City of Portsmouth, New Hampshire Economic Development Commission, 3 Mar 2023

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3.3.2023 Economic Development Commission

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Let us get our meeting started.

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Chairman cohen, andy ward, never had eaten, will not be here today, joe kelly, your sister mayor kelly,.

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Is running a few minutes behind she'll be here shortly? I know a number of people need to leave.

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Right at nine or before so, let's do our best to move smartly through the agenda. If we could please.

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A bit so welcome everyone to the uh what is today's date march 3rd meeting of the.

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Economic development, commission and if anyone is joining us by uh zoom,.

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uh Which I don't think we'll just leave that open in case there's some questions.

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So first order of businesses always is approval of the meeting minutes from our february 3rd meeting.

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We have a motion for acceptance so move. I have a second.

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Okay, is there any discussion, corrections or edits.

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All in favor aye any opposed.

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All right, some working group um updates uh first, is, if you recall from our last uh our last edc,.

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Meeting um a group appealed in from our I'm sorry from our retreat uh we're going to take a look at.

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Our charter and mission and review and recommend some language um uh tom: do you want to give an.

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Update since you started the draft circulating sure, so uh the working group associated with.

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This got together had a long meeting, after which, or as part of which we decided that we would do.

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Two things or two steps in this process: one was to look at the current ordinance dealing with the.

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Edc and and consider whether rewarding it in some way would be appropriate and then second.

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After we finish that to look at creating sort of principles that would guide us, as we looked at.

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The issues we faced so, in fact we we did spend some time discussing the ordinance in a draft.

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uh Revised after that, ordinance has been circulated in the subcommittee, but we did not have.

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A chance since that meeting, which was about two and a half weeks ago, to get back together again so.

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I anticipate that we will do that between now and the april meeting and something for you to look at.

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Anyone on the subcommittee anything to add to that.

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Very good, is there any update from the data group I mean. Obviously phil phil is not here yet also.

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But I imagine we'll meet between this and next meeting and come back something within april a.

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Little more good, thank you and uh bob land use committee liaison. uh Well, I can update you or.

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Kelly can tell you that we haven't met.

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We're meeting usually meet today, yes, but we're meeting next friday.

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So next meeting we should have an update, yeah.

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Okay, moving right along. um Yes, I will add, please that I did speak with sean and.

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Will be uh immediate, the bre subcommunity meeting will be uh subcommittee will be meeting probably.

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In a couple weeks, to figure out what we're going to do for next year and the next survey, and that.

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Kind of thing, so it's kind of creeping up on us. I think we haven't met for a few months. That's true.

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Very good all right, update from the office of 27 bullets. So uh first thing I just want.

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To let this group know if you haven't heard um since since the earlier in this year, I've.

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Taken responsibility for a community develop in a development. In addition to my economic.

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Development responsibilities, if you want to know more about that, I'm still learning but.

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It's primarily overseeing our efforts to spend cdbg dollars. Community development block grant.

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And a couple of things that are that are happening just to let you know a flavor of it. One is there's.

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um Some water and sewer improvements for the woodbury avenue cooperative anybody know what.

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That is yeah. I saw that sign yeah. So that's that's uh was kind of stalled, but it's.

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We've got some dollars appropriated for that, and, secondly, is um also water and sewer lines for the.

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Operation blessing warming center. So a couple of big things that the group here was working to make.

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Sure we could spend those dollars that we received from the federal government. So what do we have in.

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That fund, you know, I think it's in the range of it. I don't even know there was oh absolutely 500.

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000 yeah right we get a yearly allocation and then we have some ability to spend program, income.

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Which is money that gets returned to us, but the challenge with or the opportunity of cdbg is it.

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Has to be spent on identifiably, low and moderate income populations? Okay, so the challenge is.

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Proving that eligibility and it gets paid back, doesn't it sometimes it does sometimes they're.

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Outright grants sometimes they're loans, okay, which is why we sometimes have program income.

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To deal with, there's the one on woodbury avenue a loan or a grant. You know, I think it's a grant.

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To subsidize down the amount of the loan they're getting from right, federal home loan bank, you know.

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Because they have a much larger number so we're trying to keep help them with their debt load.

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S: okay: um we have the economic forecast next tuesday morning that was rescheduled from.

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This tuesday morning, I'll be speaking at that thanks ben uh as well as phil. I hope I hope.

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The regional workforce development effort is close to launch. I have a handout which I'll leave with.

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You, but I think I've mentioned this, where the regional economic development folks have engaged.

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A a marketing firm here in portsmouth to work with employers and work with them on attracting.

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Talent kind of best practices, developing talent and retaining talent, and it's really all around.

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Workforce, that was the focus and those that's using twenty thousand dollars from the capture.

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Business of econo economic affairs, so they gave us those dollars and we're going to spend them wisely.

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The economic database, economic development database contract.

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Is working its way through city hall? I'll have definitely have an update on that for in april.

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We've got some heavy construction and disruption coming to commercial alley and and market street.

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Starting in mid-april going through, hopefully only mid, may we had a meeting at commercial.

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Alley last week we have a public meeting next week for the market street folks, that's next.

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Thursday, at four o'clock, if you want to know more about that or sit in, feel free, but that's going.

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To be, hopefully, some positive discussion can I add to that sean sure. It's all the utilities in.

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The area, so it's ever source you and to tell uh consolidated communications, comcast and us.

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Right, correct right, it's really it's! Yes, it's great, primarily utility work, yeah um upgrades.

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That need, and then I guess, the sewer line that we need to that. That's the us yeah, that's the us yeah.

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Dig once get it all done, that's that's the plan. How long is that project anticipated to take.

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Five weeks is what we're saying the unknown is. The start date is that weather, wise or or organization.

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Originally was scheduled for april 17th, but the goal is: if we can start on april 10th, we will.

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I think the other key to mention in case people are listening and watching this meeting later is.

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That there will always be access for residents and businesses, it will always be buttoned up.

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At night and when we get to the work for sure in market street, the work will stop friday afternoons.

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And stop through the weekend right: no, no interruption on the weekends! I'm sorry! I've been.

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I've been any other questions about that. The scope of that work like when we were.

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Just upgrading all of the utilities in that area, including sewer yeah, there was a press.

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Release it's it's multiple utilities, I'm not going to be able to recall them, but it's and.

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It's work that because the question was asked the city council did we have to do this? Can we wait.

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The answer was we really shouldn't because some of the things are breaking down. If you look at, we.

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Have the sinkhole on market square that was that was on us um and and the electricity really the.

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Electric capabilities for, for the commercial, only folks, a couple things that are going to.

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Happen a tree is going to go away and then and a pole, an electric pole that holds wire.

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So it's to get underground to get everything put back and replace commercial ollie to its.

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Beautiful so the utilities will be underground or down commercial rally. Yes, it's good. It's good.

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Okay um and then islington street, I guess the next phase is starting up. They have a meeting.

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On my calendar for that next week, as well, so really just trying to be out there uh side by.

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Side with dpw to talk to the businesses and make sure we address their concerns.

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Let me jump in on that segment of islington. It was hoped it would be all the way to the.

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Square, it's not it's from where the project left off, which I believe is dover street.

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Through cornwall, which is the other, the close side of goodwin park by lexi's, give or take.

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In the last the last update is uh see so there's a subgroup has been planned. That.

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Has been put together to address a cultural plan, if you recall that's at least 20 years.

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Old, our cultural plan, so that's part of the arts and nonprofit committee and they have a.

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Very aggressive timeline to have that done by the end of the year. And I just say that, because I am.

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Their liaison and trying to help them stand up and get that going, and that will be a obviously.

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A nice tool that we want to be aware of from an economic development standpoint and that cultural.

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Plan will is intended to inform the master plan, which will be which will be started next year.

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So I I'll have access to stuff. If you have any questions, just let me know.

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That's what I have I just want to do what I do want to announce. It's my 12th edc meeting.

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You have yet to gnaw, through the ropes holding your place right.

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Pretty good any other questions, any questions for sean.

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One question sean: is there a potential role for the edc in this cultural plan, or I would think so.

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Something that just will run parallel while we're doing they're still they're still outlining the.

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Scope of work- and I know they're going to the goal- is to engage a consultant. So I would imagine, as a.

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Stakeholder, we, we should be, the business community will be involved. I don't know if there's a formal.

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Role, but you know maybe I'll maybe we'll see one let's get addressed but as it goes along, if there.

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Is uh yeah an opportunity we should weigh in if we can yeah there's I mean there's a reason. There's.

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Three arts committees that I'm supporting, because it's such a big part of our of our economy and.

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Community so, but there's some natural connections that I could certainly bring to this group.

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Tim update from the chamber collaborative please yes, good morning, everybody uh just a few updates.

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From the chamber side of things, as sean mentioned, the economic outlook was rescheduled from tuesday.

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Due to the weather, to next tuesday, we had to change venues, which is like the third time.

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We've changed venues for this event, but that's okay, so we're about great bay community college.

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Next, tuesday morning the 7th from 8 30 to 9 30 in the morning uh we'll have jeff feingold from.

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New hampshire business review, uh sean and phil here and who else is joining us? Yes been from.

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Well, ben, yes, a national perspective ben from uh first citizens bank, which is the cit group that.

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um Is headquartered here in portsmouth um also later this month is the tourism summit on the 27th.

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Of this month, um we'll have an announcement going out to the tourism industry today about that, but.

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The 27th that's a monday morning um is our annual gathering of the tourism community. So all our.

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Retailers, our attractions historic sites, hoteliers restaurant tours, although that's very early in the.

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Morning for restaurant tours, we don't get a lot of them, that'll be at the venue at portwalk place.

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It's a full morning kind of half day uh program that we put together for the tourism community.

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To have a little bit of information from how the state's doing their their tourism marketing.

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And how we um play into that locally and what our efforts are going to be at the chamber and.

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Then you usually do some sort of goal setting and brainstorming at the end of that session.

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uh You may want to just uh keep in mind that we are working very steadily on some.

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Our traditional spring events uh restaurant week is coming up april, 20th to the 29th.

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um Hit the decks uh we'll be right on the heels of that on may 11th, and then we have in partnership.

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With the edc and city, we are putting together an event with the sba in june on june, 6th.

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Would it be like a half day sort of entrepreneur summit if you will here in portsmouth with uh the.

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Regional ed sba, folks, too many accidents early in the morning last year. um We also um from the.

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Just kind of updated on the chamber side things I think I mentioned last time that we are in the.

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Process of doing strategic planning ourselves, it's been quite a number of years, since we've done that.

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um So we are in the final steps of hiring a a consultant to walk us through that process.

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So that process will hopefully get started here in the next. You know, four to six weeks.

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um And and we'll go through the summer and and likely wrap up early fall. So we're excited about.

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That and we're starting to do our our fiscal year 2024 summer to summer is our fiscal year.

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July to june so we're starting to do our fiscal year, 24 planning now one thing I did want to.

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Mention is uh at the request of uh really the the mayor. We had a great meeting yesterday.

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um With uh assistant mayor kelly and john and and several other ann was there as well uh to to.

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Having an early discussion, an initial discussion about some sort of retail initiative to to try.

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To bring more business to to our retail community members, we're thinking the early part of 2024 and.

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Those kind of slower months after valentine's day, we've sort of kind of came up with this idea of.

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Continue the love of our retailers from after valentine's day through end of march, so we're.

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Looking at you know a four or six week kind of event, where we we, you know, maybe work with parking.

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On some some different things there and some maybe some activities and maybe a festival or two thrown.

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In there to try to bring more people downtown in those kind of slower months for our retailers, so.

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We're gonna just have that one initial meeting yesterday, I think we're all very excited about.

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The opportunity that's a great partnership with the city and the chamber and the edc as part of.

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That through the edc, so uh we're gonna next steps for that, for us we'll be putting together a survey.

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uh For our retail community of like making sure that you know, is this the right time of year you.

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Know what do you think about events? You know what what's worked for you in the past get some input.

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From them uh and then we'll also have uh share a meeting time for them to come and and talk with us.

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About some ideas that we've kind of thrown on the whiteboard at this point- and uh we certainly want.

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It to be something they're excited about and proud of, and something that's going to be effective for.

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Them so that will be the next steps there to get some input and have an opportunity for for them to.

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Participate in that process, so that's where that's going. I think the edc can hopefully they're very.

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Engaged in that opportunity, I think that's a wonderful partnership that could uh you know.

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In the early stages of developing, so as soon as we know more I'll be happy to share uh more on that.

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And assistant mayor ken as well at our upcoming meetings. But I think uh ball's going down a good.

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Path at this point in time, so that's it for me just a quick plug on the tourism summit for those.

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Of you who have not attended, it's really a good way to listen to uh you know, just sort of the you.

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Know the the minutiae sometimes of what's going on not just from the state level, but also you know.

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Some of the roundtable discussions you know about what the you know, what the individual businesses.

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Are going through so I've always found it very, very helpful, and so if you have a chance to.

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To pop in, I think it's really worth attending it's a good session, usually very well attended.

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Thank you cool. Thank you ben all. Right next is our city council update, uh we'll see you uh female to.

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Lombardi, yes, um one of the interesting things, of course is, and then sean alluded to this too.

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Is the we've been working on the public art um funding and whereas uh some, where public art was.

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Not used, for example, at the uh at the sewage treatment plant we've been able to designate.

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Those funds to be used elsewhere, things like that also, just I don't know who did everyone.

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Get to the thing last night, where they announced the the sculpture for the belgianco gateway park.

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uh It's really beautiful, I don't know if you've everyone's seen that, but so that's really good.

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We've been continuing to bring staff salaries up to make them competitive. Perhaps so we don't.

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Lose employees, I think the um the the police department is still struggling with the hiring.

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And keeping the I'm losing the name of what what they do dispatch. That's it the dispatchers, which.

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Is a pretty important piece um they've been depending on county dispatchers, but that is.

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That's a step away from portsmouth and creates actually a little delay in response to that.

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um We're hoping that this can help all that, as well as other areas in the city where people have.

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uh Are not really up to speed on on their wages.

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um We did increase the elderly and veterans tax credits as well as the access to them through.

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What their income and resources- and that brings us again up to speed with something like that. So.

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um We've also our budgeting, our budget is coming up and our cip and um we agreed to increase our.

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Budget by 4.5 percent um this year to accommodate the inflation and increased.

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Needs for money for by everybody so and then the last thing I'll mention is the.

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Community power we've approved joining the community power group so that it's.

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um It will be a good thing for the city. It'll save a lot of people, a lot of money for that.

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um The the um you, probably everyone, probably is aware of the uh the outdoor dining and how we've.

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Been struggling with that- and I I know this is the assistant mayor- is going to talk about that.

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In the next item, and then I guess I would ask the city manager to maybe give an update on mcintyre.

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So we are in about the 45 day window uh note or pat where, where we've had I'm like, I'm waking.

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Up, can you tell um we are in the middle of a 90-day extension with the general services.

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Administration we've had two check-ins with them the end of january and then february.

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They understand where we're at in terms of trying to wrestle to the ground the cost.

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Of construction, or the estimates thereof, and from that to derive a pro forma where we can.

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Understand allocation of costs between the city and the developer so um because of the.

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Threat of litigation with our development partner, that's that would explain why things are um as as.

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Managed as they are in terms of messaging, so what we're trying to do is understand where the numbers.

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Lie so that we can explain to the public what it is, our role might be so we're getting very.

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Close to that, our deadline for figuring all this out is march 31st and we had to put a.

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Milestone chart together for the gsa and we are staying on track with regard to that milestone.

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Chart that we created so that's the update I have for now.

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Any questions for our city council, reps for the city manager on the.

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The power yeah, I noticed a letter to the editor the other day about the opt-in versus no right.

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What is the do? You know the situation. The way it's working is that anyone who is signed up.

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With eversource for power will automatically be opt-in, um they can opt out um if they want.

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But um that's uh I'm not sure why anyone would because it's going to save them money, but.

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um They people have that option to do what, if you already have a third party.

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Man, you already have a third party as I do, um you will have to opt into it. Okay,.

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Thank you. I would add that we have our final cip.

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um At the march 6th meeting, and so if there's any residents that want to have a say in that or.

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um Have any questions about that? uh We will be voting on that on our march 6th meeting. So I.

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Think that's important and I also think it's important to expand on the 4.5 percent was.

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Emotion made by councilor tabor, and it is it's not uncommon for city councils to give kind of a.

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Ceiling recommendation to the city manager, so that 4.5 was a guidance or guideline for her and her.

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Staff to look at when, when they're, when they're submitting their budgets for the next fiscal year,.

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If I can just make that round out that whole thought, the cip that would be adopted on monday.

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Is really numbers and a plan they're not dollars, yet until the dollars that are rolled in from the.

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Cip to the budget get adopted in june, so it's a way to advance projects and to consider them both.

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In the immediate and longer term, but no money will be allocated as a result of monday's vote, so you.

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May see, there's a possibility to see items in the cip change between adoption monday and the um the.

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Ultimate budget adoption in june, it's always worth reminding people that it's not a finite point time.

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Another question uh on the power is that residential and commercial, or is it just yes,.

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And when do you anticipate um the publishing what the expected rate.

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Would be and what the period would be but like well, it's it's! The coalition.

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um Trying to remember speak to that. If you like, okay, there are some early adopters hitting the.

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Market, if you will, in april or thereabouts, we would be on the june track at this rate and people.

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Will know that ever at twice a year rates are set. So if we jump on in the june time frame, we will.

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Enjoy the rates that were set january february that run through august and then in august.

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Everybody who gets power will have a rate reset, so we'll have that conversation again, but we'll.

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um I think it'll impact the july bill if we jump in in june. Okay. So that's a little different from.

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Some of the third party contracts that you know that are sometimes multiple year lock-ins. We think.

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There's some benefit in being a fast follower to the early adopters. The people who jump in in april.

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We'll see what that's like and uh we'll be able to message in a way that they've been messaging and.

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We think it'll be optimal great, any other questions uh just to sort of a comment.

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uh We used to well not used to it's probably been several years now when we got an update.

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um On construction projects within the city and sort of timeline of what was going on and.

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I thought that was interesting. I can't remember who gave the presentation, but.

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um It would be great to hear from peter rice's staff and yeah and dave defosis, who everybody.

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Knows is the guy on the street for the project, so once we have that mapped out which should be.

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Either now or very soon that could be an agenda item for sure, okay, great yeah.

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That's a great that's, a great idea that used to happen. I think yearly.

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Yeah, I don't know if we used to do it yearly. It was maybe pre-covered like everything yeah.

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The simpler times, but it's a great it's a great thought, any other last comments. Okay, so let's.

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Let's move on um yes mayor kelly uh dc review. I threw a zinger out there, lateral arabesque, yeah.

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um So, as you all know, and as many people in the community know we're looking at trying.

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To figure out the long-term ordinance and viability um for outdoor dining and.

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There wasn't um counselor cook and counselor bagley have kind of been heading up trying to.

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Write the policies uh write the policy um and there was kind of a little back.

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And forth about fees and- and things like that, and so I thought it would be a great.

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um Thing as we've talked about at a retreat, we were looking for some guidance for some things.

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To touch on and work on from the city council, so I um they're in the meeting recommended that we.

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Maybe send this to the edc, as we are good business resident liaison crossover for us to work on some.

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Recommendations for an ordinance there is no rush on this. We, the city, has adopted um an outdoor.

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Policy for this this season we went back to last year's policy, um except with the amendments of the.

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Date, so this year will be uh may may 1 correct, may 1 the indigenous people's day and then we.

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um Based on community feedback, this was something we're going to do go through for this year. Any.

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Street with high traffic flow, where it reverses direction essentially closing down the street, we.

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Will not be be doing, but so really this group has, you know nine-ish months eightish months.

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To work on some recommendations for a long-term ordinance for us to be be presented at console.

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So we're not working from scratch, we do have a good, um a good set of bones to go through and.

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I'll make sure that that policy that we currently use in previous policies that have been currently.

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Used or that have been used in the past get sent to this group, so maybe whether we we can decide at.

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Some point whether we want this to be a working group, or we want this to be a all edc project.

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I would, I would add that um currently, this is operated through a policy and.

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um So our I think our goal is to actually move this to an ordinance level so that it becomes.

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A little more comprehensive and um withstands doesn't have to be looked at every year. Basically,.

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Tom and then jacob um your comment, vince about being comprehensive.

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Raised a question because when listening to that they're watching that city council meeting at.

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Least one of the counselors- I can't remember whom mentioned encompassing retail use of the sidewalks.

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As well so will this be limited to just outdoor dining, or will it be a larger policy dealing with.

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Other businesses use of sidewalks, so currently we do have the side work, encumbrance policy so.

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If you are putting a-frame out, if you're putting a clothing rack out, you know there is a policy, but.

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That's definitely something we can look at if we want to build that verbiage into the policy.

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um Obviously, when we, when we talk long term, we do have you know, market square master plan coming up.

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In in a city master plan, and so I think that I would also you know, voice that this group should.

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Very much be part of that, as we look at kind of the business impacts of wider sidewalks and and.

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Maybe pull and pull in parking, and things like that, um so I would say it's not off the table.

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um Kind of, but I mean this group can kind of figure out the scope of of recommendations that we.

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Would bring forward but again I think I think um what has happened when that discussion happens.

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Is that um you know there's so many policies that I think sometimes people forget certain policies.

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Are already already in line, um and this this will really focus, in my view, to the to the um a lot on.

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The on street dining and because again we already have some policies. We have a sidewalk cafe policy.

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So if you are not serving alcohol, we have a, we have the sidewalk encumbrance, so just tables.

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Outside there there's several different policies that kind of have been patched work together.

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um Or I would hope that we can kind of patch work together to have you know one kind of.

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Umbrella ordinance so that again, every year it's not a what falls under what who falls under this.

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Yeah, well I understand, but I'm just trying to are you saying? Basically, the edc can define the.

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Scope of its review and recommendations or part of the reason I say that because I think personally.

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The the use of the of parking spaces and, and not just the encumbrance ordinance, that's been.

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In existence since 2012, but you know the the thing that we've had since 2020 um implicates retailers.

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um It's apropos of ben suggesting and we're going to have some type of a retail.

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Initiative and this time next year, uh I I just think that if you, if you limit it to.

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To outdoor dining, you're, you're you're kind of missing the larger question, is you know what do.

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You want to have for a policy as far as allowing businesses to have outdoor economic activity.

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I mean my personal opinion and I've voiced this the whole the whole time that it's, if a retailer.

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Wanted to pay the same price that a restaurant was paying to lease out that parking spot for.

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The season I would be 100, okay, with that. um I know that some people- I don't think necessarily agree.

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With that, um so I guess given the scope and we can kind of define the scope, I can work with the.

J

City manager, to define the scope a little bit more, but um I would say the scope would be just outdoor.

J

Dining or outside outdoor use or use of city or city parking spaces, and we can kind of define that.

J

A little bit more, I would jump in to say if it were the will of the edc, to advise the council on.

F

Economic activity, other than dining, I think that's in the purview of what the council would want to.

F

See because ultimately, the edc won't be making any decisions. It'll be one big set of recommendations.

F

So I think, if that were something to add to the set of recommendations, I think that would.

F

Be jermaine that that would be my perspective and we can talk about whether the food truck should be.

B

Part of that policy, that's another conversation department. You had a comment. I um council, the.

C

First part of my question on scope, but also kind of trying to figure out what exactly needs to be.

C

Answered so we'll be giving the provisions here. Are we looking at it from the scope of like hey.

C

If all the businesses are like yep, this is good. They made money from it. They profited from it. Then.

C

You know, then we should be good or are we looking for a more holistic approach where we say oh well,.

C

We've taken to a lot of things into you know to account, like you know, community feedback, all that.

C

Stuff, are we just looking at it from one point of view, because we are the business kind of liaison.

C

Here are we going to the business and asking them like you know it was this profitable for you.

C

Because, for my, you know point of view it's like: if they had a profitable year, um then you know it's.

C

A it's, it could be a net positive on downtown. So I'm trying to understand like the scope and also.

C

Like the outcome of those recommendations on provisions yeah well, I think, uh naturally, with.

J

This type of program, you're, always looking for, has holistic overall benefit an impact on the.

J

Community one other thing that was very clear is that residents enjoyed and want the continuation.

J

Of outdoor dining um again, I I view is that kind of this is that we already have policy.

J

um That has kind of been a moving target and adjusted year to year and so bringing that policy.

J

And figuring out is, are we covering all our bases? Are we um for for me personally, the impact as it.

J

Is definitely more looking at the more holistic picture versus the whether it was profitable or.

J

Non-Profitable or whether businesses have to do it or or not. I think that there's a community desire.

J

To keep it and and really part of the adjustments that you'll see from year to year to year is to.

J

Look at making it a long-term program, look at making sure it's accessible to everyone and.

J

That includes that means for me, mostly patriots, making sure that all patrons have accessibility.

J

To outdoor dining in that program, making sure that businesses that decide to opt in on that program.

J

um You know are that it's financially feasible for them that we're not that we're making sure.

J

That it, you know is, is aesthetically pleasing to some degree, but also making sure that it's not a.

J

Dramatic hindrance to some of the other businesses, and so I I personally view- and I think you know as.

J

We look through the charter review that the edc's role is not just business. It's it's. The balance.

J

Between resident and and business, and so that's why I feel like this was the right form to send.

J

It back to so is it accurate to say that coming to the uc, maybe it's looking at long-term provisions.

C

How to make this feasible going forward not like every year we have come fishing up every. You know.

J

Correct so the goal is to make an ordinance and then we we don't it's not something. We need to be.

J

That needs to be revisited every single year like a policy. Okay, all right and then sarah.

K

My head had this venn diagram in it, which I think I was shocked.

K

That there's, what's the best practices for people who visit downtown, whether it be.

K

Locals or tourists or people with disabilities what's best practice for those people and then.

K

There's what's the best practice for the businesses, all the businesses who operate.

K

Downtown and then what's the best practice for the city as far as safety revenue. All of that.

K

And and kind of it's, so that's your holistic. Look at the whole thing. It's not just! What's.

K

Best for the businesses, revenue stream, there's there's three things in play: there and kind of.

K

Seeing where that intersection is and the intersection is your policy, as I see it,.

G

To uh two questions, and one recommendation is our: is our goal to craft the policy or the ordinance.

G

Or give recommendations to be able to craft the policy ordinance to city council. Let me touch.

J

Base with with staff and then get back to see what they think is is the best route for that and what.

J

Is traditionally done, okay and then the second point is, we know things take a long time even.

G

Though we have like nine months until next year to figure this out, my recommendation is that if.

G

The edc wants to expand the scope beyond outdoor dining that we make a decision about that in the.

G

May time frame and then that gets brought back to the council to make sure that they're on board.

G

With our recommendation, so we're not spending our time crafting something beyond what we've been.

G

Asked to do does does that make sense to everybody I agree has. Has there been any I'm sorry easiest.

K

Time to understand how outdoor dining is operating is while outdoor dining is operating. So if we know.

K

What we're doing by may when it comes online, it's just so much easier to evaluate. I just don't want.

G

Us spending our time making broad recommendations when knowing we're tasked for outdoor dining. So.

B

Well, that's that's the reason. I ask a question, though, because the discussion at.

B

The city council meeting had somebody suggesting we needed to have a larger view of the issue, but.

G

And I don't mind spending time there. I just don't want to spend it if it's not asking yeah.

D

um I just had a question about the policy toward encroaching on city streets. I think you mentioned.

D

um Two-Way versus one-way, so two-way is you're not allowed. Is that it in the way you are yeah the.

F

Dining request reverses or detours traffic from the current traffic pattern. It will not be allowed.

G

Pleasant street, okay right so yeah yeah, which is different. But what about.

A

um In congress I mean this congress. What about congress? I was thinking power of that you know.

D

Didn't change directions? Please change lanes and I asked what the reasoning for that is.

C

Because there seems to only be two instances of that there are and we can talk about them. Let's.

C

Talk about that franklin and clipper tower right, so uh in both instances, businesses in.

F

Both sections were impacted and traffic people drove the wrong way and people did bad vehicular.

F

Behavior, so it it, but as ann I think you pointed out earlier this week, people are still being dopey.

F

About pleasant street, but they are, we don't need to encourage more bad behavior, so the the traffic.

F

Flow is the way it is for safety reasons and for circulation, so it further exacerbates both those.

F

Issues, so that's why those two would not happen again this year in the first two years, it was.

E

Allowed and then this year that's the difference for the policy this coming year is coming correct.

F

And if eric ebr transportation engineer were here, he'd be a lot more articulate but.

F

I think I hit the the broad point. It comes down to safety, essentially yeah exactly I was thinking.

D

Too about congress street and what you know it goes from three lanes down to two in the summer.

D

Because you've got restaurants encroaching on the road, um I was just wondering what the long-term.

D

Plan for that is, is that will be wrapped into that market square revisioning. Would that be.

D

To ultimately only have two lanes there, or at least study it and see what that does to.

F

Backing up the traffic and flow right? Okay, but I think it was councilor lombardi who asked for.

F

In the period where you're not doing outdoor dining, can you stripe it or can you effectually.

F

Use that left turn left lane should as a shoulder or so to speak. We're talking about.

F

That, internally now and eric eb doesn't seem to think it's problematic that, when outdoor dining.

F

And congress street is is realized and set up that the stretch from chestnut to the first.

F

Flower, outdoor dining, if it's flatbreads or goat, whoever that that could be temporary loading zone.

F

Pickup drop off sort of formalizing what people are doing now anyway, I would say we, those those.

J

Retailers there this was also partly a request from them. They they wrote it and said they in.

J

In that strip really enjoyed outdoor dining, it brought more foot traffic to them. In that.

J

They unofficially were able to use that as a quick load loading almost a you know, definitely loading.

J

Yes, but definitely a 15-minute pickup, drop-off location so outside of the street, because you're.

D

Yeah sidewalks are so narrow, yes, I'm sure they don't get as much traffic and as we know, you know.

J

That conversion there, that the staggered stop signs, there's always people not knowing where.

J

And then you know we merge from from two lanes to almost one lane. If you are, you know, next to the.

J

Anthony m and there's a bus, loading and people crossing, and then we go into three lanes and so.

J

Definitely getting a little bit clearer striping. I think the big one of the big factors for last year.

J

For the somewhat frustration at that intersection was also the change of the intersection. You know.

J

You know we we during covid lost the um diagonal crosswalks and we have delayed signals, and so I.

J

Think the combination which are actually safer, if you look, if you look at studies.

J

um I know some people don't necessarily agree with that, but the studies do show that they are.

J

More effective and you know lower in pedestrian and vehicle collisions, but so I think there were.

J

A combination of people getting used to not being able to turn whenever they wanted. Having.

J

To delay with the with the pedestrians and the combination of outdoor dining, so I think.

J

You know, after a couple seasons- hopefully this season, people will be more used to that. That.

J

Traffic pattern couldn't use the same argument for one-way streets, though after a few seasons, people.

C

Just understand not to go down those one-way streets, I think the difference is the businesses.

J

You know we're very vocal. I also, I also think about it, gillies, I think if you, if you try to.

G

Turn right down daniel straight and it's been one way for ever. Yes, I I was watching the turning from.

K

Market square down pleasant- I sit on, I said in front of in the window at cafe joe all the day.

J

And watch people try to go the wrong way down, lad street and I'm constantly yelling stop stop.

J

um I I also think you know with with um some of these businesses clippered. You know we have.

J

um Neighborhood um neighbor about our permissions, and so I know that they went into that about.

J

Our space um and that a butter is now under construction, and so I think you know there's.

J

Several things to think about, so the other side of that street is parking. So if there.

C

Was a restaurant on that side of the street they could set up in the parking spaces and that would be fine, yeah yeah. If I mean if clippers. If yes, I mean, if it's still there.

I

If clifford wanted to apply, for that I mean that is that is um you know ad. It's got to.

H

Be contiguous yeah, I don't know how you could cry yeah the clipper wanted to move into louie's face.

K

Has been empty for years, though, can I reiterate an unpopular saying that um that I latched on to.

F

Beverly mace, isn't our former playing director said. You know if people have come to rely on.

F

Space that isn't theirs for their business model, they might need a different space.

F

Black, you know there are winners and losers in the real estate world. There.

F

Are people who benefit greatly from where the restaurant is located and there are.

F

Others, for whom that is not always the case, so that sounds callous but- and I don't know.

F

That it's the city's responsibility to to play a role in that, if it's not a safe.

F

Space that didn't have the amenities. I think it's fair, I'm just trying to get a.

C

General idea of what people are downtown because I haven't walked past that all the time I have a.

B

Question of the scope of this policy: is it a city-wide policy or is it an urban core policy and.

B

I asked the question because of the questions. I've always wondered why the restaurants on islington.

B

Street, for instance, haven't requested use of the parking spaces in front of there. Their operation.

B

I mean I, I think, a lot of the besides islington street. I think a lot of the places outside of.

J

Downtown have outdoor dining have have access or are on private lots. I think you know mojo's.

J

Is a good example: they're on a private lot, um roundabout lexi's is on a private lot. They have.

J

Cafe, espresso cafe: espresso got a permit to use um in the islington street plaza they they got a.

J

900 plaza, they got a, they got, a permit, I'd say it's city-wide and I think we'd have to think.

F

Carefully about whether the policy we we create is is is beneficial citywide versus just downtown.

A

But I think a place like cafe, killam, which has very little seating inside but has two parking.

B

Spaces right out in front of it, and I just I I don't ask they'd- be cutting off their noses as.

J

Someone who lived directly above cafe kellum for a couple years. I would get that buzzer.

J

At 6 15., if my car was in the 15-minute spot, so I think he likes the spare cover.

A

No thank you now, um just one more question about the dining: what about.

D

The place on bridge street.

D

um The thousand car rule it's a thousand car rule. um So that's one of the situations. We look.

J

um I mean counselor cooking council bradley and the council as a whole looked at and we.

J

um uh Counselor cook and counselor bradley did a uh with city staff a car count. So they said if, if.

J

It was under a thousand cars, um and I also know that I believe um the owner of dwyers did a did. A.

J

um Petition essentially of the neighborhood and got full support. I think a lot of the neighbors.

J

Actually like it, because it prevents people from speeding up the streets is, that is that.

D

Two-Way flow, um one way, which one is, is that the only restaurant that benefits from that.

C

Housing car policy correct, correct that that has expressed or has experienced, outdoor dining yeah.

D

Just curious yeah, I'm supportive of that. It's a lot of questions on this. How do we settle.

G

On what it is we're going to focus on? Do we do we have this as the agenda as a shared agenda.

G

Item for the next meeting, we need a working group. We could talk about my question. How are.

K

We going to approach this. Yes, I was going to. I was basically going to say what you see here.

I

Right now is why we are asking for help, and I want to make sure we are we've been given this referral.

I

How do we help? I don't want to just talk about it. Why don't I work with city staff to kind of.

J

um Scope it, and maybe it is maybe there is different policies that we are looking at.

J

Giving recommendations on um and then I'll bring that back at the next meeting and we can decide.

J

um Then, if we want to do this as a full edc or if we want to do a working group.

J

um Does that that makes sense, I think that'd be helpful, and I again I I threw this as a.

J

Last-Minute singer, because I, if you watch the meeting it you know there was going to be, I.

J

Felt kind of no no resolve out of out of what was happening and again we were. There were a lot of.

J

Things being piled on which you know was a lot of friendly amendments, a lot of things, and so I said.

J

You know, let's, let's pause this: let's adopt the policy that we did have with some of the changes.

J

That we wanted to implement uh for this season and let's bring it to the edc to to I'll just say.

E

I think I agree with sarah for the sake of the group, let's be clear what we're being asked to.

E

Provide so that we can provide it, because we don't want to miss the mark or add to any confusion or.

E

Quite honestly, you know drop the ball that we've just been given, so the clearer we can be on on.

E

The scope and any interaction, any intersection with other policies. I think the group is up for.

E

It but but the sarah's point, let's be clear on the ask, so we can be clear on the delivery.

F

Whether it's a working group or the other group as a whole, the city resources that I'm thinking about.

F

To to provide as resources would be from legal public works and planning along with sean and me.

A

Well, if any group can do it, it's this commission so.

A

Any last call me yes, ben go ahead. um I was just going to ask that.

H

um Perhaps the next month's packet, if we could share some of the language that exist.

H

Already, policies and and ordinances that are whatever that exists for the sidewalk.

H

Encumbrances and some of the stuff that's a little further afield than.

H

Just the outdoor dining, I think that would be very helpful to have an informed discussion.

B

uh Would it be possible karen to have somebody.

B

Do a like a quick two-page summary of the history of this thing.

G

We actually have so we'll circulate that as well, a summary yeah. What I'm talking about evolution.

J

Of the evolution that we can do that, the council has fought with yeah 2012 policy and then yeah.

B

You know you know, I'm somewhat familiar with it, but there's all sorts of stuff. I admitted.

A

Because I sure three years of history yeah, that would be helpful. I'm just trying to keep us from.

B

Spending a lot of time going over past stuff, yep good idea, any other thoughts or comments on that.

H

I just want to say that I think there's already a great uh amount of data and information that.

H

The city has acquired. I don't think this is going to involve like going out and doing surveys and.

H

All that work has been done all that data exists. So all the seems, like all the tools are there to.

H

Do what needs to be done so I know um the cyrus point earlier that you know nine months is not.

H

Really nine months anymore, and it's more like three, so you know what I think the I love the.

H

Direction we're going with this great any other comments or thoughts. Well, oddly, at 8 25, the.

A

Public comment uh portion of our program, we lost our public comments, lost our public commentator.

A

I don't believe there's anybody on zoom for public. There is not okay. uh Our next meeting.

A

Is scheduled for april 7th next one? I need to confirm that the building is open, because it's.

F

Good friday, oh so we'll circulate confirmation of the date or suggestion of alternatives.

A

That's a good point. Those of you who are good friday inclined.

A

Okay, is there any other commentary, any uh other business that we'd like to put forth.

G

um Do we have a second all in favor aye all right? Thank you all for an efficient meeting.