations, weird weird, strictly the uh we did not maintain the site.

L

And this is not a cop-out, we are 100 engaged, as we were more than happy to uh consult and maintain.

L

The site, I believe they have a landscaping company okay, so your focus has really been on the pond and.

F

Nothing beyond that. No, this is just the shoreline upon. We are not touching anything outside our.

L

Linear disturbance is going to be very confined to that one area. Okay, thank you. No problem.

B

Any other questions someone want to make a motion.

F

I'll get it started, I might need some help. um I will make a motion to recommend approval.

F

Of the wetland conditional use permit for 225 borthwick with the following.

F

Stipulations or recommendations, I don't what stipulations stipulations. Yeah, okay,.

F

uh So I would stipulate that they no longer mull over a wetland. Yeah.

J

I don't know what the proper uh or recommend to their yeah.

F

Like what can you do with that yeah? Well, I guess I'm wondering I mean it's.

H

The problem is it's a wetland, that's not in your jurisdiction, because it's not.

J

Size, so you can recommend it, but I don't think you can require it if it was in it if it was a.

H

Greater than 10 000 square foot wetland you could require it got it, but um but you could.

J

Recommend anything to you yeah on that one yeah. So on that one, I think, probably a recommendation. Okay,.

H

um Would be in order? Okay, unless we change our ordinance to cover everything or unless it's.

H

A vernal pool which didn't sound like it was right, okay, so so that would be a recommended.

F

I recommend that okay recommend, but the nofa um requirements yeah. Is that a I think um if they.

F

Agree to it, you can require it, but it's not in our ordinance, so they would have to agree to it.

H

So you can recommend it and they can bring it back to their applicant and hopefully by the planning.

H

Board they can have an answer that they can agree to it: okay, okay: we can make it a planning board.

H

Stipulation if they can agree to it, okay, so we'll worry about it to recommendations. Yeah.

F

But a stipulation can be that they have the planting plan included prior to going to the.

F

Planning board yeah and maintenance, dynamic yeah or when continuing with recommendations. That's a.

F

Stipulation that one can be a stipulation just stipulations. Okay, we're doing both. I.

C

Do recommend because I'd like more more of that grass, where the grass meets the water, not where.

C

They're talking about but everywhere else as well to be planted out and not along because they're.

C

Going to run in the same problem later I mean I know it's, the grades are low, but well anyway,.

C

I'll save this for the discussion part, um but that could be. I don't know as a recommendation that.

C

Maybe they plant out all of their, um so I have the the no mowing as a recommendation and nofa.

H

As a recommendation yes and the planting plan as a stipulation, yeah 90 survival after a year- and you.

F

Have maintenance, I'm assuming part of the planting plan, is the maintenance? uh Well, that's the.

H

80 survival part I think, okay yeah and then what let's call it as maintained to provide 80 survival.

B

So then, to add your piece recommend more of a more vegetation like more native plantings,.

C

Around all of our shorelines, I don't know so for all the way around the pond yeah.

J

Pretty much get rid of the get rid of the lawn all going up to the water. If it's a.

H

Recommend conversion of shoreline from grass to native plantings, yeah yeah.

C

Much like what they're doing now, but they could do it without putting in all this stone and the.

C

The coil, the coil and definitely never moving down to the water's edge yeah if they started planting.

C

A grass that's a wetland grass, and then they don't mow.

D

I'm out there to take a look at this site and I had my dog with me.

D

And I didn't want him to go on the lawn blame. You.

B

Okay and then I don't know if we need to do the stipulation about following up.

B

For a state wetland permit or if that's just assuming good, to put it in there, then it gets.

H

Called out okay! So because we do, it does need to comply with whatever the state says. So we're.

H

Going to need to know okay so that they they don't call them we'll, have to call them before.

H

Well, I don't know that they have any building permits, but um the wetland permit requires that. So.

H

We would put it as part of the planning board approval so and.

H

So I'm just going to say stipulation that they contact the state and report back.

H

Report back on a determination whether they need to stay with them permit yeah.

H

Perfect all the roping around there. I guess it's I'm assuming mix to keep the geese out, because two.

C

Springs ago I saw a whole lot of moms and babies like had to they were crossing the road trying. It.

C

Find water somewhere um uh that doesn't seem to be in line with wetland policy? Does it of keeping.

C

I mean I know if it's trying to, I don't know the poop. The goose poop is washing down anyway,.

C

So and there are geese that fly in and land in there, so what's what's the rationale they just.

C

Don't want to have as many geese there, because they've got lawn, that they want to keep green.

C

I don't know anyway wow so do we have any more stipulations or recommendations that we want to.

B

Add the set, I mean that's what maybe, where is that something take out the stuff, but I I guess.

B

Well, it sounds like they might be, anyways we'll have to take it out to do the work and they won't.

H

Probably I don't know if they want to play with that, because we would not leave that sorry does.

C

Does brock know anything about this? He said they would not leave it the wire they won't leave. It.

C

There we will not okay and around the the rest of the edge you're. Probably that's out of your domain.

L

That was out of the scope, but we would gladly do the rest of it as well. So [laughter].

E

You can add that as a stipulation, yeah yeah, that's what I was thinking. Okay,.

C

Is it if you guys want yes to stipulate that the remainder of the ponds to do it, remove the wire.

B

Oh remove the wire, or is that what you're saying I guess take out the wire yeah, or was it also to.

B

Do this same plan all the way around the oh? I have that already. Okay, if they're planting all.

H

Around they probably recommend the shoreline be converted from yeah. I don't think you can require.

H

It at this point yeah no, but you can recommend it and then the stipulation to remove the wire.

J

Thank you. Maybe they can record I'm trying to think if you could require the version of the bank.

H

Yeah kind of a gray area it could create a much lovelier and less.

C

um They might like it if they get sort of got nudged. I don't know because.

C

Once you go more natural a lot of times, people like it better, but.

C

We're about mindset, so we have a mindset so we're I mean we. We can absolutely advise that.

L

The nodes have made as well, so we advocate for them, but we we also want it to be able to be done.

B

So do we need us, we need a second on that connect. Can I just before you do a second yeah, ask a.

E

Question sure it has to do with the stipulations is: is it possible? Would people be in favor of.

E

Having a stipulation that they don't mow down to the water's edge, because I think that was.

E

A recommended yeah with I don't know, and I can call it a recommendation or a stipulation.

E

Is hoping stipulation, yeah yeah if everybody's okay with it I'll put it in that way,.

B

The water's edge.

H

So what I have now is recommend conversion of shoreline from grass to native plantings.

H

Which would prevent mowing down to the water's edge? And that was a recommendation. But we could.

A

Say at a minimum, yeah no mowing to the water's edge. But what does that mean that they have to.

B

Allow it to naturally, but where, how many five feet or ten feet yeah I mean yeah did barbara, say.

I

Fun, what do you think brock.

I

Yeah, that would be so the yeah our standard buffer is anywhere from six to ten feet.

L

um You know when we do o m any type of maintenance anywhere else that would be in any most designed.

L

Constraints for construct a wetland would be 16b, we're gonna, say six to ten feet: okay, [laughter].

H

Next to 10- and that gives us the flexibility calculation yep. That's what you guys wanted.

H

So that's going to be all part of the one abby started, but it'll finish with that. So that'll be a.

H

Recommend conversion of shoreline from grass to native plantings, shoreline buffer.

H

From grass to native plantings, which would prevent mowing down to the water's edge at a minimum.

H

uh Commission rec uh commission stipulates no mowing within six to ten feet.

H

And the planning board might do whatever they do with it, but um I would think they would follow it.

J

And I know we're we're recommending they take a close look at the nofa.

I

Standards- maybe we could just also remind them that there are rules about the slow release, fertilizer and the amount of fertilizer. I mean this.

I

Is within a buffer so just about our rules just to remind them of that that that's the minimum.

I

And the staff memo okay, perfect, a reference to this deputy. So this to this regulations.

E

Do you need a second, or did you do it.

H

You got a second also, oh, did I get a second? No, not yet! Second, I second it. Oh okay,.

B

Abigail or barber.

E

Okay, I never get to second home. So, oh then you should.

B

Okay discussions: we've already discussed a lot yeah anything else. I just want to add, though,.

E

I mean- and I don't know whose benefit this is for, but I'm thinking so we met on the property.

E

The person that we met with said that they love to landscape liberty, mutual. Does that.

E

And- and that was really obvious and but their idea of what is beautiful and our idea of what.

E

Is beautiful are two different things, so I feel like if we're gonna put ourselves out there. This.

E

Is a really good time to do it um so and to make these stipulations, because we've tried so many.

E

Times with liberty, mutual and and they do like it to look pretty and um and that's just that.

E

You know artificial, looking landscape that they like, so I think this is a really great opportunity.

A

I agree, I agree.

A

Are we ready for a vote.

B

uh Lynn, yes, abigail, yes, ted, yes, jess, yes, barbara, yes and the chair votes. Yes,.

H

Great okay, thanks brock and heather. Thank you. Thank you. Not a problem baby thanks. Everyone.

B

All right so other business. um The first thing we have on here is discuss the 3 30 pm meeting time.

B

So this was something uh barbara and I started talking about a little bit just probably starting.

B

From when we didn't get a quorum and jess had to run down here to save the meeting.

B

And just wanted to discuss what people's thoughts were about, potentially changing the meeting time.

D

To what well, we don't know yet, because we don't even know what the options really are with the.

B

City and other meetings and things like that. But just we're curious and also um being that the.

B

3 30 time we think might hint does hinder some applicants to be on the commission just because.

B

It's during the work hours, um but anyways. We were just interested in having a discussion about it.

B

If anyone has thoughts, that's that, if you, if you decide on a time, we can look at different.

H

Days, but not knowing the time it's harder, I mean I I mean again. I think it would and.

F

Peter it sounds like maybe the day possibly would change. I think once we figure out once.

H

We figure out what time you want, then we can talk easier about the day, but you know if it's.

H

Yeah because there's a lot of meetings that start at seven right, um some start at 6 30, but.

H

um Not as and then summer at like 7 30 in the morning and then summer, midday, but not many right,.

H

Parking traffic and safety- I didn't even know that was.

D

Suggesting in evening time I'm not suggesting you know I, I would prefer an evening time.

B

But again you know I'm not even if it remains at 3 30, I'm I'm committed to being here. So it's just.

F

I I appreciate those points, but you know like it might afford more people.

F

To consider this commission- and you know at like you- I am committed to being here.

F

But the 3 30 is definitely hard logistics, wise from my work and life perspective, so.

F

I mean for me, like maybe even an extra hour, or something would be helpful if it just was.

F

Closer to sort of the more typical normal day, you know, yeah, that's what I was thinking too.

I

Like a four o'clock start rather than a 3 30, even yeah like four or four thirty, just something that.

F

It was, it might make it a little easier for yeah other pieces to kind of come together.

I

That's part of the problem, too: is: we've just had vacancies yeah yeah. So um on that note is.

C

Mika, because I was I had when we were doing the minutes um and barbara mentioned- is mika not an.

C

Because I thought she was going to be fall, she resigned and- and she was that's what I thought.

C

So she, okay, because having her as an alternate, I was like wait a minute. I thought she was made of.

C

Foam then so I didn't know okay, so she has to move both. She and her husband right. So they've.

D

Gone through this process of having to move, I guess on an ex soon uh something's happening to.

D

Their existing buildings that they're renting so yeah um and then you ran into somebody who.

C

Was interested, and but that was not mika that you guys were talking about somebody else who.

C

Wanted maybe back on the situation? Oh yeah, that was a former member yeah of the commission, yeah.

C

um And the two new people are, then: are they full-time? Are they full? um Let's see one two.

C

There's a so mika's spot was a regular yeah. It was because she stared as an alternate and then.

D

Became yeah and then so there's one regular and one alternate on the next city council agenda.

B

So then do we have, are we completely full or no? We believe that fills up all the slots. Great yeah.

I

I feel like we should wait till they join before we yeah make any changes.

C

Yeah, no because maybe they yeah they just got here and then all of a sudden yeah. I mean.

I

And they might have a preference for this time. I've also heard yeah folks have a preference for.

I

This because you're, not missing bedtime with your kids or whatever like that, might be the opposite.

I

Opinion sure, well, I love the time, but partly is for decades. I went to some of the evening.

D

Meetings, I can't stand yeah yeah. I understand that too yeah and we would be dragging come like if.

I

This were like a seven to nine meeting yeah. I know there's pros and cons. I think too. We could look at.

H

um If you want us to look at where the calendar for the next meeting.

H

Would be, but if you're looking in the afternoon, I think you're. Okay until.

H

You know if you started at 4, 30 you'd probably be okay. The only problem is hdc sometimes would be a.

H

Conflict in here, because it'll tighten up how much time you have but like a meeting like today, I know.

H

You know you're fine yeah, because it's not two hours but um and you could limit it to two hours.

H

If you wanted to do that and then with a backup for a meeting and we could even hold the room for.

H

A backup meeting the following week, um something like that. If you're going to go later in the day.

H

And you're bumping up against another meeting. You could just automatically put a backup meeting in.

H

um Every month, so that we know something like that, but if you want to go in the.

H

Evening then, you have to decide whether it's wednesday will work and what I don't know if.

H

The second ones they'll work, because htc a lot of times has the second wednesday too.

B

Yeah I mean I'd also prefer that we just get it all done in one meeting. Yeah yeah me too try to.

B

Plan a second one is annoying, so I I guess then starting earlier affords us that ability to do it.

F

And then, if we change the meeting time, would that also change the.

F

Well, we can still try to do them a week before the meeting one of the things that we realized.

H

On that, sidewalk is that we don't even have the applications out to you guys. Yet we've.

H

Just received them yeah, so we'll have to figure out a way to give you at least some.

H

Information, usually a lot of applicants will bring a plan and that usually covers.

H

It so we'll just have we didn't think about that this time, but we'll try to.

H

Try to think about that for future ones, but yeah it's going to be dark sooner.

C

Too so yeah, that's why we stayed with 3 30 just because you get started so early.

I

It's okay! I love that. Having a standing time, though, for the sidewalks, I think.

I

That's a great way to do it and then we can plan around it and yeah and we're hoping it.

H

Encourages more sidewalks because it's always helpful to get out there and see it yeah I'd.

D

Suggest, let's get our new members and you know get their input too when they come on board.

A

I think that's a good idea. Okay, all right so we'll check in with allison too yeah.

B

All right so we'll leave that for now yeah she has her six o'clock meeting. I know I know yeah.

C

But I know we are both on a seven o'clock zoom meeting every wednesday as well, so well that.

B

Was the other thing too? Is we talked to the mayor about the fact that to have a quorum, you have to.

B

Be in person and he was like well, that's that's a state level thing and I think he was. I don't know.

B

He said he might look into it, but I don't know because that would be helpful too, for when we.

B

Can't get a quorum in person, we don't have people having to like run down and we can still the.

B

Meeting can still go on even if it's got people remotely, but I don't know if that's a pie in the.

B

Sky thing: yeah people have asked the legislature, but that's the law right now. Okay, all right.

B

The next thing is the wetland boundary marker sign draft which cape do you want to speak to this? One.

H

I think that you guys should all have them in front of you right yeah. Oh I'm, not gonna pull.

M

It up here yep, so I handed out two copies: well, not two copies, but there's two versions now.

M

um That the adrian name plates is the company that we're working with so they gave us two proofs.

M

um The first one they gave us looked a little crowded, so we asked them to sort of switch up.

M

The wording so this this is the one they just recently gave us yesterday I'll see. If I have.

M

They moved the city yeah, that's there's the first one yeah. Oh, no sorry. So they moved the.

M

City, a portion of wording on top just so it was a little less crowded at the bottom, but this is.

M

Sort of the sketch we kind of talked through at the last meeting. So if there's anything.

M

We want to change or add we can still do it now before we put in an order, we decided that.

M

We're going to order 250 signs to start just as a big bulk order and to save some money so.

M

This is what we're working with, if you guys have any ideas or if you like it or if you want to.

M

Change the phrases or the logo, we can do that. We can't really add too much more because they're.

M

Concerned with it getting too busy, but I think that's what we decided on for the wording at least.

M

Material gonna be 10, I think, is what it was stamp metal. I like it yes, and I like that, one with the.

F

City of portsmouth above I agree, the first version is what's a little crowded on the bottom yeah. I.

C

Agree too yeah good. You end up not reading as much of it. When you have the three movies.

I

Do we do we need the city of portsmouth and the conservation commission, because I have.

I

To say it, it kind of makes it look like it's. It's publicly, you know city-owned land versus this is.

I

Just going on somebody's property right, true, um I mean I'd, be fine with no city of ports within.

I

No conservation commission like because they have the two messages to me- are more important.

I

Yeah peter and I were talking about portsmouth conservation commission, but.

M

I can't remember I didn't sound like we weren't, really feeling that either well.

H

That is a good point in terms of the the uh what your conveying yeah. Sometimes it says, per.

H

The regular dog body on some signs you see per, but it still would be confusing. I guess.

J

huh Yeah we could remove both portsmouth and conservation. Commission. I don't know.

C

Or yeah one of the other I mean or well let me keep you nice and clean and simple. I think.

I

It's gonna be pretty small, I don't know yeah, we clean it up too. If we.

I

Took out those two lines, would you make protected wetland area the same.

B

Or bigger, I guess you could make that as big as do not disturb yeah.

F

I would be in support of that too yeah. Okay, I didn't think of that blend with the city.

B

Of portsmouth, like you, don't own it but like it, makes sense now that you say it yeah, it's.

H

A good point yeah, it's really just a regulation, it's not about ownership, so.

H

And really the messages do not disturb or cut so you could uh reverse the conservation commission.

D

And protected wetland area say, protect the wetland area and then conservation, commission down below.

C

Or do we want to? I like the idea of having it bigger sort of the protected wetland area, because.

C

It kind of emphasizes why you're not supposed to disturb or cut yep. Does that mean yeah so get, but.

B

Would you get rid of the city of portsmouth and the conservation, commissionary parts yeah and then.

B

Just make protected wetland areas as big, as can be just, although that make sure they're still like.

B

A space then, between the do not disturb or cut.

H

Okay, did you um when you talk to exeter, I do see their signs, do they? What do they have on there? I.

M

Didn't see their science, but that's a good point. One we saw was a different municipality. It was in.

H

Massachusetts but it had the town's name on it, but was that further protected areas, or was it because.

H

That's a we didn't yeah rally. Massachusetts had, I think, protected wetland area and then there.

M

Was one called the town? It said something on the bottom that said, town of southington.

M

um And then it stated what department I think it was their public works department, so.

M

There's a couple ways: some people have like absolutely nothing that states their town or.

M

Anything like that and just has the phrase, do not disturb or cut or protected so and so so.

M

um I think people go either way, but it is, I think, it's nicer to have it more simplified. Maybe we.

M

Don't need the city of portsmouth conservation. What if you did um took out city of and put.

C

Portsmouth sort of like what ted was talking about, but just portsmouth protected wetland area.

C

Or something I don't know if it would fit, and it could be a little bit bigger yeah. It should.

C

Probably fit um if you took out conservation commission, not that I don't want you, but.

C

um You can just have portsmouth protected wetland area because then it's not like city of portsmouth.

C

But it's the location and if you want that recognition, um I don't know I mean if anybody.

C

Michael, my so if someone saw this sign say it's a new property owner so say a previous property.

B

Owner put those up because they had a application, and now it's a new owner and they're like okay,.

B

Well, what can I, what can I do in this area and but there's nothing on the thing that says like who to.

B

Talk to or see I don't that's why I thought the conservation commission maybe would be.

B

Good on there, oh okay, then they know they're like okay. This is why I have to talk to to.

B

Figure out what the rules are, yep got it. Sometimes you see, like uh you know, like.

I

The the number that goes with the ordinance- oh, like the rsa yeah yeah, I mean I mean that- would.

B

At least tell them where to go, try to find something, but I don't know if that's what we.

C

No, that makes sense, I don't know, I I mean.

C

I feel back and forth physically in times bro.

F

Who picked the red wing blackbird? Is that uk sorry we'll pick the red wing.

M

Blackbird, I think they picked that yeah just curious. We showed him one that was similar.

H

Yeah we showed them when we liked and they picked whatever fit. I like it, though I mean.

C

Get settled on this yeah. What if we just got rid of city of portsmouth and just kept the.

B

Conservation, commission, I mean people would know we're in portsmouth and that it was. I.

D

Agree with that, I just reverse conservation, commission and protected wetland areas such.

D

As protective wetland area and then says yeah because conservation commission doesn't need.

B

To be that big yeah yeah and it can just yeah smaller, you know, and the protective.

D

Wetland area could be a little bit larger because that's the most important aspect: okay,.

H

Yeah, it's probably nice to leave, leave the commissions in there a little bit and that.

H

They know who to contact yes yeah, so we won't just make it smaller yeah. We want conservation.

M

Commission on the outside bottom yeah yeah that will and make it smaller and then get rid of.

B

City of portsmouth yeah make protective wetland area the a little bit larger a little bit bigger.

H

Okay, reduce the conservation commission, size that'll work. Do we want to put the rs or the the.

M

Number of the ordinance, or is that too much contact conservation commission, but.

B

Yeah yeah, but I don't know they need to. I think it's pretty awesome. They would know it.

C

Would take a lot more space aren't to figure more unproofable world, though I know it's. Okay, great.

F

Thanks kate, thank you no problem. Thank you. Yeah.

B

um I had one other thing in other business but before I say that does.

B

Anyone else have anything I have one other thing too well, just to get back ted had asked about. You know at the last um uh sustainable lawn care.

H

Or sustainable planning community subcommittee um we had talked about you know working on some web.

H

And web content and I talked to public works and the webmaster and there shouldn't be any.

H

Issue it depends on whether we're adding web content to our site or whether we're linking.

H

To another site either way we should be able to figure it out, so I think go ahead with it.

H

I talked to cora in a public works and they do. You know organic land care he'd be happy.

H

To talk to the commission about what they do or have max, who also works with him, talk to us.

H

And he said they could also talk to us about the tree planting effort. They have going on 400.

H

Trees reports from 400, so oh, it's impressive, and if you look at some of the trees that.

D

They're, getting you know like flowering, dogwood, nice trees, yeah, nice trees, yeah, not cheap ones,.

H

And that the way they're planting them is bare root style, they're, a lot cheaper, but they're able.

H

To plant them and haven't survive really well so at least that's the thought. Those guys know their.

H

Stuff yeah, they know what they're doing they're all nofa certified by the way. There's four of us.

C

um I did have an other yeah go ahead. um Did any of us want to sign on to ted's, um seeing them in the.

C

Minutes reminding me his um with cips or whatever um that, or are we just leaving that as he's doing.

C

That, or did as a conservation commission do anybody want to do? We want to endorse that or.

C

Not I was kind of curious barbara's speaking at something right. Yeah we've got one we've proposed.

D

The commission proposed a half a million dollars, you know for land conservation and my plan was a.

D

Year ago we proposed a million, you know, um but it didn't make it through the process, but it is.

D

A citizen, you know you could submit requests, we didn't have really a chance and I I would.

D

Recommend that next year we have a broader conversation about the cip and things that.

D

We as a commission might want to recommend you know, because there are a lot of things that you.

D

Can recommend so I had four that came up one from my discussions with peter rice about a deep time.

D

Aerator that you know I was telling me, you don't aerate the grounds hard as a rock in any of our.

D

Parks- and he said it's a question of resources and recommended that you know if we could get.

D

A grant or something like that I said well, but maybe they didn't have the money and it's off.

D

So that was one there's one about trying to put away. I said one percent of the budget.

D

Based upon what they do in massachusetts, they have 188 communities out of 351 in massachusetts,.

D

Participate in the same program you can set aside either one percent or two percent of your property.

D

Taxes in one year and then it goes into a fund, you know so you raise it once, but that's it and the.

D

Money goes into a fund for recreation, for historic preservation or land conservation. You could use.

D

It for any of those things, so it's we're a lot of effort into it. You know, and so the other thing is.

D

They haven't, they have. Moreover, europe and they've got a little one in dover uh to steam machine to.

D

Kill the weeds, you know on the brick sidewalks and everything they have some that are, you know.

D

Really fancy you know, so I would recommend that next year we have a broader discussion uh at the.

D

Beginning of the cip process, because I'm sure we all have ideas what happened. That'd be really good.

D

If the city did that, you know yeah yeah, I think it might be a little late this year, but it makes.

H

Sense to do it if you start early yeah I mean I'm gonna, go there I'll go to the planning board.

D

And go to the council and say you know: please support this or write them or I'll. Do something.

B

Sure um the last thing I have is at the last organic land care subcommittee meeting. I was.

B

Just working on ordinance changes just very broad ordinance changes for what we have purview over.

B

um And I didn't get a chance to send it out to everyone to look at. Oh did I send it? How did you.

B

Get it did I send it to you. I think I got it at the last meeting. Oh yeah, kate printed it out for.

B

Some people yeah okay, anyways- um that wasn't the place where we were going to discuss it. So I was.

B

Wondering if we wanted to create a subcommittee to discuss that, if anyone was interested in looking.

B

At those or at least had ideas and wanted to send them to me to kind of put in and go from there.

B

I don't know: do you want to talk about how that would kind of go forward so that I mean.

H

If you set up a subcommittee, you could come up with some recommendations. I think um you don't.

H

Necessarily have to flush them out completely so their ordinances, but really it's the concepts you.

H

Want, okay, and so, if the commission wanted to look at what we have in our ordinance and how we'd like.

H

The ordinance to be changed the process would be to go to the land use committee, that is a council.

H

And staff from planning department and I think, a couple other members that would then talk about it.

H

You want you kind of want to get the city council support at the beginning, because they're the ones.

H

Who are going to at the end adopt it so if they get the council support through that process,.

H

I think it would, it would probably either go there and then go to the city council and then, if they.

H

Recommend developing an ordinance, then the ordinance would be written.

H

By the planning department or some what this was some assistance possible even.

H

From a contractor, depending on how far along it is, and then that would go back.

H

To either the land use committee and then the planning board or right to the planning.

H

Board who would review it and then they make a recommendation to the city council, so it's kind of a long process, but um it really starts with what ideas do you have in mind because.

H

The planning board and this land use committee won't know how to change the conservation so.

H

If you said to them, we'd like to create a 150 foot buffer or whatever the example might be, it doesn't.

H

Have to be in this section of the ordinance we wanted to read this way as much as what's the idea.

H

You know so it's not as much the nitty-gritty of developing the ordinance it's let's take a.

H

Bigger picture step back and look at our ordinance. What do we think we should? We want the results.

C

And like that, we have exemptions for this, and we have you know septic rules, different things that.

H

All could be considered and then in the land use committee review process and in the development.

H

Of the ordinance they look at what's allowed by statute, and that kind of thing and- and you know.

H

What a lot of wetlands regulations seem to work in the state of under.

H

Innovative land use controls at the state level and that basically says that you.

H

Can adopt wetland regulations stricter than the state but not less stripped so.

H

um It's pretty wide open, I think in terms of wetlands, if you want to take it out into.

H

Wildlife and things like that, then you'd have to probably do a little research on what would be.

H

Permitted and what wouldn't, but there's probably things you could do there too? Is it a subcommittee.

F

Each have to be involved to be considered a subcommittee. I think one [laughter].

H

I mean you know it could be people outside the conservation too, but um or it could be. A committee.

H

Of the whole, so it's it's really up to you guys. I don't think I suppose it'd be better. If you had a.

H

Few members, if one member just has recommendations, and they want to run them by other members,.

H

That would be sort of them. You know, like sam, took the initiative already. If she has ideas she wants.

H

To run by us, if they're, if they're vetted and complete, then we could send it. The commission.

H

Could send a memo to the land use committee and say this is what we have been working on? How do.

H

We bring this to you kind of thing I can't eat, I get so confused with quorum and like the raffles.

C

Yeah so like so, we should. Can I email out my draft to everyone and ask for them to comment.

B

Back, that's where I, I think, if you want comments back, that's where the subcommittee comes in so.

H

We've set up a meeting because you don't probably don't have time to do it in a conservation country.

H

Meeting, although you know you could discuss those edits and discuss the edits, because you.

H

Can't really do that by email right, that's kind of conductive reason. That's conducting business.

H

So, okay, you need to set up a way to conduct business, whether it's at a regular meeting or a.

H

A special meeting which doesn't have to be a subcommittee, it could just be a special meeting.

H

That we've set up for you, okay, it just has to be advertised so that people know there's a meeting.

H

Do people have to be here in person for the actual meeting, or can it be everyone be on zoom? um That's.

H

A good question I don't know it would be helpful. You want to just have a remote meeting to talk.

B

About that would be great, I think, okay, at least for me. I know I don't know what the statutory, if.

H

It's only things that are spelled out in statute that need to have forums in public or if it's any.

H

Public body, so that's what I gotta look at okay, because if we're just like throwing ideas around.

B

Because if you say we don't have to have full fleshed out statutes and we're just throwing ideas.

B

Around and kind of figuring out, which ones we want to pursue right, then what are the rules on that.

B

Can we do it over zoom for everybody.

H

I will look into that. Yes, barbara.

E

I just was going to say I totally support either a special meeting or a subcommittee either way.

E

I think mine keeps breaking up so it might might have to get off. So, oh that's all I have so. Okay.

I

I'm done sustainable, mk group getting together again. How did we leave? I missed the last minute.

I

uh When was that next meeting? Is that the end of the month is that when they usually.

H

Meet the 20 okay: do you remember the date of the sustainable land care meeting next meeting.

H

The last wednesday.

H

The 30th, the 30th, is the last ones. If this is november.

H

Is that november yeah? Is it the last wednesday, then? Is it the 30th? It's always the last wednesday.

H

All right: well, that's right before thanksgiving, that's a great actor! That's right! [Laughter].

D

Not uh language and start to fill in the website and stuff like that, there's not that much to talk.

D

About until we have real come, you know so, will you tell me and I'll we can send an announcement when.

D

To have the next one: well, we get some content and stuff like that. Then we can maybe postpone.

B

To december, or anywhere in the new year, yeah, maybe the new year yeah it's going to be january because.

H

December is going to be going to be new year's all right, so not and the 30th is that weird, no.

B

It sounds like not on the 30th and maybe not in december hi hi. I I just wanted to know if I.

N

Could introduce up from the sanitary committee, and I just want you if you want to talk in the.

H

Regular meeting would you please come up soon. Yeah, sorry, sorry, we didn't give it a shot. That's okay!.

N

That's okay! No! My name is susan starry and I'm co-chair of the historic cemetery committee, which.

N

I don't know if you're all familiar we've been in process now for a year old, big learning curve.

N

um We just got our first grant, which entails repairing, I call it the sea wall, it's retaining.

N

Wall at union and north cemetery, uh which you know, goes up against north mill pond, so peter was kind.

N

Enough to tell me part of the permitting process, probably would be you know, going presenting to.

N

The conservation commission, not me but part of it, so I just wanted to introduce the committee.

N

um We that's our first grant yay and so um there's two parts to that and then there'll be another one.

N

We're investigating, what's going on at point of graves, the stonewall down there, the city.

N

Council had asked us to look into it because they have a very active friends of south and.

N

um So right now we are going to have testing don and peter rice is taking.

N

Care of all of that, so hopefully you know we'll be able to rebuild a wall.

N

Down there, and that too would come in front of you. You know eventually, so I.

N

Came today because I wanted to see how, like I said, 101 learning of the city government.

N

um How how you guys operate in the procedures and all of that so and again introduce us so and we.

N

Have the same problem, we ended up four o'clock on the second or the first thursday of every month.

N

And that seemed to fit in with everybody on the committee getting there and stuff like that so and.

N

We have the same questions about zoom too, which we got the same answers that hopefully going forward.

N

The state will change their their outlook on you know to get your quorums because lots of times.

N

We don't have quorum either, but that's more than what I came here to tell you so again. I just want.

N

To introduce and let you know hopefully, you'll see us at least three times anyway, so thank you. Thank.

B

You that's really really appreciate that yeah have a good day. Everyone was like you and just.

I

Just to sort of put it out there I mean you know you, we do work sessions with with folks, which is.

I

Kind of like a pre-application thing where we could kind of or even a site, walk right.

F

um Like I don't know, you might consider kind of tapping us early in the process.

N

Absolutely suzanne woodlands are uh as our liaison and we haven't gotten that far yet I you know.

N

As I said, we were learning and thanks to peter, because I was talking to him about point of grace.

N

Said eventually, if we get the money, then we this would be part of the permitting. So we won't know.

N

Technically, we won't be accepted until january, so after that I guess then the process suzanne will.

N

Let us know how the process goes or peter because I think goes to peter rice at that point. So.

N

um But thank you for sharing that because I I sort of gathered that I think and seawalls are tricky.

I

Yeah, the rules have kind of changed a little bit and they're yeah they're gonna be expected.

I

To do sort of a nature-based kind of thing, and I told her that out in the field yeah.

N

That's part, the first part is replace not replacing is repairing a stone wall.

N

That already exists. It's the second part. That's gonna, be trickier, because there's.

N

Also, erosion involved from runoff from the railroad and the salt pot nut cell pile.

N

But mahoney's and things like that so yeah people right so um and that's going to be.

N

Way more difficult, because there may actually be issues about how far back the cemetery actually.

N

Went and there's erosion there already, so it could get really complicated. As I found out.

N

um About other projects, so, but I just wanted to sort of meet you all you know know who you are and.

N

You can know when you hear cemetery committee who we are so. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Is that all right meetings adjourned excellent well done sam some things.